Estimates Committee - Senate - A - Reports - Budget 1994-95

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

Senate Estimates Committees A, B, C, D, E and F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates 1994-95

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

Senate Estimates Committees A, B, C, D, E and F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates 1994-95

ISSN 0811 - 0883

This document was produced from camera-ready copy and printed by the Senate Printing Unit, Parliament House, Canberra

CONTENTS PAGE

1. Resolution of the Senate iii

2. Estimates Committees—Allocation of Portfolios iii

3. Membership of Committees iv

4. Estimates Committee A Report 1

Index to Hansard 10

Minutes of Proceedings 12 May 1994 16

24 May 1994 17

25 May 1994 32

21 June 1994 40

23 June 1994 47

30 June 1994 50

Report on supplementary meetings, June 1994 51

5. Estimates Committee B Report 57

Minute of Proceedings 24 May 1994 66

25 May 1994 71

1 June 1994 73

Index to Hansard 75

Minutes of supplementary hearing, June 1994 77

6. Estimates Committee C Report 81

Dissenting report 89

Minutes of Proceedings 12 May 1994 92

24 May 1994 93

25 May 1994 98

1 June 1994 103

21 June 1994 109

- 7. Estimates Committee D Report 119

Minutes of Proceedings 26 May 1994 127

27 May 1994 132

1 June 1994 134

Minutes of supplementary meeting, 23 June 1994 139

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8. Estimates Committee E Report 143

Minutes o f Proceedings 10 May 1994 147

26 May 1994 149

27 May 1994 152

1 June 1994 156

Minutes o f supplementary meeting, 23 June 1994 163

9. Estimates Committee F Report 169

Minutes of Proceedings 25 May 1994 177

26 May 1994 179

27 May 1994 182

1 June 1994 188

Minutes of supplementary hearing 197

ii

1. RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AGREED TO ON 12 MAY 1994

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1994-95

(1) That the particulars of proposed expenditure in relation to the Parliamentary Departments in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1995, the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 and the particulars of certain proposed

expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1995 be referred to estimates committees for examination and report.

(2) That the committees report to the Senate on or before 2 June 1994.

(3) That, subject to the sittings of the Senate, the committees meet to hear evidence in accordance with the following schedule: (a) Estimates Committees A, B and C - 24 and 25 May; (b) Estimates Committees D, E and F - 26 and 27 May; and

(c) if required, on such other days as are determined by the committees.

2. ESTIMATES COMMITTEES— ALLOCATION OF PORTFOLIOS

Estimates Committee A Communications and the Arts Foreign Affairs and Trade Prime Minister and Cabinet

Administrative Services

Estimates Committee B Defence Industrial Relations Tourism Veterans’ Affairs

Estimates Committee C Environment, Sport and Territories Human Services and Health Social Security

Estimates Committee D Finance Industry, Science and Technology Treasury

Estimates Committee E Transport Employment, Education and Training Primary Industries and Energy

Estimates Committee F Attorney-General Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Parliament

Housing and Regional Development

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3. MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES (To 10 October 1994)

Estimates Committee A

Senator Archer1 Senator Childs Senator Kemp*K**ft Senator Loosely Senator Maguire2, 3 Senator O’Cheef§ || f t Senator Jones4,5’ 6· 7 Senator Troeth8,9· 10 Senator Carr" Senator Ferguson'^’t t Senator Panizza13 Senator C Evans14 Senator Forshaw15

* Senator Kemp was discharged and Senator Panizza appointed for 20 September 1993 only. (7 September 1993) t Senator McGauran replaced Senator O’Chee for the period 30 August 1993 to 2 September 1993. (19 August 1993) J Senator Troeth to replace Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. (8 February and 12 May 1994) § Senator Brownhill to replace Senator O’Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. (8 February and 12 May 1994)

lj Senator Tierney to replace Senator O’Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts. (8 February and 12 May 1994) It Senator Alston to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Communications component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

(8 February and 12 May 1994) ** Senator Baume to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Arts component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts. (8 February and 12 May 1994) f t Senators Baume, Campbell and Minchin to replace Senators Ferguson, Kemp and O’Chee for

the consideration of the Administrative Services portfolio. (12 May 1994)

Estimates Committee B

Senator Aulich16, 17 Senator Burns Senator Carr Senator MacGibbonf Senator Teague18, 19J§ Senator Tierney20 Senator C Evans21, 221 | Senator Chapman23 Senator Crane24*25 Senator McKieman26

iv

* Senator Teague to replace Senator Crane for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Defence and the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. (8 February 1994) f Senator Minchin to replace Senator MacGibbon for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Industrial Relations and the Department of Tourism. (8 February and 12 May

1994)

t Senator Crane to replace Senator Teague for the consideration of the Industrial Relations portfolio. (12 May 1994) § Senator Ferguson to replace Senator Teague for the consideration of the Tourism portfolio. (12 May 1994)

Senator Denman to replace Senator Christopher Evans for hearings on 24 and 25 May 1994. (12 May 1994)

Estimates Committee C

Senator Giles27,28 Senator Newman}}29 Senator Patterson} Senator Tate Senator Tambling30 Senator Zakharov31,32· 33, 34

Senator Sherry35 Senator Murphy36, 37 Senator Reynolds38 Senator Denman39

Senator Ian Macdonald40*} Senator West41 Senator Herron42

* Senator Tambling to replace Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Human Services and Health. (8 February and 12 May 1994) t Senators Baume and Crichton-Browne to replace Senators Newman and Patterson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories. (8

February and 12 May 1994) } Senators Herron and Woods to replace Senators Ian Macdonald and Newman for the consideration of the estimates of the Social Security portfolio.

Estimates Committee D

Senator Bishop*43 Senator Coates || Senator Crane}44 Senator Parer§

Senator Reynolds45 Senator Walsh46,47 Senator Colston48,49, 50{ Senator Murphy51

Senator Carr52 Senator Gibson53§ Senator Loosley54,55,56 Senator McKieman57 Senator Abetz58, 59

Senator Neal60 Senator Short61

* Senator Minchin replaced Senator Bishop for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Arts and Administrative Services and the Department of Industrial Relations. (19 August 1993) t Senator Gibson replaced Senator Crane for the consideration of the estimates of the Department

of Arts and Administrative Services, the Treasury and the Department of Finance. (19 August 1993) } Senator Colston was discharged and Senator Sherry was appointed for 2 September 1993 only. (1 September 1993)

§ Senators Chapman and Ferguson to replace Senators Parer and Gibson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department o f Industry, Technology and Regional Development. (8 February 1994) 1 Senator Christopher Evans to replace Senator Coates for the period 18 March to 19 April 1994.

(17 March 1994) Senators Chapman and Ferguson to replace Senators Parer and Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Industry , Science and Technology portfolio. (12 May 1994)

Estimates Committee E

Senator Crichton-Browne62* Senator Devereux Senator Ferguson63 Senator Foreman Senator I. Macdonaldt64 Senator West65 Senator Campbell66§ ||67 Senator Teague68} §69 Senator Troeth70} || ** Senator Zakharov71 Senator Crane72** Senator McGauran73f * * * § * *

* Senator Tierney replaced Senator Crichton-Browne for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Transport and Communications. (19 August 1994) t Senator Chapman replaced Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Transport and Communications and the Department o f Industry, Technology

and Regional Development. (19 August 1993) X Senators Sandy Macdonald and Minchin to replace Senators Teague and Troeth for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services. (8 February 1994) § Senators Crane and Panizza74 to replace Senators Campbell and Teague for the consideration

of the estimates of the Department o f Primary Industries and Energy. (8 February 1994) Senators Sandy Macdonald and Tierney to replace Senators Campbell and Troeth for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Employment, Education and Training. (8 February 1994) H Senator Sandy Macdonald to replace Senator McGauran for the consideration of the estimates

of the Primary Industries and Energy portfolio. (12 May 1994) ** Senators Teague and Tierney to replace Senators Crane and Troeth for the consideration of the estimates of the Employment, Education and Training portfolio. (12 May 1994)

vi

Estimates Committee F

Senator Beahan Senator Calvert*75 Senator Cooney76** Senator Knowles* f 77

Senator McKieman Senator Short*t$§H78 Senator Colston79 Senator Ellison801| {$

Senator Vanstone811| | 82 Senator Foreman83 Senator Abetz84 Senator Knowles85t t ' §§

* Senators Baume, Ellison and Vanstone replaced Senators Calvert, Knowles and Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Parliamentary Departments. (19 August 1993) t Senators Ellison and Vanstone replaced Senators Knowles and Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Attorney-General. (19 August 1993)

% Senator Baume to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Parliamentary Departments. (8 February 1994) § Senator Calvert to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Attorney-General’s Department. (8 February 1994)

Senators Knowles and McGauran to replace Senators Ellison and Vanstone for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs. (8 February 1994) f Senators McGauran and Patterson to replace Senators Short and Vanstone for the consideration

o f the estimates of the Department of Social Security. (8 February 1994) ** Senator Zakharov to replace Senator Cooney for the period 17 March to 3 May 1994. (17 March 1994) f t Senator Vanstone to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration of the estimates of the

Attorney-General’s portfolio. (12 May 1994) Senator Short to replace Senator Ellison for the consideration of the estimates for the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio. (12 May 1994) §§ Senator Tambling to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration of the estimates for the

Housing and Regional Development portfolio.

vii

4. MEMBERSHIP OF LEGISLATION COMMITTEES (On and from 10 October 1994)

Community Affairs Legislation Committee

Senator Denman Senator Herron Senator Lees Senator Neal* Senator Patterson Senator West

Participating members Senators Harradine, Knowles86, Troeth87, Woods88, Chamarette89, Margetts90, Boswell91, Abetz92, Baume93, Brownhill94, O’Chee95 and Tambling96.

* Senator Murphy to substitute for Senator Neal for 2 December 1994 from 8 a.m. to 11.45 a.m. and Senator McKieman to substitute for Senator Neal for 2 December 1994 from 11.45 a.m. for the remainder of the day. (28 November 1994)

Economics Legislation Committee

Senator Childs Senator Christopher Evans Senator Gibson* Senator Murphy Senator Spindler Senator Watsonf

Participating members Senators Bums, Harradine, Crane97, Panizza98, Chamarette99, Margetts100, McGauran101, Kemp102, Boswell103, Vanstone104, Abetz105, Baume106, B row nhill107, Chapman108, Ferguson109, H ill" 0, Ian M acdonald"1, O’Chee112, Parer113, Short114 and Tambling115.

* Senator Chapman to replace Senator Gibson on 29 November 1994. (7 November 1994) t Senator Ferguson to substitute for Senator Watson for the committee’s consideration of the Department of Industry, Science and Technology.

Employment, Education and Training Legislation Committee

Senator Bell Senator Carr* Senator Forshawf Senator Tierney Senator Troeth Senator Zakharov

Participating members Senators Harradine, Crane116, Chamarette117, Margetts118, Kemp119, Ian Mcdonald120, Boswell121, Abetz122, Baume123, Brownhill124, Campbell125,

viii

Hill126 O’Chee127 and Tambling128.

* Senator Christopher Evans to substitute for Senator Carr for 2 December 1994.(28 November 1994) t Senator Devereux to substitute for Senator Forshaw for 2 December 1994. (28 November 1994)

Environment, Recreation, Communications and the Arts Legislation Committee

Senator Baume Senator Coulter Senator Devereux Senator Ferguson

Senator Loosley Senator Reynolds

Participating members Senators Harradine, Abetz129, Tierney130, Chamarette131, Margetts132, Chapman133, Alston134, Boswell135, Brownhill136, Calvert137, Campbell138, Crichton-Browne139, Kemp140, Ian Macdonald141, O’Chee142, Panizza143,

Parer144 and Tambling145.

Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee

Senator Bell Senator Coates Senator Foreman Senator McGauran

Senator Minchin Senator Neal*

Participating members Senators Harradine, Kemp146, Chamarette147, Margetts148, Boswell149 and G ib so n 150, A b e tz 151, B au m e152, B ro w n h ill153, C a m p b e ll154, lan Macdonald155, MacGibbon156, Newman157, O’Chee158, Panizza159, Short16" and Tambling161.

* Senator Murphy to substitute for Senator Neal for 2 December 1994 from 8 a.m. to 11.45 a.m. and Senator McKieman to substitute for Senator Neal for 2 December 1994 from 11.45 a.m. for the remainder of the day. (28 November 1994)

Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee

Senator Bourne Senator Carr* Senator Jones Senator MacGibbon

Senator Teague Senator West

Participating members Senators Bums, Harradine, Kemp162, Troeth163, Woods164, Chamarette165, Margetts166, Boswell167, Abetz168, Baume169, Brownhill170, Ellison171,

ix

Sandy Macdonald172, Newman173, O’Chee174 and Tambling175.

Senator Christopher Evans to substitute for Senator Carr from 28 November to 2 December 1994. (28 November 1994)

Legal and Constitutional Legislation Committee

Senator Abetz176 Senator Cooney Senator Christopher Evans Senator McKiernan* Senator O’Chee Senator Spindler Senator Ellison177

Participating members Senators Harradine, Short178, Vanstone179, Chamarette180, Margetts181, Boswell182, Abetz183, Baume184, Brownhill185, Kemp186 and Tambling187.

* Senator Forshaw to replace Senator McKiernan on 17 November 1994. (7 November 1995)

Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee

Senator Brownhill Senator Burns Senator Calvert Senator Forshaw*f Senator Murphy Senator Woodley

Participating members Senators Harradine, West, Crane188, Panizza189, Parer190, Chamarette191, Margetts192, Panizza193 and Kemp194, Abetz195, Baume196, Boswell197, Chapman198, Ferguson199, Ian Macdonald200, Sandy M acdonald201, M acG ibbon202, N ew m an203, O ’Chee204, Parer205, T am bling206 and Tierney207.

* Senator McKiernan to replace Senator Forshaw on 15 November 1994. (7 November 1994) f Senator Denman to substitute for Senator Forshaw from 28 November to 2 December 1994.

1. Discharged 19 August 1993.

2. Discharged 27 May 1993. 3. Retired 30 June 1993. 4. Appointed 27 May 1993.

5. Discharged 21 October 1993, for period 1 November to 6 December 1993. 6. Discharged for hearings on 25 February 1994 only.

x

7. Discharged 12 May 1994.

8. Appointed 19 August 1993.

9. Discharged 8 February 1994.

10. Discharged 9 February 1994.

11. Appointed 21 October 1993, for the period 1 November to 6 December 1993.

12. Appointed 8 February 1994.

13. Appointed 9 February 1994.

14. Appointed for hearings on 25 February 1994 only.

15. Appointed 12 May 1994.

16. Discharged 27 May 1993.

17. Retired 30 June 1993.

18. Discharged 8 February 1994.

19. Appointed 12 May 1994. 20. Discharged 8 February 1994. 21. Appointed 27 May 1993 22. Discharged for hearings on 18 March 1994 only.

23. Appointed 8 February 1994.

24. Appointed 8 February 1994.

25. Discharged 12 May 1994. 26. Appointed for hearings on 18 March 1994 only.

27. Discharged 27 May 1993.

28. Retired 30 June 1993.

29. Discharged 9 June 1994. 30. Discharged 8 February 1994.

31. Discharged 10 May 1993.

32. Discharged 30 August 1993.

33. Appointed 27 September 1993.

34. Discharged 10 February 1994.

35. Appointed 10 May 1993.

36. Appointed 27 May 1993.

37. Discharged 27 September 1993.

38. Appointed 19 August 1993.

39. Appointed 30 August 1993.

40. Appointed 8 February 1994.

41. Appointed 10 February 1994.

42. Appointed 9 June 1994.

43. Resigned 24 February 1994.

44. Discharged 8 February 1994.

45. Discharged 19 August 1993.

46. Discharged 27 May 1993.

47. Retired 30 June 1993.

48. Appointed 27 May 1993.

49. Discharged 21 October 1993, for the period 7 November to 14 November 1993.

50. Discharged 8 February 1994.

xi

51. Appointed 19 August 1993.

52. Appointed 21 October 1993, for the period 7 November to 14 November 1993.

53. Appointed 8 February 1994. 54. Appointed 8 February 1994.

55. Discharged for hearings on 24 February 1994 only.

56. Discharged 17 March 1994.

57. Appointed for hearings on 23 February 1994 only.

58. Appointed 28 February 1994.

59. Discharged 12 May 1994. 60. Appointed 17 March 1994.

61. Appointed 12 May 1994.

62. Discharged 8 February 1994.

63. Discharged 8 February 1994. 64. Discharged 8 February 1994.

65. Discharged 10 February 1994.

66. Appointed 8 February 1994.

67. Discharged 12 May 1994.

68. Appointed 8 February 1994.

69. Discharged 12 May 1994.

70. Appointed 8 February 1994.

71. Appointed 10 February 1994.

72. Appointed 12 May 1994.

73. Appointed 12 May 1994. 74. Discharged 9 February 1994 and replaced by Senator Sandy Macdonald.

75. Discharged 8 February 1994.

76. Discharged for hearings on 24 February 1994 only.

77. Discharged 8 February 1994. 78. Discharged 12 May 1994.

79. Appointed 8 February 1994.

80. Appointed 8 February 1994.

81. Appointed 8 February 1994. 82. Discharged 12 May 1994.

83. Appointed for hearings on 24 February 1994 only. 84. Appointed 12 May 1994.

85. Appointed 12 May 1994. 86. Appointed 11 October 1994.

87. Appointed 11 October 1994.

88. Appointed 11 October 1994.

89. Appointed 18 October 1994. 90. Appointed 18 October 1994. 91. Appointed 8 November 1994. 92. Appointed 17 October 1994. 93. Appointed 17 October 1994. 94. Appointed 17 October 1994. 95. Appointed 17 October 1994.

xii

96. Appointed 17 October 1994. 97. Appointed 11 October 1994. 98. Appointed 11 October 1994. 99. Appointed 18 October 1994.

100. Appointed 18 October 1994. 101. Appointed 7 November 1994. 102. Appointed 15 November 1994. 103. Appointed 8 November 1994.

104. Appointed 8 November 1994. 105. Appointed 17 October 1994. 106. Appointed 17 October 1994. 107. Appointed 17 October 1994. 108. Appointed 17 October 1994. 109. Appointed 17 October 1994. 110. Appointed 17 October 1994.

111. Appointed 17 October 1994. 112. Appointed 17 October 1994. 113. Appointed 17 October 1994. 114. Appointed 17 October 1994.

115. Appointed 17 October 1994. 116. Appointed 11 October 1994. 117. Appointed 18 October 1994.

118. Appointed 18 October 1994. 119. Appointed 15 November 1994. 120. Appointed 15 November 1994. 121. Appointed 8 November 1994. 122. Appointed 17 October 1994. 123. Appointed 17 October 1994.

124. Appointed 17 October 1994. 125. Appointed 17 October 1994. 126. Appointed 17 October 1994. 127. Appointed 17 October 1994. 128. Appointed 17 October 1994. 129. Appointed 11 October 1994.

130. Appointed 11 October 1994. 131. Appointed 18 October 1994. 132. Appointed 18 October 1994. 133. Appointed 15 November 1995. 134. Appointed 17 October 1994. 135. Appointed 17 October 1994. 136. Appointed 17 October 1994. 137. Appointed 17 October 1994. 138. Appointed 17 October 1994. 139. Appointed 17 October 1994. 140. Appointed 17 October 1994. 141. Appointed 17 October 1994. 142. Appointed 17 October 1994.

143. Appointed 17 October 1994. 144. Appointed 17 October 1994. 145. Appointed 17 October 1994. 146. Appointed 11 October 1994.

147. Appointed 18 October 1994. 148. Appointed 18 October 1994. 149. Appointed 8 November 1994. 150. Appointed 8 November 1994.

151. Appointed 17 October 1994.

152. Appointed 17 October 1994. 153. Appointed 17 October 1994. 154. Appointed 17 October 1994. 155. Appointed 17 October 1994. 156. Appointed 17 October 1994. 157. Appointed 17 October 1994. 158. Appointed 17 October 1994.

159. Appointed 17 October 1994. 160. Appointed 17 October 1994. 161. Appointed 17 October 1994. 162. Appointed 11 October 1994. 163. Appointed 11 October 1994. 164. Appointed 11 October 1994. 165. Appointed 18 October 1994. 166. Appointed 18 October 1994. 167. Appointed 8 November 1995 163. Appointed 17 October 1994. 169. Appointed 17 October 1994. 170. Appointed 17 October 1994. 171. Appointed 17 October 1994. 172. Appointed 17 October 1994. 173. Appointed 17 October 1994. 174. Appointed 17 October 1994. 175. Appointed 17 October 1994. 176. Discharged 17 October 1994. 177. Appointed 17 October 1994. 178. Appointed 11 October 1994. 179. Appointed 11 October 1994. 180. Appointed 18 October 1994. 181. Appointed 18 October 1994. 182. Appointed 18 October 1994. 183. Appointed 17 October 1994. 184. Appointed 17 October 1994. 185. Appointed 17 October 1994. 186. Appointed 17 October 1994. 187. Appointed 17 October 1994. 188. Appointed 11 October 1994. 189. Appointed 11 October 1994. 190. Appointed 11 October 1994. 191. Appointed 18 October 1994. 192. Appointed 18 October 1994. 193. Appointed 7 November 1994. 194. Appointed 15 November 1994 195. Appointed 17 October 1994. 196. Appointed 17 October 1994. 197. Appointed 17 October 1994. 198. Appointed 17 October 1994. 199. Appointed 17 October 1994. 200. Appointed 17 October 1994. 201. Appointed 17 October 1994. 202. Appointed 17 October 1994. 203. Appointed 17 October 1994. 204. Appointed 17 October 1994. 205. Appointed 17 October 1994. 206. Appointed 17 October 1994. 207. Appointed 17 October 1994.

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

Estimates Committee A

Report to the Senate

JUNE 1994

MEMBERS OF TH E COMMITTEE

CHAIR: Senator B.K. Childs (New South Wales)

MEMBERS: Senator A.B. Ferguson (South Australia)

Senator M.G. Forshaw (New South Wales) Senator R. Kemp (Victoria) Senator S. Loosley (New South Wales) Senator W.G. O'Chee (Queensland)

Senator J.M. Troeth replaced Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

Senator J.M Troeth replaced Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator D. Brownhill replaced Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator J.W Tierney to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Alston to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Communications component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Baume to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Arts component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Baume to replace Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Senator Campbell to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Senator Minchin to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Secretary: Peter Hallahan

Research Staff: Merrilyn Pyle Veronica Strkalj

TABLE OF CONTENTS

SUBJECT PAGE

Members of the Committee (iii)

R eport to the Senate 1

Appendix : Index to Hansard of Proceedings 7

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE A

REPORT TO TH E SENATE

Estimates Committee A presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 12 May 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee, for

examination and report, the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995, and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure for the service of the year ending 30 June 1995, in respect of the following ministerial portfolios:

. Prime Minister and Cabinet (including the Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General)

. Foreign Affairs and Trade

. Communications and the Arts

. Administrative Services

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates for the year ending 30 June 1995, together with Portfolio Budget Measures Statements and has received evidence from the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon. G areth Evans and the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, Senator the Hon. Bob Collins and officers of the departments concerned. Copies of the Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1994-1995 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1994-95. Minutes of Proceedings and further written explanations furnished by departments will be presented separately.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters which arose during consideration of the Estimates.

4

GENERAL

Structure and content of Portfolio Budget Measure Statements

4. In recent years the Committee has been pleased with the general improvement in the presentation of documentation, however, the Committee expressed dissatisfaction arising from difficulties which they encountered in interpreting the portfolio budget measures statements supplied by departments at this round of hearings. Information relating to single programs was spread over several separated pages. Formation of an overall picture of the financing of a particular program therefore became an inordinantly complex task as there was no single table in which the entries for individual programs were drawn together.

5. This problem was evident over all program areas. An excellent example of the nature of the problem may be found in the Committee's transcript o f Evidence concerning Comcar at pages 162-4. While the exchanges between officers and the Committee are too long to publish in this report, they clearly show that it was virtually impossible for Committee members to gain a comprehensive financial picture without considerable assistance from the officers in attendance.

6. The Committee considers that the system is unsatisfactory and the structure and content of these documents should be urgently reviewed by the D epartm ent of Finance and changes made before the O ctober round of

hearings.

Scheduling o f Estimates Committee hearings

7. A recurring problem in the conduct of Estimates Committee hearings has been the difficulties which have been encountered in setting timetables sufficiently accurately to avoid keeping senior public servants waiting for long periods of time. During the most recent round, officers from the Communications portfolio, including several from interstate agencies, were kept waiting for most of the day, the departm ent not being called until late in the afternoon. A number of officers missed planes out of Canberra as a result.

8. The Committee is mindful of the difficulties created and regrets any undue inconvenience or hardship caused to individual officers. It has previously sought to minimise inconvenience wherever possible and had attempted to do so on this occasion. However, the essentially unpredictable

nature of Estimates hearings as well as difficulties associated with reconciling the itineraries of Ministers, up to 13 Committee members as well as officers within a very limited timeframe renders scheduling to the satisfaction of all concerned very difficult.

9. The Committee agrees that improved arrangements, particularly the setting of a more rigorous timetable, should be put into place before the next round of hearings. If this goal is to be met, a more co-operative approach on the part of all concerned will be required. Ministers must recognise that sufficient time needs to be made available to consider the estimates within a realistic timeframe. Equally, Senators must be willing to set aside their time for Committee activities in a flexible manner. Finally, the difficulties associated with attempting to impose a set schedule on an essentially unpredictable process must be acknowledged and due allowance made by all involved.

DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General

10. Committee members sought information about the impact of the efficiency dividend on the official activities of the Governor-General. The Official Secretary, Mr Sturkey, stated that there has been a gradual attrition of the money available within which the Governor-General has to work. Consequently his program has been cut back every year.

11. Senator Kemp expressed the view that Mr Hayden is a very popular Governor-General and has been able to develop a bipartisan support for his office. Senator Kemp expressed concern about the possible diminution of the Governor-General's role and activities as a result in the cuts of expenditure imposed.

Aboriginal Land Fund - accounting arrangements

12. Senator O'Chee expressed concern about the accounting arrangements associated with the recently established Aboriginal Land Fund. Representatives of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet assured the Committee that they had been advised by the Department of Finance that this fund was being treated the same way as other Commonwealth Trust accounts in the trust account.

6

Treaty ratification

13. Senator Kemp sought information about the processes of signing and ratification of international treaties and the extent of consultation with the states regarding treaties which may have a direct effect on their powers and responsibilities.

14. The Minister, Senator Evans, informed the Committee that ratification was a m atter of relevant ministerial approval followed by executive council determination. On occasions where a m atter of significance is involved, a formal cabinet decision may be required, but generally the matter is dealt with at Ministerial level.1

15. The Minister also stated that the States are kept up-to-date on all treaty negotiations through a standing committee which meets every six months.

DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Casselden Place

16. Senator Ian Campbell continued to seek information concerning the leasing of the Casselden Place building in Melbourne. He expressed concern about the reluctance of the Government to make information about the rental agreement at this property publicly available. This information was not supplied on the grounds of commercial confidentiality.

17. The Government has offered to make some information relating to the building available to Senator Campbell on a confidential basis. Acceptance of this offer, according to Senator Campbell, will severely compromise him and limit his ability to pursue any matters further in the public domain.

18. The Minister, Senator Evans, agreed that there are difficult questions of balance at stake in this issue. The Committee notes that representatives of the D epartm ent have agreed to supply the Committee with a document which describes the decision making process in relation to Casselden Place,

excluding financial information.

* Evidence. pA12, A 13.

19. The Committee considers that a method of resolving this issue which preserves both the requirements for both independent, apolitical scrutiny of the activity of government business enterprises and confidentiality in a competitive marketplace should be developed as soon as possible.

Das fleet - Transport Workers Union sales tax liability

20. The Committee received information from Dasfleet concerning a recovery action it has initiated against the Transport Workers' Union over the non-payment of approximately $250,000 of sales tax. Dasfleet representatives stated that they had acted in good faith on the advice supplied by the TWU concerning the TWU's sales tax exemption, which subsequently proved erroneous.

21. Dasfleet representatives informed the Committee that the TWU is currently disputing its sales tax exemption with the Australian Tax Office. Dasfleet, as owners of the assets leased, was liable for the payment and has paid the amount. Dasfleet informed the Committee that it is taking recovery action to retrieve this amount from the TWU.

22. The Committee considers that Dasfleet's experience should be closely heeded by all agencies entering into commercial arrangements involving claimed tax exemptions.

Australian Electoral Commission

23. Senator Tambling sought information from officers of the Australian electoral Commission about the conduct of the recent ATSIC elections and was critical of a number of shortcomings which were evident, resulting in the possible need to reconduct elections in a small number of wards.

24. Senator Macdonald also sought information from the Commission about multiple voting, expressing concern about the possible impact this could have in electorates where the result was very close.

25. Officers explained the checks that are made to detect persons who attempt to indulge in this practice and stated that the studies that they had conducted indicated that the incidence was very low in those electorates studied. In the case of the very close results in some electorates during the

recent federal election officers assured the Committee that the level of double voting detected would not have been sufficient to affect the result in any electorate.

8

Australia Council grants

26. Senator Ferguson sought information about grants made to members of the Australia Council's music committee. He expressed concern that such a large proportion of the Committee's members had been reported as receiving grants in one year.

27. Council representatives informed the Committee that safeguards were in place to avoid conflicts of interest in awarding grants. They undertook to supply the Committee with information about the number of committee members who received grants while serving on the music Committee and to initiate a further review of the process by the Performing Arts Board.

Senator B.K. Childs Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A - HANSARD INDEX

Tuesday, 24 May 1994

Agency Hansard

Page

P rogram N um ber P rogram Title

Office of the Official S ecretary to the Governor-G eneral

A3-A4 5.1 M anagem ent Executive

A4-A5 5.2 O peration and M anagem ent of

Establishm ents

A5-A6 5.3 A ustralian Honours and

Awards

D epartm ent of the Prim e M inister and Cabinet

A7-A11 1.1 Economic Policy

A11-A18 1.2 Industries, Resources and

Environm ent Policy

A18-A19 1.3 Social Policy

A19-A20 1.4 International Policy

A20-A20 A26-A27 2.1 M achinery of Government

A20-A22 2.2 Support Services

A22-A26 3.2 S tatus of Women

A27-A28 7.2 Office of the Commonwealth

Ombudsman

A28-A28 7.4 Office of the Inspector-General

of Intelligence and Security

D epartm ent of A28-A42 G eneral

Foreign Affairs and Trade

A42-A43 1.1 Interests in N orth Asia

A43-A50 1.2 Interests in South and South­

E ast Asia

A51-A51 1.2.1 Interests in South Asia and

Indo-China

1 0

A51-A52 1.2.2 Interests in South E ast Asia

A52-A52 1.3.1 Interests in Americas

A52-A52 1.3.2 Interests in W est Europe

A50-A51 1.4 Interests in South Pacific,

Africa and Middle E ast

A52-A53 1.4.2 Interests in New Zealand and

Papua New Guinea

A53-A54 1.4.3 Interests in Middle E ast and

Africa

A54-A54 1.5.1 M ultilateral Trade

O rganisation

A54-58 1.6.4 Economic Organisations

A58-68 1.7.1 International Organisations

A68-73 1.7.2 Environm ent and Antarctic

A73-A73 1.8.1 International Agreements,

Resource Law and Law Advising

A73-A74 1.8.3 Refugee, Asylum and

M igration Issues

A74-A74 1.9.3 Historical Documents on

Foreign Affairs

A74-A75 2.2 C onsular Services

A75-A76 3.3 Services to A ustralian

G overnm ent Agencies Overseas

A76-A76 5.1 Executive Direction

A77-A80 5.2 DFAT Corporate Services

A ustralian International

A80-A86 6.1 C ountry Program s

Development A ssistance Bureau

A86-A103 6.2 Global Program s

D epartm ent of A103- 8 A ustralian Secret Intelligence

Foreign Affairs and A104 Service

T rade

f ' '

1 1

A ustrade A104- 7 Austrade - both subprogram s

A121 ie International Business

Section and Finance S upport

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A - HANSARD INDEX

Wednesday 25 May, 1994

Agency H ansard Program Program Title

Page N um ber

D epartm ent of Adm inistrative

A123-A126 General

Services

A133-A137 1 Business Services

A126-A126 A137-A148 1.1 Asset Services

A126-A128 1.2 A ustralian Construction

A148-A153 Services

A128-A130 1.4 Australian Governm ent

Publishing Service

A130-A131 1.5 Australian P roperty Group

A131-A131 1.9 DAS Fleet

A153-A159 1.12 Business Support

A131-A133 2.1 Ministerial and P arliam entary

Services

A159-A161 2.3 Australian E state

Management

A161-A176 2.5 Comcar

A176-A177 4 Corporate M anagem ent

A177-A182 6 Australian Electoral

Commission

D epartm ent of A182-A184 General

Communications and the Arts

1 2

A boriginal and T o rres S tra it Islander C om m ission

A184-A204 2.3 T elstra Corporation Limited

A204-A206 1.3 Special B roadcasting Service

A206-A219 1.2 A ustralian Broadcasting

Corporation

A219-A221 2.4 A ustralian Postal C orporation

A221-A224 1.4 A ustralian Broadcasting

Authority

A224-A225 2.5 A ustralian

Telecommunications Authority

A225-A239 3.3 The Australia Council

A239-A244 1.5 National Transm ission

Agency

A244-A244 2.1 Telecommunications Policy

A244-A245 2.2 Spectrum M anagem ent

Agency

A245-A248 3.1 A ustralian C ultural

Development Office

A248-248 3.4 A ustralian Film Commission

A248-A249 3.8 National Film and Sound

Archive

A249-A252 3.9 National Libraiy of Australia

A252-A253 3.11 National Science and

Technology Centre

A253-A254 G eneral

A254-A257 8A 1.2 Land Acquisition and Maintenance

A257-261 8A 3 Employment

A261-A261 8A 4 Commercial Development Corporation

A261-A264 8B 1 Land, Heritage and

Environm ent

A264-A270 8B 2 H ealth and Com munity

Development

1 3

A270-A271

A271-A272

A272-A277

8B 4 C om m m unity Services

8B 5 Aboriginal Hostels Limited

8C 3 Evaluation and Audit

1 4

Estimates Committee A

Minutes of Meetings

12, 24 & 25 May 1994 21, 23 & 30 June 1994

15

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 24

THURSDAY, 12 MAY 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.50 pm in the Senate Opposition Lobby.

2. HEARING TIMES: The Committee agreed that the Budget round of estimates hearings would commence at 9.00am and finish by 10.30 pm on the days of 24 and 25 May.

3. ORDER OF PROGRAMS: The Committee agreed to the order of programs provided previously, with the one amendment that the Office of the Status of Women be heard on Wednesday, 25 May 1994, prior to the Department of Administrative Services.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.58pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Loosley, Kemp, Troeth, Brownhill, Ferguson and Campbell.

CONFIRMED:

SENATOR S LOOSLEY A/g CHAIR.

„1G

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 25 Tuesday 24 May 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 9.07am in the Main Committee Room Anteroom. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. PROGRAM:

The Com mittee considered changes to the program of hearings for Wednesday 25 May which had been requested by the Office of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator the Hon. G areth Evans , the terms of which had been circulated previously.

It was agreed that the O rder of Business for 25 May 1994 would be as follows:

. D epartm ent of Administrative Services . D epartm ent of Communications and the Arts . ATSIC (not before 6.00pm)

3. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 9.08am.

4. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairm an), Senators Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley and Troeth.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 26 Tuesday, 24 May 1994

MEETING

The Committee met at 9.09 am in the Main Committee Room. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN

The Chairman reported the resolution of the Senate of 12 May 1994 referring matters to Estimates Committees and made an opening statement.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL (PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET PORTFOLIO)

The Committee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Office of the Governor-General.

The following officers gave evidence:

Office of the Governor-General

Mr D. Sturkey, Official Secretary Ms J. Hall, Deputy Official Secretary Wing Commander A. Blyth, Military Secretary and Comptroller to the Governor-General Mr B. Edwards, Director, Honours Secretariat Mr C. Bell, Director, Corporate Services Mr A. Don, Budgets and Finance Officer

Department of Finance— Mr Neville Jackson, Finance Officer Ms Anthea Hastie, Finance Officer

CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on programs 1 to 4 of the proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET PORTFOLIO

The Com mittee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Prime M inister and Cabinet portfolio.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. G areth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, representing the Prime Minister, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Prime Minister and Cabinet

M r R. Beale, Associate Secretary M r B. Blick, First Assistant Secretary, Government Division M r M. Thawley, First Assistant Secretary, International Division M r N. Vo-Van., Assistant Secretary, Office of Multicultural Affairs

M r M. Dillon, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Indigenous Affairs Mr M. Cunliffe, Native Title Implem entation Taskforce Ms K. Edwards, Assistant Secretary, Social Policy Division Ms P. Kelly, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Office of Status of Women Ms K. Harrison, Senior Adviser, Office of Status of Women

Mr A. Henderson, First Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth State Relations Secretariat M r A. Stretton, First Assistant Secretary, Task Force on Employment Opportunities Ms A. Tinney, First Assistant Secretary, Cabinet Division

M r A. Noon, Assistant Secretary, Economic Division M r P. Thomas, Assistant Secretary, Industries, Resources and Energy Ms C. Astley-Boden, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Chief Scientist Mr P. Vaughan, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division

Mr T. Leach, Acting Assistant Secretary, Corporate Support Branch M r G. Linehan, Director, Financial M anagement Section Mrs C. Masters, Assistant Director, Financial Management Section

Economic Planning and Advisory Committee Mr I. Gibbs, Acting Director Mr E. Zinchenko, Administrative Officer

Merit Protection and Review Agency Ms A. Forward, Director M r A. Doolan, Associate Director Ms S. Malyszko, C orporate Services M anager

Office of National Assessments M r K. Heydon, Deputy Director-General, Economic/Management Division Mr D. Triffett, H ead, Corporate Services Mr G. Baseden, Senior Executive Officer

19

Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Mr P. Moss, Assistant Inspector-General

Office of the Ombudsman Mr J. Taylor, Acting Senior Assistant Ombudsman Mr B. Hugg, Executive Officer

Public Service Commission Mr P. Kennedy, Deputy Public Service Commissioner Mr E. Attridge, First Assistant Commissioner Ms M. Cane, First Assistant Commissioner Ms J. Colwill, Assistant Commissioner Mr D. Gunzburg, Assistant Commissioner Mr P. Thomas, Assistant Commissioner Mr M. Kilner, Assistant Commissioner Mr R. Harding, Assistant Commissioner Mr J. Quinn, Director Ms M. Stawyskyj, Director Ms R. Martindale, Director

Department of Finance— Mr N. Jackson, Finance Officer Ms A. Hastie, Finance Officer

6. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on general questions followed by subprograms 1.1 - 1.5, 2.1, 2.2, 3.1 - 3.4, 4.1 - 4.3, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1 - 7.4. Subprogram 6.3 was considered concurrently with subprogram 1.2.

The following documents were tabled:

. Treaty guidelines . Answers to questions placed on notice by Senator Kemp

The Committee concluded its examination of the estimates for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE PORTFOLIO

The Committee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure of the Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

2 0

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Consular and Passports Division Mr M. Hughes, First Assistant Secretary Mr D. Rutter

Dr S. Thomson Mr G. Thompson Mr G. Middleweek Mr K. Oakman

International Organisations and Legal Mr W. Fisher, First Assistant Secretary Ms R. McGovern Mr C. Mott

Ms V. Owen Mr R. Rich, Legal Adviser Mr P. Lawrence Mr S. McIntosh

Mr P. Woolcott Mr D. Stuart Mr A. Todd Mr K. Boreham

North Asia Division Mr M. McLean, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Benson

Americas and Europe Division Mr I. Forsyth, Assistant Secretary, West Europe Branch Mr P. Seymour

International Security Division Mr I. Cousins, First Assistant Secretary Mr P. Lloyd

Executive Secretariat Mr G. Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Executive Secretariat

Public Affairs Division Mr D. Ambrose, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr C. Stewart Mr J. Meszes Ms L. Brazel

21

Economic and Trade Development Mr H. Bamsey, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. Hillman Mr M. Jordana Ms L. Hand Mr R. Frankel Mr B. Davis

South Pacific, Africa and Middle East Division Mr R. Laurie, First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Thwaites Mr G. McGuire Mr P. Hooton Mr R. Puddicombe

Mr G. Matthews Mr S. Etheridge Mr J. Hines

Trade Negotiations and Organisations Division Mr P. Grey, First Assistant Secretary Mr G. Thomson Mr K. Wilkinson Mr R. Wells Mr M. Churche Mr E. Williams Mr J. Hannoush

South and South East Asia Division Mr M. Kupa, First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Oliver Mr P. Bui Mr J. Langtry Mr D. Pearce

Corporate Services Division Mr B. Cotton, First Assistant Secretary Mr G. Wilson

Corporate Evaluation Branch Mr T. Vincent, Assistant Secretary Mr P. Comfort Mr B. Babington Mr K. Durr and

Information Technology Branch Mr T. Skinner, Assistant Secretary

Resources Branch Mr G. Swift Mr M. Skelly Mr D. Peirce Mr J. Rigg Mr J. Sullivan Mr D. Poulter

Ms S. Vegting Ms L. Holgate Mr D. Brill

Personnel Branch Mr D. O'Leary, Assistant Secretary Mr M. Neuhaus

Mr B. Hunt

Services Branch Ms T. Shand, Assistant Secretary Mr R. Down Mr J. Montfries

Mr J. Lander

Workplace Bargaining Unit Mr R. Chidgey

Australian International Development Assistance Bureau (AIDAB) Mr P. Flood, Director General Mr T. Terrell, Deputy Director General, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division

Mr T. Kanaley, Deputy Director General, Corporate Development and Support Division Mr B. Davis, Deputy Director General, Pacific and International Programs Division Mr B. Stensholt, Assistant Director General, South East Asia Branch, Asia, Africa

and Community Programs Division Mr J. Russell, Assistant Director General, Community, Commercial and Refugee Programs Branch, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division Mr A. MacDonald, Acting Assistant Director General, Asia, Africa and Food

Branch, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division Dr Helen Ware, Assistant Director General, Sectoral Policy and Review Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division Ms Deborah Stokes, Assistant Director General, Development Issues and

Corporate Policy Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division Mr R. Casson, Assistant Director General, Financial and Resource Management Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division Mr M. Proctor, Assistant Director General, Papua New Guinea Branch, Pacific

and International Programs Division Mr M. Commins, Assistant Director General, South Pacific and Training Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division

Ms D. Casey, Assistant Director General, International Organisations and Public Affairs Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division Mr L. Dunn, Director Corporate Planning, Budget and Effectiveness Review Section, Development Issues and Corporate Policy Branch, Corporate

Development and Support Division Ms W. Messer, Director Finance Section, Financial and Resource Management Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division Mr R. Mann, Director Development Banks Section, International Organisations

and Public Affairs Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division

Australian Trade Commission (AUSTRADE) Mr P. Langhome, Executive General Manager, Corporate Affairs Mr B. Pollock, Acting General Manager, Corporate Finance and Property Mr D. Shires, Manager, Government and Economic Affairs Mr D. Oliver, Manager, Export Marketing Finance Mr J. Tinney, General Manager, South Pacific

— Regional Support Office Mr P. Downie, Japan/Korea Mr D. Walsh, South East Asia Ms P. Quang, East Asia Mr T. Hunt, Americas Mr J. Cahill, Europe Mr T. Williams, South Pacific Mr D. Wilson, Special Markets Mr C. Plumley, EMDG Mr J. Talevich, Budgets Mr C. Lang, Funding, Budgets and Investments

Department of Finance— Mr H. Baulch, Finance Officer

8. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on general questions followed by subprograms 1.1 and 1.2. Consideration of the Estimates for the Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio was suspended in order to conduct a private meeting.

2 4

9. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 1.03 pm.

10. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee and Troeth. Senators Calvert and Harradine also attended.

CONFIRMED:

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

2 5

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 28 Tuesday, 24 M ay 1994

MEETING

The Committee met at 2.03 pm in the Main Committee Room. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE PORTFOLIO

The Committee resumed its examination o f the proposed expenditure o f the Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Foreign Affairs and Trade

Consular and Passports Division M r M. Hughes, First Assistant Secretary M r D. Rutter Dr S. Thomson M r G. Thompson M r G. Middleweek M r K. Oakman

International Organisations and Legal M r W. Fisher, First Assistant Secretary Ms R. McGovern M r C. Mott M s V. Owen M r R. Rich, Legal Adviser M r P. Lawrence M r S. McIntosh M r P. W oolcott M r D. Stuart M r A. Todd M r K. Boreham

North Asia Division M r M. McLean, Acting First Assistant Secretary M r J. Benson

Americas and Europe Division M r I. Forsyth, A ssistant Secretary, W est Europe Branch M r P. Seym our

International Security Division M r I. Cousins, First Assistant Secretary M r P. Lloyd

Executive Secretariat M r G. Conroy, A ssistant Secretary, Executive Secretariat

Public Affairs Division M r D. Am brose, Acting First A ssistant Secretary M r C. Stewart

M r J. M eszes M s L. Brazel

Economic and Trade Development M r H. Bamsey, First Assistant Secretary M r R. Hillman M r M. Jordana

Ms L. Hand M r R. Frankel M r B. Davis

South Pacific, Africa and Middle East Division M r R. Laurie, First A ssistant Secretary M r J. Thwaites

M r G. M cGuire M r P. Hooton M r R. Puddicom be M r G. Matthews

M r S. Etheridge M r J. Hines

Trade Negotiations and Organisations Division M r P. Grey, First A ssistant Secretary M r G. Thomson M r K. W ilkinson M r R. W ells

M r M. Churche M r E. W illiams M r J. Hannoush

2 7

South and South East Asia Division M r M. Kupa, First Assistant Secretary M r J. Oliver M r P. Bui M r J. Langtry M r D. Pearce

Corporate Services Division M r B. Cotton, First Assistant Secretary M r G. W ilson

Corporate Evaluation Branch M r T. Vincent, Assistant Secretary M r P. Comfort M r B. Babington M r K. Durrand

Information Technology Branch M r T. Skinner, Assistant Secretary

Resources Branch M r G. Swift M r M. Skelly M r D. Peirce M r J. Rigg M r J. Sullivan M r D. Poulter Ms S. Vegting Ms L. Holgate M r D. Brill

Personnel Branch M r D. O'Leary, Assistant Secretary M r M. Neuhaus M r B. Hunt

Services Branch Ms T. Shand, Assistant Secretary M r R. Down M r J. M ontfries M r J. Lander

Workplace Bargaining Unit M r R. Chidgey

2 8

Australian International Development Assistance Bureau (AIDAB) M r P. Flood, Director General M r T. Terrell, Deputy Director General, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division

M r T. Kanaley, Deputy D irector General, Corporate Development and Support Division M r B. Davis, Deputy Director General, Pacific and International Programs Division M r B. Stensholt, Assistant Director General, South East Asia Branch, Asia,

Africa and Com munity Programs Division M r J. Russell, Assistant Director General, Community, Commercial and Refugee

Program s Branch, Asia, A frica and Community Programs Division M r A. M acDonald, Acting A ssistant Director General, Asia, Africa and Food Branch, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division Dr H elen Ware, Assistant Director General, Sectoral Policy and Review Branch,

Corporate Developm ent and Support Division M s Deborah Stokes, Assistant Director General, Development Issues and Corporate Policy Branch, Corporate Developm ent and Support Division M r R. Casson, Assistant Director General, Financial and Resource

M anagem ent Branch, Corporate Developm ent and Support Division M r M. Proctor, A ssistant D irector General, Papua New Guinea Branch, Pacific and International Program s Division M r M. Commins, A ssistant Director General, South Pacific and Training Branch,

Pacific and International Programs Division Ms D. Casey, Assistant D irector General, International Organisations and Public Affairs Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division M r L. Dunn, Director Corporate Planning, Budget and Effectiveness Review

Section, Development Issues and Corporate Policy Branch, Corporate D evelopm ent and Support Division Ms W. Messer, Director Finance Section, Financial and Resource Management Branch, Corporate Developm ent and Support Division M r R. Mann, Director Development Banks Section, International Organisations

and Public Affairs Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division

Australian Trade Commission (AUSTRADE) M r P. Langhorne, Executive General Manager, Corporate Affairs M r B. Pollock, Acting General Manager, Corporate Finance and Property M r D. Shires, M anager, Government and Economic Affairs

M r D. Oliver, M anager, Export Marketing Finance M r J. Tinney, General Manager, South Pacific

THE SEN A TE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 27 Tuesday, 24 M ay 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 1.04 pm in the M ain Committee Room. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. ORDER OF BUSINESS - TUESDAY 25 MAY

The Committee considered the order o f business for the next day o f sitting. The following resolution was agreed to:

(i) That as previously agreed, the Com mittee commence consideration o f the Department o f Administrative Services at 9.00 am. (ii) In the event that there be no further questions concerning the

Department o f Administrative Services, consideration o f the estimates for the Department o f Communications and the Arts be commenced. (iii) At 2.30 pm, consideration o f the estimates for the Departm ent o f Administrative Services be resumed to allow Senator Campbell to ask questions about this portfolio. (iv) That consideration o f the estimates for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission not com m ence prior to 6.00pm to allow sufficient time for Senator Collins to arrive from Darwin.

3. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 1.05 pm.

10. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee and Troeth.

CONFIRMED:

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

3 0

— Regional Support Office M r P. Downie, Japan/Korea M r D. W alsh, South East Asia Ms P. Quang, East Asia M r T. Hunt, Americas M r J. Cahill, Europe

M r T. W illiam s, South Pacific M r D. W ilson, Special Markets M r C. Plum ley, EM DG M r J. Talevich, Budgets

M r C. Lang, Funding, Budgets and Investm ents

Departm ent o f Finance—· M r H. Baulch, Finance Officer

3. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairm an called on subprograms 1.2 (in continuation), 1.3 - 1.9, 2.1, 2.2, 3.1 - 3.3, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 6.1 - 6.4, 8, 7.1, 7.2.

The follow ing documents w ere tabled:

. list o f names . questions from Senator Calvert

The Com m ittee concluded its examination o f the estimates for the Department o f Foreign Affairs and Trade, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Com m ittee adjourned at 9.40 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee and Troeth. Senators Baume, Calvert, Harradine, I. Macdonald and M argetts also attended.

CONFIRMED:

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

3 1

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 29 Wednesday, 25 May 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 9.06 am in the Main Committee Room. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES PORTFOLIO

The Committee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Administrative Services.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs representing the Minister for Administrative Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Administrative Services Mr J. Mellors, Secretary Mr R. Divett, Executive General Manager, Commercial Mr G. Bashford, Executive General Manager, Business Development Mr M. Clarke, Acting Executive General Manager, Corporate

Asset Services Mr I. Woonton, General Manager

Australian Construction Services Mr T. Halestrap, General Manager Mr H. El-Ansary, National Finance Manager

Australian Government Analytical Laboratories Dr C. Dahl, General Manager

Australian Government Publishing Services Mr A. Law, General Manager

Australian Property Group Ms C. Argali, General Manager Ms J. Lobo, Financial Controller

Australian Surveying and Land Information Group Mr D. White, Acting General Manager Mr D. Clarke, Assistant General Manager, Business Development Mr P. Holland, Acting Assistant General Manager, Business Management Mr D. Hobson, Manager, Corporate Services

3 2

Australian Valuation Office Mr M. Coleman, General Manager

DAS Distribution Mr M. Wright, General Manager

DAS Fleet Mr S. Palywoda, General Manager Mr C. Allen, National Leasing Manager Mr P. Cotterill, National Fleet Manager

Mr H. Faulks, National Rentals Manager Mr G. Cattanach, Manager, Human Resource and Policy Development

DAS Interiors Australia Mr E. Hazeldine, General Manager

DAS Removals Ms J. Mills, General Manager

Business Support Mr G. Williams, General Manager, Commercial Treasury Mr J. Dickenson, General Manager, DASCEM Mr D. Forte, Acting General Manager, AOSS

Support Services Mr D. Rome, General Manager

Ministerial and Parliamentary Services Ms J. McKinnon, General Manager Mr P. O'Neill, Assistant General Manager

Ionospheric Prediction Service Dr P. Wilkinson, Deputy Director

Australian Estate Manager Mr R. Williams, General Manager Mr G. Weir, Deputy General Manager Mr P. Atkinson, National Finance Manager

Comcar Ms M. Box, General Manager

Purchasing Australia Mr P. Taylor, General Manager, Operations Mr B. Peel, General Manager, Policy and Development Ms C. Moore, Assistant General Manager, General Operations Branch Mr R. Webb, Assistant General Manager, IT Contracts and Standards Mr S. Skizpek, Assistant General Manager, Strategic Policy and Marketing

3 3

Information and Advertising Mr T. Robinson, Assistant General Manager, Office of Government Information and Managing

Corporate Management Mr T. Barrell, General Manager, Corporate Resources Mr R. Lansdowne, General Manager, Corporate Development Mr G. Semmens, Acting General Manager, Corporate Policy and Government

Relations Mr Laurie Walsh, Acting Assistant General Manager, Portfolio Finance and Corporate Planning

Commonwealth Grants Commission Mr B. Searle, Secretary

Australian Electoral Commission Mr B. Cox OBE MVO, Electoral Commissioner Dr R. Bell, Deputy Electoral Commissioner Mr P. Skinner, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Resources Mr P. Daccy, Assistant Commissioner, Development and Research Mr J. Howarth, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Industrial Elections, Funding and

Disclosure Mr T. Willson, Assistant Commissioner, Information and Education Mr B. Fahy, Director, Resources Management Mrs E. Gladwin, Director, Funding and Disclosure

Commission of inquiry into ASIS Ms B. Belcher, Secretary to the inquiry

Department of Finance— Mr Stephen O'Connor Ms Louise Hemsley, Assistant Director, Arts and Administrative Services Branch, Transport and Government Division Mr Bemie Hackett, Assistant Director, Arts and Administrative Services Branch,

Transport and Government Division

3. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on programs for consideration in the following order: 1.1 - 1.14, 2.1, 2.2, 1 (resumed consideration), 2.3 - 2.5, 3.1, 3.2, 4, 5, 6.1 - 6.3, 7.

The Committee concluded its examination of the estimates for the Department of Administrative Services, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

3 4

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS PORTFOLIO

The Committee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Communications and the Arts portfolio.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, representing the Minister for Communications and the Arts, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Communications and the Arts

Executive Mr N. Stevens, Secretary Mr M. Hutchinson, Deputy Secretary, Communications Ms C. Santamaria, Acting Deputy Secretary, Arts

Broadcasting Policy Mr T. Shaw, First Assistant Secretary Mr C. North, Principal Adviser Mr J. Neil, Assistant Secretary, Public Broadcasting Policy Branch

Mr P. Field, Assistant Secretary, Commercial Broadcasting Policy Branch Ms S. Page, Director, National Broadcasting Policy Branch

Australian Broadcasting Corporation Mr D. Hill, Managing Director Mr P. Lidbetter, Deputy Managing Director

Special Broadcasting Service Mr M. Long, Managing Director Mr Q. Luu, Head of SBS Radio Ms M. Crowe, Head of Resources

Mr H. Chemas, Director of Finance

Australian Broadcasting Authority Mr P. Webb, Deputy Chairman Mr J. Torpy, Manager, Corporate Services

Mr C. Knowles, General Manager, Planning and Corporate Ms D. Richards, Director, Program Services Mr G. Grainger, General Manager, Policy and Programs

National Transmission Agency Mr V. Jones, General Manager

Telecommunications Policy Mr B. Henderson, First Assistant Secretary Ms F. Holthuyzen, Assistant Secretary, Regulatory Policy Branch Mr G. Luther, Assistant Secretary, Broadband Services Expert Group

3 5

Spectrum Management Agency Ms C. Goode, Acting Spectrum Manager Mr J. Chandler, Manager, Finance

Telstra Corporation Limited Mr J. Holmes, Corporate Secretary Mr D. Krasnostein, General Council Mr S. Black, Group General Manager, Customer Affairs

Australian Postal Corporation Mr G. Ryan, Corporate Secretary Mr D. Exel, Group Manager, Retail

Australian Telecommunications Authority Mr R. Davey, Chairman Mr J. MacMahon, General Manager, Consumer Affairs Branch Ms L. Gordon, General Manager, Corporate Resources Branch

Australian Cultural Development Office Dr K. Daniels, Acting Convenor Mr N. Small, Assistant Secretary, Arts Branch Mr L. Neilson, Assistant Secretary, Film Branch

Artbank Ms L. Alway, Director

Australian Archives Mr G. Nichols, Director General Mr M. Wood, Assistant Director General

Australia Council Ms D. Temby, Acting General Manager Mr G. Chan, Acting Director, Corporate Services Ms S. Gardner, Acting Director, Communications Research

Australian Film Commission Ms L. Galey, Acting Chief Executive Ms J. Saif, Acting Director, Finance and Systems Mr M. Day, Manager, Personnel and Services

Australian Film, Television and Radio School Mr C. Hunt, Finance Manager

National Gallery of Australia Ms B. Churcher, AM, Director Mrs J. Peachy, Assistant Director, Corporate Services

Australian National Maritime Museum Dr K. Fewster, Director

3 6

National Film and Sound Archive Mr R. Brent, Director, National Film and Sound Archive Mr D. Rodda, Acting Senior Manager, Resource Management

National Library of Australia Mr W. Horton, Director-General Mr P. Batho, Finance Manager

National Museum of Australia Ms M. Coaldrek, Director

National Science and Technology Centre Ms C. Bee, Deputy Director

Management Support and Advice Mr R. Palfreyman, First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Elliott, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budgeting Branch

Department of Finance— Ms G. Byme Mr S. Jones

5. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on programs for consideration in the following order: 2.3, 1.3, 1.2, 2.4, 1.4, 2.5, 3.4, 3.5, 3.7, 3.8, 3.3, 1.1, 1.5, 2.1, 2.2, 2.6, 3.1, 3.2, 3.6, 3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3.

Senator Tierney, by leave, tabled the following document.

. letter from Mr M. Hedges, National Manager, FOI, to Mr D. Pinel.

The Committee concluded its examination of the estimates for the Communications and the Arts portfolio, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND CERTAIN PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95: ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER COMMISSION (PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET PORTFOLIO)

The Committee commenced its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission.

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, representing the Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

3 7

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission

Dr P. Shergold, Chief Executive Officer Ms P. Turner, Deputy Chief Executive Officer Mr G. Rees, Deputy Chief Executive Officer Mr R. Morony, General Manager, Economic Mr R. Beadman, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr G. Menham, General Manager, Social and Cultural Mr W. Miller, Director, Office of Evaluation and Audit

Mr C. Plowman, Assistant General Manager, Community Services Mr M. White, Assistant General Manager, Social Support Policy Mr R. Kent, Assistant General Manager, Health and Community Development Mr M. Chapman, Assistant General Manager, Land Heritage and Environment Ms C. Hagan, Assistant General Manager, Commercial Mr S. Hoffman, Assistant General Manager, Regional Support Mr P. Schnierer, Assistant General Manager, Strategic Development Unit Mr J. Ramsay, Assistant General Manager, Economic Development Policy Ms H. Storey, Assistant General Manager, Economics Program Mr I. Myers, Assistant General Manager, Human Resources Mr T. Comforth, Acting Assistant General Manager, Budget and Procedures Mr J. English, Deputy Registrar, Aboriginal Corporations

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commercial Development Corporation Mr R. Cox, Deputy General Manager

Aboriginal Hostels limited Mr Clarke, Acting General Manager Mr J. Rooks, Company Secretary Mr R. Lane, Assistant General Manager, Operations

Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies Dr W. Jonas, Principal Dr K. Palmer, Acting Deputy Principal Mr R. Jackson, Director, Finance

Department of Finance— Mr P. O'Neil

7. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on programs as follows:

8A : 1.1, 1.2, 2.1 - 2.3, 3.1 - 3.3, 4, 5 8B : 1.1 - 1.3, 2.1, 2.4, 3.1 - 3.4, 4.1 - 4.5, 5, 6, 7 8C : 1 - 11, 8D

The Committee concluded its examination of the estimates for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

3 8

8 . ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 12.38 am on Thursday 26 May 1994.

9. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chair), Senators Baume, Campbell, Ferguson, Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley, I. Macdonald, Minchin, Patterson, Tambling, Tierney. Senators Boswell Calvert and Harradine also attended.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 30 Tuesday, 21 June 1994

MEETING

The Committee met at 12.15pm in the Main Committee room. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

OPENING STATEMENT

The Chairman made an opening statement concerning the order of business.

SUPPLEMENTARY CONSIDERATION OF MATTERS RELATING TO THE PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994/95

The Committee commenced its supplementary examination of matters relating to the Proposed Expenditure 1994/95 for the Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio, the Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio, the Communications and the Arts portfolio and the Department of Administrative Services, notice of matters having been given by

Senators in accordance with the Order of the Senate of 6 May 1993.

DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs accompanied by the following officers:

Mr Roger Beale, Associate Secretary Mr Bill Blick, First Assistant Secretary, Government Division Dr Ian Watt, First Assistant Secretary, Economic Division Mr Mark Cunliffe, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Cabinet Office Ms Carol Summerhayes, Senior Adviser, Cabinet Office Ms Ann Sherry, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Status of Women Ms Patricia Kelly, Assistant Secretary, Office of the Status of Women Ms Karen Barfoot, Assistant Secretary, Office of the Status of Women Mr Peter Vaughan, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Mr Thaddeus Leach, Acting Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Branch

Department of Finance— Mr Neville Jackson

CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on the following program items for consideration: Subprograms 1.1, 2.12, 2.2.1, 3.2. The ■ Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the estimates for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, subject to an undertaking to provide

additional information.

6. DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Americas and Europe Division: Mr Ian Forsyth, Assistant Secretary, West Europe Branch Mr James Wise, Director Ms Pat Seymour

Mr Paul O'Sullivan, First Assistant Secretary Mr Bill Patterson, Assistant Secretary

North Asia Division: Mr John Woods, Acting Assistant Secretary Mr Jeffrey Benson, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Peter Rowe

South and South East Asia Division: Mr John Oliver, Acting First Assistant Secretary Ms Judy Pead, Assistant Secretary Mr John Langtry, Assistant Secretary Mr Steven Hewitt Mr Phillip Stonehouse

South Pacific and Middle East Division: Mr Rob Laurie,. Acting Deputy Secretary Mr Greg Urwin, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Peter Hooton

Mr Tony Godfrey-Smith Mr James Batley Mr Gerry McGuire Mr Rob Newton, Acting Assistant Secretary Mr John Hines

Mr Bruce Lendon

Trade Negotiations and Organisations Division: Mr Peter Grey, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr John Crighton, Assistant Secretary Ms Jean Dunn, Assistant Secretary Mr Kevin Wilkinson, Assistant Secretary Mr Michael Carney Mr John Hannoush Ms Joan Hird Mr Milton Churche

Mr Kingsley Barker Mr Bob Dunn

4 1

Economic and Trade Development: Mr Ralph Hillman, Principal Adviser Mr Miles Jordana, Assistant Secretary (APEC) Mr Stephen Deady Mr Tony Healy, Assistant Secretary

Consular Programs and Security Division: Mr Graham Thompson, Director, Consular Operations

International Security Division: Mr Peter Lloyd, Director Mr Rod Smith

Corporate Services Division: Mr Bob Cotton, First Assistant Secretary Mr David Irvine, Assistant Secretary Mr David O'Leary, Assistant Secretary Mr Tony Vincent, Assistant Secretary Mr Graeme Swift, Director Ms Penny Richards, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch Mr John Monfries Mr John Lander Mr Richard Down Mr Graham Wilson Mr David Poulter

International Organisations and Legal Division: Mr Bill Fisher, First Assistant Secretary Mr David Stuart, Director Mr Chris Lamb, Legal Adviser Mr Roland Rich, Legal Adviser Mrs Victoria Owen Mr William Barker Mr Eric Van Der Wal Mr Steven McIntosh Ms Margaret Clarke Mr Peter Lawrence

Public Affairs Division: Mr David Ambrose, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Chris Stewart, Assistant Secretary Mr Colin Mackenzie Mr Jim Mezies Mr Martin Fitzpatrick

Department of Finance— Mr Harley Baulch Mr John Martin

4 2

7. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on the following program items for consideration: Subprograms 1.1.1 and 1.1.3.

Consideration of the estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade was suspended at 1.22 pm to allow consideration of interstate agencies of the Department of Communications and the Arts to commence at 2.00 pm..

8. DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Trade, accompanied by the following officers:

Executive

Mr Neville Stevens, Secretary Mr Mike Hutchison, Deputy Secretary, Communications Ms Cathy Santamaria, Acting Deputy Secretary, Arts

Program 1— Broadcasting Subprogram 1.1—Broadcasting Policy Mr John Neil, Acting First Assistant Secretary Ms Susan Page, Acting Assistant Secretary, Public Broadcasting Policy Branch Mr Peter Field, Assistant Secretary, Commercial Broadcasting Policy Branch Mr Graeme King, Director, Pay Television Section

Subprogram 1.2— Australian Broadcasting Corporation Mr Peter Lidbetter, Deputy Managing Director Mr Paddy Conroy, Director, Television

Subprogram 1.4—Australian Broadcasting Authority Mr Peter Webb, Deputy Chairman Mr Colin Knowles, General Manager, Planning and Corporate

Subprogram 1.5— National Transmission Agency Mr Vic Jones, General Manager

Program 2—Communications Subprogram 2.1— Telecommunications Policy Ms Fay Holthuyzen, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr James Barr, Assistant Secretary, Trade and Development Branch

Mr Colin Oliver, Acting Assistant Secretary, Enterprise Policy Branch

Subprogram 2.3— Telstra Corporation Limited Mr Graeme Ward, Director of Strategy Mr David Krasnostein, General Counsel Mr Steve Black, Group General Manager, Customer Affairs

Subprogram 2.5—Australian Telecommunications Authority

4 3

Mr Rick Campbell, Chief Operating Officer Mr John MacMahon, General Manager, Consumer Affairs Branch Ms Lesley Gordon, General Manager, Corporate Resources Branch

Program 3—Cultural Development Subprogram 3.1—Australian Cultural Development Office Ms Leslie Band, Acting Assistant Secretary, Arts Branch

Subprogam 3.3— Australia Council Ms Dianna Temby, Acting General Manager Mr Gabriel Chan, Acting Director, Corporate Services Ms Sara Gardner, Acting Director, Communications Research

Program 4—Corporate Direction and Support Subprogram 4.3-Management Support and Advice Mr Robert Palfreyman, First Assistant Secretary Mr John Elliott, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budgeting Branch

Department of Finance— Steve Rylands

9. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on program items for consideration in the following order: Subprograms 1.2, 1.4, 2.3, 2.5, 3.3.

The Committee suspended its supplementary examination of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

10. DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE - RESUMED CONSIDERATION

The Committee resumed its examination of the estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The Chairman called on program items for consideration in the following order: 1.2.1, 1.2.2, 1.3.2, 1.3.3, 1.4.1-1.4.3, 1.5.2, 1.5.4, 1.6.1-1.6.4, 1.7.1, 1.7.2, 1.8.1, 3.2, 3.3, 6, 7.

Questions concerning the Basel convention placed on notice by Senator Ian Macdonald were accepted by the Minister.

The following documents were tabled:

. Review of the independent inquiry report into population and development, April 1994 (Senator Harradine - incorporated by leave)

. Asia Pacific economic Co-operation secretariat (Senator McMullan)

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, subject to an undertaking to provide

4 4

additional information.

11. DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS - RESUMED CONSIDERATION

Questions were placed on notice on behalf of Senator Ferguson and were accepted by the Minister.

T here being no further questions, the Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the D epartm ent of Communications and the Arts subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

12. ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER COMMISSION

In A ttendance: Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:

Ms P. Turner, Deputy Chief Executive Officer Mr G. Rees, Deputy Chief Executive Officer M r R. Morony, G eneral Manager, Economic M r R. Beadman, G eneral Manager, Corporate Services M r G. Menham, General Manager, Social and Cultural Mr W. Miller, Director, Office of Evaluation and Audit

Mr C. Plowman, Assistant General Manager, Community Services M r M. White, Assistant General Manager, Social Support Policy M r R. Kent, Assistant G eneral Manager, Health and Community Development M r M. Chapman, Assistant General Manager, Land Heritage and Environment

M r S. Hoffman, Assistant General Manager, Regional Support M r I. Myers, Assistant G eneral Manager, Hum an Resources M r J. Eldridge, Assistant G eneral Manager, Budget and Procedures

D epartm ent of F inance- Mr Patrick O'Neil

13. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on program items for consideration in the following order: Programs 8B (1.1, 2.2, 3.2, 3.4, 4.3), 8C(7, 10.2).

T he Committee concluded its supplementary examination subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

14. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 12.27 am on Wednesday 22 June 1994.

45

15. ATTENDANCE

Senators Childs (Chairman), Alston, Baume, Brownhill, Campbell, Ferguson, Forshaw, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee, Troeth. Senators Boswell, Calvert, Chapman, Harradine, Margetts, McGauran, Panizza and Tambling also attended.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

4 6

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 31 Thursday 23 Junel994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 5.06 pm in House of Representatives Committee Room 1R1. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. SUPPLEMENTARY CONSIDERATION OF MATTERS RELATING TO THE PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994/95

The Committee resumed its supplementary examination of matters relating to the Proposed Expenditure 1994/95 for the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Foreign Affairs and Trade and Communications and the Arts Portfolios, and the Department of

Administrative Services, notice of these matters having been given by Senators in accordance with the Order of the Senate of 6 May 1993:

3. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Trade, accompanied by the following officers:

Mr Ross Divett, Executive General Manager, Commercial Mr Graham Bashford, Executive General Manager, Business Development Mr Michael Clarke, Executive General Manager, Corporate

1.1 Asset Services Mr Ian Woonton, General Manager

1.2 Australian Construction Services Mr Terry Halestrap, General Manager

1.5 Australian Property Group Ms Cathy Argali, General Manager

1.7 Australian Valuation Office Mr Malcolm Coleman, General Manager

1.8 DAS Fleet Mr Steve Palywoda, General Manager Mr Chris Allen, National Leasing Manager Mr Gavan Cattanach, Manager, Human Resources and Policy Development

1.12 Business Support Mr Greg Williams, General Manager, Commercial Treasury

4 7

2.1 Ministerial & Parliamentary Services Ms Julie McKinnon, General Manager Mr Paul O'Neill, Assistant General Manager

2.3 Australian Estate Management Mr Richard Williams, General Manager Mr Greg Weir, Deputy General Manager Mr Ken Leigh, Regional Manager

2.5 Comcar Ms Mel Box, General Manager

4 Corporate Management Mr Trevor Barrell, General Manager, Corporate Resources Mr Graham Semmens, Acting General Manager, Corporate Policy & Government Relations Mr Laurie Walsh, Acting Assistant General Manager, Corporate Planning & Finance Mr Bill Gray, Acting Assistant General Manager, Employee Relations and Management Mr John Gavin, Assistant General Manager, Corporate Taskforce Ms April Purry, Acting Assistant General Manager, Government and Legal Mr Lembit Suur, Acting Assistant General Manager, Awards & National Symbols Mr Paul Ferrari, Acting Assistant General Manager, Corporate Policy Mr Ron Thomson, Director, Corporate Property Management

6 Australian Electoral Commission Mr Brian Cox OBE MVO, Electoral Commissioner Dr Robin Bell, Deputy Electoral Commissioner Mr Paul Dacey, Assistant Commissioner, Development & Research Mr Philip Skinner, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Resources

Department of Finance— Louise Hemsley Bemie Hackett Tony Singer Brad McDonald

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES

The Chairman called on program items for consideration in the following order: Programs 1.1, 1.2, 1.5, 1.7, 1.9, 2.1, 2.3, 2.5, 4, 6, 6.1, 6.3.

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 10.07 pm.

4 8

6. ATTENDANCE

Senators Childs (Chairman), Baume, Campbell, Forshaw, Kemp and Loosley. Senator Tambling also attended.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

49

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 32 Thursday, 30 June 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 9.25 am in the Senate Government Lobby.

2. CONSIDERATION OF SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT

The report of the Committee was adopted.

3. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

The minutes of meetings held on 12, 24, 25 May and 21, 23 June 1994 were confirmed.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 9.27 am.

5. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman) and Senators Loosley, Kemp, Brownhill, Forshaw and Tierney.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

B.K. CHILDS c h a i r m a n

Estimates Committee A

Report on the Supplementary Hearings

June 1994

51

MfcMBtiKS Ur 1 fit, LUMMII 1 t t

CHAIR: Senator B.K. Childs (New South Wales)

MEMBERS: Senator A B . Ferguson (South Australia)

Senator M.G. Forshaw (New South Wales) Senator R Kemp (Victoria) Senator S. Loosley (New South Wales) Senator W.G. O'Chee (Queensland)

Senator Troeth replaced Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet

Senator Brownhill replaced Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator Troeth replaced Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator Tierney to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Alston to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Communications component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Baume to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Arts component o f the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator Baume to replace Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Senator Campbell to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Senator Minchin to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services.

Secretary: Peter Hallahan

Research Staff: Merrilyn Pyle Veronica Strkalj

52

TABLE OF CONTENTS

SUBJECT PAGE

Members of the Committee (SO

Report to the Senate 1

5 3

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A presents its Report to the Senate.

1. On 12 May 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee, for

examination and report, the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the

service of the year ending on 30 June 1995, and the Particulars of Certain

Proposed Expenditure for the service of the year ending 30 June 1995, in

respect of the following ministerial portfolios:

. Prime Minister and Cabinet (including the Office of the Official

Secretary to the Governor-General)

. Foreign Affairs and Trade

. Communications and the Arts

. Administrative Services

2. The Committee considered the proposed expenditure at public

hearings held on 24 and 25 May 1994 and tabled its report on 2 June 1994.

In accordance with the Order of the Senate of 6 May 1993, the Committee

fixed Friday 10 June 1994 as the date for the receipt of written answers and

5 4

additional information, and 21 June as the date for the commencement of

the supplementary hearings. Supplementary hearings were subsequently held

on 21 June and 23 June 1994.

3. The timeliness of the provision of answers varied considerably between

agencies and Departments. The Departments of Prime Minister and Cabinet,

Foreign Affairs and Trade (excluding AUSTRADE and AIDAB) and

Administrative Services responded within the deadline set. Only one answer

from AIDAB was received after the deadline. The Aboriginal and Torres

Strait Islander Commission provided answers on 10 and 21 June. No answers

were received from AUSTRADE or the Department of Communications

and the Arts until 20 June, and a number of questions from the Department

of Communications and the Arts were still outstanding on 21 June, the day

of the first supplementary hearing.

4. Senators were dissatisfied at the late provision of answers. Provision

of answers on the evening before or on the day of a supplementary hearing

does not allow sufficient time for Senators to properly examine the material

provided. Every effort should be made to provide answers to questions on

notice by the deadline set by the Committee. Late answers shall only be

tolerated if there are extenuating circumstances, and even then, these

answers should be forwarded to the Committee at least 24 hours before the

supplementary hearings.

5. The Committee notes that officers of the Department of

Communications and the Arts and AUSTRADE apologised to the

Committee for the late provision of answers. AUSTRADE officers explained

that the answers had to be checked and in some cases, the relevant people

5 5

were overseas. Mr Stevens, the Secretary of the Department of

Communications and the Arts, said that the reason the questions were late

was because there were a vety large number of questions taken on notice

and it took a considerable period to process them. The Minister for Primary

Industries and Energy, Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, defended the time

taken to provide answers, stating that ”Iam anxious to provide Senators with

what th ey want, but to answer a stack o f questions,.... , in four weeks is a

p r e tty g o o d effort, considering the amount o f detail which is required It

takes enormous effort to gam er this in formation}

6. The Committee acknowledges the very considerable administrative

effort which agencies have put into the provision of answers to questions

taken on notice, particularly when large volumes of information are sought,

and thanks all concerned for their co-operation.

7. The Committee believes that the process as it currently exists is

unsatisfactory to all concerned and expresses the hope that the difficulties

it has highlighted in this report will be rectified following the Senate's

consideration of the Procedure Committee's report on the Committee

system.

Senator Bruce Childs

Chairman

' E v i d e n c e , p39 0.

5 6

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

JUNE 1994

THE COMMITTEE

Members:

S enator B ryant Burns (ALP.QLD), C hairm an S enator Kim C arr (ALP,VIC) S enator G ran t Chapm an (LP,SA) S enator C hris Evans (ALP.WA) S enator David MacGibbon (LP.QLD) S enator Baden Teague (LP,SA)

S enators C rane and Minchin to replace Senators MacGibbon and Teague for the consideration of the estim ates of the D epartm ent of Industrial Relations

S enators Ferguson and M inchin to replace Senators MacGibbon and Teague for the consideration of the estim ates of the D epartm ent of Tourism

S enator Denman to replace Senator C hris Evans for hearings taking place on 24 and 25 May

Secretary:

Jam es W arm enhoven T he Senate P arliam ent House C anberra Telephone: (06) 277 3562

5 8

CONTENTS

R eport to th e S enate

Introduction ............................................................................................................. 1

G eneral M atters ..................................................................................................... 2

D epartm ent of Defence ......................................................................................... 2

D epartm ent of V eterans' Affairs . . D epartm ent of T o u r i s m .................

D epartm ent of In d u strial Relations

M inutes o f Proceedings

Tuesday, 24 May 1994 ........................................................................................... 7

W ednesday, 25 May 1994 .................................................................................... 13

W ednesday, 1 Ju n e 1994 .................................................................................... 15

Index to H an sard

D epartm ent of Defence ....................................................................................... 17

D epartm ent of V eterans' A ffa irs ........................................................................ 17

D epartm ent of T o u r is m ....................................................................................... 18

D epartm ent of Industrial Relations .............. 18

5 9

i O

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

JUNE 1994

INTRODUCTION

1. On 12 May 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee for examination

and report:

• Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1995, from Appropriation Bill (No 1) 1994-95; and

• Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1995 from Appropriation Bill (No 2) 1994-95.

2. The following Departments were allocated to the Committee by resolution

of the Senate on 4 May 1994:1

• Defence

• Veterans' Affairs

• Industrial Relations

• Tourism

3. The Committee met in public session in Parliament House on Tuesday 24

May 1994 and Wednesday 25 May 1994. The Committee used the relevant Portfolio

Budget Measures Statements for each portfolio, and received evidence from the Minister

for Defence (Senator the Hon Robert Ray) and officers of the Departments and

authorities concerned.

4. The Committee expresses its appreciation for the assistance provided by

the Minister and the officers who appeared before it.

Journals o f the Senate. No 77, 4 May 1994, p 1571.

6 0

SE N A T E E STIM A TE S C OM M ITTEE B

5. This R eport includes the Committee's Minutes of Proceedings, and an

Index to the Hansard report of the Committee's hearings. The Hansard report and

additional information provided in response to questions taken on notice will be tabled

separately.

6. The Committee draws attention to its resolution, carried at meeting No 17

on 1 June 1994 that any supplementary meetings be held on 21 June 1994. Notice of

matters for a supplementary meeting should be lodged with the Committee by 17 June

1994 pursuant to Procedural Order No 10 of 6 May 1993.

GENERAL MATTERS

7. A number of members commented on the various changes which followed

the bringing forward of the annual Budget from August to May. These included changes

in the types of information provided in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements, the

non-availability of draft annual reports, and not being able to compare proposed

expenditure with actual expenditure for the financial year concerned.

8. The Minister observed that the new procedures had both advantages and

disadvantages - perhaps the most conspicuous advantage would be that the information

made available to Estimates Committees would now be more evenly spread throughout

the year rather than concentrated at the time of consideration of the Budget

appropriations.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Program 1 - Forces Executive

9. Some Committee members queried defence policy where personnel from

different forces were m arried but not able to obtain postings compatible with their

domestic arrangements.

6 1

R E P O R T TO TH E SE N A T E

10. Defence responded that, wherever practicable, an attem pt was made to

meet the family requirements of married service personnel, but that unavoidable

difficulties arose where, for example, for career reasons, an air force member was posted

to an area where there were few opportunities for a spouse who was a member of the

army or the navy. In these circumstances, it was expected that the married couple would

themselves decide whose career would take precedence, and this would determine the

posting preference. While the defence force had long recognised that there was an

increasing number of dual income families within the ADF, and had put in place

mechanisms to try to assist spouses in gaining employment in the posting locality, it was

not always possible to ensure that it happened. Defence agreed that it did at least as

much, if not more, than most other employers to try to accommodate married couples.

Subprogram 2.1 - Navy: Combat Forces (Mantime Operations)

11. The Committee sought advice as to the recognition within the civilian

community of trade skills acquired during service with the ADF. Defence stressed its

efforts in having its courses accredited, and advised that skills acquired by defence force

personnel were readily transferable and marketable - this provided one reason for the

problems experienced in retaining personnel.

Subprogram 5.1 - Strategy and Intelligence: Policy and Support

12. Current policy precludes high level contact between Australia and China

in the defence area. The Minister was asked about the timing of any resumption of

contact.

13. The Minister replied that this matter was reviewed by himself and the

Minister for Foreign Affairs at six monthly intervals and was currently due for revision.

14. The Committee considers that much good would come from the removal

of any obstacles to contact in this area, and urges that consideration be given to their

removal.

6 2

SE N A T E E STIM A TE S COM M ITTEE B

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

Subprogram I_2 - Benefits: Compensation

15. The Committee sought further information about veterans who had had

their disability pensions cancelled for failure to provide a tax file number to the

Departm ent. In particular, the Committee sought details of the legal advice on which the

decision to cancel (rather than suspend) the pensions had been based, the number of

(and names of) pension recipients affected, and the procedures implemented by the

Departm ent to ensure that recipients were made aware of the change in policy.

16. In reply, the Departm ent reaffirmed its understanding that only 125

veterans had been affected within the past 12 months, drew attention to the frequency

with which veterans "simply disappear" and cannot be traced, and undertook to provide

to the Committee such information as it was legally able to provide.

DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

Program 2 - Bureau o f Tourism Research

17. The Committee inquired about the extent of any duplication in the

activities of the Bureau of Tourism Research (which was established to provide

independent, accurate, timely and strategically relevant statistics and analyses to the

tourism industry, the government and the community) and the recently created Tourism

Forecasting Council (which had been set up to, among other things, "improve the quality

of information on industry conditions").

18. The D epartm ent stated that there was no duplication in activities - the

Bureau providing most of the technical and statistical data for the Forecasting Council

to analyse. The Council was involved not only in producing forecasts but in "confidence

building", and the breadth, range and varied experience of Council members contributed

both to the integrity of the forecasts and to this process of confidence building.

6 3

R E P O R T TO T H E S E N A T E

Program 4 - Executive and Support

19. Volume 8 of the Auditor-General's Report No 1 of 1993-94 included a

qualification following an audit of the financial statements of the Department of Tourism.

This qualification had been included "because payments totalling $1,387,731 were not

supported by adequate documentation or were paid prior to the receipt of relevant goods

and services". The Committee asked whether this issue had been addressed and, if so,

with what results.

20. The Department stated that the Auditor-General's report had referred to

the Department's 1991-92 financial statements; that the Auditor-General's concerns had

been addressed through appropriate training arrangements within the relevant section of

the Department; and that the Department had since had a subsequent audit and there

had been no adverse statements with regard to the Department's 1992-93 Annual Report.

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Subprogram 1.7 - Trade Union Training Authority

21. Questions were raised concerning the terms and appropriateness of a joint

venture agreement between the Trade Union Training Authority (TUTA) and the

Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) for a library and information service. The

concerns expressed were that the deed was signed on 12 March 1993, being the day

before the last federal election, that staff were not consulted about the proposal and told

fourteen days before the federal election that the move had to be made within fourteen

days. Concern was also expressed that the joint venture made the two partners tenants

in common in equal shares whereas the ACTU provided only one sixth of the capital

assets, and that there was to be a closure of all TUTA State offices other than those in

trade union owned buildings.

22. In response, TUTA contended that the decision to relocate its information

service was taken in February 1993, following a recommendation for a review of the

64

SE N A T E E STIM A TE S COM MITTEE B

service which was included in its 1992 strategic plan; that the negotiations and

arrangements for the joint venture had been thorough and had due regard to legal advice

concerning the protection of the Authority's interests; that consultation within the

organisation had taken place through established consultative mechanisms and through

direct discussions with the representative staff union - the Public Sector Union; that the

amalgamated library provided users from each organisation with access to a broader

range of materials than was previously available; that the closure of the regional TUTA

offices followed a decision to consolidate and focus the Authority's operations and reduce

its staff numbers; and that offices leased by TUTA were rented at market rates using the

property negotiating services of the D epartm ent of Administrative Services and the

Australian Property Group. The Authority agreed to make available from its records

further information of a more detailed nature on this issue.

Senator BR Bums

Chairman

6 5

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO 15

TUESDAY 24 MAY 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met in public session at 9.05 am in Committee Room 2S1, Parliament House, Canberra. Senator Burns took the Chair.

2. APOLOGIES

Senators Crane, Denman and Minchin.

3. CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT

The Chairman made an opening statement.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95 -DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

In Attendance: Senator the Hon Robert Ray and officers of the

Departm ent of Defence and the Australian Defence Force listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration as set out in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements 1994­ 95 for the Defence portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Forces Executive

Subprogram 1.1 - 1.2 -1.3 -1.4 -1.5 -1.6 - 1.7-

Strategic Operations and Plans Military Strategic and Force Development Personnel Emergency Management Australia Executive Support Australian Defence Force Superannuation Defence Housing

6 6

Subprogram 2.1 - Combat Forces (Maritime Operations) 2.2 - Executive (Corporate Management) 2.3 - Logistics Support 2.4 - Training

Program 2 - Navy

Program 3 - Army

Subprogram 3.1 -3.2 -3.3 -3.4 -

3.5 -

Combat Forces (Land Operations) Executive (Corporate Management) Base Logistics Individual Training

Support

Program 4 - Air Force

Subprogram 4.1 -4.2 -4.3 -4.4 -

Combat Forces Executive Logistics

Training

Program 5 - Strategy and Intelligence

Subprogram 5.1 - Policy and Support 5.2 - New Major Investment 5.3 - Intelligence 5.4 - Defence Co-operation

Program 6 - Acquisition and Logistics

Subprogram 6.1 - Major Capital Equipment 6.2 - Facilities 6.3 - Logistics 6.4 - Industry Involvement and Contracting

Program 7 - Budget and Management

Subprogram 7.1 -7.2 -7.3 -7.4 -

Personnel and Management Finance Program Delivery Assessment Regional Support

6 7

Subprogram 8.1 - Aeronautical and Maritime Research 8.2 - Electronics and Surveillance Research 8.3 - Executive

Program 8 - Science and Technology

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned from 12.50 pm to 2.05 pm.

Consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Defence portfolio was completed at 5.08 pm.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95 - DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon R obert Ray and officers of the

Departm ent of Veterans' Affairs listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration as set out in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements 1994­ 95 for the Veterans' Affairs portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Benefits

Subprogram 1.1 - Income Support 1.2 - Compensation

Program 2 - Health

Subprogram 2.1 -2.2 -2.3 -2.4 -

Treatment Management DVA Health Care Services Community Health Care Services Vietnam Veterans' Counselling Service

Program 3 - War Graves

Subprogram 3.1 - 3.2 -Commemorations Care and Maintenance

Program 4 - Corporate Services

Subprogram 4.1 - Executive Support

Program 5 - War Memorial

Subprogram 5.1 - National Collection 5.2 - Public Programs

6 8

5.3 - Specialist Services 5.4 - Corporate Services 5.5 - Official History

7. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned from 6.35 pm to 8.03 pm.

Consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Veteran's Affairs portfolio was completed at 6.35 pm.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95 -DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

In Attendance: Senator the Hon Robert Ray and officers of the

D epartm ent of Tourism listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration as set out in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements 1994­ 95 for the Tourism portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Tourism

Subprogram 1.2 - Regional Development 1.3 - International Industry Development 1.4 - Economic policy

Program 2 - Bureau of Tourism Research

Program 3 - Australian Tourist Commission

Program 4 - Executive and Support

Subprogram 4.1 - Executive

10. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 9.25 pm on Tuesday 24 May 1994.

Present: Senator B Burns

Senator K Carr Senator G Chapman Senator A Ferguson Senator D MacGibbon Senator B Teague

6 9

Senator D Margetts Senator G Tambling

In Attendance: James Warmenhoven (Committee Secretary)

CONFIRMED

Senator BR Bums Chairman

7 0

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO 16

W EDNESDAY 25 MAY 1994

1.

2.

3.

4.

MEETING

The Com mittee met in public session at 9.08 am in Committee Room 2S1, Parliam ent House, Canberra. Senator Bums took the Chair.

APOLOGIES

Senators D enm an and Minchin.

CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT

The Chairm an made an opening statement.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95 - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon Robert Ray and officers of the

D epartm ent of Industrial Relations listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairm an called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration as set out in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements 1994­ 95 for the Industrial Relations portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Industrial Relations Policy Development

Subprogram 1.1 - 1.2 -1.5 -

1.7 -

Policy Development and Advice Private Sector Workplace Reform and Best Practice Australian Industrial Relations Commission and Australian Industrial Registry Australian Trade Union Training Authority

Program 2 - Public Sector Workplace Development and Services

Subprogram 2.3 - Remuneration Tribunals

7 1

Subprogram 3.2 - Legal and International

Program 3 - Corporate Direction and Support

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 5.51 pm on Wednesday 25 May 1994.

Present: Senator B Bums

Senator K Can- Senator G Chapman Senator W Crane

Senator E Abetz

In Attendance: James Warmenhoven (Committee Secretary)

CONFIRMED

Senator BR Bums Chairman

7 2

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO 17

W EDNESDAY 1 JUNE 1994

MEETING

The Committee met at 1.52 pm in the Government Advisers' Area outside the Senate Chamber, Parliament House, Canberra. Senator Bums took the Chair.

APOLOGIES

Senators Carr and Teague.

DRAFT REPORT

Senator Crane moved an amendment to paragraph 21 of the Draft Report. Adoption of this amendment necessitated changes to paragraph 22. Senator Chapman moved:

That paragraph 21 of the Draft R eport be amended as proposed by Senator Crane;

That paragraph 22 of the Draft Report be consequently amended in terms to be agreed between the Chairman and Senator Crane; and

That the amended draft be adopted as the R eport of the

Committee.

The motion was carried on the voices.

COMMITTEE RESOLUTIONS

Senator Chapm an moved:

That the draft minutes for meetings 37/15 and 37/16 be adopted;

That any supplementary meetings of the Committee be held on Tuesday 21 June; and

That Friday 10 June be fixed as the last day for the submission to Estimates Committee B of written answers or additional information relating to the Bills for expenditure for 1994-95.

The motions were carried on the voices.

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 1.59 pm.

Present: Senator B Burns

Senator G Chapman Senator C Evans Senator D MacGibbon

Senator W Crane Senator A Ferguson

In Attendance: James Warmenhoven (Committee Secretary)

CERTIFIED CORRECT

Senator B Burns Chairman

7 4

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B - INDEX TO HANSARD

TUESDAY 24 MAY 1994

Page

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Officers in attendance B1

Introduction - C hairm an B1

Overview B3

P rogram 1 - Forces Executive Subprogram 1.1 - O perations and P lans B12

P rogram 2 - Navy Subprogram 2.1 - C om bat Forces B19

P rogram 3 - Army B28

P rogram 4 - Air Force Subprogram 4.4 - T rain in g B37

P rogram 5 - Strategy and Intelligence B40

P rogram 6 - Acquisition and logisitics B47

P rogram 7 - Budget and M anagem ent B74

P rogram 8 - Science an d Technology B77

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

Officers in attendance

Introduction - C hairm an ^80

P rogram 1 - Benefits Subprogram 1.2 - C om pensation ^80

P rogram 2 - H ealth ^84

7 5

Program 3 - W ar Graves Subprogram 3.1 - Com memoration B93

DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

Program 1 - Tourism Subprogram 1.2 - Regional Development B97

Subprogram 1.3 - International Industry Development B100

Program 2 - B ureau of Tourism Research B106

Program 3 - A ustralian T ourist Commission BIOS

Program 4 - Executive and support Subprogram 4.1 - Executive B110

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Officers in A ttendance B113

Introduction - C hairm an B114

Program 1 - Industrial relations policy development, workplace reform and best practice Subprogram 1.1 - Policy development and advice B114

Subprogram 1.2 - Private sector workplace reform and best practice B115

Subprogram 1.5 - A ustralian Industrial Relations Commission A ustralian Industrial Register B118

Subprogram 1.7 - A ustralian Trade Union T raining A uthority B127

Program 2 - Public Sector Workplace Development and Services Subprogram 2.3 - R em uneration Tribunals B186

Program 3 - C orporate Direction and Support Subprogram 3.2 - Legal and International B188

76

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

BUDG ET ESTIMATES 1994/95

M IN U TES OF SUPPLEM ENTARY HEARING

JU N E 1994

7 7

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE B

MINUTES O F PROCEEDINGS

NO 18

TUESDAY 21 JU N E 1994

SUPPLEM ENTARY M EETING

The Committee met in public session at 12.12 pm in Committee Room 2S1, Parliament House, Canberra. Senator Bums took the Chair.

APOLOGIES

Senators Minchin, Teague and Ferguson.

CHAIRMAN'S STATEM ENT

The Chairman made an opening statement.

PARTICULARS O F PRO PO SED EX PEN D ITU RE F O R 1994-95 DEPARTM ENT O F D EFEN C E

In Attendance: Senator the Hon R obert Ray, Minister for Defence, accompanied by officers of the D epartm ent of Defence and the Australian Defence Force (as recorded in Hansard).

The Committee commenced consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Defence portfolio at 12.12 pm.

The Chairman called on supplementary questions in accordance with notice of matters received as follows:

Subprogram 1.3: Personnel Subprogram 1.7: Defence Housing

Subprogram 2.1: Navy - Combat Forces Subprogram 2.3: Navy - Logistics Support

Subprogram 4.1: Air Force - Combat Forces Subprogram 4.4: Air Force - Training

Subprogram 6.1 Subprogram 6.2 Subprogram 6.4

M ajor Capital Equipm ent Facilities Industry Involvement and Contracting

Program 7: Budget and M anagement

T he Com m ittee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the D epartm ent of Defence at 3.05 pm. The Committee was also adjourned between 12.57 pm and 2.17 pm.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

In A ttendance: Senator the Hon R obert Ray, representing the Minister for V eterans' Affairs, accompanied by officers of the D epartm ent of Veterans' Affairs (as recorded in Hansard).

T he Com mittee commenced consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Veterans' Affairs portfolio at 3.05 pm.

T he Chairm an called on supplem entary questions in accordance with notice of m atters received as follows:

Program 1: Benefits

T he Com mittee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the D epartm ent of Veterans' Affairs at 3.52 pm.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95

DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

In A ttendance: Senator the Hon R obert Ray, representing the Minister for Tourism, accom panied by officers of the D epartm ent of Tourism (as recorded in Hansard).

The Com mittee commenced its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Tourism portfolio at 3.52 pm.

T he Chairm an called on supplementary questions in accordance with notice of m atters received as follows:

Subprogram 1.4: Economic Policy Subprogram 4.1: Executive

The Com mittee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the D epartm ent of Tourism at 4.15 pm.

7 9

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

In Attendance: Senator the H on Robert Ray, representing the Minister for Industrial Relations, accompanied by officers of the D epartm ent of Industrial Relations (as recorded in Hansard).

The Committee commenced its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Industrial Relations portfolio at 4.15 pm.

The Chairman called on supplementary questions in accordance with notice of matters received as follows:

Subprogram 1.2: Private Sector Workplace Reform and Best Practice Subprogram 1.7: Australian Trade Union Training Authority

Subprogram 2.3: Rem uneration Tribunals

Subprogram 3.2: Legal and International Subprogram 3.3: Corporate Development

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the D epartm ent of Industrial Relations at 10.06 pm. The Committee was also adjourned between 6.29 pm and 8.00 pm.

7. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 10.06 pm.

Present: Senator B Burns (Chairman)

Senator K Carr Senator G Chapman Senator W Crane Senator C Evans Senator D MacGibbon

Senator M Baume Senator E Abetz Senator R Kemp

In Attendance: James W armenhoven (Committee Secretary)

CERTIFIED CORRECT

Senator B^Burns Chairman

8 0

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

JU N E 1994

8 1

MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair) (Queensland)

Senator Kay Denman (Tasmania)

Senator Ian Macdonald (Queensland) t *

Senator Jocelyn Newman (Tasmania) Φ *

Senator Kay Patterson (Victoria) Φ

Senator Sue West (New South Wales)

Φ Senators Noel Crichton-Browne and Michael Baume to replace Senators Jocelyn Newman and Kay Patterson for the consideration of the estimates for the Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio

+ Senator G rant Tambling to replace Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates for the Human Services and Health Portfolio

Senators John Herron and Bob Woods to replace Senators Ian Macdonald and Jocelyn Newman for the consideration of the estimates for the Social Security Portfolio

Secretariat

Janice Pauli, Secretary Leonie Peake, Research Officer Peter Short, Research Officer

8 2

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Page

R eport to the Senate

In tro d u c tio n ...................................................................................................................... 1

Issues relating to all Portfolios exam ined................................................................... 2

Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio ......................................................... 3

H um an Services and Health P o rtfo lio ........................................................................ 3

Social Security Portfolio ................................................................................................ 4

Dissenting R eport ................................................................................................................. 9

Minutes of Proceedings

Thursday, 12 May 1994 (private) ................................................................................. 13

Tuesday, 24 May 1994 (p u b lic )...................................................................................... 14

Wednesday, 25 May 1994 (public)................................................................................. 19

Wednesday, 1 June 1994 (private) .............................................................................. 24

Appendix 1 — Table of Contents of Hansard transcripts of evidence

Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio ........................................................... 27

Hum an Services and Health P o rtfo lio ................................................................. 27-28

Social Security Portfolio ..................................................................................................29

8 3

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C presents its R eport to the Senate.

Introduction

1. On 12 May 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 and the particulars of certain proposed expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the following Portfolios:

• Environment, Sport and Territories

• Human Services and Health

• Social Security.

2. The Committee has considered the expenditure of the Portfolios as in their respective Portfolio Budget Measures Statements and has received explanations of the estimates at the Committee's hearings on 24 May 1994 (Environment, Sport and Territories, and Human Services and Health) and 25 May 1994 (Human Services and Health, and Social Security) from Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, and officers from the relevant Departments. The Committee expresses its appreciation for the assistance of the Minister and the officers who appeared before it.

3. This report includes the Committee's Minutes of Proceedings and a table of contents to the Hansard reports. The Hansard transcripts of evidence and answers to questions taken on notice prior to and at the Committee's hearings will be tabled separately in the Senate.

A number of matters discussed by the Committee are referred to in the following sections.

8 4

4. ISSUES RELATING TO ALL PORTFOLIOS EXAMINED

Officers Attending — Gender Balance

The Committee has previously commented on the predominance of male SES officers appearing at its hearings, a factor which did not reflect those Portfolios' gender balance or commitment to EEO principles.

The Committee was pleased to note that there was an increase in the number of female SES officers in attendance during the budget hearings. This increase was highlighted when, for the first time, a wholly female SES representation appeared at the table during questioning on a program of the Social Security Portfolio.

Portfolio Budget Measures Statements

Although Senators had been given an undertaking by the Department of Finance that the information contained in the PMBS would enable them to closely examine the proposed expenditure of Portfolios, members of the Committee found that the information was not sufficiently detailed to assist with the

examination of individual programs, and that the format made it difficult to access and understand the information provided.1

Members found that detailed information was not provided on programs which were not seeking funds for new budget initiatives.2 Members also found great difficulty in assessing the information provided as it was spread across tables in

three different areas in the PBMS.

The Committee is concerned at the diminution in significant information at this stage of the budget process and the difficulty members had in accessing the information provided.

Increased Demands on Senators' Resources

A Committee member expressed the view that advances in technology and other factors created demands that were difficult to meet with the resources available to Senators.3

1. Hansard, 24 May 1994, pp.C45, 71, 85, 90.

2. ibid, p.C45.

3. Hansard, 25 May 1994, p.C154.

8 5

5. ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO

Program 4 — Sport and Recreation

Facilities Program — Rollover o f Funds

The Committee noted the continuing pattern of rolling-over unspent grants which had been the subject of an Auditor-General's inquiry.4

6. HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

Program 5 — Disability Programs

Conditional Migrant Entry — Medical Clearances

The Committee expressed concern at the length of time the Departm ent has taken to clarify the policy on conditional migrant entry. Discussion focussed on the timing of the response to the Joint Committee on Migrant Regulations' report on

conditional migrant entry. The Committee noted that no response appears to have been made since the report was released in 1992. The Committee was advised that an Inter-Departmental Committee, chaired by the Department of

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, had been formed and that it intends to quickly develop a response for the consideration of the Government.5

Discussion also focussed on the criteria used to assess applications for a medical clearance. The Committee was advised that the Department was taking steps to clarify the situation and that it believed that the regulations needed to give ‘ greater and more specific guidance to the medical officers and also greater transparency to the interested community of users ’ ,6

Sheltered Workshops

Concern was raised about a statement made at a CIDA7 conference that the Government was no longer interested in the long-term funding of sheltered workshops. The Committee was advised that the Government had no intention to cease funding of these organisations and that, although funding was the same as in previous years (approximately $100 million), the money was to be used to improve the quality of service rather than extend workshop operations.

4. Hansard, 24 May 1994, pp.C75-6.

5. Hansard, 25 May 1994, pp.C214-18.

6. ibid, p.C216.

7. Council of Intellectual Disability Agencies.

8 6

The Committee was also advised that a set of standards had been developed in consultation with the industry, and the Government is assisting organisations to m eet those standards.

The Committee was pleased to note that the previous Minister, the Hon Brian Howe, acknowledged a continuing need for a protected employment environment for some people.8

7. SOCIAL SECURITY PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Income Security for the Retired

Widow B pension

Discussion focussed on the phasing out of this pension which has forced people on to the Job Search allowance or Newstart allowance. The Committee is concerned that women over 40 years of age who have never been in paid employment are now required to undertake job training at a time when it would

be difficult for them to obtain a job.

The Committee was advised that the decision to phase out the pension was taken at a time when the labour market was buoyant and it was felt women would be able to easily obtain employment. However, the Committee was further advised that due to changes in the labour m arket the Minister was reviewing the impact

on women who previously would have been eligible for the Widow B pension.9 The Committee supports this initiative.

Program 6 — Corporate and Other Services

Security o f Social Security Field Identification Cards

Discussion focussed on the security of Departm ental identification cards and the Departm ent's authority to enter people's homes.

Departm ental officers' attention was directed to a recent newspaper article which alleged people had used Social Security identification cards to enter the homes of elderly people with a possible intention of robbing them. The Committee was advised that the identification cards were an accountable item and recent compliance audits found the rate of return high, although there was some loss of cards. The Committee was further advised that the cards did not give Social Security officers authority to enter a person's home.

8. Hansard, 25 May 1994, pp.C219-C220.

9. ib id , pp.C234-5.

Concern was expressed that elderly people were not aware that Social Security officers could not enter their homes. The Committee was advised that this information was placed in the A ge Pension News but officers agreed that in future issues a replica of the card would be produced along with the usual article.10

Productivity Agreement

Discussion focussed on the progress of the agreement and the productivity savings which had been identified. The Committee was advised that the agreement would finish at the end of 1994 and that the two per cent productivity saving had not been achieved at the time of the budget hearings. The Committee was further advised that the savings would be difficult to achieve in the time remaining in the agreement and that savings would probably have to be made in running costs to pay the two per cent in the next financial year.

The Committee noted that the D epartm ent was in the process of negotiating a new agreement.

The Committee is concerned that a new agreement is being negotiated when the two per cent supplementation under the current agreement, possibly, will be made up by reductions in some other areas which could affect the provision of services.11

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

10. Hansard, 25 May 1994, C229-31.

11. ibid; pp.C238-42.

8 8

DISSENTING REPORT

8 9

D ISSENTING REPORT

Officers A tten din g - Gender Balance

We should be greatly concerned if gender was a p rim ary consideration for determ ining which officers appear before estim ates committees.

The exclusive criteria of officers attending before estim ates ought to be th a t they have the appropriate duties and responsibilities which give them the necessary ability to provide inform ation and answ ers to m em bers of the estim ates committees.

Senator NOEL CRICHTON-BROWNE

/ Senator GRANT TAMBLING

Senator JO H N HERRON

Senator BOB WOODS

Senator MICHAEL BAUME

Senator KAY PATTERSON

.90

MINUTES O F PROCEEDINGS

9 1

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 18 of 37th Parliament Thursday, 12 May 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session outside the Senate Chamber at 1.47 pm.

2. DEPARTMENTAL ORDER FO R BUDGET HEARINGS: The Committee agreed to hear Departments in the following order of allocation:

Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories Department of Human Services and Health Department of Social Security.

3. COMMENCEMENT AND ADJOURNM ENT TIMES FO R HEARINGS: The Committee agreed that the commencement time for the hearings on both 24 and 25 May 1994 would be 9.00 am. The evening adjournment would be no later than 11.00 pm unless the Committee considered that it was possible to complete the examination of a Department by sitting shortly beyond this time.

4. RESCHEDULING OF PROPOSED SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS: The Committee considered a request by the Department of Human Services and Health to reschedule the proposed hearing date of 21 June 1994 to 23 June 1994 due to a longstanding commitment of the Department's Executive. The Committee agreed that it was not possible to m eet the Department's request because of the scheduling of other Estimates Committees on that day.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.59 pm.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds, Denman, West, Herron, Newman, Patterson, Tambling, Woods.

CONF""” '™

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

9 2

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 19 of 37th Parliament Tuesday, 24 May 1994

PUBLIC M EETING: The Committee met in public session at 9.12 am in Senate Com mittee Room 2S3. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95 - ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO

In attendance — Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by the following D epartm ental officers:

Executive * M r David Buckingham, Acting Secretary

Program 1 — Environment Environment Strategies Directorate M r Ian Carruthers, Acting Deputy Executive Director * D r Andy Turner, Assistant Secretary, Environment Coordination and Liaison

Branch Ms Nicola Pain, Assistant Secretary, Strategic and Economic Analysis Branch * M r G erard Early, Assistant Secretary, Environment Information, Science and Reporting Branch

M r Gerry Morvell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Climate Change and Marine Branch D r Alison McCusker, Special Adviser, World Heritage Matters * D r Barry Reville, Assistant Secretary, Sustainable Land and Water Use Branch * D r W. Nicholls, World Heritage Unit Commonwealth Environment Protection Agency * M r Barry Carbon, Executive Director

M r Phil Hurst, Manager, Public Affairs and Education M r Les Bell, Manager, Corporate Activities Australian Heritage Commission * Ms Sharon Sullivan, Executive Director

* Ms Barbara Hingston, Deputy Executive Director * D r Robert Bruce, Director, Register Section Ms Anne-Marie Delahunt, Deputy Executive Director, Regional Assessment Branch

Australian Nature Conservation Agency * M r Michael Hill, Deputy Chief Executive Officer M r Roger Cobcroft, Finance Director

9 3

Great Barrier R eef Marine Park Authority * Dr Wendy Craik, Executive Officer * Mr Ross Hebblewhite, Director, Administration Program 2 - Antarctic

* Mr Rex Moncur, Director, Antarctic Division Program 3 — Meteorology * Dr Doug Gauntlett, Acting Director of Meteorology, Bureau of Meteorology Program 4 - Sport and Recreation

* Mr Graham Dempster, Executive Director, Office of Sport and Recreation Australian Sports Commission * Mr Jim Ferguson, Executive Director Mr Geoff Strang, Director, Sports Management

Mr Bob Hobson, Director, Corporate Management Australian Sports Drug Agency * Mr Steve Haynes, Chief Executive * Ms Helen Quiggin, Financial Adviser Program 5 — Territories

* Mr Vivan Mawhinney, Acting Executive Director, Territories Office Program 6 — Corporate Services Coordination and Public Affairs Mr David Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Management Division * Mr Andrew McKinlay, Assistant Secretary, Coordination Branch

Department of Finance — Ms Cathy McKay, Finance Officer Mr Mark McGovern, Finance Officer

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Chairperson called the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for these programs is contained in the particulars of proposed expenditure documents.

Program 1 — Environment Program 2 — Antarctic Program 3 — Meteorology Program 4 — Sport and Recreation Program 5 — Territories

Program 6 was also called but there were no questions.

The Committee received the following documents:

* list of Department's grants programs

* Australian Sports Drug Agency Resource Table.

At 6.21 pm the examination of the Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio was concluded.

9 4

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95 - HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

The Committee commenced examination of matters relating to the Human Services and Health Portfolio at 7.37 pm.

In attendance - Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by the following Departmental officers:

Executive * M r Tony Cole, Secretary * D r Tony Adams, Chief Medical Adviser * M r Alan Bansemer, Deputy Secretary

Ms Mary Mumane, Deputy Secretary * Mr Mick Roche, Deputy Secretary Health Advancement * D r John Loy, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Mary Scott, Principal Adviser, Public and Environmental Health M r Jim Kennedy, Director, Health Development Section Ms Fran Parker, Director, Breast Cancer Screening Section National Health and Medical Research Council * D r Gavin Frost, Senior Medical Adviser, AIDS/Communicable Diseases

Branch National Food Authority M r Graham Peachey, Executive Director * D r Gordon Burch, Scientific Director

Ms Christine Fuso, Director, Corporate Services Therapeutic Goods Administration * D r Geoffrey Vaughan, National Manager * Dr Malcolm Wright, Head, Drug Evaluation Branch Health Insurance Commission

M r Lawrie Willett, Managing Director M r Malcolm Murray, General Manager, Finance and Planning Dr John Nearhos, General Manager, Professional Review D r Peter Taylor, Medical Director, Professional Review

M r Ralph Watzlaff, Assistant Medical Director, Professional Review Dr Ron Tomlins, Assistant Medical Director, Professional Review Mr Ken Hazell, General Manager, Government Programs M r Warren Turk, Manager, Pharmaceutical Benefits

Ms Donna Moody, Acting Manager, Accounting Mr David Hancock, Manager, Management Accounting Health Care Access Mr Ian McNeil, First Assistant Secretary

M r Brian Candler, Assistant Secretary, Health Services Ms Judy Blazow, Assistant Secretary, Health Care Evaluation and Development * Mr David Graham, Assistant Secretary, Pharmaceutical Benefits

Dr Vin McLoughlin, Assistant Secretary, General Practice

9 5

Mr Chris Sheedy, Acting Assistant Secretary, Hospitals Mr Warren Talbot, Acting Assistant Secretary, Casemix Ms Fiona Howarth, Assistant Secretary, Dental Health Branch Mr Peter Callanan, Director, Health Insurance Section Family and Children's Services

Mr Barry Wight, First Assistant Secretary Ms Sue Kerr, Assistant Secretary, Administration and Development Branch Mr Mark Johnson, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Planning Branch Ms Gail Coxon, Director, Resource Management Section Ms Marion Dunlop, Assistant Secretary, Family Services Branch Australian Institute o f Family Studies

Ms Marie Coleman, Acting Director A ged and Community Care Mr Robert Griew, First Assistant Secretary, Aged and Community Care

Division Ms Lisa Paul, Assistant Secretary, Programs and Planning Branch M r Roger Barson, A/g Assistant Secretary, Office of the Aged M r Bruce Ryan, A/g Assistant Secretary, Aged Care Policy and Evaluation

Branch Ms Elayne Crnkovic, Assistant Director, Information, Co-ordination and Export Section Disability Programs

Mr Brian Corcoran, First Assistant Secretary M r Philip Bert, General Manager, Australian Hearing Services M r Warren Butler, Operations Manager, Australian Hearing Services Mr Peter Nolan, Director, Policy and Liaison Section, Australian Hearing Services M r Tony Judge, Director, Information Technology and Commercial Services Section, Australian Hearing Services

Mr Brian Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service Ms Janet Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch M r Ian Haupt, Assistant Secretary, Australian Government Health Service D r Kathy King, Director, Medical Officer, Migrant Medical Clearance Unit Mr Peter Fisher, Assistant Secretary, Disability Workforce Participation Branch Policy Development Division

Dr Jeff Harmer, First Assistant Secretary Ms Joan Lipscombe, Assistant Secretary, Workforce Policy Branch Ms Tricia Searson, Assistant Secretary, Mental Health Branch Ms Fiona Tito, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Reviews Branch Ms Jane Halton, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Development Branch Corporate Direction and Support

Ms Margaret Ford, First Assistant Secretary Mr Nick Mersiades, Principal Adviser, Budget Management Australian Institute o f Health and Welfare Dr Bruce Armstrong, Director Information Services

Mr Bob Wells, Assistant Secretary, Public Affairs Branch

9f>

D epartm ent of Finance -Ms Lily Viertmann, Senior Finance Officer Ms Cheryl Hammond, Chief Finance Officer Ms Deanna Aubrey, Senior Finance Officer

Mr John Templeman, Chief Finance Officer Ms Sue Williamson, Finance Officer

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Chairperson called the following program of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for this program is contained in the particulars of proposed expenditure documents.

Program 1 — Health Advancement

The Committee received the following documents:

• Corrigendum to the Department's Portfolio Budget Measures Statement 1994-95

• Clinical Trial Notification No. 93-434

• Clinical Trial Notification No. 94-138

4. ADJOURNM ENT: The Committee suspended its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Human Services and Health Portfolio and adjourned at 10.23 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Baume, Crichton-Browne, Denman, Macdonald, Patterson, Tambling, West, and Woods.

Senators Calvert and Harradine also attended.

An apology was received from Senator Newman.

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

9 7

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 20 of 37th Parliament Wednesday, 25 May 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 9.06 am in Senate Committee Room 2S3. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS O F PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95 - HUM AN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

The Committee resumed its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Hum an Services and Health Portfolio.

In attendance — Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by the following Departmental officers:

Executive * Mr Tony Cole, Secretary Dr Tony Adams, Chief Medical Adviser M r Alan Bansemer, Deputy Secretary

* Ms Mary Mumane, Deputy Secretary * Mr Mick Roche, Deputy Secretary Health Advancement * Dr John Loy, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Mary Scott, Principal Adviser, Public and Environmental Health Mr Jim Kennedy, Director, Health Development Section Ms Fran Parker, Director, Breast Cancer Screening Section National Health and Medical Research Council

* D r Gavin Frost, Senior Medical Adviser, AIDS/Communicable Diseases Branch National Food Authority Mr Graham Peachey, Executive Director

Dr Gordon Burch, Scientific Director Ms Christine Fuso, Director, Corporate Services Therapeutic Goods Administration * Dr Geoffrey Vaughan, National Manager

* Dr Malcolm Wright, Head, Drug Evaluation Branch Health Insurance Commission Mr Lawrie Willett, Managing Director ‘ M r Malcolm Murray, General Manager, Finance and Planning * Dr John Nearhos, General Manager, Professional Review

Dr Peter Taylor, Medical Director, Professional Review Mr Ralph Watzlaff, Assistant Medical Director, Professional Review Dr Ron Tomlins, Assistant Medical Director, Professional Review

9 8

* Mr Ken Hazell, General Manager, Government Programs Mr W arren Turk, Manager, Pharmaceutical Benefits Ms Donna Moody, Acting Manager, Accounting Mr David Hancock, Manager, Management Accounting

Health Care Access * M r Ian McNeil, First Assistant Secretary Mr Brian Candler, Assistant Secretary, Health Services Ms Judy Blazow, Assistant Secretary, Health Care Evaluation and

Development * Mr David Graham, Assistant Secretary, Pharmaceutical Benefits * D r Yin McLoughlin, Assistant Secretary, General Practice * Mr Chris Sheedy, Acting Assistant Secretary, Hospitals

Mr W arren Talbot, Acting Assistant Secretary, Casemix Ms Fiona Howarth, Assistant Secretary, Dental Health Branch Mr Peter Callanan, Director, Health Insurance Section Family and Children's Services * Mr Barry Wight, First Assistant Secretary Ms Sue Kerr, Assistant Secretary, Administration and Development Branch * Mr M ark Johnson, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Development Branch

Ms Gail Coxon, Director, Resource Management Section Ms Marion Dunlop, Assistant Secretary, Family Services Branch Australian Institute o f Family Studies Ms M arie Coleman, Acting Director A ged and Community Care

* Mr Robert Griew, First Assistant Secretary, Aged and Community Care Division Ms Lisa Paul, Assistant Secretary, Programs and Planning Branch Mr Roger Barson, A/g Assistant Secretary, Office of the Aged Mr Bruce Ryan, A/g Assistant Secretary, Aged Care Policy and Evaluation Branch Ms Elayne Crnkovic, Assistant Director, Information, Co-ordination and Export

Section Disability Programs * Mr Brian Corcoran, First Assistant Secretary Mr Philip Bert, General Manager, Australian Hearing Services

Mr W arren Butler, Operations Manager, Australian Hearing Services Mr Peter Nolan, Director, Policy and Liaison Section, Australian Hearing Services Mr Tony Judge, Director, Information Technology and Commercial Services

Section, Australian Hearing Services * Mr Brian Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service Ms Janet Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch

* Mr Ian Haupt, Assistant Secretary, Australian Government Health Service * D r Kathy King, Director, Medical Officer, Migrant Medical Clearance Unit M r Peter Fisher, Assistant Secretary, Disability Workforce Participation Branch

9 9

Policy Development Division Dr Jeff Harmer, First Assistant Secretary Ms Joan Lipscombe, Assistant Secretary, Workforce Policy Branch Ms Tricia Searson, Assistant Secretary, Mental Health Branch Ms Fiona Tito, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Reviews Branch Ms Jane Halton, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Development Branch Corporate Direction and Support

Ms M argaret Ford, First Assistant Secretary Mr Nick Mersiades, Principal Adviser, Budget Management Australian Institute o f Health and Welfare D r Bruce Armstrong, Director Information Services

Mr Bob Wells, Assistant Secretary, Public Affairs Branch D epartm ent of Finance — Ms Lily Viertmann, Senior Finance Officer Ms Cheryl Hammond, Chief Finance Officer

Ms Deanna Aubrey, Senior Finance Officer Mr John Templeman, Chief Finance Officer Ms Sue Williamson, Finance Officer

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Chairperson called the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for these programs is contained in the particulars of proposed additional expenditure documents.

Program 1 — Health Advancement Program 2 — Health Care Access Program 3 — Family and Children's Services Program 4 - Aged Care Program 5 — Disability Programs

Program 6 was also called but there were no questions.

The Committee received the following documents:

• Minister for Family Services Minute to Dr G Vaughan re RU486

• Discussion paper re proposed new arrangements for implementing the payment of childcare assistance on the basis of used hours rather than booked hours for long day care centres

• Discussion paper re care for sick children program

• Groups consulted on Care for Sick Children program

At 4.17 pm the examination of the Human Services and Health Portfolio was concluded.

1 0 0

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-95 - SOCIAL SECURITY PORTFOLIO

The Committee commenced examination of matters relating to the Social Security Portfolio at 4.48 pm. In attendance - Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by the following Departmental officers:

* M r A. Blunn, Secretary * M r J. Bowdler, Deputy Secretary, Programs * M r B. Godfrey, Deputy Secretary, Corporate * Mr J. Humphreys, National Manager, Operations

Mr P. Marrs, First Assistant Secretary, Area Coordination Division Mr M. Goldstein, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Mr D. Stanton, First Assistant Secretary, Family Programs Division M r J. Wadeson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division * M r I. Carnell, First Assistant Secretary, Security, Fraud and Control Division

* Ms L. Briggs, First Assistant Secretary, Social Policy Division Mr V. Rogers, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Division * M r D. Tune, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Program Delivery Division Mr M. Sassella, Principal Adviser, Legal Services Group

M r G. Leeper, Assistant Secretary, Budget Co-ordination and Corporate Planning M r A. Phelan, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch Ms M. Kilpatrick, Assistant Secretary, Family Program Branch

Ms C. Zanetti, Assistant Secretary, Sole Parent Program Branch M r J. Powlay, Assistant Secretary, Performance and Change Management Branch * Mr T. Field, Assistant Secretary, Labour Force Program Branch * Ms J. Davidson, Assistant Secretary, Labour Market and Disability Policy

Branch Mr T. Schell, Assistant Secretary, Disability Program Branch Mr H. Jongen, Assistant Secretary, Information and Public Relations Branch Ms J. Raymond, Assistant Secretary, Retirement Incomes Policy and

Economic Analysis

Departm ent of Finance — Social Security Division Mr Brian Stewart, Assistant Secretary, Social Welfare Branch Ms Alice Dobes, Chief Finance Officer, Unemployment and Running Costs Section Mr Iain Bramley, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security Section

Ms Jennifer Nicholas, Finance Officer, Social Security Section

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Chairperson called the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for this program is contained in the particulars of proposed expenditure documents.

Program 1 - Income Security for the Retired Program 2 — Income Security for People with Disabilities and the Sick Program 3 — Income Security for the Unemployed Program 4 - Income Security for Families with Children Program 5 — Provisions for Special Circumstances Program 6 — Corporate and O ther Services

The Committee received the following document:

• Corrigendum to the Department's Portfolio Budget Measures Statements 1994-95.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Social Security Portfolio.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.33 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Denman, Herron, Patterson, Tambling, West, and Woods.

Senator Harradine also attended.

An apology was received from Senator Newman.

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

1 0 2

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 21 of 37th Parliament Wednesday, 1 June 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The meeting began at 7.27 pm. At 7.34 pm the Senate adjourned, and on the motion of Senator West the Committee resolved that items 2 to 4, previously considered by the Committee, be treated as resolutions by the Committee.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of meetings held on 12, 24 and 25 May 1994 (Nos 18 to 20) were confirmed on the motion of Senator Denman.

3. ADOPTION OF REPORT: The Committee resolved, on the motion of Senator West, that the Chair's draft report be adopted as the report of the Committee, subject to the inclusion of amendments agreed to by the Committee.

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING: The Committee agreed to the following timetable.

10 June 1994

17 June 1994

21 June 1994

provision of written answers by departments

notification by Senators of matters to be raised at supplementary hearing

supplementary hearing.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 7.35 pm.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds, Crichton-Browne, Denman, Herron, Patterson, Tambling, West, and Woods.

>

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

j!ftHik-rd JLj' Senator the H on Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

1 0 3

APPENDIX 1

Table of Contents of Hansard transcripts of evidence

Tuesday, 24 May 1994

Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio Human Services and Health Portfolio

Wednesday, 25 May 1994

Human Services and Health Portfolio Social Security Portfolio

1 0 4

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

TABLE OF CONTENTS TO H AN SARD

Tuesday, 24 May 1994

Page

ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Environment Sub-program 1.1 — Environment S trategies.......................................................... C3-27

Sub-program 1.2 - Environment Protection .............................................. C24, 27-46

Sub-program 1.3 — Australian Nature Conservation Agency ........................ C47-59 Sub-program 1.4 — Australian Nature Conservation Agency ................. C48, 52-59 Sub-program 1.5 — Great Barrier Reef Marine Park A u th o rity ................... C60-70

Program 2 — Antarctic Sub-program 2.2 — Expeditions .......................................................................... C72-75

Program 3 — Meteorology Sub-program 3.3 - W eather Services ................................................................. C71-72

Sub-program 3.8 — Corporate Activities ................................................................. C71

Program 4 — Sport and Recreation Sub-program 4.1 - Policy and Program S u p p o r t............................................ C75-77

Sub-program 4.3 — Australian Sports Com m ission.......................................... C77-84

Sub-program 4.4 — Australian Sports Drug A g en cy ....................................... C85-90

Program 5 — Territories Sub-program 5.2 - Christmas Isla n d ................................................................. C92-100

Sub-program 5.3 — Cocos (Keeling) Islands ......................................... C91-92, 94-95

Sub-program 5.4 - Norfolk Island ................................................................... C94, 100

Sub-program 5.5 - Jervis B a y ............................................................................... C90-91

HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Health Advancement Sub-program 1.1 — Drug Abuse R ed u ctio n .................................................. C102-110

Sub-program 1.2 — Environmental Health S tandards................................. C110-112

Sub-program 1.3 — Health Promotion and Disease Prevention .............. C l 12-122 Sub-program 1.4 — Health R esearch .............................................................. C122-130

Sub-program 1.5 — Therapeutic G o o d s......................................................... C130-133

1 0 5

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

TABLE OF CONTENTS TO H AN SARD

Wednesday, 25 May 1994

Page

HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Health Advancement Sub-program 1.3 — Health Promotion and Disease Prevention ................. C153-54 Sub-program 1.5 — Therapeutic G o o d s .................................... C153, 166-180, 225-26

Program 2 — Health Care Access Sub-program 2.1 — Medicare Benefits .............................................. C l54-66, 180-82

Sub-program 2.2 — Pharmaceutical benefits .................................................. C183-86

Sub-program 2.3 — Hospitals, Insurance and Other Health Services . . . 086-190 Sub-program 2.4 — Home and Community Care for People needing Post-Acute or Palliative Care .......................... 0 9 0 -9 1 , 197-98

Program 3 — Family and Children's Services Sub-program 3.1 — Children's Services ............................................................ 0 9 1 -9 6

Program 4 — Aged Care Sub-program 4.1 — A ssessm ent.......................................................................... 0 9 6 -9 7

Sub-program 4.2 — Home and Community Care for the A g e d ................. 098-200 Sub-program 4.3 — Quality of Residential C a r e ............................................. C200-14

Program 5 — Disability Programs Sub-program 5.1 — Community Access and Participation............................. C219-22

Sub-program 5.2 — Support for Individuals..................................................... C223-25

Sub-program 5.4 — R ehabilitation..................................................................... C223-25

Sub-program 5.5 — Australian Government Health S e rv ic e ........................ C214-18

1 0 6

SOCIAL SECURITY PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Income Security for the Retired Sub-program 1.1 - Age P e n sio n ................................................................ C228-29, 237

Sub-program 1.2 — Wife Pension .............................................................................C232

Program 2 — Income Security for People with Disabilities and the Sick Sub-program 2.1 - Disability Support Pension ...................................... C236-38, 243

Program 3 — Income Security for the Unemployed Sub-program 3.1 — Job Search A llow ance......................................... C232-33, 242-43

Sub-program 3.2.1 — Newstart A llow ance....................................................... C232-33

Program 4 — Income Security for Families with Children Sub-program 4.2 — Home Child Care Allowance ...................................... C l94, 196

Program 5 — Provisions for Special Circumstances Sub-program 5.1 — Special B e n e fit..................................................... C226-28, 233-34

Sub-program 5.2 — Assistance to Widowed Persons .................................... C234-36

Program 6 — Corporate and Other Services Sub-program 6.1 - Corporate Management .............................C229-32, 242, 243-45

Sub-program 6.2.1 — Work Environment Management ................................ C238-42

Sub-program 6.2.2 — Computing Infrastructure.............................................. C245-47

1 0 7

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

Minutes of Meeting

No. 22 of 21 June 1994

1 0 9

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 22 of 37th Parliament Tuesday, 21 June 1994

1. PUBLIC M EETING: The Committee m et in public session at 12.16 pm in Senate Committee Room 2S3 for a supplementary hearing to examine matters of which Senators had given notice (copy attached) relating to the proposed expenditure 1994-95 for the Environment, Sport and Territories, Hum an Services and Health, and Social Security Portfolios. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO: Senator John Faulkner, Minister for the Environment, Sport and Territories, accompanied by the following D epartm ental officers responded to questions relating to m atters of which notice had been given:

Executive * M r D. Buckingham, Executive Director

Program 1 — Environment Environment Strategies Directorate

D r A. Turner, Assistant Secretary, Environment Coordination and Liaison Branch Ms N. Pain, Assistant Secretary, Strategic and Economic Analysis Branch * M r G. Early, Assistant Secretary, Environment Information Science and Reporting Branch M r G. Morvell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Climate Change and M arine Branch D r A. McCusker, Special Adviser, W orld Heritage Matters * Dr B. Reville, Assistant Secretary, Sustainable Land and W ater Use Branch

Commonwealth Environment Protection Agency

* M r B. Carbon, Executive Director * M r C. Griffiths, Deputy Director * M r L. Bell, Manager, Finance and Systems

Australian Heritage Commission

Dr. R. Purdie, Deputy Executive Director, Identification and Conservation Branch Ms B. Hingston, Deputy Executive Director, Corporate and Communications Branch Dr R. Bruce, Director, Register Section Ms A. Delahunt, Deputy Executive Director, Regional Assessment Branch

1 1 0

Great Barrier R e e f Marine Park Authority

* Professor G. Kelleher, Chairman

Program 2 — Antarctic

* M r J. Sayers, Assistant Director, Expeditions Operations Branch

Program 4 - Sport and Recreation

* M r G. Dempster, Executive Director

Program 5 — Territories

* Mr G. Dempster, Executive Director

Departmental

* M r D. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate M anagement Division M r A. McKinlay, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination Branch

D epartm ent of Finance:

Ms Kathleen Mackie, Finance officer Ms Alex Rankin, Finance officer

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Committee received the following documents:

• Intergovernmental Agreement on the Environment, May 1992

• Submission from the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission to the Queensland Co-ordinator General dated 23 May 1994

• Letter dated 1 June 1994 from the Queensland Departm ent of Family Services and Aboriginal and Islander Affairs to the Queensland Co-ordinator G eneral re Port Hinchinbrook R esort — Oyster Point

• List of organisations offered grants in 1991-92 (including state names) through the Community Cultural, Recreation and sporting Facilities Program yet to make a claim for Commonwealth funds (as at 27 May 1994)

Sitting was suspended from 1.27 pm to 2.00 pm and 6.31 pm to 8.09 pm. The Com mittee adjourned at 9.18 pm the examination of the Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio was concluded.

I l l

3. HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO: Senator John Faulkner, Minister for the Environment, Sport and Territories, accompanied by the following Departm ental officers responded to questions relating to matters of which notice had been given:

Executive * Mr Tony Cole, Secretary * D r Tony Adams, Chief Medical Adviser Ms M argaret Ford, Acting Deputy Secretary

Health Advancement Division

* Dr John Loy, First Assistant Secretary Ms Mary Scott, Principal Adviser, Public and Environmental Health Branch M r Jim Kennedy, H ealth Development Section

National Food Authority

* Ms Gae Pincus, Chairperson Mr Graham Peachey, Executive Director

Therapeutic Goods Administration

* D r Geoffrey Vaughan, National M anager Dr Susan Hill

Health Care Access Division

* M r Ian McNeil, First Assistant Secretary M r Alan Stevens, Acting Assistant Secretary, Pharmaceutical Benefits Branch * D r Vin McLoughlin, Assistant Secretary, General Practice, D r John Primrose, M edicare Service Adviser, Pharmaceutical Benefits

Branch

* Mr Brian Candler, Assistant Secretary, Health Services * Ms Dallas Ariotti, Principal Adviser, Private Insurance Task Force M r Chris Sheedy, Acting Assistant Secretary, Hospitals Branch

Health Insurance Commission

Mr David Cooper, Acting General Manager, Finance and Planning Division Mr Ken Hazel], G eneral Manager, Government Programs Division Dr John Nearhos, G eneral Manager, Professional Review Division M r W arren Turk, Manager, Pharmaceutical Benefits Branch Ms Donna Moody, Acting Manager, Accounting Branch Mr David Pedlar, Manager, M edicare Benefits, Government Programs Division M r Graham Mynott, Manager, Childcare, Government Programs Division ' D r Peter Taylor, Assistant Medical Director, Professional Review Division

Mr Pius Lam, Acting Manager, M anagement Accounting Section

1 1 2

Family and Children's Services

* M r M ark Johnson, Assistant Secretary, Children's Services Strategic Planning Branch * Ms Sue Kerr, Assistant Secretary, Children's Services Administration and Developm ent Branch

M r David Marcus, Acting Assistant Secretary, Family Services

Australian Institute o f Family Studies

* Ms M arie Coleman, Acting Director

A ged and Community Care Division

* M r Robert Griew, First Assistant Secretary * M r Roger Barson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office for the Aged Ms Lisa Paul, Assistant Secretary, Program and Planning Branch

Disability Programs

M r Brian Corcoran, First Assistant Secretary Ms Janet Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch M r Peter Fisher, Assistant Secretary, Disability Workforce Participation Branch

Ms Anne McNeill, Director, Program Administration Section,

Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service M r Peter Ritchie, Director, Supported Wages M anagement Section, Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service M r Ian Haupt, Assistant Secretary, Australian Government Health Service M r Peter Nolan, Director, Policy and Liaison Unit, Australian Hearing Services

Policy Developm ent Division

D r Jeff Harmer, First Assistant Secretary Ms Tricia Searson, Acting Senior Adviser, Mental Health Ms Joan Lipscombe, Assistant Secretary, Workforce Policy Branch

Corporate Services Division

M r Barry Lee, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division M r James Watson, Acting Principal Adviser, Budget M anagement Branch

1 1 3

D epartm ent of Finance:

Ms Cheryl Hammond M r Ivan Rac Mr John Ireson M r John Templeman Mr John Davis

Officers who were called to the table are identified by an asterisk.

The Committee received the following documents:

• PHLAC data re private health insurance in relation to participation rates and num ber of people against basic and supplementary tables on a state by state basis

4. SOCIAL SECU RITY PORTFOLIO: Senators who had given notice of matters they wished to examine agreed to place all their questions on notice because of time constraints imposed by the lengthy examination of the Environment, Sport and Territories portfolio. The Minister and officers of the D epartm ent of Social Security were therefore not required to appear before the Committee.

5. ADJOURNM ENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.36 am (22 June).

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Baume, Denman, Ian Macdonald, Herron, Patterson, Tambling, West, and Woods. Senators Boswell, Calvert, Coulter, H arradine and Woodley also attended.

C ERTIFIED CORRECT:

Senator the Hon M argaret Reynolds (Chair)

1 1 4

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING, TUESDAY, 21 JUNE 1994, 2S3, at adjournment of the Senate (approximately 11.30 am)

Senator Matters to be raised

DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT. SPORT AND TERRITORIES

Reynolds PRO GRAM 1 — Environment

• Hinchinbrook Channel — World Heritage values

Macdonald, Ian Sub-program 1.1 — Environment Strategies • D aintree planning package • W et Tropics M anagement Authority • Skyrail project

• CYPLUS • Starcke property

Reynolds Sub-program 1.1

• Wet Tropics

— Aboriginal rangers — future projects

Baume Sub-program 1.2 — Environment Protection

• lead content of petrol

Coulter Sub-program 1.2

• CEPA's findings re bounty on recycled paper products

Macdonald Sub-program 1.2

• Shoalwater Bay Commission Inquiry

Macdonald Sub-program 1.3 — Australian Heritage Commission

Reynolds Sub-program 1.5 — Great Barrier R eef Marine Park Authority • damage to Coral Reefs, Whitsundays • involvement of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people

Macdonald Sub-program 1.5

• R eef tax

• Coral collection • funding for G reat Barrier Reef Wonderland • Aboriginal land claims on the Barrier Reef

PRO GRAM 2 — Antarctic

Calvert Sub-program 2.2 — Expeditions

• charter of the Aurora Australis & further vessels

Baume PROGRAM 4 — Sport and Recreation

• facilities program

1 1 5

PROGRAM 5 — Territories

Macdonald

Tambling

Macdonald

Sub-program 5.2 — Christmas Island

Sub-program 5.3 — Cocos (Keeling) Islands • Cocos Island Co-operative Audit

Sub-program 5.3

1 1 6

D EPA R TM EN T O F HUM AN SERVICES AND HEALTH

Reynolds PROGRAM 1 — Health Advancement • Aboriginal health

H arradine Program 1

Woods Sub-program 1.2 — Environmental Health Standards

H erron Sub-program 1.3 — Health promotion and disease prevention

H erron Sub-program 1.4 — Health Research

• NH&M RC

Woods Sub-program 1.4

Lees Sub-program 1.4

• conductive education

Harradine Sub-program 1.5 — Therapeutic Goods

PROGRAM 2 — Health Care Access

H erron Sub-program 2.1 — Medicare Benefits

Herron Sub-program 2.2 — Pharmaceutical Benefits

Patterson Sub-program 2.2

Woods Sub-program 2.2

H erron Sub-program 2.3 - Hospitals, Insurance and

Other Health Services

Woods Sub-program 2.3

Reynolds Sub-program 2.3

• mental health

PROGRAM 3 — Family and Children's Services

Patterson Sub-program 3.1 — Children's Services

Herron Sub-program 3.1

Boswell Sub-program 3.1

H erron Sub-program 3.2 — Family Services

Patterson

PROGRAM 4 - Aged Care • Nursing home funding

Woods Sub-program 4.1 — Assessment

117

DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY

Patterson PRO G RA M 1 - Income Security for the Retired

Patterson Sub-program 1.1 — A ge Pension

Woods PRO G R A M 2 — Income Security for People with Disabilities

and the Sick

• carer's pension

Patterson Program 2

Patterson Sub-program 2.2 — Wife Pension

Patterson PRO G R A M 3 — Income Security for the Unemployed • unemployment benefits • Newstart compliance measures

Patterson

PRO G R A M 4 — Income Security for Families with Children

Sub-program 4.1 - Family Payment

Patterson

PRO G RA M 5 — Provisions for Special Circumstances

Sub-program 5.2 — Assistance to Widowed Persons

Patterson

PRO GRAM 6 — Corporate and Other Services

Sub-program 6.1 — Corporate Management

Patterson Sub-program 6.3 - Agency Functions

1 1 8

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

JUN E 1994

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Page

Table of Contents i

Members of the Committee hi

R eport to the Senate 1

Minutes of Meetings 5

Table of Contents for Hansard of Public Hearings 13

1 2 0

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Chair: Senator John Coates (Tasmania)

Members: Senator Brian Gibson

Senator Shayne Murphy Senator Belinda Neal Senator Warwick Parer Senator Jim Short

(Tasmania) (Tasmania) (New South Wales) (Queensland) (Victoria)

Senators Grant Chapman (South Australia) and Alan Ferguson (South Australia) replaced Senators Short and Parer for the consideration of the Estimates for the Industry, Science and Technology Portfolio.

Secretary: Mr Frank Nugent

Staff: Ms Jacquie Hawkins

Ms Ann Settin

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Estimates Committee D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

INTRODUCTION

1. On 12 May 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee the particulars of

proposed expenditure for 1994-95 in relation to the following portfolios:

- Industry Science and Technology - Treasury

- Finance

2. These expenditures were considered by the Committee, which took into account the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements provided by each department and the information obtained through its hearings on 26 and 27 May 1994. The Committee heard evidence from the Minister for Industry, Science and Technology (Senator Peter Cook), the Minister for Small Business, Customs and Construction (Senator Chris Schacht) and from officers of the departm ents and agencies concerned. The Committee thanks them for their assistance.

3. The Committee tables for the information of the Senate copies of the Minutes of Proceedings, Hansard Transcripts of Evidence of Committee proceedings and a Table of Contents to the Hansards. The answers taken on notice at the Committee's hearings will be tabled in the Senate under separate cover in volumes entitled "Additional Information Provided During Estimates Committee D's Examination of Expenditure for 1994-95". Bulky bound documents not suitable for inclusion in the Additional Information which are furnished as part of answers will be listed in the Additional Volumes, tabled separately and will be available for viewing on request.

4. The Committee draws to the attention of the Senate the following matters of interest which were discussed during the consideration of estimates.

INDUSTRY, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY PORTFOLIO

5. The main areas of discussion on the Industry, Science and Technology Portfolio related to the previously proposed appointment of the former Comptroller-General of

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Customs, Mr Frank Kelly, as an adviser on customs harmonisation and APEC, the Ausindustry initiative aimed at providing a one-stop-shop for businesses seeking information about industry assistance schemes and funding for the Australian Institute of Marine Science in Townsville.

TREASURY PORTFOLIO

6. Within the Treasury Portfolio the main areas of discussion related to expected levels of business investment, the security and retention of census documents by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the impact of labour market programs on the ABS labour force figures, the investigation techniques of the Australian Taxation Office and its

initiatives to increase collections through improved compliance.

FINANCE PORTFOLIO

7. Examination of the estimates for the Finance portfolio included examination of the services provided by the Department on a cost recovery basis, the development of the Australian version of the GOSIP information technology standard and the progress of the Government's asset sales program. Senator Parer raised his concern that the Australian National Audit Office may not have sufficient funding to complete its 1993-94

and 1994-95 financial statement audit programs.

PRESENTATION OF PORTFOLIO BUDGET MEASURES STATEMENTS

8. These hearings were the first held under the new arrangements where the budget is brought down in May, prior to the completion of the previous financial year. The Portfolio Budget Measures Statements provided to senators concentrated on budget initiatives and significant changes in appropriations. The annual reports will in future

thoroughly report on the performance of departm ents and agencies in meeting their program objectives. As the Departm ent of Finance is responsible for budget coordination and presentation the Committee took the opportunity of discussing the content and presentation of the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements with officers from that

Department.

9. During the Committee's hearing several Senators raised concerns about the content of the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements and suggested that more information should be contained in the statements. Senator Coates also asked why the

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Appropriation Bills are not prepared on a program basis to avoid the inevitable difficulties in comparing what is in the bills with what is in the budget measures statements.

10. The Department of Finance indicated that it was seeking comments on the layout of the Portfolio Budget M easures Statements and that it had always been the intention of the Department to take on board any comments and seek to improve the presentation of the documents in future. D epartm ental officers undertook to address all of the issues raised by Committee members.

11. The Committee agrees that there was a need to streamline the various

accountability documents that were produced over the year to avoid excessive overlap and acknowledges that there was an attem pt to consult widely about what was expected of these documents. However, the Committee considers that the documentation provided was inadequate. The Estimates Committees are dealing with the main appropriation bills for the year, which include appropriations for every program in every department. Although more information will be available through the annual reports, that information will not be available until after the Senate has voted to approve the expenditure for the

coming year.

12. The Committee suggests that the following information be included in future Portfolio Budget Measures Statements, and that the name of these documents reflect the fact that they cover the whole of the Appropriation Bills.

There should be a page for each program, giving the explanations which had been provided in Program Performance Statements in recent years on the reasons for variations.

Program Resources Tables should show both the amount that was originally appropriated and the final appropriation for the current year, as well as the estimated outcome for the current year and the proposed outlays for the coming year.

Staffing levels should be shown for both the current and coming years.

More information should be provided on significant changes which are not budget measures, and the definition of "significant" be a variation of either $10m or 5%, rather than both.

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13. The Committee emphasises that provision of sufficient information about the Appropriation Bills should reduce the time taken up by questions during Estimates Committee hearings, as well as enhancing the accountability of departments and agencies.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE AND SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

14. The Standing Orders require the Committee, after considering the proposed expenditure and agreeing on its report to the Senate, to fix a date for the submission of any written answers or additional information and for the commencement of supplementary hearings.

15. The Committee has decided that written answers and additional information should be submitted by Friday, 10 June 1994. The Committee will hold a supplementary hearing, if required, on Thursday, 23 June 1994.

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF MEETINGS

FOR

Thursday 26 May 1994 Friday 27 May 1994 Wednesday 1 June 1994

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Minutes of Meeting No20 Thursday 26 May 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met privately from 10.07 am till 10.09 am in the Main Committee Room, Parliament House, Canberra.

The Secretary advised the Committee that the Senator Murphy had resigned as Chair of the Committee and called for nominations for the position of Chair. Senator Gibson nominated Senator Coates. There being no other nominations Senator Coates was

elected and took the Chair.

Senators Coates, Gibson and Neal were present during the private meeting.

2. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met publicly from 10.10 am till 9.41 pm in the Main Committee Room, Parliament House Canberra. The Committee examined particulars of proposed expenditure for the 1994-95 financial year.

Industry, Science and Technology Portfolio

Senator Peter Cook, Minister for Industry, Science and Technology, and Senator Chris Schacht, Minister for Small Business, Customs and Construction, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff appeared before the Committee to assist the Ministers.

Department o f Industry, Science and Technology-

Executive

M r Sandy Hollway, Secretary Mr Rob Trenberth, Deputy Secretary Dr John Bell, Deputy Secretary Trade, Investment Facilitation and Coordination Division Mr Neil Edwards, First Assistant Secretary, Trade, Investment Facilitation

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and Coordination Division M r Brian Meredyth, Assistant Secretary, Trade and Export Facilitation Branch, Trade, Investment Facilitation and Coordination Division Mr Peter McGuinness, A/g Director, Portfolio Coordination Section,

Ministerial and Portfolio Coordination Branch Bureau o f Industry Economics Dr Robert Hawkins, Director Office o f Auslndustry

M r Keith Croker, Acting First Assistant Secretary Ms Margaret Graham, Assistant Secretary, Business Improvement Programs Branch Science and Technology Division

Mr Colin Walters, Assistant Secretary, Cooperative Research Centres Branch Information Technology, Communications and Environment Industries Division D r Rod Badger, First Assistant Secretary Industry Policy Division

Mr John McLucas, Acting First Assistant Secretary Multi Function Polis Projects Mr John Be ever, Assistant Secretary, MFP Projects Australian Customs Service

Mr Lionel Woodward, Comptroller-General Mr Greg O'Connor, National Manager, Corporate Services Ms Virginia Streeton, National Manager, Inland Revenue Mr Peter English, Assistant National Manager, Inland Revenue

Mr Carl Ling, Rebate and Subsidy Audit, Inland Revenue Mr Phil Bums, National Manager, Coastwatch Mr Les Jones, National Manager, Passenger Processing Mr John Jeffrey, Manager, Executive Support

Ms Trish Bridge, Acting Manager, Resources Management Australian Institute o f Marine Science Dr Peter Moran, Acting Director Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation

Professor Helen Garnett, Acting Executive Director Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation Dr John Stocker, Chief Executive Mr Arthur Blewitt, Director, Corporate Services Export Finance and Insurance Corporation

M r Geoff Hickey, General Manager, Corporate Mr Slater Smith, General Manager, Finance

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Mr John Rumpler, General Manager, Insurance

Treasury Portfolio

Senator Peter Cook, Minister for Industry, Science and Technology, representing the Treasurer, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff appeared before the Committee to assist the Minister.

Department o f the Treasury M r Gary Potts, Deputy Secretary, Economic M r David Borthwick, Deputy Secretary, Financial and Structural Mr Rod Shogren, First Assistant Secretary, Fiscal Policy Division

Dr Ken Henry, First Assistant Secretary, Taxation Policy Division Mr Mike Callaghan, First Assistant Secretary, Economic Division Mr John Jepsen, Assistant Secretary, State and Local Government Finances Branch Dr Martin Parkinson, Assistant Secretaiy, Economic Conditions Branch Prices Surveillance Authority

Mr Trevor Lee, Director, Surveillance Mr John Gorin, Corporate Services Manager Trade Practices Commission Mr Hank Spier, General Manager Australian Bureau o f Statistics

Dr Richard Madden, Deputy Australian Statistician Mr Tim Skinner, First Assistant Statistician, Social and Labour Division Mr Ivan Bung, Assistant Statistician, Resource Management Branch Australian Taxation Office

Mr Richard Highfield, Second Commissioner Mr David Butler, Assistant Commissioner (Child Support Agency) Mr Chris Mobbs, Assistant Commissioner (Corporate Management Support) Mr Paul Duffus, Assistant Commissioner, People and Structures Branch Mr Phil Foster, First Assistant Commissioner (Revenue Collection) Ms Helen Silver, First Assistant Commissioner, Inquiry Division, Melbourne Mr Mike McGrath, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Services Branch, Canberra Mr Erik Beens, Director, Finance and Services Section, Canberra Insurance and Superannuation Commission

Mr George Pooley, Commissioner ISC

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Mr Bob Glading, Deputy Commissioner Life Insurance Mr Donald Duval, Australian Government Actuary Mr Roger Freney, First Assistant Commissioner Occupational

Superannuation Mr Graham Bums, Assistant Commissioner Corporate Services

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Industry, Science and Technology and Treasury Portfolios subject to the undertakings to provide additional written information to the Committee.

3. FURTHER HEARINGS

The Committee agreed to continue its hearings at 9.30 am on Friday, 27 May 1994.

4. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Coates (Chair), Ferguson, Gibson, Murphy, Neal, Parer and Short.

Senator Ian Macdonald also attended.

Confirmed

CHAIR

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Minutes of Meeting No.21 Friday 27 May 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met publicly from 9.37 am till 12.34 pm in the Main Committee Room, Parliament House Canberra. Senator Coates took the Chair.

The Committee examined particulars of proposed expenditure for the 1994-95 financial year.

Finance Portfolio

Senator Peter Cook, Minister for Industry, Science and Technology, representing the Minister for Finance, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff appeared before the Committee to assist the Minister.

Department o f Finance Mr Peter Barrett, Deputy Secretary M r Graeme Moffatt, Assistant Secretary, Finance Mr John Galloway, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Policy Branch Mr Ian McPhee, First Assistant Secretary, Financial Management Division Mr Stephen Bartos, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Improvement Branch Mr Maurie Kennedy, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Group Ms olga Fijalkowski, Assistant Secretary, Information Technology Branch Mr Graham Millar, Assistant Secretary, Retirements Benefits Branch M r David Lindsay, Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth Super Branch Mr Derek Russell, Director, Outcomes Reporting Group Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales A

Mr Peter Saunders, Chairman Mr Greg Feeney, Deputy Chairman Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales B Mr Kym Bills, Deputy Chairman

1 3 2

Commonwealth Superannuation Administration M r John McCullagh, Assistant Commissioner, Business Management Branch, Mr Ron Jackson, Director, Finance and Accounts Australian National Audit Office

M r Bill Nelson, National Business Director, Financial Audit Business Unit Ms Lucy Bitmead, Executive Director, Executive Support Branch M r Peter Johnson, Senior Director, Finance Property and Services M r Warren Cochrane, National Business Director, Performance Audit Business Unit

Mr Peter White, Group Director, Performance Audit Business Unit

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Finance Portfolio subject to the undertakings to provide additional written information to the Committee.

2. FUTURE MEETINGS

The Committee agreed to meet to consider its draft report at 9.25 am on Wednesday, 1 June 1994, in the Government Advisers Area outside the Senate Chamber.

3. ATTENDANCE:

Senators C oates (Chair), Gibson, Murphy, Neal, Parer and Short.

Confirmed

John Coates CHAIR

1 3 3

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF MEETING No. 22 Wednesday, 1 June 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met in deliberative session from 9.25 am till 9.27 am in the Government Advisers' Area outside the Senate Chamber. Senator Coates took the Chair.

2. MINUTES

The Committee's Minutes of Proceedings for Meetings No. 20 and 21 were confirmed. (Moved Senator Murphy)

3. CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT REPORT

The Committee considered the Chair's draft rep o rt The report, with one minor ammendment, was agreed to. (Moved Senator Neal)

4. SUBMISSION OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

The Committee agreed to fix Friday, 10 June 1994 as the day for the submission to the Committee of any written answers or additional information.(Moved Senator Murphy)

5. SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

The Committee agreed to hold a supplementary meeting of the Committee if required, on Thursday, 23 June 1994. (Moved Senator Murphy)

6. ATTENDANCE

Senators Coates (Chair), Gibson, Murphy, Neal, Parer.

Certified Correct

Chair

1 3 4

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

TABLE OF CONTENTS

FOR

HANSARD OF HEARINGS

FOR

Thursday, 26 May 1994 Friday, 27 May 1994

1 3 5

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D H ANSARD INDEX

Thursday, 26 May 1994

INDUSTRY, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

General

Chair's opening statement D1

Attenders D1

Order of programs D3

Program 1 - Industry, Science and Technology

Subprogram 1.1 - Policy and coordination D4

Subprogram 1.2 - Industry liaison D20, D44

Subprogram 1.3 - Enterprise development D22

Subprogram 1.4 - Science and technology D28

Program 8 - Marine Science D32

Program 9 - Customs

Subprogram 9.1 - Industry assistance D58

Subprogram 9.3 - Inland revenue D59

Subprogram 9.5 - Coastwatch D52

Subprogram 9.6 - Passenger processing D54

Subprogram 9.9 - Corporate services D61

Program 11 - Scientific and industrial research D40

TREASURY

General

Attenders D68

Program 1 - Economic policy

Subprogram 1.1 - Macro-economic D69

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Subprogram 1.2 - structural D77

Subprogram 1.3 - Debt management D78

Subprogram 1.4 - Taxation Policy D79

Subprogram 1.6 - International Economy D80

Program 2 - Financial System

Subprogram 2.2 - Currency (including Royal Australian Mint) D80

Program 3 - Payments to or for Other Levels of Government

Subprogram 3.1 - Payments relating to general purpose revenue assistance D80

Program 5 - Australian Bureau of Statistics

Subprogram 5.1 - Statistical operations D81

Program 6 - Taxation Administration

Subprogram 6.1 - Income Tax D88

Subprogram 6.2 - Sales Tax D92

Program 7 - Industry Commission D94

Program 8 - Trade Practices Commission

Subprogram 8.2 - Initiatives to improve market conduct D96

Program 9 - Insurance and Superannuation Commission

Subprogram 9.2 - Life insurance D97

Subprogram 9.4 - Superannuation D98

Program 10 - Prices Surveillance Authority D99

1 3 7

Friday, 27 May 1994

FINANCE

General

Attenders Content and presentation of Portfolio Budget Measures Statements

Program 1 - Budget development and management

Subprogram 1.1 - Budget coordination

Program 2 - Resource management framework

Subprogram 2.1 - Resource management practices

Program 3 - Government financial administration and services

Subprogram 3.1 - Central accounting systems Subprogram 3.2 - Information technology services Subprogram 3.3 - Information technology policy and consultancy services

Program 4 - Retirement benefits

Subprogram 4.1 - Commonwealth Superannuation Administration

Program 6 - Asset sales

Subprogram 6.1 - Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales A Subprogram 6.2 - Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales B

Program 7 - Corporate Services

Subprogram 7.1 - Executive

Program 8 - Australian National Audit Office

D109 D138

D110, D138

D112

D114 D114 D115

D120

D122 D122

D133

D133

1 3 8

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE JD

Minutes of Supplementary Meeting

Thursday, 23 June 1994

1 3 9

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE O'

Minutes of Meeting No.23 Thursday 23 June 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee m et publicly from 11.54 am till 5.48 pm in the Main Committee Room, Parliam ent House Canberra, for the purpose of conducting a supplem entary meeting of the Committee. Senator Coates took the Chair.

Senator Peter Cook, M inister for Industry Science and Technology, and Senator Chris Schacht, M inister for Small Business, Customs and Construction, answered questions on the estimates. The following departm ental and agency staff appeared before the Committee to assist the M inisters.

Industry, Science and Technology Portfolio

D epartm ent of Industry, Science and Technology—

Mr Neil Edwards, First Assistant Secretary, Trade Investment Facilitation and Coordination Division Mr David Hanna, Assistant Secretary, M inisterial and Portfolio Coordination Branch Mr Phil Lansdown, Acting A ssistant Secretary, Automotive and Advanced M anufacturing Industries Branch

A ustralian Customs Service

Mr Lionel Woodward, Comptroller-General Mr Les Jones, National Manager, Passenger Processing Mr Larry Roux, Acting National Manager, Coastwatch

Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation

Dr John Stocker, Chief Executive Mr A rthur Blewitt, Director, Corporate Services Ms Marie Kier, Manager, M inisterial and Government Business

Treasurer's Portfolio

Departm ent of Treasury

Dr Ken Henry, First Assistant Secretary, Taxation Policy

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Australian Bureau of Statistics

Mr Tim Skinner, First Assistant Statistician, Social and Labour Division

Australian Taxation Office

Mr Richard Highfield, Second Commissioner Ms M oira Scollay, First Assistant Commissioner (Child Support Agency) Mr David Butler, A ssistant Commissioner (Child Support Agency)

Finance Portfolio

D epartm ent of Finance

Mr P at B arrett, Deputy Secretary

Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales A

Mr Peter Saunders, Chairman Mr Greg Feeney, Deputy Chairman

Commonwealth Task Force on Asset Sales B

Mr Ross Smith, Chairman Mr Kym Bills, Deputy Chairman

The Committee concluded its supplementary hearings into the proposed expenditure for the Industry, Science and Technology, Treasurer's and Finance Portfolios.

2. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Coates (Chair), Chapman, Ferguson, Gibson, Murphy, Neal, P arer and Short.

Senators Coulter, Panizza and Tambling were also in attendance.

Certified Correct

CHAIR

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AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

MAY 1994

1 4 3

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Page

Table of Contents i

Members of the Committee iii

Report to the Senate 1

Minutes of Meetings 5

Table of Contents for Hansard of Public Hearings 21

1 4 4

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Chairperson: Senator J Devereux (Tasmania)

Members: Senator W Crane

Senator D Foreman Senator J McGauran Senator J Troeth Senator AO Zakharov

(Western Australia) (South Australia) (Victoria) (Victoria)

(Victoria)

Senator Sandy Macdonald (New South Wales) replaced Senator McGauran for the consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Primary Industries and Energy.

Senator Tierney (New South Wales) replaced Senator Crane and Senator Teague (South Australia) replaced Senator Troeth for the consideration of the Estimates for the Departm ent of Employment, Education and Training.

Secretary: Ms Mary Lindsay

Research Staff: Ms Pamela Corrigan

Ms Dianne Laycock

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RECOMMENDATIONS

10. Estimates Committee E recommends that the Senate approve, without amendment or request for amendment, expenditure in accordance with the estimates referred to the Committee.

11. Estimates Committee E recommends that Department of Finance guidelines relating to the provision of information for Estimates Committees be amended to ensure that future documentation is more detailed and comprehensive than the information included in this year's Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE AND SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

12. The Standing Orders require the Committee, after considering the proposed expenditure and agreeing on its report to the Senate, to fix a date for the submission of any written answers or additional information and for the commencement of supplementary hearings.

13. The Committee has decided that written answers and additional information shall be submitted by Friday, 10 June 1994. The Committee will commence its supplementary hearings on Thursday, 23 June 1994.

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

14. The Committee is grateful for the assistance given by the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy (Senator the Hon Bob Collins), the Minister for Small Business, Customs and Construction (Senator the Hon Chris Schacht) and by officers of the departments and agencies concerned.

J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF MEETINGS

FOR

Tuesday, 10 May 1994 Thursday, 26 May 1994 Friday, 27 May 1994 Wednesday, 1 June 1994

1 4 7

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting 37/22 Tuesday 10 May 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met from 1.52pm till 1.57pm in the Government Advisers Area outside the Senate Chamber.

2. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Foreman, Troeth and Zakharov were in attendance.

3. ARRANGEMENTS FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS

It was resolved that the departments appear in the order listed in the Notice Paper of 4 May 1994 (Primary Industries and Energy; Transport; and Employment, Education and Training) and that the Committee commence public hearings at 9.00am on Thursday 26 May 1994. (Moved Senator Troeth)

4. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

The following Senators indicated they wished to receive answers only to the questions on notice which they had asked:

Senators Devereux, Foreman, Troeth and Zakharov.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting No 37/23 Thursday 26 May 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met at 9.05am till 8.42pm in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-1995 - PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY

Senator the Hon Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the Committee.

Department of Primary Industries and Energy

Mr Mike Holthuyzen

Mr Rob Rawson

M r Patrick Davoren

Mr Paul Hickey

Mr Digby Gascoine

Mr Kevin Doyle

Mr Graham McGregor

Mr Bruce Gosper

First Assistant Secretary, Coal and Minerals Division Assistant Secretary, Coal and Minerals Division

Manager, Rehabilitation and Radioactive Waste Policy, Coal and Minerals Division Executive Director, Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service

Director, Food Inspection Division, Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service Senior Assistant Director, Animal Quarantine and Exports, Australian Quarantine and

Inspection Service Acting Executive Director, Agriculture and Forests Group Acting First Assistant Secretary, Livestock and

Pastoral Division

1 4 9

Mr Alan Newton First Assistant Secretary, Crops Division

Mr Bruce Lilburn Assistant Secretary, Crops Division

Mr Richard Stevens Managing Director, Australian Fisheries

Management Authority

Mr John Wicks First Assistant Secretary, Energy Programs

and Fisheries Division

Mr Ken Matthews Executive Director, Headquarters Group

Mr Bill Handke Acting Assistant Secretary, Land Resources

Division

Mr Tony Byrne Assistant Secretary, Land Resources Division

Mr Ross Walker Assistant Secretary, Land Resources Division

Mr Bemie Wonder Assistant Secretary, Rural Division

Mr Bruce O'Meagher Assistant Secretary, Rural Division Ms Wendy Fisher Assistant Secretary, Energy Programs and

Fisheries Division

Mr Peter Webb Assistant Secretary, Energy Programs and

Fisheries Division

Mr George Zuber Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch

Mr Harvey Jacka Executive Director, Australian Geological

Survey Organisation

Dr Brian Fisher Executive Director, Australian Bureau of

Agriculture and Resource Economics

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-1995 - TRANSPORT PORTFOLIO

Senator the Hon Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the Committee.

Department of Transport

Mr Chris Thorpe

Mr Nigel Graves

Mr Paul Merner

First Assistant Secretary, Land Transport Division Corporate Strategy Manager, Land Transport Division Acting Deputy Secretary (T ransport

Operations)

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Mr Paul McGrath Mr Bill Ellis

Mr David Williams M r George Macionis

Mr John Pike

Mr Bob Scott

Mr Holger von Muenchhausen

Dr Rosalind Dubs

Mr Mick Mayoh

Chief Executive, Maritime Safety Authority First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Direction and Support Division Manager, Legal, Civil Aviation Authority

Director, Aviation Safety Regulation, Civil Aviation Authority Deputy Director, Operations, Bureau of Air Safety Investigation

Manager, Airworthiness, Civil Aviation Authority Manager, Flying Operations, Civil Aviation Authority

Acting Chief Executive Officer, Civil Aviation Authority G e n e r a l M a n a g e r , F in a n c e a n d

Administration, Civil Aviation Authority

4. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairperson), Crane, Foreman and Zakharov.

Also in attendance were Senators Michael Baume, Campbell, Margetts, Ian Macdonald and Sandy Macdonald.

CERTIF IED CORRECT

ty J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

1 5 1

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting No 37/24 Friday 27 May 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met from 8.55am to 9.05am in the annexe to Committee Room 2S1.

2. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairperson), Foreman and Zakharov were in attendance.

3. TIMES OF PUBLIC HEARING

It was resolved that the public hearing scheduled between 9.00am and 10.30pm today would conclude at 4.00pm and, if necessary, resume at 10.30am on Monday 30 May 1994. (Moved Senator Zakharov, seconded Senator Foreman).

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

1 5 2

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting No 37/25 Friday 27 May 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met at 9.14am till 3.49pm in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairperson, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-1995 -

EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING

Senator the Hon Chris Schacht, Minister for Small Business, Customs and Construction, answered questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the Committee.

Department of Employment, Education and Training

M r Michael Gallagher

Ms Robyn McKay

M r Roger Peacock

Ms Helen Swift

M r Bill Daniels

M r Bob Crafter

Ms Mary Lovett

M r John Wells

First Assistant Secretary, Higher Education Division Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch, Higher Education Division

First Assistant Secretary, International Division Assistant Secretary, Budget and Strategic Planning Branch, Corporate Services Division First Assistant Secretary, Schools and

Curriculum Division Assistant Secretary, Research Branch, Higher Education Division First Assistant Secretary, Vocational

Education and Training Division Director, Training Guarantee Section, Vocational Education and Training Division

1 5 3

Mr John Rowling

Mr Don Brewster

Ms Helen Allnutt

Mr Alan Hird

Ms Leslie Riggs

Mr Jim Moore

Mr Ken Douglas

Mr Ian Campbell

Mr Wayne Gibbons Mr Bill Bowron

Mr Rod Halstead

Mr Peter Grant

Mr Phil Potterton

Mr Chris Evans

Ms Sheila Butler

Ms Ruth Doobov

Mr Bob Harvey

Assistant Secretary, Entry Level Training Reform, Vocational Education and Training Division General Manager, Australian National Training Authority A ssista n t S e c re ta ry , T ra in in g and

Development Branch, Vocational Education and Training Division Acting Assistant Secretary, Quality Schooling Branch, Schools and Curriculum Division Acting First Assistant Secretary, Schools and

Curriculum Division First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services

Division Acting Assistant Secretary, Aboriginal E m ploym ent and S trategy B ranch,

Employment Programs Delivery Division First Assistant Secretary, Employment Programs Delivery Division Deputy Secretary Assistant Secretary, Benefits Control Branch, Performance and Review Division First Assistant Secretary, Area Coordination Division First Assistant Secretary, Economic and Policy Analysis Division A ssistant Secretary, Evaluation and

Monitoring Branch, Economic and Policy Analysis Division Acting Assistant Secretary, Client Strategies and Training Branch, Employment Programs Delivery Division Assistant Secretary, Employment Assistance Australia, Employment Programs Delivery Division Assistant Secretary, Student Assistance Branch, Student and Youth Division Assistant Secretary, Youth Bureau, Student and Youth Division

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Ms Anna Kamarul Assistant Secretary, Language and Literacy

Branch, Student and Youth Division

Ms Frances Davies First Assistant Secretary, Student and Youth

Division

3. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Foreman, Teague, Tierney and Zakharov.

Also in attendance were Senators Baume and Margetts.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

CHAIRMAN

1 5 5

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting No 37/26 Wednesday 1 June 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met at 9.20am in the Government Advisers Area outside the Senate Chamber. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

Z ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Crane, Foreman and Zakharov were in attendance.

3. CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT REPORT

The Committee considered the Chair's Draft R eport and the Minutes of meetings, which were circulated to members on 31 May 1994.

4. RESOLUTIONS

The Committee resolved:

That the Chair's Draft Report be agreed to. (Moved: Senator Foreman; seconded: Senator Zakharov).

That the Minutes of Meetings for 10, 26 and 27 May be confirmed. (Moved: Senator Zakharov; seconded: Senator Foreman).

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5. ADJO URNM ENT

The Committee adjourned at 9.25am.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

TABLE OF CONTENTS

FOR

HANSARD OF HEARINGS

FOR

Thursday, 26 May 1994 Friday, 27 May 1994

1 5 9

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

HANSARD INDEX

Thursday, 26 May 1994

Program Page

PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY PORTFOLIO

1 Industries Development 1.1 Livestock and Pastoral E 28-36

1.3 Fisheries E 36-38

1.4 Petroleum E 38-39

1.5 Coal and Minerals E 3-12

2 Industry and Community Services 2.1 Natural Resources Management E 39-49

2.2 Rural Adjustment and Services E 49-57

2.3 Quarantine and Inspection E 12-36

2.4 Energy E 57-66

2.5 Other Industry Services E 66

3 Research and Assessment 3.1 Geoscience Research and Mapping E 66-72

4 Corporate Management and Policy E 69-72

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Program Page

TRANSPORT PORTFOLIO

1 Aviation E 91-111

2 Land Transport 2.1 Road and Rail Policy Development E 74-82

3 Maritime

3.1 Maritime Policy E 82-88

4 Corporate Direction and Support E 88-91

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Friday, 27 May 1994

Program Page

EMPLOYMENT EDUCATION AND TRAINING PORTFOLIO

1 Schools

1.1 General Assistance 1.2 Targeted Assistance

E 160-164 E 164

2 Higher Education 2.1 Higher Education System 2.2 Targeted Research and Scientific Development E 121-148

E 148-153

3 Vocational Education and Training 3.1 Training Reform 3.2 Australian National Training Authority

E 153-155 E 155-160

4 Employment E 164-188

5 Student, Youth and Language Support 5.1 Education Assistance and Income Support 5.2 Youth Grants and Support E 188-193

E 193-194

6 Portfolio Administration and Advising 6.1 Executive Management 6.3 International Participation and Services

E 195 E 195

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Meeting

No 37/27 of 23 June 1994

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E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E E

Minutes of Meeting No 37/27 Thursday 23 June 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met at 12.07pm till 6.11pm in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDRORE 1994-1995 -PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY

Senator the Hon Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered supplementary questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the

Committee.

Department of Primary Industries and Energy

Headquarters Group Mr Ken Matthews

Corporate Affairs Division Mr George Zuber Mr Karl Ovijach

Ministerial Coordination Division Mr Simon Hearn Mr Ian Cronshaw Ms Lisa Walkington Mr Robert Hamon

Rural Division Mr Bob Calder Mr Bruce O'Meagher Mr Onka Kingma

Land Resources Division Mr Geoff Gorrie Mr Don Banfield Mr Ross Walker Mr Tony Byrne Mr Michael O'Loughlin

Executive Director

Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch Director, Corporate Treasury

First Assistant Secretary Assistant Secretary Policy Coordination Policy Coordination

Acting First Assistant Secretary Assistant Secretary, Assistant Secretary

First Assistant Secretary Assistant Secretary Assistant Secretary Assistant Secretary

Resource Manager

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Australian Geological Survey Organisation Mr Harvey Jacka Executive Director

Mr Chris Pigram Head of Marine Program

Ms Jane Wolfe Head of Program, Business Management

Mr Hans Hoefnagels Financial Controller

Resources and Energy Group Mr Geoff Shain Manager, Group Support Unit

Energy Programs and Fisheries Division Mr John Wicks First Assistant Secretary

Mr Peter Webb Assistant Secretary

Australian Fisheries Management Authority Mr Richard Stevens Managing Director

Mr Geoff Rohan General Manager, Southern Fisheries

Mr Frank Meere General Manager, Corporate Services

Petroleum and Energy Policy Division Mr David Barnes Assistant Secretary

Mr David Purcell Assistant Secretary

Mr Chris Hyman Manager, Resources and Services Section

Mr Ian Senini Assistant Manager, Resources and Services

Coal and Minerals Division Mr Robert Crick Assistant Secretary

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-1995 - TRANSPORT PORTFOLIO

Senator the Hon Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered supplementary questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the Committee.

Department of Transport

Executive Mr Paul Merner Acting Deputy Secretary, Transport

Operations

Ms Vanessa Fanning Acting Deputy Secretary, Transport Policy

Bureau of Air Safety Investigation Dr Bob Lee Director

Mr Dave Adams Deputy Director, Policy

Mr John Pike Deputy Director, Operations

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Federal Airports Corporation Mr Jack Moffatt Mr Steve Cordaly Ms Helen Burgess

Chief General Manager, Operations Manager, Corporate Financial Services Corporate Solicitor

Civil Aviation Authority Mr Doug Roser Mr Buck Brooksbank Mr George Macionis Mr Holger von Muenchhausen Mr Mick Mayoh Mr Graham Beer Mr Tom Grant

Mr David Williams Mr Bob Scott Ms Jane Sullivan

Chief Executive Officer General Manager, Air Traffic Services Director, Aviation Safety Regulation Manager, Flying Operations General Manager, Finance & Administration Manager, Financial Strategy General Manager, Corporate Employee Relations Manager, Office of Legal Counsel Manager, Airworthiness Manager, Public Relations

Road and Rail Policy Mr Chris Thorpe First Assistant Secretary

Mr Andy Hrast Assistant Secretary, Roads Branch

Management Support and Advice Mr Bill Ellis First Assistant Secretary

Mr John Elliott Assistant Secretary, Resource Management

Branch

Mr Matt Minogue Director, Legal and General Branch

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1994-1995 - EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING

Senator the Hon Chris Schacht, Minister for Small Business, Customs and Construction, answered supplementary questions on the estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information directly to the Committee.

Department of Employment, Education and Training

Mr Wayne Gibbons Deputy Secretary

Schools and Curriculum Division Mr Bill Daniels First Assistant Secretary

Ms Leslie Riggs Assistant Secretary, Budget and Information

Branch

Higher Education Division Mr Michael Gallagher First Assistant Secretary

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Vocational Education and Training Division Ms Mary Lovett First Assistant Secretary

Mr Peter Dowling Acting Assistant Secretary, Training and

Development Branch

Ms Barbara Bennett Acting Assistant Secretary, Strategic Policy and Planning Branch Mr John Rowling Assistant Secretary, Entry Level Training

Reform

Mr John Wells Director, Training Guarantee Section

Australian National Training Authority Mr Don Brewster General Manager

Employment Programs Delivery Division Mr Ian Campbell First Assistant Secretary

Mr Chris Evans Acting Assistant Secretary, Client Strategies

and Training Branch

Ms Sheila Butler Assistant Secretary, Employment Assistance Australia Mr Pat Watson Acting Assistant Secretary, Workskills Branch

Student and Youth Division Ms Frances Davies Mr Bruce Wittington First Assistant Secretary

Acting Assistant Secretary, Student Assistance Branch

Mr Bob Harvey Ms Anna Kamarul

Assistant Secretary, Youth Bureau Assistant Secretary, Language and Literacy Branch

Corporate Services Division Mr Jim Moore Ms Helen Swift First Assistant Secretary

Assistant Secretary, Budget and Strategic Planning Branch

Economic and Policy Analysis Division Mr Phil Potterton Assistant Secretary, Evaluation and

Monitoring Branch

Performance and Review Division Mr Bill Shepherd Director, Fraud Prevention Section

Mr Keith Thomas Director, Benefits Control Section

International Division Mr Roger Peacock Mr Bob Goddard

First Assistant Secretary Acting Assistant Secretary, Australian International Education Foundation Task

Ms Linda Lipp

Force Assistant Secretary, International Policy Branch

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Mr Dudley Martin

Ms Jenni Gordon Assistant Secretary, International Students

Branch Assistant Secretary, International Projects Services Branch

Secretariat Ms Jean Krystyn Mr Geoff Gill "

Budget and Strategic Planning Branch Budget and Strategic Planning Branch

Department of Finance Mr Ian McAuley

4. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairperson), Crane, Foreman, Sandy Macdonald, McGauran, Tierney, Troeth and Zakharov.

Also in attendance were Senators Baume, Kemp, Chamarette, Margetts, Ian Macdonald and Tambling.

CEFFTIFIED CORRECT

J R Devereux CHAIRMAN

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

JU N E 1994

1 6 9

M EM BERS OF T H E COMMITTEE

CHAIRMAN:

MEMBERS:

Secretary:

Research Staff:

Senator Mai Colston (Queensland)

Senator Eric Abetz (Tasmania) Senator Barney Cooney (Victoria) Senator Christopher Ellison (Western Australia)* Senator Susan Knowles (Western Australia) # + Senator Jim McKiernan (Western Australia)

* Senator Short to replace Senator Ellison for the consideration o f the estimates o f the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

# Senator Vans tone to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration o f the estimates of the Attorney- General's portfolio.

+ Senator Tambling to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration o f the estimates o f the Housing and Regional Development portfolio.

Michael McLean

Dianne Fraser Stephanie Holden

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TABLE OF CONTENTS

Page

List of members ^

Report to the Senate i

Minutes o f Proceedings

Public hearing - Wednesday, 25 May 1994 6

Public hearing - Thursday, 26 May 1994 8

Public hearing - Friday, 27 May 1994 11

Public hearing - Wednesday, 1 June 1994 17

Private meeting - Wednesday, 1 June 1994 20

Index to Hansard of public hearings 21

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ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F presents its report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 12 May 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 and the particulars of certain proposed expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1995 of the following portfolios:

. Parliament;

. Attorney-General;

. Immigration and Ethnic Affairs; and

. Housing and Regional Development.

2. The Committee has considered the estimates for the year ending 30 June 1995 together with Portfolio Budget Measures Statements and has received evidence from the President of the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus and officers of the departments and agencies concerned. The Committee met in public session on 25, 26 and 27 May 1994 and on 1 June

1994. The hearing on 25 May 1994, which took place at the same time as Estimates Committees A, B and C, was authorised by the Senate on 12 May 1994 because the Standing Orders o f the Senate otherwise provide that not more than three estim ates committees shall sit simultaneously. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and an index to the Hansard transcripts are incorporated in this report. The Hansard transcripts of evidence are also tabled in copjunction with this report. Further written explanations furnished by departments will be presented separately in volumes o f additional information.

3. The Committee draws the attention o f the Senate to the following matters which arose during consideration o f the estimates:

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MAY BUDGET

4. This was the first occasion that the Committee considered the Budget estim ates under the new Budget timetable. The principal changes to the Committee's operations were the replacement of the former Program Performance Statements with Portfolio Budget Measures Statem ents, the absence of performance information for the previous year and the unavailability of current annual reports. While the

Program Performance Statements contained comprehensive details of proposed expenditure for all programs, the Portfolio Budget Measures Statem ents concentrated only on those new measures which were contained in the current budget and on any significant variations in expenditure from the previous year. -

5. Senator Short expressed concern about the brevity of the

documentation in the following terms:

We are all grappling with this new format in estimates. This documentation is a pale shadow of what we had in the past. We will need to have another look at all this.

An awful amount of detail that would be very helpful for conducting these estimates hearings is missing...The new format makes a proper examination at these estimates hearings extremely difficult (Hansard, p. F40).

6. W hen representing the Department o f the Senate at the Committee's hearing the President of the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, informed the Committee:

Senators will have noticed that the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements for m ost o f th e Departments are now much briefer. In the case o f the Budget Measures Statem ents for the Department o f the Senate, the decision had been made to continue to provide the detailed break-up o f proposed expenditure, as was provided in past years, because o f the particular interest

of senators in the operations o f the Senate support department (Hansard, p. F90).

7. The Committee was advised that the information previously provided in the Program Performance Statem ents and annual reports will be provided in new documentation to be tabled in late October/early November each year, when it would be available for the consideration

o f the estimates committees during the additional estimates hearings scheduled for November.

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8. The Committee will await the outcome of the additional estimates process before it passes final judgement on the adequacy o f the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements. The Committee notes that the Department of the Senate was able to provide it with useful data in the short time available for its preparation. The Committee therefore suggests that the Department o f Finance examine whether more comprehensive reporting could be provided in future Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

HOUSING AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO

9. The Housing and Regional Development portfolio consists o f the Department of Housing and Regional Development and the National Capital Planning Authority. The Department was established following the announcement by the Prime Minister on 25 March 1994 of a number of changes to ministerial and departmental arrangements. The new Department is composed of divisions drawn from the former Department of Human Services and Health and the former Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development.

10. The Secretary of the Department, Mr Andrew Podger, informed the Committee:

One of the vagaries o f having a new department is sorting out running costs. I simply note that, while the aggregate figures are fine, the distribution of the 1993-94 figures between the programs is not exact in this document [the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements]. It is as good as could be provided at the time (Hansard, p. F 31).

11. While the Committee welcomes Mr Podger's frankness and recognises that the allocation of expenditure from the former departments into the new Department's program structure may involve some difficulty, the Committee expects these issues to have been resolved by the time o f the Committee's consideration o f the additional estim ates in November.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S PORTFOLIO

12. During the Committee's consideration o f the 1993-94 Additional Estimates of the Attorney-General's portfolio, Senator Vanstone sought details of the daily rates paid to defence counsel of persons charged with offences under the War Crimes A ct The Minister representing the Attorney-General, and the officers of the Department, declined to provide such detailed information, citing commercial-in-confidence and privacy considerations. The Opposition members of the Committee

1 7 4

lodged a reservation on the issue in the Committee's March 1994 Report to the Senate and made particular reference to the long­ standing view of the Senate that claims of privacy and commercial-in­ confidence were not o f themselves sufficient reasons for Parliament or

a committee to be denied access to information about the expenditure of public funds.

13. Senator Vans tone again raised the issue during the Committee's current hearings in the context o f the findings of the Access to Justice Advisory Committee, chaired by Mr Ronald Sackville QC, that disclosure of fees would increase the level o f competition in the legal

profession. On this occasion, Secretary of the Attorney-General's Department, Mr Stephen Skehill, stated:

A press release was issued yesterday...and the Attorney- General has indicated that he accepts that part of the Sackville report and has indicated that we will provide details of fees paid to counsel for parliamentary

committees on request in accordance with that resolution of the Senate that was passed some time ago (Hansard, p. F127).

14. Details of aggregate payments to legal counsel have been provided to estimates committees on request for over a decade. The Committee notes that the Attorney-General's decision to allow the disclosure of daily rates not only recognises the right of the Senate and its

committees to scrutinise the expenditure o f public funds by the Government but may, through competition, lead to lower fees having to be paid by the Commonwealth in future.

DATES FOR THE SUBMISSION OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION/ SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

15. Pursuant to paragraph (l)(a) of the Senate's order of 6 May 1993, the Committee has set 10 June 1994 as the day for the submission to it of any written answers or additional information relating to the proposed expenditures examined by the Committee.

16. Pursuant to paragraph (l)(b) of the Senate's order of 6 May 1993, the Committee has set 23 June 1994 as the day for the commencement of supplementary meetings to consider matters relating to the proposed expenditures examined by the Committee. Senators are reminded that,

in accordance with paragraph (3) of the Senate’s order, notice of matters to be raised at this hearing should be lodged with the Committee not fewer than three days before the hearing date; that is, by 19 June 1994. Since this date is a Sunday, lodgement by Friday, 17 June 1994 would be o f assistance.

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ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

17. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given during its hearing by the President o f the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, and the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus. The Committee also thanks the officials of the departments and agencies examined for their attendance and cooperation in answering questions, and for providing detailed written responses where sought.

I Ί S 3 ■i

Mai Colston Chairman

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T H E SENATE

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.14

WEDNESDAY, 25 MAY 1994

ESTIM A TES COMMITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 3.07 p.m. in Committee Room 1S4. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: HOUSING AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Housing and Regional Development portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister

representing the Minister for Housing and Regional Development, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Housing and Regional Development:

Mr Andrew Podger, Secretary Mr Bruce Gemmell, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Mr Mark Lynch, First Assistant Secretary, H ousing Policy and Programs

Division Mr Chris Foster, Assistant Secretary, Strategies and Research Branch, Housing Policy and Programs Division Dr Mark Johnston, First Assistant Secretary, Local Government and Urban

Development Division Ms Christianna Cobbold, Assistant Secretary, H ousing Industry and Exports Branch Mr Alan Evans, First Assistant Secretary, Regional Development Division Mr John Bolton, Acting Chief Executive, National Capital Planning Authority

Department of Finance:

Ms Anne Hegerty, Finance Officer Ms Jenny Lillingston, Finance Officer

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4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman invited general questions which spanned the portfolio and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs as they appeared in the program structure shown in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The Minister tabled a corrigendum to the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service o f the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Housing and Regional Development portfolio, subject to undertakings by the M inister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.30 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Cooney, McKieman, and Tambling.

Senators Ian Macdonald and Margetts also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

CONFIRMED:

^ , - - 7 7 — l <2. I / Γ

Mai Colston Chairman

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T H E SEN A TE

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.15

THURSDAY, 26 MAY 1994

EST IM A T E S COMMITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 9.36 a.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: IMMIGRATION AN D ETHNIC AFFAIRS PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed expenditure o f the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Immigration and Ethnic Affairs:

Mr Christopher Conybeare, Secretary Mr Dennis Richardson, Deputy Secretary Mr Mark Sullivan, Deputy Secretary Mr Andrew Struik, Deputy Director, Bureau of Immigration and Population

Research Mr David Wheen, First Assistant Secretary, Migration Division Mr Vince McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Migration Planning Branch Mr Peter Judd, Assistant Secretary, November 1 Task Force Mr Ed Killesteyn, First A ssistant Secretary, Entry, Compliance and Systems

Division Mr David Adcock, Acting A ssistant Secretary, Compliance Branch Mr Emil Joseph, Assistant Secretary, Entry Branch Mr Dario Gastello, A ssistant Secretary, Executive Support and Review Branch Mr David Page, Assistant Secretary, Overseas Operations Branch Mr Vince Giuca, Director, Refugees A, Refugees Asylum and International

Branch Ms Mary-Anne Ellis, Director, Residence Policy Section, Residence and Temporary Entrants Branch Mr Peter Hughes, Assistant Secretary, Migrant Entry and Citizenship Branch Ms Jenny Bedlington, First Assistant Secretary, Onshore Refugee Division

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Mr Des Sfcorer, First Assistant Secretary, Settlement and Ethnic Affairs Division Ms Pat McCahey, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate and International Division Mr Abul Rizvi, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch Mr Kevin Mann, Director, Budget Management Section, Resource Management Branch Mr Andrew Metcalfe, Assistant Secretary, Advisings, Legislation and Legal Policy Branch Mr Doug Walker, Acting Assistant Secretary, Litigation and Refugee Law Branch

Immigration Review Tribunal:

Mr Trevor Rodgers, Registrar

Refugee Review Tribunal:

Ms Patricia Leehy, Registrar

Attorney-General's Department:

Mr Graham Mowbray, General Counsel

Department o f Finance:

Peter Antcliffs

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman invited general questions which spanned the portfolio and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs as they appeared in the program structure shown in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The Minister tabled a corrigendum to the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The Committee briefly interrupted its sitting between 10.21 a.m. and 10.29 a.m.

5. SUSPENSION OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 12.47 p.m. and 1.38 p.m.

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6. RESUMPTION: The Committee resumed its consideration of the estim ates of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide

additional information to the Committee.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.10 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Abetz, Cooney, M cKieman, and Short.

Senator Tambling also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

Senator Knowles submitted her apologies.

CONFIRMED:

Mai Colston Chairman

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TH E SE N A T E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.16

FRIDAY, 27 MAY 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.02 a.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: PARLIAMENT: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed expenditure o f the parliamentary departments.

In attendance was the President o f the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Senate:

Mr Harry Evans, Clerk of the Senate Ms Anne Lynch, Deputy Clerk Mr John Vender Wyk, Clerk Assistant, Corporate Management Mr Peter O'Keeffe, Clerk Assistant, Procedure Ms Rosemary Laing, Clerk Assistant, Committees Mr Cleaver Elliott, Clerk Assistant, Table Ms Andrea Griffiths, Deputy Usher o f the Black Rod Mr Graeme Nankervis, Director, Finance Management Section Ms Helen Donaldson, Director, Human Resource Management Section Mr John Carter, Director, Parliamentary Education Office Mr Don Holmes, Security-Controller (Department of the House of Representatives)

Department of the Parliamentary Library:

Mr John Templeton, Acting Parliamentary Librarian Mr John Brudenall, Deputy Parliamentary Librarian Dr June Vender, Head, Parliamentary Research Service Mr Rob Johnston, Adviser, Evaluation and Audit Ms Irene Austin, Director, Information Systems and Planning (Acting) Mr John Little, Director, Finance (Acting) Mr Brian Sweeney, Manager, General Services Ms Joy Clarke, Manager, Personnel Ms Paula Williams, Executive Assistant

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE F

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Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff:

Mr John Templeton, Secretary Mr B em ie Harris, Chief Hansard Reporter Ms Christine Page-Hanify, General Manager, Parliamentary Information Systems Office

Mr Bruce Sharp, Manager, Sound and Vision Office Mr John Walsh, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Management Branch

Joint House Department:

Mr Michael Bolton, Secretary Mr John Porter, Deputy Secretary Mr David Callan, Acting Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Supply Services Mr Robert Wedgwood, Assistant Secretary, Commercial Services Mr John Rankin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Property Management Mr Adrian Guilfoyle, Chief Engineer Mr Michael Jones, Manager, Parliament House Art Collection

Department of Finance:

Rose Collins Kari Ahner

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the estim ates of the parliamentary departments in the following order: Department of the Senate; Department of the Parliamentary Library; Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff; Joint House Department. The Chairman invited general questions which spanned the program structure and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs as they appeared in the program structures shown in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The President tabled an addendum to the Portfolio Budget Measures Statem ents of the Department of the Senate.

The Committee concluded its examination o f the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Parliament, subject to undertakings by the President and officers to provide additional information to the

Committee.

5. SUSPENSIO N OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 10.44 a.m. and 10.59 a.m.

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6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, M inister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department:

Mr Stephen Skehill, Secretary Mr Norman Reabum, Deputy Secretary Mr Dale Boucher, Australian Government Solicitor Mr David Edwards, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr Robert Orr, Deputy General Counsel, Office of General Counsel Mr Terry Gallagher, General Manager, Resources Ms Prudence Ford, Director, Federal Bureau of Consumer Affairs Mr Peter May, Acting General Manager, Practice Management Mr Chris Creswell, Assistant Secretary, International Trade Law and Intellectual Property Branch Mr Mike Fish, Manager, Finance and Property Branch Ms Carmel Meiklejohn, Executive Officer Mr Mark Peachey, Acting Director, Treasury and Budget Coordination Section

Australian Federal Police:

Mr Adrian Whiddett, Deputy Commissioner, Administration Mr Arnold Hoitink, Assistant Secretary, Resources and Services Division Mr Greg Thompson, Acting Executive Officer, Resources Monitoring Branch

Australian Institute of Criminology:

Dr Grant Wardlaw, Acting Director Mr Joe Millar, Executive Officer

Australian Securities Commission:

Mr Bill Robinson, Member Mr Ian Cameron, Director, Resources

Australian Security Intelligence Organisation:

Mr David Sadlier AO, Director-General of Security Mr Greg Batchelor, Acting Deputy Director-General Mr Ron Morris, Manager, Executive

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Mr Bill Coad, Director Mr Graham Pinner, Deputy Director Mr Christopher Snedden, Acting Executive Officer

Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission:

Ms Sema Varova, Executive Director Mr Tom McKnight, Assistant Secretary, Management Mr John Morrison, Assistant Secretary, Privacy Branch

Law Reform Commission:

Mr Alan Rose AO, President

National Crime Authority:

Mr Dene Hawke, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr Peter Lamb, General Manager, Operations Mr Daryl Smeaton, Executive Member, Commonwealth Law Enforcement Board

Office o f Parliamentary Counsel:

Ms Hilary Penfold, First Parliamentary Counsel Mr Tony Perkins, Executive Officer

Family Court o f Australia:

Mr Len Glare, Chief Executive Officer Mr Bruce Frankland, Principal Director, Administration

Federal Court o f Australia:

Mr Jim Howard, Principal Registrar Mr Ian Mackinlay, Manager, Court Resources

Administrative Appeals Tribunal:

Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre:

Mr David Schulz, Registrar

Industrial Relations Court o f Australia:

Mr Alan Dawson, Acting Registrar

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Australian Bureau of Criminal Intelligence:

Mr Greg O'Neill, Director Mr Steve Dixon, Executive Officer

Department o f Finance:

Liz Wells Tony Boxal

7. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the estim ates of the Attorney-General's portfolio. The Chairman invited general questions which spanned the portfolio and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs as they appeared in the program structure shown in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

The Minister tabled a corrigendum to the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

8. SUSPEN SIO N OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 12.45 p.m. and 1.38 p.m.

9. RESUMPTION: The Committee resumed its consideration o f the estim ates of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

Senator Baume indicated an intention to table some documents.

The Committee suspended its sitting between 2.17 p.m. and 2.26 p.m.

The Chairman indicated that Senator Baume had notified the Committee that he had withdrawn the intention to table documents.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service o f the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the following sub-programs of the Attorney- General's portfolio: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 2.2, 2.3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, and 6.6, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

10. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 3.54 p.m.

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11. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Abetz, Ellison, McKieman and Vanstone.

Senators Baume and Crichton-Browne also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

Senator Knowles submitted her apologies.

CONFIRMED:

Mai Colston Chairman

1 8 ?

TH E S E N A T E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS N O .17

WEDNESDAY, 1 JU N E 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 7.51 p.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S PORTFOLIO: The Committee resumed its consideration of the proposed expenditure o f the Attorney-General's portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department:

Mr Stephen Skehill, Secretary Mr Norman Reabum, Deputy Secretary Mr David Edwards, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr Terry Gallagher, General Manager, Resources Mr Chris Creswell, Assistant Secretary, International Trade Law and Intellectual Property Branch Mr Mike Fish, Manager, Finance and Property Branch Ms Carmel Meiklejohn, Executive Officer Mr Mark Peachey, Acting Director, Treasury and Budget Coordination Section

Australian Federal Police:

Mr Adrian Whiddett, Deputy Commissioner, Administration Mr Alan Mills, Assistant Commissioner, Investigations Mr Arnold Hoitink, Assistant Secretary, Resources and Services Division Mr Greg Thompson, Acting Executive Officer, Resources Monitoring Branch

Australian Institute o f Criminology:

Dr Grant Wardlaw, Acting Director Mr Joe Millar, Executive Officer

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE F

1 8 8

Mr David Sadlier AO, Director-General of Security Mr Greg Batchelor, Acting Deputy Director-General Mr Ron Morris, Manager, Executive

National Crime Authority:

Mr Dene Hawke, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr Peter Lamb, General Manager, Operations Mr Daryl Smeaton, Executive Member, Commonwealth Law Enforcement Board

Industrial Relations Court o f Australia:

Mr Alan Dawson, Acting Registrar

Australian Bureau o f Criminal Intelligence:

Mr Greg O'Neill, Director Mr Steve Dixon, Executive Officer

Department o f Finance:

Tony Boxal

Australian Security Intelligence Organisation:

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the estimates of the Attorney-General's portfolio. The Chairman invited questions in relation to sub-program 2.1, all sub-programs from 4.4 to 6.5, and sub-programs 6.7 and 6.8 as shown in the Portfolio Budget Measures Statements.

5. SUSPENSIO N OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 10.49 p.m. and 11.01 p.m.

6. RESUMPTION OF SITTING: The Committee resumed its

consideration of the estim ates o f the Attorney-General's portfolio.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Attorney-General's portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

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7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.22 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Abetz, Cooney, Ellison, McKiernan and Vanstone.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Mai Colston Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.18

WEDNESDAY, 1 JU N E 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee m et in private session at 10.59 p.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings of the m eetings held on 25, 26 and 27 May 1994 (Nos. 14, 15 and 16) were confirmed.

3. COMMITTEE REPORT: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report. The Committee adopted the draft report as the report of the Committee for tabling in the Senate on 2 June 1994.

4. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Committee authorised the Chairman to certify the correctness of the Minutes of Proceedings of the two meetings held this day.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.00 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Ellison and McKieman.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Mai Colston Chairman

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ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE F H A N SA R D INDEX

WEDNESDAY, 25 MAY 1994

General

Chairman's Statement FI

Attendees F2

Department of Housing and Regional Development

General

General questions relating to the portfolio F2

Program 1 - Housing

Sub-program 1.1 - Housing Access and Affordability F l l

Program 3 - Local Government and Urban Development

Sub-program 3.1 - Urban Development F18

Sub-program 3.2 - Local Government F19

Program 5 - National Capital Planning F28

Program 6 - Corporate Direction and Support F31

THURSDAY, 26 MAY 1994

General

Attendees F33

Chairman's Statement F34

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

General questions relating to the portfolio F34

Program 1 - Immigration and Population Research

Sub-program 1.1 - Bureau o f Immigration and Population Research F42

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Program 2 - Entry

Sub-program 2.6 - Immigration Review Tribunal P4 g

Sub-program 2.1 - Migration and Temporary E ntiy P5 0

Sub-program 2.2 - Refugee and Humanitarian P 7 2

Sub-program 2.3 - Borders P7 g

Sub-program 2.4 - Investigation and Enforcement P 7 g

Program 3 - Citizenship

Sub-program 3.1 - Citizenship F81

Program 4 - Determination of Refugee Status

Sub-program 4.2 - Refugee Review Tribunal P82

Program 5 - Settlement and Ethnic Affairs

Sub-program 5.1 - Ethnic Affairs F85

Program 6 - Corporate Services

Sub-program 6.1 - Management Services F85

FRIDAY, 27 MAY 1994

General

Chairman's Statement F89

Attendees F89

Department of the Senate

Statement by the President F90

Program 1 - Clerk’s Office F90

Program 2 - Table Office F91

Program 3 - Procedure Office F99

Program 4 - Committee Office F102

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Department of the Parliamentary Library

General

Chairman's Statement F105

General questions relating to the portfolio F105

Department o f the Parliamentary Reporting Staff

General

Chairman's Statement F108

General questions relating to the portfolio F108

Joint House Department

General

Chairman's Statement F i l l

Program 1 - Building Management

Sub-program 1.1 - Engineering Services F i l l

Sub-program 1.2 - Supply Services F i l l

Program 2 - Parliamentary Services

Sub-program 2.1 - Public Relations F113

Sub-program 2.2 - Property Services F113

Attorney-General's Department

General

Attendees F121

Chairman's Statement F122

Program 1 - Legal Services to the Commonwealth

Sub-program 1.1 - Legal Practice F122

Program 2 - Business and Consumer Affairs

Sub-program 2.2 - Business Affairs F I44

Sub-program 2.1 - Insolvency and Trustee Service, Australia F154

Sub-program 2.3 - Federal Bureau of Consumer Affairs F154

Program 3 - Community Affairs

Sub-program 3.1 - Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission F143 Sub-program 3.1 - Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission F153 Sub-program 3.4 - Legal Aid and Family Services F158

Program 4 - Administration of Justice

Sub-program 4.1 - Federal Court of Australia F I62

Sub-program 4.2 - Family Court of Australia F165

WEDNESDAY, 1 JU N E 1994

General

Attendees F169

Chairman's Statem ent F I 70

Attorney-General's Department

Program 1 - Legal Services to the Commonwealth

Sub-program 1.1 - Legal Practice F170

Program 2 - Business and Consumer Affairs

Sub-program 2.1 - Insolvency and Trustee Service, Australia F170

Program 4: Administration of Justice

Sub-program 4.4: Industrial Relations Court of Australia F181

Sub-program 4.5: National Native Title Tribunal F182

Sub-program 4.7: Auscript F186

Sub-program 4.8: Ancillary Program Services F187

Program 5: High Court o f Australia

Sub-program 5.1: Management of High Court Business F188

Sub-program 5.2: Corporate Services F188

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Program 6: Maintenance of Law, Order and Security

Sub-program 6.1: Commonwealth Law Enforcement Board F188

Sub-program 6.2: Australian Federal Police F190

Sub-program 6.1: Commonwealth Law Enforcement Board F200

Sub-program 6.3: National Crime Authority F200

Sub-program 6.4: Common Police Services F202

Sub-program 6.5: Community Protection F203

6.5.1: Australian Institute of Criminology F203

6.5.3: Australian Protective Service F205

Sub-program 6.7: Office of the Director o f Public Prosecutions F209

Sub-program 6.8: Australian Security Intelligence Organisation F209

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

BUDGET ESTIMATES 1994-95 M INUTES OF SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING

JUNE 1994

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MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

CHAIRMAN:

MEMBERS:

Secretary:

Research Staff:

Senator Mai Colston (Queensland)

Senator Eric Abetz (Tasmania) Senator Barney Cooney (Victoria) Senator Christopher Ellison (Western Australia)* Senator Susan Knowles (Western Australia) # + Senator Jim McKieman (Western Australia)

* Senator Short to replace Senator Ellison for the consideration of the estimates of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

# Senator Vanstone to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration o f the estimates of the Attorney- General's portfolio.

+ Senator Tambling to replace Senator Knowles for the consideration o f the estimates of the Housing and Regional Development portfolio.

Michael McLean

Dianne Fraser Stephanie Holden

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THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 19

THURSDAY, 23 JU N E 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 11.52 a.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplementary consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Immigration and Ethnic Affairs:

Mr Christopher Conybeare, Secretary Mr Dennis Richardson, Deputy Secretary Mr Mark Sullivan, Deputy Secretary Mr Andrew Struik, Deputy Director, Bureau of Immigration and Population

Research Mr David Wheen, First Assistant Secretary, Migration Division Mr Vince McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Migration Planning Branch Mr Peter Judd, Assistant Secretary, November 1 Task Force

Mr Laurie Bugden, Assistant Secretary, Refugee, Asylum and International Branch Mr David Adcock, Acting Assistant Secretary, Compliance Branch Mr Emil Joseph, Assistant Secretary, Visa Delivery Project Mr Dario Gastello, Assistant Secretary, Executive Support and Review Branch

Mr Eric Brookbanks, Assistant Secretary, Residence and Temporary Entrants Branch Mr Jim O'Callaghan, Acting Assistant Secretary, Migrant Entry and Citizenship Branch Mr Des Storer, First Assistant Secretary, Settlem ent and Ethnic Affairs Division Mr Abul Rizvi, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch Mr Kevin Mann, Director, Budget Management Section, Resource Management Branch Mr Andrew Metcalfe, Assistant Secretary, Advisings, Legislation and Legal

Policy Branch

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Mr Doug Walker, Acting Assistant Secretary, Litigation and Refugee Law Branch

Refugee Review Tribunal:

Ms Patricia Leehy, Registrar

Immigration Review Tribunal:

Mr Trevor Rodgers, Registrar

Attorney-General's Department:

Mr Graham (Bert) Mowbray, General Counsel

Department o f Finance:

Mr Peter Antcliff, Finance Officer

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the matters in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

5. SUSPENSION OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 1.01 p.m. and 1.35 p.m.

6. RESUMPTION OF SITTING: The Committee resumed its

supplementaiy consideration of the estimates of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination o f the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

7. SUSPENSION OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 3.46 p.m. and 4.02 p.m.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1995-95: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplementary consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

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Attorney-General's Department:

Mr Stephen Skehill, Secretary Mr Dale Boucher, Australian Government Solicitor Mr David Edwards, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr Terry Gallagher, General Manager, Resources

Ms Prudence Ford, Director, Federal Bureau of Consumer Affairs Mr Peter May, Acting General Manager, Practice M anagement Mr Mike Cramsie, First Assistant Secretary, Legal Aid and Family Services Mr Peter Lowe, Acting Inspector-General in Bankruptcy

Ms M aureen Lewis, Assistant Secretary, Legal Aid Development Branch, Legal Aid and Family Services Dr M argaret Browne, Assistant Secretary, Program s G rants Branch, Legal Aid and Family Services

Ms Dusanka Sabic, Acting Assistant Secretary, Consumer Policy Branch, Federal Bureau of Consumer Affairs Mr Lyn Hansen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Products Policy and Standards Branch, Federal Bureau of Consumer Affairs

Australian Federal Police:

Mr Alan Mills, Assistant Commissioner, Investigations Mr Steve Gavin, Associate Secretary Mr Arnold Hoitink, Assistant Secretary, Resources and Services Division Mr Greg Thompson, Acting Executive Officer, Resources M onitoring Branch

Australian Securities Commission:

Mr Bill Robinson, Member Mr Alan Ruff, General Manager, Information Processing Centre

Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission:

Ms Sema Varova, Executive Director Mr Tom McKnight, Assistant Secretary, Management

National Crime Authority:

Mr Dene Hawke, General Manager, Corporate Services

Office o f Parliamentary Counsel:

Ms Hilary Penfold, First Parliam entary Counsel Mr Tony Perkins, Executive Officer

Commonwealth Law Enforcement Board:

Mr Daryl Smeaton, Executive Member

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Departm ent of Finance:

Mr Tony Boxall, Finance Officer

9. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the m atters in relation to the Attorney-General's portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

Senator Vanstone tabled the following documents:

. Letter from Glen Unicomb, M anager Investigations, Australian Securities Commission, to Mr S Maier, Zoobaba Pty. Ltd., dated 16 December 1992; and

. Letter from JW O'Brien, Official Liquidator, GPI Leisure Corporation Limited, to Mr Peter Stepek, Solicitors for the Australian Securities Commission, dated 23 June 1994.

10. SUSPENSION OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 6.26 p.m. and 8.00 p.m.

11. RESUMPTION OF SITTING: The Committee resumed its

supplem entary consideration of the estimates of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

The Committee concluded its supplem entary examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1995 in relation to the Attorney-General's portfolio, subject to undertakings by the M inister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

12. SUSPENSION OF SITTING: The Committee suspended its sitting between 10.00 p.m. and 10.06 p.m.

13. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1994-95: HOUSENG AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplem entary consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Housing and Regional Development portfolio.

In attendance were the following officers:

Departm ent of Housing and Regional Development:

Mr Bill Gray, Acting Secretary Mr M ark Lynch, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Policy and Programs Division Mr Geoff Watts, Acting Assistant Secretary, Strategies and Research Branch, Housing Policy and Programs Division

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Dr M ark Johnston, First Assistant Secretary, Local Government and Urban Development Division Mr Rod Calvert, Assistant Secretary, Office of Local Government Mr Alan Evans, First Assistant Secretary, Regional Development Division

Mr Alf Nagaiya, Divisional Liaison Officer Ms Saima Tuisk, Director, State Relations Mr G arry Prattley, Acting Chief Executive, National Capital Planning A uthority

Mr Jo h n Bolton, Acting Executive Director, Planning and Development Control, National Capital Planning Authority Mrs Megan Wilcox Ms C hristine Macfarlane

Department of Finance:

Ms Anne Hegerty, Finance Officer Ms Jenny Lillingston, Finance Officer

14. CONSIDERATION OF THE ESTIMATES: The Chairm an called on the m atters in relation to the Housing and Regional Development portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

The Committee concluded its supplem entary examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 Ju n e 1995 in relation to the Housing and Regional Development portfolio, subject to undertakings by the officers to provide additional

inform ation to the Committee.

15. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.48 p.m.

16. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Abetz, Cooney, Ellison, Knowles, McKiernan, Short, Tambling and Vanstone.

Senators Baume, Boswell and Ian Macdonald also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Mai Colston Chairm an

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