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The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E AND F

Report to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for Year 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance 1986-87

November 1987

Presented and ordered to be printed 5 November 1987

Parliamentary Paper No. 216/1987

Parliamentary Paper No. 216/1987

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A,B,C,D,E AND F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1987-88 and Expenditure under the

Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87

November 1987

The Commonwealth Government Printer Canberra 1987

© Commonwealth of Australia 1987 ISBN 0 644 072725

Printed by Authority by the Commonwealth Government Printer

1. Resolution of the Senate (v)

2. Estimates Committee Groups (v)

3. Membership of Committees (vi)

4. Estimates Committee A. Report 1

Minutes of Proceedings 1987 17

6 October 1987 (2 meetings) 19

19 October 1987 27

4 November 1987 33

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public Hearings 35

5. Estimates Committee B Report 53

Minutes of Proceedings 1987 59

6 October 1987 61

19 October 1987 68

2 November 1987 73

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public Hearings 75

6. Estimates Committee C Report 87

Minutes of Proceedings 1987 95

6 October 1987 (2 meetings) 97

20 October 1987 105

4 November 1987 111

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public 113

Hearings

7. Estimates Committee D Report 123

Minutes of Proceedings 127

8 October 1987 129

22 October 1987 134

29 October 1987 138

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public Hearings 141

8. Estimates Committee E Report 167

Minutes of Proceedings 183

7 October 1987 185

8 October 1987 187

22 October 1987 191

28 October 1987 195

4 November 1987 197

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public Hearings 199

CONTENTS Page

(iii)

9. Estimates Committee F Report 221

Reservation 232

Documents tabled during Public Hearings or provided with additional information 235

Minutes of Proceedings 237

8 October 1987 (2 meetings) 239

22 October 1987 244

3 November 1987 248

Hansard - Index to Issues raised in Public Hearings 249

RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED ON 22 SEPTEMBER 1987.

1. ESTIMATES COMMITTEES - PROPOSED REFERENCES: The Minister for Home Affairs (Senator Ray), pursuant to notice and at the request of the Manager of Government Business (Senator Evans), moved-

(1) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1988 in relation to the Parliamentary Departments, the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1988 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June

1988 be referred forthwith to Estimates Committees for examination and report. (2) That expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1987 be referred to

Estimates Committees for examination and report prior to its consideration in Committee of the Whole. (3) That the Committees consider Proposed Expenditure and departmental expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance in the Estimates Committee groupings agreed to by resulution of the Senate on 22 September 1987. (4) The the Committees report to the Senate on or before

Thursday, 5 November 1987. Question put and passed.

2. ESTIMATES COMMITTEE GROUPS

Estimates Committee A Parliament Industry, Technology and Commerce Prime Minister and Cabinet

Industrial Relations

Estimates Committee B Transport and Communications Foreign Affairs and Trade

Estimates Committee C Finance Treasury Primary Industries and

Energy

Estimates Committee D Employment, Education and Training Community Services and Health

Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs Veterans' Affairs

Estimates Committee E Attorney-General Aboriginal Affairs Defence Administrative Services

Estimates Committee F Social Security The Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and

Territories

(v)

3. MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES

Estimates Committee A

Senator Childs (Chairman) Senator Alston Senator Bishop Senator Burns Senator Chapman Senator Cook

Estimates Committee B

Senator Gietzelt (Chairman) Senator Brownhill Senator Devereux Senator MacGibbon Senator Maguire Senator Panizza Senator Schacht

Estimates Committee C

Senator Crowley (Chairman) Senator Archer Senator Collins Senator Devlin Senator McGauran Senator Parer

Estimates Committee D

Senator Colston (Chairman) Senator Peter Baume Senator Giles Senator Sheil Senator Walters Senator Zakharov

Estimates Committee E

Senator Aulich (Chairman) Senator Beahan Senator Bolkus Senator Foreman Senator Newman Senator Short Senator Tambling

Estimates Committee F

Senator Black (Chairman) Senator Coates Senator Cooney Senator Puplick Senator Reid Senator Vanstone

1. Discharged on 7 October 1987 2. Appointed on 7 October 1987 3. Discharged on 28 October 1987 4. Appointed on 28 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

November 1987

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.

1. On 22 September 1987 the Senate referred to the

Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1986-87,

and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for 1985-86,

relating to the Parliament, the Department of Industry,

Technology and Commerce, the Department of the Prime Minister and

Cabinet, and the Department of Industrial Relations.

2. The Committee has considered the estimates of the

departments, together with the departmental explanatory notes,

and has received evidence in relation to them from the President

of the Senate (Senator the Honourable Kerry W. Sibraa), the

Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce (Senator the

Honourable John Button), the Special Minister of State (Senator

the Honourable Susan Ryan), and officials of the departments

concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard

records of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the

information of the Senate in connection with the Appropriation

(Parliamentary Departments) Bill 1987-88, the Appropriation Bill

3.

(No.l) 1987-88 and the Appropriation Bill (No.2) 1987-88.

Written answers provided after the Committee's hearings will be

tabled in the Senate and circulated to all honourable Senators.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters arising from its consideration of the

estimates.

Parliament's appropriations and the double dissolution

4. In its previous reports of October 1985, May 1986 and

October 1986, the Committee has laid particular emphasis on the

Parliament's independence from the Executive in the determination

of its estimates. In this regard the Committee has been adhering

to the Senate's Resolution of 2 December 1985, made on the

Committee's recommendation and moved by the then-Chairman,

Senator Richardson, affirming the role of the Appropriations and

Staffing Committee in determining the estimates for the

Department of the Senate. The text of the Resolution reads as

follows:-

(a) the provisions of the Resolution of the Senate dated 25

March 1982, relating to the responsibilities of the

Standing Committee on Appropriations and Staffing with

respect to the Estimates for the Senate, are

re-affirmed;

4.

(b) the estimates of expenditure for the Senate to be

included in the Appropriation (Parliamentary

Departments) Bill shall continue to be those determined by the Standing Committee on Appropriations and

Staffing;

(c) if before the introduction of the Bill the Minister for Finance should, for any reason, wish to vary the

details of the estimates determined by the Committee he

should consult with the President of the Senate with a

view to obtaining the agreement of the Committee to any

variation;

(d) in the event of agreement not being reached between the President and the Minister, then the Leader of the

Government in the Senate, as a member of the Appropriations and Staffing Committee, be consulted;

(e) the Senate acknowledges that in considering any request from the Minister for Finance the Committee and the

Senate would take into consideration the relevant expenditure and staffing policies of the Government of

the day; and

(f) in turn the Senate expects the Government of the day to take into consideration the role and responsibilities

of the Senate which are not of the Executive Government

and which may at times involve conflict with the

Executive Government.

Journals of the Senate

2 December 1985, p. 676

5. The Committee welcomes the correspondence between the

President of the Senate and the Minister for Finance, tabled by

the President during the Committee hearings on 6 October 1987.

5.

The correspondence indicates that the forward estimates for

1987-88, as proposed by the Appropriations and Staffing Committee

and advised to the Minister for Finance on 11 May 1987, had been

varied considerably in accordance with the government's

comprehensive expenditure cuts, consistent with paragraph (e) of

the Resolution of the Senate quoted above. The Committee accepts

that in this instance negotiation of this process was made on the

Senate's behalf by the President alone, without the usual benefit

of consultation with the Appropriations and Staffing Committee.

The effect of the double dissolution, and the delayed opening of

Parliament, effectively eliminated opportunities for the Senate

and the Appropriations and Staffing Committee to be involved in

further consideration of the 1987-88 estimates.

6. The Committee recognises the difficult position in

which the President was placed in this situation and welcomes his

stated intention of convening a meeting of the Appropriations and

Staffing Committee as soon as possible. The Committee also notes

that in his letter to the President of 28 August 1987, the

Minister for Finance, in rejecting the forward estimates as

originally determined by the Appropriations and Staffing

Committee, foreshadowed that further reductions "should be

possible following the streamlining of the parliamentary

departments" (Hansard, Estimates Committee A, 6 October 1987,

p.A3). The Committee is reassured by the President's statement

that any additional plans for further parliamentary

reorganization will be presented to the Appropriations and

Staffing Committee, and that eventually "they will lead to a

debate on the floor of the chamber as to what will happen in the

6.

administration" (ibid., p.A8). The Committee records the

President's assurance that reports currently being prepared for

the Presiding Officers on the proposed re-organisation of the

functions of the Parliamentary departments will be fully

considered by the Senate itself, consistent with paragraph (f) of

the Resolution of the Senate quoted above.

The precincts of Parliament

7. The Committee notes from evidence given that the

Presiding Officers are currently discussing with the Government

the delineation of the precincts of the New Parliament House.

The Committee's primary concern is simply the security of the

building. It notes that extensive consultation has taken place

between the Parliamentary departments and the A.C.T.

Administration on means of dealing with graffiti vandalism to the

New Parliament House, but notes also that the responsibility for

the prosecution of offenders is to an extent unclear, pending a

definition of the precincts of the New Parliament House. The

Committee draws attention to supplementary information provided

by the Department of the Senate, which is here quoted.

Persons who commit offences in or near Parliament House may

be prosecuted for such offences. Section 15 of the Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987, for the avoidance of any

doubt, declares that a law in force in the Australian Capital Territory applies according to its tenor in and in

7.

relation to Parliament House. Usually prosecutions are

initiated by the police at the request of the Presiding

Officers, but for most offences there would be nothing to prevent the Presiding Officers or persons acting on their

behalf from commencing prosecutions.

In its report presented to the Parliament on 28 November 1985 the Joint Committee on the new Parliament House

recommended that legislation be passed delineating the precincts of the new building, declaring that the Presiding

Officers have the management and control of the precincts,

and, amongst other things, making provision to facilitate

prosecutions for offences committed in the precincts. Mr

President McClelland had a bill drafted to reflect the recommendations of the Committee, and on 19 March 1986

forwarded the bill to the Prime Minister for the Government's consideration. The bill is still under

consideration by the Government, and the Presiding Officers have asked that that consideration be concluded as a matter

of urgency so that the legislation may be passed before the

new building is occupied.

8. The Committee supports the endeavour of the Presiding

Officers to maintain proper and adequate control over the

precincts of Parliament.

Educational Activities

9. The Committee notes the reduction in the estimates by

the Department of the Senate for the schools information kit. As

the President stated: "the majority of the work has been done

(Hansard, p .A9). The Committee now looks forward to final

8.

production and release of the much-needed schools kit on

Parliament, which was earlier described by the Committee as "one

of the most exciting and ambitious projects undertaken by the

Parliament" (Report of October 1986, p .7). It also draws

encouragement from the Clerk of the Senate's advice that

parliamentary education is part of "a continuing role", in which

the Parliament will further develop its program of educational

activities for schools, other groups and interested individuals.

Senate information systems

10. The Committee notes with relief and satisfaction that

the long saga of irregularities associated with the choice of an

information system of suitable compatibility has almost

concluded. Satisfactory progress will continue with the

maintenance of due consultation between the Department of the

Senate and the Department of Administrative Services.

11. Since its report of October 1985 the Committee has

exercised particular interest in the planning and associated

expenditure on the microcomputer information system program which

began in 1984. A summary of the Committee's scrutiny may be

found in its Report to the Senate in May 1987. It details a

sequence of mismanagement and highly questionable decisions made

in relation to equipment purchases by the government. The

Committee was highly critical of procedures of the then

Department of the Special Minister of State (SMOS), in ensuring

9.

that an Australian-made system could be found which would ensure

efficient networking and compatability between equipment in

electorate offices and the New Parliament House. Of the failure

of SMOS to achieve the goals they had been set, the Committee had

this to say in its Report of May 1987:

A situation has now developed which should never

have arisen - two systems, with two training and support

systems, two word processing software options, two different keyboards, duplication and waste in staffing, and so on.

The Committee notes that Estimates Committee F has expressed

similar concerns to those of this Committee.

The Committee can only trust that the ability of

Senators and Members to access databases to be available in the new building is not jeopardised by decisions made and

being made by SMOS in its implementation.

The obvious conclusion to be drawn from the foregoing is that the Committee's advice has been ignored,

with the consequences that it almost exactly predicted two years ago, and which it has drawn to the attention of the

Senate in every Report since. The Committee is of the

opinion that the processes of decision making by the

Minister and the Department of the Special Minister of State are inexplicable given the Senate's clear advice, through

the President, concerning avoidance of the obvious pitfalls

of incompatibility in computer systems. Had SMOS accepted the plea of President McClelland to discuss the implications in full prior to decisions being made, the Committee is

satisfied that an Australian company would have been able to provide a system meeting the most important requirements of

Senators and Members while being fully compatible with the system in use in Parliament House. .

10.

12. Following the tabling in May 1987 of the Reports in the

Senate of Estimates Committee A and Estimates Committee F (which

was responsible for examining the estimates of the Department of

the Special Minister of State), the unsatisfactory performance of

equipment supplied by the initial contractor was raised in debate

in the Senate (Senate Hansard 29 May 1987, pp.3212-3217). The

Committee notes the assurances given by officers of the

Department of the Senate that compatibility of equipment is

dependent only on some modest expenditure by the Department of

Administrative Services to link electorate offices with the New

Parliament House network. The Committee will continue to

maintain its watching-brief on the final implementation of the

program.

Explanatory Notes for program budgeting

13. The Committee notes that all executive departments have

now moved to program budgeting and that, for the most part, the

Explanatory Notes are themselves sufficient to allow a proper

examination of details contained in the appropriations bills.

The Committee records the submission of some corrigenda but is

generally well satisfied with the presentation of the details of

expenditure, especially given the extraordinary circumstances of

major changes since the 1987-88 estimates had been prepared. The

Committee notes, however, that in some areas a considerable

amount of essential information on some items of expenditure was

not readily identifable or explained in the tables. Examples of

11.

this were estimates of expenditure on official entertainment by

the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, details of its

expenditure on visits by foreign dignitories and the costs of

maintaining official establishments. It notes also what it

understands to be once-only transfers of funds from one program

to another -- particularly allocations to each program area of

administrative costs previously met centrally. For example,

administrative staff in the Department of Prime Minister and

Cabinet who once were counted in the central administrative

division are now counted as part of the staff costs for the

program for which they are working, so that increases in some

programs are balanced by offsetting decreases in others. The

Committee understands this to be an inevitable if annoying part

of the process of implementing program budgeting.

Changes to administrative arrangements

14. Difficulties faced by the Departments in revising their

estimates to take account of changes to administrative

arrangements have already been mentioned. The Committee was

interested to learn details of the costs associated with the

transfer of functions following the establishment of the new

Public Service Commission. While the Committee accepts the need

for continuation of some kind of central personnel agency it

notes certain anomolies which might warrant close scrutiny. For

example the Committee heard evidence from the Office of the

Status of Women, the Office of Multicultural Affairs, and the

12.

Affirmative Action Agency concerning the promotion of equal

employment opportunity policies and practices in the private as

well as the public sector. However the Committee notes that in

regard to employment in the public service the new Public Service

Commision is, or appears to be, devolving responsibility for this

aspect of personnel practice to individual departments or to

agencies with other important responsibilities. The Committee

trusts that public employees will be afforded no fewer

protections in the area of basic opportunities than those in the

private sector and that the redeployment of Public Service

Commission staff does not weaken the effectiveness of personnel

practices generally in the public service.

15. The Committee notes also that Defence Force conditions

of service were listed in the Explanatory Notes of the Department

of Industrial Relations as not being available because relevant

statistics were still in the keeping of the Remuneration Tribunal

and the Department of Defence. The 1 raw information1 kept by the

Department of Defence was not readily translatable into a program

budgeting format of the kind used by the Department of Industrial

Relations. The Committee has been lead to believe that

complications within the Department of Defence involving special

arrangements for uniform personnel salaries may preclude the

transfer of records which will have to be duplicated or created

in the Department of Industrial Relations.

13.

Improvements in efficiency

16. The Committee is pleased to note the increasingly

efficient monitoring of community and special interest projects

under the various programs administrated by the Department of the

Prime Minister and Cabinet. In its previous reports the

Committee has been critical of the inability of officers from

some areas of the Department to explain fully proposed

expenditure. The Committee is appreciative of the detailed

information it received during these hearings from officers of

the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the

efficient manner in which answers to detailed anticipated

questions were supplied, particularly in the case of the Office

of the Status of Women. The Committee also commends the

Australian Institute of Marine Science for the way in which it

was prepared to take the time immediately to prepare and provide

answers to complex questions on notice.

Annual Reports

17. In its Report to the Senate in May 1987 the Committee

drew attention to the value to Estimates Committees of annual

reports. It particularly commended the Department of Industry,

Technology and Commerce whose report for 1985-86 had been drawn

up so as to provide a framework against which departmental

14.

activities might be assessed. The Committee looked forward to

annual reports becoming major instruments in improving the

accountability of departments and agencies to the Parliament.

These welcome developments are, however, dependent upon annual

reports being tabled in time for the Committee to examine them.

For the 1987-88 estimates the Committee acknowledges

receipt of the draft reports of the Office to the Official

Secretary to the Governor-General, the Departments of Industry,

Technology and Commerce, the Australian Institute of Marine

Science and the Australian Customs Service. The Committee is not

for its purposes interested in expensive or glossy annual

reports. All it wants is early access to the text of reports —

basic content as distinct from form. To quote the warning

delivered by the President of the Senate, Senator the Hon. Kerry

W. Sibraa: "It might be that the search for style is delaying

the delivery of substance... Form should not obstruct, delay or

hide substance, which can be prepared economically and must be

presented in a timely way" ("Annual Reports Awards", Canberra

Bulletin of Public Administration, May 1987 p.94). While it is

quite probable that changes to the administrative structure of

some departments may have been responsible for a delay in the

production of some reports, this factor would have applied to

some agencies which come before the Committee for scrutiny and

did provide annual reports. Once again the Committee draws

attention to the importance of the early availability of annual

reports and urges departments and their portfolio bodies to

provide the Committee with draft reports, whenever possible,

should the final documents not yet be tabled.

15.

General

18. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the

assistance given by the President, the Minister for Industry,

Technology and Commerce, the Special Minister of State and the

officials of the various departments and authorities who appeared

before the Committee.

Bruce Childs

Chairman

16.

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

17.

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AUSTRALIAN SENATE CANBERRA, A C T.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

NO. 1

TUESDAY, 6 OCTOBER 1987

1. MEETING

The Committee met in private session at 4.05 pm.

2. RESOLUTION

Resolution of the appointment of the Committee on 22 September 1987, and of the appointment of Members to the Committee on 24 September 1987 were reported.

3. ELECTION OF A CHAIRMAN

Senator Childs was nominated for the position of Chairman of the Committee by Senator Burns and was elected unopposed.

4. CONSIDERATION OF EXPENDITURE

The Committee agreed to examine departmental estimates referred to it in the following order:

Parliamentary Departments (a) Department of the Senate (b) Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff (c) Department of the Parliamentary Library (d) Joint House Department Office of the Governor-General Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Department of Industrial Relations

5. RELEASE OF INFORMATION

The Committee agreed to table guidelines to questions received since its last meeting and the include them for printing with additional information received in the course of its forthcoming hearings.

19.

6. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 4.11 pm.

7· a t t e n d a n c e

Senators Childs (Chairman), Alston, Bishop, Burns Chapman. Apologies were received from Senator Cook.

CONFIRMED:

(Bruce Childs) Chairman

and

20.

AUSTRALIAN SENATE k:V·.. - v. T

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

NO. 2

TUESDAY, 6 OCTOBER 1987

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 4.16 pm. The Chairman (Senator Childs) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN

The Chairman advised that the Committee had been charged by resolution of the Senate with consideration of particulars of proposed expenditure for 1987-88 and departmental expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance

1986-87 for the Parliamentary Departments, the Department of Industry Technology and Commerce, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Department of Industrial Relations.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE - PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Kerry Sibraa, President of the Senate, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Senate

Mr A .R . Gumming Thom, Clerk of the Senate Mr H. Evans, Deputy Clerk of the Senate Mr T. Wharton, Clerk-Assistant (Management) Mr J. Vander Wyk, Clerk-Assistant (Procedure) Miss A. Lynch, Clerk-Assistant (Table) Mr R . Diamond, Acting Clerk-Assistant (Committees) Mr C. Elliott, Acting Usher of the Black Rod

Mr G. Nankervis, Principal Parliamentary Office (Management)

Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff

Mr J.M. Campbell, Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr B.A. Harris, Assistant Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr M.J. Farrelley, Administrative Officer

21.

Dr P.B. Thistlewaite, Principal Parliamentary Officer (Database Specialist)

Department of the Parliamentary Library

Mr H. MacLean, Parliamentary Librarian Mr A. Wilson, Acting Deputy Parliamentary Librarian Mrs D. Bennett, Head, Legislative Research Service Mr E. Dobson, Director, Systems Group Mr M. Watson, Assistant Director (Finance) Management

Services Branch Mr J. Domitrak, Acting Assistant Director (Personnel) Management Services Branch Ms J. McDonald, New Parliament House Project Officer Mr R. Kemp, Acting Finance Officer

Joint House Department

Mr M. Bolton, Secretary Mr F. Bradley, Assistant Secretary (Operations) Mr D. Hood, Assistant Secretary (Planning)

Department of Finance

Mr R. Henderson, Chief Finance Officer, Grade 2, Industry Division.

The Chairman called on the following divisions for examination:

Division 101 - Senate Division 102 - Advance to the President of the Senate Division 105 - Parliamentary Reporting Staff Division 106 - Parliamentary Library Division 107 - Joint House Department

The following documents were provided by the President for incorporation in Hansard: correspondance between the Presiding Officers and the Minister for Finance in relation to estimated expenditure of the five parliamentary departments.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Parliamentary Departments subject to an undertaking by the President and his officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE - OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR-GENERAT "

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:

22.

Office of the Governor-General

Mr D. Smith, Official Secretary Mrs L. Lawless, Deputy Official Secretary Lieutenant-Colonel G. Warner, Comptroller to the Governor-General

Mr C. Bell, Senior Executive Officer Ms L. Huey, Administrative & Finance Officer

Department of Finance

Mr R. Henderson, Chief Finance Officer, Grade 2, Industry Division.

The Chairman called on the following division for

examination:

Division 516 - Governor-General's Office and Establishment.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Office of the Governor-General.

5. PARTICULARS FO PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Special Minister of State and Senator the Hon. John Button, Minister for Industry, Technology and Commerce accompanied by the

following officers:

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

Light and Service Industries

Dr J. Hagan, Assistant Secretary

Bureau of Industry Economics

Mr J. Stanford, Deputy Director

Heavy Industry Sectors

Ms Jt Uhr, General Manager, National Industry Extension Service

Mr B. Meredith, Assistant Secretary, Engineering Branch

Mr G. White, Executive Director, Heavy Engineering Board

Technology and Investment

Mr N. Hurst, Acting First Assistant Secretary

23.

Mr R. Gould, Acting Deputy Division Head

Ms V. Stretton, Executive Director IR & D Branch

Policy and Corporate Services

Mr G. Hallinan, Senior Assistant Secretary

Automotive Industry Authority

Mr P. Woodham, Executive Officer

Mr W. Scales, Chief Executive

Patents

Dr I. McCay, Senior Assistant Commissioner Policy, Planning and Co-ordination

Mr K. Stokes, Director Resource Management

National Standards Commission

Mr J. Birch, Executive Director

Commission for the Future

Ms R. Galbally, Director

Australian Institute of Marine Science

Dr J. Baker, Director

Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation

Mr D. Price, General Manager

Building and Service Industries

Dr R. Hawkins, First Assistant Secretary

Mr K. Croker, Industrial Investment and Collaboration Branch

Australian Customs Service

Mr F. Kelly, Deputy Comptroller-General Mr J. Steele, Industry Assistance Mr H . Bates, Import/Export Control Mr B. Cody, Inland Revenue

Mr J. Drury, Barrier Control Mr P. Sargeant, Passenger Processing Mr K. Stilling, Investigation .

Mr D. O'Connor, Inspectorate Mr A. Luckman, Co-ordination and Services Ms N . Fredrickson, Systems

Mr M. Migus, SAS Resource Management Mr J. Bridge, Director, Finance

24.

Austrade

Mr M. Keogh, Manager, Resource Services

Mr P. Collas, Manager, Financial Management

Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation

Dr. D Walker, Executive Director

Mr W. Ratcliff, Secretary/Manager Administration

CSIRO

Dr N. Boardman, Chief Executive Officer

Mr H . Crozier, General Manager, Finance and Administration

Mr R . Riches, Senior Finance Officer

Ms J. Colefax, Finance Officer

Mr I. Farrar, Manager, Finance and Properties

Mr J. Payne, Chief Budget Officer

Dr N.J. Sullivan, Co-operate Secretary

Department of Finance

Mr R. Henderson, Chief Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport and Industry Division

Mr B . Green, Chief Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport and Industry Division.

Ms M. Conrade, Acting Senior Finance Officer Grade 2, Transport and Industry Division

The Chairman called on for consideration the following programs for consideration:

Program 1 Program 2 Program 3 Program 4

Program 5 Program 7

Industry Policy and Development Science Building Industry Australia Customs Service Australian Trade Commission Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial

Research Organisation

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and his Department to provide

additional information to the Committee.

25.

6 ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 10.11 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE

All members of the Committee were in attendance. Senators Michael Baume, Lewis and Walters were also in attendance.

CONFIRMED:

(Bruce Childs) Chairman

26.

AUSTRALIAN SENATE LANBE RRA. A.C T.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

NO. 3

MONDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1987

MEETING

The Committee met at 10.00 am. The Chairman (Senator Childs) took the Chair.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

In attendance: Senator the Hon Susan Ryan, Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers.

Department of Industry, Technology and Commerce

Mr G. Hallinan, Senior Assistant Secretary, Policy and Corporate Services

Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation

Dr D. Walker, Executive Director

Mr W. Ratcliff, Secretary/Manager Administration

Australian Institute of Marine Science

Dr J. Baker, Director

Commission for the Future

Ms R. Galbally, Director

Textiles, Clothing and Footwear Development Authority

Mr K. Fielder, Special Adviser, TCFDA

Mr J. Martin, Director, TCFDA Secretariat

Department of Finance

Ms M. Conrade, Senior Finance Officer, Industries Branch

The Chairman called in the following programs for consideration:

Program 1 : Industry Policy and Development Commission for the Future Australian Institute of Marine Science Program 6 : Australian Nuclear Science and Technology

Organisation

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers of the Department to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE AND EXPENDITURE UNDER TI-IE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE - DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET.

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

Mr S. A. Hamilton, Deputy Secretary

Ms S. Brooks, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Status of Women

Mr W. J. Blick, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Government Division

Mr R. Mills, First Assistant Secretary, Bicentenary and Community Relations Division

Dr P. Shergold, first Assistant Secretary, Office of Multicultural Affairs

Mr N. Edwards, Assistant Secretary, Resources Management Branch

Australian Science and Technology Council

Mr I. R. Shortt, Assistant Secretary

Office of National Assessments

Dr D . Robertson, Deputy Director-General

Mr N. D. Denning, Chief Executive Officer, Management Services

28.

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Mr D. Triffett, Senior Executive Officer

Economic Planning and Advisory Council

Mr F. Argy, Director

Ms L. Lesueur, Executive Secretary

Mr E . Zinchenko, Acting Administrative Officer

Public Service Commission

Mr J. C. Russell, Assistant Commissioner, Senior Executive Selection and Placement Branch

Mr R. Hoy, Assistant Commissioner, Senior Executive Selection and Placement Branch

Mr P . Gourley, Assistant Commissioner, Recruitment, Staff Development and EEO Branch

Mr B. Minns, Assistant Commissioner, Staffing Branch

Ms P . Faget, Director, Executive Support Group

Dr J. Baker, First Assistant Commissioner, Personnel Management Division

Mr D. Calaby, Finance Officer

Ms G. Radford, Former Director, EEO Bureau

Mr A. Sirr, Former Senior Assistant Commissioner, Management Improvement Division

Ms R. Medd, Former Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch

Commonwealth Ombudsman

Mr R. Goldstein, Senior Assistant Ombudsman

Mr B. Hugg, Executive Officer

Merit Protection and Review Agency

Mr P . Gifford, Director

Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security

Mr P„ Moss, Executive Officer

Bicentennial Authority

Mr J. Kirk, Chairman

Mr W. C . Fairbanks, General Manager, Finance and Management Services

29.

Department of Finance

4.

Mr P. Pharaoh, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Education and Employment Division

The Chairman called on the following programs for examination:

Program 5 : Program 1 :

Program 3 :

Program 4 :

Program 5 :

Program 6 :

Australian Bicentennial Authority Policy Advising Departmental Australian Science and Technology Council

Economic Planning Advisory Council Public Administration and Accountability Public Service Commission Commonwealth Ombudsman

Office of the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security Special Sectoral Support Multicultural Affairs

Status of Women Australian Bicentenary Departmental Corporate Services

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers of the Department to provide additional information to the Committee.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Susan Ryan, Special Minister of State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Industrial Relations

Mr G. McGill, Acting Deputy Secretary

Mr R. Stewart-Crompton, Acting First Assistant and Secretary, Industrial Relations Policy Division

Mr B . Frawley, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Relations Operations Division

Ms R. Campbell, Assistant Secretary, Pay (General) Branch

Mr P. Fisher, Senior Assistant Secretary, Arbitration Inspectorate

Mr G. Evans, Assistant Secretary, Policy Co-ordination and International Branch

30.

Mr G. Ryan, Assistant Secretary, General Industry C Branch

Mr D. MacDonald, Assistant Secretary, Working Environment Branch

Mr J. Walker, Director, Resources Management

Mr P. Marshall, Assistant Director, Resources Management

Office of the Industrial Registrar

Mr J. Leyden, Manager, Administration

Mr P. Parry, Assistant Manager, Finance

Affirmative Action Agency -

Ms V. Pratt, Director

Ms D. Kitchen, Administrative Officer

Trade Union Training Authority

Mr K. Stone, National Director

Mr A. Conheady, Manager, Administration and Finance

National Occupational Health and Safety Commission

Mr J. Brassil, Chairman

Mr M. Dando, Assistant Director, Corporate Services

Department of Finance

Mr J. Buckley, Senior Finance Officer, Immigration and Industrial Relations Section

The Chairman called on the following programs for examination:

Program 1 : National Industrial Relations, Wage and Income Program Industrial relations advising Affirmative Action Agency Conciliation and arbitration National Occupational Health and Safety

Commission Trade Union Training Authority Arbitration Inspectorate Special Industry legislation Working Environment

Program 2 : Australian Government Remuneration and Condition Public Services working conditions Public Services pay and classification

Mr T. Munyard, Assistant Secretary, Management Branch

31.

Defence force conditions of service Remuneration Tribunals

Program 3 : Corporate Services Executive, policy co-ordination and international relations General services

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers of the Department to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 6.07 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE

All members of the Committee were in attendance except for Senator Alston. Senator Michael Baume was also in attendance.

CONFIRMED:

(Bruce Childs) Chairman

32.

A U S T R A L I A N S E N A T E C A N BERRA, A.C.T.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF MEETING

No. 4

WEDNESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 1987

MEETING

The Committee met in private session at 4.03 pm. The Chairman (Senator Childs) took the Chair.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

The minutes of meetings nos. 1-3 held on 6 and 15 October 1987 were confirmed.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE

The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report to the Senate and agreed that the report be adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 4.05 p.m.

ATTENDANCE

Senators Childs (Chairman), Burns and Chapman. Apologies were received from Senators Alston, Bishop and Cook.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Bruce Childs Chairman

■

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED IN

PUBLIC HEARINGS

35

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

HANSARD

Tuesday, 6 October 1987

ISSUES CONTENTS

Page

PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

THE SENATE

President's statement 2

Correspondence between Presiding Officers and Minister for Finance 2-5

Savings resulting from changes in security and information systems management 6

Cost of providing services in new Parliament House 7 Department of Senate functions to be subsumed into Joint House administration 8

Cost of move to new Parliament House 8

Costs of new stationery 9

Schools Information Kit 9

Hospitality costs involved in opening of the New Parliament House 10

Problems with information systems 10

Computer networking facilities and public data bases 11

Salaries outlays 12

Issue of Bills, Acts and statutory rules 12

Allocation of funds to Committees 12

Capital expenditure on Parliament House 14

Determination of Remunerations Tribunal 14

37.

DEPARTMENT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REPORTING STAFF

President's statement 15

Recruitment of reporters 15

Sessional overtime payments 16

PARLIAMENTARY LIBRARY

President's statement 16

Information systems in the new Parliament House 16 Movement to the new Parliament House 17

JOINT HOUSE DEPARTMENT

President's statement 17

Estimates of costs in running new Parliament House in a full year 17

Telephone services in new Parliament House 18

Catering Services 18

Employment of casual staff 19

Revenue from catering services in the new Parliament House 19

Problems of graffiti vandalism 19

Problems of defining the precincts of Parliament 20 Capital expenditure 21

Staff recruitment costs 21

New Parliament House provisioning costs 21

Use of second-hand furniture in the new Parliament House 22

Public relations costs 22

Compensation costs 22

Consultancy costs 22

38.

DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Office of the Governor-General

Increased costs of maintaining establishments 23 Travel costs 23

Costs resulting from Bicentenary 23

Costs of hiring RAAF aircraft 24

Publications charges 24

Bicentenary travel costs 24

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

Program 1 - Industry Policy & Development

Minister's opening statement 25

Questions on notice from Senator Short 26

Trade union attitude to heavy engineering assistance program 27

Progress of steel industry plan 28

Work practices & industrial disputes in steel mills 28 Productivity of Smorgans steel mills and comparisons with BHP mills 29

Reduction in steel bounty payments 29

Research and development grants 30

Tax concession applications and effectiveness of tax concessions scheme 30

Progress on metric conversion 30

Progress on uniform weights and measures 30

Capital injection into Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation 30

Industrial disputes at Port Kembla 31

Performance comparisons between Port Kembla and whyalla 31 Effect of industrial disputes on the steel plan, and Government's intentions 32

Efficiency and productivity in steel industry 32 Book bounty payments 33

Total cost of bounty schemes 33

Cultivation machinery bounty 33

Increase in fertilizer subsidy 33

39.

Tax concessions for industrial research 33

IAC involvement in bounty schemes scrutiny 34

Increased bounty on textile yarns 34

Reduced grants for industrial infrustructure development 34 Assistance to Leighton - MTA consortium 34

Housing costs reduction program 34

Motor industry plan 35

Export facilitation scheme 35

Progress in rationalisation of motor industry 36 Review of the motor industry scheme 37

Motor vehicle component development scheme 37

Minister's response to an economist's view of the motor industry plan 37

National industry extension scheme progress 38 Claim by APPM of unfair treatment by DITAC 38

Corporate citizenship 38

Government purchase of IBM equipment 39

Auditor-General's comments on motor vehicle plan 39 Cost of Minister's press clipping service 40

Processing time for patents and trade marks 40

Staffing of Patents and Trade Marks Office 41

Program 4 - Australian Customs Service

Minister's statement on performance of Customs Service 41 Overpayment by Customs of $9m under diesel fuel rebate scheme 41

Auditor-General's recommendation on inbound passenger control system 42

Compliance with Auditor-General's recommendations 43 Customs' role in motor vehicle manufacturing plan 43 Diesel fuel rebate applications from Tasmanian loggers 43 Customs employees and equipment in Deakin Offices 44 Alleged secret smuggling and illegal immigrant flights 44

Surveillance measures in Northern Australia 44 Revenue from uranium exports 45

Funding of drug summit meeting 45

Transport allowance paid to employees at Sydney Airport 45

40.

Program 5 - Australian Trade Commission (Austrade)

Television film production funded by Austrade 45 Cost to Austrade of export awards 46

Program 7 - Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation

Privatisation of CSIRONET 46

Sale of surplus CSIRO property 46

Private funding of CSIRO in institutions 46

Continued involvement of CSIRO in CSIRONET 47

Reduction in spending on CSIRO Office of Space Science 48 CSIRO staff reductions 48

41.

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND COMMERCE

ISSUES CONTENTS

Monday, 19 October 1987

Program 1 - Industry Policy and Development

Page

Responsibility for car expenses 49

Changes in DAS Transport division 50

Leasing of motor vehicles - cost savings 50

Program 2 - Commission for the Future

Unions of the future - joint project with ACTU 51 Private sector funding of projects and surveys 52 Commissioner's expenses and meeting schedules 53 Commissioner's involvement in CSIRO research

on climatic changes 53

Commissioner's role in scientific research 54 Commissioner's use of polling organisations 54 Involvement of ANU Demography Department in future research 54

Study of future of telecommunications 55

Ownership as a factor in future of telecommunications 55

Initiation of lines of research 55

Co-operation with Government departments and state governments 55

Details of Supplementation of funds from federal government departments, State governments and private sector 56

Role of the Commission the development of a scientific culture 56

42.

Program 2.1 - Australian Institute of Marine Science

Payment of Customs duty 56

Use of AIMS research 57

Fisheries research 57

Problems of crayfish industry 57

Asia-Pacific co-operation 57

Cost of hosting 6th International Coral Reef Symposium 57

Level of research into crown-of-thorns starfish 58 Joint funding with Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority 58

Great Barrier Reef mapping project 58

Involvement in salmon research 58

Program 6 - Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation

Possible interference by pressure groups on work of organisation 59

Food irradiation research involving collaboration with foreign research agencies 59

Commercial application of ANSTO research 60 Expenditure of synroc project 60

Program on synthetic cold plant 61

Reduction in health and safety expenditure 61 HI FAR upgrading - costs and safety measurers 61 Expenditure on cyclotron facility 62

Beginnings of synroc project 62

43.

DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Program 5 - Australia Bicentennial Authority

Close-down date for Authority 64

Sale of Authority's assets 64

Auditor-General's report on the accountability of Authority 64

Authority's efficiency audit 64

ABA grants 65

Criteria for approval of grants 65

Greatest Stories Never Told project 65

Scrutiny of grants expenditure and accountability 65 Problem of determining efficiency of outlays 66 Staff severance payments 66

Increase in support service expenditure 66

Late publication of annual report 66

Free television advertising time 67

Involvement with Australia Council, the ABC and other artistic entrepreneurs 67

ABA involvement with Music Board of the Australia Council 67

Split-up of administrative costs 68

Impact of 'user-pay' principle on ABA 68

Bicentenary fireworks displays 68

ABA staff structure and salary levels 68

ABA funding and expenditure 69

First-fleet re-enactment and 'tall ships' arrival 69 Revenue from sale of logos 70

B.H.P. contribution to travelling exhibitions 70 Logistics of the travelling exhibition 70

Question of net or gross expenditure 70

Insurance of travelling exhibition 70

\ ·

44.

Program 1 - Policy Advising

Hospitality expenses 71

Visits of foreign dignatories 72

Cost of opening new Parliament House 72

Expenditure on renovations to Kiribilli House 73 Use of Australian Protective Services 73

Hiring of private protective organisations 73 Internal departmental transfers of resources 73 Costs arising from 'user-pays' principle 73

Outfit of Morgan Grenfell House, Sydney 74

Incidence of cabinet meetings in Sydney 74

Transfer expenses 74

Staff increase 74

Sub-Program 1.2 - Australian Science and Technology Council

Formation of Australian Research Council 75

ASTEC report on research priorities 75

Independence of ASTEC 75

Sub-Program 1.4 - Economic Planning Advisory Council

EPAC membership 75

Independence of EPAC 76

EPAC contribution to Budget deliberations 76 Diminished EPAC activities 76

Nature of EPAC research 77

Use of computer equipment 77

Changes in EPAC membership 77

Meeting schedules and agendas 78

EPAC report made public 78

45 .

Sub-Program 3.1 - Public Service Commissioner

Advertising SES positions 78

Proportion of women in the SES 78

Selection of performance of women in SES 78

Public Service Union attitudes to staff transfers 79 Cuts in personnel management outlays 79

Proposed establishment of public sector research centre 79

Allocations for expected redundancy payments 80 Re-deployment of surplus SES officers 80

Sub-Program 3.3 - Merit Protection and Review Agency

Combined functioning of review and grievance committees 80

Backlog of grievance cases 81

Staff reduction figures 81

Rise in salary costs 81

Improvements in efficiency 82

Sub-Program 3.4 - Office of the Inspection-General of Intelligence and Security

Incidence of complaints before the Office 82 Tabling of the annual report 82

Program 4 - Office of Multicultural Affairs

Error contained in Appropriation Bill 82

Allocation of funds to community groups 82

Questions of long-term strategy 82

Use of 'affirmative action' program 82

Problems of women in ethnic community groups 83 Problem of women in remote areas 84

46.

Question of the office interviewing with particular government department in case of discrimination against its clients 84

Advice to the Prime Minister 84

Education and information program 84

Co-operation with state instrumentalities 84

Sub-Program 4.2 - Office of the Status of Women

Increased funding for meeting of National Women's Advising Council 84

Survey on rural women 85

Children's services program and child care policy 85 Child care program assessment 86

Bicentennial women's program 86

Listing of women on government appointment register 86

Appointment of women to statutory bodies 87

Grants to various bodies 87

Domestic violence information campaign 87

Salary increases offset by fall in administrative expenses 87

Portrayal of women in the media 88

Efficiency improvement 88

Additional information on grants distribution 88 Underspending on women's programs 89

Increase in consultation and information costs 89 Grants to NWCC affiliated bodies 90

Guidelines for future grants implementing the National agenda 90

Program 5 - Australian bicentenary - Departmental

Commonwealth-State Bicentennial program 90 Salary levels in the division 90

47.

Program 6 - Corporate Services

Average salary levels of the executive 91

Ministerial car services 91

Cabinet meetings in Sydney 91

Sydney office of the department 91

Apportioning of Sydney Commonwealth offices -responsibility of PM & C Department 91

Amount for relocation of portfolio agencies 92

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Program 1 - National Industrial Relations, Wages and Income Programs

Changes to Department's structure 93

SES structure 93

Industrial democracy discussion paper -government response 93

Initiation of second tier arrangements for wage determinations 94

Monitoring of developments in the second tier 94 Effect of union amalagamation on employer organisations 94

Number of officers engaged in drafting industrial Relations Bill 95

Consultation with unions and employers on the Bill 95

Sub-Program 1.5 - Affirmative Action Agency

Expenditure on accommodation, furniture and fittings 96

Affirmative action guidelines for private and higher education sectors 96

Definitions of merit 96

Definitions of affirmative action 96

Cost of program to private sector 97

Promotion of better competition 97

Guidelines affecting trade unions 98

48.

Sub-Program 1.6 - Conciliation and Arbitration

Payout arrangements for Mr. Justice Staples 98 Sydney removal costs 98

Payment of dead rent 98

Problem with Sydney accommodation 99

Sub-Program 1.7 - National Occupational Health and Safety Commission

Maximum lifting weight 99

Productivity effects of regulation 100

Cost-benefits of industrial safety 100

Response of industry to guidelines 100

Derivation of original 1987-88 estimate 100 Release of recommended code of practice on manual handling 101

List of publications and current projects 101 Refurbishing costs - chairman's office 101

Cost of overseas trips 101

Sub-Program 1.8 - Trade Union Training Authority

Justification of training courses 102

Restructions of TUTA and its decline in revenue 102 Policy on cost-recovery and fee changes 103

Comparison of TUTA and TAPE courses 103

Payment of study leave by employers 103

TUTA's role in improvement of work practices 103 Employer access to TUTA courses 104

49.

Program 1 - National Industrial Relations, Wages and Income Program

Increased administrative expenses and expences incurred in overseas missions 104

Department assessment of improvements in productivity under the second tier 104

Updating of trade recognition criteria 105

Language as a criteria in selection of skilled migrants 105

Use of wage incentives to reduce shortages of skills 105

Department's involvement with National Labour Consultative Committee on Multicultural Affairs 105 Concern about incidence of tradesmen working outside of their trades 106

Backlog of prospective skilled migrants 106

Unfilled vacancies in Technical Adviseres Service 106

Sub-Program 1.2 - Arbitration Inspectorate

Records of breaches of awards 106

Procedures of Inspectorate when breaches of award are found 107

Statistical data on over-award payments 107

Level of knowledge of awards 107

Recovery of penalties for award breaches 107

Common offenders in award breaches 108

Work of the Inspectorate among workers frequently subject to discrimination 108

Statistics on award offences 108

Co-operation been state and federal labour inspectors 108

Inspectorate's attitude to agreements to accept below award wages 109

Identification of awards subject to most frequent breaches 109

Decisions as to what companies are to be inspected 109 Inspections promoted by complaints 110

50.

Coal Mining Industry Long Service Leave Fund -availability of sufficient funds 110

Increase in excise to increase redundancy payment funds 110

Sub-Program 1.4 - Working Environment

Announcement of governments strategy for industrial democracy 111

Government attitude to ACTU ideas on industrial democracy ' 111

Legislation to give unions a role in decision making in individual firms 111

Support for financial participation schemes 111 Employer attitudes to industrial democracy 112 Legal obstacles to shared ownership of firms through share purchase 112

Increased productivity resulting from share ownership by workers 112

Power of Department to take evidence 112

Incidence of financial participation by employers 113

Program 2 - Australian Government Remuneration and Conditions

Redevelopment and retirement awards for voluntary retrenchment 113

Public Service incentives for skills enhancement 113 Incidence of RSI in Public Service 113

Statistics on early retirement due to RSI 114

Public Service unions attitudes to changes in aadministrative arrangements over pay 114 DIR involvement in second tier wage increase 114 Reform of PS work classification structures 114 Unavailability of information on Defence Force

conditions of service 114

Sub-Program 1.3 - Special Industry Legislation

51.

Effect of new administrative arrangements on information availability 115

Allowance for submariners, pilots and service personnel 115

Possible controvension of ILO conventions by Queensland labour legislation 115

Travel allowances for representatives at ILO conferences 115

52.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

NOVEMBER 1987

53.

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 21 September 1987 the Senate referred to the

Committee Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1988, Particulars of Certain Proposed

Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1988 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for

the year ended on 30 June 1987 relating to the Departments of Transport and Communications and Foreign Affairs and Trade.

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of the

Departments together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received explanations from the Minister for Transport and Communications (Senator the Hon. G.J. Evans Q.C.), the

Minister for Justice (Senator the Hon. M.C. Tate) and officers

of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee is appended to this Report. In addition, Hansard

reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1987-88 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1987-88. An

index to issues raised in the Committee's hearings is likewise appended to this Report. Written answers to questions taken on

notice will be tabled in a volume entitled Written Replies to Questions Asked Purina Estimates Committee B Examination of

Proposed Expenditure For 1987-88.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters arising from its consideration of the

Estimates:

55.

PROGRAM BUDGETING

The 1987-88 Estimates saw the majority of Departments present

their Explanatory Notes in a program budgeting format. Although the program budgeting pilot project began with the 1985-86

Estimates, a number of Senators found the new format hard to

follow. These difficulties were exacerbated by the restructuring

of Departments and the fact that components of some Departments - such as the elements of the former Department of Aviation

within the Transport and Communications portfolio - and some

statutory authorities retain the old appropriation format.

The Committee recommends that greater efforts be made to assist

Senators and their staff in understanding the program budgeting format. Whether it will achieve its purpose in enabling

Estimates Committees to focus on the purposes of government programs and on their efficiency and effectiveness remains to be

seen. The Committee notes that the nature of the performance

indicators against which programs are to be evaluated varies widely between Departments and even within Departments.

Estimates Committees will need to devote greater attention to these indicators in future hearings.

In the meanwhile the Committee has identified one major concern

in relation to the new program budgeting format. Although the intention is to identify the true cost of particular programs by

aggregating all elements of expenditure in practice the allocation of Departmental responsibilities prevents this. In

particular the costs of purchase and construction or rental of buildings all come out of the appropriations of the Department

of Administrative Services. This arrangement is apparently under review (Hansard. 6 October 1987, page B24) but the Committee

suggests that, even if that review results in no change to the

present arrangements, Departmental Explanatory Notes should in

future indicate the costs associated with the rental or purchase of the buildings utilised by the relevant Department.

56.

OFFICERS ATTENDING HEARINGS

Although large numbers of officers attended the hearings from

both Departments there were occasions when relatively

straightforward questions had to be taken on notice because no

properly briefed officer was present. Thus no officer from the

former Department of Trade was able to state whether the Trade

Development Council was totally taxpayer funded (Hansard.

6 October 1987/ page B6) and there was no officer from Radio

Australia to explain an apparent increase in the salary and

staff costs of the Indonesian and Chinese programme units when

the air time accorded to these programmes was to be cut

(Hansard. 19 October 1987, page B60).

The Committee recognises that it will always be difficult for

Departments to anticipate all the questions which may be asked

by Senators and that inevitably certain questions - particularly

those calling for detailed breakdowns of staff and the like -

will have to be taken on notice. However the Committee considers

that as a minimum the officers in attendance should be

adequately briefed to explain the budgetary status of government

instrumentalities and to answer questions arising directly out

of the variations in expenditure set out in the Explanatory

Notes.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the

assistance given by the Minister for Justice, the Minister for Transport and Communications and the officers of the Departments

concerned.

(Arthur Gietzelt)

Chairman

57.

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

59

■

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 1

TUESDAY, 6 OCTOBER 1987

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 4.20 pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1 & 2.

2. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Committee Secretary called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Gietzelt was nominated by Senator MacGibbon. There being no further nominations, Senator Gietzelt was declared elected and then took the

chair. .

3. AUTHORISATION TO PUBLISH DOCUMENTS: On the motion of Senator MacGibbon, the Committee resolved that: The Committee authorises the publication of all documents presented to it in the course of its hearings, and authorises the publication

of written replies and other documents which may be forwarded to it after hearings have been completed.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987/88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986/87 - DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE.

5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. M.C. Tate, Minister for Justice, representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Mr P.J. Flood

Dr R. Dun

Mr J.H. Brook

Deputy Secretary

Director General Australian International Development Assistance Bureau, AI DAB

First Assistant Secretary Legal and Consular Division

Dr R.C. Manning Deputy Director General

Community, Commercial and International Programs Division, AIDAB

61.

Mr F.C. Murray First Assistant Secretary

Corporate Management Division

Mr C.E.T. Terrell Deputy Director General

Country Programs Division, AI DAB

Mr H.M. Loveday MBE Acting First Assistant

Secretary International Organisations, Information and Cultural Division

Mr R .A. Walker Acting First Assistant

Secretary Disarmament, Defence and Nuclear Division

Ms J.A. Hewitt Principal Adviser

Economic and Trade Development Division

Mr A. Agafonoff Assistant Director General

South East Asia Branch, AIDAB

Mr K.W. Aspinall Assistant Director General

Contracts and Commercial Programs Branch, AIDAB

Ms M.J. Bennett Assistant Secretary

Personnel, Development and General Services Branch

Mr G.M. Brennan Assistant Secretary

South Pacific, Africa, Middle East and South Asia Branch (Trade)

Mr R. Casson Assistant Director General

Asia, Africa and Bilateral Co-ordination Branch, AIDAB

Mr D.P. Connors Assistant Secretary

Security and Communications Branch

Mr J.H. Crighton Assistant Secretary

North Asia Branch

Mr J.C. Dauth Assistant Secretary

Public Affairs Branch

62.

Mr N.P. Davis

Mr P.W. Gallagher

Mr P.A. Hussin

Mr R. Irwin

Mr T. Kanaley

Assistant Secretary North Asia and South East Asia Branch (Trade)

Assistant Secretary Trade Negotiations Branch "B"

Assistant Secretary Trade Negotiations Branch "A"

Assistant Director General Pacific and Papua New Guinea Branch, AIDAB

Assistant Director General Policy Branch, AIDAB

Mr P.M. Knight Assistant Secretary

South East Asia Branch

Mr R.E. Little

Mr C.E. McDonald

Mrs T.L. Shand

Mr R.E. Stensholt

Mr A.R. Taylor

Mr J.M. Trotter

Dr H. Ware

Mr I.H. Cousins

Mr G.J. Forrester

Executive Director Australia-China Council

Assistant Secretary Americas Branch

Assistant Secretary Africa, Middle East and South Asia Branch

Assistant Director General Financial and Resource Management Branch, AIDAB

Assistant Secretary Peace, Arms Control and Disarmament Branch

Assistant Secretary South Pacific Branch

Assistant Director General International Organisations and Programs Branch, AIDAB

Acting Assistant Secretary Nuclear Policy Branch

Acting Assistant Secretary International Organisations Branch

63.

Mr D.J. Harris Acting Assistant Secretary

Systems Development Branch

Ms A. O'Keeffe Acting Assistant Director

General, Community Programs and Students Branch, AIDAB

Mr E.S. Radclyffe Acting Assistant Secretary

Consular and Passports Branch

Mr B. Davis Director

Corporate Planning, Budget and Effectiveness Review Section, AI DAB

Mr A.J. Deacon Head, Cultural Relations

Section

Dr V.J. Hull Director

Sectorial Studies Section, AI DAB

Mr H.J. Hurst Di rector

Production Section Promotion Australia

Dr P. Pettman Di rector

U.N. and Commonwealth Programs Section, AIDAB

Mr B. Ray Di rector

Refugees and Disaster Co-ordination Section, AIDAB

Mr w . D'Rozario Di rector

Finance, Accounting and Management Support Section, AIDAB

Mr A. Vale Di rector

Non-Government Organisations Programs and Liaison Section, AIDAB

Dr A. Wilkinson Di rector

Food Aid Section, AIDAB

Ms S. Wood Di rector

Appraisals Section, AIDAB

Mr I. Booth Acting Director

Commercial Programs and Business Liaison Section, AIDAB

64.

Mr G. Marks

Mr G.J. Thompson

Dr J . Ryan

Mr A. Barden

Mr J. Russell

Mrs J. Seymour

Acting Director International Financial Institutions Section, AIDAB

Acting Director Budget and Resources Section

Deputy Director Australian Centre for International Agricultural

Research, (A.C.I.A.R.)

Manager Corporate Services (A.C.I.A.R.)

Corporate Planning, Budget and Effectiveness Review Section, AIDAB

Finance, Accounting and Management Support Section, AIDAB

Department of Finance

Ms W.L. Fisher Chief Finance Officer

The Chairman called on for consideration the following Programs:

Program 1 - International and Trade Relations Program 2 - Aid Program 3 - Consular and Passports Program 4 - Overseas Support Services Program 5 - Corporate Services Program 6 - Australian Secret Intelligence Service

Together the expenditure in these Programs included the expenditure proposed under Divisions 315,316,317 and 318 (Document A) and 873 and 875 (Document B).

The Committee also considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1987.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987/88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986/87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers of the Department of Foreign Affairs

and Trade to provide additional information to the Committee.

The following document was provided at the hearing by the Officers: AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE BUREAU - Additional Information For The Senate Estimates Committee 1987/88.

65.

A question on notice submitted by Senator Short for all Departments was, by leave, incorporated in Hansard.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987/88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986/87 - DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS

7. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. G.J. Evans, Minister for Transport and Communications accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Transport and Communications:

Mr K.H. Toakley - First Assistant Secretary, Resources Division

Special Broadcasting Service

Mr S. Kerkyasharian Mr P. Conroy Mr D. Low Mr R. Cowing

Acting Executive Director (SBS) Head of Radio (SBS) Acting Head of Television (SBS) Director, Finance (SBS)

Australian Broadcasting Tribunal

Mr M.J. Barry - General Manager (ABT) Mr J.B. Adamson - Acting Director, Licensing Division (ABT) Mr W.R. Vickery - Director, Corporate Services (ABT)

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Mr K. Jackson - Controller, Corporate Relations (ABC) Mr G. Moriarty - Assistant Managing Director, Resources (ABC)

Department of Finance

Ms W.L. Fisher Chief Finance Officer

The Chairman called on for consideration the proposed expenditure in relation to the Australian Broadcasting Tribunal, the Special Broadcasting Service, and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Together this expenditure included the expenditure proposed under Sub-divisions 662.1 and 662.2 and Division 665

(Document A) and Sub-divisions 973.1 and 973.2 (Document B). The Committee concluded its examination of the proposed expenditure in relation to the Australian Broadcasting Tribunal and the Special Broadcasting Service but further consideration of the proposed expenditure in relation to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation was postponed until the next meeting of the Committee.

66.

The following documents were provided at the hearing by officers of the A.B.C.: INITIATIVES TO IMPROVE ABC EFFICIENCY and AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION PROGRESS REPORT ON ACTION TAKEN TO OVERCOME ADVERSE CRITICISMS BY THE AUDITOR-GENERAL, and

are to be incorporated in the volume of Written Answers to be subsequently tabled in the Senate.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 pm.

9. ATTENDANCE: Senator Gietzelt (Chair) and Senators Schacht, MacGibbon, Panizza, Maguire and Brownhill. Senators Messner Reid, Durack, Chaney, Walters and Michael Baume also attended.

Chairman

67.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 2

MONDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1987

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.00 am. The Chairman, Senator Gietzelt took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987/88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986/87 - DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. G.J. Evans, Minister for Transport and Communications, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Transport and Communications

Mr R. Beale Associate Secretary

Mr K.H. Toakley First Assistant Secretary

Resources Division

Mr M.R. Ramsay Principal Advisor

Resources Division

Mr R.N. Smith

MR V.H. Jones

Mr W. Upton

Mr J. Elliott

Mrs F. Holthuyzen

First Assistant Secretary Broadcasting Policy and Planning Division

First Assistant Secretary Broadcasting Services Division

First Assistant Secretary Land Transport Policy Division

Acting Assistant Secretary Land Transport Development Branch

Acting Assistant Secretary Rail Branch

68.

Mr B. Cox Assistant Secretary

Roads 1 A' Branch

Mrs C. Boughton Assistant Secretary

Road User Branch

Dr M. Haddad Director Bureau of Transport and

Communications Economics

Mr G. Bowen Senior Assistant Secretary

Commercial Branch, International Shipping Policy

Ms V. Fanning Acting First Assistant Secretary

International Shipping Policy

Mr I. Grigor First Assistant Secretary

Domestic Shipping Policy

Mr C . Thorpe Assistant Secretary

Shipping Industry Branch Domestic Shipping Policy

Mr C. Davidson Acting Senior Assistant Secretary

Safety Operations and Pollution Branch

Mr B . O'Keeffe First Assistant Secretary

Airways Division

Mr J. Richardson Assistant Secretary

Air Traffic Services Branch Airways Division

Mr J. Huggett First Assistant Secretary

Airports Division

Ms C. Goode First Assistant Secretary

International Policy Division

Mr R. Cooper Director

Bureau of Air Safety Investigation

Mr P. Bowen First Assistant Secretary

Domestic Policy Division

Mr J. O'Day First Assistant Secretary

Flight Standards Division

Mr J. Wright Assistant Secretary

Flying Operations Branch Flight Standards Division

Mr G. 0'Halloran Acting Assistant Secretary

Operations Branch Federal Airport Corporation

69.

Mr T. Grant Mr T. Grant First Assistant Secretary Special Projects Division

Mr K. Groening Special Projects Division

Mr P.J. Merner First Assistant Secretary

Personnel and Management Services Division

Mr H. Wall Assistant Secretary

Personnel and Services

Mr M.J. Mayoh Assistant Secretary

Finance Branch

Mr J. Maclean Assistant Secretary

Finance Branch

Mr F. Hinkley Director

Administrative Liaison Roads Division

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

Mr G. Moriarty Acting Managing Director

Mr K. Jackson Controller

Corporate Relations

Mr M. Long Director

Radio

Mr N. Lamerton Director

Finance

Ms E. Atkin Special Projects Officer

Corporate Relations

Mr I McGarrity Director

Television

Mr B. Donald General Manager

Legal Administrative Services

INTER-STATE COMMISSION

Mr F. Keith Secretary

Inter-State Commission

Mr 0. Rodda Executive Officer

Inter-State Commission

70.

I

Department

Mr R . Wilken

Mr G. Piko

of Finance

Senior Finance Officer

Senior Finance Officer

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure in relation to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. The Chairman then called on for consideration the following programs:-

Program 1 - Land Transport Program 2 - Maritime Program 3 - Inter-State Commission Program 4 - Broadcasting Program 5 - Radio Frequency Management Program 6 - Satellite, Telecommunications and Postal

Services

Program 7 - Communications Development Program 8 - Aviation Program 9 - Corporate Support

Together the expenditure in these Programs included the expenditure proposed under Divisions 660, 661, 662, 663, 664 and 665 (Document A) and 972, 973 and 975 (Document B).

The Committee also considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1987.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987/88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986/87, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers of the Department of Transport and Communications to provide additional information to the

Committee.

The Committee received the following document:-- Answers to questions taken on notice from Senators Brownhill and Newman for S.B.S., A.B.C., Telecom and Australia Post.

The following documents were, by leave, incorporated in Hansard:

- Questions taken on notice from Senator Brownhill for Telecom, Australia Post and the A.B.C.

- Questions taken on notice from Senator Newman for the A.B.C., Telecom and Australia Post.

- Questions taken on notice from Senator Harradine for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

A letter from Ms J. Hewitt, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

71.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 5.50 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senator Gietzelt (Chair) and Senators Schacht, MacGibbon, Panizza, Devereux and Brownhill. Senators Messner and Durack also attended.

CONFIRMED:

Chairman

72.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 3

MONDAY. 2 NOVEMBER 1987

MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 12.10pm in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. In the absence of Senator Gietzelt, Senator Devereux took the Chair.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: On the motion of Senator Brownhill, the minutes of the public hearings on 6 October 1987 and 19 October 1987 were confirmed.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: On the motion of Senator

Brownhill, the Committee agreed to adopt the Chairman's draft report to the Senate. However, Senator Brownhill asked that it be noted that questions placed on notice should be replied to within the specified time frame or an

explanation be given to the Senator asking the question.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.15pm.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Devereux, Brownhill and Panizza.

APOLOGIES: Senators Gietzelt, MacGibbon and Schacht.

Certified Correct

(Arthur Gietzelt) Chairman

73.

"

■

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

INDEX TO ISSUES

RAISED IN COMMITTEE HEARINGS

75

! ■ 1 ■

-

%

- . ■ - . .

■

HANSARD

INDEX OF ISSUES

Page

6 October 1987

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

B4

B4 + 5

B5, 6 + 7

B7

B7 + 8

B8

B8 B8, 9 + 1 1

B9 + 10

B9 + 10

BIO + 11

Bll

Bll Bll + 12

B12 + 13

Grants to trade unions or community groups in

1986-87 Program budgeting format

Trade Development Council - Australia Reconstructed Portland Aluminium Smelter

Government payments to facilitate the participation of a foreign nation in a

commercial development in Australia

Cairns Group A.N.U. Indonesian project Overseas visits program

- South Africa Australia abroad program Local Government non-beneficial rates on diplomatic and consular properties in

Australia Facilitation Fund for Bilateral and Regional

Relations

Overseas publicity Exchange rate for estimates Australia - Britain Society Congressional liaison office in the

Washington Embassy

77.

B13 + 14 B13 + 14

B14

European Community - international farm trade

policies

United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus

B14 Commonwealth Secretariat

B14 + 15 The International Labour Organisation B15 The Commonwealth Foundation

B15 Peace and disarmament

B15,16,17,18 + 19 Aid payments - Fiji

- Indonesia - evaluation

- Cook Islands - Southern Africa

Î’17 AIDAB - staffing outlays

Î’19 Sheep breeding for improved wool quality in

northwest China

Î’20 Aid payment - China

Î’20 Support for Australian NGO's

Î’20,21,22 + 23 ACIAR research - grain storage - beef and lamb storage

- wattle silviculture - forestry research

- soil conservation - socioeconomics

Î’23 Staff years for AIDAB and ACIAR

Î’24, 25 + 26 AIDAB - administrative running costs - ADP Î’2 6,27 Consular matters

Î’27 Search for pilots off West Africa coast

Î’27 + 28 Passports

Î’2 8 Visas

Î’28 Travel grants

Î’29 Motor vehicles

Î’29 + 30 Indonesian car inquiry

Î’30 Fringe benefit tax

Î’31 Foreign service support

Î’31 Communications

Î’32 Security

78.

B32 Corporate services

B32 Management services

B32 A.S.I.S.

B32 Analysis of salaries and administrative

expenses of overseas missions

B33 Leighton - MTA consortium

Department of Transport and Communications

A.B.T.

B35, 39 + 40 - new system of auctioning FM radio

B36 + 37 - advertising standards

- public broadcasting sector

B37 + 38 - program regulations and standards

B38 + 39 - administrative expenses

B39 - staff years

B40

B40 + 41 B41

B41

B41 B41

B41 + 42

B42 B42 B42, 43 + 44

B43 + 46

B43 B43

B45 B46

S . B . S .

- individual state expenditure

- staff numbers - UHF frequency penetration in Adelaide

- extension of S.B.S. programming - breakdown of the 512 staff members - estimate for furniture, fittings and

repairs

- shared facilities with the A.B.C.

- radio stations - support to other radio stations

- audience for radio - research

- consultant fees - 500cc motorcycle championship telecast

- news service - marketing of S.B.S. material Waiting time for witnesses due to appear

before Estimates Committees

79.

19 October 1987

B49 B49 B49

B49

B49

B49

B49

B50 B50

B50

B50

B50

Department of Transport and Communications

Telecom Questions on Notice

- Telecom Business offices - Joint venture with Exicom Ltd

- "Standard time and frequency"

- STD

- XXII International Congress on Occupational

Health

- National Customers Survey

50 - Card telephones

- ABA

- I.D card preparation - use of Stevie Wonder song in commercial

Australia Post Questions on Notice

- America's Cup stamps

- use of Elton John song in commercial

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

51 Assistance from and involvement by Australia with the United Nations Fund for Population

Activities (UNFPA)

A.C.T.U./Trade Development Council mission

Department of Transport and Communications

A.B.C. - Including Questions on Notice

- Odeon, Hobart

- Sydney Symphony Orchestra

80.

B50

Γ52

B53

B53 + 54

B54

B54, 55 + 61 B55

B55 + 56

B56

B56 + 57

B57

BB57 + 58

B58

B58

B58

B58 + 59

B59 B59 + 60

B60

B60 B60, 61 + 64

B61

B61

- Melbourne Symphony Orchestra - West Australian Symphony Orchestra

- desire to account fully for decisions - Auditor-General's report

- status report on the work of the task force - fringe benefits tax liability - revenue from co-production of programs

- rationalisation of services - allocation of staff - inventory of assets

- disadvantage of current affairs staff compared with.commercial stations

- decline of audiences in radio, television and concerts - remuneration of personalities

- objectives of A.B.C.

- abolition of nine senior management positions - possible problems to the A.B.C. caused by changes in ownership of television and

radio - i.e. effect on staff - exchange of staff with the commercial

sector

- reduction in school broadcasts and horse

racing

- reduction in television entertainment, music and feature programs - programs axed because of budget cut-backs

- Corporate sponsorship

- surveys and target audiences - reduction in Radio Australia news and current affairs programs and Chinese and

Indonesian progams - country recitals by A.B.C. orchestras

- second regional radio network - accounting procedures: unused equipment

- marketing section

81.

B61 + 62 - revenue from domestic radio

B62 - Winfield snooker series

B62 + 63 - screening of "Bliss"

B63 - sale of television programs to domestic

commercial stations

B63 - production of "The True Believers"

B63 - alcohol and tobacco sponsorship

B63 + 64 - Board's agreed guidelines on sponsorship

B64 - reduction in receipt of interest in the

corporate area

B64 - technology in ABC radio service

B65 - breakdown of program units

B65 - Australian Women's Broadcasting

Co-operative

B65 - audience research

B65 + 66 - papal and Elton John tours

B66 - Victorian Symphony Orchestra

B66 + 67 - travel allowances - accountability

B67 + 68 - religious and rural program units

B68 - breakdown of the expenses and revenues of

each State orchestra

B68 + 69 - sponsorship of orchestras

B69 + 70 - "24 Hours" magazine

B69 - A.B.C. shops

B69 - taped radio programs

B70 - 'Special Projects'

B70 - data transmission

B70 - B-MAC encoding system

B70 + 71 - Aboriginal program unit

B71 - breakdown of staff

B71 - monetary input into Nth America vs South

East Asia

B71 - overview of Radio Australia's operations

B71 - transmitters for Radio Australia

B72 + 72 - importance of Radio Australia in North

America

B72 - radio transmitter in Darwin

82.

B72

B72 B72

B72 + 73

B73 B73

B73

B73

B73 + 74

- impact of reduction in Indonesian and

Chinese broadcasts - survey on Radio Australia listenership

- reduction in television appropriation for capital expenditure

- rationalisation of radio locations in Sydney - sales tax on equipment

- supposed A.B.C. bias during the election campaign

- Heather Ewart and the Press report of her reporting during the Federal election

- Mr John Newton's alleged pension of

$ 20,000

- order of programs for remainder of hearing

B74 B74 B74 + 78

B74, 75 + 76

B76

B76 B76, 77 + 78

B77 + 78

B78 B78

B78 + 79

B79

B79 B79

Broadcasting

- Deakin Offices - broadcasting policy - FM licenses - public broadcast stations - national broadcasting transmitter network

- AM conversion to FM in regional markets - Imparja in Alice Springs

- Darwin service - salaries in special broadcasting

- administrative expenses

- radio frequency management - paid inoperative staff

- launch of satellite

- life of satellite

83.

Telecom

B80 - travel receipts

B80 - overtime

B80 - working conditions

B80 - travel in excess of 100 miles

B80 - travel to head station

B80 - advertising budget

B80 - critical Press releases

Australia Post

B80 - international postal operations: remailing

Department of Transport and Communications

B80 Hobart Bridge, steel regions assistance and

Western Australian railway agreement programs

B81 + 82 ABRD

B81 Interstate Road Transport Charge Act 1985

B81 ATAC consideration of truck load limits

B82 Mooney Mooney Creek bridge

B82 Technical inspection of roadworks

B82 + 83 Rail accident at Burnie

B83 Mitsubishi - Valiant seat slide issue

B83 ADR proposal for motor-cycle noise limits

B83 Coastal surveillance

B83 - 94 Amann contract

B94 + 95 "Fortuna" court proceedings

B95 Staffing arrangements of the Inter-State

Commission

B95 + 96 Increase in travel and subsistence

- furniture removal

B96 Incidental and other expenditure

B96 + 97 Percentage of flying hours for search and

rescue tendered

B97 Research into locating light aircraft

84.

B97 B97

B97

B97 + 98

B98 + 99

B99 B99 B99

B99

B99 + 100

B100

B100

B100 + 101 B101 B101 + 102 B102

B102 B102

B102

B102 B102, 103 + 104

B104

B104

B104 + 105

BIOS BIOS

BIOS

BIOS + B106

Subsidy for commuter airlines

Aeronautical Information Service's publishing

costs

New airport tarmac and terminal at Brisbane Increases in expenditure Consultants fees

- dual runway proposal at Sydney Airport Westwind accident at north Botany Bay

Cost of accident at the north coast of N.S.W. Allocation of subsidies to outback airlines Grants to the Royal Federation of Aero Clubs

and the General Aviation Association

Grant to the Australian Ballooning

Association Australian Ultralight Federation

- licences Aerodrome local ownership plan

Duty-free shops

Adelaide Airport Canberra Airport Darwin Airport Perth Airport

Upgrading of residences in Northern WA. Commonwealth car-parking area at Canberra

airport Airport car-parking fines

Q.A.N.T.A.S.

- privatisation - return on capital

Australian Airlines Air Queensland

Departure Tax Office security system Abolition of the position of the former

Secretary of the Department of Aviation

Overtime payments

Running costs

85.

BIO 6

B106

B106 B106

B106 + 107 B107 B107

Hire and maintenance of indoor plants

Fees for staff to attend technical colleges

Uniform dress for officers

Refurbishment of executive offices

Advertising; film unit ADP equipment

Australian Airline's superannuation scheme

86.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

NOVEMBER 1987

87

. * -:ι> i

' - - ‘ - · ' · · ) - . ·.,

. \ , ■ -

" · - . . - ' .' - * i . : . · . r . . < · · . ■ .

' · ■ V ■ · .. ■ ■: · : ' " · · ·- "· - r ' :

. * " j ·

—

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Report to the Senate

Estimates Committee C presents its Report to the Senate

INTRODUCTION

1. On 22 September 1987, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1988, the Particulars of Certain

Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ending 30 June 1987, relating to the following

departments:

Finance

Treasury Primary Industries and Energy

2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has

received explanations of them from the Minister for Home Affairs (Senator the Hon. Robert Ray) and the Minister for Finance (Senator the Hon. Peter Walsh) and officers of the

departments and authorities concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings, Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee and a table of contents to those

Hansards are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No.1) 1987-88 and

Appropriation Bill (No.2) 1987-88.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the

following matters arising from its consideration of the

Estimates:

89.

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

Program Budgeting

The Committee has drawn the Senate's attention to the progress

made on the introduction of program budgeting by Commonwealth

Departments in its reports of October 1985 and 1986. The

Committee was again able to question officials of the Department

in some detail on the co-ordination and evaluation of program

budgeting by the Department and by other departments over the last year. The Committee draws attention to the Department's

evaluation of the effectiveness and value of the program

budgeting system, particularly through its Budget Development and Management Program, and in co-ordinating and assisting other

Departments in the introduction of program budgeting. This area

of the Department's activities will continue to be of

considerable importance in the future as it will be a number of years before comprehensive assessment of its worth can be made.

It is a matter on which the Department should continue to provide

detailed information to the Parliament.

The Committee believes it is important for the Parliament to continue careful examination of such matters as program

objectives, key performance indicators and actual program performance. In this regard, the Committee draws the attention of the Senate to comments made in the Hansard (p C8) of the

Committee's proceedings on present method of evaluation of other Departmental programs by the Department of Finance.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

Prices Surveillance Authority

During examination of the estimates of the Department of Treausry the Committee was advised, both at hearings and in additional

information, that the Prices Surveillance Authority (PSA) had

90.

used as one measure of its effectiveness savings which could be considered to have flowed to consumers as a result of its

activities. The PSA Chief Executive Officer told the Committee

that, in this regard, assessment of possible savings was only one of the measures of the PSA's effectiveness.

The Committee was interested to note this advice, but has reservations about the method by which such savings were calculated and whether such a measure was a sufficient measure of the effectiveness of the PSA activities. The Committee will be

particularly interested to see whether such a notional measure of effectiveness is used in future.

Australian Taxation Office

Estimates Committees have had occasion in the past to voice concern both at the large number of officers who attend Estimates

Committees hearings and at the level of seniority of the officers

who do attend.

The representation from Australian Taxation Office (ATO) at the Committee's hearing, was particularly unsatisfactory in the

latter regard. The officers from the ATO who attended the hearing with some exceptions, were not able to provide answers to the questions - some of which were simple questions on taxation administration - put by the Committee and had to take such

questions on notice.

The Committee points out that has not yet received written answers to the questions put to ATO officers which were

unanswered at the Committee's hearing on 20 October.

The Committee strongly believes that it is incumbent on departments and authorities to ensure that officers who do attend

Estimates Committee hearings are officers of sufficient seniority, experience and knowledge to assist the Committee. Estimates Committees, and the Parliament, have a right to expect

that at least one officer from the senior rank of departments and

91.

of authorities, (particularly one as important as the ATO) should be in attendance. The Committee believes that its decision to

alter the time of its hearings so as to make the Committee's

program more predictable was an opportunity for an ATO officers

of sufficient seniority to be in attendance.

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY

The Committee draws to the Senate's attention the fact that notwithstanding that the Committee completed its examination of

the Department's estimates on 20 October, it has not received

answers to questions taken on notice by the Department at the

hearing.

The Committee finds this situation completely unsatisfactory.

The delay has considerably hampered the Committee in considering

the Department's estimates and reporting on them.

GENERAL

Scheduling of Attendance by Departments

The Committee was concerned at the commencement of its hearings

to program departments and authorities in such a way that large numbers of officers were not kept waiting for long periods of

time in anticipation of the Committee's examination of estimates. This is a matter to which attention has been drawn by Estimates

Committees in the past, particularly by Estimates Committee D in its October 1986 report. The Committee found that it was able to

arrange a timetable for the second scheduled day of hearing and to provide departments with a definite time at which officers

would be required to appear before the Committee. Nominating specific time periods during which a department's estimates will

be examined is, in the Committee's view, an important means by

which Estimates Committees' hearings can be streamlined.

Departmental Witnesses

The Committee has commented on the unsatisfactory experience it had in examining the estimates of the Australian Taxation Office.

The problem identified by the Committee, which has been commented on by other Estimates Committees in the past, was that the

officers who attended the Committee's hearings were unable to provide the Committee with answers to questions apparently because they were not in a position, either through lack of

knowledge or apparent lack of seniority, to answer the

Committee's questions. The Committee again draws attention to this situation, and notes that both the Department of Finance and

the Department of the Treasury sent at least one officer at Deputy Secretary level to the hearings when those Departments' estimates were under consideration.

Program Budgeting

The Committee has noted in its report that the Department of Finance, as the Department responsible for co-ordinating the introduction of program budgeting for all departments, was able to provide the Committee with information on the continued

development of program budgeting.

The Committee expects that there will be continual and further

evaluation of program statements and other information by all Estimates Committees with a view to increasing Parliament's knowledge of the method of evaluating performances and ensuring that program performance measures for all departments and

authorities are accurate and continue to provide the information

required by the Parliament.

Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI)

The Committee asked each department and authority that appeared before it to provide up to date information on measures that were being employed to overcome RSI problems. The Committee is pleased

93.

to report that the incidence of RSI appears to be decreasing in

those departments and authorities examined and applauds the

measures, such as exercise programs and health assessment, that

have been introduced over the last several years.

Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Program

The Committee also asked each department and authority to provide

it with details of the effectiveness of achievements of EEO

program in each. The Committee is yet to be provided with the

answers to these questions from the Australian Taxation Office

and the Department of Primary Industry and Energy, but notes that

there has apparently been measurable achievement of EEO program aims. The Committee notes, however, that it should be a matter of

concern to the Parliament should there by any reduction in the

achievement of EEO aims—and believes that Estimates- Committees should continue to monitor EEO changes in departments and authorities.

Conclusion

The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given

by the Minister for Home Affairs (Senator the Hon. Robert Ray)

and the Minister for Finance (Senator the Hon. Peter Walsh) and the officers of the various departments and authorities who appeared before it.

The co-operation by all Committee members in dealing with the estimates considered by the Committee, and their flexibility in

re-arranging the Committee's timetable noticeably assisted completion of the Committee's work.

November 1987

Rosemary Crowley

Chairperson

94.

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Tuesday, 6 October 1987 Tuesday, 20 October 1987 Wednesday, 4 November 1987

95.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 1

Tuesday, 6 October 1987

1. MEETING: The committee met in private session at 4.18 pm in Senate Committee Room No. 6.

2. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Committee Secretary then called for nominations for Chairperson. Senator Crowley was nominated by Senator Collins. There being no other nominations, Senator

Crowley was elected.

Senator Crowley then took the Chair.

3. AUTHORISATION TO PUBLISH DOCUMENTS: On the motion of Senator

Crowley the Committee resolved that:

The Committee authorises the publication of all docum­ ents presented to it in the course of its hearings, and authorises the publication of written replies and other documents which may be forwarded to it after hearings have been completed.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.25 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Crowley (Chairperson), Archer, Collins,

Devlin, McGauran and Parer.

CONFIRMED:

(Rosemary Crowley) Chairperson

97.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO 2

Tuesday, 6 October 1987

1. MEETING: The committee met at 4.33 pm in Senate Committee Room No. 6. The Chairperson, Senator Crowley, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1988 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987 -DEPARMENT OF FINANCE.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. R. Ray, Minister representing the Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Finance

Mr J.L. Carroll

Dr H.N. Johnston

Mr D. Shand

Mr M . Kennedy

Deputy Secretary

First Assistant Secretary General Expenditure Division

First Assistant Secretary

Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Assistant Secretary

Accounting Policy Branch

98.

Mr I . McPhee Assistant Secretary

Public Administration and Accounting Development Branch

Mr M. Woolley First Assistant Secretary Regional and Accounting Operations

Division

Mr N. McKenna Assistant Secretary

Accounting Operations Branch

Mr A. Maclean Assistant Secretary

ADP Branch

Mr C . Orr Assistant Secretary

Commonwealth Superannuation Branch

Ms S . Fenwick Assistant Secretary

Retirement Benefits Branch

Mr G . Ford Chief Finance Officer

Transport and Industry Division

Mr J.V. Galloway Assistant Secretary Resource Policies and Management

Branch

Mr J. Walsh Director

Finance and General Section

Mr T . Wilson Senior Finance Officer

Financial Management and Accounting

Policy Division

Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office

Mr R.D. McKillop Assistant Commissioner Resources Management

99.

Mr G.P. Hayes Assistant Commissioner Superannuation and DFRDB Adminis­

tration

Mr K.J. McCullogh Director Finance, Planning and Review

Mr R.R. Jackson Assistant Director Planning and Financial Management

Australian Audit Office

Mr D.J. Hill Deputy Auditor-General

Mr C.M. McPherson Acting First Assistant Auditor-General Corporate Management Division

Mr A.P. Giugni Acting Assistant Auditor-General Planning and Resource Management

Branch

Mr D.C. McKean Director

Management Section

Mr F.P. Campbell Finance Officer Management Section

The Chairperson called on for consideration the following sub-programs: 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 5.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3. Together

the expenditure in these programs included all the partic­

ulars of proposed expenditure relating to the Department that were referred to the Committee.

The Committee considered the expenditure by the Department

under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

100.

ΓThe Committee concluded its consideration, with respect to the Department of Finance, of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1988 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance, subject to an undertaking by the Minis­ter and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1988 AND EXPENDITUREUNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987 -DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. P. Walsh, Minister represent­ing the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers:Department of the TreasuryDr C.I. Higgins Deputy Secretary (Economic)Mr B.J. Gleeson Assistant Secretary Coordination and Management BranchMr F.G.H. Pooley First Assistant Secretary Finance and Investment DivisionMr J. Barr Chief Finance OfficerFinance and Investment DivisionMr J.P. Anderson Assistant Secretary- Taxation Policy DivisionMr P. Bek Acting Chief Finance Officer Capital Markets DivisionMr R. Kerr Assistant Secretary Structural Policy Division101.

Mr P. Sutherland Chief Finance Officer Fiscal Policy Division

Mr R . Freney Assistant Secretary

Capital Markets Division

Mr G . Conran Acting Superintendent

Royal Australian Mint

Mr N. Stuparich Assistant Secretary Occupational Superannuation Commissioner - Interim Group

Mr J. Jones Chief Executive Officer

Prices Surveillance Authority

Mr D. Holmesby Director

Financial Administration Section Coordination and Management Branch

Mrs P . Bridge Assistant Director

Financial Administration Section Coordination and Management Branch

Mr E. Wojoik Assistant Director

Financial Administration Section Coordination and Management Branch

Mr P. Webb Assistant Finance Officer

Financial Administration Section Coordination and Management Branch

Mr A. Henderson Assistant Secretary State and Local Government Finance Branch

102.

Australian Bureau of Statistics

Mr R.W. Edwards First Assistant Statistician Coordination and Management Division

Mr C .J . Dent Assistant Statistician

Resource Management Branch

Mr L.C. Clements Assistant Statistician Prices Branch

Mr J. Cornish Assistant Statistician Population Census and Demography Branch

Mr B.H. Crook Assistant Statistician

Technology Planning Branch

Mr R . Green Assistant Statistician

Manufacturing and Distribution Branch

Mr D. Leaver Assistant Statistician

Statistical Services Branch

Ms P. Guy Acting Director

Resource Management and Systems

Section

Mr J. Nicholson Acting Senior Inspector Finance Management Subsection

Industries Assistance Commission

Dr M. Parker Acting Head of Office

103.

Acting Assistant Commissioner Corporate Services Branch

Chief Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

Senior Finance Officer Financial Management and Accounting Policy Division

The Chairperson called on for consideration the following

sub-programs: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 3.1, 3.2, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3.

The Committee considered the expenditure by the Department under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.34 pm and agreed to meet again at 3.30 pm on Tuesday, 20 October 1987.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Crowley (Chairperson), Archer, Collins, Devlin, McGauran and Parer.

Senators Michael Baume, Calvert, Chaney, Stone and Walters also attended.

CONFIRMED:

(Rosemary Crowley)

Chairperson

Mr A. Cahill

Department of Finance

Mr P . Richardson

Mr T. Wilson

104.

THE SENATE

Γ

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO 3

Tuesday, 20 October 1987

1. MEETING: The committee met at 8.05 pm in the Senate Chamber.

The Chairperson, Senator Crowley, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1988 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987 -DEPARMENT OF THE TREASURY.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. P. Walsh, Minister represent­ ing the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers:

Australian Taxation Office

Mr J . Crotty Senior Assistant Commissioner Policy and Legislation

Mr R. McDonald Assistant Commissioner Corporate Management Support

Mr J . Daly Senior Assistant Commissioner

Child Support

Ms B . Benson Assistant Commissioner, Services

Mr C . Bowdler Executive Officer

Human and Financial Resources

105.

Mr K . Booth Director, Financial Resources

Mr R. Speldewinde Assistant Director, Human Resources

Department of Finance

Mr P. Richardson Chief Finance Officer Financial and Administrative Estimates

Section

The Committee resumed its consideration of the proposed

expenditure by the Department of the Treasury. The Chairper­ son called on for consideration the following sub-programs:

6.1, 6.2, 6.3 and 6.4. The expenditure in these sub-programs, together with the sub-programs considered at the previous

meeting of the Committee, included all the particulars of proposed expenditure relating to the Department that were referred to the Committee.

The Committee considered the expenditure by the Department under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration, with respect to the Department of the Treasury, of the Particulars of Propos­ ed Expenditure 1988 and Expenditure under the Advance to the

Minister for Finance, subject to an undertaking by the Minis­ ter and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1988 AND EXPENDITURE

UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987 -DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY.

5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. P. Walsh, Minister represent­ ing the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, accompan­ ied by the following officers:

106.

Department

Mr D.

Mr G.

Mr J.

Mr P.

Mr J.

Ms F.

Mr D .

Dr A.

Mr L.

Mr J .

Mr P.

Mr B.

of Primary Industries and Energy

J. Ives

C. Gorrie

F . Landos

T. Core

R . Rae

M. Cassidy

Wesney

C. Christie

B . Devin

C. Starkey

Ryan

Meere

Deputy Secretary

Acting First Assistant Secretary Corporate Services and Co-ordination

Division

Assistant Secretary Corporate Resources Branch

First Assistant Secretary Policy Development Division

First Assistant Secretary Livestock and Pastoral Division

First Assistant Secretary Crops Division

Assistant Secretary Northern Fisheries Branch

First Assistant Secretary Natural Resources Management Division

Assistant Secretary Water Research and Programs Branch

First Assistant Secretary

Petroleum Division

First Assistant Secretary

Coal and Nuclear Division

Principal Adviser Mineral Commodities Division

107.

Mr J. C. Kerr Assistant Secretary

Minerals A Branch

Mr W. G. McGregor First Assistant Secretary Energy Programs Division

Mr R. Hopkins Assistant Secretary

Research Programs and Electricity

Bureau of Rural Science

Dr G. H. Rothschild Director

Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics

Dr R. A. Bain Director

Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics

Prof R. W. R. Rutland Director

Mr L. C. Ranford First Assistant Director Resource Assessment Division

Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service

Mr P. H. Langhorne Director

The Pipeline Authority

Mr T. R. Baker Executive Member

Mr G. R. Jones

The Joint Coal Board

Finance Manager

Mr R . Spratt General Manager

Mr L. G. O'Brien Chief Finance Officer

108.

Department of Finance

Mr G. Hope Chief Finance Officer

Transport and Industry Division

Mr C. Lloyd Senior Finance Officer

Transport and Industry Division

The Chairperson called on for consideration the following sub-programs: 1.1, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.4, 3.1, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, 5.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4, 9.5, 9.6, 10.1, and 10.2. Together the expenditure in

these programs included all. the particulars of proposed expenditure relating to the Department that were referred to the Committee.

The Committee considered the expenditure by the Department under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration, with respect to the Department of Primary Industries and Energy, of the Part­ iculars of Proposed Expenditure 1988 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance, subject to an under­ taking by the Minister and officers to provide additional

information to the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.05 pm.

109.

7. ATTENDANCES Senators Crowley (Chairperson), Archer, Collins, Devlin, McGauran and Parer.

Senators Michael Baume, Boswell, Brownhill and Stone attended.

CONFIRMED:

(Rosemary Crowley) Chairperson

110.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 4

Wednesday, 4 November 1987

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 1.50 pm in Senate Committee Room No. 5. The Chairperson, Senator

Rosemary Crowley, took the chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on

Tuesday, 6 October 1987 (meetings nos. 1 and 2) Tuesday, 20 October 1987 (meeting no. 3)

were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chair­

person's draft Report to the Senate.

Resolved: On the motion of Senator Archer, that the Report be

adopted.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.55 pm.

111.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Crowley (Chairperson),Archer and

Collins.

Apologies were recieved from Senators Devlin, McGauran and Parer.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

(Rosemary Crowley) CHAIRPERSON

112.

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR HANSARD OF HEARINGS

Tuesday, 6 October.1987 Tuesday, 20 October 1987

113.

A

'■!+

• ' ' ' > · v :

■

SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR HANSARD OF HEARINGS

Tuesday, 6 October 1987

Subject Page

Chairperson's opening statement 1-2

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

Program Budgeting - general progress with 2-3

- cost/benefits of 3

- DoF input to other Departments' "program budgets 3 - use of by Ministers, Cabinet, ERC 3-4

Budget Management System - access by outside users 4-5 Charging other Departments for goods, services - cost effectiveness 5

- items currently charged for, expansion 5-6

Utility of Budget documents - monitoring public comment 6 Administrative expenses - reasons for increases 6-7

Efficiency dividends - how funds saved are used 7

Efficiency scrutiny - who initiates, efficiency scrutiny unit, DoF involvement 7-8

Task Force on Fraud - DoF involvement, savings and

efficiency dividend 8

Financial Management Improvement Training - extra cost, source of transferred funds 8-9

Cash management practices - savings due to changes 9

Reporting standards - number of agencies complying 9-10

Payment of accounts - delays 10

Payment overseas to pensioners 10

DoF use of Deakin Offices? 10-11

RSI staff supplementation - loss of 11

RSI - current position 11

Superannuation - portability arrangements 11-12

115.

Number of superannuation schemes operated, reason for separate schemes 12

Superannuation - gap between funding and reguirement 12-13

Invalidity retirements compared to age retirements 13 Parliamentary superannuation scheme - increase in estimate 13

Act of grace payments - cost of administration 13-14

Natural disaster relief - basis of estimate 14

Canberra Commercial Development Authority - loans 14

Grants to trade unions - question on notice 14

Phones in private residences - Audit Office criticism 14-15

Travel by officers - Audit Office criticism 15

Coastal surveillance committee - DoF participation 15 RSI - incidence, steps to reduce, effectiveness of

particular steps, reduction in cost of steps 15-16

Efficiency scrutiny - mapping/surveying, printing 16 Equal employment opportunity programs 16-17

Australian Audit Office

Attempts by Ministers/Departments to influence? 17

Location of regional offices 17

Estimate for independent auditor for AAO 17

Number of officers attending Estimates Committee hearing 17-18

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

Program Budgeting - impact, cost/benefit 19

Currency fluctuations - provision for 19

Cover against exchange rate fluctuations 19

Losses due to currency devaluation 19

Reason why Commonwealth does not hedge 19-20

Use of currency swaps 20

Conversion of denomination of debt to A$ 20-21

International financial institutions share increase 20-21 Staff responsible for advising on foreign borrowings 21 Prices Surveillance Authority - grants to consumer

and pensioner organisations 21-22

Payments in relation to swap agreements 22

116.

Remote area tax zones - anomalies 22-23

Refund of sales tax to Telecom 23

Tax reform advertising campaign 23-24

Australian Taxation Research Foundation - activities, value to the Treasury 24-25

Facilitation of worthwhile foreign investment 25

Sub-program 2.1 - increase in salaries and administrative expenses 26

S .23F-type super funds - proposed restrictions on types of investments 26

Occupational superannuation legislation - delay 26-27 Mint - tenders for $2 coin 27

- use of Chilean copper 27

Profit on coins compared with notes 27-28

Mint seeking work from other countries 28

"negative special grants" 28

Sinking fund - increase in S.Australian contribution 28 - treatment as an offset to outlays 28-29

- source of funds for contribution 29

Staff managing foreign debt - staff profile, responsibilities, activities, changes since

floating of $ 29-30

Source of borrowings to be authorised by Loans Bill 30

Reserve Bank profit due to currency adjustments 30

Staff health management 30-31

RSI - incidence, steps to reduce, effectiveness of particular steps 31-32

Equal employment opportunity programs 32

- appointment on merit 32

Grants to trade unions - question on notice 32-33

Reserve Bank profit due to currency adjustments 33

FBT - cost, cashing out of benefits 33

Invalidity retirements compared to age retirements 33

Prices Surveillance Authority

Grants to consumer and pensioner organisations - basis 33-34

117.

Purpose served by PSA Improving general understanding of causes of price

movements

Consumer equivalent of price reductions secured - source, meaning, validity of figure Allowance for discounts

Larger businesses passing prices to small business Derivation of figure for savings to consumers Ambit claims for price increases

Number of objections to price increases, inquiries Beer prices

Cost to private sector of PSA activities

34-35

35- 36

36

36- 37

37 37 |

37- 38

38

38

Australian Bureau of Statistics

Charging for ABS products 38

Proportion going to public, private sectors 38

State/local governments free receipt - reasons 39

Fall in publications issued as a result of charging 39

Frequency of revision of range of publications 39

On-line access - range of information available 39

- expected revenue 39

RSI, EEO, age/invalidity retirements - questions on notice 39

Industries Assistance Commission

Staff numbers decline 39-40

RSI, EEO, age/invalidity retirements - questions on notice 40

118.

Tuesday, 20 October 1987

Australian Taxation Office

Arrangements for hearing 41-42

CGT - impact on renewal of exploration/mining tenements 42 - complexity 42

- plans to simplify record-keeping requirements 42 Self-assessment - penalties for honest mistakes 42-43 Penalties - Commissioner failing to follow court guidelines 43 Time-limit for Commissioner to determine objections 43 CGT - impact on N. Territory pastoral lease conversions 43

- capital loss refunds 43

- impact of fall in sharemarket prices 43-44

Desk audits - contact taxpayer, not taxpayer's agent 44 Failure of ATO staff to follow internal guidelines 44

Dividend imputation - dividends received from overseas 44 Service disability pensions - whether taxable 44-45

Treasury - answer to questions put at 6 October hearing 45 "approved price adjustment" - explanation of 45

FBT - payments by on-Budget agencies 45-46

- cost of administration of these payments 46

- rationale for these payments 46

Estimates Committees - cost of 46

- adequacy of departmental representation at 46

Tax returns sent back to taxpayers for second signature 47 Child support function - likely costs/benefits 47

RSI - litigation/supplementation 48

- number of new and continuing cases 48

EEO - age/invalidity retirements 48

Time-limit for Commissioner to determine objections 48

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY

Minister's opening statement 49

Rural counselling - shortfall in expenditure 50

Assistance and development policy - review 50

119.

Agricultural chemicals - patents policy 50

Rural adjustment scheme - inquiry 50

- requests for Part C payments 50

- shortfall in expenditure 50

Rural research funds - commitment to increase contribution 50-51

- grants 51

Wool industry research fund - shortfall in contribution 51 Proposed horticultural bodies - questions on notice 51-52

Proposed amalgamation of fruit canners 52

Proposed horticultural bodies - incorporation of existing

bodies,new bodies 52-53

- distribution of funds, of overheads 53

Fishing industry research - shortfall in spending 53

Coastal surveillance - costs borne by, role of, each

Department involved 53-54

- Fisheries Service representation in contract negotiations 54

Fishing boat licence levy 55

Fisheries Service - increase in costs since established, reasons, new programs 55

Coal sub-program - objectives, activities, staff 55-56 Joint Coal Board - relationship to miners' pension funds 56-57 International Tin Council 57-58

Coal industry - draft paper on industrial relations 58-59 Aust. Water Research Advisory Council - members, projects 59

- Professor Wade's project proposal 59

National soil conservation - funding needed 59-60

Murray-Darling salinity/drainage works 60

Telecom VNG service - impact of closure 60

Ratio of salaries to administrative expenses 60-61

Oil - future requirements/production 61

Pipeline Authority - borrowings 61

NERDDP - decline in funding 61

Coal research funds - disposal of surplus 61-62

Energy management program - cost, net savings 62

Electricity industry program - effects 62

120.

Payment to N . Territory in lieu of uranium royalties 62 - any equivalent to Queensland 62

Legal claims - exposure to radiation 62

Ratio of salaries to administrative expenses 62-63

Bureau of Agricultural Economics - staff reductions 63 Quarantine staff numbers, cuts 63

- disinfection of arriving aircraft 63

- consultations 63-64

Organochlorine residue problem 64

Testing for residues - use of meat inspectors, on-site

testing 64-65

Meat inspectors - overtime, employment conditions 65

Residue testing - correlating sample with carcass, offal 65 Coastal surveillance - quarantine, role of interested

Departments, who pays costs 65-66

Animal Health Lab at Geelong - security procedures 66-67 Bureau of Rural Science - research into El Nino 67

Brucellosis testing - cost, staff, winding down 67

Questions on notice - quarantine; horticulture; administration costs; groundwater 67-68

Resource assessment - Federal/State co-ordination 68 Ratio of salaries to administrative expenses 68

121.

ESTIMATES

REPORT TO

COMMITTEE D

THE SENATE

November 1 9 8 7

123

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee D presents its Report to the Senate.

1. On 22 September 1987 the Senate referred to the Committee I for examination and report the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1988, the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the

Year ending 30 June 1988 and the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1987 relating to the following Departments:

Employment, Education and Training Community Services and Health Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs Veterans' Affairs

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates for the year ended 3 0 June 1988 and the Advance to the Minister for Finance, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes and has received evidence from the Special Minister for State (Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan), the Minister for Local Government

(Senator the Honourable Margaret Reynolds) and officers of the Departments and authorities concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No.1) 1987-88 and Appropriation Bill (No.2) 1987-88. Further written explanations

furnished by Departments will be presented separately.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters which arose during consideration of the Estimates:

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE:

For a number of years it has been the practice of members and non-members of Committees to give "advance" notice to Departments of possible lines of questioning that Senators may wish to explore during hearings. This practice has further developed whereby Senators have been submitting questions to Departments prior to the

hearings and expecting a reply to be tabled when the examination of that particular Department is in progress. During the consideration of the Estimates, when

asking questions, members of the Committee found it confusing to be told by officials that they had already supplied written answers to those questions. Written answers had been tabled at the commencement of the

examination of the Departments involved.

125.

The Committee is concerned that this practice is being used by Senators to obtain information without the need to attend the meetings of the Committee. The Committee recommends that the following be referred to the Procedure Committee for consideration:

The practice of Senators of referring written questions to Departments prior to the hearings of Estimates Committees.

EXPLANATORY NOTES:

The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the new format of the Explanatory Notes as designed by the Department of Finance. The Committee considers that the additional information contained in the Notes is useful for Senators in understanding the way in which Departments operate under program budgeting.

The Committee is concerned, however, that the present layout of the Notes is confusing and difficult to use effectively.The information required is found in two separate sections of the document with no

cross-referencing provided. The Committee suggests that the Department of Finance review the setting out of the Notes to make them easier for Senators to use during Committee hearings.

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING:

Women's Employment — Sub-program 5.2: During the Committee's examination of the Department a series of questions was asked in relation to sub-program 5.2 which dealt with equal opportunity

for women in employment. The Department was asked to comment on the reduction in staff years allocated to the sub-program while the functions to be undertaken were being increased.

The answers given by the Departmental Officers were, in the Committee's opinion, insufficient and failed to explain adequately the reasons for the reduction in staff years in this sub-program.

The Committee anticipates that in the hearings for the Additional Estimates the Department will have resolved the adequacy of staffing resources and will be able to answer the questions concerning this sub­ program put by members of the Committee.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance given by the Ministers and the officers of the Departments concerned.

o i ( ; ( , f c..

Mai Colston (Chairman)

5 November 1987

126.

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

127.

r

%

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 1

THURSDAY, 8 OCTOBER 1987

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 2.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The Secretary took the Chair.

2. RESOLUTIONS OF THE SENATE: The Secretary reported the Resolution of the Senate of 22 September 1987 relating to the appointment of the Committee and the referral of Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1987-88 and Advance

for the Minister for Finance for the year ended 1987. The Secreatry also reported the Resolution of 24 September 1987 relating to the appointment of members of the Committee.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for the position of Chairman. Senator Sheil proposed Senator Colston to be Chairman. There being no other nomination, Senator Colston was declared elected and took the Chair.

4. AUTHORISATION TO PUBLISH DOCUMENTS: On the motion of Senator Sheil the following motion was agreed to: The Committee authorises the publication of all documents presented to it in the course of its

hearings, and authorises the publication of written replies and other documents which may be forwarded to it after the hearings have been completed.

5. ORDER OF DEPARTMENTS: On the motion of Senator Zakharov the order of considering the Departments would be as follows:

1. Department of Employment, Education and Training 2. Department of Community Services and Health 3. Department of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs

4. Department of Veterans' Affairs.

6. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in Public Session at 2.08 p.m.

7. The Chairman declared the meeting open, reported the Resolutions of the Senate dated 22 and 24 September, and made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Estimates.

129.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 — DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING:

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan, Special Minister for State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Employment, Education and Training -­ Mr J . Rowdier, Deputy Secretary Mr P. Hickey, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr K. Power, First Assistant Secreatry, Management Division Mr A. Kaspura, First Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination Division Mr G. Lampe, First Assistant Secretary, Community and 1 Aboriginal Programs Mr K. O'Shea, First Assistant Secretary, Client Services Division Mr B. Milligan, First Assistant Secretary, Adjustment and Income Support Division Mr J. McCarthy, Assistant Secretary, Income Support and Allowances Branch Mr M. Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Skills Training 1 Branch Mr D. Brewster, Assistant Secretary, TAPE Policy and Programs Branch Mr R. Potheringham, Assistant Secretary, Traineeships Policy Branch Mr P. Grant, First Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Education Division Dr H. Preston, Assistant Secretary, Research Grants Branch Mr I. Crebbin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Resource Planning Branch Ms D. Mildren, First Assistant Secretary, Schools Division Mr D. Buckingham, First Assistant Secretary,

International Division Mr M. Butlin, First Assistant Secretary, Economic Division Mr A. Abrahart, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Division Ms M. Cane, Assistant Secretary, Community Programs Branch Mr. R. McNamara, First Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Corporate Services Divisions, Commonwealth Schools Commission Ms D. Suggett, Assistant Director, Curriculum Development Branch, Commonwealth Schools Commission Ms N. Mooney, Chief Executive Officer, Corporate Services Division, Commonwealth Schools Division Mr J. Mularvey, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission Dr J. Grant, Acting First Assistant Commissioner, Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission

130.

Professor A.D. Barton, Treasurer, Australian National University Mr J. Brayshaw, Budget Officer, Australian National University Mr D. Crockett, Accountant, Australian Maritime College Mr D. Power, Assistant Secretary, Resources Management

Branch Mr R. Hancock, Director, Human Resources Budgeting Section, Resources Management Branch

Mr B. Coulter, Director, Administrative Resources, Resources Management Branch Mr J. Bollard, Director, Program Resources, Resources

Management Branch Mr C. Wood, Secretary, Australian Council of Employment and Training

Department of Finance — Ms B.J. Matijevic, Chief Finance Officer, Education Section Dr W.K. Jarvie, Chief Finance Officer, Employment and Training Section Mr G.J. Kazs, Chief Finance Officer, Student Assistant

and Employment Services Section

The Chairman called on the following Programs of Proposed Expenditure for consideration by the Committee: Program 1 - Training Program 2 - Job Creation and Employment Assistance

Program 3 - Community Based, Aboriginals and Youth Affairs Program 4 - Placement/Delivery and Information Services Program 5 - Economic and Labour Market Advising Program 6 - Tertiary Education Policy and Funding Program 7 - Schools Funding and Policy Program 8 - Student Assistance Program 9 - International Education Program 10 - Assessment and Development Program 11 - Corporate Services

Together the expenditure in these Programs comprised the following: Divisions 270-276 (Document A) Divisions 848-850, 852 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Employment, Education and Training, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

131.

9. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 — DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES AND HEALTH:

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan, Special Minister for State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Community Services and Health — Mr G. Rees, Deputy Secretary Dr D. de Souza, Chief Commonwealth Medical Officer Mr A. Bansemer, Deputy Secretary Mr M. Roche, First Assistant Secretary Mr T. Slater, First Assistant Secretary, Health Advancement Mr B. Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Finances and Services Mr I. McNeil, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budget Mr P.Hill, Assistant Secretary, Medical Benefits Mr G. James, Assistant Secretary, Drugs of Dependence Mr M. Clarke, First Assistant Secretary, Australia Card Secretariat Dr J. Deeble, First Assistant Secretary, Health Benefits Mr A. Mackay, Assistant Secretary, Financial Strategies Mr M. Johnstone, Assistant Secretary, Pharmaceutical Benefits Dr A. Proudfoot, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Therapeutics . Mr P. Pflaum, First Assistant Secretary, Health Research and Services Dr A. Browning, Assistant Secretary, Food and

Environment Mr A. Kingdon, Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation Dr M. Murnane, First Assistant Secretary, Community Programs

Mr W. Jackson, Assistant Secretary, HACC Mr D. Limbrick, Director, Child Care Mr B. Egan, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Services Mr I. Lindenmayer, First Assistant Secretary, Hospitals and Residential Programs Mr D. Sinclair, Assistant Secretary, Hospitals and

Insurance Mr K. Riordan, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Mr P. Edmonds, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Information Services

Australian Institute of Health-­

Dr L. Smith, Acting Director Mr D. Kentwell, Executive Officer

Health Insurance Commission —

Mr C. Wilcox, General Manager Mr M. Parsons, Assistant General Manager, Claims and Memebership Division Mr K. Hazell, Assistant General Manager, Investigations Division

132.

Mr A. Coates, Assistant General Manager, Systems Division Mr J. Bentley, Assistant General Manager, Personnel Division

Mr M. Murray, Assistant General Manager, Finance Division

Department of Finance — Mr M. Rosser, Finance Officer, Social Security Division Mr B. Page, Senior Finance Officer, Community Services Section

The Chairman called on for consideration the following programs: Program 1 — Health Advancement Program 2 — Australia Card

Program 3 — Health Care Access Program 4 — Therapeutic Goods Program 5 — Research Program 6 — People in Crisis

Program 7 — People with Disabilities who need Additional Assistance Program 8 — Families with Children Program 9 — Housing Program 10 -- Aged People who need Residential Care

Program 11 — People who need support in the Community Program 12 — Corporate Management and Support Services

And the Committee considering Program 2 — Australia Card —

10. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 p.m.

11. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Peter Baume, Giles, Shell, Walters and Zakharov.

Senators Calvert, Harradine, Patterson, Stone and Teague also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

iit i ( L A--»

Mai Colston (Chairman)

133.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 2

THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER 1987

1. PUBLIC MEETING: At 11.58 a.m. the Committee met in Public Session. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. The Committee resumed consideration from 8 October 1987 of the Department of Community Services and Health.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 — DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES AND HEALTH

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Susan Ryan, Special Minister for State, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Community Services and Health — Mr G. Rees, Deputy Secretary Dr D. de Souza, Chief Commonwealth Medical Officer Mr A. Bansemer, Deputy Secretary Mr M. Roche, First Assistant Secretary Mr T. Slater, First Assistant Secretary, Health Advancement Mr B. Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Finances and Services Mr I. McNeil, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budget Mr M. Clarke, First Assistant Secretary, Australia Card Secretariat Dr J. Deeble, First Assistant Secretary, Health Benefits Mr A. Mackay, Assistant Secretary, Financial Strategies Mr M. Johnstone, Assistant Secretary, Pharmaceutical Benefits Dr A. Proudfoot, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Therapeutics Mr P. Pflaum, First Assistant Secretary, Health Research and Services Dr G. Murphy, Assistant Director, Food and Environment Dr P. Gray, Director Research and Secretariart Mr W. Jackson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Community Programs Ms J. Halton, Director HACC Mr D. Limbrick, Director, Child Care Dr R. Madden, First Assistant Secretary, Disability Programs .

Mr G. Hine, Acting Assistant Secretary, Strategic Planning Mr B. Egan, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Services Mr I. Lindenmayer, First Assistant Secretary, Hospitals and Residential Programs

134.

Mr D . Sinclair, Assistant Secretary, Hospitals and Insurance Mr K. Riordan, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Mr P. Edmonds, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Information Services Mr N. Thelander, Assistant Secretary, Technical Support Mr M. Johnson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Mr A. Todd, Director, Program Management, Disability

Programs

Australian Institute of Health—

Mr R. Harvey, Acting Director Mr D. Kentwell, Executive Officer

Health Insurance Commission — „

Mr K. Hazell, Acting General Manager Mr M. Parsons, Assistant General Manager, Claims and Memebership Division Mr A. Coates, Assistant General Manager, Systems

Division Mr M. Murray, Assistant General Manager, Finance Division

Department of Finance — Mr M. Rosser, Finance Officer, Social Security Division Mr B. Page, Senior Finance Officer, Community Services Section Ms C . Edmondson, Senior Finance Officer, Health Section

Consideration Program Program Program Program Program Program

Program Program Program Program Program

resumed on the following Programs: 2 -- Australia Card 3 -- Health Care Access 4 -- Therapeutic Goods

5 -- Research 6 — People in Crisis 7 — People with Disabilities who need Additional Assistance

8 -- Families with Children 9 — Housing 10 — Aged People who need Residential Care 11 -- People who need support in the Community

12 — Corporate Management and Support Services

Together the expenditure in these Programs comprised the following: Divisions 200-207 (Document A) Divisions 830-832 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Community Services and Health, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

135.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE — DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS:

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Margaret Reynolds, Minister for Local Government, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs—

Mr A. Coward, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr P. Judd, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Visitor Entry and Citizenship Division Mr I. Simmington, First Assistant Secretary, Migration Division Mr A. Struik, First Assistant Secretary, Ethnic Affairs Division Mr M. Gallagher, First Assistant Secretary, Local Government and Regional Development Division Mr V. McMahon, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Management Division Mr B. Strangio, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch Mr M. Kennedy, Acting Director, Resources Section, Resource Management Branch

Department of Finance — Mr P. Willis, Senior Finance Officer, Immigration and Industrial Relations Branch

The Chairman called on the following Programs of Proposed Expenditure for consideration by the Committee: Program 1 -- Migration Program 2 -- Visitor Entry

Program 3 — Ethnic Affairs Program 4 -- Corporate Services Program 5 -- Citizenship Program 6 — Local Government and Regional Development

Together the expenditure in these Programs comprised the following: Divisions 360-361 (Document A) Divisions 902-904 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.01 p.m.

136.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Peter Baume, Giles, Sheil, Walters and Zakharov.

Senator Harradine also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

/· ' ‘

/ f l : ■ ( ( L 1 1 ;

Mai Colston (Chairman)

137.

THE SENATE

THURSDAY, 29 OCTOBER 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 3

1. PUBLIC MEETING: At 8.00 p.m. the Committee met in Public Session. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE — DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS:

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Honourable Margaret Reynolds, Minister for Local Government, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Veterans' Affairs —

Mr J. Muir, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr E . David, Acting General Manager, Defence Service Homes Corporation Mr G. O'Connor, Acting First Assistant Secretary

(Benefits) Mr A. Edgar, Assistant Secretary (Community Health) Mr. R. Somes, First Assistant Secretary (Health Services Planning) Mr K. Fredericks, Acting First Assistant Secretary

(Systems) Mr E. Attridge, First Assistant Secretary (Legal) Mr. P. Taylor, First Assistant Secretary (Management Services) Mr M. Letts, First Assistant Secretary (Special Projects and Co-ordination) Dr A. Gumming Thom, Assistant Chief Director (Medical

Services) Dr G. Brooks, Assistant Secretary (Pharmaceutical) Mr P. Watson, Assistant Secretary (Resources) Mr A. Clarke, Director (Office of Australian War Graves) Mr S. Skehill, Principal Member, Veterans' Review Board Mr F. Woodhouse, Principal Registrar, Veterans' Review Board Mr K. Pearson, Director, Australian War Memorial Mr J. Cosgrove, Administrator, Australian War Memorial

138.

Department of Finance -­ Ms J. Johnman, Chief Finance Officer, Social Security Division Ms K. Flanagan, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security Division Ms K. Woods, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security Division

The Chairman called on the following Programs of Proposed Expenditure for consideration by the Committee: Program 1 — Benefits Program 2 -- Health

Program 3 -- War Graves Program 4 — Corporate Services Program 5 -- Housing Assistance Program 6 — Australian War Memorial

Together the expenditure in these Programs comprised the following: Divisions 219-222 (Document A) Divisions 839-842 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Veterans' Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session to consider items for the Committee's Report. The Committee agreed to include the following items: a. Questions on Notice

b. Explanatory Notes - layout c. Department of Employment, Education and Training — Sub-program 5.2.-- Womens employment.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.50 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Peter Baume, Giles, Sheil, Walters and Zakharov.

Senator Brownhill also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

L ( .

( r

Mai Colston (Chairman)

139.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

INDEX TO ISSUES RAISED IN PUBLIC HEARINGS

THURSDAY,

THURSDAY,

THURSDAY,

8 OCTOBER 1987

22 OCTOBER 1987

29 OCTOBER 1987

141

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

HANSARD

THURSDAY, 8 OCTOBER 1987

Index to Issues

Department of Employment, Education and Training

Page

Chairman's Opening Statement 1

Program 1 - Training 2

- Evaluation of CES training programs - Number of people placed in work by CES - Computer equipment in Deakin offices - Program auditing and evaluation

- Presentation of programs in Explanatory Notes - Number of people in employment after taking CES training programs - Adult training programs and TAPE - Program "Schools, Funding and Policy" - Commonwealth/State relations regarding school

support programs 7-8

- Block granting of capital program for non-gov't schools 9

- CYSS 10

Sub-Program 1.1 - Adult Training Program 10

- Allocation to programs 10-11

- Training of long-term unemployed 11

- Training allowance 11-12

- Funds for child care 12

Sub-Program 1.2 - Youth Training Program 12

Sub-Program 1.3 - Trade Training 12

- Trainee cost compared to an apprentice 12-13

- Number of Trainees 13

Sub-Program 1.5 - Skills Training 13

- staff years involved 13

- Staffing of positions 13-14

- Problems with appeal system 14

- Recruitment of staff to CES 15

- EEO 15

- Union involvement in recruitment of staff 15-16

- staff appointment process 16-17

143.

< n m'd* ld id vo vo

Program 2 - Job Creation and Employment Assistance 17

- Success of CEP programs 17-18

- Funding of CEP programs 18-19

Sub-Program 2.3 - Mobility Assistance 19

- Expenditure 19

Sub-Program 2.4 - Industry and Regional Employment Assistance 19

- Heavy engineering adjustment and development program 19-20

- Expenditure on heavy engineering program 20

- Christmas Island 20

- Textile, clothing and footware program 21

- Coal mining labour adjustment program 21-22

Program 3 - Community Based, Aboriginals and Youth Affairs 22

- Evaluation of program objectives 22

Sub-Program 3.1 - Community Youth Support Scheme (CYSS) 22 - Evaluation of CYSS 22-23

- Funds for CYSS premises 23

Sub-Program 3.3 - Community Volunteer Program 23 - Staffing 23-24

- Evaluation of program 24

- Applications for funds 24

- NADOW 24-25

Sub-Program 3.5 - Youth Affairs 25

- Reduction in allocation in 1986-87 25

Program 4 - Placement/Delivery and Information Services 25

- Rate of placement by CES 25-27

- Unemployment rate 27

- Job vacancies listed with CES 27-28

- Job survey 28

Sub-Program 4.4 - CES Administration 28

- Expenditure 28

Sub-Program 5.1 - Labour Market and Economic Analysis 28 - Expenditure 28

Sub-Program 5.2 - Women's Employment 28

- Expenditure 28-29

- Women's employment research 29

- Objectives of program 29-30

- Staff reductions, effect on programs 30-31

- "Women's Employment - Sponsored Research" expenditure, delays in approval of grants 31

- Approval of expenditure over election period 31-32

144 .

Sub-Program 5.3 - Australian Council for Employment and Training 32

- External research and development projects 32

Sub-Program 5.4 - Women's Employment 32

- Outwork 32

Program 6 - Temporary Education Policy and Funding 32

- Mr. Dawkin's statement 32-33

- $250 administration fee 33

- Fees for post-graduate courses 33

Sub-Program 6.1 - Higher Education 34

- Equipment grants 34

- "Special Assistance for Students" 34

- Funds held by universities and CAEs 34

- $250 administration fee 34-35

- Cost of a student place 35

- Increased student numbers 35-36

- Research funding 36

- Tenure 36-37

Sub-Program 6.2 - Institutes of Tertiary Education 37 - The Western Institute 37

- Darwin Institute of Technology 38

- New University in Sydney 38

Sub-Program 6.3 - Technical and Further Education 38 - Funding 38

- PEP 38

- New arrangements 38-39

Sub-Program 6.4 - Policy and Administration 39

- Bond University 39

Sub-Program 6.5 - Research Grants and Fellowships 40 - Academic Salaries Tribunal 40

Program 7 - Schools Funding and Policy 40

- ESL program funding 40

- Ethnic schools funding 40

Sub-Program 7.1 - Curriculum Development 40

- Curriculum Development Council 40

- Evaluation of CDC performance 40-41

- CDC/state relationship 41-42

- Participation of girls in mathematics and science 42-44 - CDC involvement with the A.C.T. 44

- Telopea Park School 44

Sub-Program 7.2 - Specific Purpose Development Program 44 - Loan video program 44-45

- Computer education program 45

- Country areas program 46

- Disadvantaged schools in country areas 46

145.

Program 8 - Student Assistance 46

- AUSTUDY 46-47

- AUSTUDY payment to payments 47

- ESL payments 47

Sub-Program 8.1 - Age Related Education Allowance for for Secondary and Tertiary Students (AUSTUDY) 48

- English for migrants program 48

Program 9 - International Education 48

- Overseas Student Charge 48

- Students from China 48-49

- China/Australia relations 49

- Number of overseas students in Australia 49

- Displacement of Australian students 49-50

- Administrative costs of ASL 50

- Malaysia selection of students 50-51

Program 10 - Assessment and Development 51

- Government policies and their implementation 51

Sub-Program 10.4 - Education Development and Co-ordination 51

- Funding for national language policy 51

- Funding for ESL program 51-52

Program 11 - Corporate Services 52

Sub-Program 11.3 - General Services 52

- Payment section 34A(1) of Audit Act 52

146.

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

HANSARD

Thursday, 8 October 1987; Thursday, 22 October 1987

Index to Issues

Department of Community Services and Health

Thursday 8 October 1987 Page

Chairman's Opening Statement 53

Minister's Opening Remarks 53

Program 1 - Health Advancement

- Computer Equipment in the Deakin Offices 53

- Computer Systems Utilised by the Department 53-54 - Administrative Expenses 54

- Questions Relating to Medicare benefits 54

- Advertisement regarding nursing home scandal 54 - Use of Departmental resources in letters criticising opposition tax and expenditure cutting policies 54-55

- Funds for health care access 55

- Payments to International Health bodies (e.g. World Health Organisation) 55

- Programs related to cancer research, chemical safety and drug abuse 55-56

- WHO and tobacco research 56

- Latest figures for drug-related deaths in Australia 56

Sub-Program 1.2 - Environmental Health standards

- Irradiation of food: inquiries and research 56-57

Sub-Program 1.3 - Health Promotion and Disease Prevention ~

- Measures to combat AIDS: funding 57

- Specific Programs for prevention of disease in the aged (e.g. osteoporosis) 57-58

- Program on Alzheimer's Disease 58

147.

Sub-Program 1.4 - International Health

- Australian trials of an abortifacient vaccine (i.e. anti-HCG vaccine) 58-60

- Effects of the anti-HCG vaccine 60

Sub-Program 1.5 - Program Management

- Relationship between staff years estimate and salary estimate 60-61

Program 2 - Australia Card

- Appropriation for the Health Insurance Commission 61 - Appropriation for the Department of Health 61 - Staff of the Australia Card Secretariat 61

Thursday 22 October 1987

Chairman's welcoming and opening statement 64

- Future job arrangements for Australia Card Secretariat staff 64

- Involvement of Health Insurance Commission staff with Australia Card 64

- Expected financial benefits which would accrue from Australia Card 64-65

- Costs and benefits of the Australia Card program 65 - Revenue collected after recent Taxation Office crackdowns vis a vis Australia Card potential revenues 65-66

- Australia Card's role in the detection of taxation fraud 65-66

- Storage of documents pertaining to the Australia Card 66

- Winding down/dismantling of the Australia Card Secretariat 66

- Incorporation in Hansard of document on drug-caused deaths in Australia in 1985 (document reproduced) 66-67

Program 3 - Health Care Access

- Closure of Medicare agencies which have arrangements with private health funds 67

- List of such agencies 67

- Details of Western District Health Trust Fund (N.S.W.) 67

- St Luke's Health Insurance: staff numbers 67-68 - Current Medical rebates for consultant services for long term illnesses 68

- Consultant physician services 68

- Monitoring of effects of new consultant physician arrangements 68

- Consultative mechanism to monitor new arrangements 68 - College of general Practitioner's role in the monitoring 69

148.

GP's competence to treat unstable diabetes in the young 69

GP's competence to treat active thyrotoxicosis 69 GP's competence to treat continuing acromegaly 69 GP's competence to treat subacute bacterial endocarditis 69

GP's competence to treat cardiomyopathies 69 GP's competence to treat congestive heart failure 69 GP's competence to treat resistant cardiac arrythmias 69

GP's competence to treat resistant hypertension 69 GP's competence to treat acute peripheral neuropathy 69

GP's competence to treat myasthenia gravis 69-70 GP's competence to treat acute haemolytic anaemia 70 GP's competence to treat aplastic anaemia 70 GP's competence to treat neoplastic illnesses, especially where chemotherapy is involved 70 GP's competence to treat multiple sclerosis 70 GP's competence to treat acute ulcerative colitis 70 GP's competence to treat Crohn's Disease 70

GP's competence to treat chronic aggressive hepatitis 70

GP's competence to treat chronic pancreatitis 70 GP's competence to treat mucoviscidosis 70

GP's competence to treat acute rheumatoid arthritis 70

GP's competence to treat disseminated lupus erythematosus 70

GP's competence to treat scleroderma 70

Item numbers for initial consultations, follow-up visits and subsequent attendances - Medicare decisions on these 70

Payment of medical care benefits: correct itemising 70-71

Consistency of payment policies across Health Commission Offices 71

Decisions on the most appropriate item numbers 71 Definition of a single course of treatment 71

Distinction proposed between the item numbers for major consultations and those for minor consultations and those for minor consultants 71-72 Referral arrangements review 72

Timed consultations 72

Medical rebate arrangements for the removal of warts, general 72

Medical rebate arrangements for the removal of genital warts 72

Medical Benefits Advisory Committee determination in relation to the removal of genital warts 72-73 Mandatory periods of attachment to country and/or peripheral hospitals as a component of pre-registration, post-registration and

specialty education for doctors (submission to Doherty Inquiry into Medical Education and the Medical Work Force) 73

149.

- Benefits for radiotherapy planning 73

- Increased benefits for linear accelerator treatments 73-74

- Charges made by private radiotherapy treatment centres 74

- Physician's income compared with that of other medical profession specialties 75

- Medicare agencies being closed and number of claims being processed and amount of commission paid 75-76 - Places in which Medicare offices will be opened after agencies are closed 75-76

- Elements to be considered when opening new Medicare offices 76

- Cost of processing an average Medicare claim 76-77 - Percentage of errors in rechecking of Medicare agencies' forms 77

- Comparative costs of processing a bulk bill claim and a cash claim 77

- Number of Medicare claims paid in cash over the counter in agencies 77-78

- Total of cost of maintaining all Australian Medicare branches 78

- Average number of staff employed in Medicare branches 78

- Effect of cancellation of Medicare agency arrangements on outlying areas, like Rosebery and Queenstown in Tasmania 78

- Comparative figures for number of services paid for by cash and those paid for by cheque 78

- Medicare office and agency arrangements in rural Tasmania 79

Sub-Program 3.1 - Financial Support to Individuals

- Objectives of the program and sub-program 79 - Performance indicators 79-80

- Evaluation of the department's stated objectives 80 - Health Insurance Commission's interest in the Health Care Corporation 80

- Functions of the Health Care Corporation 80-81

- Medibank Private's interest in the Health Care Corporation 80-81

- Health Insurance Commission staff who are also staff members or directors of the Health Care Corporation 81

- Medibank Private's exemption from Federal or State taxes 82

- Taxes and charges payable by Medicare 82

- Health Insurance Commission's separation of Medicare and Medibank Private charges 82

- Construction of a new Health Insurance Commission headquarters building 82

- Commonwealth departments which are currently tenants of the Health Insurance Commission 82

150.

Sub-Program 3.2 - Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme

- Program objective 83

- New pharmaceuticals policy announced on 13 September 83

- Replacement of the pharmaceutical benefits pricing bureau by an independent authority 83 - Revision of the terms of reference of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee in

relation to the PBS drug list 83

- National Health Amendment Bill (No. 2) and recommendations of drugs as pharmaceutical benefits 83-84

- Formation and operation of pharmaceutical benefits authority 84

Sub-Program 3.3 - Financial Support to Service Providers

- Objective of program 84

- Performance indicators 84-85

- The utilisation and availability of hospital services in Australia 85

Sub-Program 3.4 - Health Services Provision

- Objective of program 85

- Performance indicators 85

- Department of Veterans' Affairs Hobart Pathology Laboratories 85

Program 4 - Therapeutic Goods

- Objective of program 85-86

- Evaluation and testing of drugs by the Department 86 - Drugs testing functions of the National Biological Standards Laboratory 86

- Testing of storage bins for minute particles of waste 86

- Testing role of the Australian Government Analytical laboratories 86

- Testing role of the National Health and Medical Research Council 86

- Research into the application, measurement and effects of radiation; the medical applications of ultrasound; and audiological and noise research 86-87 - Role of the National Acoustic Laboratories 86-87 - Role of the Australian Radiation Laboratory 86-87 - Evaluation and testing of hearing-aids 87

- Comparison of Department-produced and other hearing-aids 87

- South African laboratories/testing of biological products/falsified results 87-88

- Gestalt laboratories/falsification of results/ evaluation of products by the Department 87-88 - Industrial biotest laboratory scandal 88

151.

Program 5 - Research

Sub-Program 5.1 - Health Research

- Government contribution of funds to the WHO for international medical research 88

- Priorities for donation of funds for international medical research, for example, to the International Agency for Research on Cancer 88 - Menzies Foundation: possible WHO funding 88-89 - Menzies Foundation: other funding 89

- Northern Territory: school of health research: funding 89

- Program objective 89

- Performance indicators 89

- Health status of Australians today 89

- Data base recording advances in research likely to produce products which will improve clinical services 90

- Treatment of diabetes: new methods (Garvan Institute) 90

- Systems and processes employed in the administration of project grants by the NHMRC 90 - NHMRC's connection with medical research institutions receiving grants 90-91

- Mechanism for determining the award of medical research grants 90-91

- Amount of taxpayers' money presently being paid to the Walter & Eliza Hall Institute; Howard Florey; Baker; Murdoch; and Garvan Institutes 90-91 - Composition of institutional ethics committees

in these organisations 91

- Details of the number of grants and grants earmarked by the NHMRC from the fund for 1987-88 91 - Grant to Professor Swan by the NHMRC for a study on bioethical issues in the use of foetal tissues,

invitro garnets and embryos 91-92

- Professor Swan's co-investigators on the project 92 - Did anyone on the NHMRC's Medical Research Ethics Committee suggest to Professor Swan and his colleagues that they make the application? 92-93

- Does the process through which this application passed differ from the normal route for applications? 93

- Assessment details can be made public but not assessors' names 93

- NHMRC's inquiry into registers of inherited disorders 93

Sub-Program 5.2 - Health Services Research

- Salaries and payments 93-94

- Staff years 93-94

152.

Program 6 - People in Crisis

- Women as a priority area in policy and program delivery 94

- Role of the Department's Secretariat Branch 94 - Women's health unit 94

- EEO function within the corporate services area 95 - Expenditure outlays 95-96

- Breakdown of figures for homeless by category 95-96 - Program management: combating discrimination 96 - Staff numbers administering SAAP 96

- Amount spent on technical equipment to assist in the employment of disabled Commonwealth employees 96-97

- Appropriation arrangements for SAAP programs 97

Sub-Program 6.1 - Youth in Crisis

- Reduction in numbers of youth in crisis 97

Sub-Program 6.2 - Women in Crises

- Data collection from women's refuges 97-98

Sub-Program 6.5 - Program Management

- Auditor-General audits of the Department of Community Services and Health 98

- Departmental investigations to determine the effectiveness of its programs 98

Program 7 - People With Disabilities Who Need Additional Assistance

- Departmental response to problems identified by the Auditor-General in relation to the Handicapped Persons Assistant Act 98-99

- Internal auditing of new procedures under the Disabilities Services Act 99

- Evaluation of demonstration projects 99

Sub-Program 7.1 - Accommodation and accommodation support

- Transition in regionalising services 99-100

- Mount Wilga and rehabilitation services 100

Sub-Program 7.3 - Community Participation

- Provision of skills to the disabled to allow them greater community participation 100

- Financial support for disabled sportspersons e.g. table tennis players 100

- Participation of the disabled in community-based leisure and recreation activities 100-101

153.

S u b - P r o g r a m 7.4 - P r o g r a m Mana g e m e n t

- Consumer rights 101

- Advocacy services 101

- Self-advocacy, citizen advocacy and group advocacy services 101

- Redfern Legal Service 101

- Kit on workers' rights in sheltered workshops for the disabled 101-102

- Residential care for the aged: complaints mechanism 102

- N.S.W. accommodation rights service 102

Refer to:

Program 5 - Research

- Tabling of documents earlier requested by Senator Harradine on p. 91 i.e. details of NHMRC grants for 1987-88 102

Program 8 - Families With Children

Sub-Program 8.1 - Child Care

- Numbers of children requiring child care services 102 - Taxation deductibility for child care expenses 102 - Financing of/provision of child care 102-103

- Child care equal opportunity and affirmative program 102-103

- Government's equal opportunity and affirmative action program 102-103

- Taxation deductions for legitimate employment expenditure 103

- Environmental assessment in relation to child care needs 103-104

- Removal of barriers to child care participation by disadvantaged groups 104

- Types of services provided to those requiring special child care services 104

- Minimisation of the risk of breakdown in family units 104

- Family support program 104-105

- Program objectives: child care and family support 105 - Services aimed at minimising family breakdown 105 - Out term prices: definition 105

- Average comparative costs of standard private child care, family day care and community day care 105 - Senator Walsh's comments on the costs of community day care 105-106

- Public versus private sector role in the provision of child care services 106

- Staffing requirements for child care centres 106 - Provision and location of child care centres 106-107

154.

- Objectives for the health and community services sections of the Department respectively 107

- Touche Ross survey of high cost child care centres 107-108 - Handicapped children in child care 108

- Restructuring child care operations 108

- Long hours issue: the provision for shift workers at the Jennifer Lockwood Centre 108

- Family day care scheme providing out of hours service or all-night care 108

Program 9 - Housing

- Low cost housing program for the handicapped in N.S.W. 108-109

- Commonwealth Bank savings rate on home loans 108-109 - State initiatives to provide low cost and low interest home loans 109

- Funding for first home owners' scheme 109

- Income thresholds and benefits applicable under first home owners' scheme 109

- Low income home loan scheme in N.S.W. 109-110

Sub-Program 9.1 - Home Ownership

- Staff savings in the processing of first home owners' scheme applications 110

- Cost of administering first home owners' scheme 110

Sub-Program 9.2 - Rental Accommodation

- Expenditure on the Community Forum on Housing 110-111 - Performance indicators and latest census figures 111

Sub-Program 9.3 - International Year of Shelter for the Homeless

- Performance indicators and latest census figures 111

Program 10 — Program for Aged People Who Need Residential Care

- Community services audits which found major deficiencies in the delivery of services 111

- Improvements in the delivery of services by e.g. new gazettal arrangements 111-112

- Assessment arrangements for hostels/nursing homes 111-112 - Admissions to nursing homes 112

- Health Care services to the aged 112

- Geriatric specialists: availability 112

- Assessment skills and specialists required 112 - G.P.'s role in assessment of geriatric patients 112-113 - Training and experience of hostel staff 113

- Nursing staff numbers in Tasmanian nursing homes 113 - Funding for Tasmanian nursing homes 113-114

- Incentives for developing private nursing homes in Australia 114

- Shortage of nursing home beds in Australia 114

155.

- Hostel and home and community care services in Australia 114

- Licensing of nursing homes that are unrelated to Government subsidy 114

- Assessment of treatment of "nursing home type- patients" 114

- Assessing the effectiveness of nursing home monitoring teams 114-115

- Questions incorporated in Hansard by Senator Harradine relating to NHMRC grants; "Registers of Inherited Disorders"; the anti-HCG vaccine trials; and abortion numbers 115-116

Program 12 - Corporate Management and Support Services

- Effectiveness of the EEC legislation 116

- Expenditure on technical equipment for disabled employees 117

- Details of educational and training skills of Aboriginals and the intellectually disadvantaged to enable them to be employed 117

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE HANSARD

Thursday, 22 October 1987

Index to Issues

Department of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs "

Page

Chairman's welcoming statement 117

Reply by Senator Reynolds, Minister for Local Government 117-118

Program 1 - Migration 118

- Move of Immigration Department to Chifley Square 118 - Decentralisation of immigration Department in Sydney area 118

- Prime Minister's request for "sharper economic focus for immigration program" 118-119

- Treaty obligations Australia has, concerns of Department or Government 119

- UNHCR 119-120

- Family reunions, Vietnam and China 120

- "Economic migration" 120

- Refugee migration 120

- Process goals vs outcome goals 120-121

- Performance indicators for Program 1 121

- Deakin offices in Kent Street 121-122

- Computing facilities 121-122

- Australian Customs Service relations with Dept. of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs in respect to computer systems 122

- Special migration category 122

- Migrants from indo China, Latin America, Eastern Europe, Africa, Middle East 122-123

- Special migration programme 123

- Resumption of citizenship 123

- "Territorial asylee" 123

- Academic migrants 123-124

Sub-Program 1.2 - Refugee and Social Migration 124

- Camp closures in Thailand 124

157.

Sub-Program 1.3 - Economic Migration 124

- Independent and concessional program 124-125

- Expenditure on promoting business migration 125 - Types of businesses established by migrants 125 - Merchant Bank investments 125

- Points system 125

- Staffing of foreign posts 126

Sub-Program 1.4 - Resident Status 126

- Change of status applicants 126

- Approval for work 126-127

- Access to social security systems 127

Sub-Program 1.5 - Review 127

- Backlog of review cases 127-128

- Numbers involved 128

- Time involved 128

- Recruitment of staff 128-129

Sub-Program 1.6 - Program Management and Support 129

- Additional provision for Austrade 129

Program 2 - Visitor Entry 129

- Visitors remaining illegally 129

- Problems of confusion regarding people who overstay 129

- Number of visitors who overstay 129-130

- Access to legal aid by illegal immigrants 130 - Amnesty for illegal immigrants 130

- Action against illegal immigrants 131

- Information from Taxation Department 131

- Sources of information 131

- Computerisation of visitors' visas 132

- People with criminal records 132

- Fraudulent documents 132-133

Sub-Program 2.2 - Compliance 133

- Illegal immigrant who worked, received social security benefits, education, Medicare and accommodation subsidies 133

- Computer link with social security 133-144

- Number of people working illegally 134

Sub-Program 2.4 - Criminal Deportations

- Warnings to 24 regarding further criminal convictions 134

158.

Program 3 - Ethnic Affairs

- Help provided to migrants - Migrant accommodation increase allocation - Supply of flats

- Grants to trade unions - Grant to Fairfield City Council - Migrants who can't speak English - Grants to trade unions for English teaching program

Sub-Program 3.2 - Ethnic Affairs

134- 135 135 135 135 135 135- 136 136- 137

- Number of El Salvadorians in Australia 137

Sub-Program 3.3 - Recognition of Overseas Professional Qualifications 137

- Assessment of medical qualifications - Role of COPQ - Engineering qualifications - Bridging courses for qualified women - Delay in assessing overseas qualifications

137- 138 138 138 138

138- 139

Program 4 - Corporate Services 139

- Executive Projects Unit service to Minister - Courses on Christmas Island 139 139

Sub-Program 4.2 - Executive Secretariat 139

- increase in representation to the Minister - Advisory bodies to Minister restructured - Savings due to new ministerial arrangements - Expenditure on Minister's office

140 140 140

140-141

Sub-Program 4.4 - Personnel Management 141

- Cost of EEO program - Women's Unit - Staffing level of Women's desk - Expenditure related to EEO - Client dissatisfaction

141 141 141-142 142

142

Sub-Program 4.5 - Information and Publications 142

- List and cost of publications - Business migration promotion

142 142-143

Sub-Program 4.6 - ADP 143

- Use of computers, issue of visas, migration - Industrial relations problems - Issue of visas through Qantas and others - Countries requiring visas

143 143 143-144 144

159.

Program 5 - Citizenship 144-145

- Dual citizenship

Sub-Program 5.1 - Grant 145

- Citizenship survey 145

- Contribution to intergovernmental committee on migration 145

- Australian institute of multicultural affairs 145 - Expenditure of ADP funds 145

Program 6 - Local Government and Regional Development 145

- Increase in financial allocation for local government authorities in Tasmania 145-146

- Presentation of the explanatory notes 146

160.

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

HANSARD

Thursday, 29 October 1987

Index to Issues

Department of Veterans' Affairs

Page

Chairman's welcoming statement 147

Reply by Senator Reynolds, Minister for Local Government 147-148

Prepared questions incorporated by Senator P. Baume 148-149 - increased funding for computer equipment - identity card - Defence Service Home Loans Scheme - Repatriation occupied bed days in 1986/87 - Cash grant for Defence Homes Scheme - New Defence Service Homes Scheme - Australian War Memorial - Expected expenditure on Veterans' Affairs

for next 10 financial years - Number of veterans divided into each war - Expenditure on T.P.I. pensions

Program 1 - Benefits' Program 149

- Number of 27 pay days 149

- Performance indicators for program 1 149

- Performance indicators in draft annual report 149-150 - Refining objectives 150

- Achievement of Department's objectives 150

- Department of Finance Unit which oversees Department of Veterans' Affairs 150-151

- Performance criteria used by Unit 151

- Objectives of Unit 152

- Cost of evaluations in relation to programs 152-153 - Areas of evaluation 153

- Results of evaluation 153-154

- Funds for computing equipment 154

- Identity card system 154

- Defence Service Home Loans Scheme 154

- Decline in repatriation occupied beds in 1986/87 154

- Separation of programs in Explanatory Notes 155 - Projections of numbers of veterans to receive income support 155

- Number of veterans by conflict 155

- "Cell" in Dept, of Veterans' Affairs 155-156

161 .

- Cutbacks in the Department 156

- Computer equipment in the Deakin offices 156

- ID card and involvement of Dept, of Veterans' Affairs 156-157

Sub-Program 1.1 - Income Support 157

- Expected expenditure on Veterans' Affairs in future 157

- Document "Senate Estimates Hearings. Responses to Questions from Mr Fischer 157-158

- Telephone rental concessions increase 158-159

Sub-Program 1.2 - Compensation 159

- Computation of dependants pensions 159

Sub-Program 1.3 - Program Administration 160

- Increase in running costs 160

Program 2 - Health

- Administration of programs: costs 160

- Administrative expenses 160-161

- Service pension population numbers served by the department 161

- Disability pension population numbers served by the department 161

Sub-Program 2.1 - Direct, Non-Institutional Care - Costs of medical examinations, fares etc 161

- Cost of transferring a pathology laboratory from the Dept, of Health in Hobart 161

Sub-Program 2.2 - Short Term Institutional Care - Number of veterans treated in repatriation and public hospitals as opposed to the private hospitals and cost differential

between the two 161-162

- Bed day costs for each of the repatriation hospitals 162

- Uniform fees for medical practitioners generally, especially in regard to the schedule fee: departmental policy 162-163

- The rationalisation and eventual integration of the repatriation hospitals into the State systems 162-163

- Salaries paid to departmental officers in the various states 163

- Salaries paid to department's salaried staff 163 - Salaries paid to the medical officers employed by the department 163-164

- Fees for visiting medical officers of state repatriation hospitals: differences in payments between states, especially in NSW and Tasmania 164-165

162.

- Hourly fee rate paid to visiting medical officers of state repatriation hospitals in Queensland, NSW, WA, Victoria, SA and Tasmania (first and final offers, Columns 1 and 2 respectively) - Discrepancies between the Victorian state

165-166

award to doctors and that of the department - As above for all six states (discrepancies 166

between offers) 166

- Reasons for promotions of and substantial pay rises to about 23 clerks in the Repatriation General Hospital at Heidelberg - Departmental salary bill as a component of

166-167

total outlays 167

Sub-Program 2.3 - Long Term Care - Number of patients to be admitted to non-departmental nursing homes for 1987-88 168 - Occupied bed days for non-departmental

nursing homes - Estimates of both admissions and of occupied bed days for patients in nursing homes for

168

1986-87 168

Sub-Program 2.4 - Program Administration - Recovery of costs from overseas (for operating repatriation hospitals and other medical services)

Program 3 - War Graves

168-169

Sub-Program 3.1 - Commemoration - Definition of a commemoration - Types of commemoration - Care and maintenance costs of lawn

169 169

cemetries etc - Maintenance of war graves in Lebanon 169 and Libya - Maintenance of war graves in Damascus - Commonwealth War Graves Commission budget - Commonwealth War Graves Commission staffing - Name of the Director of the Office of

169- 170 170 170 170- 171

Australian War Graves 171

Sub-Program 3.2 - Care and Maintenance - Transfers between programs by department - Format of the Estimates i.e. opinion on 171

program budgeting format

Program 4 - Corporate Services

171

- Provision for equal opportunity and a Women's Unit 171-172

- Number of women in the department's Senior Executive Service 172

163.

172

- Number of women in other levels of the department - Other groups discriminated against in society: numbers in the department 172-173

- The Women's Unit: functions and structure 172-173 - Percentage of new positions to be filled by women broken down into category of position and seniority level 173

- Intellectually disadvantaged access program 173-174 - Percentage of Aboriginals and people from the physically disadvantaged groups in the SES area 174

- Amount spent by the Department on technical equipment to assist the physically disadvantaged 174

- Amount spent on training for Aborigines in educational and skill development 174

- Amount spent on purchasing equipment for disabled staff 174

- Recruitment of Aboriginal staff 174

- Use of the term 1 the disabled1 174

- Ability of departmental employees to speak and write English 174

- Facilities for employees to learn English 174-175 - Cost of providing these facilities 174-175

- Number of migrants in the SES whose first language is not English 175

- Breakdown of numbers of employees with physical and mental disabilities 175

- Since the EEO legislation number of officers employed with mental disabilities, if any? 175

Program 5 - Housing Assistance

- Cash grant for the defence service home scheme 175 - Defence Service Homes Assistance Program: interest rates 176

Sub-Program 5.1 - Lending - Housing loans 176

- Range of interest rates for housing loans 176

- Comments about the way in which questions have been placed on notice 177

- Sale of the DSH insurance scheme 177

- Management of the DSH insurance scheme 177

Sub-Program 5.2 - Insurance - Insurance to those having a war service home 177 - Uniformity of insurance rates throughout Australia? 177-178

164.

Program 6 - War Memorial

- Visiting fee for the more fragile galleries of the Australian War Memorial 178

Sub-Program 6.3 - Research - Author of the official history of Australia's involvement in the Malayan emergency and the-- Vietnam War 178

- Possible omission of details from that history 178 - Completion date for the history 178

- Cost of the project 178

Sub-Program 6.4 - Corporate Services

- Utilisation of properties owned, rented or leased by the government for Australian War War Memorial use „ 179

- Properties concerned, areas, rental or leasing costs involved 179

165.

Estimates Committee E

Report to the Senate

November 1987

167.

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•*1

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee E presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

On 22 September 1987 the Senate referred to the Committee

Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1988 (being Appropriation Bill (No. 1)

1987/88), Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1988 (being Appropriation Bill (No.

2) 1987/88) and Expenditure Under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ending on 30 June 1988 for the following

departments -

. Attorney-General's . Administrative Services . Defence . Aboriginal Affairs

The Committee has considered the particulars of proposed expenditure and actual expenditure for each of the above Departments, making use of the Departmental Explanatory Notes. The Committee has also received explanations from the Minister

for Home Affairs (Senator the Hon. Robert Ray), the Minister for Justice (Senator the Hon. Michael Tate) and officers from the departments and authorities concerned. Copies of the Minutes of

Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the

Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with its consideration of Appropriation Bills (Nos. 1

and 2) 1987/88 and the Expenditure under the Advance to the

169.

Ί

Minister for Finance. Written answers to questions taken on

notice will also be tabled in the Senate in a volume entitled

"Additional Information - Written Answers to Questions Taken On

Notice - Estimates Committee E". Some answers to certain

questions on notice asked before and during the Committee's

hearings have already been incorporated in the Committee's Hansard. Additional papers tabled in the Committee by the Ministers will be either, included in full, or, where they are

already public documents, by reference, in the Committee's

Additional Information volume referred to above. This volume

also contains a number of written answers to questions arising from the Committee's Additional Estimates hearings in May 1987 but not answered in time for publication then.

The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to some of the

matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates. A much larger number of issues was raised by the Committee during the

course of its hearings. For the information of Senators a Hansard index to all of these issues is attached as an appendix to this Report.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

Sub-program 2.4 - Business and Consumer Affairs

The Committee considered reports that the National Companies and

Securities Commission (NCSC) might be facing difficulties because of the high turnover rate of skilled personnel including lawyers, accountants and senior managers. In answer to a question on notice the Committee received the following information -

In the 1986 calendar year, the NCSC had a staff ceiling of 82. Excluding short-term agency and temporary staff, there were 26 resignations, which is an annual separation rate of 32%.

The rate of resignations was generally uniform over each category of staff, eg in the 1986 calendar year the NCSC employed 55 "professional" staff (ie

170.

persons who could not otherwise be classified as keyboard or clerical) . In this category there were 17 resignations or 31%. Of the 17, 4 were legal staff and 11 were employed in operational branches. Of this latter group, 4 were assistant branch heads. In all the average length of NCSC service of this professional group was approximately 20

months.

In the 1987 calendar year, there have been 25 resignations to date out of a staff ceiling of 82 - a separation rate of 36% in a full year.

A break-down of the resignations in the first ten months of 1987 shows 18 "professional" staff (ie 39% in a full year). Of these, 5 were engaged in the legal officer structure and 7 in the

operational branches. A .further two were operations branch heads and one was a division head. The average length of NCSC service of this professional group in 1987 was just under 3 years.

(Written answer to question on notice)

The main reason for this high rate was said by Mr R. Schoer,

Executive Director of the NCSC, to be due to public service salary scales that were not sufficiently competitive with a private sector which offered better opportunities for the kind of

skilled professionals working in the Commission. Mr. Schoer indicated that the turnover was causing "quite serious" problems for the efficiency of the Commission and senior personnel were

required to spend much time on recruitment and training, causing deficiencies in the implementation of the Commission's legislative responsibilities. Since the Commission was largely an information processing organisation monitoring share markets

on a time-sensitive basis, continuous processing of companies and securities data was essential to optimum performance. Mr. Schoer

told the Committee that -

Because of the loss of staff, frequently some of the branches that do the processing would be operating with a third or half of their staff resources which means we simply have to make

decisions not to undertake certain areas of surveillance. (Senate Estimates Hansard, 8 October 1987, E7)

171.

The Committee draws to the attention of the Senate the fact that because of a high staff turnover the National Companies and

Securities Commission is unable to undertake certain areas of surveillance within its statutory responsibilities.

Sub-program 2.8 - Payment for Gazettal of Marriage Celebrants

The Committee noted that an amount of $60,000 had been

appropriated to pay for the gazettal, in over 300 pages, of the names of some 17,000 marriage celebrants and prescribed

authorities. An advertising charge of $198 per gazette page is levied as part of a cost recovery program by the Australian

Government Publishing Service. Mr. R. Ruble, the Government Printer, told the Committee that if the Attorney-General1s

Department provided his office with camera-ready copy the costs of publishing this list could be reduced (Senate Estimates Hansard, 8 October 1987, E59).

The Committee reports to the Senate this potential for saving

public monies, and recommends that appropriate methods of economising be examined by the Attorney-General1s Department.

DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Sub program 4.2 - Removal Services

The Committee noted that the Department had been unable to reduce the rate of one loss/damage claim per 2.3 removals. This was in

spite of what the Department believed were "strong efforts" by it, including suspending seven contractors. This rate of claims was described by Mr. B. Hinchcliffe, General Manager, Transport and Storage Group, as being "pretty close to the norm... pretty

close to the performance level of the removal industry". (Senate Estimates Hansard, 8 October 1987, E55) However, when the Committee further examined this matter it was told that "the

usual period of suspension is a month or so. Very few are fully

172.

suspended, or need to be these days". No removalist had actually

been struck off the list. Only a very small number had had to be

suspended twice. The Committee notes that although the suspension of a company at certain times when lucrative removal contracts were available could have a deterrent effect on

carelessness and low standards, the companies involved carry a very heavy responsibility for many valuable items, particularly personal items of Service personnel involved in stressful relocations.

The Committee is pleased to report that the Minister at the table. Senator the Hon. Robert Ray undertook to convey the

Committee's concerns for the maintenance of high standards in

this area to the responsible Minister, the Hon. Stewart West, M.P.

Program 9 - Purchasing and Sales

The Committee also examined in some detail a number of issues arising from the proposed sale of surplus Hercules aircraft. The Committee had the assistance of an officer who, with the

agreement of the Minister, Senator Ray, was later recalled after he had had an opportunity to consult Departmental records. The full scope of the Committee's questioning appears in the Senate Estimates Hansards for 8 October 1987 (page E60 et seq.) and

28 October 1987 (page E171 et seq.).

Government purchasing and sales activities are obviously areas

where, unless proper safeguards are in place, fraudulent practices may occur. In particular, where novel selling options

arise there is a need to ensure that adequate checks, controls and fraud prevention measures have been developed to minimise and preferably eliminate any potential for fraud in new ventures where official experience may be less extensive than in other

areas. The Committee considers that it. is important that the lessons to be learnt from the way in which the Hercules matter has been processed should not be overlooked. In answer to the

173.

question whether any departmental practices had been changed in

the light of aspects of the Hercules experience for Mr. Holdich

(Departmental Deputy Secretary) told the Committee -

We are looking at the recommendations of the fraud inquiry. We are seeing in what ways we need to alter our arrangements to take account of the recommendations of that committee. We have already taken steps to strengthen the arrangements in the

purchasing and sales area so that these sorts of problems that we have had in the past should not recur. We have not finalised precisely what we are going to do - we still have a couple more months to work that out - but action is being taken to try to strengthen the arrangements to prevent these sorts of abuses in the future. (Senate Estimates

Hansard, 28 October 1987, page E178)

The Committee reports to the Senate that there is always a need for high standards of official care and diligence in devising

methods to minimise the incidence of fraud in Government purchasing and sales activities. Finalisation of precise and effective procedures requires serious and urgent attention.

The Committee also considered the question of the disposal by sale of some 100,000 former Army .303 rifles. The Committee was

told by Mr. T. Butler, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing and

Sales Division, that proposals for a possible domestic sale of some of these weapons had been deferred "to enable, among other things, careful review to be made of the procedures to safeguard

the public interest". (Senate Estimates Hansard, 8 October 1987, E64) The officer also informed the Committee that -

...it was thought that the Department of Defence would carry out the sales domestically on an agency basis as there is a very great interest within the Defence portfolio in securing these weapons, presumably as souvenirs, (op. cit)

The officer made it clear that sales would have to comply with

State and Territory legislation controlling firearms. The Committee takes the view that given the absence of uniformity in this legislation, disposal of such an armoury should only be contemplated under the most strict supervision.

174.

The Committee notes the remarks of the Minister at the table,

Senator Ray, that he is not satisfied that at federal government

level sufficient surveillance measures are exercised to ensure

that the sale of such weapons is adequately and fully controlled. Such control would be a complex and difficult task in view of the

many factors involved, including the paramount factor of public safety, questions of civil liberty and disparate State and Territory laws.

The Committee reports to the Senate its recommendation that the disposal of these weapons is a matter of concern in which revenue

considerations and the novel nature of the goods should not at

any stage in the process be allowed to deflect attention from ensuring the highest standards of public safety.

Sub-Program 14.1 - Services to Members of Parliament

The Committee was told by Mr. J. Lleonart, First Assistant

Secretary, Parliamentary and Information Group, that following the replacement of the original computer contractor by another,

all electorate offices should be supplied with Cleveland 286 computers by the end of the year. (Senate Estimates Hansard, 8

October 1987, E66) This involved an increased provision in the appropriations of $2.5m. Since the unsatisfactory previous contract has cost the Commonwealth, the Committee inquired, on notice, whether any action had been taken against the original

contractor, HRC-Time. The Committee was told that -

No further orders were placed under the contract which has since been cancelled. No further action against HRC-Time is contemplated.

The contract was of the type which states terms and conditions only and against which orders are then placed. Given the subsequently revealed state of indebtness of HRC-Time to the Australian Taxation

Office and other creditors, any further action against them would have prolonged the settlement of outstanding matters between DOSMOS and HRC-Time. The final outcome has involved minimal loss to the Commonwealth due to a carefully negotiated

settlement with the receivers of HRC-TIME in so far

175.

as outstanding payments for goods and services were involved and the utilisation of the hard disc drives from the previous equipment in the new equipment. (Written answer to question on notice)

The Committee also inquired whether any publicly available report

had been prepared on the events surrounding the allocation of the original contract. The Committee was told that "the only reports

have been, in effect, the reports of the Senate Estimates Committees". (Mr. M. R. Holdich, Departmental Deputy Secretary, Senate Estimates Hansard, 8 October 1987, E67). The Committee

considered it to be unusual that, since something had gone very

seriously wrong with a properly selected government contractor,

no investigation had been made to ensure that this kind of

problem, with its consequent losses to public revenues, would not

arise again. The Minister at table, Senator Ray, told the Committee -

I am only going by memory but I think one of the things that went wrong was that the company

commissioned to put in the original computers was going broke. That was the biggest problem - it was not just a matter of poor equipment. (op. cit.)

On being asked, on notice, whether any investigation had been made into how a company in such difficulties was awarded such a significant contract in the first instance, the Department replied,

The standard purchasing procedures were followed. HRC-TIME were awarded the contract because they emerged from the tendering process as the lowest

priced, technically suitable solution with a high Australian content. (Written answer to question on notice)

In the absence of any inquiry into all of the circumstances surrounding the grant of the original contract and the monitoring

of its performance, there appear to be no recommendations

available that would assist with the early identification and correction of similar problems in the future.

176.

Program 19 - Parliament House Construction Authority

The work and responsibilities of the Parliament House

Construction Authority are matters of interest to all Senators as Parliament prepares to take up occupancy of the new Parliament

House. The Committee conducted a quite detailed examination of some aspects of relevant expenditure connected with the Authority. The Committee's hearing commenced somewhat late in

the evening and some interested Senators may not have had the opportunity to attend the Committee. For the information of

Senators, the matters considered by the Committee are recorded in

the Senate Estimates Hansard for 28 October 1987 at page E198 et sequi.

The annual report of the Parliament House Construction Authority

for the year 1986-1987 was not available for the Committee before, or during, the estimates hearings. In fact it is likely that the report will not be tabled until February 1988. Senate Estimates Committees have reported in the past that annual

reports should be available for use by the Committee during the estimates hearings and appropriate efforts should be made by all

of those responsible for the production and publication of reports to ensure that this occurs.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Division 230 - Administration

As mentioned above, timely availability of annual reports is a

matter of some significance to estimates committees. These reports can often satisfy Senators' queries and thereby avoid the need for some questioning by committees. The Committee draws to the attention of the Senate that the annual report for the

Department of Defence was tabled in the House of Representatives on 29 October 1987 exactly one week after the Committee's

hearings on the defence estimates.

177 .

On a number of previous occasions the Committee has reported its

concern about high rates of resignation from the Australian

Defence Force. For example, in the single month of September

1987 the total number of separations was almost 700. Early or

unforseen departures represent an enormous loss of time and money

invested in the training and skills of service personnel. This loss is seen most acutely in the departure of RAAF pilots where

resignation rates have increased. The possibility of a

dimunition in the defence capabilities of the Australian Defence Force arising from this are of concern to the Committee. The

Committee draws to the attention of the Senate the professional

assessment given to it by Air Vice-Marshal R. W. Bradford,

Deputy Chief of the Air Staff, which may be as applicable to other areas of the Defence Force as it is to the RAAF -

Fundamentally, it is a quality of life problem. The pilots can see that, with the experience that they have and with the qualifications they have, they can get more elsewhere if they leave the Services. That is one of the factors that takes them out. Also people these days are far more mobile than they used to be in terms of their

career aspirations. Whereas years ago somebody might have entered a particular career path and stayed there forever, these days people do not look at it from that point of view. There is more

pressure on people in regard to the education of their children as they get older. There is more pressure on wives to work, for example. Every time we move somebody, his wife has to give up a job and

if the child has to go to a new school

disadvantages are associated with that. Twenty years ago wives did not have to work, not because they did not have the aspirations to work, but because they did not need to work to get extra money. I suggest that these days a lot of wives work because they need that extra money to pay for

holidays, clothes and, in particular, schooling.

The schooling system has changed over the years to the extent that children are now assessed more subjectively than they were in the past. This means that they have to spend a lot of time at one school if they want to get good marks. So people are obliged to put them into boarding schools. That costs money. As I said earlier, I think it is a quality of life thing. (Senate Estimates

Hansard, 22 October 1987, E118-119)

178.

The Committee recognises that the issue of resignations from the Defence Force is under examination by the Minister for Defence,

the Hon, Kim Beazley, M.P., his Services and Departmental advisers and the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Foreign

Affairs, Defence and Trade. However, the Committee urges that all completed government studies of this problem should be made public where to do so would not prejudice national security or

cabinet secrecy but would contribute to a wide and positive

reexamination of the role, status and conditions of defence personnel in Australia.

The Committee was aware of the decision by the Minister for

Defence to discontinue the Departmental practice of publishing monthly statistics. Having considered this matter the Committee requests that any member of parliament, who makes a written request for monthly separation rates and other defence statistics

of the kind previously made available, should be supplied with those materials on a regular and continuous basis without having to make repeated monthly requests.

The Committee also examined the question of the quality and supply of current army footwear. The Committee was told that the matter was "a very sensitive one." (Major-General G. J.

Fitzgerald Deputy Chief of the General Staff, Senate Estimates Hansard, 22 October 1987, E102). Although there are stocks of

all sizes of GP boots there is not an adequate stock of any one size. Four contractors are presently manufacturing the product

with a production rate of approximately 4,500 pairs of boots per month. The present monthly usage figure for defence forces is

about 4,000. The Committee considers that provision of comfortable and reliable footwear to service personnel is a serious matter. The Committee was little comforted by

Major-General Fitzgerald's frank admission that those responsible for solving problems such as defective materiel in boots "have

been singularly unsuccessful in doing so over recent years",

(op.cit. E103)

179.

DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

Program 1 - Heritage

The Committee considered reports that a larger than usual number

of the Department's Canberra-based staff occuppied "acting"

positions, some for quite lengthy periods. Mr G. M. Brownbill, Deputy Secretary of the Department told the Committee -

That came about, in part, because of the nature of the officer cadre in the Department; that is, there are some officers who were recruited at junior

levels and have remained at those levels on account of their lack of capacity to satisfy some formal requirements relating to education, experience and the like but who, nevertheless, perform duties and

discharge functions which are valuable and important to the Department and have merited the payment of higher duties allowance. Many of those officers in that circumstance would be Aboriginals.

We pursue, as a matter of policy, efforts to give such officers every opportunity to discharge duties among the administrative work of the Department, for reasons which I think the Committee would understand... We have followed a policy of filling

positions at higher duties levels over periods which perhaps are too long. (Senate Estimates Hansard, 22 October 1987, E14 0 and E141)

The Committee recommends that the policy adverted to above should not be followed if, consistent with the requirements of

affirmative action, implementation of normal public service procedures could correct the anomaly.

The essence of the Senate Estimates Committee process is to ensure accountability to Parliament for funds to be appropriated

under the Appropriation Bills. Within certain procedural limits, that process involves both a prospective and retrospective

examination of expenditure. The information on expenditure which

is presented to the Committees is compiled by means of

necessarily strict departmental auditing and accounting processes. The Committee was concerned about some aspects of the

standards of auditing and financial control within the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and the Aboriginal Development Commission.

180.

The Committee considers that the highest practical standards of

financial accountability should be applied by the Department and the Commission to their client organizations in receipt of public

funds. Those organisations should be required to attain the highest practical standards of in-house accounting. The

Committee also expects, in particular, that Departmental and Commission officers will exercise the highest standard of supervision over the disbursement of funds as would be the

anticipated norm in other Departments.

GENERAL

The Committee was pleased with the new official representation arrangements for the Department of Defence. These involve fewer

but more senior officers. Generally speaking, answers to questions revealed the degree of authority and decisiveness that

the Committee welcomes and appreciates.

The Committee has noted that the time taken to answer questions

on notice has, generally speaking, been less than in previous

years. This is a helpful development.

Finally, the Committee thanks the Ministers, Senator the Hon. Robert Ray and Senator the Hon. Michael Tate for their courteous

assistance during the Committee's hearings. The Committee also acknowledges with appreciation the oral and written answers

provided by the official witnesses who appeared before it.

Terry Aulich Chairman

November 1987

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Estimates Committee E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

183.

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THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 1

Tuesday 7 October 1987

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.35 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 4.

2. RESOLUTIONS: The Secretary reported Resolutions of the Senate dated 22 and 24 September 1987 relating to appointment of Estimates _ Committees, reference of Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance from the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1987 to Estimates Committees, and appointment of members of Estimates Committees.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: Nominations for Chairman were called. Senator Aulich was nominated by Senator Bolkus. There being no further nominations, Senator Aulich was declared elected and thereupon took the Chair.

4. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee considered the order and dates on which to examine departments at the public hearings. The Committee agreed to proceed with the examination of Departments in the following order and on the following days:

Day and Date

Thursday, 8 October 1987

Thursday, 22 October 1987

Department

Attorney-General1s

Administrative Services

Aboriginal Affairs (Department only) (If sufficient time)

Defence

Aboriginal Affairs (Aboriginal Development Commission, and remainder of Department if not

completed on 8 October)

185.

1

5. AUTHORISATION TO PUBLISH DOCUMENTS: On the motion of Senator Short the Committee resolved that: The Committee authorises the publication of all documents presented to it in the course of its

hearings, and authorises the publication of written replies and other documents which may be forwarded to it after hearings have been completed.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.35 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Aulich, Beahan, Bolkus, Newman, Short and Tambling.

CONFIRMED:

T. Aulich Chairman

186.

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THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 2

Thursday, 8 October 1987

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. in the Senate Chamber. The Chairman, Senator Aulich, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. M.C. Tate, Minister for Justice, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General1s Department

Mr L.G. Glare, Deputy Secretary Mr L.J. Curtis, Deputy Secretary Mr T.A. Sherman, Deputy Secretary Mr R. St. John, Deputy Secretary Mr J.L.M. Carnsew, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Corporate Services Division Mr M.A. Cranswick, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Legal Aid Administration Mr R.C. Davey, First Assistant Secretary, Legal

Services Co-ordination Division Mr D. Edwards, First Assistant Secretary, Justice and Administrative Law Division Mr P. McDonald, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Criminal Law and Law Enforcement Division Mr N. Reaburn, First Assistant Secretary, Security Division Mr E. Willheim, First Assistant Secretary, Community

Affairs Division Mr P. Levy, First Assistant Secretary, Business Affairs Division Mr R. Smeaton, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary,

Resources Management Branch Mr P. Baskett, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr A. Watson, Senior Assistant Secretary, ADP Branch

Mr A. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Mr G. Shannon, Clerk, High Court of Australia Mr J. McKeown, First Assistant Commissioner, RTP and

Corporate Planning Division, Trade Practices Commission. Mr L. Coombs, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Services, Trade Practices Commission

1S7.

Mr D. Lenihan, Chief Executive Officer, National Crime Authority Mr G. Linnane, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, National Crime Authority Mr G. Neate, Acting Secretary, Constitutional

Commission Mr R. Schoer, Executive Director, National Companies and Securities Commission Mr R. Farmer, Deputy Commissioner, Operations,

Australian Federal Police Mr J. Johnson, Deputy Commissioner, Administration, Australian Federal Police Mr S. Gavin, Secretary, Australian Federal Police Mr R. Dixon, Commander, Coastal Protection Unit,

Australian Federal Police Mr D. Maddern, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Office of Consumer Affairs Ms D. Higgins, Assistant Director, Management, Director

of Public Prosecutions Ms S. Walker, Director Personnel, Director of Public Prosecutions Mr W. Chapman, Human Rights and Equal Opportunities

Commission Mr W. Johnson, Principal Registrar, Family Court Mr J. Howard, Principal Registrar, Federal Court of Australia Mr R. Krauss, Assistant Director, Finance

Mr I. Turnbull, First Parliamentary Counsel

Department of Finance

Mr T. Wall, Chief Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division Mr G. Ryle, Senior Finance Officer, Defence and Government Division

The Chairman called on for consideration the following Programs:

1. Legal Services to the Commonwealth 2. Law Related Services to the Community 3. Legal Aid 4. Administration of Justice 5. High Court of Australia 6. Maintenance of Law, Order and Security 7. Corporate Services

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1987-88 for the Department of the

188.

Attorney-General, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. R.F. Ray, Minister for Home Affairs, representing the Minister for

Administrative Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Administrative Services Department

Mr M. Roger, Deputy Secretary Mr R. Holdich, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Mellors, General Manager, Business Development Group Mr S. Palywoda, Assistant Secretary, Budgets and

Business Systems Branch Mr T. Hillier, General Manager, Australian Property Group Mr B. Smith, General Manager, Overseas Property Group

Mr G. Martin, General Manager, Construction Group Mr B. Hinchcliffe, General Manager, Transport and Storage Group Mr J. Sleep, General Manager, Surveying and Land

Information Group Mr P. Dawson, General Manager, Australian Protective Service Mr R. Rubie, Government Printer, Australian Government

Publishing Service Mr M. Coleman, General Manager, Australian Valuation Office Mr T. Butler, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing and

Sales Division Dr J. Zillman, Director, Bureau of Meteorology Dr C. Dahl, Assistant Government Analyst, Australian Government Analytical Laboratories

Mr B. Cox, OBE, Director, Australian Archives Mr J. Lleonart, First Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Information Group

Mr R. Pitt, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr T. Glasson, Secretary, Grants Commission Dr C. Hughes, Electoral Commissioner Dr D. Cole, Director, Ionospheric Prediction

Service

Department of Finance

Mr T. Gallagher, Chief Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch, Defence and Government Division Mr B.N. Steele, Senior Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch, Defence and Government Division Mr I.K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Works and

Territories Branch, Defence and Government Division

189.

Mr F.D. Giorgio, Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch, Defence and Government Division.

The Chairman called on for consideration the following Programs:

1. Australian Property Services 2. Overseas Property Services 3. Construction and Asset Management Services 4. Transport and Storage Services

5. Surveying and Mapping Services 6. Protective and Custodial Services 7. Valuation Services 8. Publishing and Printing 9. Purchasing and Sales 10. Metereology

11. Ionospheric Prediction Service 12. Australian Analytical Laboratories 13. Management of Government Records 14. Parliamentary, Information and Other Services 15. Accomodation and Catering Services 16. Electoral Services 17. Commonwealth/State Revenue Sharing 18. Corporate Management 19. Parliament House Construction Authority

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee suspended its hearing of the Department of Administrative Services.

The Committee agreed to resume consideration of the Department after completion of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs on 22 October 1987.

6· ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.37 p.m.

7· ATTENDANCE: Senators Aulich, Beahan, Bolkus, Newman, Short, Tambling.

Senators Alston, P. Baume, Brownhill, Collins, Hamer, Harradine, McKiernan, Panizza, Parer, Reid, Schacht, Teague also attended.

CONFIRMED:

T. Aulich Chairman

190.

THE SENATE

Thursday, 22 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 3

MEETING: The Committee met at 12 noon in the Senate Chamber. The Chairman, Senator Aulich, took the Chair.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE.

IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. R.F. Ray, Minister for Home Affairs, representing the Minister for Defence, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Defence

Vice-Admiral I.W. Knox, Vice Chief of Defence Force Rear Admiral N. Ralph, Deputy Chief of Naval Staff Major-General G.J. Fitzgerald, Deputy Chief of the General Staff Air Vice-Marshall R. W. Bradford, Deputy Chief of the

Air Staff Mr R.N. McLeod, Deputy Secretary A Mr L.B. Woodwood, Head of Defence Logistics Dr M.K. McIntosh, Chief of Defence Production Rear Admiral B.L. West, Chief of Naval Materiel

Major-General D.M.M. Francis, Chief of Materiel-Army Air Vice-Marshall B. H. Collings, Chief of Air Force- Materiel Mr A.F. Kent, First Assistant Secretary Defence

Industry and Materiel Policy Mr M.J. Murray, Special Advisor Resources Procurement Mr R.B. Finnegan, First Assistant Secretary Human Resources

Mr R.H. Englund, Assistant Secretary Manpower Policy and Strategies Mr N.R. Miller, First Assistant Secretary Facilities Mr M.H. Ives, First Assistant Secretary Programs &

Budgets Dr R.G. Brabin-Smith, First Assistant Secretary Force Development & Analysis Dr O.J. Raymond, Assistant Chief Defence Scientist

Operations Mr A.J. Behm, A/First Assistant Secretary Strategic and International Policy Mr R.K. Bain, A/Assistant Secretary Financial Programs

191.

Mr G.J. Hansen, Assistant Secretary Resources Planning- Navy Mr D. Hawke, Assistant Secretary Resources Planning- Army Mr P.R. Huntley, Assistant Secretary Resources

Planning-Air Force Mr J.E. McMahon, Assistant Secretary Budget Accounting & Supply

Department of Finance

Mr G.C. van Dijk, Defence and Government Division.

The Chairman called on for consideration the following Divisions:

Division 230 - Administration 234 - Equipment and Stores 240 - Defence Co-operation 241 - Defence Production

242 - Aerospace Technologies of Australia Pty Ltd 243 - Defence Housing 244 - Capital Advances and Loans

245 - Facilities

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1987-88 for the Department of Defence, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1987-88 - DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS.

5. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator, the Hon. M.C. Tate, Minister for Justice, representing the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Aboriginal Affairs

Mr G.M. Brownbill, Deputy Secretary Mr W. Gray, First Assistant Secretary, Heritage and Legal Division Mr A. Koukoulas, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate

Services Division Mr G. Menham, Assistant Secretary, Public Affairs Branch

192.

Mr W. Oakes, Assistant Secretary, Program Support Branch Mr R. Toohey, Assistant Secretary, Housing and Infrastructure Branch Mr K. Wanganeen, Assistant Secretary, Community

Development Branch Mr R. Morony, Director, Community Development and Employment Program Section, Employment, Education and Training Branch

Mr W. Miller, Assistant Secretary, Budget Branch Mr G . Bissaker, Director, Budget Co-ordination Section, Budget Branch

Aboriginal Development Commission:

Mrs S. McPherson, Chairman Mr M. O'Brien, General Manager Mr P. McMahon, Assistant General Manager (Administration) Mr M. Pope, Assistant General Manager (Strategic

Planning and Review) Mr C. Kay, Manager, Finance Mr P. Fitzwarren, Manager, Program Evaluation

Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies:

Mr W. Dix, Principal Mr T. Varga, Finance Officer

Aboriginal Hostels Ltd

Mr J . Rooks, Company Secretary

Department of Finance

Mr Q. Perks, Senior Finance Officer, Social Security Division

The Chairman called on for consideration the following Programs:

1. Heritage 2. Public Affairs 3. Social and Legal Services

4. Community Development 5. Corporate Services 6. Aboriginal Development Commission

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Paticulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for

193.

Finance 1987-88 for the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.59 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE:Sena tors Aulich, Beahan, Bolkus, Newman, Short, Tambling.

Senators M. Baume, P. Baume, Boswell, Brownhill, Burns, Chaney, Collins, Durack, MacGibbon, McKiernan, Messner, Panizza, Parer, Reid, Schacht, Stone, Vallentine also attended.

CONFIRMED:

T. Aulich Chairman

194.

THE SENATE

Wednesday, 28 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 4

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.11 p.m. in Senate

Committee Room No. 6. The Chairman, Senator Aulich, took the Chair.

2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP: The Chairman informed the

Committee that by resolution of the Senate, Senator Foreman has replaced Senator Beahan in accordance with Standing Order 36AB.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE FOR 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES.

3. IN ATTENDANCE: Senator the Hon. R. F. Ray, Minister for Home Affairs, representing the Minister for

Administrative Services, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Administrative Services

Mr M. Roger, Deputy Secretary Mr R. Holdich, Deputy Secretary Mr S. Palywoda, Acting General Manager, Business Development Group Mr T. Butler, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing

and Sales Division Mr G. Peatey, Chief Executive, Parliament House Construction Authority Dr C. Hughes, Electoral Commissioner

Mr C.J. Akeroyd, Sales Branch Mr A. Ray, Director of Finance and General Services Mr J. Mahoney, Assistant Commissioner, Information and Education Mr J.D. Fowler, Deputy Chief Executive, Parliament

House Construction Authority Mr J. Maher, Senior Executive, Administration and Finance, Parliament House Construction Authority

Department of Finance

Mr T. Gallagher, Chief Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch, Defence and Government Division Mr A. Hoitink, Senior Finance Officer, Government and Aid Branch

195.

The Committee resumed consideration from 8 October 1987 of the following Programs:

9. Purchasing and Sales: sub-program 9.2 - Sales - the matter of the disposal of Hercules ai rcr af t. 16. Electoral Services 19. Parliament House Construction Authority

The Committee considered expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1987-88 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1987-88 from the Department of Administrative

Services, subject to an undertaking by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.53 a.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Aulich, Bolkus, Foreman, Newman, Short, Tambling.

Senators M. Baume, Brownhill, Hill, Parer, Schacht, Walters also attended.

CONFIRMED:

T. Aulich Chairman

196.

THE SENATE

Wednesday, 4 November 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 5

MEETING; The Committee met in deliberative session at 12.45 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 7. The

Chairman, Senator Aulich, took the Chair.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Meetings held on 8 October, 22 October and 28 October (Nos 1 to 4) were confirmed. .

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate.

The Committee resolved that the draft Report be agreed to, subject to the inclusion of a number of amendments.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.46 p.m.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Aulich, Bolkus, Foreman, Newman, Tambling.

APOLOGIES: Senator Short.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

T. Aulich Chairman

197.

■

'

Estimates Committee E

Hansard Index to Issues Raised by the Committee

199.

*

•'

■

■χ

"

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR HANSARD OF HEARINGS

Thursday, 8 October 1987

Subject

Chairman's opening statement

ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT

Program 1 - Legal Professional Services

Data Protection Agency Efficiency Scrutiny Review into the Commonwealth Reporting Service Costs of administrative expenses Funding of Civil Liberties Councils Review into Fraud on the Commonwealth - Reports E4

- Attorney-General1s Department and Australian Federal Police (AFP) involvment Social Security prosecutions

Program 2 - Law Related Services to the Community

Sub-Program 2.3 - Bankruptcy Public Debt Counselling Agency Attorney-General1 s Department input into Law Reform Commission Report

Financial Counsellors Associations Grant Increases in administrative expenses Administration of bankrupt estates Statistics on the number of bankruptcies

Sub-Program 2.4 - Business and Consumer Affairs National Companies and Securities Commission - Staff turnover - Effect on efficiency

- Functions of the States - Costs of recruitment drives - Length of term of Commissioner - Location of Australian Securities Commission - Funding by Commonwealth and States

- Purchasing of computer equipment Trade Practices Commission - compensation and legal expenses Australian Federation of Consumer Organisations

- Increased in grant-in-aid - Government grants

Page

E1-E2

E3-E16

E3

E3-E4 E4

E27-E28

E4-5 E5

E5

E6 E6 E6 E6 E6

E6-E7 E7 E7 E7 E8

E9 E9

E10

E10

E10-E11

201.

National Consumer Affairs Advisory Council -- Costs of operations Ell

- Sitting fees E11-E12

Trade Practices Commission - Purchase of computer equipment E12

Sub-Program 2.6 - Marriage and Family Services Funding for marriage counselling organisations E12 Family conciliation centres - reduction in funding E12

- Phasing out of Wollongong and Noble Park Centres E12-E13

Australian Institute of Family Studies E13-E14

Marriage counselling services - Funding E14

- Closure of counselling centres E14

- Pre-marriage education E14-E15

Sub-Program 2.7 - Human Rights State funding E15

Funding for the Northern Territory E15

Administrative expenses E15

Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission - Re-establishment of Commission - costs E15-16 - Staff turnover E17

- Cost of severance payments E17

- National advertising E17

Sub-Program 2.8 - Ancillary Services Payments to international bodies E18

Gazettal costs of publishing names of marriage celebrants E18

East Asian Legal Studies Centre El8

Program 3 - Legal Aid

Aboriginal Legal Aid Service Payments to private practitioners Level of legal assistance given Fees paid to barristers and solicitors Funding by States

Program 4 - Administration of Justice

Federal Court - Taxation matters - Backlog of cases

Sub-Program 4.2 - Family Court of Australia Implementation of proposed amendments to the Family Law Act Numbers of Judges Delays in court hearings Child support scheme

El 9 El 9 El 9

E19,E20-E21 E20

E21-E22 E22-E23

E23 E23

E24-E25 E25-E26

202.

E26

Sub-Program 4.3 - A.C.T. Supreme Court Staffing arrangements

Sub-Program 4.5 - Administrative Appeals Tribunal Increase in fees E26

Sub-Program 4.6 - Other Tribunals Trade Practices Tribunal E26

- Australian Consumers Association - appeal E27

Program 5 - High Court of Australia

Sub-Program 5.1 - Management of High Court business Staffing arrangements E27

Video conferencing E27

Program 6 - Maintenance of Law, Order and Security

Sub-Program 6.1 - Police and criminal investigatory services E27

- Fraud Control Committee - AFP participation E28 - Funding to the AFP E29

- Fraud E30

- National Police Research Unit E30

- Australian Drug Database E30-E31

- AFP staffing E31

- AFP priorities E31-E32

- Witness protection E32

- National Crime Authority requests for witness protection E32-E33

- Use of coercive powers E33

- Membership of the N.C.A. E33

- Recovery of penalties in tax related matters E34

Sub-Program 6.3 - Counter Terrorism Administrative and salary expenses E35

Overtime associated with visiting dignitories E35

Sub-Program 6.4 - Protective Security Transfer of functions E35

Payments to consultants E35

Sub-Program 6.5 - National Security Payments to consultants E35

A.S.I.0. - Costs of relocation E35

- Back-up staff E36

- Intelligence services - South Pacific neighbours E37

Policing at airports E37

203.

Australian Federal Police

Administrative and salary expenses

Sub-Program 4 - International Obligations - Commitment to the U.N. Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus

Constitutional Commission

Allowances paid to members

Director of Public Prosecutions

Report on civil remedies

Chairperson's opening statement

DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Program 1 - National Criminal Investigations

Minister's opening statement E39

Program 1 - Australian Property Services

General issues Policy relating to selling of properties - Commonwealth Centre, Chifley Square, Sydney E40-E41 - New building at Parramatta Smoke-free working environment in Commonwealth offices - Costs involved

Sub-Program 1.1 - Estate Management Sale of property and materials - surplus items - Sale list of defence properties over $100,000 E41· - Major items (not $1 billion asset sales) E42-E43

Sub-Program 1.2 - Property Services Rent - Average paid by Commonwealth - Procedures to prevent 'dead rent' - Determination - Amount paid E43-

Sub-Program 1.3 - Program Support Ratio of servicing overheads to programs delivered

E37

E37

E37

E38

E39

E40

E40 ,E42 E41

E41 E41

E41 E41 ■E42 ,E58

E43

E43 E43 E43 ■E44

E44 E44

204.

Program 2 - Overseas Property Services

General issues Scheduled maintenance plans and costings - Foreign buildings due for maintenance - Timescale for reporting and provision

of maintenance - Outstanding work - New Caledonia: problems with residence Rental arrangements on Commonwealth overseas

properties Proposed sale of surplus Tokyo land: status Smoke-free working environment in Commonwealth overseas offices

E44 E44

E44 E44 E44

E44-E45,E47 E45-E47

E47

Program 3 - Construction and Asset Management Services

General issues Use of consultants in the Northern Territory E47 - Tindal air base project E48

Blowouts on construction projects E48-E49

- Acoustics Laboratory E48

- Australian Defence Force Academy E48-E49

Sub-program 3.1 - Works Planning E49

- Surveying services: fees E49

Sub-program 3.2 - Provision of new facilities E49

- Self-drive vehicles E49

Sub-program 3.5 - Specialist advice and services E49 - Maintenance program levels E49-E50

- Deferment of specific maintenance works E50

- Maintenance policy E50

- Review and implementation of procedures E51

- Timescale for repairs E51

- Planned maintenance E51

- Cyclical maintenance E51-E52

- Defence assets: Duntroon Hospital E52

- Cameron offices, Belconnen E52

Program 4 - Transport and Storage

General Issues Commercialisation of Introduction of competitive services - Public/private sector mix

- Charges

Sub-program 4.1 - Passenger transport services - Subsidy for transport services

E52-E54 E53

E53-E54

E54

205.

Sub-program 4.2 - Removal services - Loss or damage levels in removals E54-E55

- Suspension of removal contracts E55

- Reports on repositories E55

Program 5 - Surveying and Mapping Services

General Issues Review of mapping in Australia: Richardson report E55-E56

Program 6 - Protective and Custodial Services

General Issues Staffing levels E56

- Effectiveness E56

Level of Training E56

- Adequacy E56-E57

- Footscray ammunition factory E57

- Review of procedures E57

Contractor Services E57

Program 7 - Valuation Services

General Issues Commercialisation program E58

Program 8 - Publishing and Printing

General Issues Payment of accounts E58

Advertising rates for Gazette E58

Commonwealth charter of printing and publishing requirements E59

Free mailing lists E59

Sub-program 8.1 - Publishing Excessive costs of printing reports & other documents E60

Co-operation with States & Territories E60

Program 9 - Purchasing and Sales

General Issues Hercules aircraft sale E60-E62

Disposal of Nomad aircraft at Oaklands, Victoria E63

Sub-program 9.2 - Sales Army .303 rifles: status E64

Surveillance on sale of weapons E64

206.

Program 10 - Metereology

Sub-program 10.3 - Weather services Cost recovery of specialised services E64-E65

Adquacy of resources E65

Program 13 - Management of Government Records

General Issues Bicentennial involvement E65

Archival facilities in the States E65

- Inadequencies (Victoria) E65

Program 14 - Parliamentary, Information & other Services

Sub-program 14.1 - Services to Members of Parliament Electoral office progress: computers (Cleveland project) E66

- action against previous contractor E66,E67,E68 - training E66-E67

- compatibility with present equipment E66-E67 - tendering procedures E67

- Australian content of Clevelands E68

Fax machines in electoral offices E68

Sub-program 14.2 - Community recognition & symbols Supply of flags E68-E69

- effect of bicentennial E68-E69

Sub-program 14.3 - Special inquiries Royal Commission into Grain Storage, Handling and Transport: States E69

Sub-program 14.5 - Grants-in-Aid Criteria for determining grants-in-aid E69

- Lionel Murphy Foundation E69

Sub-program 14.6 - Information Co-ordination Constitutional Commission: consultants fees E70 Advertising services E70-E72

- Australia made campaign E70-E71

- Tendering process E71

National Media Liaison Service E72

- Staff members E72

- Publications E73

- Ministerial responsibility E73

- Promotion Australia E73

Program 16 - Electoral Services

General Issues (questions incorporated in Hansard) E74-E75

207.

Program 17 - Commonwealth/State Revenue Sharing

Sub-program 17.1 - Grants Commission Travel

Program 19 - Parliament House Construction Authority

E75

E75

208.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR HANSARD OF HEARINGS

Thursday, 22 October 1987

Subject Page

Chairperson's opening statement E77

Questions on Notice from Senators

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

E77-E85

Minister's opening statement

Division 230 - Administration

E86

Sub-division 01 - Running Costs - Answers to previous Questions on Notice - Armed Forces Food Science Establishment - Trends in number of apprentices

- Defence Force activities

E87 E87 E87

- Changes in Defence budget related to purchasing power E87,E111-E112

- Departmental advice on increasing efficiency - Reduction in exercises, transfers and E87-E88 deployments - Cuts in operations and capabilities - Activities to be transferred to reserves

E88 E88

E88-E89

- Limitation on posting: Effect on career structures - Kangaroo 89 E89

E89

Advance to the Minister for Finance E89-E90

Sub-division 01 - Running Costs (cont'd) - Absorption of Central Studies Establishment into Force Development and Analysis Division E90

Questions on Notice from Senator Baume E90

Sub-division 01 - Running Costs (cont'd) - Map production: comparative costs - Action to improve knowledge of strategically E90

important maritime areas - Action to remedy deficiencies of hydrographic E90 and oceanographic knowledge - Coastal surveillance

E90-E91 E91

209 .

- Development of a maritime command for coordination E91,E92

- Helicopter support for offshore counter­ terrorist operations E91

- Recommendation by House of Representatives Standing Committee on Expenditure E91-E92

- White Paper: Support of neighbours and allies - No mention in Army's objectives E92

- Navy's force structure: Amphibian capability E92

- Proposals by Army to modify HMAS Jervis Bay E92

- Amphibian capability: Lesson from Exercise Diamond Dollar E92-E93

- Offsets program E93

- Total value E93

- Purchase of trucks E93,E98

- Fulfilment of offsets obligations E93-E94

- Encouragement of union membership E94-E95

- Number of industrial disputes E95

- Cost of brochure E95

- Privileges afforded to unionists E95

- Defence contracting offices: Closures - Functions of offices E95-E96

- Staffing in Brisbane office E96

- Purchasing efficiency E96

- Ensuring fairness in tendering assessment E96 - Assessment of quality control E96-E97

- Value of contracts allocated by Brisbane office E97

- Reductions in Defence Industry Development Division E97

- Resignation rates E98

- Publication of monthly statistics E98-E99

- Areas affected E99-E100

Questions on Notice by Senator Newman

Sub-division 01 - Running Costs (cont'd) - Re-engagement bounty for the Navy - Submarine project team - Current activity - Policy to build submarines in Australia

- Upgrading performance standards - Schedule for handover of first boat - Integration of weapons system - Australian Defence Force in Fiji area - Equipment or logistical problems - Current state of review of Army webbing - Supply problems with Army boots - Australian Naval Reserve: Ab initio training - Trainee wastage: Rates and problems - Civilian personnel salaries and allowances - Trust account funding - Auditor-General's report of June 1987 - Shortage of Navy instructors

E100

E100-E101

El 01 E101 El 01 E101 E101

E101-E102

E102

E102-E103 E103

E103-E104

E104

E104-E105

210.

- Travelling and subsistence: Reasons for increase - Advertising and recruitment - Effect of personnel cuts on field force

capability

E105 El 05

E105-E106

Questions on Notice from Senator Vallentine

Sub-division 01 - Running Costs (cont'd) - Sergeant/Warrant Officer pilots for Army helicopters

- Guard and Survey services by Administrative Services: Policy - Cost to guard Russell Hill complex - Budget provision for studies

- Location of defence establishments - Procedures to allow for accelerated construction - Vice-Chief of the Defence Force'

- Education of Senior Defence Officers - Senior Officers defence college - Joint Warfare School - Department of Administrative Services

removals - Separate entries for local and overseas removals - Proposals to devolve decision-making and

responsibility in the Services - Temporary Rental Allowance - Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal - Fringe Benefits Tax - Special Reserves Allowance - Sponsorship of Cadet units - Rates for defence housing - Consultants

- Mrs H . Mayer - necessity of appointment - qualifications - ADFILS - For Defence Housing Authority - Defence Housing Authority

- Consultations with CSIRO, Dept. of Housing and Construction - Recruitment externally - Interim arrangements - Bicentennial program: Costs

Sub-division 02 - Other Services - Defence Science research - Reduction in DSTO budget

- University College at ADFA: Costs - Warnbo unexploded ordnance clearance project

E106-E107

E107

E107-E108 E108

E108

E108 E108 E108 E108

E108

E108

E108-E109 E109-E111 E109-E110 E110

E110-E111 Bill Bill

E112-E113 E112

E112-E113 E113 E113

E113 E113

E113-E114 E114

E114 E114

E114-E115

211.

Major equipment projects - Spending on personnel, operations and training

Capital procurement programs - Ml 13 - Wheeled AFVs - Mobility of Surface troops: Lesson from

Operation Diamond Dollar - New submarine program - FFGs 1 to 4

- Australian frigate program - Performance of dockyard staff - F18 Hornet - Current year allocation

- Current year delivery numbers - Squadrons equipped - Pilot resignations - PC9 aircraft - Black Hawk utility helicopters - Delivery schedule - Costs of maintenance - Project Raven communications system - Trucks - Shortages - Reports of breakdowns in Exercise

Diamond Dollar - Satellite communications - Project Parakeet - Use in Exercise Diamond Dollar - Fraud

- Australian Federal Police estimates - Training for uniformed personnel - Contracting out project management - Fill

- Commitment to update avionics - Aerial refuelling - Proposed substitution by FA18

- Lack of Harpoon missile target facility - Over-the-Horizon Radar - Programs for construction - Evaluation of airborne early warning and

control proposals - Expected sales of Australian frigates - Capability of surface combatant ('light patrol frigate 1) - Stockholding policy to sustain field

operations against low level threats - Functions to be transferred - Fuel and lubricants: reduced consumption - VIP aircraft

- Increase in flying hours - Leasing of replacement aircraft

Division 234 - Equipment and Stores

Ell 5 Ell 5

E115-E116 E116

E116 E116 E117 E117

E117

E117 E117 E117

E117-E119 E119

E119-E120 E120

E120, E121

E120-E121

E121

El 21 E121

E121-E122 E122

E122-E123

E123-E124 E123 E124 E124

E124

E124-E125 E125

E125-E126

E126-E127 E127

E127-E128

E128 E128

212.

- Air stores: major increase E128

- Foreign military sales: Rescheduling - Repairs and overhaul of equipment and stores - Mirage aircraft

Division 240 - Defence Co-operation

E128

E128-E129 E12 9

Defence co-operation projects with Fiji - Suspension - Policy advice

E129

E129-E130

Pacific patrol boat program

Division 241 - Defence Production

E13 0

Defence production personnel: Reduction E130

Williamstown Naval Dockyard - Monitoring of staff attendance - Financial statements and tendering for sale

Defence Aerospace

E130-E131 E131

- Nomad aircraft

Division 242 - Defence Housing

E131

Allocation of budget between Tindal and Western Australian bases - Provision of extra funding - Provision for ex-Butterworth personnel

Repairs and maintenance: Reduction

E131 E132

E132-E133 E133

Defence Housing Board - Representation of service spouses

Division 245 - Defence Facilities

E133-E134

Sub-division 1 - Construction, Acquisition and Consultants - Consultants engaged by Administrative Services: procurement of local consultants

- Duntroon hospital: Provision for work to be E134-E135

done

- Mine Warfare Systems Centre - AFE tank wash facility - Puckapunyal - Facilities in north and north-west

E135 E135 E135

- Requirement to finance E135

Questions on Notice from Senator Newman

DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

E135-E136

Chairman's opening statement E136

Minister's opening statement E136

213.

Program 1 - Heritage

Sub-program 1.1 - Land for Aboriginals - Presentation of Estimates - Performance indicators - Accountability to Parliament

- Emphasis on Aboriginal women - Auditor-General's 1987 report - Projected salaries blowout - Higher duties allowance - Reorganisational proposals - Development of a compact/treaty - Consultation process

- NAC replacement - Reduction in funds to Aboriginal Land Commissioner - Aboriginal Benefits Trust Account: Status - Land for Aboriginals program

Sub-program 1.2 - Living Area Excisions - Living area excisions

Sub-program 1.3 - Heritage Protection - Preservation and protection of cultural property

Sub-program 1.4 - Heritage Program Support - Explanation of duties

Program 2 - Public Affairs

Sub-program 2.1 - Promotion and Development of Aboriginal Art and Culture - Objectives

E137-E140 E137

E137-E139 E139-E140 E140 E140-E141

E140-E141 E141-E144 E141-E144 E142-E143 E142-E143

E144-E145 E145

El 45-El 46

E146

E146-E147

E147

E147

Sub-program 2.2 - Broadcasting and Communications - Objectives - Aboriginal women

Sub-program 2.3 - Public Awareness - Objectives

Sub-program 2.4 - Institute of Aboriginal Studies - Project monitoring - Feasibility of purchasing premises

Sub-program 2.5 - Office of Aboriginal Women - Project description and cost

Sub-program 2.6 - Registrar of Aboriginal Corporations - Review of Aboriginal organisations involved with fraud or misappropriation

E147-E148 E148

E148

E148 E148

E148-E149

El 49

214.

Sub-program 2 . 7 - Public Affairs Program Support - National consultative program E149

- NAC replacement E149

- Cost of previous bodies E149-E150

- Bicentennial component E150

Program 3 - Social and Legal Servicer

Sub-program 3.1 - Health - Capital costs E150

- Policy on equipment replacement E150

Sub-program 3.2 - Substance Abuse - Aims E150

Sub-program 3.3 - Recreation - Capital costs E150

Sub-program 3.4 - Social Support - Activities/projects E150

Sub-program 3.5 - Law and Justice - Increase in imprisonment rates: Reasons E151

- Aboriginal Legal Aid Service E151

Sub-program 3.6 - Social and Legal Services Program Support - Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre: Status of review E151

Program 4 - Community Development Program

Sub-program 4.1 - Training - Fund allocations E151

Sub-program 4.2 - Employment - CDEP family assistance package E151

Sub-program 4.3 - Education - Aims E152

- Payments to States E152

Sub-program 4.4 - Housing - Differing needs E152

- Aboriginal Hostels Ltd E152

Sub-program 4.5 - Community Infrastructure - Capital costs E152-E153

- Maralinga compensation claims E153

- Proportion allocated to homelands or outstation movement E153

215.

Sub-program 4.6 - Community Development Program support - Explanation of program and duties - Appropriation for Secretary of the Department

under Remuneration Tribunals Act 1973 - Average salary cost for community development program

- Bird case: Fraudulent misappropriation by officer of ADC

Aboriginal Development Commission

Program 1.0 - Economic Independence

Sub-program 1.1 - Small Business Funding Scheme - Reconciliation of figures E155

- Definition of small business - New projects, 1986-87 - Need for high maintenance - Housing stock by age - Audits

- Bird case - Discussions with Commonwealth Bank - Financial management and improvement program - Small Business Joint Funding Pilot Scheme - Definitions: Urban/rural - Cost per job - Cost per project

Sub-program 1.2 - Enterprise Development Scheme - Program efficiency - Employment of Aboriginal managers - Number of jobs created or maintained - Aboriginal Art Australia (formerly Enada

Holdings Pty Ltd) - Level of funding - Auditors' report - Comparison with Aboriginal Arts and

Crafts Ltd - Company directors - Shareholders - Profitability - Rationalisation of pastoral properties

- Managerial positions filled by Aborigines - Provision for bad debts - Lack of training packages - Use of consultants for training needs - Recruiting suitable staff for remote

areas

- Experience of senior ADC staff in private enterprise - Increase in salaries and related expenses

E153

E153

E154

E154-E155, E167-E16 9

E156, E164 El 56 El 56 El 56 E156 El 57 El 57 El 57 E157

E158 E158 E158

E158 E158 E158

E158-E160 E158 E158

E158-E159 E159 E159 E159 E15 9

E159-E16 0 E161 E161 E161

E161

E161

E161-E162

216.

Program 2.0 - Social Advancement

Aboriginal Land Register E162

- List of properties E162

- Land acquisition policy E162-E163

Sub-program 2.2 - The Provision of Social Facilities - List of projects funded E163

- Future need for social facilities E163

- Reduction in the effectiveness of scheme E163

- Who benefits it? E163-E164

Program 3.0 - Home Ownership

Housing organisation funding scheme E164-E165

- Responsibility for construction E164-E165

- Funds for repairs and maintenance E165

- ADC/DAA housing needs survey: cost E165

- Housing for campers and dwellers E165

- Level of funding to organisations that delivers services to building E165

- O'Donohue survey (1983-84) E166

Program 4.0 - Rental Accommodation

Sub-program 4.2 - Housing Support Services E166

- Payment of repairs and maintenance E166

Sub-program 5.1 - Management Advisory Services - Mechanisms for evaluating consultancies E166

- Criteria for allocation of funds E166

- Bad debts/losses E166

- Guarantees for commercial lending E166

Sub-program 5.2 - Training Advisory Services - Qualifications of training co-ordinators E166

Program 6 - Corporate Services

Criteria for administrative efficiency E167

Sub-program 6.1 - Executive Services - Misappropriation of funds: Bird case E167-E169

Review of procedures to deal with fraud E169

- Price Waterhouse audit E169

Identical nature of 1986-87 appropriation and expenditure figures E169

217.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR HANSARD OF HEARINGS

Wednesday, 28 October 1987

Subject Page

DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES

Chairman's opening statement E171

Sub-program 9.2 - Sales Disposal of Hercules aircraft - Extensions of time given to Messrs Ford and Vlahos - Confidential nature of documents - Number of aircraft for which Commonwealth

E171-E174 El 82-El 83

E173-E174,El 81

received payment - Number of aircraft which left Australia - Aircraft remaining in Australia: Status - Costs associated with aircraft parked in US - Matters relating to Ethiopian Hercules

- AFP inquiry on spare parts - Procedures relating to approval of contractors - Prevention of fraud

- Sale of aircraft to a South American country - Sale of aircraft to France: Mr Hawke's alleged

E174 El 74 E17 4

E17 4-E17 5,El 80 E175-E176, El 80-El 81 E176-E17 7,E17 9

E177-E178 E178-E179 E179-E180

association with Ford and Vlahos - Recent proposals to dispose of aircraft El 81-El 82 E184-E186

Program 16 - Electoral Services E186

Provision of electoral rolls El86

- Microfiche E187

- Computer usable El87

- Timing E187

- Sales El88

Action taken on envelopes returned by Members of Parliament E188

Need for full name and address for enrolment E188-E189

'Spot on the Earth' method of registration El89

Addresses comprising 'Post Office' only: Concern checking of names registering just prior to an election E189

218.

- Exercise involving cross-checking State registers of births and deaths E189

Certified lists E190

- Cost to public under Freedom of Information El90

Cost of 1987 election - Elements of 1 Miscellaneous' component E190

- Particulars of 1 Training of polling officials' El90

Use of special pen to mark off names E190

Number of persons who failed to vote E190-E191

Prosecutions - Percentages E191

- 'Administrative' E191

Significant factors in failure to vote E191-E192

- Pens El 91

- Technical defects in computer system El91

Use of electronic scanners E191-E192

'Roll cleansing' before previous redistribution E192

Habitation reviews E192-E193

Cost of Section 282 E193

Satisfaction with system as envisaged in 1983-84 E193-E194 - Examples of various seats El93-E194

- Graphs of each division E194

Electoral Pocket Book E194

Aboriginal education program El95

- Involvement of other agencies E195

- Special package E195

Pamphlet: 'Aboriginal votes count' E195

Political neutrality of commission officers E195-E196

Public Service Act employment E196

- Numbers classified as politically sensitive El96 - Evidence of political activity El96

Regionalisation of divisional returning officers E197 - Efficiency scrutinies El97

Returning officers' private arrangements with local councils E197-E198

- Circular sent to returning officers E198

219.

Program 1 - Parliament House Construction Authority

Sweetheart deals - Plumbers dispute (February 1987)

- Memorandum from Matthew Hall Pty Ltd - Government's industrial relations policy - Role of the Authority

E198-E202

El98-E201,E203, E217-E218 E199-E200 El 9 8-El 9 9 E201-E202

Site-related disputes - Health and safety stoppages

E202-E203 E202-E203

Restrictive work practices - Co st

E203-E204 E203-E204

Functions of construction manager E204-E205

Opening date - Schedule for hand-over

E205 E205

Liability for cost to contractors

Security system

E205

E205-E206, E223-E224

Annual report 1986-87 E206,E224

Project Costs E203,E206-E224

- Non-building items E207-E208

- User-initiated changes in the post-construction phase service - Fast tracking variations and costs

- Design-oriented variations - Cost control and cost planning - McCain report (CCAG)

- Design of chamber seats and desks - BLF compensation arrangements - Speaker's chair arrangements - Increase in number of contracts - Additional requirements - Contingency allowance - Industrial disputes and the November 1983

arrangement - Nor-Wood Forest Products contract - Procedures for the purchase of materials - Tax problems with contractors - Quality assurance program - Operations and maintenance - Agreement with architect - Construction manager's fee - Executive wing

E208

E209-E210, E217,E222 E209-E210 E210-E211 E211-E212,

E214-E216, E220-E221 E212-E213 E215 E215-E216

E216 E216

E217-E217

E217-E218 E218

E218-E219 E219 E219

E219-E223 E220-E221 E221 E223

220.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

221

; "· v. . ,·.

·'" '· - - . .

- "' · f '·* ' :

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- - ·

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5 - " · · . > ' · « = J , ; : 7

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 V

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 21 September 1987, the Senate referred to the

Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1988, the

Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1988 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended

30 June 1987, relating to the following departments:

Social Security The Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and

Territories

2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for the Environment and the Arts (Senator the Hon. Graham Richardson) and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings, documents tabled during public hearings or provided with additional

information, Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee and an index of issues raised during the public

hearings are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1987-88 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1987-88. Additional information

provided to the Committee will be tabled separately in the Senate and be available from the Senate Table Office.

223.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to

the following matters arising from its consideration of

the Estimates:

DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY

Program Budgeting

The Committee notes that the Department's Explanatory

Notes have for the first time been arranged in a program budgeting format during a time of major change in social

security programs. The Notes reflect an increased emphasis

on four broad objectives:

. needs based provision of income support

payments,

. encouragement of individual effort and

enterprise,

. increased assistance to the needy, and . action to identify and penalise those who abuse the social security system.

The Department indicated to the Committee that it will be placing a high priority on refining its program

budgeting methodology and performance during the present financial year. The Committee will be monitoring

developments by the Department to ensure that no difficulties arise with the use of generalised terminology in the description of program objectives and performance indicators.

Power to obtain information - s.164 of the Social Security Act

The Committee was informed that the Social Security Act empowers the Department to seek information about its clients for the purposes of establishing the correctness

224.

of payments and initiating recovery action. However, if a person was overpaid and leaves the Department as a client, there were limited recovery options open to the

Department. The Act was amended earlier this year to widen the powers available to the Department to acquire

information about people who were no longer clients for the purpose of recovering outstanding amounts.

The Act provides that the Department can approach an ex-client’s private employer and demand details of the ex-client's current financial position and income sources.

The employer is required by the Act to provide such information, subject to heavy penalty provisions.

The Committee was concerned that in an effort to recover overpayments there was a potential for

difficulties to arise in the administration of the Act,

particularly in relation to privacy questions. However, the Department indicated that as the legislation has only recently come into effect, it is still in the process of

setting down guidelines on how to apply the legislation.

The Department has been corresponding with a number of groups, including the New South Wales Privacy

Committee, and advised that it will take into account any comments from that body before determining the guidelines.

The Committee looks forward to implementation of a

set of guidelines which will balance the privacy questions with the ability to recover overpayments.

225 .

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARTS, SPORT, THE ENVIRONMENT, TOURISM

AND TERRITORIES

Expo '88 - Construction of Australian Pavilion

The Committee was informed that the Australian

pavilion, in terms of its construction and operation, has a budget of approximately $18 m. However, at the end of

the Exposition the pavilion will be dismantled and sold at

scrap value to offset partially its operating cost.

The Department indicated that the pavilion has been designed by a private firm of architects under contract to

the Commonwealth, and the construction is managed by the

Department of Administrative Services, formerly the

Department of Housing and Construction. The Committee accepts that these procedures are in accordance with

accepted administrative practice.

In evidence it was stated that the pavilion "says

something about Australia. It was deliberately designed that way to make a statement, to be a unique building

...it really is a very significant exhibition and also a very significant exhibit that the Commonwealth is putting in. The building is custom designed for that exhibit". (Hansard, 8 October 1987, pF48).

The Committee appreciates that there is a requirement to dismantle the pavilion at the conclusion of Expo in order to vacate the site for later redevelopment. However,

on the evidence presented to it, the Committee felt that greater consideration could have been given to designing a

226.

building which could have been used for future exhibitions

within Australia or relocated to serve some alternative purpose after the Exposition.

Accreditation for Drug Testing Athletes

In its May 1987 Report Estimates Committee D noted that following the revocation by the International Olympic

authorities of accreditation of the Royal Brisbane

Hospital, Australia no longer had an internationally

accredited testing facility for drugs in samples supplied by athletes.

The Committee was pleased to hear from the Australian Sports Commission that the Australian Government Analytical Laboratories in Sydney will be the centralised laboratories for drug testing for athletes in Australia. As the International Olympic Committee undertakes an

exhaustive period of assessment and review to satisfy itself that laboratories seeking accreditation can fully meet its standards, full accreditation could take some months, if not years. The Committee hopes there will be an

expeditious resolution to this situation.

Australian Film, Television and Radio School (AFTRS)

The Committee heard evidence from AFTRS concerning

Government funding and other sources of revenue for the School. AFTRS is attempting to increase external financial support by mounting a major sponsorship campaign. The

Director of AFTRS advised the Committee that AFTRS's fund raising efforts are severely hampered by an anomaly in s.78 of the Income Tax Assessment Act which does not

recognise donations or gifts to the School as tax

deductions.

227 .

As AFTRS is recognised by the Commonwealth Tertiary

Education Commission as an educational institution and most other educational institutions are covered by s.78 of

the Act, the Committee believes that this apparently

anomalous situation should be examined.

"The Return of Captain Invincible"

Estimates Committee D raised matters associated with

the film "The Return of Captain Invincible" in its May

1985 Report and at subsequent Estimates hearings. The Finance and Government Operations Committee tabled a Report on the Circumstances surrounding the Various Court

Actions Relating to the Film The Return of Captain Invincible on 5 June 1987.

The Committee notes that the matter is still

unresolved and that court actions are continuing. The Minister assured the Committee that the Government will be presenting its response to the Finance and Government Operations Committee's Report later this year.

National Film and Sound Archive

The National Film and Sound Archive (NFSA) was established in 1984 and is primarily responsible for the

collection and preservation of those materials which form the moving image and recorded sound heritage of Australia. The dimension of the NFSA1s task is indicated not only by the volume of material produced over one hundred years,

but also by the physical state of much of the material, which was recorded on chemically unstable matter such as nitrate film or acetate discs. The finite lifespan of this

228.

material requires NFSA to locate unfound material in order to save that material and to preserve and copy the vast

amount of material already in the collection.

The Last Film Search has been a significant step in locating material. The major problem now confronting NFSA is preservation. The Report of the National Film and Sound

Archive Advisory Committee, Time in Our Hands, outlined in some detail the scale of the preservation problem. The following figures, extracted from the Explanatory Notes, p 388, further accentuate the scope of this problem.

Type of material Qty of collection Qty preserved

% of collectio untreated

Nitrate film (pre 1952)

Acetate film Acetate sound recordings

12m feet

80m feet

20,000

1.2m feet 90%

1.6m feet (apx) 97%

10% 90%

As the decaying nitrate film has only a limited life time, the NFSA estimates that all nitrate film will need to be copied by the year 2000. To achieve this objective, films have been graded in an order of stability and an assessment is being made for an order of preservation. The NFSA is endeavouring to provide as much of its resources

as possible in the preservation area. It will be using cold storage in an attempt to delay the process of film

deterioration.

The Committee believes that consideration should be given to providing additional resources for the NFSA's preservation activities to ensure that by the year 2000

229.

expressed fears are not realised and that a valuable part

of Australia's film and sound heritage is not lost

forever.

Evidence by Witnesses on Property Matters

The Committee raised questions concerning the

following property matters:

. Future use of the Australian Pavilion at Expo

'88

. construction of new premises for the National

Institute of Dramatic Art

. construction of the Australian National Maritime Museum in Sydney . disposal of Allambee Nursing Home, ACT

On several occasions departmental officers appearing

before the Committee could not answer adequately questions relating to these properties or referred the Committee to

another Department or agency that had responsibility for

the construction, acquisition or disposal of the property.

The Committee appreciates that under administrative

arrangements primary responsibility for the acquisition, construction or disposal of property may be vested in the Department of Administrative Services, the former Department of Housing and Construction or some other

agency. However, the Committee believes that officers from

the client Department should be conversant with details concerning the progress of the particular projects within their area of responsibility.

230.

GENERAL

4. The Committee expresses its appreciation of assistance given by the Minister for the Environment the Arts, Senator the Hon. Graham Richardson, and

officers of the various departments and authorities

appeared before the Committee.

John Black Chairman

November 1987

the and the who

231.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

RESERVATION BY SENATORS PUPLICK, REID AND VANSTONE

During its hearings, the Committee raised with two

Statutory Commissions their participation in the political

activities associated with the General Election on 11 July

1987 .

In relation to the Australian Sports Commission, the Committee was informed that the Commission had taken

outside legal advice after intimating that it might take legal action against the then Shadow Minister for Sport who had announced, as part of the Opposition's election

policy, that the Commission would be abolished and had, in the process, made criticisms of the Commission. As the Commission had full access to the advice of the Australian

Government Solicitor, but chose not to use this service, on the alleged grounds that the matter was "urgent", it

can only be concluded that this represents an attempt by the Commission to involve itself in the election campaign in a political and partisan fashion.

In relation to the Australian Film Commission the Committee took evidence from its Chief Executive. He

admitted, that together with the Chairman of the

Commission, he had sought to play an active, public role in the election campaign opposing and criticising the policies of the Federal Opposition which called for the abolition of the Commission.

232.

Both the Australian Sports Commission and the

Australian Film Commission were designated for abolition

by the Opposition during the federal election campaign. Senior officers of both Commissions involved themselves in the partisan controversies of the election campaign,

actively and publicly supporting one Party's policies against another's.

These senior officers are officers of the Australian Public Service and they participated in the election campaign, not as private citizens (which is entirely their

right) but as senior public servants.

We regard this behaviour as quite improper and

totally at variance with the apolitical and non-partisan standards of behaviour which are properly to be expected and required of senior public servants acting in their

official capacity.

(CHRISTOPHER PUPLICK) (MARGARET REID) (AMANDA VANSTONE)

233.

"

DOCUMENTS TABLED DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS

OR

PROVIDED WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

TO THE COMMITTEE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

235

DOCUMENTS TABLED DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS OR PROVIDED WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO THE COMMITTEE

The following is a list of documents tabled during the public hearings or provided to the Committee with additional information. The documents have been included as an attachment to the tabled copy of the Committee's Report to the Senate.

Department of Social Security

Equal Employment Opportunity -Proof Departmental Policy Statement.

Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories

Tourism Overseas Promotion Scheme (TOPS) - Claims paid in 1985-86 and 1986-87.

Computer figures relating to tourism

infrastructue developments 1985-87.

Submission on boundaries for the proposed World Heritage nomination of the Wet Tropics Region of North East Queensland, by the Australian Heritage Commission, dated October 1987.

ACT Administration -Community Development Fund Grants 1986-87 Grants under the National Tree Program

236.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

237

·>

THE SENATE

Thursday, 8 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 12.36 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 6.

2. RESOLUTIONS: The Secretary reported Resolutions of the Senate dated 22 and 24 September 1987 relating to the appointment and membership of Estimates Committees and the reference of Particulars of Proposed Expenditure

1987-88 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1986-87.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Black was nominated by Senator Cooney. There being no further nominations, Senator Black was declared elected and thereupon took the Chair.

4. AUTHORISATION TO PUBLISH DOCUMENTS: On the motion of Senator Cooney the following resolution was agreed to:

The Committee authorises the publication of all documents presented to it in the course of its hearings, and authorises the publication of written replies and

other documents which may be forwarded to it after hearings have been

completed.

5. MANNNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to proceed with the examination of Departmental Estimates in the following order:

239.

Thursday 8 October Department of Social Security Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories

Program 2 - Tourism Program 3 - Antarctic Program 1 - Sport and Recreation Program 4 - Territories Program 10 - National Science and Technology Centre

Thursday 22 October 1987 Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories

Program 5 - Arts Program 6 - Film and Television Program 7 - Heritage Program 8 - Conservation and Environment Program 9 - Corporate Services Program 11 - ACT Administration If required Friday, 30 October 1987 had also been scheduled as a sitting day.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.45 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Black, Coates, Cooney, Reid and Vanstone. An apology was received from Senator Puplick.

CONFIRMED;

John Black Chairman

240.

THE SENATE

Thursday, 8 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 2.03 pm in Senate Committee Room No.6. Senator Black took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Estimates.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY: In attendance, Senator the Honourable Graham Richardson, Minister for the

Environment and the Arts, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Social Security Mr D. Volker, Secretary Mr B. Godfrey, First Assistant Secretary, (Resource Management)

Mr V. Rogers, First Assistant Secretary (Performance and Control) Mr J. Humphreys, First Assistant Secretary (Benefits Delivery) Mr R. Emerton, A/g First Assistant Secretary

(Facilities) Mr M. Douglas, First Assistant Secretary (Legislation and Review) Dr O. Donald, Assistant Secretary (Resources) Ms S. Tongue, A/g Assistant Secretary (Child Support) Mr A. Herscovitch, A/g Assistant Secretary (Policy and

Research) Mr T. Murphy, A/g Assistant Secretary (Benefits Control) Ms M. Kilpatrick, A/g Assistant Secretary (Special Client Services) Mr J. Moore, A/g Director (Finance Estimates)

Mr J. Flick, A/g Director (Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders)

Office of the Commissioner for Employees' Compensation Mr W Lewisson, Assistant Commissioner (Management and Operations)

Department of Finance Mr B. Lennon Chief Finance Officer

The Minister made an introductory statement.

241.

The Chairman called on the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditures proposed for these programs are contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure

documents:

Program 1 - Income Security Entitlements Program 2 - Income Security Delivery Program 3 - Corporate Services Program 4 - Office of the Commissioner for Employees' Compensation.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of Social Security, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OP PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF THE ARTS, SPORT, THE ENVIRONMENT, TOURISM AND TERRITORIES: In attendance, Senator the Honourable Graham

Richardson, Minister for the Environment and the Arts, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories Mr A. Blunn Secretary

Mr P. Galvin Associate Secretary

Arts and Environment

Mr B. Zanetti A/g First Assistant Secretary

Corporate Management Division

Mr D. Mazitelli A/g First Assistant Secretary Sport and Recreation Division Mr J. Ferguson First Assistant Secretary

Tourism Division

Mr R. Moncur A/g Director

Antarctic Division

Mr S. Arnaudon A/g First Assistant Secretary

External Territories Division

Ms A. Reynolds Assistant Secretary,

Facilities and Events Branch

Australian Institute of Sport: Mr R. Harvey Director

Dr R. Smith Deputy Director

Mr R . Hobson Assistant Director, Corporate

Services

Mr J. Barker Manager, Finance

Australian Sports Commission: Mr G. Hartung General Manager

Mr P. Crosswhite Assistant General Manager Mr M. Weeks Director,

Management and Planning

Australian Exhibit Organisation: Mr K. Fairbrother Executive Director

242. .

National Science & Technology Centre Dr M. Gore Director

Mr J . Ryan Deputy Director

Tourism Australia Mr J . Rowe Mr A. Thirlwell Mr J. Brace

Managing Director Director, Marketing Operations Director, Budget & Planning

Department of Finance Mr J. Anderson Chief Finance Officer

The Minister made an introductory statement.

The Chairman called on the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditures proposed for these programs are

contained in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents:

Program 2 Program 3 Program 1 Program 4 Program 10

Tourism Antarctic Sport and Recreation

Territories National Science and Technology Centre.

The Committee having concluded its consideration of Program 10 suspended its examination of the Department's Estimates.

5. ADJOURNMENTS The Committee adjourned at 10.26 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Black, Coates, Cooney, Puplick, Reid and Vanstone.

CONFIRMED:

John Black Chairman

243.

THE SENATE

Thursday, 22 October 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 11.56 am in Senate Committee Room No. 6. Senator Black took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1987-88 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1986-87 - DEPARTMENT OF THE ARTS, SPORT, THE ENVIRONMENT, TOURISM AND TERRITORIES: In attendance, Senator the

Honourable Graham Richardson, Minister for the Environment and the Arts, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories Mr A. Blunn, Secretary

Mr A. Kerr, Deputy Secretary

Mr G. Dempster, First Assistant Secretary Corporate Management Division Mr B. Zanetti, Assistant Secretary

Portfolio Co-ordination Branch

Ms K. Dal Bon, A/g First Assistant Secretary

Arts, Film and Heritage

Mr R. McArthur, Assistant Secretary

Heritage Branch

Mr N. Quinn, First Assistant Secretary

Environment Contaminants and Co-ordination Branch

Mr E. Anderson, A/g First Assistant Secretary Conservation & Environment Assessment Division Mr D. Gascoine, First Assistant Secretary

Rainforest Unit

Mr W. Fletcher, Director

Rainforest Unit

Dr R. Boden, Director

Australian National Botanic Gardens

Dr P. Bridgewater, Director Bureau of Flora and Fauna

Mr J. Sands Assistant Secretary

Conservation Branch

244.

Australia Council: Mr M. Bourke, General Manager

Mr R. Taylor, Director

Financial Advisory Division

Australian Film Commission: Mr K. Williams, Chief Executive

Mr B Gittings, General Manager

Corporate Services

Ms S. Sorenson, Finance Officer

Australian Film, Television and Radio School: Ms A. Deveson, Director

Mr T. Baxter, Head, Management Services

National Museum of Australia: Dr D. F. McMichael, Director Mr B. Palmer, Assistant Director

Resource Management

Australian National Maritime Museum: Mr S. Sergi, Director

Ms D. Taylor, Manager Resources

Australian National Gallery: Mr J. Mollison, Director

Mr G. Andrews, Administrator

Mr A. Kelly, Finance Manager

National Film & Sound Archive: Mr G. Gilmour, Director

National Library of Australia: Mr W. Horton, Director General

Mr P. Hawker, Assistant Director-General Co-ordination & Management Division

Australian Heritage Commission: Mr D. C. Griffiths, Director

Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority: Mr G . Kelleher, Chairman

Mr B. Linehan, Finance Officer

Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service: Professor Ovington, Director Mr M. Hill, Assistant Director

Mr J . Crennan, Principal Executive Officer

245.

Office of the Supervising Scientist for the Alligator Rivers Region: Mr R. M. Fry, Supervising Scientist

Mr J. Short, Head Management Services

Branch

ACT Administration: Mr J. Turner,

Ms L. Webb,

Mr L. Sorbello,

Mr R. Gallagher,

Mr G. Gaskill, Mr S. Hunter,

Mr M. Woods,

Mr P. Kearns,

Mr I. Keightley, Mr P. Guild,

Mr T. Waters,

Mr G. Cartwright, Mr M. Webb,

Deputy Secretary, ACT Operations First Assistant Secretary, Community Services Division A/g First Assistant Secretary Legislation & Regulation Division First Assistant Secretary, Development General Manager, ACTION Director, Secretariat, Canberra Development Board A/g First Assistant Secretary Resouces and Co-ordination Assistant Secretary, Education & Training Branch Director, Public Finance Assistant Secretary, Business Practices Branch A/g Assistant Secretary, Housing Branch Director, Budgets Assistant Director, ACT Finances

ACT Office of Further Education: Mr N. Fisher, Interim Director

Mr R. Allen, First Assistant Secretary

National Capital Development Commission: Mr B. Browning, Mr A. Phillips, Mr G. Campbell,

ACT Health Authority: Mr J. Bissett, Mr I. Todd,

Mr D. Steele,

Ms Sim Sung,

ACT Schools Authority: Mr E. Willmot, Dr T. Butterfield,

Miss T. Reilly,

Associate Commissioner A/g Secretary & Manager Chief Planner

General Manager Assistant General Manager, Policy Planning & Resources Management Director,

Resource Management Assistant Director, Resources Group

Chief Education Officer Director, Resources Group Principal Executive Officer,

Finance Section

246.

Department of Finance: Mr K. Vernon, Mr T. Monson, Chief Finance Officer

Chief Finance Officer

The Committee resumed its examination of the Department's Estimates. The Chairman called on the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditures proposed for these programs are contained

in the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure documents:

3.

4.

Program 5 Program 6 Program 7 Program 8

Program 9 Program 11

Arts Film and Television Heritage Conservation and Environment Corporate Services ACT Administration

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed expenditure for the Department of the Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.40 pm.

ATTENDANCE: and Vanstone

247.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 4

Tuesday, 3 November 1987

MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 9.42pm in Senate Committee Room No. 7. Senator Black took the Chair.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Meetings held on 8 and 22 October (Nos 1 to 3) were confirmed.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate.

The Committee agreed to the draft Report, subject to the inclusion of a number of

amendments.

Senator Puplick indicated that, in accordance with Standing Order 36AB(17), a reservation would be added to the Report by Senators

Puplick, Reid and Vanstone.

OTHER BUSINESS: The Committee noted the offer by the Department of Social Security to provide an inspection of the Canberra Computer Centre, Kent Street, Deakin.

ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.12pm.

ATTENDANCE: Senators Black, Coates, Cooney, Puplick and Vanstone. An apology was received from Senator Reid.

CERTIFIED COl

jJohn Black Chairman

INDEX OF ISSUES

RAISED AT THE

COMMITTEE'S PUBLIC HEARINGS

THURSDAY, 8 OCTOBER 1987

THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER 1987

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

249.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

Issues raised during Committee hearings held on 8 October 1987 and 22 October 1987. (page references, Hansard, Estimates Committee F)

DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY

1.1 Income Security for the Aged. Poverty traps Minimising disincentives to save for retirement tapered income test 3­

1.3 Income Security for widows and sole parents. Verification of de-facto status Desertion 'without just cause1 4­

- Classification of officers determining 'just cause 1 Class A Widows' Pension - notification of alterations to entitlements 5-

Sole Parent students

1.4 Income Security for Children Family package and income supplement 7-8

Child Support Agency and maintenance for childre 8-9 Verifying paternity 9

Maintenance from non-custodial parent 9-10 Child Support Agency legislation 10

1.5 Income security for the unemployed and the sick Job Search Allowance 10

- test 10-11

- and unemployment benefits 11

'Tighter admission procedures' 11-12

- classifications of determining officers 12-13 Invalid pensions and sickness benefits 13

Unemployment and sickness benefits 13-14

Classifications of determining officers 14 Verification of sickness benefit entitlements 14 Commonality between unemployed and sick persons 14-15 Discontinuance of benefits - State by State 15

Mobile review teams 15

Invalid pensions 15-16

- and sickness pensions 16

Savings resulting from introduction of Job Search Allowance 16

1.6 Other Related Payments Payments relating to the conspiracy case 16

251.

-■j < d in in in»t»· £*u>co

PROGRAM 2: INCOME SECURITY DELIVERY 2.1 Regional Network 'National quality assurance package' 16

Access to external records about clients 17-18 Maintenance income and income testing 18

DSS Regional Office in Tuggeranong, ACT 18

Publicity Strategies 19

2.4 Investigation and Recovery Initiatives to reduce fraud and overpayment 19 Under-payment of beneficiaries 20

Fraud 20

Failure to notify changed circumstances 21

Prosecutions 21

Overpayments due to false identity 21

Rate of overpayment and detection 22

Rate of recovery 22

Auditor-General1s report 22-23

Stratplan 23

DSS computer facilities in Deakin, ACT 24

Mobile review team activities 24

Re-instated payments 24

Overseas recipients of benefits 24-25

2.8 Central Policy Monitoring Development and Review Research and Special Studies 25

PROGRAM 3 - CORPORATE SERVICES 3.1 Corporate Management Review Unit 25

Compensation and legal expenses 25

PRISM, ADMIN, NHRIS and FINMIS 25

Estimates presentation 25

Industrial disputation 25-26

- consequences on payments 26

Sick leave and RSI 26

Redeployment of Staff 26-27

Sexual harassment 27

Equal Employment Opportunity 27

PROGRAM 4 - OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER FOR EMPLOYEES’ COMPENSATION

4.1 Commonwealth Employees' Compensation - Claims Determination Proposed changes to Commonwealth employees' compensation legislation 27-28

- consultations with ACTU 28

- consultations with Commonwealth retirees' groups 28

Common Law rights 29

Media speculation on proposed legislation 29-30 Rehabilitation and special occupations 30

Consultations 30

252 .

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARTS, SPORT, THE ENVIRONMENT, TOURISM AND TERRITORIES.

PROGRAM 2: TOURISM 2.1 Industry Assistance and Marketing TOPS - applications and grants 32-34

- funding disruption and forward commitment arrangements 34-35

- reasons for discontinuance 35

- forward commitment arrangements 35

- unapproved claims 35-36

Steel Regions Assistance Plan 36

Participation in Berlin Trade Fair 36

- and TOPS 36-37

Discretionary power of Minister 37

Australian Tourist Commission 37

- relocation of offices to Sydney 37

- Kennedy inquiry recommendations 37-38 - relocation of offices 38

- tourism research 38

- State and Territory contributions 38

- research co-ordination 38

- industrial matters - Kennedy inquiry 39 - relocation of ATC offices 39

- - redundancy and severance payment 39-41 - budget allocation 41

- relationship with the States 41

- cost of overseas offices 41

- and Departmental activities 41-42

- private sector financial support 42

- Bureau of Tourism Research 42

- activities and cost 42

- product database study 42

- public access to results 42

- Arrival Fee 42

- responsibility for collection 42 - Additional flight capacity into Australia during the Bicentennial 43

- Board Members 43-44

- industry representation 44

2.2 Industry environment Depreciation rate 44-45

Cordell survey 45

1 Tourism Training in Australia 1 - recommendations 45

Tourism related courses at TAFE's 45

Sprokreef report - recommendations 45-47

2.3 Tourism promotions Expo 88 - NSW financial arrangements 47

- Commonwealth involvement 47

- Commonwealth Pavillion 47-49

- Australian made material 49

- Australian made equipment 49

253.

PROGRAM 3: ANTARCTIC. 3.1 Policy and planning Malaysian initiative and World park 49-50

proposal CCAMLR arrangements 50

Antartic seals convention 50

Measurement of Ozone concentrations 50-51

Sites of scientific interest 51

Krill harvesting 51-52

'Nella Dan1 52

Elephant seals 52-53

PROGRAM 1: SPORT AND RECREATION 1.1 Sport Australian Institute of Sport - Dr Cheffers resignation 53

- Decentralisation of programs 53

- Adelaide cricket facility 53

- Elitist philosophy 53

- Adelaide cycling facility 53-54

- Rugby Union 54-55

- Australian Rules 55

- Athletes' Testing Laboratory 55

Australian Sports Commission - Legal advice on Opposition comments 55-56 - Seoul Olympics 56

- Winter Olympics 56-57

- Winter Sports - Sports Aid Foundation

1.3 People with disabilities Olympics for disabled persons 57-58

Programs for disabled children

PROGRAM 4: TERRITORIES Division 146 - External Territories .1 - Running Costs Bowen Island, Jervis Bay 58-59

Ashmore and Cartier Islands 59

Historic shipwrecks 59-60

Division 811 - CAPITAL WORKS AND SERVICES .7 - External Territories - building, works, plant and equipment Wind driven electricity generators 60

PROGRAM 10: NATIONAL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY CENTRE Cost 60

- Contributions from Australian Bicentennial Authority 60

- Gift from Japanese Government 60

- Australia - Japan Business Co-operation Committee 60-61

- Government expenditure 61

Completion Date 61

Original anticipation costs 61

254.

PROGRAM 5: ARTS 5.1 Policy and Co-ordination Botsman report 64

- and the Joint Liaison Committee 65

Departmental Contribution to Bicentennial program 65 - advisors to Bicentennial Authority 65

5.2 Artbank - Artbank and the New Parliament House 66

5.3 National Institute of Dramatic Art Completion of new building 66

- original and final expenditure 66

- reasons for escalation in building cost 66 - and Department of Housing and Construction 66-67 Academic enrolments in 1988 67

5.4 Public Lending Right Scheme Effect of Delay in Proclaiming Legislation 67 Benefits of a Statutory Scheme 67

Previous Administrative Arrangements 67-68

5.6 Australia Council Reorganisation of the Council 68

Administration costs compared with grants 68 Data Collection on the Arts 68

'Artforce1 68-69

Council submission on taxation and artists 69 Arts and Taxation publication 69

Percentage of ticket price to subsidy 69

Grants and sponsorship 69-70

Art and working life program 70

PROGRAM 6: FILM AND TELEVISION 6.2 Investment incentives for Australian film production 'Captain Invincible' 70-71

Effect of May economic statement on Industry 71 Levels of imported film 71

6.3 Australian Film Commission Write-off levels 71-72

Ratio of write-off to development expenditure 72 Innovative and experimental productions 72-73 Womens' Film Fund 73

Response to 'Window onto Worlds' 73

Review of Film Australia 73

- recommendations 73-74

Future of Film Australia 74

Cost of film Australia Bicentennial project 74 Nitrate Film holdings 74

Government use of independent producers 74

- Commission advice on use of 74

independent producers

255,

Federal election - Statements by Commission Officers 74-75

Membership of Board 75

Federal Election - Profile of Commission 75-76 of ficers

6.4 Australian Film, Televsion and Radio School Progress on construction of new building 76

Programs and facilities 76

Tax deductibility of donations 76

Student allowances 77

Radio School 77

PROGRAM 7: HERITAGE 7.1 Policy and Co-ordination Movable cultural heritage 77

- list determination 77

Lemonthyme and Southern Forests Commission of Inquiry 77

- Tasmanian Government submission 77

- availability of data 77-78

- powers of the Commission 78

- access to information

7.5 Historic Shipwrecks Wreck of 'Sirius' 78-79

7.6 Assistance to heritage organisations Australia's vote for Director-General of UNESCO 79

7.7 Australian Heritage Commission Fringe benefits tax and custodians of National Estate places 79

Deletions from National Estate register 79

Assessment of Estate places 79

Queensland wet tropics 79-80

- Heritage Commission Departmental Submission 80

7.8 Australian National Gallery Phillips Exhibition 80

ANG Foundation 80

ANG's Education role 80

Treasurer's Speech on Neo-classical Art 81

- availability of transcript and recording 81 - freedom of information request 81-82

- Attorney-General's advice 82

- waiver of copyright fee 82-83

7.9 Australian National Maritime Museum US Government Bicentennial gift 83

Museum's budget 83

- building cost 83

- Commonwealth contribution . 83-84

'James Craig'

256.

7.10 National Film and Sound Archives Problems and activities 84

Visitors 84

Expansion of facilities 84-85

Nitrate and acetate film 85

Acetate sound recordings 85

Staffing 85-86

Building extensions 86

1 Time on Our Hands' 86

'Showgirl's Luck' 86

Revenue generation 86-87

Incorporated questions 87

7.11 National Library of Australia Effect of devaluation of $A 87

Library budgets and inflation 87-88

Inter-library loan charges 88

Purchase of Journals ' 88

Services to the New Parliament House 88-89

Computer facilities 89

Conservation work 89

Rare book collection 89-90

7.12 National Museum of Australia Disposal of material 90-91

Definition of 'National historical collection' 91 Future of Museum 91

Review of Museums 91-92

- future use of Parliament House 92

National Institute of Aboriginal Studies Collection 92 Incorporated questions 92-93

PROGRAM 8: CONSERVATION AND THE ENVIRONMENT 8.1 Policy and Co-ordination Endangered Species Unit 93

- and Advisory Committee 93

- budget 93

- staffing 93

- programs 93-94

- consultancies 94

- resources 94

8.4 National Rainforest Conservation Program North Queensland Rainforests - departmental expenditure on investigations 94 - consultancies 94-95

- staffing of Rainforest Unit 95

- evaluation of job potentials 95

- Queensland applications for funds under conservation program 95

257.

- allocation of funds 95

- NSW application 95-96

- Indicative boundaries 96

- sources of information - Rainforest Conservation Society of Queensland 96

- other consultancies and costs 96-97

- World Heritage Listing 97

- proportion of rainforest to eucalyptus forest 97

- access to CSIRO information 97-98

- criteria for World Heritage listing 98

- submissions on World Heritage listing 98

- indicative boundaries 98

- state of timber industry in North Queensland 98-99

- plantation forestry 99

- mineral exploration 99

- comparisons with Kakadu National Park 99-100 - Departmental map of rainforest areas 100

- Submissions from North Queensland 100-101 - assessment 101

- Rainforest Unit personnel 101

- Dr Keto 101

- and indicative boundaries 101

- Report on Rainforest Conservation in Australia 101 - World Heritage list criteria 101

- and logging 101-102

- date for cessation of logging 102-103

- compensation 103

- indicative boundaries and private 103-104 - property categories of compensation 104

- Queensland State Government involvement 104-105 - job creation schemes 105

- cost of promoting proposed nomination 105 - socio-economic study into the effects of World heritage listing 105

- grants to conservation organisations 105 - Northern Queensland Timber Board 105

- and grants to conservation groups 105-106 - size of forest plantations 106

- establishment and utilisation 106

- private property within indicative boundaries 106 - Tully - Millstream hydro-electric development 106-107

- compensation 107-108

Eden Rainforest Area 108

- export licence 108

- and NSW Government 108

258.

109 Lemonthyme and Southern Forests Inquiry - invest for funding for Tasmanian Government to prepare submission 109

- other groups receiving funding to prepare submissions 109

8.5 Environmental quality protection programs Noxious chemicals and hazardous wastes 109

- costs of transporting hazardous wastes 109 Waste Incinerator 109-110

National facility for disposal of hazardous chemicals 110

Pollution by ships 110

Spillcon 1987 Conference 110

8.8 Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service Kangaroo Management 110

- RSPCA reports 110

- Management plans and AAT challenge 110-111 - proposals adopted by European Parliament 111 - Congressman Mrazek 111

IUCN Treaty and Costa Rica Conference in 1988 111 Income from camping and entry fees at Kakadu 111 - use of income 111-112

Peko-Wallsend High Court action 112

- Commonwealth's position 112

- Compensation 112

Northern Territory report on National Parks 112 Stage 2 and 3 of Kakadu 112

- BHP and Coronation Hill 112

- Kakdu Stage 3 - Aboriginal Art Treasures in danger 112

8.9 Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority Effects of developments in Daintree region 112-113

8.10 The Supervising Scientist and the Alligator Rivers Region Research Institute Allocations of additional Funds 113

PROGRAM 9 - CORPORATE SERVICES Departmental reaction to Senate report on Non-staturory bodies 113

PROGRAM 11 - AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY Division 154 - Administrative Running costs ACT Budget allocation 113-114

Furniture and fittings 114

Incidentals 114

Swimming Pools 114-115

Youth Programs - Kelly's Farm 115

259 .

Other responsibilities 115

Erindale electricity supply 115

Corrective and juvenile justice services 115 - Quamby 115

- Campbell Cottage 115

- Community Housing Program and Richmond Fellowship 115-116

- education Services at Quamby 116

Motor Registration 116

- graduated licensing system 116

- motor vehicle testing stations 116-117

- regularity of checks 117

- new drivers' licence 117

Parking Operations 117

- inspectors 117

- number plates 117

- Loader and Bayly study on traffic in suburban areas 117-118

- parking in suburbs 118

- parking in Civic 118

- City Hill development 118

- Haig Park 118-119

- safety requirements for gabage trucks 119 - motor-cycle licence 119

- Motor Cycle Riders Association 119-120

Library expenditure 120

- computer facilities 120

Canberra Development Board 120

- Perth Office 120

Consultants 120

Repairs and Maintenance 120-121

Other services Adoption - waiting lists 121

- staffing 121

- criticisms of procedures 121-122

Australian Traineeships - Concessions 122

Cost of gaols in the ACT 122

Division 156 - ACT Schools Authority For expenditure under the Schools Authority Ordinance Cuts in spending 122

Advertising expenses 122

- cost of readvertisements 123

Corporal punishment in schools 123

Division 157 - Canberra College of Advanced Education Ministerial representation on Australian Education Council 123

260.

Division 158 - Educational Services - ACT Colleges of technical and further education running costs. TAPE funding 124-125

- revenues 125

- u s e 125

- staff ceiling 125

- overseas student 125

- Handicapped Children's Association 125

- Accounting Course 125-126

- night instead of day classes 126

Division 815 - ACT Administration - Capital Works and services Building and Works. Plumbing inspectors 126

Vehicle, trucks and motor-cycles 126

Bus maintenance 127

Enterprise incentive scheme 127

Other Services Housing assistance eligibility 127

Aged persons units 127-128

Payments to community organisations 128

- causes of delay of payments 128

Division 025 - Special Appropriation Remuneration Tribunals Act Payroll tax 128-129

Revenue from use of Central Office Computer facilities 129

ACT Health Authority Sale of Allambee Nursing Home 129

- Lasman Pty Ltd 129-130

- role of Dept of Administrative Services 130

- Lasman Pty Ltd 130

- future of existing residents 130-131

- press release concerning the sale 131

Hospital Services - transfers to other or interstate hospitals 131

- fees of doctors in Wagga compared with Canberra 131-132

Nursing homes - waiting list 132

Alcohol and Drug Service Cardiac Surgery - Childrens' Services 132

Insurances for retrieval teams 133

Nurses Dispute 133

Elective surgery - waiting list 133

Hospital bed numbers 133

Royal Canberra refurbishment 133

ACT Health Authority Meeting at City Gate Motel 133 Physiotherapy services - increased charges 133-134 Hospital Employees' Federation 134

261.

ACT Schools Authority Pre-school fees 134-135

Montessori pre-school 135-136

Rezoning of school system 137

Orana school 137-138

'Equality of educational outcomes' 138-139

Gymnasium for Canberra High School - design costs 139

Florey School 139

Schools Authority Council 140

Paid tutor scheme 140

ACT Schools Authority Counselling Service 140

Division 160 - National Capital Development Commission For expenditure under the National Capital Development Commission Act - Recurrent expenditure. Resumption of land near Hindmarsh Drive 141

Griffin Centre 141

Heritage legislation 141

Tourist development site at Chisholm 141

- service stations 141

NCDC policy on service stations 141-142

Development of Lake Ginninderra 142

Sale of Markets 142

Narrabundah long stay Caravan Park 143

- and Sundown drive-in site 143-144

Section 36, Deakin 144

Rocky Knoll. 144

262.

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