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Transcript of joint press conference with representatives of the Australia-Indonesia Ministerial Council on Law and Security: Jakarta, Indonesia: 21 December 2015: counter-terrorism; cyber security; international crime cooperation

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Senator the Hon George Brandis QC Attorney-General

The Hon Michael Keenan MP Minister for Justice

Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Counter Terrorism

Luhut Panjaitan

Indonesian Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs

Badrodin Haiti

Indonesian Chief of National Police

Cody Sutiyoso

Indonesian Chief of National Intelligence


Monday, 21 December 2015

Australia-Indonesia Ministerial Council on Law and Security press conference Jakarta, Indonesia

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Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Good afternoon, we just recently completed a bilateral meeting attended by two Australian Government representatives, the Attorney General who is similar as the Coordinating Minister and the Minister for Justice, who covers issues of counter-terrorism and their Chief of Intelligence and also the Australian Chief of Police. From the Indonesian side there is myself as Coordinating Minister and the Minister of Justice Mr. Loli and then there is the Indonesian Chief of Police and the Chief of BIN then there is also the Head of BAIS and BNPT and there is also the Head of PPATK. There are three issues that we talked about, the first one is about counter-terrorism, the second is about cyber security and third we talked about intelligent cooperation. So these three areas and this is according to Mr. George as Attorney General of Australia. The first meeting, historical meeting, because this is the first time we have a meeting that is so complete. This will be made into a regular meeting, and the implementation will soon go ahead and next year Mr. George Attorney General will invite our atakus (special envoy) to Australia. But in the meantime we will soon translate this meeting into technical cooperation where by the implementation of will be enjoyed by both countries. I think that is all from me, please Mr George to give your comment.

Attorney-General: Thank you very much indeed Pak Luhut. This is, as you rightly say, a very important meeting, indeed an historic meeting. It is the inaugural meeting of a new element of the bilateral architecture for cooperation between Indonesia and Australia; the Ministerial Council on Law and Security. It comes on a day when, in Sydney, another very, very important element of that architecture, the 2+2 Meeting on Defence and Strategic Cooperation is meeting. And these two Ministerial Councils reflect the depth and the strength of the relationship between our two great countries. This particular Ministerial Council, the Ministerial Council on Law and Security, is focussed on domestic matters and the domestic matters about which we have common concerns. In particular, and this has been the focus of our discussions this morning, the problem posed to both of our systems by terrorism, particularly by ISIS-inspired terrorism. As we agreed during our conversations this morning, this is not merely a problem that exists in the Middle East. It is a problem that both of our countries are very vulnerable to, and therefore as friends and neighbours it is important that we cooperate with one another in sharing intelligence, in operational cooperation, in technical cooperation, in sharing what we have to learn from one another in order to confront a common threat.

The meeting we’ve had this morning has not merely been a discussion about terrorism in a general way. It has been a practical and specific discussion. Pak Luhut has referred to the senior officials from the Indonesian state who have joined us in the discussions this morning. From Australia, my ministerial colleague Michael Keenan and I have been joined by the Director-General of Intelligence, General Duncan Lewis; the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police, Commissioner Andrew Colvin; the Australian Counter-Terrorism Coordinator, Mr Greg Moriarty; Australia’s Counter-Terrorism Ambassador, Mr Miles Armitage; the Secretary of the Attorney-General’s Department, Mr Chris Moraitis and other senior officials. So what we’ve seen this morning here in Jakarta is a coming together, at both a Ministerial and at a senior officials’ level, of all the key figures in our two countries whose obligation it is to protect our people, to keep our communities safe from the menace of terrorism. We’ve agreed on certain specific measures of the kind that Pak Luhut has outlined. We have furthermore agreed to certain implementation steps including the establishment of joint working groups to give effect to those measures that we have agreed to. And we have agreed, importantly, to constitute this body, this Ministerial Council, on a permanent annual footing. The next meeting will be in Sydney next year, and thereafter it will continue to play an important role, as I said at the start, in the architecture of bilateral cooperation between our two countries.

Minister Keenan: Thank you Pak Luhut. It’s good to be here with yourself and the Attorney-General for this inaugural Ministerial Council. The rise of ISIS in the Middle East is something that has destabilised the security of Australia, it’s destabilised the security of Indonesia and it’s destabilised the security of our friends and partners but particularly here in the region. It’s vitally important that we work together to counter it and that’s what this morning’s Ministerial Council has been about - greater sharing of intelligence, greater law enforcement cooperation, making sure that we’re doing all we can to counter terrorism financing, and importantly, ways that we can work together to counter the virulent and violent message that is put out by ISIS in the Middle East, particularly over social media. It was reinforced today about the importance of Indonesia’s model, the model of the world’s largest Muslim majority country, but still pluralist, still a vibrant democracy, and a very successful model that needs to be exported to the rest of the world.

It’s been great to be back in Jakarta after a visit here in August, and we look forward to doing all we can to further enhance what is a vitally important bilateral relationship and making sure that we can secure the security of both Australia and Indonesia.

Chief Haiti: (remarks in Indonesian) Thank you Mr Luhut, I would like to add that the cooperation so far between the police is already in place between the Indonesian National Police and the AFP in the field of trans national crime especially in people smuggling, trafficking in persons, counter terrorism and a few other transnational crimes. Therefore, it is coordinated so that it further strengthens the existing cooperation between the police to police, especially in the field of counter terrorism. Thank you, sir.

Mr Sutiyoso: (remarks in Indonesian) Media friends, I would like to add that before this event a few months ago I had visited Australia and I've been cooperating with their intelligence. The form is by student exchange, intelligence and training, and also exchange information about terrorism. You need to know that after my (visit to) Australia I've visited many countries, yes to China, America also to Malaysia, and there was a meeting, later in Turkey and also the last one in Paris. In all intelligent community the theme is always how to fight terrorism together, meaning that at this time terrorism is considered as the common enemy of the world, so we are working together and complementing each other, filling in each others shortages and in future the application will be joint operations between us. Thanks.

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) I think that was clear. So now with this official meeting like this then our cooperation, the cooperation between our two countries will be more solid. So we can solve many problems quickly and to be honest it will avoid possibilities of frictions like in the past because in these intensive meetings we will be able to share many things from our two great countries. I think that is all. Maybe there are questions from all of you?

Question: Adam Harvey, ABC, can you tell me please what role did Australia play in providing information for these recent arrests that we’ve seen coverage of, and would that information sharing have been possible in earlier, I suppose icier, times when the relationship between Indonesia and Australia was not so good?

Minister Panjaitan: Yes, I think we can’t talk details about the kind of intelligence that we can share but of course the intelligence focuses on benefitting the two countries. I cannot disclose to you what kind of intelligence, but I think our intelligence agencies and the Australian agencies have been working very closely, not only on the sharing of information and intelligence but also training, exchanges and many other things that can also be pursued in the near future.

Attorney-General: Could I just add to what Pak Luhut has said? The Australian and Indonesian intelligence and policing agencies do enjoy a strong relationship. It’s the purpose of today’s meeting to deepen and strengthen what is already a strong relationship, and that relationship at a policing level does include, where appropriate, the exchange of relevant criminal intelligence but beyond that it wouldn’t be appropriate to say.

Question: Senator Brandis you referred to the meeting having resulted in specific outcomes, could you tell us what those specific outcomes were?

Attorney-General: Well the specific measures relate to a commitment, the details of which of course I’m not going to disclose, but to enhance our levels of cooperation in relation to cyber, in relation to intelligence sharing, in relation to certain aspects of technical cooperation, including terrorism financing, and in relation to certain operational matters at an agency level. As I said in answer to the previous question, that level of cooperation has been good, but it’s certainly the case that it can be improved, and as a result of today’s meeting it will be improved. We have established certain working groups at an officials’ level which will meet in the near future to provide the specific technical agreements that will

give effect to the decisions we have made. Today, our objective is that there should be as much sharing of intelligence in relation to terrorism between Australia and Indonesia as there can be to the benefit of both countries.

Question: Hi Pak Luhut, my question was regarding the arrest of the terrorism suspects over the weekend and to what extent you’re concerned about a possible terrorist attack over Christmas and New Year despite these arrests.

Minister Panjaitan: Well I think Pak Haiti will also give a comment on that, but let me put it like this. We received quite intensive, detailed intelligence on the possibility of an attack in the near future so we put Indonesia on quite a high alert, especially at the airport and some strategic points. But so far we have successfully monitored all these activities - I think Badrodin could give a more detailed report on that. I’m not saying we’re immune, no country is immune from terrorist attacks, but I can assure you that we’re working very hard to tackle this issue and so far we’ve done so successfully. Badrodin maybe you want to add something.

Chief Haiti: In the last month we got information about the extent of the terrorist threat in Indonesia for December, for Jakarta, Central Java and other places in Java. We got information with the tech and we also got information from the AFP, FBI and from Singapore. We proceeded to monitor the network of suspected terrorists and in the last three days we arrested nine terrorist suspects that were planning to take action at the end of December. So now the suspects are under interrogation and investigation by the police.

Question: (inaudible)

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Yes, indeed there are, what the name implies, the information and we are discussing because it is not as simple as that because Australia sharing the information, that there are support from Australia. Yes, we hope that we will be able to obtain more detailed information from PPATK and also from the Australian side.

Question: (inaudible)

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Ah, we didn’t discuss in detail. There are technical meetings below. Others, please

Question: (question in Indonesian) Mr Luhut or Mr Haiti, could explain a little bit about efforts to improve security against what the upcoming this holiday season?

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Now, the police with the military, we have nearly 150,000 people we put in strategic places as a deterrent strategy and besides that also intelligence operations, we also monitor everything and third we also involve all elements of society to jointly report , informing when there are activities that are not common in that place.

Question: (inaudible)

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) No, we have not seen anything the connection. So it is still general. Please.

Question: (question in Indonesian) (inaudible) ..From, can you confirm whether it is true that there is information during Christmas Eve and New Year ’s Eve that there is a plan of bride and groom suicide bombing? Thank you.

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Actually, we don’t have any specific (indication) to that. But any possible information, we are very wary. Mr Chief of Police, you may want to add, please.

Chief Haiti: (remarks in Indonesian) Thank you, I will explain in full. Well, last month, the end of last month we received, we detected the presence of information about the actions in December by terrorist groups. Then the information was corroborated by AFP, from the FBI and then from Singapore. Then we took preventive steps, we imposed the alert one status, then we also took preventive measures, placing personnel whether open or closed all over the place where there are possible threats of terrorism. Then we follow and monitor everything besides constantly monitor the movement of groups that we have so far recorded, including international networks then we found some people that we suspect will commit acts in December. No specific mention of Christmas and New Year. Therefore we deepen (our investigation) up to 3 days from the date of 18, 19, 20 we arrested nine terrorists who we expect will perform certain acts and we've conducted searches, and found explosives that would have to be assembled in advance. Well, they are ex-JI - Jemaah Islamiyah - then there is also a connection with ISIS so we are currently processing this, we have a week to determine whether we will process them further or release them. Thanks.

Question: (question in Indonesian) (inaudible) ... for the target itself the police have said there were three, right? Including the government and then vital buildings - what does this cover? And the third is other Islamic groups that are not in line, what does this mean sir? And are foreigners still one of the targets? Thank you, sir.

Chief Haiti: (remarks in Indonesian) First I would like to explain that the targets are Police officials, including the Densus and also ex-Densus. Then the second was Police offices, then the third is particular groups confirmed it is the Shia group. But we have done coordination. We must anticipate not only the mentioned target but all of that could be terrorist targets we will tighten the security. Whether it's vital projects as well as places of public gathering including officials - state officials.

Question: (question in Indonesian) (inaudible)…are they still targets, Sir?

Chief Haiti: (remarks in Indonesian) We can’t deny that almost all people in Indonesia have the potential to become terrorist targets, of course we will anticipate.

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) Anything else? I add a little, yes, so we have not yet received information as stated earlier by the Chief of National Police, that there is specific target to foreigners. This is important for me to underline that we have not seen it going there but we are aware of it so we will not ignore that it can later become their target. Please. If nothing else?

Question: (question in Indonesian) About the people that was arrested, the nine, can you describe who they are a little bit? More clearly.

Chief Haiti: (remarks in Indonesian) The person's name or because earlier I mentioned that these are groups. The first arrest were in the Cilacap region, then the second in Tasikmalaya, the third in Sukoarjo, then fourth in Mojokerto then fifth in Gresik. They are former Jemaah Islamiyah. There is also

correlation with ISIS. I will mention their identity; the first R, yes, is this what you mean? Yes. The first R, second YS, this is in Pekanbaru. Then the third is AR - this is in Tasik. Then ZA, the fourth - in Tasik. Then there is MKA in Mojokerto, then the next TP, then IM - in Mojokerto then in Gresik is JA. Then in Central Java - AK aka Aji. There nine. Thank you.

Minister Panjaitan: (remarks in Indonesian) I think that is the explanation. I hope our journalists friends also help us to provide information if there are strange things seen so that our country remains safe unlike anywhere else. That is all and thank you. Good afternoon.