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~L~6. T!ze Cltair1Jta1L-Y0Lt stated a little tim' .a.go th::i.t yo'.l c :::: uld not recollect the conYersation?

817. lllr. lJoztehcr.-Yo-._1 asked me whe ther I rnuld r ::: me:.-nlc r the com·ers::i.tion. I said I could not., but I can rc:: olle:: t the impn~ssion at the time nused l>\· the interview bet\reen ::\Ir. Bramell and

Greene. -828 . . Mr. Okedcn.·-HO\\'

During the first portion, I ,ms \\'Orking. I ·heard

the l::ttter part of the conversation after Greene had b::en in tl--e offi ce some little time. 830. Mr. Okeden.-Wou!d th.a.t constitute such an offence against Greene as to make it a JJr Cl_'t' ·

thing to thro,\' him O'..It ?- A .. :.\Iy impressicn at the

time ,ms th:-it if it h::i.d o -::curred in .a, pri,·ate offic e. and Gre ne had spoken to me as he s,poke to ::\Ir.

Bran:ell, I ,rould have thrown him out. 83r. Mr. Hcrbcrt.-Surel:·, then, if your im­ pression ,ms so stron4~, You shculd be able to

r2meml:.,2r the com·ers.a.tion ?-A. I cannot recollect the conversation, but remember the impression that Greene was excited and said ,rords. that he ,rnuld not ha \'e used ordinaril , . .

832. Tlte C lwirman._:__VI ould you like tC' t:.3 ,'; any­ thing, Mr. ::\fosgrave? 833. l/1r. Musgrave.-::\Ir. Bramell made some remarks :-is to mv havin,g refused to take over the resncnsibilih·, .a.n·d I 1\'isb. to s.tate that as pointed out- in the -i)apers, I have never declined t!i.e re..::

sponsibilih attached to m,· office. At the time..:. J understC'o

he was un.able to. All I did was to repudiate the

respo·1sibility that rested with him as a rna.gistrette.

SIXTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 22ND SEPTEi\lBEl{, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, PORT MORESBY,)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E, Parry-Okeclen, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

l\Ir. E. H.a.rris, Secretary to the Commission.

CHARLE'S ROBERT BALDWIN was s,rnrn and examined, as follows,:-834. The C lwirman.-.What is your full name? -A. Charles Robert Baldwin. . . ?

835. Q. What is your occupat10n here.-A. I

am a .storekeeper at present. 836. Q. How long have you been in Papua?-A Fifteen ,·ears. . · l

's Q c· , ld ) IOU tell the Comm1ss1on \V )at 3 7' ' Oll . . · , be h . ?- \'OU ha Ye been domg smce you h:ne en ere ·f _ A At first I was trading along the coast. or B. Ph· 1' & Co. and then commenced business urns, 1 p, ' b t vo Year store- on mY own account. I h.ave een ' , . l . ·

0. tt. iiatdwirl, 22nd Sept., 1906.

for school, a.11 l the_ ha, had to Le nt away. t

l' r· · ent, there i. only one child. If a school ,rere

e tabli heel. it 1roulu be made use of. It would

Le accep.a.ble if the GO\·ernment ga\·e £1 for £1. and ,re \rould be ,rilling to agree to tha.t. That

i the opinion I haYe heard from the people re­

centh·. The rubber industry has been closed, and the Gm·ernment ha\·e acknO\dedged its own ,reak­ ness in not being able to protect the trees. The

industry shou•ld not be closed, but controlled. Only the fri1\ge of the industry has l;een worked on the cwst lines, and there the trees are rs,Yept by the

scu:h-east monsoons, and the sap obtained from those trees is not so good as that from the trees

inland in the bush. 838. Q. Are there large quantities of rubber in­ land ?--A.. Yes, I am convinced cf it. On the

coast, a tree \\"ill give from 4 to 6 lbs. of rubber,

whereas in tbe. bush a tree will yield 20 lbs,, ,vhere it is protected from the wind. There is a Village

Constable in each village, and he s,hould have suffi­ cient know ledge of his district to know where the trees are, and be able to protect them. If a man

worked the rubber to the detriment of the tree, the· Village. Constable could give information. 839. Q. Do you think it would be wise to put

a heavy penalty on any one destroying or injuring the trees (·-A. Yes. I know many trees have been killed. It would be easy to .ascertain who did it. 840. Q. Do you think the Resident or Assistant Resident Magistrate in each divi.Jsion would be able to find out through the natives who injured the

trees ?-A. Yes. 841. Q. Do you think there is a good prospect

for rubber plantations ?-A. Yes; this country is the home of the rubber tree. 842. Q. Would there be any difficulty in obtain­ ing labour ?-A. No.

843. Q. Do you think the time has a.rrived when the natives, both in their own interests and the in­ terests of the Territory, should be taxed ?-A. De­ cidedh·. I laid the matter before Mr. Atlee Hunt,

and tl1e Hon. }Ir. Gors went with me to explain

how the fax was worked in Fiji. 844. Q. What is the system there?-A. I think the natives are taxed £1 per head. It is paid in.

money or kind, such as copra or yams, and the

chief of each village collects it and pays it to the

Government Agent. If it is copra a tender is let

for all that is, collected, and it is delivered right on board the Government vessels. 8_~5. Q. Would that be a practicable ·system af far as Papua, is concerned? - A. If Sir W.

MacGregor's idea had been carried out and th~ : planting of trees enforced there would have been sufficient revenue from copra now to have paid :J wry fair tax.

846. Q. Can you say fron1 your own observatiom. that Sir William's regulation has not been carried out ?-A. The onlv trees I know of which haYe been planted are in the Rigo district. I travelled

along the coast six years ago, and did not find any trees planted then. 847 . . Mr. Herbert.-Do you think a hut tax

~rould be better than a personal tax ?-A. A hut

in the western division would contain 150 to 200 men. It would have to be a personal tax on the

adult population. Some few exceptions would have to be made, say, in the r.ase of a son supportinp

his widowed mother. 848. Q. What would be a fair tax tu impose ?-· A. I do net think 5s. a year would be out of the

way. There are very few natives who could not

s,pare that amount. A tax would induce the natives to work ..

..... . ....

0. it. Baldwih, z-ind Sept., 1906.

849. fifr. Okedc11. - - ith regard to th rubb r,

I . ,·e you had any per onal experience yourself?-­ A. l have not collected it m) elf, but 1 ha\'e be<.: :1

in the di tricts where it was collected. 850. Q. I it true th.at it is injuriou - to work

the tree during certain seasons uf the ) ear ?-A. i c should not be worked in the middle of the dn

wind , the outh-east season, as the sap does n~t

run. 85 r. Q. When you poke just now of the closing uf the indu try, did you know that there is a short

clo~e season from the end of June to DecemlJer ?­ A. They open the industry jus,t .at the time the

rubber cannot be collected. In the wet season when you tap a tree you get more water than sap. 852. Q. Do you think a close season is wrong?---.4. 1 t i fixed ±or the wrong time.

853. Mr. Herbert.- What time would you re­ commend for the close season ?-A. It would vary in each district. 854. Tlte C!tairman.--Is there anything else you

\Yish to place before us ?-A. Yes, in regard to

sandal wood. I .am the only successful sand8-l

wood getter who has taken money out of the trad~. The licence should be £4 a year. When the wood was pretty well cut out the licence fee ,ms raised to £[2 a year. It is more difficult to get sand.ti

wood now, and the expense is much greater. ff :r is required to make a revenue out or saridal wo,)J an export tax should be put on it. 855, Q. Then you thmk that only a nom111al

licence should be charged, and that an export dut-y should be . imposed? :__ A. Yes; say, about

£ r per ton. Another thing I would like to point

out is the ,my Government employes are treau~d. This refers only to one district. I laid the matt~r

before Mr. Atlee Hunt and Captain Barton, but the thing is still going on. It is a very hard chi11g

to prove. This man has been so long in the distrir.t and he has such power over the natives. that i.: is very difficult to get evidence from them. 856. Q. Who is the man ?-A. Mr. English, ~ne

Assistant Res.ident )1agistrate at Rigo. He has been engaged in trading for years. The Govern­ ment do not seem to get it out, or do not wish to get it out.

857. Q. Do you consider that he uses hi.s posi­ tion as a Government official to obtain an un. fair advantage over the out,side trader.-A . Yes. I am protected here? He Lrought an action against a man here and obtained damages. I am protected

here? 858. Q. Yes. Do you think that .all Governrncnt employes should be prevented from trading aito­ gefher ?-A. I would not carry it too far. i\.n

official may help in the development of the country by haring plantations, but this man has prevented the development of bis district, and the only man who is welcome there is the miner. Any other man

who goes there and wishes to trade has obstacles put in his way . Very likely when this is brought

before His Excellency he will say they have shifted the station, but they have done that to his

advantage. 859. Mr. Herbert.-You do not .say that the Ad-ministrator has shifted the station for the purpose of benefiting the Resident Magistrate ?-A. Rigo

station is within 40 miles from Port Ior by.

We generally haYe the staff here, al~hough we ha~'e not m.anv nolice in tmrn. If a1wthmg occurred m the Rig; -district it is very ea.;- to come to the

autbori tie here. Rigo i · tbe only station bet\\ een .

here and "'am::uai, 1 50 mile . Ahcut 100

odd miles from here, th('r' i. a floating- population of whit, men at the diggings at loudy Ba). Ar

am time these men ma\' com into colli ion with th· hiil trilJes. In the 'eYent of such a thing, the

near t protection the) could get would lie from

Rigo station, 80 or 90 mile. thi side, and

Samarai, 100 mil s the other side. ' ince 1 put

that before the Administrator, )Ir_ buce bad onh· r turned from .,. !ouch Ba,· recenth ov r ·ome mm~­ der down there. R·1go ration ha sened it day.

H remoYed at all. the tation ought to be removed half-,ra\ bet\\·een here and Samarai. 860. ,Q. Instead ot which it has been remm·ed where ?-A. A few miles further east th.an Rigo,

about 55 mile . This is a Ycry Jifficult

maner for me to pro,·e, but it wou l

it has. I suggest that the Resident )fagistrate

should be removed from the station for a wnile, so that they could get natn-es to giYe eYidence. Bur~s, Philp and Co. 's. books should Le ex.amined, and their books at Port Moresby would prm·e it to the hi.lt. In a tobacco journal ·\\"hich j had sent to me about a month ago, I see that Captain Barton, the Administrator ot rapua, states that the tobacco currency is a curse to the nati,·es. A tew months

ago, while looking for a missing case of mine in the Government Store, I saw a big case of tobacco marked " Kcrema," and found it was for )Ir.

Griffin, the Resident ~lagistrate. 1 was told each station has a sum allO\Yed for the maintenance, .a1:ici the magistrate took his allowance in tobacco. When I was ·with Burns, Philp and Co. they used to have se,,en vessels trading on the coast, and they have not one now. l\Ir. McAshman came in the other

could not get sago, and that the country from

Biereu to Orokola was swamped with Government tobacco. Their tobacco has stopped this man get­ ting sago. If you ,Yill look through :Mr. Griffin's reports, you will find he states how many thousands

of acres of sago swamps there are, and now you will haYe to go down a few hundred miles from ·my place to get sago. This district is now practically depending on the western district for sago. The

sago trade has, been carried on by the natives for time immemorial, before the white man came. In the old days it was carried on by the lackatois.

Landing so much Government tobacco in those vil­ lages has practically ruined the trade. 86r. Q. Mr. English, the Assistant Resident

~lagistrate in the Central Division, agrees ,rit11 you. He says one of the greatest curses to the natives is the tobacco trade ?-A. Yes. 862. Q. You ay you ha Ye a tobaccc journal in

regard to it?-A. Yes; but I have not got it now. 863. Tlte Clwinnan.-ls there anything else ?­ A. Yes; in regard to the water supply. There is

not a great population here, but we want ,rnter of some kind to drink. At the present time, most of the people here are drinking water taken frcm the well in the gaol yard. We have had diarrhcea and dysentery from it.

864. Q. Have you any suggestions to make in regard to the matter ?-A. For some time after I come here there wa a spring behind Government House, which suppli d this place in c.a e of need.

Pipes, were laid down from it to the ,,·barf facing Go\·ernment House. All the levels were taken to bring the \Yater into Port )foresby but somehow the money \\·as neYer found to do it. ince then,

I have ne,·er been there to ee if the pring i fail­

ing. \Ve ha\' had two verv cln· Y ar . The

ncare t supply I knmr of is the L;loki Rfr r. 865. Q. What ,rntild it cc t to hring the water

h ·re ?--.1 .. Tlwr ,rotild h 23 mil s, of pipes.

There is a f.all from th, Fall · of 2,000 f et. If

no one brings it fornard it will remain on th~

shelf.

~66. Q. is It your opinicn that the time has

arnved ·when the town should be gfren a pure

supply of water ?-A. Yes. There is also another matt~r. The1:e. i_s no. one to repres,ent the Central o~ "estern Divisions m the new LegislatiYe Coun­ cil. A member has been picked for Samarai and

W~dlark, and one for the Yodda. There are rnly th1ee. I do not see why two of those Di.visions

could ~1ot be knocked into one, and let us have

somethmg tc s,1.y on the Council. We have no re­ presentation at all. As the Council is now what

the Government says is practically I.aw. '

. 867. Mr. H erbert.-Are your interests and the u~terests of the Di:7is~ons, which . are represented, diverse ?~-A. Yes j :t is mostly gold mining at the o_ther e.1:ct. . There is a large section of the popula­

tion which is unrepresented. 86~. T lze C lzairman. -Do you think it at a 11

practicab;e to hrwe elector.al representatio.i.1 at the pres.ent time ?-A. It is rather premature. I pre­ fer the elected member, but I hardly think it would be possible at the present moment.

869. Q. Are you in favour of trial by jury at

the present stage ?-A. I am in favour of trial bv

jury if it is practicable. -

870. Q. You .are aware there are difficulties in a thinly-populated country ?-A. Decidedly. 87 r. Q. In addition to what you have said, have you any further complaints to make in regard tc

the Administration ?- A. 1 think what I have said covers what I wis.h to s.a.y. 87 2. Q. Do you think everything possible is being done to encourage settlement ?-A. I do not.

87 3. Q. Can you give any specific instanoes ?­ A. The place has been closed for three years. If

yc·u go to them for a piece of land on which to

build a house, they cannot give it. The offici:ils,

blame the Federal Parli,ament. I h:-:v-2 rot seen

the new Land Ordinance. I came back here t,vo

years ago, and was expecting a brother-in-law from Scotland. There were two-s_ pare allotments of l and here . I put in an application. Mr. Richmond

was Chief Government Surveyor at the time. I

guaranteed to have a house on the land in three

months. I saw the note that the Chief Governm0 nt Surveyor put in, advising the Governor to let the lot go. There was, no law against it at the time.

The Governor replied that he could absolutely do nothing until the Papua Bill passed. I did nc.t

get the land. 874. JI.fr. H erbert.-Would a lease for ninety­ nine years suit you just as well ?-A. It would be

quite as good as a freehold to mie. I · would be

satisfied with it. I gave £600 for the piece I have

hei-e. I can never get a piece from the Govern­

ment that I want. If it was not reserved at the

time, then a. reserve was put on it after. 8.7 5. Q. Arie tenders for Government stores

called for locally ?-A. Yes; lately they have been. I had a. tender for rice sent me lately.

876. l'!te Chairman.-Do you know the Merrie England ?-A. Yes. 877. Q. Do you think she is, a suitable boat for

the use she is engaged in ?-A. Yes j The most

suitable. 878. Q. I understand she draws 14 or 15 feet

of water ?-A. Yes, 879. Q. Do you net think that a vess,el of ligl1ter draught would Le more us,eful on this coast ?-A. We have very few harbors that she cannot g? into. '!'he Administr.a.tion could not h ave been earned on mth­

out a vessel like her. 880. Q. Do you net think her upkeep of £6,000 or £7, 000 per annum very large?-A. Yesj but I do not think yot,1 could get a steam vess,el of the

same power and coal capacity that could be worked

F , 14262.-C.

C. Il. Baldwin, 22nd Sept., 190G.

for less . If money could be sa.Yed by getting

another Ye s 1, then I say get her.

881. Q. It has been said that the l'tf errie ErtgZa1id is an unnecessary expense, and that the work d Gm·ernment could be carried on by means of the privately-owned teamers "·hich run on the coast? -A. I sa,· decidedh-, no. We haYe an immense.

coastline, ~nd a ves~l should be always at the dis­ posal of the Government. At any time she may be called from the Eastern to the Western Division. 882. Q. In ycm opinion then, is it impossible

to effectively carry on the administration of this country unless the Government have a vessel of their own ?- A. Yes; and decidedly a steam vessel at that.

883. Q. You think that the small advance the

country has ma.de is largely due to the way the

Territorv has been administered ?-A. Yes. We haYe so~e of the finest land in the world right at the dcor of Australia, and the exports of Port

)Jores by are only half what they were in 1892.

Things are at a standstill here. 884. Q. Has, a progressive policy been pursued by the present Administrator ?- A. No. 88 5. Q. H.as the policy been practically one of

p : 'icing the country and protecting the natives, wi 1:out much regard to white settlement in the cou r try ?- A. So far as I know tl,ere has been no

:i ttec. ;1t to push w bite settlement. 886. Q. Do you think that a vigorous roads,

policy would help settlement ?-A. There requires to be a main arte rv through the country from Pert Moresby to, say, Buna B.a.y, no matter what the cost. I could not say which was the best route.

SEVENTH DAY.

THURSDAY, 27TH SEPTEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C., Chairman; W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert,

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

ROBERT FLEMING JONES was s,worn and examined, as follows: -887. Tlze C ltairman.-What is your name?­ A. Robert Fleming Jones .

838. Q. What is your position ?-A. Govern­ ment Medical Officer. 889. Q. How long haYe you been in New

Guinea?-A. Two ye'ars in November. 890. Q. Ha Ye you spent all that time in Samarai? -A. Yes. 891. Q. Have you noticed any difference, from

a health point of view, since you came to Samarai? -A. I have 11ot noticed that there has been much difference. It is a rem::trkably healthy place for the tropics.

892. Q. Is it not very swampy?-A. The only swamp that was here has been filled in. Before

that was done the death rate was high. Last year I examined over 400 mosquitoes from different part~ of the island without finding a single malaria.1-bearing mosquito. We have no indigenous malari.1I

mosquito.

1t. r. jones, 2ith Sept., 1906.

893. Q. If the ame cour e of action \,·ere taken iil any part of 1ew Guinea, would it produce the

same result ?-A. Yes, 894. Q. Are any other method used here?­

A. In Samarai it is not necessary, but I ,rnuld .ad­ vise people to use mosquito nets in the fir t case,

and white people should not build their house

quarters ,rithin 400 yards of the natiYes, as nati-re children are nearl)i always affected with malaria. 895. Q. You ha.Ye a certain amount of venereal

disease here ?-A. Yes. 896. Q. How ha it been introduced ?-A. It

has been here for a great number of years, and was introduced by the lower class of immigrant, Greeks, ~Ialay boys, and the most worthless. class of white people. They think no more of a native than kill­ ing a mosquito.

897. Q. Would you favour an Undesirable Im­ migrant Restriction Act ?-A. I do not think it

would be possible to work one here. 898. Q. Would you be in favour of giving the

Government power to deport frcm the place any man who had a disease:, or proved to be meddling with the natives ?-A. That might ha.ve a favorable effect on the situation, but it would be a difficult matter to find out the men who were spreading the disease.

899. Q. If it could be made practicable, do you think the deporting of these men would be a good thing from the stand-point of the natives' health? -A. It would have a favorable impression, but it

has such a strong hold now that it would be most difficult to stamp out. 900. Q. Could you offer any suggest~ons in re­ gard to minimising the evil ?-A. We are keeping it in check to some extent byj means of the Lock

Hospital, but the only measure that would be likely to have a decided effect upon it would be to treat it a.s leprosy is treated, and I do not think that is

practicable. We certainly should keep it in check. We have sometimes cleaned out a village of it, but it has scon afterwards broken out again .. 901-2. Q. How many are there in the hospital?­ A. Eighteen or nineteen to-day. The average is about thirty, and I have had as many as fifty. The hospital will hold sixty.

903. Q. In the Papua Act there is a clause which provides for 10 per cent. of the revenue from the lease of land being devoted towards the help of the infirm and destitute native. Do you think it would be Letter to devote that money to the stamping­

out of this disease ?-A. I do not think there is

anv necessity for such a sum for the infirm and

ag~d natives. We are keeping the disease in

check, but I do not think it is absolutely hopeless to stamp it out among the people. 904. Q. Have you sufficient funds at your dis­ posal to keep it in check ?-A. We have sufficient funds for the next two or three years, and then the

hospital will either have to be closed or further

funds provided. 90 5. Q. Would not the contribution from the land revenue be put to a useful purpose by pro­

viding for the upkeep of the hospital ?-A. Yes. I do not think this venereal disease will ever be

stamped out. It is one of the causes which tend

L, make the natives die out. Here we only get a.

small fractioni of the cases. They are afraid to

come under treatment. When. we get people from a neW' focus they are very/ bacl, and probably the whole district is affected bv that time, and when the,· see the benefit of our 'treatment they come in rnl~ntarilv. -

906. llir. H erbert.-Is it of an extreme charac­ ter ?-A. When we g t holct of a simple mild case it yields quickly to the treatmen:t, hut g nC'rally it is more

84

907. Q. I. it amoug the children?--A. ~ o.

908. Q. Is it likely to become general ?-A. Ye, unles. precautions are taken. 909. The Clwirman.-Is there any medical man in the _ -orthern Division ?-A. _ -o.

910. Q. Do you get any cases from there?­

A. Yes, an occasional nafo·e; and most of the

white people when they suffer from ill-health come to me for advice. 911. Q. Has this particular disease spread to

the ~ -orthern Di,·ision ?-A. I have had very few cases, but it does exist. I do not know how bad

it is.

. 912. Q. As far as the ~orthern Division is con­ cerned, is it nort a. fact that the men who are re­

sponsible for its introductiorn are not the miners, but the beach-comLin1g class ?-A. That is so. I \rould like to forward a report to the Commission about venereal disease in this Territo,n-, and will prepare it and send it to you. ,

913. Q. Do )·ou see any reason why a white

population should not be settled in Kew Guin.ea?­ A. );o, so long as reasonable precautions are taken. This is not a trying climate for the tropics. I

have been fifteen years in the tropics, and know

no better place. I do not think the climate of New Guinea is so dreadful as it is stated to be.

WILLIAM BENJAMIN PATCHING was sworn and examined, as follows:-914. The Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. VVilliam Benjamin Patching.

915. Q. What is your present occupation ?-A. A~r~ted water manufacturer, auctioneer, and com­ m1ss1on agent. 916. Q. How long have you been here?-A.

About six years. I am a married man, and in my

absence .my wife carries on my business. I go to

Woodlark, the Trobriands, Euna Bay, Cape Nel­ son, the l\Iambare River, St. Aignans, and Sudest. 91 7. Q. I understand you wish to place some

matters cefore the Commiss,ion ?-A. I would like to say that I have had experience in other parts of the world, .and Cooktown, Port Darwin, and

Western Australia. As an Australian, I should say that,. so long as nominee representation continues, the rnterests of the general white public will not be adequately conserved, because the majority of the white people are in favour of elective representa­ tion, with the exception of the Government officials, the employes of Burns, Philp, and Co., and their manager j R. and W. Whitten, and the manager of J. Clunes & Co.

918. Q. Do you mean that, with the exception of those you mention, the remainder are in 'favour of elector.al representation ?-A. Yes. Some time in August, 1905, a public meeting was called in

Samarai, a.nd 26 people attended, who were all males, and they appointed me chairman. I read the notice calling the meeting to consider the advisa­ bility of sending out petitions to different parts of British Tew Guinea, asking for elective representa­ tion and trial by jury. The meeting decided unani­ mously that petitions should be sent. and even tu all\' the Woodlark petition reached the Prime Minister. -

919. Q. Can you give the Commission any idea of th number of signatures attached to the peti­

tions when they were returned ?-A. There is an­ other now in ci;culation, which is not completed. 920. Q. You say that one petition was ent to

Woodlar1', and it ,rn returned to Ir. Deakin.

What became of the others ?-A. The other. \Yere sent to me, and T then s nt th m to l\fr. Atle Hunt.

They were received from Yodda, ::\Iambare, .and

d1bara. w~ sent 6rte to the Western Divi ion, and did not receive a reply.

. 921. Q. How many signatures were on the r;eti ­ tions ?-A. Three-qua~ters of the white population of Papua. At. that time the population was about 500, an? I th1~k three-quarters of those signed. They will be with Mr. Atlee Hunt. I got an

acknowledgment from him of them.

~22. Q. So that three-quarters of the white :r: opu­ lation expressed themselves in 'favour of electoral re­ pr:sen~ation and trial by jury ?-A. Yes. The main thrng 1s electoral tepresentation.

923. Q. Could you give us any concrete reason, apart from what you have said, why it would be for the benefit of Papua to have it ?-A. The people :Vould then appoint a man who would look after the interests of the wl:iite people. I am referring to

electe~ representatives to the Legislative Council here, rn place of the present nominee system. A

man has special favorites, but it would be fair for the member to be elected by the people. The

ge~eral welfare of the country, including both

whites .and blacks, would be considered if electoral representation were carried out. The interests of the blacks would be better studied under that svs­ tem. We have missionaries who are autocrats. The Missions are always for the black mar:. If it were not for the white man there would be no revenue. The whites found the g0ld, and they have never

been considered. 924. 11!/r. Herbert.-How do :you know they would be considered under the new system ?- A. I cannot say they would. -

9 2 5. Q. Do YOU not th'ink it is too early to intro­ duce the system in this country ?- -A. I do not. A

great rush may break out to-morrow, and thousands of people come here. 926. Q. Do you not think that ur.der r,resent con­

ditions the present system is better, and then, when you get those thousands of population, that would be time then for electoral representation ?-A. I think we should have it r.ow, in readiness. One

man writes to me saying, "Take no notice of the nominee system, it is an absolute 'farce. Eight men voted for . a man named Litt] e, and he is virtually Moncktor.'s nomination. The man was appointed, and recommended at a meeting held .afterwards."

927. The Chairman.-Did the Resident )Iagis­ trate call a meeting of diggers to nominate a man for this appointment ?-A. It was a meeting of

assessors, ar:d, I understand, was called after the man was appointed. I am speaking from memory, and the meeting .may have been called by Mr.

Thoresby. The assessors do not constitute public opinion. Little was elected on eight votes. Mr.

Deakin will now say that the people of New Guir:ea have been consulted, and have nominated Little. 928. lib. Herbert.-You say eight men chose Little. How many votes were cast against him in favour of any other man at the meetir.g ?-A. I do not know.

929. Q. Were they unanimous at the .mee~ing of assessors ?--A. I do not know. I do not thmk so.

Mr. Dan Horan, of Yodda. Valley, was my infor­ m.ant. There was no vote taken at Gira and

Mamba re. 930. The C lia.irman.-Do you not thin~ there would be considerable difficulty in introducing the elective system at present, '"T here the men are s.o little fixed in their occupations ?-A. I do not. You have the postal ballot system in Australia, and it'

would be carried out here. 931. Q. But there is no gu_arantee that lPtters

are delivered inland ?-A. I thmk letters could be delivered at the gold-fields within a fortnight. C 2

· . B. Patohih~, 2ith pt. , 1906.

93.J. . What qualification would you suggest?-A. Oi: the other side they have the six months' resi­ dence, and I should say the same thing should apply here.

933. Q. Then you would be in 'favour of the six­ months' residential qualification ?-A. Yes. 934· Q. You sent .a, petition from Samarai ?~ A. Yes; that was in August, 1905, and since

then ::\lr. Horan interviewed Senator Givens in

from the people he would do his best to get it dis­ cussed. I have here several petitions, one signed by 50 people from Samarai. I haye found that the Woodlark petition has been behind Clunn and Co.'s

safe for six weeks. They stated that it had been

put behind with same other documents. The

Samarai petition is dated 18th June, to Senator (?ivens. Sig:riatures are still coming in. The peti­ t10n5i f:om G1ba.ra, Wattle Bay, Port Moresby, Gira, and A1kora, and others, are still to come in. The Hon. F. W~ekley, one of the nominees to the Legis­ lative Council, has signed the petition for electoral representation.

935. Mr. Okeden.-You signed the petition your­ self ?-A. Yes. 936. Q. Had you been offered a seat en the

Council, as things are now, would you have ac­ cepted ?-A. No. I would have been a nominee of only one man. Mr. Weekley is a .man who would be elected to-morrow. I could present a petition with

60 signatures asking me to be nominated, but I do not believe in being put in as a nominee of one

man. 937. T lte C hairman.-You are also in favour of trial by jury ?-A. Yes. 938. Q. Will you state some of your reasons for that ?-A. I can only repeat the reasons that were given to King John at Rur.nymede.

939. Q. You, no doubt, know that there must

be certain panels, which can be challenged by the Crown and the prisoner, and it may be likely that a r.umber of the panels will bec0.me exhausted, and remembering the fact that there is at present onlv a white population of 700, do you think trial by j~ry, could be carried out without delays being caused by the di.fficulty of getting jurymen ?-A. In Port Dar­

win they have only six· jurymen in civil cases and twelve in criminal ones. We only want the prin­ ciple of trial by jury.

. 940 . . !Jl.r. H erbert.-How could you get the prin­ ciple without the necess,ary jurors ?-A. You have not twelve men inJ every case. 941. Q. You must have twelve men for a capital offence, and what would you do if you could not get twelve?

942. The C!tairman.-Wouid you have enough men in a place like one of the gold-fields ?-A. You would not try a man for his life there. In Aus ..

tralia they woulo take the prisoner to the nearest centre to stand his trial. 943. Q. Would you bring a man 'from Yodda to Samarai ?-A. Certainly. Let justice be done at any price.

944. Q. Then you would only propose to have the same Courts as exist at present ?-A. Yes. They could be held twice a year at Samarai, W oodlark, and Port Moresby.

945. lib. Herbert.-Twice a year at each place? -A. Yes, you have the Merrie England to cor. veyi the Judge. One of the greatest objections in con­ nexicJn with the present system is that one can never

I earn wher. a trial is to be fixed for. 946. T!te C!tairman.-Then one of. your objec­ tions to the present system is that there is no defi­ nite date fixed for trials ?-A. That is so. They

will not fix a. date within three months. I wanted to bring my brother over to defer.cl a man named

W. B. Patching, 27th Sept., 1906,

36

Wolf, but they would not fix a date within three months. I wrote to Judge Murray, but he said he could not fix a date.

947. Mr. Herbert.-Then, would it not have been as well for you to have asked the Administrator to see Judge 1viurray and ask him to fix a. date ?---:il.. No. There is no telegraphic communication with

Port :Moresby, ar.d the Merrie England is not at the disposal of Judge Murray. 948. Q. You wrote to the Judge?-A. Yes. 949. Q. Could he not have placed the matter be­

fore the Administrator? You say he could not have fixed a date, beca.use the Merrie England was not at his disposal ?-A. Yes. 950. Q. It was1 a case of importance?-A. Yes.

95r. Q. Then, seeir.g that the Judge was unable to appoint a date, as he had not the Merrie England at his disposal, could he not have seen the Admin­ istrator and fixed an approximate date with -him?­

A. I think he had to wait 'for the Administrator. 952. Q. What do you mean by that ?-A. I thir.k the Administrator has to run the show. 953. Q. Was the Administrator at Port Moresby?

-A. He only looks after hims.elf and

done other than what he did. 955. Q. Why?-A. Because he has no ccntrol over the. Merrie England. He might have done so. I do not · know whether he did or not.

956. Q. You said 1:t- was no use his going. Why? -A. Because I think it would have been no earthly use. 957. Q. Why?-A. Because I think the Ad-

minis,trator does not like any white man. _

958. Tlze Chairman.-You have made a state­ ment that }·ou do not think the Administrator does not care for any white man; that is, I presume,

any white man's interests.?-A. That is my

opinion. 959. Q. Why is it your 9pinion ?-A. He does care for his Government officials, but as, for c:ut­ siders, he does not ca.re a continental about them.

960. Q. Have you any personal reason to com­ plain about the Administrator ?-A. No; he has .a.lways treated me as a gentlema:ni. 96r. Q. Have you known any man whom he has

treated as he should not have been treated ?-A. Nir. Robert Bunting had to leave the country and · obtain a living elsewhere becaus,e w];ien be applied for a recruiting licence he was told to come

twelve month5i hence. Gim.a;, on whose evidence Buntino- was convicted by Judge Murray; was him­ self co~victed l,y Judge Robinson for perjury, and now that man occupies a position as Vi11age Con-stable.

962. Mr. Herbert.-Can you quote any other instance to back up your statement that the Ad­ minis,trator cares nothing for the interests of the white man ?-A. There is the ca:se of O'Brien, a

white man, being in charge of a black man. 963 . Q. Any other ?-A. I think Captain Barton is an Imperialist of the highest order, and 1elieves in cocoa-nut plantations, and that sort of thing,

to send the country ahead. I do not believe in it.

I would r.ather have mining. 964. Q. You have no other reasons?-A. No. Captain Barton has always treated me as, a gentle­ man, but the real reason is that be lacks adrvinis­

trative p9wer. He cannot keep his house in order. He lets his une1er-str.a:ppers boss, him, and they can tell him what they like, and he believes it. 965. Tlze Clwirman.-Have · you am- views to

put before the Commission in regard to land ad· ministration ?-A. I have carried on the husiness of an auctioneer for the las.t three years, and con-

ducted a comm1s 10n agency business, and have had to deal with applicat10ns for land. Clients haYe asked me whether they could secure so many acres of land, say for sis.al hemp growing or cocoa-nut

planting, during the last three years, and my repl _­ bas inv.ariably been that I would not advise them t r.· take up land in British New Guinea. They

simply pay the application money to the Govern­ ment, and the Government stick to it for three

years. 966 . Q. Can you give -~n instance in which the Government have done what you say ?-A. I do 11ot say it i~ the fault cf the officials. It is the

fault of the natives. I wrote to the Resident

~fagistrnte on the 7th August, 1903, respecting an amended application for land. This application was originally put in for a freehold under the

Ordinance. That Ordinance has never been re­ pealed, and is still in force. I w.as told by the

Resident Magis,tra.te that there was no probability of getting freehold, that I had better amend the

application and make it for leasehold. 967 . Mr. H erbert-:-When were you told that? --A. Just prior to the date of that letter.

968 . Q. Had you not been told tha.t scrne. con-sideraLle time before May, 1906 ?-A. No. 969. Q. Did you not know some considerable time before May, 1906, that no issue of fee-simple

was tc be granted ?-A. Yes. 970. Q. So therefore yOu were not altogethN surpris,ed when you were told? When were the instructions given that no fee-simple was to be is­

sued ?-A.. I do not know. I was instructed to

take up 240 acres and other land, but I told my

clients it was, simply usfless. 971. Q. Had Mr. Garruth received .any reply to his application of November, 1903 ?-A. I do not know of my cwn knowledge. I believe not,

because I financed him. In fact, I was told that

he had no right to be on the land, as it belonged

to the natives. 972. Tlze Cliairman.-This acknowledgment is dated 25th June. There is no delay there ?-A.

No. After I a pp lied for .a: leasehold there was

no unreaspnable delay. No attempt was made to purchase that land from the natives until the latter end of 190 5 ~ and the Government had received the money in 1903.

97 3. Q. Have you read the new Land Ordinance? -A .. Yes. 974. Q. Do you think it will lead to improve-

ments in }.and matters ?-A. Yes; if the Admin­ istrator insists upon the Resident Magistrates and Land Officers, doing their duty and settling matters one way or another. It is absurd keeping a man

here waiting for a decisian so long, and it is ex-

pensive for the man. 975. Q. Then vcu think the Land Ordinance will work well if the officials cany out their duties

promptly ?-A. Yes. 976. Q. More promptly than they have done in the past ?-A. Yes. The ]and is reasonable other­ wis,e. The natives have a habit of spreadin_g- them­

selves over a large tract of ccuntry and that makes less land available for settlement. 977. Q. Have you known of any cases where

natives have come from a totally different p:irt of the country to claim land they had no right to

claim ?-A. Yes;_ I have known them come a

distance of 60 miles. lJ p to the present Magis.trates have re.ally had no info!mation to supply to immi­ grants in regard to land. I consider that the

Magistrates in this DiYision are doing- th ir l,est to carrv out th duties intrusted to them. The

Reside.1it M.agistrates haYe to do many things. He has to be a policeman work up a case, take out

37

a wa~Tant, l>ring up the 12.risoner before himself try him and sentence him. I think the case would

be met by appointing a man from Australia to work up these cases, :ind the Resident :Magistrate would then knO\~ .nothn:g about them. until the man was brought_ before him. There are nC' equivalents, in

the native tongue to many of our English words ~n

and ~.R. ~1., 1

before being appointed, shcnld Le exammed 1D tne Laws and Ordinances which tlv-' y have to administer. -

97_8. Mr. Okeden.-Having interpreters woulJ entail great expense ?-A. £1,000 would pay for four. ·

EIGHTH DAY

FRIDAY, 28TH SEPTEMBER, 1006.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honora1le J. A. IC l\1ACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HONORABLE ALEXANDER MALCOLM CAMPBELL, M.L.C., was sworn and examined, as follows:--979. Tlte Chairman.-What is vour name?-A .. Alexander Malcolm Campbell. ·

980. Q. What position do you cccupy ?-A.

Senior Resident Magistrate for tbe Territory, ancl Resident Magistrate for the Eastern Division. I am also a member Gf :the Legislative Council. 981. Q. How long have you been in Papua?­

A. My firs,t appointment was on the 16th Amil, 1886. 9 8 2. Q. Where were you before ?-A. In the

South Seas, where I was in the Post Office and

Custcms Office. :My experience ranges over twenty-five years. 983. Q. What are your duties and powers in

your present position ?-A. I have all -the powers under the different ordinances that a Resident

Magistrate has, to hold court, and so forth, and

powers that are not definitely laid down, such as the supervision of the district. 984. Q. So that your duties. are the general

sup2rvisim of the dis,trict and the meting out cf justice?-A. Yes; and I have a1so charge af

public works_ 985. Q: Are you in _charge of the Native C:on­ st.abulary in your district ?-A. I am the responsible officer, but Mr. Turner, who is alsci an officer, does

all the detail work.

986. Q. Are many natives, recruited from vour district for work on the Mam bare ?-A.. Last -rear 500 were recruited from the Eastern Division for the Jo rthern Division.

987. Q.- Is it made perfectly clear to those

natives bv the recruiters as to the class of wcrk

they will .have to do, and the conditions p_rev:ailing_ where they h.a.ve to go ?-A. In the maJontv of

cas,es, I tnink i t is. When I ~ h~re I see each

hov mvself .and initial every application, and when I ;m abse~t Mr. Turner d~s it.

A.. 1\.I. Campbell, 28th Sept., 1906.

988. Q. Is it not becoming somewhat difficult to ind~ce boys to sign on for the Northern Divi­ sion ?--A. It is for a certain class of work-that

is, carr) ing. If there was no carrying on the

northern gc,ld-field labour ,rnuld be plentiful. The,· do not like the carrying. 989. Q. HaYe you ever thought of the Govern­ ment taking over the recruiting themselves ?-A.

Yes ; I am a firm believer in that, and also return­ ing the labourers. to their homes · after they have finished their term of service. It appears to me to be only a question of money, and if any difficul­

ties exist they ,rnuld dis,appear. 990. Q. How much does the recruiter get for

each boy ?-A. From £3 to £4- from the employer, without the cost of transport. 99r. Q. Supposing the Merrie England were utilized for carrying boys, and the Government' charged an emplo yer a slightly lesser fee than the

private recruiter, do you think that the scheme

could be carried out without a loss ?-A. The

i1J errie England is not the right class of vessel for

the purpose.. 992. Q. If a, right class of vessel were used 1 ?­ A. The initial expense would be heavy. The miners and other employers would be quite willing to pay

the Government £4 a boy. I think it would pay

interest on the initial experJse. 993. Q. Have you ever considered the question of the Government undertaking the whole of the transport for the Nmthern Divisioru ?-A. I would

not care to venture an opinion now. I have never been in the Torthern Division. 994. Q. Assuming that the GoYernrnent could undertake this work, do you consider that the

transport would be carried on: in a more satisfac­ tory and regular manner, and in the interests of

the miners and others, than by private people?­ A. I .am doubtful of it. 99 5. Q. Do you not think that boys, knowing

they were working for the Government, would be more likely to do their work and less likely to

desert ?-A. I do. 996. Q. But on the other pcrints, not having had experience irn the Northern Division, you would prefer not to express an opinion ?-A. That is so.

997. Mr. H erbert.-Would you give the sole right to recruit to the Government ?-A. I would not make it a hard-and-fast rule. If a planter

wanted to recruit boys for his own plantation I

would let him. 998. Q. But there wciuld be no middleman to recruit, except the Government ?-A. I l,elieve in that.

999. Q. You would allow planters to obtain

labour for their own plantations ?-A. I would allow them to recruit lal-::our for themselves if given a permit, and under certain conditions. moo. Q. Do you not think in certain cases it

would be a wise thing ta charge an annual licence­ i ee for e,·ery n.afr,-e a man employs, as a me ans of revenue, to cover cost of supervision ?-A. I think that would be a tax upon the person we want to

encourage irn this country . We ,rant to make the charge as light as possible provided the interests of the natives are safeguarded. rnor. Q. I understand that the Native Ordinance

has been altered to enable native labour to be en­ gaged for three )1ears instead of one ?-A. Yes, e:xcept for the carryjng, which is for eighteen

months. 1002. Q. And the fee charged is rs. on signing

on and rs. when paying off ?-A. Yes. 1003. Q. Do you not think that Government

supervision during that term of three vears is ne-:essary ?- A. Yes. ·

A. M. Campbell, 2 th Sept., 1906. 38

1004. Q. Then can you sa that the 2s. will

cover the cost of supervision during that time?­ A. There are no natfre labour inspectors who have not other duties to perform.

1019. Q. Do you not think the natural tendency of the natiYe will be to decrea e and not increa. e? ~A. Yes. In some districts they may increa e.

It i hard to say.

1005. Q. But have you not to look ahead to in­ creased labour demands ?-A. Yes. 1006. Q. And also to increased expense for

supervision ?-A. I do not know whether increasing the fee ·would be a good thing. I have a doubt

either way. 1007. JI.fr. Okeden.-Under present conditions do you think it would be a good thing?-A. No. 1008. Q. Do you not think the returning of the boys to their homes a most important thing?­ A. Yes. He has his tweh·e months' wages with

him, and if you do not watch him closely he will give most of his trade away .. 1009. Q. In the case of boys absconding, what safeguard is there of their receiving any payment due ta them? Do the employers always report?­ i1. In this Division they do. If they take out a

warrant we do not insist upon wages being paid. When a warrant is taken out and the boy is appre­ hended, it is decided what time he worked and the money is paid.

1010. Q. Are there any outstanding claims in your district ?-A. Na. When a boy is appre­

hended we check his statement with that of the em­ ployer. In the Northern Division there is some difficulty about missing boys. 1ou. Mr. H erbert.-Have you the right of

initiation in matters connected with working your district, without re;erence to Head-quarters ?­ A. Only in small matters which cio not cost a large sum of money to carry out. We get the prison

labour for any small work without reference to Port Moresby, such as making a road or improving the town. 1012 . T!ze Clzairman.-In the case of a n:1tiYe being brought before you, what is your method of getting evidence from that native ?-A. If the native cannot speak English, and he comes to

Samarai, ·we have a paid interpreter. Ini other

cases, one of the Armed Native Constabulary, who are recruited from all pa1is of the Division, will be found to speak his dialect. 1013. Q. In view of the fact that several dia­

lects are spoken in your Division, it has been sug­ gested that a white man should, in the cause of

justice, be appointed Native Commissioner to do the interpretmg. , Do you think that is necessary ? ---A . I think it would be desirable.

1014. Q. Does it ever happen that a native from one district will go to another to iay claim to land which he really has no right to ?--A. X o, T think not. Not from one district to another.

1015. Q. Is it a fact that in some cases nati,·es

have been known to Jay claim to land ,Yhich has not been utilized at all for the purpose of blocking settlement ?-Yes, I know of instances which

occurred some eighteen months ago in my DiYision. 1016. Q. Do you think that state of things

likely to, increase as they discoYer that ]and is r -quired for white settlement ?-A. Yes. 1017. Q. You have r ad the new Land Or­

dinance ?-A. Yes. 1018. Q. Do you think it would bt a wise thing to put in a compelling clause afeguarding nati,·es' interests, to enable the Government in case of

natives refusing to sell land at a reasonable rat , to uuy the land ?-A .. Yes, I think so. Tt is net

rf'quired so much at the pre. ent time, hut we m11. t look to the futur . I ,rould not onh- gfre the

nati,·e a. much land as he require , but . o much

again, and pay him uouble what he now asks for the remainder.

1020. Q. Then they should have a liberal allow­ ai:ce of land ?-A. Yes. 1021. Q. Do you think the time has arrived

when, both in the interests of the native and the

Administration, some form of taxation should be levied on the native population ?-A. I believe in a form of taxationl- but think it would be very diffi­ cult to collect. I believe in the principle. If it

took the form of cocoa-nut planting, each village being compelled to plant so many cocoa-nut trees, an:d keep them clean, it would be a very good thing, and keep them at work. The nati\-e has nothing to do, and it would be a very good thing to make

him work. I als.o think it would be a very good

thing to have Government plantations in certain dis­ tricts, and the natives compelled to give so many days a year in keeping them cle·an. That would be a form of tax.a.tion.

1022. Q. ls, there in your division a large area

of land suitable for tropical agriculture ?-A. Yes . ro23. Q. What products would you suggest as being suitable ?-A. Rubber, cocoa-nuts, and suga.r. There is land in Mullins Ha1;bor suitable for this.

ro24. Q. Is there any land suitable for cattle?­ A.. Yes, but not of a very large area . 1025. Q. Supposing a number of settlers were to come tc' your Division at the present time would you be in a position to put them on the la~d ?- A. Ko, because the land has noi been acquired .

1026. Q. Do you not think that it should be laid down as a principle that before settlers are inducec~ to come to this place, land should be acquired ?-A. Certainly.

1027. Mr. Herbert.-How do you propose to make land available ?-A. By purchasina as, much as possible from the natives, and decla~ing waste and vacant those lands not used by the natives.

l1n til quite recently the Resident Magistrate had no p.ower to buy land without reference to Port

Moresby. Consequently he frequently on hi,s trips saw land which the natives were willing to sell, but by the time he referred the matter to Port l\Ioresbv, and got authority to buy, the natives would not seil.

Kow the Resident Magistrate has power to buv with-out reference to Port l\Ioresby. ·

1028. Q. Do you think, in view of the early

demand for land, that the present provision in the draft land ordinance a.is to securing the Crown

land will meet the case with the present staff of sur­ veyors, or even with a fairlv reasonable demand?-­ A.'. I think there should be· at leas.t one surveyor or assistant in each Division.

1029. Q. Do you not think it very desirable that Crown land sho~ld be separated as ~oon as possible from nati,-e land ?-A. Yes. 1030. Q. And that can only be done bv a large

staff of surveyors ?- A. Yes. · ·

1031. Tlte · C!tainnan.-From ,Yhat you fiaye heard, do you think it would l.Je a Yen- advisable t hing to have a timber expert sent to ;amine and report on timber possipiliti.es in this country ?-'-A. Yes, to all the di tricts.

1032. i11r. Herbert.-Tbe rnrmng Jmrs of the Territor - are Queen land laws .:i dopted ?- A. Yes, with a f w modifications. 1033. (). How i it posibJ for right to mine

10 ht> obtained OY r lands all er cl by th natiYe to

belong to them ?- A. o far a, T kno\\- it has for­

tunately happened that non of th' gold-fields hay been on native gard n or land .

89 Isadore Herschtel, 28th Sept., 1906.

1034. Q. But how could they be obtained if gold were found on native land in future ?-A. 1 hey could not unless the land were purchased. 1035. Q. Then you think the native has also the minerals conserved to him ?-A. I think there ma\' be complications. If the miners were to tear up

the natives' gardens and rich ground, trouble would arise. 1036. Q. Do you think the provisions of the

Queensland Act would apply to the peculiar owner­ ship of the natives here ?-A. I do not think so. 103 7. Q. Have you considered the possibilities of gold dredging in your district ?-A. There was

some talk about it years a.go, but I have no faith in it. The rivers here are not suitable.

1038. The Clzairman.-With. the advance of settlement, do you think that the island of Samarai will be Large enough to contain the capital of the Eastern Division ?-A. No. The fact of it being art island militates very much against its usefulness.

It has an area of 59 acres, and is very healthy. 1039. Q. Have you considered Fyfe Bay as the site of a possible suitable capital ?-A. Yes. The anchorage there during the south-east season is good, but during the north-west it is bad.

1040. Q. Is it as good .an anchorage as Samarai? -A. Yes, and there is a large area of very good

land at the back of Fyfe's Bay. 1041. Q. Would it cost a very large amount to

open connexion by road between the port and that land ?-A. No. 1042. Q. Consequently Fyfe Bay would tap a large area of good land ?-A. Yes, and it would

cost very iittle to cut a road from the head of

Mullen's. Harbor to Fyfe, Bay. 1043. Q. You have not good land at the back of Samarai ?- A. No. 1044. Q. Do you know any better locality than Fyfe Bay for a future capital site for the Eastern Division ?-A. No. The disadvantage is that it is

so much further away from the northern gold-field, but there is no other suit.able harbor nearer. It is only 42 miles further than Samarai. 1045. Q. Have you anything to place before the .Commission as to your relatiqns with the Adminis­

trator ?--A. No, they have always been satisfac­ torv. I would like to say that there appears to be

an, impression in Australia that the natives get a large quantity of liquor to drink. There are

isolated cases, but it is not a general thing. The

Papuan has not acquired a taste for liquor at this end of the Division, at all events, and, no matter

how low down a European may be, he is always ready and willing to support the Government in preventing the natives ,getting liquor. I have onl y had about six cases of nati,ves getting liquor within ten years, and they were mostly Western boys, who

had been to Thursday Island. In every cas.e the man giving the liquor has been fined heavily-£30.

ISADORE HERSCHTEL

was sworn and exarnirned, as follows,:-1046. The Chairman.---What is your name ?-A. Isadore Herschtel. ro47 . Q. Wh.a,t is your o::cupation?-A. I am

agent for Leonard Rosenthal, pearl merchant, P'aris. ro48. Q. Have you any view~ in regard to _t he pearl industry which you would hke to place belor•:

the Commiss ion ?- A. Yes. 1049. Q. You propose to commenc<: operati.0·1s in the Trobri.ancls ?-A. Yes. The natives there are fishing for oysters for food, and they get some

pearls out of those oysters, and I want to have the right to buy the pearls from the natives,. 1050. Q. Do you propose to use any native la­ bour ?-A. No. If pearl fishing were carried on in

the usu al way it would mean that in a few years the oysters would be exhausted, and the native supply of food would come to an end. My proposals

would not in any way interfere with the native food supply, as I only propose to purchase [he r·:~arls from the natives taken from the oysters which they procure for food. Under the present system the trader advances the native trade of variciu~ kinds ;

he gets him into his debt, a.T).d later on practically forces the native to work for him to repay that debt, and consequently very often they have to neglect their gardens so that they may work off their debt to the pearl tr.a.der.

ro51. Q. Do you wish the Government to give you the sple right to ca.rry on the operations you have described in the Trobriands ?-A. Yes.

rn52. Q. What do you propose to give the Go­ vernment in return for that privilege ?-A. I am prepared to offer £400 a year. 1053. Q. Would there be any indirect benefit to the revenue ?-A. Yes. Revenue would be de­ rived from all the trade which I would have to use, especially tobacco.

1054. Q. Does not the revenue benefit from that s.ource now ?-A. Very little. The present pearl fishers trade in arm shells, New Guinea coins and belts., but very little in tobacco.

1055. Q. What benefit do you think the revenue ,rnuld derive from your trade ?-A. I should want from 3 to 4 tons of tol,acco a year at the very

least. ·

1056. Q. Have you considered the possibility of pearl shelling in any other part of the country ? A. At present I do not know about other parts of British New Guinea.

1057. Q. If your operations in the Trobriands were successful would you then be prepared to em­ bark in other ventures around the coas,t ?-A. Yes, we would get experts to come here and thoroughly test the pearl shells.

1058. Mr. Okeden.-What sort of people are now engaged in the trade ?-A. Greeks, Japanese, and Manilla men. 1059. Q. In what way would you be prepared to pay the money to the Government ?- A. We

,rnuld pay it in any way the Government required, and would pay it in advance.

THE HONORABLE WILLIAM WHITTEN, M.L.C., was s\\·orn and examined, as follows :-1060. The Chairman.-What is your name?-A. William Whitten. ·

1061. Q. How long have you beer. in Papua?­ A. T wenty-one years. 1062. Q. What occupation have you been follow­ ing ?-A. I have a captain's certificate, and origin­ ally ca.me here as a trader. I was engaged with

shipping for a considerable time, but since 1890 I have beer. engaged in storekeeping and plantations. 1063. Q. You are now a non-official member of the Legislative Council ?-A. Yes.

J064. Q. H ave you any matters you would like to place before the Commission ?-A. Yes; in the first place, in connexion with the Administration. 1065. Q. Are you satisfied with the preser.t Go­ \'e rnment methods of the Admini tration ?-A. No.

10 66. Q. Do you think everything possible is be­ ing done to encourage development ?- A. No. 1067. Q. H ave you any particular instances you would like to brir:g be fore the Commission in re­ gard to the present Admini. tration ?-A. No. My

William Whitten, 2 th Sept., 1!)06.

idea i. that the Administration generally is run on very expensive lines. I think that a business man at the head of affairs here could reduce exper:diture a good deal.

106 8. Q. Are you referring to a business man as Administrator ?-A. Either as Administrator or Treasurer. Expensesi in · some of the Divisions are Yery high for the amount of. work done. They are

run by men who have no idea of mor:ey, and I

think a good business man at the head of affairs

could reduce expenses a great deal. 1069. Q. Would not that, to a large extent, fall

under the Department of the Treasurer ?-A. The Administrator in N e,v Guir.e.a has taken the prin­ cipal part in the Administration. 1070. Q. Are you of opinion that the present Ad-

ministrator has not a business grasp of the admin­ istration ?--A. I would r.ot like to say that. A

business man at the head of affairs, either as Go­ vernor or Treasurer, could reduce expemes in

Samarai, and have that money for other purposes. 1071. Q. Then you do not think, at .the present time, the Admir:istration is run on strictly business lines ?-A. I do not think it is.

:r.07 2. Q. Can you give any definite instances

where you think money could be sa.ved ?-A. The Northern Division is the most exper:sive, and I think a lot of money is wasted there. 107 3. Q. In what way ?-A. For one thing, when

a magistrate travels up there he does not seem to be able to move about without less than 40 natives, and ger:erally has about six police. I can travel about there (although I would not expect a magistrate to travel quite as meanly as myself) with three boys.

I should sa,y that ten or fifteen bvys would answer all purposes of comfort. There would be a few

extra natives to carry the constables' 'food. 1074. Q. Is there any othet place where expenses could be reduced without impairing efficier:cy ?-A. I do not pretend to know how Governments should

be run, but it seems to me that we could do with

less officers at the head of aff a.irs. I think that the work of the Administrator and the Judge could be done by or:e officer. 107 5. Q. You think there is n0 necessity for the

two positions ?-A. No j the duties could be carried out by one man, and I think that the positions of

Government Secretary and Treasurer might be filled by or:e man.

0

1076. Q. You are now speaking of Papua exactly as it is j but suppose it develops? A forward policy is now to be gone on with, and everv effort made to bring white men to the country. Under those cir­ cumstances, would you still hold those views ?-A.

I do not know all the work that is dor.e, but I am

judging from outside. I cannot imagine such an in­ flux of people into this country as to add so much to the work. There might be mining developments., but I do not think it would add much to the official

work. Agricultural development would certainl_­ bring a few extra white people here, but I do not

think it would make much more work. It mjght in the L:rnds Department, but that could be met by extra clerks. 1077. Q. Would not extra surveyors be required? -A. Yes. ·

1078. Q. So far as you can see the present staff is somewhat large, and might be reduced without impairing the effi iency of the service ?-A. Yes. A busine s man at the head of affairs would be able

to see pler.ty of places where he could save money. Co t 0f Govetnment here is too high for the size of the country and the result. 1079. Q. Of course, you understand that di -

tances are great, and there is no oncentration of

population ?-A. Thir.gs have improved. It is only

recen"tly we haYe had steam ve sels on the coast, and only a few years ago since we had to depend en-tirely on sailing vessels. 1080. Q. D0 you think it would be a go:-J d thing

for the Governmer..t to undertake the whole of the transport in the K orthern Division ?-A. I have never thought of that. I cannot see the advantage. 108 r. Q. Do you think the present method of

transport is reliable and satis'factory ?-A. There is r..ot a deal 0f difficulty in the transport to where the miners are working. It is difficult to get there, be­ cause the roads are bad andl the distances are

long. 1082. Q. Is there any difficulty in regard to

boys ?-A. Not a great difficulty. In some of the further places the boys do not always deliver their loads. 1083. Q. Would they be more likely to deliver

their loads if they were under the Government ?'--A. When the roads were bad the boys used to loiter or thro\v their loads a ,,rn y, ar.d we had the services of one of the native police to go with them, but that

was all gi ,·en up after a time, as we found that the native police were inclined to loiter as much as the boys. 1084. Q. You are engaged in the carrying busi-ness ?-A. Yes. In the way of recruiting boys there

is a difficulty. We car.. get plenty of labour for

canying in the Western Division. The difficultv is ir: the way of getting boys for mining in that

Division. ro85. 0. Can you suggest any improvements ir: the present methods ?-A. I am in favour o'f the

Government taking all the recruiting over for

miners. I would allow private persons to recruit

their own boys. 1086. Q. But under Go-verr.ment supervision?-A. Yes. 1087. Q. Could the Government make it self-suppo1ting if they took it over ?-r1. I am sure they could.

1088. !/;fr. Herbert. -The present recruiters must make a profit ?-A. They make a living. None of the recruiters are doing well at present. A year or two ago, when boys were coming in readily, they

did very well ir:deed. I have engaged in the busi­ ness myself, and on one or two special trips we did well indeed, but, taking it all round, it is only a

living. 1089. T lte C!iairman.-Is it your opinion that it ,rould be more satisfactory for the Governmer..t to take over the recruiting themselves ?-A. Yes, in re­ spect of, boys for miners, as there would be a better

supply. At present very few of the miners have

the number of boys they require. They require

many more. There is one thing that would induce the native to recruit, .and that is to tax him. That

would make him work. 1090. Q. You thir:k that the time has arrived

\Yhen it would be onl ' a fair thing to make the

natiYes pay a reasonable tax, and so make them pay 'for the protection given them, and it would also induce them to work ?-A. Yes. I ,Y.as here before there was a Government. Nearly all the money that

has beer. spent in this country during the last

eighteen :·ears has been on the protection of natives. 1091. Q. You n0w speak of the natives in the

sphere of Government influence ?-A. Yes. 1092. Q. Have you any suggestior.. to make as to the form the tax should take ?-A. I think money should be paid, and I do not think there hould be

anv diffi ulty in getting it. The amount would pave to be put on by degrees. The natives in all dis­

tri ts would r:ot be able to pav the same tax. In

me place it ,yould be more difficult to pay 2s. 6c1. than 1 os. in other pla"es. At 1ambare there is

41'

William Whitten, 28th Sept., 1906.

'.1othing to prevent each ~ative earning ros. by carry­ mg one_ load for the .mmers, and that would be

earned 1r. a week.

Ordinance "·bich has just been passed is . most

liberal.

1_o93. Q. ~hat would you suggest in the case of natives not bemg able to pay a money tax ?-A. The t~x should be pai? in m0ney. He could bring in

his produce, and 1t could be sold for the GoYern­ ment. Ir. cases where they can work for .a man,

such as Mambare, thev could earn the money .and p~ry the tax, or the Government could collect the money for the ·work. 1094. Q. Have you read the new Land Ordi­

nance ?--A. Yes. I helped tv pass it.

. 1095. 0. In view of the possibilib, of an ir.crease 1n. sett~ ement, and mo~e land being required, do yo:.1 t~11:k 1t would be a wise thing to have a clause pro­ vidmg for the compulsory resumption o'f land ?--A ..

Yes, because, owing to the improvement conditions men will only take up as much 1and as they ca~

cu1tivate, but later they may wish to increase' their are~s, and ther. t~e surrounding natives may, for vanous reasons, wish to block them, and may lav claim to land which they cannot use, but I woul cl

be no party to land being taken from the natives

w hirh they can use. 1096. Q. What are your views in regard to the

possibilities of plan.ting ?-A. I think there are

good prospects. I bought a property last year on

which a cocoa-nut plantation had been commenced sever.al years earlier. I was told I was a fool to

go in for a cocoa-nut plantation in New Guinea,

and that I should go to the Solomons, where there is not such restrictions on the labour, but I con­

sidered that there was as fine country in N cw

Guinea for agriculture as there is any~,,here else. There is rich ground that should grow anything of .a tropical character.

ro97. Q. Then why is it, with this rich ground,

so little has been done h ere? Why is it that men

have not come here ? Has every encouragement been .given ?-A. I think so. One or two have been re­

fuse d land, but capitalists seem to have kept away from New C ·:~:a . I cannot say why.

109B. 0. Have they had every facilit,- for get­ ting land if tfey wanted it ?-.4. All the land taken up has been taken by the same peop1e. There was some delay a few years back, but I have had every

facility. ·s ome years ago I .applied for land for

a cocoa-nut plantation, and I was told it was re­

quired for the natives. It was never used, and

s.ince then it has been granted to another applicant. That was ten or twelve ye.a.rs ago, and if I had got it it would have been b earing by now. 1099. Q. Do vou know any other instance more

recent than, that in regard to the difficulty in getting land ?-A. No; but there have been complaints as to delay in getting deeds. 1100. Q. Is not that disposed to discourage men

from coming here ?-A. I do not think so. I do

not think any men coming here to take up land,

and finding they would h.a:ve to wait such a long

time Lefore they got their deeds, would ue dis,-couraged. .

uor. Q. Would it not be a bad advertisement

for the couritrv ?-A. Certainly. The planting i,1 New Guinea 1;as all been done by residents of the country, by people with small_ capital.

1104. Q. Do you think it poss.ible, under exist­ ing- conditions, where so much land is native land, and the staff of surveyors consists of two, to pre­ Yenl these delays ?-A. The staff of surveyor~ is

small, but that will not hinder people taking up'

L:tnd. It does not seem to do so in the Solomons. uo5. Mr. H~rbert.-But there they can buy land from the chiefs, and you cannot do that here? -A. According to the Land Ordinance now, you

apply for a certain. area of land, and if the Resi­ dent I\Iagistrate is certain that the land is not re­ quired by natives it is. given at once. uo6. Q. Is there not a very small choice of land

at the present time, until surveys are carried out without making arrangements with the natives?-~ A. There is a large area unoccupied by the natives. 1107. Q. Is it Crown land ?-A. No; but in

regard 1o anv land unoccupied by natives, there ,rnuld not be any difficulty in the applicant taking the land. IIo8. Q. Tlte Clwirman.-In the event of a

settle~ coming here and taking up a piece of un­ occupied land, under the new Land Ordinance, six :11on.ths are. allowed f~r natives to lodge objections if they desire, so dunng that time the man is un­

certain whether he can get the land er not. Now

is. it reasonable to think that when a man can get so much good land at a low price in Australia

without those restrictions, you will induce any men to come here ?-A. I do not think any one would come to New Guinea with a view to takin<.r up land for agriculture, unles.s he thought that the native

labour would b2 an advantage. I 109. Q. Do you think, even with tbe advan­

tage~ offered ~n yo~1r new Land Ordinance, you are offering sufficient mducement for people to come here?-A. Ko; and I believe that the clause in the La6d Ordinance prohibiting the granting of free­

hold is for the time b eing against the best interests of the Territory, for the reason that it will be a

gr-eat <:hjf'ctio11 , in the minds of many who would otherwise bave taken u1; land, and helped in that agricultural development of the country which would be sa great a factor in the progres.s and permanencv

of rrosperity. ,

1 I Io. Q. Then you are not a believer in having merely a leasehold tenure ?-A. No; not for the present. A freehold tenure would attract people here.

II rr. Q. E\'en although the leasehold tenure is for 99 years ?-A. Yes. There is a sentiment

against it. The re- valuation of the land also

operates. with many. 1112. Q. Is there anv other matter you would

like to bring befo·:e the Commission ?-A .. The prin­ cipal industries we haYe are miniing and agricul­ ture. You cannot put gold into the countrv when it is not there, but if you have good land there is

no reason whv it should not be made use of. J113. Q. Then :mu think a vigorous policy of agriculture shoulrl be insi~ted upon ?-A. Yes. 11 r 4. (J . Do yon think there arc anv possibili­

ties for the timbers of Papua for exp~rt ?-A. I

think there are. T here Lire timbers, growinir in

this country which I think would be found of gre:,t s~rvi:::c~ on the Queei,sland railways. ru5. Q. Do lhcy grow in 1;rge quantities?J ,

A . Yes. 1J r6. Q. Would it be a goocl thing to have an

II02. Q. As one of the re~idents _wl:c' have __ rrore in for planting, do you consider this is a suitable

countrv to which men might come and invest money in pla~t.a.tions, with the hope of getting a return? -A. I am quite sure of that.

1103. Q. And men coming "·ou]d he put on the land without any vexatious delay ?-A. I am sur that every effort of the Government would be maclc to assis,t ·any applicant for land, and the Land

expert to cxami.ne and rcrort upon them ?-A. I tliinl· it mmld l:0 8. Yery gcnd idea, not only in

·eg~ucl to timber, lJut a lso if the Government could obtain the services of an expert in agric'ulture to

William Whitten, 2 th ept., 1906.

inspect the various plantations and advise the

people as to the most suitable plants and their

treatment. 1r17. Q. Do you think it would be a good thing t o ha Ye a GoYernment nursen-. in charge of such a man, " ·ho would be alwa.ys here to give practical

help ?--A. Yes. 1I18. Q. Do you think it would help the min­

ir,g industry, if a mineralogist were sent here to re­ port oni the mineral-bearing areas of Papua?­ /L To, I would rather be in favour a.f sending a

gcod prospector to these districts. Colours of gold are said to have been found on the Aird River. It

i;-; a most difficult place to get at, and the Govern­

ment onl v could do it. l l 19. 'o. Would you be i.n favour of offering

n·ry liberal inducement to prospectors to go to such country as that, and offer a reward if they dis­

cover a payable field ?-A. Ko. They might take up too much of the country, and leave nothing for any one else. I think the Government should assist prospectors. There are men who would be willing to go with slight assistance.

1 I 20. Q. Have you anything to say from the

stand-point of a commercial man ?-A. I would like to see telegraphic communication between here and Queensland. It ,rnuld not pay for a time,

but it \\'ould mean a good deal to tbe people here. u2r. Q. Would you suggest direct communica­ tion, or via Port I\loresbv ?-A. Whichever was found to be the cheaper and easier way, although we contend that Samarai is the more important

place of the two, and we should be considered

first; but that would not matter much. u22. Q. In the event of much development tak­ ing place, do you think the Island of Samarai would be large enough for the site of the Capital of this end of the Territory ?-A. I do not think it would be necessary to consider that matter for some years

to come. There is a good deal of roOiffi for build­

ings jn Samarai yet. You can get rid of the ma­

larial mosquito here, and you cannot do that on the mainland. 1I23. Q. I understand that the anchorage is not good here ?-A. It is very good indeed. You can

make this port day or night. The harbor is rather small if there was much more work going on. 1 T 14. Q. What is your opinion of Fyfe Bay as

the site for a new capital ?-A. It is a bad place

for sailing vessels to get into in certain winds,

owing ta the reef. A little further west there is an

excellent harbor-?-dullins Harbor-but it is too far away. Samanii is very central for its purpose, and most conveniently situated for the trade routes.

JOHN ALEXANDER CARPENTE~

was swDrn and examined, as follows, :-u25. T!te Clzairman.-Q. What is your name? -A. John Alexander Carpenter. II 26. Q. What position do you occupy here?­

A. I am manager for Burns, Pbilp, and Co. 1127. Q. How long have YOU been in the coun­ try ?-A. Just about four years. n28. Q. Have vou anv matters that you wish

L place before 'the Commission ?-A. Yes, t.he c1uestion of native labour. Th re appears to be a great difficulty in getting labour for mining, but for agricultural "·ork the labour is ample at the prP

~ent time. With a111y de\'elopmcnt I think there

will be a s,hortage, and I con id r that if the natives ,rer taxed in , ome way, they would ba,·e to work. a.nd that wou lcl ·he a goorl thing. 1119. (). Do ~ou ronsider that the nati,·es shc,uld be made to pay for the prot ction they r reiYe? -

A .. Yes.

u30. Q. And it would have the effect of pro­

viding ample labour should plantations be starteJ? ·--A. Yes, there is nothing at the present time to

make the native work. They haYe uffici ent food. If they were called upon to pay a tax, they ,rnuld

have to work to earn mmey to pay that tax. With­ out nati,·e labour in this place nothing can be done with the land. 1131. Q. Provided the settlers could be guaran­ teed native labour, can you see any reason why de­ Yelopment shoulJ not go ahead ?-A. Xo, I think that the country must go ahead. The present Land

Ordinance is a. liberal measure, and will be a

success, as there are no long dela.ys. 1J32. (!,. There have been delays in the past?

-.1. Yes. u33. Q. Wbo is to blame for them ?-A. I sup­ pose the Lands Department. Clients of ours have often come to me and told me that they applied for land hro years ago, and had not heard since about it.

1134. Q. So that different methods \\·ill have to be adopted before settlers can be induced to come tn Papua ?-A. Yes. They should be able to learn "·ithin a few months whether they can get the land or not.

1135. Q. Is that not rather a long time to wait?

-A. It may be. It would of course be better if

they knew in a few ,reeks. With the new Or­

dinance I cannot see "·hv settlement should not be proceeded with. There- can Le no doubt about

cocoa-nut and rubber plantations going ahead. I was at Herbertshohe some years ago, and saw the land there, and I think the land is better here.

1 I 36. Q. Is the German Government g1v111g

every encouragement to settlers there ?-A. Yes. 1137 . Q. Is there any comparison at the present time between German Kew Guinea and Papua?­ A .. From an agricultural point of view there is

none. The ,vhole of the plantations here would be lost in a corner of one plantation there. 1138. Q. Then I take it the Administration

there has been much more pro2"ressive than here?­ /l . They seem to have studied the settler more

there than here. I visited a plantation there, and

saw a road being made up to it, and found that

every time a man takes up a block of land the Go­ vernment makes a road to it by prison labour, and they are roads t.hat vehicles could be driven over. I have not been on the maicland there, so cannot

compare it ,vith the conditions that prevail here. Every encouragement is given to white settlers. u39. Q. Can you say the same in regard to

Papua up to the present ?-A. No. I think tbere

were certain restrictions in regard to lalxrnr which put men off coming here, but they have been done awar with in the new Ordinance. 1140. Q. I suppose you con sider that even with tbis new land law verv little can be done unless

the officers ,rho haYe the carrying out of it are

themselves enthusiastic in regard to the white de­ vElopment of Papua ?-A. Yes, I think so. I

think the main thing ,rnuld be the getting of the

bnd. There should be no time lo t in the officer

of the c1i.5trict going out to inspect the land applied for, and letting the man know whether he can get it or not. The Government should be in a posi­

tion to offer good land to a settler whene\'er he

rc,me fonrarcl for it. It "·ould be uicida 1 for the

Government. to sa,· they can have the land if the natives wi 11 sell it. The 1 and mu t be in th po -

S""'.. ion of the Go,·ernment befor th . eitlers com

a long, and the offir r. mu, t be able to tell them

,, hr1e it 1s, an(l n for the .-C'ttlers lo go around

and search for a suit~hlr hlork, aft r ,rhich thP

officer ha., to in , pect it and finc.1 out "lwthc>r th

n::itiYe owner will ll it or not.

43

t 14 r. Q. Do you think there is likely to be a

great deal of trouble owing to the fact that natives are claiming land which. they think is likely to be applied for ?-A. Yes, there ha Ye been cases of that already.

1142. Q. Do, y:ou think it would be a good thing to declare the whole of the lar.ids of Papua "Crown Lands," always conserving the interests of the nati~es i? the land they legitimately own ?_:_-A. Yes,

I thmk 1t would be a far better idea than the pre­

sent one.

I 143. Q. And. it would not be repudiation so far

as the natives are concerned ?--A. Xo. Ko one

here wishe:s to trespass on the rights of the natiYes. There should be more concentration in rerrard to these native villages. At present they cover ba large area of land unnecessarily.

rr44. Mr. H ierbert.-Do you know that to-day tl?ere are only 700,000 acres of good, bad, and in­ different land which can be said to be Crown bnd in Papua ?-A. I do f'Ot know the ac~eage.

1145. Q. You koow it is small ?-A. It 1s

generally understocid to be small. I 146. Q. Do you know if the Government of

German New Guinea confirms the natives there in their ownership of land ?-A. That I cannot say. From what I coi1ld hear there the land is so,ld at about 2s. a hectare. When a man takes a block

he must immediately set to work to improve it, and the Government reserves the right to take back the ~nimproved portiOIIJl at ·the original price paid for 1t.

1147. O. Is the title freehold or leasehold?-11. Freehold.

r_r'48. Q. Have they any ' system of recruiting native lahour?-A. No, they are all private re­

cruiters. They1 merely inspect the boys when thev come in, the same as the Government dces here. -II49· The Chrairman.-Do you think it would be a good thing for the Government to take over

the trarn:;port in the Northern Division ?-A. I can see no objection to it. Probablv it woold be better. There are a large number of local natives in that district who could earn,-.

rr50. Q. Do you think the transport of goods

would be more reliable ?-A. Yes. II 51. Q. Are you in favour of telegraphic com­ munication being established with Australia ?-A. It would be an advantage to the place, but . would not go anywhere near ta paying expenses.

II 5 2. Q. Do you think that the cast of the

present Administration could be reduced with­ out jmpairing efficiency ?-A. It is hard to

say. I have not seen Port .\lores by, but

ody this end. As regards this end, I think

there -are just about enough officers. They have enough work to do. I think the Service would be improved if better salaries were paid. At Wood­ lark the Assjstant Resident Iagistrate gets a

smaller salary than a working miner.

CHARLES OWEN TURNER

was sworn and examined, as follows :-1153. The Chairman.- Wbat is your name?-A. Charles Owen Turner. 1154. Q. What position do you occupy ?-A. Assistant Resident .\f agis.trate m the Eastern

Division. I 15 5. Q. How long have you been in the service

of the Government ?-A. I entered the Sen·ice the

C. 0. Turner,

28th Sept., 1906.

latter end of October, 1900, as assistant to Mr. Sur­ yeyor Rutherford. I received that appointment in B;isbane. I remained in the Lands Department until .\larch 1902. I was then appointed Assistant

Resident r.I~gistrate in the Eastern Division, 17th .\Iarch, 1902. That position I have occupied up to the present time. I was Acting Resident Magistrate from the 30th January, 1906, until Mr. Campbell's

return in September, 1906. u56. Q. I understand you haYe some matters to place before the Commission ?-A. The chief matter I wish to place before the Commission is the

fa.ct of my having been passed over and officers junior to myself appointed to higher positions. I mean that officers who had been appointed after myself were appointed to higher positions than mine. One instance js, where Mr. Manning, who ,ms appointed to the service on the 28th February,

1901, and who w.a:s only appointed Resident Magis­ trate for the Possession on the 14th November, 1903, and on the 2nd June, 1905, he was appointed Resident Magistrate in charge of the North-Eastern

Division. Another case is that of Mr. Griffin.

That officer received his first appointment in the service on the 29th July, 1904, when he was .ap­ pointed Assistant Resident Magistrate in the Nor­ thern Division. On the 12th April, 1906, he was

appointed Resident Magistrate for the Gulf Divi­ sion. Both these officers joined the Service after I did, in one case .almos,t three and a half years after, in the other only a few months after. Mr. Man­ ning was, appointed to the position of Assistant

Private Secretary on the 28th February, 1901. I wa,s appointed Assis tant Resident 1v1agistrate and Warden in the Eastern Division on the 17th March, 1902.

1 I 57. Q. Did you make any protest at the time? -A. I did not make an official protest. I went to the Governor and said that I had been passed over, and he said he was holding me over for another

position. That was, I presume, the Acting Resi­ dent l\Iagistracy of this Division. It is not the fact of making a protest or not. I was not offered the position, afrhough I had the longer service.

u58. Q. Have the authorities ever had fault to fi\1d with you ?- --A. On tl1e contrary, I ha.ve always been highly recommended, thanKed, and com­ mended. I have here a letter from Mr. Musgrave,

the Government Secretary, dated 9th September, 1903, in reply to a letter in which I asked for in­ formation concerning the advisability of getting a transfer to Africa, in which he says : '' I consider you are acquitting your,self as a reliable and zealous officer." I have also a letter from Sir George Le

Hunte, dated 17th March, 1902, in which he states: " I am glad to get a gentleman who I can depend on into the Magistracy, which is our executive branch.'' That was written when I was appointed.

1159. Q. In spite of the Governor's statement to you that he was holding you over for another posi­ tion, you .are still an As•sistant Resident Magistrate? -A. Yes, and two officers who were junior to me

have been appointed Resident Magistrates and re-ceive £7 5 a year more than I do. '

n6o. llfr. H erbert.-In point of age, what is th difference ?- A. I am 33. l\Ir. l\Ianning's

age I take to be about 23 or 24, and Mr. Griffin

I should take to be about 34 or 35.

r 161. T!te C l!airman.-Did you make an,· protest against .\Ir. Griffin 's appointment not having been o ffert>

and explained the matter to him, and he said I was still to ·keep the position of Assistant Resident

0. 0. Turner.

2'th ,cept., 1906.

44

i\fagistrate. He said the head of the channel had been closed, .and I would ham to keep my present position. 1 understand that in referring to the

head of the channel he meant :\Ir. i\lusgrave, and there was no other chance. 1162. Mr. Okcden.--Did the fact of your bein 5 married enter into the calculations at all ?~-A. J cannot say. Sir G. Le Hunte knew I was married,

and he told me that be had appointed me to this

place because 1 was a married man. II63. Mr. Herbert.-Would it have entailed any extra expense to the Government, you occupying this position and being a married man ?-A. I do not .

think so. 1164. Tlte Cltairman.-You said you had been .assistant to Survevor Rutherford ?-A. Yes, and I am capable of doing a certain amount of survey

work. II65. Q. Have either 1fr. Manning or Mr.

Griffin any similar experience ?-A. I co not think so. Mr. Griffin has been an .army officer. I do

·all the ·land purchas.ing in this Division. Mr. Camp­ bell leaves it to me. II66. Q. What other matters do you wish to

place before us ?--A. That is the chief one. An­

other is in regard to the occupatioo of the Residency. The usual course is that when a.n officer has been appointed Acting Resident Magistrate he occupies the Residency of the Division to which he has been

appointed. In my letter of ins,tructions from Cap­ tain Barton, the Administrator, to take over this Division when Mr. Campbell went on leave, it is stated : " You will not occupy the Government

Residency .a.t Samarai, pendiing further instruc­ tions." I wrote to Captain Barton personally, and asked hi.m the reason. I had heard it stated that

the reason was that a si.ster-in-law of mine was to be married, and her intended had stated they were going to have a high time at the Residency when thev were married. In mv letter to Captain Barton

I s.a.id that was a 1ie .. Captain Barton, when be

replied to me, said that that was not the reason.

As it is the usu.al thing for Acting Resident 1Iagi.s­ trates to .occupy the Residency, I had gone to some expense in anticipation. When Captain Barton came here I asked him about it, and he would give me no reason. The fact of my not having occupied

it has, belittled me both in the e-res of the settlers .anct the natives. The house was lock'ecl u.p the

whole of the time Mr. Campbell was away. n67. The Witness.-The third matter is, I wr1s told to take charge of this Divisicin when Ur. Camp­ bell went on leave. He left on the 31st Januar?,

1906, and the Colonial Office regulation is that ,

1 hilst an officer on leave is drawing full pay, the officer relievim: him shall not receiYe anv further increase in sal;ry, although I was given to under­

stand that I was to receive 7,100 per annum -while I was relieving Mr. Campbelt. A regulation states that lea,·e granted to officers in the Central Division will commence from the date of their departure from

Port Ioresby. Le:1.ve granted fo officei;s of the Eastern and other Divisions, will dale from the date of their departure from Samarai. Wnen I wrote to ~Ir. 1usgrave stating That I had received no extra salary, I received a letter saying that Mr. Campbell

had received full · alary up to the 4th May, whereas he should have received full salary only up to 30th April. When I was awav on lPave I was a,Ya\'

ni.ne or ten da,·s oYer rnv.time, and received 0111;-half pay

were no quarters for me to occupy, and when J

\Yent to the Acting Administrator, Sir F. Winter, in )fay and asked him about quarter , and told him there were no quarters here, he said he would make me a temporary allowance of £25. Several times

I have complained that this £25 is not enough to pay rent, and that the lowest I have paid is £36.

n69. The Cltairman.-Then, according to your statement, you practically lose £1 r per year ?-A. Yes. 1170. illr. Herbert.-What is your sal::try?-A.

£225, after six years' service. 1171. !lfr. Okeden.-And )Ir. )fanning and Mr. Griffin get £300 each ?-A. Yes. It would be

absolute] y impossible for me to live up to my posi-tion if I had no other means.

1172. Tlte Cltairman.-Would £25 pay for quarters ?-A. For six months I was paying £52 a year for quarters, and received only £25. I

ha-re not paid less than £36, and in my letter of

appointment I was promi•sed quarters. The letter is dated 17th March, 1902, and it distinctly states that the ·sa.lary of the office is £zoo per annum and quarters are allowed. rt is signed by the Govern-ment Secretary.

II7 3. Mr. Okeden.-Was the Administrator here in Samarai when he told you you could not occupy the Residency ?-A. I saw him on the Merrie Eng­ land at the time, and just:.. before I left the boat,

he called me into his cabin and gave the letter to

me. I had no time to react it thoroughly before I

left. 1174. Q. Did you write to the head of your De­ partment" on the matter ?-A. I wrote straight to the Governor, because I got the letter from the Go­ vernor, and the last words 11.e said to me when I

left the Merrie England were: " Do not be afraid to write to me if there is anything to worry you.''

I did write, when he said that the reason I had

heard was not the right one. II75· Mr. Herbert.-Have you ever brought the matter of your rent before fhe Administrator ?-A. Yes, on several occasions.

1176. Q. With what result?-A. Without any result. The only thing I was led to understand was that I could not expect quarters because I was a

married man. Then I asked why was I not paid

.£36, the same amount that is paid to other officers for quarters. Dr. Craigen, as far as I know, is

the only officer who received an allowance for rent, and he received £36 at Port foresby. In reply

to the insinuation of the Administrator that I was a married man, I may say that Sir G. Le Hunte,

who appointed me, knew I was a married man.

THE HONORABLE ALEXA DER MALCOLM CAMPBETJL, M.L.C.,

was further examined, .as, follo,Ys :-II 77. The Clwirnzan.-)1r. Turner is an officer under you ?-A. Yes. 1 q8. Q. Have you found him to be a capable

and effi cient officer ?- A. Yes, :i.t all times.

u79. Q. And loyal ?-A. Yes. n8o. Q. Are you perfectly -A. Yes. ati fied with him?

1 18 r. Q. Do you con . itler th.:i.t :ITr. Turner would

fit to undertake the duties of a Re ident fagis­ trate-?-A. Yes, certainly.

45 R,ev. C. W. Abe1, '29th Sept., l!ld6.

NINTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 29rn SEPTK\IBER, 1906.

(Trm COMMISSION M:ET AT THE STATION OF THE LONDON MISSIONARY SocI1ETY, KwATO.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. ~IACKAY, C.B., M. L. C. (Chairman) ; ·

W. E~. P~rry-Okeden, Esq., J.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE REV. CHARLES WILLIAM ABEL was sworn and examined, as follows,:-u82. Tlze Chairman. - 'What is your name? -A. Charles William Abel. " '

u8_3 .. Q. Wh~t position do you occupy here? --­ A. M1ss10.:1ary of the London Miss:'Ona.ry Society. I 184. Q. How long have vou been in this coun­

try ?-'--A. Nearly sixteen year's. II~S· Q. J?o you think it would be practicable and m the interests of the natives if some form

of taxation were imposed upon those tribes within the sphere of the Government's influence ?-A. Yes. I have always held the opinion that taxation, should be applied to the natives under the influence of the

Governr:1ent, such as those about Port Moresby and Samara1. You would have to begin very cautiously, and extend it as the influence of the Governme{1t

extended. It would be almost impossilble to apply the same rule to a place like Tufi, where the Go­ vernment has not been settled· so long as it has here. II 86. Q. Would the taxation have a beneficial effect upon the natives by making them more in­

dustrious ?-A... That would depend upon the form the taxation took. I should say that it should ta.ke the form of developing nati1ve lands and cocoanut plantations. The natives understand the planting

of cocoanuts to some extent. They do not ander­ stand it scientificalJy, but they couTa be taught. ~ f the Government compelled the natives to pay a

tax, by making them form cocoa.nut plantati()II1s of a certain area, the natives would in a few years see the advantage derived from the copra' produced to the Government, and would be induced to make

plantations of their mvn. The nrime idea of taxing the natives. would be, not to increase the revenue, but to induce the natives to be industrious j but as time went on it would, of course, increase the reve­

nue. u87. Mr. Herbert.-That ·wo uld hardly be taxa­ tian, would it ?-A. N'o; but it would tend to teach the natives industry.

u88. Q. Is yo{ir scheme to form Government

plantations, the natives to work in them without pavrnent ?-A. Yes. ; r 8 9. Q. Then your form of taxation would be

a period of compulsory labour to the Government each vear?-A. Exactlv. 1190. Q. Preferably on plantat:

themselves to their own benefit, and the benefit of the country generally. 1191. The Chairman.- --Have yon read the new Land Ordinance ?-.4 .. No j but I ·have heard of it.

1192. Q. With the object of inducing a desirable class of settlers to oome to New Guinea, I take it

that you are of opinion that no delay should occur in dealing with applications for land ?- A. Neces­ sarily there must be some d elay in a country like

this. If a man selected a piece of land, it take s

:some time before it could be found out whether the natives would part with it.

1193. Q. Do you think that difficulty could be

got u , er by declaring the whole of the lands of

.Paptw. · " Crown lands, " always reserving for the nati ,·es the land which they at present legitimatelv o_-2c upy, or e_ven give them doubl_e the area they legi­

timately claim at the prese nt time? - A. That is

quite a new idea to me. I would Uke to think it

O\'er. It seems to me a very fair arrangement. 1_194. Q. Is it a fact that, particularly of late,

nat~ves have been in the habit of claiming land

winch for many years they have not used, or laid any claim to, in times gone by ?-A. I do not know of anv definite cases of that kind. r J 9'5. Q. Do you think there is a. possibility of

that sort of thing taking place under existing condi­ t:ons ?- A. Yes, I do.

1196. Q. Do you think that might prove a areat barrier to legitimate white settlement ?- A. Yes~ un­ ~lo;..1btedly. I think it would be a very wise thing 1f. the Government w_ere to do what they: could to

br~ng the scattered villages together whi1ch may be tlnnly _popul~t~d. . A large valley may be populated by natives hvmg m groups of five or six. Under

those circumstances, jt is very difficult to admini'ster law to them, and it would be very much better if

tl:ey wer~ broug_ht together and formed into large villages m restnctecl areas, which should be sur­ Yeyed a.:i1~ marked off from the remaini1ng; unoccupied la~d, wh1~h should be Crown land. I have in my

mmd a. piece of land to which attention wa.s drawn by Mr. Atl~e Hunt. It is the valley of Buhutu,

ab?ut 30 miles ~ong by about 9 miles bmad. I ap­ phe_d to the directors of the London Missionary S?c1~ty for European missionaries to take up that d1stnct. In that case I think the Government would find it difficult to declare that land Crown land be­ cc1.~se it is all occup;ed by this very scattered p

1

opu­

lat10n .. They w~ll not cultivate the one garden two years m success1_on. Th~y are really nomads j but 1t would b~ possible to brmg them together and give them su~c1ent land for their purposes1 and declare

the remainder Crown land. I am referring, of

course, to the people in the vallev. 1197. lib. Herbert.-How mti'ch of that vallev would it take to support the whole of the inhabf-13.nts of that valley ?-A. Approximately, one-fifth

,~oulo be ample. It would be impossible to shift a village from the coast, as the villagers would not move from the place where their ancestors were born, but there is not the same feeling amongst

these inl.anders. They are here to-day and further up the valley to-morrow. 1198: Q. Ta!<:ing that valley as an instance,

would 1t be fau and desirable for the Government to declare that valley Crown land, and afterwards ~o reserve a cert~in portion of it for the natives,

mstea~ of followmg the yresen.t course, wh:ch is to recogmse all land as native land except so much as hereafter. shall be declared to be Crown land ? - ­ A .. Certamly

1199. The Clzairman.-Do you think t hat the present systei:n of recruiting is sati'sfa ctory 2 s 1e­ gards the natives ?-A. N o, I do not. 1.200. Q. Do you think it would be bette r for the native~, and more _in the interests of the best cl" ss

of white settle rs, 1f the Government were to t ake over the wh?le of the recruiting ?- A. I have a hrnn held that vrew. ·

1201. Q. I understand you have taken a con-

siderable interest in the timber q t· ? A \ ' ues 1011 . - r.1. es, as applie d to this di trict. 1202. Q. Have you found the local timber satis­ facto ry ?- A. Yes, as reg,ards qualitv. I think it

compares very favorably with the tii'.nber imported. __ 12~3. Q. Do you thi~k a s,uffici ent quantit v o f

tl11s t1mber rould be obtarned to commence an export trade ?- A. Not from this part.

Rav. CJ. \ • Abaf,

29th ept., 1906.

1204. Q. Ha,·e you heard that there are large quantities in other parts of Papua ?- A . Mr. 1\[t, \\· -on, ,rho appears to b2.Ye been ac<]_uainted ·.rith the timber indu try befor coming here; asked me if I

,rn'Jld buy some logs from him, which he_ s_aid ,1:n e got from the Gulf. He said large quantities r-c,uld be got there. }lr. English also said he had a lot

of ced3.r from the Kemp Welch RiYer, as well as soft woo d. I am surprised at the quantity of

timber here. 1'.:!05. Q. Do you think it ,rnuld 'be a good t~ing

to send a timber expert here to go th<;>roughl): rnto the question of the quality and quantity of tunber in Papua?-A. Yes; that is the only way to get

relialile information on the subject. 1206. Q. Is there any other matter you would

like to put before the Commission ?-:4. It . would be a very advisable thing if, in connex10n with the Government, some officer were appointed to come here and thoroughly investigate this country from

an agricultural stand-point. If a settler comes. here he must spend a lot of time in finding out suitable land for his purposes. If a map were drawn out

by an expert, showing the available lands and what they ,rere suitable for- sugar, cocoanuts, rubber, or other products-I think it ,rnuld faciEtate settle­ ment ,:erv much.

1207. ·Q. Do you consider that it would be a wise thing for the Government to start a State nursery, to be in charge of a man of that type, ,rho would

not only give that information, but also, by prac­ tical illustrat:on, show settlers the best methods f?r producing those crops, and also supply th~m rn manv cases with the plants to make a sta!rt with?­ A. i do indeed.

1208. Mr. Okeden.--You suggested that a map should be prepared showing the available !a.n.ds. Does not that raise the question of the acqms1U::m of the land before they could point out what la~1d

was available ?-A. I pointed out to Mr. Deakin, years ago, that they should declare all unoccu~ied lands Crown lands. As vears went on, the natives became aware that land ·was marketable, and that thev could claim lands which were really Crown ] anc-ls.

TENTH DAY.

TUE DAY, 2ND OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE OFFICE OF THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE, SAMARA!.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., I.LC. (Chairman); W E. Parrv-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., 1[r. Justice .. C. E. Herbert,

)Ir. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

WILLIAM JOHN DURIETZ was sworn ancl examined, as follows:-r 209. Tile Clwirman.-What is your name ?-A. William T ohn Duri tz

r2ro. Q. What is your cccupation ?- A. Digger, on the Gira rrold-fi ld. 12rr. Q. How long haYe you been n the field? A. bout three years.

1 2 1 2. Q. Ts th re anything you woukJ ]jk to

plare beforf' the ommission ?- A. Yes, in regard to the state of the roads.

a

r 213. Q. In p aking are you giving u the view

of a nutnGer of other digg rs ?-A. That is a cer·

taint\' . 12·1.4. Q. Do you find that the pre ent state of

the roads is a hard hip ?- A. Y s. The road to the

field has in three years been repaired temporarily twice. The first time it was rep aired ,ms when

Bishop Stone-Wig~ visited the fi eld. The next

time was ,rhen Senator Smith visited the field. 1215. Q. Do you wish the Commission to under­ stand that, in your opinion, the road was repaired simply because first a Bishop and then a Senator ,ms going up the road ?- A. Decidedly.

1216. Q. What is the present condition of the

road ?- A. It is worse than ever. The logs over the creeks are rotten. I am speaking of the roaJ from Tamata to Gira. A length of J! miles to the

police station is kept in splendid condition. The length of 15 miles from the police station to Gira is bad. 1217. Q. Are there any great engineering diffi­ culties to be met on that piece of road ?- A. No,

simply steep creeks. You could fall a log across

any of them and put a hand ,rire across. There

is a wire across one creek between the police station and Tamata. 12r8. Q. What would you sugges.t the Govern­ ment should do ?-A. Kew logs should be put across

the creeks and lengths of wire stretched over to

enable men to walk over. A man with boots on

cannot walk across those Jogs like a boy with his bare feet. 1219. Q. Is the present condition of the road

at times dangerous ?-A. Without doubt. You

throw away several chances of your life eYery time you go across. 1220. Q. Do mu think it would be to the ad­

vantage of the diggers if the Government were to undertake the whole of the transport ?-A. If it

would not interfere with private enterprise. r221. Q. Do you think it would be better in the

diggers' own interests ?- A. Yes, certainly it would. That is my individual opinion. 122 2. Q. Do you think that in the int•erests of

the diggers it would be a good thing for the Go­

vernment to undertake the whole of the recruiting for the gold-fields ?-A .. If \they undertook the whole thing, and carried it out it would, in my

opinion, be more satisfactory for the digger. 1223. Q. As a practical man, can you suggest

any amendment of the present law which would be desirable ?-A. I cannot. I am fairly satisfied

with the Qqeensland mining law, which exists here. 1224. Q. Supposing the Government were to send over a first class geologist, "·hose duty it would be to explore the country and map out the various

parts that contain minerals, showing where the in­ dications point to a certain mineral being found ? - -A. It would be a very good thing because it

would tend to encourage capitalists to come here and deYelop the country properly. r 2 2 5. Q. Do pro pector get any reward at the

present time ?- A. Yes. I ,rnu]d mak no further

sugg stion that ,my. r 226. Q. Then, summing up, you on ider that,

o far as the mining laws of the country are on­

cerned the min r is treated fairly at the pre nt

time ?- A. Yes. I do.

1227. Q. I anr of th rountry about the Gira

suitable for grazing purpo ?- A. It i all scrub

country. It would be plendid grazing ountry if

th scrnb were cleared. 12 28. Q. Is th re any (JUantitr of mark table

hardwood timber in that part of the countr · ?-A. Yes, ther i fairly good cru tim r. It is about

41

lhe same as the Queensland scrub timber, with an odd cedar tree. 1229. Mr. Oked'cn.-What security have you in regard to the gold being brought down ?-A. We bring it down to the steamers ourselves.

1230. Q. Is it brought down under ,escort?-A. There is no risk there. A good bov would take the gold down himself quite safeh·. -1231. Q. And is that done sometimes ?-A. Yes. There is a loss sometimes. You will bear of that

at Buna Bay. 1232. Mr. H erbert.-Is it all alluvial mining in the Korthern Distiict ?-A. Yes. 1233. Q. And, therefore, there · are no mining

leases applied for and issued ?-A. They are all claims. There are no leases on the Gira. · 1234. Q. And, therefore, the question of the

native ownership of the lands on which the mines are worked has not yet been raised ?-A. No. r235. Q. Have any mining leases been issued

in New Guinea yet ?-A. Yes, at Woodlark, but none on the mainland. 1236. The· Chairman.--Do you believe that, at the present time, electoral representation should be given in connexion with the Legislative Council? -

A. I certainly do.

r 237. Q. Are you satiisfied \with the nominee

system ?- A. No. 1238., Q. Do you think tihe time has ,arrived

when trial by jury should be instituted -11. Yes. 1239. Q. Have you any fault to find with the

present administration of affairs ?-A.. I have no complaint to make against any individual, but I do not agree with the administration on the whole. 1240. Q. Why ?-A. Say the natives are troub­

ling you. Then the Magistrate comes out with

some police, and he just simply chases the boys, trying to catch prisoners. In the meantime, the

bovs are robbing camps. 124 1. Q. What would you suggest as an improve­ ment ?-A. There is only one way of doing it, and that is to chase them out of the district-disperse them.

1242. Q. Is not that what you say the :Magis­

trate is doing ?-A. No; he is only trying to catch prisoners. 1243. Mr. H erbert.-What do you mean by dis­ persiw{ them ?-A. Well, I mean they should be fired at, or something like that.

1244, ll1r. Okeden.-You sa;y the :natives are troubling you, and when you complain the police come and chase them. What is the trouble ?-A. When I sent for'tne police, they were out next day.

They werie on the road to Aikora. 1245. Q. But what w':s the off enc~ that the boys committed ?-A. _They tned to brea.k mto the houses. They speared a dog in two places, and chased my

native bovs. 1246. Q_. And you think the offi?er of police

should have done more than he did ?-A. Yes.

That afternoon they speared a carrier and killed him. I sent for the police before the boy was

speared. They came out next day, just as we were burying the boy. · -

12 ,1-7. Mr. Herbert.- You say that. you _were not s:ltisfied with what the officer of police did. Who was the officer ?-A. Mr. Bell, at Tamata. 1248. Tlze· Chairman.- When you sent word to the police officer, was there any delay ?-A. o.

He came to m,· place, and told me he would try

and catch the boy. He bad strict orders not to fire on them. 1 249 . Q. How long ago was that?- A. Ahout

nine or ten weeks ago. I am not blar~nng )Jr. B.ell 011 this occasion. It is the whole business - the in -structions that they get.

W. j, bul'iatil, 2nd Oct., 1906.

1250. Mr. fl erberl.-Are not these instructions that they are not to fire upon the natives un]ess the natives fire upon them first?-A. Yes.

JOHN CLUNN, JUNR.,

was sworn and examined, as follows:-1251. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. John Clunn, junr. 1252. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. Planter and property owner.

1253. Q. How long have you been in this coun­ try ?-A. About 11 or 12 years. -1254. Q. How long hive you been engaged in planting ?-A. Three and a-half years.

1255. Q. Have you any grievances to put for- . ward ?-A. The Legislative Council has, within the last week or so, wiped out all grievances I had or knew of.

1256. Q. Have you any suggestions to make in regard to the future development of Papua ?-A. I have had experience both in T orthern Queens­ land and ~ew Guinea of 32 years, and I think the Administration has been backward in opening up the country, although you must recollect that the Administrator has been hampered during the last three years by the Federal Government.

1257. Q. What would you suggest to alter the present unsatisfactory state of affairs ?-A. I sug­ gest that the country be opened up by tracks, or

where practicable roads. In fact, I suggest a

vigorous roads policy. 1258. Q. I take it you mean to open up roads

not only to gold-fields but to country suitable for agriculture ?--A. Yes, for agricultural and pastoral settlement. 1259. Q. Have you any further suggestion to make ?-A. If we could only get passable tracks,

and· the country !explored, settlement would soon follow. 1260. Q. Have you any suggestion to make in regard to the land laws ?-A. None now, as I con­ sider the present land la,vs here the most liberal laws in the world. I am perfectly satisfied with

them. There is, however, the question of labour to cultivate the land. The one is of no use with­

out the other. 1261. Q. Have you ,any suggestion to make in regard to the supply of labour ?-A. No. What I came here to-day for is principally to suggest the

taxation of the natives in some form or other. I

have spoken to Government officials, but they are against it. In Ceylon the natives pay a tax of

2s. 4d. per ye.a.r. There is, native taxation in

Zululand, Natal, Fiji, and German Kew Guinea. If they can work those countries with taxation, why not let us make a start in a small way ? I do not

say tax the savage. I suggest it as a source of

revenue, and as a benefit to the native himself.

We should tax every able-bodied man in a settled district. I would suggest 5s. each on the natives from E1ast ,Cape to South Cape. Taxing the na­ tive would make him industrious. It has been done in other places, and we can do it here. I have ob·

tained statistics from the Government officers , and estimate that within a radius of 50 miles from

Samarai ,th~: natives e arn betw een £5,000 and £6,000 per annum in cash. The Govern ment offi­ cials say that there would be a diffi cul ty in collect­ ing the tax. T:he fact of the ma tter is that it

would put a little more work on their shoulders, but it could be done in their periodical trips round their districts. They just see what the natives

are doing, and how they are gettin g on, and it

would be quite easy for them to coll ect the t ax as they are travelling round. The natives would all

.tohn Clunn, j\Jll., 2nd Oot., 1906.

48

be able to pay it. Samarai is the centre of the

trade of 1 ew Guinea, and no matter wllat part

labour is 1•equired for, they come here. The

nati,·es come 11ere in canoes, and cannot make the excuse that they cannot get work. I know the

nati,,e ,rell, and know his habits, and I think that if they were to make a trial of taxation, although there would be a little difficulty during the first year or so, it would be a success. You can teach the

native everything, and after a year or two you

would find him at the door with his 5s. tax. It

is very easy to make roads. 1\lr. Campbell started to make a road from East Cape to South Cape and round Rogeia and Sariba I slancls. If it were not for the mouths of the rivers, I could drive a buggy

from East to South Cape. There was some diffi­ cultv at first in getting the natives to work, but

as soon as they found that 1\Ir. Campbell was in · earnest, they did it. At my place, there was a

mile and a-half of road to make, and Mr. Camp­ bell told the natives that they would have to make it. They hesitated at first, but very soon did the

work. if the natives did not pay any tax that

was fixed, they should be made to work on the

roads. 1262. Mr. Okeden.--What time would you allow a boy to work out his 5s. tax ?-,1. I would make

him do a month, and let him keep himself. I

would not take him awa v from his own village.

From 1\lilne Bav to Soutl{ ,Cape I am certain there are 1,000 able-bodied lo1fers. The women do the work. 1263. Tlte Clzairman.-Then you consider tl:at

the present system is tending to make the native more slothful and useless than he was, originally? -A. Emphatically yes. 1264. Q. And you propose this system of taxa­

tion largely in the best interest of the nafr•;es them­ selves ?-A. Yes, for their benefit. 1265. Q. Is there anything further ?-A. Yes, in regard to the Tariff. Although we are part and

parcel of Australia, we are treated as a foreign

country. I have experimented in maize for the

last three years, and there is no time when we can­ not grow it. The maize crop . comes ~n in New

South Wales in March and Apnl, and m Queens­ land a month Later. From November to the end of March there is a scarcity of com in Australia,

and the price goes high. I would like the present

Tariff Tu· remain as it is, but for them to give us

a show during the time corn is scarce in Australia, that is to give us a certain preference over other

outside places. In this way ,Ye would not b:!

pitting our black labour against the white labour of Australia. 1266. Q. As this country is a Territorv of the

Commonwealth, you think it would be a fair thing to have a preferential tariff in yom favour and

against ether outside pla~es ?-A. Yes, so long as it does not come -info conflict with wbite Australian labo~r. I would be dead against it any other way. 1267. lllr. Herbert.-You are more Australian

than Papuan ?--A. Certainly I am, but I have

made my home here, and intend to live and die

here. 1268. The Clzairman.-Is there .anything else you wish to say ?-A. We import at the present time .£6,ooo worth of native food into Samarai in the

shape of rice. In this immediate district maize

arows splendidly, two and a-half crops a year, and I would suggest that as some time elapses in the ca.se of plantations before any return is derived. that something should be used as a catch crop, and

that the Gm'.e rnment 8hould buv this maize from the planters as food for the natives in gaol and

other places. I !1ave already offered to supply

maize meal at a muc:h low r price than they can

import rice for, and if I can get sufficient encout­ agement I will be prepared to put up steam mach­ inery for treating the maize. 1269. Q. Do you know ,yhether the native would

readily take the maize meal as a food instead ot

rice ?-A. My experience is only with my mrn boys on the plantations. I haYe given them this fot· !

and they eat it greedily.

ISADORE HERSCHTEL

·was further examined, as follows:-1270. Tlte Cltairman.-l understand you wis:1 to make a further statement?-A. Yesj 1 wish to say that although the present trader does trade

away a lot of tobacco, be trades aw.ay very little of it for the purchase of pearls. That takes place

only four months a year. With the tobacco be

buys beche-de-mer, copra, and other products. 1271. Q. You wish to have only a lease for

pearls, and that would not interfere ,\'ith other

traders dealing with those other articles ?-A. Thnt 15 so.

SAMUEL PIERSON HAUGHTON was sworn and examined, as follows:-1272. !1/r. 0/uden.-What is your fuli name?-­ A. Samuel Pierson Haughton.

1273. Q. What positior.s do you hold ?-A. Sub­ Collector of Customs, Postmaster, Shipping l\lasttr, and Assistant Health Officer. 127 4. Q. You are desirous of placing some evi­

dence before us ?-A. Yes. I was appointed here on the IIth .May1 1903, at .£250 a year and a resi­ dence. I am 52 years old. l understood verbally

from Su George Le Hunte that as long as my

work was done satisfactorily I was to receive a rise of .£25 a year up to .£350 as a maximum. Whe1! I arrived at Port Moresby the officials there ap­ parently did not want me. It interfered with the

arrangements they pad made. Another man, 1\Ir. Robertson, had been appointed. 1275. Q.. What caused you to come to that con­ clusion ?-A. I was r.ot treated even with common

civility when I landed. 1276. Q. Does that refer to all the service ?-A. No, to the Senior Officer of the Treasury. My ap­ pointment w.as a definite one of Sub-Collector at

Samarai, but he sent for me in a peremptory man­ ner, and said to .me that as my salary had com­

mer.ced I would have to work, and he put me to a junior clerk's work at Port Moresby when I had

been appointed to Samarai I had various inter­ views with him, and asked him if he would kindly instruct me as to the nature of my duties, and the only instructions which I received 'from him were

the prir.ted instructions handed to all officers 011 their appointment, which had no special reference to my duties. These were handed to me only half­ an-hour before I left on the Merrie England to come here. I was there a little more than a week.

I asked for interview with Mr. Ballantir.e, but did not get them. 1277. Q. Was any reason given fo you?--A. 'o. I 278. Q. Have you any knowledge of any rea­

son ?-A. No. On my arriv?.l here 1 ca.me up with Sir George Le Hunte, and )Ir. Robertsor:, who was acting as Sub-Collector here, immediately resigned. There was only another as istant here. I aw Sir

George Le Hunte, and he had an interview \Yith l\lr. Robertson, and ).fr. Vi\'iar. the Second ... lerk, in

connexion with the change. In ronnexion with that foterview, he wrote m a memo. to the !Teet tlut

I was to put one room in my quarters at 1 r.

49 S. P. Haughton, 2nd Oct., 1906.

Robertsor.'s disposal, and so long as the fourth room was not occupied, it was to be placed at l\lr.

Armit's disposal. Subsequently l\lr. l\IacAlpine, Mr. Campbell's assistant here, was given quarters in my building without reference to me, leaYing one room only for myself. He was sent there by l\lr.

1:3allantir:e. I applied to have the original condi­ tion of three rooms to myself carried out. I in­

tended to get married, but could not bring her up to one room. Before leaving for my holidays 1::tst ;,;ear l wrote asking that the condition that three rooms should be allowed should be carried out, and

was told that the conditior..s o'f the service would not permit of it being done. In the event of my get­

ting married, another room would be placed at my disposal. The quarters are not mine-thev are

simply the bachelors' quarters. ,

127 9. Q. Were there any arrangements made be­ fore you came here that you were to be married,

and vYould require quarters?-A. I told Sir George Le Hur:te that I was not likely to remain a

bache1or. 1280. Q. Is there .anything else ?-.4 . I am s.till getting £250 a year, and every man who came up with me has received an increase. The Com­

mandant is receiving £300 a year and full quar­ ters. Mr. Higginson h1s recer.tly got an increase of £so, and Mr. Jewell <.1lso has received an in­ crease. :My junior officer has received three rises of

;f, 2 5 each sine:(; I came here, and m v other a:ssistant got £25. T got n0 increase, and, in fact, was cut

dowr. in the matter of (1Uarters. I wrote direct to the Governor, and the letter was returned by ihe

head of my Department, and I _ received a repri­ mand for writing direct. I said that I had placed

the matter before the head of my Department be-'fore, and that the Colonial Service Rule was that when an officer had a grievance a~air.st a senior ufficer, he had the right t0 apply direct t0 thP Ad­

ministrator. and th::ct is where the matter :now

rests. The Engineer on board· the Ruby gets --(2 more :i year than I do. He gets £200 and £52

:1llowan;e . I get no allowance. My assistant gets £200 and overtime, amounting to £50 or £60 a year, which oractically brings his salary uo to mine. I .am not allowed to charge overtime. On one or

two occasions I have charged a fee for attendance ,11·1 Sundav. The Sub-Collector at Daru, \fr.

Symons, receives £27 5 and full quarters, ,and he c:,llerts ;l"-1so a. year compared with mv £12,000. 1281. //fr. Herbert.-Does he fill any other posi­ tion as weJ l as Sub-Collector and Postmaster ?-A.

Y c:s, he 1s also Assistant Resident Magistrate. 1282. Q. And you are r..ot?-A. No. He does

not collect the expenses of his office. My position was rather a weak one until the Comm011wealth Officer came here. He has been five weeks going through mv books, and I am satisfied he will re­

port favorably. Before that Mr. Ballantin.e brought :t number of charges .agair:st me. I demed them, and he suspended me. 1283. Mr. Okeden.-What year was that ?-A. The inquiry was held on the 26th December, 1903,

just six months after I came here. He wanted to

transfer me to Port Moresby at a reduced salary. That is in writina. I demanded an ir..quiry, which was granted to .~e. It was held in this ?ffice by

the Governor 1r1 Council who went folly mt0 the matter, and spent five or' six hours over it, .with the result fi1at I was reir.stated the next mormng, and ~fr. Robertson, who was my assistant, and was kept

here :-igainst m,· will, sent in his resignadon. I had previously suspended him for being drunk and making mistakes, for which I was blamed. 1284. Q. Before that occurred, had you .made representations that the man was not suitable ?-A. No. I had mentioned lhe matter to the Acting Ad-

F.14262.-D. ·

rmmstrator, Mr. Robinson, in a private conversation. ~ly evidence given here during the inquiry was, ie my opinion, damaging to Mr. Ballantine. It was so strong in some things that he withdrew· from the

Council while I was givir..g it, and he told me that it was unnecessary to go into the charges I was mak­ ing, as there was nothing against my character and integrity. He said that in the Council room. I

said that I preferred to go on with them, ar..d I

went on with the charges, and he subsequently left the room. The Judge said he did not think it neces­ sar1• to go on with the charges, .and the inquiry then closed. Since ther. I have had no rise in my salary>

and they have tried to cut me down. While I was away on my holidays last year, by Mr. Ballantine's instruc:tions all the creepers were t.:ut down in .my garden, leaving it as bare as a barrack. The

charges he brought against me were absolutely false. 1285. Mr. Okeden.-Have you applied person­ ally to 1\fr. Ballantine or the Governor in regard to your sa.lary ?-A. Yes, quite recently. The Go­ vernor says he cannot give it to me unless it is re­ commended by the head of rr.y Department.

1286. Q. Have you had any interview with Mr. Ballar,.tine on the subject ?-A. Not since that. Not recentlv. 1287- Mr. H erbert.-Since the inquiry into those c::··.arges against you, has there been any complaint

b:, the head of your Department against you ?-A. );°0 , not in any way except ie minor departmental thin r:s of no importance. 1238. Mr. Okeden.-Have you anything else to

say ?-A. Since I have been here the revenue has gone up from £9,000 to £12,000, and I have the :;ame staff.

THE' IIONORABLE ALEXANDER MALCOLM CAMPBELL, M.L.C., was further examined, as follows :-1289. The Clzairman.-Do you find that in · your Division the natives are beginning to 1ay claim to unoccupied lar:d more readily than they used to?­ A. They- are spreading out, and occupying land which was unoccupied by them .a few years ago.

1290. Q. Have you any specific cases of that

sort ?- A. Yes, on the north-east coast, where,

until very recently, land was unoccupied for years until ar. application was put in for 160 acres by a European, and shortly after I 'found a village of about five houses there. When I went to measure off the land the natives said it belonged to them. I asked them what right they had to it-had they ::ver cultivated it? They said, No. I asked if

they had hunted on it, and they answered r:o. I

asked them how they, then, could substantiate their claim, and they said that sometimes they used to co.me down to the beach to collect shell-fish. I

asked them if it was not a fact that they had come down and built the village simply because they had learned that a white man was going there. After some hesitation they said, " Yes, that was so.'' The

village is still there, but the white man got the land, because, after what thP. y had said to me, I con­ sidered they could not substantiate their claim, and I gave the land to the white man.

1291. Q. Do you anticipate any difficulties from the natives when white men come ir. and take up land ?-A. I do not think the natives .are favorable to the white men coming- on the land. I think there 1Yi ll be trouble in acquirir.g land.

r292. Q. You have a good deal of prison labour in Samarai ?-A. Yes. 1 293. Q. What are you doing with it ?-A. We

are building wharfs, reclaiming the foreshore, put­ ting up a building for the Special Hospital, putting up riuarantine buildings at the Quarantir.e Station,

A. ll!. Onmpbe11, 2nd Oct., 1006.

50

and other labour, if it is available, is discharging vessels in port.

emp lo) ed in I:; that, in ) our oprn1on, correct ?-A. ~ -o, it i n t. 0 f the 2 7 2 cases under treatment in the Special Hos-

1294. Q. Do you get payment "for the latter

,rork ?-A. Yes, we charge 2s. for eight hours' ,rork. The money is naid into revenue. 1295. Q. In the ever:t of settlement increasing on the mainland, would you be able to utilize those

prisoners, or some of them, for opening up roads? -A. Yes, we could use all the good-conduct men for that purpose. In reg_ard to tl].e Native Regula­ tion, -o. 3 of 1895, natives to tne number of• 25,

belor.ging to different parts 0£ the Eastern Division, were during the period from the 1st January, 1905, to the 30th September, 1906, sentenced to various terms of imprisonment, not exceeding seven days,

for neglecting to make roads. 1296. Q. D0 you think the cor:ditions for taxing the Papuans to-day are as 'favorable as they were for taxing the Fijians when taxation was first en­

forced in Fiji ?-A. In regard to some of the tribes, Yes. .

, 1297. Q. I am referring to those under Govern-ment idluence ?-A. Yes, I think so. Not only

Fijians :1re taxed, but Samoans, Tongans, Rara­ tongans, a-nd Gilbert and Ellice Islanders.

SAMUEL PIERSON HAUGHTON

was further examined, a.s follows:-

pital here

Eastern. While ,re get only a small percentage of the cases among the general Papuan population, there is little danger of a case in a police boy es­

caping immediate notice. 1305. Q. Ha,·e those cases among the police beet~ of long standing or ne,dy contracted ?-A. -ewly contracted. They are among the simplest cases I

haYe had to treat. r306. Q. From what you have s.aid, is it proper to conclude that those seven members of the Armed ~ative Constabulary are merelr sufferers from, a.ind not disseminators of, the disease which has been introduced by others ?-A.. Yes. '

r 307. i11r. Okeden.--From which of the four divisions was the greater number of the 272 cases taken ?-A. From the Eastern Division.

1:298. Tl1e Cltairrnan.-Q. Are you master here?-A. Yes. •

r 308. Q. What proportion of Papua do these four divisions represent ?--About one-third. I should like to add to my former evidence that I think that the percentage proposed to be applied towards the relief of aged and infirm natives under the Land OrdinancP

,rnuld be better 1applied to the establishment and ~1pkeep of general a.s well as lock hospitals, which the harbor- rn ~l~e course of time would also give good oppor­ tumtles for research work in connexion with tropical

1299. Q. Are the conditions .a.s laid down by the I\Ierchant Shipping Act carried out here ?-A. So far as we are able to do so. The Act has not been

adopted in full. . .

1300. Q. With regard to Part III., deahng with passenger and immigrant ships, is clause 271 in force here ?-A. It is not carried out. On one or two

occasions I asked Mr. Ballantine for, information in c~nnexion with ships, but could not get anything de­ finite from him. On one occasion I drew his atten­ tion to the fact that, in my opinion, a boat was not

in a fit condition to go to sea .'.lnd carry the number of passengers she did. He asked if a,ny one on

bo:ud made any objection. I 1said, "No, I had

onlv heard rumours." He let the matter drop. i301. Q. So th~t a steamer could le,ave Sam:irai with a large number of passengers, only one boat, defective engines, and from a sanitary stand-point

be unfitted to carry pa.ssengers at all ?-A. I was ~n­ struded that unless any person objected I was to take no action. this 1302. Q. As harbor-master? do you consider a satisfactory state of things ?-A. I do not.

ELEVENTH DAY.

WEDNESDAY, JRD OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE CusToMs HousE~ SAMARA!.)

Present:

\V. E. PARRY-0KEDEN, Esq., I.S.0. (Chairman); Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

DR. ROBERT FLEMI G JONES

was further examjned, as follmn :-r 303. Mr. llerbert.-Q. Have you in your du.ty a:; Gm·ernment ::\J dical Officer to attend to the K atiYc Constabulan~ ?-A. Yes.

r304. Q. ·It has been stated that the Armed Katin~ Cons,t,ahula.ry a.re responsible· for 1.hC" introduction and spread of ,•enereal disease among the nafo·es.

medicine. 1309. 111r. H erbert.-Can vou account for the con­ tinuous heavy death-rate amoi'ig the native carriers in the ~ort~ern Division ?-A. This death-rate occurs,

I think, 111 the neighbourhood of Tamata. I have ~1

mf_ormat1qn from Europeans in that district, from which I conclude that the cause of the deaths is a very_ local on~. It _is more dangerous to engage as earner for this portion of the district than to be en­

gaged in the Russian-Japanese War. 1310. Q. What is _the best course to determine the ~ause, ,and reme~y it ?-:-A.. The ooly way in which Jt can be accomplished is to ,send a medical man with

tropical experience to die Iorthern Division for a sufficient length of time to determine what the cause of this alarming death-rate is . This could be done perhaps, in two or three months. I belie,·e the deiatl/

rate could be stopped. 1311. Q. Have you given -rour views to the Ad· rninistrator ?-A. Yes, at his re

TWELFTH DAY.

FRIDAY, 5TH OCTOBER, r906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERNMENT STATION, BONAGAI.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. ::\1ACKAY, C.B., :.\LL.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0. ::\Ir. Justice C. E. Herbert,

~Jr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

FRANCIS GILL

was sworn and examined, a follmYS :-13:.: 2. T!te Clwirma1t.-,Vhat is vour name ?-A. Francis Gill. ·

1 3 T 3. (). What position do you occupy ?-A.

The duties I was appointed to and gazetted on

page 65 of the 190--1- Gazette are as fol!mrs :-Resi­ dent Magistrate for the Possession · Assistant Resi­ dent Magistrate for the South-Easter~ DiYision · \,Var­ den for the South-Eastern DiYision · Macristr~te for

Native Affairs, District ... -o. 3 ; Eur;peat~ fficer of the A.N.C.; Assistant Gaoler for the.South-Eastern Divi_sion; Inspector under the Indigenous Timber Ordrnance of 1892; Inspector under the Pearl Shell

and Beche-de-mer Fishing Ordinance. On the 1st July.,. 1905, I was gazetted as Postmaster, Wood­ lark Isbnd; and on the 26th August, 1905, I was gazetted Inspector of Mines.

1 ,'F 4 . Q. What salary do you receiYe ?--A.

£2.10 per annum. .

1315. Q. What is the wage earned by a. ,rnrki.ng miner here ?-A. The ordinary wages come to a Jittl12 over £4 per week. With overtime they make from £5 to £6 a week.

r 31 6. Q. You say you are Inspector of i\Iines.

Are y_ou qualified for that position ?-A. No. r ,317. (2. Does it clash in any way with your posi­ tion . ,'ls Warden ?-A. Undoubtedly. 1318. Q. As Inspector of Mines, would ..,-ou have to report to yourself as Mininrr Warden ?-A. Yes.

r 319. I see that one of your positions is that of

Assistant Gaoler. Who is the Gaoler?-A. Mr.

Elliott is Gaoler and Overseer. r:po. Q. As Magistria.te are you senior to Mr.

Elliott ?-A. Yes. r 3 2 1. Q. As Assistant Gaoler are you Mr. Elliott's subordinate ?-il. Yes; although tlut is probably an error. .

1322. Q. I nnderst:ind that the station at Woo?· lark pays its w,2y ?-.cl. It has always more thain p:ud it~ wav. 1323. Q. Has Woodlark been credited :vith this? -A. Yes, a.11 but the Customs. All the direct taxa.­

tion is shown. From now on it will show the Cus­ toms. 1324. Q. How is. it that your post-?ffice is a mile and a half from the centre of population here ?-A. It was moved from Kulamadau to Bonagai last Ye:u,

r 90 5. Strong protests were made against it at the time. r 32 5. Q. Is it not a fact that alth~u;gh the post­

office has been moved to its present position you have a box at Kulamad1u ?-A. Yes; it answers. the pur­ pose of a pillar-box. There is one at Busa1 also. . 13 26. Q. Have not men to be taken from their

emplo yment to carry the letters to and . from_ the post-office and the town?-A. Yes; and I ha,e _to be taken from other employment to sort the mails and keep the post-offi~e _books. As; vya.rden, I _h~Y~ to visit the outside mmmg camps on r~gular da_} s , but ·when a steamer is. expected h~re with a_ mail I have to postpone my vi~its to receIYe the mail, so:t, and despatch it to outside camps. .

1327 . l'lf r. H erbert.-Is there ~nuch ~at_iYe-owned land on this island ?-A. Yes; t11e maJonty of the la.nd is natiYe-mvned. . .

r 33 s. Q. In the event of gold-bearmg re~fs being found on that land, is there .any law applicable to 'such a case ?-A. The only law is that th~ Govern­ ment mav purchase the land from the nativ~.

·Q - Th onl v w av to get over the di'fficu l ty T 3 2 9 · . e , , l f th

would be for the Government to purc1ase rom e native ?-4. Yes. 1330_ Q. And, in the event of the native being

unwilling to sell, no mining could be done on that land ?--A. Ko. h

Q Can '-"OU surrgest any remedy for sue 1 33 r · · J b · · 1 A t . a c~se ?--A. Only by passing a s1mi_a~ c ~s. i~ · f · tl1e Atistralian States relatmi,; to mm1t1 0 1'11 orce 111 L on priYate property. .· ? T 1 c·, z· ma?"' -Have you anv gnevanres. 1 332. ,ze ,za r •· - - -.4. Yes.

51 Francis Gill, 5th Oct., 1906.

r333. Q. Will .)OU state their nature?-A. Yes. I am jnsuJlicientl y paid for the duties l perform. \Vh~n l undertook to take up the position here as V\' arden and i\lag:•strate, in accordance ,with the notice in the Commomrealth Government Gazette, I

\Yas satisfied to take the salary of £ 2 50 to perform those duties; but s:ncc mv arrival here I have had numerous other o5c::-3 ~dc'. -2 d to my duties, some of which I was fullr conversant with, and others I was not, when I arrived. I performed the duties to the

satisfaction of my Department without pay of any kind. l have been here two years, performing

those duties. I have applied for leave of absence. On the first occasion I was told that money was the difficultr. That was after I wa:s here twelve

months.' I did not apply again for twelve months. I\I y application was put in i1n June last, and the

only reply I have received is that the consideration of it is postponed for the present. Before I left

::\Jelbourne I understood that I was entitled to cer­ tain leaYe every year. The salary of my prede­ cessor was £27 5, and he did not perform the duties of postmaster. He was offered £ 2 5 to perform

them, but he refused, and the duti'es were not car­ ried out by him. 1334. Q. Were you asked if you would under­

take the duties of postmaster ?-A. No. I was

written to by the Chief Postmaster in the first in­ stance, two months before I took the duties over, and subsequently by the Government Secretary. There was a month between the two letters, and I

was informed in the latter that 1 had to take over the duties of the post-office on the 1st July. No

materi1 als ,vere sent to me to carry on the duties. I

was told to take over from Mr. Finn, the then

postma_ster at Kulamadau, all books and pap_ers. Mr. Fmn had never kept any books except receipts for registered letters. I had to open aii the books. I got the books on the r st July. I got a. few from

Finn, but not a complete set. He had neve'r opened them. I received no stamps or anv material for

conducting the office, but -received · a:n instruction from the Administrator on the 5th July, five days after I took over from Finn, who ,vas. then at

Bonagui with l\Ir. Ballantine, the Chief Postmaster, an order to requisition for all necessary supplies, including pos.tage stamps. ·

1335. Q. I understand that you were ordered to take over the post-office two months before? -A. Yes; the letter was dated two months before.

1336. Q. But the Chief Postmaster sent you no books or material of any descripti'On to enable you to carry on the work ?-A.. ~ o. 1337. Q. Then, on the arriv.a1l of the Adminis­

trator with Mr. Ballantine, in July, you pointed this fact out ?-A. It was evidenrt tci them. 1338. Q. You were then told to requisiti•on for supplies ?-A. Yes; ctnd it was two months before I got them. Mr. Ballantine sent me £5 worfh of postage stamps from Samarai to go on with.

1339. Q. As you had no postage stamps for a

considerable period after you took over, how did you manage ?-A. For the first mail I used my pri­ vate stamps, some 15s. worth. After they were

used I had to send the money with the letters to

Samarai1 • Afterwards I received advice that £20

worth had been forwarded from Port Moresby by registered letter. They did not arrive. I wrote to

Port :.\Ioresby about them, and it was explained that thev had been sent somewhere else. I 340. ·· Q. Have your relations with the head of

the Post Office been of a satisfactory character ?­ A. I cannot say that they have, inasmuch as I was reported improperly. r 341. Q. Will you tell the Commission the ci'r­ cumstances? - A. I receiverl a Jetter from Mr.

Champion, tb Acting Chief Postmaster, early in D2

Francis Gill, 5th Oct., 1900.

52

the present year, informing me that the Chief Post­ ma ter had found it necessary to report me to the Admini·strator for neglect of duty as postmaster, ina much as mails "·ere continually being received

at Samai'ai with the stamps not obliterated, date stamps net affixed--; money due for Customs duties., on registered letters and parcels post, not coll<:cted or remitted to Samarai. On receiving this, I pomted

out I had performed my duty, had always

sent a copy of my cash-book, and had always re­ mitted the duty as soon as possible after I had

received it, and the transcripts of my cash-books, which had been forwarded to Port :Moresby, will be found in the office. I denied the charge of not elate-stamping or obliterati1ng the postage stamps on

letters, and pointed out that, to give rise to these charges, there must be confusion between private mail-bags and official mails from this office, when opened at Samarai, and instanced a case where the

postmaster at Samarai1 had returned to me three parcels which were insufficiently stamped, stan:ips not obliterated, and no parcel bill accompanying them, and requested me ta put them in order and return them to Samarai. I returned them to Sama­

rai., and pointed out to the postmaster that those parcels were seen by me for the first time when he sent them, that he had received them in N"elsson and Shedden's pri'vate mail-bag along with numerous letters on which, of course, the stamps were not obliterated or date-stamp affixed, a11J this may have occurred with other private bags which came from

Woodlark, and not through my office, and I re­ quested him to see that his assistants used a little more discrimination in sorting. I received no reply to that. Mr. Haughton, postmaster at Samarai, in­

formed me subsequently that he was requested by Mr. Ballantine to report me. The result of mt

explanation to the Administrator of the charge which Mr. Champion told me that Mr. Ballantine had ma.de, was a letter I received from Hi's Excellency, through the Government Secretary, stating that he had carefully perused all the documents and m:: explanation, and he was satisfied that my duties as

postmaster and the affairs of the post-office were efficiently performed.

1342. Q. Did your official head - that is, the

Chief Postmaster- call upo~ you for an explanation before reporting you to the Administrator for neg­ lect ?- A. No. I am also placed in a11 awkward

.position in connexion with th~ expenditure of moneys on roads and works about the island for which sums are voted. We were allowed last year £ 2 5 for ex­ penditure on road construction on the island. That

expenditure is not in cash, but, we requisition to the Govemr.ient Storekeeper for stores and trade, such as tobacco and knives which the natives use. Out of £25 allowed last year, I only . received the ap­

propriation for the year 1906-7 by last mail, on 15th September, and then I found no appropriation had been made for the current year for this "·ork. I had not received any previous intimation that there

would not be any. I requisitioned for stores on

account of that service in the month of April last, for expenditure for tbe first six montbs of the current vear, to the extent of £12, and I have from my

itores expended some £5 or £6 already. When the appropriation came along, I found there was no amount ,rhatever under this vote. The amount had been left out altogether. The Treasurer, who is

also GoYernment Storekeeper, is particular that I am precise in keeping the store accounts, but unless he also is precise it leavesi me in a Yery awk,rnr

1343. Q. How do you account for this state of confusion in the Treasury Department ?- A. The great want of experience oni his part.

I 34-+· Q. What ,us your former e. perience in

Australia ?--A. Tn Queensland T held the position in the first in tance of Accountant to the Go,ern­ ment Sa,·i.nrrs Bank in the Treasun· Department, :rnd ,ms the::° first to initiate the Gm·e;nment Saviogs

B:rnk in Queensland. I haYe also held positions as Clerk of P ett,· Sessions, )lining Registrar,

Warden, and Postmaster on all the important gold­ fields in Queensland, and subsequently similar posi­ tions in Western Australia, including that cf Under­ Secretan- for Mines and Chairman of Quarter Sessions~

1345. Q. Have you gCYt the Gazette in which

applications were called for your present pc•sition? - -A. Yes, I produce it. It is in the issue elated

30th July, r904. 1346. Q. Do you know of any other instance of official neglect in regard to Woodlark ?-A. Ye;; vVhen the Papua Act was passed there ,rere no copies of it ;rrnilable on Woodlark Island. Being

anxious to know the purport of the Act, and as

nothing had come to me officiallv, I wrote to the Gowrnment Printer in Melbourne, and obtained t\\·o copies. One of these I supplied to Mr. More­ ton, the Resident I\Iagistrate of this Division, and the other bas been the onlv one in use on this island to the present day. I have had several inquiries for copies, but have been unable to supply them, and

when asked b,· the Administrator to call a meeting of the assesso;s of the Warden's Court, to ask them to nominate some one to represent them in the Le­ gisla.tive Council under the Act, my copy was the only one I had to circulate round the island. If I

ha

now ?--A. Ko, the one 1 have referred to is the

only copy here. There is another instance of con­ fusiOll1 arising qut 6f inexperienced men being heads of Departments. . A carpenter was sent here by Mr. MacDonald, to make certain alterations and erec­

tions. I received one set of instructions with re­ gard to this man's work, while he. himself produced another set which varied in important details. Bear­ ing on the Government Stores Department, I may

mention that "·hen the Administrator was here with the Treasurer, he received a deputation in July, 1905, which among other matters, asked him if he would hav

garbage. His Excellency told therrL he ,vould bave it done, and instructed me to have it carried out. I requisitioned for a dozen scoop shovels in August, 1905, to the Department of Works, in order to do the work, but they have not yet been received.

Dealing; with the Treasury Department, I had in the office a supply of rough cash-books which were not suitable for the purposes of the accounts to be kept. In accorda:nce with audit regulations, each

item is to be entered in the cash-book under a

separate head and extended. I requisitioned for two books ,vith double ledger lines in last April, as the one I had in use was nearh· used up. On send­ ing me my stores and other articles I had requisi-• tioned for in July, I was told these had not been

sent, and I was asked by memo. what I wanted

them for. In the meantime, I had to open thi

year's accounts in the orclinan- rough cash-books I had in stock, and on the 1sth September last,

I received two more rough cash-book of the sort I already had in stock.

1348. Q. So that after a delay of six months

vou were without the verv neces arv cash-books vou requisitioned for ?- A. Yes. When I arrived l;ere to take up my office, I found no letter-book of any description had been kept, nor "·a th re a l tte;­

pr s in th office. I had to write out copies of all

my letters to keep. I wrote t.o the T .

in(r out th· reasurer, pomt-

o . is, and that I could not keep proper re-

cords without a press "'}d asl-ed fo • _ • - , cw. • "" r one as soon ,l~ pos~ible. ~1y predecessor had managed with a t 1

) pewnter, which he had taken away with him ancl urrrentlv needed one tl l ' .o . or 1e ot 1er. They sent me a ty pewnter eventually, but I wanted a COI)Yin

THIRTEENTH DAY. SATURDAY, 6n-I OCTOBER, 1906. (Tim COMMISSION MET IN THE STORE OF i\fassRs. NELSSON & SHEDDEN, AT KULAMADAU.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chainnan); W. E. ~arry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., l\[r. Justice C. E. Herbert,

:iir. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

ARTHUR BRIDLE

,vas sworn ai1d examined, as follows :-1349. T!te Clzairma11•.-vVhat is your name?­ A. Arthur Bridle. 1350. Q_. What is your occupation ?-A. Man­ ager of the Kulamadau mine.

1351. Q. How long have you been on Wood­

la.rk ?-r-1. Four and a half years. 1352. Q. Am I tc understand that you represent a number of miners in the views you are going to

express ?-:--A· Yes. At :i. meeting here last night,

th_ere being 40 present, Messrs,. F. Weekley, W. Little, T. Boylan, and myself \Yere appointed to lay our views before the Commission. 1353. Q. Thlen the views of those four will

practically be the views of the 40 miners present last night ?-,1. Yes. 1354. Q. vVhat is the first matter ?-A. The pos;: office at Bonagai i too far away from the centre

where the people live. It should be at Kulama­

dau. It is now between one and t\ro miles a\\'a,·.

Until quite recently, it was at Kulamadau. ,

1355. Q. Did the people make any protest when it ,ms moved ?-A. Yes. But the office was not

moved back again here. Instead, they put up a

letter box, and provided a man to carry the mail

up here when it arrived, and distribute it among

the people. 1356. Q. Do you consider that as satisfactory

as having the post office here ?-il.. :!\o. You ha,·e to go there for stamps or for any parcels, as t'he~

will not deliver parcels ,Yitbout you go and sign

for them, and people coming here from outside

have a further walk to 13onagai to transact business at the post office. The letters are de livere d here .

but if 8.11V one \Yere to he a little late the \· woulcl

have to go to Bonagai for them. TJ1e Warden' s

office also is at Bonagai, and \Ve consider thnt too far away. We ask that it be at Kulamadau.

1357.-Q. Is K.ulamadau the centre of population on Woodlark ?-A. So far it bas been. 1358. O. Taking the outside mines. Would_ it be nearer for the men to come- from the outside

mines to Kulamadau than to where the Warrlen's office is at present ?-A. To the 1:1ajoritY of mf>n it ,yould. There is a lot of hnsmf'ss vou han· to

do at the Warden's office at various timc>s, and it gives ;i, Jot of trouble running backw:ircls a:1cl for wards to it. · It would be better to han' 1t her{'.

53 Arthur Bridle, 6th Oct., 1906.

and open only a few hours a day. Often the

Warden may ~ away, and when we get to Bonagai we _ha:re our 3ou~·ney for nothing, and have to go agam. There 1s no money order business here

and it is very inconvenient ;n account of so mud; money _being sent from here to the other States. There is. n?. bank here in which we can put our

money. L: we want to send monev to our families on the other side, we haYe to get., notes· and send them by post. We spoke about the matter to Mr.

Atlee Hunt when he was here. 1359. Q. Did you e\'er apply to the Administra­ ~or or the Treasurer?-A. I am not sure. I think

it ,ms only spoken of to Mr. Atlee Hunt wh'en he was here. ·

THE HONORABLE FRED. WE'EKLEY, M.L.C., wa.s sworn and examined, as follows:-1360. Tlte Clzaz'nnan.-Wha.t is \'Our name?-A. Fred. Weekley. ,

1361. Q. And your occupation ?- A. Miner and leaseholder. 1362. Q. What public position do mu hold ?-A. I am a member of the Legislative Council.

1363. Q. How long have you been on Woodlark? -A. Ten years on the 1st of last August. ~364. Q. Are . you a member of the deputation which was appomted by the miners last night?­ A .. Yes. In regard to the question of the adminis­ trat~on of t!1is division; at the present time, the

Semor Magistrate of the division seems to me to be employed solely in administering the affairs of the natives, with the exception of a small number of w:iit~ residents at St. Aignans and Sudest.

The JUI~10,r officer o'.f the division is the person who deals w1th any affairs that relate to the interests of the w.hi!~ residients of this island. I consider that the J?OSitlon should be reversed, and that the Senior ?1Iagistrate should ?eal w~th the far more important matters o_f ~he white res1dents of this place, and that the JUmor officer should deal with the natives. The . onerous duties carried out by the Assistant

~_fag1strate and Warden of this island are not suffi­ c1entl v well paid. No labouring man on this is­

land. gets less than £5 a week. 0 The salarv of the

Magistrate and Warden hardly comes up to that. 1365. Q. Am I to understand that the man who has to sit in judgment in mining cases is paid less salary than the workin()' miner on Woodlark ?-A

Yes. b ·

1366. 0. Referring to your remarks as to the

change of pos.itions. Are they in anv sense to be taken as referring personally ?-=-A. N;. 1 am not spea~ing of the officers holding the positions. I consider that the positions should be chano-ed and

that the relative ,;-a.lue of the \\·ork done is E1 f ~vour of the Resident Magistrate being stationed at

Woodlark. r.36 7. Q. There are three officials at Woodlark? --A .. Yes, in th e South-eastern Division. Two offi­ cers are permanently stationed here.

r 368. 0. Do Y?U consirler it would be possible to make any reduction ?- A. Yes, ,rithout impairing th e efli ciencv of the service. 1369. Q. ' Do you consider that a Resident l\Iagis­ trat~ and an Assistant Resident Mao-istrate could do the work which is at present perfo~ed b,· the three offic ers here ? - 4. Yes.' that is at ptesent performed.

~f course, makmg this a !)Ort of entn· will make a d1 ff e rence.

1370. Q. In rc>gard io the proposed mone,· ordt'T office. do you .r~n'J."''mber if this matter was put be­ fore the Admmislrator?- A. Yes, it was. 137r: Q. And what replv did you rece ive ?­ .4. --As far as T can recollect, the Administrator

"Fred. Weekley, 6th Oct., 1906.

54

called i\lr. Ballantine to explain the matter. Ur. Ballantine gave various reasons, the chief one be­ ing a financial reason, which, it was said, it was

impossible to overcome., and so tbe matter dropped. 1372. Q. Could you give me any idea of the

'\'Olume of business that would take place if this money order office were opened ?-A. ~o. 1t

would be quite easy to get it from the storekeepers and managers. 1373. Q. Is there anything further you would

like to . put forward ?-A. In regard to native

labour, we have come to the conclusion that we

should make no expression in regard to the re­

cruiting of native Jabour. 1374. Q. What is the Commission to gather

from that ?-A. The situaticn is this: At Woocl­ lark, we have no trouble in getting native labour. The roads here are easy to travel, .and the greater number 01f people are residents. and are well

known to the natives on the surrounding islands. They have been satisfied with our treatment in

the past, and appear to be willing- to come again and work with us. On the other hand, we quite

understand that we may. at any time, move from here, perhaps i:o 'the Northern, or some other

Division, where this trouble exists, and, although it may not affect us here, it mav affect us in the ·

future. I take it, on the whole. -that, although we

make no expression of opinion, we are in no sense against the idea of the Government taking over the recruiting of the natives. 1375. Q. Then are we to take it that if you were' in the Northerri Division instead of here, you would

be in favour of the Government taking over the

recruiting ?-A. Y es1 j I think so. 1376. Q,. Is there anything clse?~A. I hear,

although I have no real authority for saving so,

that the Government 1propo_ses to build a tram­ line from the bonded store that is to he pl aced at

Bonagai, to Kulamadau. The idea of the meeting was that any oonded store, or anything in con­

nexion with the CusWms Department, should not be at Bonagai. There js deep wafer nn th~; nth<"r side of the bay, where a vessel rould disch::ixge cargo, and a tram-line from that place mi rrht. at

some future time, be advisable. At Bonagai. there would alwan. be the question of lighteraQ"e to the bonded store. anrl. then the- tram line to Kul:1rn:1rla11. On the other side of the ba v, stores could be

landed at the iettv. and brough{ straigbt up, either bv tram-linP. or lightered from there. Thf' motion passed at the meeting w;,s: -" That in the event of anv trarn-lin~ heing huil t bv the Gov.Prnrnerit in

connexion with a honded store. it should he to deep water, sa,·. ti,·e fathoms." 1377. Q. Would the cost of the tram-line from your proposed site be hem·ier t11an from tbe start­ ing point proposed by the Government ?-A. Y~s.

1~78. Q. Do you think that the extra cost

would be compensated for bv the fact that no

lightering ,rnuld h~ reciuir.ed from your site?­ A. Yes . As a business proposition, I consider

that if a tram-line were necessarv. it ,rnuld be

better to have it from deen water rather than from the Bonagai site. I would like to say that we wer0 more or less of opinion that it was prem::1.fore to talk of a tram-line at pres, 0 nt, and tlrn.t if ;i bonrle

store ,yere put on the creek down hf're, it \YOU ld

meet all reriuiriements. If the pbce went a he-a

mak,e, exprrinlf'nts in tropir:il agrirulturP, ;ind QiW'. llS thf' 1 {'!lefits of hts rxnerienrf'. \Ve rlo not ],nO\\' ho,, trl gt , plant., nncl if thPrP Wfltf' snmie r,er. on

here to wham ,ve could apply for information, it might induce some of us miners to go in for ag-

riculture. 1379. Q. Are you satisfied ,vith the mining la,r~ ot Papua ?-A. These are my personal views I

am giving now. I think the mining !aws are satis­ factory. I ,rnuld suggest no alteration.

1380. Q. Would you fa\'Our the Government taking over the transport?-A. Yes; if the Go­ vernment could de,·ise a workable scheme, and take it up on business lines.

1381. Q. Do you think it would be more rehaole than the present system ?-A. It could be made

more reliable. r 382. Q. Do you consider that: 'rlhe Adminis-tration is favorable to mining development?­ A. Yes. I have no reason to think otherwise.

1383. Q. Do you consider the prison system here satisfactory ?-A. No; I do not. A boy, af the

present time, is, quite satisfied to go to gaol and

have .a good /time. It is no punishment ,to ia

native in your emplov to ·tell him that you wilJ

tell the Gov,~rnment about some of the misdeeds he has committed. He would simply tell you that

the gaol is alright. 1384. Q. Then you would advocate making it more of a punishment than it is at presellt ?-A ..

Certainly, I would. 1385. Q. Do you consider that the present im­ prisonment is a deterrent to crime ?-A. It is not. Tn most cases. the police force as recruited in New Guine:1 are old crnwictecl prisoners. They get

:t liberal scale of food, and tobac::o to smoke, and not much work to do. 1386. llfr. Ok·eden.-You ha.,·e stated that you thought that the staff could be reduced so as to

get the 1present work done .pfficiently? rookinrr at the fact th:1t you re (Juire a Warden of some exneri­ eince, cnuldi }you make ·any ~urgestlio.ns ?-A. I think the circ:umstanres wi11 be aJter,ed shortly,

and " ·e ,rill r eci uire the s:ime number of offiic:ih. as we have at present, owing to this being made a.

port of entry. We . will require a ·warden. I

think some of the duties c:ould be flone by the

Gaoler, Mr. Elliott. q87. Q. Do you think it would be an advantage to have white police ?-A. I think so; but I do

not press it. We would not stand a. black police­

man here. r 388. Q. Do vo11 know if there has been anv

SUfVe_r Or sale O:f J.1-nd at the cl.eep \Y:l.ter \Yhere YOU state the tram-line should be commenced?­

A. I do not know of any private property there.

A considerable frontage could be utilized even if there ,ms nri vat,e prop,erty there. r389. Tlte Clzairman.·-Is the Commission to conclude that you are all perfectly satisfied with

the Administration as it is carried out at present

~n r gard to mining ?--A. I should say that, speak­

mg gen-erall,·, and also personallY, that the mining communitv is not satisfied. -

1390. Q. Can you gin.; me any indication as to

what the eau. e js ?--Jl. A great deal of friction

ha. been caused b\· the _ -ative Labour Ordinance but i.t is now remedied. ' '

1 39,. (). Then, a.p:ut from the _ -ative Labour

Ordinnncc, are the miners quite contented ·,with the pre. ent methods nf arlministration ?-ii... I

110~11<1 not like to commit nw e lf to sav the,· were.

The miners ar easih· sa1isfierl. and ·onh· -require to lie le-ft alone. ·

, 392. (). Then YOU frel tlwr is realh· nothina

at·. 1~r ,'. c:nt which sl;oul c1 _r ta_rcl the clcF·lopm('f1t of 111111111g rn P::ip11.1? .1. oth111g that I knmr of.

1393. J!r. llcrbcrt. ~ rc the present nunmg

kn m nt. nt \Voodlark on rown land ?- A. re ,

55 'l'boma.s BoylRn, Gth Dot., l!J06.

1394. Q. Has gold been found on native-owned land ?-A. Yes ; I believe in one instance. 1395. Q. Has any difficulty arisen in obtaining a tenure there? A. I understand that the native

says he will not allow his land to be taken foi:i

mining. 1396. (?.. Do you fores.ee any difficulty in the

future owmg to the fact that so much of the land

is owned by natives, and there is no statute to allow of that land being acquired ?-A_. Yes. I am not

certain but that some of the mines in Kulamadau could not be jumped at present, as the land may not have been properly purchased from the natives. I heard that a nafo, here had stated that the land

on which one of the mines was situated "·as his pro­ perty, but he has -not prosecuted his claim. 1397 . . Tl1e Clwirman.-Is the legal administra­ tion of the mining law good ?-A. Yes, g,enerally

speaking it is good. 1398. Q. Have you anything further to place

before the Commission in regard to the Administra­ tion ?-A. I think the native p0lice have too much latitude, and if the ~fagistrate has the power to

keep them in their place he should do so, and also the prisoners. I ha Ye seen both prisoners and

police sitting on the grass at the Government' resi­ dence at 9.30 at night. I· have seen the prisoners

and police on the road, and the police haYe been

doing the work of the prisoners. The police haYe no control over the prisoners, and the latter do

exactlv as thev like. 139.9. Q. You complain that the )Iagistrate's

control over the prisoners and police is too lax?­ A. I am speaking of eighteen months ago. It was

then.

THOMAS BOYLAN

S\\''Orrn ancl examined, as under :-1400. Tlte Cltairman.-Your name?-A. Bovlan. Thomas

1401. Q. Your occupation?-A_. Cyanider. 1402. Q. How- long have you been on Wood­

lark ?-A. Five years . 1 403. Q. What matters do you wish to_ place

before the Commission ?- A. The d'eputat10n of ,rhich I am a memcer was requested to draw the

attention of the Commission to the advisabilitv of sending a prospecting and explo:ing pa_rty, accom­ panie d by a geologis~, t_hrcugh 1\ e,~, Gmnea. The chief reason i s that 1t 1s a very d1fficult matter to

prospect .:\"ew Guinea by men ,rith small means. Indications of mineral b elts of country '\ould be evide~t to a geologist. It \\·ould not be intended

to confine the work of the 1Jarty to the unexplored portion of the country, b:.1t preference would be ,riven to those parts. 0 1404. Q. Are you hope ful as _to the future of

Papua from a mining standpomt ?-A. Yes; I think the possibUities are great. ~he country has h.ardly Leen run over. A great portion has not been gone -over bv white man yet.

1405., Q. · Have any reefs heen found 0:1 the

mainland?-A. _· one payable; but there 1s no

reason why the,· should not be found. In re~ar_d to the matter of the ::\Ioney Order Offic~e, the1e 1s one matter which has escap~d the notice of. t~e

two members of the d eputation. The Aclm1_m~ ~ t t. - d tl--e Chie f Postmaster Jeri us to belJe,e ra or an , · I I c that when Papua was in2orpor3:ted ,nt 1 t 1e . om-momrealth i.t "·ould not be cl1~rult

1

to_ ohtam. a

monev order office here, but until sue 1 time as rn~ corporation too,k place the,· l:ekl out no hope. 1406_ Q. _ -0 w th:-it it is mcnrporatccl. ha,'e th~ 1 d <> another re([uest for a rnonev orclC'1

p:p ~-~a The,· haYt' not had an opportunity. Tlw 0 • che · · Xl)l·e s d ot the 11w ting that n r<"ssel wis was , • "

capable of carrying cargo shm~ld rep_lace the M err~e F.ugland. The reason for this mot10n_ :vas that 1t was considered a better business propos1t10n to have a ,·essel ,rhich could convey Gorernment stores to

the Gor ernment stations. and which "·ould pro­ babl · cost much less to work than the 111 errie

J:'11gla11d. I am lec.l to understand that the Merrie E'nglmzd can onh carr-r a few tons of Governm:nt stores, and that the remainder comes by tradmg -ressels. The following three resolutions were not

brought ~efore the meeting last ni~ht. but are made I),, the deputation then appornted : -(I) That

Woodl.ark Island have the same mail service as Port ::\Ioresbv and Samarai. (z) That all beats con­

rerinrr · mails should remain in the port at least

t\\:cnt~--fout hours. (3) That Woodlark Island

mails be made up at Cooktmrn, and not interfered with at Samarai. It is. desired th.a.t vessels should remain long enough in the harbour to give people a chance of replying to any letters that may be

received bv her. At the present time the mail

boat frequently leaves port before the people ~ec:ive the letters which are brought in her. Then 1t 1s. a

week to five weeks before we have an onportumtv to reply to our mail. We ma_de representations to the Administrator in regard to th1-s matter some time ago, and he informed us that upon a renewal

of the mail contract it would be attended to. At

th.at time we requested that the boat should remain in port thirty-si~ hoUI'S. Since making that appli­ cation the mail contract has been renewed, and the running of the vessels altered, yet we find that thev

remain no longer in port than_ hitherto. We asked that the mails for Woodlark be mc1-de up in Cook­ town, and not opened in Samarai. The reason

for that reriuest is that letters _ and papers are

sometimes lost or mislaid, and they must have re­ mained at Samarai, or have been despatched- to other parts of New Guinea, and w~ have everv

reason for believing that delay has occurred through mails being sorted in Samarai. I 407 . Q. I take it that you mean that throug~

the laxness of ,the postal arrangements at Samara1 you wish the danger of delay or Joss of mails

a,·erted by having a bag made up at Cookto\vn, and not opened until it reaches Wood lark ?-A. Yes, and similarlv mails made un here for Cooktown should rema1n intact until they readi' that port.

Thev should not be sorted again a.t Samarai. 1408. Q. You do not appear to have much con­ fidence in the post-office at Samarai ?-A. We

have reason for a want of confider_ce. Another matter that was brought· before the meeting and adopted by .them ,ras that it was considered ad­ visable that a white interpreter should be appointed and employed when ,vhite men are brought before the courts of Kew Guinea. The reason of this

request is that nati \·e interpreters are considered unreliable, and that a "·bite man's property and libert\·-and possibly his life-is dependent upon the interpreter, and \\'hen natives evidence is given through a native i.t Jeaws great doub_t as to justice being obtained.

J 409. lllr. H erbert.-Would not the necessity for

a white interpreter onlv arise in questions where a natiYe i, one of the litigants?- : 1. Yes, either as a

plaintiff or defendant. 1 .+, o. Q. Is it at pr,esent possible to obtain a

whitt· interpreter for a I l the natiYe languages

spoken .1. I unclerst2ncl that if indu ement were offered a ,Yhite interpret.er could be obtained. r .p 1 ,. (). Do , ou knm\· an inteiriprert r to-day

\rlK} could sp ak all tlw languages spoken by all

the imported l:ns hf' rc? .1. It ,rnulcl be impos­

sible to ol)tain a man to speal· all the Janguarres, !mt T k-no, · a 111 ~ 111 "ho can speak many of them.

Thomas Boylan, 6th Oct., 1906.

56

q.12. Q. In such a case, it \\"ould be nee ssary

to obtain eYidence through a natiYe interpreter?­ A .. I think if inducement \\"ere offered, white men \YOuld learn the languages. 1413. Q. At the present time, such a proposal

as you put fomard ,rould be impo sible ?-A. Y s. I would also like to refer to the position of Pro­

tector of _ ~ atives. in New Guinea. At a meeting

held in Kulamadau some months a~o, I was askecl to ,uite to the Administratot and Mr. Atlee Hunt that it was desirable to have a person other than

the ::\Iagistrate as a protector of natives. It was

not considered advisabLe to have a man a:et as. pro­ secutor in a case, and also sit in iudgment in the

same case. The reply I received from the Ad­

ministrator ,ms that the proposal could not te

entertained. Mr. Atlee Hunt suppli.ed more in­ formation on the subject. I suggest that a white

police constable should act as. Protector of N abve . This was not one of the matters dealt ,,,:th at the

meeting last night.· r 414. Tlte C ltairma1t.- Are you satisfied gene- _ rallv \Yith the the adrninisfration as it affects the mining industry ?- A. While there is no evidence to show that the administration is in any wav detri­ mental to miners, I think there is ample proof that

it is not svmpathetic. We have frequentlv waited upon the Administrator here and laid complaints be­ fore bim, and in nearly every c.ase- fie has declined to entertain the proposal, and in manv cases his pro­

mises remain unfulfilled. Last J ulv twelve months a deputation waited upon him, and, among other thir:gs, requested that a road should be constructed from Kulamadau to the Saltwater Creek, so that pedestrians could travel without encountering the

danger of travelling along the trarnline. The Ar1-ministrator recognised that there should be another footp.ath, and informed the deputatioe that it would Le constructed. It has never been done.

r ,.p _s. Q. Do you consider that the present track is reallv dangerous?-A. Yes. Trucks "frenuent1y run away, and r~ce down The track at 20 miles an hour, ancl it would be a real danger t0 children

and others coming up the track. That track is the on h· means of cammunica.tion we have ·with S;:t 1t water. At the same time, he was asked to take

measures to have the bar at the mouth of the creek 'dredged. He also promised that would be attenoe

that n0w in view of the prospect of having n line

1 aid down there. r 416. Q. Then, in your opinion. the Adminis-trator has not doc.e everything in his po,Yer to help on .mining ?-A. That is mv opinion. In hjs last

Year's report he has not credited Woodlark with the position it holds as the chief gold-producing field in Papua. On page q of that Report, in speakir:g of the Northern Division, and the increased expendi­ ture there, he savs, "Against this expenditure. ho\\·­

ever, must be set the fact that the bulk of gold , -on in the Possession comes from this Division.'' Or. page 7.71 of St~tement of Exports, &c., the value of J?;Old or concentrates is shown at £.A.052 2s . 9d. for 200 tons 19 cwt. r qr. 4 lbs. The gol

was 14,930 ozs. 9 dwt. ro grs .. y.alued at _ _ -(5r .670 T7 . 7d., making a tota1 of .:f.55,7u as. 4d. That

,ms the total export of gold from New Guinea. ;rnrl he states the bulk comes from tbe _ rorthem DiYi­ si.on. Or. page 58, the Gold Warden at Woodlark Ishnd states that the total for the Year ,ms q.68~ ozs. r '\ dwt. r gr., valued at £3r. 760 rs. rorl.. T

wish to draw attention that .morE' 1han onP-h:i 1 f nf th.P aol

OllE" snLiE":--t ,YherP iniusfirP l1n.s he-en clnnP, hut tlwr.:,

is n lark of . ymp:-i.thy with th<' mining popubtion.

TH IEL SON

,ras sworn ancl xamin u, as follow :-I4I7. The C ltairman. --What is your name ?--A. John Gus th K elssor.. r..p8. Q. And y0ur occupation ?-A. Store-

keeper. r 419 . Q. How long have you been in ~<::~v

Guinea ?-A. Fifteen years. r 420. Q. You have, I understrind, been ;)_ s.ailor i' -A. Yes. 1421. Q. How close to the mamland of Wood-]ark could ships lie ir. ~afety ?-A. Ships o"f any tonn.tge can come right to the small island, aboul a ·half-a-mile. a,vay, where ,re suggest the tra.rpline should start fr0m. Alongside the wharf it woul_d be not less than five fathums, and not less than seven fathoms at the anchorage. There would be r:o difficulty in getting in from the open sea. 1422. Q. How far would that landing be from K.ubmadau ?-A. I should say 3 miles by tram line. 142.1. Q. Now take the proposed Government tram line. How far off would vessels have to lie to lighter iD from that place ?-A. Two mi1es, say, for a vessel about the size of the Moresby. The chan­nel is too narrow and 1ntricate 'for big- vessels to come in, as they could r.ot turn. ,vrLLIAM TROTTER ,vas sworn and exan1ined, as follows:-r 424. Tlte Cltairman.--What is y0ur name?-A. William Trotter. 1425. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. ?\Iiner. 1426. Q. How. Jong have you been in Kew Guinea ?-A. About twelve years, and about tee. or eleven years of that time in Woodlark. r 427. Q. As a miner, do you consiuer that the preseut Administration is sympathetic to the miners? -A. No. r ~ iz8. Q. Can you give any reason for your opic.ion ?-A. In this countrv the Gm·ernment should try in eYery way to as;ist the miner. The mi.ners are the pioneers in almost al] places in Aus­tralia, and thev wish to be pioneers in this countn·. They have developed this country as far as it has been developed, and the revec.ue will show that. If the Administrator wished to push this plare ahead he would assist it in every way he possibly could. At present he has not tried to. He has not tried to assist us on the mainland. 1en have gone over there and arried their Jiyes ic. their O\rn hands. They either have to sheet and defend themsel\"es, and be brought up for murder, or be murderP.rl.. They have to oaY exorbitant prices for their food-­+.S for ·a hag of flour, £5 for a. bag of rice, and 2s. 9d. or :~s. for a 1-lb. tin of meat. It is cliffi­rult to get labour, and some underhand ,rnrk is g0-ing on to ir.duce the natives to desert, and there is no redress. You can report the matter to a half-a­

57 T. A. Burnett, 6th Qot., 1906.

we. had made repeated applications to the Warden to improve the roads for the benefit of the natives, so that they would meet with no mishc1:p in carrying goods, but we were always put off with the excuse

that he could not do it unless he applied to Head­ quarters. When Ca.ptain Barton came here with Mr. Atlee.H~nt, we brought the matter before him, ar.d he ~aid he would give the Warden instructions

to have 1t done, and it has heen done in a manner. The Resident l\fagistrate should haYe more autho­ ritv. Native prisoners are brought out on the roac1, and thev have as good a time as the policemen.

They have also a good ti111e ir:., the gaol. 14.3r. Q. Is the Commission to take it th.at you

believe a more progressive policy should be adopted to push the mining industry along ?-A. Yes. 14-32. Q. Do you think it would be a good thing for the Government to undertake the transport in the Northern Division and on the mainland gene­

rally ?-A. The Government should take it over. I advocated that eight years ago. It would be more satisfactcry to everybody. I believe that the Go­ vernment should control the labour market in _Jew

Guinea, and that would include the recruiting.

THOMAS ARTHUR BURNETT wJs sworn a.n

1434. Q. What are you ?-A. I am a prospect­ ing miner at present. 1435. Q. How long ha,\· e you Geen in this coun­ try: ?-A. Close on three years .

1436. (Z: I understand that you haYe a matter

that you wish to put before the Commission?­ A. I arrived at Kulamadau anchorage on the 2nJ October, and going ashO're at the Government Sta­ tion, Bonagai, I receiv,e d unofficial information that

I would be arrested if I went to Samarai. ! heard

nothing further u~1til the day before yesterday, Thursday, the 4th, when on going to Bonagai, I was arrested on a warr.ant for an alleged offence of having fraudulently altered a dof:ument reported

to be a labour agreement. Whilst I was at Maga.­ Yarn, Bartle Dav, North-East Coast, I ,ms one of a prospecting p~rty who entered tba.t part of New Guinea, and the majority of us were entirely de­

pendent on local labour. I had ten months pre­

vim.1s experience . at Bartle Bay, and knew . I could get local labour there. The day after I was

arrested a.t Bonagai I ,ms formally brought before the Warden or Assistant Magistrate, and form a 11 y remanded to Samarai awaiting the .Merrie Hngland to ta.ke me there. That was at ten o'cl o:k in 1.he

morning. About a quarter to eleven I ,ms recalled to the office, and a letter was read to me, which had arrived from :.1r. Campbell, the R esident :.Iagis­ trate at Sa.marai, notifying Mr. Gill that the

warrant on which I had been arrested had been

cancelled. I ,vas then told I was free.

1437. illr. Herbert.-Whose warrant ,ras it upon which YOU were arrested ?-A. Mr. Turner's, the A.R.1( at Samarai. 1438. Q. Did you get bail ?-A. ~o.

1439. Q. Where did you spend the intervening night ?--A. At Bonagai. 1440. Q. Where?-A. In the cell , among the

native prisoners. 1441. Q. You say you have been in ~ew Guinea three years. During that time have you been in

Samarai ?- A. Upon several cx;:cas,ions. The longest time r was there nt one time was for four months.

1442. Q. Are you fairly ,rell knom1 in Samarai? -A. All the residents know me. 1443. Q. Are you kno,y·n to ~Ir. Turner, the

_-\. .R.:.l. ?-A. Yes, personally.

14-1-4. Q. Ha Ye you eYer ha

1445. Q. Was there any reason given in the

letter which \"OU heard read for the cancellation of HK· \\"arrant ?:_/I. In the portion that was read to me there was no reason giYen, only that the warrant ,ras cancelled. I belie,·e there ,ras something to

the effect that he trusted that the warrant had not Leen executed. r 446. Q. Have you any kn°'de

cbarge was standing over then . . I 447 . 0. Are the members of .-our prospecting

party in Woodfark at the present time ?-A. No. r 448. Q. Who swore the information which lerl to this warrant being issued ?-A. It was taken on the affirmation of so:ne natives, I believe. The

names of three natives are attached to the warrant. r 449. Q. How did you plead when you were

i>rought liefore the 1Jagistrate ?--A. I pleaded not guilty. I am en ti rely innocent of the charge.

HENRY E. FORD

was s,rnrn and examined, as follows:-1450. The Cltairman.-What is· your na.me ?­ A. Henry E. Ford.

145 r. Q. Wh;it is your o: cupation ?-A. Mining leaseholu er. 1452. Q. How long haYe you Leen in Woodlark? -A. Se\'en years.

1453. Q. I understand you have a matter you

,rish to place before the Commission dealing ,rith the Intestate Estates Department ?-A. Yes. I

have all the communications which haYe passed. They speak for themseh·es. I think there is onlr one paper missing. ·

1454. Mr. Herbert.-You were legatee under the \Yill of E. J. Weeks, decbsed, \Yh o• died on what elate ?-A. Some day in September, 1901. 1455. Q. Did you haYe the will ?-A. No. It

\Yas taken bv him to Samarai. The Warden showed it to me, and be sent it back again, and I after­

\\"ards received it from the Curator. 1456. Q. Have you received the proceeds from the sale of the effects of the deceased, or any pro­ pertr of the deceased ?-A. The property of the· deceased and also some of the proceeds.

1457. Q. Have you received afl the property left bv deceased ?-A. :\"o. - r 458. Q. There is still same sum to be accounted. for ?-A. Yes.

1459. Q. What is it ?-A. A fi, ·e or six years'

diary of the deceased. That js the most important item of all, or I consiaered it as such. Previous

t c, his leaving here, he asked me in case of any­

thing happening to him tbat this diary with a photo. and certain books should be forwarded to a rela­ ti\·e or intimate friend of his in SYdne,·. That wa:-. in the event of his dying on tbe I lan-d, but a few

days before he left he said he would t ake those

things with him, but if anything happened on his way dmrn south I ,Yas to get them and forward

them on. He died at Samarai 011 hi s wax down

south. I ba\'e not been able to get the diar\' or

bcoks or photo., and tb.o..t has c..ius.ecJ all the cor­ responqenc .

H . E. Ford, 6th Oct., l!l06.

1460. Q. Do you know whether those were in

hi po es ion at the time of his death?-.4. _-o,

but he took them away from here.

146 r. Q. Has all tl1e rest of hi property that

you know of been accounted for ?- .4. 2\o. 1462. Q. What else ,ras there ?- A.. A fountain

pen, which cost 12s. 6c.l., a quantit\· of artificial

birds' eyes, and taxidermist tool , fossif re­

mains ,rhich ,rere found at Busai, and two or three nuggets of gold, which be had attached to the

watch chain. The watch chain ,ras accounted for I.Jut not the gold. '

1463. (J. Since the deoeased's death you haYe been in correspondence with various officers, among them the Curator, concerning the ~.ale of the pr(J­ perty ?-A.. Yes.

I 464. Q. Have mu been told by the officials that

there ,ras no will ?-A. I received ,rnrd that the,· know nothing auout the will and property. That was from Port ~Io res by, from the Curator, in July, 1902.

r1-65. Q. ArnJ "·hen was it that you first hearJ

that they b.ad the wil I, which had been mislaid in their office ?--t1. On the 18th June, 1905. r 466. Q. Ha,·e you been in correspondence with Port :\Ioresbv and ScJ.marai concerning the property of th~ deceasep ,rhich is still to be accounted for?-

A. Yes. ·

1467. Q. But >:ou are unable to get any satisfac­ tion ?- A. 1 can get no satisfaction. 1468. Q. Under the terms of the will this missing property is yours ?-A. Yes.

1469. Q. ·rn the letter of th~ 1st November, 1905. a small quantih· of gold is referred to. Did \'OU

get thcit ?-.4.. Yes. -

r +70. Q. Is it the gold that 1vas attached to the

chain ?- A. No. I have not seen. that. or receiYc

1472. lib. Jferbert.-You lrnow the chain arnl gold, and " ·ou]d know it again ?-A. Yes. 1473. Q. Was there not onh· one parcel of speci-mens ?-A.. Yes.

147-1-. Q. And you havegotit?-A. Yes. 147 5. Q. At the foot of the ,rill there is a memo­ randum: "Ha,nded to me by the mate (Nel on) of the s.s. Adelaide on 25 / u/01, B.W.B., R.1!.,

12.12.01/' in red ink. Whose initials. are those?­ A. :\Ir. Bramell's. 1476.. ·Q. Was that memorandum written on the ,vill ,rhen it was sent to you bv the Curator in 1905? -A. Yes; and it was also on it when Mr. Bramell

showed it to me, and asked me if it was correct. 1-177. Q. Showing that it was in the hands of

the Government officials in 190 I ?..-A. Yes.

53

PAUL GREENTRE'E

was s,rorn and xamined, .as follows:-1483. Tlte Cltairnian.- What is your name ?-A. Paul Greentr .

1 _ 184. Q. And your occupation ?-A. Amalgama-tor. 1 +85. Q. How long ha Ye ·ou been on Woodlark?

- A .. A little more then fiye years.

r 486. Q. Ha ·e you anything you would like to put before the Commis ion ?-A. Yes, in regard to the treatment of natiYe prisQrlers. A bov here robs his employer, or commits some offence ·against his employer. We do not care to chastise the boy our­

seh·e:;, on ,accpunt of the Ja,rs gm·erning that sort of thing, µut 'Ornmunicate \\'ith the ~Iagistrate, and la)· a charge against the boy. Perhaps the :\Iagis­ trate ,rill sentence him to a. term of imprisonment,

and the ho · ,goes to prison. He is µlaced in charge of natiYe police, and given some little employment about the place .. such as pulling grass or a little

,,·ork on the road. Repeatedh· on passing from here to salt ,rater I ha.Ye seen those 0,risoners sitting dmn1 on the road smo~ing, and fairly enjoying tbem­ seh·es. more so than they would ha,·e if they had

L>e~n at their \\'Ork, and. the n olice UO\"S doing tlw

" ·ork of the prisoners. It is no punishment sending a boy to prison, and the employer loses the use of hi5 boy. I think.it \Ypuld be better if the Magistrate h::i.cl more power tQ inflict punishment on the boys,

and fine them. We asked to have certain roads re­ riaired. Thev are ven· bad in wet weather. The

earliest time \\·e could rret prison labour to repair the road ,ras 10 or r r o'clock. and thev left at four. I understand the,· should work eight hours. ,vhite supervision is required.

1 -18;. Q. Do YOU say that the prisoners ,rere sit-ting do\\·n smoking while the police who were their guard were doing their "·ork ?-A. Yes. r 488. Q. Then, in your opinion, sending a boy

to gaol under existing conrlitions is giving that bo,· a pleasant holiday?- .'! .. Yes. Each man in th~

mine has a certain number of boYs under him, but thev are signed on to the compan~-. The individual miner is responsible for the work of the natives,

and if a 00\' refuses to do his work e is not allowed to strike him. and justly so. You tell him you will complain to the mine i;nan.ager . who will inform the )Iagisti:'ate, and the bov "~ll laugh at the idea of

it. Some time it is so aggrasating that the miner

"·ill strike the bcv. and then he wi 11 have to pay n

fine, and l think ju~tly so; but it is very- aggravat· ing.

JOHN REILLY

1478. Q. And it was 1905 before they found it? -.4 .. Yes. When I could not hear anything definite was sworn and examined, ,:J.s follows:-from l)ort :\loresbY. I then ,ame to :\Ir. iiahone\· in Sam~uai, the proprietor of the hotel where the

man died. I received a letter from Mrs. MahoneY, statinrr that imrnediatelv on the d ,'.1th of Weeks h"

r 489. T lte C !tairman.-\Yhat is , our name ?-A.

::,

communicated ,rith :\Ir. Symons, who took posses-ion of eYerdhing. ·

r -~79· Q. ·Did she gi,-c a lit of th poses ion ? -

A. _ •o, sh"'" could not. There is another legatee. I kr.ow nothing offi,ia l. but 1 think tlwre- arr some arti,les " ·hi.ch . he has not receiYed. q8o. Q. Did you see the deceased before he l ft here ?-.'1. A few d:l\ s before he left lwre.

r-181. Q. Do ,ou know " ·hethcr lw dispo. eel of n.m· of thE' pro1wrt ,· you nwntioncd beforr. he l •ft? -.1. · I dn not know.

q82. (). o ,ou know that Jw did not? .4. I

h.a,·e yen reason to lwli w h,. did nnl. Lecau~, h,

sairl he intPn led takin(J' 1 is Jilt\ prop '1' with him.

John Reilly. ·

L.J90. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. liner. 149r. Q. How long have rnu been in Papua?­ A. Sin,e January. 1896. 1-19~. Q. Do YOU consider that th hould be

:1. liniit to the a.~ount of l:md "·hi h ould

ta.kr up undE'r the new Lancl Ordinan ?- A .. Y ..

1 193. (). What .are YC'ur rea. on. ? -A.. The ri h

lands of _ -ew Guinea, a·. for a. I haY n, in com­

pari. on "·ith the area of the rountn·. i. Yen- . mall. :-incl if allO\n' d to be taken up in Jar~ ,1r a. it w ulc.l soon l a 11 taken.

1 1Q 1· Q. ·what i. the grrat st area of arrricultural

brnl , ou think on man . hould holcl? A.. ~ bout

r .ooo ane. of rirh srruh Janel. That. hould bP suffi­ rit>nl for him. elf and hmih-. :rnd h . h nl,1 not ht> ll owecl to tal{Fi mor ' ,

59

Francis Gill, 6th Oct., 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVER ·MENT STATION, BoNAGAI.)

FRA CIS GILL

was further examined, as follows :-1495. The Cizairman.-You haYe some further matters you wish to place before us ?-A. Yes. Pro­ vision was made on the Estimates, 1904- 5, of £200

for the salary of a gaoler and OYerseer. On state­ ment of exp~nditure, page 49 of Report of 30th

June, 1905, 1t is shmn1 b\· the Treasurer that the

amount expended from that £200 during the finan­ cial year 1904-5 was £rr2 ros., and unexpe nd ed £87 ros. , making the total of £200. I arriYed

here in October, 1904. There was no gaoler or

overseer here when I arriYed, and one did not arri\· until 3rd June, 1905. That \\·as the next finan cial year, ·when Mr. Elliott arrived at Woodlark. 1

performe d the whole of the duties during that timif' as assistant gaoler without any remuneration, and therefore the sum of £1 u ros-. sho,Yn as expended was not expended.

1496. !/Ir. Herbe.rt.-Would the expenditure haxe gone through your hand had it been expended?­ A. No; it would ha.ve been paid direct to the man as sala.ry. There was no gaoler here until the

. vd July of the following year. Mr. Elliott, w·ho is now gaoler and overseer, during 1904-5 held the position of Assistant R e sident Magistrate in th e Northern Division, and on the 31st March, 190,c;. he

was gazetted to three months' leave of absence from his duties as A.R. M., !\' orthe rn Division. T.hat

" ·otdd expire on the 30th June, 1905, and he came 'here on the 3rd July. For the year r904-5 pro­

vision vYas made on the E;stimates for the nosition of Warden and A.RM., £27 5. My predecessor drC'w salarv at that rate· un to the time of mv ar­

rival in O~tober of that financial Year. 11~ the

Estimates and Reports for 1904-5 it is shown that £2.56 ros. 5d. was expended out of th'at f.275.

and unexpenderl. £18 9s. 7d. In the Government Gazette, 190.5, page 49, the Appropriation for

1905-6 for the same office of ~arden and Magis­ tr:1.te is put down at £27.s agam, but only -f?So was paid to me. There is no explanation during

that financial vear of how the balance was disposed of. In the · appropriations, Government' Gazett~, 6th August, 1906, there are E •stimates of Expendi­ ture fo~ 1906-7, and in that there ~s onlv _-f2c:.n

put down. with a footnote that there 1s a savmp-_ of ;-(25, buf there ,yas no foot note to th~t effect durmg the previous years. The_ revenue cl enved here from tbP. aold-fields alone

. 11d., i:, and 1905-6 £c:.86 6s. 2d. In th e month of

July, HJ06 , it was £62 rqs. 6d., .ond Au~ust f.r30 T6s. 6d. Th::i.t is only one port10n of tl1 e revenue I rollect. The estimate lw the Trea urer of tllP

revenue to be receiYe

l;st year was on the rori

the mine s far exceeds all exnend1ture ?- 1· Yf"s. 1498. Tlze Cllairman. ---Yom expenchturf' on roach seems exceedingly small ?- A. Yes . ~ ~ri 'f1 to keep my expenditure w!tl:i!1 the appropnat10n · allowed for roads in the Drv1s10n, but w?en I ex­

ceeded it there was a vote unexpended which I ha,(; no necessit\' for, "Vote for General Transport. :_J I , d the balance of that on roacls. anc1 ac1 -

an11 l .se -

1 f · \'ised thf" Administrator, '"ho a1>prow< o i t .. Q Diel \'OU point out to )Ollr SU]>l'IIU uf­ r'. 'I :~99,· r .. '\Joretoll the smal I amount of 111())1(.'V

i 1c er, ,, ). ' l 1 ? 1 W1 f

whkh vas Leing sp· nt n wac s i r ; J • 1c•Jl

_ 1 h P. his ·vi w. we1· th, t th . rhgg r wer t

make their own roads. He said, '' Let the dig-

gers make their own roads." . 1500. Q. Do you think that the teaching of Eng­ lish to natives should be made compulsory in all the mission and other schools in Papua ?-A. I do.

1501. Q. Do you consider that the learning of ~Iotu by officials is of any practical use in New

Guinea ?-A. It is of no general use. 1502. Q. How many dialects are spoken in your Di\-ision ?- A. From my own knowledge, I should say at least 30 to 40.

1503. Q. So consequently learning any one dia­ lect would be of very little use for general applica­ tion ?-A. It would not. 1 504. Q. And, in your opinion, the only sensible course ,rnuld be to teach the nati\-es English ?-A.

Yes: 1505. Q. Have the natiYes expresseq any desire to l earn English ?- A. Yes; I :have a boy here now who has been to a mission station, and he has ex­ pressed a desire to learn English. Boys have told me that t'~ey, 90 not wish the missionary to teach them missionary language, but to teach them the

English language. Boys at the mission station at J\ r t:1dau ,rnuld not go there because they would not

teach them anything but the missionary language, and they wanted to learn English. Mi~sionar_v language, I think, is an invention of the evil one . Owing to the boys refusing to go to the mission

station, they had in consequence to move it. On Sudest, which is only a small island, there are six languages. There are different dialects every IO or r 2 miles. I produce herewith a, letter from the

Acting Treasurer. dated the rst February, 1906, to the Assistant Resident Magistrate and War:den, South-Eastern Division, containing, .among other things, instructions in regard to the Suspense Ac­ count. Also a letter I received dated 20th Febru­

arv, 1906, asking me to suspend any action on

that letter for the present. l also produce letters

received on the 15th September, 1906, which is dated 24th August, 1906. I have also to state

that I was engaged under the condition th'at I would be appointed on probation for six months, at the end of which period the appointment would be con­ firmed, or othenvjse. I have now been here two

Years, and so far have received no confirmation from the Admini'.strator of my appointment. 1506. Mr. H erbert.-W:hat portion of his time does the R.M. spend at Woodlark ?-A. Very little.

He comes here generally when he require s to write an official report. He has to write a monthly re­ port to the Gov:e rnment Secretary, and 'he generally comes here to write it. Last year he was here

60 days out of the 365. 1507. Tlte C:ltairman.-When the R .M. is at Wood lark, does he ever sit on the bench ?-A. He has on only one occasion when I asked him.

1 508. Q. Does he eYer he lp you i11 the inquest

cases ?-A. Ko. 1509. Q. Has this ever caused you personal in­ c01wenience ?-/:I.. Certainl y, as I have been over­ ·worked.

1510. Q. Can you state any instance ?- A. In

the early part of 1905, there we re three mining acci­ dents o n tJ1e island, the first bL 'ing at Waikun,

about 4 ot 5 miles from Bona.gai Station. I

" ·alkecl out at 6 o'clock in the morning, an

cl a , after t11at another accident \Yas reported at

Busai. 6 milPs from Bonagai, about 5 o'clock in tht· n('n ing. l walk(~d 0ut to Tlusai. ancl the bodv \\'::\,S hrotight to Kulan,aclau Ho pita] a little after

c) p.rrl. When I got to Kulamadau on rn, return

fro111 Busa.i I r 'C l'iv

Fren<'is Gill. 6th Oct. , 1906.

60

at 5 o·clock at the Proprietary Co. 's mi~e. I

Yiewed that body that night, but was sc __ : xked

up that I had to sleep at the doctor's place. ·

r 5 r r. Q. Was Mr. Moreton at the residence

within r l miles of the scene of the accident at the

time ?-A. Yes. r5r2. Mr. Herbert.-In all these three cases you held inquests as a magistrate, and there were in­ quiries quite apart from your duties as Warden

under the Mining Act ?-A. Yes. 1513. Q. Does Mr. Moreton do any magisterial ,rnrk in connexion with Woodlark ?-A. Ko. I 5 r 3A. Q. Does he perform any magisterial duties in other parts of the Division ?-A. Yes, principally among tl1e natives.

1514. Q. Following the hearing of any case are depositions forwarded by him for filing in the office at Bonagai ?-A. No. r5r5. Q. Are records kept in any place of the

magisterial inquiries held by him in the DiYision outside "Bonagai ?-A. Not that I am aware of. r516. Q. Are his head-quarters ·at Bonagai? A. Yes; that is the chief office of the Di"ision,

where all the records are kept. r 5 I7. Q. Do you receive records of no kind from )Ir. Moreton ?-A. None whatever, except warrants of committal which I receive with the prisoners.

, 5 r 8. O.. Can you say how many of tbese you

k1\'c received during the present year ?-A. From the rst January, 1906, there have been six. 1519. Q. How many commitants were there alto­ gether this year to Bon~gai gaol ?-A. Thirty.

1520. Q. Who committed the other twenty-four? -A. I did. .

1521. The Cluzirman.-Is there anything else you wish to say ?-A. I have had certain difficulties with the Registrar of Births and Deaths at Port Moresby regarding certain alleged unnecessary delay on my part. One matter was regarding the death of

Thomas E. Roberts, who di'ed in the month of No­ vember, 1905. I was away when he died on a visit of inspection, and returned about the 2nd or 3rd of December, when I received the information of

his death. I registered the death in my office, took possession of his effects, and made inquiries reg:ud­ i-nrr his relatives and friends in Woodlark, and also b . • . ,note to Tasmania, ,vhere I believed his sister was. I onlv received a reolv from her last month. On

the 25th April, 1906, ·1 reported the death to tbe Rerristrar-General, and sent him aH tbe information I l~ad then obtained on the ordinary form. In

reply I received a letter from the Acting Registrar­ General, dated 14th May, 1906, in which he re­ ferred to the fact that information concerning the death of J ames r.~clntosh a·nd Isaac James Penny did not appear to have been sent on. I produce

herewith a recei·pt signed by the Registrar-General for information forwarded b,- me of the deatb of James McIntosh, dated the ·12th April, 1905) ac­ knowledging mv letter of the 18th March. By the same mail which I had sent McIntosh's information I also sent Penny's to the Registrar-General under cover, elated 30th March, but I hold no receipt for that. I baYe no doubt wbatewr that 1 sent it. I

replied to the Act;ng Registrar-General's. letter. of 14th r.fav, 1906, on the 21st _Tune last, rnfornung him that· these two latter informations had been sent to him as I had stated, and at the same time I

forwarded sufficient information in both cases. In regard to Penny's estate, I made every possible jn­ <1t1iry, and had a great deal of trouble jn obtaining information and obtaining his goods and chattels ;

and on the 26th April last I forwarded all pro1,crt: :rnrl claims I had receive

elated 11th April, 1906, from th Acting Curator, r.1r. Champion, in th foHowing terms: - " Est ah'

of Isaac J. Penny.-Having recci,·ed 110 an ,r r to my letter, _ -0. 206, regarding the abO\·e estate, J: ha,·e the honour to inform vou that the matter was placed before His Excellenc)· the Auministrator. His Excellency diTects me to inform you that, unle s you

reply punctually to official correspondence, he will haYe to rega.rd you us unfitted tc, r.nntinue performing the duties of your present office.'' 1522. i1lr. Herbert.-Did you make any reply to that Jetter ?-A. l\one. - I ma,· add that to recoYer

Penny's property involved no, less than three court cases at different times. 1523. Q. Was a man named Burnett arrested at

Bonagai on the 4th instant ?-A. Yes, on a warrant recefred from Samarai, si•gned by C. 0. Turner/ ~!\.. R. ~1. He was brought before me on the 5th

rnstant, and remanded to Samarai. 1524. Q. Was he subsequently set at liberty?-A. Yes. · ·

1525. Q. On "·hat grounds ?-A. On receipt of a. letter signed by A. Campbell, R. Th!. for Eastern Division, dated 3rd October, which I now produce, and which reads-" I have the honour to inform you warrant of apprehens:'On -o. r 57, and dated 3rc~ September, 1906, against Thomas A. Burnett, which has been forwarded to vou, is: now cancelled. Wi 11 you be good enough to · forward same to this office?''

1526. Q. When was_he liberated?-A. Yesterday morning, tbe 5th instant, immediatelv after I re­ cei,·ed the letter from Mr. Campbell. , 1527. Q. I notice that the warrant was issued on affirmation taken from a; native ?-A. Yes, and is a warrant in the first instance.

(Trm COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GovERN-1\.IENT STEAM YACHT "~lERRIE ENGLAND," AT

BoNAGAI.)

ALEXANDER ELLIOTT

was sworn and examined, .as follows:-1528. T!t.e C!wfrnzan.-Your name ?-A. Alex­ ander . Elliott. 1529. Q. What position do you occupy?-A. Head gaoler and overseer at Woodlark Island.

1530. Q. To-day it was stated in evidence that it wa.s quite a common thing to See prisoners sittinrr on the roadside .smoking while the police who wer~ guarding them ,rere doing their work. I would

like an answer from you to that assertion ?-A. Con­ sidering that there is only one warder and ten or

twelve prisoners, he could bardlv do the work for all those bO\'S. There mav ha Ye been one or t \\'O boys smoking. The warder had instructions from me that if the boys \\·ere good he could allow them to have a smoke. Tb~y are not med to heavy picks

all day, and I told him to let them have a smoke

at ro o'clock and 3 o'clock. Your informant miaht ha,·e se n them basing a1 smoke then, and probabh· the ,nucler ,rnulc.1 be levelling the road off as the,· Jo many a time. The boys capsize a box' of stuff,

and the " ·arder may haYe levelled it off while the prisoners ,-rere haYing their smoke. 1 53 r. Q. Do you consider that the methods

adopted _are a :·eal puni hment for pri ner ? -­

A. A pn oner 1 worked in Bonaaai Gaol from 7

'1 ' ,-, o co k to 1 2 o clock; they then haYe dinner and \\'Ork from 1 o'clo"k to 6 o' lock. r 532. (). It ha be n tatcrl that the bO\·, ha Ye

such a good time in gaol that when one of th ir

employer. t hr •at. ns to r<>port th m, and that th ,.

,rill get punislwd b) being sent to gaol, thev simr1:.

61 JI!. H . .Moreton,

8th Oct., 190(>.

laugh at h im, and sav they "\Yi ll ha" e a better time

in gaol. Do yo u co1;side; the\· t ake that v:ew of

prison ?--:1. ~ o, I do no t. 'rbe p risoners them­

selves could ans,Ye r that. 1533. l11r. f-1 erbert.- What hours does t he Prison Ordinance allow Y O U to work Drisoners ?-A. I do not think the re is ·any stated time. Eight hours are

a fair day ' s work. We haYe been pinche d here, as we have such a lot of road work to do, and haYe

l1ad to uti•lize the prisoners as much as possibl e . We sometimes work them from 7 o'clock to 6 o'clock , with one h our for dinner; sometime s " ·e allow them two hours f or dinne r. I some times knock them off in the middle of tbe da,·, so as not to le t them h aYc a touch of the sun. ·

J 534. T lte C ltairman.- Have YOU had a long ex­

perience with boys ?- A. Yes. I h a,·e wor}_{ed them since I h a ve bee n in New Guinea, and I think th look upon prison as a punishment. I think tb e pre­ sent tre atment in most cases is .se,·e re enough. I

am not aware o f boys coming more than once l ()

fsao].

(Trm

FOURTEENTH ·DAY.

:MONDAY, 8nr OCTOBER, 1906.

C OMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERKMENT STATION AT LosurA, KrnrwrNA.)

Present:

Colonel th2 Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. HERBERT,

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HONORABLE MATTHEW HENRY MORETON was svvorn and examine d, as follows: -1535. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name?­ A. Matthe w Henry Moreton.

r 536. Q. What position do you. ~~ld ?- A.

Resident Magistrate, South-Eastern Divis10n. 15 3 7. Q. How long have you bee n in the ser­

vice of the Government ?-A. Seve nteen years on :r 7th September last.

1538. Q. What proportion of your time do you spend at W oodlark ?- A. As short a time as pos­

sible. Abo ut three months in the year is the

ave rage. r 539. Q. What are you doing duri1;1g the re­

mainder of your time ?-A. Travellmg about

through the is.lands. . .

r 540. Q. Could you give the Commission the

extent of your travels ?-A. Last year I wa. travel­ ling 260 odd days. This year I have hardly_ been at Woodlark. Since the 1st July last, I have

bee n there about a fortnight. 1541. Q. In th,e case of a native bringing a

charge against a white mar~ , have you. foun~ any difficulty in ge~ tin(T other whit e men to give evidence . · . b sed ?- A Yes · the

agamst the wlnte man ace~ · · . ,

white men stick together agamst the n atives. J 542. Q. Do you . think that it :vo~ld be prac­

ticable to tax the natives who are w1thm the _sphe~e of Government influence ?- A. Yes j I thmk it

could be done. 1543. O. Would it have a good effect in pro-

. . dL., n1011g , the m ?- A.• Jt would, motmg rn ustry u after a time.

:r 544. Q. Do you conside r the sec urity which

t h<~ Gm·e rnment has gi,·en tbe natives ha; tended LJ make them more slothful than they were

o ~ig in ally ?-A .. It has, to a certain exten·t. 1545. Jlr. Okeden.- I s the natiY e generalh

truth ful "·hen giving evidence ?- A. They are mo; t unt ru thful. r 546. Q. Do they exaggerate ?- A. Yes. r 5..J-7. i1lr. Jl_erbert.- Would it be possible to

ha."'~ . :1. p rof ess1onal European interprete r in tbis Dins1on ?-A. There are so many dialects that one man could not master all of them from Rossel I s la nd to here.

.r5~- 8. Q. H ow many languages are there in ,·our Div1 s10n ?- A. There are four diffe rent lan(Tu;ges bu t they are divided into a large number ~f dia~ lects.

r 549· Q. Do you know anv white man who

could talk thos.e languages and dialects ?- A. No; not ,vithout the help of a native interpreter. .1 550. T!te Clt~irman.- Would it be a good

thrng. and rn the mterests of the Government if th e t e~d:mg of English were made compulsory in Mtss1on and other schools ?- A. I have th;ught that a long time. ·

1551. Q. With which D epartments at Port

::\J.or esb y do you have most of your correspondence? ·-A. The Government Secretary mostlv, also the Treasurer and the Chi,ef Government ·surveyor. 1

552. Q. Do you find your correspondence

promptly attended to by thos·e De partments ?- A. Yes. Sometimes in th e Treasury you do get ac­ know k:dgI?ents, but it is a long time before you get anyth1ng else.

~ r.553 .. Q. Are your relations with the Treasury

or a _sat1?factory character ?- A. I have so little to do with 1t. Tbe Acting Treasurer looks after the boats. and I ha:e. been writing very strongly about the way the Sazat has been repaired. She was up there 104- days. No one seems to have passed her.

There has not been time for me to get a reply to

my lie tte ~·· I have to live upon the boat uine

months m the year, and the way she was sent

back from Port Moresby was a disgrace to the De­ partment. 1 5 54· Q. Does the Treasury treat you with th,1: same courtesy as the Government Secretary's De­ partmP-nt does ?- A. I do not think so.

1

555: Q. Do you know of any reason for this? - A .. - o.

1556. l/.1r. Okeden. - In connexion with the re­ pairs to the boat, who have you written to ?- A.

The Government Secretary. r .5 57 · Q: Is • _not it a Treasury matter?­

A. YP.s j 1t was m the hands of the Treasurer.

J 558. Q. Then why did you write to the Go­

vernment Secretary ?--A. I wanted to make sure it " ·eint before Captain Barton. T hat was '.the

sures t "·a y. 1559. i-Jr. H erb ert. - How do you ac,::ount for t hat want of courtesy on the part of the Treasury ? -A. I cannot say. They seem to think they .are

the only ones, and we are nothing outs ide. Tbev are all important j we are nothing. •

J 560. T!t e C!tairman.-Y ou said that you com­

municated direct with the Government Secretary on a matter which reall y should l1aY e gone through tbe Treasury, because you thought it was more like I y in that way to go cefore _Captain Barton ?­ A . Yes j a nd be taken notice of.

• I 56 r. Q. Is th~ ~reas.l:r y in the habit 0f ignor­

rng your commumcatlons m some cases ?- A. They 8.ckno,dedge the receipt. I 56 2. Q. Do they forward your communications

to t he Administrator ?- A. T cio not know whether th y do or not. I suppose they do.

~r. H. Moreton, 8th Oct., HJ06.

1 563. Q. Then if th y J , "·b y ,end to the Go­

vernment 'erretary ?-A. I ,ranted to get it before Captain Barton a· · soon as po. sible, :rn

the offi : er in "·hose Dep:utment it ~V ::1$. r 564. Q. In that case, will the matter get at­

t enti on ?- A .. Yes. r 565. Q. How long has this unsatisfactory state of affairs in regard to the Trt2asury h een going on? - A. I think it was pretty well before Mr. Bal-

lantine went away. .

1566. Q. Has ~fr. Ballantine always treated

your requests with promptness ?-.4.. [ have never ha

nc>glect ?-A. No. 1 .568. Q. You said your boat had come back in a disrrraceful conditioe. Did you not consider that an instance ?--A. Yes, that is one case, most decidedly.

1 .569. llfr. H erbert.-Y ou said that the Treasury

Department seemed to think that they were r;very­ body, and the outsiders were nobody. Is that as­ sumption of superiority personal ?-A. I do not think so.

1570. Q. In th.at statement do you include the

Treasurer ?-A. It is different to what it was when Mr. Ballantine was at Port Moresb_ y. 1571. Q. Have the delays always occurred ?-A. No, I cannot say that. It w,ts about the boat I

objected to. I could st.and the rest. 1572. Mr. Okeden.-There must have been some­ thing in your mind to make you write to the Go­ verr.ment Secretary instead of through the Trea­

surer ?-A. It was my idea that that was the

quickest way to get to the GoYernor. 1573. Mr. Herbert.-You formed that opinion from past experience ?-A. Yes.

RAY ER LAMING BELLAMY

was sworn and examined, as follo,rs :-1574. T!te Cliairman.-What is your name ?-A. Rayner Laming Bellamy. 157 5. Q. What is your position ?-A. Assistant

Resident Magistrate here, and I also hold the ap­ pointment of Government Medical Officer. 1.576. Q. How long ha:ve you been in the Ser­ vice ?- A. Two years last month.

1577. Q. Do you think it would be practicable to tax the people ir. Yvur part of the Division ?-A. Yes. •

1578. Q. Are the people here at present indus-trious or slothful in their habits ?- A. They are very industrious. 1579. Q. Have the chie'fs any authority over

their people here ?- A. Those who make .any pre­ tence of sorcerv have. 1580. Q. D; you think it wpuld be possible to

collect the tax through those chiefs ?-A. In. the majority of cases, yes. 1581. Q. Would you advocate that being done, or c uld you make anv other suggestions ?- A. I

thir.k that would be the easier way. 1582. Q. Do you consider that English should be ~ade a. compulsory subject in mi sion schuols ?­ A .. Yes, certainly.

1583. Q. You .are GoYernment M dical Offi c r here ?- A. Yes. 1584. Q. What cases have you t? deal with ?-.4-. V nereal principally, and Jew Guinea sores.

1585. Q. Has yenereal a big hold on the popu­ latior. of th s islands ?- A. Yes, about 10 p r cent.

of the whol e popula.tion- m n, women, and

children.

62

1 586. Q. an YOU gire u any idea a ,rhen

th is disea,e first bowed it elf in the Trobriand ?­ /l. The olue. t men to whom I ha,·e spolen al out it

kne,r it wher. the\· were bors. 1 587. (). The11 ' it ,ro:ild 11ot be fair to blame the

present generation of " ·bite men for introducing it? - A. No.

r 588. Q. HaY you any theory as to the "·ay this

disease was fir st introduced in the Trobriands ?-A .. I ha,·e had 1,0 experi ence of the isb.nds between Kita va. and ~Jurua, but I think that that .has been the probable line ,r hich the disease has fol lowerl. The whalers used to call at the Laughlan Isbnds,

and it is probable that the disease came from there. From the L aughlans it would spread to ~Iurua, and the Kita.Ya people ,rnuld get it from ~Turn.1. r 589. Q. Are you holding the disease in check? - A. Distincth. A small percer.tage of the cases

die. .

1590. Q. What is your experience in r egard to

syphilis ?--il. I think it is decreasing. I beli eYe

that in Sir William MacGregor's time the popula­ tion of this group ,ras 20,000. It is now, I think,

about 10; 400. 1591. Q. Do you attribute this decrease to the

yenereal ?-A. Very la rgely, be~ause it not only affects the preser.t generation, but also the children. I know from the difficulty I have in finding cases that it is decreasing.

1592. lib. H erbert.--Does any contamination come from outside sources at the present date ?--A. X o, I ·do not think so. I .am referrir.g to the Tro-

briand Group. 1593. Tlte C!tafnnan.-Were you an officer in the Northern Division when a man named O ' Brien was arrested ?-A. I was.

1594. Q. Did you take ae.y part in his actual

arrest ?-A. l accompanied the Resident Magis­ trate, Mr. l\lonckhm. It would be between 3 and 4 o'clock in the afternoor.. O'Brien was lying down in his hut on the side cf the creek. He did not

hear us until we were right inside the hut. The

R. M. said, "I have a warrant for your arrest,

O ' Brien. '' H e said," All right. You need not haYe brought al 1 those black b----s. I will come

quietly. " We had eight or ter. police with us.

He was given time to put his boots on. The place where he was working was on the Two-Mile Creek from -the Y odda. There was other mining business to be done at the Yodda, and O ' Brien was brought on with us. There is r:o gaol at the Yodda, and

the R. )I. told me to tell him th.at he would be put

in irons, not as a punishment, but to prevent his

esc...!tpe. It was an open but he was put into. There ,ras no door to it. I wer.t to O ' Brien and told him

this, and he asked me to put them on, and not to

let the police do it, and I did so. The next day I

took him back to the station a.t Kokoda, where he was put in a separate cell in the gaol. H e was

slightly feverish, and I gave him 15 grains, of

quinine and a. glass of whisky. The man was ex­ hausted, which was the reason for my giving him the whisky. The police said to me that when they met O Brien, and they ,rere alone, he would aper.

the breech of his rifle as they passed him and put in a cartridge. That was before his arre t. On one

occa ion he came to Koko da Station on mining busi-ness. The corporal of the police was loading car­ riers with stores. O'Brien turned to me as we en­ tered the offic P and said, " I nearl Y had tho e black b---s of vour .. ' I a, ked him ,v.h,·, and h , aid,

" I cannot k~ep my har.d. off them.-,' The police n ver poke to him.- On th third morning after he

had been sentenced, whil he w.as in g:lOl I tmk

him a half-a ·e, and . aid h m;mld have to do a.

certain amount f work i,~ the bu. h. H was not

in iron th n. H e said, " If I work in the un you

63

will kill me." I told him there was no question

ot killing him at all, and th.at he was not expected to slave. He ,rnuld have a guard of two police,

and I cautioP.ed him not to make any attempt at

escaping. He said, '' What is the good of my try-ing to escape. I should be an outlaw."

1595. Q.. Were you at Kokoda when O'Brien

escaped ?-A. No. r 596. Q. Is that all you know in connexion with the O'Brien affair?-A. I saw the house at

Papangi, which it was alleged O'Brier. had burned before he was .arrested. The people there said he had burned it. I also saw the Euna man who said

O'Brien had fired ·with his rifle at him, and the

woman it was alleged he had raped. 1597. IW.r. Okeden.-Do you know if he was chair:ed at all ?-A. I did not see him chained. I

cannot say if he was chained the first night, as I

cli.d not see him. I believe he .made a complaint

about his. food, or, rather, some othe11s. did. He was fed from our store, and received an unopened tin of fish or meat every day. The only store ration he;

got was rice. The rest " ·as the same food as we

were eating, and came f rnm oiur _ own priv:1.te store. r 598. llfr. H erbert.- From the time be was

arrested until ·the time ,·ou left Kokoda, was

O'Brien tre:ited with anv ti'ndue severity ?- A. ~o severity at all. He was ·arrested on the ·16th April. On the. 17th he WJ.S taken to Kokoda, on the 18th he was tried, and on the 21st I left Kokoda.

1599. (2. Are you aware of any language or

;:iction on the paJ·t of the native police towards

O'Brien "·hich \YOuld tend to excite him ?- A. No, I lrnve never seen them act in that way towards

O'Brien or any other "·bite ma]).

FIFTEENTH DAY.

WEDNESDAY, IOTH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE iIETHODIST MIS­ SIONARY STATION AT BWAIDOGA, GOODENOUGH ISLAND.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M. L.iC. (Chairman); W. E. Parrt-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert, ·

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

REVEREND ANDREW BALLENTINE was sworn and examined, as follmYs : -r6oo. The Clzairman.-What is your name?­ A. Andrew Ballentine.

16o r. Q. What position do "?u yo1;1 ~old here? -A. iiissionary of the Methodist )hss10nary So-cietv. · N

16oz. Q. How long have you been rn 1 ew

Guinea ?- A. Two years an

like to place before the Comrrussi~m ?-A. I thmk a tax within reason upon the nati~es. would be a

good thing, and could easily b~ paid 1f steos were taken to develop the cocoanut 1?dus~ry. That ap­ pears to me to be the chief thing 3ust now. We

have an opinion that in man\' parts sugar plan­

tations could very profitably be started, but that

means capital. 16o4. Q. Do you recommend the tax from the

stand-point of the natives ?- A. Yes.

.tlov. A. BallontiM, 10th Oct., l!J05.

1605. Q. Does the Government enforce the Or· dinance in regard to planting cocoanuts very gener­ a I h· ?- A. I do not know w bat it is.

i:606. Q. Will you suggest that in the future

the natives should be compelled to pl:mt a certain numl:::er of cocoanuts ?-A. Yes, I certainly would. r 607. Q. If that were done, ,rnulcl they have

any difficulty in paying a reason:ible tax ?-A. No. 1608. Q. Should that tax be in money or in

kind ?- A. It ,rnuld be more comeniel'lt for the

nati\·es to pay it in kind.

r 609. Q. What would be a fair amount for this ta:,;: for the natives under the sphere of Govern­ ment ?-A. I should think anything up to 2s. per head. Here the people simply l1aYe nc,thing at all except the few cocoanuts.

16m. Q. And would you suggest a sliding scale, that is, making them pay in proportion to what

they could pay' ?-A. I would suggest that, but I se:: a great difficulty in the ,my of adjusting the

sliding scale. You would have to adjust it in ac­

cordance with the fruitfulness of the country. You could not do it by asking the natives, they are such frightful liars. · 161 r. i11r. 0 keden.-How long has this station

been established ?-A. About nine years. 1612. Q. Have the natives any gardens of sweet potatoes and such things here ?-A. They have, Gut they grow just enough for tbemsel ves.

1613. Q. Has any attempt been made around here to induce the natives to plant ?-A. No. 1614. Q. Is there a large popul.ation here?-A. Fairly la.rge. Within about 15 miles there are

about two or three villages, from which there is an attendance at the services on Sundays of about 1,400. 1615. Q .. And they just grow enough to live on?­ A. Yes.

1616. Q. Do you find them rather Iazy?-A.

There are all different communities, and you cannot form an opinion of one village from what you know of another. 1617. Q. Is the land around here fertile?-A. Yes; sweet potatoes do fairly ,rell. I do not know

about yams. 1618. T!te Cltairman.-If the natives choose do you consider they could increase their area of 'cul­ tivation to provide for themselves, and also pay a

reasonable tax ?-r1. Yes, I think so. 1619. Q. Do you teach the natives English in your schools ?- A. Yes. We took ia vote jn our

Synod the day before yesterday on the advisability of teaching English, and the decision was unani­ mously for it. 1620. Q. So that in future in all the Methodist

~Iis1sion Stations English will be taught ?-A. Yes. We have made Dobuan the liternry language for the district, but each circuit will have a different lan­ guage. At the Central Training Institute Dobuan

will be the language used. We felt it was our duty to teach English, and one of the reasons was that they were British subjects. With regard to native taxation, I would like to s.ay that, while I cannot

hold myself responsible, still I feel that the senti­ ments I have expressed are those of the rest of my l\fethodist brethreJ1.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE STATION OF THE ANGLICAN MISSION, DOGURA, BARTLE BAY.)

THE REVERE D COPLAND KING was sworn and examined, as follows: -r62r. The Clwirma11.- What is your name?-A. Copland King.

Re"- Coplat1

64

1622. Q. What position clo you hold ?-A. I am a clerg) man of the Church of England, in the diocese of _, w Guinea, attached to the General Synod o1 Australia.

1623. <2. How long have you been 111 Kew

Guinea ?--.4 .. Fifteen years. 1624. Q. Haye you been in the ~orthern Divi-ion ?- A .. Yes, for four years.

1625. Q. Have you been on the gold-fields there? - A. l have taken trips to the Gira and Aikora fields. 16 2 6. Q. Speaking generall v, how do you think the boys are treated by the diggers oin the gol

li e lds ?- A. So far as I have seen, they are treated

fairl v ,vell. 1627. Q. Would it be a good thing for the Go­

ve rnment to take over the transport in the Northern Di\'ision ?-A. Tb.at is rather a new idea to me.

The general system is for the men to keep a certain number of bqys, and to employ them for carrying, if necess::i.ry, and for working their claims. Tb<; two kinds of working are interdependent.

1628. Q. Are there ,'.ll1Y private firms carrying":-> - :1. Yes; Whitten Brothers and Clunas apd Clark The latter work the Yodda field, :ind the Whittens work both. They do a certain amount of carrying,

but the diggers find it more profitable to employ

their own boys. The firms charge a higher price

for carrying th.an the diggers would pay as wages to thC' boys. A bag of rice at Samarai costs 5s. to 6s. ; at the store at Tamata 12s. ; on the Aikora field,

£2 2s., if the storekeeper sends it out. 1629. Q. Suppose that the diggers on those fields knew th::i.t the Government ·would take up all their stuff at a reasonable rate, cheaper than the rate

clurged by the private firms, ,rnuld they not then utilize their boys for mining rather than in carry­ i,ng ?- A .. Yes; but I have hear

It would be a good idea if thev could get their

stores without p1ying the l::i.rgelv increased cost. 1630. J!r. Herbert.- ls the incrnased cost at the fi~l d ,rnrrante

No. 16:~1. Q. l'hen if the Government undertook the carrying at a reasonable cost for the storekeeper, the storekeeper would not have the excuse for put­

ting on the greatly increased orice. It would then be a great advantage to the miner, as he would get goods at a greatly decreased cost ?-A. Yes. 1632. Q. Then transport under Government

snµen•ision would be a benefit to the miner?- A. Y ps, under present circumstances. 163_,. Q. Would the native benefit by the change? -A. Yes, I think so.

1634. Q. Are you in favour of that change for

those reasons ?-A. Yes. 163_s. The Cltainnan.- Do you think it would he a good thing for · the Government to take _ over the whole of the recruiting in Jew Guinea ?-A.

Yes. I think so, provided it did not interfere with men employing Jabour directlv for themse~ves, and was applied only to those cases where middlemen are now employed.

1636. Q. Would it be a proper thing to send a

medical man \to the Torthem iDivision ?-A. It would he verv desirable indeed. They will never know what the disease is that the boys. on the field r1ie of until thev do.

1637. Q. Is the :mortality la.rgie ?- A. Xot so

1 argC' as it used to be. The diseas seems to be

endemic in <'ertain camps. 1 638. 0. What are your views as to taxing th

nativrs who are under Government control at the pre. ent time ?- A. I do not see anv principle

against the id<:>a. The taxation would have to be ,·ery partial. Of course, the idea of natives, being

under Gm·ernment control is rather an indefinite one. I can point to Yillages inland from here where GO\·e rnment offic ers haYe ne\·er been. Perhaps the constable catche a prisoner \Yho is sent to gaol,

and he is afterwards returned to his Yillage. They are under control to rhis extent : th.at they have

learned to li\·e at pe a·ce instead of \\·ar. Gener­

ally. I think that within a reasonable radius of anv Go\'ernment station there is a considerable amoun't of protection granted. 1639. Q. In the event of a tax being imposed,

\\·hat form should it take ?- A .. I cannot see that

the natives can make any cash payment. At present the food .that they gro\\', if sold at all, is sold at

such a small rate compared to its value to him

that he is not in a position to get a monetary equi­

nl~nt f~r i~. The islands are the great yam pro­

ducrng d1stnct, and they sell a great deal of yams to traders and others j but the standard price is

at the rate of 1d. per basket of 20 lbs., and that

is generally paid in tobacco. Payment in kind

suggests an irregular sort of system. Supposing the }fogistrate comes round in a launch, he buys food from the nati,·es at an advanced P.rice on

wh~t the l~al_ p eople can afford to give- either

native or missionary. It is likely that villagers

are told to supply this food as a part of their

duty to the Government. 1640. Q. Have you ever thought of the idea of the natives being made to pl:int a certain amount of extra ground ?-A.. There would be a great thing in

that. 1641. Q. And the produce from that would be­ long to the Government as a tax ?- A. Tha.t would l~e much more easily raised. Yams and taro do

not keep, but cocoanuts would be a good idea,

as thev could be turned into copra. The Govern­ ment could charge a tax of so many cocoa.nuts a head. Of course, planting cocoanuts does not

necessitate much work, but it would give the natives a certain ,sense of responsibilitv. It would be a

step in the right direction. ,

1642. Q. Have you any vie,YS in regard to forced labour ?- A .. There is a certain amount of forced

labour alrea d ,. as regards carriers required bv the Government, but it is very unequally distributed. although the GoYernment officers do· as much as p03sible to distribute it. In the Northern Division the people v,;ho live near the Government are alwavs

being called upon to carry. They axe paid for {t, but I sometimes think their gardens suffer. 1643. Q. I meaITTt forced bbour instead of a tax? ---il.. The on),· objection I see at present is that it

would necessitate the Go-rernment sendin.cr around a_nd recruitin~ for themselves, and, consid;ring the time the natives would bf~ required to work, it

':oul? hardly pa_v_ for the expense of getting them. I< or rnstance, nat1Yes from here would be taken to

Samarai to \\·ork on a plantation there, and it

would appear to them as though they were being taken to gaol, and also be a considerable expense to the Gm·ernment to take them down. J 644. (). Does the Anglican Mission teach the

E~gl~sh language in its schools ?- A. Yes, in its

prmc1pal schools, but not in some of the village

schools. I cannot ans,rer for the schools ·singly. 1645. Q. Do you believe the principle to be a

~ound one ?- A. If i.t tau~ht as a. econdary sub­

JCCt, yes. The teachrng gn-en to the children as a mean of education to open their minds must be

give~ in their own language. To appreciate the

bles, rngs of _ civilization it mu t be in Engl i h; but not .many of them would appreciate Engli. h litera­ ture. They think better in th ir own language.

1646. Q. Would teaching ~nglish help th Go­ yernment in their control of the n;itive population? - A. Ye , I think it would more than by the u e of

65 A.. L. Joubert,

12th Oct. , 1906.

the policeman's language, which is hybrid Motuan. The police are taken to Port Moresby to learn it,

and are then distributed around the different places to teach it. I spoke to the A.R.)l. about speak­

ing to the natiYe teacher in English, but he said he could not, because he did not tallt English to his

own police. 16-1-7. Q. Is there ::my other matter you wish to place before us ?-A. The Bishop has stated in his Annual Report that the GoYernment have not

taken any steps to put half-caste children under Government control. Some of them are the sons of Englishmen, and, therefore, cannot be mandated as the natives are.

1648. Mr. Herbert.-Would the introduction of a settled European population into the country be beneficial or otherwise to the natives ?-A. I think it would be decidedly beneficial.

1649. Tlic Clz·airmcm.-Is there anything fur­ ther ?-A. In regard to the s\·stem which the Go­ vernment have adopted respecting venereal disease, there are two or three hospitals in which natives are treated and the Government contrive to exercise

some c~ntrol over the natives who· have contracted the disease; but the people who brought it, being Europeans, are difficult to get hold ~£. ls it worth so much trouble trying to cure the disease when the source· is untouched?

1650. Q. Do you consider t~at th~ w?ite men

at present in Papua are spreadmg this disease?­ A. I think it has been shown that the traders of

South European origin in the Trobriands have a good deal to do with it. I know of i?olated cases

of other Europeans ; but I do not mmd so ~uch

about them, as they are isolafed cases. The ~ishop was interviewed in Melbourne last year, and m the Review of Reviews he said' that all white men c?m­ ing into New Guinea should be subject to examina­

tion. I think Captain Barton has sugg~sted an

ordinance that any man found to be suff enng fro_m the disease should be detained and cured of it.

T his, I think, should meet the case. .. Of course,

the Bishop holds a much stronger opimon.

SIXTEENTH DAY.

FRJDAY, I2TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE G~VERNMENT STEAM y ACHT' " MERRIE ENGLAND, AT BUNA BAY.) Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); w. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.0., Mr. Justice C. E. H erbert,

Mr. E. Harris' Secretary to the Commission.

ALLAN LESLIE JOUBE'RT

was sworn and examined, as follows:-what is your name ?­ r65 r. The Chairman.- . A. Allan Leslie Joubert. . f

r652. Q. Your occupation ?-A. Manager o a

store at Buna Bay. . been in the Nor-

1653. Q. How long have you 1

.

D . . . ? A Six years and a half, fol O\\ - them 1vision .- · . k bber 1ng various occ1:1p.ations, such as store ·eeper, ru .

getting, aQndymmu~g~ve some matters you wish to 1654. . OU . • ? l ·u . egarr1

. 1 b f the Comm1ss10n · - ~ · 1. es, rn r

p ache e ore l . . ador·ted in c:onnexion with the ap-

to .t e prtoc~l ~{?r Li;tle to tl~e Legislative Council. pomtmen o ·

F.14262.-E

I produce copy of the letter from the R . M. of t he

_ Torthern DiYision to the miners on the Yodda gold ­ field, dated the 30th l\lay, 1906, which I wish to

put in. The miners were requested by l\lr. Monck­ ton to come in and nominate a person to represent them in the Leg is la ti ve . Council. Only the assessors came in res_!X)nse to the invitation.

1 6 5 5. Q. Did Mr. Monckton send one of these

ktters to ea.ch assessor ?-A. Yes. 1656. Q. And it was in response to t hose letters that the assessors came in ?-A. Yes . 1657. Q. Where was the meeting held?- A .. At the Ioma Go-rernment Station, on the T amata

Creek. I moduce the minutes of the meeting of

th~ assessoi·s held at T8mata on l\Ionday, u th

June: I906. 1658. Q. Who took those minutes ?- A . Mr.

O'Toole. I also have copies of the minutes of the Y odd a meeting held on the .5th July, but these

h~1 ve not been certified to by any one. They are,

hO\vever, correct, and can be proved. I wish to

point out that I know of nobcidy having any per­ sonal objection to :Mr. Little, but they certainl y do object to the manner in which he was appointed. The first I or any one else heard of t he ap point­

ment was seeing it in Hansard, and I may mention that the Hansard was printed previous t o the meet­ inc, being held on the Yodda. I consider there is

sufficient representation on the Legislative Council without others being appointed from an official ~ource. 1659. Q. Do you know that the appointment was in accordance with the Constitution ?- A . I have

not seen a copy of the Act. What was the neces­ sity for calling these meetings if it had been qe­ cided by the Administrator to appoint these gen­ tlemen? It had apparently been cut and d ried by the Administrator.

1660. The Clwirman.-Are we to understand that you had no personal objection to Mr . Little, but onlv to the method in which he was appointee}? -A. Yes.

1661. Q. Is there any other matter?- A. Yes,

in reaard to the outlawry of O'Brien. This refers more b to a matter of maladministration than to

O'Brien. O'Brien last year was undergoing a t erm of imprisonment. He ran away from gaol on th~ 19th Mav. A proclamation was issued by Mr,

Griffin, the then Magistrate, that in the eyent .of anyone seeing him, and he refused to go w1tp

them to the police, he. might be shot. Nurr:i bers of police were sent scounng the bush after him. As the white men were empowered to shoot him, the black police also, no doubt, were.

1662. Q. Do you know that as a m;:i.tter .of

fact ?-A.' No, but he has never been seen since. 1663. Q. Do you infer from that that O'Brien was shot ?-A. He was either shot or died from

exhaustion. The proclamation slioufd never have been issued. He was goaded on by the blacks.

They have a habit of passing nasty remarks. 1664. Q. Do you know of your own knowledge that O;Brien was goaded by the blacks ?-A. No, only by the statement I have heard he made to

a man after he got out of prison. Mr. Griffin,

who issued the proclamation, during his stay at Kokoda, showed open hostility to white people. I might mention the case of David Rennie, who was lost in the bush out of his mind. Mr. Griffin was

requested b,· some miners who were in search of Rennie to kind!\· allow the police to assist, but

this he did not do. . -

1665. Q. Do 1ou know as a fact that he did

not scnrl out an_ poli e ?- .tl. Yes, he admitted it. The 111jne1s, on hearing that :.[r. Griffin had re­ fused .to send out the police to search, immediately,

. L. Joubert, 12th Oot., 1906.

66

got up a. pet1t10n, igned Ly all the people in this

locality, humbly requesting :\Ir. Griffin to allow the police to assist in the search for this lost man.

This p tition was sent to him in the night, and an

acknowledgment "·as receiY d, but no police \Yere sent. 1666. Q. In the acknowledgment did he state

" ·hether he would or would not send the police?­ A. _ · o, it was simply a cold acknowledgment. The majority of the diggers cootinued in the search as long as they could, and after a. few days it was

abandoned, · except three men, who persisted, and ultimateh· found Rennie in a dying state. The

man died in a few months after his recovery, pro­ bably (,re do not know) from the effects of his ex-posure.

capecl ?-A. Yes, he was uppo ed to han! had hi head laid open by a tomahawk. r 67 5. Q. It is not an extraordinary thing, i it,

that under such a circumstance O · Brien should not have returned to settled districts ?-A. _To. I be­ lieve he had very serious charge hanging oYer ijim. 1676. Q. In regard to Rennie, as a matter of

fact, was he not a hard drinking man ?-A. Yes. 1677. Q. And probably died from that cause?­ A. He had not been drunk for some time. 1678. Q. But it might have affected ihim ?-A. Yes.

1679. Q. What is your present occupation ?-A. I manage for Clunas and Clark during the farmer's absence. T 680. Q. How long have you been with the firm ?

-A. About seven years. 1667. O. When the miners requested Mr. Griffin to send the police out had he any available?­

A. He had some in the station, we do not know

how many.

1681. Tlte Clzairman.-You mentioned that seve­ ral murders of natives have occurred close to Ko-. koda. Could you give the Commission any specific instances ?-A. No, only Mr. J\leeks' carrier. 1668. (). But you are certain he had some?-A . Yes, I ::i.m po"sitive.

1669. Q. Speaking persona,llv. haYe rnu had any experience of ?\Ir. Griffin's want of sympathy?­ A. 'C es, I will state my °''"n c:ase. In s ·eptember

last year, I was managing Clunas and Clark's

stor~ on the Yodda Valley gold-field. My native earners on 4th September, en route to the Yodda, a few miles this side of Kokoda Station, bad a

repack load stolen £rem them bv Orokaivas. This load was valued at £22 2s. 6d. , and contained

n1edicines, cartridges, caps, and tobacco. The

boys arrived on the field on the 6th. On the fol­

lo,Ying day I despatched them on the return trip, reporting the less of the load as they passe(l

Kokoda,. The leading boy, Lolaku, was carrying n:~ ozs . gold, and letters for our depot. Boeri

store. T~i;;; hoy acled as escort, and had a ·permit for carrying a gun, but was arrested bv A.R.M.

~·:arriQltt on a charge of murder, and · the gold

c1.llowed to be taken on down the road bv an or­ dinary carrier. The bov went to A.R. M. ' Marriott anu reported the loss of the load stoilen previously, and was arrested bv1 Marriott on another charrre

altogether. The car;ier who ,ms carn·ina the aold on getting between 20 and 30 mil~s "'down° th~ track, was met by Mr. Griffin who cross-examined him in reg::i.rd t~ the murder c~se, and the boy told

me t~at Mr. Gnffin told him he lied in reply to his q11est1ons, and would be out in gaol on his return to Kokoda. This was sufficient to make any carrier desert.

1670. Q. Do you know if :Mr. Griffin knew that this boy was carrying the gold ?-A. No. There

were from 50 to 100 carriers on the track, and he

happened to fix on the boy carrying the gold. T his bov kn~w he was carrying valuables, and he went ~o ~og1 Depot Store, threw the box with the gold ms1de, and deserted. I consider it a wrong action on the part of the Government to allow th:e gold to

go on at all after the escort had been arrested. r671. Mr. Herbe-rt.-Was [r. l\farriott told that the hm' "'as carrving gold ?-A.. ro, but the OO\'

was carrying gold everv trip, and carries a rifle.

and acts as escort. The native who was with him tel Is me that he knew be was carrying the gold. r672. l/Ir . O.keden.-You have sworn to the rea­ $:Ons wlw the bov deserted. You say it was

P.nough to make a1iy bov desert ?-A. Yes ; the other carriers told me who were there. r673 . T!te Cltairman.-You sav that the first robberv was reported to _ Ir. '\Ionckton. What

action ,ms taken ?-r-1. :\"one. ,ve beard no,hiwr further about it. A number o[ murders of nJti\'C:'1: have occurred in the same virinit\' sine then. 1674. llfr. Hc.rbert.- I understand that the poli1'<' guard was injured by O'Bri '11 al the time be ' -

. '

1682. Q. Any other matter?-A. Yes. On the

26th April, 1905, a. miner named Linney was

summoned for allegedly striking a native in hjs em­ ploy. He was taken to Kokoda and fined £3, or a month in gaol. The £3 were never collected,

nor tbe man ever put in gaol. The boy was

stopped from working with Linney. I consider

that a poor way of administering la.w. 1683. Q. Was the sentence not carried out in any way?-A. No. 1684. Mr. Okeden.-How do you know he was sentenced ?-A. Linney himself came into my store on his return to Kokoda and informed me so.

1685. Mr. Herbert.-How do you know he never paid the fine ?-A. He told me previous to my leav­ ing the Yodda last Nov;ember. He was fined in

April. 1686. Q. Referring to the appointment of Mr. Little, you have not seen the 1 Constitution Act ?-A. No.

1687. Q. The Legislative Council consists of six official members and three non-official members ap­ pointed bv the Governor-General. Am I right in understanding that you are satisfied with that IR. w

provided some expression of choice is sought prior to appointment so as to guide in some way the

Governor-General ?-A. No, I would not be satic;­ fied. · The larger proportion of the white people live on these gold-fields, and I know tbev prefer electoral representation . That is the oninion of

the people I come into contact with. Represen­

tation should be by election.

SEVENTEENTH DAY.

SATURDAY, 13TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GOVERNMENT STEAM YACHT " :\IERRIE ENGLAND,') AT MAM-BARE BEACH.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A . K. :\IAcKAY, C.B., :\I.L. C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry- keden, Es1. I.S.O.,

Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert, )fr. E. Harris, Sr, rrtan- to thr Commi . . ion.

JOHN O'TOOLE

,ra. . worn and xamined. ::i. s follows:

1688. TIie C lzairman.- Wbat i' ::our nam,? --!1. John O'T00Ie.

1689. Q. What are you ?-,L Miner on the Gir:1. gold-field.

r 69o .. Q · How long h a Ye rnu been on that fi eld? -A. Smee 1898. -

1691. Q · Do you represent t he body of miners

on the Gira ?- A. Yes.

1692. Q. In wh~t way were you appoi nted ?-A. I ,and Mr. Cummins we re appointed at a meetin rr held lo.st Sunday. I hand in the minutes of that

meeting. 1693. Q. So that you r ep resent the nine mine rs whose names appear on the list ?-A. Yes, and one othe:r-!homas l\Iurray, whom I met on the road commg 111, and who said he was arrreeable to my re -presenting him. 0 •

r694. · Q. Rav~ ~ou any views you wish to put

~efore the C:ommission a s a delegate ?-A. Yes. The iirst matte r 1s the manner of Mr. Little's election to the Legislative Council. 1695. Q. Do you not conside r it satisfacton- ?

-A. To. The meieting was called of miners ·at

Tamata on the IIth June to select a person to be

nomina.ted by His Excellep ,c v. The meeting was called by Mr. Monckton. I show rnu the ori ainal

notice. ·we consider that it was n·ot fair to brino- . • b mmers m to Tamata to make an appointment which we understand since was alreadv made. 1696. Q. Am I to understand that the appoint­ ment of Mr. Little was actually made before this meeting was called ?-A. The nominations must

have been made in Port Moresby before the meet ­ ing was called. or at the date of the meeting. We

,ve re led to believe that no expenses were to be paid to a member of the Legislative Council. I show

he re copy of the minutes of the Gira meeting. 1697. Q. Are we to understand th.at, in spite of that statement, Legislative Councillors are allowed expenses ?--A. I do not know. \Ve understand they

are. 1698. lvlr. Herbert.-Would the fact that they are have altered or influe nce d your choice on that occasion ?-- A. Certainlv.

1699. The Clzairma"'n.-Are the objections of yourself and those you re present as to the methods adopted r.ather than to the principle of this system of appointment ?-A. I would be satisfied with the

present system for the time being, but not for the future. ·

1700. Q. What is your suggestion as regards the future ?-A. Elective represenitation. by the male population of New Guinea. That is the idea of th~ people I represent, and all the p eople _ on the fie]_d. I have a petition on that .subject, signed by twenty­ nine people on the field. It is from the Gira people,

and is jllOt yet completed. When it is completed it is to be handed to the Federal l\finister. 17or. Q. Have you anything furthe r to say deal­ ino- with the election of l\fr. Little ?- A. No. The

m~nneii of his election seems to be unpopular on the field. 1702. Q. The unpopularitv is on account of the manner of el ec ti on , and d oes not refe r to tbe man? - A. As far as I am concerned, I do not think 1r.

Little is a fit and proper p erson to represent the

miners, on account of the hold of the missionaries. The miners want some one who is independent of e verybody. That is my p ersonal view .. I may tell YOU fhat another .;ection of the populat10n, as Mr.

'Little has been elected. would give him a trial , ancJ see what he can do. P ersona ll y, I do not t hink any one has anything to say ag~inst Mr. Lit~le. .

1703. Q. What other matter. do you wish to lmng before us ?- A. Roads., b ridges, and boys ' t racks

from the stores to the gold-fi elds. 1704. Q. Are those not i.n a satisfactory rn :1 cli­ tion at present ?~ A. No.

67 John O'Toole, 13th Oot., 1906.

1705. Q. Have you any suggestions you would like t u make in regard to that matter ?--A. The

t rack from Tamata to the Gira is at present in a

,·er y bad state. In fact, some of the crossings over the creeks are absolutely dangerous. 1706. Q. Do you consider that the local officers a re doing their best in regard to this road with the means at their disp0sal ?-A. There were a lot of boy s, in charge of a native policeman, but better ,,-ork ,rnuld have been done if they ha

not want roads, but simply tracks that a man can walk ovei:- The tracks requir~ repairing occasion­ ally. W ne ropes should be stretched over thre(' crossings on the Aikora, as those crossings are a great drawback to miners getting their goods there.

: 707 ·. Q. Have the miners made any represen­ tations m regard to this matter to the authorities? -A. Yes, but with no result. At the beginning cf last year \\·e had se_ veral large meetings at Tamata,

fifteen or , seventeen persons being Jprese!nt. In May, 1905, a deputation of five was appointed, and ,~aited ol:- H1_s Excellency on board the !11 errze l! .. ngland m this bay, and put these and other mat­ ters before him, with practically no result.

1708. Q._ What reply did His ExcellencY. give the deputation ?-A. In_ regard to the wire rope, be reckoned he would consider the matter. Four bov.:,' huts _were to be built along the roads. That be

promised, but they have not been built. A visiting doctor was asked for at. the same time. The only reply we got was practically that if we wanted a doctor we would ha.ve to pay for one. He said he oould not entertain the idea. We pointed out the hrnvv death-rate among the boys, and we think he should have given us a little help in the matter.

The onl y remedv he seemed to have in regard to the death-rate was closing the field, and a notice was posted up at T amata store that the field would have to be ~losed to boys if there was not an improw~­ rr.i ent m the death-rate. The rate has improved

?mce: but that was due to the better rice which

1s hemg brought on the field.

1709. Q. Do you think that mule transport would be a great help to the mining population ?-A. Yes; and we then c?uld do with less boys, and it would cost less to deliver the goods from the main stores.

I7 ro. Q. Do you think that would be practicable between Tamata and Gira ?-A. Yes, although it is rou &h counitry. There are no insurmountable diffi­ culties, for rs or , 16 miles at any rate.

171 r. ll{r. Herbert. - What would mule t racks cost ?- A. I have no idea.

17 12. Q. Would the present track need much doing ~o it ?- A. To; but it would require looking to. at times. Tbe tracks used now were cut by the mrners, and they have been a little improved since . T he·

J7 r3. !'lze Clzainnan.- Is there anything else?-A. Yes , m regard to a p rospecting ,·ote. •

1. 7 14. Q. What do you propose, a sum of money

or mcreased areas for 1:he men who discover payable fi elds ?- A. The area 1s pretty large at present , if

we get outside a! gold-field, but the whole of this p art of the country has been declared a gold-fiel d. r715. Q. Then what do you want ?-A. We want a ,·ote to help men to go out pro pectin g. T hey

s~1ould be assisted to help to prospect t he country . ..

\ ou could put a sum of money on t he Estimates

for t \\' o or three years, a nd the Warden could re­ com r:ri cnd· and eq ui~ parties to go out. T wo private parties on t he Wana have been out two months, at E2

John O'Toole, 13t~ Oot., 1906.

68

a co3t of from £400 to £500, and the best of the field may fall to others. 1716. Q. But as they were the original pros-

pectors, does not a claim go to them ?-A. Yes, if they apply for it; but they may have to leave owing to want of food or protection, and may lose it. 1 may say that those two men on the Waria have been

out for four months, and the tr 'P must have cost them between £400 and £500. That would be a fair average to take. 1717. Q. Would the miners be in favour of an expert geologist being sent to this country for the

purpose of fully inspecting the country and giving in!ormation? - A. Yes, they would like it very

much. 1718. Q. Would the practical result justify it?-A. I believe it would. There is only aJ very small corner of the country tried. I also think that, in

the event of a large piece of colL11.try fit for sluicing or hydraulic work being found, the Government should help the miners to bring water to work it. 1719. Q. How do you propose that that should

be done ?- A. That the Varden, after inquiry being made, and if he thought the scheme ,ms possible, should advise the Government to advance a sum of money to help the men to bring in the water, which,

if the scheme were successful, could be paid back in instalments, which the Warden and assessors could agree on. If unsuccessful, the men would lose their time, and the Government would lose some

money. Then we are in favour of trial by jury.

That is referred to in the petition which I have

shown. It is a very necessary institution for the country. 1720. Q. Are you not satisfied with the present methods ?-A.. No.

1721. Q. Can you give any specific case where in-justice has been done under existing methods?-.­ A. Yes, one case at least, that of Steve Wolf. I

heard that case in the I'olice Court, and the greater part of it before the Judge. I do not think it

fair to Wolf the way the whole matter was carried on. He had practically no lawyer or counsel to

assist him, with the exception of one layman. The interpreters in the case were two native police, and one could not interpret direct without the aid of the other. In my opi11ion, I do not think the

result would have been the same under trial by jury, according to the evidence I heard. 1722. Mr. Herbert.-That is, you differ from the Judge, and, therefore, you think twelve men

would have differed from the Judge ?-A. Yes, be­ cause I knew part of the circumstances of the case. 1723. The Chairman.-Wolf was convicted, was

he not?-A. Yes, on the evidenGe principa1ly of two or three native witnesses. 1724. Q. Do you think, if he had been tried by jury, he would have been acquitted ?-A. T think

so. I think, if he had had legal assistance., the

death sentence would not have been passed on him. 172·5. Q. Had Wolfi iainy meanS.:?-A. I could not say. We were getting up a subscription here to defray the expenses of a solicitor, but could not make an appointment for the Court to be held so

that tht solicitor could attend. 1726. Q. So that your difficulty would ha,·e

been got over if the Govemment could have given you a fixed date ?-A. Yes. · 1727. Q. But that, of cou~se, lias nothing to do with trial bv jur:. It might hatve occurred even with trial b,· jury ?-A. Yes. Wolf was sent to

Port Ioresbv, 1'llstead of beinp; left at Samarai, from which some communication could have ken made to a s~licitor in Queensland. 1728. Q. Did the men who were raising mr1 nc ·

to nrovide counsel ask the Government to fix a date, and the Government were unable to do so?-

A. Yes,; the solicitor wrote to me that the G°'·ern­ mult could not fix a date. 17 2 9. Q.. How ,rould you propose to get a panel of Jury in the case "·here seYeral panels were chal­

lenged, ::,ay on the Gira, where you haYe o:1ly thiny or forty men ?-A. They could do the same thing as they do m ot~er places, say in Queen -

land. We ha,e enough people to enable a jur::

of six to be selected. All the Central Courts are

held at V, oodlark, Samarai, and Port )fores by,

and I think they could combine the lists of the

t,rn fields, say Woodlark and here, and 'between them they: should l.Je able to get a jury. 17 30. Q. Do you consider that in serious cases a white ;.nterpreter should be employed ?-A. Yes.

17 3 r. Q. In regard to trial by jury, is it a fact

that when any native " pulls" a white man it is

impossible to get other white men to giYe evidence against that white man ?-A. I have not heard of any case where a white man has refused to giYe evidence against another white man. I know of a

case where ;i white man refused to give evidence in the case of the murder of a white by a black. J7 32. lllr. Okedcn.-HaYe you got such a man

on your field ?-A. No, he is not on the field. 17 33. lib. H erbert.-Respecting the matter of an interpreter, coulu you get one paid interpreter who would understand all the languages ?-A. It would . be hard. He would only be required in

murder cases. 17 34. The C Jtairman .-Is there any other mat-ter ?-A. Yes ; the more punctual attendance of the Central Court in the Northern Division.

1735. Q. Can you give any instance of hardship occurring owing to this want of punctuality? -A. Yes. I had to attend the Court from April

the 2nd to the 8th, 1905, in a Crown case. I

attended the Court, came back to work again, and came in a second time, from the 3rd April to the 6th May. I went back, and came in again on the

16th May, and went back again on the 20th. I

was nineteen days at Court, six days travelling in and out of Taimata, three trips, and two days up the river from here to Tamata - in all, twenty­

seven days,. I had also three signed-on natives for witnesses in the same case, and they lost the same amount of time, and I had to pay, and feed them duri1ng thrut time. One of! them I had to pay 17s. or 18s. overtime when his time was finished as he

was delayed over the period of his contract.' 17 36. Q. What occasioned aU this delay ?-A. We were called in to attend the Court, and the

.!iferrie Enj!,land and the Judge did not arrive. '.The Judge, I unden5tand, was ill at the time at Port

Moresby. I was paying the boys £r a month, and d_id not get any compensation. At Samarai I was offered 6s. a day for myself and .r:othing 'for the boys. but I refused. The boys cost me 2s. 6d. a

day for their wages and food. r 7 3 7. Q. What allowances are made to white wjtnesses ?--A. None. 1738. Mr. Herbert.-Were any made to you?-A .. No.

1739. Q. Were you subprenaed ?-A. Yes. A voucher was sent to me f?r expenses during the pre­ sent year, but the magistrate did nof know how much was to be allowed. I understand it is 6s. a

day now. 1740. Tlie Clzairman.-ls the Court often de­ layed in the manner you have stated ?-A. It is not punctual.

1741. Q. Acd the result is that the miners are

often put to great inconvenience ?-A. Yes. Often the men will not co 1e if they can help it. A white man was murdered by hi signed-on r.ative and the men in. the vicinity knew this and would ~ot report

the matter, because they thought they would lose

69 John O'Toola. 13th Oot., 1906.

too much time. _In the end the boy confessed him­ self, ar.d was tned and hanged. He shot his em­

ployer, a man ~amed Brown. I think in the 1904-5 Repor~ the Resident Magistrate states it is lurd to get evidence against whites in the Xorthern Divi­ sion, but I srty that if the Court was held more re­

~ularly they would get their witnesses. I ,ms par­ ticularly told to dra.w vour atter.tion to that para­ gr_a.ph.. In one case a· man had to travel over 40

miles mto T a m.ata and out again, and ,vas detained three weeks waiting. T.7·12· Q. _'\Vas that on the same occasion as you ;eferred to m your case ?-A. Yes but rot in con-nexion with the same case. '

T743· Q. What is the next .matter ?-A. The

natives have been troubling the miners at Water'fall Creek for some time, and they consider thev have not had any protectior. from the Government: There was a murder them last July of a boy.

I744. llfr. Herbert.-Whose boy ?-A. Man of the name of Anderson, and another boy was speared previous to that. !745· Q. Any others ?--A. The natives have been robbing the camps. They have stolen three rifles belonging to R. Ravener, A. Park, and C. 'Richard.

The .miners aoplied for protection as far back as October Jast, but nothing has been done. 17 46. Q. That is, the offenders have not been

caught ?-A.. No. Thev murdered two men in

1902, and I do not kno~v if any of them have been punished. 1747. Q. Have ar..y .attempts been made ?-A. Yes, there has been a man out lately trying to catch

them. I believe he has caught three. The natives

are getting very cold. They come within 15 miles of th;: poiice c:imp and murder the boys. 1748. Q . Wh.at protection do you want?-A.

Some or.e should be sent out to catch the offenders. 1749. Q. And vou say nothing has been done

until <]Uite rece ntly ?--A. No. The miners have

been complaining for some time, and ur~til June no­ thing was done. 17 50. Mr. Okeden.-Dicl YOU not say the mur­ der occurred in July ?-A. Yes. The Government sent out a man lately from Melbourne who was

quite unacquainted with the countrY. He had six police, and th.at number was quite inadequate. Con­ sidering his lack of experience he did fairly well. 17 51. Tl1e Cltairman.-Is there anythir-g else?-­ il. We are jn favour of .a road to the Waria by the

nearest and best wav in our mvn Territory, pro­

vided the expense is warranted. In reg~~d to Go­ vernment recruitir.g, we think that recrmtrng could be done by the Govenment and be payable. We

think it would be to the advantage of the .miners and settlers, and more boys v.;ould be obtained. We also thir. k the miners sh0ul d be allowed to re­ cruit their mvn boys, if the Government C<)ys did not suit them. B · Government recruitinrr "·e mean the substitution of the Government for the present

middle.mar.. 17 5 2. Q. Do you think it would be wise ~or the GoYernment to undertake the transport service up to the mines ?-A. Yes, and the Governmen t sh0uld take over the ·whole of the recruiting, engagement

::i.r.d paying of the boys. That is mv own pers011a 1 o ini on, but the recruiting by the Government ,,·:y; n~e of the matters I was authorized to spenk m

fovom of. I als(1 think that ... light ye.arL· t:1x

sh0uld he i.mnosed upon the natin'sJ and th:1t it would m·1 ke therri work . ·

1753. Q. Do you think it. wo:1ld be possible to rollect sn."'h a tax ?--A. I th1r.k 1t would. In ench

DiYision tbe magistrate could rea h a porti?n _of the native:;, and iri tiluC. ,rn,~ir~ h:c- .'.lL t te; !::~f·i1 ti,: 11>·. You could make the Village Constable or the nllage chirf parth re.sponsibte .

17 54. Q. :But I understand the village chief has rio power over the natives ?-A. Then make the Village Constable responsible. 1755. Q. Do you think the natives in your

locality should pay a cash tax ?-A. Yes. 17 56. Q. Have you considered the question o'f t he amount ?-A. I think that might be left to the Legislative Council. Another matter I would like to put forwa.rd is this: I caught a man robbing an­ other man's camp. I sent for the police, and

handed him over when they came next day, and that man had to pay 1 rs. for the cost of the prose­ cution; the magistrate was Mr. Oelrichs. I do not think he should be called to pay the expenses after being robbed. Another ma.tter is the rem:>Ving of

the police statior. to the present site. Several meet­ ings were held by miners, protesting against it on the grounds of inconvenience. The police station originally was close to the store at Tamata. It is

r.ow 3 miles up the creek on the opposite side to

the store. It is nearer the field, but further from

the scene of operation, as most of the business is done at the store, Mr. Cummins, the storekeeper, cfoing nearly all the .business in connexior. with the boys.

17 57. Q. Was it not moved to its present place on account of the healthy position ?-A . . No. I

think that is the reasor. the Government gave.

JOHN CUMMINS

was sworn and examined, as follows : -17 58. The Chairman.-What is your name ?-A. John Cummins. 17 59. Q. What is your occupation ?-A. Store­ keeper at Tama.ta.

1760. Q. Were you appointed with Mr. O'Toole to represent the mir..ers, whose names .appear on the paper handed to us ?--A. Yes. 176r. Q. Have you anything further to add to

what was put before the Commission by Mr.

O'Toole ?-A. No. I think Mr. O)Toole has ex­ plained everything. 1762. O. Are we to understand that you are in accord with the views expressed by him regarding .matters placed before us .as a member of the depu­

tation ?-A. Yes.

EIGHTEENTH DAY.

14TH OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET ON BOARD THE GOVERN· MENT STEAM YACHT " MERRIE ENGLAND," AT BUNA BAY:)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M.L.C. (Chairman); W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert. Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

THE HON,ORABLE WILLIA 1 JOHN LITTLE, M.L.C., made the following statement:-1763. Mv name is William John Little. I am a miner, and- member of fhe Legislative Council. I have be~n nearly seven years in _ -ew Guinea, and ha,·e spent that time principally in the ~ Torthern

W. J. Little,

14th Oct., 1906.

Division. I have two suggestions to make, which I think will be to the adrantage of tbe country.

The first is in regard to the adrisauility of the Go­ vernment taking over tbe recruiting, and from a business point of , iew I wish to show that it

could be made a success of. Taking the boys for mining and carrying, there are 1 ,ooo signed on on the 30th June, 1906, for those. purposes. A

probable increase in t,he number of boys could have been obtained, say, 400, making a total of

1,400. Those at £4 a head amount to £5,600

for recruiting fees. Those figures I obtained from Mr. Whitten, who h,as been engaged in this busi­ ness a considerable time, and he says that a steamer suitable for recruiting that number of boys would cost £3,000. That would be a better boat than

the one used at present. The cost of maintenance of the steamer for one year would be £2,500, and that leaves a profit on the net transaction of £roo for the year's work, after paying for the steamer.

There were also 783 boys signed on for work other th:an for mining. These I have left out, with a

view of showing that there cannot be any possible loss in the Government taking this matter over, al­ though they would be included in any scheme of Government recruiting, and thus increase the profit. There is another matter which I have not mentioned for the same reason, and that is that there would be a certain amount of money made in returning bovs to their homes. There is a f.ee of ros. for

returning boys to their homes. In all probability it would be neces,sary to have more than one

steamer. I would strongly advise that two be

purchased, as in two years both would be paid for, and leave a certain a·mount of profit on the trans­ action. In my opinion, two would be necessary. I would like to point out that recruiting by private enterprise has been, and is at present, a failure

from the point of view of the employer, and all the industries of New Guinea are dependent upon

native labour. In regard to our land law, I con­

sider it is most liberal, but without you can ensure a good and reliable supply of native labour you

will not be able to induce people to come to the

country. The same thing also appli.es to the

mining industry. The steamers I have suggested for recruiting, when not used in that work, could be utilized for general Government purposes. 1764. The next matter I wou1d suggest is that

the Government send a prospecting exploring party through the unexplored part of New Guinea, and that a geologist and several miners be attached to the party. The cost of .such an undlertaking

would be about f,1,000, excluding the expense of the geologist. The benefits to be derived from a p;uty of this kind would be that YOU could get a

complete and reliable account of the unexplored part of N"ew Guinea, and t11e geologist would be able to supply useful information, and a geological map of the country. I feel sure it would be a

su ccess, as every portion of New Guinea that we have any knowledge of is auriferous, ancl this can be easily seen by examining a map of the country showincr the situation of the present known gold­ bearint areas. There b:as never been a trip of this

kind done in the country, and if one were arranged, I think it would induce' people to form syndicates in Australia, and come here with a Yiew of pro pect­ inrr on their own account as a speculation, a'1d

th;t. of course, would also assist the development of the countrv. The £1,000 is allowing for a

tri n of ei£rht months, and I think it would be quite sufficient for the purpose. The party should con­ sist of a geologist, three or four miners, and car­ ri ers. I have not included miners' wages in t:1e

e. timat€', as I am (]Uite sure that first-class men

wauld be only too ready to give their time for an

70

object of this kind. When the geologist came here he could also examine the known gold-field , and tl1e information would IJe ycry valuaule to u ·.

JOHN THOMPSON SEYMOUR \\'as examined, as follows:--1765. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name?-A .. John Thompson Seymour.

1766. Q. What position do you occupy in the

service ?-A. Superintendent of Roads, :Korthern ] )i vi sion. 1767. Q. Are you responsible for the condition of the roads in this Division ?-A. Under l\lr.

Monckton. I receive mv instructions from him. 1768. Q. I understanJ. that the road from Euna Bay to the Yodda is in anything but a satisfactory condition ?-A. It is much more satisfactory than

when I came here. 1 769. Q. Do you consider it is .in a satisfactory

condition at the present time ?-A .. · ' O. 1770. Q. Can yc;m ,give us any reason for that

state of affairs?--A. Want of money is the chief

reason, 1771. Q. Is there any other reason ?-A. No. If we had the money we could get proper labour. 1 77 2. Q. Do you mean native or European

labour ?-A. It would require European labour to make a good road, with suitable bridges, and to

raise the road. 1773. Q. Could that not be done by natiYc

labour ?-A. Io, not the skilled work, such as

building suitable bridges. 1774. Q. Is the native labour you have at pre-

sent satisfactory ?-A. No. 1775. Q. In-what way is it not?-A. It is very difficult to get on account of the keen competition between the stores and the Government, and when you do get the boys they do not remain long.

Five weeks is the longest period I have had them at one time. Then they have had enough, and

clear awav. 177 6. Q. Have you power to engage the boys

for anv stated period ?-A. No. If I am in a

difficultv I relv on )Ir. Monckton, and he sees me out of i"t. He helps me to get labour.

1777. Q. Then the roads might be in an im­

passable state, and it might be absolutely and ur­ gently ne essary that thev should be repaired, and still you might be utterlv unable to do anvthing, as your boys might walk away any moment ?-A. That is so.

177 8. 0. Does this occur with private people?­ A .. Yes; the labourers are continualh: running awav. r 779. 0. I understand that in the case of pri­

vate people, they have their boys signed on for a

d efinite period, and if thev run awa,· there is a

power to bring them back, that is the Government? -A. That is so.

r 780. 0. Has not the GoYernment or arn· officer of the Government power to sign on boYs ?-A .. I do not know, and can only say about my mrn

work. 178r. Q. Have you power to sign on bo~s?-.4. No power at ::i.lL 17-82. Q. If you had that power rri,·en to rn11. would it enable vou to get o,·er your difficulty ?-A .. It wo1.1ld help me a gre::1t deal.

178,,. n. ·can YOU gi,·e an,· 0ther specific in­ ~tan"E'S of

the Runa tribe wo 1ld not shift out of tl,eir lwts for T'lf'. T hase ::1s ·0

h11n

I I

only a small matter, I have never bothered brincring it before 1fr. Monckton. . b

17 ?4· Q. Have you put this position before the Admm1strator ?-A. Yes, partly. Some time ago I asked, through )Ir. )Ionckton, for a dozen bovs who could handle tools, to make bridges, as I a·m not a carpenter. Mr. Ionckton wrote down and

spoke to the Administrator, and I spoke to him

here: and he_ said he would do his best to get them, but 1t \Yas difficult, as they were scattered so much. . ~ 7_ 8 5. Q. Did you point out to him the im pos­

s1b1hty of doing work unless you h ad power to

keep these boys for a definite time ?-A. No; but I told him I could do much better work if I had

those signed on boys who could use tools, as iust

when I get the other boys to be useful, away they

go. When he was here the other day, he said he

would do all he could to help me.

17 86. Q. Are we to 1.mderstand that unless a

more satisfactory system is commenced, it will be quite impossible to do good road work in the

Korthern Division ?-A. Yes. 1787. Q. Would it not m aterially help you in

keeping this road in passable order if you could get the labour you get at present signed on for ;1

definite period ?-A. It would help me a good

deal, but even they are not good enough. They

are good e nough to dcY the labouring work on the road. 1788. Q. Supposing these unskilled labourers were signed on to you for a period of twelve

months. or more, would it be possible to teach them a certain amount of skilled work ?-A. Yes; I am sure it would. 1789. Mr. H erbert.-How tong have you been on the road ?-A. Since the 4th April.

1790. Q. What do you think it wou'Id cost to

make a ro.'.ld to Kokoda fit for mule traffic ?-A. That entails the erection• of bridges. I should

say fully between £2,000 and £3,000. 1791. Q. The chief expenditurn would be

bridges ?-A. Yes. The bulk of it.

1792. Q. Is there any one bridge that w~uld_

cost much more th.an the others ?-A. The Kumus1 bridrre would cost nearly as much as all the others. 1;93. Q. Then, dispensin~ with the K~mu~i

bridrre what could you do 1t for?-A. I thmk it

would' cost about £2,000 to enable traffic to go alono- in all weathers, wet or dry. r t94· Q. Is t?e road passable. for mul~s in Jhe dry season, leavmg out the question of ~mdges . -A. I should say it is up to t~e Kumus1, and be­

twe,e n Kokoda and Koko, barnng one place at the Divide . There is no road at all there.

r795. Q. What would that cost ?-A. I would

not like to say the cost.

1796. llfr. Okeden.-Would the bridges you sug­ gest be flood-•proof?-A. If they are 1;1ade pro­ . per 1 y. One or two wou~d have very wide spans. The Kumusi is very rapid.

q 97. Tlte Cltairman.-Do you pay all the boys employed by you the full curr,ent rate of wages?-A. No. .

1798. Q. What are thev paid ?-A. I requ1S1-tioned for some trade for them so tha t I c~uld pay equal to the others, but I do not know how it turned out. I pav them three sticks of tobacco per head

per day. The stores give them tomahawks, beads, ralico and other trade goods, and they get boys

easier' than we do. 17 99 . O. Supposing you were in a position to

nav your boys at the same ~ates as the stores. anc; in ·the same way, do you thmk _that that would ~e, over the difficulty of their clearing out and leaving yo:..i?-A. No.

'11

THE HO:\"ORABLE CHARLES ARTHUR ~i\"II1H10RE' MONCKTO~ . M.L.C.,

\\·as examined, as follows : -1800. 11Jr. 11 crbert.-What is your name ?-A. Charles Arthur Whitmore l\Ionck.ton. 1801. Q. What offices do you hold in the Ser~ vice ?-A. Resident Magistrate for the Possession ; Resident ~Iagistrate for the Northern Division; Gold Warden for the Possession; Gold Warden for

the K orthern Division_; l\Iember of the Executive and Legislative Councils_; Senior Officer of the A._ -.c.; Senior Postmaster at Tamata and Ko­ koda; Senior ~ ative l\Iagistrate _; Visiting Justice

for Gaols; Commissioner for Affidavits of the

Central Court; High Bailiff; Agent for the Curator of Intestate Estates _; Assistant Registrar for

Births, Marriages, and Deaths_; Inspector upder Indigenous Timber Ordinance_; Inspector under the Diseased Animals Ordinance; Acting-Sheriff; Justice of the Peace for the Celebration of Mar­ riages ; Justice empowered to consent to the Mar­

riages of Minors; Officer empowered to grant or re­ voke Permits under Arms; Liquor and Opium Ordinance; and Receiver of Wrecks. 1802. Q. You are at present stationed in the

Korthern Division ?-A. Yes. 180 3. Q. Did you ever rece ive instructions to

make inquiries on the spot into some alleged

atrocities at Milne Bay?-A. Yes; with the R.l\I. of the Eastern Division, Mr. Moreton. 1804. Q. Were those inquiries made soon after the o:xurrence of the murders ?- A. It was no~ very

long after. .

1805. Q. Did you make any report in conse­

quence ?-A. I cannot remember whether I pre­ pared a special report, but, as far as I can reme111-ber, it was all put in proofs for evidence which\

were subsequent! y given in at the Central Court at Samarai. 1 806. Q. Where do those proofs so taken go

eventually ?-A. I think thev would be found m the records of the Central Court. r 807. Q. Who prosecutes at the Central Court , for the Crown ?-A. N"o one, as far as I know.

1808. Q. Then are the proofs merely handed to · the Judge ?-A. The whole of the evidence taken at the Lower Court is handed to the J uctge. r809. Q. Where will the statement of the wit­

nesses made to you be found ?-A. The original statements to myself and Mr. Moreton should be found on record at the Court of Pettv Sessions,

and certified copies with the warrants of committa l in the Central · Court. r8ro. 0. Did you ever see a memorandum from Judge Winter to the R.M., Eastern Division,

suggesting an inquiry into the circum stances sur­ rounding the death of Sipilia, one of th ose men

a lleged to have Leen killed at Milne Bay ?- A. I

do not remember very well. 18 rr. Q. And suggesting that it should be made bv h.i.m, a11d that vou should accompany him for the purpose ?-A . TO; not in a memorandum to

that effect . I did see a memorandum written bv

the J ud~e in consequence of a letter bv Mr. Abel. He said that in cases where specific charges were made against any particular person or persons the matter shou l

think, "·as that no inriuiry should be made to in­ Yesti~ate vague rumours, but only in particular case" where rh;uges are made. r8r2. 0. Was it in consequence of that me:110-

rwdum tl1at YOU made those innuiries into the de.1th of Sanilia and othe s ?--A. res . 18n. (). Do vou know where that memorandum is ?- A. No. · .

r8r4. n. Where shoul

C. A. W. Monoldon, 14th Oot., 1906.

1815. Q. Do you remember the case of O'Brien, at K okoda ?-A. Yes.

'12

1816. Q. Who arrested him ?-A. I did. 1817 . Q. Who accompanied you ?-A. Mr. Bel-lamy . 1818. Q. On what charge was he arrested?-

A. He was arres.ted on a warrant of common

a ssault. H e was also charged with larceny of

gold valued at about £1,000, with a charge of

shooting with intent, arson, and rape. .

1819. {!_. Can you describe the tmode of his

arres t , and what was done with him until he was lodged in K okoda gaol ?-A. At Kokoda the war­ rant was drawn out for his arrest. I was told he

was at Yodda, and I went there with ~Ir. Bellamy. I found O'Brien asleep in his camp, and arrested him. When he was arrested he said he was ex­

pecting it, and drew my atte~dion t<;> half:a-dozen native const'abtllary who were outside his tent. He said- '' You need not have brought those peo­ ple vou need not have brought those black b----s.

I ~v;uld have come on a summons." I said­

" O'Brien, I have heard some extraordinary tales about your temper, and I thought I would r~ther have them here. '' H e said he would come qmetl:r, and he came. W1 e went t'o th~ Y odda and I left him in my camp an d told Bellamy. He was. in

leg irons, as I had no other means of .secun~g

him, and I thought he would break loose if I did

not put the irons on. We left, I think, on the

:tallowing morning for Kokoda, and I put him in gaol there. 1820. Q. When was his case brought on ?-A. Bither that n i~ht or the following day. There

were three cases, and in one he was dismissed,

and in the others convicted. He was sentenced to two months' imprisonment, with hard labour, on each of the t wo charges. He had no option of a

fin e, and was lodged in Kokoda gaol. 18·21. Q. Please describe O'Brien's. treatment while in gaol ?-i1. Mr . Griffin, the Head Gaoler, and Mr. Bellam\· looked after him.

1822 . (?. What work "·as he giYen to do ?-A. Clerical wo rk in the offiae, and chopping in the

forest- clearing for a garden. 18 23. Q. Was ' he under any guard ?-A. Yes j I ordered t wo of the A.N.C. to be a guard.

1824. Q. What rations did he receive ?-A. Ex­ actly the same as Mr. Griffin and Mr. Bellamy. H e \.YaS f ed from their mess, and bad exactly the same as t hem.

1825. Q. H ow (long 1 after P'Br'ien's conviction did you remain at Kokoda ?-A. Some days. 1826. Q. Who was there when he escaped ?-A. ~fr. Griffin.

1827. Q. Whilst you were at Kokoda. how was O'Brien treated bv the native constabulary ?-A. He was treated with perfect civility. -

1828. Q. Did he make any complaiint to your knowledge about his treatment, either to you or any other offi cer ?-A. No. 1829. Q. Where is Mr. Griffin nmY ?-A. In the Gulf Di vision.

18.10. Q. H ad O 'Brien any visitors whilst in

gaol ?- A. Yes, a miner named Preston, who visited him at my suggestion. 1831. Q. Where is Preston. now ?-A .. At the Yodda.

1832. Q. Was O'Brien's escape, in your opinion, a cause of alarm on the field ?-rl. Ye, , I think

it was. Whit ten Bros.' man.ager and other miners were alarmed about it. 1833. Q. Did anybody show any indication

of fear as to the safety of their propert\· ?-A.

Yes, fr. R ochfort sent his gold into K.okocla

Station to e,

1834. Q. Where was 1r. Rochfort liYing ?--A. At the Yodda gold-field. 1835. Q. \Vas that a usual practice for .~Ir.

Rochfort?-A. Ko. 1836. Q. Had he eyer done it before?-A. He, in common with other storekeepers, had hand_ed me parcels of gold to take to the coast. but it had

never been sent to me to the station before. 1837. Q. Did mu receive the gold ?-A. I

showed Rochfort'; letter to the Treasurer, Mr. Ballantine, and he did not like to take the respon­ sibility of carrying the gold to the coast, a~d s1:g­ gested that we should write to Rochfort telhn~ him so. This I did. Rochfort replied that · he wi_shed the gold to be taken care of, but did not reqmre a

receipt, and would not hold the Governme?t re­ sponsible in any way, anri under tho~e circu1:1· stances we retained the gold, and sent L1.t down 10 t:he JJ! errie England.

1838. Q. How long after O'Brien's escape be-coming known was this gold sent down ?Y Mr. Rochfort ?-A. Approximately, on the thud day after his escape. .

1839. Q. What is the health of the whites and

natives on the Yodda field to-day ?-A. It oompan:s very favorably with any other part of the Tern-torv. i840. Q. What is the health of the whites and

natives on the Gir.a ?-A. Unsatisfactory. 1841. Q. Is it better to-day than it has been?-A... Yes, ·decidedly better. _ . _

1842. Q. What is the chi~f c~use of mort~hty among the natives ?-A. Ben-ben, and sometimes dysentery. · r 843. Q. Do you think a hospit,al is ne?e~s.ary, or would be advantageous in the Northern Division?

-A It would be verv l1ard for one hospital to

supply the wants of bot!1 fi.elds. . . .

r 844.. Q. Would penochcil medical rnsp:ctwn be an advantage ?-A. No. We know what is the cause of the mortalitv now. 1845. Q. Then how do you account for the im­

proYement in the nafri·es late!y ?-A. The Labour Ordinanae has been more stnctlv enforced, loads have been reduced, and traders have been fright­ t>ned at the mortalitv. and ha ,:e take~1 steps to de­ crease it. It was also thteatened that the field

,rnuld be closed to native labour if matters were not improved. 1 846. Q. Was closing the field contemplated seriously ?-A. Ko. but the closing of the native

Jabour on the fiield . 1847 . Q. Would not tbat be tantamount to clos-ing the field ?-A. Yes. 1848. Q. In what way was that contemplated

action conveved to the miners ?-A. Bv circular letters sen t {ound to the whole of them, and by

nublic notices. - 1849. Q. To '"hat effect ?-A. That the increas· ing death rate on the Aikor~ gold-field was exciting rrreat concern, and suggestmg two or three means

to decrease it, and unless the rate was reduced

the Government would ha.Ye to prohibit recruitin~ for the field. The mortality was something over 20 per cent.

1850. Q. What would be the cost of a telegraph lin e from Port Moresbv to Euna. BaY, exclusive of "·ire, insulators and ·i n truments ?_::_A . The mere ('OSt of erection, inclu iv of poles, would be not

more than £~00. Tha.t would inclurle the time of officers and the poJi,,e usPd. Tt would take

about six months to do it. The labour would cost '.!d. a. daY. 1851. (). Is there any question of its practici­

bilit,· ?-A.. · one ,vhate,·er. 1852. Q. Have you formed a.ny opinion of the ad,·antage of connecting ?ort More1by and the

73

North-East coast ?--A. There would be Yery areat advantages from an administrative point of vie,;. 1853. Q. Through whom were the wishes of the Administrator conveyed that the miners of the North­ ern. D.ivis.ion should give .an expression of thefr

chmce of a Legislative 1Councillor ?-A. Through me, but that ha.irdl y puts the case. In the first in

st,ance, the Administrator wrote to me ' a confidential le!ter, and asked me to s,uggest the name of a suitable mmer or other person for nomination to the Leaisla­ ti ,·e Council. I wrote back and mentioned b Mr.

Little's name quite casually .as a likely man, and asked that I be allowed to consult the assessors. He wrote back to me, " Certainly do ·so, but ma.1-e cle:ir to them that we are not bound bv their views." In

the meantime, I went up the Albert Edward, and when I returned I found a letter from the Adminis­ trator askinis me to consult the Rssessors, and let him .ha.ve the result of their meeting. I called a

meetmg at once, and had to bring men from Ail-ora and elsewhere. It took time. The first meeting was at Tamat.a, and they suggested Whitten Brothers. Several miners were mentioned, but t he names were not seconded. The question was asked whether any expenses or pay would be allowed, and I s.aid that,

as far as I knew, there was nothing. I had no know-­ ledg~ of any compensation. I called a meeting at Buna Bay. '.('here were three men there. They were as·ses!ors. One, Rochfort, refused to give any

opinion, aind the others• left it to me. I theni called a meeting at the Y odda, and two names were put forward, W. ·Whitten and Clunas, two storekeepers. A similar question regarding expen\ses was asked

and answered by me to the s.ame effect. Then I sent the whole of the papers to the Government Secre­ tary, and His Excellency sent me a priva.te note say­ ing that the Commonwealth Government had asked

him to submit names before he had received a reply to his letter, a.nd that qe had submitted certain

names. 1854. Q. Up to this time, had you informed any one ht,1t His E:xcellencv of the suggestion that you had ma.de ?--A . No.

r855. Q. Is the road from Euna to the Yodda

practicable to-day for mule traffic ?-A. No. 1856. Q. Could it be m ade so .at a reasonable out­ Iav ?-A. Yes. About £250 would do it, excluding ::i.. bridge over the Kui:nusi.

181:j7. Q. Would that make it practicable for all seas~ns ?-A. Yes-, excepting 1Yhen we had heavy fl oods or .abnormal conditio:ns. 1858. Q. Would a supply of mules for your

station be advantageous. for :·our work ?~A. Yes; undoubtedlv. The cost of transport would be les·· sened,and the use of so manv native carriers would be obviated. The boys could be used profitably on

other work. 1859. Q. Have you had any experience in other Divisions ?- A. Yes, in the Central, South-Eastern, Eastern. North-Eastern, and Northern.

r 860. Q. You, therefore, have had some experi .. ence in the question of native-owned land ?-A. Yes. r86r. Q. Have they dearlY defined boundaries

to their Janel ?-A. Yes. s86z. Q. How a re they usuallv shown?-1.

They have individual plots, communal plots, and tn­ bal bound'.lries evervwhere where I have been. 1863. Q. Are tl;ev becomin!:! mo_re ,clearly ~nrn:e of the value of the land to themsehes ,-A. Yes, m

parts of the T erritory. 1864. Q. Are you a.vare of any instance where natives. ha,,e laid claim to. lands that are unused Ly them ?-A. No. · A

186 5. Q. H.ave you heard of. such p;·act1~es ?~ .·. I haYe heard nguely of them rn the Centrnl D1u-s10n.

0. A. W. Monokton, 14th Oct., 1906.

1866. Q. How many years haYe you been in this Di\·ision ?-A. Three. 1867. Q. Are they less knowing here than they are in other Divisions ?-A. Yes.

1868. Q. Is that regard for the commercial value of la.nd only of recent growth among them ?-A. Yes. I do know of one special instance in the East­ ern DiYision. There was a small island, Eboma.

We required it for quarantine _purposes. The native mrner did not use it or require it, but he would not sell it to the Crown. ·

1869. Q. Is the Government using it now ?-A. I think that at the time we had a lease of it.

r 870. Q. What rent w.as the Government paying? -A. I think it was £6 . in tra<.le per year.

NINETEENTH DAY.

MONDAY, 22ND OCTOBER, 1906.

(Trrn COMMISSION MET AT THE STORE OF MESSRS. WHITTEN BROTHERS, YODDA.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.H., M.L.C. (Chairman) j Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

FRANCIS AUGUSTINE ROCHFORT was sworn and examinerl., as. follows :--1871. The Chainnan.-What is your name ?-A .. Francis Augustine Rochfort, miner on Yodda Gold, field, and holder of Homestead Lease No. 1. ·

1872. Q. How long b..1.ve · you been •in New

Guinea ?-A. About nine veaT . 187 3. llfr. l1 erbert.-What properties do you own ?-A. 36 acres of gold-mining leases and inte­ rests in others.

1874. Q. You have made charges in a letter to the Commission, dated 25th September, 1906. The first is--" 1Iy opening the Buna Bar route to the Yodda on false representation by Captain Barton.'' Wha:(.

do you mean by " My opening the Euna Bay route"? -A. The road was, opened by Government. The stotes tefused to use it in the end. I made use of

it first myself. 187 5. Q. What were the "false representations " h1ade by Captain Bart011·?-A. Captain Barton came to the field and held a meeting here. I laid the

m2-tter of the insecurity of the track before him and showed hir:I:- the letter I had received from my agents, Burns, Phil.Ip., and Co., objecting to my using the track. Captam Barton assured me there was not the remotest danger, that everything would be in perfect order and s.afety, that my goods ta be landed at Euna

would be in perfect safety. I had goods landed to the extent of 7 or 8 tons. From those rroods which ·ffere deposited in the Government Stor~ between 3 1 ' ' a.nc 4 tons were stolen. When I came to inquire, I

found that the Governmmt Store was without a ?oot, and open to any native ,rho chose to go into 1t. }fr om1 bovs were bLamed. In anv case m,,

gcods {n:re stole1;, I was solelv i1 nduced t~ Jand those go8ds there on the false representation that the goods would be safe there, .T876. Q. What did. you say (if anything) to Cap­ tam Barton about the Government Store at Euna at that interview, and what did he reply ?-A. I re­ riuest-ed him to allow Mr. l\fonckton to get the natives to erect a private store for me at Euna: and I would:

F. A. Roohfort, 22nd Oot., 1906.

pay for it. He replied, " There is no occasion.

There is plenty of room in the Goyernment Store.'' 1877. Q. Was anything said about risk?-A. o. 1878. Q. ,, ere you absolut ly th~ fir t to use the

track ?-A. I was. 1879. Q. Did not :Mr. Wilson first use the track? -A. He did. He came up once or twice with goods. He came up the second time purely and simply with a boy of mine who was engaged specially to run the track.

1880. Q. The next charge )OU make is-" The Administrator's false .and malicious reports contained in a despatch to His Excellencv the Governor-Gene­ ral over the O'Brien affair." What are those re­

ports you complain of ?-A. I look at Parliamentary Paper, Xo. 28 of 1905, dated 24th August of that year. The statements therein- that I complain of are, first-' ' Roch fort has been a resident in this

Possession for a number of years. He is an excep­ tionally well educated man, and was· a few years ago temporarily employed by Sir William ~IacGregor ili a subordinate position on some inland road mak­ ing and other work behind Port MoresbY. '' I object to this, because I was called bv Sir William :\Iac­

Gregor from a -temporary into :i, permanent position, but condemned the work, and resigned my position with the Government. The next is-" He usually takes the lead in any agitation which may arise.''

I object to this because I

is for the benefit of my fellow men . The third is-­ '' Mr. Roch fort has aspired to be made an Honorary Magistrate for the Peossessioo." This is wilfully and deliberatelv untrue. I have been asked by Mr. Rus­

sell, Mr. Hislop, and Mr. Monckton to allow m\' name to be submitted, and each time I have refused. I am still on the roll of Justices for Queensland,

to the best of my belief, and have sent in my resigna-­ tion two or three times. I also refer to extract num­ ber four, as follows:-" I may state that while

O'Brien was under arrest at the Yodda I ·was re­ peatedly cautioned by Mr. Rochfort, among others, that I was not sufficiently cautious with O'Brien, and that if he got an op:9ortunity he would certain 1 y

murder me. l\Ir. Roch fort was most emphatic in his warning." This is a statement made by Mr.

Monckton. It is absolutely untrue. 1881. Q. The next charge is-" The farcical ap­ pointment of Mr. W . Little to the Legislative Coun­ cil, and the dishonest means employed. '' What have

you to say ?-A .. I refer you to a copy of a letter,

dated 20th January, I906, from myself to the Ad­ ministrator, enclosing a requisition for my consent to be a candidate for representation of the Gira and Yodda fields to the LegislatiYe Cou.ncil or Federal

Parliament. I put this in. The next ' thing was a

letter to me from Mr. Monckton to meet him as an assessor to choose a candidate for the Northern Divi­ sion of Papua. I saw this ,ms a f~rce, .and any

one the Administrator wished be could appoint. l\Ir. Little does not represent the miners of the field. He is a nominee of a Government official. I put in a.

petiticn .against his appointment. I will date it

to-daY. as it bears no date. It was signed a week

ago. It js si~ned by a majority of the miners on the field . At the meetings of the assessors, the oues­ tion of payment of exnenses to Councillors ,Yas kent in the dark. I don't blame l\Ir. ~Ionckton. I don't

think he kn°w anything about the question of na.y-ment. 1882. Q. The next charge is-" The :11011-enga~e-

ment of a medical man in the dual a.pacitv of

:\Iedical Officer and Warde n, as laid out by Sir W. 1 IacGreg0n" ?-A. This is a 'great failure. Sir

,v. 1 facGre~r had arran.rr d for a med;cal man to he s0 engaged for the Gira gold-fields, and lw ;irri,·ed in Port ~for<"sbv. , ut arrangements with the

74

medical man were not come to with Sir William's successor, Sir F. Winter. This neglect to appoint a dual officer is the reason we have a dearth of bon at the present time. The deaths have been, and a~e still, so enormous. I h.:n·e kno,rn deaths of white

men on the Gira at the rate of 150 per cent. per an­ num. I have known three out of a party of four boys die in one week, and a whole party of eight die on the field . These were nati,·e s. We are in good

health here, but the old state of affairs at the Gira prevents our getting bo, s, a thev fear to come. r 88 3. Q. The next charge is against " The gene­ ral :a dministra:tion of the Administrator "?-A. I consider the Arlministrator does not attend to hi.s duties as Administrator in the manner he should.

He should go round and see for himself. He largely depends on his officer's reports as to what is right and what is wrong, and won't listen to an outsider at all. Ko matter what you write, vou con get no

satisfaction. The Rennie affair : by contributing too much tot.he revenue and getting D.T.'s,he wan­ dered off and took to the bush. A part,· was formed to follow him. Mr. Joe O'Brien's party caught hi:, tracks at the 4-mile, and got over the river, but found

no other trace. In the end. the,v came to Kokoda, ,and gave notice to the Warden of bis loss. Rennie had said he was going to Kokoda before he left .

0 'Brien asked the Warden to send out the police to look for the man. Several miners told me at

night that the Warden refused to send out the police. I got up a petition to the A.R. M., Mr. Griffin, ask­ ing him to send out police to search for Rennie, and I produce ::i cony. I received a reply, which is a

mere acknowledgment of the petition . A meeting was at once called of men on the field, and search parties sent out. O'Brien recm-iered Rennie. :rnd hro1-11Iht him into camp. He has s.ince died. When found he was unable to walk.

1884. Q . H o w does this affect the Administra­ tor ?-A. In eYery way. I further complain that

the camps here were robbed daily, a:nd had been for years. At the enrl of 1903 a sick bov of

Inkster's ,Yas speared in bis camp and died. A

Gc1vernment officer was nt Yoclrla store ;1t the time and was notified, but din nothing. This was Mr. .Elliott, A.R.~I. Firearms were almost a weeklv loss. At beginning of 1904 ~Ir . :\Iurphv and bi's

partner lost about £ 1 _::;o in rrold. je wellen·. :rnd

papers. The camps outsi

~rr. Preston ,v::i.s shot in the ba k, and se,·er::i.l of the bovs \Yere shot. We fcrmed a partY and went out, and when w \Yere starting the GoYernmPnt

officer, "\Ir. Walsh, A.R.:\L, ,ms here ,rith his

police, and was told. He remainerl at the Yodd::i. storPs drinhng until drink was refusecl him. r88_,. Q. Thi,,. completes the comnlaints yoa rtfer to?-A. Yes, but I should haYe liked to haYe said somethin~ more in relaticm to them.

1886. (). You 1113.v do so if YOU really think

they are important in bearing on -your charges? ·-A. I won't go am· further. .

r887. O. Have YOJ arnthinrr more to saY in re­ gard to these charges ?-A. _ -o, r.othi!1g more. I let tbP.m go. 1883. Q. Ha Ye YOU any . 11ggestions to make fer the ach·an .ernent of Papua ?-A.. I h::i.Ye. I think th nati,·e labourers should l' allowed to re-. ig n on to their employers if ,ri lling befor the :\Ia.gi . trate at

t l1e t rmination of his scn·i,-e. It i. of the greatest

importance, ,rh 0 ·1 a hi a.ck or ,rhite man i - l e­

fore the Court. that a E 1ropean interpreter should J, engaged. There should be a more simple rrPa.ns nf appr.:il from "\ f agi trates' deci ions to the hi f

Jt,dioiaQ Officer. 'r instance, in example of this tbe < rase 'Of rdr. \V. Bo,y ler, procecc.le<.l against ':ind :a.~.r St~cl at the_ Yodda on the charge of iHegally Bmovmg a _native boy from his home jn Samarai.

e was bailed, went to Samarai for the hearing,

was fined £40> or ten weeks. The fine was paid> an appeal was made, and the conviction quashed but M,:r. ~mv ler got no costs. In the case TF lzztt;n v. f Brll.h:tm, a pe~ty d_ebts case, there was a judgment , r t e pl~mtiff given bv :\It. Bellamy, A.R.M., ,Q..})Out Apnl_, 1905. O'Brien was notified by a document, signed l:,y Mr. Bellamy, that if he did ~o~ pay: he wcmld be imprisoned for six months in (okoda gaol. There should be crreater effort to Gipture and punish the murderers ;f whites in this cou~try than has been the . case heretofore. I sug­ge~t that a firs.t-class medical officer should be ap­{Potnted as Warden for the Northern Division, and ~ciuld sugges~ .a. special tax of, say, rns. or £1 per ) ea~ tci be paid by the employer, so as to insure the services of a first-class man. . . 1882' Tl~c Clzairman.-Do you favour the tax­mg 01. natives ?-A. Yes, in settled districts. A ~mall tax to pay cost of administration, but not to fo1-ce tt:hem to work. MICHAEL BOWLER was sworn and examined, as follows : -1800. Tile Chaz'rman.-Your name?-A. Michael Bowler, miner. I have been off and on at the Yodda since its ope.cing. r 89 T. Q. H a. ve you any matters to pl ace before the Commission ?-A. I have. I was served with a. warrant from Samarai, signed by C. Owen Tu:­ner., for taking a native bov awav; from his home in Samarai. I wa.s se~ed -by a -black policeman. [_ am sure it was a warrant. I ,vas served in the Yodda store, and the case was at once tried there by Mr. Beaver, A .R.M. He adjcurned the case for eight days to Kokoda, and I had to find a security in £20 a:ncl self in _../' 20 to appear. I did appear at the Yodd;i the eighth day, but no one was there to trv the case. I sent a note to Kokoda that I was un~ble to a.ppear at Kokoda, as I had a bad leg. l\fr. Wh1tten advised me to go to Sam­arai and see the thing out, and have done with it. [ went. On 29th April I got to Kokoda. I was there sened with a warrant or a summons to ap­pear in Samarai on the first opportunity, or words to that effect, and bail was ta.ken, and sureties of £20 of l\fr. Whitten and self £20 to enforce that. Three of my boys, were that day subprenaed ::inrl taken to Samarai at Government expense. When I got to Sa.marai on 13th i\fay, the case was heard on 14th or 15th. I was frned £40 or ten weeks' imprisonment. I paid the fine, and I ap­peaied from the conviction. In all, I had to pay £88 6s. 4d. The appeal was heard. and the con­viction quashed. I got £80 back, but no more. I got nothing for my loss cf time . I had five boys here at work, and I had then recovered in the last week 4 ozs. 14 dwts. of gold. I lost four months' work over that ca1se, of myself and my five boYS. I state these facts but I do not know if I h.a,·e anv redress. I think I should _ have . I am well known in New Guinea, and ~vas cine of t he first prospectors who found payable gold in New Guinea. 1892. Q. Would you be agreeable to pay a t~x per boy to p~y the expense of a medical officer or w;-irden ?-A. Yes, a small one, abc1ut 2s . 6d. 1893. Q. Do you believe in taxing the nativ'es? --A. I do. It would make them work and pay something for the cost of administration. The village chief should be h eld respC·!1Sible . I farnur a. hut tax. 1894. Q. Do YOU favour the Government taking over all recruiting ?-A, J do. It would also be

75 Michael Bowler, ~2nd Oct., 1906.

a great reYenue to the country. I wish expressly to st:1te that l haYe ncthing against the officiais here in relation to my case, but I do blame Sam­

a.mi officials.. Last ~ "m-ember I ,ms barred bv

::\lr. Campbell at Samarai from signing on nati,·~ labour .. That was removed when l\lr. Little got to Samara1. What I was debarred from sianina bovs f I l'k b b} oni or u

DANIEL HORAN

was worn and examined, as follows:-1895 .. The Cliairman.- What is your name ?­ A. Darnel Horan. I am a miner and have been

on the Y odda. and Gira fields about' seven years and a-half·. I wish to refer to elective representation :ind tnal by jur.Y. I belie_ve it _is an impossiibility to do any good m New Gumea till we have elective representation. The desires of the officials may be and ~ave been at times diametricall':'.: opposed to

the will of tlhe people. Any administration what­ e,·er will be a failure till co~!ncillors are elected. No~inees or th~se who uphold a non-progressive policy for_ selfish motives will make things worse mstead of better. If an Administrator were to

strike out a policy of his own he would have some of hisi best friends up in arms against him. I mean some of those on the Council or some of the mer­ cantile community. Tlhousands would be here to­

da:y but for _the non-rrogressive policy of the Legis­ lative Council of Papua. There is no man in Papua who can find out what the Council has done for minersi in Papua, bar the road from Buna · Bay

and it is not finislhed yet, so far as I can hear'.

Yodda was) opened as a field in February, .1900, and the Government is ma.king a track now that should have been made five years ago. The late Mr. Armit, R.M., of Tamata, was the first Govern­

ment officer to visit Yodda Valley in February, 1900. He strongly advised the Lieutenant-Governor to make a pack-horse track to the Y odda. He

poin.t~d out t~at it was impossib)e for diggers to pay exorbitant pnces for goods earned by natives. The Government could have got the natives then to make the track asi they do now. The Government did

not do it, and I hon_~stly believe the storekeepers did not want the track, and the Government cared very little what the -digger thought or wanted so long as it pleased the mercantile classesi. I believe that. it was the ~rofit made by storekeepers on the

paymg-off of natives that kept tlhe human. carriers on the road instead of pack horses. From Febru­ ary, 1900, until the middle of 1902, the carriage on goods from Euna to Y_ o?9a ranged from £155

to £200 per ton. From the middle of 1902 until the end of 1903, from £125 to £170. At present the average carriage is about £roo ·per ton. Still the carriage on some light-weight :articlesi is enor­ mous. The Government could easilv have passed a law that pack horses should be substituted for human carriers. They did no t want to do jt. [ 1896. J Ther~. has ~en too :11-uch restriction placed on recrmtmg natives. First, there is the fee of £6

about, and then a guarantee or pav_ the wages down. A month of the boys' time is gone, sometimes two months, before he reaches here, and then probablv his load is gone and he runs a.way and that lose·s more time. And tlhen he may be no good at all.

I think the ,Yhite men should be allowed to recruit their own boys. At present, thev must first get a

recruiting licence to do so. I do not think that

should be. Moreover, the bors know the miners and would recruit with them, 'when they will not with the recruiter: The present method is totallv against the interests of the miner on the Northe~1 gold-fields, and should be altered. [ 1897. J As re-

Daniel Horan, It-2nd Oct., 1906.

76

gards putting a tax on the natires, I do not think

that should be done. The natiYes should be made to work and clear the roads from one -dllag_e to

another in e,·ery district, and that would be a bene­ fit to the country. They could • e compelled to do so by each Magistrate of each district. [1898.J My opin"ion is 1 hat. the Government should recruit the

boys and pay them off. In my opinion the guar­ nntee system putsi tlhe average miner under. the lash of certain storekeepers, because he may not have the money to pay down. It is 11ot a necessary sys­ tem, because I have been here seven years, and have never known a miner not to pay hi boy. [1899.J

In connexion with elective representation, we should ha.Ye jt without class or divisional embargo. The councillors should be elected on tlhe Commonwealth S'enate ·system, otherwise it would give special pri­

vileges to certain persons they do not deserve. I

wish to distinctly state that I have no personal

grievance against any one, but against the syste1:1 I ha.Ye . It is the old Crown colony system, and 1t wants altering. [1900.J I wish to refer to .'the

O'Brien case. .-~Ir. Monckton in his official state­ ment speaks about O'Brien going to Rochfort's and Atkinson's camps, and says O'Brien must !have been on most friendly terms with them. I think the rea­

son O'Brien went there, was because they were in t he first camps on the roa.d, and because M r. R :>ch­ fort was a kind of leading man here and might

take up his case, or do something for !him. At any rate not for the reason Mr . . Monckton S1Uggests . I wish to state I take exception to the official _ reply sent to the Governor-General. We (the mme~) never said a word about the O'Brien affair untJi

the man was outlawed by a notice 'posted by Mr. Griffin, A.R.l\L, a.,t the s1tore, on 18th May, 1905. 1901. Q. When you say "We, th'e ~iners," w1 hom do you mean ?-A. I mean the mmers ·who ac­

tually signed the petition, 23 in n1:1mber. T?ey

were the majority . I do not wish to .g~ mto

O'Brien's affair now it has been settled, an~ it 1s n~t necessary to bring it up further, the Chief J mh­ cial Officer having r:uled that there is !lo 1':-w on the stai:-:..1te-book to uphold the proclamat1on issued by

i\ir . Griffin at thre· Yodda store. I do not think any arrrument is required in favour of trial bf jury .

I ~-ish to st::tte I never met the Chief J udici:il Officer, but haYe confidence in him. It js not because of

amthinrr ::tgainst him I desire it, but it is because su~h a thing is right and absolutely neces,s.ary. The Papuan Council should haYe power to bcrrow money. Also that a sucrar mill should be erected at Buna

Bav, ::tn

h,mdred thousand pounds would do this., .and have a big population at Buna Bay, ~nd many settlers on that part of the ccuntrv takmg up land. .

1902. O. Do :.:_ou tbink there are p::ty':h1e ouant1-ties of timber 1,ere ?-A . I do. There 1s a fortune for anv man starting .a saw-mill at Buna l~ay . There is splendid cedar, pine, and penril cedar, silky oak,

and a Jot of o+her hard-wood timber, which I do not know the name- of, and is strange to me. I

"·ish 10 say a 0·1t the Buna-Yodc1a tram line I sUP.;­ ;\"<='S.tec1, that it is OYer ]e,·e) C'Olllltry, which Wou]d

re(Jnin"' onh· cuh-erts and httle €'he clone to make it ftt for the construrtio1 of such a lir.e . It may

be nos. ·11le that the Administration may not haYe ha/ sufficient money to c:urv out a progressi,·e policv .. ml uphold a. brgc 1.umber of stations., Yhirh :i.re no\\· round the coast. I think that some f th"'

stations are unncces6ary. I think .a larg nurnh r

round these stations are fr

th ,. did hdore \\·hit 0 men r:-une. ~ ~ o station

~hnt11d hf' fnrmecl wbcr no "·bit<' prirnte sett] rs

are. This ,,·ould free officers for better work in

uch outlying di tricts as this i ..

FRANCI S AUG TL E ROCHFORT

made a further statement, as follows :-1903. l\1y eYidence given before you on the z~nd inst. would be ver v incomplete without an express10n from me of my high e timation of the gentleman

who at present occupies the po ition of Chief J udi­ cial Office r. His unfailing courtesy and strong

sense of justice cannot but command the highest re­ spe~t and esteem of the "·hole of the residents of tl~e Po session.

TWENTIETH DAY.

TUESDAY, 23RD OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE STORE OF ~ lESSRS. WHITTEN BRos., YooDA. )

P re sent :

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K . 11ACKAY, C.B., M.L. C. (Chairman) _ ; l\J r. Justice C . E. H erbert.

MAR K EOYAL

,ras s,rorn and ,examined, as foll ows :-1904. The Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. :\ I ark Royal. I am a d igger , and have been five

years at the Y odda. - 1905. Q. Have you any suggesli?n you ,rnultl

like to make ?-A. Yes. I suggest m cases " ·here

other gold-fields break out the qover?me~t con-8truct a road right away, connectrng 1t with the

nearest harbor on the sea.-board, and give all the police protection possible. Also that tl1e pri­

soners at Samarai and such places be placed on

the roads to rut them out ; it would be n1ore eco­ nomica 1 fo~ the country . I do not fa your t"he plac­ ing of a tax upon the free nafo·es, but that th2y

be compelled to keep the Government tracks open, and to cut other tracks as reci uired to open up the ountry for prospectors. 1906. Q. As a digger, do you favour the Gm·em­

merit taking over the whole of the native Jabour r ruiting ?-A. I do.

I 90 7. Q . Do you favour the appointment of a

good mineralogist and a few good prospectors to go out ahead of the miners ?-A. Yes; but I do not know of any mineralogist having opened a fi ld in Aus­ trnlia. He would, however, per11aps be able to

iclentih mi.nera1s unknown to the prospector. H e should · be a good man, specially qualifi d as a

leader. 1908. Q. Are there any possibilities for dredging in this countr · ?-.4.. I do not knew. Therf"

arf' none witbi~ a f e,Y miles of this distri t. I

think the Government should ai d in putting down a. shaft through the conglomeration ~xisting he-re

to the true bottom to prove it. 1909. 0. Do you rnnsi

ha · L~n made fit for hor. tr1.ffir ,:ear. ago. lt

would haH~ redur d th cost of liYin ~ con. idPr:i.hh·, and a11m ·eel the men to go and ha ,·e ::t look into otit­ si r1 countr v. r910. o.· Ar(' yon in fa.your of {']ertiw· rrprCS('t1·

tation nnrl tri~ 1 h)· jur~ ? - .. l am. mo. t d id di"-

77

DANIEL HORAN

\\·as further examined, as follmvs: ·--19 r 1. Q. You wish to 11and in a statement adu­ ing to your evidence of yesterday ?-A. Yes; I

band in this statement to supplement my e,·idenc,:: From the mouth of t11.e :\fambare Riwr to the G1rn gold-fieid is1 in my opinion, only about 25 or 30

miles, but no track has IJeen cut from the coast to

the gold-field in order to gi ':e the diggers and their earners a chance to ,ralk up and down. They ha\"e still to pay their fares and tl:ie carriage on good5

up and do,rn the ri,·er, about 60 miles, to

1'amata, and the1 are nearly as far away from the gold-field, about 20 miles. Before the Bm:a B'.ly track was made we had to go nearly 60 miles up

the Kumusi Ri\'er, thence about 60 or 65 miles to the Yodda. The track from Buna Bay to the

Youda is about 70 niiles. - Therefore Euna Bay is as near as Bogi, a much better track, and the riYer trouble is sawd. 1912. (2) Re the p eti-ion against the appoint­

ment of ~Ir. Little, 1 merely ,ris :i to state Uiat. ,re

must believe that Mr. Ionckton called the meeting of assessors in good faith. W,e cannot pro-re o~her­ wise, anyhow; but that does not alter the fact that l'lfr. Little was appointed then, becaµse we haye the

Prime 1\Iinister's statement to that effect. 1913. (3) I stroDgly objec~ to the revenue co1'.­ tributed bv the diggers bemg spent on expen­

mental fa{ms. We want an hospital, tracks tG

the gold-fields, and a little more consideration than we haYe hitherto receiYed first. . .

1914. (4) It has bee? !5'aid that th~ popula:10;: !~ too small to grant electi~e represem3:t~on, but d10,L ~s the strongest argument m favour of it, because the unprogressive policy of the Papl].an Government dur­ in(< the past eight years has retarded progres~ and kept thousands of people out of the country. 'I her1}·

fore we want a chanrre, which can only be brought abo~t bv the elected ~epresentatives of the people. In conclusion, I wish you, gentleman,. bon voya,?c to Port··· 1\Ioresby, and should you an-ive there rn good health, vou have establisl~ed. a r~ord, and I

hope you will, and that your miss10n will be a suc-cess. 'd

1g15. Tlze Clzairman.-D.o you cons1 E:r an_ e~-port trade could be started m _ hardwood timbeis m Papua ?-A. Yes; there would be n

Mambare, and Muse the timber could be rafted without trouble to the coast. . .

6 Q Do you think it would De a sound bus1- 191 . . . d ~ess proposition· for the. Government to sen an

ex ert to report on the l.tmbers of Papua ?-A. I

h·o~esth beJieye that the result of that would be a very fo1e thing for Papua,.

TWENTY-F~RST DAY ..

WED_ ESDAY, 31sT OCTOBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET AT THE GOVERNMENT STATION AT KAGI.)

Present:

C. A. W. Monckton, 31st Oct., 190G .

. 1918. Q. You have already made . a statement before the Commiss.ioJ11 at Bw1a Ba, ; 1s that state­ ment correct: ?-.J. Yes. 1919. ,1lr . Hcrbert.-"\Vhat ,rer:; ~he prin~ary oi!­

jects of your trip to ~iount .Al~rt Ed\\·ard 111 _4.pnl and june?- A. Forgeograplucal purposes, and rn mappmg the Aikora l'-iver and golu-fteld,. and. as~er­ taimn o- the localities of the tribes roul)lng 111 U,c

vicinit~· of the Aikor.:1 miners' camps. 1920. Q. Were yo'.l successful ?- A. Yes. _ .

1921. (,!_. Hau your journey any_ other ce11d1cial result ?-A. I mis able to form an idea as to ,vhere the Waria R iYer headed, and, in addition, proYed to my satisfaction th~t the new find _i~ in this terri­

tory. I also ascert.amed the probabillty of a route for a road to the vVaria frJm "\fount Yule, and l)os­ sibly joining the Sacred Heart ~Iiss.ion-road. I :dso discovered the existence of \l' ell-deiined quartz reefs on ~fount Albert Edward.

1922. Q. We have been informed that certain wire ropes and boys' huts promised by the Administrator have not Leen provided in the Gira district.--Is that so ?-A. ~o. The ropes have l.Jeen provided. One has been in positiorn for a.bout eighteen months. The other rope proved to be unnecessary. As to the

Loys,' huts, they \Yere not built, though ordered by the Administrator, owing to the circumstance~ th~t thev 1rnuld become seats c,f infection for ben-ben. S0~1e then existing had already been burnt down by my orders, or on the initiative of the miners them­

seh·es. 1923. Q. Did you report }Our actio111 to the A

entially in another report dealin1g with beri­

beri, and suggesting legislation on the sub

ject. 1924. Q. Did you inform the miners why huts were net built?-A. Yes, verbally, and most of them agreed with me.

1925. Q. Have you any settled pLm as to a road to the Waria should such become neces_sary ?-A. Not yet, but I am under ins,tructions to proceed to the W aria and report after my present engagement

with the Commission. 1926. Q. What Government-cut tracks exist in the Northern Division besides the Buna-Yodda-road ?­ A. Kumusi crossing to Tarnata (connecting Gira and Yodda Gold-fields), Tamata to Gira, and a less

defi ned track from Tama.ta to the lower Gira, ·which is now being use d by the W aria prospecting expedi­ tion. 19 2 7. Q. What is the distance from Mam bare

Beach to Gira by river arud land as us,ed now ?-A .. Forty miles Ly ,rater and lo miles by land. 1928. Q. Is there a practicable land route by

which a l.Jridle track could be made to shorten the distance ?-A. Yes, .a. route of about 30 miles, to join with Tama.ta, making a total distance by land of 50 miles. The track would be very ex­

pensi\'e to make, owing to swamps, and expensivP to maintair. in addition. That route could not com-pete as to cost of carriage with the present route. 1929. Q. Referring to the Buna-Ycdda-road. is there .a safe 'ford for packs across the Kumusi ?-A. Yes, exc pt under abnormal conditions, owing to temporary floods, about half-a-mile below the present crossing.

Colonel the Honor:1.ble J. A. K. MACKAY, M.L.C. (Chairman);

1930. Q. Do you think that road is now ftt

for mule or horse packs, ?-A. res, with the ex-

C. }3.' cept1on of the Divide, and, possibly, a few culverts

'Mr. Justice C. E. H erbert.

CHARLES ARTHUR WIIIT~[ORE MONCKTON

d f the examined. as follows : - was sworn an ur r 19 r ". The C IL airman .- What is your name ?-A. ( ,. .. 1 ,1 ·

1

Arthur Whitmore Monckton. ,. i"111 es

and .a slight deviation at the Rocky to g ·t a ford.

1931. Q. What would b<.> the co. t to make the

Di\·id0 traf·k? A. Approximat ·ly, £300. 19.32. Q. How long "ould it tak to construct?-' .. A .. About two months. 1·933. Q. In )Out opinion, do the Yodda sfcre~ keepers wish to use pack animals ?-A. No.

C. A. W. lfouokton, 31st Oot., 1906.

1934. Q. Why? - A. Because the pres~nt

reason for keeping up prices woulcl ceas~ to exist. 1935.

taining them ?-A. I think it merely an excuse.

193b.

culties of the Divide. It is but recently that ,re

have found that the Divide is the best practicable route. The construction of the road over the Di,·icle has not been hurried, but I have informed the store­ keepers on several occasions that or: six weeks

1

notice of their intention to put horses or mules on the track we would complete the road over the

Divide. 1937. Q. Are natives in any parts of this Divi­ sion sufficiently under corntrol to compel them to keep native tracks clear ?-A. Yes ..

1938. Q. Is this being done ?-Jl. No. 1939. Q. Trhy not ?-A. They are suffici ently clear for police and native purposes, and no one else uses them.

1940. Q. Are these natiYes bei11g used on Gm·en1-ment roads ?-A. Ye3. 1941. Q. Extensively ?-A. Yes, most extensively.

1942., Q. Could not the upkeep of the Yodda Valley-road be almost solely placed in th e hands, of the natives along its route ?-t. Yes, excepting technical work, such as 1ridges.

1943. Q. Is not that road of great assistance to the Governmer:t in preserving order among natives in its vicinity ?-A. Yes. 1944. Q. And so confers a benefit upon the natives themselves, who are numerous ?-A. Yes.

1945. Q. Would it not be fair, therefore, to allot sections, of the road to e.a,ch: village for upkeep ?-A. Yes, provided payment were made for services rendered.

1946.: Q. Do you net consider the safety con­ ferred by Government upon natives sufficient recom­ pense for the work ?-A. Yes, but I do not suppose the native does.

1947. Q. lni the event of its being decided to tax the natives, the tax might be remitted for such ser­ vices ?-i i... Yes, assuming that there is a tax (which I have already stated I do not favour), it would be fair to remit it.

1948. Q. Might such a scheme of, allotment be generally applied to all Government wads after con­ struction with advantage to Governme1~t and native a.like in this Divi sion ?-A. Yes,, where the vicinity

of the road is fairly thitkl v JX)pulated. 1949. Q. Have you seen -_ Ir. Meek's letter to the Cooktown !ndepmdmt _of 12th June last ?-ll. Yes. 1950. Q. Are the statemer:ts in that letter cor­

rect ?-A. No. 1951. Q. In what particulars ?-A. He states that I took to )fount Albert Edward the whole of the available police in this district, from fifteen to

twentv in number. I took onl v mv usual personal escort- of ten men, and did not ir:-ter'fere with the District police. The ten men I took were recruits. I took no men from Buna Bay. There is no station there. The obiects of my expedition were not those Mr. :.\leek states, but for the purposes I have

already explair:ed in my evidence. He states that there are no natives on the Mount. That is incor­ rect. His statement that the police were engaged to round up carriers is incorrect. The carriers were volunteers. He states that the murder near Kokoda was committed by natives of Kokoda \'illage. That is r:ot so. It was committed by Ausembo natives, one of whom is now committed .and in gaol, the other of whom is not yet apprehended. He stales,

with refcrcnc to the murder of his other boy on the

78

same date, that he was "killed by natives of Isurava and Gioora, wh0 lately sent me a long the forearm freshly cooked. The flesh was eatec. off, but the sinews 1Yere fresh on it. lt ,ras sent, l presume, so that I should have no doul>t as to the boy· s fate. ·' As a fact, this boy was not killed lJy nati\'es of

Isurava or Gioora, but by one man of Bivi viilage, Biagi tribe, a qmte distinct people. The bone re­ ferred to was not sent to Mr. i\leek 1 but was fourd by the police. There is no evidence that the bone has any connexion with the murdered boy. )Ir.

_\'1eek says, " I stated that if the Assistant R esident :.\Iagistrate did not come to hold ar. inquiry I would arni my boys and go up to lsmava to remove my property, and in the event of local nati,·es making an attack, ifi some of them were hurt I should not consider the fault would rest with me after the

notice I gave him.n I may state that in a prior let­ ter, ur.dated, WTitten by :Mr. Meek to the Assistant Resident Magistra.te, he says 1 '' l may state that, in the event of the Ismava going unpunished I will certainly do my very best to make trouble in Aus­ tralia as to the existing state of aff .airs in T ew

Guinea, and r.ot particularly relating to the above murders, per medium of the press and Federal members. The boy murdered by the Ismava natives was named Dibine. 1 ' I wish to draw particular

attention to the fact that Mr. Meek, in those letters, pressed Mr. Beaver to punish the lsmava natives, an er:tirely innocent tribe. He further says, " The n atives of Sisoleta, on the Buna-road, are rising, and waylaid two of Clunas and Clark's boys." That is absolutely untrue. He further says, "The natives of Aikora and Gira .are looting the camps of whites

and roamir:g about in large mobs in war-paint and feathers, yet no protection is offered white settlers." The Aikora and Gira are in the Tamata District 2 a portion of the country which Mr. Meek has never

visited, and it was partly to locate hostile tribes

and discover a method of, dealing with them that the Albert Edward expedition was made ar..d the coun­ try mapped by me, and on my return an officer, with a patrol, was despatched to that district with

the information I obtained, and has been since con­ tir:uously there. The statement that the Yodda.-road ends at K.oko_ da is incorrect, but as Mr. Meek has not seen . cither the road or the gold-field I can

acquit him of intentionally telling an untruth. The wire rope at the Kumusi has never carried away. A boy was killed there by careless! y tryir:g to catch hold of the traveller whilst in moti0n. When that .accident occurred-10th February, 1906-1\Ir. :.\Ieek

was away from the Kumusi three days' journey in the mountains. The Government Store at Buna Bay is an iror: building. When locked down the key is kept at Messrs. Clunas and Clark's store, in cus­ todv of tlut firm. No Government tobacco has been mis;ed from this store. Mr. Meek says, "In nine­ teen cases out of twenty the (ver.erea.l) disease is caused by the native police, as every old resident

of British Tew Guinea knows.'' This is a delibe­ rate falsehood. Within the last twelve months, out of 54 native constables in this Division, r:ot one case of venereal disease has occurred. There is a regu­ lar inspection of the Armed N atfre Constabulary in this Division. Finally, I wish to state that, during the last twelve moeths, there has been no act of

aggression committed by natives of the Kokoda District of this Division against Europeans or their employes other than those against Mr. :\1eek's two boys.

1952. Q. H.a.ve you ever asked l\Ir. F. A. Roch­ fort to allow you to submit his name for appoint­ ment to th lionorary magistrac ' of this, T rritor ·? -A. Most decidedlv not.

1953. Q. Referring to 'Brien's case, )OU made a statt'ment in ) our report to His Excell ncy, dated

30th l\I.a.y, 19051 and which is included in Parli1~ mentary 1-'aper .Ko. 28, to the effect that "While O'Brien ·was w1der arrest at the Yodda I was re­ peatedly cautioned, b)'.' :\Ir. Rochf?rt am'ong others, that I w_as not sufficiently cautious with O'Brien,

and that if he got an opportunity he would certainly n:urder 1:1e. ,, l\Ir. Rochfort was most empb.atic i_ n his warnmg. Is. that statement correct ?-t-1. Yes. 1954. Q. What efforts. were made in this Division

to reccrver the escaped prisoner O'Brien ?-A. Ac­ tion was taken as set out by Mr. Griffin in his evi­ dence, vide Parliamentary Paper, :\"o. 28, page y. I also caused notification to be sent to Port ::\Ioresby

and Samarai. Patrols were placed on all tracks

and roads. The Tamata office was also instructecl to watch tracks by means of patrols. The Com­

m::mdant of Armed N.ative Constabulary was notified and instructions given him. The Commander of the Merrie England was also advised and instructed to watch mouths of Opi and Kumus,i Rivers, and

l.,oard all shipping. A reward was offered to the

natives for O'Brien alive, or for information leau­ ing to his capture. 1955. Q. Do you know if .anything was done to press the inquiry-and search outside the Territory? -A. I do not.

r956. Q. Were you present when a deputation (of whom Mr. F. A. Rochfort was. one)J waited upon His Excellency regarding the use of the Y odcb. Val~ey-road ?-A. Yes.\

1957. Q. What protection was offered by the Ad­ ministrator to persons first using that road ?-A. That stores landed at Buna might Le placed in the Government Store, where they would be safe against

robbery by local natives. That gwds or carriers

on the track would be safe from robbery or attack by natives. .

19 5 8. Q. Was the B una store then without a door? --A. Yes; it was :-1. n.a.tive building .. 1959. Q. Was, it open to .any native who chose_ to go into it ?-A. Ko. It was guarded by natiYe

police. 1960. Q. Did Mr. Rochfort depos.it goods in the Buna store subsequently to the deputation ?-A. Yes. ,

1

1961. Q. Were any of his goods st?,len ?-.A. x es. 196 2: Q. Was there any prosecution agamst the offende.rs ?_..A. Yes. 19 63. Q. Who were thev, and what was, the re­ sult ?-A. They were Mr. Rochfort's ow~ indentured boys, .and they were convicted upon their own con­

fession. t 964. Q. Were the goods stolen out of the store?~ A. No; I think not. They were removed by Mr.

Rochfort's own employes, under the charge of a Solomon Islander; and a Port Moresl,y bciy, who were leaders of his, boys, who were known to the constable in c-harge, and who were regularh· sent

hv Rochfort for goods to the store. The Port

Moresbv boy was prosecuted with 24 or 25, others, and all were convicted. Once R<;>c?tort s boys

. d t the store the respons1b1htv of the apoeare a · · f h · police as to his goods ceased until a ter t ell' departure. Neither the Government noir any other · 1 tores from Buna stor,e. private owner ost anv s - . . I 96 S. Q. Was there a1;y guarant~ g1v~n agams.t loss of stores owing to pnvate owners earners pecu-lations alon~g the road ?-A. No. . . 1966. Q. Are you likely to -~et an apph~at10n for a liquor licence .a.t the Wana ?-A. I ha,e ~l­ready been applied to for one. I ca~not ~r~nt it, . 1 1 _ . " e tl'P numhp,· of lH'c> nf'P:-; in tlw as 1t wou c rncrP::i . .., , Territory . . 1 _ 1 - f tl J , - 6.., Q What is th e pract1ca resu t o 1P a,, 1~ 1: ·tl s~le of intoxicating liri_uur in 11w· rTegu _a.trng? 1Ae .It ])laces. - th; whole liquor trnrk o f erntory. - · · 1· d the country in the hands of present icensces, an

79 C . . \.. W. Monckton, 31st Oct., 1906.

so creates ,1 monopoly which extends to wholesale and retail sales.. I believe about twenty licences exist in the whole Territory, of which nine are in the hands of three firms.

1968. Q. What, in your opinion, is likely to

happen C'll the W aria if a. licence is not gr.anted or remO\·ed there ?-.4.. Illi :::-it sale of liquor, probably smuggled from German :\" ew Guinea. The cost of \d1isky at Buna Bay is 7s. In German New Guinea it is from is. to Is. 6d. If licences are not granted, the s.tores and miners will get it from German Terri­ tory. lf the stores, had a licence they would cer­ tainly watch their own interests, a.nd incidentally, therefore, chat of the GoYernment.

1969. Q. Can you give any information as to the reduction of cost of stores at the Y odda since the Yodda Valley-road has been constructed ?-A. Yes; in some staple articles,. Rice cost one ounce of

gc.Jd (£3 1 zs . 6d.) _per 50 lb. mat, and even then at times unprocurable. Upon the road nearing

completion, the price commenced falling, and now stands at 30s. Meat cost 36s. per dozen 1-ll.,. tins. It now sells at 18s. per dozen. 1970. Q. What alteration has, it made in cost of carriage ?-A. Carriage was £5 for a 50-lb. load.

It is now £1 for the same weight. These pr,ices a.re those ,rhicb the storekeepers charge to cus­ tomers.

TWENTY-SECOND DAY.

THURSDAY, 8TH NOVEMBER, 1906.

(THE COMMISSION MET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, PORT MORESBY.)

Present:

Colonel the Honorable J. A. K. MACKAY, C.B., M. _ L. C. (Chairman); · W. E. Parry-Okeden, Esq., I.S.O., Mr. Justice C. E. Herbert.

Mr. E. Harris, Secretary to the Commission.

JAMES GRANT FOWLER

was sworn and examined, as follows :-197T. T!te Cltairman.-What is your name?­ A. James Grant Fowler. I have been eighf· years in :Xew Guinea, sandalwood getting, rubber get­ ting, and trading generally.

1972. Q. You have some matters you wish to place before the Commission? - A. ·People have been somewhat reluctant in corning :forward, on account of not knowing exactly how the Commis­ sion would affo1:a them protection after leaving the

Possession. 1973. Q. Of course, the Commission gives the fullest protection in their pmrer; but ,ou know if a man says a thing which is deliberat~ly a lie,' he :11-a y get into _trouble. As far as the Co~mission

1s concerned, 1f a man states what he believes to

be the truth, he is perfectly safe ?-A. In regard

to the ~andalwood industry. Immediately after the Ordmance No. 11 of 1903 was publi's hed, I wrote pointing out the difficulties in connexion with clause 7. If the timber was felled at t he com­

mencement of fhe wet season, it would be impos­ sible to rnt it out within the three months pre­

srr ibed b\ thf' ordinance. I r ceiYed no sati sfac­ t i'-1 11 in n'g'ird to that. I did receiH' a i-eply to

my lNtr r , hut the Government could not see their w~y clPar t_o amend thf ordinance. In Ma), 1904, I was cuttmg timber m the Nara 01strict. ~lr.

J. G. Fowler, 8th O"V., 1906.

Ballantine came info the district, and Yisited camp of ~Ir. Hide. On the r9th :;\la) I

cei,·eJ a letter from :.\lr. Baliantirn.,, who was sist'lnt Resident ~Iagistratc, to thi's effect:

the signed it with the xception of ~Ir. Hid ~ who

re- bought the timber. As- r98r. 1'/1c Chairmmz. - Then YOU receired no

" Th1rt) - .ix sandaJwcod trees in t.he Epa district seized by the Go ·ernment, anu now offered for

sale. 'Tender to be sent b,· bearer, adclresse.J to

me, on board the Lokollu:" I replied:--·'· 1 m­

possibl • to tender for timber t.hat I hoxe 11eYcr

se~n. If , ou wi1C allow me Lme to inspect the

same, and· a3certain the amount of wood likelv to 'be gGi: from these treL'S, the distance to 1Y.~ :~1.,n­ Y<:} cl, &c., I shall L~ very glad to make you an

offer." On the. fol10,1ing day I received a reply

that '' the timber lus new been sold." I after­

,rnn1s found out that this timber was my own.

I wrote to Judge Robinson, \VhO was then

Acting Administrator, pointing out to him thz;t I had thirty :.\fa1 ipoa Lo: s signed on, and those bo.1 s h.::td deserted. I had bacl to go away and recruit

more Loys, as the Gowrnrnent bad failed to cap­ ture mine: Also that it ,Ya.s the wet season:. I

complained that· I could not cut up the timber in

the prescribed time, ;:aid that :.\Ir. Ballantine was discourteous, in my opinion, to say the least of it, in not telling me that it was my own timbt~r he

was off eri'ng to me. r974. Diel Mr. Ballantiine know that it was your own timLer ?-A. He must have known, because it had my brand on it, acco!d:ng to tne regulat10:1.

I recei,·e d a. letter from J udgc Robinson, dated the 1st June, r904, which I produce. ?dr. Hide, the

s.andahrnod getter, told me that he purchased the timlJ 2r for £5. In my opinion, it was " ·orth :f6o

on tbe spot. A petition ,ms ~.ent in by the sandal­ ,rnod getters to the Government protesting against tbe manner in which the seized timber had been sold, asking that in future all timber Eihould be

ad,·ertised, and ever'y'body have an opportunity of tendering for it. I ,Y as as::-.med this ,Y C,l1 ic1 lie

don'...:. Up to the present Lttk or n::> effort b:~s

been made bv the G0Yernn1Pnt to ret:un the de­ serters to me; and there has ·,1evcr been a c~pture. In connexion with the ordinance the ,rnrds " may be seized" occur. That ordinance is very severe

on sandalwood getters.. ,¥hen wood was plen­

tiful t.he licence fee was £2 per annum. 1-ow it

is £ro.

I 97 5. Q. Did \Jr. Ballantine call on you after

you receiYed that letter from Judge Robinson?­ :Li. He came to the district, but never called on

me. I saw him afterwards in his office. He sai

he was sorry, and that he d;,a not know the ,yoocl he had seized was mine until he had received the letter from Judge Robinson, who had sent him a copy of the correspondence with me. .

1976. JI.fr. Herbert. - How was the timber

branded ?-.1. It was branded " F," and t.he date on which it was cut. 197 7. Q. Is that a registered brand ?-A. "X one of the brands are registered.

r978. i11r. Okeden.~What does the regulation say ?--A. It says that the brand must be on the

timb r, with the initials of the person and the date it was ~lled, and if the timber is lying on the'

ground three months after it was frlled it may be seized by the Government. That timber had been lying on t.he ground for oYcr three months. in con­ senuence of the ,yet season.

r979. Tlte Cltairman.-Is there any other san-dalwcod trader who us s the same initial as YOU? -A. ~o. r980. 111r. Okeden.-Was there any nth 'l' p r. r,,1 in that 'disttict to whom Mr. Ballantine coul

c-atisfaction ,rith reganl to this matter ?-.1. ~·one, Ul') ond what :\Ir. Jiallanti"e himself . aid to me. 1982. Jlr. Ukcdc11.- ,-,,,~as an\' action tak n l., · you to get your lJoys Gack ?- A.'. y ·e . I re1 orte;J

immediately to :\Ir. Russell, the ~\.ssistant I1esid nt -:.\Iagistratc. ?\Ir. },nglish, the .Assist., nt Pe ident :.\(agistrate, told me on board the Lokolm, a.t l>o­ kama, .immediately after the Goaribari incident,

that he had """'n to 1\faipoa, and that he could

h1Ye capi:ured tlY" d 'Serters if he had Leen in­

st.ructccl to do so. That is all I haYe to sa, rn

connexion with that matt.er. ,

I9?.3· T ltc C ltairmau. - Ha Ye you anything to sa.y : ;1 rC'gard to the administration of lan<.ls ?­ A . ' es. 'I\rn rr1ontbs ago I told th . Assistant

R csident. ::\[agjstrate. at Hall Sound, Dr. St.rong, that I mslwd to take up some land, and described the place to him. He referred me to the owners

f the land. I sa"· them. They ,rnuld not sell.

There ,,;,as plenty of land there that, in my opinion, would not be cult: \·ated by them for generations. I had to inquire from the nati\·es elsewhere as to

whether the·, would sell. WhY should I haYe to

go tn the natives and barter ":ith them personally as a person desiring to settle? 1984. Q. What did you require this land for?­ A .. Agricultural purposes. I am of opinion that

compulsory resumntion of land is \'ery desirable. In connexion "< th the rubber indust;y, previous to :.\Ir. Atlee Runes Yisit the Government stopped the rubber industr{. I " ·as a member of the depu­

tation that ,raite

de5;truction of the tr es if it was re-opened. It was afterwards re-opened. W then found that the

rour:itry was over-run by alien As:a.tics, who cut (1mm the trees and tapped them on the ground. I reported the maiter to the Gm·ernment, and the

Guernment closed the industry again to ,·erybodY for a close season. I maintain _that it was po3sible for an energct:c officer in a. district to capture the culprits and punish them. I am referring to the

~ ara· district, in the Western Central Diviision.

r985. ·Q. Were none of these men captured and · punished ?-A. No. The coloured men cut down the trees when the :industry ,ms re-op ned, but dill n_ot clo it "·hen it \\·as closed. It was re-opened,

1 thir-k, oril the first of this month. I "-rote t :) the

GO\·ernment fourteen d:i, s ago, and suggested that a licence-fee of, s;1y, £2 per annum should be

charged for the right to tap the rubber trees. I

bel ien~ the mattPr is bdore the Gov0 rnm nt at pre­ sent. TlwsP Asiatics h.:1.re practicall · heen re pon­ siblc for the state of the sandalwood jndu trr, and fer a grc>at numl'er of rubber tree ,Yhich are TIOW

lying dead in the bu b. In connexion ,vjth the

orclin.:mce, relating to the planting of cocoanuts b~· nativ . it has been prarticallY ignored . ince I

haYe Leen in the countrr. I ~m . p aking of the

vVestern f'c 1tral Divi ioa, "·here I han~ been work­ ing, anrJ ,rhich is undrr Dr. Stro g.

198(1 . (J. In that connexion. b.Y' 11[1.ti,·~ tracl· ht· t·:i h·pt op<' 1 i11 ih.1.t (li;e;1rict ?...-. 1. f n th~ time

of ;:011" of tl " .\ ·si t:u-t 11 !--icb1t . ...i:trat . th

rovls m -·;:-' i1 <···die.it r.onditio:1. hut th'\ are nO\Y bl r·n-11" i·1 a \ ·· I ~d :!ate. .'in e ti ' Cnm11i. icn

;11Ti\l·d, rnc>'t pf th' G, trn11,· :: ffr'"t ·: h ,·, lt·en

\ '''L\ c··1p ~(·:;c. 'l\rn \l ar· :1go tlw rl'.;irle11t: of tlh·

c, .. ·ir,1 1 Di,i;ic,ll ~-·nt al •tition ll th n 'I :1rtm.nt

,~f 1 ,: ~·t rn, l ~' ffo i ··.:. a kinJ for a Con .. 1i ,sion. and

c, r ·1ir, (~c :ira' le ref •·m 1t w~ men 1' a know­

ledperl. ""'opy of that pt>titio,1 ''"- ; al ·o ent to

C:apta1n Barton. 1n regard to European won ~11 takrng native nurse girlh to Australia, 1 ma) 5J.)'

tnat u1e w 1v_es. ot m1ssionanes ha, e that pnnlegt;. ;:,ome Ume _ago my wne was senously 111, and 1iad a young c1111u in ner arms. I asked for permission to take a nurse guL to Australia. 'fhe request ,ms

re±usect. T11e c.1.pplica,t1on was actdressee1 to t11e Kes1ctent :r 1agistrace, 1 understand, l\lr. Bramell, and was maue dunng the last fifteen months. 1967. l ~l r. H croerc.-tlave the missionaries the excfus1 .. e privilege ot takmg nurse girls to Austra­ lia :'~ A. i. unae1:,tand so. At any rate, the per­

nuss1011 was rel used co me, and no reason g1Yen. ~imply the} coule1 not grant the request. . 198(). T!te Chairman.-Had you pointed out the cucumstance::; ?--A . .L\a, simply asK.ed that she . mjgl1t 1Jt permitted to take tne nurse girl. 1n re­

gard to non-oitH.:iJ.l representation on tt1e Lecrisla­ nve Council for this part, I wish to point out° that three non-official members have been appointed by His Excellency from all the other Divisions. The Central Division bas, 1 understand, a population ot

192 whites, the largest population of any Division, and has no non-otncial representation. The Wes­ tern lJivision also has no representation. ln ccn­ nexion with the bird shooting industry, I am of

opinion that there were no grounds. for closing that industry. Like most industries in connexion with which legislation is passed, the Government officials who regula.te them have not an intimate knowledge of the industries. With reference to the taxing

of natives, l would suggest that they be taxed at

±rom 2s. 6d. to 4s. or 5s. per annum.

1989. Q . . Do you mean the natives who are really under Government control ?-;-A. Yes, and they would be gradually increased as more came under control. Linder the present system of administra­ tion the y are becommg lazy and more impudent every clay. In the past sufficient encouragement has

not been given to the prospecting for gold and

other minerals. I would suggest a prospecting vote. 1990. Q. Do you think it will be in the interests of the min,ing industry if a .competent min~ralogist and geologist vvere sent to Pap~a and given a small party of practical diggers for the purpose of ex­ ploring the countryi?- A. It would be an excellent idea. l would also advocate an expert in tropical

agriculture ueing sent here. 199 r. Q. Do you think there is sufficient timber 0£ a marketable character in New Guinea to en­ able a trade being opened up ?--... 4. Yes.

1992. Q. Would it be a wise thing to send o.ver a timber expert to examine and report upon the tim­ bers of Kew Guinea ?-A. Yes, I think that should have been done long ago.

1993. Q. Do .you speak with some knmyledge of hardwoods ?- -A. I haYe been constantly 111 the bush for the last eight years.

1994. Q. D o ) ou think it ~vould be adYis~ble

in the interests of the white s,ettlers and the natives for the Government to take over the recruiting of native labour ?-A. Yes. r995. Q. For the time being, _are you .satisfi ~d

with the existent nominee sfstem 111 connexion with the Leo·islative Council ?- A. J\o, I am not. I

think it° is a bad system. I would advocate elerti,,e representation by postal rnt~n~. . .

1996. Q. What is your op1~1on 111 regar? _to _tn~l by jury ?- A. l am strongly in favou: of 1t 1f 1t

is practicable. Ther,~ ,n:mld b~ no difficulty here in Port :.loresby or 111 Samara1. I~ other places

at the present time, there is a do~bt m my mmd. 1997. (). Are the missionan~s favorabl e to

,rhite settlement ?- A. I do not thmk the): are. 199~:L Q. Would it . be helpful to ,Yl:1te ~ettle­ ment if the natives were taught English 111 all

nussiana.ry schools ?-A. Yes. F.14262.-F

i ,. a. fow1•!J . 8th No,, 1 19ou.

1999. Q. ts the present Admin.istriation doing \\'11ac it ~an to ±oster white settlement 111 J.', ew

1.J Lili.ear-A. Decidedly not,

2000. 1/Jr. lierbert.-On what grounJs have you formed tnat opmion :'-A. B'y reason of the inror­ manon 1 nare aneady . given. 1 would have taken up 1and long ago I.Jut rnr t11e difticulty i know other vc:op1e nan:: nau rn gettrng land.

2001. J ' /te Uwinnau.-Do you think that white settlers w1li e1·er be imiuced to come to 1:'apua un­ less tne Go\'ernment is w a position to otter land ac once anu w1tnout the aelays wnich at present exiM ,-li. Lrness LBe Government · did that the people would be very foolish to come. It is only rn rne hope that this Commission would effect re-101ms t11ac 1 have made an application for -500 acres or land.

WILLIAM rmwrn JOHNSON BUCHANAN ,ms sworn anc.l examined, as f ollmvs :-2002. T!te Clzairman.-What is your name ?~A. v llliam 1:',dwin Johnson Buchanan. I have been 111 .l:'apua since. 1695, but have been entirely a resi­

dent smce 1897. 2ooj.

noc im:ended to bl! personal. ln regard to t11e

aamm1scrat1on o:t lands, l wish · to state that the openmg up of tne cournry is debarred by the non-allowance or purchase. Leasmg can never open up a country 11ke thus. ln ~ovember last, ac-

corctmg to instructions I read in the Ordinance, I made application :tor a certain piece of land in

the village o:t .K.avauvau, in tbe Orokola d1stricL 1 took ic that l womd thus hav~ a pre-emptive

right to that piece of ground, and commenced to bmld a house. In January ·u1e Administrator

came with the Judge to Kavauvau. ...About that time another wnite man came to the place, and

he, without making any application to t11e Govern­ ment, went to live in the house I ha

le:tt the matter until the Governor came, and sub4 mitted it to him and the Judge, and Judge 1\for­ ray told me that the Governor had decided that I could not have tnat piece of land. I said, " If I

cannot have that piece of land, and that man is. in my house, I will pull it down.'' He said I could

not, as in the eyes of the law a house is land. I

had no land, and therefore I had no house. I

spoke to the Governor, and said I would expel that man, and he asked me not to do so. He passed

his word to me in my house that if I would allow the matter to stand over until the new magistrate came over in about six weeks, the man would be put off my property. That man is still living

there. Seeing that according to the law of the

country a man had no right at all unless he made applic~tion, I then told the Judge that if that was a fact all my stations, on which I had spent £600 or £700, any man could come and take them away from me, and he said, " Yes, that is so. " I im­

mediate! y wrote to the Lands Office in regard to applications I had made years ago, which had never been decided, and , got the three letters dated 22nd December, 1905, which I produce. I then came to

Port Moresby, and saw the Administrator. F rnm those letters you will sec that the original appli­ cations have been lost, and I was requested to put in another application on or about the date I first applied. You will also see that they had- no re·

cord of the moneys I had p aid, and th ey asked me to tell them what money I had paid. 2004. Jfr. Herbert.- These three applications were made about 1900 or 1901 ?-A. Yes. When in those letters . the Lan·ds Department asked me to

• :t:,, , , litiol).k.nlltt 1 8th ./6'\f,, 1906.

make new application , th:it i topie of what I

had previously made years before, and of the same date , it ,ras absolutely irnpo sible for me to do

so, because the people "·ho were interested in that land at the time I had made the applicatiC'11S "·ere in all probaLility dead, or supposing that they kne,r that I ,ranted to make another application for the

amount that I had already arranged \\'ith them, they ,rnuld prolx.1.bly refo e to sell. In regard to a

man named Gabriel. H e had a section at Port

:\lore ur, and he li,·ed on it for auout three , ears . H e took up the section under the imprO\·ement clauses. He interviewed the surveyor. and tbeY were satisfied fhat the a moun t of impr~,·ements h~ had made on the property was sufficient. H e left the place, and came to ,rnrk ,rith me dom1 in the \\·est . H e ,ms 150 mil es away from Port Moresby, 14 days' journey . H e got a notice from the Lands Office, not telling 11{m he h ad any payments to make, but saying that if he did not take his pro­ perty off the ground the Government would throw it away. I came to Port l\1oresby, and took the

matter up. I interviewed the Government Secre-tan·, Mr. Richmond being away. Mr. Musgrave told me that because Mr. Richmond was away the

matter .had better remain in abeyance, and 'there would be notfting done. I returned to my hotel, and the same day, Mr. Catt, manager for Burns, Philp, and Co., brought a letter written by 1\Ir. Musgrave to 1\Ir. Catt, as agent for Mr. Gabriel. telling him that if his goods in his house were not removed by the e11d of the month, they would throw · them out. Tha.t was on ilie 27th of tl1e month,

although he knew 1 ,ms agent for l\fr. Gabriel and I was in town. I waited he1·e until l\Ir. Richmond came back, and he said it would be all right, and that Gabriel would not lose his propertr. Gabriel

has subsequently recefre d his dee ds. There is an Ordinance which calls upon a trader for £,r per year for every house he has. Traders have verv extended districts, and natives do not \\·ish to liv~ in their houses or we in theirs, and when \Ye go to a village they ask if ,,·e are going there again, and if we say yes, they build us a house , and t'hen the

Government come along and charge us £1 for that house. I :have five freehold stations, and in addi­ tion I have 24 houses in various districts, places where I simply go ana sleep when I am visiting

there, and £,24 a year is a big tax. Tf another

man comes down in a boat and trades, he pays 1,0 tax. I think every trader should pay a tax of,

say, £10 a year, and that tax should be for each

magisterial district. It should be optional with the magistrate whether he grants a licence or not, and bv that means have a check upon men of known bad character-men w.ho should not be here. At the present time you have no control over the

traders. 200 5. Q. What do you get in return for the

£1 ?-A. We do not get any occupation licence. The ground is · not purchased, and if he likes the native could put us off his ground. I paid under

protes t. It does not give me any right over men

who may come along after. 2006. Tlte Cltairman.-Is there any other mat­ ter ?-A. Yes, in regard to our mail communication b,· steamer. At the present time it is of no good

to us. We are in communication "·ith Cairns, but that is no good, as it is not our market. Sydney

is our market, and the transhipment of goods frcm Cairns to Sydney is prohibitfre. I haYe tried to

open up a timber trade, but it is no good unless

l,e can put it right into the steamer at Vailala. I

ha, c got 600,000 feet of cedar, and Burns. Philp, and Co. promi ed me they would send me a steamer, but they did not, and I ba,'e lost that timh r, a

portion of it by fire, and a porlion by flood. I

m1} have .zoo,OM :feet h0'1.', and b~ th€ end of six months I may haYe 500,000 in ca e some one sends a steamer. .( am going to try and float that timbe, up to Hall ~ound, wllere I could get a teamer.

ln future, ,rhen a steamer is subsidized, and traders along the coast are able to giYe a full cargo, t he

steamer should ue compelled to go and take 1t up. 2007. Q.. Do ) ou thinik if facilities for the

transport of timber were pro\·ided, that the indus­ tn· could be started on the West ,Coast ?-A .. Yes. i( the transport is reasonable. If any one will get me a steamer, I will ship eYery year a million ted of timber.

:2008. Q. lf you had suitable water transport, would it also be possible to supply hard,,·ood

sleepers ?-A. I am hardly prepared to say it ,rn:.1ld . There are other good timbers beside cedar. We ha\' e :\Ialill a, which is a good h ard,Yood timl:er. If a timber man came here with capital, I wi ll

gladly take him up the country and show him all 1 know, and I believe that he will be able to open up a most important trade. 2009. Q. Do you think it would be advisable

2.nd commercially sound to send a thoroughly com­ petent timber expert to report on the marketabl ~ timber of New Guinea ?-A. If that were done, it would do more towards opening up the country than could be done in any other way. Another

matter which causes us trouble is that the Govern­ ment say to us, '' You must not protect yoursel\'es and your life or property, but you must send to

Port l\loresbv and we will come." We cannot do that, because', in all probability, we would be killed before we got there. When I was discussing the matter with the Administrator, he said, "You know if mu do not like the nati Yes doing this sort of

thi1; gi you ha\'e no right here; you have only on e thing to do, and that is to go away." We cannot

increase our pos~essions unless we have pioneers , and inste ad of being encouraged, we are checked eyen· time. We ha,·e no confidence in Go\'ern­ ment protection, because ,re know th'at those people

who ha\'~ been killed were killed right under the nose of the Government. I think the Government should afford more protection to settlers than they do at the present time. I do not think the men

should take the law in their own Hands. Then, as to obtaining carriers . We shall be unable to carry on presently, because the natives will not carry. If a man here wanted to go into the countn·, he

could not get any carriers, because the Hanuabada people will not carry, and others are getting in the same wav. I think because of the benefits the

natives r~ceive from the Government they should be made to do something. 2010. Q. Would it ease the position if the Go­ vernment ,,,ere to take oYer the ,,·hole of the re­ cruiting ?-.4.. I would like to think that OYer be­ fore answering. I 'think that the natiYes should k:now they should render some 1 service for the pro­ tec tion they get. They think that the "·hite ~an

is aJ fool for giving them medicine and other, thmgs and getting nothing in return. 2011. Q. Do you think the natfres under con­ trol shoald be taxed ?-A. He should giYe a cer­ tain amount of labour e\'et,· ,·ear. H e has no ca h to give. In my part " -e 1; a \·e vi] I ages of 8, ooo or

10,000 people, and th ere ,rill be troubl there if

some steps are not taken to keep them in order.

The\· are all right at pre e-nt. Then. in regard to

the power u ed here by the London ~li ionary

So ietY ,,·ho ha,·e a , tern of nati\'e teacher

,, hich, i mo t di astrou ~ TheY ar the mo t im­

moral and deprn\'ed ffi"'l1 we have clffiOncr the natiYe · in their habit and health. They .are put in Yil­

lage. as repre ntatiY of hri. tianih· to the di -­

grace of en:ry ,rhite man. If a trad r doe not

pahcler t6 themj they u e :111 theit influence

against him, and the,· have a power which i very har? to combat. The,· will u e their power

agamst a trader who is not one of theirs, and to

be one of theirs is to be what YOU would not wi h

to be. •

2012. Q. Do you know of Your o,Yn knowledge of acts of immorality on the ·part of these nati,·e

teachers ?-A. I haYe a.Ir ad,· laid information

against Akear, Tupuna, Lati:ira and t,Yo other men. Three are South Sea I sla;1d men, and two

are :'.\ f,l\r Guinea men, and all a,IJ.·~ missionary

teachers of the London ::\lissionan· Socieh·. The,· ar~ at the present time under arrest for abduction·, ;1smg fire-arms, and, I. think, insulting language . fhese men went to different villages and tole

three women, two single and one married. These women were taken and handed over to the white missionary at Orokola., and he has handed them over to his people in the compound, with "·horn at the present time they are living in concubinage, and they are there yet. I hand in correspondence in regard to this matter which has passed between mn;elf and the London -}Iissionan· Societv. I also wis.h to refer to the system of Village Constables. There are villages to which the Government do not come for twelve months at a time, as in the

West. A Village Constable there is simply a 1lack­ mailer. The pay he receives from the Govern­

ment is not sufficient to keep him. He is not al­

lowed to engage himself to ·work for any white

man, and the only thing he has got to make a livin.g is to be a blackmailer. I also wish to ref er to the

waste of mane,· in keeping up a boat like the

Ll1 errie England. It is quite unnecessary. If ,re

had a proper mail service up the coast it would

be unnecessary. The Merrie Engla1zd last year, I think, did three " ·e eks' work in twehe months.

There is also a regulation which is ven · oppressiYe to a certain class 'of white man. A· man is not

allowed to take a "·oman from a district unless he marries her, thereby inducing that man, in all pro­ babilitv, to commit bigamy or other sin. He should be a'Ilowed to take her if he gives a proper guar­

antee to restore her to her own village. Then

there is the up-bringing of half~caste children. Something should be done. The trouble is ju t

commencing. Ther should not be brought up as natives, a.nd the,· should be properly educated from the taxation of the country. 2013. Q. Would it not be better to make. a man pay ,yho is responsible for. the half-cas~ children? -A. Yes., if you a.re certam to catch him.

2014. Q. Would it not be unfair to ask for clean­ living men to pay for the laches of those who are not ?- A., Yes ; but it would be better to ask us to

pay than to see these poor little wretches ru·nning round the yillages. At present there is a half­

caste child running in my village, reputed to be

the child of a Government officer. The woman has taken another native of the ,rest, and the child

would have been taken then2 among the western cannibals if I had not taken him and put him into my compound. 2015. Tlze TT!itness.-There sho uld als·o be pro­

vision by which inquiries \\·hich are asked for mto the actions of Government officers should be made public. We have often asked for inquiries, and

have been unable to get them. I have made appli­ cation for inquiries into the actions of Government officials and could not get them. In 1897 I _ask~d for an inquiry into the action of Mr. English m

connexion with the ,my he treated me when I went into the interior of the countn·. H e interfered

with me as a prospector, and did the best he could to excite the natives to Le objectionable to me, and FZ

W. i. it. '.l:Htohll,t1t11, 8th Nov., 1000

ne le t nie there. ! a.ISO \dsh to ref er to a. state~

ment of the Admini trator that there were ob­

jection ,rhy a trader, or an ex-trader, should not be appointed to any Gm·emment position; and I, a a trader, a k that Captain Barton should be asked what the e reasons are. I have a lttter here from

a man ,rho did apply. 2016. Q. You say the L11erric England is useless, l>ecau e the ,rnrk could be done by subsidized

teamers. How about the Xorthern DiYision ?­ .-1. There is nothing- to prevent the ,rhole "·ork of the Xorthern Di,·ision ueing done by the President. 2017. Q. Supposing an outbreak were to occur suddenh·, and the President was a,ra,·. How

,,·ould the ,· get there quickly ?-A .. Th~re is as much chance of the M errie1 England being awav as the President. You do not need · a steamer nov,:. Our natiYe population at the pr'esent time is per­

f.ectl ,. tranquil. With a steamer service running up and down the coast and the coasting vessels there is quite sufficient for the Government to meet all emergencies.

. :018. q. That is if there were a properly sub-

. s1dized lme of steamers running ?-A. There should be. A steamer gees to Yule Island every alternate month, and wit_h a small subs-idy it ought to go every month. It is not necessary to go fur­ ther west.

ARTHUR EZARD

was s,\·orn and examined, as follows:-2019. Tlte Cltairman.-What is your name ?-A. A_rthur E:zard. I am a carpenter, .and have bee;n in l\ew Guinea for five years.

2020. Q . . I understand you have some complaints t;' make agarns-t the Govermrient. What .are they ?­ ii.. In November, 1903, I signed an agreement in the Court to pay certain money into thy> Treasury eYery month. All these mo!l-eys were paid up to I\larch, 190 5 · About a fortmght ago I went to the Court

and asked .Mr. Champion if he would be good enough ~o gn-e me the first and last dates the moneys were paid. He told me to call again in the after-1:oon. I went in .the .a.ftemoon, a.nd he gave me a list of moneys paid to March, 1905, and I found

out after I came away that there was no record in the Treasury of. any moneys that I had paid. After I came out of his office ~ found from Bums, Philp, an~ Co. th.at I\lr. Champion had got the information

which was. contained in the list he gave me, from Burns, P_hilp, and Co. I paid that money into

Court, thmki~g that at any time I made inquiries I would be able to get information in regard to it, .and _find that they have to get the information from a pnvate source.

20_21. Q. Why were you ordered by the Court to pay mto the Treasury ?-A. It was for maintenance. and the order was that I should pay this money int~ th~ Treasury under an order of the Court. I have paid for six months myself, and got the receipts from the !reasury. I to.en went down west, and Bums, Philp, and Co. had to pay the money into the Tre~sury for me. I gave the list I got from Mr.

Champion to Judge Murray, and he has it.

JOHN WRIGHT

was sworn and examined) as follmrs :-2022. Tlze Clzairman.-Wha..t is Your name ;>_ A J oh.n Wright. , · ·

2023. Q. What position do mu hold in the Go­ vernment ervice ?-A. I am a carpenter and joiner. I represent the whole of the workmen of the Work<; D epartment, and w.a s appointed at a m etin g of the men. The workm n suggest that quarters be

p1 o,·iul.!d for them, as it is impos1ble tb get l 1.·J;J at mgnt at the hotel. Late hours. and noise, suc11 a:; su·ai1Jers conung m ana dn.nkmg at the notel where the men ha\'e LO liYe, make it sometimes 2 or 3

o c10C.l( m the mormng betore the men get to sleeii, and a man is not iit to Jo a day 's work w11en he does n o[ ;ec proper rest. lt is also a great mctucemem

w drrnk. lt. 1s also asked t11.at quarters be proY1deu ror · married men who would brmg the1r wives here. At present there are no vacant houses to bring tl1ern to. it is desired that medical atte,ndance be ailowe<.1 tree, .as fever is Yery prevalent here, and we have i.O p.a.y for a certificate m case of sickness. We ask

that an extra allowance be paid to workmen soot to pl.aces outside Port l\loresby. I would suggest some­ tning about 3s. per day. We are all paid a fixed

wage at present. 2024. <2- At the present time do you get any

allowance for living at the hotel ?-A. l'io. 1 would suggest that free accommodation be given us. We ger a wage of £zoo a year. 2025. Q. And quarters would mean extra pay?­ A. Yes. In the case of married men, we have to

.keep up two homes. 2026. Mr. H erbert.-How many men do you re­ prese,nt ?-A. Eight. 2027. Q. Are they permanently engaged ?-A. Yes.

2028. Q. How manv are married ?-A. I think four, but none have th~ir wives here. E. ~dwards and J. Hughes ar,rived last month, and they agree with om reguests. They are included in the eight men.

2029. Tiu Cltairman.-Summed up, you want free quarters.i. free medical attendance, and, when you are moved to other parts of the Territory where li \'ing is dearer, you want a:11' allowance of 3s. a

·day ?-A. Yes. 2030. Q. Would you consider it a fair concession if the Government provided suitable quarters and charged a low rental for them ?-A. Y'es.

203r. Q. What would the cost be of a suitable

cottage for a married man ?-A. About £160. The old printing office could· be made suitra.:ble for the single men. 2032. Q. What board do you pay at the hotel?­ A. £5 per month. The price for board only would be £4 ros. for a month, so there is very little dif­

ference between the two amounts.

MAX ASSMANN

was sworn and examined, as follows:-2033. Tlze Cltairma:n.-What is your name ?-A. Max Assmarm. I am a trader, and have been nine years in Papua.

2034. Q. I understand you wish to place certain matters before the Commission in connexion with the Lancls administration?-A. Yes. I applied in 1900 for an acre of land at Yule Island, and I heard no

more about it until June, 190 r. I came in once

or twice and inquired verbally why my application had not been entertained, and eventually received a !E:tter dated 24th June, 1901, from the Assistant Res:dent l\Iagistrate .at Port Moresby, s.tating that

the matter was held O\'er pending the survey of a to" n hip at the place. I made several applications aft.... r that to the Lands Office, and was always re­ ferred to that letter until al.Jout two years ago, when

I ,ra · told that so scon as a surveyor ,·;as available he· ,rould come out. The land bad. in the mean­ wh ile, been surve,ed, and I acre taken OUt for Ill , _'\~ c 1e end of last year I wrote to the Legi Jatire

C<, ~mcil. and V'inte

dealt with, surveyed, and title deeds issued, a.nu I also referred to the case o± the Hall Sound Com­ pany, \Yhose application had been dealt with before mine. I received a ietrer, dated the 6th ot - · ovem­ ber, 1905, from the Acting Chie f Go\'ernment Sur­ veyor, stating that an Order in Council had been made that I Le offered half-an-acre, which was shown

in the accompanying tracipg, for £5. Improve­ ments of not less than £50 were to be done in two ye:1rs, and I was asked to state in writing whether i accepted the land on those conditions, ,and to for­ ward £2 survey fees. I accepted the conditions. Two applications of mine were put in in 1900 and

1901, and were only dealt with in 1905 and 1906. 2035. iJlr. H erbert.-In the 1901 application, did you receive .any special communication from the Lands Office in 1905 ?-A. Yes. After writing in 1905, I received a reply, dated 7th Kovember, 1905, rt-'q_uesting me to make fresh application for 1 acre of land at Oiapu, and stating that there was £1

deposit on both Korana and Arupaka land, and there still being left £ 1 deposit to m,· credit in the Trea· sury for no specific purpose .. the Government Sur­ Yeyor would credit me with £ 1 on the present appli · cation for 1 acre at Oiapu, and also that the arpli­ cation had to be made in duplicate, and he forwarded

forms for that purpose. Then, on the 2nd March, 1906, I received a notification that, by Order of

the Executive Council, it was directed I should be offered the block of land in fee for £3 without con· ditions. I accepted that. The same delay has oc­ curred in all mv land matters, altogether there being

three of them. ,, 2036. Q. You have some further evidence to

give about natives ?-A. Yes. At the beginning of last year, there was some report that Dr. Strong

at l\Iakeo interfered with tbe natives in trading

matters. He had told the natives at l\Iakeo not to

sell any sago for less than three sticks of tobacco. i\kGowan wrote to Judge 1\Iurray, and it was re­ ferred to the Resident l\Iagistrate, l\Ir. Bramell, and Dr. Strong was required to m::i.ke an inquiry and report. I spoke to Dr. Strong about it, and

he desired me to see if there were any of the

natives who had originated · this report. I pro­

mised him I would do so, and I gave him the names of the nafo·es. They were some of his own police. He went down afterwards to inquire into the

matter himself. 1 do not know whether Dr. Strong had the services of the two natives whose names l Ead given him as interpret~rs, but I was told so by the natives. When he returned, Dr. Strong told

me he had made iny_uiries, and sent me a letter; dated 4th December last, stating that he 11·ad full:n inquired into the matter on his last trip to Orokola. I do not think any good can result from a Govern­ ment official making inquiries into his own conduct.

I think there ought to be something done to pre­ vent interference bv Government with the natives by influencing the~ in rega_rd to trading matters. I have no personal complarnts to make. I have

ahvays been treated with courtesy, personally.

HIS HONOR, JOHN HJjBE'RT PLUNKETT MURRAY ,ras sworn and xamined, as follows : -203i. Tlte Cltairntan.- What is your name? -- A. John Hubert Plunkett Murray. I am the

Chief J 1diri:1J Officer of the Territory, and I ha Ye helcl thar office' for two , ear· and two monlths. 2038. Q. f under. tarid that the first matter

you wi h to gi, e e, icle nr.e o n is the Jack of en­

couragement to white settl er:, ?~ A .. Ye. . It struck me a short time [lfter I arrived that the Admini ·

tration was inclined to pur u a policy rather op­

poseJ to \\ bite sett! 'ment. The Government had

S5

3. H. P. Murr1ty, ith Nov., 1906.

a.n idea, so far as I could see, that the future of

the country was that it should be a home for

natives ; t.hat the whole of the administration was t? be for their sake; and a policy of passiYe re­

s1s:tance was to be offered to the ,...-hite settler; and this, I assume to be contrary to the policy which

would be approved by t~e Commonwealth, inas­ much as the Commonwealth grants a subsidy of £20,000 a year, and over £300,000 of Australian money has been spent on the place. The policy

the Government pursues is defended sometimes on the ground that the country is not fit for settle­

ment, and that the natives are not yet in a fit

·position to _be brought into contact with white men. There was an interview with Sir Evan James re­ ported a little time ago. He stayed at Govern­

ment House for a fortnight, while the steamer was going on to Cairns and back, and then he went, I

believe, to Samarai. In that interview he justi­

fied the policy of the present Administrator on

the two grounds. I have jndicated. The whole policy of the Commonwealth, I think, is opposed to that. The natives have been treated extremelv well ;

perhaps too well. I think thev have bee~ placed

on a pedestal for too long, with absolutely no re­ sult. If the country i~ not fit for s~ttlement. we

should not have any land or labour ordinances.

You have seen the countrv vourselves, and will be able to judge. In regard 'to the natives, after

twentv or twentv-five years of settlement, a harm­ less old market -gardener, Weaver, ·js killed within ro miles of Port Mores;by, and the obiect of the

murderers who killed him, and who had lived,

some of them, within rifle shot of Government

House, was uartly to have the right to rpaint , t~e nosts of their houses red, and to wear feathers m their heads. If that is ·the result of twentv vearsi

of the present uolicy'. I think another policv shoulcl be adop.ted. [20.,9.l To illus.tr.aite what I mean b\· the lack of enco11ragement to white settlement. I take the land. The scantiness of white settlement

in New Guinea is obvious to any one. There

is reallv none excent by the missionaries, an_d my contention is that it is due, not so murh to the

survey fees beini:r high, or the rent being high,

or even to the ~hance of the n~tives not beinf!

willin~ to sell. but to the interminable delav. I

heard of the delav on the steamer before I came

here and when I arrived, almost everv set of

pap~rs from the Lands Den:irtment which nr1ssed throuflh the Executive sho\;ved thPrP. had been delan r~mging from ,months to vears. The c:u~ of these clefovs ::i.re v::i.ri.ous . There. ::ire some mstr1nres, no doubt in whi.cb' the deJav h;,s been due to the :in ­

nlica~ts nutting in annlirati0ns _ whirh were in­ formal. ;ind it woul

Admi.nistr'.'ltion. T arrrue th~t thP .A rlrn1mstr::itrnn rrenern 11'· i.s tn HamE". Aft 0 Pr I h::id be,"'n her=- a few ~1onths, T railed the ;,ttentinn of th~ Adrninistr_atot'

to this rlelaY. and asl

r~meoied. H 0 sairl. th,,t thP 0elaY was rl.ue to the

slcnrness of the Lands Den::irtment. I had not

heen here lonD" ::i.t the timf'. h11t m'-· subsex­ nerienc-e showerl me that the rlPl::i,,· is geT',er;,llv r1 1w tn Re<:irlent ,farristr:itec::. WhethPr it ic:: rl11e,

tn tl-.e T .:1ncls DPn::trt.ment (W th~ npc::irlpnt "I\ f" ,.,.:~_ tra~es mv contenti.on js tk1t thf' Adrnini.stration is t0 hlam~. · As a mitter of fact, I think thP Resident

Magistrate is to blame in mosr cases. I haYe no~ access to the papers of the Lands Department, hut I can mention a few cases I ha.Ye come acros.s.

2040. There is the case of a man named Graham. He was the man who brouiht charges ag.airn,t Mr. English, and intidentally the papers. came before m , e only w h.terl s o~ 11 Mt t>f Hltv-1 tH t-1tt1rt,

When I was down there he "·as occupving the

land. a~d had beeni waiting' two year· . The

papers shom·d that there haa been either three or ·fo:.· r reminders from the Lands Department to fhe Re, i'd nt ::\lagistrate, but fhey were treated with

nctual contempt. During the first part of the case, the Resident ::\b.r..-istrate was Captain Barton, but he was not liable for the delay in that case. The

matter ,ms then handed to ~fr. English, and then to ::\fr. Ballantine, and the delay occurred during 1\fr. Ballantine's time. As far as I could see, Mr.

Ballantine bad Jost the paper~ for t,Yelve months. I know he passed through there several times, but took no steps about this land at all. The man ,ms

occupying the land. 2041. There ,ms a man called Anthony \Yho used to manage for -:\1r. Ballantine at Scig'eri. He

waruted some land at Hisiu, and evervbody wnnted him to get it. The natives were willing fo sell.

The place is only half-a-dav's sail down the coast. I brought his case up, and eventually he got the

land, but it took nine or ten months. 2042. There are the three cases of Mr.

Buchanan's where a delav occurred of from five to se,·en years, and also th~ case of Assmann, where considerahle delay occurred. 2043. I hand in a list of provisional grant-:

from the Govemment Gazette, ,giving dates of application. In some cases, probabh· the want

of surveyors would cause delay. The delav

is not due to tbe Resi

these cases. I think the reascn whv the­

Resi

if clelay occurs, as they would if delav orC'1.urd in na1ive- cases, such as adulterv, &c. So I put ~he

motives actuating- the Resident Ma.rristrates :is, firstlv. the natur~l des.ire to sf.a.nd well with Hi~ Excellencv, who thev know is not in favour of

white settlement; secondly, the desire to avoid the inr.reaified labour and resuonsibilitv which whit~ settlement invclves, as it is m~1ch mon~ difficult to manacze a district with whites. and natives. than a

Division containinf: natives onh·; and thircilv. the natural dislike of the Resident Magistrates that their ordinarv routine work should be upset on account nf some suecial .pxpedition in reg-ard to a land matter.

The Resident Mag,istrafe 1,as alwaYs, plentv of rea­ sons ·for r.roin_g to pfaces he wishes to e-o· to. by

reac::on of the extent of bis distrirt., So 'that, so f.a1· ns the nelav in land rroatters. is one to want of

:iction of the Resident Marristrates, I considn th:it the Ach11inistntor is rliirectly to blame. Be himself, when R,Psident Ma2:istr:ite. apnears to lPve bee11 iust as dilatory ~s any of tl1e others i.n 'dealing with'

bnd matters. fo one case T knmY, tl1ere were three remindPrs sent to him. ::rnd he h::is carried l1ic; artinn nc:: Resioent l\fagistrate into his nresf'nt n0"itinn. In

::idciition to th"' convers!ltion ,,·ith C ::int:iin 'Rarton fhorth· :iHer my ::i.rri,·al herP. T r::i.llerl .::ittf'nti on t0 the rlP-la,·s several times at thf' 'Rxer\1tivP Cumril. and T J~aYP ;, lways be-en met with <:OmP ~11rl1 :rns.wer

il s this : " V 011 cannot exnert the 1<. i\ f. 's t0 rro

round their Di,·isions looking- for ]and.'' or, "Whv rfo thf'\' riot <'Orne and t.akP up lane{ ronnrl Po;t

i\fo.rPsb,·?" I h~,·e h::i.d other simil:ir answers at nther times. Within the- la:-,t few months, thPre J~as bPPn a rhanrrf". f'Snffiallv since th<> rnrnmis~;nn rarnP here . .::mcl n Jso before that. since the,· c-t ::i rtP rl t.1lkinrr in Parliam-0 nt down south; l)11t 5t will onlv

last :i. short time. I :1.m certain the change \Yill

not be permanent. 104.4. T!ie C7za£rman.-Whv do YOU take that , 11 W ?=A 1 1l MU t COM1tl(1\' th~t, th~ rthW' ~ Mt

J. H. P. Murra:y, ,

th • ov., 1906;

the delay are permanent. If the same Administra­ tion remain -, the same ca.uses will work. The new Land rdinance is a great ,impro,·ement upon the old one, but it all depends upon the Adminis.tration -that is upon the way it is administered. Under the new Ordinance, the Resident :.\Iagistrate will still