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Thursday, 30 August 1906

Senator MILLEN (New South, Wales) .- Having disposed of the amend- ment by ruling it out of order, you, Mr. Chairman, have relieved me from the necessity of appealing to the Committee not to advertise to the world that our popular education system has been an absolute failure. I really think that Senator Pearce is under a little misapprehension.

Senator Findley - I rise to order. Has it not been ruled that Senator Pearce's amendment is out of order?

Senator MILLEN - I am sure the Committee will bear with me when I say that I am not discussing the amendment. I thought that Senator Pearce was under a misapprehension as to what the clause meant. The impetuosity of my energetic friend, Senator Findley, should be re- strained.

Senator PEARCE (WESTERN AUSTRALIA) - If I were under a misapprehension I should not go to the honorable senator for an explanation.

Senator MILLEN - I wish to take up the illustration which Senator Pearce gave in order to show how defective the clause is. If it is a good illustration, it furnishes a reason for voting against the clause. But if it is wanting in substance, as I think it is, the clause can be safely passed, quite irrespective of the amendment which has been ruled out of order. The honorable senator took the case of a shipment of ladies' boots, and assumed that all that would be entered in the certificate^ of the Comptroller-General would be "ladies' boots." But, clearly, that is not so.

Senator Pearce - If only boots of that class were being dumped, that is all that would be stated in the certificate.

Senator MILLEN - What would appear in the certificate would be not " ladies' boots," but " twenty cases of ladies' boots." That is a point which the honorable senator has overlooked.

Senator Pearce - That is the same thing stated in another way.

Senator MILLEN - When we refer to sub-clause 5 5, we find no ambiguity about what would be involved. It would apply to the shipment of ladies' boots which .were then metaphorically before the Court, and not to all1 shipments of ladies' boots. All that the Court would have to deal with would be a complaint against, say. William Brown in respect of a shipment of twenty cases of ladies' boots.

Senator Pearce - But the prohibition might aaffect other shipments.

Senator MILLEN - The only mmatter before the Court would be that shipment.

Senator Pearce - The prohibition might say that no further shipments would be allowed.

Senator MILLEN - No order which the Court could give could affect any other goods.

Senator Pearce - Could not the prohibition say that no further shipments of those boots would be allowed ?

Senator MILLEN - Certainly not:

Senator PEARCE (WESTERN AUSTRALIA) - Then what is the value of. the dumping provision? Would there be a separate prosecution in each case of dumping?

Senator MILLEN - Exactly.

Senator Pearce - I do not think so.

Senator MILLEN - Does the honorable senator mean to say that we are to have a prosecution against a man unknown ?

Senator Pearce - One prosecution would settle all cases of that class.

Senator MILLEN - The honorable senator is quite right ; because if William Brown were penalized for attempting importation under those circumstances, other importers would cease their operations immediately. When a decision on a point is given in a Court, what happens? Other persons do not test the point.

Senator Drake - But if the goods were on the way the authorities would have to make a fresh complaint against each importer.

Senator MILLEN - Exactly. Each shipment which was complained of would have to be the subject of a specific inquiry ; each .person who was complained of would have to be brought before the Court, and would have an opportunity to state his case, and judgment would be given regarding that person and that shipment. For that reason, it is impossible to alter the clause with advantage.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 20 agreed to.

Clause 21 -

1.   The Justice shall proceed to expeditiously and carefully investigate and determine the matter, and for the .purpose of the proceeding shall have power to inquire as to any goods, things, and matter whatsoever which he considers perinent, nnecessary, or material.

8.   In the case of the following agricultural implements : - Ploughs of all kinds' over ri cwt., tine harrows, disc harrows, grain drills,* com. med R grain seed and manure drills, land rollers, cultivators, chaff cutlers, seed cleaners, stripper harvesters, and any other implement usually used in agriculture, the Justice shall inquire into and. determine the question whether the goods are being imported with the effect of benefiting the primary producers without unfairly injuring any other section of the community of the Commonwealth.

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