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Estimates - Senate Committees - Reports, together with Hansard record of proceedings - Committees A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H on Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for year 1981-82 and departmental expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1981 [Report only printed]


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The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for year 1980-81

October 1981

Presented and ordered to be printed 15 October 1981

Parliamentary Paper No. 263/1981

Parliamentary Paper No. 263/1981

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance for year 1980- 81

October 1981

The Commonwealth Government Printer Canberra 198 2

© Commonwealth of Australia 1982

Printed by Authority by the Commonwealth Government Printer, Canberra 1982

CONTENTS

I. Resolution of the Senate

Page v

2. Membership of Committees vii

3. Estimates Committee A Report 3

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 8 September 1981 11

15 September 1981 13

21 September 1981 15

22 September 1981 19

14 October 1981 21

4. Estimates Committee B Report 25

MinutesofProceedings 1981 8 September 1981 29

15 September 1981 30

21 September 1981 33

5. Estimates Committee C Report 39

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 15 September 1981 43

21 September 1981 46

6. Estimates Committee D Report 53

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 8 September 1981 59

17 September 1981 60

14 October 1981 65

7. Estimates Committee E Report 69

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 I 0 September 1981 73

17 September 1981 75

18 September 198 1 78

13 October 1981 80

8. Estimates Committee F Report 83

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 I 0 September 1981 87

I 7 September 1981 88

13 October 1981 92

9. Estimates Committee G Report 95

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 26 August 1981 99

22 September 1981 100

Ill

25 September 1981 15 October 1981

I 0. Estimates Committee H Report . . . . .

Minutes of Proceedings 1981 8 September 1981 22 September 1981 12 October 1981

14 October 1981

iv

Page 104 106

109

113 114 116 118

RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED ON 27 AUGUST 1981

ESTIMATES COMMITTEES- REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDI­ TURE UNDER ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81: The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator Baume), at the request of the Leader of

the Government in the Senate (Senator Carrick) and pursuant to Notice of Motion not objected to as a Formal Motion, moved-( I) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year End­ ing on 30 June 1982 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in re­

spect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982 be referred herewith to Estimates Committees for examination and report. (2) That expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 be referred to Estimates Committees for examination and

report prior to its consideration in Committee of the Whole. (3) That the Committees consider Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance in the Estimates Committee groupings agreed to by the Resolution of the Senate on 2 April

1981.

( 4) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Thursday IS October 1981.

v

MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A Senator Peter Rae (Chairman) Senator Bolkus Senator Evans

Senator Hamer Senator Reid Senator Tate

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B Senator Collard (Chairman) Senator Colston Senator Hearn

Senator Martin Senator Ryan Senator Teague

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C Senator Lewis (Chairman) Senator Bjelke-Petersen Senator Gietzelt

Senator McLaren Senator Martyr Senator Robert Ray

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D Senator Kilgariff (Chairman) Senator Jessop Senator Mcintosh

Senator Mulvihill Senator Sibraa Senator Watson

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E Senator Thomas (Chairman) Senator Childs Senator Crichton-Browne

Senator Elstob Senator Hill Senator Robertson

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F Senator Townley (Chairman) Senator Coates Senator Georges Senator Jones Senator MacGibbon Senator Withers

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G Senator Bonner (Chairman) Senator Coleman Senator Giles

Senator Grimes Senator Teague Senator Walters

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H Senator Archer (Chairman) Senator Foreman Senator Lajovic

Senator Primmer Senator Scott Senator Walsh

Estimates Committee A Report to the Senate

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the year 1981 - 82, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81, where relevant, relating to the following Departments:

Parliament Attorney-General's Industrial Relations Business and Consumer Affairs

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of the Departments, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the President of the Senate, Senator the Honourable Harold Young, the Attorney-General, Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., the Minister for Vet­ erans' Affairs, Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, and officers of the departments

concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1981 - 82. Answers to questions which were deferred and subsequently given in writing since the Com­

mittee's last hearings will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee's hearings.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters aris­ ing from its consideration of the Estimates:

PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

A feature of the examination of the Estimates of all four Parliamentary departments was the government decision, effected by the Department of Finance in negotiations on the original estimates, to impose a 3 per cent across-the-board cut on proposed expendi­ ture. Only in the case of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff was that decision reversed.

Even more disturbing was the fact that, following preparation of departmental esti­ mates in accordance with the 3 per cent across-the-board reduction, further reductions in proposed expenditure were made by the Government without consultation with the Presiding Officers, which, as Mr Speaker indicated during hearings of the House of

Representatives' Estimates Committee A (H. ofR. Hansard, 8 September 1981, pp. 2 and 3), was clearly in breach of well-established arrangements. The Department of the Senate, for example, made bids totalling approximately $174 000 for the upgrading of printing equipment and for the purchase of a six-station word processor. The Com­

mittee was advised by the Department that both bids were substantially rejected. Simi­ larly, the Parliamentary Library had imposed upon it a further reduction of 18 per cent for reprographic services. The Joint House Department, too, found that $50 000 had been subtracted from one bid, and $117 000 from another, without explanation or consultation.

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In addition to these general and specific reductions in proposed expenditure, all Parliamentary departments examined were limited by a directive on staff ceilings and each department suffered a nett loss of full-time positions.

The Committee expresses its grave concern at the unilateral imposition of govern­ ment controls upon the Parliament, and draws attention to the recommendations of the Senate Select Committee on Parliament's Appropriations and Staffing, which it trusts will soon be debated at length in the Senate and to which it recommends that the Government give urgent consideration.

Departmental priorities Given the constraints under which the Parliamentary departments were forced to oper­ ate in the preparation of the Estimates, the Committee expresses some surprise at the priority accorded certain items in the Estimates it examined.

(a) Parliamentary Library The Committee noted that a massive reduction of 46.6 per cent (from $74 948 to $40 000) is proposed for the Book Vote in 1981 - 82. At the same time, $12 000 is pro­ vided in the Estimates for an 'executive information system', the aim of which is 'to pro­ vide the Parliamentary Librarian and senior management with detailed information about current workloads, backlogs, converting to estimated manhours required to

undertake work and the capacity to co-ordinate similar requests so that we are able more efficiently to meet the needs of senators and members' (Hansard, 15 September 1981, p. 23). A further $6600 is proposed for the programming for the system, and other Estimates indicate that the Library appears to have concentrated on the provision of computer services at the expense of basic research and information tools. The in­ trinsic worth of the exotica the Committee has identified seems at best dubious when areas such as cataloguing services, purchasing of periodicals and accession of reference materials are suffering so dramatically as a result of the decrease in available financial resources.

(b) Joint House Department The amount proposed for consultants' fees for the Joint House Department in 1981 - 82 has risen from $28 544 to $60 000, while further amounts of $25 000 and $4 000 have been proposed for separate consultancies to the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and the Parliamentary Committee on Public Works, respectively.

Following questioning by the Committee, it was discovered that $27 000 of the $60 000 included in the Joint House Estimates for departmental consultants would not now be used for the purposes for which it had originally been sought, while $33 000 is to be expended upon an additional security adviser, who has already been appointed for a period of six months.

In relation to the two Joint Committees administered by the Joint House Depart­ ment, the proposed appropriation for the Public Accounts Committee in 1981 - 82 is $83 increase of almost $18 000 over expenditure in 1980- 81, while for the Public Works Committee the proposed expenditure is $60 reduction of nearly $4000 on the 1980-81 expenditure. Salary and overtime allowances for these two Com­ mittees are estimated to cost $186 000 and $86 500, respectively.

Perhaps inevitably, the Committee made rueful comparisons between the funds generously provided to these two the Public Accounts Com­

the relatively minimal amounts made available to the Senate Legislative

and General Purpose Standing Committees and Select Committees. It is of interest to

4

note that the average expenditure of the eight Legislative and General Purpose Stand­ ing Committees, the Regulations and Ordinances Committee and two Select Com­ mittees operating in 1980-81 was little rnore than $9 000 (excluding salaries and allow­ ances of staff), and the Committee was advised that the Department expects to be able

to service Committees in 1981-82 within the provisions of a $117 000 vote (this figure includes a proposed expenditure of $18 000 on the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, which the Senate administers). The Committee commends to the Senate the consideration of a proper balance of

relative resource provision. The Committee was also puzzled by the extraordinary priorities which led the Joint House Department to proposed expenditure of $15 800 on the provision of new uni­ forms for security attendants; the unjustifiable estimate of $3000 for expenditure on sporting equipment, identified in evidence as being 'for the purchase of tennis racquets,

tennis balls, squash balls, sand shoes, volley ball equipment .' (Hansard, 15 September 1981, p. 7); a massive $116 400 for cleaning contracts for the Hotel Can­ berra and the Hotel Kurrajong; and the pervasive costs of security generally within Par­ liament House.

These items may be viewed in the context of the savage reduction in the provision for books for the Parliamentary Library. Owing, however, to the paucity of detail provided in the Explanatory Notes of the Department, and to the limitation on the time available to the Committee to examine all matters in sufficient depth, the Committee did not consider that it was able to do jus­

tice to its examination of the Department's proposed expenditure and operations. The Committee is of the view that further examination of the Department is required, and therefore recommends: That the following matter be referred to the Senate House Committee for inquiry

and report: The organisation, operation, functions and financial administration of the Joint House Department If this proposed reference is accepted in Committee of the Whole and by the Senate, a further motion relating to the proceedings and powers of the Committee would be

required.

ATTORNEY -GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

The Committee was pleased to note the responsiveness of the Attorney-General and his Department in two areas on which the Committee has previously commented. The first concerns the provision of details of fees paid to individual counsel engaged by the Commonwealth-a matter on which certain representations have been made both to

the Committee and to the Attorney-General. As indicated in the Committee's last re­ port, the Committee determined at a private meeting that it would ·continue the estab­ lished practice of seeking information concerning counsel's fees where the specific reason for requiring the information was clearly defined and injudicious or unwar­

ranted invasion of privacy was not involved. The Committee continued this practice at its current hearings, and the information sought was made available in response to the Committee's request. The second area in which the Attorney-General and his Department co-operated

with the Committee concerned a suggestion made at a previous hearing that certain in­ formation given to the Committee might well be contained in the Department's Annual Report. The Interim Report which was circulated to the Committee before its hearings contained the requested information.

5

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

In its September 1980 Report, Estimates Committee B suggested to the Senate that the estimating and administrative practices of the Department of Industrial Relations and the Industrial Relations Bureau required further examination. Estimates CommitteeA has now noted that, following an examination of the estimating practices and control procedures of the Department and the Industrial Relations Bureau, conducted by the Department of Finance, and extensive audits of the Department by officers of the Auditor-General's Office, the estimating and administrative practices have been found to be satisfactory.

DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

National Companies and Securities Commission In its Report to the Senate in September 1980, Estimates Committee B expressed concern that no details of proposed expenditure under this one-line appropriation had been submitted for examination. (In April 1981, no additional appropriation was sought for the Commission.) In its recent examination of this item, Estimates Com­

mittee A has also been confronted by a one-line appropriation, and again no details of proposed expenditure have been provided. It was explained to the Committee that 'the Commonwealth Government is reluc­ tant at this stage to put forward to you details of the expenditure because at this time the Ministerial Council has not yet approved the NCSC estimates' (Hansard, 21 Sep­ tember 1981, p. 354).

The Committee was concerned that the Parliament might be expected to approve an appropriation of $1.3 million, without any knowledge of the manner in which the appropriation is likely to be spent. Fortunately, details of the proposed expenditure were made available to the Committee before this Report was completed, but neverthe­ less the fact remains that there was no opportunity for the Committee to examine at public hearings the information now provided. Further, the Committee established that the staff of the secretariat to the Ministerial Council- for which the Commonwealth will be paying one-half- will be seconded to the public service of a State.

Without in any way criticising the NCSC, the Committee points out that the expla­ nation by the Department, and the overall system, leave a lot to be desired. The lack of accountability to the Commonwealth Parliament for both appropriations and staffing of the Commission appears to the Committee to be highly unsatisfactory.

Petroleum Products (Northern Territory)-Financial Assistance and Liquefied Petroleum Gas Subsidy Scheme-Australian Capital Territory The Committee noted that, in relation to the Petroleum Products Scheme, Estimates Committee F had expressed concern in 1979 that inadequate efforts had been made to ensure that the subsidy paid to petroleum distributors was passed on to consumers. The Department of Business and Consumer Affairs purports to pay the subsidy to the dis­ tributors when certain petroleum products 'are sold in accordance with the terms of a legal scheme formulated by the Minister for Business and Consumer Affairs under the Northern Territory Petroleum Products Subsidy Act 1965 as amended' (Explanatory Notes, p. 49).

Departmental officers indicated that the Act cited in the notes does not require any monitoring at retailer level to check that the price charged reflects the subsidy, and that, therefore, no examination of retail pricing is made. In contrast, officers were able to inform the Committee that the subsidy on liquefied petroleum gas paid to a distribu­ tor in the Australian Capital Territory is passed on to consumers.

6

Two matters of concern to the Committee arise from its examination of the pay­ ment of subsidy. First, the Committee was advised in evidence that 'the Act' requires only that a check be made to ensure that the subsidy is passed from distributor to pur­ chaser, and not to consumer. In checking the legislation under which the subsidy is paid,

the Committee discovered that the Act referred to in both the Explanatory Notes and evidence was an Act of the Northern Territory. No separate Commonwealth legislative authority exists for the payment of the subsidy, the only legislative provision for which is contained in Appropriation Bill No. 1. Second, it appears to the Committee that the

rigid interpretation of obligations under the 'legal scheme' may perhaps serve to dis­ guise the fact that inadequate controls exist over the operation of the subsidy scheme.

The Committee is of the opinion that appropriate Commonwealth legislation should be introduced as a matter of urgency to overcome the legislative hiatus which has developed in the operation of the scheme. When such legislation is being drafted, the Committee suggests that consideration be given to including a provision to ensure

that adequate monitoring at retailer level may occur.

GENERAL COMMENTS

Aggregated appropriations The Committee noted that the Department of Industrial Relations incurred a cost of approximately $8000 for the provision of an AAP news service facility for an officer of the Government Information Unit attached to the new Minister for Industrial Re­

lations. It became apparent that, although the principal cost of the G.I.U. is borne by the Department of Administrative Services, components were scattered throughout the appropriations. Mirroring the concern expressed by Estimates Committees in the past on the subject of scattered appropriations, the Committee is of the view that items re­ lating to particular programs should be aggregated in the notes of the principal depart­

ment, with complete details included within those notes and adequate cross-references in the Explanatory Notes of user departments. Adoption of this practice would enable expenditure on these programs to be more easily evaluated within its proper context, and should not involve extra work, as the information is already prepared in this way, at

least in some departments, for intra-departmental use.

Annual Reports When the Committee's hearings began on 15 September 1981, only one report from the departments and authorities which the Committee was required to examine was available to the Committee. (The utility of having the one report-from the Institute of

Family Studies-was evidenced at subsequent hearings, when many matters which otherwise might have been raised by the Committee did not have to be pursued, thereby effecting a major time saving.)

The Attorney-General's Department, the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs, and a number of authorities made their reports available to the Committee, either in draft or as final documents, before the Committee completed its hearings, and while the Committee was not able to take full advantage of the material supplied, the

courtesy of the departments and their Ministers was appreciated.

One serious omission, however, was the report of the Auditor-General, which was tabled in the Senate on 24 September 1981-two days after the Committee concluded

7

its public hearings, and significantly later than in previous years. The relevant tabling dates for the five years are as follows: 1976 15 September 1977 13 September

1978 12 September 1979 18 September 1980 11 September Committees have always relied heavily on the Auditor-General, as the servant of the Parliament, to bring matters of concern to their attention. For example, matters affecting the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs were identified in the Auditor-General's Report, and the unavailability of the report detracted from

Estimates Committee A's examination of the Estimates before it.

Explanatory Notes The Committee has already indicated its concern about the adequacy of the Explanatory Notes provided by the Joint House Department. A matter involving what turned out to be a misleading proposed appropriation in the Explanatory Notes of the

Department of Business and Consumer Affairs also came to the Committee's attention in the course of its hearings. The Committee was led to believe that the salary component of the Petroleum Products Pricing Authority would be approximately $1 .2 million. Further questioning elicited the information that staff who have been declared surplus as a result of the abolition of the Prices Justification Tribunal are to be paid from the PPPA vote until

they are redeployed under the Commonwealth Employees (Redeployment and Retirement) Act. The actual cost of the entire operation of the PPPA is expected to be less than half a million dollars.

4. In conclusion, the Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the President of the Senate, the Attorney-General, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs and the officers of the various departments who assisted the Committee.

8

P.E.RAE Chairman October 1981

Estimates Committee A Minutes of Proceedings

9

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

TUESDAY 8 SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 10.50 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 6. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.

2. CHANGES IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entries in the Journals of the Senate of 26 and 27 August 1981 recording the following changes in the membership of the Committee were reported:

26 August 1981 Discharged: Senator Hamer Appointed: Senators Bolkus, Martin and Reid

27 August 1981 Discharged: Senator Martin Appointed: Senator Hamer

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81 The Chairman reported the Resolution of the Senate of 27 August 1981 referring to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82 and Expenditure under

the Advance to the Minister for Finance, where relevant, for the following departments:

Parliament Attorney-General's Department Department of Industrial Relations Department of Business and Consumer Affairs

4. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES

The Committee discussed the procedures to be followed in the consideration of the Es­ timates. The Committee noted receipt of a set of background papers supplying infor­ mation relevant to the Committee's inquiries, such information to be used as individual Committee members saw fit. The Committee noted that research assistance, which

would be apolitical, was available if required, and that any information produced would be supplied to all Committee members. The Committee confirmed the following program:

Tuesday 15 September Parliament Attorney-General's Department

Monday 21 September Department oflndustrial Relations Attorney-General's Department (cont.) Department of Business and Consumer Affairs

11

It was agreed that the Department of Industrial Relations would be given priority on Monday 21 September in order to minimise difficulties for officers coming from Melbourne.

5. COUNSEL'S FEES- CORRESPONDENCE WITH N.S.W . BAR COUNCIL The Chairman made a statement detailing the past history of this matter. It was agreed, after discussion, that the Committee would continue its previous practice, in keeping with its intention that no injudicious or unwarranted invasion of privacy should occur, that where information was sought on fees paid to individual counsel, the specific reason for seeking such information would be clearly defined.

6. DEVELOPMENT OF ESTIMATES COMMITTEES The Chairman made a statement in which he expressed the view that Estimates Com­ mittees had the potential to develop further. He recounted the history of Estimates Committees, indicating that he saw program evaluation as the next logical develop­ ment. Members of the Committee were asked to consider how development of the Esti­ mates Committee system might best occur.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.05 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, D.S.C., Senator M. E. Reid. An apology was received from Senator M. C. Tate.

12

PETER RAE Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

TUESDAY 15 SEPTEMBER 1981

I . MEETING: The Committee met at 4.15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982, the Particu­ lars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982

and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81 - PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS In attendance: Senator the Honourable Harold Young, President of the Senate, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Department of the Senate-Mr K. 0. Bradshaw, Clerk of the Senate Mr H . G. Smith, Clerk-Assistant Mr P. N. Murdoch, Usher of the Black Rod

Mr C. G. Edwards, Clerk of Committees Mr G. M. Nankervis, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Administration) Parliamentary Reporting Staff-Mr J. W. Roberts, Principal Parliamentary Reporter

Mr M . J. Farrelley, Administrative Officer Parliamentary Library-Mr H. MacLean, Acting Parliamentary Librarian Dr G. Webb, Head, Legislative Research Service

Mrs R. M. Sluyters, Acting Head Librarian Mr J . Brudenall, Head, Systems and Co-ordination Mr M. Bray, Senior Executive Officer Mr H . Knight, Finance Officer Joint House Department-

Mr J. M. Jorgensen, Secretary Mr R. L. Burrell, Operations Manager Mr F . W. Bradley, Director, Finance and Administration Mr L. N. Kelly, Personnel Manager Mr C. R. Crapp, Acting Principal Technical Officer Department of Finance-

Mr R. J. Gowing, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr D. A. Connelly, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

13

The Chairman called on the following-Divisions for consideration: Divisions I 01-105 Parliamentary departments Divisions 102, 103, 105 Parliamentary departments (Advance to the Minister for Finance) ·

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981 - 82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81 for the Parliamentary departments, subject to an undertaking by the President of the Senate to provide additional·inform!ttion to the Committee.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.37 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, D.S.C., Senator M. E. Reid. Senators Coleman, Colston, Jessop, Jones, McClelland and Robertson also attended. An apology was received from Senator:M. C. Tate.

14

PETER RAE Chairman

THE SENAtE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCtEDINGS No.7

MONDAY 21 SEPTEMtn:tt 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.30 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81 - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS In attendance: Senator the Honourable Tony Messner; Minister for Veterans' Affai rs,

accompanied by the following officers: Department of Industria/ Relations­ Mr Michael B. Keogh, Secretary Mr Adrian D. Fogerty, First Assistant Secretary, Machinery and International

Relations Division Mr John Woodrow, First Assistant Secretary, Labour Economics, Review and Services Division Mr Kevin A. Power, Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Mr Ross T. Coffey, Director, Personnel and Projects Mr Frank B. Kovachevich, Director, Finance and Services Office ofthe Industrial Registrar-Mr Michael G. Coghlan, Deputy Industrial Registrar, Victoria

Australian Trade Union Training Authority-Commissioner Matthew E. Heagney, National Director Mr Peter A. Wade, Administrator Industrial Relations Bureau-

Mr Desmond L. Linehan, Director Mr William M. Maddigan, Acting Assistant Director, Management Mr John L. Nasser, Acting Senior Executive Officer, Management :. ' Department of Finance-

Mr T. J. Maloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr D. L. Westcott, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division The Chairman called on the following Divisidns for consideration:

Divisions 370, 372, 374, 376, 378-Department of Industrial Relations (Document A) I

Division 909-Department of Industrial Relations (Document B) Division 378-Department of Industrial Relations (Advance to the Minister fQr Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of the Proposed Expen­ diture 1981 - 82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81 for the Department of Industrial Relations, subject to an 1.1ndertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

15

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81-DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

In attendance: Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Business and Consumer Affairs-Mr B. L. Cody, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr R. J. Carmody, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr G. N. Steele, First Assistant Secretary, Tariff Division Mr P. Kennedy, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Affairs Division Mr M.A. Cranswick, First Assistant Secretary, Trade Practices and Consumer

Affairs Division Mr A. A. Bain, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Industries Assistance Division Mr K. D. Crawford, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr K. 0. Stilling, Assistant Secretary, ADP Branch, Management Services

Division Mr R. Emerton, Director, Planning and Services, ADP Branch, Management Services Division Mr P. C. Laird, Director, Finance and Property Section, Management Services

Division Mr J. C. Collet, Acting Finance Officer, Finance and Property Section, Man­ agement Services Division

Industries Assistance Commission-Mr A. G. Koukoulas, Assistant Commissioner, Services Branch Mr F. L. Nott, Director, Management Services Trade Practices Commission-

Mr W. J. Coad, First Assistant Commissioner, Policy Secretariat and Enquiries Division Mr P. M. Holt, Assistant Commissioner, Policy Planning and Secretariat Branch Department of Finance-

Mr T. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 195, 198, 200, 202, 205, 195 (re-examination)-Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document A)

Divisions 825, 828 - Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document B) Divisions 195, 201, 202-Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure

1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81 for the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

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4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 A N D EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81-A TTORNEY -GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

In attendance: Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department-Mr H. T. Bennett, Deputy Secretary Mr L. G. Glare, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Special Services Division

Mr A. C. Menzies, Acting Crown Solicitor Mr L. Curtis, First Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Division Mr P . Loof, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division Mr J. H . Greenwell, First Assistant Secretary, Business Affairs Division

Mr E. J. Wright, First Assistant Secretary, Legislative Drafting Division Mr C. B. S. Fernando, Senior Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch Mr M . Dwyer, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch Mr K. Nixon, Principal Registrar, Family Court of Australia

Mr P . E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr R. Venables, Senior Finance Officer, Central Office Mr A. T. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Mr T . Polleycutt, Director, ADP Branch

Mr A . R. Watson, First Assistant Crown Solicitor Mr J. F. Thomson, Assistant Director, Australian Legal Aid Division Mr A. A. Hardiman, Acting Director, Legal Aid Commission (Australian Capi-tal Territory)

Dr D. Edgar, Director, Institute of Family Studies Mr P . Bailey, Human Rights Bureau Mr W. Clifford, Director, Australian Institute of Criminology Mr N. Sexton, Director, Legislative Drafting Institute Mr K . Crotty, Clerk of the High Court Mr G. Kolts, First Paliamentary Counsel

Department of Finance-Mr T . Moloney, Senior Finance Officer

The Chairma n called on the following Division for consideration: Division 165-Attorney-General's Department (Document A)

The Committee deferred further consideration of Division 165.

The Chairma n called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 180, 184, 185-188, 190-Attorney-General 's Department (Document A) Division 818/2/ 04 Institute of Family Studies, Attorney-General's Department (Document B)

The Committee suspended its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 198 1-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81 for the Attorney-General's Department.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.18 p.m.

17

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator ])J. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator M. E. Reid. Senators McLaren, Mulvihill, Robertson and Robert Ray also attended. Apologies were received from Senator D . J. Hamer, D.S.C., and Senator M. C. Tate.

PETER RAE Chairman

THE SENATK

ESTIMATES TOMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.8

TUESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 1981

I . MEETING: The Committee met at 8.03 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81-A TTORNEY -GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT In attendance: Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department-Mr H. T. Bennett, Deputy Secretary Mr L. G. Glare, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Special Services Division

Mr L. Curtis, First Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Division Mr P. Loof, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division Mr J. H. Greenwell, First Assistant Secretary, Business Affairs Division Mr C. B.S. Fernando, Senior Assistant Secretary, Family Law branch Mr J. Carnsew, Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch Mr R. J. Smeaton, Assistant Secretary, Establishments and Planning Branch

Mr K. Nixon, Principal Registrar, Family Court of Australia Mr P. E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr R. Venables, Acting Director of Finance, Central Office Mr A. T. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service

Mr T. Polleycutt, Director, ADP Branch Mr J. F. Thomson, Assistant Director, Australian Legal Aid Office Division Mr A. A. Hardiman, Acting Director, Legal Aid Commission (ACT) Mr P. Bailey, Human Rights Bureau

Mr K. Crotty, Clerk of the High Court Department of Finance-Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 170, 175, 177, 189, 192, 165 (re-examination) - Attorney-General's De­ partment (Document A) Divisions 818-820- Attorney-General's Department (Document B) Divisions 165, 172, 175, 190- Attorney-General's Department (Advance to the

Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981 - 82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81 for the Attorney-General's Department, subject to an undertaking by the Attorney­

General to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.16 p.m.

19

4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman) , Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, D. S.C., Senator M. E. Reid. An apology was received from Senator M. C. Tate.

20

PETER RAE Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.9

WEDNESDAY 14 OCTOBER 1981

l. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.03 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No.5. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 8, 15, 21 and 22 September 1981 , circulated before the meeting, were confirmed, subject to any amendments proposed by Committee members being conveyed to the Secretary by Wednesday, 14 October 1981 at 11 p.m.

3. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Additional information from the following departments was circulated at the meeting: Department of Business and Consumer Affairs, Department of Industrial Relations, Joint House Department and Department of the Senate.

4. PARLIAMENTARY LIBRARY- CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN PRE­ SIDING OFFICERS AND MINISTER FOR FINANCE: The Chairman informed the Committee that outstanding correspondence between the Presiding Officers and the Minister for Finance would be made available to the Committee later

this day. Resolved: That should any Senator require a further meeting of the Committee, follow­ ing consideration of the correspondence, a meeting be held on the adjournment of the Senate this day.

6. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. Resolved: ( 1) That the draft Report be agreed to with a deletion and consequential

amendments. (2) That should any Senator require a further meeting of the Committee to amend the Report following consideration of additional information circulated at the meeting, a meeting be held on the adjournment of the Senate.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, D.S.C., Senator M. E. Reid. An apology was received from Senator M. C. Tate.

21

PETER RAE Chairman

.Estimates Committee B Report to the Senate

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 relating to the following departments: Communications

Education Home Affairs and Environment

2. The Committee considered the Estimates and the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations from the Minister for National Development and Energy, assisted by the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and officers of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the Senate's consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 1)

1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No; 2) 1981 - 82.

3. Some written replies to questions are awaited and, upon receipt, will be dis­ tributed to members of the Committee and, where appropriate, to other Senators who participated in the Committee's examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the Committee Hansard.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the explanations proyided by the Minister for National Development and Energy, the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and the officers of the various departments who assisted during the examination.

25

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

Estimates Committee B Minutes of Proceedings

27

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

TUESDAY 8 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met at 6.05 p.m.

2. MEMBERSHIP OF ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolutions of the Senate of 26 August 1981 and 27 August 1981 relating to the membership of the Com­ mittee were reported.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: On the motion of Senator Colston, Senator Collard was elected Chairman of the Committee.

4. ORDER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to first con­ sider the Estimates of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment on 15 Sep­ tember 1981 and the Department of Communications on 21 September 1981.

5. OTHER BUSINESS: The Chairman drew attention to the research material pre­ pared by the secretariat and asked that further research requests be directed to the Secretary.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.15 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Collard, Colston, Hearn, Ryan and Teague.

29

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

TUESDAY 15 SEPTEMBER 1981

l. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.18 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.

2. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolution of the Senate of 27 August 1981 relating to the reference to the Committee of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82 and of Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 was reported.

3. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Res­ olution of the Senate on 27 August 1981, the Committee would consider the following departmental estimates

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 47 270- 284 Education 543 843 000

B II 848-852 Education 48 135 000

A 38 220- 227 Communications 286 576 000

B 10 841 - 843 Communications 39 047 000

A 70 330-349 Home Affairs and Environment 139 411 000

B 16 888- 892 Home Affairs and Environment 24 603 000

• Doc ument A-'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'. • Document B-'Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'.

and expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

*Page in Division document No. Department Amount

$

10 270- 284 Education 3760186

18 841 Education I 076

18 901 Communications 49 994

12 335- 336 Home Affairs and Environment 61 237

19 868 Home Affairs and Environment 73 727

• Document-'Advance to the Minister for Finance- Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursuant to section 36A of the Audit Act 1901 , for the Year Ended 30 June 1981'.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1981-DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT

30

Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:

..

Department of Home Affairs and Environment­ Mr A. W. McCasker, First Assistant Secretary Mr F. J. Brice, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Culture, Sport and Recreation Division

Mr P. L. Brettell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Sport and Recreation Branch, Culture, Sport and Recreation Division Mr J. T. Davies, Acting Assistant Secretary, Cultural Affairs Branch, Culture, Sport and Recreation Division Mr R. J. McArthur, Assistant Secretary, Heritage Branch, Culture, Sport and

Recreation Division Mr K. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary, Environmental Division Mr K. P. Cooper, Assistant Secretary, Indian Ocean Territories Branch, Terri­ tories Division Mr H. T. Plant, Assistant Secretary, Other Territories Branch, Territories

Division Mr W. Syrette, Director, Pacific Ocean Territories Section, Territories Division Mr B. W. Palmer, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Management Services Branch

Mr T. F. Fowler, Acting Director, Finance and Services, Co-ordination and Management Services Branch Australian Exhibit Organisation-Mr E. Wigley, First Assistant Secretary

Mr B. James, Acting Principal Executive Officer Office of Women's Affairs­ Mr J. Wood, Acting Director Mr B. Wisener, Acting Executive Officer, National Women's Advisory

Council

Australian Archives-Emeritus Professor R. G . Neale, Director-General Mr C. Pitson, Assistant Director-General, Business Management Office of the Supervising Scientist-

Mr A. Macintosh, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Services Ms D. Taylor, Finance Officer Australia Council-Mr J . Cameron, General Manager

Mr J. Kitney, Chief Finance Officer Australian Bicentennial Authority-Mr W. Fairbanks, Deputy General Manager, Finance and Administration Mr R. Maher, Deputy General Manager, Operations and Planning

Australian Film Commission-Mr J. Skrzynski, General Manager Mr B. Gittings, Secretary Mr J. Maeby, Producer-in-Chief, Film Australia

MrS. Martin, Executive Director Australian Film and Television School­ MrS. Walton, Director Mr F. Morgan, Deputy Director

31

Mr M. Tan, Executive Officer, Finance Australian Heritage Commission-Mr M. Bourke, Director Australian National Gallery-

Mr B. E. W. Kelson, Secretary /Manager Mr G. Andrews, Manager, Business and Finance Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service-MrT. Richmond, Assistant Director, Parks Planning and Management

Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer Australian War Memorial-Mr M . McKernan, Acting Director Mr M. D. G. Coley, Assistant Director, Administration and Technical

Services

Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority-Mr D . Chippendale, Assistant Executive Officer Museum of Australia-Mr B. Peck, Executive Secretary National Library of Australia­

Mr H. Bryan, Director-General Mr G. E. Clark, Assistant Director-General Department of Finance-Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 330- 349-Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document A) Divisions 888-892-Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document B) Divisions 335-336 and 868-Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Ad-

vance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi­ ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Home Affairs and Environment.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.48 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Collard, Colston, Hearn, Ryan and Teague. Senator Hamer also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

32

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.7

MONDAY 21 SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.30 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1981-DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS

Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, assisted by Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Communications­

Mr E. E. Payne, Acting Secretary Mr P. B. Westerway, First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Planning and Op­ erations Division Mr M. R. Ramsay, First Assistant Secretary, Radio Frequency Management

Division Mr A. Guster, First Assistant Secretary, Satellite Policy and Co-ordination Division Mr B. P. Harvey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Development

Division Mr D. R. Eyles, Assistant Secretary, Research and Forward Planning Branch Mr J.P. Coleman, Assistant Secretary, Postal and Telecommunications Policy Branch Mr R.N. Smith, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch

Australian Broadcasting Commission-Mr G. G. White, Assistant General Manager Television Mr K. Bourke, Controller Engineering Mr W. Funnell, Controller Finance Mr G. Reynolds, Federal Director, Television Production Planning and

Services Mr J. Newsom, Director Radio Resources Mr A. Coulter, Federal Budget Officer Australian Broadcasting Tribunal­

Mr B. J. Connolly, Secretary Mr G. P. Dwyer, Director, Public Inquiry Division Mr C. J. Answerth, Senior Executive Officer Management Services Mr J. J. Payton, Finance Officer Special Broadcasting Service-

Mr R. E. Fowell, Executive Director Mr R. Stokes, Head of Secretariat Mr D. Gillespie, Acting Director of Finance

33

Mr D. Forsyth, Estimates Officer Telecom-Mr A. Kellock, Director Finance Mr K. W. West, Manager Trunk Network Services Division

Mr K. W. Power, Chief Planning Engineer Mr T. O'Reilly, Manager Financial Planning Mr A. W. Dagg, Manager, Management and Cost Accounting Branch Australia Post-Mr B. C. Moritz, Acting Chief General Manager Mr B. J. Beilby, General Manager, Marketing Services Overseas Telecommunications Commission-Mr G. F. Maltby, Assistant General Manager Operations Department of Finance-

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 220-227-Department of Communications (Document A) Divisions 841-843-Department of Communications (Document B)

Division 901 - Department of Communications (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi­ ture under the Advance to · the Minister for Finance for the Department of Communications.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPEN­ DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1981-DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, assisted by Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Education-

Mr D. Morrison, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Wilson, First Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr R. Allen, Acting Director, A.C.T. Office of Further Education Mr E. Charles, Senior Secretary, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch Mr I. Ward, Assistant Secretary, Schools and Aboriginal Students Assistance

Branch Mr E: Rolfe, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr J. Burnett, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr P. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr R. Anderson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Departmental Services Branch Mr J. Morey, Director, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr W. Bowron, Director, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch Miss J. Miller, Assistant Secretary, International Education Branch Mr D. Rowe, Acting Director, Language Teaching Branch Commonwealth Schools Commission-

Mr I. Hossack, Secretary to the Commission Mr D. Marsh, Director, Management Services

34

Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission­ Mr L. Hennessy, First Assistant Commissioner Mr D. Robinson, Acting Assistant Commissioner Mr R. Walker, Director, Finance and Management Service A.C.T. Schools Authority-

Mr B. Price, Director, Curriculum Branch Miss T. Reilly, Assistant Director, Finance and Services Curriculum Development Centre-Mr D. Francis, Acting Director

Mr P. Maher, Acting Deputy Director Department of Finance-Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 270- 284-Department of Education (Document A) Divisions 848-852-Department of Education (Document B) Divisions 270-284 and 841-Department of Education (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi­ ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Education.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.17 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Collard, Colston, Hearn, Martin, Ryan and Teague. Senator Robertson also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

35

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

Estimates Committee C Report to the Senate

37

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORTTOTHESENATE

Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Year 1980-81 and the Expenditure from the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 for the following departments:

Prime Minister and Cabinet Treasury Finance Administrative Services

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates and the Expenditure from the Ad­ vance to the Minister for Finance, and received explanations from the Minister for Finance (Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle) and officers of the departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee is included in this

report, and the Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee is presented for the information of the Senate in its consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1981-82.

3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given to supply additional writ­ ten information to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be presented for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Com­ mittee's hearings.

4. The attention of the Senate is drawn to the following matters. (a) Costs associated with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting appear in various places in the Estimates examined by the Committee. This scattering of the costs of the Meeting makes it difficult for the Senate or the

public to assess the expenditure involved. The Committee recommends that, as soon as possible after the Meeting, the Government present to the Senate an itemised statement of the costs of the Meeting. (b) The Explanatory Notes relating to the Australian Taxation Office indicated

that some $1.5 million was expected to be saved as a results of a net reduction of 167 in the Office's staff ceiling. The Estimates of Receipts and Summary of Estimated Expenditure (Budget Paper No. 4) reveals that a reduction of 179 staff in the enforcement branch of the Office was planned. In response toques­

tions asked at the hearing of the Committee, the Committee has been advised as follows in a written answer supplied by the Office: The estimated loss of revenue in 1981-82, as a consequence of the expected reduction of 179 man-years in enforcement activity ... of $46.8 million

would be more realistic if the reduction in the Taxation Office's staff ceiling were to be maintained ... However, the Taxation Office's staff ceiling for 1981-82 is currently being reviewed by the Public Service Board. Until such time as a decision is made in relation to that matter, any estimate of revenue '

lost in 1981-82 would be purely speculative. The Committee considers that staff reductions should not take place in the en­ forcement branch, and that steps should be taken to ensure that this revenue is not lost.

39

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Minister for Finance and the officers of the departments.

13 October 1981

40

A US TIN LEWIS Chairman

Estimates Committee C Minutes of Proceedings

41

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.4

TUESDAY 15 SEPTEMBER 1981

l. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 4.15 p.m., in Senate Committee Room No. 6. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.

2. DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, ac­ companied by the following departmental officers:

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet-Mr A. D. Rose, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr J. G. Hinton, Assistant Secretary, Services Branch Mr A. J. Mann, Senior Adviser, Services Branch

Mr B. F . Cox, Head, CHOGM Task Force Mr K. S. Hutchings, Assistant Head, CHOGM Task Force

Australian Science and Technology Council-Or B. Middleton, Assistant Secretary Mr M . Venning, Project Officer

Office of National Assessments-Mr N. Mcinnes, Acting Director-General Mr N. Denning, Chief Executive Officer Ombudsman's Office-

Mr C. Hunt, Senior Assistant Ombudsman Mr P . Gamp, Administrative Officer

Public Service Board-Mr B. R. Hamilton, Secretary, Public Service Board Mr B. T. Falconer, Director, Mandata Program Office Mr N . J. Quinn, Assistant Commissioner, Staff Development Branch Mr I. T. Allen, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch

Mr R. M. Wedgwood, Director, Finance and Services Mr W. A. Lawrence, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts

Auditor-General's Office-Mr A. A. Taylor, First Assistant Auditor-General Mr J. L. Trigg, Assistant Auditor-General Mr B. H. Farrow, Director (Management)

Mr F. P. Campbell, Executive Officer (Finance and Accounts)

Department of Finance-Mr T. J. Maloney, Senior Finance Officer The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered: '

43

Document A*:

Division 500- Administrative Division 504- Conveyance of Governor-General etc. Division 505 - 0fficial Establishments Division 506- Governor-General's Office Division 511 - 0ffice of National Assessment Division 512- Commonwealth Ombudsman Division 513 - Australian Science and Technology Council Division 515 - Auditor-General's Office Division 516-Public Service Board Document B*:

Division 938 - Capital Works and Services Division 941 - Public Service Board Division 942- Auditor-General's Office Advance to the Minister for Finance*:

Division 500- Administrative Division 505-0ffice Establishments Division 506-Governor-General's Office Division 512- Commonwealth Ombudsman Division 515-Auditor-General's Office

$

24 776 600 3 974 000 2 162 500 907 000 2 020 000

1 585 800 568 000 16 027 300 24 316 800

1 299 000 10 000 4 000

80 269 12 120 60 824 37 925

3 337

Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded. *Document A: Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981. *Document B: Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of

the Year Ending 30 June 1981. *Advance to the Minister for Finance: Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursuant to section 36A of the Audit Act 1901, for the Year Ending 30 June 1981.

3. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Department of the Treasury-

MrS. S. McBurney, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Resource Allocation and Development Division Mr J. Fraser, Chief Finance Officer, General Financial and Economic Policy Division Mr G. Crawford, Chief Finance Officer, Revenue Loans and Investment

Division Mr M. Kooymans, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Institutions Division Mr N. Stuparich, Chief Finance Officer, Financiallnstitutions Division Mr I. Robinson, Senior Finance Officer, Overseas Economic Relations Division Mr C. Hodges, Assistant Director Legislation and Appeals, Office of the In-

surance Commissioner Mr B. McLennan, Superintendent, Royal Australian Mint Mr R. Q. Freney, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. L. Jobling, Director, Finance and General Section Mr D. W. Holmesby, Finance Officer, Finance and General Section

44

Mr G. Walker, Director, Personnel and Establishments Section Mr G. Burns, Assistant Director, Personnel and Establishments Section Australian Taxation Office-Mr R. H. Weber, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Management Resources

and Development Branch Mr P. J. McCann, Finance Officer, Management Resources and Develop-ment Branch Mr M. Carmody, Assistant Commissioner, Legislation Branch No.2

Mr A. Mcinerney, Executive Assistant, Revenue and International Division Mr K. Beddoe, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Other Taxes Branch Mr J. Harwood, Principal Advisory Officer, Other Taxes Branch Australian Bureau of Statistics-

Mr P. G. Howell, Acting First Assistant Statistician, Co-ordination and Man­ agement Division Mr J. W. Maurer, Assistant Statistician, Management Services Branch Mr B. H. Crook, Assistant Statistician, Computer Operations and Software

Branch Mr H. Purcell, Director, Sampling Section Mr M. Griffiths, Director, Labour Force Section Mr R. Leovic, Acting Director, Information Services Section Mr B. Doyle, Director, Evaluation and User Services Section

Mr J. E. Mackay, Acting Director, Finance and General Services Section MrS. J. Ridley, Senior Inspector, Finance and Accounts Sub-section Department of Finance-Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A: Division 670-Administrative Division 674- Taxation Boards of Review DocumentB:

Division 976- Capital Works and Services Division 977-Payments to or for the States and the Northern Terr­ itory Division 978-0ther Services Advance to the Minister for Finance:

Division 670-Administrative Division 674- Taxation Boards of Review Division 962-Payments to or for the States and the Northern Terr-

$

28 862 000 274 000

411 800

196 039 200 2 750 000

522 554 5 174

itory 2 672 261

Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of the Treasury was concluded.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.51 p.m. '

5. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended. Senator Walsh also attended.

45

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

MONDAY 21 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 10.30 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No.6. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.

2. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Australian Taxation Office-

Mr J. J. Daley, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Management Resource and Development Branch Mr R. H. Weber, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Management Resources and Development Branch Mr P. J. McCann, Finance Officer, Management Resources and Development

Branch Mr M. Carmody, Assistant Commissioner, Legislation Branch No.2 Mr A. Mcinerney, Executive Assistant, Revenue and International Division Mr K. Beddoe, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Other Taxes Branch Mr J. Harwood, Principal Advisory Officer, Other Taxes Branch Australian Bureau ofStatistics-

Mr P. G. Howell, Acting First Assistant Statistician, Co-ordination and Management Division Mr J. W. Maurer, Assistant Statistician, Management Services Branch Mr B. H . Crook, Assistant Statistician, Computer Operations and Software

Branch Mr D. C. Leaver, Assistant Statistician, Statistical Services Branch Mr M. Griffiths, Director, Labour Force Section Mr R. Leovic, Acting Director, Information Servjces Section Mr B. Doyle, Director, Evaluation and User Services Section Mr J. E. Mackay, Acting Director, Finance and General Services Section MrS. J. Ridley, Senior Inspector, Finance and Accounts Sub-section Mr G. Sarossy, Acting Assistant Statistician, Manpower Branch Mr J. Wilson, Director, Planning Department of Finance-

Mr b. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Miss D. Connelly, Finance Office, Accounting and Supply Division The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A: Division 677-Australian Taxation Office Division 678-Australian Bureau of Statistics

46

$

239 288 000 106 618 000

Document B: Division Taxation Office

Division 980-Australian Bureau of Statistics Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.

3. DEPARTMENTOFFINANCE

$

3 291 000 4 205 000

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Department of Finance-Mr J. R. Bennett, Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Mr M. N. Woolley, First Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Mr P. L. Lidbetter, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch Mr A. Forner, Director, Accounting Office, Canberra Mr N. F. Levings, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting Operations Branch Mr N. P. McKenna, Director, ADP Operations Mr M. C. Woods, Chief Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch

Mr J. A. Me William, Chief Finance Officer, Rural and Commerce Branch Mr R. Knapp, Chief Finance Officer, Transport and Communications Branch Mr G. R. Potts, Assistant Secretary, Development Branch Mr T. H. Kanaley, Chief Finance Officer, Development Branch

Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office-Mr B. A. Lorenz, Assistant Secretary, Administration Mr R. R. Jackson, Acting Director, Services Superannuation Fund Investment Trust-

Mr W. Gynn, Secretary

The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A: Division 304-Administrative Division 306-Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office Division 308- Superannuation Fund Investment Trust DocumentB:

Division 864-Capital Works and Services Division 865-Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory Advance to the Minister for Finance:

Division 306-Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office Division 852- Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.

$

43 258 000 8 011 000 825 000

1 474 000

35 480 000

17 215

14 476 468

4. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: Appearing: Senator , the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Department of Administrative Services­

Mr H. B. MacDonald, Deputy Secretary Mr D. R. White, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division

47

MrS. Wenger, Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch, Man­ agement Services Division Mr I. D. Gillespie, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division Mr D . M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Division Miss M. P. Lance, M.B.E., Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial

Services Branch, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr H. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Honours Secretariat Mr 1. W. Sleep, Acting Surveyor-General, Survey Office Mr P. 1. Galvin, Director of Property, Property Directorate Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage Division Mr P. A. Nott, First Assistant Secretary, Information Services Division Mr G. A. Low, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing Division Mr T. H. Mooney, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Public Order and Police

Affairs Division Australian Federal Police-Mr A. 1. Watt, M.V.O., Q.P.M., Assistant Commissioner (Services) Mr W. 1. Ireland, Executive Officer Remuneration Tribunai-

Mr A. A. Shakespeare, Secretary Commonwealth Grants Commission­ Mr A. A. Glasson, Secretary Australian Electoral Office-

Mr H. R. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Operations Dr G. Snider, Assistant Secretary, Development Mr D.P. Reynolds, Director, Management Services Department of Finance-

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Miss D. Connelly, Fi.nance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A: Division 130-Administrative Division 132- Remuneration Tribunal Division 138-Australian Federal Police Division 139- Australian Bureau of Criminal Intelligence Division 140-Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Services Division !55-Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Ser-

vices Limited Division 160- Grants Commission Division 161-Australian Electoral Office Division 250- Rent (Defence) Division 252-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings (Defence) Document B:

Division 811-Capital Works and Services Division 813- 0ther Services Advance to the Minister for Finance: Division 130-Administrative

48

$

273 093 700 436 000 89 428 600 633 000 29 559 600

14 942 000 1 417 100 20 839 000 46 488 000

16 551 000

40 577 900 991 100

215 781

Division 138-Australian Federal Police . . . . .

Division 140--'- Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Services Division 150-Furniture and Fittings Division 160-Grants Commission Division 819- 0ther Services

$

684 423 118 501 69 356 5 302

19 232

Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.07 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee, except Senator Gietze1t, attended. Senators Walsh and Colston also attended.

49

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

Estimates Committee D Report to the Senate

51

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981 - 82 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81, for the following departments:

Defence Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Foreign Affairs

2. The Committee considered the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations from the Minister for Finance (Senator Dame Margaret Guilfoyle) and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of

the evidence taken by the Committee are presented for the information of the Senate in connection with its consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981 - 82 and Appropri­ ation Bill (No. 2) 1981-82.

3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee's hearings.

4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates.

( 1) Presentation of information: overviews A problem encountered at times by most Estimates Committees is the spread of costs associated with a particular program either over a number of expenditure items within the estimates of one department or over a number of departments. In either case it is difficult to readily obtain a complete picture of that program and its total cost.

An example of the former was the capital and running costs of the Boeing 707 Special Purpose Aircraft, spread over a number of divisions, sub-divisions and items in the Explanatory Notes of the Department of Defence. In response to a suggestion by Estimates Committee F in April 1980 the Department now compiles in one statement

or information summary all costs associated with the aircraft (see Department of Defence Explanatory Notes, pp. 168- 69), and this has proved most valuable in subsequent examinations. This Committee considers that the use of such information summaries could be extended to other programs where costs are spread over a number

of items. An example of the latter is the involvement of a number of departments in coastal surveillance and associated activities. These departments include Transport, Business and Consumer Affairs, Defence, Immigration and Ethnic Affairs and Health. As the expenditure of these departments is considered by more than one Estimates Com­

mittee, an overview of coastal surveillance becomes difficult to achieve. The Senate and · its Estimates Committees would be considerably assisted if the department with the major involvement in a program such as coastal surveillance was to summarise the involvement of other departments so that a composite picture may be obtained, and the Committee recommends to this effect.

53

(2) Additional documentation The practice has developed of some departments providing documents additional to Explanatory Notes at hearings of Estimates Committees. The 144-page document, 'Bilateral Program 1981-82', prepared for Estimates Committees by the Australian Development Assistance Bureau, is a case in point. The practice is commendable in that additional information is being provided. However, members of Estimates Committees

would be assisted more if additional documentation could be provided prior to actual hearings, to reduce unnecessary questioning.

(3) The DIS CON retender The Committee canvassed the reasons for the decision to call new tenders for the DISCON communications project (Department of Defence). In particular, the Com­ mittee sought information on the proposed percentage of local content in the project and whether the decision to call new tenders would allow opportunity to increase the amount of local content. The Committee was informed that in accord with government policy the Department of Defence would seek to achieve at least a 30 per cent involve­ ment of Australian industry.

The Committee considers that a figure of 50 per cent local content would be more desirable in the case of essential defence equipment, particularly in the computer tech­ nology and allied fields. The Department of Defence is a major purchaser of overseas computer technology. As such, the Government should ensure that the Department is also a major vehicle for the transfer of computer technology 'know-how' and pro­ duction capacity to Australia.

The Committee noted that the Department was not yet in a position to advise the costs involved in the retendering process.

( 4) Civil defence The functions attributed to the Natural Disasters Organisation in the Common­ wealth Government Directory 1981 include 'the development of a core civil defence structure' and to develop plans at the national level 'to mitigate the effects of disasters and to cope with civil defence needs' (p. 131). The Organisation runs the Australian Counter Disaster College.

The Committee was surprised to learn, during questioning on Department of Defence expenditure on civil defence, that not one person out of the sixty-one employed in the Natural Disasters Organisation was employed specifically to plan for defence against nuclear attack. With a number of countries placing increasing emphasis on civil defence programs specifically for defence ·against nuclear attack, the Com­ mittee considers that the Natural Disasters Organisation should devote more of its re­ sources to similar objectives, or seek greater resources.

The Committee considers it would be appropriate for a Senate Committee to exam­ ine Australia's civil defence preparedness in the event of a nuclear attack; methods of improving that preparedness; whether the Natural Disasters Organisation as an organ­ isation concerned mainly with 'natural disasters' is appropriately organised to plan for and cope with the disaster of a nuclear attack; and the extent to which civil defence against nuclear attack is appropriately a Federal, as opposed to a State, concern.

(5) Boeing 707 Special Purpose Aircraft The Committee was informed that the 'agreed rate of charge' for the Boeing 707. Aircraft in the VIP Squadron, when used for VIP purposes, was $3 633 per hour (Department of Defence Explanatory Notes, p. 169).

In additional information supplied subsequent to the hearing the Committee was informed that, since their purchase and up to 30 June 1981, the Boeing 707 aircraft had

54

been used for VIP purposes for 17.3 per cent of their flying time (the remainder being mainly for defence tasks and training). The would be interested to receive an explanation of how the charge of $3633 an hour for VIP purposes was arrived at, and whether it takes into account de­

preciation etc. In seeking a basis of comparison with commercial Boeing 707 hire charges, the Committee was informed that the hourly rate would depend on a wide range of factors, including the configuration of the aircraft, the number and type of passengers, duration of the flight, crew numbers and stopovers.

(6) Sta.ffcuts Evidence was given that staff cutbacks as a result of the Review of Commonwealth Functions and Government policy were causing problems in some areas of the Department of Foreign Affairs. The Department's provisional staff ceiling at 30 June

1982 had been set at 4127 as against 4460 as at 30 June 1981 . One area of the Department's activities affected in particular by staff cuts was the issue of passports, with the Department having fallen behind in the various State capi­ tals, despite the working of considerable overtime. Staff reductions had also affected the London and Washington posts of the Department. Similar evidence was given by

the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, with some delays increasing at the Department's London office as a result of staff cuts. The Committee appreciates that staff reductions are a matter of Government policy, but again expresses its concern that across-the-board cuts may have unintended

deleterious effects. It recommends that the Government consider sympathetically rep­ resentations from departments on staff numbers to ensure that there is no reduction in direct services to the public such as the prompt issue of passports. (7) Scientific advisers

At present, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation has scientific advisers attached to overseas posts at London, Washington and Tokyo, and an officer of the Department of Science and Technology is attached to the OECD, accord­ ing to information supplied by the Department of Foreign Affairs.

The Committee was concerned to learn that the advisers attached to the London and Washington posts are to be withdrawn in accordance with Government decisions following the Review of Commonwealth Functions. The Committee considers the potential benefits to Australian scientific and industrial research and development, in

an age of rapid technological change, of stationing specialist advisers on the spot at key posts would far outweigh the costs of the salaries and accommodation involved, and requests the Government to reconsider its decision to withdraw the two advisers. (8) Aid to bilateral and multilateral associations

The Committee noted that in the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs an amount of $150 000 was proposed as a grant to the Australia- Britain Society to support its secretariat-the same as the amount provided to the Society in 1980- 81. In ad­ ditional information supplied to the Committee it was stated that the Society had been

formed' ... as a rallying point for people wishing to preserve our family relationship with the people of Britain and the essential features of our British heritage'. The Committee also noted that proposed grants to other societies or foundations promoting bilateral ties included $500 000 to the Australia- China Council, $1 365 800

to the Australia-Japan Foundation and $50 000 to the Australia-New Zealand Foundation-all these amounts being the same as, or slightly greater than, 1980-81 grants. By contrast, grants proposed for two organisations promoting multilateral ties- the United Nations Association of Australia and the Australian Institute of International

55

Affairs- were considerably less than those for bilateral organisations and are being further reduced. The proposed grant for the United Nations Association of Australia has been reduced from $25 000 to $20 000-despite representations from the Associ­ ation for an increase, and the proposed grant for the Australian Institute of Inter­

national Affairs has been reduced from $22 500 to $15 000, again despite represen­ tations for an increase. In making these comparisons, the Committee asks whether there has been a change in emphasis in Government policy relating to support for organisations promoting 'bilateral' as against 'multilateral' ties.

(9) Aid projects In its examination of the estimates of the Australian Development Assistance Bureau the Committee was concerned to ensure that projects involving Australian aid were subject to a comprehensive 'lssessment regarding their socio-economic and environmental impact. Examples were raised where well-intended aid had produced

undesirable economic, social and environmental side-effects. The Committee would like to emphasise once more the need to assess each proposed. aid project for its socio-economic or environmental impact before substantial funds are committed on construction or development work. Every attempt should be made to ensure that Australian aid projects do not introduce new problems in endeavouring to solve existing ones.

( 1 0) Late The Committee is concerned at what appears to be a trend towards supplying writ­ ten answers subsequent to a hearing-on occasions, after some considerable delay. With the time constraints under which Estimates Committees operate there is then little time for a Committee to consider those responses and follow them up if necessary.

During the hearings under report some fifty questions were placed 'on notice', i.e. departmental witnesses did not have the information to hand and said they would need to provide written answers subsequent to the hearing. Some of those answers were not provided until shortly before the Committee was due to consider its report, and several are still outstanding.

The Committee strongly urges that all departments endeavour to answer questions at hearings where possible and to provide prompt written responses where an answer can not be immediately provided, so that the importance of Estimates Committee hear­ ings is not downgraded. Estimates Committees must hve the opportunity to hold a further hearing or hearings between the time of receipt of additional information and the time set for reporting, if considered necessary. Late responses effectively prevent this, and thus can inhibit the effective operation of Estimates Committees.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the evidence given by the Minister for Finance and officers of the various departments whose estimates the Committee considered.

15 October 1981

56

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

Estimates Committee D Minutes of Proceedings

57

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.4

TUESDAY 8 SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEE: The Chairman reported Resolutions of the Senate of 26 and 27 August 1981 relating to a change in membership of the Committee and the reference of Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981 - 82 and Departmental

Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980- 81.

3. APPOINTMENT OF DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN: The Chairman announced that, pursuant to Standing Order 36AB, he had appointed Senator Jessop to be Deputy Chairman, to act as Chairman at any time when the Chairman was absent from a meeting.

4. ORDER OF CONSIDERATION OF DEPARTMENTS: The Committee agreed that departments would be considered in the following order: Defence Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

Foreign Affairs (including the Australian Development Assistance Bureau)

5. EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES AND RESEARCH: Discussion took place on possible areas of questioning, secretariat research and preparation of background material.

6. CORRESPONDENCE INVOLVING DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND THE AUDITOR-GENERAL: The Committee agreed that if members wished to canvass any matters arising out of the correspondence between the Committee and the Auditor-General, and evidence provided by the Department of

Foreign Affairs, concerning financial procedures at overseas posts, they should do so through individual questioning.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman) , and Senators Jessop, Mcintosh, Mulvihill and Watson.

59

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

THURSDAY 17 SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate of 27 August 1981, the Committee would consider:

(a) the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982; (b) the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year End­ ing on 30 June 1982; and (c) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance

1980-81

for departments as follows :

Document* Page

A 41

A 60

B 14

A 83

B 19

Departmental estimates to be examined

Di vision No.

230- 243

31 5- 319

873-876 360- 365

902- 904

Department

Defe nce**

Fo reign Affairs

Fo reign Affairs

Immigration and Ethnic Affai rs

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

A mount

$

3 435 668 000 740 511 ()()() 17 396 000

101 474 000

3 04 7 ()()()

• Document A- ' Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'. • Document B- ' Partic ulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in.Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'. • • Excludes items under the control of the Departments of Housi ng and Construction; and Adm inistrative Services ( Divisions 24 5, 246 and 248; and 250 and 252).

Page in document*

9

12

19

13

Division No.

230- 241 315

858 360

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81

Department

Defence

Foreign Affairs

Foreign Affairs

Immigration and Ethnic Affa irs

Amount

$

20 854 463 2 670 74 510

2 970

• Document-'Advance to the Min ister for Fina nce- Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursuant to section 36A of the Audit Act 1901, for the year ended 30 June 1981'.

60

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82-DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Defence, accompanied by the following officers:

Mr G. P. Anderson, Assistant Secretary, Defence Facilities Programme Management Mr G. E. Barlow, Deputy Chief Defence Scientist Mr P. A. Bazley, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements

Air Vice Marshal E. M. Carroll, Chief of Supply Mr P. G. Collins, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Division Mr R. W. Corey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning-Army Colonel R. E. Hagerty, Director, Equipment, Material, Programming

Standardisation-Army Air Commodore A. E. Heggen, Director-General Materiel Definition- Air Force Captain J. M. Kelly, Director, Joint Training and Logistics Mr R. D. Martin, Assistant Director, Natural Disasters Organisation (Policy and

Support) Mr D. M. McAlister, First Assistant Secretary, Programmes and Budgets Mr L. A. McGee, Assistant Secretary, Quality Assurance and Engineering Re-sources Policy

Mr J. McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning- Navy Mr M. J. Murray, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning- Air Force Mr J. A. Nockels, Assistant Secretary, International Policy (PNG and Defence Co­ operation Programmes)

Mr J. S. O'Neill, Assistant Secretary, Budgets and Estimates (General and Co-ordination) Air Commodore T. C. Owen, Director-General Recruiting Dr A. Taloni, Assistant Secretary, Project Co-ordination (Computer Services) Mr M. J. Welch, Acting Assistant Secretary, Project Planning and Evaluation

(Defence Industry and Materiel Policy) Commodore B. L. West, Deputy Chief of Naval Materiel Department of Finance-Mr J. Landrigan, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

$

Divisions 230, 232- 238, 240- 243-Department of Defence 3 435 668 000 Divisions 245- 246, 248, 250, 252- Under control of Departments of Housing and Construction, Administrative Services (Defence aspects) 292 349 000

3 728 017 000 (Document A)

Divisions 230, 232, 233-234, 238, 241-Department of Defence-expen-diture 20 854 463

(Statement of Heads of Expenditure)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Defence, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

61

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Mr D. Volker, Deputy Secretary Mr D. Lander, First Assistant Secretary, Management Mr B. Machin, Senior Advisor, Ethnic Affairs Mr M. Roche, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Mr H. Ramsay, Assistant Secretary, Education Mr I. Simington, Assistant Secretary, Refugees Mr K. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Policy Co-ordination Mr A. Robertson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operations 1 Mr N. Hoffman, Acting Assistant Secretary, Settlement Ms B. Benson, Director, Language Services Mr I. McNeil, Director, Financial Policy and Estimates Mr G. Woodward, Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs Department of

Mr J. Landrigan, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: $

Divisions 360, 364, of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs 101 474 000

(Document A)

Divisions oflmmigration and Ethnic Affairs 3 047 000

(Document B)

Division of !migration and Ethnic Affairs expendi-

ture 2 970 000

(Statement of Heads of Expenditure)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information. 5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Mr P. G. F. Henderson, Secretary Mr R. J. Smith, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Foreign Service Division ·

Mr C. R . Ashwin, First Assistant Secretary, International Organisations, Africa and Middle East Division Mr J. Hoyle, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Cultural Information and Cultural Division Mr R. S. Laurie, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Europe, Americas and New Zealand Division Mr R. Hodgson, Acting Chief of Protocol Mr J. H. Brook, First Assistant Secretary, Legal and Treaties Division Mr B. L. Parkes, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr J. Kelso, Senior Advisor-Nuclear, Nuclear Branch

62

Mr A. G. D . White, Assistant Secretary, Organisation for Economic Co­ operation and Development Mr C. E. McDonald, Assistant Secretary, Papua New Guinea and South Pacific Branch

Mr R. Little, Assistant Secretary, U.N. Economic Agencies Branch Mr T. B. McCarthy, Acting Assistant Secretary, Consular and Passports Branch Mr J. Lyndon, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch Mr K . B. Scott, Acting Assistant Secretary, Technical Services Branch

MrS. D. Brooks, Acting Director, Overseas and General Accounting Section Mr P. A. J. Fitzgerald, Director, Organisation and Resources Planning Section Mr E. Hincksman, Cultural Exchanges Section Mr K. A. Oakman, Acting Director, Property and Office Services Section

Mr N. R. Manton, Acting Director, Personnel Policy Section Mr J. V. Lovegrove, Director, Communications Section Mr W. C. L. Lang, Executive Officer, Australia and New Zealand Foundation Mr P. Fergus, Executive Officer, Training Section

Mr B. Wilson, Executive Officer, Technical Section Mr E. A. Simon, Head, Information and Publications Section Mr E. Dobson, Automatic Data Processing Section Australian Development Assistance Bureau­

Mr J. C. Ingram, Director Dr I. S. Mitchell, First Assistant Secretary, Bilateral Programs Division Mr E. Ingevics, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Policy, Training and Organis­ ations Division

G. L. Lawless, Acting Assistant Secretary, Policy, Development and Co­

ordination Branch Mr J. M. Powell, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Branch Mr G. Blunden, Head, Training Programs Section Mr R. W. D. Harman, Head, Food Aid Unit

Mr F. S. Wojtaszak, Acting Head, Finance Section

Department of Finance-Mr J. Landrigan, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 315-319-Department of Foreign Affairs .

Divisions 873, 875, 876-Department of Forign Affairs

Division 315-Department of Foreign Affairs- Expenditure

$

740 511 000 (Document A) 17 396 000 (Document B)

2 670 000 (Statement of Heads of Expenditure)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

63

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.40 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop, Mulvihill, Watson, Mcintosh and Sibraa.

64

B. F. KILGARIFF

Chairman

/

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

WEDNESDAY 14 OCTOBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 9.45 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of meetings held on 8 Sep­ tember and 17 September 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. Resolved-That the Report, as amended, be adopted.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.00 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Mulvihill, Sibraa and Watson.

65

B. F. KILGARIFF

Chairman

Estimates Committee E Report to the Senate

67

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee E has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for 1981-82 and the Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81 relating to the following departments:

National Development and Energy Employment and Youth Affairs Housing and Construction

2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and Expenditure and has received explanations of them from the Minister for National Development and Energy, the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and the Attorney-General, and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2)

1981 - 82.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates:

(a) The Department of Housing and Construction is responsible for housing programs and construction projects which include capital and maintenance works. Of the total of $1135.6m allocated to the Department, $467 .26m is for work carried out on a contractual basis for other government departments and authorities. Because the Department of Housing and Construction is only act­

ing as the contractor, it is not possible for its officers to be questioned on the purpose, background or need of the items involved. As no justification can be sought from the Department of Housing and Construction, the Committee feels it is desirable that each initiating department should be questioned on the

respective amounts. This could be facilitated by individual departments, in­ cluding an explanation of such expenditure as an appendix to their Explana­ tory Notes. Only a broad statement of this expenditure need be included in the Department of Housing and Construction's Explanatory Notes. (b) The Committee notes the lack of conformity between Departments in the

items listed under 'Incidental and other expenditure'. The Department of National Development and Energy includes under this heading an amount of $128 700 for 'Freight and cartage' which, in all other departments considered, was listed as a separate item. The Committee recommends that such continu­ ing and significant amounts should be listed as separate items of expenditure. (c) The Committee notes that during its investigations of the Bureau of Mineral

Resources, Geology and Geophysics, the possibility of the Bureau duplicating the work of individual State departments arose. Questions were also raised about the storage and availability of information collected by Commonwealth and State governments, and mining companies. Estimates Committee E con­ siders this matter significant, but it cannot pursue the matter in depth, as it has

no power to call for persons, papers and records, nor move from place to place. The Committee therefore recommends to the Senate that the matter ofthe col­ lection, collation, and storage of information relating to the mineral resources,

69

geology, and geophysics of Australia, with particular reference to its cost effec­ tiveness, its role in national development, and public access be referred to the Senate Standing Committee on National Resources. (d) At the time the Department of Housing and Construction's Explanatory

Notes were prepared, several departments had failed to finalise the 'details of the specific works to be undertaken in 1981 - 82' (Division 352: Repairs and Maintenance). The Committee considers that such a situation is unsatisfac­ tory, and that annual Appropriation Bills should be submitted to the Parlia­ ment for approval only when complete information is available regarding the purpose of particular items of expenditure. (e) The Report of the Auditor-General was not available till 24 September 198 1,

more than one week after Estimates Committees had commenced. As in pre­ vious years when this has occurred (see Estimates Committee C's Report to the Senate, October 1976 and 1977) Committees have commented on the need to have the report available for a reasonable time prior to the examination of De­ partmental Estimates. The Committee therefore recommends that the hear­ ings of Estimates Committees and the tabling of the Report be scheduled to allow Committee perusal of the Report prior to the examination of the Depart­ mental Estimates.

4. In the past the Committee has provided an opportunity for a general question­ ing of the Departmental Estimates. At future meetings it hopes that, as well as the gen­ eral inquiry, detailed examinations of particular areas will be possible. To do this the Committee would need to deliberate from time to time throughout the year. The Com­ mittee therefore awaits with interest the deliberations of the Senate Standing Orders Committee in relation to the future role of Estimates Committees.

5. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Minis­ ters and the officers.

70

A.M. THOMAS Chairman

Estimates Committee E Minutes of Proceedings

71

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.4

THURSDAY 10SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.00 p.m. in Committee Room No.5.

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEE: The Secretary to the Com­ mittee announced the following changes in membership:

Former Senator the Honourable J. M. Wheeldon had ceased to be a member of the Committee as his term as a Senator had expired on 31 June 1981. Senators Scott and Young had been discharged from further attendance upon the Committee on 26 August 1981.

Senators Childs, Crichton-Browne and Hill had been appointed members of the Committee on 26 August 1981.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Thomas was nominated by Senator Crichton-Browne, seconded by Senator Hill. And there being no further nominations, Senator Thomas thereupon took the Chair.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPENDI­ TURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81: The Chairman reported that the Senate had, on 27 August 1981, agreed to the follow­ ing Resolutions:

( 1) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982 and Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Re­ spect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982 be referred herewith to Estimates Committees for examination and report. ·

(2) That Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1981 be referred to Estimates Committees for examination and report prior to its consideration in Committee of the Whole. (3) That the Committees consider Proposed Expenditure and Departmental

Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance in the Estimates Committee groupings agreed to by the Resolution of the Senate on 2 April 1981. ( 4) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Thursday 15 October 1981.

The Estimates and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance in Respect of the following departments had therefore to be considered by the Committee: National Development and Energy

Employment and Youth Affairs Housing and Construction

73

5. MANNER OF EXAMINING THE ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to examine the Estimates in the following order: Employment and Youth Affairs (commencing at 12 noon, Thursday 17 September)

Housing and Construction (on Thursday afternoon, 17 September, subject to the completion of consideration of Employment andY outh Affairs) National Development and Energy (from 8 p.m., Thursday 17 September) Housing and Construction ( 10 a.m., Friday 18 September, if not completed)

6. PROCEDURES TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman outlined the procedures he intended to follow for the duration of the Committee's meetings.

7. SPECIAL AREAS OF INTEREST: The Committee agreed that if particular areas of expenditure warranted close and detailed examination, the Secretariat should inform the Committee. Arrangements could then be made to have the appropriate departmen­ tal officers in attendance at the meetings.

8. AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT: The Chairman noted that in previous years many questions arose in Estimates Committees from matters raised in the Auditor­ General's Report. The Chairman asked the Secretary to determine when the Auditor­ General's Report for 1980-81 would be tabled (Secretary's note: Expected to be tabled 22 September 1981) .

9. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.20 p.m.

10. ATTENDANCE: The following members were present at the meeting: Senator Thomas (Chairman), Senator Crichton-Browne, Senator Childs, Senator Elstob, Senator Hill and Senator Robertson (6).

74

A.M. THOMAS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

THURSDAY 17 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.07 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Thomas) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory statement. Pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate on 27 August 1981, the Committee would consider the following departmental estimates:

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 92 430- 436 National Development and Energy 94 932 000

B 20 924-925 National Development and Energy 131 798 000

A 53 286 Employment and Youth Affairs 334 998 000

B 13 857 Employment and Youth Affairs 250 000

A 79 350- 358 Housing and Construction 308 264 000

A 46 245 Buildings and Works (Defence) 148 695 000

A 46 246 Repairs and Maintenance (Defence) 76 435 000

A 46 248 Housing for Servicemen-Advances to States

(Defence) 4180000

B 17 895-897 Housing and Construction 233 672 000

*Document A- 'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'. *Document B- 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'; and Expendi­ ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance:

*Page in Division

document No. Department Amount

$

14 430-436 National Development and Energy 234 11 2

II 286 Employment and Youth Affairs 390 727

19 871 Housing and Construction 716 892

*Document-'Advance to the Minister for Finance- Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursuant to section 36A of the Audit Actl901, for the year ended 30 June 1981 '.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81 - DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND YOUTH AFFAIRS Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy and Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs;

accompanied by the following officers: Department of Employment and Youth A./fairs­ Mr P.M. Jenkins, Deputy Secretary Mr N. W. F. Fisher, Director, Bureau of Labour Market Research

75

Mr J. W. Spencer, First Assistant Secretary, Youth Affairs and Projects Division Mr W. R. Clark, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr N.J. Clifford, General Manager, CES Operations Division Mr P. L. Mason, Acting General Manager, CES Planning and ADP Division Mr P. Monie, Acting General Manager, CES Programmes Division Mr B. MacDonald, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Management Services

Division Mr A. Abrahart, Assistant Secretary, Youth Programmes Branch, Manpower Policy and Programmes Division Mr R. Marshman, Assistant Secretary, Industry Training Services Branch,

Manpower Policy and Programmes Division Mr J. Ray, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Skills Branch, Manpower Policy and Programmes Division Department of Finance-

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Division 286-Department of Employment andY outh Affairs (Document A) Division 857-Department of Employment andY outh Affairs (Document B)

Division 286-Department of Employment and Youth Affairs (Advance to the Minister for Finance)

The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs. The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981 - 82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81, sub­ ject to an undertaking by the Minister to supply additional information to the

Committee.

4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINIS­ TER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81 - DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOP­ MENT AND ENERGY Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy and Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of National Development and Energy­ Mr A. J. Woods, Secretary Mr Mr P. Ryan, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr M.S. Farrell, Deputy Director, National Energy Office Mr W. H. Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. Hopkins, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and Devel-

opment Division Mr J . C . Starkey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Oil and Gas Division Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water and Development Division Mr G. C. Gorrie, Assistant Secretary, Energy Conservation Branch, Energy

Policy Division Mr M. N. Lawrence, Assistant Secretary, Oil Industry Operations Branch, Energy Research and Development Division Mr A. A. Garran, Principal Executive Officer, Oil Industry Policy Branch Mr R. Ryan, Assistant Director, Australian Safeguards Office

76

Mr C. Veenstra, Assistant Director, Division of National Mapping Mr L. W. Williams, Assistant Director, Bureau of Mineral Resources Australian Atomic Energy Commission-Mr R. Smith, Deputy Director, Research

Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary (Finance) The Pipeline Authority-Mr T. R. Baker, Executive Member Mr F. W. Noble, Finance Manager Department of Finance-

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 430- 436-Department of National Development and Energy (Docu­ ment A)

The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of National Development and Energy. Division 431 being considered by the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.33 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Childs, Crichton-Browne, E1stob, Hill, Robertson and Thomas (6). Senator McLaren was also in attendance.

77

A.M. THOMAS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

FRIDAY 18 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.33 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Thomas) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION RESUMED OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81-DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENERGY Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of National Development and Energy­ Mr P. Ryan, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr M.S. Farrell, Deputy Director, National Energy Office Mr W. H. Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. Hopkins, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and Devel-

opment Division Mr J. C. Starkey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Oil and Gas Division Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water and Development Division Mr G. C. Gorrie, Assistant Secretary, Energy Conservation Branch, Energy

Policy Division Mr M. N. Lawrence, Assistant Secretary, Oil Industry Operations Branch, Energy Research and Development Division Mr A. A. Garran, Principal Executive Officer, Oil Industry Policy Branch Mr R. Ryan, Assistant Director, Australian Safeguards Office Mr C. Veenstra, Assistant Director, Division of National Mapping Mr L. W. Williams, Assistant Director, Bureau of Mineral Resources Australian Atomic Energy Commission­

OrR. Smith, Deputy Director, Research Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary (Finance) The Pipeline Authority-Mr T. R. Baker, Executive Member

Mr F. W. Noble, Finance Manager Department of Finance-Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The following Divisions were further considered:

Divisions 431-436-Department of National Development and Energy (Docu­ ment A) Divisions 924 and 925 - Department of National Development and Energy (Docu­ ment B) Divisions 431-436-Department of National Development and Energy (Advance

to the Minister for Finance)

78

The meeting concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81, sub­ ject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81 - DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Housing and Construction­ Mr K. J. Rodda, Deputy Secretary

Mr M. B. Roger, Director, Housing Policy Mr J. H. Gunn, Assistant Secretary (Works) Mr K. F. Culph, Acting Assistant Secretary (Finance) MrS. J. Wookey, Assistant Secretary-Systems and ADP Department of Finance-

Mr D . J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 350-358-Department of Housing and Construction (Document A) Divisions 895-897-Department of Housing and Construction (Document B)

Division 871-Department of Housing and Construction (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction. The meeting concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure

1981 - 82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81, sub­ ject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee. The Minister and departmental officers and members of the press and public withdrew.

4. DELIBERATIVE MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session and considered the content of its Report.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 3.30 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Childs, Crichton-Browne, Hill, Robertson and Thomas ( 5).

79

A.M. THOMAS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.7

TUESDAY, 13 OCTOBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 11.32 a.m. The Chair­ man (Senator Thomas) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings on 10, 17 and 18 September 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate which had been circulated to members of the Committee. Resolved: That the Report be adopted.

4. CIRCULATION OF WRITTEN REPLIES: Written replies from the following departments were circulated: National Development and Energy Employment and Youth Affairs

Housing and Construction

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.40 a.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Thomas (Chairman), Senators Childs, Crichton-Browne and Robertson ( 4).

80

A.M. THOMAS Chairman

Estimates Committee F Report to the Senate

81

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for 1981-82 relating to the following departments: Science and Technology Capital Territory

Transport

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received explanations from the Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Senator Messner) and the Minister for Social Security (Senator Chaney), and officers of the departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and

Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81.

3. Further written replies to questions are awaited and on receipt will be dis­ tributed to members of the Committee and where appropriate to other Senators who participated in the Committees's examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee's hearings.

4. In conclusion, the Committee wishes to record its appreciation for the expla­ nations provided by the Ministers and officers of the various departments who assisted the Committee.

83

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

Estimates Committee F Minutes of Proceedings

85

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.4

THURSDAY 10 SEPTEMBER 1981

l. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.05 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. APPOINTMENT AND MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 26 August 1981 recording membership and the Com­ mittee membership was: Senators Coates, Jones, Georges, MacGibbon, Withers and Townley.

3. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolution of the Senate of 27 August 1981 relating to the referral to Estimates Committees of the Par­ ticulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Year Ending on 30 June 1982 and Expendi­ ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 was reported.

4. OPERATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE: Discussion ensued on the use which the Committee would make of research assistance, and future meetings of the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting adjourned at 6.15 p.m. till Thursday 17 Sep­ tember 1981.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Coates, Georges, Jones and Townley ( 4).

87

M.TOWNLEY Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

THURSDAY 17 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 - 82-DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer accompanied by the following officers:

Depart merit of Science and Technology-Mr C. A. Webster, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. Tobias, First Assistant Secretary, Productivity Development Division Mr R. Goleby, Acting Executive Officer, Australian Industrial Research and

Development Incentives Board Mr R. Moncur, Acting Assistant Secretary, Grants and Projects Branch Mr C. McCue, Director, Antarctic Division Mr P. Gard, Finance Officer, Antarctic Division Dr J.D. Bell, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology Policy Branch Ms L. Tacy, Acting Assistant Secretary, Human Relations Branch Mr E. T. Roots, Acting Director, Finance and Supply Mr J. A. Wharton, Acting Executive Officer (Budget) Ms J. Stone, Acting Budget Officer Mr R. C. Norris, Australian Government Analyst Mr G. Rankin, Acting Executive, Analytic Services Branch Mr R. C. Lloyd, Director,Administration and Finance, Space Projects Branch Mr D. J. Gray, Station Director, Australian Landsat Station Mr G. Sherman, Acting Assistant Director, Australian Landsat Station Dr C. Clark, Acting Director, Personnel and Services Patents, Trade Marks and Designs Office-

Mr G. J. Baker, Acting Senior Assistant Commissioner (Business Management) Mr W. J. Peart, Director (Resource Management) Mr G. W. Bullivant, Assistant Director (Finance and General Services) Australian Institute of Marine Science-

Or J. S. Bunt, Director Anglo-Australian Observatory-Mr D. W. Cunliffe, Executive Officer Dr D. A. Allen, Senior Research Scientist

88

Commonwealth Bureau of Meteorology­ Or 1. Zillman, Director Mr W. K. Henderson, Acting Assistant Director, Management Mr G. Parker, Executive Officer, Finance and Supply National Standards Commission­

Mr T. J. Petry, Executive Director Mr H. Wray, Finance Officer Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation­ Or W. 1. MeG. Tegart, Member of Executive

Dr J. R. Philip, Director, Institute of Physical Sciences Mr I. E. Newnham, Director, Institute of Energy and Earth Resources Dr J. B. Allen, Senior Assistant Secretary, Research Policy and Development Mr H. C. Crozier, Secretary, Finance and Administration Mr I. L. Farrar, Assistant Secretary (Budget)

Mr W. P. Dominguez, Chief Budget Officer Mr R. A. Riches, Senior Finance Officer Department of Finance-Mr R. Barlin, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 540-554-Department of Science and Technology (Document A) Divisions 948- 950-Department of Science and Technology (Document B) Division 540-Department of Science and Technology (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure from the De­

partment of Science and Technology subject to an undertaking by the Minister to pro­ vide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82-DEPARTMENT OF CAPITAL TERRITORY Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. 1. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer, and Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Secur­

ity, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Capital Territory-Mr E. H. McGrath, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr W. E. Lawrence, First Assistant Secretary, Legislation and Policy Co­

ordination Division Mr J. H. Marshall, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Technical Services Division Mr R. J . Corrigan, First Assistant Secretary, Lands Division

Mr L. L. Gillespie, City Manager Mr D. M . Lalor, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Supply Branch Mr B. C. Rope, Assistant Secretary, Housing Branch Mr R. J. Donnellan, Assistant Secretary, Recreation and Tourism Branch

Mr R. O'Connell, Assistant Secretary, Systems Branch Mr J. A. Turner, Assistant Secretary, Public Transit Branch Mr N. Whiffen, Executive Director, Canberra Development Board Mr R. Jackson, Assistant Executive Director, Canberra Development Board

Mr I. F . McKendry, Clerk, Australian Capital Territory House of Assembly Mr C. S. Hamilton, Director, Programs and Budget Section

89

Mr D. Barron, City Librarian

Department of Finance-Mr R. Barlin, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 210 to 215-Capital Territory (Document A) Divisions 834 and 835-Capital Territory (Document B) Division 210-Capital Territory (Advance to the Minister for Finance)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the De­ partment of Capital Territory subject to an undertaking by the Ministers to provide ad­ ditional information to the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82-DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers:

Department ofTransport-Mr K. H. Toakley, First Assistant Secretary, Finance and Commercial Division Mr P. Flint, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch Mr H. B. O'Keefe, First Assistant Secretary, Airways Operations Division Mr R. Whitecross, Assistant Secretary, Operations Services Branch Mr B. Weeden, First Assistant Secretary, Air Transport Policy Division Mr P. B. Eccles, First Assistant Secretary, Coastal Services Division Mr I. Leslie, First Assistant Secretary, Flying Operations and Airworthiness Mr G. K. R. Reid, First Assistant Secretary, Ground Facilities Division Mr I. Grigor, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Land Transport Policy Division Mr R. H. J. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Division MrS. P. Smith, First Assistant Secretary, Sea Transport Policy Division Mr J. S. Latham, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Roads Division Mr A. F. Rainbird, First Assistant Secretary, International Policy Division Mr W. P. Egan, Director, Bureau of Transport Economics Mr G. J. Harper, Acting Director, Budget Section, Finance Branch Mr L. Hutchins, Budget Officer, Australian National Railways Mr R. Groat, Assistant Secretary, Major Projects

Department of Finance-Mr R. Barlin, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 655 to 662-Transport (Document A) Divisions 969 to 971 - Transport (Document B) Divisions 655 and 959- Transport (Advance to the Minister for Finance)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure from the De­ partment of Transport subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.26 p.m.

90

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were in attendance: Senator Townley (Chairman) and Senators Coates, Jones, Georges and Withers. Senator McLaren wa,s also in attendance.

91

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

TUESDAY 13 OCTOBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.05 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 10 and 17 September 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. Resolved: That the Report be adopted.

4. OPERATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE: Discussion ensued on the future use which the Committee would make of research assistance and the discussion of the Esti­ mates in Committee ofthe Whole.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting adjourned at 6.15 p.m. till a time and date to be fixed.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Coates, Jones, Townley and Withers ( 4).

92

M.TOWNLEY Chairman

Estimates Committee G Report to the Senate

93

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee G has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for the Year 1981-82 and the Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 for the following departments:

Health Social Security Veterans' Affairs Aboriginal Affairs

2. The Committee considered the Estimates and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance, and received explanations from the Minister for Social Security (Senator Chaney), the Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Senator Messner) and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator Baume) and officers of the various

departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1981-82.

3. During the hearing of evidence undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee's hearings.

4. The Committee noted that there was reference to a three per cent reduction in administrative items in accordance with Government policy in the Explanatory Notes of three of the four departments which it examined. Because of the way it was pre­ sented, the Committee initially wrongly assumed that this reduction applied to the Esti­

mates after their submission to the Department of Finance. Oral explanations only par­ tially clarified the application of the reduction. It was not until the Committee sighted the relevant Department of Finance Estimates memorandum that it became clear what was intended by the Government. Departments and authorities were to achieve a three

per cent reduction in real terms in 'specified categories of (non-defence) non-wage and salary administrative expenditures'.

5. To facilitate the work of Senate Estimates Committees in future, the Com­ mittee believes that any such direction should be suitably explained in the Explanatory Notes. In addition, it would be of use to the Committees if they were to receive copies of the Estimates Memoranda issued by the Department of Finance.

6. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Minis­ ters and the officers.

14 October 1981

95

N. T. BONNER Chairman

Estimates Committee G Minutes of Proceedings

97

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.5

WEDNESDAY 26 AUGUST 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.10 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the Chair.

2. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate of 27 August 1981 referring to the Committee Par­ ticulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1981-82 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81 for the following departments:

Health Social Security Veterans' Affairs Aboriginal Affairs

3. EXAMINATION OF ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed that the commit­ ments and wishes of the three Ministers appearing before the Committee should be taken into account in finalising the order in which the Estimates of the departments were to be examined.

4. RESEARCH FOR COMMITTEE: The Committee discussed the nature of the research to be done by the secretariat.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.25 a.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Bonner, Coleman, Teague and Walters.

99

N. T. BONNER Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met at 8 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory state­ ment and reported to the Committee that the Senate had referred, on 27 August 1981, the Estimates for 1981-82 for certain departments, and certain Departmental Expen­ diture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for 1980- 81, to the Committee for exa,mination and report.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDI­ TURE 1981 -82 AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81: Pursuant to the Order of the Senate, the Committee commenced consideration of the Particulars of

Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982, the Particu­ lars for Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982 and the Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 relating to the following:

Departmental Estimates to be examined (Minister: Senator the Hon. F . M. Chaney)

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 67 325-329 Health 471 875 000

B 15 881-883 Health 28 389 000

A 112 590-591 Social Security 414 347 000

B 23 955-956 Social Security 67 802 000

A 125 690-693 Veterans' Affairs 530 139 000

B 26 984-987 Veterans ' Affairs 64 953 000

A 11 120-125 Aboriginal Affairs 130 973 000

B 6 804-805 Aboriginal Affairs 32 192 000

* Document A- ' Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'. * Document B- 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982'.

100

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81

*Page in Division document No. Department Amount

12 327

16 590

17 692

5 120

18 813

Health Social Security Veterans' Affairs Aboriginal Affairs

Aboriginal Affairs

$

5 991 947 2 105 418 95 7 177 39 018

584 300

• Document- ' Advance to the Minister for Fina nce- Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursua nt to section 36A of the Audit A ct !90 I, for the year ended 30 June 1981 '.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81 Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and

Acting Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Hea/th-Mr C. A. Nettle, Deputy Director-General Dr D. B. Travers, Acting Deputy Director-General

Mr L. W. Lane, First Assistant Director-General, Management Services Division Mr J. S. McCauley, First Assistant Director-General, Health Services Division Mr R. H. Searle, First Assistant Director-General, Quarantine Division Mr M. Carroll, First Assistant Director-General, Insurance, Hospitals and

Nursing Homes Division Mr G. M. James, Acting First Assistant Director-General, National Health and Medical Research Council Division Dr W. A. Langsford, First Assistant Director-General, Public Health Division

Dr C. Selby Smith, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Benefits Division Dr K. W. Edmondson, First Assistant Director-General, Therapeutics Division Mr P. T. Pflaum, First Assistant Director-General, Policy and Planning ·

Mr J. W. Shaw, Assistant Director-General, Finance, Pharmacy Earnings and Projects Branch Mr G. F. Bunfield, Director, Finance Dr K. M. Doust, Chairman, Capital Territory Health Commission Mr R. A. Foskett, First Assistant Commissioner, Policy, Planning and Adminis­

tration, Capital Territory Health Commission Mr G . R. Thorn, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Finance, Capital Territory Health Commission Department of Finance-

Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 325- 329 and 881 - 883, Department of Health and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance. Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and

Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance: Divisions 325-329-Health $471 875 000 (Document A)

101

Divisions 881-883-Health $28 389 000 (Document B) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance $5 991 947

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Ad­ vance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 FOR THE DE­ PARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDI­ TURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81

Appearing: Senator the Honourable A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Veterans' A.ffairs-Mr G. T. Miller, Acting Deputy Chairman

. Management Services Division-Mr J. A. Peck, Acting First Assistant Commissioner Mr G. A. Woodward, Assistant Commissioner (Finance) Medical Division-

Or M. M. Kehoe, Acting Chief Director (Medical Services) Treatment Services Division-Mr N. T. Trabinger, First Assistant Commissioner Mr R E . O'Shannassy, Assistant Commission (Treatment)

Benefits and Legislation Division-Mr J. W. Muir, First Assistant Commissioner Mr R. J. Hill, Assistant Commissioner (Benefits) Special Studies Group-

Mr E. D. Letts, First Assistant Secretary

Defence Service Homes Corporation­ Mr A. J. Selleck, General Manager Mr J. Reynolds, Director (Finance Management)

Department of Finance-Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 690-693 and 984- 987, Department of Veterans' Affairs and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance. Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance were considered as follows :

Divisions 690-693- Veterans' Affairs $530 139 000 (Document A) Divisions 984-987- Veterans' Affairs $64 953 000 (Document B) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Veterans' Affairs $957 177

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Ad­ vance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.17 a.m.

102

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman), and Senators Coleman, Giles, Grimes and Teague.

103

N. T. BONNER Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.7

FRIDAY 25 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: Committee· met at 9.35 a.m.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 FOR THE DE­ PARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDI­ TURE UNOE.R THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980-81 Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers:

, Department of Social Security­ Mr A. J. Ayers, DireCtor-General br S. Sax, Head, Social Welfare Policy Secretariat Mr J. T. O'Connor, Deputy Director-General Mr J. M. Mahoney, First Assistant (Benefits)

Mr V. J. Rogers, Acting First Assistant Director-General (Development) MrS. F.Skehill, First Assistant Director-General (Legislation and Review) Mr L. Portley, Acting First Assistant Director-General (Management) MrsM. Y. Coleman, Director, Office of Child Care ' Mr D. R . Scott, Acting First Assistant Director-General (Rehabilitation and

Subsidies) Mr J.D. Hall, first Director-General (Social Welfare) Mr K. T. Kimball, First Assistant Director-General (Systems and Operations) Mr C. Calvert, Assistant Director-General (Finance)

Mr J. B. Lleonart, Assistant Director-General (Secretariat and Information) Mr D. I. Stanton, Assistant Director-General (Research and Statistics) Department of Finance-Mr I. Butt, Senior Finance Officer (Accounting and Supply Division) The Chairman called on Divisions 590-591 and 955 - 956 Department of Social Security and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance were considered as follows : Divisions 590- 591-Social Security $414 347 000 (Document A) Divisions 955- 956 - Social Security $67 802 000 (Document B)

Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance $2 105 418

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Ad­ vance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981-82 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1980- 81

104

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Aboriginal A./fairs­ Mr J . C. Taylor, Secretary

Mr C. N. Perkins, Special Adviser Mr G. M. Brownbill, First Assistant Secretary, Development Division Mr N.J. L. Jansz, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr L.A. J. Malone, First Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination Division

Mr R. A. Jenkins, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr R. Toohey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Program Branch Mr W. Miller, Director, Program Development Section Mr M. Baker, Acting Assistant Director, Budget Co-ordination

Mr E. P. Wilmot, Principal, Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies Department of Finance-Mr I. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 120-125 and 804-805, Department of Aboriginal

Affairs and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance. Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance were considered as follows: Divisions 120-125- Aboriginal Affairs $130 973 000 (Document A)

Divisions 804-805- Aboriginal Affairs $32 192 000 (Document B) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance $39 018 (Division 120) $584 300 (Division 813) Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Ad­ vance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister

to provide replies to a number of questions.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.21 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman), and Senators Giles and Grimes.

105

N . T . BONNER Chairman

. THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.8

THURSDAY 15 OCTOBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 10.20 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 3, Parliament House, Canberra.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 26 August 1981, 22 September 1981 and 25 September 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT: The Chairman presented his draft Report to the Committee. Resolved: That the Report be agreed to.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner (Chairman), Coleman, Giles, Teague and Walters.

106

N. T. BONNER Chairman

Estimates Committee H Report to the Senate

107

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee H has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 27 August 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates of Expenditure for the Year Ending 30 June 1982 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981, relating to the following departments:

Primary Industry Industry and Commerce Trade and Resources

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of Expenditure and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations of them from the Minister for Social Security, the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in con­

nection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1981-82 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1981-82. Further written explanations furnished by departments will be presented separately and printed in the Hansard record.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters:

Explanatory Notes In the past, Estimates Committees have found cause to criticise the form and con­ tent of the Explanatory Notes. The Department of Primary Industry has not been free from such criticism. On this occasion, however, the Committee recognises a consider­ able improvement in the standard of the Department's Explanatory Notes.

Department of Trade and Resources-Division 64 2. 2.01-Travelling and subsistence The Explanatory Notes describe an increase in expenditure under this item, and partially justify the increase on the basis of the proposed establishment of a new Trade Commissioner post. Questioning (Hansard, 12 October 1981, page 663) revealed that at least one post had been closed during the year, yet the Notes do not record a re­

duction in recurring expenditure resulting from the closure. It is the Committee's view that as much as increased levels of activity are used to justify increased expenditure, reduced levels of activity should equally be recorded as a reduction in expenditure. Not to do so renders the Notes misleading.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Ministers and the officers of the Departments concerned.

15 October 1981

109

D. B. SCOTT Acting Chairman

Estimates Committee H Minutes of Proceedings

Ill

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.4

TUESDAY 8 SEPTEMBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.00 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 7.

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate No. 51, dated 26 August 1981, relating to the appointment of Senators Foreman and Scott (in the places of Senators McAuliffe and Neal who retired from the Senate on 30 June 1981 ) .

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1981 : The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate No. 52 of 27 August 1981 relating to the referral of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of theY ear End­ ing on 30 June 1982, the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the

Year Ending on 30 June 1982 and the Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.15 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senator Archer (Chairman), Senators Lajovic, Primmer and Scott.

113

D. B. SCOTT Acting Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.5

TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.00 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 1. The Chairman (Senator Archer) took the Chair.

2. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman made a statement re­ lating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of Particu­ lars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1982-Document A; Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year

Ending on )0 June 1982-Document B; and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year Ended 30 June 1981 for the departments as indicated:

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 96 490- 497 Primary Industry 108 673 000

B 22 932- 933 Primary Industry 22 320 000

A 89 380- 388 Industry and Commerce 125 574 000

B 20 917 Industry and Commerce 25110000

A 115 640- 646 Trade and Resources 356 371 000

B 24 963 Trade and Resources I 020 000

*Document A- 'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30June 1982'. *Document 8- 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of theY ear Ending on 30 June 1982'.

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81

• Page in Division document No. Department Amount

14 13

494 Primary Industry 380- 525 Industry and Commerce

$

102 661 534 322

*Document- 'Advance to the Minister for Finance-Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto, pursuant to section 36A of the Audit Actl90l, for the Year Ended 30June 1981 '.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982 FOR THE DE­ PARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY Appearing: Senator the Hon. Frederick Chaney, Minister for Social Security represent­ ing the Minister for Primary Industry, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Primary1ndustry­ Mr L. P. Duthie, Secretary Mr P. H . Langhorne, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr D. D. R. Pearson, Director, Management Services Branch Mr G. Mackey, First Assistant Secretary, Meat Division

114

Mr N.J. Thompson, Assistant Secretary, Meat Division Mr G. E. Pettit, Assistant Secretary, Dairy Division Mr J. C. Nicholls, Assistant Secretary, Dairy Division Mr N.D. Honan, First Assistant Secretary, Field Crops Division Mr M. J. Blarney, First Assistant Secretary, Sugar and Horticultural Crops

Division Mr T. B. Curtin, Assistant Secretary, Fisheries Division Mr W. W. Leitch, Administrative Officer, Fisheries Division Mr F. H. M. Collins, First Assistant Secretary, Wool Division

Mr T. J. Kelly, First Assistant Secretary, Development Division Mr D. D. Hussey, First Assistant Secretary, Forestry, Food and Agricultural Services Division Mr G. M. Young, Principal Executive Officer, Forestry, Food and Agricultural

Services Division Mr R. W. Gee, Director, Bureau of Animal Health Mr J. A. Hart, Senior Assistant Director, Bureau of Animal Health Mr J. Landos, Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Animal Health Mr D. J. Woodbury, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Agricultural

Economics Department of Finance-Mr A. Chapman, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82 Divisions 490-497 Department of Primary Industry (Document A) Divisions 932- 933 Department of Primary Industry (Document B) Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81

Division 494 Department of Primary Industry The Committee concluded its considerations of the Particulars of Proposed Expendi­ ture, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Depart­ ment of Primary Industry.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.14 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Archer (Chairman), Senators Foreman, Lajovic, Primmer, Scott and Walsh. Senator Mclaren also attended.

115

D. B. SCOTT Acting Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.6

MONDAY 12 OCTOBER 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 2.00 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 1. The Acting Chairman (Senator the Hon. Douglas Scott) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982 FOR THE DE­ PARTMENT OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs represent­ ing the Minister for Industry and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Industry and Commerce­ Mr F. N. Bennett, Deputy Secretary Mr L. Wrigley, Assistant Controller, Munitions Supply Division Dr M. Fitzpatrick, Deputy Director, Bureau of Industry Economics Mr P. G . Gifford, First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr R. Coleman, Assistant Controller, Aircraft, Guided Weapons & Electronics

Supply Division Mr B. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Commerce & Small Business Branch, Ter­ tiary Industry Division Mr L. Stroud, Assistant Secretary, Consultation and Liaison Branch, Policy No.

1 Division Mr G. Collopy, Assistant Secretary, Electrical and Metal Products Branch Mr A. G . Johnson, Assistant Secretary, Marketing Branch Mr K. McKnown, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Property Branch, Manage­

ment Division Mr M. Duke, Acting Director, Programs & Estimates Section, Management Division Mr J. Comerford, Principal Executive Officer (Finance), Munitions Supply

Division Mr R. J. Kinsella, Principal Executive Officer (Administration), Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division

Department of Finance-Mr J. A. Landrigan, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Acting Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82

Divisions 380-388 Department oflndustry and Commerce (Document A) Division 917 Department oflndustry and Commerce (Document B)

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1980-81 Division 380 Department of Industry and Commerce Division 522 Department of Industry and Commerce Division 525 Department of Industry and Commerce

116

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Industry and Commerce.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982 FOR THE DEPART­ MENT OF TRADE AND RESOURCES Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs represent­ ing the Minister for Trade and Resources, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Trade and Resources-Mr K. Baker, Assistant Secretary, Commodities No.1 Division Mr K. Harley, Acting Assistant Secretary, Commodities No. 1 Division Mr K. O'Brien, Acting Assistant Secretary, Commodities No. 1 Division

Mr J. Brooks, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Uranium Division Mr G. Hall, Assistant Secretary, Trade Promotion and Services Division Mr D. Gastin, Assistant Secretary, Economic and Technical Services Branch, Economic and Policy Division

Mr P. Webb, Acting Assistant Secretary, Trade Policy Division Mr G. Thomson, Assistant Secretary, Trade Policy Division Mr M. Farrow, Assistant Secretary, Trade Policy Division Mr G. L. V. Hooton, First Assistant Secretary, Australian Uranium Export

Office Mr R. A. Daley, Chairman, Export Development Grants Board Mr R. T. Anderson, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Management and Over­ seas Division

Mr S. J . Ryan, Acting Assistant Secretary, Personnel, Finance and Services Branch, Management and Overseas Division Mr M. C. Bridges, Chief Finance Officer, Joint Coal Board Mr L. O'Brien, Secretary, Joint Coal Board Mr J. Gardiner, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Trade Relations and Markets

Division Mr J. Wilcox, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Commodities No.2 Division Mr J. Cahill, Acting Director, Finance and Accounts Section, Management and Overseas Division Department of Finance-

Mr J. A. Landrigan, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Acting Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1981-82 Divisions 640- 646 Department of Trade and Resources (Document A)

Division 963 Department of Trade and Resources (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Trade and Resources.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.36 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Scott (Acting Chairman), Senators Foreman, La jovic, Primmer and Walsh.

117

D. B. SCOTT A cting Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No.7

WEDNESDAY 14 OCTOBER 1981

I. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Room 3. The Acting Chairman (Senator the Hon. Douglas Scott) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings of meetings held on 8 September, 22 September and 12 October 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. The draft was adopted without amendment.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.20 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Scott (Acting Chairman) , Senators Foreman, Primmer and Walsh.

118

D . B. SCOTT Acting Chairman