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Reports, together with Hansard record of proceedings - Committees A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H on Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for year 1980-81


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The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E, F, G AND H

Reports to the Senate on Departmental Additional Estimates 1980-81

May 1981

Brought up and ordered to be printed 12 May 1981

Parliamentary Paper No. 97/1981

Parliam entary Paper No. 97/1981 "

The Parliam ent of the Com m onwealth of Australia

SENATE ESTIM ATES C O M M ITTEES A, B. C, D, E, F, G AND H

Reports to the Senate on D epartm ental Additional Estimates 1980-81

May 1981

The Commonwealth Government Printer

Canberra 19X2

© Commonwealth of Australia 1982

ISBN 0 642 06776 7

Printed by Authority by the Commonwealth Government Printer

Contents

Page

1. Resolutions of the Senate 2 April 1981 ............................................................................................. v

2. Estimates Committee A Report ....................................................................................................... 3

Minutes of Proceedings 9 April 1981 9

27 April 1981 10

30 April 1981 14

6 May 1981 15

3. Estimates Committee B R e p o r t ....................................................................................................... 19

Minutes of Proceedings 7 April 1981 29

27 April 1981 30

7 May 1981 34

12 May 1981 35

4. Estimates Committee C Report ....................................................................................................... 39

Minutes of Proceedings 9 April 1981 43

27 April 1981 44

7 May 1981 49

5. Estimates Committee D R e p o r t ....................................................................................................... 54

Minutes of Proceedings 8 April 1981 61

30 April 1981 62

7 May 1981 66

6. Estimates Committee E Report ....................................................................................................... 69

Minutes of Proceedings 8 April 1981 75

30 April 1981 ........................................................................................

7 May 1981 80

7. Estimates Committee F R e p o r t ....................................................................................................... 83

Minutes of Proceedings 7 April 1981 87

30 April 1981 88

7 May 1981 91

iii

Page

8. Estimates Committee G Report ...................................................................................................... 95

Minutes of Proceedings 29 April 1981 99

4 May 1981 100

4 May 1981 (deliberative) ............................................................... 104

7 May 1981 105

9. Estimates Committee H Report ...................................................................................................... 109

Minutes of Proceedings 9 April 1981 113

4 May 1981 114

12 May 1981 117

RESOLUTIONS OF THE SENATE

Passed 26 November 1980

Estimates Committee— Appointment o f Members: The President informed the Senate that he had received letters, in accordance with Standing Order 36AB, from the Leader of the Government in the Senate and the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate nominating Senators to serve on Estimates Committees, as follows:

Estimates Committee A Senators Colston, Davidson, Hearn, McLaren, Watson and Young Estimates Committee B Senators Button, Evans, Hamer, Lewis, Rae and Tate Estimates Committee C

Senators Bonner, Coleman, Grimes, Mulvihill, Sheil and Walters Estimates Committee D Senators Elstob, Gietzelt, Jessop, MacGibbon, Robertson and Townley Estimates Committee E

Senators Archer, McAuliffe, Primmer, Rocher, Thomas and Walsh Estimates Committee F Senators Kilgariflf, McIntosh, Neal, Ryan, Sibraa and Sim The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator Baume), by leave, moved That the

Senators, having been duly nominated in accordance with Standing Order 36AB, be appointed members of the respective Committees. Question—put and passed.

Passed 2 April 1981

Estimates Committees— Appointment o f Committees G and H and Reference oj Par­ ticulars o f Proposed Additional Expenditure 1980-81: The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator Baume), by leave, amended Government Business, Notice of Motion No. 4 standing in the name of the Minister for Social Security (Senator

Chaney).

Senator Baume then, at the request of Senator Chaney and pursuant to Notice of Motion not objected to as a Formal Motion, moved— That, pursuant to the pro­ visions of Standing Order 36AB, and unless otherwise ordered

(1) Two additional Estimates Committees be appointed to be known as Esti­ mates Committees G and H.

(2) The Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Ad­ ditional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 be re­ ferred herewith to Estimates Committees for examination and report.

(3) The Committees consider the Proposed Additional Expenditure in relation to Departments, as follows:

Estimates Committee A Parliament Attorney-General’s Industrial Relations Business and Consumer Affairs

v

Estimates Committee B Education Communications Home Affairs and Environment Estimates Committee C

Prime Minister and Cabinet Treasury Finance Administrative Services Estimates Committee D

Defence Foreign Affairs Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Estimates Committee E

National Development and Energy Employment and Youth Affairs Housing and Construction Estimates Committee F

Science and Technology Capital Territory Transport Estimates Committee G Health Social Security Veterans’ Affairs Aboriginal Affairs Estimates Committee H Primary Industry Industry and Commerce Trade and Resources

(4) The Committees report to the Senate on or before Tuesday 12 May 1981. Question — put and passed.

Estimates Committees— Changes in Membership: The President informed the Senate that he had received letters from the Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Carrick) and the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator Button) requesting variations in the membership of Estimates Committees A, B. C, D, E, and F and nominating Senators to be members of Estimates Committees G and H.

The Attorney-General (Senator Durack), by leave, moved (1) That the following Senators be discharged from further attendance on the Com­ mittees indicated Estimates Committee A—

Senators Colston, Davidson, Hearn, McLaren, Watson and Young Estimates Committee B— Senators Evans, Hamer, Lewis, Rae and Tate Estimates Committee C—

Senators Bonner, Coleman, Grimes, Mulvihill and Walters

VI

Estimates Committee D— Senators Elstob, Gietzelt, Jessop, MacGibbon, Robertson and Townley Estimates Committee E— Senators Archer, McAuliffe, Primmer and Walsh Estimates Committee F—

Senators Kilgariff, McIntosh, Neal, Ryan, Sibraa and Sim (2) That the following Senators, having been duly nominated in accordance with Standing Order 36AB, be appointed members of the Committees indicated— Estimates Committee A —

Senators Bishop, Evans, Hamer, Maunsell, Rae and Tate Estimates Committee B— Senators Davidson, Hearn, Martin, Puplick and Ryan Estimates Committee C—

Senators Bjelke-Petersen, Gietzelt, Lewis, McClelland, McLaren and Martyr Estimates Committee D— Senators Collard, Kilgariff, McIntosh, Mulvihill, Sibraa and Watson Estimates Committee E—

Senators Elstob, Robertson, Scott, Wheeldon and Young Estimates Committee F— Senators Jessop, MacGibbon, Melzer, Mulvihill, Georges and Townley Estimates Committee G—

Senators Bonner, Coleman, Colston, Grimes, Teague and Walters Estimates Committee H— Senators Archer, Lajovic, McAuliffe, Neal, Primmer and Walsh Question -put and passed.

vii

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for the year 1980-81 relating to the following departments: Parliament Attorney-General’s

Industrial Relations Business and Consumer Affairs

2. The Committee has considered these Additional Estimates, together with the De­ partmental Explanatory Notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the Chairman of Committees, Senator Maunsell, the Attorney-General, Senator Durack, and officers of the departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and

Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1980-81 and Appropri­ ation Bill (No. 4) 1980-81. Answers to questions which were deferred and sub­ sequently given in writing since the Committee's last hearings will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Additional Estimates:

ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT (a) Counsel’s fees On 18 September 1980, the Senate adopted a report of the Committee of the Whole which included a resolution affirming:

that the right to privacy of individual counsel accepting a brief on behalf of the Com­ monwealth for which money is appropriated by Parliament is supervened by such ac­ ceptance, subject to the reasons for the information being clearly defined and to the pro­ viso that injudicious or unwarranted invasion of privacy is not the intention of the

Parliament or its Committees.

During debate on the Report of Estimates Committee B which gave rise to the affirmation, the Attorney-General indicated in the Senate his reservations concerning the desirability of releasing such information. This question was again raised during the Committee's most recent hearings. The

Attorney-General advised the Committee that he had received representations from counsel, and from the President of the Bar Council of New South Wales supporting the representations made, concerning the implications of the Committee's request for de­ tails of individual counsel’s fees.

The Committee, having considered the matter further at a private meeting, concluded that for the purposes of this hearing it must, under the terms of the Senate resolution, continue the established practice. It emphasises the point made in its last Report that, in each case where the information was sought, the specific reason for seeking such information was clearly defined, and that injudicious or unwarranted in­

vasion of privacy was not the Committee’s intention or practice.

3

However, in view of the concern expressed, the Committee has written to the Presi­ dent of the New South Wales Council inviting him to make a submission to the Com­ mittee expanding upon the reasons for the Council’s objections to the attitude the Com­ mittee has taken. Should the Council put forward a compelling case in support of its objections, the Committee could raise the matter for the further consideration of the Senate. In the meantime, the Committee intends to continue the current practice which applies to all consultants and others providing professional services paid for from public moneys.

The decision of the Committee was conveyed to the Attorney-General, who pro­ vided the Committee with the outstanding information which had been sought at the public hearings on 27 April 1981.

(b) Payments to judges A recurring theme in Estimates Committees' examination of the proposed appro­ priations for the Attorney-General’s Department has been the making of certain pay­ ments to judges without legislative authority. The objections raised over a long period were finally met by the passage of appropriate legislation through the Parliament in

1979.

The Additional Estimates for 1980-81, however, revealed that a total of $154 400 had been paid through the Advance to the Minister for Finance to certain Australian judges of the Supreme Court of Justice of Papua New Guinea. It was explained to the Committee that the payments had been made in fulfilment of a long-standing agree­

ment made between the Attorney-General and the judges concerned, at the time when independence was taking place and before the question of legislative backing for such payments was finally determined within Australia. Legislative provision for this agree­ ment was made in Papua New Guinea and upon a basis that Australia would pay any amount not paid by the Government of Papua New Guinea.

It appears to the Committee, following consideration of explanations provided at the hearing, that there is an identifiable difference in principle between payments made without Australian legislative authority in this instance, on the one hand, and payments made to judges within Australia without such authority, on the other. The major difference perceived by the Committee is that the payments made to the judges serving in Papua New Guinea were a form of international aid for which Australia has assumed a responsibility to make payments. This is in contrast to the principle which the Com­

mittee has sought to uphold that the financial arrangements between the government and judiciary of a country should be totally known and made public within that country, to avoid the possibility of a government influencing a judiciary by offering pri­ vate terms.

DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS Industrial Relations Bureau The Committee noted that the Industrial Relations Bureau had been able to absorb all national wage and work value costs within its existing appropriation for staffing. The

Director of the Bureau explained that this had been achieved because certain separ­ ations and retirements allowed for in the original estimates had not eventuated. The Committee notes that as a result of the Committee’s report to the Senate in September 1980 and the Senate resolutions of 18 September and 4 December 1980, the Depart­ ment of Finance is conducting an investigation into the Bureau. We await with interest the report of the Department of Finance, which is expected to be tabled shortly, on the financial management of the Bureau.

4

The Committee also identified two problems experienced by the Bureau in relation to telecommunications costs. The first concerned the Bureau's seeking an increase in Estimates flowing from two-monthly billing in lieu of quarterly billing by Telecom. This problem did not appear to have occurred within other departments examined by the

Committee. The second related to the cost of a Telecom installation within the Bureau, which was seriously underestimated at the time the original estimates were prepared. It was not clear to the Committee whether the miscalculation had occurred as the result of inadequate technical advice or of uncertainty as to the requirements of the Bureau.

The Committee suggests, however, that both matters might be taken up by the Com­ mittee responsible for examining the Telecom and Industrial Relations Bureau Esti­ mates during the Budget Sittings.

GENERAL COMMENTS

Departmental hire car charges The Committee noted, in the course of its hearings, the dependency of all depart­ ments and authorities upon the purchasing and hiring practices of the Department of Administrative Services in relation to the provision of cars. For example, following its

examination of the Estimates of the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs- a substantial full-time user of Commonwealth vehicles with a hiring cost to the Depart­ ment of more than $1 million annually—the Committee concluded that, with the aver­ age cost of hire cars being approximately $4000 per year, and bearing in mind the sales

tax exempt discount buying facility available to the Commonwealth, the Department of Administrative Services must be receiving almost the full purchase price of the aver­ age vehicle in annual hiring charges. Officers of the Department of Business and Con­ sumer Affairs informed the Committee that the vehicles used by the Department were

replaced every two to three years. Thus, prima facie, the Department of Administrat­ ive Services appears to be charging more than double the new-car price over the life of a hire car. It was further ascertained that the hire charges were increased in November, with

retrospective application to 1 July, and that hapless departments and authorities, with no recourse to other measures such as purchasing their own vehicles, had no alternative but to seek additional estimates or absorb the increased costs.

Estimates Committee B has had occasion in the past to query the high level of hire car charges made by the Department of Administrative Services, and this Committee again draws to the attention of the Senate and the relevant Estimates Committee these latest examples which, in the Committee's view, require further examination.

Departmental Explanatory Notes The Committee has commented in previous reports on the gradual evolution of Ex­ planatory Notes so that, with some exceptions, departments and authorities are now providing the Committees with invaluable information in a readily understood form. In

the course of the Committee's current examination of the Estimates, two suggestions were made for the improvement of the standardised format, which the Committee com­ mends to the Senate and the Department of Finance for consideration. The first relates to the provision of details of the variation between moneys provided under Appropri­

ation Acts Nos 1 and 2, and the amounts proposed in Bills Nos 3 and 4. The Committee considers that the insertion of such a breakdown in each item would greatly assist in the evaluation of the amounts sought. Secondly, the Committee considers that confusion might be avoided if the headings of the dissection of each item were designated 'Re­

vised' rather than 'Additional' Estimates, or, alternatively, followed the same headings as those used in the general breakdown of the items.

5

Estimates Committee hearings Some discontent was expressed by members of the Committee concerning the cir­ cumstances surrounding the holding of the meeting of Estimates Committee A. It was pointed out that, as a consequence of both the airline strike and decisions made in re­

lation to the Committee’s hearings, the opportunities for preparation for the meeting were less than adequate. The Committee was pleased to note, however, the beneficial effects of having a full­ time research officer available to it. While, for the reasons mentioned, the Committee was not able to take full advantage of the increased service provided, the Committee has no doubt that its capacity for more effective examination of Estimates at future hearings will be greatly enhanced.

4. In conclusion, the Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Chairman of Committees, the Attorney-General and the officers of the various de­ partments who assisted the Committee.

12 May 1981

P. E. RAE Chairman

6

Estimates Committee A Minutes of Proceedings

THURSDAY 9 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROC EEDINGS No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1 p.m. in Senate Committee Room 6.

2. APPOINTMENT AND MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 26 November 1980 recording the appointment and mem­ bership of the Committee was reported.

3. CHANGE IN' MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 2 April 1981 recording the following changes in the member­ ship of the Committee was reported:

Discharged: Senators Colston, Davidson, Hearn, McLaren, Watson and Young Appointed: Senators Bishop, Evans, Hamer, Maunsell, Rae and Tate

4. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Rae, having been nominated by Senator Hamer, seconded Senator Bishop, was elected Chairman of the Committee. Senator Rae thereupon took the Chair.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate of 2 April 1981 referring to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1980 81 lor the following departments:

Parliament Attorney-General’s Department Department of Industrial Relations Department of Business and Consumer Affairs

6. MANNER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee discussed the pro­ cedures to be followed in the consideration of the Estimates. J he Committee noted that background papers would be provided to members before the public hearings on 27 April 1981. It was agreed that, should more time be required lor public examination ol

Departments, the Committee would conduct further hearings on Friday 8 May 1981.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.05 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senator Rae (Chairman) and Senators Bishop. I vans. Hamer and Tate.

9

P. I . RAF Chairman

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

MONDAY 27 APRIL 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.30 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the year ending on 30 June 1981.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81 PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

In attendance: Senator C. R. Maunsell, Chairman of Committees (representing the President of the Senate), accompanied by the following officers: Department o f the Senate— Mr A. R. Cumming Thom, Acting Clerk of the Senate

Mr H. G. Smith, Clerk-Assistant Mr P. Murdoch, Usher of the Black Rod Mr C. Edwards, Acting Senior Clerk of Committees Mr M. Rosser, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Inter-Parliamentary Union) Mr G. Nankervis, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Administration) Parliamentary Reporting Staff- -

Mr J. W. Roberts, Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr M. Farrelley, Personnel Officer Joint House Department— Mr J. M. Jorgensen, Secretary

Mr F. W. Bradley, Director, Finance and Administration Mr C. R. Crapp, Acting Principal Technical Officer Parliamentary Library Mr H. Weir, Parliamentary Librarian

Mr M. Bray, Chief Executive Officer, Management Services Branch Mr H. Knight, Finance Officer Mrs L. Brennan, Estimates Officer Department o f Finance—

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr D. A. Connelly, Acting Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following divisions for consideration:

Divisions 101, 103, 105 Parliamentary Departments (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Parliamentary Departments, subject to a request being made that it resume to consider further any of the matters which were raised.

10

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81 — ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT In attendance: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Attorney-General’s Department— Mr Η. T. Bennett, Deputy Secretary Mr B. J. O’Donovan, Crown Solicitor Mr L. G. Glare, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Special Services

Division Mr L. J. Curtis, First Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts, Family Law, Terri­ tories and Law Reform Division Mr A. C. Menzies, First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division

Mr A. R. Watson, Acting First Assistant Crown Solicitor Mr J. F. Thomson, Assistant Director, Australian Legal Aid Office Mr P. E. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr M. G. Dwyer, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch

Mr R. Smeaton, Assistant Secretary, Establishment and Planning Branch Mr A. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Mr G. K. Kolts, First Parliamentary Counsel Mr C. B. S. Fernando, Acting Deputy Chairman, Commonwealth Legal Aid

Commission Mr K. Crotty, Clerk, High Court of Australia Mr P. Browning, Acting Senior Finance Officer Department of Finance—

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr T. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr R. Barlin, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 165, 172, 173, 175, 179, 186, 188, 189 192 Attorney-General's Depart­ ment (Document A) Division 823—Attorney-General’s Department (Document B) The Committee deferred further consideration of Division 165 and suspended its con­ sideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Attorney-General's

Department.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81: DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS In attendance: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General (representing the Minister for Business and Consumer Affairs), accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Business and Consumer Affairs- -Mr J. L. Gibson, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. J. Carmody, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr P. Kennedy, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Affairs Division

Mr B. Cody, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr K. O. Stilling, Assistant Secretary. Automatic Data Processing Mr W. Symington, Assistant Secretary, Business Economics Mr R. Janeczko, Acting Director, Finance and Property Mr R. M. Hullick, Acting Assistant Director. Finance

industries Assistance Commission— Mr F. Nott, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Services Branch Mr P. L. Ward, Finance Officer Trade Practices Commission—

Mr K. Harris, Assistant Commissioner, Policy Planning and Secretariat Department o f Finance— Mr T. Moloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr R. Barlin, Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 195, 202, 205—Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document A) Division 833 Department of Business and Consumer Affairs (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs, subject to a request being made that it resume to consider further any of the matters which were raised.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81: DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS In attendance: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General (representing the Minister for Industrial Relations), accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Industrial Relations— Mr Μ. B. Keogh, Secretary Mr J. Maher, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Woodrow, First Assistant Secretary, Labour Economics, Review and

Services Mr K. A. Power, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. T. Coffey, Director, Personnel and Projects Mr F. B. Kovachevich, Director, Finance and Services Mr G. N. Patrick, Finance Officer Mr 3. P. Grant, Finance Officer Industrial Relations Bureau-

Mr D. L. Linehan, [Director Mr A. E. Doolan, Senior Executive Officer Trade Union Training Authority -Commissioner Μ. E. Heagney, National Director

Mr P. A. Wade, Administrator Department o f Finance— Mr T. Maloney, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 370, 372, 374, 376, 378 Department of Industrial Relations (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure lor the Department of Industrial Relations, subject to a request being made that it resume

to consider further any of the matters which were raised.

7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT In attendance: Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration:

Division 165 Attorney-General's Department (Document A)

12

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Attorney-General’s Department, subject to a request being made that it resume to consider further any of the matters which were raised.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 8.58 p.m.

9. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman), Senator G. J. Evans, Senator C. R. Maunsell and Senator M. C. Tate. Senators Button and Robertson also attended.

P. E. RAE

Chairman

THURSDAY 30 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 5. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

2. FURTHER PUBLIC HEARINGS: The Committee decided not to proceed with the proposed extra hearings which had been scheduled for Friday 8 May 1981, if required.

3. COUNSEL’S FEES—REQUEST FOR INFORMATION: The Committee dis­ cussed whether, in view of objections raised with the Attorney-General by certain counsel engaged in the Social Security conspiracy case, and supported by the New South Wales Bar Council, the practice of requesting details of individual counsel’s fees should be pursued.

It was agreed, after discussion, that in accordance with the resolution of the Senate of 18 September 1980 the Committee, for the purposes of the present hearing, continue to seek the information. Accordingly, it was also agreed that the Attorney-General be requested to provide detailed information concerning fees paid to counsel engaged in the proceedings of the Royal Commission on the Painters’ and Dockers’ Union.

It was further decided, after discussion, that the New South Wales Bar Council be invited to make a submission to the Committee in support of its objections to the Senate’s practice.

4. DRAFT REPORT: It was agreed that the Chairman’s Draft Report be considered by the Committee at a meeting to be held on Wednesday 6 May 1981, at 6 p.m.

5. APOLOGY: Senator Bishop tendered an apology for his absence from the Com­ mittee’s public hearings on 27 April 1981, indicating that his absence had been caused by difficulties arising from the flight attendants’ strike.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.10p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman), Senator the Hon. R. Bishop, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator C. R. Maunsell and Senator M. C. Tate. An apology was received from Senator D. J. Hamer.

P E. RAE Chairman

14

WEDNESDAY 6 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 4

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room No. 3. The Chairman (Senator Rae) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 9, 27 and 30 April 1981, circulated at the meeting, were confirmed, subject to any amendments proposed by Committee members being conveyed to the Secretary by 11 p.m., 6 May 1981.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Re­ port to the Senate.

Resolved: That the draft Report be agreed to with an amendment, and subject to further amendment if certain information is not received by the Committee prior to the tabling of the Report.

4. OTFIER BUSINESS: Resolved: That a further letter be sent to the President of the New South Wales Bar Council clarifying the basis of the Committee’s attitude deter­ mined at its meeting on 30 April 1981.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.10 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator P. E. Rae (Chairman), Senator the Hon. R. Bishop, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator D. J. I lamer.

P E. RAE Chairman

15

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE B

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the year 1980-81, relating to the following departments:

Education

Communications

Home Affairs and Environment

2. The Committee has considered the Proposed Additional Expenditure and has received explanations from the Ministers and Officers representing the departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with

the Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1980-81 and the Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1980-81. Certain answers to questions which were deferred and subsequently given in writing since the Committee's hearing will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration:

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS Special Broadcasting Service- Division 487-1 Hansard, pp. 141-2,144 6

(a) Annual Reports: The Committee notes that at the time of preparation of this re­ port the annual report of the Special Broadcasting Service for the financial year 1979- 80 has not been presented to Parliament. The Committee further notes that the 1978 79 annual report was not tabled until 20 May 1980. Both delays are of concern to the Committee.

In August 1979, the Joint Committee on Publications reported on annual reports of Commonwealth departments and statutory authorities. The Joint Committee recom­ mended that annual reports made on a financial year basis should be available to the Parliament within three months of the end of the financial year. In the case of annual

reports made on a calendar year basis the Joint Committee recommended that the re­ ports should be available within three months of the end of the calendar year. The Joint Committee considered that these target dates were reasonable and had "the advantage of coinciding with significant times in the Parliamentary year’. In particular, the Joint

Committee noted that financial year reports would be available for Estimates hearings and calendar year reports would be available for Additional Estimates hearings.

The Committee endorses the sentiments expressed by the Joint Committee and re­ iterates the view of previous Estimates Committees that, w here the presentation of an annual report is delayed, arrangements should be made for an interim report and infor­ mal financial statements to be presented to Parliament, together with an explanation of

the reasons for the delay.

19

(a) (i) First Annual Report— Period 1 January 1978 to 30 June 1979 An additional matter of concern to the Committee was an apparent disregard by the Special Broadcasting Service of the reporting requirements of the Broadcasting and Television Act 1942.

Section 79Z (1) of the Act states: The Service shall, as soon as practicable after each 30 June, prepare and furnish to the Minister a report of its operations during the year ended on that date, together with finan­ cial statements in respect of that year in such form as the Minister for Finance approves. Section 79z (4) of the Act provides that:

The Minister shall cause— (a) copies of the report and financial statements of the Service furnished to him under sub-section (1), together with a copy of the report of the Auditor-General; and (b) copies of any report and financial statements furnished to him under sub-section (3), to be laid before each House of Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after having been received by the Minister.

The Committee notes the following dates in connection with the first Annual Re­ port of the Special Broadcasting Service which covered the period from 1 January 1978 to 30 June 1979 (i.e. 18 months): 31 October 1978—financial statements submitted to Auditor-General for audit

examination; 26 February 1979—financial statement for the period 1 January 1978 to 30 June 1978 certified by the Chairman, S.B.S.;

20 April 1979- - Auditor-General’s report on the above statement made; financial statement for the period 1 July 1978 to 30 June 1979 certified by the Chair­ man, S.B.S., undated; 30 April 1980 Auditor-General’s report on the above statement made; 20 May 1980 -first Annual Report of the Special Broadcasting Service presented to Parliament. The Committee asked witnesses why the report on the first six months to 30 June was delayed and subsequently presented jointly with the annual report for the period 1 July 1978 to 30 June 1979. In reply, witnesses advised that:

This was done by agreement with the Minister that it would be more practical and mean­ ingful to prepare a consolidated report . . . (Hansard, p. 141) With dispensation from the Minister we did not do so . . . (i.e. report separately for the period I January 1978 to 30 June 1978) (Hansard, p. 141) We took advice from the Minister . . . (Hansard, p. 141) . . . the first annual report by decision of the Minister was one which covered that first six monthly period or half year of a financial year period and then the full financial year 1978 79. (Hansard, p. 145) The Committee sought further explanation as to why the Special Broadcasting Ser­ vice did not comply with the reporting provisions of the Broadcasting and Television Act 1942. The considered response received in writing from the S.B.S. through the De­ partment of Communications is reported in full:

The Special Broadcasting Service has advised that it is not apparent why a report lor the period to 30 June 1978 was not submitted after the expiration of that period. It is believed this may have been due to the unsettled staffing and heavy work load during the initial for­ mation stages of the Special Broadcasting Service. S.B.S. records indicate that in August

1979 the matter was raised w'ith the Minister who agreed that, in view of the relatively brief period of activity to 30 June 1 978 it would be desirable to report on this period con­ currently with the report for the financial year 1978 79.

The Committee makes two comments. First, from the information available to the Committee, sufficient detail in the form of financial statements was available to support

20

the presentation of an interim report to Parliament either late in the Budget sittings of 1978 or at the first opportunity following the resumption of sittings in 1979. The second point, however, is of disturbing significance. It would appear that no interpretation of the requirements of the Act was sought by the S.B.S. or the Minister. Also, the matter was not raised with the Minister until August 1979. The Committee can only report that the requirement to report to Parliament ‘as soon as practicable after each 30 June' has been treated lightly by the Minister and the S.B.S.

Committee research has indicated that there are other examples where it would appear that other statutory requirements to report to Parliament have not been strictly adhered to. In the absence, under the Standing Orders, of power to investigate these matters further the Committee recommends that the First Annua! Report of the Special Broadcasting Service for the period 1 January 1978 to 30 June 1979 be referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations for examination and report.

The Committee further recommends that the Standing Committee examine and re­ port on similar instances where departments and authorities may have breached statu­ tory reporting requirements.

(a) (ii) Second Annual Report— Financial Year 1979-80 The Committee is also concerned with delays in the tabling of the Second Annual Report of the Special Broadcasting Service (1979 80). The Service’s financial state­ ments for 1979-80 were not submitted in final form to the Auditor-General until

1 December 1980, some six months after the end of the financial year. The Auditor- General's report on those statements was made on 16 January 1981. Bv 27 April 1981, the date of the Committee’s hearing, neither the audited statements nor the annual re­ port had been sent to the Minister for Communications (S. 79/ (1) of the Act).

The Committee is of the view that, following the late tabling of the first annual re­ port (some eleven and a half months after the close of the financial year), the Special Broadcasting Service should have taken steps to ensure the timely presentation of the second annual report. It would appear that this has not been the case. Accordingly, the Committee recommends that the Second Annual Report of the Special Broadcasting Service for the period 1 July 1979 to 30 June 1980 be referred to the Standing Com­

mittee on Finance and Government Operations for examination and report.

(a) (iii) Programming: A final matter of concern to the Committee about the Special Broadcasting Service is appropriations for ethnic radio and multicultural television. The Additional Estimates for both services are marked by large variations from the al­ locations provided in the Budget Estimates. The Committee can only interpret these variations as being the result of estimating deficiencies in the policy and planning areas. T he Committee notes that an estimating officer has recently been appointed to the Ser­

vice and trusts that this will go some way towards improving the situation.

(b) Australian Broadcasting Commission Division 482-1-01. Hansard, pp. 130 1. In October 1977 Estimates Committee C expressed concern about the lack of detail in explanatory information provided by the Australian Broadcasting Commission. Since that time Estimates Committees have commented favourably on the explanatory

notes prepared by the Commission for the main Budget Estimates. However. Estimates Committee B must express dissatisfaction with the explanatory notes provided for the Additional Estimates. The notes did not meet the conditions specified by the relevant Department of Finance Circular, which has been prepared at the request of Estimates

Committees to guide departments on the requirements of the Committees. In addition.

21

no breakdown of expenses was provided by the ABC. This lack of information ham­ pered the Committee’s examination of the appropriations for the ABC. The Committee expects the inclusion of appropriate details in the explanatory notes for both the Budget Estimates and the Additional Estimates.

DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT (a) Administrative arrangements~OW\s\on 330-1, Hansard B, pp. 97-104, 153 4, Hansard F, pp. 390-9. On 3 November 1980 the Environment Division of the Department of Science and Environment was transferred to the Department of Home Affairs.

The Committee was interested to know the effects of the transfer, but as no ad­ ditional funds were required for environmental matters, no details were provided in the Explanatory Notes. It was explained to the Committee that sufficient funds to support the Environment Division of the Department had been transferred from its old Department to its new Department of Home Affairs and Environment. The Committee sought explanation on the full costs involved in the transfer, on savings made by the former Department, and generally on overall administrative rearrangements.

The information was eventually supplied to the Committee either in evidence or by written reply. However, the complete picture on the transfer could only be achieved by extensive questioning by two Estimates Committees of officers from the Departments of Home Affairs and Environment, Finance, and Science and Technology. The Com­ mittee submits that this process should not have been necessary.

In 1975 Estimates Committee B drew attention to this problem: ‘Concern was expressed that where Departments had changed functions during the year under new administrative arrangements, the Committee was not provided with the necessary information to consider the expenditure on that particular function for the year ... It would assist Committees in their consideration of this type of expenditure if arrange­ ments could be made between Departments to provide complete information to each of the Committees that are investigating provision for such expenditure.’ The Committee supports the sentiments expressed in 1975 and again draws them to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

(b) Financial assistance towards exhibition tour of the United States of America by the speedboat Spirit o f Australia-- Division 330-3-16. Hansard, pp. 113-118. The Committee was advised that in December 1979 the Government agreed to provide financial assistance of up to $200 000 for two tours of the United States by the owner and the speedboat. An amount of $100 000 was advanced to this person in 1979 80. A

further $93 000 has been sought in the Additional Estimates for 1980 81 the balance of $7000 being provided by private, non-government sources. The Committee was concerned to note that the $93 000 being sought through the Additional Estimates was committed without an evaluation being undertaken of the original appropriation of $100 000. It was explained that ‘there was not an evaluation as to whether this venture was successful because the second part of the tour is part of the total tour.' When there were two separate tours involved, the Committee finds this explanation to be unsatisfactory and would have expected some examination of the re­ sults to have taken place to ensure that the further commitment of $93 000 was put to the most effective use.

Of further concern to the Committee was the fact that the owner had not provided to the Department appropriate documentation in support of the expenses incurred on the tour which took place in 1980. The terms of the agreement between the Common­ wealth and the owner stated:

22

‘This grant is made subject to the requirements of the Audit Act and Finance Regulations. Specifically it is subject to the condition that evidence be provided to show that the grant has been spent for the purposes for which it is made.'

The Committee was disturbed to note that, although the Department had sought this information, it still had not been submitted prior to commitment of the $93 000. In evidence given before the Committee an officer informed the Committee after repeated questioning on the matter: ‘We will be requesting [the owner to again] document how

he has spent the expenses that were incurred.’ Clearly, the conditions of the contract have not been complied with in terms of the Audit Act and Finance Regulations. The Committee is deeply concerned with the information it has received concerning the tours. As a further example, it quotes the following extract from the accountant's compilation report provided by John F. Forbes & Co. of Los Angeles, California:

Mr Warby has elected to omit substantially all of the disclosures required by generally ac­ cepted accounting principles. If the omitted disclosures were included in the statement of cash disbursements, they might influence the user's conclusions about the projects dis­

bursements. Accordingly, this statement of cash disbursements is not designed for those who are not informed about such matters.

The Committee recommends that the matter of financial assistance for the exhi­ bition tour of the United States of America by the speedboat Spirit o f Australia be re­ ferred to the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations for exam­ ination and report.

GENERAL (a) Advance to the Minister for Finance The use of the Advance to the Minister for Finance has been of continuing concern to Estimates Committees. In June 1978, as a result of a recommendation from Esti­ mates Committee A, the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations was charged with the investigation of ‘the use made of funds approved by Parliament for the Advance to the Minister for Finance’. The Standing Committee reported in August 1979, recommending, inter alia, that: ‘Expenditure from the Advance, in ad­ dition to items already appropriated for or for new items, be permitted only in ‘urgent and unforeseen’ circumstances.’

In its examination of expenditure from the Advance, Estimates Committee B re­ peatedly asked witnesses whether expenditure met the criteria of ‘urgent and unfore­ seen’. The Committee was not satisfied by evidence tendered in respect of the follow ing item:

Department o f Home Affairs and Environment Division 330-3-17-Southern Cross Replica Museum Trust (information required. Hansard, pp. 118 120) An advance of $50 000 for this item was obtained by the Department of Home Affairs and Environment. However, in evidence, the Committee was told by a departmental witness that only $15 000 had been required urgently. The Committee sought an expla­

nation from the Department of Finance as to why an advance of $50 000 was provided when only $15 000 was requested urgently. In its reply the Department of Finance advised: ‘Contrary to the advice given by the Departmental witness to the Committee, the Department of Finance was not told that only $1 5 000 of the grant was required

immediately.’ From the evidence given before the Committee and subsequent information received in writing, the Committee concludes that the Department of Home Affairs

23

and Environment had not satisfied itself that all of the $50 000 sought from the Ad­ vance met the requirement of ‘urgent and unforeseen’, and, similarly, that all of this money would be required before the passage of Appropriation Bill (No. 3). The Com­ mittee is satisfied that the request for the Advance would not have been approved in toto had the Department of Finance been aware of the full circumstances. The Com­ mittee believes that the Department of Finance should take greater care to ensure that in future similar requests meet the necessary criteria.

(b) Evidence given to the Committee The Committee is disturbed to note the following examples of misleading or contra­ dictory evidence presented to it during its hearing. A recommendation relating to the following instances is made at the conclusion of this section of the report.

Division 330-3-17-Southern Cross Replica Museum Trust (Hansard, pp. 118-120 (see reference above)) Division 330-3-14-Observance of Australia Day (Hansard, pp. 109-110, p. 128) An amount of $36 000 was requested by the Department of Home Affairs and Environment as part of the costs of staging an Australia Day concert. The Depart­ ment’s explanatory notes state ‘initial advice from the ABC was that the [Australia

Day] Committee would not be required to contribute to the cost of the concert and ac­ cordingly no provision was made in the 1980 81 estimate. However, following a close examination of the concert’s costs, the Committee was informed that some contribution would be required for the concert to proceed’. The Committee was confused by the evi­ dence presented on this matter. Witnesses from the Department of Home Affairs and

Environment endorsed the statement that the ABC would not require funds to support the concert. Witnesses were uncertain, however, as to why this situation had changed, and, further, were unable to say how the money was expended. The Committee raised the matter again during its consideration of the Additional Estimates for the ABC under the Estimates for the Department of Communications. Witnesses from the ABC contradicted the explanations given by witnesses from the De­ partment of Home Affairs and Environment. In particular, the Committee was told that the ABC had never undertaken to meet the costs of the concert. The ABC’s evi­ dence was subsequently supported in further information given to the Committee by the Department of Home Affairs and Environment and the ABC.

Division 868 Other services 0.15 International standard sport facilities The explanatory notes stated ‘An amount of $1 000 000 will be allocated in 1980-81 for the following projects’. The notes then went on to list five individual proj­ ects to which money would be allocated.

In evidence it was revealed that ‘It may be that the $1 m goes to two or three of those facilities in the first instance and not to all of them. Given that the $lm is part of a total $25m appropriation, the position will level itself out . . . It says “for the follow­ ing projects’’. It does not say for all the following projects'. (Hansard, p. 165)

When the explanatory notes do not indicate any qualification to a statement, the Committee can only take such a statement at face value. To the Committee, the state­ ments in evidence simply play with words and indicate that the explanatory notes had the effect of misleading the Committee and the Parliament. The fact is that, to deter­ mine the true situation as distinct from that explained in the explanatory notes, the Committee had to ask questions and seek additional information. The Committee con­ tends that the true position should have been reflected in the explanatory notes.

The Committee recommends that a meeting of Estimates Committees Chairmen he convened to consider the apparent misleading and contradictory evidence presented to the Committee and that Estimates Committees Chairmen report to the Senate on their findings.

24

4. The Committee thanks the Ministers and departmental officers concerned for expla­ nations provided during the Committee’s examination of the Estimates, and for the sub­ stantial information provided by departments subsequent to the hearings. It also records its appreciation to those officers who at short notice were required to travel

interstate to attend the hearings.

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

25

Estimates Committee B Minutes of Proceedings

TUESDAY 7 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.45 p.m. 2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 2 April 1981 recording the change in the Committee’s membership was reported.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for Chair­ man. Senator Puplick nominated Senator Martin. There being no further nominations, Senator Martin thereupon took the Chair. 4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81:

REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals of the Senate of 2 April 1981 referring to Particulars of Proposed Ad­ ditional Expenditure 1980-81 for the following departments:

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 26 270-284 Education ............................................. 20 188 000

B 6 841-843 Education ............................................ 1013 000

A 20 480 487 C o m m u n ic a tio n s ................................... 11 227 000

B 6 901 C o m m u n i c a t i o n s ......... 2 600 000

A 38 330-560 Home Affairs and Environment . . . 2 666 000

B 8 866-868 Home Affairs and Environment . . . 1 811000

* Document A * Document B ‘Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June

1981'.

5. ORDER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to consider the departments in the following order: Communications Education

Home Affairs and Environment 6. OTHER BUSINESS: The Committee discussed a number of matters relating to the Committee’s examination of the Additional Estimates. 7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.55 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: Senator Martin (Chairman) and Senators Hearn and Puplick.

29

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

MONDAY 27 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.30 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Martin) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory state­ ment.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81—DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the fol­ lowing officers:

Department o f Education— Mr D. M. Morrison, Deputy Secretary Mr R. N. Allen, Acting Director, Office of Australian Capital Territory Further Education Mr G. Franklin, Acting Assistant Secretary, School and Aboriginal Students As­

sistance Branch Mr P. B. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr W. Bowron, Director, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch Mr R. Moss, Director, School and Aboriginal Students Assistance Branch

Mr J. Morey, Director, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr J. Burnett, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Miss J. Miller, Assistant Secretary, International Education Branch Mr J. Shipway, Senior Adviser, ADP Mr Μ. B. Brassington, Director of Finance, Departmental Services Branch Mr D. Fowler, Director, Language Teaching Branch Mr B. Morey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Tertiary Education Commission

Mr R. Walker, Director, Management Services Schools Commission Mr I. Hossack, Secretary Mr D. Marsh, Director, Management Services Commonwealth Teaching Service

Mr K. Glover, Acting Secretary Australian Capital Territory Schools Authority Mr R. P. Sadler, Acting Chief Education Officer Mr B. J. Hutchinson, Director, Resources Branch Australian National University—

Mr E. R. Boardman, Bursar

30

Department o f Finance— Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 270-284- Department of Education (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Education subject to an undertaking by the Minis­ ter to provide additional information to the Committee.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81— DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT: Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy and Senator the Honourable P. E. Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Home Affairs and Environment— Mr A. W. McCasker, First Assistant Secretary, Territories Division Co-ordination and Management Branch- Mr B. W. Palmer, Assistant Secretary

Mr T. F. Fowler, Acting Director, Finance and Services Section, Management Services Branch Mr J. C. Logue, Acting Director, Personnel and Establishments Section, Man­ agement Services Branch

Mr B. Zanetti, Finance Officer Environment Division— Mr K. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary

Mr E. Anderson, Assistant Secretary Culture, Sport and Recreation Division-Mr T. F. Paterson, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. McArthur, Assistant Secretary, Heritage Branch

Mr P. Brettell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Sport and Recreation Branch Mr J. Davies, Cultural Affairs Branch Territories Division Mr K. P. Cooper, Assistant Secretary, Indian Ocean Territories Branch

Mr Η. T. Plant, Assistant Secretary, Other Territories Branch Bicentennial and Special Events Division Mr E. Wigley, First Assistant Secretary Australian Archives

Prof. R. G. Neale, Director-General Mr M. J. Creep, Executive Officer Australian War Memorial — Mr N. J. Flanagan, Director

Mr M. D. G. Coley, Assistant Director, Administration and Technical Services Dr A. Bos, Head, Conservation Australian Film and Television School Ms G. M. Carnegie, Head , Administration and Services

Australian Film Commission Mr B. Gittings, Secretary Mr N. Malaxos, Acting Executive Officer

31

National Library of Australia— Mr G. E. Clark, Acting Assistant Director-General Australian National Gallery— Mr B. Kelson, Secretary/Manager

Mr G. Andrews, Chief Finance Officer Museum of Australia— Mr P. M, Ryan, Acting Executive Secretary, Secretariat to the Museum of Australia Australian Heritage Commission—«

Mr D. C. Griffith, Acting Director Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service— Mr T. Richmond, Assistant Director, Park Planning and Management Branch Mr J. E. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer, Directorate Branch

Department o f Finance— Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 330 and 340-342—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document A) Further consideration of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment’s Proposed Additional Estimates was postponed until after consideration of the Depart­ ment of Communications’ Proposed Additional Estimates.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81—DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS: Appearing: Senator the Honourable P, E. Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Department o f Communications— Mr E. Payne, Deputy Secretary Mr R. Ramsay, First Secretary, Radio Frequency Management Division Mr A. Guster, First Assistant Secretary, Satellite Policy and Co-ordination

Division Mr B. Harvey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Development Division Mr J. Coleman, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Policy Division Mr P. Westerway, First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Planning and Oper­

ations Division Mr R. Smith, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr B. Foster, Acting Director, Finance and Supply Mr P. Freeman, Acting Senior Finance Officer Australian Broadcasting Commission Committee of Review

Mr D. Wallace, Assistant Secretary Australian Broadcasting Commission Mr J. Fitzmaurice, Acting General Manager (Television) Mr K. Mackreill, Assistant General Manager (Radio)

Mr K. Jennings, Assistant General Manager (Mangagement Services) Mr W. Funnell, Controller of Finance Mr A. Coulter, Federal Budget Officer Mr F. Shepher, Acting Controller of Engineering

32

Australian Broadcasting Tribunal— Mr B. J. Connelly, Secretary Mr G. P. Dwyer, Director Public Inquiries

Special Broadcasting Service— Mr R. Fowell, Executive Director Mr R. Stokes, Head of Secretariat Mr M. Britten, Acting Director of Finance

Mr D. Forsyth, Estimates Officer Mr J. Bigeni, Acting Station Controller Ms M. Manzoufas, Acting Director Program Preparations Department o f Finance—

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 482-487—Department of Communications (Document A)

Division 901—Department of Communications (Document B) Further consideration of the Department of Communications’ Proposed Additional Es­ timates was postponed until after the further consideration of Department of Home Affairs and Environment’s Proposed Additional Estimates.

6. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT: The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 330, 332—336, 3 4 4-560- Department of Home Affairs and

Environment Division 868— Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Home Affairs and Environment subject to an undertaking by the

Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

7. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS: the Chairman called on the following Division for consideration-480—Department of Communications (Document A). The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Communications subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.44 p.m.

9. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 10.44 p.m.

10. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.00 p.m.

11. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator K. J. Martin (Chairman), Senator J. N. Button, Senator G. S. Davidson. Senator J. \1. Hearn, Senator C. J. G. Puplick and Senator S. M. Ryan. Senator J. A. Mulvihill was also in attendance.

K. J. M A R T I N

Chairman

33

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 3

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 10.10a.m.

2. MINUTES: On the motion of Senator Puplick, the Minutes of the Meetings of 7 and 27 April 1981 were confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT REPORT: The Committee considered and amended the draft report.

The Committee agreed to delay further consideration of the report until after receipt of further written replies from Departments.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.26 p.m. until 12.30 p.m. on Tuesday 12 May 1981.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator K. J. Martin (Chairman), Senator J. N. Button, Senator J. M. Hearn and Senator C. J. G. Puplick.

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

34

TUESDAY 12 MAY 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 12.30 p.m.

2. MINUTES: On the motion of Senator Puplick, seconded Senator Hearn, the minutes of the meeting of 7 May were confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT REPORT: The Committee considered the amended draft report. The Committee agreed to the report subject to further amendments.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.00 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator K. J. Martin (Chairman), Senator J. N. Button, Senator G. S. Davidson, Senator J. M. Hearn and Senator C. J. G. Puplick.

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 4

K. J. MARTIN Chairman

35

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the additional estimates for the year 1980-81 relating to the following departments:

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Department of the Treasury Department of Finance Department of Administrative Services

2. The Committee has considered these estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, and officers of the departments. A copy of the Committee's minutes of proceedings and Hansard re­ ports of the evidence taken by the Committee are presented for the information of the

Senate.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters:

(i) The evidence showed that in the departments and authorities examined by the Committee the average increase in the salaries votes is 17.5 per cent and the av­ erage increase in overtime votes is 12.3 per cent (these figures exclude authori­ ties, such as the Australian Federal Police, whose estimates are influenced by

transfers of votes or other special factors). The Committee was told that these increases are caused by the full-year effect of increases in salaries granted dur­ ing the last financial year, as well as increases granted during this financial year. The figures nevertheless disclose that there has been a considerable increase in

the wages bill in the public sector.

(ii) The votes for most departments and authorities disclose large increases in the costs of telephone calls. The evidence showed that these increased costs were due to increased usage. Precautions have been taken against unauthorised and improper use of telephones. There is a need for all departments to monitor

their use of telephones, and this monitoring would be greatly facilitated by the provision by the Telecommunications Commission of meters for telephones, as a check on the use made of telephones and an indication to officers as to how long they are taking on their calls.

(iii) The additional estimate for computer services for the Australian Taxation Office is increased by $302 000 because of an oversight in the original estimate. It is depressing that even the financial authorities of the Commonwealth are not free of this sort of error.

(iv) The Department of Administrative Services advised that airline tickets which are issued on Commonwealth warrants are paid for on issue regardless of whether the tickets are used. The evidence showed that the airlines estimate that the value of these unused tickets may amount to SI00 000 at present

(Hansard, 27 April 1981, p.242). The airlines have apparently insisted that there is no way of checking whether a ticket is used. The Committee considers.

39

however, that it should be possible to devise some system of simple documen­ tation, associated with Commonwealth warrants, whereby the Commonwealth pays for only those tickets which are used. (v) As a result of a direction by the Government, the Australian Government

Publishing Service is required to print on the covers of certain reports a rep­ resentation in colour of the Australian flag. This requires colour printing on publications which would not otherwise require any colour printing. The estimated average cost of this direction is $70 per publication (Hansard, 27 April 1981, p. 222). The Committee requests that the Minister for Adminis­ trative Services investigate the actual cost and report to the Committee.

4. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Ministers and the officers.

7 May 1981

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

40

Estimates Committee C Minutes of Proceedings

■

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 1

THURSDAY 9 APRIL 1981

1. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in private session at 1.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 4. The Secretary drew attention to the record, in the Journals of the Senate of 26 November 1980 and 2 April 1981, of the appointment of the Committee, the reference of estimates of additional expenditure to the Committee and the alteration of the membership of the Committee.

2. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: On the motion of Senator Martyr. Senator Lewis was elected Chairman and took the Chair.

3. CONSIDERATION OF ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES: It was agreed that the Committee consider the additional estimates referred to the Committee in the follow­ ing order: Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

Department of the Treasury Department of Finance Department of Administrative Services The Chairman indicated that if members, after examining the explanatory notes submitted by the departments, required any particular research to be done by Com­ mittee officers, or required departments to be advised of particular subjects on which they propose to ask questions, they should advise the Secretary accordingly. The Chair­ man also indicated that notes on the additional estimates of the departments would be forwarded to members by the Secretary during the Easter recess.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee attended the meeting: Senators Bjelke-Petersen, Gietzelt, Lewis, McLaren and Martyr.

THE SENATE

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

43

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 2

MONDAY 27 APRIL 1981

1. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 10.30 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 6. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.

2. ATTENDANCE OF MEMBERS: The Chairman, Senator McLaren, Senator Gietzelt and Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, made statements relating to communications with members of the Committee concerning the meeting and the attendance of members.

3. DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET: Appearing: Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Department o f the Prime Minister and Cabinet—

Mr L. R. Pyke, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr A. J. Mann, Acting Assistant Secretary, Services Branch Mr A. L. McNamara, Finance Officer Mr K. Hutchings, Assistant Head, Commonwealth Heads of Government

Meeting Task Force Mr M. J. Murray, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning, Air Force, Depart­ ment of Defence Group Captain C. Ackland, Director, Operations, Air Force, Department of

Defence

Australian Science and Technology Council Dr B. S. Middleton, Acting Secretary Dr P. C. Price, Principal Project Officer Auditor-General’s Office

Mr A. A. Taylor, First Assistant Auditor-General, Division C Mr J. L. Trigg, Assistant Auditor-General, Policy Planning and Management Mr B. Farrow, Director, Management Section Mr F. P. Campbell, Executive Officer, Finance and Accounts Public Service Board

Mr N. T. Kenway, Acting Secretary Mr B. T. Falconer, Director, Mandata Program Office Mr N. J. Quinn, Assistant Commissioner, Staff Development Branch Mr I. T. Allen, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch Mr R. M. Wedgwood, Director, Finance and Services Mr R. C. Harris, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts Department o f Finance—

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer

The following particulars of proposed additional expenditure were called upon b> the Chairman and considered:

THE SENATE

44

s

Document A*: Division 500—Administrative ................................................ 599 400

Division 504- Conveyance of Governor-General etc. . . . 133 000 Division 505- Official estab lish m en ts...................................... 27 000

Division 506—Governor-General’s Office ............................ 20 000

Division 513—Australian Science and Technology Council . . 22 000 Division 515—Auditor-General’s O f f i c e ................................. 1 145 200

Division 516—Public Service Board ...................................... 1 137 400

Document B*: Division 911—Capital works and services ............................ 742 000

* Document Λ: Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1981 * Document B: Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in respect of the year ending on 30 June 1981

Consideration of these particulars of proposed expenditure was concluded.

4. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY: Appearing: Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, and Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minis­ ter for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Mr S. S. McBurney, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Resource Allocation and

Development Division Mr K. W. Popple, Assistant Secretary, Revenue Loans and Investments Division Mr E. A. Evans, Assistant Secretary, General Financial and Economic Policy

Division MR R. Q. Freney, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. L. Jobling, Director, Finance and General Section Mr D. W. Holmesby, Finance Officer, Finance and General Section Mr L. T. Rowlands, Executive Assistant, Australian Financial System Inquiry

Mr W. T. Chapman, Executive Officer, Australian Financial System Inquire

Australian Bureau of Statistics Mr W. McLennan. First Assistant Statistician. Co-ordination and Management Division Mr K. S. Watson, Assistant Statistician. Population Census Branch

Mr B. Doyle, Director, Evaluation and User Service Section Mr B. H. Crook, Assistant Statistician, Operations and Software Branch Mr J. W. Manrer, Acting Assistant Statistician, Management Services Branch Mr J. E. Mackay, Acting Director, Finance and General Services Section

Australian Taxation Office Mr J. J. Daly, Assistant Commissioner, Management Resources and Develop­ ment Mr G. L. Ward, Executive Officer, General Legislation Branch

Mr P. J. McCann, Finance Officer, Management Resources and Development

Department of Finance Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer The following particulars of proposed additional expenditure were called upon b> the Chairman and considered:

$

Document A: Division 670—Administrative ................................................ 507 800

Division 674--Taxation Boards of Review ............................. 17 200

Division 677—Australian Taxation Office ............................. 12 014 000

Division 678—Australian Bureau of Statistics ........................ 4 048 000

Document B: Division 962—Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory .............................................................................. 5 545 000

Division 968- Bureau of S t a t i s t i c s ........................................... 202 000

Division 969—Other Services ................................................ 85 000

Consideration of these particulars of proposed expenditure was concluded.

5. DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE: Appearing: Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers: Mr G. Wauchop, Director, Personnel and Establishments Section Mr A. D. Preston-Stanley, Director, Finance and General Section

Mr N. P. McKenna, Director, ADP Operations Mr G. R. Potts, Assistant Secretary, Development Branch Mr T. H. Kanaley, Chief Finance Officer, Development Branch Mr P. L. Lidbetter, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch Mr A. Forner, Director, Accounting Office Mr O. J. Hilhorst, Senior Finance Officer, Rural and Commerce Branch Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office —

Mr R. D. McKillop, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administration Mr R. R. Jackson, Acting Director, Services Office of the Superannuation Fund Investment Trust— Mr W. Gynn, Secretary, Superannuation Fund Investment Trust The following particulars of proposed additional expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

$

Document A: Division 304 Administrative ................................................ I 162 700

Division 306—Goverment Retirement Benefits Office . . . 453 600 Division 308 Superannuation Fund Investment Trust . . . 103 700 Document B: Division 852- Payments to or for the States and the Northern

Territory ............................................................................. 53 782 000

Consideration of these particulars of proposed expenditure was concluded.

6. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following de­ partmental officers: Mr Η. B. MacDonald, Deputy Secretary

Management Services Division Mr D. R. White, First Assistant Secretary Mr S. Wenger, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch Mr I. D. Gillespie, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section.

Finance and General Services Branch

46

Secretariat and Policy Division— Mr D. M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary Miss Μ. P. Lance, Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial Services Branch

Mr A. P. Butler, Assistant Secretary, Grants, Authorities and General Branch Mr V. K. Peak, Principal Executive Officer, Transitory Accommodation Sec­ tion, Policy and Executive Projects Branch

Honours Secretariat— Mr Η. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary

Australian Survey Office— Mr W. D. Kennedy, Surveyor-General Mr P. Morecomb, Finance Officer

Property Directorate— Mr P. J. Galvin, Director of Property Mr J. H. MacDonnell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operations Control Branch Mr R. D. Stevens, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Accommodation Oper­

ations Section Mr A. L. Fogg, Senior Assistant Secretary, Overseas Property Office Mr J. Jones, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Overseas Property Office

Transport and Storage Division— Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr D. Dahlberg, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Systems Branch

information Services Division -Mr P. A. Nott, First Assistant Secretary Mr P. Westaway, Assistant Secretary, Australian Government Publishing Ser­ vice Branch

Purchasing Division Mr G. A. Low, First Assistant Secretary Mr P. G. Woodham, Principal Executive Officer, Operations Management Branch

Protective Services Co-ordination Centre T. H. Mooney, Assistant Secretary, Policy and Planning Branch

Public Order and Police Affairs Division Mr G. V. Halliday, First Assistant Secretary

Australian Federal Police Mr A. J. Watt, Assistant Commissioner (Operations) Mr W. J. Ireland, Acting Executive Officer

Commonwealth Grants Commission Mr A. A. Glasson, Secretary

Australian Electoral Office Mr H. R. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr D. P. Reynolds, Director, Management Services Commonwealth Accommodation & Catering Services Ltd

Mr J. G. MacFarland. Acting General Manager

47

Department ofFinance-Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer Mr I. K. Butt, Finance Officer The following particulars of proposed additional expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:

$

Document A: Division 130—Administrative ................................................ 12 347 900

Division 132—Remuneration Tribunal .................................. 52 000

Division 138—Federal Police ................................................ 5 697 600

Division 139—Bureau of Criminal In te llig e n c e ........................ 110 800

Division 140—Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Services 2 836 600 Division 150—Furniture and fittings ....................................... 234 000

Division 155—Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services .......................................................... 1 469 000

Division 160—Grants C om m ission........................................... 132 100

Division 161—Australian Electoral Office ............................. 1826 000

Document B: Division 817—Capital works and services ............................. 863 500

Division 819—Other services ................................................ 972 500

Consideration of these particulars of proposed expenditure was concluded.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.32 p.m.

8. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended.

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

48

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C

M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

No. 3

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

1. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in private session at 10.00 a.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 6

2. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Chairman drew attention to a draft report to the Senate on additional estimates referred to the Committee. The draft report was amended. It was agreed that the report, as amended, be adopted as the report of the

Committee and be presented to the Senate.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30a.m.

4. ATTENDANCE: Present: all members of the Committee.

AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman

49

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D REPORT TO THE SENATE

■

■

SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

MEMBERS

Senator Kilgariff ( Chairman) Senator Collard Senator McIntosh Senator Mulvihill Senator Sibraa Senator Watson

SECRETARY: Mr J. Vander Wyk

(Telephone 72 6014)

Departmental estimates to be examined

Division

Document* * Page No. Department Amount

A A B A

B

22 34 8

43 10

230-242 Defence . .

315-318 Foreign Affairs

S

145 1 10 000 16 384 000

856 Foreign Affairs . . . .

360-364 Immigration and Ethnic Affairs 876 878 Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

71 5 000 6 969 000 1 098 000

* Document A ‘Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 198 Γ * Document B 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981'.

53

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981, the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for the year 1980 81 relating to the following departments:

Defence

Foreign Affairs

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs

2. The Committee considered the Additional Estimates and received explanations from the Minister for Finance (Senator Dame Margaret Guilfoyle) and officers of the various departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in con­ nection with consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1980 81 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1980-81.

3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates.

(1) Reports o f the A uditor-General The Auditor-General, in his report of 30 March 1981, made a number of serious criti­ cisms of the Department of Foreign Affairs in relation to standards of accounting and financial administration at five African posts. Among conclusions drawn by the Auditor-General were the following:

The number of accounting and financial irregularities observed in relation to the close of the financial year is disturbing and appears to evidence a general problem in the Department's financial administration. In view of the number of instances discovered by Audit at the aforementioned posts it is difficult to reach any conclusion but that breaches of the Audit Act, Finance (Overseas)

Regulations and Directions were deliberate. I am concerned that this reveals either a lack of administrative control or a serious deficiency in staff training or both.

These are serious comments to make in relation to a department and the Committee followed them up with the Department of Foreign Affairs during its hearing on 30 April. The Committee was somewhat surprised to learn at this hearing that the Depart­ ment had not been given the opportunity to comment on the Auditor-General's findings prior to their publication in his Report (Evidence, p. 279).

The Committee considers such a procedure should be automatic, particularly in cases where serious criticisms are made, to ensure that there are no inaccuracies or mis­ understandings and to test the validity of any criticisms made. The Chairman, on behalf of the Committee, has written to the Auditor-General asking what his policy is in relation to consultation with departments under examin­ ation prior to publication of a Report. Upon receipt of the Auditor-General's reply the Committee will further consider the matter.

54

(2) Applicability o f Department o f Finance procedures overseas Another matter which arose out of the Committee’s follow-up of the Auditor-General's Report concerned a problem faced by the Department of Foreign Affairs, in particular, at a number of overseas posts.

The matter concerns the difficulty of reconciling the specific and detailed require­ ments of the Department of Finance, written for Australian conditions, with the con­ ditions applying at some overseas posts, particularly insofar as local banking and cur­ rency laws are involved.

The Department of Foreign Affairs, in evidence to the Committee, claimed that a number of the comments made by the Auditor-General did not take into account local law or local conditions. Overseas posts were obliged to follow local law in matters such as banking procedures, and in the case of Nairobi, for example, local banking require­

ments did not allow for the crediting of cash receipts to an official bank account. The Committee was told by the Department that steps had been taken recently to establish a joint management review with representation from the Department of Finance to consider accounting matters in relation to overseas posts. In view of the

Auditor-General’s experience in auditing such posts the Committee considers there would be merit in his being consulted by the joint management review in the course of its deliberations. The Committee has written to the Auditor-General seeking his views on the issue and will consider the matter further during its deliberations on the main ap­ propriations in the Budget sittings.

(3) Accrual accounting In considering the additional appropriations sought by the Department of Defence the following general question was posed to officers of that Department:

How can you demonstrate to the Committee that in these proposed expenditures which are before us today value is obtained for the outlay listed? In other words, what are the tools and techniques that you apply in answering that question?

In the ensuing discussion the proposition was put to the Department that Parlia­ mentary scrutiny of appropriations bids would be assisted by an accrual accounting presentation as well as the more traditional cash accounting presentation. The relevant accrual figures could be presented in columnar form within the present format to relate them to the cash figures. The suggestion was made that the Department of Defence could be a suitable department for such a presentation on a trial basis.

In accrual accounting, common in business enterprises, revenues and expenses are identified with specific periods of time (e.g. a year) and are recorded as incurred, with­ out regard to the date of receipt or payment of cash. While there has long been debate as to whether accrual accounting can be applied across the whole range of government activity, its use in at least some areas could result in improved accountability and better

information. Accrual accounting is being utilised by a number of governments overseas, including the United States Government.

(4) Use o f Advance to Minister fo r Finance The explanatory notes for the Department of Foreign Affairs stated that an amount of $715 000 had been sought from the Advance to the Minister for Finance 'because it was necessary for the purchase of’ computer equipment for an automated communications printing and distribution system. An officer of the Department stated that the system would automatically print and distribute cablegrams with the aim of improved control, security and timeliness of distribution.

55

When asked why funds had been sought from the Advance rather than in the next occurring Appropriation Bill, an officer of the Department responded: ‘That was a government decision’ (Evidence, p.287). A letter from the Minister for Foreign Affairs stated that the system had been agreed to by Cabinet on 19 November 1980 ‘primarily

for security reasons’. The use of the Advance to the Minister for Finance is of concern to this Committee because it involves expenditure by the Government of moneys which have not been specifically appropriated for the purpose by the Parliament. The Committee does not dispute the need for some mechanism such as the Advance but considers that its use must be stringently controlled to minimise expenditure of moneys without prior and specific Parliamentary approval.

Finance Direction 29 limits the use of the Advance to ‘urgent or special circum­ stances’ (the Treasurer, in a letter to Estimates Committee A in 1978 used the phrase ‘urgent or unforseen needs’). The Committee considers that the use of the Advance to purchase a major item of computer equipment is not appropriate. It is one matter to go to the Advance to seek

funds if, for example, Parliament had previously approved the purchase but the moneys appropriated were inadequate because of exchange fluctuations; it is another matter to go to the Advance to fund a major new expenditure. It might be argued that the security reasons mentioned in the Cabinet decision could be interpreted to come within the

‘special circumstances’ criterion of Finance Direction 29, but against this must be balanced the principle of prior Parliamentary approval of government expenditure. The Committee remains to be convinced that the purchase of the equipment was so urgent—or unforseen that its purchase could not have waited until the next Appro­ priation Bill. The Department made no attempt, when asked, to justify any urgency in­ volved and the Committee does not consider the Department's response ‘That was a government decision’ -to be either adequate or satisfactory.

(5) Outstanding information The practice of allowing Ministers and departments to provide written answers sub­ sequent to a hearing, while it has the merit of enabling the provision of complete and ac­ curate information, has the drawback that often such information can not be followed

up or tested at a further hearing because of the short period of time available till the presentation of a Committee's report. This is particularly the case with the Additional Estimates. Estimates Committees operate within the framework of Standing Orders 36.ΛΒ, and the Resolution of appointment of Estimates Committees provides that the Estimates and Additional Estimates shall on motion be referred to the Committees for examin­ ation and report. This precludes Estimates Committees from having a continuing func­ tion throughout the year. This was noted by Estimates Committee A a year ago. Com­ mittee A said then:

The lack of a continuing role has become an increasingly significant limitation on the effec­ tiveness of the Committees... a change is necessary to permit Committees to have an ongo­ ing monitoring function and to enable appropriate full-time staffing arrangements to be made. Now that provision is being made for the full-time staffing of Estimates Committees at the research officer level, the Committee considers that the Senate should consider the present role of Estimates Committees with a view to their having a continuing func­ tion. Not only would this enable follow-up of the type referred to above but it would enable Estimates Committees to examine the Estimates of a particular department, or

particular items in those Estimates, in greater detail over a greater period of time. A

56

continuing role would also enable Estimates Committees to place greater emphasis on questions of efficiency and effectiveness in considering government expenditure.

(6) Department o f Defence— Civilian/military ratio Evidence was presented to the Committee that the civilian/military ratio in the Department of Defence was expected to be 423 civilians per 1000 servicemen by the end of this year (Evidence, p.260). This was down slightly from the 426:1000 of last

year. Somewhat to the Committee's surprise a witness from the Defence Department stated that he did not consider the trend downwards to be an improvement, and that in fact the Defence Force was not getting the civilian support it should have - because of the effects of staff ceilings—and that ‘some hundreds’ of uniformed, fully-trained ser­ vicemen were performing ‘essentially civilian tasks to the detriment of their military duties’.

The Committee is concerned if this is so. It trusts that the civilian /military ratio and the respective roles of each, will be fully explored in the major review of the Depart­ ment of Defence announced recently by the Prime Minister in his Review of Common­ wealth Functions.

(7) Late accounts In its examination of the Additional Estimates of the Department of Defence and De­ partment of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, the Committee noted two items involving the late issue of accounts.

The Department of Defence sought an additional appropriation of $20 000 for a Telecom account relating to 1977 but presented only this financial year (Explanatory Notes, p. 137), and the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs sought $25 000 for claims submitted this financial year by the Government Printer for work going back

to 1974 (Explanatory Notes, p.l 1). The Committee considers that the length of time the accounts have been outstand­ ing indicates inadequacies of financial control procedures in both Telecom and the Government Printer. It also considers that both the departments receiving the late accounts should have been aware of them being overdue and taken steps to see that accounts were issued so that payment could be made.

(8) Pilot departures from the RAAF The Committee sought information from the Department of Defence on the number of Boeing 707 pilots who have resigned from the RAAF's VIP Squadron to join civilian airlines both in Australia and overseas after completing expensive training.

The Committee learnt that although one 707 crew resigned last year (figures for res­ ignations and costs of training in the past two years are to be supplied by the Depart­ ment) the Department did not follow up exactly where pilots who had resigned went. Nor had there been a systematic survey of those leaving before reaching retiring age to determine why they were leaving, although the Department was in the process of

undertaking such a survey. The Committee considers such information would be useful to the Department in devising means of retaining such pilots to ensure that the RAAF at least gets value for its expenditure on training.

(9) Use o f RAAF aircraft during Q AN T AS dispute The Committee was unable to arrive at a figure for the total cost to the Government ol using RAAF aircraft to return to Australia passengers stranded in New Zealand during

57

the QANTAS flight stewards' dispute. The Department of Defence stated that the 'ad­ ditional cost’ to the RAAF was about $350 000 (Evidence, p. 266). Other departments or agencies which incurred costs included the Foreign Affairs and Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Departments.

The Committee requests the Government to table in the Senate, during debate on the Appropriation Bills Nos 3 and 4, a consolidated statement of the costs incurred by each government department and the amounts recouped, if any, from QANTAS and Air New Zealand to cover the value of unused tickets.

(10) Boeing 707 special purpose aircraft The Committee commends the Department of Defence for including in its explanatory notes a consolidated statement of costs associated with the Boeing 707 VIP Squadron, as at the Additional Estimates 1980-81. Where costs are spread over a number of items it has proved difficult to quantify total expenditure on a ‘program’. A summary state­ ment such as that in the Defence explanatory notes is of considerable value to an Esti­ mates Committee.

The Committee recommends the practice to all departments with programs whose costs are spread over a number of divisions.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the evidence given by the Minister for Finance and officers of the various departments whose Estimates the Committee considered.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

12 May 1981

58

Estimates Committee D Minutes of Proceedings

WEDNESDAY 8 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 1

1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met at 1.45 p.rn.

2. APPOINTMENT, REFERENCE OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE AND MEMBERSHIP OF ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: Resolutions of the Senate of 26 November 1980 and 2 April 1981 re­ lating to the appointment of Estimates Committee D, reference of Particulars of

Proposed Additional Expenditure 1980-81 and the membership of the Committee were reported.

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for the pos­ ition of Chairman. Senator Kilgariff, having been proposed by Senator Collard, seconded by Senator Mulvihill, was elected unopposed.

4. ADMINISTRATIVE ARRANGEMENTS: The Committee decided to examine the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure in the following order: Defence Foreign Affairs

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Discussions ensued on the approach the Committee would take towards question­ ing, the use the Committee would make of the research assistance, and future meetings of the Committee.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.55 p.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Collard, Kilgariff, Mulvihill and Watson (4).

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

61

THURSDAY 30 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.35 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Res­ olution of the Senate of 2 April 1981, the Committee would consider the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1981 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year

Ending on 30 June 1981, for the departments as follows:

Division

Document* * Page No. Department Amount

$

A 22 230-242 D efence............................................ 145 110 000

A 34 315-318 Foreign Affairs ............................... 16 384000

B 8 856 Foreign Affairs .............................. 715 000

A 43 360 364 Immigration and Ethnic Affairs . . . 6 969 000

B 10 876 878 Immigration and Ethnic Affairs . . . 1098 000

* Document A 'Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 ’. * Document B -‘Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981’.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Defence accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Defence— Group Captain C. L. Ackland, Director of Operations Air Force

Mr G. P. Anderson, Assistant Secretary, Defence Facilities Programme Management Captain A. L. Beaumont, Director of Naval Plans Dr Μ. E. C. Biffin, Superintendent, Science and Technology Programmes Air Vice Marshal E. M. Carroll, ChiefofSupply

Brigadier G. F. Cohen, Director-General Training and Education Policy Mr P. G. Collins, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Division Mr R. W. Corey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning Army Mr K. A. Goffey, Chief Executive Officer, Programming and Resource Analysis Colonel R. E. Hagerty, Director -Equipment, Materiel, Programming Stand­

ardization-Army Mr T. K. Hickman, Assistant Secretary, Civil Personnel

62

Mr D. A. Hont, Director, Finance and General Services Air Vice Marshal H. A. Hughes, Chief of Air Force Materiel Lieutenant Colonel A. G. Hutchinson, Staff Officer, Grade 1, Materiel Programming

Mr Μ. T. Hyland, First Assistant Secretary, Programmes and Budgets Mr Η. P. Jones, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology Administration Brigadier C. N. Khan, Deputy Chief of Army Reserves

Captain J. M. Kelly, Director of Joint Training and Logistics Mr A. F. Kent, Assistant Secretary, Project Planning and Evaluation (Defence Industry and Materiel Policy) Mr G. J. Lynch, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Budgets and Estimates Co­

Ordination and Review Mr R. D. Martin, Assistant Director, Natural Disasters Organisation (Policy and Support) Mr D. M. McAlister, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements

Mr L. A. McGee, Assistant Secretary, Quality Assurance and Engineering Re­ sources Policy Brigadier N. J. McGuire, Director-General, Movements and Transport Mr J. McMahon, Acting Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning -Navy

Mr M. J. Murray, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning-- Air Force Mr J. A. Nockels, Assistant Secretary, International Policy (PNG and Defence Co-operation Programmes) Mr J. S. O’Neill, Assistant Secretary, Budgets and Estimates (General and

Co-ordination) Air Commodore T. C. Owen, Director-General, Recruiting Mr M. F. Sage, Director of Switching Systems Planning (Defence Communi­

cations System) Mr W. F. Sheehan, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Procurement Progressing and Procedures Brigadier A. H. Smith, Director-General, Operations and Plans Army

Mr G. M. Taylor, Assistant Secretary, Industrial Development Captain M. J. Taylor, Director of Naval Operations Major-General W. J. Watson, Chairman -Services Health Policy Committee Commodore B. L. West, Deputy Chief of Naval Materiel

Department o f Finance— Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 230, 232 6, 238, 240-2- Department of Defence SI45 110 000

(Document A)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Defence, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:

63

Department o f Foreign Affairs— Mr R. J. Smith, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Foreign Service Division Mr C. R. Ashwin, First Assistant Secretary, International Organisations, Africa

and Middle East Division Mr B. D. B. Smith, Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr G. R. Barber, Assistant Secretary, Technical Services Branch Mr G. Cotsell, Assistant Secretary, Consular and Passports Branch Mr J. Linden, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch Mr J. V. Lovegrove, Director, Communications/Registry Section Mr E. Dobson, Director, ADP Section Mr O. Stuart, Transport Sub-section, Economic Policy Branch Mr D. P. Connors, Director, Personnel Policy Section Mr P. A. J. Fitzgerald, Director, Organisation and Resources Planning Section Mr J. E. Gibson, Director, Overseas and General Accounting Section Mr S. D. Brooks, Budget Officer, Overseas and General Accounting Section Mr R. Newton, Nuclear Policy and Disarmament Branch Australian Development Assistance Bureau-

Mr J. M. Powell, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Branch Mr J. R. M. Wolfe, Assistant Secretary, Program Planning and Review Branch Miss M. R. McGovern, Assistant Secretary, South East Asia Programs Branch Mr E. Ingevics, Assistant Secretary, International Organisations and Liaison

Branch Mr R. C. G. Martin, Executive Officer, Program Planning and Development Section Mr R. W. D. Harman, Head, Food Aid Unit Mr L. M. Engel, Head, Non-Government Organisations Sub-section Mr F. S. Wojtaszak, Finance Officer, Finance Section Mr M. Gaylard, Head, Indonesia Section Department of Foreign Affairs Department o f Finance—

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 315 18 Department of Foreign Affairs $16 384 000 (Document A) Division 856- Department of Foreign Affairs $715 000 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the fol­ lowing officers: Department o f Immigration and Ethnic Affairs—

Mr D. Volker, Deputy Secretary Mr D. Lander, First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr B. Machin, Senior Advisor, Ethnic Affairs Division Mr M. Roche, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Services Branch Mr I. Simington, Assistant Secretary, Refugees and International Branch Mr R. Ratnam, Acting Assistant Secretary, Citizenship Branch

64

Mr G. Feirclough, Acting Assistant Secretary, Programme Control and Devel­ opment Branch Mr D. Page, Director, Information Section Mr I. McNeil, Director, Financial Policy and Estimates Section Mr J. O’Connell, Senior Migration Officer, Transport Section Department o f Finance—

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 360, 364— Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs $6 969 000 (Document A)

Divisions 876, 878—Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs $1 098 000 (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.20 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Collard, Mulvihill, Sibraa and Watson (5). Senator Walsh was also in attendance.

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

65

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 10.05 a.m. The Chairman. (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of meetings held on 8 April and 30 April 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Re­ port to the Senate. Resolved—That the Report, as amended be adopted.

4. CORRESPONDENCE: The Committee considered the draft of a letter to the Auditor-General relating to matters arising from its hearings. Resolved— That the letter, as amended, be sent.

5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.19a.m.

6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator KilgarifT (Chairman), and Senators Collard, Sibraa and Watson (4).

B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman

66

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIM ATES COMMITTEE E

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimate Committee E has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for 1980 -81 relating to the following departments:

Department of National Development and Energy Department of Employment and Youth Affairs Department of Housing and Construction

2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and received explanations of them from the Minister for National Development and Energy, the Minister for Social Secur­ ity and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the infor­ mation of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1980 81 and Ap­ propriation Bill (No. 4) 1980-81.

3. Further written replies to questions are awaited and, on receipt, will be distributed to members of the Committee and will also be incorporated in the Committee Hansard.

4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates:

(a) Libraries The Committee considers that there is a need for significantly large and recurrent expenditures to be listed separately rather than as part of a conglomerate item. The need is apparent in the funding of the Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics library. Funds for libraries which play a significant role in areas of scientific research as well as normal libraries are not now separated from ‘office

requisites and equipment, stationery and printing’. The Committee therefore recommends that, in future, funds made available to libraries for the acquisition of books and periodicals should be provided for in a separ­ ate item.

(b) Explanatory notes and answers to questions The Departments of Employment and Youth Affairs and Housing and Con­ struction provided Explanatory Notes giving enough detail to obviate the need to seek clarification of many administrative arrangements. The Committee draws

attention to the improvement over the years of the Explanatorv Notes and the standard of answers provided by the officers.

(c) Purchase o f computer equipment 'surplus to requirements’ The Committee expressed serious concern at the purchase by the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs of 176 Visual Display Units (VDUs) it cannot use. (Document B. Division 847. Capital Works and Services. Subdivision 1. Plant

and Equipment, $393 200).

The Senate’s attention is drawn to pages 343 5 of the Hansard report of the evi­ dence in relation to this matter.

69

The purchase of this unnecessary equipment for the Statistical and Management In­ formation Network (SAMIN) occurred because of the inability of the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs and the Public Service Board to understand and tell each other of the respective requirements and capabilities of the SAMIN and Mandata systems. The purchase of these VDUs appears to have brought to light weaknesses in the process by which departments decide to go ahead with the use and purchase of com­ puter equipment.

Involved in various events leading to the purchase of these VDUs have been the De­ partments of Employment and Youth Affairs, Administrative Services, Finance and the Public Service Board. Over a number of years, Estimates Committees have been raising questions about the purchase and use of computers.

On 7 November 1979 Estimates Committee D reported to the Senate in the follow­ ing terms: Several Estimates Committees have made comments relating to the costs to the Common­ wealth of the purchase or use of computers by departments. In evidence before this Com­

mittee and other Estimates Committees reference has been made to the Inter­ Departmental Committee which scrutinises purchase and use of computers. A statement was supplied to this Committee on the Public Service Board’s review of computer use, and the Committee has also been supplied with figures for the expenditure on computer equipment and its installation. These papers are attached as an appendix to this report.

The Committee considers that the Government ought to report regularly to Parliament on the activities of the Inter-Departmental Committee and the Public Service Board in re­ lation to computers, and the report should include figures showing total Commonwealth expenditure on computers. On 10 October 1979, Estimates Committee D again referred to the use of, and expenditure on, computers as follows:

In its report in November 1978 the Committee referred to comments by several Estimates Committees on the large cost to the Commonwealth of the purchase and use of computers by departments. That report referred to the review by the Public Service Board and by an inter-departmental committee of departmental use of computers, and recommended that the Government report regularly to Parliament on the activities of those bodies in relation to computers and on the total expenditure on computers. The Public Accounts Com­ mittee is reviewing computer use, but the recommendation of this Committee does not seem to have been carried out. The Committee renews that recommendation. On 11 September 1980 Estimates Committee E also expressed reservations about expenditure on computers in its Report to the Senate.

This Committee is of the opinion that departments should be aware that Parliamen­ tary Committees only make observations and recommendations about such matters after careful consideration. This Committee is of the further opinion that if some of the observations of previous Committees on this matter had properly been taken note of and acted upon, better use of taxpayers’ money might have been possible in respect of

the purchase of VDUs for the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs. The Committee therefore invites an assurance from the Minister, during consider­ ation of the Bills in Committee of the Whole, that the Government will take appropri­ ate action to consider the relevant Parliamentary Committee recommendations on

these matters, and implement improved purchasing procedures for computer equipment.

(d) Supervision o f departmental staff During the hearings, the Committee sought information relating to the general supervision of staff.

70

Further questions were raised about the effects of staff ceilings on staff supervision, including the effects of attaining staff ceilings through ‘natural wastage’.

5. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance given by the Minister for National Development and Energy, the Minister for Social Security, the officers of the departments concerned and the Committee staff. The Committee draws particular attention to the value of the briefing material provided by the Committee staff.

D. B. SCOTT Chairman

71

Estimates Committee E Minutes of Proceedings

WEDNESDAY 8 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 6.00 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room No. 4.

2. APPOINTMENT AND CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF ESTIMATES COM­ MITTEES: The Secretary reported the Resolutions of Senate of 2 April 1981 relating to the appointment of two additional Estimates Committees, the appointment and change in membership of the Committees and the reference of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1981 to the Committees.

The membership of Estimates Committee E was now as follows: Senators Elstob, Robertson, Scott, Thomas, Wheeldon and Young.

The Committee was to consider the proposed additional expenditure in relation to the following departments:

National Development and Energy Employment and Youth Affairs Housing and Construction

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Scott was nominated by Senator Elstob, seconded by Senator Young. And there being no further nominations, Senator Scott thereupon took the Chair.

4. RESEARCH FOR COMMITTEE: The Chairman noted that Mr D. Brailey had been appointed as the Research Officer to the Committee. The Committee agreed that the Research Officer should provide each Senator with a file containing background

and suggested questions on each of the departments to be examined, as well as research specific matters as requested by Committee members.

5. TIME OF ESTIMATES COMMITTEES’ MEETING The Chairman noted the scheduled timetable of Estimates Committees. Discussion ensued on the scheduled starting time for the Committee.

6. CONTACT WITH DEPARTMENTS: The Committee agreed to a proposal b\ Senator Thomas that each department should be advised of areas of particular interest to the Committee so that the relevant staff of the department might attend.

7. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting adjourned at 6.10 p.m. till Thursday 30 April 1981, unless otherwise ordered.

75

8. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Elstob, Robertson, Scott, Thomas and Young (5).

D. B. SCOTT Chairman

76

THURSDAY 30 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.36 p.m. The Chairman (Senator the Honourable D. B. Scott) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory statement.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL. EXPENDITURE 1980 81 -DEPARTM ENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOP­ MENT AND ENERGY: Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick. Minister for National Development and Energy, and Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security,

accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f National Development and Energy— Mr D. J. Ives, Deputy Secretary Mr W. H. Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. McMahon, First Assistant Secretary, Energy Policy Division Mr G. C. Gorrie, Assistant Secretary, Energy Conservation Branch, Energy Pol­

icy Division Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water Division Mr J. Fielding, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Electricity Section, Energy Research and Development Division

Mr A. G. Bomford, Director, Division of National Mapping Mr T. C. Sargent, Senior Executive Officer, Division of National Mapping Dr A. R. Jensen, Acting Assistant Director (Operations), Bureau of Mineral Resources

Mr D. Crombie, Finance Officer, Bureau of Mineral Resources Australian Atomic Energy Commission DrG. L. Miles, Deputy Director (Operations) Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary Finance Pipeline Authority—

Mr T. R. Baker, Executive Member Mr F. Noble, Finance Manager Department o f Finance— Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 430 432, 436 Department of National Development and Energy (Document A) Divisions 891 893 Department of National Development and Energy (Docu­

ment B)

77

The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of National Development and Energy and made available a paper entitled ‘Department of National Development and Energy, Additional Estimates 1980-81, Supplementary Paper, Explanations for Sig­ nificant Under-expenditure’.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of National Development and Energy subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

4. CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND YOUTH AFFAIRS: Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, and Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Employment and Youth Affairs— Mr J. E. Cooley, General Manager, CES Programmes Division Mr G. E. Rees, First Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy & Programmes Division Mr P. E. F. Kirby, General Manager, CES Planning & ADP Division Mr B. MacDonald, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Division Mr A. G. Abrahart, Assistant Secretary, Youth Programmes Branch, Man­ power Policy & Programmes Division Mr C. M. McPherson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Manage­

ment Services Division Mr G. M. Lane, Senior Executive Officer, Finance Branch, Management Ser­ vices Division Department o f Finance—

Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Division 286, 288- Department of Employment & Youth Affairs (Document Λ) Divisions 847-849 Department of Employment & Youth AITairs (Document

B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Employment and Youth Affairs subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL E X P E N D I T U R E 1980-81 D E P A R T ME N T OF HOUS I NG AND CONSTRUCTION:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable J. L. Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, and Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Housing and Construction -

Mr K. J. Rodda, Deputy Secretary Mr Μ. B. Roger, Director, Housing Policy Mr J. H. Gunn, Assistant Secretary (Works) Mr J. N. Barrett, Senior Executive Officer (Finance)

78

Department o f Finance— Mr D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 350, 352, 353—Department of Housing and Construction (Document A) Divisions 871-873—Department of Housing and Construction (Document B) The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction.

The Committee concluded its consideration of the proposed additional expenditure for the Department of Housing and Construction subject to an undertaking by the Min­ ister to supply additional information.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.57 p.m. till a date and hour to be fixed.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Elstob, Robertson, Scott, Thomas and Young (5).

D. B. SCOTT Chairman

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.02 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Scott) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on 8 and 30 April 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Re­ port to the Senate. Discussion ensued.

Resolved: That the Report be adopted with amendments.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.14 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Elstob, Robertson, Scott, Thomas and Young (5).

D. B. SCOTT Chairman

80

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for 1980-81 relating to the following departments:

Science and Technology Capital Territory Transport

2. The Committee has considered the Additional Estimates, together with the Depart­ mental Explanatory Notes, and has received explanations from the Attorney-General (Senator Durack), the Minister for Social Security (Senator Chaney), the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator Baume) and officers of the departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Com­ mittee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation

Bill (No. 3) 1980-81 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1980-81.

3. Further written replies to questions are awaited and on receipt will be distributed to Members of the Committee and where appropriate to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.

4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Additional Estimates:

(A) Recovery o f expenditure— identification in Explanatory Notes

During the consideration of the departmental Estimates the Committee examined vari­ ous items where the funds appropriated by a department for expenditure on items and services were later recoverable from clients on a ‘user pays’ basis.

Examples of such items are: Department o f Transport (a) Division 655 Administrative Subdivision 2 Adminis­ trative Expenses Item 04 Office and local government services

Under this item costs are incurred on cleaning, maintenance and other services to airports, departmental buildings and vessels are substantially recouped from the ten­ ants of airports and buildings through such means as business concessions, rental from airlines and car parking; and

(b) Division 655 Administrative Subdivision 2 Administrative Expenses Item 05 Fuel, light and power Expenditure under this item for fuel, oils and lubricants necessary for the operation of a Cape Class vessel will be recovered in full in hiring charges from the Division of

National Mapping and the Bureau of Meteorology.

Other items where appropriated funds will be wholly or partlv recovered were examined in the consideration of the departmental estimates of the Department of Sci­ ence and Technology and the Department of the Capital Territory.

83

The Committee appreciates that funds recovered in this manner are paid into Con­ solidated Revenue in accordance with established government accounting procedures. However, the failure to identify the possible amount of money to be recovered from cli­ ents may present a distorted view of the real cost of departmental activities.

The Committee recommends that the items containing proposed expenditure which is to be recovered, in part or in full, should in future be so identified in departmental ex­ planatory notes.

(B) Department o f Science and Technology During consideration of the departmental estimates of the Department of Science and Technology the Committee experienced some difficulty in ascertaining the pro­ cedure adopted in allocating the appropriations of the Department of Science and Technology (formerly the Department of Science and the Environment) between that

Department and the Department of Home Affairs and Environment, following the ad­ ministrative rearrangement of November 1980. Although the Department of Science and Technology and the Department of Finance have provided additional written information on the allocation of the appro­ priations the Committee was unable to satisfactorily examine the departmental esti­ mates because the information that could be the basis of questions was contained in another department’s estimates.

Where departments have changed functions as a result of new administrative ar­ rangements it would assist Estimates Committees in their consideration of proposed expenditure if arrangements could be made between the departments to provide com­ plete information to each Committee in their respective explanatory notes.

(C) Department o f the Capital Territory The Committee noted with concern the delay in implementing the decision an­ nounced by the Minister for the Capital Territory on 1 1 December 1980, to take effect on 12 March 1981, concerning the review of rentals for government houses and flats.

The Committee regards it as unacceptable that the lead time involved with com­ puter and payroll deductions in implementing the rise in rentals should have been so ex­ tended. The Committee believes that the Department has an obligation to recover rental money as soon as possible following such a decision to raise rents to the market level.

5. In conclusion, the Committee wishes to record its appreciation for the explanations provided by the Ministers and officers of the various departments who assisted the Committee.

M. TOWN LEY Chairman

84

Estimates Committee F Minutes of Proceedings

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 1

TUESDAY 7 APRIL 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 6.05 p.m.

2. APPOINTMENT AND MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 2 April 1981 recording the appointment and membership of the Committee was reported. The Committee membership was: Senators Jessop, MacGibbon, Melzer, Mulvihill, Georges and Townley.

3. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolution of the Senate of 2 April 1981 relating to the referral to Estimates Committees of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the year ending on 30 June 1981 was reported.

4. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: On the motion of Senator Jessop, Senator Townley was elected Chairman.

5. OPERATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE: Discussion ensued on the use which the Committee would make of research assistance, and future meetings of the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Meeting adjourned at 6.10 p.m. till a day and hour to be fixed.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Jessop, MacGibbon, Mulvihill, and Townley (4).

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

87

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

THURSDAY 30 APRIL 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 12.35 p.m. The Deputy-Chairman (Senator MacGibbon) took the Chair.

2. SiATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Deputy-Chairman made a statement relat­ ing to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particu­ lars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the service of the year ending on 30 June 1981.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81- DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Minis­ ter assisting the Minister for National Development and Energy, Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, and Senator the Hon. P. D. Durack, Q. C , Attorney-General, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Transport— Mr K. H. Toakley, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Finance and Commercial Division Mr K.. T. Smith, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch Mr G. T. O'Halloran, Finance Director Budget Mr R. H. J. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services

Division Mr B. Weeden, First Assistant Secretary, Air Transport Policy Division Mr Η. B. O'KeefTe, First Assistant Secretary, Airways Operations Mr W. P. Crone, Assistant Secretary, Emergency and Special Services Mr L. Hutchins, Australian National Railways Budget Officer Mr B. L. Mitchell, Director Operations Finance Mr D. Middleton, Executive Officer, Ground Facilities Division Mr D. McLennan, Assistant Secretary, Rail Branch Mr D. O'Brien, Assistant Secretary, Sea Transport Policy Mr T. Brosnan, Acting Assistant Secretary, International Policy Division Department o f Finance—

Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer The Deputy Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 655 and 662 Department of Transport (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure from the Department of Transport subject to an undertaking by the Ministers to pro­ vide additional information to the Committee.

88

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81 — DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, ac­ companied by the following officers: Department o f Science and Technology— Mr C. A. Webster, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch

Mr A. Mikkonen, Assistant Director, Management Support, Productivity De­ velopment Division Mr J. P. Forestier, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Business Management, Patent Office Mr G. Parker, Executive Officer, Finance, Bureau of Meteorology

Mr R. Lloyd, Principal Executive Officer, Space Projects Branch Mr W. Peart, Director, Resource Management, Patent Office Mr G. W. Bullivant, Assistant Director, Finance, Patent Office Mr D. Gray, Station Director, Australian Landsat Station Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization

Mr H. C. Crozier, Secretary, Finance and Administration Dr J. B. Allen, Senior Assistant Secretary, Research Policy Development Mr I. L. Farrar, Assistant Secretary, Budget Mr W. P. Dominguez, Chief Finance Officer, Budget

Mr R. A. Riches, Senior Finance Officer, Budget Department o f Finance— Mr J. L. Griffin, Chief Finance Officer Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer The Deputy-Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 522—554—Science and Technology (Document A) Division 927 Science and Technology (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Science and Technology subject to an undertaking by the Minis­ ter to provide additional information to the Committee.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980 81 DEPARTMENT OF THE CAPITAL TERRITORY:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, ac­ companied by the following officers: Department o f the Capital Territory— Mr D. M. Lalor, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Supply Branch

Mr C. S. Hamilton, Director, Programs and Budgets Section Mr M. Van Gelder, Assistant Secretary, Establishments Branch Mr N. W. Braidwood, Director, Information and Public Relations Section

Mr R. Corrigan, First Assistant Secretary, Lands Division Dr B. Pratt, Director, Conservation and Agriculture Branch Mr W. E. Lawrence, First Assistant Secretary, Legislation and Policy Co-ordin­ ation Division

Mr R. Donnellan, Assistant Secretary, Recreation and Tourism Branch Mr J. Wall, Assistant Secretary, Welfare Branch Mr L. Ryan, Director, City Engineering Mr J. H. Marshall, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Housing Division

Mr J. Turner, Assistant Secretary, Public Transit Branch

89

Mr B. Rope, Assistant Secretary, Housing Branch Mr L. Webcke, Director, Motor Vehicle Registry Mr J. Maher, Executive Officer, Parliament House Construction Authority Mr K. J. Curtis, Secretary/Manager, National Capital Development

Commission Mr B. N. Browning, Assistant Secretary, Program Management Mr I. F. McKendry, Clerk, A.C.T. House of Assembly The Deputy-Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Divisions 210-215—Capital Territory (Document A) Divisions 837 and 839—Capital Territory (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Additional Expenditure from the Department of the Capital Territory subject to an undertaking by the Minis­ ter to provide additional information to the Committee.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.35 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were in attendance: Senator MacGibbon (Deputy-Chairman), and Senators Georges, Jessop, Melzer and Mulvihill. Senators Martin and McLaren were also in attendance.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

90

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 7 April and 30 April 1981, were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Re­ port to the Senate. Discussion ensued. Resolved: That the Report be agreed to.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Townley (Chairman) and Senators Jessop, MacGibbon and Melzer.

M. TOWNLEY Chairman

91

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G REPORT TO THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G

REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee G has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates for the year 1980-81 for the following departments: Health Social Security

Veterans’ Affairs Aboriginal Affairs

2. The Committee has considered these Estimates and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Social Security (Senator Chaney), the Minister for Vet­ erans’ Affairs (Senator Messner) and the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (Senator

Baume) and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceed­ ings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the in­ formation of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1981 and Ap­ propriation Bill (No. 4) 1981.

3. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Ministers and the officers.

N. T. BONNER Chairman

95

Estimates Committee G Minutes of Proceedings

WEDNESDAY 29 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 1.00 p.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room No. 4. 2. APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE AND MEMBERS: The Secretary reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate of 2 April 1981 referring to the

appointment of the Committee and to the appointment of the following Senators to the Committee:

N. T. Bonner R. N. Coleman M. A. Colston D. J. Grimes

B. C. Teague S. Walters

3. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary then called for nominations for Chairman. Senator Bonner was nominated by Senator Walters, seconded by Senator Teague. There being no further nominations, Senator Bonner was duly elected Chairman.

Senator Bonner thereupon took the Chair.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate of 2 April 1981 refer­ ring to the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure 1980-81 for the following Departments:

Health Social Security Veterans’ Affairs Aboriginal Affairs 5. MANNER OF EXAMINING THE ESTIMATES: The Secretary tabled a letter dated 22 April 1981 from the Senior Private Secretary to the Minister for Social Secur­

ity asking that the departments be examined in the following order:

Social Security Veterans’ Affairs Health

Aboriginal Affairs The Committee agreed to this request.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.05 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senators Bonner, Teague and Walters.

99

V T. BONNER Chairman

MONDAY 4 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.34 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the Chair.

2. STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory statement.

3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1980-81: Pursuant to Order of the Senate, the Committee commenced consideration of the Par­ ticulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending 30 June

1981 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending 30 June 1981 as follows:

Division

Document* * Page No. Department Amount

$

A 37 325 329 Health ................................................. 9 806 000

B 8 861 863 Health .................................................. 1 401 000

A 59 590 Social Security .................................. 19 493 000

B 13 940 Social Security .................................. 2 826 000

Λ 66 690 693 Veterans' A f f a i r s ................................... 24 842 000

A 5 120 125 Aboriginal Affairs .............................. 1324 000

B 4 813 815 Aboriginal Affairs .............................. 137 000

* Document A 'Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981'. * Document B 'Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year End­ ing on 30 June 1981'.

4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, ac­ companied by the following officers: Department of Social Security— Mr J. T. O’Connor, Acting Director-General

Mr J. M. Mahoney, First Assistant Director-General (Benefits) Mr V. Rogers, Acting First Assistant Director-General (Development) Mr S. F. Skehill, First Assistant Director-General (Legislation and Review) Mr D. Corrigan, First Assistant Director-General (Management) Mr J. D. Hall, First Assistant Director-General (Rehabilitation and Subsidies) Mrs M. Scott, Assistant Director-General (Project and Development) Mr K. T. Kimball, First Assistant Director-General (Systems and Operations)

100

Mrs Μ. Y. Coleman, Director, Office of Child Care Mr D. R. Scott, Assistant Director-General (Management Services) Mr K. Horsham, Assistant Director-General (Subsidies) Mr J . Hetherington, Principal Executive Officer (Office of Child Care)

Mr J. Wadeson, Director (Budgets and Accounting) Department o f Finance— Mr R. J. Gowing, Senior Finance Officer, A ccounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 590, 940, D epartm ent of Social Security.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure:

Division 590—Social Security $19 493 000 (D ocum ent A) Division 940—Social Security $2 826 000 (D ocum ent B)

The Committee concluded its consideration o f the particulars of proposed ad­ ditional expenditure 1980-81, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide ad­ ditional information.

5. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS O F PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT O F VETERANS’ AFFAIRS:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Department o f Veterans’ Affairs— Management Services Division— Mr G. T. Miller, First Assistant Commissioner Mr G. A. Woodward, Assistant Commissioner ( Finance)

Mr N. W. H. Hunt, Director (Finance O perations) M rT. S. Hughes, Assistant Director (Budgets)

Medical Division— Dr Μ. M. Kehoe, Deputy Chief Director (M edical Services) Treatment Services Division Mr N. Trabinger, First Assistant Commissioner

Mr B. E. O’Shannassy, Assistant Commissioner (Treatment) D rG . E. Brooks, Director (Pharmaceutical Services) Benefits and Legislation Division — Mr R. J. Hill, Acting First Assistant Commissioner Defence Service Homes Corporation

Mr C. E. Stenhouse, Manager, Corporate Planning and Evaluation Branch Mr J. T. Reynolds, Director, Finance Mr R. J. Bear, Director, Insurance Department o f Finance—

Mr R. J. Gowing, Senior Finance Officer. Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on Divisions 690 693. D e p a rt m e n t ol \ eterans Affairs.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure: Divisions 690 693 Veterans’Affairs $24 842 000 ( Document A)

101

The Committee concluded its consideration of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure 1980-81, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information.

6. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH:

Appearing: Senator the Honourable P. E. Baume, representing the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Health— MrC. A. Nettle, Deputy Director-General

Mr L. W. Lane, First Assistant Director-General, Management Services Division Mr J. McCauley, First Assistant Director-General, Health Services Division Mr R. H. Searle, First Assistant Director-General, Quarantine Division

Mr M. Carroll, First Assistant Director-General, Insurance, Hospitals and Nursing Homes Division Mr G. James, Acting First Assistant Director-General, National Health and Medical Research Council Dr W. A. Langsford, First Assistant Director-General, Public Health Division DrC. Selby Smith, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Benefits Division Mr J. W. Shaw, Assistant Director-General, Finance, Pharmacy Earnings and

Projects Branch Dr K. W. Edmondson, First Assistant Director-General, Therapeutics Division Mr G. F. Bunfield, Director, Finance Mr R. A. Foskett, First Assistant Commissioner, Capital Territory Health

Commission Mr G. R. Thom, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Finance, Capital Territory Health Commission Mr D. Lambart, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Planning, Capital

Territory Health Commission Department o f Finance— Mr I. Butt, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on Divisions 325 - 329, 861 863, Department of Health. Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional

Expenditure: Divisions 325 329 Health $9 806 000 (Document A) Divisions 861 863 Health $1 401 000 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the particulars of proposed additional expenditure 1980-81, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.

7. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS: Appearing: Senator the Honourable P. E. Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, ac­ companied by the following officers:

Department o f Aboriginal Affairs— Mr A. J. Ayers, Secretary Mr G. Brownbill, First Assistant Secretary, Development Division Mr N. J. L. Jansz, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division

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Mr R. Toohey, Acting Assistant Secretary, Program Branch Mr M. J. Storokowsky, Acting Director, Program Development Section Mr C. Hamilton, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Department o f Finance—

Mr I. Butt, Senior Finance Officer

The Chairman called on Divisions 120-125, 813-815, Department of Aboriginal Affairs.

Consideration commenced of the following Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure: Divisions 120-125—Aboriginal Affairs $1 324 000 (Document A) Divisions 813-815—Aboriginal Affairs $137 000 (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the particulars of proposed ad­ ditional expenditure 1980-81, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide ad­ ditional information.

8. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.40 p.m.

9. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman), and Senators Coleman, Grimes, Teague and Walters. Senators Kilgariff and Mulvihill were also in attendance.

N. T. BONNER Chairman

103

MONDAY 4 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 10.40 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the Chair.

2. CONSIDERATION OF EXPLANATIONS: The Committee considered the expla­ nations given by the Ministers and officers appearing before the Committee that day.

3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.45 p.m.

4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner, Coleman, Teague and Walters.

N.T. BONNER Chairman

104

THURSDAY 7 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 4

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.05 p.m. in Room No. Μ 136, Parliament House, Canberra.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 29 April 1981,4 May 1981 and 7 May 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT: The Chairman presented his draft report to the Committee. Resolved: That the Report be agreed to.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.10 p.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Bonner (Chairman), Coleman, Teague and Walters.

N. T. BONNER Chairman

105

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H REPORT TO THE SENATE

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H REPORT TO THE SENATE

Estimates Committee H has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.

1. On 2 April 1981 the Senate referred to the Committee the Additional Estimates of Expenditure for the year ending 1980-81, relating to the following departments:

Department of Primary Industry Department of Industry and Commerce Department of Trade and Resources

2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of Additional Expenditure and has received explanations of them from the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of proceedings and Hansard report of evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in con­

nection with Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1981 and Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 1981. Further written explanations furnished by departments will be presented seperately and printed in the Hansard record.

3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matter:

Department o f Trade and Resources— Division 640.1.02—Salaries and payments in the nature o f salary The processing by the Export Development Grants Boards of claims by exporters for grants payable under the provisions of the Export Market Development Grants Act

1974 and the Export Expansion Grants Act 1978 continues to attract comment from the Estimates Committees.

Estimates Committee F, in its report on the Additional Estimates in April 1980. commented on the ‘arrears in processing claims in spite of a recent increase in (the Board’s) staff ceilings and additional overtime'. That Committee recommended the Board’s ‘staffing position be reviewed by the Public Service Board and its establishment adjusted to a level which ensures that the backlog of claims is reduced and a reasonable

workload maintained without undue delays in the processing of claims'.

Despite an increase in the Board’s staffing levels in 1980 81 and a commensurate increase in the number of claims processed, increases in the number of claims during the year have more than outweighed this effort, resulting in an expected enlarged backlog of unprocessed claims at the end of the current financial y ear.

The Committee was informed (Hansard, 4 May 1981. p. 514) that the Boards employment establishment for 1980 81, as determined by the Public Service Board, was based on the level of staff required to process claims to the value of S260m. the sum approved in the Budget appropriations.

Additional information provided by the Department at the Committees request shows that it has been apparent for some time that the board would have neither the staff nor the approved appropriations to significantly reduce the backlog of outstanding claims this year. This being the case, the Committee is at a loss to understand why approval for supplementary appropriations was not sought in the Additional Estimates.

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The information provided by the Department states: The Minister for Trade and Resources to whom the EDGB reports regularly is responsible for seeking supplemen­ tary appropriations. The Minister in determining whether or not to seek additional funds would take into consideration the Government’s policy on supplementary appro­ priations. Also available to the Minister would be basic information as to the claims de­ termined at the time of the preparation of the additional estimates and an estimate of the claims likely to be determined in the balance of the financial year relative to the ap­ propriated funds remaining’.

Whilst accepting the Department’s explanation, the Committee remains unsatisfied that supplementary appropriations for this purpose were not sought in the Additional Estimates.

4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Minister and the officers of the Departments concerned.

12 May 1981

BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman

Estimates Committee H Minutes of Proceedings

THURSDAY 9 APRIL 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 1

1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 9.30 a.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 7.

2. APPOINTMENT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Secretary reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate No. 22, dated 2 April 1981, relating to the appointment of Estimates Committee H.

3. MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE: The Secretary reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate No. 22, dated 2 April 1981, relating to the appointment to the Committee of Senators Archer, Lajovic, McAuliffe, Neal, Primmer and Walsh.

4. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN: The Secretary called for nominations for the pos­ ition of Chairman. Senator Archer was nominated by Senator Lajovic, seconded Senator Primmer. There being no other nominations, Senator Archer was declared elected and thereupon took the Chair.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1981: The Chairman reported the entry in the Journals o f the Senate No. 22, dated 2 April 1981, relating to the referral of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 and the particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 to the Com­ mittee for examination and report.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.40 a.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Archer (Chairman), Senators Lajovic, Neal, Primmer and Walsh.

BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman

113

MONDAY 4 MAY 1981

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 2

1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 10.30 a.m. in Senate Com­ mittee Room 6. The Chairman (Senator Archer) took the Chair.

2. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman made a statement relat­ ing to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981—Document A; and Particulars of Certain proposed Additional Expenditure in

Respect of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981 Document B for the departments as indicated:

Division

Document* Page No. Department Amount

$

A 51 490 497 Primary I n d u s tr y .................................. 4 173 000

B 12 907 Primary I n d u s tr y .................................. 658 000

A 47 380 528 Industry and Commerce .................... 12 781000

B II 888 921 Industry and Commerce .................... 1795 000

A 60 640 646 Trade and Resources ........................ 3 073 000

* Document A ‘Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year Ending on 30 June 1981’.

’ Document B "Particulars of Certain Proposed Additional Expenditure in Respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1981’.

3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1981 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND RESOURCES:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, represent­ ing the Minister for Trade and Resources, accompanied by the following officers:

Department o f Trade and Resources— Mr R. T. Anderson, Assistant Secretary, Personnel, Finance and Services Mr S. J. Ryan, Director, Finance and Services Mr A. L. Paltridge, First Assistant Secretary, Trade Promotion and Services Department o f Finance—

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Particulars o f Proposed Additional Expenditure 1981: Division 640-646 Department of Trade and Resources (Document A)

1 14

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Trade and Resources.

4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1981 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, represent­ ing the Minister for Primary Industry, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Primary Industry— Mr T. J. Kelly, First Assistant Secretary, Development Division

Mr D. D. R. Pearson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr G. M. Young, Acting Assistant Secretary, Agriculture and Food Services Division Dr A. B. Stoeckel, Acting Director, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Mr N. J. Lamb, Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Mr E. A. Purnell-Webb, First Assistant Secretary, Industry No. 5 (Fisheries)

Division Mr C. A. McGregor, Acting Assistant Secretary, Industry No. 5 (Fisheries) Division Mr P. Wurfel, Acting Assistant Director, Management Services Branch Mr J. A. Hart, Senior Assistant Director, Australian Bureau of Animal Health Mr J. F. Landos, Principal Executive Officer, Australian Bureau of Animal

Health Mr D. G. Millman, Assistant Director, Management Services Branch Department o f Finance— Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Particulars o f Proposed Additional Expenditure 1981: Division 490 497—Department of Primary Industry (Document A) Division 907 Department of Primary Industry (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Department of Primary Industry.

5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURE 1981 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE:

Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, represent­ ing the Minister for Industry and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Industry and Commerce— Mr P. G. Gifford, First Assistant Secretary, Finance and Management Services

Division Mr L. Wrigley, Assistant Controller, Munitions Supply Division Mr J. C. Comerford, Principal Executive Officer (Administration) Munitions Supply Division

Mr A. P. Foley, Acting Assistant Controller (Aircraft Branch) Aircraft. Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division Mr R. Kinsella, Principal Executive Officer (Administration) Aircraft. Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division Mr K. McKnown, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Property Branch. Finance

and Management Services Division

115

Mr K. G. Hocking, Assistant Secretary, Management Services and Secretariat Branch Mr G. J. Collopy, Assistant Secretary, Electrical and Metal Products Branch, Industry Division 2 Mr J. Martin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Economic Analysis Branch, Policy

Division Mr A. Caddy, Assistant Secretary, international Branch, Policy Division Mr R. Gray, Director, Assistance Policy Section Department o f Finance—

Mr D. J. Evans, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division

The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:

Particulars o f Proposed Additional Expenditure 1981: Division 380-528— Department of Industry and Commerce (Document A) Division 888-921 - Department of Industry and Commerce (Document B)

The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Ad­ ditional Expenditure for the Department of Industry and Commerce.

6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 3.50 p.m.

7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Archer (Chairman), Senators Lajovic, Neal and Walsh. Senator Robertson also attended.

BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman

116

THE SENATE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS No. 3

TUESDAY 12 MAY 1981

1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 10.30 a.m. in Senate Committee Room 4. The Chairman (Senator Archer) took the Chair.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings of meetings held on 9 April and 4 May 1981 were read and confirmed.

3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman's draft Report to the Senate. The draft was adopted without amendment.

4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.45 a.m.

5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Archer (Chairman) and Senators Lajovic, Neal and Walsh.

BRIAN R ARCHER Chairman

117