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Estimates - Senate Committees - Report together with Hansard record of proceedings - Committees A, B, C, D, E and F on Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1987


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The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E and F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1986-87 and expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance for 1986-87

October 1986

Presented and ordered to be printed 17 October 1986

Parliamentary Paper No. 444/1986

P a r l i a m e n t a r y P a pe r No. 4 4 4 / 1 9 8 6

The P a r l i a m e n t of the

C o m m o n w e a l t h of A u s t r a l i a

S E N A T E E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E S

A ,B , C , D ,E , AND F

R e p o r t s to the S e n a t e on

D e p a r t m e n t a l E s t i m a t e s for

year 1 9 8 5 - 8 6 and E x p e n d i t u r e

u n d e r the A d v a n c e to the

M i n i s t e r for F i n a n c e for 1 9 8 5 - 8 6

O c t o b e r 1986

The C o m m o n w e a l t h G o v e r n m e n t P r i n t e r C a n b e r r a 1987

C o m m o n w e a l t h of A u s t r a l i a 19 87

IS BN 0 644 0 6 1 0 7 3

P r i n t e d by A u t h o r i t y by the C o m m o n w e a l t h G o v e r n m e n t P r i n t e r

1. Resolution of the Senate (v)

2. Membership of Committees (vi)

3. Estimates Committee A Report 3

Minutes of Proceedings 1986 16 September 1986 (2 meetings) 21

19 September 1986 30

25 September 1986 34

15 October 1986 40

Hansard - Index to Issues Raised in Public Hearings 43

4. Estimates Committee B Report 63

Minutes of Proceedings 1986 16 September 1986 69

19 September 1986 72

25 September 1986 75

15 October 1986 81

Hansard '

- Index to Issues Raised in Public Hearings 85 - Index to Issues Raised in Supplementary Information 93

5. Estimates Committee C Report 97

Hansard - Index to Issues Raised in Public Hearings 107

Minutes of Proceedings 1986 16 September 1986 137

19 September 1986 143

24 September 1986 147

25 September 1986 150

13 October 1986 154

15 October 1986 156

6. Estimates Committee D Report 159

Documents tabled during Public Hearings or Provided as additional information to the Committee 179

Minutes of Proceedings 18 September 1986 183

23 September 1986 187

29 September 1986 190

7 October 1986 193

14 October 1986 195

16 October 1986 199

Hansard - Index of Issues Raised in Public Hearings 202

CONTENTS PAGE

( i l l )

7. Estimates Committee E Report 225

Hansard - Index of Issues Raised in Public Hearings 253

Minutes of Proceedings 22 August 1986 267

18 September 1986 269

23 September 1986 273

26 September 1986 281

14 October 1986 283

8. Estimates Committee F Report 287

Minutes of Proceedings 18 September 1986 297

23 September 1986 306

16 October 1986 309

Hansard - Index to Issues Raised in Public Hearings 313

(iv)

RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED ON 22 AUGUST 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEES - REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86: The Manager of Government Business (Senator Grimes), pursuant to Notice of Motion not objected to as a Formal Motion, moved -

(1) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1987 in relation to the Parliamentary Departments, the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1987 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June

1987 be referred to Estimates Committees for examin­ ation and report.

(2) That expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1986 be referred to Estimates Committees for examination and report prior to its consideration in Committee of the Whole.

(3) That the Committees consider Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance in the Estimates Committee groupings agreed to by Resolution of the Senate of 22

February 1985*.

(4) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Friday, 17 October 1986.

*Estimates Committee Groups

Estimates Committee A Parliament Industry, Technology and Commerce

Prime Minister and Cabinet Trade Science

Estimates Committee B Community Services Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Social Security Health

Estimates Committee C Finance Employment and Industrial Relations Treasury Primary Industry Communications

Estimates Committee D Education Housing and Construction Sport, Recreation and

Tourism Arts, Heritage and Environment Aboriginal Affairs

Estimates Committee E Resources and Energy Attorney-General Special Minister of State Foreign Affairs Defence

Estimates Committee F Veterans' Affairs Transport Aviation Territories Local Government and

Administrative Services

(v)

MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

Senator Richardson (Chairman) Senator Alston ' Senator Cook. Senator Hill ' Senator Jessop Senator Ray Senator Short

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

Senator Giles (Chairman) Senator Peter Baume Senator Crowley Senator Elstob 3 Senator Messner " Senator Sheil ^ Senator Walters '

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Senator Childs (Chairman) Senator Boswell Senator Brownhill Senator Devlin Senator Maguire Senator Parer

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Senator Reynolds (Chairman) Senator Michael Baume ' Senator Cooney Senator Morris Senator Newman Senator Puplic^ Senator Teague '

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Senator McIntosh (Chairman) Senator Aulich Senator Michael Baume1 2 3 4 ' Senator Black Senator Sir John Carrick Senator MacGib^on Senator Teaguez '

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Senator Zakharov (Chairman) Senator Foreman Senator McKiernan Senator Reid Senator Townley Senator Vanstone

1. Appointed 21 August 1986 2. Discharged 21 August 1986 3. Discharged 6 May 1986 4. Appointed 6 May 1986

(vi)

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.

1. On 22 August 1986 the Senate referred to the

Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1986-87,

and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for 1985-86 ,

relating to the Parliament, the Department of Industry,

Technology and Commerce, the Department of Science, the

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and the Department

of Trade.

2. The Committee has considered the estimates

of the departments, together with the departmental explanatory

notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the

President of the Senate (Senator the Honourable Douglas

McClelland), the Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce

(Senator the Honourable John Button), the Minister for Education

(Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan) , and officials of the

Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and

Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are

tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with the

Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill 1986-87, the

Appropriation Bill (No 1) 1986-87 and the Appropriation Bill (No

2) 1986-87. Written answers provided subsequent to the

Committee's hearings will be tabled in the Senate and circulated

in bound volumes to all honourable Senators. 3

3. The Committee draws the attention of the

Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration

of the estimates.

3.

Parliament's appropriations

The Committee's Report to the Senate in

October 1985 dealt at some length with the question of the need

for the Parliament to achieve greater autonomy and independence

from the Executive in regard to its estimates and operations.

The Committee drew particular attention to the role of the

Senate Standing Committee on Appropriations and Staffing in

determining the appropriations of the Department of the Senate

and to the reference by the Government to a global, or total,

provision for Parliament. The Government's expectation being

that the Presiding Officers would adjust this allocation between

the various parliamentary departments prior to the inclusion of

the individual estimates in the Appropriation (Parliamentary

Departments) Bill.

On 2 December 1985 the Senate, having

considered this report, unanimously adopted a resolution which,

inter alia, reaffirmed the role of the Appropriations and

Staffing Committee in the estimates process and established a

consultative procedure for considering the estimates for the

expenditure of the Department of the Senate should the

Government not agree with the amounts previously determined by

the Appropriations and Staffing Committee.

During the hearings of the Committee in

April 1986 the President indicated that the problems encountered

in the determination of the 1985-86 estimates had not recurred

in relation to the additional estimates. In its report of May

1986 the Committee highlighted the words of the President when

he told the Committee:

4.

I believe that the Senate's resolution, together with the report of Estimates Committee A, has clarified the situation and that future consideration of the estimates should proceed more smoothly. This has been acknowledged to me by the Minister for Finance in a letter dated

13 March 1986.

In a statement to the Committee on 16 September 1986

the President outlined the main stages in the consultation

between the Presiding Officers and the Government on the 1986-87

estimates for the Senate. In February 1986 the Appropriations

and Staffing Committee, in considering a request from the

Minister for Finance to the Presiding Officers for a range of

saving options calculated at 2 percent, 4 percent and 6 percent

in the departmental first bids for 1986-87, agreed to reduce

these bids for the Department of the Senate by 5.1%, an amount

of $529,000. .

The Minister for Finance, in a letter of 23 July 1986,

advised a proposed subsequent reduction of the aggregated

funding level for the parliamentary departments for 1986-87 of

$2.3 million. In doing so the Minister again referred to a total

figure for the five parliamentary departments and indicated that

the Expenditure Review Committee had agreed that the Presiding

Officers should determine where the resulting expenditure

restraint was to fall.

As a result of this letter the President further

considered the estimates for the Department of the Senate and

additional reductions of $434,000 were made, giving a total

reduction of $963,000 or 8.6 percent of the Department's first

bids. The Government was informed accordingly.

The Appropriations and Staffing Committee subsequently

agreed to the reduction for the Department of the Senate and

determined that the amount for inclusion in the Appropriation

(Parliamentary Departments) Bill 1986-87 for the Senate would be

$9 ,342 ,000. As the President has indicated to the Committee and

to the Minister for Finance, this figure was only achievable by

the imposition of restraints on the services provided to

Senators and on departmental activities. The Committee notes

that it may be necessary for the Appropriations and Staffing

Committee to determine additional estimates at the appropriate

time.

While the consultative procedures set up in December 1985 were

generally adhered to, there are features of the estimates

process as it relates to the parliamentary departments which

remain of concern to the Committee. The Committee notes these

concerns, highlighted by the President when he gave evidence:

- the approach taken by the Government of including

the estimates for the Chamber departments within a

global figure for the Parliament is inappropriate

since it necessarily involves the President and

the Speaker in bargaining over the estimates of

the Chamber departments and undercuts the

constitutional separation of responsibilities of

the two Houses; and

- the use of a global figure appears to be

inconsistent with the Resolution of the Senate of

2 December 1985 in that it would involve the

Appropriations and Staffing Committee, through the

President, in direct negotiations with the Speaker

to determine the allocation of expenditure between

the Chamber departments.

The President has urged the Government to deal directly

with the Presiding Officers (the President, in the case of the

Senate, representing the Appropriations and Staffing Committee)

in finalising the estimates for the Chamber departments rather

6.

than to allocate a global figure to the Parliament, which must

then be divided by the Presiding Officers. The Committee,

recognising the spirit of the resolution of the Senate of 2

December 1985, repeats its belief that each House should have

control over its own appropriations and determine its own

priorities, taking into account the relevant expenditure and

staffing policies of the Government of the day. In a similar way

the Presiding Officers should together have control over the

appropriations of the three service departments.

The Committee therefore recommends that the practice of

allocating a global figure for the expenditure of all five

parliamentary departments be discontinued.

Commonwealth Record

The Committee has, in a number of recent'reports, noted

the expenditure involved in providing subscriptions to the

Commonwealth Record for Senators and has requested that the

Standing Committee on Appropriations and Staffing examine the

level of subscriptions to which Senators are entitled. In its

consideration of the first bids for 1986-87 for the Department

of the Senate, the Standing Committee on Appropriations and

Staffing agreed to a reduction in the entitlement to

subscriptions to the Commonwealth Record from ten to two per

Senator.

The new level of subscriptions involves an allocation

of $44 ,000 in the 1986-87 estimates. A circular sent to all

Senators in June this year indicated that a reduction in

subscriptions similar to that agreed to would result in a saving

of $53,000; in the event the actual saving is $31,644. The

Committee was told that this discrepancy arises from the fact

that the main recipients of the Commonwealth Record are Senators

and Members and that a reduction in the overall number of

subscriptions results in an increase in the cost of each

subscription. The cost of each annual subscription has risen

from $112 in September 1982, to $144 in November 1984, to $280

in January 1986, to $488 in September 1986.

In the light of the stringent financial climate within

which the Parliament is required to operate; the fact that other

services to Senators are being curtailed, for example, the

entitlement to newspapers; that the material contained in the

Commonwealth Record is largely non-parliamentary in nature and

is available from other, more timely, sources; and, that the

Parliament appears to bear the majority of the costs associated

with the production of the Commonwealth Record; the Committee

recommends to the Standing Committee on Appropriations and

Staffing, through the President, that consideration be given to

removing completely the entitlement of Senators to subscriptions

to the Commonwealth Record.

Senate Information Systems

The Committee notes with some concern that priority is

not being given to the issue of compatibility between the

information systems equipment in the Parliament House offices

of Senators and the equipment in their electorate offices to

ensure the maximum possible benefit to all users. The Committee

was informed by the President and a senior official from the

Department of the Senate that the Department of Special Minister

of State request for tender for electorate office information

systems equipment had, with Ministerial approval, been amended

to make compatibility between the two sets of equipment "highly

desirable" rather than "mandatory".

The Committee shares with the Government the view that

there is a need to maximise the participation of Australian

companies in this enterprise. Indeed the Committee has raised

this question with the President on previous occasions and has

received assurances that a strategy is being developed for the

8.

introduction of information systems equipment in Parliament

House which will, wherever possible, involve Australian

companies.

In evidence to the Committee the President indicated

that he had asked officials of the Department of the Senate to

make arrangements for discussions to take place between the

Presiding Officers and the relevant Ministers, and between

officials of all appropriate departments to address the issues

raised by the compatibility question. The Committee commends the

President in taking this initiative.

The Committee recommends to all parties - Parliamentary

and Executive - that these consultations take place during the

evaluation of the tenders of the Department of the Senate and of

the Department of the Special Minister of State in a spirit of

co-operation and mutual trust. This will assist the achievement

of full compatibility between the two sets of equipment and

maximise benefits from the new technology to all users.

Schools Education Kit

The Committee was pleased to receive evidence from the

President and officials of the Department of the Senate on the

development of the education kit on the Parliament which will be

distributed to schools in Australia during 1987. The Committee

commends the officials responsible for the progress which has

been made in the production of the kit, one of the most exciting

and ambitious projects to be undertaken by the Parliament.

Program Budgeting

In October 1985 the Minister for Finance announced

that, following a pilot study, program budgeting would be

introduced progressively in all Commonwealth departments and

budget-dependent agencies. One of the aims of program budgeting

9.

is to focus budgetary processes, including parliamentary

scrutiny, more clearly on the purposes of government programs

and on the efficiency and effectiveness of particular

activities. In order to allow this questioning of the

performance of particular departmental programs and sub-programs

to take place, appropriate documentation must be provided in the

explanatory notes. This applies particularly to the provision of

measures or indicators of performance for each program or

sub-program. The Committee noted in October 1985 that during the

pilot study the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce

had only made available a few measures of performance, thereby

handicapping the examination of the department's estimates. The

Committee is therefore pleased to note that the Department has

developed and included reasonably precise performance indicators

for most of its sub-programs. The value and appropriateness of

these indicators can only be measured by the quality of the

evaluative material produced. The Committee, therefore, looks

forward to receiving material on the measurement of these

performance indicators at subsequent hearings.

The Department of Science has adopted program budgeting

for 1986-87 and presented its explanatory notes in this format.

The Committee was impressed with the overall presentation of the

material but noted that the performance sections for each

sub-program were generally couched in descriptive terms and did

not indicate clearly established objective criteria for the

evaluation of the performance of the particular sub-program. The

Committee recognises that this is the Department's first venture

into program budgeting and it anticipates that the performance

sections of the documentation will be enhanced during the coming

year.

The Committee again noted that there were discrepancies

between the amounts for outlays in the explanatory notes

provided by the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce

and the relevant Portfolio Program Statement. In a tabled

10.

statement the Department submitted that these discrepancies

could be explained in terms of differences between itself and

the Department of Finance in the allocation of funds to

sub-programs and the classification of some revenue items. The

Department provided detailed attachments to illustrate this

point. While the Department has done what was required of it in

providing an explanation for these discrepancies, it remains of

concern to the Committee that departmental figures, as contained

in the Explanatory Notes, are at variance with those in the

Portfolio Program Statement. The Committee recommends that

appropriate consultation take place between officials of the

relevant departments with a view to rectifying these

discrepancies in future estimates documents.

During the examination of the estimates for the Office

of Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (Division 508

- within the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet) the

question of identifying the total cost involved in establishing

a new agency was raised. The Committee was told that some costs

associated with the setting up of the new office were contained

in other portfolios, for example, the Department of Local

Government and Administrative Services.

This problem highlights one of the major benefits which

will accrue from the full implementation of program budgeting.

The true cost attributable to each sub-program or program

element will be readily available in the estimates documents.

With respect to the example in question the Committee notes the

existing difficulty which occurs in identifying the full costs

associated with Government initiatives such as this. The

Committee also draws attention to the more general problem,

which currently exists in identifying the ongoing costs of

already established government agencies. The Committee will

continue to examine critically the total costs associated with

government activities as the program budgeting format is

progressively introduced.

The Committee was satisfied with the format and

presentation of the Explanatory Notes and the Portfolio Program

Statement, particularly those provided by the Public Service

Board. With respect to the Explanatory Notes provided by the

departments on program budgeting, the Committee noted that

greater compliance with the detail of the Department of Finance

guidelines for the format of the explanatory notes would

increase the ease with which they can be scrutinised. The

Committee was especially impressed with the self-contained

nature of the Explanatory Notes including the user guide, the

diagrammatic presentation of the program structure, the summary

table showing outlays and staffing by sub-programs, and the

reconciliation between the program estimates and the

Appropriation Bills.

This reconciliation will remain a necessary feature of

the explanatory notes while the format used for program

budgeting is incompatible with that used for the Appropriation

Bills. As the Committee noted in its Report to the Senate,

tabled on 11 October 1985, the Parliament may need to re-examine

the way in which it appropriates funds. The need for this

re-examination is now even more pertinent in that all remaining

departments will move to program budgeting in 1987-88.

The Committee therefore recommends that the Standing

Committee on Finance and Government Operations, in the context

of its reference to examine the impact of program budgeting on

the presentation of estimates documents, consider the format of

the Appropriation Bills. As noted in the Committee's Report to

the Senate in October 1985, this examination would also require

consideration of the relevant constitutional issues and of the

existing agreement on the content of the two Appropriation

Bills.

12.

The Committee further recommends that Senators and

their research staff be provided with a detailed briefing by

officials of the Department of Finance on the significant

changes to financial accounting entailed in the change to

program budgeting.

Youth Affairs Program - Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet

In its Report to the Senate at the time of the

additional estimates in May this year, the Committee was

critical of some features of the evidence given by the official

designated to answer questions on the Youth Affairs program. The

Committee is pleased to note that on this occasion the

Department provided a senior official from the Office of Youth

Affairs who was able to provide detailed information on the

matters of interest to the Committee.

Australian Bicentennial Authority

The Committee noted with concern that the Explanatory

Notes for the Australian Bicentennial Authority were not

provided by the deadline suggested by the Department of Finance

and were only forthcoming after some prompting. At the hearing

many of the answers provided by the officials of the Australian

Bicentennial Authority were provisional and a number of

questions were taken on notice. After the degree of questioning

which this aspect of Government expenditure attracted at the

hearings of the Committee in 1985, and the parliamentary and

public interest in these hearings, it was disappointing to the

Committee that officials with the appropriate knowledge were not

available. Those who did attend appeared to be inadequately

briefed on the range of activities being undertaken by the

Authority. The Committee trusts that this situation will not

occur again.

13.

Officials Attending Hearings of Estimates Committees

Estimates Committees have from time to time drawn the

attention of the Senate to the fact that Ministers have been

accompanied by officials who were inadequately briefed.

Estimates Committee A in a Report to the Senate in October 1976

stated "that the Minister should be accompanied by an officer or

officers of the most senior levels of the [Senior Executive

Service] who should be able to give answers to the breadth and

responsibility not necessarily available to officers of lesser

levels in the Department." The most frequent consequence of the

appearance of insufficiently briefed officials is that a large

number of questions are taken on notice. While the Committee

recognises that the device of questions being taken on notice is

a valuable adjunct to the provision of oral answers at the

hearings, it does limit the development of a line of questioning

about a particular aspect of a department's estimates.

During the hearings on the 1986-87 estimates the

Committee noted a wide discrepancy in the capacity of officials

to provide an appropriate level of information in response to

questions from Senators. This was observable both within the

same department and between different departments. Generally the

Committee was satisfied with the amount of oral information

supplied and the relatively low number of questions taken on

notice, especially during the consideration of the estimates of

the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce and the

Department of Science.

The Committee, however, was disappointed with the

apparent inability of some officials from the Department of

Prime Minister and Cabinet to provide adequate information and

with the large number of questions which were taken on notice.

This occurred particularly during consideration of division 500,

sub-divisions 1 and 2 (see Estimates Committee A, Hansard,

25 September 1986, pp. 809-814) and division 504 (Estimates

14.

Committee A, Hansard, 25 September 1986, pp. 827-828). The

Committee's disappointment in this aspect of the examination of

the estimates for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet

was compounded by the fact that in spite of the presence of a

large number of officials at the hearing, none was apparently

able to assist the official at the table. The Committee was also

concerned that a senior official of the Department felt

constrained in answering a question from a Senator present at

the hearings of the Committee because a similar question had

been asked on notice in the House of Representatives and the

answer had not as yet been provided. After some insistence the

official provided the answer. The Committee believes this to be

no more than an example of a lack of understanding of the

procedures of the Estimates Committee and recommends that

greater opportunities be created to allow departmental officials

to become familiar with the workings of Senate Committees.

By way of contrast the Committee was impressed by the

detailed answers given by other officials from the Department of

the Prime Minister and Cabinet, namely, from the Office of the

Status of Women (Hansard, 25 September 1986 , pp. 816-823) and

from the Office of Youth Affairs (Hansard, 25 September 1986,

pp.824-826) as well as by the information provided by officials

from the Public Service Board (Hansard 25 September 1986, pp.

836-847).The Committee encourages the Department to look at ways

of ensuring consistency in the briefing of those officials

accompanying the Minister.

In making this observation the Committee recognises the

difficulties which face officials as they prepare for the

hearings of Estimates Committees. Nevertheless the Committee

believes that if more attention is given to the attendance by

adequately briefed officials with appropriate experience and

seniority, the Estimates Committee hearings will be valuable and

rewarding for all participants.

The future work of Estimates Committees

As the Committee reported in October 1985 there are

important issues relating to the work of Estimates Committees

which will need to be addressed by the Senate as program

budgeting becomes the Public Service norm. This comment is

particularly apposite with the announcement that program

budgeting is to be adopted by all departments and budget

dependent agencies.

The Estimates Committees have played an important role

in the establishment of the Senate committee system as a

valuable component in the scrutiny of government activity in

Australia. There is, however, sufficient evidence among

participants in the work of the Estimates Committees to suggest

that there is no room for complacency in this aspect of the

financial scrutiny in our parliamentary system. At this time,

with a major change in financial management about to be

implemented throughout the public sector, a unique opportunity

exists to review the role, procedures and operations of the

Estimates Committees. The issues identified by the Committee in

its Report to the Senate in October 1985 (p.19) remain relevant

and should form the basis of such an inquiry. In the view of

Estimates Committee A it is vital that such a review take place

if the Estimates Committees are to maintain their pre-eminent

role in the parliamentary examination and scrutiny of the

expenditure of the Government.

The Committee recommends that a comprehensive review of

the role, procedures and operations of the Estimates Committees,

in their consideration of proposed expenditure under the

Appropriation Bills, be undertaken.

16.

GENERAL

The Committee expresses its appreciation of the

assistance given by the President, the Minister for Industry,

Technology and Commerce, the Minister for Education and the

officials of the various departments and authorities who

appeared before the Committee.

' \ u_i·- ,.Lf , - i . «>-·.. "M

(Graham Richardson)

Chairman

17 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA. ACT.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO.14

TUESDAY 16 SEPTEMBER 1986

1· MEETING

The Committee met in private session at .4.25 pm.

The Chairman (Senator Richardson) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87

The Chairman reported the resolution of the Senate of 22 August 1986 referring the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for 1985-86 to the Committee.

3. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE

The Chairman reported the resolution of the Senate of 21 August 1986 discharging Senator Hill and appointing Senator Alston.

4· CONSIDERATION OF EXPENDITURE

The Committee agreed to examine departmental estimates referred to it in the following order:

Parliamentary Departments Industry, Technology and Commerce Science Prime Minister and Cabinet Trade

5. DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY,_TECHNOLOGY___ AND____COMMERCE ; DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE BOARD

The Committee agreed to consider the estimates for the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce; the Department

21.

of Science and the Public Service Board by program and

sub-program, utilising the tables on pages 139, 218 and 195 of the document, Portfolio Program Statements 1986-87 respectively, and the appropriate explanatory notes.

6. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 4.30pm.

7. ATTENDANCE

Senators Richardson (Chairman), Alston, Cook, Jessop, Ray, and Short.

CONFIRMED:

l l* 1 i

(Graham Richardson) Chairman

> * ,

AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA, A CT.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 15

TUESDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 4.30pm. The Chairman (Senator Richardson) took the Chair. ■

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN

The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the

estimates of the following departments referred by the Senate for consideration: Parliamentary departments; Industry, Technology and Commerce; Science; Prime Minister and Cabinet; Trade.

3. PARTICULARS__OF___ PROPOSED___ EXPENDITURE___ 1986-87___ = PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

In_attendance: Senator the Hon. Douglas McClelland, President of the Senate, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Senate

Mr A.R. Gumming Thom, Clerk of the Senate Mr T.H.G. Wharton, Clerk-Assistant (Management) Mr H. Evans, Clerk-Assistant (Procedure) Miss A. Lynch, Clerk-Assistant (Committees) Mr P.N. Murdoch, Clerk-Assistant (Table) Mr R. Alison, Usher of the Black Rod Mr M. Goodall, Principal Parliamentary Officer

(Information Systems) Mr J . Vander Wyk, Principal Parliamentary Officer (Research and Education) Mr D. Abbott, Principal Parliamentary Officer

(Parliamentary Relations) Mr G. Nankervis, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Administration)

23.

Mr J. Dyer, Senior Parliamentary Officer

(Parliamentary Relations) Mr W. Adam, Parliamentary Officer, Senators' Services Mrs J.F. Underwood, Project Officer, Education Kit on the Parliament

Department_of_the_Parliamentary_Rsporting_Staff

Mr J.M. Campbell, Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr R.T. Martin, Assistant Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr M.J. Farrelley, Administrative Officer

Department of the Parliamentary Library

Mr H. de S.C.Maclean, Parliamentary Librarian Mr M.J. Brudenall, Deputy Parliamentary Librarian Mrs D.M. Bennett, Head, Legislative Research Service Mr E.G. Dobson, Director, Systems Group Mr H. Knight, Acting Senior Executive Officer Mr J. Domitrak, Acting Finance Officer Mr R.G. Kemp, Estimates Officer Ms J. MacDonald, New Parliament House Project Officer

Joint House Department

Mr J.W. Foley, Acting Secretary Mr F. Bradley, Assistant Secretary (Operations) Mr N. Kelly, Director, Management Services

Depa_rtment_of_Finance

Ms Marie Brennan, Senior Finance Officer Grade 1, Financial Management and Accounting Policy

Division Mr Mark Fleeton, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Defence and Government Division

The President made an introductory statement prior to consideration of the estimates of each parliamentary department.

The Chairman called on the following divisions for examination:

Division 101 Division 102 Division 105

Division 106 Division 107 Division 108

Department of the Senate Advance to the President of the Senate Department of the Parliamentary

Reporting Staff Department of the Parliamentary Library Joint House Department Joint Advance to the President and the

Speaker

24.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the parliamentary departments, subject to undertakings by the President to provide additional

information.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL

I n_attendance: Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Office_pf_the_GoyernorrGeneral

Mr D. Smith, Official Secretary Lieutenant-Colonel G. Warner, Comptroller to the Governor-General Mr C. Bell, Senior Executive Officer

Ms L. Huey, Administrative & Finance Officer Ms S. Horvath, Administrative & Finance Officer

DSBSrtment_of_Finanee

The Chairman called on the following divisions for consideration:

Division 506 - Governor-General's Office and

Establishments

Division 937 - Capital Works and Services

Sub-division 01 - Governor-General's Office and Establishments

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Office of the Governor-General.

5. PARTICULARS OF__ PROPOSED EXPENDITURE__ 19 86r 19 87__ = DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COEMMERCE

In_attendance: Senator the Hon John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

Corporate_Strategy_and_Seryices_Division

Mr Rolfe Hoppe, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Brian Meredyth, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Branch

Mr John Grant, Director, Resources Management

Bureau of Industry Economics

Mr Mike Cronin, Deputy Director

Mght_and_Service_Industries_Division

Mr Jim Belshaw, Assistant Secretary, Electronics, Aerospace and Information Industries Branch Hs§Yy_IndustrY_Sectors_Division

Mr Geoff Hallinan, Assistant Secretary, Engineering Branch

Industry Infrastructure Division

Mr John Hawksworth, Assistant Secretary, Finance, Taxation and Business Practices Branch

Technology and Business Efficiency Division

Ms Joy Selby-Smith, Assistant Secretary, Technology Programs Branch

Mr John McKenna, Assistant Secretary, Technology Development Branch

Mr Bruce Bryant, Assistant Secretary, Industry Services Branch

Mr Barry Smith, Assistant Secretary, Australian Industrial Research, and Development Grants Board

Automptiye_Industry_Au£ho£ity

Mr Bill Scales, Chief Executive Mr Paul Woodham, Executive Officer

Industries Assistance Commission

Dr Max Parker, Head of Office

Mr Alan Cahill, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch

Mr Ken Mourant, Director, Management Operations Section

Australian_Customs_Servicg

Mr D. O'Connor, First Assistant Comptroller-General, Barrier Division

Mr D. Griffiths, Acting First Assistant

Comptroller-General, Management Division

Mr G. Steele, First Assistant Comptroller-General, Dumping Division

26.

Mr T. Slater, First Assistant Comptroller-General, Systems Division

Mr H. McMahon, Assistant Comptroller-General, Resources Excise and Bounties Branch, Inland Revenue Division

Mr P. English, Assistant Comptroller-General, Dumping Policy Branch, Dumping Division

Mr J. Conlon, Assistant Comptroller-General, Commercial Division

Mr J . Hall, Acting Assistant,Comptroller-General, Resources Management Branch, Management Division

Mr B. Wilkinson, Director, Planning and Review Section, Inland Revenue Division

Mr J . Bridge, Director, Finance Section, Management Division

Mr B. Fitzpatrick, Acting Director, Organisation Development Section, Management Division

Bepartment_of_Finance

Ms Marie Brennan, Senior Finance Officer Grade 1, Financial Management Accounting & Policy Division

Mr Steve Rylands, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport & Industry Division

Ms Cathy McKay, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2,

Transport & Industry Division

Mr Keith Vernon, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport & Industry Division

The Chairman called on the following program for

consideration: Program 1 :Industry Policy and Development

Further consideration of the estimates of the

Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce was postponed to Friday, 19 September 1986, to enable consideration of the estimates of the Commission for the Future, the Australian Institute of Marine Science, the National Standards Commission and the Antarctic Division of the Department of Science.

5. PARTICULARS___OF___ PROPOSED___ EXPENDITURE___ 19 86= 87___ -DEPARTMENT_OF_SCIENCE

I n_attendance: Senator the Hon John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Dr R.M. Green, Deputy Secretary, Department of Science Dr A.R. Jensen, Assistant Secretary, Resources Management Mr G.w. Bullivant, Director, Resource Planning

Mr C . A. Webster, Assistant Secretary, Grants &

Fellowships Ms R. Galbally, Director, Commission for the Future Dr M.M. Gore, Interim Director, Australian Science & Technology Centre Dr C.J. Dahl, Deputy Australian Government Analyst Mr R. Moncur, Deputy Director, Antarctic Division Dr J.W. Zillman, Director, Bureau of Meteorology Mr P.A. Spehr, Assistant Director, Management, Bureau of Meteorology Dr I. McCay, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Industrial Property Policy & Coordination Branch, Patent, Trade Marks and Designs Office Mr K.S. Stokes, Director, Resource Management, Patent, Trade Marks & Designs Mr J.A. Birch, Executive Director, National Standards Commission Mr H.A. Wray, Finance Officer, National Standards Commission Dr J.T. Baker, Director, Australian Institute of Marine

Science

Department_of_Finance

Ms Marie Brennan, Senior Finance Officer Grade 1, Financial Management Accounting & Policy Division Mr Steve Rylands, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport & Industry Division

Ms Cathy McKay, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2,

Transport & Industry Division Mr Keith Vernon, Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport & Industry Division

The Chairman called on the following sub-programs and program for consideration:

Sub-program 1.3 : Commission for the Future Sub-program 1.5 : Australian Institute of Marine Science Sub-program 2.5 : National Standards Commission Program 5 : Antarctic

Further consideration of the estimates of the

Department of Science was postponed to Friday, 19 September 1986.

28.

6. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 11.33pm.

7. NEXT MEETING

The Committee adjourned to Friday, 19 September 1986.

8. ATTENDANCE

Senators Richardson (Chairman), Alston, Cook, Jessop, Ray and Short. Senators Archer, Chaney, Powell and Vigor also attended.

CONFIRMED:

V'v'N

Graham Richardson) Chairman

29.

> * 7

ySSfci

AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA, A.C.T.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OP PROCEEDINGS

No.16

TUESDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 9.02am. The Chairman (Senator Richardson) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS___ OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87___ -

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

In attendance; Senator the Hon John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Industry. Technology and Commerce

Corporate Strategy and Services Division:

Mr Rolf Hoppe, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Brian Meredyth, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Branch Mr John Grant, Director, Resources Management

Bureau of Industry Economics:

Mr Rob McKeon, Assistant Director

Light and Service_Industries Division;

Mr Jim Belshaw, Assistant Secretary, Electronics, Aerospace and Information Industries Branch

30.

Heavy_Industry_Sections_Division:

Ms Virginia Stretton, Assistant Secretary, Chemicals Plastics and Biotechnology Branch Mr John Hawksworth, Assistant Secretary, Finance, Taxation and Business Practices Branch

Technology and Business Efficiency Division;

Ms Joy Selby-Smith, Assistant Secretary, Technology Programs Branch

Mr Phil Smith, Director, Technological Change Section Mr Bruce Bryant, Assistant Secretary, Industry Services Branch Mr John Vincent, Director, Administration,

Australian Industrial Research and Development Grants Board Mr Frank Montgomery, Program Management and Co-Ordination, Australian Industrial Research

and Development Grants Board

Automotive Industry Authority:

Mr Bill Scales, Chief Executive Mr Paul Woodham, Executive Officer

Industries_Assistance_Commission:

Dr Max Parker, Head of Office Mr Alan Cahill, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch Mr Ken Mourant, Director, Management Operations

Section

Australian Customs Service:

Mr F. Kelly, Deputy Comptroller-General Mr D. O'Connor, First Assistant Comptroller-General Barrier Division Mr T. Slater, First Assistant Comptroller-General

Systems Division Mr B. Docherty, Assistant Comptroller-General Personnel Management Branch Mr H. McMahon, Assistant Comptroller-General

Resources Excise and Bounties Branch Inland Revenue Divison Mr P. English, Assistant Comptroller-General Dumping Policy Branch Dumping Division Mr J. Conlon, Assistant Comptroller-General

Import Control Branch Commercial Division Mr J. Hall, Acting Assistant Comptroller-General Resources Management Branch Management Division

3

Mr B. Wilkinson, Director Planning and Review Section Inland Revenue Division Mr J. Bridge, Director Finance Section Management Division Mr B. Fitzpatrick, Acting Director Organisation

Development Section Management Division

SSB3-Etment_of_Financg:

Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr K. Vernon, Chief Finance Officer, Grade 2,

Transport and Industry Division Mr V. Iglesias, Senior Finance Officer Grade 1, Transport and Industry Division

Consideration resumed of the estimates of the

Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce. The Chairman called on the following programs for

consideration:

Program 1 : Program 2 : Program 3 : Program 4 : Program 5 :

Industry Policy and Development Customs Excise Corporate Services - Customs Industries Assistance Commission

(The expenditures proposed for these programs are included in divisions 380-386 and 911-915, as contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents.)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce, subject to the undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

PARTICULARS___OF___PROPOSED___ EXPENDITURE___ 1986=87___ z DEPARTMENT OF PRIME_MINISTER_AND CABINET

In_attendance: Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

9§B3£tSSBt_of_the_Prime_Ministgr_and_Cabinet

Mr R. Harvey, First Assistant Secretary, Bicentenary and Community Relations Division Mr T. O'Sullivan, Assistant Secretary, Bicentennial Programs Branch

Au§i£3 li3 Q_Bicenterinial_ Authority

Mr R.B. Maher, Acting Chief Executive Mr W.C. Fairbanks, General Manager, Finance and Administration

32.

BSESiiment_of_Finance

Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

The Chairman called on the following division for examination:

Division 517 - Australian Bicentennial Authority

Further consideration of the estimates of the

Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet was postponed to Thursday 25 September 1986.

ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 4.24pm.

NEXT MEETING

The Committee adjourned to Thursday, 25 September 1986.

ATTENDANCE .

Senators Richardson (Chairman). Alston, Cook, Jessop, Ray and Short.

(Graham Richardson) Chairman

33 .

A, A U S T R A L I A , &

AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBFRRA. A C T.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 1 7

THURSDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER 1986

MEETING

The Committee met at 5.00pm. The Chairman (Senator Richardson) took the Chair.

PARTICULARS___OF___ PROPOSED___EXPENDITURE___ 1986=87___ = DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE

In_attendance: Senator the Hon John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Department_of_Science -Mr W.N. Hurst, Acting Deputy Secretary, Department of Science Dr A.R. Jensen, Assistant Secretary,

Resources Management Mr G.W. Bullivant, Director, Resource Planning Mr C.A. Webster, Assistant Secretary,

Grants and Fellowships Mr A. MacIntyre, Assistant Director, Australian Science and Technology Centre Ms M. Graham, Assistant Secretary,

Secretariat Dr C.J. Dahl, Deputy Australian Government Analyst Dr J.W. Zillman, Director, Bureau of

Meteorology Ms B.F. Dixon, Canberra Liaison, Executive Officer, Bureau of Meteorology

Dr. I. McCay, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Industrial Property Policy and Coordination Branch, Patent, Trade Marks and Designs Office Mr K.S. Stokes, Director, Resource

Management, Patent, Trade Marks and Designs Office

Commonwealth___Scientific___ and__.Industrial___ Research Organisation:

Dr N.J. Sullivan, Acting Corporate Secretary Mr H.C. Crozier, General Manager, Finance & Administration Mr D.M. Daly, Office of Executive Mr I.L. Farrer, Manager (Budget) Mr J.H. Payne, Chief Finance Officer Mr K.N. Bedford, Chief Finance Officer Mr R.A. Riches, Senior Finance Officer Ms J . Colefax, Finance Officer

9epartment_of_Finance:

Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 1, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Consideration resumed of the estimates of the Department of Science. The Chairman called on the following programs for consideration:

Program 4 : Program 7 :

Program 1 : Program 2 : Program 3 :

Program 6 :

Meteorology Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation Scientific Development

Scientific Services Industrial Property Corporate Services

(The expenditures proposed for these programs are included in divisions 540-554 and 945, as contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents.)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Science, subject to the undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

Questions on notice submitted by Senator Vigor were, by leave, incorporated in Hansard.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE _ 1986^87_ -

D E P A R T M E N T S THE PRIME MINISTER AND_CAB I NET

In attendance: Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet;

Mr P.A. Selth, Manager, Corporate Services Group Mr G.E. Nichols, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Government Branch Mr A. Kaspura, First Assistant Secretary, Office of

Youth Affairs Dr K. Keogh, Senior Advisor, Office of Youth Affairs Ms S. Brooks, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the

Status of Women Mr R. Harvey, C.V.O., First Assistant Secretary, Bicentenary and Community Relations Division Mr T. O'Sullivan, Assistant Secretary,

Bicentennial Programs Branch Mr M. Johnston, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division Mr A.J. Mann, A/Assistant Secretary,

Resources Management Branch Mr B. Hoffman, Official Establishments Section

Econpmic_Planning_Advisory_Cpunc.il:

Mr F. Argy, Director, E.P.A.C. Mr I. Cuming, Administrative Officer Ms L. Lesueur, Executive Assistant

Office_of_National_Assessmpnts:

Mr T.K. O'Brien, Acting Deputy Director General Mr N. Denning, Chief Executive Officer, Management Services

Commonwealth_Ombudsman:

AVM J.C. Jordon, Deputy Commonwealth Ombudsman Mr B. Hugg, Executive Officer

M s t ralian_Science_and_Technplggy_Cgunc.il:

Mr M. Lester, Assistant Secretary, A.S.T.E.C.

Pub1ic_Service_Board:

Ms A. Buttsworth, Secretary Mr N.T. Kenway, First Assistant Commissioner, Personnel Management Division Mr I.A. Hansen, Director, Interchange and

Graduate Induction Section Mr M.C. White, Director, Recruitment Operations Section Mr C.E. Bannerman, Deputy Director,

Senior Executive Staffing Unit

36.

Ms G.G. Radford, AM, Director, Equal Employment Opportunity Bureau Ms M.A. Stanton, Assistant Commissioner, Industrial Democracy and Working

Practices Branch Mr C.G. Mobbs, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Overseas Branch Mr A. Chappie, Assistant Commissioner,

Pay and Classification Division Mr B.A. Leahy, Director, Pay (General) Section Mr A. Sirr, Senior Assistant Commissioner,

Pay and Classification Division Mr J.D. Sobell, Principal Project Officer, Management Improvement Division Ms R. Medd, Assistant Commissioner,

Management Branch Mr J.P. Henchy, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Research and Information Branch Mr M. Bonsey, Assistant Commissioner,

Legislation and General Branch

Merit Protection Review Agency: .

Mr P. Gifford, Director

Pepartment_of_Finance

Ms Ruth Kidd, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Education and Employment Division Mr J. Dun, Senior Finance Officer,

Grade 2, Education and Employment Division Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 1, Financial Management and

E Accounting Policy Division

Consideration resumed of the estimates of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. The Chairman called on the following divisions for examination:

Divisions 500, 504, 508, 510, 511, 512, 513, 518, 519,937 and 938

The Chairman called on the estimates for the Public Service Board. The following programs were considered:

Program 1 : Program 2 :

Program 3 : Program 4 :

Staff Working Environment, Conditions Management Improvement

Corporate Services

Pay and

(The expenditures proposed for these programs are included in the divisions 516 and 940, as contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents.)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

Questions on notice submitted by Senators Short and Vigor were, by leave, incorporated in Hansard.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 -DEPARTMENT OF TRADE

In_attendance: Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:

Department_of_T_£;ad§

Mr P. Connolly, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr R. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Group Mr N. Davis, Acting Principal Adviser,

Bilateral Trade Relations Group Mr P. Jenkins, Assistant Secretary, Bilateral Trade Relations Group Mr P. Hassin, Acting First Assistant

Secretary, Co-ordination and Review Office Mr R. Filmer, Principal Adviser, Economic and Trade Development Group Mr E. Wilshire, Executive Director, Trade

Development Council Secretariat Mr L. Fallick, Consultant, Trade Development Council Secretariat Dr J. Brooks, First Assistant Secretary,

Minerals and Energy Group Mr B. Meere, Principal Adviser, Minerals and Energy Group Mr G. Brennan, Assistant Secretary, Minerals

and Energy Group Mr W. Rigg, Acting Assistant Secretary, Agricultural Trade Group Mr K. Barber, Assistant Secretary,

Corporate Services Group Ms M. Messner, Acting Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Group

Austrade

Mr E. Exell, Deputy Managing Director Dr R. Webb, General Manager, Export Development Group

38.

Mr P. Hartigan, Manager, National Operations Mr G. Bellchambers, Manager, International Operations Mr P. Boys, Acting General Manager,

Market Development Grants Group Dr R. Fisher, General Manager, Finance, Insurance and Insurance Group Mr S. Ryan, Manager, Resources and

Services

Department of Finance

Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer I, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr G. Britt, Senior Finance Officer II,

Transport and Industry Division

The Chairman called on the following divisions for consideration:

Divisions 640, 642, 643, 964, 965 and 966

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Trade, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

Questions on notice submitted by Senators Jessop and Short were, by leave, incorporated in Hansard.

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 2.18am.

6. NEXT MEETING

The Committee adjourned to a time

decided.

to be

7. ATTENDANCE

Senators Richardson (Chairman). Cook . Ray and Short. Apologies were received from Senators and Jessop. Senators Archer, Michael

Vanstone and Vigor were also present.

Robert

Alston Baume,

CONFIRMED:

\ <—· * \ - v.- ί i -v"

(Graham Richardson) Chairman

39.

> * 1

AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA, A.C.T.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

No. 18

WEDNESDAY 15 OCTOBER 1986

1. MEETING

The Committee met in deliberative session at 9.07am and in Senate Committee Room 8. The Chairman (Senator Richardson) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

The Minutes of meetings held on 16, 19 and 25 September 1986 were confirmed.

3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE

The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report to the Senate.

Resolved: That the draft report, with amendments, be agreed to.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 9.34am.

5. ATTENDANCE

Senators Richardson (Chairman), Alston, Cook, Ray and Short. Apology received from Senator Jessop.

Certified Correctj_^

(Graham Richardson) Chairman

40.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED

IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

Page

1

2

4

4-5

5-6

6

6-7

7

7

7-8

8

9

9

10

10

SENATE

SENATE COMMITTEE A

HANSARD

Tuesday 16 September 1986

INDEX OF ISSUES

Format: in order of discussion

Issue

Opening statement by Chairman

PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

President's statement and tabled · correspondence

concerning estimates of the Department of the Senate.

DEPARTMENT OF THE SENATE

Subscription to Commonwealth Record

Electorate office microcomputers

Cost of printing, binding and distribution of Bills

and other papers

Uniforms for attendants

Departmental entertainment

Subscriptions and library purchases

Schools Information Kit

Corporate planning program

Hire of equipment

Security arrangements and training

Inter-Parliamentary Union delegations

Advance to the President of the Senate

43 .

Page Issue

DEPARTMENT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REPORTING STAFF

10 President's statement

11-12 Salaries of reporters and problems of recruitment

12-13 Methods of reporting Parliament

13 Award rates and recruitment efforts

13 Hansard working environment and incidence of RSI

13 Changes to reporting shifts

DEPARTMENT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY LIBRARY

14 President's statement

14 Reductions in expenditure on Bicentenary publications

proj ect

14-15 Movement of the Library to the new Parliament House

15 Recruitment of specialist librarians

15 Response time to requests for information

15-16 Cost savings in cancellation of provincial newspapers

16-17 Workers compensation payments

JOINT HOUSE DEPARTMENT

17 President's statement

17 24 hour staff roster

17 Movement to the new Parliament House

18 Expenditure on small-wares for the new Parliament House 18 Maintenance of the existing Parliamentary bowling green 18 Parliamentary dining room accounts outstanding

18-19 Use of credit cards in the dining room

19 Travelling expenses

19 Security equipment purchases

19 Allocation of furniture and fittings for the

Parliamentary Library and the Parliamentary Reporting

Staff

44,

Issue

20

20

22

22

22-24

24- 25

25

25- 26

26- 27

27- 28

28- 29

29- 30

30- 31

32-33

34- 35

35- 36

36- 38

DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Governor1s-General1s Office and Establishment

Application of fringe benefit tax

The Governor-General1s tax free allowance

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

Cuts in Departmental expenditure

Madigan Report on space policy

Cuts in bounties

Government's decision on IAC report

Tariff rate adjustment

National preference agreement on government purchasing

Government bodies discriminating against local

manufacturers and Review of High Technology Purchasing

Arrangements

Steel bounties and Steel Industry Authority's charter

on prices

Action on dumping

industrial disputation in the steel industry

Steel industry productivity

Heavy engineering and ship building industry

modernisation and assistance

Work practice changes a condition for assistance

Volume of applications for loan finance for heavy

industry modernisation

Department's options on the chemical industry in

relation to IAC recommendations on tariff levels

45.

Page

38- 39

39- 43

43-44

44

44

45

45

45

46

46-47

47

47

48

48

48

49

49

49

50

50

Issue

DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE

Commission for the Future

Sponsorship of departmental publications

Answers to questions on notice from Senator Short

Australian Institute of Marine Science

Funding of the Institute

Economic benefit from mangrove research

Economic potential of UV research

Progress on dealing with crown of thorns starfish

Effects of CEP funding

Staff structure and promotion difficulties in the

Institute

International attention to Institute's research

Funding grants and co-operation with other research

bodies

National Standards Commission

Major areas of concern to the Commission

Co-operation from the States

Future action on flow measurement

Staff recruitment and training

Cost recovery

Composition of the Commission

Uniform Legislation on weights and measures

Increase in salary costs

ANTARCTIC DIVISION

Auditor-General1s report on design problems for

Antarctic buildings

Costs of Antarctic expeditions

46.

Issue

Effects of currency depreciation on costs

Co-operation with private expeditions

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

Automotive Industry Authority

Underspending on management improvement funds allocated

in 1985-86 Budget

Authority proposals to car industry to reduce number of

models

Confidentiality of Authority's dealings with automotive

manufacturers

Imposition of penalties in implementation of car plan

Extent to which edited documents on car plan can be

made public

Effect of imported components on price differenials

Use of flexible technology in low volume production

Impact of fringe benefits tax on car market

Extension of export facilitation scheme

Commission's salary cost increase

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

HANSARD

Friday, 19 September 1986

INDEX OF ISSUES

Format: in order of discussion

Page Issue

403 Chairman's introduction

Answers to questions put by Senator Michael Baume to

the Office of the Governor-General, the Department of

Industry, Technology and Commerce, the Department of

Science. Answer to question by Senator Chaney taken on

notice at public hearing 15/4/86 by Australian Customs

Service

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

411 Assistance to Australian fertilizer producers 412-13 Restrictive work practices in textile clothing and

footwear industry

413 Industrial trouble in TCF industry 413 TCF Industry Council's decision in relation to IAC

Report on assistance to the industry

413-414 Export income advantages of national space program 414 Departmental consideration of Madigan Report 414 Funding of Lyman company in association with University of Adelaide

414-15 Remuneration Tribunal's figures on increase in salary

costs in relation to industry development bodies

415 Sitting fees and allowances of member of industry

groups

415 Communications equipment industry development program 415-16 Book bounty

48.

Page Issue

416 Departmental contracts, exchange and secondment

programs abroad and within Australia

416-17 Agreement with Department of Science on co-ordinated

approach to research and its impact on industry

417 Access of small business to 150% tax deduction scheme

418 Registration of claims by small business to tax

concessions

418-19 Comparison with concession schemes in other countries

419 Joint research and technology exchange with other

countries

419 Staffing of GIRD scheme and its funding criteria

420 Tax deductability of research in profit making bodies

420-21 Rationalisation of research grants and grants-in-aid to

national organisations

421 Role of management consultants in performance

improvement

421 Expenditure for NIES

422 OECD criticism of offset program

422 Penalties for failure to discharge offset obligations

423 New policy and offset credits

423-24 Participation of small manufacturers in offset program

424-26 AIDC involvement in Portland smelter

426-27 Dismantling of business regulations

427-28 Work of the Business Review Unit

428 Equity and loan investments by MIC

428 Effects of Government tax policies on industry plans

429 Research in academic institutions

429-30 Contracting of BIE research

430 Incorporated questions on fringe benefits tax

430 Increase in non-direct salary related payment

430 Staff redundancies

431 Costs of moving the Department

431 Work of the AMC and industry councils

432 Position of Mr Halfpenny on Machinery and Metal

Engineering Industry Council

432 Compliance with EEO program

49.

Page

432

433

434

434

434

435

435-36

436

437- 38

438

438- 39

439

439

440

440-41

441

442

442

442-43

443

444

444

445

4 45

446

446

446

447

447

Industrial democracy program

Australian Customs Service

Answers to questions put by Senator Michael Baume

Opening statement by Senator Button

Loss of revenue due to industrial disputes

Uranium excise

Report of Auditor-General

Staffing at airports

Clearance of cargo

Impact of optional port of lodgement scheme on minor

ports

Cost saving and surveillance advantages of clearance

through gateway ports

Custom clearance prior to entry

Dichotomy between revenue raising and policy functions

Tariff classification applications before AAT

Duty on imported sterling silver

Equipment for barrier enforcement

Project Cook

Co-operation with defence forces

Closed-circuit TV surveillance at airports

Liaison with Federal Police

Downtime of computers at airports

Surveillance of coasts and ports

Security of seized drugs

Reduction of overseas representation

Duty-free concessions for events of national

significance

Customs Co-operation Council contribution

AAT decision on Thiess Toyota case on forward exchange

rate controls

Under-invoicing

Investigative resources

Transmission of documentation

Issue

50.

Page Issue

447 Seizure of privately imported motor vehicles 447-48 Problem of initial tariff barriers to local

manufacturers

448 Developing countries preference scheme 448 Implementation of Gruen report on dumping 448 Cost of attending GATT conference 448-49 Cost of complying with various public service reforms 449 Costs of Parliamentary and ministerial liaison.

449 Cash limiting allowance

Industries Assistance Commission

449-50 Incorporation of answer to questions by Senators

Withers and Michael Baume

450 Financial Review article on abolition of IAC 451-452 Changing attitude to IAC 452 References to IAC

453 Appointment of two more commissioners 453 Impact project

DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Page Issue

453-54 Incorporation of answers to questions asked of the ABA

by Senator Michael Baume

Australian Bicentennial Authority

454 Corporate sponsorship

455 Youth program

456-57 Funding of Conference of Free Trade Unions

457 Total cost of Conference of Free Trade Unions

457 Funding of Australian studies program at tertiary

institutions

457-58 Employment of consultants by funded bodies

458 Cost of Australian studies program

459 Contribution to encyclopaedia of Mr Ali Kazak

459 Military tattoo

459-60 Submissions by government departments on proposals for

the Bicentennial

461 Bicentennial themes

461-62 Authority grants to community groups

462 Breakdown of advertising and public relations costs 462 Project by Commission for the Future

462 Report to IFD Ltd

462-63 Report by Mahlab Hobbs

463 Commissioning of new consultants since May 1985

52.

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

Thursday, 25 September 1986

INDEX OF ISSUES

DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE

Page

782-84

784

785

785

785

786

786-87

787

787

788

788

789

789

789- 90

790- 91

791

791- 92

792

792

Issue

Incorporated questions from Senator Vigor

Commonwealth Bureau of Meteorology

Equipment standards ~

Staff shortages

Meteorology Policy Committee

Liaison with CSIRO

Access to Bureau data

Cost recovery

Closing of weather stations

Use of Cyber 205

Study of drought

Involvement in international programmes

Loss of Bureau staff allocation to Commission for the

Future

Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation

Technical trainee scheme

Revenue from contract research

Operating costs of Australian telescope

Priority targeting of research funds

Contract research outside CSIRO

Staffing

External funding target

53.

793

793

794

794

794

794

795

795

795

796

796

796­

797

797

797

797

798

798

798

798

799

799

799

799

799­

800-

Issue

Retention of profits

Collaboration with universities

Evaluation of research

Cost of Sirochem

Funds for stellar interferometer

Auditor-General's report on CSIRO

FOI requests

Office rental

Redundancy costs

Fast train project

CSIRONET

Merchandising of Cyber 205

Expenditure on Sirotech

Commercial dealings of CSIRO

Shedding of staff in early separation scheme

Funding of Australian Science and Technology Centre

Creation of Space Science and Technology Authority

Obsolescence of equipment in universities

Number of committees under the Science portfolio

Marine science priority research

Amalgamation of AMSTAC and Marine Research Allocations

Advisory Committee - cost savings

Amalgamation of research bodies

Incorporated questions on Australian Research Grants

Scheme from Senator Archer

Self-financing objective of AGAL

Implementation of Ross Report

AGAL clientel

Budgeting for currency depreciation

Developments in Ionospeheric Prediction Service

Progress with Aussat and Mirrabooka spacecraft

interaction with other bodies

British funding share of Anglo-Australian Telescope

Board

Staffing problems of Patent, Trade Marks and Designs

Office

54.

Page

801

801-802

802

803

803

804

804

804

804-05

806-09

810

811

812

812

812

813

813

813

814

814-15

816

Issue

Costs and receipts of Patents division

Closure of Technology Information Branch

Overtime costs

Backlog of applications

Value of royalties

Australian and foreign patent applications

Inventory on assets register

Comparative costs of processing applications

Estimate of costs of fringe benefits tax

DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Incorporated answers to questions asked by Senator

Short

Costs related to Pope's visit an d , America's Cup

challege

Re-employment of retired officers

Department's role in Australian purchasing preference

policy advice

Tax deductability for gifts to bicentennial

celebrations

Departments involvement in merger of ABC and SBS

Transfer pricing investigation by Economic and Social

Policy Division

Economic and Social Policy Division

Advertising expenditure

Tranference of ministerial network to Special Minister

of State

Cost of abolishing Advisory Council for

Inter-Government Relations

Costs of royal visits and state funerals

55.

Page

816-17

817

817

818

818

818-19

820

821

821

822

822

823

823

823

824

825

825

826

826

Issue

Office of the Status of Women

Grant to WEL national agenda conference

Women's sport in the media report

Grants to National Women's Consultative Council and its

representation

Costs of national consultation for NWCC

Data base for Women and Register of Women

Basis for decision on funding and consultation by

Office of Status of Women and NWCC

Relationship between Office of Status of Women and

Affirmative Action Agency

Relationship between Office and women's bureau of DEIR

Publicity for National Agenda for Women

Involvement of the Office in National Fight-Back

Conference

Selection of Director of Office

Use of material by Office from conferences funded by it

OFFICIAL ESTABLISHMENTS

Telephone changes for Kirribilli House

Restoration, refurbishing and use of Kirribilli House

YOUTH AFFAIRS PROGRAMS

Decrease in expenditure

Relationship with Australian Council for Education and

Training

The National Training Council and Community Service

Volunteers

Evaluation of CEP project

Ethnic youth needs

56.

Page

826

827

827

828

828

829

829

829

829

829

830

830

831

831

831

COMPENSATION AND LEGAL EXPENSES

Explanation for 91.6% increase

SPECIAL PURPOSE FLIGHTS

1967 Treasury cost formula

Calculation of charges

Office of Inspector General of Intelligence and

Security

Establishment costs borne by other departments

CAPITAL WORKS AND SERVICES

Issue

Testing procedures for equipment

Compatibility with equipment in SMOS and NCA

Interim Affirmative Action Agency

Funds provided until Agency becomes permanent

Economic Planning Advisory Council

Staffing reductions

Determination of projects

30 Use of, and choice of consultants

Information overload

Role of EPAC in machinery of government

Role for EPAC in work practices

Publication costs and offsetting revenue

32 Staff structure

Page Issue

Office of National Assessments

833 Geographic focus of interest

833 Political information gathering in the Pacific

Australian Science and Technology Council

833 Intellectual property

833 Determination of programs

Merit Protection and Review Agency

833 Transfer to Agency of ACT Health Authority procedures

834 Extension of MPRA jurisdiction

834-35 Contribution of MPRA to procedures of departments

835 Status of MPRA

835 Staffing

836 Disciplinary and promotion appeals

Public Service Board

837 Paid inoperatives and redundancy payments

837-38 Public Service recruitment

838 Occupational health and safety

838-39 Age of applicants for P.S. appointments

839 Pay-rates for specialists

839 "Change Agent" program

840 Records of staff numbers

840 Higher duties

840-41 Legal costs over redundancy payment to employees of

Canberra Commercial Development Authority

841-42 Incorporation of questions on notice from Senators

Vigor and Short

842 Flextime review

58.

and joint Council

Page Issue

842-43 Industrial democracy procedures and joint Council

Secretariat

843 Specialists in US contract law

843-44 Purchase of computing equipment

844 Responsibility of departments and authorities to fix

mistakes

844-45 Grants administration in ADAB

845 Assessment of material on Viatel

845-46 Information Exchange Steering Committee

846-47 Information of questions on notice from Senator Vigor

DEPARTMENT OF TRADE

848-54 Incorporated answers to questions from Senators Short,

Jessop and Michael Baume *

854-55 Trade Development Council - ACTU study mission - costs

and choice of delegation

855 Cost to Department of visit to Japan by mining union

officials and business representatives

855-56 Sanctions against South Africa

856 South African coal exports

856-57 Sale of uranium to France

857 Australian processing of Argyle diamonds

857-58 Commitment to tin agreement

858 Effect on expenditure on re-organisation of Department

858-59 Export development grants

859-60 Premiums for EFIC

860 Expenditure on consultants

860-61 Marketing assistance to ASEAN countries

861 Appointment of Mr Fallick as consultant

59.

Page Issue

Australian Trade Commission

861-62 Appointment of trade commissioner to Italy

862 Closure of Middle East posts

862 Department's role in Portland smelter

862 Aluminium trade prospects

862 Grants to Fremantle Arts Foundation Co Ltd

863 Austrade cost recovery

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 22 August 1986 the Senate referred to the Committee the

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1986-87 and

departmental expenditure under the Advance to the Minister

for Finance for 1985-86 for the following Departments:

Department of Community Services

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

Department of Social Security

Department of Health

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of these

Departments and has received explanations of them from the

Minister for Community Services, (Senator the Hon. Don

Grimes) and officers of the Departments concerned. A copy of

the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the

evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the

information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation

Bill (No. 1) 1986-87 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1986-87.

Answers to questions which were deferred and were to be

subsequently given in writing will be tabled in the Senate. 3

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters arising from its consideration of the

Additional Estimates:

Program Budgeting

As reported in Estimates Committee A in October 1985, a pilot

project of program budgeting was commenced for three Executive

departments. This year, the Department of Immigration and Ethnic

Affairs adopted program budgeting and presented its Departmental

63.

Explanatory Notes to this Committee in the program budgeting

format. This was the first opportunity which this Committee has

had to comment on program budgeting and accordingly offers the

following comments.

The advent of program budgeting has required a new form of

presentation of information to the Committee (by program rather

than a line by line adherence to the Appropriation Bills), and

the introduction of two significant new accountability measures;

statements describing programs and their objectives and the

provision of program performance indicators.

By providing the Senate with a description of objectives, the

objectives themselves and not just the appropriations of a

department become subject to greater public scrutiny. It would

appear that the provision of a greater amount of policy material

to Estimates Committees is drawing these Committees further into

the province where a department's programs and policies can be

more effectively questioned and challenged. In the case of the

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs for example, the

Committee now has a benchmark of departmental objectives against

which to measure future Estimates of that Department.

The Committee found that the program performance indicators

for the Department of Immigration, though still in the formative

stage, held the potential for bringing the Department's

performance of its policy responsibilities under greater public

scrutiny. The Committee notes the distinction between program

performance, (success or rate of implementation of government

policy by the Department), and operational peformance (the

quality and cost of Departmental management). Under present

proposals, only the former indicators are being provided. The

Committee is of the opinion that consideration should be given to

requiring all departments adopting program budgeting to also

include indicators of their operational performance in their

Explanatory Notes. The Committee believes that such indicators

are of value considering the Government's concern that economies

must be achieved in public administration.

64.

Backlog of Freedom of Information Requests

The Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs noted in its

Explanatory Notes for the 1986-87 Budget Estimates, at page 57,

the following statistics relating to Freedom of Information

requests:

' The number of FOI requests was 1,554 , an increase

of 6% over 1984-85. During the year 1,150 requests

were resolved, of which 42% were resolved within

the required 45 day limit.'

The Committee was advised that the cause of delays

resulting in such a high percentage of unresolved requests

was a lack of staffing resources.

The Committee is concerned that 58% of requests remained

unresolved within the 45 days required by Section 19 of the

Freedom of Information Act. In this respect, the Department

is operating in breach of the legislation and the Committee

draws the attention of the Senate to this matter.

Invalidity Age Retirements

During its examination of proposed expenditure for the

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, the Committee

was informed that the ratio of invalidity to age retirements

during 1985-86 was 1.7 to 1. Information subsequently

provided to the Committee by the Department indicates that

this evidence was incorrect and that the ratio was in fact

2.75 to 1. The Committee was further advised that the number

of officers retiring on invalidity grounds has exceeded the

number who retired on age grounds since 1983-84. A similar

situation also exists in the Departments of Health,

Community Services and Social Security.

The Committee was also informed that under current

arrangements there is a significant incentive for officers

to be retired on invalidity grounds prior to their planned

retirement age. The Committee wishes to express its concern

about this matter and informs the Senate that it will

continue to monitor the situation at future Estimates

Committee hearings.

Estimates Committees - Programming of Business

Estimates Committee B met during the 1987 Budget

sittings for some nineteen and a half hours over three days.

During its last meeting, the Committee resolved, because of

the difficulty of obtaining Committee agreement to a future

meeting time, to attempt to complete its examination of

departments in a single session, provided it could finish

its business at a reasonable hour after 10.30 p.m. In the

event, the Committee concluded its examination of

departments at 3.17 a.m. The Committee advises that this was

not satisfactory. The Committee considers that given the

trend to more detailed and time consuming examination of

departmental Estimates, consideration should be given by the

Senate to setting aside more fixed (rather than 'as

required') time for the meeting of Estimates Committees.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance

given by the Minister for Community Services (Senator the

Hon. Don Grimes) and officers of the departments concerned.

6 6 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THE SENATE

TUESDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 11

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 4.34 pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and

2. The Chairman (Senator Giles) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN:

The Chairman reported the Resolution of the Senate of 22

August 1986 relating to the consideration of the particulars

of proposed expenditure for 1986-87 and made a statement

relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in

its examination of the Estimates.

The Chairman made a further statement relating to the

adoption of the program budgeting accounting by the

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

COMMUNITY SERVICES:

In Attendance:

Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community

Services, accompanied by the following officers:

69.

Department of Community Services

Mr S. Hamilton, Deputy Secretary

Mr J. Simpson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services

Division

Mr B. Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch

Mr I. Campbell, Assistant Secretary, Residential Review

Branch

Mr J . Hetherington, Assistant Secretary, Operations and

Practices Branch, Rehabilitation

Mr 0. Winder, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Planning Branch,

Office of Child Care

Mr R. Egan, First Assistant Secretary, Community Program

Division

Ms M. Scott, Assistant Secretary, Home and Community Care

Branch

Mr M. Johnson, Director, Residential and Resources Section,

Residential Programs Division

Ms S. Halley, First Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation

Services Division

Ms M. Coleman, Senior Adviser, Policy Co-ordination Unit.

Department of Finance

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division

Ms G. Smith, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security Division

Mr W. Kinrade, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security

Division

Mr K. O'Neil, Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division.

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 220-221

70.

4. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 10.35 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE:

The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator P.J. Giles (Chairman)

Senator the Hon. P. Baume

Senator R.A. Crowley

Senator R.C. Elstob

Senator G. Sheil

CONFIRMED

Patr>eia J. Giles

Chairman

THE SENATE

FRIDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 12

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 9.05 am in Senate Committee Rooms 1

and 2. The Chairman (Senator Giles) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

COMMUNITY SERVICES - In continuation.

In Attendance:

Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community

Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Community Services

Mr S. Hamilton, Deputy Secretary

Mr J. Simpson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services

Division

Mr B . Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch

Mr I. Campbell, Assistant Secretary, Residential Review

Branch

Mr J. Hetherington, Assistant Secretary, Operations and

Practices Branch, Rehabilitation

Mr O. Winder, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Planning Branch,

Office of Child Care

Mr R. Egan, First Assistant Secretary, Community Program

Division

72.

Ms M. Scott, Assistant Secretary, Home and Community Care

Branch

Mr M. Johnson, Director, Residential and Resources Section,

Residential Programs Division

Ms S. Halley, First Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation

Services Division

Ms M. Coleman, Senior Adviser, Policy Co-ordination Unit.

Department of Finance * * 3 4

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division

Ms G. Smith, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security Division

Mr W. Kinrade, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security

Division

Mr K. O'Neil, Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division. ,

The Chairman called on the following divisions for consideration:

Divisions 839-841

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed

expenditure for the Department of Community Services, subject to

undertakings by the Minister and officers of the Department to

provide additional information to the Committee.

3. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 4.20 pm.

4. ATTENDANCE:

The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator P.J. Giles (Chairman)

Senator the Hon. P. Baume

Senator R.A. Crowley

73.

Senator R.C. Elstob

Senator G. Shell

Senator S. Walters

CONFIRMED

Chairman

THE SENATE

THURSDAY 25 SEPTEMBER 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 13

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 4.50 pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1

and 2. The Chairman (Senator Giles) took the Chair.

2. PROGRAMMING OF BUSINESS

Resolved - On the motion of Senator Elstob

That the Committee -(a) continue its examination of all remaining Estimates

this day; and

(b) for this purpose continue to sit for such

reasonable time after 10.30 p.m. as it may

determine.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS

In Attendance:

Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

Mr A.C. Harris, Deputy Secretary

Mr W.J. Gibbons, First Assistant Secretary, Management

Division

Mr V. McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services

Branch

Mr T. Rodgers, Executive Director, Council on Overseas

Professional Qualifications

Department of Finance

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division

Mr R. Bariin, Chief Finance Officer, Education and Employment

Division

Mr P. Flaton, Senior Research Officer, General Expenditure

Division

Mr A. Rizvi, Chief Finance Officer, General Expenditure

Division

The Chairman made a statement relating to the adoption of

program budget accounting by the Department of Immigration

and Ethnic Affairs.

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 360-365

Divisions 902-903

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed

expenditure for the Department of Immigration and Ethnic

Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers

of the Department to provide additional information to the

Committee.

76.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

SOCIAL SECURITY

In Attendance:

Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community

Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Social Security

Mr C. McAlister, National Manager

Mr V. Rogers, Special Adviser

Mr J. MacMahon, First Assistant Secretary, Benefits Delivery

Mr A. Herscovitch, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Development

Mr M. Douglas, First Assistant Secretary, Legislation and

Review '

Mr P. Taylor, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Support

Mr J . Humphreys, First Assistant Secretary, Systems

Mr J . Wadeson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Regional

Administration

Mr R. Elmes, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Resource

Management

Mr B . Leonard, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Performance

Monitoring

Mr W. Lewisson, Assistant Commissioner, Management and

Operations, Commissioner for Employees’ Compensation

Mr P. Wurfel, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance

Mr T . Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Benefits Control

Ms R. Lynch, Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and

Communications

Mr A. Law, National Overpayments Co-ordinator

Mr G. Maloney, Acting Director, Finance Estimates

Department of Finance

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

77.

Ms K. Flanagan, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security

Division.

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Division 560

Divisions 948, 950

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed

expenditure for the Department of Social Security, subject to

undertakings by the Minister and officers of the Department

to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

HEALTH

In Attendance:

Senator the Honourable Don Grimes, Minister for Community

Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Health

Mr B.V. McKay, Secretary

Dr J.W. Donovan, First Assistant Secretary, Therapeutic

Division

Mr I. McNeil, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate

Resources Division

Mr A.J. Bansemer, First Assistant Secretary, Health Services

Financing Division

Mr P.T. Pflaum, First Assistant Secretary, National Health

and Medici Research Division

Mr J.S. McCauley, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Health

Advancement Division

Mr A. Mair, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch

Mr M . Clarke, Assistant Secretary, Australia Card

Dr A.D. Proudfoot, Branch Head, Communicable Diseases Branch

78.

Mr A. Barich, Acting Director, Financial Resources

Mr K. Riordan, Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Services

Health Insurance Commission;

Mr M.B. Wilcox, General Manager

Mr M. Murray, Acting General Manager, Finance

Mr M. Parsons, Acting General Manager, Claims and Membership

Mr A. Coates, Acting General Manager, Systems

Mr G. Lewis, Acting General Manager, Audit and Investigations

Mr K. Hazell, Acting General Manager, Australia Card

Dr P. Gunton, Medical Director

Ms D. Jay, Manager, Ministerial and Policy Liaison

Mr J. Bentley, Acting General Manager, Personnel

Department of Finance

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and

Accounting Policy Division

Mr E. Mann, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security Division

The Chairman called on the following divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 325-328

Divisions 881-883

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed

expenditure for the Department of Health, subject to

undertakings by officers to provide additional information to

the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 3.17 am.

79.

7 ATTENDANCE:

The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator P.J. Giles (Chairman)

Senator the Hon. P. Baume

Senator R.A. Crowley

Senator R.C. Elstob

Senator G. Shell

Senator S. Walters

CONFIRMED

Chairman

80.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 14

WEDNESDAY 15 OCTOBER 1986

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 12.45 pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1

and 2. The Chairman (Senator Giles) took the Chair.

2. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE:

The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report to the

Senate.

Resolved: That the draft Report, as amended, be agreed to.

3. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES:

The Minutes of Meetings held on 16, 19 and 25 September 1986

were confirmed.

4. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 1.05 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Giles (Chairman), the Hon. P. Baume, Crowley,

Elstob, Shell and Walters.

Certified Correct:

81 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

HANSARD

INDEX OF ISSUES

Page

16 September 1986

Department of Community Services

60 Fringe Benefits Tax 62 Repetitive Strain Injury - Workers' Compensation 63 Special Executive Service - Employment Eguity Programs 64 Invalidity Retirement 65 Staffing Levels 66 Payment to States for Assessment Teams - Nursing Homes

67 Grants to Local Organisations by the Department 68 Departmental Goal Statement 69 Home and Community Care 74 Assistance for the Aged 76 Assistance to People with Disabilities

79 Handicapped Programs Review 80 Fringe Benefits 81 Disability Services Legislation

84 Council of Disabled Persons - Victoria 85 Self-help Disability Groups 87 Australian Council for Rehabilitation of Disabled Limited (ACROD)

88 Assistance to Families 89 Occasional Care 92 Other Assistance to Community Organisations 94 Policy Co-ordination Unit 96 Full time Temporary Staff 96 Grants for Children's Services

99 Women's Emergency Services Program 101 Home and Community Care Program

19 September 1986

465

476

478

493

496

500

501

503

503

504

505

505

505

508

509

509

510

511

512

514

519

521

522

523

523

524

Rehabilitation Service

Invalidity Entitlements and Grants to Ethnic Community

Groups

Pensions and Nursing Home Fees - Gap

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

Retirements through Invalidity

Fringe Benefits Tax

Program Budgeting

AMEP Program

Population and Migration Program

Intergovernmental Committee for Migration

United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees - Payment

Committee on Overseas Qualifications

South American Refugees

South Africa - SHP Program

Ethiopian Migration

Full-year Effect of Increases in Overseas Allowances

Reduction of Overseas Staffing - Increases in Travel

Temporary Worker Visas

Business Migration Program - Temporary Entry People -

Current Processing time for Applications - New form

for Change of Status

Lifting of Visas for Japanese

Overseas Student Program - Administrative Changes -

Special Category Visas - Entry Refusals

Amnesties - Detection of Illegals

Staff Rearrangement - Catering Service - Bilingual

Information Service

Review of Migrant and Multicultural Programs and

Services

Hello Australia Program

Grants-in-Aid

Citizenship - Sub-program 3.3

8 6 .

525 Computer System for Citizenship

526 Area Offices - Closure

527 Freedom of Information Requests

528 Information Services - Sub-program 4.3

529 Investigations - Sub-program 4.4

530 Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs (AIMA)

25 September 1986

Department of Social Security

866 Hospitality and Entertainment - Sum Allocated - Number

of Clients

866 RSI - Invalidity - Compensation

870 Special Stationery - Cost

870 Fringe Benefits

873 Senior Executive Service

873 Ministerial Council Meetings

876 Theft of Microfiche

878 Number of New Staff in the Department

879 Social Security Loss of Benfit Funds

881 Strike and Work Bans

882 Radiation Checks - Computer Equipment

885 Departmental Protective Security

886 Stolen Microfiche

889 Budget Decisions - Brochure

890 Hire Charges for Motor Vehicles

890 Stratplan - Implementation

891 Pensions - Greeks

892 Departmental Consultants

895 International Social Security Association

895 Fringe Benefits Tax

896 Payment to Universities and other Organisations for

Special Studies and Research

897 Computer Equipment

898 Sole Parents

899 Compensation to persons affected by the Social Security

Conspiracy case

87.

900

902

904

906

907

908

911

913

914

915

919

920

920

922

924

925

926

926

927

927

928

930

930

931

932

932

933

934

934

935

938

938

939

940

94 7

New Zealand Department of Social Welfare - payment Widows Pensions Unemployment Benefits Single Umemployment Pensions - de Facto Relationships Airlie Beach - Unemployment Benefits Social Security - Estimate of Fraud

Department of Health

Immunisation Senior Executive Officers - Staff Fringe Benefits Tax Invalidity Retirements - Numbers and Causes Food Irradiation Maternity Leave - Sick Leave - Staff

Ministerial Council Meetings Provision of Pathology Services Pharmpay - Savings Expected in Administration of Program Fringe Benefits Tax World Health Organisation - Contribution OHSC Royal Flying Doctor Service National Drug Program AIDS Commonwealth Serum Laboratories Commission Australian Community Health Association National Community Health Program Mammography Commonwealth Health Department - No Smoking Walter and Eliza Hall Institute - Grant Act of Grace Payments

Better Health Commission Marketing of Coolers Conferences of the Australian medical Council Reciprocal Health Care Agreements Australian Institute of Health - Director Health Insurance Payments

Fringe Benefits - Health Insurance Commission

8 8 .

949

949

951

952

954

954

955

Medicare Teaching Hospitals Capital program

Delivery of Blood Transfusion Services - Automation

National Centre for Liver Transplantations

Computer Services

Pharmaceutical Benefits - Pricing Bureau

Occasional Health Care Cards

Pharmaceuticals for Pensioners

89.

HANSARD

INDEX TO ISSUES

RAISED IN SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Page

Department of Community Services

Fringe Benefits Tax 2

ACROD 5

YWCA 6

Child Care Centre, Albany TAPE 7

Family Support Services, ACT 8

Residential Programmes 9

Home and Community Care 13

Demonstration Projects 16

Disability Services Legislation - Appeal Provisions 26

Welfare Ministers' Conferences 27

Early Age Retirement Figures 44

Nursing Homes - Fee Gap 45

Rehabilitation Units - Staffing 53

Work Adjustment Centre, Artarmon 55

Rehabilitation Centres 58

Senior Medical Officer - States 61

CRS 68

Office for the Aged, Office of Disability 70 Disability Advisory Council of Australia 72

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs '

Hospitality Allowances 76

Workers' Compensation 77

Reconciliation - Estimates in Budget Papers Nos. 5 and 6 79

Temporary Staff Arrangements 81

Population Analysis and Migration Planning - Staff Reductions 83

Australia - Population Figures 85

Retirees - with limited knowledge of English 86 Overseas Staff - Familiarity with Specialised Migration Programmes 87

Appeals - Unfavourable Assessments 88

Costs of Resettlement - Irian Jaya Refugees 89 Residents 90

Control of Illegal Immigration 92

Post Arrival Services 93

Adult Migrant Education 97

Telephone Interpreter Service 98

Community Affairs Sub-Programme 99

Review of Migrant and Multicultural Programmes and Services 100

Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs 101 Policy Co-ordination, Management and Office Support 102

Review and Administrative Law 111

Information Services 113

Incidents of RSI 115

Compensation Recipients 116

Invalidity Retirements 118

Sick Leave 121

Fringe Benefits Tax 123

93.

Department of Health

Sick Leave and Compensation Statistics 196, 201

Changes in Staffing Levels 198

Definition of RSI 199

Ministerial Councils 203

Pathology Laboratory Costs 204

Costs of Consultantcies 205

Distribution of Budget Information 206

Conference on Rational Use of Drugs - Nairobi 207 Royal Flying Doctor Service 210

New South Wales Prisons and Drug Use 211

Aides 212

Catholic Social Welfare Commission - Grants for Family Planning Services 214

National Community Health Programme - Funded Projects 216

Natural Family Planning Services - Grants 218 Cost of Lithotripters 220

Reinsurance Trust Fund 221

Witnesses appearing before Joint Select Committee on an Australia Card 224

Funding of Teaching Hospitals 228

Automation of Blood Transfusion Services 229 Tables depicting Commonwealth Funding of State Health matters 230

Concessional Health Care Cards 231

Requirements for Alcohol Content on Labels 232 Health Forum - Funding 233

National Liver Transplant Unit - Status of Patients 234

Medicare Payments for Mastectomy 235

Fringe Benefits Tax - Rental Value of Properties 236

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its

Report to the Senate.

1. On 22 August 1986, the Senate referred to the

Committee the Estimates for the year ending 30 June

1987 relating to the following Departments:

Department of Finance

Department of the Treasury

Department of Employment and Industrial Relations

Department of Communications

Department of Primary Industry.

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of

Expenditure and Expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance for the year ending 30 June 1986

and received explanations of them from the Minister

for Finance and officers of the Departments concerned.

A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings, index to issues

raised in public hearings and Hansard reports of the

evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the

information of the Senate in connection with

Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1986-87 and Appropriation

Bill (No. 2) 1986-87. 3

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters:

97.

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) has been

subject to close scrutiny by Estimates Committees since

1971 when, following criticism by Estimates Committee B of

the then Commission's attitude to Parliamentary scrutiny,

the following resolution was passed:

"That whilst it may be argued that

Statutory Authorities are not accountable through the responsible Minister of State to Parliament for day-to-day operations, they may be called to account by

Parliament itself at any time and that there are no areas of expenditure of

public funds where these corporations have a discretion to withhold details or explanations from Parliament or its Committees unless the Parliament has expressly provided otherwise.".

The Senate re-affirmed this principle on 4 June 1984.

Despite the re-affirmation, Estimates Committee A again

reported in October 1984 that information provided at the

hearing was less than satisfactory.

Estimates Committee C first examined the ABC in May

1985 and found it necessary to again refer to the principle

set out in the above resolution. The Committee reported at

that time about problems with the ABC's accounting systems

and financial reports, as well as problems in obtaining

information directly from the Corporation's officers rather

than having questions taken on notice. The Committee also

stated that it would closely follow the Corporation's

implementation of its accounting systems.

In examining the Corporation in May 1986, the

Committee referred to two severe qualifications made by the

Auditor-General to the ABC's 1984-85 financial statements.

98.

Because of the Auditor-General1s qualifications, the

Committee stated in its report reservations about the

Corporation's financial management ability.

Since the examination by the Committee in May 1986 of

the 1984-85 financial statements, the Auditor-General1 s

report dated 16 September 1986 has been tabled containing

critical findings in addition to those contained in the

certificate attached to the 1984-85 financial statements.

Of particular concern to the Committee is the fact that the

Auditor-General's September 1986 report revealed that these

additional matters had been referred to the ABC for comment

as early as November 1985. The Auditor-General had formally

referred these matters to the ABC in writing in January

1986. The ABC's response to these representations was not

received until 10 June 1986. Indeed, the Auditor-General

refers to the Corporation's tardiness in responding to

Audit representations.

Upon consideration of the Auditor-General's September

1986 report, and given the background detailed above, the

Chairman of the Committee, Senator Childs, made the

following statement at the hearing:

"This Committee is concerned that the officers of the ABC knew of these matters when they came before us in April. They should have let us clearly know of the problems that the Auditor had raised. I

think I speak for all Committee members when I say that our confidence in the ABC has been undermined as a result of this development.". (Estimates Hansard, 19

September 1986, p.543)

In the Committee's May 1986 report to the Senate, the

ABC were commended for presenting their first ever balance

sheet. The accounting difficulties, as they were known to

the Committee at the time, were referred to with the

comment that the matter would be reviewed in the October

1986 Estimates examination. The outcome of that review has

been most unsatisfactory. In relation to the specific

matters referred to in the Auditor-General1s September 1986

report, the Committee is again in the position of accepting

ABC assurances that the matters will be resolved to both

the Committee's and the Auditor-General's satisfaction.

However, this will not be possible for the 1985-86

financial year as the following major matters referred to

by the Auditor-General, according to evidence provided to

the Committee at the hearing on 19 September 1986, will not

be finalised in sufficient time:

(i) Computerized Assets Register - to be completed

by 31 December 1986;

(ii) Debtors Ledger - interim system introduced;

(iii) Creditors Ledger - was to be operational by

1 January 1987 extended to 1 April 1987;

(iv) Stores accounts - pilot system only; and

(v ) Artists fees - new system being investigated.

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS

Program Budgeting

Three of the five Departments examined by the

Committee now use program budgeting. In its October 1985

report, the Committee noted the overlapping information

contained in the documents provided to it relating to the

estimates of Departments using program budgeting. In that

report the Committee stated:

100.

"As this is the first occasion that these documents have been produced the

Committee recommends that they be refined and where possible the information

combined in the one document to better facilitate examination.".

The Committee now considers that the principal

document should be the Explanatory Notes read in

conjunction with Budget Paper No. 6. The Committee notes

that this recommendation has been taken up with the

inclusion of information contained in the Department of

Finance's document Portfolio Program Statements in the

1986-87 Explanatory Notes. Accordingly, to rationalize the

documentation presented to Estimates Committees, the

production of that document is no longer considered

necessary for the purposes of the Estimates Committee's

examination.

The Explanatory Notes provided by the Departments of

Communications and Employment and Industrial Relations

contained figures which were at variance with those in

Budget Paper No. 6. The variations relating to the

Department of Communications arose due to some items being

attributed to different sub-programs. The Department

provided the Committee with a reconciliation of the

differing figures when the variations were drawn to its

attention. It did not, however, attempt to attribute

responsibility for the variations as between itself as

author of the Explanatory Notes and the Department of

Finance as author of Budget Paper No. 6.

The Committee regards any variations between

Departments' Explanatory Notes and Budget Paper No. 6 as

unacceptable. The question of whether the individual

Departments or the Department of Finance was responsible

for ensuring that variations did not occur was raised with

the latter.

101.

With respect to incorrect attributions at the

sub-program level, the Department of Finance replied that

these were basically teething difficulties within the

Departments. The Department of Finance provided the

following advice in a letter to the Chairman,

Senator Childs, dated 18 September 1986 (Appendix 1):

"It can be expected that as departments obtain further experience with the

approach, the frequency of differences in figures resulting from these difficulties will decline markedly. The Department of Finance, in consultation with

departments, is currently addressing this issue to see what measures can be taken to prevent it recurring.".

The Committee encourages this attempt to address the

problem. More generally, the Committee records its

appreciation of the efforts made by officers of the

Department of Finance to assist it with the transition to

program budgeting.

The Department of Finance placed responsibility for

variations between the Department of Employment and

Industrial Relations' Explanatory Notes and figures

contained in Budget Paper No. 6 as being due to the use of

separate ledger systems by the Department of Employment and

Industrial Relations and the Department of Finance. The

Department of Finance stated in their letter to the

Chairman dated 18 September 1986 (Appendix 1):

"[T]he figures in Budget Paper No. 6

reflect those held in the Finance Ledger System (FLS) which is the official/legal record of government transactions. Each

Commonwealth department has a statutory obligation to ensure that adequate

records are maintained for the purposes of recording information in this

ledger...

Where a department maintains a separate ledger for its own purposes, it is

obligated to ensure that the information it provides for the FLS is the most

102.

accurate available. Finance Regulation 127(1) states that separate accounts kept by departments are subsidiary to the FLS.".

The Committee accepts the view put by the Department

of Finance that departmental systems should reflect the

Finance Ledger System and, whilst allowing for teething

problems with the introduction of Program Budgeting,

expects that no variations will occur in future years

between Budget Paper No. 6 and and figures contained in the

Explanatory Notes.

The three Departments on program budgeting which were

examined by the Committee all provided details at the

sub-program level in their Explanatory Notes. This was

found to be satisfactory. But it may be necessary to shift

the focus of explanation to the component level or

sub-component level in special cases in the future.

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation illustrates

this point. When the ABC moves to program budgeting it

appears as if it will be a component rather than a

sub-program within the Communications portfolio.

Nonetheless, the Committee would expect to be given at

least as much detail on the ABC as is currently provided in

the Explanatory Notes. The decision whether to report at

the sub-program, component, or some other level should

always be guided by the Department's experience of the

level of detail examined at previous estimates hearings. In

addition, the Committee may give specific directions in

some cases.

The Committee found particularly useful the method

adopted by the Department of Finance of placing in the top

right hand corner of each page of the Explanatory Notes the

program element discussed on that page. The Committee

commends this approach to other Departments.

103.

Reference. Contact Officer: Telephone:

APPENDIX 1

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

Ne-.viunds S fe e h Pa-3.es. a C t 2 3 r Telephone Canneea a 3 3323 Te:ex 623)39

Senator B. Childs Chairman Senate Estimates Committee C Room U31 Parliament House CANBERRA ACT 2600

Dear Senator Childs

DIFFERENCES IN FIGURES BETWEEN DEPARTMENTAL EXPLANATORY NOTES AND BUDGET PAPER NO 6

The Departmental Explanatory Notes presented to Senate Estimates Committees by the Departments of:

. Aboriginal Affairs;

. Communications;

. Employment and Industrial Relations; and

. Industry, Technology and Commerce

contain figures which are at variance with those in Budget Paper No 6. A reconciliation of the differences between these documents for the Department of Communications is

attached. The reconciliation for the Department of Employment and Industrial Relations is provided on pages 12-16 of their Explanatory Notes document.

There are two main reasons for the differences between the documents:

. departments maintaining information systems separate from the Finance Ledger System and not ensuring that the two reconcile; and

. transitional difficulties associated with the 'changeover 1 to program budgeting.

With respect to the former, it should be noted that the figures in Budget Paper No 6 reflect those held in the Finance Ledger System (FLS) which is the official/legai record of government transactions. Each Commonwealth department has a statutory obligation to ensure that adequate records are maintained for the purposes of

recording information in this ledger (Finance Regulation No 84). Finance Direction 6 (20) requires that Departments shall ensure that adequate records are maintained for recording departmental estimates and expenditures on a program or functional basis for purposes

including in particular the preparation of information for provision to the Parliament.

104.

Where a department maintains a separate ledger for its own purposes, it is obligated to ensure that the information it provides for the FLS is the most accurate available. Finance Regulation 127(1) states that separate accounts

kept by departments are subsidiary to the FLS.

The move to program budgeting has required departments to provide more disaggregated and a broader range of financial information than with the previous approach. Information is now provided on all appropriations (ie

including Special Appropriations), loan fund items, trust account transactions and certain revenue items, all classified by program. Moreover, the 'bottom-line' for each program is expressed in terms of Outlays (a net

figure) which is still a relatively new concept to departments.

It can be expected that as departments obtain further experience with the approach, the frequency of differences in figures resulting from these difficulties will decline markedly. The Department of Finance, in consultation with departments, is currently addressing this issue to see

what measures can be taken to prevent it recurring.

I am sending a similar letter to Senator Vigor as requested during your Committee's hearing on 16 September 1986.

I hope this information is of assistance to the Committee. If you have any futher inquiries please contact Wayne Jackson, Assistant Secretary, Budget Development Branch on 632918.

Yours sincerely

■ 1 ■

r .a . r,·f -ο- H.N. JonnstonFirst Assistant Secretary General Expenditure Division 18 September 1986

105 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Tuesday, 16 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Format: in order of discussion

Page Issues

107 Chairman's opening statement

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

108-9 Program budgeting - reconciling documents

109 Public Service staff ceilings

109-10 DoF early warning system against developing problems

110 Evaluation of impact of cash limits

110-11 Advisory Council for Inter-government Relations

111 Setting staff ceilings and the timing of budget

process

111 Reader survey of 1985-86 Budget documents

111-13 FBT and DoF employees

113 DoF attendance at overseas OECD conference

113 FBT, DoF and motor vehicle logbooks

113-14 1 Buy Australian1 policy in DoF?

114 Staff monitoring system - prediction of problems

114-15 Staff monitoring system - reports available

109.

115 Budget management system - cost decrease

115-16 Payments by direct deposit system

116 Exchange rate variations - impact on o 1 seas DoF posts

116 Payroll and staffing monitor systems

116 Computer hire and purchase

116 Common computer network in DoF?

116 RSI

116-17 Dispensing with temporary staff in last few days of

June

117 Slight fall in average staffing costs

117-18 Average days delay in paying creditors

118 Options, tenders, etc for new computer network

118-19 Need for DoF monitoring of payment of creditors

119 Tendering process for computer acquisition

119 Devolution of flexible resource management to regions

119-20 Carryover of unspent funds to new financial year

120-21 Improvement in cash management efficiency

121 US purchases - protection against exchange losses

121-22 DoF checks on legality of statutory authority

spending

122 Loan Bills and legal authority to spend

SUPERANNUATION FUND INVESTMENT TRUST

122-23 Number of contributors

123 Implementation of 1986 legislation

123-24 Shift allowances counted as salary and like problems

n o .

124 Total liability for super of Cth public servants on

an actuarial basis

124-25 Invalidity retirements

125 SFIT, program budgeting and monitoring return on

funds invested

125 Increased flexibility for SFIT management

125-26 DoF monitoring of SFIT

126 Investment policy of SFIT - o 1 seas investing

126 Increase in number of contributors/value of

contributions

126 Salaries paid to managers

126-27 Buy-outs of pension liability

127-28 Acceptance of medical reports/invalidity retirements

128 Appropriation for holders of public office

128 DFRB fund

128 Breakdown between PS/non-PS contributors to SFIT

128-29 Provision for paid inoperatives and leave loading

128-29 Furniture replacement

129-30 Union-controlled super - industrial relations

130 Miscellaneous revenue, one-off receipts, transfer

values from DFRDB contributors

130 Monitoring SFIT performance

130 Other Cth-sector super funds

130-31 Former TAA super fund

Ill.

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

131 Act of grace payments

131-34 Natural disaster relief

134 Cyclone Winifred

134-35 Canberra Commercial Development Authority

135-36 Natural disaster relief

136 SES positions in DoF

136 Invalidity retirements

136 Employment of temporaries - sick leave

136-37 Tender for computer network equipment

137-38 Personnel development within DoF

138 Type/cost of special stationery

138 Foreign exchange exposure on purchase of network

equipment

138-39 Industrial democracy

AUSTRALIAN AUDIT OFFICE

139-40 Audit for receipts - provision for on-costs

140-41 Use of commercial auditors

141-42 Audits and efficiency audits - reports to Parliament

142 Audit or efficiency audit of Audit Office itself

142 DEIR's job-seeker computer

142 Invalidity retirements

143 Efficiency audits/financial audits - proportion

143-44 Use of consultants

112.

144 FBT

144-45 Legal costs - compensation cases

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

NATIONAL OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY COMMISSION

146 Achievements since Dec. 1985

146- 47 Co-operation with States

147 Compatibility of statistics

147- 48 RSI

TRADE UNION TRAINING AUTHORITY

148 Successful programs

148- 49 Recent trends in training

149 Courses on industrial democracy

149 Effectiveness of training

113.

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Friday, 19 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Page Issues

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS

532-33 Minister's opening statement

533-34 Videos, Entertainment and Information Services System

534-35,536,537 Invalidity retirements

535,536,537 Employment and sick leave of casuals

535 Special stationery for Ministers, etc.

535-36 ABC advertising on commercial media outlets

537-40 Supplementary licences scheme

540,559-60 Provision of commercial TV in remote areas of SA

540-41 FBT

541-42 ABC/SBS merger - resulting savings

560 Travel costs - chairman of Broadcasting Council

560 ABT and unsatisfactory nature of method of vetting

share transactions

560-61 ABT inquiries regulations - declare names/addresses;

identify in submission the power which ABT has to act

on submission

561-62 Public broadcasting grants/funding

114.

562-63 Recruitment/retention of engineers

563 Telecommunications access to East Timor

563 Proposed policy guidelines for statutory authorities

TELECOM

563-64 Debt portfolios - interest rate levels

564 Support for Australian industry; local content

565 Pacific optical fibre network

565 Optical fibre networks within Australia

565 Viatel services

565-66 Vandalised phones

566 Rates schedules - country areas '

566 Telememo system - security

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

542-43 ABC managing director's opening statement

543 Chairman's statement

543-45 COMPAS payroll system

545 Status of Mr LeGallant

545-46 Assets register

546 Title documents to ABC land

546 Reasons for discrepancies found by Audit

546-47 Computerised stores system

547-49 Artist fees system

549-50 Integrated management info system to feed info down

to production units

115.

550-51 Debtors system problems

551-52 Creditors system problems

552 Internal audit problems

552 Mail order bank accounts

552-53 FBT

553 Coverage of PM's 'Buy Australia1 launch

553-54 'Flying Start1 program

554 Coverage of ALP Hobart Conference

555 Local content in ABC programming

555 Molomby case - legal advice taken by the ABC

555 Defamation action by Chairman

555-56 Corporate logos, etc. appearing in ABC programs

556-57, 566 Adverts for ABC programs placed in local press

557, 558-59 Political balance in programming - statistics etc.

557 ABC chairman's salary, benefits

557-58 Last minute budget cut

558 Budget cut and staff training

558 Program purchases - local/overseas

558 ABC Enterprises - costs/sales

558 Regional commercial TV changes

559, 566 Statement attributed to ABC in Brisbane Sun of 19/9

566 Advert for sporting program placed in Qld. press

566-68, 571-72 Questions arising from Education and the Arts inquiry

into ABC radio racing service

568-69 Apparent transfer of admin, expenses from corporate

sector

569 Transmission charges on TV

116.

569-70

570­

571

571

572

572­

573

573­

574

574

574

574

574­

575

575

575

575·

576

576

577

577·

578

578

71

73

74

581-82

75

76

77

78

Costs of program purchases; exchange rate and

overseas purchases; forward cover

Spending on news and current affairs

Marketing operation income

Radio Australia - Japanese - salaries

Coverage of Pope's visit

Networking Radio 2 morning program from Adelaide;

Radio 1 breakfast programs; networking; country

breakfast programs

ABC staff reporting Parliament

Cut in children's and educational TV output

Cost of termination payments

Staff moves from production to management

ABC/SBS merger - effect on terminations; operation of

working party

Management structure

Second regional radio network proposal

Ratings of 7 o'clock news

Increase in 'overheads'

Increase in 'building services'

ABC policy on sending staff to South Africa

Training radio and TV staff; foreign trainees

Overstating of capital expenditure for last 10 years?

Capital expenditure - ABC news department, Adelaide

Demise of 'National' - led to staff cuts?

Redundancy - payments, numbers, re-employment

Appointment of legal reporter

117.

578 'Country Hour1 - plans, staff numbers

578-79 Comalco case

579-80 Taking legal advice on potentially controversial

programs; ABC legal department; defamation cases

581 Edinburgh Commonwealth games

581 Port Moresby and South Pacific correspondents

SPECIAL BROADCASTING SERVICE

583 Merger with ABC - cost savings, benefits

583 Inadequate TV transmission facilities

583-84 Audience reach

584 Contracts requiring Ministerial approval

584 Plans to further diversify TV offerings

584 Hours of children's TV

584 Community access programming

584 SBS sales overseas

585 Relocation of 2EA and 3EA

585-86 Community support for SBS1s English as second

language program; sales of programs; contract staff

118.

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING TRIBUNAL

586 FBT

586,588 Workload, difficulties arising from only small

increase in appropriation; backlogs in hearings and

licensing work

586-87 Problems caused by new inquiry regulations - program

standards work; expediting hearings

587-88 Legal expenses; Murdoch enquiry

587 Relocation of all ABT staff in Sydney

587 Anti-smoking commercial

588 Bond licence renewal in Brisbane

588 Criteria for fitness to hold licence

588 FBT

AUSTRALIA POST

589-90 Rail/road line haul system

590-91, 593 'We Deliver1 campaign and other advertising/promotion

591-92 Recent price increases

592 Standards of performance; problem areas

592 Priority paid mail - industrial disputes

593 Need for postal users council

593 Tender for electronic counter-service terminals, and

for EFT

119 .

SE N A T E

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Wednesday, 24 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Page Issues

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

749-50

759-51

751

751-52

752

752,754,757

752

Failure of Exp. Notes figures to match Budget Paper

No. 6

Explanation of JOBSTART, success rate, monitoring,

staff levels, admin expenses, no. on program

Labour Adjustment Training Program - Whyalla steel

redundancies

Adult % of total long-term unemployed; % of funds to

adults and to juniors; future trends

Costs of Hancock and Kirby inquiries

Trade union delegation to Europe - DEIR's role

Schemes under which DEIR provides fund to unions

120.

753 Invalidity retirements

753 Employment of contract/casual employees

753 Special stationery for Minister, etc

754 grants to ethnic groups; their political

affiliations; sponsor contributions; reports by those

groups

754-55 Proportion of CEP funds going to trade union projects

755-56,758,765 Monitoring of CEP projects; Cth/State

responsibilities

756 King study for NIEIR of CEP

756-57 Co-ordination of various training and job creation

schemes offered by DEIR

757 Effect of schemes on statistics of people employed in

private sector

757-58,760 Christmas Island retraining

758 Research to identify special disadvantage among

women, migrants, etc

758 Continuing need for labour market programs?

758-59 Success rate figures for CEP

759-60 Cost per job created through CEP, Waste Watch

calculation

759 Cost of, attendance at, Cba conference on local

employment initiatives, July 86

760-61 Increase of 265% in admin expenses - adult training

program

761 FBT

1 2 1 .

761-62 Tripartite missions overseas - increase in funding,

countries visited

762 Group apprenticeship schemes - industries/regions

involved

762-63 Off-the-job training; CRAFT program, training days

not taken up; evaluation of success

763 Work Skill Australia

763 Admin expenses increase in youth vocational training

sub-program

763 Experimental training program

763-65 Specific programs for migrants with English language

difficulties; effect of cutback on multicultural

program

765 CEP spending broken up between categories A, B, and C

recipients and between public and private sector

projects

765-70 Footscray swimming pool CEP project

770 Tilley Devine project - state of investigations

770 Coalcliff swimming pool project

770-71 JOBSTART and job seeker programs -

descriptions/relationship

771-72,775 Job seeker program - stage of implementation, no. of

people involved, computer software, tender process,

trials

772-73 Limits on nature of applicants who can be specified

by employer - equal opportunity

773 Mobility assistance

1 2 2 .

773

773-74

774

774

774

775-76

773

776-77

777

777-78

778

778

778

778

778

Industry and regional assistance program - % going to

Illawarra region

CYSS - spending, projects, relationship to other

programs, etc

Aboriginal programs

RSI

Entertainment and travelling expenses of CBS

employees

CES administration

Removal of Arbitration Commission to new Sydney

premises; timetable; offices for visiting ·

Commissioners

Working environment sub-program - gap between 85/86

estimates and actuals; delays on approvals; demand

for services

Demand for research reports through AGPS bookshops.

Affirmative Action Agency - activities, relation to

Women's Bureau

Labour market and economic analysis sub-program -

1 program evaluation increases' and spending

variations

Cost of ILO membership

Aust. Council for Employment and Training and the

bodies which it will replace

Increase in appropriation for sub-program 7.1,

executive, policy co-ordination etc

Public communications

123 .

S E N A T E

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Thursday, 25 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Page Issues

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

958-59

959

959

959

959

960

Explanation for 9.2% rise in salaries appropriation;

staff members in various sections; redeployment of

FIRB staff

Revenue from disallowance of deductability of

entertainment expenses; monitoring early returns

Possible establishment of Australian re-insurance

market

FIRB proposals modified after discussions with Board

Treasurery monitoring of transfer pricing to evade

tax

Prudential requirements - Commonwealth Bank, private

banks

124 .

960-62 Senator Vigor's questions put on notice

962 FBT questions put on notice

963 Work done to estimate revenue from disallowance of

claims for entertainment expenses

963 Estimates of effect on wine market of increase in

sales tax; amounts of tax collected

963-64 Reliability of Budget forecast of 36,000 rise in

those on unemployment benefits; possible dates when

forecast might be revised

964-65 Progress on establishment of Occupational

Superannuation Commissioner's Office; relationship of

OSC to Tax Office; review of trust deeds; position of

self-employed .

966 Status of Government's negotiations with unions on

productivity-based super

966 Monitoring of, reporting by, super funds

966 Australian shares in Int. Finance Corp.

967 FBT - application of penalty provisions to Department

967-68 Delays in providing interest statements to Australian

Savings Bond holders

968 Interdepartmental group on interaction between super,

pensions and social security system

968-69,970 FBT - loss on sale of car; official phones; spouse

travel; legal costs on sale of house; overseas

reunion; submission of Australian Bankers' Assoc

969 FBT - estimates total collections; method of

estimating

125.

969 Method of estimating revenue from capital gains tax

969-70 Method of estimates on Australia Card

970 N.Z. exports to Australia - taxation exemption?

970 Cost of short term overseas missions

970 Provision/purchase of computer time

970 Hospitality expenses

970-71 Breakdown of 'miscellaneous' in 760/2/05

971 FBT - advertising costs

971 Quality of new recruits to Treasury

971-72 % of capital in Int. Finance Corp. held by Australia

972 PSA - reunion fees for Chief Executive Officer

972 PSA - hire of media consultant

972-73 Mint - need for extra coin preses; use of projector,

band-saw, count and bag line

973 Production of gold coins

973-74 Mint production for other countries

974 Standardisation of mini-computers at Mint

974 Savings bank deposit interest subsidy

974-75 Invalidity retirements; employment of casuals; cost

of Ministerial etc. stationery

AUSTRALIAN BUREAU OF STATISTICS

975 Performance of survey and census contractors; payment

975 Labour cost survey - format, timing, demand for

975-76 Charging users for surveys

976 Degree of confidence in survey results

1 2 6 .

976 Increase in compensation payments; entitlements

976-78 Population survey - frequency, superannuation

questions; employee benefits questions; involvement

of Tax Office

978 Office cleaning expenses

978-80 RSI

980 Separation payments

980 Staff numbers; inoperatives

980 Total cost of census

980 Invalidity retirements; casual staff; cost of

Ministerial etc. stationery

AUSTRALIAN TAXATION OFFICE

980 FBT - 13 questions put on notice

980-81 Increase in salaries estimate

981-984 Number in Australia receiving fringe benefits; number

in public sector; expected return in full year

981 Use of ABS survey in FBT estimates

981-82 Enforcement of s.26(e) of Income Tax Assessment Act;

revenue collected

982 FBT - publicity in October?

982-84 FBT - ATO liability in respect of its employees;

benefits available; history; employees taxed under

s.26(e)

984 FBT - cashing-out of benefits

127 .

984 FBT - ΑΤΟ vehicles, log books, 'each business trip'

985 'Waiver' of s.26(e) liability for people in remote

areas?

985-86 'FBT and Farmers' booklet - authorship, ATO input

986 FBT and taxpayer's own vehicle

986 Prescribed payments scheme - extra taxpayers

identified as a result of

986-87 FBT - car log books, recording distances; statutory

formula

987 FBT - homesteads, council rates

987,994 FBT - 'recipients rent'

987-88 FBT - National Trust homes

988 Capital gains tax on option issues

988 Bottom of harbour cases - staff engaged in

investigation, recovery, success rate

988-89 Number of officers investigating fraud cases; liaison

with AFP; Tolhurst case; amount of tax defrauded for

86/87

989 Capital gains tax - unit trusts

989 FBT - remote area housing, shared accommodation

989 Fringe benefit as a tax deduction for employer

989-90 ATO estimate of cost to private/public sector of FBT

administration; cost to ATO for own employees

990 Estimate of budgeted revenue from capital gains tax

990-91,993 Transfer of appeals to AAT - $200 filing fee; tax

deductability of costs of preparing appeal, of tax

audit

128.

391-92 Self-assessment - possibility of many years delay

before taxpayer can be sure that current year will

not be subject to audit

992 Liability for honest mistakes

992,993 Difficulties for taxpayers in obtaining advice from

ATO

993 Giving of advance rulings, delays

993-94 AAT appeals - extra staff at AAT, savings at ATO

994 Reasons for AAT tax decisions

994 Dividend imputation system

994 Capital gains of farm-out agreements in mining

industry

994-95 Drafting of tax legislation - degree"of discretion

left to Commissioner; complexity of legislation

995,996 Difficulty of answering in time all questions taken

on notice; resources available to answer

995-96 FBT - Institutute of Chartered Accountants' questions

996-97 Demands by Tax in relation to unpaid company tax

legislation

997 Estimate of revenue benefit from Australia Card

997 Legislation to remove statute of limitations on tax

recovery actions

997 FBT - car parking

997-98,999 FBT - mining towns, housing sold to employees,

buy-back options

998-99 Sales tax rulings - delays, 1Albury-Wodonga Trading

Post' case

129.

999 Tobacco growers - deductions for business expenses

999-1000 Penalties on Departments for late payment of FBT;

leniency

1000 Difficulty in admin, of FBT compared to other taxes

1000 FBT video - tax deductability; public reaction; cost

1000-01 FBT - gifts given to employees, deceased employees,

terminating employees

1001-02 FBT - employer contributions to trusts for injured

employees? provision of protective clothing compared

to cars

1002 Amount collected by wine tax

1002 Overtime worked at ATO? flexitime

1003 Breakdown of printing cost associated with tax reform

measures; other costs of those measures

1003 Ratio of cost/revenue collected for FBT, income tax

1003 Legal expenses

1003 Number of outstanding tax appeals

1003 Indemnification of trustees in bankruptcy

1004 Prescribed payments system - Audit's criticisms

130.

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Monday, 13 October 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Page Issues

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY

1131- 32

1132- 33

1133

1133

1133- 34

1134

1134- 35

1135

1135

Department's opening statement

Fringe Benefits Tax - answers to questions on notice

Invalidity retirements - answers to questions on

notice

Casual staff - answers to questions on notice

Special stationery - answers to questions on notice

Int. Relations Branch - no. of overseas staff, pay,

role

Freedom of information

Correction to p. 19 of Explanatory Notes

Admin. expenses, 490.2 - reasons for increase

131.

1135-36 Fishing licences - northern prawn fishery

1136 Use of consultants; consultants in

Washington/Brussels

1136-37 Rural and Allied Industry Policy Council

1137 Beverage services

1137 Plant Varietal Rights Inquiry

1137 Paterson's curse - biological control, legal action

1137-38 Cost of Government's rural policy initiatives

1138 Fringe Benefits Tax

1138-39 Agricultural co-operation visits

1139-40 Fringe Benefits Tax - written questions tabled

1140 Australian Special Rural Research Trust Fund

1140 Monitoring overseas customer satisfaction

1140 Wool Branch staff - services to AWC

1140-41 Setting wool prices

1141 Restructuring within Dep't re wool research etc.

1141 Wool promotion

1141 Activities of foreign fishing vessels in Aust. waters

1141 Forestry scholarships

1141-42 Coastal surveillance - outlays, adequacy

1142 Sale of seized foreign vessels

1142-43 Aust. Animal Health Laboratory

1143-44 Aust. Meat and Livestock Industry Policy Council

1144 National Soil Conservation Program

1144,1147 CIBA-Geigy, hazardous chemicals

1144-47 Employee compensation claims

1147-48 Drought relief interest subsidy scheme

132.

1148 Fringe Benefits Tax - meat inspectors, cash-out

1148-49 Export Inspection Service, possibility of contracting

out

1149 Radioactivity levels in food imports

1149-50 Meat substitution - prosecutions

1150 RSI - consultancies

1150 Ministerial Orders, guidelines - printing costs

1150 Bureau of Agricultural Economics - cost of reports

1150 Port Kembla grain terminal

1150-51 Rural adjustment - expenditure, revenue

1151 Assistance to users of fertilizers

1151 Quarantine costs - effect of America's Cup

1151 New quarantine fees

1151-52 Delay in approving new agricultural chemicals

133 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 4

TUESDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.35 p.m. The Chairman,

Senator Bruce Childs, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

The Committee agreed to consider estimates of the Department

by program and sub-program.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh, Minister

for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:

Depaxtment_of_Finanee

Mr D. Shand First Assistant Secretary Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr M. Holmes Assistant Secretary Financial Management Improvement Branch

Dr H. Johnston First Assistant Secretary General Expenditure Division

137 .

Mr M. Woolley First Assistant Secretary Regional and Accounting Operations Division

Mr N. McKenna Acting Assistant Secretary Accounting Operations Branch

Mr R. Groves Director, Operations Section ADR Branch

Mr C. Orr Assistant Secretary

Commonwealth Superannuation Branch

Ms S. Fenwick Assistant Secretary Retirement Benefits Branch

Mr L. Osmond Acting Principal Adviser Transport and Industry Division

Mr J . Galloway Assistant Secretary Resource Policies and Management Branch

Mr J . Walsh Director

Personnel and Establishments Section

Mr W. Jackson Assistant Secretary Budget Development Branch

Mr J. Chandler Senior Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr T. Wilson Senior Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Δϋ§£ralian_Government_Retirement_Benefits_Office

Mr R. MeKillop Assistant Commissioner Resources Management Branch

Mr J . Burston Acting Director Financial Management Services Section

Mr K. McCullough Director Financial and Management Services Section

Mr R. Jackson Finance Officer Financial and Management Services Section

Australian_Audit_Office

Mr C. Monaghan

Mr B. Kimball

Mr C. McPherson

Mr B. Rossell

Mr F. Campbell

Acting Deputy Auditor-General

Acting First Assistant Auditor-General Corporate Management Division

Assistant Auditor-General Planning and Resource Management Branch

Director Facilities Management Section

Executive Officer Resource Management Section

Expenditure proposed in divisions 304, 305 and 864 is

contained in the following programs as set out in the

Department of Finance's 1986-87_Estimates__-__Explanatory

Notes!

Program 1

" 2

3

4

.5

Budget Development and Management

Resource Management Support to Departments

and Agencies

Accountability

Retirement Benefits

Specific Payment Schemes

Corporate Services

The Chairman called on these programs for consideration.

To consider proposed expenditure not contained in these

programs the Chairman then called on division 307 and line

item 864-1-03.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars

of Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Expenditure under the

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1985-86 subject to an

undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee.

13 9 .

The Committee resolved that questions submitted in writing

by Senator Vigor be incorporated in Hansard.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

The Committee agreed to consider estimates of the Department

by program and sub-program.

5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh, Minister

for Finance representing the Minister for Employment and

Industrial Relations, accompanied by the following officers:

Department_pf_Employment_and_Industrial_Relations

Mr J. Bowdler Deputy Secretary

Mr A. Fogarty Deputy Secretary

Mr K. Power First Assistant Secretary Management & Policy Co-ordination Division

Mr D. Power Assistant Secretary

Resources Management Branch

Mr P. Cummiskey Acting Assistant Secretary Training Division

Mr R. Halstead Principal Executive Officer Training Division

Mr M. Murphy Assistant Secretary Training Division

Mr G . Lampe First Assistant Secretary Programs Division

Mr N. Schouten Assistant Secretary Programs Division

Mr R. Hodgson First Assistant Secretary Systems Division

Mr B . Frawley First Assistant Secretary Industrial Relations Operations Division

140 .

Mr J. O'Shea First Assistant Secretary CBS Operations Division

Mr G. McGill First Assistant Secretary Industrial Relations Policy Division

Mr C. Wood Secretary

Interim Australian Council on Employment and Training

Mr G. Dixon First Assistant Secretary

Mr J . Leyden A/g Manager Administration Office of the Industrial Registrar

Mr K. Stone National Director

Australian Trade Union Training Authority

Mr D. Cooper Administrator Australian Trade Union Training Authority

Mr J. Brassil Chairman Worksafe Australia

Mr I Cameron Assistant Secretary Corporate Services Worksafe Australia

Ms V. Pratt Interim Director

Affirmative Action Agency

Ms S. Walpole Acting Director Women's Bureau

Mr D. Lyons Acting Assistant Secretary CBS Operations Division

Department of Finance

Mr T. Wilson Senior Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr A. Turner Senior Finance Officer Education and Employment Division

The Chairman called on the following Sub-Programs for

consideration:

Sub-Program 5.7 National Occupational Health and

Safety Commission

" 5.6 Trade Union Training Authority

111 .

The Committee concluded its consideration of sub-programs 5.6

and 5.7.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.33 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Childs (Chairman), Boswell, Brownhill,

Devlin, Maguire, Parer. Senators M. Baume, Colston,

Kilgariff, Messner, Reid, Siddons, Tate and Vigor also

attended.

CONFIRMED

(B. Childs) Chairman

142.

THE S E N A T E

FRIDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

M I N U T E S O F P R O C E E D I N G S

NO. 5

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.21 a .m. The Chairman,

Senator Bruce Childs, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS

The Committee agreed to consider estimates for the Department by

program and sub-program.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh, Minister

for Finance representing the Minister for Communications,

accompanied by the following officers:

Segartment_of_Communications

Mr E.E. Payne

Mr P. Westerway

Mr D. Kelly

Ms E.J. Davidson

Mr R.N. Smith

Acting Secretary

Acting Deputy Secretary

Acting First Assistant Secretary Corporate Policy and Projects Division

Acting Assistant Secretary Resources Management Branch Corporate Policy and Projects Division

First Assistant Secretary Broadcasting Policy and Planning Divis.

14 3.

Mr M.R. Ramsay First Assistant Secretary

Radio Frequency Management Division

Mr V.H. Jones First Assistant Secretary

Broadcasting Services Division

Mr J.D. Maclean Assistant Secretary

External Relations Branch Space, Telecommunications and Postal Policy Division

Mr M, O'Doherty Acting Assistant Secretary

Finance and Regulatory Branch Space, Telecommunications and Postal Policy Division

Mr B.G. Foster Director, Personnel

Resources Management Branch Corporate Policy and Projects Division

Mrs R. Martindale Director, Finance Resources Management Branch Corporate Policy and Projects Division

Mr W. Ellis Assistant Secretary

Communications Systems and Technology Branch Communications Strategy Division.

Australian_Broadcasting_Co£B2 cation

Mr G. Whitehead Managing Director

Mr K. Jackson Controller, Corporate Relations

Ms J.M. Ercole Director, Human Resources

Mr G.E. Moriarty Director, Engineering and Property

Mr G. Reynolds Acting Director, Television

Mr M.W. Long Director, Radio

Ms H. Mills Director, Policy and Planning

Mr R. Coombe Controller, Finance

Special Broadcasting Service

Mr M.A. Sullivan Head of Corporate Affairs

Mr P.J. Conroy Head of Television

Mr S. Kerkysharian Head of Radio

Mr R.J. Gowing Assistant Director, Finance Assistant Director, Finance

Mstralian_Broadcasting_Tribunal

Mr M.J. Hanna Acting Director

Public Inquiry and Licensing Division

Mr J.P. Hickey Acting Assistant Secretary

Administration

Australian_Postal_Commission

Mr C.J. Grosser

Mr J.E. Nicholls

Mr J.A. Wilson

Manager Message Transfer Branch Marketing Department

Manager Operational Systems Branch Operational Services Department

Acting Manager Management Accounting Section Financial Operations Branch Finance and Accounting Department

Mstralian_Tglecommunications_Cpmmissipn

Mr G.H. Jacoby

Mr F.A. Campbell

Department_of_Finance

Mr T. Wilson

Mr M. Crompton

Mr P. O'Brien

Manager, Financial Planning

Manager, Programming and Resources

Senior Finance Officer Financial Management Policy Division and Accounting

Chief Finance Officer Transport and Industry Division

Finance Officer General Expenditure Division

Expenditure proposed in divisions 200-202 and 833-834 is

contained in the following programs, as set out in the

Department's Estimates__of__Expenditure_1 0 8 6 3 8 7__3_Explanatory

Notes:

Program 1

" 2

" 3

Broadcasting

Radio Frequency Management

Satellite, Telecommunications and Postal

Services

145 .

" 4 Communications Development

" 5 Corporate Services

The Chairman called on these programs for consideration.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of

Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Expenditure under the Advance

to the Minister for Finance 1985-86 subject to an undertaking by

the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

The Committee resolved that questions submitted in writing by

Senators M. Baume, Brownhill, Childs, Colston, Puplick and Vigor

be incorporated in Hansard.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.25 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Childs (Chairman), Boswell, Brownhill,

Devlin, Maguire. Senators Alston, M. Baume, Colston,

Kilgariff, Morris, Puplick, Robertson and Vigor also

attended. An apology was received from Senator Parer.

CONFIRMED

(B. Childs)

Chairman

146 .

T H E S E N A T E

WEDNESDAY, 24 SEPTEMBER 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

M I N U T E S O F P R O C E E D I N G S

NO. 6

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.05 p.m. The Chairman,

Senator Bruce Childs, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Gareth Evans QC,

Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Minister

for Employment and Industrial Relations, accompanied by the

following officers:

Department_pf_Employment_and_Industrial_Relations

Mr J. Bowdler Deputy Secretary

Mr A. Fogarty Deputy Secretary

Mr K. Power First Assistant Secretary Management & Policy Co-ordination Division

Mr D. Power Assistant Secretary

Resources Management Branch

Mr R. Marshman Acting Assistant Secretary Training Division

Mr R. Halstead Principal Executive Officer Training Division

1^7.

Mr M. Murphy Assistant Secretary Training Division

Mr G. Lampe First Assistant Secretary

Programs Division

Mr N. Schouten Assistant Secretary Programs Division

Mr R. Hodgson First Assistant Secretary Systems Division

Mr B. Frawley First Assistant Secretary Industrial Relations Operations Division

Mr J. O'Shea First Assistant Secretary CBS Operations Division

Mr G. McGill First Assistant Secretary Industrial Relations Policy Division

Mr C. Wood Secretary

Interim Australian Council on Employment and Training

Mr G. Dixon First Assistant Secretary

Mr J. Leyden A/g Manager Administration Office of the Industrial Registrar

Ms V. Pratt Director

Interim Affirmative Action Agency

Ms S. Walpole Acting Director Women's Bureau

Mr D. Lyons Acting Assistant Secretary CES Operations Division

Degartment_of_Finance

Mr T. Wilson Senior Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr K . Henry Chief Finance Officer

Education and Employment Division

Ms M. Crooks Finance Officer General Expenditure Division

i'.S .

Expenditure proposed in Divisions 287-292 and 860-862 is

contained in the following programs, as set out in the

Department's Estimates_of_ExpenditU£e_l986-87_r_Explanatory

Notesi

Program 1

Program 2

Program 3

Program 4

Program 5

Program 6

Program 7

Training

Job Creation and Employment Assistance

Community Based and Aboriginals

Placement/Delivery and Information

Services

Industrial Relations and Wages and Incomes

Economic and Labour Market Advising

Corporate Services

The Chairman called on these programs for consideration,

with the exception of sub-programs 5.6 and 5.7, of which the

Committee completed consideration at its meeting on 18

September 1986.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars

of Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Expenditure under the

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1985-86 subject to an

undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee.

The Committee resolved that questions submitted in writing

by Senators Brownhill and Vigor be incorporated in Hansard.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.03 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Childs (Chairman), Brownhill, Devlin,

Maguire, Parer. Senators M. Baume, Short and Vigor also

attended. An apology was received from Senator Boswell.

CONFIRMED

(B. Childs) Chairman

14S .

THE SENATE

THURSDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

M I N U T E S O F P R O C E E D I N G S

NO. 7

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.55 p.m. The Chairman,

Senator Bruce Childs took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Peter Walsh, Minister

for Finance representing the Treasurer, accompanied by the

following officers:

DSE§rtment_of_the_Treasury

Dr C. Higgins

Mr B.J. Gleeson

Mr J. Foster

Mr G. Burns

Mr E. Wojcik

Deputy Secretary

Assistant Secretary Co-ordination and Management Branch

Director, ADP Development Centre Co-ordination and Management Branch

Director, Personnel Management Co-ordination and Management Branch

Acting Finance Officer Co-ordination and Management Branch

Mr J. Jepsen Chief Finance Officer

Private Sector Transactions Branch Financial Institutions Division

150 .

Mr N. Stuparich Head of the Office of the

Occupational Superannuation Commissioner Interim Group

Mr B. McLennan Acting Controller

Royal Australian Mint

Mr D. Chessell Assistant Secretary State and Local Government Finances Branch Revenue, Loans and Investment Division

Mr D. Buchler Chief Finance Officer

Loans and Debt Management Branch Revenue, Loans and Investment Division

Mr J. Wright Assistant Secretary

Personal and International Taxation Policy Branch Taxation Policy Division

Mr J. Jones Chief Executive officer

Prices Surveillance Authority

Ms L. Toohey Acting Director .

Finance and Services Section Co-ordination and Management Branch

Australian Bureau of Statistics

Mr R.W. Edwards First Assistant Statistician Co-ordination and Management Division

Mr R.A. Phillips Acting Assistant Statistician Resource Management Branch

Mr C. Clements Assistant Statistician Prices Branch

Mr R. Green Acting First Assistant Statistician

Economic Censuses and Surveys Division

Mr R. Harrison Director

Health, Education and Other Social Section

Mr K. Busteed Director

Labour Household Surveys

Mr J . Paice Acting Assistant Statistician

Population Census and Demography Branch

151.

Mr D. Leaver Assistant Statistician

Statistical Services

Mr J. Crocker Assistant Statistician

Technology Planning Branch

Ms M.C. Jones Director

Resource Management and Systems Section

Mr P.B. Sheppard Director Personnel Operations Section

Ms P. Guy Senior Inspector

Finance Management Sub-Section

Australian_Taxation_Office

Mr E.V. Killesteyn Assistant Commissioner Resources

Mr G.R. Seymour Senior Assistant Commissioner Systems

Mr W.W. Reed Assistant Commissioner

Tax Reform

Mr D. Nolan Assistant Commissioner

Policy and Legislation

DSB5Itment_of_Fj.nance

Mr T. Wilson Senior Finance Officer

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr P. Richardson Chief Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr D. Ingham Chief Finance Officer

General Expenditure Division

The Chairman called on the following divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 670, 672, 676, 678 (Document A)

Divisions 976, 977, 978, 980, 982 (Document B)

152.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars

of Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Expenditure under the

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1985-86 subject to an

undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee.

The Committee resolved that questions submitted in writing

by Senators Brownhill, Parer and Vigor be incorporated in

Hansard.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.48 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Childs (Chairman), Brownhill, Devlin,

Maguire, Parer. Senators Kilgariff, Messner and Vigor also

attended. An apology was received from Senator Boswell.

CONFIRMED:

(B. CHILDS) Chairman

153 .

THE SENATE

MONDAY, 13 OCTOBER 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

M I N U T E S O F P R O C E E D I N G S

NO. 8

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.03 pm. The Chairman, Senator

Bruce Childs took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY

3. IN ATTENDANCE: The following officers attended:

Department of Primary Industry

Mr J.L. Gibson

Mr P.T. Core

Ms F. Cassidy

Mr D.L. Coutts

Dr 0. Kingma

Mr P.H. Langhorne

Mr L.W. Lane

Mr B.V. Lilburn

Dr J.R. Baker

Mr D.D.R. Pearson

Deputy Secretary

First Assistant Secretary Livestock and Pastoral Division

First Assistant Secretary Crops Division

Acting First Assistant Secretary Rural Policy Division

Acting Director Bureau of Agricultural Economics

Director Export Inspection Service

Acting Director Australian Agricultural Health & Quarantine Service

Assistant Director Management & Development Branch Australian Fisheries Service

First Assistant Secretary Corporate Services Division

Assistant Secretary Corporate Resources Branch Corporate Services Division

154.

Mr J.R. Smith Assistant Secretary

Management Services Branch Corporate Services Division

Mr J. Jenkins Assistant Director

Australian Agricultural Health & Quarantine Service

Mr P. Allan Assistant Secretary

Rural Policy Division

Ms R. Beetham Principal Executive Officer

Rural Policy Division

Department_of_Pinance

Mr T.S. Wilson Senior Finance Officer

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Mr S. Wood Senior Finance Officer

Transport and Industry Division

The Chairman called on the following divisions for

consideration: ,

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of

Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Expenditure under the Advance

to the Minister for Finance 1985-86 subject to an undertaking to

provide additional information to the Committee.

The Committee resolved that questions submitted in writing by

Senator Brownhill be incorporate in Hansard.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.01 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Childs (Chairman) , Brownhill, Devlin,

Parer. Senator M. Baume also attended. Apologies were

received from Senators Boswell and Maguire.

CONFIRMED:

B. CHILDS

(Chairman!

Divisions 490, 495, 497 (Document A) Divisions 930, 932, 933 (Document B)

THE SE N A T E

WEDNESDAY, 15 OCTOBER 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E C

M I N U T E S O F P R O C E E D I N G S

NO. 9

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at

12.50 pm in Senate Committee Room 6. The Chairman, Senator

Bruce Childs, took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held

on Tuesday 16 September 1986

Friday 19 September 1986

Wednesday 24 September 1986

Thursday 25 September 1986

Monday 13 October 1986.

were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the

Chairman's draft Report to the Senate.

Resolved: On the motion of Senator Brownhill that the

report be adopted.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.00 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were

present: Senator Childs, Brownhill, Devlin and Parer.

Apologies were received from Senators Boswell and Maguire.

CONFIRMED:

(B. Childs)

Chairman

156.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee D presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 22 August 1986, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1987, the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June

1987 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1986, relating to the following departments:

Education Housing and Construction .

Sport, Recreation and Tourism Arts, Heritage and Environment- Aboriginal Affairs 2

2 . The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Education (Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan), the Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce (Senator the Hon. John Button) and the Minister for Community Services (Senator the Hon. Don Grimes)

and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings, documents tabled during public hearings or provided as part of the additional information to the Committee, Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the

Committee and an index of issues raised during the public hearings are tabled for the informal ion of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1986-87 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1986-87 .

159.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates:

DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT

Australian Film Commission

The Committee was advised by the Australian Film Commission in its additional information that of the 22 Australian films launched at Cannes in 1986 only 10 have been commercially released in Australia. The AFC indicated that if the three major distributors do not take a film, the backlog through independent cinemas can be up to 18 months.

The Committee is concerned at this lack of opportunity for most Australians to view these films and is of the opinion that the AFC should be ensuring the widest possible domestic release of those Australian films which are launched at Cannes, or other overseas film festivals.

The Committee was interested to note the active participation of the AFC in 78 international film festivals between July 1985 and September 1986. A list of the festivals involved is provided in the AFC's additional information. The Committee was especially interested in the comprehensive coverage of film festivals undertaken by the AFC, and places the AFC on notice that the Committee will be considering this matter in more detail at future meetings.

The Committee is particularly interested in the personnel involved in participating in film festivals on a world wide basis, the travel costs incurred and the benefits derived for Australian films and their distribution generally.

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Australian National Gallery

The Committee noted that over $500 000 has been budgeted for refurbishment of the Gallery shop and foyer. In explanation, the Director of the Gallery advised the Committee that at the time when the form of the building was determined and the size of the building was determined, there were no plans for travelling exhibitions to the Gallery. Now that

international travelling exhibitions are successfully being displayed at the Gallery, a refurbishment of the facilities in the foyer area is required to manage the crowds attracted to

these exhibitions.

The Committee is concerned that the effects of an alteration to the exhibition policy of the Gallery has necessitated refurbishment within such a relatively new building at a cost of over $0.5m. -

National Library of Australia

The Committee was informed during its consideration of the estimates for the National Library that since February 1985 the significant movement in the value of the Australian dollar has resulted in a loss by about 30% in the Library's purchasing power for overseas material. This has had particular effects for the Library's acquisition of overseas

journal material.

The Committee notes that the policy adopted by the Library is to maintain a core collection which will be the basis of the national document delivery service. The Committee is concerned that whilst this will involve maintaining

subscriptions for rare, valuable and expensive items that are unlikely to be maintained elsewhere, the end result may well involve the cancellation of some serial titles that are unique.

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The Committee observes that technology transfer, which is recognised as vital to Australia's future, is to a large part- dependent on access to information which is contained in foreign technical journals.

The Committee was also informed that although the devaluation has had serious implications, it has acted as a catalyst for attempts to bring the library community into much more formal co-operation to explore the options of reaching much clearer understandings on who will take what responsibility for particular parts of the Australian collection. The Committee commends these attempts at achieving greater inter-library co-operation.

The Committee was concerned to learn that the National Library does not have general access to information about holdings in many Commonwealth libraries as not all Commonwealth departments put their material into the Australian Bibliographic Network. The Committee, therefore, expresses the hope that the initiatives to identify acquisitions held by libraries are extended to include the libraries of Commonwealth departments and authorities, which should be actively encouraged to file catalogue material with the ABN.

Proclamation of Acts

The Committee was concerned to learn of the lengthy delays that have occurred in proclaiming the Public Lending Rights Act 1985 and the Protection of Moveable Cultural Heritage Act 1986, neither of which has yet been proclaimed.

The Committee appreciates that there can sometimes be a number of legitimate reasons for not proclaiming or delaying the proclamation of legislation. The Department explained to

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the Committee that the delays in these cases result from the Department having to prepare a gazette notice for the Minister to spell out the operation of the Public Lending Rights scheme and to develop a national cultural heritage control list. The

Committee does not regard these explanations as satisfactory for the following reasons:

(i) There has been a considerable period of time since the Bills were introduced into Parliament. The Committee expects that if Regulations or any other actions need to be prepared consequent upon the passage of the Bills, such preparation would have commenced following their introduction or indeed in

conjunction with the original drafting. The legislative history of each Bill was as follows:

Public Lending Rights Act 1985 '

House of Representatives: Introduced - 17 April 1985 Passed - 9 May 1985 Senate: Introduced - 9 May 1985 Passed - 6 December 1985 Royal Assent: 16 December 1985

Protection of Moveable Cultural Heritage Act 1986 House of Representatives: Introduced - 27 November 1985 Passed - 18 February 1986 Senate: Introduced - 11 March 1986

Passed - 1 May 1986 Royal Assent: 13 May 1986

In respect of the Protection of Moveable Cultural Heritage Act, the Department indicated that it hoped the legislation will be proclaimed towards the end of 1987 - two years after its introduction in

Pariiament 1

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(ii) The effectiveness of the Senate's capacity to review

the Public Lending Rights Bill was reduced due to the Bill being pushed through the Senate's Committee of the Whole stage on the last sitting day in 1985, with the Government claiming its passage was urgently required.

The Committee is aware that there are a considerable number of Acts and sections of Acts awaiting proclamation. The Committee regards this situation as complete derogation of responsibility by departments and Ministers in allowing such a volume of legislation to remain inoperative. The Committee will be closely monitoring legislation with similar commencement provisions which are the responsibility of departments within the Committee's purview.

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION

As part of its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1987, the Committee considers certain Divisions which are within the Department of Defence but come under the control of the Department of Housing and Construction. The Committee makes the following observations on expenditure within these Divisions.

Defence Housing - Construction of new homes

The Explanatory Notes for Division 245 provide a breakdown of the proposed expenditure for new houses to be built during 1985-87. While the Committee has noted the Government's commitment to spend $7 50m over 10 years to

improve defence housing, it is concerned at what appears to be a very high unit cost per house spread nation wide.

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The Committee was informed that there are many contributing factors to the cost of a Defence house. These include:

. when a house is handed over to Defence it is ready to be occupied. It has complete internal fittings, a garage, fences and is landscaped; . infrastructural work is undertaken when new

subdivisions are created; . the requirement for differing standards of housing depending upon the rank of the Service personnel who are likely to occupy the completed house.

The Committee appreciates these compounding factors influence the cost of Defence housing, however it. remains concerned that a greater number of houses could be constructed out of the available funds, and without any reduction in

standard.

HMAS Nirimba - Construction of Swimming Pool

The Committee noted that an eight-lane Olympic pool with diving facilities is being constructed on HMAS Nirimba at a cost of $1.2m. In response to a question on the likelihood of the pool being used for competitive purposes, the Committee was informed that there could well be local competitions from

time to time, but it is basically a training fitness facility for the naval personnel based there.

The Committee was further informed that the Department of Housing and Construction had built quite a number of swimming pools over the years at various establishments and that this was probably one of the lower cost ones because often the pools are covered and heated. The Committee regards the construction of such high standard and high cost facilities to be extravagant at a time when many communities cannot afford

to construct similar facilities of a lower standard.

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In making these comments the Committee notes that whilst the Department of Housing and Construction acts in consultation with the client department, it is the responsibility of the client department, in this instance the Department of Defence, to provide specifications for its capital works requirements. This division of responsibilities has been noted previously by Estimates Committees, particularly Estimates Committee E in its October 1984 Report.

DEPARTMENT OF SPORT, RECREATION AND TOURISM

Australian Institute of Sport - Termination of Contracts

The Committee was not satisfied with the responses it received whilst seeking information concerning the financial settlement reached in regard to the termination of the contract of the former Executive Director of the AIS. The Committee was told that, to the knowledge of the General Manager, the settlement figure was never made public and that

its release to the Committee was a matter between the Chairman, the Board and the former Executive Director. The Committee had not received this information by the time it considered this Report, and reminds the Department of its obligations regarding the provision of additional information after hearings.

The Committee has noted, in this regard, the comments made by Estimates Committee A in its October 1985 Report- relating to the payment to the former Chief Executive of the Australian Bicentennial Authority upon the termination of his contract.

The Committee considers that whenever there are financial implications for the Commonwealth in the termination of such contracts, the information should be available for Estimates Committees. The Committee indicates that it will be pursuing this point as the contracts for other people in similar positions on the Commonwealth payroll are terminated.

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GENERAL

Length of time to fill vacant positions

The Committee was concerned at responses by departments which indicated significant variation from department to department in the average time taken to fill vacant positions. The estimated average time ranged from 4 to 5 months for the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment to about 3 months

for the Department of Housing and Construction - provided there were no appeals. The Committee was,, however, also informed that, it would probably be hard to bring the time down much below 2 months. The Committee believes that this would be

a worthy first target for departments to achieve.

The Committee draws attention to the overly bureaucratic procedures outlined by the Department of Education in Hansard, 18 September 1986, pl73. The Committee is of the opinion that there is ample scope for streamlining within these procedures which would have significant flow-on effects for staff numbers

on higher duties and result in less dislocation of staff within departments.

Program Budgeting

The Department of Aboriginal Affairs became the first- department. to be considered by Estimates Committee D to move to program budgeting. The Committee has noted the comments made by Estimates Committees A and C and the Finance and Government Operations Committee in relation to the pilot

departments examined during 1985-86.

The Committee agrees with the comments made by these Committees in relation to the documentation available to the Committees for their examination of program budgeting departments. During the introductory period for program

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budgeting they serve a valuable immediate purpose. However with the overlapping of information in these documents, the Committee notes the recommendation of Estimates Committee C in October 1985 to combine the information in a single document to facilitate examination. The Committee understands that it is the intention of the Department of Finance to phase out the Portfolio Program Statements document as program budgeting becomes established.

The Committee noted discrepancies between the estimates contained in Budget Paper No. 6, Portfolio Program Statements and the Department of Aboriginal Affairs' Explanatory Notes. Discrepancies of a similar nature with other departments were referred to by Estimates Committee A in their October 1985 Report. The Committee was subsequently provided with a Statement of Reconciliation between 1986-87 Budget Paper No. 6 and Department of Aboriginal Affairs Explanatory Notes, together with a covering explanation by the Department of Finance (These documents are contained in the Committee's Additional Information).

The Committee accepts that there will be transitional difficulties associated with the "change over" to program budgeting and notes that the Department of Finance, in consultation with departments, is currently addressing the issue to see what measures can be taken to prevent the recurrence of such discrepancies between documents.

The Committee also supports the comments by Estimates

Committee A on the need for Parliament to re-examine the way

it appropriates funds, due to the incompatibility of the

program budgeting format with the current presentation of

estimates in the Appropriation Bills.

The Committee understands the difficulties confronted by

departments in settling program formats as they move towards

program budgeting. The Committee notes by way of example the

1 6 8 .

development in Sub-program definition for the Aboriginal Development Commission from that outlined in the Department's Explanatory Notes and that contained in the Portfolio Program Statements (which was subsequently tabled as an amended page

to the Explanatory Notes during the Committee1s hearings). The Committee hopes that there will be continual evaluation of program and sub-program objectives, which could result in further tightening of program definitions.

Future Parliamentary scrutiny under program budgeting will revolve around the evaluation of program performance by comparing achievement against performance indicators over a number of years. In this respect, the Committee was pleased to

note the Department's commitment as the second stage of its program budgeting process will be to compile and present to the Parliament more comprehensive and helpful performance indicators. "

Scheduling of Estimates Committees

The Committee wishes to reiterate its concerns expressed in October 1985 relating to the scheduling of Estimates Committees to allow maximum time for public hearings with minimum inconvenience to the Minister, the Committee and the

departmental witnesses.

A number of factors have combined to frustrate the smooth operation of the Committee during the hearings for these estimates. These factors include:

(i) Timetabling - Each Estimates Committee is furnished with a Schedule of Sitting Times which provides, around sitting days of the Senate, for two days and a third if required to consider the estimates. Any additional time has

to be arranged by the Committee and often involves planning hearings around arrangements

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previously made by Ministers and Senators. An examination of the total hours of sitting for Estimates Committees in recent years indicates that the hours provided are totally inadequate

(see attachment).

(ii) Method of Questioning - The Committee acknowledges that one of its roles is to provide an opportunity for gathering information. Estimates Committee B has referred to this role in its Report in October 1985. In this respect it is considered important that the line of questioning is structured and the facility of putting questions in advance to Departments is utilized to ensure the most effective use of the time available at the hearings. The value of advance notification of questions is only fulfilled if the answers are available for follow-up questioning during that departments hearings.

(iii) Ministerial availability - The inability of any Minister to attend the hearings on a particular day resulted in the late cancellation of that meeting. The Committee subsequently faced difficulties in arranging additional times for hearings which significantly affected the ordered attendance of some departments. Whilst the attendance of a Minister is not necessary during a department's appearance before an Estimates Committee, the Committee notes the difficulties such an absence creates for officers responding to questions which may raise policy issues. The difficulities which arise from the lack of Ministerial attendance at Committee hearings have been referred to by Estimates Committees E and F in their October

1985 Reports.

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The Committee is of the opinion that the valuable functions performed by Estimates Committees are being weakened by these scheduling difficulties. The Committee therefore recommends that the following points be given the strongest consideration to enable Estimates Committees to operate in the most efficient manner.

First, an additional sitting day should be scheduled in the program furnished to Committees. The day set aside "if required" should be specifically scheduled, particularly given the restriction of Standing Order 3 6AB(13) which provides that only three Committees shall sit simultaneously. A fourth day

should be set aside "if required" for Budget Estimates. The hours of Budget sittings in recent years indicate that this extra day would be utilized by most Committees.

This suggested expansion of the Schedule of Sitting Times which is decided well in advance of the intended hearing dates would enable Senators, and Ministers, to ensure that they do not arrange conflicting engagements thereby making a commitment to the predetermined timetable.

Secondly, the procedures to be adopted by Committees in their consideration of Departments needs strengthening. Whilst the Committee has facilitated the appearance of certain interstate witnesses by specifying a particular time for their

attendance, the Committee believes that such a procedure could be extended for all departments and authorities and enhanced by providing a concluding time.

The establishment of such internal timetabling would have the advantage of providing certainty of appearance times for Departmental witnesses and also focus the attention of Senators in structuring their questions within a set time

frame.

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The Committee believes that the introduction of program budgeting will also necessitate a reconsideration of the procedures adopted by Committees in their examination of estimates, particularly in regard to the likely shift towards more direct questioning of program objectives and program

achievements.

CONCLUSION

The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Minister for Education (Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan), the Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce (Senator the Hon. John Button), the Minister for Community Services (Senator the Hon. Don Grimes) and the officers of the various departments and authorities who appeared before the Committee.

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

October 1986

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173.

TOTAL HOURS OF SITTING FOR ESTIMATES COMMITTEES*

BUDGET SITTINGS

Committee 1982 1983 1984

A 9 hrs 29 mins 12 hrs 24 mins 15 hrs 32 mins

B 19 hrs 17 mins 14 hrs 43 mins 14 hrs 6 mins

C 18 hrs 40 mins 10 hrs 16 mins 13 hrs 47 mins

D 11 hrs 50 mins 23 hrs 12 mins 31 hrs 59 mins

E 8 hrs 34 mins 23 hrs 37 mins 20 hrs 17 mins

F 8 hrs 37 mins 11 hrs 2 mins 9 hrs 2 mins

G 14 hrs 5 mins

H 7 hrs 2 mins

mins

* Times exclude suspensions of sittings for meal breaks, etc.

1985

17 hrs 31 mins

10 hrs 35 mins

12 hrs 3 mins

18 hrs 5 mins

21 hrs 6 mins

10 hrs 15 mins

89 hrs 35 mins

> ►J

o

iS

Senate Table Office 14 October 1986

i3WH;

Senate 14 Table Office October 1986

175.

TOTAL HODRS OF SITTING FOR ESTIMATES COMMITTEES

AUTUMN SITTINGS

Committee

A 8 hrs

B 8 hrs

C 6 hrs

D 5 hrs

E 3 hrs

F 5 hrs

G 5 hrs

H 2 hrs

4 6 hrs

* Times exclude

82 1983

9 mins 2 hrs 21

51 mins 5 hrs 38

35 mins 2 hrs 43

36 mins 5 hrs 2

37 mins 5 hrs 15

22 mins 3 hrs 51

28 mins

53 mins

31 mins 24 hrs 50

suspensions of sittings

1984

mins 6 hrs 8

mins 5 hrs 49

mins 6 hrs 20

mins 12 hrs 11

mins 8 hrs 37

mins 4 hrs 37

mins 43 hrs 42

for meal breaks, etc.

1985

mins 2 hrs 55 mins

mins 7 hrs 14 mins

mins 5 hrs 58 mins

mins 9 hrs 59 mins

mins 6 hrs 36 mins

mins 3 hrs 35 mins

mins 36 hrs 17 mins

Senate Table Office 14 October 1986

TOTAL HOURS OF SITTING FOR ESTIMATES COMMITTEES

AUTUMN SITTINGS

Committee A

B

C D

E

F

1986

12 hrs 51 mins

5 hrs 28 mins

7 hrs 15 mins

13 hrs 18 mins

10 hrs 15 mins

10 hrs 41 mins

59 hrs 48 mins

* Times exclude suspensions of sittings for meal breaks, etc.

Senate 14 Table Office October 1986

DOCUMENTS TABLED DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS

OR

PROVIDED AS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

TO THE COMMITTEE

DOCUMENTS TABLED DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS OR PROVIDED AS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO THE COMMITTEE

The following is a list of documents tabled during the public hearings or provided to the Committee as additional information. The documents have been included as an attachment to the tabled copy of the Committee's Report to the Senate.

Department of Education

States Grants (Schools Assistance) Act 1983 - Report on financial assistance granted to each State in respect of 1984 National Advisory and Co-ordinating Committee on Multicultural Education -

Discussion Paper No. 1 - Education and Ethnic Minorities - Issues of Participation and Equity Discussion Paper No. 2 - Slogans, Policies and Practice in Multicultural Education in Australia Discussion Paper No. 3 - Immigrant Australians, Education

and the Transition to Work Review of Facilities for Information Exchange in Multicultural Education Flexible Working Hours Scheme - Guidelines Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment

Australia Council - Grants approved by all Boards in the Multicultural area during 1983-84, 1984-85 and 1985-86. Music Activity and Development in the Art and Working Life Programme - A Report prepared for the Music Board of the Australia Council by Gillian Harrison.

Australian National Gallery - New acquisitions - Media Release dated October 1986, together with description of all new acquisitions. National Rainforest conservation Program - New South Wales - Joint Statement by the Commonwealth Minister for Arts, Heritage and Environment and the New South Wales Minister for

Planning and Environment. Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism

Flexible Working Hours Scheme - Guidelines - Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism Australian Sports Commission Aboriginal Development Commission

Flexible Working Hours Scheme - Guidelines

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TH E S E N A T E

Thursday, 18 September 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

Minutes of Proceedings

N O 19

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.01pm in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. RESOLUTIONS: The Chairperson reported Resolutions of the Senate dated 21 and 22 August 1986 relating to

changes in membership of Estimates Committees and the reference of Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1986-87 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1985-86.

3. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to proceed with the examination of Departmental

Estimates in the following order ;

Educ ation Housing and Construction Arts, Heritage and Environment (with interstate witnesses scheduled for Tuesday, 23 September

at 3.30pm) Aboriginal Affairs Sport, Recreation and Tourism

4. STATEMENT BY CHAIRPERSON: The Chairperson made a statement relating to the examination of the Estimates uy the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION:: In attendance, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for

Education, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Education Mr A.G. Abrahart, Senior Adviser Mrs F.M. Barr, Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary Liaison and Public Pel arions Branch

Ms D. Mildern, First Assistant Secretary, Schools General Programs Division Mr N. Van Neel den, Assistant Sec r e * ary, General Recurrent Grants Branch

Ms M. Haynes, Acting Assistant See re - ary, Capital Grants Branch

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Mr J . Casey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr P. Hickey, First Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Education, Training and General Division Mr J. Redrup, Acting Assistant Secretary,

Tertiary Education Resource Planning Branch Mr B. Milligan, First Assistant Secretary, General Student Assistance Division Mr N. Neal, Acting Director,

Secondary, Special Programs, Budget and Statistics Section Mr J. Wilson, First Assistant Secretary, Schools Policy and Resource Division Mr K. Clarke, Assistant Secretary,

Schools Resource Planning Branch Ms J. Armitage, Acting Assistant Secretary, Participation and Equity Branch Mr R.N. Allen, Director,

Australian Capital Territory Office of Technical and Further Education Mr P. Bowler, First Assistant Secretary, Education Programs and Research Division Mr E. West, Chairman,

National Aboriginal Education Committee Mr D. Buckingham, Director, International Education Miss J.L. Miller, Assistant Secretary,

International Education Branch Miss J. Ledgar, Deputy Director, Program Administration Branch, Overseas Student Office Mr E. Meadows, Acting Deputy Director,

Policy and Liaison Branch, Overseas Student Office Mr R.T. Kinnaird, Executive Director (Interim), Asian Studies Council Dr A. Taloni, First Assistant Secretary,

Management Division Mr W. Bowron, Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Services Branch Mr R.G.Harvey, Assistant Secretary,

Planning and Budgeting Branch

Australian National University Professor A.D. Barton, Treasurer Mr A.R. Bunsell, Acting Head, Accounting and Finance Division Mr J.A. Brayshaw, Budget Officer

Canberra College of Advanced Education Mr G. McL. Eadie, Registrar-Secretary Mr W.C. Dwyer, Bursar

Australian Maritime College Mr D. Crockett, Financial Controller

184.

Commonwealth Schools Commission Mr R.P. McNamara, First Assistant Commissioner, Policy Coordination and Services Division Dr J. MeMorrow, First Assistant Commissioner,

Equity, Language and Culture Division Dr B. Corish, First Assistant Commissioner, Curriculum and School Development Division Dr A. Fordham, Chief Executive Officer,

New Schools Section Ms H. Allnutt, Assistant Commissioner, Language and Culture Branch Mr B.K. Thomas, Chief Executive Officer,

Administration and Finance Branch Mr M.J. Howard, Director, Finance Section

Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission Mr T.J. Mullarvey, Acting Senior Assistant, Commissioner, Finance Statistics and Corporate Services Branch Mr R.H. Grahame, Assistant Commissioner,

Executive and Ministerial Branch

Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, -Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr J. Anderson, Senior Finance Officer,

Education and Employment Division Mr J . Buckley, Chief Finance Officer, Education and Employment Division Ms B . Mat i " j evi c , Chief Finance Officer,

Education and Employment Division

The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 270-284 (Document A) Divisions 848-855 ( D o c u m e n t B ) Divisions 270-284 (Document D )

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Education, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND

CONSTRUCTION: In attendance, S'-na-or · r.c Hon . Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, arcompanied by the following officers:

Department of Housing and Construction Mr K.J. Rodda, QBE, ED, Dcpu-y Score-ary Mr J . Mellors, F ; rs> Ass: star.· Secre· ary. Management

185 .

Mr B.J. Wight, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Policy Division Mr S.J. Palywoda, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and Human Resource Budgets Mr A.E. Norman, Acting Assistant Secretary,

Works Programming and Budgets Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Ms K. Flanagan, Chief Finance Officer,

Social Security Division Mr G. Windbank, Senior Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division The Minister made an introductory statement. The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 352 and 353 (Document A)

The Committee suspended its hearing of the Department of Housing and Construction. 7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.34pm.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senators Cooney, Morris, Newman, Puplick, Reynolds and Teague. Senators Brownhill, Devlin, Robertson and Vigor also attended.

CONFIRMED:

■ i l i f t f ' 1 Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

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TH E S E N A T E

Tuesday, 23 September 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

M i n u t e s of P r o c e e d i n g s

No. 20

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 3.33pm in Senate Committee Room No. 6. In the absence of the Chairperson,

Senator Morris took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT: In attendance, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the

following officers:

Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment Mr A. Kerr, Deputy Secretary Mr M. Bourke, First Assistant Secretary- Corporate and Portfolio Support Division Mr B . Zanetti, Assistant Secretary

Portfolio Support Branch Ms C. Santamaria, First Assistant Secretary Arts, Film and Heritage Division Mr K. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary

Conservation Environment and Assessment Division Dr R . Boden, Director Australian National Botanic Gardens

National Film and Sound Archive Mr G . Gilmour, Director

Australian Archives Mr B . Cox, Director-General Mr S. Skrazwpek, Director Resource Management

Australian National Maritime Museum Mr S . Sergi, Interim Director Ms D. Taylor, Manager Resources

Australia Council Professor D. Yerbury, Genera". Manage r Mr J . Kitney, Director Management Services Mr R . Adams, Director

Arts Co-ordination

Australian Opera Mr A. Clark, Commun i can i or.s Acc . n . =" r a* or

187 .

Australian Film, Television and Radio School Ms A. Deveson, Director Mr T. Baxter, Head Management Services Australian Film Commission

Mr K. Williams, Chief Executive Mr B. Gittings, General Manager Corporate Services Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority

Mr G. Kelleher, Chairman National Library of Australia Mr W. Horton, Director-General Mr P. Hawker, Assistant Director-General Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service

Professor D. Ovington, Director Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer Management Services Branch Australian National Gallery

Mr J. Mollison, Director Mr G. Andrews, Administrator Mr M. Claasz, Financial Manager National Museum of Australia

Dr D. McMichael, Director Mr B. Palmer, Assistant-Director Resources Management Australian Heritage Commission

Mr C. Griffiths, Director Office of the Supervising Scientist Mr R. Fry, Supervising Scientist Mr J. Short, Accountant Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Ms D. Martin, Senior Research Officer Education and Employment Division Mr G. Kazs, Chief Finance Officer

Education and Employment Division

The Acting Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 136, 133, 140-143, 149, 130 (Document A) Sub-Divisions 811-2, 3, 5, 812-4, 5 and Division 814 (Document B )

The Department tabled answers to questions on notice by Senators Michael Baume, Puplick and Withers.

188.

The Australia Council tabled the following documents: Grants by Music Board and Aboriginal Arts Board. Principles concerning arms length and Ministerial Directions adopted by the

Australia Council Australia Council Festival Funding Policy Literature Board Strategy The Australian Opera tabled a table of Permanent

Employee Numbers - 30 August 1986 The Committee having concluded its consideration of Division 130 (Document A) suspended its hearing of the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment. 3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.05pm.

4. ATTENDANCE: Senators Morris, Newman, Puplick and Teague. Apologies were received from Senators Cooney and Reynolds. Senators Michael Baume, Brownhi11 and Vigor also attended.

CONFIRMED:/‘' /

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

189.

TH E S E N A T E

Monday, 29 September 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

M i n u t e s of P r o c e e d i n g s

No. 21

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.06am in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Reynolds took the Chair. 2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR

FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND

CONSTRUCTION: In attendance, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education accompanied by the following officers: Department of Housing and Construction

Mr K.J. Rodda, OBE, ED., Deputy Secretary Mr J. Mellors, First Assistant Secretary Management Mr B.J. Wight, First Assistant Secretary

Housing Policy Division Mr S.J. Palywoda, Acting Assistant Secretary Finance and Human Resource Budgets Mr A.E. Norman, Acting Assistant Secretary

Works Programming and Budgets Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Ms K. Flanagan , Chief Finance Officer

Social Security Division Mr G. Windbank, Senior Finance Officer Defence and Government Division The Committee resumed consideration of Division 353

(Document A). The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 354-356, 245-248 (Document A)

Divisions 896-899 (Document B) Divisions 352, 896-897 (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Housing

and Construction subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

190.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF SPORT, RECREATION AND TOURISM: In attendance, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan,

Minister for Education accompanied by the following officers: Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism Mr J. Lleonart, First Assistant Secretary

Information Services Division Mr G. Dempster, First Assistant Secretary Sport and Recreation Mr K. Nielson, Assistant Secretary

Facilities and Projects Mr Hargreaves, Director Planning Australian Government Publishing Service Mr D. Drew, Acting Government Printer

Australian Government Publishing Service Mr J. Malone, Acting General Manager Promotion Australia Mr K. Fairbrother, Assistant Secretary

Secretariat and Co-ordination Branch Mr A. Barden, Director Resource Management Branch Ms D. West, Acting Estimates Officer -

Resource Management Branch Australian Sports Commission Mr P. Crosswhite, Secretary Sports Aid Foundation

Mr M. Weeks , Director Management and Planning Section Mr G. Hartung, General Manager Australian Tourist Commission

Mr J. Rowe, Managing Director Mr J. Brace, Director Program Planning and Evaluation Australian Institute of Sport

Mr P. Brettell, General Manager Mr B. Hobson, Assistant General Manager Administration Mr J. Barker, Financial Administrator Department of Finance

Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr G. Kazs, Chief Finance Officer Education and Employment Division The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 590-593 (Document A) Divisions 956-958 (Document B) Divisions 590, 958 (Document D)

191 .

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.25pm.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Newman, PUplick and Reynolds. Apologies were received from Senators Cooney, Morris and Teague.

CONFIRMED:

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

T H E S E N A T E

Tuesday, 7 October 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

M i n u t e s of P r o c e e d i n g s

No. 22

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.35am in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Reynolds took the Chair. 2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR

FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT: In attendance, Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment Mr A. Kerr, Deputy Secretary Dr A. McCusker, Assistant Secretary Conservation Branch

Mr B. Zanetti, Assistant Secretary Portfolio Support Branch M r G. Early, Director

National Film and Sound Archive Mr G. Gilmour, Director Australian Archives Mr B. Cox, Director-General

Mr S. Skrzwpek, Director Resource Management National Library of Australia Mr W. Horton, Director-General

Mr P. Hawker, Assistant Director-General Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service Professor D. Ovington, Director Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer

Management Services Branch Australian National Gallery Mr J. Mollison, Director Mr M. Claasz, Financial Manager National Museum of Australia

Dr D. McMichael, Director Mr B. Palmer, Assistant Director Resources Management

193.

Australian Heritage Commission Mr C. Griffiths, Director Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Ms D. Martin, Senior Research Officer Education and Employment Division The Committee resumed consideration of the estimates of the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment. The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 131, 132, 144 and 145 (Document A) The Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service tabled a list of permits and authorities issued under the Wildlife Protection (Regulation of

Exports and Imports) Act. Senator Puplick tabled a list of questions he had provided to the Director, Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service. The Committee suspended its hearing of the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment. 3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30am.

4. ATTENDANCE: Senators Newman, Puplick, Reynolds and Teague. Apologies were received from Senators Cooney and Morris. Senator Michael Baume also attended.

CONFIRMED:

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

194.

TH E S E N A T E

Tuesday, 14 October 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

M i n u t e s of P r o c e e d i n g s

No. 23

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.35am in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Reynolds took the Chair. 2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR

FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT: The following officers were in

attendance:

Arts, Heritage and Environment Mr A. Kerr, Deputy Secretary Dr A. McCusker, Assistant Secretary Conservation Branch Mr E. Anderson, Assistant Secretary

Environment Assessment Branch Mr B. Zanetti, Assistant Secretary Portfolio Support Branch Mr R. McArthur, Assistant Secretary

Heritage Branch Mr G. Early, Director Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service Professor D. Ovington, Director

Mr J. Crennan , Principal Executive Officer Management Services Branch Australian National Gallery Mr J. Mollison, Director

M r G. Andrews, Administrator Mr M. Claasz, Financial Manager National Museum of Australia Dr D. McMichael, Director

Mr B. Palmer, Assistant Director Resources Management

Australian Heritage Commission Mr C. Griffiths, Director Department of Finance Mr T. W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer,

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Ms D. Martin, Senior Research Officer Education and Employment Division

195.

The Committee resumed consideration of Division 145 (Document A) The Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service tabled a list of projects to be conducted under the States Co-operative Assistance Program 1986-87. The Chairperson called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 146, 147 and 148 (Document A) Divisions 811 and 812 (uncompleted Sub­ Divisions) and 813 (Document B) Division 131 (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Arts, Heritage and Environment, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee. 3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1986-87 AND

EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1985-86 - DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS: The following officers were in attendance: Department of Aboriginal Affairs Mr G. Brownbill, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr D. O'Rourke, First Assistant Secretary

Program Development Mr T. Koukoulas, First Assistant Secretary Management Mr G. Menham, Acting First Assistant Secretary

Communications and Special Services Mr G. Jones, Assistant Secretary Heritage Policy Development and Co-ordination Mr K. Martin, Assistant Secretary

Budget Mr D. Rose, Assistant Secretary Education, Employment and Training Mr A. Nicolson, Acting Assistant Secretary

Management Operations Mr G. Bissaker, Director Budget Co-ordination Mr G. Cornish, Senior Assistant Director Mr D. Frampton, Acting Director

Policy Co-ordination Mr B. Miller, Assistant Secretary Community Development and Social Support- Ms D. Allen, Acting Regional Director

South Australia

196.

Aboriginal Development Commission Mr R . Winroe, General Manager Mr P. McMahon, Assistant General Manager Administration Mr M. O'Brien, Acting Assistant General Manager

Commercial Development Mr M. Pope, Acting Assistant General Manager Housing Division Mr B. O'Keefe, Acting Manager

Finance Branch Mr B. Powell, Budgets Officer

Aboriginal Hostels Limited Mr N. Perkins, General Manager Mr B. Clarke, Company Secretary and Assistant General Manager

Administration and Finance Mr J . Ramsay, Assistant General Manager Operations

Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies Mr W. Dix, Principal Mr T. Varga, Finance Officer Dr K. Palmer, Research Director

Department of Finance Mr T.W. Wall, Chief Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr Q. Perks, Senior Finance Officer

Social Security Division Mr M. Bowen, Senior Finance Officer Social Security Division

The Chairperson called on the following programs for consideration:

Heritage and Culture Economic and Community Development Social and Legal Services Housing, Municipal and Essential Services

Corporate Services Aboriginal Development Commission

(The expenditures proposed for these programs are included in Divisions 120-125 and 804, 805, as contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents.)

The Department tabled an amended page 17 to the Explanatory Notes.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of

Aboriginal Affairs, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

197 .

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.10am.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Cooney, Morris, Newman, Puplick, Reynolds and Teague.

CONFIRMED:

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

TH E S E N A T E

Thursday, 16 October 1986

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E D

M i n u t e s of P r o c e e d i n g s

No. 24

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 9.02am in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Reynolds took the Chair. 2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Meetings held on

18, 23 and 29 September and 7 and 14 October (Nos 19 to 23) were confirmed. 3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairperson's draft Report to the Senate.

The Committee resolved that the draft Report be agreed to, subject to the inclusion of a number of amendments. '

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.48am.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Morris, Newman, Reynolds and Teague. Apologies were received from Senators Co o n e y and Puplick.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

’ ΛΊ

Margaret Reynolds Chairperson

199.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED

IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

Issues referred to in the September 1986 Estimates Hearings (page references Hansard, Estimates Committee D, Thursday, 18 September 1986).

Page

Questions on Notice by Senator Michael Baume

- Invalidity retirements 153

- Employment of casuals and contractors 153

- Cost of special stationery 153-154

- Grants to ethnic community groups 155

Questions on Notice by Senator Withers

- Funds for official hospitality and entertainment 154

Questions on Notice by Senator Puplick

- Levels of overtime expected and worked - Levels of absenteeism - Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) claims - Maternity leave arrangements - Higher duties - Temporary staff - Workers' Compensation cases - Use of flextime

Administrative

- Administration charge - Consultation with higher education institutions - General salaries index - Additional enrolments - Reduction in part-time and/or single

student numbers

- Cost of 17.5 per cent leave loading - Maternity leave cost - Paid inoperatives - Future liability to payments - Auditor-General's report

- concerns re Aboriginal student assistance schemes 161

- Concerns re departmental services 161

- English as a Second Language (ESL) 161-165

- Multicultural and computer education 164-165

155- 156

156 156

156- 157 157 157 157 157- 158

158-159 159 160

160-161 160 160 160 160

2 0 2 .

Administrative (continued)

Page

- Overseas Student Office - Mr David Buckingham - Mr Charles Belts - and the Universities and Colleges

Admissions Committee (UCAC) - Bole - Travel expenditure - Delays in handling applications - Foreign students

- Policy on non-payment of fees - Course discontinuations - Flextime and overtime - Absenteeism - RSI

- Filling of vacant positions - Fringe benefits tax - Flextime - Higher Duties Allowance - Ministerial Council meetings

- Professional development of teachers - Proposed universities - Darwin "

- Western Australian State - Western suburbs of Sydney - Gold Coast

- Yanchep

- Planned Public Service staff reductions - Increased student numbers - Young homeless allowance scheme - Other salaries expenses

- Additional international travel requirements - Publication and Information services - 'Education News’ - 'PEP Newsletter'

- facimile services - Tasmanian 008 telephone facility - Students' tax certificates - Information campaign - Computer services

- Consultants, part-time members of committees and boards - Commonwealth Institutions Accreditation Committee for Advanced Education

- delays in course accreditation at Canberra CAE - Consultants - Marcus Oldham College - National Advisory and Co-ordinating Committee

on Multicultural Education - Compensation and Legal Expenses - RSI

166- 167 167 167 167- 168

182 168 169

169-170

170-171, 173 171 171- 172 172- 174 174- 175

175- 176 176 176- 177 177

177 178 1781 7 Q

179- 180 180 180 180- 181

181

181-182 183- 184 183 184

184

184- 185 185 185

186- 187 187 187- 188 188- 189

189

2 0 3 .

Administrative (continued)

Page

- Australian-Greek awards - Language teaching materials - Student Assistance Programs

189- 190 190- 191

- numbers of Masters' and PhD students - numbers of humanities/sciences students - Post-graduate students - Basic nursing - Study of students with grants paid direct - Aboriginal Secondary Assistance Scheme

191

191- 192 192 192 192- 193

- Secondary allowances to Aborigines - Isolated children 193-194 - Benefits

- Boarding facilities - Loan video scheme - Country Areas Program - Aboriginal overseas study grants - Adult secondary allowances - ESL allowances - Age-related student allowances - United World Colleges - Australian Music Examinations Board (AMEB)

Educational Services - Australian Capital Territory

194- 195 195- 196

196 196 197 197

197- 198 198 198- 199 199

- Australian and American Education Foundation - Grants to organisations 199-200 - National Council of Independent Schools - Technical and Further Education (TAFE)

200

- Canberra TAPE: sub .iudice matter 200-201, 205-207 - Reduction in overtime 201

- Payments to NSW State Government - Recurrent Grants to Non-Government Schools

Canberra College of Advanced Education

201-202 202-203

- Higher Duties Allowance - Fringe benefits tax item - Effects of reduction in funding - Administration charge - Special Assistance for Students Program

203 203

203-204 204

- Student residences

Australian National University

204-205

- Fringe benefits tax 205-206

- Higher Duties Allowance 206

204.

Page

Australian Maritime College

- Fringe benefits tax 207

- Higher Duties Allowance 207

- Professional Experience Program 207

- Books and publications 207

- External servicing 207-208

Commonwealth Schools Commission

- Questions on Notice by Senator Vigor 208

- Discontinuation of certain programs 208

- Transfer of functions to Department of Education 208 - Fringe benefits tax 208

- Higher Duties Allowance 208

- Education Centre Program 208-210

- Per capita grants - Redistribution of schools according to assessed needs 210-211

- Appeals 211

- Accountability arrangements - Funding withheld due to some schools not subscribing to ' 211-212

- Australian Education Council - Working party on registration of schools 212 - Language education 212

- Curriculum Development Council - Implementation of recommendations 212

- Development of national science guidelines 212-213 - Programs in the ACT - Professional development 213

- Disadvantaged schools program 213

Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission

- Answers to Questions on Notice - Retirements 214

- Employment of casuals 214

- Sick leave 214

- Cost of special stationery 214

- Funding for hospitality and entertainment 214 - Fringe benefits and HDA 214

- Distribution of funds by CTEC - Method of determining 214-215

- Submission by Wollongong University 216

- Language teaching 216

- Potplant numbers 216

205 .

Page

Capital Works and Services

- Non-Government schools - Funding 216-217

- ’New schools policy' 217

Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory

- Loan video program 217-218

- National language policy - Terms of reference of ministerial consultancy 218

Other Services

- Asian Studies Council 218

Questions on Notice by Senator Vigor 219 2

2 0Γ, .

DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, HERITAGE AND ENVIRONMENT

Issues referred to in the September and October 1986

Estimates Hearings (page references Hansard, Estimates Committee D, Tuesday, 23 September 1986, Tuesday, 7 October 1986 and Tuesday, 14 October 1986).

Page

Australia Council

McLeay Report comments - failure of Council to adapt - equity of funding - recommendation for triennial funding - council's role in promoting artists' welfare

- accountability to government - responsibility for arts and cultural policy - devolution of funding decisions 603-

Announcement of forthcoming grants References to 'seven lean years of the Fraser Government' Support for festivals in Adelaide and Perth but

not Sydney - requirements for 'meaningful Aboriginal involvement' Literature Board

- funding for literary grants - bringing overseas publishers to Australia Design Arts Board: assistance to design arts Ownership of Keesing Studio, Paris Grants

- Palestine Information Office - Federation of Italian labourers. Emigrants and Families Art and Working Life Program

- report by Ms Deborah Mills 609­

- purpose of the program - Trade Unions: matching contributions - monitoring of results - grant to graphic artist-in-residenee, Federated

Ironworkers' Association - slide kit - 'Art and Working Life News' - funding of union campaigns Allocations to Boards Funding to Theatre ACT

International Year of Peace funding Music Board Theatre Board - projected cut in expenditure Trade Union representation on Council and Boards

598- 599 599- 601 601-602 602 602-603

603

604,612 604

604- 605

605- 606

606

606- 607

607

606- 607

607

607- 608

608- 609

■610,614 609- 610

610 611

611-612 612 612

613-614 610- 611

611 611 614

615 615

207 .

- Literature Board funding of magazines - 'Outrider1, 1Quandrant1, 'Australian Book Review' 615 - criteria for deciding level of grants 615-616

- circulation of subsidised magazines 616

- contributions to editors' salaries 616

- percentage of total costs of subsidy 616

- Corporate Services 616-617

- Fringe Benefits Tax 617

- Average Staffing Level (ASL) reductions: effects 617-618,619 - Effects of reductions in travel funding - touring access program 618-619

- Multicultural Committee 619

- Higher duties allowance 619

- Time to fill vacant positions 619-620

- Pot plants 620

- Ratio of administrative costs to actual arts funding 620 - Crafts Board - funding of Craft Training Program 620

- Arts Council: diminishing funding 620

- Australian Opera - total administration budget 620-621

- industrial relations 621

- outreach, touring 621

- internal funding arrangements 622

- revenue from sale of videotapes 622

- role of Mr Donald McDonald 622

- bicentennial projects 622

- fringe benefits tax 622-623

- Young Artists Program 623

Australian National Maritime Museum

- Acquisition of Pine Islet lighthouse 623-624,625-626,1119 - Levels of absenteeism 624

- Darling Harbour site development 624-625

- visit of U.S. Senator Lugar 624

- Replica of the 'Endeavour': possible construction 625 - Increase in ASL 625

- Fringe Benefits Tax 625

- Relationship with State Maritime collections 625

- Publicity and Education activities 626

- Consultants 626

- Printers 626

- Capital Works and Services - purchase of aduio-visual equipment 626

Australian Film, Television and Radio School

- Impact of successful graduates 626-627

- ABC or SBS recognition 627

- Development of site and facilities of the school 627

- Co-operative involvement with Swinburne Institute of Technology 627

- Graduates' employment prospects 627

- Student allowances 627-628

208

- Training of Women and Aboriginals 628

- relationship with Impaja 628

- Commissioned project with SBS 628

- Total student numbers 629

- New Directions policy - cuts in travel and representation 629

- Fringe Benefits Tax 629

- Time taken to fill vacancies 629

- Australian Film Institute awards - 1 The Cellist1 630

- Successes 630

- Short courses: fees paid - individuals v. business organisations 630

- support from commercial television stations 630

- Moving from concentration on drama 630-631

- Connections with Metro Television 631

Australian Film Commission

- Net value of film tax concession - differential between draft White Paper and Coopers and Lybrand estimates 631

- OECD survey _ 632

- Study of the film industry by the Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce 632

- Commercial release of films - 1 Death of a Soldier1 633

- 'Crocodile Dundee1 633-634

- expenditure on promotion overseas 634

- Repetitive Strain Injury claims 634

- Laundry allowance 634-635

- Fringe Benefits Tax 635

- record-keeping by staff 635-636

- Special Production Fund 636

- Scripts funding - numbers of recipients 636

- Annual Report 636-637

- Expenditure on film festivals in market places 637

- Bicentennial projects - arrangements with Bicentennial Authority 637

Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority

- Impacts of funding changes on research - Marine Science and Technology Scheme 638

- Australian Research Grants Scheme 638

- Great Barrier Reef Wonderland and Aquarium: plans 638-639,640 - Crown of Thorns problem: research 639-640

- Fringe Benefits 640

- time to complete calculations 640

209.

The Supervising Scientist and the Alligator Rivers Region Research Institute

- Fall in staffing levels: effects on projects 640-641

- Fringe Benefits 641

- Staff numbers 641

- Travel to and from the Northern Territory 641-642

- Devaluation of the Australian dollar - effect on acquisition of journals 642

Administrative

- Chemicals being imported - McLeay report - steps to address recommendations - departmental submission

- Fringe Benefits Tax - Higher Duties Allowance - Time to fill vacant positions - Increase in ASL - Higher Duties Allowances - Reallocation of Departmental funds: effects

- Unleaded petrol program - Movable Cultural Heritage Program - Staff development - Shift penalty and overtime payments - Flextime in the Australian National Botanic Gardens - Environment: clearing of tropical forests - Semi-official telephones - Administrative expenses

- publication, education and information programs - Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Act - proclamation - computer equipment expenditure - Other Services

- Artbank acquisition expenditure - reduction in Australian Biological Resources Study expenditure - Public Lending Right Scheme

- Chairman's travelling allowance - Increase in titles eligible for payment - National Institute of Dramatic Art: unrest - 1 The Return of Captain Invincible 1 - Australian Council of National Trusts

- fringe benefits tax liability - Grants and Contributions - Royal Australasian Ornithologists Union - Conservation groups funded

- Contribution to UNESCO - Australian Children's Television Foundation - Southern Cross Museum Trust

642

642- 643 643 643 643 643 643 643

643- 644 644 644 644 644 644- 645

645

645

645- 646 646 647

647

647- 648 648- 649

649 649 649

649- 650

650

650 650

650- 651 651 651

2 1 0 .

National Film and Sound Archive

- Projected expenditure on Sydney regional office 1114 - Cataloguing of film search material 1114

- First Australian talking movie: 'Showgirl's Luck' 1114 - Shelving at Mitchell repository 1114

- Higher Duties Allowance 1115

- Time to fill vacant positions 1115

- Travelling exhibitions 1115

Australian Archives

- Townsville sub-regional office 1116

- Use of material by the Royal Commission into British Nuclear Tests in Australia: cost 1116-1117

- Reasons for decrease in revenue 1117

- Reasons for growth in overtime payments 1117

- Computer services - deferral of major maintenance costs 1117

- Request by Mr Throssell for access to exempt material 1117-1119

- Menzies inquiry 1119

National Library of Australia

- Repetitive Strain Injuries: reasons for decrease 1119-1120 - Film collection and lending to public 1120-1121

- Devaluation: costs of Library 1121-1122

- Computerised access to regular acquisitions by major Australian libraries 1122

- Identification of acquisitions made by Commonwealth authorities 1122

- Miscellaneous receipts 1123

- Resource management review 1123

- Services for the handicapped 1123-1124

- Purchase of newspapers 1124-1125

Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service

- Freedom of Information requests for access to material about koalas and kangaroos - intervention by Administrative Appeals Tribunal - Sharmon committee report - Numbers of export permits - Kakadu National Park

- World Heritage listings - Goodparla and Gimbat leases - Aboriginal land right claims - Mineral resources - Fringe Benefits Tax

- legal opinion from Attorney-General 1s Department 1154

- operations of Peko-Wallsend 1154

1125- 1126 1126 1126

1126-1129,1154 1126- 1128 1128-1129 1128 1128-1129

1129

2 1 1 .

- Uluru - Co-operative Assistance program

Australian National Gallery

- Review of insurance arrangements - Acquisitions - Encouragement of non-government funding - Exhibitions - Refurbishment of Gallery shop and foyer - Cataloguing of library

National Museum of Australia

- Funding review - absence of funds for acquisition: effects - Centralisation of activities - CEP involvement - Cataloguing - Design of facilities - Proposals for new museums

Australian Heritage Commission

- Review of the Commonwealth's role in conservation of the National Estate - Fringe Benefits Tax - Lemon Thyme State Forest - Port Arthur historic area - Information, publicity, education and library area - Distribution of artisan's films - 'Highfield': property in N.W. Tasmania - Community Employment Program

Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory

- Distribution of funds - States Grants (Nature Conservation) Act 1974 - Victorian participation - South-West Tasmania World Heritage Area

Other Services

- Festival of Pacific Arts - Rainforest conservation - study of tourism potential - National Community Education

- campaign on unleaded petrol - Non-statutory bodes

1154 1154

1154-1155 1155 1155 1156 1157 1157

1157- 1158 1158

1158- 1159 1159 1159 1159

1160

1160-1161 1161

1161-1162 1162-1163 1163 1163

1163

1163- 1164

1164

1164- 1165

1165

1165- 1166

1166

1166- 1167

2 1 2 .

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION

Issues referred to in the September 1986 Estimates Hearings (page references Hansard, Estimates Committee D , Thursday, 18 September 1986 and Monday, 29 September 1986).

Page

Questions on Notice by Senator Michael Baume

- Invalidity retirements 220-221

- Employment of casuals and contractors 221

- Time lost through sick leave 221

- Cost of special stationery and envelopes 221-222

- Grants to ethnic community groups 222

Administrative

- New keyboard operation to reduce RSI problems 222

- Auditor-General1s report '

- major projects in South Australia 222

- Airport facilities for wide-bodied jets 223

- New international terminal at Brisbane 223

- Contracts manual 223-224

- First home owners scheme 224-225

- Estimated costs of leave - 17.5 per cent leave loading 225

- Maternity 225,226

- Special 225

- Sick 225

- Long Service 225

- Liability in future years 225

- Higher duties allowance 225

- Use of flextime 225-226

- Expected overtime requirements 226

- RSI claims 226

- Workers' compensation cases 226

- Equal employment opportunity 226-227

- Women's budget program 227

- Time for appointments to positions 227

- Temporary staff 227-228

- Hospitality and entertainment expenses 228

- Fringe benefits tax 228

- International Year of Shelter for the Homeless 1987 228-229

Repairs and Maintenance

- Department of Aboriginal Affairs 229

- Department of Education 229-230

- Department of Territories 230

- Largest project - International Airport, Brisbane 230

213.

- Neutral Bay boatshed - fire safety equipment - Instalment purchase program - Cromwell building

- responsibility for defective brickwork - Commonwealth Centre - recladding of exterior - Cost of Parramatta building - Cameron Offices - Bureau of Meteorology

- four residences at Williamtown, NSW - Antarctic items - Australian Federal Police, Weston, ACT - fluorescent light tubes - Department of Sport, Recreation and Tourism

- replacement of external glass doors, Bruce, - Commonwealth Centre, Chifley Square, Sydney - replacement of glass door - Asbestos removal

Fitting-out of Leased Premises

- Fit-outs for leased premises, Sydney

First Home Owners Scheme

- Number of applications

Defence Buildings and Works

- Proposed expenditure on housing - High cost items - Entitlements of various ranks - Method of measuring external dimensions - Average cost of cargo hangar - Facilities for new utility helicopter, Townsville - HMAS Nirimba

- swimming pool construction - Medical and dental centres - Australian Defence Force Academy - Redevelopment of Duntroon - Tindal - 71 sites at Watsonia - Repairs and Maintenance

- bathrooms at HMAS Watson - East Hills District Service Unit - repairs to boilers, St Marys

Consultants' Fees

1043- 1044 1044

1044- 1045

1045

1045- 1046 1046

1046- 1047 1047

1047

ACT 1047

1047

1047- 1048

1048-1049

1049-1050

1050 1051

1051-1054 1052

1054- 1055 1055

1055- 1056 1056

1056- 1057 1058 1058 1058

1058-1059 1059 1059

1059

214.

Housing for Members of the Australian Defence Force

- Program continuation 1059-1060

- Repairs in Albury-Wodonga area 1060-1061

Capital Works and Services

- Construction of Commonwealth Offices - Kingsford-Smith airport 1061

- Refurbishment of accommodation, Melbourne - asbestos removal 1061

- Adelaide Commonwealth Offices 1061

- Rock fill, Jervis Bay 1061

- Cocos Island - construction of 2 bedroom townhouses 1061-1062

- Department of Veterans' Affairs 1062

- Upgrading of repatriation hospitals 1062

215 .

DEPARTMENT OF SPORT, RECREATION AND TOURISM

Issues referred to in the September 1986 Estimates Hearings (page references Hansard, Estimates Committee D, Monday 29 September 1986).

Page

Answers to Questions on Notice

- by Senator Puplick - Department - Australian Government Publishing Service - Australian Institute of Sport - Australian Tourist Commission - Australian Sports Commission

1063-1064 1065-1067 1067- 1068 1068 1068- 1069

- by Senator Michael Baume - Department 1069-1070

- Australian Government Publishing Service 1070 - Australian Tourist Commission 1070-1071

- by Senator Withers 1071

Questions on Notice by Senator Vigor 1071-1072

Administrative

- Quadrupling of senior staff costs - Administration costs - Control of costs by boards - State representation on boards

and commissions - Monitoring of involvement in sporting competitions involving South Africa - Provisions for payment of Fringe

Benefits Tax - Promotion Australia - overseas posts - Anzac rifle range - Higher duties allowance - Recruitment difficulties - Fringe benefits

- Staff hours required to calculate - Overseas travel - Postage and telephones - Numbers of semi-official telephones - Consultants and advisory councils

- National Committee on Sport and Recreation for the Disabled - Tourism Advisory Council - Plain English and simpler forms program - Attitudinal survey in the USA

1073 1073 1073

1073- 1074

1074

1074 1074

1074- 1075 1075 1075- 1076 1076

1076

1076- 1077

1077

1077-1078 1077- 1078 1078 1078- 1081

216.

Administration (contd) Page

- Adjustment credit advised by World Tourist Organisation - Observance of Australia Day 1081­ - Sponsorship

- National consultant: Dawn Smith and Associates - Damages payment - Tourism Overseas Promotion Scheme (TOPS)

- Recipients and purposes of grants 1082·

- Time taken to process claims - Difference between appropriation and expenditure 1083

- Ratio of applicants - Reasons for rejection - Grant ceiling - Payment to Brisbane City Council towards cost

of bid for the 1992 Olympic Games 1084

- Sport and recreation programs - Awareness programs for disabled athletes 1085 - Efforts to arrange Ministerial attendance 1085

- Coverage in Department's Annual Report - Life saving "

- Recreation and fitness program - Booklet on need of older Australians 1086

Australian Institute of Sport

- Representation on Board of Management - Police raids: ’rowing boats' incident 1087

- Price Waterhouse investigation - Previous Executive Director: Dr Cheffers - Resignation - Financial settlement - Hospitality and entertainment - Dr Richard Telford

- Comments on Institute's attitude to sports science - Relationship with Institute - Random tests for drug usage in sport - Violence in sport - Level of coaching - criticisms

by Ms Gael Martin - Numbers of scholars coached at the Institute - Decentralisation programs: cricket and cycling 1091

- Velodromes - Decision to locate sports 1092·

- Distribution of scholarships between sports - Hours of opening to the public - Flextime and overtime - Jump in AIS building running costs - Halls of residence for athletes - Fringe benefits tax liability

1081 1082 1082

1082 1082

1083 1083

1084

1084 1084

1085

1086

1086 1086 1086

1087

1087 1089 1088

1089 1089 1090

1090 1090 1090 1091

1091 1091

1092 1091 1094 1094 1094 1094 1094 1094 1094

217 .

Information Services Page

- Promotion Australia: liaison with organisation - Publications of AGPS: costs - 'Living by Our Wits'

- Booklet on the fringe benefits tax - AGPS - Debtors - Departmental guidelines on printing

- Copies of Government reports going to Parliament House - 'Commonwealth Record' - Returns - Agencies on free distribution list - Stocks of copies of the Constitution - Expo 86: Vancouver

- Advice on cultural programs - Involvement of the Australia Council - Australian Expositions Committee - Membership - Expo 88: Brisbane Administrative

1094- 1095

1095 1095

1095

1095- 1096

1096- 1097 1096-1097 1097 1097 1097-1098

1098 1098 1098

1098-1099

Funding for promotion of overseas visitors 1099-1101 - Promotion of city gateways: booklet 1099-1100

Australian Tourist Commission (ATC) - Power to contract employees 1101

- Staff originating outside Sydney and Melbourne 1101 - Review of staff secondment scheme 1101

- Action to speed up processing of visitor arrival statistics 1102

- Sample for domestic tourism monitor 1102

- Discussions between ATC and Qantas re Tasmania services 1102

- Initiation of talks re penalty rates 1102-1103

- Expected overtime 1103

- Higher Duties Allowance 1103

- Fall-off in visitors to Canberra institutions 1103-1104 - Rescheduling of airline arrivals 1104

- Promotion in times of terrorism and falling dollar 1104

- Victorian tourism representative in Los Angeles 1104-1105

- Visas and visa restrictions 1105

- Need to provide appropriate accommodation for Japanese tourists 1105-1106

- Manual of Japanese graphics 1106

- Fringe Benefits Tax 1106

- Estimate for plant and equipment expenditure 1106 - Industry cash contributions 1106

- Number of meetings per year 1106

- Expenditure on Papal tour 1107

- Overseas Marketing and Marketing Services, Australia 1107

- Finalisation of inquiry into tourism 1107

- Expenditure on advising on validity of TOPS applications 1107

218 .

Administrative (c o n t i n u e d ) Page

Australian Tourist Commission (continued) - Bodies consulted in Australia on international marketing 1107

Australian Sports Commission

- Number of employees including those on HDA 1108

- 'other' and 'below line' costs 1108

- Fringe benefits tax 1108

- Sports Talent Encouragement Plan (STEP) 1108

Payment to or for the States and the Northern Territory

- National Sports Facilities Program - Netball Centre, Hoblers Bridge: Commonwealth funding 1108-1109

Australian Sports Commission

- Details of meetings and attendance of members 1109

- STEP program and funding of Olympic teams 1109

- Costs of Commission 1109

- Publications of the Commission - 1109-1110

- Role in developing programs against violence in sports 1110

- Sports Development Program: funding charges 1110

- Allocations - Australian Olympic Foundation 1110-1111

- Commonwealth Games Association 1111

- Confederation of Australian Sport 1111

- Relationship between Commission and the Confederation of Australian Sport 1111

- Anticipated extra meetings 1111

- Overseas travel: destinations 1111

- Sports Aid Foundation: operating costs 1111-1112

219 .

DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

Issues referred to in the October 1986 Estimates Hearings (page references Hansard, Estimates Committee D, Tuesday, 14 October 1986) .

Page

Answers to Questions on Notice by Senator Puplick

- Department of Aboriginal Affairs - Aboriginal Development Commission - Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies - Aboriginal Hostels Limited

Answers to Questions on Notice by Senator Michael Baume

- Department of Aboriginal Affairs - Aboriginal Development Commission - Aboriginal Hostels Limited - Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies

Answers to Questions on Notice by Senator Withers

- Department of Aboriginal Affairs 1171

Questions on Notice by Senator Vigor 1171-1174

Advantages of Program Format 1174

Minister's Portfolio Meetings 1174-1175

Minister's Annual Overview Submission to Cabinet 1175-1176

1170

1170-1171 1171 1171

1168

1168- 1169 1169 1169- 1170

Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies - Placement in particular program budgeting category 1176

Definition of 'Torres Strait Islander' 1176-1177

2 2 0 .

Special Program Consultants

- Land grants - Progress by Miss L. 0 1Donoghue

Granting of Deeds of Grants in Trust

- Progress in Queensland 1178·

South Pacific Arts Festival

- Report of interim steering committee 1179

Legal Aid

- Statement by National Police Officers' Association 1180

1178 1178

1179

1180

1181

2 2 1 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

CONTENTS

Page

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE......................... 3

INTRODUCTION..................................... 4

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE... ......................... 5

Defence Personnel Wastage Rates in General..... 5 Army Reserve Wastage Rates...................... 7

Army Reserve Advertising....................... 8

Munitions Security............................. 9

Hire of Aircraft............................... 10

Fuel Volumes................................... 10

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS.................... 11

Review of Australia's Overseas Representation... 11 DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE...... 12

Senators' Information Systems....... 12

Overtime Payments to Parliamentary Staff........ 13

NATIONAL MAPPING ACTIVITIES...................... 14

REDUCTION OF EXPENDITURE THROUGH ENERGY AUDITS____ 17 PROCEDURAL AND OTHER MATTERS...................... 19

Briefing of Officials Attending................. 19

Revision of the Committee's Procedures........ . 20 Special Appropriations.......................... 22

Questions on Notice............................. 23

Presentation of Estimates....................... 25

Extra Materials Provided by Departments....... . 26

Ministers and Officials...................... 27

Appendices Index to issues discussed in Hansard............ 29

Minutes of the Committee's Meetings............. 41

224 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee E presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 22 August 1986 the Senate referred to the Committee

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the

year ending on 30 June 1987 (being Appropriation Bill

(No. 1) 1986-87), Particulars of Certain Proposed

Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1987

(being Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1986-87) and Expenditure

Under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year

ending on 30 June 1986 for the following departments:-

. Resources and Energy

. Defence

. Foreign Affairs (including the Australian Development

Assistance Bureau)

. Attorney-General1s

. Special Minister of State 2

2. The Committee has considered the Particulars of proposed

expenditure and actual expenditure for each of the above

Departments, making use of Explanatory Notes which were

tabled in the Senate on 21 August 1986 and

16 September 1986. The Committee has also received

explanations from the Minister for Resources and Energy

(Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans Q.C.), the Minister for

Finance (Senator the Hon. Peter Walsh) and officers from

the departments and authorities concerned. Copies of the

Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence

taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of

the Senate in connection with its consideration of

Appropriation Bills (Nos. 1 and 2) 1986-87 and the

225 .

Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for 1985-86. Written answers to questions taken on notice will also be tabled in the Senate in a volume entitled: "Additional Information - Written Answers To Questions Taken On Notice". Answers to certain questions on notice asked before and during the Committee's hearings have already been incorporated in the Committee's Hansard. Additional papers tabled in the Committee by the Ministers will be either included in full or, where they are already public documents, by reference, in the Committee's

Additional Information volume referred to above. This * 3 4 5 volume also contains a number of written answers to questions arising from the Committee's Supplementary Estimates hearings in April 1986 but not answered in time for publication then.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates. A large number of issues was raised by the Committee during the course of its hearings. For the

information of Senators a Hansard index to all of these issues is attached as an appendix to this Report.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Defence Personnel Wastage Rates in General

4. As i n previous years, the Committee continues to be concerned about the high turnover level of officers and members of the regular and reserve defence forces. The Committee devoted a significant proportion of time to examining this question. (Senate Estimates Hansard,

18 September 1986, pages 282-294)

5. Over t he year 1985-86 there was a total wastage from the Australian Defence Force of 8,614 personnel (or 12.3%) of whom almost 1000 were officers. This percentage is above the average for the past 10 years of 11.1%.

22 6 .

6. For various reasons including, of course, the highly demanding nature of the service, the submarine force of the Royal Australian Navy functions with around 80% of its establishment. It is questionable whether the flight crew

strength of the Royal Australian Air Force is ideal and the attrition of pilots has been higher than expected. (Mr Moten, Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 284 ) In the 1985 calendar year 65 pilots resigned

from the RAAF, including 14 Wing Commanders, 7 Squadron Leaders and 35 Flight Lieutenants. (Departmental Written Answer, Additional Information) In the Army there is an officer wastage rate of 10%, the precise reasons for which

continue to elude the Department. (Brigadier Howard, Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 283)

7. The Committee was surprised to learn that the average wastage for the ADF in the past 10 years has been 11.1% and 12.3% for the past year. (Mr Englund, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements, Senate Estimates Hansard,

18 September 1986, page 285) As one Senator noted a wastage rate of this level "is technically throwing away tens of millions of dollars of invested resources". (ibid) In addition, given the significance of the question, it was

disappointing that the Department was unable to tell the Committee precisely who was conducting the study, what precisely was being investigated, what was the due date for completion of the study and what, if any, preliminary

findings were available. (Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September 19 8 6 , page 286 ) 8

8. The Committee was also told, and in the present social climate found it particularly depressing, that nothing had been done to address the high turnover of female personnel in the Royal Australian Air Force. The Committee is not

convinced that this is a fact of life about which nothing can be done. The 10 year average loss rate for female

227 .

officers is almost 21% (but just over 11% in 1985-86) and

for other ranks it is over 25% (but just below 18% in

1985-86 ) .

9. The Committee acknowledges that the Minister for Defence

the Hon. Kim Beazley, M.P. has already indicated that

unnecessary wastage rates are of pressing concern to him

and his Department. On 1 September 1986 the Chief of

Defence Force, General Sir Phillip Bennett, K.B.E., A.O.,

D.S.O., initiated a study into retention rates which is

well under way. The Committee, at its future hearings,

will be interested to learn the results of this study, the

reasons it offers for high wastage rates and the strategies

it proposes to solve the problem.

Army Reserve Wastage Rates

10. The Committee remains concerned about the possible waste of

money which may arise from the high turnover rate in the

Army Reserve. Certainly the expenditure in 1985-86 of the

large sum of $2.5 million in an advertising campaign has

helped to reduce losses somewhat. It is believed that the

wastage of reservists in 1985-86 was 7,411 or 31.6% of the

reserve force, which contrasts with a wastage in 1984-85 of

9,535 or 36.2%. The extremely worrying aspect of this

matter is that out of a force of approximately 23,000

personnel almost 17,000 or close to 75% have left over the

2 years from 1984-86. The Committee noted the Department's

view that "it is the considered judgment of those people

well versed in Army Reserve recruiting and retention

matters" that "based on the experience gained during

1985-86 and the results of the market research, the

recruiting strategies are to remain essentially the same".

(Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 289.

See also the detailed discussion of these matters in the

Committee's Report on the Supplementary Estimates,

May 1986, Parliamentary Paper, No.178/1986, page 107.)

2 2 8 .

11. The Department of Defence tabled in the Committee a study

by Bennett Research Pty. Ltd. which set out to identify the reasons for officers leaving the Army Reserve. Receipt of this report had been foreshadowed in the Committee's May 1986 Report. The study identified eight major groups of factors contributing to officers' dissatisfaction - time

demands, money-related issues, family and civilian work commitments, the demands of paper-work and bureaucracy, dissatisfaction with promotion systems, organisational problems at unit/corps level, relationship problems between

the reserves and regular forces and the perceived attitude of disinterest by the Government.

12. The Department's Report to the Committee highlighted some

remedial initiatives including a statement of long term commitment from the Government, the despatch of a ministerial letter to all reservists, measures to integrate and affiliate the reserve and regular forces, an efficiency

review of the Army Reserve system of administration (which has produced over 150 recommendations in 1985 most of which have been or are being implemented) officer and overseas training reforms and the reinstatement of tax-free

incentives for reservist's pay.

13. The issue of concern to the Committee in all of this is

simply whether Army Reserve affairs are being conducted with a sufficient degree of administrative efficiency and planning foresight to ensure that proper value is being obtained for the moneys that are to be appropriated for

Army purposes. The Committee will continue to monitor these matters to ensure that, on all accounts, value for the tax-payers' money is obtained.

Array Reserve Advertising

14. The Committee expresses its disappointment at the written material supplied to it by the Department concerning Army Reserve Advertising. (See Senate Estimates Hansard,

229 .

18 September 1986, pages 287-288) In its May 1986 Report,

the Committee, at paragraph 20, expressly requested access

to the research of the consultants on officer wastage in

the Army Reserve. The document supplied to the Committee

was confusing and inadequate. The Committee has expressed

its "hope that those who do these surveys will in future

... give us some sensible break-ups". (ibid, page 288)

The Committee does not regard a Defence Department Report

that goes on for 30 or 40 pages of statistics as too

voluminous for it to study and it would have appreciated

access to it. It continues to await that access.

Munitions Security

15. The Committee was unhappy that it did not receive clear-cut

answers to questions on the issue of weapons and munitioins

security at defence factories and stores. (Senate

Estimates Hansard, 23 September 1986, pages 666-669) The

Committee was told that, within the limits of the current

accounting practices, "we are not missing any ammunition".

(ibid, page 666) In answer to a question on notice,

however, it was revealed that there have been 4 incidents

of forced entry into Munitions Establishments where items

are known to have been, or are suspected of having been,

stolen. Items missing or unaccounted for include: 19 x

1 pound bags of gunpowder; 6 x 3 oz explosive pellets; and

9 x 25 lb shell cases filled with propellant and primer

(but thankfully apparently lacking any explosives).

16. The Department reported that it was the view of the

Australian Federal Police that "the incidents were

mischievous break-ins by juveniles and they could not be

regarded as an organised effort to obtain explosive items".

(Departmental Written Answer, Additional Information) The

Department reports that security arrangements at the

Explosives Factory, Maribyrong and the Ammunition Factory,

Footscray have now been thoroughly reviewed and a number of

appropriate measures either instituted or planned.

230.

17. The Committee noted that the Department believes that some

630 rounds of ammunition are unaccounted for at the

Ammunition Factory, Footscray although the Department

states that it cannot be assumed that these rounds were

stolen rather than otherwise unaccounted for due to

inadequacies in the factory's documentation. This figure,

although clearly very much less than the 1 million rounds

or 25,000 rounds about which there have been reports, is

nevertheless a worrying figure.

18. The Committee views this issue with concern. Once again,

for the Committee, the question is one of value for money

and the administrative efficiency of management and

accounting systems at the factory. However, the broader

issue of public safety is also paramount in the minds of

the Committee's members in making this report. The

security of munitions establishments and the .unaccountable

loss of explosive materials will be subjects for the

Committee's continuing investigations when next the

Committee meets.

Hire of Aircraft

19. The Committee expresses its appreciation to the Department

for supplying a useful summary of its cost-benefit study of

the recurring hire of aircraft for target-towing and other

purposes. The document appears in the Comittee's

Additional Information volume.

Fuel Volumes

20. The Committee has asked that in future, the Estimates

Committee be supplied with fuel volumes in litres, gallons

or tonnes, as the case may be, as well as the estimated

cost. The Committee has also asked for details the number

of sea-days, flying hours or vehicle days covered.

Clearly, the Committee in making this request has no desire

231.

to intrude into areas which the Minister reasonably

determines are of national security significance, for

example, stock levels.

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

21. The Committee draws the Senate's attention to the following

summary of the review of overseas representation submitted

to the Government in May 1986 by Dr Harris, Secretary of

the Department of Foreign Affairs. The full review is

expected to be published in November 1986. However, the

conclusions are matters of some significance in the context

of the appropriations and they are set out below. The

Committee commends the Department for its foresight in

preparing the following summary.

Review of Australia's Overseas Representation

. As a medium-sized country with limited

economic and military power, Australia must rely heavily on persuasion to achieve its vital overseas objectives;

. With few natural allies, Australia needs wide ranging and high quality representation overseas to build coalitions and engender support on issues important to it;

. Australia's capacity to do this is thin and becoming thinner. In general, because of resource pressures, it is already falling short of the necessary capacity to achieve some of its international objectives;

. Growing immediate demands on overseas staff - tourist visas, passports, immigration

processing, defence procurement, consular services, narcotics liaison, and security checking - have reduced and will reduce

further the resources available for pursuing broader policies to protect our political independence and economic well-being;

. In general terms, the existing geographic distribution of Australia's overseas

representation accords with Australia's most important needs;

232.

. Australia's overseas representation has served Australian interests well, but the associated decision-making processes, especially in relation to resource allocation, need to be

improved. In particular they need to ensure a focus on objectives and outcomes and not

simply on resources, as has commonly been the case in the past.

DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE

Senators' Information Systems

22. In its May 1986 Report the Committee reported on the

Department's provision of office services equipment in

parliamentarians' electorate offices and the need for

maximum compatibility between existing systems and those to

be installed in the future. (Parliamentary Paper,

No. 178/1986, page 104) During its latest hearings the

Committee was told that the Department had- amended the

tender specification for these systems actually to

down-grade the requirement for compatibility, from

"mandatory" to "highly desirable". In a written answer to

a question on notice, the Committee was supplied with a

list of no fewer than 50 "Highly Desirable Features" which

are to be weighted in the evaluation of competing tenders.

However, these Highly Desirable Features will collectively

contribute 17.7% of the tendered system's overall

assessment score, with equipment compatibility representing

14.91% of that 17.7%, namely 2.64%. Originally, as a

"mandatory feature" compatibility would notionally have

been one of three mandatory items sharing in 35.3% of the

total assessment of a tendered system.

23. The Committee has been left feeling uncertain as to whether

the systems that will eventually be chosen will be adequate

to parliamentarians' present and future needs. It was

suggested to the Committee that Senators will not notice

any difference between their current technology in

Parliament House and that to be installed in electorate

offices. It was also said that the aim of the present

233.

exercise is to attempt, "within the terms and conditions of

the tender and the Government's decision to achieve [100

percent compatibility], commensurate also with the

Government's objective of maximum industry participation in

the project". (Mr Watson, Assistant Secretary, ADP Branch,

Senate Estimates Hansard, 26 September 1986,

pages 1024-1025)

24. The Committee requests that if the Department becomes aware

that anything less than total compatibility is likely to

eventuate, it should be informed of this development.

Overtime Payments to Parliamentary Staff

25. In its May 1986 Report the Committee recommended that "the

consideration currently being given [in the Department of

the Special Minister of State] to [ the matter of

parliamentary and ministerial staff overtime] ... should

proceed to draft guidelines and procedures which could give

all parliamentarians an opportunity to consider the

implications of this issue". (op cit, page 104) The

Committee has not yet received such guidelines. The

Department did supply a list of the 1985-86 overtime

payments made to non-ministerial Senators' and Members'

staff ranging from $24,589 to nil. (Departmental Written

Answer, Additional Information)

26. The Committee was told that there are no formal limits on

such overtime payments but that "when it appears that the

overtime usage is excessive the matter is brought to the

attention of the relevant member of Parliament".

(Mr Logue, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and

General Division, Senate Estimates Hansard,

26 September 1986, page 1025) When the Committee asked

what criteria are employed to determine what is excessive,

reference was made to "seeing who rises above the ordinary

level of usage", (ibid)

234.

27. This is an important matter. No parliamentarian should be deprived of reasonable staff assistance to perform his or her responsibilities. Equally, the tax-payers and the Parliament should know the criteria by which departmental officials have taken it upon themselves to determine whether overtime claims of parliamentary staff are

excessive. The solution to this problem is for draft guidelines to be prepared and circulated for discussion. The Committee will continue to call for this in preference to allowing a system of departmental discretion to prevail.

NATIONAL MAPPING ACTIVITIES

28. Expenditure in mapping Australia was the subject of some concern, not only to the Committee members, but also to other Senators attending the Committee's hearings.

29. The Division of National Mapping, located within the Department of Resources and Energy, seeks funds under Appropriation Bill (No. 1) Division 521, of some $18 million, over $1 million more than was appropriated

last financial year. Mapping functions are also carried out by the Department of Defence through the Army Survey Corps. However, a senior officer of that Department informed the Committee that, under current accounting

arrangements, the Department "has no way of directly presenting the costs of those sorts of sub-functions". (Mr Ives, First Assistant Secretary, Programs and Budgets, Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 278)

Subsequently, in a written answer to a question on notice, the Department of Defence indicated that it had examined the question of comparing the costs involved when the Army Survey Corps produced a map with those involved when the National Mapping Division produced a map. However, the

Department was unable to produce relevant dollar figures for the Committee's examination. Nor were any figures offered to the Committee on the further question on notice concerning the overall expenditure on mapping as a budget

235 .

program within the Department. (Departmental Written

Answer, Additional Information) The Department's inability

to supply these details to the Committee is worrying.

Firstly, the Committee at the hearing was led to believe by

the Department's principal financial spokesman that

comparable costings were available (Senate Estimates

Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 278) because they had

already been prepared and provided to the Richardson

inquiry. Indeed, certain indicative information had been

published in the press, which, when referred to by the

Committee, was 'neither confirmed nor denied'. (Mr Moten,

Deputy Secretary, ibid, page 279) Secondly, given the

resources of the Department, which seeks the Senate's

agreement to an appropriation of over $7 billion dollars,

the Committee has difficulty with the suggestion that a

program cost for Defence mapping could not be estimated

during the four weeks taken to provide the written answer.

The absence of this data has, of course, deprived the

Committee of its right to deliberate and report on this

issue.

30. In addition, mapping functions are performed by the

relevant authorities in each of the six states, usually by

Surveyors-General; by the Australian Hydrographer; by the

Australian Survey Office; and by specialist cartographic

consultants in the private sector. In all, it is estimated

that surveying and mapping in Australia is a $1 billion a

year industry employing 20,000 people in the public and

private sectors. (Departmental Written Answer, Department

of Resources and Energy, in Additional Information)

31. The Committee was somewhat surprised that the Division of

National Mapping, which is probably Australia's premier

mapping authority, was unable, even on notice, to estimate

for the Committee the approximate cost to the tax-payer of

all Commonwealth and State mapping agencies. Although the

236.

Director of National Mapping chairs the National Mapping

Council which co-ordinates mapping programs, the Council

does not monitor expenditures.

32. The Committee did learn that some $6.5 million worth of

mapping tasks were sub-contracted to the private sector by

the Division of National Mapping in 1983 to 1987, out of a

total expenditure of some $60 million. (Departmental

Written Answer, Additional Information) In addition over

the past 3 to 4 years between $500,000 and $700,000 worth

of cartographic work has been sub-contracted out to the

private sector by the Department of Defence.

(Colonel Laing, Senate Estimates Hansard, 18 September

1986, page 278)

33. Australia is, of course, the largest island in the world.

It is a big country and clearly its coastline and interior

should be mapped and those maps up-dated to the highest

standards of cartography.

34. As far as the Defence Department is concerned, the

Committee notes the point made by a senior official that

the Department has "maintained in the survey establishment

the capacity for mapping in a time of war, a capacity to

deploy resources into the field". The officer added that

"to that extent we have to maintain the skills of those

people for that sort of purpose [ and this is done ] by

actually carrying out useful mapping programs ... We do

maintain a basic core force level within the defence force

...". (Mr Moten, Deputy Secretary, Senate Estimates

Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 278) The Committee noted,

however, that some 650 Army Survey Corp personnel are

deployed in this way, representing an unusually large core

force. In the report "Mapping Australia - A Review of

Various Mapping Services, July 1986 (the Richardson

Report), these issues have been investigated and the Report

is currently under consideration by the Government.

237 .

35. The Richardson Report is a "Cabinet-in-Confidence" document

although a detailed article in the Canberra Times of

3 August 1986 appears to discuss some aspects of its

contents. These were of some interest to the Committee.

The Committee recalls that in its May 1986 Report it

referred to documents, concerning the acquisition by the

Army of certain land, which were not supplied to the

Committee although once again, the Canberra Times appears

to have had access to them. (Parliamentary Paper,

No. 178/1986, page 114) The Committee can only report that

it is intrigued by this state of affairs.

36. There is unquestionably a need for an urgent

rationalisation of Australia's national mapping activities.

Such a rationalisation should not diminish necessary

mapping capabilities. It should however, eliminate costly

and unnecessary duplication of functions which do not

contribute at a training or national interest level to the

maintenance of an effective Australian mapping profession.

The private sector should have an adequate opportunity to

play an acceptable role in the Government's provision and

maintenance of mapping functions. The Department has

reported that the matter is currently under review by the

Government. (Mr Moten, Senate Estimates Hansard,

18 September 1986, page 279)

37. The Committee will continue to monitor this matter and it

will, in due course, seek from the Department the

conclusions of the review.

REDUCTION OF EXPENDITURE THROUGH ENERGY AUDITS

38. During the course of its hearings, the Committee examined

the extent to which public expenditure could be reduced by

relatively inexpensive energy audits. Across an

organisation as large as the public service and its related

authorities, it should be possible to achieve significant

savings in this way without loss of efficiency. The

238.

Committee noted that within the Department of Resources and

Energy a very modest expenditure of just over $270,000 by

the National Industrial Energy Management Scheme was having

a useful impact in assisting small to medium-sized private

sector industries identify potential savings. (Senate

Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 254) The

Committee also noted that some areas of the Department of

Defence and the Royal Australian Air Force had been the

subject of energy audits conducted either by the Department

of Housing and Construction or the RAAF itself. (Senate

Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 294)

39. With annual expenditure of some $57 million in the Defence

Department alone for fuel, light and power, there is

undoubtedly a need to take reasonable steps to conserve

energy if this can be done without undermining efficiency.

In written answers to questions taken on notice (see Senate

Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 256) the

Department of Resources and Energy provided some limited

comparative costings on the effects on Departmental energy

expenditure of retrofitting buildings. This information

revealed that for the limited number of areas where figures

were available after 10 months, savings of $888,900 were

achieved from initial installation costs of $799,157.

(Departmental Written Answer, Additional Information) Some

studies have suggested that, in full operation, energy

audits may produce savings of up to 30% on energy costs

without diminishing efficiency. If such targets could be

achieved on a public service-wide scale, it could result in

a most significant saving of tax-payers' money.

40. The Committee will examine this issue, and the success of

current and proposed energy audits in producing savings, at

subsequent Estimates hearings .

239.

PROCEDURAL AND OTHER MATTERS

Briefing of Officials Attending

41. The capacity of Australia's most senior public servants to

give straight forward and satisfactory answers to questions

asked by Estimates Committees has long been a subject of

some interest to the Committee. The reasons for this are

two fold. Firstly, although Ministers attend the

Committee's hearings, officials bear the brunt of the

Committee's questioning. Secondly, the Parliament in

passing the 1986 Appropriation Bills is being asked by the

Executive to approve the appropriation and expenditure of

some $24 billion the details of which can often only be

supplied by the senior official who administer spending

programs. These appropriations are, of course, the subject

of an evaluation in the Senate, in Committee of the Whole.

It has been the practice of the Estimates Committees

however, to make a preliminary analysis of significant,

interesting or unusual areas of expenditure by obtaining

oral and written answers to questions seeking facts,

opinions and assessments. For obvious practical reasons

this large task is telescoped into 2 or 3 abbreviated days

of Committee hearings. It is, therefore, essential that

officials attending the Committee be equipped to answer

questions freely, fully and frankly, without undue

suspicion of the questions, without contradictions and

without some perceived need to give anything less than a

proper answer to a question emanating from a parliamentary

committee.

42. The majority of the officers who attend the Committee's

hearings acquit themselves satisfactorily and the Committee

properly obtains the information it seeks. However, during

the hearings there were occasions where straight forward

answers were not immediately given. There was also

occasionally an inability to give answers to questions with

240.

the result that some Senators were deprived of the

opportunity to develop properly a line of questioning on

matters of interest to the Committee.

43. The Committee recognises, of course, that there will be

matters of detail about which senior officers may not be

briefed and answers to such questions are properly taken on

notice. This cannot be said, however, of the Committee's

entirely predictable opening sequence of questions which

seeks to determine, for each relevant Department, the

precise monetary effects of, for example, exchange

fluctuations and interest rate movements on departmental

appropriations. The Committee regularly seeks this

information and asks for it to be presented on a

sufficiently clear basis as to make such fluctuations and

movements amenable to comparisons with the previous year's

expenditure and appropriations. -

44. Equally, at a time when much interest has been expressed

publicly in the procedures, administered by the Department

of the Special Minister of State, for assessment of

ministerial and other travelling allowances, it was

disappointing that an adequate oral explanation of the

rules and procedures was not given in answer to a question

which was instead eventually taken on notice.

(Departmental Written Answer, Additional Information)

Revision of Estimates Committees' Procedures

45. The Estimates Committee hearings are a fact-finding

exercise, undertaken by the Committees on behalf of the Senate, to enable the Senate as a whole to have access to the fruits of many hours of questioning and explanations. The Committees are not, of course, engaged in a process of competing with the Auditor-General in the professional

financial scrutiny undertaken by that office, nor are they in competition with the Senate's own Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations which can engage in a

241 .

thorough examination of particular aspects of expenditure.

The Estimates Committees must, as it were, make use of a

variety of brushes, both broad and narrow, in their efforts

to obtain a picture of proposed departmental expenditure

and whether it represents, for the national electorate

whose taxes pay for it, reasonable value for money.

46. At the present time, through the use of Program Budgeting,

the Executive is making fundamental and far-reaching

changes to the way in which it presents its annual

appropriations to the Senate for scrutiny and approval.

This may, therefore, be an appropriate time for the Senate

itself to re-examine those Estimates Committee procedures

which, since 1970, have been used to make government

financial administration accountable to the Senate.

Estimates Committee A, in its Report to the Senate in

October 1985, referred to "the need for a re-examination of

the role and methods of operation of the Senate Estimates

Committees". (Parliamentary Paper, No. 509/1985, pages

18-19) In addition, the Senate Standing Committee on

Finance and Government Operations in its Second Report on

Changes in the Presentation of the Appropriations and

Departmental Explanatory Notes has asked whether the

implementation by the Executive of Program Budgeting

strategies has not precipitated the opportunity for the

Senate Estimates Committees to "undertake a more thorough,

on-going examination of selected programs as well as (or

instead of) the current brief bi-annual exercise".

(Parliamentary Paper, No. 502/1985, page 2) Alone among

the Estimates Committees, Committee E in its examination of

expenditure has not yet had to deal with the different

emphasis which Program Budgeting places on performance as

against projections. It will be doing so in the next

Estimates. Both types of evaluation have their place in

the financial accountability procedures of Parliament.

However, the present Estimates Committees twice-yearly

242.

hearings may not be tailored to produce that degree of in-depth scrutiny which Program Budgeting both facilitates and calls for.

47. Senators who regularly serve on Estimates Committees have accumulated a quite exceptional degree of knowledge and expertise relating to public expenditure under the appropriations. However, they are expected to put that

skill and experience to something akin to a

once-and-for-al1 test covering the duration of the estimates hearings. In their present form Senate Standing Orders, and the resolution which refers the Appropriation Bills to them, do not permit Estimates Committees to

provide for a more continuous scrutiny throughout the whole year. It may be that there is a need for the Committees to have the power to convene, examine witnesses and report on expenditure as and when they consider that a particular

matter requires such an examination and report. This Committee considers that now may be the opportune time for the Senate to re-examine the work of its Estimates Committees, bearing in mind the changes already put in place by the Program Budgeting initiative and the important

role which the Estimates Committees play in facilitating the Senate's financial scrutiny functions.

Special Appropriations

48. In the course of its hearings the Committee examined a number of Special Appropriations which, while obviously not appearing in the Appropriation Bills, were described in the Departmental Explanatory Notes. It is, of course, entirely proper that details of expenditure under Special

Appropriations should be the subject of some examination in the context of the Estimates. Indeed, the Committee noted with surprise that the Department of the Special Minister of State, unlike other Departments, required some prompting before it supplied details of its expenditure under Special

Appropriations since these included significant expenditure

243 .

on the Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry of interest to

all Senators. The Committee considers that details of

expenditure under Special Appropriations should be

described in Departmental Explanatory Notes.

49. The broader question, which the Committee considers should

also be addressed by the Senate, is whether the time has

not arrived for scrutiny of expenditure under Special

Appropriations to be put on a new basis which would

facilitate an effective examination of this large area of

expenditure which occurs outside the usual appropriation

process.

50. The Committee takes this opportunity to draw to the

attention of the Senate the expenditure under Special

Appropriations for the five Departments examined by the

Committee as recorded in the Departmental Explanatory

Notes:

$

Department of Resources and Energy............. 163,059,500

Department of Defence.......................... 488,364,000

Department of Foreign Affairs...................... 150,000

(Australian Development Assistance Bureau)....90,100,000

Department of the Attorney-General..............15,512,000

Department of the Special Minister of State..... 9,315,000

Questions on Notice

51. As is the established practice with the Committee, and in

accordance with Senate Standing Orders, nine Senators who

were not members of the Committee attended its hearings and

asked questions of both the Minister at table and public

service officers. The Committee encourages and welcomes

the attendance of such Senators whose presence and

questions add to the quality of the Committee's work. The

usual practice in integrating the involvement of such

Senators is for them to be given the call by the Chair

244 .

after the members of the Committee have completed their

questioning in relation to items of expenditure. This is a

rule of courtesy and convenience.

52. It would require most exceptional circumstances to arise

before the Committee would contemplate the need to use the

powers given to it by the Senate under Standing

Order 36AB(10), to order that any Senator should not

question witnesses. However, given the way the Estimates

Committee operate at present, the time of the Committee is

limited, its workload is heavy and those Senators whom the

Senate has expressly appointed to the Committee have an

important responsibility to make and complete a preliminary

examination of all of the departmental estimates on behalf

of the Senate. Thus, time is at a premium.

53. The Committee has been gratified at the increasing practice

of Senators, both members of the Committee and others:

. to give advance notice of difficult or detailed questions which may then be answered during the course of the Committee's hearings and thereby allow for follow-up questioning if necessary; and

. to place on notice certain types of

information-seeking questions in order to leave the Committee with as much time as possible to conduct analytical questioning, the answers to which may lead to important follow-up

questions.

54. The Committee repeats and emphasises that traditionally it

encourages and seeks to facilitate the fullest possible

examination of the estimates by all interested Senators,

who will later in the Senate determine the passage of the

Appropriation Bills. However, this process is reasonably

facilitated by adherence to the practices described above.

On the other hand, where questions taken on notice are not

answered as soon as possible, but certainly at least before

the passage of the Bills, then these kinds of civilised

arrangements begin to collapse.

245.

55. Where a question on notice is asked which, on departmental

examination, will require a considerable time to answer,

that fact should be communicated in writing to the

Committee with an indication of the date when the

information will be supplied. All questions asked under

the auspices of the Committee's procedures are Committee

questions and should be treated accordingly. It is not

acceptable for Departments, when answering questions on

notice, to allocate such insufficient resources to the task

that the outstanding answers from Additional Estimates

hearings are made available some 5 months later and either

only a few days prior to or actually during the

commencement of the Committee's hearings for the next

year's main Estimates. Certainly, the Committee does ask

difficult questions but surely some reasonable effort must

be made to answer all of these before the next hearing.

Presentation of the Estimates

56. One of the issues arising from the Committee's examination

of expenditure on mapping by the Department of Defence (see

the discussion above) is the degree to which important

sub-functional costs can be ascertained and presented to

the Estimates Committee for examination. (See Senate

Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 279 and Senate

Estimates Hansard, 23 September 1986, page 673) It is of

considerable interest to the Committee to have a break-up

of defence expenditure on basic training, operational

training, administration, health and other functional

areas, such as, for example, the Army Survey Corps. It may

be that under Program Budgeting, to which the Department

will convert for the Committee's next Estimates hearings,

the identification and display of such integral costs will

be possible. (See the statement by Mr Ives, Senate

Estimates Hansard, 18 September 1986, page 278) The

Committee acknowledges that the Department of Defence has

made efforts to supply the Committee with additional

information, bearing in mind that the Department's annual

246.

appropriation represents some 37% of the total

appropriation sought under Appropriation Bill (No. 1). The

Committee looks forward, in the future, to obtaining

supplementary information which represents a functional

breakdown of expenditure for this major Department.

57. The Committee would also like to see in the text of the

Appropriation Bills reference to all items of expenditure

that arise under each of the divisions and sub-divisions

that are listed.

Extra Materials Provided by Departments

58. The Committee is responsible for examining a number of

Departments engaged in a wide range of complex activities

which involve very high expenditure. Any supplementary

information the Committee receives from Departments before

the hearings commence is always welcomed. The Committee

has already made reference to the helpful attitude of the

Department of Defence in this respect. The Committee

compliments the Department of Defence for its timely

submission of detailed information concerning Capital

Equipment, Capital Works and Defence Co-operation

expenditure. The Committee was also pleased to receive

from the Department of Foreign Affairs supplementary

details of its International Year of Peace Budget.

Unfortunately this particular information was received too

lata to be easily absorbed by members of the Committee.

59. It is frustrating for members of the Committee, even those

whose experience makes them experts in particular fields of

expenditure, to be presented with detailed information the

day before or even two days before Committee hearings. The

Committee renews its request, which it makes every year,

that where additional information is to be provided, it

should be provided in time to enable Senators to read it

reasonably carefully.

247 .

60. Quite often in the Committee's experience, supplementary

material is prepared by Departments in good time for

submission to the Committee but is then delayed in a

Minister's office while it is re-checked. The Committee

would respectfully seek the assistance of Ministers in

permitting the early release of material prepared for use

by the Committee at its hearings.

Ministers and Officials

61. Finally, the Committee thanks the officials who attended

and answered questions from the Committee. The Committee

also thanks the two Ministers who assisted at table,

Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Q.C. and Senator the

Hon. Peter Walsh.

62. During the early part of the Committee's hearings

Senator Evans addressed some unparliamentary remarks to a

member of the Committee. (Senate Estimates Hansard,

18 September 1986, page 246) The Minister's remarks were

offensive, not only to the Senator to whom they were

addressed, but to the Senate Committee of which that

Senator is a member. The words used were very discourteous

and unbecoming of a senior Minister of the Government.

Fortunately, they were quickly withdrawn on request by the

Chair. It is the sincere wish of the Committee that it be

allowed to perform its task on behalf of the Senate,

without discourtesy from any Minister.

63. The Committee takes this opportunity to remind Ministers

who assist at the table that it is only through the

courtesy, patience and tolerance of all involved in the

estimates hearings that this important parliamentary

scrutiny process can properly achieve the goals set down

248.

for it by the Senate. The courtesy, patience and tolerance

which characterises the Senate itself is also the standard

for the work of its Estimates Committees.

·>

Gordon McIntosh Chairman

Senate Estimates Committee E

October 1986

249 .

E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E E

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED

IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

INDEX OF ISSUES

DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCES AND ENERGY

Thursday 18 September 1986

Topic Page

Document A

Devaluation and Exchange Rates Fringe Benefits Tax Staff Preparation for Estimates Hospitality and Entertainment

Invalidity Retirements Contract/Casual Employees Stationery Youth Employment in Department

Staff Numbers Kakadu National Park

Coronation Hill-Mining

Uranium Mining and Markets Queensland Mines Ltd Coal Mining and Removal of Export Controls River Murray Commission

Management of Former Atomic Test Sites Compensation to Commonwealth Employees "Black Mist"

National Industrial Energy Management Scheme Ranger Uranium Project Assessor Common Law Actions Arising from Atomic Tests Energy Conservation by Departments and Agencies Compensation to Non-Commonwealth Employees Compensation to Department Employees Uranium Purchases from Queensland Mines Ltd

Coal Cooperation with China Review of AAEC and ANSTO Royal Commission into British Nuclear Tests in Australia

Governmental Mapping Authorities in Australia LANDSAT Atomic Energy Commission - Warship Monitoring

- Synroc - Isotope Production - Uranium Enrichment - Staffing Changes

- Transport of Spent Fuel Rods

232- 3

233- 4 234 234,236 234- 5

235- 6, 250-1 236 237 237 238-243, 247-8

242,243-4, 247- 8

244-7 248- 9

249- 50 251- 252 252- 3

253,254 253- 4

254- 5

255 255 256 256 256 257 257- 8

258

258 258- 260 260

260 260-1 261-2 262 262

262

253.

Joint Coal Board - Superannuation 262-3

- Staff Numbers 263

- FBT 263

- General Expenses 263

- Foreign Exchange Exposure 263

Pipeline Authority - Corrosion 264

- Supply of Natural Gas 264

- Future Strategies 264

- Energy 2000 Conference 264-65

- Agreement with AGL 265

- Other Capital Works 265

- Superannuation, Payroll Tax and Workers Compensation 265

- Volume of Natural Gas Haulage 265-6

Northern Territory Electricity Grant 266

International Atomic Energy Agency 266

Location of Ministerial Council Meetings 267 Storage of Radioactive Waste 267

Petroleum Royalties 267

254.

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

INDEX OF ISSUES

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Thursday 18 September 1986

Topic

Opening Statement - Format of Explanatory Notes - Outstanding Responses and Papers - Provision for Prospective Increases - Exchange Rate Variations - Changes in Accounting Arrangements SAS Regiment Service Conditions Officer Wastage Research Army Reserve

Exercise Resources Defence Service Home Loan Scheme Resignations Training & Recruitment Costs

Service Allowances Freeze-Dried Rations DSTO - Task-Splitting Woomera Rocket Range History

Fringe Benefits Tax Munitions & Weapons Defence Housing Contract Removalists Defence Force Retirement & Death Benefits Naval Project Assessments

Naval Professional Personel Career Structure Judgment Against Navy in 1985-86 Frigates Surplus Equipment

Aircraft Spares Estimates Air Force Project Assessments FA-18 Hornet Monitoring of Maintenance Internal Audit Waste

Singleton Firing Range - Noise Abatement Defence Expenditure

Contents of Budget Papers/Explanatory Notes Staff Preparation for Estimates Hearings Defence Munitions Cost Recovery Defence Mapping

269 269 269­

270 270 270, 270, 270 , 270, 287­

292­ 270 270 ,

271, 271 271, 271 271 271 271, 271,

271­ 272 272 272 272 272 272 272­

273 273 273 273

273 273 273­ 279­

276 276 276­

277-

282,292 292 292 285,

91 3

293 282,294,

293

273,296-7 272 2

3

5,276, 80

255 .

Leave 280

Invalidity Retirements 280-1

Contract/Casual Employees 281

Allowances 281-2

Re-engagement Bounty 282

Compensation Payments 282

Effect of Resignations 282-3

RAAF Pilot Numbers 283-5,287

Wastage of Defence Forces Personnel 285-6,286-7

Recruiting 286,289

Female Wastage - RAAF 286,287

Army Reserve Strength 287,291

Army Reserve Advertising 287-9,290

Army Reserve Wastage 289,290,291

Integration of Army Reserves 289,290

Reduction in First Appointment Training 289,290

Naval Reserve Strength 290

Army Reserve Earnings 290-1

Career Structure in Procurement Function 291

Follow-up Procedures for Reports 291

Administration of Foreign Military Sales Program 291 Proof & Experimental Establishment, Port Wakefieldi 291 Project Proposals to Force Structure Committee 291 Telemetry at Woomera 291

Payment of Army Reservists 292-3

Civilian Staffing 294

Defence Air Fares 294

Energy Costs 294-5

Advertising 295

Increase in Commercial Type Expenditure 295-6

Increase in Incidental Expenditure 295-6

Environmental Studies - Jervis Bay 297,304

Movement of Fleet Base to Jervis Bay 297-8

Use of Cobar for Manoeuvre Area 298

Closure of Anzac Rifle Range 298-300

Road Freight Costs 300

Kangaroo '86 300

Woolwich Military Exercises 300

Estimates of Casualties in Conventional Warfare 301 Disposal of Surplus Equipment 301

Support to Aero Clubs 301

Computer Services Support 301-2

Port Wakefield - Outside Consultancy Contract 302 Financial Management Systems in Defence Establishments 302

Munitions Inventory Shortfalls 302-3

Public Opinion Survey 303

Service Recruiting Advertising 303

Environmental Management of Beecroft Peninsula 303

Withdrawal of Three LCH's 303-4

Environmental Studies 304

Patents 304

Major Equipment Projects 304

256.

Meteorological Services 304

Navigational Aids 304

National Safety Council 304

Natural Disasters Organisation 304

Woomera Village 304

Personal Injury Claims 304-5

HMAS Voyager Claims 305

Payments to NSW University for ADFA 305-6

Warnbro Unexploded Ordnance Clearance Project 306 Increased Costs of FA-18s Due to Devaluation 306 FFG Frigates 306,307

Underway Replenishment Ship 306-7

Replacement Minehunters 307

Survey Motor Launches 307

Construction of Fifth Frigate 307

Submarine Project 307-9

PC9 Aircraft 309-10

Tuesday 23 September 1986

Hospitality and Entertainment Costs PC9 Aircraft Unsolicited Proposal from Milisair Aircraft FA-18 Aircraft Wamira Project

Retirement of Mirages Electronic Warfare Systems Combat Surveillance Equipment FlllC Avionics

Armoured Personel Carriers Reports from US General Accounting Office Auditor-General's Report Contractor Control Procedures Assessment of Contractors Project Logistic Support

Potential for Project Overruns Small Arms Project Civilian Staffing Resignations

Training and Recruitment Costs Munitions Freeze-Dried Rations DSTO - Task-Splitting Woomera Rocket Range History

Defence Housing Submarine Project Aircraft Non-Project Modifications Security at Munitions Factories Theft of Munitions and Firearms Ammunition and Explosives Operational Deployment Force

Man-Hour Rate Liquid Fuels and Lubricants - Costing 2

654 654- 5,657 655 655- 6

656- 7

657 657 658 658 658-61 661,662 661-2, 662-3 662 662 662

663 663 663 663-4

663-4 664 6 6 4-5 665 665 665 6 6 5-6 666 666-7, 668 666- 7,668-9 667- 8

668 668, 669 669-70

2 57 .

Price Basis for Estimates 670, 674

Fuel Oil Cost Forecast 670

Fuel Oil Contracts 670

Effect on Services of Increases in Cost of Fuel 670 FFG Frigate Fuel 670

Quantity of Fuels Purchased 671

Reserve Stores of Fuels 671

Preparation of Future Estimates Papers 671

Hire of Search and Rescue Helicopters 671-2

Currency Flying 672-3

Hire of Private Aircraft 673

No. 34 Squadron 673-4

Excise Value of Fuel 674

Coordination Between Defence Stores 674-5

Garden Island Tendering Process 675

Staff Reductions at Garden Island & Williamstown 675 Misappropriation of Goods at Garden Island 675 Project Control Methods at Garden Island 675

Material Management at Williamstown 675-6

Idle Capacity at Dockyards 676

Army's Land at Woolwich 676

Proposed Movement of No. 9 Squadron to Townsville 676-7,679 Building Work at Singleton 677,679

Movement of Defence Purchasing Department 677 Nomad Aircraft Given to Indonesia 677

Topography Survey - Indonesia 677

Maintenance of Indonesian C130 Engines 677

Grants to ASEAN 677-8

Mobile Photographic Laboratory - Indonesia 678 Exclusive Economic Zone Base Point Survey Project 678 Government Aircraft Factories 678-9

Relocation of Bruce Highway, Townsville 679

Expansion in Buildings and Work Program 679

Repairs and Maintenance 679

Defence Force Retirement and Death Benefits 679-80

258.

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

INDEX OF ISSUES

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Tuesday 23 September 1986

Topic Page

Opening Statement - Overall Departmental Expenditure 681,683

- Overseas Representation 681

- Progress in Departmental Performance 681-2

Hospitality and Entertainment 682

Invalidity Retirements 682

Contract/Casual Employees 682

Stationery 682

Fringe Benefits Tax 682-3,

684,686

Reduction in Budget Attributable to Devaluation and FBT 683

Staff Preparation for Estimates Hearing 683-4

Reclassification of Positions 684

Withdrawals from Overseas Representation 684-5

Cost of Peace Officers 685

Head of Mission/Head of Post Representation Allowances 685

Cost of Australia Day Functions 685

Representation in Lebanon 684,685

Increased Embassy Costs 685

Closure of Embassies 685-6

Hiring of Potplants 686

Hiring of Works of Art 686

Impact of Devaluation on Costs Overall 686

Australia-Japan Foundation 686,691

706

Australia Abroad Program - Cultural Program for Vietnam 686-9

International Conferences 689

UNESCO 690

Australian Ambassador to UNESCO 690

International Atomic Energy Agency 690

UN Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus 690

International Year of Peace 690-1,

691-2

International Institute of Strategic Studies 691 Analytical Equipment (Chemical Weapons Convention) 691 Australian Secret Intelligence Service 692

ADAB - Emergency Humanitarian Assistance 693,706

- Effect of "Buy Australian" Campaign on ADAB 693-4 - Impact of Devaluation on ADAB Budget 694,695

- Increase in Administration Expenses 694

- Fringe Benefits Tax 694

259 .

- Reduction in Budget Attributable to FBT and Devaluation 695

- Increase in Travel and Subsistence 695

- Evaluation of Programs 695

- Import of Australian Meat and Livestock 695-6

- Hiring of Potplants 696

- Funding of New School in Nicaragua 696

- Funding of Projects in Latin America 696-7

- Termination Payments - Overseas Officers of Former Administrations 697

- Papua New Guinea - Tied Aid Projects 697,698

- PNG Government Priorities 697-8

- Impact of Aid on Australian Exports to PNG 698 - Aid to Philippines 698

- Areas of Aid Decreases 698

- Regional Bilateral Projects 699

- Bilateral Projects - Africa 699-700

- Bilateral Projects - Philippines 700

- Bilateral Assistance to South Pacific 700

- Environmental Impact Statements in Relation to Bilateral Aid 700

- Development Import Grants 700-1

- Response to Reductions in Aid 701

- Reduced Aid to Indonesia 701-2

- Impact of Reduced Aid: Internally and on External Balances 702

- World Food Program 702,705

- Development Import Finance Facility 702

- Participation in International Financial Institutions 702-3

- Transmigration Programs - Asian Development Bank 703

- Clearing of Tropical Forests 703

- Reductions to Div. 318.4.07 703-4

- African Development Bank 704

- ADAB Sponsored Students 704

- Bilateral Grain Program 704,705

- Cuts in Aid to Non-Government Organisations 704-5,705 - International Development Program of Australian Universities and Colleges 705

- Private Overseas Students Charges - South Pacific 705

- Contribution to Education of Students from Developing Countries 705

- International Non-Government Organisations 705 - UN Development Program 705

- UN High Commissioner for Refugees 706

- UNICEF 706

- UN Fund for Population Activities 706

- Contribution to UN and Specialised Agency Programs 706

- Regional Programs and Organisations 706

- Development Education and Information 706

- Development Studies and Research 706

- Special Assistance to Southern Africa 706

260.

SE N A T E E S T I M A T E S C O M M I T T E E E

INDEX OF ISSUES

ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

Tuesday 23 September 1986

Topic Page

Effect of Devaluation and Fringe Benefits Tax 707-8 Increase in Staff Years 708

RSI 708

Legal Services Group, Melbourne 708,709

Invalidity Retirements 709

Contract/Casual Employees 709

Stationery 709

Fringe Benefits Tax 709-10

Staff Preparation for Estimates Hearing 710 Entertainment Allowances 710-1

Australian Institute of Judicial Administration 711 Legal Costs Assistance in Special Circumstances Cases 711-2,714-5

Legal Costs Assistance in Royal Commission -and Inquiries Cases 712

Legal Costs Assistance to Mr Justice Murphy 712-3 DPP Decision to Initiate Proceedings Against Mr Justice Murphy 713-4,715

Commonwealth Employees' Compensation 715

NSW Council for Civil Liberties 715

Resolution of Jurisdictional Conflicts by Cross-Vesting 716

Grants to Marriage Counselling Organisations 716 Reimbursements to States for Services Under the Family Law Act 716-7

Australian Legal Aid Office 717

Human Rights Commission 717-8,719

Law Reform Commission 718

Office of the Parliamentary Counsel 718-9

Secretary's Travelling Allowance 719-20

Solicitor-General's Travelling Allowance 720 Travelling Allowance for Director of the Australian Institute of Family Studies 720 Travel by DPP 720

261 .

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

INDEX OF ISSUES

DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER

Tuesday 23 September 1986

Topic

Staff Preparation for Estimates Hearings Effect of Devaluation and Fringe Benefits Tax New Parliament House Executive Unit Management Wing Review of ADP Services New Awards for Australian Honours System Security for Ministerial Communications Relocation of ADP Bureau Consultancies Conferences and Seminars

Invalidity Retirements Contract/Casual Employees Stationery Hospitality and Entertainment Fringe Benefits Tax

Friday 26 September 1986

Fringe Benefits Tax Consultancies Conferences and Seminars Devaluation Hospitality and Entertainment Invalidity Retirements Contract/Casual Employees

Stationery New Parliament House Executive Wing Management Unit Staff Preparation for Estimates Hearings National Police Research Unit Australian Police College Grants for Non-Government International

Conferences Remuneration Tribunal - Definitions of Benefits

- 1 Principal Place of Residence1 Issue of National Symbols Australian Federal Police - Fringe Benefits Tax

- Internal Fares - Closure of Wollongong Office - Inquiries into Activities of AFP

OF STATE

Page

721 721- 22

722,724 722- 3

723 723 723- 4

724 724 725.728 725,728,729 725- 6,728,729 726.728 726- 8

1006-1012,1013 1012 1012- 3 1013 1013 1013- 4 1013-4 1013- 4

1014 1014 1014- 5 1015

1015,1018

1015- 6 1016- 9,1039 1018

1019,1022 1019 1019-20 1020

2 6 2 .

- Airport Security - AFP Staff Numbers - Retirements and Resignations - Recruitment - Financial Resources

- Coastal Protection Unit - Relocation of National and Queensland Headquarters - Office Space, Sydney - Arson Research - Invalidity Retirements Australian Bureau of Criminal Intelligence

- Cooperation Between States and AFP - Computer Resources - Staffing Resources Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Services - Salaries and Allowances - Supply of Computer Facilities to

Electorate Offices - Computer Equipment for New Parliament House - Liaison with Parliamentary Departments - Compatibility of Computer Equipment - Overtime of Electorate Staff - Consultants - Electorate Office Security - Ministerial Visits Abroad

- RAAF VIP Fleet - Effect of Devaluation on Overseas Visits Australian Electoral Commission - Comparison of Costs

- Salaries for Habitation Reviews - Joint Electoral Rolls - Habitation Reviews - Inaccuracies in Electoral Rolls - Effects of the Proposed Australia Card - Eligibility of Voters - Prosecutions and Penalties - Payment to Australia Post for Electoral

Roll Review - NSW Redistribution of State Electoral Boundaries - Overtime - Electoral Education Programs - Staff Increases

- Information Service to Aboriginal Voters - Consultants - Requirement to Vote - Forms and Equipment Grants Commission

- Activities - State Relativities Royal Commissions and Enquiries - Outstanding Expenses

1020 1020-1 1021 1021 1021

1021

1021-2 1022 1022 1022

1022- 3 1023 1023

1023

1023- 4

1024 1024 1024- 5

1025 1025 1025- 6 1026

1026 1026

1026 1026- 7 1027 1027,1028,1029 1027,1029,1031 1028 1028 1028- 9,1033

1029- 30

1030- 1 1031 1031- 2 1032

1032 1032- 3 1033- 4 1034

1034- 5 1034-5

1035

263 .

- Current Royal Commissions 1035

- Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry 1035 - Costs of Royal Commission into British Nuclear Tests in Australia 1035

- Task Force to Review Defence Force and Australian Public Service Housing Programs 1035-6

National Crime Authority - References 1036

- Evidence and Materials from Royal Commissions 1036-7

- Results Pursuant to Costigan Royal Commission Referrals 1037

- Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry 1037 - Age Tapes 1038

- Computer Facilities 1038

- Members' Terms 1038-9

- Resources 1039

- Cooperation with Other Law Enforcement Agencies 1039

- Continuation of the Existence of the NCA 1039 - Staffing 1039

- Protection of Witnesses 1039

Crisis Policy Centre 1040

Australian Federal Police - Exchange Rate Variations 1040

Security of Ministerial and Electorate Offices' Telephone Systems 1040-1

Review of Material Relating to the Entry of Suspected War Criminals into Australia 1041

264 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THE SENATE

FRIDAY, 22 AUGUST 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OP PROCEEDINGS

No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.45pm in Senate Committee Room 5, Senator G.D. McIntosh in the Chair.

2. MEMBERSHIP: Entries were reported in the Journals of the Senate of 26 March 1985, 22 August 1985, 20 March 1986 and 21 August 1986 appointing the Committee, and 22 August 1986

referring to the particulars of proposed expenditure for service of the year ending 30 June 1987, the particulars of certain proposed expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1987 and the expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for

Finance for the year ended 30 June 1986 for the following

Departments:

Resources and Energy '

Defence Foreign Affairs (including ADAB) Attorney-General' s Special Minister of State

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE (1986-87): The Committee resolved to examine the Departmental Estimates in the following order:

Resources and Energy Defence Foreign Affairs (including ADAB) Attorney-General's

Special Minister of State

4. TIMETABLE OF HEARINGS: It was agreed by the Committee that the Departments of Resources and Energy and Defence be

considered on Thursday 18 September 1986, and that the remaining departments be advised to appear before the Committee on 23 September 1986. 2

2 67 .

5. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE: The Committee discussed the advantages of members providing to the Secretary their general areas of questioning which could be relayed to departments to facilitate

the Estimates hearings by ensuring the presence of well-briefed officers.

6. IN CAMERA EVIDENCE: The Committee discussed the procedure in regard to the taking of evidence in camera from the Department of Defence. The Committee came to no conclusions on this matter.

7. RELEASE OP DOCUMENTS AND WRITTEN ANSWERS: On the motion of Senator MacGibbon, it was agreed that the Chairman be authorised to release documents tabled in the Committee and written answers provided subsequent to meetings of the Committee.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting was adjourned at 1.55pm until 11.30am on Thursday 18 September 1986 in the Senate Chamber.

9. ATTENDANCE: Senator G.D. McIntosh Senator T. Aulich Senator the Hon Sir John Carrick Senator D.J. MacGibbon

10. APOLOGIES: Senator J.R. Black

Senator M. Baume

Confirmed:

G.D. McIntosh Chairman

268.

THE SENATE

THURSDAY, 18 SEPTEMBER 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12 noon in the Senate Chamber. Senator McIntosh took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIR: The Chairman reported the resolution of the Resolution of the Senate on 22 August 1986, and made a

statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the

Committee in its examination of the Estimates.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCES AND ENERGY

In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC, Minister for Resources and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:

Depa rtment_of_Resources_and_Ene r.gy

Mr B.J. Hill, Deputy Secretary Mr G.C. Gorrie, First Assistant Secretary, Coordination and Management Division Mr P. Ryan, First Assistant Secretary, Coal and Minerals

Division

Mr A.C. Smart, First Assistant Secretary, Water and Energy Conservation Division Mr J.C. Starkey, First Assistant Secretary, Petroleum Division Mr W.G. McGregor, First Assistant Secretary, Nuclear and

International Division Dr A.G. Christie, Director, Bureau of Resource Economics Mr M. Lawrence, Assistant Secretary, Industry Operations Branch Mr R. Hopkins, Assistant Secretary, Research, Policy and

Programs Branch Dr K.D. Lyall, Assistant Secretary, Coal and Alternative Energy Branch Mr L.B. Devin, Assistant Secretary, Water Research and Programs

Branch

Mr R. Layland, Assistant Secretary, Energy Conservation Branch 2

2 6 9 .

Mr A. A. Garran, Assistant Secretary, Test Site Management and Investigations Branch Mr A.R. Haydock, Principal Executive Officer, Energy Conservation and Electricity Branch Mr N.S. Jennings, Principal Executive Officer, Industry Branch Mr P. Davoren, Executive Officer, Nuclear Affairs Branch Prof R.W.R. Rutland, Director, Bureau of Mineral Resources,

Geology and Geophysics Mr L.C. Ranford, First Assistant Director, Resource Assessment Division, Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics Dr J.F. Truswell, Assistant Director, Planning and Programs

Branch, Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics Mr C. Veenstra, Director, Division of National Mapping

Australian Atomic Energy Commission

Dr D.G. Walker, Chief Executive Officer and Director, Research Establishment Mr W.H. Ratcliff, Secretary/Manager, Administration

The_Pipeline_Authority

Mr T.R. Baker, Executive Member Mr G.R. Jones, Finance Manager

The River Murray Commission

Mr G.N. Flowers, Manager, Administration

Department of Finance

Mr H.C. Campbell, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr M. Rombouts, Transport and Industry Division 4

4. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Resources and Energy, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional

information.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

In attendance: Senator the Honourable P.A. Walsh, Minister for Finance representing the Minister for Defence, accompanied by the following officers:

Divisions: 520-523, 525 $147,129,000 (Document A) $144,640,000 (Document B) 942-944 520, 522, 943 $1,279,725 (Document D)

270.

Department of Defence:

Mr J.M. Moten, Deputy Secretary B Mr R. Andrew, Assistant Secretary, Project Coordination (Computing Services) Mr R.K. Bain, Acting Assistant Secretary, Financial Programs Mr G.E. Barlow, Deputy Chief Defence Scientist Cdre A.L. Beaumont, Assistant Chief of the Defence Force

(Policy)

Mr M.J. Cassells, Director-General, Defence Housing Mr L.A. Davey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Facilities Management Mr K. Dean, Director, Budget and Financial Services Defence Academy Cdre J. Dickson, Director-General, Naval Policy and Plans

Mr R.K. Ellis, Assistant Director, Natural Disasters Organisation (Policy and Support) Mr R.H. Englund, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements Mr R.B. Finnegan, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Maj Gen D.M.M.Francis, Chief of Materiel - Army Mr K.A. Goffey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Supply Policy Branch Cdre K.A. Gulliver, Director-General, Recruiting Mr G.J. Hansen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning

- Navy

Mr K.A. Harris, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Production Development Mr D. Hawke, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning - Army AVM A.E. Heggen, Chief of Air Force, Materiel Mr P.A. Hemsley, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology

Administration Brig B.W. Howard, Director-General, Operations and Plans - Army Cdre A.L. Hunt, Acting Chief of Naval Materiel Mr P.R. Huntley, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning - Air

Force

Mr M.H. Ives, First Assistant Secretary, Programs and Budgets Mr R.J. Kinsella, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Financial Services and Internal Audit Cdre P.H. James, Director-General, Service Conditions Cdre I.D.G.McDougall, Director-General, Joint Operations and

Plans

Mr L.A. McGee, Assistant Secretary, Quality Assurance, Technical Services and Standardization Mr A.R. McLeod, Chief Executive Officer, Program Coordination Dr M.K. McIntosh, First Assistant Secretary, Defence Industrial

and Material Policy Mr J.E. McMahon, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Commercial Services Mr K. Moran, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning -

Cent ral

Mr M.L. Murdoch, Director, Logistic Resources Programs Mr M.J. Murray, Special Adviser, Resources Procurement Mr J.A. Nockels, Senior Assistant Secretary, International Policy

Mr P.M. Oldham, Director, Finance and General Services Air Cdre C.J. Prior, Director-General, Operations Air Force

271 .

Mr W.F. Sheehan, Acting Assistant Secretary, Budget Accounting and Supply (ODP) Mr K.J. Slattery, Senior Executive Officer, Estimates and Expenditure Control Mr R.W. Taylor, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Munitions Mr A.F. Viney, Chief Executive Officer, Financial Programs Mr D.A. Whitty, Assistant Secretary, Logistic Resources and

Development Mr L.J. Wrigley, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Defence Industry Development Capt D. York, Acting Director-General, Fleet Maintenance

Department of Finance

Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr B. Van Dijk, Senior Finance Officer, Defence and General Government Division

6. TABLING AND INCORPORATION OF DOCUMENTS: Answers to questions on notice by Senators MacGibbon, Garrick and Vigor at the April Estimates hearings were tabled by the Department of Defence, as well as (i) a study into the cost-effectiveness of the practice of sub-contracting target-towing requirements; (ii) the results of a study of the reasons for officer wastage in the Army

Reserve; and (iii) a paper on Army Reserve advertising.

7. At 5.33pm Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC, resumed representation of the Minister for Defence.

8. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions: 230, 232-234 - $6,329,722,000 (Document A)

9. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.31pm until 3.30pm on Tuesday 23 September 1986.

10. ATTENDANCE: Senator McIntosh (Chairman) and Senators Aulich, M. Baume, Black, Car rick and MacGibbon. Senators Archer, Crichton-Browne, Durack, Harradine, Kilgariff, Puplick, Vigor and Withers also attended.

Confirmed:

G.D. McIntosh CMlirnsn

272 .

THE SENATE

TUESDAY, 23 SEPTEMBER 1986

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 3.30pm in the Senate Chamber. Senator McIntosh took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE:

Consideration resumed from 18 September 1986.

!n_attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC , Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Minister of Defence, accompanied by the following officers:

Qepartment_of_Defence

Mr J.M. Moten, Deputy Secretary B Mr R. Andrew, Assistant Secretary, Project Coordination (Computing Services) Mr R.K. Bain, Acting Assistant Secretary, Financial Programs Mr G.E. Barlow, Deputy Chief Defence Scientist Cdre A.L. Beaumont, Assistant Chief of the Defence Force

(Policy)

Mr M.J. Cassells, Director-General, Defence Housing Mr L.A. Davey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Facilities Management Mr K. Dean, Director, Budget and Financial Services, Defence

Academy

Cdre J. Dickson, Director-General, Naval Policy and Plans Mr R.K. Ellis, Assistant Director, Natural Disasters Organiation (Policy and Support) Mr R.H. Englund, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy

and Requirements Maj Gen D.M.M. Francis, Chief of Materiel - Army Mr K.A. Goffey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Supply Policy Branch Cdre K.A. Gulliver, Director-General, Recruiting

Mr G.J. Hansen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning - Navy Mr D. Hawke, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning - Army AVM A.E. Heggen, Chief of Air Force Materiel Mr P.A. Hemsley, Assistant Secretary, Science and

Technology Administration

273 .

Brig B.W. Howard, Director-General, Operations and Plans - Army Mr J.L. Hulbert, Director, Quality Assurance Implementation Cdre A.L. Hunt, Acting Chief Naval Material Mr P.R. Huntley, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning -

Air Force Mr M.H. Ives, First Assistant Secretary, Programs and Budgets Cdre P.H. James, Director-General, Service Conditions Mr B.J. Kelly, Senior Executive Officer, Estimates Management Mr R.J. Kinsella, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Financial Services and Internal Audit Mr L.E. Ludovici, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Cdre I.D.G. McDougall, Director-General, Joint Operations and Plans Dr M.K. McIntosh, First Assistant Secretary, Defence Industrial

and Material Policy Mr J.E. McMahon, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Commercial Services Mr K. Moran, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning

- Central Mr M.L. Murdoch, Director, Logistic Resources Programs Mr M.J. Murray, Special Adviser, Resources Procurement Mr J .A. Nockels, Senior Assistant Secretary, International

Policy

Mr P.M. Oldham, Director, Finance and General Services Air Cdre C.J. Prior, Director-General, Operations Air Force Mr K.J. Slattery, Senior Executive Officer, Estimates and Expenditure Control Mr N.J. Rogers, Acting Special Adviser, Production Mr A. Toohey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Budget Accounting

and Supply (ODP) Mr A.F. Viney, Chief Executive Officer, Financial Programs Mr D.A. Whitty, Assistant Secretary, Logistic Resources and

Development Mr L.J. Wrigley, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Defence Industry Development Capt D. York, Acting Director-General, Fleet Maintenance

D§B!l£â„¢ent_of_Finance_L

Mr B.Van Dijk, Senior Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

3. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions: 234, 237, 239-41, 244-50, 252 - $3,971,475,000 (Document A) 232,233 - $233,658 (Document D)

274 .

The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Defence, subject to

undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS, INCLUDING THE AUSTRALIAN DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE BUREAU

In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC, Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

2egartment_pf_Foreign_Affaijs

Mr P.J. Flood, Deputy Secretary Mr J.H. Brook, First Assistant Secretary, Legal and Consular Division Mr D.C. Goss, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate

Management Division Mr R.A. Walker, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Executive Planning Defence and Nuclear Division Mr R.C. Smith, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Corporate

Management Division Mr G. Brady, Assistant Secretary, General Economic Branch Mr R. Broinowski, Assistant Secretary, Economic Relations Branch Mr L.G. Cook, Assistant Secretary, Systems Development Branch Mr M.J. Dan, Senior Adviser, Economic Organisations Branch Mr G.E.C. Gibson, Assistant Secretary, Resources and Liaison

Branch

Mr G. Harber, Assistant Secretary, Security & Communications Branch Mr B.J. Hickey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Personnel and General Services Branch Mr J.L. Mahoney, Acting Chief of Protocol, Protocol Branch Mr C.E. McDonald, Assistant Secretary, Americas Branch Mrs T.L. Shand, Assistant Secretary, Peace and Disarmament

Branch

Mr R.D. Sturkey, Assistant Secretary, South Asia, Africa and Middle East Branch Ms I. Svenne, Acting Assistant Secretary, South East Asia Branch Mr R.E. Little, Executive Director, Australia-China Council Mr N. Allanson, Director, Passports Policy Section Mr D. Connors, Director, Consular Policy Section Mr A.J. Deacon, Head, Cultural Exchanges Section Mr D.J. Fisher, Head, Indonesia Section

Mr M. Fitzpatrick, Director, Budget and Resources Section Mr G. Forrester, Head, UN Political Section Mr D.J. Harris, Director, Information & General Systems Section

Mr J. Lovegrove, Director, Technical Services Section Mr K. Oakman, Director, Diplomatic Security Section Mr E. Simon, Head, New Zealand Section

275 .

Mr J . Stevenson, Head, Academic Exchanges/S.0.V.F. Section Mr K. Ward, Head, Korea Sub-Section Mr H. Leece, Executive Officer, Human Resources Sub-Section Mr G. Thompson, Executive Officer, Financial Resources

Sub-Section

Australian Development Assistance Bureau

Dr R.M.B. Dun, Director-General Dr R.C. Manning, Deputy Director-General, Community, Commercial and International Programs Division Mr G.L. Lawless, Acting Deputy Director-General, Country

Programs Division Mr T. Kanaley, Acting Deputy Director-General, Policy, Planning & Management Division Mr M.R. Casson, Assistant Director-General, Asia, Africa

and Bilateral Coordination Branch Mr K.W. Aspinall, Acting Assistant Director-General, South East Asia Branch Mr E. Ingevics, Assistant Director-General, Community

Programs & Students Branch Mr R.E. Stensholt, Assistant Director-General, Financial & Resource Management Branch Mr L. Engel, Acting Assistant Director-General, Contracts

& Commercial Programs Branch Mr B. Davis, Director, Corporate Planning, Budget & Effectiveness Review Section Mr A.S. Connor, Acting Director, Thailand, Philippines &

Malaysia Section Mr G. Quayle, Clerical Administrative Class 9, Student Issues Section Mr I. Anderson, Director, Commercial Programs & Business

Liaison Section Mr E.M. Latham, Director, Bilateral Planning Coordination & Review Section Mr A.M. Vale, Director, NGO Programs & Liaison Section Mr F. Wojtaszak, Acting Director, Finance, Accounting &

Management Support Section Mrs A. Roppola

Australian_Centre_for_International_Ag£icultural_Research

Dr J. Ryan, Acting Director, Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research Mr A. Blewett, Secretary, Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research

Department_of_Finance

Ms M. Brennan, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management & Accounting Policy Division Ms W. Fisher, Chief Finance Officer, Defence & Government Division

276 .

5. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions: 315, 317-319 - $1,111,670,000 (Document A) 873, 875 - $3,839,000 (Document B)

315, 316, 318 -$3,762,734 (Document D)

The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 -

ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC, Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department

Mr L.G. Glare, Deputy Secretary Mr L.J. Curtis, Deputy Secretary Mr T.A. Sherman, Deputy Secretary Mr R. St. John, Deputy Secretary Mr J.L.M. Carnsew, First Assistant Secretary, Management

Division

Mr P.R. Loof, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Community Affairs Division Mr P.G. Levy, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Business Affairs Division Mr D. Edwards, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice

and Administrative Law Division Mr J. Wood, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Consumer Affairs Mr H. Woltring, First Assistant Secretary, Criminal Law

and Security Division Dr R. Bell, Senior Assistant Secretary, Freedom of Information Branch Mr R.J. Morgan, Senior Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch Mr C. Creswell, Senior Assistant Secretary, Projects Branch Mr E.M. Haddrick, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Legal

Aid Branch Mr I. Astolfi, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Financial Assistance Branch Mr B. Wisener, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office of Consumer

Affairs

Mr P.E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch D.R. Maxwell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch R.I. Thomas, Director, Marriage and Grants Section Mr T.N. Heming, Assistant Secretary, ADP Branch Mr R. Smeaton, Assistant Secretary, Management Improvement

Branch

277 .

Mr A.T. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Mr J. Mikelsons, Director, Bankruptcy Branch Mr J.M. Hyndes, Registrar, Security Appeals Tribunal Mr J. Howard, Registrar, Federal Court of Australia Mr W. Johnston, Acting Principal Registrar, Family Court of

Australia Mr R. Byrne, Acting Registrar, Administrative Appeals Tribunal Mr P. Dingwall, Registrar, ACT Courts Office Mr A.A. Hardiman, Acting Director, Legal Aid Commission

(ACT)

Mr H. Spier, First Assistant Commissioner, Trade Practices Commission Mr R. Schoer, Executive Director, National Companies and Securities Commission Mr D. Keane, Deputy Director, Institute of Family Studies Mr P.H. Bailey, Deputy Chairperson, Human Rights Commission Mr J.F. Thomson, Secretary, Human Rights Commission Mr D. Biles, Deputy Director, Australian Institute of

Criminology Mr S. Mason, Acting Secretary & Director Research, Law Reform Commission Mrs D. Higgins, Assistant Director, Office of the Director

of Public Prosecutions Mr G.C. Shannon, Clerk of Court, High Court of Australia Mr I. Turnbull, First Parliamentary Counsel, Office of Parliamentary Counsel Mr I. Cunliffe, Secretary, Constitutional Commission Mr R. Venables, Acting Director, Finance

Department of Finance

Mr T. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr G. Ryle, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

7. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions: 165, 170, 175, 177-181, 184-191 - $247,499,000 (Document A) 818-821 - $57,108,000 (Document B) 165, 178, 180., 190 - $241,937 (Document D)

The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Attorney-General's Department, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

278.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE

In attendance: Senator the Honourable G.J. Evans, QC, Minister for Resources and Energy representing the Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Special M inister of State

Mr Roger Holdich, Deputy Secretary Mr Warren McCann, First Assistant Secretary, Law Enforcement Policy Division (or Acting Deputy Secretary) Mr Hugh Logue, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and

General Division Mr Mac MacKenzie-Orr, Head Protective Services Coordination Centre Mr Mark Lynch, First Assistant Secretary, Executive

Secretariat Mr John Gavin, Senior Assistant Secretary, Operations Unit Mr Roger Webb, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Parliament House Executive Wing Unit Ms Chris Bee, Assistant Secretary, General Policy Branch Mr John Atkinson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Organised

Crime Policy Branch Mr Bruce Major, Assistant Secretary, Executive Projects Unit Mr Alan Watson, Assistant Secretary, ADP Branch Mr Alan Cooley, Director, Budgeting and Information Ms Jill Sheppard, Acting Assistant Secretary, Portfolio

Resource Allocation Board

Commonwealth Grants Commission

Mr Tony Glasson, Secretary

Remuneration T ribunal

Mr Alan Shakespeare, Secretary

Australian Bureau of C riminal Intelligence

Assistant Commissioner Alan Watt, Director

Australian Federal Police

Mr Steve Gavin, Secretary to the AFP Mr John Ireland, Assistant Secretary, Resources Mr Michael Bonney, Director, Staff Budgeting Deputy Commissioner Roy Farmer, QPM, Investigation Chief Superintendent Dick Dixon, Coastal Protection Unit

279 .

National Crime Authority

Mr Gary Linnane, Acting Chief Executive Officer Mr David Forsyth, Director, Finance and Services

Australian Electoral Commission

Mr Andre Cirulus, Deputy Commissioner Mr Brian Friend, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Management Mr John Mahoney, Assistant Commissioner, Information and

Education Branch Mr David Farrell, Director, Operations

Department of Finance

Mr T. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr T. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

9. The Chairman called on the following Division for

consideration:

Division : 575 - $19,313,400 (Document A)

10. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.47pm until 8.30am on Friday 26 September 1986.

11. ATTENDANCE: Senator McIntosh (Chairman) and Senators Aulich, M. Baume, Black, Carrick and MacGibbon. Senators Alston, Archer, Brownhill, Durack and Harradine also attended.

Confirmed:

G.D. McIntosh Chairman

280.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 4

FRIDAY 26 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.30am in the Senate chamber. Senator McIntosh took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE:

Consideration resumed from 23 September 1986.

In attendance: Senator the Honourable P.A. Walsh/ Minister for Finance representing the Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Special Minister of State

Mr Warren McCann, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr Hugh Logue, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and General Division Mr Mac MacKenzie-Orr, Head Protective Services Coordination

Centre

Mr Mark Lynch, First Assistant Secretary, Executive Secretariat Mr John Gavin, Senior Assistant Secretary, Operations Unit Mr Roger Webb, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Parliament House Executive Wing Unit Ms Chris Bee, Assistant Secretary, General Policy Branch Mr John Atkinson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Organised

Crime Policy Branch Mr Bruce Major, Assistant Secretary, Executive Projects Unit Mr Alan Watson, Assistant Secretary ADP Branch Mr Alan Cooley, Director, Budgeting and Information Ms Jill Sheppard, Acting Assistant Secretary, Portfolio

Resource Allocation Board

Commonwealth Grants Commission Mr Tony Glasson, Secretary

Bureau of Criminal Intelligence Assistant Commissioner Alan Watt, Director

281 .

Australian Federal Police Mr John Ireland, Assistant Secretary, Resources Deputy Commissioner Roy Farmer, QPM, Investigation Chief Superintendent Dick Dixon, Coastal Protection Unit

Nat i o n a I _ £ r i r a e _ A u t h o r i t y Mr Gary Linnane, Acting Chief Executive Officer Mr David Forsyth, Director, Finance and Services

Australian Electoral Commission Mr Andre Cirulus, Deputy Commissioner Mr Brian Friend, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Management Mr John Mahoney, Assistant Commissioner, Information and

Education Branch Mr David Farrell, Director, Operations

Q§BSrtmeQt_o£_Finance Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr M. Fleeton, Chief Finance Officer, Defence and Government

Division

3. The Chairman called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions: 575-583 - $278,939,000 (Document A) 953, 955 - $10,592,000 (Document B) 577, 582, 583 - $181,248 (Document D)

The Committee concluded its examination of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of the Special Minister of State, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.21am.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senator McIntosh (Chairman) and Senators Aulich, M. Baume, Black and Carrick. Senator Archer also attended.

6. APOLOGY: Senator MacGibbon.

Confirmed:

G.D. McIntosh Chairman

282 .

THE S E N A T E

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 5

TUESDAY 14 OCTOBER 1986

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.40pm in Committee Room 1/2. Senator McIntosh took the Chair.

2. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: On the motion of Senator MacGibbon the Committee agreed to adopt the Chairman's draft report to the Senate, subject to the correction of typographical errors and omissions; the correction of the percentages referred to in the Senators' Information Systems section; and the inclusion of the

figure in relation to Army Mapping Costs or the redrafting of that sentence if the figure is not received.

3. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: On the motion of Senator MacGibbon, the minutes of the private meeting on 22 August 19 86 and the minutes of the public hearings on 18 September 1986,

23 September 1986 and 26 September 1986 were confirmed.

4. TIME FOR ADEQUATE EXAMINATION: The Committee discussed generally the need for the Committee, which scrutinises such large spending departments, to have more time to complete an adequate examination of those departments.

The Committee also discussed generally the problem of questions on notice from Senators, particularly those who are not members of the Committee, and the implications of this questioning for the Committee and departments.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 7.00pm.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senator G.D. McIntosh (Chairman) Senator J.R. Black Senator the Hon Sir John Carrick Senator D.J. MacGibbon

7. APOLOGIES: Senator T. Aulich Senator M. Baume

Certified Correct:

G.D. McIntosh chairman

283 .

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to

the Senate.

1. On 22 August 1986, the Senate referred to the Committee

for examination and report the Particulars of Proposed

Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30

June 1987, the Particulars of Certain Proposed

Expenditure in respect of the Year ending on 30 June

1987 and the Advance to the Minister for Finance for

the Year ended 30 June 1986 relating to the following

Departments:

Veterans' Affairs

Transport

Aviation

Territories

Local Government and Administrative Services 2

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates for the year

ended 30 June 19 87 and the Advance to the Minister for

Finance, together with the Departmental Explanatory

Notes and has received evidence from the Minister for

Veterans' Affairs (Senator the Honourable Arthur

Gietzelt) and officers of the Departments and

287.

authorities concerned. Copies of the Minutes of

Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken

by the Committee are tabled for the information of the

Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1)

1986-87 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1986-87. Further

written explanations furnished by Departments will be

presented separately and printed in the Hansard record.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters that arose during consideration of

estimates:

THE DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION

The Committee wishes to comment on the manner in

which additional information sought by Senators

was provided to the Committee by the Department.

During the hearing of the estimates for the

Department, officers were asked questions which

were taken on notice on the usual undertaking that

written replies would be provided. The Committee

expected that answers to these questions would be

provided well before the Committee's required

reporting date.

The replies provided by the Department were not

made available to the Committee until Wednesday 15

October 1986, which has not allowed the Committee

adequate time to properly consider the

Department's replies.

The Committee draws attention to the circular

prepared by the Department of Finance, dated 5

September 1986, relating to answers to Questions

Taken on Notice from Senate Estimates Committees

2 8 8 .

which was circulated to every department. The

circular states in part:

. written answers to questions taken on notice

from Estimates Committees' hearings must be

available within a reasonable period

(normally within one week of the hearing) to

allow time for consideration and report by

each Estimates Committee; and

. where the answer to a particular question (or

questions) requires additional time,

departments and agencies should not delay

responding to other questions; rather, they

should submit the available answers and

advise the relevant Committee that additional

time is required for the more

difficult/complex/time-consuming answers and

provide an approximate time for their

submission.

The Department of Aviation did not observe these

guidelines and has not provided any indication of

the reason for the delay in providing answers.

The Department was asked only a relatively small

number of questions by members of the Committee.

In addition, a series of questions was put by

other Senators who also attended the Committee's

hearings at various times. The Committee is

disappointed that the Department was unable to

provide answers to these questions promptly and

expects that there will be no recurrence of this

problem in future.

289.

The Committee was also concerned that a series of

questions put to Departmental officers by Senator

Peter Baume concerning practices followed by

Qantas with relation to the sale of cigarettes on

Qantas flights, could not be properly addressed at

the hearing as no representative of Qantas was in

attendance.

No response to Senator Baume1s questions was

provided to the Committee. Instead, the Department

of Aviation advised the Committee Secretary in a

letter accompanying the Departments answers that:

... the response to Senator Baume1s questions concerning Qantas ... is not attached. Qantas is involved in investigating questions of law with the Department of Health. A response will be fowarded as soon as it becomes

available.

The Committee finds such a response completely

unacceptable. The advice provided by Qantas to the

Department is unsatisfactory as it is a clear

indication that Qantas does not regard itself as

accountable to the Parliament (which represents

Qantas shareholders) for actions and practices

which are properly the subject of scrutiny by the

Parliament.

The Committee Chair has written today to the

Chairman of Qantas requesting a reply to Senator

Baume1s questions by close of business on 22

October 1986, and expects that the replies will be

forthcoming by that date.

The Committee has in the past drawn attention to

the guidelines prepared in 1985 by the Department

of Finance which state that Statutory Authorities

290.

may be called upon by the Parliament to account

for the expenditure of public funds. Qantas is not

a Statutory Authority within the terms of the

accepted definition but is an incorporated company

in which the Commonwealth owns all shares. The

Committee nevertheless believes it is appropriate

that a representative of Qantas should attend

Estimates Committee hearings.

DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ADMINISTRATIVE

SERVICES

During the course of examination of the estimates

for the Department, Senator Vanstone drew

attention to the re-printing of the Annual Report

for the Department for 1984-85. Departmental

officers in attendance told the Committee that

following the initial printing of the report

significant errors were discovered in the report

and that, as a result, the report was withdrawn

from circulation, re-printed (with several changes

to layout) and re-published.

The Department told the Committee that a

combination of the introduction of new "high

technology" word processing equipment and a series

of errors in some of the data included in the

report necessitated this action. In addition, the

Department told the Committee that the fact that

the Department is located in nine different places

in Canberra presented problems when producing

drafts of the Annual Report concerned.

291 .

In written answers to the Committee, the

Department further advised that the extra cost

involved in recalling and re-printing the report

was in excess of $13,000.

The Committee was very disturbed at the inadequacy

of answers provided to it at the hearing on this

matter. In the Committee's view, Departmental

officers who attended the meeting were obviously

unprepared to answer questions regarding the cost

of a significant error in administration. The

Committee expects that greater attention will be

paid by the Department in this regard in future.

PROGRAM BUDGETING

Two Departments whose estimates were examined by

the Committee, the Department of Veterans' Afairs

and the Department of Local Government and

Administrative Services prepared and presented

their explanatory notes for 1986-87 in the Program

Budgeting format.

The Committee draws attention to the reports from

the Standing Committee on Finance and Government

Operations in May and December of 1985, and from

Estimates Committees A and C in October 1986

regarding the introduction of Program Budgeting,

and the effect this change will have on the proper

consideration of estimates by the Estimates

Committees.

The Committee endorses the importance of the need

for a system of Program Budgeting to facilitate

proper Parliamentary scrutiny and control of

292.

expenditure. The Committee also endorses the

conclusion of Estimates Committee A in its October

1985 report in this regard that in order to make a

useful and valid judgement on the ability of the

Estimates Committees or Parliament will need to

carefully follow the form of a department's

program statements for several years. The

Committee expects that comparison of a

Department's statements with those of other

Departments will facilitate this task.

(a) Department of Veterans' Affairs

This was the first year in which the Department

has presented its expenditure notes in a program

format. The Committee was satisfied with the

format and the presentation of the Explanatory

Notes and the Department's Program Statements. The

Department stated in some detail proposed

performance indicators for each program and

sub-program which it administers. The Committee

could not make any proper or useful examination of

the Department's performance, due to the fact that

there was no useful basis for examining the

Department's activity. However, it regards the

preparation of the Department's indicators as the

basis for future examination of Departmental

performance.

(b) The Department of Local Government and

Administrative Services

The Committee draws attention to a number of

discrepancies which occured between the

Department's explanatory notes and in the Budget

293 .

Paper Number 6 (portfolio program estimates) .

These discrepancies reflected the experience of

Estimates Committees A and C in their preliminary

examination of program based estimates in 1985.

Subsequent to the Committee's hearings, the

Department of Finance wrote to the Committee

regarding these discrepancies (and those for a

number of other Departments) and indicated that

the main reasons for the discrepancies were:

. departments maintaining information systems

separate from the Finance Ledger System and

not ensuring that the two reconcile.

. transitional difficulties associated with the

1 changeover1 to program budgeting.

The Department of Finance also suggested that the

frequency of differences would decline markedly as

the departments obtain further experience with

Program Budgeting.

The Committee looks forward to a reduction and,

hopefully, the elimination of this problem in

future.

assistance given by the Minister and the officers of

the departments concerned.

4 The Committee records its appreciation of the

(Olive Zakharov)

Chair

17 October 1986

294.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

T H E S E N A T E

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 6

THURSDAY, 18 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 12

noon in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. Senator Zakharov

took the Chair.

2. Senator Zakharov declared the meeting open, reported the

Resolution of the Senate of 22 August 1986, and made a

statement regarding the procedure to be followed by the

Committee in its examination of the estimates. The

Committee agreed that Departments would be examined in the

following order:

Program 1

Program 2

Program 3

Program 4

Program 5

Department of Veterans' Affairs

Department of Transport

Department of Aviation

Department of Territories

Department of Local Government and

Administrative Services

297 .

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

VETERANS' AFFAIRS.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Arthur Gietzelt,

Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the

following officers:

Department of Veterans' Affairs -

Mr D. Volker, Secretary Mr B. Godfrey, First Assistant Secretary, Management Mr J . Muir, First Assistant Secretary,

Benefits Mr A. Selleck, General Manager, Defence Service Homes Corporation Mr N. Trabinger, First Assistant Secretary,

Treatment Services Mr S. Wookey, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Dr G. Brooks, Director, Pharmaceutical Dr C. Davidson, Medical Services Advisor Mr A. Clarke, Director, Office of Australian

War Graves Mr B. Kelson, Assistant Director, Programs and Collections, Australian War Memorial Mr J . Cosgrove, Administrator, Australian War

Memorial Mr F. Woodhouse, Principal Registrar, Veterans' Review Board

Department of Finance -

Mr T. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr J. Hutson, Senior Finance Officer, Social

Security Division Mr W. Kinnade, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security Division Mr P. O'Brien, Finance Officer, General

Expenditure Division

298.

Senator Zakharov drew attention to the fact that Programs

of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Veterans'

Affairs were dealt with in the documents referred to the

Committee as follows:

Divisions 690-693 (Document A)

Divisions 984-987 (Document B)

Divisions 690-692,984 (Document D)

Senator Zakharov then called on the following Programs of

Proposed Expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

Program 1 Program 2 Program 3 Program 4 Program 5 Program 6

Program 7

Income Support Compensation Health War Graves

Corporate Services Housing Assistance Australian War Memorial

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Veterans' Affairs,

subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide

additional information to the Committee.

The Minister then made a statement relating to the affairs

of the Australian War Memorial.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

TRANSPORT.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Arthur Gietzelt,

Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following

officers:

299.

D e p a r t m e n t of T r a n s p o r t -

Mr P.J. Merner, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Co-ordination Division Mr T.R. Munyard, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services, Management and Co-ordination

Division Mr J . Bailey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Personnel Branch, Management and Co-ordination Division Mr D. McLennan, Deputy Director, Bureau of

Transport Economics Mr M. Hutchinson, First Assistant Secretary, International Shipping Policy Division Mr W.G. Upton, First Assistant Secretary,

Road Safety Division Mr P. Makeham, Senior Assistant Secretary, Motor Transport Branch, Road Safety

Division Mr C. Davidson, Manager, Marine Navigation Aids Branch, Maritime Safety Division Mr D.G. Kay, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary,

Safety Operations and Pollution Branch, Maritime Safety Division Mr I. Rischbieth, Assistant Secretary, Coastal Shipping Branch, Domestic Shipping Policy

Division Mr C.N. Thorpe, Assistant Secretary, Shipping Industry Branch, Domestic Shipping Policy Division Mr P.M.B. Cox, Assistant Secretary, Roads 'A'

Branch, Roads Division Mr K. Wheatley, Assistant Secretary, Land Transport Development Branch, Land Transport

Policy Division Ms F. Holthuyzen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Rail Branch, Land Transport Policy Division Mr D.R. Green, Assistant General Manager,

Technical Services, Australian National Railways Commission Mr K. Norley, Corporate Planning Manager, Australian National Railways Commission Dr N. Otway, Assistant Operations Manager,

Australian National Railways Commission Mr F. Keith, Secretary, Inter-State Commission Mr 0 . Rodda, Director Administration, Inter-State Commission Mr J. Walker, Director, Programs and Budgets,

Finance, and Services, Management and Co-ordination Division

300.

D e p a r t m e n t of F i n a n c e -

Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr R. Wilken, Senior Finance Officer,

Transport and Industry Division

Senator Zakharov called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 664-668

Divisions 972-973

Divisions 664-668

(Document A)

(Document B)

(Document D)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Transport subject to an

undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee. -

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Arthur Gietzelt, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the

following officers:

Department of Aviation -

Mr M. Mayoh, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Resources Division Mr G. Broomfield, Director, Budget Section, Resources Division Mr P. Bowen, First Assistant Secretary,

Domestic Policy Division Mr M. Dunn, Assistant Secretary, Airworthiness Branch, Flight Standards Division Mr T. Grant, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Special Duties Division Mr J . Wright, Assistant Secretary, Flying Operations Branch, Flight Standards Division

Ms C. Goode, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr P. Choquenot, Director, Bureau of Air Safety Investigation Mr N. Potter, Assistant Secretary,

International Organisations and Economic Branch, International Policy Division Mr H. O'Keeffe, First Assistant Secretary, Airways Division Mr J. Richardson, Acting Assistant Secretary,

Air Traffic Services Branch, Airways Division Mr J. Huggett, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Airports Division

Department of Finance -

Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr R. Robinson, Senior Finance Officer,

Transport and Industry Division

Senator Zakharov called on the following divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 193-194 (Document A)

Divisions 830 (Document B)

Divisions 193-194,830 (Document D)

The Committee concluded in its consideration of the

Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Aviation subject

to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

TERRITORIES.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Arthur Gietzelt,

Minister for Veterans' Affairs accompanied by the following

officers:

302 .

D e p a r t m e n t of T e r r i t o r i e s -

Mr J . Turner, Deputy Secretary, Australian Capital Territory Operations Ms L. Webb, First Assistant Secretary, Community Services Mr B. Dockrill, Acting First Assistant

Secretary, Transport and Works Mr G. Fraser, First Assistant Secretary, Finance Mr J. Morey, Acting Assistant Secretary,

Education Mr A. Hedley, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Legislation and Regulation Mr G. Caskill, Acting Secretary, Public Transit Mr J. Flutter, Acting Secretary, Technical

Services Mr Jim Maher, Acting Assistant Secretary, Traffic and Transport Mr L. Sorbello, Assistant Secretary, Legislation

and Legal Policy Mr P. Tinson, Director, Commercial Policy Mr R. Gallagher, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services -

Mr N. Quinn, First Assistant Secretary, External Territories Mr V. Martisius, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Development

Mr W. Kerr, Australian Capital Territory Fire Commissioner Ms L. Stock, Senior Finance Officer, Territories Division Mr T. Brady, Finance Officer

Mr M. Herrick, Finance Officer

Australian Capital Territory Health Authority:

Mr J. Bissett, General Manager Mr I. Todd, Acting Assistant General Manager Mr G. Beveridge, Acting Director, Resource Management Mr J. Hargreaves, Acting Assistant Director,

Resource Management

Australian Capital Territory Schools Authority:

Mr D. Francis, Senior Director, Programs Mr P. Sadler, Deputy Chief Education Officer Mr A. Butterfield, Director, Resources Ms T. Reilly, Principal Executive Officer,

Finance

303 .

National Capital Development Commission:

Mr B. Browning, Acting Associate Commissioner Mr A. Phillips, Acting Secretary Manager

Parliament House Construction Authority:

Mr John Maher, Senior Executive, Administration and Finance Mr I. Fowler, Senior Executive Officer, External

Relations and Interiors

Mr S. Meredith, Senior Finance Officer

Department of Finance -Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr M. Bernhardt, Senior Finance Officer,

Defence and Government Division Mr W. Kinrade, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security Division

Senator Zakharov called on the following Divisions for

consideration:

Divisions 620-626 (Document A)

Divisions 959-961 (Document B)

Divisions 620-626 (Document D)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Territories, subject to

an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional

information to the Committee.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 p.m.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Zakharov (Chair), Foreman, McKiernan,

Reid, Townley and Vanstone.

Senators Michael Baume, Peter Baurae, Boswell, Brownhill,

Kilgariff, Robertson, Short, Vigor and Walters also

attended and participated in the Committee proceedings.

(Olive Zakharov)

Chair

305 .

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 7

TUESDAY, 23 SEPTEMBER 1986

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 3.30

p.m. in Senate Committee rooms 1 and 2. Senator Zakharov took

the chair and the Committee commenced its meeting.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF

LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Arthur Gietzelt,

Minister for Veterans' Affairs, accompanied by the following

officers:

Department of Local Government and Administrative Services -

Mr A.A. Hillier, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr R. Divett, Acting Director of Property Mr C. Fuller, Deputy Surveyor-General Mr B.E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant

Secretary, Transport and Storage Division Mr S. Wenger, Acting, First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr J.R. Clark, Senior Assistant Secretary,

Overseas Property Office

306 .

Mr P. Dawson, Director, Australian Protective Service Mr V. Alexsandric, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office of Local Government, Local

Government and Regional Development Division Mr J. Jedryk, Acting Director, Program Administrative Section, Regional Development Branch, Local Government and Regional

Development Division Mr A. Butler, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing and Disposals Division Mrs K. Dal Bon, Senior Assistant Secretary,

Strategic Development Unit Mr M. Wood, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Management Division Mr G. Hackett, Director, Finance Branch,

Management Division Mr R.J. Williams, Acting Assistant Secretary, Property, Management and Disposals

Deparment of Finance -

Mr T.S. Wilson, Senior Finance Officer, .

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division Mr S. O'Donaghue, Senior Finance Officer, General Expenditure Division

Mr C. Maskell, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division Mr B. Steele, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division Mr W. Jackson, Assistant Secretary, General

Expenditure Division

Senator Zakharov drew attention to the fact that Programs of

Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Local Government

and Administrative Services were dealt with in the documents

referred to the Committee as follows:

Division 400 ,402 and 403 (Document A)

Division 921 and 923 (Document B)

Division 921 (Document D)

307 ,

The following Programs of Proposed Expenditure were then

called on for consideration by the Committee:

Program 1

Program 2

Program 3

Program 4

Program 5

Program 6

Program 7

Program 8

Program 9

Local Government and Regional Development

Australian Property Services

Overseas Property Services

Protective and Custodial Services

Purchasing and Disposals

Survey

Transport and Storage

Corporate Services

Accommodation and Catering Services

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed

Expenditure for the Department of Local Government and

Administrative Services, subject to an undertaking by the

Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.34 p.m.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Zakharov (Chair), Foreman, McKiernan,

Reid, Townley and Vanstone.

Senators Peter Baume, Harradine and Vigor also attended and

participated in the Committee proceedings.

(Olive Zakharov)

Chair

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 8

THURSDAY, 16 OCTOBER 1986

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 8.35 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 8. Senator

Zakharov took the Chair and the Committee commenced its meeting.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 18 and 23 September 1986 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report to the Senate.

Resolved: that, subject to the addition of words proposed by Senator Vanstone, the report be printed and tabled on Friday 17 October 1986.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.47 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Zakharov (Chair), Reid and Vanstone attended the meeting.

Apologies were received from Senators Foreman, McKiernan and Townley.

Certified correct:

ft. 'ZfSzA**'

(Olive Zakharov) Chair

309

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

HANSARD - INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE P

Thursday, 18 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Formation : in order of discussion

Page Issues

311 Chairman’s opening statement

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

312 312 312-316 316- 317 317- 318

318 318 318- 319 319

319 319 320 320 321

321- 322 322- 323 323

323- 324 324 324 324

324

324 325 325-327

327 327- 328 328- 329

Minister's Opening Statement , Program budgeting Incorporation of questions and answers Fringe Benefits Tax

Salaries - leave loading Maternity and paternity leave Sick leave Long service leave

Service pensions Computer services - waste Invalidity retirements Veterans' Review Board Australian Prisoners of War - Compensation

Staff reductions Hospitals Veterans Health Care

Equipment Public use of Veterans' institutions Employment - casual, contract

Ministerial council meetings Special stationary for Ministers, etc. Corporate services - reduction in percentage expenditure Defence Force home loans Vietnam Gallery Compensation and Legal Expenses - questions on

notice Assets test - pensioners affected Returned ex-servicemen Australian War memorial - Statement by Minister

313.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

329- 330 330, 333­ 346 330 330- 331 331 331, 346­ 331-332 332-333 333 335 335 336- 337 337 337- 338 338 338- 339 339 3339-340

Minister's opening statement -325, Australian Shipping Commission Port and terminal efficiencies

Coastal shipping Interstate Road Transport Act 1985 -347 Australian Land Transport Act 1985 Left turn at red lights

Invalidity retirements Ministerial council meetings Furiture and fittings Special stationary for Ministers, etc. Bicycle helmets Professional Services - Road Safety Pirie Islet Lighthouse Tasmanian Freight Equalisation Scheme Fringe Benefits Tax Australian Shippers Council Australian Motorcycle Council

340

BUREAU OF TRANSPORT ECONOMICS

Achievements

340 341 341- 342 341 342 342 342 342- 343

INTERSTATE COMMISSION

Listing References ANL

Corporate plan Travel allowances Incidentals Office requisites Computer paper

343 343 343 343- 344

344 344 344 344- 345 345 345 346 346-348

AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS COMMISSION

Alice Springs - Darwin rail link Reduction in revenue supplement Staff reductions

New locomotives Ghan passenger train Rolling stock Overlander service

Fuel excise Capital railways project Reflector strips Travel between capital cities Special appropriations

348-349 Australian Bicentennial Road Development Trust Fund 349 Equal Opportunities

314.

DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION

350 350 352 352

352

356 356 356 357

3 57 358 358 359 360

361· 362 362

362 363 363 363 363 363 364

364 364 364 364

364· 365 365· 366 366 367 367

368 368 368

368 368 369 369

369 370 370 370 371

371 372 372

374

Questions on notice

351 Replies to questions on notice

Changes to distace measuring equipment Overcharging of international airlines 356 Qantas - cigarette policy

- free tickets

Special stationary for Ministers, etc. Fringe Benefits Tax 357 Professional Services - explanation of expenditure Increased charges of aviation facilities 358 Search and rescue

359 Darwin airport

Cost of name change of TAA to Australian Airlines 360 Brisbane Airport

Computer expenses

DEPARTMENT OF TERRITORIES

362 Questions on notice

Personnel reduction Vacancies - changeover period Higher duties '

Flexitime Redeployment RSI Band 2 staff ACT Effective Self-Government Bill Drafting resources Ordinances for gazettal

Review of ordinances Regional role of Canberra Land administration and planning 365 Community Employment Program - recycling waste

Liquid Petroleum Gas

366 Housing - FBT

Christmas Island - retraining Consultancies Parks and Conservation - sporting facilities 368 Renegotiation of cleaning contracts Capital costs of government dwellings Minor repairs and refurbishment Mortgage and rent relief

Impact of interest rates ■369 Youth homelessness Drivers licence - cost of replacement Driving tests ■370 ACT Taxi-plate Owners Association

ACT Fire Brigade ACTION Bus service

■371 Lighting services

Canberra Development Board and industry support ■372 Removal of car from Parliament House Consultants •373 Jervis bay - properties

•375 Belconnen Mall

315 .

375 375- 376 376 376- 377 377- 378

Tuggeranong Parkway bridge Hindmarsh Drive - resealing 'Bush Capital' NCDC - revision of Act Parliament House Construction Authority - construction of bowling green 379 Auditor-General1s Report - Parliament House

Authority

379 380 380 380-381 381 381 381 381

- art works - absence of stocktaking - storage facilities - construction expenditure - construction management agreement - stocktaking of scaffolding

- collection of rare timber - power-points

381- 382 382- 383 383 383- 384

384 385 385 385

EXTERNAL TERRITORIES

Public servants employed Christmas Island - industrial problems - mining - airstrips Cocos Island - cost of transporting goods

Cyclone maintenance Charter aircraft Ashmore Reef - Australian presence

385- 386

386 386- 387 387- 388 388 388 388 388

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY SCHOOLS AUTHORITY

Shortage of staff Class sizes ESL program MeKeliar - absence of planned school School media services Opening of new schools Chisholm Primary School - traffic problems Corporal punishment

388- 389

389 389 389- 390 390 390- 391 391 391- 392

392- 393 393 393 393- 395 395-396 396

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY HEALTH AUTHORITY

Refurbishment of residences at R.C.H. Surgery backlogs Beds available in ACT hospitals Tobacco Ordinance Purchase of improvements on withdrawn leases Additional allocation for vehicles Mugga Lane landfill site - extensions Health centre at Belconnen Long stay caravan park Cameron Offices - additional expenditure New Parliament House - completion date

- additional cost elements

Freedom of Information Act - cost - advisory council

316 .

396 397 397-398

399 399 399-401

Australian traineeship system -insurance subsidy Reneging on mortgage contracts - properties affected Reneging on mortgage contracts - socio-economic

status of people affected Increases in revenue Expenditure by Fire Brigade Questions on notice

317 .

SENATE

Page

731

731- 732 732 732- 733, 733 733 733- 734 734- 735 736 736- 737 737 737- 738 738 738- 739 739 740

740 740- 741 741- 743

743-747

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Tuesday, 23 September 1986

INDEX TO ISSUES

Formation : in order of discussion

Issues

Chairman's opening statement

DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Ministers opening statement Program budgeting 738 Fringe Benefits Tax Retirements

Vacancies - changeover period Higher duties Property Management Repair costs ANZAC and Merrett rifle ranges Civic Permanent Centre - air conditioning problems Lease accommodation in Nigeria

Refurbishment of the residence in Ireland Wang computers contractual committments Survey operations in S.M.O.S. Mapping expenditure in the Australian Survey Office Richardson inquiry Commonwealth car number plates Second printing of annual reports Questions on notice.

318.