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SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H
Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for year 1981-82
Presented and
ordered to be p rin te d 16 Septem ber 1982,
23 Septem ber 1982 an d 14 O ctober 1982
Parliamentary Paper No. 320/1982
Parliamentary Paper No. 320/1982
The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia
SENATE ESTIMATES COMMITTEES A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H
Reports to the Senate on Departmental Estimates for year 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for year 1981-82
T he C om m onw ealth G overnm ent Printer
Canberra 1983
© Commonwealth of Australia 1983
ISSN 081 1-0883
CONTENTS
Page
1. Resolution of the S e n a t e ......................................................................... v
2. Membership of C o m m itte e s.................................................................... vii
3. Estimates Committee A R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 3
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 7 September 1982 13
13 September 1982 15,16
15 September 1982 19
4. Estimates Committee B R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 23
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 26 August 1982 27
7 September 1982 28
13 September 1982 31
14 September 1982 35
16 September 1982 37
5. Estimates Committee C Report ............................................................................................ . 41
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 7 September 1982 45
13 September 1982 47
14 September 1982 52
21 September 1982 ........................................................................ 54, 55
11 October 1982 57
6. Estimates Committee D R e p o r t ...................................................................................................... 61
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 26 August 1982 67
9 September 1982 68
10 September 1982 72
21 September 1982 75
22 September 1982 77
12 October 1982 78
7. Estimates Committee E R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 81
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 9 September 1982 87
10 September 1982 90
8. Estimates Committee F R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 95
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 9 September 1982 99,100
20 September 1982 103
22 September 1982 105
Page
9. Estimates Committee G R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 109
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 16 September 1982 ......................................................................... 115
17 September 1982 118
21 September 1982 120
22 September 1982 122
10. Estimates Committee H R e p o r t ................................................................................................. 125
Minutes of Proceedings 1982 16 September 1982 129
13 October 1982 133
RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE PASSED ON 24 AUGUST 1982
Estimates Committees— Reference o f Particulars o f Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Departmental Expenditure under Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82: The Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Sir John Garrick), pursuant to Notice of Motion not objected to as a Formal Motion, moved—
(1) That the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983 in relation to the Parliamentary Departments, the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in res
pect of the Year ending on 30 June 1983 be referred to Estimates Committees for examination and report. (2) That expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1982 be referred to Estimates Committees for examin
ation and report prior to its consideration in Committee of the Whole. (3) That the Committees consider Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance, by depart ments, as follows:
Estimates Committee A Parliamentary Departments Attorney-General’s Vice-President of the Executive Council Estimates Committee B
Education Communications Home Affairs and Environment Estimates Committee C
Prime Minister and Cabinet Treasury Finance Administrative Services Estimates Committee D
Defence Defence Support Foreign Affairs Immigration and Ethnic Affairs Estimates Committee E
National Development and Energy Employment and Industrial Relations Capital Territory Estimates Committee F
Science and Technology Transport and Construction Aviation Estimates Committee G
Health Social Security Veterans’ Affairs Aboriginal Affairs
Estimates Committee H Primary Industry Industry and Commerce Trade and Resources. (4) That the Committees report to the Senate on or before Thursday,
23 September 1982.
M EM BERSHIP OF COMMITTEES
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
Senator Peter Rae (Chairman) Senator Bolkus Senator Evans Senator Hamer1
Senator Hill2 Senator Reid Senator Tate
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B Senator Collard (Chairman) Senator Colston Senator Haines
Senator Hearn Senator Martin Senator Teague
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C Senator Lewis (Chairman) Senator Bjelke-Petersen3 Senator Gietzelt
Senator McLaren Senator Martyr Senator Robert Ray Senator Reid4
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
Senator Kilgariff (Chairman) Senator Jessop Senator McIntosh Senator Mulvihill
Senator Sibraa Senator Watson
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
Senator Thomas (Chairman) Senator Childs Senator Crichton-Browne Senator Elstob
Senator Hill Senator Robertson
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F Senator Townley (Chairman) Senator Coates Senator Georges
Senator Jones Senator MacGibbon Senator Withers
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G Senator Bonner (Chairman) Senator Coleman5 Senator Giles
Senator Grimes Senator Martin6 Senator Martyr7 Senator Ryan8
Senator Teague Senator Walters9
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H
Senator Archer (Chairman) Senator Foreman Senator Lajovic Senator Primmer
Senator Scott Senator Walsh
(1) Discharged 9 September 1982, (2) Appointed 9 September 1982. (3) Discharged 23 September 1982. (4) Appointed 23 September 1982. (5) Discharged 24 August 1982.
(6) Appointed 17 September 1982, discharged 21 September 1982. (7) Appointed 8 September 1982, discharged 17 September 1982. (8) Appointed 24 August 1982. (9) Discharged 8 September 1982, re-appointed 21 September 1982.
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee A has the honour to report to the Senate.
1. On 4 August 1982, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Year 1982-83, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82, relating to the Parliament, the Attorney-General’s Department and the Department of the Vice-President of the Executive Council.
2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of the Departments, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received evidence in relation to them from the President of the Senate, Senator the Honourable Harold Young, the Attorney-General, Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., the Minister for Vet
erans’ Affairs, Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, and officers of the Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83 and
Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill 1982-83. Answers to questions which were deferred and subsequently given in writing since the Committee’s last hear ings will be tabled in the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.
3. The Commitee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters aris ing from its consideration of the Estimates:
PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS
In considering the Estimates of the Parliamentary Departments, the Committee took due note of a significant historic occasion. For the first time since the establishment of the Parliament in 1901, the Committee considered proposed appropriations, a proposed allocation of an Advance to the President of the Senate, and a proposed Joint
Advance to the President and the Speaker, as contained in a document separately re ferred to it by the Senate.
As the President of the Senate stated at the commencement of the hearings, the examination was historic:
. . in the sense that this is the first occasion . . . that the appropriations for the
parliamentary departments have been placed in a separate Bill. The credit for this initiative must go to many people—in particular, the members of the Senate Select Committee on Parliament’s Appropri ations and Staffing; the Government, for its acceptance of the recommendations of that Committee; and the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Sir John Garrick, for his co-operation during
discussions on how the mechanics of this could be achieved.” (Hansard, Estimates Committee A, 7 September 1982, p. 2)
The Committee applauds the long-awaited legislative recognition that proposed expenditure for the Parliament is not an ordinary annual service of the Government, and therefore will not be treated as such now or in the future.
The Committee also noted that, while expenditure proposed for the Parliamentary Departments is contained in one-line appropriations, full details of proposed expendi ture are included in the publicly-available Explanatory Notes of the Departments under examination, in accordance with the standards which the Senate has always
required of other bodies funded by one-line appropriations.
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Department of the Senate The President advised the Committee that:
“This year the estimates of expenditure for the Department of the Senate have, for the first time, been prepared with the approval of the Senate Standing Committee on Appropriations and Staffing.” (ibid.)
However, Estimates Committee A was mindful of the recommendation contained in the Staffing and Appropriation Committee’s First Report, and reiterated in its Sec ond Report:
“that the Senate should continue to refer the estimates of the Department of the Senate and of the other parliamentary departments to an Estimates Committee, subject to any decision by the Senate as to the future of the Estimates Committees and the procedures for considering the estimates. This Committee considers that at present its proceedings in relation to the estimates should not be taken as replacing the normal examination by Estimates Committees.”
Estimates Committee A acknowledges that its examination of the Department of the Senate was facilitated by the detailed knowledge and information at the disposal of this Committee as a result of the consideration of the Estimates by the Staffing and Ap propriations Committee prior to their inclusion in the Appropriations (Parliamentary Departments) Bill 1982-83.
One matter arising from the Committee’s consideration of the Estimates concerns the engagement of legal officers by the Department to draft private members’ Bills. As the Clerk of the Senate indicated in evidence, for some years the Senate and Estimates Committee A have been concerned about the lack of capacity in the Office of Parlia
mentary Counsel to draft private members’ Bills and major amendments. Following a decision by the Staffing and Appropriations Committee, and advice from the Attorney- General that he was unable to guarantee satisfactory provision of assistance to private Senators, action was taken to approve the appointment of two experienced former par liamentary draftsmen for this purpose. The Committee commends this initiative, which underlines the independence of Parliament from executive control evidenced by the separate Parliamentary Appropriations Bill.
Department of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff In April 1982, during the early stages of the Senate’s experiment with new sitting hours, officers of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff advised the Committee that the Hansard staff was managing under the arrangements “with a little difficulty” (Hansard, Esti
mates Committee A, 27 April 1982, p. 409). During the present hearings, the Principal Parliamentary Reporter advised that, so far, the staff is “coping”, but has had some problems when the unexpected has occurred, such as the Senate’s not rising according to schedule. The Committee wishes to place on record its appreciation of the excellent service provided by the Parliamentary Reporting Staff, and concomitantly the Govern ment Printer, under difficult circumstances.
Parliamentary Library
The Committee was greatly assisted in its examination of the Estimates for the Parlia mentary Library by the comprehensive and detailed Explanatory Notes provided. These notes were, in the Committee’s opinion, an outstanding example of what is required in the production of Explanatory Notes generally, and the Committee com mends them to the attention of all departments.
As a consequence of the complete and thorough explanations available in the notes, the time required to examine the Estimates for the Library was considerably reduced.
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Joint House Department When considering the Estimates of the Joint House Department, the Committee was aware that the Senate House Committee has recently reported on an inquiry, deriving from a recommendation of this Committee following its examination of the Joint
House Estimates 1981-82, into the organisation, operation, functions and financial administration of the Department. In accordance with the principle of comity between committees, whereby a matter
which is being investigated, or has been investigated, by one committee should not be inquired into by another, other than for the purpose of a further inquiry with the knowledge and at the instigation of the Senate itself, the Committee did not give detailed attention to matters on which the House Committee had made recommen
dations to the Senate. So far as its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure by the Joint House Depart ment was concerned, the Committee noted a significant improvement in the Explana tory Notes of the Department, which contrasted with the notes on which the Com
mittee had commented in its last two Reports. The detail provided assisted the Committee in its examination of the Estimates.
ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT
Crown Solicitor’s Division In November 1979, a review team was commissioned through the Public Service Board, to undertake a Joint Management Review of the Crown Solicitor’s Division of the Attorney-General’s Department. Estimates Committee B noted at its hearings in Sep tember 1980 that the report of the review team was delivered to the Public Service
Board during the week ending 30 June 1980. During its present examination of the Estimates for the Attorney-General’s Depart ment, it became clear to Estimates Committee A that implementation of the rec ommendations of the review team has, in the main, suffered a delay of at least 12 to 18 months. For example, the recommendations concerning the staffing and establishment of the Central Office of the Crown Solicitor, recommended for implementation within
nine months of receipt of the Management Review Report, did not receive Public Ser vice Board approval until October 1981. While all Second Division and Principal Legal Officer positions have now been permanently filled, beginning in February 1982, rec ommendations have been made with respect to only half of the senior legal officer pos
itions. Similar slippage from the implementation programme has also occurred in re lation to restructuring at the Deputy Crown Solicitor level; the facilitation process required to accommodate the proposed new work unit deployment recommended in the Report; and systems development.
Reasons for the delay in implementing the Joint Management Review Committee’s recommendations are varied, ranging from anticipated relocations of offices to the com plexity of procedures for the acquisition of word and data processors. It appears, however, from evidence given to the Committee, that a significant cause
of the delay was the attitude of the Public Service Board. The Committee was advised by the Crown Solicitor that:
“. . . in March 1981 implementation . . . came to a halt. The Public Service Board was not prepared, after the establishment of the Committee for the Review of Commonwealth Functions and the appearance of the Crown Solicitor’s Division in the area of the deliberations of that Committee, to proceed at all with re-organisation proposals or with the processing of requests for additional equip
ment to give effect entirely to the JMR recommendations because, so it was said, it seemed uncertain at that time whether, having regard to the functions that the Crown Solicitor’s Division might end up
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with, it would be appropriate to give effect to all the recommendations made by JMR. ” (Hansard , 13 September 1982, p. 239).
The Crown Solicitor then observed: “That is a view that I did not then agree with; I still do not agree with it.” (ibid.)
In later evidence, the Crown Solicitor commented: “It is difficult to put to the Public Service Board with any prospect of success a proposal for a new pos ition in a division when there are positions not yet fully filled. That was the case with our division. But as soon as we got to the point where we had advanced down to the last level to be filled in the central office, we put [a proposal for a First Assistant Crown Solicitor (Litigation)] to the Board. Let it be said, in fairness to the Board, that that was quite recently—in only the last three weeks." (Hansard,
p. 248)
The Committee was advised that the position sought has been given to the Crown Solicitor’s Division. However, a proposal submitted at the same time and based on the Joint Management Review’s concern at the lack of tax expertise in the Division, to establish a revenue section, has been reserved by the Board for further examination. The following question was then put to the Crown Solicitor:
“So, not to put too nice a point on it, it required an appropriate or congenial political climate for the matter to be regarded as having some force when you took it to the Public Service Board . . , ?” (Hansard, p. 249)
The Crown Solicitor responded as follows: “To be regarded as having a real prospect of success, yes. The Attorney says, and I agree entirely, that this should be put in perspective; that until one has really established how the organisation proposed by the Board will work in practice it is not much use going back to the Board and asking for some change. This took some months of occupancy of the positions by the First Assistant Crown Solicitors on both the management and the commercial sides.” (ibid.)
The Committee accepts that some factors outside the control of either the manage ment of the Crown Solicitor’s Division and the Attorney-General’s Department or the Public Service Board caused some of the delay in implementing the Joint Management Review recommendations. It has also noted the Crown Solicitor’s comments (Hansard, p. 238) that “it seemed to me at the time that [the JMR] estimates were, if anything, on the optimistic side.” However, delays of the order identified in evidence, in implement ing proposals designed to have full effect within two years of the receipt of a compre hensive consultancy report appear to the Committee to be an illustration of unaccept able rigidity on the part of the Public Service Board—the independent managerial agency of the Commonwealth. The consequences of such delays are now painfully obvious.
Commonwealth Legal Aid Council In April 1981, Professor G. G. Meredith of the University of New England Financial Management Research Centre, was commissioned by the then Commonwealth Legal
Aid Commission to conduct a study in which a comparison and evaluation would be made of the cost of different matters and services provided for Legal Aid Commissions by private and salaried lawyers. Successive Estimates Committees have closely moni tored the progress of this study, in view of the broad implications for the delivery of legal aid in Australia.
Unfortunately, the final report of this project has a long history of delays. The re port was originally to be available in August 1981, but receipt was postponed to November 1981. A report was presented to the Legal Aid Council in December 1981, but the report was not acceptable to the Council, which required that Professor Meredith do further work.
During the Committee’s current hearings, it was advised that Professor Meredith’s inquiries are now complete, and that the Council has resolved to require Professor
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Meredith to have his draft final report to the Council by 31 October 1982. On being asked whether there was any reason to suppose that the deadline would not be met, the officer before the Committee commented:
“It is difficult for me really to be optimistic. However, the Council has been very firm in its request and I can only hope that the consultant will comply with that.” (Hansard, 13 September 1982, p. 286)
The Committee notes with concern the delays that have occurred in the progress of this project, in view of its considerable interest and importance—and particularly in the light of advice given to the Committee that Professor Meredith has received “all but $3250 of the $34 842 which is the total contract price.” (ibid.)
Freedom of Information Act— training program In its Annual Report 1981-82, the Public Service Board expressed concern “whether the relatively brief seminars envisaged by the [Attorney-General’s] Department will provide a sufficient grounding for officers faced with the responsibility for implement
ing the complex provisions of the [Freedom of Information] Act by the target date.” (Report, p. 19) The Committee was informed that the Department was advised by more than 90 per cent of the approximate 300 agencies affected by the implementation of the Act that they would prefer a one-day rather than a two-day training program. Discussions
are also being held with the Canberra College of Advanced Education on the possibility of conducting more extended seminar programs for officers required to make decisions under the legislation. The Committee trusts that the extended seminars envisaged by the Department will be arranged, so that fears expressed by the Public Service Board
will soon be allayed.
Courts and Tribunals In its Report to the Senate of 4 May 1982, the Committee commented on what it considered to be excessive travel costs incurred by Federal Court Judges and their staff. In 1981-82, these costs averaged approximately $42 000 per Judge per year.
In the 1982-83 Estimates, $710 800 is allocated to this item, an increase of 14 per cent. The reason for the 14 per cent increase in costs may be found in the increase in activity of the Federal Court. For example, the general industrial division workload is
expected to increase by 18 per cent in 1982 over matters filed in 198!. An increased number of appellate sittings, and provision for activity associated with the B.L.F. deregistration case, are also matters affecting the proposed travel and subsistence vote in 1982-83.
So far as action to control travel and subsistence costs is concerned, the Committee was advised that:
“Last year, the Chief Judge wrote to each judge of the Federal Court . . . asking each judge to examine with some care the number of personal staff required to travel with the judge.” (Hansard, 1 3 September 1982, p. 274)
In addition, the Committee was advised that, following the hearings in May 1982, the Hansard report of the Committee’s proceedings was provided to each judge. A resident judge was appointed in Brisbane in November 1981, while a further resident judge will be located in Perth as from December 1982.
The Committee commends the action taken by the Chief Judge of the Federal Court to control travel and subsistence costs, and looks forward to the time when such controls will be more obviously reflected in the appropriations sought.
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National Companies and Securities Commission The NCSC is funded by contributions from the Commonwealth (50 per cent) and the States. In view of the 50 per cent contribution made by the Commonwealth the primary responsibility for funding arrangements has been undertaken by the Commonwealth
Department of Finance, which sets the funding figure ultimately accepted by the States. During the hearings, the Committee was informed that, because of some tardiness at both Commonwealth and State level in paying their share of the costs, the NCSC was experiencing some cash flow problems. The problem was attributed to the different
financial arrangements operating at Commonwealth level, and as between the States, rather than to any disinclination on the part of governments to contribute towards funding. While the difficulties have been made known to the participating governments, it appears that no solution is within sight. The Committee considers that it is highly undesirable that the NCSC be placed in such an invidious position, and urges prompt action to resolve the problem.
Provision of Information The Committee was pleased to note that the Attorney-General and his officers had prepared comprehensive statistical tables on a variety of subjects, in anticipation of information the Committee might wish to seek.
The tables produced were of a consistently high quality, and the Committee commends the. officers responsible for their initiative and thoughtfulness. The ready availability of the information greatly assisted the Committee in its examination. The Committee also appreciated the courtesy of the Attorney-General in making available to it, on a confidential basis, the draft Annual Report of the Attorney- General’s Department.
GENERAL
Comity between Committees
As discussed earlier, in relation to the Estimates of the Joint House Department, the Committee refrained as much as possible, consonant with its responsibility to examine proposed expenditure under its terms of reference, from examining matters which had been the subject of inquiry and a recent report by another Senate Committee. The ques tion also arose during consideration of the Estimates of the Attorney-General’s Depart ment, in relation to an inquiry at present being undertaken by the Joint Committee of
Public Accounts. The Committee recommends that the Standing Orders Committee be requested to consider drawing up guidelines for the assistance of all Committees, to assist in the res olution of the problem of potential intrusion into areas which may prejudice other Committees’ operations.
Allocation of Departments to Estimates Committees Following the allocation of Departmental Estimates to Committees as a result of Min isterial changes, and consequential changes to the Administrative Arrangements Order, the Committee was somewhat surprised to discover that it was to examine the newly- created Department of the Vice-President of the Executive Council. While the task of the Committee was undoubtedly made easier by the brief existence, and modest budget, of the Department, one unhappy consequence was the loss of continuity of inquiry into other departments which had previously been examined.
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While recognising the difficulties involved in making appropriate allocations to Committees after a substantial reallocation of departmental responsibilities, the Com mittee noted that the allocation in this case appeared to be in some conflict with the principle of grouping departments closely aligned to the subject-area of the Legislative
and General Purpose Standing Committees. Perhaps consultation with Committee members might have led to a more suitable allocation.
Auditor-General’s Special Report
The President of the Senate made available to the Committee copies of correspondence between the Auditor-General and the President, concerning the production of a special report under section 54 of the Audit Act. The Report, which was tabled in the Senate on 7 September 1982, contained the results of departmental and authority audits
completed by 30 June 1982, which would ordinarily form part of the Auditor-General’s Annual Report. The Auditor-General advised the President that he had taken this course in re sponse to the interest of Estimates Committees in having available the latest possible advice of audit findings.
The Committee wishes to express its appreciation of the high level of co-operation by the Auditor-General, and acknowledges that initiatives of this nature are of con siderable assistance to the effective operation of the Estimates Committee system. The Committee also expresses its appreciation of the assistance given by the Presi
dent of the Senate, the Attorney-General, the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and the officers of the various Departments who assisted the Committee.
PETER RAE Chairman
15 September 1982
9
5
Estimates Committee A Minutes of Proceedings
TUESDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 5.50 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman reported the Resolution of the Senate of 24 August 1982 referring to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 for the Parliamentary Departments, and the Particulars of Proposed
Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 for the following Departments: Attorney-General’s Vice-President of the Executive Council and made a statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Estimates.
3. PA RTICULA RS OF PROPOSED E X PE N D IT U R E 1982-83 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82—PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS
In Attendance: Senator the Honourable Harold Young, President of the Senate, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f the Senate— Mr A. R. Cumming Thom, Clerk of the Senate
Mr H. C. Nicholls, Acting Deputy Clerk of the Senate Mr H, G. Smith, Clerk-Assistant Mr P. N. Murdoch, Usher of the Black Rod Mr C. Edwards, Acting Senior Clerk of Committees
Mr M. Rosser, Senior Parliamentary Officer (IPU) Mr G. Nankervis, Senior Parliamentary Officer (Administration)
Department o f Finance— Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The President of the Senate made an introductory statement.
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Division 101 Department of the Senate Division 102 Advance to the President of the Senate (Document A—Parliamentary Departments)
The Committee, having completed its consideration of Divisions 101 and 102, suspended its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 for the Parliamentary Departments.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.23 p.m.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 14
13
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J, Evans, Senator D. J. Hamer, D.S.C., Senator M. C. Tate and Senator Î. E. Reid. Senators Macklin, McClelland and Robertson also attended.
PETER RAE Chairman
14
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met in private session at 10.30 a.m. in Senate Com mittee Room 4. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.
2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEE: The entry in the Journals of the Senate of 9 September 1982, recording the following change in the membership of the Committee, was reported:
Discharged: Senator Hamer Appointed: Senator Hill 3. COMMITTEE PROCEDURE: The Committee discussed the procedure to be adopted in the consideration of the Estimates this day.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.35 a.m. 5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator R. Hill, Senator M. C. Tate. An apology was received from Senator Î. E. Reid.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 15
PETER RAE Chairman
15
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.40 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82—ATTORNEY-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT.
In Attendance: Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General and Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following officers: Attorney-General's Department—
Mr. A. R, Neaves, Secretary Mr. Î. T. Bennett, Deputy Secretary Mr. A. C. Menzies, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr. B. J. O’Donovan, Crown Solicitor Mr. L. J, Glare, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Special Services
Division Mr. M. Cranswick, First Assistant Secretary, Trade Practices and Consumer Affairs Division Mr. J. H. Greenwell, First Assistant Secretary, Business Affairs Division Mr. P. Kennedy, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Affairs Division Mr. P. R. Loof, Divisional Manager, First Assistant Crown Solicitor Mr. E. J. Wright, First Assistant Secretary, Legislative Drafting Division Mr. P. McDonald, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Justice Division Mr. C. B. Fernando, Senior Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch Mr. C. Creswell, Senior Assistant Secretary, Intellectual Property and Industrial
Law Branch Mr. P. Baskett, Assistant Secretary, Operations Branch Mr. J. Carnsew, Assistant Secretary, Special Services Branch Mr. R. Smeaton, Assistant Secretary, Establishments and Planning Branch Mr. A. Green, Chief Reporter, Commonwealth Reporting Service Miss M. Campbell, Principal Legal Officer, Commonwealth Legal Aid Mr. L. Gilroy, Acting Principal Registrar, Family Court of Australia Mr. L. J. Curtis, First Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Division Mr. J. Howard, Registrar, Federal Court of Australia Mr. J. Ley, Acting Assistant Director, Australian Legal Aid Office Division Mr. G. Wheeler, Director, Legal Aid Commission (A.C.T.) Mr. W. Coad, First Assistant Commissioner, Policy Secretariat and Enquiries
Division, Trade Practices Commission Mr. R. Schoer, Executive Director, National Companies and Securities Commission Dr. D. Edgar, Director, Institute of Family Studies Mr. P. Bailey, Deputy Chairman, Human Rights Commission Mr. J. Thomson, Secretary, Human Rights Commission
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 16
16
Mr. W. Clifford, Director, Australian Institute of Criminology Mr. L. Fox, Marshal, High Court of Australia Mr. F. Jones, Acting Clerk, High Court of Australia Mr. G. Kolts, First Parliamentary Counsel
Mr. T. Heming, Acting Director, ADP Branch Mr. R. Venables, Director, Finance Section Department o f Finance— Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply
Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 165, 170, 179, 180, 165 Attorney-General’s Department (Docu- (re-examination) 189, 170 (re- mentB) examination), 175, 177, 178, 181, 184, 185, 186, 188, 190, 165 (re examination)— Divisions 818, 819, 820— Attorney-General’s Department (Docu
ment C)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 for the Attorney-General’s Department, subject to an undertaking by the Attorney- General to provide additional information to the Committee.
3. P A R T I C U L A R S OF P R O P O S E D E X P E N D I T U R E 1982-83 — DEPARTMENT OF THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL.
In Attendance: Senator the Honourable Peter Durack, Q.C., Attorney-General, ac companied by the following officers:
Department o f the Vice-President o f the Executive Council— Mr. B. F. Cox, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Mr. S. A. Hamilton, Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary Branch, Department of
the Prime Minister and Cabinet Mr. F. A. Leverett, Liaison Officer, Department of the Vice-President of the Executive Council Department o f Finance—
Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration: Division 700 Department of the Vice-President of the Executive Council
(Document B)
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 for the Department of the Vice-President of the Executive Council. 4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83—
PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS In Attendance: Senator the Honourable Harold Young, President of the Senate, ac companied by the following officers: Parliamentary Reporting Staff—
Mr J. W. Roberts, Principal Parliamentary Reporter
17
Mr J. M. Campbell, Assistant Principal Parliamentary Reporter Mr M. J. Farrelley, Administrative Officer Parliamentary Library— Mr H. Maclean, Acting Parliamentary Librarian
Dr G. Webb, Head, Legislative Research Service Mrs J. Brudenall, Head, Systems and Co-ordination Mrs R. M. Sluyters, Acting Head Librarian, Library Reference and Information Service Joint House Department—
Mr J, M. Jorgensen, Secretary Mr F, W. Bradley, Director, Finance and Administration Mr L. N. Kelly, Personnel Manager Mr R. Kalnins, Acting Security Co-ordinator Mr C. R. Crapp, Principal Technical Officer Mr J, B. Holdforth, Manager, Commonwealth Parliamentary Refreshment
Rooms
Mr M. Talberg, Secretary, Joint Parliamentary Committee of Public Accounts Mr R. B. Fenton, Secretary, Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works Department o f Finance—
Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 105-108 Parliamentary Departments (Document A) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 for the Parliamentary Departments. 5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.50 p.m.
6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans, Senator R. Hill, Senator Î. E. Reid, Senator M. C. Tate. Senators Button, Grimes, Jessop, Kilgariff and Robertson also attended.
PETER RAE Chairman
18
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE A
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 17
WEDNESDAY, 15 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.35 p.m. in Senate Com mittee Room No. 5. The Chairman (Senator Peter Rae) took the Chair.
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 7 September 1982 and 13 September 1982 were confirmed.
3. REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate.
Resolved: That the draft Report be agreed to.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.40 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Peter Rae (Chairman), Senator N. Bolkus, Senator G. J. Evans and Senator R. Hill. Apologies were received from Senator Î. E. Reid and Senator M. C. Tate.
PETER RAE Chairman
19
Î
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B REPORT TO THE SENATE
I
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee B has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 24 August 1982, the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1982 relating to the following Departments:
Communications Education Home Affairs and Environment 2. The Committee considered the Estimates and the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations from the Minister for Education and officers of the Departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the Senate’s consideration of
Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters:
Annual Reports of Departments and Statutory Authorities In the course of the Committee’s hearings attention was given to the procedure under which Annual Reports are compiled, approved, printed and tabled in the Parliament. The Committee is concerned with the following:
⢠the delay in compiling the text of the Report until after the reporting date has passed (i.e. after 30 June or 31 December). ⢠the lack of standard guidelines for Statutory Authorities’ financial statements. ⢠the delay involved in having financial statements approved by the Department of
Finance. ⢠the delay in certain instances in having the audited statements approved by the Auditor-General. ⢠the delay in certain instances of the Reports being printed within a reasonable
period of time.
The Committee draws particular attention to the lack of standard guidelines for financial statements for Statutory Authorities and the resultant delays in having these statements approved. The Committee recommends that the guidelines of the Joint Working Party be implemented as soon as possible with the concerns of the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations, as expressed in their Fifth Report
on Statutory Authorities of the Commonwealth, being taken into consideration. The Committee is aware of the pressures that Departments and Statutory Authorities operate under but believes that the priority given to producing Annual Reports is often not as great as it should be. The Committee strongly urges
Departments and Statutory Authorities to re-appraise their priorities to ensure that Annual Reports are produced within the relevant three or six month period as recommended by the Standing Committee on Finance and Government Operations in their Fifth Report.
DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT The Australian Ballet Foundation— Division 338— Subdivision 1— Item 01 The Committee was made aware, during the course of its hearings with the Australian Ballet Foundation, of a problem concerning the accountability of the Foundation in
using public monies. The Foundation is a company limited by guarantee and is
2 3
managed by a Board of Directors. The Government has no representation, either direct or through the Australia Council, on this Board. In 1981 the Foundation transferred $1.6m from its financial reserves of $2.5m, a proportion of which is public monies, to the Australian Ballet Development Fund to purchase a site for the headquarters of the Australian Ballet Company and the Australian Ballet School. Evidence was given to the Committee that by the end of 1983, the Australian Ballet Foundation expects to have reached a position of deficit of $460 000.
Because the Australian Ballet is funded by a single-line appropriation there is no effective external influence on the use to which public monies is put. The Australia Council has no effective role to play, and the Government is unwilling or unable to take responsibility for the use the Australian Ballet makes of these public monies. (This also applies to the Australian opera and the Elizabethan Trust Orchestra.)
National Library of Australia—Division 344 National Film Archive The Committee is concerned at the state of preservation of the collection of films and television programs at the National Library. In evidence before the Committee the
Director-General of the National Library, Mr H. Bryan, indicated that the Archive could not reach its goal of preservation in 1982-83 and that the completion of the overall program was in doubt by the year 2000. The Committee recommends that the necessary staff resources be made available to ensure that the program of preservation is completed by the year 2000.
Norfolk Island— Office of the Administrator— Division 337 The Committee draws attention to its Report to the Senate of May 1982 concerning the role of the Auditor-General in relation to the Norfolk Island Government. The Committee notes the Government is in the process of attempting to resolve the ambiguous relationship between the Auditor-General and the Government of Norfolk Island.
4. The Committee is concerned at the delay in the production of the Estimates Hansards and a consequent difficulty in finishing the Committee’s consideration of matters raised during its sittings. It recommends that the Government Printer take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that Estimates Committees have adequate time to use their Hansards in the compilation of their Reports.
5. Some written replies to questions are awaited and, upon receipt will be distributed to members of the Committee and, where appropriate, to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the Committee Hansard.
6. The Committee records its appreciation of the explanations provided by the Minister for Education and the officers of the various Departments who assisted during the examination.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
24
Estimates Committee B Minutes of Proceedings
/
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 12
THURSDAY, 26 AUGUST 1982
1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met at 9.33 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair. 2. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolution of 24 August 1982 relating to the reference to the Committee of the Particulars of Proposed
Expenditure 1982-83 and of Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1982 was reported.
3. ORDER OF EXAMINING ESTIMATES: The Committee agreed to first consider the Estimates of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment and the Department of Education on 7 September 1982 and the Department of Communications on 13 September 1982.
4. OTHER BUSINESS: The Chairman asked the Committee to direct any research requests or areas of interest to the Secretary.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.40 a.m. 6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Collard, Colston, Hearn and Martin.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
27
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 13
TUESDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 5.43 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate of 24 August 1982, the Committee would consider the following Departmental Estimates:
Division
Documents* Page No. Department Amount
$
B 48 270-284 Education .................................................................. 604 713 000
C 16 848-850 E d u c a t i o n .................................................................. 56 519 000
B 35 220-224 C o m m u n ica tio n s....................................................... 329 480 000
C 15 841-842 C om m u n ication s....................................................... 47 755 000
B 76 330-349 Home Affairs and E n v ir o n m e n t............................. 156 975 000
C 21 888-892 Home Affairs and E n v ir o n m e n t............................. 14 282 000
* D ocum ent B—‘Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983'. * D ocum ent C —‘Particulars of Certain Proposed E xpenditure in respect of the Y ear ending on 30 June 1983’.
and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance.
Page in Division
Document D* No. Department Amount
$
10 270-283 E d u c a t io n .................................................................................. 1095 078
8 220-222 C om m u n ication s....................................................................... 2 843 058
19 841 C om m u n ication s....................................................................... 6 000 000
12 330-336 Home Affairs and E n v ir o n m e n t............................................ 480 158
20 890 Home Affairs and E n v ir o n m e n t............................................ 10 000
* D ocum ent D —‘A dvance to the M inister for F inance—Statem ent of Heads of E xpenditure and the amounts charged th ereto pursuant tosection 36a o f the A u d i t A c t 1901, for the year ended 30 June 1982’.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Home Affairs and Environment— Dr D. F. McMichael, Secretary Mr A. W. McCasker, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr C. Stephens, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Territories, Co-ordination
and Management Division Mr B. W. Palmer, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Management Services Branch, Territories, Co-ordination and Management Division
28
Mr T. F. Fowler, Director, Finance and Services, Territories Co-ordination and Management Division Mr V. Mawhinney, Acting Director, Christmas Island Section, Territories, Co ordination and Management Division
Mr P. Molony, Acting Director, Norfolk Island Section, Territories, Co ordination and Management Division Mr G. Dempster, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Culture, Sport and Rec reation Division Mr P. Brettell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Sport and Recreation Branch, Cul
ture, Sport and Recreation Division Mr R. McArthur, Assistant Secretary, Heritage Branch, Culture, Sport and Recreation Division Mr P. Reece, Acting Assistant Secretary, Environment Programs Branch,
Environment Division Mr T. O’Brien, Director, Chemical Controls and Secretariat Section, Environ ment Division Mr G. Morvell, Co-ordination Officer, Environment Division
Mr P. Bridgewater, Director, Bureau of Flora and Fauna Mr E. Wigley, First Assistant Secretary, Bicentennial and Special Events Division Mr P. Ryan, Principal Executive Officer, Bicentennial and Special Events
Division Office of Women’s Affairs: Mr J. Wood, Senior Advisor Ms S. Randall, Executive Secretary, National Women’s Advisory Council
Australia Council: Dr T. Pascoe, Chairman Mr J. Kitney, Director, Finance and Administration Australian Ballet Foundation:
Mr P, Bahen, Administrator Australian Opera: Mr P. L, Veitch, General Manager Australian Elizabethan Theatre Trust:
Mr D. F. Grace, Financial Controller and Company Secretary Mr W, Reid, Director of Music and Principal Conductor Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority: Mr D. Chippendale, Assistant Executive Officer
National Institute of Dramatic Art: Miss E. Butcher, Administrator Australian Bicentennial Authority: Dr D. Armstrong, General Manager
Mr W. C. Fairbanks, Deputy General Manager Australian Film and Television School: Mr F. Morgan, Deputy Director Mr D. Berry, Executive Officer, Finance
Australian Film Commission: Mr J. Skrzynski, Chief Executive Mr B. Gittings, Secretary
2 9
Office of the Supervising Scientist: Dr G. Riley, Director, Alligator Rivers Region Research Institute Mr G. Charteris, Head, Co-ordination and Services Branch
Australian Institute of Sport: Mr D. Talbot, Executive Director Mr P. Bowman, Administrator
Australian Archives: Emeritus Professor R. G. Neale, Director-General Mr C. Pitson, Assistant Director-General, Business Management
Australian War Memorial: Mr B. Kelson, Assistant Director, Collections Mr M. Coley, Assistant Director, Management Services
National Library of Australia: Mr B. Yates, Acting Director-General Mr G. Clark, Assistant Director-General, Co-ordination and Management Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service:
Mr M. A. Hill, Assistant Director Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer Australian National Gallery: Mr J. Mollison, Director
Mr G. Andrews, Acting Secretary/Manager Mr M. Claasz, Acting Manager, Business and Finance Museum of Australia: Ms G. Carnegie, Executive Secretary Australian Heritage Commission:
Mr P. Cheah, Assistant Director Department o f Finance-Ms P. A. Lyndon, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 330-349—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document B) Divisions 888-892—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document
C)
Divisions 330-336 and 890—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document D) And Division 330 being considered by the Committee— 4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.05 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Collard (Chairman) and Senators Colston, Haines, Hearn, Martin and Teague. Senators Hamer, Mulvihill and Ryan also took part in the Committee’s proceedings.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
30
THE SENATE
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.04 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE F O R Y E A R E N D I N G 30 J U N E 1 982 — D E P A R T M E N T OF
COMMUNICATIONS.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Communications— Mr V. J. Kane, First Assistant Secretary, Space, Telecommunications and Postal Policy Division Mr P. B. Westerway, First Assistant Secretary, Broadcasting Division Mr R. T. Lord, First Assistant Secretary, Communications Development
Division Mr M. R. Ramsay, First Assistant Secretary, Radio Frequency Management Division Mr A. F. Guster, First Assistant Secretary, Corporate Policy and Projects
Division Mr R, N, Smith, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr J. McLean, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Regulatory Branch, Space, Telecommunications and Postal Policy Division
Mr P. Credtin, Senior Engineer, Communications Development Division Mr J. Coleman, Secretary to the Postal Inquiry Mr M. Hanna, Senior Research Analyst, Telecom Inquiry Mr R. Sellers, Administrative Officer, Telecom Inquiry Australian Broadcasting Tribunal:
Mr B. Connolly, Secretary Mr D. Gilham, Acting Senior Executive Officer Mr M. Payton, Finance Officer Special Broadcasting Service:
Mr R. Fowell, Executive Director Mr R. Stokes, Director, Administration Mr M. Britton, Director, Finance Mr D. Forsyth, Estimates Officer Australian Telecommunications Commission:
Mr E. R. Banks, Director, Business Development Mr R. Liggett, Manager, Financial Planning Mr L. D. Sebire, Superintending Engineer, Broadcasting Australian Postal Commission:
Mr T, Clarke, Acting Assistant General Manager, Finance
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 14
31
Mr J. Power, Acting Manager, Marketing Control Australian Broadcasting Commission: Mr J. Fitzmaurice, Acting Assistant General Manager, Television Mr K. Mackriell, Assistant General Manager, Radio
Mr W. E. White, Acting Assistant General Manager, Management Services Mr A. Coulter, Acting Controller, Finance Mr K. Bourke, Controller, Engineering Overseas Telecommunications Commission: Mr J. Spencer, Acting Director, Accounts Department o f Finance—
Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 220-224—Department of Communications (Document B) Divisions 841-842—Department of Communications (Document C)
Divisions 220-222 and 841—Department of Communications (Document D) And the Committee, having concluded its consideration of Division 222 suspended its hearings of the Department of Communications till a later hour of the day.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDI TURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Home Affairs and Environment— Dr D. F. McMichael, Secretary Mr E. Hanfield, Administrator, Cocos (Keeling) Islands Mr B. Palmer, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Management Services
Branch Mr T. F. Fowler, Director, Finance and Services Mr M. Martin, Acting Chief Internal Auditor Mr V. Mawhinney, Acting Director, Christmas Island Section Department o f Finance—
Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Division 336—Cocos (Keeling) Islands—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document B)
Division 888—3 Cocos (Keeling) Islands—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document C) Division 336—Cocos (Keeling) Islands—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Division of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDI TURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS.
Appearing: See Item 2 above.
32
Consideration resumed of the following Divisions of the Department of Communications: Divisions 220-224—Department of Communications (Document B) Divisions 841-842—Department of Communications (Document C)
Divisions 220-222 and 841—Department of Communications (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Communications.
5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDI TURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Education— Mr D. M. Morrison, Deputy Secretary Mr R, N. Allen, Director, Office of Australian Capital Territory Further Education
Mr J. J. Wilson, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Allocation and Transition Education Division Mr J. Budby, Chairman, National Aboriginal Education Committee Mr E. L. Charles, Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch
Mr D. Francis, Acting Assistant Secretary, Curriculum Development Branch Mr G. J. Franklin, Acting Assistant Secretary, School and Aboriginal Students Assistance Branch Mr P. B. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination
Branch Miss J. L. Miller, Assistant Secretary, International Education Branch Mr P. C. Maher, Assistant Secretary, Departmental Services Branch Mr B, C. Milligan, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group
Mr E. S. Rolfe, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr G. D. Fowler, Director, Language Teaching Branch Mr D. T. M. Green, Director, Parliamentary Liaison and Public Relations Branch
Mr N. Neal, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch Mr E. Pickering, Director, Transitional Education Branch Mr J. W. Morey, Director, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr D. Moss, Director Tertiary Students Assistance Branch
Mr R. Moss, Director, School and Aboriginal Students Assistance Branch Mr J. Shipway, Senior Adviser, ADP Section Commonwealth Schools Commission: Dr P. Tannock, Chairman
Mr I. Hossack, Secretary Mr R. McNamara, Assistant Secretary, Specific Purpose Programs Branch Mr S. Thompson, Assistant Secretary, General Resources Programs Branch Mr R. Cox, Chief Executive Officer, Finance and Legislation Section
Mr D. Mackie, Chief Executive Officer, Operations and Administration Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission: Mr L. Hennessy, First Assistant Commissioner Mr R. H. Arthur, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Branch
33
Dr J. Grant, Assistant Commissioner, Technical and Further Education Branch Mr R. H. Grahame, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Executive Branch Mr R. M. Walker, Director, Finance and Management Services A.C.T. Schools Authority:
Mr R, P. Sadler, Acting Assistant Chief Education Officer Miss T. C. Reilly, Assistant Director, Finance and Services Australian National University: Mr E. R. Boardman, Bursar Canberra College of Advanced Education:
Mr G. Eadie, Acting Registrar Department o f Finance— Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 270-284—Department of Education (Document B) Divisions 848-850—Department of Education (Document C) Divisions 270-283—Department of Education (Document D) And Division 278 being considered by the Committee— 6. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee agreed to adjourn the hearings of the Committee till an hour and place to be advised by the Secretary.
7. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.17 p.m. 8. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Collard (Chairman) and Senators Colston, Haines, Hearn, Martin and Teague.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
34
THE SENATE
TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Home Affairs and Environment— Dr D. F. McMichael, Secretary Australia Council: Mr R. Taylor, Deputy Executive Officer
Australian Ballet Foundation: Mr P. Bahen, Administrator Department o f Finance— Ms P. A. Lyndon, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration:
Division 338-01 —The Australian Ballet—Department of Home Affairs and Environ ment (Document B) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Aus tralian Ballet Division of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Education— Mr D. M. Morrison, Deputy Secretary Mr R. N. Allen, Director, Office of Australian Capital Territory Further Education
Mr J. J. Wilson, First Assistant Secretary, Resource Allocation and Transition Education Division Mr J. Budby, Chairman, National Aboriginal Education Committee Mr E. L. Charles, Assistant Secretary, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch
Mr D. Francis, Acting Assistant Secretary, Curriculum Development Branch Mr G. J. Franklin, Acting Assistant Secretary, School and Aboriginal Students Assistance Branch Mr P. B. Kearns, Assistant Secretary, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination
Branch Miss J. L. Miller, Assistant Secretary, International Education Branch
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 15
35
Mr P. C. Maher, Assistant Secretary, Departmental Services Branch Mr B. C. Milligan, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr E. S. Rolfe, Assistant Secretary, Education Planning Group Mr G. D. Fowler, Director, Language Teaching Branch Mr D. T. M. Green, Director, Parliamentary Liaison and Public Relations
Branch Mr E. Pickering, Director, Transition Education Branch Mr J. W. Morey, Director, Territorial Policy and Co-ordination Branch Mr D, Moss, Director, Tertiary Students Assistance Branch Mr R. Moss, Director, School and Aboriginal Students Assistance Branch Mr. J. Shipway, Senior Adviser, ADP Section Commonwealth Schools Commission:
Dr P. Tannock, Chairman Mr I. Hossack, Secretary Mr R. McNamara, Assistant Secretary, Specific Purpose Programs Branch Mr S. Thompson, Assistant Secretary, General Resources Programs Branch Mr R. Cox, Chief Executive Officer, Finance and Legislation Section Mr D. Mackie, Chief Executive Officer, Operations and Administration Commonwealth Tertiary Education Commission:
Mr L. Hennessy, First Assistant Commissioner Mr R. H. Arthur, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Branch Dr J. Grant, Assistant Commissioner, Technical and Further Education Branch
Mr R. H. Grahame, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Executive Branch Mr R. M. Walker, Director, Finance and Management Services ACT Schools Authority: Mr R. P. Sadler, Acting Assistant Chief Education Officer
Miss T. C. Reilly, Assistant Director, Finance and Services Australian National University: Mr E. R. Boardman, Bursar Canberra College of Advanced Education:
Mr G. Eadie, Acting Registrar Department o f Finance—â Ms P. A. Lyndon, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division Consideration resumed of the following Divisions of the Department of Education:
Divisions 270-284—Department of Education (Document B) Divisions 848-850—Department of Education (Document C) Divisions 270-283—Department of Education (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Education. 4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.50 p.m. 5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Collard (Chairman) and Senators Colston, Haines, Hearn, Martin and Teague.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
36
THE SENATE
THURSDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Collard) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982 83 AND EXPEN DITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE FOR YEAR ENDED 30 JUNE 1982—DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, Minister for Education, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Home Affairs and Environment— Dr D. F. McMichael, Secretary Territories, Co-ordination and Management Division Mr D. Lawrence, Director, Northern Territory Section
Mr B, W. Palmer, Assistant Secretary, Co-ordination and Management Branch Mr T. F. Fowler, Director, Finance and Services Mr F. Brice, Assistant Secretary, Northern Territory and Norfolk Island
Branch Mr P. Molony, Acting Director, Norfolk Island Section Mr V. Mawhinney, Acting Director, Christmas Island Section Culture, Sport and Recreation Division
Mr G. Dempster, Acting First Assistant Secretary Mr P. Brett ell, Acting Assistant Secretary, Sport and Recreation Branch Mr R. McArthur, Assistant Secretary, Heritage Branch Mr B. Smith, Acting Assistant Secretary, Cultural Affairs Branch Environment Division
Mr K. Thompson, First Assistant Secretary Mr G. Morvell, Co-ordination Officer Bureau of Flora and Fauna: Mr. P. Bridgewater, Director
Bicentennial and Special Events: Mr E. Wigley, First Assistant Secretary Mr P. Ryan, Principal Executive Officer Christmas Island Administration:
Mr T. Campbell, Official Secretary Office of Women’s Affairs: Mr J. Wood, Senior Advisor Ms M. McMahon, National Women’s Advisory Council
Australian Archives: Emeritus Professor R. G. Neale, Director-General Mr C, Pitson, Assistant Director-General, Business and Management
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 16
37
Australian War Memorial: Mr B. Kelson, Assistant Director, Collections Mr M. Coley, Assistant Director, Management Services
National Library of Australia: Mr H. Bryan, Director-General Mr G. Clark, Assistant Director-General, Co-ordination and Management Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service:
Mr M. A. Hill, Assistant Director Mr J. Crennan, Principal Executive Officer Australian National Gallery: Mr J. Mollinson, Director
Mr G. Andrews, Acting Secretary-Manager Mr M. Claasz, Acting Manager, Business and Finance Museum of Australia: Ms G. Carnegie, Executive Secretary Australian Heritage Commission:
Mr M, Bourke, Director Department o f Finance— Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer Consideration resumed of the following Divisions of the Department of Home Affairs and Environment:
Divisions 330-349—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document B) Divisions 888-892—Department of Home Affairs and Environment (Document C) Divisions 330-336 and 890—Department of Home Affairs and Environment
(Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure and Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Home Affairs and Environment.
3. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee considered matters for inclusion in the draft Report. 4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.27 p.m. 5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator
Collard (Chairman) and Senators Colston, Haines, Martin and Teague. Senator Mulvihill also took part in the Committee’s proceedings.
S. J. COLLARD Chairman
38
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C REPORT TO THE SENATE
I
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee C has the honour to present its Report to the Senate,
1. On 24 August 1982, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Year 1982-83, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1982 relating to the following Departments:
Prime Minister and Cabinet Treasury Finance Administrative Services
2. The Committee has considered the Estimates and received explanations from the Minister for Finance, Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, and officers of the departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee is included in this report, and the Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee is
presented for the information of the Senate in its consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83.
3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given to supply additional writ ten information to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be presented for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Com mittee’s hearings.
4. The Committee met on six occasions, for a total of eighteen and a half hours.
5. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters arising from its consideration of the Estimates: (a) Computer facilities available to the Department of Administrative Services are currently operating at only 50 per cent of capacity. In a written response to
the Committee, the department advised that the systems for which the com puter is required have only been partially implemented. The department added that it is anticipated that the total processing capacity of the computer will be consumed not later than the end of 1983. The Committee is concerned at the
cost of computing facilities and intends to follow up the matter of computer usage. (b) The Committee noted that the Department of Administrative Services pro vided funds for a political interchange program. In examining this item it
appeared that a large proportion of the funds were being devoted to adminis tration of the program. Subsequent written response by the Department has satisfied the Committee that this is not true with regard to this program. The Committee will however remain constantly alert to ensure that the expense of
administration of such schemes does not become excessive. (c) The Committee experienced some problems in obtaining information, requested of the Department of Administrative Services, with regard to a post budget survey. The document was not provided to each member of the Com
mittee but rather was lodged in the Parliamentary Library. The Committee considers this approach unacceptable given the limited period in which esti mates must be considered and the need for each Committee member to receive information in a convenient and timely fashion.
41
(d) The Committee sought and was granted an extension of time to report to the Senate. The extension was required to enable consideration of two postponed items. Both matters were subsequently dealt with by the Committee.
AUSTIN LEWIS
14 October 1982 Chairman
4 2
Estimates Committee C Minutes of Proceedings
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 8
TUESDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 8.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 6. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. DEPARTMENT OF PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET. Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f the Prime Minister and Cabinet— Mr. A. D. Rose, Deputy Secretary Mr B. F. Cox, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr J, G. Hinton, Assistant Secretary, Services Branch
Office of National Assessments: Mr A. D. McLennan, Deputy Director-General Mr G. C. O’Hare, Acting Executive Officer Commonwealth Ombudsman:
Mr C. T. Hunt, Senior Assistant Ombudsman Mr P. Gamp, Administrative Officer
Australian Science and Technology Council: Dr B. S. Middleton, Secretary Dr Î. M. Venning, Project Officer
Auditor-General’s Office: Mr A. A. Taylor, First Assistant Auditor-General Mr B. H. Farrow, Acting Assistant Auditor-General Mr A. Solomon, Acting Executive Officer (Finance) Public Service Board:
Mr B. R. Hamilton, Secretary, Public Service Board Mr I. T. Allen, Assistant Commissioner, Management Branch Mr B. A. Leahy, Director, Training Programs Section Mr R. M. Wedgwood, Director, Finance and Services
Mr K. S. Stokes, Assistant Director, Finance and Accounts Department o f Finance— Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division.
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:
Document B*
Division 500—Administrative .....................................................
Division 504—Special Purpose Flights in RAAF and Department of
$
15 708 200
Aviation Aircraft .
Division 505—Official Establishments
3 765 000 2 655 500
4 5
$
Division 506—Governor-General’s Office .................................. 1 196 100
Division 511 —Office of National Assessments ............................. 2 178 000
Division 512—Commonwealth O m b u d sm an .................................. 1 824 000
Division 513—Australian Science and Technology Council . . . 604 000 Division 515—Auditor-General’s Office ....................................... 16 867 000
Division 516—Public Service Board ............................................ 23 245 200
Document C* Division 938—Capital Works and Services .................................. 98 000
Division 942—Auditor-General’s Office ....................................... 42 000
Advance to the Minister for Finance* Division 500—Administrative ..................................................... 187 531
Division 505—Official E stablishm ents............................................ 40 225
Division 506—Governor-General’s Office .................................. 5 606
Division 511 —Office of National Assessments ............................. 29 898
Division 515—Auditor-General’s Office ....................................... 13 357
Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.15 p.m. 4. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee, except Senator Gietzelt, attended.
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
* Document B—Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending 30 June 1983. *Document C—Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the Year ending 30 June 1983.
*Advance to the Minister for Finance—Statement of Heads of Expenditure and the amounts charged thereto pursuant to section 36a of the Audit Act 1901, for the Year ended 30 June 1982.
4 6
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 9
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING OF COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 10.32 a.m. in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f the Treasury·— Mr J. D. C. C. Moore, Deputy Secretary (General) Mr J. Fraser, Assistant Secretary, Foreign Investment Division Mr A. Morony, Acting Assistant Secretary, Revenue, Loans and Investment
Division Mr G. Crawford, Acting Assistant Secretary, Revenue, Loans and Investment Division Mr N. Stuparich, Acting Assistant Secretary, Financial Institutions Division Mr T, O’Brien, Chief Finance Officer, General Financial and Economic Policy
Division Mr J. Eyers, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Overseas Economic Relations Division Mr A, D. Ross, Chief Finance Officer, Resources Allocation and Development
Division Mr S. Curley, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Office of the Insurance Commissioner Mr B. McLennan, Superintendent, Royal Australian Mint
Mr R. Q. Freney, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr T. L. Jobling, Director, Finance and Services Section Mr D. W. Holmesby, Finance Officer, Finance and Services Section Mr G. Burns, Assistant Director, Personnel and Establishments Section
Mr G. Walker, Director, Operations, Systems and ADP Section Mr A. Auzins, Assistant Director, Operations, Systems and ADP Section Australian Taxation Office: Mr C. Rennie, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Revenue and Taxation Analy
sis Branch, Revenue and International Division Mr M. J. Carmody, Assistant Commissioner, Legislation Branch, Policy and Legislation Division Mr J. J. Daly, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Management Division
Mr D. J. Cortese, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Branch, Management Division Mr P. J. McCann, Inspector, Finance Resources Branch, Management Division Australian Bureau of Statistics:
Mr W. McLennan, First Assistant Statistician, Co-ordination and Manage ment Division
THE SENATE
4 7
Mr D. Anderson, First Assistant Statistician, Economic Accounts Division Mr J. Maurer, Assistant Statistician, Management Services Branch Mr B. Crook, Assistant Statistician, Operations and Software Branch Mr D. Leaver, Assistant Statistician, Statistical Services Branch Mr M. Booth, Assistant Statistician, User Services Branch Mr K. Blackburn, Assistant Statistician, National Accounts Branch Mr L. Clements, Assistant Statistician, Public Finance and Prices Branch Mr R. Green, Assistant Statistician, Production and Distribution Branch Mr G. Sarossy, Assistant Statistician, Manpower Branch Mr T. Skinner, Acting Assistant Statistician, Demography and Social Branch Mr F. Parsons, Acting Assistant Statistician, Manpower Branch Mr J. Cornish, Assistant Statistician, Population Census Branch Mr M. Sattler, Director, Information Services Section Mr B. Doyle, Director, Evaluation and Field Operations Section Mr A. Vidler, Acting Director, Finance and General Services Section Ms M. Jones, Senior Inspector, Finance and Accounts Department o f Finance—
Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations, Accounting and Supply Division Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting Operations, Accounting and Supply Division The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:
Document B $
Division 670—Administrative ..................................................... 29 384 800
Division 674—Taxation Boards of Review .................................. 325 200
Document C Division 976—Capital Works and Services .................................. 811 000
Division 977—Payments to or for the States and the Northern Territory .................................................................................. 658 628 000
Division 978—Other S e rv ic e s.......................................................... 1 500 000
Advance to the Minister for Finance Division 670—Administrative ..................................................... 2 832 924
Consideration of Division 978 Item 01, Special Information Campaign, was postponed. Consideration of the particulars of Divisions 670, 674, 967, 977 and 670 (Advance to the Minister for Finance) was concluded.
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered: Document B Division 677—Australian Taxation Office .................................. 275 997 000
Document C Division 979—Australian Taxation Office .................................. 11 600 000
Senator Gietzelt moved the following motion— “That having regard to the inability of the officers to answer adequately or to ex plain the deficiencies in the Australian Taxation Office suggested by the Treasurer, the Committee’s consideration of the estimate dealing with the Australian Taxation Office be postponed until the Treasurer has had an opportunity to report to the Par
liament and the House of Representatives and the Senate discuss his statement.’’
4 8
Debate ensued.
The Committee divided.
Ayes—3—Senators Gietzelt, McLaren and Robert Ray. Noes—2—The Chairman and Senator Martyr.
The Resolution being agreed to, Divisions 677 and 979 were postponed until after con sideration of all other Particulars of Proposed Expenditure referred to Estimates Com mittee C.
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:
Document B $
Division 678---- Australian Bureau of Statistics .......................... 86 744 000
Document C Division 980—Australian Bureau of Statistics ............................. 6 686 000
Advance to the Minister for Finance Division 678—Australian Bureau of Statistics ............................. 69 776
Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
3. DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE: Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f Finance— J. R. Bennett, Assistant Secretary, Management Services A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch P. N. Atcherley, First Assistant Secretary, General Expenditure Division G. R. Potts, Assistant Secretary, Development Branch
J. R. Rae, Assistant Secretary, Rural and Commerce Branch B. J. Tierney, Director, ADP Operations P. Hunt, Chief Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch A. Rowe, Chief Finance Officer, Works and Territories Branch A. L. Ray, Acting Director, Finance and General Management Services Branch
K. J. Howman, Senior Finance Officer, Transport and Communications Branch C. W. Patch, Senior Finance Officer, Employment and Government Branch D. K. Wallace, Chief Finance Officer, Accounting Operations Branch A. Agafonoff, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Policy Branch
Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office: R. A. McKillop, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administration K. J. McCullagh, Director, Services R. Jackson, Finance Officer Superannuation Fund Investment Trust:
J. Kane, Manager, Policy, Program and Management Branch The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:
Document B $
Division 304—Administrative ...................................................... 40 935 600
Division 306—Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office 7 936 400 Division 308—Superannuation Fund Investment Trust . . . . 917000 Document C Division 864—Capital Works and Services .................................. 1 314 000
4 9
Division 865—Payments to or for the States and the Northern Terr itory ............................................................................................ 9812 000
Division 866—Other S e rv ic e s.......................................................... 2 114 000
Advance to the Minister for Finance Division 304—Administrative ..................................................... 11 067
Division 306—Australian Government Retirement Benefits Office 11 968 Division 308—Superannuation Fund Investment Trust . . . . 37 540
Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
4. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f Administrative Services— Mr Î. B. MacDonald, Deputy Secretary, Management Services Division Mr A. A. Hillier, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr S. Wenger, Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch, Man
agement Services Division Mr I. D. Gillespie, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division Mr D. M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Division
Miss Î. P. Lance, M.B.E., Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial Services Branch, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr Î. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Honours Secretariat Mr W. D. Kennedy, O.B.E., Surveyor-General, Australian Survey Office Mr P. J. Galvin, Director of Property, Property Directorate Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage Division Mr J. Lleonart, First Assistant Secretary, Information Services Division Mr G. A. Low, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing Division Brigadier P. M. Jeffery, A.M. M.C., Head, Protective Services Co-ordination
Centre Mr G. V. Halliday, First Assistant Secretary, Public Order and Police Affairs Division Mr A. Bain, First Assistant Secretary, Industries Assistant Division Australian Federal Police:
Mr J. C. Johnson, Q.P.M., Acting Commissioner Commonwealth Grants Commission: Mr A. A. Glasson, Secretary Australian Electoral Office:
Mr H. R. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr E. Klatt, Acting Director, Management Services Mr B. R. Nugent, Acting Assistant Secretary, Development Mr E. A. Gladwin, Acting Assistant Director, Finance and General Remuneration Tribunal:
Mr A. A. Shakespeare, Secretary I n d u s t r i e s A s s is ta n c e C o m m is s io n :
M r A . G . K o u k o u la s , A s s is t a n t C o m m is s io n e r , S e r v ic e s B r a n c h
M r K . B. M o u r a n t , A c ti n g D i r e c t o r , M a n a g e m e n t S e rv ic e s
50
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman
Department o f Finance— M r A . C . H a r r i s , A s s is t a n t S e c r e t a r y , A c c o u n t i n g O p e r a t i o n s , A c c o u n t i n g a n d
S u p p ly D iv is io n
and considered:
Document B $
Division 130—Administrative ...................................................... 313 423 600
Division 132—Remuneration Tribunal ....................................... 432 000
Division 134—Petroleum Products Pricing A u th o r ity .................... 827 500 Division 136—Industries Assistance Commission ........................ 8 712 000
Division 138—Australian Federal P o l i c e ....................................... 101 349 300
Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.43 p.m. 6. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee, except Senator Bjelke-Petersen, attended. Senator Walsh also attended.
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
51
TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 8.00 p.m. in the Senate Chamber. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f Administrative Services— Mr Î. B. MacDonald, Deputy Secretary, Management Services Division Mr A. A. Hillier, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr S. Wenger, Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch, Man
agement Services Division Mr I. D. Gillespie, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division Mr D. M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Division Miss Î. P. Lance, M.B.E., Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial
Services Branch, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr Î. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Honours Secretariat Mr W. D. Kennedy, O.B.E., Surveyor-General, Australian Survey Office Mr P. J. Galvin, Director of Property, Property Directorate Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage Division Mr J. Lleonart, First Assistant Secretary, Information Services Division Mr G. A. Low, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing Division Brigadier P. M. Jeffery, A.M. M.C., Head, Protective Services Co-ordination
Centre Mr G. V. Halliday, First Assistant Secretary, Public Order and Police Affairs Division Mr A. Bain, First Assistant Secretary, Industries Assistance Division Australian Federal Police:
Mr J. C. Johnson, Q.P.M., Acting Commissioner Commonwealth Grants Commission: Mr A. A. Glasson, Secretary Australian Electoral Office:
Mr H. R. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr E. Klatt, Acting Director, Management Services Mr B. R. Nugent, Acting Assistant Secretary, Development Mr E, A. Gladwin, Acting Assistant Director, Finance and General Remuneration Tribunal:
Mr A. A. Shakespeare, Secretary
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
No. 10
I n d u s t r i e s A s s is ta n c e C o m m is s io n :
M r A . G . K o u k o u la s , A s s is t a n t C o m m is s io n e r , S e r v ic e s B r a n c h
M r K . B. M o u r a n t , A c tin g D i r e c t o r , M a n a g e m e n t S e rv ic e s
52
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered:
Document B $
Division 139—Australian Bureau of Criminal Intelligence . . . 925 700 Division 140—Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Services . 34 693 800 Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.05 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended. Senator Coleman also attended.
Department o f Finance— M r A . C . H a r r i s , A s s i s t a n t S e c r e t a r y , A c c o u n t i n g O p e r a t i o n s , A c c o u n t i n g a n d
S u p p ly D iv is io n
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
53
TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee met in private session at 12.17 p.m. in Senate Committee Room No. 5. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. CONSIDERATION OF ESTIMATES: The Committee discussed the procedure to be followed in consideration of the remaining Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and the Particulars of Expenditure postponed by the Committee.
It was unanimously agreed, on the motion of Senator Robert Ray, that the motion moved by Senator Gietzelt on 13 September 1982, relating to the Australian Taxation Office, be rescinded.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 12.45 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended.
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
No. 11
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
54
THE SENATE
TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 8.00 p.m. in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES:
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the following departmental officers:
Department o f Administrative Services— Mr Î. B. MacDonald, Deputy Secretary, Management Services Division Mr A. A. Hillier, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr S. Wenger, Assistant Secretary, Finance and General Services Branch, Man
agement Services Division Mr I. D. Gillespie, Director, Estimates and Expenditure Control Section, Finance and General Services Branch, Management Services Division Mr D. M. Lenihan, First Assistant Secretary, Secretariat and Policy Division
Miss Î. P. Lance, M.B.E., Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary and Ministerial Services Branch, Secretariat and Policy Division Mr Î. E. Keen, Acting Assistant Secretary, Honours Secretariat Mr W. D. Kennedy, O.B.E., Surveyor-General, Australian Survey Office
Mr P. J. Galvin, Director of Property, Property Directorate Mr B. E. Hinchcliffe, First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Storage Division Mr J. Lleonart, First Assistant Secretary, Information Services Division Mr G. A. Low, First Assistant Secretary, Purchasing Division
Brigadier P. M. Jeffery, A.M., M.C., Head, Protective Services Co-Ordination Centre Mr G. V. Halliday, First Assistant Secretary, Public Order and Police Affairs Division
Mr A. Bain, First Assistant Secretary, Industries Assistance Division Australian Federal Police: Mr J. C. Johnson, Q.P.M., Acting Commissioner Commonwealth Grants Commission:
Mr A. A. Glasson, Secretary Australian Electoral Office: Mr H. R. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Operations Mr E. Klatt, Acting Director, Management Services
Mr B. R. Nugent, Acting Assistant Secretary, Development Mr E. A. Gladwin, Acting Assistant Director, Finance and General Remuneration Tribunal: Mr A. A. Shakespeare, Secretary
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
No. 12
I n d u s tr ie s A s s is t a n c e C o m m is s io n :
M r A . G . K o u k o u l a s , A s s is t a n t C o m m is s io n e r , S e rv ic e s B r a n c h
M r K . B. M o u r a n t , A c ti n g D i r e c t o r , M a n a g e m e n t S e r v ic e s
55
The following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered: Document B $
Division 155—Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services L i m i t e d ............................................................... 16 795 000
Division 160—Grants C om m ission....................................... 1 406 100
Division 161—Australian Electoral Office ........................ 22 136 000
Document C Division 811 —Capital Works and Services ........................ 41 302 200
Division 813—Other Services ............................................ 861 800
Division 814—Industries Assistance Commission . . . . 96000
Advance to the Minister for Finance Division 130—Administrative ........................................... 1 317 902
Division 138—Australian Federal P o l i c e ............................. 982 145
Division 140—Parliamentary and Ministerial Staff and Ser vices .................................................................................. I 538 150
Division 155—Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services L i m i t e d ............................................................... 834 000
Division 160—Grants C om m ission....................................... 7 391
Division 813—Other Services ........................................... 36 032
Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 9.25 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended. Senator Coleman also attended.
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
Department o f Finance— M r A . C . H a r r i s , A s s is ta n t S e c r e t a r y , A c c o u n t i n g O p e r a t i o n s , A c c o u n ti n g a n d
S u p p l y D iv is io n
5 6
THE SENATE
MONDAY, 11 OCTOBER 1982
1. MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE: The Committee met in public session at 8.05 p.m. in Senate Committee Rooms 1 and 2. The Chairman, Senator Lewis, took the Chair.
2. CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEE: The Chairman informed the Committee that Senator Bjelke-Petersen had been discharged from the Committee and Senator Reid appointed.
3. THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY: Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance, accompanied by the fol lowing departmental officers:
Australian Taxation Office: Mr W. J. O’Reilly, C.B., O.B.E., Commissioner of Taxation Mr T. P. W. Boucher, Second Commissioner of Taxation Mr D. J. Black, Second Commissioner of Taxation
Mr C. Rennie, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Revenue and Taxation Analysis Branch, Revenue and International Division Mr J. J. Daly, Senior Assistant Commissioner, Management Division Mr M. J. Carmody, Assistant Commissioner, Legislation Branch, Policy and
Legislation Division Mr D. J. Cortese, Assistant Commissioner, Resources Branch, Management Division Mr P. J. McCann, Inspector, Finance Resources Branch, Management Division Department o f Finance—
Mr D. K. Wallace, Acting Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch.
The following Particulars of Expenditure were called upon by the Chairman and considered: Document B Division 677—Australian Taxation Office $275 997 000
Document C Division 979—Australian Taxation Office $11 600 000 Consideration of these Particulars of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
Consideration resumed of postponed Division 978, Item 01, Special Information Cam paign. Consideration of this Particular of Proposed Expenditure was concluded.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.13 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: All members of the Committee attended. Senators Evans and Walsh also attended.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE C
No. 13
AUSTIN LEWIS Chairman
57
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee D has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 24 August 1982, the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82, for the following Departments: Defence
Defence Support Foreign Affairs Immigration and Ethnic Affairs 2. The Committee considered the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations from the Minister for Finance, Senator the Hon. Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, the Minis ter for Education, Senator the Hon. Peter Baume, the Minister for Social Security, Senator the Hon. F. W. Chaney, the Minister for Veterans Affairs, Senator the Hon. Tony Messner, and officers of the departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee are presented for the information of the Senate in connection with its consideration of Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83. 3. During the hearing of evidence, undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate, and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.
4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters aris ing from its consideration of the Estimates:
Department of Defence and Defence Support:
i. The Committee received information on the development of the Laser Air borne Depth Sounder by the Defence Research Centre at Salisbury. The Depart ment of Defence Support informed the Committee that the world-wide sales poten tial of this system had been recognised, and that an agreement was currently in
preparation which would provide for royalty payments to the Commonwealth from eventual sales when the system came into commercial production.
ii. The Committee believes it to be important, having regard to the xerography experience, that Australia capitalize on initiatives undertaken by national research organizations.
in. Information was received on the continuing delays experienced in making the RAN’s only oceanographic ship, HMAS Cook, ready for operational service. The Committee emphasises the importance, in view of the research requirements of the newly-claimed 200-nautical mile zone, and the need to capitalize on that, of
making available to those able to use them all possible facilities. When HMAS Cook becomes operational, her capabilities will be allocated to the RAN Research Lab oratory, the Defence Science and Technology Organization, and the Department of Science and Technology for use.
iv. In response to a question relating to the report presented to the General Assembly of the United Nations in October 1981, “The Relationship between Dis armament and Development”, the Department of Defence stated that the Defence
61
Force provided significant assistance to the civil community through services such as search and rescue, support for customs and migration policies, mapping, hy drography and disaster relief. The Committee is concerned that the problems revealed by the responses to its questions relating to HMAS Cook may be seriously reducing the RAM’s ability to carry out hydrographic work.
v. The Committee’s examination revealed that the Department of Defence Support had not been involved in planning for construction of a ship for Antarctic transport and research. In view of the urgency of the requirement for an Australian ship to replace the chartered vessels which have hitherto formed the sole transport
link with the Australian Antarctic Territory, and in view of the desirability of the ship being built in Australia and crewed by the RAN, the Committee emphasises the need for the Department of Defence Support to be more closely involved with the project. In recommending this we hope there will be no further delay in pro ceeding with the project.
vi. During its examination of Department of Defence estimates, the Com mittee attempted to obtain information on the lessons to be drawn from the Falkland Islands campaign for Australian Defence Force capabilities. The re sponses from Departmental representatives at the hearing on 9 September 1982 were not especially helpful in this respect, but later Committee members had the benefit of an excellent, though informal, briefing on the matter from the Chief of Joint Operations and Plant, Rear-Admiral I. H. Richards, RAN.
vii. In relation to acquisition of the FA-18 Hornet, the Committee was told that a reduction in the number of those aircraft procured by the United States Navy would have a substantial effect on their cost to Australia. Under the memorandum of understanding for the FA-18 procurement program, Australia must pay the same
price for the aircraft as the United States Government pays. If the US Navy were to order significantly fewer than the originally projected 1,366, the cost per aircraft would rise substantially. Australia is committed to buying the FA-18 unless the total acquired by the US Navy falls below 200. The Committee was assured by the De
partment of Defence that the essential protection for Australia against excessive cost increases is the United States Government’s own interest in acquiring the air craft at a reasonable cost, and our own ability to withdraw from the order if the cost
becomes unduly high. The estimated $2,430 million Australia was expected to pay for 75 aircraft has already been significantly increased by the 20% devaluation of the Australian dollar against the US dollar since August 1981. Given that by 1983-84, projected spending on the FA-18 procurement will almost equal the total spent on all new Defence equipment in 1981 82, it is clear that the cost of the FA-18 pro curement between 1983-84 and 1989-90 will impose great strains on the Budget. Virtual doubling of the proportion of Defence expenditure allocated to capital equipment would achieve the 25% goal set by the Government in early 1980, but whether this goal is feasible might be a matter for examination at future Committee hearings.
viii. The cost of spare parts acquired subsequently to the actual aircraft should also be kept under review at future hearings.
ix. The Committee appreciates the action of the Minister for Defence in mak ing available to it copies of the 1981-82 Defence Report in advance of its being tabled in Parliament. However, it is regrettable that this report, in a departure from the practice of previous years, does not include estimates relating to the forthcom ing year.
6 2
Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs:
x. The Committee’s examination of the item providing funds for coastal sur veillance by this Department revealed an inadequate benefit for the Department for the sums involved. The Committee recommends that the operations in relation to the aerial surveillance of the refugee approaches to Darwin should not be a charge
against the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs. xi. The Committee questioned the cost of providing multi-cultural television and broadcasting services to Adelaide. The proposal to provide these services from Sydney is estimated to cost about $lm. Other information available to the Com
mittee reveals that this could be provided at a cost of $150,000 using existing ser vices. The Committee is concerned that the proposal to provide these services was not followed by a thorough exploration of the different ways this could be achieved.
xii. The Committee notes its concern as to whether there is sufficient staff in the Department, particularly in some overseas posts, and in overseeing illegal immi grants, to carry out all its very extensive responsibilities.
5. The Committee records its appreciation of the evidence given by the Ministers and officers of the several Departments whose estimates the Committee considered. 6. The Committee wishes to thank those officers of the Senate who assisted it for their diligence. It is to be noted that the expertise of the Committee can be increased if
there is continuity of the staff of the Committee.
14 October 1982
B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman
Estimates Committee D Minutes of Proceedings
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 10
THURSDAY, 26 AUGUST 1982
1. PRIVATE MEETING: The Committee met at 9.35 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.
2. DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS— HEARING DATE:
The Committee conceded the request of the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs to be heard on Thursday, 16 September 1982, because a conference in Sydney of Commonwealth and State Ministers for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs on 9 and 10 September made it most difficult for officers of the Department to appear before the
Committee on either of those two days.
3. D EPA RTM EN TS OF D EFEN C E, D EFEN CE SUPPORT AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS:
It was agreed to hear the Department of Defence, Defence Support, and Foreign Affairs consecutively, beginning on Thursday, 9 September 1982, at 1.30 p.m., and con tinuing, if necessary, on Friday, 10 September 1982.
4. APPROACH TO QUESTIONING: In order to facilitate proceedings, it was agreed that Committee Members should notify the secretariat of areas of particular interest, and that this information should be passed on to the Departments, so that the appropriate officers might be prepared to assist at the hearings.
5. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE:
The Chairman informed the meeting that he would be meeting a representative of the Department of Defence later in the day, for discussions aimed at ensuring that the De partment made available the most appropriate officers for the hearing. The discussions had been prompted by adverse comment in the Committee’s April 1982 report on the
ability of the Department’s representatives to answer questions at the hearing on 19 April 1982.
6. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Senator D. S. Jessop was confirmed as Deputy Chairman.
7. ATTENDANCE: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop and Mulvihill.
B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman
6 7
THE SENATE
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.05 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Res olution of the Senate of 24 August 1982, the Committee would consider— (a) the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983;
(b) the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1983; and
(c) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82,
for departments as follows:
Departmental Estimates to be Examined
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 11
THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 1982
Division
Document* Page No. Department Amount
$
B 38 230-243 D e f e n c e * * ........................................................... 3 631977 000
B 42 263-265 Defence Support*** ....................................... 378 795 000
B 66 315-319 Foreign Affairs .................................................. 818 642 000
C 19 873-876 Foreign Affairs .................................................. 9 834 000
B 84 360 365 Immigration and Ethnic A f f a i r s ....................... 116 083 000
C 23 902-903 Immigration and Ethnic A f f a i r s ....................... 2 919 000
* D ocum ent B—‘Particulars o f Proposed E xpenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983".
* D ocum ent C —‘Particulars o f C ertain Proposed E xpenditure in respect of the Y ear ending on 30 June 1983’.
** Excludes items under the control o f the D epartm ents o f T ransport and C onstruction, Social Security and A dm inistrat ive Services (Divisions 245,246,248,250 and 252).
*** Excludes items under the control of the D epartm ents of T ransport and C onstruction and A dministrative Services (D iv isions 266,267,268 and 269).
Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82
Page in Division
Document D* No. Department Amount
$
9 230-243 D e f e n c e ...................................................................... 6 187 114
10 241-380 Defence S u p p o r t ....................................................... 525 690
12 315-316 Foreign Affairs ....................................................... 177 616
13 360 Immigration and Ethnic A f f a i r s ............................ 350 697
* D ocum ent D —‘A dvance to the Minister for Finance—Statem ent of Heads of Expenditure and the am ounts charged thereto pursuant to section 36a of the A u d i t A c t 1901, for the Year ended 30 June 1982'.
68
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83—DEPART MENT OF DEFENCE.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle D.B.E., Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Defence, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Defence— Mr A. K. Wrigley, Deputy Secretary B Mr P. E. Bazley, Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and Requirements Mr P. G. Collins, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial
Mr R. W. Corey, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning—Army Mr F. R. Harvey, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology Administration Brigadier C. Kahn, Director General, Recruiting
Mr D. M. McAlister, First Assistant Secretary, Programmes and Budgets Mr L. A. McGee, Assistant Secretary, Quality Assurance and Engineering Resources Commodore D. J. McKeegan, Director General, Training and Education
Policy Mr N. R. Miller, First Assistant Secretary, Defence Facilities Brigadier G. J. Murphy, Director General, Joint Plans and Operations Mr M. J. Murray, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning—Air Force
Mr G. E. Nicholls, Assistant Secretary, Resources Planning—Navy Mr J. A. Nockels, Assistant Secretary, International Policy—PNG and De fence Co-operation Programmes Mr J. S. O’Neill, Assistant Secretary, Budgets and Estimates (General and
Co-ordination) Mr T. J. Parker, Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Major General A. D. Powell, Chief of Supply Mr M. F. Sage, Assistant General Manager, Defence Communications
System—Planning and Programming Air Commodore W. E. Sansum, Director General, Material Projects Mr J. Sewell, Assistant Secretary, Project Co-ordination (CS) Mr J. L. Simmonds, Principal Executive Officer, National Disasters
Organisation Air Vice Marshal E. H. Stephenson, Chairman, Services Health Policy Committee Brigadier B. Wade, Director General, Operations and Plans—Army
Commodore B. L. West, Deputy Chief of Naval Material Mr D. D. Wood, First Assistant Secretary, Defence Industry and Material Policy
Department o f Finance— Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch
69
Document B $
Divisions 230, 232-237, 240, 242, 243—Department of D e f e n c e ............................................................................. 3 631 977 000
Divisions 245-246—Under Control of Department of Transport and Construction ............................................ 195 000 000
Division 248—Under Control of Department of Social S e c u r ity ............................................................................. 8 322 000
Divisions 250, 252—Under Control of Department of Administrative Services ................................................ 67 210 000
T h e C h a i r m a n c a l le d o n t h e fo llo w in g D iv is io n s f o r c o n s id e r a tio n :
3 902 509 000
Document D Divisions 230,232,233,238,243—Department of Defence . 6 328 000
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Defence, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.
4. P A R T IC U L A R S OF PRO PO SED E X P E N D IT U R E 1982-83 — DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE SUPPORT:
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle D.B.E., Minister for Finance, representing the Minister for Defence Support, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Defence Support—
Mr A. G. Johnson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr L. Wrigley, Assistant Controller (Projects and Planning), Munitions Supply Division Mr J. Comerford, Principal Executive Officer (Administration), Munitions
Supply Division Mr W. Young, Acting Director (Aircraft), Aircraft Guided Weapons and Elec tronics, Supply Division Mr G. Wilson, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Aircraft Guided Weapons
and Electronics, Supply Division Mr F. Harvey, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology Administration Branch (Department of Defence) Mr J. Cross, Chief Contracts Officer, Major Contracts Branch Mr K, McKnown, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Property Branch Mr J. Bollard, Acting Director, Programs and Estimates Section, Finance and
Property Branch Mr B. Scrivener, Principal Executive Officer, Industry Development Branch Mr C. McGillivray, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr J. Fraser, Director, Manpower Planning, Manpower and Organisation Plan
ning Branch Captain B. Read, Acting Head, Dockyard Secretariat
Department o f Finance— Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch
7 0
$
Document B Divisions 263-265—Department of Defence Support .. . . 378 795 000 Divisions 266, 267—Under Control of Department of Transport and Construction ............................................ 48 100 000
Divisions 268, 269—Under Control of Department of Admin istrative Services ............................................................... 1 816 000
T h e C h a i r m a n c a l le d o n t h e f o llo w in g D iv is io n s f o r c o n s id e r a tio n :
428 711 000
Document D Divisions 241,243, 380—Department of Defence Support . . . 696 000 And Division 263 being considered by the Committee—
5, ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.59 p.m.
6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop, McIntosh, Mulvihill, Sibraa and Watson.
B. F. KILGARI FF Chairman
71
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 12
FRIDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.30 a.m. The Chairman (Senator KilgarifF) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83—DEPART MENT OF DEFENCE SUPPORT:
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Education, representing the Minister for Defence Support, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Defence Support— Mr A. G, Johnson, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Division Mr L. Wrigley, Assistant Controller (Projects and Planning), Munitions Supply Division Mr J. Comerford, Principal Executive Officer (Administration), Munitions
Supply Division Mr W. Young, Acting Director (Aircraft), Aircraft Guided Weapons and Elec tronics, Supply Division Mr G. Wilson, Acting Principal Executive Officer, Aircraft Guided Weapons
and Electronics, Supply Division Mr F. Harvey, Assistant Secretary, Science and Technology, Administration Branch (Department of Defence) Mr J. Cross, Chief Contracts Officer, Major Contracts Branch Mr K. McKnown, Assistant Secretary, Finance and Property Branch Mr J. Bollard, Acting Director, Programs and Estimates Section, Finance and
Property Branch Mr B. Scrivener, Principal Executive Officer, Industry Development Branch Mr C. McGillivray, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr J. Fraser, Director Manpower Planning, Manpower and Organisation
Planning Branch Captain B. Read, Acting Head, Dockyard Secretariat Department o f Finance— Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch Consideration resumed of the following Divisions:
Document B $
Divisions 263-265—Department of Defence Support . . . 378 795 000 Divisions 266, 267—Under Control of Department of Transport and Construction ............................................ 48 100 000
Divisions 268, 269—Under Control of Department of Administrative Services ................................................ 1 816 000
Document D Divisions 241, 243, 380—Department of Defence Support
428 711 000
525 690
72
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Defence Support, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83— DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Education, and Senator the Honourable Fred Chaney, Minister for Social Security, representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Foreign Affairs— Mr P. G. F. Henderson, Secretary Mr R. J. Smith, First Assistant Secretary, Management and Foreign Service Division
Mr R. J. Greet, Acting First Assistant Secretary, International Organisations, Africa and Middle East Division Mr I. G. Bowden, First Assistant Secretary, Consular, Information and Cultural Division
Mr T. Goggin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Economic Organisations Branch Mr B. D. B. Smith, Assistant Secretary, Administrative Services Branch Mr N. R. Manton, Deputy Chief of Protocol Mr W. C. L. Lang, Acting Assistant Secretary, OECD/EC/Energy Branch
Dr J. V. Chey, Executive Director, Australia China Council Mr J, R, Kelso, Senior Advisor, Nuclear Mr G. R. Harber, Assistant Secretary, Technical Services Branch Mr J. Lyndon, Assistant Secretary, Planning and Review Branch Mr I. S. Lincoln, Head of NZ Section and Executive Officer, Australia New
Zealand Foundation—Secretariat Mr R. Parry, Australia New Zealand Foundation—Secretariat Mr B. Davis, Policy Co-ordination Section, Australian Development Assistance Bureau
Mr B. L. Parkes, Director, Overseas General Accounting Section Mr G. J, Wildermuth, Acting Director, Organisation and Resources Planning Section Mr K. B. Scott, Director, Diplomatic Security Section
Mr J. Lovegrove, Director, Communications/Registry Section Mr B. J. Hickey, Director, Personnel Policy Section Mr S. D. Brooks, Budget Officer, Overseas and General Accounting Section Mr F. S. Wojtaszak, Finance Section, Australian Development Assistance
Bureau
Australian Development Assistance Bureau: Dr R. C. Manning, Acting Director Miss R. McGovern, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Bilateral Programs Division Mr J. M. Powell, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Policy, Training and
Organisations Division Mr J, R. M. Wolfe, Assistant Secretary, Development Training Branch Mr N. Ross, Acting Assistant Secretary, Multilateral and Non-Government Programs Branch
Mr I. D. Burston, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operations Support Branch
73
Dr D. G. Blight, Acting Director, Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research Mr R. C. G. Martin, Section Head, Finance Section Mr L. M. Engel, Acting Section Head, Food Aid Unit Ms R. A, Scott-Charlton, Acting Budget Officer, Strategic Planning Section Mr R. Adlam, Multilateral and Non-Government Programs Branch Department o f Finance—
Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting Operations Branch Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Document B Divisions 315-319—Department of Foreign Affairs . Document C Divisions 873,875,876—Department of Foreign Affairs Document D Divisions 315,316—Department of Foreign Affairs ,
$
818 642 000
9 834 000
177 616
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Foreign Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 3.04 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop, McIntosh, Mulvihill, Sibraa and Watson.
B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman
74
THE SENATE
TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.
2. P A R T IC U L A R S OF PR O PO SED E X P E N D IT U R E 1982-83 DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AND ETHNIC AFFAIRS. Appearing: Senator the Hon. Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, represent ing the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, accompanied by the following
officers:
Department o f Immigration and Ethnic Affairs— Mr J. Menadue, Secretary Mr R. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Management Mr I. Lindenmayer, First Assistant Secretary, Ethnic Affairs
Mr P. Judd, Assistant Secretary, Control Branch Mr M. Roche, Assistant Secretary, Finance & Services Branch Mr K. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Policy Co-ordination Branch Ms B. Benson, A/g Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Establishments Branch
Mr N. Hitchcock, Director, Transport, Policy and Special Projects Mr H. Ramsay, Assistant Secretary, Education Branch Mr I. McNeill, Director, Financial Policy and Estimates Mr P. Shelldrake, Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs
Mr G. Woodward, Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs
Department o f Finance— Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 13
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Document B Divisions 360, 364, 365—Department of Immigration and Ethnic A f f a i r s .................................................................... 116 083 000
Document C Divisions 902, 903—Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs .............................................................................. 2 919 000
Document D Division 360—Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs 350 697
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the De partment of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, subject to undertakings by the Minister to provide additional information.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.22 p.m.
75
4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop, McIntosh, Mulvihill and Sibraa.
B.F. KILGARIFF Chairman
76
THE SENATE
WEDNESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 9.35 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.
2. MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings for 26 August 1982, 9 September 1982,10 September 1982 and 21 September 1982 were confirmed.
3. REPORT: The Committee discussed matters to be included in the Committee’s Report to the Senate.
4. BRIEFING: The Committee agreed to seek an informal briefing from the Depart ment of Defence on the Falkland Islands crisis.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.00 p.m.
6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators Jessop, McIntosh, Sibraa and Watson.
B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 14
77
THE SENATE
TUESDAY, 12 OCTOBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 3.25 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Kilgariff) took the Chair.
2. MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings for 22 September 1982 were confirmed.
3. REPORT: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate. Resolved—that the Report, as amended, be agreed to.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.00 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: the following members of the Committee were present:
Senator Kilgariff (Chairman), and Senators McIntosh, Sibraa and Watson.
Apologies: Senators Jessop and Mulvihill.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE D
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 15
B. F. KILGARIFF Chairman
78
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee E has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 24 August 1982, the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates of Expenditure for 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82 relating to the following Departments:
National Development and Energy Employment and Industrial Relations Capital Territory 2. The Committee has considered these Estimates of Expenditure and Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance and has received explanations of
them from the Minister for National Development and Energy and officers of the de partments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in con nection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82.
3. Further written replies to questions are awaited and on receipt will be dis tributed to members of the Committee and where appropriate to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. These written replies will be incor porated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.
4. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following matters aris ing from its consideration of the Estimates:
Capital Works
Arising out of this Committee’s Reports to the Senate of October 1981 and May 1982, the Department of Finance has written to all departments directing that each depart ment list the capital works for which it is responsible in its own Explanatory Notes. To the present, the details of new capital works proposals have only been included in the
Explanatory Notes of the Department of Transport and Construction. As that depart ment is only acting as the contractor, it is not possible for its officers to be examined on the purpose, background or need for the items involved.
Although such lists were not included in the Explanatory Notes relating to 1982-83 Estimates, their inclusion in future will facilitate adequate examination by Estimates Committees of the particulars of new works proposals by individual departments.
Auditor-General’s Report Following the concern expressed by this Committee in its Report to the Senate of October 1981 about the timeliness of the Report of the Auditor-General, the Auditor- General has taken the step of preparing two Reports for tabling during the Budget sit
tings so as to ensure that the result of audits in relation to departments, authorities and other bodies are available to Estimates Committees prior to their consideration of Estimates.
In previous years, the results of audits have been presented with a statutory report on the Financial Statements prepared by the Minister for Finance. As the date of tabling of the Report has been governed largely by the availability of the Minister’s Financial Statements in printed form, the Report has on occasion not been available for
the deliberations of Estimates Committees.
81
The Committee commends the Auditor-General for this step to ensure the avail ability of the results of audits to Estimates Committees.
Department of National Development and Energy
(a) Division o f National Mapping During the Committee’s examination of the Estimates of the Division of National Map ping, the possibility of various Commonwealth agencies duplicating activities in map ping, charting and surveying arose, as indeed it has on previous occasions.
The Committee has been particularly concerned that the Division of National Map ping appears in some respects to be duplicating the work of the Navy in bathymetric and other hydrographic-type mapping.
In this context, the Committee welcomes the establishment of the Commonwealth Co-ordinating Group on Mapping, Charting and Surveying, the purpose of which is to foster co-operation and improve co-ordination between Commonwealth agencies. The Committee believes that this Group should give particular attention to ensuring the maximum degree of co-operation and co-ordination between Commonwealth agencies in the area of bathymetric and other hydrographic-type mapping.
(b) Burdekin Dam The Committee notes that this project is being funded outside the parameters of the National Water Resources Program, a program established precisely to provide finan cial assistance to the States for water resources projects and related activities identified by the States as having high priority.
Given the establishment of the National Water Resources Program for such pur poses, the Committee finds the funding arrangements for the Burdekin Dam to be most curious. Indeed, there must be some question as to the efficiency and equity of such ‘one-off’ arrangements.
The Committee notes the Minister’s agreement that such arrangements are not satisfactory.
(c) Northern Territory Power Station The Committee was concerned to learn that, despite the fact that the Commonwealth is providing $124 million (in 1980-81 prices) towards the construction of this power station, the Commonwealth has not itself made any evaluation of the project but has
relied solely on advice provided by the Northern Territory Government.
The Committee notes that there have been suggestions that construction of the power station appears to be below the primary surge line and that in the event of a cyclone it could be swamped to a depth of one metre.
The Committee believes that in the case of such substantial outlays, it is simply a matter of prudent management that the Commonwealth should require that a particu lar project be subject to its own expert evaluation of all aspects of the project.
(d) Rum Jungle Rehabilitation The Committee notes with concern the long delays associated with providing compen sation to people who cannot return to their land in this area because of contamination. It was brought to the attention of the Committee that in one case, the people concerned
have not had access to their property for 22 years.
The Committee recommends that the Government should give urgent attention to expediting the settlement of compensation claims and rehabilitation of the area.
8 2
Department of the Capital Territory (a) Municipal and Non-municipal Items The Committee recommends that, in view of the dual status of Canberra, as a city in its own right and as the National Capital, the Explanatory Notes of the Department of the Capital Territory should include as an appendix a short summary statement which
disaggregates the total proposed expenditure of the Department into the municipal components and the non-municipal (National Capital) components.
(bj National Capital Development Commission The Committee found the Explanatory Notes of the Commission concerning its proposed administrative expenditure to be lacking sufficient detail. At the Committee’s hearing, officers provided a more detailed breakdown, which was incorporated in
Hansard.
The Committee recommends that the Commission in future include such a detailed breakdown, with appropriate explanations, within its Explanatory Notes.
Department of Employment and Industrial Relations Commonwealth Employment Service During 1981-82, the CES was the subject of a fairly extensive audit by the Auditor-
General’s Office, covering regional offices and a number of zone and employment offices in Victoria, New South Wales and Western Australia. The audit focused on im provements suggested in the Norgard Report (1977), the broad thrust of which was endorsed by the Government.
The findings of that audit are contained in the Auditor-General’s Report of Sep tember 1982 and disclose a number of unsatisfactory features concerning aspects of the operations of the CES.
In the limited time available to it and with its limited resources, the Committee was unable to do much more than touch upon the matters raised by the Auditor-General’s Report. It must also be said that the Report had only been released the day before the Committee’s examination of the Department’s Estimates.
Nevertheless, the Committee feels bound to report that it was not altogether satisfied by the officers’ explanations concerning, for example, the apparent failure to define national objectives for the CES and disseminate them properly to CES staff.
A further matter of concern to the Committee which arose during the course of the hearing was the possibility that staff ceilings and other resource constraints could be having an adverse effect on the operations of the CES. Again, the Committee must re port that it was not altogether convinced by the explanations provided that the oper
ations of the CES are not being adversely affected by various resource constraints. Indeed, it appeared to the Committee that suggestions that, by re-ordering priorities and juggling resources in the face of resource constraints, the final output of the CES would not be affected were in the realm of pious hope.
Given the cursory nature of its consideration of these matters, it would be inappro priate for the Committee to make any particular recommendations. However, the Committee does consider that it might be timely for the appropriate Senate Standing Committee to investigate more fully these matters.
5. In its Report of October 1981, the Committee noted the consideration being given to the future role of Estimates Committees and referred to the possibility of
83
expanding their role beyond that of general inquiry to allow more detailed examin ations from time to time of particular areas of interest. A proposal which this Com mittee considers to have considerable merit is the merging of Estimates Committees with the appropriate Legislative and General Purpose Standing Committees. When taken with the ongoing reference to the Standing Committees of annual reports, such a merger would foster a degree of familiarity—and, indeed, expertise—on the part of Committee members with respect to the operations of various Departments and
Authorities. This could only serve to enhance the scrutiny role of the Senate itself. 6. The Committee expresses its appreciation of the assistance provided by the Min ister and the officers.
A. M. THOMAS Chairman
8 4
Estimates Committee E Minutes of Proceedings
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
M INUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 9
THURSDAY 9 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.04 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Thomas) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman stated that, pursuant to the Resolution of the Senate on 24 August 1982, the Committee would consider the following departmental Estimates of Proposed Expenditure for 1982-83:
Division
Document* Page No. Department Amount
$
B 32 210-215 Capital Territory ............................................ 112 471 000
C 14 834-836 Capital Territory ............................................ 163 511 000
B 54 287-291 Employment and Industrial Relations . . . 414 709000
C 17 860-862 Employment and Industrial Relations . . . 3 893 000
B 91 430-436 National Development and Energy . . . 77 469 000
C 24 924-925 National Development and Energy . . . 142 186 000
* Document B—‘Particulars of Proposed E xpenditure for the Service of the Y ear ending on 30 June 1983'.
* Document C —‘Particulars of C ertain Proposed E xpenditure in respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1983’.
and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981 -82:
Page in Division
Document D* No. Department Amount
$
8 210 Capital Territory ...................................................... 913155
19 834 Capital T e r r ito r y ....................................................... 15 974
1 1 286 Employment and Industrial Relations . . . . 7 742 685
14 430-432 National Development and E n e r g y ....................... 108 921
* Document D —‘A dvance to the M inister for Finance—Statem ent of Heads of E xpenditure and the am ounts charged thereto pursuant to section 36a of t h e A u d i t A c t 1901, for the Year ended 30 June 1982’.
3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82—DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENERGY.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Sir John Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f National Development and Energy— Mr D. J. Ives, Acting Director, National Energy Office Mr P. Ryan, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr W. H, Ratcliff, Assistant Secretary, Management Services
87
Mr A. Manderson, First Assistant Secretary, Water and Development Division Mr R. Hopkins, Assistant Secretary, Research Policy and Programs Branch, Energy Research and Development Division Mr G. C. Gorrie, Assistant Secretary, Energy Conservation Branch, Energy
Policy Division Mr B. R. Jones, Assistant Secretary, Development Branch, Water and Development Division Mr T, J. Fielding, Principal Executive Officer, Development Branch, Water and
Development Division Mr R. Ryan, Assistant Director, Australian Safeguards Office Mr C. Veenstra, Director, Division of National Mapping Dr A. R. Jensen, Acting Assistant Director, Planning and Programs Division,
Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics Australian Atomic Energy Commission: Dr R. Smith, Deputy Director, Operations Mr A. J. Moulding, Assistant Secretary (Finance) The Pipeline Authority:
Mr F. W. Noble, Finance Manager Mr P. G. Treloar, Chief Accountant Department o f Finance— Mr A. J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 430-436—Department of National Development and Energy (Document B) Divisions 924-925—Department of National Development and Energy (Document C)
Divisions 430-432—Department of National Development and Energy (Document D) The Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the proposed Expenditure of the Department of National Development and Energy for
1982-83.
The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981 82, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to supply additional information to the Committee.
4. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDI TURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82—DEPARTMENT OF THE CAPITAL TERRITORY.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Sir John Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f the Capital Territory— Mr N. J. Quinn, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr R. J. Corrigan, First Assistant Secretary, Lands Division Mr R. J. Donnellan, A/g First Assistant Secretary, Community Services
Division Mr W. E. Lawrence, First Assistant Secretary, Policy and Program Co-ordination Division
88
Mr V. F. Martisius, A/g First Assistant Secretary, Transport and Technical Services Division Mr C. S. Hamilton, A/g Assistant Secretary, Finance and Supply Branch Mr B. J. Lenihan, A/g Director, Programs and Budgets Section Miss L, M. Webb, A/g Assistant Secretary, Public Transit Branch Mr B. C. Rope, Commissioner for Housing
Mr D. Barron, Principal Librarian, Canberra Public Library Service National Capital Development Commission: Mr K. Curtis, Secretary and Manager Mr A, Phillips, A/g Assistant Secretary, Program Management
Parliament House Construction Authority: Mr J. L, Maher, Assistant Secretary, Management Department o f Finance— Mr A. J. Chapman, Senior Finance Officer fhe Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 210-215—Department of the Capital Territory (Document B) Divisions 834-836—Department of the Capital Territory (Document C) Divisions 210 and 834—Department of the Capital Territory (Document D) Fhe Minister for National Development and Energy made a statement relating to the Droposed expenditure of the Department of the Capital Territory for 1982-83. Fhe Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to supply additional information to the Committee.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.43 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: senators Childs, Crichton-Browne, Elstob, Hill, Robertson and Thomas (6). Senator McLaren was also in attendance.
A. M. THOMAS Chairman
89
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE E
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 10
FRIDAY 10 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.03 a.m. The Chairman (Senator Thomas) took the Chair.
2. CONSIDERATION OF THE PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDI TURE 1982-83 AND EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82—DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS.
Appearing·. Senator the Honourable Sir John Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Employment and Industrial Relations— Mr J. Maher, Deputy Secretary Mr J. Bowdler, Acting Deputy Secretary Mr J. Cooley, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr B. Macdonald, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch Mr K. Power, Assistant Secretary, Personnel and Establishments Branch Mr A. Abrahart, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Manpower Policy and
Programmes Division Mr J. Woodrow, First Assistant Secretary, Labour Relations and International Division Mr B. Frawley, First Assistant Secretary, Industrial Relations (General
Industry) Division Mr N. Fisher, Director, Bureau of Labour Market Research Commonwealth Employment Service: Mr P. Mason, Acting General Manager, Programmes Division
Mr N. Clifford, General Manager, Operations Division Mr R. Saunderson, Acting General Manager, Planning and ADP Division Office of the Industrial Registrar: Mr J. McMahon, Industrial Registrar
Mr J. Hall, Administrative Officer Trade Union Training Authority: Mr M. Heagney, National Director Mr D. Hamilton, Administrator Industrial Relations Bureau:
Mr C. Wood, Deputy Director Mr P. Fisher, First Assistant Director, Awards Mr W. Maddigan, Assistant Director, Management Department o f Finance— Mr H. Campbell, Senior Finance Officer
90
The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 287-291—Department of Employment and Industrial Relations (Document B) Divisions 860-862—Department of Employment and Industrial Relations (Document C)
Division 286—Department of Employment and Industrial Relations (Document D) The Minister for National Development and Energy tabled a statement relating to the proposed expenditure of the Department of Employment and Industrial Relations for
1982-83. The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82, subject to an undertaking by the Minister to supply additional information to the Committee.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 2.56 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Childs, Robertson and Thomas (3). Senator McLaren was also in attendance.
A. M. THOMAS Chairman
91
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee F has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 24 August 1982 the Senate referred to the Committee the Estimates for 1982-83 relating to the following Departments:
Science and Technology Transport and Construction Aviation
2. The Committee has considered the Estimates, together with the Departmental Explanatory Notes, and has received explanations from the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs (Senator Messner) and officers of the Departments concerned. Copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and Hansard reports of the evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the information of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No.
1) 1982-83, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83 and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82.
3. The Committee wishes to draw attention to the following matters:
Department of Science and Technology— Landsat The Committee was concerned to note that the cost of access to the Landsat satellite is expected to rise by 328 per cent with the transfer of operational control from the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration to the U.S. National Oceanographic
and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). The Committee believes that the Depart ment of Science and Technology should explore with the NOAA means of reducing the increase, including collaboration in scientific programs using the Landsat data.
Department of Transport and Construction Division 655 Sub-Division 1: Item 01: Parliament The Committee appreciates that the examination of the expenditure on repairs and
maintenance done on behalf of client departments by the Department of Transport and Construction is the proper role of the Estimates Committee examining the Estimates of the client department. However, during the examination of the Estimates for the De partment of Transport and Construction, the Committee was concerned that the sum
of $52 000 was proposed to be spent on the removal and replacement of two pergolas in the Senate and House of Representatives courtyards. The Committee was unable to re ceive a full explanation from the Department of Transport and Construction as to why such an amount was being spent on such an item at a time when the building of a new and permanent Parliament House is proceeding. The Committee understands that the
Senate House Committee is further examining the activities of the Joint House Depart ment and requests that this item of repairs and maintenance be examined by that Committee.
Revenue Items— Reference to Committees Revenue items are not referred to Estimates Committees for examination. They are in cluded in the Explanatory Notes only for the information of the Committee, and can not formally be the subject of the same investigation as expenditure items.
95
The Committee believes that revenue items should also be referred to the Estimates Committees for examination. The need for such a reference is especially evident in the case of those authorities, departments or divisions that are required, as a matter of government policy, to obtain complete or partial cost recovery from users.
Within this Committee’s sphere of responsibilities, such bodies include the Depart ment of Aviation and the Patent, Trade Marks and Designs Office of the Department of Science and Technology. In such cases, the examination of expenditure without a complementary examination of revenue is incomplete, as the two items are inextricably
linked.
Estimates Committees—Continuing Role This Committee is of the opinion that there is a need for a continuing reference for Esti mates Committees to more adequately fulfil their role. Under Standing Order 36AB, Estimates Committees are established at the com mencement of each Parliament, for the life of the Parliament. The Resolution for the appointment of the Committee provides that Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Additional Expenditure shall on motion be referred to the Committees for examination and report. This precludes Estimates Committees from having a continuing function during the year and so limits their effectiveness.
There are many areas of executive activity that warrant closer scrutiny by the Senate, both in relation to the expending of appropriations, and in evaluating the effec tiveness of the departments’ activities. The Committee notes that, in the past year, officers have been appointed to staff the Estimates Committees, and are available on a full-time basis, if required. With the in troduction of adequate staffing, the Committee believes that further consideration should now be given to providing Estimates Committees with a continuing function.
4. Written replies to questions are awaited and, on receipt, will be distributed to members of the Committee and, where appropriate, to other Senators who participated in the Committee’s examination. The replies will also be incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.
5. In conclusion, the Committee wishes to record its appreciation for the expla nations provided by the Minister and officers of the various Departments who assisted the Committee.
M. TOWNLEY Chairman
96
Estimates Committee F Minutes of Proceedings
THE SENATE
THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.
2. APOLOGIES: Senator Georges.
3. REFERENCE TO ESTIMATES COMMITTEES: The Resolution of the Senate of 24 August 1982 relating to the referral to Estimates Committees of the Par ticulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Year ending on 30 June 1983 was reported.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Meeting adjourned till 4.04 p.m., Thursday, 9 September 1982.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senators Coates, Jones, MacGibbon, Townley and Withers (5).
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 10
M. TOWNLEY Chairman
9 9
THE SENATE
THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 4.04 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a Statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EX PEN D ITU RE 1982-83- DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY. Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Science and Technology— Mr P. B. Free, First Assistant Secretary, Operations and Management Division Mr E. T. Roots, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr J. C. Chiang, Acting Director, Finance and Supply Section Mr B. E. Williamson, Inspector, Personnel Operations Mr J. A. Wharton, Executive Officer, Budget Mr B. D. Fitzpatrick, Budget Officer Mr R. S. Goleby, Assistant Secretary, Grants and Projects Branch Mr R. C. Norris, Australian Government Analyst Mr G. R. Rankin, Acting Executive Officer, Finance Analytical Services Branch Mr A. M. Mikkonen, Acting Director, General Industry Section
Mr A. M. Morrisson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Technology Development Branch Mr R. C. Haydon, Acting Director, Technology Facilities Section Mr K. Creech, Acting Assistant Secretary, Operational Policy Branch Mr D. Keeley, Assistant Secretary, Marine Policy Branch Mr P. B. Flaherty, Acting Director, Recombinant DNA Monitoring Committee Mr R. C. Lloyd, Director, Administration and Finance, Space Projects Branch Mr D. J. Gray, Station Director, Australian Landsat Station Patent, Trade Marks and Designs Office:
Mr W. J. Peart, Acting Senior Assistant Commissioner, Business Management Mr R. L. Robertson, Director, Systems Management Mr F. P, Campbell, Acting Assistant Director, Finance and General Services Commonwealth Bureau of Meteorology:
Mr W. K. Henderson, Acting Assistant Director, Management Mr G. Grunbaum, Acting Supervising Meteorologist, Co-ordination and Planning Mr A. J. Carroll, Acting Executive Officer, Finance
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 11
100
National Standards Commission: MrT. J. Petry, Executive Director Mr H. Wray, Finance Officer Antarctic Division:
Mr C. G. McCue, Director Mr P. C. Card, Acting Manager, Finance and Accounting Australian Institute of Marine Science: Dr J. S. Bunt, Director Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation:
Dr N. K. Boardman, Member, CSIRO Executive Mr H. C. Crozier, Secretary, Finance & Administration Mr I. L. Farrar, Assistant Secretary, Budget Dr N. J. Sullivan, Assistant Secretary, Research Policy Development
Mr I. D. Whiting, Deputy Secretary, Personnel Mr I. L. Harvey, Chief Finance Officer, Budget Mr R. A. Riches, Senior Finance Officer, Budget Mr R. Lockwood, CSIRO Budget Section Department o f Finance—
Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 540 to 554—Department of Science and Technology (Document B) Divisions 948 to 950—Department of Science and Technology (Document C) Divisions 540, 542—Department of Science and Technology (Advance to the Min ister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the De
partment of Science and Technology subject to an undertaking by the Minister to pro vide additional information to the Committee.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EX PEN D ITU R E 1982-83— DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT AND CONSTRUCTION.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer, accompanied by the following officers: Department of Transport and Construction— Mr K. J. Rodda, Deputy Secretary, Construction
Mr P. B. Eccles, First Assistant Secretary, Marine Operations Division Mr K. J. Cosgrove, First Assistant Secretary, Land Transport Policy Division Mr I. R. Grigor, First Assistant Secretary, Sea Transport Policy Division Mr R. J. Egan, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch
Mr T. L, Slater, Acting Assistant Secretary, Works Programming Branch Australian National Railways Commission: Mr B. Walkom, Assistant General Manager Department o f Finance—
Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration: Divisions 664 to 668—Department of Transport and Construction (Document B)
Divisions 972 to 973—Department of Transport and Construction (Document C)
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Division 655—Department of Transport and Construction (Advance to the Minis ter for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure from the De partment of Transport and Construction subject to an undertaking from the Minister to provide additional information to the Committee.
5. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.20 p.m.
6. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were in attendance: Senator Townley (Chairman), Senator MacGibbon (Deputy Chairman) and Senators Coates, Jones and Withers. Senators Rae and McLaren were also in attendance.
M. TOWNLEY Chairman
102
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 12
MONDAY, 20 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 1.04 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made a Statement relating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of the Particulars of Proposed Additional Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1982.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83— DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION.
Appearing: Senator the Hon. A. J. Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Minister assisting the Treasurer accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Aviation— Mr K. H. Toakley, First Assistant Secretary, Resources Division Mr E. P. R. Bowen, Assistant Secretary, Finance Branch, Resources Division Ms C. M. Goode, Acting Assistant Secretary, Manpower Branch, Resources
Division Mr G. J. Harper, Acting Director, Budget Section, Finance Branch Mr J. W. Spencer, First Assistant Secretary, Airports Division Mr T. F. Hopkinson, Assistant Secretary, Airports Management Branch, Air
ports Division Mr Î. B. O’Keeffe, First Assistant Secretary, Airways Division Mr R. S. Elder, Assistant Secretary, Domestic Regulation Branch, Domestic Policy Division Mr B. G. Dockrill, Assistant Secretary, Economic Policy and Investment Plan
ning Branch, Domestic Policy Division Mr S. E. Yeend, First Assistant Secretary, Flying Operations and Airworthiness Division Mr N. F. Wicks, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services
Division Mr G. Williams, Assistant Secretary, Airport Systems Branch, Airports Division Independent Air Fares Committee: Mr P, Scott, Secretary
Department o f Finance— Mr J. A. Landrigan, Acting Chief Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Divisions 193 to 194—Aviation (Document B) Division 821—Aviation (Document C) Division 655—Aviation (Advance to the Minister for Finance) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Proposed Expenditure for the De partment of Aviation subject to an undertaking by the Ministers to provide additional
information to the Committee.
103
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 4.25 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were in attendance: Senator Townley (Chairman) and Senators Coates, Jones and MacGibbon. Senator McLaren was also in attendance.
M. TOWNLEY Chairman
104
THE SENATE
WEDNESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 1.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Townley) took the Chair.
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of the meetings held on 9 and 20 September 1982 were read and confirmed.
3. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft re port to the Senate.
Resolved: That the report be adopted with amendments.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting adjourned at 1.05 p.m. till a time and date to be fixed.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Townley (Chairman) and Senators MacGibbon and Withers (3).
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE F
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 13
M. TOWNLEY Chairman
105
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G REPORT TO THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee ‘G ’ has the honour to present its Report to the Senate,
1. On 24 August 1982 the Senate referred to the Committee the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for 1982-83 and departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for 1981 -82 for the following Departments:
Veterans’ Affairs
Social Security Aboriginal Affairs
Health
2. The Committee considered the Estimates and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations from the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs (Senator Messner), the Minister for Finance (Senator Dame Margaret Guilfoyle), the Minister for Social Security (Senator Chaney) and the Minister for
Education (Senator Baume) and officers of the various departments. A copy of the Minutes of Proceedings are tabled for the information of the Senate in conjunction with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982-83 and Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83. The Hansard report of the evidence taken by the Committee will be tabled on the next day
of sitting of the Senate.
3. During the hearing of evidence undertakings were given that additional written information would be made available to the Committee. Written replies to questions will be tabled for the information of the Senate and incorporated in the final Hansard report of the Committee’s hearings.
General:
Order of Appearance of Departments
The Committee is grateful that every effort is made by Ministers in the Senate to attend Estimates Committee meetings of their own departments or departments for which they are responsible in the Senate. In order to help facilitate this commitment, the Committee has no objection to re-ordering the departments appearing before it. At the
commencement of Estimates Committee G hearings on Thursday, 16 September 1982, there was some confusion as to the order of appearance of departments. Unbeknown to Committee members and staff, arrangements had been made by the Ministers for Social Security and Veterans’ Affairs to change the order of appearance of departments ap
pearing before Estimates Committee G. This resulted in some confusion and minor in convenience to Committee members and other Senators who had intended to sit in on the Committee’s proceedings.
Special Appropriations While special appropriations are not formally referred to Committees for scrutiny, de partments have nonetheless been instructed by the Department of Finance to provide details of their special appropriations in their Explanatory Notes. The Committee be
lieves that there are two difficulties in dealing with special appropriations under exist ing arrangements. First, as special appropriations account for just under 70 per cent of total appropriations, it seems extraordinary that such an amount can only be formally
109
examined under the Salaries and Payments in the Nature of Salary Division of each de partment’s expenditure. The Committee would recomend that this matter be referred back to the Standing Orders Committee for further consideration with the view to amending Standing Order 36AB to allow special appropriations to be examined in their own right.
Secondly, if details of special appropriations are to be provided for the benefit of Estimates Committees, then the Committee would request that the information pro vided be of sufficient detail to enable a proper reconciliation between original estimates and actual expenditure for a particular year.
Freedom of Information
The Committee noted, under various items of Proposed Expenditure by departments, references to the Freedom of Information legislation. This proposed expenditure in cludes such items as office requisites and equipment, stationery and printing, travelling and subsistence etc. The Department of Veterans’ Affairs told the Committee that it anticipates that it will require an additional 79 members of staff to administer the new
Freedom of Information Act. Until this Act comes into operation, it is anyone’s guess as to the likely impact it will have on each department. It will therefore be essential that a close watch is kept on post Freedom of Information developments to ensure that there will not be an over-reaction by departments to meet the likely demand for information.
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
The Committee notes that the Department provides funds for the treatment and ex penses of eligible persons (including certain service pensioners) involving payment of fees to specialists and local medical officers, physiotherapists, chiropodists, visiting nurses etc., the reimbursement of medical expenses privately incurred and the provision and maintenance of surgical aids, renal equipment and appliances (including specta cles) for eligible persons. However, it does not provide funds for the treatment expenses of eligible persons who require the services of a chiropractor. While the Committee ac knowledges the extent of services provided and the very important role of the local medical officer, the Committee finds it a little difficult to understand why treatment by chiropractors is still not recognised as an eligible medical expense for Repatriation Benefit recipients. The Committee does not wish to give an imprimatur to chiroprac tors, however it should be recognised that for certain persons, chiropractic treatment may be the most appropriate course of action for a particular ailment. The Committee therefore requests that the Minister and his department give further thought to the el igibility of chiropractic services for eligible persons under the Repatriation Benefits Scheme.
Vietnam Veterans’ Counselling Services are located in each capital city. The Com mittee acknowledges that all regions cannot expect to have such a counselling service, however it queries the apparent lack of a clear policy within the department to assist those veterans who live in remote centres and may have to travel many kilometres to obtain these services. The mere fact that such services are now available would indicate that there is a demonstrated need but the principle of equity may not be applied to those in need who happen to live in non-capital cities. The Committee is unaware of the number of Vietnam veterans who would be in this situation but it strongly believes that the principle of equity and fairness should be applied to all Vietnam veterans in need of this new service.
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Department of Social Security
Many initiatives were developed during the International Year of the Disabled Person. The Minister for Social Security, Senator Chaney, indicated to the Committee that in order to follow up some of these initiatives, his department has suggested that all Com monwealth departments put a section in their annual report commenting on employ
ment and other services available for disabled people. The Committee fully endorses this proposal and will be watching with great interest the reporting of post-IYDP devel opments in forthcoming departmental annual reports.
The Committee expresses concern at the continued backlog of claims before the Social Security Appeals Tribunals. Even though an additional 27 new members were appointed in 1981-82, the department has acknowledged that the level of activity is likely to increase further during 1982-83. At the time of tabling this report the Com mittee did not have before it the additional information requested at the time of the
hearings. When the Committee has had a chance to consider fully the supplementary information concerning the delays in appeals it will again report to Senate on these developments.
Department of Aboriginal Affairs The Committee still believes that there is a tendency not to fully consult and involve Aboriginal people in matters which are of direct concern to their own well-being and
advancement. Whilst the Committee appreciates that there is a need for highly skilled and specialist personnel involved in certain aspects of negotiations, for example, Queensland land tenure legislation for Aborigines, the Committee nonetheless believes it is important to ensure that Aborigines do have, and in fact are given, the opportunity
to become involved in all phases of the negotiations.
An amount of $173 000 has been set aside this financial year to cover the costs of a review of the existing electoral boundaries of the National Aboriginal Conference to determine whether there is a need to increase the membership of the Conference. When questioned on this particular item, the department reported that NAC membership size was a government decision and this was greatly influenced by the amount and nature of
business that it had to consider. Therefore, it was somewhat confusing to the Com mittee as to the real purpose of this review of existing electoral boundaries. It would therefore appear to the Committee that there is a lack of clear guidelines associated with this review and in fact the general comments on this item in the Explanatory Notes
are misleading.
The Committee noted that for the first time the Government itself has decided on the level of funds to be provided to the Aboriginal Development Commission. In the past, the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs has decided the share of funds as between the Department and the Commission. As the Commission assumes a growing role in Abor
iginal Affairs, it is important that ADC provides thorough guidelines for its expenditure programs and that accountability is properly maintained. Therefore it is hoped that matters raised in the Auditor-General’s Report of September 1982 will be dealt with immediately and that similar problems will not arise.
Department of Health The Committee spent a great deal of time questioning officers of the department about many aspects relating to overservicing and medical fraud. As this is the subject of an in quiry by the Joint Parliamentary Committee of Public Accounts, Estimates Committee
G felt it was more appropriate not to report on any matters until the PAC report had been finalised and presented to Parliament.
I l l
During questioning on the Family Planning Program for 1982-83, a matter of grave concern was brought to the attention of the Committee. The Family Planning Associ ation in Queensland, in conjunction with the Queensland Department of Health, have produced a training kit for family planning purposes for use in the Aboriginal com munity. In this kit it lists a drug, depo-provera. This drug has been given limited ap
proval for specific serious conditions by the Australian Drug Evaluation Committee but it has not been approved by ADEC for use as a contraceptive. (Although the drug is not approved by ADEC it can still be legally used by women for birth control purposes subject to all its contraindications.) The Committee takes very strong objection to suggestions that Aboriginal women could consider using this ‘non-approved drug’. Re gardless of whether this matter is a state responsibility, the Committee strongly rec
ommends that immediate action be taken by the Commonwealth Minister for Health to inform the Queensland State Health Department about the status of this drug and to ensure this drug is not used as a means of family planning within the Aboriginal com munity. The Committee would also urge that this kit be modified and that all reference to the drug depo-provera be deleted.
Approval for Nursing Home Benefits (including supplementary benefits) is deter mined on the basis of an approved proprietor, not ownership. Because many nursing homes are run commercially with the view to making a profit, it appears inconsistent from the Committee’s point of view that public monies are made available to such or ganisations, if there is no public accountability. That is, the Department of Health
should know who is ultimately benefiting from the public subsidisation of patients in private nursing homes. It is hoped that this matter will be further investigated and reported on by the Senate Select Committee’s inquiry into Private Hospitals and Nurs ing Homes in Australia.
The Committee expresses it appreciation of the assistance given by the Ministers and officers of the departments appearing before the Committee.
N. T. BONNER
22 September 1982 Chairman
112
Estimates Committee G Minutes of Proceedings
THE SENATE
THURSDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1982
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE G
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 11
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 2.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the chair.
2. STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN: The Chairman made an introductory state ment and reported to the Committee that the Senate had referred, on 24 August 1982, the Estimates for 1982-83 for certain departments, and certain departmental Expendi ture under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for 1981-82, to the Committee for
examination and report.
3. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE AD VANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82: Pursuant to the Order of the Senate, the Committee commenced consideration of the Particulars of Proposed
Expenditure for the Service of the year ending 30 June 1983, the Particulars for Certain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the year ending 30 June 1983 and the Departmen tal Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the year ended 30 June 1982 relating to the following:
Departmental Estimates to be Examined
(Minister: Senator the Hon. F. M. Chaney)
Division
Document* Page No. Department Amount
B 9 120-125 Aboriginal Affairs ...........................................
$
144 037 000
C 9 804-805 Aboriginal Affairs ........................................... 36 629 000
B 73 325-329 H e a l t h ................................................................ 491 792 000
C 20 881-883 H e a l t h ................................................................ 30 334 000
B 109 590 593 Social Security ................................................ 613 361 000
B 41 248 Housing for Servicemen—Advances to
States ( Defence) ........................................... 8 322 000
C 27 955-957 Social Security ................................................ 233 012 000
B 126 690-693 Veterans’ Affairs ........................................... 596 536 000
C 32 984-987 Veterans’ Affairs ........................................... 70 949 000
* D ocum ent B—‘Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Y ear ending on 30 June 1983’. * D ocum ent C —‘Particulars o f C ertain Proposed Expenditure in respect of the Y ear ending on 30 June 1983’.
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Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981-82
P a g e in
D o c u m e n t D *
D iv is io n
No. D e p a r tm e n t A m o u n t
6 120 Aboriginal Affairs
S
5 351
19 805 Aboriginal Affairs 140 000
12 325 H ealth . . . 9 254
16 590 Social Security . 375 328
17 690 692 V eterans' Affairs 2 287 575
* D ocum ent D —‘A dvance to the M inister for Finance—Statem ent of Heads of Expenditure and the am ounts charged thereto pursuant to section 36a of the A u d i t A c t 1901, for the Year ended 30 June 1982".
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR
FINANCE 1981-82.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Veterans’ Affairs— Mr D. Volker, Secretary of the Department of Veterans' Affairs and Chairman of the Repatriation Commission Mr G. T. Miller, First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Division Mr N. W. Hunt, Assistant Secretary (Finance), Management Services Division Dr Î. M. Kehoe, Chief Director (Medical Services), Medical Division Mr N. T. Trabinger, First Assistant Secretary, Treatment Services Division Mr T. T. Healey, Assistant Secretary (Departmental Health), Treatment Ser
vices Division Mr L. Power, Director, Vietnam Veterans’ Counselling Services, Treatment Services Division Mr G. E. Fitzgerald, Assistant Secretary (Systems), Systems Division Mr B. M. Godfrey, Assistant Secretary (Legislation Review), Legal Services
Division Mr E. D. Letts, First Assistant Secretary, Benefits and Special Projects Division Mr R. J. Hill, Assistant Secretary (Benefits), Benefits and Special Projects
Division Mr A. J. Selleck, General Manager, Defence Service Homes Corporation Department o f Finance— Ms P. A. Lyndon, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division
The Chairman called on Divisions 690-693, Veterans’ Affairs, $596 536 000 (Docu ment B), Divisions 984-987, Veterans’ Affairs, $70 949 000 (Document C), and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance, $2 287 575.
Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.
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5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR
FINANCE 1981-82.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, D.B.E., Minister for Finance, and Senator the Honourable Fred Chaney, Minister for Social Security, accompanied by the following officers: Department o f Social Security—
Mr A. J. Ayers, Director-General Mr N. J. Tanzer, Deputy Director-General Mr D. Dixon, Acting Head, Social Welfare Policy Secretariat Mr K. Burnett, Acting Director, Office of Child Care
Mr R. L. Brown, Director of Social Security, South Australia Mr B. J. Wight, Acting First Assistant Director-General (Housing Policy) Mr S. F. Skehill, First Assistant Director-General (Legislation and Review) Mr J. M. Mahoney, First Assistant Director-General (Management)
Mr D. R. Scott, First Assistant Director-General (Rehabilitation and Subsidies) Mr K. T. Kimball, First Assistant Director-General (Systems and Operations) Mr C. Calvert, Assistant Director-General (Finance) Mr E. B. Kennedy, Assistant Director-General (Operations)
Mr G. Pilger, Assistant Director-General (Subsidies) Mr C. E. Butel, Acting Assistant Director-General (Policy Review) Mr W, E. J. Butler, Director (Home Deposit Assistance/Home Savings Grants) Ms J. Blazow, Acting Section Head (Early Childhood) Office of Child Care Department o f Finance—
Ms P. A. Lyndon, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 590-593, Social Security, $613 361 000 (Document B), Division 248, Housing for Servicemen—Advances to States (Defence), $8 322 000 (Document B), Divisions 955-957, Social Security, $233 012 000 (Document C),
Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance $375 328. Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.
6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at fifteen minutes to ten p.m.
7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman), and Senators Giles, Grimes, Teague and Martyr. Also in attend ance were Senators McLaren and Robertson.
N. T. BONNER Chairman
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THE SENATE
FRIDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 10.00 a.m.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82:
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Education, representing the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Aboriginal Affairs—â Mr J. C. Taylor, Secretary Mr J. P. M. Long, Deputy Secretary Mr L. A. J. Malone, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr G. M. Brownbill, First Assistant Secretary Mr R. Huey, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Development Division Mr J. G. Menham, Assistant Secretary, Information Branch Mr R. Toohey, Assistant Secretary, Program Branch Mr W. C. Hamilton, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr W. Miller, Director, Program Development Aboriginal Development Commission:
Mr C. Perkins, Chairman Mr K. C. Martin, Administrator Mr A. Ashley, Assistant Administrator, Administration Mr M. O’Brien, Assistant Administrator, Regions Mr W. Coller, Director, Housing Mr P. Greenhalgh, Branch Manager, Land and Enterprises Aboriginal Hostels Limited:
Ms L. O’Donoghue, Chairman Mr N. Perkins, General Manager Mr R. Clarke, Company Secretary Australian Institute of Aboriginal Studies:
Mr E. Wilmot, Principal Mr T. Varga, Finance Officer Department o f Finance— Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on Divisions 120-125 and 804-805, Department of Aboriginal Affairs, and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance. Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Ad vance to the Minister for Finance were considered as follows:
Divisions 120-125—Aboriginal Affairs $144 037 000 (Document A)
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Divisions 804-805—Aboriginal Affairs $36 629 000 (Document B) Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance $5 351 (Division 120) $140 000 (Division 805) Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Ad
vance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at ten minutes to four p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman) and Senators Giles and Teague. Also present were Senators McLaren and Robertson.
N. T. BONNER Chairman
119
THE SENATE
TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met at 8.00 p.m. The Chairman (Senator Bonner) took the Chair.
2. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND DEPARTMENTAL EXPENDITURE UNDER THE ADVANCE TO THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE 1981-82.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Education, representing the Minister for Health, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Health— Mr M. Carroll, Deputy Director-General Mr L. W. Lane, First Assistant Director-General, Management Services Division Dr K. W. Edmondson, First Assistant Director-General, Therapeutics Division Mr P. T. Pflaum, First Assistant Director-General, Policy and Planning
Division Dr D. B. Travers, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Services Division Mr J. McCauley, First Assistant Director-General, Medical Benefits Division (on secondment) Mr P. R. Griffin, Acting First Assistant Director-General, Medical Benefits
Division Dr P. L. Ilbery, Acting First Assistant Director-General, Quarantine Division Mr H. D. Kelaher, Acting First Assistant Director-General, Insurance, Hospitals and Nursing Homes Division Mr P. W. Moyle, Acting First Assistant Director-General, Public Health
Division Dr D. S. Graham, Acting First Assistant Director-General, National Health and Medical Research Division Mr G. M. James, Assistant Director-General, National Health and Medical
Research Division Mr N. M. Hill, Assistant Director-General, Operations Branch Mr J. B. Kelly, Assistant Director-General, Finance Branch Mr W. G. Turk, Assistant Director-General, Internal Audit Branch Mr N. M. Noble, Acting Assistant Director-General, Animal Quarantine
Branch MrG. F. Bunfield, Director, Finance Mr R. Gordon, Acting Secretary, CTHC Mr G. Thom, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Finance and General Services,
CTHC
Department o f Finance— Mr I. K. Butt, Senior Finance Officer, Accounting and Supply Division
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The Chairman called on Divisions 325-329 and 881-883, Department of Health and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance. Consideration commenced on the following Particulars of Proposed Expenditure and Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance:
Document B
$
Divisions 325-329—Health ................................................ 491 792 000
Document C Divisions 881-883—H e a l t h ................... ............................ 30 334 000
Departmental Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance (Division 325) ........................................... 9 254
Consideration of the Estimates for the Department and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance completed subject to an undertaking by the Minister to provide replies to a number of questions.
3. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 11.00 p.m.
4. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman) and Senators Giles, Grimes, Ryan, Teague and Walters. Also present were Senators Button, Bolkus and Kilgariff.
N. T. BONNER Chairman
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THE SENATE
WEDNESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met in a deliberative session at 1.30 p.m. in Room M52, Parliament House, Canberra.
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The minutes of the meetings held on 16, 17 and 21 September 1982 were read and confirmed.
3. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT: The Chairman presented his draft report to the Committee.
Resolved: That the report be agreed to.
4. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 1.45 p.m.
5. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Bonner (Chairman) and Senators Giles and Walters.
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N. T. BONNER Chairman
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H REPORT TO THE SENATE
I
Ï J ί
t
ί
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H
REPORT TO THE SENATE
Estimates Committee H has the honour to present its Report to the Senate.
1. On 24 August 1982 the Senate referred to the Committee for examination and eport the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 lune 1983 and the Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year snding on 30 June 1983 and, for its consideration, Expenditure under the Advance to he Minister for Finance for the Year ended on 30 June 1982, by Departments as
ollows: Primary Industry Industry and Commerce Trade and Resources 2. The Committee has considered the Estimates of Expenditure and Expenditure mder the Advance to the Minister for Finance and received explanations of them from :he Minister for Social Security, the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, the Minister for Education and the Minister for National Development and Energy and officers of the Departments concerned. A copy of the Minutes of Proceed ings and Hansard report of evidence taken by the Committee are tabled for the infor mation of the Senate in connection with Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 1982 83 and Ap propriation Bill (No. 2) 1982-83. Further written explanations furnished by Departments will be presented separately and printed in the Hansard record.
3. The Committee draws the attention of the Senate to the following:
490.3.11 Price support for dairy products During consideration of this item, the Committee sought information concerning a pro posal for the sale of the Australian Dairy Corporation’s equity in PT Indomilk in Indonesia. Questioning (Hansard, 16 September 1982, pages 689, 690) failed to elicit
satisfactory answers and the Committee resolved to write to the Minister for Primary Industry seeking further information on the matter. As a result of delays in the prep aration of the transcript of evidence and the Chairman’s subsequent absence from Can berra, the letter was forwarded to the Minister on 12 October 1982. A reply has yet to be received by the Committee.
4. The Committee records its appreciation of the assistance of the Ministers and the officers of the Departments concerned.
13 October 1982
BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman
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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 10
THURSDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 1982
1. MEETING: The Committee met in public session at 2.00 p.m. in Senate Com mittee Room 6. The Chairman (Senator Archer) took the Chair.
2. PROCEDURE OF THE COMMITTEE: The Chairman made a statement re lating to the procedure to be followed by the Committee in its examination of Particu lars of Proposed Expenditure for the Service of the Year ending on 30 June 1983— Document B; Particulars of Certain Proposed Expenditure in Respect of the Year ending on 30 June 1983—Document C; and Expenditure under the Advance to the
Minister for Finance for the Year ended 30 June 1982—Document D for the Depart ments as indicated.
3. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND RESOURCES.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, representing the Minister for Trade and Resources, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Trade and Resources— Mr E. Exell, Acting Senior Assistant Secretary, Management and Overseas Division Mr R. Casley-Smith, Acting Assistant Secretary, Management and Overseas
Division Mr S. Ryan, Acting Director, Management and Overseas Division Mr R. A. Daly, Executive Member, Export Development Grants Board Mr P. Sparkes, Principal Executive Officer, Commodities No. 1 Division
Mr R. Vine, Assistant Secretary, Commodities No. 2 Division Dr J. A. Brooks, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Uranium Division Dr E. C. Druce, Acting Assistant Secretary, Uranium Division Mr P. L. Webb, Acting Assistant Secretary, Trade Policy Division
Mr F. E. Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Trade Promotion and Services Division Mr G. J. Hall, Assistant Secretary, Trade Promotion and Services Division Mr G. L. V. Hooton, Acting Chairman, Australian Uranium Export Office Mr J. B. Gregory, Acting Principal Adviser, Economic and Policy Division
Department o f Finance— Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83: Division 640-646—Department of Trade and Resources (Document B) Division 963—Department of Trade and Resources (Document C)
129
Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981 -82: Division 640 644 and 963—Department of Trade and Resources (Document D) The Committee concluded its considerations of the Particulars of Proposed Expendi ture, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Depart ment of Trade and Resources.
4. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable F. M. Chaney, Minister for Social Security, as sisted by Senator the Honourable Dame Margaret Guilfoyle, Minister for Finance and Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, representing the
Minister for Industry and Commerce, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Industry and Commerce— Mr D. O’Connor, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr R. J. Carmody, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr G. N. Steele, First Assistant Secretary, Tariff Division Mr R. O. Hoppe, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Policy Division 1 Mr R. D. Beale, First Assistant Secretary, Housing and Construction Division Mr P. A. Murphy, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Mr D. J. Smedley, Acting Assistant Secretary, A.D.P. Branch Mr B. A. Bissaker, Assistant Secretary, Inspections and Controls Branch, Oper
ations Division Mr H. McMahon, Assistant Secretary, Inland Services Branch, Operations Division Mr L. G. Stroud, Assistant Secretary, Consultation and Liaison Branch, Policy
Division 1 Mr A. H. Steele, Assistant Secretary, Heavy Engineering and Shipbuilding Branch, Industry Division 2 Mr B. G. Hegarty, Assistant Secretary, Commerce and Small Business Branch,
Tertiary Division Australian Tourist Commission: Mr R. J. Angel, Assistant General Manager, Administration Department o f Finance—
Mr A. C. Harris, Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Divisions for consideration:
Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83: Division 400-401 —Department of Industry and Commerce (Document B) Division 921-933—Department of Industry and Commerce (Document C) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure for the Department of Industry and Commerce.
5. PARTICULARS OF PROPOSED EXPENDITURE 1982-83 FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRY.
Appearing: Senator the Honourable Tony Messner, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, as sisted by Senator the Honourable Peter Baume, Minister for Education and Senator the Honourable Sir John Carrick, Minister for National Development and Energy, representing the Minister for Primary Industry, accompanied by the following officers:
Department o f Primary Industry— MrG. L. Miller, Deputy Secretary
130
Mr A. E. Wallace, Principal Advisor, Executive Secretariat Mr T. J. Kelly, First Assistant Secretary, Operations Division Mr P. H. Langhorne, Assistant Secretary, Management Services Branch Mr D. D. R. Pearson, Director, Management Services Branch
Mr J. L. Smith, Assistant Secretary, Meat and Wool Division Mr N. D. Honan, First Assistant Secretary, Field Crops Division Mr G. Mackey, First Assistant Secretary, Forestry and Horticultural Crops Division
Dr R, Bain, First Assistant Secretary, Fisheries Division Mr D. D. Hussey, First Assistant Secretary, Development and Co-ordination Division Mr P. B. Allan, Assistant Secretary, Development and Co-ordination Division
Mr E. W. Muir, Assistant Secretary, Development and Co-ordination Division Mr J. G. Murray, Senior Asistant Director, Export Inspection Service Mr R. W. Gee, Director, Bureau of Animal Health Mr I. Davis, Acting Assistant Director, Bureau of Animal Health
Dr A. Stoeckel, Director, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Mr P. J. McMahon, Principal Executive Officer, Bureau of Agricultural Economics Mr J. C. Nicholls, Assistant Secretary, Dairy and Intensive Livestock Division Department of Finance—
Mr A. C. Harris: Assistant Secretary, Accounting and Supply Division The Chairman called on the following Division for consideration:
Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83: Division 490—Department of Primary Industry (Document B) The Committee resolved to write to the Minister for Primary Industry seeking a copy of a departmental memo, dated on or about 19 May 1982, informing the Minister that a
milk processing company had failed to honour an arrangement with the Reserve Bank of Australia for the repayment of certain funds.
Senator Walsh moved—That the Committee writes to the Minister for Primary Industry and asks him if the Department of Primary Industry was warned that PT Indomilk was in danger of becoming insolvent and going into liquidation.
Question—put.
The Committee divided— AYES, 3 Senators Foreman Primmer
Walsh
NOES, 2 Senators Archer Scott And so it was resolved in the affirmative.
The Committee resumed consideration of:
Particulars of Proposed Expenditure 1982-83: Division 490-497—Department of Primary Industry (Document B) Division 930-933—Department of Primary Industry (Document C)
131
Advance to the Minister for Finance 1981 -82: Division 494—Department of Primary Industry (Document D) The Committee concluded its consideration of the Particulars of Proposed Expenditure, and Expenditure under the Advance to the Minister for Finance for the Department of Primary Industry.
6. ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 10.30 p.m.
7. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator Archer (Chairman), Senators Foreman, Lajovic, Primmer, Scott and Walsh. Senator McLaren also attended.
BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman
132
THE SENATE
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE H
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
No. 11
WEDNESDAY, 13 OCTOBER 1982
. MEETING: The Committee met in deliberative session at 6.35 p.m. in Senate 'ommittee Room 3. The Chairman (Senator Archer) took the Chair.
:. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES: The Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting leld on 16 September 1982 were read and confirmed.
I. REPORT OF COMMITTEE: The Committee considered the Chairman’s draft Report to the Senate. The draft was adopted with amendment to paragraph 3 dealing vith a letter written to the Minister for Primary Industry.
k ADJOURNMENT: The Committee adjourned at 6.40 p.m.
i. ATTENDANCE: The following members of the Committee were present: Senator krcher (Chairman), Senators Foreman, Lajovic, Primmer, Scott and Walsh.
BRIAN R. ARCHER Chairman
133