CHAIR —Welcome. Would you like to make an opening statement?

Councillor Brown —Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this inquiry. I believe that what I have to contribute is along the same lines as previous witnesses. Peak Downs shire is a rural local government covering an area of more than 8,000 square kilometres. There are two towns: Capella and Tieri. The shire has a total population of around 4,000. When the Queensland government announced their intention to undertake major reform of local government, public meetings were held in the two towns and some 450 residents attended out of a total elector population of 1,752. At that time, there was some confidence that none of the so-called reasons for change that centred on financially sustainability would result in change to Peak Downs Shire Council, as it was assessed by the Queensland Treasury Corporation as being in the top 10 per cent of councils in terms of financial position and management, and there were no compelling reasons for any change. I will repeat that: Peak Downs Shire Council was assessed by the Queensland Treasury Corporation as being in the top 10 per cent of councils in terms of financial position and management.

The sweeping changes that are to occur were never intended to be based upon any single or simple reasoning and instead were designed to move to regional rather than local government. Peak Downs Shire Council will become part of a 60,000 square kilometre council along with Bauhinia, Duaringa and Emerald shires. Members of our community were so concerned with the likely impact over time that the removal of a council would have on the businesses, schools and community and sporting groups that they called for the council to arrange a referendum on the matter. This of course is not an option because under the legislation the minister has the option of fining and dismissing councils that proceed with any poll relating to the referendum process. Although residents have offered to pay fines imposed on councillors, the dismissal of the council would preclude its participation in the transition process to the new regional council, where it is absolutely essential that our community is represented. The council has since been officially petitioned by residents to proceed with the poll. The successful conclusion of this inquiry and the passage of the bill through parliament will allow this to occur. I table for your information a copy of the petition and also my council’s submission to the Local Government Reform Commission.

Aside from the fact that the need for such drastic change was based on false and inaccurate reasoning and aside from the fact that councils such as Peak Downs Shire—that are already rated strong under what was a very tough assessment process—the real tragedy is that the principle of democracy has been eroded to a great extent under the legislation as it currently stands. Communities have a right to have a say in something so fundamental to their everyday lives. The laws introduced by the Queensland government preventing any challenge and providing the minister for local government with the power to do whatever he wishes in relation to local transition committees—their membership and the reform process—add further insult in what surely must be amongst the most draconian laws ever introduced by any government in Australia’s history. Certainly the Queensland government would not accept major changes to state boundaries or any proposal to merge states—it would require a community referendum. And so it should be with local government.

On behalf of my community, I thank the committee for the opportunity to record my support for the Commonwealth Electoral Amendment (Democratic Plebiscites) Bill 2007, which is the subject of this inquiry. I implore members to consider any other support they can provide for those communities that clearly demonstrate through the proper conduct of a poll that they do not support the proposed changes.

CHAIR —Thank you, Mayor Brown.

Senator MURRAY —In my view, the issue of whether there should or should not be amalgamations has not been contentious with witnesses. Witnesses are saying that, with respect to their particular shire, there is no evidence that there would be a benefit from the amalgamation and there are clear social and economic arguments against their particular amalgamation. Am I accurate in believing that you can see that, in certain circumstances, changing boundaries or amalgamations would be wise or appropriate in particular shires and councils?

Councillor Brown —Premier Beattie says he is going down this process to create stronger shires, in particular in Central Queensland where there are the mining communities. Peak Downs shire has been dealing with mining communities since 1980.

Senator MURRAY —Elsewhere in Queensland, if there is a good reason for amalgamation, you are not opposed in principle to that, are you?

Councillor Brown —I am not opposed to amalgamation in other shires where it is obviously necessary.

Senator MURRAY —Good. Therefore, with respect to your own shire, I have had the opportunity to see just one extract—but maybe there are others around—from the Local Government Reform Commission, which is the Southern Downs Regional Council recommendation from the commission. To my mind that was almost all generic—macro. It was not micro or local. There was no cost-benefit analysis and there was no evidence that I could see that would truly establish that the case had been made for that particular amalgamation. Based on the Local Government Reform Commission’s decision on Emerald, is there any factual evidence on a cost-benefit basis, economic or social, that the amalgamation is desirable for your shire?

Councillor Brown —Firstly, I would like to dispute information in that document. On that very front page it states that Peak Down shire has a debt of $1 million. That is totally incorrect. We have absolutely no debt and we have in the order of $16 million in the bank.

Senator MURRAY —If there are basic factual errors on which a recommendation has been made to the state government, let us assume they accepted the recommendation in good faith. If the state government’s decision is based on errors of assessment, surely there should be an appeal process.

Councillor Brown —There should be an appeal process. We have no right of appeal under the legislation as it stands, I believe.

Senator MURRAY —If there were to be an appeal process instituted, would your council be willing to fund and process an appeal based on the fact that the evidence within this does not justify the decision they have come to?

Councillor Brown —Yes.

Senator MURRAY —I have not read this; I have read the one I referred to earlier. Is this of the same kind as the other recommendation? In other words, they are generalisations. They are what I would describe as macro concepts—concepts which are theoretical, such as structural efficiencies, skills knowledge bases and all that. It does not have specifics that relate to a reason why your particular shire should be changed in the way they propose.

Councillor Brown —I do not believe that our submission to the commission was taken into consideration as well as it should have been.

Mr Lindeman —The one specific reason they did give for the Central Highlands councils is that we are dealing with big business in terms of mining companies and, therefore, we needed to be a big council with clout. The reality is, of course, it will be the same sort of people around the table dealing with those same mining companies irrespective of the size of the councils. But that was the one distinction they drew to the Central Highlands councils as opposed to the other generic, similar type of recommendations.

Senator MURRAY —They should come and have a look at one of our shires over in Western Australia—the Shire of Roebourne, which takes in Karratha—which produces 16 per cent, I think it is, of Australia’s export output. It does not make any difference whether you are dealing with the big boys; they go over your head. That is just an aside. My point to all of you is that, as a person, I would accept that there is a case for amalgamations in certain circumstances, and it is not for me to judge. My point is that, if the decision is made on evidence which does not stack up and is in error or is inadequate, a council or a person should be entitled to appeal that decision. I just want to confirm that, if there were an appeal process, you would appeal.

Councillor Brown —We would appeal. We do not believe that the evidence stacks up in any way, shape or form.

Senator MURRAY —Thank you.

Senator MOORE —Gentlemen, were you here before lunch?

Councillor Brown —Yes.

Mr Lindeman —Yes.

Senator MOORE —So you know what I am going to ask.

Councillor Brown —Yes.

Senator MOORE —The role of this committee is to look at the 3½ pages of legislation in front of us. Our role is not to look at the rights and wrongs of council amalgamations, but we are really interested—I hope, as a whole committee—in the plebiscite aspect of the process. In terms of the legislation that is in front of us, has your council, Peak Downs, given consideration to how you may use that locally?

Councillor Brown —The plebiscite?

Senator MOORE —The plebiscite, yes.

Councillor Brown —We would love to run a plebiscite. I would like to think that whatever comes back is taken on what comes back, and those that do not come back, to my way of thinking, those people are not interested at all but should not be seen as not caring. They might not care but if it were an election for council they would not be counted. So I think those that come back are the ones that should be counted.

Senator MOORE —That is in terms of the process. Mayor, have you been at the Local Government Association conference?

Councillor Brown —Yes.

Senator MOORE —My understanding is that there has been some discussion at the group about how any plebiscite would operate.

Councillor Brown —I am sorry but we had to leave before that.

Senator MOORE —We will be talking with Local Government Association people on Monday but, in terms of your understanding, how do you think it will operate? How would you like it to operate?

Councillor Brown —We would like it to operate along the lines we heard earlier this morning, where it is done by the Australian Electoral Commission in consultation with the Local Government Association, and as a poll.

Senator MOORE —In terms of the process, it seems to me we have seen no guidelines. All we have as a committee is the legislation and the explanatory memorandum that goes with it. The proposal that you are facing as a shire is amalgamation with three other councils. Is that right?

Councillor Brown —That is right.

Senator MOORE —I am not quite sure how it is going to operate—whether the question will go to all four councils that are part of it. That degree of detail I do not know. For the record, how do you think it should operate? There are four key neighbouring councils that have been recommended in this proposal to go together. If there is a plebiscite—which I understand will have to be stimulated council by council; it would be each council’s decision as to whether they want to take part in it or not—how do you think it would work across the four that would be involved?

Councillor Brown —With the submissions to the reform commission, the four councils concerned work very well together. We are in what we call the Central Highlands Development Corporation. We have a long history of being very good friends and working very well together. All four submissions said that we wish to stay as we are. So it is of no concern to me that this will go to the other councils. I would gladly like to think that the other three councils will get it.

Senator MOORE —To reinforce it for the record, you know that this piece of legislation has got full cross-party support?

Councillor Brown —That is right.

Senator MOORE —We expect that after the report goes back next week it will be passed at the Commonwealth level—just to ensure that people know that. I have one other question on constitutional recognition of local government. Do any of you think that would work and do you support it?

Councillor Brown —It is a principle that we believe in, but we are very aware that there are many pitfalls and there is a lot to be sorted out before it can happen.

Senator MOORE —So it is not an immediate kind of thing; it is something for the future.

Councillor Brown —It would have been great if we had it.

Senator MOORE —I think a few people are saying that now, Mayor—that where the responsibilities are clearly defined, it would be useful to have it there. But it is something for the future. Councillor Walker or Mr Lindeman, do you have any comments on anything?

Mr Lindeman —We are pleased to see that there is major party support for local government recognition in the constitution, but we really need to see what the meat is behind that. It is all right to say, ‘Yes, be recognised,’ but what does that essentially mean? I think it should be on the table now and we should be working towards putting it in front of the Australian people again. I am sure, with the support of all the major parties, it will be a little more successful than the previous couple of times.

Senator MOORE —We can but hope, Mr Lindeman.

Mr Lindeman —Yes.

Senator MOORE —Councillor Walker?

Councillor Walker —I just agree with what Don and John have said—that it should go ahead.

Senator MOORE —Councillor Walker, how long have you been a councillor?

Councillor Walker —Over 10 years.

Senator MOORE —And Mayor Brown?

Councillor Brown —On 15 March it will be 23 years; 16 years as mayor.

Senator MOORE —You have a few of those certificates from the LGA about your service.

Councillor Brown —I have some of those.

Senator MOORE —So it is extended community service that you have provided.

Councillor Brown —Yes.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —How do you describe Peak Downs shire? Is it a mining or pastoral shire, or what?

Councillor Brown —Initially it was very much a rural shire. The mining came in around about 1980 with some disruption, I might say. In 1993 we had a new Local Government Act in Queensland that allowed councils to become contractors. That has been a very big benefit to our shire. The days of the mining company bringing a free breakfast ticket with them are gone. We have been able to work in with the mining companies. We have a very good working relationship with mining companies and we do a lot of contract work at the mines. We have established a quarry that brings in a lot of money each year, in the order of $1 million. We do water for the mine sites. We have builders that do building work. It has been a big benefit to the Peak Downs shire having the ability to be contractors and to have that mining industry within our shire. It is probably the biggest reason why we are so fluid.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —So you get a wealth from the mines beyond rates.

Councillor Brown —Simply because we get off our butts and go out there and work for it. I think that is something that is not done by a lot of shires, but we have taken a business focus and it has been very beneficial to our shire.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —In Peak Downs, do you run a lot of the community facilities, or even the business facilities, where there is a dearth of market forces with businesses?

Councillor Brown —We do not do a lot of town businesses. That is all run by private enterprise. We do a lot of the community facilities. We have a 500-seat cultural centre. We have an aquatic centre where, if you wish, you can come up and set a world record; it is measured and has electronic timing.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —I could not do that these days.

Councillor Brown —Nor me either. We have a covered arena that is one of the best in Australia, I would say, and we do a lot of community work. We believe that, should be amalgamated, a lot of that might go by the way.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Do you see any benefit at all from joining with Emerald and Bauhinia?

Councillor Brown —We do not see any benefit and, as I said earlier, we work very well with these people for resource sharing and all of those sorts of things. We do that and have been doing it for a number of years. The benefits that may be gained by amalgamation we are already enjoying through the Central Highlands Development Corporation.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —I asked some of the councillors who appeared before lunch this question: in very rough terms, do you or your CEO know what is the contribution of federal government funding through FAGS and Roads to Recovery and those sorts of things?

Mr Lindeman —It is in the order of 20 per cent.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —I take it that the rest of it is revenue from your activities, plus rates.

Mr Lindeman —Yes.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Do you get much from the state government?

Mr Lindeman —It depends. There are grants such as the Capital Works Subsidy Scheme, which is based on a percentage of projects undertaken, and that varies from year to year, accordingly.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —I do not know Peak Downs as well as I know some of the more western shires. Do you deliver many federal government services? For instance, are you involved in Home and Community Care the program?

Mr Lindeman —No, we are not.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Apart from Roads to Recovery, are there any other federal government activities that you are involved in? Are you involved with Centrelink?

Mr Lindeman —No. We do not have any of those services.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —What about rural transaction centres and those sorts of things?

Mr Lindeman —No.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Your reading of your community is that they desperately want to have an ability to have a say in their future; it that correct?

Mr Lindeman —I think it is fair to say that our community was very disappointed in council that we did not progress a poll because of the threat of dismissal or fines. They thought, ‘Well, you’re going to be sacked anyway so you might as well go out fighting and we’ll pay your fines.’ It was as simple as that.

Councillor Brown —Senator, I would like you to have taken some of the pain that I have had, being called ‘spineless’ and those sorts of things. As I said earlier, it is imperative that we be on this transition committee.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —I appreciate that. I think you have taken a courageous and sensible decision, and it was a difficult decision for you. The whole purpose of this federal legislation is so that you can do it without being criminals, effectively.

Senator FORSHAW —Mayor Brown, in your submission you have included this comment:

Would you expand on what you have in mind as to what that further intervention and reform would be based upon.

Councillor Brown —I dare say that the ball is in your court, but we want you to understand that we fully support the federal government if there are any other initiatives that it can think of that would further support us.

Senator FORSHAW —But do you have anything in mind?

Councillor Brown —Not at the present stage.

Senator FORSHAW —It has been pointed out that the current view is that the federal government—it does not matter which political persuasion—has constitutional limitations in making the decisions binding, and that just relates to the separation of power between state and federal governments. You have said, ‘... so that a proper and complete process could be undertaken to ensure reform will genuinely benefit residents.’ I wondered whether you may have had in mind some form of initiative by the federal government that might mirror or be along the lines that the state government was originally doing. I think it is the triple S process. Some others have said to us, ‘We want you to go further and make it binding.’ We cannot actually do that, but you are actually talking about a process that might be possible.

Councillor Brown —We firmly believe that the triple S process is the right process. We are not against amalgamations where they are deserved, but in our area we believe that that is simply not on.

Senator FORSHAW —I am just thinking off the top of my head and I need to give this some more thought, but we know that there have been Productivity Commission inquiries into aspects of local government. Whether or not you could have a complete inquiry into the issue of amalgamation, boundary changes and structure I am not sure, but under the federal constitutional power there may be some processes that could be initiated that do not go to determining the question of amalgamation but may assist.

Councillor Brown —I dare say that you people would know more about that than I do. I could not really answer that one, but we would dearly love to abandon the process as we see it and return to the SSS that we see as the right and just process.

Senator FORSHAW —The Local Government Association might be able to answer that.

Senator JOYCE —We heard from Senator Moore that this legislation, the Commonwealth Electoral Amendment (Democratic Plebiscites) Bill, has cross party support. What is your understanding of the words ‘cross party support’?

Councillor Brown —My understanding is that both parties in the federal sphere will support it and it will pass through.

Senator JOYCE —Those parties being?

Councillor Brown —The coalition and the Labor Party.

Senator JOYCE —The Labor Party. What party actually brought about the legislation that caused us to bring this bill in?

Councillor Brown —In Queensland?

Senator JOYCE —Yes.

Councillor Brown —It was the Labor Party.

Senator JOYCE —Do you find it rather perplexing that you have apparently two different forms of the same party in the same state?

Councillor Brown —That is a rough one.

Senator JOYCE —It is the obvious question that we have to ask all day, isn’t it? We have this ridiculous position where Mr Swan, Mr Rudd, Ms Livermore, Mr Bevis, Dr Emerson and Mr Ripoll—all from Queensland—have an entirely different position, yet they are all people from the same party, from the same state, as all the people who instigated the problem in the first place.

Councillor Brown —Obviously, they must have a reason for doing it.

Senator FORSHAW —Like Mr Scott and Senator Joyce on Telstra.

Senator JOYCE —How do you solve a political problem? What sort of solutions do you have to look for when you have a political problem on your hands? This has been brought about by a basically arbitrary, unnecessary, nasty decision. How do you solve a political problem?

Councillor Brown —If you take local government as being political, my understanding is that if I did something that did not suit the electors of my shire they would remove me at the next election.

Senator JOYCE —A political problem solved with a political solution. Can you see any pressure points coming up on the horizon that may be exerted that may encourage people to be a bit more active in trying to support your cause, and where might those political pressure points be?

Councillor Brown —I dare say that there probably would be. What you want me to say is that it is probably the federal election.

Senator MOORE —That is what he wants you to say.

Senator JOYCE —I have never suggested anything. Obviously it gets a rise. It is the issue that we are all dancing around.

Senator FORSHAW —Obviously you are very worried about the federal election.

Senator JOYCE —Thank you for those comments, Senator Forshaw from the Labor Party, which instigated this problem.

Senator FORSHAW —Very appreciative. You are welcome.

Senator JOYCE —Who are the members of the local transition committee and where do they come from?

Councillor Brown —There are two from each of the four shires involved—that is, two councillors—and we have three union people.

Senator JOYCE —Three union members? Where do they come from and who elected them?

Councillor Brown —It is in the terms that we got from the state government for the selection of the transition committee.

Senator JOYCE —How many people voted? Did you get to vote for these three union members?

Councillor Brown —I did not.

Senator JOYCE —So who did vote for them?

Councillor Brown —Well, it was not anybody in my shire.

Senator JOYCE —It seems a bit peculiar that they would have a big say in what happens to your shire and technically, I suppose, they do not even need to be from your shire.

Councillor Brown —No, they do not. But by the same token I would have thought that, on this issue, my council and the people that are representing our workforce would be working together to retain our workforce.

Senator JOYCE —It would be a consideration that 11,000 workers lost their jobs during the amalgamations in Victoria. You would suspect that their fervour to try and stop amalgamations would be paramount. Have you seen that?

Councillor Brown —Not in our local scene. We do not have that in our local area.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Just to interpose, do you know who the three union reps are going to be for your amalgamated shire?

Councillor Brown —We do. I will have to call on Don to give them names.

Mr Lindeman —Do you mean in terms of who they are representing?

Senator IAN MACDONALD —What they are rather than who they are. Are they from this area? Are they from your area? Are they from Emerald, Brisbane or wherever?

Mr Lindeman —There is a bit of a combination. There are representatives—as in the union organisers—of one of the unions. There are employees of Bauhinia shire and employees of Emerald shire that have been appointed by the other two unions.

Senator JOYCE —So they were appointed by unions?

Mr Lindeman —Yes.

Senator JOYCE —They just rang them up and said, ‘You’re on it.’

Mr Lindeman —They appointed their representatives across the state and advised the councils who they would be.

Senator IAN MACDONALD —So there is one mining union guy and two—

Mr Lindeman —There are the Australian Workers Union, the Australian Services Union and the Queensland Council of Unions.

Senator JOYCE —How many people in your shire voted for you, Mayor Brown?

Councillor Brown —I was appointed by my councillors.

Senator JOYCE —How many people voted in the council election?

Councillor Brown —There are 1,752 on the roll.

Senator JOYCE —1,752 people from the district appointed you and, to the best of your knowledge, no-one voted for any of the union representatives on the transitional committee?

Councillor Brown —To the best of my knowledge.

Senator JOYCE —It is an interesting form of democracy, that one. Give me your view of post amalgamation—if it goes through—and where the most likely detrimental effects will be.

Councillor Brown —We have some very serious concerns about our principal town, being Capella. The council has its funds in that bank. Obviously those funds and all assets become the property of the new council. We have the highest respect for the councils as they stand now, but there will be another election in March. There are always further elections. We have some concerns as to what they might do. Once the bank closes and people start banking somewhere else, the bank at Tieri will automatically close because it is a sub-branch of the Capella branch. We have fears about schools and businesses. If the shire is amalgamated and run from a principal point, will the trucks that are operated by our shire now buy their tyres in Capella? They are the things that really concern us. I can see that will be the demise of our town.

Senator JOYCE —So that would basically be the case really across the state where these amalgamations were going forward, wouldn’t it?

Councillor Brown —I would say so. There will be some winners and a lot of losers.

Senator JOYCE —What is the price of a house now in Capella?

Mr Lindeman —It is in the order of $280,000.

Senator JOYCE —But it would be propped up somewhat by the mining industry in that area, wouldn’t it?

Mr Lindeman —We have not experienced the same situation yet that Bauhinia shire, one of our fellow CH councils, has where they are not borrowing to the same extent because of this process. We have had issues in the past where matters such as this have made them reluctant to want to continue to provide loans.

Senator JOYCE —So people have been quite willing to buy a house in Capella and they have done it on the premise that there has been a warrant that there was a shire council there and it was a pretty safe investment.

Mr Lindeman —You have had a shire council which has facilitated development to a large extent by developing industrial and residential land, not as a commercial type venture but to facilitate that economic development. That has been successful. Some years ago you could have bought a house in Capella for $70,000, and I am only talking five or six years ago. So that, in combination with the resource boom, has seen those prices elevate.

Senator JOYCE —If it can go up from $70,000 to $80,000 it can certainly head back in the other direction if the fundamental economics of the town change.

Mr Lindeman —Absolutely. There are a lot of concerned people in the town who have bought on that $280,000 end of the market.

Senator JOYCE —So there is inherently quite a financial imperative. In fact, if someone were to make an unnecessary decision—one that was not warranted; there was no real driving or underlying reason why it came about—that brought about a loss to some families of what could be hundreds of thousands of dollars, you would say that that was an immoral decision, wouldn’t you?

Mr Lindeman —It certainly is very harsh, isn’t it?

Senator JOYCE —Thank you very much for that.

Senator FORSHAW —You obviously would be aware of the members of the Local Government Reform Commission. Do you know if there are any National Party members or any former National Party members of parliament on that commission?

Councillor Brown —One that I know of anyway.

Senator FORSHAW —Thank you.

CHAIR —I thank the Peak Downs Shire Council. We appreciate your opinions today.

 [2.38 pm]