Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Estimates - Senate Committees - Reports - Together with Hansard record of proceedings - Committees A, C, D, E and F on Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for year 1979-80


Download PDF Download PDF

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEES A, B, C, D , E AND F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1979-80

Brought up and ordered to be printed 29 April 1980

Parliamentary Paper No. 86/1980

Parliamentary Paper N o. 86/1980

The Parliament o f the Commonwealth o f Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D , E and F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1979-80

The Commonwealth Government Printer Canberra 1980

© Commonwealth of Australia 1980

Printed by Authority by the Commonwealth Gorem m ent Printer

CONTENTS

Page

1. Resolution of the Senate 1 April 1980 ............................................................................. 5

2. Estimates'Committee A Report ........................................................................................................... 9

Minutes of Proceedings 1980 15 April 1980 ................................................................... 15

21 April 1980 . .......................................................... ......... . 18

28 April 1980 . . . 20

3. Estimates Committee B Report ......................................................................................................... 25

Minutes of Proceedings 1980 3 April 1980 . . . . . . . . . . 33

15 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 34

17 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 36

29 April 1980 ...................................................................................... . 3 8

4. Estimates Committee C Report . . . . . . . . . . . 41

Minutes of Proceedings 1980 15 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 45

21 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 49

23 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 51

5. Estimates Committee D R e p o r t ...............................................................................................55

Minutes of Proceedings 2 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 61

17 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 62

23 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 67

29 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 68

6. Estimates Committee E Report . . . . . . . . . . . 71

Minutes of Proceedings 2 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 75

17 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 76

23 April 1980 ...................................................................................... 84

7. Estimates Committee F Report ............................................................................. 87

Minutes of Proceedings 2 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 93

18 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 94

21 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 99

22 April 1980 ....................................................................................... 103

RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED 1 APRIL 1980

Reference to Estimates Committees—Senator Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, by leave, moved:

(1) That the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1980 be referred herewith to Estimates Committees for examination and report.

(2) That the Committees consider the Proposed Additional Expenditure in relation to Departments, as follows:

Estimates Committee A Parliament National Development and Energy Prime Minister and Cabinet

Treasury Education Estimates Committee B Attorney-General’s

Industrial Relations Employment and Youth Affairs Business and Consumer Affairs Estimates Committee C

Social Security Finance Health Veterans’ Affairs Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Estimates Committee D

Aboriginal Affairs Industry and Commerce Transport Productivity

Science and the Environment Estimates Committee E Special Trade Representative Primary Industry

Home Affairs Capital Territory Housing and Construction Estimates Committee F Trade and Resources Foreign Affairs Defence Postal and Telecommunications Administrative Services

(3) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Tuesday, 29 April 1980.

Question—put and passed.

5

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 1 April 1980 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for 1979-80 relating to the following Departments:

Parliament National Development and Energy Prime Minister and Cabinet

Treasury Education

2. The Committee has considered these estimates and received explanations from the President of the Senate (in relation to the Parliamentary Departments) and the Minister for National Development and Energy and officers of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the

Committee are tabled for the consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1979-80 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1979-80.

3. Further written replies to questions are awaited and, on receipt will be distributed to members of the Committee and where appropriate to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the Committee Hansard.

4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates.

(a) Advance to the Minister for Finance The report of this Committee in May 1978 drew attention to what appeared to be two prima facie cases of the misuse of funds approved by Parliament for the Advance to the Minister for Finance. The Committee recommended that the matter be referred to the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations for investigation and report. The matter was subsequently referred to that Committee which reported to the Senate in August 1979. The Government has not yet responded

to the Committee’s Report. During the consideration of the Estimates for Parliament the Committee sought information as to why no estimate had been included for expenditure that would be incurred if any Parliamentary Staff were to be relocated at the Hotel Kurrajong.

The Committee was informed that it is the intention to provide for any such expenditure by way of the Advance to the Minister for Finance once a final decision on the relocation of sections of the Library had been made. Removal of sections of the Library, therefore, would be a fait accompli and this Committee would not have

had the proper opportunity to scrutinise the proposed expenditure. The Committee is of the opinion that is clearly inappropriate to use moneys from the ‘Advance to the Minister’ in the circumstances cited above as they are clearly not ‘urgent and unforeseen circumstances’.

However, the Committee is also of the opinion that the implementation of Recom­ mendation 5 of the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations is important to the proper scrutiny of Government expenditure by Senate Estimates Committees. Recommendation 5 is: ‘A statement of approvals of expenditure from the Advance be published at the end of each calendar month and then tabled in

Parliament at the earliest opportunity. The statement should indicate into which

9

category each item of expenditure falls i.e. whether it is expenditure to fund payments pending the issue of Governor-General’s Warrants, to make advances which will be repaid within the financial year, to make moneys available for supplementation of existing appropriations for specified purposes or to make moneys available for new services for which no specific appropriation has been made. The statement should show all expenditure which requires the creation of a new appropriation item, but only expenditure above $50 000 for the other categories.’ To enable Estimates Committee examination of the statements, modification of the present operation of the Committees would be necessary i.e. the Committees may find it necessary to meet on a regular, frequent basis to seek details of the expenditure sought and approved from the Advance to the Minister for Finance. The Committee therefore recommends that the Senate Standing Orders Committee examine and report to the Senate on the

details of any changes which would be required to enable this procedure to be followed.

(b) Identification o f Expenditure on specific programs and projects During its consideration of the Departmental Estimates the Committee was aware of a number of instances where it is not possible for the Committee to identify the total expenditure incurred on specific programs or projects because expenditure items are shown separately under a number of Departmental appropriations which are spread over a number of Estimates Committees. Because of this practice it is not possible for Senators to identify and examine the total amount of expenditure involved.

A similar problem in examining witnesses can also arise within the estimates for a particular Department where expenditure can be included under a number of divisions and items.

The Committee recommends to the Senate that in future both the originating or initiating Department and the client service department provide adequate cross­ reference information in their explanatory notes to enable total expenditure associated with a particular program or project to be ascertained.

The Committee is also of the opinion that the Senate should examine the desirability of an Estimates Committee calling witnesses from Departments other than those whose estimates are referred to that Committee to enable information to be given which is necessary for a proper examination of items under consideration. The

Committee recommends that the Senate Standing Orders Committee examine and report to the Senate on what changes to Senate Standing Orders would be required to enable a Senate Estimates Committee to seek information from Departments other than those for which the Committee has specific responsibility.

(c) Limitations on the Role of Estimates Committees The matters referred to in sections (a) and (b) above are specific problems which limit the effectiveness of Estimates Committees. In addition to specific problems such as these the Committee wishes to draw attention to some broader issues which affect the overall effectiveness of Estimates Committees.

Estimates Committees currently operate within a fixed framework regulated by Standing Order 36ab which places severe limitations in respect of the procedures followed, the number of meetings held and requests for information.

Further, the Resolution of appointment of Estimates Committees provides that the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and the Additional Estimates shall on motion be referred to the Committees for investigation and report. This precludes the Estimates Committees from having any continuing function throughout the year. The lack of a continuing role has become an increasingly significant limitation on the

10

effectiveness of the Committees. Estimates Committee A is of the opinion that a change is necessary to permit Committees to have an ongoing monitoring function and to enable appropriate full-time staffing arrangements to be made.

The Committee recommends to the Senate that the question of: (1) changing the Estimates Committees resolution of appointment, inquiry and reports and (2) the limitations imposed by Standing Order 36ab be referred to the Senate

Standing Orders Committee for consideration of how the above restrictions could be best overcome.

In previous reports this Committee has drawn the attention of the Senate to the problems associated with the experimental staffing arrangements for Estimates Committees that have been tried to date. In line with all the above recommendations to refine and extend the operations of Estimates Committees, the Committee again

draws this matter to the attention of the Senate and reiterates the need for more permanent staffing arrangements to be implemented. The Committee is pleased to note that the Fifth Report of the Fifty-ninth Session of the Standing Orders Committee

refers specifically to the problems associated with the staffing of Estimates Committees. This report was tabled on 31 March and will enable Senators to raise this matter when the report is debated in the Senate.

(d) Parliament's Appropriation In view of the growing interest of Senators in the problems associated with the administration of Parliament, the introduction of a Special Appropriation Bill, issues related to the location of Parliamentary Staff at the Hotel Canberra and the Kurrajong,

and construction of the New and Permanent Parliament House, the Committee considers that the present consideration of the appropriation for Parliament is inadequate.

The Committee recommends that, in future, consideration of the appropriation for Parliament should take place separately and prior to the sitting of the other Estimates Committees. This would enable all interested Senators to attend and participate and would avoid the current situation where interested Senators are

unable to attend because of their involvement with and responsibility for other Estimates Committees.

(e) Basis o f Estimating and Expected Savings The Committee is concerned that the present directives to Departments from the Department of Finance do not provide any incentive for Departments to produce ‘good house-keeping’ since they may fear that their appropriation for the following year could be reduced accordingly. The Committee also notes that the Public Accounts

Committee in recent years has not conducted its traditional inquiry into departmental underspending.

It is a difficult area for an Estimates Committee to pursue since once the Additional Estimates are considered and passed there can be no follow-up by the Committee as its next meeting involves the annual appropriations. The Committee considers that provision should be made in the existing procedures to ensure that Departments do not spend for the sake of spending prior to the close of the financial year. Any underspending of this type should be disregarded in the preparation of the next annual appropriations.

11

(f) Auditor-General—Information Sought by the Committee During the consideration of the Auditor-General’s Office it was pointed out that the Committee was at some disadvantage because the Supplementary Report—November 1979 did not contain information relating to reports not received by the Auditor-

General, particularly those outstanding for more than twelve months.

The Committee was advised that in future the Auditor-General would be reporting twice yearly to Parliament using the same format on both occasions. It appears to the Committee that under the new proposal the Reports would not necessarily be available prior to the sittings of the Estimates Committees. Estimates Committees have repeatedly emphasised in the past the importance of the Auditor-General’s Report as

a source of information for proper examination of departmental estimates.

The Committee considers that the change indicated above would be a retrograde step and recommends to the Senate that the Auditor-General be asked to investigate this matter further to ensure that the reports are tabled before the Estimates Committees meet.

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

29 April 1980

12

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

X

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE A

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 16

TUESDAY, 15 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.30 p.m. The Chairman (Senator K. J. Martin) took the Chair.

2. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolutions of the Senate of 1 April 1980 relating to the reference to the Committee of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1979-80 and Membership of the Committee (appointing Senators McLaren and Young in place of Senators Knight and Sibraa)

were reported.

3. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate on 1 April 1980, the Committee would consider the following departmental estimates:

Docu­ ment* Page

Division No. Department Amount

A 4 -5 1 0 1 -1 0 5 , 108 P a rlia m e n t . . . . .

$

777 000

B 4 800 P a rlia m e n t . . . . . 17 000

A 40-4 1 4 3 0 -4 3 2 , 436 N a tio n a l D e v e lo p m e n t a n d E n e rg y 6 875 000

B 11 883, 885, 886 N a tio n a l D e v e lo p m e n t a n d E n e rg y 5 097 000

A 4 6 -4 8 500, 5 0 4 -506,

509, 515, 516

P rim e M in is te r a n d C a b in e t . 2 466 000

A 5 9 -6 0 670, 672, 678 T re a s u ry . . . . . 5 099 000

B 14 970, 971 T re a s u ry . . . . . 1 316 000

A 2 3 -2 5 270, 271, 273­

275, 278, 279

E d u c a tio n . . . . . 11 132 000

B 7- 8 83 5 -8 3 7 E d u c a tio n . . . . . 7 214 000

* Document A—Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1980. * Document B—Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1980.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— PARLIAMENT:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Sir Condor Laucke, President of the Senate accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Senate: Mr K. O. Bradshaw, Acting Clerk of the Senate Mr A. R. Gumming Thom, Acting Deputy Clerk of the Senate Mr R. G. Thomson, Acting Clerk Assistant

Mr T. H. G. Wharton, Usher of the Black Rod Mr M. W. H. Rosser, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Inter-Parliamentary Union) Mr G. M. Nankervis, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Administration)

15

Parliamentary Reporting Staff:

Mr J. F. Kerr, Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr M. Farrelly, Acting Administrative Officer Library: Mr H. G. Weir, Parliamentary Librarian

Mr M. J. Bray, Senior Executive Officer Mr H. Knight, Finance Officer Joint House Department: Mr R. L. Burrell, Acting Secretary

Mr F. W. Bradley, Acting Chief Executive Officer Mr G. I. Hope, Technical Officer

Department o f Finance: Mr R. J. Gowing, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Division 101-105, 109 — Parliament (Document A) Division 800 ■ — Parliament (Document B) The Committee deferred its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Parliament until after the Divisions relating to the proposed additional expenditure for the Departments of National Development and Energy, Prime Minister and Cabinet, Treasury and Education had been approved.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENERGY: Appearing: Senator Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy

accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f National Development and Energy: Mr R. N. Townsend, Deputy Secretary Mr D. J. Ives, Deputy Director, National Energy Office Mr W. H. Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. McMahon, First Assistant Secretary, Energy Policy Division Mr R. Hopkins, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and

Development Division Mr A. Burden, Acting Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and Development Division Mr P. Ryan, First Assistant Secretary, Uranium and General Division Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water Division Mr R. D. Ryan, Assistant Director, Australian Safeguards Office Mr A. G. Bomford, Director, Division of National Mapping Mr T. C. Sargent, Senior Executive Officer, Division of National Mapping Dr A. R. Jensen, Acting Assistant Director (Operations), Bureau of Mineral

Resources

Australian Atomic Energy Commission: Dr G. L. Miles, Deputy Director (Operations) Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary, Finance

Pipeline Authority: Mr F. W. Noble, Finance Manager Mr G. J. Jones, Budgetary Controller

16

Department o f Finance:

Mr R, J. Gowing, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Division 430 for consideration.

The Committee deferred further consideration of Division 430 until its next meeting.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.00 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Martin (Chairman), Colston, Davidson, McLaren, Wriedt and Young. Senators Georges, Knight and McClelland also took part in the Committee’s proceedings.

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

17

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

M ONDAY, 21 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.16 p.m. The Chairman, Senator K. J. Martin, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENERGY:

Appearing: Senator Garrick, Minister for National Development and Energy accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f National Development and Energy:

Mr R. N. Townsend, Deputy Secretary Mr W. H. Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. McMahon, First Assistant Secretary, Energy Policy Division Mr R. Hopkins, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and

Development Division Mr A. Burdon, Acting Assistant Secretary, Energy Research and Development Division Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water Division

Mr R. D. Ryan, Assistant Director, Australian Safeguards Office Mr A. G. Bomford, Director, Division of National Mapping Mr T. C. Sargent, Senior Executive Officer, Division of National Mapping Dr A. R. Jensen, Acting Assistant Director (Operations), Bureau of Mineral

Resources

Australian Atomic Energy Commission :

Dr G. L. Miles, Deputy Director (Operations) Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary, Finance

Pipeline Authority:

Mr T. R. Baker, Executive Member Mr G. F. W. Noble, Finance Manager Mr G. J. Jones, Budgetary Controller

Department o f Finance:

Mr J. Wojtaszak, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 430 (in continuance), 431, 432 and 436 (Document A) Divisions 883, 885 and 886 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of National Development and Energy.

18

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET:

Appearing: Senator Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Prime Minister and Cabinet:

Mr L. R. Pyke, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr J. G. Hinton, Assistant Secretary, Services Branch Mr Μ. N. Woolley, First Assistant Secretary, Financial Services and Internal Audit Division, Department of Defence

Australian Science and Technology Council:

Dr R. M. Green, Secretary Dr. E. N. Cain, Principal Project Officer

Auditor-General’s Office:

Mr A. A. Taylor, First Assistant Auditor-General, Division C Mr J. L. Grigg, Assistant Auditor-General, Policy Planning and Management Branch Mr F. P. Campbell, Executive Officer, Finance and Services

Public Service Board:

Mr R. N. McLeod, Secretary Mr R. G. Harvey, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch Mr R. C. Harris, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts Mr R. J. McNally, Assistant Director, Mandata Program Office

Department o f Finance:

Mr J. Wojtaszak, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 500, 504, 505, 506, 509, 515 and 520 (Document A)

The Committee did not complete consideration of Division 520 which was deferred until its next meeting.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.53 p.m,

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Martin (Chairman), Colston, Davidson, McLaren, Wriedt and Young. Senators Chipp, Georges and Walsh also took part in the Committee’s proceedings.

K, J. MARTIN Chairman

19

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

M ONDAY, 28 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.20 a.m. The Chairman, Senator K. J. Martin, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET:

Appearing: Senator Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy accompanied by the following officers:

Public Service Board: Mr R. N. McLeod, Secretary Mr R. G. Harvey, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch Mr R. C. Harris, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts Mr R. J. McNally, Assistant Director, Mandata Program Office The Committee resumed with Division 520 and concluded its consideration of the

proposed additional expenditure for the Prime Minister and Cabinet.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — TREASURY:

Appearing: Senator Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Treasury:

Mr T. L. Jobling, Director (Finance and General) Mr B. Strangio, Finance Officer Mr D. W. Holmesby, Estimates Officer Miss Μ. P. Genat, Inspector (Personnel) Mr A. W. G. Butler, Senior Finance Officer, Revenue, Loans and Investment

Division Mr G. Crawford, Senior Finance Officer, Revenue, Loans and Investment Division Mr I. J. Robinson, Senior Finance Officer, Overseas Economic Relations

Division

Australian Bureau of Statistics: Mr P. G. Howell, Assistant Statistician, Management Services Branch Mr G. Cocking, Acting Director, Information Services Section Mr R. M. Walker, Director, Finance and General Services Section

Mr R. P. O’Callaghan, Inspector, Finance Australian Taxation Office: Mr J. J. Daly, Assistant Commissioner, Management Services Branch, Man­ agement Division

Mr N. Connop, Executive Officer, Income Tax Legislation Branch Mr P. J. McCann, Finance Officer, Management Services Branch

20

Department o f Finance:

Mr D. J. Evans, Public Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 670, 672 and 678 (Document A) Divisions 970, 971 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for Department of the Treasury.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION:

Appearing: Senator Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy ac­ companied by the following officers:

Department o f Education:

Mr D. M. Morrison, Deputy Secretary Mr R. N. Allen, Assistant Secretary, Departmental Services Branch Mr F. Smith, Assistant Secretary, International Education Branch

Mr Η. E. Hughes, First Assistant Secretary, Special Programs Division Mr W. Bowron, Acting Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Student Assistance Branch Mr P. Bowler, Director, Office of A.C.T. Further Education

Mr P. B. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr J. Burnett, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr R. Richards, Assistant Director, Office of A.C.T. Further Education

Schools Commission: Mr D. Marsh, Director, Management Services

Tertiary Education Commission:

Mr R. P. Lane, Acting Director, Finance and Management Services Mr N. Garsia, Assistant Director, Finance

A.C.T. Schools Authority: Dr J. Grant, Director, Curriculum Branch Mr B. Hutchison, Director, Resources Branch

Department of Education: Mr M. Howard, Assistant Director, Budgeting Mr R. Yabsley, Finance Officer Mr J. Mears, Finance Officer, Office of A.C.T. Further Education

Mr J. Morey, Director, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Mr J. Burnett, Director, Education Planning Group

Tertiary Education Commission:

Mr J. Moore, Estimates Officer

A.C.T. Schools Authority: Miss T. Reilly, Assistant Director, Finance and Services Mr O. Rodda, Finance Officer

21

Australian National University:

Mr J. Brayshaw, Budgets Officer Mr J. Harper, Laboratory Manager

Canberra College of Advanced Education:

Mr W. Dwyer, Bursar Dr R. Jory, Registrar

Department o f Finance:

Mr D. J. Evans, Public Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 270, 271, 273, 274, 275, 278 and 279 (Document A) Divisions 835, 836 and 837 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed, additional expenditure for the Department of Education.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF PARLIAMENT:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Sir Condor Laucke, K.C.M.G., President of the Senate accompanied by the following officers:

Mr T. H. G. Wharton, Usher of the Black Rod Mr H. G. Weir, Parliamentary Librarian Mr R. L. Burrell, Acting Secretary, Joint House Department Mr F. W. Bradley, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Joint House Department Mr M. J. Bray, Senior Executive Officer, Parliamentary Library

The Committee received further information from the President, and then con­ cluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Parliament.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.25 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Martin (Chairman), Colston, McLaren and Young.

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

22

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

1. On 1 April 1980, the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for the year 1979-80 relating to the following Departments:

Attorney-General’s Industrial Relations Employment and Youth Affairs Business and Consumer Affairs

2. The Committee has considered these Additional Estimates, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the Attorney-General, Senator Durack, and officers of the Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with the Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1979-80 and the Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1979-80. Answers to questions which were deferred and subsequently given in writing since the Committee’s last hearings will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from our consideration of the Additional Estimates:

Attorney-General’s Department:

High Court o f Australia: The Attorney-General’s Department made two provisions for expenditure on the High Court of Australia under the High Court o f Australia Act 1979; an amount of $550 000 for running expenses (Division 189) and an amount of $105 000 for capital works and services (Division 823). These provisions raised the difficulty of establishing the total costs of the High Court from departmental estimates, bearing

in mind that the Court has been funded through several different departments. The extent to which provisions for the Court have been scattered throughout the various estimates was exemplified by the following exchange during the Committee’s hearings between Senator G. J. Evans and Mr L. G. Glare of the Attorney-General’s Depart­

ment:

Senator Evans: My question is: What is this item doing here? Chasing money spent on the High Court building and equipment is a bit like chasing through the estimates of money spent on Boeing 707 aircraft because bits and pieces are all over the place. As I understand it—I would appreciate

some confirmation of this—the basic cost of the building is appropriated under the Department of Housing and Construction vote although I may be wrong, and it may be in the Public Works vote.

Furniture and fittings crop up under the Department of Administrative Services, but now we seem to have a minor capital works increase cropping up here. I am confused about this and I would appreciate some clarification as to where one could find, in the Estimates, a total picture of the cost of

the new building and its equipment.

25

Mr Glare: The building cost is under the National Capital Development Commission and furniture is generally under the Department of Adminis­ trative Services’ furniture votes.

Senator Button: Generally?

Mr Glare: It depends on what we call furniture, but you could say the furniture itself. The built-in furniture is under the National Capital Develop­ ment Commission. The items of furniture purchased for the Court are under the Department of Administrative Services. The provision under division

823, subdivision 3 is money which was originally provided in Appropriation Act (No. 2). It was examined in some detail at page 604 of the Senate Estimates Committee B hearing on 27 September 1979. The amount of $105 000 must be reprovided under a different item because of the antici­ pated commencement of the High Court of Australia Act, which provides

for that money to be administered by the High Court.

Senator Evans: Yes, I remember the discussion about the actual contents of this. But why is this neither building fixtures nor furniture ? Why is it the subject of a separate vote under the Attorney-General’s Department when it seems to be squarely related to equipment for the building itself?

Mr Glare: These items are under the Attorney-General’s portfolio generally as estimates. Pages 604-605 of the previous Hansard list such items as an electric kettle, an electronic cash register, a shampoo machine—which 1 assume is for the carpets—a microfilm reader, a printer and stand, and a

3m scaffold. These are not really building items; they are items for con­ ducting business within the building.

Senator Evans: Is that the criterion ?

Mr Glare: That is right, I can remember being questioned earlier about the lengths of rope, the bosun’s chair and the like, which were for window cleaning. {Hansard, p. 61)

The Gilbertian complexity of tracing the costs of the construction of the High Court through the labyrinth of the various departmental estimates indicates one of the major problems in the work of Estimates Committees, viz. the difficulty in eval­ uating aggregated programs, and not merely their components dispersed throughout

the appropriations.

The Committee considers that the evaluation of programs on a continuing basis would be one of the most useful functions which Senate Estimates Committees could perform. Individual items of Government expenditure could be assessed in their proper context and could be followed more easily from one set of appropriations to the next.

However, in order to undertake program evaluation, we consider that the pro­ vision of permanent staff for Estimates Committees is essential. Program evaluation will involve an ongoing examination by the Estimates Committees. However, to enable them to carry out this essential Parliamentary function it will be necessary to ensure that, like Standing Committees, they may obtain evidence from all relevant persons irrespective of the Department to which they are attached. Program evaluation will involve an ‘across the board’ approach through whomsoever that program is being delivered. The allocation of one permanent secretary/research officer to each

Committee has already been agreed to in principle by the Public Service Board.

26

However, the allocation has not been made in fact because the Senate has complied with the staff ceiling requested by the Government,

The concept of program evaluation is not new and was raised by the Royal Com­ mission on Australian Government Administration. They noted that the United States General Accounting Office regarded a comprehensive audit as including three broad categories:

- audits of financial operations and legal compliance; - audits of efficiency and economy of operations; and - audits of program results or effectiveness.

The Royal Commission’s recommendation and the Government’s response were commented on by the Auditor-General in the October 1978 issue of the ‘Australian Accountant’. He notes that the Royal Commission recommended that the first two categories should be included in the role of the Auditor-General and that the Depart­ ment of the Prime Minister and Cabinet should assume responsibility for the third.

One of the main reasons for excluding the third category of audit from the role of the Auditor-General was that it would involve him in making judgments of an es­ sentially political nature, with adverse implications for his position of independence.

The Prime Minister accepted the Royal Commission’s recommendations and on 18 November 1976 announced in Parliament that the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet should assume responsibility for program effectiveness reviews. However, there was no requirement that this review should be reported to Parliament and the Committee considered that this defect should be remedied, as the principal of accountability of Departments to the Parliament is a basic tenet of the Westminster

system of government. Accountability from Caesar to Caesar is the antithesis of the system of parliament democracy. The Committee considers that the Estimates Com­ mittees are the appropriate means by which the function of Parliamentary program evaluation may be effectively conducted as they provide a public appraisal of Govern­ ment program effectiveness together with ensuring full accountability to the people through the Parliament.

We therefore take this opportunity to urge that the suggested staff ceiling for the Department of the Senate be raised, to permit the provision of permanent staff to Estimates Committees. We believe that this will enable the next important develop­ ment in the Committees’ role to proceed, viz. the establishment of effective programs evaluation.

Attorney-General’s Department, Department of Industrial Relations, Department of Employment and Youth Affairs:

Expenditure from the Advance to the Minister for Finance In the past, it has been difficult to distinguish which items in Appropriation Bills 3 & 4 have already been funded from the Advance to the Minister for Finance. This problem was referred to by the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Govern­ ment Operations in its report on the ‘Advance to the Minister for Finance’. This reference was given unanimously by the Senate upon its consideration of the Reports from Estimates Committees A & C of May 1978. Both committees had expressed concern over the use of this potential means of avoiding the fundamental principle

of parliamentary appropriation. Amongst other matters the Committee recommended that the explanations accompanying the Appropriation Bills, which are examined by

27

Senate Estimates Committees, be accompanied by a separate section for each Depart­ ment showing the funds which have already been provided from the Advance. Pur­ suant to this recommendation the Department of Finance now requires that, in the preparation of explanatory notes for Estimates Committees, items be identified where the funds sought have been either wholly or partly provided from the Advance.

However, three of the four Departments examined by the Committee in our consideration of the 1979-80 Additional Estimates did not identify those items which had been funded from the Advance. Only the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs informed the Committee before the hearings of its Advance expenditure (one item wholly funded of $1 000 000). The three other Departments each had items

funded wholly or partly from the Advance (Attorney-General’s Department, two items wholly, totalling $64 200, four items partly, totalling $230 000; Department of Employment and Youth Affairs, one item wholly, of $2 000 000 and two items partly, totalling $82 000; Department of Industrial Relations two items partly, totalling

$90 000). This expenditure was not identified in the Departments’ explanatory notes.

The Committee considers that as a matter of principle, these items should be identified. They involve expenditure by the Executive Government prior to its appropriation for a specific purpose by the Parliament. The disclosure of this infor­ mation helps the Parliament to judge whether the Advance is being used correctly. In particular, it minimises the temptation for the Executive Government to commence the funding of new programs, or controversial items, from the Advance and later to

present the Parliament with a fait accompli.

The Committee therefore recommends that the Senate should take steps to ensure that Departments should comply with the Department of Finance Estimates memorandum No. 2 of 1980 in future explanatory notes identify all expenditure already made from the Advance.

Attorney-General’s Department, Department of Employment and Youth Affairs:

The Committee considers that an important task of Senate Estimates Committees is to follow up comments on Departments made by the Auditor-General in his reports to the Parliament. We therefore asked the Departments before us in relation to the Additional Estimates whether action had been taken on items commented upon by the Auditor-General in his Report and Supplementary Report for 1978-79.

The Committee was concerned to find some evidence that problems noted by the Auditor-General were yet to be corrected. These concerned the Attorney-General’s Department, in relation to the Australian Institute of Criminology which paid salaries at unapproved rates, and the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs, in

relation to overpayments under the NEAT scheme.

Neither of these items was in fact appropriated for in the Additional Estimates. Moreover, the Committee was assured in both cases that steps were being taken to overcome the problems. However, we wish to take the opportunity to emphasise the importance we place on Departments taking prompt action in relation to the Auditor-

General’s reports. We intend to maintain a watching brief in the future to ensure that problems noted by the Auditor-General are corrected.

28

Department of Industrial Relations:

Format o f Explanatory Notes:

The standard form of explanatory notes recommended by Estimates Committees for the Additional Estimates is:

Actual

Additional Original Expenditure (C) Variation

Estimate (A) Appropriation (B) (previous year) (A + B) and C

© © © O /

V

This form aids comparability and aggregation of the Estimates. The Committee notes that the explanatory notes for the Department of Industrial Relations for 1979-80 did not comply with this form. We suggest that the Department follow the recommended standard in the future.

4. In conclusion, the Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Attorney-General and the officers of the various departments who assisted the Committee.

P. E. RAE Chairman

29 April 1980

29

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

i

ι

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.02 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 19 THURSDAY, 3 APRIL 1980

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals o f the Senate, 1 April 1980, recording the change in membership of the Committee was reported.

Senators Messner and Young had been discharged from further attendance on the Committee and Senators Hamer and Lewis had been appointed.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80: The Committee discussed the explanatory notes accompanying the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1979-80 for the following Departments:

Attorney-General’s Industrial Relations Employment and Youth Affairs Business and Consumer Affairs

It was agreed that members of the Committee should notify the Secretariat of any matters of special interest before the next meeting.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.15 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senator Rae (Chairman), and Senators Button and Hamer. Apologies were received from Senators Evans, Lewis and Tate.

P. E. RAE Chairm an

33

24846/80—2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.38 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 20 TUESDAY, 15 APRIL 1980

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1980.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-Genera?s Department:

Mr A. C. C. Menzies, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr B. J. O’Donovan, Crown Solicitor Mr L. G. Glare, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Special Services Division

Mr L. R. Curtis, First Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Division Mr A. R. Watson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division Mr N. E. Sainsbury, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Judicial Administration Mr P. E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr J. F. Thomson, Assistant Director, Australian Legal Aid Office Mr M. G. Dwyer, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch Mr A. T. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Mr J. P. Harkins, Deputy Chairman, Commonwealth Legal Aid Commission Mr R. Mills, Registrar, Administrative Appeals Tribunal Dr G. A. S. Taylor, Director of Research, Administrative Review Council Mr A. B. French, Director of Finance, Central Office Mr R. Venables, Acting Senior Finance Officer, Central Office Mr W. J. Rose, First Assistant Secretary, Advisings Division

Department o f Finance:

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 165-192 — Attorney-General’s Department (Document A) Divisions 823-825 — Attorney-General’s Department (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Attorney-General’s Department.

34

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Industrial Relations:

Mr Μ. B. Keogh, Secretary Mr J. Maher, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Woodrow, First Assistant Secretary, Labour Economics, Review and Services

Mr K. A. Power, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr F. B. Kovachevich, Director, Finance and Services

Industrial Relations Bureau:

Mr C. K. Wood, Deputy Director Mr E. H. Lamb, Assistant Director, Management

Trade Union Training Authority:

Commissioner Μ. E. Heagney, National Director Mr P. A. Wade, Administrator

Department o f Finance: Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 370-378 — Department of Industrial Relations (Document A)

The Committee suspended its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Industrial Relations.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.08 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman), Senator J. N. Button, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, Senator A. W. R. Lewis and Senator M. C. Tate.

P. E. RAE Chairman

35

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE B

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 21

THURSDAY, 17 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.15 p.m. The Acting Chairman (Senator Hamer) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS (continued):

Appearing: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Industrial Relations: Mr Μ. B. Keogh, Secretary Mr J. Maher, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Woodrow, First Assistant Secretary, Labour Economics, Review and

Services Mr K. A. Power, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr F. B. Kovachevich, Director, Finance and Services Department o f Finance:

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr A. Chapman, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Acting Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Division 370 — Department of Industrial Relations (Document A)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Industrial Relations.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND YOUTH AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Employment and Youth Affairs: Mr J. E. Cooley, First Assistant Secretary, Manpower Programs and Policy Division Mr C. J. Madden, Assistant Secretary, Employment Operations Branch Mr D. Poulter, Assistant Secretary, Training Programs Branch

Mr P. G. Bush, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office of Youth Affairs Mr B. Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Finance Mr E. Flood, Principal Executive Officer, Budgetary Finance Mr G. M. Lane, Acting Senior Executive Officer, Budgetary Finance Mr A. Walsh, Principal Executive Officer, Community Youth Support Scheme

Section, Employment Policy and Programs Branch Department o f Finance: Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr A. Chapman, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

36

The Acting Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 286-288 — Department of Employment and Youth Affairs (Document A) Division 840 — Department of Employment and Youth Affairs (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80 — DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Business and Consumer Affairs: Mr J. L. Gibson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr N. A. Custance, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr J. Drury, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Mr K. O. Stilling, Assistant Secretary, ADP Mr R. J. Schoer, Assistant Secretary, Companies and Securities Mr H. McMahon, Acting Assistant Secretary, Inspection and Controls Mr J. L. Reilly, Director, Finance and Property Mr M. Mikk, Assistant Director, Finance Mr J. Moloney, Acting Director, Inland Services Mr R. M. Hullick, Finance Officer Mr M. Le Savage, Acting Director, Competition Policy Trade Practices Commission:

Mr S. Malouf, Secretary Mr D. Gill, Director, Management Services Prices Justification Tribunal: Mr N. F. Brown, Registrar

Department o f Finance: Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr A. Chapman, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Acting Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 195-201 — Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document A) Division 827 — Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs.

5. ADJOURNM ENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.35 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman), Senator D. J. Hamer (Acting Chairman), Senator G. J. Evans, Senator A. W. R. Lewis, Senator M. C. Tate.

37

P. E. RAE Chairman

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

2. MINUTES: On the motion of Senator Button, the Minutes of the Meetings of 15 and 17 April 1980 were confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT REPORT: The Committee proceeded to consider the Report, which was agreed to without amendment.

4. ADDITIONAL REPLIES: The Committee resolved that additional replies received by the Committee from Departments be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the Hansard record of the Committee’s proceedings.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.08 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman) Senator J. N. Button Senator M. C. Tate

Apologies were received from Senator D. J. Hamer, D.S.C., Senator G. J. Evans and Senator A. W. R. Lewis.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 22 TUESDAY, 29 APRIL 1980

P. E. RAE Chairman

38

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 1 April 1980, the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for the year 1979-80 relating to the following Departments:

Social Security Finance Health Veterans’ Affairs Immigration and Ethnic Affairs and altered the membership of the Committee by appointing Senator Sheil in place

of Senator Kilgariff.

2. The Committee considered the Additional Estimates and received explanations from the Minister for Social Security (Senator Dame Margaret Guilfoyle) and officers of the various Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the

Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1979-80 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1979-80.

3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

4. The Committee notes that the Annua! Report of the Health Insurance Commission for 1978-79 has not yet been presented to Parliament. The Committee also notes the explanations given at the hearings of the difficulties facing the Commission in the pre­ paration of its Annual Report as a result of major changes to the functions of the

Commission on 1 November 1978. However, the Committee finds it unsatisfactory that in these circumstances neither an interim report nor a statement explaining the delays has been submitted to the Parliament. A statement or an interim report should be presented as soon as possible and some indication should be given of when the final report is likely to be tabled.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the evidence given by the Minister for Social Security and officers of the various Departments whose Estimates the Com­ mittee considered.

SHIRLEY WALTERS Chairman

41

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE C

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

TUESDAY, 15 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.37 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Walters) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory statement.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80: Pursuant to Order of the Senate, the Committee com­ menced consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed

Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending 30 June 1980 as follows:

Docu- Division

ment* Page No. Department Amount

A 54 590 S o c ia l S ecu rity .

$

5 668 000

B 13 940 S o cial S ecu rity . 21 000

A 27 304-308 F in a n c e . . 651 000

B 8 -9 84 5 -8 4 6 F in a n c e . . 10 863 000

A 31 325-329 H e a lth . . 11 192 000

B 9 856-857 H e a lth . . 736 000

A 6 1 -6 3 690-693 V e te ra n s ’ A ffairs 23 490 000

A 3 6 -3 7 360-365 Im m ig ra tio n a n d E th n ic A ffairs . 2 401 000

B 10 870 Im m ig ra tio n a n d E th n ic A ffairs . 50 000

* D ocum ent A— ‘P articulars o f P roposed A dditional E xpenditure for the Service o f the year ending on 30 Ju n e 1980’. * D ocum ent B— ‘P articulars o f C ertain P roposed A dditional E xpenditure in respect o f the year ending on 30 Ju n e 1980’.

4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Social Security: Mr J. T. O’Connor, Deputy Director-General Mr J. M. Mahoney, First Assistant Director-General, Benefits Mr D. Corrigan, First Assistant Director-General, Management

Mr A. S. Colliver, First Assistant Director-General, Social Welfare Mrs Μ. Y. Coleman, Director, Office of Child Care Mr R. Conwell, Assistant Director-General, Policy and Eligibility Mr K. Horsham, Assistant Director-General, Subsidies Mr D. R. Scott, Assistant Director-General, Management Services Mr C. Calvert, Assistant Director-General, Finance Mr J. A. Lucas, Principal Executive Officer, Office of Child Care Mr A. Podger, Assistant Director-General, Policy Review

45

Department o f Finance:

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 590, 940, Department of Social Security.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure:

Division 590 — Social Security $5 668 000 (Document A) Division 940 — Social Security $21 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department completed, subject to an under­ taking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security and Minister representing the Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Finance:

Mr J. R. Bennett, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr A. D. Preston-Stanley, Director, Finance and General Mr G. M. Wauchop, Director, Personnel and Establishments Mr I. M. Briggs, Finance Officer, Estimates and Accounts Mr C. F. Niddrie, Assistant Finance Officer, Estimates and Accounts Mr G. R. Potts, Assistant Secretary, Development Branch Mr M. Pellegrino, Finance Officer, Development Branch Mr W. J. Brophy, Director, ADP Branch Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting Development Branch Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting Development Branch Mr B. K. Conroy, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting Development Branch

Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office:

Mr B. A. Lorenz, Assistant Secretary, Administration Mr S. J. Lalor, Acting Director, Services Mr R. R. Jackson, Finance Officer

Office of the Superannuation Fund Investment Trust:

Mr W. J. Gynn, Secretary

The Chairman called on Divisions 304-308, 845-846, Department of Finance.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure: Divisions 304-308 — Finance $651 000 (Document A) Divisions 845-846 — Finance ($10 863 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department completed, subject to an under­ taking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

46

6. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security and Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Immigration and Ethnic Affairs:

Mr N. Fisher, First Assistant Secretary, Division 2 Mr S, R. Lewis, Assistant Secretary, Citizenship Branch Mr A, W. Burt, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Branch Mr I. Simmington, Assistant Secretary, Refugees and Special Programs

Branch Mr W. Johns, Director, Posts Liaison Section, Program Control and Develop­ ment Branch Mr J. S. Mulcahy, Executive Director, Committee on Overseas Professional

Qualifications Mr T. Hogg, Institute of Multicultural Affairs, Melbourne

Department o f Finance:

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 360-365, 870, Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure: Divisions 360-365 — Immigration and Ethnic Affairs $2 401 000 (Document A)

Division 870 — Immigration and Ethnic Affairs $50 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department completed, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

7. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security and Minister representing the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Veterans' Affairs: Mr N. Trabinger, Acting First Assistant Commissioner, Management Services Division Mr G. A. Woodward, Assistant Commissioner (Finance), Management

Services Division Mr K. H. Ryan, Director (Finance Operations), Management Services Division Mr T. S. Hughes, Assistant Director (Budgets), Management Services Division Dr Μ. M. Kehoe, Deputy Chief Director (Medical Services), Medical Division Mr B. E. O’Shannassy, Assistant Commissioner (General Treatment), Treat­

ment Services Division

47

Mr R. J. Hill, Assistant Commissioner (Benefits), Benefits and Legislation Division Mr A. J. Selleck, General Manager, Defence Service Homes Corporation Mr J. T. Reynolds, Director (Finance Management), Defence Service Homes

Corporation

Department o f Finance: Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 690-693, Department of Veterans’ Affairs.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure: Divisions 690-693 — Veterans’ Affairs $23 490 000 (Document A) And Division 690 being considered by the Committee.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.12 p.m.

9. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Walters (Chairman), and Senators Bonner, Grimes, Mulvihill and Sheil.

Senators Knight and Melzer were also in attendance.

SHIRLEY WALTERS Chairman

48

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE C

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 19

M ONDAY, 21 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.16 p.m.

2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security and Minister representing the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Veterans' Affairs: Mr G. T. Miller, First Assistant Commissioner, Management Services Division Mr N. Trabinger, Assistant Commissioner (Manpower and Services), Manage­ ment Services Division

Mr G. A. Woodward, Assistant Commissioner (Finance), Management Services Division Mr A. G. Laube, Acting Director (Finance Operations), Management Services Division

Mr T. S. Hughes, Assistant Director (Budgets), Management Services Division Dr Μ. M. Kehoe, Deputy Chief Director (Medical Services), Medical Division Mr B. E. O’Shannassy, Assistant Commissioner (General Treatment), Treat­ ment Services Division

Mr R. J. Hill, Assistant Commissioner (Benefits), Benefits and Legislation Division Mr A. J. Selleck, General Manager, Defence Service Homes Corporation Mr J. T. Reynolds, Director (Finance Management), Defence Service Homes

Corporation Department o f Finance: Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Consideration resumed of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure:

Divisions 690-693 — Veterans’ Affairs $23 490 000 (Document A) Consideration of the Estimates for the Department completed, subject to an under­ taking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Social Security and Minister representing the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Health:

Mr C. A. Nettle, Deputy Director-General Mr L. W. Lane, First Assistant Director-General, Management Services Division

49

Mr J. McCauley, First Assistant Director-General, Health Services Division Mr R. H. Searle, First Assistant Director-General, Quarantine Division Dr D. B. Travers, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Services Division Mr M. Carroll, First Assistant Director-General, Insurance, Hospitals and

Nursing Homes Division Dr K. W. Edmondson, First Assistant Director-General, Therapeutics Division Dr W. A. Langsford, First Assistant Director-General, Public Health Division Dr C. Selby Smith, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Benefits Division Mr J. W. Shaw, Assistant Director-General, Finance, Pharmacy Earnings and

Projects Branch Mr G. F. Bunfield, Director, Finance Mr R. A. Foskett, First Assistant Commissioner, Capital Territory Health Commission Mr A. J. Tozer, Assistant Commissioner, Capital Territory Health Commission Mr D. Lambart, Director, Research, Planning and Evaluation, Capital Ter­

ritory Health Commission Mr C. R. Wilcox, Deputy General Manager, Health Insurance Commission

Department o f Finance:

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 325-329, 856-857, Department of Health.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure:

Divisions 325-329 — Health $11 192 000 (Document A) Divisions 856-857 — Health $736 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates for the Department completed, subject to an under­ taking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.13 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Walters (Chairman), and Senators Grimes, Mulvihill and Sheil.

SHIRLEY WALTERS Chairman

50

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE C

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 20

W EDNESDAY, 23 APRIL 1980

1. DELIBERATIVE MEETING: The Committee met at 6.00 p.m.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 15 April 1980 and 21 April 1980 were read and confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT: The Chairman presented her Draft Report to the Committee.

Discussion ensued. Resolved: That the Report be agreed to.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Walters (Chairman), and Senators Bonner, Grimes, Mulvihill and Shell.

SHIRLEY WALTERS Chairman

51

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

*

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D REPORT TO THE SENATE Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its report to the Senate.

1. On 1 April 1980 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates of proposed Additional Expenditure for the year ending on 30 June 1980, as contained in the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in

respect of the year ending on 30 June 1980 in relation to the following Departments: Aboriginal Affairs Industry and Commerce Transport

Productivity Science and the Environment

2. The Committee has considered the Departmental Estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and from officers of the Departments concerned. A copy of the Hansard report of the evidence is tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3)

1979-80 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1979-80.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matter:

Department of Transport— Estimates During the Committee’s examination of the Estimates for the Department of Trans­ port it was revealed that the amounts under many items had not been finalised at the time of the Tabling of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure. Under the items in question, the Department had made a statement that a lesser amount than it had sought ‘had been made available by the Government subject to further review’.

Details are as follows:

Division

Amount sought by

Department o f

Transport

Amount granted by

Department o f Finance

655/1 /0 2 O v e r t i m e ........................................................................ 255 000

$

200 000

655/2/01 T ra v e llin g a n d su b siste n c e . . . . 560 000 445 000

655/2/05 F u e l, lig h t a n d p o w e r . . . . . 1 600 000 1 500 000

655/2/06 F ir e services . . . . . . . 70 000 50 000

655/2/08 S ta ff tr a in in g . . . . . . 100 000 70 000

655/2/12 A ir t r a n s p o r t m o v a b le p la n t m a in te n a n c e —

m a te ria ls a n d services . . . . 100 000 70 000

6 5 5/2/14 G e n e ra l s to re s . . . . . . 50 000 30 000

655/2/22 In c id e n ta l a n d o th e r e x p e n d itu re . . . 150 000 80 000

The Minister for Finance has written to the Committee (see Annexure A) saying, among other things, that the Advance to the Minister for Finance will be used to make up extra amounts which may be agreed to after further discussions between the Ministers.

55

The Committee is of the opinion that:

(a) it is desirable that estimates of amounts to be spent by Departments should be settled by the time Appropriation Bills are introduced into the Parliament, and (b) the Advance to the Mimster for Finance should not be used to cover any expenditure which is acknowledged to be outstanding at the time of the

introduction of the Appropriation Bills in cases such as the one under report.

The Minister for Finance has acknowledged that the Government has not finalised these Estimates according to its own time-table. As a result, the Estimates are in­ complete. The Committee gives notice that it will not proceed to the consideration of unresolved and incomplete Estimates in the future.

The Committee is also concerned at another matter which arises out of the Department of Transport’s estimates, and which relates to the proper functioning of the Department.

The Department has a vital role in co-ordinating transport in Australia, especially in relation to air safety. As outlined above, the Government has not provided the funds the Department has said it requires to properly carry out its work.

The Committee invites an assurance from the Minister representing the Minister for Transport, during consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1979-80 in Com­ mittee of the Whole Senate, that the Department’s activities, especially in relation to ensuring the safety of the travelling public, will not be adversely affected by lack of funds.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and the officers of the Departments concerned in providing full and frank explanations. The Committee also thanks the Departments concerned for

the comprehensive nature of the explanatory notes which allowed the Committee to carry out its task expeditiously.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

56

M I N I S T E R F O R F IN A N C E

Annexure A

P a rlia m e n t H o u s e

C a n b e rra A C T 2600

3 A p ril 1980

Senator M. Townley Chairman Senate Estimates Committee D Parliament House Canberra, A.C.T. 2600

Dear Senator I am writing to you in connection with a matter which may come to your Committee’s notice when it examines the additional appropriations sought for the Department of Transport in Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1979-80.

I refer to the following proposed appropriations:

8

Division— 655/1/02 — Overtime . . . . . . . 200 000

655/2/01 — Travelling and subsistence . . . . 445 000

655/2/05 — Fuel, light and power . . . . . 1 500 000

655/2/06 — Fire services . . . . . . . 50 000

655/2/08 — Staff training . . . . . . 70 000

655/2/12 — Air transport movable plant maintenance— materials and services . . . . . 70 000

655/2/14 — General stores . . . . . . 30 000

655/2/22 — Incidental and other expenditure . . . 80 000

I write to let you know that the above amounts are less than the amounts which the Department of Transport, with the support of its Minister, sought for those items in the context of the Additional Estimates. For reasons directly connected with the agreed timetable for the introduction of the Additional Estimates Bills, the

Government agreed that the amounts included by me in the draft Bills, namely as listed above, should stand and that the Ministers for Finance and Transport reach agreement after discussions with officials from their Departments, with any agreed

sum to be provided from the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The discussions have commenced and I hope to reach agreement with the Minister for Transport as soon as possible.

I add that the use of the Advance to the Minister for Finance in such circumstances does not in any way cut across the established principles for the use of the Advances. The Government was not able to resolve the points at issue in time for inclusion in the Bill of whatever amounts might ultimately be considered to be appropriate and

it would not have been proper to have included higher amounts in the Bill in anticipation of any such decision. The Bill therefore contains amounts which, at the relevant time, the Government was confident were required to support the services for the remainder of the financial year.

Yours sincerely ERIC L. ROBINSON

57

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

■ii

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE D

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 16

W EDNESDAY, 2 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 7.

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals o f the Senate 1 April 1980 recording the change in membership of the Committee was reported. Senators Archer, Maunsell, Primmer, Rocher and Walsh had been discharged

from further attendance on the Committee, and Senators Elstob, Gietzelt, Jessop, MacGibbon and Townley had been appointed.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The secretary of the Committee then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Townley was nominated by Senator Elstob, seconded Senator Jessop, And there being no further nominations

Senator Townley thereupon took the Chair

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80:

The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate of 1 April 1980 referring to Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1979-80 for the following Departments

Aboriginal Affairs Industry and Commerce Transport Productivity

Science and the Environment

5. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed the Sec­ retariat should proceed to researching the Estimates according to established practice, and that Departments should be considered in an order which would cause the least inconvenience and expense to those Departments who had officers travelling from

interstate. At the suggestion of Senator Elstob, it was agreed that the late presentation of annual reports was a subject on which Departments should be examined.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.08 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Townley (Chairman), and Senators Elstob, Gietzelt, Jessop and MacGibbon.

THE SENATE

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

61

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

THURSDAY, 17 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 2.15 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room No. 1. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory statement, and reported that the Senate had referred the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for certain Departments to the Committee for examination, and report thereon, by on or before Tuesday, 29 April 1980.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80: Pursuant to order of the Senate, the Committee com­ menced consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1980 relating to the following departmental estimates:

Departmental Estimates to be Examined (Minister: Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney)

THE SENATE

Docu- Division

ment* Page No. Department Amount

A 6 -7 120-125 A b o rig in a l A ffairs . .

$

. 2 310 000

B 4 813-814 A b o rig in a l A ffairs . . . 57 000

A 39 380 In d u s try a n d C o m m e rc e . . 1 163 000

B 11 878 In d u s try a n d C o m m e rc e . . 29 000

A 58 65 5 -6 6 2 T ra n s p o r t . . . . . 12 250 000

B 13 9 5 7 -9 5 9 T ra n s p o r t . . . . . 1 099 000

A 4 9 -5 0 522-528 P ro d u c tiv ity . . . . 6 929 000

B 12 921 P ro d u c tiv ity . . . . 5 600 000

A 5 1 -5 3 540-558 S cience a n d th e E n v iro n m e n t . 4 207 000

B 12-13 927-928 S cience a n d th e E n v iro n m e n t . 1 1 8 0 0 0

* D ocum ent A— ‘P articulars o f Proposed A dditional Expenditure for the Service o f the year ending on 30 June 1980’. * D ocum ent B— ‘P articulars o f Certain Proposed A dditional Expenditure in respect o f the year ending on 30 June 1980’.

The Chairman stated that in order to minimise any possible inconvenience or expense to Departments who had officers travelling interstate, the Committee had agreed to consider the Departmental Estimates in the following order: Aboriginal Affairs

Industry and Commerce Science and the Environment Transport Productivity

62

4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Aboriginal Affairs: Mr A. J. Ayers, Secretary, Mr C. N. Perkins, Deputy Secretary Mr L. A. J. Malone, First Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination Division

Mr G. Brownbill, First Assistant Secretary, Development Division Mr N. J. L. Jansz, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr R. A. Jenkins, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr R. Toohey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Program Branch

Mr W. E. Miller, Acting Director, Program Development Mr P. Gulliver, Assistant Director, Planning Division (Queensland Branch) Department o f Finance: Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 120-125 and 813-814, Department of Aboriginal

Affairs.

The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were examined: Divisions 120-125 — Aboriginal Affairs $2 310 000 (Document A) Divisions 813-814 — Aboriginal Affairs $57 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Minister representing the Minister for Industry and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Industry and Commerce: Mr G. Collopy, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Industry Division No. 2 Mr L. F. Milkovits, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services and Secretariat Branch

Mr R. Samarcq, Director, Industry Policy Section Mr P. Baxter, Director, Consultation Section Mr K. A. Dundo, Acting Director, Finance and Services Section Ms L. H. Fulton, Assistant Director, Accommodation Industry Section Department o f Finance:

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 380 and 878, Department of Industry and Commerce. The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were examined: Division 380 — Industry and Commerce $1 163 000 (Document A)

Division 878 — Industry and Commerce $29 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates completed, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

63

6. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND THE ENVIRONMENT:

Appearing; Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Minister representing the Minister of Science and the Environment, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Science and the Environment:

Mr P. B. Free, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr C. A. Webster, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr C. G. McCue, Acting Director, Antarctic Division Dr J. S. Bunt, Director, Australian Institute of Marine Science

Mr S. J. Woodley, Acting Assistant Executive Officer, Secretariat and Services, Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority Mr R. S. Hooker, Director, Finance and Supply Section Mr S. K. Lees, Finance Officer, Budget Sub-section Ms E. Gladwin, Estimates Officer, Budget Sub-section Mr R. Crowder, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Operations and Management

Division

Department o f Finance: Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 540-558, and 927-928, Department of Science and the Environment.

The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were examined:

Divisions 540-558 — Science and the Environment $4 207 000 (Document A) Divisions 927-928 — Science and the Environment SI 18 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates completed, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

7. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Minister representing the Minister for Transport, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Transport: Mr G. Birch, First Assistant Secretary, Finance and Commercial Division Mr J. Schofield, First Assistant Secretary, Airways Operations Division Mr G. O’Halloran, Director Finance (Budget Section)

Mr K. Smith, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch Mr D. O’Brien, Assistant Secretary, Coastal and Overseas Bulk Branch Mr D. Langford, Director, Rail Branch Mr A. Rainbird, Assistant Secretary, Bilateral Relations Branch Mr B. Dockrill, Assistant Secretary, Economic Policy and Investment Plan­

ning Branch Mr L. Hutchins, Australian National Railways, Budget Officer

64

Department o f Finance:

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr E. P. R. Bowen, Chief Finance Officer

The Chairman called on Divisions 655-662 and 957-959, Department of Transport. The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were examined: Divisions 655-662 — Transport $12 250 000 (Document A) Divisions 957-959 — Transport $1 099 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates completed, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

8. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF PRODUCTIVITY:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Minister representing the Minister for Productivity, accompanied by the fol­ lowing officers:

Department o f Productivity:

Mr P. G. Gifford, First Assistant Secretary, Finance and Management Services Division Mr K. McKnown, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Finance and Man­ agement Services Division Mr W. M. Drysdale, Director (Programs and Estimates), Finance and Man­

agement Services Division Mr V. R. Coleman, Assistant Controller, Aircraft Branch, Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division Mr R. S. Thompson, Controller, Munitions Supply Division

Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer, Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division Mr J. Forestier, Senior Assistant Commissioner (Business Management), Patent Trade Marks and Designs Office Miss J. R. Boston, Patents and Licensing Officer, Marketing Branch Mr P. Schultz, Assistant Secretary, Technology Development Branch, Pro­

ductivity Development Division Mr D. R. Toovey, Assistant Secretary, Physical Working Environment Branch, Working Environment Division Mr W. Budd, Assistant Director (Aircraft), Aircraft, Guided Weapons and

Electronics Supply Division

Department o f Finance: Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 522-528 and 921, Department of Productivity.

The following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure were examined:

Divisions 522-528 — Productivity $6 929 000 (Document A) Division 921 — Productivity $5 600 000 (Document B)

Consideration of the Estimates completed, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

9. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.59 p.m.

65

24846/80—4

10. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were in attendance: Senator Townley (Chairman), and Senators Elstob, Gietzelt, Jessop, MacGibbon and Robertson.

Senator Mulvihill was also in attendance.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE D

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

W EDNESDAY, 23 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 2 and 17 April 1980 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Townley (Chairman), Senator MacGibbon, Senator Robertson.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

67

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE D

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 19

TUESDAY, 29 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 12.00 noon. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meeting held on 23 April were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee further considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate.

Resolved: That the Report be adopted with an Amendment.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Townley (Chairman), Senator Elstob, Senator Jessop, Senator MacGibbon, Senator Robertson.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

68

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE REPORT

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Estimates Committee E has the honour to present its report to the Senate.

2. On 1 April 1980 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates of Expenditure for the year ending 1979-80, relating to the following Departments:

Special Trade Representative Primary Industry Home Affairs Capital Territory

Housing and Construction

3. The Committee has considered the Estimates of Additional Expenditure and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Special Trade Representations and from officers of the Departments concerned. The Minutes of Proceedings of the

Committee are attached to this Report and the Hansard report of evidence taken is presented herewith. Further written explanations furnished by Departments will be presented separately and printed in the Hansard record.

4. The attention of the Senate is drawn to the following:

(i) Department of the Capital Territory—Social Welfare (Division 210.3.06)

During the hearings (Hansard, 17 April 1980, page 202) the Committee expressed its concern about the description in the Department’s Explanatory Notes of the transfer of expenditure from Division 210.3.06 to Division 210.3.22. An amount of $230 000, described as a bus subsidy for pensioners,

appears as an increase in the Department’s requirements under Division 210.3.22 yet there is not a commensurate reduction in requirements under Division 210.3.06. The Committee was informed that authority for expenditure under Division 210.3.06 had been ‘frozen’ to the extent of $230 000 and expenditure for the pensioner bus subsidy would be authorised under Division

210.3.22.

Since the hearings, the Committee has received further written explanations from the Department which state that in such circumstances the general practice is to offset any additional requirements under an Item against any savings within that Item. In this instance the practice was not followed due to an

oversight. Had general practice been followed, the result would have been a saving under Division 210.3.06 of $177 200 rather than the additional appro­ priation of $52 800 which has been sought.

In its explanations the Department of the Capital Territory, in part, states:

T h e o v e rs ig h t o n th e p a rt o f th is D e p a rtm e n t a n d th e D e p a rtm e n t o f F in a n c e

a ro s e fro m th e tre a tm e n t o f th e d isc lo su re by w ay o f a d d itio n a l a p p ro p r ia tio n

o f th e fu r th e r fu n d s re q u ire m e n ts fo r th e re s id u a l fu n c tio n o f D iv isio n 210/3/06

as a se p a ra te exercise to th e w ith d ra w a l o f th e e x p e n d itu re a u th o r ity fo r th e

in itia l $230 000 in clu d ed u n d e r D iv isio n 210/3/06. T h is w ith d ra w a l w as seen

as a n offset fo r th e e q u iv a le n t a p p ro p r ia tio n m a d e u n d e r D iv isio n 210/3/22.

T h e fu rth e r ste p o f id e n tify in g th e re s u lta n t c re d it u n d e r D iv isio n 210/3 /0 6 to

71

offset a n y p o ssib le a d d itio n a l re q u ire m e n ts elsew h ere in th a t ite m w as o v e rlo o k e d . T h is d is c re p a n c y h a v in g been b ro u g h t to o u r a tte n tio n a c tio n will be ta k e n to

e n su re th a t o u r p ro c e d u re s, a n d th o s e o f th e D e p a rtm e n t o f F in a n c e , a re a m e n d e d to p re v e n t a sim ila r o c c u rre n c e in th e fu tu re .

Whilst accepting these explanations, the Committee is concerned that the financial control systems of the Departments of Finance and the Capital Territory allowed the oversight to occur. The fact remains that the Additional Estimates of the Department of the Capital Territory have been erroneously inflated by an amount of $230 000. The Committee will make inquiries of the

Department during the Budget Estimates hearings in respect of amendments to procedures which have been adopted by the Departments to avoid a recur­ rence of this situation.

(ii) Department o f the Capital Territory—ACT Police (Division 213) The Committee has cause to comment upon the description in the Explana­ tory Notes of the changes in the Department’s requirements for expenditure which accompanied the transfer of the ACT Police to the newly created Austra­ lian Federal Police. In a preamble to the Notes for this Division, the Depart­ ment has provide a general description of the reasons for its additional ex­ penditure requirements. There are, however, no further explanations accom­ panying individual Items within the Division.

The Committee is of the opinion that proper Parliamentary scrutiny of the Estimates depends upon adequate descriptions of each Item in the Explanatory Notes. Where appropriations are sought for extraordinary or non-recurrent purposes, these descriptions must of necessity be more detailed.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Minister for Special Trade Representations and of the officers of the Departments.

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

72

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

24846/80—4

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE E

M INUTES O F PROCEEDINGS

No. 16

W EDNESDAY, 2 APRIL 1980

1. M EETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.00 p.m.

2. RESOLUTIONS OF THE SENATE: The Secretary reported the resolution of the Senate of 1 April 1980 referring the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1980 to

Estimates Committees for examination and report, and that Estimates Committee E consider the Proposed Additional Expenditure in relation to the Departments of: Special Trade Representative Primary Industry

Home Affairs Capital Territory Housing and Construction

The Secretary reported also the resolution of the Senate of 1 April 1980 relating to the appointments of Senators Archer, Collard, McAulifife, Primmer, Rocher and Walsh to the Committee in place of Senators Bishop, Elstob, Jessop, MacGibbon, McIntosh and Townley.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for the position of Chairman. Senator Collard having been proposed by Senator Archer, seconded Senator McAuliffe, was elected unopposed.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6,07 p.m. until a date and hour to be fixed.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator Collard (Chairman), Senators Archer, McAuliffe, Rocher and Walsh.

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

75

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

THURSDAY, 17 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.15 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.

2. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The resolution of the Senate of 1 April 1980, relating to the referral to Estimates Committee E of the Particulars of Additional Estimates of Expenditure for the year ending 30 June 1980, was reported·

3. CHANGES TO MEMBERSHIP: The resolution of the Senate of 1 April 1980, relating to the appointments of Senators Archer, Collard, McAuliffe, Primmer, Rocher and Walsh to the Committee in place of Senators Bishop, Elstob, Jessop, MacGibbon, McIntosh and Townley, was reported.

4. CORRECTIONS TO EXPLANATORY NOTES: The Chairman reported that notice had been received of corrections to the Explanatory Notes of the Departments of Home Affairs and Housing and Construction as follows:

D e p a rtm e n t o f H o m e A ffairs In reply please q u o te : 80/270

P.O. Box 1252

C anberra City, A.C.T. 2601

15 April 1980

M r R . A lliso n

S e c re ta ry S e n a te E s tim a te s C o m m itte e Έ* P a rlia m e n t H o u s e C a n b e rra , A .C .T . 2600

Department of Home Affairs

Additional Estimates Explanations

T h e A d d itio n a l E stim a te s E x p la n a tio n s fo r th is D e p a rtm e n t w ere fo rw a rd e d to th e

S e n a te R e c o rd s Office o n 3 A p ril 1980. S u b se q u e n tly tw o m in o r e rro rs h a v e been fo u n d on P age 32 o f th e E x p la n a tio n s.

C o rre c tio n s a re to be m a d e to tw o fig u res in th e ‘A d d itio n a l E s tim a te ’ c o lu m n o f th e

‘D issection" ta b le . T h e figure fo r ‘M eal A llo w a n c e ’ sh o u ld n o w re a d $1600 in lieu o f $1500 a n d th e A d d itio n a l E stim a te to ta l s h o u ld be a m e n d e d to $20 500 n o t $20 400 as sh o w n . It

w o u ld b e a p p re c ia te d if y o u c o u ld ad v ise h o ld e rs o f copies o f th e e x p la n a to ry n o te s o f these c o rre c tio n s.

76

T. F . F O W L E R

fo r S ecretary

D E P A R T M E N T O F H O U S IN G A N D C O N S T R U C T IO N

C entral Office

470 N o rth b o u rn e Avenue, D ickson, A C T 2602 P.O . B ox 111, D ickson, A C T 2602

15 April 1980

T h e S e c re ta ry S e n a te E s tim a te s C o m m itte e E

P a rlia m e n t H o u s e C a n b e rra , A .C .T .

Additional Estimates— 1979-80

A n a m o u n t o f S i l l 000 h a s b een s o u g h t in A d d itio n a l E stim a te s f o r D iv isio n 248

H o u s in g fo r S e rv ic e m e n — A d v a n c e s to S ta te s ; a D e p a rtm e n t o f D e fe n c e a p p ro p ria tio n

u n d e r th e c o n tr o l o f th e D e p a rtm e n t o f H o u s in g a n d C o n s tru c tio n .

A n e x p la n a tio n fo r th is ite m w as n o t in c lu d e d in th e D e p a rtm e n t o f H o u s in g a n d C o n ­

s tru c tio n ’s E x p la n a tio n s fo r A d d itio n a l P ro v is io n s B o o k let. O n e h u n d re d a n d fifty c o p ie s

o f th is e x p la n a tio n a re n o w en c lo se d f o r d is trib u tio n as n ecessary.

J. P. S P A R K E S

fo r S e c re ta ry

D E P A R T M E N T O F D E F E N C E A P P R O P R IA T IO N U N D E R T H E

C O N T R O L O F D E P A R T M E N T O F H O U S IN G A N D C O N S T R U C T IO N

D IV I S IO N : 248 H o u sin g fo r S e rv ic e m e n — A d v a n c e s to S tates

S U B -D IV IS IO N : IT E M :

Additional Estimate (A ) 19 7 9 -8 0

Original

(Appropriation) (B) 1 9 7 9 -8 0

Actual

Expenditure (C) 1978-79

Variation

(A + B ) and C

S S S S %

111 000 1 507 000 11 600 000 - 9 982 000 - 8 6 . 0

P U R P O S E O F I T E M : A d v a n c e s re p a y a b le o v e r fifty -th re e y e a rs w ith in te re st a t th e

lo n g -te rm b o n d ra te a re m a d e to S ta te s fo r c o n s tru c tio n a n d u p g ra d in g o f dw ellings w h ich

m u s t be re s e rv e d fo r a llo tm e n t to serv icem en . G E N E R A L C O M M E N T : N o new m a jo r c o n s tru c tio n o r u p g ra d in g p ro g ra m s h a v e

b een u n d e rta k e n sin ce 1976-77. A p p ro p ria tio n s since th e n h a v e b een fo r c o m p le tio n o f

p ro g r a m s o f e a rlie r y ears. P ro g ra m s a re n o w v irtu a lly c o m p le te d .

Original Additional

Dissection Appropriation Estimate Increase

$ S %

1 507 000 1 6 1 8 0 0 0 111 000

T h e n e e d fo r th e in c re a se o f S i l l 000 a rise s m a in ly fro m

re v isio n o f e stim a te s p ro v id e d b y N S W H o u sin g C o m m issio n o n d e te rm in a tio n o f final c o sts o n c o m p le tio n o f m a jo r c o n stru c tio n a n d u p g ra d in g c o n tra c ts .

These were ordered to be incorporated in Hansard.

77

5. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1980 and Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year

Ending on 30 June 1980, as apply to the following Departments:

Docu- Division

ment* Page No. Department Amount

A 55 620 S pecial T ra d e R e p re s e n ta tiv e .

$

20 000

A 4 4 -4 5 49 0 -4 9 7 P rim a ry In d u s try . . . 1 716 000

A 3 2 -3 4 330-344 H o m e A ffairs . . . . 1 409 000

B 10 862 H o m e A ffairs . . . . 200 000

A 17 -1 8 210-213 C a p ita l T e rrito ry . . . 3 725 000

B 6 -7 829-830 C a p ita l T e rrito ry . . . 6 375 000

A 35 350-358 H o u s in g a n d C o n s tru c tio n . . 2 456 000

A 22 246 R e p a irs a n d M a in te n a n c e (Defence) 2 285 000

A 22 248 H o u s in g fo r S erv icem en — A d v a n c e s 111 000

to S tates (Defence)

B 10 865 H o u s in g a n d C o n s tru c tio n . . 2 480 000

* D ocum ent A — ‘P articulars o f Proposed A dditional Expenditure for the Service o f the year ending on 30 Ju n e 1980’. * D ocum ent B— ‘Particulars o f Certain Proposed A dditional E xpenditure in respect o f the year ending on 30 June 1980’.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL TRADE REPRESENTATIVE:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. D. B. Scott, Minister for Special Trade Representations, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Special Trade Representative: Mr F. E. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Department of the Special Trade Representative Mr R. F. O’Donohue, Assistant Secretary, Department of the Special Trade

Representative Mr P. C. Laird, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts, Department of Trade and Resources

Department o f Finance: Mr L. E. J. Lillie, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Accounting Operations Branch, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration: Division 620 Department of the Special Trade Representative (Document A)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of the Special Trade Representative.

78

7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. D. B. Scott, Minister for Special Trade Representations, representing the Minister for Primary Industry, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Primary Industry: Mr L. C. Elliott, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr N. J. Thomson, Assistant Secretary, Industry No. 1 (Meat and Meat Products) Division

Mr A. H. Rowe, Principal Executive Officer, Industry No. 1 (Meat and Meat Products) Division Mr M. G. Jefferies, Chief Entomologist, Industry No. 3 (Field Crops) Division Mr W. J. Byrne, Acting Assistant Secretary, Industry No. 4 (Sugar and Hor­

ticultural Crops) Division Mr J. H. Dean, Director of Fish Exports Standards, Industry No. 5 (Fisheries) Division Mr P. G. Burns, Principal Executive Officer, Industry No. 5 (Fisheries) Division Mr G. M. Young, Principal Executive Officer, Agriculture and Food Services

Division Dr P. M. Symmons, Director, Australian Plague Locust Commission Mr J. A. Hart, Senior Assistant Director, Bureau of Animal Health Mr J. G. Digby, Assistant Director, Bureau of Animal Health

Dr W. J. Pryor, Assistant Director, Bureau of Animal Health Mr A. C. Kempe, Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Animal Health Mr D. D Hussey, Assistant Director, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Mr N. J. Lamb, Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Dr G. Evans, Secretariat of the Commonwealth Council for Rural Research

Mr J. F. Landos, Director, Management Services Branch Department of Finance: Mr L. E. J. Lillie, Senator Finance Officer, Grade 2, Accounting Operations Branch, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 490-497 Department of Primary Industry (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Primary Industry.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. D. B. Scott, Minister for Special Trade Representations, representing the Minister for Home Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Home Affairs: Mr A. W. McCasker, First Assistant Secretary, Territories Division

Co-ordination and Management Division: Mr B. W. Palmer, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr J. C. Logue, Acting Director, Management Services Branch Mr T. F. Fowler, Assistant Director, Finance and Services Section, Manage­

ment Services Branch Mr J. T. Davies, Heritage Section, Cultural Affairs Branch Mr P. Ryan, Museums and Collections Section, Cultural Affairs Branch

79

Territories Division: Mr K. P. Cooper, Assistant Secretary, Indian Ocean Territories Branch Mr V. Mawhinney, Indian Ocean Territories Branch Mr P. L. Brettell, Director, Sport and Recreation Branch Office of Women’s Affairs:

Ms C. M. Wiltshire, Acting Assistant Secretary Australian Archives: Professor R. G. Neale, Director-General Australian War Memorial:

Mr N. J. Flanagan, Director Mr M. D. G. Coley, Assistant Director, Administration and Technical Services Australian Film and Television School: Ms G. M. Carnegie, Head, Administration and Services Australian Film Commission:

Mr S. Martin, Acting Secretary Mr J. Wood, Executive Officer, Film Australia National Library of Australia: Mr G. Clark, Director, Management Services Department o f Finance:

Mr L. E. J. Lillie, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Accounting Operations Branch, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman reported that a letter had been received from the Department of Home Affairs advising the Committee that the Department had sought further moneys under the Advance to the Minister for Finance since the preparation of the Explanatory Notes.

D e p a rtm e n t o f H o m e A ffairs

T h e C h a irm a n S e n a te E stim a te s C o m m itte e Έ* P a rlia m e n t H o u se C a n b e rra , A .C .T . 2600

P. O . B ox 1252

C a n b e rra C ity, A C T 2601

16 A pril 1980

Department of Home Affairs Additional Estimates

S u b se q u e n t to th e p re p a ra tio n o f e x p la n a to ry n o te s it h a s b een n e c e ssa ry fo r th e D e p a r t­ m e n t to seek $28 000 fro m A d v a n c e to th e M in iste r fo r F in a n c e p e n d in g A d d itio n a l

E stim ates.

T h is a m o u n t w as re q u ire d u n d e r D iv is io n 330-2-06— A d m in istra tiv e (in c id e n ta l a n d

o th e r e x p e n d itu re ) to e n a b le th e D e p a rtm e n t to se ttle a c o m p e n s a tio n c la im a risin g fro m th e d e a th o f a fo rm e r em p lo y ee.

The letter was ordered to be incorporated in Hansard.

B. W . P A L M E R

fo r S ecretary

80

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 330-334 — Department of Home Affairs (Document A) Division 862 — Department of Home Affairs (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Home Affairs.

9. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF THE CAPITAL TERRITORY:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. D. B. Scott, Minister for Special Trade Representations, representing the Minister for the Capital Territory, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f the Capital Territory:

Mr D. M. Lalor, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr C. S. Hamilton, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and Supply Branch Mr R. J. O’Connell, Assistant Secretary, Systems Branch

Mr E. Mallett, Director, Planning and Services Section Mr Μ. M. van Gelder, Assistant Secretary, Establishments Branch Mr D. A. Brown, Acting Assistant Secretary, Welfare Branch Mr R. J. Donnellan, Assistant Secretary, Recreation and Tourism Branch

Mr V. F. Martisius, Assistant Secretary, Technical Services Branch Mr J. S. Brigg, Assistant Secretary, Rates Branch Mr J. H. Marshall, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Housing Division Miss L. M. Webb, Acting Assistant Secretary, Public Transit Branch

Mr K. B. Davidson, Assistant Secretary, Traffic and Transport Branch Mr R. H. Collis, Project Manager, A.D.P. Section, Housing Branch Mr W. E. Lawrence, First Assistant Secretary, Legislation and Policy Co­ ordination Division

Mr R. J. Gallagher, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Lands Division Mr F. Gnauck, Assistant Director, Conservation and Agriculture Section Mr M. W. Edgerley, Director, Forests Section Mr W. L. Antill, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Management Services,

Australian Federal Police Mr K. Sandoe, Acting Director, Finance and General Services, Australian Federal Police Mr R. E. Jackson, Assistant Executive Director, Canberra Development

Board

National Capital Development Commission:

Mr K. J. Curtis, Secretary Manager Mr N. Hart, Principal Executive Officer

Parliament House Construction Authority:

Mr G. R. Peatey, Executive Officer Mr J. D. Fowler, Interim Administrative Officer

A.C.T. House of Assembly: Mr I. F. McKendry, Clerk of the House of Assembly

81

Department o f Finance:

Mr L. E. J. Lillie, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Accounting Operations Branch, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration :

Divisions 210-213 — Department of the Capital Territory (Document A) Divisions 829-830 — Department of the Capital Territory (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of the Capital Territory.

10. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. D. B. Scott, Minister for Special Trade Representations, representing the Minister for Housing and Construction, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Housing and Construction:

Mr K. J. Rodda, Deputy Secretary Mr J. H. Gunn, Assistant Secretary (Works) Mr J. P. Sparkes, Acting Assistant Secretary (Finance) Mr R. J. Egan, Assistant Secretary (Public Housing)

Department o f Finance:

Mr L. E. J. Lillie, Senior Finance Officer, Grade 2, Accounting Operations Branch, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman reported that the Committee had received a document from the Department of Housing and Construction entitled ‘Details of items for which Funds have been issued from the Advance to the Minister for Finance after preparation of

Explanatory Notes—Appropriation Bills Nos 3 and 4’.

D etails o f item s for which funds have been issued from the A dvance to th e M in ister for F inance a fte r p rep aratio n o f E x p la n ato ry N o tes— A ppropriation B ills N o s 3 and 4

(In fo rm a tio n req u ested by D e p a rtm e n t o f F in a n c e in E stim ates M e m o ra n d u m 1980/2 o f 7 F e b ru a ry 1980)

Appropriation Warrant

item Description Amount number Date

$

3 5 0 -3 -0 5 P ay m en ts P u rs u a n t to S ection 3 4 a (i) o f the

Audit Act 1901 . . . . . . 700 639 2 6 .3 .8 0

Reason for Advance: T h e p a y m e n t o f $678.21 rep re sen ts a n a m o u n t e q u a l to p ay in lieu o f re c re a tio n leave d u e to a deceased em ployee a n d w hich w as p a id to his esta te in ste a d o f to h is de facto wife.

C IV IL C A P IT A L W O R K S

8 6 5 -1 -0 4 A tto rn e y -G e n e ra l’s D e p a rtm e n t . . . 170 000 3 162 1 .4 .8 0

Reason for Advance: In cre ased e x p e n d itu re o n th e A lice S prings L aw C o u rts.

8 6 5 -1 -0 6 D e p a rtm e n t o f C a p ital T e rrito ry . . . 10 500 3 164 3 .3 .8 0

Reason for Advance: In cre ase in a n u m b e r o f m iscellaneous sm all projects.

T h e a b o v e a m o u n ts a re included in th e a d d itio n a l estim ates so u g h t by th e D e p a rtm e n t.

82

The Document was ordered to be incorporated in Hansard.

The Minister made a statement relating to the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction.

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 350-358 — Department of Housing and Construction (Document A) Division 246 — Repairs and Maintenance (Defence) (Document A) Division 248 — Housing for Servicemen—Advances to States (Defence) (Document A)

Division 865 — Department of Housing and Construction (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction.

11. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.57 p.m. until a date and hour to be fixed.

12. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Collard (Chairman), Senators Archer, McAuliffe, Primmer, Rocher and Walsh (6).

Senator Ryan also attended.

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

83

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 18

W EDNESDAY, 23 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.00 p.m.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of meetings held on 2 April 1980 (No. 16) and 17 April 1980 (No. 17) were confirmed.

3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered a draft of its Report to the Senate and resolved to adopt the Report, subject to certain minor amendments having been made to the draft.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.25 p.m. until a date and hour to be fixed.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:

Senator Collard (Chairman), Senators Archer, Primmer and Rocher (4).

S. J. COLLARD Chairman

84

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

Introduction On 1 April 1979 the Senate reported to the Committee the Additional Estimates for 1979-1980 relating to the following Departments:

Trade and Resources Foreign Affairs Defence Post and Telecommunications Administrative Services

The Committee considered the Additional Estimates of these Departments and received explanations from the Minister representing the Ministers for Trade and Resources, Foreign Affairs and Defence, Senator the Hon. J. L. Carrick; Senator the Hon. Douglas Scott representing the Minister for Administrative Services and

Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney representing the Minister for Post and Telecommuni­ cations and officers of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard Report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the Senate’s consideration of Appropriation Bill No. 3 1979-80 and Appropriation Bill No. 4

1979-80.

The Committee is awaiting written replies to questions and, on receipt, these will be distributed to members of the Committee and where appropriate to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. The replies will also be incorpor­ ated in the Committee Hansard.

Matters to which the Committee wishes to draw attention

General

Exchange Rate Fluctuations

The Committee notes that in the previous report of Estimates Committee F tabled in May 1979 the Committee stated that it was satisfied with the Postal and Telecommunications Department’s explanations on this matter insofar as they apply to Department of Finance directions. However the size of the amount sought by

the Department for the reasons given concerned the Committee in May 1979.

This Committee is also concerned at the large amounts of money involved in all Departmental additional estimates which are due to exchange rate fluctuations. It would appear that very rarely has Australia been able to benefit from favourable fluctuations. As indicated in its previous report the Committee accepts that appropri­

ations which involve expenditure overseas may need to vary to allow for currency fluctuations. However we reiterate our view expressed in May 1979 that wherever possible overseas financial dealings be undertaken in a currency which is less likely to be affected by adverse fluctuations.

The Committee also suggests that the Department of Finance take all reasonable steps to ensure that exchange fluctuations are minimised through appropriate hedging transactions where practicable.

87

Membership of International Organisations

The Committee has noted in the case of all the Departments examined that additional funds were requested, mainly in respect of the reasons outlined in the previous paragraphs, to pay for the cost of Australia’s membership of various inter­ national organisations. We accept the necessity for Australia to be involved in most international bodies but suggest that cost benefit studies should be carried out to determine the benefits to the Australian taxpayer of this country’s membership of international organisations. A list of those organisations to which a Minister considers Australia should maintain membership together with the annual costs of such member­ ship should be tabled in the Parliament. In addition, following cost benefit studies, Ministers should provide the Parliament with a list of those organisations, together with the savings in annual costs to Australia, in which it is considered that Australia need no longer be a member.

Framing o f Additional Estimates

The Committee noted during its examination of the Additional Estimates that in some cases additional expenditure requested was significantly in excess of the original estimates. The Committee also felt that in some cases much of the additional expend­ iture could have been anticipated. The Committee suggests that the Department of

Finance continue to liaise closely with all Departments with a view to ensuring that, where practicable, all appropriate expenditure is included in the Budget Estimates.

Department of Trade and Resources

Division 644—Export Development Grants Board

The Committee was concerned to note that the Export Development Grants Board was significantly in arrears in the processing of claims in spite of a recent increase in its staff ceilings and additional overtime. When examined on this point, the Chairman of the Export Development Grants Board informed the Committee that the Board estimated that a staff of about 100 would be required to clear the backlog of claims and leave a reasonable carry over to preserve continuity of operation.

The Committee was told that productivity increases were being achieved with existing resources but in the Board’s view it was not possible with current resources to determine 9000 to 10 000 claims next financial year without additional staff.

At the moment, the Board has a staff of eighty including the recent increase of thirty (six administrative and twenty-four investigative staff).

In order to make the Export Development Grants Board fully efficient and cost effective, we recommend that its staffing position be reviewed by the Public Service Board and its establishment adjusted to a level which ensures that the backlog of claims is reduced and a reasonable workload maintained without undue delays in the processing of claims.

Department of Defence Cost of Operation o f Boeing 707 VIP Aircraft

The Committee wishes to express concern at the confusion that arises from the spread of items relating to the operation of these aircraft throughout the Estimates and suggests that the Department of Defence liaise with the Department of Finance to facilitate a consolidation of this expenditure into one item.

88

Terminology

The Committee was also concerned to note that the wording of some of the explanations provided by the Department was a little loose or ambiguous in some respects and suggests that the Department ensure that this is rectified in future explana­ tions. For example the Committee draws attention to Division 233 Administrative

and Other Expenditure Subdivision 1, Item 09.

Division 240: Defence Co-operation

Southern Cross Exercise

The Committee was concerned to note that the Department was unable to inform the Committee of the nature of this exercise and the reasons for its cancellation.

Department of Postal and Telecommunications

Dissection o f Additional Appropriations

The Committee was concerned to note that despite the fact that the Department was able to provide it with further dissections of several items at the hearing, these were not included in the explanatory notes. The Committee is of the opinion that considerable time would be saved at Estimates Committee hearings if these dissec­

tions could be included in the explanatory notes in the first place. The Committee records its appreciation for the explanations provided by the Ministers and officers of the various Departments who assisted during the examination.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

89

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

■

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE F

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 14

W EDNESDAY, 2 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 10.00 a.m. in Senate Committee Room 4.

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals o f the Senate 1 April 1980 recording the change in membership of the Committee was reported.

Senators Collard, Gietzelt, McAuliffe, Watson and Withers had been discharged from further attendance on the Committee and Senators McIntosh, Messner, Neal, Kilgariff and Sibraa had been appointed.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary of the Committee then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Kilgariff was nominated by Senator Messner, seconded Senator Sibraa, and there being no further nominations—

Senator Kilgariff thereupon took the Chair

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate of 1 April 1980 referring to Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1979-80 for the following Departments

Trade and Resources Foreign Affairs Defence Postal and Telecommunications Administrative Services

5. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed that the Secretariat should proceed to researching the Estimates according to established practice and that Departments should be considered in the order in which they appeared in the Journals o f the Senate of 1 April 1980.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.25 a.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman) and Senators Neal, Messner and Sibraa. Apologies were received from Senators Ryan and McIntosh.

CONFIRMED:

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

93

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 15

FRIDAY, 18 APRIL 1980

ATTENDANCE: Senator B. F. Kilgariff (Chairman) Senator A. J. Messner Senator G. D. McIntosh Senator K. W. Sibraa

APOLOGIES: Senator S. M. Ryan Senator L. W. Neal

1. OPENING OF MEETING: The Committee met at 10.00 a.m. and the Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending 30 June 1980 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending 30 June 1980, and

stated that, pursuant to the resolution of the Senate of 1 April 1980, the Committee would consider the following departmental estimates:

Docu­ ment* Page Division No. Department Amount

A 56-57 640-646 Trade and Resources . . .

%

1 604 000

A 28-30 315-318 Foreign Affairs . . . . 24118 000

B 9 851-852 Foreign Affairs . . . . 97 000

A 19-22 230-242 Defence** . . . . . 154 097 000

A 42-43 480-486 Postal and Telecommunications . 4 173 000

B 12 909-911 Postal and Telecommunications . 470 000

A 8-12 130-160 Administrative Services . . 13 503 000

A 22 252 Acquisition of Sites and Buildings

(Defence)

5 002 000

B 4-5 817-819 Administrative Services . . 1 194 000

* D ocum ent A — ‘P articulars o f Proposed A dditional E xpenditure for the Service o f the year ending on 30 June 1980’. * D ocum ent B— ‘Particulars o f C ertain Proposed A dditional E xpenditure in respect o f the year ending on 30 Ju n e 1980’. ** Excluding Divisions 246, 248 and 252 under the control o f the D epartm ent o f H ousing an d C on­

struction and the D epartm ent o f A dm inistrative Services.

The Chairman informed the Committee that he had received notices of corrections to the Explanatory Notes of the Department of Defence and of the Postal and Tele­ communications Department. The letters were ordered to be incorporated in the

Hansard record.

94

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND RESOURCES:

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, representing the Minister for Trade and Resources, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Trade and Resources:

Mr R. Moore, Assistant Secretary, Management Branch Mr S. J. Ryan, Director, Financial Management and Services Mr R. A. Daly, Chairman, Export Development Grants Board Mr B. A. Brown, Overseas Branch Mr G. A. C. McHugh, Acting Assistant Secretary, Overseas Branch Mr P. J. Dixon, Principal Adviser, Uranium Division

Department o f Finance: Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 640-646—Department of Trade and Resources (Document A)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Trade and Resources, having questioned the Minister and obtained his agreement that further information be provided in relation to particular items.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Foreign Affairs:

Mr K. McDonald, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Foreign Service Division Mr F. R. Dalrymple, First Assistant Secretary, Economic Division Mr A. L. Vincent, Assistant Secretary, International Organisations Branch Mr D. C. Rutter, Assistant Secretary, Personnel Branch

Mr G. E. C. Gibson, Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr A. C. D. White, Assistant Secretary, OECD/European Communities/ Energy Branch Mr J. A. Benson, Assistant Secretary, Nuclear Policy and Disarmament

Branch Mr J. Powell, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch Mr J. Harbour, Assistant Secretary, Technical Services Branch Mr R. M. North, Acting Assistant Secretary, Economic Policy Branch

Mr R. E. Little, Acting Assistant Secretary, UN Economics Agencies Section, Economic Organisations Branch Mr E. G. Dobson, Director, A.D.P. Section, Planning and Review Branch Mr K. Brazel, Head, Plans and Policy Section, Defence Branch Mr P. A. J. Fitzgerald, Acting Director, Resources and Post Liaison Section,

Planning and Review Branch Mr B. L. Parkes, Director, Overseas and General Accounting Section, Adminis­ trative Services Branch

95

Mr J. Lovegrove, Director, Communications Section, Technical Services Branch Mr K. A. Oakinan, Acting Director, Property and Office Services Section, Administrative Services Branch Mr N. J. Kelly, Budget Officer, Finance Section, Administrative Services

Branch Mr H. S. North, Conference Officer, International Organisations Branch Mr B. J. Hickey, Executive Officer, Communications Section, Technical Services Branch

Mr W. Paterson, Nuclear Policy and Disarmament Branch

Australian Development Assistance Bureau:

Mr R. G. Spratt, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Bilateral Programs Division Mr J. R. M. Wolfe, Assistant Secretary, Program Planning and Review Branch Mr B. Bray, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Branch Mr N. Hope, Acting Assistant Secretary, Policy Development and

Co-ordination Branch Mr N. Hunt, Head, Finance Section Mr K. Detto, Head, Financial Institutions Section Mr F. S. Wojtaszak, Finance Officer, Finance Section

Department of Finance:

Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 315-318 — Department of Foreign Affairs (Document A) Divisions 851-852 — Department of Foreign Affairs (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs, having questioned the Minister and obtained his agreement that further information be provided in relation to particular items.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE:

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, representing the Minister for Defence, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Defence:

Mr K. B. Breynard, Assistant General Manager, Defence Communications Systems (Planning and Programming) Air Commodore R. Candy, Director-General, Supply, Air Force Air Vice-Marshal E. M. Carroll, Chief of Supply Brigadier H. J. Coates, Director-General Operations, Army Brigadier G. F. Cohen, Director-General, Training and Education Policy Mr P. G. Collins, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial

Mr Μ. T. Dalton, Acting Director-General, Supply, Navy Mr R. H. Englund, Assistant Secretary, Civil Personnel Group Captain I. B. Oration, Director of Operations, Air Force Colonel R. E. Hagerty, Director, Equipment, Materiel, Programming

Standardisation, Army

96

Mr G. J. Hansen, Chief Executive Officer, Budgets and Estimates Co-ordination and Review Mr T. K. Hickman, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements Lieutenant-Colonel A. G. Hutchison, Staff Officer, Material Programming—

Army Brigadier B. H. Hockney, Acting Chief of Materiel, Army Air Vice-Marshal H. A. Hughes, Chief of Air Force Materiel Mr L. V. Hume, Secretary, Australian Defence Force Academy Development

Council and Executive Committee Mr A. F. Kent, Assistant Secretary, Project Planning and Evaluation (Defence Industry and Materiel Policy) Mr Η. P. Jones, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology Administration Mr K. T. Lyon, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Program and Budgets Air Commodore J. R. Macneil, Director-General, Service Conditions

Mr D. M. McAlister, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning, Air Force Mr L. A. McGee, Assistant Secretary, Quality Assurance and Engineering Resources Brigadier N. J. McGuire, Director-General, Movements and Transport Mr P. F. McNamara, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning, Navy Mr M. L. Murdoch, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Programming and

Resource Analysis Mr G. E. Nicholls, Assistant Secretary, Naval Technical Services Mr J. S. O’Neill, Assistant Secretary, Budgets and Estimates General and Co-ordination Air Commodore T. C. Owen, Director-General, Recruiting

Brigadier F. N. Paramor, Director-General, Joint Plans and Operations Mr T. J. Parker, Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Group-Captain J. A. Paule, Director of Joint Operations, Plans Mr F. B. Power, Assistant Secretary, Education Projects Mr I. M. Reid, Assistant Secretary, Defence Facilities Programs Management Colonel P. G. Richards, Acting Director-General of Supply, Army Mr A. Sharpe, Acting Chief Defence Scientist Mr J. L. Simmonds, Acting Assistant Director, Natural Disaster Organisation

(Policy and Support) Mr T. E. Sullivan, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning, Army Mr G. M. Taylor, Assistant Secretary, Industry Development Branch Captain M. J. Taylor, Director, Naval Operations Dr A. Taloni, Assistant Secretary, Project Co-ordination (Computing Services)

Major-General W. J. Watson, Chairman, Services Health Policy Committee Commodore B. L. West, Deputy Chief of Naval Materiel Mr D. A. Whitty, Assistant Secretary, International Policy (Papua New Guinea and Defence Co-operation Programs)

Department of Finance:

Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 230-242 — Department of Defence (Document A) (Excluding Divisions 246, 248 and 255 under the control of the Department of Housing and Con­ struction and the Department of Administrative Services)

97

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Defence, having questioned the Minister and obtained his agreement that further information be provided in relation to particular items.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.01 p.m.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

98

THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE F

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 16

M ONDAY, 21 APRIL 1980

ATTENDANCE: Senator B. F. Kilgariff (Chairman) Senator A. J. Messner Senator G. D. McIntosh Senator K. W. Sibraa

Senator S. M. Ryan Senator L. W. Neal

Senator P. A. Walsh also took part in the Committee’s proceedings.

1. OPENING OF MEETING: The Committee met at 4.19 p.m. and the Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES:

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Douglas Scott, Minister for Special Trade Represen­ tations, representing the Minister for Administrative Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Administrative Services:

Mr A. R. Palmer, Deputy Secretary Mr E. Wigley, First Assistant Secretary, Bicentennial and Special Events Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division

Mr S. Wenger, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division Mr P. D. Priestly, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division

Mr D. M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr Μ. P. Lance, Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial Services Branch, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr A. P. Butler, Acting Assistant Secretary, Grants and Authorities Branch,

Secretariat and Policy Division Mr V. K. Peak, Principal Executive Officer, Transitory Accommodation Section, Policy and Executive Projects Branch Mr Η. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Honours Secretariat Mr W. D. Kennedy, Surveyor-General, Property and Survey Division

Mr L. Nielsen, Assistant Secretary, Property Branch, Property and Survey Division Mr A. A. Hillier, Assistant Secretary, Overseas Operations Branch, Property and Survey Division Mr A. A. Shakespeare, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage

Division

99

Mr J. J. Mason, Acting Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch, Transport and Storage Division Mr P. Westaway, Assistant Secretary, Australian Government Publishing Service, Information Services Division Mr R. A. Young, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operations Management Branch,

Purchasing Division Mr P. G. Woodham, Principal Executive Officer, Operations Management Branch, Purchasing Division Mr T. H. Mooney, Assistant Secretary, Policy and Planning Branch, Protective

Services Co-ordination Centre Mr W. J McCann, Principal Executive Officer, Public Order and Police Affairs Division Mr D. P. Reynolds, Director, Management Services, Australian Electoral

Office Mr B. L. Traynor, Director, Enrolment Systems Section, Australian Electoral Office Mr W. L. Antill, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Management Services,

Australian Federal Police Mr W. J. Ireland, Acting Executive Officer, Australian Federal Police Mr J. G. Wickens, General Manager, Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services Ltd

Department o f Finance Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 130-160 — Department of Administrative Services (Document A) Division 252 — Acquisition of Sites and Buildings (Defence) (Document A) Divisions 817-819 — Administrative Services (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Administrative Services, having questioned the Minister and obtained his agreement that further information be provided in relation to particular items.

3. SUSPENSION OF PROCEEDINGS: The Committee suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 8.01 p.m.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1979-80— POSTAL AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT:

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, representing the Minister for Post and Telecommunications, accompanied by the following officers:

Postal and Telecommunications Department: Mr E. E. Payne, Deputy Secretary Mr J. P. Coleman, Assistant Secretary, Policy Division Mr A. F. Guster, First Assistant Secretary, Satellite Project Office

Mr R. Ramsay, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Radio Frequency Manage­ ment Division Mr P. Westerway, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr B. Foster, Senior Finance Officer, Management Services Branch

100

Mr G. King, Acting Controller, Finance and Supply, Management Services Branch Mr F. Waldron, Engineer Class 5, Broadcast Engineering Division Mr D. Large, Chief Executive Officer, Policy Division

Australian Telecommunications Commission:

Mr L. Sebire, Superintending Engineer, Broadcasting

Australian Postal Commission; Mr J. L. Brady, Secretary

Overseas Telecommunications Commission:

Mr D. K. Cocks, Deputy Director, Marketing

Australian Broadcasting Commission:

Mr K. MacKriell, Assistant General Manager (Radio) Mr G. White, Assistant General Manager (Television) Mr K. Jennings, Assistant General Manager (Management Services) Mr K. Bourke, Controller of Engineering

Mr W. Funnell, Controller of Finance Mr A. Coulter, Acting Federal Budget Officer

Committee of Inquiry into the ABC:

Mr C. Conybere, Secretary

Australian Broadcasting Tribunal:

Mr B. J. Connolly, Secretary Mr G. P. Dwyer, Director of Public Inquiry Branch Mr C. J. Answerth, Senior Executive Officer, Management Services Branch Mr M. J. Payton, Finance Director

Special Broadcasting Service:

Mr R. E. Fowell, Executive Director Mr W. R. Watson, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. W. Stokes, Acting Director, Administration Mr M. R. Britton, Finance Officer Mr E. Lembryk, Authorising Officer

IMBC—Implementation Task Force:

Mr K. R. Sievers, Policy Co-ordinator

Department o f Finance: Mr T. J. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 48CM86 — Postal and Telecommunications Department (Document A) Divisions 909-911 — Postal and Telecommunications Department (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Postal and Telecommunications Department having questioned the Minister and obtained his agreement that further information be provided in relation to particular items.

101

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.00 p.m.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

102

TH E SENATE

ESTIM ATES COM MITTEE F

M IN U TES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 17

TUESDAY, 22 APRIL 1980

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6,00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 2 April, 18 April and 21 April 1980 were read and confirmed,

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate.

Resolved: That the Report be adopted with minor amendments to be incorporated by the Secretary.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.13 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman) and Senators Sibraa and Messner.

Apologies were received from Senators Ryan, McIntosh and Neal.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

103

• '