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Estimates - Senate Committees - Reports, together with Hansard record of proceedings - Particulars of Proposed Expenditure - Year - 1972-73 - Estimates Committee A


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THE PARLIAMENT OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA

1972-Parliamentary Paper No. 221

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D and E

REPORTS TO THE SENATE

ON

DEPARTMENTAL ESTIMATES 1972-73

Brought up and ordered

to be printed 24 and 25 October 1972

COMIMONWEALTII GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPFIOE CANBEIR!RA: 1973 1c 1

Printed by Authority by the Government Printer of Australia

RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE

RESOLUTION PASSED ON 14 SEPTEMBER 1972

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972- 73-Reference to Estimates Committees : The Minister for Air (Senator Drake-Brockman), pursuant to notice, moved : (l) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending 30 June 1973 and the Particulars of Proposed Provision fo r Certain Expenditure

in respect of the Year Ending 30 June 1973 be referred forthwith to Estimates Committees A, B, C, D , and E for examination and report.

(2) That the Committees deal with the departmental estimates as follows : Estimates Committee A : Department of Health Parliament

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Department of the Treasury Department of Defence

Estimates Committee B: A ttomey-General's Department Postmaster-General's Department Department of Immigration Department of Social Services

Department of the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts

Estimates Committee C: Department of Works Department of Foreign Affairs Department of Labour and National Service Department of Education and Science Department of External Territories Department of Housing

Estimates Committee D: Department of Civil Aviation Department of Trade and Industry Department of National Development Department of Shipping and Transport Department of Customs and Excise

Department of the Interior Tourist Activities

Estimates Committee E : Department of Air Department of Primary Industry Department of the Army

Repatriation Department Department of the Navy Department of Supply

(3) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before 10 October Debate ensued. Question-put and passed.

Contents

page

1. Resolution of the Senate-14 September 1972 1

2. Estimates Committee A-Report 7

Appendix-Written answers to questions 11

Minutes of Proceedings 1972-21 September 23

28 September 25

12 October 27

19 October 29

3. Estimates Committee B-Report 33

Appendix-Written answers to questions 37

Minutes of Proceedings 1972-26 September 65

10 October 67

17 October 70

19 October 72

24 October 74

4. Estimates Committee C-Report 77

Appendix-Written answers to questions 81

Minutes of Proceedings 1972-21 September 87

12 October 91

19 October 93

5. Estimates Committee D-Report 97

Appendix-Written answers to questions 101

Minutes of Proceedings 1972-27 September 111

10 October 113

19 October 118

6. Estimates Committee E-Report 123

Minutes of Proceedings 1972-28 September 127

17 October 130

Appendix-Written answers to questions 135

3

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

On 14 September 1972 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for the year 1972-73 relating to the following departments: The Department of Health, The Parliament,

The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, The Department of the Treasury, The Department of Defence.

The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received written ex­ planatory notes and oral explanations in respect of them from the Assistant Minister assisting the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Health. The Assistant Minister (Senator the Ron. J. E. Marriott) was assisted at the Committee

hearings by a total of 46 officers representing the Departments concerned, and the Committee records its appreciation of the assistance given by the Assistant Minister and the departmental officers.

The comments of members of the Committee and those other Senators who took part in the Committee's proceedings are fully recorded in the Hansard reports of the hearings, together with the answers given to Senators' questions. For the information of the Senate, a copy of these Hansard reports is tabled with this Report,

together with a copy of the Minutes of Proceedings. An examination of these docu­ ments will show that both the Assistant Minister and members of the Committee regarded some matters raised as being more appropriate for discussion during the debate in Committee of the Whole on the Appropriation Bills.

After the completion of the Committee hearings, additional information was received from the Minister for Health in reply to certain questions relating to his Department. This information is included as an Appendix to the Report.

19 October 1972

7

R . G. WITHERS Chairman

Estimates Committee A

Appendix

Dear Senator Withers,

Minister for Health, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 19 October 1972

During the course of the examination by your Committee of the Estimates of my Department for 1972-73, members of the Committee asked a number of questions whicbXnecessitated the provision of further information.

This information has now been prepared and is included in the attached state­ ments.

Senator R. G. Withers, Chairman, Estimates Committee A, Parliament House,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

11

Yours sincerely, KEN ANDERSON

STAFF-PLANNING AND RESEARCH Senator McClelland sought advice whether there had been any increase in the staff of the Research section and while the Departmental representatives indicated that there had been a substantial increase in the staff establishment of the Planning and Research Branch they were not in a position to state the actual numbers but undertook to obtain further information on the matter.

The Planning and Research Branch was created in September 1970 and then comprised 2 officers on the Executive of the Branch and the Research Section of 9 positions. Following approval by the Public Service Board this number in the Research Section was subsequently increased to 14 in December 1971. A feature of the new research establishment was the provision of higher classified staff to undertake more complex economic research work. At the same time the Planning Section was established with the transfer of 4 positions from Medical War Planning and a creation

of a further 8 positions for planning work. A further 2 positions have been created in the Planning Section to service the Hospital and Allied Services Advisory Council. The Central Statistical Unit comprising of 12 Departmental positions and 3 Bureau of Census and Statistics positions which has been operating within the Department for some time was subsequently transferred to the Branch. The existing approved establishment of the Planning and Research Branch is as follows:

Branch Executive 2

Planning 14

Research 14

Statistics 15*

45

This represents an increase in the Departmental establishment of 17 positions on that existing prior to the formation of the Branch in September 1970. All positions in the Research Section and the Planning Section are at present filled . Currently there are three unfilled positions in the Central Statistical Unit and early action is being taken to fill these.

STAFF-ISSUE OF AUTHORITIES TO PRESCRIBE CERTAIN PHARMACEUTICAL BENEFITS During the discussions about the procedures involved in the issue of special authorities to prescribe certain pharmaceutical benefits, Senator McClelland asked how many people within the Department would be engaged on work connected with the obtaining of special authorities. An undertaking was given to obtain this information.

The following staff, on a State basis, are connected with the issue of authorities to prescribed pharmaceutical benefits: New South Wales 19

Victoria ll

Queensland 7

South Australia 4

Western Australia 4

Tasmania 3

Northern Territory 3

Australian Capital Territory 3

Total 54

It should be noted that some of these officers, particularly doctors, would not be engaged full time on work related to the issue of these authorities. * Includes 3 Bureau of Census and Statistics positions. 12

STAFF-ADMINISTRATION OF VOLUNTARY HEALTH INSURANCE SCHEME Senator McClelland asked how many members of the staff of the Health Depart­ ment would be engaged on supervisory or investigational work related to the adminis­ tration of the voluntary health insurance scheme and an undertaking was given to supply this information.

The following are the numbers of staff employed in the Health Insurance and Benefits Branch in the State Offices and the Health Insurance and Benefits Division in Central Office at 30 June 1972-New South Wales

Victoria Queensland South Australia Western Australia Tasmania Central Office ..

101 72 43 35 33 13 74

In forwarding this information to the Committee it is considered that it should be pointed out that the staff represents the total engaged in the Health Insurance and Benefits Branch in the administration of the various schemes, e.g. medical benefits, hospital benefits, nursing home benefits, handicapped persons benefits and Pensioner Medical Service authorised by the National Health Act.

AUTHORISATION FORMS ISSUED TO OPTOMETRISTS Senator McClelland, during the discussions on office requisites and equipment, stationery and printing, sought advice on the number of authorisation forms that have been issued to optometrists since they were given the right of referral.

The total number of notices of referral issued to optometrists and opticians is 41 ,700. It should be pointed out that this represents the actual number of forms issued to optometrists and opticians and not the number of referrals made by them under the Medical Benefits Scheme. In this regard, the Department does not have information available concerning the actual number of referrals that have been made by optome­

trists and opticians.

ADVISORY COMMITTEES

In the course of the Committee's discussions on salaries for the Department's staff, Senator McClelland asked how many advisory committees operate within the purview of the Commonwealth Department of Health. Detailed information on this matter was given in Hansard on 10 March 1971 in

reply to Question No. 539 asked by Mr Daly. However, for ease of reference the list of Committees has been updated and is appended hereunder: Australian Drug Evaluation Committee Advisory Committee on Adverse Drug Reactions

Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee Pharmaceutical Services Committees of Inquiry (all States) Pharmaceutical Services Federal Committee of Inquiry Medical Services Committee of Inquiry (all States)

Specialists Recognition Advisory Committees (all States) Specialist Recognition Appeal Committee

13

Medical Benefits Schedule Advisory Committee Commonwealth Health Insurance Council Therapeutic Goods Standards Committee Therapeutic Goods Advisory Committee Biological Products Standards Committee Commonwealth Council for National Fitness National Tuberculosis Advisory Committee Australian Committee on Pharmacopoeial Revision Human Pituitary Advisory Committee Influenza Vaccine Committee Joint Committee on Pharmaceutical Benefits Pricing Arrangements Advisory Council of the School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine Commonwealth X-Ray Equipment Advisory Committee State Medical Planning Committees (all States) Northern Territory Medical Planning Committee Committee on Nursing Education National Medical War Planning Committee A.C.T. Hospitals Advisory Committee , Committee on Classification of Medical Practitioners using the facilities of the

Canberra Hospital National Health and Medical Research Council National Therapeutic Goods Committee

ACCESS ROAD TO TORRENS ISLAND QUARANTINE STATION During the di scussions about payments to the States and medical practitioners for quarantine services rendered, Senator Jessop indicated his interest in the quarantine station on Torrens Island and asked the current position regarding the access road.

The construction of an access road on Torrens Island S.A. to the Department of Health's quarantine station has been included in the Civil Works Programme for 1972-73 at an estimated cost of $60,000. The work involves the construction of an unsealed 18 feet wide pavement suitable for all weather access extending from an existing sealed road on the area used by the

Electricity Trust of South Australia to the Quarantine Station. The Commonwealth has been granted a right to use and/or improve existing sections and to construct new sections of the roadway. The Commonwealth will be responsible for the construction and maintenance from the boundary of the Electricity Trust's area to the Quarantine Station. The Trust remains responsible for the maintenance of the existing sealed road. Provision is made for contributions from the other party in both instances should there be an appreciable increase in the use of one party's part of the road by the other party.

The Commonwealth's usage of the access road is to be at its own risk and the Commonwealth must indemnify the Trust against claims arising from the use of the road by persons authorised by the Commonwealth. This indemnity does not apply to claims by third parties for which the Trust is indemnified by its insurers. The operation of existing or fut ure 'knock for knock' agreements are not disturbed.

PUBLICITY PAMPHLETS

During the considerable discussion which took place in relation to publicity pamphlets issued by the Department, Senator McClelland wanted to know whether

14

there is a breakdown between the amount spent last year on publicity pamphlets on changes in the health benefits plan and the estimated amount that will be spent in respect of that .item in 1972-73. In the 1971-72 financial year, the Department spent $120,967 on the printing and distribution of pamphlets relating to the Health Benefits Plan.

A sum of $177,000 has been estimated for this purpose for the 1972-73 financial year. Additional items planned or already under way in the current year include the printing of Subsidised Health Benefits pamphlets in foreign languages for the benefit

of migrants ( $12,000), the revision and re-printing of pamphlets on Handicapped Children's Benefits ($5,000), the Pensioner Medical Service ($8,000) and Hearing Aids for Pensioners ( $3,000), stocks of which are almost exhausted ; and the printing of a Health Services Handbook ($12,000) to replace a previous comprehensive guide to the National Health Scheme which is now out of date.

The estimated cost of pamphlets already under way is $24,600.

UTILIZATION OF COMPUTER CAPACITY During the discussion of the item 'Computer Services', Senator Georges asked to what extent, taking a 24 hour day, the Department's computer capacity is being used at the present time.

Under normal circumstances the Department's computers are operated on a two shift per day, 5 days per week basis in meeting the processing needs of a range of computing systems now in operation and under development in the Department. Fluctuations in demand are currently accommodated by ad hoc overtime or by an

additional shift worked over the weekend. The extent to which present computing facilities will continue to meet de veloping ADP needs has recently been reviewed. This examination indicates the necessity for a selective upgrading of the present facilities. The upgrading would achieve more efficient use of computing equipment currently installed and release for use a signi­ ficant amount of latent processing power not otherwise available. The upgraded

facilities would not only meet the foreseeable needs of the Department but would also allow recent developments in software systems and systems technology to be exploited to advantage. A move to 3 shift operation from the present 2 shift arrangement does not represent a practical or satisfactory alternative means of achieving these objectives.

A case for acquisition of the additional facilities required will be put before1the Interdepartmental Committee on ADP during this financial year. An amount estimated to cover the capitai cost of this equipment is included in the 1972-73 provision for Departmental Capital Works and Services.

HEARING AIDS SUPPLIED BY COMMONWEALTH ACOUSTIC LABORATORIES During discussion of the item relating to hearing aids for Repatriation patients and Service personnel, Senator Jessop sought advice on the unit cost of supplying hearing aids to patients, having regard to an assessment of the consultation costs as

well as the cost of the aids.

15

The Commonwealth Acoustic Laboratories issue 2 types of hearing aid-the Calaid E worn in the ear and the Calaid T worn on the body. Approximately two­ thirds of the issues are of the Calaid E type.

A survey of the cost of issue of each type of aid was carried out in 1970 and the results of this survey have been adjusted to present day costs to provide an estimated figure of approximately $48 for a Calaid E and $44 for a Calaid T. The costs of issue are identical for all classes of patient.

Necessary maintenance for these aids is also provided by the Commonwealth Acoustic Laboratories. While it is not possible to determine the labour component of the maintenance costs, materials utilized for this purpose average $2. 54 per annum per aid repaired.

Senator McAuliffe suggested that batteries for hearing aids should be provided free for Repatriation patients. Repatriation patients are and always have been supplied with replacement batteries free of charge.

COMMONWEALTH SERUM LABORATORIES-CADETSHIPS During discussion on the item relating to the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories Commission-Advance for Research under Section 19(b) of the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories Act, Senator McClelland drew attention to cadetships offered to a small number of students and asked whether the students are bonded to the Laboratories upon completion of their science degree.

Students who are selected as cadets by the Commission are bonded to remain in the Commission's employment for a period of 4 years after completion of their bachelor's degree. The format of the bond is identical with that applied by Common­ wealth Departments, except that it specifically binds the graduate to the Commission rather than the Commonwealth.

COMMONWEALTH SERUM LABORATORIES-RESEARCH In the discussions concerning the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories Com­ mission Senator Turnbull asked whether the Committee could be informed of any positive results from research that has been undertaken by the Commission in the last few years.

It is not clear what was envisaged by Senator Turnbull in his reference to 'positive results' from research at Commonwealth Serum Laboratories. However, reference to the Commission's annual reports will show that over the last 3 years a large number of papers prepared by Commonwealth Serum Laboratories staff have been published in international scientific literature. This is evidence of a 'positive result' by those scientists engaged in research activities at the Commonwealth Serum Labora­ tories Commission.

Apart from these results, during the last three years the following 'positive results' have been achieved by members of the Research Division in carrying out Research and Development associated with the production of: (a) Sea wasp antivenene for the management of stingings due to this organism.

16

(b) Adult diphtheria-tetanus toxoid vaccine for the immunization or to boost the immunity of adults against both diphtheria and tetanus. (c) Improvements to the milk ring antigen making it more acceptable for routine testing of animals for freedom from brucellosis. (d) Preparation of a diagnostic agent for the detection offibrin(ogen) split products

in human serum. (e) The assessment of immunity to rubella by development of the haemagglutina­ tion-inhibition test for antibody detection. (f) The production of mite extract from the common dust mite, Dermato­

phagoides pteronyssinus for the diagnosis of house dust allergy, and for the subsequent desensitization of sufferers. (g) Preparation of Kveim antigen for the diagnosis of disturbances of the cellular immune mechanism.

In addition the 3 WHO Reference Centres, which operate within the Research Division contribute 'positive results' in the following ways: (a) The Brucellosis Centre types and identifies brucella strains from all over Australia and works in close collaboration with the Commonwealth and

States Veterinary Committee and its brucellosis eradication program. (b) The Influenza Centre identifies respiratory viruses which are sent to it from all parts of the Commonwealth. It communicates its findings to the World Influenza Centres in London and Atlanta, and is also responsible for ensuring

the availability of new influenza strains for vaccine production purposes. (c) The Blood Group Reference Centre assist the Blood Transfusion Services, hospitals and pathologists with blood grouping problems and ensures the quality and reliability of sera and other diagnostic agents used in immuno­

haematology.

Members of the Research Division of the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories are often called on to assist with problems in other areas, and some Department's work carries a heavy service load, e.g. biophysical instrumentation and chemical analyses carried out by the Biochemistry Research Department. Such work must also

be considered as both positive and productive; in these cases the necessary skills and equipment happen to be located within the Research Division.

This reply is necessarily brief. It has not, for example, touched on the positive contributions made by members of the Research Division at Commonwealth Serum Laboratories who sit on expert panels or committees, who carry out surveys, e.g. the extent of immunity to diphtheria, or who lecture to medical and paramedical groups

in such fields as the principles of immunity, the use of blood fractions, or the clinical effects of envenomation.

CANBERRA HOSPITAL-REPATRIATION PATIENTS In the course of the examination of the subvention towards the cost of running the Canberra Hospital, Senator Jessop asked how many Repatriation patients had been treated at the hospital over the last 12 months.

Advice from the Hospital indicates that over the last 12 months 271 Repatriation patients were treated at that institution which represents 1 . 2 per cent of the total of patients treated.

17

CANBERRA HOSPITAL-SUNDRY DEBTORS During the consideration of the estimate for the subvention to the Canberra Hospital, Senator Guilfoyle asked whether the unpaid accounts of patients are taken into consideration.

The estimate of Commonwealth subvention towards the running costs of the Canberra Hospital for 1972-73 took into account the cash expected to be received from patient fees. The amount of fees outstanding at 30 June 1972 was $746,638. However, due to increased charges operative from 1 August 1971 and an expected increase in the occupied bed days in 1972-73 it is estimated that the level of out­ standing debts at 30 June 1973 will be $45,000 higher than at 30 June 1972.

A.C.T. HEALTH SERVICES BRANCH: CHILD AND FAMILY GUIDANCE CLINICS Senator Jessop asked for particulars of the number of private psychiatrists and genetal practitioners employed on a sessional basis at the Child and Family Guidance Clinics and the rates paid by the Department for their services.

The Clinics at present employ one Consultant Paediatrician and one Specialist Psychiatrist. Both consultants are paid sessional fees at the usual rates payable to a Senior Specialist, i.e., $15.55 for the first hour and $6.20 for each subsequent half hour.

AERIAL TRANSPORT OF PATIENTS IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY During the course of the Committee's discussions about medical supplies in the Northern Territory, Senator Jessop asked for information on the number of Aboriginal patients carried on the Aerial Medical Service compared with the number of European patients.

During 1971-72 the numbers of patients carried by air to and/or from the hospitals in the Northern Territory were as follows:

Northern Area Southern Area Gove Area ..

Aboriginal European

2,269 554 16

235 119 46

INCINERATORS FOR OVERSEAS SHIPS' GARBAGE During the discussion about the funds provided by the Commonwealth for the provision of incinerators and associated works in relation to the disposal of garbage from overseas ships, Senator Lawrie sought advice as to the Australian ports which have been or are being supplied with garbage destructors or incinerators.

18

The following table lists the ports where incinerators have been constructed or are under consideration in the States and the Northern Territory as at October 1972.

State

Queensland

New South Wales ..

Victoria

Tasmania . .

South Australia

Western Australia ..

Northern Territory

Incinerators have been constructed at

Brisbane Townsville Cairns Gladstone Thursday Island

Weipa Bowen Mourilyan Mackay

Port Alma Bundaberg Urangan Lucinda Point

Portland Geelong Westernport Hobart

Devenport Port Huon Stanley Beauty Point

Bell Bay Burnie Elect rona Spring Bay

Port Adelaide Port Pirie Port Lincoln Fremantle

19

Nil

Incinerators under construction or to be constructed

Discussion on technical matters relating to provision of in­ cinerators at Sydney and New­ castle at present being held. Port of Melbourne

Nil

Wallaroo

Esperance Albany Bun bury Gerald ton

Darwin

Estimates Committee A

of Proceedrnngs

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITIEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 15

THURSDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 11.45 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Withers) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE: Pursuant to Order of the Senate, the Committee proceeded to consider the par­ ticulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1973, relating to the following departmental estimates:

Department of Health Parliament Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Department of the Treasury Department of Defence

The Chairman called on Divisions 290-295 (Document A) and Divisions 840-842 (Document B)-Department of Health $53,598,000 and $8,873,400.

Appearing: Senator the Hon. J. E. Marriott, Assistant Minister Assisting the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers: Dr L. J. Wienholt, Deputy Director-General Mr R. G. Walton, Director, Finance

Dr R. G. Wells, Commonwealth Director of Health, Canberra Dr W .. Langsford, Commonwealth Director of Health, Darwin Mr L. J. Daniels, First Assistant Director-General, Hospital Insurance & Medical Benefits

Dr B. C. E. Ashley, Acting Assistant Director-General, Therapeutics Dr R. E. M. Wilson, Assistant Director-General, Pharmaceuticals Mr R. W. Gee, Assistant Director-General, Animal Quarantine Mr J. B. Lleonart, Director, Public Relations

Mr P. Griffin, Chief Accountant Mr P. Spitzer, Assistant Director, Finance & Supply, N.T. Health Service. Mr P. O'Reilly, Senior Executive Officer, A.C.T. Health Services

23

The following Divisions were considered by the Committee: $

290 Administrative 31,888,400

292 Canberra Hospital Management Board 5,832,000

293 Australian Capital Territory Health Services 3,059,400

294 Northern Territory Hospitals 8,817,000

295 Northern Territory Health Services 4,001,200

840 Capital Works & Services 6,021,000

842 Payments to or for the States 2,852,400

The Chairman then called on Divisions 101-109 and Division 800, Parliament $5,699,000 and $15,000 Appearing with the Assistant Minister: Mr J. R. Odgers, Clerk of the Senate

Mr A. R. Cumming Thorn, Clerk-Assistant, the Senate Mr R. G. Mair, Senior Parliamentary Officer Mr H. Knight, Finance Officer, Parliamentary Library Mr W. J. Bridgman, Principal Parliamentary Reporter, Parliamentary Reporting

Staff Mr F. Temperley, Administrative Officer, Parliamentary Reporting Staff Mr R. J. Hillyer, Secretary, Joint House Department Mr R. Burrell, Chief Executive Officer, Joint House Department Treasury Representative, Mr A. L. Ray, Senior Finance Officer.

The following Division was considered by the Committee:

101 Senate

$

1,186,900

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.25 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator R. G. Withers (Chairman), Senators Gair, Georges, Gietzelt, Guilfoyle, Jessop, Lawrie and D. McClelland. Senators Byrne, McAuliffe, McManus, Townley, Turnbull and Young also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

19 October 1972

24

R. G. WITHERS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No.16

THURSDAY, 28 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12 . 30 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Withers) took the Chair.

2. CORRESPONDENCE: The Chairman reported the receipt of a letter from the Clerk of the Senate containing answers to questions asked at the previous sitting during the consideration of the estimates for the Department of the Senate. Ordered: That the letter be incorporated in the Hansard record of the present sitting.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE: The Committee resumed its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expendi­ ture for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1973. The Chairman called on Divisions 101-109:

(Document A) $5,699,000, and Division 800 (Document B) $15,000-Parliament-for further consideration. , Appearing: Senator the Hon. J. E. Marriott, Assistant Minister assisting the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Senate: Mr J. R. Odgers, Clerk of the Senate Mr A. R. Cumming Thorn, Clerk-Assistant Mr R. G. Mair, Administrative Officer

Mr H. G. Smith, Usher of the Black Rod Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff: Mr W. J. Bridgeman, Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr F \ W. Temperly, Administrative Officer

Deparqnent of the Parliamentary Library: Mr A. L. Moore, Parliamentary Librarian Mr M. J. Brudenall, Principal Reference Librarian Mr H. Knight, Finance Officer

Mr M. J. Bray, Administrative Officer Joint House Department: Mr R. W. Hillyer, Secretary Mr R. L. Burrell, Chief Executive Officer

Department of the Treasury: Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Division

25

The following Divisions were considered by the Committee: $

101 Senate 1,186,900

102 House of Representatives 1,329,000

103 Parliamentary Reporting Staff 1,047,000

104 Library 932,200

105 Joint House Department 1,096,400

108 Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works 58,500 109 Joint Committee of Public Accounts 49,000

800 Joint House Department 15,000

The Chairman then called on Divisions 430-459 (Document A) $31,039,000 and Divisions 880 and 882 (Document B) $5,708,800-Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. Appearing with the Assistant Minister:

Mr P. H. Bailey, Deputy-Secretary Mr J. G. Hinton, Director, Establishments and Finance Branch Mr W. N. Weidner, Finance Officer Auditor-General's Office:

Mr C. A. Harrington, Acting First Assistant Auditor-General Mr D. W. Burdett, Controller Public Service Board: Mr H. B. MacDonald, Secretary

Mr R. N. Allen, Senior Inspector Department of the Treasury: Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Division The Committee completed its consideration of these Divisions ( 430-459; 880 and 882).

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.39 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present : Senator Withers (Chairman), Senators Gair, Georges, Gietzelt, Guilfoyle, Jessop, Lawrie and D. McClelland. · Senators McManus and Milline.r also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

19 October 1972

26

R. G. WITHERS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

THURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Withers) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE: The Committee resumed its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expen­ diture for the Service of the year ending 30 June 1973. The Chairman called on Divisions 540-552, and 560 (Document A) $110,396,000

and $30,000,000; and Divisions 915-918 and 920 (Document B) $74,546,500-Department of the Treasury, and Advance to the Treasurer: $30,000,000. Appearing: Senator the Hon. J. E. Marriott, Assistant Minister assisting the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Treasury: Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting & Supply Division. Dr N. Davey, Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth-State Financial Relations Mr F. V. Colvin, Director, Finance & General Services

Mr K. F. Corbitt, Finance Officer. Commonwealth Taxation Office: Mr K. F. Myers, First Assistant Commissioner, Management Division Mr D. J. Black, Assistant Commissioner, Policy & Legislation Division Office of the Superannuation & Defence Forces Retirement Benefits Boards:

Mr D. D. Hume, Director, Services. Bureau of Census and Statistics: Mr J. G. Miller, Deputy Commonwealth Statistician. Mr F. D. Pagley, Assistant Statistician, Services. The Committee completed its consideration of these Divisions. The Chairman then called on Divisions 600-626 (Document A) $34,720,000-

Department of Defence. Appearing with the Assistant Minister: Department of Defence: Mr R. W. Beaver, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch, Man­

power Policy and Management Services Division. Mr D. S. Clues, Assistant Secretary, External Programmes and Standardiza­ tion Branch, Logistics Division

27

Mr L. V. Hume, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Services Personnel Branch, Manpower Policy and Management Services Division. Mr M. W. B. Smithies, Assistant Secretary, Defence Planning Division Brigadier R. K. Roseblade, Director-General of Recruiting, Directorate of

Recruiting Mr H. F. Daly, Finance Officer (Departmental), Management Services Branch, Manpower Policy and Management Services Division. The Committee completed its consideration of these Divisions.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 3.45 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Withers (Chairman), Senators Gair, Georges, Gietzelt, Guilfoyle and Jessop. Senators McLaren and Webster also took part in the Committee's proceedings,

19 October 1972

28

.R. G. WITHERS Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No.18

THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.05 p.m. The Chairman''(Senator Withers) took the chair. ·

2. MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on 21 and 28 September and 12 October were read and confirmed.

3. CORRESPONDENCE: The Chairman reported receipt of a letter dated 19 October, from the Minister for Health, forwarding additional answers to questions asked during the hearing relating to his Department . . It was resolved that the letter and accompanying material be included as an

Appendix to the Committee's Report.

4. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered a Draft Report to the Senate. The Draft Report was agreed to, in the form proposed.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 2.10 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Withers (Chairman), Senators Guilfoyle and Jessop.

19 October 1973

29

R. G. WITHERS Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

23325/72-3

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

I. Estimates Committee B has the honour to Report to the Senate.

2. On September 1972 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Estimates for the year 1972-73 relating to the following Departments: Attorney-General's Postmaster-General's

Immigration Social Services Environment, Aborigines and the Arts.

3. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received explanations from the Minister and Officers of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceed­ ings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate, in connection with the Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1972- 73

and the Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1972-73.

4. The Committee further reports that it was unable to complete its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1972 for the Postmaster-General's Department, Division 870-Capital Works and Services, Item 01, for expenditure under the Post and Telegraph Act (for payment to the Post Office Trust Account)-$288,000,000. This was due to

the limited time available to the Committee, occasioned by the fact that at the first appearance before the Committee of the Minister and Officers of this Department explanatory notes provided relating expenditure to the order of $1,276,000,000 and receipts to the order of $988,000,000 were too brief to enable the Committee to adequately discharge the function entrusted to it by the Senate. The examination of

this item was then delayed for a week to enable adequate explanations to be provided and studied by Committee members.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the explanations ultimately provided and the co-operation it received from the Attorney-General, Senator the Honourable I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., and the officers of the various departments who assisted the Minister during the inquiry.

6. After the completion of the Committee hearings, additional information was received from the Attorney-General in reply to questions asked by Senators during the inquiry. This information is included as an Appendix to the Report.

33

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

Estimates Committee B

Appendix

Dear Senator Davidson,

ATIORNEY-GENERAL, CANBERRA 18 October 1972

You will recall that during the hearing of the Estimates for the Australian Broad­ casting Commission on 10 October, 1972, I indicated that replies would be obtained to some questions for which the information was not then available.

I enclose copies of answers supplied to me by officers of the Australian Broad­ casting Commission for the information of the Committee.

Senator G. S. Davidson, Chairman, Senate Estimates Committee B, Parliament House,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

37

Yours sincerely,

IVOR J. GREENWOOD

SENATE ESTIMATEs COMMITTEE B

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION ESTIMATES 1972-73

Meeting held on 10 October 1972

Hansard, Page 256

Questions asked by Senator James McClelland about the Cost of the ABC News Service: 1. Would it be possible to make a more or less satisfactory division of expenditures on the salary of people in the news service as between radio and television?

2. Where would the $2,500,000 allocated as overheads to the news service go?

3. It seems to me that a figure as particular as $7,509,700 must have been arrived at by the calculation of a series of items ....... ............. Why cannot I be given those

various items ?

Answer: Attached is a statement showing a dissection of the costs of the ABC News Service, which provides the information required by the Honourable Senator.

38

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION

STATEMENT SHOWING DISSECTION OF THE COSTS OF THE ABC NEWS SERVICE ESTIMATES 1972-73

Actual Estimates 1971-72 1972-73

$ s

Radio-Direct Salaries .. . . . . . . . . .. 1,834,417 1,857,000

Direct Expenses .. .. .. .. .. . . 419,926 412,140

Engineering Services (such as the use of radio studios and associated equipment and mobile radio vans) .. .. .. . . 281,441 307,136

General Overhead Expenses (such as rents, electricity, cleaning, repairs, telephones, .cables and administrative salaries) .. 663,304 728,546

3,199,088 3,304,822

Television-Direct Salaries .. . . .. . . .. . . 1,222,945 1,238,000

Direct Expenses . . . . .. . . .. . . 788,749 837,270

Engineering Services (such as the use of electronic studios and associated equipment and mobile television vans) .. .. 506,259 554,435

Production Facilities (such as cinecameramen, film editing and graphics) . . . . . . .. .. . . 1,040,991 1,089,553

General Overhead Expenses (such as rents, electricity, cleaning, repairs, telephones, cables and administrative salaries) .. 442,203 485,697

4,001,147 4,204,955

Total .. . . . . .. . . .. 7,200,235 7,509,777

39

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMTITEE ,B

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION ESTIMATES 1972-73

Meeting held on 10 October 1972

Hansard, Page 260

Question asked by Senator Mulvihill: Has the ABC News Service thought it was at any time unfairly discriminated against by senior Ministers, including the Prime Minister on recent Asian trips, or has the ABC been happy with them?

Answer: The ABC News Service has received full co-operation from all Commonwealth Ministers on recent Asian trips.

40

SENATE FSTIMATES COMMITTEE B

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION - ESTIMATES 1972-73

Meeting held on 10 October 1972

Hansard, Page 268

Questions asked by Senator Mulvihill: What is being done about training indigenous people in Papua New Guinea to operate broadcasting and television services? (page 268).

Ans-wer: So far as the ABC's operations are concerned, there has been constant training to prepare the local staff to take over the ABC's operations when the new Broadcasting Authority in Papua New Guinea is created.

Training has taken place in the field of news reporting, programme making and in the operation of technical equipment. As a result, at present, out of a total staff of 173, 121 are indigenous. In the Technical Services area, there are 16 indigenous employees, 4 of whom have graduated as Technicians through the ABC's Technician-in-Training scheme;

6 are currently engaged as Technicians-in-Training; and 5 are employed, having been given on-the-job training as operators of technical equipment. Some have received training in Australia. In the News field, where 15 out of a total staff of 23 are indigenous employees, the Associate News Editor is an indigenous employee and will be able to take over

the position of News Editor when the ex-patriate ABC News Editor leaves. The staff at present includes 5 indigenous members being trained through the cadet journalist scheme. An indigenous staff member has held the position of Journalist-in-Charge of the ABC's Rabaul News Room for more than a year. Most indigenous Journalists

have received training in Australia in the ABC News Rooms. In the general programme area, 5 announcers are indigenous employees out of a total staff of 8 announcers; 3 out of a total staff of 4 in rural programmes are indigenous employees; all staff employed on religious broadcasts are indigenous as are all trans­ lation staff. All have been trained on the job by the ABC.

41

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA

ATTORNEY-GENERAL, CANBERRA 19 October 1972

Dear Senator Davidson,

I enclose for the information of the members of the Committee a reply which I have received from the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts in response to the questions asked at the meeting of the Committee on Tuesday last relating to the Commonwealth Advertising Council.

Senator G. S. Davidson, Chairman, Senate Estimates Committee B, Parliament House,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

42

Yours sincerely, IVOR J. GREENWOOD

My dear Minister,

MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, ABORIGINES AND THE ARTS 19 October 1972

I refer to your request for advice on the questions concerning Commonwealth advertising raised by some members of Senate Estimates Committee B on 17 October 1972 in the course of their examination of the estimates of expenditure of my Depart­ ment for the current financial year.

Having perused the Hansard record, it seems to me that the substance of the questions raised in the Committee has already been answered by me in response to a variety of questions asked earlier this year in both Houses of the Parliament. I attach, for the information of the Committee, the following extracts from Hansard:

(a) 22 February 1972-Answer to Question No. 1209 asked by Senator Douglas McClelland, (b) 22 February 1972-Answer to Question No. 1300 asked by Senator Kane, (c) 22 February 1972-Answer to Question No. 3798 asked by Mr Grassby, (d) 21 March 1972-Answer to Question No. 5056 asked by Mr. Grassby, (e) 12 April 1972-Answer to Question without notice asked by Senator Kane,

(f) 27 April 1972-Answer to Question No. 1982 asked by Senator Douglas McClelland, (g) 16 May 1972-Answer to Question No. 1983 asked by Senator Douglas McClelland, (h) 16 May 1972-Answer to Question No. 5423 asked by Mr Grassby,

(i) 17 May 1972-Question without notice asked by Senator Douglas McClelland, U) 13 June 1972-Letter in reply to Question asked by Senator Douglas McClelland on 17 May 1972.

The names of the advertising agencies who handled Commonwealth work in 1969, 1970 and 1971 are contained in (g) .

The position regarding the amounts paid to individual agencies is referred to in (e), (g), (h) and (i). In view of the nature of the discussion by the Estimates Committee, I would like to emphasise that: • the commissions to the advertising agencies are determined and allowed by

the media proprietors, not by the Commonwealth; • whilst the commissions are allowed from moneys paid to the media from the public purse, the commissions themselves are not public moneys; • not being public moneys, the commissions are not subject to audit by the

Auditor-General and the Commonwealth has no right to require the Com­ monwealth Advertising Council to divulge its allocation of the commissions to individual agencies.

In a question in Committee, Senator Douglas McClelland implied that there was an inconsistency between the answer which he was given to Question No. 1983 ((g) above) and the letter of 13 June which he later received from the Acting Minister ((j) above). In fact, there is no real inconsistency. Payments of commission are deter­

mined and made by media proprietors but the payments are not made directly to the

43

advertising agencies because, within the industry, it has been decided that the pay­ ments shall first be lodged in a pool account and then distributed to individual agencies by the Commonwealth Advertising Council according to a formula which it has established.

The estimates of expenditure for 1971-72 on advertising by Commonwealth Departments are contained in (f). Actual expenditure figures are being obtained and I will make them available to you as soon as practicable. Within the next few days I will provide you with the information sought by Senator Mulvihill concerning advertising in foreign language newspapers, the 'Century' and the audit of circulations.

Senator the Honourable I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

44

Yours sincerely, PETER HOWSON

THE SENATE

Question No. 1209

22 February 1972

Senator DOUGLAS McCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) Are members of the Commonwealth Advertising Council elected by the advertising industry to the Council or are they appointed.

(2) How many members of the Commonwealth Advertising Council are­ (a) members of foreign-owned advertising companies operating in Australia; (b) members of Australian advertising companies that have bee1;1 acquired by foreign interests; (c) members of Australian advertising companies in which the majority of capital

is of overseas origin; and (d) members of wholly owned Australian advertising companies.

Senator GREENWOOD-The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has furnished the following reply: (1) The Council's constitution provides that it shall consist of not more than eleven members, each of whom shall be a principal of an advertising agency which partici­

pates in the planning, originating or placing of Commonwealth advertising. The Council at present consists of 10 members. Five members are elected biennially on the votes of agencies which, during the preceding 2 years, have participated in the planning, originating or production of

Commonwealth advertising. The other 5 members represent agencies rendering placing/charging services to the Commonwealth. They hold membership for the duration of their appointment by the Commonwealth in this capacity.

(2) Precise information regarding agency ownership is not readily available. The present membership is not readily available. The present membership of the Com­ monwealth Advertising Council is believed to represent a near even balance of Aus­ tralian-owned and foreign-owned agencies.

45 ·

Commonwealth Advertising

THE SENATE

Question No. 1300

22 February 1972

Senator KANE asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) Why is the bulk of Commonwealth advertising in Australia, and that of Govern­ ment instrumentalities, handled by advertising agencies which are wholly foreign­

owned, when there are more Australian-owned resident agencies than foreign-owned. (2) Is membership of the Commonwealth Advertising Council monopolised by persons who are heads of wholly foreign-owned agencies.

Senator GREENWOOD-The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has furnished the following reply: (1) The Commonwealth Advertising Council has advised that, during the year ended 30th June 1971, approximately 72 per cent of disbursements to agencies in

respect of advertising placed by Commonwealth departments through the Council organisation went to wholly Australian-owned agencies. A high proportion of the advertising released in Australia by statutory authorities of the Commonwealth is not placed through the Council organisation and there is no central record of disbursements to advertising agencies which provide services for such authorities.

(2) No. See answer to Question 1209.

46

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Question No. 3798

22 February 1972

Mr GRASSBY asked the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) Have Commonwealth Government Departments and Agencies entered into contracts with advertising agencies.

(2) If so: (a) how many contracts have been entered into ; (b) what agencies are involved; (c) what is the value of each contract; and

(d) what was the subject of the advertising in each case. (3) Which of the advertising agencies are-Ca) foreign agencies; and

(b) Australian owned. (4) Can he say whether the law in the United States of America provides that the Government or its associated instrumentalities may not appoint foreign services in the form of advertising agents unless these services are absolutely unprocurable from

an American source. (5) If so, is he able to say whether the overall effect is to prohibit the expenditure of American taxpayer's money otherwise than through American facilities. (6) Can he say whether Canada has excluded foreign agencies from participating in the bulk of the $20m spent annually by federal and provincial governments through

their various operations. (7) Will he explain the attitude of the Australian Government in this matter. (8) If the attitude of his Government is significantly different from that of the United States and Canada what is the reason.

Mr HOWSON-The answer to the honourable member's question is as follows: (1) to (3) Advertising by Commonwealth departments is handled through an association of advertising agencies known as the Commonwealth Advertising Council. With few exceptions fixed period contracts between a department and a particular agency have not been involved.

Placing/charging work is passed through four agencies each of which is appointed for a 5 year period to cover a particular media category (Press Display, Press Classified, Radio/Television and Miscellaneous). For planning/production of advertising material, individual agencies are selected by

the Commonwealth Advertising Branch of the Australian Government Publishing Service to handle specific requirements rather than being engaged on a period contract basis. During the year ended 30th June 1971 the Branch used the services of 46 advertising agencies. Of these agencies 33 are understood to be subtantially Australian-owned

and 13 to be substantially foreign-owned.

47

(4) and (5) I am not in possession of full details of United States policies in regard to government advertising. I am having enquiries made and will provide the informa­ tion obtained as soon as possible. (6) I am having enquiries made and will provide the information obtained as soon as possible.

(7) and (8) The basic aim of Commonwealth purchasing policy in advertising, as in other fields, is to obtain the best value for money spent.

48

·;;·'

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Question No. 5056

21 March 1972

Mr GRASSBY asked the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) Will he list the 13 foreign advertising agencies and the 33 Australian-owned agencies used by the Commonwealth Advertising Branch of the Australian Govern­

ment Publishing Service during the year ended 30th June 1971. (2) What was the value of the advertising contracts involved.

Mr HOWSON-The answer to the honourable member's question is as follows: Understood to be substantially Australian-owned­ Berry Currie Advertising (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd Gordon & Gotch (A/asia) Ltd

Claude Mooney Advertising Pty Ltd Duthie National Advertising Pty Ltd Hayes Advertising Agency Pty Ltd Australian Advertising Agency Pty Ltd

Le Grand Advertising Pty Ltd Clem Taylor O'Brien Pty Ltd Adcraft Service Pty Ltd John Higgins Advertising Associates C. H. Lucas Advertising Pty Ltd

Martin Kinnear Clemenger Pty Ltd Nichols Cummings Advertising (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd H. V. Norwood Advertising Noel Paton (Vic.) Pty Ltd Aldwych Advertising Pty Ltd

Advertising Associates Pty Ltd Berry Currie Collett Advertising (W.A.) Pty Ltd Warnock Sandford Williams Pty Ltd Best & Co. Pty Ltd John Clemenger Pty Ltd

Berry Currie Advertising (Vic.) Pty Ltd John Clemenger (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd Murray Evans Advertising Pty Ltd Fred Luxton Advertising Pty Ltd

Max L. Gosewinckel & Associates Pty Ltd Warwick Advertising Pty Ltd Carden Advertising Pty Ltd NAS (Sydney) Pty Ltd

Arthur L. Rosebery Advertising Pty Ltd Mullins Clarke & Ralph (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd Understood to be substantially foreign-owned­ George Patterson Pty Ltd

Grant Advertising Pty Ltd

49

Foote, Cone & Belding Pty Ltd Hansen-Rubensohn-McCann-Erickson Pty Ltd S.S.C. & B.: Lintas Pty Ltd J. Walter Thompson Australia Pty Ltd USP Benson (Vic.) Pty Ltd Coudrey Campbell Ewald Pty Ltd

Masius, Synne-Williams (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd Lonsdale-Hands Australia Pty Ltd Jackson Wain & Co. Pty Ltd Jackson Wain (Tas.) Pty Ltd George Patterson Noble Bartlet Pty Ltd (2) The total value of Commonwealth advertising handled through the 46 agencies during the year ended 30th June 1971 was $6,473,753.

THE SENATE

Question No. 1300

12 Apri/1972

Senator GREENWOOD-In the Senate on 8th March 1972 Senator Kane asked me, as Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, the following questions: (a) Is the placement of the bulk of Commonwealth advertising made through 3

placing agencies? (b) Does the Commonwealth Advertising Council in turn delegate the actual creation of the advertising to a number of other agencies and pass on to these latter agencies a proportion of the profits earned from the replacement of advertisements?

(c) Will the Minister name the agencies that participated during the last fiscal year in the disbursement of these profits and what were the profits received by each individual agency?

The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has furnished the following replies: (a) The Commonwealth Advertising Branch places departmental advertising in Australia through 4 main placing agencies in Sydney and their branches or affiliated

agencies in the other capital cities. (b) Creative work associated with departmental advertising is handled by accredited agencies appointed for each task by the Commonwealth Advertising Branch. Both placing and creative agencies are remunerated from a pool of media commissions

and other revenue items administered by the Commonwealth Advertising Council. (c) I invite the honourable senator's attention to my reply to a similar request by the honourable member for Riverina (House of Representatives Hansard of 21st March 1972, page 947).

51

THE SENATE

Question No. 1982

27 Apri/1972

Senator DOUGLAS McCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) For which Departments of the Commonwealth does the Commonwealth Advertising Division handle advertising arrangements.

(2) What is the total amount involved in advertising by each of those Departments this financial year. (3) Which Commonwealth Departments and Commonwealth Instrumentalities handle their own advertising arrangements.

Senator GREENWOOD-The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honurable senator's question: (1) All departments. (2) The departments have estimated their advertising expenditures during 1971-72

as follows:

Air Army Attorney-General . . Civil Aviation Customs and Excise Defence .. Education and Science Environment, Aborigines and the Arts Foreign Affairs External Territories Health Housing .. Immigration Interior ..

Labour and National Service National Development Navy Postmaster-General Primary Industry .. Prime Minister and Cabinet Repatriation Shipping and Transport Social Services Supply ..

Trade and Industry Treasury Works

52

$

25,000 63,354 38,300 80,000

5,000

1,428,800 36,000 21,700 6,200 91,000 175,000

11,400 37,000 99,720 150,000

12,000 100,000 800,000 34,500

160,380 46,000 150,000 12,000 110,000 154,000 1,219,000

130,000

5,196,354

(3) The following Commonwealth Instrumentalities handle their own advertising arrangements: Australian Broadcasting Commission Australian Coastal Shipping Commission

Australian Tourist Commission Commonwealth Banking Corporation Commonwealth Railways Commonwealth Serum Laboratories Housing Loans Insurance Corporation

Overseas Telecommunications Commission QANTAS Airways Ltd Reserve Bank of Australia Trans-Australia Airlines

The Commodity Boards The Postmaster-General's Department and the Department of Trade and Industry deal direct with advertising agencies in connection with the preparation of material for advertising campaigns. The material is, however, placed with media through the

Commonwealth Advertising Branch.

53

THE SENATE

Question No. 1983

16 May 1972

Senator DOUGLAS McCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

(1) Which advertising agencies have received placing and creative work from the Commonwealth in each of the last 3 years.

(2) What has been the total amount of the billings in each case, and how much wa5 paid to each company.

Senator GREENWOOD-The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question :

(1) The Commonwealth appoints placing/charging agencing for terms of up to 5 years and these agencies appoint sub-placing agencies for each State. The following agencies held such appointments during the years 1969-1970 and 1971: Berry Currie Advertising (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd

Gordon & Gotch (A/asia) Ltd (Sydney) George Patterson Pty Ltd (Sydney) Masius, Wynne-Williams (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd Hayes Advertising Agency Pty Ltd (Melbourne) Claude Mooney Advertising Pty Ltd (Melbourne)

John Clemenger Pty Ltd (Melbourne)

Best & Co. Pty Ltd (Melbourne)

LeGrand Advertising Pty Ltd (Brisbane) Australian Advertising Agency Pty Ltd (Brisbane)

George Patterson-Noble Bartlett Pty Ltd (Brisbane)

Duthie National Advertising Pty Ltd (Brisbane)

Clem Taylor O'Brien Pty Ltd (Adelaide)

George Patterson Pty Ltd (Adelaide)

Foote Cone-Belding Pty Ltd (Adelaide)

Martin, Kinnear, Clemenger Pty Ltd (Adelaide)

Berry Currie Collett Advertising (W.A.) Pty Ltd

Warnock Sandford Williams Pty Ltd (Perth)

Adcraft Service Pty Ltd (Perth)

H. V. Norwood Advertising (Perth)

Jackson Wain (Tas.) Pty Ltd

54

Agencies are engaged to handle creative work connected with departmental advertising as required. The following agencies were so engaged during the last 3 years:

1971 1970 1969

John Higgins Advertising Associates (Melb.) . . . . .. X X X

Jackson Wain & Co Pty Ltd (Sydney) . . . . .. X X X

SSC & B : Lintas Pty Ltd (Sydney) . . . . . . .. X X X

Lonsdale Hands Australia Pty Ltd (Melb.) . . . . .. X X X

C. H. Lucas Advertising Pty Ltd (Melb.) . . .. .. X X X

NAS (Sydney) Pty Ltd . . . . . . .. .. X

" X

Nichols Cumming Advertising (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd .. .. X X X

Noel Paton (Vic.) Pty Ltd . . . . . . .. .. X X X

J. Walter Thompson Australia Pty Ltd (Melbourne) .. .. X X X

U .S.P. Benson (Vic.) Pty Ltd . . .. . . .. X X X

Aldwych Advertising Pty Ltd (Melbourne) . . . . .. X X X

Advertising Associates Pty Ltd (Melbourne) . . .. .. X X X

Berry Currie Advertising (Vic.) Pty Ltd . . .. .. X X X

John Clemenger (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd .. . . . . . . X X X

Coudrey Campbell Ewald Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. . . .. X X X

Murray Evans Advertising Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. . . . . X X X

Grant Advertising Australia Pty Ltd (Melb.) .. .. .. X X X

Foote Cone & Belding Pty Ltd (Melbourne) . . .. . . X X X

Fred Luxton Advertising Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. .. . . X X X

Max L. Gosewinckel & Associates Pty Ltd (Melbourne) .. X X X

Hansen Rubensohn McCann Erickson Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. X X X

Warwick Advertising Pty Ltd (Sydney) . . .. .. X X X

Carden Advertising Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. .. . . X X ..

J . Walter Thompson Aust. Pty Ltd (Sydney) . . .. .. X X ..

Arthur L. Rosebery Advertising Pty Ltd (Sydney) .. .. X .. . .

Mullins Clarke & Ralph (N.S.W.) Pty Ltd . . .. . . X .. . .

Grant Advertising Aust. Pty Ltd (Sydney) . . .. .. . . X X

O'Brien Advertising (Vic.) Pty Ltd .. . . .. . . . . X X

Castle Jackson Advertising Pty Ltd (Melbourne) .. .. .. . . X

Handbury Advertising Pty Ltd (Melbourne) . . .. . . .. . . X

(2) Apart from small amounts of special fees , the Commonwealth does not make payments directly to advertising agencies. They are remunerated almost entirely from commissions derived from the media and material production firms . These earnings are pooled and distributed by the Commonwealth Advertising Council. The Council has informed me that it does not normally disclose details of commission allocations

to individual agencies which are regarded as confidential business information.

55

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Question No . 5432

16 May 1972

Mr GRASSBY asked the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice: (1) Will he list the individual amounts received by each of the 46 advertising agencies categorised in the answer to question No. 5056 (Hansard, 21st March 1972, page 947)

as substantially Australian owned and substantially foreign owned, out of the $6,473,753 paid by the Commonwealth during the year ended 30th June 1971. (2) Is he now in a position to evaluate the policy guidelines of authorities of the United States of America and Canada on the placement of national advertising which he undertook to examine and report upon in answer to a previous question.

Mr HOWSON-The answer to the honourable member's question is as follows: (1) The amount of $6,473,753 represented, for the most part, payments to the media and material production firms. It included special fees paid to advertising agencies totalling less than $3,000. The main remuneration for advertising agencies engaged on Commonwealth work is obtained from commissions allowed them by

the media and material production firms. The Commonwealth Advertising Council receives these commissions and allocates them to the agencies concerned according to a formula it has established. The Council has informed me that it does not normally disclose details of its commission allocations to individual agencies which are regarded as confidential

business information. (2) The information sought has not yet been received.

56

THE SENATE

17 May 1972

Senator DOUGLAS McCLELLAND-! direct a question to the Minister rep­ resenting the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts. By way of preface I refer the Minister to an answer he gave me yesterday in reply to a question on notice concerning the remuneration paid to advertising agencies employed from

time to time by the Commonwealth. The Minister will recall that he told me yesterday that the agencies were remunerated almost entirely from commissions derived from the media and material production firms; and that the earnings were pooled and distributed by the Commonwealth Advertising Council which then does not disclose

details of commission allocations to individual agencies. Is the Minister prepared to remind the Commonwealth Advertising Council that the finance so disbursed is public finance raised by taxpayers and that this Parliament is entitled to know the fullest details of the manner in which public finance is handled and appropriated?

Will the Minister demand that details of this expenditure be made available to the Parliament?

Senator GREENWOOD-Implicit in all that the honourable senator asks are many assumptions, some of them of some importance. The appropriate course is to refer this question, and the honourable senator's demand, to the Minister I represent so that he can look at the whole matter and make such response as he thinks is

appropriate.

57

Dear Senator McClelland,

MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, ABORIGINES AND THE ARTS 13 June 1972

On 17 May 1972 you directed a question without notice to Senator Greenwood relating to payments of commissions on Commonwealth advertising to individual advertising agencies.

I am informed that payments of commission to advertising agencies are determined and made by media proprietors, not by the Commonwealth. Conditions of payment are laid down in 'Rules Governing Accreditation of Advertising Agencies' issued by the Media Council of Australia.

No payment of public moneys over and above the amounts paid for media space or time is involved and I do not believe therefore that it would be reasonable to demand that details of commission transactions between media, agencies and the Commonwealth Advertising Council be made public.

Senator Douglas McClelland, Commonwealth Parliament Offices, Martin Place, Sydney, N.S.W. 2000

58

Yours sincerely, ALAN HULME Acting Minister

Dear Senator Davidson,

ATIORNEY-GENERAL, CANBERRA 24 October 1972

I enclose for the information of the Members of the Committee a further reply which the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has supplied in response to the questions asked at the meeting of the Committee on 17 October 1972, by Senator Mulvihill regarding Commonwealth advertising.

Senator G. S. Davidson, Chairman, Senate Estimates Committee B, Parliament House,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

59

Yours sincerely, !VOR J. GREENWOOD

My Dear Minister,

MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, ABORIGINES AND THE ARTS 24 October 1972

Further to my letter of 19 October 1972 in regard to questions raised by some members of Senate Estimates Committee B on 17 October 1972, I am now able to provide the information sought by Senator Mulvihill concerning Commonwealth advertising.

Senator Mulvihill asked to be supplied with a list of all the foreign language newspapers 'that were used when the Department of Health indicated the concession rates for people in low income groups for HCF and MBF coverage.' I assume that this refers to advertisements placed in April this year in relation to the 'Subsidised Health Benefits Plan' and I attach a list of the foreign newspapers used on that occasion.

He also asked 'whether, in the last 3 years, any Commonwealth Department has advertised in Century newspaper'. I am advised that there has been no such advertising.

Finally, Senator Mulvihill asked 'do we ever have a look at the bureau of audit figures?' I am advised that circulation figures are indeed studied and taken into account and that the following conditions must be met in order for a newspaper to become eligible for allocation of Commonwealth advertising-

( a) it must have been published regularly for not less than 13 weeks; and (b) there must be provided to the Commonwealth Advertising Branch either a certificate of the Audit Bureau of Circulations or a Statutory Declaration setting out the average net paid circulation per issue over a 3 months' period.

Senator the Honourable . I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

60

Yours sincerely, PETER HOWSON

FOREIGN LANGUAGE PUBLICATIONS USED FOR COMMONWEALTH DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH 'SUBSIDISED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN' ADVERTISING IN APRIL 1972

ITALIAN La Fiamma II Globo Settegiorni

II Campanile

GERMAN Die Woche Neue Welt

GREEK Hellenic Herald Neos Kosmos Phos

Vema The Torch New Country Athletic Echo

Grecian Post

SPANISH El Espanol Excelsior

HUNGARIAN Magyar Elet (Sydney) Magyar Elet (Melbourne)

FRENCH Le Courrier Australien

YUGOSLAV Novosti Yugoslav Aust. Journal

DUTCH Dutch Au.stralian Weekly Nederlands Maandblad Voor Australie Dutch Societies Courier

FINNISH Suomi

TURKISH Turk Sesi

CZECH Hlas Domova

RUSSIAN Unification

UKRAINIAN Ukrainian Settler

LITHUANIAN Musu Postage

LATVIAN Aust. Latvian News

YIDDISH Aust. Jewish News Sydney Jewish News

61

Estimates Committee B

Minutes of Proceedings

2332!17l'-1

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No.19

TUESDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 7.55 p.m.

2. REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972- 73 : The Resolution of the Senate of 14 September 1972 referring the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1972-73 to Estimates Committees for examination and report was reported to the Committee.

3. MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 14 September 1972 relating to alteration to the membership was reported to the Committee. Estimates Committee B, for the examination of 1972-73 Estimates, to consist of the following members-

Senators Bonner, Byrne, Davidson, Guilfoyle, Lawrie, McAuliffe, Jamei McClelland and Mulvihill.

4. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: On the motion of Senator Lawrie, Senator Davidson was elected Chairman of the Committee. Senator Davidson thereupon took the Chair.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT: Appearing: Senator the Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, accom­ panied by:

Mr H. T. Bennett, First Assistant Secretary, Executive Division B Mr G. J. Yuill, Senior Assistant Secretary, Executive Division B Mr N. E. Sainsbury, Senior Assistant Secretary, Management and Executive Services Division

Mr R. A. Jenkins, Director B Management Services Division Mr K. N. Geary, Senior Finance Officer Mr L. Curtis, Senior Assistant Secretary, Executive Division A Mr J. Q. Ewens, First Parliamentary Counsel

Mr K. Collings, Assistant Commissioner for Trade Practices Department of the Treasury-Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Operations Branch The Chairman called upon the following Divisions:

Divisions 130-145-Attorney-General's Department (Document A) Division 80S-Attorney-General's Department (Document B) ..

$

26,711,000 3,824,000

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Attorney-General's Department.

65

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.56 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Byrne, Davidson, Guilfoyle, Lawrie, McAuliffe, James McClelland and Mulvihill (8). Senators Georges and Wheeldon also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

66

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 20

TUESDAY, 10 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Davidson) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT: Appearing: Senator the Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, accom· panied by:

Australian Broadcasting Control Board: Mr J. A. McNamara, Secretary Mr B. J. Connolly, Assistant Secretary

Australian Broadcasting Commission: Mr P. Dorrian, Assistant General Manager Mr R. Gifford, Assistant Controller, Management Services (Finance) Mr D. Miley, Federal Director, Radio Programmes

Mr C. Dean, Acting Federal Director, Television Programmes

Australian Post Office: (i) For Broadcasting and Television Services and Wireless Telegraphy Services: Mr E. J. Higginbottom, Acting Senior Assistant Director-General

(Finance and Accounting) Mr L. D. Sebire, Supervising Engineer Television Mr A. B. French, Senior Finance Officer Mr H. S. Young, Controller, Regulatory and Licensing (ii) For Post Office Services:

Mr E. J. Higginbottom, Acting Senior Assistant Director-General (Finance and Accounting) Mr D. M. Coleman, Assistant Director-General, Telecommunications Division

Mr F. L. C. Taylor, Assistant Director-General, Engineering Works Division Mr J. R. Smith, Deputy Assistant Director-General (Commercial), Postal Services Division Mr G. P. Hudson, Acting Deputy Assistant Director-General, Finance Mr J. W. Trist, Acting Deputy Assistant Director-General, Special

Investigations

67

Department of the Treasury: Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Operations Branch. The Chairman called on Divisions 405 and 406 (Document A), $81,059,000 and Divisions 870-873 (Document B), $297,120,000. The following Divisions were considered by the Committee:

Division 405-Sub-division !-Australian Broadcasting Control Board Division 872-Sub-division 4 Division 405-Sub-division 2, Australian Broadcasing Com­

mission Division 872-Sub-division 2, Australian Broadcasting Com­ mission Division 405-Sub-division 3, Technical and Other Services,

Postmaster-General's Department Division 872-Sub-division I, Technical and Other Services, Postmaster-General's Department Division 406-Sub-division I, Wireless Telegraphy Services,

Postmaster-General's Department Division 873-Wireless Telegraphy Services, Postmaster-General's Department

$

2,248,000 155,000

63,500,000

4,900,000

13,699,000

3,822,000

1,612,000

243,000

The Chairman called on the Postmaster-General's Department, Division 870-Capital Works and Services, Item 01, for expenditure under the Post and Tele­ graph Act (for payment to the Post Office Trust Account)-$288,000,000. This item was considered by the Committee.

3. DELIBERATIVE MEETING: For the purpose of considering the adequacy of explanations submitted for the expenditure and receipts of the Post Office the Committee went into deliberative session. It was resolved after debate-that, in order that this Committee may adequately discharge the function entrusted to it by the Senate the Attorney-General be requested to obtain from the Postmaster-General not later than Tuesday 17 October next, full explanatory notes of the estimated receipts and expenditure of all Post Office operations (including the Capital Programme) for the year 1972-73.

4. RESUMPTION OF PUBLIC HEARINGS: The Committee resumed its public hearings and informed the Attorney-General of the resolution passed during the deliberative meeting. Further consideration of the Estimates for the Postmaster-General's Department was deferred until a time to be fixed.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION: Appearing: Senator the Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, accom­ panied by:

Mr S. J. Dempsey, First Assistant Secretary, Planning, Research and Infor­ mation Division Mr A. L. Barclay, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. T. McElroy, Director, Finance and General Services, Management

Services Branch Mr A. W. Burt, Finance Officer, Management Services Branch

68

Mr R. U. Metcalfe, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr E. L. Charles, Assistant Secretary, Intergration Branch Mr W. E. Law, Director, Migrant Accommodation Section

Department of the Treasury: Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch. The Chairman called on Divisions 330-332 (Document A) $68,024,000 and Divisions 850-852 (Document B) $1,015,000.

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Immigration concluded.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.11 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

7. ATIENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Byrne, Davidson, Guilfoyle, Lawrie, McAuliffe, James McClelland and Mulvihill (8). Senator Wilkinson also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

69

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITfEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 21

TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.17 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Davidson) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES: Appearing: Senator the Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, ac­ companied by:

Mr R. G. Williams, First Assistant Director-General (Management) Mr J. McMahon, Director (Planning and Research) Mr K. T. Kimball, Assistant Director-General Operations Mr C. Calvert, Director (Finance) Mr R. C. Kaiser, Director (Rehabilitation) Mr A.M. Menere, Director (Handicapped Persons) Mr J. A. Lucas, Director (Aged Persons Homes)

Department of the Treasury-Mr R. J. Gray, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations, Accounting and Supply Division. The Chairman called on Division 500 (Document A) $61,565,000 and Divisions

900-901 (Document B) $890,000. Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Social Services concluded.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, ABORIGINES AND THE ARTS: Appearing: Senator The Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, ac­ companied by:

Mr R.N. Townsend, Deputy Secretary Mr J.D. Le Gassick, Assistant Secretary, Arts Branch Mr H. J. Higgs, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Environment Division Mr L.A. J. Malone, Director, Establishments and Finance Branch Mr B.S. Wisener, Finance Officer, Establishments and Finance Branch Mr J. Martin-Jones, Executive Officer, Australian Film and Television

School, Iqterim Council

70

Mr K. J. Farnham, Assistant Executive Officer, Australian Council for the Arts Mr J. P. Dunner, Director, Commonwealth Archives Office Mr J. Manea, Officer-in-Charge, Repository Management, Commonwealth

Archives Office Mr N. M. Boyle, Assistant Controller, Australian Government Publishing Service Mr M. Woodcock, Finance Officer, Australian Government Publishing

Service Mr W. R. Lancaster, Director, Australian War Memorial Mr B. G. Dexter, Director, Office of Aboriginal Affairs Mr K. C. Martin, Executive Officer, Office of Aboriginal Affairs Mr D. R. Sheppard, Executive Officer, Australian Institute of Aboriginal

Studies Mr V. T. Stacey, Executive Officer, Australian Film Development Corporation Mr W. D. Richardson, Acting National Librarian Mr G. E. Clark, Director, Management Services, National Library

Department of Works-Senator Wright, Minister for Works. The Chairman called on Divisions 245-257 (Document A) $43,411 ,000 and Division 828 (Document B) $1,432,600. The Committee having concluded its consideration of Divisions 245-257 pre­

ceeded to consider the ];')roposed expenditure under Division 828 Capital Works and Services, $1,432,600.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10 . 15 p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

5. ATTENDANCE : The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Byrne, Davidson, Guilfoyle, Lawrie, McAuliffe, James McClelland and Mulvihill (8). Senators Douglas McClelland, McLaren and Milliner also took part in the

Committee's proceedings.

71

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 22

THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.35 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Davidson) took the chair.

2. FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPEN­ DITURE FOR THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT: Appearing: Senator the Hon. I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., Attorney-General, accom­ panied by:

Australian Post Office: Mr E. J. Higginbottom, Acting Senior Assistant Director-General (Finance and Accounting)

Mr D. M. Coleman, Assistant Director-General, Telecommunications Division

Mr F. L. C. Taylor, Senior Assistant Director-General, Engineering Works Division

Mr J. R. Smith, Deputy Assistant Director-General (Commercial), Postal Services Division

Mr G. P. Hudson, Acting Deputy Assistant Director-General, Finance

Mr A. B. French, Acting Chief Finance Officer (Finance and Accounting)

Mr L. F. Smith, Acting Assistant Director-General, Support Services Engin-eering Works Division

Mr J. J. Murphy, Controller, Special Investigations, Industrial Relations Branch

Department of the Treasury: Mr A. M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer

The Chairman called on Division 870-Sub-division 01, for expenditure under the Post and Telegraph Act (for payment to the Post Office Trust Account), $288,000,000. The estimated expenditure and receipts being considered by the Committee and the time fixed for the re-assembly of the Senate having being reached the officers of the Postmaster-General's Department were discharged from attendance.

72

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT .OF THE ENVIRONMENT, ABORIGINES AND THE ARTS: The Attorney-General, Senator I. J. Greenwood, Q.C., submitted replies to questions asked by members of the Committee during the previous meeting relating to the expenditure of the Department of the Environment,

Aborigines and the Arts. The Committee concluded its examination of the proposed expenditure for the Department of the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.08 p.m. until Tuesday, 24 October 1972 at 10.00 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Byrne, Davidson, Guilfoyle, Lawrie, McAuliffe, James McClelland and Mulvihill (8) . Senators Milliner, Prowse and Wilkinson also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

73

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 23

TUESDAY, 24 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.00 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Davidson) took the Chair.

2. REPORT: The Chairman presented a draft report for the consideration of the Committee. It was resolved: That the report be agreed to with amendments. Discussion ensued on the presentation of the report and the debate on the Appro­ priation Bills for 1972-73.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 a.m.

4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Davidson, J. McClelland and Mulvihill (4). CONFIRMED

74

GORDON S. DAVIDSON Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its report to the Senate. On 14 September 1972, the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for the year 1972-73 relating to the following Departments: Works

Foreign Affairs Labour and National Service Education and Science External Territories

Housing. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Works and officers of the Departments concerned. A copy of the Hansard report of the evidence is tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with the Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1972-73 and the Appropriation

Bill (No. 2) 1972-73. Subsequent to the hearing of evidence and in accordance with undertakings given by the Minister for Works during the hearings, additional information was forwarded to the Committee in reply to certain questions asked during the proceedings. Copies of these replies are attached as an Appendix to the Report.

During the examination of the Estimates for the Department of Education and Science, it came to the Cttmmittee's attention that what the Committee considered was an exorbitant sum had been contracted for the cleaning of the Nhulunbuy school in the Northern Territory. The Committee understands that this contract is now

being re-negotiated and further understands that the Joint Committee of Public Accounts is inquiring into the circumstances surrounding the agreement to the contract. The Committee was also informed by officers of the Department that action has been taken to prevent a future recurrence of such an incident. The Department also promised to forward a document to the Committee setting out, amongst other

things, the new procedures which have been instituted to correct the possibility of the recurrence of such a situation. In the light of the assurance given and in view of the fact that the Joint Committee of Public Accounts is pursuing the matter more fully, the Committee is prepared to leave the matter in abeyance until such time as the Committee receives the explanation from the Department and/or as Parliament receives a full report from the Joint

Committee of Public Accounts. The Committee also draws the attention of the Senate to the fact that works under­ taken by statutory bodies such as the National Capital Development Commission do not come under the scrutiny of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Public Works. The Committee does not consider this avoidance of Parliamentary scrutiny

of major public works desirable either in the national or the States interests. The Committee expresses its thanks to the Minister for Works and the officers for the full and frank explanations which were given to their questioning and also the most comprehensive written explanations of the relevant Departments' Estimates

which had been circulated to the Committee members in good time prior to the sittings of the Committee. The comprehensive nature of these documents assisted to no small degree in the speedy consideration by the Committee of the Departmental Estimates for which it was responsible.

77

J.P. SIM Chairman

Estimates Committee C

Appendix

MINISTER

Copy for Minister's Private Secretary 13/8/195

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

During the examination of the Department of Works Estimates for 1972-73 by Senate Estimates Committee C on 21 September 1972, Senator McLaren asked the following question (page 79 of Hansard Estimates Committees A and C refer): 'Page 194 of the explanations to the estimates for this Department shows

$12,000 for Welfare roads-day to day patrolling, grading, attention to drainage and so on. How much of that $12,000 would be spent on grading of the road to Umbakumba Welfare Settlement on Groote Eylandt?'

The following is the suggested answer to this question: Of the amount of $12,000 estimated to be required in 1972-73 for the day to day patrolling, grading, attention to drainage, etc. on Welfare Roads an amount of $6,500 is expected to be spent on roads at Umbakumba on Groote

Eylandt. At present grading and minor gravelling work is in hand and this is estimated to cost $2,000. It is expected that two more similar treatments will be required before and after the wet season, making the total expenditure approximately

$6,500.

2 October 1972

81

A. S. REIHER Director-General

72/78 The Secretary, Senate Estimates Committee C Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

METRIC CONVERSION BOARD 18-24 Chandros Street, St Leonards N.S.W. 2065 Telephone 439 2088 P.O. Box 587 Crows Nest 4 October 1972

1972-73 Estimates: Division 231-Metric Conversion Board

Further to the question asked by Senator McLaren (ref: Estimates Committee C 21 September 1972), the name of the firm which maintains mailing lists for the Metric Conversion Board and distributes pre-addressed material is the Australian Mailing Service Pty Ltd, 14 Mars Road, Lane Cove, N.S.W.

82

A. F. A. HARPER Executive Member

Dear Senator Wright,

MINISTER FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 4 October 1972

You will recall that during the discussion in the Senate on the estimates of CSIRO, ·senator Primmer asked if CSIRO was undertaking much work on nasal granuloma. It was not possible to give the answer immediately, but a promise was given that information would be provided as soon as possible.

I attach for you a copy of a brief statement provided to me by CSIRO which you might be good enough to pass on to Senator Primmer.

Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

83

Yours sincerely, MALCOLM FRASER

NASAL GRANULOMA

Nasal granuloma is a chronic condition of mucous membranes in the nasal cavity­ of beef and dairy cattle. It has occurred sporadically in Australia for about 35 years. It was first described in Victoria and is still important, especially in the Murray valley, although attacks have occurred in most other States. Affected cattle have 'snotty' noses with small circular yellow lumps in the nostril. They try to allay the irritation by scratching the inside of their nostrils, often on sticks, which sometimes break off inside the nostril and lead to further irritation.

Investigations by CSIRO in the 1960s were concerned mainly with the possibility of the disease being caused by a virus. A number of viruses were isolated from affected animals but it was clear that these organisms were not the sole cause of the disease, if at all. Pressure from other work led the Division of Animal Health to reduce the level of its activity on nasal granuloma to monitoring a number of herds to see if particular 'family lines' of cattle were more susceptible than others. This work is continuing.

The cause of the disease is not known and although it is almost certainly difficult to establish, until it is discovered no reliable treatment is likely to be developed. Some attention is being given at present to the possibility of the disease being an allergy although its cause is not clear.

CSIRO hopes that in the near future when some current work is completed, that the possibility of allergic factors leading to the disease can be examined in depth.

The fact that the disease occurs as outbreaks which often disappear almost as quickly as they emerge, adds support to the suspicion that some form of allergy is involved.

84

Estimates Committee C

of Proceedings

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITrEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No.17

THURSDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 11.45 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Sim) took the Chair.

2. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the particulars of proposed expenditure and stated that, pursuant to the Order of the Senate of 14 September 1972, the Committee would consider the particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the service of the year ending 30 June 1973 relating to the following departmental estimates:

Document• Page Division Department Amount

No.

s

A 106-110 580-584 Works .. .. .. . . 87,382,000

B 18-19 925 Works .. .. .. . . 103,884,000

A 127 764 Civil Defence-Repairs and Main-

tenance .. .. .. 13,800

A 127 765 Civil Defence-Buildings, Works,

Fittings and Furniture .. 8,000

A 40-44 270-272 Foreign Affairs .. .. .. 105,040,000

B 8 835 Foreign Affairs . . .. .. 2,980,000

A 65-67 370-374 Labour and National Service .. 26,004,000

B 12 860-862 Labour and National Service .. 931,000

A 125-126 755 Administration of the National Ser-

vice Act . . .. .. 2,153,900

A 126 756 Post Discharge Resettlement Train-

ing .. .. .. . . 7,000

A 126 757 National Service-Vocational Train-

ing-Technical Training .. 1,194,000

A 126 758 Commonwealth Hostels Limited-

Buildings, Works and Equipment -Exmouth Guest House .. 4,300

A 23-29 230-242 Education and Science .. .. 188,055,000

B 6-7 825-827 Education and Science .. .. 17,168,000

A 125 750 National Service-Vocational Train-

ing-University Courses .. 845,000

A 36-39 260-268 External Territories .. .. 131,754,000

B 7 832 External Territories .. .. 3,093,000

A 50-51 310 Housing . . .. .. . . 7,989,000

B 9 845 Housing . . .. .. .. 70,203,000

• Document A-'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1973'. • Document B-'Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the ,.,ar ending 30 June 1973'.

Ordered-That consideration of estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs be postponed until after the consideration of additional estimates relating to the Department of Education and Science.

87

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF WORKS: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of Works :

Mr A. S. Reiher, Director-General Mr W. D. Hamilton, Deputy Assistant Director-General (Finance), Head Office Mr E. B. Tate, Assistant Director (Management Services), Australian Capital

Territory Branch

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. The Chairman called on Divisions 580-584, Department of Works, $87,382,000, (Document A).

The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on Estimates for the Department of Works 1972-73.

Discussion ensued on the Department of Works generally.

The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 580-Administrative Division 582-Furniture and Fittings Division 584-Repairs and Maintenance

Document B Division 925-Capital Works and Services

Document A Division 764-Civil Defence-Repairs and Maintenance Division 765-Civil Defence-Buildings, Works, Fittings and

$

50,966,000 5,416,000 31,000,000>

103,884,000

13,800

Furniture 8,000

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Works concluded .

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR AND NATIONAL SERVICE: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of Labour and National Service:

Mr K. C. McKenzie, First Assistant Secretary (General) Mr B. H. Tregillis, First Assistent Secretary (Industrial Relations Operations) Mr A. D. Fogarty, First Assistant Secretary (Employment and Training) Mr V. J. White, Assistant Secretary (Training) Mr D. M. Halpin, Assistant Secretary (Management Services) Mr J. T. Ryder, Chief Finance Officer.

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on Estimates for the Department of Labour and National Service 1972-73.

88

"The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 370-Administrative Division 372-Public Service Arbitrator's Office Division 374-Commonwealth Hostels Limited

Document B Division 860-Capital Works and Services Division 861-Payments to or for the States Division 862-0ther Services

Document A Division ?55-Administration of the National Service Act Division 756-Post Discharge Resettlement Training Division 757-National Service-Vocational Training-Tech­

nical Training Division ?58-Commonwealth Hostels Limited-Buildings, Works and Equipment-Exmouth Guest House ..

$

25,812,000 118,000 74,000

353,000 218,000 360,000

2,153,900 7,000

1,194,000

4,300

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Labour and National Service concluded .

.5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND SCIENCE: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of Education and Science:

Mr H. K. Coughlan, Senior Assistant Secretary Mr D. M. Morrison, Senior Assistant Secretary Mr J. P. Lonergan, Senior Assistant Secretary Mr C. A. Webster, Director Mr B. P. Peck, Acting Director

Mr R. F. Ward, Director Mr K. N. Jones, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. A. Foskett, Assistant Secretary Mr C. J. Lenihan, Assistant Secretary

Mr R. W. Viney, Finance Manager, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization Dr J. A. Allen, Executive Officer, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization Mr S. Lattimore, Assistant Secretary, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial

Research Organization Mr A. F. Gurnett-Smith, Secretary (Agricultural and Biological Sciences), Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization Mr H. Kwong, Budget Officer, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial

Research Organization Mr L. P. Fricker, Secretary, Australian Commission on Advanced Education Mr W. F. Koller, Head of Project Management Section, Australian Com­ mission on Advanced Education

89

Mr J. K. Kaye, Secretary, Australian Universities Commission Mr R. M. Gillett, Operations Officer, Australian Universities Commission Mr A. F. A. Harper, Executive Member, Metric Conversion Board Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on Estimates for the Department of Education and Science 1972-73. The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 230-Administrative Division 231-Metric Conversion Board Division 232-Educational Services Division 234-Anglo-Australian Telescope Board Division 235-Commonwealth Teaching Service Division 236-Australian Universities Commission .. Division 237-Australian Commission on Advanced Education Division 238-The Australian National University .• Division 239-Canberra College of Advanced Education Division 240-National Standards Commission

$

70,408,500 996,200 23,553,500 282,000

368,000 327,000· 406,000· 31,940,000

3,355,000 235,800·

The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on Estimates for the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organ­ ization 1972-73. The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 241-Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Re­ search Organization .. Division 242-Australian Institute of Marine Science

Document B Division 825-Capital Works and Services Division 826-Payments to or for the States Division 827-0ther Services Document A

Division 750-National Service-Vocational Training-Uni-

$

56,100,000 83,000

11,293,000 5,775,000 100,000

versity Courses 845,000

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Education and Science concluded. And it being 9.26 p.m.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned until a day and hour to be fixed.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Buttfield, Carrick, Davidson, Little, Milliner, Primmer and Sim (7). Senators Georges, McAuliffe, McLaren and Webster also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

90

J.P. SIM Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITfEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

TIIURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.08 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Sim) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of Foreign Affairs:

Mr A. L. Fogg, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr P. C. J. Curtis, Assistant Secretary (Personnel Branch) Mr R. G. Spratt, Assistant Secretary (Aid Branch) Mr J.P. Walshe, Acting Assistant Secretary (Services Branch)

Mr L. E. Phillips, representing the Assistant Secretary (Information and Cultural Relations Branch) Mr C. Booth, Acting for the Director, Overseas Property Section Mr R. E. Johns, Director, Finance Section Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on

Estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs 1972-73. The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered: Document A Division 270--Administrative

Division 272-0verseas Service Document B

$

77,060,100 27,979,900

Division 835-Capital Works and Services 2,980,000

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs concluded.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL TERRITORIES: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of External Territories.

Mr J. H. Greenwell, First Assistant Secretary (Government and Legal Affairs) Mr A. W. Richardson, Assistant Secretary (Mining and Industrial Development) Mr L. W. Temby, Assistant Secretary (Finance) Mr M. H. Jolliffe, Acting Assistant Secretary (Public Employment) Mr H. V. Clarke, Director, Information and Publicity, Department of the

Treasury Mr A. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

91

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. An explanatory statement from the Minister for Works (Senator Wright) was distributed to the members of the Committee and by leave was incorporated in Hansard. The following particulars of proposed expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 260-Administrative Division 262-Christmas Island Division 263-Cocos (Keeling) Islands Division 264-Norfolk Island Division 266-Papua New Guinea-Miscellaneous Services Division 268-Australian School of Pacific Administration Document B

$

3,916,300 564,400 528,800 180,000 126,193,000

371,500

Division 832-Capital Works and Services 3,093,000

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of External Territories concluded.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1972-73-DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Wright, Minister for Works, accompanied by the following officers of the Department of Housing:

Mr K. D. A. Medbury, Director of War Service Homes and First Assistant Secretary (Management Services) Mr T. J. Kelly, First Assistant Secretary (Operations) Dr R. Mendelsohn, First Assistant Secretary (Policy and Research) Mr R. C. O'Neil, Director (Management Services) Mr J. B. Elliott, Assistant Director (Finance). Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. The Minister for Works (Senator Wright) made a statement to the Committee on Estimates for the Department of Housing 1972-73.

Document A Division 31 o.:-Administrative Document B Division 845-Capital Works and Services

$

7,989,000

70,203,000

Consideration of proposed expenditure for the Department of Housing concluded. The minister and members of the press and public withdrew

5. DRAFT REPORT: The Committee considered the form and content of the draft Report to be considered at the next meeting.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at five minutes to four p.m. until a day and hour to be fixed.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Buttfield, Bishop, Carrick, Davidson, Little, Milliner and Sim (7).

92

J.P. SIM Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 19

THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1972

I. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.30 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Sim) took the Chair.

2. MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on 21 September and 12 October were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE : The Committee considered a draft Report to the Senate. Resolved: That the Report be adopted.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.36 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The!following members of the Committee were present :

Senators Carrick, Milliner and Sim (3).

93

J. P. SIM

Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

23325 / 72-4

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Report to the Senate. 2. On 14 September 1972 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the year 1972-73 relating to the following Departments: Civil Aviation

Trade and Industry National Development Shipping and Transport Customs and Excise

Interior

3. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received satisfactory and detailed explanation of them from the Minister for Civil Aviation, Senator Cotton and officers of the Departments concerned. Subsequent to the hearing of evidence and in accordance with undertakings given by the Minister during the hearings, further information was forwarded to the Committee in reply to specific

questions raised during the proceedings. Copies of the documents containing this further information are included as an Appendix to this Report.

4. Following the consideration of the Estimates, the Committee makes the following observations: (a) The Committee is of the opinion that, where practicable, Departments should Table Annual Reports for the information of the Committee and

Parliament generally. In a number of cases where Reports are normally presented to Parliament the effective examination by the Committee of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was hampered by a delay in Tabling. When it is intended that Tabling of an Annual Report should take place,

the Committee is of the opinion that such Tabling should take place prior to the consideration of the Estimates for the most effective and purposeful examination of the Departmental Estimates concerned. (b) The Committee expresses concern with the practice of many Departments which appropriate large amounts under the Item of 'Incidental and other

Expenditure'. The Committee is of the opinion that in many instances the allocation of funds within such Items could be more satisfactorily specified as separate Items. While the Committee recognises the difficulties associated with this proposal it feels that the break-up of many of these Items is desirable

and, by so doing, would ensure a greater efficiency in Departmental estimating and Parliamentary scrutiny of the Estimates.

5. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings is tabled with this Report for the inform­ ation of the Senate, together with the Hansard reports of the Evidence.

6. The Committee records its appreciation of the explanations provided and the co-operation it received from the Minister for Civil Aviation, Senator Cotton. This particularly applies to the preparation and speedy supply of more detailed information sought by Senators.

October 1972

97

C. L. LAUCKE Chairman

Estimates Committee D

Appendix

23325/ 72-5

Dear Senator Laucke,

MINISTER FOR CIVIL AVIATION Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 10 October 1972

During the hearing of the Department of Civil Aviation Estimates for 1972-73 by Senate Estimates Committee D, which was adjourned on 26 September 1972 I undertook to provide you with further information on a number of subjects. The required information is now submitted on the attached statements. I trust that they are helpful to you.

Senator C. L. Laucke, The Chairman, Senate Estimates Committee D, Parliament House,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 ·

101

Yours sincerely, ROBERT COTION

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D ESTIMATES OF DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL AVIATION 1972-73 Charges for Use of Computer Time Senator Millner asked whether the Department charged clients for the use of computer time (page 140 of Hansard).

The Department currently operates 2 computers-a GE225 which commenced operations in 1966 and the ICL System 4/70 which was installed in June 1970. It has been general policy for Departments with computers not to recover costs from other Commonwealth Departments for the use of computer time. The Joint Parlia­ mentary Public Accounts Committee has examined this situation on 2 occasions and their acceptance was included in their 55th and I22nd Reports. Outside organ­ izations are, however, charged at commercial rates.

Outside organizations have hired time on the GE225 and have been charged at the .rate of $40 per hour. The time involved, however, has been minimal and the revenue received over the 6 year period is less than $300. Time has not been sold to date on the ICL System 4/70, but if it does eventuate, the commercial cost will be in the vicinity of $250 per hour.

Costs incurred by the Department through the use of computer time by other Commonwealth Departments since I966 amount to approximately $700,000.

Annual Cost of Operating DCA Aircraft Senator Townley asked for the comparative costs of operating DCA aircraft for the previous 2 years (page I 37 of Hansard) .

Aircraft Maintenance Fuel

Item

• Salaries and allowances of Flight Crew and Administrative Staff . . Buildings and Equipment Maintenance . .

1970-71

$

790,173 130,854 352,964 44,262

Totals . . J 1,318.253

1971 - 72

$

944,435 151,148 404,466 47,438

1,547,487

• The costs include the salaries and allowances of DCA pilots employed full time in the Flying Unit. They do not include costs of pilots not employed in the Flying Unit itself e.g. Examiners and Air Safety Inspectors who may use the aircraft from time to time.

Division 170/2/04-Maps, logbooks and publications Senator Wriedt requested a breakdown of the estimated expenditure for I 70/2/04-Maps, logbooks and publications-for 1972-73. (page 142 of Hansard).

Aeronautical Information Publications (Manuals and Charts) Air Navigation Orders and Airworthiness Directives . . Annual Report, DCA News, Aviation Safety Digest Technical Library publications and training manuals . . Salable documents

Miscellaneous

102

I

Expenditure I Expenditure I 1970-71 1971- 72 Expenditure

1972- 73

$

114,000 36,000 54,000 62,000 30,000

4,000

300,000

$

145,000 75,000 54,000 82,000 38,000

6,000

400,000

$

155,000 51 ,000 69,000 109,000

40,000 6,000

430,000

Search and Rescue Operations

Senator Wriedt asked for the amounts paid to individual airline operators engaged in search and rescue operations during 1971-72. (Page 143 of Hansard.)

Expenditure totalling $29 ,179 was incurred in 1971-72 for the participation of 84 airline and other operators in search and rescue operations. Payments in excess of $100 were made to the following operators.

Queensland $ South Australia/Northern Territory

Bush Pilots Airways Ltd North Queensland Aero Club Starcke Air Charter

238 Royal Flying Doctor Service 563 Rossair Pty Ltd

135 Ord Air Charter Pty Ltd

Country Air Service Pty Ltd 163 Saatas Pty Ltd

Baxter Diving and Marine Co.

Western Australia New South Wales Summerland Aero Club Barola Pty Ltd 226 Wittenoom Tourist Centre Aviation Enterprises

Rex Aviation Ltd

180 Murchison Air Services Pty Ltd 216 Trans-West Air Charter Pty Ltd 270 Executive Air West Pty Ltd

Victoria/Tasmania Victorian Civil Ambulance Tasmanian Aero Club 537

202

Schutt Aircraft Academy Pty Ltd 856

2,040 707

.. 286

Pty

Aust. Air Charterers Pty Ltd Airchart Flying Services Executive Airlines Pty Ltd Campbell Hicks Airways

Ltd

Civil Flying School Pty Ltd Convere Pty Ltd Royal Victorian Aero Club TAA

. . 1,251

825 856 442 210

Clemens Sporting Car Services 495

Hancock and Wright . .

Papua/ New/Guinea Territory Airlines Pty Ltd Ansett Airlines of P.N.G. Catholic Mission, Yule Island

Macair Charters Pty Ltd TAA Missionary Aviation Fellow­ ship

Aerial Tours Pty Ltd .. Helicopter Transport Co. Pty Ltd Carpentaria Explorations Pty

Ltd

Crowley Airways Pty Ltd

Site for Second Sydney Airport

$

399 170 353 480 3,731

264 154 1,245 480

116

1,229 1,519 1,107 351

350

108 248

192

509 574

Senator Wriedt asked for a list of the tenders received from consultants for the task of carrying-out a cost/benefit evaluation of alternate proposals for the siting and role of a second airport in Sydney. (Page 142 of Hansard.)

A total of twenty (20) tenders were received for this project, 14 from Australian firms and 6 from overseas.

The successful one was R . Travers Morgan and Partners of London.

Other tenders received were from-!. Tracey Burnstrom and Dudley (Aust.) Pty Ltd, Sydney, N .S.W. 2 . The Ralph Parsons Co. Pty Ltd, Sydney, N.S.W.

103

3. P.E. Consulting Group (Aust.) Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Vic.

4. Metra Consulting Group Ltd, London

5. P.A. Management Consultants Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Vic.

6. D. G. McPhee, D. Rudd and Partners, Brisbane, Qld

7. Bechtel Pacific Corp. Ltd, Melbourne, Vic.

8. P.G. Pak-Poy and Associates, Adelaide, S.A.

9. Kinnaird Hill de Rohan and Young Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Vic.

10. The Economist Intelligence Unit (Aust.) Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Vic.

11. Northrop Airport Development Corp., Virginia, U.S.A.

12. Burmot (Aust.) Pty Ltd, St Leonards, N .S.W.

13. Aeroport de Paris, Paris, France

14. NV 'NACO', Netherlands Airport Consultants, The Hague, Netherlands

15. Crooks Mitchell Peacock Stewart Pty Ltd, Chatswood, N.S.W.

16. W. S. Atkins and Associates Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Vic .

17. Rankine and Hill, North Sydney, N.S.W.

18. W. D. Scott and Co. Pty Ltd, North Sydney, N .S.W.

19. International Airport Planning Consortium, Middlesex, U.K.

Building Regulations near Hobart Airport

Senator Townley sought the Department's policy on the eiection of new buildings in close proximity to Hobart Airport (Page 139 of Hansard).

The Department's responsibility in regard to this question is to produce a Noise Exposure Forecast (NEF) which is made available to local authorities to use in their land-use planning programme. The ultimate aim of this service is to have zoning compatible with airport operations.

The NEF for Hobart, based on future types of aircraft, new glide paths and other predictable developments, was produced for 1980. This was used by the Hobart Noise Abatement Committee (comprised of Departmental and Local Authority personnel) to produce a recommended zoning map for the Hobart Town Planning Authority.

The joint Commonwealth/State Tas manian Airfields Committee is also considering the most appropriate zoning to be adopted in the vicinity of Hobart Airport and it has been assisted by proposals put forward by the Hobart Noise Abatement Com­ mittee. It is expected that the proposals of that Committee will form the basis of the recommendations of the Tasmanian Airfields Committee's report which should be available shortly.

104

Increased Number of Clerks Employed during 1971-72

Senator Jessop requested detailed information on the rate of increase of Clerks employed by the Department during 1971 - 72 (Page 130 of Hansard).

The comparative figures for the number of clerks employed at 30. 6 . 71 and 30. 6. 72, as shown in the Explanatory Notes, indicates an increase of 302 over that period. The comparative figures for miscellaneous administrative, however, show a decrease of 200. The reason for this apparent anomaly, and unfortunately it was not high­

lighted in either the Explanatory Notes or when the question was asked during the Committee hearing, is the change in interpreting the classification of some adminis­ trative personnel. In the figures given for 30. 6. 71 , such staff as finance officers , research officers, personnel inspectors, training officers and property officers were categorized as miscellaneous administrative, but in the 30.6. 72 statistics, they have been categorized as clerks. The increase in the number of clerks employed by the

D epartment during 1971 - 72 is therefore only 102 (approximately 7 per cent), which is in line with the overall staff growth rate.

Salaries for Flying Officers

Senator W riedt asked under what Award were salaries for flying officers determined (Page 143 of Hansard).

Salaries for Examiners of Airmen and Airways Surveyors are covered in Public Service Arbitrator's Determination No. 62 of 1949, as varied, in favour of the Civil Air Operations Officers Association. The current Determination is a consent one which followed negotiations between the Public Service Board, the Department and

the CAOOA

In brief, the Determination generally provides for the payment to Examiners of Airmen and Airways Surveyor staff at market rate salaries, based on the aircraft type endorsement required to perform particular functions.

105

DEPARTMENT OF CUSTOMS AND EXCISE

Dear Senator,

Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 Telephone 73 0414 Reply to 'The Comptroller-General' Quote CG72/7660

11 October 1972

During the examination of the Estimates of the Department of Customs and Excise by Senate Estimates Committee D, I indicated that I would supply the Com­ mittee with additional information on 2 questions. I should be grateful if you would pass the enclosed statements to the Committee.

Senator The Hon. H. C. Cotton, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

Yours faithfully, J. E. WALSH

First Assistant Comptroller-General (Management and Technical Services)

106

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Department of Customs and Excise Hearing 10 November 1972 Senator Bishop's question : Employment statistics for the Department are as follows :

Permanent Temporary Exempt

June 1971 . . .. . . . . 4,461 220 58

June 1972 . . . . .. . . 4,658 188 56

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Department of Customs and Excise Hearing 10 November 1972 Senator Webster's question: Car hire rates for Holden four-door sedan (State Metropolitan rates)­ Department of Supply: $12 . 50 per week plus 5c per mile

Private 'Rent-a-Car': $51.00 per week plus lOc per mile

Total

4,739 4,902

Note: The Department of Supply rates include the supply of petrol. Petrol is extra under private 'rent-a-car' agreements.

107

23325/72-6

Dear Senator Laucke,

MINISTER FOR CIVIL AVIATION Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 12 October 1972

Senate Estimates Committee D Estimates of Department of Civil Aviation 1972-73

At the Committee's second hearing of the Department's Estimates on 10 October 1972, Senator Wriedt requested information about the installation of a DME beacon on the west coast of Tasmania. The installation of a transistorised distance measuring equipment (DME) at Strahan Airport, on the west coast of Tasmania is now almost complete and is expected to be ready for flight testing and commissioning in late November, 1972. The total estimated cost of the installation is $32,000.

Senator C. L. Laucke, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

108

Yours sincerely, ROBERT COTTON

Estimates Committee D

of ProceedUngs

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

TUESDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Laucke) took the Chair.

2. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITIEE: The Chairman made a statement re­ lating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in the examination of particulars of proposed expenditure.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE:

Pursuant to the Order of Reference of the Senate of 14 September 1972, the Committee commenced consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending 30 June 1973 and the Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1973,

relating to the following estimates:

Document* Page

Division

Department Amount No. s

A 18- 20 170-172 Civil Aviation . . . . .. 101,588,000

B 5 810 Civil Aviation . . .. .. 59,900,000

A 97-100 520-530t Trade and Industry .. .. 45,137,000

B 16 910-911 Trade and Industry . . .. 547,700

A 99 524 Australian Tourist Commission .. 3,000,000

A 68-72 390-402 National Development . . .. 43,549,000

B 12 865 National Development . . .. 19,297,000

A 89- 92 480-490 Shipping and Transport . . .. 129,275,000

B 14-15 890-892 Shipping and Transport .. .. 30,252,000

A 21-22 210 Customs and Excise . . .. 38,877,000

B 6 820 Customs and Excise . . .. 1,975,000

A 56-64 350- 368 Interior .. . . . . . . 142,036,000

B 9- 11 855 Interior . . . . .. . . 113,215,000

A 125 752 Civil Defence .. .. .. 925,000

* Document A-'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1973' . * Document B-'Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1973'. t Less $3,000,000-Division 524-Australian Touri st Commission.

111

The Chairman called on Divisions 170-172, Department of Civil Aviation. Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accom­ panied by Mr G . R. Woodward, Assistant Director-General (Finance), Depart­ ment of Civil Aviation, and Mr H . S. Griffiths, Acting Director of Financial

Studies and Assistance, Department of Civil Aviation.

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch.

Paper: Senator Cotton submitted the following Paper: Department of Civil Aviation-Estimates of E:x:penditure and Receipts 1972-73 -Explanatory Notes. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered by the Com­ mittee :

Division 170--Administrative and Operational-Sub-division !-Salaries and payments in the nature of salary $64,595,500 Sub-division 2 being considered by the Committee.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.00 p.m. till a day and hour to be fixed.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present : Senator Laucke (Chairman), Senators Hannan, Jessop, Townley, Webster and Wriedt.

Senators McLaren and Milliner also took!Part in the Committee's proceedings.

112

C. L. LAUCKE Chairman

THE SENATE

.ESTlMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

TUESDAY, 10 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Laucke) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL AVIATION RESUMED: Appearing: Senator the Honourable R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accompanied by: ·

Mr G. R. Woodward, Assistant Director-General (Finance); and Mr H . S. Griffiths, Acting Director of Financial Studies and Assistance, Depart­ ment of Civil Aviation.

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch. Senator Cotton presented replies to questions asked by Senators at the meeting held on 27 September 1972. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 170-Administrative and Operational Division 172-Development of Civil Aviation

Document B Division 810-Capital Works and Services

$

96,926,000 4,662,000

59,900,000

Consideration of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Civil Aviation concluded.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Appearing: Senator the Honourable R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accompanied by:

Mr E. J. Lewin, Director, Finance & Accounts Management Services Branch; Mr R. A. Daly, Principal Project Officer, Policy Secretariat; MrS. J. Maliphant, Assistant Secretary, Exports Promotion Division; Mr L. Stroud, Director, Tourism Branch;

Mr I . J. Swan, Director, Trade Commissioner Branch, Mr J. Rowland, Assistant Secretary, Export Services Division, Department of Trade and Industry;

113

Mr R. G. Robertson, Chief Executive Officer, Tariff Board; Mr E. Ryan, Executive Officer, Australian Industrial Research and Development Grants Board; and Mr N. C. Evers, Deputy General Manager Australian Tourist Commission.

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch.

Paper: Senator Cotton submitted the following Paper: Department of Trade and Industry-Estimates of Expenditure and Explanatory Notes 1972-73.

The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A $

Division 520-Administrative 16,470,000

Division 522-Tariff Board 2,423,600

Division 524-Australian Tourist Commission 3,000,000

Division 526-Australian Industrial Research and Development Grants Board 14,167,000

Division 530-Trade Commissioner Service 9,076,400

Document B Division 910-Capital Works and Services 297,700

Division 911-Payments to or for the States 250,000

Consideration of Proposed Expenditure . for the Department of Industry and Trade concluded.

4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Appearing: _Senator the Honourable R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accomapnied by:

Mr R. H. J. Thompson, Assistant Secretary (Management Services); Mr A. I. McCutchan, First Assistant Secretary, Energy and Water Division; Mr K. R. Harding, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Minerals and Forests Policy Division ; Mr M. J. Nicholson, Finance Officer; Mr E. R. Smith, Assistant Chief Geophysicist, Subsidy Section, Petroleum

Exploration Branch, Bureau of Mineral Resources, Department of National Development; Mr A. D . Thomas, Deputy Head, Development Group; Mr A. J. Moulding, Director of Finance, Australian Atomic Energy Commission; Mr A. W. Murray, Secretary ; Mr F. J. Embrey, Chief Accountant, Joint Coal Board; Mr W. Woodward, Chief Finance Officer, Snowy Mountains Hydro-electric

Authority; and Mr R. W. Bradley, Manager Administration, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation.

114

Treasury Official: Mr A. M . Finch.

Paper: Senator Cotton submitted the following Paper: Department of National Development-Estimates 1972- 73-Explanatory Notes. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 390-Administrative Division 392-Northern Division Division 394-Division of National Mapping Division 396-Bureau of Mineral Resources Division 398-Forestry and Timber Bureau

Division 400- Joint Coal Board .. Division 402-Australian Atomic Energy Commission

Document B Division 865-Capital Works and Services

$

3,518,500 575,800 4,613,000 19,240,000

2,058,100 556,600 12,987,000

19,297,000

Consideration of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of National Develop­ ment concluded.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF CUSTOMS AND EXCISE: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R . C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accom­ panied by:

Mr J. E. Walsh, First Assistant Comptroller-General (Management and Technical Services); Mr G. Sheen, Assistant Comptroller-General (Port Administration); Mr D. Campbell, Assistant Comptroller-General (Appraisements); Mr R. Whitelaw, Assistant Comptroller-General (Revenue) ; Mr R. Carmody, Assistant Comptroller-General (Import Control);

Mr D . Marshall, Assistant Comptroller-General (Tariff); Mr A. Luckman, Assistant Comptroller-General (Inland Services); Mr D . Roche, Assistant Comptroller-General (Management Services); Mr V. Montgomery, Assistant Comptroller-General (By-law); and

Mr A. Dunning, Director (Appraisements).

Treasury Official: Mr A. M. Finch.

Paper: Senator Cotton presented the following Paper: Department of Customs and Excise-Notes on Estimates 1972-73.

The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A $

Division 210-Administrative 38,877,000

Document B Division 820-Capital Works and Services 1,975,000

Consideration of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Customs and Excise concluded.

115

6. ,CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR: Appearing: Senator the Hon. R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation, accom- panied by: · ·

Department of the Interior-Mr D. M. Lalor, Acting Assistant Secretary (Finance and Supply);. Mr J. H. Marshall, Assistant Secretary (Commercial and Transport Opera-tions); Mr B. Darke, Assistant Secretary (A.C.T. Transport and Traffic Policy); Mr G. L. Mansfield, Assistant Secretary (N.T. Economic Services); Mr G. E. Pettit, Acting Assistant Secretary (N.T. Mining Industries); Mr J. Mailath, Acting Assistant Secretary (N.T. Primary Industries); Mr G. N. Steele, Assistant Secretary (N.T. Lands and Urban Development); Mr J. B. Machin, Assistant Secretary (N.T. Welfare and Social Services); Mr J. S. Brigg, Assistant Secretary (N. T. Government and Community Affairs); Mr A. T. Bath, Assistant Director Management (Bureau of Meteorology); Mr W. S. Brooks, Assistant Director (News and Information Bureau); Mr P. Rowe, Executive Officer (Electoral Branch); Mr R. Bale, Director (Civil Defence); Mr W. D. Kennedy, (Surveyor-General); Mr J. T. Davies, Director (A.C.T. Land Co-ordination); Mr N. Broadwood, Director (Information and Public Relations); Mr J. M. Herner, Director (Welfare); Mr T. F. Hopkinson, Director (Programming and Projects); Mr R. C. Burroughs, Acting Director (Expenditure and , Costing); Mr B. H. Coughlin, Director (N.T. Finance); Mr R. M. Smeaton, Acting Senior Inspector (Personnel & Services); Mr E. P. O'Brien, Executive Officer (Housing Branch); Mr L. W. Ryan, Executive Officer (City Parks Administration); Mr J. Browne, Executive Officer (A.C.T. Police Administration); and Mr C. S. Hamilton, Acting Finance Officer (Budgeting and Works Program­

ming).

The National Capital Development Commission was also present. Mr G. C. Shannon, Senior Assistant Secretary; Mr K. A. Myers, Business Manager; and Mr K. J. Curtis, Principal Executive Officer. Paper: Senator Cotton presented the following Paper:

Department of the Interior-Explanations to Estimates 1972-73. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 350-Administration Division 351-State and Electorate Offices of Ministers and Members of Parliament-Staff and Services Division 352-Conveyance of Members of Parliament and others

116

19,431,000

1,383,000 1,800,000

Division 354-Rent Division 357-Electoral Branch Division 358-Commonwealth Bureau of Metorology Division 360-News and Information Bureau

Division 362-Australian Capital Territory Services Division 363-Australian Capital Territory Police .. Division 364---National Capital Development Commission Division 366-Northem Territory Legislative Council

Division 368-Northem Territory Services Division 764---Civil Defence-Repairs and Maintenance Division 765-Civil Defence-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture

Document B Division 855-Capital Works and Services

$

17,537,000 6,090,000 20,441 ,000 4,990,000

18,508,700 3,863,900 3,420,000 211 ,400 44,360,000

13,800

8,000

113,215,000

Consideration of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of the Interior concluded.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.11 p.m. till a day and hour to be fixed.

8. ATIENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present : Senator Laucke (Chairman), Senators Hannan, Jessop, Townley, Webster and Wriedt. Senators Maunsell and McLaren also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

117

C. L. LAUCKE Chairman of the Committee

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 19

THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12 . 35 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Laucke) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SHIPPING AND TRANSPORT: Appearing: Senator the R. C. Cotton, Minister for Civil Aviation,

accompanied by: Mr G. Unkles, First Assistant Secretary, Coastal Services Division ; Mr K. J. Cosgrove, First Assistant Secretary, Land Transport Policy Division ; Mr T. M. Williams, First Assistant Secretary, Marine Standards Division; Mr E. S. Clarke; First Assistant Secretary, Shipbuilding Division; . Mr C. W. M. Freeland, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Sea Transport Policy

·Division; ·

Dr J. H. E. Taplin, Director, Bureau of Transport Economics; Mr R. N. ,T;:t.ylpr, Assistant Secretary, Rail Transport and Special Projects Branch; - · · .. ; ·

' Mr K . A. Muclon, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch; Mr E. H. Ballard, Controller (Finance); Mr J. G. Meehan, Secretary and Director of Finance, Australian National Line; Mr R. F. McCormack, Secretary, Commonwealth Bureau of Roads ; and MrS. Bolam, Works Officer, Commonwealth Railways.

Treasury Official: Mr C. J. Louttit. Paper: Senator Cotton submitted the following paper: Department of Shipping and Transport-Estimates! of Revenue and Expendi­ ture 1972-73-Explanatory Notes. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were considered:

Document A Division 480-Administrative Division 482- Commonwealth Bureau of Roads Division 486--Shipbuilding Division Division 490-Commonwealth Rail,ways

118

$

13,549,000 952,000 88,092,000 26,682,000

Document B Division 890--:-Capital Works and Services Division 891-Payments to or for the States Division 892-0ther Services Consideration of Proposed Expenditure for the Transport concluded.

$

24,913,000 5,089,000 250,000

Department of Shipping and

3. MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on 27 September and 10 October 1972 were read and confirmed.

4. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman presented a Draft Report for the Committee's consideration. The Draft Report was agreed to, without amendment.

5. ADJOURNMENT : The Committee adjourned at 4.05 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator Laucke (Chairman), Senators Bishop, Jessop, Townley and Wriedt. Senators McLaren and Maunsell also took part in the Committee's proceedings.

119

C. L. LAUCKE Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

1. Estimates Committee E has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

2. On 14 September 1972 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending 30 June 1973, and the Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the Year Ending 30 June 1973 , relating to the following Departments :

Department of Air Department of Primary Industry Department of the Army Repatriation Department Department of the Navy Department of Supply 3. The Committee has considered these estimates of expenditure and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Air and officers of the Departments

concerned . The Committee records its appreciation of the explanations of the estimates contained in the answers given before the Committee and in the explanatory memor­ anda prepared by the Departments and circulated to Senators prior to the sittings of the Committee.

4. The Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee are included in this Report and the Hansard report of the evidence given before the Committee is tabled herewith for the information of the Senate. 5. The Committee observes that certain divisions of proposed expenditure relating

to the Defence Services, particularly those concerned with the acquisition of equipment are not wholly intelligible unless the substantial expenditure on the same purposes of loan moneys under the various Loan (Defence) Acts is considered. The expenditure ofloan moneys is not referred to the Estimates Committees. This Committee questions

whether such expenditures should be so referred. 6. Similarly, the proposed expenditure related to several Departments is greatly supplemented by Special Appropriations made under various Acts of Parliament, which do not come under the annual scrutiny of the Senate or its Estimates Com­

mi ttees. 7. Each of the 3 Services Departments have in their annual estimates an item headed: Housing for Servicemen- Advances to States. While the expenditure for this purpose is appropriated annually, the terms and conditions under which the money is advanced are laid down by certain Acts of the Parliament which, again, do

not come under the annual review of the Senate or the Estimates Committees.

19 October 1972

123

J. J. WEBSTER

Chairman

Estimates Committee E

of Proceedings

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMl\flTTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 12

THURSDAY, 28 SEPTEMBER 1972

1. MEETING : The Committee met in the Senate Chamber at 12.30 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Webster) took the Chair.

2. CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT: The Chairman made an opening statement concerning the membership and operati:on of the Committee, and the particulars of proposed expenditure to be examined pursuant to the order of the Senate of 14 September 1972, Yiz.:

Document* Page Division Department Amount No. $

A 111, 120--121 690--717 Air . . . . .. . . 296,908,000

A 75- 77 410-414 Primary Industry . . .. .. 57,510,000

B 13 874-876 Primary -Industry .. .. .. 12,184,000

A 126 760 National Service-Rural Occu-

· - pations-Reestablishment Loans

and Vocational Training .. 434,000

A til; 117-119 660--688 Army . . . . .. .. 448,915,000

A 86-88 460-466 Repatriation . . .. .. 409,126,000

B 14 885 Repatriation . . ' .. . . 1,932,000

A 114-I16,111 630--657 Navy .. . . .. . . 305,388,000

A 122-124,111 720--749 Supply .. .. . . . . 122,882,000

B 16 905 Supply .. .. . . . . 399,000

A 96 510 Antarctic Division .. .. 2,822,000

• Document A-'Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1973'. • Document B-'Particulars of Proposed Provision for Certain Expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1973'.

3. DEPARTMENT OF AIR: Appearing: . Senator the Hon. T. C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C., Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr M. J. Madden, Assistant Secretary (Finance) ; Mr H. Pearlman, Chief Executive Officer (Budgets and Costing); Mr L D. McLeod,

Director of Budgets (B),; Department of Air; and Mr A. M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division, Department of the Treasury. The Minister made a statement concerning the responsibilities of the Department of Air.

127

The following Particulars of Proposed expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A Division 690-Royal Australian Air Force Division 692-Civil Personnel Division 694-Administrative Expenses and General Services Division 696-Forces Overseas Division 698-Aircraft and Other Equipment-Repair and

overhaul Division 700-Equipment and Stores Division 702-Aircraft and Associated Initial Equipment-Purchase, Manufacture and Lease Division 70S-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings Division 706-Housing for Servicemen-Advances to States Division 707-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings Division 709-National Capital Development Commission Division 710-Rent Division 716-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 717-Repairs and Maintenance Consideration concluded.

4. DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY:

$

118,491,500 20,394,500 23,498,000 10,046,000

14,063,000 57,347,000

15,984,000 Nil

5,596,000 353,000 Nil 4,925,000 15,300,000 11,000,000

Appearing: Senator the Hon. T. C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C., Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr J. G. Rainbow, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch; Mr C. M. Beer, Director, Finance and General Services; Mr A. G. Bollen, Assistant Secretary; Mr J. R. Smith, Assistant Secretary; Mr H . G. McConnell, Assistant Secretary; Dr R. N. Farquhar, Assistant Secretary; Mr J. Carney, Acting Assistant Secretary; Mr A. J. Bennett, Assistant Secretary; Mr G. E. Fewster, Assistant Secretary; Mr W. J. Bettenay, Acting Assistant Secretary; Mr J. F. O'Bryan, Assistant Secretary; Mr L. R. Kentwell, First Assistant Secretary; Mr A. E. Wallace, First Assistant Secretary; Mr L. z. Jelink, Chief Marketing Officer; Mr N. D. Honan, First Assistant Secretary; Mr R. W. Forster, Land Settlement Officer, Department of Primary Industry; and Mr A. M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Department of the Treasury. The Minister made a statement concerning the responsibilities of the Department of Primary Industry, and submitted the following paper :

Department of Primary Industry-Functions. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A Division 410-Administrative Division 412-Administration of the Commerce {Trade De­ scriptions) Act Division 414-Bureau of Agricultural Economics Division 760-National Service-Rural Occupations-Re­

establishment Loans and Vocational Training

128

$

40,894,000

14,045,000 2,571,000

434,000

Document B Division 874-Capital Works and Services Division 875-Payments to or for the States Division 876-0ther Services Consideration concluded.

5. DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY:

$

1,000,000 10,434,000 750,000

Appearing: Senator the Hon. T . C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C., Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr J. W. Nunn, First Assistant Secretary (Finance and Logistics) ; Mr K . W. Major, First Assistant Secretary (Establishments and General), Depart­ ment of the Army; and Mr A. M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and

Supply Division, Department of the Treasury. The following particulars of proposed expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A Division 660-Australian Military Forces .. Division 662-Civil Personnel Division 664-Administrative Expenses and General Services Division 666-Forces Overseas ..

Division 668-Arms and Equipment-Repairs and Mainten-ance Division 670-Arms, Armament, and Equipment Division 673-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 675-Repairs and Maintenance . .

Division 682-Rent Division 683-Housing for Servicemen-Advances to States Division 684-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings Division 685-Rent

Division 687-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 688-Repairs and Maintenance Consideration concluded.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.55 p.m.

$

211,246,000 55,305,000 44,005,000 10,728,000

8,976,000 75,358,000 1,000,000 1,034,000

200,000 3,414,000 1,594,000 5,055,000 16,000,000 15,000,000

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Webster, Carrick, Cameron, Devitt, Hannan, Wilkinson and Young. Senators Sir Magnus Cormack, Davidson, Jessop, Little, McLaren, McManus Milliner, Negus, Primmer, Sim, Withers and Wriedt also attended.

129

J. J. WEBSTER

Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

l\flNUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 13

TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 1972

1. MEETING: The Committee met in the Senate Chamber at 2 . 15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Webster) took the Chair.

2. REPATRIATION DEPARTMENT: Appearing: Senator the Hon. T. C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C. Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr R. G. Kelly, First Assistant Commissioner (Management Services); Dr J. H . Hurt, Deputy Chief Director (Medical Services); Mr G. R. Cadd, First Assistant Commissioner (Benefits and Legislation); Mr C. A. Nettle, M.B.E., First Assistant Commissioner (Treatment), Repatriation Department; and Mr A. M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division,

Department of the Treasury. ·

The Minister submitted the following paper: Repatriation Department-functions. The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A $

Division 460-Administrative 20,800,000

Division 462-Repatriation Hospitals and other Institutions . . 42,410,000 Division 464-War and Service Pensions and Allowances 288,450,000 Division 466-0ther Repatriation Benefits 57,466,000

Document B Division 885-Capital Works and Services 1,932,000

Consideration concluded.

3. DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY: Appearing: Senator the Hon. T. C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C., Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr L. J. Murphy, Acting Assistant Secretary (Finance); Mr F. W. McConaghy, Acting Assistant Secretary (Civil Establishments); Mr R. D. Martin, Principal Executive Officer (Naval Personnel Division); Mr T. J. O'Connor, Director, Financial Programming and Estimates; Mr B. F. McDevitt, Assistant Director (Supply Administration); Mr G. Nicholls, Principal Executive Officer (Naval Technical Services), Department of the Navy; and Mr A.M. Finch, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division, Department of the Treasury.

130

The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A Division 630-Australian Naval Forces Division 632-Civil Personnel Division 634-Administrtive Expenses and General Services ..

Division 636-General Stores-HMA Ships, Fleet Auxili-aries and Naval Establishments Division 638-Ships, Aircraft, Machinery and Plant-Repair and Other Charges Division 640-Naval Construction Division 642-Aircraft and Associated Initial Equipment­

Purchase and Manufacture Division 644-Machinery and Plant for Naval Dockyards and Establishments Division 646-Defence Research and Development

Division 649- Recoverable Expenditure for Other Govern-ments Division 650-Housing for Servicemen-Advances to States Division 651-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings

Division 652-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings .. Division 654-Rent Division 656-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 657-Repairs and Maintenance . . Consideration concluded.

4. DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY:

$

81,606,000 54,166,000 17,323,000

63 ,035,000

19,580,000 25,394,000

11 ,679,000

3,538,000 224,000

727,000 2,807 ,000 Nil 409,000 3,100,000 17,000,000

4,800,000

Appearing: Senator the Hon. T. C. Drake-Brockman, D.F.C., Minister for Air, accompanied by Mr D. J. O'Connor, Deputy Secretary (Management and Supply); Mr K. McKnown, Assistant Secretary (Finance); Mr J. J. Mason, Director (Programmes and Estimates), Department of Supply; and Mr A. M. Finch,

Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division, Department of the Treasury. TheH ollowing Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

Document A Division 720-Administrative Division 722-Maintenance of Production Division 724-Storage Services ..

Division 729-Defence Research and Development Establish-ments Division 730-Working Capital Advances Division 732-Reserve Stocks Division 734-Vehicles and Equipment .. Division 735-Furniture Removals and Storage

Division 737-Machinery and Plant

131

$

19,824,000 7,268,000 3,241,000

47,374,000 1,050,000 1,054,000 4,163,000 7,530,000

8,557,000

Division 738-Production Development Division 739-Production Assistance Division 740-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 741-Repairs and Maintenance .. Division 745-Acquisition of Sites and Buildings .. Division 746-Rent Division 748-Buildings, Works, Fittings and Furniture Division 749-Repairs and Maintenance ..

Document B Division 905-Capital Works and Services

Document A Division 510-Antarctic Division

Consideration concluded.

$

6,944,000 5,762,000 125,000 580,000

65,000 645,000 5,300,000 3,400,000

399,000

2,822,000

The Minister and Departmental officers and members of the Press and public withdrew.

5. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee deliberated upon its Report to the Senate. The Chairman stated that a draft Report as agreed upon would be circulated to Senators for consideration and approval before presentation.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.55 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Webster, Cameron, Hannan, Wilkinson and Young. Senators Sir Magnus Cormack, Laucke, Maunsell, Milliner, Murphy, Townley and Withers also attended.

132

J. J. WEBSTER Chairman

Estimates Committee E

Appendix

COMMONWEALTH. OF AUSTRAUA

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

The Secretary, Senate Estimates Committee E, Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

9 October 1972

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

In the session of Senate Estimates Comntittee E on 28 September 1972, the following question was asked by Senator Devitt of the Department of Primary Industry: 'Might I have information indicating what has been the total cost of the

post-war service land settlement scheme and what has been recovered from the sale of properties which have been disposed of. 2. The following has been provided by the Department of Primary Industry:

Total Cost of War Service Land Settlement to the -Commonwealth

Expenditure .

Principal States_:_New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland Agent States-South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania Administrative Expenses .

Receipts Principal States-Recovery losses on advances Agent States-Repayments of Advances, interest, rent, State contribution towards excess costs, etc. . .

$'000 22,123 222,240 12,354

256,717

36

154,782

154,818

In addition, advances for repayment totalling $23,384,000 are still out­ standing. Sale of Surrendered Properties To date, there have been 99 surrendered holdings sold for a total amount of $1,906,021.

135

D.P. CLEARY Acting Assistant Secretary Management Services Branch

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA

The Secretary, Senate Estimates Committee E, Parliament House, Canberra

MINISTER FOR AIR Parliament House, Canberra, A.C.T. 2600 12 October 1972

On 28 September, Senator Wilkinson asked for details of the numbers of Royal Australian Air Force married quarters at Richmond and also about the number of personnel currently on the waiting list. The number of personnel currently on the waiting list at RAAF Base Richmond

is 321. Thus, even when the 85 houses due in from the 1971- 72 housing programme, together with the 107 proposed for authorisation in 1972-73, are received, there will still be a number of personnel at Richmond on the waiting list for a married quarter. I attach statement giving details of the number of married quarters at Richmond.

136

T. C. DRAKE-BROCKMAN Minister for Air

NUMBERS OF RAAF MARRIED QUARTERS AT RICHMOND, N.S.W.

1. Married Quarters held:

(a) Commonwealth owned 174

(b) State owned (Commonwealth State Housing Agreement) 656

2. Due-in from 1971-72 CSHA Programme

3. Proposed in 1972-73 CSHA Programme

Total Current and Proposed ..

23325/ 72

830

85

91 5

107

1,022