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Papua (British New Guinea) - Royal Commission of Inquiry into the present conditions, including the method of Government, of Territory of Papua, and the best means for their improvement - Report of ; together with Minutes of Evidence, Appendices, and Map [Part 2 of 2]


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~L~6. T!ze Cltair1Jta1L-Y0Lt stated a little tim' .a.go th::i.t yo'.l c :::: uld not recollect the conYersation?

817. lllr. lJoztehcr.-Yo-._1 asked me whe ther I rnuld r ::: me:.-nlc r the com·ers::i.tion. I said I could not., but I can rc:: olle:: t the impn~ssion at the time nused l>\· the interview bet\reen ::\Ir. Bramell and

Greene. -828 . . Mr. Okedcn.·-HO\\'

During the first portion, I ,ms \\'Orking. I ·heard

the l::ttter part of the conversation after Greene had b::en in tl--e offi ce some little time. 830. Mr. Okeden.-Wou!d th.a.t constitute such an offence against Greene as to make it a JJr Cl_'t' ·

thing to thro,\' him O'..It ?- A .. :.\Iy impressicn at the

time ,ms th:-it if it h::i.d o -::curred in .a, pri,·ate offic e. and Gre ne had spoken to me as he s,poke to ::\Ir.

Bran:ell, I ,rould have thrown him out. 83r. Mr. Hcrbcrt.-Surel:·, then, if your im­ pression ,ms so stron4~, You shculd be able to

r2meml:.,2r the com·ers.a.tion ?-A. I cannot recollect the conversation, but remember the impression that Greene was excited and said ,rords. that he ,rnuld not ha \'e used ordinaril , . .

832. Tlte C lwirman._:__VI ould you like tC' t:.3 ,'; any­ thing, Mr. ::\fosgrave? 833. l/1r. Musgrave.-::\Ir. Bramell made some remarks :-is to mv havin,g refused to take over the resncnsibilih·, .a.n·d I 1\'isb. to s.tate that as pointed out- in the -i)apers, I have never declined t!i.e re..::

sponsibilih attached to m,· office. At the time..:. J understC'o

he was un.able to. All I did was to repudiate the

respo·1sibility that rested with him as a rna.gistrette.

SIXTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 22ND SEPTEi\lBEl{, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, PORT MORESBY,)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E, Parry-Okeclen, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

l\Ir. E. H.a.rris, Secretary to the Commission.

CHARLE'S ROBERT BALDWIN was s,rnrn and examined, as follows,:-834. The C lwirman.-.What is your full name? -A. Charles Robert Baldwin. . . ?

835. Q. What is your occupat10n here.-A. I

am a .storekeeper at present. 836. Q. How long have you been in Papua?-A Fifteen ,·ears. . · l

's Q c· , ld ) IOU tell the Comm1ss1on \V )at 3 7' ' Oll . . · , be h . ?- \'OU ha Ye been domg smce you h:ne en ere ·f _ A At first I was trading along the coast. or B. Ph· 1' & Co. and then commenced business urns, 1 p, ' b t vo Year store- on mY own account. I h.ave een ' , . l . ·

0. tt. iiatdwirl, 22nd Sept., 1906.

for school, a.11 l the_ ha, had to Le nt away. t

l' r· · ent, there i. only one child. If a school ,rere

e tabli heel. it 1roulu be made use of. It would

Le accep.a.ble if the GO\·ernment ga\·e £1 for £1. and ,re \rould be ,rilling to agree to tha.t. That

i the opinion I haYe heard from the people re­

centh·. The rubber industry has been closed, and the Gm·ernment ha\·e acknO\dedged its own ,reak­ ness in not being able to protect the trees. The

industry shou•ld not be closed, but controlled. Only the fri1\ge of the industry has l;een worked on the cwst lines, and there the trees are rs,Yept by the

scu:h-east monsoons, and the sap obtained from those trees is not so good as that from the trees

inland in the bush. 838. Q. Are there large quantities of rubber in­ land ?--A.. Yes, I am convinced cf it. On the

coast, a tree \\"ill give from 4 to 6 lbs. of rubber,

whereas in tbe. bush a tree will yield 20 lbs,, ,vhere it is protected from the wind. There is a Village

Constable in each village, and he s,hould have suffi­ cient know ledge of his district to know where the trees are, and be able to protect them. If a man

worked the rubber to the detriment of the tree, the· Village. Constable could give information. 839. Q. Do you think it would be wise to put

a heavy penalty on any one destroying or injuring the trees (·-A. Yes. I know many trees have been killed. It would be easy to .ascertain who did it. 840. Q. Do you think the Resident or Assistant Resident Magistrate in each divi.Jsion would be able to find out through the natives who injured the

trees ?-A. Yes. 841. Q. Do you think there is a good prospect

for rubber plantations ?-A. Yes; this country is the home of the rubber tree. 842. Q. Would there be any difficulty in obtain­ ing labour ?-A. No.

843. Q. Do you think the time has a.rrived when the natives, both in their own interests and the in­ terests of the Territory, should be taxed ?-A. De­ cidedh·. I laid the matter before Mr. Atlee Hunt,

and tl1e Hon. }Ir. Gors went with me to explain

how the fax was worked in Fiji. 844. Q. What is the system there?-A. I think the natives are taxed £1 per head. It is paid in.

money or kind, such as copra or yams, and the

chief of each village collects it and pays it to the

Government Agent. If it is copra a tender is let

for all that is, collected, and it is delivered right on board the Government vessels. 8_~5. Q. Would that be a practicable ·system af far as Papua, is concerned? - A. If Sir W.

MacGregor's idea had been carried out and th~ : planting of trees enforced there would have been sufficient revenue from copra now to have paid :J wry fair tax.

846. Q. Can you say fron1 your own observatiom. that Sir William's regulation has not been carried out ?-A. The onlv trees I know of which haYe been planted are in the Rigo district. I travelled

along the coast six years ago, and did not find any trees planted then. 847 . . Mr. Herbert.-Do you think a hut tax

~rould be better than a personal tax ?-A. A hut

in the western division would contain 150 to 200 men. It would have to be a personal tax on the

adult population. Some few exceptions would have to be made, say, in the r.ase of a son supportinp

his widowed mother. 848. Q. What would be a fair tax tu impose ?-· A. I do net think 5s. a year would be out of the

way. There are very few natives who could not

s,pare that amount. A tax would induce the natives to work ..

..... . ....

0. it. Baldwih, z-ind Sept., 1906.

849. fifr. Okedc11. - - ith regard to th rubb r,

I . ,·e you had any per onal experience yourself?-­ A. l have not collected it m) elf, but 1 ha\'e be<.: :1

in the di tricts where it was collected. 850. Q. I it true th.at it is injuriou - to work

the tree during certain seasons uf the ) ear ?-A. i c should not be worked in the middle of the dn

wind , the outh-east season, as the sap does n~t

run. 85 r. Q. When you poke just now of the closing uf the indu try, did you know that there is a short

clo~e season from the end of June to DecemlJer ?­ A. They open the industry jus,t .at the time the

rubber cannot be collected. In the wet season when you tap a tree you get more water than sap. 852. Q. Do you think a close season is wrong?---.4. 1 t i fixed ±or the wrong time.

853. Mr. Herbert.- What time would you re­ commend for the close season ?-A. It would vary in each district. 854. Tlte C!tairman.--Is there anything else you

\Yish to place before us ?-A. Yes, in regard to

sandal wood. I .am the only successful sand8-l

wood getter who has taken money out of the trad~. The licence should be £4 a year. When the wood was pretty well cut out the licence fee ,ms raised to £[2 a year. It is more difficult to get sand.ti

wood now, and the expense is much greater. ff :r is required to make a revenue out or saridal wo,)J an export tax should be put on it. 855, Q. Then you thmk that only a nom111al

licence should be charged, and that an export dut-y should be . imposed? :__ A. Yes; say, about

£ r per ton. Another thing I would like to point

out is the ,my Government employes are treau~d. This refers only to one district. I laid the matt~r

before Mr. Atlee Hunt and Captain Barton, but the thing is still going on. It is a very hard chi11g

to prove. This man has been so long in the distrir.t and he has such power over the natives. that i.: is very difficult to get evidence from them. 856. Q. Who is the man ?-A. Mr. English, ~ne

Assistant Res.ident )1agistrate at Rigo. He has been engaged in trading for years. The Govern­ ment do not seem to get it out, or do not wish to get it out.

857. Q. Do you consider that he uses hi.s posi­ tion as a Government official to obtain an un. fair advantage over the out,side trader.-A . Yes. I am protected here? He Lrought an action against a man here and obtained damages. I am protected

here? 858. Q. Yes. Do you think that .all Governrncnt employes should be prevented from trading aito­ gefher ?-A. I would not carry it too far. i\.n

official may help in the development of the country by haring plantations, but this man has prevented the development of bis district, and the only man who is welcome there is the miner. Any other man

who goes there and wishes to trade has obstacles put in his way . Very likely when this is brought

before His Excellency he will say they have shifted the station, but they have done that to his

advantage. 859. Mr. Herbert.-You do not .say that the Ad-ministrator has shifted the station for the purpose of benefiting the Resident Magistrate ?-A. Rigo

station is within 40 miles from Port Ior by.

We generally haYe the staff here, al~hough we ha~'e not m.anv nolice in tmrn. If a1wthmg occurred m the Rig; -district it is very ea.;- to come to the

autbori tie here. Rigo i · tbe only station bet\\ een .

here and "'am::uai, 1 50 mile . Ahcut 100

odd miles from here, th('r' i. a floating- population of whit, men at the diggings at loudy Ba). Ar

am time these men ma\' com into colli ion with th· hiil trilJes. In the 'eYent of such a thing, the

near t protection the) could get would lie from

Rigo station, 80 or 90 mile. thi side, and

Samarai, 100 mil s the other side. ' ince 1 put

that before the Administrator, )Ir_ buce bad onh· r turned from .,. !ouch Ba,· recenth ov r ·ome mm~­ der down there. R·1go ration ha sened it day.

H remoYed at all. the tation ought to be removed half-,ra\ bet\\·een here and Samarai. 860. ,Q. Instead ot which it has been remm·ed where ?-A. A few miles further east th.an Rigo,

about 55 mile . This is a Ycry Jifficult

maner for me to pro,·e, but it wou l

it has. I suggest that the Resident )fagistrate

should be removed from the station for a wnile, so that they could get natn-es to giYe eYidence. Bur~s, Philp and Co. 's. books should Le ex.amined, and their books at Port Moresby would prm·e it to the hi.lt. In a tobacco journal ·\\"hich j had sent to me about a month ago, I see that Captain Barton, the Administrator ot rapua, states that the tobacco currency is a curse to the nati,·es. A tew months

ago, while looking for a missing case of mine in the Government Store, I saw a big case of tobacco marked " Kcrema," and found it was for )Ir.

Griffin, the Resident ~lagistrate. 1 was told each station has a sum allO\Yed for the maintenance, .a1:ici the magistrate took his allowance in tobacco. When I was ·with Burns, Philp and Co. they used to have se,,en vessels trading on the coast, and they have not one now. l\Ir. McAshman came in the other

could not get sago, and that the country from

Biereu to Orokola was swamped with Government tobacco. Their tobacco has stopped this man get­ ting sago. If you ,Yill look through :Mr. Griffin's reports, you will find he states how many thousands

of acres of sago swamps there are, and now you will haYe to go down a few hundred miles from ·my place to get sago. This district is now practically depending on the western district for sago. The

sago trade has, been carried on by the natives for time immemorial, before the white man came. In the old days it was carried on by the lackatois.

Landing so much Government tobacco in those vil­ lages has practically ruined the trade. 86r. Q. Mr. English, the Assistant Resident

~lagistrate in the Central Division, agrees ,rit11 you. He says one of the greatest curses to the natives is the tobacco trade ?-A. Yes. 862. Q. You ay you ha Ye a tobaccc journal in

regard to it?-A. Yes; but I have not got it now. 863. Tlte Clwinnan.-ls there anything else ?­ A. Yes; in regard to the water supply. There is

not a great population here, but we want ,rnter of some kind to drink. At the present time, most of the people here are drinking water taken frcm the well in the gaol yard. We have had diarrhcea and dysentery from it.

864. Q. Have you any suggestions to make in regard to the matter ?-A. For some time after I come here there wa a spring behind Government House, which suppli d this place in c.a e of need.

Pipes, were laid down from it to the ,,·barf facing Go\·ernment House. All the levels were taken to bring the \Yater into Port )foresby but somehow the money \\·as neYer found to do it. ince then,

I have ne,·er been there to ee if the pring i fail­

ing. \Ve ha\' had two verv cln· Y ar . The

ncare t supply I knmr of is the L;loki Rfr r. 865. Q. What ,rntild it cc t to hring the water

h ·re ?--.1 .. Tlwr ,rotild h 23 mil s, of pipes.

There is a f.all from th, Fall · of 2,000 f et. If

no one brings it fornard it will remain on th~

shelf.

~66. Q. is It your opinicn that the time has

arnved ·when the town should be gfren a pure

supply of water ?-A. Yes. There is also another matt~r. The1:e. i_s no. one to repres,ent the Central o~ "estern Divisions m the new LegislatiYe Coun­ cil. A member has been picked for Samarai and

W~dlark, and one for the Yodda. There are rnly th1ee. I do not see why two of those Di.visions

could ~1ot be knocked into one, and let us have

somethmg tc s,1.y on the Council. We have no re­ presentation at all. As the Council is now what

the Government says is practically I.aw. '

. 867. Mr. H erbert.-Are your interests and the u~terests of the Di:7is~ons, which . are represented, diverse ?~-A. Yes j :t is mostly gold mining at the o_ther e.1:ct. . There is a large section of the popula­

tion which is unrepresented. 86~. T lze C lzairman. -Do you think it at a 11

practicab;e to hrwe elector.al representatio.i.1 at the pres.ent time ?-A. It is rather premature. I pre­ fer the elected member, but I hardly think it would be possible at the present moment.

869. Q. Are you in favour of trial by jury at

the present stage ?-A. I am in favour of trial bv

jury if it is practicable. -

870. Q. You .are aware there are difficulties in a thinly-populated country ?-A. Decidedly. 87 r. Q. In addition to what you have said, have you any further complaints to make in regard tc

the Administration ?- A. 1 think what I have said covers what I wis.h to s.a.y. 87 2. Q. Do you think everything possible is being done to encourage settlement ?-A. I do not.

87 3. Q. Can you give any specific instanoes ?­ A. The place has been closed for three years. If

yc·u go to them for a piece of land on which to

build a house, they cannot give it. The offici:ils,

blame the Federal Parli,ament. I h:-:v-2 rot seen

the new Land Ordinance. I came back here t,vo

years ago, and was expecting a brother-in-law from Scotland. There were two-s_ pare allotments of l and here . I put in an application. Mr. Richmond

was Chief Government Surveyor at the time. I

guaranteed to have a house on the land in three

months. I saw the note that the Chief Governm0 nt Surveyor put in, advising the Governor to let the lot go. There was, no law against it at the time.

The Governor replied that he could absolutely do nothing until the Papua Bill passed. I did nc.t

get the land. 874. JI.fr. H erbert.-Would a lease for ninety­ nine years suit you just as well ?-A. It would be

quite as good as a freehold to mie. I · would be

satisfied with it. I gave £600 for the piece I have

hei-e. I can never get a piece from the Govern­

ment that I want. If it was not reserved at the

time, then a. reserve was put on it after. 8.7 5. Q. Arie tenders for Government stores

called for locally ?-A. Yes; lately they have been. I had a. tender for rice sent me lately.

876. l'!te Chairman.-Do you know the Merrie England ?-A. Yes. 877. Q. Do you think she is, a suitable boat for

the use she is engaged in ?-A. Yes j The most

suitable. 878. Q. I understand she draws 14 or 15 feet

of water ?-A. Yes, 879. Q. Do you net think that a vess,el of ligl1ter draught would Le more us,eful on this coast ?-A. We have very few harbors that she cannot g? into. '!'he Administr.a.tion could not h ave been earned on mth­

out a vessel like her. 880. Q. Do you net think her upkeep of £6,000 or £7, 000 per annum very large?-A. Yesj but I do not think yot,1 could get a steam vess,el of the

same power and coal capacity that could be worked

F , 14262.-C.

C. Il. Baldwin, 22nd Sept., 190G.

for less . If money could be sa.Yed by getting

another Ye s 1, then I say get her.

881. Q. It has been said that the l'tf errie ErtgZa1id is an unnecessary expense, and that the work d Gm·ernment could be carried on by means of the privately-owned teamers "·hich run on the coast? -A. I sa,· decidedh-, no. We haYe an immense.

coastline, ~nd a ves~l should be always at the dis­ posal of the Government. At any time she may be called from the Eastern to the Western Division. 882. Q. In ycm opinion then, is it impossible

to effectively carry on the administration of this country unless the Government have a vessel of their own ?- A. Yes; and decidedly a steam vessel at that.

883. Q. You think that the small advance the

country has ma.de is largely due to the way the

Territorv has been administered ?-A. Yes. We haYe so~e of the finest land in the world right at the dcor of Australia, and the exports of Port

)Jores by are only half what they were in 1892.

Things are at a standstill here. 884. Q. Has, a progressive policy been pursued by the present Administrator ?- A. No. 88 5. Q. H.as the policy been practically one of

p : 'icing the country and protecting the natives, wi 1:out much regard to white settlement in the cou r try ?- A. So far as I know tl,ere has been no

:i ttec. ;1t to push w bite settlement. 886. Q. Do you think that a vigorous roads,

policy would help settlement ?-A. There requires to be a main arte rv through the country from Pert Moresby to, say, Buna B.a.y, no matter what the cost. I could not say which was the best route.

SEVENTH DAY.

THURSDAY, 27TH SEPTEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C., Chairman; W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert,

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

ROBERT FLEMING JONES was s,worn and examined, as follows: -887. Tlze C ltairman.-What is your name?­ A. Robert Fleming Jones .

838. Q. What is your position ?-A. Govern­ ment Medical Officer. 889. Q. How long haYe you been in New

Guinea?-A. Two ye'ars in November. 890. Q. Ha Ye you spent all that time in Samarai? -A. Yes. 891. Q. Have you noticed any difference, from

a health point of view, since you came to Samarai? -A. I have 11ot noticed that there has been much difference. It is a rem::trkably healthy place for the tropics.

892. Q. Is it not very swampy?-A. The only swamp that was here has been filled in. Before

that was done the death rate was high. Last year I examined over 400 mosquitoes from different part~ of the island without finding a single malaria.1-bearing mosquito. We have no indigenous malari.1I

mosquito.

1t. r. jones, 2ith Sept., 1906.

893. Q. If the ame cour e of action \,·ere taken iil any part of 1ew Guinea, would it produce the

same result ?-A. Yes, 894. Q. Are any other method used here?­

A. In Samarai it is not necessary, but I ,rnuld .ad­ vise people to use mosquito nets in the fir t case,

and white people should not build their house

quarters ,rithin 400 yards of the natiYes, as nati-re children are nearl)i always affected with malaria. 895. Q. You ha.Ye a certain amount of venereal

disease here ?-A. Yes. 896. Q. How ha it been introduced ?-A. It

has been here for a great number of years, and was introduced by the lower class of immigrant, Greeks, ~Ialay boys, and the most worthless. class of white people. They think no more of a native than kill­ ing a mosquito.

897. Q. Would you favour an Undesirable Im­ migrant Restriction Act ?-A. I do not think it

would be possible to work one here. 898. Q. Would you be in favour of giving the

Government power to deport frcm the place any man who had a disease:, or proved to be meddling with the natives ?-A. That might ha.ve a favorable effect on the situation, but it would be a difficult matter to find out the men who were spreading the disease.

899. Q. If it could be made practicable, do you think the deporting of these men would be a good thing from the stand-point of the natives' health? -A. It would have a favorable impression, but it

has such a strong hold now that it would be most difficult to stamp out. 900. Q. Could you offer any suggest~ons in re­ gard to minimising the evil ?-A. We are keeping it in check to some extent byj means of the Lock

Hospital, but the only measure that would be likely to have a decided effect upon it would be to treat it a.s leprosy is treated, and I do not think that is

practicable. We certainly should keep it in check. We have sometimes cleaned out a village of it, but it has scon afterwards broken out again .. 901-2. Q. How many are there in the hospital?­ A. Eighteen or nineteen to-day. The average is about thirty, and I have had as many as fifty. The hospital will hold sixty.

903. Q. In the Papua Act there is a clause which provides for 10 per cent. of the revenue from the lease of land being devoted towards the help of the infirm and destitute native. Do you think it would be Letter to devote that money to the stamping­

out of this disease ?-A. I do not think there is

anv necessity for such a sum for the infirm and

ag~d natives. We are keeping the disease in

check, but I do not think it is absolutely hopeless to stamp it out among the people. 904. Q. Have you sufficient funds at your dis­ posal to keep it in check ?-A. We have sufficient funds for the next two or three years, and then the

hospital will either have to be closed or further

funds provided. 90 5. Q. Would not the contribution from the land revenue be put to a useful purpose by pro­

viding for the upkeep of the hospital ?-A. Yes. I do not think this venereal disease will ever be

stamped out. It is one of the causes which tend

L, make the natives die out. Here we only get a.

small fractioni of the cases. They are afraid to

come under treatment. When. we get people from a neW' focus they are very/ bacl, and probably the whole district is affected bv that time, and when the,· see the benefit of our 'treatment they come in rnl~ntarilv. -

906. llir. H erbert.-Is it of an extreme charac­ ter ?-A. When we g t holct of a simple mild case it yields quickly to the treatmen:t, hut g nC'rally it is more

84

907. Q. I. it amoug the children?--A. ~ o.

908. Q. Is it likely to become general ?-A. Ye, unles. precautions are taken. 909. The Clwirman.-Is there any medical man in the _ -orthern Division ?-A. _ -o.

910. Q. Do you get any cases from there?­

A. Yes, an occasional nafo·e; and most of the

white people when they suffer from ill-health come to me for advice. 911. Q. Has this particular disease spread to

the ~ -orthern Di,·ision ?-A. I have had very few cases, but it does exist. I do not know how bad

it is.

. 912. Q. As far as the ~orthern Division is con­ cerned, is it nort a. fact that the men who are re­

sponsible for its introductiorn are not the miners, but the beach-comLin1g class ?-A. That is so. I \rould like to forward a report to the Commission about venereal disease in this Territo,n-, and will prepare it and send it to you. ,

913. Q. Do )·ou see any reason why a white

population should not be settled in Kew Guin.ea?­ A. );o, so long as reasonable precautions are taken. This is not a trying climate for the tropics. I

have been fifteen years in the tropics, and know

no better place. I do not think the climate of New Guinea is so dreadful as it is stated to be.

WILLIAM BENJAMIN PATCHING was sworn and examined, as follows:-914. The Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. VVilliam Benjamin Patching.

915. Q. What is your present occupation ?-A. A~r~ted water manufacturer, auctioneer, and com­ m1ss1on agent. 916. Q. How long have you been here?-A.

About six years. I am a married man, and in my

absence .my wife carries on my business. I go to

Woodlark, the Trobriands, Euna Bay, Cape Nel­ son, the l\Iambare River, St. Aignans, and Sudest. 91 7. Q. I understand you wish to place some

matters cefore the Commiss,ion ?-A. I would like to say that I have had experience in other parts of the world, .and Cooktown, Port Darwin, and

Western Australia. As an Australian, I should say that,. so long as nominee representation continues, the rnterests of the general white public will not be adequately conserved, because the majority of the white people are in favour of elective representa­ tion, with the exception of the Government officials, the employes of Burns, Philp, and Co., and their manager j R. and W. Whitten, and the manager of J. Clunes & Co.

918. Q. Do you mean that, with the exception of those you mention, the remainder are in 'favour of elector.al representation ?-A. Yes. Some time in August, 1905, a public meeting was called in

Samarai, a.nd 26 people attended, who were all males, and they appointed me chairman. I read the notice calling the meeting to consider the advisa­ bility of sending out petitions to different parts of British Tew Guinea, asking for elective representa­ tion and trial by jury. The meeting decided unani­ mously that petitions should be sent. and even tu all\' the Woodlark petition reached the Prime Minister. -

919. Q. Can you give the Commission any idea of th number of signatures attached to the peti­

tions when they were returned ?-A. There is an­ other now in ci;culation, which is not completed. 920. Q. You say that one petition was ent to

Woodlar1', and it ,rn returned to Ir. Deakin.

What became of the others ?-A. The other. \Yere sent to me, and T then s nt th m to l\fr. Atle Hunt.

They were received from Yodda, ::\Iambare, .and

d1bara. w~ sent 6rte to the Western Divi ion, and did not receive a reply.

. 921. Q. How many signatures were on the r;eti ­ tions ?-A. Three-qua~ters of the white population of Papua. At. that time the population was about 500, an? I th1~k three-quarters of those signed. They will be with Mr. Atlee Hunt. I got an

acknowledgment from him of them.

~22. Q. So that three-quarters of the white :r: opu­ lation expressed themselves in 'favour of electoral re­ pr:sen~ation and trial by jury ?-A. Yes. The main thrng 1s electoral tepresentation.

923. Q. Could you give us any concrete reason, apart from what you have said, why it would be for the benefit of Papua to have it ?-A. The people :Vould then appoint a man who would look after the interests of the wl:iite people. I am referring to

electe~ representatives to the Legislative Council here, rn place of the present nominee system. A

man has special favorites, but it would be fair for the member to be elected by the people. The

ge~eral welfare of the country, including both

whites .and blacks, would be considered if electoral representation were carried out. The interests of the blacks would be better studied under that svs­ tem. We have missionaries who are autocrats. The Missions are always for the black mar:. If it were not for the white man there would be no revenue. The whites found the g0ld, and they have never

been considered. 924. 11!/r. Herbert.-How do :you know they would be considered under the new system ?- A. I cannot say they would. -

9 2 5. Q. Do YOU not th'ink it is too early to intro­ duce the system in this country ?- -A. I do not. A

great rush may break out to-morrow, and thousands of people come here. 926. Q. Do you not think that ur.der r,resent con­

ditions the present system is better, and then, when you get those thousands of population, that would be time then for electoral representation ?-A. I think we should have it r.ow, in readiness. One

man writes to me saying, "Take no notice of the nominee system, it is an absolute 'farce. Eight men voted for . a man named Litt] e, and he is virtually Moncktor.'s nomination. The man was appointed, and recommended at a meeting held .afterwards."

927. The Chairman.-Did the Resident )Iagis­ trate call a meeting of diggers to nominate a man for this appointment ?-A. It was a meeting of

assessors, ar:d, I understand, was called after the man was appointed. I am speaking from memory, and the meeting .may have been called by Mr.

Thoresby. The assessors do not constitute public opinion. Little was elected on eight votes. Mr.

Deakin will now say that the people of New Guir:ea have been consulted, and have nominated Little. 928. lib. Herbert.-You say eight men chose Little. How many votes were cast against him in favour of any other man at the meetir.g ?-A. I do not know.

929. Q. Were they unanimous at the .mee~ing of assessors ?--A. I do not know. I do not thmk so.

Mr. Dan Horan, of Yodda. Valley, was my infor­ m.ant. There was no vote taken at Gira and

Mamba re. 930. The C lia.irman.-Do you not thin~ there would be considerable difficulty in introducing the elective system at present, '"T here the men are s.o little fixed in their occupations ?-A. I do not. You have the postal ballot system in Australia, and it'

would be carried out here. 931. Q. But there is no gu_arantee that lPtters

are delivered inland ?-A. I thmk letters could be delivered at the gold-fields within a fortnight. C 2

· . B. Patohih~, 2ith pt. , 1906.

93.J. . What qualification would you suggest?-A. Oi: the other side they have the six months' resi­ dence, and I should say the same thing should apply here.

933. Q. Then you would be in 'favour of the six­ months' residential qualification ?-A. Yes. 934· Q. You sent .a, petition from Samarai ?~ A. Yes; that was in August, 1905, and since

then ::\lr. Horan interviewed Senator Givens in

from the people he would do his best to get it dis­ cussed. I have here several petitions, one signed by 50 people from Samarai. I haye found that the Woodlark petition has been behind Clunn and Co.'s

safe for six weeks. They stated that it had been

put behind with same other documents. The

Samarai petition is dated 18th June, to Senator (?ivens. Sig:riatures are still coming in. The peti­ t10n5i f:om G1ba.ra, Wattle Bay, Port Moresby, Gira, and A1kora, and others, are still to come in. The Hon. F. W~ekley, one of the nominees to the Legis­ lative Council, has signed the petition for electoral representation.

935. Mr. Okeden.-You signed the petition your­ self ?-A. Yes. 936. Q. Had you been offered a seat en the

Council, as things are now, would you have ac­ cepted ?-A. No. I would have been a nominee of only one man. Mr. Weekley is a .man who would be elected to-morrow. I could present a petition with

60 signatures asking me to be nominated, but I do not believe in being put in as a nominee of one

man. 937. T lte C hairman.-You are also in favour of trial by jury ?-A. Yes. 938. Q. Will you state some of your reasons for that ?-A. I can only repeat the reasons that were given to King John at Rur.nymede.

939. Q. You, no doubt, know that there must

be certain panels, which can be challenged by the Crown and the prisoner, and it may be likely that a r.umber of the panels will bec0.me exhausted, and remembering the fact that there is at present onlv a white population of 700, do you think trial by j~ry, could be carried out without delays being caused by the di.fficulty of getting jurymen ?-A. In Port Dar­

win they have only six· jurymen in civil cases and twelve in criminal ones. We only want the prin­ ciple of trial by jury.

. 940 . . !Jl.r. H erbert.-How could you get the prin­ ciple without the necess,ary jurors ?-A. You have not twelve men inJ every case. 941. Q. You must have twelve men for a capital offence, and what would you do if you could not get twelve?

942. The C!tairman.-Wouid you have enough men in a place like one of the gold-fields ?-A. You would not try a man for his life there. In Aus ..

tralia they woulo take the prisoner to the nearest centre to stand his trial. 943. Q. Would you bring a man 'from Yodda to Samarai ?-A. Certainly. Let justice be done at any price.

944. Q. Then you would only propose to have the same Courts as exist at present ?-A. Yes. They could be held twice a year at Samarai, W oodlark, and Port Moresby.

945. lib. Herbert.-Twice a year at each place? -A. Yes, you have the Merrie England to cor. veyi the Judge. One of the greatest objections in con­ nexicJn with the present system is that one can never

I earn wher. a trial is to be fixed for. 946. T!te C!tairman.-Then one of. your objec­ tions to the present system is that there is no defi­ nite date fixed for trials ?-A. That is so. They

will not fix a. date within three months. I wanted to bring my brother over to defer.cl a man named

W. B. Patching, 27th Sept., 1906,

36

Wolf, but they would not fix a date within three months. I wrote to Judge Murray, but he said he could not fix a date.

947. Mr. Herbert.-Then, would it not have been as well for you to have asked the Administrator to see Judge 1viurray and ask him to fix a. date ?---:il.. No. There is no telegraphic communication with

Port :Moresby, ar.d the Merrie England is not at the disposal of Judge Murray. 948. Q. You wrote to the Judge?-A. Yes. 949. Q. Could he not have placed the matter be­

fore the Administrator? You say he could not have fixed a date, beca.use the Merrie England was not at his disposal ?-A. Yes. 950. Q. It was1 a case of importance?-A. Yes.

95r. Q. Then, seeir.g that the Judge was unable to appoint a date, as he had not the Merrie England at his disposal, could he not have seen the Admin­ istrator and fixed an approximate date with -him?­

A. I think he had to wait 'for the Administrator. 952. Q. What do you mean by that ?-A. I thir.k the Administrator has to run the show. 953. Q. Was the Administrator at Port Moresby?

-A. He only looks after hims.elf and

done other than what he did. 955. Q. Why?-A. Because he has no ccntrol over the. Merrie England. He might have done so. I do not · know whether he did or not.

956. Q. You said 1:t- was no use his going. Why? -A. Because I think it would have been no earthly use. 957. Q. Why?-A. Because I think the Ad-

minis,trator does not like any white man. _

958. Tlze Chairman.-You have made a state­ ment that }·ou do not think the Administrator does not care for any white man; that is, I presume,

any white man's interests.?-A. That is my

opinion. 959. Q. Why is it your 9pinion ?-A. He does care for his Government officials, but as, for c:ut­ siders, he does not ca.re a continental about them.

960. Q. Have you any personal reason to com­ plain about the Administrator ?-A. No; he has .a.lways treated me as a gentlema:ni. 96r. Q. Have you known any man whom he has

treated as he should not have been treated ?-A. Nir. Robert Bunting had to leave the country and · obtain a living elsewhere becaus,e w];ien be applied for a recruiting licence he was told to come

twelve month5i hence. Gim.a;, on whose evidence Buntino- was convicted by Judge Murray; was him­ self co~victed l,y Judge Robinson for perjury, and now that man occupies a position as Vi11age Con-stable.

962. Mr. Herbert.-Can you quote any other instance to back up your statement that the Ad­ minis,trator cares nothing for the interests of the white man ?-A. There is the ca:se of O'Brien, a

white man, being in charge of a black man. 963 . Q. Any other ?-A. I think Captain Barton is an Imperialist of the highest order, and 1elieves in cocoa-nut plantations, and that sort of thing,

to send the country ahead. I do not believe in it.

I would r.ather have mining. 964. Q. You have no other reasons?-A. No. Captain Barton has always treated me as, a gentle­ man, but the real reason is that be lacks adrvinis­

trative p9wer. He cannot keep his house in order. He lets his une1er-str.a:ppers boss, him, and they can tell him what they like, and he believes it. 965. Tlze Clwirman.-Have · you am- views to

put before the Commission in regard to land ad· ministration ?-A. I have carried on the husiness of an auctioneer for the las.t three years, and con-

ducted a comm1s 10n agency business, and have had to deal with applicat10ns for land. Clients haYe asked me whether they could secure so many acres of land, say for sis.al hemp growing or cocoa-nut

planting, during the last three years, and my repl _­ bas inv.ariably been that I would not advise them t r.· take up land in British New Guinea. They

simply pay the application money to the Govern­ ment, and the Government stick to it for three

years. 966 . Q. Can you give -~n instance in which the Government have done what you say ?-A. I do 11ot say it i~ the fault cf the officials. It is the

fault of the natives. I wrote to the Resident

~fagistrnte on the 7th August, 1903, respecting an amended application for land. This application was originally put in for a freehold under the

Ordinance. That Ordinance has never been re­ pealed, and is still in force. I w.as told by the

Resident Magis,tra.te that there was no probability of getting freehold, that I had better amend the

application and make it for leasehold. 967 . Mr. H erbert-:-When were you told that? --A. Just prior to the date of that letter.

968 . Q. Had you not been told tha.t scrne. con-sideraLle time before May, 1906 ?-A. No. 969. Q. Did you not know some considerable time before May, 1906, that no issue of fee-simple

was tc be granted ?-A. Yes. 970. Q. So therefore yOu were not altogethN surpris,ed when you were told? When were the instructions given that no fee-simple was to be is­

sued ?-A.. I do not know. I was instructed to

take up 240 acres and other land, but I told my

clients it was, simply usfless. 971. Q. Had Mr. Garruth received .any reply to his application of November, 1903 ?-A. I do not know of my cwn knowledge. I believe not,

because I financed him. In fact, I was told that

he had no right to be on the land, as it belonged

to the natives. 972. Tlze Cliairman.-This acknowledgment is dated 25th June. There is no delay there ?-A.

No. After I a pp lied for .a: leasehold there was

no unreaspnable delay. No attempt was made to purchase that land from the natives until the latter end of 190 5 ~ and the Government had received the money in 1903.

97 3. Q. Have you read the new Land Ordinance? -A .. Yes. 974. Q. Do you think it will lead to improve-

ments in }.and matters ?-A. Yes; if the Admin­ istrator insists upon the Resident Magistrates and Land Officers, doing their duty and settling matters one way or another. It is absurd keeping a man

here waiting for a decisian so long, and it is ex-

pensive for the man. 975. Q. Then vcu think the Land Ordinance will work well if the officials cany out their duties

promptly ?-A. Yes. 976. Q. More promptly than they have done in the past ?-A. Yes. The ]and is reasonable other­ wis,e. The natives have a habit of spreadin_g- them­

selves over a large tract of ccuntry and that makes less land available for settlement. 977. Q. Have you known of any cases where

natives have come from a totally different p:irt of the country to claim land they had no right to

claim ?-A. Yes;_ I have known them come a

distance of 60 miles. lJ p to the present Magis.trates have re.ally had no info!mation to supply to immi­ grants in regard to land. I consider that the

Magistrates in this DiYision are doing- th ir l,est to carrv out th duties intrusted to them. The

Reside.1it M.agistrates haYe to do many things. He has to be a policeman work up a case, take out

37

a wa~Tant, l>ring up the 12.risoner before himself try him and sentence him. I think the case would

be met by appointing a man from Australia to work up these cases, :ind the Resident :Magistrate would then knO\~ .nothn:g about them. until the man was brought_ before him. There are nC' equivalents, in

the native tongue to many of our English words ~n

and ~.R. ~1., 1

before being appointed, shcnld Le exammed 1D tne Laws and Ordinances which tlv-' y have to administer. -

97_8. Mr. Okeden.-Having interpreters woulJ entail great expense ?-A. £1,000 would pay for four. ·

EIGHTH DAY

FRIDAY, 28TH SEPTEMBER, 1006.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honora1le J. A. IC l\1ACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HONORABLE ALEXANDER MALCOLM CAMPBELL, M.L.C., was sworn and examined, as follows:--979. Tlte Chairman.-What is vour name?-A .. Alexander Malcolm Campbell. ·

980. Q. What position do you cccupy ?-A.

Senior Resident Magistrate for tbe Territory, ancl Resident Magistrate for the Eastern Division. I am also a member Gf :the Legislative Council. 981. Q. How long have you been in Papua?­

A. My firs,t appointment was on the 16th Amil, 1886. 9 8 2. Q. Where were you before ?-A. In the

South Seas, where I was in the Post Office and

Custcms Office. :My experience ranges over twenty-five years. 983. Q. What are your duties and powers in

your present position ?-A. I have all -the powers under the different ordinances that a Resident

Magistrate has, to hold court, and so forth, and

powers that are not definitely laid down, such as the supervision of the district. 984. Q. So that your duties. are the general

sup2rvisim of the dis,trict and the meting out cf justice?-A. Yes; and I have a1so charge af

public works_ 985. Q: Are you in _charge of the Native C:on­ st.abulary in your district ?-A. I am the responsible officer, but Mr. Turner, who is alsci an officer, does

all the detail work.

986. Q. Are many natives, recruited from vour district for work on the Mam bare ?-A.. Last -rear 500 were recruited from the Eastern Division for the Jo rthern Division.

987. Q.- Is it made perfectly clear to those

natives bv the recruiters as to the class of wcrk

they will .have to do, and the conditions p_rev:ailing_ where they h.a.ve to go ?-A. In the maJontv of

cas,es, I tnink i t is. When I ~ h~re I see each

hov mvself .and initial every application, and when I ;m abse~t Mr. Turner d~s it.

A.. 1\.I. Campbell, 28th Sept., 1906.

988. Q. Is it not becoming somewhat difficult to ind~ce boys to sign on for the Northern Divi­ sion ?--A. It is for a certain class of work-that

is, carr) ing. If there was no carrying on the

northern gc,ld-field labour ,rnuld be plentiful. The,· do not like the carrying. 989. Q. HaYe you ever thought of the Govern­ ment taking over the recruiting themselves ?-A.

Yes ; I am a firm believer in that, and also return­ ing the labourers. to their homes · after they have finished their term of service. It appears to me to be only a question of money, and if any difficul­

ties exist they ,rnuld dis,appear. 990. Q. How much does the recruiter get for

each boy ?-A. From £3 to £4- from the employer, without the cost of transport. 99r. Q. Supposing the Merrie England were utilized for carrying boys, and the Government' charged an emplo yer a slightly lesser fee than the

private recruiter, do you think that the scheme

could be carried out without a loss ?-A. The

i1J errie England is not the right class of vessel for

the purpose.. 992. Q. If a, right class of vessel were used 1 ?­ A. The initial expense would be heavy. The miners and other employers would be quite willing to pay

the Government £4 a boy. I think it would pay

interest on the initial experJse. 993. Q. Have you ever considered the question of the Government undertaking the whole of the transport for the Nmthern Divisioru ?-A. I would

not care to venture an opinion now. I have never been in the Torthern Division. 994. Q. Assuming that the GoYernrnent could undertake this work, do you consider that the

transport would be carried on: in a more satisfac­ tory and regular manner, and in the interests of

the miners and others, than by private people?­ A. I .am doubtful of it. 99 5. Q. Do you not think that boys, knowing

they were working for the Government, would be more likely to do their work and less likely to

desert ?-A. I do. 996. Q. But on the other pcrints, not having had experience irn the Northern Division, you would prefer not to express an opinion ?-A. That is so.

997. Mr. H erbert.-Would you give the sole right to recruit to the Government ?-A. I would not make it a hard-and-fast rule. If a planter

wanted to recruit boys for his own plantation I

would let him. 998. Q. But there wciuld be no middleman to recruit, except the Government ?-A. I l,elieve in that.

999. Q. You would allow planters to obtain

labour for their own plantations ?-A. I would allow them to recruit lal-::our for themselves if given a permit, and under certain conditions. moo. Q. Do you not think in certain cases it

would be a wise thing ta charge an annual licence­ i ee for e,·ery n.afr,-e a man employs, as a me ans of revenue, to cover cost of supervision ?-A. I think that would be a tax upon the person we want to

encourage irn this country . We ,rant to make the charge as light as possible provided the interests of the natives are safeguarded. rnor. Q. I understand that the Native Ordinance

has been altered to enable native labour to be en­ gaged for three )1ears instead of one ?-A. Yes, e:xcept for the carryjng, which is for eighteen

months. 1002. Q. And the fee charged is rs. on signing

on and rs. when paying off ?-A. Yes. 1003. Q. Do you not think that Government

supervision during that term of three vears is ne-:essary ?- A. Yes. ·

A. M. Campbell, 2 th Sept., 1906. 38

1004. Q. Then can you sa that the 2s. will

cover the cost of supervision during that time?­ A. There are no natfre labour inspectors who have not other duties to perform.

1019. Q. Do you not think the natural tendency of the natiYe will be to decrea e and not increa. e? ~A. Yes. In some districts they may increa e.

It i hard to say.

1005. Q. But have you not to look ahead to in­ creased labour demands ?-A. Yes. 1006. Q. And also to increased expense for

supervision ?-A. I do not know whether increasing the fee ·would be a good thing. I have a doubt

either way. 1007. JI.fr. Okeden.-Under present conditions do you think it would be a good thing?-A. No. 1008. Q. Do you not think the returning of the boys to their homes a most important thing?­ A. Yes. He has his tweh·e months' wages with

him, and if you do not watch him closely he will give most of his trade away .. 1009. Q. In the case of boys absconding, what safeguard is there of their receiving any payment due ta them? Do the employers always report?­ i1. In this Division they do. If they take out a

warrant we do not insist upon wages being paid. When a warrant is taken out and the boy is appre­ hended, it is decided what time he worked and the money is paid.

1010. Q. Are there any outstanding claims in your district ?-A. Na. When a boy is appre­

hended we check his statement with that of the em­ ployer. In the Northern Division there is some difficulty about missing boys. 1ou. Mr. H erbert.-Have you the right of

initiation in matters connected with working your district, without re;erence to Head-quarters ?­ A. Only in small matters which cio not cost a large sum of money to carry out. We get the prison

labour for any small work without reference to Port Moresby, such as making a road or improving the town. 1012 . T!ze Clzairman.-In the case of a n:1tiYe being brought before you, what is your method of getting evidence from that native ?-A. If the native cannot speak English, and he comes to

Samarai, ·we have a paid interpreter. Ini other

cases, one of the Armed Native Constabulary, who are recruited from all pa1is of the Division, will be found to speak his dialect. 1013. Q. In view of the fact that several dia­

lects are spoken in your Division, it has been sug­ gested that a white man should, in the cause of

justice, be appointed Native Commissioner to do the interpretmg. , Do you think that is necessary ? ---A . I think it would be desirable.

1014. Q. Does it ever happen that a native from one district will go to another to iay claim to land which he really has no right to ?--A. X o, T think not. Not from one district to another.

1015. Q. Is it a fact that in some cases nati,·es

have been known to Jay claim to land ,Yhich has not been utilized at all for the purpose of blocking settlement ?-Yes, I know of instances which

occurred some eighteen months ago in my DiYision. 1016. Q. Do you think that state of things

likely to, increase as they discoYer that ]and is r -quired for white settlement ?-A. Yes. 1017. Q. You have r ad the new Land Or­

dinance ?-A. Yes. 1018. Q. Do you think it would bt a wise thing to put in a compelling clause afeguarding nati,·es' interests, to enable the Government in case of

natives refusing to sell land at a reasonable rat , to uuy the land ?-A .. Yes, I think so. Tt is net

rf'quired so much at the pre. ent time, hut we m11. t look to the futur . I ,rould not onh- gfre the

nati,·e a. much land as he require , but . o much

again, and pay him uouble what he now asks for the remainder.

1020. Q. Then they should have a liberal allow­ ai:ce of land ?-A. Yes. 1021. Q. Do you think the time has arrived

when, both in the interests of the native and the

Administration, some form of taxation should be levied on the native population ?-A. I believe in a form of taxationl- but think it would be very diffi­ cult to collect. I believe in the principle. If it

took the form of cocoa-nut planting, each village being compelled to plant so many cocoa-nut trees, an:d keep them clean, it would be a very good thing, and keep them at work. The nati\-e has nothing to do, and it would be a very good thing to make

him work. I als.o think it would be a very good

thing to have Government plantations in certain dis­ tricts, and the natives compelled to give so many days a year in keeping them cle·an. That would be a form of tax.a.tion.

1022. Q. ls, there in your division a large area

of land suitable for tropical agriculture ?-A. Yes . ro23. Q. What products would you suggest as being suitable ?-A. Rubber, cocoa-nuts, and suga.r. There is land in Mullins Ha1;bor suitable for this.

ro24. Q. Is there any land suitable for cattle?­ A.. Yes, but not of a very large area . 1025. Q. Supposing a number of settlers were to come tc' your Division at the present time would you be in a position to put them on the la~d ?- A. Ko, because the land has noi been acquired .

1026. Q. Do you not think that it should be laid down as a principle that before settlers are inducec~ to come to this place, land should be acquired ?-A. Certainly.

1027. Mr. Herbert.-How do you propose to make land available ?-A. By purchasina as, much as possible from the natives, and decla~ing waste and vacant those lands not used by the natives.

l1n til quite recently the Resident Magistrate had no p.ower to buy land without reference to Port

Moresby. Consequently he frequently on hi,s trips saw land which the natives were willing to sell, but by the time he referred the matter to Port l\Ioresbv, and got authority to buy, the natives would not seil.

Kow the Resident Magistrate has power to buv with-out reference to Port l\Ioresby. ·

1028. Q. Do you think, in view of the early

demand for land, that the present provision in the draft land ordinance a.is to securing the Crown

land will meet the case with the present staff of sur­ veyors, or even with a fairlv reasonable demand?-­ A.'. I think there should be· at leas.t one surveyor or assistant in each Division.

1029. Q. Do you not think it very desirable that Crown land sho~ld be separated as ~oon as possible from nati,-e land ?-A. Yes. 1030. Q. And that can only be done bv a large

staff of surveyors ?- A. Yes. · ·

1031. Tlte · C!tainnan.-From ,Yhat you fiaye heard, do you think it would l.Je a Yen- advisable t hing to have a timber expert sent to ;amine and report on timber possipiliti.es in this country ?-'-A. Yes, to all the di tricts.

1032. i11r. Herbert.-Tbe rnrmng Jmrs of the Territor - are Queen land laws .:i dopted ?- A. Yes, with a f w modifications. 1033. (). How i it posibJ for right to mine

10 ht> obtained OY r lands all er cl by th natiYe to

belong to them ?- A. o far a, T kno\\- it has for­

tunately happened that non of th' gold-fields hay been on native gard n or land .

89 Isadore Herschtel, 28th Sept., 1906.

1034. Q. But how could they be obtained if gold were found on native land in future ?-A. 1 hey could not unless the land were purchased. 1035. Q. Then you think the native has also the minerals conserved to him ?-A. I think there ma\' be complications. If the miners were to tear up

the natives' gardens and rich ground, trouble would arise. 1036. Q. Do you think the provisions of the

Queensland Act would apply to the peculiar owner­ ship of the natives here ?-A. I do not think so. 103 7. Q. Have you considered the possibilities of gold dredging in your district ?-A. There was

some talk about it years a.go, but I have no faith in it. The rivers here are not suitable.

1038. The Clzairman.-With. the advance of settlement, do you think that the island of Samarai will be Large enough to contain the capital of the Eastern Division ?-A. No. The fact of it being art island militates very much against its usefulness.

It has an area of 59 acres, and is very healthy. 1039. Q. Have you considered Fyfe Bay as the site of a possible suitable capital ?-A. Yes. The anchorage there during the south-east season is good, but during the north-west it is bad.

1040. Q. Is it as good .an anchorage as Samarai? -A. Yes, and there is a large area of very good

land at the back of Fyfe's Bay. 1041. Q. Would it cost a very large amount to

open connexion by road between the port and that land ?-A. No. 1042. Q. Consequently Fyfe Bay would tap a large area of good land ?-A. Yes, and it would

cost very iittle to cut a road from the head of

Mullen's. Harbor to Fyfe, Bay. 1043. Q. You have not good land at the back of Samarai ?- A. No. 1044. Q. Do you know any better locality than Fyfe Bay for a future capital site for the Eastern Division ?-A. No. The disadvantage is that it is

so much further away from the northern gold-field, but there is no other suit.able harbor nearer. It is only 42 miles further than Samarai. 1045. Q. Have you anything to place before the .Commission as to your relatiqns with the Adminis­

trator ?--A. No, they have always been satisfac­ torv. I would like to say that there appears to be

an, impression in Australia that the natives get a large quantity of liquor to drink. There are

isolated cases, but it is not a general thing. The

Papuan has not acquired a taste for liquor at this end of the Division, at all events, and, no matter

how low down a European may be, he is always ready and willing to support the Government in preventing the natives ,getting liquor. I have onl y had about six cases of nati,ves getting liquor within ten years, and they were mostly Western boys, who

had been to Thursday Island. In every cas.e the man giving the liquor has been fined heavily-£30.

ISADORE HERSCHTEL

was sworn and exarnirned, as follows,:-1046. The Chairman.---What is your name ?-A. Isadore Herschtel. ro47 . Q. Wh.a,t is your o::cupation?-A. I am

agent for Leonard Rosenthal, pearl merchant, P'aris. ro48. Q. Have you any view~ in regard to _t he pearl industry which you would hke to place belor•:

the Commiss ion ?- A. Yes. 1049. Q. You propose to commenc<: operati.0·1s in the Trobri.ancls ?-A. Yes. The natives there are fishing for oysters for food, and they get some

pearls out of those oysters, and I want to have the right to buy the pearls from the natives,. 1050. Q. Do you propose to use any native la­ bour ?-A. No. If pearl fishing were carried on in

the usu al way it would mean that in a few years the oysters would be exhausted, and the native supply of food would come to an end. My proposals

would not in any way interfere with the native food supply, as I only propose to purchase [he r·:~arls from the natives taken from the oysters which they procure for food. Under the present system the trader advances the native trade of variciu~ kinds ;

he gets him into his debt, a.T).d later on practically forces the native to work for him to repay that debt, and consequently very often they have to neglect their gardens so that they may work off their debt to the pearl tr.a.der.

ro51. Q. Do you wish the Government to give you the sple right to ca.rry on the operations you have described in the Trobriands ?-A. Yes.

rn52. Q. What do you propose to give the Go­ vernment in return for that privilege ?-A. I am prepared to offer £400 a year. 1053. Q. Would there be any indirect benefit to the revenue ?-A. Yes. Revenue would be de­ rived from all the trade which I would have to use, especially tobacco.

1054. Q. Does not the revenue benefit from that s.ource now ?-A. Very little. The present pearl fishers trade in arm shells, New Guinea coins and belts., but very little in tobacco.

1055. Q. What benefit do you think the revenue ,rnuld derive from your trade ?-A. I should want from 3 to 4 tons of tol,acco a year at the very

least. ·

1056. Q. Have you considered the possibility of pearl shelling in any other part of the country ? A. At present I do not know about other parts of British New Guinea.

1057. Q. If your operations in the Trobriands were successful would you then be prepared to em­ bark in other ventures around the coas,t ?-A. Yes, we would get experts to come here and thoroughly test the pearl shells.

1058. Mr. Okeden.-What sort of people are now engaged in the trade ?-A. Greeks, Japanese, and Manilla men. 1059. Q. In what way would you be prepared to pay the money to the Government ?- A. We

,rnuld pay it in any way the Government required, and would pay it in advance.

THE HONORABLE WILLIAM WHITTEN, M.L.C., was s\\·orn and examined, as follows :-1060. The Chairman.-What is your name?-A. William Whitten. ·

1061. Q. How long have you beer. in Papua?­ A. T wenty-one years. 1062. Q. What occupation have you been follow­ ing ?-A. I have a captain's certificate, and origin­ ally ca.me here as a trader. I was engaged with

shipping for a considerable time, but since 1890 I have beer. engaged in storekeeping and plantations. 1063. Q. You are now a non-official member of the Legislative Council ?-A. Yes.

J064. Q. H ave you any matters you would like to place before the Commission ?-A. Yes; in the first place, in connexion with the Administration. 1065. Q. Are you satisfied with the preser.t Go­ \'e rnment methods of the Admini tration ?-A. No.

10 66. Q. Do you think everything possible is be­ ing done to encourage development ?- A. No. 1067. Q. H ave you any particular instances you would like to brir:g be fore the Commission in re­ gard to the present Admini. tration ?-A. No. My

William Whitten, 2 th Sept., 1!)06.

idea i. that the Administration generally is run on very expensive lines. I think that a business man at the head of affairs here could reduce exper:diture a good deal.

106 8. Q. Are you referring to a business man as Administrator ?-A. Either as Administrator or Treasurer. Expensesi in · some of the Divisions are Yery high for the amount of. work done. They are

run by men who have no idea of mor:ey, and I

think a good business man at the head of affairs

could reduce expenses a great deal. 1069. Q. Would not that, to a large extent, fall

under the Department of the Treasurer ?-A. The Administrator in N e,v Guir.e.a has taken the prin­ cipal part in the Administration. 1070. Q. Are you of opinion that the present Ad-

ministrator has not a business grasp of the admin­ istration ?--A. I would r.ot like to say that. A

business man at the head of affairs, either as Go­ vernor or Treasurer, could reduce expemes in

Samarai, and have that money for other purposes. 1071. Q. Then you do not think, at .the present time, the Admir:istration is run on strictly business lines ?-A. I do not think it is.

:r.07 2. Q. Can you give any definite instances

where you think money could be sa.ved ?-A. The Northern Division is the most exper:sive, and I think a lot of money is wasted there. 107 3. Q. In what way ?-A. For one thing, when

a magistrate travels up there he does not seem to be able to move about without less than 40 natives, and ger:erally has about six police. I can travel about there (although I would not expect a magistrate to travel quite as meanly as myself) with three boys.

I should sa,y that ten or fifteen bvys would answer all purposes of comfort. There would be a few

extra natives to carry the constables' 'food. 1074. Q. Is there any othet place where expenses could be reduced without impairing efficier:cy ?-A. I do not pretend to know how Governments should

be run, but it seems to me that we could do with

less officers at the head of aff a.irs. I think that the work of the Administrator and the Judge could be done by or:e officer. 107 5. Q. You think there is n0 necessity for the

two positions ?-A. No j the duties could be carried out by one man, and I think that the positions of

Government Secretary and Treasurer might be filled by or:e man.

0

1076. Q. You are now speaking of Papua exactly as it is j but suppose it develops? A forward policy is now to be gone on with, and everv effort made to bring white men to the country. Under those cir­ cumstances, would you still hold those views ?-A.

I do not know all the work that is dor.e, but I am

judging from outside. I cannot imagine such an in­ flux of people into this country as to add so much to the work. There might be mining developments., but I do not think it would add much to the official

work. Agricultural development would certainl_­ bring a few extra white people here, but I do not

think it would make much more work. It mjght in the L:rnds Department, but that could be met by extra clerks. 1077. Q. Would not extra surveyors be required? -A. Yes. ·

1078. Q. So far as you can see the present staff is somewhat large, and might be reduced without impairing the effi iency of the service ?-A. Yes. A busine s man at the head of affairs would be able

to see pler.ty of places where he could save money. Co t 0f Govetnment here is too high for the size of the country and the result. 1079. Q. Of course, you understand that di -

tances are great, and there is no oncentration of

population ?-A. Thir.gs have improved. It is only

recen"tly we haYe had steam ve sels on the coast, and only a few years ago since we had to depend en-tirely on sailing vessels. 1080. Q. D0 you think it would be a go:-J d thing

for the Governmer..t to undertake the whole of the transport in the K orthern Division ?-A. I have never thought of that. I cannot see the advantage. 108 r. Q. Do you think the present method of

transport is reliable and satis'factory ?-A. There is r..ot a deal 0f difficulty in the transport to where the miners are working. It is difficult to get there, be­ cause the roads are bad andl the distances are

long. 1082. Q. Is there any difficulty in regard to

boys ?-A. Not a great difficulty. In some of the further places the boys do not always deliver their loads. 1083. Q. Would they be more likely to deliver

their loads if they were under the Government ?'--A. When the roads were bad the boys used to loiter or thro\v their loads a ,,rn y, ar.d we had the services of one of the native police to go with them, but that

was all gi ,·en up after a time, as we found that the native police were inclined to loiter as much as the boys. 1084. Q. You are engaged in the carrying busi-ness ?-A. Yes. In the way of recruiting boys there

is a difficulty. We car.. get plenty of labour for

canying in the Western Division. The difficultv is ir: the way of getting boys for mining in that

Division. ro85. 0. Can you suggest any improvements ir: the present methods ?-A. I am in favour o'f the

Government taking all the recruiting over for

miners. I would allow private persons to recruit

their own boys. 1086. Q. But under Go-verr.ment supervision?-A. Yes. 1087. Q. Could the Government make it self-suppo1ting if they took it over ?-r1. I am sure they could.

1088. !/;fr. Herbert. -The present recruiters must make a profit ?-A. They make a living. None of the recruiters are doing well at present. A year or two ago, when boys were coming in readily, they

did very well ir:deed. I have engaged in the busi­ ness myself, and on one or two special trips we did well indeed, but, taking it all round, it is only a

living. 1089. T lte C!iairman.-Is it your opinion that it ,rould be more satisfactory for the Governmer..t to take over the recruiting themselves ?-A. Yes, in re­ spect of, boys for miners, as there would be a better

supply. At present very few of the miners have

the number of boys they require. They require

many more. There is one thing that would induce the native to recruit, .and that is to tax him. That

would make him work. 1090. Q. You thir:k that the time has arrived

\Yhen it would be onl ' a fair thing to make the

natiYes pay a reasonable tax, and so make them pay 'for the protection given them, and it would also induce them to work ?-A. Yes. I ,Y.as here before there was a Government. Nearly all the money that

has beer. spent in this country during the last

eighteen :·ears has been on the protection of natives. 1091. Q. You n0w speak of the natives in the

sphere of Government influence ?-A. Yes. 1092. Q. Have you any suggestior.. to make as to the form the tax should take ?-A. I think money should be paid, and I do not think there hould be

anv diffi ulty in getting it. The amount would pave to be put on by degrees. The natives in all dis­

tri ts would r:ot be able to pav the same tax. In

me place it ,yould be more difficult to pay 2s. 6c1. than 1 os. in other pla"es. At 1ambare there is

41'

William Whitten, 28th Sept., 1906.

'.1othing to prevent each ~ative earning ros. by carry­ mg one_ load for the .mmers, and that would be

earned 1r. a week.

Ordinance "·bich has just been passed is . most

liberal.

1_o93. Q. ~hat would you suggest in the case of natives not bemg able to pay a money tax ?-A. The t~x should be pai? in m0ney. He could bring in

his produce, and 1t could be sold for the GoYern­ ment. Ir. cases where they can work for .a man,

such as Mambare, thev could earn the money .and p~ry the tax, or the Government could collect the money for the ·work. 1094. Q. Have you read the new Land Ordi­

nance ?--A. Yes. I helped tv pass it.

. 1095. 0. In view of the possibilib, of an ir.crease 1n. sett~ ement, and mo~e land being required, do yo:.1 t~11:k 1t would be a wise thing to have a clause pro­ vidmg for the compulsory resumption o'f land ?--A ..

Yes, because, owing to the improvement conditions men will only take up as much 1and as they ca~

cu1tivate, but later they may wish to increase' their are~s, and ther. t~e surrounding natives may, for vanous reasons, wish to block them, and may lav claim to land which they cannot use, but I woul cl

be no party to land being taken from the natives

w hirh they can use. 1096. Q. What are your views in regard to the

possibilities of plan.ting ?-A. I think there are

good prospects. I bought a property last year on

which a cocoa-nut plantation had been commenced sever.al years earlier. I was told I was a fool to

go in for a cocoa-nut plantation in New Guinea,

and that I should go to the Solomons, where there is not such restrictions on the labour, but I con­

sidered that there was as fine country in N cw

Guinea for agriculture as there is any~,,here else. There is rich ground that should grow anything of .a tropical character.

ro97. Q. Then why is it, with this rich ground,

so little has been done h ere? Why is it that men

have not come here ? Has every encouragement been .given ?-A. I think so. One or two have been re­

fuse d land, but capitalists seem to have kept away from New C ·:~:a . I cannot say why.

109B. 0. Have they had every facilit,- for get­ ting land if tfey wanted it ?-.4. All the land taken up has been taken by the same peop1e. There was some delay a few years back, but I have had every

facility. ·s ome years ago I .applied for land for

a cocoa-nut plantation, and I was told it was re­

quired for the natives. It was never used, and

s.ince then it has been granted to another applicant. That was ten or twelve ye.a.rs ago, and if I had got it it would have been b earing by now. 1099. Q. Do vou know any other instance more

recent than, that in regard to the difficulty in getting land ?-A. No; but there have been complaints as to delay in getting deeds. 1100. Q. Is not that disposed to discourage men

from coming here ?-A. I do not think so. I do

not think any men coming here to take up land,

and finding they would h.a:ve to wait such a long

time Lefore they got their deeds, would ue dis,-couraged. .

uor. Q. Would it not be a bad advertisement

for the couritrv ?-A. Certainly. The planting i,1 New Guinea 1;as all been done by residents of the country, by people with small_ capital.

1104. Q. Do you think it poss.ible, under exist­ ing- conditions, where so much land is native land, and the staff of surveyors consists of two, to pre­ Yenl these delays ?-A. The staff of surveyor~ is

small, but that will not hinder people taking up'

L:tnd. It does not seem to do so in the Solomons. uo5. Mr. H~rbert.-But there they can buy land from the chiefs, and you cannot do that here? -A. According to the Land Ordinance now, you

apply for a certain. area of land, and if the Resi­ dent I\Iagistrate is certain that the land is not re­ quired by natives it is. given at once. uo6. Q. Is there not a very small choice of land

at the present time, until surveys are carried out without making arrangements with the natives?-~ A. There is a large area unoccupied by the natives. 1107. Q. Is it Crown land ?-A. No; but in

regard 1o anv land unoccupied by natives, there ,rnuld not be any difficulty in the applicant taking the land. IIo8. Q. Tlte Clwirman.-In the event of a

settle~ coming here and taking up a piece of un­ occupied land, under the new Land Ordinance, six :11on.ths are. allowed f~r natives to lodge objections if they desire, so dunng that time the man is un­

certain whether he can get the land er not. Now

is. it reasonable to think that when a man can get so much good land at a low price in Australia

without those restrictions, you will induce any men to come here ?-A. I do not think any one would come to New Guinea with a view to takin<.r up land for agriculture, unles.s he thought that the native

labour would b2 an advantage. I 109. Q. Do you think, even with tbe advan­

tage~ offered ~n yo~1r new Land Ordinance, you are offering sufficient mducement for people to come here?-A. Ko; and I believe that the clause in the La6d Ordinance prohibiting the granting of free­

hold is for the time b eing against the best interests of the Territory, for the reason that it will be a

gr-eat <:hjf'ctio11 , in the minds of many who would otherwise bave taken u1; land, and helped in that agricultural development of the country which would be sa great a factor in the progres.s and permanencv

of rrosperity. ,

1 I Io. Q. Then you are not a believer in having merely a leasehold tenure ?-A. No; not for the present. A freehold tenure would attract people here.

II rr. Q. E\'en although the leasehold tenure is for 99 years ?-A. Yes. There is a sentiment

against it. The re- valuation of the land also

operates. with many. 1112. Q. Is there anv other matter you would

like to bring befo·:e the Commission ?-A .. The prin­ cipal industries we haYe are miniing and agricul­ ture. You cannot put gold into the countrv when it is not there, but if you have good land there is

no reason whv it should not be made use of. J113. Q. Then :mu think a vigorous policy of agriculture shoulrl be insi~ted upon ?-A. Yes. 11 r 4. (J . Do yon think there arc anv possibili­

ties for the timbers of Papua for exp~rt ?-A. I

think there are. T here Lire timbers, growinir in

this country which I think would be found of gre:,t s~rvi:::c~ on the Queei,sland railways. ru5. Q. Do lhcy grow in 1;rge quantities?J ,

A . Yes. 1J r6. Q. Would it be a goocl thing to have an

II02. Q. As one of the re~idents _wl:c' have __ rrore in for planting, do you consider this is a suitable

countrv to which men might come and invest money in pla~t.a.tions, with the hope of getting a return? -A. I am quite sure of that.

1103. Q. And men coming "·ou]d he put on the land without any vexatious delay ?-A. I am sur that every effort of the Government would be maclc to assis,t ·any applicant for land, and the Land

expert to cxami.ne and rcrort upon them ?-A. I tliinl· it mmld l:0 8. Yery gcnd idea, not only in

·eg~ucl to timber, lJut a lso if the Government could obtain the services of an expert in agric'ulture to

William Whitten, 2 th ept., 1906.

inspect the various plantations and advise the

people as to the most suitable plants and their

treatment. 1r17. Q. Do you think it would be a good thing t o ha Ye a GoYernment nursen-. in charge of such a man, " ·ho would be alwa.ys here to give practical

help ?--A. Yes. 1I18. Q. Do you think it would help the min­

ir,g industry, if a mineralogist were sent here to re­ port oni the mineral-bearing areas of Papua?­ /L To, I would rather be in favour a.f sending a

gcod prospector to these districts. Colours of gold are said to have been found on the Aird River. It

i;-; a most difficult place to get at, and the Govern­

ment onl v could do it. l l 19. 'o. Would you be i.n favour of offering

n·ry liberal inducement to prospectors to go to such country as that, and offer a reward if they dis­

cover a payable field ?-A. Ko. They might take up too much of the country, and leave nothing for any one else. I think the Government should assist prospectors. There are men who would be willing to go with slight assistance.

1 I 20. Q. Have you anything to say from the

stand-point of a commercial man ?-A. I would like to see telegraphic communication between here and Queensland. It ,rnuld not pay for a time,

but it \\'ould mean a good deal to tbe people here. u2r. Q. Would you suggest direct communica­ tion, or via Port I\loresbv ?-A. Whichever was found to be the cheaper and easier way, although we contend that Samarai is the more important

place of the two, and we should be considered

first; but that would not matter much. u22. Q. In the event of much development tak­ ing place, do you think the Island of Samarai would be large enough for the site of the Capital of this end of the Territory ?-A. I do not think it would be necessary to consider that matter for some years

to come. There is a good deal of roOiffi for build­

ings jn Samarai yet. You can get rid of the ma­

larial mosquito here, and you cannot do that on the mainland. 1I23. Q. I understand that the anchorage is not good here ?-A. It is very good indeed. You can

make this port day or night. The harbor is rather small if there was much more work going on. 1 T 14. Q. What is your opinion of Fyfe Bay as

the site for a new capital ?-A. It is a bad place

for sailing vessels to get into in certain winds,

owing ta the reef. A little further west there is an

excellent harbor-?-dullins Harbor-but it is too far away. Samanii is very central for its purpose, and most conveniently situated for the trade routes.

JOHN ALEXANDER CARPENTE~

was swDrn and examined, as follows, :-u25. T!te Clzairman.-Q. What is your name? -A. John Alexander Carpenter. II 26. Q. What position do you occupy here?­

A. I am manager for Burns, Pbilp, and Co. 1127. Q. How long have YOU been in the coun­ try ?-A. Just about four years. n28. Q. Have vou anv matters that you wish

L place before 'the Commission ?-A. Yes, t.he c1uestion of native labour. Th re appears to be a great difficulty in getting labour for mining, but for agricultural "·ork the labour is ample at the prP

~ent time. With a111y de\'elopmcnt I think there

will be a s,hortage, and I con id r that if the natives ,rer taxed in , ome way, they would ba,·e to work. a.nd that wou lcl ·he a goorl thing. 1119. (). Do ~ou ronsider that the nati,·es shc,uld be made to pay for the prot ction they r reiYe? -

A .. Yes.

u30. Q. And it would have the effect of pro­

viding ample labour should plantations be starteJ? ·--A. Yes, there is nothing at the present time to

make the native work. They haYe uffici ent food. If they were called upon to pay a tax, they ,rnuld

have to work to earn mmey to pay that tax. With­ out nati,·e labour in this place nothing can be done with the land. 1131. Q. Provided the settlers could be guaran­ teed native labour, can you see any reason why de­ Yelopment shoulJ not go ahead ?-A. Xo, I think that the country must go ahead. The present Land

Ordinance is a. liberal measure, and will be a

success, as there are no long dela.ys. 1J32. (!,. There have been delays in the past?

-.1. Yes. u33. Q. Wbo is to blame for them ?-A. I sup­ pose the Lands Department. Clients of ours have often come to me and told me that they applied for land hro years ago, and had not heard since about it.

1134. Q. So that different methods \\·ill have to be adopted before settlers can be induced to come tn Papua ?-A. Yes. They should be able to learn "·ithin a few months whether they can get the land or not.

1135. Q. Is that not rather a long time to wait?

-A. It may be. It would of course be better if

they knew in a few ,reeks. With the new Or­

dinance I cannot see "·hv settlement should not be proceeded with. There- can Le no doubt about

cocoa-nut and rubber plantations going ahead. I was at Herbertshohe some years ago, and saw the land there, and I think the land is better here.

1 I 36. Q. Is the German Government g1v111g

every encouragement to settlers there ?-A. Yes. 1137 . Q. Is there any comparison at the present time between German Kew Guinea and Papua?­ A .. From an agricultural point of view there is

none. The ,vhole of the plantations here would be lost in a corner of one plantation there. 1138. Q. Then I take it the Administration

there has been much more pro2"ressive than here?­ /l . They seem to have studied the settler more

there than here. I visited a plantation there, and

saw a road being made up to it, and found that

every time a man takes up a block of land the Go­ vernment makes a road to it by prison labour, and they are roads t.hat vehicles could be driven over. I have not been on the maicland there, so cannot

compare it ,vith the conditions that prevail here. Every encouragement is given to white settlers. u39. Q. Can you say the same in regard to

Papua up to the present ?-A. No. I think tbere

were certain restrictions in regard to lalxrnr which put men off coming here, but they have been done awar with in the new Ordinance. 1140. Q. I suppose you con sider that even with tbis new land law verv little can be done unless

the officers ,rho haYe the carrying out of it are

themselves enthusiastic in regard to the white de­ vElopment of Papua ?-A. Yes, I think so. I

think the main thing ,rnuld be the getting of the

bnd. There should be no time lo t in the officer

of the c1i.5trict going out to inspect the land applied for, and letting the man know whether he can get it or not. The Government should be in a posi­

tion to offer good land to a settler whene\'er he

rc,me fonrarcl for it. It "·ould be uicida 1 for the

Government. to sa,· they can have the land if the natives wi 11 sell it. The 1 and mu t be in th po -

S""'.. ion of the Go,·ernment befor th . eitlers com

a long, and the offir r. mu, t be able to tell them

,, hr1e it 1s, an(l n for the .-C'ttlers lo go around

and search for a suit~hlr hlork, aft r ,rhich thP

officer ha., to in , pect it and finc.1 out "lwthc>r th

n::itiYe owner will ll it or not.

43

t 14 r. Q. Do you think there is likely to be a

great deal of trouble owing to the fact that natives are claiming land which. they think is likely to be applied for ?-A. Yes, there ha Ye been cases of that already.

1142. Q. Do, y:ou think it would be a good thing to declare the whole of the lar.ids of Papua "Crown Lands," always conserving the interests of the nati~es i? the land they legitimately own ?_:_-A. Yes,

I thmk 1t would be a far better idea than the pre­

sent one.

I 143. Q. And. it would not be repudiation so far

as the natives are concerned ?--A. Xo. Ko one

here wishe:s to trespass on the rights of the natiYes. There should be more concentration in rerrard to these native villages. At present they cover ba large area of land unnecessarily.

rr44. Mr. H ierbert.-Do you know that to-day tl?ere are only 700,000 acres of good, bad, and in­ different land which can be said to be Crown bnd in Papua ?-A. I do f'Ot know the ac~eage.

1145. Q. You koow it is small ?-A. It 1s

generally understocid to be small. I 146. Q. Do you know if the Government of

German New Guinea confirms the natives there in their ownership of land ?-A. That I cannot say. From what I coi1ld hear there the land is so,ld at about 2s. a hectare. When a man takes a block

he must immediately set to work to improve it, and the Government reserves the right to take back the ~nimproved portiOIIJl at ·the original price paid for 1t.

1147. O. Is the title freehold or leasehold?-11. Freehold.

r_r'48. Q. Have they any ' system of recruiting native lahour?-A. No, they are all private re­

cruiters. They1 merely inspect the boys when thev come in, the same as the Government dces here. -II49· The Chrairman.-Do you think it would be a good thing for the Government to take over

the trarn:;port in the Northern Division ?-A. I can see no objection to it. Probablv it woold be better. There are a large number of local natives in that district who could earn,-.

rr50. Q. Do you think the transport of goods

would be more reliable ?-A. Yes. II 51. Q. Are you in favour of telegraphic com­ munication being established with Australia ?-A. It would be an advantage to the place, but . would not go anywhere near ta paying expenses.

II 5 2. Q. Do you think that the cast of the

present Administration could be reduced with­ out jmpairing efficiency ?-A. It is hard to

say. I have not seen Port .\lores by, but

ody this end. As regards this end, I think

there -are just about enough officers. They have enough work to do. I think the Service would be improved if better salaries were paid. At Wood­ lark the Assjstant Resident Iagistrate gets a

smaller salary than a working miner.

CHARLES OWEN TURNER

was sworn and examined, as follows :-1153. The Chairman.- Wbat is your name?-A. Charles Owen Turner. 1154. Q. What position do you occupy ?-A. Assistant Resident .\f agis.trate m the Eastern

Division. I 15 5. Q. How long have you been in the service

of the Government ?-A. I entered the Sen·ice the

C. 0. Turner,

28th Sept., 1906.

latter end of October, 1900, as assistant to Mr. Sur­ yeyor Rutherford. I received that appointment in B;isbane. I remained in the Lands Department until .\larch 1902. I was then appointed Assistant

Resident r.I~gistrate in the Eastern Division, 17th .\Iarch, 1902. That position I have occupied up to the present time. I was Acting Resident Magistrate from the 30th January, 1906, until Mr. Campbell's

return in September, 1906. u56. Q. I understand you haYe some matters to place before the Commission ?-A. The chief matter I wish to place before the Commission is the

fa.ct of my having been passed over and officers junior to myself appointed to higher positions. I mean that officers who had been appointed after myself were appointed to higher positions than mine. One instance js, where Mr. Manning, who ,ms appointed to the service on the 28th February,

1901, and who w.a:s only appointed Resident Magis­ trate for the Possession on the 14th November, 1903, and on the 2nd June, 1905, he was appointed Resident Magistrate in charge of the North-Eastern

Division. Another case is that of Mr. Griffin.

That officer received his first appointment in the service on the 29th July, 1904, when he was .ap­ pointed Assistant Resident Magistrate in the Nor­ thern Division. On the 12th April, 1906, he was

appointed Resident Magistrate for the Gulf Divi­ sion. Both these officers joined the Service after I did, in one case .almos,t three and a half years after, in the other only a few months after. Mr. Man­ ning was, appointed to the position of Assistant

Private Secretary on the 28th February, 1901. I wa,s appointed Assis tant Resident 1v1agistrate and Warden in the Eastern Division on the 17th March, 1902.

1 I 57. Q. Did you make any protest at the time? -A. I did not make an official protest. I went to the Governor and said that I had been passed over, and he said he was holding me over for another

position. That was, I presume, the Acting Resi­ dent l\Iagistracy of this Division. It is not the fact of making a protest or not. I was not offered the position, afrhough I had the longer service.

u58. Q. Have the authorities ever had fault to fi\1d with you ?- --A. On tl1e contrary, I ha.ve always been highly recommended, thanKed, and com­ mended. I have here a letter from Mr. Musgrave,

the Government Secretary, dated 9th September, 1903, in reply to a letter in which I asked for in­ formation concerning the advisability of getting a transfer to Africa, in which he says : '' I consider you are acquitting your,self as a reliable and zealous officer." I have also a letter from Sir George Le

Hunte, dated 17th March, 1902, in which he states: " I am glad to get a gentleman who I can depend on into the Magistracy, which is our executive branch.'' That was written when I was appointed.

1159. Q. In spite of the Governor's statement to you that he was holding you over for another posi­ tion, you .are still an As•sistant Resident Magistrate? -A. Yes, and two officers who were junior to me

have been appointed Resident Magistrates and re-ceive £7 5 a year more than I do. '

n6o. llfr. H erbert.-In point of age, what is th difference ?- A. I am 33. l\Ir. l\Ianning's

age I take to be about 23 or 24, and Mr. Griffin

I should take to be about 34 or 35.

r 161. T!te C l!airman.-Did you make an,· protest against .\Ir. Griffin 's appointment not having been o ffert>

and explained the matter to him, and he said I was still to ·keep the position of Assistant Resident

0. 0. Turner.

2'th ,cept., 1906.

44

i\fagistrate. He said the head of the channel had been closed, .and I would ham to keep my present position. 1 understand that in referring to the

head of the channel he meant :\Ir. i\lusgrave, and there was no other chance. 1162. Mr. Okcden.--Did the fact of your bein 5 married enter into the calculations at all ?~-A. J cannot say. Sir G. Le Hunte knew I was married,

and he told me that be had appointed me to this

place because 1 was a married man. II63. Mr. Herbert.-Would it have entailed any extra expense to the Government, you occupying this position and being a married man ?-A. I do not .

think so. 1164. Tlte Cltairman.-You said you had been .assistant to Survevor Rutherford ?-A. Yes, and I am capable of doing a certain amount of survey

work. II65. Q. Have either 1fr. Manning or Mr.

Griffin any similar experience ?-A. I co not think so. Mr. Griffin has been an .army officer. I do

·all the ·land purchas.ing in this Division. Mr. Camp­ bell leaves it to me. II66. Q. What other matters do you wish to

place before us ?--A. That is the chief one. An­

other is in regard to the occupatioo of the Residency. The usual course is that when a.n officer has been appointed Acting Resident Magistrate he occupies the Residency of the Division to which he has been

appointed. In my letter of ins,tructions from Cap­ tain Barton, the Administrator, to take over this Division when Mr. Campbell went on leave, it is stated : " You will not occupy the Government

Residency .a.t Samarai, pendiing further instruc­ tions." I wrote to Captain Barton personally, and asked hi.m the reason. I had heard it stated that

the reason was that a si.ster-in-law of mine was to be married, and her intended had stated they were going to have a high time at the Residency when thev were married. In mv letter to Captain Barton

I s.a.id that was a 1ie .. Captain Barton, when be

replied to me, said that that was not the reason.

As it is the usu.al thing for Acting Resident 1Iagi.s­ trates to .occupy the Residency, I had gone to some expense in anticipation. When Captain Barton came here I asked him about it, and he would give me no reason. The fact of my not having occupied

it has, belittled me both in the e-res of the settlers .anct the natives. The house was lock'ecl u.p the

whole of the time Mr. Campbell was away. n67. The Witness.-The third matter is, I wr1s told to take charge of this Divisicin when Ur. Camp­ bell went on leave. He left on the 31st Januar?,

1906, and the Colonial Office regulation is that ,

1 hilst an officer on leave is drawing full pay, the officer relievim: him shall not receiYe anv further increase in sal;ry, although I was given to under­

stand that I was to receive 7,100 per annum -while I was relieving Mr. Campbelt. A regulation states that lea,·e granted to officers in the Central Division will commence from the date of their departure from

Port Ioresby. Le:1.ve granted fo officei;s of the Eastern and other Divisions, will dale from the date of their departure from Samarai. Wnen I wrote to ~Ir. 1usgrave stating That I had received no extra salary, I received a letter saying that Mr. Campbell

had received full · alary up to the 4th May, whereas he should have received full salary only up to 30th April. When I was awav on lPave I was a,Ya\'

ni.ne or ten da,·s oYer rnv.time, and received 0111;-half pay

were no quarters for me to occupy, and when J

\Yent to the Acting Administrator, Sir F. Winter, in )fay and asked him about quarter , and told him there were no quarters here, he said he would make me a temporary allowance of £25. Several times

I have complained that this £25 is not enough to pay rent, and that the lowest I have paid is £36.

n69. The Cltairman.-Then, according to your statement, you practically lose £1 r per year ?-A. Yes. 1170. illr. Herbert.-What is your sal::try?-A.

£225, after six years' service. 1171. !lfr. Okeden.-And )Ir. )fanning and Mr. Griffin get £300 each ?-A. Yes. It would be

absolute] y impossible for me to live up to my posi-tion if I had no other means.

1172. Tlte Cltairman.-Would £25 pay for quarters ?-A. For six months I was paying £52 a year for quarters, and received only £25. I

ha-re not paid less than £36, and in my letter of

appointment I was promi•sed quarters. The letter is dated 17th March, 1902, and it distinctly states that the ·sa.lary of the office is £zoo per annum and quarters are allowed. rt is signed by the Govern-ment Secretary.

II7 3. Mr. Okeden.-Was the Administrator here in Samarai when he told you you could not occupy the Residency ?-A. I saw him on the Merrie Eng­ land at the time, and just:.. before I left the boat,

he called me into his cabin and gave the letter to

me. I had no time to react it thoroughly before I

left. 1174. Q. Did you write to the head of your De­ partment" on the matter ?-A. I wrote straight to the Governor, because I got the letter from the Go­ vernor, and the last words 11.e said to me when I

left the Merrie England were: " Do not be afraid to write to me if there is anything to worry you.''

I did write, when he said that the reason I had

heard was not the right one. II75· Mr. Herbert.-Have you ever brought the matter of your rent before fhe Administrator ?-A. Yes, on several occasions.

1176. Q. With what result?-A. Without any result. The only thing I was led to understand was that I could not expect quarters because I was a

married man. Then I asked why was I not paid

.£36, the same amount that is paid to other officers for quarters. Dr. Craigen, as far as I know, is

the only officer who received an allowance for rent, and he received £36 at Port foresby. In reply

to the insinuation of the Administrator that I was a married man, I may say that Sir G. Le Hunte,

who appointed me, knew I was a married man.

THE HONORABLE ALEXA DER MALCOLM CAMPBETJL, M.L.C.,

was further examined, .as, follo,Ys :-II 77. The Clwirnzan.-)1r. Turner is an officer under you ?-A. Yes. 1 q8. Q. Have you found him to be a capable

and effi cient officer ?- A. Yes, :i.t all times.

u79. Q. And loyal ?-A. Yes. n8o. Q. Are you perfectly -A. Yes. ati fied with him?

1 18 r. Q. Do you con . itler th.:i.t :ITr. Turner would

fit to undertake the duties of a Re ident fagis­ trate-?-A. Yes, certainly.

45 R,ev. C. W. Abe1, '29th Sept., l!ld6.

NINTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 29rn SEPTK\IBER, 1906.

(Trm COMMISSION M:ET AT THE STATION OF THE LONDON MISSIONARY SocI1ETY, KwATO.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. ~IACKAY, C.B., M. L. C. (Chairman) ; ·

W. E~. P~rry-Okeden, Esq., J.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE REV. CHARLES WILLIAM ABEL was sworn and examined, as follows,:-u82. Tlze Chairman. - 'What is your name? -A. Charles William Abel. " '

u8_3 .. Q. Wh~t position do you occupy here? --­ A. M1ss10.:1ary of the London Miss:'Ona.ry Society. I 184. Q. How long have vou been in this coun­

try ?-'--A. Nearly sixteen year's. II~S· Q. J?o you think it would be practicable and m the interests of the natives if some form

of taxation were imposed upon those tribes within the sphere of the Government's influence ?-A. Yes. I have always held the opinion that taxation, should be applied to the natives under the influence of the

Governr:1ent, such as those about Port Moresby and Samara1. You would have to begin very cautiously, and extend it as the influence of the Governme{1t

extended. It would be almost impossilble to apply the same rule to a place like Tufi, where the Go­ vernment has not been settled· so long as it has here. II 86. Q. Would the taxation have a beneficial effect upon the natives by making them more in­

dustrious ?-A... That would depend upon the form the taxation took. I should say that it should ta.ke the form of developing nati1ve lands and cocoanut plantations. The natives understand the planting

of cocoanuts to some extent. They do not ander­ stand it scientificalJy, but they couTa be taught. ~ f the Government compelled the natives to pay a

tax, by making them form cocoa.nut plantati()II1s of a certain area, the natives would in a few years see the advantage derived from the copra' produced to the Government, and would be induced to make

plantations of their mvn. The nrime idea of taxing the natives. would be, not to increase the revenue, but to induce the natives to be industrious j but as time went on it would, of course, increase the reve­

nue. u87. Mr. Herbert.-That ·wo uld hardly be taxa­ tian, would it ?-A. N'o; but it would tend to teach the natives industry.

u88. Q. Is yo{ir scheme to form Government

plantations, the natives to work in them without pavrnent ?-A. Yes. ; r 8 9. Q. Then your form of taxation would be

a period of compulsory labour to the Government each vear?-A. Exactlv. 1190. Q. Preferably on plantat:

themselves to their own benefit, and the benefit of the country generally. 1191. The Chairman.- --Have yon read the new Land Ordinance ?-.4 .. No j but I ·have heard of it.

1192. Q. With the object of inducing a desirable class of settlers to oome to New Guinea, I take it

that you are of opinion that no delay should occur in dealing with applications for land ?- A. Neces­ sarily there must be some d elay in a country like

this. If a man selected a piece of land, it take s

:some time before it could be found out whether the natives would part with it.

1193. Q. Do you think that difficulty could be

got u , er by declaring the whole of the lands of

.Paptw. · " Crown lands, " always reserving for the nati ,·es the land which they at present legitimatelv o_-2c upy, or e_ven give them doubl_e the area they legi­

timately claim at the prese nt time? - A. That is

quite a new idea to me. I would Uke to think it

O\'er. It seems to me a very fair arrangement. 1_194. Q. Is it a fact that, particularly of late,

nat~ves have been in the habit of claiming land

winch for many years they have not used, or laid any claim to, in times gone by ?-A. I do not know of anv definite cases of that kind. r J 9'5. Q. Do you think there is a. possibility of

that sort of thing taking place under existing condi­ t:ons ?- A. Yes, I do.

1196. Q. Do you think that might prove a areat barrier to legitimate white settlement ?- A. Yes~ un­ ~lo;..1btedly. I think it would be a very wise thing 1f. the Government w_ere to do what they: could to

br~ng the scattered villages together whi1ch may be tlnnly _popul~t~d. . A large valley may be populated by natives hvmg m groups of five or six. Under

those circumstances, jt is very difficult to admini'ster law to them, and it would be very much better if

tl:ey wer~ broug_ht together and formed into large villages m restnctecl areas, which should be sur­ Yeyed a.:i1~ marked off from the remaini1ng; unoccupied la~d, wh1~h should be Crown land. I have in my

mmd a. piece of land to which attention wa.s drawn by Mr. Atl~e Hunt. It is the valley of Buhutu,

ab?ut 30 miles ~ong by about 9 miles bmad. I ap­ phe_d to the directors of the London Missionary S?c1~ty for European missionaries to take up that d1stnct. In that case I think the Government would find it difficult to declare that land Crown land be­ cc1.~se it is all occup;ed by this very scattered p

1

opu­

lat10n .. They w~ll not cultivate the one garden two years m success1_on. Th~y are really nomads j but 1t would b~ possible to brmg them together and give them su~c1ent land for their purposes1 and declare

the remainder Crown land. I am referring, of

course, to the people in the vallev. 1197. lib. Herbert.-How mti'ch of that vallev would it take to support the whole of the inhabf-13.nts of that valley ?-A. Approximately, one-fifth

,~oulo be ample. It would be impossible to shift a village from the coast, as the villagers would not move from the place where their ancestors were born, but there is not the same feeling amongst

these inl.anders. They are here to-day and further up the valley to-morrow. 1198: Q. Ta!<:ing that valley as an instance,

would 1t be fau and desirable for the Government to declare that valley Crown land, and afterwards ~o reserve a cert~in portion of it for the natives,

mstea~ of followmg the yresen.t course, wh:ch is to recogmse all land as native land except so much as hereafter. shall be declared to be Crown land ? - ­ A .. Certamly

1199. The Clzairman.-Do you think t hat the present systei:n of recruiting is sati'sfa ctory 2 s 1e­ gards the natives ?-A. N o, I do not. 1.200. Q. Do you think it would be bette r for the native~, and more _in the interests of the best cl" ss

of white settle rs, 1f the Government were to t ake over the wh?le of the recruiting ?- A. I have a hrnn held that vrew. ·

1201. Q. I understand you have taken a con-

siderable interest in the timber q t· ? A \ ' ues 1011 . - r.1. es, as applie d to this di trict. 1202. Q. Have you found the local timber satis­ facto ry ?- A. Yes, as reg,ards qualitv. I think it

compares very favorably with the tii'.nber imported. __ 12~3. Q. Do you thi~k a s,uffici ent quantit v o f

tl11s t1mber rould be obtarned to commence an export trade ?- A. Not from this part.

Rav. CJ. \ • Abaf,

29th ept., 1906.

1204. Q. Ha,·e you heard that there are large quantities in other parts of Papua ?- A . Mr. 1\[t, \\· -on, ,rho appears to b2.Ye been ac<]_uainted ·.rith the timber indu try befor coming here; asked me if I

,rn'Jld buy some logs from him, which he_ s_aid ,1:n e got from the Gulf. He said large quantities r-c,uld be got there. }lr. English also said he had a lot

of ced3.r from the Kemp Welch RiYer, as well as soft woo d. I am surprised at the quantity of

timber here. 1'.:!05. Q. Do you think it ,rnuld 'be a good t~ing

to send a timber expert here to go th<;>roughl): rnto the question of the quality and quantity of tunber in Papua?-A. Yes; that is the only way to get

relialile information on the subject. 1206. Q. Is there any other matter you would

like to put before the Commission ?-:4. It . would be a very advisable thing if, in connex10n with the Government, some officer were appointed to come here and thoroughly investigate this country from

an agricultural stand-point. If a settler comes. here he must spend a lot of time in finding out suitable land for his purposes. If a map were drawn out

by an expert, showing the available lands and what they ,rere suitable for- sugar, cocoanuts, rubber, or other products-I think it ,rnuld faciEtate settle­ ment ,:erv much.

1207. ·Q. Do you consider that it would be a wise thing for the Government to start a State nursery, to be in charge of a man of that type, ,rho would

not only give that information, but also, by prac­ tical illustrat:on, show settlers the best methods f?r producing those crops, and also supply th~m rn manv cases with the plants to make a sta!rt with?­ A. i do indeed.

1208. Mr. Okeden.--You suggested that a map should be prepared showing the available !a.n.ds. Does not that raise the question of the acqms1U::m of the land before they could point out what la~1d

was available ?-A. I pointed out to Mr. Deakin, years ago, that they should declare all unoccu~ied lands Crown lands. As vears went on, the natives became aware that land ·was marketable, and that thev could claim lands which were really Crown ] anc-ls.

TENTH DAY.

TUE DAY, 2ND OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., I.LC. (Chairman); W E. Parrv-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., 1[r. Justice .. C. E. Herbert,

)Ir. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

WILLIAM JOHN DURIETZ was sworn ancl examined, as follows:-r 209. Tile Clwirman.-What is your name ?-A. William T ohn Duri tz

r2ro. Q. What is your cccupation ?- A. Digger, on the Gira rrold-fi ld. 12rr. Q. How long haYe you been n the field? A. bout three years.

1 2 1 2. Q. Ts th re anything you woukJ ]jk to

plare beforf' the ommission ?- A. Yes, in regard to the state of the roads.

a

r 213. Q. In p aking are you giving u the view

of a nutnGer of other digg rs ?-A. That is a cer·

taint\' . 12·1.4. Q. Do you find that the pre ent state of

the roads is a hard hip ?- A. Y s. The road to the

field has in three years been repaired temporarily twice. The first time it was rep aired ,ms when

Bishop Stone-Wig~ visited the fi eld. The next

time was ,rhen Senator Smith visited the field. 1215. Q. Do you wish the Commission to under­ stand that, in your opinion, the road was repaired simply because first a Bishop and then a Senator ,ms going up the road ?- A. Decidedly.

1216. Q. What is the present condition of the

road ?- A. It is worse than ever. The logs over the creeks are rotten. I am speaking of the roaJ from Tamata to Gira. A length of J! miles to the

police station is kept in splendid condition. The length of 15 miles from the police station to Gira is bad. 1217. Q. Are there any great engineering diffi­ culties to be met on that piece of road ?- A. No,

simply steep creeks. You could fall a log across

any of them and put a hand ,rire across. There

is a wire across one creek between the police station and Tamata. 12r8. Q. What would you sugges.t the Govern­ ment should do ?-A. Kew logs should be put across

the creeks and lengths of wire stretched over to

enable men to walk over. A man with boots on

cannot walk across those Jogs like a boy with his bare feet. 1219. Q. Is the present condition of the road

at times dangerous ?-A. Without doubt. You

throw away several chances of your life eYery time you go across. 1220. Q. Do mu think it would be to the ad­

vantage of the diggers if the Government were to undertake the whole of the transport ?-A. If it

would not interfere with private enterprise. r221. Q. Do you think it would be better in the

diggers' own interests ?- A. Yes, certainly it would. That is my individual opinion. 122 2. Q. Do you think that in the int•erests of

the diggers it would be a good thing for the Go­

vernment to undertake the whole of the recruiting for the gold-fields ?-A .. If \they undertook the whole thing, and carried it out it would, in my

opinion, be more satisfactory for the digger. 1223. Q. As a practical man, can you suggest

any amendment of the present law which would be desirable ?-A. I cannot. I am fairly satisfied

with the Qqeensland mining law, which exists here. 1224. Q. Supposing the Government were to send over a first class geologist, "·hose duty it would be to explore the country and map out the various

parts that contain minerals, showing where the in­ dications point to a certain mineral being found ? - -A. It would be a very good thing because it

would tend to encourage capitalists to come here and deYelop the country properly. r 2 2 5. Q. Do pro pector get any reward at the

present time ?- A. Yes. I ,rnu]d mak no further

sugg stion that ,my. r 226. Q. Then, summing up, you on ider that,

o far as the mining laws of the country are on­

cerned the min r is treated fairly at the pre nt

time ?- A. Yes. I do.

1227. Q. I anr of th rountry about the Gira

suitable for grazing purpo ?- A. It i all scrub

country. It would be plendid grazing ountry if

th scrnb were cleared. 12 28. Q. Is th re any (JUantitr of mark table

hardwood timber in that part of the countr · ?-A. Yes, ther i fairly good cru tim r. It is about

41

lhe same as the Queensland scrub timber, with an odd cedar tree. 1229. Mr. Oked'cn.-What security have you in regard to the gold being brought down ?-A. We bring it down to the steamers ourselves.

1230. Q. Is it brought down under ,escort?-A. There is no risk there. A good bov would take the gold down himself quite safeh·. -1231. Q. And is that done sometimes ?-A. Yes. There is a loss sometimes. You will bear of that

at Buna Bay. 1232. Mr. H erbert.-Is it all alluvial mining in the Korthern Distiict ?-A. Yes. 1233. Q. And, therefore, there · are no mining

leases applied for and issued ?-A. They are all claims. There are no leases on the Gira. · 1234. Q. And, therefore, the question of the

native ownership of the lands on which the mines are worked has not yet been raised ?-A. No. r235. Q. Have any mining leases been issued

in New Guinea yet ?-A. Yes, at Woodlark, but none on the mainland. 1236. The· Chairman.--Do you believe that, at the present time, electoral representation should be given in connexion with the Legislative Council? -

A. I certainly do.

r 237. Q. Are you satiisfied \with the nominee

system ?- A. No. 1238., Q. Do you think tihe time has ,arrived

when trial by jury should be instituted -11. Yes. 1239. Q. Have you any fault to find with the

present administration of affairs ?-A.. I have no complaint to make against any individual, but I do not agree with the administration on the whole. 1240. Q. Why ?-A. Say the natives are troub­

ling you. Then the Magistrate comes out with

some police, and he just simply chases the boys, trying to catch prisoners. In the meantime, the

bovs are robbing camps. 124 1. Q. What would you suggest as an improve­ ment ?-A. There is only one way of doing it, and that is to chase them out of the district-disperse them.

1242. Q. Is not that what you say the :Magis­

trate is doing ?-A. No; he is only trying to catch prisoners. 1243. Mr. H erbert.-What do you mean by dis­ persiw{ them ?-A. Well, I mean they should be fired at, or something like that.

1244, ll1r. Okeden.-You sa;y the :natives are troubling you, and when you complain the police come and chase them. What is the trouble ?-A. When I sent for'tne police, they were out next day.

They werie on the road to Aikora. 1245. Q. But what w':s the off enc~ that the boys committed ?-A. _They tned to brea.k mto the houses. They speared a dog in two places, and chased my

native bovs. 1246. Q_. And you think the offi?er of police

should have done more than he did ?-A. Yes.

That afternoon they speared a carrier and killed him. I sent for the police before the boy was

speared. They came out next day, just as we were burying the boy. · -

12 ,1-7. Mr. Herbert.- You say that. you _were not s:ltisfied with what the officer of police did. Who was the officer ?-A. Mr. Bell, at Tamata. 1248. Tlze· Chairman.- When you sent word to the police officer, was there any delay ?-A. o.

He came to m,· place, and told me he would try

and catch the boy. He bad strict orders not to fire on them. 1 249 . Q. How long ago was that?- A. Ahout

nine or ten weeks ago. I am not blar~nng )Jr. B.ell 011 this occasion. It is the whole business - the in -structions that they get.

W. j, bul'iatil, 2nd Oct., 1906.

1250. Mr. fl erberl.-Are not these instructions that they are not to fire upon the natives un]ess the natives fire upon them first?-A. Yes.

JOHN CLUNN, JUNR.,

was sworn and examined, as follows:-1251. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. John Clunn, junr. 1252. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. Planter and property owner.

1253. Q. How long have you been in this coun­ try ?-A. About 11 or 12 years. -1254. Q. How long hive you been engaged in planting ?-A. Three and a-half years.

1255. Q. Have you any grievances to put for- . ward ?-A. The Legislative Council has, within the last week or so, wiped out all grievances I had or knew of.

1256. Q. Have you any suggestions to make in regard to the future development of Papua ?-A. I have had experience both in T orthern Queens­ land and ~ew Guinea of 32 years, and I think the Administration has been backward in opening up the country, although you must recollect that the Administrator has been hampered during the last three years by the Federal Government.

1257. Q. What would you suggest to alter the present unsatisfactory state of affairs ?-A. I sug­ gest that the country be opened up by tracks, or

where practicable roads. In fact, I suggest a

vigorous roads policy. 1258. Q. I take it you mean to open up roads

not only to gold-fields but to country suitable for agriculture ?--A. Yes, for agricultural and pastoral settlement. 1259. Q. Have you any further suggestion to make ?-A. If we could only get passable tracks,

and· the country !explored, settlement would soon follow. 1260. Q. Have you any suggestion to make in regard to the land laws ?-A. None now, as I con­ sider the present land la,vs here the most liberal laws in the world. I am perfectly satisfied with

them. There is, however, the question of labour to cultivate the land. The one is of no use with­

out the other. 1261. Q. Have you ,any suggestion to make in regard to the supply of labour ?-A. No. What I came here to-day for is principally to suggest the

taxation of the natives in some form or other. I

have spoken to Government officials, but they are against it. In Ceylon the natives pay a tax of

2s. 4d. per ye.a.r. There is, native taxation in

Zululand, Natal, Fiji, and German Kew Guinea. If they can work those countries with taxation, why not let us make a start in a small way ? I do not

say tax the savage. I suggest it as a source of

revenue, and as a benefit to the native himself.

We should tax every able-bodied man in a settled district. I would suggest 5s. each on the natives from E1ast ,Cape to South Cape. Taxing the na­ tive would make him industrious. It has been done in other places, and we can do it here. I have ob·

tained statistics from the Government officers , and estimate that within a radius of 50 miles from

Samarai ,th~: natives e arn betw een £5,000 and £6,000 per annum in cash. The Govern ment offi­ cials say that there would be a diffi cul ty in collect­ ing the tax. T:he fact of the ma tter is that it

would put a little more work on their shoulders, but it could be done in their periodical trips round their districts. They just see what the natives

are doing, and how they are gettin g on, and it

would be quite easy for them to coll ect the t ax as they are travelling round. The natives would all

.tohn Clunn, j\Jll., 2nd Oot., 1906.

48

be able to pay it. Samarai is the centre of the

trade of 1 ew Guinea, and no matter wllat part

labour is 1•equired for, they come here. The

nati,·es come 11ere in canoes, and cannot make the excuse that they cannot get work. I know the

nati,,e ,rell, and know his habits, and I think that if they were to make a trial of taxation, although there would be a little difficulty during the first year or so, it would be a success. You can teach the

native everything, and after a year or two you

would find him at the door with his 5s. tax. It

is very easy to make roads. 1\lr. Campbell started to make a road from East Cape to South Cape and round Rogeia and Sariba I slancls. If it were not for the mouths of the rivers, I could drive a buggy

from East to South Cape. There was some diffi­ cultv at first in getting the natives to work, but

as soon as they found that 1\Ir. Campbell was in · earnest, they did it. At my place, there was a

mile and a-half of road to make, and Mr. Camp­ bell told the natives that they would have to make it. They hesitated at first, but very soon did the

work. if the natives did not pay any tax that

was fixed, they should be made to work on the

roads. 1262. Mr. Okeden.--What time would you allow a boy to work out his 5s. tax ?-,1. I would make

him do a month, and let him keep himself. I

would not take him awa v from his own village.

From 1\lilne Bav to Soutl{ ,Cape I am certain there are 1,000 able-bodied lo1fers. The women do the work. 1263. Tlte Clzairman.-Then you consider tl:at

the present system is tending to make the native more slothful and useless than he was, originally? -A. Emphatically yes. 1264. Q. And you propose this system of taxa­

tion largely in the best interest of the nafr•;es them­ selves ?-A. Yes, for their benefit. 1265. Q. Is there anything further ?-A. Yes, in regard to the Tariff. Although we are part and

parcel of Australia, we are treated as a foreign

country. I have experimented in maize for the

last three years, and there is no time when we can­ not grow it. The maize crop . comes ~n in New

South Wales in March and Apnl, and m Queens­ land a month Later. From November to the end of March there is a scarcity of com in Australia,

and the price goes high. I would like the present

Tariff Tu· remain as it is, but for them to give us

a show during the time corn is scarce in Australia, that is to give us a certain preference over other

outside places. In this way ,Ye would not b:!

pitting our black labour against the white labour of Australia. 1266. Q. As this country is a Territorv of the

Commonwealth, you think it would be a fair thing to have a preferential tariff in yom favour and

against ether outside pla~es ?-A. Yes, so long as it does not come -info conflict with wbite Australian labo~r. I would be dead against it any other way. 1267. lllr. Herbert.-You are more Australian

than Papuan ?--A. Certainly I am, but I have

made my home here, and intend to live and die

here. 1268. The Clzairman.-Is there .anything else you wish to say ?-A. We import at the present time .£6,ooo worth of native food into Samarai in the

shape of rice. In this immediate district maize

arows splendidly, two and a-half crops a year, and I would suggest that as some time elapses in the ca.se of plantations before any return is derived. that something should be used as a catch crop, and

that the Gm'.e rnment 8hould buv this maize from the planters as food for the natives in gaol and

other places. I !1ave already offered to supply

maize meal at a muc:h low r price than they can

import rice for, and if I can get sufficient encout­ agement I will be prepared to put up steam mach­ inery for treating the maize. 1269. Q. Do you know ,yhether the native would

readily take the maize meal as a food instead ot

rice ?-A. My experience is only with my mrn boys on the plantations. I haYe given them this fot· !

and they eat it greedily.

ISADORE HERSCHTEL

·was further examined, as follows:-1270. Tlte Cltairman.-l understand you wis:1 to make a further statement?-A. Yesj 1 wish to say that although the present trader does trade

away a lot of tobacco, be trades aw.ay very little of it for the purchase of pearls. That takes place

only four months a year. With the tobacco be

buys beche-de-mer, copra, and other products. 1271. Q. You wish to have only a lease for

pearls, and that would not interfere ,\'ith other

traders dealing with those other articles ?-A. Thnt 15 so.

SAMUEL PIERSON HAUGHTON was sworn and examined, as follows:-1272. !1/r. 0/uden.-What is your fuli name?-­ A. Samuel Pierson Haughton.

1273. Q. What positior.s do you hold ?-A. Sub­ Collector of Customs, Postmaster, Shipping l\lasttr, and Assistant Health Officer. 127 4. Q. You are desirous of placing some evi­

dence before us ?-A. Yes. I was appointed here on the IIth .May1 1903, at .£250 a year and a resi­ dence. I am 52 years old. l understood verbally

from Su George Le Hunte that as long as my

work was done satisfactorily I was to receive a rise of .£25 a year up to .£350 as a maximum. Whe1! I arrived at Port Moresby the officials there ap­ parently did not want me. It interfered with the

arrangements they pad made. Another man, 1\Ir. Robertson, had been appointed. 1275. Q.. What caused you to come to that con­ clusion ?-A. I was r.ot treated even with common

civility when I landed. 1276. Q. Does that refer to all the service ?-A. No, to the Senior Officer of the Treasury. My ap­ pointment w.as a definite one of Sub-Collector at

Samarai, but he sent for me in a peremptory man­ ner, and said to .me that as my salary had com­

mer.ced I would have to work, and he put me to a junior clerk's work at Port Moresby when I had

been appointed to Samarai I had various inter­ views with him, and asked him if he would kindly instruct me as to the nature of my duties, and the only instructions which I received 'from him were

the prir.ted instructions handed to all officers 011 their appointment, which had no special reference to my duties. These were handed to me only half­ an-hour before I left on the Merrie England to come here. I was there a little more than a week.

I asked for interview with Mr. Ballantir.e, but did not get them. 1277. Q. Was any reason given fo you?--A. 'o. I 278. Q. Have you any knowledge of any rea­

son ?-A. No. On my arriv?.l here 1 ca.me up with Sir George Le Hunte, and )Ir. Robertsor:, who was acting as Sub-Collector here, immediately resigned. There was only another as istant here. I aw Sir

George Le Hunte, and he had an interview \Yith l\lr. Robertson, and ).fr. Vi\'iar. the Second ... lerk, in

connexion with the change. In ronnexion with that foterview, he wrote m a memo. to the !Teet tlut

I was to put one room in my quarters at 1 r.

49 S. P. Haughton, 2nd Oct., 1906.

Robertsor.'s disposal, and so long as the fourth room was not occupied, it was to be placed at l\lr.

Armit's disposal. Subsequently l\lr. l\IacAlpine, Mr. Campbell's assistant here, was given quarters in my building without reference to me, leaYing one room only for myself. He was sent there by l\lr.

1:3allantir:e. I applied to have the original condi­ tion of three rooms to myself carried out. I in­

tended to get married, but could not bring her up to one room. Before leaving for my holidays 1::tst ;,;ear l wrote asking that the condition that three rooms should be allowed should be carried out, and

was told that the conditior..s o'f the service would not permit of it being done. In the event of my get­

ting married, another room would be placed at my disposal. The quarters are not mine-thev are

simply the bachelors' quarters. ,

127 9. Q. Were there any arrangements made be­ fore you came here that you were to be married,

and vYould require quarters?-A. I told Sir George Le Hur:te that I was not likely to remain a

bache1or. 1280. Q. Is there .anything else ?-.4 . I am s.till getting £250 a year, and every man who came up with me has received an increase. The Com­

mandant is receiving £300 a year and full quar­ ters. Mr. Higginson h1s recer.tly got an increase of £so, and Mr. Jewell <.1lso has received an in­ crease. :My junior officer has received three rises of

;f, 2 5 each sine:(; I came here, and m v other a:ssistant got £25. T got n0 increase, and, in fact, was cut

dowr. in the matter of (1Uarters. I wrote direct to the Governor, and the letter was returned by ihe

head of my Department, and I _ received a repri­ mand for writing direct. I said that I had placed

the matter before the head of my Department be-'fore, and that the Colonial Service Rule was that when an officer had a grievance a~air.st a senior ufficer, he had the right t0 apply direct t0 thP Ad­

ministrator. and th::ct is where the matter :now

rests. The Engineer on board· the Ruby gets --(2 more :i year than I do. He gets £200 and £52

:1llowan;e . I get no allowance. My assistant gets £200 and overtime, amounting to £50 or £60 a year, which oractically brings his salary uo to mine. I .am not allowed to charge overtime. On one or

two occasions I have charged a fee for attendance ,11·1 Sundav. The Sub-Collector at Daru, \fr.

Symons, receives £27 5 and full quarters, ,and he c:,llerts ;l"-1so a. year compared with mv £12,000. 1281. //fr. Herbert.-Does he fill any other posi­ tion as weJ l as Sub-Collector and Postmaster ?-A.

Y c:s, he 1s also Assistant Resident Magistrate. 1282. Q. And you are r..ot?-A. No. He does

not collect the expenses of his office. My position was rather a weak one until the Comm011wealth Officer came here. He has been five weeks going through mv books, and I am satisfied he will re­

port favorably. Before that Mr. Ballantin.e brought :t number of charges .agair:st me. I demed them, and he suspended me. 1283. Mr. Okeden.-What year was that ?-A. The inquiry was held on the 26th December, 1903,

just six months after I came here. He wanted to

transfer me to Port Moresby at a reduced salary. That is in writina. I demanded an ir..quiry, which was granted to .~e. It was held in this ?ffice by

the Governor 1r1 Council who went folly mt0 the matter, and spent five or' six hours over it, .with the result fi1at I was reir.stated the next mormng, and ~fr. Robertson, who was my assistant, and was kept

here :-igainst m,· will, sent in his resignadon. I had previously suspended him for being drunk and making mistakes, for which I was blamed. 1284. Q. Before that occurred, had you .made representations that the man was not suitable ?-A. No. I had mentioned lhe matter to the Acting Ad-

F.14262.-D. ·

rmmstrator, Mr. Robinson, in a private conversation. ~ly evidence given here during the inquiry was, ie my opinion, damaging to Mr. Ballantine. It was so strong in some things that he withdrew· from the

Council while I was givir..g it, and he told me that it was unnecessary to go into the charges I was mak­ ing, as there was nothing against my character and integrity. He said that in the Council room. I

said that I preferred to go on with them, ar..d I

went on with the charges, and he subsequently left the room. The Judge said he did not think it neces­ sar1• to go on with the charges, .and the inquiry then closed. Since ther. I have had no rise in my salary>

and they have tried to cut me down. While I was away on my holidays last year, by Mr. Ballantine's instruc:tions all the creepers were t.:ut down in .my garden, leaving it as bare as a barrack. The

charges he brought against me were absolutely false. 1285. Mr. Okeden.-Have you applied person­ ally to 1\fr. Ballantine or the Governor in regard to your sa.lary ?-A. Yes, quite recently. The Go­ vernor says he cannot give it to me unless it is re­ commended by the head of rr.y Department.

1286. Q. Have you had any interview with Mr. Ballar,.tine on the subject ?-A. Not since that. Not recentlv. 1287- Mr. H erbert.-Since the inquiry into those c::··.arges against you, has there been any complaint

b:, the head of your Department against you ?-A. );°0 , not in any way except ie minor departmental thin r:s of no importance. 1238. Mr. Okeden.-Have you anything else to

say ?-A. Since I have been here the revenue has gone up from £9,000 to £12,000, and I have the :;ame staff.

THE' IIONORABLE ALEXANDER MALCOLM CAMPBELL, M.L.C., was further examined, as follows :-1289. The Clzairman.-Do you find that in · your Division the natives are beginning to 1ay claim to unoccupied lar:d more readily than they used to?­ A. They- are spreading out, and occupying land which was unoccupied by them .a few years ago.

1290. Q. Have you any specific cases of that

sort ?- A. Yes, on the north-east coast, where,

until very recently, land was unoccupied for years until ar. application was put in for 160 acres by a European, and shortly after I 'found a village of about five houses there. When I went to measure off the land the natives said it belonged to them. I asked them what right they had to it-had they ::ver cultivated it? They said, No. I asked if

they had hunted on it, and they answered r:o. I

asked them how they, then, could substantiate their claim, and they said that sometimes they used to co.me down to the beach to collect shell-fish. I

asked them if it was not a fact that they had come down and built the village simply because they had learned that a white man was going there. After some hesitation they said, " Yes, that was so.'' The

village is still there, but the white man got the land, because, after what thP. y had said to me, I con­ sidered they could not substantiate their claim, and I gave the land to the white man.

1291. Q. Do you anticipate any difficulties from the natives when white men come ir. and take up land ?-A. I do not think the natives .are favorable to the white men coming- on the land. I think there 1Yi ll be trouble in acquirir.g land.

r292. Q. You have a good deal of prison labour in Samarai ?-A. Yes. 1 293. Q. What are you doing with it ?-A. We

are building wharfs, reclaiming the foreshore, put­ ting up a building for the Special Hospital, putting up riuarantine buildings at the Quarantir.e Station,

A. ll!. Onmpbe11, 2nd Oct., 1006.

50

and other labour, if it is available, is discharging vessels in port.

emp lo) ed in I:; that, in ) our oprn1on, correct ?-A. ~ -o, it i n t. 0 f the 2 7 2 cases under treatment in the Special Hos-

1294. Q. Do you get payment "for the latter

,rork ?-A. Yes, we charge 2s. for eight hours' ,rork. The money is naid into revenue. 1295. Q. In the ever:t of settlement increasing on the mainland, would you be able to utilize those

prisoners, or some of them, for opening up roads? -A. Yes, we could use all the good-conduct men for that purpose. In reg_ard to tl].e Native Regula­ tion, -o. 3 of 1895, natives to tne number of• 25,

belor.ging to different parts 0£ the Eastern Division, were during the period from the 1st January, 1905, to the 30th September, 1906, sentenced to various terms of imprisonment, not exceeding seven days,

for neglecting to make roads. 1296. Q. D0 you think the cor:ditions for taxing the Papuans to-day are as 'favorable as they were for taxing the Fijians when taxation was first en­

forced in Fiji ?-A. In regard to some of the tribes, Yes. .

, 1297. Q. I am referring to those under Govern-ment idluence ?-A. Yes, I think so. Not only

Fijians :1re taxed, but Samoans, Tongans, Rara­ tongans, a-nd Gilbert and Ellice Islanders.

SAMUEL PIERSON HAUGHTON

was further examined, a.s follows:-

pital here

Eastern. While ,re get only a small percentage of the cases among the general Papuan population, there is little danger of a case in a police boy es­

caping immediate notice. 1305. Q. Ha,·e those cases among the police beet~ of long standing or ne,dy contracted ?-A. -ewly contracted. They are among the simplest cases I

haYe had to treat. r306. Q. From what you have s.aid, is it proper to conclude that those seven members of the Armed ~ative Constabulary are merelr sufferers from, a.ind not disseminators of, the disease which has been introduced by others ?-A.. Yes. '

r 307. i11r. Okeden.--From which of the four divisions was the greater number of the 272 cases taken ?-A. From the Eastern Division.

1:298. Tl1e Cltairrnan.-Q. Are you master here?-A. Yes. •

r 308. Q. What proportion of Papua do these four divisions represent ?--About one-third. I should like to add to my former evidence that I think that the percentage proposed to be applied towards the relief of aged and infirm natives under the Land OrdinancP

,rnuld be better 1applied to the establishment and ~1pkeep of general a.s well as lock hospitals, which the harbor- rn ~l~e course of time would also give good oppor­ tumtles for research work in connexion with tropical

1299. Q. Are the conditions .a.s laid down by the I\Ierchant Shipping Act carried out here ?-A. So far as we are able to do so. The Act has not been

adopted in full. . .

1300. Q. With regard to Part III., deahng with passenger and immigrant ships, is clause 271 in force here ?-A. It is not carried out. On one or two

occasions I asked Mr. Ballantine for, information in c~nnexion with ships, but could not get anything de­ finite from him. On one occasion I drew his atten­ tion to the fact that, in my opinion, a boat was not

in a fit condition to go to sea .'.lnd carry the number of passengers she did. He asked if a,ny one on

bo:ud made any objection. I 1said, "No, I had

onlv heard rumours." He let the matter drop. i301. Q. So th~t a steamer could le,ave Sam:irai with a large number of passengers, only one boat, defective engines, and from a sanitary stand-point

be unfitted to carry pa.ssengers at all ?-A. I was ~n­ struded that unless any person objected I was to take no action. this 1302. Q. As harbor-master? do you consider a satisfactory state of things ?-A. I do not.

ELEVENTH DAY.

WEDNESDAY, JRD OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE CusToMs HousE~ SAMARA!.)

Present:

\V. E. PARRY-0KEDEN, Esq., I.S.0. (Chairman); Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

DR. ROBERT FLEMI G JONES

was further examjned, as follmn :-r 303. Mr. llerbert.-Q. Have you in your du.ty a:; Gm·ernment ::\J dical Officer to attend to the K atiYc Constabulan~ ?-A. Yes.

r304. Q. ·It has been stated that the Armed Katin~ Cons,t,ahula.ry a.re responsible· for 1.hC" introduction and spread of ,•enereal disease among the nafo·es.

medicine. 1309. 111r. H erbert.-Can vou account for the con­ tinuous heavy death-rate amoi'ig the native carriers in the ~ort~ern Division ?-A. This death-rate occurs,

I think, 111 the neighbourhood of Tamata. I have ~1

mf_ormat1qn from Europeans in that district, from which I conclude that the cause of the deaths is a very_ local on~. It _is more dangerous to engage as earner for this portion of the district than to be en­

gaged in the Russian-Japanese War. 1310. Q. What is _the best course to determine the ~ause, ,and reme~y it ?-:-A.. The ooly way in which Jt can be accomplished is to ,send a medical man with

tropical experience to die Iorthern Division for a sufficient length of time to determine what the cause of this alarming death-rate is . This could be done perhaps, in two or three months. I belie,·e the deiatl/

rate could be stopped. 1311. Q. Have you given -rour views to the Ad· rninistrator ?-A. Yes, at his re

TWELFTH DAY.

FRIDAY, 5TH OCTOBER, r906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERNMENT STATION, BONAGAI.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. ::\1ACKAY, C.B., :.\LL.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0. ::\Ir. Justice C. E. Herbert,

~Jr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

FRANCIS GILL

was sworn and examined, a follmYS :-13:.: 2. T!te Clwirma1t.-,Vhat is vour name ?-A. Francis Gill. ·

1 3 T 3. (). What position do you occupy ?-A.

The duties I was appointed to and gazetted on

page 65 of the 190--1- Gazette are as fol!mrs :-Resi­ dent Magistrate for the Possession · Assistant Resi­ dent Magistrate for the South-Easter~ DiYision · \,Var­ den for the South-Eastern DiYision · Macristr~te for

Native Affairs, District ... -o. 3 ; Eur;peat~ fficer of the A.N.C.; Assistant Gaoler for the.South-Eastern Divi_sion; Inspector under the Indigenous Timber Ordrnance of 1892; Inspector under the Pearl Shell

and Beche-de-mer Fishing Ordinance. On the 1st July.,. 1905, I was gazetted as Postmaster, Wood­ lark Isbnd; and on the 26th August, 1905, I was gazetted Inspector of Mines.

1 ,'F 4 . Q. What salary do you receiYe ?--A.

£2.10 per annum. .

1315. Q. What is the wage earned by a. ,rnrki.ng miner here ?-A. The ordinary wages come to a Jittl12 over £4 per week. With overtime they make from £5 to £6 a week.

r 31 6. Q. You say you are Inspector of i\Iines.

Are y_ou qualified for that position ?-A. No. r ,317. (2. Does it clash in any way with your posi­ tion . ,'ls Warden ?-A. Undoubtedly. 1318. Q. As Inspector of Mines, would ..,-ou have to report to yourself as Mininrr Warden ?-A. Yes.

r 319. I see that one of your positions is that of

Assistant Gaoler. Who is the Gaoler?-A. Mr.

Elliott is Gaoler and Overseer. r:po. Q. As Magistria.te are you senior to Mr.

Elliott ?-A. Yes. r 3 2 1. Q. As Assistant Gaoler are you Mr. Elliott's subordinate ?-il. Yes; although tlut is probably an error. .

1322. Q. I nnderst:ind that the station at Woo?· lark pays its w,2y ?-.cl. It has always more thain p:ud it~ wav. 1323. Q. Has Woodlark been credited :vith this? -A. Yes, a.11 but the Customs. All the direct taxa.­

tion is shown. From now on it will show the Cus­ toms. 1324. Q. How is. it that your post-?ffice is a mile and a half from the centre of population here ?-A. It was moved from Kulamadau to Bonagai last Ye:u,

r 90 5. Strong protests were made against it at the time. r 32 5. Q. Is it not a fact that alth~u;gh the post­

office has been moved to its present position you have a box at Kulamad1u ?-A. Yes; it answers. the pur­ pose of a pillar-box. There is one at Busa1 also. . 13 26. Q. Have not men to be taken from their

emplo yment to carry the letters to and . from_ the post-office and the town?-A. Yes; and I ha,e _to be taken from other employment to sort the mails and keep the post-offi~e _books. As; vya.rden, I _h~Y~ to visit the outside mmmg camps on r~gular da_} s , but ·when a steamer is. expected h~re with a_ mail I have to postpone my vi~its to receIYe the mail, so:t, and despatch it to outside camps. .

1327 . l'lf r. H erbert.-Is there ~nuch ~at_iYe-owned land on this island ?-A. Yes; t11e maJonty of the la.nd is natiYe-mvned. . .

r 33 s. Q. In the event of gold-bearmg re~fs being found on that land, is there .any law applicable to 'such a case ?-A. The only law is that th~ Govern­ ment mav purchase the land from the nativ~.

·Q - Th onl v w av to get over the di'fficu l ty T 3 2 9 · . e , , l f th

would be for the Government to purc1ase rom e native ?-4. Yes. 1330_ Q. And, in the event of the native being

unwilling to sell, no mining could be done on that land ?--A. Ko. h

Q Can '-"OU surrgest any remedy for sue 1 33 r · · J b · · 1 A t . a c~se ?--A. Only by passing a s1mi_a~ c ~s. i~ · f · tl1e Atistralian States relatmi,; to mm1t1 0 1'11 orce 111 L on priYate property. .· ? T 1 c·, z· ma?"' -Have you anv gnevanres. 1 332. ,ze ,za r •· - - -.4. Yes.

51 Francis Gill, 5th Oct., 1906.

r333. Q. Will .)OU state their nature?-A. Yes. I am jnsuJlicientl y paid for the duties l perform. \Vh~n l undertook to take up the position here as V\' arden and i\lag:•strate, in accordance ,with the notice in the Commomrealth Government Gazette, I

\Yas satisfied to take the salary of £ 2 50 to perform those duties; but s:ncc mv arrival here I have had numerous other o5c::-3 ~dc'. -2 d to my duties, some of which I was fullr conversant with, and others I was not, when I arrived. I performed the duties to the

satisfaction of my Department without pay of any kind. l have been here two years, performing

those duties. I have applied for leave of absence. On the first occasion I was told that money was the difficultr. That was after I wa:s here twelve

months.' I did not apply again for twelve months. I\I y application was put in i1n June last, and the

only reply I have received is that the consideration of it is postponed for the present. Before I left

::\Jelbourne I understood that I was entitled to cer­ tain leaYe every year. The salary of my prede­ cessor was £27 5, and he did not perform the duties of postmaster. He was offered £ 2 5 to perform

them, but he refused, and the duti'es were not car­ ried out by him. 1334. Q. Were you asked if you would under­

take the duties of postmaster ?-A. No. I was

written to by the Chief Postmaster in the first in­ stance, two months before I took the duties over, and subsequently by the Government Secretary. There was a month between the two letters, and I

was informed in the latter that 1 had to take over the duties of the post-office on the 1st July. No

materi1 als ,vere sent to me to carry on the duties. I

was told to take over from Mr. Finn, the then

postma_ster at Kulamadau, all books and pap_ers. Mr. Fmn had never kept any books except receipts for registered letters. I had to open aii the books. I got the books on the r st July. I got a. few from

Finn, but not a complete set. He had neve'r opened them. I received no stamps or anv material for

conducting the office, but -received · a:n instruction from the Administrator on the 5th July, five days after I took over from Finn, who ,vas. then at

Bonagui with l\Ir. Ballantine, the Chief Postmaster, an order to requisition for all necessary supplies, including pos.tage stamps. ·

1335. Q. I understand that you were ordered to take over the post-office two months before? -A. Yes; the letter was dated two months before.

1336. Q. But the Chief Postmaster sent you no books or material of any descripti'On to enable you to carry on the work ?-A.. ~ o. 1337. Q. Then, on the arriv.a1l of the Adminis­

trator with Mr. Ballantine, in July, you pointed this fact out ?-A. It was evidenrt tci them. 1338. Q. You were then told to requisiti•on for supplies ?-A. Yes; ctnd it was two months before I got them. Mr. Ballantine sent me £5 worfh of postage stamps from Samarai to go on with.

1339. Q. As you had no postage stamps for a

considerable period after you took over, how did you manage ?-A. For the first mail I used my pri­ vate stamps, some 15s. worth. After they were

used I had to send the money with the letters to

Samarai1 • Afterwards I received advice that £20

worth had been forwarded from Port Moresby by registered letter. They did not arrive. I wrote to

Port :.\Ioresby about them, and it was explained that thev had been sent somewhere else. I 340. ·· Q. Have your relations with the head of

the Post Office been of a satisfactory character ?­ A. I cannot say that they have, inasmuch as I was reported improperly. r 341. Q. Will you tell the Commission the ci'r­ cumstances? - A. I receiverl a Jetter from Mr.

Champion, tb Acting Chief Postmaster, early in D2

Francis Gill, 5th Oct., 1900.

52

the present year, informing me that the Chief Post­ ma ter had found it necessary to report me to the Admini·strator for neglect of duty as postmaster, ina much as mails "·ere continually being received

at Samai'ai with the stamps not obliterated, date stamps net affixed--; money due for Customs duties., on registered letters and parcels post, not coll<:cted or remitted to Samarai. On receiving this, I pomted

out I had performed my duty, had always

sent a copy of my cash-book, and had always re­ mitted the duty as soon as possible after I had

received it, and the transcripts of my cash-books, which had been forwarded to Port :Moresby, will be found in the office. I denied the charge of not elate-stamping or obliterati1ng the postage stamps on

letters, and pointed out that, to give rise to these charges, there must be confusion between private mail-bags and official mails from this office, when opened at Samarai, and instanced a case where the

postmaster at Samarai1 had returned to me three parcels which were insufficiently stamped, stan:ips not obliterated, and no parcel bill accompanying them, and requested me ta put them in order and return them to Samarai. I returned them to Sama­

rai., and pointed out to the postmaster that those parcels were seen by me for the first time when he sent them, that he had received them in N"elsson and Shedden's pri'vate mail-bag along with numerous letters on which, of course, the stamps were not obliterated or date-stamp affixed, a11J this may have occurred with other private bags which came from

Woodlark, and not through my office, and I re­ quested him to see that his assistants used a little more discrimination in sorting. I received no reply to that. Mr. Haughton, postmaster at Samarai, in­

formed me subsequently that he was requested by Mr. Ballantine to report me. The result of mt

explanation to the Administrator of the charge which Mr. Champion told me that Mr. Ballantine had ma.de, was a letter I received from Hi's Excellency, through the Government Secretary, stating that he had carefully perused all the documents and m:: explanation, and he was satisfied that my duties as

postmaster and the affairs of the post-office were efficiently performed.

1342. Q. Did your official head - that is, the

Chief Postmaster- call upo~ you for an explanation before reporting you to the Administrator for neg­ lect ?- A. No. I am also placed in a11 awkward

.position in connexion with th~ expenditure of moneys on roads and works about the island for which sums are voted. We were allowed last year £ 2 5 for ex­ penditure on road construction on the island. That

expenditure is not in cash, but, we requisition to the Govemr.ient Storekeeper for stores and trade, such as tobacco and knives which the natives use. Out of £25 allowed last year, I only . received the ap­

propriation for the year 1906-7 by last mail, on 15th September, and then I found no appropriation had been made for the current year for this "·ork. I had not received any previous intimation that there

would not be any. I requisitioned for stores on

account of that service in the month of April last, for expenditure for tbe first six montbs of the current vear, to the extent of £12, and I have from my

itores expended some £5 or £6 already. When the appropriation came along, I found there was no amount ,rhatever under this vote. The amount had been left out altogether. The Treasurer, who is

also GoYernment Storekeeper, is particular that I am precise in keeping the store accounts, but unless he also is precise it leavesi me in a Yery awk,rnr

1343. Q. How do you account for this state of confusion in the Treasury Department ?- A. The great want of experience oni his part.

I 34-+· Q. What ,us your former e. perience in

Australia ?--A. Tn Queensland T held the position in the first in tance of Accountant to the Go,ern­ ment Sa,·i.nrrs Bank in the Treasun· Department, :rnd ,ms the::° first to initiate the Gm·e;nment Saviogs

B:rnk in Queensland. I haYe also held positions as Clerk of P ett,· Sessions, )lining Registrar,

Warden, and Postmaster on all the important gold­ fields in Queensland, and subsequently similar posi­ tions in Western Australia, including that cf Under­ Secretan- for Mines and Chairman of Quarter Sessions~

1345. Q. Have you gCYt the Gazette in which

applications were called for your present pc•sition? - -A. Yes, I produce it. It is in the issue elated

30th July, r904. 1346. Q. Do you know of any other instance of official neglect in regard to Woodlark ?-A. Ye;; vVhen the Papua Act was passed there ,rere no copies of it ;rrnilable on Woodlark Island. Being

anxious to know the purport of the Act, and as

nothing had come to me officiallv, I wrote to the Gowrnment Printer in Melbourne, and obtained t\\·o copies. One of these I supplied to Mr. More­ ton, the Resident I\Iagistrate of this Division, and the other bas been the onlv one in use on this island to the present day. I have had several inquiries for copies, but have been unable to supply them, and

when asked b,· the Administrator to call a meeting of the assesso;s of the Warden's Court, to ask them to nominate some one to represent them in the Le­ gisla.tive Council under the Act, my copy was the only one I had to circulate round the island. If I

ha

now ?--A. Ko, the one 1 have referred to is the

only copy here. There is another instance of con­ fusiOll1 arising qut 6f inexperienced men being heads of Departments. . A carpenter was sent here by Mr. MacDonald, to make certain alterations and erec­

tions. I received one set of instructions with re­ gard to this man's work, while he. himself produced another set which varied in important details. Bear­ ing on the Government Stores Department, I may

mention that "·hen the Administrator was here with the Treasurer, he received a deputation in July, 1905, which among other matters, asked him if he would hav

garbage. His Excellency told therrL he ,vould bave it done, and instructed me to have it carried out. I requisitioned for a dozen scoop shovels in August, 1905, to the Department of Works, in order to do the work, but they have not yet been received.

Dealing; with the Treasury Department, I had in the office a supply of rough cash-books which were not suitable for the purposes of the accounts to be kept. In accorda:nce with audit regulations, each

item is to be entered in the cash-book under a

separate head and extended. I requisitioned for two books ,vith double ledger lines in last April, as the one I had in use was nearh· used up. On send­ ing me my stores and other articles I had requisi-• tioned for in July, I was told these had not been

sent, and I was asked by memo. what I wanted

them for. In the meantime, I had to open thi

year's accounts in the orclinan- rough cash-books I had in stock, and on the 1sth September last,

I received two more rough cash-book of the sort I already had in stock.

1348. Q. So that after a delay of six months

vou were without the verv neces arv cash-books vou requisitioned for ?- A. Yes. When I arrived l;ere to take up my office, I found no letter-book of any description had been kept, nor "·a th re a l tte;­

pr s in th office. I had to write out copies of all

my letters to keep. I wrote t.o the T .

in(r out th· reasurer, pomt-

o . is, and that I could not keep proper re-

cords without a press "'}d asl-ed fo • _ • - , cw. • "" r one as soon ,l~ pos~ible. ~1y predecessor had managed with a t 1

) pewnter, which he had taken away with him ancl urrrentlv needed one tl l ' .o . or 1e ot 1er. They sent me a ty pewnter eventually, but I wanted a COI)Yin

THIRTEENTH DAY. SATURDAY, 6n-I OCTOBER, 1906. (Tim COMMISSION MET IN THE STORE OF i\fassRs. NELSSON & SHEDDEN, AT KULAMADAU.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chainnan); W. E. ~arry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., l\[r. Justice C. E. Herbert,

:iir. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

ARTHUR BRIDLE

,vas sworn ai1d examined, as follows :-1349. T!te Clzairma11•.-vVhat is your name?­ A. Arthur Bridle. 1350. Q_. What is your occupation ?-A. Man­ ager of the Kulamadau mine.

1351. Q. How long have you been on Wood­

la.rk ?-r-1. Four and a half years. 1352. Q. Am I tc understand that you represent a number of miners in the views you are going to

express ?-:--A· Yes. At :i. meeting here last night,

th_ere being 40 present, Messrs,. F. Weekley, W. Little, T. Boylan, and myself \Yere appointed to lay our views before the Commission. 1353. Q. Thlen the views of those four will

practically be the views of the 40 miners present last night ?-,1. Yes. 1354. Q. vVhat is the first matter ?-A. The pos;: office at Bonagai i too far away from the centre

where the people live. It should be at Kulama­

dau. It is now between one and t\ro miles a\\'a,·.

Until quite recently, it was at Kulamadau. ,

1355. Q. Did the people make any protest when it ,ms moved ?-A. Yes. But the office was not

moved back again here. Instead, they put up a

letter box, and provided a man to carry the mail

up here when it arrived, and distribute it among

the people. 1356. Q. Do you consider that as satisfactory

as having the post office here ?-il.. :!\o. You ha,·e to go there for stamps or for any parcels, as t'he~

will not deliver parcels ,Yitbout you go and sign

for them, and people coming here from outside

have a further walk to 13onagai to transact business at the post office. The letters are de livere d here .

but if 8.11V one \Yere to he a little late the \· woulcl

have to go to Bonagai for them. TJ1e Warden' s

office also is at Bonagai, and \Ve consider thnt too far away. We ask that it be at Kulamadau.

1357.-Q. Is K.ulamadau the centre of population on Woodlark ?-A. So far it bas been. 1358. O. Taking the outside mines. Would_ it be nearer for the men to come- from the outside

mines to Kulamadau than to where the Warrlen's office is at present ?-A. To the 1:1ajoritY of mf>n it ,yould. There is a lot of hnsmf'ss vou han· to

do at the Warden's office at various timc>s, and it gives ;i, Jot of trouble running backw:ircls a:1cl for wards to it. · It would be better to han' 1t her{'.

53 Arthur Bridle, 6th Oct., 1906.

and open only a few hours a day. Often the

Warden may ~ away, and when we get to Bonagai we _ha:re our 3ou~·ney for nothing, and have to go agam. There 1s no money order business here

and it is very inconvenient ;n account of so mud; money _being sent from here to the other States. There is. n?. bank here in which we can put our

money. L: we want to send monev to our families on the other side, we haYe to get., notes· and send them by post. We spoke about the matter to Mr.

Atlee Hunt when he was here. 1359. Q. Did you e\'er apply to the Administra­ ~or or the Treasurer?-A. I am not sure. I think

it ,ms only spoken of to Mr. Atlee Hunt wh'en he was here. ·

THE HONORABLE FRED. WE'EKLEY, M.L.C., wa.s sworn and examined, as follows:-1360. Tlte Clzaz'nnan.-Wha.t is \'Our name?-A. Fred. Weekley. ,

1361. Q. And your occupation ?- A. Miner and leaseholder. 1362. Q. What public position do mu hold ?-A. I am a member of the Legislative Council.

1363. Q. How long have you been on Woodlark? -A. Ten years on the 1st of last August. ~364. Q. Are . you a member of the deputation which was appomted by the miners last night?­ A .. Yes. In regard to the question of the adminis­ trat~on of t!1is division; at the present time, the

Semor Magistrate of the division seems to me to be employed solely in administering the affairs of the natives, with the exception of a small number of w:iit~ residents at St. Aignans and Sudest.

The JUI~10,r officer o'.f the division is the person who deals w1th any affairs that relate to the interests of the w.hi!~ residients of this island. I consider that the J?OSitlon should be reversed, and that the Senior ?1Iagistrate should ?eal w~th the far more important matters o_f ~he white res1dents of this place, and that the JUmor officer should deal with the natives. The . onerous duties carried out by the Assistant

~_fag1strate and Warden of this island are not suffi­ c1entl v well paid. No labouring man on this is­

land. gets less than £5 a week. 0 The salarv of the

Magistrate and Warden hardly comes up to that. 1365. Q. Am I to understand that the man who has to sit in judgment in mining cases is paid less salary than the workin()' miner on Woodlark ?-A

Yes. b ·

1366. 0. Referring to your remarks as to the

change of pos.itions. Are they in anv sense to be taken as referring personally ?-=-A. N;. 1 am not spea~ing of the officers holding the positions. I consider that the positions should be chano-ed and

that the relative ,;-a.lue of the \\·ork done is E1 f ~vour of the Resident Magistrate being stationed at

Woodlark. r.36 7. Q. There are three officials at Woodlark? --A .. Yes, in th e South-eastern Division. Two offi­ cers are permanently stationed here.

r 368. 0. Do Y?U consirler it would be possible to make any reduction ?- A. Yes, ,rithout impairing th e efli ciencv of the service. 1369. Q. ' Do you consider that a Resident l\Iagis­ trat~ and an Assistant Resident Mao-istrate could do the work which is at present perfo~ed b,· the three offic ers here ? - 4. Yes.' that is at ptesent performed.

~f course, makmg this a !)Ort of entn· will make a d1 ff e rence.

1370. Q. In rc>gard io the proposed mone,· ordt'T office. do you .r~n'J."''mber if this matter was put be­ fore the Admmislrator?- A. Yes, it was. 137r: Q. And what replv did you rece ive ?­ .4. --As far as T can recollect, the Administrator

"Fred. Weekley, 6th Oct., 1906.

54

called i\lr. Ballantine to explain the matter. Ur. Ballantine gave various reasons, the chief one be­ ing a financial reason, which, it was said, it was

impossible to overcome., and so tbe matter dropped. 1372. Q. Could you give me any idea of the

'\'Olume of business that would take place if this money order office were opened ?-A. ~o. 1t

would be quite easy to get it from the storekeepers and managers. 1373. Q. Is there anything further you would

like to . put forward ?-A. In regard to native

labour, we have come to the conclusion that we

should make no expression in regard to the re­

cruiting of native Jabour. 1374. Q. What is the Commission to gather

from that ?-A. The situaticn is this: At Woocl­ lark, we have no trouble in getting native labour. The roads here are easy to travel, .and the greater number 01f people are residents. and are well

known to the natives on the surrounding islands. They have been satisfied with our treatment in

the past, and appear to be willing- to come again and work with us. On the other hand, we quite

understand that we may. at any time, move from here, perhaps i:o 'the Northern, or some other

Division, where this trouble exists, and, although it may not affect us here, it mav affect us in the ·

future. I take it, on the whole. -that, although we

make no expression of opinion, we are in no sense against the idea of the Government taking over the recruiting of the natives. 1375. Q. Then are we to take it that if you were' in the Northerri Division instead of here, you would

be in favour of the Government taking over the

recruiting ?-A. Y es1 j I think so. 1376. Q,. Is there anything clse?~A. I hear,

although I have no real authority for saving so,

that the Government 1propo_ses to build a tram­ line from the bonded store that is to he pl aced at

Bonagai, to Kulamadau. The idea of the meeting was that any oonded store, or anything in con­

nexion with the CusWms Department, should not be at Bonagai. There js deep wafer nn th~; nth<"r side of the bay, where a vessel rould disch::ixge cargo, and a tram-line from that place mi rrht. at

some future time, be advisable. At Bonagai. there would alwan. be the question of lighteraQ"e to the bonded store. anrl. then the- tram line to Kul:1rn:1rla11. On the other side of the ba v, stores could be

landed at the iettv. and brough{ straigbt up, either bv tram-linP. or lightered from there. Thf' motion passed at the meeting w;,s: -" That in the event of anv trarn-lin~ heing huil t bv the Gov.Prnrnerit in

connexion with a honded store. it should he to deep water, sa,·. ti,·e fathoms." 1377. Q. Would the cost of the tram-line from your proposed site be hem·ier t11an from tbe start­ ing point proposed by the Government ?-A. Y~s.

1~78. Q. Do you think that the extra cost

would be compensated for bv the fact that no

lightering ,rnuld h~ reciuir.ed from your site?­ A. Yes . As a business proposition, I consider

that if a tram-line were necessarv. it ,rnuld be

better to have it from deen water rather than from the Bonagai site. I would like to say that we wer0 more or less of opinion that it was prem::1.fore to talk of a tram-line at pres, 0 nt, and tlrn.t if ;i bonrle

store ,yere put on the creek down hf're, it \YOU ld

meet all reriuiriements. If the pbce went a he-a

mak,e, exprrinlf'nts in tropir:il agrirulturP, ;ind QiW'. llS thf' 1 {'!lefits of hts rxnerienrf'. \Ve rlo not ],nO\\' ho,, trl gt , plant., nncl if thPrP Wfltf' snmie r,er. on

here to wham ,ve could apply for information, it might induce some of us miners to go in for ag-

riculture. 1379. Q. Are you satisfied ,vith the mining la,r~ ot Papua ?-A. These are my personal views I

am giving now. I think the mining !aws are satis­ factory. I ,rnuld suggest no alteration.

1380. Q. Would you fa\'Our the Government taking over the transport?-A. Yes; if the Go­ vernment could de,·ise a workable scheme, and take it up on business lines.

1381. Q. Do you think it would be more rehaole than the present system ?-A. It could be made

more reliable. r 382. Q. Do you consider that: 'rlhe Adminis-tration is favorable to mining development?­ A. Yes. I have no reason to think otherwise.

1383. Q. Do you consider the prison system here satisfactory ?-A. No; I do not. A boy, af the

present time, is, quite satisfied to go to gaol and

have .a good /time. It is no punishment ,to ia

native in your emplov to ·tell him that you wilJ

tell the Gov,~rnment about some of the misdeeds he has committed. He would simply tell you that

the gaol is alright. 1384. Q. Then you would advocate making it more of a punishment than it is at presellt ?-A ..

Certainly, I would. 1385. Q. Do you consider that the present im­ prisonment is a deterrent to crime ?-A. It is not. Tn most cases. the police force as recruited in New Guine:1 are old crnwictecl prisoners. They get

:t liberal scale of food, and tobac::o to smoke, and not much work to do. 1386. llfr. Ok·eden.-You ha.,·e stated that you thought that the staff could be reduced so as to

get the 1present work done .pfficiently? rookinrr at the fact th:1t you re (Juire a Warden of some exneri­ eince, cnuldi }you make ·any ~urgestlio.ns ?-A. I think the circ:umstanres wi11 be aJter,ed shortly,

and " ·e ,rill r eci uire the s:ime number of offiic:ih. as we have at present, owing to this being made a.

port of entry. We . will require a ·warden. I

think some of the duties c:ould be flone by the

Gaoler, Mr. Elliott. q87. Q. Do you think it would be an advantage to have white police ?-A. I think so; but I do

not press it. We would not stand a. black police­

man here. r 388. Q. Do vo11 know if there has been anv

SUfVe_r Or sale O:f J.1-nd at the cl.eep \Y:l.ter \Yhere YOU state the tram-line should be commenced?­

A. I do not know of any private property there.

A considerable frontage could be utilized even if there ,ms nri vat,e prop,erty there. r389. Tlte Clzairman.·-Is the Commission to conclude that you are all perfectly satisfied with

the Administration as it is carried out at present

~n r gard to mining ?--A. I should say that, speak­

mg gen-erall,·, and also personallY, that the mining communitv is not satisfied. -

1390. Q. Can you gin.; me any indication as to

what the eau. e js ?--Jl. A great deal of friction

ha. been caused b\· the _ -ative Labour Ordinance but i.t is now remedied. ' '

1 39,. (). Then, a.p:ut from the _ -ative Labour

Ordinnncc, are the miners quite contented ·,with the pre. ent methods nf arlministration ?-ii... I

110~11<1 not like to commit nw e lf to sav the,· were.

The miners ar easih· sa1isfierl. and ·onh· -require to lie le-ft alone. ·

, 392. (). Then YOU frel tlwr is realh· nothina

at·. 1~r ,'. c:nt which sl;oul c1 _r ta_rcl the clcF·lopm('f1t of 111111111g rn P::ip11.1? .1. oth111g that I knmr of.

1393. J!r. llcrbcrt. ~ rc the present nunmg

kn m nt. nt \Voodlark on rown land ?- A. re ,

55 'l'boma.s BoylRn, Gth Dot., l!J06.

1394. Q. Has gold been found on native-owned land ?-A. Yes ; I believe in one instance. 1395. Q. Has any difficulty arisen in obtaining a tenure there? A. I understand that the native

says he will not allow his land to be taken foi:i

mining. 1396. (?.. Do you fores.ee any difficulty in the

future owmg to the fact that so much of the land

is owned by natives, and there is no statute to allow of that land being acquired ?-A_. Yes. I am not

certain but that some of the mines in Kulamadau could not be jumped at present, as the land may not have been properly purchased from the natives. I heard that a nafo, here had stated that the land

on which one of the mines was situated "·as his pro­ perty, but he has -not prosecuted his claim. 1397 . . Tl1e Clwirman.-Is the legal administra­ tion of the mining law good ?-A. Yes, g,enerally

speaking it is good. 1398. Q. Have you anything further to place

before the Commission in regard to the Administra­ tion ?-A. I think the native p0lice have too much latitude, and if the ~fagistrate has the power to

keep them in their place he should do so, and also the prisoners. I ha Ye seen both prisoners and

police sitting on the grass at the Government' resi­ dence at 9.30 at night. I· have seen the prisoners

and police on the road, and the police haYe been

doing the work of the prisoners. The police haYe no control over the prisoners, and the latter do

exactlv as thev like. 139.9. Q. You complain that the )Iagistrate's

control over the prisoners and police is too lax?­ A. I am speaking of eighteen months ago. It was

then.

THOMAS BOYLAN

S\\''Orrn ancl examined, as under :-1400. Tlte Cltairman.-Your name?-A. Bovlan. Thomas

1401. Q. Your occupation?-A_. Cyanider. 1402. Q. How- long have you been on Wood­

lark ?-A. Five years . 1 403. Q. What matters do you wish to_ place

before the Commission ?- A. The d'eputat10n of ,rhich I am a memcer was requested to draw the

attention of the Commission to the advisabilitv of sending a prospecting and explo:ing pa_rty, accom­ panie d by a geologis~, t_hrcugh 1\ e,~, Gmnea. The chief reason i s that 1t 1s a very d1fficult matter to

prospect .:\"ew Guinea by men ,rith small means. Indications of mineral b elts of country '\ould be evide~t to a geologist. It \\·ould not be intended

to confine the work of the 1Jarty to the unexplored portion of the country, b:.1t preference would be ,riven to those parts. 0 1404. Q. Are you hope ful as _to the future of

Papua from a mining standpomt ?-A. Yes; I think the possibUities are great. ~he country has h.ardly Leen run over. A great portion has not been gone -over bv white man yet.

1405., Q. · Have any reefs heen found 0:1 the

mainland?-A. _· one payable; but there 1s no

reason why the,· should not be found. In re~ar_d to the matter of the ::\Ioney Order Offic~e, the1e 1s one matter which has escap~d the notice of. t~e

two members of the d eputation. The Aclm1_m~ ~ t t. - d tl--e Chie f Postmaster Jeri us to belJe,e ra or an , · I I c that when Papua was in2orpor3:ted ,nt 1 t 1e . om-momrealth i.t "·ould not be cl1~rult

1

to_ ohtam. a

monev order office here, but until sue 1 time as rn~ corporation too,k place the,· l:ekl out no hope. 1406_ Q. _ -0 w th:-it it is mcnrporatccl. ha,'e th~ 1 d <> another re([uest for a rnonev orclC'1

p:p ~-~a The,· haYt' not had an opportunity. Tlw 0 • che · · Xl)l·e s d ot the 11w ting that n r<"ssel wis was , • "

capable of carrying cargo shm~ld rep_lace the M err~e F.ugland. The reason for this mot10n_ :vas that 1t was considered a better business propos1t10n to have a ,·essel ,rhich could convey Gorernment stores to

the Gor ernment stations. and which "·ould pro­ babl · cost much less to work than the 111 errie

J:'11gla11d. I am lec.l to understand that the Merrie E'nglmzd can onh carr-r a few tons of Governm:nt stores, and that the remainder comes by tradmg -ressels. The following three resolutions were not

brought ~efore the meeting last ni~ht. but are made I),, the deputation then appornted : -(I) That

Woodl.ark Island have the same mail service as Port ::\Ioresbv and Samarai. (z) That all beats con­

rerinrr · mails should remain in the port at least

t\\:cnt~--fout hours. (3) That Woodlark Island

mails be made up at Cooktmrn, and not interfered with at Samarai. It is. desired th.a.t vessels should remain long enough in the harbour to give people a chance of replying to any letters that may be

received bv her. At the present time the mail

boat frequently leaves port before the people ~ec:ive the letters which are brought in her. Then 1t 1s. a

week to five weeks before we have an onportumtv to reply to our mail. We ma_de representations to the Administrator in regard to th1-s matter some time ago, and he informed us that upon a renewal

of the mail contract it would be attended to. At

th.at time we requested that the boat should remain in port thirty-si~ hoUI'S. Since making that appli­ cation the mail contract has been renewed, and the running of the vessels altered, yet we find that thev

remain no longer in port than_ hitherto. We asked that the mails for Woodlark be mc1-de up in Cook­ town, and not opened in Samarai. The reason

for that reriuest is that letters _ and papers are

sometimes lost or mislaid, and they must have re­ mained at Samarai, or have been despatched- to other parts of New Guinea, and w~ have everv

reason for believing that delay has occurred through mails being sorted in Samarai. I 407 . Q. I take it that you mean that throug~

the laxness of ,the postal arrangements at Samara1 you wish the danger of delay or Joss of mails

a,·erted by having a bag made up at Cookto\vn, and not opened until it reaches Wood lark ?-A. Yes, and similarlv mails made un here for Cooktown should rema1n intact until they readi' that port.

Thev should not be sorted again a.t Samarai. 1408. Q. You do not appear to have much con­ fidence in the post-office at Samarai ?-A. We

have reason for a want of confider_ce. Another matter that was brought· before the meeting and adopted by .them ,ras that it was considered ad­ visable that a white interpreter should be appointed and employed when ,vhite men are brought before the courts of Kew Guinea. The reason of this

request is that nati \·e interpreters are considered unreliable, and that a "·bite man's property and libert\·-and possibly his life-is dependent upon the interpreter, and \\'hen natives evidence is given through a native i.t Jeaws great doub_t as to justice being obtained.

J 409. lllr. H erbert.-Would not the necessity for

a white interpreter onlv arise in questions where a natiYe i, one of the litigants?- : 1. Yes, either as a

plaintiff or defendant. 1 .+, o. Q. Is it at pr,esent possible to obtain a

whitt· interpreter for a I l the natiYe languages

spoken .1. I unclerst2ncl that if indu ement were offered a ,Yhite interpret.er could be obtained. r .p 1 ,. (). Do , ou knm\· an inteiriprert r to-day

\rlK} could sp ak all tlw languages spoken by all

the imported l:ns hf' rc? .1. It ,rnulcl be impos­

sible to ol)tain a man to speal· all the Janguarres, !mt T k-no, · a 111 ~ 111 "ho can speak many of them.

Thomas Boylan, 6th Oct., 1906.

56

q.12. Q. In such a case, it \\"ould be nee ssary

to obtain eYidence through a natiYe interpreter?­ A .. I think if inducement \\"ere offered, white men \YOuld learn the languages. 1413. Q. At the present time, such a proposal

as you put fomard ,rould be impo sible ?-A. Y s. I would also like to refer to the position of Pro­

tector of _ ~ atives. in New Guinea. At a meeting

held in Kulamadau some months a~o, I was askecl to ,uite to the Administratot and Mr. Atlee Hunt that it was desirable to have a person other than

the ::\Iagistrate as a protector of natives. It was

not considered advisabLe to have a man a:et as. pro­ secutor in a case, and also sit in iudgment in the

same case. The reply I received from the Ad­

ministrator ,ms that the proposal could not te

entertained. Mr. Atlee Hunt suppli.ed more in­ formation on the subject. I suggest that a white

police constable should act as. Protector of N abve . This was not one of the matters dealt ,,,:th at the

meeting last night.· r 414. Tlte C ltairma1t.- Are you satisfied gene- _ rallv \Yith the the adrninisfration as it affects the mining industry ?- A. While there is no evidence to show that the administration is in any wav detri­ mental to miners, I think there is ample proof that

it is not svmpathetic. We have frequentlv waited upon the Administrator here and laid complaints be­ fore bim, and in nearly every c.ase- fie has declined to entertain the proposal, and in manv cases his pro­

mises remain unfulfilled. Last J ulv twelve months a deputation waited upon him, and, among other thir:gs, requested that a road should be constructed from Kulamadau to the Saltwater Creek, so that pedestrians could travel without encountering the

danger of travelling along the trarnline. The Ar1-ministrator recognised that there should be another footp.ath, and informed the deputatioe that it would Le constructed. It has never been done.

r ,.p _s. Q. Do you consider that the present track is reallv dangerous?-A. Yes. Trucks "frenuent1y run away, and r~ce down The track at 20 miles an hour, ancl it would be a real danger t0 children

and others coming up the track. That track is the on h· means of cammunica.tion we have ·with S;:t 1t water. At the same time, he was asked to take

measures to have the bar at the mouth of the creek 'dredged. He also promised that would be attenoe

that n0w in view of the prospect of having n line

1 aid down there. r 416. Q. Then, in your opinion. the Adminis-trator has not doc.e everything in his po,Yer to help on .mining ?-A. That is mv opinion. In hjs last

Year's report he has not credited Woodlark with the position it holds as the chief gold-producing field in Papua. On page q of that Report, in speakir:g of the Northern Division, and the increased expendi­ ture there, he savs, "Against this expenditure. ho\\·­

ever, must be set the fact that the bulk of gold , -on in the Possession comes from this Division.'' Or. page 7.71 of St~tement of Exports, &c., the value of J?;Old or concentrates is shown at £.A.052 2s . 9d. for 200 tons 19 cwt. r qr. 4 lbs. The gol

was 14,930 ozs. 9 dwt. ro grs .. y.alued at _ _ -(5r .670 T7 . 7d., making a tota1 of .:f.55,7u as. 4d. That

,ms the total export of gold from New Guinea. ;rnrl he states the bulk comes from tbe _ rorthem DiYi­ si.on. Or. page 58, the Gold Warden at Woodlark Ishnd states that the total for the Year ,ms q.68~ ozs. r '\ dwt. r gr., valued at £3r. 760 rs. rorl.. T

wish to draw attention that .morE' 1han onP-h:i 1 f nf th.P aol

OllE" snLiE":--t ,YherP iniusfirP l1n.s he-en clnnP, hut tlwr.:,

is n lark of . ymp:-i.thy with th<' mining popubtion.

TH IEL SON

,ras sworn ancl xamin u, as follow :-I4I7. The C ltairman. --What is your name ?--A. John Gus th K elssor.. r..p8. Q. And y0ur occupation ?-A. Store-

keeper. r 419 . Q. How long have you been in ~<::~v

Guinea ?-A. Fifteen years. r 420. Q. You have, I understrind, been ;)_ s.ailor i' -A. Yes. 1421. Q. How close to the mamland of Wood-]ark could ships lie ir. ~afety ?-A. Ships o"f any tonn.tge can come right to the small island, aboul a ·half-a-mile. a,vay, where ,re suggest the tra.rpline should start fr0m. Alongside the wharf it woul_d be not less than five fathums, and not less than seven fathoms at the anchorage. There would be r:o difficulty in getting in from the open sea. 1422. Q. How far would that landing be from K.ubmadau ?-A. I should say 3 miles by tram line. 142.1. Q. Now take the proposed Government tram line. How far off would vessels have to lie to lighter iD from that place ?-A. Two mi1es, say, for a vessel about the size of the Moresby. The chan­nel is too narrow and 1ntricate 'for big- vessels to come in, as they could r.ot turn. ,vrLLIAM TROTTER ,vas sworn and exan1ined, as follows:-r 424. Tlte Cltairman.--What is y0ur name?-A. William Trotter. 1425. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. ?\Iiner. 1426. Q. How. Jong have you been in Kew Guinea ?-A. About twelve years, and about tee. or eleven years of that time in Woodlark. r 427. Q. As a miner, do you consiuer that the preseut Administration is sympathetic to the miners? -A. No. r ~ iz8. Q. Can you give any reason for your opic.ion ?-A. In this countrv the Gm·ernment should try in eYery way to as;ist the miner. The mi.ners are the pioneers in almost al] places in Aus­tralia, and thev wish to be pioneers in this countn·. They have developed this country as far as it has been developed, and the revec.ue will show that. If the Administrator wished to push this plare ahead he would assist it in every way he possibly could. At present he has not tried to. He has not tried to assist us on the mainland. 1en have gone over there and arried their Jiyes ic. their O\rn hands. They either have to sheet and defend themsel\"es, and be brought up for murder, or be murderP.rl.. They have to oaY exorbitant prices for their food-­+.S for ·a hag of flour, £5 for a. bag of rice, and 2s. 9d. or :~s. for a 1-lb. tin of meat. It is cliffi­rult to get labour, and some underhand ,rnrk is g0-ing on to ir.duce the natives to desert, and there is no redress. You can report the matter to a half-a­

57 T. A. Burnett, 6th Qot., 1906.

we. had made repeated applications to the Warden to improve the roads for the benefit of the natives, so that they would meet with no mishc1:p in carrying goods, but we were always put off with the excuse

that he could not do it unless he applied to Head­ quarters. When Ca.ptain Barton came here with Mr. Atlee.H~nt, we brought the matter before him, ar.d he ~aid he would give the Warden instructions

to have 1t done, and it has heen done in a manner. The Resident l\fagistrate should haYe more autho­ ritv. Native prisoners are brought out on the roac1, and thev have as good a time as the policemen.

They have also a good ti111e ir:., the gaol. 14.3r. Q. Is the Commission to take it th.at you

believe a more progressive policy should be adopted to push the mining industry along ?-A. Yes. 14-32. Q. Do you think it would be a good thing for the Government to undertake the transport in the Northern Division and on the mainland gene­

rally ?-A. The Government should take it over. I advocated that eight years ago. It would be more satisfactcry to everybody. I believe that the Go­ vernment should control the labour market in _Jew

Guinea, and that would include the recruiting.

THOMAS ARTHUR BURNETT wJs sworn a.n

1434. Q. What are you ?-A. I am a prospect­ ing miner at present. 1435. Q. How long ha,\· e you Geen in this coun­ try: ?-A. Close on three years .

1436. (Z: I understand that you haYe a matter

that you wish to put before the Commission?­ A. I arrived at Kulamadau anchorage on the 2nJ October, and going ashO're at the Government Sta­ tion, Bonagai, I receiv,e d unofficial information that

I would be arrested if I went to Samarai. ! heard

nothing further u~1til the day before yesterday, Thursday, the 4th, when on going to Bonagai, I was arrested on a warr.ant for an alleged offence of having fraudulently altered a dof:ument reported

to be a labour agreement. Whilst I was at Maga.­ Yarn, Bartle Dav, North-East Coast, I ,ms one of a prospecting p~rty who entered tba.t part of New Guinea, and the majority of us were entirely de­

pendent on local labour. I had ten months pre­

vim.1s experience . at Bartle Bay, and knew . I could get local labour there. The day after I was

arrested a.t Bonagai I ,ms formally brought before the Warden or Assistant Magistrate, and form a 11 y remanded to Samarai awaiting the .Merrie Hngland to ta.ke me there. That was at ten o'cl o:k in 1.he

morning. About a quarter to eleven I ,ms recalled to the office, and a letter was read to me, which had arrived from :.1r. Campbell, the R esident :.Iagis­ trate at Sa.marai, notifying Mr. Gill that the

warrant on which I had been arrested had been

cancelled. I ,vas then told I was free.

1437. illr. Herbert.-Whose warrant ,ras it upon which YOU were arrested ?-A. Mr. Turner's, the A.R.1( at Samarai. 1438. Q. Did you get bail ?-A. ~o.

1439. Q. Where did you spend the intervening night ?--A. At Bonagai. 1440. Q. Where?-A. In the cell , among the

native prisoners. 1441. Q. You say you have been in ~ew Guinea three years. During that time have you been in

Samarai ?- A. Upon several cx;:cas,ions. The longest time r was there nt one time was for four months.

1442. Q. Are you fairly ,rell knom1 in Samarai? -A. All the residents know me. 1443. Q. Are you kno,y·n to ~Ir. Turner, the

_-\. .R.:.l. ?-A. Yes, personally.

14-1-4. Q. Ha Ye you eYer ha

1445. Q. Was there any reason given in the

letter which \"OU heard read for the cancellation of HK· \\"arrant ?:_/I. In the portion that was read to me there was no reason giYen, only that the warrant ,ras cancelled. I belie,·e there ,ras something to

the effect that he trusted that the warrant had not Leen executed. r 446. Q. Have you any kn°'de

cbarge was standing over then . . I 447 . 0. Are the members of .-our prospecting

party in Woodfark at the present time ?-A. No. r 448. Q. Who swore the information which lerl to this warrant being issued ?-A. It was taken on the affirmation of so:ne natives, I believe. The

names of three natives are attached to the warrant. r 449. Q. How did you plead when you were

i>rought liefore the 1Jagistrate ?--A. I pleaded not guilty. I am en ti rely innocent of the charge.

HENRY E. FORD

was s,rnrn and examined, as follows:-1450. The Cltairman.-What is· your na.me ?­ A. Henry E. Ford.

145 r. Q. Wh;it is your o: cupation ?-A. Mining leaseholu er. 1452. Q. How long haYe you Leen in Woodlark? -A. Se\'en years.

1453. Q. I understand you have a matter you

,rish to place before the Commission dealing ,rith the Intestate Estates Department ?-A. Yes. I

have all the communications which haYe passed. They speak for themseh·es. I think there is onlr one paper missing. ·

1454. Mr. Herbert.-You were legatee under the \Yill of E. J. Weeks, decbsed, \Yh o• died on what elate ?-A. Some day in September, 1901. 1455. Q. Did you haYe the will ?-A. No. It

\Yas taken bv him to Samarai. The Warden showed it to me, and be sent it back again, and I after­

\\"ards received it from the Curator. 1456. Q. Have you received the proceeds from the sale of the effects of the deceased, or any pro­ pertr of the deceased ?-A. The property of the· deceased and also some of the proceeds.

1457. Q. Have you received afl the property left bv deceased ?-A. :\"o. - r 458. Q. There is still same sum to be accounted. for ?-A. Yes.

1459. Q. What is it ?-A. A fi, ·e or six years'

diary of the deceased. That js the most important item of all, or I consiaered it as such. Previous

t c, his leaving here, he asked me in case of any­

thing happening to him tbat this diary with a photo. and certain books should be forwarded to a rela­ ti\·e or intimate friend of his in SYdne,·. That wa:-. in the event of his dying on tbe I lan-d, but a few

days before he left he said he would t ake those

things with him, but if anything happened on his way dmrn south I ,Yas to get them and forward

them on. He died at Samarai 011 hi s wax down

south. I ba\'e not been able to get the diar\' or

bcoks or photo., and tb.o..t has c..ius.ecJ all the cor­ responqenc .

H . E. Ford, 6th Oct., l!l06.

1460. Q. Do you know whether those were in

hi po es ion at the time of his death?-.4. _-o,

but he took them away from here.

146 r. Q. Has all tl1e rest of hi property that

you know of been accounted for ?- .4. 2\o. 1462. Q. What else ,ras there ?- A.. A fountain

pen, which cost 12s. 6c.l., a quantit\· of artificial

birds' eyes, and taxidermist tool , fossif re­

mains ,rhich ,rere found at Busai, and two or three nuggets of gold, which be had attached to the

watch chain. The watch chain ,ras accounted for I.Jut not the gold. '

1463. (J. Since the deoeased's death you haYe been in correspondence with various officers, among them the Curator, concerning the ~.ale of the pr(J­ perty ?-A.. Yes.

I 464. Q. Have mu been told by the officials that

there ,ras no will ?-A. I received ,rnrd that the,· know nothing auout the will and property. That was from Port ~Io res by, from the Curator, in July, 1902.

r1-65. Q. ArnJ "·hen was it that you first hearJ

that they b.ad the wil I, which had been mislaid in their office ?--t1. On the 18th June, 1905. r 466. Q. Ha,·e you been in correspondence with Port :\Ioresbv and ScJ.marai concerning the property of th~ deceasep ,rhich is still to be accounted for?-

A. Yes. ·

1467. Q. But >:ou are unable to get any satisfac­ tion ?- A. 1 can get no satisfaction. 1468. Q. Under the terms of the will this missing property is yours ?-A. Yes.

1469. Q. ·rn the letter of th~ 1st November, 1905. a small quantih· of gold is referred to. Did \'OU

get thcit ?-.4.. Yes. -

r +70. Q. Is it the gold that 1vas attached to the

chain ?- A. No. I have not seen. that. or receiYc

1472. lib. Jferbert.-You lrnow the chain arnl gold, and " ·ou]d know it again ?-A. Yes. 1473. Q. Was there not onh· one parcel of speci-mens ?-A.. Yes.

147-1-. Q. And you havegotit?-A. Yes. 147 5. Q. At the foot of the ,rill there is a memo­ randum: "Ha,nded to me by the mate (Nel on) of the s.s. Adelaide on 25 / u/01, B.W.B., R.1!.,

12.12.01/' in red ink. Whose initials. are those?­ A. :\Ir. Bramell's. 1476.. ·Q. Was that memorandum written on the ,vill ,rhen it was sent to you bv the Curator in 1905? -A. Yes; and it was also on it when Mr. Bramell

showed it to me, and asked me if it was correct. 1-177. Q. Showing that it was in the hands of

the Government officials in 190 I ?..-A. Yes.

53

PAUL GREENTRE'E

was s,rorn and xamined, .as follows:-1483. Tlte Cltairnian.- What is your name ?-A. Paul Greentr .

1 _ 184. Q. And your occupation ?-A. Amalgama-tor. 1 +85. Q. How long ha Ye ·ou been on Woodlark?

- A .. A little more then fiye years.

r 486. Q. Ha ·e you anything you would like to put before the Commis ion ?-A. Yes, in regard to the treatment of natiYe prisQrlers. A bov here robs his employer, or commits some offence ·against his employer. We do not care to chastise the boy our­

seh·e:;, on ,accpunt of the Ja,rs gm·erning that sort of thing, µut 'Ornmunicate \\'ith the ~Iagistrate, and la)· a charge against the boy. Perhaps the :\Iagis­ trate ,rill sentence him to a. term of imprisonment,

and the ho · ,goes to prison. He is µlaced in charge of natiYe police, and given some little employment about the place .. such as pulling grass or a little

,,·ork on the road. Repeatedh· on passing from here to salt ,rater I ha.Ye seen those 0,risoners sitting dmn1 on the road smo~ing, and fairly enjoying tbem­ seh·es. more so than they would ha,·e if they had

L>e~n at their \\'Ork, and. the n olice UO\"S doing tlw

" ·ork of the prisoners. It is no punishment sending a boy to prison, and the employer loses the use of hi5 boy. I think.it \Ypuld be better if the Magistrate h::i.cl more power tQ inflict punishment on the boys,

and fine them. We asked to have certain roads re­ riaired. Thev are ven· bad in wet weather. The

earliest time \\·e could rret prison labour to repair the road ,ras 10 or r r o'clock. and thev left at four. I understand the,· should work eight hours. ,vhite supervision is required.

1 -18;. Q. Do YOU say that the prisoners ,rere sit-ting do\\·n smoking while the police who were their guard were doing their "·ork ?-A. Yes. r 488. Q. Then, in your opinion, sending a boy

to gaol under existing conrlitions is giving that bo,· a pleasant holiday?- .'! .. Yes. Each man in th~

mine has a certain number of boYs under him, but thev are signed on to the compan~-. The individual miner is responsible for the work of the natives,

and if a 00\' refuses to do his work e is not allowed to strike him. and justly so. You tell him you will complain to the mine i;nan.ager . who will inform the )Iagisti:'ate, and the bov "~ll laugh at the idea of

it. Some time it is so aggrasating that the miner

"·ill strike the bcv. and then he wi 11 have to pay n

fine, and l think ju~tly so; but it is very- aggravat· ing.

JOHN REILLY

1478. Q. And it was 1905 before they found it? -.4 .. Yes. When I could not hear anything definite was sworn and examined, ,:J.s follows:-from l)ort :\loresbY. I then ,ame to :\Ir. iiahone\· in Sam~uai, the proprietor of the hotel where the

man died. I received a letter from Mrs. MahoneY, statinrr that imrnediatelv on the d ,'.1th of Weeks h"

r 489. T lte C !tairman.-\Yhat is , our name ?-A.

::,

communicated ,rith :\Ir. Symons, who took posses-ion of eYerdhing. ·

r -~79· Q. ·Did she gi,-c a lit of th poses ion ? -

A. _ •o, sh"'" could not. There is another legatee. I kr.ow nothing offi,ia l. but 1 think tlwre- arr some arti,les " ·hi.ch . he has not receiYed. q8o. Q. Did you see the deceased before he l ft here ?-.'1. A few d:l\ s before he left lwre.

r-181. Q. Do ,ou know " ·hethcr lw dispo. eel of n.m· of thE' pro1wrt ,· you nwntioncd beforr. he l •ft? -.1. · I dn not know.

q82. (). o ,ou know that Jw did not? .4. I

h.a,·e yen reason to lwli w h,. did nnl. Lecau~, h,

sairl he intPn led takin(J' 1 is Jilt\ prop '1' with him.

John Reilly. ·

L.J90. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. liner. 149r. Q. How long have rnu been in Papua?­ A. Sin,e January. 1896. 1-19~. Q. Do YOU consider that th hould be

:1. liniit to the a.~ount of l:md "·hi h ould

ta.kr up undE'r the new Lancl Ordinan ?- A .. Y ..

1 193. (). What .are YC'ur rea. on. ? -A.. The ri h

lands of _ -ew Guinea, a·. for a. I haY n, in com­

pari. on "·ith the area of the rountn·. i. Yen- . mall. :-incl if allO\n' d to be taken up in Jar~ ,1r a. it w ulc.l soon l a 11 taken.

1 1Q 1· Q. ·what i. the grrat st area of arrricultural

brnl , ou think on man . hould holcl? A.. ~ bout

r .ooo ane. of rirh srruh Janel. That. hould bP suffi­ rit>nl for him. elf and hmih-. :rnd h . h nl,1 not ht> ll owecl to tal{Fi mor ' ,

59

Francis Gill, 6th Oct., 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVER ·MENT STATION, BoNAGAI.)

FRA CIS GILL

was further examined, as follows :-1495. The Cizairman.-You haYe some further matters you wish to place before us ?-A. Yes. Pro­ vision was made on the Estimates, 1904- 5, of £200

for the salary of a gaoler and OYerseer. On state­ ment of exp~nditure, page 49 of Report of 30th

June, 1905, 1t is shmn1 b\· the Treasurer that the

amount expended from that £200 during the finan­ cial year 1904-5 was £rr2 ros., and unexpe nd ed £87 ros. , making the total of £200. I arriYed

here in October, 1904. There was no gaoler or

overseer here when I arriYed, and one did not arri\· until 3rd June, 1905. That \\·as the next finan cial year, ·when Mr. Elliott arrived at Woodlark. 1

performe d the whole of the duties during that timif' as assistant gaoler without any remuneration, and therefore the sum of £1 u ros-. sho,Yn as expended was not expended.

1496. !/Ir. Herbe.rt.-Would the expenditure haxe gone through your hand had it been expended?­ A. No; it would ha.ve been paid direct to the man as sala.ry. There was no gaoler here until the

. vd July of the following year. Mr. Elliott, w·ho is now gaoler and overseer, during 1904-5 held the position of Assistant R e sident Magistrate in th e Northern Division, and on the 31st March, 190,c;. he

was gazetted to three months' leave of absence from his duties as A.R. M., !\' orthe rn Division. T.hat

" ·otdd expire on the 30th June, 1905, and he came 'here on the 3rd July. For the year r904-5 pro­

vision vYas made on the E;stimates for the nosition of Warden and A.RM., £27 5. My predecessor drC'w salarv at that rate· un to the time of mv ar­

rival in O~tober of that financial Year. 11~ the

Estimates and Reports for 1904-5 it is shown that £2.56 ros. 5d. was expended out of th'at f.275.

and unexpenderl. £18 9s. 7d. In the Government Gazette, 190.5, page 49, the Appropriation for

1905-6 for the same office of ~arden and Magis­ tr:1.te is put down at £27.s agam, but only -f?So was paid to me. There is no explanation during

that financial vear of how the balance was disposed of. In the · appropriations, Government' Gazett~, 6th August, 1906, there are E •stimates of Expendi­ ture fo~ 1906-7, and in that there ~s onlv _-f2c:.n

put down. with a footnote that there 1s a savmp-_ of ;-(25, buf there ,yas no foot note to th~t effect durmg the previous years. The_ revenue cl enved here from tbP. aold-fields alone

. 11d., i:, and 1905-6 £c:.86 6s. 2d. In th e month of

July, HJ06 , it was £62 rqs. 6d., .ond Au~ust f.r30 T6s. 6d. Th::i.t is only one port10n of tl1 e revenue I rollect. The estimate lw the Trea urer of tllP

revenue to be receiYe

l;st year was on the rori

the mine s far exceeds all exnend1ture ?- 1· Yf"s. 1498. Tlze Cllairman. ---Yom expenchturf' on roach seems exceedingly small ?- A. Yes . ~ ~ri 'f1 to keep my expenditure w!tl:i!1 the appropnat10n · allowed for roads in the Drv1s10n, but w?en I ex­

ceeded it there was a vote unexpended which I ha,(; no necessit\' for, "Vote for General Transport. :_J I , d the balance of that on roacls. anc1 ac1 -

an11 l .se -

1 f · \'ised thf" Administrator, '"ho a1>prow< o i t .. Q Diel \'OU point out to )Ollr SU]>l'IIU uf­ r'. 'I :~99,· r .. '\Joretoll the smal I amount of 111())1(.'V

i 1c er, ,, ). ' l 1 ? 1 W1 f

whkh vas Leing sp· nt n wac s i r ; J • 1c•Jl

_ 1 h P. his ·vi w. we1· th, t th . rhgg r wer t

make their own roads. He said, '' Let the dig-

gers make their own roads." . 1500. Q. Do you think that the teaching of Eng­ lish to natives should be made compulsory in all the mission and other schools in Papua ?-A. I do.

1501. Q. Do you consider that the learning of ~Iotu by officials is of any practical use in New

Guinea ?-A. It is of no general use. 1502. Q. How many dialects are spoken in your Di\-ision ?- A. From my own knowledge, I should say at least 30 to 40.

1503. Q. So consequently learning any one dia­ lect would be of very little use for general applica­ tion ?-A. It would not. 1 504. Q. And, in your opinion, the only sensible course ,rnuld be to teach the nati\-es English ?-A.

Yes: 1505. Q. Have the natiYes expresseq any desire to l earn English ?- A. Yes; I :have a boy here now who has been to a mission station, and he has ex­ pressed a desire to learn English. Boys have told me that t'~ey, 90 not wish the missionary to teach them missionary language, but to teach them the

English language. Boys at the mission station at J\ r t:1dau ,rnuld not go there because they would not

teach them anything but the missionary language, and they wanted to learn English. Mi~sionar_v language, I think, is an invention of the evil one . Owing to the boys refusing to go to the mission

station, they had in consequence to move it. On Sudest, which is only a small island, there are six languages. There are different dialects every IO or r 2 miles. I produce herewith a, letter from the

Acting Treasurer. dated the rst February, 1906, to the Assistant Resident Magistrate and War:den, South-Eastern Division, containing, .among other things, instructions in regard to the Suspense Ac­ count. Also a letter I received dated 20th Febru­

arv, 1906, asking me to suspend any action on

that letter for the present. l also produce letters

received on the 15th September, 1906, which is dated 24th August, 1906. I have also to state

that I was engaged under the condition th'at I would be appointed on probation for six months, at the end of which period the appointment would be con­ firmed, or othenvjse. I have now been here two

Years, and so far have received no confirmation from the Admini'.strator of my appointment. 1506. Mr. H erbert.-W:hat portion of his time does the R.M. spend at Woodlark ?-A. Very little.

He comes here generally when he require s to write an official report. He has to write a monthly re­ port to the Gov:e rnment Secretary, and 'he generally comes here to write it. Last year he was here

60 days out of the 365. 1507. Tlte C:ltairman.-When the R .M. is at Wood lark, does he ever sit on the bench ?-A. He has on only one occasion when I asked him.

1 508. Q. Does he eYer he lp you i11 the inquest

cases ?-A. Ko. 1509. Q. Has this ever caused you personal in­ c01wenience ?-/:I.. Certainl y, as I have been over­ ·worked.

1510. Q. Can you state any instance ?- A. In

the early part of 1905, there we re three mining acci­ dents o n tJ1e island, the first bL 'ing at Waikun,

about 4 ot 5 miles from Bona.gai Station. I

" ·alkecl out at 6 o'clock in the morning, an

cl a , after t11at another accident \Yas reported at

Busai. 6 milPs from Bonagai, about 5 o'clock in tht· n('n ing. l walk(~d 0ut to Tlusai. ancl the bodv \\'::\,S hrotight to Kulan,aclau Ho pita] a little after

c) p.rrl. When I got to Kulamadau on rn, return

fro111 Busa.i I r 'C l'iv

Fren<'is Gill. 6th Oct. , 1906.

60

at 5 o·clock at the Proprietary Co. 's mi~e. I

Yiewed that body that night, but was sc __ : xked

up that I had to sleep at the doctor's place. ·

r 5 r r. Q. Was Mr. Moreton at the residence

within r l miles of the scene of the accident at the

time ?-A. Yes. r5r2. Mr. Herbert.-In all these three cases you held inquests as a magistrate, and there were in­ quiries quite apart from your duties as Warden

under the Mining Act ?-A. Yes. 1513. Q. Does Mr. Moreton do any magisterial ,rnrk in connexion with Woodlark ?-A. Ko. I 5 r 3A. Q. Does he perform any magisterial duties in other parts of the Division ?-A. Yes, principally among tl1e natives.

1514. Q. Following the hearing of any case are depositions forwarded by him for filing in the office at Bonagai ?-A. No. r5r5. Q. Are records kept in any place of the

magisterial inquiries held by him in the DiYision outside "Bonagai ?-A. Not that I am aware of. r516. Q. Are his head-quarters ·at Bonagai? A. Yes; that is the chief office of the Di"ision,

where all the records are kept. r 5 I7. Q. Do you receive records of no kind from )Ir. Moreton ?-A. None whatever, except warrants of committal which I receive with the prisoners.

, 5 r 8. O.. Can you say how many of tbese you

k1\'c received during the present year ?-A. From the rst January, 1906, there have been six. 1519. Q. How many commitants were there alto­ gether this year to Bon~gai gaol ?-A. Thirty.

1520. Q. Who committed the other twenty-four? -A. I did. .

1521. The Cluzirman.-Is there anything else you wish to say ?-A. I have had certain difficulties with the Registrar of Births and Deaths at Port Moresby regarding certain alleged unnecessary delay on my part. One matter was regarding the death of

Thomas E. Roberts, who di'ed in the month of No­ vember, 1905. I was away when he died on a visit of inspection, and returned about the 2nd or 3rd of December, when I received the information of

his death. I registered the death in my office, took possession of his effects, and made inquiries reg:ud­ i-nrr his relatives and friends in Woodlark, and also b . • . ,note to Tasmania, ,vhere I believed his sister was. I onlv received a reolv from her last month. On

the 25th April, 1906, ·1 reported the death to tbe Rerristrar-General, and sent him aH tbe information I l~ad then obtained on the ordinary form. In

reply I received a letter from the Acting Registrar­ General, dated 14th May, 1906, in which he re­ ferred to the fact that information concerning the death of J ames r.~clntosh a·nd Isaac James Penny did not appear to have been sent on. I produce

herewith a recei·pt signed by the Registrar-General for information forwarded b,- me of the deatb of James McIntosh, dated the ·12th April, 1905) ac­ knowledging mv letter of the 18th March. By the same mail which I had sent McIntosh's information I also sent Penny's to the Registrar-General under cover, elated 30th March, but I hold no receipt for that. I baYe no doubt wbatewr that 1 sent it. I

replied to the Act;ng Registrar-General's. letter. of 14th r.fav, 1906, on the 21st _Tune last, rnfornung him that· these two latter informations had been sent to him as I had stated, and at the same time I

forwarded sufficient information in both cases. In regard to Penny's estate, I made every possible jn­ <1t1iry, and had a great deal of trouble jn obtaining information and obtaining his goods and chattels ;

and on the 26th April last I forwarded all pro1,crt: :rnrl claims I had receive

elated 11th April, 1906, from th Acting Curator, r.1r. Champion, in th foHowing terms: - " Est ah'

of Isaac J. Penny.-Having recci,·ed 110 an ,r r to my letter, _ -0. 206, regarding the abO\·e estate, J: ha,·e the honour to inform vou that the matter was placed before His Excellenc)· the Auministrator. His Excellency diTects me to inform you that, unle s you

reply punctually to official correspondence, he will haYe to rega.rd you us unfitted tc, r.nntinue performing the duties of your present office.'' 1522. i1lr. Herbert.-Did you make any reply to that Jetter ?-A. l\one. - I ma,· add that to recoYer

Penny's property involved no, less than three court cases at different times. 1523. Q. Was a man named Burnett arrested at

Bonagai on the 4th instant ?-A. Yes, on a warrant recefred from Samarai, si•gned by C. 0. Turner/ ~!\.. R. ~1. He was brought before me on the 5th

rnstant, and remanded to Samarai. 1524. Q. Was he subsequently set at liberty?-A. Yes. · ·

1525. Q. On "·hat grounds ?-A. On receipt of a. letter signed by A. Campbell, R. Th!. for Eastern Division, dated 3rd October, which I now produce, and which reads-" I have the honour to inform you warrant of apprehens:'On -o. r 57, and dated 3rc~ September, 1906, against Thomas A. Burnett, which has been forwarded to vou, is: now cancelled. Wi 11 you be good enough to · forward same to this office?''

1526. Q. When was_he liberated?-A. Yesterday morning, tbe 5th instant, immediatelv after I re­ cei,·ed the letter from Mr. Campbell. , 1527. Q. I notice that the warrant was issued on affirmation taken from a; native ?-A. Yes, and is a warrant in the first instance.

(Trm COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GovERN-1\.IENT STEAM YACHT "~lERRIE ENGLAND," AT

BoNAGAI.)

ALEXANDER ELLIOTT

was sworn and examined, .as follows:-1528. T!t.e C!wfrnzan.-Your name ?-A. Alex­ ander . Elliott. 1529. Q. What position do you occupy?-A. Head gaoler and overseer at Woodlark Island.

1530. Q. To-day it was stated in evidence that it wa.s quite a common thing to See prisoners sittinrr on the roadside .smoking while the police who wer~ guarding them ,rere doing their work. I would

like an answer from you to that assertion ?-A. Con­ sidering that there is only one warder and ten or

twelve prisoners, he could bardlv do the work for all those bO\'S. There mav ha Ye been one or t \\'O boys smoking. The warder had instructions from me that if the boys \\·ere good he could allow them to have a smoke. Tb~y are not med to heavy picks

all day, and I told him to let them have a smoke

at ro o'clock and 3 o'clock. Your informant miaht ha,·e se n them basing a1 smoke then, and probabh· the ,nucler ,rnulc.1 be levelling the road off as the,· Jo many a time. The boys capsize a box' of stuff,

and the " ·arder may haYe levelled it off while the prisoners ,-rere haYing their smoke. 1 53 r. Q. Do you consider that the methods

adopted _are a :·eal puni hment for pri ner ? -­

A. A pn oner 1 worked in Bonaaai Gaol from 7

'1 ' ,-, o co k to 1 2 o clock; they then haYe dinner and \\'Ork from 1 o'clo"k to 6 o' lock. r 532. (). It ha be n tatcrl that the bO\·, ha Ye

such a good time in gaol that when one of th ir

employer. t hr •at. ns to r<>port th m, and that th ,.

,rill get punislwd b) being sent to gaol, thev simr1:.

61 JI!. H . .Moreton,

8th Oct., 190(>.

laugh at h im, and sav they "\Yi ll ha" e a better time

in gaol. Do yo u co1;side; the\· t ake that v:ew of

prison ?--:1. ~ o, I do no t. 'rbe p risoners them­

selves could ans,Ye r that. 1533. l11r. f-1 erbert.- What hours does t he Prison Ordinance allow Y O U to work Drisoners ?-A. I do not think the re is ·any stated time. Eight hours are

a fair day ' s work. We haYe been pinche d here, as we have such a lot of road work to do, and haYe

l1ad to uti•lize the prisoners as much as possibl e . We sometimes work them from 7 o'clock to 6 o'clock , with one h our for dinner; sometime s " ·e allow them two hours f or dinne r. I some times knock them off in the middle of tbe da,·, so as not to le t them h aYc a touch of the sun. ·

J 534. T lte C ltairman.- Have YOU had a long ex­

perience with boys ?- A. Yes. I h a,·e wor}_{ed them since I h a ve bee n in New Guinea, and I think th look upon prison as a punishment. I think tb e pre­ sent tre atment in most cases is .se,·e re enough. I

am not aware o f boys coming more than once l ()

fsao].

(Trm

FOURTEENTH ·DAY.

:MONDAY, 8nr OCTOBER, 1906.

C OMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERKMENT STATION AT LosurA, KrnrwrNA.)

Present:

Colonel th2 Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. HERBERT,

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HONORABLE MATTHEW HENRY MORETON was svvorn and examine d, as follows: -1535. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name?­ A. Matthe w Henry Moreton.

r 536. Q. What position do you. ~~ld ?- A.

Resident Magistrate, South-Eastern Divis10n. 15 3 7. Q. How long have you bee n in the ser­

vice of the Government ?-A. Seve nteen years on :r 7th September last.

1538. Q. What proportion of your time do you spend at W oodlark ?- A. As short a time as pos­

sible. Abo ut three months in the year is the

ave rage. r 539. Q. What are you doing duri1;1g the re­

mainder of your time ?-A. Travellmg about

through the is.lands. . .

r 540. Q. Could you give the Commission the

extent of your travels ?-A. Last year I wa. travel­ ling 260 odd days. This year I have hardly_ been at Woodlark. Since the 1st July last, I have

bee n there about a fortnight. 1541. Q. In th,e case of a native bringing a

charge against a white mar~ , have you. foun~ any difficulty in ge~ tin(T other whit e men to give evidence . · . b sed ?- A Yes · the

agamst the wlnte man ace~ · · . ,

white men stick together agamst the n atives. J 542. Q. Do you . think that it :vo~ld be prac­

ticable to tax the natives who are w1thm the _sphe~e of Government influence ?- A. Yes j I thmk it

could be done. 1543. O. Would it have a good effect in pro-

. . dL., n1011g , the m ?- A.• Jt would, motmg rn ustry u after a time.

:r 544. Q. Do you conside r the sec urity which

t h<~ Gm·e rnment has gi,·en tbe natives ha; tended LJ make them more slothful than they were

o ~ig in ally ?-A .. It has, to a certain exten·t. 1545. Jlr. Okeden.- I s the natiY e generalh

truth ful "·hen giving evidence ?- A. They are mo; t unt ru thful. r 546. Q. Do they exaggerate ?- A. Yes. r 5..J-7. i1lr. Jl_erbert.- Would it be possible to

ha."'~ . :1. p rof ess1onal European interprete r in tbis Dins1on ?-A. There are so many dialects that one man could not master all of them from Rossel I s la nd to here.

.r5~- 8. Q. H ow many languages are there in ,·our Div1 s10n ?- A. There are four diffe rent lan(Tu;ges bu t they are divided into a large number ~f dia~ lects.

r 549· Q. Do you know anv white man who

could talk thos.e languages and dialects ?- A. No; not ,vithout the help of a native interpreter. .1 550. T!te Clt~irman.- Would it be a good

thrng. and rn the mterests of the Government if th e t e~d:mg of English were made compulsory in Mtss1on and other schools ?- A. I have th;ught that a long time. ·

1551. Q. With which D epartments at Port

::\J.or esb y do you have most of your correspondence? ·-A. The Government Secretary mostlv, also the Treasurer and the Chi,ef Government ·surveyor. 1

552. Q. Do you find your correspondence

promptly attended to by thos·e De partments ?- A. Yes. Sometimes in th e Treasury you do get ac­ know k:dgI?ents, but it is a long time before you get anyth1ng else.

~ r.553 .. Q. Are your relations with the Treasury

or a _sat1?factory character ?- A. I have so little to do with 1t. Tbe Acting Treasurer looks after the boats. and I ha:e. been writing very strongly about the way the Sazat has been repaired. She was up there 104- days. No one seems to have passed her.

There has not been time for me to get a reply to

my lie tte ~·· I have to live upon the boat uine

months m the year, and the way she was sent

back from Port Moresby was a disgrace to the De­ partment. 1 5 54· Q. Does the Treasury treat you with th,1: same courtesy as the Government Secretary's De­ partmP-nt does ?- A. I do not think so.

1

555: Q. Do you know of any reason for this? - A .. - o.

1556. l/.1r. Okeden. - In connexion with the re­ pairs to the boat, who have you written to ?- A.

The Government Secretary. r .5 57 · Q: Is • _not it a Treasury matter?­

A. YP.s j 1t was m the hands of the Treasurer.

J 558. Q. Then why did you write to the Go­

vernment Secretary ?--A. I wanted to make sure it " ·eint before Captain Barton. T hat was '.the

sures t "·a y. 1559. i-Jr. H erb ert. - How do you ac,::ount for t hat want of courtesy on the part of the Treasury ? -A. I cannot say. They seem to think they .are

the only ones, and we are nothing outs ide. Tbev are all important j we are nothing. •

J 560. T!t e C!tairman.-Y ou said that you com­

municated direct with the Government Secretary on a matter which reall y should l1aY e gone through tbe Treasury, because you thought it was more like I y in that way to go cefore _Captain Barton ?­ A . Yes j a nd be taken notice of.

• I 56 r. Q. Is th~ ~reas.l:r y in the habit 0f ignor­

rng your commumcatlons m some cases ?- A. They 8.ckno,dedge the receipt. I 56 2. Q. Do they forward your communications

to t he Administrator ?- A. T cio not know whether th y do or not. I suppose they do.

~r. H. Moreton, 8th Oct., HJ06.

1 563. Q. Then if th y J , "·b y ,end to the Go­

vernment 'erretary ?-A. I ,ranted to get it before Captain Barton a· · soon as po. sible, :rn

the offi : er in "·hose Dep:utment it ~V ::1$. r 564. Q. In that case, will the matter get at­

t enti on ?- A .. Yes. r 565. Q. How long has this unsatisfactory state of affairs in regard to the Trt2asury h een going on? - A. I think it was pretty well before Mr. Bal-

lantine went away. .

1566. Q. Has ~fr. Ballantine always treated

your requests with promptness ?-.4.. [ have never ha

nc>glect ?-A. No. 1 .568. Q. You said your boat had come back in a disrrraceful conditioe. Did you not consider that an instance ?--A. Yes, that is one case, most decidedly.

1 .569. llfr. H erbert.-Y ou said that the Treasury

Department seemed to think that they were r;very­ body, and the outsiders were nobody. Is that as­ sumption of superiority personal ?-A. I do not think so.

1570. Q. In th.at statement do you include the

Treasurer ?-A. It is different to what it was when Mr. Ballantine was at Port Moresb_ y. 1571. Q. Have the delays always occurred ?-A. No, I cannot say that. It w,ts about the boat I

objected to. I could st.and the rest. 1572. Mr. Okeden.-There must have been some­ thing in your mind to make you write to the Go­ verr.ment Secretary instead of through the Trea­

surer ?-A. It was my idea that that was the

quickest way to get to the GoYernor. 1573. Mr. Herbert.-You formed that opinion from past experience ?-A. Yes.

RAY ER LAMING BELLAMY

was sworn and examined, as follo,rs :-1574. T!te Cliairman.-What is your name ?-A. Rayner Laming Bellamy. 157 5. Q. What is your position ?-A. Assistant

Resident Magistrate here, and I also hold the ap­ pointment of Government Medical Officer. 1.576. Q. How long ha:ve you been in the Ser­ vice ?- A. Two years last month.

1577. Q. Do you think it would be practicable to tax the people ir. Yvur part of the Division ?-A. Yes. •

1578. Q. Are the people here at present indus-trious or slothful in their habits ?- A. They are very industrious. 1579. Q. Have the chie'fs any authority over

their people here ?- A. Those who make .any pre­ tence of sorcerv have. 1580. Q. D; you think it wpuld be possible to

collect the tax through those chiefs ?-A. In. the majority of cases, yes. 1581. Q. Would you advocate that being done, or c uld you make anv other suggestions ?- A. I

thir.k that would be the easier way. 1582. Q. Do you consider that English should be ~ade a. compulsory subject in mi sion schuols ?­ A .. Yes, certainly.

1583. Q. You .are GoYernment M dical Offi c r here ?- A. Yes. 1584. Q. What cases have you t? deal with ?-.4-. V nereal principally, and Jew Guinea sores.

1585. Q. Has yenereal a big hold on the popu­ latior. of th s islands ?- A. Yes, about 10 p r cent.

of the whol e popula.tion- m n, women, and

children.

62

1 586. Q. an YOU gire u any idea a ,rhen

th is disea,e first bowed it elf in the Trobriand ?­ /l. The olue. t men to whom I ha,·e spolen al out it

kne,r it wher. the\· were bors. 1 587. (). The11 ' it ,ro:ild 11ot be fair to blame the

present generation of " ·bite men for introducing it? - A. No.

r 588. Q. HaY you any theory as to the "·ay this

disease was fir st introduced in the Trobriands ?-A .. I ha,·e had 1,0 experi ence of the isb.nds between Kita va. and ~Jurua, but I think that that .has been the probable line ,r hich the disease has fol lowerl. The whalers used to call at the Laughlan Isbnds,

and it is probable that the disease came from there. From the L aughlans it would spread to ~Iurua, and the Kita.Ya people ,rnuld get it from ~Turn.1. r 589. Q. Are you holding the disease in check? - A. Distincth. A small percer.tage of the cases

die. .

1590. Q. What is your experience in r egard to

syphilis ?--il. I think it is decreasing. I beli eYe

that in Sir William MacGregor's time the popula­ tion of this group ,ras 20,000. It is now, I think,

about 10; 400. 1591. Q. Do you attribute this decrease to the

yenereal ?-A. Very la rgely, be~ause it not only affects the preser.t generation, but also the children. I know from the difficulty I have in finding cases that it is decreasing.

1592. lib. H erbert.--Does any contamination come from outside sources at the present date ?--A. X o, I ·do not think so. I .am referrir.g to the Tro-

briand Group. 1593. Tlte C!tafnnan.-Were you an officer in the Northern Division when a man named O ' Brien was arrested ?-A. I was.

1594. Q. Did you take ae.y part in his actual

arrest ?-A. l accompanied the Resident Magis­ trate, Mr. l\lonckhm. It would be between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoor.. O'Brien was lying down in his hut on the side cf the creek. He did not

hear us until we were right inside the hut. The

R. M. said, "I have a warrant for your arrest,

O ' Brien. '' H e said," All right. You need not haYe brought al 1 those black b----s. I will come

quietly. " We had eight or ter. police with us.

He was given time to put his boots on. The place where he was working was on the Two-Mile Creek from -the Y odda. There was other mining business to be done at the Yodda, and O ' Brien was brought on with us. There is r:o gaol at the Yodda, and

the R. )I. told me to tell him th.at he would be put

in irons, not as a punishment, but to prevent his

esc...!tpe. It was an open but he was put into. There ,ras no door to it. I wer.t to O ' Brien and told him

this, and he asked me to put them on, and not to

let the police do it, and I did so. The next day I

took him back to the station a.t Kokoda, where he was put in a separate cell in the gaol. H e was

slightly feverish, and I gave him 15 grains, of

quinine and a. glass of whisky. The man was ex­ hausted, which was the reason for my giving him the whisky. The police said to me that when they met O Brien, and they ,rere alone, he would aper.

the breech of his rifle as they passed him and put in a cartridge. That was before his arre t. On one

occa ion he came to Koko da Station on mining busi-ness. The corporal of the police was loading car­ riers with stores. O'Brien turned to me as we en­ tered the offic P and said, " I nearl Y had tho e black b---s of vour .. ' I a, ked him ,v.h,·, and h , aid,

" I cannot k~ep my har.d. off them.-,' The police n ver poke to him.- On th third morning after he

had been sentenced, whil he w.as in g:lOl I tmk

him a half-a ·e, and . aid h m;mld have to do a.

certain amount f work i,~ the bu. h. H was not

in iron th n. H e said, " If I work in the un you

63

will kill me." I told him there was no question

ot killing him at all, and th.at he was not expected to slave. He ,rnuld have a guard of two police,

and I cautioP.ed him not to make any attempt at

escaping. He said, '' What is the good of my try-ing to escape. I should be an outlaw."

1595. Q.. Were you at Kokoda when O'Brien

escaped ?-A. No. r 596. Q. Is that all you know in connexion with the O'Brien affair?-A. I saw the house at

Papangi, which it was alleged O'Brier. had burned before he was .arrested. The people there said he had burned it. I also saw the Euna man who said

O'Brien had fired ·with his rifle at him, and the

woman it was alleged he had raped. 1597. IW.r. Okeden.-Do you know if he was chair:ed at all ?-A. I did not see him chained. I

cannot say if he was chained the first night, as I

cli.d not see him. I believe he .made a complaint

about his. food, or, rather, some othe11s. did. He was fed from our store, and received an unopened tin of fish or meat every day. The only store ration he;

got was rice. The rest " ·as the same food as we

were eating, and came f rnm oiur _ own priv:1.te store. r 598. llfr. H erbert.- From the time be was

arrested until ·the time ,·ou left Kokoda, was

O'Brien tre:ited with anv ti'ndue severity ?- A. ~o severity at all. He was ·arrested on the ·16th April. On the. 17th he WJ.S taken to Kokoda, on the 18th he was tried, and on the 21st I left Kokoda.

1599. (2. Are you aware of any language or

;:iction on the paJ·t of the native police towards

O'Brien "·hich \YOuld tend to excite him ?- A. No, I lrnve never seen them act in that way towards

O'Brien or any other "·bite ma]).

FIFTEENTH DAY.

WEDNESDAY, IOTH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE iIETHODIST MIS­ SIONARY STATION AT BWAIDOGA, GOODENOUGH ISLAND.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M. L.iC. (Chairman); W. E. Parrt-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert, ·

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

REVEREND ANDREW BALLENTINE was sworn and examined, as follmYs : -r6oo. The Clzairman.-What is your name?­ A. Andrew Ballentine.

16o r. Q. What position do "?u yo1;1 ~old here? -A. iiissionary of the Methodist )hss10nary So-cietv. · N

16oz. Q. How long have you been rn 1 ew

Guinea ?- A. Two years an

like to place before the Comrrussi~m ?-A. I thmk a tax within reason upon the nati~es. would be a

good thing, and could easily b~ paid 1f steos were taken to develop the cocoanut 1?dus~ry. That ap­ pears to me to be the chief thing 3ust now. We

have an opinion that in man\' parts sugar plan­

tations could very profitably be started, but that

means capital. 16o4. Q. Do you recommend the tax from the

stand-point of the natives ?- A. Yes.

.tlov. A. BallontiM, 10th Oct., l!J05.

1605. Q. Does the Government enforce the Or· dinance in regard to planting cocoanuts very gener­ a I h· ?- A. I do not know w bat it is.

i:606. Q. Will you suggest that in the future

the natives should be compelled to pl:mt a certain numl:::er of cocoanuts ?-A. Yes, I certainly would. r 607. Q. If that were done, ,rnulcl they have

any difficulty in paying a reason:ible tax ?-A. No. 1608. Q. Should that tax be in money or in

kind ?- A. It ,rnuld be more comeniel'lt for the

nati\·es to pay it in kind.

r 609. Q. What would be a fair amount for this ta:,;: for the natives under the sphere of Govern­ ment ?-A. I should think anything up to 2s. per head. Here the people simply l1aYe nc,thing at all except the few cocoanuts.

16m. Q. And would you suggest a sliding scale, that is, making them pay in proportion to what

they could pay' ?-A. I would suggest that, but I se:: a great difficulty in the ,my of adjusting the

sliding scale. You would have to adjust it in ac­

cordance with the fruitfulness of the country. You could not do it by asking the natives, they are such frightful liars. · 161 r. i11r. 0 keden.-How long has this station

been established ?-A. About nine years. 1612. Q. Have the natives any gardens of sweet potatoes and such things here ?-A. They have, Gut they grow just enough for tbemsel ves.

1613. Q. Has any attempt been made around here to induce the natives to plant ?-A. No. 1614. Q. Is there a large popul.ation here?-A. Fairly la.rge. Within about 15 miles there are

about two or three villages, from which there is an attendance at the services on Sundays of about 1,400. 1615. Q .. And they just grow enough to live on?­ A. Yes.

1616. Q. Do you find them rather Iazy?-A.

There are all different communities, and you cannot form an opinion of one village from what you know of another. 1617. Q. Is the land around here fertile?-A. Yes; sweet potatoes do fairly ,rell. I do not know

about yams. 1618. T!te Cltairman.-If the natives choose do you consider they could increase their area of 'cul­ tivation to provide for themselves, and also pay a

reasonable tax ?-r1. Yes, I think so. 1619. Q. Do you teach the natives English in your schools ?- A. Yes. We took ia vote jn our

Synod the day before yesterday on the advisability of teaching English, and the decision was unani­ mously for it. 1620. Q. So that in future in all the Methodist

~Iis1sion Stations English will be taught ?-A. Yes. We have made Dobuan the liternry language for the district, but each circuit will have a different lan­ guage. At the Central Training Institute Dobuan

will be the language used. We felt it was our duty to teach English, and one of the reasons was that they were British subjects. With regard to native taxation, I would like to s.ay that, while I cannot

hold myself responsible, still I feel that the senti­ ments I have expressed are those of the rest of my l\fethodist brethreJ1.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE STATION OF THE ANGLICAN MISSION, DOGURA, BARTLE BAY.)

THE REVERE D COPLAND KING was sworn and examined, as follows: -r62r. The Clwirma11.- What is your name?-A. Copland King.

Re"- Coplat1

64

1622. Q. What position clo you hold ?-A. I am a clerg) man of the Church of England, in the diocese of _, w Guinea, attached to the General Synod o1 Australia.

1623. <2. How long have you been 111 Kew

Guinea ?--.4 .. Fifteen years. 1624. Q. Haye you been in the ~orthern Divi-ion ?- A .. Yes, for four years.

1625. Q. Have you been on the gold-fields there? - A. l have taken trips to the Gira and Aikora fields. 16 2 6. Q. Speaking generall v, how do you think the boys are treated by the diggers oin the gol

li e lds ?- A. So far as I have seen, they are treated

fairl v ,vell. 1627. Q. Would it be a good thing for the Go­

ve rnment to take over the transport in the Northern Di\'ision ?-A. Tb.at is rather a new idea to me.

The general system is for the men to keep a certain number of bqys, and to employ them for carrying, if necess::i.ry, and for working their claims. Tb<; two kinds of working are interdependent.

1628. Q. Are there ,'.ll1Y private firms carrying":-> - :1. Yes; Whitten Brothers and Clunas apd Clark The latter work the Yodda field, :ind the Whittens work both. They do a certain amount of carrying,

but the diggers find it more profitable to employ

their own boys. The firms charge a higher price

for carrying th.an the diggers would pay as wages to thC' boys. A bag of rice at Samarai costs 5s. to 6s. ; at the store at Tamata 12s. ; on the Aikora field,

£2 2s., if the storekeeper sends it out. 1629. Q. Suppose that the diggers on those fields knew th::i.t the Government ·would take up all their stuff at a reasonable rate, cheaper than the rate

clurged by the private firms, ,rnuld they not then utilize their boys for mining rather than in carry­ i,ng ?- A .. Yes; but I have hear

It would be a good idea if thev could get their

stores without p1ying the l::i.rgelv increased cost. 1630. J!r. Herbert.- ls the incrnased cost at the fi~l d ,rnrrante

No. 16:~1. Q. l'hen if the Government undertook the carrying at a reasonable cost for the storekeeper, the storekeeper would not have the excuse for put­

ting on the greatly increased orice. It would then be a great advantage to the miner, as he would get goods at a greatly decreased cost ?-A. Yes. 1632. Q. Then transport under Government

snµen•ision would be a benefit to the miner?- A. Y ps, under present circumstances. 163_,. Q. Would the native benefit by the change? -A. Yes, I think so.

1634. Q. Are you in favour of that change for

those reasons ?-A. Yes. 163_s. The Cltainnan.- Do you think it would he a good thing for · the Government to take _ over the whole of the recruiting in Jew Guinea ?-A.

Yes. I think so, provided it did not interfere with men employing Jabour directlv for themse~ves, and was applied only to those cases where middlemen are now employed.

1636. Q. Would it be a proper thing to send a

medical man \to the Torthem iDivision ?-A. It would he verv desirable indeed. They will never know what the disease is that the boys. on the field r1ie of until thev do.

1637. Q. Is the :mortality la.rgie ?- A. Xot so

1 argC' as it used to be. The diseas seems to be

endemic in <'ertain camps. 1 638. 0. What are your views as to taxing th

nativrs who are under Government control at the pre. ent time ?- A. I do not see anv principle

against the id<:>a. The taxation would have to be ,·ery partial. Of course, the idea of natives, being

under Gm·ernment control is rather an indefinite one. I can point to Yillages inland from here where GO\·e rnment offic ers haYe ne\·er been. Perhaps the constable catche a prisoner \Yho is sent to gaol,

and he is afterwards returned to his Yillage. They are under control to rhis extent : th.at they have

learned to li\·e at pe a·ce instead of \\·ar. Gener­

ally. I think that within a reasonable radius of anv Go\'ernment station there is a considerable amoun't of protection granted. 1639. Q. In the event of a tax being imposed,

\\·hat form should it take ?- A .. I cannot see that

the natives can make any cash payment. At present the food .that they gro\\', if sold at all, is sold at

such a small rate compared to its value to him

that he is not in a position to get a monetary equi­

nl~nt f~r i~. The islands are the great yam pro­

ducrng d1stnct, and they sell a great deal of yams to traders and others j but the standard price is

at the rate of 1d. per basket of 20 lbs., and that

is generally paid in tobacco. Payment in kind

suggests an irregular sort of system. Supposing the }fogistrate comes round in a launch, he buys food from the nati,·es at an advanced P.rice on

wh~t the l~al_ p eople can afford to give- either

native or missionary. It is likely that villagers

are told to supply this food as a part of their

duty to the Government. 1640. Q. Have you ever thought of the idea of the natives being made to pl:int a certain amount of extra ground ?-A.. There would be a great thing in

that. 1641. Q. And the produce from that would be­ long to the Government as a tax ?- A. Tha.t would l~e much more easily raised. Yams and taro do

not keep, but cocoanuts would be a good idea,

as thev could be turned into copra. The Govern­ ment could charge a tax of so many cocoa.nuts a head. Of course, planting cocoanuts does not

necessitate much work, but it would give the natives a certain ,sense of responsibilitv. It would be a

step in the right direction. ,

1642. Q. Have you any vie,YS in regard to forced labour ?- A .. There is a certain amount of forced

labour alrea d ,. as regards carriers required bv the Government, but it is very unequally distributed. although the GoYernment officers do· as much as p03sible to distribute it. In the Northern Division the people v,;ho live near the Government are alwavs

being called upon to carry. They axe paid for {t, but I sometimes think their gardens suffer. 1643. Q. I meaITTt forced bbour instead of a tax? ---il.. The on),· objection I see at present is that it

would necessitate the Go-rernment sendin.cr around a_nd recruitin~ for themselves, and, consid;ring the time the natives would bf~ required to work, it

':oul? hardly pa_v_ for the expense of getting them. I< or rnstance, nat1Yes from here would be taken to

Samarai to \\·ork on a plantation there, and it

would appear to them as though they were being taken to gaol, and also be a considerable expense to the Gm·ernment to take them down. J 644. (). Does the Anglican Mission teach the

E~gl~sh language in its schools ?- A. Yes, in its

prmc1pal schools, but not in some of the village

schools. I cannot ans,rer for the schools ·singly. 1645. Q. Do you believe the principle to be a

~ound one ?- A. If i.t tau~ht as a. econdary sub­

JCCt, yes. The teachrng gn-en to the children as a mean of education to open their minds must be

give~ in their own language. To appreciate the

bles, rngs of _ civilization it mu t be in Engl i h; but not .many of them would appreciate Engli. h litera­ ture. They think better in th ir own language.

1646. Q. Would teaching ~nglish help th Go­ yernment in their control of the n;itive population? - A. Ye , I think it would more than by the u e of

65 A.. L. Joubert,

12th Oct. , 1906.

the policeman's language, which is hybrid Motuan. The police are taken to Port Moresby to learn it,

and are then distributed around the different places to teach it. I spoke to the A.R.)l. about speak­

ing to the natiYe teacher in English, but he said he could not, because he did not tallt English to his

own police. 16-1-7. Q. Is there ::my other matter you wish to place before us ?-A. The Bishop has stated in his Annual Report that the GoYernment have not

taken any steps to put half-caste children under Government control. Some of them are the sons of Englishmen, and, therefore, cannot be mandated as the natives are.

1648. Mr. Herbert.-Would the introduction of a settled European population into the country be beneficial or otherwise to the natives ?-A. I think it would be decidedly beneficial.

1649. Tlic Clz·airmcm.-Is there anything fur­ ther ?-A. In regard to the s\·stem which the Go­ vernment have adopted respecting venereal disease, there are two or three hospitals in which natives are treated and the Government contrive to exercise

some c~ntrol over the natives who· have contracted the disease; but the people who brought it, being Europeans, are difficult to get hold ~£. ls it worth so much trouble trying to cure the disease when the source· is untouched?

1650. Q. Do you consider t~at th~ w?ite men

at present in Papua are spreadmg this disease?­ A. I think it has been shown that the traders of

South European origin in the Trobriands have a good deal to do with it. I know of i?olated cases

of other Europeans ; but I do not mmd so ~uch

about them, as they are isolafed cases. The ~ishop was interviewed in Melbourne last year, and m the Review of Reviews he said' that all white men c?m­ ing into New Guinea should be subject to examina­

tion. I think Captain Barton has sugg~sted an

ordinance that any man found to be suff enng fro_m the disease should be detained and cured of it.

T his, I think, should meet the case. .. Of course,

the Bishop holds a much stronger opimon.

SIXTEENTH DAY.

FRJDAY, I2TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE G~VERNMENT STEAM y ACHT' " MERRIE ENGLAND, AT BUNA BAY.) Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); w. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. H erbert,

Mr. E. Harris' Secretary to the Commission.

ALLAN LESLIE JOUBE'RT

was sworn and examined, as follows:-what is your name ?­ r65 r. The Chairman.- . A. Allan Leslie Joubert. . f

r652. Q. Your occupation ?-A. Manager o a

store at Buna Bay. . been in the Nor-

1653. Q. How long have you 1

.

D . . . ? A Six years and a half, fol O\\ - them 1vision .- · . k bber 1ng various occ1:1p.ations, such as store ·eeper, ru .

getting, aQndymmu~g~ve some matters you wish to 1654. . OU . • ? l ·u . egarr1

. 1 b f the Comm1ss10n · - ~ · 1. es, rn r

p ache e ore l . . ador·ted in c:onnexion with the ap-

to .t e prtoc~l ~{?r Li;tle to tl~e Legislative Council. pomtmen o ·

F.14262.-E

I produce copy of the letter from the R . M. of t he

_ Torthern DiYision to the miners on the Yodda gold ­ field, dated the 30th l\lay, 1906, which I wish to

put in. The miners were requested by l\lr. Monck­ ton to come in and nominate a person to represent them in the Leg is la ti ve . Council. Only the assessors came in res_!X)nse to the invitation.

1 6 5 5. Q. Did Mr. Monckton send one of these

ktters to ea.ch assessor ?-A. Yes. 1656. Q. And it was in response to t hose letters that the assessors came in ?-A. Yes . 1657. Q. Where was the meeting held?- A .. At the Ioma Go-rernment Station, on the T amata

Creek. I moduce the minutes of the meeting of

th~ assessoi·s held at T8mata on l\Ionday, u th

June: I906. 1658. Q. Who took those minutes ?- A . Mr.

O'Toole. I also have copies of the minutes of the Y odd a meeting held on the .5th July, but these

h~1 ve not been certified to by any one. They are,

hO\vever, correct, and can be proved. I wish to

point out that I know of nobcidy having any per­ sonal objection to :Mr. Little, but they certainl y do object to the manner in which he was appointed. The first I or any one else heard of t he ap point­

ment was seeing it in Hansard, and I may mention that the Hansard was printed previous t o the meet­ inc, being held on the Yodda. I consider there is

sufficient representation on the Legislative Council without others being appointed from an official ~ource. 1659. Q. Do you know that the appointment was in accordance with the Constitution ?- A . I have

not seen a copy of the Act. What was the neces­ sity for calling these meetings if it had been qe­ cided by the Administrator to appoint these gen­ tlemen? It had apparently been cut and d ried by the Administrator.

1660. The Clwirman.-Are we to understand that you had no personal objection to Mr . Little, but onlv to the method in which he was appointee}? -A. Yes.

1661. Q. Is there any other matter?- A. Yes,

in reaard to the outlawry of O'Brien. This refers more b to a matter of maladministration than to

O'Brien. O'Brien last year was undergoing a t erm of imprisonment. He ran away from gaol on th~ 19th Mav. A proclamation was issued by Mr,

Griffin, the then Magistrate, that in the eyent .of anyone seeing him, and he refused to go w1tp

them to the police, he. might be shot. Nurr:i bers of police were sent scounng the bush after him. As the white men were empowered to shoot him, the black police also, no doubt, were.

1662. Q. Do you know that as a m;:i.tter .of

fact ?-A.' No, but he has never been seen since. 1663. Q. Do you infer from that that O'Brien was shot ?-A. He was either shot or died from

exhaustion. The proclamation slioufd never have been issued. He was goaded on by the blacks.

They have a habit of passing nasty remarks. 1664. Q. Do you know of your own knowledge that O;Brien was goaded by the blacks ?-A. No, only by the statement I have heard he made to

a man after he got out of prison. Mr. Griffin,

who issued the proclamation, during his stay at Kokoda, showed open hostility to white people. I might mention the case of David Rennie, who was lost in the bush out of his mind. Mr. Griffin was

requested b,· some miners who were in search of Rennie to kind!\· allow the police to assist, but

this he did not do. . -

1665. Q. Do 1ou know as a fact that he did

not scnrl out an_ poli e ?- .tl. Yes, he admitted it. The 111jne1s, on hearing that :.[r. Griffin had re­ fused .to send out the police to search, immediately,

. L. Joubert, 12th Oot., 1906.

66

got up a. pet1t10n, igned Ly all the people in this

locality, humbly requesting :\Ir. Griffin to allow the police to assist in the search for this lost man.

This p tition was sent to him in the night, and an

acknowledgment "·as receiY d, but no police \Yere sent. 1666. Q. In the acknowledgment did he state

" ·hether he would or would not send the police?­ A. _ · o, it was simply a cold acknowledgment. The majority of the diggers cootinued in the search as long as they could, and after a. few days it was

abandoned, · except three men, who persisted, and ultimateh· found Rennie in a dying state. The

man died in a few months after his recovery, pro­ bably (,re do not know) from the effects of his ex-posure.

capecl ?-A. Yes, he was uppo ed to han! had hi head laid open by a tomahawk. r 67 5. Q. It is not an extraordinary thing, i it,

that under such a circumstance O · Brien should not have returned to settled districts ?-A. _To. I be­ lieve he had very serious charge hanging oYer ijim. 1676. Q. In regard to Rennie, as a matter of

fact, was he not a hard drinking man ?-A. Yes. 1677. Q. And probably died from that cause?­ A. He had not been drunk for some time. 1678. Q. But it might have affected ihim ?-A. Yes.

1679. Q. What is your present occupation ?-A. I manage for Clunas and Clark during the farmer's absence. T 680. Q. How long have you been with the firm ?

-A. About seven years. 1667. O. When the miners requested Mr. Griffin to send the police out had he any available?­

A. He had some in the station, we do not know

how many.

1681. Tlte Clzairman.-You mentioned that seve­ ral murders of natives have occurred close to Ko-. koda. Could you give the Commission any specific instances ?-A. No, only Mr. J\leeks' carrier. 1668. (). But you are certain he had some?-A . Yes, I ::i.m po"sitive.

1669. Q. Speaking persona,llv. haYe rnu had any experience of ?\Ir. Griffin's want of sympathy?­ A. 'C es, I will state my °''"n c:ase. In s ·eptember

last year, I was managing Clunas and Clark's

stor~ on the Yodda Valley gold-field. My native earners on 4th September, en route to the Yodda, a few miles this side of Kokoda Station, bad a

repack load stolen £rem them bv Orokaivas. This load was valued at £22 2s. 6d. , and contained

n1edicines, cartridges, caps, and tobacco. The

boys arrived on the field on the 6th. On the fol­

lo,Ying day I despatched them on the return trip, reporting the less of the load as they passe(l

Kokoda,. The leading boy, Lolaku, was carrying n:~ ozs . gold, and letters for our depot. Boeri

store. T~i;;; hoy acled as escort, and had a ·permit for carrying a gun, but was arrested bv A.R.M.

~·:arriQltt on a charge of murder, and · the gold

c1.llowed to be taken on down the road bv an or­ dinary carrier. The bov went to A.R. M. ' Marriott anu reported the loss of the load stoilen previously, and was arrested bv1 Marriott on another charrre

altogether. The car;ier who ,ms carn·ina the aold on getting between 20 and 30 mil~s "'down° th~ track, was met by Mr. Griffin who cross-examined him in reg::i.rd t~ the murder c~se, and the boy told

me t~at Mr. Gnffin told him he lied in reply to his q11est1ons, and would be out in gaol on his return to Kokoda. This was sufficient to make any carrier desert.

1670. Q. Do you know if :Mr. Griffin knew that this boy was carrying the gold ?-A. No. There

were from 50 to 100 carriers on the track, and he

happened to fix on the boy carrying the gold. T his bov kn~w he was carrying valuables, and he went ~o ~og1 Depot Store, threw the box with the gold ms1de, and deserted. I consider it a wrong action on the part of the Government to allow th:e gold to

go on at all after the escort had been arrested. r671. Mr. Herbe-rt.-Was [r. l\farriott told that the hm' "'as carrving gold ?-A.. ro, but the OO\'

was carrying gold everv trip, and carries a rifle.

and acts as escort. The native who was with him tel Is me that he knew be was carrying the gold. r672. l/Ir . O.keden.-You have sworn to the rea­ $:Ons wlw the bov deserted. You say it was

P.nough to make a1iy bov desert ?-A. Yes ; the other carriers told me who were there. r673 . T!te Cltairman.-You sav that the first robberv was reported to _ Ir. '\Ionckton. What

action ,ms taken ?-r-1. :\"one. ,ve beard no,hiwr further about it. A number o[ murders of nJti\'C:'1: have occurred in the same virinit\' sine then. 1674. llfr. Hc.rbert.- I understand that the poli1'<' guard was injured by O'Bri '11 al the time be ' -

. '

1682. Q. Any other matter?-A. Yes. On the

26th April, 1905, a. miner named Linney was

summoned for allegedly striking a native in hjs em­ ploy. He was taken to Kokoda and fined £3, or a month in gaol. The £3 were never collected,

nor tbe man ever put in gaol. The boy was

stopped from working with Linney. I consider

that a poor way of administering la.w. 1683. Q. Was the sentence not carried out in any way?-A. No. 1684. Mr. Okeden.-How do you know he was sentenced ?-A. Linney himself came into my store on his return to Kokoda and informed me so.

1685. Mr. Herbert.-How do you know he never paid the fine ?-A. He told me previous to my leav­ ing the Yodda last Nov;ember. He was fined in

April. 1686. Q. Referring to the appointment of Mr. Little, you have not seen the 1 Constitution Act ?-A. No.

1687. Q. The Legislative Council consists of six official members and three non-official members ap­ pointed bv the Governor-General. Am I right in understanding that you are satisfied with that IR. w

provided some expression of choice is sought prior to appointment so as to guide in some way the

Governor-General ?-A. No, I would not be satic;­ fied. · The larger proportion of the white people live on these gold-fields, and I know tbev prefer electoral representation . That is the oninion of

the people I come into contact with. Represen­

tation should be by election.

SEVENTEENTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 13TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GOVERNMENT STEAM YACHT " :\IERRIE ENGLAND,') AT MAM-BARE BEACH.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A . K. :\IAcKAY, C.B., :\I.L. C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry- keden, Es1. I.S.O.,

Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert, )fr. E. Harris, Sr, rrtan- to thr Commi . . ion.

JOHN O'TOOLE

,ra. . worn and xamined. ::i. s follows:

1688. TIie C lzairman.- Wbat i' ::our nam,? --!1. John O'T00Ie.

1689. Q. What are you ?-,L Miner on the Gir:1. gold-field.

r 69o .. Q · How long h a Ye rnu been on that fi eld? -A. Smee 1898. -

1691. Q · Do you represent t he body of miners

on the Gira ?- A. Yes.

1692. Q. In wh~t way were you appoi nted ?-A. I ,and Mr. Cummins we re appointed at a meetin rr held lo.st Sunday. I hand in the minutes of that

meeting. 1693. Q. So that you r ep resent the nine mine rs whose names appear on the list ?-A. Yes, and one othe:r-!homas l\Iurray, whom I met on the road commg 111, and who said he was arrreeable to my re -presenting him. 0 •

r694. · Q. Rav~ ~ou any views you wish to put

~efore the C:ommission a s a delegate ?-A. Yes. The iirst matte r 1s the manner of Mr. Little's election to the Legislative Council. 1695. Q. Do you not conside r it satisfacton- ?

-A. To. The meieting was called of miners ·at

Tamata on the IIth June to select a person to be

nomina.ted by His Excellep ,c v. The meeting was called by Mr. Monckton. I show rnu the ori ainal

notice. ·we consider that it was n·ot fair to brino- . • b mmers m to Tamata to make an appointment which we understand since was alreadv made. 1696. Q. Am I to understand that the appoint­ ment of Mr. Little was actually made before this meeting was called ?-A. The nominations must

have been made in Port Moresby before the meet ­ ing was called. or at the date of the meeting. We

,ve re led to believe that no expenses were to be paid to a member of the Legislative Council. I show

he re copy of the minutes of the Gira meeting. 1697. Q. Are we to understand th.at, in spite of that statement, Legislative Councillors are allowed expenses ?--A. I do not know. \Ve understand they

are. 1698. lvlr. Herbert.-Would the fact that they are have altered or influe nce d your choice on that occasion ?-- A. Certainlv.

1699. The Clzairma"'n.-Are the objections of yourself and those you re present as to the methods adopted r.ather than to the principle of this system of appointment ?-A. I would be satisfied with the

present system for the time being, but not for the future. ·

1700. Q. What is your suggestion as regards the future ?-A. Elective represenitation. by the male population of New Guinea. That is the idea of th~ people I represent, and all the p eople _ on the fie]_d. I have a petition on that .subject, signed by twenty­ nine people on the field. It is from the Gira people,

and is jllOt yet completed. When it is completed it is to be handed to the Federal l\finister. 17or. Q. Have you anything furthe r to say deal­ ino- with the election of l\fr. Little ?- A. No. The

m~nneii of his election seems to be unpopular on the field. 1702. Q. The unpopularitv is on account of the manner of el ec ti on , and d oes not refe r to tbe man? - A. As far as I am concerned, I do not think 1r.

Little is a fit and proper p erson to represent the

miners, on account of the hold of the missionaries. The miners want some one who is independent of e verybody. That is my p ersonal view .. I may tell YOU fhat another .;ection of the populat10n, as Mr.

'Little has been elected. would give him a trial , ancJ see what he can do. P ersona ll y, I do not t hink any one has anything to say ag~inst Mr. Lit~le. .

1703. Q. What other matter. do you wish to lmng before us ?- A. Roads., b ridges, and boys ' t racks

from the stores to the gold-fi elds. 1704. Q. Are those not i.n a satisfactory rn :1 cli­ tion at present ?~ A. No.

67 John O'Toole, 13th Oot., 1906.

1705. Q. Have you any suggestions you would like t u make in regard to that matter ?--A. The

t rack from Tamata to the Gira is at present in a

,·er y bad state. In fact, some of the crossings over the creeks are absolutely dangerous. 1706. Q. Do you consider that the local officers a re doing their best in regard to this road with the means at their disp0sal ?-A. There were a lot of boy s, in charge of a native policeman, but better ,,-ork ,rnuld have been done if they ha

not want roads, but simply tracks that a man can walk ovei:- The tracks requir~ repairing occasion­ ally. W ne ropes should be stretched over thre(' crossings on the Aikora, as those crossings are a great drawback to miners getting their goods there.

: 707 ·. Q. Have the miners made any represen­ tations m regard to this matter to the authorities? -A. Yes, but with no result. At the beginning cf last year \\·e had se_ veral large meetings at Tamata,

fifteen or , seventeen persons being Jprese!nt. In May, 1905, a deputation of five was appointed, and ,~aited ol:- H1_s Excellency on board the !11 errze l! .. ngland m this bay, and put these and other mat­ ters before him, with practically no result.

1708. Q._ What reply did His ExcellencY. give the deputation ?-A. In_ regard to the wire rope, be reckoned he would consider the matter. Four bov.:,' huts _were to be built along the roads. That be

promised, but they have not been built. A visiting doctor was asked for at. the same time. The only reply we got was practically that if we wanted a doctor we would ha.ve to pay for one. He said he oould not entertain the idea. We pointed out the hrnvv death-rate among the boys, and we think he should have given us a little help in the matter.

The onl y remedv he seemed to have in regard to the death-rate was closing the field, and a notice was posted up at T amata store that the field would have to be ~losed to boys if there was not an improw~­ rr.i ent m the death-rate. The rate has improved

?mce: but that was due to the better rice which

1s hemg brought on the field.

1709. Q. Do you think that mule transport would be a great help to the mining population ?-A. Yes; and we then c?uld do with less boys, and it would cost less to deliver the goods from the main stores.

I7 ro. Q. Do you think that would be practicable between Tamata and Gira ?-A. Yes, although it is rou &h counitry. There are no insurmountable diffi­ culties, for rs or , 16 miles at any rate.

171 r. ll{r. Herbert. - What would mule t racks cost ?- A. I have no idea.

17 12. Q. Would the present track need much doing ~o it ?- A. To; but it would require looking to. at times. Tbe tracks used now were cut by the mrners, and they have been a little improved since . T he·

J7 r3. !'lze Clzainnan.- Is there anything else?-A. Yes , m regard to a p rospecting ,·ote. •

1. 7 14. Q. What do you propose, a sum of money

or mcreased areas for 1:he men who discover payable fi elds ?- A. The area 1s pretty large at present , if

we get outside a! gold-field, but the whole of this p art of the country has been declared a gold-fiel d. r715. Q. Then what do you want ?-A. We want a ,·ote to help men to go out pro pectin g. T hey

s~1ould be assisted to help to prospect t he country . ..

\ ou could put a sum of money on t he Estimates

for t \\' o or three years, a nd the Warden could re­ com r:ri cnd· and eq ui~ parties to go out. T wo private parties on t he Wana have been out two months, at E2

John O'Toole, 13t~ Oot., 1906.

68

a co3t of from £400 to £500, and the best of the field may fall to others. 1716. Q. But as they were the original pros-

pectors, does not a claim go to them ?-A. Yes, if they apply for it; but they may have to leave owing to want of food or protection, and may lose it. 1 may say that those two men on the Waria have been

out for four months, and the tr 'P must have cost them between £400 and £500. That would be a fair average to take. 1717. Q. Would the miners be in favour of an expert geologist being sent to this country for the

purpose of fully inspecting the country and giving in!ormation? - A. Yes, they would like it very

much. 1718. Q. Would the practical result justify it?-A. I believe it would. There is only aJ very small corner of the country tried. I also think that, in

the event of a large piece of colL11.try fit for sluicing or hydraulic work being found, the Government should help the miners to bring water to work it. 1719. Q. How do you propose that that should

be done ?- A. That the Varden, after inquiry being made, and if he thought the scheme ,ms possible, should advise the Government to advance a sum of money to help the men to bring in the water, which,

if the scheme were successful, could be paid back in instalments, which the Warden and assessors could agree on. If unsuccessful, the men would lose their time, and the Government would lose some

money. Then we are in favour of trial by jury.

That is referred to in the petition which I have

shown. It is a very necessary institution for the country. 1720. Q. Are you not satisfied with the present methods ?-A.. No.

1721. Q. Can you give any specific case where in-justice has been done under existing methods?-.­ A. Yes, one case at least, that of Steve Wolf. I

heard that case in the I'olice Court, and the greater part of it before the Judge. I do not think it

fair to Wolf the way the whole matter was carried on. He had practically no lawyer or counsel to

assist him, with the exception of one layman. The interpreters in the case were two native police, and one could not interpret direct without the aid of the other. In my opi11ion, I do not think the

result would have been the same under trial by jury, according to the evidence I heard. 1722. Mr. Herbert.-That is, you differ from the Judge, and, therefore, you think twelve men

would have differed from the Judge ?-A. Yes, be­ cause I knew part of the circumstances of the case. 1723. The Chairman.-Wolf was convicted, was

he not?-A. Yes, on the evidenGe principa1ly of two or three native witnesses. 1724. Q. Do you think, if he had been tried by jury, he would have been acquitted ?-A. T think

so. I think, if he had had legal assistance., the

death sentence would not have been passed on him. 172·5. Q. Had Wolfi iainy meanS.:?-A. I could not say. We were getting up a subscription here to defray the expenses of a solicitor, but could not make an appointment for the Court to be held so

that tht solicitor could attend. 1726. Q. So that your difficulty would ha,·e

been got over if the Govemment could have given you a fixed date ?-A. Yes. · 1727. Q. But that, of cou~se, lias nothing to do with trial bv jur:. It might hatve occurred even with trial b,· jury ?-A. Yes. Wolf was sent to

Port Ioresbv, 1'llstead of beinp; left at Samarai, from which some communication could have ken made to a s~licitor in Queensland. 1728. Q. Did the men who were raising mr1 nc ·

to nrovide counsel ask the Government to fix a date, and the Government were unable to do so?-

A. Yes,; the solicitor wrote to me that the G°'·ern­ mult could not fix a date. 17 2 9. Q.. How ,rould you propose to get a panel of Jury in the case "·here seYeral panels were chal­

lenged, ::,ay on the Gira, where you haYe o:1ly thiny or forty men ?-A. They could do the same thing as they do m ot~er places, say in Queen -

land. We ha,e enough people to enable a jur::

of six to be selected. All the Central Courts are

held at V, oodlark, Samarai, and Port )fores by,

and I think they could combine the lists of the

t,rn fields, say Woodlark and here, and 'between them they: should l.Je able to get a jury. 17 30. Q. Do you consider that in serious cases a white ;.nterpreter should be employed ?-A. Yes.

17 3 r. Q. In regard to trial by jury, is it a fact

that when any native " pulls" a white man it is

impossible to get other white men to giYe evidence against that white man ?-A. I have not heard of any case where a white man has refused to giYe evidence against another white man. I know of a

case where ;i white man refused to give evidence in the case of the murder of a white by a black. J7 32. lllr. Okedcn.-HaYe you got such a man

on your field ?-A. No, he is not on the field. 17 33. lib. H erbert.-Respecting the matter of an interpreter, coulu you get one paid interpreter who would understand all the languages ?-A. It would . be hard. He would only be required in

murder cases. 17 34. The C Jtairman .-Is there any other mat-ter ?-A. Yes ; the more punctual attendance of the Central Court in the Northern Division.

1735. Q. Can you give any instance of hardship occurring owing to this want of punctuality? -A. Yes. I had to attend the Court from April

the 2nd to the 8th, 1905, in a Crown case. I

attended the Court, came back to work again, and came in a second time, from the 3rd April to the 6th May. I went back, and came in again on the

16th May, and went back again on the 20th. I

was nineteen days at Court, six days travelling in and out of Taimata, three trips, and two days up the river from here to Tamata - in all, twenty­

seven days,. I had also three signed-on natives for witnesses in the same case, and they lost the same amount of time, and I had to pay, and feed them duri1ng thrut time. One of! them I had to pay 17s. or 18s. overtime when his time was finished as he

was delayed over the period of his contract.' 17 36. Q. What occasioned aU this delay ?-A. We were called in to attend the Court, and the

.!iferrie Enj!,land and the Judge did not arrive. '.The Judge, I unden5tand, was ill at the time at Port

Moresby. I was paying the boys £r a month, and d_id not get any compensation. At Samarai I was offered 6s. a day for myself and .r:othing 'for the boys. but I refused. The boys cost me 2s. 6d. a

day for their wages and food. r 7 3 7. Q. What allowances are made to white wjtnesses ?--A. None. 1738. Mr. Herbert.-Were any made to you?-A .. No.

1739. Q. Were you subprenaed ?-A. Yes. A voucher was sent to me f?r expenses during the pre­ sent year, but the magistrate did nof know how much was to be allowed. I understand it is 6s. a

day now. 1740. Tlie Clzairman.-ls the Court often de­ layed in the manner you have stated ?-A. It is not punctual.

1741. Q. Acd the result is that the miners are

often put to great inconvenience ?-A. Yes. Often the men will not co 1e if they can help it. A white man was murdered by hi signed-on r.ative and the men in. the vicinity knew this and would ~ot report

the matter, because they thought they would lose

69 John O'Toola. 13th Oot., 1906.

too much time. _In the end the boy confessed him­ self, ar.d was tned and hanged. He shot his em­

ployer, a man ~amed Brown. I think in the 1904-5 Repor~ the Resident Magistrate states it is lurd to get evidence against whites in the Xorthern Divi­ sion, but I srty that if the Court was held more re­

~ularly they would get their witnesses. I ,ms par­ ticularly told to dra.w vour atter.tion to that para­ gr_a.ph.. In one case a· man had to travel over 40

miles mto T a m.ata and out again, and ,vas detained three weeks waiting. T.7·12· Q. _'\Vas that on the same occasion as you ;eferred to m your case ?-A. Yes but rot in con-nexion with the same case. '

T743· Q. What is the next .matter ?-A. The

natives have been troubling the miners at Water'fall Creek for some time, and they consider thev have not had any protectior. from the Government: There was a murder them last July of a boy.

I744. llfr. Herbert.-Whose boy ?-A. Man of the name of Anderson, and another boy was speared previous to that. !745· Q. Any others ?--A. The natives have been robbing the camps. They have stolen three rifles belonging to R. Ravener, A. Park, and C. 'Richard.

The .miners aoplied for protection as far back as October Jast, but nothing has been done. 17 46. Q. That is, the offenders have not been

caught ?-A.. No. Thev murdered two men in

1902, and I do not kno~v if any of them have been punished. 1747. Q. Have ar..y .attempts been made ?-A. Yes, there has been a man out lately trying to catch

them. I believe he has caught three. The natives

are getting very cold. They come within 15 miles of th;: poiice c:imp and murder the boys. 1748. Q . Wh.at protection do you want?-A.

Some or.e should be sent out to catch the offenders. 1749. Q. And vou say nothing has been done

until <]Uite rece ntly ?--A. No. The miners have

been complaining for some time, and ur~til June no­ thing was done. 17 50. Mr. Okeden.-Dicl YOU not say the mur­ der occurred in July ?-A. Yes. The Government sent out a man lately from Melbourne who was

quite unacquainted with the countrY. He had six police, and th.at number was quite inadequate. Con­ sidering his lack of experience he did fairly well. 17 51. Tl1e Cltairman.-Is there anythir-g else?-­ il. We are jn favour of .a road to the Waria by the

nearest and best wav in our mvn Territory, pro­

vided the expense is warranted. In reg~~d to Go­ vernment recruitir.g, we think that recrmtrng could be done by the Govenment and be payable. We

think it would be to the advantage of the .miners and settlers, and more boys v.;ould be obtained. We also thir. k the miners sh0ul d be allowed to re­ cruit their mvn boys, if the Government C<)ys did not suit them. B · Government recruitinrr "·e mean the substitution of the Government for the present

middle.mar.. 17 5 2. Q. Do you think it would be wise ~or the GoYernment to undertake the transport service up to the mines ?-A. Yes, and the Governmen t sh0uld take over the ·whole of the recruiting, engagement

::i.r.d paying of the boys. That is mv own pers011a 1 o ini on, but the recruiting by the Government ,,·:y; n~e of the matters I was authorized to spenk m

fovom of. I als(1 think that ... light ye.arL· t:1x

sh0uld he i.mnosed upon the natin'sJ and th:1t it would m·1 ke therri work . ·

1753. Q. Do you think it. wo:1ld be possible to rollect sn."'h a tax ?--A. I th1r.k 1t would. In ench

DiYision tbe magistrate could rea h a porti?n _of the native:;, and iri tiluC. ,rn,~ir~ h:c- .'.lL t te; !::~f·i1 ti,: 11>·. You could make the Village Constable or the nllage chirf parth re.sponsibte .

17 54. Q. :But I understand the village chief has rio power over the natives ?-A. Then make the Village Constable responsible. 1755. Q. Do you think the natives in your

locality should pay a cash tax ?-A. Yes. 17 56. Q. Have you considered the question o'f t he amount ?-A. I think that might be left to the Legislative Council. Another matter I would like to put forwa.rd is this: I caught a man robbing an­ other man's camp. I sent for the police, and

handed him over when they came next day, and that man had to pay 1 rs. for the cost of the prose­ cution; the magistrate was Mr. Oelrichs. I do not think he should be called to pay the expenses after being robbed. Another ma.tter is the rem:>Ving of

the police statior. to the present site. Several meet­ ings were held by miners, protesting against it on the grounds of inconvenience. The police station originally was close to the store at Tamata. It is

r.ow 3 miles up the creek on the opposite side to

the store. It is nearer the field, but further from

the scene of operation, as most of the business is done at the store, Mr. Cummins, the storekeeper, cfoing nearly all the .business in connexior. with the boys.

17 57. Q. Was it not moved to its present place on account of the healthy position ?-A . . No. I

think that is the reasor. the Government gave.

JOHN CUMMINS

was sworn and examined, as follows : -17 58. The Chairman.-What is your name ?-A. John Cummins. 17 59. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. Store­ keeper at Tama.ta.

1760. Q. Were you appointed with Mr. O'Toole to represent the mir..ers, whose names .appear on the paper handed to us ?--A. Yes. 176r. Q. Have you anything further to add to

what was put before the Commission by Mr.

O'Toole ?-A. No. I think Mr. O)Toole has ex­ plained everything. 1762. O. Are we to understand that you are in accord with the views expressed by him regarding .matters placed before us .as a member of the depu­

tation ?-A. Yes.

EIGHTEENTH DAY.

14TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GOVERN· MENT STEAM YACHT " MERRIE ENGLAND," AT BUNA BAY:)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert. Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HON,ORABLE WILLIA 1 JOHN LITTLE, M.L.C., made the following statement:-1763. Mv name is William John Little. I am a miner, and- member of fhe Legislative Council. I have be~n nearly seven years in _ -ew Guinea, and ha,·e spent that time principally in the ~ Torthern

W. J. Little,

14th Oct., 1906.

Division. I have two suggestions to make, which I think will be to the adrantage of tbe country.

The first is in regard to the adrisauility of the Go­ vernment taking over tbe recruiting, and from a business point of , iew I wish to show that it

could be made a success of. Taking the boys for mining and carrying, there are 1 ,ooo signed on on the 30th June, 1906, for those. purposes. A

probable increase in t,he number of boys could have been obtained, say, 400, making a total of

1,400. Those at £4 a head amount to £5,600

for recruiting fees. Those figures I obtained from Mr. Whitten, who h,as been engaged in this busi­ ness a considerable time, and he says that a steamer suitable for recruiting that number of boys would cost £3,000. That would be a better boat than

the one used at present. The cost of maintenance of the steamer for one year would be £2,500, and that leaves a profit on the net transaction of £roo for the year's work, after paying for the steamer.

There were also 783 boys signed on for work other th:an for mining. These I have left out, with a

view of showing that there cannot be any possible loss in the Government taking this matter over, al­ though they would be included in any scheme of Government recruiting, and thus increase the profit. There is another matter which I have not mentioned for the same reason, and that is that there would be a certain amount of money made in returning bovs to their homes. There is a f.ee of ros. for

returning boys to their homes. In all probability it would be neces,sary to have more than one

steamer. I would strongly advise that two be

purchased, as in two years both would be paid for, and leave a certain a·mount of profit on the trans­ action. In my opinion, two would be necessary. I would like to point out that recruiting by private enterprise has been, and is at present, a failure

from the point of view of the employer, and all the industries of New Guinea are dependent upon

native labour. In regard to our land law, I con­

sider it is most liberal, but without you can ensure a good and reliable supply of native labour you

will not be able to induce people to come to the

country. The same thing also appli.es to the

mining industry. The steamers I have suggested for recruiting, when not used in that work, could be utilized for general Government purposes. 1764. The next matter I wou1d suggest is that

the Government send a prospecting exploring party through the unexplored part of New Guinea, and that a geologist and several miners be attached to the party. The cost of .such an undlertaking

would be about f,1,000, excluding the expense of the geologist. The benefits to be derived from a p;uty of this kind would be that YOU could get a

complete and reliable account of the unexplored part of N"ew Guinea, and t11e geologist would be able to supply useful information, and a geological map of the country. I feel sure it would be a

su ccess, as every portion of New Guinea that we have any knowledge of is auriferous, ancl this can be easily seen by examining a map of the country showincr the situation of the present known gold­ bearint areas. There b:as never been a trip of this

kind done in the country, and if one were arranged, I think it would induce' people to form syndicates in Australia, and come here with a Yiew of pro pect­ inrr on their own account as a speculation, a'1d

th;t. of course, would also assist the development of the countrv. The £1,000 is allowing for a

tri n of ei£rht months, and I think it would be quite sufficient for the purpose. The party should con­ sist of a geologist, three or four miners, and car­ ri ers. I have not included miners' wages in t:1e

e. timat€', as I am (]Uite sure that first-class men

wauld be only too ready to give their time for an

70

object of this kind. When the geologist came here he could also examine the known gold-field , and tl1e information would IJe ycry valuaule to u ·.

JOHN THOMPSON SEYMOUR \\'as examined, as follows:--1765. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name?-A .. John Thompson Seymour.

1766. Q. What position do you occupy in the

service ?-A. Superintendent of Roads, :Korthern ] )i vi sion. 1767. Q. Are you responsible for the condition of the roads in this Division ?-A. Under l\lr.

Monckton. I receive mv instructions from him. 1768. Q. I understanJ. that the road from Euna Bay to the Yodda is in anything but a satisfactory condition ?-A. It is much more satisfactory than

when I came here. 1 769. Q. Do you consider it is .in a satisfactory

condition at the present time ?-A .. · ' O. 1770. Q. Can yc;m ,give us any reason for that

state of affairs?--A. Want of money is the chief

reason, 1771. Q. Is there any other reason ?-A. No. If we had the money we could get proper labour. 1 77 2. Q. Do you mean native or European

labour ?-A. It would require European labour to make a good road, with suitable bridges, and to

raise the road. 1773. Q. Could that not be done by natiYc

labour ?-A. Io, not the skilled work, such as

building suitable bridges. 1774. Q. Is the native labour you have at pre-

sent satisfactory ?-A. No. 1775. Q. In-what way is it not?-A. It is very difficult to get on account of the keen competition between the stores and the Government, and when you do get the boys they do not remain long.

Five weeks is the longest period I have had them at one time. Then they have had enough, and

clear awav. 177 6. Q. Have you power to engage the boys

for anv stated period ?-A. No. If I am in a

difficultv I relv on )Ir. Monckton, and he sees me out of i"t. He helps me to get labour.

1777. Q. Then the roads might be in an im­

passable state, and it might be absolutely and ur­ gently ne essary that thev should be repaired, and still you might be utterlv unable to do anvthing, as your boys might walk away any moment ?-A. That is so.

177 8. 0. Does this occur with private people?­ A .. Yes; the labourers are continualh: running awav. r 779. 0. I understand that in the case of pri­

vate people, they have their boys signed on for a

d efinite period, and if thev run awa,· there is a

power to bring them back, that is the Government? -A. That is so.

r 780. 0. Has not the GoYernment or arn· officer of the Government power to sign on boYs ?-A .. I do not know, and can only say about my mrn

work. 178r. Q. Have you power to sign on bo~s?-.4. No power at ::i.lL 17-82. Q. If you had that power rri,·en to rn11. would it enable vou to get o,·er your difficulty ?-A .. It wo1.1ld help me a gre::1t deal.

178,,. n. ·can YOU gi,·e an,· 0ther specific in­ ~tan"E'S of

the Runa tribe wo 1ld not shift out of tl,eir lwts for T'lf'. T hase ::1s ·0

h11n

I I

only a small matter, I have never bothered brincring it before 1fr. Monckton. . b

17 ?4· Q. Have you put this position before the Admm1strator ?-A. Yes, partly. Some time ago I asked, through )Ir. )Ionckton, for a dozen bovs who could handle tools, to make bridges, as I a·m not a carpenter. Mr. Ionckton wrote down and

spoke to the Administrator, and I spoke to him

here: and he_ said he would do his best to get them, but 1t \Yas difficult, as they were scattered so much. . ~ 7_ 8 5. Q. Did you point out to him the im pos­

s1b1hty of doing work unless you h ad power to

keep these boys for a definite time ?-A. No; but I told him I could do much better work if I had

those signed on boys who could use tools, as iust

when I get the other boys to be useful, away they

go. When he was here the other day, he said he

would do all he could to help me.

17 86. Q. Are we to 1.mderstand that unless a

more satisfactory system is commenced, it will be quite impossible to do good road work in the

Korthern Division ?-A. Yes. 1787. Q. Would it not m aterially help you in

keeping this road in passable order if you could get the labour you get at present signed on for ;1

definite period ?-A. It would help me a good

deal, but even they are not good enough. They

are good e nough to dcY the labouring work on the road. 1788. Q. Supposing these unskilled labourers were signed on to you for a period of twelve

months. or more, would it be possible to teach them a certain amount of skilled work ?-A. Yes; I am sure it would. 1789. Mr. H erbert.-How tong have you been on the road ?-A. Since the 4th April.

1790. Q. What do you think it wou'Id cost to

make a ro.'.ld to Kokoda fit for mule traffic ?-A. That entails the erection• of bridges. I should

say fully between £2,000 and £3,000. 1791. Q. The chief expenditurn would be

bridges ?-A. Yes. The bulk of it.

1792. Q. Is there any one bridge that w~uld_

cost much more th.an the others ?-A. The Kumus1 bridrre would cost nearly as much as all the others. 1;93. Q. Then, dispensin~ with the K~mu~i

bridrre what could you do 1t for?-A. I thmk it

would' cost about £2,000 to enable traffic to go alono- in all weathers, wet or dry. r t94· Q. Is t?e road passable. for mul~s in Jhe dry season, leavmg out the question of ~mdges . -A. I should say it is up to t~e Kumus1, and be­

twe,e n Kokoda and Koko, barnng one place at the Divide . There is no road at all there.

r795. Q. What would that cost ?-A. I would

not like to say the cost.

1796. llfr. Okeden.-Would the bridges you sug­ gest be flood-•proof?-A. If they are 1;1ade pro­ . per 1 y. One or two wou~d have very wide spans. The Kumusi is very rapid.

q 97. Tlte Cltairman.-Do you pay all the boys employed by you the full curr,ent rate of wages?-A. No. .

1798. Q. What are thev paid ?-A. I requ1S1-tioned for some trade for them so tha t I c~uld pay equal to the others, but I do not know how it turned out. I pav them three sticks of tobacco per head

per day. The stores give them tomahawks, beads, ralico and other trade goods, and they get boys

easier' than we do. 17 99 . O. Supposing you were in a position to

nav your boys at the same ~ates as the stores. anc; in ·the same way, do you thmk _that that would ~e, over the difficulty of their clearing out and leaving yo:..i?-A. No.

'11

THE HO:\"ORABLE CHARLES ARTHUR ~i\"II1H10RE' MONCKTO~ . M.L.C.,

\\·as examined, as follows : -1800. 11Jr. 11 crbert.-What is your name ?-A. Charles Arthur Whitmore l\Ionck.ton. 1801. Q. What offices do you hold in the Ser~ vice ?-A. Resident Magistrate for the Possession ; Resident ~Iagistrate for the Northern Division; Gold Warden for the Possession; Gold Warden for

the K orthern Division_; l\Iember of the Executive and Legislative Councils_; Senior Officer of the A._ -.c.; Senior Postmaster at Tamata and Ko­ koda; Senior ~ ative l\Iagistrate _; Visiting Justice

for Gaols; Commissioner for Affidavits of the

Central Court; High Bailiff; Agent for the Curator of Intestate Estates _; Assistant Registrar for

Births, Marriages, and Deaths_; Inspector upder Indigenous Timber Ordinance_; Inspector under the Diseased Animals Ordinance; Acting-Sheriff; Justice of the Peace for the Celebration of Mar­ riages ; Justice empowered to consent to the Mar­

riages of Minors; Officer empowered to grant or re­ voke Permits under Arms; Liquor and Opium Ordinance; and Receiver of Wrecks. 1802. Q. You are at present stationed in the

Korthern Division ?-A. Yes. 180 3. Q. Did you ever rece ive instructions to

make inquiries on the spot into some alleged

atrocities at Milne Bay?-A. Yes; with the R.l\I. of the Eastern Division, Mr. Moreton. 1804. Q. Were those inquiries made soon after the o:xurrence of the murders ?- A. It was no~ very

long after. .

1805. Q. Did you make any report in conse­

quence ?-A. I cannot remember whether I pre­ pared a special report, but, as far as I can reme111-ber, it was all put in proofs for evidence which\

were subsequent! y given in at the Central Court at Samarai. 1 806. Q. Where do those proofs so taken go

eventually ?-A. I think thev would be found m the records of the Central Court. r 807. Q. Who prosecutes at the Central Court , for the Crown ?-A. N"o one, as far as I know.

1808. Q. Then are the proofs merely handed to · the Judge ?-A. The whole of the evidence taken at the Lower Court is handed to the J uctge. r809. Q. Where will the statement of the wit­

nesses made to you be found ?-A. The original statements to myself and Mr. Moreton should be found on record at the Court of Pettv Sessions,

and certified copies with the warrants of committa l in the Central · Court. r8ro. 0. Did you ever see a memorandum from Judge Winter to the R.M., Eastern Division,

suggesting an inquiry into the circum stances sur­ rounding the death of Sipilia, one of th ose men

a lleged to have Leen killed at Milne Bay ?- A. I

do not remember very well. 18 rr. Q. And suggesting that it should be made bv h.i.m, a11d that vou should accompany him for the purpose ?-A . TO; not in a memorandum to

that effect . I did see a memorandum written bv

the J ud~e in consequence of a letter bv Mr. Abel. He said that in cases where specific charges were made against any particular person or persons the matter shou l

think, "·as that no inriuiry should be made to in­ Yesti~ate vague rumours, but only in particular case" where rh;uges are made. r8r2. 0. Was it in consequence of that me:110-

rwdum tl1at YOU made those innuiries into the de.1th of Sanilia and othe s ?--A. res . 18n. (). Do vou know where that memorandum is ?- A. No. · .

r8r4. n. Where shoul

C. A. W. Monoldon, 14th Oot., 1906.

1815. Q. Do you remember the case of O'Brien, at K okoda ?-A. Yes.

'12

1816. Q. Who arrested him ?-A. I did. 1817 . Q. Who accompanied you ?-A. Mr. Bel-lamy . 1818. Q. On what charge was he arrested?-

A. He was arres.ted on a warrant of common

a ssault. H e was also charged with larceny of

gold valued at about £1,000, with a charge of

shooting with intent, arson, and rape. .

1819. {!_. Can you describe the tmode of his

arres t , and what was done with him until he was lodged in K okoda gaol ?-A. At Kokoda the war­ rant was drawn out for his arrest. I was told he

was at Yodda, and I went there with ~Ir. Bellamy. I found O'Brien asleep in his camp, and arrested him. When he was arrested he said he was ex­

pecting it, and drew my atte~dion t<;> half:a-dozen native const'abtllary who were outside his tent. He said- '' You need not have brought those peo­ ple vou need not have brought those black b----s.

I ~v;uld have come on a summons." I said­

" O'Brien, I have heard some extraordinary tales about your temper, and I thought I would r~ther have them here. '' H e said he would come qmetl:r, and he came. W1 e went t'o th~ Y odda and I left him in my camp an d told Bellamy. He was. in

leg irons, as I had no other means of .secun~g

him, and I thought he would break loose if I did

not put the irons on. We left, I think, on the

:tallowing morning for Kokoda, and I put him in gaol there. 1820. Q. When was his case brought on ?-A. Bither that n i~ht or the following day. There

were three cases, and in one he was dismissed,

and in the others convicted. He was sentenced to two months' imprisonment, with hard labour, on each of the t wo charges. He had no option of a

fin e, and was lodged in Kokoda gaol. 18·21. Q. Please describe O'Brien's. treatment while in gaol ?-i1. Mr . Griffin, the Head Gaoler, and Mr. Bellam\· looked after him.

1822 . (?. What work "·as he giYen to do ?-A. Clerical wo rk in the offiae, and chopping in the

forest- clearing for a garden. 18 23. Q. Was ' he under any guard ?-A. Yes j I ordered t wo of the A.N.C. to be a guard.

1824. Q. What rations did he receive ?-A. Ex­ actly the same as Mr. Griffin and Mr. Bellamy. H e \.YaS f ed from their mess, and bad exactly the same as t hem.

1825. Q. H ow (long 1 after P'Br'ien's conviction did you remain at Kokoda ?-A. Some days. 1826. Q. Who was there when he escaped ?-A. ~fr. Griffin.

1827. Q. Whilst you were at Kokoda. how was O'Brien treated bv the native constabulary ?-A. He was treated with perfect civility. -

1828. Q. Did he make any complaiint to your knowledge about his treatment, either to you or any other offi cer ?-A. No. 1829. Q. Where is Mr. Griffin nmY ?-A. In the Gulf Di vision.

18.10. Q. H ad O 'Brien any visitors whilst in

gaol ?- A. Yes, a miner named Preston, who visited him at my suggestion. 1831. Q. Where is Preston. now ?-A .. At the Yodda.

1832. Q. Was O'Brien's escape, in your opinion, a cause of alarm on the field ?-rl. Ye, , I think

it was. Whit ten Bros.' man.ager and other miners were alarmed about it. 1833. Q. Did anybody show any indication

of fear as to the safety of their propert\· ?-A.

Yes, fr. R ochfort sent his gold into K.okocla

Station to e,

1834. Q. Where was 1r. Rochfort liYing ?--A. At the Yodda gold-field. 1835. Q. \Vas that a usual practice for .~Ir.

Rochfort?-A. Ko. 1836. Q. Had he eyer done it before?-A. He, in common with other storekeepers, had hand_ed me parcels of gold to take to the coast. but it had

never been sent to me to the station before. 1837. Q. Did mu receive the gold ?-A. I

showed Rochfort'; letter to the Treasurer, Mr. Ballantine, and he did not like to take the respon­ sibility of carrying the gold to the coast, a~d s1:g­ gested that we should write to Rochfort telhn~ him so. This I did. Rochfort replied that · he wi_shed the gold to be taken care of, but did not reqmre a

receipt, and would not hold the Governme?t re­ sponsible in any way, anri under tho~e circu1:1· stances we retained the gold, and sent L1.t down 10 t:he JJ! errie England.

1838. Q. How long after O'Brien's escape be-coming known was this gold sent down ?Y Mr. Rochfort ?-A. Approximately, on the thud day after his escape. .

1839. Q. What is the health of the whites and

natives on the Yodda field to-day ?-A. It oompan:s very favorably with any other part of the Tern-torv. i840. Q. What is the health of the whites and

natives on the Gir.a ?-A. Unsatisfactory. 1841. Q. Is it better to-day than it has been?-A... Yes, ·decidedly better. _ . _

1842. Q. What is the chi~f c~use of mort~hty among the natives ?-A. Ben-ben, and sometimes dysentery. · r 843. Q. Do you think a hospit,al is ne?e~s.ary, or would be advantageous in the Northern Division?

-A It would be verv l1ard for one hospital to

supply the wants of bot!1 fi.elds. . . .

r 844.. Q. Would penochcil medical rnsp:ctwn be an advantage ?-A. No. We know what is the cause of the mortalitv now. 1845. Q. Then how do you account for the im­

proYement in the nafri·es late!y ?-A. The Labour Ordinanae has been more stnctlv enforced, loads have been reduced, and traders have been fright­ t>ned at the mortalitv. and ha ,:e take~1 steps to de­ crease it. It was also thteatened that the field

,rnuld be closed to native labour if matters were not improved. 1 846. Q. Was closing the field contemplated seriously ?-A. Ko. but the closing of the native

Jabour on the fiield . 1847 . Q. Would not tbat be tantamount to clos-ing the field ?-A. Yes. 1848. Q. In what way was that contemplated

action conveved to the miners ?-A. Bv circular letters sen t {ound to the whole of them, and by

nublic notices. - 1849. Q. To '"hat effect ?-A. That the increas· ing death rate on the Aikor~ gold-field was exciting rrreat concern, and suggestmg two or three means

to decrease it, and unless the rate was reduced

the Government would ha.Ye to prohibit recruitin~ for the field. The mortality was something over 20 per cent.

1850. Q. What would be the cost of a telegraph lin e from Port Moresbv to Euna. BaY, exclusive of "·ire, insulators and ·i n truments ?_::_A . The mere ('OSt of erection, inclu iv of poles, would be not

more than £~00. Tha.t would inclurle the time of officers and the poJi,,e usPd. Tt would take

about six months to do it. The labour would cost '.!d. a. daY. 1851. (). Is there any question of its practici­

bilit,· ?-A.. · one ,vhate,·er. 1852. Q. Have you formed a.ny opinion of the ad,·antage of connecting ?ort More1by and the

73

North-East coast ?--A. There would be Yery areat advantages from an administrative point of vie,;. 1853. Q. Through whom were the wishes of the Administrator conveyed that the miners of the North­ ern. D.ivis.ion should give .an expression of thefr

chmce of a Legislative 1Councillor ?-A. Through me, but that ha.irdl y puts the case. In the first in

st,ance, the Administrator wrote to me ' a confidential le!ter, and asked me to s,uggest the name of a suitable mmer or other person for nomination to the Leaisla­ ti ,·e Council. I wrote back and mentioned b Mr.

Little's name quite casually .as a likely man, and asked that I be allowed to consult the assessors. He wrote back to me, " Certainly do ·so, but ma.1-e cle:ir to them that we are not bound bv their views." In

the meantime, I went up the Albert Edward, and when I returned I found a letter from the Adminis­ trator askinis me to consult the Rssessors, and let him .ha.ve the result of their meeting. I called a

meetmg at once, and had to bring men from Ail-ora and elsewhere. It took time. The first meeting was at Tamat.a, and they suggested Whitten Brothers. Several miners were mentioned, but t he names were not seconded. The question was asked whether any expenses or pay would be allowed, and I s.aid that,

as far as I knew, there was nothing. I had no know-­ ledg~ of any compensation. I called a meeting at Buna Bay. '.('here were three men there. They were as·ses!ors. One, Rochfort, refused to give any

opinion, aind the others• left it to me. I theni called a meeting at the Y odda, and two names were put forward, W. ·Whitten and Clunas, two storekeepers. A similar question regarding expen\ses was asked

and answered by me to the s.ame effect. Then I sent the whole of the papers to the Government Secre­ tary, and His Excellency sent me a priva.te note say­ ing that the Commonwealth Government had asked

him to submit names before he had received a reply to his letter, a.nd that qe had submitted certain

names. 1854. Q. Up to this time, had you informed any one ht,1t His E:xcellencv of the suggestion that you had ma.de ?--A . No.

r855. Q. Is the road from Euna to the Yodda

practicable to-day for mule traffic ?-A. No. 1856. Q. Could it be m ade so .at a reasonable out­ Iav ?-A. Yes. About £250 would do it, excluding ::i.. bridge over the Kui:nusi.

181:j7. Q. Would that make it practicable for all seas~ns ?-A. Yes-, excepting 1Yhen we had heavy fl oods or .abnormal conditio:ns. 1858. Q. Would a supply of mules for your

station be advantageous. for :·our work ?~A. Yes; undoubtedlv. The cost of transport would be les·· sened,and the use of so manv native carriers would be obviated. The boys could be used profitably on

other work. 1859. Q. Have you had any experience in other Divisions ?- A. Yes, in the Central, South-Eastern, Eastern. North-Eastern, and Northern.

r 860. Q. You, therefore, have had some experi .. ence in the question of native-owned land ?-A. Yes. r86r. Q. Have they dearlY defined boundaries

to their Janel ?-A. Yes. s86z. Q. How a re they usuallv shown?-1.

They have individual plots, communal plots, and tn­ bal bound'.lries evervwhere where I have been. 1863. Q. Are tl;ev becomin!:! mo_re ,clearly ~nrn:e of the value of the land to themsehes ,-A. Yes, m

parts of the T erritory. 1864. Q. Are you a.vare of any instance where natives. ha,,e laid claim to. lands that are unused Ly them ?-A. No. · A

186 5. Q. H.ave you heard of. such p;·act1~es ?~ .·. I haYe heard nguely of them rn the Centrnl D1u-s10n.

0. A. W. Monokton, 14th Oct., 1906.

1866. Q. How many years haYe you been in this Di\·ision ?-A. Three. 1867. Q. Are they less knowing here than they are in other Divisions ?-A. Yes.

1868. Q. Is that regard for the commercial value of la.nd only of recent growth among them ?-A. Yes. I do know of one special instance in the East­ ern DiYision. There was a small island, Eboma.

We required it for quarantine _purposes. The native mrner did not use it or require it, but he would not sell it to the Crown. ·

1869. Q. Is the Government using it now ?-A. I think that at the time we had a lease of it.

r 870. Q. What rent w.as the Government paying? -A. I think it was £6 . in tra<.le per year.

NINETEENTH DAY.

MONDAY, 22ND OCTOBER, 1906.

(Trrn COMMISSION MET AT THE STORE OF MESSRS. WHITTEN BROTHERS, YODDA.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.H., M.L.C. (Chairman) j Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

FRANCIS AUGUSTINE ROCHFORT was sworn and examinerl., as. follows :--1871. The Chainnan.-What is your name ?-A .. Francis Augustine Rochfort, miner on Yodda Gold, field, and holder of Homestead Lease No. 1. ·

1872. Q. How long b..1.ve · you been •in New

Guinea ?-A. About nine veaT . 187 3. llfr. l1 erbert.-What properties do you own ?-A. 36 acres of gold-mining leases and inte­ rests in others.

1874. Q. You have made charges in a letter to the Commission, dated 25th September, 1906. The first is--" 1Iy opening the Buna Bar route to the Yodda on false representation by Captain Barton.'' Wha:(.

do you mean by " My opening the Euna Bay route"? -A. The road was, opened by Government. The stotes tefused to use it in the end. I made use of

it first myself. 187 5. Q. What were the "false representations " h1ade by Captain Bart011·?-A. Captain Barton came to the field and held a meeting here. I laid the

m2-tter of the insecurity of the track before him and showed hir:I:- the letter I had received from my agents, Burns, Phil.Ip., and Co., objecting to my using the track. Captam Barton assured me there was not the remotest danger, that everything would be in perfect order and s.afety, that my goods ta be landed at Euna

would be in perfect safety. I had goods landed to the extent of 7 or 8 tons. From those rroods which ·ffere deposited in the Government Stor~ between 3 1 ' ' a.nc 4 tons were stolen. When I came to inquire, I

found that the Governmmt Store was without a ?oot, and open to any native ,rho chose to go into 1t. }fr om1 bovs were bLamed. In anv case m,,

gcods {n:re stole1;, I was solelv i1 nduced t~ Jand those go8ds there on the false representation that the goods would be safe there, .T876. Q. What did. you say (if anything) to Cap­ tam Barton about the Government Store at Euna at that interview, and what did he reply ?-A. I re­ riuest-ed him to allow Mr. l\fonckton to get the natives to erect a private store for me at Euna: and I would:

F. A. Roohfort, 22nd Oot., 1906.

pay for it. He replied, " There is no occasion.

There is plenty of room in the Goyernment Store.'' 1877. Q. Was anything said about risk?-A. o. 1878. Q. ,, ere you absolut ly th~ fir t to use the

track ?-A. I was. 1879. Q. Did not :Mr. Wilson first use the track? -A. He did. He came up once or twice with goods. He came up the second time purely and simply with a boy of mine who was engaged specially to run the track.

1880. Q. The next charge )OU make is-" The Administrator's false .and malicious reports contained in a despatch to His Excellencv the Governor-Gene­ ral over the O'Brien affair." What are those re­

ports you complain of ?-A. I look at Parliamentary Paper, Xo. 28 of 1905, dated 24th August of that year. The statements therein- that I complain of are, first-' ' Roch fort has been a resident in this

Possession for a number of years. He is an excep­ tionally well educated man, and was· a few years ago temporarily employed by Sir William ~IacGregor ili a subordinate position on some inland road mak­ ing and other work behind Port MoresbY. '' I object to this, because I was called bv Sir William :\Iac­

Gregor from a -temporary into :i, permanent position, but condemned the work, and resigned my position with the Government. The next is-" He usually takes the lead in any agitation which may arise.''

I object to this because I

is for the benefit of my fellow men . The third is-­ '' Mr. Roch fort has aspired to be made an Honorary Magistrate for the Peossessioo." This is wilfully and deliberatelv untrue. I have been asked by Mr. Rus­

sell, Mr. Hislop, and Mr. Monckton to allow m\' name to be submitted, and each time I have refused. I am still on the roll of Justices for Queensland,

to the best of my belief, and have sent in my resigna-­ tion two or three times. I also refer to extract num­ ber four, as follows:-" I may state that while

O'Brien was under arrest at the Yodda I ·was re­ peatedly cautioned by Mr. Rochfort, among others, that I was not sufficiently cautious with O'Brien, and that if he got an op:9ortunity he would certain 1 y

murder me. l\Ir. Roch fort was most emphatic in his warning." This is a statement made by Mr.

Monckton. It is absolutely untrue. 1881. Q. The next charge is-" The farcical ap­ pointment of Mr. W . Little to the Legislative Coun­ cil, and the dishonest means employed. '' What have

you to say ?-A .. I refer you to a copy of a letter,

dated 20th January, I906, from myself to the Ad­ ministrator, enclosing a requisition for my consent to be a candidate for representation of the Gira and Yodda fields to the LegislatiYe Cou.ncil or Federal

Parliament. I put this in. The next ' thing was a

letter to me from Mr. Monckton to meet him as an assessor to choose a candidate for the Northern Divi­ sion of Papua. I saw this ,ms a f~rce, .and any

one the Administrator wished be could appoint. l\Ir. Little does not represent the miners of the field. He is a nominee of a Government official. I put in a.

petiticn .against his appointment. I will date it

to-daY. as it bears no date. It was signed a week

ago. It js si~ned by a majority of the miners on the field . At the meetings of the assessors, the oues­ tion of payment of exnenses to Councillors ,Yas kent in the dark. I don't blame l\Ir. ~Ionckton. I don't

think he kn°w anything about the question of na.y-ment. 1882. Q. The next charge is-" The :11011-enga~e-

ment of a medical man in the dual a.pacitv of

:\Iedical Officer and Warde n, as laid out by Sir W. 1 IacGreg0n" ?-A. This is a 'great failure. Sir

,v. 1 facGre~r had arran.rr d for a med;cal man to he s0 engaged for the Gira gold-fields, and lw ;irri,·ed in Port ~for<"sbv. , ut arrangements with the

74

medical man were not come to with Sir William's successor, Sir F. Winter. This neglect to appoint a dual officer is the reason we have a dearth of bon at the present time. The deaths have been, and a~e still, so enormous. I h.:n·e kno,rn deaths of white

men on the Gira at the rate of 150 per cent. per an­ num. I have known three out of a party of four boys die in one week, and a whole party of eight die on the field . These were nati,·e s. We are in good

health here, but the old state of affairs at the Gira prevents our getting bo, s, a thev fear to come. r 88 3. Q. The next charge is against " The gene­ ral :a dministra:tion of the Administrator "?-A. I consider the Arlministrator does not attend to hi.s duties as Administrator in the manner he should.

He should go round and see for himself. He largely depends on his officer's reports as to what is right and what is wrong, and won't listen to an outsider at all. Ko matter what you write, vou con get no

satisfaction. The Rennie affair : by contributing too much tot.he revenue and getting D.T.'s,he wan­ dered off and took to the bush. A part,· was formed to follow him. Mr. Joe O'Brien's party caught hi:, tracks at the 4-mile, and got over the river, but found

no other trace. In the end. the,v came to Kokoda, ,and gave notice to the Warden of bis loss. Rennie had said he was going to Kokoda before he left .

0 'Brien asked the Warden to send out the police to look for the man. Several miners told me at

night that the Warden refused to send out the police. I got up a petition to the A.R. M., Mr. Griffin, ask­ ing him to send out police to search for Rennie, and I produce ::i cony. I received a reply, which is a

mere acknowledgment of the petition . A meeting was at once called of men on the field, and search parties sent out. O'Brien recm-iered Rennie. :rnd hro1-11Iht him into camp. He has s.ince died. When found he was unable to walk.

1884. Q . H o w does this affect the Administra­ tor ?-A. In eYery way. I further complain that

the camps here were robbed daily, a:nd had been for years. At the enrl of 1903 a sick bov of

Inkster's ,Yas speared in bis camp and died. A

Gc1vernment officer was nt Yoclrla store ;1t the time and was notified, but din nothing. This was Mr. .Elliott, A.R.~I. Firearms were almost a weeklv loss. At beginning of 1904 ~Ir . :\Iurphv and bi's

partner lost about £ 1 _::;o in rrold. je wellen·. :rnd

papers. The camps outsi

~rr. Preston ,v::i.s shot in the ba k, and se,·er::i.l of the bovs \Yere shot. We fcrmed a partY and went out, and when w \Yere starting the GoYernmPnt

officer, "\Ir. Walsh, A.R.:\L, ,ms here ,rith his

police, and was told. He remainerl at the Yodd::i. storPs drinhng until drink was refusecl him. r88_,. Q. Thi,,. completes the comnlaints yoa rtfer to?-A. Yes, but I should haYe liked to haYe said somethin~ more in relaticm to them.

1886. (). You 1113.v do so if YOU really think

they are important in bearing on -your charges? ·-A. I won't go am· further. .

r887. O. Have YOJ arnthinrr more to saY in re­ gard to these charges ?-A. _ -o, r.othi!1g more. I let tbP.m go. 1883. Q. Ha Ye YOU any . 11ggestions to make fer the ach·an .ernent of Papua ?-A.. I h::i.Ye. I think th nati,·e labourers should l' allowed to re-. ig n on to their employers if ,ri lling befor the :\Ia.gi . trate at

t l1e t rmination of his scn·i,-e. It i. of the greatest

importance, ,rh 0 ·1 a hi a.ck or ,rhite man i - l e­

fore the Court. that a E 1ropean interpreter should J, engaged. There should be a more simple rrPa.ns nf appr.:il from "\ f agi trates' deci ions to the hi f

Jt,dioiaQ Officer. 'r instance, in example of this tbe < rase 'Of rdr. \V. Bo,y ler, procecc.le<.l against ':ind :a.~.r St~cl at the_ Yodda on the charge of iHegally Bmovmg a _native boy from his home jn Samarai.

e was bailed, went to Samarai for the hearing,

was fined £40> or ten weeks. The fine was paid> an appeal was made, and the conviction quashed but M,:r. ~mv ler got no costs. In the case TF lzztt;n v. f Brll.h:tm, a pe~ty d_ebts case, there was a judgment , r t e pl~mtiff given bv :\It. Bellamy, A.R.M., ,Q..})Out Apnl_, 1905. O'Brien was notified by a document, signed l:,y Mr. Bellamy, that if he did ~o~ pay: he wcmld be imprisoned for six months in (okoda gaol. There should be crreater effort to Gipture and punish the murderers ;f whites in this cou~try than has been the . case heretofore. I sug­ge~t that a firs.t-class medical officer should be ap­{Potnted as Warden for the Northern Division, and ~ciuld sugges~ .a. special tax of, say, rns. or £1 per ) ea~ tci be paid by the employer, so as to insure the services of a first-class man. . . 1882' Tl~c Clzairman.-Do you favour the tax­mg 01. natives ?-A. Yes, in settled districts. A ~mall tax to pay cost of administration, but not to fo1-ce tt:hem to work. MICHAEL BOWLER was sworn and examined, as follows : -1800. Tile Chaz'rman.-Your name?-A. Michael Bowler, miner. I have been off and on at the Yodda since its ope.cing. r 89 T. Q. H a. ve you any matters to pl ace before the Commission ?-A. I have. I was served with a. warrant from Samarai, signed by C. Owen Tu:­ner., for taking a native bov awav; from his home in Samarai. I wa.s se~ed -by a -black policeman. [_ am sure it was a warrant. I ,vas served in the Yodda store, and the case was at once tried there by Mr. Beaver, A .R.M. He adjcurned the case for eight days to Kokoda, and I had to find a security in £20 a:ncl self in _../' 20 to appear. I did appear at the Yodd;i the eighth day, but no one was there to trv the case. I sent a note to Kokoda that I was un~ble to a.ppear at Kokoda, as I had a bad leg. l\fr. Wh1tten advised me to go to Sam­arai and see the thing out, and have done with it. [ went. On 29th April I got to Kokoda. I was there sened with a warrant or a summons to ap­pear in Samarai on the first opportunity, or words to that effect, and bail was ta.ken, and sureties of £20 of l\fr. Whitten and self £20 to enforce that. Three of my boys, were that day subprenaed ::inrl taken to Samarai at Government expense. When I got to Sa.marai on 13th i\fay, the case was heard on 14th or 15th. I was frned £40 or ten weeks' imprisonment. I paid the fine, and I ap­peaied from the conviction. In all, I had to pay £88 6s. 4d. The appeal was heard. and the con­viction quashed. I got £80 back, but no more. I got nothing for my loss cf time . I had five boys here at work, and I had then recovered in the last week 4 ozs. 14 dwts. of gold. I lost four months' work over that ca1se, of myself and my five boYS. I state these facts but I do not know if I h.a,·e anv redress. I think I should _ have . I am well known in New Guinea, and ~vas cine of t he first prospectors who found payable gold in New Guinea. 1892. Q. Would you be agreeable to pay a t~x per boy to p~y the expense of a medical officer or w;-irden ?-A. Yes, a small one, abc1ut 2s . 6d. 1893. Q. Do you believe in taxing the nativ'es? --A. I do. It would make them work and pay something for the cost of administration. The village chief should be h eld respC·!1Sible . I farnur a. hut tax. 1894. Q. Do YOU favour the Government taking over all recruiting ?-A, J do. It would also be

75 Michael Bowler, ~2nd Oct., 1906.

a great reYenue to the country. I wish expressly to st:1te that l haYe ncthing against the officiais here in relation to my case, but I do blame Sam­

a.mi officials.. Last ~ "m-ember I ,ms barred bv

::\lr. Campbell at Samarai from signing on nati,·~ labour .. That was removed when l\lr. Little got to Samara1. What I was debarred from sianina bovs f I l'k b b} oni or u

DANIEL HORAN

was worn and examined, as follows:-1895 .. The Cliairman.- What is your name ?­ A. Darnel Horan. I am a miner and have been

on the Y odda. and Gira fields about' seven years and a-half·. I wish to refer to elective representation :ind tnal by jur.Y. I belie_ve it _is an impossiibility to do any good m New Gumea till we have elective representation. The desires of the officials may be and ~ave been at times diametricall':'.: opposed to

the will of tlhe people. Any administration what­ e,·er will be a failure till co~!ncillors are elected. No~inees or th~se who uphold a non-progressive policy for_ selfish motives will make things worse mstead of better. If an Administrator were to

strike out a policy of his own he would have some of hisi best friends up in arms against him. I mean some of those on the Council or some of the mer­ cantile community. Tlhousands would be here to­

da:y but for _the non-rrogressive policy of the Legis­ lative Council of Papua. There is no man in Papua who can find out what the Council has done for minersi in Papua, bar the road from Buna · Bay

and it is not finislhed yet, so far as I can hear'.

Yodda was) opened as a field in February, .1900, and the Government is ma.king a track now that should have been made five years ago. The late Mr. Armit, R.M., of Tamata, was the first Govern­

ment officer to visit Yodda Valley in February, 1900. He strongly advised the Lieutenant-Governor to make a pack-horse track to the Y odda. He

poin.t~d out t~at it was impossib)e for diggers to pay exorbitant pnces for goods earned by natives. The Government could have got the natives then to make the track asi they do now. The Government did

not do it, and I hon_~stly believe the storekeepers did not want the track, and the Government cared very little what the -digger thought or wanted so long as it pleased the mercantile classesi. I believe that. it was the ~rofit made by storekeepers on the

paymg-off of natives that kept tlhe human. carriers on the road instead of pack horses. From Febru­ ary, 1900, until the middle of 1902, the carriage on goods from Euna to Y_ o?9a ranged from £155

to £200 per ton. From the middle of 1902 until the end of 1903, from £125 to £170. At present the average carriage is about £roo ·per ton. Still the carriage on some light-weight :articlesi is enor­ mous. The Government could easilv have passed a law that pack horses should be substituted for human carriers. They did no t want to do jt. [ 1896. J Ther~. has ~en too :11-uch restriction placed on recrmtmg natives. First, there is the fee of £6

about, and then a guarantee or pav_ the wages down. A month of the boys' time is gone, sometimes two months, before he reaches here, and then probablv his load is gone and he runs a.way and that lose·s more time. And tlhen he may be no good at all.

I think the ,Yhite men should be allowed to recruit their own boys. At present, thev must first get a

recruiting licence to do so. I do not think that

should be. Moreover, the bors know the miners and would recruit with them, 'when they will not with the recruiter: The present method is totallv against the interests of the miner on the Northe~1 gold-fields, and should be altered. [ 1897. J As re-

Daniel Horan, It-2nd Oct., 1906.

76

gards putting a tax on the natires, I do not think

that should be done. The natiYes should be made to work and clear the roads from one -dllag_e to

another in e,·ery district, and that would be a bene­ fit to the country. They could • e compelled to do so by each Magistrate of each district. [1898.J My opin"ion is 1 hat. the Government should recruit the

boys and pay them off. In my opinion the guar­ nntee system putsi tlhe average miner under. the lash of certain storekeepers, because he may not have the money to pay down. It is 11ot a necessary sys­ tem, because I have been here seven years, and have never known a miner not to pay hi boy. [1899.J

In connexion with elective representation, we should ha.Ye jt without class or divisional embargo. The councillors should be elected on tlhe Commonwealth S'enate ·system, otherwise it would give special pri­

vileges to certain persons they do not deserve. I

wish to distinctly state that I have no personal

grievance against any one, but against the syste1:1 I ha.Ye . It is the old Crown colony system, and 1t wants altering. [1900.J I wish to refer to .'the

O'Brien case. .-~Ir. Monckton in his official state­ ment speaks about O'Brien going to Rochfort's and Atkinson's camps, and says O'Brien must !have been on most friendly terms with them. I think the rea­

son O'Brien went there, was because they were in t he first camps on the roa.d, and because M r. R :>ch­ fort was a kind of leading man here and might

take up his case, or do something for !him. At any rate not for the reason Mr . . Monckton S1Uggests . I wish to state I take exception to the official _ reply sent to the Governor-General. We (the mme~) never said a word about the O'Brien affair untJi

the man was outlawed by a notice 'posted by Mr. Griffin, A.R.l\L, a.,t the s1tore, on 18th May, 1905. 1901. Q. When you say "We, th'e ~iners," w1 hom do you mean ?-A. I mean the mmers ·who ac­

tually signed the petition, 23 in n1:1mber. T?ey

were the majority . I do not wish to .g~ mto

O'Brien's affair now it has been settled, an~ it 1s n~t necessary to bring it up further, the Chief J mh­ cial Officer having r:uled that there is !lo 1':-w on the stai:-:..1te-book to uphold the proclamat1on issued by

i\ir . Griffin at thre· Yodda store. I do not think any arrrument is required in favour of trial bf jury .

I ~-ish to st::tte I never met the Chief J udici:il Officer, but haYe confidence in him. It js not because of

amthinrr ::tgainst him I desire it, but it is because su~h a thing is right and absolutely neces,s.ary. The Papuan Council should haYe power to bcrrow money. Also that a sucrar mill should be erected at Buna

Bav, ::tn

h,mdred thousand pounds would do this., .and have a big population at Buna Bay, ~nd many settlers on that part of the ccuntrv takmg up land. .

1902. O. Do :.:_ou tbink there are p::ty':h1e ouant1-ties of timber 1,ere ?-A . I do. There 1s a fortune for anv man starting .a saw-mill at Buna l~ay . There is splendid cedar, pine, and penril cedar, silky oak,

and a Jot of o+her hard-wood timber, which I do not know the name- of, and is strange to me. I

"·ish 10 say a 0·1t the Buna-Yodc1a tram line I sUP.;­ ;\"<='S.tec1, that it is OYer ]e,·e) C'Olllltry, which Wou]d

re(Jnin"' onh· cuh-erts and httle €'he clone to make it ftt for the construrtio1 of such a lir.e . It may

be nos. ·11le that the Administration may not haYe ha/ sufficient money to c:urv out a progressi,·e policv .. ml uphold a. brgc 1.umber of stations., Yhirh :i.re no\\· round the coast. I think that some f th"'

stations are unncces6ary. I think .a larg nurnh r

round these stations are fr

th ,. did hdore \\·hit 0 men r:-une. ~ ~ o station

~hnt11d hf' fnrmecl wbcr no "·bit<' prirnte sett] rs

are. This ,,·ould free officers for better work in

uch outlying di tricts as this i ..

FRANCI S AUG TL E ROCHFORT

made a further statement, as follows :-1903. l\1y eYidence given before you on the z~nd inst. would be ver v incomplete without an express10n from me of my high e timation of the gentleman

who at present occupies the po ition of Chief J udi­ cial Office r. His unfailing courtesy and strong

sense of justice cannot but command the highest re­ spe~t and esteem of the "·hole of the residents of tl~e Po session.

TWENTIETH DAY.

TUESDAY, 23RD OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE STORE OF ~ lESSRS. WHITTEN BRos., YooDA. )

P re sent :

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K . 11ACKAY, C.B., M.L. C. (Chairman) _ ; l\J r. Justice C . E. H erbert.

MAR K EOYAL

,ras s,rorn and ,examined, as foll ows :-1904. The Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. :\ I ark Royal. I am a d igger , and have been five

years at the Y odda. - 1905. Q. Have you any suggesli?n you ,rnultl

like to make ?-A. Yes. I suggest m cases " ·here

other gold-fields break out the qover?me~t con-8truct a road right away, connectrng 1t with the

nearest harbor on the sea.-board, and give all the police protection possible. Also that tl1e pri­

soners at Samarai and such places be placed on

the roads to rut them out ; it would be n1ore eco­ nomica 1 fo~ the country . I do not fa your t"he plac­ ing of a tax upon the free nafo·es, but that th2y

be compelled to keep the Government tracks open, and to cut other tracks as reci uired to open up the ountry for prospectors. 1906. Q. As a digger, do you favour the Gm·em­

merit taking over the whole of the native Jabour r ruiting ?-A. I do.

I 90 7. Q . Do you favour the appointment of a

good mineralogist and a few good prospectors to go out ahead of the miners ?-A. Yes; but I do not know of any mineralogist having opened a fi ld in Aus­ trnlia. He would, however, per11aps be able to

iclentih mi.nera1s unknown to the prospector. H e should · be a good man, specially qualifi d as a

leader. 1908. Q. Are there any possibilities for dredging in this countr · ?-.4.. I do not knew. Therf"

arf' none witbi~ a f e,Y miles of this distri t. I

think the Government should ai d in putting down a. shaft through the conglomeration ~xisting he-re

to the true bottom to prove it. 1909. 0. Do you rnnsi

ha · L~n made fit for hor. tr1.ffir ,:ear. ago. lt

would haH~ redur d th cost of liYin ~ con. idPr:i.hh·, and a11m ·eel the men to go and ha ,·e ::t look into otit­ si r1 countr v. r910. o.· Ar(' yon in fa.your of {']ertiw· rrprCS('t1·

tation nnrl tri~ 1 h)· jur~ ? - .. l am. mo. t d id di"-

77

DANIEL HORAN

\\·as further examined, as follmvs: ·--19 r 1. Q. You wish to 11and in a statement adu­ ing to your evidence of yesterday ?-A. Yes; I

band in this statement to supplement my e,·idenc,:: From the mouth of t11.e :\fambare Riwr to the G1rn gold-fieid is1 in my opinion, only about 25 or 30

miles, but no track has IJeen cut from the coast to

the gold-field in order to gi ':e the diggers and their earners a chance to ,ralk up and down. They ha\"e still to pay their fares and tl:ie carriage on good5

up and do,rn the ri,·er, about 60 miles, to

1'amata, and the1 are nearly as far away from the gold-field, about 20 miles. Before the Bm:a B'.ly track was made we had to go nearly 60 miles up

the Kumusi Ri\'er, thence about 60 or 65 miles to the Yodda. The track from Buna Bay to the

Youda is about 70 niiles. - Therefore Euna Bay is as near as Bogi, a much better track, and the riYer trouble is sawd. 1912. (2) Re the p eti-ion against the appoint­

ment of ~Ir. Little, 1 merely ,ris :i to state Uiat. ,re

must believe that Mr. Ionckton called the meeting of assessors in good faith. W,e cannot pro-re o~her­ wise, anyhow; but that does not alter the fact that l'lfr. Little was appointed then, becaµse we haye the

Prime 1\Iinister's statement to that effect. 1913. (3) I stroDgly objec~ to the revenue co1'.­ tributed bv the diggers bemg spent on expen­

mental fa{ms. We want an hospital, tracks tG

the gold-fields, and a little more consideration than we haYe hitherto receiYed first. . .

1914. (4) It has bee? !5'aid that th~ popula:10;: !~ too small to grant electi~e represem3:t~on, but d10,L ~s the strongest argument m favour of it, because the unprogressive policy of the Papl].an Government dur­ in(< the past eight years has retarded progres~ and kept thousands of people out of the country. 'I her1}·

fore we want a chanrre, which can only be brought abo~t bv the elected ~epresentatives of the people. In conclusion, I wish you, gentleman,. bon voya,?c to Port··· 1\Ioresby, and should you an-ive there rn good health, vou have establisl~ed. a r~ord, and I

hope you will, and that your miss10n will be a suc-cess. 'd

1g15. Tlze Clzairman.-D.o you cons1 E:r an_ e~-port trade could be started m _ hardwood timbeis m Papua ?-A. Yes; there would be n

Mambare, and Muse the timber could be rafted without trouble to the coast. . .

6 Q Do you think it would De a sound bus1- 191 . . . d ~ess proposition· for the. Government to sen an

ex ert to report on the l.tmbers of Papua ?-A. I

h·o~esth beJieye that the result of that would be a very fo1e thing for Papua,.

TWENTY-F~RST DAY ..

WED_ ESDAY, 31sT OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERNMENT STATION AT KAGI.)

Present:

C. A. W. Monckton, 31st Oct., 190G .

. 1918. Q. You have already made . a statement before the Commiss.ioJ11 at Bw1a Ba, ; 1s that state­ ment correct: ?-.J. Yes. 1919. ,1lr . Hcrbert.-"\Vhat ,rer:; ~he prin~ary oi!­

jects of your trip to ~iount .Al~rt Ed\\·ard 111 _4.pnl and june?- A. Forgeograplucal purposes, and rn mappmg the Aikora l'-iver and golu-fteld,. and. as~er­ taimn o- the localities of the tribes roul)lng 111 U,c

vicinit~· of the Aikor.:1 miners' camps. 1920. Q. Were yo'.l successful ?- A. Yes. _ .

1921. (,!_. Hau your journey any_ other ce11d1cial result ?-A. I mis able to form an idea as to ,vhere the Waria R iYer headed, and, in addition, proYed to my satisfaction th~t the new find _i~ in this terri­

tory. I also ascert.amed the probabillty of a route for a road to the vVaria frJm "\fount Yule, and l)os­ sibly joining the Sacred Heart ~Iiss.ion-road. I :dso discovered the existence of \l' ell-deiined quartz reefs on ~fount Albert Edward.

1922. Q. We have been informed that certain wire ropes and boys' huts promised by the Administrator have not Leen provided in the Gira district.--Is that so ?-A. ~o. The ropes have l.Jeen provided. One has been in positiorn for a.bout eighteen months. The other rope proved to be unnecessary. As to the

Loys,' huts, they \Yere not built, though ordered by the Administrator, owing to the circumstance~ th~t thev 1rnuld become seats c,f infection for ben-ben. S0~1e then existing had already been burnt down by my orders, or on the initiative of the miners them­

seh·es. 1923. Q. Did you report }Our actio111 to the A

entially in another report dealin1g with beri­

beri, and suggesting legislation on the sub

ject. 1924. Q. Did you inform the miners why huts were net built?-A. Yes, verbally, and most of them agreed with me.

1925. Q. Have you any settled pLm as to a road to the Waria should such become neces_sary ?-A. Not yet, but I am under ins,tructions to proceed to the W aria and report after my present engagement

with the Commission. 1926. Q. What Government-cut tracks exist in the Northern Division besides the Buna-Yodda-road ?­ A. Kumusi crossing to Tarnata (connecting Gira and Yodda Gold-fields), Tamata to Gira, and a less

defi ned track from Tama.ta to the lower Gira, ·which is now being use d by the W aria prospecting expedi­ tion. 19 2 7. Q. What is the distance from Mam bare

Beach to Gira by river arud land as us,ed now ?-A .. Forty miles Ly ,rater and lo miles by land. 1928. Q. Is there a practicable land route by

which a l.Jridle track could be made to shorten the distance ?-A. Yes, .a. route of about 30 miles, to join with Tama.ta, making a total distance by land of 50 miles. The track would be very ex­

pensi\'e to make, owing to swamps, and expensivP to maintair. in addition. That route could not com-pete as to cost of carriage with the present route. 1929. Q. Referring to the Buna-Ycdda-road. is there .a safe 'ford for packs across the Kumusi ?-A. Yes, exc pt under abnormal conditions, owing to temporary floods, about half-a-mile below the present crossing.

Colonel the Honor:1.ble J. A. K. MACKAY, M.L.C. (Chairman);

1930. Q. Do you think that road is now ftt

for mule or horse packs, ?-A. res, with the ex-

C. }3.' cept1on of the Divide, and, possibly, a few culverts

'Mr. Justice C. E. H erbert.

CHARLES ARTHUR WIIIT~[ORE MONCKTON

d f the examined. as follows : - was sworn an ur r 19 r ". The C IL airman .- What is your name ?-A. ( ,. .. 1 ,1 ·

1

Arthur Whitmore Monckton. ,. i"111 es

and .a slight deviation at the Rocky to g ·t a ford.

1931. Q. What would b<.> the co. t to make the

Di\·id0 traf·k? A. Approximat ·ly, £300. 19.32. Q. How long "ould it tak to construct?-' .. A .. About two months. 1·933. Q. In )Out opinion, do the Yodda sfcre~ keepers wish to use pack animals ?-A. No.

C. A. W. lfouokton, 31st Oot., 1906.

1934. Q. Why? - A. Because the pres~nt

reason for keeping up prices woulcl ceas~ to exist. 1935.

taining them ?-A. I think it merely an excuse.

193b.

culties of the Divide. It is but recently that ,re

have found that the Divide is the best practicable route. The construction of the road over the Di,·icle has not been hurried, but I have informed the store­ keepers on several occasions that or: six weeks

1

notice of their intention to put horses or mules on the track we would complete the road over the

Divide. 1937. Q. Are natives in any parts of this Divi­ sion sufficiently under corntrol to compel them to keep native tracks clear ?-A. Yes ..

1938. Q. Is this being done ?-Jl. No. 1939. Q. Trhy not ?-A. They are suffici ently clear for police and native purposes, and no one else uses them.

1940. Q. Are these natiYes bei11g used on Gm·en1-ment roads ?-A. Ye3. 1941. Q. Extensively ?-A. Yes, most extensively.

1942., Q. Could not the upkeep of the Yodda Valley-road be almost solely placed in th e hands, of the natives along its route ?-t. Yes, excepting technical work, such as 1ridges.

1943. Q. Is not that road of great assistance to the Governmer:t in preserving order among natives in its vicinity ?-A. Yes. 1944. Q. And so confers a benefit upon the natives themselves, who are numerous ?-A. Yes.

1945. Q. Would it not be fair, therefore, to allot sections, of the road to e.a,ch: village for upkeep ?-A. Yes, provided payment were made for services rendered.

1946.: Q. Do you net consider the safety con­ ferred by Government upon natives sufficient recom­ pense for the work ?-A. Yes, but I do not suppose the native does.

1947. Q. lni the event of its being decided to tax the natives, the tax might be remitted for such ser­ vices ?-i i... Yes, assuming that there is a tax (which I have already stated I do not favour), it would be fair to remit it.

1948. Q. Might such a scheme of, allotment be generally applied to all Government wads after con­ struction with advantage to Governme1~t and native a.like in this Divi sion ?-A. Yes,, where the vicinity

of the road is fairly thitkl v JX)pulated. 1949. Q. Have you seen -_ Ir. Meek's letter to the Cooktown !ndepmdmt _of 12th June last ?-ll. Yes. 1950. Q. Are the statemer:ts in that letter cor­

rect ?-A. No. 1951. Q. In what particulars ?-A. He states that I took to )fount Albert Edward the whole of the available police in this district, from fifteen to

twentv in number. I took onl v mv usual personal escort- of ten men, and did not ir:-ter'fere with the District police. The ten men I took were recruits. I took no men from Buna Bay. There is no station there. The obiects of my expedition were not those Mr. :.\leek states, but for the purposes I have

already explair:ed in my evidence. He states that there are no natives on the Mount. That is incor­ rect. His statement that the police were engaged to round up carriers is incorrect. The carriers were volunteers. He states that the murder near Kokoda was committed by natives of Kokoda \'illage. That is r:ot so. It was committed by Ausembo natives, one of whom is now committed .and in gaol, the other of whom is not yet apprehended. He stales,

with refcrcnc to the murder of his other boy on the

78

same date, that he was "killed by natives of Isurava and Gioora, wh0 lately sent me a long the forearm freshly cooked. The flesh was eatec. off, but the sinews 1Yere fresh on it. lt ,ras sent, l presume, so that I should have no doul>t as to the boy· s fate. ·' As a fact, this boy was not killed lJy nati\'es of

Isurava or Gioora, but by one man of Bivi viilage, Biagi tribe, a qmte distinct people. The bone re­ ferred to was not sent to Mr. i\leek 1 but was fourd by the police. There is no evidence that the bone has any connexion with the murdered boy. )Ir.

_\'1eek says, " I stated that if the Assistant R esident :.\Iagistrate did not come to hold ar. inquiry I would arni my boys and go up to lsmava to remove my property, and in the event of local nati,·es making an attack, ifi some of them were hurt I should not consider the fault would rest with me after the

notice I gave him.n I may state that in a prior let­ ter, ur.dated, WTitten by :Mr. Meek to the Assistant Resident Magistra.te, he says 1 '' l may state that, in the event of the Ismava going unpunished I will certainly do my very best to make trouble in Aus­ tralia as to the existing state of aff .airs in T ew

Guinea, and r.ot particularly relating to the above murders, per medium of the press and Federal members. The boy murdered by the Ismava natives was named Dibine. 1 ' I wish to draw particular

attention to the fact that Mr. Meek, in those letters, pressed Mr. Beaver to punish the lsmava natives, an er:tirely innocent tribe. He further says, " The n atives of Sisoleta, on the Buna-road, are rising, and waylaid two of Clunas and Clark's boys." That is absolutely untrue. He further says, "The natives of Aikora and Gira .are looting the camps of whites

and roamir:g about in large mobs in war-paint and feathers, yet no protection is offered white settlers." The Aikora and Gira are in the Tamata District 2 a portion of the country which Mr. Meek has never

visited, and it was partly to locate hostile tribes

and discover a method of, dealing with them that the Albert Edward expedition was made ar..d the coun­ try mapped by me, and on my return an officer, with a patrol, was despatched to that district with

the information I obtained, and has been since con­ tir:uously there. The statement that the Yodda.-road ends at K.oko_ da is incorrect, but as Mr. Meek has not seen . cither the road or the gold-field I can

acquit him of intentionally telling an untruth. The wire rope at the Kumusi has never carried away. A boy was killed there by careless! y tryir:g to catch hold of the traveller whilst in moti0n. When that .accident occurred-10th February, 1906-1\Ir. :.\Ieek

was away from the Kumusi three days' journey in the mountains. The Government Store at Buna Bay is an iror: building. When locked down the key is kept at Messrs. Clunas and Clark's store, in cus­ todv of tlut firm. No Government tobacco has been mis;ed from this store. Mr. Meek says, "In nine­ teen cases out of twenty the (ver.erea.l) disease is caused by the native police, as every old resident

of British Tew Guinea knows.'' This is a delibe­ rate falsehood. Within the last twelve months, out of 54 native constables in this Division, r:ot one case of venereal disease has occurred. There is a regu­ lar inspection of the Armed N atfre Constabulary in this Division. Finally, I wish to state that, during the last twelve moeths, there has been no act of

aggression committed by natives of the Kokoda District of this Division against Europeans or their employes other than those against Mr. :\1eek's two boys.

1952. Q. H.a.ve you ever asked l\Ir. F. A. Roch­ fort to allow you to submit his name for appoint­ ment to th lionorary magistrac ' of this, T rritor ·? -A. Most decidedlv not.

1953. Q. Referring to 'Brien's case, )OU made a statt'ment in ) our report to His Excell ncy, dated

30th l\I.a.y, 19051 and which is included in Parli1~ mentary 1-'aper .Ko. 28, to the effect that "While O'Brien ·was w1der arrest at the Yodda I was re­ peatedly cautioned, b)'.' :\Ir. Rochf?rt am'ong others, that I w_as not sufficiently cautious with O'Brien,

and that if he got an opportunity he would certainly n:urder 1:1e. ,, l\Ir. Rochfort was most empb.atic i_ n his warnmg. Is. that statement correct ?-t-1. Yes. 1954. Q. What efforts. were made in this Division

to reccrver the escaped prisoner O'Brien ?-A. Ac­ tion was taken as set out by Mr. Griffin in his evi­ dence, vide Parliamentary Paper, :\"o. 28, page y. I also caused notification to be sent to Port ::\Ioresby

and Samarai. Patrols were placed on all tracks

and roads. The Tamata office was also instructecl to watch tracks by means of patrols. The Com­

m::mdant of Armed N.ative Constabulary was notified and instructions given him. The Commander of the Merrie England was also advised and instructed to watch mouths of Opi and Kumus,i Rivers, and

l.,oard all shipping. A reward was offered to the

natives for O'Brien alive, or for information leau­ ing to his capture. 1955. Q. Do you know if .anything was done to press the inquiry-and search outside the Territory? -A. I do not.

r956. Q. Were you present when a deputation (of whom Mr. F. A. Rochfort was. one)J waited upon His Excellency regarding the use of the Y odcb. Val~ey-road ?-A. Yes.\

1957. Q. What protection was offered by the Ad­ ministrator to persons first using that road ?-A. That stores landed at Buna might Le placed in the Government Store, where they would be safe against

robbery by local natives. That gwds or carriers

on the track would be safe from robbery or attack by natives. .

19 5 8. Q. Was the B una store then without a door? --A. Yes; it was :-1. n.a.tive building .. 1959. Q. Was, it open to .any native who chose_ to go into it ?-A. Ko. It was guarded by natiYe

police. 1960. Q. Did Mr. Rochfort depos.it goods in the Buna store subsequently to the deputation ?-A. Yes. ,

1

1961. Q. Were any of his goods st?,len ?-.A. x es. 196 2: Q. Was there any prosecution agamst the offende.rs ?_..A. Yes. 19 63. Q. Who were thev, and what was, the re­ sult ?-A. They were Mr. Rochfort's ow~ indentured boys, .and they were convicted upon their own con­

fession. t 964. Q. Were the goods stolen out of the store?~ A. No; I think not. They were removed by Mr.

Rochfort's own employes, under the charge of a Solomon Islander; and a Port Moresl,y bciy, who were leaders of his, boys, who were known to the constable in c-harge, and who were regularh· sent

hv Rochfort for goods to the store. The Port

Moresbv boy was prosecuted with 24 or 25, others, and all were convicted. Once R<;>c?tort s boys

. d t the store the respons1b1htv of the apoeare a · · f h · police as to his goods ceased until a ter t ell' departure. Neither the Government noir any other · 1 tores from Buna stor,e. private owner ost anv s - . . I 96 S. Q. Was there a1;y guarant~ g1v~n agams.t loss of stores owing to pnvate owners earners pecu-lations alon~g the road ?-A. No. . . 1966. Q. Are you likely to -~et an apph~at10n for a liquor licence .a.t the Wana ?-A. I ha,e ~l­ready been applied to for one. I ca~not ~r~nt it, . 1 1 _ . " e tl'P numhp,· of lH'c> nf'P:-; in tlw as 1t wou c rncrP::i . .., , Territory . . 1 _ 1 - f tl J , - 6.., Q What is th e pract1ca resu t o 1P a,, 1~ 1: ·tl s~le of intoxicating liri_uur in 11w· rTegu _a.trng? 1Ae .It ])laces. - th; whole liquor trnrk o f erntory. - · · 1· d the country in the hands of present icensces, an

79 C . . \.. W. Monckton, 31st Oct., 1906.

so creates ,1 monopoly which extends to wholesale and retail sales.. I believe about twenty licences exist in the whole Territory, of which nine are in the hands of three firms.

1968. Q. What, in your opinion, is likely to

happen C'll the W aria if a. licence is not gr.anted or remO\·ed there ?-.4.. Illi :::-it sale of liquor, probably smuggled from German :\" ew Guinea. The cost of \d1isky at Buna Bay is 7s. In German New Guinea it is from is. to Is. 6d. If licences are not granted, the s.tores and miners will get it from German Terri­ tory. lf the stores, had a licence they would cer­ tainly watch their own interests, a.nd incidentally, therefore, chat of the GoYernment.

1969. Q. Can you give any information as to the reduction of cost of stores at the Y odda since the Yodda Valley-road has been constructed ?-A. Yes; in some staple articles,. Rice cost one ounce of

gc.Jd (£3 1 zs . 6d.) _per 50 lb. mat, and even then at times unprocurable. Upon the road nearing

completion, the price commenced falling, and now stands at 30s. Meat cost 36s. per dozen 1-ll.,. tins. It now sells at 18s. per dozen. 1970. Q. What alteration has, it made in cost of carriage ?-A. Carriage was £5 for a 50-lb. load.

It is now £1 for the same weight. These pr,ices a.re those ,rhicb the storekeepers charge to cus­ tomers.

TWENTY-SECOND DAY.

THURSDAY, 8TH NOVEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, PORT MORESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M. _ L. C. (Chairman); · W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

JAMES GRANT FOWLER

was sworn and examined, as follows :-197T. T!te Cltairman.-What is your name?­ A. James Grant Fowler. I have been eighf· years in :Xew Guinea, sandalwood getting, rubber get­ ting, and trading generally.

1972. Q. You have some matters you wish to place before the Commission? - A. ·People have been somewhat reluctant in corning :forward, on account of not knowing exactly how the Commis­ sion would affo1:a them protection after leaving the

Possession. 1973. Q. Of course, the Commission gives the fullest protection in their pmrer; but ,ou know if a man says a thing which is deliberat~ly a lie,' he :11-a y get into _trouble. As far as the Co~mission

1s concerned, 1f a man states what he believes to

be the truth, he is perfectly safe ?-A. In regard

to the ~andalwood industry. Immediately after the Ordmance No. 11 of 1903 was publi's hed, I wrote pointing out the difficulties in connexion with clause 7. If the timber was felled at t he com­

mencement of fhe wet season, it would be impos­ sible to rnt it out within the three months pre­

srr ibed b\ thf' ordinance. I r ceiYed no sati sfac­ t i'-1 11 in n'g'ird to that. I did receiH' a i-eply to

my lNtr r , hut the Government could not see their w~y clPar t_o amend thf ordinance. In Ma), 1904, I was cuttmg timber m the Nara 01strict. ~lr.

J. G. Fowler, 8th O"V., 1906.

Ballantine came info the district, and Yisited camp of ~Ir. Hide. On the r9th :;\la) I

cei,·eJ a letter from :.\lr. Baliantirn.,, who was sist'lnt Resident ~Iagistratc, to thi's effect:

the signed it with the xception of ~Ir. Hid ~ who

re- bought the timber. As- r98r. 1'/1c Chairmmz. - Then YOU receired no

" Th1rt) - .ix sandaJwcod trees in t.he Epa district seized by the Go ·ernment, anu now offered for

sale. 'Tender to be sent b,· bearer, adclresse.J to

me, on board the Lokollu:" I replied:--·'· 1 m­

possibl • to tender for timber t.hat I hoxe 11eYcr

se~n. If , ou wi1C allow me Lme to inspect the

same, and· a3certain the amount of wood likelv to 'be gGi: from these treL'S, the distance to 1Y.~ :~1.,n­ Y<:} cl, &c., I shall L~ very glad to make you an

offer." On the. fol10,1ing day I received a reply

that '' the timber lus new been sold." I after­

,rnn1s found out that this timber was my own.

I wrote to Judge Robinson, \VhO was then

Acting Administrator, pointing out to him thz;t I had thirty :.\fa1 ipoa Lo: s signed on, and those bo.1 s h.::td deserted. I had bacl to go away and recruit

more Loys, as the Gowrnrnent bad failed to cap­ ture mine: Also that it ,Ya.s the wet season:. I

complained that· I could not cut up the timber in

the prescribed time, ;:aid that :.\Ir. Ballantine was discourteous, in my opinion, to say the least of it, in not telling me that it was my own timbt~r he

was off eri'ng to me. r974. Diel Mr. Ballantiine know that it was your own timLer ?-A. He must have known, because it had my brand on it, acco!d:ng to tne regulat10:1.

I recei,·e d a. letter from J udgc Robinson, dated the 1st June, r904, which I produce. ?dr. Hide, the

s.andahrnod getter, told me that he purchased the timlJ 2r for £5. In my opinion, it was " ·orth :f6o

on tbe spot. A petition ,ms ~.ent in by the sandal­ ,rnod getters to the Government protesting against tbe manner in which the seized timber had been sold, asking that in future all timber Eihould be

ad,·ertised, and ever'y'body have an opportunity of tendering for it. I ,Y as as::-.med this ,Y C,l1 ic1 lie

don'...:. Up to the present Lttk or n::> effort b:~s

been made bv the G0Yernn1Pnt to ret:un the de­ serters to me; and there has ·,1evcr been a c~pture. In connexion with the ordinance the ,rnrds " may be seized" occur. That ordinance is very severe

on sandalwood getters.. ,¥hen wood was plen­

tiful t.he licence fee was £2 per annum. 1-ow it

is £ro.

I 97 5. Q. Did \Jr. Ballantine call on you after

you receiYed that letter from Judge Robinson?­ :Li. He came to the district, but never called on

me. I saw him afterwards in his office. He sai

he was sorry, and that he d;,a not know the ,yoocl he had seized was mine until he had received the letter from Judge Robinson, who had sent him a copy of the correspondence with me. .

1976. JI.fr. Herbert. - How was the timber

branded ?-.1. It was branded " F," and t.he date on which it was cut. 197 7. Q. Is that a registered brand ?-A. "X one of the brands are registered.

r978. i11r. Okeden.~What does the regulation say ?--A. It says that the brand must be on the

timb r, with the initials of the person and the date it was ~lled, and if the timber is lying on the'

ground three months after it was frlled it may be seized by the Government. That timber had been lying on t.he ground for oYcr three months. in con­ senuence of the ,yet season.

r979. Tlte Cltairman.-Is there any other san-dalwcod trader who us s the same initial as YOU? -A. ~o. r980. 111r. Okeden.-Was there any nth 'l' p r. r,,1 in that 'disttict to whom Mr. Ballantine coul

c-atisfaction ,rith reganl to this matter ?-.1. ~·one, Ul') ond what :\Ir. Jiallanti"e himself . aid to me. 1982. Jlr. Ukcdc11.- ,-,,,~as an\' action tak n l., · you to get your lJoys Gack ?- A.'. y ·e . I re1 orte;J

immediately to :\Ir. Russell, the ~\.ssistant I1esid nt -:.\Iagistratc. ?\Ir. },nglish, the .Assist., nt Pe ident :.\(agistrate, told me on board the Lokolm, a.t l>o­ kama, .immediately after the Goaribari incident,

that he had """'n to 1\faipoa, and that he could

h1Ye capi:ured tlY" d 'Serters if he had Leen in­

st.ructccl to do so. That is all I haYe to sa, rn

connexion with that matt.er. ,

I9?.3· T ltc C ltairmau. - Ha Ye you anything to sa.y : ;1 rC'gard to the administration of lan<.ls ?­ A . ' es. 'I\rn rr1ontbs ago I told th . Assistant

R csident. ::\[agjstrate. at Hall Sound, Dr. St.rong, that I mslwd to take up some land, and described the place to him. He referred me to the owners

f the land. I sa"· them. They ,rnuld not sell.

There ,,;,as plenty of land there that, in my opinion, would not be cult: \·ated by them for generations. I had to inquire from the nati\·es elsewhere as to

whether the·, would sell. WhY should I haYe to

go tn the natives and barter ":ith them personally as a person desiring to settle? 1984. Q. What did you require this land for?­ A .. Agricultural purposes. I am of opinion that

compulsory resumntion of land is \'ery desirable. In connexion "< th the rubber indust;y, previous to :.\Ir. Atlee Runes Yisit the Government stopped the rubber industr{. I " ·as a member of the depu­

tation that ,raite

de5;truction of the tr es if it was re-opened. It was afterwards re-opened. W then found that the

rour:itry was over-run by alien As:a.tics, who cut (1mm the trees and tapped them on the ground. I reported the maiter to the Gm·ernment, and the

Guernment closed the industry again to ,·erybodY for a close season. I maintain _that it was po3sible for an energct:c officer in a. district to capture the culprits and punish them. I am referring to the

~ ara· district, in the Western Central Diviision.

r985. ·Q. Were none of these men captured and · punished ?-A. No. The coloured men cut down the trees when the :industry ,ms re-op ned, but dill n_ot clo it "·hen it \\·as closed. It was re-opened,

1 thir-k, oril the first of this month. I "-rote t :) the

GO\·ernment fourteen d:i, s ago, and suggested that a licence-fee of, s;1y, £2 per annum should be

charged for the right to tap the rubber trees. I

bel ien~ the mattPr is bdore the Gov0 rnm nt at pre­ sent. TlwsP Asiatics h.:1.re practicall · heen re pon­ siblc for the state of the sandalwood jndu trr, and fer a grc>at numl'er of rubber tree ,Yhich are TIOW

lying dead in the bu b. In connexion ,vjth the

orclin.:mce, relating to the planting of cocoanuts b~· nativ . it has been prarticallY ignored . ince I

haYe Leen in the countrr. I ~m . p aking of the

vVestern f'c 1tral Divi ioa, "·here I han~ been work­ ing, anrJ ,rhich is undrr Dr. Stro g.

198(1 . (J. In that connexion. b.Y' 11[1.ti,·~ tracl· ht· t·:i h·pt op<' 1 i11 ih.1.t (li;e;1rict ?...-. 1. f n th~ time

of ;:011" of tl " .\ ·si t:u-t 11 !--icb1t . ...i:trat . th

rovls m -·;:-' i1 <···die.it r.onditio:1. hut th'\ are nO\Y bl r·n-11" i·1 a \ ·· I ~d :!ate. .'in e ti ' Cnm11i. icn

;11Ti\l·d, rnc>'t pf th' G, trn11,· :: ffr'"t ·: h ,·, lt·en

\ '''L\ c··1p ~(·:;c. 'l\rn \l ar· :1go tlw rl'.;irle11t: of tlh·

c, .. ·ir,1 1 Di,i;ic,ll ~-·nt al •tition ll th n 'I :1rtm.nt

,~f 1 ,: ~·t rn, l ~' ffo i ··.:. a kinJ for a Con .. 1i ,sion. and

c, r ·1ir, (~c :ira' le ref •·m 1t w~ men 1' a know­

ledperl. ""'opy of that pt>titio,1 ''"- ; al ·o ent to

C:apta1n Barton. 1n regard to European won ~11 takrng native nurse girlh to Australia, 1 ma) 5J.)'

tnat u1e w 1v_es. ot m1ssionanes ha, e that pnnlegt;. ;:,ome Ume _ago my wne was senously 111, and 1iad a young c1111u in ner arms. I asked for permission to take a nurse guL to Australia. 'fhe request ,ms

re±usect. T11e c.1.pplica,t1on was actdressee1 to t11e Kes1ctent :r 1agistrace, 1 understand, l\lr. Bramell, and was maue dunng the last fifteen months. 1967. l ~l r. H croerc.-tlave the missionaries the excfus1 .. e privilege ot takmg nurse girls to Austra­ lia :'~ A. i. unae1:,tand so. At any rate, the per­

nuss1011 was rel used co me, and no reason g1Yen. ~imply the} coule1 not grant the request. . 198(). T!te Chairman.-Had you pointed out the cucumstance::; ?--A . .L\a, simply asK.ed that she . mjgl1t 1Jt permitted to take tne nurse girl. 1n re­

gard to non-oitH.:iJ.l representation on tt1e Lecrisla­ nve Council for this part, I wish to point out° that three non-official members have been appointed by His Excellency from all the other Divisions. The Central Division bas, 1 understand, a population ot

192 whites, the largest population of any Division, and has no non-otncial representation. The Wes­ tern lJivision also has no representation. ln ccn­ nexion with the bird shooting industry, I am of

opinion that there were no grounds. for closing that industry. Like most industries in connexion with which legislation is passed, the Government officials who regula.te them have not an intimate knowledge of the industries. With reference to the taxing

of natives, l would suggest that they be taxed at

±rom 2s. 6d. to 4s. or 5s. per annum.

1989. Q . . Do you mean the natives who are really under Government control ?-;-A. Yes, and they would be gradually increased as more came under control. Linder the present system of administra­ tion the y are becommg lazy and more impudent every clay. In the past sufficient encouragement has

not been given to the prospecting for gold and

other minerals. I would suggest a prospecting vote. 1990. Q. Do you think it will be in the interests of the min,ing industry if a .competent min~ralogist and geologist vvere sent to Pap~a and given a small party of practical diggers for the purpose of ex­ ploring the countryi?- A. It would be an excellent idea. l would also advocate an expert in tropical

agriculture ueing sent here. 199 r. Q. Do you think there is sufficient timber 0£ a marketable character in New Guinea to en­ able a trade being opened up ?--... 4. Yes.

1992. Q. Would it be a wise thing to send o.ver a timber expert to examine and report upon the tim­ bers of Kew Guinea ?-A. Yes, I think that should have been done long ago.

1993. Q. Do .you speak with some knmyledge of hardwoods ?- -A. I haYe been constantly 111 the bush for the last eight years.

1994. Q. D o ) ou think it ~vould be adYis~ble

in the interests of the white s,ettlers and the natives for the Government to take over the recruiting of native labour ?-A. Yes. r995. Q. For the time being, _are you .satisfi ~d

with the existent nominee sfstem 111 connexion with the Leo·islative Council ?- A. J\o, I am not. I

think it° is a bad system. I would advocate elerti,,e representation by postal rnt~n~. . .

1996. Q. What is your op1~1on 111 regar? _to _tn~l by jury ?- A. l am strongly in favou: of 1t 1f 1t

is practicable. Ther,~ ,n:mld b~ no difficulty here in Port :.loresby or 111 Samara1. I~ other places

at the present time, there is a do~bt m my mmd. 1997. (). Are the missionan~s favorabl e to

,rhite settlement ?- A. I do not thmk the): are. 199~:L Q. Would it . be helpful to ,Yl:1te ~ettle­ ment if the natives were taught English 111 all

nussiana.ry schools ?-A. Yes. F.14262.-F

i ,. a. fow1•!J . 8th No,, 1 19ou.

1999. Q. ts the present Admin.istriation doing \\'11ac it ~an to ±oster white settlement 111 J.', ew

1.J Lili.ear-A. Decidedly not,

2000. 1/Jr. lierbert.-On what grounJs have you formed tnat opmion :'-A. B'y reason of the inror­ manon 1 nare aneady . given. 1 would have taken up 1and long ago I.Jut rnr t11e difticulty i know other vc:op1e nan:: nau rn gettrng land.

2001. J ' /te Uwinnau.-Do you think that white settlers w1li e1·er be imiuced to come to 1:'apua un­ less tne Go\'ernment is w a position to otter land ac once anu w1tnout the aelays wnich at present exiM ,-li. Lrness LBe Government · did that the people would be very foolish to come. It is only rn rne hope that this Commission would effect re-101ms t11ac 1 have made an application for -500 acres or land.

WILLIAM rmwrn JOHNSON BUCHANAN ,ms sworn anc.l examined, as f ollmvs :-2002. T!te Clzairman.-What is your name ?~A. v llliam 1:',dwin Johnson Buchanan. I have been 111 .l:'apua since. 1695, but have been entirely a resi­

dent smce 1897. 2ooj.

noc im:ended to bl! personal. ln regard to t11e

aamm1scrat1on o:t lands, l wish · to state that the openmg up of tne cournry is debarred by the non-allowance or purchase. Leasmg can never open up a country 11ke thus. ln ~ovember last, ac-

corctmg to instructions I read in the Ordinance, I made application :tor a certain piece of land in

the village o:t .K.avauvau, in tbe Orokola d1stricL 1 took ic that l womd thus hav~ a pre-emptive

right to that piece of ground, and commenced to bmld a house. In January ·u1e Administrator

came with the Judge to Kavauvau. ...About that time another wnite man came to the place, and

he, without making any application to t11e Govern­ ment, went to live in the house I ha

le:tt the matter until the Governor came, and sub4 mitted it to him and the Judge, and Judge 1\for­ ray told me that the Governor had decided that I could not have tnat piece of land. I said, " If I

cannot have that piece of land, and that man is. in my house, I will pull it down.'' He said I could

not, as in the eyes of the law a house is land. I

had no land, and therefore I had no house. I

spoke to the Governor, and said I would expel that man, and he asked me not to do so. He passed

his word to me in my house that if I would allow the matter to stand over until the new magistrate came over in about six weeks, the man would be put off my property. That man is still living

there. Seeing that according to the law of the

country a man had no right at all unless he made applic~tion, I then told the Judge that if that was a fact all my stations, on which I had spent £600 or £700, any man could come and take them away from me, and he said, " Yes, that is so. " I im­

mediate! y wrote to the Lands Office in regard to applications I had made years ago, which had never been decided, and , got the three letters dated 22nd December, 1905, which I produce. I then came to

Port Moresby, and saw the Administrator. F rnm those letters you will sec that the original appli­ cations have been lost, and I was requested to put in another application on or about the date I first applied. You will also see that they had- no re·

cord of the moneys I had p aid, and th ey asked me to tell them what money I had paid. 2004. Jfr. Herbert.- These three applications were made about 1900 or 1901 ?-A. Yes. When in those letters . the Lan·ds Department asked me to

• :t:,, , , litiol).k.nlltt 1 8th ./6'\f,, 1906.

make new application , th:it i topie of what I

had previously made years before, and of the same date , it ,ras absolutely irnpo sible for me to do

so, because the people "·ho were interested in that land at the time I had made the applicatiC'11S "·ere in all probaLility dead, or supposing that they kne,r that I ,ranted to make another application for the

amount that I had already arranged \\'ith them, they ,rnuld prolx.1.bly refo e to sell. In regard to a

man named Gabriel. H e had a section at Port

:\lore ur, and he li,·ed on it for auout three , ears . H e took up the section under the imprO\·ement clauses. He interviewed the surveyor. and tbeY were satisfied fhat the a moun t of impr~,·ements h~ had made on the property was sufficient. H e left the place, and came to ,rnrk ,rith me dom1 in the \\·est . H e ,ms 150 mil es away from Port Moresby, 14 days' journey . H e got a notice from the Lands Office, not telling 11{m he h ad any payments to make, but saying that if he did not take his pro­ perty off the ground the Government would throw it away. I came to Port l\1oresby, and took the

matter up. I interviewed the Government Secre-tan·, Mr. Richmond being away. Mr. Musgrave told me that because Mr. Richmond was away the

matter .had better remain in abeyance, and 'there would be notfting done. I returned to my hotel, and the same day, Mr. Catt, manager for Burns, Philp, and Co., brought a letter written by 1\Ir. Musgrave to 1\Ir. Catt, as agent for Mr. Gabriel. telling him that if his goods in his house were not removed by the e11d of the month, they would throw · them out. Tha.t was on ilie 27th of tl1e month,

although he knew 1 ,ms agent for l\fr. Gabriel and I was in town. I waited he1·e until l\Ir. Richmond came back, and he said it would be all right, and that Gabriel would not lose his propertr. Gabriel

has subsequently recefre d his dee ds. There is an Ordinance which calls upon a trader for £,r per year for every house he has. Traders have verv extended districts, and natives do not \\·ish to liv~ in their houses or we in theirs, and when \Ye go to a village they ask if ,,·e are going there again, and if we say yes, they build us a house , and t'hen the

Government come along and charge us £1 for that house. I :have five freehold stations, and in addi­ tion I have 24 houses in various districts, places where I simply go ana sleep when I am visiting

there, and £,24 a year is a big tax. Tf another

man comes down in a boat and trades, he pays 1,0 tax. I think every trader should pay a tax of,

say, £10 a year, and that tax should be for each

magisterial district. It should be optional with the magistrate whether he grants a licence or not, and bv that means have a check upon men of known bad character-men w.ho should not be here. At the present time you have no control over the

traders. 200 5. Q. What do you get in return for the

£1 ?-A. We do not get any occupation licence. The ground is · not purchased, and if he likes the native could put us off his ground. I paid under

protes t. It does not give me any right over men

who may come along after. 2006. Tlte Cltairman.-Is there any other mat­ ter ?-A. Yes, in regard to our mail communication b,· steamer. At the present time it is of no good

to us. We are in communication "·ith Cairns, but that is no good, as it is not our market. Sydney

is our market, and the transhipment of goods frcm Cairns to Sydney is prohibitfre. I haYe tried to

open up a timber trade, but it is no good unless

l,e can put it right into the steamer at Vailala. I

ha, c got 600,000 feet of cedar, and Burns. Philp, and Co. promi ed me they would send me a steamer, but they did not, and I ba,'e lost that timh r, a

portion of it by fire, and a porlion by flood. I

m1} have .zoo,OM :feet h0'1.', and b~ th€ end of six months I may haYe 500,000 in ca e some one sends a steamer. .( am going to try and float that timbe, up to Hall ~ound, wllere I could get a teamer.

ln future, ,rhen a steamer is subsidized, and traders along the coast are able to giYe a full cargo, t he

steamer should ue compelled to go and take 1t up. 2007. Q.. Do ) ou thinik if facilities for the

transport of timber were pro\·ided, that the indus­ tn· could be started on the West ,Coast ?-A .. Yes. i( the transport is reasonable. If any one will get me a steamer, I will ship eYery year a million ted of timber.

:2008. Q. lf you had suitable water transport, would it also be possible to supply hard,,·ood

sleepers ?-A. I am hardly prepared to say it ,rn:.1ld . There are other good timbers beside cedar. We ha\' e :\Ialill a, which is a good h ard,Yood timl:er. If a timber man came here with capital, I wi ll

gladly take him up the country and show him all 1 know, and I believe that he will be able to open up a most important trade. 2009. Q. Do you think it would be advisable

2.nd commercially sound to send a thoroughly com­ petent timber expert to report on the marketabl ~ timber of New Guinea ?-A. If that were done, it would do more towards opening up the country than could be done in any other way. Another

matter which causes us trouble is that the Govern­ ment say to us, '' You must not protect yoursel\'es and your life or property, but you must send to

Port l\loresbv and we will come." We cannot do that, because', in all probability, we would be killed before we got there. When I was discussing the matter with the Administrator, he said, "You know if mu do not like the nati Yes doing this sort of

thi1; gi you ha\'e no right here; you have only on e thing to do, and that is to go away." We cannot

increase our pos~essions unless we have pioneers , and inste ad of being encouraged, we are checked eyen· time. We ha,·e no confidence in Go\'ern­ ment protection, because ,re know th'at those people

who ha\'~ been killed were killed right under the nose of the Government. I think the Government should afford more protection to settlers than they do at the present time. I do not think the men

should take the law in their own Hands. Then, as to obtaining carriers . We shall be unable to carry on presently, because the natives will not carry. If a man here wanted to go into the countn·, he

could not get any carriers, because the Hanuabada people will not carry, and others are getting in the same wav. I think because of the benefits the

natives r~ceive from the Government they should be made to do something. 2010. Q. Would it ease the position if the Go­ vernment ,,,ere to take oYer the ,,·hole of the re­ cruiting ?-.4.. I would like to think that OYer be­ fore answering. I 'think that the natiYes should k:now they should render some 1 service for the pro­ tec tion they get. They think that the "·hite ~an

is aJ fool for giving them medicine and other, thmgs and getting nothing in return. 2011. Q. Do you think the natfres under con­ trol shoald be taxed ?-A. He should giYe a cer­ tain amount of labour e\'et,· ,·ear. H e has no ca h to give. In my part " -e 1; a \·e vi] I ages of 8, ooo or

10,000 people, and th ere ,rill be troubl there if

some steps are not taken to keep them in order.

The\· are all right at pre e-nt. Then. in regard to

the power u ed here by the London ~li ionary

So ietY ,,·ho ha,·e a , tern of nati\'e teacher

,, hich, i mo t di astrou ~ TheY ar the mo t im­

moral and deprn\'ed ffi"'l1 we have clffiOncr the natiYe · in their habit and health. They .are put in Yil­

lage. as repre ntatiY of hri. tianih· to the di -­

grace of en:ry ,rhite man. If a trad r doe not

pahcler t6 themj they u e :111 theit influence

against him, and the,· have a power which i very har? to combat. The,· will u e their power

agamst a trader who is not one of theirs, and to

be one of theirs is to be what YOU would not wi h

to be. •

2012. Q. Do you know of Your o,Yn knowledge of acts of immorality on the ·part of these nati,·e

teachers ?-A. I haYe a.Ir ad,· laid information

against Akear, Tupuna, Lati:ira and t,Yo other men. Three are South Sea I sla;1d men, and two

are :'.\ f,l\r Guinea men, and all a,IJ.·~ missionary

teachers of the London ::\lissionan· Socieh·. The,· ar~ at the present time under arrest for abduction·, ;1smg fire-arms, and, I. think, insulting language . fhese men went to different villages and tole

three women, two single and one married. These women were taken and handed over to the white missionary at Orokola., and he has handed them over to his people in the compound, with "·horn at the present time they are living in concubinage, and they are there yet. I hand in correspondence in regard to this matter which has passed between mn;elf and the London -}Iissionan· Societv. I also wis.h to refer to the system of Village Constables. There are villages to which the Government do not come for twelve months at a time, as in the

West. A Village Constable there is simply a 1lack­ mailer. The pay he receives from the Govern­

ment is not sufficient to keep him. He is not al­

lowed to engage himself to ·work for any white

man, and the only thing he has got to make a livin.g is to be a blackmailer. I also wish to ref er to the

waste of mane,· in keeping up a boat like the

Ll1 errie England. It is quite unnecessary. If ,re

had a proper mail service up the coast it would

be unnecessary. The Merrie Engla1zd last year, I think, did three " ·e eks' work in twehe months.

There is also a regulation which is ven · oppressiYe to a certain class 'of white man. A· man is not

allowed to take a "·oman from a district unless he marries her, thereby inducing that man, in all pro­ babilitv, to commit bigamy or other sin. He should be a'Ilowed to take her if he gives a proper guar­

antee to restore her to her own village. Then

there is the up-bringing of half~caste children. Something should be done. The trouble is ju t

commencing. Ther should not be brought up as natives, a.nd the,· should be properly educated from the taxation of the country. 2013. Q. Would it not be better to make. a man pay ,yho is responsible for. the half-cas~ children? -A. Yes., if you a.re certam to catch him.

2014. Q. Would it not be unfair to ask for clean­ living men to pay for the laches of those who are not ?- A., Yes ; but it would be better to ask us to

pay than to see these poor little wretches ru·nning round the yillages. At present there is a half­

caste child running in my village, reputed to be

the child of a Government officer. The woman has taken another native of the ,rest, and the child

would have been taken then2 among the western cannibals if I had not taken him and put him into my compound. 2015. Tlze TT!itness.-There sho uld als·o be pro­

vision by which inquiries \\·hich are asked for mto the actions of Government officers should be made public. We have often asked for inquiries, and

have been unable to get them. I have made appli­ cation for inquiries into the actions of Government officials and could not get them. In 1897 I _ask~d for an inquiry into the action of Mr. English m

connexion with the ,my he treated me when I went into the interior of the countn·. H e interfered

with me as a prospector, and did the best he could to excite the natives to Le objectionable to me, and FZ

W. i. it. '.l:Htohll,t1t11, 8th Nov., 1000

ne le t nie there. ! a.ISO \dsh to ref er to a. state~

ment of the Admini trator that there were ob­

jection ,rhy a trader, or an ex-trader, should not be appointed to any Gm·emment position; and I, a a trader, a k that Captain Barton should be asked what the e reasons are. I have a lttter here from

a man ,rho did apply. 2016. Q. You say the L11erric England is useless, l>ecau e the ,rnrk could be done by subsidized

teamers. How about the Xorthern DiYision ?­ .-1. There is nothing- to prevent the ,rhole "·ork of the Xorthern Di,·ision ueing done by the President. 2017. Q. Supposing an outbreak were to occur suddenh·, and the President was a,ra,·. How

,,·ould the ,· get there quickly ?-A .. Th~re is as much chance of the M errie1 England being awav as the President. You do not need · a steamer nov,:. Our natiYe population at the pr'esent time is per­

f.ectl ,. tranquil. With a steamer service running up and down the coast and the coasting vessels there is quite sufficient for the Government to meet all emergencies.

. :018. q. That is if there were a properly sub-

. s1dized lme of steamers running ?-A. There should be. A steamer gees to Yule Island every alternate month, and wit_h a small subs-idy it ought to go every month. It is not necessary to go fur­ ther west.

ARTHUR EZARD

was s,\·orn and examined, as follows:-2019. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. A_rthur E:zard. I am a carpenter, .and have bee;n in l\ew Guinea for five years.

2020. Q . . I understand you have some complaints t;' make agarns-t the Govermrient. What .are they ?­ ii.. In November, 1903, I signed an agreement in the Court to pay certain money into thy> Treasury eYery month. All these mo!l-eys were paid up to I\larch, 190 5 · About a fortmght ago I went to the Court

and asked .Mr. Champion if he would be good enough ~o gn-e me the first and last dates the moneys were paid. He told me to call again in the after-1:oon. I went in .the .a.ftemoon, a.nd he gave me a list of moneys paid to March, 1905, and I found

out after I came away that there was no record in the Treasury of. any moneys that I had paid. After I came out of his office ~ found from Bums, Philp, an~ Co. th.at I\lr. Champion had got the information

which was. contained in the list he gave me, from Burns, P_hilp, and Co. I paid that money into

Court, thmki~g that at any time I made inquiries I would be able to get information in regard to it, .and _find that they have to get the information from a pnvate source.

20_21. Q. Why were you ordered by the Court to pay mto the Treasury ?-A. It was for maintenance. and the order was that I should pay this money int~ th~ Treasury under an order of the Court. I have paid for six months myself, and got the receipts from the !reasury. I to.en went down west, and Bums, Philp, and Co. had to pay the money into the Tre~sury for me. I gave the list I got from Mr.

Champion to Judge Murray, and he has it.

JOHN WRIGHT

was sworn and examined) as follmrs :-2022. Tlze Clzairman.-Wha..t is Your name ;>_ A J oh.n Wright. , · ·

2023. Q. What position do mu hold in the Go­ vernment ervice ?-A. I am a carpenter and joiner. I represent the whole of the workmen of the Work<; D epartment, and w.a s appointed at a m etin g of the men. The workm n suggest that quarters be

p1 o,·iul.!d for them, as it is impos1ble tb get l 1.·J;J at mgnt at the hotel. Late hours. and noise, suc11 a:; su·ai1Jers conung m ana dn.nkmg at the notel where the men ha\'e LO liYe, make it sometimes 2 or 3

o c10C.l( m the mormng betore the men get to sleeii, and a man is not iit to Jo a day 's work w11en he does n o[ ;ec proper rest. lt is also a great mctucemem

w drrnk. lt. 1s also asked t11.at quarters be proY1deu ror · married men who would brmg the1r wives here. At present there are no vacant houses to bring tl1ern to. it is desired that medical atte,ndance be ailowe<.1 tree, .as fever is Yery prevalent here, and we have i.O p.a.y for a certificate m case of sickness. We ask

that an extra allowance be paid to workmen soot to pl.aces outside Port l\loresby. I would suggest some­ tning about 3s. per day. We are all paid a fixed

wage at present. 2024. <2- At the present time do you get any

allowance for living at the hotel ?-A. l'io. 1 would suggest that free accommodation be given us. We ger a wage of £zoo a year. 2025. Q. And quarters would mean extra pay?­ A. Yes. In the case of married men, we have to

.keep up two homes. 2026. Mr. H erbert.-How many men do you re­ prese,nt ?-A. Eight. 2027. Q. Are they permanently engaged ?-A. Yes.

2028. Q. How manv are married ?-A. I think four, but none have th~ir wives here. E. ~dwards and J. Hughes ar,rived last month, and they agree with om reguests. They are included in the eight men.

2029. Tiu Cltairman.-Summed up, you want free quarters.i. free medical attendance, and, when you are moved to other parts of the Territory where li \'ing is dearer, you want a:11' allowance of 3s. a

·day ?-A. Yes. 2030. Q. Would you consider it a fair concession if the Government provided suitable quarters and charged a low rental for them ?-A. Y'es.

203r. Q. What would the cost be of a suitable

cottage for a married man ?-A. About £160. The old printing office could· be made suitra.:ble for the single men. 2032. Q. What board do you pay at the hotel?­ A. £5 per month. The price for board only would be £4 ros. for a month, so there is very little dif­

ference between the two amounts.

MAX ASSMANN

was sworn and examined, as follows:-2033. Tlze Cltairma:n.-What is your name ?-A. Max Assmarm. I am a trader, and have been nine years in Papua.

2034. Q. I understand you wish to place certain matters before the Commission in connexion with the Lancls administration?-A. Yes. I applied in 1900 for an acre of land at Yule Island, and I heard no

more about it until June, 190 r. I came in once

or twice and inquired verbally why my application had not been entertained, and eventually received a !E:tter dated 24th June, 1901, from the Assistant Res:dent l\Iagistrate .at Port Moresby, s.tating that

the matter was held O\'er pending the survey of a to" n hip at the place. I made several applications aft.... r that to the Lands Office, and was always re­ ferred to that letter until al.Jout two years ago, when

I ,ra · told that so scon as a surveyor ,·;as available he· ,rould come out. The land bad. in the mean­ wh ile, been surve,ed, and I acre taken OUt for Ill , _'\~ c 1e end of last year I wrote to the Legi Jatire

C<, ~mcil. and V'inte

dealt with, surveyed, and title deeds issued, a.nu I also referred to the case o± the Hall Sound Com­ pany, \Yhose application had been dealt with before mine. I received a ietrer, dated the 6th ot - · ovem­ ber, 1905, from the Acting Chie f Go\'ernment Sur­ veyor, stating that an Order in Council had been made that I Le offered half-an-acre, which was shown

in the accompanying tracipg, for £5. Improve­ ments of not less than £50 were to be done in two ye:1rs, and I was asked to state in writing whether i accepted the land on those conditions, ,and to for­ ward £2 survey fees. I accepted the conditions. Two applications of mine were put in in 1900 and

1901, and were only dealt with in 1905 and 1906. 2035. iJlr. H erbert.-In the 1901 application, did you receive .any special communication from the Lands Office in 1905 ?-A. Yes. After writing in 1905, I received a reply, dated 7th Kovember, 1905, rt-'q_uesting me to make fresh application for 1 acre of land at Oiapu, and stating that there was £1

deposit on both Korana and Arupaka land, and there still being left £ 1 deposit to m,· credit in the Trea· sury for no specific purpose .. the Government Sur­ Yeyor would credit me with £ 1 on the present appli · cation for 1 acre at Oiapu, and also that the arpli­ cation had to be made in duplicate, and he forwarded

forms for that purpose. Then, on the 2nd March, 1906, I received a notification that, by Order of

the Executive Council, it was directed I should be offered the block of land in fee for £3 without con· ditions. I accepted that. The same delay has oc­ curred in all mv land matters, altogether there being

three of them. ,, 2036. Q. You have some further evidence to

give about natives ?-A. Yes. At the beginning of last year, there was some report that Dr. Strong

at l\Iakeo interfered with tbe natives in trading

matters. He had told the natives at l\Iakeo not to

sell any sago for less than three sticks of tobacco. i\kGowan wrote to Judge 1\Iurray, and it was re­ ferred to the Resident l\Iagistrate, l\Ir. Bramell, and Dr. Strong was required to m::i.ke an inquiry and report. I spoke to Dr. Strong about it, and

he desired me to see if there were any of the

natives who had originated · this report. I pro­

mised him I would do so, and I gave him the names of the nafo·es. They were some of his own police. He went down afterwards to inquire into the

matter himself. 1 do not know whether Dr. Strong had the services of the two natives whose names l Ead given him as interpret~rs, but I was told so by the natives. When he returned, Dr. Strong told

me he had made iny_uiries, and sent me a letter; dated 4th December last, stating that he 11·ad full:n inquired into the matter on his last trip to Orokola. I do not think any good can result from a Govern­ ment official making inquiries into his own conduct.

I think there ought to be something done to pre­ vent interference bv Government with the natives by influencing the~ in rega_rd to trading matters. I have no personal complarnts to make. I have

ahvays been treated with courtesy, personally.

HIS HONOR, JOHN HJjBE'RT PLUNKETT MURRAY ,ras sworn and xamined, as follows : -203i. Tlte Cltairntan.- What is your name? -- A. John Hubert Plunkett Murray. I am the

Chief J 1diri:1J Officer of the Territory, and I ha Ye helcl thar office' for two , ear· and two monlths. 2038. Q. f under. tarid that the first matter

you wi h to gi, e e, icle nr.e o n is the Jack of en­

couragement to white settl er:, ?~ A .. Ye. . It struck me a short time [lfter I arrived that the Admini ·

tration was inclined to pur u a policy rather op­

poseJ to \\ bite sett! 'ment. The Government had

S5

3. H. P. Murr1ty, ith Nov., 1906.

a.n idea, so far as I could see, that the future of

the country was that it should be a home for

natives ; t.hat the whole of the administration was t? be for their sake; and a policy of passiYe re­

s1s:tance was to be offered to the ,...-hite settler; and this, I assume to be contrary to the policy which

would be approved by t~e Commonwealth, inas­ much as the Commonwealth grants a subsidy of £20,000 a year, and over £300,000 of Australian money has been spent on the place. The policy

the Government pursues is defended sometimes on the ground that the country is not fit for settle­

ment, and that the natives are not yet in a fit

·position to _be brought into contact with white men. There was an interview with Sir Evan James re­ ported a little time ago. He stayed at Govern­

ment House for a fortnight, while the steamer was going on to Cairns and back, and then he went, I

believe, to Samarai. In that interview he justi­

fied the policy of the present Administrator on

the two grounds. I have jndicated. The whole policy of the Commonwealth, I think, is opposed to that. The natives have been treated extremelv well ;

perhaps too well. I think thev have bee~ placed

on a pedestal for too long, with absolutely no re­ sult. If the country i~ not fit for s~ttlement. we

should not have any land or labour ordinances.

You have seen the countrv vourselves, and will be able to judge. In regard 'to the natives, after

twentv or twentv-five years of settlement, a harm­ less old market -gardener, Weaver, ·js killed within ro miles of Port Mores;by, and the obiect of the

murderers who killed him, and who had lived,

some of them, within rifle shot of Government

House, was uartly to have the right to rpaint , t~e nosts of their houses red, and to wear feathers m their heads. If that is ·the result of twentv vearsi

of the present uolicy'. I think another policv shoulcl be adop.ted. [20.,9.l To illus.tr.aite what I mean b\· the lack of enco11ragement to white settlement. I take the land. The scantiness of white settlement

in New Guinea is obvious to any one. There

is reallv none excent by the missionaries, an_d my contention is that it is due, not so murh to the

survey fees beini:r high, or the rent being high,

or even to the ~hance of the n~tives not beinf!

willin~ to sell. but to the interminable delav. I

heard of the delav on the steamer before I came

here and when I arrived, almost everv set of

pap~rs from the Lands Den:irtment which nr1ssed throuflh the Executive sho\;ved thPrP. had been delan r~mging from ,months to vears. The c:u~ of these clefovs ::i.re v::i.ri.ous . There. ::ire some mstr1nres, no doubt in whi.cb' the deJav h;,s been due to the :in ­

nlica~ts nutting in annlirati0ns _ whirh were in­ formal. ;ind it woul

Admi.nistr'.'ltion. T arrrue th~t thP .A rlrn1mstr::itrnn rrenern 11'· i.s tn HamE". Aft 0 Pr I h::id be,"'n her=- a few ~1onths, T railed the ;,ttentinn of th~ Adrninistr_atot'

to this rlelaY. and asl

r~meoied. H 0 sairl. th,,t thP 0elaY was rl.ue to the

slcnrness of the Lands Den::irtment. I had not

heen here lonD" ::i.t the timf'. h11t m'-· subsex­ nerienc-e showerl me that the rlPl::i,,· is geT',er;,llv r1 1w tn Re<:irlent ,farristr:itec::. WhethPr it ic:: rl11e,

tn tl-.e T .:1ncls DPn::trt.ment (W th~ npc::irlpnt "I\ f" ,.,.:~_ tra~es mv contenti.on js tk1t thf' Adrnini.stration is t0 hlam~. · As a mitter of fact, I think thP Resident

Magistrate is to blame in mosr cases. I haYe no~ access to the papers of the Lands Department, hut I can mention a few cases I ha.Ye come acros.s.

2040. There is the case of a man named Graham. He was the man who brouiht charges ag.airn,t Mr. English, and intidentally the papers. came before m , e only w h.terl s o~ 11 Mt t>f Hltv-1 tH t-1tt1rt,

When I was down there he "·as occupving the

land. a~d had beeni waiting' two year· . The

papers shom·d that there haa been either three or ·fo:.· r reminders from the Lands Department to fhe Re, i'd nt ::\lagistrate, but fhey were treated with

nctual contempt. During the first part of the case, the Resident ::\b.r..-istrate was Captain Barton, but he was not liable for the delay in that case. The

matter ,ms then handed to ~fr. English, and then to ::\fr. Ballantine, and the delay occurred during 1\fr. Ballantine's time. As far as I could see, Mr.

Ballantine bad Jost the paper~ for t,Yelve months. I know he passed through there several times, but took no steps about this land at all. The man ,ms

occupying the land. 2041. There ,ms a man called Anthony \Yho used to manage for -:\1r. Ballantine at Scig'eri. He

waruted some land at Hisiu, and evervbody wnnted him to get it. The natives were willing fo sell.

The place is only half-a-dav's sail down the coast. I brought his case up, and eventually he got the

land, but it took nine or ten months. 2042. There are the three cases of Mr.

Buchanan's where a delav occurred of from five to se,·en years, and also th~ case of Assmann, where considerahle delay occurred. 2043. I hand in a list of provisional grant-:

from the Govemment Gazette, ,giving dates of application. In some cases, probabh· the want

of surveyors would cause delay. The delav

is not due to tbe Resi

these cases. I think the reascn whv the­

Resi

if clelay occurs, as they would if delav orC'1.urd in na1ive- cases, such as adulterv, &c. So I put ~he

motives actuating- the Resident Ma.rristrates :is, firstlv. the natur~l des.ire to sf.a.nd well with Hi~ Excellencv, who thev know is not in favour of

white settlement; secondly, the desire to avoid the inr.reaified labour and resuonsibilitv which whit~ settlement invclves, as it is m~1ch mon~ difficult to manacze a district with whites. and natives. than a

Division containinf: natives onh·; and thircilv. the natural dislike of the Resident Magistrates that their ordinarv routine work should be upset on account nf some suecial .pxpedition in reg-ard to a land matter.

The Resident Mag,istrafe 1,as alwaYs, plentv of rea­ sons ·for r.roin_g to pfaces he wishes to e-o· to. by

reac::on of the extent of bis distrirt., So 'that, so f.a1· ns the nelav in land rroatters. is one to want of

:iction of the Resident Marristrates, I considn th:it the Ach11inistntor is rliirectly to blame. Be himself, when R,Psident Ma2:istr:ite. apnears to lPve bee11 iust as dilatory ~s any of tl1e others i.n 'dealing with'

bnd matters. fo one case T knmY, tl1ere were three remindPrs sent to him. ::rnd he h::is carried l1ic; artinn nc:: Resioent l\fagistrate into his nresf'nt n0"itinn. In

::idciition to th"' convers!ltion ,,·ith C ::int:iin 'Rarton fhorth· :iHer my ::i.rri,·al herP. T r::i.llerl .::ittf'nti on t0 the rlP-la,·s several times at thf' 'Rxer\1tivP Cumril. and T J~aYP ;, lways be-en met with <:OmP ~11rl1 :rns.wer

il s this : " V 011 cannot exnert the 1<. i\ f. 's t0 rro

round their Di,·isions looking- for ]and.'' or, "Whv rfo thf'\' riot <'Orne and t.akP up lane{ ronnrl Po;t

i\fo.rPsb,·?" I h~,·e h::i.d other simil:ir answers at nther times. Within the- la:-,t few months, thPre J~as bPPn a rhanrrf". f'Snffiallv since th<> rnrnmis~;nn rarnP here . .::mcl n Jso before that. since the,· c-t ::i rtP rl t.1lkinrr in Parliam-0 nt down south; l)11t 5t will onlv

last :i. short time. I :1.m certain the change \Yill

not be permanent. 104.4. T!ie C7za£rman.-Whv do YOU take that , 11 W ?=A 1 1l MU t COM1tl(1\' th~t, th~ rthW' ~ Mt

J. H. P. Murra:y, ,

th • ov., 1906;

the delay are permanent. If the same Administra­ tion remain -, the same ca.uses will work. The new Land rdinance is a great ,impro,·ement upon the old one, but it all depends upon the Adminis.tration -that is upon the way it is administered. Under the new Ordinance, the Resident :.\Iagistrate will still

have to buy land. He will not have to go twice as

under the old Ordinance, but he will still have to buy the land. That caused the de.lay in the past,

and that will also cause delay in the future . When the excitement caus.ed by the coming of the Com­ missicn passes away, the old causes will act.

en the ground, but the nati\'es refused to sell. There has been a similar case in the Central DiYision, where Mr. Bramel l ,ranted to buy, and the natiYe would not sell. Mr. Bramell p ers.isted, and eYentuall y,

after a long time, the native a.greed to sell, and it

turned out that he had been put up to it, so :\Ir.

Bramell says, bv a :.\fission teacher, a South Se~ Islander. --I\lr. Campbell told me of a similar case in the eastern end, and there is the recent case of

Fowler in H .a.11 Sc~Jnd. There the native would not sell, so it seems that the thing is spreading. You cannot get land in the Eastern Dfrision, and the

evil is spreading through the Central Division. and will increase even· day. I tried to get a clause put

in the Land Ordina~ce for compulsory purchase. If a man applied for Ianu which was not used,

and not likelv to be used bv the nati,,es, the clause allowed of it being pur~hasec:l and leased to the white settler. That I got through, but Captain Barton

opposed it, .and in his despatch he stated that he

was opposed to it, and they threw it out down south. That clause was, I believe, knocked out in Cabinet-. Drummond, Champion, and, I think, somebody else voted for it here. I do not remember how ~fr.

Musgrave voted.

2045. Q. What makes you think that Captain Barton is absolutelv wedded to the old reactionarv policy ?- A. I do not consider that he is actuate~{ bv unworthy motives, but I think he is. afraid of

the natives being ill treated for one thing, .a11d I

think he has a nervous dread of Australia and Aus­ tralian ideas, and he thinks that if there is anv

great influx of white settlement, the natives will suffer. I think those .are the motives which act1,1ate him; also he is a man who constitutionally hates responsibility.

2046. Q. Have you any specific cases come under your no6ce of his want of sympathy for the white settlers ?- A. I have often heard him in conversa­ tion. I have a.rgued the point with him on several o~casions, and he bas told me that he wishecl to God that gold had never been found i.o the coun­ trv. and he wished there were no miners here. I

said that if th~re were no miners he would get no revenue, as they paid most of the taxes. H·e said he would do without the revenue, as if they. had no miners thev would not have the troul:,le and ex­ pense of adm1nistering- the Torthern Division.

2047. Mr.· Herbert.-Do you think .that apparent want of sympathy towards European s.ettlement is .attributable to the Administrator's keen sympathy for the natives ?-A. Yes; largely.

2048. Q. It is not a feeling against white so

much as it is sympathy for the blacks ?-A. I think it is both. His opposition to white settlement is

due largely to his sympathy for the natives. It is ·

largely also due to a lack of sympathy with demo­ cratic ideas. I do not wish to give You to under­

stand th.at he sits dovvn and says, deliberately, " I will oppose white settlement,'' er that he acts dis­ honor.ably, but I think that fear on the one .side

and s,ympathv on the other l1ave led him into a

position which appears to me impossible. 2049 . The TVaness.- With regard to the Land Ordinance and the R. M. 's, I was pointing out

that the danger with the l.a.tter still existed under the new Ordinance. When the Land Ordinance was going throug-h the Executive Council I uro­ posed that they should appoint a special officer, to be attached to tbe Lands Department, whose duties would be, on ;receipt of applications, to go at once and deal with the matter. He would have nothing else to do. If he had some idea of surveying he

would Qe able to give a sufficiently accurate de­ scription of the l::md ;ipplied for. The: ~; would not, however, hear of it, because they said the R. M. 's were in a sort of parental pcsition in regard to the natiYe , so that the R.'.\I. 's were left in the same

position as the\· were in before. We cannot get

th e land, :rncl -if we cannot g,et it, it 5.s no use

ho.vinrr a Land Art. That difficulty is Lecoming /ITC'ater and _'.;rea.ter as time:> goe on. For instance, th e other da,· , since I saw the Commissicn in

S.1rnarai, .'l man called Lee Ling in the Ea tern

Di,·i. ion h:vl a r;is{' \Yhirh rame before the Execu­ tin· Council on the r rth Ortoher la t. His number i · Xo. 10-1,, 1904. He made an ::i.pplication to lease, anc1 his t·Prms were accepted. He paid _-{,3 depor:.it. ~rd the R. '.\L strnngfr recommended that the land be purchased and leased to Lee Ljng. who had been

2050. T!ze C!tairman.-Then, in your opinion, that compulsory clause is absolute] y necessary?­ A. Yes. I think the proper way to do it is to

ma.ke the whole place Crown _land, leaving ample provision for the m1tiv,es. Of course, it would cost money, and would! take a lot of sun-ev \York. I

knew' thev would not hear of it, so c1ia not pro­

pose it. · The objection raised to compulsory pur­ chase or making the country all Crown land is the address of Commodore Erskine. It does not appear to have very much bearing on the matter. It

is simply protecting the lands of the natives from evilly-disposed persons. •

zosr. Q. Do YOU think there is anything in that proclamation which would render it dishonest on the part of the Commonwealth Parliament declar­ ing the land of Papua Crown land ?-A. No, I do not think so. Another case I may quote is that of

John Oberleuter, who wanted to buy some land at Ra.pa before the prohibition came in. It is said

that the natives would sell at first, but afterwards turned round and would only sell part. That is

all I have to say' in regard to the delay. in getting

land.. [2052.J The second point is that \\·hen the settlers are on the land the GoYernment does not protect them, and I instance the case of ~Ir. Greene, of Sogeri T ano.

·2053. Q. Do you agree with :\Ir. Greene' s con­ tention in that case ?-A. Yes. 2054. Q. Ha Ye you any other instance of plan­ ters not being protected ?-A. I do net know of

any other plantation inland except Sogeri. Of

course, there are other planters on the coast. 2055. T!te Witness.-With regard to labcur, I do not think, so far as I can see, that anv en­

couragement is given by the Government in regard to the supply of nativ~ labour. There i. al\\'ays

a. srarcitv of native labour. There is n ,,er a suffi ­ cient suppl\-, and the Government, even if they did not take over the recruiting them~eh·es, r,auld, I think, gi,·e considerable assi tance if they en­

couraged the natfres to go to ,rnrk, and dir0 cted

the Village Con tabl es al o to enmura.ge the m. In.­ stead of that they . eem to take (!uite the opposit~ vie\\'. The Gm·ernment'. ideal is the a me a. the

idea I of the mi ionaries, tho u~h arri,·e d at by a

different prore. . of rea onin rr . that is, that the

natives should keep to their own ,·illages. If vcu take the - T atfre Labour Bill, the one that is going through now, it is a much more liberal one and

will be fair] · satisfactorv. I have been tn·inO' J b

87 J. H. P. MurraJJ 8th Nov., 1906.

ever since I came here, tha~ is for nea.rl y two years, t :) try and get these alterations made, and there was

. never any hope of it until the non-official members were appointed. With the non-official members and myself, we formed a majority of four to

tbree. 2056. Q. Is the Commission to understand that you carried the amendments to the Labour Bill against the Administration ?- A. Yes. We had a ma­

jority but will never have a majority again. Before we went down, the Administrator said we should be Cc:.reful_ ~o have a Government majority aga.inst the non-official members, and I asked whr. I said.

" I do not think that the division. c·~1ght to be on

those lines at all: If I consider that ;1 proposal is

for the b~n~fit of . the Territory, surely I ought tu vote for 1t mdepende:ntl y of the vie,Ys of the Go­ vernment.'' The conversation then dropped. We went down to Samarai, four Government members,

counting myself, and three non-officials. After what I had sa}d he knew I would net be any part

of a solid party, but I think they relied on one

of the non-officials that he would be a GovernmP_ J1t supporter. It turned out that he was :not a Gc­

vernment supporter, so the three non-official mem­ bers vote

again. They will bring an official majority in

future. ·when I first came here I went to ~Iam­

bare, in November, T 904, and a lot of miners came to se e me. The G~Tvernor ,Yas not with me. They came with labour agreements, and all of those

agreements had a column left headed, " Is the

nafrve to be re-engaged? " and in every instance "Ko" was put in. They said this ,vas very hard, and I told them it must ha.ve been a mistake, be­ cause it appeared to me that if, after a native had

served a year, and knew exactly what the work was like, and knew what ros. a month meant, he ought, if he wanted, to be allowed to sign on again if

the employer wished to imgage him. I came back thinking it was a mistake, and I r.aised the ques­ tion, but I found it was not a mistake at all. They

said it would never do to allow the natiYes to re­ engage. They said a year's work was quite s~ffi­ cient, and I said t11at if that was so the natrves

would not wish tci re-engage. I recommended this change for two years. Eventually I got it in the

Ordinance, I think, without the assistance of the non-official members. Then there was another thing in regard to desertiO'll. If a boy deserterl

and was awav say1, fo·ur months, and was then

caught, those 'iour 'months were deducted from his. twelve months' service. That seemed to be un­ just. They altered that before we went down to

Samarai, but it took nearly, tw o, years before they vrnuld agr,ee to· it. · .

2057. Q. Then for two years you were ~ghtmg to get that alteration made ?-A. Yes, from eighteen rn o:nths to two years. Then there was another

point. If an officer refused to sign on . a b~y'

the Resident ~Iagistrate could refuse to s1gn h:m on, and need g iYe no re_ason. The non-official

members to:;ik great except10n to that, and_ ,re ~a r­ ried it against the Government, though I thrnk with­ out division. Then in r eg::i.rd to the w::i.ges and

time the bov is allowed to sign on for t,relve

months. Under the present Ordinance they_ used to rlate the time from the day the boy left his ho1:1~· Supposing a boy left his home i1~ the Western DH·1: sion, and had to beat up agamst the s~uth-ea~L

to· Samarai, and the miner did n?t get him until

he had time to come from Samarai to Buna. T!1::i.t would mean sever a 1 ,Yeeks' time before ~1e got him, mid the miner had to pay for that time. That

time coun,ted .in his twelve months. That ,ms

altered at Samarai against the Government. That

was the way the employer was treated; the way the natiYe is treated is this : ·when the natiYe de­ serts, he nearh ahrnYs steals his load, and 1f not caught he go~s- off to ·his island. He is then a de­

serter and a thief, and the GoYernment takes the trouble of sending an officer from Samarai to his natiYe Yillage, not to punish him, but to pay him hi.; ,Yages.

2058. Q. The ·easiest way to ,go to the ne"· gold­ field at the Wari ::i. is to go up to the Waria River,

thiough German territory, until you cross into Bri­ tish territory again. The practice has been for the miners to go that way and to take their boys with them. That ,ras illegal under the ~ ative Labour

Ordinance, because you must not take the 1oys out of British territory, so, at the suggestion of one of the non-official members, I drafted a clause legalizing the existing practice, and giving power

to take boys out of th~ Territory and bring them b::tck again. The Go,·ernor ,ms wry much opposed to that, a:nrl he expressed a confident cpinion that when the Bill goes south the\- will throw out the

whole BilJ on .acAou11t of that clause, and I only have this opportunity of explaining that clause. It only means legalizing the existing practice. It does not interfere with German rights. If they

like to stop it thev c::in do so. We give our own

miners the right to take the boys out of our own

Territory and bring them back. They do it no v

illegally, and this clause "·ill enable it to be done legallv and under proper control. They will con­ tinue doing it until the road is made.

TWENTY-THIRD DAY.

FRIDAY, 9TH ~OVK\CBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, p ORT MORESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Ch::iim1an); W. E. Parrv-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert,.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

HIS HONOR, JOHN HUBE'RT PLUNKETT MURRAY was further examined, as follows : -2059. Tlte Clwirman.-Will you please resume rnur evidence ?-A. To instance what I s.aid about the desire of the Government to keep the natives in their villages, I may say .that at Keuru, a man

there had been ,rnrking at the :.Iambare, and ap­ nearecl in ;-i ,raistcoat and hat, and he ,ms excluded from the vice-regal circle as a beastlv man ,Yho had been working at ::\Iambare. Another case "' as at

Opau. where a native's wife committed adufterv while he ,YaS working .'lt the )fambare, and the

GoYernor was going to deal with the case. When he found this man had been ,n-irking on the ::\fam­ bare he told him he had no ri .rrht to run "kava­ ka va " about the countrv, and "he would not do am·thin~ for him. I do not put these forward for the puroose of forming conclusions from them, but

as an illustration of what I mean. Then there is

another· point I would like to mention in regard to the Gazette notice I handed in in regard to grants.

. H. P. Murray, 9th Nov., 1906.

88

There are a tremendous number of religiou grants. and a mall num\Jer for the general pul>lic.. ~hat i becau e there have been ,·erv fe,r applications

from the general public- not ·because there has

been le s delay in tho e cases.

2060. Q. \Vas th re any reason why there ~hould be this stagnation in regard to "hite settlem~nt

pending the passing of the l)apua Act? ,1. ~o,

I cannot see anv, because lea es could be granted. There were a fen· applications. In regard to min­ ing, what struck me is the absolute absence of en­ couragement in regard to that industry. That I

have dealt with in connexion with the labour, and the ('Omersations I have had ,rith the Administra­ tor. While we "·ere awa,·~ I think last year, about the middle of the year, some news reached us of a sudden development in Woodlark mining. I re­

member it having a most depressing effect on the Administrator, which lasted until we heard that this development either was not true, or, at any

rate, was greath· exaggerateci _; and it " ·as on that occasion that I had one of the con versa lions whi.C'h I haYe referred to in which he said he wished

there hact never been any gold founcl or any miners, and I said, among other things- " Have you any

objertion to planters also?" He sairl -" T woul

of them, anyhow." In addition to th.at, there has been a standing thrrat to close the -:\Jambare field, i.e., the Gira and Aikora. Thr mortality on those fields is certainlv enormous. an

debated in the Executive Council some time about April last, I think, whether those fields ought not to be closed altogether - that is, whether Jaoour

ought not to be refused for those fields. I op­

posed this on the ground that it , as the last course

that ought to be pursued-that everv effort ought to be made, even at a large expense, to minimize

the mortality before taking the extreme step of

closing the field. After some difficulty, eventu­ <1H v, I induced him to refer the matter to the

Re~ident i\Iagistrate, who, fortunatelv, was as much opposed to the closing of the field as I was. Since

then J believe that the idea of Dr. Jones, of Sa­

marai, is to send an expert up for three months

to investigate; he savs he is rnnfident that the

mortality can. be reduced. [ 206 r.] Still in regard to the point of ]adk of encouragement of white settle­ ment, there is a minor point that officers should not be married .. I discussed that with His Excellencv. J

taking the view that it was a matter which concerned the man and his wife more than any one else, and if thev liked to get married and live in ~ -ew Guinea ,re · ought not to prevent them ; and, further, that

it was better to ha,·e a married officer than a non­ married officer, inasmuch as a married man "·ould be less likely to be entangled with nati\'e \\·omen. :.\"ot that I put that from a moral point of view,

because you cannot expect a higher standard of moralitr 111 ~ew Guinea than YOU get 'in Europe or Australia, but berause if an officer gets mixed up with a native woman J1e inevitabh· rnmes under the control of her relatives, and is thereby considerably

hampered in the execution of his duties. I re­

member one conversation in particular ,re had a,t Cape X elson, on th i1l crrie J,_'"f!.land, about one of the A.R. -:\f. 's who was married, and I expressed the views I have indicatect. and he said the married men ,mu] d be just as like] y to get mixect up witn a natiYe as an unmarried man. and, furthrrrnore, that it was a good thing for an officer to keen a

natiYe woman. becau.e he therein lennt the lan­ guage. He saict tlnt more than count rba lancrcl

any ohjection. [ 2062.] One point argueLl in defenr"' cf the policy of keeping away white settlement is

that you thereby yrotect the nati \·e . T_hat seems}o haYe influence ,nth many people) an~ :f I_ thou,:-,ht there ,ras any danger of hard hip or m3ust1ce bemg inflicted on rhe native I would do pre.ty wel! an:, -thing to amid it. I do not think there 1s the

faintest danger. Of course, I kno,Y ~here are

violent indi\·i duals \\·ho in the past have ill-treated tl1e nati,C's. but th , han' ahfaYs been in a -rery

small minorit,. and I think they have been pretty we ll ,reeded out. I think at present the concensus of opinion ..i::nong the miners is that it is not ~nly

just, but to their O\rn interests, to treat the natn:~s properly j and eYen under the present system. m · which a great point is made of t~1e gO?d treatment of the native, a great number are shot 111 the course

of a year. I think, if you wil 1 rea~ the ~eport.s,

vou will see that, although the numoers given m

the reports are probably "ery much under the act~al numbers of those who have been shot; and a thmg that struck me as curious, but which may be capable of explanation, I have seldom heard anything about

the wounded. I do not say for a moment that the

s!1ooting of these na.tiYes was not jn~ti~ed, as I do not know tlie facts. J am only porntmg out that

a great numlX'r are shot. and the t\\·o men. " ·ho

shoot near] v all of them are the two particular

friends of His Excell-encr- ::\fr. :.f onckton and Mr. nruce. In the Gulf mid Western Divisions you

niever hear of 1·his sort of thing. [2063.] This dis.­ couragement of white st1ttlers seems to permeat.~ tlie whole nlace. Tr-e R. -:\L's seem to deYote the whole of their time to what thev call clivisionill work,

which means visiting different villages, anrl then going on to the next one, .n1nd W l1m:e no time to look after the wbite man. Judge Robinson was the sup­ porter of tl,e wl1ite man. I "·as nlOt hf're in his time. hut vou can hear that all oYer the Territory, and

he dies at Government House without .a friend. [ 2064. J You find exploring expeditions like

that of ~fr. ~lonckton up Albert Edward. He

was awav for several weeks, taking with him a num­ ber of ·poiice . He left the station insufficiently

defended, with the result that two of Mr. Meek's carriers were murdered. It is described, I believe officiall ,. , as a patrol to look after the interests

of the ·miners on the Upper Gira. As a matter of

faet. it was an exploring expedition for the express purpose of .~oing to see the too of l\fount Albert

Edward. It is n,ooo feet high, and practically

no natives \Vere there-none aboYe the 6 . .500-feet level--and to m:v knowledge the expedition was planned as long ago as last De:emher. You have a wn· good view of Alhert Ed1'·ard from some

places qn the Mambare and from Ioma. Mr.

·:\fonckton " ·as with us. and he. the Governor, and mvself, ,Yere talkin~ about the exnedition. Mr.

Griffin was also u-oing, but eYentualh- did not go. I do not blame ::\Ir. ::\Ionrkton for croing there, be­ cause any man ,rnulcl he glad of the opportunit,· of making suC'h a trip ; but I cannot think it ,ms

consistent "ith the performance of his duties as R. ::\L to a How him to go there. That is all I have

to my about the laC'k of encouragemen~ of \Yhite set­ tlc,1Pnt . [206"°.l The .econd 1)oint is farnri~ism in the Public SerYice. l\fy point, broadly. is this: that t~ere are in the servi:'e :i. certajn numl'er of peonle who c1n get a1wthing they ask for, anrl do anything the,· Ji.kl:". ,rhile then· 'lre others who are heiP ·'

C'ontinuallv nubhed :111d sat upon: that matte;; are d 0 cided uoon pnely persc111 l t:;rounds. and that it is h:ncth· an f'xaggeration to say that the

mainsprint:;s of administrative :1.C'tion ar~ personal st,ite :rnd fasoritism, the rPc; 11 Jt being that it is

rxtremeh· difficult for am· one , rith self-re. pert

to remsin in the service. I consider that Captain

Barton is naturally a weak man, and that he has

n? very strong idea of fair play. I will illustrate

h1~ want of fair play to the circumstances in the

Ihchmond case, i.e., the procedure. Mr. Rich­

mond's suspension was on 29th August, 1905. I ''.'!Ote this letter to the Governor on 24th August, 1905 :-" Dear Captctin Barton,-! hear that )[r. Richmond's matter is to be submitted to the Exe­ cutive Council, and venture to write in the hope

that I may be able to persuade you not to place

us in the dilemma of having to deciqe-as I under­ stand will be the case-bebYeen your statement on the one side and that- of Mr. Richmond on the

other. It is a position which I myself should feel

m@st acutely, as I have always been. on the best

of terms with both, and I honestly thjnk that it

would be impossible to find a tribunal that is more absolutelv unfit to d ecide a case of "thi.s nature than the Executive Council. We are a11 Government servants, and for that reason alone the very last

p eople who should be called upon to decide a ques­ tion in ·which the G0Yerno1~ our official head, is personally concerned. Constitutionallv. we are your advisers, and I cannot think it right that we should

l)e called upon to act aS1 judges in a ·c ase v,rhere -it wjll be so extremelv difficult for us to form an

unbiased opinion. As an alternative, I would sug­ gest that we confine ourselves to taking evidence, and that the evidence, together with all material papers, should be sent to Melbourne, there to be

the Royal Instructions, provide for a referenre to the Executive Council in these matters, but I c:in­ not think that the framers of those rules eYer had a rase of this kind ' in contemplation. I s·houl

have called and di.s r"':.se,1 this matter instead of writing, but I know ,o·J are ,,e ry busy, and have

but little time to spare. For tbe length of my let­

ter I think the importance· of its subject-matter is .a suflicient apology.' 1 After that I got a le:ter

from Captain Ba.rton, simply asking me to come and call, so I called on the 25th August, r905, and he said that I had misapprehended what he in­

tended to do in Richmond's case--that he did not intend to allow the Council to hear evidence at all. He said: "I shall be there. No evidence will be

taken. Richmond will be suspended, and . the papers sent to Melbourne.'' I said : '' Whatever view you take, whether jt comes under the Colonial O~c_e Rules or not you cannot suspend a man or pumsl1

a ma.n in an; way without allowing him to .defend himself.' 2 He said: " I am perfectly convmced I am right in the view I take." I said: " Then it

d . " d is unnecessarv for me to offer you any a vJce, an he said, "Y~s." I went away, but be-fore I went

I said I reserved the right to enter a protest. Mr.

Richmond's case came on on the 29th August,

before a Council presided over by the Governor, and containing two extraordinary members. I. con­ sider that the fJiesence of those two extrnordmarx members, l\Iessrs. J\Ionckton and 1?ramell, pract1-c.'.llly rendered it a p;icked Council. There was

no necessity for their presence. _We han a ()_UOr~lm wi~hout them, and the practice JS only to appo:nt extraor

the Cou~cil. In thi5 case neither ~f ess:s. Bramell nor Monckton Ind any such quahficat10n of any sort. )Jr. Richmon

· · tl1a· 'Ir Brnmell would be afraid to op, op11110n -- '"' · · l\[ k H . Exe ll "" n""' · and I know Mr. one ton pose 1 s ,,._ '- , , , . , would support him in anythm.g-. I protes~e~ against the suspension in the followmg ,;erms j 1t JS un.der

date the. 29 th August, I905 :- I prote t agamst

9

J. H. P. Murra ,

ith Nov., 1906.

the suspension of l\Ir. Richmond on the following grounds:-(1)The rinestion irwoln~ ct is not of such a

nature as is contemplated by the Colonial Office Rules or the Royal Instructions j and, being peculiarly -personal to His Excellency, sbou ld not be brought be­

fore the Council. If, howeYer, the

Council must ronsider the question they should consider both sides of it, and

sl:10uld under no circumstances advise the suspension of an officer without hear­ ing him in his defence. (2) As Mr. Richmond made the statement in

question to Mr. Hunt when that officer was inquiring into the working of Mr. Richmond's Department, and made it, to nuote Mr. Hunt's letter, 'for the

purpose of illustrating the difficulties he exnerienced in carrying out his duties1 ' he should not be suspended without hav­ ing an opportunity of calling evidence

to justify his action by showing th.'.1.t the statement was made jn good faith, and is, in fact, true.

(.3) The fact that the defence put forward bv Mr. Richmond involves - a personal re­ flection upon His ExcelJencv is no rea­ son whv the Council should advise the

suspension of :\Jr. Richmond, though it is a good reason whv a questi.on of this kind should not be brought before the Council at all."

2066. My contention was that it ought to have been dealt with apart from the Colonial Office Rules, and should not have been brought before the Executive Council. In that case the broad prin­ ciple would apply that no man should be suspended or punished ·without being heard. The suspension

meant the loss of half-pay. Even if you follow the rules and regulations of the Colonial Office, under which we were then ,rnrking, you will find that

under rule 85 the officer is allowed to appear before the Council and defend himself orally, which was the right denied to Mr. Richmond. His Excellency in his interview with me expressed his conviction that he had the power to · suspend Richmond with­ out hearing him in defence, and declined to hear

my advice when I tried to persuade him that he

was mistaken. The same view as that entertained by Captain Barton was expressed by the three

gentlemen who inquired into the case Jater on in Melbourne. In their minute, dated 5th October, 1905, they say: "We entertain no doubt of the

power of the Administrator in Council in suspend­ ing Mr. Richmond without full inquiry and hearing of evidence /' but I maintain that rule 8 5 of Lhe

Colonial Office Rules and Regulations confers on Mr. Richmond the very right which he claimed, and which was refused to him, and that if the matter bt: considered ap~rt from the Colonial Office Rules

the ordinary principles of justice would confer upon him the same right. He applied for leave. I.ea,·e was refused him, although there \\'as nothing "·hatever for him to do up here; and, jn fact, being

suspended, he was not . allowed to do anytbin/I. Then eventually the case was tried on affidavit in >.Ielbourne, instead of orallv in British . -ew Guinea. ·

2067. Mr. H erbert.- Is there am· loca l law re gulating the mode of suspension in New Guinea?­ A. XO'J1e; we are ,guided lw Cnlonial Office Rules. There are, of CO'Jrse, the Letters Patent, which give

the power of suspension subje<-t to being governed bv the Instructions, i.e. ; the Colonial Office Regu­ lations. Sir E. Barton, when Minister for Ex­ ternal Affairs, laid it down that these Regulation,

J. H. P. )furrar,

9th Nov., 190G.

90

had to be followed in the case of the di missal of a man named Parke b) )Jr. ~Iu graYe when Acting A

Council yoted for Richmond's u pension except myself. I rnted again ·t it, and put in a protest.

)Ir. )Lu.grave rnted in farnur of ir, because he said he considered it his duty to support an) action

taken LY the Administrator, and at the same time he tenderecl a prote. t. The" would not accept his

protest, as be had voted for the suspension. After they refused to rec i Ye his protest, the GoYernor wrote to )[r. )Iusgra.Ye, asking him \Yhether he wanted his protest considered as a protest or as an

ExecutiYe :.\Iinute, and I think al o whether he

wanted it sent down south with the other papers. Mr. 7\Iusgrase made an ambiguous repl v, and did not commit himse1f to anything in particular, and at a rnf'eting on 4th September, the nuestion of

his suspension was brought forward before the Executive Council, the Governor saying that so long as the protest remained a protest, it ,ms privileged, but that directly Mr. )[usgrave admitted that it was

an Executive ~Iinute it lost its privilege, that it

was offensive in terms, as it accused the Governor of being false to .his official oath, and being no

longer privileged he brought fhe matter before the Executive Council to get their advice in regard to 1\Ir. MusgraYe's suspension . I do not remember bow the voting went, but 1 protested against it in the follo,Ying terms. It is dated 4th September.

1905 :-" In this case, I am of opinion that no

action should be taken, for the following reasons: --I. The matters of which it is suggested that

notice should be taken were put for ward hy :Mr. Musgrave as reason~ w_ hich in­ fluenced him in making hi.s protest , and in offering certain advice to His Excel·

lency, such advice being to the effect that the question should be 'decided by some bodv other than the Executive Council. 2. Nothingi in the document i.n question can,

in my v,iew, be construed as an expression of opinion that His Excellency has vio­ lated his oath of office, or as an imputa­ tion upon His Excell ency of any kind

whatever.

3. It appears to me c)ear from a consideration of the documents as a whole, that the

statements therein contained ,vere made by :.\Ir. ~Iusgrase in good faith, for the

purpose of explaining to His Excellency the advice which he considered it his duty to give, and that none of thtm were in­

tended as an aspersion upon His Excel­ lency or his administration .

I mav add that I consider the document to be what it pu~ports to be, namely, a protest made in Execu­ tiYe Council, but my opinion would be the same whe­ ther it be regarded in that light or a. an official

minute. The distinction seems to me to be a Yer\' technical one, and I prefer to rest my opinion on the broad ground that the document does not bear the construction suggested.''

2069. T Ile Clwinna11.-Can ) ou give me the date on which you saw Captain Barton in regard to the Richmond case ?-J . On 2:rncl Augu. t I

\Yent m·er to Government House a.t Captain Bar­ .ton' r que t, a he ,ri bed to con ult me about thr

Richmond case. I a:d,·ised him that he ha.d no

power to su pend Richmond ,rithout reference to the ExecutiYe Council. He had at that time al­ read)- written a minute to 1\Ir. Richmond, s:isinr.; he wa " to be suspended." Also I advised that

the par::i.gr::i.ph a to interdiction, Regulation 88, did not apply to uch a case. .The following clay

Richmond ,ms interdicted under Regulation 88, the \\'ords heing added in his minute of interdiction '' such suspen ion'' to take immediate eff ct. That was exactly contrary to what I had adYi ed .on t~e

22nd. On the 23rd, the same day, I adnsed m

writing (1) that the uspension from the office of ,Chief Government Su0;eYor did' not affect :.\[r . Richmond. s position as a member of the ExecutiYe, procedure as to remoYal from Executive Coundl

beinrr th same as the procedure "·ith regard to re­ rnov~l from office, Regulation 60. (2) That the Colonial Office Regulations are jn force here as laid clown lw Sir E. Bardon in the case of Parke, and must ·be read with the GoYernor;s instructions. :\Iv next inten·iew \Yith him was on the 25th, as stated,

also at His Excellency's request. 2070. Tlte Wihz.ess. - I have brought forward these instances as a justification for stating that I do not consider the Administrator had much idea of fair plav or justice. I think also that he is natu­

rally a "weak man, and prone to be influenced by oth~r people. When he was promoted from Resi­ dent "i\Iagistrate to Administrator, the friends of yesterday became the favorifes of to-day. the chief

of whom is Mr. Ballantine, and he has been under their influence ever since. n2071. l I ,Yill deal

now with Mr. Ballantine. I admit that he is a

man I never liked. I will try and not do him an

injustice in any way. To pt{t the matter briefly, he is reallY the Governor. That must be admitted b,· everybody in the Territory. All sorts of

theories have been advanced to account for the in­ fluence he wields, but I do not believe in any of

them, so I need not mention them, but the result is that he indulges in what Mr. Musgrave, in a min­ ute, describes as an '' insane assumption of autho­ rity," and attempts. to rule all the Departments.

He has endeavoured to run tbe Lands Department, and with regard to the Government Secretary's De­ partment, I may tate that the state of affairs be­

t,Yeen that Depar ment and the Treasury is not one of friction but almost of oven warfare. As for

mvself I have onlv come three times into collision with a~v Deparhn~nt since I came here. and each time it ~vas with the Treasurv. Each time it was

while ~1r. Ballantine w~s hne, and never ,rhile he was awav. [2072 .J The~e occasions were

-first of all the Run ting case, which 1 think vou

have got. ( 207 3. J Another ~ase ,y;is in reg~rd tn hawkers' Jicrnces, No. 69'7 705, G.S.D . . [20741 and the third a recent case in regard to fhe Pearl

Shell Ordinance. which occurred two or ·three weeks ago. [207 5.] Witn regard to the hawker's Jicence, that was a case in which :\Ir. Ballantine had gi.Yen some legal advice to thP effect tha"" f},e Hawkers

;:mo P,edlars Acts of Queensland :ha.cl not heE:'n ~:dopted here, whereas as a matter of fact thev

h~Ye bren. anonted here. The matter came beforP me. ?11<1 T :idvised th~t ihf'sE' Act-; had hePn ~dop.ted, and "i\fr. tiusgrave called the Governor's attention to the fact that the Treasurer' action \Yas mislead­

ing to the public, and that he should not gin, leg~l advice anv more without consulting me. 12076.l Abo11t three weeks a~o the rnme Department. not the Tre~smer personalh-. hut the Arcountant. gaYe

similar incorrect adYice ,Yith rerrard to the fee. p::iY­ ahle under the "Pearl hell Ordi111.nr0 • HP

"·ante

from the same Department, and his onh- reph· ,Y1.~ to direct the Trea mer to bring the previous minute he had ma

with the hawk r' case ":a to the effect that thQ

I

I I I

I

I

I

Treasurer was not to act on his own initiatfre in

legal matters, but to ask my adYice. 2 077. Tlze Cltairman.-Your advice was I un­ derstand, totally disregarded in the Bunti~1g case by the Treasurer ?-.11. Yes.

2 07_8: Q. And I unrlerstand he acted in entire

opposition to that advioe·?-A. Yes. 2_0 7 9· Q · HO\v do you account for the Treasurer ta~mg. such a responsibility upon himself ?-A. I Hunk it was due partly to the fact that he felt he

could rely. implicitly upon being backed up by the Governor m whatever he did, and partly to the

fact that about that time he started drinkino- so

that he may have been to some extent in flu;~ced by drink. 2080. Q. You say " started drinking "? -~

A: Yes. . 2081. Q. Is. the Treasurer in the habit of excess

111 that direction ?-A. Yes, he was. H e has been

a:vay _for nearly twelve months, and may have

given ill: up. I say that Mr. Ballantine's influence

Was specially noticeable in the Executive Council, where practica.lly his . voice was supreme. l\lembers of the Executi,·e Council who were members when Mr. Ballantine was Treasure r before he went

away, will bear me out in that. 'I contend that this state of th ~·ngs is largely responsible for the dis­

~rganization of the service, in the following ways: - Officers know that their chance of promotion ·de­ pends upon keeping in the good graces of the

~rea~urer. I _was first of all told of that by :.Ir.

Engli's h, of Rigo, shortly after my arrival, and I found it out by subsequent experience to be true. [ 2082.J Mr. Drummond, for instance, when he was first appointed to , the position of Acting

Chief Government Surveyor, openly said, not

to me, but to both :Mr. Russell and :Mr.

Matthews, on more than one occasion, that

he ,vas quite ready to do anything for :Mr.

Ballantine, provided he could maintain his posi­ tion. He did not use those particular words.

Another thing is that a complaint against Mr. Bal­ lantine is simply a waste of time. ".Mr. Symons,

for instance, a clerk in I\Ir. Ballantine's office,

came up here and complained to Mr. Musgrave about the way i\J r. Ballantine talked to him. Mr. J .\if usgrave said, "You had .better complain to the Governor. I cannot do anything." Symons said

the re was no use complaining to the Governor about Mr. Ballantine, and I have heard other officers

express the same thing. There is another curious fact. You wi!ll find that eyery man who has quar­ relled witli Mr. Ballantine has incurred the hos­ tilitv of the Administrator. [2083.J Take, for

instance, the case of Mr. I\Iusgra,·e. There is an

old feud between Mr. Musgrave and Mr. Ballan­ tine which dates back, I believe, to the :days of

Sir 'George Le Hunte, and :Mr. :.Iusgrave, in con­ sequence, suffers from tl~e hosti!ity of the Adm~n.is­ trator who submits him to a senes of petty hum1ha­ tions 'which mus~ be alm0st maddening. Compare,

for instance the minutes written to Mr. Ballan­

tine in the 'cases I have referred to, in which I

came into collision with :i\fr. Ballantine----:Buntings, the Hawkc'r's and pearlshell cases - with the

minutes written to I\Ir. 1'Iusg-rave on eYery slight pretext, real or apparent. [2084. J In the Bunting case His Excellency puts the whole blame on :.Ir. Musgrave, who re;ll)' had a?solutely nothing to

do with it, except to try and mduce the Treasur~r not to send the natives on. :\Ir. Musgra,·e was rn

no way to blame, and Mr. Ball?,ntin:, who authorized the whole thing, was let off with an apology.

[ :rn8 5. J There :ire numerous other little instan~es, such' as the case of a Frenchman . named P<_?~h1er. We wanted to take his photograph. I mentioned Matthews, who {vas here at the time, and who was

91 J. H. P. Murra.11 9th ov., 1906.

a good photographer should take the photograph, so }Ir. :.(usgra,·e wrote O\·er to :.Ir. :.Iatthe"·s a k­ ing him to take this Frenchman's photograph, and he did so. Of cour e he should haYe made the

request through ~Ir. Drummond, the h ad of the Department. It wa a trifling thing, and wa

,rrong. }Iatthews and Drummond happened to be jn the same room \\·hen the letter arriYed, and Mr. Matthe,ys said he supposed it ,rnuld be all right; he could take the photograph. :\Ir. Drummond

said, "Yes," and Mr. Matthews took it. He mav have been absent from his d~1ty one or two hours', and then, after that, for some reason or another, I cannot exactly prove ,rhy, although I haYe my

suspicions, Drummond, ,rho knew all about the letter being sent to Matthews, and who raised no ob jrotion, complained to the Governor ;that his D epartment had been treated witth discourtesy, or ignored, or something of the sort, and His Excel­

lency took the opportunity of writing a much

sharper minute to :.Ir. :.Iusgra.Ye about this wretched photograph than he had ,nitten to l\Ir. Ballantine about the Bunt~ng case or any other case. I con­ tend that you will find that all through, though I cannot remember all th details, if you contrast

minutes 1 ·0 the Government Secretary with the minutes to the Treasurer. [2086.J Wh.a,t I call that savage minute wbich was written to }Jatthe,Ys in the Awaiamo case illustrates how differently other offi­

cials wete treated from l\Ir. Ballantine. That case was the subject of one of the charges which Rich­ mond brought. The minute ,.vas written to Matthews, and I call it a savage minute, especially as it

turned out that :.Iatthews was perfectly correct. If you have not a copy of irt, I believe there is a

copy at Government House. l\I'y point is that

he ,ms one of those who quarrelled with Mr. Bal-, lantine, and that he, iU1 common with all others

'\Yho quarrelled with Mr. Ballantme, has incurred the hostility of the Administrator, and has suffered accordingly more or less. Mr. Musgrave was one of them. He suffered in this co ntinual s,eries of

pin-pricks, and also in this attempt to suspend him which I have already referred to. [ 2087. J Mr.

Richmond, I have heard recently, also quarrelled ,Yith Mr. Ballantine about the Pelations of the two Departments, the Treasury and the Lands, and he, I maintain, incurred the l1ostilitv of the Administrator in the same way. [ 2088. J T:he same

thing occurr'ed in regard to l\Iatthews, as I have latelv been .told ; he had some disturbance or quarrel ,Yith 1\fr. Ballantine, I think in connexion with the cricket club, before I can1e here. H e was super­ seded by Drummond, and eventually fl1ought it

better to lea Ye the service. [ 2089. J The same thing happened jn regard to Mr. Russell. H e had a

quarr~l with Mr. Ballantine about some police in the ~orthern Divi1sion, and also about a/ whale­ boat at :.Iekeo, and he was transferred from :\Iekeo ,Yith a reduction in salary. He is now getting the same salary. The same thing happened in regard to Haughton, at Samarai, but he has put hils case

he.fore you. [ 2090. J The same in reg;_rd to Cap­ tam Rothwell, the late commander of the lJ.,J errie England. He quarrelled with :\Ir. Ballantine about some stores, and also about fares of passengers, and the result was that he was dismissed for in­ competency, without any inquiry of any sort or

kind. Arguing from these facts that everybody who has quarr lled with :.Ir. Ballantine has suf­ fered in the service, I think I am justified in

drawing the concl usion that he has a great deal It:or influence than he 0\1ght to have. [ 209 r. J

:\ ow I come to the question of l\Ir. Ballantine's

drinking habits. I first heard of it in the month

of October, r 904, about three or four weeks after I arriYed in the P ossession. Mr. Ballantine was

92 .r. H. P. lfnrrt.y, 9th NoT., 1906, then R.M., between the resignation of Captain Barton and the appointment of "i\Ir. Bramell.

There were ome ca e for trial in the Centra l

Court from the Rigo di tr· t-.ome of English '

cases-and Engli h came up to Port for the pur­ pose of explaining them to me, as one c 1se was

rather a difficult one. There were evpral murders, and sen'ral persons accused. 1 sent Ahuia, V. C. of Hanuabada, to get the -pap rs from the R. ~I.,

:Hr. Ballantine. He said he first went to the

office, and could not get them, as ~Ir. Ballant:ne was not there. . I said, " Go to his house, and ask

him where you can find the papers." H e went to

·the house, came back, and told me ~fr. Ballantine was very ick. I said, '' What is it, feyer?'' Be

said, "· _ -o, grog." I remember the exact ·words,

my diary:-" Went on shore. B. on the spree

again. '' It must 1-ia,e been on the same da) that

I had a c01wersation with Dr. Strong, who is now A.R.:\I. at :\Iekeo, and who was then Acting Chief :\[ecJical Officer. There was a case he had com­ mitted for trial at Yule Island, where the Al errie

England ,ms going, and he said it was a c;ompli­ cated case, and he thought he ought to go down.

as that was a cur·o1..1s word for a natiYe to use. I

inquired of Mr. English, and he said it was im­

possible to say ,when Ur. Ballamtine would be

straight. He tried to get the papers from him

once or twice, but said l\Ir. Ballantine was too

drunk to be able to tell him amthing about them. On Saturday, r 5th October-that was, I think,

about three daYs after Ahuia. ha

Ballantine rarely kept it up for more than a week, so on Monday, 17th October, 1904, I came back, and when I came down he was all right, and we

got the papers. I mentioned in regard to Bunting's papers that he was probably drunk when he took action in that case, as that was on the 10th or nth

October, about the time he began his drinking bout. Of course, I ought to have reported it, but I did

not, for' two reasons. First of a11, no harm was

done, because when I got the papers I found that I could not go on with the case because the wit­

nesses were not there, and the case was adjourned for somP. days. So no actual harm "·as done, and, furthermore, I had only been i.n the country for

about four weeks, and I did not like to start

straight away. I thought the case might be ex­

ceptional. On the 8th November, 1904, a case

came before th~ Executive Council, in which a sur­ veyor and an assistant were charged with drunken­ ness of such a nature as to interfere with the dis­

charge of their duties. This case was before the

Council twice, the first time on 8th November,

1904, and again on 24th January, 1905. On one

of those occasions, I think the first, but am not cer­ tain, the Governor said he was determined to put dowrt this habit of drinking, and that, in future,

any officer who drank to such an extent as to in­

te~fere with the performance of hi.s duties, would b~ suspended. or words to that effect. 1 went awav on the 12th Kovember, and came back on the :url December, r qo4. On the 1 oth December. the Go­

vernor, Mr. P.allantine, and mvself, and others, started for the Gap. 1 came back with fe-ver.

T.hev went on, and returned on the 7th

Tanuarv. Aft.er their return in JanuarY, and be­ tween the oa.te of tbe 7th Tanu~n' :ind -4th Febru­ ary, when I went away again 111· the M erric' F.nrr­ land, ~fr. Ballantine wa.s on anothf'r spree 111 hie;

cottage, not p-oing to his offi<'f'. :rnd he was sern there lw His ExC'f'llencY, r1ru 11k. It was on an fY'­ C'asion whPn therP. han be<"n borsf' rarinrr on th<" :fht. His Excellency went in to ~Ir. Ballantine's cotta!!le.

came out arrai.n, and returnecl into the rott:.ge :1rrain with Dr. Craigen. He was .t>en to do that h, all

thP. neople thpre. inclurlinr.: fr. Russell. He was drunk not onh- for one

'i\farch. It w'ls Fi ftf>r "·e had been 11pset in the

?-ha1ebon.t. :ind I dirl not ~o ::\Shore 1111til next morn-

I said, " What about your patients in port ? Will

they get

said, "Yes." I said, "What about Ballantine? " He said, "Ballantine has been pretty bad, but I think he has been frightened, and I think he is

pretty right for the present." I said I supposed it

was nothing but drink, and he sa.id. " ~o. nothing but drink" j and I said if he goes on another spree

it ma,· kill him. "Had you not better stop?"

He said, " ~ o; I think it - is quite safe to leave

him. He has had a slight stroke of parahsis,

and I think he is all right, for the present, at any

rate, . he is so frightened." So the doctor went

away with me to Mekeo. We all came back on the 9th :\larch and Mr. Ballantine then seemed to be pretty right. With regard to what I have said of

the Governor having ·seen him in J annarY in

his cottage, I know it in this way. In addition t0

the fact that several people saw him going into the place, 1\1r. Musgrave spoke to the Governor on the subject on the Merrie Fnf!.land. The date. I th1nk. imust have been the vd ~[arch. He told him that

Ballantine had been 'in this state, and the Governor said, "Yes; I had no idea that he drank likr· that 1111til one :da'v 1

a little while ago, when I saw hjm 111 his cottage,'' which I take to be the occasion to 1Yhich I ha.Ye referred. This I have from )Ir. :\Iusgrave himself. These m;:itters were of public notoriety.

People will even tell von the visions he saw when he was raving. There are anv amount of ,people ,Yho have seen him in this state-1\Ir. Russell. and ~rr. Garrioch, Mr. Wood, the Government Printer.

T believe Wood nursed him through one attack, and -:\fr. Bruce through another. I have pot the

slightest idea whether he drinks now. He rnav

have ,rri.ven it UD while he was awaY, but mv special noint - is tbe difference between the waY i.n which the Surveyor ano assistant were treated, and the wav the Honorable the Tre;:isurer was treated a

month after. Then the point s11gg,ests it~elf. are his services so valuable as to iustifv this exceptional treatmf'nt. He 1s a man who holns manv offi('es. 1209?. .1 His principal position is Treasurer. I do

-rot know anvthing about finances. and as Ir.

Ki.nmond. the Commonwealth Auditor, 1s dealing c:nefr1 lk with that subiect, I c1o not monocp, to go into it, beyond pointin_g: out that 1\fr. Ballantinf'. ~-; Treasurer. seems to be a "l'en1 good 1nc:t:mce of

thp ;,rn::1.teurism wl,ich nervades thP service. He bns had no financi::1 l tr;,ining at ::111. r ,,-ill now

rlPal with him in hjs C!lnarifr of Res1dent

!\fagistrate ::tno. Assistant Resi

'lfter '\fr. ~ramf'll c:-ime here, he hec1me A.R.1f ..

1· ~ H; ,~ t-1 'J\t~ ~ht t t.; · tttt~ 1t t~ 11-1}

l-111t since Mr. Boucher was apnointed. 1 ·no no"

think hf' h:is heen either one or the othn. Tf h(" is

t0 hP R. M .. l1e certainlv shonlcl not hP R. ~f. for

the Central DiYision. where he o"·nc; n coifre nhin­ tation. othf',WI"'P vou ha,·e the c:'lm~ trouhlP ;,s in connexion ,,.ith Enr-lish :,t Rirro. 'T'l-.ere h'l 11f'C'11 th0 same sort of scandal. b11t to a less e ·tent, :1s . of

ro11r. e, h::1.rdlv am· one £Toes uo 1o the o!!eri Dic:­ trirt. With rP.crarn to "\fr. Balhnti.ne 'lS R.~f .. T

,\'ill first n{ "11 rlea l with tlw nela"I c; in land. ~s

im:tanreo in Grn.h::tm's ,;,!'e. r _001..l He W:l<; re­ spon.ihle for t,hese del:n s, :..nd. I thi.nk. ha.cl thrP<" reminders from the Lands Denartrrient. The

p.ap~rs were. handed over to )fr. Ballantine hortlv it.t~ . tnHi ~nttnh 1q rit;p ~Hhtl~nh tlHil l~ io Ii l

~01hew here about J unt:, 1964, and, so far a can see, he lost them, as there appears to ha, e Li 0 n

nothing done for something like a year. Graham, 1 h:we been informed, erentually J got his land

~l;rougl: Bramell after two y~,us' delay. [ 2094. J l here is also the case of Ezard, \Yho has laid his

~.ise be for~ you. Ezar

each month to the R. ~l. of the Division in which

he was living in· trust for )faraia, his wife, a

nati,·e \Yomap. He came up the other day, about the 17th October bst, a!Jout the custod,· of his

children-t\Yo legitimate children. He \\·anted to send the children to school. He· told me about

this agreement, and I s-ent him down to the R. )I. ·s offi,:'e to ask for the agreement. They found it,

quite by accident, in a heap of papers on the

floor, and sent it up to me. It had not been filed.

Then [ asked him whether he had paid this 30s.

He sJ.id, yes, he had paid it, for, 1 think, six

months, up to June, 1904, personally, to ~Iaraia. After that he said h~ had paid through Burns,

Philp: and Company, up to a certain date. I asked him ·where he had paid this money for the first

six months, and he said in the Treasury. Teina,

'll-:e interpreter, happened to be about this building. and he is employed in the Treasury, in th.e rost

Offi.C'e. I asked him if he remember-2d t,his man pa\'ing ::\Iaraia. He sajd , Yes j be did. He. re­

mc-ml:::ered that on several occasions Ezard had naid mone·i· to her at the Treasury. I then wrote dm~n u the Treasuff, and to ~r r. Ballantine, to see if

he knew am-thing abm.it it in his capacity of R. i_r. Aiso to "\I/ Jewell to inquire whether His Exrcl­ lenc,·, who ,Yas R. ::\J. when the order "·as made, lme,v anything about any· pay1;11ent. The\· all told

ne tb,ey

there ,;ere no records anywhere. I then _asked the ,,·oman l\Iaraia. She, fortunateh·, admitted that she had received this money. She .. said she ha 11

not received any more, and, as there were no records, ,,·p· had the:1 t o -reh· on Burns, Phjlp, and Compan.,·, and ,Ye found f ro~n them that the man had paid

the monev through another man's account, to a cer­ t:-iin date. We then knew tlw nrrears, and he

p::i.id them up. .

2095. Mr. H erbert.-Who did :i Burns, . _Philp, and Company pay the money to .-A. Dwect t.o thF> ·woman. · You see the agreement was that it

,,,;5 to be p::i.id direct to the R.M. The R.il.. :'.\lr. Ballantine was also Treasurer, and should ha-ve had a rec~rcl of the •payments in the R. ::\L's. office£. 6 Mr Okeden -Do you know anythmg o 209 . . . J • • 1 the case of Ahuia on the charge of adultery _ wit1

another man's wife ?-A .. ~nly what I ~eard. from l\I .. Tuner who \Yas a missionary at P01t :\[oresb>' ;;d cam~ t; see me about it. He asked ~e :vheth~r l . appeal from )Ir. Ballantme s deci- t 1,ere v\.·as an; · I · d

. l h d decided in favour of Ahma. sai

s10n, w 10 a 1 d l1e roceeded to argue

there \Yas no appea , an . P . h

1 d not been fauh tned, because t e

H~.at the chasJ b~n intimidated' that they were afraid witnesses a f ·a f "'Ir Ballantine and

f Al . d were a rai o ~' . . ' . 0 im~, ~ not et a chance of giving their evi-that they dif Th~11 I told him that if that \\·as so

dence proper ) . f -the Governor and not for me.

it was a matter or ' . · 1 . h t he had had a cor.versat10n wit 1 Then he sa~d t ::t e time before the case came o~,

)Ir. Ballal!.ti~e J0:1d Mr. Ballantine that he part1. .and that he a T when the case was to come

cularly ,yantfg lto ~f.~'\im notice wher. he intendecl on, and _wo~o t~!t he, could be present .. " fr. ~al-to t~ke it, . that he would give h1m ~1ot~ce.

bntme promised t to him arrain remmdmg

Then Mr .. Turnei: wro ed I thir::k he t~ld me that

him of this promise, an .

:\Jr. Bailantine got that letter in the mornmg, an

s J, lf, , Ui't'AS', 9th NoY,, 1906.

that 011 the ame da.\'. without informing Turn r, he tried the ca. e, and decided in favour of Ahuia. TheE he ,rent on to explain hO\ the witne ses ,rere intimidated, and said that, had he been there, they

woLiid not ha Ye been frightened, and would havP. gi\'en true e,·idence. He also told me that this

,roman, who was the wife of the other man, had admitted, if not actually that Ahuia had committed adulten ,ri1 h her, at am rate, that be had taken

imlecen-t liber6es with l~er. I told him he had

better go and see the Gm·ernor, and tell him all

about it, Lecause I said, as the decision is given, I am afrai

I knew about the case. [2097.J Then there is a.

complaint L>:,· ~lr. Fowler in regarcl to sandalwood. 2098. Tlte Chairman.- Yes, we have Mr.

Fowler's evidence. 2099. T Ile Witness.--I now come to l\lr. Ballar.· tine's capacity as guardian of Government stores. I will have to go back to the movements of the

Merrie Enf!.land. We came back on the 9th March, 1905, and ,Yent away on th~ ze.d May, and remained away until 16th July. On the triR_ from the 2_nd )fay to the 16th July Mr. Ballantine. acc0mpamed us, the rcasori being that he was gomg away on

leave for a year, ae.d that it was desirable that he

should go round and make a strict examination of all the books, and so forth, in the east, so as to

amid the possibility of any error occurring ,vhilst he was absent on leave. That was the reason, I was

told. Amongst other places, we went to ~Iambare Beach t\\·ice. I was too ill to leave the ship. We

,rot there first on 13th 1Iay, and left, apparently, on ~oth .\laY, and came l.Ja·..: k again on 6th June. I did not lea,·e the ship on either occasion. I do not re­

member on which occasion it was that Mr. Ballan­ tine went up to Joma. It was either at the er.cl of

)Jay or the beginning of June. I think it must hav~ been June. He went up there ±or the purpose ol

auditing the books and taking accour:t of. the stores .at the station there just as at other stations. He

then came back on the date I have mentioned in

July. We left port again on the 22nd_ No\'em~er, and we went up to Iorna, the new station, 4 miles beyond Tamata. We got there ?n 1st De~ember. We found there were discrepancies amountmg to

se,·eral tons between the books and the actual goods in the store. A special messenger was sent over to Port l\Ioresby to see if there was any record o'i wh~t )fr .. Ballaetine had don{' when he ,ms there m

June, because there was no record at all at lorn.a. We considered it would take about three weeks h> get an answer, so we went away again, and got back to Ioma on the 23rd December. There was no let­ ter there, .and we waited until 2r..d January for a

letter, but none arrived. It turned out af terwar.ds that the messenger had been driven back by a hostile tribe near Kagi. We went into the books, and

found there were discrepar.cies of tons of goods. The question then was: Who was to bla~e? Mr. Ballantine was supposed to haYe made an mventory in June, because that was w~y he went there. If

he had made ar.. inventory m June, and fou?d

even-thin a correct, it showed that )Ir. J. B. Hig­ ginson, who w.as in ~barge of the station up to June, and who then left to go south, could not be to

blame, but that the blame must fa~l on his brother, C. B. Higginson, vho hnrl. ~n ir. charge of the books since June. J. B. Htggmson had g_one south in the l'rf errie England as far as Samarai, and re­ turned or the 2nd 1. T ove.mber, so that hp had_ oeen

away during five of the last six months, an<;l C. B. Higginson had been there. Consequently, .1f there had been an inventory taker. in June, and eYery­ thing was found to be correct, the blame for th~

t. H. 1'. Murrav, 9th Nov .. 1906.

94

defalcation must hare fallen on C. B. We

brought C. B. up with u from Cape_ -elson, so that we ,had IJoth . B. and J. B. there, and :\Ir. Oelrichs. "e could not fic

June, or " ·hether he had done anything. The Go­ wrnor a k d me whether I thought J. B. Higginson should IJe called upor: to resign on account of the stores. 1 aid " Certainl v not. You do not kno\\'

whether he is to IJlame or, not,'' and he said1 "Any -how, I have other reasons for thinking he ought to resign, .. and I said1 "Of c0urse1 tho~e may be suHi­ cient. =' ~-\..11: how I J. B. resigne

Yernor came to me and asked me whether I thought C. B. ought to be called upon to resign on account of the deficiencies. I said I did not think he should,

or that he was the sort of mar:. who would steal

stores 1

and1 furthermore, until we kne,~ 'for certain about the inn:ntorv, the whole question was too uncertain for actio~. He said1 "Then you do not advise that C. B. be called upon to r~sign ?'' and I said "1\01 sir, I do not." Then he said1 "Do you mind putting that in writing ?'' and I said, "Cer~ tainly not/' and I did put ~t in. writing. He a.d··

dressed a mie.ute to me askmg 1f I would advise

calling upon C. B. to resign, and I answered in a

minute that I did not. We then went away on the

2nd J anuary, ar.d it appeared from subsequent jn­ vestigations that there was no dishonesty at ~11 1 that \Yb.at they had done was1 apparently, to sign. re­ ceipts for double the quantities they had received.

It appeared afterwards-that l\Ir. Ballantine had not made an ie.ventorv at all. He went through the

stores which were , actuall v in ·hand, but he did not compare them with the stores which were shown in the book so bis ,rork was abso lutelv useless. The reason h~ gives. I believe1 is that he had fever, Lut

none of the µeople who were with him at the time made any suggestion as to his having !1ad fever. But e\·en if he had fever there was 1~othing to pre­ vent him asking one of the others, for instance the

PriYate Secretary1 to assist him, or, at any rate, to haxe left a record that he did not complete the audit. Mr. Ballantine went up to Toma with fhe GoYernor's party. If I am right in thinking that it was, in

June, they left on the morning of 7th Jun:, and

came back on the evening of 13th June. Tlns mat­ ter was brought up before the GoYernor by ~Ir.

)Iusgrave in some Gorrespo~:ue:1:::e. O:-e letter of Mr. Musgrave's is dated 14th December) 19051 and here again all the blame is put on Mr. Musgrave

because he said something about expenses, and,· ap­ parently, l\Ir. Ballantine did not charge expenses going up the l\Iambare1 ar.d l\Ir. i~usgrave thought he did. It is all turned off on that.

2100. Tlze C!tairman.-I presume Mr. Ballantine was consuming the Government stores and was using the Goverr:ment carriers whilst he was travelling?­ A. Certainly.

21or. Mr. H erbert.-Vv~s the suspicion which arose in His Excellency's mind regarding the short­ age of stores made known to J. B. Higginson ?--A. Yes, but he maintained that he was absolutelv ir.no­ cent, and on the ground of shortage of stores he.

would not resign1 and said he ,rnuld fight it. 2102. Tlze TFitness.-What I want particularly to bring out ir: this is that C. B. Higginson was

very nearly having to resign on a charge of dis­

hone ty, of which he was absolutely innooent1 simply because :\Ir. Ballantine had neglected to do his duty. Probably, if, I had rot been there he would have

had to resign. We then came back to Port l\Ivresby, and ,vent on to Darn, where we arrived on 30th

January. There was a charge brought against the R.~I. of ha.Ying tolen some Gm·emment blae.k ts1 and I ,vanted to trace what had happened to the

Gorernment blankets with which he had been sup­ plied, but he told me that he had no book1 ar.d that he had neYer been told t0 keep am~ book, and he had neYer done so. We fow1d out that that wa the ca e. That I put forward .as neglect on the part of

:\Ir. Ballantine. .AP-other matter is in connexion with the Curator of Intestate Estates. lJntil recently the books were kept in pencil. They ,\·ere written up b) :\Ir. Symon recently by directiou of :\Jr. Bal­

lantir.e. There were continual complaints about in­ testate estates, but I haYe not any actual cases which I can mention1 with the exception of the case which) I think, :\Ir. Weekley put IJefore y0u1 that of

Weeks. The man waited three years to get some of the money that was left to him. I belie,·e there

were no books at all at Samarai wher. :\Ir. Haughton took over. 2 ro3. T!te Clwirnzan.-We already have had eYi-dence in regard to Weeks' case.

2104. Tlte TVitness.--There is the case of a man named David B. Kennedy1 \Yho died in 1'897. It .ar,pears on page 4 of the Government Gazette of J 897, and I have been told it is impossible for the

widow to get an:r information about the estate.

Captain Roth,Yell was my informant. That is all I wish to say in regard to :\Ir. Ballantine.

2-105. The Cltairman.-Does. that complete the evidence you wish to offer ?-A. Yes. ~106. Mr. Herbert.-Did His Excellency, in August last year, in any interview1 consult you on

the Richmond matter in regard to any other p

Executive 1Cow1cil, and I advised he could not. Also he asked me whether tbe paragraph, I think, in Regulalion 88 relating to interdiction 1 applied to a case of this kind. I advised that it did not. I

further .ad\'ised him in writing, a copy of which

1 think you ha Ye. 1 ba.t \\'as on the 23rd August.

r also adviseu him that Ricbmarid could not be

:~uspended without IJeing heard in defence. That ,ms on the 25th August. 2107 . Q. Are you aware of any previous action on that or other matters on your part which might

reasonably have led His Excellency to expect that you would be · £1..d·:erse to adopting resolute mea­ sures in this particuLu case ?--A. _ To, I cannot

think of anything. 2108. Q. Has any such circumstance occurred which would warrant am· such expectation ?-A. :Ko, nothing of the sort. ,

:109. The <;!tai,man.-:-In centres of white popu­ latwn would 1t be advisable to haYe at least one

white policeman?-A. Yes, I think so. I also

think there ought to be a white gaoler at Port

:\Ioresby. 2 [ 10. Q. Do you think there ought to be a

"·bite policeman at the .gold-fields1 say1 at Wood­ lark ?-A. Yes. I would advocate ha.Ying a white gaoler at Port :\Ioresby. At pre ent there is no

one to look after the prisoners here and to ee

that they work. They are lcoked after by a pri­

son warder at present. There ought to be a white

ma:n to look after them. A "·bite warder would

more than pay for the expense jn the extra work

he would get from the pri oner . :\Ir. :\[cDonaJd

has . o much to clo in other directions that lw can­ not baYe time to look after the pri on .

2 r 11. Q. Do you hold the . ame Yiew in re­

gard to Samarai ?-A. I know Port '\fore bv bet­ ter than amarai, but I think it would be a' 0-000

thing to haYe white policemen at the gold-field. and other places, becau e at present the R. :\J. or

A. R. :\I., as the case may be, is the arresting con­ s ta bl , the gaoler, the I ro ecutor, an

aJ1 without legal ttainii1g of ar1y ki11d wha.te,· r. I do not think an,· m~m could earn· out all thes 0

dut.ie3. I c!o n:.:.·~ · d11·,1k it is a fai.r thing to ask

a_ man_ to clo al I thes_e things. l thought at one

t,.:-r:e_ tne r:: :·l:~dy ,rnu1d l:e t:: apy.:oi1,t non-othcial Justices of the Peace, to re!ie,·2 the s·train, but [

think pr:..+·.ib l :: t he wl1ii:e 1 ..:c li~ernen ,rnctlcl l e bet­ t:~r, tht.nbh they \HL:ld Le more cxi:e n i\'e. You

,rn:Jltl ha n: 1.o ·get n :ty goCJd men. ~ The" \\'Oul d k0:c to h.: pick·( l. [ f n.u .f.(C.·~ a mischief-making

c :•ils t.1. blc, who wanlcd tn g2t :1..11 extra stri1;e , he

,,·o ulu do a lot of harm. At present the miners

are ,·ery la,r-abit.ling-. 2J 12. Q. Do , cu think that in all fu~ure al)­

pointme·.1ts to I{. :.\l. 's and A.R. jI."s a certa1n

kno wledge of law should be insisted upon ?-r 1. I think .1.t Pc•rt :.Ioresbv a·:-icl Samarai it should. I

think the prese11 t R. ~I . at Sam.1.rai, and also, her1=, are good men. They clo their "·ork Yery \\'ell. 2113. Q. But in reg2..rd to the outlying districts, \ ·0 -1 do not think it is nece::;sa n · ?-A. ~o, but

h would be .1..ll the better if ycu could get them. z 114. Q. Do you think it would he] p the course cf jus.tice to . haYe seYeral white interpreters ?-A. The question of interpreters is an exceedingly diffi­ cult · one. In the case I tri~d last week, the case

of the murder of Weaver, I was entireh· misled

by a native interpreter. He ,yas the K cera'puan in­ terpreter ; he depo~ed to al 1 sorts of statements as having been, made by Koetapuan prisoners to him. I afterwards found I could not rely on them.

2115. Q. That being sr), ,rnulcl ) ?U farnur a

,rhite interpreter at Port )[ores.by ?-·A. But there is not a white' r~an ,Yho understands Koe­

tapuan. 2116. Q. But if a \\·hite man could be found?

--A. Ob 1 yes. You could get men ,rho could talk

1\fotuan, but ,-rith the exceptivn of ~[otuan, I doubt if there is a single man who is not a missionary

,vho sp2aks any ether nati,·e language fluei:tl y, except English, who speaks Sinagolo, and J iear, ,rho speaks Kiwai. I ,rnultl say it would be a

good thing to get a \\·hite interpre~er who could

talk ~lc,tuan. A ,r a\' o:it of the d1ffic1;:.lty \Yould

])e that the missiona~ies should teach English in their schools, and that the GoYernment should com­ pel the children to attend. 2117. Q. Has tihe idea. of a K ati-ve Defender

e,·er occurred to vou ?--A.· I think the advantage accruing f rc:m it ~voul cl not justify the expense. zII8. Q. Do . you think the system of trial by

jury should be introduc~d in_ the T e rritory at the present time ?-A.. I think 1t would be a good

thing if it were feasible, and I think it. could be

done at certain centres, such as Samara1, Wood­ lark Port Moresbv, and possibly on the gold­

tield'.s. As it is, I think that the responsibility

which is cast upon me is too much for any one

man. I do not think any man should be trusted

with the pmrer o f life and death w_ithout the as­ sistance of a jury; but of co~rse . m cases of a

trivial nature I worulcl not advise 1t. I consider

that trial by jury is practicable _in the places I

haYe mentioned, and would adnse that charges ao-ainst "·hite men and all capital charges should b come before a jury. . . . . .

2 119. Q. It has been said. that 1t 1s.1mposs1ble t 0 get a white man to gfre evidence agamst another white man in favour of a. natiYe ?-A . I baYe ne,·er heard ~1w cases in the Central Court of such a

character: . 21 2o. Q . Supposing that condition w~re ~rue,

do you think trial by jury wou~d be a £au thmg_? -A. It would nc•t make any difference, because 1f

95

t. H. P. :Mutr&fJ 9th Nov., 1906.

the) refused to gi,·e evidence I coul

2121. Q. Do you think the time has, arri-red for <:lecti,·e rtpre ent1tion to the Legislati,·e Council? -A. Yes ; I tbink so. At the same time I do not

feel keenlr about it. 1 think the present system

of non-official members ,rill work ,rell. -

2122. Mr. H crbert.-Do \"OU think that instead of the Central Court following cases into each

di trict, se sions could be held at fixed points in

the Territon·, sa \' three ?-A. I think that could be arr.anged, u·ut it ,rnuld l..:e producti-re of incon­ ,·enience if you brought the R.jJ. 's down from th~ir Divisions, say from Kokoda to Samara,i . I do not think there is any necessity for me to go to Y cdda to try one case. It could easily be Lrought dO\rn

to Buna. There is a great difficulty in fixing dates ahead. It could be done where the mail s,teamers go. The Merrie England, of course, goes to suit the G°'·ernor.

TTNENTY-FOURTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 10TH KOVEl\1BER, 1906.

(THE ,COMMISSION MET AT "HILL WORTH," PORT l\foRESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K 1'IACKAY, C.B., i\I. L. C. (Chairman) ; W. E. P.arry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., :\Ir. Justice C. E. Herbert.

JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL

was further examined, as follows:-2r23. The C!zairman.-I understand that ,ou haYe further evidence fo offer ?-A. Yes. After I had appealed to Captain Barton for appointment as

R.:\I. I sent him oertain correspondenoe which I had sent to the Commonwealth, to Mr. B. R. Wisc and :\Ir. Staniforth Smith. The letters that I at­ tached were tho-se, three of which I have already handed in. I lost the one from l\Ir. Wise. I

hand in one from l\Ir. Staniforth Smith, dated uth April, 1904; also 20th September, 1904, from

Captain Barton1 acknowledging receipt of corres­ pondence submitted by me to S. Smith and B. R. Wise. In connexion with my tr.ansfer from Mekee, I omitted to mention that the late Chief J ustic;

took me to )Ir. Ballantine and requested him to me.­ duce certain books, of mine, which were at l\Iekeo. I told him where he could find them. l\fr. English had sighed for those books in duplicate, one for the Treasurer and one for himself. Mr. Ballantine

left for i\f ekeo in a few days. On his return, be

told me that he could not find them. I inquired

from )Ir. Jewell and Dr. Strong if they knew

anything of them. They did not, they said.

[ 21 24.] I will now go on with the Lands dela vs in

connexion with which the chief delays have · been occasioned by ihe R. )I. 's, and \Yant of proper sup­ port of the officer in charge of the Lands Deuar;· ment by the Administrator. One case in poi1;t. I

refer the Commission to, .is to be found in minm~ -pap.er 450 / 02, which will show the Commission

~. 1\, art..ttu, tt,

10tl O'Y, 1 1908,

6

th confu i n ari ing through the eads of De

partment not being informed of action taken.

L 212 5.] I no\\ proc~d to matters sno,ring f ~wom-1 m that ha, Leen in exi te11Ce for oyer two Years. and is the cau-e of di locating ociet\' and ill-feeling lJetwetn Departments. In connexion " t i1 .\11.

Brnce, there was a magi terial inquir), "hich was given against him in the ca e of Father Fillodeau. tle "as cautioned U) His Excellency-that it ,ms

) ou ha ·e referred t-A. I am not ,a\ ·are that His ~xcellency wa e\'er ma

not to occur again. 2126. Q. Does this case show fa\'oritism ?- .1. Yef 2127. Q. \Ve have the papers. Do you ,rant LO

say anythrng further alJout it ?-A. Xo. 2 L28. Q. Do you know any other case ?-:1. Y, ~­

I refer to the :\a.ipa case in 1905, in which it will

be shO\rn that His Ex<:ellency showed fa rnritism, as ,1r. ~Jusgrave told me that His Excellency toJ k considerable umbrage at my perspnal attack on )Ji . . Ballantine, the R. J\L I also refer to His Exc~ l­

lency's action in forcing upon Mr. }lusgrave, in

addition to his own departmental work, that of in­ spection of the work of other Departments. 2129. Q. How does this show favoritism ?-A. Because ir any discrepancies were discovered to exist since those ins,truct,ions, they would .reflect

upon .\lr. .\lusgrave. [2130.J

A~, ,a.11other instance of favoritism, I have seen l\Ir. Ballantine drunk. I saw him in that condition, and h~ fell on his verandah. His two native boys sup­ lJOrted him to his room. I have seen him frequently

under the influence of liquor. I know he has been absent from his office on several occasions for six days at ,a stretch. [2131.11 have seen l\Ir. Bruce Jrunk on three occasions at the Port 1\loreslJy hotel, and those three occasions were each since the inquiry

into the wore.ls usec.l bv him regarding Father Fillo­ deau. One of those , occasions was on 20th April last. Mr. Bruce was at that time at the dining table with se\'eral others. The room was crowded with

Go,,ernment officials. He used yen· indecent lan­ guage. I hand to the Commission, a statement of some of the words used by him. The statement was written by me immediately afterwards. l\Ir. Drum­

mond, Mr. Garrioch, and ":11r. Boucher were present on that occasion. The latter, Mr. Boucher, remon­ strated with 1\Ir . Bruce concerning his language.

2132. Q. Do you know if the drunken habits

of 1\Ir. Ballantine are known to His Excellency?­ A. Yes. I saw His Excellency leave 1\Ir. Ballan­ tine's house at about 3 p.m. the same day that I

had seen the latter fall on his yerandah and his

boys support him. It was on the day of a horse

race, and His Excellency went from the house to witness the race. 2133. Q. Are you quite sure 1\lr. Ballantine was drunk, and not otherwise ill on that occasion ?-A.

Quite certain. 2134. Q. Can you fix the time of any other occa­ sion "·hen )Ir. Ballantine w.as drunk ?-A. Yes, ,Yhen the Al errie Englalld had gone to Darn on one occasion, in 1905, he was drunk, and remained drink­

ing until the vessel's r 0 turn. He behaved in a most excitable manner during that time in his bouse, al­ most like a man in delirium tremens. I passed his house frequent! y on m ,. ,ray to the office, four times

a c.la,. and could hear him ncarh evel'\ ccasion.

On tl1e occa ion < f tlwse drinking Louts, ~Jr. B.allan­ tine absented him.self from his office. 2135. J/ r. 11 erbert.--Have YOU an\" reason to be­ lieYe that His Excellenc-v wa aware of Mr. Bruce's

behaYlOllr or drunkenness 011 the occasion tO which

21 36. lLwess.-In connexion ,vith )Ir. )lax As5-mann s app1icaL1on ±or 1 a.: re of land at Arupaka at the same time as the Hall !:,ound Company dill ±or other Lmd adJacent, in 1899, l think, 1 \\·ould like

to give eYidence. ln 1901, the company obtaine? a tHle for the land. . Ir. Assmann ,ms told to wan

for the sun ey of a ·Lownship. A Go\·ernment sur­ ve) or ,ms resid111g there, in r 901, for O'rer twelve months, and did not survey a tO\rnship. He was in­ structed to do so on the ~nd January, 1902, ,'.md, on

2nd July, 1905, by )Ir. H. H. Stuart H .. ussell, then at the head of the Lands Department. About six rnonths ago, iQl, Exe:cutive Council, Assmann ,ras granted halt an acre only, which he reluctantly ac-cepted.

2137. Q. 1-laYe you any other complaints to

make ?-A. Yes. I was on board the Lokoltu when Captain Barton made his first vis.it ,after my appoint­ ment as A.R.)1. He showed me a letter from Mr. Richmond, in connexion with the Veimauri country.

It was an application by l\Ir. Gors for a large area of land. The letter obJected to the Government re­ q uinng £300 additional deposit tor the application, because a deposit of .. I;.: 10 had already been paid as

deposit, and approved o± in Executive Council. l returned the letter to Captain Bartc;.,i. He was then R.l\I. of Central Division. He remarked that :Mr. R.ichmond and l\lr. }Iusgra-\·e were holding on tu

their .appointments with ten:1city when they were not required in the Possession, or words to that effect. When Mr. Drummond arriYed i.n the Lands Office, \\·hich ,ms since His Excellen~y's appointment, he

said that he ,rnuld do anything (he expressed himself in very low terms to explain himself) for 1\lr. Bal­ lantine which would giYe him (}Ir. Drummond) a hft along. As soon 1a.s ~i:r. H .. ichmood was sus­

pended, l am informed that :,Ir. Ballantine used his influence to get 1\Ir. Drummond appointed. 2138. The Chairman. - By " ·hom ,vere )GU in­ formed ?-A. By several. l beiieve, by Mr. Mat·

thews, 1\lr. Garrioch another. I am not certain

of the rest. 1\lr. ~lattbews applied for certai11

necessary articles ,vhe.n he was in charge 01 the office. 'l'he consideration of it was deferred by His Excellency. SulJsequently, ::\Ir. Drummond took charge, .and obtained the articles. He said to me, on

IE::ceipt of them, " You see I can get these things " ·hen others can't." 1 may add the:i;e is nothiµg he has re;quisitioned for since which he has not ob­ tained. I now refer to 1\Iinute Paper n6/05, S.E.

Division, particularly to His Excellency's minute thereon of 2Jrd April, 1906, eulogising 1\Ir. Drum· n,ond's work. I wish to sta.te that the arrears were not worked off then, or ar~ they now. When Mr.

D1:ummond made his annual report for last year ( 1905-6), I had eyerything readv for his supervision, with the exception of one or two items, including mis­ cellaneous computations. He drew my attention to

this. I told him there were no records kept to enable me to calculate them. He aid " We did more work tban Last year. Eighty were done then, say eight~ -six now." I declined to do so. On 5th }fay, 1906, :\Ir. Drummond tore up a grant which had been i sued

out of the office. This grant. Xo. r65, ,, a a. repeti­ tion of grant X o. 1 7, ,Yhich is now cancelled by

grant \O. 469. He tor it up in m~ pr sence. u ing

tlw "ords- - " Ther has het'n n. lot of fu. s about

te, '.uing papers lat ly. I'll tear them. anyh w." 2r39. J/r. Herbcrt.-What should ha.Ye been done "ith that grant? ll ... It shoul

Registrar of Titles, r lr. rummond. It certainly

should not have been destroyed. There has not been, so far as I am aware, a deed issued since .dr. Drum­ mond came to the office, the papers for which show any action since the drafts man was instruc(eli to

draw it out. The practice formerly was to send the p~pers and deed to the Government Secretary, with a mmute from the Chief Government Surveyor. The Go­ vernment Secretary ,rnuld then forward it to His

Excellency, who would, being satisfied, sign

the deed, a.nd \\·ith a minute return them

to the office through the Government Secretary. This practice was not now adopted. Mr. Drum­ mond sometimes takes them to Government House himself, sometimes the deed is sent by a clerk to

the Go~ernment Secretary without the papers. I have twice drawn Mr. Drummond's attention to this, and have also spoken twice to Mr. Musgrave. Mr. Drummond merely said, "Yes," and took no fur­

ther notice. The same practice has been in vogue in regard to mining leases. In Mr. Richmond's time I was never called upon to write out a deed a.

second time. On 5th May last, in Mr. Drum­

mond's time, grants 481 and 482, Granville West, were, owing to the error of the Chief Government Surveyor, drawn out on wrong forms, and had to be drafted againz. making altogether eight Crown

grants rene·wed and cancelled through his error. Deeds have been checked by the Departmental Re­ gistrar, Mr. Champion, and taken to his office with the papers concerning them. No deeds, I think,

should leave the office. Mr. Drummond is in the habit of taking papers which are in action from

the dockets into his room, dealing with them, and forgetting them, and som~ days after he has asked me for the same papers. ' I refer to paper rr81/96. 'These papers were handed by me to l\lr. Matthews

for preparation of grant on Mr. Richmond's instruc­ tions that a deed should issue. Whilst I was on

leave the papers were taken out of 1\lr. Richmond's room, placed in Mr. Drummond's room, at his re­ quest, a.nd ret1ained there. Consequently, on mv re­ turn, when I was preparing all the provisional

grants to fulfil the obligations of the Crown, during .i\lr. Drummond's absence on leave, I missed those papers. Therefore, there is no deed of grant,

0\11 ing to the Papua Act intervening, or, rather, to

ofncial delay. Another case of oflici'al blundering is the following :-I may say that for the first few months :Mr. Drummond was, after his appointment, in the habit, verv properly, of consulting Mr. Mat­

thews on every occasion, and most of the latter's time was taken up in advising him. In the case

of the Sacred Heart Mission's application, M. P. 1203 / 96 and 300A/92 he did_not con~ult Mr. ~at­ thews. The applicants were illegally m occupation, and were so informed by the Resident Magistrate.

They afterwards abandoned th~ site, ~nd_ after­ wards returned to it, and put m application for

8 acres of land. The Magistrate reported that, as the site was of importance, the area s_hould not ?e granted. The Government_ then promised the mis­ sion 1 acre at the site applied for, and 4 acres else­ where for a horse paddock. This was s~r~eyed by

Surveyor Tooth, and accepted by t?e mission. The papers went to Executive Council, and it was

ordered that deeds should follO\y · Mr· Jewell

(Temporary Acting Resident l\~agistrat~ of 1Iekeo) reported at length, and a history grren ,by the

Archbishop. On the strength of l\lr. Jewell s letter Mr. Drummond forwarded tb_e wh~1e of !he paIJf?S to His Excellency for reconside ration, ,nth certam ad\'ice from himself. His Excellency acceded to

Mr. Drummond's vie,vs, and noted tb~m for

ExecutiYe Council. r Ir. " Iatthews s_aw th1s. took the papers to 1Ir. Drummond, and pomted out that Jf, 1,1262.-G-

1

i. ll. Stua.rt-1tum11, 10th Nov., 1906.

th 1 atter \\'a alread) dealt with, and only await~d preparation of d ed. The papers thereupon did

not go to ExecutiYe Council. 2140. Mr. Herbert.-Was His Excellency in­ formed why his second minute was not carried out? -A. I cannot sa Y. I now find, on looking at the

J?apers, that the, matter was brought under His Excellency's notice, and did not go a second time before the Executive Council on his instructions. To show Mr. Drummond's incapacity, I may state

that when he ca.me into the office first he did not know how to properly wind a chronometer. I know be did not know how to read a barometer, because on two occasions he took the readings, and instead

of one reading that I noted, 29. 7 50, he had 28.130, and on the following morning he had a similar error. I asked him not to take them any more. Ever

since he has left it to me to do. In making out

the monthly returns for meteorological observations there ,vere necessary computations to be made. I was unable to make this computation. Mr. Drum­ mond said : " Well, get the nearest readings in

Mr. .L lattht\Ys' time, and make an estimate.'' I

declined to do it. l do not know how it was done. I left it for l\lr. Drummond. I got Mr. Garrioch

to do all the computations for the last annual re­ port. They were ready on Mr. Drummond's return from leave. l\lr. Drummond is incapable of mak­ ing such computations. Mr. Garrioch is the only

person in the service I know of in Port Moresby who can do this work since Mr. Matthews left.

As indicating the class of work with which the

Chief Government Surveyor is satisfied, I refer you to native transfer to the Crown of land in the Alaala. j\" aara District, prepared by Dr. Strong, Assis~

tant Magistrate, with papers 443/00. There

was certain land declared waste and vacant

by I\Ir. I\Ioreton, Resident l\lagistrate, South

Eastern Division, on 1\Iurua ( W oodla.rk), of

47 ac1es, about. I gave it to Mr. Sur­

veyor Ardlie to compute. He assured me his

tracing closed to within a few links. Mr. 1\Ioreton has been pronounced by former surveyors to be the best 1\Iagistrate on land matters in Papua. He, however, is severely denounced by Mr. Drummond

as the most incompetent. [ 2141.] Mr. Drummond has stated in evidence before the Commission that they (referring to the Lands ofiicers) used to carry minutes of His Excellency round the Land Office

and laugh at them. I canr.ot remember this ever being done. I do, however, remember His Excel­ lency sending a minute to Mr . Richmond, request­ ing him to report fully on the necessity of retain­ ing zone time, and if his reasons were not satis-£actory that local mean time should be adopted.

·fhat the Lands Office was to supply the Treasury with the time daily to enable the Treasury to give time to the vessels. Mr. Richmond requested Mr. Matthews to give his_ expert opinion on the subject, to which he added his own opinion. His Excellencv replied: "In the face of all your professional data',

still I must say I cannot see why apparent local

mean time should nut be adopted." Mr. Richmond replied that local mean time meant time taken by sun dial, which varied from 3 to 18 minutes, which would be disastrous to shipping, and zone time is universally adopted throughout British-speaking na­ tions; also that there would be 18 minutes lost for recreation. His Excellency replied : " In the face of the fact that 18 minutes' recreation would be

iost, I certainlv withdraw my request." When

Mr. Richmond received that document he handed it to 1Ir. Matthews, who had given his professional opinion, and certainly made a jocular remark. Wh:~t it was I forget, more especially as His Excellency

had m'ade a query under his with

t. tt. Stuart.ttumit, 10th Nov., 1906.

g

commas, "What is tone time?" 1\Ir. Drummond was pres nt, and took part in the jocularity. When \Ir. Drummond came to the office as head, he told me that His Excellency wished to adopt local mean

time, but, owin~ to the professional opinion ori­ ginal! y expressed, he had requested His Excellency not to urge it. I remember no other occasion when ther ,ms laughing at His Excellency's minutes.

[2142.J Official decorum was always maintaineu prior to :.Ir. Drummond's reign, but certainly not since. I should be sorrv to refer to the words 1

have heard him use. The remarks he makes of

::\Ir. Richmond and :.Ir. Markwell are simply dis­ graceful. i\lr. i\Iarlmell submitted a plan in ac­

cordance with his field-book, which showed a varia­ tion by figures, but was not (nor could it have been) shown by the plan. i\lr. Drummond ran the ruler O\·er the plan, and said, "These are parallel lines,"

and added these worcls-[.H ere witness ltandcd i11 tlte words used, written by ltim on paper]. [2143.J Papers Nos. 107/04, 450/04, and 604/04 I no,r refer to. ln connexion with these the last action

\\·as a Jetter written by r.Ir. Richmond to the Resident i\Iagistrate, Eastern Division, seeking particulars about certain irregularities. To those letters there is no reply. i\Ir. Drummond gaYe them to me to file

away, and to note the books, "Consider deposits re- · turned." I did not note the books. These applica­ tions are made bY Mr. Solomon, Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Too,th. I should now like to give evidence re­

g::uding the Treasurer and his Department. From my first arrival in office we could seldom get informa­ tion from the Treasury. Our main source of in­ formation, therefore, was from Burns, Philp,

and Company, who acted a~ agents for the

people making the inquiries. We never could

issue a receipt from the Lands Office until \Ye got one from the Treasury, and we frequent] y had to ,rait two days for that. l\lr. Gors came from S\'ll­ ney' and asked for information in connexion ,vith

his Dede] e property. All that appeared on our

papers was that he had deposited £5. At any

rate, 1\Ir. Richmond asked the Treasurv for infor­ mation. The reply was that £5 on'iy ,ms re­

ceived as per Treasury books. :i\lr. Gors then said that he knew of a Treasury receipt he had for over £30 for the same application, but it was in SYcl­ ney. Three days afterwards the Treasury dis­

covered that there was £30 odd in addition to the £5 paid by him. Mr. Ballantine was Tr.=;asurer then. Another instance: Papers n6oF /98 K.E. Division. Application by C. Vaughan, on behalf

of the Musa Company. Certain partners of the

company wrote from Sydney asking for information

without ttaw.J' Continue

:\Iatthews to Captain Barton, with no aYail. l)rac­ ticalh-, :\Ir. Richmon ct and nw brother faced im · pos ibilities to work up arrears" since 1888, ,rithout proper support. The office was onh· really openeJ

in 1901. There was no recording clerk. :\1r.

Richmond and my brother ,rere frequently l>y them­ selves. I entered the office in 1904, neYer haring­ been in an office before, to learn my duties, which handicapped :.I'r. Richmond and 1:\Ir.. :\lat

February, r904. I completed filing, dating, and

attaching the papers by the 28th i\Iarch, 1905. I

completed drafting all papers relating to Crown grants, and noting the books and filing the same in the strong room on the 1 oth ~Ia y, 190 5. 1

then commenced drafting Crown grants, assisting :.Ir. Matthews, which I have now fulfilled br tbe 20th June, 1906, with the exception of one ,rl-iich I have referred to, and which was displaced by )lr.

Drummond, and eight provisional grants, which \\·ere prepared by l\lr. Drummond. Therefore, it was due to Mr. Matthews and myself that the

pledges and arrears of work were fulfil led. In

this connexion I would refer to His Excellenc\''s minute of 24th April, 1906 ( Jo. u6-05 pape.r).

[2145.J The only method that i\Ir. Drummond has adopted not previously in vogue in the Lands De­ partment is the enumeration of the gold mining leases. Under the old sys.tern, we numbered mining leases

consecutively, in order of their issue, from our De­ partment. The last number reached under this

system was 81. Mr. Drummond altered this sys­ tem by jumping the number of the next gold mining lease issued to Ko. 151, so as to coincide with the IJumber of the last application made to the War­

den at Woodlark. He intends to follow this plan. The results will be found to be chaotic when it is remembered, that any application for a gold mining lease to a Watden may be refused. That number

must ther:efore lapse, in order to make the next

lease agree ,rith the next application number. It must also be remembered that there are more than one Warden in the country, all possessing the po,rer to receive applications for mining leases, and each

one using the number in his own application regis­ ter, so that the plan adopted must fail. And

\\·hen mineral leases are issued in this countrv, the err~r . will be duplicated. Each Register - Book

spoiled represents a loss of £5.

TWENTY-FIFTH DAY.

MONDAY, I2TH iOVE:\IBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT "HILLWORTH," PORT MORESBY.)

Present:

.Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, i\I.L. C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq. I.S.0., :.\Ir. Ju tice C. E. Herbert.

JOHN R. STt ART-R'C' SELL

C.B._.

as to deposits, &c. After many days of delay, tl'f Treasury accounted for £47 16s. 8d. out of £ 163 16s. that is shown by the papers to be paid. This

o::curred 18th July, 1901, in i\Ir. Ballantine's time. Ever since the Ricnmond case has caused a stir in Australia, and since i\1r. Drummond has been in office, twice a week, Saturdays and Sundays, the Acting Trea~urer has been practically in occupation of the Lands Department with Mr. Drummond.

All this sudden energy displayed now by the Ad­ ministration was wanting previously. · They now seem to want to straighten up the Departments. The Lands Office needs this, not from neglect of

those who have been there hitherto, but from want of support from the Administrator. [ 2 r 44. J :\I y brother used to sit up to 1 o'clock nearh· Yer\·

night working until he ruined his health, -and in Executive Council, ha,·ing appea,l d for upport, he made the remark, for which he had to apologize to was further examined, a. follows:-the then Administrator: ·" I only know of one

c::imilar instance, and that appears in the Scripture . ,\ lien Pharaoh ordered the people to make bricks

.2146. T lze C_lzairman,.-You have ome further evidence you wish to offer?-A. I wish to say that my first evidence in reference to prm·isional grants

\\-as ~lwt no paper ~o,ved that tho e gr,rnt were

submitted by me or signed by His. Excellency. In those papers I handed in, Captain Barton state

that I was not to take any action without the Go­

vernment Secretary's authority. Therefore I at­ ta~h~d a minute to the Government Secretan·, sul>­ m1t_tmg the pape_rs in toto, and pointed oiit am· action that requued attention. His Excellenc~

m_ade re~erence to my minute only in connexioi1 ,nth action nece~sary, but has omitted to sign

the paplers submitted. I now refer to official

blu_ndering. I handed in a description to the

~hief Government Surveyor of a provisional grant m favour of John Oberleuter for 200 acres of land at Rapa (Hall Sound). The number of the grant I believe to be 86. l\Ir. Drummond stated that

my_ ". descr_iption was wrong," and he wrote a de­ scnption .himself and handed me draft to write in the usual ,Crown grant fonns.. Before writincr it I .d "D · b ' sai . , o you wish me to copy this exactly ver-batt1n to your description? " He said, "Yes."

I then completed two copies and took it to him

to be checked. He found then that his description was wrong, and would not close within two chains. He said, "Oh,. it will have to do, anyhow." It

has since been gazetted for issue.

2 I47. The Witness.-! now hand in to the Com­ mission a statement s.howing officers in Papua who have had disagreements with Mr. Ballantine, the Treasurer. I now refer the Commission to the

minute papers described in the list which I now put in. They are number:ed 1 to 7 and 9 to 14.

I _ put the papers in. They show the delays and

irregularities in the Lands Office. 2148. The Witness. - I recommend that the

Armed Native Constabularv should be encouraged to get married. ·

2149. Q. Why do you recommend this ?-A. The wives could keep their gardens, and it wouh:1 en­ courage the best class of natives to join the police, and my experience up to 1903, when I was A.R.M. in charge of police in the K orthern and Central

Divisions, was that the police \Yere thoroughly un­ reliable and insubordinate during patrol duty, be­ cause being led by desires they would capture

women and neglect instructions. [ 2150. J I am in favour of the Government undertaking all the re­ cruiting in the Territory.

2151. Q. Do you consider it would be good to

tax the natives under Government control ?-A. Undoubtedlv, in labour or in kind. I think that

in settled districts all natives should be called upon to immediately mark off their land within six

months from date of notification, at the end of

which period all lands remaining unmarked should be declared Crown lands, and that surveyors should be detailed to survey and describe, and I also

recommend a compulsory purchase clause should be enacted. 2152, John R. Stua.rt-Russet1L---:-" Officers of Papua who have had dis.agreements with the Honor­

able thl~ Treasurer" : 2153. (1) H. H. Stucl:rt-Russell, ~hief Surveyor. --The chief cause of disagreement 1s to be found in the annual report for 1899 or 190?, in a report

written by the Chief Surveyor relatmg to an ex­ pedition over the "Gap " in tl~e I?ain ra?ge, where :\fr. Ballantine disregarded his mstruct10~s. Se­ condly, Mr. Ballantine's gen~ral obstruct10n . and opposition to his professional views, more esepcially

in Works Department. ::.\fr. H. Stuart-Russell re­ signed.

j, it Stnnrt-Rum11, 12th No-:,, 1006.

e pcciall) from lack of information relating to

who voted for Mr. Richmond's suspension in Ex­ ecutive Council. 2155. (3) Captain Rothwell had several dis­ agreements o\·er requi itions for stores and money matters in connexion with the Al crrie England. Captain Rothwell was dismissed for incompetency.

2156. (4) E. J. Matthews had several differences with the Trea urer officialh·, and in spDrts matters, ;md was upersedecJ by -1\Ir. Drummond. He

eventual] y resigned. 2157. (5) J. R. Stuart-Russell had several dif­ ferences concerning magisterial matters and requisi­ tions with l\Ir. Halantine. He (J. S.-R.) was

disrated. 2158. (6) Survepr l\Iarkwell experienced great difficulty in obtaining competent native employes. He obtained a suitable crew, but Mr. Ball an tine

replacerl them with natives totctlly unsuitable. · Work was consequently delayed, and it caused Mr. l\J ar kw ell certain experiences hitherto unknc,m1 to him in work undertaken in the field. At the re­

quest of His. Excellency he resigned. 2159. (7) His Honor Chris. Robinson, late Act­ ing Administrator. For attempting to straighten up the Departments, more especially the Treasury, he, Chris. Robinson, became the recipient of slurs

and denunciations, even under the roof of Go­ vernment House, and had not a friend to appeal to."

CHARLES GRANT GARRIOCH was sworn and examined, as follows:-2160 . The Clzairman.-What is your name?­ A. Charles Grant Garrioch. I am Chief Clerk in the Government Secretary's Department, Audit

C~rk, nnd Registrar of the Central Court. :n6r. lJ!r. Herbert.-Ha-re you at any time this year been present in the Port l\foresbv Hotel at the same time as l\Ir. Drummond, :\Ir. Boucher, )Ir. Bruce, and l\lr. Stuart-Russell ?-A. Yes.

2162. Q. On any ·such occasion this year have you seen Mr. Bruce the worse for liquor ?-A .. Yes. 2163. Q. Once, or more than once ?-A. I have seen him the worse for liquor more than once this year. , 2164. Q. What was the date of the occasion

when you saw him the worse for liquor in the com­ pany of the gentlemen I have named ?-A. It was some time after the murder of Weaver, which

occurred, I belieYe, in the early part cf April. It was oru the 20th April, 1906. 2165. Q. Wer,e there any other persons present than those I have mentioned ?-A. There were a good many Governn1ent officials present that dav. An extra table was added to accommodate the ext~a number.

2166. Q. How did Mr. Bruce behave on that occasion ?-A. He used rather filthy language at the table. 2167. Q. Do you remember any of the lan­

guage ?-A. Approximately, yes. 2168. Q. On what did the conversation hinge? -A. After the death of Weaver the Intestate Es­ tates took over his property, and there were some

fowls to be disposed of. Tenders were called, and I believe )Ir. Drummond purchased those fowls. At table the conversation turned on this matter, and it was then that Mr. Bruce made the dirty

reference, putting filthy questions to i\f r. Druni­ mond.

2154. (2) John Richmond had many disagree­ ments with. the Treasurer on official matters, more G2

21_69 . Q. Did any one remonstrate with him?­ A. I beliei'e Mr. Boucher said somethin n- to him at the time. 0

0. G. Gf.rriooh, 12th No1'., 1906,

10

2170. Q. In what tone wa the language . JOk n? -A .. Loud enough for everybody at table to hear. 2 I 7 1 . Q. About how many were present ?-A.

About ten or twelve; there may haYe been more. :? 1 7 ::! • Q. Did you see him later on in that

~173· Q. You say he was under the influence of drink. To what extent?-A. He could still

walk. He would not haYe behaved like he did

,yere he sober. He was decidedly intoxicated. 2174. The Chairman.-You might write down 1 he ,rnrds he used if you remember ?-A. It is

p1inful for me to do so, but I will dOI so if you

,yish me. [Witness wrote down words on paper and k.11dcd it in.] 217 5. Q. You said that if 1\Ir. Bruce had been sober he would never haYe beha.ved li.ke he cli.d.

Arn I to, understand from that that 1\fr. Bruce's conYersation and language, when sober, are that of a gentleman ?-A. Yes.

(Twenty-sixth Day. See under " Richmond" Case.)

TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY.

WED~ESDAY, 14TH NOVEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL 'CHAMBER, PORT MORESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C. B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., 1\Ir. Justice C. E. Herbert. Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

CYRIL H. BOUCHER

was further examined, as follows:-2176. Mr. Herbert.-Have you, during the course of this year, seen Mr. Bruce at the Port

Moresby Hotel drunk ?-A. No, I have not. 21 77. Q. Have you s1een him during the same time under the influence of liquor-excited by

liquor ?-A. Yes, I have seen him slightly-perhaps by liquor, but as to that I cannot say. 2178. Q. Was there ai,ything else you saw that would haYe excited him, if not liquor ?-A. Very

probably it was liquor; but other things in this

climate often excite people He might have had a little more than usual. 2179. Q. Did you hear him, on that occasion, use improper or indecent language in conversation

at the dining table at lunch time ?-A. On one oc­ casion he did make use of a few ordinary swear ,rnrds, but nothing in particular. That was on

one occasion when he ,yas excited in the manner I

r.Ir. Bruce wa talking a good deal in loud tone .

He al o made use 'Of a r mark which might haYe been interpreted as being indecent by any per on who had an evilly dispc ed mind. There was one person in that room whom I knew to be a per­

sonal enemy of :\Ir. Bruce,. and ,vhom I thought very probably might put a wrong construction on :Mr. Bruce's remarks, and make use of the same to J\Ir. Bruce's disadvantage. That is why l remon-

strated. 2182. Q. Who was the person ?-A. Ir. Russell.

TIIE HONORABLE DAVID BALLANTINE, M.L.C.,

was further examined, as follows:-

have mentioned. '.! 180. Q. Did the di. cussion then bear upon

some fowls which had been sold in the Weaver Estate ?-:1. Yes, I started that conver ation. 2181. Q. \Ver t],e words used by i\Ir. Bruce

ufficien 1y be\'Ond c.h.:-:ency as to cause )OU to re­ mon trate with him ?-.1. Yes, but with a proviso.

2183. The Cltairman.-You have asked to give evidence with 11egard to some statements which have been ma.de about vou. The Commission will be glad to hear you ?_.::__A, The first matter is in

regard to Mr. Haughton's evidenae. He says he was 'not treat\ed with common civility 1when he landed at Port Moresby. I gave him a copy of

the General Instructions to Office~s, and gave him some work to do in the Treasury, and told him that he would get full instructions at Samarai in regard

to his work there. The question of quarters at

Samarai was settled by the Administrator. Mr. Haughton was never promisied more than one room. In connexion with the question of his suspension, the papers have been sent to the Commission, so it is unnecessary for me to make any remark. With

reference to cutting down the creepers at hi.s quar­ ters, I have to sav that theJ were destroying the

timber of the building, and I ordered them to be cut down. He has never applied for an increase of salary since I have been Treasurer. · Mr.

Haughton states that I have never given him de­ finite instructions in regard to shipping. This is incorrect, as I al ways give instructions when

asked. [2r84.] As to l\Ir. Gill's evidence, he says that no materials were sent to him to carry out the duties of Postmaster. The materials were to be transferred from the post-office at K.ulamadau, and

this was done. I was present at Bonagai at the

time, and full instructions were given, and full requisitions made out for still further materials which were required to equip the office. Instruc­ tions appear in the order-book at Bonagai, and

there are copies here. Mr. Gill was not asked if

he would undertake the duties of Postmaster, as it has always been the rule that officers are directed to do any Government work that may be required. There is a question of some complaints made

against 1\Ir. Gill, and his method of carrying on the post-office work. I was passing through Sa­ mara~, going on lea·re, on the 14th December, 1905, and mspected the work of the Po tmaster at Sa­

marai. He made a number of complaints against the Postmaster at Bonagai. I simply wrote a

minute to the Administrator, \\ho was in the East­ em Division at the t:rme, calling his attention

to the statement of the Po-tma ter at amarai

about the incompleteness of the Bonagai mail , and further action was taken after I had left for

England. I mention this be ause he states that I

had censured him without giving him an opportu­ nity of r porting on the matter. I never ,note to

him at all on the ubject. I produce papers

662 05 G. S .. and other paper , 384- and 778 o~.

and instructions to requi ition for further materials are shown here also. - [r. Haughton states that I told him to report the matter. :ih statem nt to

~fr. ~~ugh ton was to put down hi · Y rbal charges 1n wntrng.

21~5: lib. Herbert.-Why did you write fo the Adm1m~trator without first obtaining a report from Bonaga1 ?-A. The Administrator was in the Ea t ­ ern Division and would probably go to Bonagai. I was just leaving for England, and was only at

Samarai for a few hours. 2186. Q. Who was acting as Chief Postmaster? -A. Mr. Champion. 2187. Q. Could not the matter haYe been left in

his hands ?-A. I wrote to the Administrator, as

he was in the Eastern Division, and was probablv going to Bonagai, and he was also familiar with the directions which were issued to the Postmaster at Bonagai, as he had arranged the details on his last visit there.

2188. Q. Do the papers show that any reproof was administered to J\fr. 'Gill by His Excellency?­ A. No. He was told afterwards that his work

was satisfactory. A copv of my statement was

sent to him, in which I h ad stated that the Post­

master at Samarai had made these complaints. 2189. Q. Did it not result in a ouasi reproof

being administered to him without giving him an opportunity of defending himself, which he could have done successfully ?-A. There w.as no reproof administered. The action taken was a letter from

the Acti.ng Postmaster, elated the 15th January, r qo6. I may say that the Administrator eventually did not go to Bonagai. 2190. Mr. Okeden.- \Vhich of the two officers was found to be at fault ?-A. Mr. Haughton had somewhat misrepresented matters.

2 r 9 r. Q. Are you sure the Administrator di,d not administer any reproof to the postmaster at Bona­ gai ?-A. The Administrator administered no cen­ sure to him.

2192. Witness. -There is a complaint by Mr. Gill which I do not understand-that is , about tbe appropriation on roads. I am ready to. supph· ~11 \ · information in regard to stores supplied to Mr.

Gill from the books. Strict accounts are kept of

all stores in the Treasury. 2193. Mr. Herbert. - Was there any v,)te hst

vear for Woodlark ?-A. I cannot say from memory, but I will send to the Treasury for the informa-

tion. · . _

2194. H'itness.-In regard to the complaint about the cash-books, the cash-hooks forwarded from P~rt Moresby were sufficie nt for the purpose. Mr. Gill calls them rough cash-books. They are reall y

well-bound books. 2195. Mr. Okeden.-He said he h~~ .a certain number of cash-books, and he reqms1t10ned for others in lieu of those ?-A.' H e requisitioned for ad

219 6. Q. And he was asked whv he wanted the additional ones ?-A. As far as I can g3:ther, he

wished new cash-books for the new finanC1 1al year, and we sent two more cash-books, the same as he had in hand. 21 97. Q. Six months after, was it not ?-A. I

was at Bonagai early in July, 1905, and spent three davs auditing the books. No further cash-b

2198. Witness.-There is also a question. of an unexpended balance for a gaoler at Bonagai. 2199. The Chairman. :-- Tha~ has b_ee_ n looked into, and has been explamed satJsfactonlJ, so you need not go into that. . .

22oo. liVitness.-There is nothing further m l\f r. Gill's e,·idence. There is a question r~ferrPd . to

by Jucl ge l\furray in regard to dt:;lay rn dealmg

David Ballantine, 14th Nov., 1906.

with Graham' application for laP.d during my time as Resident )fagi trate. I wish t~ state tha! dur­

inc, the time I was acting as Resident ~Iagistr~te I was also Treasurer, and very seldom did outside work. 2201. T Ile C lzairman.-Judge Murray says you passed through the place seYeral times, and took i:o steps about this land at all. Is that so ?-A. It ls

absolutely certa;n that I could not have pa.s~ed through several times. I absolutely denv havmg passed through several times. The land was at

Hula. 2202. O. Did you pass through Huh at all?­ A. Yes, ( remember pa,ssing through Hula on one occasion. I have not seen tbose papers, and woul

matter were !zand ed to witness]. The papers. l1ave neYer b€en jn my bands. They are not minuted

to me. 2203. Mr. Herbert. - There is a reference to

Your predecessor as Resident Magistrate ?-A. Jes. The Res; dent Magistrate wr1s requested to attend to this matter on the 14th January, T900. Cap­

tain Barton was Magistrate then. He went on

leave ear 1 v in February, and then I took over the office. I , was also appointed Acting Government Secretary, Mr. Musgrave going on leave at the same time. I was Acting Resident Magistrate,

Treasurer, and Acting Government Secretary at the same time, and did not leave Port Moresby. It

was in Judge Robinson's time. 2204. O. Were those papers in the office of the Resident Magistrate. Central Division. at tbe time you were Resident Magistrate ?-A. I expect thev were.

220 5. Q. When were they minuted bac~ after that minute to the Resident Magistrate ?-A. They are minuted back on the 10th March, 1906. 2206. Q. As dea:lt with ?-A. Yes. I wish fo

state that I was Actiln_g Government Secretary from roth fonuarv to 15th Tune, 1904. anrl I was Resi­

2207. Q. When did you go to Hula? - A. I

passed through Hula on my way back from Sama­ rai. That was September, 1904. I was then Resi­ dent l\Iagi\strnte. 2208. T!ze Chairman. - Why did you take no action when you were at Hula ?-A. I went down as Treasurer to Samarai to inspect the accounts. and, expecting to come back in a steamer, I did

not take my magisteri:al papers with me. I had

three offices to supervise at once, and my hands were quite full. 2209. 11.fr. Okeden.-Is that the only time you went through Hula during the time you were Resi­ dent Magistrate ?-A. That was the only time, so far as I can remember.

2210. Mr. Herbert. - Were any remilnders sent which you received during your term as Resident ::\Iagistrate? - A. Reminders were sent on 12th August, 1904, and 4th October, 1904. I was then Resident Magistrate, but was shortly after relieved.

2211. (). Are there any other remi'nders? -

A. That is all that are here.

2212. The Chairman.-If you have said rull vou , ·ish to on that point, will you proceed ?-A. J u

every time the Adm:~1istrator has asked mv advi<'e 1 haYe given it lo\'allv and con:icientioush;. I do not kno;r of any ·groimc1s upo n which this state·­ ment ·is based. I ro:1sider it simply malicious.

David Ballantine, 14th , ov., 1900.

102

Ther are some other -rague tatements made against me which it is difficult for me to repl to, on ac­

count of their Yagueness. I refer to such state­

ment as ' in ane assumption of authority,'' and

would ask, if there is any truth in it, that papers

be produced supporting the statement. I am also charged with attempting to rule all the Depart­ ment . I would ask that definite instances be

quoted. His Honor continues. to state: " As for

myself, I ha Ye only come three times into collision with any Department since I came, and each time it was with the Treasurv. Each time it was whilst :.fr. Ballantine was here, and never whilst he was

away. :.Iy first case is the Bunting case." May I

ask if you ha,·e the papers? 2213. T!te Clwirman.-Yes. 2214. Wifness.-The question was whether it was legal to allow the boys to go down in Bunting's

boat. His Honor ruled that it was illegal. I had

a conversation " ·ith His Honor, and pointed out that recruits had hitherto al ways done this, that these boys had been signed on already, and I

thought should be allowed to go. It would have

been an unjust act, and appear like persecuting

Bunting1 if they were stopped. His Honor would not alter his de6sion, but su~gested an equally il­ legal alternative, that they might on Gors' boat or the 111 oresby. Under the circumstances, rather than commit an unjust act, I allowed Bunting's boat to

go with the boys. 2215. Mr. Herbert.-Did it not strike you that His Honor was better able to give an opin-ion than yourself ?-A. Yes.

2216. Q. And you a

thought was my duty as a Resident Magistrate, as I am ur.der oath to try and be just. I would state

that I have been working under the Labour Act ever since it has been passed, a.nd was justified by pre­ cedent in what I was doing. 2217. Q. Can you tell me another case where

boys were ser:t away by a magistrate after the

magistrate had received the a.dvice of, the Chief Judicial Officer that such action would be illegal ?­ A. No, I cannot.

2218. Q. Would you act again similarly in a

similar case ?-A. Ko. I may state that His

Honor accompanied me to Mr. 1\Ius:grave's house, " Hill worth,'' under the impression that if Mr.

Musgrave would agree to Bunting takir.g the boys, he would have been willing, but Mr. Musgrave abso-lutely refosed. 2219. Tlze Cltairman.-Did His Honor say any­

thing to give you that impression ?-A. His Honor stated, " Let us go out and see Mr. Musgrave, and take a copy of the Act,'' and we wer:t out together. 2220. Q. Was that all he said to you ?-A. That

was all. 2221. l/fr. Herbert.-How do you reconcile that last answer to th_e Chairman with your previous statement that His Honor would not alter his de­

cision. He uggested other courses ?-A. Yes. he

took that action yourself, that the Resicler:t ~Ia gis­ t rate Incl recommend d the can" l lation of the

lir< ,we ?-A. Yes. I hacI :i }etter from the R sident :.bgistrate. Eastern Division, stating that t.he

li en ~ h:Hl been ancelled, and surrgestir:g that he b .1llmYrcl to take these boys back, as arrangE'ment. had been made about them before the lie nces had be n cancelled.

2223. Q. Did you know that His Excellency had a.pproved of the cancellatior. of the licence ?-A. ~o, speaking from memory. 2224. Q. As a result of your action, what l1ap-

pened ?-A. I apologized for disregarding His

Honor's opinion. 2225. Q. Did you .also say, "I recognise now the mistake I have made" ?-A. I said omething which implied that.

2226. Q. Did you say that you ought to have

obeyed your superior officers ?-A. I think I said that. 2227. Q. Can you re.member or:e single minute of · the Governor's which might be read in the light

of a censure ?-A. I read that the Gm·ernor' s minute was a great censure to me, because he said that the Government Secretary's instructions should have been carried out.

2228. Q. ·what was the strongest terms used or: you by the Governor ?-A. I think he accepted my apology. 2229. Q. Had the ship gone faom here when the

Government Secretary would have been in a posi­ tion to insist ?-A. The Government Secretary had r.o opportunity of inter'fering. The ship had gone. 2230. Mr. Herbert.-Was Mr. Musgrave at this time the Senior Executive Officer in Port Moresby

in the absence of the Governor ?-A. Yes. 2231. Tillitness.-In the matter of the hawker's licence referred to by Judge U urra y. His Honor states that we came into collision about the hawker's

licence. I simply received an applicatior.. from

Thursday Island asking if a licence w.as necessary. I did not gather that it was necessary to send this for legal advice. As Treasurer, I should know what fees are generally paid. On this occasion I replied

it was r,,ot necess.arv. because I never had seen a fee collected since I had been Treasurer, although there are many traders in the Territory. I acted in com-plete good faith in the matter.

2232. Tlte Cltairman.-Do not the records prove that you had acted contrary to the advice of the

Chief Judicial Officer ?-A. I was wrong, but I acted in good faith. 2233. The Witness.-The third point is about ir> correct advice in regard to fees payable under the

Pearf Shell Ordinance. This charge I believe to be simply malicious, as I believe that His Honor is aware that the papers containing his opinion did not reach the Treasurer uetil a"fter all action had

been taken. There was, therefore, no question of disobeying His Honor's legal advice. The Trea­ sury Aocountant can give evidence on this matter. 2234. Tlte Cltai.rman.-Did the Accountant act en

his own initiative, and did he ask the Chief Judi­ cial Officer for an opinion before he acted ?-A. He did not ask for an opinion. It was a straight­

forward matter, .and sh0uld not have r:eeded advice. He made a mistake, and corrected it at once. We cannot, of course, consult the Chief Judicial Officer on every matter of fees which arises. We ought to

be informed in the Treasurv. I "·ould state that

the first advice His Honor· ent clmYn was incor­ rect; I do not know for what reason, but I ask

that the Treasurv Accountant be asked to state what happened. 2235. Tlte Chairman.-Yes, of course. 2236. The Tritness.-There are two matters I ,roul 1 "·ish to mention to . how that Hi. Honor

i not infallible in the action taken sc·netimes. ne matter is a recent one. The Execulive Council at the last m eting decided that two of Weaver·s mur­ der rs were to be executed. The

. ickring the tim of th ex cution ,ms brought for­ ,rard, and the Head aol r was sent for. H in-

103 Davicl Ballantine, 14th ov., 1906.

forme

cas 11 d" · e ouncil t u

d ua hy _is~overed that this promise had been a :,·e11 an t e rnformatio d h · b' '

life ar.d d 11 ma e t e difference between

· . · e;.th to the man. I consider that such an

import~nt i.act s?ould have been elicited in His

Honor s .Court. The Council altered the decision,

f and l~fl:e sentence was commuted to penal servitude or 1 e.

.d22 37.· Mr. H erbert.-\Vho promised this man con­ si eration ?-A· The Head Gaoler ·

~ 2 38. Q. Did the Head Gaoier inform His

Hcnor ?- A. I think not.

2239. Tlte TVitness.-Another instance is that a n:w.n w;a,s sentenced to death in the Korthern Divi­ s~on. . I he senter.ce was commuted bv the Executi,·e C~uncil to twelve months' penal se.rvitude or im­ rrnsonment, as the case may be. The man remained

m gaol several months after the expiration of bjs senter:cE: of twelve months, and was under sentence of death the whole time. His Honor recein·s

three-monthly reports of prisoners, and with ordi­ nary supervision this ought to have been noticc"'d. r. understand that the man was senter.ced about eighteen months ago.

2240. Mr. Herbert.- Was the Exec utive Council order made before or after the expiration of u1 e

twelve months ?-A. Shortly after the sentence I understand. He was in the K orthern Division g~ol. 2241. Q. In what Department is the gaol at Port Moresby ?-A. The Head 'Gaoler's.

2242. Q. To whom is he responsible ?-A. The Government Secretary. 2243. Q. Who has charge of the gaol in the

Northern Division ?-A. The Resident Magistrate I should think. '

2244. Q. To whom is he responsible ?- A. The

Government Secretary. 2245. Q. To whom do the divisional gaols fur­ nish returns three-monthly ?-A. To the Chief Judi­ cial Officer and the Government Secretary, I be-

lieve. ,

2246. Q. Is there a Sheriff of the Territory?­ A_. Yes. 2247. Q. Who ?--A. I do not know j but l\Jr.

Bruce is at mesent Acting Sheriff. 2248. Q. When was he appointed ?-A. A few days ago. 2249. Q. Was he appointed a few days ago be­ cause of the execution which took place to-day?­

A. Yes. 22 ~o. T!te vVitness.-There is a statement bv Judg~ Murray that " there is an old feud betweer1 Mr. Musgrave and Mr. Ballantine, which dates back, I believe, to the days of Sir George Le Hunte,

and Mr. Musirave, in consequence, suffe_rs f~om the !:iostility of tlie Administrator, who submits him to a series of petty humiliations which must be almost rnaddeninCT." I would ask for papers about the feud which is supposed to have existed in Sir George Le Hunte's time. I venture to submit that His

Honor is scarcelv competent to comment upon the relations behveen -the Departments during Sir George Le Hunte's time. Would it be of any use for

Sir George to be referred to? It is a very impor­

tant point. 2251. Tlte Clzairman.-Are there no pa:pers which it would be possible to look up. _We might rret a statement from His Honor to elucidate these

b . "I

points ?-A. Yes. Another statement ~s: _say

tbat Mr. Ballantine's influence was specially notice­ able in the Executive Council, where practically his voice is supreme.'' I consider t_his an _absurd state­ ment. At the Executive Council meetings, held at

Port Mor.esby, there are gen~r~lly four _members, with a vote each and the Adm1mstrator, with a vote and a casting ;ote, Another complaint is : " :Mr.

ymon , for in tance, a clerk in Mr. Ballantine's

oflice, came up here and complained to ~lr. Mus­ gra,·e about the ,rnr ..\lr. Ballantine talked to him." I_ \\'ould a k that particula rs be giren by the prin­

c1pc1ls in thi matter. This charge is based simply upon hear a·. There are a lot of Yague statements made, "·hich I c:mnot reply to on account of their ,·agueness.

2252 . Q. Do you mean that ,ou demand some­ Ling more specific ?- A. I wouid like particulars and papers referring to the following charges:­ " Every man who ,has quarrelled ,rith :.\lr. Ballantine has incurred the hostilit,· of the Administrator."

2253. Q. You will 1{otice that Hi. Honor gives particulars. Will it be sufficient for mu if we are guided by the papers ?- A. Yes. Tl~en the re is a

question of wbat His Honor describes as a savage min,ute written to l\[r. l\Iusgrave. 2254. Tlte Cltairman.-That, again, is a matter of comparison. H e asks us to contrast this minute,

which he calls savage, with a minute which was written to_ yo_u in ref~rence to tbe Bunting case. J_'hat , ~gam, 1s a CJUest10n upon which the Commis­ srnn mll have the papers submittedz. and it will be sirr:pl y. a _question of comparing the two papers-­ which is nght or wrong.

2255. Tltc Witness.-1\fr. Matthews is mentioned a.s one person whom I quarrelled with, and I never had a quarrel with him. When the Richmond case came on I took the side of the Administrator, and

two factions were then formed . 22.56. Tlte C!tairman.---Do you wish us to under­ stand that up to the time of the Richmond case

Mr. Matthews and vourself were on friendly terms? -A. We never had much to do with one another. 2257. Q. Much or little, were your relations

friendly ?-A. I 'have never quarrelled with Mr. Matthews. · 2258. Q. I must ask you to give an answer to

my question, whether up to the time of the Rich­ m?nd case ~Ir. Matthews and yourself were on friendly official terms ?-A. Yes. 2259. Witness.-The next point relates to Mr.

R_ussell. His Honor states : " He had a quarrel with Mr. Ballantine about some police in the Nor­ thern Division, and also about a whaleboat at Me, keo, and he was transferred from Mekeo with a reduction in salary." I do not remember anything about a. quarrel about police in the Northern Divj­ sion, nor anv quarrel, so far as I am concerned,

about a whal e boat at l\Iekeo. 2260. Q. I suppose there will be papers in re­

gard to the whaleboat at l\Iekeo ?-A. I do not

know of any~ 2261. Q. Then just at present it ·stands just as a statement between Mr. Russell and yourself ?-A. Yes. His Honor also states : '' The same thing

happened in regard to Mr. Haughton at Sa.rnarai." 2262. Tlte Cltairman.-You have already dealt with Mr. Haughton. 2263. T!te Witness.-Then there is a question of some quarrel with Captain Rothwell. I absolutelv . deny that quarrel, and would ask His Honor to

support his statement. The next matter is in re­ gard to my drinking habits. About this I wish to state that l have on several occasions drunk t o ex­ cess, and early in March, 1905, I received a letter

from the Administrator, stating that I must give it up absolutelv or resign. 2264. ·r1t; Cltazrman.-Was that an official let­ ter ?-A. Ko; it \Yas marked private. It was given to me with one from the Private Secretary, 1\Ir. :'.\Janning. Of course, I wish to say that the accusa­ tions made against me are made by a lawyer, and I must place myself in the hands of the Commis­

sion, as I am not a lawyer.

D&.1'id Ballantine, 14th ~ ov., 1906,

2265. The Cltairman.--You may depend upon re

solutely refrained from indulging in liquor to excess? -A. ~ o j there is one occasion on which I did

indulge again, and I wrote a letter to the Private

Secretary after it, saying I was quite prepared to resign, as I ought to resign j and His Excellency

sent for me to Government House, and told me that I had been too long in the country without lease, and I ought to take the leave which had been

granted to me about three months previously. 2267. Q. About what time was it that you were sent for ?-A. The end of October, 1905. 2268. Q. And with that exception may we take it that you have refrained ?-A. Yes.

2269. llfr. Okeden.-Why had you not taken your leave which had been granted to you before? -A. One reason was that I bacl nat sufficient funds for long leave. I sold some property' to go on

leave. 227 0. Q. You were ahout to take vcur leave the previous August or Julv ?- A . I had an attack of

dysentery and applied for leaYe, hut got better. That was when Mr. Atlee Hunt was here, and I

did not take it.

2 2 7 1. Q. Did the Governor express a desire that you should not take your leave then ?-A. Nor, he never asked me to postpone mv leave at any time last year.

227~ . ll!r . Herbert. - Did His Excellency at anv time cancel your leave ?-A. ro. It was left

absolutely to· myself and the convenience of the service. The leave was granted, I think, in August. 227 3. Q. Did His Excellency express any de­ sire that you should remain at anv time after you tad applied ?-·A. Jo, neither di1ectly or m-

0

dirertly. ·

2274. Mr. Okeden.--I th-ink your memory may h ave, perhaps, failed you. Will you look ;1.t these papers and see if you ha Ye made an error ?- [s!IOW­ ing witness papers]-A. Yes. I was speaking from

memory. T had absolutelv forgotten it. 227 5. Q. There is a minute here from His Ex­ cellency to the Government Secretary, '' Inform 1Ir. Ballan6ne that I regret T must cancel my ap­

prova.l of the leave for which he applied, and which was to take effect from Thursday next." ?- A. I

had quite forgotten that. I cannot understand

the minute about goin g on " Thursday next." I

know I did not sell my houses until the end of

the year, when I was going.

2276 . Q. Who purchased them ?-A. Mr. Bra-mell purchased them both. 2277 . Witness. - There is the question· of pay­ i ng money to Maraia. \Vhat was done in the Trea­

sury was that the ,rnman and mone\' were brought O\'er from Burns, Philp, and Co., and a TreasurY offi cer witnessed the payment. Ko record w~{s kept.

2278. i1fr. llerbert. - At that time were you

:R e~ident ~[agi trate of the Central Di.Yision°?­

A. T cannot tell from memory. 2279 . Q. You were appointed Resident ~1agis­ strate of the Central DiYision when His Excellencv was appointed ?- A . Yes. T was Acting Residen·t ) f aai. trate from some ti 1e in F ehruar\' until Octo-ber, J901 · -

::? 2 80. (). Ought this mane, not to hd·e been

paic1 to the ::\lagistrate of th Central DiYision ?-­ A. I think it .ought to ha,·P. been pain through th<> Court. 228T. Q. And you were :Resident 1'Iagistrate ?-

A. Yes, but I had a great deal of wor1· to do at

that tim •.

2282. Q. Why did you accept the position if

) ou could not carr} out the duties ?-A. I was

ordered to. 2283. Q. Did you not point out that you could

not carry out the duties ?- A. It wa ob\'ious.

2284. Tlte TFitnes.s. - ln connexion ,vith th~ case of Ahuia. I would like the 2apers referred to. 2285. Q. Where ought they to be ?-A. In the

P esident ~lagistrate' s office. 2286. Q. Were the y there when you saw them lc:st ?-A. I last sent them to the Government Sec-retary.

2287. Q. When ?-A. I cannot tell from memory. 2288 . Q. Did you send them as Resident ).Jagi­ s1rate ?-A. Either as Resident ~Iagistrate or Trea­ surer. I was Assistant Magistrate, and took the

case in the absence of Mr. Bramell. 2289. Tlze Cltairman.- lf you leave that matter until after, we may be able to get the papers suffi­ cient for your purpose ?- A . Very good.

2290. Tlte TVitness.- There is a question in ~lr. I\Jurray's evidence in regard to the Government Stores about my capacity. It is only necessary for me to state what happened at Tama.ta. I went to Tamata. I audited all the books from December,

1901, to date. I paid all the police up to the 30th

June, and closed the ye.:u's account s there, and then I commenced to take an inventory of the Govern­ ment Stores which were much scattered about. I went to the new station at Ioma, to take the stores

there. I took a Ii.st of all the sto:es at the station,

but did not complete the list, partly because some stores were out on the gold-field and some were at Mamba.re Beach. . His Honor says I was respon. sible for the resignation of ~Ir. Higginson, for not

taking an inventory, I understand. I would wish

toi deny that statement for four reasons. Firstly, it w~s no fault of mine that I could not complete

the mventory. Secondly, it was not imperatiYe

that I shoul~ take an inventory at all. Thirdly,

officers are cluected to forward full inventories on th~ 30th June of each year, and fourthly, having failed to complete the m,·entory, I left a written

instrnction to the Resident Magistrate asking that t\rn officers take the inventorv and forward it as early . as possible. This instruction is still with the Tamata papers, 1 understand. Then there is the

point where :i\Ir. Murray says, "and apparentlv 1\lr. Ballantine did not charge expenses going up the_ I\1ambare.., and l\Ir. )Iusgrave thought he did. It 1s all turned off on that. '' I wish to state that

at all the Government Stations we visited on this ~rip I ~v~s fullj1 occupied, sometimes also at night, t'1 aud1tmg b(X)ks, going into the question of ex­

pendi~ure, settling up accounts to the end of the financial year, and in other matters. At Kokoda I w~s working until twelve at night completing the audit of the accounts. I also went there bv direc­

tion of the Admini trator, and am quite at a loss

to understand why the guestion of my travellinrr expenses arises when I am ordered on dutv and

Pnp-aged in important dutv. '

22?r. Tlte _ rlzaim~an._:_I "·otild lil-e to pointo:1t t ha.t m the en

C' ·penses. You went there just a~ am· orclin~n Go-'f rnnwnt c ffi<' e r. ! < \ not .' i h_ it to e implied

that " u ,rerc domg an: tb1nQ' improper ,\ he n I

3.. l·erl. · th qu stion al otit vmu ronsuminrr GoYern­

ment . tor :1nd usi '.f]; Gon~rnment car~ier , but

simplv that this contPntion , ·a. p11t fonrartl, and . fr. . usgra,·-- "as b lamed. H menti necl c.·­

pe n - s ?- il. There were no exnen es. I ,ras ron­

suming p :·iYate stores. I "Pnt up the ri ·er in a

wbal boat. I \Yas one of the nministrator's

part), and he prm·idccl all the :tore. and s rva.nt .

t

105

Da,rid B&llantine, 14th NoT., 1906.

2292 . . Q. Am I ta .understand that His Excel­ !ency P.a1d these expenses ?-A. Yes, and the same m . r~gard to the trip to Kokoda. His Excellency paid all the expenses except the carriers.

. 229_3. lllr. f!erbert.-Why is that so if the officer 1s dom_g public duty ?-A. It is so awkward to

have different cooks and different servants. It is more convenient to have one party. 2294. Q. Were you on public duty ?-A. Yes. 2295. Q. Then why did not the Government

be.a~ the e~penses, and not saddle it upon the Ad­ mm1strator s private purse ?-A. The Government ought to have done it, but thev· did not.

22?6. Jl!r. Okeden.-You are able to speak with certainty m ~hat matter, becaus·e you, as Treasurer, would know 1f the vouchers were put in for the trip? -A. Yes.

2297. Q. Were they put in ?-A. No. 2298. lib. H erbert.-Wh.it about the carriers?­ A. The Government paid them. The same thing has been done by Judge Robinson and Sir George Le

Hunte. 2299. Mr. Okeden.-Was the party a large one? -A. i[r. Monckton and Mr. Oelrichs were with the pa:rtv.

2300. Mr. H erbert.-Does not the Governor draw a travelling allowance?-A. Yes. 2301. Q. Did he dr.a.w it on this occasion ?-A. Yes, I expect he did.

2302. Mr. Okeden.-Is it your habit to make re­ ports of your inspections and file them here ?-A. I always make a report to the Administrator if there are any matters which are to be adjusted or brought to the Administrator's attention, but, as a rule, the

time is so short that it takes the form of minutes. 2303. Q. You state that you asked the Resident Magistrate to get twu officers to take an inventory at Tama.ta ?-A. Yes.

2 304. Q. Who w,as the Resident Magistra.te ?-A. Mr. Monckton. 2305. Q. Was there any minute to that effect lieft in the Treasury ?-A. The minute was put with the

Tamata papers in regard to the shortage of stores. 2306. Q. You did not compare your inventory with anv books at all ?-A. The inventory was in­ complete. The books were not properly kept.

2307. Q. You say that officers are to forward an inventory yearlv ?-A. Yes, it is in the printed in­ structions given to all officers. 2308. Q. Did you vary the instruction after tht~

Tamata ins1 pection ?-A. No, I think it ought to stand. 2309. Q. You made a suggestion that officers should make half-yearly reports on store matters?­

A. To furnish quarterly returns. 23ro. Q. You are aware of the confusion which afterwards arose ?-A. Yes, it wias explained. It is very difficult to keep a ~heck on stores in. tbe

Northern Division. There 1s a great expenditure of stores there, and they are greatly scatter<:d

about. 23r r. Mr. H erbert.-At the tim~ you were ai

Tamat,a there was an apparent senous shortage of stores, was there not ?-A. I cannot tell from

memory. I would like to see the papers. 23r2. Q. Had that been apparent to you, was

not vour proper course to follow the goods on to the gold--field, and take an iI~ventory of those, and then comp.are the irn:entorv with the books_?-A. ~o. I do not think so. It would have been 1mpractlcable.

- 2313. Q. You did not think it your duty to follo:v the aoods at the time and check them ?-A. No, tt :-, would have delayed the party. .

2314. Mr. Okeden.-You sav that 1t would hav delayed the· party too long for you to have folJowed

the stores at the time. As a matter of fact, had you discovered the di repancy when you were there?­ A. I cannot reply without referring to the papers. 2315. Tlte vVitness.-His Honor states that ~Ir .

Higginson says that there is no book for keepmg stores at Tamata. This is quite untrue. Store

books were kept. 2316. The Witness.-! have to refer the Commis­ sioners to the papers relating to the shortage of stores at Tamata, which, I believe, contain the instruction

that two officers were to take an inventory and send it to the Treasury. 2317. Tlze Chairman.-Will that be sufficient for your purpose ?-A. Yes.

2318. Wttness.-[Tlte papers in the case of Ahuia were handed to the witness.]-The original evidence and letters by Mr. Turner to Mr. Bramell_ are not with the papers, and I see by a recent mmute by

i1r. Bramell that he cannot find them. The case was tried by me at the Court House at E!~ I used as

interpreter the most competent man th~t coul~ . be got, i.e., the Treasury cadet, who is also m ! ai pos1t1on to induce and see that natives speak the truth. I

went into the case with great care, and it lasted some hours. I had no difficulty in making up my mind in the matter and found Ahuia not guilty. False tes­ timony m;v have been given, but I took great pains

to ascertai~ the truth. I also found th.at in a minute dated the 30th January, 190 5, there is the following statement:-" There was no one who could state that an act of adultery had been seen, and the two accused people denied tbat any had taken place.'' I

also wish to state that if it had been proved that Ahuia had had intercourse with this woman, the ques­ tion would have arisen as to whether they w~re really miarried, as I believe that, according to native cus­

tom, he had deserted his wife. I did not knowingly overlook Mr. Turner in any way. Alua had several daYs' notice to attend the Court. Mr. Turner, un­ fo;tunately, addressed his letters personal! y to Mr. Bramell, and they were in the post-office unopened

when the case was being tried. That is all I wish to say. 23r9. Tlze Cltairman.-According to Judge Mur­

ray, Mr. Turner told him that he had had a con­ versation with you, and you promised that you would let him know when the case came on. Is that state­ ment of l\fr. Turneir's correct?-A. I do not re -­ member promising Mr. Turner that I would give him notice. If I had had thiat conversation, and knew

he wished to be present, I would have been very glad to have l1ad him in Court. 2320. Q. Mr. Turner states that he wrote to you again reminding you of this promise, and the J udgc;

says-" I think Mr. B~..llantine got that letter on the morning the case came on" ?-A. I am sure I did not get that letter. 2321. Q. Is there anything further you would like to say in that case ?-A. No.

2322. T lte Witness.-With reference to l\Ir. Fow­ ler's evidence about his boys deserting, I do not re­ member about the bovs, but I know that if the de­ sertion had been reported, an attempt would have been made to capture them. With regard to the com­ plaints made by Mr. Fowler ref erred to by Judge ~Jurray, I went into the bush at Epa, 8 or 9 miles'

walk from the landing at Ethel River, inspected the trees personallv. saw the marks and dates when they were felled, and found that the" were many monthi:;; o ·erdue for cutting up and stacking. I camped in the village that night, but sent notes to Mr. Fowler, w.ho was 20 miles off, and to Mr. Hide, who was c,amped near the village, that the wood had been forfeited to the Crown, as being the only two people

who ,vere likely to buy the wood, and asked them to tender, and reply by the messenger. I believe I

David Ballantine, 14th ov., 1906.

106

named the date. The onl): tender I received was from Hide. Fowler ' tend r, I btiieve, came after the date. 2323. TILC Cliairman.- Did Hide tender ,Yithout examining the wood ?-A. _ ~o, he was with me. It

was he who r ported that the wood had been cut a long time, but I allowed Fowler ample time to write to me about the wood, as I thought. 2324. Q. He states that he did write to you,

and asked you to gi,·e him an opportunity of seeing the wood and making a tender ?- A. I think I re­ member getting that, but I could not wait for seve­ ral days. I ha:d to settle the matter on the spur

of the moment, gi,·ing each a similar opportunity, and I beli ve that Fowler's letter was receiYed after the date I fixed for the sale of the wood. 2325. Q. One man was on the spot, and the other a considerable distance away. Did they get simi­ lar opportunities ?-A.. I gave him time to come and

see the wood if he wished and to either send me a reply or come personally. 2326. Q. },fr. Fowler states that a number of

other sandal wood getters signed a statement that you had not given them an opportunity of tender­ ing ?-A. That is so. The only two near there

were Hide, alongside, and Fowler. The nearest man, other than those, was across the Sound, three or four miles further than Fowler. To have done it properly, I might have waited five or six days .

The Ordinance, I understand, allows the officer to use his discretion. 2327. Mr. He.rberi.-Did you know that the wood was Fowler's ?-A. Yes.

2328. Q. Did you tell him so ii: the notice '.~A. I certainly did not intentionally withhold the mfor-mation from him. 2329. Mr. Oked'en.-With regard to the shortage of stores at Tamata, did you discover any discre­

pancy when you were there ?-A. T;1e stor~s books were not well kept, and I gave mstructions, for a different method to be a:dopted. 2330. Q. When the report came over. here .of the

discrepancy, did you take the same senous vie_ w of it as the Government Secretary took ?~A. I did at the time, until the reason for the error was found before I left.

233r. Mr. H erbert.-What month. was it that you were there ?-A. J u.ne. Th~ d1s~repancy o'.:­ curred in October and m connex10n with a recent store receipt, and 'r was there in June. . The discre­

pancy was, I think, in connexion with Kokoda store, not Tamata. 2332. Q. You said you did not take an inventory because some of the goods were on the gold-fields

and at Mambare. You went to :\Iambare Beach twice, did you not?-A. Yes. 2333. Q. What gold-fields would they be ?-A. Either the Aikora or the Gira~

2334. Q. Did you go to either or those ?-A.

No Aikora is too far away. d335. The Clzairman.-Does that complete your reply to the Judge's evidence ?-A. I understand that completes it.

2336. Q. Do you wish to make any remark about the GoYernment. blankets at Daru ?-A. I do not r member any charge of stealing blankets. 2337. llfr. H erbert.-Are there books at Daru for the stores ?-A. There ought to be. I do not

know whether the R. }IL ha. book . I know he

ends return of stores issu d from time to time, so he must k ep some account of stores . 2338. Mr. H erbert.-In regard to the Curator of Int stat Estate , in the matter of the estate

of the late E. J. Weeks. There wa a will sent

from Samarai. It was lost or mi sing for some

con i

Intestacy "·ork gets behindhand sometimes in conse­ quence of the delays in dealing with it, and the

pressure of work, and also in consequence of the publication of the notices. The will having been set aside for so long is due to carelessness. 2339. Q. Some of the property, oYer which there

was considerable correspondence, was also mislaid, and subsequently found in . the Curator's charge at Port i\Ioresby. Is that accountable for in the same

way, carelessness ?-A. Yes. 2340. Q. How do you account for the non-pro­ duction of the articles still missing ?-A. I would like to look at the papers.- [Papcrs having ref cr­ ence to the matter were handed to witness.]

2341. Q. Have the nugget of gold, diary, and photograph of a lady been handed over to the lega­ tee ?-A. The effects received at Port },loresby were a watch and chain, some mineral specimens, and cash to the value of 30s., and that was all that ,ras

advised as having been sent from Samarai. 2342. Q. When were the proceeds sent to the 1egatee from the ,Curator?-A. There is. no date shown on these papers. There are some other

papers in my office. 2343. The Clzairman.-Does that close your reply to the Judge ?-A. Yes. I will now reply to the evidence given by Mr. J. R. Stuart Russell. There is a statement headed " Officers of Papua who have had disagreements ,Yith the Honorable the

Treasurer." First of all, I wish to say that the

Treasurer has many disagreements with officers on account of having to exercise a close scrutiny on re­ quisitions. for stores and other expenditure matters. Sooner or later, as a question of means, requisitions

are cut down, and some officers make this a personal grievance against the Treasurer. First as to 1Ir. H. H. Stuart Russell, Chief Surveyor. The first paragraph I admit. We did disagree over the

trip to the Gap, as we did not meet, but I was not

under his directions, and I did not disregard his instructions, or those of any one else. " Secondly, Mr. Ballantine's general obstruction and opposition to his professional views, more especiallv in Works

Department. Mr. H . H. Stuart Russell re­

signed.'' I did regard the Lands and Survey De­ partment, when the expenditure was increased to £4,000 or £5,000 per year, shortlv after ~1r. Russell took charge, as costing much more than

the Government could afford for the ,rnrk being done. Mr. H. H. Stuart Russell told me that he

resigned because he got a better salarv in Africa. The second paragraph is in regard to " .T obn Rich­ mond.'' I have nothing to say about mv disagree­ ments with Mr. Richmond. I ,·oted for 1Ir.

Richmond's suspension. The third paragraph is in reference to Captain Roth\Yell. I have had no disagreements with Captain :Rothwell. I \Yill he nuite satisfied i.f the papers be produced, and the Commissioners look into them' for themseh·es. The

fourth paragraph states. "E. J. Matthe"· ha'C1 se,·eral differences \Yith the Treasurer officialh- anct in sp0rts rn:l.tters, an

particular difference ,Yith "\fr. }l[atthe,Y . He "·a, not suoersed d bv :.Ir. Drummonct, "·ho was is­ tri,t SurYeYor. '\fr. -:\fatthe"· , ,rn, a

A. He had a surveyor's licence, but ,ms em.ployed here as a Gcwernrnent draughtsman. He had a licence ~1ere. T do not. remember hadng had am· differ nee with him. I had ery fe\v dealings with

107

Mr. Matthews Tl fif 1

J

R S . 1e t 1 paragraph refers to Ir.

: all· t~a~t ~ussell. I consider this a prin-

c1p 1 J e~istmg m Mr. Russell's imagination bui wou as - that . pape~s be supplied, and the ~atter left to the consideration of th C . . M R 11 . · e omm1ss1on. Wlhen ~- usse was disrated, I was neither Acting Go-vernment S_ecretary or A~ting Resident :\Iagistrate. J ud~e Robmson was Actmg Administrator. I had nothmg to do with the matter. Then as to sur­veyor Markwell. I _would wish papers to be sub- mitted for the consideration of th C · ·. Mr. Markwell when at. Woodlark e,,. omimb1ssl~on. l · .· a , e 1eve, 1urng s_torekeepers' boys for ihis boat crew. It ,~as decide? at Woodlark that the Resident Magis­tI_a~e get h~m a crew of Government boys inSlt:ead, a::. 1s done m every other branch of the Service, and at :very oth~r statio;n, As regards his resignation, I know . nothmg of 1t, as, I was in England at the time. 2345. Tlte Cltainnan.-1:,.fr. Russell states-"He obtained a suitable crew, but .Mr. Ballantine re­placed t!hem ,vith natives totally unsuitable" ?-A. I had nothing to do with that. It was done by the Resident Magistrate at W oodlark, the Admilnis­trator and Mr. Markwell in consultation. The seventh paragraph states :-'' His Honour Chris. Robins~m, late Acting-Administrator, for attempting to straighten p the Departments, more especially the Treasury, lhe, Chris. Robinson, became the re­cipient of slurs and denunciations, even under the roof of Goyernment House, and h1ad not a friend to appeal to.'' I would class this statement as ma­licious and untrue, and I ,vould ask the Commission to refer to a despatch in September or August, 1903, by His Excellency J'udge Robinson, in which he states that he has everv confidence in the Trea­surer. I acted as his chief executive officer for three and a half months prior to his decease, and during that time there was never a discordant word written or spoken. \lile were a.lwa.ys on the best of terms. I would ask that the pa·pers ir11 the matter of these charges be referred fo the Commission, if tihere a re any. 2346. Q. Does that clos.e your .ieviden~e ?-A. Yes. THE HONORABLE ANTHONY MUSGRAVE, C.M.G., M.L.C., was further examined, as follows: -2347. The Chairman.--His Honor Judge ::\Iur­ra. y, in his evidence has stated that the re is an old feud between yourself and the Treasurer, dating back to the davs of Sir George Le Hunte. Is that a fact ?-,.f I must confess that I was not con­scious of it. I have criticised Mr. Ballantine's ac6ons in the Treasury, but I was not conscious of any feud in the ordinary acceptance of the term, which I think means personal dislike and inclination to iniure a person. 2348. Q. Then in Sir 'George's time and during the whole of that time, yourself and the Treasurer were always on friendly terms officially ?-A. Yes, fairly so, I 11 hink. 2 349. Q. Then the Judge is incorrect in ,his as­sumption ?-A. I think that perhaps he has taken a, strong view of the case. 2350. Q. In stating that tlhere was a feud ~­tween Mr. Ballantine and yourself as far back as Sir George's time as Administrator?-A. Yes. 2351. Tlze C!tairman.- Is there anything you would like to ask Mr. .Murra.y about that matter, Mr. Ballantine? 2352. Mr. Ballantine.-No. TIIE I-IOI OR BLE RALPH MEL 10TH

DRU 1 10 D, M.L.C.,

wa further examined, as follow :-2353. T!te Chairman. - I under tand that )'DU \\·i_,h to gfr further evidence in reply to a staite­ ment made by :\Ir. J. R. Stuart-Russell ?-A. Yes. The reference in the evidence by Mr. Russell to my expre ing my elf in very low terms regarding \\·hat I would doi for :\Ir. Ballantine is untrue.

2354. Q. Jir. Russell states: "On 5th May,

1906, Jfr. Drummond tore up a grant which had been issued out of the office. This grant (~o. 165) was a repetition of grant 10. 17, which is now

cancelled by_ grant ~o. 469. H e tore it up in my

presenc , usmg the words, " There has been a lot of fuss about tea1

JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL was further examin ed, as follows:-2355. Tlte Chairman (at Mr. Drumnzond1s re­ q_uest).-You state in your evidence that l\Ir. Drum­ m?nd, in your. presence, tore up a duplicate deed (:-.Jo. r65), wh:th was cancelled, and which should have 'been kept with the papers. Is that a fad?­ :4. I believe it to be so. I saw him tear a deed up

m my presence, when he made the remark I quoted. It was the on] y deed that I know of that had been repeated, and the only papers in connexion with deeds that were that day in the office. When he

made use of the expressi'Cm, I therefore wrote in m~ diary w_hat deed he was tearing up, and in

domg so said deed 1 7, not knowing at the time

whether it was No. 17 or 165. 2356. Q. But why need you have put it down

as 17 ?-A. Because I knew ill: to be either that or 16 5. I knew it must be either one or the other

as they. were th e only papers that were in actio1~ at the time. 2357. _Q. Do you now say that it was 165 or I7? -A. It 1s one or the other

2358. Q. (at _Mr. Drum~ond' s request). Did you make the entry mto your chary at once ?- A. Before ~1e finishe~ tearing it up I was writing the entry

mto my diary. _ 2359. Q. (a~ Mr. Drummond1s re'quest). Did you 1e:11onstrate with Mr. Drummond for tearing up this deed ?-A. I did.

:360. Q. (~t Mr. DrummonrPs request). I ~up­ pose you ~eahze that you are making a senous

c~arge agamst :\Ir. Drummond as Registrar of Titles ?-A. I do. 236r. Q. (at ~fr. Drummond's ret;uest). What be:ame of the pieces after Mr. Drummond had torn th1s deed up ?-A. I cannot say.

THE HONORABLE RALPH MELMOTH DRUMMOND, M.L.C., was fur_ther examined, as follows : -. 2362. Tlte TVitness.-I wish to make the follow­ mg statement:-Deed 17 repeated by deed 16::. Deed 165 was cancelled by i\Ir. Richmond wl~o ~rroneo~s ly noted on deed 165, that "deed N~. 1 issued 111 place of th,15 deed" Deed 3 · 3 f5 . · - . · . · 51 1s or po1tJon 20 (see tracmg with papers of deed 46 and deeds herewith). :\Ir. Richmond also state~ that, when ca~cell~ng that deed, that the duplicate of deed 165 1s with papers of dleed 17 . I was unaware of the fact of deed 165 be" .II d . mg cance e as it '_Vas done before I c:ime to tb e T erritor ,' H ow I_ ca~e to be unaware of deed l6S being ca;~ celled m lieu of 17 was that I had · no occasion to

R. M. Drummond, Hth NoT., 1906

0

ref er to papers of deed 17. By perusing the papers you will see that there iis no reference or minute

bv me in tho e paper . It will be seen by papt..!r

of deed 469 that all reference to cancelling deed 17 is in those papers. I went to the strong-room

on the 7th :\Iay, got deed 17 out of the regi ter,

cancelled it, and put it hack in the register in the

strong-room with the duplicate, as I have always done whenever I cancelled deeds. All deeds that I have cancelled, viz., 17, 33, 148, 149, prov. deed 7 7, the same practice has been followed. The

proper practice is, when cancelling deeds, to put both copiles in the register for all time. and I have followed that closely, as will be seen by my pro­ ducing both copies of the only deeds (excepting

P .G. 77, the duplicate of which is with Ober­

leuter's papers, put in by J\Ir. Russell before they went to the Commission) that I have cancelled. I am supposed to haYe torn up the duplicate of deed 165 on the 5th J\Iay. It wil be seen by dee

that I cancelled it on the 7th May, and that, after

being so ca,reful about the deeds I did cancel, is

it likely that I would go to tbe strong-room on

the 5th, get the papers of deed I7, find that it

contained the duplicate of deed 165, and tear it

up in front of J\fr. Russell, when I had 110 occa­

sion to refer to the papers of I7 ? On receipt of ·

Mr. Russell's evidence I went to find the papers

of deed 16 5, but they were never in the office, I

understand, so I lroked up the register and found that deed 165 was cancelled, and the duplicate

supposed to be placed with papers of deed I7.

On looking up those papers I found that the dee<.1 was missing, and if torn up it was not torn up by

me, and I think it is a false state1-Pent to say that

I

" Preparing deeds and doing general office work, all day and at night time.'' The 7th I was regis­

tering deeds and fixing up Bramell's exchange till 12 p.m. On the 8th May I left on leave. After

preparing this statement I have found deed 165, which Mr. Russell says I tore up, which proves

that the charge is false. I found it in papers

D.G. 165 and 17, as Mr. Richmond states, and I now produce deeds T7 and 165, both in duplicate. -[Deeds produced.] 2363. Mr. H erbert.-lf a de€d is properly issued

out of office, how many copies do you keep in the office ?- A. One. 2364. Q. Which deed was really cancelled?--A. Both 165 and 17.

2365. Q. Is there iln the register to-dav a copy

of the deed issued in lieu of deed 17 ?-A. Yes. 2366. Q. What is its number?-A. 469. 2?,67. Q. Where is the duplicate ?- A. It is in

the hands of the owner. 2368. Q. Has there been a fresh deed in lieu of

deed 165, cancelled ?-A. No, because 165 repeated 17. 2369. Q. Did you destroy any deed which had been marked as cancelled, or otherwi e, on the 5th

May last ?-A. I swear before God I did not. 2370. Q. Have you at any other time ?-A. No; as Registrar of Titles I could not do it. · What

would be mv obied? I produce all the deeds I

have ever ca{1celled for the Commiss·on to S{:e. 2371. Mr. Herbcrt.-On the 5th )fav last did vou tear up an\"thing in the pre nee of r.fr. Rus·

sell, at the same time using the \VOrds, or anY­ thjng like them-'' There has been a lot of fu··s

about tearing papers lat ly. I'll tear them am -

how "?-A. To, it i absolut ly untrue.

2372. Q. When did )OU r m \e these deeds of

grant from their proper place in the office before producing them to the Commis ion ? A. On the

night I wa nt Mr. Russ ll' . evidence J 2th _

1 m·em-

r I t k them and locked them up.

2373. Tlte Witness.-! now refer to His Ex­ e-el lencv's minute which I was supposed to have l.wghed at. ~[o;t of i\Ir. Russell"s statement is

untrue and to show that he is not reliaule, he

st ates 'that I joined in the laugh at His Excel­

lency's minute re standard time. 'The minute n~­ ferred to did not come to the sun·ey office until

the 17th ~ T m·ember, r 904. I could not ha \'e j~ined in the laughter, as I did not arri\'e in the Terntory until the 19th J anuary, 1905 (see M.P .. 1079 / or), which I produce and I was not referring to the

above papers, b~t ha\'e seen some of His Excel-lency's minutes carried round the office. . · 2374. Tlze Clwirman.-Then at the tune )Ir.

Russell states " :\Ir. Drummond was present and took part in the jocularity '' you state that .'"ou were not in the Territory at all ?-A. Yes. I said that. 23 7 5. Q. Rav<.' you nnything else to tate ?-A.

No.

JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL

was further examined, as follows:-2376. Afr. Herbcrt.- You ha\·e heard ~[r. Drum­ mond's evidence ?- A. Yes. 2 3 77. Q. In the face of that, and of the pro­

! luction of the very deeds themselves, l1ow can you

justif v the char,ge you made against Mr. Drum­ mond ?-A. I saw him tearing a dee up. If that

was not the deed, it was some deed. He had con- . siderable difficulty in tearing it. He could not

do it with his hands and put his foot on it to tear

it. While he was tearing it I made my entry into

my diary. I wish t0 make a statement of what

occurred, between Mr. Drummond and myself since then that will probabl v be able to throw some light on the subject. I put a minute on Mr. Drummond's table yesterdav evening, telling him that -I had

searched the strong-room yesterday morning after he had been in the room himself, and found certain papers rela6ng to deeds missing. Amongst them were deeds J7, 16_c; , and 469. I must explain that

at 9 o'clock yesterdrty morning, when I went up to the office, 1 went to get the kev of the strong-room to return a number of deeds which had been to the Treasury. I saw that the key was not in its usual

place, and I asked Mr. Drummond for it. He

did not answer me. He took the kev off his table

eventually and went dmn1 to the strong-room. Be­ fore reaching the door he turnerl. round and asked me-" Where is deed 165 ? " I said "You have

torn it up, vou destroved it, and you know vou

have." Hf' , said-" I· do not mean· that, I m~an the papers.'' He opened the door of the strong­ room. I went to put the heap of papers I had in

mv hands on the shelf. The heap of papers in

which Ll 69 was i.n was on the bo tom shelf. next

to the door. I heard him fumhling amongst those rapers, and ]ooked down, and I saw him push

some naper" underneath others in that heap. I

_ glanced at him. He then turred up a heap near

me where the hean of deerls from T fo "o were

r,l:iced. He tumen un the he.,,. showing ·the out­ sicte p1.ner 17. He said- " \Vnere is that deed

belongin~ to those papers ?" I said, half jocularh·. -" I do not know. I suppose it can be found if

11ecessan1 ." He said- " I will send YOU a minute

what I \Yent to do. and "·ent un to the 0ffi<'e await­ ing- the minute. hut not receiYing am· at II o'clock, T sParched for the naner and fo md them mi c:;jn

That is all I ha Ye to aY in connexion ,Yith that. 2:n8. Q. How can YOU account for Your state­ ment about ).fr. Drummond laughing at Hi Excel­ lenc, 's minute ahout zonr ti.me when ~fr. Drum­ mond was not in the Territor · ?-A. know that

tbose papers were in ~fr. . latthews' ruom for · a long time, and I may ha,·e m::icle a mi .ake a to

the date on which he laugiwd at tho e pa_µcrs. 2379. Q. Do YOU still 111.:iintain that he did latwh at_ that. minute?- A . Yee;. f n speaking of tl1e

mrnute itself to me he stated that Hi3 Exe llen'Y, since_ he had had charge of the office. had intended to rerntroduce ·the case, but be had declined o\\·in

Matthews. When he did laugh at it maY not han:: been on the occasion upon \\'hi~h I thought he did. I know he has laughed at those papers in my

presence. :3380 . llfr. Ol(cdcn .- Was )Ir. ~[atthe\rs present when he lau~hed at those papers ?-A. Yes, he

was. 238 r. Q ._ Do ~ on re-affirm th,it :::"I [r. Drummond did tear up the deed - making the renurk you sai

2382. Q. W as. any one else p resent ?-A. _ ~ o. 2383. Tlte Cltairnzan.-In view of the fact th,1t you stated definite] v and ,Yithout anv reserYation that cJeccl 16 5 1\'aS a repetitio11 of I7 \Yhicb is 110W cancelled by 469, and that ~fr. Drummond tore

that deed up in your presence. which statement has now be"n pro,·ed to be ab sol utelv baseless by the production of the \· ery grant you said was torn

up. do you not think you might have made a mis­ t 8ke in saying that l\Jr. Drummond laughed at

that particular minute ?-A. ~ ~ o . I would like to

sav that about three weeks a ero I ,yent into the

str:i:i g-room to make sure \\'l~ich deed had been torn up. I looked through the pa:rers in connexion with that land, and the duplicates of the thrPe

deeds, r 7, 16.5 ar:d 469 in the office, and the deed

165, which had been issued to the L ondon Mission­ arv Societv, recalled and cancelled, was missinr:; from its p·lace among the papers 469 in the strong­ room.

TvVENTY-EIGHTH DAY.

THURSDAY, 15TH NOVEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT "HILL WORTH," PORT MORESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairmar:); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O .. l\Ir. Justice C. E. H erbert,

Mr. E. H arris, Secretary to the Commission.

WILLIAM CUNNINGHAM BRUCE

was sworn and examined, as follmY :-23s4. The Clzairman.-What is :n~ur name ?-A. William Cunningham Bruce. I am C:omrnai:da~t of the Armed Native Constabulary, Assista1:t Resident

Magistrate for the T erritory, and Shenff for the Territory. .

2385. Q. How long have you_ been m the Ser­ vice ?-A. Since ~fay, 1903. ~(rne was one of the first appoir.tments made by the Commonwealth Go. vernment. .

23 86. Q. In giving eviden<:e before ~he C?mm1s-sion, Judge Murray stated, m oonnexion with the i::.hooting of natives, that a great number are shot, " and the two men who shot nea: I y all of them are

the two particular friends of His Excellency, l\Ir.

09 W. 0. Bruce, 15th Nov., 1906.

, ionckton anJ lr. Brue . " Do ) ou wish to make

.111) reply to the tatement as regards your~elf ?--A.

·111ere h.ne Leen occa!:)ions when the _µollce under my cnarg~ ha, e found it necessary to sl1oot .r.:.atiYes. iJuring the length of my service here it has been reported to me that se,·en natives ,ver~ shot. I hct~e rea on to believe that only five were shot. I will

refer ) ou to my annual report, to a statement I

made therein ir: connexion with the matter. 2387. Q. You say that it has been reported to you that se,,en ,rere shot. ls the Commission to under­ stand that you ,Y ere not in immediate command of

the men ?-A. I was in command, but was not per· su.r.:.ally present when the men were shot. I have never shot a native in my lite. Of course, I take

the responsibility of what the men in my charge have done. 2388. Q. Who was in charge when the shooting took place ?-A. Sergeant Antor.e. In this country, in operating against the natives, it is necessary to

surround the villages at night time, and in order to do that you otten have to do .marches of 12 or _rs miles during the I'-ight. It is impossible for white men to march on the tracks at night time, and I

have, therefore, found it necessary to send 'my men on in charge of my sergeant of police, a trustworthy and reliable r.on-cammissioned native officer. named Antone (not Warrant Officer Anthony). In both cases the police were attacked by the natives who

were killed. Armed resistance was offered to the police. 2389. Llir. H erbert.-As Commandant of Police, I suppose it is natural you should come ir.to contact with opposing natives more often than most Resi­ dent l\Iagistrates ?-A. Very much more often. I am often in command of a punitive patrol.

2390. Q. In which of the Division,5 where there is cor..s ideralile white settlement is there most trouble given by natives ?-A. I should say the Northern · Division.

2391. Q. Who is R esident o'f the Northern Divi­ sion ?-A. Mr. i\lonckton. 2392. Q. You ha,·e seen copy of Mr. Stuart

Russell's evidence ?-A. I have. ~393 · Q. Were yo u on the occasion referred to bv Mr. Russell under the influence of liquor ?-A. ( probably had rather more drink than I should

have had. 2394. Q. Was your language on that occasion of a proper charactei ?-A. I think it might have been construed to be of an improper character.

2395. Q. Do you wish to say any more on the

point ?-A. -ot a word. 2396. Q. Was His Excellency aware of the fact? -A. 1 -o, certainly not. 2397. The Chairman.-When you were in the Central Division did you take 1our orders from

the Resident J\Iagi strate ?-A. 1'1 y orders I take direct from the Administrator, through the Govern­ ment Secretar}:, as a rule; but when I all'. out on patrol in the Central Division I have received orders

from His Excellency on several occasions to send my reports through the Resident :Magistrate of the Division. They are then forwarded to His Excel­ lency.

2398. Q. T hen supposin:g a disturbance cx:curs in any part of the Northern Division, am I to un­ d erstand that the Resident i\Iagistrate does not give you any orders in regard to your movements ?_:_A .

If I were ,rnrking with a Resident Magistrate he would be in charge, but if I were working by my­ self or with an Assistant Residen t Magistrate I would be in charge.

2399. Mr. Okeden.- When you enter a district other than the Central Division, does the Resident .:\fagist ratc direct your movements ?- A. Yes.

w. o. Bruo6, 15th Nov., 1906.

llb

:qoo. Q. Does he in a11y Wa) issue instructions at any time to the men under }OU ?-A. All the in­ strnctions to mr patrol ,rould come through me. --1-or. Tlze Chairman.- Do all the police in the Territory go through a regular course with you

b_efore being clraf ted to the different Divisions ?-A. .J. 0.

2402. Q. Do the local Resident Magistrates re· cruit and control their own police ?-A. In some:: Di,·isions they recruit entirely j in others I furnish police every year, or when I change detachments I change the men.

2403. Q. In which Divisions do the Resident

Magistrates recruit entirely ?-A. In the Eastern, Western, and Soutl1-Eastern Divisions. I should like officers to pick their own detachments, and send them to me to head-quarters for training, these men

to be returned to their respective Divisions after they have been trained j but this is impracticable for walit of funds. Naturally the local Magistrates are in a position to pick the men who would be most use-ful to them.

2404. Q. With regard to the armin·g of the Armed ~ ative Constabulary. Are you in favour of the

retention of the bayonet ?-A. Yes, I think I am. I at one time applied to have the bayonets taken

away from the native police, giving my reasons, but since then I have come to the conclusion that the bayonets mav be extremely useful in the event

of the native police being required away from this country. 2405. Q. Could you give me an instance where the bayonet would be extremely useful to the

native police ?-A .. lf there were a rush of natives it would be extremely useful, and also when guard­ ing prisoners. The bayonet strikes terror in the

heart of prisoners. 2406. Q. Speaking_as a, man whQ has seen active service, do \·ou consider the Papuans of the North, ~ orth-E ast,· and ,v es tern Divisions, properly

trained, would make good soldiers. I, of course, onh expect , ou to speak from the staiia-point c-f natire tribes ?-A. Propedy trained and properly led, they would compare favorably with any natire

troops in the world. 2407. Tlte Witnes.1.-I wish to make a statement personally in relation to the existing affairs here among the Government officials in Port Moresby. I wish to say that I came down towards the end

of l 90 5 from Ioribaiaa with His Honor Judge

Murray, and although I am unable to quote his exact words, he left the impression on my mind of dis­ loyalty to and dislike of Captain Barton, the Ad-ministrator.

2408. The Cltairman.-Cannot you quote any­ thjng he said ?-A. I cannot say !:!is exact words, but he left that impression on my mind. Though it appears to be a small matter, sports are to a

great extent responsible for the bitter feeling exist­ ing between Government factions here. On one occasion the whole Executive Council, with the ex­ ception of His Excellency, ,vere either present at

?r wished to vote by proxy at one of those meet­ rngs. Judge ~Iurra~ was voted to the chair by one pa1 ty, and was beaten for the chair by the opposite party by one vote. Dr. Craigen, the Chief Medical Officer, got to the chair. On one side, Judge Murray and Mr. Richmond, of the Executive Council; on the other the Chief ~1edical Officer and the Trea­ surer, Mr. Ballantine. The Government Secretary sent down a request to vote by proxy, but he was

not allciwed. The Private Secretary was at the meet­ ing and I haYe no doubt His Excellency was sus­ pected of being interested in the matter, though I believe he knew nothing of it. Shortly after this, certain charges were made against me which had occurred four months before, not brought by the aggrieved parties, but by this time totally disloyal

per ons. The chatges \\ ei'e brought by ; 11. i. Iat• thews and 1lr. Garnoch. This was in April, 1905. The meeting was a short time before. Shortly after this came tne Richmond case, followed in Decem­

ber of the same ) ear by the Sogeri panic. This

was a disgraceful affair, and was one of two things -it was either a blue funk or a conspiracy against the Government. At first I believed the former. I am now inclined to change my mind. I can hardly

credit that five armed white men would run awav from the Sogeri plantations, leaving their signecl­ on boys behind, on an idle rumour, and taking into . consideration the personnel of the white men­

J\less:rs. Matthews, Garrioch, Russell, Greene, and Lausenmeyer (the latter, seeing his folly_, went back at once)-and their attitude to the Administration, l consider, ere dismissing the idea, that it is worthy of the gravest consideration. There was not one hostile native within 60 miles of Sogeri. These

people took a woman and a. child up after writing that their Jives were in danger. In any cas~J Jt

was a shocking affair, and has given the prestige of the white man a blow that it will take a long

time to recover from. The murder of Weaver, an isolated wbite man, took place shortly after this dis­ graceful episode, and I am not at all sure that this desenion at Sogeri did not encourage the murderers. Al any rate, I heard natives talking of it a long

time afterwards. Members of the Commission have been through this country themselves, and know how friendly are the natives. Dr. Simpson went through the country_ about the time of the Sogeri panic without anv police, to Kokoda and back to

Port unmolested. I think it right that Australia

should know that four of the party who fled in

this manner either spent or spend a considerabh~ portion of their time in att~cking the Government and writing complaints south, [ 2409. J I may add that I considered it my duty to warn His Excel­

lency, Captain Barton, in January of the present year, that I cons.idesed His Honor Judge Murray \\·as unloyal to him, and His Excellency could not and would not believe it. I may add that it was

a common thing about the time of the Richmond case in Port Moresby for people to make wagers in the street that Captain Barton would be sacked Yery shortly, and that the choice 6f future Admin­

istrator rested between Senator Stan(forth Smith and His Honor Judge Murray. I am :ailso under the impression that His Honor Judge Murray very early in his career here took a dislike to the Trea­ surer, from remarks made to me during the

Awaaiaba trip. 2410. Mr. H erbert.-What special circumstances led you to warn His Excellency in January that Judge Murray was disloyal ?-A. Somewhere about that time Mrs. McDonald made a statement to mv wife and myself, on the verandah of my house', to the effect that Mrs. :\Iurra)'._ had made a certain statement to her that as soon as Captain Barton vacated Government House she expected to be there shortly afte~, or words to that effect. I thought it

right that Captain Barton should know the state­ ments that were going about, and that I believed Judge :\Iurrav to be disloyal to him. 2411. Tlze Clzainnan.-In evidence given before this Commis ·on by Mr. Bramell, Res.ident l\lagis­ trate for the Central Didsion, in reply to this ques­

tion by myself, "I understand that the Commandant is engaged in quelling some tribal di turbance there now?" he ays,, "Yes." The next question is,

'' And from the papers, that when the Commandant came to Soger,i hortly after, ~Ir. Greene a ked for protection, he had been quelling some di turbances ther ?", the reply was " That wa a Jong wav

inland." How far inland was it?-A. It was at

Hagan, 40 miles, at least.

:2411. (( n y ur evidence jut 110" you ...,tated

that there ,·,·a s r:ot a hostile nati\-e within a Ii tance of 60 miles . Were there hostile nati,·e!:, at 'o~eri

at the time You \Yere there ?-A. );'o hostile nad,·e. were ever at- Sogeri, so far as ·1 kno,Y. ~413. Q. Tbe Resident ~fagistrate says 40 mile ~ --.1. J say 60 miles. Hag:ui is further from

Sugeri than Kagi is. The Hagari country where

lii cse natiYe s were is, 60 mile s from Sogeri. 2_ p ·1· Q. After further questions to the R esident .\Iagistrate, I asked, " I suppose you think that

Commandant Bruce's opinion as to the danger of liring among those people would . be reliabfe. There are lett ers. with the papers which he had ,rritten to p :·0ple in the district, warning them of the danger, in al I of which the Commandant gi,·es the Com­ mission the impression that those n atives ,Yere wry

liable, if not ven closeh watched, to do damage " ? --A. l grant you that. - You must remember I i;;ot

a letter from tbe managers of the Sogeri planta­ tions, telling me that their li,ies \Y ere threatened by bush tribes. I immediate!,. sent assistance dO\rn. I onh· h ad nine men, and ·sent three. I ,ras not

a ware \Yhich bush tribes Were thrc.atening the

plante rs, or bow gre at the danger might be, and I consider ed it m,· clutv to write and Y,arn t,Yo white men who were -actually' to the best of my belief, in the danger zone, and advised them to go straight

down t o Port i\Ioresbv b,· the nearest route. 2415. ivlr. H erberi-And to avoid \Yh.at places? --A. i c::mnot remember. The danger was. between me and Sogeri, if ihe letter that the managers wrote

v;as a correct one. I knew there was no danger

,vhere I was, and I thought that perh.a.ps the U~r~ tribe, who were originaJl y charged by the Ekm

survivors as being the perpetrators of the massacre, miirht l)e rriving troul,le, and therefore advised }1e l-o b C b G .

ford to go stracight down to Port Moresby y asan or b,· the nearest w.a.y. 2416. T lte Clwirnzan.- Did nDt the hostile na­ tiv es com~ do,,·n to a spot considerably closer to

l'ort riloresbv than the Sogeri plantations, and there massacre sixteen or se,·e nteen natin~s, just before this· Sogeri scare ?-A. 'fhey did. It was .an inte ~·­ tribal matter, and that was what led to my expech­

tion. I would like to add that in regard to the con­

versation which too1\ place between Mrs. i\IcDonal~, my wife, and myself, I am n_ot quite sure whe~her It took place just before the time ! warned His Ex­ cellency of my belief in the d1sloy.a1 lty of Judge

Murray, or some little while before.

HERBERT WILLIAM CHAMPION

was sworn and examined, as f ollows:-2417. Tlze Clta.Jrman.--:What is your name~-A. Herbert William Champion. I am Tre~sury Ac­ countant and Government Storekeeper. I ,ms ap­ pointed Government Storekeepe r on 1st )far.ch, 1902;

and on 30th March, 1905, I was appomted Ac-

countant also. . .

8 Q I understand that you wish to give

241 . . C . . ;i A y I

some evidence before the ommission ·--=: · es · ~

Mr. Russell's first evidence, he refers to a matter · ·on ,., 1 "th a whaleboat. If Mr. Ru sell 1n connex1 , . . means that he s,igned for those stores on my m­

structions, I would like to say that the _Storeke~per h e · to give an . \' one any rnstruct10ns. as no pow r - S 1. St · sued from the Government tores uv ores are 1s _ -· ·t· approved by the Government Secretary, reqms.i 1011, _ • . and the officer who receives them s1~ns a store r~-

. t f . tl1em If he does not receive them, the1e ce1p or · · · Tl St is not the slightest need for him t? sign. 1e Ci"e-keeper cannot for~e him to do 1t, and would not

expect him to do 1t.

ii it. W. Oha.mpioil, 15th Nov., 1906.

:2419. Ji,. Habert.- Vere the tore. signed for on that occasion by )fr. Ru ell actually issued from the tore ?-::1. . Ye .

2-t-20. Q. Hut of course you ca.nnot say whether

the\· actualfr did reach Rus ell ?-A .. Xo. 2 .. p1. Q. · " as ~lr. Rus ~11 then in )lekeo ?-A. Yes. 2..i-22. Q. Did you receiYe any instructions to de­

mand a receipt at '.ln · cost tor those stores from Mr. Russ.ell? - A. ~ -o; ce rtainly not. '.?..J-23. Q. D id )Ir. Russell sign for the \\·hole 0£ tbe goods issued under protest ?-A. I cannot r~-collect. .

242..i.. Q. Would letters recei,·e d from the con­ sigeee IJy the Treasurer regarding stores issued go through you ?-A. Yes. 2425. Q. Did you see five letters written by i\lr. Russell on the subject of these stores ?-A. I can­ not recollect. The only point I w,is,hed to explain ,ms about )Ir. Russell saying that I wished him to sign for the stores he said he never got.

242.6. Tlte Clzairman.-ls · there: any.thing else ycu ,rish to clear up ?-A. Mr. Drummond showed me a copy of s,ome evidence he had, in which it is stated that I had shown great activity in being up

at the Survey Office during the time the Richmond case m.a,de such a stir in Australia. There is an

account in the Treasury called the Suspense Account, in which deposits paid upon land applications are put. The account begins from about 1890. A

deposit is put in when an application is made, and " ·hen the deed is issued, the application fee is de­ ducted from the actual cost of the land, and then it is transferred from the Suspens,e Account to Re­ venue. Insufficient particulars had been put in

many of the entries, so that it was impossible, from this .account, to ascertain to what land they actually applied. As, soon as I became Treasury Acccuntant in ~larch, 1905, I went into this account to see if

I could trace all these amounts. I bad to do this

in my spare time, as there was not enough time to do it in ordinary office hours. I entered up all the

particul.ars I could find in the Treasury, and asked }Ir. Drummond if he ,rnuld as.sist me from papen in the Lands Office to find other particulars. I \Yent up there one Sunday to do this, and one onl\·, to

the Lest of my recollection. It is simply nonsense to say that the activity was displayed because of the s,tir in Australia, owing to the Richmond case. The m.a.tter did net have the slightest bearing- on that, and I had no particular interest in the account to want to fix it up, except that I wanted to make a

better system of keeping the Suspense Account, and to fix up the old account first. 2427. Tlte C!zairman.-Did you go up to the Lands Office during any week day and work there ?­

A. I think once on that account and once on another account. I certainly did not go more than twice

to do any office work. l\lr. Drummond was living at the Lands Office at that time, and I mav have

called once or twice to see him on Sundays,, but not in connexion \Yith any official work. 2428. !1!r. Herbert.-I gather that yo u had, since your appointment in March, 1905, been en­ gaged in endeavouring to unravel this Suspense Ac­ count ?-A. Yes.

2429. Q. And your efforts to unravel that ac­ count during that time enabled yOIU to make a report to His Excellency early this year ?-A. Yes. 2430. Tlte Clzairman.-ls, there any other point vou would like to deal with ?-A. Mr. Gill said he handed in to the Commission two letters written about the Murua Suspense Account.

2431. The Chairman.-As the Commission do not consider that this reflects in any way on you personally _ you need not go into the matter.

tt. . Oht.mpioil, 15th NoT., 1906.

12

2-432. T lte ffitnc.1 .-In regar

uruught the matter up before the Commission,

· that 1s if it ,ms a complaint against the Curator's office. 1 do not consider that he had any com­

plaint against the Curator's office. In reference to the hawker's licence fee, I wish to state that

I referred the matter to the Treasurer when a re­ quest came from thevVest as to whether a fee . was necessary. The Treasur r said, " · o," and I re­

plied to· the inquirer to that effect. It \ms a pure

error. 2433. Tlte Witness .- In reference to the pearl shell licence, I had issued licences before for canoes, and charged 5s. therefor. '{he Auditor, I\lr. Kin­ mon

this incorrect. I did not look to ~ee why I had

charged 5s. previously, but took it for gr.anted that I had done wrongly in previous matters. So in this case, that of Mr. Baldwin, I asked for an increas~cl fee. Mr. Bald,vin said it w,aJS wrong, and went away.

In the meanwhile, 1 looked up the matter, and

found it was only 5s., and when Mr. Baldwin came back, I said I was sorry for the mistake, .and the

fee was 5s. Mr. Baldwin said he had been to the

Judge, who had told him that there was no fee

whatever. I showed Mr. Baldwin the Act, and

pointed out the fee. He again left. About three

minutes later the Judge sent down to the Treasun· a minute stating there was no fee chargeable on

canoes. A few minutes later a message came from Uw Government Secretary asking for the Judge's minute-paper. When it again reached the Trea­ sury, the old minute was gone, and a new one re­

placed it, asking why I wanted to charge :\Ir.

Baldwin the extra fee. So, as a matter of fact, the J uclge did not come into the matter l~ntil after I

had settled it br offering the licence to ).lr. Baldwin at the proper fee. 2434. Q. Did you get any opinion on the sub·

ject from the Treasurer before you .finally asked the proper fee ?-A. Yes. I asked him if there

was a master's fee payable, and he said t:herc was, and that it was £1.

JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL

was further examined, as follows :-2435. Tlze Chairman.-You wish to give some further evidence?-A. Yes. 2436. Q. What is the nature of it?-A. I h.1Ye

received a letter from the Chief Government Sur­ veyor, which I produce. It is as follows :-" ~ ~ o. 869.

Mr. Russell (Recor

Excellency the Administrator that you be dismisseo from the service. You will not be required to at­ tend at the office until I receive further directions in the matter.

R. M. DRUMMO. D, Chief Government Surveyor.

r 5th .,.ovember, 1906." I take this letter as a contempt on the members of the Commission. I have come before you to gh'P \'id ' nee on matters relating to the past and pre ent

administration of Papua, and upon whi h evid nr\' your decision has not been made known. I would

a 1· you ,d1cthcr it is n ce ary for me to wait for

His .Excel lenc, to take further action in the matter, and for • Ir. 'Drummond to be advi ed that he is

treatin g the 'ommi sion "ith contempt? 2437. Ji r. II crbert.-Do YOU still po ·ifrrely st:ite tha:, "ith the . ole exceptlon of t: e n.1t.ure of t he document, ~ our evidence regarding the destruc­

tion of a do:.:umcnt by him on the 5th :.fay last

is true ?-.1. Yes; rositirdy .

TWENTY-NINTH D.AY

FRIDAY, 16n1 _ ·ovE:\lBEl~, 1906.

(TnE CoMl\1ISSION MET IN THE CouNCIL CHAMBER, PORT l\10RESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. :.lACKAY, C.13., 1\1.L. C. (Chairman); w. E. Parry-Ok.eden, ESL ],, r.s.o., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert,

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

HIS EXCELLENCY CAPTAIN FRANCIS RICKMAN BARTON, C.M.G., ACTING ADMINISTRATOR OF PAPUA, ,Yas sworn and examined, .as follows:-

2438. Tlte TVitncss.-It was not my intention, unless called upon to do so, to give evidence in

;rny matters of a personal nature, but after reading a transcript of the evidence given by His Honor Judge Murray, I felt that it was incumbenl upon me to offer some remarks upon the large ly 1;crsonal

statements made by him, and I sh al I ue obliged

if the Commissioners ,Yill permit me to answer the imputations made in the order given. [~-139.J In the first place, 1\Ir. i\lurray tries to make out

that th e Go\'ernment is aYerse to " ·hite selllernent. I deny the imputation. It is my desire now, and

it always has teen, to encourage white settlement, mare pa,ticular 1 y agriculturalists. In fact, I be­ iieve that the future prosperitv of this country and the salvation ~f the natj\·es depend upon agricul­ tural deYeloprnPnt. [ 2440.] The only obstacle

which has stood in the way of inducing such settle­ ment has been the unsettled condition regarding the land policy, and that was not of my own mak­ ing. Upon my assumption of the administration,

I found that applications for land in fee-simple

were being postponed, and I was. informed that the late Acting Administrator had stated that be would not consider any such applications. As no autho· rity for his action could be found, I thought it

possible that he mirrht have received verbal in­ structions to pursue that course, and I accordingly telegraphed to Melbourne in order to find out de­ finitely. In r ply, I was instructed by His Excel­

lency the Governor-General, that land in fee-simple was not to be granted. I chall ng am bod,· to

show that since Septeml,er, 1905, ther have been anv applications for leasing land that have hcen laid before the Executive ,Council which have not been dela:r d or refu eci for other than rrood rea­

son.. T ·do not recolll'rt thP ·01n-N:a.tio;~ alluded to in which I .am allegeJ to ha,·e ai

that a great d ,al of th dela.v whirh oc urn'il pre­

vious. to my a. umption of office ,ra. rtue to that

cause, but it was al o undoubtedly due to other

fauses, the result mainly of a \\ ant of gcocl s s­

~~m and officers, in short, to a \\ ant o.t mon~.

I he fa.ct that the Department was slow is borne

out by m)'. having at one time been co111pelL~d t ,y req~est . H1~ Honor and the Go,·ernment Secretary to in_quue rnto the cause of delay in the issue ot

c~rtam le~s~s. to the Resident Magistrate of the Eastern D1v1s1on for distribution. In case it ~l1CJuld seem str.a1 nge to the Commissioners that I should request His Honor to inquire into matters con­

~ected with the Surv"'y Department, l wish to men­ t10n that His Honor, I thmk at the instigation of

J\lr. l: lusgrave, readily proposed or coment~d to do so. lf the statements in the letters whi-.:h b::.ve been submitted to the Commissioners on this 111,1t­ ter may be relied upon, the delay was crn.;,ed in

some measure owing to the insubordinate con

also papers in connexion with this matter which, if the Commissioners have not had access to them, I think might be procured and examined. I refer to the report of His Honor and the Government

Secretary an their examination of the Survey Office. [ 2441. J Mr. Murray cites the case of G. Graham as an instance of culpable delay on the part of a

Resident :Magistrate. I have not the papers be­

fore me, but as far as my recollection goes, it was

an unusual case, being complicated by (1) a

change of officers ; ( 2) an Acting Resident Magi­ strate being in charge of the Division who had

many other duties to attend to; and (3) the atti­

tude of the native owners. In any case the lease

applied for was that of a small paddock for graz­ ing a horse, and I believe 'the applicant was allowed to be in possession of the land notwithstanding any delay which occurred on the part of the Govern­ ment. Information in this case may be obtained

from the papers themselves as vvell as from evi­ dence taken at a Caurt of Inquiry held at Huia

by Mr. ~1urray, into certain alleged misdoings by Mr. Englis.h. I do not defend the Administration in this case, but I urge that the importance of

the m:itter has been exaggerated. [ 2442. J I do

not call to mind the precise circumstances con­

nected with Anthony's application for land at

Hisiu. Before. express,ing an opinion I would like to refer to the p.a,pers. [2443.J The dela):s in

connexion with Buchanan's and Assmann's applica­ tions were largely due to the fact that the_ l~nd

was in the Gulf District, and could only be visited once a } ear by the Resident l\Iagistrate in cbar~ ' . Last year a station was put there. As far as ~I:.

Buchanan is concerned, I ha.Ye never hearJ that he suffered anvthing owing to the Government's de­ lay, and I a~ not aware that A_ssmann suffered. To remove any false impressi?n ':hich i\fr. 1Iurr~y'~

short allusion to these apphcaticns mav occas10ri: I venture to suggest that the. pa~ers ~>e obtain1 d and the matters more closeh- mriuired mto. 2444. Tlze ('/1airnza;z.-Will Y<:ur ~xce!lenc,· i,e

satisfied if the Commissioners mqmre into the

papers that you ha Ye referred to previously ?-A I would rather see the papers m~ self, as ~here mav be points which I may be able to explam on the

papers. .

2445. Q. Then Your Excellency, the Comm1_s­ sion will have the papers sent to you, and they will be glad if you '"·ill att~ch a statement to e~ch of the papers. That will gIYe you an opportum~v of ex-

plainincr in your own time?-A. Yes, certarnlv. h • f ~446. Tlte TVitness.-It is given as .a re:ls@ ~r the alleged dilatoriness of th. Re. 1~1eiii :r~·':''.­ stra.tes, that the Administr;1tor 1 • P' actI<'a v me 1t_­ f .rent about the progress o_f white settlement. I

absolueh· deilV that there 1s _any_ s~red. of trulb in it, an

c'np itl l<. lt. Ba.rto.tl, 16th Nov., 1906.

self, I vould a k that the opinions of .Kesident _uagistrates a.nu s,s1stant .Kes1de.nt ~ lag1::it1 aLe::i, amt ot the Lluef Go ernment :::,un e) 01, ue I d.h.1.,u on this statement er msmuat10n. 1 aesue t11at tlle

rcmmcier::i retern:u to as hanng been sent to me as .I: esu.lent Magistrate be produceu. 1 may be able

to give a sanstactory explanation in answer, but as mis is rakmg bacK into a time anterior to my

a. sumption as 11.dmimstrator, l prefer to leave jt to the Commiss10~1ers, "nether 1t is to be con­ ~1dereu a relernnt matter or not. J\lr. i\lurray

g1Ves ,·erLJ atun ans,rers he alleges to have recel\ ed m .t-xecutive Council in reply to quest10ns put tJ him to members anent delays in ,lanu matter,;.

Judging 1rom what 1 know of the opinions of

members regarding land settlement, I cannot Le-1ieve that these fragmentary extracts give a correct idea of what was actually said. The witness con­ tinues by saying that there has been a change smce tile arnral of the Commission, and "since they

sLuted talking down south in Parliament.)) lie loses sight of the fact that the change commenc';!d wlien Mr. R.ichmon

apparently upon the incorrect assumption that in-· duced him to make the preceding remark, and,

in my opinion, this discloses the unfair bias

of his mind. [ 2 44 7. J The next reply I!l

more definite. I ts purport is that I am afraid that any great influx of white settlement will cause suf­ fering to the natives, and that I hate responsibility. focidentally, it is stated that he thinks I have a

nervous dread of Australia and Australian ideas. The truth is this : I do believe that unless the inte­ rests of the natives are properly safeguarded in the ~r~t insta:1ce a large influx would be injurious, and

1t 1s precisely for that reason that I have seemingly incurred the hostility of Mr. I\Iurray by endeavouring on all occasions where I see insidious attempts made to encroach upon native rights to forestall them. I

do not know for what reason he supposes me to hate responsibility. I certainly would hate the respon­ sibility of deliberatelv brealbng the promise given to the natives by my official predecessors, the respon­ sibility of deliberately contravening the native policy which has been pursued since annexation. [2448.l Regarding Mr. Murray's next reply, I do not em­ phaticallv contradict it, because a sentiment therein expressed is likely enough to have been ventilated

by me in private conversation. I maintain, however, that it is lmjust to make use of fragmentary bits of conversation without the context, and I wish it to be clearlv understood that I do not place as much im­ po1 ta~ce on alluvial gold digging as Mr. Murray, it appears, thinks I should, yet I have in no way

let my incl~naJtion interfere with thel prog!ress of mmmg. The position of the matter is this: Gold in alluviia.l deposit in districts difficult of access ha5 been found in the Northern Division. A considerable number of miners have been attracted there in con­ sequence. It can scarcel v be said that these men are

ali dra,vn from the best' class of miners. Manv of them undoubtedly are men of pluck and good dis­ position, men who ha.-e a proper sense of fair play, but it also follows that we get a large alloy of men

who arc not bona fide miners. All these men em­ ploJ a number of nati.-e labourers. The treatment meted out to them is good on the whole, but numbers of Labourers are also transferred to men of doubtful character, men to whom the value of the life of a native is less than that of the life of a dorr. I would call attention to the eviden e rriven befo;~ the Com­

mis. ioi:i bv W. T. Duriet?:, who stated that he repre­ sented the ,-iews of the miners. I gatber from his evidence that he is not content with the nresent treat­ ment of nalives by lhe Government. He would like

baptain P. tt. Bartoh, 16th ~ ov., 1906,

ii4

th m to be " di pers cl'' b1 firearms, [ 2449. J It is to be l>orne in mind al.so that the Gira. gold-field is ~xces i\·ely unhealthy to natiYes. The ctistances tu L>e covereu by carriers are long. _ -umbers of carriers

die or become mi sing. This) ear, some 17 per cent . .i kt t ) ear, cunsider:llJl · less .i the : ear before that,

22 pt:!r cent. After last )ear ' s diminution in the death­ rate 1 ,ms hopeful that the extra precaution taken to insure the \r elfare of natives would be permanent, but the last return shows th.at this promise has been

false. I do not uelie,·e that these deaths are due

in any great degree to carelessnes on the part of em-1, 1c. _, ers, but I cannot blink the fact that they are a cause ,rhich may disgust natives from working for white men, irrespective of place and condition. Par­ ticularly is this liabl e to be so in the case of raw

natives recruited from the west. It will take a long time to convince natives who have come to regard working for the white man with horror, owing to the ckatb-rate on the ~ orthern fields, that his life will be

secure when working on the plantations. It is for these reasons tha.t l may ha ,·c l)ri ,·ateh expressed the vi ew that the presence of alluvial gold ma.y prove t, 1 Lie harmful to the eventual ,relfare of the Terri­ tory, Gut I reitcr,a te that the fact that the gold being

present has not influenced me against the mining in­ dustry. [2450]. I am sure that as much has Lieen done t o assist alluvial aml reef miners in the last two years as theY' could reason.ablv expect, having regard

to the reve nue a.t command and other claims on the Administration. The eviqence gi;-en bv the miners themseh es before the Commission, which I have had the privilege of reading, appears to be at vari,ance

with what Mr. Murrav seeks to imply. [2451.]1 Ad­ ditional reasons are then given for the hostile a tti­ tude which is attributed to me b\' Mr. Murrav as towards white settlement, one of these being "a lack

of sympathy with d emocratic idea s. " Does Mr. l\J urray i.mpl y tha.t if I had Liecn more in sympathy with those ideas white settlers ,rnuld ha Ye come during the last two Years in large r numbers? [2452 .]

:\Iv views regarding native titl e to la.nds in Papua a.re brnadl y these : ( r) A promise has been made to the natives that their land will not be taken from them, and I maintain that a promise made by Government

must be kept. I reg,ard this as an axiom. Tt would, ir1 my opinion, have been far better in the first in ­ stance if the Crmrn had annexed all the land, as

though by conciuest, and had the n returnea t o the nati\·es as much, or more, than theY reo uire d for gn.r­ dens or hunting. Judging from what I knmv of the n atives in British Kew Guinea, that ,rnuld have bee n

understood b\· them. but the other principle was adopted, and a promise was m1de. It is my bounden duty to see that a promise made bv the Crown is kept inviolate. If the native-s have cause to find that

the word of the Government cannot be trusted, then ,'.lll the patient work of th last twenty yea.rs will have been wasted. [ 2453.J l\Jr. l\IurraY cites instances in which applicants were unable to obtain land beca.use

the natives would not sell. Apparentlv, he thinks theY should be compelled to sell their land because an ·immigrant has applied for it. The clause in the new Land Ordinance, which I opposed, was an utterly unfair one, in my opinion. I regarded it as

an attempt to insert the thin edge of the wedge.

There are at present ever I ,000,000 acre s of Crown land, the bulk of it ],and of ftr st-rate quality. The re are other large tracts of land ,Yhich may probably l)(' bought or declared ,~aste or va ant. I see no

reason for apprehension on the ground that legiti­ mate settlement. i. lil-eh· to be ohstruct d owing t natiY s refusing to part with their lands. [ 24::_i . l \.Vith r ference to the so-called Sogeri sea.re, and tu

~fr. Gre -ne' complaint that be is no t protected by the Govemment, I am not a,rare that he has shown that there was eYer any r ason for his nen·ous appre-

hension. It is no, , and ahtay will be, it 1po sibk for the GoYernmt:nt to !:;Upph· police detachments to Frotect the property of nerrnus planters from enemies.· L 2455. J '1·11e best solution for the native labour dith­

cu!tv ,rnuld be for the GoYernment to take O\er ·.lle recr~iting. lt would inroh-e a considerable out!a y in the hrst instance, a.nd a good deal of money to maintain, but there would be an immediate return, and the sen·ice ,rou!d, no doubt, pay for itself. Wbe­

Lher a large supply of labour for the Northern golu­

rields ·would be forthcoming under the new system than is no\v obtained is doubtful. Any Governmeut officia l who h.as had any expe rience in any out-district kr.ows how important it is to pre,·ent, a.s far as pos­ sible, the recruiters making use of Village Ccnstables

to obtain " boys." The papers that I hand in ,rill

show the evil result th.a.t may follmr.-[Fapers 1064/ 06 handed in.] It is true that the question i11 the case i,n point has not been brought to a close, but it may lJ.e seen therefrom what Mr. Campbell's opinion is. l\lr. Murray deliberately stwtes th{1t the Government.makes a principle of discouraging na.ti,·es going out to " ·ork. I am unaware of it. It would

Lie inte resting to know ou.1 what grounds he bases that statement. [2456.J Ir. Murray proceeds to t.ak e . credit for having voted against the Government in order to carry certain .amendments to the K :.i.ti ve:

Labour Ordinance. This Ordinance was carefully framed in Executive Council. Officers who have had much experience in the working of the Ordinance ,rere asked to prnpose such additions and altera­ tions as they thought would be advantageous. These ,Y ere embodied in the new Ordinance. It is only

officers who are constantly in touch with the working of the Ordinance ,rho are able to judge hmY far it is possible to go in the int~rest of the employer. The ob­ ject of ithe Administration is to preserve as nearly as

p8ss ible the balance of interest between the emplover and the employe. It is an Ordinance upon ,Yhich the future prosperity of the Territory largely depends, and the utmost carec has always beer! _ t_ak en to see

that its provisions are c:uried out. I do not recol­ lec t l\Ir. l\Iurray having said to me that it was pns­ sibl e that he might vote against the G:)vcrnment. On the contrary, the result of the short conversa­

tion we had upon the matter left a distinct impres­ sior: Oii .my mind that his support could be c:oun1P.c1 upon. I was astonished when I found that he sup· ported the non-official members in, I think, every .1mendment proposed by them. At least one of thrm

would have caused a glaring injustice to the J;atiw~ if it became law. The amendment in question ·was moved by i\Ir. Whitten, himself a labour recruiter. Its object ,ms to deprive the Administrator or any of his officers of the power to prevent a recruiter

taking the natives from, say, J okea, on the ,vesrerc boundary of the Central Division, duect to Cape · e t on or any intervening place, incl uding the South­ Easterr. Division, there to be signed on for ,rnrk on the ~ orthern gold-field or elsewhere. That amend­

ment, I am glad to say, was not carried. · At my

urgent request the consideration o'f tbe clause was p0sti:·::med, and a counter amendment in its place, proposed by Mr. Campbell, which was ucobjection ­ able, was finally carried. The statement made· that through i\fr. i\Iurray's efforts, after two years or eighteen months' endeavour, the clause compelling

a deserter to complete his period of service lo t tc, his employer was eventually embodied in the draft Bill, is incorrect. It was mooted when the i-ati \'L Labour Ordinance of 1900 was under cor. ideration,

long before i\Ir. Murra · came to the T erritorv and "·.as embodied by general agreement in the' nE:w Labour Ordinance ,Yhen und r di cussior. earh· in 1905. It was formallv pa sed in XO\·ernber 1-905.

In September, 1905, 1 al o find that in a de patch

to the GO\·e rnor-General I sai d that it was proposed

i 5 4aptnin F. R. Bnrfot11 16th :Nov., 1!)06.

to ir.clmie this pro-;ision in tl1e .:. 1ative tabvur Ordi­ nance , and tha~ it would meet the reque t put for­ :vard by the mm~rs. _In regard to this matter I put rn papers, Confidential irrnute from ir Georo-e Le, Hunte to the Ch1ef Judicial Officer, 21 t Jun~,

l 899.- [Papers ·tmt in.] I also put in a draft

copy of the Native Lal.xmr Ordir.. ance. This ,yas sent to me by Mr. Musgrave, with a minute dated the 25th September, 1905, and the clauses which 11ad been embodied in this draft ordinance, though not fo:111ally passed, were generally agreed upon at

a previous meeting o"f the Executive Council. Clause 9 i:-: this draft ordinance makes provision on this subJect. If further corroboration of my contenticn is required that Mr. Murrav. was not the cause of

this amendment being inserted, I would ask that Mr. Ballantine .and Mr. Campbell be questioned, those two officers having been principally concerned with the proposals made at the preliminary consul­ tations. A native deserting on the gold-field road is usually loaded. If he deserts he must necessarily be counted liable for theft, though probably the

load, .as often as not, is thrown away as a mere

encumbrance. In any case, if the boy deserts with a load, and his employer lodges a complaint, and the boy is caught and brought before the Court, the value of the goods iost or stolen is deducted from

the amount of salary to be paid by the employer. I c.annot speak with certainty, but I should say that by far the greater number of boys who desert are recaptured and taken back at Government expense

to their employers. It is impossible to say in many instances whether the boy who is missing has deli­ berately deserted or has died on the road, but Mr. :Murray would, apparently, be prepared to assume

that all .missing boys are thieve~ ar..d deserters. T_he wages of dece ased boys are paid to the next-of-km, and in the rare cases where the deserter has suc­ ceeded in reaching his village, and no warrant for his arrest has been applied for, his wages would, I

assume, be paid t0 the boy himself if he came for­ ward for them. If the wages due to the deceased native were not paid to the _next-of-kin, i~ would probably soon lead to not a smgle boy comi1:g. ~or­

ward for employment in the _Northern Divis1011. This is probably one of those mst~nc~s wh~.re _!he Government is particular to keep £~1th with the

native in the interest of the Possession at la~ge. [2457.J In the following statement Mr. Murray gives his reason for supporting an amendment broug;ht forward to legalize the removal of boys temporanly beyond the Territory by miners or others . . . I was

astounded when Mr. Murray got up to speak m sup­ port of this amendment. It seemed to m~ then,

and it does so now, that he was encouragmg by

legal enactment our mir..ers to transgr~ss. C:erI?an Customs laws, to take boys beyond ou_r J~nsdiction, and, in fact, to oppose the whole pnnciple of !he Government policy . regar?ing the pr~p~r pr?tection of natives, besides mvolvrng the A?mmi~trat10~1 and

the Commonwealth in needless_ difficulties with a friendh- Po,rer. The discussion turned upon the latter ~spect of the matter, _and Mr. Murray _the~ made a remark vvhich I ,cons1dered so extr~ordmary

that I afterwards made a r.ote of it. His words

were as follows, or words to that effect :-'.' ~ssum· ing that we do not know whethe~ t~e gol? 1s m our Territory or German Territory, 1t is des1rabJe !hat we should get it before t~e Germans. This. 1s · a

good reason for passing this amendment, for 1t en­ ables miners to take labourers ur.de! contract

natives . beyond the Territory, outside our JUnsd1c­ tior., by miners and others. The clause was even-

tua.UY put, and was carried on the votes, m~ing to fr. Campbell declining to record his vote for or ctgainst. Ir. :Murray say s that the practice has ob­ tained of using the Waria River as an approach to the field, and urges this as ,a reason for his action in endeavouring to render such action legal, but I

a.m unaware, and I do not believe, that up to the time the Bill was under consideration, the river has been so used. If it has been used so since it is

largely owing to the support given by :Mr. Murray to the amendment. There is one paper which I wish to put in in regard to the evidence that I have given in reference to my opinions on the presence of allu­ vial gold, and to show that whatever my .:>picion in regard to the thing may be, I have not allowed it to influence my action. It is dated 9 / 10 / 05, u

minute to the Government Secretary.-[Papcr put in.] [2458.J Mr. Murrav cites a case in which he states that I excluded a n-ative from ,vhat he quaintly cails the "vice-regal circle," because he wore a waist­ coat and a hat, which he had presumably liou,3ht by

wages earned on the Mambare, and this is cited as an instance of the desire of the Administrator to keep r.atives in their villages. This is followed by another statement, in which Mr. ~iurray endeavours to show that my bias against the mining interest caused me even to be hostile to the natives who haJ

been ,rnrking there. I canr.ot do otherwise than say, in my opinion, these remarks are malicious. The fact that I took exception to the natives in

ques tion wearing clothes had nothing whatever to do with the fact th.at they hag_bfen working for miners or anybody else. I have an abhorrence of natives \\·earing unnecessary clothing. I have gone to the

trouble of getting a notice translated into 1fotuar: and circulated, warning natives against the danger of wearing unnecessary clothir.g. It would have been the same if those natives had b~n working for

Burns, Philp, and Co. at Port Moresl,y. I remem­ ber reproaching the London Missionary Society' s teacher at Keuru on the very same day for .arraying a few small boys he had living at the place in pink

and blue sailor suits and knicker-backers. [2459.J As for the man at Opa.u, I know that I in quired

into thP, circumstances, because he brought up his offending wife and the co-respondent, and ,ms in a great state of anger. I very likely told him that he was 'foolish to have left a young wife for a year or more, but it is on record that I took dawn his

name, and that of the other parties concerned, and I am certain that he was informed bv me that a

Government offi cer was sh~rtly to be- placed at Kerema, which is a short distar:ce from Opau, to whom he should refer his complaint. I have made a point throughout of not calling upon my Private Secret.ary to corroborate any denial of charges made against me, b~t the malicious nature

of this charge is such that I am prepared

to call upon him if the Commission de­

sire. [2460.J It is not necessary, I think, to re­

peat the reasons why applications for land, apart from those for Mission bodies, have been so few, but I repudiate the inference which Mr. Murray draws therefrom, which I consider to be unfair. The cause of the stagnation in regard to white

settlement was, I repeat, not of my own making. 1\fr. Murray says that there was no cause for it, be­ cause leases could be granted. Can he cite in­

stances in which applications to lease we,.e rdusvd without good mason for refus:i l? ~2-161.l Tlw next alleged instance given by 1Ir. ~f urr:1\ is al:c· unfounded. He speaks of my bein g deprE -=sl' I fo·· some time because of a reported deYelopnwnt i11 mining at Woodlark. On the ccntrary, the n:

tives go to work there willingly, the, - ~H' , 11

treated, and very few die. I repudiate the ins inus -tion with indignation. [2462.J Then he say:-,

HZ

116 Captnin F. lt. Barton, 16th Nov., 1906. in reply to a question put to me by him, that I

stated there would be less objection to planters, be· cause there would be fewer. [ 2463.] I ask the

Commissioners to remember that these conversa­ tions took place almost in ariably oYer my own table on the lJ1 errie England, and that they were friendl), haphazard conversations, in which one

does not weigh one's words in the presence of

gentlemen. I cannot say that the words were not used Ly me. I am not in the habit of taking and

keeping notes of conversations used on such occa­ sions. I challenge any person who has not

l e~n disaffected against me personally to prove that L b~ 1ve done anything to impede either agricultural or mining developments. My despatches alone go to show this, but if further proof be wanted, I

would wish individuals to be called. It will be a sufficient answer to the next accusation if I hand in the papers concerning the matter. [2464.J Ur.

~Iurray has marshalled a large array of allegations to show that I am averse to white settlement, and the way in which my opinion as to officers becoming married is dragged in by the heels to support his

case against me is noteworthy as an instance of his methods. " In regard to the point of lack of en­

couragement to white settlement, there is a minor point that officers should not be married." The connexion between these two things is so absurdly slight, that I can only suppose that there was a

personal reason for introducing it. It, at all

events, is made use of to quote words alleged to have been used oy me. As I have elsewhere said,

intended, I say it is untrue. L 240~.] Be ue t

proceeds to criticize the expedition made up :\fount Albert Edward by r 1r. :Monckton as an instance of the lack of encouragement to white settlement. It is difficult to see how the two things are connecte c.l.

However, it is said that ~Ir. :Monckton left Kokoda Station insufficiently defended. I think it will seen from the papers on the subject that this was not so. [2469]. Mr. :Murray then deliberately

states that Meek' s carriers were murdered as a re­ sult. The facts disclosed by the papers show that this charge is without a.I11y foundation whatever. [2470.J If it is considered necessary in my own in­

terest that I should c.aill evidence to disprove that I have displayed favoritism, I am fully prepared to do so. It is a vile imputation. )fr. Murray

states that the mainsprings of Administrative action are personal spite and favoritism. I take it that

the Commissioners will not accept that statement as far as it applies to me without proof, and I

challenge His Honor to show that there is as much as a vestige of truth in it.

l cannot sav that the words were not used, because I have not ·kept notes of the conversations, and it was presumab]v long ago; but I maintain that it is an utterly unfair thing and a shameful betrayal of

confidence to quote words and expressions used in friendly conversations. The question regarding officers marrying is so mnch beside the point, that I do not propose to give my views to the Commis-

sioners unless thev are called for. 2465. i\lr. Mur-ray next states that if he thought there was any danger of hardship being inflicted on the native, he would do pretty well anything to

avoid it. This is how he would secure the interests of the natives: He would allow recruiters to take natives from Jokeo to Cape Nelson without refer­ ence to any intervening magistrate. He would not

object if the recruiter took six months or more en route the boy meanwhile receiving no pay. He cann~t see that there would be hardship to a native being taken over 500 miles from his home, and

there, amongst strange people, and without an inter­ preter, to have to decide whether he would work somewhere-he knows not where, for a period-he knows not how long. [2466.J Mr. Murray then

insinuates that the true number of natives who are killed in conflict with Government patties is wil­ fully concealed. He says that nearly all of these natives who have been killed had been shot by i\lr.

).Ionckton and bv irr. Bruce, who, for some reason obscure to me, -are des.ignated by His Honor as particular friends of mine. 1Ir. Monckton is not here to defend himself, but I take it that the Com­

missioners will not be averse to accepting 1Ir.

Monckton's written word. His reports will be

found in the Goyernment Secretary's office. Mr. Bruce is here, and can speak for himself-~n fact, I desire that he should do so. I regard tl11s state­ r'ent of . !r. :'.\f urra, 's a an absolutely unjustifi­

abl rdloction upon the character of two loyal

public offir<>rs. [2467.J The allusion made to th death of th, 1:ite Judge Robinson, I can only ck­ scribe : s co~ 1tem1 til-ile. Mr. Murray's appar nt cont ,nt i )11 is that bc.'ca 1. e Ur. Robinson was a sup­

porter f tl.c white m~rn, he had not a friend in tl

Public Scr\'icc. T f that is the inference that is

247 1. 111 regard to the Richmond case, the Com­ missioners have the papers., and, unless called upon to answer questions,.,. I do not propose to refer to the matter now, beyond pointing out that 1\lr. Mur­

ray has recorded his opinion that the Council which considered l\lr. Richmond's suspension was a packed Council. It would be interesting to know whether

he has. held that opinion all along. l\lr. :MusgraYe made an insinuation in his protest handed in to the Council when I\Ir. Richmond was before it, which pointed to his being of the same opinion, viz., that

it was a packed Council, yet in the face of all this i\lr. Murray recorded his, opinion in writing at

Executive Council in September, when the question of suspending Mr. Musgrave was before it, that, to quote the actual words, " nothing in the document can, in my view, be construed as an imputation

upon His Excellency of any kind whatever." I have already referred to the charge of favoritism, and although it is brought forward again in an

almost more offensiv~ guise than before, I do not consider it necessary to take further notice of it. 2472. The attack is then directed for a space on 1\lr. Ballantine, who, I believe, has defended him­

self. I see reference is made to the Bunting case. I have not seen the papers referring to this case

for, I think, two years. I do not clearly recollect

the circumstances, but as. my name has been men­ tioned in connexion therewith, I am prepared to explain as far as I can, any point in the matter,

but I 'should like to see the papers again first.

[ 247 3. J I should also like to see the pap~rs r~­

ferring to the matter of 1\fr. Matthews leavmg his office to take a photograph. 2474. Mr. Murray contends that my bias would be expased if my minutes to the Government S c­

retary were contrasted with those to the Treasurer, but I do not know what he intends should be

implied from that, because I do not write minutes direct to the Treasurer except on such occa ions when the Treasurer is accompanying me to out­ stations on duty. I show three minutes which

pa sed direct between myself and the Treasur~r when we were away from Port Moresby. Then 1t appears th.at I wrote a minute to Mr. ~Iatthews, which is characterized as " savage." I do not

know to what Mr. ~ Iurray refer , unless it is to a

matter in conn xio with 1Ir. Richmond' su pen­ sion. The Commis ion I thinl~. haYe a opy of

the mi.nut in question. Then fol low a num er of instanc l roucrht forward with the attempt to . ho"· tb:i.t I did all mann r of injustice. to offi ers "ho

had com into offi ial conflict ,Yifh fr. Ballan'inc. Tht:y are on and :111 uttcrl y unfounded. [ ..: n 5. J

! received the following letter from ~Ir. Ballantine m regard to Captain Rothwell's dismissal:-'' Dea C t . B "Ela, r9th August, r905. r ap am arton, '' I rur:1 g~ad to hear of the proposed change in

the M errze England, thcugh I am also sorry for Poth­ well. I expe~t you have written a minute about

Rothwell gettmg some consideration. If so, could yon let me k:1-ow by bearer ,vhat it is, so that I ma· arrange fo~ its p~yment? As it is Saturday, and

the Ysabel 1s commg in, minutes mav be .accidental!'"· delayed. • J

'' Yours very truly, " D. BALLANTINE."

2476. It is also stated, among other things, that Mr. Russell was removed from Mekeo to the Sur­ ~ey_ Office, and that this is due in some direct or

mduect way to Mr. Ballantine. In a letter from

Mr. Ballantine· to myself the follow:ng passage occurs : " It seems rather hard on Russell that he

should pay 6s. a day for each 0£ his children while travelling on. the Merrie England. The charge

was made stiff to prevent children being carried, but I would recommend that in this case only half­ rate be charged. The Go,·ernment will still make a profit charging rs. a meal a day." The last

lette r, although undated, was written subsequent to the tilme Mr. Russell left Mekeo. ·

247_7. From this Mr. Murray proceeds to give a list of occasions upon which Mr. Ballantine was intoxicated. I do not know when Mr. Ballantine

first contracted the occas~'Onal habit of drinking. I was unaware of it before I became Administrator. As far as I can recopect, it has never been re­

ported to me officially in writing by the Govern­ ment Secretary, though he has alluded to it inci­ dentally in private lette~s, and once it came UJ~

in conversation between Mr. Musgraive and myself on the Merrie England, but, as far as my recol ­ lection serves, the subject on that occasion was :~,­ traduced by me. I have once seen Mr. Ballantine

intoxicated in his house, whither I had gone to con­ sult him upon some matter, I. forget what. Th\;

was in January, r 90 5. I knew that he would hear

that I had seen him intoxicated, and had hoped

that that would be a sufficient warning to him to

keep sober in future. The next occas:on wh en I

heard that he had been drinking was when I re­

turned from the cruise of inspection in the west

in the following l\Iarch, and I then wro~e to h_im priivately informing him that he 1:rn~t e1the~ give me his promise to refrain from dnnkmg agam, or resicrn his appointment. I haYe not got a copy of that letter, but I band in his reply. Towards the

end of March he wrote to ask me whether he could go on leave lat~r ~In the. year, and I stron_gly urged him to go. His mtent10n was t~ leave m August

or September. In August the Richmond ca_se oc ­ curred-, and, as I felt then that under. the cucu_m­ stances it was imperative to have a semor e~ecutive officer whose loyalty I could rely ?n 11:1 Port

Moresby, I asked him to postpone his. gomg on leave for aJ while. Subsequently to this he had

another short bout, and when he recovered he asked by letter to my Private Secretary whether he :vas to be suspended or return to his office. In view

of the fact that he had been in the country for

some fourteen years, and had been ~way on l~ave of absence for but short. periods dun_ng th~t time, and that I had kept him from takm_g his JeaYe

when he expected to go, _I felt_ that 1t would be

unjust to take action aga:nst him, or, rat.h~r.' to

suspend him. 124 78. J I pass over t~e ,cnh~1sm_s which follow referring to Mr. ~all~ntme s capac1-tiies as Magistrate until the poin t 1s reached ron­ cerning the deficiencies of stores at Ioma. The

17 Onptnin F. R. Barton, 16th Nov., 1906.

papers concerning that matter are in the hands of the Commis ioners. It will be seen therefrom that ::\1r. J. B. Higg:nson's resignation was written out preYious to nw arriYal at Ioma. It ,rill further­ more be seen from his minutes that the attitude he a sumed towards the Resident :\fagistrate was one

of d fiance. In the case of :\Jr. C. B. Higginson,

there had Leen certain entries of stores issued by him, as recorded in the Store Issue Book, which he could not explain. On the night before leav­ ing, I had both brothers before me. I gave J. B.

H=gginson the option of being suspended, and being examined before Executi,·e Council, or resigning. He replied that, if I pre sed the question of tbe

missing store . he would accent suspension and see it out, but that otherwise he would resign. He

informed me then that he had made up his mind some time before to resign, and had already written out his resignation. I accepted it. C. B. H iggin­ son was informed by me that I regarded the item of the abnormal quantity of kerosene issued, which he was unable to expla:tn, as a; very serious matter, that he could not be oYer-careful in dealing with Government property, and so forth, and then told him that I would give him another chance. I

have not ihad an opportunity of referring to the papers. They were in ·my possession a short time ago, but have been sent for by the Commissioners, and I did not know this subject was to be brought up in evidence.

2479. T!te Cltairman.-If you desire to see the papers, of course they w= 111 ~ sent back to you?­ A. I feel so sure on this noint that I do not think

it is necessarv. ·

2480. Tlz e · TVitness.--When I was at Tamata, in June, r905, I was down ·with fever most of the

time. As I w:is unable to v· 1sit the miners at the

Gira, I requested m · private secretary, :i\fr. Jewell, to do so. Tl1is he did and was aw:iv two or three days. J clearly recollect that Mr. Ballantine and e-rE'.n_bodv else at the ~ta,tion were very busy ex­

ammrng hooks, &c., dunng the whole time we were at T ~ma.ta , working. in fact, both day and night. Considering that I had suspended Mr. Richmond before I. as~ed l\1r. Mur_rav :rnv advice on the pro­ ce

asked him whether I could do so without reference to the Executive Council. I certainly have no re­ collection of having asked him such a quest"ion. Th:it concludes my remarks on the ev='dence itself. but I would like to add a few more on the aeneral trend of the evidence. b

_2481. It was not until I had read Mr. Murray's evidence that I became convinced of his disloyaltY. I can see now that he has been disloyal from tl;e very first. It is true that I have had doubts some­

times, ~ut I have always succeeded in brushing the~ ~1de.. In_st<:ad o_f doing his best to help mv adm1mstration, 1t 1s evident to me now that he ha·s seized opportunities to weaken it. I have not the least idea why he should have taken a dislike to me. . I have not, as far as I know, given him cause.

Judging from his social ~ttitu_de, ! .have had every reason to suppose that his d:ispos1t10n towa:rds me was friendly. He has scarcely ever failed to ac­ cept my ho pitality, and I have talked to him and

before bim without resen-e, and with the result th~t I now find that he has been carefully no('na t?rngs ! have. said in friendly, unguarded conversa~ tlon, with a n w of using them to my disadvantage. :\fr. :.Iurra, has betra.' ed mv confidence, and i1z1 the face of this he has the effrontery to say thM -I am not a fair-minr1er1 man. I do not like ·10 introduce m?re per~onal reflections into this matter than I c:in

with JUst-ce to nw~elf amid, but one instanre goes to show that ~Ir. ::\Im?ay has deceived me. [2 482.J When the Liquor Bill was passed in E:xecuti,·e

nptnin . R. BnrtJD, 16th , ' ov., 1000.

118

Ccuncil, in Port )Ioresbv, a liquor licence-fee of £'25 was appro\'ed. I clearly recollect the con­

Yer ation which then took place rehting to possible amendments being mm·e d by the non-ofiicial mem­ bers to t he seY eral Bills, and as to how long ir1:

would prob abiy take to put the Bills through. I

said I did not suppose there would be any amend­ ment propo ed to the Liq~or Bill, and Mr. :Murray: replied that he did not think it likely, un­

le s )Ir. Whitten, who holds several licences, tried to get the licence-fee reduce d. I replied that I

did not th :1nk it too high ; did he? And Mr. Mur­

ray then, in a reassuring manner, said he did not

think it any t oo high, and even a higher fee would not be too much. When the B ;_(}l came before the LegislatiYe Council at Samarai, Mr. Whitten pro­ posed that it should be reduced to £15. l\lr.

~Iurray, without clemur, supported the ameridment, and it was carried. I mai'ntain that Mr. Murray's

action in this case was due either to his inclination to hamper the Administration, or to gain popularity with a section of the public. [ 2483.J A general

review of his evidence reveals, in mv opinion, a

pers,anal bias against me, and against, l\fr ~ Ballan­ tine. He has mixed up truth and fabrication with ingenious care, but I urge that, where spite and

betraval are two such notable features of the evi­ dence' throughout, the evJdence, in my opinion, can­ not be considered to carry vveight. The only

thing which lends importrnce to the evidence is that it was gi vern by the Chie f J udici.a1 l Officer. Had it been gi,-en by any other person, I should not have troubled to answer it. That is all.

2484. Tlze Clzairman.-Ts there no traoe of any instructions to the late Acting Administrator re­ garding the suspension of granting of fee simple? -A. I am not aware of any. Search has been

made, but none has been found. 2485. Q. What were the relations between Mr. Richmond and Mr. Matthews to which you attri­ bute partially the delay in land matters ?--A. They

are shown in letters which have been sent to the

Commissioners at their request. 2486. Q. Cannot Assistant Resident Magistrates act in land matters if the Resident Magistrate is too busy or absent ?-A. There is no objection from my point of view, but it would remain with the

Resident Magistrate whether he permitted the As­ sistant Resident Magistrate to do so or not. 2487. O. Referring to the case of Graham, could not 1\Ir. Ballantine have deputed his Assistant

Resident Magistrate to attend to that matter?­ A. Dndoubtedly, if there was one available. 2488. Q. You say, "A promise has been made to the nati,·es that their land shall not be taken

from them. I maintain that a Government pro­

mise should be kept. l regard this as an axio'm."

Did the Government mak that promise ?- A. In my opinion, they most 11ndoubtec.lly did. It is on record. 2489. 0. Do you refer to Commodore Erskine's

pro lama1.ion when you say, "Tt is on record"?­ A. ~ot to his proclamation, but to a speech which was carefullv framed by him, which ,ras sent bv him to Dr. La,YeS, b\:-. whom it was translated into

the -:\f otnan

( xi te nce. I belieYe that it was repeated at seYeral nhce" alone; the coast bv the p 0 ople on the flagship fro 11 T cvuipi to Teste Island. 2..i90. (). Would not the whole of the peopl on

the north-co.st coast ancl inland hear nothing of it? -A. _ -ot at the time but they would natmall ·

hear of it afterwards from those who had heard the promi e made. It would pass from mouth to

mouth. · 2491. Q. In those early days, considering the

fact that the north-east and inland nati \-e s spoke different languages and had little to do with each othe r, is it likely that they would haYe heard?­ A. A matter of that kind, in my opinion, spreads in

the same ,vay among new tribes as the teaching, under Government influence, that it is wrong to kill people. 2492 . Q. Do 3ou believe that, at the •present

time, the average native really knaws anything -0f the promise that was made years ago ?-A. 1 0 _; I

think the majority of them ,yould not know of the circumstances of the original promise. 2493. Q. Have you read Mr. Greene' s evidence? Is it correct as to circumstances ?-A .. l have read it very hurrictlly, and would not like ta express an opinion without having an opportunity of reading it again.

2494. Q. Referring to His Honor's allegation of favoritism, you said in your evidence this

morning, " If it is considered necessary for me

to call evidence, I am prepared to do so." I would like Your Excellency to unders·tand that we wish you to follow a course independent of any sugges­ tion from us, one way or the other ?-A. I merely meant to infer that if there were any doubts in the

minds of the Commissioners in regard to such an accusation, I hoped they would not fail to go more deeply into the matter. That is ''"hat I meant, I

think. 2495. Mr. JI erbert.-There "·as another matter in connexion with the evidence this morning bearing upon the question of officers being married or not,

and there I remember you said, " I will not give

my views unless the Commssioners call for them." The same remark which the Chairman has made will apply to that as in the former instance. We

do not wish expressly to call for anvthing, but hope to have the fullest information, and if there is anv information you can give, you will take vour own, course whether to present it or not ?-A. °I will be

glad to answer any questions you ask, and ~ive

mv views on the matter. ·2496. Q. Will you give vour views now?-A. yes. l\Iy views on this subject are that an officer

at an out station cannot perform his work and duties as well if he is m1arried as if ·he is single. Thatl

is practicallY what it amounts to, and upon that I should like to be asked questions. 2497 . Q. By reason of what in po.rticular?- A. By reason of, perhaps, his wife becoming ill, and claiming his presence at home when he should be eh:e where. Bv the necessi.tv or the proba.bilitv of

his having children with siniilar interference to Go­ vernment work. By reason of the smallness of the salaries of Government officers, which does not' enable them to support a ,Yife and children in

Jew Guinea, and much less keeping up two estab­ lishments, one in Australia, anct one in _ -ew

Guinea. 2498. Q. Will you refer to copy of Hi

Honors evidence where he states:- " Still, in re­ gard to the lack of encouragement of " ·hite settle­ ment, " do\\-n to the "·ord "objection . ' ,vill vou

re~

that I do not recollect the com·e;·sr; tion. I 'l m

quite prepared to aclmit that j t ma,. .ha Ye taken

place, hut it does not nece sa.rih· follow that I•

c;houl

Turner's eY1dcnce. I wid1 lo mak thE' followin~

119 Cnptnin F. R. Barton, lGth Nov., 1906.

s_tatem~nt in regard to Mr. ri'urner' s eyidence :-He fn~t of al~ complain_s that he was pa sed m·er, and ~~~E .\lr ·. l\lannrng, lp the first place, and that :\Ir.

11 n, ~n the se-.:cnd place, ,rerc promoted, " ·bile

he rema~ned at Samarai, on the same salan. :\Ir. 1;'urner. 1s :\lr. . Campbell's right hand ~an at

Samar::u. I beheye him to be a thoroughly capable officer. For a long time :\Ir. Campbell proposed

to go on leave, and it ,ms popularly rumoured that! he would probably not return to the Possession. :\Ir. Campbell himself did not inform me that he :vould not return, but I formed the conclusion that 1! was ,·ery likely that he would not do so. I ce4

lteve that he applied to Sir William l\bcGregor for employment in Africa, and had taken other

s~eps to seek employn::ent else,Yhere. In any case, \\'ere Mr. Campbell to take lea Ye for the ·ear. to

\\'hic:h he was entitled, there was nobodv else but ~Jr. T~1mer whom I could put with the' same r -

hance m charge of Samarai. -in the Eastern Divi­ sion, the chief reason being that he knew the

ropes. In the second place, i\J r. Turner complains that. he was n_ot allowed to occupy the Government Residency while be was acting for :\fr. Campbell. I gave :i\Ir. Turner written instructions, amongst other things, that he was not to o::::cupy the Resi­

dency. My reasons for doing this were that I did

not consider it advisabie for reasons which I

would like private] y to exp bin to the Commis­

sioners, and which cast no reflection whatever on Mr. Turner, personally. I am under the impression that I spoke to i\Ir. Campbell on this subject be­

fore he went on leave, and Mr. Campbell was of

opinion that it would not be advisable for !\[t.

Turner to occupy the R r,sidency . He also subse­ quently said so in a letter which I produce for, the perusal of the Commissioners. 2500. Tlte· Cltairman.-Being a good officer, whv· was not 1fr. Turner offered either of the posi­

tions now occupied by Messrs. Manning and Grif­ fin ?-A.. I cannot recollect the reasons I took into consideration when Mr. Manning was appointed, but I can clearly recollect that I consi·dered whether

Mr. Griffin should be appointed _to the Gulf or

whether Mr. Turner should be given the oppor­ tunitv and I came to the conclusion that the in­

terest; of the Territory would be best sen'ed bv ap-pointing Mr. Griffin. . .

2501. Q. Do you consider Mr. Gnffin a_ better man than 'Mr. Turner ?-A. Tbev are, m my

opinion, equally good men._ I "·ish to add that,

while we are on the question, one of my reasons

for thinkjng tbat it is not a good thing for offi~rs

who are liable to be placed at far-away out-stations to be married is that it places the Administrator

in a somewhat difficult position, when pro1!1otions have to be made, jf he believe~ tha! a ~amed of­ ficer, whose wife may ha:'e to live ,nth him ~t some such out-station, cannot in the nature of thm~s so efficientlv earn· out his duties as if be ,rere a sm~le

man, an:d thu~ be unhampered. 2so2 . Q. Would that applv also t~ the Cape

Nelson appointment ?-A. I do not tb1?k so, n?t to the same extent. 1 think I am _quite safe m

stating that at that da_te, Ur. 1~~rnnmg, who ?ad seen considerable se.rvice as. Pnvate Secr~tar: ~o three Administrators, and had had expenence m the management of nolice, _who ~ad a good know­

ledge of one of. the native d~a~ects, . and_ who

othenYise bad received a good trammg, "_as, in m\· opinion, more ]lkelY to conduct the aff aus Of the station better than :\Ir. Turner· 250 .~. Q. Had ~Ir. Turner 1;0 ~no"·!edgie o~ the

native language th.1t :\Ir. ~Iannmg _had :-A . . - o. 2 504. T !te ff itncss .-Tl:e matter m ,rb1ch l

. h. t ke ,, st"tement m regard to :\Ir. Ro h- w1s o ma "" ti • • fort's evidem:::e is in relation to a quotation from .a

despatch ,nitten b\· me to the Gorernor-General on the O'Brien case. Mr. Ro:hfort there S3.) s that I

,notic as follmr : -' :\Ir. Roch fort has aspired to Le mad an Honoran· ~[agi trate for the Posses­ sion.'· I do not den{· havin

them to be true in fact j but whether it ,ms told

me by somebody else at the time that :\Ir. Rochfort had a pired to be made an Honorary _:\Iagistrate, or whether it was an idea which I had got into my own head, I cannot now say. I thought nothing

more of the matter until JanuarI, 1906, when on my way through Sam3.rai I received a letter from Mr. Rochfort demanding an apology for stating that be was a person who bad aspired to be made an

Honorary Magistrate of the Possession. The letter was acknowledged by m Private Secretary on the same da,· I received it. I received several letters

from him. I wish to state that if Mr. Rochfort

had ,rritten to me and pointed out in a polite man­ ner that I had made a mistake in stating that he

had aspired to b made an Honorary Magistrate, I should have had no compunction whatever ir: writin~ to him as soon as I verified the fact at

the Government Secretarv's office to express my regret at having made a mistake, and at the same time have ,rritten officiallv to th e GoYernor-General explaining that a mistake' had been made by me.

2505. Tlte TVitness.-It has so often been said in the States of the Ccmmomrealth that ~ew

Guinea has remained for so long in a state of un­ accountable stagnation, that I think the Commis­ sioners should know-if they do not know already -that two applications in 1900-one for 200,000 ttcres, and one for 100,000 acres by syndicates

composed of well-knmYn Svdney and Brisbane gentlemen, were not granted owing to the inter­ ference of the Government of Kew South Wales. Were it not for the fact that these applications. bad been refused, there is every reason for ass~ming that

the revenue of the Territory would be a good deal larger than it is, as probabh· many hundreds of

rubber trees n°'" beginning to mature would be yielding crops.

THIRTIETH DAY.

SATURDAY, I7TH NOVEMBER, 1906.

(Trm CoMMIS SION MET AT '' HILL WORTH'" PORT 1foRESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. l\IACKAY, C.B., :\LL.C. (Chairman) j W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., :\Ir. Justice C. E. Herbert,

:\Ir. E. Harris, SecretJ.ry to the Commission.

THE HO ORABLE ANTHONY MUSGRAVE, C.M.G., M.L.C.,

,ras further examined, as follows :-2506. Tlte Cltairman.-Beforc coming to Papua, the members of the Commission bad an opportunilv of perusing a despatch written on the 12th Sep·­ tember, last )·ear, by His Excellency the Adminis­

trator, to His Excellency the Governor-General. In th.1~ despatch, the Administrator speaks of the fact that he bad sought the advice of his Executive Council as to your sus,pension for disloyalty. He

120 A. Yu1gre.ve, 17th Nov., 1906. referred to you as hostile to his admini tration,

that he was ~ominced his admini tration conld not b .. carried on succes fulh s,o long as )OU remain cl

his chief t:x cutiYe officer. That , •our inclin.:ition ,ras to foster grie,·ances and impede the progre s of

wc'fk, and that you were so ready to impair his

Administration that your retir ment was. highl:'· de­ sirable in the best interests of the sen·ice. That

you consistently impeded His Excellency's efforts to secure prompt des.patch of public bu iness, and in on instance, carried your animosity so far that His Excellency had to peremptorily order you to obey

his i truct;ons, or, as an alternatiYe, to resign your appointment. The order that gave rise to this ,yas. written in )Iarch last, and referred to µerio

ancJtber despatch to the Governor-General, Hjs Ex­ cellency said. that his confidence had heen so s.haken

against me of impeding the public work. If I

'.lesired in ~ny way to impede. publi? ,rn~k. I t:lke 1t that _I would not, even smce (_ ,1ptam J J. ton

arrin:d ·n the countrv as Administrntor. han· ,rnrkecl OYertime, worked on Sundays and on p 1 lie holi ­ days, in order to keep up with the nece s?ry ,rn~k. l ha\'e simplv sacrificed myself to my official dut12s

in my Denartn-e t and without one ,rnrd of e;i­

cour.agemet;t or sy~pathy on any occasion from the Adm:nistrator, during two and a half years. z 512. Q. His Excellency further s.tates. '' Th:-- t in 0•1e instance he (\Ir. )fusgrave) carried his ani­ mositv to such a len()'th that I was compelled t

o~der· him to perempt~rily obey my instrucioos, or, as an altern.atiYe. to resign h1s. appcin m •nt. ·· H · s Excellency states· that the occasio11 was nn mcler written iri: l\f arch, 190 5, directing you to p :- y peri-

0tlical Yisits of inspection to the local D epartment:i.1 offices ?-A. I remember the occasion verv well, and I think that all the papers, excbang;d het\\·r r n

Captain Barton and myself ha Ye been r dore the Commission. There was not one p:uticle of ani­ mosit,, in my mind, but I was reluctant to nncler­ t:lke · what ~ould ha.Ye amounterl to l'e beco!11ing

responsible for the conduct of the Lan0s and Surn'y Dep.artment and the Treasury Offices. ancl I ex­ plained this, to Captafo Barton.

in vour sinceritv. that he felt justified in sending

for- his next senior executive officer, Mr. Ballan­ tine, to advise hjm in a difficult matter. Further­ more, His Excellency, in a despatch dated the 2qth Antr 1s,t, 1905, to the Governor-Gener.al, wrote that

'' The personal element enters into official we• k in this P ossession probably more than in any Colony in the world." Now, you are aware, that since the :urival of the Commissioners here, thev haYe been

makin~ a close inves.tigation into the P~blic Service r ecorrls, minutes of instruction, findings, and other papers, so as to gain accurate knowledge of the

JT'f'tho

ministrator to the Governor-Gener.al 2 ~07. Q. In, the despatch referred to, His Ex­ cellenny states that you are hostile to his administra­ tion ?-A. That is not the case. and never h:1.s been

the case. I have disngreed with tl1e A,lministr:i'or on certain T)Oints, as I think is full v disclosed bY n:1pers that have al read v been examined and nut h 0 fore th e Commission. · Never, tn mv knowlecfoE'.

have I in intention or 1w action been disloval to

C.,nt·ain Barton. - ·

2 ~08. Q. His Excellency further charge s YOU with fostering grievances ?-A.. That I deny posi­ tivel ' . I f elt a personal grievance, I may s.av. in

ri=>sn°rt to the official treatment dealt out to me hy Captain Barton . 2 509. Mr . H erbert.-Have you ever fostered grievances with others ?-A. Te\'er to my know­ ledge. I cannot recollect any ,instance to which I

h.aive lent any encouragement to the fostering of anv grievances or alleged grievances, in the Ser\'ice. I ·d not think. even inadvertently, I baYe been

guilt\· of anything of the sort. 2510. The Clwirman.-His Excellency further s'ates it has been your inclmation to impede the

p'"ogress of work ?-A. I do not I:1-esitate to chara"­ terize that as not only absolute] v incorrect, but also as a most gratuitous ~tatement. ·1 reques.te cl Captain Part on on one occasion to spenc1 a \Y '·ek, ai ~o:.1 t

ei ..;h t e~ n months .ago, in my Department, and see for himself the work that went on. He returned

s-me sort of noi1-committal reply, but ne\'er came near the Department. 2511. Q. Still bear,ing on this. particul.'.lr point, Hi .- Excellencv states that he has atiPm ptl'cl to

briner about a r'n.ore prompt despatch of public bu, i­ :ne. s. H e further states. "When m\' fforts in this. clir ction harn conrerned th cluties· of \fr. f,1s-

251.3. Q. Was that in a minute of the :::3t

1 1

1\Iarch last ?-A. Yes. 2_s14. T!te Clwirman.-Have you, in an\' sense. sougiht to impair Captain Barton's administration? -A. I have certainly not. I did not reph· to

Captain Barton's suggestion as, to resigning. I was almost afraid that I might say too much, it seeT('cl to me so verv unfair, .after my long public sen·ice in New Guine:i.. and the ass,istance I h1d alwan

rendered rind desired to render to Caµtain P.arton.· 2515. Q. On the matter on which I haYe been

examining- you, have you anything further to .add beyond referring us to the papers, as you have done? --A. Yes ; I think that after having heard the

d espatc.1 which \'OU have read, that I mav sa\' that it appears to me to be cons.istent with a ·proC('SS of what I believe is called "hecViing" in the ArmY, ::tnd which ic; to make a man so discontented with

his nosition, that he jg driven out of it. There are

numbers of minutes which poss.ihlv have not l)€{'n hPfore the Commission. which wonld , e rt:11nhT nroYe this. Besides the painful treatment which I " ·as

~11bjected to, I consider that Captain Barton m.arle three unjus.t efforts to ou t me from the Service.

The first was in the case of the Richmc·~ d ,barges against him, when he appeared to l,.e most anxim:s to involve me in them as well, although I wrote to t ell 11:m that I absoluteh· knew nothing :1.t .all al~out

the charges Mr. Richmond intended to make. I

may add that I have never been en particularlv

fripn

when, as I have pointed out, I rould not help J-.e­

lie\'ing that Captain Barton de<-ired to overweight m<" b,· aclding those heavv responsihilities to the w;rk I lrd alrf'adv to perform. The 1hird occasion was i1 r egard to the nf'nsion (1t1est'on. "hen he in­

sisted on the age limit heing 1113 de fifty-five , ears in<-te1d of sixtv. as is, I thin]·. most l1Sll3.1 in

r<"1sio11 rt<-. The f'onimonwra 1th Gon'rnmPnt re­ i0ctt'cl tlv~ surr~ec:;tion of allcrn·in g nensions to of­ /ic·nrs of the Territo:'.'Y. and that Pffort al<-o failen for the time bring. · I think T ha ·c nothing f'l. e

t-, :i< rl. pxcr t that I am perfeMly pren r d n 1 · , ..

i t~ 1, Comroission to rlf'<'ide o \ hich id a.·1 •

h st'li;, or animosity has 1-.-nn shm·n

gr.'.l · , he has consistently resented them ." \YJ,~t

reply have you to make to that ?- A. That also 1s

a most incorr ct statement. l wish to adcl a r -

mark fore we actuall depart frorn that c;harge

2~16. Tl1c Clzain;ian.~"{-0-1 have s~i

be before th ommi ion, whi h may go to prove

121 A. Musgran, 17th Nov., 1906.

th_at. you have not been treated fairly by the Ad­ ministrator. The Commission would be glad if ·ou could place before them all the minutes ?-A. That would IJe almost impos ible without going throuab

all the correspondence for nearly two years pa~t. In s.ome cases l sty led them " pin-prick" mfrrnte . In ot?ers I did not. even get a direct reply to some

qu~st10ns. One mmute I remember in particular which seemed to me unfair. The Italian war. hip ~ alabria was here in port. His Excellency was not

m port at the time, and it fell to me to do what l

could during her stay of four or five days to make it as interesting as possible for the officers. I was

asked, on calling on board on her arrival, bY the

English pjlot, lent, I think, by the A.U.S. -. Com­ pau:-,;, if horses could be provided for tbcm, and I said I. would see whati could be done. The horses :were to have left in two or three davs with loads

for Sogeri for the Commandant's patrol there. I gave orders that the horses should be retained, and that native carriers should be employed. I cannot imagine that had the Administrator himself been in

port he could nossiblv have done o~herwise, or gin~n anv other order. but later on l\1r. Bruce made some r:eference to the horses not having gone up, and His Excellency reflected on mv action in having_ u~ ed

them for, I think he called them, "a lot of foreign officers." I mav add finally that it has been the

universal practice in the case of the visits of our or any foreign men-of-war to allow a little latitude to the Government officers to assist in the entertain­ ment of the visitors, and that the horses have in ­

variably been used to assist, for shooting parties, riding parties, and so on. 2s17. Mr. Herbert. - In regard to your refer­

enc~ to His Excellenc,~ overweighting you in yOlir work, I notice that in a minute of yours, of 26th

Auanst 190- vou ,,.,.:·e as follows:-" I would also ~ ' J, ' remind Your Excell en:--v that, after a full , ears work ,Yith Your Exc0 llency , I can prove that on ahout four ·different o~casions for many weeks at a time I have been compelled to do a _ great nart of

the Treasurer's work, and to encounter in his ab­ sencE' yerv unnJeasant checks to the harmonious wnr]dna of mv office as Auditor arid Inspector." What ';,bsences were these YOU referred ~o ?- A.

Thev were on occasions when Mr. Ballantme was aw:t~T at the east end with His Excellency. 2 c; 1 8. O. In one vear ?- A. I do not remembcr

all the periods on whidl he :vas ~bsent. but he w~s awav on two or three occas10ns m one year. He

went awav to the east. · , .

2519. Q. Did rou. take the Treasurers work .m his absence ?-A. I did not take the whole <;>f it.

The Ac ountant managed the greater part of it. T had the si~nin rr of the cheaues, and of course 1

had to exchange minutes with the Accou~tant: 2520 . T!te Cltairman .. -Yol:f st ated earlier, m re­ pl \. to a ·riuestion of mme with regard to the pro­ duction of minutes, that to produce them ap _would

take a great deal of time. Is the Comm1ss10n tn

understand that you are preparie?- ~o rest yc:ur ca~e on the minutes which the <:omm1ss1on have 111 their possession ?-A. Yes, I thmk so. . 2 ') 2 1 • Q. Ha VP- you read the evidence given bv

His Honor Judge Jf urray ?-A. Yes." L ~ r;

22 . Q. Tuclo:e Murray states: T11e, s ate of

affairs between the Government S:c~·etary s D epart­ ment and the Treasury is not fnction, ~ut almost arfare " Ts that statement prachcallY cor- Oj)en w • . . . . . . rect ?-A... _ -0 ; I can hardly a?m1t that 1t 1s a state

of open warfare. l\~r. Ba_Hantme has shown a g~eat deal of opposition. m which h~ _has been supportf'd bv the Administrator- oppas1hon to me and my action- but I confess that I ~ooked upon th at as

being more per~onal than official.. I do not, ho_w ­ eyer, consider that I am on unfnendly terms with

l\ [r. Champion or other members of the D epart­ ment. -523. Q. Would iL be practically correct if ap­ plit·d to th e Trea -urer's relations to yourself ?-:1.

Yes, I think it would. 25:q. Q. Judge Jiurray also says: " Ir. Bal­

lantine' influence wa · specially no~iceable in Exe­ cutfre Council, where pr_ acticall y his voice is su­ preme" ?-A. That is an absolutely correct state­ ment. I say that as a member of the Council, and

I ha,·e seldom or eYer mi sed a meeting at Port

Jforesby. 2525. Q. Judge irurras also says: "Mr.

Symons a clerk in Jfr. Ballantine's office, came up to complain to [r. Jlusgrave about the way :Mr. Ballantine talked to him." Is that so ?-A: Yes. · H e complained of Mr. Ballantine's general tone and

attitude towards him, I understand. I know he very much objected to :'.\Ir. Ballantine's harsh manner. 2526. Q. In a private letter to His Excellenc \·, ) ou refer to two officers, who complained to vou

with regard to Mr. Ballantine. Who were they)-­ A. One was Mr. Symons. I do not at this moment recall who the other man was, but if I wrote it

there I am confident that it was true. 2527. Q. Tudge Murray further states: "Mr. Musgrave suffers from the hostility of the Admin­ istrator, who submi,ts him to a · series of petty

humiliations which must be almost maddening." Is that statement a correct one ?-A. Yes, I am sorry to sav that it is. I have expressed quite as much

to His Honor. 2528. Mr. Hcrbert.- Have you also expressed it to His Excellency ?-A. I wrote to him on one oc­ casion that I thought it very unfair that I should be subiected to these pin-prick minutes. I do not

think I kept a copy of that letter.

2529. Q. Is. that the letter?- [handing the witness a letter]- A. Yes. 25-10. Q. That is a letter which you wrote to the Administrator on the 9th December, r 904 ?- A.

Yes. 2531. Q. What was the occasion which led to your writing that letter ?-A. It was not very long after the Bunting case, in which I thought I was so verr unjustly treated. Although that letter is marked

"private," I have no objection to its publication. I also refer to certain minutes that I considered

petty and unfair from Hi Excellency.

HIS HO IOR JOHN HUBERT PLUNKETT MURRAY " ·as further examined , as fol10\YS :-2532. T!te C!tairman.-You have some furth~r eYiuence to off~r?-A.. Yes, in repl) to the eYi­ dence rri\'en b\" J1r. Ballantine. The first part of

JJr. B:llantine's evidence I ,rish to notice is where he stated that I wished to suggest an equally illegal alternative in the Bunting case. What really hap­ pen cl was this: He aid that if I would not with­

draw my opinion considerable inconwnie_nce would b-2 caused to recruiters and others. I said I could n withdraw my opinion, but I . aicl, " If you c:111 . how me any wa,· by: which we can avoid the in­ cnnYenience ~vithout infringing the Act, I wish you

wculd do so. " I said, "I have only been here a

~Lo t time, and do not know anything about the

l)ractiral working of these Acts, and yon ought to be able to suggest something whereby we can save 1 he incomenience to the 1 ecruiters . and still carry o'Jt the provisions of the Act. " H e could not sug­

gest amthing. I said, "Well, 1\fr. :\f usgrnve ought to knO\~ more ab ut it than both of us, as far as

the· practical working is concerned: T.;;t us go out and s e if h cart ugge t an)·thrn g. e came

J. H. P .. furrny, lith • O'I'., 1900, 122

~ut to :\Jr. :\Iu graY , but nothin.,. r ult cl from it

except an alterration between M O r . :.Iu gray and

Ballantine. 2533 . .1/r. llabcrt.-Did ,ou make an· · alterna-tin: :ugbe tion? !1. o. · ·

~534· Tlte Tl'itne.is.- \Yith regard to th Pearl ..,hell licenc:! fe . He tate · that '· thi. 'harge i

maliciou. , Le au. e there ,r:i: no que tion of di -

obeying His Honor's opinion.·, I do not charg

the Trea ury with di ob~) ing my opinion. I blame the Department for acting without a kin•Y for it. With regard to :\Ir. Champion'. e,·idence, ~ minute was sent do-.rn and recailed. It ,,as re ailed b -

cause, after it had been sent down, I found out

from :\Ir. Balchrin, ,rho ame in that morning to see me, that this canoe wa. commanded lw a South Sea Islander, which mak s it a boat. It did not

affect the question of a master's licence in any way. [2535.J To return to :\Jr. Rallantine's e,·iclence, there are two criticisms which he pa es on

me in my capacitv as Chief Judicial Officer, one with regard to the man :\forabucloa, who was

to h1ve been hanged. I knew absolutely nothing about any representation having been made to the man, until the head gaoler informed us all in Ex­ ecutive Council. I then immediat ly advised His Ex­ cellency not ta carry out the capital sentence. [ 2 536. l

The other point is in regard to the men who were sentencecl to death, and whose sentencrs were com­ muted to one year's imprisonment, and who, through carelessness, were allowed to ser\'e a longe r time.

I wish to point out that it is no part of my clut y

to send a notioe of commutation to the gaoler, but I admit that if I had more carefully examined

the gaol returns. I should undoubtedly have

noticed that these men had b en lying under sen­ tence of death for a very Jong time, and should

have seen conseriuently that some mistake had been made, either by the gaoler or lw the Clerk to the

Executive, whose duty it is to fonrnrcl the notices of commutation in cases wh re the meeting of the Executive at which the sentence is commuted is held out of Port Moresby.

2537. llfr. Herbert.-Were thee men all this time in gaol under sentence of death ?- A. Yes. 2538. Q. Who was the Sheriff at this period?­ A. There was not one.

2 539. Q. ls not Mr. Symons a Sheriff ?- A. I

have not heard that he hole.ls that office. 2540. Q. Ha.cl there been a Sheriff at this time it should ha.ve been his clut \' to chec1· tho e r~­

turns ?-r1. Yes, certaini \'. 254r. (}. Is it any part of the Chief Judicial

Officer's duty to examine the return of prisoners? -A. Ko, I think not. I da go through th re­

turns and correct mistakes ,rhich I find committed, but in this case it escaped my notice. 2542. Tlte Witness.-With rega5cl to :\Ir. Bal­ lantine's remarks in ans,rer to an alleged statement

of mine that there were no store hooks at Tamata, I may point out that my remarfa refer to Darn,

and not to nlr. Higginson. 2543. With regard to Mr. Bruce's evidence,

it was not at the end of 1905, but of 1904, "·hen we came down from . Ioribaiaa. I said absolutely

nothing that could poss,ibly be c1is!orted into a....,._re­ flection upon or expression of d1slike for His Ex­ cellenc\'. I had onlv been in the country three

months, and had never seen Captain Barfon or

:\Ir. Bruce-or, in fact, any other person in the

country before in mY life, and I distinctly state

that it is absolutelv impos ible that my conversa­ tion should ha,·e left anv impression of either dis­ icrnltv or dislike · to Captain Barto:1 upon the mind of anybody. With regard to Jr. Ballantine, I

have absolutelv no recollection of saying anything :-.bout him. As to the meeting when Dr. Craigen

took the chair if it all ged that I supposed ,His

Ex ellenc, to 'haYe had anything to do with it, I

r 111 onh· - ;n· that uch an idea neYer uggested

i - ,Jf to· me ·in the wilde t nightmare oI my in-:agi­ nation. If the com·ersation about the bet and

about the ugge tion that' I was likely to be ap­

pointed Administrator are inte:-ided to com·~y the impre .. ion that I haYe ever, b,· act or deed, directly o r indirecth eith r in th T e rritorv or else,rhere,

done an) thf1~g in any way to atte~pt to place. my­ . elf in a p ition of being considered a candidate

for the position as Administrator, I can only say

that there is not the slightest truth in it. I do

not know anv stronger way of expressing myself than this. If I did I would use it.

2 544. The first point I wish to ·deal ,rith in _His

Excellenc,·'s evidence is the conversation with His Excellenc~· before we went down to Samarai. I most mphaticall y state that I told him distinct] y

that I would} support measu'res accordi!n1g as I thought they were for the benefit of the community, and not accordin~ as they were, or \Yere not, pro­ posed by the Government. I remember a conversa­ tion I had with :\Ir. Musgrave immediately after­ wards, in which I told him that I did not see how

I could possibly te expected to -rote for a measure that I did not approve of, even if I were a Go­

vernm nt officer . He informed me of a case of an Attorney-General in Jamaica ,vho ,ras dismissed for opposing la 'Gon~'t'nment measure. I said­ " Well, thev can d'ismiss me if thev like. but I

shall certainly vote according as I think it is desir­ able." 2545. The next ,point I propose dealing -with is the clause I referred to about deserters in the

Native Labour Ordinance. I said it took from

eighteen months to two years to get it approved, and it appears apparently in a draft measure,

date September, 190.5. That would be ten or

eleven months after I started on th2 Bill, instead of eighteen, .as I said; but it does not at all foilow because it appeared in the draft Bill that it was

therefore approved, and my recollection certainlv is that it was not approved until later than that. J

2546. With regard to some language which I am supposed to luve used about the Germans at Sa­ marai, ,vhat I did sav w.a1s to this effect : " Why

should we assume that the gold is in German ter­ riton· ? There is every reason to suppose that it

is in our own territory. \Vhy should we, then,

stand by, and perhaps Jet the Germans get gold

,rhich really b 0 longs to us?" His Excellency

then said "If there was a so·;ereign h -ing on th~

table, and there ,vas some doubt as to its beinrr

yours, would you put it in your pocket?" I said~ " . · o; but I cannot see that there is a1w similitude

between the two cases." This was in -replr to a

suggestion h\· His Ex Jl ency that ''"e ·should not deal ,Yith the Waria fiel

2547. In my Yidenoe, I a\' that this practi('e

of going up the Waria i a practice that has obtained. "\I,· authority for that wa a ·tatement lw the

Resident :\ f agistrate of the X orthern Divi ion in the Execufo·e Council at Samarai, which was ac­ cepted both h,· th Administrator and my elf and other present a repre enting the actual state of

affairs . 2548. With rei;.~ard to tb~ :Keuru ca·"', ithe11e seems to be ,ome confu. ion. I mentioned that the man had a hat on and, I think, also a waistcoat.

and that is how we ame to kno\\· that he had been ,rnrking on the ::\Iambare; but I was not dealing with the ciuestion of cloth . for natiYes, nor was it because he had clothe. on that Hi· Exe llency re-

123 ,T . H. P. Murra.'Y,,

17th Nov., 1906.

fused to haYe anything to do with him. It was

because he had been working on the l\Iambare. [ 25 49.J As to the Opau case, the facts are that His .8xce ll ency was going to try the adultery case him­ se lf, to aYoid de]ay. H e asked me ilf he could do

so leg a 11 )'. T sail he could not do it legally j but

that, rat her than keep the thing hanging up for

months, I thought he better deal with it, and it

was after it had turne d out that th:ls man had been working at t:he mines on the Mambare that he spoke to him about running kava-kava about the countrv, and refu~ed to go on with the case. -

2550. Mr. H erb ert. - Was the man not referred to the Assisbnt Resid€11t ~fogisfrate who was to be statio ned shortl v in ithie :localitv ?- A. I am

r1ui te prepared to beiieve that he was~

255r. Tl1e Witness. - The next statement js one by His Excellency, something to this effect- that I should be satisfi ed w:itb the svstem under which · a. nati,·e ·was ta.k en to work for ~ix months without

pay, and carried from J oke a to the Mam bare to be signed on, witho'Jt an interpre ter, to do " ·ork 500 miles from h:s home. Of course, I approve of ab­ solutely nothing of the sort. l\ f y po-i~t in regard

to the native labour legislation ha ~ bee n that, so long as you interpose a Magistra.te bet,yeen the laboure r and the employer, the uetai·ls may be

worked out in the manner which :is most convenient.

2552. With regard to a letter which His Excel­ Jencv read from Mr. Ballantine to himself about Mr. ·Russell , and the amount to be pa~d for his chil­ dren, for the purpose of showing that there was no ill-feeling between the two on account of the Mekeo business, I would point out that that letter was

writte

Mekeo eighteen months before that. I am informed by Mr. Russell, and believe, that this. letter was written when Mr. RusseU was going to Australia, in August, 1905, some eighteen months after he

had left Mekeo.

2553. With regard to His Excellency's state­ ment, he says: " It is scarcely likel y that I should ask Mr. Murray if I could suspend 1 C. B. Higgin­ sorn." I never stated th. ait he had asked me if he

could suspend C. B. Higginson. I refer the Com· mission to the papers in the matter.

2554. With regard to what happened in con­ nexion with the Liquor Bill, I certainly did

think that the increase in the licence~ f ee was

justified, and more than justified by the fact

that the liquor trade had now become in

the nature of a monopoly, since the prohi­

bition of additional licences and I have no doubt that I said so. Then we went down to Samarai1.

At Samarai the argument was raised about the

incre ase of licence-fees., and the point I have just put forward was urged in defence of the increase _ ; but it was argued agaitnst that, that, as things stand at present. a licenoe to sell liquor does not bring

in much monev in most places, because the poµu-1 ation is so ,;er y scanty. Then they procee ded to ar gu<:>. " It is true, " they sa:id , " that in a few

years' time, if population increases, these licences will be extremely valuable, but at present it is not so. If the populatibn ever does become numerous, we must haYe a new Liquor Act al together, not the

present make-shift arrangement ,,·e are workin g under. Let us therefore post pone 1 be increase of the licence-fee until ,re deal with the whole matter ,

whi,h, if the popul at:on increases, must inevitabl ,. be in a few years. " ·

2555. Tilz e Clzairman.-Was the new fee of £r 5 an increase on the existin g f ee ?- A. 'es ; an

increase of £5.

2556. Tlze TVitness.- As regards the conversa­ tions which I have detailed, they were not, as

sugges ted, taken down by me at the time, and they were not mere casual remarks that pass bet\Yeen familiar friends. }'or instance, the conversation. about the marriage of ofii cers originated in a

quesjion broached by His Excellency, of the fitn ess of a certain married officer for promotion. I was ne ,·e~ on intimate terms with His Excellency. Our re lat10ns were never such that we exchange d con~

fid ences on any subject. The conversations re­ f ~rred to. di? not take place while I was enjoying h1s hosp1tahty. They took place while I, as a.n officer on duty, was travelling on the M errie Enf!.­ land, at the expense , not of His Excellency, but of

th e Government. I am chargEd with falsehood, malice, and disloy alty. I repudiate the charges. I have done my duty loyally throughout, but when ibe Commission arrived, appointed, not at my re­ q_u est, but at that of His Exce llency , I had to

cho:::>se betwee n my duty to him and my duty to the Commom\ ealth, and I unhesitating] y choose my cluty to the Commonwealt h as paramount. I have not been actuated by malice I have all to lose

and nothing to gain by the course I have chosen, and the on lv off ence of anv sort or kind that can

be alleged a'ga i ns t me is th; t I haY e given evidence before the Commission, and I have been denounced traduced, and vilified, because I am one of

the few who have had the courage to do

their duty and to come forward and speak the truth.

(THE ·COMMISSION MET AT "HILLWORTH " PORT MORESBY.) '

JAMES KINMOND

was sworn and examined, as follows:-2557. The Cltairman.- What is rnur name ?-A. J runes Kinmond. I am. an Inspector -in charge of the Commonwealth Audit Office in Queensland.

2558. Q. What is your offici al- duty in Papua?­ A.. I am making an investigation of Government accounts. 2559. Q. Have you examined any of the Public Office accountsi ?- A. Yes, I have examined the Customs, P ost Office, Registrar of Patents, Regis­ trar of Joint Stock 1 Compa.nies, and Registrar of Births, Marriages, and D eaths.

2560. Q. In what state have yo u found tfie Cus­ toms accounts ?-A. Unsatisfactory, chiefl y through the inexperi enoc of Customs work of the officers who have been charged with the duties to be per formed.

The entries are not l)assed in the orthodox wav ob­ served ;n Custom houses in Australia. The ·p1~sent method here is inefficient. Under t:h e present me­ thods it would be possible for coI11sign ees to receive into the Territory goods which had not paid duty. Tthe tariff is a very short one, but there is no inter­ pretation for the guidance of officers. Too much

latitude is left to the officers as to the headings un-. der which goods are a.dmitted 'to the T erritorv. The present tariff should he revised. -

2561. Q. In what state have you found the Post Office accounts1 ?- A. A proper check has not been kept over the Divisional Postmaster accounts. There was no ledger to show the :indebtedness to the head offi ce. I had to write up a bcok in order to ascer­

ta in tliJe liabilities to the head offi ce. Owing to t he chaotic manner in which son:.e of the Treasury books have been kept, I have not been able to trace, yet, some of the remittances.

2 562. Q. Are things any better with regard to

the Registrar of Patents accounts ?-A. There have

Jame Kinmon&, litk NoT., 1906.

124

been only four or five patents is ued, and the Regis­ trar has accounted for the fees. 2563. Q. Ha\' you a.nY remarks to make on th Registrar of Joint tock 'omp::i.nies account ?­ A. Yes. The regi ter which hould contain a com­

plete list of all documents filed under the om­

panies Act, wa not complete, and some fees•which should have been paid and periodical returns re­ quired, had not. been d;manded. 2 564. Q. Who is the holder of the various offices

you have been dealing ,Yitlh ?-A. The present Treasurer holds all those po itions. 2565. Q. Have you been into the Treasury ac­ counts poper?-A. Yes.

2566. Q. What accounts have ,ou examined?­ A. I ha Ye not yet completed any accounts, but so far I have traced up receipts into the general cash book from 1888.

2567. Q. As far as you have gone, what is your general opinion of tlhe Treasurv accounts ?-A. I should say, on the wbole, that · the books are not

well or clearly kept, and great difficulty 1s

experienced in tracing various items owing

to the absence of proper references between

documents and the cash book. In the course

of the examination it was necessary to re­

fer to the Suspense Account Cash Book, which

was open from February, 1892. The account

throughout has not been cleri.r]y kept. There has never been any reconciliation between the bank cash book and the bank pa s book, and the account generally is incomplete. I \have spent considerable

time in tracing up moneys payable for land sales. A proper system · has not been adopted between the Treasury and the Lands. Office with regard to these.

The Treasury books a.re not kept in a way 1,,o

readil v afford the information re(]uired to make postings in the Lands Office books. The transcr"ipts have been kept in a very. disorderly state and with­ out anv svstem wihatever, I mean transcripts of the out-statio1; cash books.

2568. Q. Will you read this report by Mr. Cham­ pion, Accountant in tbe Treasury, on the British r ew Guinea Suspense Account, dated the 16th

Febnmry, 1906 ?-A. Yes, I have read it. 2569. Q. Do you consider that report is a fair

comment on the state of the Suspense Account?­ A. Yes, certainly I do. I would add to that that

the fact of one item tihere amounting in the aggre­ gate to £714 odd, found in the safe and entered in the cash book on different dates, and no fur­

ther action taken to ascertain and show "·hat these different amounts consisted of, shows a lack of

supervision. 2570. Q. Is Mr. Champion in anv way respon-sible for this state of things ?-A. _ -o. 1Ir. Cham­ pion was not •in the Treasury at the time, and

since he has. been he has made a creditable effort to unraYe1 the accounts. 2571. Q. an you giYe us any information in

regard. to the stores ac ount ? - 1. Yes. There has

been Yen little check oYer the clistrihution of stores by the Resident ~I agi. tratcs aft r the goocls bad

ldt the Gowrnment Stor 'S. Returns :-ire periodi­ ca1lv sent bv the officers referrell to, but the\· are va1~eles.. The whole of the stock books exa~1inecl by me I founcl kept in a ven· uns1.ti facton· man­

ner. The sto~k at Port )Irnesh,· GoYernment Stores is ya]uccl at about ..{.6,ooo at •.J~e prese'1t time. A proper stork book, however, ha. not heen kel)t, o th::1t at any sto:::ktakin~ it co'Jl

the stork on hand were correct or otherwise. I

think th to k is in fairly good rcJer.

THIRTY-FIR T DAY.

('lirn Co:\DII sro.· :\IET AT "H1LLWOnTn," PoRT iJoRESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable ,J. A. IL ~f.~CKA Y, c.n., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-OkeJen, 1'>q., I.S.O., 1Ir. Justice C'. E. Herbert. Mr. E. Iforris, Secretary to the Commission.

JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL

was further examined, as follows:-2 5 72. LHr. Okedrn.-Do yon wi:,;11 to aive fort her eYidence in regard to deed 165 ?-A. Ye; 2 573· Q. Do yo1~ wish to reiten1te or qualif.,· yonr

siatemr11t that tins deed was tlestrnycd by l\1r.

Drummond ?-.A. Not this deecl, but :L deed. 2 574· Q. \Ybat 0vidence have you to prove that a,

deetl was destroyccl ?-A. I Jiaye 110 evidence so for fnrther thnu ·what I li:nc gi ,·en. 257,5· Q. \Yiil yon plensc ~tate io the Commission what 1s yonr ouject in coming to them to-day ?-A.

To show the reason why I did not a::-ccrtiLin correctly the nur1ber of the deed ,vhicl1 I believe to be

do :royed. D 'G · No. 165 should lrn,,·e been with

papers 3 5 I, because D/G 3 5 I wns snb~tituteil for deed'??' which l:n

, 257?· 11lr. llerbnt.--Are yon sure of that1-A. 1 hat is the result of the investigations Mr. Ricli-rnoml h:1s made. Z 577· Q. Then Mr. Ricbmond was enti1 ely corrcC't :when ~10 11otccl on deed 165 tlt:tt '' Deecl ·No. 5 I

1sstie1l in place of this deed" ?-A. Yes. 3

257~ .. Q. In the office to-clny what deed represents the ongma] deed No. 17 ?-A. 469. 2 579; Q .. Wa~ deed Ko. f 7 repeated hy clco

-A. 1' cs, 10 mistake. :,

2580. ({ In looking np the suhjcc-t then nR to

whether it wns necossnry to cancel deed l\ o. 17

should deecl 165 liave been referrc.l to ?-A ?\ '

necPssarilv. · · .i. ot

2581. Q. vVas there nothing in the papers of deell 17 to t"ho.w on t~c 5th or 7th of l\I:l.y lar,;t year that 165 was 1r,;sned m pln.ee of 17 whether ,,·ro I

. l 1 ? A 'I' ' ng y or n~ 1t y. - . he papen; show a minute bv M, Richmond, elated 19th JulY 1904 givina f 1 ]l ~ t.

f b

. . • , , 0 1 1easons

or sn st1tut10g that deed. 2 582. Q. Before cancelling deed 17 woulJ it be nece sary and proper to refer to the imi)crs of 1 1

17?-A. Yes. tee(

2583. Q. ~o

deed 165 existed on the ~th May la. t , , ? A yes. , < 3 em . - . -A258y4. Q. And furthermore tlint it wa, cancelled? . e .

2 58 5. 'l'lte C/,airmau.--Y 011 , till maintain that

Mr. Drnmmond tore np n deed in your ?

-A. Ye. . · pr' ence.

2586. Q. Have yon an r evidence to put b f .

l C

. . e 010

t 1~ ommt s1011 t? prove that contention r-.A.. N 0 _ thrng further. "e w re l>v onrReh·e ·. 2587. Jfr. Herbert.-Do· yon mean that what he dcstroye•l had th appear:rnce of a deed., or that it

al> olntely ,va. , a elono-in,.,. to th L•tiiJ .J

'r· 1 0 ~· '"' < an;.i it e' h1ce ?-A. I co11ltl :--ce that it onta1 · l l l

. , • no< a

:;c•a nn( signature irom ·°'d1ere I wa..; ittitw t l

11 I

~ .-. ::t 110

ta) c. t wa a complete eked.

258 . Q. A searl'h in the Ai.ec ~houl,l t1i:-elll:-C

wl1c1her a Ll1c , l I clon~ing to the 01licP-tl1:1t i:",

wl1cthcr ou the H <· gi:-t( ·r, or whether a withdrn\\'n or c,u1t·clle .i dee d, had l>cca dc::-iroyed, wc,u:l it 11ot ?­ .,. Yet-.

JOHN RIOJUIOND

was further t·xarnincd, n::; follow-;:-2589. J/r. J],,'Jh eit.-\\"ill YCi11 .Pim 11s t-liorth' a h :story lending to :be i:-:~11c ot'il c edRc\7, 165,351, ·:111d 469. :111d to 1he ea11ccllntio11 of any otiin::; ?-J. Deed

17 was isl-11cd f'or 1101t ion !9· Deed 165 was issuetl for the ~a.me portion 19, lrnt sli u uld ha\·e l.Jecn ii:;suetl for portion zc. Dee d 165 was ncalled bcc:111se it was is:-H,,d for por1ion 19, whieh wn,.; nlr(':U1)' represented

l>y deed 1 7. Deed l\ o 3 5 1 ,Ya.s issned for porl ion 20,

which sho11l

469 wus is::-nod in plaC'e of tkcd 1 7, on tbe 6th or

7111 Mny, 1906.

Tl 1nrr r-SFCOND D.A Y.

\\ED ... ~ESDAY, 21ST ~0\-"Ei\JBER, 1906.

( T11 E Co:u:-.II 1 TEE ?1rnT .A·i· ·1 uE Cou1'ClL CuAM1rn1:, l>o1n .JJ O HESBY.)

Present:

Colunel the Horiorn ldc J. A. IC. MACKAY, C. B.,

}I L.C . (Chai11.n:111); vY. K Pmn-Okcden, El:lq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice· C. E. Herbert:

1Ir. E. 1Ia1 ris, Sccre1:iry to the C0mmi;:;siou.

lll~ EXCELLEXCY C ,\PT,\ lN 1!'1L\~CIS lUClC\IA~ BARTO:'\, C. ~f.U:,

was fnrLl1or examinctl, as follo ·., s :-z ·90. 1Vitness.-~ J11 my eYitlC'ucc gi,c11 tlic otl1er ) · ' I . I h . da,· trayor::;mg Mr. ::\1rn rays ~tatement ~lllt t r:t rn re;,·nrd to the man at Opttn I made a poi Lt of not

calling 11po11 the Private Sec~·e 1a:·?', &c., but tlia~ I was prepare,! to call 11pon 1nm 1f the Comm s::;wn desired. The Commi~sioner;-; :2;nYe me to nnder::;tnncl afler that tliat it ·was not 'vhetl1er tbcy desired or not,

bnt that it rcstt>d entirely with me. :i\Ir . ,Jewell is

here 11ow, an<1 wa!3 my Private Secretary nt Ilic 1ime, and I de::;irc liim to state ·what actually occ·urred. 2 591. :/..'lie Chairma,n.-~Vith rrgiml to tl:i~t point the Commis~ion

z 592. Tl, e Witness.-Before

to me so trivifll and \'ague that it

think the fact t.hut I ditl not answer it might be mi ' ­ eo11- trued. [2593.J On page II of Mr. Murray's

e,idencc Ile state~. when speakino- of Mr. Balin.utin-c, "To pnt the matter briefly he i · really the Governor. All s rt A of theories ha \'C been a :l vanectl to a.cco11 · t for the influence he wirlds. lrnt I tlo not be lieve in

anv ot tlie111, antl ~o I tlo not mention them, lint the r ;11lt is that he indnlo-e.· in what :\Jr. :M11:"grn.vc in n ruinntc J.cocribcs as an iu ane assumption of authority

Oaptain F. R. Bartotl, 21st Nov., 1906.

antl attempt: to rule all the Department:." I now t.:-,;k 1'Ir. )l111Tnv to sta10 what nrc tho th eories which he d o l!::; not hi;n:-,; elt' belic..- e, hut yet arc apparently worth !ii: while t u sav that the y existed . .F1utliermorc, I

a:--1 him to state tlic nam1·s of the nutliors of the

t!icori cs, aud i~· lit> ~nys lie do ·~ 11ot k110,y who they w ere, 1hon I ask hi111 "to ~ay \\'lio l1is inform:\nt was. [25~n] The first <]_llCStio,; p11t to Mr. Mn~gr:we whe n li e was gi,·iug e vidt'11cc on the 17th wns

whr thcr he i:-; hostile to rnv atl111inistrntion. Tiin.t hi::; derneanom wa · hrstilc to ,;1_,· atl111i11·strntion through­ out the R climo11d nifoir I rnnintaiu i::; 0Lvio11:-:. ln 1he v ery IH ginuin g lie -inforn ;cd 1lrnt I wr::: in the

positio11 of tlcfou

in i\lr. M11~grnye's po::;itit ,n 111 the sen-it·e to fostC'.' n grien1.nce by ::i, '' shrug of the slw11 ldcrs '' as by actual Yerbal e11c o11rngeme11 t. It lrns been a snr rep ti tio11 s, lrnrrowing I-ind of antagoni:-,;m. He mentions, for instance, the ca::;e of two officers wl.o cornplai1:cll to

him with rcgarrl to Mr. lhllantine. Hefcreuce to this is made i11 the evidence ~i,·en l,y him. .Now it \Vill be see11, I think, fron1 Iii."' ietter ("\~hiC'lt i::; the only time 110 l1ns mentioned th·::; matter to mo) thnt 1 liese officers

wore told b_v Mr. Mu~grnve, as be nllcgcs, that they ongbt to bring their complaints to my notice, hut that they do not do so for the r0.iso11, they stated­ ns 1\-Ir . .:\lm:gnl\· o again nlleges-that I wns a friencl of ML Ballnn·ine. Jf the offil'crs really felt

aggrie,·ed, why did not Mr 1111 .·grarn at the time i11q11ire into tl1ern, whieh was his dnty as Go\·ornment Secretary to do; and t li~n if he found that they were well founded, wliy did not lie inform me about them? No; be preferred to let those ollicers go away nnder tho impression . if I read his Jetter :iriglit, that they were 11ot. likely to obtain j 11stice if they came to me. He disliked me, and he disliked Mr. Ballantine; aud h e 11.;ed tliis opportunity t o foste r a grievauce.

!_259; .] A s to Mr. :\lni'grnve's incliuntion to impede work, drn.t i,.-, I maintai11, mnde C:vident. br his resent­ m ont to my inslrnction!- t o liim reganling.the pcriodi­ cnl ini'pectin11 of Dcpt:rtrnents :it Port Moret,by. The Co111missit111ers hnYe thoc-le papers Tl1ose iustructious were not g:i\'rn witlwut gootl rea::;on. Mr. Mus;::niye's reply wns of such nn ins11 bcrdiuate and defiant natnre

that I felt no option but .to call upon l1im to obey my order::; or resign. He made i:o replr nt tbe t.ime

wliicn I construet.i as a surrellder on liis pnrt, but lie has not obryed the in~tructious coutaincil in my

minnte. .Mr. Musgrnve states in his evidence that there was no n11imosity in his mind in this m a. tier, but tbc tone of J1i::; minute, I submit, sho,vs that

there was more tbnn animosity; it discloses adual an tagoni::;m. [ z 596. J Mr ... Musgrave rnerns at times to have an idea, that he is nothing more th :1n t he

Head of an ordinary Depnrtmcut. Ile does not

apparently rrnlize that he is the Administrator's Chief Executive Officer. I cnn recall v ery few

instances in which he has rendered me any a ssi,nance in 1hi,- eapncity as CL ief ExecutiYe Officer. .A lmost _ invariably his minntes to me when forwa.rdi ng papers are "For Y. E's. cousiderntion," or "Fo r Y. E's.

consideration accordingly ." ·when they have been longer it has as often as not. l.Jeen for the purpos e of venting his spleen on me or some officer.· [ z 597.J If the Commissioners will ref er to the papers I now

prolluce they ·will see tbat before I became A

Ballantine an injury, ancl that lie ma(le tbat a ttempt while he was Deputy A11ministrator. Jt will be seeu in wl1at light the then Admini,;trator r cg :ml e

these. · Iu :i\larcb, 1903, tl1c Treasurer, :i\Ir. Ballautine, was ::;ent to Samarai l.Jy :\--lr. l\1usgrave, who wa::; then

Oaptain F. R. Ba.rtorl, 21st Nov., 1900.

126

Deputy Adrnini trator, on onw ·ollicia1 mnltct·. He wa:-: i11 ·trncted, I lielic,·C', to in. pc<:t 1!10 'usio111s Office then°. \\'hilc he "·a- :l\\'aY :Mr. )Iu~gr:t\'C made a thoron 0

was informed tbat :Mr. i\lu-grnve had found alleged large deficiencies of l':)to:·e,.: or· l':)Ornething to that effect, pointing to tlie fact that there would lie n largo

defieienn· in the roYcnnc at the enu of t liar. Year.

Mr. :i\fo .. gr:1vc propnrcu a 1011g ::;tato11 1ent wliicl1 is an cnclosnro to De:-;putch ~o. l7 of 4th !-.1:.y, !903. Mr. Ballantine went into ~lie rna.tter.· a.ml sent, in a memo. whieh Mr. l\f usgrn ,·e forwarded as enclosure

to Despateh Ko. 19 of 5tl1 May, 1903. Doth these despatelic · wero take it tu Cook town Liy tho Peuluh -..d1id1 I belie,·e w:1s so11 t, for t lmt purpose. :\Ir.

MusgrnYe in his des pat.eh bla111ed 1 lie 1 hen Ad minis· • Ira.tor :ind Mr. Ilallnntinc for the conditio11 of :dfo.irs. Copies of those despatches and their 011elost1rcs arc filed in the Govcrn111ont Secretary'::; Deparlmcr1t. In

::-;ir George Le Ilunte'::; ])cspateli forwarding the estimates for 1903-+, No. 23A of 1903, in pn.rng1aplt 9 lre states tliat he is gln.d to fin

Mr. l\Iusgmvo's expected dcfici t of' £5,000 comi11g to pass, the Gornrnmcnt was likely t.o have a crcc.lit balance at the <'nu of Jnne. I woul

Commissiu11ers would refer 1 o Despatd1cs No. 2 3c of 19th June, 1903i and Mr. 1Insgra,·e's Despatch of 5th May, 1903; to Dmqiateli No. 38 of 1903; to

Despatch No. 48 of 1903; aml De-pntehes lf os. 17 and 19 of 1903. 2597. M1·. Herbert.-Whoro arc they to lie foun

Despatches Nos. 17 and 19 of 1903, I bclie,·e, arc

filod int.lie Government Secretary's Department ..

259g, Q. In rcspeet to what particulnr mat.ter

alleged against Mr. M11sgrave do thl's~ despat.clios de:il ?-A. I want Lo show tl1at the n11imo-;ity t.bat Mr. M usgrnve says ho has s11fforod at Mr. Ballantine's hands began before my ::ulmi11i;:;tration, and l cannot say myself when it 11ogau, lrnt Mr. Mt1:-grnve, when

Deputy Administrator, reft.ncd iu the dc::;pntches l have 11arned to matter..,; which were refuted wlH'D Mr. Ballantine returned from learn. 2599. The Witness.-My work n.nd responsibility have been even greater than if l had no Government

Secretary, l>ccause of Mr. Musgrn,Ye':5 incompetence or his obstrnctiveness-it is difficult to kno1V which to call it. I produce th papus No. 730/u5 as an

instance of the extra trouble and extra responsibility thrown upon me through this obstructiYeuess or in­ competence on Mr. Musgrave's part. l\fr. Musgrave states I tried to involve him in the Richmonu charges against me. Can anything be more absurd. Mr.

Mnsgrarn preferred uot to be my Chief Execnti vo Officer on that occasion. It snitccl hi::; purposes

better to throw in his lot with the Richmond party. He would have liked to be loyn.l to me a!, well as to them if possible, but he was in the position-so un­ fortunate to a man of his character-of l1twing to m::i.ke a choice ouco :ind for all, tL choice from w hicl1 he coulL1 not go back. I pass over the next charge

because I have already dealt vvith tho matter alluded to. [2600.J Tl1e tbinl drnrge is t~at tlio age limit

in the Pension scheme proposed wns specially uirccted at him, This i" not so, aud it only goes to show

how ready Mr. JVfusgrave is to assume that I allowed what he considers to be my personal inclinations to influence my actions. Tho 5 5 years age limit was carried by a. m ajority in Council, and I stated my

reasons for s11pportiug it in Despatch No. 43, of' 30th .April, 1906. If there wa:i no officer in the service

of over 4-0 year of age to Llay, I should . Lill be ot

the ·ame opinion with rc•ganl t.o tlie 5 5 year ago

limit. [z6or.J I11 the matter of the Ca/au1·ia,

tho Italian "·,1r:hip, I -·liouid like tho papers to be

lai

o I .

Mr. 11m,graYe bas an idea. that 1ho acme of 10sp1-tality to any guest visitin~ Port :i\lorosby is to put a Government horse at his disporn! \\'ith a ,•iew to

riding out to some place for a pic11ie. I liaYe heard that on tile occas1on in question there was by no

rueaus a great keenness shown to take au vantage of the i1nitation to ride ont anywbere, but that the

guo. ts were so irnporLnned with the preseuce of the sa.udlecl horses t.hat they had t,o ~o for politeness snkc. l\1ea.uwliile the Comm:indant who was a.way on im­ portant patrol work in tho interior, hnd to s11ffl'r cou­ seqnent inconvenience. I was absent from Port

Moresby at the time so caunot speak wit.Ii certainty in the matter of the horses being thrust upou tho

Italian officers, bnt I should like the Commissione1s to refer to tho papers. [ 2602.J I ask that Mr.

Champion be called and asked wbat Treasurer's work was clone by Mr. Musgrave in the Treasurer's absence. Mr. Musgrave states that I have supported Mr. Bal­ lantine in opposition to himself. WheneYer I have

don8 so, I have done it regardless of persons. But

it is all on record. Let Mr. MusgraYe, if he can, pre­ duce papers that I !in.Ye unfairly opposed him.

[ 260 3. I I ·wish to place before t lie Commissioners copy of a letter which 1 wrote to Mr. Musgrave on the 17th November, 1905, on tl1e occasion of my final co11fidential minute concerning the Treasurer's charges againF

to state his views ti po11 any matter that is JaiJ before Excc11tivo Council. I encournge them to do so. Mr. Ballant.i1;e has Jone no more than that. If after dis­ cus:-ion it. is donbtfnl which way the majority of

Connci\ will go, I iuvariab]e put the matter to tho

vote. I ask that the Clerk of the Council be called

:rnd questioned by the Commissioners. [2605.J It. is said by Mr. Murray, and Mr. Musgrave supports tho statement, that I have submitted Mr. Musgrave to a series of humiliations which must be almost mndden­ ing. I have never reprimanded Mr. Musgrave with­ out good reason. It is for him to show otherwise. I desire to invite tbe attention of the Commissioners to tile great difficulties l ba,·e experienced during the la.st two years in administering the affairs of this

Territory, simply owing to the ronk disloyalty and nns~rnpulons charact or of certain Governmeu t officers including the two otficers next to me in seniorit/ But thanks to having kept my health, and I hanks yet

mor~ to all those loyal straightforward officers who i1ave supported me unwaveringly, I have been enabled not only to keep things together, but to make con­ siderable progress iu a

Territory. 2606. Tl,e Chairrnan.-Your Excellency states that in [\ despatch t0 Hi· Excellency the Governor­ General of the 28th August, 1905, that Your Ex­

cellency formed an opinion from Mr. :i\lnsgrnve's actions on the 2clh rind 21 t of A11gu t that he wa

di loyal. Did it ne-\'e!· occm to Your Excellency

that Mr. :Musgrave'' action on tho e uates ,rn con­ sistent with the action of a man who himself

believed the words '' For Ex. o. ' clic.l not appear

on the original minute of the 28th April, 1905 but who wished to arrange what n.ppearod to liim to be a deplorable incident without publicity, and iu a

manner which appeared to bim to be in the best

127 C,apta.ln F. it. !farton;

2ht Nov., 1906.

intorcsls of Your E:Xeeile11cy ?-A. 1iy impl'cssion w:i::;

2607 . (J. Dit·lioq.: tlrn t h o

:idoptcd I liat Yiew i11 hi :; mi1111 re:; :111tl Je tter:-:, ln1t it wa::; 11ot one I l.olie,·cd to l,e a gc11:1i1:c oue.

26 c. l-l. Q. Yom Excc l!o 11n f-.:1.\"S in 1lw :smnc d c::; ­ J1nld1 that after carefully tl!i11ki;1.!.! the mnt.tcr o,·c r, yon, 011 1 li o 21st. A11gn,t,, ,,·o t.·:: informing }\Ir. Rich­ rno11d t bat lie wn s to I cJ s11:-;p :rnd e J fro :11 Iii:; dt11,i es, and t l1:t1. Y 0111· Ex, cl lc n<'v wrol<' at t lie sa me 1 i111e a 11 o te to Judge iimrny, n; ki.,:g J1im t,J come aud see

, ou t lio fol lmYill!! dn ,·. Can Y onr Excellcnev o l l

;110 Cornmis~ io1t ~vl1y,.i f yo11 doulJtcd Ll:c loyalty of Mr. )In:-:gnLYe and tli "' S'l1111ll11c:;.; of hi s ::tlh·icc that it. w:1s inaLhisaldo to :·rn:-:pc11d Mr. Hicl1111011cl, Yonr Excolloul·_v did 11or. pn.r1ict1lnrly seek his l1011or'::; advice lieloro iuf1>rilling l\Ir. Hicl1mo 11d tlia1. 110 was 10 be Sllr,pelldod ?-A. The rc:n;t)n wl,y I did n,,t

r,cok hi, lio llo r·~ :i1h i1·0 in regard to the susp:·n:::io11 or Mr. Hi ebrnond \\'as bccnnsc 1 fclr. that l ~honld

ho i11<·nrring a grcntor rosponsiliility if his Honor ad"iscd n1e to take a forbe:.vi11g co111 sc. I felt that

I must suspe11d l1im, and I did 11ot. d100::;e to ask 1\1r. Murray\ nchice on that µoillt. 2609. (j. Did ,J 11dgc M11rray ('all on yon on tbo

2 21ul Angnst iu co1bcqnence of Y onr Exl'ell c ncy's note ?-A. I take it that he did.

2610. Q. Did h 8 then n.d,·i:rn tlint Your Ex.

cellouey liad n o p rrn·er t:) ::;11:-:pend Mr. Richmond wit.110111. reference to the ExccutiYc Council ?-A. I

261, . (J. I litl his Honor at t he same intervie w

advise Y 011r Excellency that your p owers of inter­ diction d id not apply to thi::; case of Mr. Ricb­

mond';:; ?-A. I um u11ablc to say. I Llo 11ot

recollect. 2612. (J. Did Yu11r Excclleney inlcrd:et. Mr.

Ricl1111011d 011 1lie following day, t.lie 23nl Augnst?­ A. I do 111>L rc,ncrnber tho d:ito; it appe:1n:; on the

papen. 26, ,. Q. \Yliat pre \·iou .-; e xpe ri ence of Judge

Murrny liad Jed yott to e x poet that l,e would be

ad vor:- u to adopti 11g r o-=o l 11to m e asures ?-A. I cannot name any spceial in stance nt this _mome nt, but _,h e impression was Yory clear in my _rnrnd at tlrn_t t1mc that Ilis IIonor, Mr. Mnrrny, might not advise mo

10 take auy resolute co11rso, and Jiis subsequent

attitude co1;firms 1his suspicion, 261 +· Q. I Lcli ern Your Excellency rnut for Mr. Tir.llantiue 011 the 221Hl August, I 905, and thereafter consulted with him on tile Hichmond case, ,,·ith the exception q1at . Your ExcelJency a sked writtm advice from His Honor (1) as to the effect of

suspem:ion of Mr. Hil'hn1ontl npon hi:-; officf' as

Executive Councillor, and (2) as to whether tl1e Colonial Office Regulations were operative in

British :N"ow Guinea, and, if so, whether they were to be reaanled as an amplification of tbe Royal

Instructio~1 s ?-A. I think that Mr. Monckton was etayinµ at my house at tl,e time, and the probability is that I spoke to him of the matter. 26 1 5. Q I s Judge . M m:rny's . a ccom:t in his

evidence concerning l11 s rn terview with Your

Exce1lcncy on the 25th Angust s ubstantially

correct ?_:_A, I am unable to recall bMiug used the words, but tl1 e irnprcs. ion I form ·fron1 what Mr.

Mnrrav here says i s 1hat he urged upon me that I ]ind d~ne, or was about to do, something improper with reaanl t0 :M:r. Richrnonu, Lnt I had not asked Lim to ~omo and sec me with a Yiew of consulting him upo n that pha ·e of the mutter. I think the

latter part of that conYersation is s nbstantially

rio-ht so far ns my memory goes, but I do no1. think tl~t the words from "I shall be there'' to " the

papers will be sent to Melbourne') are correct.

2616. Al?-. jferbcrl. - Was a1lything said by Your Exet·11ency ahon t t!10 course yon iotended to pursue at the Co1111eil 111octiug :'-.A. l rlo n ot r ecollect, bnt J \\' i:;h to ::;tato tliat wl1en Mr. Ric lrn101Hl eliargctl me witl1 lilumlori11g. i11caracity, nud fo.lsifyi11g tho

minutes, aud with destroyi11g official minute:;, I felt no option as Administrator bnt 10 s 11spo11d him. The qn ci:;t ion ai,; to \\'hctlicr tho eliarges were trne or not I regnrded ns a separate one. I haYo 1;tatetl my

reasons fnlly irt my de:-:pn.t.ei1c::; to the Governor­ General bearing on tlio f'nbjer.t. 26 17. '/he Clwinnrw -1 will a sk Y o 11r

Excelbncv to read thi::; let te r from Yonr

Excellency'::; Pri vato Secrolary of tho 22nd

January las t to II. Grce110, and to n.sk wliother

Y ou1· Excellency dl'siros to rnnko any statement r eo·anlin

minLl it was not a. qnostion ::;o mtwli as to ""lvlrn,t he might have done a s to wliat lie did do. IIo, in my

opin ion, ought to have insisted upon tho Judge'::; advice Lein).! carriC:'d out, but a s far as n,y reeollection of the papers goe:-; lie did ne,i, as Governrneut

Secretary in clrnrge at Port Mcresby at tho time, exercise his authority jn the way lie should ha,o

done.

2619. Q. A.

2620. Q. A.

262. I. Q. Cnn Y< ,ur Excellency state . w li_y the

Chief Medical Officer's athice was not sought

regarding the dcatli rnte on the N orthcrn Di vision gold-field ?- A. It is perfectly trne that his advice was · not. asked f"or, one reason licing that he knows

11othing whateYer of the circums ta11ces of tl1e co11ntry, never having left Port Moresby, and I consnltc(l the -:\-f ed ic::ll Office r at Samarni on the mntter, and as far

as I recollect t l1e de::;patch wliicli I wrote on the

s11bject was sent away almost irnmetliately. 1 admit that the matte r 011gbt to have gone before him either the11 or afterwards. 262 z. (J. In Mr. T11rncr's evidence he states thnt

Your Excellency said ' · the head of the channel lias heon closed au~! I will ha.rn to keep m.r prc::;o nt

position. I understand by tho head of the channel h e meant Mr. Musgrave, and that I will have to keep my present position in consequence." Ca11 Yonr Excellency tell the Commissioners wl1e1her :Mr.

Turner's ~1ssnmption was warrnnte(l ?-A. Yes, I meant Mr. Musgrave by tho bead of tho elrnunel. 2623. (2. Is there any regulation forbidding tli e native police to marry ?--A. It is a matter which I think is left to the Commandant and to officers in char~e of detachments. I am not a ware of nny

regulations r eforring thereto which is in force

thronghout j he Territory. 2624. Q . Could you say if they are discouraged from getting married ?-A. I should say so. 2625. Q. Why ?-A. It m eans so many more

mouths to feed at every station. It means that the place is infested with children w h r,se blood is filled with malarial microbes and a cause of malaria fever and a danger to white men. To my mind there is

every reas on for not allowing other but senior non~ cornmtssioned officers and probably men of long service and good character being married. 26z6. Q. I s there no danger from the other stand­ point in 1hat those troops are all sing le men ?-A. I d o not think the danger ,vould bein the least lessened by their being marrie

urge about the police being married i s this. Wh0u a man jo_ in s the force it i::; not al ways po~sible to t e ll whether he is alreaclv married or not, nnd if he were passed on to some out-station and there was allower.

Captain F. R. Barton, 21st No'Y., 1906.

1~8

to b 1 married to , na ti Y • woman, t liat rn1rnlt1, w lien the policeman' ... lime hn-; '\'.})irctl unil h • ~ue:5 hornl', mn:-:-t n ce,,; a1ilv lie e,\-,t ad1if1. 262-. Q. I ·umle1 ·tanJ that :\Ir. ::\In~g ·n.,·c and Mr. Bullantinc ar the two :-:euior Ex •t·nti,~c Ollieer:--? -A. Y c-;, in the Terri tun·.

252 . fl,. I dr. 11u...;g;.nrn an cffici ut officer?­

A . ..1..~o. 2629. Q. L, )fr. Ballautinc nn ctlicieut officer?-A. Yes. 26 30. Q. YotH Exeelloncy in cviJencc refer: to tho compnl~ory clansc iu the Jnte L:intl Bill a · an

utter!)' unfair one. \Yhy ~honld tlii:-- be f-O, if the

native i rompensa.ted and tbe Licntcnnnt-Governur is satisfied that the ln1Hl i • not reqnircd or likolr to he reqniretl bv the natiye,; ?-A. If n 1inti,·e

la.ud and ho 1l~es 11ot. wish to ::-ell that lallll, I cann0t see, in the light of the promise which waH originn lly made hy the (:}ov rnmont to tho native., tliat it.

would be a fair thing to in. ist or enforce him to sell

it. I mn certainly in favonr of forcing rn1,tivos to sell lnml which may be reqnire,l for pnlilic purposes, aud since the Act wn.s passed I l1nve observed that the specified pmposes for which lnntl may be rcqnirml for pn blic pnrposes do ur>r co,·er cnongh gron ntl. I

understand tlmt when the oxpres ion "For pnplic pnrpo::-e~" iB used it is uccesf':try to spcci fy w !,at

these public purposes are.

HERBERT WILLIAM CH.UIPION

was furl lier exarninet1, as follows :-2631. ./llr. HO'hert.-)Ir. M11sgrnve has I nniler­ stand, at times had snpcrvision o[ the Tron::;ury on occasions when the Treasmcr bas bec11 ab5cn t ?-A.

Yes. 2632. Q. fa that tlio i11Yariahle practice on such occasion .-A. No. Since I !Jave been Acconntant I have bad charge of the Treasury ; tliat il:l since the

3 oth M~trch, I 9c 5. 2633. Q. Siuce that date what work has l\Ir.

Mu arnve done on the occasions of ~Ir. Bn,l]autino's abse~ce ?-A. Upon the first occasion when ~Ir. Ballantine went away the elieqne:-:; were sig11eLl by the Goverument SecrntarY, as far as l recollect.

2634. Q. Throughout "the whole period of l1is absence ?-A. Ye::;, that is all the work lie ditl Ile

either came down to the Treasury, or the chcq uc-book was sent np here. 2635. Q. What ·was the practice before that lhtte when ),fr. Ballantine was ubseut ?-I have no iclea. I was not in the Trcasnrv then.

2636. J.'!te Chairman (~t Captain Barton's request). -For bow many weeks were you in charge or the Treasury during tho time thn.t Mr. ~Jusgrave state8 ho bad to do a large part of the Tre:.t~urm·'s work ?­

A. Since I have been Acconutant ho has not had to do anytbing except sign cheq11e · for ubont two

months on ouc occa.sion. After that I signed the

cheques. During the first time Mr. lhllantine went away. Mr. :Musgrave signed the letters, which were type-written at the Treasury. 2637. (At Capta.in Barton's request).- \Yere you

in Port :Moreshy in June, when Captain Barton became Administrator ?-A. Yes. 26 38. (At Crrptain Bw·ton's 1·equest).- Si11ce the date when Captain Barton became At.lministrator are you aware that Mr. Musgrave has e\·er done any

more Trea ury work ban that of igning chequ s or letters ?-A. le bas not done :.tny other work. 2639. (At Captain Barton's relJuest).-Ilave you been ab:-:;ent on le:ne ::;ince June, 190+ ?-..d. No.

264-0. (At Cuptain Barton's request).-IIave yon been continually crnployetl at the Treasury duriocr that time ?-A. I have been n.t the Trea.'un . Tbe Government store is under tho Treasurv. .,

26+1. (Jt Copt,1in Ea, ton's ,•eq111 t).-1: the ,o,·ernn 'llt :,;f ,r • part oC the Trl a::,nry l)ppn.rtmen t ? -J. Ye--. 26+:!. (~lf ('op{altl }]r11fo11's I q11est ).-\i, ere )'Oil in t·l.:1 :-ge or the .·tor• frnlll ,Ju111·, 190+, until you heeame aeeountant nt the Trt·n~un· ?-A. Ye:-, a.nd I am ~rill in chnrgl' of the :-to·o. · 2 6+3· (~lt Captui11 llrtrlun 's re1n :;t ).-\Y 011ld y ou, aR Go,·ernmc11t S: o: ,•kcep:.! r, know if )Ir. :\1u:;­grn.rn was tlJing Tn.usnry wor1-: ?-A. I Lhink I wonld know. 26++, (j. .... Iigi1t he do Tr : asnry work withot:~ yon k11o_wi11g !'-A. Ile could 1~ot ha.Ye bcl n down at the Trca. ' Ill')' withmtl Ill)' k11owi11g; hut wheth'3r the w11rk wa.· scut 11p or 11ot 1 conld not sa..v. 26+5 J/1'. Jierbert.-Do yo:1 say 1l1n.t :iir. ~fu:,;­graYe lrns nc"or i11. pectctl an.v cf tl:e Troai,;m·cr's accouuts or working:,; s .11ce yon kt,·e l,ccn in tbe office 11,:,; Accountnut ?-A. Uc came tlown to the Trea:,;my twice, I thiuk, anil d1eekc1l the c::i.sl1 in h:11Hl and looked nt the l n.lanee of tl,e survey of tho cash-hook to see if it agreed with the cash in hand. lle mny have come down on three occ:1::,ion~. 2646. The Chair,nan.-Is that nll Your Excellency wi~hes to be askeL l of Mr. Champion? 26+7. Captain Bm·ton.-Y cs, that i:; all. HIS HONOR JOHN HUBERT PLUNKETT MUI RAY wn.s further exami11otl, as follows :-264-~. 1'/ie Chairman (at Captain J-Ja,·ton's re­q11(:.~t).-In yonr evidence gi Vl'll tlic other dny-, when speaking of Mr. Bnllantinc, yo11 said­" To put the matter briefly, he i:,; really 1h'1 Go,·ernor. All sorts of theories hn,ye been ad ,·an coll to account for 1hc influence be wields, but I do not lwlie-ve iu any of them, n.nd so I do uot mention them ; bnt the result is tlrnt he indulges in what 1\'lr . .dn::-­grnt·c in a minute describes as an insane n.ssmnptio11 of authority, and at.tempts to rule nil Departments." \\'11:it nre the theories which von do not vour:;elf l>elicve ?-A. I w1rnltl sooner not state them, ·because I do not believe there is n wonl of trnth in t!i('m. 26+9. (.At Cnptain JJ({rton's 1·('quegt).-Wh?, if yon do _ 1•ot bPlie\ e them, have yo11 mentioned tlte matter in your evidence ?-A. l mentioned them for this reaB011, tlwt it might be clear that it 'lrns uot merely n piece of my own imagination. .,\RTHUR JEWELL wn~ ~worn a11d examined, as follows:-26~0. The Chairman. - \Vhat is your name?­A. Artlinr Jewell. 2651. Q. W"lmt position:-- do you occt1py?-~l. I a.m PriYatc Secretary to the A1lmini:-trator and Cler l· of the Executi're a.n~l Lcp:islatiYe Conncils. 2652. ,1/r. Herbert.-A the Clerk of the Ex{'cn­tive Conncil yon will have opportunitic.« of formiug yonr opinions of ·what takes place there. It has been stated in evidence that "::\Ir. Ballantinc's in:fl.nencc was specially noticeable in Execnti ve Council, whore practically hi:-- vpice i: · upreme .. , \Vhat is your experience ?-.A. I am quite 111rnhle to grasp the meaning of th tatcrnent. I tlo not ,'l'C wbat b im-plied. 2653. (/. Ha. ~Ir. Ballantine':-- infl.nen<'e more weight in ou11cil cit lier among mcmb r~ or with l i::; E.·ct·lleneY thnu the it11l11e11ct' of anY oilier rn mb r? -A. Pos 'ibly in matt ·r:- whcr' :ilr .. Ballantiue' l01w ' ~ local expericnc' :111ti ~o forth, his opinion i r ganl 'd n.s weitrl1ty, but I cannot pt1ssilily ::,ny to'"' httt ext •ut­it influences His Excellcu ·~··

129 Anthony l\Ittsgra.ve, 22nd Nov., 1906.

26 54-. Tlie CJiair?mtrt.-1tas Your txcelleney any rurther evidence ? 2655. Captain Barton.-No, I think thatL all. 2656. The Chairman.-! would like to point out that the Commission will, in the course of their work,

have to refer to the papers which have oeen pro­

duced, and also reserve to themselves the right to refer to any pnblic documents. 2657. Captain Barto,l.-l wish to say that I abso­ lutely deny that there was any thought in my miod, or that I packed the Council either in the case of

Mr. Richmond or in the case of Mr. Musgrave. . In the case of the consideration as to whether ).Jr.

Musgrave should be suspended or not when the

matter was before the Executive Council the two extraordinary members who sat on the Richmond . suspension case were present also at that Council. J t was owing to Mr. Bram ell, one of tho5e extraonli­ nary members, who was doubtful whether Mr. Mus­ grave should be suspemled or not, who was largely instrumental in ca.psing me to refrain from suspending Mr. Musgrave. I refer the Commi::,siom·rs to a pro­ test which was made at the time by Mr. Monckton and Mr. Bramel!. I think that is all I wish to say.

THIRTY-THIRD DAY.

THURSDAY, 22ND NOVEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION l\lET AT THE CouNCIL CHA:\rn1rn, POR'l' MORESl:SY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorahie J. A. IL MA<'KAY, C.R., M.L.C. (Chairman) W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HONORABLE ANTHONY MUSGRAVE, C.M.G., M.L.C., was further examined, as follows :-26 5 8. 11he Witness.-Capr,ain Barton has stated that before he became .Admini,strator "Mr. Musgrave did his utmost to clo Mr. Ballantine an injury," and that I n.a,de that attempt while I was Deputy-Ad­ ministrator. I was really Acting-Administrator, and had the full powers of the .Administrator. "It will be seen in what light the then .Administrator (the late Judge Robinson) regarded this action of Mr.

Musgrave's." I can I think produce the whole of

the papers with all the minutes from the late Judge Robinson and my despatches to tbe Governor­ General and certain supporting financial ret.urns and statements. In none of those was there any inten­ tion or attempt on my part to injure Mr. Ballantine. The question was purely one of the .soundness of our financial nosition at that date-1903. The corres­ pondence took place between February of that year

and the end of .Augnst. I beg to put in those

papers. [ 26 59.J I do not propose to deal seriatim with Captain Barton's charges and insinuations against my::;elf, but I woul

useful, thoughtful, businesslike, and thoroughly upright. I am fortunate indeed in having such an aseistant." From :February, I 886, to SeptemLer, 1888, I served with the Honorable J. Douglas,

F.14262.-I

C.M.G., Special Commissioner. On transferring the control of the Protectorate to Sir William MacGregor, Mr. D0uglas wrote of me in complimentary terms, and recomruended that I should be created the of­ ficer to administer the affairs of the Possession in the absences of the .Administrator. In bis first

.Annual Report for I 888, Sir William MacGregor wrote:-'' Mr. Musgrave, as Government Secretary, ancl Mr. Rely, as Resident Magistrate, have brought to bear the experience of previous years in New

Guinea, and have faithfully and well discharged their duries.'' In his next report, for 1889-90, Sir William MacGregor wrote further:-" Mr. Musgrave,

as Governmeu.t Secretary, has shown such devotion to bis work, and such administrative ability in con­ clucting official business, that it is easy for the Ad­ ministrator to be more frequently absent from Port ~Ioresby than it would be otherwise the case." In

189c I resign eel the position as Treasurer, held for two years, and received a very complimentary letter from Sir William MacGregor, recognising the

thoroughly satisfactory ,vay in which the duties had been performed. .At that time we only bad a public income of £15,000 per annum, but I secured a small credit balance on each year's outlay. .At the end of

1890 Sir William MacGregor insisted on my becoming Local Auditor. .At the close of Sir William Mac­ G ·cgor's term of service, in September, .i 898, in reply to : 1 n address presented to him, he mid as follows :­ " I know that at times officers have thought I

demLnded too much. We have often been in cir­ cumst:mces that required exceptional effort. The general tone of the Service is excellent. The conduct of all officers has not of course been invariably

immaculate, bnt it will compare very favorably with the service of any other country in nearly

similar • circumstances. It owes much m this re­ spect to 1 he example set before officers by the

Head of ti1e Executive Branch. The first· thing required of an officer is devotion to

the second it> that he insists on fair play. I am

satisfied with die Service in both particulars. From the Government Secretarv down to the latest recruit in the Constabnbl'y, men 'tHke a keen interest in their work aml manifest a devotion to duty that is much greater than their poor pay.'' I would like to refer the Commission also to the despatch of the 9th June,

I 90 3, from Sir George Le Hunte to the Governor­ Genernl, in which it is stated:-" In Mr. Musgrave, the Government Secretary, I ha

Robinson, to show the perfectly satisfactory and amicable arrangements which existed between us. He at that time was Deputy-Administrator. I do not think it is necessary for me to offer any further observationr,. I rest my c·ase as to my official

reputation on the extracts I have placed before tho Commission and on the evidence which I have pre­ viously given in general denial of the Aclrninistrator's charges.

2660. Mr. Herbert.-How do you account for such serious charges being made against you by the

Administrator if they are so groundless as you

state ?-;-A. Jt has been a mystery to me. 266 r. Q. Has there been any bad feeling on your part towards the present .Administrator ?-A. No, not that I am conscious of. I think that I may say

it is quite the reverse-the bad feeling is towards me. 2662. Q. You believe that ?--A. I cannot help

believing it from what bas passed. 2663. Q. What causes yon to believe that ?­

A. The general tone adopted towards me by His Excellency in official matters and to which I have already directed attention, and possibly bi s desire to have a younger man in the position.

nthouy .lluag-1'1\ o, 2:.?nd No-.., 1000.

2664-. Q. Ilavc yon hatl a11y evitlc1H· of that dc:,.irn on 1h pnrt of the Admini:trator ?-A. ~o, it i · more conjecture tlia.11 anythi11g eli-e, from hi attitmle toward me. Uc may be somewh:if j alom; of the

ver mnch wider e xperience I ha\'c had in the

Colonial erdcc. 2665. (J. Have } on eYer given c:rn e 1.o His

Excellency for the attitude yon ay he has adopted towards yon ?-A. I do not think so . I have placed unreservedly the private letters I have receiYed from him and written to him, before the 1ommission.

2666. Q. You were at one time in 1894 instructed by the Admini~tmtor t o inspect the Government Departments ?-A. Yes .

2667. Q. You intimated to His Excellency your r~l_ncta~1c e to accept that dnty ?-A. Ye. . Perhap::; I dw do 1t somewhat too emphatically, but I felt unequal to assume that what seemed to me to be tnntamount to the responsibility for two other Departments in

addition to my own. I did, however, pay two visits to the Treasury, antl certainly two to the Lands and Survey Department. . 2668 .. Q. ~a · there anything else beside yom

tnne berng fully occupied by your own

2669. Q. Did you carry ont the ins pection of the Government offices, as directed by his Excellency, so fa:r as yon were. able? A.-Y cs, I think I may say I did. I may pornt out that an inspection of the Trea­ sury offices, with a great nnmber of separate branches of the service involved, would have taken a very large proportion of my official time each week, which was already fully occupied by my own ·sp ecial

duties. 2670. Q. Did a state of things exist in any of the Departments yon were iustructed to inspect which made you reluctant to examine th em, or make your­ self in any vray responsible for them ?-A. At the

Treasury I had been told mor2 than once that the Curator of Intestate Estates Branch ha

the accounts in the Curator of Intestate E states

Branch some years t\go, and I knew that the work of a thoroughly conscientious scrntiny was of a very important and rather onerous eharactor. 2671. 11/ie Cliainnan.-As au olcl official I take it that you know that a wel!-onlerecl office takes a com­

paratively short time to examine. I::, that n ot so?­ A. Yes, as a rule I think it is.

2672. (J. Is the Treasnrv a well-ordered office?­ A. I think that in many of tho detail s it bas improved of late. 2673 . Q. Then it needed improvement ?-A. Yes, I believe it did. ·

· 2674. Q. Who is responsible for the impro,·ement? -A. I think some very good work has been done by Mr. Champion, 1be present AceonntR.nt. He is a mo t industrious official, with a good deal of capacity, in

m_y view. 2675. Q. Then, is the Commission to. understand thn.t if the Treasnry is now somewhat, improved, that improvement is Jne to Mr. Champion and not to the

Treasurer ?--A. Very greatly, I think. It is pro­

lmbly al o that the amlit reports received from the Auditor-General of 1he Commonwealth may have led to Ar. Ballantine taking a· more rosponsibie view of his

2676. Q. Do yot1 remember Mr. Rnllantine leavincr """°i th His Excellency for au inland trip iu Decemhe;~

1..;(.;+ ?-A. Yes, I do.

2677. Q. \\ hen dill Mr. I, itzgcrahl ent r the:!

Trea!-111'.Y '?-A. 11 the 28th Oc tober, 1904.

2678 . (J. Wb n llid Mr. ymou, go on leave from

the Tren~nry ?-A. n the 13th December, 1904-. 2679. (J. \\'h o . io-nrcl tnc c heques, ancl to whom wer matters referred tl 11ring .i\1r. Ba Jla.nti1ie's

al1::;ence ?--A. I di

JOHN RICHMOND

was fort her cxmnined, as follows :-·

i68o. The Witne,<1s.-l wish 1.o make tho followino· t, st:itern ent :ibont WorkR :-About, 1901 Governor Le Unnte ordered and iu. tructed that the char()'e of the ,,,. orks Departrnen t should devolve upon the

Chief Government Surveyor, and stated his reasons in the paper::; having reference to the case. Con­

secpwntly all papers and records i connexion with · works matters w ere dealt ,vith hv the Chief Govern-111~1:t Surveyor, ~nd the annual report upon these afimrs ema11ated from that ~fficer. _ In 1904, nmongst

other matters, the gnest10n ot extension of the

Governme11t wharf at Port Moresby was dealt with and after objections from the Administrator it wa~ dc~ile

pos1t1on and design for gui

show the ca~·e and attention devoted to every aspect elf the question, and the soundness of the conclusions can be judged therefrom, but, before the work could be carri€d into effect, apparently the Administrator and Mr. Ballantine had decided to Lave their own ideas carried out quite revardless of Executive

C?nncil or of. professional ad;ice. Then, ar~arently w1t.h the obJect of more readily carrying 011t these ideas, _ the charge of the Works Department was Rnddenly taken out of the hands of the Chief

Uo,·ern:n.e~t Surveyor, and all papers, plans, and respons1b1hty connected with Public vVorks were liandetl over to the Head Gaoler and Overseer of Works, who, although he has many

0

and

who, tbereforo, woulJ almost inevitably be lets able to properly represent a professional matter, or keep an! proper system of records, or to creditably conduct official correspondence. At the same time the evident desire of the AdminiMrator to decry the ~alne of the ser~ices of the Chief Government Snrveyor in Works, as 11_i. other ma~ters, ':as made ap1~arent by the snp­

pre. s1on of the 1mmed1at-ely preceding annnnl Works report from the Chief overnment Surveyor. With regard ~o the n.ctiou take11 by the Admi:i°i.i trator, as how_n !n the pre:,;ent wharf. extcn ·ion, I have to say that 1t ~: now and must •ontmue t o be very much more

expen~1vc to carry out and to maintain than w ould be the de.sign. ~rhich wa approYed hy the Executive Council orig111ully. The pre.; nt extension will al. 0 have other disadvantage whiC'h a ('ritical con idera-

1 ion of the plan a1Hl paper.' in the ca~e will make apparent. As to the m:inner in which the r cord and correspondence of tho 1York ' D e partm nt are now being ca.rrietl. out, the omrni : ioncr: will he ahle to form an opinion from inq uirincr and i n,' p ctiou.

2681. The Cliairm.an.- Yon onplcd :\Ir. Rallan­ tine'::; name with that of Hi. E. <'ell ncy in your

statement. \V~1at evicleuee have you that it -.;vn Mr. Ballantine'. wish that lbis alteration .· hould take

i3i

place ?-.A. nly 1\Ir. Ballautine\; strenuous opposi­ tion to any attempt to make a new design or to carry out a new GoYernment wharf in a new place. 2682. Q. In his capacity as what ?-A. IIc always opposed it in the Execµtivo Council.

2683. Q. Did His Excelleucy antl Mr. Ballantine make tbis alteration in opposition to the tleci:-ion of tbe Executive Council and without bringing the matter before them again ?-A. So far a· I know they

did. I did not know of its being brought up before

Council again. 2684. jjfr. Herbert.-Were you present nt all the meetings of the Executirn Council about this time? -A. I believe I was. I do not know of any I wa ·

absent from. I was present at every meeting when I wash Port. 2685. Q. An

of it.

2636. Tlte Witness.-The next matt.er I wish to refer to is in connexion with the LantlR Office. From November, 1900, when I first came to Port MoreRby, I haye practica,l]y been in ~harge of all records,

papers, and plans until the date of my snspension. For the first part of tho penod I was Chief Drnughts­ man. When I first came to the office there was no system of record whatever. The papers were heaped together. There was no plan catalogue, nor were tbe papers in any way connected with the plans. All this work had to be done by me from the beginning. It was impossible to get assistance t.o enable them to be done any faster. Mr. H. Russell, who was then

Chief Government Surveyor, was fully occupied. either in administrative wo~·k, or in travelling, or on leave. Since I lui.ve he'en in charge of the Depart­ ment the records have been made as complete as we

could make them. I ha.ve always had great difficult.y in getting assistance in the office and elsewhere until Mr. Matthews came, I think in December: 1903, and had to work with entirely inexperienced men. I had

to tea.ch each officer as much of his work as possible, as well as do my own work. ·when I was suspended there was an experienced officer, Mr. Matthews, in the office, but he was not allowed to ta.ke charge, and instead Mr. Drummond. was sent for and put in

cbarae. I have to point out that I believe Mr.

Dru~mond to have been entirely inexperienced in office work. Mr. Drummond said to me and to others that he ciid not know anything ahoui office work, and said that he had told the Administrator so when he

sent for him to take cluixge of the office. I believe that an examination of the office since Mr. Drummond has been in charge will clearly prove his lack of ex­ perience in Lands and Mines Department office work.

2687. Mr. J-lerbert.-Do you mean Survey Office work and Land Title work ?-A. All of them. I do not wish to go into all the matters 1hat I know of as showing inexperience on the part of Mr. Drummo.ud in Land Office, Titles Office, and Mines Office work. I will only mention one particular subject, that is the method adopted by Mr. Drummopd in taking or send­ ing deeds direct to the Administrator for signature, anu not taking with them the papers that should accompany them. Part of my evidence in support of this statement is that most of the deed papers which I have seen la.tely do not show any detailed action as

to signing or regi.sterinr

2688. The Chairman.-! wish you to clearly under­ stand that the Commission has no desire to close any man's mout.h on any matter of this kind, and con­ sequently I take it t.hat you realize tbat you are

clo ing your evidence on your own wish ?-A. Yes. I do not wi;;h. to show any personal feeling, but I must show that the office was not properly couducte

THE HONORABLE RALPR MELMOTH DRUMMON:bj 1.L.C.,

wn, · further examined, as follows :-

2689. Jfr. lferbat.-Y on have hgard Mr. Ricl1-mond giving his evi

are snbmitted for ~ign'I. me to His Excellency with­ out presenting to him :1.. tho time the papers dealing with the matter to which the

cellency sends them back signed. I have not sent the papers in itny case since I have been in -the office. 2690. Q. Which do you think is the proper course to adopt ?-A. I think that a,s there is an Order in

Council for the issue of the deeds, the matter might well be left to the Registrar of Titles. 2691. Q. Do you not think that sending the deeds to His Excellency withont 1he covering papers is relying somewhat too mu(!h upon His Excellency's memory of the transaction, and is apt to dispense

with what might otherwise be another check upon the trnnsaction ?-A. Yes, it certainly

0

~

2692. Q. What experience have you bad in office work before you came here ?-A. I ha"'e l,een four years writing reports an

2693. Q. What experience have you haJ. in

general central Janel office work ?-A. I have not been in an office at all. 2694. Q. Have you had any experience h1 land titles regi~tration work prior to your coming to New

Guinea ?-A. No. 2695. Q. You are, I believe, adopting a · new

system of numbering mining leases ?-A. I am

a"

registered 1 6.

0

2696. Q. Do you say that th.e G.M.L. number in your office should bear the same number as that given to it by the warden ?-A. Yes. 2697. Q. Does tLe ·warden number gold-mining leases ?-A. No.

2698. Q. What does he number ?-A. He num-bers the section. '

2699. Q,. He also numbers tp.e ap;plicatjon for the lease ?-A. Yes. 2 700. Q. Which of these two numbers does your register follow ?-A. It should follow them all. •

2701. 11 /te Chairman.-I--Iave you anything further · you wish to say, Mr. Drummond ?-A. No. 2702. Q. Mr. Baldwin in his evidence said that he made an application for two allotments of land in Port l\loresby, but they were both refuse,Q. Can you give the Commission any information on this point? -A. He has only maiie one application, on the 27th July, 1904, within the last three years.

2703. Q. Was it refused ?-A. No. Mr. Baldwin was informed on the 2nd Augqst, 1904, that bis application was deferred, and coulc). not. be dealt with at once, because it could not be made an exception to

the rule recently followeJ, that is, to defer dealing with applications for the purchase of lar,d :.mtil some settled policy had been

R. M. Drummond, 22nd Nov. , 1906.

132

1704. 1'-11·. Herbert.- ould Mr. Baldwin hav made an application for a lea ehold ?-A. He could have made an appli •atiou for a 21 years' lea .. e, and h!.\d it been agricultural land, for a 60 year ' lea e.

2705. Q. There wa no bar at that time to the

lea ing of land under the old ordinance ?-A . .X one whatever. 2706. Q. Did the general public know that?-A. Yes. In most cases they have been offered a lease

when they applie

Anglican and the London ::\fis ionary Societies, for agricultural land. 2708. Q. Were there any instances in which

leases have been refused when offered in lieu of the freehold applied for ?-A. Yes. I would like to point out that under the old ordinance that leasing was such an expensive matter that I can understand men

not taking them up, and waiting for the new lau

ARTHUR JEWELL

was forther examined, as follows ;-2709. The Chairman.-Do yon produce certain official papers which are requireJ. by the Com­ mission ?-A. Yes, I produce to the Commission the fo:lowing minute papers which are in my charge as

Private Secretary :-T. Claim for pension by Hon. A. Musgrave.

6. Charges against Mr. Bramell, R.M., C.D. 8. Correspondence. Inspection of Departments by Government Secretary. 9. Transferring . amounts from one vote to

another.

1 c. Mr. Richmond's suspension. 1 I. Delay in forwarding instructions to the

Treasurer on his departure for Thursday Island. 12. Appeals from the Govern11Jent Secretary for extra clerical assistance.

I 3. Charge against V. C. Ahuia, heard by Mr.

Ballantine.

16. Loss of time incurred through papers in

Government Secretary's Department being tardily forwarded. 19. Stores discrepancies in Northern Division. 21. Government Secretary complains o.f pressnre

of work, &c.

(THI~ COMMISSION MET .A.T "l-IILLWORTH," PORT MORESBY.)

CHARLES GRANT GARRIOCII

was further examined, as follow -· :-2 710. The Chairman.-Do you pro

official papers ?-A. Yes1 I produce the original papers relating to the following subjects :­ Reporting deficiencies in Tamata Store. Hawker's Licence.

Commandant's Reports: Ekiri Raid. Sogeri scare (Greene's case). Confusion arising owing to tho Head oE Lands Department not being consulted as ta

Works.

Maiva :Natives migrating to Ilisin and Kavacli. Letter of Instructions to J. S. Russell. Provisional grants. Half-pay and overtime in connexion with Pro-

vi ional grants. Mr. Oelrich's papers.

l\Ir. Ballantine's application for q natter~ in the old printing office building. Pothier's paper~ (re photograph by l\1r.1Iatthews). Charge~ aaain t ..A. C. English.

::\1r. Ballantine's papers. Mr. M. H . .Moreton's papers. :Mr. E. J. Matthews' papers. Mr. G. 0. Manning's papers.

J. T. Seymour's complaints re stores. O'Brien's papers. J. T. O'Malley. Repairs to 8/ai.

Government employcs uniforms (withholding jumpers). Mr. R. M. Drummond's papers. Visit of Italian Cruiser Calabrfo.

Mr. Buchanan's applications for land at Orokolo (four files). Deeds of Grant 478 and 479. Bnnti::ig's case.

Deaths in Northern Division. ~ilne Bay murders. (Bi.) J. R. Stuart-Russell's complaints re stores at Mekeo. E. J. Weeks, intestate estate.

S. P. Haughton (two files). Monthly journals, famata, January-J·u11e. P.H. Parke. Inspection of Lands Department by Government

Secretary. Inspection of Treasury by Government Sec-retary. Transfer of amounts from one vote to another. R. Solomon's application for land at Normanby

Island.

T. J. A. Thompson's application for land at

McKinley Island. E. S. Tooth's application, Isuleli, Fyfe Bay. H. Jones' application for a horse paddock at Lemaka,. Application by L. M. S. at Veimauri.

,, ,, ,, near Maipua.

,, ,, ,, at Akiaki.

Dr. Jones' report of 29.1.06 on qllarantine of Ysabel, at Samarai. Native Hospital. Alleged misrepresentation by Mr. Elliott of

visiting villages in Northern Division. Mrs. Musgrave's state of health. Damaged postage stamps. Case of assault, Badari v. Bramel/. 271 J. Tlie Witness.-! also produce the foJlowing copies of original papers, which I certify as being

true. and correct copies :-Sogeri scare, Mr. Greene's case. Ekiri massacre, reports by Commandant. Damaged postage stamps.

Shortage of stores at Tamata. II. vV. Champion's reports on Inte Late Account. and Suspense Account. Charges again t R. M. Bunting.

Survey Loan Paper.:. Damage to postage tam.ps. Charges again ' t W. C. Bruce (two files).

THR IIO~ORABLE RALI'II MELMOTII DIWMMO:ND, ~LL.C'.,

,Ya forth r examine

re the variou , charge made a,

that in all the tate the practice i adopted as how

would his Ex ellency ha e time to read through uch voluminous pa.pers, and has given hi order for the

133 Rev. A. De Boismenu, 23rd Nov., 1906.

deed to issue in Executive Council, and in any of the States it will be found that the que tion of

wbether everything i in order is left to the Re~istrnr of TitlesJ or even less to his deputy. [2713.J Re

my inexperience in office routine, take the position of any of the staff surveyors in the States : he is

9ronght in to tho office from the field and put in

charge (I refer to n, cormtry office where there may he twenty officers under him1 ; he has to p:aln a cer­ tain amount of office routine by relying on his senior draughtsman to put him in the way of the c::tscs, &c., and wh.en one has loyal officers working under him it is quite simp]P, when added to the knowledge the qualified licensed surveyor must. have, bnt if the

officers are hostile and insubordinate, as they have proved themselves while working under mo in this Department, I venture to say that a few mistakes are liable to creep iu. I might also state that I have

never made a rnrious mistake while bead of this De­ partment, although working under difficulties, and all my mistakes have been kept in a, diary, so that there are none that you are not aware of, as I understand

that the diary containing them bas been produced to you. [2714.J Re my system with regard to mining leases, I might mention that it is a most important thing that the head office should show all refusals

relating to mining leases ( see Regulation 1 c8, Mining Act of Queensland, I 898), and there has l,een no effort in t.his direction, as the Commonwealth auditor is aware. As the warden has to issue instrnctions to the Mini1ip; Surveyor to measnre the l ease (say 168), he issues instructions that the section on the ground

should be numbered 168. He iheo forwards it on for approval with his recommendation, which i~ con­ sidered in Council, and if the application is refused is it not feasible that it shoqld appear in its right place on page 168 in the head office as "G.M.l.i. No. 168, refused,'' ::tnd theu if the same ground is applied for on a future occasion it bears a new number, say 196, and so on, so that the wardens aud the head office books should always agree? This is not. my idea., but it is the Queensland method. Their Act is adopted

here, :1nd I spent a ,veck in Qneensland at my own expense learning their system. I venture to state that I have done my utmost by working all hours without any assistance from Mr. Russell and Mr. Matthews to improve this Department, nn

months. I might mention that there arc plenty of letters in this Department asking advice from the State Departments, so both my predecessors conld not lmve been overourdened with experience; [:715.J

There is one matter I would like to refer to, and that is the charge Mr. Rrn:: sell made against me re tearing up deed 165. I had some difnculty in finding that deed, although it was with the papers Mr. Richmond said it was, and I prepared a defence. Now, if I bad not located the deed and got a certificate that all

deeds (both cancelled and otherwise were in the register) ,vere · intact from the Commonwealth Audi­ tor, it would have been hard for me to prove my

honesty, which .I think you will agree is important, because as long as l have that intact I can

make a good li,ing anywlrnre, and now that

Mr. Russell could not prove his false charge

I am being attacked by Mr. Richmond as a last

strnw. I also understand that the Government Sec­ retary and the Judge also intend to state how this Department should be managed. (For Gornrument Secretary's management of land matter please refer to J. Mabony's application of land at Sudcst in tho statement of land delays.) Needle s to say snch

opinions are useless, and if tl10 officers of this Service were to keep their own Department::,; np to date, and not bother auon t interfering with others, 1 von tme to ay ther e would ha Ye been no friction in this small but irritable community.

THIRTY-FOURTH DAY.

FRIDAY, 23RD NOVEMBER, 1906.

(TnE Co:\rn1ss10N :!\JET AT THE RmaN CATHOLIC Mrss10N bTATION, YoLE ISLAND, HALL SOUND.)

P1·eaent:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. IC :MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); vY. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.8.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, SecretarJ to the Commission.

THE RIGHT REVEREND A. DE BOISMENU, COADJUTOR BISHOJ\

was sworn and examined, as follows :-2716. The Chairman.-What is your name?­ A. A. De Boismenu. I am Coadjutor Bishop of the Sacred Heart Mission at this place.

2717. Q. How long have yon been at Papua?­ A. Nine years. 2718. Q. I understand that you wish to give some evidence before the Commission ?-A. Yes, I wish

to state my views in regar

and discourage the dispensation of justice so as to destroy in many cases or even consequently

pervert its effects and high meaning in the eye of white men and natives alike. Without ind0rs­

ing the somewhat exaggerated opinion of many that good right has no protection in New Guinea, I do not hesitate to state that unless a case is laid

before a professional magistrate, the system of sum­ mary justice he·re prevailing in common occurrences, affords no serious guarantee for the acknowledgment of a just. claim, so that whites and natives are in most cases abnormally uncertain whether their rights and persons shall find due protection or not, and the idea of justice so conveyed to the natives is a false and scandalous one. My intention is not to charge the character of any one in the Colouy, but only to show the vices of a system of justice aud the deficiencies of a method of government which are extremely prejudicial to all in this country, and can be amended. For this purpose I shall point out · some of the

principal evils which cause this state of things.

First the plague of interpreters of a bad character has long since been the object of many complaints and sad experiences on the part of white people and natives. Yet the choice of interpreters has not much improved for all that. According to a rather singular policy the delicate functions of interpreters are easily intrusted to old offenders and returned convicts who, thanks to a several years' imprisonment for some serious offence, have picked up a light baggage of pigeon-English words together with a certain liberty of manners in

knowing a few English words does by no means

Rev. . . De Boi menu, 23rd • ov., 1006.

134

relleem the vils that attend th qun.lification of uch men a interpreter". M n oth r than old offencl r

mny be found able to fill this offi e, ancl nothing can be wor e than the canclal for tb native , and their

di

the character of native witne. es. Every one

acquainted with Papuan natives knows bow scarce is among' t them a real truthful man. In fact, most of the native. have not till realized the true con­

ception of truthfulness, much Jess have they come to appreciate its moral valne, and wilh . ome due excep­ tions one must confess at least that their word auJ evidence must not be received without careful reserve and caution. Such an attitude is commanded by the common experience of the facility with which may be raised amongst them a core of eye-witnesses who,

having seen nothing at all, will assert anything, sometimes at their own risks, n,11d for the mer fon of the thing. In this respect, as in many other, the

natives are children, and while they are quite wiser regarded as children and protected as such in matter:-; of contract, labour, &c., I think it ·hould be right

and consistent to regard them as children also iu matters of justice~ hnd withont overlooking their evidence, to grant to these the degree of weighf. ar)

evidence and words. A wise discrimination. such ns is provided in the Native Board Regnlat.ion, No. IV. of 1890, has t,l.ierct'oro to be made, and shon ld over be made. Depositions will then be weigh0

the great benefit of all, that right an

and discriminate between witnesses, nothing short of the special competence and sagacity of a

professional magistrate is wanted. vY ell, in

this country the two-thirds or cases nre dis­

posed of Ly unprofessional men, qualifietl by the sole appointment of the Government, to sit as Judges of natives and whites. Now, however goo

successively ruled over this Mekeo diRtrict, had snd­ denl v sprung up from nn admirnble diverRily of

careers, from those of cook an

trate, and also the supreme secnrity of any right

brought before him. Therefore, if by dint. of applica­ tion and after many blunders snch ofTieers may per­ haps, with good Jong experience, come to be al>I tolerably to settle the small couflict::; which ,la.il.Y arise among t natives, it .· hall ever be intolernble, to any ,vhite man, to be smnmn.rily den.It with by irnch a shorlcoming jurisdiction. Trne, n.11 appeui 111ay ho

lodged against these officers' verdicts. Bnt mean­ while a court ha, been held, pnblic cotll1emnatiou has been pnssed, a humiliation has been inflicted whicb, when falling on n white nmu, antl even when fon,ul nnjnRt arten nnls, shn.ll notably disparage hi~ mime

iu tli0 eye, of t.h na.t.ive:-:, 'om;itlrrablv lrs:,c n, and, ma.ylic, t~tull. · ruin his iulln ,11cr and m~an;; ol' work, Th, •tmtl co diti ne i11 Iii Ii lllllt\l.,c11' , f whit,

· 'd nJ 11· 11 15 iv d ·ou t , l

,

that, in mo t of their difficnltie , all the help in.t

other people have at hand are practically out

of their reach. The l,enefit of a public opinion,

of a lawyer, of a jury, of a conn::;el, i · often •

o hard to ~et that in most ca cs one

cannot do anything el c than to let himself be

tli:.:posed of without any other guarantee than the judgment of an unprofessional rnn.n such a.· a Govern­ ment agent, a.nd this is undonbtodly a most n.bnorrnal fatality. Before stating my coneln::;io11s I. am to peclare that the preceding observations, as well as

the following desiderata, faithfully expres' the con­ victions and earnest desires of more tban forty white people, many of whom have liYed in tlio ::\fokeo dis­ trict for over five, ten, fifteen years. During this

period of time they ha.ve seen mauy Government officers at work. They have v,•itnes eel often much gootl will and some abilities, but they have also often severely suffered from many mistakes, many moolls an,l changing methods; they have specially suffered from arbitrariness. Backed up by this ag;2;regated experience, I ask the permission to present to the Pnpun. Royal Commission tho followiug desiderata:-

[ 2719. J I. An interpreter should be. above all, au honest man, known and recommended by competent men.

[2720.J 2. He should be-given tho quality of a "Government servant," c2.refully chosen allil ap­ pointed by the Resident Magistrntc, after n. serious inquiry on his character, and he sl1onld receive a iixe

uccessary independence. [2721.J 3. In CtLSe of a wilful misinterpretation on his part, he should be lin.ble to public dismission, and to a peualty more effective than the forty-eight hours imprisonment provided in t be Regula.tiuu No. V. of

1890 ; and, in the absence of n.n ofiicin.l interpreter. [2722.J 4. Any accused nin.n, defundant, orwilness ought to be at liberty to produce hi& own interpreters, whom tLe court could not reject without serious

motives openly given 1.o the couccrned pa.rty. [2723.J 5. Nocasewhatever,inwhicl1a.wbiteman or his represent~1tive is implicated, ought lo be settled and determined, except by a court presided over by a professional magistrn1 e ; for, in serious cases, the ,·ery nature of the matter demands such a guarantee, and if t!ie cn.se is of a small importance, there is no incon­

venience in haYing its settlement postponed till the time of the professio1rnl magistrate's visit. [ 2 724.J 6. The same provision is highly desiraLle, even for cases in which only natives are implicated.

[2725.J 7. In fine disputes of nu.tives relative to tribes or villages' grounds ougbt to be settled only by the resident magistrate himself, so as to prevent, to a certain extent, the perpetual changes of limits

periodically brought b_y 11early every passing assistant resident magistrate, to the great disturbance of

peopJe. 2726. Q. lfove you eonsidere1l the qnestion of the prncticahility of the q11estions you have been referring to ?--A. Yes; bnt I rnnst confess there are serious

ditlic•nlties. I llid not sngge 't n, jnry, n.s I am afraid

it wo11lc1 he vc>ry c.littic1dt i11 some pa.rt: of New Gninea although it would be very dc::;irab!c if it could be

done. 2727. Q. Do yon con:-;illcr that the

272 '. 11/i-. Ilerbert.-111 the ca~c of white meu, tlo you think it would he pos 'ihlc in a, short time to

obtain a. white interpreter who could speak tbe na.tive language:-; and dialect~ in tni:3

  • ,·ho co11!<1 :1c:ik Ji:11µ;li~li ?-A . .. -o. I 1lii11l· Ii i' , ·i11l 11nti\'o might bl found, mid hr::, ·,Juld lie b ]1fl)I fll ill O

    0

    llt )' 11' t I' tl

    135 Rev. A, De Boismenu, 23rd Nov., l!J06.

    and other men as they happen a.long. Forty-eight hours' imprisonment, which is the pre ent law, is ridiculous. 27 29. The Witness.-! also wish to ~iYe my Yiews

    concerning the armed nati \·e con tabnlarv in the

    Mekeo district. Considering, on one band, the nature of the body of the armed native constabnlary which is compo. ed of men fre b from the utter:y primitive state of Papuan lire, aml on the other hand tho para­

    mount influence nati \·e pol icemen exercise oYer other native folk, mostly on account of their whole military n.ttire~ soldierly sty le a11d manners, one mav realize the many temptations and facilities such mei; ha.Ye to misuse their influence in dealing with timid nali ve

    males and females, to the profit of their own interests or passions. To call thii:; peril in question wonld argue a rash ignorance of native temper, and a complete faclc of local experience. In fact, oYer aud over again, natives of this district have been heard complaining of threats, exactions, v iolencos and vexations. In

    some villages, the gross miscondnc~ of certain police­ men towards native girlt; and women has created against the police deep fo0lings of hatred and fear, and not long ago, in many villages people used to fly into the bush ·with their women, and to conceal tbeir

    riche:i, at the approach of the police. To-day this use has not. entirely disappeared. I reme:mber having some time ago personally witnessed a striking examp!A of tho result of such misbehaviour in a large mountain village once flourishing and hospitabl8. A part.y of

    policemen, having to camp t liore on their way further inland, ab11sed the women an

    rnent s, where we found them foll of sorrow, disgusted and angry. Such exce$SOS come sometimes before tlte Court. They wonld• come rrn1ch oftener were it uot for rea1~ of rntaliation and for the instinctive dread

    of the naLives to take tho bol

    action against tl10 police. Several Government otficers have distinctly told us the extreme difficulty tney had to prevont acts of misconduct on the part of their men, aml. in very strong terms styled their brutal instincts. I think the European office:r in charge of tho native police contingent, onght to keep a very close

    watch over its language and dealing with the native population, and personally see the ·way in which his orders are carried out. The pre;;;ence an

    whou, for ; purpose of repression or vi sit,. an

    expecition has to be made among newly-known tnl;>es. Here the difficulty is a very serious one, and nothing ouaht to he l eft to hazard, as a failure always hns

    ar~vous and lastinrr consequences. vVell, nnfor- b ' 0 , tunately, failure in such attempts a:·o not ,rnfre.quent. Nay, 10 use the very terms of a l11gh olliccr rn the

    Colony, collision between people and pol ice "is almost the invariable result when a Government party vi.sits a, strong and Rtrange t.ribe:" Yet tbis result is by no means a fatal necessity, 111 mo:-.t cases

    it is dno to inexperience, impatience, or ueglect in tbe chief of the expedition, and bot I or tactic might have averte

    arrested, or when n. parley for :::nhmission and peace has to be entered into, it is a great mistake to send

    only native policemen with nalive interpreters forward on this errand. Tl.Jo European officer ought then personally to inteneno a1HI conduct the operattou. To act otherwise i:-. totally to ignore tbe Papuan

    appetites an

    n.bout in 1hc country , to lag lll 1lii11d , or to opcrat' ,•!'ithottl control. S11cli a negl<•et. c·uuse,l once a poor p li •emen t IJ r ,(1 ttn

    ·o h uc 'h t · r th.e p rpo

    of arresting nati ,·e · of ome village, the European officer stop.· t0 camp a.t four or five mile di tance from that village, and from there darts his black police alone to urpriso and invade the whole population,

    sometimes even at night time, he commits a very serious imprudence. This

    a very

    it i · to

    to stop a tight in a di~tant tribe~ sets out for his

    journey with his police contingent and carriers, he commits a great imprudence if, on his way, he lets his band get gradually increased by people of the

    villages he travels through. Such an escort, naturally eager ior eventual plunder, and may Le for revenge, will totally misconstrue, iu the eyes of tribes to be dealt with, the character and aim of the Government expedition . And it is hardly necessary to point out

    that, in the event of a repression, any real con t.rol over this excited and wild mob will be out of the

    quest.ion. 1' ot once in these past ton years we have heard of the host of excesses committed in such con­ ditions, and seen the spoils triumphantly carried off from ransacked villages. To these and other causes

    may be traced the so frequent failures of Government expeditions. The normal issue of those mismanaged raids is to leave in the visiteu districts, together

    with great excitement, a deep feeling of distrust and hatred, which betrays itself by a general.

    pnnic at the next approacli of the police, and

    also by bloody revenges when occasions occur.

    As to the white residents they have come to feel more insecure in these inland districts after than before such visits, and enrnestly to deprecate their return, at least in the same conditions. In conclusion, I shonld like to suggest, with all due respect, that the Government

    authorities are, perh::ips, too easily resigned to regard and accept the eventual misconduct of the police in the villages, anu bloody collisions between police and people as inevitable evils ; they seem to be, at leltst,

    a little over confidellt in the cleYerness of their

    officers and in the capacities of the native servants. Des:;:>ite the zeal and good will of all, in the latter the Papuan blood runs under tha military garb, and the inexperienced European lives also, and rnmetimes for a good long while, in the former. Both want of

    necessity a limited initiative aud a serious control. I think that. instructions onght to be given to Euro­ pean officers in charge of District .Native Constabu­ lary with the intent to impress upon them a deep

    sense of their responsibility for tho < on

    2730. Q. Is tho state of affairs which you descri·oe still going on ?-A. Not all the things. I speak of

    t n to fifteeu years' cxperie'bco of other missionaries and my own experience. They still exist in the

    main, and are possible nnder existing conditions. There is the ~ame dread of the police coming to the vil lages. As u, confirmation of certain of the state­ me;ts I have just made in regard to tlie interpreters and Assistant Resident Magistrates, I would like to

    my that a white man living with his two young boys 011 an isolated plantation hec:une one night aware of

    a 11atirn trying t0 introduce liim . elf into tho house under pretence of s arcliiug iL ! or 1na1erial pro,Jfs of a th~f't he ·nppo~eJ tb l1ny~ h· d •011unitted , ''he

    W tit mnn ) tlll l i111 "O out l'\.U(l COlllC l1•1cl· OU hii,

    rr l 01 tb 'U w·ng !' ia", lt ti uii.tiv 1

    Rev. A. D Boismt'nu ,

    23rd Nov. , 1006.

    136

    ha,in(J' ob tinate]y r efn etl to leave antl to lot him elf b

    premi .. e . The fellow evidently ,va not mtich

    injured, since on the following morn in()' ho came back quietly to make hi inquiry about the theft. How­ e,er, a ~hort time after, Dr. trong, the A ·sistant

    Re ident :ofaaistrate of thi , di trict, ent to the white man a summon to appear in Court for hn.vin(J' unlaw­ fully a aulted the native intrnder, and then the

    Assistant Re ·ident Magistrate's Court convicted ancl adjudged him to pay fine and co t . Now of all white people, includiug official person , who heard of the case, only one, narnely the Assi tant Resident 1\Iagis­

    trate, found the decision to be in keeping with a sane application of the law. All were rather severe in

    styling the improvi ed Magistrate, and that was the sole , auction gi\'eu to his ueecl, for tho accused man had let elapse the time within which nn n,ppeal might have been lodged. I wonder ho\v Australian people

    would look at this way of treating the right of self­ defence and property, and whn,t i~ to be done when such circumstances occur again. The next matter I deal with is the imprisonment of natives before trin,l.

    I think in most cases it is unnecessmy in this district, an

    means punishment to a native. They are unable to understand being kept in prison for months

    await'ing trial. This imprisonment before trial is often made extremely hard because ot its lasting some­ times a long period, owing to the infrequency of the Chief J uclicial Officer's visits, which means that

    people are sometimes kept six months in gaol.

    I think it is a bad preparation to a fair trial. It has

    the effect of kind of rnck-tortnre before judgment -on simple and weak people, the effect being that the native being kept in gaol will admit anything in the hope of getting out, notwithstanding his inno­

    cence. We have at present a case, that of tlie girl

    Lopo, which Father Fillodean will tell yon about. 2 7 3 1. Mr. Okeden.-Y ou were referring to the

    delays that occurred before trial. Is there any delay in dealing with summary cases ?-A. There have been celays, hut I cannot qnote any 110w. Jn my

    remarks I referred to delays in connexion with cases dealt with by the Central Court. 2732. The Chairman.-You said t.hat on occasions the officer in charge sends his police on to make arrests by surprise. Is that practice indulged in at tl1e

    present time ?-A. Yes, it has been done by the

    present Assistant Resident Magistrate, Dr. Strong. If you wish to have the name of tlie village I can

    give it. 2733. Q. What was the name of tbe village ?-A. Ioi, a.s it is named by Dr. Strong l1in1self. 2734. Q. When di

    sent bis men about 4 milns ahea

    occnrred at night time. I can quote another similar case. It occurred in tbe inland district of Mafulu in November of last year. Dr. Strong bll.d come tbere to stop a fight between two villages of the next tribe,

    uistant from the place where he was about four hours' march. Then hearing a fio·b.t going on in the :ther tribe he sent his police with their fire-arms to stop the fight, and stopped himself in the Mission Station where he was, which was a, very imprudent course.

    273 5. l,[r. Herbert.-Was there any lo of life on that dn,te ?-A. No. ·

    27 36. Q. Who was in charo·e of the police when they left Dr. Strong ?-A. A native. 27 37. T!te Cliairman.-Dicl this occnr at night?­ A. No, in the day time.

    2738 . .Mr. Jlerbert.-Wa. Dr. Strong ill on that occa ·ion ?-A. So. H e had ju. t arri"ved and may have been ill, but the act wa imprudent. 27 39. The witne s.-I wi. h to make a few O'eneral

    remarks on laml matter , and to point out i.he general neglect which con i ·t in procrastination in the sur­ vey of lands. We have ha

    applied for, the urvey of which had been delayed for several vears, an

    curiou case ·concerning a lease of 300 acres of land near Epa village. The lease for 2 5 years was granted in 190 r, and is not yet surveyed. The improvement condition was t.bat a sub::;tantial fence should be

    erected along the boundary, which condition was not fulfilled owing to tho lack of survey. Now

    the Land Office is asking for a sum of £ I 3

    for the rent accruing since 1901 of' this lease,

    which coulcl not be of any possible use to us,

    a s it was required for pastoral purposes, and

    could not be stocked wit.bout being fenced. I wrote to the Land Office lately to explain the situation. I have received no ans"ver. I wi:Sh to remark on the diversity of methods in various Assistant Resident

    Magistrates in this district. First, tnere is a per­

    petual change of limitation of native gronn

    tlio alternative severity and indifference in applying the Native Board Regulations, espeeially regarding the amelioration and cleaning of villages, and keep­ ing them in good order. The Government has

    adopted the policy of not interfering with the moral cnstoms of the untives, sueh as polygamy. Sir

    William McGregor, in the absence of regulations, advised in a special m:inner tho natives against this special custom. Tl1is practice or Sir William

    McGregor's bas been practieally dropped by sncceed­ ing Administrations. I think that iustea

    this regard. 2740. 11he Chairm.an.-With regard to yonr evi-dence on native constabulary yon li'tate: "Xay, to nse the very terms of a high officer in the Colcny, collision between people and police is almost the invariable result when a Government party visits a strong and strange tribe.') Would you give me the name of that official ?-A. It is in a private letter.

    Will you insist ? 27,p. Q. I would paint out that as the quotation is made I must realJy ask you to say who the official is ?-A. I am willing to give tho ni:1me if you

    insist. 2742. Q. I must ask yon for it ?-A. It was

    Captain Hn,rton. 2743. Q. I understand that, this station was very m1healthy some years ago ?-A. Yes. 2744. Q. I see you now have catt.Je running here. Is the place any healthier n,::iw than it was ?-.A.

    Yes, certainly ; that I think i due to tlie fact that

    the cattle have eaten down the grass low, and of

    conr ·e to tlie fresh food and milk with which they supply us. 2745. Q. How many cattle hn,Ye yon here ?-A. About 8 bor e::i n,nd 123 horned cattle on this

    island. 2746. Q. How many inlancl ?-A. About 1co horned cattle auu about 40 hor ·e ·. 27+7. Q. Do yon find tliat both hor ·e ~ and cattle

    thriYe ?-A. Ye , fairly well. We have no pecial

    di ea e yet.

    2 74-8. Q. I unc.let tantl you are expcrimen ting

    with beep at yonr mountain tation about 45 mile inlanJ as tbe crow tlie . Are the result encoura(J'ing? -A. Yes, so for. It j 'et only a rna.11 experi-

    ment.

    137 Rev. AI0x. Fillodea.u, 23rd Nov., 1906.

    z 7 49. Q. How far is that, tation inland by road'! -A. About 90 mile . z 7 5 o. Q. Is there any goo

    journey from here, I.nit it i ~ extremely ditiicnlt' of access.

    THE REVEREND FATHER ALEXANDER FILLODEAU

    was sworn anu examined, as follows :-27 5 I. :Plie Chairman.-,vhat is your narnc ?-.A. Alexander Fillotleau. I am a prie~t of the Sacreu Heart Mission.

    2752. Q. Can you give the Commission any evi­ dence in regard to the case of the girl Lopo ?-A. I would ask permission from the Commission to reau tvrn letters which I have written on the case to

    Judge Murray which will explain the case.

    Yule Island, 18th N-0vember, 1906.

    YOUR HOKOUR,

    I take the liberty of submitting to Your Honour these

    few remarks re Lopo. vVhen I came back from v\T oodlark and Samarni on the 3rd of February last, I heard at Yule Island that Dr.

    Strong, 'having been at Amo Amo, had let his police a.Jone ru11 wild to that village during the night, and that women had been indecently assaulted. The Right Rev. Dr. de Boismenu, coadjutor Bishop, t-0ld

    me that he had received a letter from Father Vitale on

    that subject, and that he had already advised Mr.

    Bramel!, the magistrate of the district. About the middle -0f the same month I went to · Amo

    Amo myself, and the natives told me that they had been taken by surprise during their sleep, that four women and five girls had been taken down from their houses abso­ lutely naked, and forced , to walk in the middle of · the

    village, that two girls had been especially abused by

    Kaema and another police, whose name they did not

    kr.ow. On the 27th of February, I met Ngapuan, the V.C.

    of Ifi-ifu, who told me, in the presence of Father van

    Goethem, that the police who had abused Lopo was

    Kaema. When that girl cried out to her father, saying,

    " Iou e afia," the name of Kaema was pronounced, and

    this is why she remained persuaded that Kaema was the police who had ,, __ .. dted her.

    Dr. Strong told me once that we missionaries had pre­ judices against his police. To show that we had no

    prejudices, I told him in conversation private what had happened in the village of Amo Amo, and being asked for the name of the guilty policeman, I gave the name

    of Kaema. In spite of my protest against using my

    pivate conversation for a public action, Dr. Strong

    charged Kaema. I had told him that the Amo Amo

    people, being but lately in direct contact with the Go­

    vernment, were very shy, that they would not dare to

    speak out the truth in a public inquiry, that they would

    very likely deny the facts from beginning to end, tha1 the means to get the truth was through private inquiries. Dr. Strong hastened to make a public inquiry, and to his

    surprise and mine, the natives spoke what they knew. During that inquiry, to ·which I was present, Lopo

    said that she had been indecent! y assaulted by K aema, but Kaema denied the fact, and said he thought it was

    Kou. Here it was said that Paicie, a man of Rarai, was with

    Kou when the girl was assaulted. Dr. Strong left for Rarai, where he handcuffed Paicie for reasons unknown, and asked him afterwards to give evidence. Paicie declared that the policeman guilty was

    not Kaema, but Kou, and Lopo realized that she had

    made a mistake concerning the man, and she no longer ·.1ccused Kaem . She is now in custody, charged for perjury. After

    what I know of her, after what she said to me, I can

    affirm that she ha'l no intention of deceiving; she never

    asked Dr. Strong to punish Kaema; instead of asking for a complaint to be made against the police she was always reluctant; she spoke simplv because Dr. Stron~ forced her to speak, and threatened her with Kairoku if she did not speak. The truth . he poke as she knew it; she

    never knowingly :rncl wilfully said that which was n ot true; once she realized the man guiltv was Kou, she

    no longer said it was Kaema.

    Now, I was a witne s myself that Dr. Strong, when it

    suit- his purposes, is not anxious for the truth, lrnt r~ther

    the opposite, anxious for putting out the lamp which

    might give still too much light. Havi~1g hoped at Amo Amo that Lopo would deny

    everythmg, and so would clear his police from a tain

    att~c?ed to himself, :rnd being frustrated, he handcuffed Pa1_c1e, the man he kx_iew to be a witness against his

    police; he handcuffed h rm immediately before a king him to give evidence. This was of nature to intimidate the

    witnes , and does not seem to have been for anv other

    purpose, for the man was released immediately. , To put now in gaol a girl who has been indecentlv

    assaulted by a policeman, a girl who is pursuaded tha't

    she is impri oned for having spoken the truth against

    the police, is of nature to frighten her so much as to

    make her peak a lie in the future.

    " ' hen Kaema was tried at Amo Amo, a false inter­

    pretation was given by Kalama, and I asked Your Honour the pennis ion to correct it. Dr. trong, who should

    haYe been pleased to see a false interpretation corrected ~a,-e i~ns -of disappointment, and asked Lopo to be ques'. t1cned m a langu:i.ge which is not her own, but which I

    would not have understood, so that false interpretati0'11s could have been given freely. Kalama, since, has been

    mad·e V.C. at Olipeana. The result of Lopo having been in custody will be

    now that the police committing :my crime of that sort

    nobody will dare to speak, and Dr. Strong himself, who hn.s not exactly a good name, will be able to stop the

    complaints of gagged natives, who beaan to say that he was taking curios from them without paying at all. Having nothing in view but to help an innocent in

    bringing out the truth, I remain, 0 f Your Honour,

    The most obedient servant, A. M. FILLODEAU, M., S.H.

    P.S.-The village I call by the name of Amo Amo is

    the same village Dr. Strong calls by the name of Ioi.

    Ioi is the name of the river, on the banks of which

    that village is situated. A. M. FruonEAU, M., S.H.

    Yule Island, 22nd November, 1906.

    ~eing permitte_d by Dr. Strong lo rea

    e:1dence on "."h1ch 'he committed Lopo to the Central C?u~t for peIJury, I read that Lopo pl,eaded guilty, ad­ m1tti?g to have spoken a lie against Kaema. vV1th Dr_. Strong's pen~ission, I spoke with Lopo, and ~sked her if she had adm1tted having spoken a lie. She

    wn.s ii;, gre'.lt ·excitement, and all I could get from her

    was, I have not deceived-a la pifoae." When I

    pressed her she said simply : (c People \£ Rarai have

    cl_eceived n,e, saying at first that the man was called

    I~aema, ancl saying afterwards that he was called Kou." I have some reasons to suspect the interpretation given to Dr. Strong, and therefore I would like to know wh.1t

    ,rnrds . she used when she pleaded guilty, in order to

    know 1£ she really did. The word fia, for instance,

    means ~s well ~o be deceived and to deceive, whilst the word pzfoge which I used means, really, to speak a lie. Her contracEctions seem to me more apparent than

    real. She said first that it was dark, she did not see the

    man, and this is the truth; she remained silent for a

    moment, and she would not have spoken any further if

    she had not been pressed. When threateneq with Kairoku if she did not speak, and speak the whole truth, she crave the name of Kaema. She said what she believed t; be

    the truth, and what 1 believed myself. Dr. Strong should have been aware that she had never seen ~aema, no more than any other policeman. I had

    ~?Id hun l:::e~ore-and that her evidence could be only this : -1\ ~nan _ w1t1,\ clo!hes on assaulted me indecently." When Pa1c1e .said, It 1s Kou I have seen with m y own eJes"

    she said, " It is Kou,'' and what leads Dr. Stron.;. to

    charge her for perjury is a sign to me that she wd's in

    good faith unwilling to charge an innocent man. _Now, I have !:e~n myself that she answered questions without understandmg at all what she h ad been asked

    so she said : "I do not know the Mekeo language," and'. howe,:er, the_ Mekeo lan~uage is her own language. It 1s pos 1ble that bemg asked by Dr. Strona if she

    had deceived, giving the name of Kaema first band the

    name of Kou afterw:i.rds, she answered : 'cc I have

    deceived, " using a word which would not mean anything else but what she told me afterwards: "I haYe been

    deceived." Considering that a n injustice i clone, and that charg­

    ing - her for perjury is simpl, calculated to gag the

    Rev. Alex. Fillocleau, 23rd Jov., 1906.

    -n _!)

    native who mav ha,·e compl.lint again t the police, I

    beg of your Honour to be al lowed to defend her, and,

    at the ·Hne time to give evidence on her behalf if neces-sary. I remain, 0 f Your Honour,

    The mo_t obedient sen·ant, A. M. FILLODEAU.

    27 ;3. J[r. 1IerlJe1·t.-II0w iong hn. that girl Leen in gaol awaiting trial ?-A. Auout ten days. 2 7 5+· Q. Wbcn 1 his alleged 011trage on Lopo took place who wa in personal com11uu1

    police ?-A. A native. 2755. Q. Was thue any Emop an in charge?­ A . .,.o.

    2756. Q. What led to th<> poli ·e vi,.:iting the

    vill:tge on that occasion ?-A. Dr. St1ong l.iad in hiti mind to visit the district, and on his wny he learnt that the Ioi people had stolen potatoes in l he garden of Orn, and sent the police to 1he Ioi Tillage,

    remaining him ·elf at Inawafaga, four miles behind the police. Ile bad made no previous inquiry. 2 7 ~7. Q. If no inquiry hacl been held wl.iy were

    t e police despatched to Ioi ?-A. I

    have learnt this from the natives. Being on the

    bank of the River Kuinimaipa last July, the people of Kercpi, wbo had given signs of hostility in the mornin()' came about twelve o'clock to mu.ke peace, whilst t.iie people of Amenofo were st ill hostile. We were bouud for their village, thn,t is Dr .. Strong,

    myself antl tlie people, and aL that moment Dr.

    StronJ told me, "Should we go then to Kercpi, I will tell tlte police to go over if they can au

    mird1t kill more people than it is neccss'ary." He did no; reply at all, hut clecided to ea.mp by tho river,

    and the

    2758. Q. How far is that village from here?­ A. About 4-3 miles in a straight line ; it is three

    miles north of Mouut Yule. I disagreed with the

    Doctor, as I thought he was too anxious to shoot the natives after they desired peace.

    (Trrn Co:\11111ss10N 11rnT ON BOARU Trrn GovEHN­ MENT STEAl[ YACHT •" 1\.lEJlRlI~ ENGLA~D" AT

    Yuu: ISLA.ND.)

    WALTER IliERSH STR0NG

    ·was sworn and examined, as follows:-27 ~9. 'l1he Chairman.--Whnt is your name?­ .A. Walter :Morsh Strong. I am Assistant Resident Magistrate of the Mekeo district of the Central

    Division. •

    2760. Q. What ~re your

    proper order. I have never hecn informell, lrnt I

    take it thn,t, I shonlJ. give all tlte help 1 ,ea onably

    cau to any white people in tlic di ·trirL . .

    2761. Q . .'11ppo. c you ha

    conrse would yon pnrsne ?-.A. I f'-hould ad vise the Resident :i\Iagi rrate at Port 1\Iore~by and n~k wlrnt I shonld do. 2762. Q. Assnmc tlia,t y011 li:tV(' rc'erirnd n r pl}

    from P rt for<.' ·by tlrnt yo11 nre fq 11:sc yo11r nwu

    ju crm nt aud e tll ti matt r in yo111· own w11, ?

    A. I. i,hrnkl try 1wd llt ,. into •0111m11nicotio willi t n t've , n l flt tl u h ir u II tu '" ·, I e"n' :

    it' it were 20 or 30 mile · away, there would be a

    very ' trong probability that the account I l1onlJ

    receive here wa not the true account. 2761. Q. A ·-;tune that you :receiYed a reply tating that tl;i -· feud actuallv existe

    of the people who were iu the wrong. I ·hou.ld try

    nnd get round their village before they had t11ne to run away. I shoul

    2764. Q. Am I to understand from that that you would give au order of that character to a non-eo.m­ missionetl officer ?-A. I wonl

    2765. (J. Then, in cases of this sort, yon always commaml your police pcr::;onall_y ?-A. There has only Leen one occasion so far under which these

    cireurnstances wou!J ttpply, that is, that they hu.ve been fighting with people nnder Government influ­ ence. On that occasion I wns with the police, lead­ ing right np to the stockade.

    2766 . ..1.llr. He1·bert.-vVLat village was that?­ A. Pitsoko, near Mafulu. 2767. Q. What 1Htppcncd then ?---.A. vVe got up to the stockade and two police went one side and

    another police wenL to the other, and one wc11t with me towards the usual entrance to the stockade. I 81opped a moment to order some uatiYe8 to bring up tomahawks. This was done, and I followed one

    policeman through three or four stockades. After pai;ising two or three stockades the policemnn caltetl my atteution to a wound in l1is foot which had Geen ea.used through his stcppiug on one of the pointed sticks they put in the }O:ttJ1. About the same time I heard several shot::; fire1l. I tlien went on into the

    village and fonnd a native lying on the gronnd. I

    examined him, and found Lha.t he bad been shot from before': 2768. Q. When was that?-A. It is a little more tba1~ a year ago.

    z 769. Q. \Vere yon satisfied on ti.mt occas1011 that the man was shot of necessity ?-A. Yes, I am quite satisfied in my owu mind. 2 770 . . Q. Who shot him ?-A. On that occasion

    the police reported to me that a ma,n ·was sbot tmtside the v~llagc, and lte was shot by a l\f am bare police­ man, Gigida, and a man inside tbe village by Con· stable Koai. I was satisfied that they were shot of necessity.

    277 I. Q. Do you remember visiting a village last July in company with Father Fillodeau ?-A. Yes, about that time. 2772. Q. There had been a quarrel ?-.A. Not in the village which I visited wir Ii Fatlier Fillodeau. I visited Ioi on two or tbree oecasiom.

    2773. Q. Do yon remember being- at 1he Hirnr Kniuimaipn with Father Fillodean ?-.A. I do not kuow it hy that name. I n pect it to be a branch of

    the Lakekamu River. 277+. (J. In Jnly la~t ?-A. It was about that time; ,June or ,July. 277 5. (j. Di

    camp that 1lay to nrnl·e pea •e ?-A. They came to onr camp in a perf ·hly peacabl' and frien

    lio:-tility with them. 2776. (J. Wb re \V('l'e y,111 going th n ?-.. t. I lHul nn·au~i>d wit! Fat It<•· Fill0dc:111. ii pr:ietieal,1 , to t1·.v :w

    oul l n f 1 pl .

    139 W. M. Strong, 23rd Nov., 1906.

    2 777. Q. Did yon go to the Amanofo dllnge ?-A.

    I went to a small village which I believed to be

    a branch of the Am::mofo Yillage.

    2778. Q. Did you go the ame clay a s the villagers came to your camp ?-A No, we camped that night a.cross the river.

    2779. Q. Did you have any difficulty wiih the natives of Amanofo when you got there ?-A. We had great difficulty in getting them to come and

    make friends. We had nothing in the way of

    ostility in the slightest degree. 2780. Q. Diel you make friends ?-A. We made friends.

    2781. Q. Did you on the day before when in camp propose to send your police to take the Amauofo village ?-A. No, I uever proposed to send my police to Amanofo alone without my being with them.

    2782. Q. Did you say to Father Fillodeau­

    " Should we go then to Kerepi, I will tell the police to go over if they ca.n and take the village of

    Amanofo? "-A. No, I did not. 2783. Q. Diel you mako any proposition to that effect ?-A. No.

    2i84. Q. Did Father Fillodcau say to you-" But, Doctor, are yon not afraid that your police alone might kill more people than it is micesfary? "-A. I have no recollection of }'ather Fiilocleau saying that.

    2785. Q. Will you say he did not sa,y it?-A. I

    would not at this length of time be prepa1ed to say he did not say it. ·

    2786. Q. If be c"iitl say it, was it necessary or

    proper on your part to send on your police alone?­ A. I must emphatically say it was not. 2787. Q. Have you e~er sent your police into a hostile village withont nccompanyiog them ?-A. I htLVe never done so.

    2788. Q. Have yon ever sent your police to

    surprise a village or to capture a prisoner without accompanying them personally ?-11. On one occasion I ha,e Llone so into a village which was not com­ pletely under Government couirol, but it was in no sense a hostile village- that is there was no chance of the inhabitants fighting, but considerable chance of

    their running away. 2789. Q. When was that ?-.A. The end of last December. It was the village Ioi.

    2790. Q. What were they sent for ?-A. They were sent by me to catch certain natives who had robbed the gardens of Onru with clubs and spears.

    2791, Q. Did vou know the names of the natives to be arrested ?--A. I had good reasons for believing -i,hat the whole of Ioi bad robbecl the Oaru gardens.

    2 792. Q. Whom did you instruct your police to

    Hrest ?-A. The entire village. 2793. Q. Of how many persons?:- A. I s~onld Lhink there were probably abont thirty, that 1s to catch who they could.

    1.794. Q. ,vhere were yon ?-A. I was camped at Inavafanga. 2795. Q. How far from this village of Ioi ?-A. About three hours walk. •

    2796. Q. What dicl the police do at Ioi? - A.

    They weut to Ioi and got every one in Ioi village dunno- tbe night. They learnt that some more

    nauvis of Ioi were camped at some sago near. They sLwoeqnently snrpri ed the people who were camped tbere, n.nd al ~o n1'rested them. 2. 7q7, 0 . \Vlmt did tl lC'.' tl o witli tlt e peopl e tli y

    I 'l' Gs t tl ( A . r ' hey were nil lirot1ghL to Ioi vllh1ge .

    T it 1 ,c ho • t ,1 tb iVOrnen ·1

    another house, which had at Jen.st one lamp in it. Early next morning I arrived. 2798. Q. How many police were in the capturing party ?-A. Nine of the armed police. In addition to that certain village police went-about five, ancl

    probably one or two chief::; whom I recognised as natives-reliable men. 2799. Q. Under whose command were they ?-A. Lance-Corporal Aihiketa, in the absence of Corporal

    Sefa, who was ill with fever, and remained with me. 2800. Q. Were any complaints made by the vil­ lagers against the police 1-.A. The villagers bave made no complaints to me a bont the police. Shortly after the villagers complained that some native carriers

    had stolen mnny things from their houses. These men I had not anthorizecl to accompany the police. In addition, Father Fillodeau, more than Bix

    months afterwards, while I was near Amanofo, told me that Constable Kaima bad raped a native woman of Ioi, and that another constable, whose name we dicl not know, had raped another woman. He in­ formed me also that it was not an official complaint, and, when I said I should charge Kaima with the crime, he sai

    2801. Q. Diel he not ask yon to make personal

    inquiries int0 the facts before taking the matter into court ?-.A. I have no recollection of his doing so, but would not like to say he

    . spoke a groat deal about it. 2802. Q. Whatdid you do?-.A. Whenigot back to loi I charged Kaima with the crime, and took evidence at Ioi. At Ioi I remanded Ka1ma in custody, and

    treated him as a prisoner. Either the same day or the following day I went on with the case at Karni. I committed Kaima to the Central Court, but released him from custody.

    2803. Q. What was the girl's name ?-·A. Lopo. 2804. Q. Who was her father ?-.A. Pengiamo. 2805. Q. Did you examine him ?-A. Yes. 2.806. Q. vVhcre ?-A. To the best of my recollec­ tion at Ioi.

    2807. Did you handcuff him before you examined him ?--.A.. I dill not hanclcuff Pengiamo at all. 2808. Q. Did you handcuff any witnesses before or during examination ?-A. To tbe best of my

    recollection neither Lefore or during examination. I am pretty convinced in my own mind that I did not. There was one native whom I handcuffed a quarter of an hour after the case was .finis bed.

    2809. Q. Who was that ?-A. Vaiya. He was a native of Rarai, and was examined there. 2810. Q. Why was he handcuffed ?-A. A. native of Ioi-I believe Pengiamo-informed me that when

    the Ioi people were arrested Vaiya had stolen a pig net. of his, and the pig net was at that moment in

    Vaiya's house. I said we could easily go and see. I told Vaiya not to speak to any one in the house.

    ,v-hen we got near the honse there was a woman sitting on the verandah. Vaiya spoke to the woman. I ordered a policeman to put handcuffs on Vaiya, and to tell the woman not to move. I then told Pengiamo to go and find his pig net in the house. He looked and said it was not there. I cautioned Vaiya and

    orJ.erecl him to be released. 28 Ir. Q. Constable Kaima was acquitted at the Central Court ?-A. Yes. 28 I 2. Q. And tho girl Lopo is now committed for perjury ?-A. Yes. I would like to add that the in­ <]uiry at the second court Jointed to the fact t hat ex­ con stablA Kon, , ' ho hn

    tlmt ni gs ht. I i :,1 n d 11, warn llt fir I ou'i; t '!'est, , n 1

    1 ·d tl ·e id nt tig' r ' l\e ul I O Rr.

    W. . Strong,

    23rd Nov., 1906.

    140

    Kon :wd senc1 him to m I have committed Kon for indecent a ~ ault, and he i now awaitino- trial nt the entral ourt.

    2813. Q. Do you not think that all thi ' tronblo

    would hav been aved if yon hatl accompanied your police to Ioi ?-A. Thi pnrtirular trouble wonhl doubtle s not have ari en if I had accompanied the police both to Ioi and to the . ago, but tl1e probability

    is that no Ioi people would have been arrei3tt>d, be­ cause I do not think that I, or any other white ma11, crmld surpri ·e a native village in the dark, and I have no doubt the Ioi people would have run ,rway. I

    would further like to add that I think that all this

    trouble could havf3 been saved if tbe Reverend Father Fillodeau had informed me of the complaints as soon as lie heard of them. I could then Imm investigated the ca ·e at once, and senteucod Kou myself for a

    trifling indecent assault if I had found him guilty.

    2814. Q. Assuming tho facts allegetl against the constable of police be true, your presence would have prevented the occurrence ?-A. Yes; but I could not have remained at Joi Yillnge and gone to the sago

    place too. 28 I 5. Q. Where was tho rape alleged to have

    taken place ?-A. On tho road coming from the sago place to the Joi. I "-ish to at.!J that, I am satisfied

    110 actual rape took place, nor any attempt to rape. Jt is possible that ex-constable Kou put bis hands on Lopo's private parts as sbe was climbing a tree. I take it that the ju

    questions uow that Kou is committed to the Central Court. 2816. Q. Then you thiuk that Lopo inadvertently charged the wrong man ?-A. I think she deliberately charged the wrong man. I think she clitl not kuow

    the right man, and knew she did not know the rigbt rnan, and so she deliberately charged Kairna. At one time she most positively sai

    2817. Q. Yon have good grouncls for stating yon believe Kou committed this minor assault ?-A He has not tolJ me, but I belieYe it for other reasons. I and other officers believe him a man of bad character,

    aud evidence given berore me points to Kon being tho culprit if an assault was committed. 2 8 1 8. Q. Do you propose to nrnko tluit e vi donce known to tho court on tho trial of Lopo for perjury ? -A. I intend putting :ill that evidence before tho .Judge. l lu1Ye committed Lopo because I think the

    evidence warrants it. I ma,y add thnt she pleaded guilt.y, but I would not like to press that point, be­ cause the nati \'eS often confnsc a mistake with a wil­ ful lie. I take i, that it will be for l he J ndge to

    either quash the committal, c01wict Lopo, or bring in a verdict of not guilty. I simply looked at the

    matter as I should any court case, and I think it im­ portant to puuish perjury. when. one Gan,. becat~se it is very difficult to be certam that 1t really 1 · perJury, and not a mistake either on tho part of the witnesses

    or on the part of the interpreters. 2819. Q. Then holding that opinion you mu t

    think that a term of forty-eight hours' imprisonment as a, punishment for wrong interpretation in a

    marristratc's court is far too lenient ?--A. For telling lies 0 in a native magistrate's court the punishment i::; seven clays' imprisonment, and that i pro IJaLly too short. Many circumstances may come in, and either

    make the offence less or greater. E vcn in the native magistrate's conrt one can C'Ommit for perjury to tho Central Conrt if one think · the case of sufficient im-portance.

    :z:820. The Cliairman.-fo Hw1 all you wish to

    say ?-A. Yes.

    THIRTY-FIFTH DAY.

    SATCRDAY, 1.4TII NOVEl\IBER, 1906.

    (Tm~ Co:mn s10N 1\IE.T ON BOARD THE G ovERN­ MENT STEAl\I YACHT ':MERRIE E~GLAND," AT

    KEnEMA.)

    Present:

    Colonel tho Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., }f.L.C. (Cbairman) ; W. E. Parry-Okedeo, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. J ustico C. E. Herbert,

    Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

    HE:\'"IlY LYSAGHT GRIFFrn

    wa,s s"·orn and examined, as follows:-2820A. The Chairman.-What is your name ?-A. Henry Lysaght Griffin. I am Resident Magistrate of the Gnlf Division. I was in the Royal Artillery for seventeen years. I returned with the rank of

    Captain. I served in South Africa. I reooi ved the

    Distinguished Service Or

    the ranges here. There is one between the Nabo

    and Albert which must be 8 or 10 miles wide.

    Cocoanuts grow well on the coast line, bnt the sea is enaroacb.ing very much. Beyond that there are ·sago swamps. [282oc.J The country is closely

    populated by natives, and there are no i::igns of

    decadence. I attribute this to the fact that they keep np the t1ribal initiation ceremonies, and the fact that tho boys are kept in do bus under strict discipline, and the oid men impress upon them the various customs

    of the village, and taught to sacrifice their personal inclinations to the interest of t.he tribe. They are

    kept in the do bus from the age of five to eight to the period of pubity, which wit.h them is between fifteen and seventeen. They are taught some sort of

    morality, and that casual fornication is not a aood thing, because if .a few women get immoral it i: not for the good oE the tribe. If a woman

    mother, because they say there is no one to support the child, and, for another thing, because the child is supposed to haze been responsible for the illness of its mother, and therefore should die. [ 2820D. J

    There is practically no w bite settlement in this

    Division. In tbe event of white settlement taking place, I think tho natives would work on plantations here. They are not n.n energetic race, as food is so

    plentiful. The snpply of sago i::; unexhaustible.

    They would, I tiiink, sign on for a sbort period.

    [ 2820E. J I am iu favour of taxing the natiYes, either

    by cash, kind, or forced labour, but I realize it would have to be very thoroughly gone into before any

    scheme was decided, ancl the scheme might have to be ,lifferent in different parts of the country. I think it would be wise to give the natives the option of the way t?e tax s_houl

    les ' d1fficnlty rn collectmg tho tax by

    properly trained, would make effective soldiers ?-A. Nothing like ns good a the I.Den iu the Xorthern

    Divi. iou. Tho ·e are Orokola boys. 'l'b.e Kiwai

    boy woulli be very goocl a a .·oldier, but he would have to have a very tight hancl over him. Hi' inclina­ tions are be tial. I have no uouht as to the conraae

    of the native: of the Northern Divi ion. 0

    2820G. Q. Snppo ·in•r it wer' ne ·e8 ary for yon to snrpri ·c :1 ho tile villn.ge or to captnre ~ome criminal· who might he in a village under Government control,

    141 A. B. Jiear, 26th Nov., 190fl.

    h1eh 1-il.. If 1 thought there wa going to be any fighting I certainly hould be with them. They need restraining, as when they get excited they will fire off every cartridae.

    2820n. Q. I suppo e there is always a danger, if

    not under the command of white officers, of some of the police interfering with some of the women ?-A. Yes. It is a very difficult thing to get a really good non-commi~sioned officer among the native police,

    owing to his training in his village, where every one is on the same level. If you did m,t go with your

    meu they would only put the one construction on it­ tha,t is, that you were afraid. I haYe not fired a shot during the whole time I have been in the country. l have always tried the suavite1· in 1hoclo, and found it

    excellent. [28201.J I consider that Papua is a

    much-maligned country as regards climate. As un­ developed tropical countries go, it is extremely

    healthy, an

    to state that I knew Captai11 Barton first in I 889,

    when we soldiered together in Sierra Leone. I look upon it as a privilege to serve in any capacity in any Service in which he is serving. Apart from being one of the most charming and best. rate men I know, I thir.1.k he is one of the straightest men in or out of the ~ervice, and absolutely incapable of doing a dirty

    action or having a mean thon~ht.

    THIRTY-SIXTH DAY.

    MONDAY, 26T1:1 NOVEMBER, 1906.

    (THE COl\11\1:ISSJON l\IET AT THE GOVERNMENT STATION, DArrn, ·WESTERN DrvrsION.)

    Present:

    Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman) ; VV. E. P:irry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O. Mr. Jnstice C. E. Herbert.

    Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

    ARMY HENRY JIEAR, was sworn and examined, as follows :-282 r. :Fhe Cl,airman.--What is your name ?-A. Army Henry ,hear. I arn Resident Magistrate of the Western Division. I have been in New Guinea for six years and ten months.

    2822. Q. How Jong have yon been Resident

    Magistrate of the Western Division ?-A. Five years and eight months. 2 82 3. Q. What are the possibilities for tropical

    ttgriculture in this Division ?-A. With the exception of suaar they are not too great. 28~4-. Q. Have yon been far into the interior?­ A. At one point I have been 160 miles from the

    coast at the extreme western part of the Division, and I have been in several places 60 miles from

    tbe coast. 282 5. Q. So that beyond those clistances you can aive no opinion ?-A. No, not inland. b 2826. Q. Could yon give the comparative areas of

    the good land that you have passed througb. ?-A. I should say that there i at least a fifth part of this

    division on which it would be pos~ible to grow sugar, that is the .part I know of.

    2827. Q. What Woti1u. he the character of the lialance of the land tbat you know of ?-A. Largely ~ago swamp, cane brake, pandanus, mangrove swamp, and very inferior forest country.

    2828. Q. Is tile sugar cane indigenous to the place of good quality ?-A. No, it is generally of a poor qualit.y. 2829. Q. Do you know itnytbiog about Queensland

    sugar Janel ?-A. Yes. 28 30. Q. How would the land here compare with the Queensland sugar land ?-.A It is inferior in

    every respect to any Queensland sugar land I know. My experience is confined to this Division. 283 r. Q. Do you consider that there is any good country suitable for ru,ising horses an

    Division ?-A. There is comparatively little country t,lrnt in Queensland would be termed poor cattle country. It would

    any other. 2832. (J. Do you know anything about timber?­ I know something about hardwoods. 2833. Q. Do you think 1here is enongh hardwoocl

    in the country that yon know of to slart an export industry ?-A. :No, there is not, not good hardwoods. There is timber that would be excellent for sleepers, but it is in insufficient quantities.

    2834. Q. In the event of sugar lands being taken up in this Division, would it ho possible to get local native labour to work them ?-A. There is labour available. The greater area of what I think the best

    sugar land here is in a thinly populated tlistrict, ancl the lab0ur would have to be brought from other parts of the Division. :83 5. Q. By this means

    sufficient la.bour here to keep up a sugar industry such as you have in Queensland, and where they use many thousands of labourers. 2836. Q. Do you find the nativas in this Division hostile to white men ?-A. Generally speaking they are particularly friendly.

    2837. Q. Then you do not think the natives would be any bar to white settlement ?-A. No. It takes very little to bring the natives under GoYernment in­ fluence in this Division.

    2838. Q. Suppose there was an intertribal trouble in your Division, and you had to go out ancl settle it, possibly by surrounding the village in the night, what would be your course of action ?-A. It would be impossible to ·surround a village at night in this

    Division. I have always to bear in mind what has happened. If I know, for instance, that an actual

    offence has taken place, I go to the village and en-1leavour to get the priucipal men together and explain to them that an offence has Geen committed, and I want the offender delivered up. .At times this is

    pay the village another visit. 28 39. Q. Do you always go personally ?-A. If there has been trouble I always pay the first visit

    personally. 2840. Q. Supposing you find it necessary to make an armed demonstration. Have you always been up with your men personally ?-A. I was certainly there when I have made an armed demonstration. There have been occasions when my police have chased natives into the bush, but men with clothes and

    trappings conld not do that. 284-1. Q. Then on occasions such as that who

    would be in charge of the Native Police ?-A. The Sergeant or Corporal. 2842. Q. Do you consider that there is a certain :i'mo-qnt of danger in allowing Native Police to get from under your personal direction, that is danger

    ti. Jieat, 2Gth NoT., moo.

    from u in{!' th •ir u1'1i1' iucli · •rimi11atel , nnd in the ca e of women from mvi. hing 1h ;n ?-A. Yet-:,

    there is a light dauger if they wcr allowed out of

    hand for evernl

    men out of my si~ht for more tlrnu n.11 h our or two, and then to give them explicit directions nrnl

    infltructions. 284 3. Q. Then is tl1e Commi ·. ion to under tand that you con8i

    2844. J.lftr. JJerbert.-And to have one at times is impo siule ?-A. Y c5, particularly in 1his distri,..t where we have only one officer, alld also owing to the natnre or t lie C"onntry .

    28+5· :I.1/;,e Chairman.-lfave many rn1tives been killetl since yon have been in cl1nrge of this Division in fights with Government parties ?-A. Yes, there have been :-ieveral inst:rnees of uatives being killed.

    2846. Q. Have these instances been when yon were in command ?-A. In every instance ·when I was in command. 2847. Mr. Jlerbert.-In immediate command ?­ A. With one exception, ye::;, and that was when I was prett.y well a mile away wben the mau was

    killed. 2848. M1·. Oheden.-Some papers have come into the hands of 1he Commissioners in connexion with a man mtmed Dainu. There was nothing to explain

    how the recruit came into a position to shoot the

    man ?-A. We were endeavouring to arrest prisoners at that particular place, an<.l this man Dai nu was one of a party of four in charge of a non-commissioned officer, and the man who was shot fired two arrows at him, and he shot him at very close quarters. He

    was some little distance away from the other man, some 2co yards. They were scouring around some sago country. 2849. Q. When your sergeant returned did he

    report any other shot ?-A. No, he did not., and I have never ascertained any who were shot. 2850. Q. Ha::; not the body of another man been found snbsequently ?-A. No.

    28 5 I. Q. Referring to a man nnmed Umi who was being deported arainst hi8 will. ·when did you first become aware that he had a desire to remain here?­ A. The day previous to the one he should have· left

    here, after I had given instructions for the man to be taken on board the Merrie England amt taken to his village. 2852. Q. How did you become aware that he

    desired to remain ?-The Suh-Collector of Customs informed me that he did not wish to go. 2853. Q. He was a prisoner ?-A. He was a time-expired prisoner.

    2854. Q. Where was he ai thetime?-A. I believe he was on shore at Darn. He had been taken to the Merrie England and brought ashore again by tbe sub-collector, who told rue he did not wish 10 g o.

    2855. Q. DiLl he remain ashore then ?-A. Yes. I gave the sub-collector instructions to take him back on to the steamer, and the sub-collector told me that the boy said if he took him back Le would jnmp

    overboard. He aid he was afraid to go home as he would be killed. I told the sub-collector to take

    care he did not jnmp overboard, and if necessary he was to be l!andcuffed. I may say that there was a

    sitting of the Central Court being held, and Judge Murray was here, and in the meantime the boy had spoken to the Judge about it, and be ad vised me that

    the boy could not be sent home against Lis wish. I understand that he was ashore before that. I do not know who ordered. him to be brought a bore. Later on I gave instrnct.ions for the boy to remain at.

    Daro. 28 56. Q. Did not the- man speak to the Judge on board the ship ?-·A. l was to]cl he did.

    2

    2 57 . Q. Yon lrn ~ l a conver at ion witi, tile jncJgc?

    --A. Y ~, ·with rcgnnl to this boy when the .Judg e

    came ashore aftcrwanls. 2858. Q. DiJ. yon tlicn atte mpt t o j11 . tify your

    acti ot1 t o 1h c Judge in deporting the bo.v ?-A. I

    told him that I fonml that it was not a good I liing to

    have natives of other divisions a.t Darn. l have

    freqne11 tly had trouble with natives of other

    divi sions. 2859. Q. I should like to know what st ps yon

    took to have Umi returned to shore when yon· first learnt that the man did not wish to go ?-A. The

    man was on shore at tliP time, and J instruct e,l that ho be taken back to t.be ste~tmer. 2860. JWr. 1-Ierbert.-VVhat is the condition of the pearl-shell industry here ?-A. There is ahsoJutely none at the present time. There aro no Jocn.1 ly­

    owncrl boats fishing from Darn. 286 r. Q. Are there any boats from the Torres

    Strait fleet fishing here ?-A. There arc a few

    boats fishing in the clear water season . They are

    licensed. 2862. Q. When is the :fishing season here ?-A. From the end of September to the middle of

    ~ January. 2863. Q. How many lion.ts are licensed bere ?-A. Approximately about seventy or eighty. They are licensed to employ the natives ns crew. They must have a pearl-shell fishing licence before they can employ a native crev,r.

    2864. Q. And those boats may fish here or in the Torres Strait waters ?-A. Yes. 2865, Q. How many of them fish here m the

    season ?--A. About six: 2866. Q. With what res11irs ?-A. I think the

    results are fair, even good at times for shell. For

    pearls the result j8 very poor. 2867. Q. What kind of shell do they get ?-A.

    Gold-lipped mother-of-pearl and also some silver­ lipped mother-of-pearl. It is the ordinary Torres Strait mother-of-pearl. 2868. Q. Has the industry ever been more pros­ pero·1s than it is now ?-A. Yes, it has been since I have been here. On one or two occasions more boats have worked from here.

    2869. (J. How do the boys recruitetl from here

    answer ?~A. They answer very well as crew after one or two trips. 2870. Q. How are they treated ?-A. I have no reason to think they are treated in any way but well, but I think they get the wrong class of food,

    nJthough they get plenty of it. 2871. Q. What should they get ?-I think they would be better off if they got good sago, bananas, cocoanuts, and their own :Qative food.

    2872. Q. Do you think tl;e industry in this

    division is capable of extension ?-A. :N"ot very much without the boats, which are licensed at Dan;, heinO' allowed to ,York in the Torres Strait without

    a Queensland licen ·e. Our water area is very

    limited. We have one mile of water west of here in the best fi bing water. To the north of here it is not

    gootl fl bing ground, th water being very dirty from tho Fly River. 2873. Q. Is this di Yi ion· generally healthy to

    Europeans ?-A. "Wilh I he exception of the onlinarv malaria European can Jive bore withont O'etting much

    2874. Q. What form i · the malaria ?-A. With some people it i severe, and with others it is not.

    Per onally, I have had very littl fcv r. Thi ~· ar

    I have had none. I was here ix ear b fore I got

    fever. 2875. Tlte Chairrnan.-Ar the native' nnuer Government control in yom di tsion in a pr perous condition ?-A. Looked at from a native point of iew

    • 14$ A. tt. Jicar, 26th Nov., 1900 .

    tis regar

    2876. Q. W onltl y on favour taxing t ho e natives either in money or kind, or by labour ?-A. 1 think that provided employment of a remnuera ti vo natnre to the Government could be got, that n. sy tern of

    forced labour wonlu be best for this divi ion. I

    consider that this would be a good th.in g . To

    explain what I mean, I may say that my experience is tlrnt the native here is very slothful, and I think that it would be to his advantnge, a well as t o thniof the Government, that h e should be for ced to work to some extent.

    2877. Q. And yon con~id er tha t that mi ~ ltt he

    hronght about by the Government having plantniions of th eir own and selling the prod.nee as a means of revenue ?-A. That is so.

    287S. Q. ·what class of planl:1tions

    a

    28 - 9. 1llr. H erbert.-ln r egard to this man Umi. In r esponse to a minnte of Hi.:3 Excellency y on wrote to the Government Secretary on the 28th Augnst : -" Would you please make His Excellency acqna,inted with this fact: I did not direct that Urni be forcibly deported to his village if he did not obey orders. As a matte1· of fact, I was unaware until an hour before His Honor mentioned the matter to me that the

    native had a desire to stay at Daru." How did you come to write that ?-A. It is true; that is why I

    wrote it.

    2880. Q. Y ou said jus t now that yon were aware the clay hefore that lJ mi wi shed t o remain ashore ?­ A. I was aware the

    2881. Q. When did His Honor speak to you on the subject ?-A. A.bout mid-clay on the tlay before the eteamer was going away.

    2882. Q. Then, as a matter of fact, when tue boy was ashore you ins tru cted him t o Le lakeu ou board . again ?-A. Y es.

    Sub- oll ec toi- to take Jbe Loy back to the Meamer antl if h e attempted to jump overboard to handcuff him to prevent him doing so. About an hour later I saw Judge Murrny, a nd h e told rn e that in his opinion it was not legal to senll a native awa~' forcibly, even if it wa to hi~ own villag e. I then gave instructions

    that the man was to be left in Darn. Until I bad

    seen th e Judge I did n ot know what he bad said

    about the matter, as the Sub-Collector had not told. me up to that time. As to tlie que, tion of my insist­ ing upon the t1ative being sent t o his viJlage, I was simply following the usual cu~tom of sending time­

    expired prisoners to their own villag{ s. 2887. (J. 1'he Cltairman.-Have you noticed :1ny decrease in th e p opulation since you have take? u charge hero ?-A. A very decill ed decrense. I have absolute knowledge that there is a decrea se.

    2888. Q. T o what cn.ns e do yon attribute this ?­ A. To lli sease, which has been introduced from out­ side sources, and largely to the cn s tom of wearing European clothes, and also the habit which the

    na tives of late have g ot of using a large quantity of European food.

    2889. Q. What disease do y on particularly refer to ?-A. The di se:1ses we have los t most natives from are. Beri B eri, whooping congh, and I might acltl pulmonary diseases.

    2890. Q. Is th ere any venereal in this division? A. There is a little, but i t is not common. I find it.

    all over the division, bnt only a fe w cases of it. I

    find it in villages where, so far as we know, they have had no contact with white men. I found two cases of venereal 260 miles from the coast at tbe head

    waters of th e BonfJbach River. 2891. Q. Do they come in to bA treated for it?­ A. They try to hide it. Some come in. I have no

    knowledge of it spreading in an alarming way.

    REVEREND EDWARD BAXTER RILEY was sworn and examined, a s follows :--2892. Mr. Herbert.-Wliat fa your name ?­ Edward Baxter Riley; I am a mi ssionary of the

    London Missionary Society stationed at Daru.

    288~. Q. And to be forcibly handcuffed and kept on boa;·d ?-A. Yes, for tho purpose of preventing birn doing himself au injury.

    2884. Q. For the purpose of being detained on

    board ?-A. Yes.

    2885. Q. Then, as a matter uf fact, yon did direct U mi to be forcibly deported to hi s village ?-A. Yes, I did so.

    2886. A. Then your statement in yonr Jetter of 28th August is incorrect when you said, "I did not direct'' ?-A. I do not consider it incorrect. The

    reason I o·ave that order was to preYent the man

    doin g bir:self an inju~·y by j'.1mping overboard. Th_is boy wa~ a time-expired J?nsoner who ~ad been m Darn for some weeks previous t o the arn val of the s teamer, and as it is cu s tomary for all natives from division s other than this to be !'lent home, I gave the usual instrn c tions for him to be sent home by the

    steamer. Thal. in structi on "\Yll given wil b the id ea that the steamer was leuving that day and this man, it appearetl, was take n off by the Sub-Collector of Customs anll put on the s teamer, and the boy tol

    Sub-Colle ctor of Customs that h e did not wish to come home as h e would he killed. The Loy was

    taken to Jndge :Murray , whether on the ste:1mer or on t he ·hore I am noi sure, and tl1 e Jud~e advised that h e be brought ash ore again. B efore I had seen the Judge the Snb- Collertor informed me that tho boy wouJJ not ao home, and if he wa · talrnn on hoard the steamer ag~in he would jump overbonrd. I had not seen the Judge up to that time, and I then told the

    2893. Q. You wish to give evidence before the Commission upon certain matte rs ?-A. Yes, as a private individual, and not a s a represautative of the London Missionary Society. At the outset of my remarks I desire to say, and requei,t that you place it on. record, that tue pacification of natives in this district is being carried on s teadily and very success­ fully by the Resident Magistrate. In his dealings with the natives his conduct is most commendable . He is very consillerate and most humane . I J1a ve nothing but praise for the policy of the G overnment in this end of the country, who do all in their powe r to protect the natives from unscrupulous E uropeans, and at the same time do their utmost t o assist Euro­ peans. I wish to speak on the formation of English schools in Papua. I believe that it is quite time the Government should turn its attention to the subj ect of education, and the teaching of the Eng li sh lan­ guage in the schools of Papua. I recognise that it would be practically impossible for the Government to take np the education of the chi!dron of Papua at thi_ s early stllge of the development of the country, and supply t eachers to schools in every ·village in the land. This would entail a vast expenditure of money; hence its impossibility. Until such times, however, as the Government can do this, I would suggest t ha t it sl1ould work band in hand with the va rious m is­ sionary s ocieties already es tablished in the laud. The Governn1ent should grant aid towards the payment of teachers' salaries in the schools where the English

    •

    Rev. E. 13. R.i1ey, 26th Nov. 1 1906.

    language mu t be taught. 1 wonlcl ugge t

    a [J'rnnt hould be ba ed on the re ults attain cl

    and the number of cholar tn.nght. Exnminations to be con

    difficult for a :Magi trate to compel children to go to chool regularly, a he may only visit a village two or three times a year. The Village Constable should he instructed to get the children to school every day. This should be part. of bis

    improve the intellect and monltl the character of the young, to be supplied by the Government, or admitted duty free. Native children to be allowed to be re­ moved fr0m their own village to a. Central School with the Magistrate's consent even if the parents

    should object. [2895.J I hn,ve object,ionBtonatives going to work on pearling boats in the Torres Strait_ s or any other place outside Papna. In the first place the country is not benefited, but injured, by the

    absence of these men from their respeetive villages while employed on these boats. These men proJ.uae nothing of value to add to tho wealth of the country. Instead of going away I will uggest that they b~ kept at home and compelled to improve tbe country

    by carrying on agricnltural work, such as planting cocoa.nut trees, rubber, and other productive agricul­ tural trees. The results of these men going away are bad. I do not know one redeeming feature in the

    whole case. Their employment on these boats leads to the formation of bad habits, the r1.cloption of unsuit­ able European clothing ; creates a false desire for European food, and causes the men on their return home to lose interest in agricultural pursuits, to neg­ lert their ga,rdens, and this lead s to the neglect of wife

    and children. I have been informed by the Resident Magistrate of the Gulf Divisio11 that for this reason he h11,s had to prohibit natives of four different vil­ lages from signing on for Torres Straits boats.

    [ 2896.J I wonld recommend that aJl recruiting of labour should be clone by a dnly appointed Govern­ ment officer, and not by any private individual or firm. A charge of say 15s. or £ 1 per head could be made by the Government, for every native recrnitecl.

    2897. Mr. Herbert.-In yonr education propos11ls you suggest that it should be free, compulsory and secula,r by missionary bodies. How do you propose to distingui,:;h between the secular and missionary

    schools on a station such as this ?-A. I woulll have the school carried on according to a syllabus laid down by the Government, similar to the system laid down by the New South Wales Government. The

    school here is secular. There is no religion taught in the school. 2898. Q. Do you not as a missionary give religious instruction to the children ?- A. Yes ; but not in

    school hours. 2899. Q. To whom do you give this religious

    instruction ?-A. To natives who are living with us and. who attend chnrch on Sunday. 2900. Q. Do you not give religiou s in trnction to all children who attend your day-school ?---A. No ;

    not to all. 2901. Q. Do you think that that line between

    secular and religious instruction could be firmly maintained on any station ·t-.A.. I would not answer for any other society ; but I think I can for our own. I can for myself.

    44

    •

    THIRTY-SEVlfNTH bAY.

    WED~£ DAY, 28TII NOVEMB~R, 1906.

    (TnI:£ Co'.\nnssION :\IET ON BoARD THE Gov1rnN­ l\[l':NT STEA.)[ YACIIT "ME:r..RIE ENGLAND,'' AT

    TrruR DAY ISLAND.)

    Present :

    Colonel the Hono,able .T. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M. L.C. (Chairman) ; W. E. Parry-Okedon, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Hcrhcrt.

    Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

    ROBERT BRUCE

    was s worn and examined, as follows:-2902. Q. The Chairman.-What is yonr name?­ A. Robert Bruce. 2903. Q. How long have you been in Papua ?-A.

    For 2 5 years, anJ. during that time I have never been furthet· south than Thursday Island, with the excep­ tion of one year in the old country in 18 89. 2904. Q. What occupation have you been princi­

    pally engaged in ?-A. 8torekeeping, trading, and boat-building. I am a yacht builder by trade. I have also a certificate as an engineer. 2905. Q. Do you know the Fly River?-A. I do.

    2906. Q. How for up the river have you been?­ A. Roughly speaking, about 350 miles. 2907. Q. Whu.t is the class of country through which the Fly runs ?-A. For probably 60 miles it is m'l.ngrove, and then for 20 miles Nipa palms. After that it is open forest, then forest and grass

    country. 2908. Q. Is this open forest country auy

    been inland for probably 100 miles, anrl it is ri~h open forest country, and well grnssed. It is good rich

    country. 2909. Q. Is it all fl.at or a.re there some rises?--A. Yon will travel through country for 20 miles, probably, very flat. Then there will be a rise of 30 or 40 feet above the plain. Then yon get into some

    timber _ conntry. 29 ro. Q. Could you give us an idea of the depth of soil anJ. its character ?-A. At only one place, and that wa.fl about 90 miles up from the mouth of the river. I measured the depth. It is 17 ft. 6 in. of

    black loam down to the clay. I think that it would. be of that character of soil as far as I went up the

    river, 3 50 miles. 2911. Q. What products are indigenous to the Fly? -A. Manilla hemp, tobaceo, kapok or cotton grow wild ; sugar cane, cultivated, and enormous quantities

    of bananas. 2912. Q. Do you think this country would be

    suitable for white ettlement ?-A. I do. 29 I 3. Q. Would there be much difficulty in getting land ?-A. I do not think so, because there is so much land not occupied by the natives. What is occupied is merely a flea-bite.

    2914. Q. What is the climate like ?-A. I would call it

    agricultural, and nothing el e. They will do hunting for sport. 2916. Q. Have you any per onal knowle

    some away to manufacturer in England, Ireland and Scotland. I hipped the leaf a it is pre er ed by the

    natives, to

    145 w. n. td, 28th NoY., 1900.

    the world, and they aid it wn fir t-cla s tohnc::o.

    bnt badly cured, nud more ::,ni able for cigar tobacco than for pipe tob~Lcco. 2917. Q. Do you know anv other parts of the

    Western Divisio~?-A. Yes. · 2918. Q. Whn.t is your impres ion of the ,ve~tern Division from the stand-poi_nt of white settlement?­ A. It is sple?did country, capable of suppoi:.ting a large population of European by growing tropical

    product::; and by dairy farrnin)!'. 2919. Q. As a boat-builder, I tale it that yon

    know rnmethin~ ahont timbers ?-A. I h1ow g notl timber when I sea it. 2920. Q. What is yonr opinion of the timher

    po sibilities on the Fly ancl other rivers in the West? -A. Great possibilities. I think a steamer of, say, 500 tons shallow draught can go np the Fly River 300 or 400 miles, antl for 300 miles of that 400 there is any amount of good hnruwood-splendid timber.

    There is enon;.rh la hour there in the way of nnti ves to do the hauling and cutting. Portable saw-mills

    would be requirecl to be movetl from p ' ace to place as they are in Ame· icn. Steamers can go alongRide the river b'.tnk and load timber. Tliis lrnnlwood inelndes one timbel' which is ant-resisting, and should be ,·ery

    snita,hle for railway sleepers. I have ~ent a specimen lo tbe Commission. It is n. teak wood, and is known as "Besi " in Fiji. There are also excellent cabinet woods showing beautiful flowers.

    292 1. Q. Is there good timber on any of the other rivers in the Western Division ?-A. I think that I can say that all the ri Yers I have been on carry good timber.

    2922. Q. ·when you speak of the tirnber, are we to understand that there are large quantities of it close together ?-A, Yes, ther6 are forests, more or less. You tan get any amount of timuer in one locality, and in this connexion I woulJ Jike to add thnt la\.Jour is

    very cheap and most easily obtainable. 29 l 3. Q. Then in your opinion, all other thiugs

    Leing equal, 1 here will Le no trouble in regard to the labour supply ?-A. I do not think so; not tl:e least in the west. 2924. Q. From your knowledge of Papua geuer­

    ally

    :.92 5. Q. Do you also think it would be a good

    thing to send over an expert in tropical agricnlture ? -A. Yes, I do. 2926. Q. As a man who has done a lot of tra

    should be made to teach the native children Eogli:;h HS a help to the native:; tbernselveil and 1o white

    ~ettlers ?-A. ::\lost nndonbtedly yes. I have ad­ vocated this for many years.

    WILLIA.M HE TRY LUFF

    ras sworn and examiueJ, as follows :-2927. The Clwirman.-Wbat is your na.me ?-A. William Henry Luff. 2928. Q. w·hat is yonr OCClll,)atioo ?-A. At present I am a trader and storekeeper, and also the New Gninea

    acrent for the ,yhoJe of the pearling fleet iu the Torres t-;trnit!. Seven-eiahtbs of all the re,enne paid in the Western Division durii,g the la:;t. six mouths bas been p:.1.id in by me 011 account of myself and the

    pearling fleet.:;. 2929. Q. Do yon thi11k there i:; nny future a!'! far as .._Tew Guinea is concerned for the pearling indu 8try? -A. Yes. All the wate• right from :Kew Guinea,

    extending to the olJ ground, an

    w0rking at present, we have acces to, nn

    2 50 Pn.puan. working at this indnstry at the pre ent

    time. 29 30. Q. With regard to Papuans working in the pearling Loats, evideuce has been pnt before the Com­ mission that these boys, while they have been given ample food, do not ~et the food most suitable to

    them, that is. native food. Is there anything in that? -A. Yes, I do think they shoulri be given cocoa­ nuts antl sa\!o, the staple foods of that

  • given facilities for preparing their native food in their own way. 293 I. Q. It has been said that the employment of natives in the pearl-shell industry has cansed a de­ crease in population, and also that it has made them very much more disiuclinetl to cultivate their gardens than heret0fore, and that the Resident Magistrate in

    some cases lrns refused to allow natives to leave their villages nntil they ha,,·e plante

    been working in the shelling industry for the last two generatiom. They have imprnved in physique and in eYcry other way, A.nu io show the difference I

    would say that tribes li,.·ing onl.v a few miles inland are. dying out very fast, in some cases only one or two persons living in a village, chiefly because of drinking kava.

    2932. Q. Do not the natives on the coast drink

    this stuff ?-A. Yes, bnt they have not the same

    opportunities as the bush men. They do not grow it themselves, but bny it from the bush men. 2933. Q. Do you think the timber possibilities of the Western Division a.re good ?-A. I am not very

    competent to spPak on this mi-1tt-er, but I would like to give the Commission my particular experience with regard to Malilla. We brought over about

    4,000 lineal feet of this timher to Burns, Philp, and Co., at 'I'hurs

    mu

    mud so long, the white ants were all over it, right through the sap, and as soon as they came to the

    core of the wood they Jeft it aloue. My partner

    told mo that this timber was called Madagascar teak in London, and was valued at zs. 6d . per cuhic foot. 2934. Q. Can this timber be obtained in any large qnancitie::i in the Western Division ?-A. I can only give you my experience of one ri .-er, the Oriomo River, near Daru. We obtained 4,000 lineal feet in twelve months within five miles of the entrance of the river on the banks. It grows immediately be· hind the mangroves.

    2935. ilfr. Herbert.-Is there a large extent of pearl-shell gronncl in New Guinea waters ?--A. No. 2936. Q. Then the q nestion of the advancement of the pearl-shell inclu.s1ry of New Guinea is in· separable from t.he Queensland waters ?-A. Yes, I

    think so. 293 7. Q. Aud the importance of the question is more in relation to the fa.Lour procurable in New Guinea for the industry, than to the importance of the in

    Guinea at the present time. 2938. Q. Do you think that can be materially in­ creased, bearing iu mind the small area of New

    G ninea waters ?-A. I do not think so. 2939. Q. Do you think that Papuan labour could ever replace the Asiatic labom we have in the Straits

    . H. Luff, 2 th No•., 1906.

    14

    Fi hery ?-A. Only n reCTarJ the Cl' w 'rhoy

    would not make di,·ers off timber . 29+0. The Chairm"n.-HaYe y o n ltad any ex­ perience of Lngnr country i11 Qnecnsla nJ ?-.d. Yes, I ha\'e. I wn. m :wa

    Ge1aldton, for t,,·elvc n~o ntl1 . 29+1. Q. II ave yon crn any of 1Ii ~ sngar c ountry in the \Y e .~tern Divii-;ion ?-A. Yes. 29 ~2. Q. How

    pare~ witl1 tl.ie Quee n . lam! 11gar country ?-A. I think it compares \'ery fovornhly with the Johnston Rh·er, pnrticnlarly one 1frer, fhc Oriomo. 29+3. (). What clns of caue i · indigc11011s to the

    w· e.~tprn Divi ion ?-A. They iunc a c:111e there very similar to what is known as striped Singapore cane, which i the cane grown on the Johnston River. I

    may mention that. nearly the whole of the Mossman Riv<'r is pln.nte

    29+4. Q. Then do yon consider that sugar planting will be successful in the \V cste1 n Di vision ?-A. I think it will IJe more s11ccessl'iil thnn a11y other

    venture, es pecially fr cilll tho point of view that 11carly all the banks of the Johnston Hiver have been planted wit.Ii bananas first, a11Ll on the ht ;ks of the ]/ly,

    Oriomo, and Dinatmi tirnrs they grow bananas yery largely. 011e the l.mnks of the Fly pn.rticnlarly they are grown sometimes a mile in ex.tent, antl they

    inign.te by the rise and fall of tlie tide. I consiJcr

    that a fit place to grow sug-ar cane. With regarJ to coiton, I have distribnte

    trees arc 110w 10 fe 2t high, nrnl they haYe been planted 18 months. The cotton is Carnvo11ica. The natives also grow tobacco. 2945. Q. Then, speaking gencr!l.lly, do yon consitier the Weste: n Di ,isio11 snit al>le for sugar, cot ton, and cocoannt. plantations ?-A. Yes.

    29+6. Q. Do yon consider t.hat the present Adminis­ tration is doing all it cau 10 promote nn

    conn try. 2947. (J. Can you give n11 i11sla11cc of n Mngistrnte doing this ?-A. Yes. f was :pa) i11g otf Lwclvc boys in tlie C11stmn,; Uou~e at Darn. After they Lad ueen paid uff, :Mr. Jiea.r en.lied 1l1e lwys 11p, GOt an in­

    terpreter, a11d told them that they were not. to lrny a11y­ thi11g at nil from my s'.orc. 1 made a cc,mplaint to

    tue Chief ,Titdicial Officer, wLo wns at Darn at the time, and lie called ::\fr. ,Jicar in, nude nn cxn.rnina!ion, and l he Sub-<..'ollcctor o[ Cu~tonn; nntl tile interpreter corroborated my stn.tcmeut. rrlrnt ~vas tbe last I

    heard of it. 29+8. Mr. llerbert.-Whcn wns tlrnt 1--A. I can­ not ~ay from memory, but it. was when nfr. l\Iurray wa~ down at Darn two or three months ago.

    2949. Q. ·what has beeu the resnlt so far as yo11 are concerned ?-A. I have di: charge

    am shutting the store up and ceasing operations as a planter on an island where there arc 6,000 cocoa.nuts growing, owing to the ac1i on of Mr. Jiear. 2950. Q. Cau yon give the Commission any- ex­

    planation as to the reason for Mr. Jiear's action ?­ A. I hacl a manager in the store managing the

    plantn1iou and the store, and the chief of one of the villages came do-w11 to report to .Mr. Jicar tlrnt the manager had sold a native half a ca.noe t-ail for £2, tlie u,· ual price be ing £2 p e r full sail, n11d £1 per

    half ·ail. Mr. J iear simply went 011 the statemcut of thi ~ native, wl10 l1ad never se:m the sail and had only heard the tatement from another l>oy. After the natives luul been paid off tucy went away to buy

    their trade, and one man bought oue ail for two £ 1

    not s. The other man puts down twetity shillii1g4 and expect to g e t about five nil~.

    295 1. Q. Then it was not a fact that h e was

    cliargctl £2 for lialE a s::i i I ?-A. No 2952. (J. ls it a. practice for ·torek cepcrs to elwrge native more than they charge European ' ?-A. Y e :-, I will a llmit that.. Tlrnrc is , o very little bonght u_y

    Europeans that we only look npon it as lloing them a favonr. \Ve look upon it as leudiug them the a • ticl e ~. 2953. The ( lwirman.-I askecl you if you were sa.ti~fi e

    trate, :Mr. ,Jiear. Have you ever appealed to the

    Administrator himself ou a.oy matters aml uot recei \·cd satisfaction ?-:L Yes. For ·ome reason or other

    31r. Jicar took my r e cruiting liGence away. My

    manager wrote to the A

    thonght. fit to do so, or wonl::; to that effect. That

    wa~ the only sati:sfaction ] got. 29H. Q. DidMr.Jiear~ivcany reason why lie cancelled yonr licence ?-A. None whatever. 295 5. illr. Jierbert.-Aro you sure of that? IIave yon been giYen any 1eason wliatever?-A. None whatever.

    2956. Q. V{us there no charge nnder the Native L,Lonr Ortli11ance made against you ?-A. None what­ ever ; only on one occasion, abont three y<>ars before, a hoy that I had recrnited, hut who when he came to Dnrn, refnsed to sign on, I seut him back, autl w beu he wa.s crossing a river he was taken by an alligator, aIHl I was fined £4- 4-s.

    2957. Q. Can yon tax. your recollection about any occnrrence which wonl

    THIRTY-EIGHTH DAY.

    TUE8DAY, 4T11 DECEMBER, 1906.

    (Trrn Co:u:mssION MET ON BoAIW THE Gov1,:rrx­ )rnNT STEAl\I y ACllT ,, l\f 1rn1uE E:-:GLAND" AT 8ICA.)

    P1·escnt :

    Colonel the Uonornule J. A. K. l\lACKA 1-, C. B.,

    1\1. L. C. (Chairman) ;

    \Y. E. l'arry-Okedcn, Esq., I ~.O., l\lr. Jnstice C. E. Herbert. 1'.ilr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

    ARCHIBALD ALgXANDlm IlfSLOP HU ~nm was sworn and examined, a.s follows :-29 58. The Clviirman.-What is your name ?-.A. Archiba'.d Alexander Hislop Hunter.

    2959. Q. What position

    l\f aster of the Go,ernrnent steam yacht fllerrie Enp­ land. I hohl an extra. Master' Certificate, No. 1,

    Queensland, 1902, "·hich I proLluce. I fir t pas eel

    as a master, and then in 1902 I went up and ou­

    tainecl an Extra Ma .. ter's Certificate. 2960. (J. Do 111a11y ma tcr · ltol

    only oue which hn b een gaiued in Qneen land. 296 I. Q. What experience ham you hacl on tlie Papn:rn coa' t ?- A. Tin e yen.1" expe rience. 2962. Q. What i · the mea urcment of the Jlerrie

    England ?-A. ros tonnage i 2 59. · reg i::-tered

    tonnage, 142.8. be ,va. built in 1 ( 83, h r length

    i 147 feet; mean draft, 14ft. 6in.; horse power, 50.

    1953. Q. \rl,al i;; her steam capacity ?-A. She averages 8 knots. 2964. Q. What. is her coal consumption?-A. 26.21 knots per ton is tlie average.

    2965. Q. vVhat is lier cargo capacity?-A. About 50 ton~. 2966. (J. Could it be increased ?-A. Yes, to 80 tons, by bringing the crow's quarters on

    bunker capacity is 70 tons. 2967. Q. \Vbat is her present complem:mt and salaries paid 1-A. Twenty, all told. :Master, £2 5 per month; chief officer, £16; chief engineer, £21;

    second engineer, £ 17 ; boatswain, £ 1 o; carpenter, £10; chief steward, £9, which I propose to increase by £1 on the nexL voyage; cook, £9 ; second

    steward, £5 ; third stel\·arcl, f2; second cook, £4 j four A.B.'s, at £6 1cs. per month, which u.fter l st

    January will be £7 per month (union wages) ; two ordinary sea.men, .£3 10s. per month; four firemen, £8 10s., to be increased to £9 (union wages) after tho 1st · January. Tho full complement numbers twenty, and

    Il1JSelf. 296 8. Q. Will yon g-i ve the heads of the expendi­ ture last year and tho estimate for this year ?-A. I would like to point. out tliat in 1903-4- the total ex­ pencliture ,vas £7,000, and that in 1901-2 it reached £8,000. This includes£ 1,000 for a,lditionn.l ovorLaul

    to hull, etc. In 1904-5 the expenditure wns

    £6,678 3s. 9t1., from which i8

    £6,029 Is. 4d., less refunds and earnings,£ 122 os. 9d., leaving a net expenditure of £5,907 os. 7d. 29(9. Q. Your gros8 expenditure was £6,029 Is 4d ?-A. Yes.

    2970. Q. vV!iat amounts could you reasonably credit against this for earnings

    the total cost of the ship at £3,738 19s. 7d. 2971. Q. Do yon base this calculation of earnings on the fignres which wonlcl be charged by say Burns, Philp, and Co. ?-A. By Burns, Philp, and Co., and

    Whit.ten Bros. 2972. Q. What did yon actually receive in cash earningEi ?-A. R.efnnds amonnting to £ 122 c·s. 9cl. beino- for a small quantity of privately-owned cargo and c,mess account for Government officials aocl their families.

    297 3. Q. Could your pres~nt staff be re:luced with­ out interfering with the efficiency ?-A. No. 2974. Q. Can yon snggest to the Commission any means whereby a s rving could be effected in this

    direction ?-A. Yes, I could. There is cnly one

    possible means of doing so with this ship, and that ia by carrying a P11pnan crew. 297 5. Q. What saving do .Zou rec~on could be made

    by doino- this ?-A. My est .mate is as follows:­ Master, 0 £2 5 por month ; m:itc, £16; cliief engineer, £ 21; second engineer, £17; boatswnin,£10; car­ penter £10; steward, £10; cook, .£10; saloon and galley: four boys, £2 ; cigll t sailors, £4; six firemen, £+ 1os.,or£129 1os.pcrmonth,mak!ng a.total for the year of £ 1 5 54. 1- he pr ese11 t estimate 1:; £2424, ancl there would t hercfore, with a saving of £ 130 in victualling, he a total saving of £rooo per annum by carrying a Papuan crew.

    2976. (J. Do yon consider that the ship could be eft1cieutly workc

    carrying a coloured crew. .

    2977. Q. Why ?-A. 1

    ! . .A. Ii. 1tuntet, 4th Dec., 1906.

    board tho sLtp ; Lut this Yes ·· el is exceptional, n.n

    earnings of the vessel in any way ?-A. I think so. 2979. Q. In what direction ?-A. By all Govern­ ment cargo and passengers being reserved for tho Gorernment ship. There is a gooll

    .Merrie England from Cook town. and thus save a. consillcraLle amount of money for the Go,ernmo11t. 2980. Q. Can you giTo t1rn Commission an esti­ rnn.te of that proposed earning ?-A. I have esti­

    mated it at £:2000. 2981. Q. Would the execution of this work by tho :Me,-rie Englrtnd interfere in any way with her other work on the Papuan coast ?-A. No.

    2982. Q. Yon have in your evi

    to incur that expense ?-A. It would, and more; because steamers do not go to many of the places, arnl special charters won kl have Leen necessary. 2983. 'l'he Chairrnan.-Have you clone niiy sur­ vey and buoying ,York ?-A. Yes, at every oppor­

    tnniLy. I produce plans and charts to show the

    ·work that has been done. Tho Commissioners have seen Kwaipan Bay at vVoodlark Island, nncl the work clone there. That work was done by the

    Jiferrie England this year, besides other \York. 2984. Q. Is there still much work of this sort to

    be clone to render tbe coast safe ?-A. Yes, an

    enormous quantity. 2985. Q. How wonld this work otherwise Le

    I would like to state that the Government bas

    granted £100 for materials for beacons for 1.his year. Tho amount is on the estimates. Now, Yoss els

    can run with a greater degree of safety, and l1o more night running, as the place gets surveyed and new ground opened up by the Merrie England. This is nlready observable from the work tbe Merrie England has already clone. If the work as planned now is

    carried ont, vessels will be able to run inside tl1e reef two-thirds of the way from Port Moresby to Sama.rai, which means smooth water sailing and a saving of coal. I would like to ernpha.-ize the point that if tho coast is to be opened up, it is absolutely necessary to have it beaconed and buoyed, and also lighted where necessary, and we can do all this on the Jlferrie

    England. 2986. Q. Do you not consider that the draught of the Merrie England is rather excessive for this

    coast ?-A. I do. 2987. Q. What draught would you consider most suitable ?-A. Ten feet for Government work. I spea.k more in reference to the west, where there are tremendous long 1:,hoals and sand bars. I instance the mouth of the Fly River.

    2988. Q. In the event of it being decided upon to get a new vessel or vessels, should tlu-iy be wood or iron ?-A. Having in view the intricate character of the navigation, and tho nnmeruns uncharted reefs and shoals at present existing, I would suggest wood ; but I would like to say that having an intimate

    knowledge of the coast I conld navigate an iron

    ship, and indeed I suggested the phns to his Ex­ cellency for an iron ship iu every wa.y suitable for the work. 2989. Q. What was the estimated cost of this

    proposed vessel ?-A . .About £8,000. 2990. Q. What would the Jlferrir!- En_qlanll realize if she were sold ?-.A. Very little. Sho is

    KZ

    A.. A. H. Hunter, 4 h Det'., 1906.

    148

    totally un uitable for anything but her pre!ent

    work. 2991. J/r. He1·btrt.-I he ..;ountl in every re-

    opect ?-.A. Ye , I believe o. 2992. The Chairman.-Wbat i. the ue t nse to which he could be put if di carded ?-A. Gntteu out and n ed as a hulk to hold coal anu cargo at Port

    More by. 2993. Q. What is your opinion of Fyfe Bay as an anchorage ?-A. It is a goocl anchorage. There is a gootl approach to Ffye Bay. There is a good shelter

    from n.11 prevailing wind , and goocl auchorage at 10 fathoms. Jetties could be built, but they would have to be long, as, so far a I know, there is all

    fringe reef there. 2994. Q. Can you tell us auytbing abont Milne Bay ?-A. Yes. It is a very fine bay, but it is ex­

    posed to the onth-east. Still there is good anchorage andshelteroffWagga Waggaat seven fathom:!i. A good jetty could be built there 11nd fresh water is ava.ilable.

    2995. Q. How do those two harbors compare

    from your stand-point with Samarai ?-A. I put Fyfe Bay first, Milne Ilay next, then Samarai, that is considered purely and simply as harbors. One dis­ ad van t'.1ge about Samarai is that there is no fresh

    water, except what is caught in tanki::. 2996. Q. How, in your opinion, docs Ora Bay

    compare with Buna Bay as an anchorage ?-A. I think Ora Bay fa,r ahead of Euna Bay. The ap­

    proach to Buna Bay is very bad. lt is nearly an

    open roa

    2997. Q. How far is Buna Bay from Ora Bay?-A. About 30 miles south. Ora Bay is the healthier for a settlement, as it has high ground all round it. 2998. Q. How much of the coast from Port

    Moresby westward is approachable all the year rounu ?-A. Not further than the break of the

    barrier at Redscar Hea

    sible to approach the remaining part of the coatit ?­ A . During five months of tbe year, that is from the beginning of November to the beginning of March, or, as according as the sonth-east comes in, early or

    late. I might add that Tinll Sound is the only

    harbor where vessels can lie in safety on this coast west of Port Moresby all the year rouud. The other anchorages are safe in the north-we t season. 3000. Q. One of the witnesses, Mr. Buchanan,

    has stated in evidence that the .Merrie England dicl only three weeks' " ' ark during last year. Have you anything to say in regard to that ?-A. Only tha,t it is absur

    Commission to a statement, of the vessel's movements in 1905-6 which I produce. I may mention that

    after giving his evidence Mr. Buchana.n spoke to me ll.bout this matter, and when I told him that the staff or the .Me1'rie England was always engage

    up, and doing work of that character when not

    enga(l'etl in other work, be said hl was sorry he had made his statement.

    THIRTY-NINTH lJAY.

    FRIDAY, JTH DECE1IBER, 1906.

    (TnE ColDIIS5ION ::1IET .AT Tnr: LAND CouRT, BRISBANE.)

    Present·:

    Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. :MACKAY, C.B. 1I.L.C. (Chairman) ; W. E. Parry-Okeden, E q., I.S.O. :Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

    Mr. E. Hanis, Secretary to the Commission.

    EDWARD ROTHWELL

    was sworn and examined, as follows :-3002. Tlze Clwfrman.-What is your name?­ A. Eel ward Rothwell. I am a master mariner. 3003 Q. HavJ you held any position in the

    Government service of New Guinea ?-A. I joined the a .: rvice in 189.~. arnl held a position of chief

    officer of the Merrie England for funr and a half years. I afterwards left the ser\'ice for eighteen

    months, and then re-joined as chief officer and

    n.[terwards as master. I was master for one

    commission. 3004. Q. I understand yon wish to place some

    matter concerning yourself before the Commission ? -A. I am of opinion that I was dismissed wrong­ fuJly. I proJuce herewith copy of the minute by

    Captain Barton dated the I 9th of August, 190 5. 30 05. Q. I see Captain Barton in this minute

    states, "I regret to say that he bas not been able to preserve such discipline on board as, in my opinion, is nece•sary in the interests." \Vhat reply ham you to makP ?-A. Tbe discipline while I was master of the

    ship was better than ever it had been before. 3006. Q. Was it good ?-A. Yes, it was goGd.

    We kept all the crew the whole commission without losing a man. 3ooi, Q. Captain Barton goes on to say: "The conseq1rnnce of this has been continuous friction

    with a consequent loss of efficiency, and Mr. Hunter, the chief officer, has informed me that he cannot consent to serv0 under Captain Rothwell after the present commission has ended. I should not b6

    doing my duty if I allowed the vessel to return with Captain Rothwell as commander without Mr.

    Hunter as chief officer, for I do not think that Cap­ tain Rothwell is competent to take charge of the ship and navigate her without Mr. Hunter's a:3sistance." What have yon to say ?-A. I ha\'e bad charge of

    the vessel before, and I have navigated her one

    commission without touching a reef or rock for

    twelve months, and it was something that had never been done before, and as a rule they used to throw it in my face and ask me iC I was not going to touch a rock.

    3008. Q. What were your relations ,1-ith the chief officer ?-A. Not too good. I had occasion to report him to His ExceHency at differont time::s, arn.l was told to pnt it in writing, which I did. It went

    through the Government Secretary and wa placed before His Excellency, and ho aitl he was quite

    stitisfied with :Mr. Hunter' explanation. 3009. Q. Wbat di

    3001. Q. Had :Mr. Buchanan opportunities of judging what the j}ferrie England did ?-A.

    Very few. I think he was only in Port once

    during the t_ ime mentioned. I may say thnt in

    reference 10 the mileage we run, this ship cannot 1 o w a hig mileage because, owing to reef-waters an l 1langen>11' eu.s, we nave to anchor every night. Eigl1ty or ninety miles is a fair day's rnu in reef

    A. On one occa ' ion I rcporle tl him for going ashore without seeing 1hnt the night wat ·hmn.n wu on duty, and on different oc a ions I had to !.peak to him about the ganO'way. I ~,)I note · from th ' 'nL-

    1 ollector at

    Samarai that the gaugwa.y wa~ iu:::ecnr , nud l bad

    ;•;aters. . .

    149 Ed,vard Rothwell, 7th Dec., 1906.

    to stand there and see that it wa atteudeJ to. That causerl the friction. 301 I. Q. ·were all these matters reported at dif­ ferent times to His Excelleuey ?-A. Yes, I reported them at Port More by an

    30n. If it were said th~t your nerves had gone, and that your eyesight was also deficient, and that as a consequence Mr. Hunter had practically to do your work, would that be trne ?-A. No, they could not prove it.

    3013. Q. Was it a fact, or was it not ?-A. H was a fact that after my dismissal I wrote clown to Mr. .Atlee Hunt, and also forwarded the papers to Mr. J. C. Watson, who never returned them. I also sent

    them a doctor's certificate as to the state of my health and the state of my nenes. As to my eyesight., I

    was tested by Dr. Dodds before Captain Barton would allow me to take charge of the ve~sel. 30 I 4. Q. Then it is not a fact that Mr. Hnuter hal1 on different occasions to take yonr place and perform

    your

    several times. I never batl fever the whole time I

    was there. Mr. Izatt, the second mate,. could prove all I say, that I was never laid up for a day.

    3015. Mr. Okeden. -Is your eyesight all right now ?--A. Yes, I can see to read without spectacles. 3016. Tho Chairman.-Wbat are you doing now? -A. I am doing piloting in the Torres Straits and Rockhampton, and I produce three references from captains of vessels whose ships I have had charge of as pilot. The gross tonnnge of these ships is about 7,000.

    3017. Mr. Herbt!rt.-Di

    3018. Q. Do you admit that the statements made by the Governor are true ?.'.--A. No. 3019. Q. Did you make any protest ?-A. I had no time. I was ordered to leave at 10 o'clock in tlie

    morning, and I got the letter at 9 o'clock, and the

    day was Sunday. 3020. Q. Did you take any action after you lt>ft the ship ?-A. I got legal advice on the matter, bnt I was told that I hail uo legal groun

    of those things for wLich I could get no redress. 3021. Q. Diel you write to tl.ie Government of New Guinea about it ?-A. No. 3022. Q. Had you been told that there was any

    possibility of your services being dispensed with before you received that notice ?-A. Yes, I heard it before leaving Brisbane at the commencement of tLe commission.

    3023. Q. Did you take any act.ion then ?-A: No; I was on lJoard the ship, and, of course, I

    duty. 3024-. Q. What was it yon heard Lefore you left Brisbane ?-A. That Mr. Hunter was suppo:ed to take charge of the sh ip for that commis8ion. I hen.rd that they had cabled to Fiji for Mr. Hunter to take

    charge. 302 5. Q. Do you mean to say they put him on as chief officer while the master's place was kept warm for him ?-A. I was told to take the vessel from

    Sydney to Brisba~e, which I did.' an

    throu

    3026. Q. From ,vhom did you hear the rumour that Mr. Hunter wns to he made raptain on the next commission ?-A. From different sonrcec;, from cap· ta ins and mates on 1 he cous t when I met them in the street.

    3027. Q. When did Mr. Hunter join the Merrie .England from Fiji ?-A. He joined her in Bri ba11e on :\fon -'ay morning on my first Yoyao-e of the com­ mi~ ion.

    3028. Q. Had yon ever hearJ. any of these allega­ tions concerning y~n_r eyesight and nene from the Administrator previously ?-A. No. 3029. Had the Administrator previous to the I 9th

    August given yon reason io believe that he \vould dispense with your seHices ?-A. No. The only reason I thought was that a little coolness existed be­ tween the Administrator and myself abont a fortnight

    pre,ious to my leaving Port MoreEby for Brisbane at tl1e end of the commission. In rrgard to the provi­ sioning of the ship I had occasion to order a sheep to be killed for Sunday's diuner for the crew. At the

    time we kept our sheep on shore at Port More, by. I sent the sl1eep off to the !!hip, and Mr. Hunter, the chief officer, sent. it on shore again, and said it was extravagance to kill a sheep for Snnday'8 dinner. I wrote officially to the Government Secretary on tbe matter, and it went Lefore His Excelleucy, and Hi8 Excellency snid he was quite satisfied with what Ur.

    Hunter had. done, so I could. do no more. 3030. :Phe Clwirman.-And in this case your chief officer went in direct opposition to your orders ? -A. Yes. I informed the chief steward that a

    sheep won Id come on boarrl on Satun1ay to be killed for the ciew'::; Snn

    steward toltl him that I ha

    had come beforo Cnptain Harton he saicl that he w~s quite satisfied with what Mr. Hunter had done.

    EDGAR JAMES MATTHEWS was further examined, as follows:-3032. The Chairman -You ::tate that you wish to give evidence in regard to maladministration in con­ nexion with tlie Lands Department in Papua ?-A. It is pdncipally in connexion with the deposits for land

    that I wish to speak. The matter of papers being noted in regard to what deposits had been paid is

    very unsatisfactory, and in fact disgrac:eful in some instances. I am giving this evidence on account. of the relations between tlie Lands Office and the Trea­ sury, which are not very excellent at any time. As an instance, I remember one case very well, that of

    the Dedele land. It was originally tak:Pn up by a

    man named Andersen. The land wns subsequently pnrchased from Andersen by Mr. W. H. Gors, the latter making all the final payments on tile land to the '.rrrasury. Ia going through the papers there

    was not. a singlP. thing to show that thia money had been paid. I, 0f necesility, ma

    Gors called at the officf', allll was 11atnrally very indignant. He informed me that he had already paid the money a.ll(J held receipts from the TreaRuay, and if I rememb"r rightly, I referrPd the matter to the

    Trea5ury, but could ~et no satisfaction from them. That is an instance of the trouble we had in the

    Lands Drpartme nt with tJ,e Treasury. There are other cases too numerous to mention i_n regard to foes paid on land. The e mutter took place a cnnsi deml,le time ao-o !,ut they have, perhap~, improvecl ~ince .

    3033. 'M1·. llc;·he7't. - '\y, re thrsc fers paiol to tbe Lands _ Office?- A. No, th<·y w 1·0 paid F.ometimcs airect to the Treu ury.

    E. J. ~fnttbews, 7th Dec,, 1906.

    150

    3034. Q. "\Yas a record kept of payments made in 11.ie Lands O ffice ?-A. Y e , I b eli eve so.

    303 5. Q. The troubl e was t o g e t n recorcl of ihos e pnid direct to the Tre:.nuy ?- A. Y es. 30 36. Tlte witness.-Therc is a nother matt e r I wonltl like to bring up. I lrnve had occas ion to make

    out a r equisition for Eome tnr charts, and one or

    two other litt le items . The requisition w11s for­

    warded on .to the Administrn.tor throug h the Govern­ ment Secre tary's office :md returned with rather a curt minute that "he did not tl.iiuk these things were necessary," ancl tb e nmtte r was shelved. The y w ere

    nbsolutely neces1:mry at the time. Some weeks after Mr. Drummond assnme1l otlice as Chief Gov ernment Snrveyor, and b e got those tl1ings immediately. 3037. The Chairman.-Did I nnclers tancl you to say thnt you 1rn.

    things ?-A. I made out a requi sition, 1he n s ual

    thing. Mr. Drummond put in an application and got thorn immediately. I quote this to show that

    there wus an animus against me on the part of th e Administrator. 3038. Q How long was it beb~·cen tho time you sent in this requisition and the time Mr. Drummond got the things ?-A. I s hould say about three

    "'eeks. 3039. Q. You also state that you wish to give evi-

    toriitory for five or six months, was appointed by tlie Administrator as Acting Chief Government Surveyor, Rer-istra.r of Title11 and Commissioner for Lands. Naturally feel ng rather indignant at being passed over like I had, I wrote to the Administrator stating that I had hn.

    State Go-vernment over here, in Queensland, and asking why my claims to 1he position had been

    passed over. The Administrator wrote a minute to the effed that he

    nn.tion from the Public Service of New Guinea.

    3040. 1l{r. Herbert.-Had you ever given the Administrator reason to complain of yonr nction or attitude ns n member of the CiviJ Service ?-A. None whntever.

    3c41 Q. Ha

    3042. Q. That is the only instance ?-A. Yes. 304, Q. How

    011 all cccasions. 304-4. Q. When did thi s animus commence to show j tself ?- A. I noticed it fir s t about the b eginniug O! I 905.

    3c45. Q. What were your relations with Mr.

    Richmonu during the time you "·ero in the office?­ A. Invariaul y cordial. We hacl an occa s ional little tiff ove r w01k, or a bout the way the work of the office s hould liave been con

    3046. Tile Cliairman.- Do yon r emember a minute of His E xcellency's with r egarcl to zone titT e c oming i nto th e D epartment of L a nds ?-A. Yes, I

    regard to a wrong word u sed 1,y the Admini trat or, and this was a cause of ammwment. 3048. Q. Was Mr. Drummond in the office when t his t ook place ?- A. I believe he wus.

    30+9. Q. Di

    mond s howed him the minnle . 3050. Q. Di(l y ou ever sc.e Mr. Drummond laugh at auy minnte by Ilis Excell e ncy which came in the offic e ?-A. Yes , frequently . The reason why I

    know is that on Mr. Drummond's appointment as Acting Chief Government Surveyor be invariably brought the minutes to me and a sked my a.tl vice as to how they should be dealt with.

    3051. Q. And on s ome of these occasions ho

    langbed at them ?-.A. Y es, l lmve seen him langhing at th e minutes. 3052. Q. It has beeu statecl in evidence that Mr. Drummond knows not.hing whatever about meteoro­

    logical work, and also that he did not even know

    how to wind a chronometer ?-A_. That is absolutely true in both cn,ses. Tho chronometer has nn indicator to show when it is wound np Mr. Drummond, after winding up the chrpnometer, would attacl1 a ,;lip of pa,p er to it with tho wor(1S '' W o und np 9 a.m.," when any on e- who knew anything about th0 chronometer

    would have referre d to the indicator. Jn regard to his astronomical work I have frequently asked him to take observations, and he practicn.lly told me he knew very little about it, an

    to do it now. 3053. Q. Did you state to any one that Mr.

    Ballantine had used his ir1fl.uence to get Mr. Drum­ mond rnnde Chief Government Surveyor ?-.A. No. I am firmly convinced, however, that such was the case, altl ough I have never rnatle use of the expression.

    3054. Q. Might you have used such an expression to Mr. Russell ?-.A. I do not think eo. I do not

    remember having done so. 3055. Q. Why are you convinced that what you ha,-e said was the fact ?-A. From my knowledge of something that Mr. Drummond said in my room in the Lands Office. -

    3056. Q. Was that before or after his appoint­ ment ?--A. Before. He rua '.le use of words I would not care t.o repeat, an

    3057. Q. Had you any quarrels or differences with the Treasurer ?-A. No, I had not. 3058. Q.-On what terms we~e you wilh him ?­ A. We were on friendly t erms, a s far as I can see.

    I never came into contact with him at all . He was

    certainly not a friend of mine by any menns, but we had no actual quqrrcl. 3059. Mr. Okedeu.-Aftor li e was appointed, wn.s Mr. Drummond's demeanour snch as you w o uld expect ~rom tho head of~ de pa_rtm ent ?-A. No, I cannot say

    1t was. Ile ccn·tamly dul no t behave in a g entlemanly way to myself, aud made my positioa nnbearable. According to my idea of th e standin a of tho p osition h e dispbyed a lot of levity o n occasi~n . a ntl behaved

    like a hrrikin.

    151 John Richmond, 13th ov., 1906.

    INQUIRY INTO THE C1RCUMSTANCES LEADING 1·\; THE SUSPENSION

    OE Mu. JOHN RICHMO~D CIIIEF GOVERNMEI'T SURVEYOR.

    TWENTY-SIXTH DAY.

    TUESDAY, 1 yrn NOVEMBER, 1906.

    (Tim Co:umssION MET JN THE Com,c1L CHAMBER, J>onT Mo1msnr.)

    J>resrnt:

    Colonel the Honorable J. A. IC MACKAY, C. B., 1\1.L.C. (Chairman);

    W. E. Pnrry-Okedeo, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. ,Justice C. E. Hel'Lert. Mr. E. Hn.1TiS, Secretary to the Commission.

    JOII~ RICHMO:qD

    was sworn aml examined, as follows:--3050. The C/ui,inna11.-What i:; yonr name ?-A. John Richmond. I am at present a GoYernment surveyor.

    3061. Q. You have appli,e

    a

    have never been disloyal to my service. I have not been intentionally insubordinate. The language said to hn.ve been vituperative is tlte only definite truthful lnngnage I could apply to the matter dealt with, and I submit tlint it was mild langnnge under the circum­ stances. I do not pretend to be fo.nltluss. I

    to be honest and thoroughly loyal to my service nnd direct and strnightforwar

    certain mn.t.tc:rs whicl1 my position made incnmbent upon me to report correctly and faithfully. This

    report contn.inecl a statement of the causes of delay in land mn tters and s11ggest.io11s as to improvement in administration of land matters. Al ·o certain charge::;

    n,crainst the Administrntor, Captain F. R. Barton. In m°y presence in Executive Council on the 16th June, 190..t the Administrn.tor took n. ,;oJemn oath of office all

    defiance or in ignorance of tho full meaning of this oath, the Administrator, being at the time deeply pcrsonn.lly interested iu the matter, sat on the Conucil in judgment upon me n'.Hl _made . eYCry effort to prevent impartial or any Jnst1ce Lemg done to me, and even tri ed to snspend the honora hie tbc Govern­ ment Secretn.ry for prntesting against the obvious injustice. This was u~h~ld liy the Do:1rd of Inqniry declaring that th e Adm1111strator had no other course · open but to snspe11d me. I iHlYe to point ont that

    the only hone. t antl fair course open to the Adminis­ trator was perfectly clear and obviou1:1, and tbat. was to place the case in the hand of the Chief Judicial Officer for investigation and report; then to snbmit bis report to the Commonwealth. 'This course woul

    hnve saved n.11 unnecessn.ry <1elayR, expense nnd tro11Llc, and would l1avc insured justice and fair net.ion, h11t in pln.<"e of E"-H<·h f1 ·n.rless con

    Colonial Sel'\'ice, aud packed the Council to insure my snpprcssion. Wlien my case wn.s dealt with by the Board in M elLournc, there were submitre

    Administrator before beiug sent to the Board, but I ha,·e 11ever Leen nlto,ved to see or to hen.r the state­ ments or evitfonce against me l>y the Adminis­

    trator. The Bonni de0ided that the sworn evidence of myself and my witnesses wns in fact incor­

    rect. I am prepared now an

    everything I have stated. I have uo desire to remain in the service of this A,lministrntioa, bnt I have the stronge::t reasons for defending my own professional reputn.tion, which has, 11p to th :s time, been held un bl~mished through a severe official life of 27

    years, and I n.sk for examination of the Department of L:inds, l\tlities, Works, and Titles, which I set in order from the beginning and kept in on1er until my suspension by the A

    exn.rnine<1. [3053.J On the 28th July, 1905, Mr. Atlee II11nt, in the Lands Onice. asked me these questions :-" t. Uuder present system a statement, of where delays occur and the rer.sons for them." "2. Alterations in system that are recommended." "If the first memo. can be illnst.ratod by dates taken from actnn.l cases Mr. · Hnnt will be oLli~ed." Jn rcply to this instruction I handed :Mr. At.lee Hunt, on the I 3th Angust, 1905, a letter dated 13th Augnst,,

    1905, annexing eleven illustrations, which I put in.­ [Letter handed in ]-The illustrations -n·ere chosen by me to show generally the canses of delay. In

    some cases th(3

    Land Office business 01· methods attempting to <1eal in a hasty manner with such matters, and secondly, to show thn.t the present A

    concealing his own bl nn

    t.hen, when he finds he is wro11g, directs all the

    evidence of his mistnke to he des troyed, leaving 1hc papers incomplete, and this nt some future time will nppear as careless ness of the Lands Department.'' [3064.J The next action was Mr. Atlee Hunt's

    letter of 19th August, to the Administmtor, dra:wing the Administrator's attention to the charges I haJ. made. On tho 19th Augnst., the Administrator sent me a minute asking me to come to Government

    John Richmond, 13th Nov., 1906.

    152

    Hon e to sPe him (thnt "·as undny), an

    with me ~fr .. Iatthew. and l\Ir. :\Insgr:we. I we11t to fin

    statin(J' that I reiterated and was prepared to pro,Tc • what I had said. A number of minute . ., pussetl

    backwards and forward respecting this case, somJ of which were very indefinite. In one < n tbe 2 3nl .

    August, I pointed out that I was not able to ncccpt the confused and indl'finite order referre

    from the exercise of the powers antl functions of

    your otfice, such rnspension to lake immediate effect," whilst a fo1 mer letter datccl the 21st An~ust, says : " You are to be suspended from the exercise of your offices,'' and giving the grounds of snspension. I

    wish to point out that in reg:cml to this indefiniteness, in my letter of the 23rd Augnst to the Government Secretary, I said: "It is my dnt.y at tho same time to point ont the advisableness of canying on pro­ ceedings in this case so that a claim against the

    Government for heavy damages may bPv avoided." After all those minutes h:ul passed, I wrote to the Administrator on the 22nd Angust, deman,ling· a proper inquiry int.o the charges I had made against

    him. On the 24th August, 1905, l wrote to 1 he

    Administrator stating that "I bacl not yet been

    informed of the name or the nature of the offence causing these proceedings." 01: the 25th I was

    informed by the Administrator that the reasons for my snspension were giv-en in bis minute of the 2 I st Augnst, 1905. I did not consider tnat sufficient.

    On the 23rd August, frorn the Administrator I was notified that my suspension woulrl be dealt with before the ExecutiYe Conncil on the 29th Augnst. The minutes between the Government Secretarv and

    the Administrator betweon the 23rd August ari°'

    what was the name of the charge brought against mo, as this charge had not been definitely mimed bofon,. I was tolJ. by the Administrator I ,vas chttrged with disloyalty. I Jenied l1aving been tlislopd, and uf'ke

    that inquir_v should bo mrule into my charges again~t the Administrator. This inq niry was refose

    follows:-" In Executi\'e Council, 29th Angnst, 1905, the question whether Council snpport the action taken by His Excellency the Administrator in suspending Mr. Richmond is considered. Or~lered

    the Administrator's action i;; confirmed.'' I want to state that in regard to that Conneil meeting, that it was packed in order to insure that confirmation. Mr. Monckton and Mr. Bramel I were put 011 the Coun­

    cil at that time, so far as I know, for tbe first anJ

    only time they had been on the Council, without having any knowletlge or experience of the matter. I also wnnt to call evidence to show that tbe e pro­ ceedings were protested aga.inst by the Chief Jmlicia.l

    Officer and hy Mr. Musgra,·e. More than that, I

    can only say that I m11st call evidence to show that the alteration I complained of was made, and that tho papers I referred to were destroyed. I made a statu­ tory declaration on the 28th August, 1905, before Judge Murray, to which I now refer tho Commission. I adhere to that tleclarntion, and to all the statements that J have hitherto mac.le in this case. I would al:-;o Llircct your attention to my letter of tho 22nd Angnst,

    1905, to the Secretary for External Affairs, a11d I confirm all that I therein said. 3065. 1'/1e Ghairman.-h that all yon wish to state yourself in reference to this case ?-A. Yes. I believe that presents my case.

    3066. Jlr. Herbert.-IIow long have yon been in the service of this Territory ?-A. Six yen.rs; fr.i m November, 1900. 3067. Q. \Yhen were you appointecl Cbi<~f Go,·ern-

    menr Sun·eyor ?-A. On the 24th Ang11st, 1902. 3068. Q. Were you absent from tbe Survey OJ-nee anc.1 fro·n Port Moresby when the minute of Hi:- Ex­

    cellency of the 28th April, 1905, on the :i\IcCrnun papers re GnLriel's ca:-o was written ?-A. Yes. I wa-, on leaYe from the 1st April to the 30th June,

    arnl I returned to the o'nce on the I st J nly.

    3069. Q. \Vhen did yon first notice the omission of any reference to the Executive Council in that minute ?-A. It was on the day I reeeived a l e tter

    from ·Mr. Buchanan in reference to Gabriel's a!lot­ ment. I received that on tho 20th Jnly, 1905. 3070. Q. Do you positively stnte tlmt the words '' For Ex. Co.," as they now appear 011 the minute of the 28th April, wore not there on the zcth July,

    1905 ?-A. Tbey were not there on the 20th July, 1905. That I am perfectly certain. ! rea

    minute carefolly through for the pmposo of fincling ont what a.ction had been taken. I wanted to see

    whv the action taken l1ad been takeu. 3071. Q. Do yon mean the action taken of which Mr. Buchanan <'om plained ?-A. Y cs. When I got Buchanan's letter I asked for the papers in Gabriel's

    case, and McCnurn's papers were with them. Thou I very carefully read those papers, becanse I "·anted to find a reason for the action taken. I critically

    reacl t bem. They certainly had not the words "For Ex. Co.'' on on tl1at day. 3072. Q. Wbat did you do then ?-A. I wrote a

    submission to the Chief J uclicial Officer

    because the instructions given were perfectly definite as to the action taken, and I did not think they were correct, and I saw no other conrse bn t to ask the

    Chief Jntlicial Officer if it was legal to do such a

    thing. If there had been any remark about Execn­ tive Conncil I could not ha Ye submitted or referi ed to the Chief Ju

    "This is for tho Council,'' and. I wonl

    3073. Q.-Was this a matter which should haYe beeu referred to the ExecntiYe Council ?-A. Yes. 307+. Q.-'l'hat being so, why

    ti ve Council. 3075. Q.-Had he ever done so previously iu other mntters ?-A. I can recollect one case, in the matter of signing- a deo

    the Execnti ve Council, in the Awaiama cam. 307'1. Q.-Assnllling, for the sake of r.rrrument that the ,vords "For Ex. Co." were oriainall)~ on th~ . l 1 .l b rn1nu to nm uau come before you, whn,t would ha Ye

    hccn yonr n.ction in the Gabriel cnse 1-A. If tho

    wordr:, l1:1een on a. th<>r now appear, I wonld ha,e taken it to the Council. 3077. Q.-Wliy ?-.A. To get an order. 3078. Q. - 'Why ,nnil

    A. H n. matter is referre.l to tl1c Exeenti,·e Council it cannot be actc:C rnfrrnble both to

    the Gahric·l ancl -:\IcCrann ca-e·~-A. Yo~, the whole matter. p8o. Q.-DiJ you on the 20th ,July, 1905, ex-pre~sly er II any one's at entiou to the omi · ion of any reference to the Executive Council in the minute of

    153 John Richmond, 13th Nov., 1906.

    28th April, 19051--A. Y e . I drew 1\Ir. Matthews' attention to it. 3c8 I. Q.-Are you absolntely snre of that 1-A. Absolutely snre.

    3082. Q.-Can you remember what was said on that occasion 7-A. Yes, I remember in general

    terms. I took the ca e to Matthews anll aske l him,

    "Why did you carry thi::; out without an order of ExecutiYe Council 1 This i s all wrong." I t.h ink I said, "You have made a me ·s of it. '' At all events

    I told him that the action was all wrong. I discussed it with him for some little time. He told me whv he could not do otherwise. H e said that he was n;t in c?arge of the Department, he was acting for me and

    did not care to dispute the Administrator'::; order . 308 3. Q.- You say that what you askeLl him was, '' Why did you act in this wit.houl an onler from the ~xecntive Council" ?-.A. Yes.

    3084-. Q.-That question would have been a con­ sistent one althongh the wonls th en appearell on the minnte, would it n ot ?-A. Yes. I wish to explain

    that I may have misunderstood your two previous questions a.uout n1y inquiry from 1lr. Matthews as to his acting without an Executive Council's order. I wish to point out that when I referred to an Execu­

    tive Council's order I meant an order from the

    Executive Co1mcil. 308 5. Q. Then at that interview witb. Mr.

    Matthews what was your question? Why did you tell him that he had made a mes!!! of it ?-A. Because he bad acted in what appeared to me to be an

    irregular manner. He sbonld not have acted without an oder from the Executive Council. 3086. Q. The words H For Ex. Co." were not on the document on the 20th July ?-A. No.

    3087. Q. Then why 'on the 2cth July did you tell Matthews . he had made a mess of it ?-A. Mr.

    Matthews should have referred it back to get an

    order, becaur:;e the word :; " For Ex. Co." were not there . There was an or.ler to do an action which

    should not have Leen done wi.thout an order for the Executive Council, and I considered that Mr.

    Matthe\YS -had rnaclc a mess of it because he had not referred it back to get that order. Ho explained

    the n that the instructions were definite. He could not refer it back to Executive Council because he was not told so. He could not go against the in­

    structions, which were definite. I told him that the instructions were perfectly defiuite, but they were wrong in the way they were put, that the matter

    should have been referred to the Executive Council, that if there were not an order ho should have got an order. He should have referred it back. · That is all I wish to explain. I cannot remember the whole of

    the conYcrsat.ion, as quite a. considerable time has elapsed since. There i s one ot her thing I wonltl like to say. I remembt>r distinctly drawing Mr. Matthews' attention to Lhe foct that tbe Administrator had taken a m ost extraordinary action iu giving such an in­ struction as this without rrferring it in any way to the Executive Council.

    3088. The C!tairman.-You have stated that the words "For Ex. Co." were not 011 any pa.rt of the minute pnper under discu. sion, on the 20th July ?-A. No, they were not.

    3089. Q. Yon folly nnderstand the full responsi-1,ility of yonr an swer in tliis regard ?-A. Yes,

    fully. 3·c90. Q. And tloin,g so yon unreservedly state thnt having clo ·ely and critically examined that paper, the words were not there ?-A. Yes, un­

    making a charge against him on which all this is

    founded ?-A. Yes. 3092. Q. As a man wl10 has had z6 years' experM ience iu .the Public Service, and who for two years

    had held the position of Chief Government Surveyor of Papua, tlo you consider that you adopted a proper tone in putting these charges before His Excellency? -A. I do. If I may explain, I mny say that I could

    see no other way. I knew that I had to make a

    definite statement of what I actually believed to be the case for the purpose of getting an inquiry into the matter. I could not carry on or continue in the

    office until an inquiry had been made. That was the only way to get it. 3093. Q. Could you not have demanded an inquiry in much more temperate language '!-A. I might

    have done. I mav have made a mistake in the

    lauguage, but I h~ve had considerable· difficulty in getting the inquiry eYen with that language as strong as it as. Every effort was made to stop it.

    3c94. Q. Do you honestly think that the intem­ perance of your language had anything to do ·with the difficulty you experienced ?-A. I do not look upon it in that way.

    309 5. Q. Mr. Okeden.--ln one of your letters you say that His Excellency hall in Conncil reprimanded the Government Secretary. How did you know that ~-A. I heard it when at Council. It was an

    aside remark. 3096. Q. What was the remark ~-A. It was to the effect that " You appear to have made the rnrne mis­ take as the others." I did not henr the precise words because I turned away my hend so as not to hear.

    The Chief Jndicial Officer was there antl heard the words aud noted them. 3097. Q. Did not your second charge against His Excellency arise out of the papers that were sub­ mitted to him in the Awaiama case ?-A. Yes.

    3098. Q. Were yon at the office at the time ?-A. No, I was away on leave. 3099. Q. Did yon take nny notice of those papers ? -A. No. I discussed them with Mr. Matthews, bnt I did not take any official action upon them.

    3100. Q. ·what action was taken by the Adminis­ trator when the papers were submitted to him ?-A. They were sent up for Executive Council order to register a deed, and the action taken was to sign that need. There wn.s a minute from Mr. Matthews, and they were sent by him througl1 the Government Sec­ retary to the Administrator for an Execntive Council

    order to register the deed. 3101. Q. What did he do ?-A. He made no order · for Executive Council, but signed the deed. 31oz. Q. Did you take any exceplion to that

    when the papers were brought back ?-A. No. Mr. Mattl1ews drew my attention to the irregnlnrity, but we could not help it. _ Our difficulty ·was getting the work done, and not to make trouble.

    3103. Afr. Ilerbert -When did you fir st see the words "For Ex. Co." on tlie minute of the 2Sth

    April, 19c5?-A. It would be the same day or the day following-28th July-almost immediately. 3104. Q. I believe you did draw n.ttention to the freshness of the ink with which these words were written ?-A. Yes.

    3 105. Q. ·#ill yon look at that document ?-A. Yes. [Document handed to witness]. 3106. Can yon see any differen ce there between the shade of the ink in which the body of the minute

    is written, and that of tbe ink in which the wor

    "For Ex. Co." are writ.ten ?-A. There is a very little difference, but not mnch. 3107. Q. Can you see anydifferPnce between the hue of the ink with which the words" For Ex. Co." is w, itten, nnd the hue of the ink with which the

    .Administrator's initials and the

    Ex. Co." ?-A. There is more diffe rence between

    John Richmond, 13th Nov., 1900. 154

    the body of th document allll th wor ls ']Tor Ex:.

    Co." than there i. between the TT"onl '.For Ex. Co." a,nd the initial$. 3 1 c9. Q. Yon have tated that your particular at­ tention ·wa again d1awn to this minute of the 28th April by the fact that you received a rninnte of the 28th July, 1905, from the Admini trator which refers to the want o[ clearness of the minute of the 28th

    April ?-A. Ye, . 3 I Jc. Q. And thnt you then turned to the original mionte of 28th April What

    311 r. Q. Since when ?-A. Since I aw it last. 3 I I 2. Q. vVhat was the appearance ot the ink in

    which those words were written as compared with the ink: in which the initials an

    pale fresh blue, not as it is now. 3113. Q. Did you call any one else's attention to the fact ?-A. Yes, I showed it to Mr. Matthews. 3114 .. Q. At once ?-.A. I believe it was at once. It was certainly the same day. First of all I care­

    fully looked at it myself, and then showed it to l\Ir. Matthews. 3115. Q. Did yon show it to any one else ?-A. I showed it to .Mr. Rtissell within n, dn,y or two of the time-the 28th ,July.

    JOHN R. STUART-RUSSELL

    was further examined, as follows :-3 1 r 6. The Chairman (nt Mr. Richmoud:s request). -Will you tell the Commission what you know of the state of the minute of the 28th April, 1905, on the McCrar.n papers made by His Excellency, prior to the

    28th July ?-A. When the minute first came into the office, there were instructions under that minute from the Government 8ecretary to Mr. Matthews to take further action. Mr. Matthews brought those paperti

    to me, and made a remark that it was -very irregular of His Excellency to declare a m:m's land forfeited, and before taking action he thought he had better see Mr. Musgrave in the matter. I replied-" This seems to me to be a direct instrnction, nnd I should act upou it," which I believe he ditl. I did not see any order

    "For Ex. Co." on that paper whatever-not before Mr. Bichmornl'.:i return. 3 117. Q. Would it have been possible for "For

    Ex. Co." to ha-re been on that minute without your having noticed it ?-A. It may have been possible. 3 II 8. Q. At the time you speak of, did you closel_y examine that minute ?-A. Yes; I read the minnte and the oruer of the Go ernment Secretary.

    3119. Q. (At Mr. Richmond's req1,est.)-Can you state definitely whether the words were or were not on the minute n.t the time you spenk of ?-A. I can conscientiously swear that I did not sec the won.ls "For Ex. Co." on the miuute. Mr. Matthews showeLl it to me.

    3 120. Q. Can you swear that the words were not there i-.A. No, I cannot. 3121. Q. When did Mr. Richmond first ·how yon the minute ?-A. I am not aware t.liat Mr. Richmond showed mo tl1e minnte until after the matter liau been dealt with in Executive Council after the 29th Jnly.

    3122. Q. (At 1111·. Ricl1monri's request.)-What was the state of tho minute when Ml'. Richmond did show it to you ?-A. I made a remark that it appeared to

    me as if the wonl.· "For Ex Co." were only just

    blotted. 3123. Q. What caused you to mnke that remark?­ .A. Mr. Matthews, on the 2nu Augn. t, came to me and saiu-" Richmond is in a grent state about the

    in;;ertion." I saitl-" What i11. ·crtion?" (I hatl been nway from the office five or ·ix day. , and I remember that immediately I walked. into the office on the day of my return-on the 2nd Augu t-we had thi · con­

    ver~ation) He then n.id- 'The in ertion 'For Ex. Co.' at the end of the minute," referring to it. I ,aid -" I Jo t1ot know anytliing auout it; I have been ill, away.'' Ifo produced the papers, and Mr. Richmond, I think, wa present. It was at that time I made tbe

    remark abont the paper looking as tbough it had jnst been blotted. 'fhRt was after the 29th .Tuly. 3124-. Q. Why did it appear to you to have been blotted more recently than the rest of the minute?­ A. Because it was so much lighter than the re t of

    the minute. It was blue-black ink, and would appear as if it hail just been written. 3 t 2 5. Q. (At Mr. Ric!tm(lnd's request.)-Di,l yon make a written statement to Mr. H.ichmond on the

    19th August, 19oj, on this matter ?-A. Yes. 3126. Q. (At Mr. Richmond's request.)-"\Yerc the circumst~nces then more clearly in your memory than they are to-Jay ?-.A. Yes, undoubtedly.

    3127. Q. (At Jir. Richmrind's request.)--Is that the statement [ slwtuing docwnent to witness], n.nd is it true ?-A. Yes. After reading my written state­ ment I wish to make this correction : I find that I

    made an error just now ·whou I sai

    Richmond whrJ hnmled me the paper and Mr. Mat.thews who made tho remark. I refer to the occasion when I returned to the office aft.er an n.bsence of five or f'ix days.

    3 I 28. 1Ylr. Richmond.-I do not think I have any thing more I wish to have the witness asked.

    HIS HONOR ,JOHN HUBERT PLUNKETT MURRAY wns further exiimined, as follows :-3129. 11he Ghairrnan.-Wlien did yon first see the papers with His Excellency's minute attached in the

    McCrann case,

    forfeitnre came before the Council. 3 I 30. Q. Had you any particular cause to examine it closely ?-A. Yes, I had. 3 I 3 l. Q. What wa~ tho impression formed in your mind then as to the words "For Ex. Co." forming an originn.l part of tho minute ?-A. I could see they weru ligbter in color than the rest of the minute

    3 I 3 2. Q. How did yon arriYe at that conclnsion ?­ A, Hy looking at the minute. 313 3. Q. What did yon deduce from tha.t ?-A. I did not draw any strong inference. It suggested tho inferencu that the words had been added later.

    3 134. Q. vVas there nny difference in tbc hue of the ink between tbe words "For Ex. Co.," and the signature and date which immediately foll~wed it?­ A. Ye·.

    3 I 35. Q. What was the difference ?-A. The

    word "For Ex. Co.» were noticeably lighter than nny other part of the minute. \Yhether the initia,ls ".F.R.B." were lighter I cannot remember. I mean to say that the words ".For Ex. o." were lighter

    than any part of the minute, including tho initia.ls alHl date. 31 36. Q. (At Mr. Richmcnd's request).-Dil1 [1 i Excellency make any remark" nt the Exceuti,· Council meeting, l:eld on tho J rth ~ ugn.;t, 1905 ?­ A. Yo::.

    3 I 37. Q. Of what nat uro wa hi:s remark ?-~1. I rememl.icr the words of the r mark to 1Ir. Mu:~ravc. 3 138. Q. Would you mind tntiDO' th m 1-A.

    '' You seem to lrnve made tli , :unr mi::;rnke. 1f y

    minute was plain enough. •

    155' J. H. P. Murra!, 13th Nov., 1906.

    3 I 39. Q. Was thi at the nctuu,l Council or

    after ?-A. At the Council "Tlie same mistake') being that of writiug to Gabriel in steau of bringing the matter before t lie Conn...:il. 3 I 40. lJh. Richnionrl.-I have nothing furlhcr I

    wish to be asked. 3141. Mr. Okeden.-Yon referred to t.he fact that yon had a reason for noticing the conversation yon have just stated ?-A. Yes, my reason wns this:

    Shot'tly before this, l think it was 011 the previous

    Saturday, Mr. Matthews came out to "Hill worth," where I wa.s Ii ving, and said t ha.t be wanted to ask my advice. I said, " All rig bit, what is it ? " And he said, "Richmond is going to write a, letter to Mr. Atlee H11nt (who ,vus here at the time) complaining about things generally, aml about Ballantine get.t in g drnnk, and about his influence over the Governor." Ant1 he

    sniil, "There is also mi alteration which the Gornrnor has made in one of the papers." Then he explained what tho alteration was. Xot having the papers

    before me I could not follow his explanation exactly, but l know wlrnt His Excellency was said to ha,·e Jone was to wrile "For Ex. Co." on the minute

    some time after the minute had been writt.cr:, and the ad vice he wantecl to ask me was this-He saidJ " I havo ad vised Mr. Richmond not to do anything without consulting you or Mr. Mnsgrave. He says that he wishes to

    and not to drag fill.)! body e]se into it." I said, "Does he understand that it is neck or notliing ; tha.t, if lie does not proye his case. he is pretty certain to be

    dismissed ? '' Mr. Matthews ~aiu, " Oh JCS, lie quite nntlerstands that." I said, "Tlio11, if that is so, lot

    him take what course seetns best to him." Of course I do not say that these ::i.re the exact words. 3 l ·1-2· Q. With regard to tho Executive Council minutefl, you lrn.ve seen rl. great number ?-A. Yes.

    31+3· Q. Do you notice any deviation fr1>m the usnal practice in this particular minute ?-A. I have never before seen a refrrence to the Executive Council addecl after a direct inst.ruction.

    3 I 44. 1J1r. Herbert. - Has His Excellency power to deal with land matters generally without reference to the Execntive Conncil ?-A. No; it is an Executive matter.

    ~ 145. Q. In what way

    "For E'x. Co." governed tl1e minute ?-A. McCrann's case could not, be dealt with unless Gabriel's

    case were dealt with in a certa.in n·ay. As it stands now, I think that the words "For Ex. Co."

    govern the whole rninu te. 3146. Q. Is iL possible consistently to read it as

    re±errable only to McCrann's case, to the second paraaraph ?-A. No; I do not see how it eould be, beca~se the second paragraph is dependent upon the decision taken with regard to the first.

    3 14 7. 2.'lie Clwirman (At iUr. Richmond's request). -Referring to this letter of the 20th July from Mr. Richmond to the Government Secretary on this matter, was the subject referred to you for ad vice ?

    --.A. No.

    3 14 8. Q. Does this complete all that yon wish

    asked, Mr. Richmond ? 3 14-9 . . flfr. flichmoncl.-Yes. 3 1 50. T!te Chairman. -Mr. Murray, you gave evi­

    should like to add that I wrote to Mr. J11 stice

    O'Connor (of the Commonwealth High Court) ex­ plaining to him the facts _of the H.ichmond case, and citin()" the language used rn the m1:111tes that passed hetv.~en His Excellency a11d Mr. Richmoud, and also

    telling him the grounds upon which I based my pro­ test anrl the vote which I gave at the meeting of the Executive Council, and lie agreed absolntely with the opinion expressed by me and with my protest.

    3 I 5 r. Q. (At Jl:ftr. Richmondis request) : What action was lakc11 against Mr. Musgrave in Council with regard to this matter, subsequently ?-A. The question of his snspension was brought before the Council on -1th September. The Governor asked the advice of the Council in regard to the su pension of

    Mr. Mus~rave in conseq nence of the terms of his protest which the Governor hall invited him to alter into au official minute, in order, as the Go,·ernor him­ self said, to take away from him the privilege that

    wo•1kl attach to a protest. Mr. Musgrave had fortu­ nately written a. non-committal reply to this suggestion of His Ex~ellency's. I opposed any action being

    taken at all 111 the matter on the grounds set out in the protest. which is already in. 3 I 5 2. Q. Wlrnt Wt1S the resnlt of that meeting ?

    -A. No action wns tnken. 3153. The Ohairm,,zn.-Havo you anything furthor to ask Mr. Murrny, Mr. Richmond? 3 l 54. llfr. Richmond.-No; uotbing.

    THE HONORABLE ANTHONY MUSGRAVE, C.M.G., M.L.C.,

    was further examined, as follows :-3155 . . Tl1e Chai1·man.-Youremember a minute on the McCrnnn case dated the 28th April, 1905 and written by Hi:-i, Excellency ?-A. Yes. '

    3156. Q. When that minnte came before yon on the 28th, when yon wrote your followin()' minute to the Chief Goverume11t Surveyor, were t:ithe words "For Ex. Co.'' on it or not ?-A. No, certainly not. It was impossible that I could have taken the action I did if they were there.

    ~ 157. Q. Was the question of forfeiting Gabriel's

    allotment not one for the Executive Council ?-A. Yes; undoubtedly it wonld be as a rnle, but His

    . Excellency has the power, of course, to consult his Council er not, as he pleases Otlierwi8e I should

    probably have sent the minute hack to him for further consi(leration. 3158. Q. (At Mr. Uichrnond's request).-If those words "For Ex. Co." had been on the minute, would yonr action have been any different ?-A Yes cer­ tainly; I should have referred them to the head ~f the Lands Dl-'p:trtm ent to be reserved for the next meet­ ing of the Executive Council. There are hundreds of papers in the office to show t.hn t that is the usual procedure.

    3 I 59. Q. (At ."11.'r. Ricl1mond's reqaest).-Have you ever known of a case being noted for the Execu­ tive Conncil in the same way as tbis one ?-A. Never to my knowledge. I can recollect no other case of

    the sort. 3 I 60. Q. (At JJ.fr. Richrnond's request),-Wha.t was the 1oeculiarity about this particular case ?-A. I do not know that it was peculiar except that the

    Administrator gave instructions for action :prior to a reference to the Council. 3161. Q. (At Mr. Ricl,mond's request).-Do you remember a remark that was made to you by His Excellency at a Conncil meeting on the 11th Au()'ust

    1905 ?-A. Yes. I do not remember the remark ~er; clearly, but he made some remark that seemed to reflect on the minute I had written to the Actin()'

    Government Snrveyor on the 28th April. I the~ wrote '' Above minnte for your guidance.') He said something to the effect that the action had been taken rather hastily, but the minute was not quite clear.

    3162. Q. (At Mr. Richmond's r fquest).-Were you threatened with suspension as a result of your attitude wit.h regard to the Richmond case ?-A. Yes, it amounted to somewhat more than that. It amounted

    practically to an attempt to snspend me in the presence of the Executive Council. They were not, however,

    '.Anthony Yuagra.u, 19th O'f, 1 1906.

    156

    in agre ment with Hi~ Exe llon v, nncl th matter . o far a I know dropped. Ir rn 11;1,cr n.ftt·n,·nnl-- lli:

    Excellency a k •d me if I wi.'IH'd n, writte:11 pt o:e.~ t that I ba.tl put before the 01111cil ent ,'outh, atHl I

    think that my au wer was that be conld do as lie

    liked. I never heard whether the matte I' wa · en t

    for con~iueratiou 011tl1, or otherwi e. 3 I 63. Jllr. Richmond.-Thnt is all I wi::-h a:-ketl.

    .TOHX RICHMO.TD

    was further examinet!, as follow. :-316-4-. The Chainnan.-Ha,·e to any more witne:;scs to be examineu ?-A. Ye~, one", 11r. E. J. ~htthew:;, who is in Brisba11e.

    3165. Q. Do you wish the Commi::;~ion to exnmi1:o :Mr. Matthews on their return south 1-A. Yu:-;. 3166. Q. Do you con-,ider him a material witncs..; in your case ?-A. Yes, a very material witness. I

    will send to the Commission n Ji3t of the qnestions I wi11h Mr. Matthews to OJ asked.

    TlllltTIETII DAY.

    SATURDAY, 17m NOVEMBER, 1906.

    (THE Cu~nuss10 T :MET AT "II1LLWORTH," PORT MonESBY.)

    Present:

    Colonel the HonoraLle ,J. A. IC MACK.A.Y, c.n., M. L.C. (Chairman);

    W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. ,Justice C. E. Herbert.

    Mr. E Harris, Secretary to the Commis~ion.

    THE IIONORABLR ANTHONY MUSGRAVR, C.M.G., M.L.C.,

    was further examine

    gravest concen~ to several Government officers, especially Y.E." ·what dicl yon meau by that ?-A. Exactly what the papers show, nnmely that His Excellency was tlie principal person charged by the

    Chief Government Surveyor, who was snpportcd by other officials of the Survey Departmen t. 3 I 68. Q. Before this Commission, when asked whether the words '' For Ex. Co." were on the

    minute of the 28th April, 1905, when it ca.me before you, you roplied, '' No, certainly not. It was im­

    possible that I conhl have taken the action I ditl if

    they wero there." In a declaration made by you

    on the 28th Odober, 1905, yo11 ·ay " I can hereby state that to the best of my knowletlg-1 n.nc1 helief 110 such words were incl11Lled in tho said original

    minute." I want to know, ::i.s this seem-, by your

    declaration of October last yea.I' that you were Rpeak­ ing to the best of your knowledge aml belief, whether you po:5itiv0ly state now that tl10 . e words were 11ot there on the 28th April?- A. Y cs, I tlo po:-Jiti,,ely

    state tha.t thoy were not there. I hti,·e thonglit over the subject a goo

    on the minute,

    3169. Q . • o thnt .vou are basina your tatement noiv 111ni11ly upon the fact that yon took the action you tlid, nml that nnnthcr officer took tlrnt action al o withottt que:stiou ?-.A. I partly base it upon tho foct of the action taken by another officer, b can e that

    confirms my on n recollection that the won.ls were not there. I have seen tlie printc

    con. ure wns made by him except in Executive

    Con ncil. 3.170. Q. And was that a censure made privately 7 -.A. Ko, it was made before the whole Executive. 3171. Q. Did he draw yon nsi

    His Honor was pre.3ent, antl hen.rd all that passecl,

    THIRTY.SECOND DAY.

    WEDNESDAY, 21ST NOVEMBER, 1906.

    (TaE CmnnssJON MET TN THE CouNCTL CHAMBER, PORT ~Or!F.SBY.)

    Prese11t:

    Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MA.CKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman) ; W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.$.0., Mr. J nstice C. E. Herbert.

    Mr. E. Harri , Secretiiry to the Commission.

    ms EXCELLENCY CAPTAIN FRANCIS RICKMAN BARTON, C.M.G.,

    was further examined, as follows :-3 172. 11/w CJia,imnan.-\Yonld yon ki11Jly gi,,e ns your full name and your title ?-A. Francis Rickmn,11 Barton, . C. M.G. I am Atlministrator of the Terri-tory.

    3 I 7 3. Q. Your Excellency now pro po cs to dcnl with the Richmoml cas:; ?-A. Yes. I desire to make the foilowing stn.tement : I solemnly swear that the words "For Ex. Co." appearing on the Lands,

    Survey and Works Department M.P. No. 252 of 1905, \Vere written by me on 28th April, 1905. \Vhen Mr. Musgrave came to Government House on the 2 I st August, 1905, I spoke to him on tho verandah before he went into my office. He wa-, agibited, and tlnring conversation he protlucecl a magnifyin()' glass from his pocket and fi

    moment or two, and then apparently wi hing to con­ ceal it, hurri