COPELIN, Ms Janine, Managing Director, Asia Pacific, Oceania and Africa, Prosegur

LYNCH, Mr Gavin, National Workplace Relations Manager, Prosegur

NATHAN, Mr Andrew, Commercial Director, Prosegur

[13:04]

CHAIR: Welcome. I apologise for being a little tardy on our time lines, and I hope that you don't have a plane that you need to rush off and catch. I will now give you the opportunity to make an opening statement before we go to questions.

Ms Copelin : I thank the committee for the opportunity to appear today. This year, we're celebrating our 75th anniversary as a provider of cash-in-transit services to the Australian community. Having previously been a division of Brambles and then the Chubb Cash in Transit division, the business was purchased by Prosegur Cash Security SA in December 2013. In Australia, Prosegur operates over 200 vehicles and has over 1,000 employees. We're committed to the viability and sustainability of the CIT industry in Australia and, most importantly, the workplace safety, wellbeing and fair reward of our employees. We see the sustainability of cash as a form of exchange being vital for businesses and communities across Australia. Beyond our objective of creating employment and facilitating businesses in Australia, we are taking a leading role in charting a course in the future of cash in the economy through advocacy, product development and customer engagement. We have outlined concerns with claims made before this committee at a recent hearing in March and believe that these unsubstantiated claims abuse the processes and intent of this inquiry in order to achieve the commercial objectives of our competitor Armaguard. We thank the committee for publishing our response to these claims, and we note that some of the claims have since been withdrawn.

With the committee's indulgence, we would like to reiterate: Prosegur does and always has paid at or above award rate of pay and ensures that standards and conditions are sustainable for the company, its employees and other stakeholders. Prosegur received JobKeeper in line with many businesses in Australia, whether ultimately domestically or foreign owned; we ceased receiving JobKeeper payments in September last year. Prosegur does not run loss-leading models in any country, and assertions that our global parent employs such practices are unsubstantiated and fly in the face of any evidence. Prosegur has had historically, and continues to have, the highest safety standards in the industry. As an example of this, we're the only operator in the cash-in-transit industry to require all of our armoured vehicle operators to wear personal body armour. We do this at considerable expense, in order to ensure that our employees are safe while performing their duties. We believe that one of the key tenets of the continued viability of the cash-in-transit sector is continued competition in the marketplace. We oppose any government intervention to move the industry towards a monopoly provision of services, as has been suggested by some in the industry. We believe that the future of the industry is served by having healthy competition that offers the best of services for our existing customers and for new customers. Thank you for this opportunity. We will be pleased to answer any questions.

CHAIR: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to add anything?

Mr Nathan : Not at this stage.

CHAIR: Senator McDonald, do you have any questions? I do have a couple.

Senator McDONALD: No.

CHAIR: Thank you. I did give you the opportunity to come before the committee, so thank you very much. I don't think a lot needs to be said; but, with the spat that you have had with your competitors, you have been given the opportunity to correct a few wrongs there, and that's fine. I will ask this: with the way that the use of cash is diminishing in Australia—we've seen figures—where are we going to end up? In your submission, you've told us that you are major investors in fleet and personnel and your competitors are major investors in fleet and personnel, and you're all fighting over the same pot. Where is this going to lead us?

Ms Copelin : Definitely, the viability of cash in transit is dependent on where cash does end up in society. If you look at the trends, you'll see that, even before COVID, there was a consistent decline of cash within Australia; that's absolutely not questionable. When COVID came, it reduced our business by more than 50 per cent, and it certainly hasn't bounced back to pre-COVID days. A lot of businesses throughout COVID had signs up saying, 'Cash is not the prepared method of payment anymore.' I think the best thing that we can do in this industry is to invest in technology that makes cash an efficient form of payment for use by small, medium and large businesses. I know that Prosegur globally invests more than $100 million, and some of that comes back into Australia. With the likes of the machines that Woolworths and Coles use in their front of house, life has changed; we don't get someone else to scan our groceries, and the form of payment has changed completely. Where it's going to end up, I think, is speculative at best at this moment. It has plateaued since COVID, and it had reached an equilibrium just slightly before COVID; so I don't think cash is leaving our complete environment in Australia. If you think about what we face around business continuity in Australia, with floods and fires, technology can go down in the blink of an eye and there needs to be some reliable form of payment, so cash is going to have its place. New Zealand, with a population of approximately 4.5 million, still has two major competitors in its market. Australia is circa 24 million, and I do think it would be disappointing to see us get to a place where large, small and medium businesses can't have a competitive bid process and where they have only one option to go for.

CHAIR: Sure; no worries. I'm not going to keep you for long, because you have cleared out everything that you needed to clear out, I think. Mr Lynch, you've said that you're head of human resources.

Mr Lynch : Yes, workplace relations.

CHAIR: I'm sorry; workplace relations. I have to ask this question, because I was sitting here earlier on—I have been at every hearing, actually—and your competitors did say that their wages rates range from 38 per cent, depending on what state they are in; what can you tell us? I tell you why. I know of the Chubb business and the Brambles businesses; I never had anything to do with them, but I know of them. Ms Copelin, when you say that you pay at award or near award—

Ms Copelin : At or above.

CHAIR: Actually above, here's your chance to correct the record or to clarify any misgivings that I may have as the chair of this committee.

Ms Copelin : Certainly, and I will refer that question to Gavin.

Mr Lynch : It's probably not appropriate or helpful for us to compare base rates of pay between us and our competitor.

CHAIR: No, I'm not asking you to do that, Mr Lynch. I'm sorry; I'll make it easier for you. Are you paying award or over award, or is it a mixture of bits and pieces?

Mr Lynch : We're paying above award.

CHAIR: I'm sorry; I'm making it easier for you, I think. You don't have to hang yourself; you can, if you want to, but I want to get to lunch soon. Anyway, if you have enterprise agreements, they're all on the computer, and I can just go there on the internet and find them.

Mr Lynch : Yes. We pay at or above award rates in all situations. The vast majority of our employees are on registered enterprise bargaining agreements, so they're all available; they're all reviewed and registered by the Fair Work Commission. In some locations, we're paying up to 50 per cent above award rates, but no-one in our business is paid below an award rate.

CHAIR: No, I'm not suggesting that for one minute. That's fine; that's great. How many sections of the business are at award, and where are they?

Mr Lynch : I don't have an exact number. Probably two regional depots would be at award. I don't have the exact number of employees, but we're talking about over 95 per cent of our employees being at above an award rate.

CHAIR: You can take this one on notice. It depends on how far you want to defend your own business but, if you could provide to the committee—I don't want to know names, pack drills or anything like that—a comparison of your metro sites regarding how much above the award they are, it would be very helpful for the committee.

Mr Lynch : Sure.

CHAIR: I don't want anything other than that.

Mr Nathan : Just for context, we have 26 depots, if you're thinking about percentages.

CHAIR: I understand that. I also understand that you have rural and you have regional. On that, there may be something else you wish to add. I know that you have made the effort to come all the way up.

Ms Copelin : We appreciate the opportunity to put the record right with factual information, so thank you for taking the time to allow us to do that.

CHAIR: Thank you. So you have nothing further to add. That was painless, wasn't it?

Ms Copelin : It was painless.

Mr Nathan : It was. We'd be happy to do it again.

Mr Lynch : Thank you.

Ms Copelin : Thanks, Chair.

CHAIR: Thank you very much; and travel safely.