DOUGHERTY, Mr Ken, Member, New South Wales and ACT Branch, Australian Services Union [by video link]

GASKE, Ms Emeline, Assistant National Secretary, Australian Services Union [by video link]

LACEY, Ms Jayne, Delegate, Victorian Private Sector Branch, Australian Services Union [by video link]

MOLLER, Ms Catherine, Delegate, Queensland Together Branch, Australian Services Union [by video link]

ROBSON, Ms Rhiannon, Organiser, New South Wales ACT Branch, Australian Services Union [by video link]

STURNI, Ms Imogen, Branch Assistant Secretary, Victorian Private Sector Branch, Australian Services Union [by video link]

[10:31]

ACTING CHAIR: I now welcome representatives from the Australian Services Union via videoconference. Do you have any comments to make on the capacity in which any of the witnesses appear today?

Ms Gaske : Jayne, Catherine and Ken are three of our members who are frontline airport workers. Jayne and Catherine are customer service staff for major airlines and Ken works for a ground handler.

ACTING CHAIR: I invite you to make a brief opening statement before the committee asks questions. Do you wish to make an opening statement?

Ms Gaske : Yes, I will, and then I will briefly hand over to our frontline workers, who have joined us today to share a bit about their experiences and concerns. Before I do that, I just want to highlight a few key issues that have arisen since the government announced the Retaining Domestic Airline Capability program a few weeks ago. The time tends to meld into one at the moment, but I think it was a few weeks ago. If I can, I will address four or five of the key issues and then hand over to my colleagues.

The first thing that has been a real problem is that these workers have been through the wringer in the last 18 months. This is a workforce that has been through an extraordinary time, and it goes without saying that we all know what has happened to these workers over the last 18 months, with border closures and whatnot. But I think the most heartbreaking piece of this puzzle is that in April and May this year the airlines were planning their ramp-up again. Workers were being brought off leave without pay, workers were being retrained and airlines were at 80 or 100 per cent of their pre-COVID capacity. It was a really hopeful time: maybe things were starting to get back to normal and maybe the workers who remained would be able to stay with the airline.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. Due to the outbreaks that have happened in Victoria and New South Wales, we are back where we were at the very beginning of this pandemic, if not in a worse position. The fact that workers were brought back and new workers were hired, only to then be stood down again, this time without access to JobKeeper, was a particularly heartbreaking piece of this story. I think the issue that we then faced around the announcement of the program was that there was a real lack of clarity for weeks about who would get money pursuant to the RDAC program, who would be eligible and how it would be paid. This was a time when we didn't have time to spare. Workers needed to understand how they were going to pay their rent the following week, not be standing around hoping that at some point the guidelines would be released and that they would be favourable to them.

Another big problem with the program is that—and I think the uncertainty was exacerbated by this—the money goes to the employer to do whatever they like with. It's very unclear how much of that money they need to pass on to the workers and under what circumstances. We had to spend weeks campaigning with one of the airlines just to get confirmation that they would pass on a mere $750 a week to the workers who were stood down due to the ramifications of the lockdowns et cetera. We think it's a real flaw in the program that the money is passed to the employer and the employer can do what they like with it.

Another flaw in the program is that the airlines are obliged not to lay people off until the end of October, when the scheme ends. I think that, if the purpose of the scheme is to retain a domestic airline capacity, a necessary part of that would have to be that the airlines agree that, in exchange for public funds, they would not be laying off their employees as soon as the scheme ends. I think it's a big flaw in the scheme that they're only obliged for the next six weeks not to lay people off and that thereafter the workforce is very uncertain as to what's going to happen. I don't think it's much to ask for some job security for your workers in exchange for significant amounts of public money to keep your airline going.

There are some other technical issues with the program that I encourage senators to look into in a bit more detail and perhaps talk to the department about. There are some really basic things that you could see were clearly the consequence of not having spoken with the frontline workers, which are flaws in the package. In particular, there's a lack of cohesion with the COVID disaster relief payments. Simply because of the timing differences and the way in which an airline might stand you down on a particular day—which doesn't align with the seven days set by Centrelink to be the relevant time in which you have to have lost 20 hours—workers will lose out on money even though they're being stood down for two weeks at a time and losing two full weeks of work. The simple timing difference means that there's a real risk they won't get paid under either the COVID-19 disaster relief payment or the RDAC scheme. I think that can't possibly be what was intended by the schemes.

There are two final observations I would make. We are gravely concerned that the RDAC payments aren't being made to employees outside of the major airlines. First of all, there are thousands of workers who never got JobKeeper, because of the eligibility rules, but even workers at ground handling companies that were eligible for JobKeeper are now left with nothing. After 18 months of really tough times, now is not the time to leave these workers with nothing. If we do want to genuinely retain a domestic airline capacity, we have to support the critical workforces that will deliver that airline capacity going forward, and that includes ground handlers. The fact that they have been excluded from this scheme is just another kick in the guts for those workers.

Finally, I want to make one observation about the International Readiness Program payment and the way that it interacts with the Retaining Domestic Airline Capacity scheme. As a consequence of the RDAC, the international readiness payments have been increased temporarily to $750. Previously they were at $500. That is at least an acknowledgement that $500 a week was not enough and that they shouldn't be paid less than their domestic counterparts. But we're concerned that, if and when the RDAC scheme ends, those international workers will be pushed back down to $500 a week, despite the obvious acknowledgement that that wasn't an adequate amount. We would like that to be confirmed at $750, going forward.

I will now hand over to the frontline workers to share a bit of their stories with you. I might go to Jayne first. Jayne is based in Melbourne.

Ms Lacey : I have been in the aviation industry for about 10 years. I'm currently in a role in guest services, and that is basically check-in and boarding flights et cetera—very much on the front line. There is no doubt that the pandemic has been a worldwide disaster for aviation and its employees. For instance, last year my last shift was on 29 March, and I did not return to my job until April this year. Whilst we were grateful for the government package, as you know it was on a decreasing level. I know that actually brought quite a lot of hardship to many of my colleagues, and some of them were left with no alternative at all but to take a redundancy and look elsewhere for work. As I said, I returned in April this year. When we returned, due to the redundancies and those people who were still on leave without pay, we were horrendously short of staff. The airline then took to the casual route of getting people on board. They trained them and gave them uniforms, at great cost to the airline. I can honestly say to you that, since that time, those people would have done hardly any work at all. They are only there on a casual basis, so they do not have any eligibility for any money from the airline. They won't be able to access the employee assistance program should they need it, mentally. They have no future job security and, depending on their personal circumstances, they may not be eligible for anything from the government package.

Nobody knew how this pandemic was going to run. I think that's a fair comment on behalf of the airlines. We were asked to choose dates, without all of the information, for when we might return to work, so that's what we did. We still have people who are on leave without pay. These people are due to return in October. Many of them will not return, for two reasons. They have found better employment and are getting better money. That's fair enough; one can accept that. You have to ask yourself: why would they return to be stood down? That would only cause them financial hardship. I appreciate that we have a financial package in place currently, but this has been really, really confusing. People have not understood it. I certainly couldn't possibly understand it as a layperson. I was a bit surprised that the first announcement on this package was for pilots and cabin crew. That left the rest of us wondering: what does that mean for the rest of the workers? We had to get clarification as to whether it meant all the workers or literally just cabin crew and pilots. Fortunately, it did include everybody in the airport.

I believe that, throughout this pandemic, the workers should have been connected more to the industry. We haven't been, and it has caused all sorts of problems. When we ramped up in April, it happened very, very quickly. People wanted to be out there flying again, and the reality was that we didn't have enough staff, because of redundancies and leave without pay, and those that had continued to work in the aviation industry were asked to do 14-hour shifts day after day. They were also denied leave. That is going to be what we face when we ramp up again, and that could be Christmas time. There will not be enough staff, and again we'll turn to the casual workforce. That's one of the concerns I have for the industry. Are we going to end up just being a totally casualised workforce, without job security and without many rights?

Finally, at the current time I'm actually stood down again, until 3 October. Who knows whether that will be our last standdown. I just don't know. But you have to ask yourself the question: how can the airline sustain all of these losses? One of the concerns we certainly have is whether we are likely to face more redundancies. That's it from me unless I can help you further with anything.

Ms Gaske : Thank you, Jayne. We'll ask Catherine to give a brief statement.

Ms Moller : I'm from Brisbane and I'm a customer service agent with a major airline within Australia. I have a very similar story to Jayne. I was stood down in early April of last year and then my first return to work was in December at Christmas, at which time I was required to retrain back into the role—but not fully, because various parts of my job require ongoing training and use of equipment, and for safety reasons I was not able to return to my full position because my certifications had lapsed. I was stood down again, and then there was nothing until April, and then I was stood down again.

Whilst we received JobKeeper, which really helped, unfortunately the amount of money that was being provided to us was scaled back. Many of my colleagues and I simply couldn't afford to even pay our mortgages. So it was an extremely stressful time for us, because when you can't pay a mortgage, let alone an electricity bill, it's extremely stressful for the family unit and for yourself. How do you move forward when you're not entitled to normal Centrelink packages yet you're not being given enough support by the government when, through no fault of your own, you're no longer able to attend work?

When they announced the international readiness payment of $500, after JobKeeper had ended, that was something. That was a great move forward, but it still was not enough for us to survive on. As Jayne said, they then announced the domestic readiness payment, which was $750. That was for cabin crew and pilots only, but there's so much more to an airline than just pilots and cabin crew. It's not only us customer-facing staff. There are a lot of people in the background who people don't realise that this is affecting: load control staff, planning staff and everyone like that. The domestic payment that was announced was $750, yet the international package was $500. Why was there this discrepancy in our workforce? It created some angst amongst our staff about who was eligible to get which payment and why one group was getting more than the other group. Then we managed to get the international payment up to $750. That was a huge relief to some staff, because that $250 extra a week means the difference in paying a mortgage or paying a bill or being able to survive in our households.

It's extremely important for me and my colleagues to know that, once the domestic retention payment has finished, it will still be $750 for the international package because, as we've seen, we're probably going to see domestic travel ramp up quickly, as it did the last time, and there will be a return to work for a lot of those people, but the international people may not return to work for months yet. So I'd really like to see the international payment extended and kept at $750, because I don't want to lose more of my colleagues. So many have had to take redundancy or just leave the business.

At the airline I work for, we've always said that we are a family, and it really is like that. Once you're part of our family, you're part of our family forever. It's very sad to walk into work and no longer see the majority of people I would normally see. That's my plea: please keep the international readiness payment where it is, at $750, so people can survive, because we need our jobs retained. People need to know that, at a moment's notice, we're ready to jump in and help the airline and the government get our international and domestic networks back up and running, and we need support to be able to do that at a moment's notice.

Ms Gaske : Thank you, Catherine. Finally, we'll hear from Ken, who works for a ground handler in Sydney.

Mr Dougherty : Good morning, Senator. Good morning, everybody. I hope you can hear me okay. I was employed by two ground handlers. I have worked for a ground handler in mishandled baggage for 15 years, and with Carbridge as a bus driver for eight years. In both jobs, we supported numerous international airlines. My work with both companies disappeared as soon as the borders closed. During JobKeeper, I was working only one shift a week with the ground handler at the international airport. Since JobKeeper ended, I've had no work with either company. In August last year, I realised things weren't getting better anytime soon and I applied for a job with a warehouse and I worked there casually until March this year. I'm now working as a bus driver and my income's roughly half of what it used to be last year.

All the full-timers have been stood down completely. They're getting no support from our employer. The part-timers are receiving about 20 hours every five weeks. There is very little work at Carbridge; 95 per cent of the work has gone. I honestly don't know how people are surviving. Heaps have had to resign, as there have been no redundancies and there don't look to be any in the future for the ground handlers, and they just can't survive with no income. One of my colleagues was a single mum. Unfortunately, she had to resign because she simply couldn't pay her rent. She had to remove her two boys from school and move to Queensland to live with her mum. That's how bad things have got. One of my other colleagues is married to another staff member from upstairs who works for an international airline check-in. Neither of them are receiving much income. They're getting 20 hours every five weeks for one of them.

The worst thing is not knowing what's going to happen. We could have two more years, or longer, of being stood down. I think there should be a statute of limitations as to how long staff can be stood down. My main employer has not made any redundancies through this entire stand-down period. We're all in limbo. We have no income from our employer. It's incredibly difficult to find work when you don't have any certainty about whether you're going to be brought back to the airport. Staff need certainty and financial support. I currently have about $14,000 worth of credit card debt I just can't pay down. When I went to get my COVID shot at the airport, I met a Qantas employee who was working at the check-in and we were just talking in general and he mentioned how he was getting JobKeeper, and I thought, 'That's finished,' but then I realised that the Qantas staff were still getting JobKeeper where the ground handlers were not. So for the ground handlers there's just no support, and it's really, really difficult financially. I had to put my mortgage on hold for six months until I managed to secure some permanent work, but it's just very, very difficult, not having any certainty and there not being any limit or any end to these stand-downs. Perhaps if redundancies were to happen, some staff could stay and some could get their full hours, but nothing has been forthcoming, unfortunately. That's my story.

ACTING CHAIR: Thank you very much to all of you for coming and for your time. I acknowledge the incredible distress that all this uncertainty has brought to those of you who've come today and for staff right across Australia. One of the things I'm really conscious of is this divide that we've got, of people who can keep working in their jobs because they've got a laptop and people whose jobs don't work like that. I think a lot about how we're creating this terrible division in Australia between businesses where you can work remotely and those where you can't, and of course the airline industry is in its own particular place of difficulty. So I'm very grateful for you coming to share your stories and acknowledge just how difficult it has been. I've been asking people who are giving evidence today about their industry's views on vaccinations and how that would work. Ms Gaske, perhaps you could comment on the views of the Australian Services Union on how we'll manage that moving forward.

Ms Gaske : Certainly. This is an issue that obviously the workers of the airlines are facing at the moment, as, in recent weeks, both Qantas and Virgin have publicly announced that they're going to introduce compulsory vaccinations for their airport workers from November. So that has obviously stirred up a lot of discussion and the like among the workforce. As a union, we're very supportive of people getting vaccinated as quickly as possible because, especially in this industry, we see that the way we will get workers back at the airport and planes back in the sky is through higher vaccination rates. We're very supportive of any measures that will achieve those higher vaccination rates. We've got some concerns about who is the appropriate person to be making decisions around when someone should be required to have a vaccination in order to do their job. Our view throughout this has been that it should be public officials making those kinds of decisions. However, since the airlines have made those announcements we're in consultation with our members and the airlines about how those policies will be rolled out.

Really, the biggest concern that we still have—and it's shocking to say this so many months into the vaccine rollout—is the workforce's access to vaccination appointments and supply. So we're redoubling our efforts to ensure that workers can access their jabs in time for the November cut-off that both of the airlines have talked about. We're also working with the airlines to ensure that there is fairness for employees who genuinely want to be vaccinated but haven't been able to access both of their vaccinations by that time.

ACTING CHAIR: I'll pass to Senator Sheldon, acknowledging that, unfortunately, we've only got four minutes left for his questions before we run out of time. But I'm very grateful to you all for coming today.

Senator SHELDON: Thanks, Ms Gaske, Ms Moller, Ms Lacey and Mr Dougherty. Your evidence in particular is very helpful for today. Having workers from the industry is really quite critical, giving it that hands-on feel. Ms Gaske, it appears that Qantas is working closely with the government, but we've heard from your evidence today that the government has not held a close consultation with the ASU about implementing these systems. I also note that the Aviation Ground Handlers Industry Alliance have turned around and said they believe the airlines could be grounded in November, December, January and February, right when the country needs to open up, because of the regional airport consequences of not receiving connection with the jobs. Do you have a view about those issues?

Ms Gaske : We're very concerned to make sure that as soon as we can get back in the sky there's a workforce ready to go. That's why every step of this last 18 months we've said we need a program that puts money in the pockets of workers, not employers, and that keeps employees connected to their jobs. Unfortunately, that's just not what's happening at the moment. We have sought on numerous occasions to consult with the minister. Just recently we've been able to have a meeting with the department, but that was once the guidelines were finished and we weren't able to make a proper contribution to that. That was pretty disappointing.

Senator SHELDON: Do you see there's a possibility that airlines will be grounded because of the lack of staff that have been retained within outsourced work and because of consequences within the airlines that directly employed as well?

Ms Gaske : I'm particularly concerned that there'll be a workforce ready to go that's trained and has the right skills to get the airlines back in the sky and working again. That's a particular challenge because of the number of employees leaving the airlines, and the ground handlers in particular. I think there is a real risk that the government hasn't properly realised the extent to which ground-handling companies are an essential part of domestic aviation capacity in Australia, and that if we don't have those workers ready to go, connected to the employer and trained then we are going to have a bit of a problem.

Senator SHELDON: I think the Aviation Ground Handlers Industry Alliance sent correspondence to the minister particularly regarding regional areas on 5 August this year and has still not received a response. Would you consider these outsourced workers are part of the essential service of aviation? Do you think the workers being outsourced are also essential, and not just the direct-hire aviation airline workers?

Ms Gaske : I think that all the workers are essential to getting the airlines working, and that's the piece of the puzzle that is being overlooked at the moment. It's not just direct-hire employees at a handful of airlines who keep our aviation industry going—it's also the workers in the ground-handling companies and the international airlines that have been overlooked. That's of grave concern.

Senator SHELDON: Thank you, Ms Gaske.

ACTING CHAIR: I thank all of you very much for your time and for coming to share your stories. Please know that you have been heard and that you go with the committee's thanks.

Proceedings suspended from 11 : 01 to 11 : 17