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SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E and F
Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1984-85
Presented and ordered to be printed 10, 15 and 28 M ay 1985
Parliamentary Paper No. 510/1985
Parliamentary Paper No. 510/1985
The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia
SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E and F
Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1984-85
May 1985
The Commonwealth Government Printer Canberra 1986
© Commonwealth of Australia 1986 ISSN 0729-6258 ISBN 0 644 04844 1
Printed by Authority by the Commonwealth Government Printer
1. Resolution of the Senate (v)
2. Membership of Committees (vi)
3. Estimates Committee A Report 3
Minutes of Proceedings 1985 28 March 1985 7
15 April 1985 9
4. Estimates Committee B Report 17
Minutes of Proceedings 1985 15 April 1985 (2 meetings) 23
5. Estimates Committee C Report 35
Minutes of Proceedings 1985 28 March 1985 43
15 April 1985 45
7 May 1985 55
6. Estimates Committee D Report 59
Minutes of Proceedings 1985 18 April 1985 (2 meetings) 73
23 April 1985 80
7 May 1985 82
9 May 1985 83
14 May 1985 84
15 May 1985 85
Second Report 89
Minutes of Proceedings 23 May 1985 93
28 May 1985 94
7. Estimates Committee E Report 97
Minutes of Proceedings 1985 16 April 1985 111
18 April 1985 (3 meetings) 113
7 May 1985 124
8. Estimates Committee F Report 129
Minutes of Proceedings 18 April 1985 133
CONTENTS PAGE
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RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED ON 27 MARCH 1985
ESTIMATES COMMITTEES - REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85: The Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Senator Gietzelt) , by leave, moved -(1) That the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expendi
ture for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1985 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Addi tional Expenditure in Respect of the year ending on 30 June 1985 be referred forthwith to Estimates Committees for examination and report.
(2) That the Committees consider Proposed Additional Expenditure in the Estimates Committee groupings agreed to by Resolution of the Senate of 22 February 1985*.
(3) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Friday, 10 May 1985.
*Estimates Committee Groups
Estimates Committee A Parliament Industry, Technology and Commerce Prime Minister and Cabinet Trade Science
Estimates Committee B Community Services Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Social Security Health
Estimates Committee C Finance Employment and Industrial Relations Treasury Primary Industry Communications
(v)
Estimates Committee D Education Housing and Construction Sport, Recreation and
Tourism Arts, Heritage and Environment Aboriginal Affairs
Estimates Committee E Resources and Energy Attorney-General Special Minister of State Foreign Affairs Defence
Estimates Committee F Veterans' Affairs Transport Aviation Territories Local Government and
Administrative Services
I
MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
Senator Robert Ray (Chairman) Senator Cook Senator Cooney Senator Hill Senator Jessop Senator Short
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
Senator Giles (Chairman) Senator Crowley Senator Elstob Senator Messner Senator Sheil Senator Walters
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
Senator Primmer (Chairman) Senator Boswell Senator Brownhill Senator Childs Senator Maguire Senator Parer
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Senator Reynolds (Chairman) Senator Aulich Senator Baume ^ Senator Colston Senator Puplick Senator Watson Senator Zakharov
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
Senator Colston ^ (Chairman) Senator Black Senator Sir John Carrick Senator MacGibbon ^ Senator McKiernan^ Senator Reynolds^ Senator Sibraa Senator Teague
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
Senator Georges (Chairman) Senator Hearn Senator Reid Senator Richardson Senator Townley Senator Vanstone
1. Appointed 16 April 1985 2. Discharged 16 April 1985 3. Appointed 16 April 1985
4. Appointed 16 April 1985 5. Discharged 16 April 1985 6. Discharged 16 April 1985
(vi)
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A REPORT TO THE SENATE
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.
1. On 27 March 1985 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of. Proposed Additional Expenditure for 1984-85, relating to the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce, the Department of Trade, the Department of Science, and the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet.
2. The Committee has considered the Additional Estimates of the Departments, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce (Senator the Hon. John Button), the Minister for Education (Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan), and officers of the Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and the Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the
Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1984-85 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1984-85.
3. While the Committee has no specific comments in relation to the Estimates examined it does wish to draw to the attention of the Senate two matters relating to its operations. The first concerns the inadequate notice given of the meeting
schedule for Estimates Committees, which resulted in difficulties for several members who had already committed themselves to attend other Committee meetings.
The second concern is that, once again, the latest Report of the Auditor-General was not available to the Committee but was, in fact, presented to Parliament the day after the Committee's hearings. The Committee is of the view that the Auditor-General's Report should be presented to Parliament at
least a week before Estimates Committees are scheduled to meet. It recommends that the Auditor-General ensure that in future his major reports are presented to Parliament as soon as possible after the relevant Particulars of Proposed Expenditure have been tabled and before Senate Estimates Committees are scheduled to meet.
4. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, the Minister for Education and the officers of the various departments and authorities who appeared before the Committee.
Robert Ray v '
Chairman
May 1985
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
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THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 1
THURSDAY, 28 MARCH 1985
1. MEETING
The Committee met in private session at 8.50 am.
2. RESOLUTIONS
Resolutions of the appointment of the Committee on 22 Feoruary 1985, and of the appointment of members to the Committee on 26 March 1985, were reported.
3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN
The Secretary called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Robert Ray was nominated by Senator Cook. There being no further nominations, Senator Robert Ray was declared elected and thereupon took the Chair.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85
The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate of 27 March 1985 referring the Particulars oT Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 to the Committee for trie following Departments:
Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet Department of Trade Department of Science
5. PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS
The Chairman advised the Committee that as there was no Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill for Additional Estimates this financial year, there was thus
no reference relating to the Parliamentary Departments to the Committee.
7.
6. MANNER OF EXAMINING THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES
The Committee agreed to proceed with the examination of Departmental estimates in the following order:
Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce Department of Trade Department of Science Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet.
7. ADJOURNMENT
The Committee adjourned at 9.05 am.
8. NEXT MEETING
The next meeting of the Committee will be at 2.15 pm on Monday, 15 April 1985.
9. ATTENDANCE
Senators Cook, Jessop, Robert Ray and Short.
Robert Ray Chairman
8.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 2
MONDAY, 15 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.30 p.m. The Chairman
(Senator Robert Ray) took the Chair.
2. PUBLICATION OF WRITTEN ANSWERS: The Committee agreed to
authorise the immediate publication of all written answers to
questions, subject to the Secretary drawing to the attention of
the Committee any answer which for any reason deserved closer
examination by the Committee.
3. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement
relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its
examination of the Additional Estimates of the Departments,
referred for its consideration: Industry, Technology and
Commerce; Trade; Science; Prime Minister and Cabinet.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE:
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for
Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following
officers:
Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce
Mr L. Jones, Assistant Secretary, Resources Management
Branch
Mr C. Vassarotti, Assistant Secretary, Barrier Policy
Branch
9.
Mr D. Smedley, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Division
Mr R. Hoppe, First Assistant Secretary, Executive Division
Mr A. Bain, First Assistant Secretary, Technology Division
Mr B . Cody, Assistant Secretary, Inland Services Branch
Dr J. Hagan, Assistant Secretary, Technology Programs
Branch
Industries Assistance Commission
Dr A.G. Cuthbertson, First Assistant Commissioner,
Inquiry Division No. 2
Mr A.J. Cahill, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch
Mr K.B. Mourant, Director, Management Operations Section
Department of Finance
P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
C.F. Law, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
The Minister made an opening statement.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 400, 404, 540
Division 921
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed
expenditure for the Department of Industry, Technology and
Commerce, subject to undertakings to provide additional
information to the Committee.
5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF TRADE:
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for
Education, accompanied by the following officers:
10.
Department of Trade
Mr A.J. McGoldrick, First Assistant Secretary, Management
Division
Mr R.P. Maxwell, First Assistant Secretary, Manufactures
Trade Division
Mr P. Connolly, First Assistant Secretary, Services Trade
and Export Facilitation Division
Mr G.L.V. Hooton, Principal Adviser, Minerals and Energy
Exports Division
Mr E.W. Exell, Director, Trade Commissioner Service
Ms M.J. Bennett, Assistant Secretary, Management Division
Mr D . Kenyon, Assistant Secretary, Agriculture and
Multilateral Policy Division
Mr F. Crawford, Assistant Secretary, Market Development
Division I
Mr J.B. Gregory, Assistant Secretary, Market Development
Division II
Mr S.P. Deady, Director, Economic Policy and Research
Division
Mr P. Flanagan, Director, Manufactures Trade Division
Mr D.F. Walsh, Acting Director (Administration and Policy)
Export Development Grants Board
Mr E. Hodge, Director, Office of New Zealand Relations
Department of Finance
P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
C.F. Law, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 640, 642, 644
Division 964
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed
sxpenditure for the Department of Trade, subject to undertakings
to provide additional information to the Committee.
11.
6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE:
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for
Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following
officers:
Department of Science
Mr A.H. Groube, Acting assistant Secretary, Resources
Management Branch
Mr R. Poole, Acting Director, Resource Planning Section
Mr J.A. Wharton, Acting Assistant Director, Resource
Budgeting
Ms P.S. Brooks, Finance Officer
Mr A. Nichols, Director, Technical Policy Liaison Section
Mr R. Moncur, Deputy Director, Antarctic Division
Mr P. Spehr, Assistant Director, Management, Bureau of
Meteorology
Ms B . Dixon, Canberra Liaison Officer (Bureau of
Meteorology)
Mr H.A. Wray, Finance Officer (National Standards
Commission)
Ms K. Adams, Executive Officer (National Standards
Commission)
Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
Mr I.L. Farrar, Manager (Budget)
Mr J.H. Payne, Chief Finance Officer (Budget)
Mr K.N. Bedford, Chief Finance Officer (Budget)
Mr R.A. Riches, Senior Finance Officer (Budget)
Department of Finance
P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
C.F. Law, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
12.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 540, 543, 544, 548
Division 945
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed
expenditure for the Department of Science.
7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET:
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for
Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following
officers:
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr J.G. Hinton, Acting First Assistant Secretary
Governor-General's Office
Mr D. Smith, Official Secretary
Wing Cdr. B. Espeland, Comptroller
Commonwealth Ombudsman's Office
Mr J.C. Jordan, Deputy Ombudsman
Mr B. Hugg, Executive Officer
Australian Science and Technology Council
Mr M. Lester, Acting Secretary
Mr P.H. Lambie, Administration Officer
Auditor-General's Office
Mr A.A. Taylor, First Assistant Auditor General Div. 'D '
Mr C.M. McPherson, Assistant Auditor General, Resource
Management and Developments Branch
Mr J.R. Riding-Hill, Chief Executive Officer, Conference
Administration Section
13.
Mr F.P. Campbell, Executive Officer, Finance and Accounts
Sub-Section
Public Service Board
Mr G.D. Carlos, Finance Officer
Department of Finance
P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
C.F. Law, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 500, 506, 508, 512, 513, 515, 516
Divisions 937, 940, 941
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed
expenditure for the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet,
subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the
Committee.
8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.25 p.m.
9. ATTENDANCE: Senators Robert Ray (Chairman), Cook, Jessop and
Short. Senators Archer, Boswell and Chaney also attended.
CONFIRMED:
Robert Ray Chairman
14.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to
the Senate.
1. On 27 March 1985 the Senate referred to the Committee the
Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the
Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1985, and Particulars
of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the
year ending on 30 June 1985, for the following Departments:
Department of Community Services
Department of Social Security
Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs
Department of Health
2. The Committee has considered the Additional Estimates and
has received explanations of them from the Minister for
Community Services, (Senator the Honourable Don Grimes) and
officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes
of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by
the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate
in connection with Appropriation Bill (No.3) 1984-85 and
Appropriation Bill (No.4) 1984-85.
Answers to questions which were deferred and are to be
subsequently given in writing will be tabled in the Senate
and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the
Committee's hearings.
17.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the
following matters arising from its consideration of the
Additional Estimates:
Auditor-General's Report
Various Estimates Committees have drawn attention to the
importance of the Auditor-General1s Reports upon audits,
examinations and inspections under the Audit Act, as a source of
information for proper examination of departmental estimates.*
The Report of the Auditor-General which contained the
results of audits generally completed as at 31 December 1984 was
tabled in the Senate on 16 April 1985. However, this Committee
concluded its examination of the relevant Departments on 15
April 1985.
The Committee reiterates the need to have the
Auditor-General's reports available for a reasonable time prior
to the examination of departmental estimates so that members of
the Committee and other Senators have adequate time to peruse
the reports and ask any relevant questions arising out of the
reports.
1. Estimates Committee A, April 1980 (PP 86/1980), Estimates
Committee C, October 1976 (PP 304/1976), October (PP
221/1977), Estimates Committee E, October 1981 (PP
263/1981).
18.
Departmental Witnesses
Estimates Committees have also commented regularly on the
level of seniority of departmental witnesses and the degree of
their expertise and familiarity with items under examination.
One long-term benefit of Estimates Committee hearings is the
opportunity that is provided for Senators to identify and meet
the most senior officers of the public service and statutory
authorities working in the areas of their special interest.
At the recent hearings two departments were represented by
the Secretary or Acting Secretary and the Committee considers
that it benefitted directly in its consideration of the
estimates of those departments.
However, the Committee considers that departments have a
responsibility to provide witnesses who are sufficiently expert
and are adequately briefed to provide answers immediately and
competently. In this respect the Committee considers that some
answers provided to questions directed to the proposed
expenditure of the newly created Australian Capital Territory
Health Authority (Department of Health-Divisions 329 and 881)
reflected inadequate briefing.
Delay in Providing Written Replies
Another matter of concern to the Committee is the undue
delay in receiving answers to questions and requests for
additional information put by Senators during the hearings.
At the time of presenting this report there are outstanding
a significant number of written replies.
The Committee gives notice that, in future, it will seek to
delay its report until all written replies are provided by the
relevant departments.
19.
Estimates Committees Timetable
Some difficulty was experienced by the Committee due to the
timing of Estimates Committee hearings.
Appropriation Bills Nos.3 and 4 were not presented until 27
March 1985. On the same day the Particulars of Proposed
Additional Expenditure were referred to the Estimates
Committees.
Explanatory Notes for 3 departments were tabled on 28 March,
the last sitting day before the scheduled meeting of this
Committee. The explanatory notes for one department were not
published until after members of the Committee had left
Canberra.
Only one clear sitting day was available for a preliminary
meeting, without departmental explanatory notes and also without
the Auditor-General1s Report.
The Committee suggests that, when the timetable is
determined for the next examination of the Particulars of
Proposed Additional Expenditure, consideration be given to a
more adequate advance notice of the proposed hearings. The
problems experienced could also be remedied by the earlier
presentation of Appropriation Bills Nos.3 and 4, or by making
the departmental explanatory notes available to the Senate prior
to the presentation of the Bills.
4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance
given by the Minister for Community Services (Senator the
Hon. Don Grimes) and officers of the departments concerned.
20.
Patricia J. Giles
Chairperson
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 1
MONDAY, 15 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING:
The Committee met in private session at 1.55 p.m. in Senate
Committee Room 7.
2. ELECTION:
The Secretary called for nominations for Chairman. Senator
Giles was nominated by Senator Elstob. There being no
further nominations, Senator Giles was declared elected.
Senator Giles thereupon took the Chair.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 AND
CERTAIN PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85
Senator Giles reported the entry in the Journals of the
Senate of 27 March 1985 referring to the Committee the
Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for 1984-85
and Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure for 1984-85 for
the following Departments:
Community Services;
Social Security;
Immigrations and Ethnic Affairs, and
Health.
23.
4. PUBLICATION OF WRITTEN REPLIES:
Senator Messner moved - That the Committee authorizes the
publication of departmental written replies to Senators who
are not members of Estimates Committee B, prior to the
replies being tabled in the Senate.
Question-put and passed.
5. ADJOURNMENT:
The Committee adjourned at 2.15 p.m.
6. ATTENDANCE:
The following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Giles (Chairperson)
Senator Elstob
Senator Shell ·
Senator Messner
Patricia J. Giles
Chairperson
24.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 2
MONDAY, 15 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING:
The Committee met at 2.31 p.m. in Senate Committee Rooms 1
and 2. Senator Giles, took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 AND
CERTAIN PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85:
Department of Community Services
In Attendance:
Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community
Services, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Community Services
Mr John R. Simpson, Acting First Assistant
Secretary, Planning Group
Mr Tony (A.C.) Kingdon, Acting First Assistant
Secretary, Subsidies Division
Ms Mary Murnane, Director,
Office of Child Care
Ms Mary Scott, Assistant Secretary,
Home & Community Care Branch
Ms Jeannine Bevan, Director, Secretariat
Branch
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Mr Ross Rohrlacb, Finance Co-ordinator
Department of Finance
Mr A.G. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting Policy
Division
Mr T. s. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting Policy
Division
Senator Giles called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Division 560 - Department of Community Services,
(Document A)
Division 846, 949 and 950 - Department of Community
Services, (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars
of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 and Certain
Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 for the Department
of Community Services, subject to an undertaking by the
Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 AND
CERTAIN PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85:
Department of Social Security
In Attendance:
Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community
Services, accompanied by the following officers:
26.
Department of Social Security
Mr C. McAlister, Acting National Manager
Mr J.M. Mahoney, First Assistant Secretary,
Resource Management Division
Mr J. McMahon, Acting First Assistant Secretary,
Benefits Delivery Division
Mr M. Douglas, Acting First Assistant Secretary,
Legislation and Review Division
Mr R. Elmes, Acting Assistant Secretary,
Human Resource Management Branch
Mr P. Wurfel, Director,
Finance Estimates Section
Mr A. Newton, Acting Director,
Human Resource Budgeting
Department of Finance
Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
Senator Giles called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Division 560 - Department of Social Security, (Document A)
Division 950 - Department of Social Security, (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars
of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 and Certain
Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 for the Department
of Social Security, subject to an undertaking by the
Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 AND
CERTAIN PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85:
Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs
In Attendance:
Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community
Services, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs
Mr L.B. Woodward, Acting Secretary
Mr I. McNeil, Acting First Assistant Secretary,
Management Division
Mr B. Strangio, Acting Assistant Secretary,
Finance and Services Branch
Ms S. Ingram, Assistant Secretary,
Settlement Branch
Mr P. Judd, Assistant Secretary,
Entry Regulation Branch
Mr T. Griffiths, Assistant Secretary,
Refugees and Humanitarian Branch
Mr D. Page, Acting Assistant Secretary,
Ethnic Affairs Branch
Mr J. Reynolds, Assistant Secretary,
ADP Branch
Mr A. Conheady, Chief Administrative Officer,
Australian institute of Multicultural Affairs
Department of Finance
Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting Policy
Division
28.
Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting Policy
Division
Senator Giles called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 360 and 365 - Department of Immigration and Ethnic
Affairs, (Document A)
Division 902 - Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs,
(Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars
of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 and Certain
Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 for the Department
of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, subject to an undertaking
by the Minister to provide additional information to the
Committee.
5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 AND
CERTAIN PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85
Department of Health
In Attendance:
Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community
Services, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Health
Mr B.V. McKay, Secretary
Mrs A.L. Kern, Deputy Secretary
Mr W.G. Turk, Assistant Secretary,
Finance Branch
29.
Dr B.P. Kean, Assistant Secretary,
International Health Branch
Mr S.K. Lees, Acting Director,
Finance
Dr N.A. Elvin, Chairman,
A.C.T. Health Authority
Mr G.D. Faichney, Assistant Commissioner,
Planning and Resource Management,
A.C.T. Health Authority
Mr M. Murray, Assistant General Manager,
Finance, Health Insurance Commission
Department of Finance
Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Managment and Accounting Policy
Division
Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer,
Financial Management and Accounting Policy
Division
Senator Giles called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Division 325 and 329 - Department of Health (Document A)
Division 881 to 883 - Department of Health (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars
of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 and Certain
Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85 for the Department
of Health, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to
provide additional information to the Committee.
6. ADJOURNMENT:
The Committee adjourned at 11.27 p.m.
30.
7. ATTENDANCE:
The following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Giles (Chairperson)
Senator Crowley
Senator Elstob
Senator Messner
Senator Sheil
Senator Walters
Senators Baume, Harradine, Puplick, Reid and Robertson
also attended.
CONFIRMED
Patricia J. Giles
Chairperson
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C REPORT TO THE SENATE
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 27 March, 1985, the Senate referred to the Committee the
Additional Estimates for the year ending 30 June 1985
relating to the following Departments:
Department of Finance
Department of the Treasury
Department of Employment and Industrial Relations
Department of Communications
Department of Primary Industry
2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has
received explanations of them from the Minister for Finance
and officers of the Departments concerned. A copy of the
Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence
taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the
Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1985
and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1985. Further written
explanations furnished by Departments will be presented
separately and printed in the Hansard record.
35.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the
following matters:
EXPLANATORY NOTES
Much comment has been made by Estimates Committees about the
need for a consistent approach by departments in style and
format of explanatory notes. The explanatory notes of the
Departments examined by the Committee on the whole complied with
these requirements. However the explanatory notes of the
Department of Employment and Industrial Relations included items
in which savings had been achieved amongst expenditure
explanations. The Committee appreciates the department's
initiative in including this information and indeed recommends
that other departments should provide it also. However the
information should be provided in a separate section of the
explanatory notes. The explanatory notes should be in the same
order as the divisions set out in the Appropriation Bills.
Departments should also ensure that information provided in
addition to expenditure explanations is clearly described. This
did not occur with the savings items mentioned above. The only
indication that these items were savings was the negative
indicator next to the dollar amounts for additional estimates
for 1984-85.
The Department of Communications also included a savings
item in its explanatory notes. The explanation for this saving
was included amongst expenditure explanations and in the same
format, it required careful reading of the notes to determine
that in fact no additional funds were required. To avoid
confusion the Committee recommends that savings explanations be
clearly identified as such and placed in a separate section of
the explanatory notes.
36.
DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
The estimates of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation
were previously examined by Estimates Committee A as part of the
Department of Communications. That Committee in its May 1984 and
October 1984 Reports to the Senate criticised the Corporation
for failure to properly inform the Committee. The Committee was
particularly critical of the attitude of the Corporation in not
providing information requested as a result of the May hearings
on a timely basis. Questions taken on notice at the hearing on 4
May 1984 were not received until the day of the next hearing on
30 May and questions taken on notice at that hearing were not
received until 9 July 1984. This was despite the Committee's
recommendation that the Senate re-affirm the following
principle, first adopted by the Senate in 1971 after criticisms
by Estimates Committee B of the then Commission's attitude to
Parliamentary scrutiny:
" That whilst it may be argued that Statutory
Authorities are not accountable through the responsible Minister of State to Parliament for day-to-day operations, they may be called to account by Parliament itself at any time and
that there are no areas of expenditure of public funds where these corporations have a discretion to withhold details or explanations from
Parliament or its Committees unless the
Parliament has expressly provided otherwise."
The Senate re-affirmed this principle on 4 June 1984.
Despite the re-affirmation Estimates Committee A again reported
in October 1984 that information provided at the hearing was
less than satisfactory and that additional information, whilst
provided promptly, was considered less than adequate.
37.
Given the background detailed above Estimates Committee C,
which is now responsible for examination of the estimates of the
Department of Communications, expected that the Corporation
would ensure that officers attending the hearing would be
adequately briefed, particularly on those matters which have
been examined previously by Estimates Committee A as well as
matters canvassed by the media. That this was not the case is
indicated by the number of questions which officers of the ABC
had to take on notice. This was of particular concern
considering the number of officers who attended the hearing.
Given the changes that are currently occurring to the structure
of the organisation and its accounting systems the Committee was
surprised that the Managing Director was not present to answer
questions on these matters. It is the Committee's view that if
the Managing Director had been present the number of questions
which had to be taken on notice could have been reduced
significantly. Examination of replies subsequently received by
the Committee to questions taken on notice appears only to
compound the problems being experienced in gaining information
necessary to enable the Committee to report to the Senate.
Whilst questions have been answered, the information contained
in many instances has not appeared adequate to the Committee.
Accordingly the Committee has written to the Corporation setting
out the matters concerned and seeking more detailed responses.
The Committee is particularly concerned about the problems
the Corporation is having in implementing an accrual accounting
system capable of providing financial information to managers.
The Committee is pleased that the Corporation is implementing
accrual accounting, including a balance sheet and profit and
loss statement, but is concerned that the preparation of these
accounts is being impeded by the absence of an assets register
and up to-date valuations of those assets. The state of the
assets register is such that the officers were unable to
identify for the Committee operating equipment more than five
years old. Without these records commercial accounts cannot be
prepared.
38.
For the Corporation to be truly accountable commercial accounts
are essential. Accordingly the Committee will be following
closely the Corporations implementation of these systems.
4. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance
given by the Minister and the officers.
(C.G. Primmer)
Chairman
39.
â
â¢
'
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
;
: r/'j:
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 1
THURSDAY 28 MARCH 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.47pm in
Senate Committee Room No.4.
2. MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: Journals of the Senate dated 26
March 1985 record that Senators Boswell, Brownhill, Childs,
Maguire, Parer and Primmer were appointed members of
Estimates Committee C.
3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Committee Secretary then called
for nominations for Chairman. Senator Primmer was nominated
by Senator Maguire. Senator Primmer thereupon took the
Chair.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85: The
Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate
dated 27 March 1985 referring Particulars of Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the following Departments:
Finance
Employment and Industrial Relations
Treasury
Primary Industry
Communications
5. MANNER OF EXAMINING THE ESTIMATES: The order of
consideration of Departments was to be decided by the
Chairman and Committee members advised accordingly.
43.
6. BRIEFING MATERIAL: A background brief on Departments to be
examined was to be circulated.
7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.57pm.
8. ATTENDANCE: Senators Brownhill, Childs, Maguire, Parer and
Primmer. Apologies were received from Senator Boswell.
CONFIRMED
(C.G. Primmer)
Chairman
44.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 2
MONDAY 15 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.25 p.m. The Chairman
(Senator Primmer) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman reported the
Resolution of the Senate of 27 March 1985 and outlined the
procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of
the Estimates.
3. RESOLUTION: The Committee resolved:
That, the Chairman be authorised to release
written answers to questions provided
subsequent to meetings of the Committee.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE IN RESPECT
OF THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1985 -DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE
5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh,
Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Finance:
Mr J.V. Galloway
Mr G.L. Smith
45.
Assistant Secretary
Chief Finance Officer
Rural and Commerce Branch
Mr C.L. Scholes Chief Finance Officer
Manufacturing, Mining and Energy
Branch
The Chairman called on the following divisions for
consideration:
The Committee concluded its considerations of the
particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the year
ending 30 June 1985.
6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE IN RESPECT
OF THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1985 -DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
7. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh,
Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of the Treasury:
Division
Division
304
866
(Document A)
(Document B)
Mr J.D. Moore Deputy Secretary
Assistant Secretary
Co-ordination and Management Branch
Director
Finance and Services
Mr A. Rowe
Mr D. Holmesby
Prices Surveillance Authority:
Mr C. Kennedy Executive Officer
46.
Australian Bureau of Statistics:
Mr R.W. Edwards
Mr J. Cornish
Mr D. Leaver
Ms M.C. Jones
Mr L.F. Hughes
First Assistant Statistician
Co-ordination and Management
Division
Assistant Statistician
Population Census and Demography
Branch
Assistant Statistician
Statistical Services Branch
Acting Director
Finance and General Services
Section
Acting Director
Management Control Section.
Department of Finance:
Mr D. Evans
Mr H. Duthie
Senior Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Division
Chief Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 670, 671,
672, 676 (Document A)
Division 984 (Document B)
Division 977 (Statement of Savings)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the year ending 30 June 1985 subject
to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional
information to the Committee.
47.
8 PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE IN RESPECT
OF THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1985 -DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS
9. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh,
Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Employment and Industrial Relations:
Mr G. Rees
Mr A. Fogarty
Mr N. Fisher
Mr K. Power
Mr A. Kaspura
Mr A. Lovell
Mr T. Hilsberg
Mr G. Lampe
Mr B. Coulter
Mr D. Rose
Mr G. Hallinan
Mr D. Gunzburg
Mr J. McMahon
Commissioner
Acting Deputy Secretary
Deputy Secretary
Acting Deputy Secretary
First Assistant Secretary
Management Policy and Development
Division
Acting First Assistant Secretary
Job Creation and Youth Programs
Division .
Acting Chief General Manager, CES
General Manager
Planning and ADP Division
General Manager
Special Groups Division
Acting Assistant Secretary
Resources Management Branch
Acting Manager
Aboriginal Employment and Training
Branch
Acting Secretary
Industry Policy Branch
Assistant Secretary Working
Environment Branch
Industrial Registrar
Conciliation and Arbritration
Commission
48
E. Heagney National Director
Australian Trade Union Training
Authority
Mr F. Kovachevich Acting Assistant Secretary
National Occupational Health and
Safety Commission
Department of Finance:
Mr D. Evans Senior Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
Mr H. Duthie Chief Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 287, 288, 290 (Document A)
Divisions 287, 289, 861 (Statement of Savings)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the
particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the year
ending 30 June 1985 subject to an undertaking by the Minister to
provide additional information to the Committee.
10. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE IN RESPECT
OF THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1985 -DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS 1 1
11. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: The Committee agreed to
incorporate in Hansard correspondence from the Australian
Broadcasting Corporation in response to questions raised before
Estimates Committee A on 4 September 1984.
49.
12. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh, Miister
for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Communications:
Mr E.E. Payne
Mr J.D. Maclean
Deputy Secretary
Assistant Secretary
Finance and Regulatory Branch,
Space, Telecommunications
and Postal Policy Division
Mr B.W. Johnman Assistant Secretary
Management Services Branch
Corporate Policy and Projects
Division
Mr R.N. Smith First Assistant Secretary
Broadcasting Policy and Planning
Division
Mr G.N. McAdoo Acting Assistant Secretary
Communications Development Division
Mr M.R. Ramsay First Assistant Secretary
Radio Frequency Management Division
Mr V.H. Jones First Assistant Secretary
Broadcasting Services Division
Ms R. Martindale Director
Finance Management Services
Branch Corporate Policy and
Projects Division
Australian Broadcasting Corporation:
Mr S.L. Revill Assistant Managing Director
Mr K. Jackson Controller Corporate Relations
Mr A.N. Le Gal ant Director of Finance and EDP
Mr R. Thomas Director of Television
Mr M.W. Long Director of Radio
50.
Ms J.M. Ercole Director of Human Resources Mr G.E. Moriarty Director of Engineering and Property
Mr M. Robertson Director
Sales and Marketing
Australian Broadcasting Tribunal:
Mr A.S. Wilson Acting Secretary Mr M. Payton Finance Officer
Special Broadcasting Service:
Mr L. Shaw Acting Executive Director
Mr R. Stokes Head of Corporate Affairs
Mr S. Kerkyasharian Head of Radio
Mr K. Nazaroff Head of Administration
Mr D. Forsyth Director
Finance
Department of Finance:
Mr D. Evans Senior Finance Officer
Mr H. Duthie
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
Chief Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions
Division
220, 222, 224
842
(Document A)
(Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the
particulars of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the year
ending 30 June 1985 and expenditure under the Advance to the
Minister for Finance 1984-85, subject to an undertaking by the
Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
13. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE IN
RESPECT OF THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1985 -
DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY
14. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh,
Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers;
Department of Primary Industry:
Mr J.L. Gibson
Mr J.R. Smith
Mr D.D. R. Pearson
Mr M. Todd
Mr R.R. Alder son
Mr R. Messer
Dr R. Bain
Mr P. Core
Mr R.W. Gee
Deputy Secretary
Acting First Assistant Secretary
Management Division
Assistant Secretary
Resources Management Branch
Acting Assistant Secretary
Meat Branch
Assistant Secretary
Wine, Dried Fruits and Vegetables
Branch
Acting Assistant Secretary
Sugar and Industrial Crops Branch
Director
Australian Fisheries Service
First Assistant Secretary
Development and Co-ordination
Division
Acting Director
Animal and Plant Health and
Quarantine Service
52.
Mr L. Lane
Mr G. Murray
Dr A.B. Stoeckel
Mr E.R. Thorn
Deputy Director
Animal and Plant Health and
Quarantine Service
Acting Director
Export Inspection Service
Director
Bureau of Agricultural Economics
First Assistant Secretary
Dairy Division
Department of Finance;
Ms P.A. Lyndon Chief Finance Officer
Financial Management and Accounting
Policy Divison
The Minister for Finance made a brief opening statement.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 490, 497 (Document A)
Division 930, 932 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the year ending 30 June 1985.
15. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.23 pm.
53.
16. ATTENDANCE: Senators Primmer (Chairman), Boswell,
Brownhill, Childs, Maguire, Parer. Senators Baume, Harradine,
Macklin, Puplick and Peter Rae also attended.
CONFIRMED:
(C.G. PRIMMER)
Chairman
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 3
TUESDAY, 7 MAY 1985.
1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 8.50am
in Senate Committee Room No.5. The Chairman (Senator
Primmer) took the Chair.
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of meetings held on 28
March 1985 and 15 April 1985 were confirmed.
3. RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS TAKEN ON NOTICE: The Committee
considered responses received. It was resolved that the
Committee write to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation
to seek more detailed responses than those provided on 6 May
1985 .
4. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the
Chairman's draft report to the Senate. The Committee agreed
that the report be amended and recirculated for approval.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.10am.
55.
6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Primmer (Chairman) Boswell, Brownhill
Childs, Maguire, Parer. Senator Peter Rae also attended.
CONFIRMED
56.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D REPORT TO THE SENATE
V â ' r ί
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Report
to the Senate.
1. On 27 March 1985, the Senate referred to the Committee the
Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service
of the year ending on 30 June 1985 and the Particulars of
Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the year
ending on 30 June 1985, relating to the following departments:
Education
Housing and Construction
Sport, Recreation and Tourism
Arts, Heritage and Environment
Aboriginal Affairs
2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has
received explanations of them from the Minister for Education
(Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan), the Minister for Resources and
Energy (Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Q.C.) and officers of the
departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and
Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are
tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with
Appropriation Bill (No.3) 1984-85 and Appropriation Bill (No.4)
1984-85.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the
following matters arising from its consideration of the
Estimates:
59.
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
Commonwealth Schools Commission
During the examination of the additional estimates for the
Commonwealth Schools Commission, the Committee was informed that
a considered decision had been taken by senior Commission
officers which had the effect of limiting the circulation of
certain material on a party political basis. The Committee is
concerned that statutory bodies could be seen to be compromising
their independence by taking party political judgements into
account in decision making.
The Committee noted that this matter had revealed that
considerable difficulties can arise for statutory bodies if
their independent exercise of judgement is compromised by such
decision making, and it is particularly concerned that such
actions could lead to further encroachments by statutory bodies
into areas where such decisions should more appropriately rest
with Ministers or the Parliament.
DEPARTMENT OF SPORT. RECREATION AND TOURISM
Membership Subscriptions to International Organizations
The Department sought an additional estimate to provide for
payment to the World Tourism Organization of the membership fee,
which had increased due to fluctuating exchange rates. There was
a loss to revenue because the subscription had not been paid on
the date on which it was due.
60.
The Committee is of the opinion that as a general practice
membership subscriptions to organizations should be paid by the
due date. Such a practice of punctuality in payment would
prevent criticism regarding any loss or gain to revenue when
exchange rates fluctuate.
Adequacy of Information in Public Material
The Committee also wishes to express concern at an example
of what it regards as obfuscation by the Department. During
questioning relating to the results of an Interdepartmental
Committee on Inward Duty-Free Shopping, referred to in the
Department's 1983-84 Annual Report, the Committee was initially
informed that a report had been furnished to the Government and
subsequently that "information" (undefined) had been provided to
the Government.
In a written reply the Committee was informed that "a
specific report per se was not prepared by the IDC on this
matter. The report referred to in the Department's Annual Report
1983-84 relates to the inputs by Departments into preparation of
the Cabinet submission".
While the Committee is appreciative of the semantic
difference between reporting to government and providing a
report to government, it is of the opinion that departments have
an obligation to be specific and should provide information in
publicly available documents without embellishment.
61.
DEPARTMENT OF ARTS. HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT
"The Return of Captain Invincible"
The Department sought a significant additional estimate
relating to costs arising from legal action in respect of the
Taxation Provisions for Films Scheme application for an Order of
Review under the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act.
Early in the financial year the Commonwealth launched an appeal
against a judgement by Mr Justice McGregor in the Federal Court
of Australia with respect to the film "The Return of Captain
Invincible". The appeal was lost, and as a result the
Commonwealth is required to meet the costs of the other party in
the case, in addition to its own legal costs.
In a written reply to the Committee the Department stated
that "it was never expected that the decision of Mr Justice
McGregor, insofar as it rested on non-observance of natural
justice, would be overturned. It was however hoped, with
reasonable assurance from the legal advisers involved, that some
aspects of the judgement which left room for doubt on how to
apply the relevant legislation might be clarified ...."
The Committee considers that the issues involved with "The
Return of Captain Invincible" warrant further examination and
therefore recommends that the following matter be referred to
the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations: The
circumstances surrounding advice given, decisions taken and
procedures involved with the various court actions relating to
the film "The Return of Captain Invincible".
62.
The Committee was concerned to note the inability of Council
witnesses to provide an explanation of the publication practices
of the Australia Council at the hearings, particularly in
respect of its magazine Art Force. The Committee had been
informed at its hearings in September 1984 that Art Force was
issued every two to three months. The Council has now informed
the Committee that only three issues were produced in 1983-84
and one to date in 1984-85. In addition, arrangements for
printing these issues were made without going to public tender.
The irregular publication of what the Australia Council has
intended to be at least a quarterly magazine demonstrates to the
Committee a lack of planning in the Council's publication
program and consequently the arrangements for the award of
printing contracts are currently haphazard.
The Committee accepts the Council's undertaking that it is
examining its publication program "to determine whether some
projects can be combined so that a tender can be advertised in
substitution for the present arrangements", and will be
monitoring developments in the budget estimates.
National Library of Australia
The Committee has noted the comments and information
provided by the National Library of Australia during recent
estimates examinations in relation to the planning of services
and facilities for the disabled. The Committee is concerned that
the National Library's commitment to services for the disabled
which has been forcefully expressed in recent years, is no
longer specifically stated in its Five Year Plan but has been
"subsumed in the overall allocation of resources". The Committee
will be monitoring developments in this area also during budget
estimates.
63.
Provision of Information in Explanatory Notes
The Department's Explanatory Notes provided a lump sum
revised estimate figure for an item on compensation, legal costs
and damages. A breakdown of this figure for each component was
subsequently provided to a question taken on notice. The
Committee is of the opinion that whenever lump sum amounts are
sought for compensation, legal costs and damages, a breakdown
for each individual case should be included in Explanatory
Notes.
DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL· AFFAIRS
National Aboriginal Conference
As part of its examination of the additional estimates for
the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, the Committee considered
the Auditor-General1s Report on Inspection and Audit of the
National Aboriginal Conference dated 24 September 1984.
The Committee was concerned at the lack of representation by
the NAC at the hearings of the Department on 23 April 1985,
particularly in view of the adverse comments contained in the
Auditor-General's Report on the NAC. The NAC has previously
appeared before the Committee, and, given Estimates Committees'
well known concern with reports by the Auditor-General, it could
reasonably have been expected that the Report's findings would
be raised by the Committee. The Department apparently decided
not to inform the NAC of the impending estimates meetings,
thereby preventing the Committee having access to relevant and
informed witnesses in a subject area which would almost
certainly be raised during the hearings.
64.
The Department undertook at the hearings to provide replies
to questions taken on notice, by its officers, relating to the
NAC. In its written replies to the Committee, the Department
indicated that questions had been referred to the NAC for reply.
It noted further that as from 29 A.pril its officers working in
the NAC had been locked out. From the evidence before it, the
Committee finds it difficult to accept the Department's
implication that the lock-out of its officers by the NAC had
prevented information being provided to the Committee. The
lock-out occurred 6 days after the Committee's hearings and the
NAC has since asserted before the Committee that access to their
relevant files would have been given to Departmental officers.
After writing to the National Chairman of the NAC seeking
replies to the outstanding questions referred to it by the
Department, the Committee was advised by the NAC that it was
preparing responses to a number of the questions and would
welcome the opportunity to appear before the Committee. The
Committee sought from the Senate, and was subsequently granted,
an extension of time to report to enable the NAC to appear
before the Committee.
A public hearing was held on 14 May 1985 at which the
National Chairman, Secretary-General and Director of Finance of
the NAC appeared. At this hearing the NAC indicated to the
Committee that it had supported the Auditor-General undertaking
an investiagtion after it had become apparent that financial
transactions involving the NAC had deteriorated to unacceptable
standards. The NAC did not dispute the findings of the
Auditor-General and emphasised to the Committee that its primary
concern on becoming aware of the criticisms was to ensure that
the deficiencies which had been identified should be properly
addressed and overcome. The Auditor-General's investigations
related to the 1983-84 financial year and the NAC suggested that
many of the deficiencies had been corrected in respect of
transactions for 1984-85.
65.
To illustrate its concern at overcoming its deficiencies,
the MAC arranged for a further audit to be undertaken by
Deloitte Haskins and Sells, which in a report dated 24 December
1984, concluded that "we are of the opinion that there has been
a marked improvement in the administrative system and that
considerably more attention is now being given to procedural
compliance. We further understand that Price Waterhouse have now
been engaged to act as internal auditors to monitor compliance
with financial control systems on a continuing basis."
The Committee accepts that the MAC has been making a
considerable effort to overcome the deficiencies identified by
the Auditor-General. While the Committee noted the "marked
improvements" referred to by Deloitte Haskins and Sells, it also
noted that Deloitte Haskins and Sells were "unable to certify
that satisfactory administrative processes were operating at the
time of our review".
The Committee is of the opinion that it was the
responsibility of the Department to have at least informed the
MAC that Estimates hearings were to be conducted so that the MAC
could have the opportunity of responding directly to the
Auditor-General1s comments. In view of this opinion the
Committee believes that, on the information available to it, the
actions of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs raise an
important principle concerning the processes involved with the
attendance of witnesses before Estimates Committees, together
with the presentation of information to Committees.
Although the Committee appreciates that the Senate has
already granted it an extension of time to report, the Committee
nevertheless believes that as an important principle has been
raised and not satisfactorily resolved, the matter needs further
examination.
66.
In view of the imminent Senate debate on Appropriation Bill
(No.3) 1984-85 and Appropriation Bill (No.4) 1984-85, the
Chairman of the Committee therefore proposes to move that the
following matter be referred to Estimates Committee D for report
on or before Tuesday 28 May 1985:
The processes involved in the appearance of witnesses before
and presentation of information to Estimates Committee D by
the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and National Aboriginal
Conference during its consideration of the proposed
additional expenditure for 1984-85 .
Aboriginal Hostels Limited
The Committee was concerned that, during its hearings,
officers representing Aboriginal Hostels Limited were unable to
provide information as to the necessity for an additional
estimate of $393,735 on administrative expenses. The Committee
strongly supports the often expressed view that officers
representing such bodies before Committees should be capable of
providing sufficient information in order for Committees
properly to undertake their scrutinizing role and for such
bodies to be aware of their responsibility and accountability to
Parliament.
The Committee was concerned that an amount of $30,312 was
owed to Aboriginal artists and makes the general observation
that government and related bodies owing money for work or
services provided by individuals have a responsibility to ensure
that such debts are acquitted as expeditiously as possible.
Bureaucratic procedures or problems should not diminish this
responsibility to reimburse individual citizens for work
performed.
67.
GENERAL
The Committee was concerned to note that the majority of the
problems it felt compelled to raise in this report relate to
various statutory bodies. Previous Estimates Committees have
e/pressed concern over a number of years to ensure that
statutory authorities, although given a degree of independence
in their operations, nevertheless remain fully accountable to
the Parliament. The Committee encountered examples of
authorities compromising their independence by making party
political decisions, of financial maladministration and of
inadequately briefed witnesses appearing before it when seeking
additional public funds from the Parliament. The Committee is of
the opinion that an indifference to the Parliament's right to
scrutinize operations and a lack of an awareness of
accountability to Parliament still exist within a significant
number of statutory authorities.
The Committee intends to continue its assistance to
Parliament in the examination of statutory authorities to ensure
they comprehend their responsibilities and ultimate
accountability to Parliament and through it the people of
Australia.
68.
4. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance
given by the Minister for Education, Minister for Resources and
Energy and the officers of the various departments and
authorities who appeared before the Committee.
The Committee particularly records its appreciation at the
exceptional service provided by Hansard staff who assisted the
Committee's deliberations by expeditiously providing transcripts
after public hearings.
May 1985
69.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
⢠1
THE SENATE
Estimates Committee D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 1
Thursday, 18 April 1985
MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.49 p.m. in Senate Committee Room 6.
RESOLUTIONS: The Secretary reported Resolutions of the Senate dated 22 February 1985, 26 March 1985, 27 March 1985 and 16 April 1985 relating to the appointment and membership of Estimates Committees and the reference of Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1984-85.
ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Reynolds was nominated by Senator Puplick. There being no further nominations, Senator Reynolds was declared elected and thereupon took the Chair.
RELEASE OF DEPARTMENTAL WRITTEN ANSWERS: On the motion of Senator Puplick the following resolution was agreed to:
That the Chairman be authorised to release written answers to questions provided by departments subsequent to meetings of the Committee.
MANNER OF EXAMINING THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to proceed with the examination of Departmental Estimates in the following order:
Education Housing and Construction Sport, Recreation and Tourism Arts, Heritage and Environment Aboriginal Affairs
The Committee anticipated considering each Department on 18 April 1985 and agreed to suspend the public meeting between 6.30 p.m. and 8.p.m.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 2 p.m.
ATTENDANCE: Senators Baume, Puplick, Reynolds, Watson and Zakharov.
Apology: Senator Aulich
April 1985
CONFIRMED:
Chairman
73.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 2
Thursday, 18 April 1985
1. MEETING
The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Room 6. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the
Estimates.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Mr R.N. Allen, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr J.J. Wilson, Special Adviser, Policy & Resource Planning Division Mr C. Beltz, First Assistant Secretary, Education
Programs Division Mr P. Bowler, First Assistant Secretary, General Student Assistance Division Dr A. Taloni, First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr A. Abrahart, First Assistant Secretary, General Policy
& Research Division Mr P. Hughes, Chairman, National Aboriginal Education Committee Miss J. Miller, Assistant Secretary, International
Education Branch
Kr F. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy & Co-ordination Branch Mr R. Harvey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Planning & Budgeting Branch
A u.S ,t r .aJ ,i an_Ce.j3i t aJL_Te r r jtc ·Ï y _£ j : h oPlji^Au th o Jj. t y
Dr E . Price, £;er;icr Director (Resources) Dr A. Butterfield, Director (Resources) Ms T. Reilly, Principal Executive Officer, Finance and Computing
Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission
Mr R.H. Graham.e, Assistant Commissioner Mr J. Kullarvey, Director (Finance)
Com mo nwealth Schools Commission
Mr R.P. McNamara, First Assistant Commissioner, Operations and Resources Division Mr G . Boomer, Director, Curriculum Development Division Dr J . McMorrow, Acting First Assistant Commissioner,
General Resource Programs D ivision Mr W. L. Streat, Acting First Assistant Commissioner, Specific Purpose Programs D i vi si on Kr P. Cameron, Assistant Commissioner, School Facilities
Branch Mr B. Peck, Assistant Commissioner, Services to Schools E ranch Mr W. Daniels, Assistant Commissioner, Operations Branch Mr B. Thomas, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Resources
E ranch
The A ustralia.! _A ’ .c.t jp/caJ
Mr H , Jones, Head, Finance and Accounts Mir J. Brayshaw, Budget Office
C a n b e rra College, of Advanced _Fd_ucatior
Kr G. Eadie, Secretary Mr W. Dwyer, Bursar
D e p a rtment of,._Finan.ee
Mr P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
75.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 270-272, 278, 279, 282-284, 36C (Document A) Divisions 848, 850, 851, 855 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the
proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Education, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
4 . £aRTJâC.UJARS_Oi-_Pj^iJPfiSEn_A£PJ5ljrC)2iAIvJ:XP£MPJiIJJ(£_lS£4r£5-r DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION
) n attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Horsing ar.d Construction
Mr D.A. Cook, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr B.J. Wight, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Housing Policy Division Mr R.G. Pitt, Assistant Secretary, Finance
Department of Finance
Mr P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Minister made an introductory statement.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 352-354 (Document A) Divisions 896, 897 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the
proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction, subject to undertakings by officers to provide additional information to the Committee.
76.
5. I ^ a , L C M M ^ J - J > EQPflS££)_^PPJSJP^.£XiLEMPJTDm 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF' SPORT, RECREATION AND TOUR TRW
In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Biifcartjcen.t.. c.f. Sjpcyrj:^ J.ecj.e^tlpr— SrJ-TpurjiiS
Mr R.G. Harvey, First Assistant Secretary, Tourism s Expositions Division Mr C.J. Thompson, Government Printer, Australian Government Publishing Service Mr B. Mills, Assistant Secretary, Expositions Operations
Branch Mr J. Kirton, Director, Co-ordination International and State Liaison Mr K. Fairbrether, Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and
Co-ordination Branch Mr A.W. Barden, Director, Resource Management Mr D. Mazitelli, Assistant Secretary, Sports Facilities and Events
A.UPtxeJJpx,_Ppiortp_pojnjiiipplcr:
Mr G. Kartung, General Manager Mr M. Weeks, Director, Management and Planning Section
Australian Tourist Commission
Mr J. Angel, Assistant General Manager, Operations
D & p a rtin eji t_of _ Fir, aj. ce
Mr P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Department presented corrigenda pages for its Explanatory Notes (pages 11 and 13) and these corrigenda were tabled.
The Chairman called cn the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 130, 333, 590, 592 (Document A)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism, subject to undertakings by officers to provide additional information to the Committee.
6. £AmCJJMJ^_OF^j^P£ER^PPI^âlDl)AI^EXPE>ipJT:UJii:_J2L8irS5_r r . m a m i l ' . OF ARTS.,. HERITAGE AND. ENVIRONMENT
lr attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
P&p^r.i'-mep,t_pi_Ar±Sj _ iiej:jât^s.e_apd_Enyj^pjhjri.epi
Mr A.G. Keir, Deputy Secretary Mr M. Eourke, First Assistant Secretary, Arts, Film and Heritage Division Ms A. Hull, Assistant Secretary, Arts Branch Dr A. McCusker, Assistant Secretary, Environment
Strategy Branch Hr G. Gilmour, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Management Services Branch Mr B . Zanetti, Director, Finance and Services Dr D. Yerbury, General Manager, Australia Council Hr E. Taylor, Director, Financial Advisory Division,
Australia Council Mr J. Kitney, Director, Management Services, Australia Council Mr R. Adams, Director, Arts Co-ordination,
Australia Council
Pepaj:tinsXit_oi_l'lnar.ce
Mr P. Stark, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 330, 336 (Document A) Divisions 889, 890 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment, subject to undertakings by officers to provide additional information to the Committee.
7. ADJOURNMENT1
The Committee adjourned at 10.25 p.m.
78.
8. AESKECMCI
Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman) , Aulich, Baume, Puplick, Watson, Zakharov. Senators Boswell and Earradine also attended.
CONFIRMED:
April 1985
79.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 3
Tuesday, 23 April 1985
1. MEETING
April in Margaret
DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
In attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Q.C., Minister for Resources and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Aboriginal Affairs
Mr H. Jacka, Acting Secretary Mr E. Willmot, Deputy Secretary Mr G. Brownbill, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr R. Beacman, Acting First Assistant Secretary,
Heritage Division Mr D. O'Rourke, First Assistant Secretary, Program Development Division Mr A. Koukoulas, First Assistant Secretary, Management
Division Mr W. Miller, Acting Assistant Secretary, Budget Branch Mr K. Wanganeen, Assistant Secretary, Management Operations
Aboriginal Hostels Limited
Ms L. O'Donoghue CBE, AM, Chairman Mr R. Clark, Company Secretary Mr J. Rooks, Finance Officer
The Committee met at 8.04 p.m. on Tuesday, 23 Senate Committee Rooms 1 & 2. The Chairman (Senator Reynolds) took the Chair.
80.
& t r t xt.u t ,al_S
Mr W. Dix, Principal
ii.bcricii.ral Development Commission
Mr R. Winrce, Administrator Mr F. McMahon, Assistant Administrator, Management Mr Vi. Roller, Acting Administrator, Operations
Depaj.l· E'en t_of _Jiji an c e
Ms P.A. Lyndon, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Pclicj Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Division 120, 125 (Document A) Division 805, 806 (Document B)
The Department tabled additional information relating to the funding of the Aborigine] Training and Cultural
Institute.
The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
3. ADJOURNMENT
The Committee adjourned at 10.22 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE
Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Aulich, Baume, Puplick, Watson, Zakharov.
CONFIRMED:
F tgar ex tat wuwjh
Margaret Reynolds
April 1985
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 4
Tuesday, 7 May 1985
1.
2 .
3.
4 .
5.
MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 8.50 a.m. in Senate Committee Rooms Nos. 1 and 2. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the chair.
CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 18 April 1985 (Nos. 1 and 2) and 23 April 1985 (No.3) were confirmed.
ITEMS FOR INCLUSION IN REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered items to be included in its Report and agreed that aspects relating to the following areas should be included:
Commonwealth Schools Commission World Tourism Organization Interdepartmental Committee on Inward Duty-Free Shopping "The Return of Captain Invincible" Australia Council
National Library Explanatory Notes National Aboriginal Conference Aboriginal Hostels Limited Aboriginal Artists Statutory Authorities
The Committee resolved that outstanding replies to questions taken on notice concerning the National Aboriginal Conference be pursued via correspondence from the Chairman.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.30 a.m.
ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Aulich, Baume and Puplick. Apologies were received from Senators Watson and Zakharov.
CONFIRMED:
May 1985
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
82.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 5
Thursday 9 May 1985
MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 8.20 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No.6. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meeting held on 7 May 1985 (No.4) were confirmed.
BUSINESS ARISING: The Chairman referred to correspondence with the National Aboriginal Conference inviting it to provide outstanding replies to questions taken on notice concerning the NAC directly to the Committee and noted that the NAC had accepted the invitation.
The Committee resolved:
(a) that an indication as to why a representative of the NAC was not present at the hearings of 23 April 1985 be sought;
(b ) that follow-up action be taken on the outstanding replies to be provided by the NAC; and
(c) that the NAC be given the opportunity of appearing before the Committee in public session.
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate.
The Committee resolved that the draft Report be agreed to, subject to amendment of the section on the NAC following any further examination of the NAC.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.43 a.m.
ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Aulich, Baume, Puplick, Watson. An apology was received from Senator Zakharov.
CONFIRMED:
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
May 1985 83
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 6
Tuesday, 14 May 1985
MEETING: The Committee met at 8.45 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No.6. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to this meeting with the NAC and referred to the Senate granting on 10 May 1985 an extension of time for the Committee to report.
STATEMENT BY NATIONAL CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL ABORIGINAL CONFERENCE: The National Chairman of the NAC made a statement relating to the Committees hearings of 23 April 1985.
PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS - RE-CONSIDERATION OF DIVISION 120
In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
The Chairman called on Division 120 to be reconsidered.
The NAC tabled additional information relating to guestions taken on notice during the hearings of 23 April 1985.
The Committee concluded its re-consideration of Division 120 of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.30 a.m.
ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Baume, Puplick, Watson and Zakharov. An apology was received from Senator Aulich.
National Aboriginal Conference
Mr Rob RILEY - National Chairman Mr Les MALEZER - Secretary General Mr Colin KAY - Director of Finance
CONFIRMED
May 1985
84
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 7
Wednesday, 15 May 1985
MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 9.50 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No.5. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Meetings held on 9 May 1985 (No.5) and 14 May 1985 (No.6) were confirmed.
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered, the revised section of the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate relating to the National Aboriginal Conference.
The Committee resolved that the revised section of the draft Report be agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.57 a.m.
ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Aulich, Baume, Puplick, Zakharov. An apology was received from Senator Watson.
CERTIFIED CORRECT:
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
May 1985
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D SECOND REPORT TO THE SENATE
â :
i â
A U ST RA L I A N SENATE C A N S E ^ t A A
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
SECOND REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Second Report to the Senate.
1. On 15 May 1985 the Senate referred to the Committee the following matter for report on or before Tuesday, 28 May 1985:
The processes involved in the appearance of witnesses before, and presentation of information to, Estimates Committee D by the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and the National Aboriginal Conference during its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for 1984-85.
2. The Committee has examined the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and the National Aboriginal Conference in relation to the reference, and has received explanations from the Minister for Education, officers of the Department and of the NAC. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of
the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate.
3. In a letter to the Chairman dated 22 May 1985, the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs indicated the Department's understanding of the general arrangements for the appearance of officers before Estimates Committees to be either that the organization had requested additional estimates or that the Committee had provided prior notice of its intention to raise issues relating to that organization. The Committee appreciates that the Department in this case acted in accordance with that understanding of the procedures of Estimates Committees.
4. The Committee, however, reiterates the opinion expressed in its Report of 15 May 1985 that in view of the adverse comments contained in the Auditor-General1s Report on the NAC, and given Estimates Committees' well known concern with reports by the Auditor-General, it could reasonably have been expected
that the Auditor-General1s findings would be raised by the Committee. While the Committee notes that the Department was represented by officers able to respond v.o most questions relating to the NAC it also notes the NAC"s claim that it was inappropriate for the Department to speak on its behalf
and that it wished to accept responsibility for its own representations.
89.
5. In relation to the second aspect of its reference, the Committee draws the Senate's attention to the explanations provided by the Department and the NAC in the Hansard record of the hearing of 23 May 1985 relating to the delayed provision of written replies to the Committee.
6. The Committee again expresses its appreciation at the further co-operation and assistance given by the Minister for Education, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan and the officers from the Department and the National Aboriginal Conference.
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
May 1985
90.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
· ; / ' Î
â " · â a
;>· ί
‘ ·..·
f . · · ; - : â
THE SE N A T E
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 8
Thursday, 23 May 1985
MEETING: The Committee met at 8.35 a .m . in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman reported the Resolution of the Senate of 15 May 1985 relating to the reference of a matter to the Committee and made a statement relating thereto.
DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS - EXAMINATION: In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Aboriginal Affairs
Mr H. Jacka - Deputy Secretary Mr K. Wanganeen - Assistant Secretary, Management Mr V). Miller - Assistant Secretary, Budget Mr T. Hanrahan - Director, Management Mr G. Bissaker - Director, Budget Co-ordination
National Aboriginal Conference
Mr 0. Cruse - Member for NSB area, representing the National Chairman Mr C. Kay - Director of Finance Mr N. Johnson - Assistant Secretary-General
The Minister made an introductory statement.
The Committee concluded its examination of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.02 a .m .
ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Baume, Puplick and Zakharov. Apologies were receiv ’ ' ' * ’ ch
and Watson.
CONFIRMED:
Chairman
1985 93.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Minutes of Proceedings
No. 9
Tuesday 28 May 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.55 a .m . in Senate Committee Room No.5. The Chairman (Senator Margaret Reynolds) took the Chair.
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meeting held on 23 May 1985 (No.8) were confirmed.
3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. The Committee resolved that the draft Report be agreed to.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.57 a.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Margaret Reynolds (Chairman), Aulich and Baume. Apologies were received from Senators Puplick, Watson and Zakharov.
CERTIFIED CORRECT:
Margaret Reynolds Chairman
May 1985
94.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E .REPORT TO THE SENATE
! L
i i I I i
E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E E
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee E presents its Report to the Senate.
1. On 27 March 1985, the Senate referred to the Committee the
Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the
Service of the year ending on 30 June 1985 and the
Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in
respect of the year ending 30 June 1985 for the following
departments:-
. Defence
. Foreign Affairs (including the Australian Development Assistance Bureau)
. Special Minister of State
. Resources and Energy · * â
. Attorney-General's Department.
2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of the
Departments together with the Departmental Explanatory
Notes, and has received explanations of them from the
Minister for Resources and Energy (Senator the Hon.
G.J. Evans Q.C.) and officers of the Departments. A copy
of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the
evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the
information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation
Bill (No. 3) 1985 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1985.
Answers to questions which the Minister and officials
considered could be answered more adequately if taken on
notice and replied to in writing following the Committee's
hearing, will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in
the final Hansard report of the Committee's hearing.
97.
3. The Committee wishes to draw certain specific matters to
the attention of the Senate.
Presentation of Estimates
4. The Committee was concerned that in some respects the
presentation of the Additional Estimates could have been
improved. Prior to the Committee's sitting, but after a
small number of copies of the Department's Explanatory
Notes had been circulated, the Department of the Special
Minister of State re-presented a number of sub-divisions
of expenditure in order to include requested dissections
on each item of expenditure. A similar problem arose with
the explanatory notes for the Department of Defence,
though to a lesser degree. The Committee considers that
where expenditure falls under an item head the item should
be financially dissected in the usual way to facilitate a
proper grasp of where expenditure is going and how it is
fluctuating.
5. The Explanatory Notes of the Attorney-General's Department
presented item dissections which in some cases displayed
"Actual Expenditure for 1983/84" for comparison with
"Revised Estimate for 1984/85", and in other cases
displayed "Original Appropriation 1984/85" for comparison
with the "Revised Estimate". In one case an erratum sheet
deleted "Original Appropriation 1984/85" and substituted
"Actual Expenditure 1983/84". In all of the Explanatory
Notes of other Departments considered by the Committee the
standard comparison was between "Original Appropriation
1984/85" and "Revised Estimate 1984/85".
6. The Department of Resources and Energy in Explanatory
Notes dissections, consistently used the expression
"Original Estimate" where other Departments had used
"Original Appropriation".
98.
7. Without prejudice to any reforms or proposals which may
arise from the current investigation by the Senate
Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations
into the presentation of estimates, the Committee would
suggest that in Additional Estimates, as far as possible,
all sub-divisions of expenditure should be itemised and
terminology and presentation should be consistent across
all Departments. Dissections of items should present four
columns displaying -
. actual expenditure for the previous financial year;
. original appropriations for the current year;
. revised estimates for the current year; and
. monetary variation as between the original appropriation and the revision.
Attendance of Senators
8. The detailed scrutiny of expenditure of tax payers' money
is an exercise which deserves a high priority among
Senators. Thus the Committee was pleased to note the
presence and active involvement in the consideration of
these additional estimates of other Senators who were not
members of the Committee. They properly took advantage of
the Estimates Committee procedure and the Committee's
access to senior officials to examine particular matters
of interest and concern to them.
Briefing of Officials Attending
9. The Committee considers that because of the delay involved
it is unfortunate that a significant number of its
questions were not answered orally, but were taken on
notice for a written reply. The Committee accepts that
this is a consequence of the complexity of government and
the probing nature of questions asked by Senators. The
99.
Committee takes the opportunity, however, to remind
Departments of the need to ensure that officials attending
to assist the Minister should as far as possible be
briefed to give adequate oral answers and table explana
tory documents to all but the most detailed of questions.
The Committee is faced with the task of framing questions
on the basis of complex material and then absorbing
answers which of necessity are often detailed and complex.
Confused answers which may reflect inadequate briefing,
such as arose in questioning directed to expenditure on
Australian Non-Government Organisations (Australian Devel
opment Assistance Bureau Explanatory Notes, Division 318,
Sub-division 7, Item 01, Support for overseas aid activi
ties), do not assist the Committee in its task.
10. Finally the Committee expresses its thanks for the
assistance given by the Minister, Senator the Hon.
G.J. Evans Q.C., and the officers who attended the
hearing, orally answered questions and subsequently
prepared written answers to questions on notice.
Mai Colston
Chairman
May 1985
100.
ATTACHMENTS:
Page
Documents Tabled by the Department of Defence 102
Documents Tabled by the Department of the Special Minister of State 103
Documents Tabled by the Department of Resources and Energy 104
Documents Tabled by the Attorney-General's Department 105
101.
Division: Sub-Division
256 4
DEFENCE PRODUCTION Australian Industry Assistance
Original Revised Variation
Appropriation Estimate 1984-85 1984-85
$ $ $
Australian Industry Assistance . Munitions 3 000 000 3 811 000 +811 000
. Aerospace 2 500 000 5 507 000 + 3 007 000
. Shipbuilding 5 500 000 3 522 000 -1 978 000
. Administration 8 119 000 7 622 000 -497 000
Total Aust. Industry Assist 19 119 000 20 462 000 + 1 343 000
Other Expenses 81 000 81 000
Total Division 256/4 19 200 000 20 543 000 + 1 343 000
Division: Sub-Division:
256 1
- DEFENCE PRODUCTION Munitions Production
Expenses (including payments to relevant Trust Accounts) Original Appropriation
1984-85
Revised Estimate 1984-85
Variation
$ $ $
- Uncovered Costs 69 763 000 70 662 000 +899 000
- Rearrangement of Capital Facilities 445 000 445 000 NIL
- Other Expenditure 511 000 511 000 NIL
Reserve Stock 4 593 000 4 593 000 NIL
Production Development
TOTAL Division 256/1
2 200 000 2 200 000 NIL
77 512 000 78 411 000 +899 000
102.
0063M
DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE
NOTIONAL ITEMS - REALLOCATE ON OF FUNDS
DIVISION : 575 - ADMINISTRATIVE
SUB-DIVISION : 2 - Administrative Expenses
DISSECTION:
Travel and Subsistence Office Requisites and Equipment, Stationery and Printing Postage, Telegrams and Telephone
Services Computer Services Consultants Incidental and Other Expenditure
BUD3ET REVISED ALLOCATION ALLOCATION VARIATION 1984/85 1984/85 $ $ $
364,000 340,000 - 24,000
194,000 230,000 + 36,000
444,000 600,000 + 156,000 1,881,400 1,693,400 - 188,000 165,000 165,000 -
598,800 618,800 + 20,000
3,647,200 3,647,200 NIL
REASON FOR VARIATIONS:
The increases reflect a higher than anticipated requirement for office requisites (especially office machines) and higher than anticipated telephone charges during the first full year of operations since this Departments Physical separation from the then Department of Administrative Services, plus
. small increase in the requirement for legal expenses. These increases have been offset by rationalisation in, and some deferment of Departmental travel and rationalisation of Departmental computer services.
103.
FUNDS DRAHN FROM THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE PENDING APPROPRIATION OF ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES
BILL
BILL
Item Description
Amount Expenditure draan to 18-4-85
$ $
NO 3
Nil
NO 4
943-0-07 Payment to Nea South Hales for royalties forgone on coal from Coal Cliff stockpile 3 400 000 3 051 646
944-0-03 Assistance to Queensland Mines Ltd - purchase, storage and insurance of uranium 2 900 2 889
944-0-04 Royal Commission into British Nuclear Tests in Australia - Costs of Commonaealth representation 121 000 109 930
A T T O R N E Y -G E N E R A L 'S D E PA R TM EN T
7 1 g m ROBERT GARRAN OFFICES
NATIONAL c ir c u it BARTON ACT 2600
PLEASE QUOTE
YOUR REF
V April 1985
Mr P. O'Keefe Secretary Senate Estimates Committee E, Parliament House CANBERRA ACT 2600
Dear Mr O'Keefe
Set out below are details of expenditure from the Advance to the Minister for Finance which were not included in the Explanatory Notes for the Attorney-General's Department:
Division Sub-Division Item Description Variation Total Provided
$ 5
165 3 05 Criminal
Injuries Compensation + 82,700 170,000
175 1 01 Australian
Legal Aid Office - Salaries + 800,000 800,000
175 1 02 A LAO -
Overtime + 10,000 10,000
175
2
01 ALAO -
Travelling and Subsistence + 34,000 34,000
175 2 02 ALAO - Office
Requisites etc + 50,800 50,800
175 2 03 ALAO -
Postage etc + 56,300 56,300
175 2 04 ALAO -
Incidentals + 54,900 54,900
175 3 01 ALAO -
Legal Disbur sements + 75,000 75,000
105.
-2-
Division
175
Sub-Division Item Description Variation Total Provided
3 02 ALAO -
Private Legal Practitioners +2,000,000 2,000,000
(P.E. BASKETT) Assistant Secretary
106.
- 27 -
ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT
DIVISION: 181 Human Rights Commission
SUB-DIVISION: 2 Administrative Expenses
ADDITIONAL ESTIMATE (A) 1984/85 $
ORIGINAL APPROPRIATION (B) 1984/85 $
ACTUAL EXPENDITURE (C) 1983/84 $
VARIATION BETWEEN (A 4 B) AND C
$ %
415,000 2,589,200 1,126,764 +1,877,436 166.6
PURPOSE OF ITEM:
To provide for the costs of travel and subsistence, office requisites, information services, postage, telephones, building rental, research, public hearings and conferences, reimbursement to States, incidental expenditure and furnishings and fittings.
GENERAL COMMENT:
The increased requirement is to meet the cost of establishing a shopfront office in Canberra City, additional research projects under the Sex Discrimination Act, and to meet co-operative agreements with NSW and South Australia which have now been finalized.
DISSECTION:
ACTUAL REVISED INCREASE
EXPENDITURE ESTIMATE DECREASE
1983/84 1984/85
~ ~ r ~ $
Travelling and subsistence Office requisites and 229,569 300,000 + 70,431
equipment 94,074 93,200 - 874
Information services Postage, telegrams and 239,688 915,000 + 675,312
telephones 167,904 175,000 + 7,096
Building rental and repairs 206,867 358,000 + 151,133
Research (Consultants) Public Hearings and 42,411 170,000 + 127,589
Conferences 7,242 29,000 + 21,758
Reimbursement to States Incidental and other 107,412 835,000 ⦠727,588
expenditure 22,066 64,000 + 41,934
Furniture and Fittings Grants to Community 9,531 15,000 + 5,469
Organisations “ 50,000 + 50,000
Total 1,126,764 3,004,200 +1 ,877,436
107.
.11
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
â Î
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/
AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA. A CT
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 1
16 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 8.40 am in
Committee Room No. 5.
2. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for
nominations for Chairman. Senator Reynolds was nominated
by Senator Black, seconded by Senator Sir John Carrick.
Senator Reynolds thereupon took the Chair. A likely change
in Committee membership was discussed.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85:
The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the
Senate of 27 March 1985 referring to the Particulars of
Proposed Additional Expenditure 1985 for the following
Departments:
Resources and Energy
Attorney-General's
Special Minister of State
Foreign Affairs
Defence
4. The Committee resolved to examine Departmental Estimates in
the following order:
Department of Defence
Department of Foreign Affairs
Department of Special Minister of State
Department of Resources and Energy
Attorney-General's Department
111.
5. The meeting was adjourned at 8.57 am until 1.55 pm on
Thursday 18 April 1985 in the Senate Chamber.
6. Attendance: Senator J.R. Black
4
S e n a t o r the Hon. S i r J o h n G a r r i c k
S e n a t o r M. R e y n o l d s
S e n a t o r B.C. T e a g u e
S e n a t o r J.P. M c K i e r n a n a l s o a t t e n d e d
7. A p o l o g i e s : S e n a t o r D. J. M a c G i b b o n
S e n a t o r K.W. S i b r a a
C o n f i r m e d :
g ' f c y L ·
Mai Colston Chairman
112.
*« 8 0^ AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA. AC.T.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 2
THURSDAY 18 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.55 pm in the
Senate Chamber. The Secretary called the meeting to order.
2. MEMBERSHIP: The Secretary reported that Senator McKiernan had
replaced Senator Sibraa and that Senator Colston had replaced
Senator Reynolds pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate on 16
April 1985. The Secretary advised that it was therefore
necessary to elect a new Chairman.
3. CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for Chairman.
Senator Colston was nominated and elected.
4. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Committee confirmed the Minutes of
the meeting held on 16 April 1985.
5. PUBLICATION OF WRITTEN ANSWERS: On the motion of Senator Black
it was agreed that the Chairman be authorised to release written
answers to questions provided subsequent to meetings of the
Committee.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 2.00 pm.
6. ATTENDANCE: Senator Colston (Chairman) and Senators Black,
the Honourable Sir John Carrick, MacGibbon, McKiernan, Teague.
Confirmed:
Mai Colston Chairman
113.
AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA. A C T.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 3
THURSDAY 18 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 pm. The Chairman,
Senator Colston, took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman reported the
Resolutions of the Senate on 27 March 1985, and made a
statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the
Committee in its examination of the estimates.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE
In Attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, Q.C.,
Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Minister for
Defence accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Defence
Mr A.K. Wrigley, Deputy Secretary B
Mr D.W. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary Technical Services
and Logistics Development
Brig. P.R. Badman, Director-General Operations and Plans - Army
Mr G.E. Barlow, Deputy Chief Defence Scientist
Cdre Beaumont, Acting Assistant Chief of the Defence Force
(Policy)
AVM B.H. Collings, Assistant Chief of the Defence Force
(Operations)
114.
Cdre Î .R. Cooper, Deputy Chief of Naval Materiel
Mr L.A. Davey, Acting Assistant Secretary Defence Facilities
Program Management
Mr R.K. Ellis, Assistant Director Natural Disasters
Organisation (Policy and Support)
Mr R.H. Englund, Assistant Secretary Manpower Policy and
Requirements
Mr R.B. Finnegan, First Assistant Secretary Industrial
Mr P.G. Gifford, First Assistant Secretary Production
Development
AVM A.E. Heggen, Chief of Air Force Materiel
Mr P.A . Hemsley, Assistant Secretary Science and Technology
Administration
Mr P.R. Huntley, Acting Assistant Secretary Budget and Estimates
(General and Co-ordination)
Mr M.H. Ives, Acting First Assistant Secretary Programs and
Budgets
Mr M. Kargas, Acting Assistant Secretary Accounting
Brig G.J. Loughton, Acting Chief of Materiel - Army
Dr M.K. McIntosh, Acting First Assistant Secretary Defence
Industry and Materiel Policy
Mr J.E. McMahon, Assistant Secretary Resources Planning - Navy
Mr M.L. Murdoch, Acting Chief Executive Officer Program and
Resource Analysis
Mr M.J. Murray, Special Adviser Resources Procurement
Cmdr P.C. Phipps, Acting Director Naval Plans
Mr A.I.C. Pratt, Acting Assistant Secretary International Policy
(PNG and Defence Co-operation Programs)
Mr P.G. Skinner, Acting Assistant Secretary Resources Planning -
Army
Mr D.I. Taylor, Acting Special Adviser Production
Mr P.G. Terrill, First Assistant Secretary Commercial
Air Cdre J.I. Thomson, Director-General Operational
Requirements - Air Force
Mr N.C. Yeend, Acting Assistant Secretary Resources Planning -
Air Force
115.
Department of Finance
Mr B.J. C-leeson, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management
and Accounting Policy Division
Ms A. Mays, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 230, 232-234, 239, 255-257, 260 - $249,670,000
(Document A)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the Department of Defence, subject to
undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, Q.C.,
Minister for Resources and Energy, representing the Minister for
Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:
DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
Mr A.D. Campbell, Acting Deputy Secretary
Mr M.G.D. Williams, Acting First Assistant Secretary Management
and Foreign Service Division
Mr D.A. Hollway, Acting Assistant Secretary General Economic
Branch
Mr J.M.Watson, International Organisations and Humanitarian
Affairs Branch
Mr M. Fitzpatrick, Director Finance Section
Mr P. Varghese, Disarmament/Arms Control Branch
Mr D.J. Ritchie, Economic Relations Branch
Mr J. Gleeson, Director Resources Planning and Liaison Unit
116.
Mr H. Leece, Executive Officer Establishment Control
Mr G.J. Thompson, Budget Officer Finance Section
Mr G . Baseden, Resources Planning and Liaison Unit
Australian Development Assistance Bureau
Mr M.R. Casson, Acting First Assistant Secretary Policy Planning
and Management Division
Mr J.M. Powell, Assistant Secretary Program Planning and Review
Branch
Mr R.E. Stensholt, Assistant Secretary Development
Training Branch
Mr K.W. Aspinall, Acting Assistant Secretary Operations Support
Branch
Mr A. Macdonald, Head, Strategic Planning Section
Mr J. Castrission, Acting Budgets Officer
Department of Finance
Mr B.J. Gleeson, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management
and Accounting Policy Division
Ms A. Mays, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 315, 316, 318, 319
$22,921,000
Divisions 873, 875, 876
$440,000
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs,
subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional
information.
(Document A) -
(Document B ) -
117.
5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE
In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, Q.C.,
Minister for Resources and Energy, representing the Special
Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:
DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE
Mr R. Holdich, Deputy Secretary
Mr J. Gavin, Senior Assistant Secretary Operations Unit
Mr P. Hempel, Director Budgeting and Information Systems Section
Mr H. Logue, First Assistant Secretary Parliamentary and General
Division
Mr R. Webb, Assistant Secretary Electoral, Grants and
Authorities Branch
Mr J. Simons, Assistant Secretary Parliamentary and Ministerial
Services
Mr H. Keen, Assistant Secretary National Awards and Symbols
Mr W. McCann, First Assistant Secretary Law Enforcement Policy
Division
Mr C. Whyte, Assistant Secretary Public Order Branch
Mr G. Quigley, Senior Assistant Secretary General Policy
Mrs N.C. Bee, Assistant Secretary Organised Crime Policy Branch
Mr R. Mooney, Head Protective Services Co-ordination Centre
Australian Federal Police
Deputy Commissioner Farmer, Deputy Commissioner AFP
Superintendant R. Dixon, Coastal Protection Unit
Mr S. Gavin, Secretary
Mr D. Lane, Estimates Officer
118.
Australian Electoral Commission
Mr B . Friend, Assistant Commissioner Resource Management
Mr J. Mahoney, Assistant Commissioner Information and Education
Mr A. Helling, Assistant Commissioner Operations
Mr E. Klatt, Director Finance and General
Commonwealth Grants Commission
Mr B . Major, Assistant Secretary
National Crime Authority
Mr G . Linnane, First Assistant Secretary
Roval Commission into British Nuclear Tests in Australia
Mr J. Atkinson, Secretary
Department of Finance
Mr B.J. Gleeson, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management
and Accounting Policy Division
Ms A. Mays, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and
Accounting Policy Division.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 575, 577, 579, 580, 582 (Document A) -
$1 1 ,507 ,000
Divisions 953, 955 (Document B ) - $1,264,000
The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the Department of the Special
Minister of State, subject to undertakings by the Minister to
provide additional information.
119.
6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85
DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCES AND ENERGY
In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, Q.C.,
Minister for Resources and Energy, accompanied by the following
officers:
DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCES AND ENERGY
Mr P. Ryan, First Assistant Secretary Coal and Minerals
Division
Mr J.C. Starkey, First Assistant Secretary Petroleum Division
Mr W.G. McGregor, First Assistant Secretary Uranium and Nuclear
Division
Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary Water and Development
Division
Mr G.C. Gorrie, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination
and Management Division
Mr B.R. Jones, Assistant Secretary Development Branch
Prof R.W.R. Rutland, Director Bureau of Mineral Resources
Mr C. Veenstra, Director Division of National Mapping
Australian Atomic Energy Commission
Dr D.G. Walker, Chief Executive Officer and Director Research
Establishment
Mr R.J. Baker, Controller, Finance and Supply
The Pipeline Authority
Mr T.R. Baker, Executive Member
Mr F.W. Noble, Finance Manager
Department of Finance
Mr B.J. Gleeson, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management
and Accounting Policy Division
120.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 520, 521, 523 (Document A) - $1,171,000
Divisions 942-944 (Document B) - $9,284,000
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the Department of Resources and
Energy, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide
additional information.
7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 -
ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT
In Attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, Q.C.,
Minister for Resources and Energy, representing the
Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:
ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT
Mr L.G. Glare, Deputy Secretary
Mr L.J. Curtis, Deputy Secretary
Mr J.L.M. Carnsew, First Assistant Secretary Management
Division
Mr M.A. Cranswick, First Assistant Secretary Community Affairs
Division
Mr J. Wood, First Assistant Secretary Office of Consumer Affairs
Mr M.E. Haddrick, Acting First Assistant Secretary Justice and
Administrative Law Division
Mr P.E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary Operations
Mr N.S. Reaburn, Senior Assistant Secretary Criminal Law and
Security Branch
Mr R.G. Moss, Senior Assistant Secretary Legal Aid Branch
Mr C.C. Creswell, Senior Assistant Secretary Financial
Assistance Branch
Mr M.D. Starr, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary Companies and
Securities Branch
121.
Mr M.G. Dwyer, Assistant Secretary Special Services Branch
Mr P.G. Griffiths, Principal Legal Officer Bankruptcy Branch
Mr D. Wallace, Principal Legal Officer Family Law Branch
Mr R. Venables, Director Finance Section
Mrs D. Higgins, Assistant Director Office of the Director of
Public Prosecutions
Ms S. Gleeson, Director State/Non-Government Relations, Human
Rights Commission
Mr P. Clark, Senior Deputy Director Office of the Director of
Public Prosecutions
Department of Finance
Mr B.J. Gleeson, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management
and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for
consideration:
Divisions 161, 175, 179, 181, 187 (Document A) -
$7,432,000
Divisions 818, 820 (Document B ) - $698,000
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed
Additional Expenditure for the Attorney-General1s Department,
subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional
information.
8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.56 pm.
9. ATTENDANCE: Senator Colston (Chairman) and Senators Black,
the Honourable Sir John Garrick, MacGibbon, McKiernan and
Teague. Senators Chaney, Durack, Kilgariff, Primmer and
Tate also attended.
Confirmed:
Mai Colston Chairman
122.
AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA. A.C.T.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NO. 4
THURSDAY 18 APRIL 1985
1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 9.55 pm
in the Senate Chamber. The Chairman took the Chair.
2. DISCUSSION OF PROCEEDINGS: The Committee discussed the
role of Estimates Committees as acting on behalf of the
Senate to scrutinise the estimates of the Departments.
Points of procedure were also discussed.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee agreed to hold its next meeting
on 7 May 1985 subject to written answers having been
received from Departments, in order to consider its
report. The Committee adjourned at 10.03 pm.
ATTENDANCE: Senator M. A. Colston (Chairman)
Senator the Honourable Sir John Garrick
Senator D. J. MacGibbon
Senator B.C. Teague
APOLOGIES: Senator J.R. Black
Senator J.P. McKiernan
Confirmed:
123.
Mai Colston
Chairman
Î Jj, AUSTRALIA,,^AUSTRALIAN SENATECANBERRA. A.C.T ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 5 Tuesday, 7 May 1985 1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 8.05 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 7. The Chairman, Senator Colston, took the Chair. 2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: On the motion of Senator MacGibbon, the minutes of private meetings held on 18 April 1985 and the minutes of the public hearing held on 18 April 1985 were confirmed. 3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report to the Senate. The Committee discussed the written answers given by Departments and noted that many answers were not as detailed as expected. Some questions were considered to be inadequately answered and the Committee resolved to seek additional information on these questions. On the motion of Senator Car rick it was agreed that the draft report be adopted and that the Chairman be given leave to mention that some answers from departments are still outstanding if they have not been received by the Chairman at the time of tabling.124.
. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.15 a.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were
present: Senators Colston (Chairman), Black, the Hon. Sir John
Car rick, MacGibbon and Teague.
6. APOLOGIES: Senator McKiernan.
CERTIFIED CORRECT:
Mai Colston Chairman
125.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 27 March 1985 the Senate referred to the
Committee for examination and report the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1985 and the Particulars of Certain
Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1985 relating to the following
Departments:
Veterans' Affairs Transport Aviation Territories Local Government and Administrative Services
2. The Committee has considered the Additional
Estimates and has received explanations from the Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Senator Gietzelt) and officers representing the Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1984-85 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1984-85.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to
the following matters:
Alteration of Subdivision Expenditure
In the examination of the Department of Aviation, the Committee was given information concerning the
reallocation of funds within a subdivision. The
rearrangement of funds in this particular instance did not involve additional expenditure and consequently the sub division did not appear in the Appropriation Bill.
However, there was considerable movement of funds between the items within that subdivision. Such
rearrangement of funds can occur through the process established by an amendment to the Audit Act 1901 which passed through the Parliament in 1984.
The provisions of the Audit Act now enable a
department to approach the Minister for Finance and seek his approval for transfers of funds between items within a subdivision. The Minister for Finance has approved this transfer and the Department of Aviation, pursuant to a Department of Finance directive (Estimates Memorandum
1985/10), included the alterations in the explanatory notes for the Additional Estimates. The Department of Aviation assisted the Committee by drawing its attention to these alterations.
At present, Parliament approves appropriations for specific line items within subdivisions on the understanding that the funds appropriated will be spent for the specific purposes outlined in the Explanatory notes.
129.
The Audit Act, as amended, now enables departments as soon as the appropriations have been approved, to seek permission without prior parliamentary scrutiny to alter the way in which funds will in fact be spent.
The Committee expresses concern that funds can be transferred within subdivisions in the Appropriation Bills without any parliamentary scrutiny prior to the expenditure of those funds.
Statement of Savings Expected in Annual Appropriations
During the hearings of Estimates Committee F, it became apparent that departments were referring to a Department of Finance Information Paper entitled "Statement of Savings expected in Annual Appropriations". Members of the Committee found it confusing when dealing with proposed additional expenditure that officers of departments referred to the savings made within their departments and yet the Committee did not have the information paper referred to it for consideration. The Committee recommends that the information paper known as "Statement of Savings expected in Annual Appropriations" be referred to estimates committees at the same time as the other documents concerning
additional estimates.
4. The Committee records its appreciation of the
assistance given by the Minister and the officers of the Departments concerned.
10 May 1985
(GEORGE GEORGES) Chairman
130.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
-
â
â
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 1 THURSDAY , 18 APRIL 1985
1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.55 pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The
Secretary took the Chair.
2. RESOLUTIONS OF THE SENATE: The Secretary reported the Resolutions of the Senate of 22 February 1985 relating to the appointment of the Committee, of 26 March 1985 relating to the appointment of members to the
Committee, and of 27 March 1985 relating to the
referral of Proposed Additional Expenditure for 1984-85.
3 . ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for
nominations for the position of Chairman. Senator Townley proposed Senator Georges to be Chairman. There being no other nominations, Senator Georges was declared elected and took the Chair.
4. ORDER OF DEPARTMENTS: The Committee agreed that the Departments would be examined in the following order:
1. Department of Veterans' Affairs 2. Department of Transport 3 . Department of Aviation 4. Department of Territories 5. Department of Local Government and Administrative
Services.
5. PUBLIC MEETING: At 2.00 pm the Committee met in public session.
6. The Chairman declared the meeting open, reported the Resolution of the Senate of 27 March 1985, and made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the estimates.
7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS.
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. A.T. Gietzelt,
Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Veterans' Affairs -Mr D. Volker, Secretary
Ms J . McGirr, Deputy Chairman of Repatriation Commission
Dr J. Mould, Deputy Chief Director, Medical Services 133.
Mr J. Muir, First Assistant Secretary, Benefits
Mr B. O'Shannassy, Acting First Assistant
Secretary, Treatment Services
Mr A. Selleck, General Manager, Defence Service Homes Division
Mr J. Cosgrove, Assistant Secretary, Finance
Mr B. Godfrey, Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Establishments
Dr G. Brooks, Acting Assistant Secretary,
Departmental Health
Mr B. Hill, Assistant Secretary, Systems Services and Facilities
Mr L. Withers, Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Co-ordination
Mr M. Goldstein, Director, Hospital Resources
Mr R. Marshall, Acting Director, Vietnam Veterans' Counselling Service
Mr B. Partridge, Assistant Secretary, Employment Relations and Conditions Branch
Ms V. Wright, Acting Director, Office of
Australian War Graves
Mr P. Tedder, Assistant Director, Resources Management, Australian War Memorial
Mr P. James, Director, Policy Co-ordination
Mr M. McCartney, Acting Director, Pharmaceutical Services
Department of Finance -Mr A .J . Chapman, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 334, 690-692 (Document A) Division 984 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Veterans' Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
134.
PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT.
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. A.T. Gietzelt,
Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Transport -Mr M.J. Hutchinson, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Co-ordination Division
Mr P.B. Eccles, First Assistant Secretary, Maritime Safety Division
Mr I.R. Grigor, First Assistant Secretary, Sea Transport Policy Division
Mr T.R. Munyard, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Branch
Mr J . Walker, Senior Finance Officer, Finance and Services Branch
Ms F . Holthuyzen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Rail Branch
Mr D. McLennan, Acting Deputy Director, Bureau of Transport Economics
Mr G. Savas, Acting Secretary, Inter-State Commission
Mr 0. Rodda, Director Administration, Inter-State Commission
Department of Finance -Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 664-667 (Document A) Divisions 972-974 (Document B)
The Committee concluded its considerations of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Transport, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION.
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. A.T. Gietzelt, Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following officers:
135.
Department of Aviation -Mr K.H. Toakley, First Assistant Secretary, Resources Division
Mr R.C. O'Day, First Assistant Secretary, Flight Standards Division
Ms C. Goode, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division
Mr F.J. Adams, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Airways Division
Mr J.W. Huggett, Principal Advisor, Airports Division
Mr R . Elder, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Domestic Policy Division
Mr J. Wright, Assistant Secretary, Public Transport Branch
Mr D. Knox, Assistant Secretary, Airways Systems Branch
Mr M.J. Mayoh, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch
Mr T. Grant, Assistant Secretary, Systems
Development and ADP Branch
Mr G . Broomfield, Director, Budget Section, Finance Branch
Mr G.T. O'Halloran, Director, Resources and Program Co-ordination Unit, Airports Division
Mr W. Eckhardt, Director, Resources and Co ordination Unit, Airways Division
Department of Finance -Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration:
Division 193 (Document A)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Aviation, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
136.
10. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF TERRITORIES.
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. A . T . Gietzelt, Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Territories:
Mr J.A. Turner, Acting Deputy Secretary
Mr M.C. Woods, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat Division
Mr W.D. Tyrrell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch
Mr F.J. Brice, Acting First Assistant Secretary, External Territories and Legislation Division
Mr E. Davenport, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Development Division
Mr B. Dockrill, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Technical Services Division
Mr R. Donnellan, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Parks and Conservation Division
Mr G . Fraser, First Assistant Secretary, Housing and Welfare Division
Mr R.H. Collis, Acting Commissioner for Housing
Mr A. R . Hedley, First Assistant Secretary, Community Affairs Division
Mr R.J. O'Connell, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division
Mr N.J. Morgan, Acting Assistant Secretary, Self-Government Branch
Ms J. Emerton, Acting Director, Islands Management and Operations
National Capital Development Commission:
Mr B.M. Browning, Secretary and Manager
Mr A. C . Phillips, Assistant Secretary, Program Management
Christmas Island Administration:
Mr J. Flynn, Acting Director
Department of Finance -Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division. ,
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 620-628 (Document A) Division 959 (Document B )
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Territories, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
11. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1984-85 - DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES.
In Attendance: Senator the Hon. A.T. Gietzelt, Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following officers:
Department of Local Government and Administrative Services -Mr A.R. Palmer, Deputy Secretary
Mr W.D. Kennedy, Director of Property
Mr D. Rome, Assistant Secretary, Accommodation Operations Division, Property Directorate
Mr J.R. Clark, Senior Assistant Secretary, Overseas Property Office, Property Directorate
Mr B.E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage Division
Mr A. A. Hillier, First Assistant Secretary, Management Division
Mr M. Wood, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Management Division
Mr S. Wenger, Assistant Secretary, General and Personnel Services Branch, Management Division
Mr G. Hackett, Acting Director, Estimates and Funds Control Section, Finance Branch, Management Division
Department of Finance -Mr A.J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 130-132, 260 (Document A) Divisions 811-812 (Document B )
138.
12.
13.
14.
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Local Government and Administrative Services, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional
information to the Committee.
ITEMS FOR COMMITTEES REPORT: The Committee met in private session at 5.35 pm to consider items for the Committee's Report. The Committee agreed that two items be included:
. Alteration of Subdivision Expenditure . Statement of Savings Expected in Annual Appropriations.
ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.42 pm.
ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Georges (Chairman), Senators Hearn, Reid, Richardson, Townley and Vanstone. Senators Boswell, Collard and Vigor also attended.
(GEORGE GEORGES) Chairman
139.