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Estimates Committee - Senate - A - Reports - Autumn 1993-94


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The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

Senate Estimates Committees A, B, C, D, E and F

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1993-94

© Commonwealth of Australia 1995 ISSN 0811 - 0883

This document was produced from camera-ready copy and printed by the Senate Printing Unit, Parliament House, Canberra

CONTENTS PAGE

1. Resolutions of the Senate

2. Estimates Committees— Allocation of Portfolios

3. Membership of Committees

4. Estimates Committee A Report Index to Hansard of public hearings Tuesday, 22 February 1994

Friday, 25 February 1994 Minutes of Proceedings Monday, 8 November 1994 Wednesday, 24 November 1994

Tuesday, 22 February 1994 Tuesday, 22 February 1994 Friday, 25 February 1994 Tuesday, 1 March 1994

Wednesday, 2 March 1994 ' Friday, 18 March 1994 Wednesday, 23 March 1994

4. Estimates Committee B Report Minutes of Proceedings Tuesday, 22 February 1994

Wednesday, 23 February 1994 Thursday, 24 February 1994 Wednesday, 2 March 1994 Index to Hansard of public hearings Second Report Minutes of Supplementary Hearings

Friday, 18 March 1994 Wednesday, 23 March 1994

5. Estimates Committee C Report Addendum to Report Minutes of Proceedings

Monday, 25 October 1993 Monday, 15 November 1993 Thursday, 10 February 1994 Tuesday, 22 February 1994

Monday, 28 February 1994 Tuesday, 1 March 1994 Thursday, 3 March 1994

39 49

57 61 65

69 79 81

i

Appendix 1 Contents of Hansard transcripts of evidence Appendix 2 Questions taken on notice before and during

the public hearings Minutes of Supplementary Hearings Tuesday, 15 March 1994 Thursday, 17 March 1994

6. Estimates Committee D Report Minutes of Proceedings Thursday, 24 February 1994

Wednesday, 2 March 1994 Index to Hansard of public hearings Minutes of Supplementary Hearing Wednesday, 23 March 1994

Wednesday, 23 March 1994

7. Estimates Committee E Report Minutes of Proceedings Wednesday, 9 February 1994

Thursday, 24 February 1994 Thursday, 24 February 1994 Wednesday, 2 March 1994 Index to Hansard of public hearings Minutes of Supplementary Hearings Thursday, 17 March 1994 Tuesday, 22 March 1994 Tuesday, 22 March 1994 Wednesday, 23 March 1994 Thursday, 24 March 1994

8. Estimates Committee F Report Dissenting Report Minutes of Proceedings

Thursday, 10 February 1994 Thursday, 24 February 1994 Wednesday, 2 March 1994 Index to Hansard of public hearings Minutes of Supplementary Hearings Tuesday, 22 March 1994 Thursday, 24 March 1994

96

105

93

111 120

127 130

135 140

148 151

159 164 165

174 177

ii

1. RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AGREED TO ON 9 FEBRUARY 1994

Pa r t i c u l a r s o f Pr o p o s e d A d di tion al E x p e n d i t u r e 1993-94-(1) That the particulars of proposed additional expenditure in relation to the Parliamentary Departments in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994, the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for

the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 and the particulars of certain proposed additional expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994 be referred to estimates committees for examination and report. (2) That the committees consider proposed additional expenditure in

the estimates committee groupings agreed to on 7 February 1994.

(3) That the committees report to the Senate on or before 3 March

(4) That, subject to the sittings of the Senate, the committees meet to hear evidence in accordance with the following schedule: (a) Committees A B and C - Tuesday, 22 February 1994; (b) Committees D, E and F - Thursday, 24 February

1994; and

(c) if required, on such other days as determined by the committees.

2. ESTIMATES COMMUTEES-ALLOCATION OF PORTFOLIOS

1994.

Estimates Committee A Communications and the Arts Foreign Affairs and Defence Prime Minister and Cabinet

Transport

Estimates Committee D Finance Industry, Technology and Regional Development

Treasury

Estimates Committee B Defence Industrial Relations Tourism Veterans' Affairs

Estimates Committee E Administrative Services Employment, Education and Training

Primary Industries and Energy

Estimates Committee C Environment, Sport and Territories Human Services and Health

Estimates Committee F Attorney-General Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Parliament

Social Security

iii

2. MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEES

Estimates Committee A

Senator Archer1 Senator Childs Senator Kemp*1l** Senator Loosely Senator Maguire2, 3 Senator 0'Cheet§|| Senator Jones4, 5’ 6 Senator Troeth7, 8’ 9 Senator Carr10 Senator Ferguson11 Φ Senator Panizza12 Senator C Evans13

* Senator Kemp was discharged and Senator Panizza appointed for 20 September 1993 only. (7 September 1993) t Senator McGauran replaced Senator O'Chee for the period 30 August 1993 to 2 September 1993. (19 August 1993) Φ Senator Troeth to replace Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. (8 February 1994) § Senator Brownhill to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. (8 February 1994)

|| Senator Tierney to replace Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts. (8 February 1994) H Senator Alston to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Communications component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

(8 February 1994) Senator Baume to replace Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Arts component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts. (8 February 1994)

Estimates Committee B Senator Aulich14' 15 Senator Burns Senator Carr Senator MacGibbont Senator Teague16 Senator Tierney17 Senator C Evans18 Senator Chapman19 Senator Crane20*

Senator Teague to replace Senator Crane for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs. (8 February 1994) t Senator Minchin to replace Senator MacGibbon for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Industrial Relations and the Department of Tourism. (8 February

1994)

iv

Estimates Committee C Senator Giles21, 22 Senator Newman! Senator Patterson! Senator Tate

Senator Tambling23 Senator Zakharov24, 25 Senator Sherry26 Senator Murphy27, 28

Senator Reynolds29 Senator Denman30 Senator Zakharov31, 32 Senator Ian Macdonald33*

Senator West34

* Senator Tambling to replace Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Human Services and Health. (8 February 1994) + Senators Baume and Crichton-Browne to replace Senators Newman and Patterson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Environment, Sport and

Territories. (8 February 1994)

Estimates Committee D

Senator Bishop*35 Senator Coates Senator Crane!36 Senator Parer!

Senator Reynolds37 Senator Walsh38, 39 Senator Colston40, 41 ■ 42** Senator Murphy43

Senator Carr44 Senator Gibson45! Senator Loosley46,47 Senator McKiernan48 Senator Abetz49

* Senator Minchin replaced Senator Bishop for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Arts and Administrative Services and the Department of Industrial Relations. (19 August 1993) t Senator Gibson replaced Senator Crane for the consideration of the estimates of the

Department of Arts and Administrative Services, the Treasury and the Department of Finance. (19 August 1993) ** Senator Colston was discharged and Senator Sherry was appointed for 2 September 1993 only. (1 September 1993)

Φ Senators Chapman and Ferguson to replace Senators Parer and Gibson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development. (8 February 1994)

Estimates Committee E Senator Crichton-Browne50* Senator Devereux Senator Ferguson51 Senator Foreman Senator I. Macdonald t 52 Senator West53 Senator Campbell54§|| Senator Teague55 Φ§ Senator Troeth56* || Senator Zakharov57

* Senator Tierney replaced Senator Crichton-Browne for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Transport and Communications. (19 August 1994) t Senator Chapman replaced Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Transport and Communications and the Department of Industry,

Technology and Regional Development. (19 August 1993) Φ Senators Sandy Macdonald and Minchin to replace Senators Teague and Troeth for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Administrative Services. (8 February 1994) § Senators Crane and Panizza58 to replace Senators Campbell and Teague for the

consideration of the estimates of the Department of Primary Industries and Energy. (8 February 1994) || Senators Sandy Macdonald and Tierney to replace Senators Campbell and Troeth for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Employment, Education and

Training. (8 February 1994)

Estimates Committee F Senator Beahan Senator Calvert*59 Senator Cooney60 Senator Knowles* t 61 Senator McKiernan Senator Short* ΙΦ§11 Senator Colston62 Senator Ellison631 | Senator Vanstone641| 1 1 Senator Foreman65

Senators Baume, Ellison and Vanstone replaced Senators Calvert, Knowles and Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Parliamentary Departments. (19 August 1993) t Senators Ellison and Vanstone replaced Senators Knowles and Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Attorney-General. (19 August

1993)

Φ Senator Baume to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Parliamentary Departments. (8 February 1994) § Senator Calvert to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Attorney-General's Department. (8 February 1994)

II Senators Knowles and McGauran to replace Senators Ellison and Vanstone for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs. (8 February 1994) 11 Senators McGauran and Patterson to replace Senators Short and Vanstone for the

consideration of the estimates of the Department of Social Security. (8 February 1994)

vi

1. Discharged 19 August 1993.

2. Discharged 27 May 1993.

3. Retired 30 June 1993.

4. Appointed 27 May 1993.

5. Discharged 21 October 1993, for period 1 November to 6 December 1993.

6. Appointed for hearings on 25 February 1994 only.

7. Appointed 19 August 1993.

8. Discharged 8 February 1994.

9. Discharged 9 February 1994.

10. Appointed 21 October 1993, for the period 1 November to 6 December 1993. 11. Appointed 8 February 1994. 12. Appointed 9 February 1994.

13. Discharged for hearings on 25 February 1994 only.

14. Discharged 27 May 1993.

15. Retired 30 June 1993. 16. Discharged 8 February 1994. 17. Discharged 8 February 1994. 18. Appointed 27 May 1993.

19. Appointed 8 February 1994.

20. Appointed 8 February 1994. 21. Discharged 27 May 1993. 22. Retired 30 June 1993.

23. Discharged 8 February 1994.

24. Discharged 10 May 1993.

25. Discharged 30 August 1993.

26. Appointed 10 May 1993.

27. Appointed 27 May 1993.

28. Discharged 27 September 1993.

29. Appointed 19 August 1993.

30. Appointed 30 August 1993.

31. Appointed 27 September 1993. 32. Discharged 10 February 1994. 33. Appointed 8 February 1994.

34. Appointed 10 February 1994.

35. Resigned 24 February 1994.

36. Discharged 8 February 1994.

37. Discharged 19 August 1993.

38. Discharged 27 May 1993.

39. Retired 30 June 1993.

40. Appointed 27 May 1993.

41. Discharged 21 October 1993, for the period 7 November to 14 November 1993.

42. Discharged 8 February 1994.

43. Appointed 19 August 1993.

44. Appointed 21 October 1993, for the period 7 November to 14 November 1993.

45. Appointed 8 February 1994.

46. Appointed 8 February 1994.

47. Discharged for hearings on 24 February 1994 only.

vii

48. Appointed for hearings on 23 February 1994 only.

49. Appointed 28 February 1994.

50. Discharged 8 February 1994.

51. Discharged 8 February 1994.

52. Discharged 8 February 1994. 53. Discharged 10 February 1994. 54. Appointed 8 February 1994.

55. Appointed 8 February 1994.

56. Appointed 8 February 1994.

57. Appointed 10 February 1994.

58. Discharged 9 February 1994 and replaced by Senator Sandy Macdonald.

59. Discharged 8 February 1994.

60. Discharged for hearings on 24 February 1994 only.

61. Discharged 8 February 1994.

62. Appointed 8 February 1994.

63. Appointed 8 February 1994.

64. Appointed 8 February 1994.

65. Appointed for hearings on 24 February 1994 only.

viii

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

Estimates Committee A

Report to the Senate

MARCH 1994

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

CHAIR: Senator B.K. Childs (New South Wales)

MEMBERS: Senator A.B. Ferguson (South Australia) Senator G. Jones (Queensland) Senator R. Kemp (Victoria) Senator S. Loosley (New South Wales) Senator W.G. O'Chee (Queensland)

Senator J.M. Troeth replaced Senator Ferguson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator D. Brownhill replaced Senator OGhee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Senator J.W. Tierney replaced Senator O'Chee for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator R. Alston replaced Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Communications component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator M. Baume replaced Senator Kemp for the consideration of the Arts component of the estimates of the Department of Communications and the Arts.

Senator C. Evans replaced Senator Jones on 25 February 1994.

Secretary: Peter Hallahan

Research Staff: Rosemary Brissenden Paul Palisi

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A presents its Report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 9 February 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee, for examination and report, the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994, and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure for the service of the year ending 30 June 1994, in respect of the following ministerial portfolios:

. Prime Minister and Cabinet (including the Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General)

. Foreign Affairs and Trade

. Transport

. Communications and the Arts

2. The Committee has considered the Additional Estimates for the year ending 30 June 1994, together with Portfolio Performance Statements and has received evidence from the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, the

Minister for Family Services, Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley, the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, the Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade, Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan and officers of the departments concerned. Copies

of the Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Dill (No. 3) 1993-1994 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1993-94. Minutes of Proceedings and further written explanations furnished by departments will

be presented separately.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters which arose during consideration of the Additional Estimates.

DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Program 2.2.1 - Official Establishments

4. Senator Kemp pursued a number of questions concerning the sacking of two housekeepers at the lodge. Senator Kemp's major concern was that the matter still has not been satisfactorily concluded. The issue of why the ombudsman did not consider she had legal jurisdiction in the matter was also explored. The Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister

for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans informed the Committee that there is a general rule against the ombudsman dealing with employment contract situations. He also stated that

a second order consideration is the applicability of that part of the ombudsman's Act which inhibits the ombudsman second- guessing decisions of Ministers. I understand that the Ombudsman has taken the view - whether I would take that view is another question; it seems to me to be stretching rather a long bow, I have to say - that the decision to terminate here should be regarded as a decision of the Prime Minister himself, who had the formal employment relationship, rather than the departmental officer who in fact carried it through.1

Program 7.4 - Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security

5. During the examination of the additional estimates for the Office of the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS), the Minister was questioned about critical allegations made by former ASIS employees televised on the ABC program 4-Corners of 21 February 1994.

6. The Minister informed the Committee that the officers concerned have had grievances, in some cases stretching back a number of years, which have already been the subject of quite extensive inquiries by the Inspector- General. Senator Evans stated that in the Inspector-General's judgement,

the cases had been settled. He expressed confidence that there were no grounds for concern about the administration of these organisations.

7. The Minister informed the Committee that he had for some time been considering an external review of the operation of the intelligence agencies. Terms of Reference for this review were subsequently announced on 28 February 1994.

1 Evidence, p. 12.

8. Senator Robert Hill asked a number of questions concerning a number of personnel management issues within ASIS which were dealt with in the IGIS annual report. He expressed concern about the manner in which one of the Inspector-General's recommendations, that compensation be paid

to a staff member, was implemented.

9. When questioned about the propriety of this action the Minister stated that "Sometimes these matters simply have to be brought to a head".2 The Minister further stated that IGIS were fully appraised of the matter and had not made any judgement about whether a further injustice had been done

or maladministration further applied in the manner in which recommendations had been implemented.

10. The Committee acknowledges that because of the necessary security which surrounds the operations of such organisations as ASIS, it is difficult to satisfactorily examine such issues in an Estimates Committee. It

therefore welcomes the Government's announcement of the establishment of an inquiry and considers that issues such as the implementation of the findings of the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security should be considered as part of this investigation.

Program 8 - Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission

11. While falling under the general umbrella of the Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio, separate program performance statements are prepared for ATSIC. However, some summary material referring to expenditure in the divisions of the Appropriation Bill divisions is provided in the statements for the portfolio.

12. This led to some confusion during consideration of the additional estimates, as it was evident that on at least one occasion, a Committee member was working from the summary material provided in the portfolio statements whereas the officers were referring to ATSIC's statements.

13. The Committee notes that the two sets of statements are not easily reconcilable. It believes that if material is to be provided in the portfolio statements, it should be in a form which summarises the expenditure on a

program basis and is readily reconcilable with ATSIC's statements. Cross referencing to the separate ATSIC statements should also be considerably more prominent.

2 Evidence, p. A39.

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

Program 1.9 - Information and Cultural Relations

14. A number of questions were asked about the escalation of US trade tensions, particularly expanding exports under the food for peace program. Senator Kemp sought the Minister's views as to whether the food for peace program is seen as a possible threat to traditional Australian export markets.

15. The Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade, Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan told the Committee that:

My advice until now has been that this has been considered a relatively small aspect of any problem that might relate to the United States activities in wheat markets...

...At this stage we have assurances of certain courses of action. It would be inappropriate to start by an assumption that people really do not mean what they say. But we will be vigilant. I understand your point. At this stage it does not seem to be a major issue, but it might happen.·5

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

Program 1.1 - Aviation Policy, Security and Infrastructure

16. Officers of this Department commenced their evidence with an apology to the Committee concerning the late provision of answers to questions asked by to Senator Ian Macdonald during the Budget estimates hearings. These questions were directed to the Civil Aviation Authority and concerned air safety issues.

17. Departmental officers explained that the fault lay with the Department, not the CAA, and that the papers were "lost sight of' during the period immediately prior to Christmas and through January.

18. The Committee expresses its very considerable concern and anger about the apparently lax attitude taken to the provision of answers by the Department. Matters relating to air safety should have been addressed quickly and comprehensively in the light of public concerns about this issue.

3 Evidence, p. 83.

19. While the Committee is normally constrained at Additional Estimates hearings to examining only items for expenditure is sought, in future any issues left unanswered from the Budget estimates will automatically be listed

for further examination at the Committee's Additional Estimates hearings.

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS

Program 1.3 - Special Broadcasting Service

20. Senator Alston sought information taken by SBS management following the unauthorised broadcasting of personal views by an SBS journalist. SBS management informed the Committee that the journalist had been counselled and instructed to balance the interview in accordance with

SBS's code of practice and that the person concerned had complied with this instruction.

Program 2.5 - Australian Telecommunications Authority (AUSTEL)

21. AUSTEL management were extensively questioned about AUSTEL's powers to investigate complaints, the inquiry into Telecom's treatment of consumer complaints, including the CoT (Casualties of Telecom) cases and allegations of unauthorised taping of phone calls.

22. Concern was expressed by Senator Alston about the investigation of individual cases by AUSTEL. The Chairman of AUSTEL informed the Committee that AUSTEL may use individual cases to illustrate the points it wished to achieve and to the extent that it was necessary, would be

pursuing the specific instances. He stated that AUSTEL aims to release its report in mid-March.

Senator B.K. Childs Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A HANSARD INDEX

Tuesday, 22 February 1994

General

Members Chairman's statement A1

PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET PORTFOLIO

In attendance A2

OFFICE OF THE OFFICIAL SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL

Program 1 - Management Executive A3-4

Program 4 - Corporate Services A4

DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET

Program 2 - Government Support Services

Subprogram 2.2.1. - Official Establishments A5-A14

Subprogram 2.2.2. - Ceremonial and Hospitality A15

Program 3 - Special Policy and Program Functions

Subprogram 3.2 - Status of Women A44

Subprogram 3.3 - Science and Technology Policy A15

Subprogram 3.4 - Indigenous Affairs A17-21

Subprogram 3.5 - Native Title A21-24

Program 4 - Corporate Services

Subprogram 4.3 - Program Support A24-27

Program 6 - Portfolio Policy Advising Agencies

Subprogram 6.1 - Australian Science and Technology Council A15-17

Subprogram 6.4 - Office of the Resource Assessment Commission A4-A5

Program 7 - Public Administration and Accountability

Subprogram 7.2 - Office of the Commonwealth Ombudsman A27-28 Subprogram 7.3 - Merit Protection and Review Agency A28-30 Subprogram 7.4 - Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security A30-44

8

Program 8 - Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs

General

Overall additional estimates for ATSIC A47

Proposed land acquisition fund A51

Social justice package A51

Land use and economic opportunities consultancy A51-52 Purchase of pastoral properties by the CDC A52

Funding for land management A52-53

Fraud awareness inquiry A54

Anyinginyi Congress A54-55

ALPA proposal re establishment of a traditional Credit Union in northern Australia A55-56

ATSIC funding and self-government conferences A57

ATSIC Annual Report - Sewerage facilities A57

- Audit findings A58

- Salary increases A58

- Interest on loans A59

Representations to a member of parliament A59-60

Program B - Social and Cultural

Subprogram 1 - Land, Heritage and Environment Native title claim funding A44-47, 48-49

Aboriginal Benefits Trust account A53-54

Subprogram 5 - Aboriginal Hostels Limited A49-51

Subprogram 6. - Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies A60-61

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In attendance A62

General

Variation not allocated to a program A67-68

Plans for expansion of overseas presence A68

Regional heads of mission meetings A68-69

Program 1 - International Relations, Trade and Business Liaison

Subprogram 1.7 - Global issues A63-67

Subprogram 1.9 - Information and Cultural Relations A69-70

Program 5 - Executive and DFAT Corporate Services

Subprogram 5.2 - DFAT Corporate Services A70-71

Program 6 - Development Co-operation

Subprogram 6.1 - Country Programs A71-75

9

Subprogram 6. - Corporate Services

A 75-79

10

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A HANSARD INDEX

Friday, 25 February 1994

DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In attendance A81

Program 1 - International Relations, Trade and Business Liaison

Sub-program 1.9 - Information and Cultural Relations

Australian ministers for trade visits to Vietnam A82-83, 93

Degree of government involvement in Australian investment in Vietnam A83, 93-4

Wheat exports and the US food for peace program A83-84

Trade with Japan A84-86

Non-tariff barriers for Australian products A86

Financial costs involved in APEC participation A86-87 Tobacco industry and GATT regulations A87-90

Sugar industry and GATT regulations A90

Other primary industries and GATT regulations A90-91 Tariffication A91-93

Implementation of OECD guidelines on trade and environment A94

National trade and investment outlook conference A94 Partnership 2000 conference A94

Other industries affected by latest GATT round A94-95 Department expenditure on trade development A95-96

Effect of human rights considerations on trade with Vietnam A96

Responsibilities of revamped international competitiveness branch A96

Likely costs of response measures to climatic change A96-97

Program 7 - Australian Trade Commission

Program specific variations Overseas Austrade staff: salaries and allowances Austrade efficiency audits Paramatta Export Centre

A97-99 A99

A99-100 A100-103

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

In attendance A103

Program 1 - Aviation

Delay in answers to questions regarding the CAA A103-107

11

Subprogram 1.1 - Aviation Policy, Security and Infrastructure

Possible purchase of Tullamarine airport Aerodrome transfers to local owners Australia Air links with China Badgerys Creek

Program 2 - Land Transport

Subprogram 2.1 Road and Rail Policy Concessional travel increase Corporate structure of ANR

Program 4 - Corporate Direction and Support

Subprogram 4.2 - Management Support and Advice Further detail on additional legal costs Current compensation cases Money to pay awards against FAC or CAA Procedure in dealing with questions

on notice

Costs of prosecution against Mr Peter Sheehan Investigation into June 1993 crash at Young Ramp checks Costs of delays in implementing TAAATS system Monarch group of companies - penalties imposed

- debt recovery action - surveillance

Contingent liability list Role of the department in relation to the CAA BTCE

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATION AND THE ARTS

In attendance

General Possible economies Answer to question on notice from Senator Baume

Program 1 - Broadcasting

Subprogram 1.3 - Special Broadcasting Service Macedonia Method of response to allegations of bias

Policy in relation to election time Sourcing of news programs BNA Market for suib-titled films Redundancy program and World Cup Expansion of SBS

Program 2 - Communications

Subprogram 2.1 - Telecommunications Policy International Telecommunications Union Broadband Services (Expert) Group

A107 A108 A108

A108-109

A109 A109

A109-113 A113 A113

A114 A114

A114-115 A115 A115 A115 A115 A115 A116 A116 A116-7

A118

A119 A119

A119-120 A121 A122 A122-123

A123 A124

A124-126 A126

A126-127 A127-128

12

A128-129 Need for expensive new technologies Australia and the multimedia information super highway expansion A129

Subprogram 2.2 - Spectrum Management Agency Leases of sites A130

Introduction of a resource rent tax A130

Revenue target A131

Subprogram 2.5 - Australian Telecommunications Authority Austel inquiry into Telecom's treatment of members' complaints A131-142

Access to Telecom's customer records A142

Legal action over mobile services A143-144

Privacy considerations A144

Increase in salaries and related expenses A145

Private payphone operators and swipe cards A145

Program 3 - Cultural Development

Subprogram 3 .1 - Australian Cultural Development Office A145-151

Subprogram 3.5 - Australian Film, Television and Radio School A151-152

Subprogram 3 .8 - National Film and Sound Archive A152-153 Subprogram 3 .9 - National Library of Australia A153-155 Subprogram 3 .1 0 - National Museum of Australia A155-156

13

ESTIM ATES C O M M IT T E E A

M inutes o f P roceedings

Nos. 15 - 23

Novem ber 1993 - M arch 1994

Monday, 8 November 1993

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 15

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 9.11am in Committee Room 2R1, Parliament House, Canberra. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. SUPPLEMENTARY CONSIDERATION OF MATTERS RELATING TO THE PROPOSED ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE 1993/94

The Committee commenced its supplementary examination of matters relating to the Estimates of Expenditure 1993/94 for the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Foreign Affairs and Trade and Primary Industries and Energy Portfolios, notice of these matters having been given by Senators in accordance with the Order of the Senate of 6 May 1993:

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by officers from the portfolio areas under consideration.:

The following officers gave evidence:

Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet „

Mr M. Bonsey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Government Division Mr M. Dillon, First Assistant Secretary. Office of Indigenous Affairs Ms A. Tinney.First Assistant Secretary, Cabinet Office

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission

Dr P. Shergold, Chief Executive Officer Mr M.Brown, Acting Assistant General Manager, Economic program Mr R. Beadman, General Manager, Corporate Services

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Mr K. Boreham, Acting First Assistant Secretary, International Organisations and Legal Division Mr R. Cotton, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division

15

Mr M. Cummins, Assistant Director General, South Pacific and Training, AIDAB Mr P. Flood, Director General, AIDAB

Mr M. Kupa, First Assistant Secretary, South and South East Asia Division Mr R. Stensholt, Acting Deputy Director General, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division, AIDAB Dr H. Ware, Assistant Director General, Program Development

and Review Branch, AIDAB Mr T. Vincent, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Evaluation Branch, Corporate Services Division

Department of Primary Industries and Energy

Mr R. Higgins, Acting Secretary Mr G. Gome, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Affairs Division Mr P. Hickey, Executive Director, AQIS Mr J. Landos, AQIS

3. BROADCAST OF PROCEEDINGS

The Committee authorised presence of camera crews in addition to those provided by the Parliamentary Sound and Vision Office.

4. DOCUMENTS TABLED

The following documents were tabled during the hearing:

. Costs associated with the republic advisory committee . ATSIC Office of Evaluation and Audit, Measurement of Aboriginal Socio­ economic status: index of socio-economic disadvantage . Costs associated with the production of book "Co-operating for peace”

. DFAT resources devoted to bilateral trade links with China and India

5. CONCLUSION OF EXAMINATION

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

6. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 6.32pm.

7. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Carr, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee and Troeth.

16

Senators Brownhill, Hill and Harradine also attended.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

17

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 16

Wednesday, 24 November 1993

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 12.45pm in the Advisor's area outside the Senate Chamber, Parliament House, Canberra. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. M IN U T E S:

The Minutes of meeting No. 15 were confirmed.

3. M O TIO N TO RECONVENE:

The Committee considered the following motion which was moved by Senator Kemp:

That the Committee meet as early as practicable to further consider estimates relating to staffing arrangements at official establishments and the purchase of furniture for the Lodge.

The motion was defeated on the Chairman's casting vote.

4. A D JO U R N M EN T

The Committee adjourned at 12.47pm.

5. A TTEN D A N C E

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Carr, Kemp, Loosley, O'Chee and Troeth.

C E R TIFIE D CORRECT

B.K. CH ILDS C H A I R MA N

18

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 17 Tuesday 22 February 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 4.25pm in the Main Committee Room Anteroom. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

Z ORDER OF BUSINESS:

It was agreed that Departments be heard in the following order:

Governor General Prime Minister and Cabinet Office of Status of Women ATSIC

Foreign Affairs and Trade (excluding trade components) Foreign Affairs and Trade (Trade components and Austrade) Transport Communications and the Arts

It was further agreed that within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Subprograms 3.3 and 6.1 to be considered together.

It was further agreed that the Departments of Transport and

Communications and the Arts not be heard until Friday 25 February 1994.

3. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 4.29 pm.

4. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Ferguson, Loosley and O'Chee. Senators Margetts, Panizza and Troeth also attended.

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 18 Tuesday 22 February 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in public session at 4.30pm in the Main Committee Room.The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. OPENING STATEMENT:

The Chairman, Senator Childs, made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - OFFICE OF THE OFFICIAL SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL

In attendance:

Mr D. Sturkey, Official Secretary Ms J. Hall, Deputy Official Secretary Wing Commander A. Blyth, Military Secretary and Comptroller Mr B. Edwards, Director, Honours

Mr C. Bell, Director, Corporate Services Mr A. Don, Budgets and Finance Officer

The Chairman called on variations not allocated to program followed by programs 1, 2 and 4 of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor- General, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 -DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET-In attendance: the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Foreign Affairs Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans and the Minister for

20

Family Services, Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley, accompanied by the following officers:

Mr R. Beale, Assistant Secretary Mr J. Stanford, First Assistant Secretary, Industries Resources and Environment Division Mr M. Thawley, First Assistant Secretary, International Division

Ms A. Tinney, First Assistant Secretary, Cabinet Office Ms C. Summerhayes, Senior Adviser, Cabinet Office Mr M. Hazell, Head, South Pacific Forum Task Force Ms A. Sherry, First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Status of

Women Ms P. Kelly, Assistant Secretary, Economic and Social Policy Branch, Office of the Status of Women Ms K. Barfoot, Assistant Secretary, International, Legal and Research

Branch, Office of the Status of Women Ms C. Astley-Boden, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Office of the Chief Scientist Mr M. Dillon, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Indigenous Affairs

Mr M. Cunliffe, Assistant Secretary, Native Title Implementation Task Force Mr P. Vaughan, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Mrs A. Leahy, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Support Branch,

Corporate Services Division

Australian Science and Technology Council: Ms C. Astley-Boden, Secretary

Office of National Assessments: Mr K. Heydon, Deputy Director-General, Economic/Management Division Mr D. Triffett, Head, Corporate Services

Mrs M. Bourke, Senior Executive Officer, Corporate Services

Office of the Economic Planning Advisory Council: Professor G. Withers, Director Mr E. Zinchenko, Administrative Officer, Corporate Services

Public Service Commission: Mr P. Kennedy, Deputy Public Service Commissioner Mr. E. Attridge, First Assistant Commissioner, Management Selection and Development Division

Mr B. Gleeson, Assistant Commissioner, SES Career Management

Branch Mr D. Gunzburg, Assistant Commissioner, Management Education and Development Branch Mr R. Harding, Assistant Commissioner, Redeployment and Ethics Branch Mr M. Kilner, Assistant Commissioner, Merit Recruitment and Selection Branch

Mr M. Jones, Director, SES Career and Policy Section Ms R. Martindale, Director, Corporate Support Unit

Office of the Commonwealth Ombudsman: Mr J. Taylor, Acting Senior Assistant Ombudsman Mr B. Hugg, Executive Officer

Merit Protection and Review Agency: Ms A. Forward, Director Mr A. Doolan, Associate Director

Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security: Mr P. Moss, Assistant Inspector-General

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee in the following order: variations not allocated to programs, programs 1.2, 6.4 (6.4 considered with 1.2), 2.2.1, 2.2.2, 3.3, 6.1 (6.1 considered with 3.3), 3.4, 3.5, 4.3, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 3.2.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER COMMISSION

In attendance: the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, Senator the Hon. Bob Collins, accompanied by the following officers:

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission: Dr P. Shergold, Chief Executive Officer Mr G. Reece, Deputy Chief Executive Officer

Mr R. Morony, General Manager, Economic Ms C. Rogers, Acting General Manager, Corporate Services Mr G. Menham, General Manager, Social and Cultural Mr B. Miller, Director, Office of Evaluation and Audit

Mr J. Eldridge, Assistant General Manager, Budget and Procedures Mr M. Chapman, Assistant General Manager, Land Heritage and Environment Ms C. Hagan, Assistant General Manager, Commercial

Ms H. Storey, Acting Assistant General Manager, Economic Program

Aboriginal Hostels Limited: Mr K. Clarke, Acting General Manager Mr J. Rooks, Assistant General Manager, Administration and Company Secretary

Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies: Dr W. Jonas, Principal Dr K. Palmer, Acting Deputy Principal

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commercial Development Corporation: Mr B. Kimmings, Acting General Manager Mr R. Cox, Corporate Controller

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee in the following order: variations not allocated to programs, programs Bl, B5, B6, C5.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In attendance: the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Foreign Affairs Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans accompanied by the following officers:

Americas and Europe Division: Mr Bill Paterson, Assistant Secretary North Asia Division:

Mr Murray McLean, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr Jeoff Benson, Assistant Secretary, North Asia Branch South and South East Asia Division: Mr Miles Kupa, First Assistant Secretary

Mr John Oliver, Assistant Secretary, South Asia and Indochina Branch Mr David Pearce, Acting Assistant Secretary, South East Asia Branch Ms Harriet Richards, Director, Indonesia Section Mr John Langmore, Director, Asian Projects Section South Pacific, Africa and Middle East Division

Mr Rob Laurie, First Assistant Secretary Public Affairs Division: Mr John Campbell, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Chris Stewart, Assistant Secretary, Overseas Information Branch Mr David Ambrose, Assistant Secretary, Cultural Relations Branch Mr Jim Mezies, Director, Management Administrative Coordination

Unit

Trade Negotiations Division: Mr Peter Grey, First Assistant Secretary Mr Graeme Thompson Mr John Creighton Mr Rick Wells Ms Jean Dunn Mr John Hannoush Mr Kevin Wilkinson Economic and Trade Development:

Mr Howard Bamsey, First Assistant Secretary International Organisation and Legal Division: Mr Bill Fisher, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Kevin Boreham, Assistant Secretary, IOB Mr Charles Mott, Assistant Secretary, ENB Mr Gordon Miller, Director RIA Ms Ann Moores, Acting Director HRS Mr David Stuart, Director, UPC Mr Roland Rich, Assistant Secretary, A.LA International Security Division:

Mr Ian Cousins, First Assistant Secretary Mr Peter Lloyd, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Assessments Branch Consular and Passports Division: Mr Max Hughes, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Geoff Allen, Assistant Secretary, Consular and Security Branch Mr Robert Hamilton, Acting Assistant Secretary, Consular and Passports Branch

Mr Graeme Thompson, Director, Consular Section

Corporate Services Division: Mr Bob Cotton, First Assistant Secretary Mr David Irvine, Assistant Secretary, CSD Ms Tonia Shand, Assistant Secretary, Services Branch

Mr Tony Vincent, Assistant Secretary, Audit and Evaluation Branch Ms Penny Richards, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch Mr David O'Leary, Assistant Secretary, Personnel Branch Mr Graeme Gregory, Acting Assistant Secretary, Information Technology Branch

Mr Richard Down, Director, Systems Information Section Mr Keith Hardy Mr Phillip Kentwell Mr Brian Babington

Mr Paul Comfort Mr Bill Barker Mr Graeme Swift Mr David Poulter

Ms Sandra Vegting Ms Leanne Caflisch Australian International Development Assistance Bureau: Mr Phillip Flood, Director General

Mr John Russell, Acting Deputy Director General, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division Dr Helen Ware, Assistant Director General, Program Development and Review Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division

Mr Bob Stensholt, Assistant Director General, South East Asia Branch, Asia, Africa and Community Programs Division Mr Robin Casson, Assistant Director General, Financial and Resource Management Branch, Corporate Development and Support Division

Mr Mick Commins, Assistant Director General, South Pacific and Training Branch, Pacific and International Programs Division Ms Elizabeth Brouwer, Acting Director, Economic and Rural Development Section, Papua New Guinea Branch, Pacific and

International Programs Division

Austrade: Mr Ralph Evans, Managing Director, Australian Trade Commission Mr Peter Langhorne, Executive General Manager, Corporate Affairs Mr Bruce Pollock, Acting General Manager, Corporate Finance and

Property Mr David Shires, General Manager, Government and Economic Affairs Mr Peter Downie, Regional Support Office Representative, Japan/Korea

Ms Paulette Quang, Regional Support Office Representative, East Asia Mr Des Walsh, Regional Support Office Representative, South East Asia Mr Terry Hunt, Regional Support Office Representative, Americas Mr John Cahill, Regional Support Office Representative, Europe Mr C. Plumley, Regional Support Office Representative, South Pacific Mr Dick Wilson, Regional Support Office Representative, Special Markets

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee in the following order: variations not allocated to programs, programs 1.7, 4.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.3, 8.

The following document was tabled:

AIDAB: Project Profiles - PNG - Australia.

The Committee suspended its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.12am.

8. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Ferguson, Jones, Kemp, Loosley O'Chee Panizza and Troeth. Senators Harradine, Hill, Margetts and Tambling also attended.

the Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade, Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan In attendance:

CONFIRMED

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 19 Friday 25 February 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in public session at 9.05am in the Main Committee Room.The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. OPENING STATEMENT:

The Chairman, Senator Childs, made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In attendance:

Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade— Americas and Europe Division: Mr I. Forsyth, Assistant Secretary, Americas North Asia Division:

Mr M. McLean, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr S. Kelly, Hong Kong/Macau/Taiwan Desk South and South East Asia Division: Mr M. Kupa, First Assistant Secretary

Mr J. Langmore, Director, Asian Projects Section South Pacific, Africa and Middle East Division: Mr M. Landale, Assistant Secretary, Middle East and Africa Branch Mr T. Sinkovits, Fijian Desk

Mr B. Blazey, New Zealand Desk Mr P. na Champassak, PNG Desk Public Affairs Division: Mr J. Campbell, First Assistant Secretary

Mr C. Stewart, Assistant Secretary, Overseas Information Branch Mr D. Ambrose, Assistant Secretary, Cultural Relations Branch Mr J. Mezies, Director, Management Administrative Coordination Unit

27

Trade Negotiations Divisions: Mr P. Grey, First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Creighton, Assistant Secretary, Agricultural Branch Mr R. Wells, Assistant Secretary, Services and Intellectual Property Ms J. Dunn, Assistant Secretary, Manufacturers and Minerals Branch Mr K. Wilkinson, Assistant Secretary, Multilateral Trade Organisations Branch Mr J. Hannoush Economic and Trade Development Division:

Mr H. Bamsey, First Assistant Secretary Mr A.J. Hely, Assistant Secretary, Trade Strategy Branch International Security Division: Mr I. Cousins, First Assistant Secretary, Strategic Assessments Branch Consular and Passports Division:

Mr M. Hughes, First Assistant Secretary Mr G. Allen, Assistant Secretary, Corporate and Security Branch Mr R. Hamilton, Acting Assistant Secretary, Consular and Passports Branch Mr G. Thompson, Director, Consular Section Corporate Services Division:

Mr B. Cotton, First Assistant Secretary Mr D. Irvine, Assistant Secretary Mr D. O'Leary, Assistant Secretary, Personnel Branch Mr G. Swift, Director, Budget and Resources Section Mr P. Kentwell, Director, Personnel Development Section Mr J. McAnulty, Acting Director, Services and Information Section Mr D. Poulter Ms S. Vegting Ms L. Caflisch

Austrade: Mr R. Evans, Managing Director, Australian Trade Commission Mr P. Langhorne, Executive General Manager, Corporate Affairs Mr B. Pollock, Acting General Manager, Corporate Finance and Property Mr D. Shires, General Manager, Government and Economic Affairs Regional Support Office:

Mr P. Downie, Japan/Korea Ms P. Quang, East Asia Mr D. Walsh, South East Asia Mr T. Hunt, Americas Mr J. Cahill, Europe Mr T. Williams, South Pacific

Mr D. Wilson, Special Markets

The Chairman called on programs 1 and 7 of the proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee.

The following document was tabled: . Austrade staff profile movements 30/6/91 - 31/1/94.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Transport— Mr P. Memer, Acting Deputy Secretary Aviation: Ms A. Buttsworth, Principal Adviser

Dr H. Milloy, Assistant Secretary, Aviation Infrastructure Industry Policy Branch Mr B. Smith, Manager, Canberra Operational Unit Mr C. Samuel, Director, International Relations

Land Transport: Mr C. Thorpe, First Assistant Secretary Maritime: Mr D. Anderson, Assistant Secretary, National Shipping and

Infrastructure Branch Ms E. Beaton, Executive Officer, Shipping Industry Reform Authority Corporate Direction and Support: Mr W. Ellis, First Assistant Secretary

Mr J. Doherty, Assistant Secretary, Legal and General Branch Mr J. Elliott, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budgeting Branch

The Chairman called on variations not allocated to program followed by programs 1.1, 2.1, 3.1 and 4.2 of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional

expenditure for the Department of Transport, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Administrative Services and Minister for Trade accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Communication and the Arts— Mr N. Stevens, Secretary Mr M. Hutchinson, Deputy Secretary, Communications Ms C. Santamaria, Acting Deputy Secretary, Arts Mr T. Shaw, First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Policy

Mr C. North, Principal Advisor, Broadcasting Policy Mr J. Adamson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Commercial Broadcasting Policy Branch Mr J. Neil, Assistant Secretary, Public Broadcasting Policy Branch Ms S. Page, Director, National Broadcasting Policy Branch Mr B. Vellinagel, Acting First Assistant Secretary,

Telecommunications Policy Ms F. Holthuyzen, Assistant Secretary, Regulatory Policy Branch Mr D. Yarra, Acting Assistant Secretary, Enterprise Policy Branch Mr G. Luther, Assistant Secretary, Broadband Services Expert Group Mr L. Neilson, Acting Convenor, Australian Cultural Development Office

Mr N. Small, Assistant Secretary, Arts Branch Dr K. Daniels, Assistant Secretary, Heritage and Industry Development Branch Mr R. Brent, Director, National Film and Sound Archive Mr B. Ellis, First Assistant Secretary, Management Support and Advice

Mr J. Elliott, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budgeting Branch Australian Film, Television and Radio School: Mr J. O'Harra, Director

Mr C. Hunt, Finance Manager Australian Telecommunications Authority: Mr R. Davey, Chairman Mr J. MacMahon, General Manager, Consumer Affairs Branch National Library of Australia:

Mr W. Horton, Director-General Mr D. Toll, Director, Executive Support and Policy Coordination

National Museum of Australia: Ms M. Coaldrak, Director Special Broadcasting Service Corporation: Mr A. Lloyd-Jam, Head Television

Mr Q. Luu, Head Radio Mr H. Chamas, Head Finance Spectrum Management Agency: Ms C. Goode, Acting Spectrum Manager

Mr J. Chandler, Manager, Corporate Resources Branch

The Chairman called on variations not allocated to program followed by programs 1.3, 2.2, 2.5, 3.1, 3.5, 3.8, 3.9, 3.10 and 4.3 of the proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Communications and the Arts, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 3.41pm.

7. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Alston, Baume, Brownhill, C. Evans, Jones, Kemp, Loosley, Tierney and Troeth. Senators Boswell, I. Macdonald and Patterson also attended.

Confirmed:

Senator B.K. Childs Chairman

31

1 .

2.

3.

4.

5.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 20 Tuesday, 1 March 1994

MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 1.50pm in the Advisor's area outside the Senate Chamber.The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF ANSWERS:

It was agreed that the deadline for the submission of answers to questions taken on notice be c.o.b. 7 March 1994.

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING:

It was agreed that the supplementary hearings be held on Friday, 18 March 1994, with the evening of Tuesday, 22 March reserved for further hearings if required.

ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 1.54pm.

ATTENDANCE:

Senators Childs, Ferguson, Kemp and Panizza.

Confirmed:

O

Senator B.K. Childs Chairman

32

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 21 Wednesday, 2 March 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 1.55pm in the Advisor's area outside the Senate Chamber. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. DRAFT REPORT:

The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report.

Amendments put forward by Senator Kemp were considered and agreed to.

The report was adopted.

4. ADJOURNMENT:

The Committee adjourned at 1.58pm.

5. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Childs, Jones and Kemp.

Confirmed:

Senator B.KL Childs Chairman

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 22

Friday, 18 March 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met at 9.05am in Committee Room 2S3, Parliament House, Canberra. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. SUPPLEMENTARY CONSIDERATION OF MATTERS RELATING TO THE PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993/94

The Committee commenced its supplementary examination of matters relating to the Proposed Additional Expenditure 1993/94 for the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Foreign Affairs and Trade and Communications and the Arts Portfolios, notice of these matters having been given by Senators in accordance with the Order of the Senate of 6 May 1993:

3. ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER COMMISSION

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission

Dr P. Shergold, Chief Executive Officer Mr R. Morony, General Manager, Economic Mr R. Beadman, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr G. Menham, General Manager, Social and Cultural Mr J. Eldridge, Assistant General Manager, Budget and Procedures Mr C. Plowman, Assistant General Manager, Community Services Mr M. Chapman, Assistant General Manager, Land Heritage and Environment Ms C. Hagan, Assistant General Manager, Commercial

34

Mr M. Brown, Manager, CDEP Administration

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

4. DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE

In attendance: Senator the Hon. Gareth Evans, Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Americas and Europe Division: Mr P. O'Sullivan, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. Fraser, Acting Assistant Secretary, Central Europe Branch North Asia Division:

Mr M. McLean, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Benson, Assistant Secretary, North Asia Branch South and South East Asia Division: Mr J. Oliver, Acting First Assistant Secretary

Mr R. Ahuja, Acting Assistant Secretary, South Asia and Indochina Branch Mr D. Pearce, Acting Assistant Secretary, South-East Asia Branch Mr P. Bui, Director, Vietnam/Laos Section

Mr P. Stonehouse, Executive Officer, Vietnam/Laos Section Mr J. Langtry, Director, Asian Projects Section South Pacific, Africa and Middle East Division: Mr G. Irwin, Assistant Secretary, South Pacific Branch

Public Affairs Division: Mr J. Campbell, First Assistant Secretary Mr J. Meszes, Director, Management Administrative Coordination Unit Trade Negotiations Divisions:

Mr J. Creighton, Assistant Secretary, Agricultural Branch Mr R. Wells, Assistant Secretary, Services and Intellectual Property Mr K. Wilkinson, Assistant Secretary, Multilateral Trade Organisations Branch

Mr M. Carney, Director, PRC Economic and Trade Development: Mr R. Hillman, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr M. Jordana, Director, APEC Branch

International Security Division:

Mr I. Cousins, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. Steele, Assistant Secretary, Strategic Assessments Branch Mr P. Lloyd, Strategic Assessments Branch Consular and Passports Division: Mr M. Hughes, First Assistant Secretary Mr G. Allen, Assistant Secretary, Corporate and Security Branch Mr D. Rutter, Assistant Secretary, Consular and Passports Branch Corporate Services Division: Mr R. Cotton, First Assistant Secretary Mr D. Irvine, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Mr D. O'Leary, Assistant Secretary, Personnel Branch Mr A. Vincent, Assistant Secretary, Audit and Evaluation Mr G. Swift, Director, Budget and Resources Section Mr P. Kentwell, Director, Personnel Development Section Mr J. Lander, Tertiary Language Studies Mr C. Schrosbree, Tertiary Language Studies Mr R. Down, Services Information Section Mr G. Wilson, Personnel Branch Mr D. Poulter, Budget and Resources Section Ms S. Vegting, Budget and Resources Section Ms L Caflisch, Budget and Resources Section International Organisations and Legal Division: Mr W. Fisher, First Assistant Secretary Mr K. Boreham, Assistant Secretary, International Organisations Branch Mr C. Moraitis, Acting Director, Human Rights Section Ms J. Linehan, Acting Legal Adviser A

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

5. DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE ARTS

In attendance: Senator the Hon. John Faulkner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister for Defence Science and Personnel, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Communication and the Arts

Mr N. Stevens, Secretary Mr B. Vellnagel, Acting First Assistant Secretary Ms F. Holthuyzen, Assistant Secretary, Regulatory Policy Branch Mr T. Dale, Director, Consumer and Pricing Policy Section

Mr G. Luther, Assistant Secretary, Broadband Services Expert Group Mr J. Elliott, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Budgeting Branch Australian Telecommunications Authority: Mr R. Davey, Chairman

Mr J. MacMahon, General Manager, Consumer Affairs Branch Ms L. Gordon, General Manager, Corporate Resources Branch

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination, subject to an undertaking to provide additional information.

6. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 12.27pm.

7. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Jones, Kemp, and Troeth. Senators Boswell, Gibson and Tambling also attended.

CONFIRMED

...

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 23

Wednesday, 23 March 1994

1. MEETING:

The Committee met in private session at 7.36pm in the Advisor's area outside the Senate Chamber, Parliament House, Canberra. The Chairman, Senator Childs, took the Chair.

2. MINUTES:

The Minutes of meetings Nos. 16-22 were confirmed.

3. REPORT ON SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

It was agreed that no report on the supplementary hearings be prepared.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 7.40pm.

5. ATTENDANCE

Senator Childs (Chairman), Senators Jones, Kemp and Troeth.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

B.K. CHILDS CHAIRMAN

38

E ST IM A T E S C O M M ITT EE B

R E P O R T TO T H E S E N A T E

M ARCH 1994

THE COMMITTEE

Members:

Senator Bryant Burns (ALP, QLD), Chairman Senator Kim Carr (ALP, VIC) Senator Grant Chapman (LP, SA) Senator Winston Crane (LP, WA) Senator Chris Evans (ALP, WA) Senator David MacGibbon (LP, QLD)

Senator Teague to replace Senator Crane for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs

Senator Minchin to replace Senator MacGibbon for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Industrial Relations and the Department of Tourism

Secretary:

Peter C. Grundy The Senate Parliament House Canberra Telephone: (06) 277 3598

40

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

MARCH 1994

INTRODUCTION

1 On 9 February 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994, and the particulars of certain proposed additional expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994. The following

departments had been allocated to Estimates Committee B by resolution of the Senate on 7 February 1994:

. Defence

. Veterans' Affairs

. Industrial Relations

. Tourism

2 The Committee met on Tuesday 22 February 1994 to examine the proposed additional expenditure. The Committee utilised the relevant departmental program performance statements and received evidence from the Minister for Defence (Senator Robert Ray), the Minister for Defence Science and Personnel and Minister

for Veterans' Affairs (Senator Faulkner) and officers of the departments and authorities concerned.

3 The Committee expresses its appreciation for the assistance of the Ministers and the officers of the departments and authorities who appeared before it.

4 This report includes the Committee's Minutes of Proceedings and an index to the Hansard report of the Committee's hearings. The Hansard report and additional information provided in response to questions taken on notice will be tabled separately.

5 The Committee draws attention to its resolution, carried at meeting 37/11 on 24 February 1994, that any supplementary meetings will be held on Friday 18 March 1994. Notice of matters for a supplementary hearing should be lodged with the Committee by 14 March 1994 pursuant to Procedural Order No. 10 of 6 May 1993.

41

D EPA R TM EN T O F D E F E N C E

Program 1 - Forces Executive Subprogram 1.3 - Personnel

6 The Committee sought advice from Defence about the consequences of the inclusion of certain conditions of service as assessable income for the payment of the family benefit; this came into effect from January 1994. Defence advised that the Department of Social Security would have details about the number of Defence Force families whose social security payments had been reduced since January. Nevertheless, Defence estimated that about 3,000 families could be affected, and that the average effect is about $40 per fortnight. Defence confirmed that every married person in the ADF had received a letter setting out the extent of the legislation and its possible implications.

Program 2 - N avy Subprogram 2.1 - Combat Forces

7 Navy told the Committee that the projected recruitment to the ready reserve had not been achieved. At an Estimates hearing on 27 March 1992, the Minister had stated that Navy "had better achieve its target over the years or it will come out of its hide"; nevertheless, Navy admitted to the Committee that it now did not appear that the target would be met in the short term. While the goal is to have 450 in the ready reserve by June 1997, at present there is "barely" 86. The Committee was advised that there is a complexity of reasons for this situation not the least of which is that those leaving the service - and who would have been

expected to be the prime source of recruiting - cannot make themselves available for the necessary fifty days service each year; employers are finding increasing difficulty in releasing people for that time.

8 The Minister assured the Committee that the concept of ready reserves was to be reviewed. The issue of the preparedness of regulars leaving the service and not wishing to enlist in the ready reserve would be examined and a number of measures would be devised to meet the problem. This review would commence by

the end of 1994 and take about six months to complete.

Program 3 - A rm y Subprogram 3.1 - Combat Forces

9 Army confirmed to the Committee that its recruiting activities were "entirely satisfactory"; the full-time recruiting target of 885 for 1994 was expected to be met. 6 Battalion was the focus for the deployment of recruits and where they would achieve their full-time training.

42

10 Nevertheless difficulty remained with category 2 recruiting - that out of ex­ regular and general reserve. Army advised that the shortfall for category 2 recruiting was 517; the service is examining how to meet the category 2 target in

a way th at allows the ready reservists to receive the training and achieve the standards required.

Program 4 - A ir Force Subprogram 4.2 - Executive

11 The Minister was asked about the current status of the Laverton and Point Cook RAAF bases. The Committee was advised that the force structure review had examined all of the air force bases and concluded th a t there were too many. The review recommended that several aspects of Laverton and Point Cook be either

closed or transferred. The initial pilot training school eventually went to Tamworth and the radio school from Laverton went to Wagga Wagga.

12 In principle, the Government is intending to train service personnel on a multi-service basis rather than having three separate training areas. Senator Ray indicated that Australia has too many training institutions and that efficiency gains are being sought from a reduction. With regard to Point Cook, the Minister advised

the Committee that some functions will remain there. Further, Point Cook has great historical significance; it was the RAAF's first base. Nevertheless, some of its operations may be surplus to requirements.

13 A final decision is yet to be taken about the disposal of Laverton. It is of little value as an airfield, but it is a particularly valuable site with enormous potential for future development.

Program 5 - Strategy and Intelligence

14 The Minister provided the Committee with advice about the status of the Nurrungar joint facility. Discussions have progressed in relation to a variety of reviews being undertaken in the United States aimed at reducing th at country's defence budget by 25 per cent.

15 As a consequence of the adjustments to be made, technological solutions have been proposed. The conjunction of technological advances and the need on the part of the US to reduce expenditure would put the long-term future of Nurrungar (as

it is currently constituted) in some doubt. As a consequence of technological advances it may well be that Nurrungar will not remain in its current configuration much beyond the year 2000.

16 It is probable that more definitive advice will be available by the end of 1994 as to the future of Nurrungar. The Minister confirmed that as a joint facility, Australia has access to the intelligence secured by Nurrungar and that this would

be part of Australia's negotiating position with regard to any new arrangements.

43

Program 6 - Acquisition and Logistics Subprogram 6.1 - Major Capital Equipment

17 The Committee inquired about the status of the Collins class submarine program. The Minister confirmed that this program has drawn some criticisms although most were not only unfair but grossly inaccurate. Minor problems are always anticipated in a project of this kind, and they have been dealt with adequately. The one problem of concern that remains is the late delivery of software

for the combat system. A variety of meetings have been held with the prime contractor (Rockwell International) and the subcontractor. The Minister would be having discussions with Rockwell; and various suggestions have been devised to minimise delays.

18 Navy confirmed that it is notoriously difficult to plan the introduction of combat system software. Six or seven years ago when the plans and programs for Collins were being finalised a reasonable date was specified; in the event it has not been possible to meet that date. The development of the combat system software

was always the major risk area in the program.

Program 7 - Budget and Management Subprogram 7.1 - Personnel and Management

19 The Committee noted an increase of $10 million for guarding services. Defence advised that advantage had been taken of a "commercial opportunity" to pay in advance for guarding services and to receive a discount as a consequence. The Department confirmed that the contractor involved was Australian Protective Services and that the discount was of the order of three to four per cent.

20 The Committee notes the advice of Defence that this is the first occasion on which the Department has made a payment in advance to a public instrumentality, attracting a discount. Defence explained that if a discount equal to or better than the bond rate which is being raised by government can be secured, then it is budget- neutral to the government. It is then a matter of management of Defence activities

over time "trying to overcome the artificiality at the end of financial year barriers".

44

D EPA R TM EN T O F V ETER A N S' AFFAIRS

Program 1 - Benefits Subprogram 1.1 - Income Support

21 The Committee inquired about the incidence of incorrect cards being sent to veterans as p art of the distribution of the new pensioner concession card. The Department indicated that there were complaints "in the hundreds rather than in the thousands" concerning this matter. According to the Department there was a

programming problem and processes had been put in place to ensure th a t it did not occur again. The Department confirmed that it was in the process of negotiating a reduced bill from the contractor. The bill also would be reduced because of problems with the quality of the card.

Subprogram 1.4 - H ousing Assistance

22 Defence Service Homes does not participate in the Insurance Industries Complaints Council and the Committee sought an explanation for this situation. The Defence Service Homes scheme comes under the auspices of the Commonwealth Ombudsman. The Department explained that when the Insurance Council of Australia set up a claims review tribunal, a decision was made to wait until the

tribunal was well-established before making an assessment whether it would be of additional benefit to Defence Service Homes insurance clients. T hat review was being conducted.

23 The Department was having discussions with the Insurance Council of Australia as to the "appropriateness" of the Defence Service Homes Insurance scheme joining the industry-based panel or not, and what the fee structure would be. The Department was reluctant to pass on an increase in rates to all Defence

Service Homes policy holders; further, those policy holders already have an ombudsman mechanism through which to complain. A paper on the review was imminent.

Program 2 - Health Subprogram 2 .2 - DVA Health Care Services

24 The Committee also sought advice about the future of the Greenslopes Repatriation Hospital. The Minister stated that, in principle, there were three options: integration, privatisation and closure. Senator Faulkner expressed confidence th a t in the case of Greenslopes the hospital can be sold to a private

operator and that the repatriation private patients scheme would be introduced in Queensland. The Minister assured the Committee that there was no agreement between the Commonwealth and Queensland Governments to close the Greenslopes Hospital. It is the Minister's intention to progress the privatisation of the hospital

"with great vigour".

45

25 Further, the Committee heard advice about the issue of a causal link between smoking and colorectal cancer and other malignancies; the ADF had been provided with cigarettes and tobacco in ration packs and at low cost in messes until recently. The Department acknowledged the existence of studies into this m atter but did not have copies of them. Once the studies were received from the United States, the Department would put a submission to the Repatriation Commission as to the possible effects on veterans' claims.

Subprogram 2.3 - Community Health Care Services

26 The Committee was advised by the Department that the private nursing agency in north-west Tasmania, Kareline, had its provider status revoked on the ground that the agency had been involved in inappropriate levels of servicing. The Department stated that Kareline had admitted its level of overservicing and that this involved up to three times the servicing that would be expected. Such overservicing could encourage dependency on the part of the client.

27 The Department confirmed that, while some initial discussions had taken place with the Tasmanian State ombudsman on this matter, the report by the ombudsman had not been received. The Department has agreed to examine Kareline's response to the ombudsman to see whether there was anything that would change the circumstances that have already been investigated.

46

DEPA R TM EN T O F IND USTRIAL R ELATIO NS

Program 3 - Corporate Direction and Support Subprogram 3.2 - Legal and International

28 The Committee noted that an additional $1,350,500 was sought for the International Labour Organisation. The Department confirmed that the original amount sought for this item was $3,857,000. It was explained that Australia's contribution to the ILO in round figures was about $4.8 million two years ago; last year it was reduced to just under $4 million because of special circumstances such

as the return of surplus cash because the ILO had received money outside its normal accounting period and could not spend the money within its biennial financial period. That money, under the financial regulations of the ILO, was actually returned to the member states. In addition, there was a review of the working

capital fund of the ILO in that period. The outcome of these and other factors resulted in a reduction in Australia's ILO contribution last year to $4 million; this year it has reverted to the $5 million figure. 1993 was an unusually low year in terms of Australia's contribution to the ILO.

29 The Department confirmed that the process involved here is not one where an inquiry is made of the ILO as to the contribution required for the coming year. Rather, advice is forthcoming when the International Labor Conference has set the amount. At the time that the Australian Government's 1993-94 budget estimates were being developed, that information was not available, and as a best estimate the

figure for the previous year had been used.

30 Subprogram 3.2 also covers a supplementation of $3,070,000 for the establishment and operation of the Industrial Relations Court of Australia. The Minister advised that the decision about this court was not taken by Cabinet until October/November and that it had yet to be determined whether the Department of

Industrial Relations would be responsible for the costs of running the court on an annual basis. Further, the Department stated that any offset savings as a consequence of the abolition of the industrial division of the Federal Court would need to be identified by the Attorney- General's Department. While the question of

ongoing responsibility has yet to be determined between portfolios, the establishment and operational costs of the court, which will commence operation on 30 March 1994, are provided for the remainder of this financial year under the Industrial Relations portfolio.

47

D EPA R TM EN T O F TOURISM

Program 1 - Tourism Subprogram 1.3 - International and Industry Development

31 The Committee inquired about progress made through the national tourism strategy announced by the Minister in June 1992. The Department responded that eighteen months after the publication of the strategy the Minister had released a report on implementation and strategy. One example of the measures taken is the setting up of the Tourism Forecasting Council which is designed to provide a better

information base for investors in making decisions about the industry. In the area of regulation, there has been considerable work done on aviation regulation, in which the Department worked with the then Department of Transport and Communications.

_ H v 'u U ' ,-v O

Senator B R Burns (Chairman)

48

T H E SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 9

TUESDAY 22 FEBRUARY 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met in public session at 4.33 pm in Committee Room 2S1, Parliament House. Senator Burns took the Chair.

2. APOLOGY

Senator Crane.

3. CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT

The Chairman made an opening statement.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Robert Ray and officers of the Department of Defence and the Australian Defence Force listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration. The proposed expenditure is set out in the Program Peformance Statements 1993­ 94 for the Defence portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Forces Executive

Subprogram 1.1 -

1.2 -1.3 -1.4 -1.5 -

1.6 -1.7 -

Program 2 - Navy

Subprogram 2.1 -

2.2 -2.3 -2.4 -

Strategic Operations and Plans Military Strategic and Force Development Personnel Emergency Management

Executive Support ADF Superannuation Defence Housing

Combat Forces Executive Logistic Support Training

49

Program 3 - Army

Subprogram 3.1 - Combat Forces 3.2 - Executive 3.3 - Base Logistics 3.4 - Individual Training 3.5 - Support

Program 4 - Air Force

Subprogram 4.1 - Combat Forces 4.2 - Executive 4.3 - Logistics 4.4 - Training

Program 5 - Strategy and Intelligence

Subprogram 5.1 - Policy and Support 5.2 - New Major Investment 5.3 - Intelligence 5.4 - Defence Cooperation

Program 6 - Acquisition and Logistics

Subprogram 6.1 - Major Capital Equipment 6.2 - Facilities 6.3 - Logistics 6.4 - Industry Involvement and Contracting

Program 7 - Budget and Management

Subprogram 7.1 - Personnel and Management 7.2 - Finance .

7.3 - Program Delivery Assessment 7.4 - Regional Support

Program 8 - Science and Technology

Subprogram 8.1 - Aeronautical Research 8.2 - Electronics Research 8.3 - Materials Research 8.4 - Surveillance Research 8.5 - Executive

50

5. A D JO U R N M EN T

The Committee adjourned from 6.32 pm until 8.01 pm.

Consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Defence portfolio was completed at 9.26 pm.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. John Faulkner and officers of the Department of Veterans' Affairs listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration. The proposed expenditure is set out in the Program Performance Statements 1993-94 for the Veterans' Affairs portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Benefits

Subprogram 1.1 -

1.2 -1.3 -1.4 -

Program 2 - Health

Subprogram 2.1 -

2.2 -2.3 -2.4 -

Program 3 - War Graves

Subprogram 3.1 -

3.2 -

Program 4 - Corporate Services

Subprogram 4.1 -

4.2 -4.3 -4.4 -

Program 5 - War Memorial

Subprogram 5.1 -

5.2 -5.3 -5.4 -5.5 -

Income Support Compensation Veterans' Review Board Housing Assistance

Treatment Management DVA Health Care Services Community Health Care Services Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service

Commemorations Care and Maintenance

Executive Support Information and Office Management Financial and Assets Management Human Resource Management

National Collection Public Programs Specialist Services Corporate Services

Official History

51

7. A D JO U R N M EN T

The Committee completed consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Veterans' Affairs portfolio at 11.07 pm and resumed the hearing at 11.11 pm.

8. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Robert Ray and officers of the Department of Industrial Relations listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration. The proposed expenditure is set out in the Program Performance Statements 1993-94 for the Industrial Relations portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Industrial Relations Policy Development, Workplace Reform and Best Practice

Subprogram 1.1 - Policy Development and Advice 1.5 - Australian Industrial Relations Commission and Australian Industrial Registry

Program 2 - Public Sector Workplace Development and Services

Subprogram 2.3 - Remuneration Tribunal

Program 3 - Corporate Direction and Support

Subprogram 3.2 - Legal and International 3.3 - Corporate Development

9. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Robert Ray and officers of the Department of Tourism listed in the Hansard of the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration. The proposed expenditure is set out in the Program Performance Statements 1993-94 for the Tourism portfolio as follows:

Program 1 - Tourism

Subprogram 1.3 - International and Industry Development

52

10. A D JO U R N M EN T

The Committee adjourned at 12.04 am on Wednesday 23 February 1994.

Present: Senator B. Burns

Senator K. Carr Senator G. Chapman Senator C. Evans Senator D. MacGibbon

Senator N. Minchin Senator B. Teague

Senator R. Kemp Senator D. Margetts Senator J. Newman Senator G. Tambling

In Attendance: Peter C. Grundy (Committee Secretary)

CONFIRMED

■)

/ '- V t r <

Senator B.R. Burns (Chairman)

53

T H E SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 10

WEDNESDAY 23 FEBRUARY 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met in private session at 12.05 am in Committee Room 2S1, Parliament House. Senator Burns took the Chair.

2. APOLOGIES

Senators Carr, Crane and MacGibbon.

3. MINUTES

Senator Burns moved adoption of the draft minutes for meetings 37/7 and 37/8. The motion was carried on the voices.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 12.06 am.

Present: Senator B. Burns

Senator G. Chapman Senator C. Evans

In Attendance: Peter C. Grundy (Committee Secretaiy)

CONFIRMED

Senator B.R. Burns (Chairman)

54

T H E SENATE

ESTIM ATES CO M M ITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 11

THURSDAY 24 FEBRUARY 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 12.53 pm in the Government Advisers' Lobby adjacent to the Senate Chamber. Senator Burns took the Chair.

2. COMMITTEE RESOLUTIONS

Senator Carr moved:

That Tuesday 8 March 1994 be fixed as the last day for submission to Estimates Committee B of written answers or additional information relating to the bills for additional expenditure for 1993-94.

That any supplementary meetings of the Committee be held on Friday 18 March 1994.

The motions were carried on the voices.

3. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 12.54 pm.

Present: Senator B. Burns

Senator K. Carr Senator C. Evans

In Attendance: Peter C. Grundy (Committee Secretary)

CONFIRMED

Senator B.R. Burns (Chairman)

55

T H E SENATE

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO. 12

WEDNESDAY 2 MARCH 1994

1 .

2.

3.

MEETING

The Committee met at 7.28 pm in the Government Advisers' Lobby adjacent to the Senate Chamber. Senator Bums took the Chair.

MINUTES

The Committee agreed on the Minutes for meetings No. 37/9, 37/10 and 37/11.

DRAFT REPORT

Senator Carr moved:

That the Chairman's draft be adopted as the report of the Committee.

The motion was carried on the voices.

ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned at 7.30 pm.

Present: Senator B. Bums

Senator K. Carr Senator C. Evans

In Attendance: Peter C. Gmndy (Committee Secretary)

CERTIFIED CORRECT

Senator B.R. Bums (Chairman)

56

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE B - IN D EX TO HANSARD

TUESDAY 22 FEBRUARY 1994

Page

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

Officers in attendance B1

Introduction - Chairman B1

Variations not allocated to Programs B3

Program 1 - Forces Executive

Subprogram 1.1 - Strategic Operations and Plans B9

Subprogram 1.4 - Emergency Management Australia B12

Subprogram 1.5 - Executive Support B12

Program 2 - Navy

Subprogram 2.1 - Combat Forces B13

Subprogram 2.2 - Executive B14

Program 3 - Army

Subprogram 3.1 - Combat Forces B16

Subprogram 3.3 - Base Logistics B18

Subprogram 3.5 - Support B18

Program 4 - Air Force

Subprogram 4.1 - Combat Forces B20

Subprogram 4.2 - Executive B20

Program 5 - Strategy and Intelligence

Subprogram 5.2 - New Major Investment B24

Subprogram 5.4 - Defence Cooperation B24

Program 6 - Acquisition and Logistics

Subprogram 6.1 - Major Capital Equipment B25

Subprogram 6.2 - Facilities B34

57

Program 7 - Budget and Management

Subprogram 7.1 - Personnel and Management B41

Program 8 - Science and Technology

Subprogram 8.1 - Aeronautical Research B42

Subprogram 8.4 - Surveillance Research B42

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS

Officers in attendance B43

Introduction - Chairman B44

Program 1 - Benefits

Subprogram 1.1 - Income Support B44

Subprogram 1.2 - Compensation B45

Subprogram 1.4 - Housing Assistance B46

Program 2 - Health

Subprogram 2.2 - DVA Health Care B47

Subprogram 2.3 - Community Health Care Services B51

Subprogram 2.4 - Vietnam Veteran Counselling Services B63

Program 3 - War Graves Program B64

Program 4 - Corporate Services

Subprogram 4.3 - Financial and Assets Management B64

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Officers in attendance B64

Variations not allocated to programs B65

Program 1 - Industrial Relations Policy Development, Workplace Reform and Best Practice

Subprogram 1.5 - Australian Industrial Relations Commission and Australian Industrial Registry B66

Subprogram 1.1 - Policy Development and Advice B67

58

Program 3 - Corporate Direction and Advice

Subprogram 3.3 - Legal and International

DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM

Officers in attendance

Program 1 - Tourism

Subprogram 1.3 - International and Industry Development

B68

B73

B74

59

60

E S T IM A T E S C O M M IT T E E B

S E C O N D R E PO R T TO T H E S E N A T E

A D D IT IO N A L E S T IM A T E S 1 9 9 3 -9 4

MARCH 1994

T H E C O M M IT T E E

Members:

Senator Bryant Bum s (ALP, QLD), Chairman Senator Kim C arr (ALP, VIC) Senator G rant Chapman (LP, SA) Senator Winston Crane (LP, WA) Senator Chris Evans (ALP, WA) Senator David MacGibbon (LP, QLD)

Senator Teague to replace Senator Crane for the consideration of the estim ates of the Departm ent of Defence and the Departm ent of V eterans’ Affairs

Senator Minchin to replace Senator MacGibbon for the consideration of the estimates of the D epartm ent of Industrial Relations and the D epartm ent of Tourism

Secretary:

Peter C. Grundy The Senate Parliam ent House Canberra Telephone: (06) 277 3598

62

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

SECOND REPORT TO THE SENATE

ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES 1993-94

INTRODUCTION

1 On 9 February 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994, and the particulars of certain proposed additional expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994. The following

departm ents had been allocated to Estim ates Committee B by resolution of the Senate on 7 February 1994:

. Defence

. Veterans’ Affairs

. Industrial Relations

. Tourism

2 The Committee met on Tuesday 22 February 1994 to examine the proposed additional expenditure. The Committee utilised the relevant departmental program performance statem ents and received evidence from the Minister for Defence (Senator Ray), the M inister for Defence Science and Personnel and M inister for V eterans’ Affairs (Senator Faulkner) and officers of the departments

and authorities concerned. The Committee’s report was tabled in the Senate on Thursday 3 M arch in compliance with the resolution of the Senate of 9 February 1994.

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING

3 P u rsu an t to Procedural Order No. 10 of 6 May 1993, the Committee

received notice of the following m atters for a supplementary hearing:

D ep artm en t o f V eterans’ Affairs

Prog 1 - Benefits

Prog 2 - Health

Prog 5 - War Memorial

Sub Prog 1.1 — Income Support Sub Prog 1.2 - Compensation Sub Prog 2.2 - DVA Health Care Services Sub Prog 2.3 — Community H ealth Care Services

Sub Prog 2.4 — Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service

63

Departm ent o f D efence

Prog 1 — Forces Executive Sub Prog 1.3 — Personnel Sub Prog 1.6 - ADF Superannuation

Prog 2 - Navy Sub Prog 2.3 - Logistics Support

Prog 6 — Acquisition and Sub Prog 6.1 — Major Capital Equipment Logistics

The Committee m et on Friday 18 March to examine these m atters. The appreciation of the Committee is expressed to the Ministers and officers who appeared before it.

RECOMMENDATION

4 Having concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for 1993-94, Estimates Committee B recommends:

That the proposed expenditure, in accordance with the estim ates referred to the Committee, be approved by the Senate without amendment or request.

Senator B.R. Bum s (C hairm an)

64

T H E S E N A T E

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO.13

FRIDAY 18 MARCH 1994

MEETING

The Committee met in public session a t 9.03am in Committee Room 1R1, P arliam ent House. Senator Bum s took the Chair.

APOLOGY

Senators Chapman and Teague.

CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT

The Chairm an made an opening statement.

PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 — DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. John Faulkner and officers of the D epartm ent of Veterans’ Affairs listed in the H ansard of the hearing.

The Chairm an called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration in accordance with notices of m atters received:

Prog 1 - Benefits

Prog 2 - H ealth

Sub Prog 1.1 - Income Support Sub Prog 1.2 - Compensation Sub Prog 2.2 - DVA Health Care Services Sub Prog 2.3 — Community H ealth Care Services Sub Prog 2.4 — Vietnam Veterans Counselling

Service

Prog 5 - War Memorial

ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned from 10.28am until 10.36am.

65

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE

In Attendance: Senator the Hon. Robert Ray and officers of the Department of Defence and the Australian Defence Force listed in the Hansard for the hearing.

The Chairman called on the programs of proposed expenditure for consideration in accordance with notice of m atters received.

Prog 1 - Forces Executive Sub Prog 1.3 - Personnel Sub Prog 1.6 — ADF Superannuation

Prog 2 - Navy Sub Prog 2.3 - Logistics Support

Prog 6 - Acquisition and Sub Prog 6.1 - Major Capital Equipment Logistics

7. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned a t 11.43am.

Present: Senator B. Bums

Senator K Can- Senator D. MacGibbon Senator J. McKieman

Senator R. Kemp

In Attendance: Peter C. Grundy (Committee Secretary)

CONFIRMED

Senator B.R. Bum s (C h airm an )

66

T H E SEN A TE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

NO.14

WEDNESDAY 23 MARCH 1994

1. MEETING

The Committee met at 7.40pm in the Government Advisers' Lobby adjacent to the Senate Chamber. Senator Bums took the Chair.

2. MINUTES

The Committee agreed on the Minutes for meeting No. 37/13.

3. DRAFT REPORT

Senator Carr moved:

That the Chairman's draft Second Report on the Additional Estimates 1993-94 be adopted as the report of the Committee.

The motion was carried on the voices.

4. ADJOURNMENT

The Committee adjourned from 7.41pm.

Present: Senator B. Bums

Senator K. Carr Senator C. Evans

In Attendance: Peter C. Grundy (Committee Secretary)

CERTIFIED CORRECT

Senator B.R. Bums (Chairman)

67

68

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIM A TES C O M M ITTEE C

R E P O R T TO T H E SE N A T E

MARCH 1994

MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair) (Queensland)

Senator Kay Denman (Tasmania)

Senator Ian Macdonald (Queensland) t

Senator Jocelyn Newman (Tasmania) Φ

Senator Kay Patterson (Victoria) Ψ

Senator Sue West (New South Wales)

t Senator Grant Tambling to replace Senator Ian Macdonald for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Human Services and Health

Φ Senators Michael Baume and Noel Crichton-Browne to replace Senators Newman and Patterson for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories

Secretariat

Elton Humphery, Secretary Peter Short, Research Officer Leonie Peake, Research Officer

70

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C presents its Report to the Senate.

Introduction

1. On 9 February 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 and the particulars of certain proposed additional expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the

following departments:

• Human Services and Health

• Environment, Sport and Territories

2. The Committee has considered the expenditure of the portfolios as in their respective Program Performance Statements and has received explanations of the additional estimates at the Committee's hearings on 22 February 1994 (Environment, Sport and Territories) and 28 February and 1 March 1994 (Human

Services and Health) from Senator the Hon Graham Richardson, Minister for Health, and Senator the Hon Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, and officers from the relevant Departments. The Committee expresses its appreciation for the assistance of the Ministers and the officers who appeared before it.

3. This report includes the Committee's Minutes of Proceedings, a table of contents to the Hansard reports, and a list of questions taken on notice during the Committee's consideration of the estimates. The Hansard transcripts of evidence and answers to questions taken on notice prior to and at the Committee's hearings will be tabled separately in the Senate. Hansard transcripts of evidence relating

to the Committee's supplementary hearings on 25 October 1993 and 15 November 1993 are also tabled for the information of the Senate.

A number of matters discussed by the Committee are referred to in the following sections. The table of contents to the Hansard attached to this report provides a complete list of the subjects considered by the Committee.

71

4. ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO

Variations not allocated to programs

A range of issues relating to the allocation and administration of funding for various projects within the department were discussed during the public hearing. Particular concentration was placed upon the grants to voluntary conservation

organisations (GVCO) and funding for Landcare projects. The administration of these projects was compared with that for the Community Cultural, Recreation and Sporting Facilities Program (CCRSFP).

Matters in relation to the GVCO and Landcare projects considered by the Committee included the assessment of the applications and projects against guidelines, format of the advice and recommendations submitted to the Minister assessing applications received against the guidelines, criteria governing the program or provided by assessment panels in relation to Landcare projects, the level of acceptance by the Minister of this advice and recommendations and the administration of the projects by the department following their approval by the Minister, including announcements relating to the disbursement of funds.1

In respect of the CCRSFP, the Committee considered the history of the program since its inception following a commitment made by the Government in 1987, the operation of the program during Senator Richardson's period as the responsible Minister, the development of program guidelines and selection criteria, allocation of applications into categories by the department, provision of schedules listing categorisation to the Minister, representations by Parliamentarians and others in support of applications, contact between the Minister's office and departmental officials seeking further information on applications, and administration by the department following determination by the Minister of the successful applications.1 2

Program 1 — Environment

Benders Pty Ltd — ex gratia payment

The increase of $2.246m required to meet an ex gratia payment to Benders Pty Ltd for closure of the Lune River limestone quarry located in the Tasmanian Wilderness World Heritage Area was the subject of questioning. The department advised that although there was an initial offer of $476,000 to facilitate the transfer of the quarrying operation to another site, it had subsequently become

apparent that such a transfer was not an option and that the matter of the financial loss associated with the mine's closure had to be considered. This became

1. Hansard, 22 February 1994, pp.8-13, 18.

ibid., pp.20-45. 2.

72

the subject of an independent assessment which reported in December 1993. The assessor's report provided the basis for the enlarged ex gratia payment which was agreed upon by the parties involved. The department noted that rehabilitation of the former quarry is almost complete.3

Lead abatement program

The issue of the $4.285m allocated for the Government's lead abatement program was also questioned. The Committee was informed that this money was essentially aimed at convincing people through extensive promotional programs to change the way they deal with the most common occurrences of lead, in particular, getting

people to switch from leaded to unleaded petrol. There are also initiatives in relation to lead in paint and the provision of information to heath professionals and industry. A consultative group involving representatives from industry and community groups, the States and the Commonwealth has been involved with the

implementation of the program at every stage.4 5

Great Barrier R eef Marine Park Authority

The Chairman of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, Professor Kelleher, expressed concern at the possible implications for the Authority's funding of legal issues which may arise from the Native Title legislation. Professor Kelleher indicated that approximately 10 per cent of the Authority's

human resources were diverted to Aboriginal and Islander issues. The question was raised as to whether the Authority should be provided with additional resources to compensate this expenditure. The Chair suggested that the consultative arrangements that are in place, or being developed between the

Authority and the Aboriginal and Islander people as described by Professor Kelleher, could provide the basis for the negotiation of regional agreements which under the legislation would preclude the need for a legal approach.'’

Professor Kelleher also referred to concerns for the future of the Great Barrier Reef Wonderland Complex in Townsville. Although the Complex was established as a bicentennial project, Professor Kelleher indicated that there is inadequate funding for promotional activities for the Complex, which is an important

attraction for the tourist industry in the area. Professor Kelleher suggested that without higher levels of promotional funding to increase patronage, some form of handover to private enterprise may become essential. It is noted that this Complex currently receives 9.1 per cent of its funding through government assistance, which

compares with other national institutions which receive funding between 60 and 97 per cent.6

3. Hansard, 22 February 1994, pp.56-59.

4. ibid., pp.64-67.

5. ibid., pp.77-80.

6. ibid, pp.80-1; see also answer to question on notice, Additional Information.

73

Program 5 — Territories

Christmas Island

The implementation of a range of state-type taxes on Christmas Island from 1 January 1994 was considered. The Committee was advised that based on the initial payment of the casino licence fee for the period 5 November- 31 December 1993 of $3.175m, the estimated annual revenue from this fee would be around $8m. This figure takes into account a drop off following the interest associated with the casino's opening.

5. HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Health Advancement

Female genital mutilation

Concern was raised about the extent to which female genital mutilation is practised within Australia. The practice of genital mutilation when undertaken for ritual purposes is not legal. However, the Medicare Benefits Schedule contains items which provides for a procedure which may be performed for medically necessary reasons such as for treatment associated with cancer and birth defects. The department provided information that 223 claims were made against these items in 1992-93. Departmental medical advice indicates that the number of claims is of the level expected given the nature of the conditions they are intended to cover.7

The Committee supports the need for developing an educative program on the unacceptability of female genital mutilation and the danger thereof. It also considers that it is vitally important that this sensitive issue be raised as a priority in discussions between Commonwealth and State Health Ministers and departments.8 9

Breast-cancer screening

The Committee was advised that by 30 November 1993 124,568 breast-cancer screenings had occurred out of a financial year target of 440,000. The department expects the screening program to expand during the second half of the financial year to enable the target to be met.

7. Data on circumcision, answer to question on notice, see Additional Information.

8. Hansard, 28 February 1994, pp.107-8.

9. ibid, pp.108-9.

74

Response to the Burdekin Report on Mental Health

Discussion focussed on the timing of the Government's response to the Burdekin report on mental health and the further community consultations in determining priorities for responding to the Burdekin report. Senator Richardson advised the Committee that the Government's response would be included in the May budget,

in which it would be clear that in the budget submissions there was a significant bid for funds in the mainstream health system for mental health.10 1 1

Other issues raised by Committee members relating to the mental health area included links between mental illness, in particular schizophrenia, and marijuana use; Medicare rebates for psychologists; training of aboriginal mental health workers; promotion of the issue of mental illness; moves towards uniformity in

Commonwealth and State legislation under the National Mental Health Plan and policy; the number of hospital beds available for mental health patients; and funding of the Australian National Association for Mental Health.11

Program 3 — Family and Children's Services

Child Care Fee Relief

Committee members questioned the additional estimate of $42.080m for Child Care Fee Relief. This was explained in the Program Performance Statements as reflecting a higher than anticipated number of private centre places, an increase in the per place unit rate of Childcare Assistance and other increases associated

with indexation and the Superannuation Guarantee charge.

The Committee was advised that the initial estimate of 9,625 additional private sector child-care places had risen to 13,750. This had resulted from the rapid growth rate over the last few years since child care assistance was extended to the private sector and not levelling out as anticipated.

The Committee was also advised that the increase in the per place unit of Child Care Assistance resulted from the increase in places, more people receiving the maximum level of child-care assistance than estimated, more people receiving higher levels of assistance, and more people receiving any assistance at all.

The Committee notes that the additional estimate of $42m for this program compares with an additional sum of $30m being required in the previous financial year. The department indicated that with a couple of years' data and some fairly constant parameter changes over two years, it will be in a better position to model

and predict increases for future budgets.12

10. Hansard, 28 February 1994, pp.110-13.

11. ibid, pp.114-19.

12. ibid, pp.86-92.

75

The Committee noted that the Government's election promise to provide child care for sick children had not yet been met due to unforseen problems with industry and child-care workers which do not appear to regard the proposals as being viable.13

International Year o f the Family activities

A number of issues relating to International Year of the Family activities were raised by members of the Committee. These included arrangements between the Commonwealth and States regarding the securing of corporate sponsorship for International Year of the Family activities, funding and planning for the national

conference to be held in South Australia later in 1994, consultations by the Council leading to the production of a national discussion paper on International Year of the Family activities which is expected to be released shortly, production of promotional material for International Year of the Family, project funding and clarification of the roles of the International Year of the Family Council, the Minister and the department.14

In its October 1993 report, the Committee identified a number of issues relating to the planning of International Year of the Family.15 Therefore, a number of members expressed concern and frustration at ongoing delays, particularly those associated with the consultation and administrative processes.

Program 5 — Disability Services

Progress with the implementation of a number of programs and reviews was discussed. In respect of the strategic review of the Commonwealth Disability Services program, the Committee was informed that the principal consultant is due to report to the Minister by the end of 1994. It is anticipated that a draft report will be released in August — September, to be followed by further consultations prior to the report's finalisation.

The Australian Disability Strategy is being developed in two stages. Firstly, the draft strategy produced to date has been developed through extensive consultations with the Disability Advisory Council of Australia, national peak disability organisations and Commonwealth departments and other agencies. The

second stage will involve consultations with state and territory governments.

Other disability services matters which were discussed included a supported wages system and workers with a disability, funding of national peak disability organisations, services for people with acquired brain damage, Jobnet program,

13. Hansard, 28 February 1994, pp.100-102.

14. ibidi pp.123-138.

15. Estimates Committee C, Report, October 1993, p.6.

76

attendant care program, and the Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service and employment projects.16 1 7

Program 6 — Housing and Urban Development

Subiaco Oval — development

Questions were raised relating to a proposed $8m project to upgrade Subiaco Oval in Perth. This money was originally allocated in the context of the One Nation Statement The department's involvement with this project commenced at the time of the 1992-93 budget when the $8m was transferred to

it to administer. Concern was expressed that after the department had assumed responsibility for the $8m line item, there has been no acknowledgment or justification for the item in the 1992-93 or 1993-94 Program Performance Statements. The department advised that it expects that $1.5m of the amount will

be expended in 1993-94, with almost all of the remainder spent next financial year.1*

Industry Commission Report on Public Housing

The timing of the response to the Industry Commission report on public housing was considered. The Committee discussed the degree and level of consultations which have been undertaken in preparing the response. It was noted that the Council of Australian Governments has directed that State and Commonwealth

Housing Ministers are to provide a report to COAG in August 1994. This is likely to delay the usual six-month timetable to respond to Industry Commission reports.

Questions were asked relating to the decision not to accept specific recommendations in the report relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander housing. This decision was in accord with ATSIC's favoured position and reflected a 1993 decision of Housing Ministers that it was desirable for Aboriginal groups

to be involved in a decision-making way in the allocation of Aboriginal housing resources.18

16. Hansard, 1 March 1994, pp.177-85.

17. ibid., pp.163-70.

18. ibid., pp. 172-4.

77

Other matters

The Committee also considered matters relating to the recommendations from the review of the Indicative Planning Council, Commonwealth-State consultations regarding uniform consumer credit laws and the proposed national review of boarding houses involving the mentally ill.19

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

19. Hansard., 1 March 1994, pp. 174-6.

78

ADDENDUM TO THE REPORT

S e n a to r N oel C ric h to n -B ro w n e

A U S T R A L I A N S E N A T E

3EPUTY PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

PARLIAMENT HOUSE CANBERRA. A.C.T. 2600 TEL. (06) 277 3840 FAX (06) 277 3504

Mr Elton Humphery Secretary Estimates C Parliament House CANBERRA ACT 2600

3 March 1994

\4X

ADDENDUM TO ESTIMATES C REPORT

Program 4 - Sport and Recreation

The Department, and Mr Hamilton in particular, was particularly evasive and most unhelpful when questioned about the funding for the Sports Program. The Minister's justification for the disproportionate granting of funds to marginal Labor seats on the basis that they represent lower socio-economic groups, is not substantiated by

the facts.

NOEL CRICHTON-BROWNE LAN MACDONALD

80

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

(includes Minutes Nos. 9 and 10 relating to supplementary hearings held on 25 October 1993 and 15 November 1993 not previously tabled)

81

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 9 of 37th Parliament Monday, 25 October 1993

Public Hearing

1. The Committee met in public session at 4.06 pm in Committee Room 2S3, Parliament House for a supplementary hearing to examine matters relating to proposed expenditure for 1993-94 within the Health, Housing, Local Government and Community Services Portfolio.

2. Senator the Hon R. Crowley, Minister for Family Services and Minister assisting the Prime Minister for the Status of Women, attended, accompanied by the following officers who also responded to questions from the Committee:

Mr Tony Cole, Secretary Ms Mary Murnane, Deputy Secretary Disability Programs Division Ms Julia Burns, A/g Assistant Secretary, Disability Workforce

Participation Ms Joan Lipscombe, Assistant Secretary, Workforce Policy Branch Mr Brian MacDonald, Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation Services Ms Janet Murphy, Disability Planning and Quality Assurance

Ms J Anderson, A/g Assistant Secretary, Office of Disability Housing and Urban Development Division Mr Chris Foster, Assistant Secretary, Strategies and Research Mr Lloyd Scholes, A/g Assistant Secretary

Mr Nick Bogiatzis, Director, Urban Exports Policy

3. Matters for which Senators had given notice within the following programs were called on for consideration:

• Program 5 - Disability Programs; and • Program 6 - Housing and Urban Development

Tabled Documents

4. The following documents were tabled by the Department of Health, Housing, Local Government and Community Services: •

• the "Tender Brief' for JOBNET - Pilot Services for Young People with a Disability; and • a letter dated 21 October 1993 from the Senator the Hon. R. Crowley to Senator the Hon. M. Reynolds regarding contacts with the Housing

Industry Association..

82

Adjournment

5. The Committee adjourned at 5.30 pm.

Attendance

6. Senators Reynolds, Denman, Newman and Tambling.

Confirmed

Senator the Hon M. Reynolds (Chair)

83

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 10 of 37th Parliament Monday, 15 November 1993

Public Hearing

1. The Committee met in public session at 2.34 pm in Committee Room 2S1, Parliament House for a supplementary hearing to examine matters for which Senators had given notice relating to proposed expenditure for 1993-94.

2. The Committee commenced by examining matters relating to the Social Security Portfolio. Senator the Hon R. Crowley, Minister for Family Services and Minister assisting the Prime Minister for the Status of Women, attended accompanied by the following officers who also responded to questions from the Committee:

Mr A. Blunn, Secretary Mr J. Bowdler, Deputy Secretary, Programs Mr B. Godfrey, Deputy Secretary, Corporate Mr I. Camell, First Assistant Secretary, Security Fraud and Control Division Mr D. Tune, Assistant Secretary, Retirement Program Branch Mr T. Schell, Assistant Secretary, Disability Program Branch Mr H. Jongen, Assistant Secretary, Information and Public Relations Branch Ms K. Barfoot, Assistant Secretary, Budget Coordination and Corporate

Planning Branch

3. At 5.00 pm the examination of the Social Security Portfolio was suspended, and the Committee continued (from October 25) its examination of matters relating to the Health, Housing, Local Government and Community Services Portfolio. The following officers responded to questions from the Committee:

Mr A. Cole, Secretary Ms M. Murnane, Deputy Secretary Mr R. Calvert, Assistant Secretary, Office of Local Government, Local Government and Urban Development

4. At 6.08 pm the examination of the Health, Housing, Local Government and Community Services Portfolio was suspended, and examination of the Social Security Portfolio resumed. The following officers responded to questions from the Committee:

Mr A. Blunn, Secretary Mr B. Godfrey, Deputy Secretary, Corporate Mr C. Stewart, Assistant Secretary, International Branch

84

5. At 6.14 pm the examination of the Social Security Portfolio concluded. The Committee adjourned.

6. At 7.52 pm the Committee resumed its examination of the Health, Housing, Local Government and Community Services Portfolio. The following officers responded to questions from the Committee:

Mr A. Cole, Secretary Mr A. Bansemer, Deputy Secretary Ms M. Mumane, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Loy, First Assistant Secretary, Health Advancement

Mr I. McNeil, First Assistant Secretary, Health Care Access Mr W. Talbot, Acting Assistant Secretary, Casemix, Health Care Access Dr V. McLoughlin, Assistant Secretary, General Practice, Health Care Access Mr R. Griew, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Aged Care

Dr J. Harmer, First Assistant Secretary, Policy Development Division Ms J. Lipscombe, Assistant Secretary, Workforce Policy, Policy Development Division Mr Roger Barson, Director, Outcome Standards, Aged Care

7. The Committee adjourned at 10.13 pm.

Attendance

8. Senators Reynolds, Denman, Patterson and Zakharov.

Confirmed

85

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 11 of 37th Parliament Thursday, 10 February 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session outside the Senate Chamber at 7.35 pm.

2. ORDER OF HEARING DEPARTMENTS: The Committee considered a request by the Department of Human Services and Health to be heard after the Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories on 22 February 1994, owing to a long-standing interstate commitment of the senior executive earlier that day.

Resolved, on the motion of Senator West, that the Department of Human Services and Health appear after the Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories on 22 February 1994.

3. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of meetings Nos 9 (25 October 1993) and 10 (15 November 1993) were approved on the motion of Senator Macdonald.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 7.43 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds, Denman, Macdonald and West.

CONFIRMED:

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

86

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 12 of 37th Parliament Tuesday, 22 February 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 4.36 pm in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. BROADCASTING OF PROCEEDINGS: On the motion of Senator Reynolds it was resolved that - The order of 5 May 1993 relating to the broadcasting of estimates committee proceedings be extended to permit access by other photographers.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES:

In attendance — Senator Graham Richardson, Minister for Health, and Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by Mr Stuart Hamilton, Secretary, and other officers of the Department.

The Chairperson called on variations not allocated to programs and the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for these programs is contained in the particulars of proposed additional expenditure documents.

Program 1 — Environment Program 3 - Meteorology Program 4 — Sport and Recreation Program 5 - Territories

The Committee received the following documents:

• Grants to Voluntary Conservation Organisations — Guidelines — General Purpose Grants 1993-94.

• Greenhouse research grants

• Two-year CEP A program costs.

The sitting of the Committee was suspended from 6.29 pm to 8.10 pm.

87

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.07 am (23.2.1994).

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Baume, Crichton-Browne, Denman, Ian Macdonald, Tambling and West. Senators Calvert, Chamarette and Hill also attended.

C O N E T R M F n· /)

(Chair)

88

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 13 of 37th Parliament Monday, 28 February 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 9.14 am in the Main Committee Room. In the temporary absence of Senator Reynolds, Senator West took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

In attendance — Senator Graham Richardson, Minister for Health, and Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by officers of the Department.

The Chairperson called the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for these programs is contained in the particulars of proposed additional expenditure documents.

Program 3 — Family and Children's Services Program 1 — Health Advancement Program 2 — Health Care Access

The Committee suspended its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Human Services and Health Portfolio.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.20 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Denman, Newman, Tambling and West. Senator Boswell also attended.

CONFB

Senator G ,

(Chair)

89

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 14 of 37th Parliament Tuesday, 1 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.10 pm in Senate Committee Room 2S3. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-94 - HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

The Committee resumed its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Human Services and Health Portfolio.

In attendance — Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, accompanied by officers of the Department.

The Chairperson called the following programs of proposed expenditure for consideration by the Committee. The expenditure proposed for these programs is contained in the particulars of proposed additional expenditure documents.

Program 2 - Health Care Access Program 9 — Corporate Direction and Support Program 6 - Housing and Urban Development Program 5 — Disability Programs

Programs 4 and 7 were also called but there were no questions.

The Committee received the following documents:

• Comparison between AMA and HSH costings; and

• Road Funding - Answer to question on notice by the Treasurer, Mr Dawkins, dated 26 October 1993.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Human Services and Health, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.30 pm.

90

ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Denman, Newman, Tambling and West.

Senator Lees also attended.

CONFIRMED:

/ - j :

I f

Senator the Hem Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

91

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 15 of 37th Parliament Thursday, 3 March 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met in private session outside the Senate Chamber at 9.15 am. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of meetings held on 10, 22 and 28 February and 1 March 1994 (Nos 11 to 14) were confirmed.

3. ADOPTION OF REPORT: The Committee resolved, on the motion of Senator West, that the Chair's draft report be adopted as the report of the Committee, subject to the inclusion of amendments agreed to by the Committee.

4. SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING: The Committee agreed to the following timetable subject to confirmation by other members of the Committee.

• 8 March 1994 - provision of written answers by departments

• 15 March 1994 - notification by Senators of matters to be

raised at supplementary hearing

18 March 1994 supplementary hearing.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.30 am.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds, Denman, Newman and West.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

(Chair)

92

APPENDIX 1

Table of Contents of Hansard transcripts of evidence

Tuesday, 22 February 1994

Environment, Sport and Territories Portfolio

Monday, 28 February 1994 Tuesday, 1 March 1994

Human Services and Health Portfolio

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

TABLE OF CONTENTS TO H A N SA R D

Subject Page

Tuesday, 22 February 1994

ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO

Section 1 — Portfolio Overview and Explanation of Variations not allocated to programs Portfolio savings............................................................................................. C18-24

Program 1 — Environment Sub-program 1.4 — Australian Nature Conservation Agency...................... CIO-13 Program 2 — A ntarctic........................................................................................ C2-5

Program 6 — Corporate Services, Coordination and Public Affairs (including administration of various grants' programs and projects).........C5-10, 13-18, 29-56

Program 1 — Environment Sub-program 1.1 — Environmental Strategies.............................................. C56-68

Sub-program 1.3 — Australian Heritage Commission................................. C68-70

Sub-program 1.4 — Australian Nature Conservation Agency...................... C70-81 Sub-program 1.5 — Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority ............... C77-81

Program 5 — Territories Sub-program 5.2 — Christmas Islan d ........................................................... C81-83

94

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

TABLE OF CONTENTS TO H A N SA R D

Subject Page

Monday, 28 February 1994

Tuesday, 1 March 1994

HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO

Program 1 — Health Advancement.......................................................................... C l02

Sub-program 1.3 - Health promotion and disease prevention ...................... Cl 07

Program 2 — Health Care Access Sub-program 2.1 - Medicare benefits............................................ 0 2 1 , 043-54

Sub-program 2.3 — Hospital, insurance and other health services............. 054-6

Program 3 — Family and Children's Services......................................................... 0 2 3

Sub-program 3.1 - Children's services .............................................................. C86

Program 5 — Disability Program s.................................................................... 077-85

Program 6 — Housing and Urban Developm ent............................................ 063-71

Sub-program 6.2 - Housing access and affordability ................................. 072-7

Program 9 — Corporate Direction and Support.............................................. 056-63

95

APPENDIX 2

Questions taken on notice before and during the public hearings

96

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C - ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES HEARINGS FEBRUARY 1994

DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES

Questions taken on notice prior to/during hearings

D a te reply received D a te provided

to S e n a to r

A dditional Info rm atio n (Vol/page)

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

02.03.94

D ate reply received D ate provided

to S e n a to r

A dditional In fo rm atio n (VoVpage)

01.03.94 01.03.94

22.02.94 22.02.94

25.02.94 - for referral to AG's Dept.

S e n a to r T am bling advised 25.02.94

Μ

4^

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meetings

No. 16 of 15 March 1994

and

No. 17 of 17 March 1994

105

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 16 of 37th Parliament Tuesday, 15 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.36 am in Committee Room 2S1 for a supplementary hearing to examine matters of which Senators had given notice relating to the proposed additional expenditure 1993-94 for the Environment, Sport and Territories and Human Services and Health

Portfolios. Senator Reynolds took the Chair.

2. ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES PORTFOLIO: Senator Graham Richardson, Minister for Health, Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services and officers from the portfolio responded to questions relating to matters of which notice had been given (copy attached).

The Committee concluded its consideration of matters relating to the portfolio, subject to undertakings to provide additional information to the Committee.

3. HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO: Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services and officers from the portfolio responded to questions relating to matters of which notice had been given.

The Committee suspended its consideration of matters relating to the portfolio.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.57 pm.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Baume, Denman, Ian Macdonald, Newman, Patterson, Tambling and West. Senators Boswell, Herron, Hill and Kemp also attended.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

106

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING, TUESDAY, 15 MARCH 1994, 2S1, 8.30am

Senator Matters to be raised

DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, SPORT AND TERRITORIES

Crichton-Browne/ Ian Macdonald Program 1 - Environment

Tambling Sub-program 1.4 - Australian Nature Conservation Agency • NT National Parks

Crichton-Browne Program 4 - Sports and Recreation

Tambling • sports funding

Macdonald Sub-program 4.1

Crichton-Browne Program 5 - Territories

Tambling Sub-program 5.2

• Christmas Island

107

DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH

Newman Any questions taken on notice which had not been responded by COB 10 March

General - private health insurance reforms

Tambling Program 1

Sub-program 1.3 - Health Promotion & Disease Prevention

• Mental Health • NH&MRC report on Conductive Education and applicability in Australia

Newman Program 3

Sub-program 3.1

• child care fee relief and government sponsored services

Boswell • child care accreditation

Patterson Program 4 - Aged Care

• reported financial problems of Delcare Nursing Home

Tambling Program 5 - Disability Programs

• Conductive Education • JobNet program

Newman Sub-program 5.5

• health issues relating to applications for permanent residency

Tambling Program 6.1 - Urban Development

• Subiaco Oval development • Building Better Cities

Tambling Program 6.2 - Housing Access and Affordability

• Industry Commission recommendations on Aboriginal housing • Consumer credit laws

108

ESTIMATES CO M M ITTEE C

Minutes of Meeting No. 17 of 37th Parliament Thursday, 17 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.04 pm in Committee Room 2S1 for a further supplementary hearing to examine matters of which Senators had given notice relating to the proposed additional expenditure 1993-94 for the Human Services and Health Portfolio. Senator Reynolds took the

Chair.

2. HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH PORTFOLIO: Senator Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services and officers from the portfolio responded to questions relating to outstanding matters of which notice had been given (copy attached).

The Committee concluded its consideration of matters relating to the portfolio, subject to the provision of additional information on Program 6.1 - Urban Development relating to the Subiaco Oval development and consequent determination by the Committee as to the necessity of a further supplementary

hearing on this matter.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.14 pm.

4. ATTENDANCE: Senators Reynolds (Chair), Denman, Patterson, Tumbling and West.

Senator the Hon Margaret Reynolds (Chair)

109

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

SUPPLEMENTARY HEARING, THURSDAY, 17 MARCH 1994, 2S1, 8.00 pm

DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND HEALTH

Senator Matters to be raised

Patterson Program 4 - Aged Care

• reported financial problems of Delcare Nursing Home

Reynolds · Resident Classification Index

Tumbling Program 5 - Disability Programs

• JobNet program

Sub-program 5.5

Reynolds · processing of immigration visas

Tambling Program 6.1 - Urban Development

• Subiaco Oval development

110

Estimates Committee D

Report to the Senate

March 1994

111

MEMBERS O F T H E COM M ITTEE

Chair:

Members:

Secretary:

Research:

Senator John Coates (Tasmania)

Senator Eric Abetz (Tasmania) Senator Brian Gibson (Tasmania)* Senator Stephen Loosley (New South Wales)*" Senator Shayne Murphy (Tasmania) Senator Warwick Parer (Queensland)

Senator Abetz was appointed to the Committee on 28 February 1994 as a replacement for Senator Bronwyn Bishop.

Senator Alan Ferguson (South Australia) replaced Senator Gibson for the consideration of the additional estimates of the Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio.

Senator Jim McKiernan (Western Australia) replaced Senator Loosley for 24 February 1994 only.

Senator Grant Chapman (South Australia) replaced Senator Parer for the consideration of the additional estimates of the Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio.

Peter Keele

Barbara Allan Liz Carter

112

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Introduction

On 9 February 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee, for examination and report, the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1994 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1994 in respect of the following portfolios:

. Industry, Technology and Regional Development . Treasury

. Finance.

The Committee has considered these additional estimates, together with the Program Performance Statements, and has received evidence from the Minister for the Industry, Technology and Regional Development, Senator Cook, the Minister for Science and Small Business, Senator Schacht, and officers of the departments and authorities

concerned. Copies of the minutes of proceedings are appended to this report and the Hansard transcript of the evidence taken by the Committee is tabled for the information of the Senate. Further written explanations furnished by departments will be tabled when received, in volumes entitled Additional Information.

The following matters were amongst those which arose during the consideration of the additional estimates.

Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio

The Committee examined proposed additional expenditure of $6 914 000 in Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1993-94 and $29 800 000 in Appropriation Bill (No.4) 1993-94.

The appointment o f Mr Frank Kelly

The appointment of Mr Frank Kelly, formerly Comptroller-General of Customs, to a newly-created position in the Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development was examined by the Committee. In particular, the salary and other benefits to be paid to Mr Kelly and the nature of his duties were subjected to close

scrutiny.

The Australian Customs Service

The state of the Australian Customs Service, following the Midford-Paramount case and the tabling of the Conroy report, was discussed. Senator Schacht, the Minister for Science and Small Business, assured the Committee that the guidelines laid down by the Public Service Commissioner relating to the acceptance by public servants of gratuities and gifts

113

were the responsibility of heads of departments to enforce. In the case of Customs, the Acting Comptroller-General assured the Committee that an internal audit was underway within the organisation to ensure that any gratuities received by Customs officers complied with the guidelines. In addition, internal guidelines on ethics and conduct were being developed.

Treasurer's portfolio

Proposed additional expenditure of $14 678 000 in Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1993-94 and $4 337 000 in Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1993-94 was examined by the Committee.

Information concerning debt management

During the examination of sub-program 1.3 of the Treasurer's portfolio, concern was expressed that the Program Performance Statements explained that two existing foreign loans had been refinanced to take account of lower interest rates, but that insufficient information was provided to inform the Committee as to whether debts were being managed and retired as efficiently as possible. The Minister undertook to examine the matter.

Household expenditure survey

The powers of the Australian Bureau of Statistics to compel households to co-operate in its surveys, and the penalties for non-compliance, were examined by the Committee.

Interception o f tax refunds by the Child Support Agency

The Committee examined the increase in compensation payments to custodial parents in cases where the agency had failed to intercept taxation refund cheques. The extent of the problem and the reasons for it were considered.

Finance portfolio

The Committee examined proposed additional expenditure amounting to $8 265 000 in Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1993-94 and $236 000 in AppropriationBill (No. 4) in relation to the Finance portfolio.

Administration o f the community cultural recreation and sporting facilities program

The ANAO's performance audit of the community cultural recreation and sporting facilities program was examined by the Committee. The nature of the disagreement between the Department of Finance and the administering department over the

evaluation of the program was explored, as were other dealings the department had with the program.

114

General

The Committee acknowledges that the new budgetary timetable and the proposed changes to budgetary and annual report documentation will have implications for the manner in which matters are dealt with by estimates committees.

Questions on notice and supplementary hearing

The Committee has agreed to the following dates for the receipt of responses to questions on notice and for a supplementary hearing, if required:

. Wednesday 9 March 1994 - responses to questions on notice to be

received

. Wednesday 16 March 1994 - senators to advise the Secretariat of matters they wish to raise at a supplementary hearing

. Wednesday 23 March 1994 or

Thursday 24 March - supplementary hearing, if required.

John Coates Chair

115

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D - ADDI TIONAL ESTIMATES 1993-94

Questions taken on notice by the Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio

Q. number (parts)

1

2

Senator

Ferguson

Ferguson

3(4)

4

_5___

_6___

_ 7___

_8___

_9____

10( 11)

11(15)

12( 2)

13( 9)

14(3)

Bishop

Chapman

Chapman

Chapman

Bishop

Bishop

Ferguson

Ferguson

Ferguson

Ferguson

Bishop

Baume

Subject

Public Service number of Mr Kelly's APEC position

Public Service Commissioner's determination regarding Mr Kelly's salary

Commissioning of the McKinsey report____________________

Organisations invited to provide input into industry statement

Organisations which made submissions re industry statement

Expenses of Mr Brian Courtice paid by department

Matters on which $400 000 legal fees spent

An example of a brief for counsel on a legal matter

Public Service guidelines on the acceptance of gifts

Office of Regional Development program details, assistance provided, audit

Regional Employment and Economic Development Program - Australian National Rail component - responsibilities, funding

Office of Regional Development input into industry statement

Regional Development Study - request for tenders process

Expenditure for minister to allocate at his/her discretion

Program number

1.1

1.1

1.1

1.1

1.1

1.1

9.8

9.8

nps

1.1

1.1

1.1

1.1

1.1

Date received Date reply or Hansard received page/column

D7 r___________________

D14 1

D17 r

D18 r

D18 r

D20 1

D22 r

D23 1

D39 1

D81-2

D82 l,r

D82 r

25.02.94

10.02.94

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D - ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES 1993-94

Questions taken on notice by the Treasurer's portfolio

Q. number (parts)

_1____

_2____

3

4

Senator

Parer

Parer

Parer

Parer

5

6

7

8

9

10

Gibson

Kemp

Parer

Kemp

Bishop

Parer

n__

12__

13 ___

14 (3)

_15___

16

O'Chee

O'Chee

Boswell

Parer

Parer

Parer

Subject Program

number

Ratio of corporate services to running costs

Reason for decrease in staff yet increase in running costs

Changes to numbers of staff at each classification level

Proportion of the increase in running costs attributable to decrease in numbers of junior staff

When the 2% APS-wide salary increase took effect

Guidelines for public servants re examining opposition policies

Cost of review of section 21 declarations

Current overall level of Commonwealth debt

Relationship between FIRB and ABS statistics

Apparent inconsistency in treatment of local councillor payments for superannuation and fringe benefit purposes

Total cost of legal action

Selection criteria for filtering complaints

Reasons for rejection of Mackay CSR/Mann and Co. merger

Length of taxation legislation, 1983, 1994

ATO staff, 1983, 1994____________________________________

ATO offices 1983, 1994

nps

4.2

4.2

4.2

4.2

4.2

1.2

1.3

5.1

6.1

8.4

8.2

8.2

6.3

6.3

6.3

Date received Date reply or Hansard received

page/column

D41 1___________________

D41 r___________________

D42 1___________________

D42 1

D45 1

D48 1

D49 1

D51 1

D59 1

D64 1

D66 1

D66 r

D69 r

D82 r

D82 r

D82 r

17 (2) Parer ATO running costs 1983, 1994; real rise 6.3

18 (3) Baume Expenditure which minister can allocate at his/her discretion 4.2

19 (8) Tambling Application from Head Injury Council of Australia re public 6 benevolent institution status

D82 r

10.02.94

23.02.94

Μ oo

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 16

Thursday, 24 February 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 1.33pm in the Main Committee Room. Senator Coates took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the proposed additional expenditure of the Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio. In attendance were, in turn, Senator Cook, Minister for Industry, Technology and Regional

Development, and Senator Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development—

Mr Sandy Hollway, Secretary Dr Rod Badger, Acting Deputy Secretary, Industry Liaison and Enterprise Development Ms Sandra Eccles, First Assistant Secretary, Ministerial and Portfolio Coordination

Division

Mr Ivan Donaldson, Assistant Secretary, Ministerial and Coordination Branch Mr John Ryan, First Assistant Secretary, Industry Statement Group Dr Ralph Jensen, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Science and Industry Policy Division

Mr John Grant, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Information, Technology Communications and Environment Industries Division Mr Rob Palfreyman, First Assistant Secretary, Enterprise Development Division Mr Alan Evans, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Regional Development

Dr Bob Hawkins, Director, Bureau of Industry Economics Mr Bob Samarcq, First Assistant Secretary, Engineering, Construction and Resource Processing Industries Division Mr Ken Pettifer, Assistant Secretary, Agri-Food Industries Branch Mr Neville Hurst, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Dr Joe Hlubucek, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Communications and

Information Branch Mr Frank Kovachevich, Assistant Secretary, Financial Management and Personnel Branch Mr Chris Dainer, Director, Resource Management and Property Section Mr Malcolm Farrow, Executive Director, Australian Space Office Dr John Boyd, Deputy Executive Director, Remote Sensing and Operations

Branch

Mr John Beever, Assistant Secretary, Multi Function Polis Projects Mr Phillip Constable, Assistant Secretary, Customs Review Taskforce Mr John Robertson, Director, Customs Review Taskforce Ms Ditta Zizi, Assistant Director, Portfolio Coordination Section Mr Peter McGuinness, Assistant Director, Portfolio Coordination Section

120

Australian Manufacturing Council Secretariat:

Mr Steven Prytz, Assistant Director

Textiles, Clothing and Footwear Development Authority:

Mr Adrian Caddy, Chief Executive Ms Jayne Facey, Manager, Administration

Automotive Industry Authority:

Mr Michael Wynne-Hughes, Chief Executive

Anti-Dumping Authority:

Mr Don Fraser, Member

National Standards Commission:

Mr John Birch, Executive Director

Nuclear Safety Bureau:

Mr Mike Allen, Acting Director

Australian Customs Service:

Mr Chris Doogan, Acting Comptroller-General Mr Les Jones, Acting Deputy Comptroller, Operations Mr John Drury, Deputy Comptroller, Services Mr Greg O'Connor, National Manager, Corporate Services

Ms Jenny Peachey, Manager, Resource Management Ms Trish Bridge, Director, Budget and Accounts Mr John Jeffery, Manager, Executive Support Mr Richard Miller, Manager, Legal Services

Mr Kevin Gascoine, Acting Manager, Audit and Evaluation Mr Tom Fahy, Acting National Manager, Imports/Exports Mr Julian Mallett, Acting National Manager, Passenger Processing Mr John Hawksworth, National Manager, Investigations

Mr Peter Watson, National Manager,_ Barrier Control Mr Phil Bums, National Manager, Coastwatch Ms Virginia Stretton, National Manager, Inland Revenue Mr Peter English, Assistant National Manager, Inland Revenue

Mr Rod Nelson, National Manager, Industry Assistance Mr Graham Bannister, National Manager

Department of Finance:

Mr Hian Yap, Senior Finance Officer, Industry and General Branch

The Chair called on the following programs and sub-programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

121

Sub-program 1.1: Policy and Co-ordination Sub-program 1.2: Industry Liaison Sub-program 1.3: Enterprise Development Program 5: Textiles, Clothing and Footwear Program 4: National Standards Sub-program 10.2: Nuclear Safety Bureau Program 9: Customs

The Committee ordered the incorporation in the Hansard transcript of evidence questions on notice from Senators Ferguson and Bishop.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: TREASURER’S PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the proposed additional expenditure of the Treasurer's portfolio. In attendance was Senator Cook, Minister for Industry, Technology and

Regional Development, representing the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Treasury—

Dr Alan Preston, Deputy Secretary, Fiscal Mr Gary Potts, Deputy Secretary, Economic Mr Ken Henry, First Assistant Secretary, Taxation Policy Division Mr Mike Callaghan, First Assistant Secretary, Economic Division

Mr Greg Smith, First Assistant Secretary, Financial Institutions Division Mr Terry O'Brien, Assistant Secretary, Indirect Taxation & Quantitative Analysis Branch Mr Peter Boxall, Assistant Secretary, State & Local Government Finances Branch Mr Martin Parkinson, Assistant Secretary, Economic Conditions Branch Mr Ian Robinson, Assistant Secretary, Banking & Finance Branch Mr Brendan Cox, Executive Director, Development Allowance Authority Mr Dan Buchler, Executive Officer, Darwin Committee Secretariat Mr Garry Bowditch, Director, State Finances Section Mr Phil Garton, Director, Budget Review Section Ms Jenny Aked, Director, Accounting & Finance Directorate Ms Robyn Bindley, Director, Human Resource Development Directorate Ms Francesca Kibria, Assistant Director, Indirect Tax Section Mr John Brown, Assistant Director, State Finances Section Ms Dianne Carlos, Assistant Director, Accounting & Finance Mr Andrew Alexander, Assistant Director, Human Resource Development

Directorate

Australian Bureau of Statistics:

Dr Richard Madden, Deputy Australian Statistician Mr Fred von Reibnitz, First Assistant Statistician, Coordination and Management Division Mr Tim Skinner, First Assistant Statistician, Social and Labour Division Mr Ivan King, Assistant Statistician, Resource and Management Branch Mr Henri Kriegel, Assistant Statistician, Information Services Branch Mr Paul McCarthy, Assistant Statistician, National Accounts and Prices Branch

Ms Barbara Dunlop, Assistant Statistician, International Accounts and Trade Branch Mr John Dent, Assistant Statistician, Personnel Management Branch

122

Prices Surveillance Authority:

Mr Trevor Lee, Director, Surveillance Mr John Corin, Corporate Services Manager

Trade Practices Commission:

Mr Hank Spier, General Manager Ms Glen Barnwell, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Planning & Resources Mr Roger Leggott, Director, Management Services

Royal Australian Mint:

Mr Ian Hamilton, Director, Finance & Supply

Australian Taxation Office:

Mr Richard Highfield, Second Commissioner Ms Moira Scollay, First Assistant Commissioner (Child Support Agency) Mr John Landau, First Assistant Commissioner (Business Taxes) Mr Geoff Seymour, First Assistant Commissioner (Information Technology)

Mr Robert Tomkins, First Assistant Commissioner (Advisings, Appeals and Review) Mr Chris Mobbs, Acting First Assistant Commissioner (Corporate Services) Mr Ed Killesteyn, Acting Chief Financial Controller

Mr Ross O'Connell, Assistant Commissioner (Decentralisation and Accommodation) Mr John Growder, Assistant Commissioner (Information Technology) Mr Ray McNicol, Assistant Commissioner (Business Tax Branch)

Mr Rick Matthews, Assistant Commissioner (Revenue Analysis) Mr Michael Monaghan, Assistant Commissioner (Superannuation Guarantee Team) Mr Kevin Patchell, Assistant Commissioner (Taxpayer Audit)

Mr Stuart Allan, Assistant Commissioner (Complex and International) Mr David Butler, Assistant Commissioner (Child Support Agency) Mr Colin Walker, Manager (Business Tax Legislative Services) Mr Richard Johnston, Director (Child Support Systems)

Ms Gaida Blenkinsop, Director (Parliamentary Business Unit) Mr Timothy Pilgrim, Corporate Services Mr David Sheen, Manager (Superannuation Guarantee Levy Project) Mr Neil Mann, Director (Public Affairs Unit)

Mr Brian Patrick, Director (Child Support Resources) Mr Peter McCann, Principle Review Officer (Child Support)

Department of Finance:

Mr Wayne Turner, Assistant Director, Financial Management Division Ms Libby Kalis, Senior Research Officer, Financial Management Division

123

Sub-program 1.2(a): Structural Sub-program 1.2(b): Prices Surveillance Authority Sub-program 1.3: Debt Management Program 3: Payments to or for Other Levels of Government

Program 5: Australian Bureau of Statistics Sub-program 6.1: Income Tax Sub-program 6.2: Sales Tax Sub-program 6.3: Corporate Support

Sub-program 6.4: Child Support Program 8: Trade Practices Commission

The Committee ordered the incorporation in the Hansard transcript of evidence questions on notice from Senator Parer.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: FINANCE PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the proposed additional expenditure of the Finance portfolio. In attendance was Senator Cook, Minister for Industry, Technology and Regional Development, representing the Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Finance-Mr Eric Thorn, Deputy Secretary Mr Ian McPhee, First Assistant Secretary, Financial Management Division Mr Oliver Winder, First Assistant Secretary, Defence and Industry Division

Mr John Galloway, Assistant Secretary, Resource Policies and Management Branch Mr Maurie Kennedy, Assistant Secretary, Financial Administration Advisory Branch Mr Bob Peglar, Assistant Secretary, Primary Industries and Resources Branch

Mr Keith Mackay, Assistant Secretary, Evaluation and Statistical Services Branch Mr Eddie Wojcik, Acting Assistant Secretary, Public Administration and Accounting Development Branch Ms Robyn Bradley, Director, Social Welfare Branch

Ms Cathie McKay, Director, Industry and General Branch

Retirement Benefits Office:

Mr John McCullagh, Assistant Commissioner, Business Management Branch Mr Ron Jackson, Director, Finance and Accounts

Australian National Audit Office:

Mr Warren Cochrane, Acting National Business Director, Performance Audit Ms Lucy Bitmead, Acting Executive Director, Executive Support Branch Mr Peter Johnson, Acting Senior Director, Finance Property and Services Mr John Meert, Acting Group Director, Performance Audit Mr Peter White, Acting Group Director, Performance Audit

Mr Russell Coleman, Executive Director, Policy and Evaluation Branch Mr Michael Lewis, Executive Director, Performance Audit

The Chair called on the following programs and sub-programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

124

Sub-program 3.1: Central Accounting Systems Sub-program 4.1: Retirement Benefits Office Sub-program 5.2: Other Payments Schemes Program 8: Australian National Audit Office

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.55pm.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Coates, Bishop, Chapman, Ferguson, Gibson, McKieman, Murphy and Parer. Senators Boswell, Kemp, O'Chee and Tambling also attended.

CONFIRMED:

The Chair called on the following programs and sub-programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

John Coates Chair

125

THE SENATE

Wednesday, 2 March 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 7.23pm in the Government Advisors' Lobby. Senator Coates took the Chair.

2. MINUTES: The Committee confirmed the minutes of meeting no. 16, held on 24 February 1994.

3. PROPOSED COMMITTEE SCHEDULE: The Committee adopted the following schedule:

. Wednesday 9 March 1994 - responses to questions on notice to be received

. Wednesday 16 March 1994 - senators to advise the Secretariat of matters they wish to raise at a supplementary hearing

. Wednesday 23 March 1994 or Thursday 24 March - supplementary hearing, if required.

4. REPORT: The Chair's draft report, as previously circulated, was adopted with the addition of one sentence.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 7.27pm.

6. ATT ENDANCE: Senators Coates, Abetz, Ferguson, Gibson, Loosley and Murphy. Apologies were received from Senator Chapman.

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 17

CERT IFIED CORRECT:

Chair

126

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D HANSARD INDEX

Thursday, 24 February 1994

Industry, Technology and Regional Development Portfolio

General Page

Attenders D1

Chair's opening statement D2

Program 1 - Industry, Technology and Regional Development

Sub-program 1.1 - Policy and Coordination

Appointment of Mr Frank Kelly D3

Funding of McKinsey report D16

Minister's role in allocating grants D17

Consultancy of Mr Brian Courtice D18, D20

Sub-program 1.3 - Enterprise Development

Industrial supply officers D20

Technology in government committee D21

Program 5 - Textiles, Clothing and Footwear

Input to the industry statement D18

Program 10 - Nuclear Science and Technology

Sub-program 10.2 - Nuclear Safety Bureau

ANSTO and CSIRO funding D22

Program 9 - Customs

Sub-program 9.8 - Executive Services

Compensation and legal expenses D22

Conroy review recommendations D23

Midford Paramount compensation payment D28

Mr Frank Kelly's resignation D30

Conroy review D36

Acceptance of gifts by staff of Customs D37

127

Treasury Portfolio

General Page

Attenders D39

Program 1 - Economic policy .

Sub-program 1.2 - Structural

Legal expenses D41

Staffing D42

Effects of the Superannuation Guarantee Charge D43

Fringe Benefits Tax simplification D43

Tax concessions for foreign investors D44

2% APS salary increase D45

The Darwin Committee D45

Code of conduct for public servants D48

Sub-program 1.2(b) - Structural (Prices Surveillance Authority)

Review of section 21 declarations D49

Hilmer report recommendations D49

Charging for film to independent theatre owners D53

Sub-program 1.3 - Debt Management

Refinancing of Commonwealth debt D50

Program 3 - Payments to or for Other Levels of Government

Sub-program 3.1 - Payments relating to General Purpose Revenue Assistance

Compensation payments to Martin Street, Armidale residents D51

Program 5 - Australian Bureau of Statistics

Household expenditure surveys D55

Collection of balance of payments figures D57

FIRB data D58

Adjustments to balance of payments figures D60

Program 6 - Australian Taxation Office

PAYE contributions of Mr Charles Wright D60

Quantification of tax forgone through non-compliance D63

Local government councillors and superannuation, FBT D64

Legal expenses for debt collection D64

128

Subprogram 6.4 - Child Support

Compensation payments D65

Program 8 - Trade Practices Commission

Compensations and legal expenses D65

Selection criteria for complaints D66

Proposed merger of Mackay CSR and ED & S Mann and Co. D67

Finance Portfolio

General Page

Attenders D69

Community Cultural , Recreational and Sporting Facilities Program? D71, D78 Government credit cards D81

SES conference, Bowral D81

Program 3 - Government Financial Administration and Services

Sub-program 3.1 - Central accounting systems

Redevelopment of PAYE system D73

Program 8 - Australian National Audit Office

Delays in restructuring D74

Inquiry into Centenary House D75

Audit of Community Cultural, Recreational and Sporting Facilities Program D75

Questions on notice

Senator Ferguson to the Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development D81

Senator Parer to the Australian Taxation Office D82

129

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

A D D IT IO N A L E ST IM A T E S 1 9 9 3 -9 4

M IN U T E S OF

SU P P L E M E N T A R Y H E A R IN G H E LD I N M ARCH 1 9 9 4

MAY 1994

130

T H E SENATE

Wednesday, 23 March 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 8.01pm in Senate Committee Room 2S3.

2. ELECTION OF CHAIR: The Committee Secretary called for nominations for the position of Committee Chair. Senator Evans nominated Senator Murphy, who was elected unopposed.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.03pm.

4. ATTENDANCE: Senators Abetz, Chapman, Evans, Ferguson, Gibson, Murphy and Parer.

ESTIMATES CO M M ITTEE D

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 18

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

' y / A - -

- / :'·

Shayne Murphy Chair

131

T H E SENATE

Wednesday, 23 March 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.04pm in Senate Committee Room 2S3. Senator Murphy took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: TREASURER'S PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the matters lodged with the Secretariat for consideration at the supplementary meeting to consider the additional estimates of the Treasurer's portfolio. In attendance was Senator

Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Treasury-Dr Alan Preston, Deputy Secretary, Fiscal Mr M. Kooymans, Director, Loan Council Section

The Chair called on the following matters, programs and sub-programs for consideration by the Committee:

Non-program specific: Staff numbers Sub-program 6.1: Income tax Program 3: Payments to or for other levels of government.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: FINANCE PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the matters lodged with the Secretariat for consideration at the supplementary meeting to consider the proposed additional expenditure of the Finance portfolio. In attendance was Senator Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Finance-Mr Eric Thorn, Deputy Secretary Mr Maurie Kennedy, Assistant Secretary, Financial Administration Advisory Branch Mr Ian McAuley, Director, Student Assistance and Resources Section, Employment, Education and Training Branch

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE D

Minutes of Proceedings

No. 19

132

Australian National Audit Office:

Mr Warren Cochrane, Acting National Business Director, Performance Audit Ms Lucy Bitmead, Acting Executive Director, Executive Support Branch Mr Peter White, Acting Group Director, Performance Audit Mr John Meert, Acting Group Director, Performance Audit

Mr Michael Lewis, Acting Executive Director, Performance Audit Mr L. Rowe, Acting Executive Director, Performance Audit Mr G. Hogan, Senior Director, Performance Audit

The Chair called on the following programs and sub-programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

Sub-program 1.1: Budget co-ordination Program 8: Australian National Audit Office

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993­ 94: INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO. The Committee considered the matters lodged with the Secretariat for consideration at the supplementary meeting to consider the proposed

additional expenditure of the Industry, Technology and Regional Development portfolio. In attendance was Senator Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Industry, Technology and Regional Development—

Mr Sandy Hollway, Secretary Mr N Edwards, First Assistant Secretary, Ministerial and Portfolio Coordination Division Mr David Hanna, Assistant Secretary, Ministerial and Coordination Branch

Dr Rod Badger, Acting Deputy Secretary, Industry Liaison and Enterprise Development Dr Ralph Jensen, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Science and Industry Policy Division Mr Rob Palfreyman, First Assistant Secretary, Enterprise Development Division Mr Alan Evans, First Assistant Secretary, Office of Regional Development Mr Bob Samarcq, First Assistant Secretary, Engineering, Construction and

Resource Processing Industries Division Mr Neville Hurst, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Mr Frank Kovachevich, Assistant Secretary, Financial Management and Personnel Branch

Mr Chris Dainer, Director, Resource Management and Property Section Mr Malcolm Farrow, Executive Director, Australian Space Office Mr John Beever, Assistant Secretary, Multi Function Polis Projects Ms Ditta Zizi, Assistant Director, Portfolio Coordination Section

Mr Peter McGuinness, Assistant Director, Portfolio Coordination Section

The Chair called on the following matters, programs and sub-programs of proposed additional expenditure for consideration by the Committee:

Non-program specific: Administration of grants; employment of Mr Courtice Sub-program 1.1: Policy and Co-ordination Program 9: Customs

133

The Committee ordered the incorporation in the Hansard transcript of evidence questions on notice from Senator Parer.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.06pm.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Murphy, Abetz, Chapman, Evans, Ferguson, Gibson and Parer.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

/- 4..

Shayne Murphy Chair

134

AUSTRALIAN SENATE

ESTIM A TES CO M M ITTEE E

R E P O R T TO T H E SE N A T E

O N A D D IT IO N A L ESTIM ATES

MARCH 1994

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Chairperson: Senator J Devereux (Tasmania)

Members:

Senator J Troeth Senator A Zakharov

Senator I Campbell Senator D Foreman Senator B Teague

(Western Australia) (South Australia) (South Australia) (Victoria) (Victoria)

Senators S Macdonald (New South Wales) and N Minchin (South Australia) replaced Senators Teague and Troeth for the consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Administrative Services.

Senators W Crane1 (Western Australia) and S Macdonald (New South Wales) replaced Senators Campbell and Teague for the consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Primary Industries and Energy.

Senators S Macdonald (New South Wales) and J Tierney (New South Wales) replaced Senators Campbell and Troeth for the consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Employment Education and Training.

Secretary: Mr Frank Nugent

Research Staff: Ms Cheryl Scarlett

Ms Rosie Jervis

1 Senator Crane was unable to attend the Committee's hearing for personal reasons.

136

Estimates Committee Έ'

REPORT TO THE SENATE ON ADDm ONAL ESTIMATES

1. Estimates Committee Έ' presents its report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

2. On 9 February 1994, the Senate referred to the Committee the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for 1993-94 and in relation to the following portfolios:

- Primary Industries and Energy - Administrative Services - Employment Education and Training

3. These expenditures were considered by the Committee which took into account the Program Performance Statements provided by each Department and the information obtained through its hearings on 24 February 1994. The Committee has heard evidence from the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy (Senator The Hon. Bob Collins) and

from officers of the Department and agencies on the estimates for the Primary Industries and Energy Portfolio. The Committee heard evidence from the Minister for Administrative Services (Senator The Hon. Bob McMullan) and from officers of the Department and agencies on the estimates for the Administrative Services Portfolio. The

Committee also heard evidence from the Minister for Science and Small Business (Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht), on behalf of Minister for Employment, Education and Training, and from officers of the Department and agencies on the estimates for the Employment, Education and Training Portfolio.

4. The Committee tables for the information of the Senate copies of the Minutes of Meetings, Hansard Transcripts of Evidence of Committee proceedings and a Table of Contents to the Hansards. The answers taken on notice at the Committee's hearings will be tabled in the Senate under separate cover in volumes entitled "Additional Information

Provided During Estimates Committee E's Examination of Additional Expenditure for

137

1993-94". Bulky bound documents not suitable for inclusion in the Additional Information which are furnished as part of answers will be listed in the Additional Volumes, tabled separately and will be available for viewing on request.

5. The Committee wishes to bring certain matters to the attention of the Senate.

IAYOUT OF PROGRAM PERFORMANCE STATEMENTS

6. During the Committee's hearings into the additional expenditure for the Administrative Services Portfolio, Senator Minchin expressed some dissatisfaction with the layout of the Program Performance Statements. He was concerned that the Statements setting out the additional expenditure for various programs do not show the original expenditure for those programs allocated in the budget.

For example, on page 13 it would really help in looking at these figures if the original estimates were listed on the left-hand side of the additional estimates so that those of us looking at what changes were occuring could see what is actually being proposed in relation to what the original estimate for the program was for the financial year.2

7. The Committee agrees with Senator Minchin's comments. Although the budget figures are set out in the budget papers it would be of considerable assistance to users of the Program Performance Statements for the additional estimates if these figures were also presented there.

RECOMMENDATIONS

8. Estimates Committee E recommends that the Senate approve expenditure in accordance with the estimates referred to the Committee.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE AND SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

9. The Standing Orders require the Committee, after considering the proposed expenditure and agreeing on its report to the Senate, to fix a date for the submission of

2 Senator N Minchin, Estimates Committee E Hansard, 24 February 1994, pp.29-30.

138

any written answers or additional information and for the commencement of supplementary hearings.

10. The Committee has decided that written answers and additional information shall be submitted by Tuesday, 8 March 1994. The Committee will commence its supplementary hearings on Friday, 18 March 1994.

ACKNOWLEDGMENT'S

11. The Committee is grateful for the assistance given by the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy (Senator The Hon. Bob Collins), the Minister for Administrative Services (Senator The Hon. Bob McMullan), the Minister for Science and Small Business (Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht) and by officers of the Departments and agencies

concerned.

/, J Devereux Chairman

139

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

MINUTES OF MEETINGS

ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES

1993-94

FOR

Wednesday, 9 February 1994 Thursday, 24 February 1994 Thursday, 24 February 1994 Wednesday, 2 March 1994

140

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE E

Informal Meeting Tuesday 8 February, 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING

The Committee met informally from 2.50 pm till 2.57 pm in the Government Advisers Area, outside the Senate Chamber.

2. ORDER OF DEPARTMENTS AND PROPOSED MEETING DATES

The Committee agreed to examine portfolios, time permitting, in the following order:

24 February Department of Primary Industries and Energy Department of Employment, Education and Training Department of Administrative Services

The Committee agreed to sit on the 25 February if required.

For the purpose of supplementary hearings, time permitting, the Committee agreed on the following:

18 March Department of Administrative Services Department of Employment, Education and Training 22 March Department of Primary Industries and Energy 23 March Department of Primary Industries and Energy

3. ATTENDANCE

Senators West (Chairperson), Campbell, Foreman, S Macdonald, Tierney and Troeth.

Apologies received from Senators Crane, Devereux, Minchin, Panizza and Teague.

CONFIRMED

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

142

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/15 Thursday 24 February 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met from 1.32 pm till 10.07 pm in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-1994

PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following department and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Primary Industries and Energy

Mr A Newton Mr B Lilburn Mr D Banfield Mr I Thompson Mr H Jacka Dr G Hooper

Mr J Landos Mr K Matthews Mr G Gorrie Mr B Wonder Mr B OMeagher Mr R Stevens Mr B Alderson

First Assistant Secretary, Crops Division Assistant Secretary, Crops Division Acting First Assistant Secretary, Land Resources Division Land Resources Division Executive Director, Australian Geological Survey Organisation Australian Plague Locust Commission Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service Executive Director, Headquarters Group First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Affairs Division First Assistant Secretary, Rural Division Assistant Secretary, Rural Division Australian Fisheries Management Authority First Assistant Secretary, Petroleum and Energy Policy Division

144

ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Bob McMullan, Minister for Administrative Services, answered questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following department and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Administrative Services

Mr T Barrell Mr B Peel

Ms J McKinnon Mr D Wilson

Acting Executive General Manager, DAS Corporate Acting General Manager, Corporate Policy and Government Relations General Manager, Ministerial and Parliamentary Services

Assistant General Manager, Overseas Construction and Services

EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, answered questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following department and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Employment, Education and Training

Mr W Gibbons Ms H Allnutt Mr R Peacock Mr M Gallagher

Mr J Moore Mr P Potterdon Mr I Campbell

Mr R Halstead Mr T Greer

Mr P Plunkett Ms R Doobov Mr T Brennan Ms F Davies

Deputy Secretary Assistant Secretary, Training Development Branch First Assistant Secretary, International Division First Assistant Secretary, Higher Education Division

First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Assistant Secretary, Economic and Policy Analysis Division First Assistant Secretary, Employment Programs Delivery Division

Acting First Asistant Secretary, A e a Coordination Division Acting First Asistant Secretary, Employer and Industry Programs Division Acting Asistant Secretary, Employer Services

Asistant Secretary, Student Youth Division Asistant Secretary, Performance and Review Division First Assistant Secretary, Student and Aboriginal Programs Division

145

4. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Campbell, Foreman, S Macdonald, Minchin, Teague, Tierney, Troeth and Zakharov.

Apologies were received from Senator Crane. Senator Chapman attended the Committee's hearing to ask questions on his behalf.

Also in attendance were Senators Baume, Boswell, and I Macdonald.

CONFIRMED

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

146

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

TABLE OF CONTENTS

FOR

HANSARD OF HEARINGS

FOR

Thursday, 24 February 1994

148

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

HANSARD INDEX

Thursday, 24 February 1994

Program Page

DEPARTMENT OF PRIM ARY INDUSTRIES AN D EN ERGY

General questions ...................................................................................................... 3-8

PROGRAM 2 - INDUSTRY AND COMMUNITY SERVICES

2.1 Natural Resources Management.................................................................. 8-10

2.2 Rural Adjustment and Services.................................................................. 11-24

2.6 Other Industry Services ............................................................................. 24-28

DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SER VICES

General questions ................................................................................................. 29-30

PROGRAM 1 - GOVERNMENT SERVICES

1.1 Ministerial and Parliamentary Services..................................................... 30-39

1.4 Overseas Property Management................................................................. 39-40

PROGRAM 2 - BUSINESS SERVICES

2.1 Asset Services ............................................................................................ 40-41

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT EDUCATION AND TRAINING

General questions ......................................................................................................... 42

PROGRAM 2 - HIGHER EDUCATION

2.1 Higher Education System................. 42-51

2.2 Targeted Research and Scientific Development ...................................... 51-53

PROGRAM 3 - VOCATIONAL EDUCATION AND TRAINING

3.3 Australian National Training Authority..................................................... 53-58

149

PROGRAM 4 - EMPLOYMENT

4.1 Employment Access..................................................................................... 58-64

4.2 Labour Adjustment Assistance.................................................................. 64-66

4.4 Employment Services.................................................................................. 66-69

PROGRAM 5 - EDUCATION ASSISTANCE AND INCOME SUPPORT

5.1 Education Income Support......................................................................... 69-75

PROGRAM 6 - CORPORATE SERVICES, PORTFOLIO ADVISING AND INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION

6.1 Executive Managment and National Corporate Services Programs ...................................................................................... 75-78

6.2 General Analysis and Advising .................................................................. 78-80

6.3 Language, Asian Studies and International Participation........................ 80-82

Questions on Notice ............................................................................................ 82-87

150

Minutes of Meetings

No. 37/17 of 17 March 1994

No. 37/18 of 22 March 1994

No. 37/19 of 22 March 1994

No. 37/20 of 23 March 1994

No. 37/21 of 24 March 1994

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E

151

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/17 Thursday 17 March 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING:

The Committee met from 9.20 am till 9.25 am in the Government Advisers Area outside the Senate Chamber.

2. ARRANGEMENTS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY MEETINGS

The Committee altered its arrangements for supplementary meetings of the Committee. The Committee agreed to cancel the meeting arranged for Friday 18 March 1994 and to meet instead on Tuesday 22 March 1994, ten minutes after the adjounment of the Senate. (Moved Senator Zakharov.)

3. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Campbell, Foreman, Tierney and Zakharov.

Senator S Macdonald was also in attendance.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

152

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/18 Tuesday 22 March 1994

1. PRIVATE MEETING:

The Committee met from 1.45 pm till 1.55 pm in the Government Advisers Area outside the Senate Chamber.

2. ARRANGEMENTS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY MEETINGS

The Committee revised its arrangements for supplementary meetings of the Committee because of the probable extension of the sitting hours of the Senate that evening.

It was decided that if the sitting hours are extended the Committee will meet during the dinner break, from 7.00 pm to 8.00 pm, to deal with the Primary Industries and Energy Portfolio. The Committee will then meet tomorrow morning, Wednesday 23 March 1994,

from 8.00 am till 9.30 am to deal with the Employment Education and Training Portfolio. A further hearing will be arranged for Thursday morning if required. (Moved Senator Tierney.)

Senator Campbell requested that his dissent from the decision of the Committee be recorded in the Minutes.

3. ATTENDANCE

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Campbell, Foreman, Tierney and Zakharov.

Senator S Macdonald was also in attendance.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

153

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/19 Tuesday 22 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met from 7.00 pm till 7.47 pm in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-1994

PRIMARY INDUSTRIES AND ENERGY PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Bob Collins, Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, answered supplementary questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee: '

Department of Primary Industries and Energy

Mr K Matthews Executive Director, Headquarters Group Mr B Wonder First Assistant Secretary, Rural Division Mr B O'Meagher Assistant Secretary, Rural Division

3. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Campbell, Foreman, S Macdonald and Zakharov.

Senator Boswell was also in attendance.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

154

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/20 Wednesday 23 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met from 8.05 am till 9.18 am in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-1994

EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, answered supplementary questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Employment, Education and Training

Mr M Gallagher Mr B Mutton

Mr D Brewster Mr T Greer

Mr P Plunkett Mr A Ruby

Ms F Davies

First Assistant Secretary, Higher Education Division Assistant Secretary, Cross Sectoral Branch, Economic and Policy Analysis Division Australian National Training Authority

Acting First Assistant Secretary, Employer and Industry Programs Division , Acting Assistant Secretary, Employer Services Deputy Secretary, Department of Employment Education

and Training First Assistant Secretary, Student and Aboriginal Programs Division

3. PRIVATE MEETING:

The Committee met privately from 9.18 am to 9.25 am. It was agreed that the Committee would meet from 7.30 am till 9.30 am on Thursday, 24 March 1994 to examine the additional estimates for the Administrative Services Portfolio and to complete its examination of the Employment, Education and Training Portfolio. (Moved Senator

Foreman.)

155

4. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Foreman, Tierney and Zakharov.

Senator Boswell was also in attendance.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

/ 1 y -.

' - T c ^ - - *

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

156

ESTIMATES COM M ITTEE Έ '

Minutes of Meeting No. 37/21 Thursday 24 March 1994

1. PUBLIC MEETING

The Committee met from 7.32 am till 9.02 am in Senate Committee Room 2S1. The Chairman, Senator Devereux, took the Chair.

2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1993-1994

ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, answered supplementary questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Administrative Services

Ms J McKinnon General Manager, Ministerial and Parliamentary Services

EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION AND TRAINING PORTFOLIO

Senator The Hon. Chris Schacht, Minister for Science and Small Business, answered supplementary questions on the additional estimates for this portfolio. The following departmental and agency staff assisted the Minister by providing information to the Committee:

Department of Employment, Education and Training

Mr I Campbell

Mr J Moore Mr W Gibbons

First Assistant Secretary, Employment Programs Delivery Division First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division Deputy Secretary, Department of Employment, Education

and Training

157

3. ATTENDANCE:

Senators Devereux (Chairman), Campbell, Foreman, Tierney and Zakharov.

Senator Tambling was also in attendance.

CERTIFIED CORRECT

'.v

J Devereux CHAIRMAN

158

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

R E P O R T TO T H E S E N A T E

MARCH 1994

159

M EM BERS O F T H E COM M ITTEE

CHAIRMAN:

MEMBERS:

Secretary:

Research Staff:

Senator Mai Colston (Queensland)

Senator Barney Cooney (Victoria)' Senator Christopher Ellison (Western Australia)A Senator Jim McKiernan (Western Australia) Senator James Short (Victoria)*# + Senator Amanda Vanstone (South Australia)" +

* Senator Baume to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Parliamentary Departments.

# Senator Calvert to replace Senator Short for the consideration of the estimates of the Attorney- General’s Department.

A Senators Knowles and McGauran to replace Senators Ellison and Vanstone for the

consideration of the estimates of the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs.

+ Senators McGauran and Patterson to replace Senators Short and Vanstone for the consideration of the estimates of the Department of Social Security.

' Senator Foreman was appointed as a member of the Committee to replace Senator Cooney for 24 February 1994 only.

Michael McLean

Rebecca Hazel Claire Shepherd

160

ESTIM ATES C O M M ITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F presents its report to the Senate.

INTRODUCTION

1. On 9 February 1994 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and report the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 and the particulars of certain proposed additional expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1994 of the

following portfolios:

. Parliament;

. Attorney-General;

. Immigration and Ethnic Affairs; and

. Social Security.

2. The Committee has considered the additional estimates for the year ending 30 June 1994 together with Program Performance Statements and has received evidence from the President of the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Senator the Hon.

Nick Bolkus, the Minister for Family Services, Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley and officers of the departments and agencies concerned. The Committee met in public session on 24 February 1994. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and an index to the Hansard transcript are incorporated in

this report. The Hansard volume is also tabled in conjunction with this report. Further written explanations furnished by departments will be presented separately in volumes of additional information.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters which arose during consideration of the estimates:

161

New procedures

4. This was the second round of hearings of the Committee under the new procedures adopted by the Senate on 6 May 1993 for the conduct of the estimates committees. It was, however, the first occasion for the consideration of the additional estimates of expenditure. The Committee expressed its support for the new procedures in its November 1993 Report on the Supplementary Meetings in relation to the 1993-94 Budget estimates, and it trusts that the forthcoming supplementary hearings into the additional estimates of expenditure will be similarly effective.

Quality of documentation

5. In its report to the Senate in May 1993 on the 1992-93 additional estimates of expenditure, the Committee urged portfolios to improve the quality of discussion in their Program Performance Statements (PPSs) of the impact of expected savings from annual appropriations on each program for which additional funds are being sought. The Committee noted that on this occasion the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio provided high quality reporting in this respect.

6. During the Committee's hearing on 24 February 1994 concern was expressed by some members that the explanations of proposed expenditure in the Social Security portfolio were cursory to the point of being uninformative. For example, the PPS gave equal prominence to proposed expenditure of $40 000 and $18 million. Such brevity is not only unnecessary in a document of only 16 pages, but the provision of greater detail in the documentation may have had the desirable effect of reducing the need for Senators to seek clarification during the hearing. Senator Crowley, as the Minister representing the Minister for Social Security, acknowledged the concerns expressed.

DATES FOR THE SUBMISSION OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION/ SUPPLEMENTARY HEARINGS

7. Pursuant to paragraph (l)(a) of the Senate's order of 6 May 1993, the Committee has set 11 March 1994 as the day for the submission to it of any written answers or additional information relating to the proposed additional expenditures examined by the Committee.

162

r'fi

8. Pursuant to paragraph (l)(b) of the Senate's order of 6 May 1993, the Committee has set 22 March 1994 as the day for the commencement of supplementary meetings to consider matters relating to the proposed additional expenditures examined by the Committee. Senators are reminded that, in accordance with paragraph (3) of the Senate's order,

notice of matters to be raised at this hearing should be lodged with the Committee not fewer than three days before the hearing date; that is, by 18 March 1994. Prior lodgement would be of assistance.

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

9. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given during its hearing by the President of the Senate, Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus and the Minister for Family Services,

Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley. The Committee also thanks the officials of the departments and agencies examined for their attendance and cooperation in answering questions, and for providing detailed written responses where sought.

' ' - x j

Mai Colston Chairman

163

DISSENTING REPORT

During the Committee's consideration of the additional appropriations of the Attorney-General's portfolio, Senator Vanstone sought details of the daily rates paid to defence counsel of persons charged with offences under the War Crimes Act. The Minister representing the Attorney-General, and the officers of the Department, declined to provide such detailed information, citing commercial-in-confidence and privacy considerations.

This issue was first raised in the Senate by Estimates Committee B in September 1980. It stated in its report that:

...the Committee unanimously concluded that the right to privacy is supervened by the acceptance by individual counsel of a brief on behalf of the Commonwealth for which money is appropriated by Parliament and payable from the public purse. The taxpayer is entitled to know what his counsel is being paid. (Report to the Senate, Estimates Committee B, 1 September 1980, page 7.)

The Committee went on to commend its approach to the Senate, which emphasised that in each case where the information was sought, the specific reason for seeking such information was clearly defined, and that injudicious or unwarranted invasion of privacy was not the Committee's intention or practice.

On 18 September 1980 a Committee of the Whole recommended that the approach of Estimates Committee B be affirmed (see Standing Orders and Other Orders o f the Senate, issued June 1993, page 127, paragraph 37). The Senate subsequently re­ affirmed in June 1984 the principle, first adopted by the Senate in 1971, that:

there are no areas of public funds where these corporations [statutory authorities] have a discretion to withhold details of explanations from Parliament or its Committees unless the Parliament has expressly provided otherwise .(Standing Orders and Other Orders o f the Senate, issued June 1993, pages 127-8, paragraph 38.)

We note the longstanding view of the Senate that claims of privacy and commercial- in-confidence are not sufficient reasons to take away the Committee's discretion to request and obtain details of expenditure nor sufficient justification for the refusal to supply details of expenditure to the Parliament or a committee. We also note that there are precedents of Attomeys-General providing details of payments made to

counsel as supplementary information to estimates committees. We therefore request the Attorney-General to provide the information on the daily rates paid to defence counsel in the war crimes trials as requested.

«XJM

Senator Vanstone SENATOR FOR S.A.

164

T H E SEN A TE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.9.

THURSDAY, 10 FEBRUARY 1994

ESTIM A TES C O M M ITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 9.22 am in the Government Advisers' Lobby.

2. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary announced that the position of Committee Chairman was vacant following the election by the Senate of Senator Beahan as President. He called for nominations for Chairman of the Committee. Senator McKiernan nominated

Senator Colston. There being no other nominations, Senator Colston was declared elected and took the Chair.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.23 am.

4. ATTENDANCE: Senators Cooney, Colston, Ellison, McKiernan, Short and Vanstone.

CONFIRMED:

4

Mai Colston Chairman

165

T H E SEN A TE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.IO

THURSDAY, 24 FEBRUARY 1994

ESTIM ATES CO M M ITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 1.35 p.m. in Committee Room 2S3. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: PARLIAMENT: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed expenditure of the parliamentary departments.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Michael Beahan, President of the Senate, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of the Senate:

Mr H. Evans, Clerk of the Senate Ms A. Lynch, Deputy Clerk Mr J. Vander Wyk, Clerk-Assistant (Corporate Management) Dr R. Laing, Clerk-Assistant (Committees) Mr P. O'Keeffe, Clerk-Assistant (Procedure) Mr T. Brown, Acting Clerk-Assistant (Table) Mr R. Alison, Usher of the Black Rod Mr G. Nankervis, Director, Finance Management Section Ms H. Donaldson, Director, Human Resource Management Section

Department of the Parliamentary Library:

Mr J.W. Templeton, Convenor, Library Implementation Group Mr A.J. Wilson, Acting Manager, Program 1 Dr J. Verrier, Head, Parliamentary Research Service Mr R. McL. Johnston, Adviser, Evaluation and Audit Ms J.A. Hutchinson, Executive Assistant Mr J. Little, Acting Director, Finance Ms G. Lindfleld, Manager, Finance Ms J. Clarke, Manager, Personnel Mr B. Sweeney, Manager, General Services Mr C. Boreham, Manager, Information Systems and Planning

166

Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff:

. Mr J.W. Templeton, Secretary Mr B. Sharp, Manager, Sound and Vision Office Mr J. Walsh, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Management Branch Mr M. McGregor, Assistant Chief Reporter (Senate), Hansard Division

Mr G. Coble, Director, Client Support, Parliamentary Information Systems Office

Joint House Department:

Mr M. Bolton, Secretary Mr J. Porter, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Rankin, Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Supply Services Mr R. Wedgwood, Assistant Secretary, Commercial Services

Mr F. Bradley, Assistant Secretary, Property Management

Department of Finance:

Mr G. Adams

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the additional estimates of the parliamentary departments in the following order: the Department of the Senate, the Department of the Parliamentary Library, the Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff and the Joint House Department. In relation to each department, as appropriate, the Chairman invited

questions in relation to variations not allocated to programs and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs for which additional appropriation was being sought as they appeared in the Program Performance Statements.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Parliament, subject to undertakings by the President and officers to provide additional information to the

Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

167

Ms M. Ellis, Acting Assistant Secretary, Residence and Temporary Entrants Branch Mr G. Chapman, Acting Assistant Secretary, Overseas Operations Branch Mr L. Bugden, Assistant Secretary, Refugees, Asylum and International

Branch Ms S. Ingram, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Entry, Compliance and Systems Division Mr P. Job, Director, Policy and Procedures Section, November 1 Task Force Mr D. Gastello, Assistant Secretary, Executive Support and Review Branch Mr P. Hughes, Assistant Secretary, Migrant Entry and Citizenship Branch Ms J. Bedlington, First Assistant Secretary, Onshore Refugee Division Ms P. Leehy, Registrar, Refugee Review Tribunal Mr D. Storer, First Assistant Secretary, Settlement and Ethnic Affairs

Division Ms P. McCahey, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate and International Division Mr A. Rizvi, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch Mr K. Mann, Acting Director, Budget Management Section

Mr B. Mowbray, General Counsel Mr D. Walker, Acting Assistant Secretary, Litigation and Refugee Law Branch

Department of Finance:

Mr P. Antcliff

9. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the additional estimates of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio. The Chairman invited questions in relation to variations not allocated to programs and then questions in respect of the programs and sub-programs for which additional appropriation was being sought as they appeared in the Program Performance

Statements.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide additional information to the Committee.

10. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: SOCIAL SECURITY PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure of the Social Security portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, representing the Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers:

170

Department of Social Security:

Mr J. Bowdler, Deputy Secretary, Programs Mr B. Godfrey, Deputy Secretary, Corporate Mr J. Humphreys, National Manager, Operations Mr P. Marrs, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Division

Mr M. Goldstein, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Division Mr D. Stanton, First Assistant Secretary, Family Programs Division Mr C. Butel, First Assistant Secretary, Program Delivery Division Mr J. Wadeson, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Division

Mr I. Carnell, First Assistant Secretary, Security, Fraud and Control Division Ms L. Briggs, First Assistant Secretary, Social Policy Division Mr V. Rogers, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Division Mr M. Sassella, Principal Adviser, Legal Services Group

Mr A. Phelan, Assistant Secretary, Resources Branch Mr G. Deeper, Assistant Secretary, Budget Co-ordination and Corporate Planning Mr D. Tune, Assistant Secretary, Retirement Programs Branch

Ms M. Kilpatrick, Assistant Secretary, Family Program Branch Ms C. Zanetti, Assistant Secretary, Sole Parent Program Branch Mr J. Powlay, Assistant Secretary, Performance and Change Management Branch

Ms J. Raymond, Assistant Secretary, Retirement Incomes Policy and Economic Analysis Ms M. Morris, Acting Assistant Secretary, Family Assistance and Housing Policy

Department of Finance:

Ms A. Dobes Ms G. Bramley

11. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the additional estimates of the Social Security portfolio. The Chairman invited questions in relation to variations not allocated to programs and then questions in respect of the programs

and sub-programs for which additional appropriation was being sought as they appeared in the Program Performance Statements.

The Committee concluded its examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Social Security portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to provide additional

information to the Committee.

12. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.45 p.m.

171

13. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Baume, Calvert, Ellison, Foreman, Knowles, McGauran, McKieman, Patterson, Short and Vanstone.

Senator Kemp also participated in the Committee's proceedings.

CONFIRMED:

Mai Colston Chairman

THE SENATE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS N O .ll

WEDNESDAY, 2 MARCH 1994

ESTIM A TES C O M M ITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 9.17 a.m. in Suite S1.22, Parliament House. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings of the meetings held on 10 February and 24 February 1994 (Nos. 9 and 10) were confirmed.

3. COMMITTEE REPORT: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft report. The Committee adopted the draft report as the report of the Committee for tabling in the Senate on 3 March 1994, subject to the further consideration of a m atter raised by Senator Vanstone.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.23 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Ellison and Vanstone.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Mai Colston Chairman

173

ESTIM A TES CO M M ITTEE F HANSARD IND EX

Thursday, 24 February 1994

General

Attendees F I

Chairman's Statement F2

Department of the Senate

Statement by the President F3

Program 4 - Committee Office F3

Department of the Parliamentary Library

Program 1 - Information Resources and Services

Sub-program 1.1 - Information Resources F12

Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff

General

Chairman's Statement F19

Program 2 - Information Systems

Sub-program 2.4 - Communications and Certification F20

Program 3 - Sound and Vision Systems

Derivation of Program Specific Variation F21

Joint House Department

General

Chairman's Statement F23

174

Attorney General's portfolio

General

Attendees Chairman's Statement Variations not allocated to programs

Program 1 - Legal Services to the Commonwealth

Sub-program 1.1 - Legal Practice

Program 2 - Business and Consumer Affairs

Sub-program 2.3 - Consumer Affairs

Program 3 - Community Affairs

Sub-program 3.1 - Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Sub-program 3.2 - Law Reform Commission Sub-program 3.3 - Office of Film and Literature Classification Sub-program 3.4 - Provision of Legal Aid and Family Services

Program 4 - Administration of Justice

Sub-program 4.1 - Federal Court of Australia Sub-program 4.4 - Other Tribunals

Program 6 - Maintenance of Law, Order and Security

Sub-program 6.1 - Australian Federal Police

F24 F24 F24

F26

F30

F32 F33 F35

F47 F50

F56

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio

General

Attendees F57

Chairman's Statement F57

Variations not allocated to programs F58

Program 2 - Entry

Sub-program 2.1 - Migration and Temporary Entry Sub-program 2.4 - Investigation and Enforcement

F71 F73

F75

Program 4 - Determination of Refugee Status

Sub-program 4.1 - Determination and Services

Program 5 - Settlement and Ethnic Affairs

Sub-program 5.2 - Settlement F80

Program 6 - Corporate Services

Sub-program 6.1 - Management Services F81

Social Security portfolio

General

Attendees F82

Variations not allocated to programs F83

Program 2 - Income Security for People with Disabilities and the Sick

Sub-program 2.7 - Postal Concessions for the Blind F102

176

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

A D D IT IO N A L E ST IM A T E S 1 9 9 3 -9 4

M IN U T E S OF

S U P P L E M E N T A R Y H E A R IN G S H E L D IN M ARCH 1994

MAY 1994

177

THE SENATE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO.12

TUESDAY, 22 MARCH 1994

ESTIM ATES COM M ITTEE F

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.02 a.m. in Committee Room 2S1. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplementary consideration of the proposed additional expenditure of the Attorney-General's portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, representing the Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General's Department:

Mr N. Reaburn, Deputy Secretary Mr D. Boucher, Australian Government Solicitor Mr P. May, Acting General Manager, Practice Management

Australian Federal Police:

Mr A. Hoitink, Assistant Secretary, Resources and Services Division Mr A. Whiddett, Deputy Commissioner Mr G. Thompson, Acting Executive Officer, Resource Monitoring Branch

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the matters in relation to the Attorney-General's portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Attorney-General's portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to

provide additional information to the Committee.

178

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplementary consideration of the proposed expenditure of the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Nick Bolkus, Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs:

Mr C. Conybeare, Secretary Mr D. Richardson, Deputy Secretary Mr M. Sullivan, Deputy Secretary Mr D. Wheen, First Assistant Secretary, Migration Division

Mr V. McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Migration Planning Branch Ms S. Ingram, Assistant Secretary, Compliance Branch Mr P. Judd, Assistant Secretary, November 1 Task Force Mr P. Job, Director, Policy and Procedures Section, November 1 Task Force

Mr D. Gastello, Assistant Secretary, Executive Support and Review Branch Ms J. Bedlington, First Assistant Secretary, Onshore Refugee Division Mr D. Storer, First Assistant Secretary, Settlement and Ethnic Affairs Division

Ms P. McCahey, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate and International Division Mr E. Brookbanks, Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Branch Mr G. Hackett, Director, Resource Systems Section

Mr A. Metcalfe, Assistant Secretary, Advisings, Legislation and Legal Policy Branch

6. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the matters in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Immigration and Ethnic Affairs portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers

to provide additional information to the Committee.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.24 a.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Knowles, McGauran, McKieman, Patterson, Short, Vanstone and Zakharov.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

Mai Colston Chairman

179

THE SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS NO. 13

THURSDAY, 24 MARCH 1994

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 8.12 a.m. in Committee Room 1S4. Senator Colston took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an opening statement.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR 1993-94: SOCIAL SECURITY PORTFOLIO: The Committee commenced its supplementary consideration of the proposed additional expenditure of the Social Security portfolio.

In attendance was Senator the Hon. Rosemary Crowley, Minister for Family Services, representing the Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers:

Department of Social Security: ·

Mr J. Bowdler, Deputy Secretary, Programs Mr B. Godfrey, Deputy Secretary, Corporate Mr M. Goldstein, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Management Division Mr V. Rogers, First Assistant Secretary, Systems Division Mr G. Leeper, Assistant Secretary, Budget Co-ordination and Corporate

Planning

Department of Finance:

Ms R. Bradley, Chief Finance Officer, Social Welfare Branch

4. CONSIDERATION OF THE ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: The Chairman called on the matters in relation to the Social Security portfolio for which Senators had given notice.

The sitting was suspended between 10.01 and 10.06 a.m., 10.30 and 10.34 a.m. and 10.39 and 10.53 a.m.

The Committee concluded its supplementary examination of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1994 in relation to the Social Security portfolio, subject to undertakings by the Minister and officers to

provide additional information to the Committee.

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5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.55 a.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: Senators Colston (Chairman), Ellison, McGauran, McKieman, Patterson, and Zakharov.

CERTIFIED CORRECT:

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Mai Colston Chairman

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