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SJ No 31 - 10 December 1908
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115

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA.

115

No. 31.

JOURNALS -OF THE SENATE.

THURSDAY, 10th DECEMBER, 1908.

1. M eeting of Senate.—The Senate met pursuant to adjournment.

2. PRAYERS.

3. Commerce A ct : A mendment of R egulations under.—Senator Macfarlane, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Defence— (1) Have the Government decided to amend the Regulations under the Commerce Act as to marking cases of fruit for export, as promised to a deputation of Fruitgrowers should

be considered.

(2) If so, to what extent. ■

The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) replied—(1) and (2) This subject has already received the attention of the Minister for Trade and Customs, who hopes within the next few days to arrive at a decision.

4. Customs Duties on “ A pports.”— Senator Walker, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Defence— (1) W hat steps have been or are being taken to collect duties on the so-called “ apports ” alleged to have been recently materialized in Melbourne at seances held by a certain spiritualist called Bailey. (2) What is the estimated Customs valuation of the so-called “ apports,” with relative amount of

duties payable thereon. (3) W hat is the technical difference between “ apports ” and “ imports.”

The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) replied—(1), (2), and (3) The Minister for Trade and Customs does not consider the evidence at his disposal justifies any further action in this case.

5. D ry F arming—Conference in U nited States : R epresentation of Commonwealth.—Senator Givens, pursuant to notice, asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council— (1) Is it a fact that, as stated in the Argus of the 9th inst., the Government is considering the advisableness of appointing a delegate to represent the Commonwealth at a Con­

ference on dry farming, to be held in the United States. (2) Is it a fact that, as stated by the Argus, the Government propose to appoint Senator McColl as the Commonwealth representative to that Conference.

The Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator McGregor) replied—(1) and (2) A letter on the subject has been received, but has not yet been considered.

6. N avigation L aws : R eply to D espatch from Colonial Office of 3rd S eptember.—Senator Pulsford, pursuant to notice, asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council— (1) Referring to the statement made by the Vice-President, on 2nd December, in response to a question by Senator Pulsford, that a reply was being drafted to the Despatch

of the Colonial Office, dated 3rd September, relating to Navigation Laws, has the reply now been sent, and will the Government lay a copy on the Table. (2) In case the reply is not sent till after the close of the session, will the Government see that it is made public when forwarded.

The Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator McGregor) replied— (1) I t is expected that the reply will go forward by next week’s mail. ·

(2) Tnis document and any other correspondence that may pass on the subject will be made public before the consideration of the Navigation Bill is resumed hy the Senate. F. 10290.

No. 31.— 10th a nd 11 th December, 190c*. 11(5

7. P apers.—The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) laid on the Table the following Papers, viz.: — Pursuant to Statute — Bounties Act 1907.—Repeal of Regulation 16, and substitution of new Regulation in lieu thereof.—Statutory Rules 1908, No. 119.

By Command— The Defence of Australia—By Colonel H. Foster (Director of Military Studies, Sydney University); together with the Naval Director’s remarks thereon.

Ordered to be printed.

8. A ppropriation B ill 1908-9.— The Senate, according to Order, resolved itself into a Committee for the further consideration of the Appropriation Bill.

In the Committee,

Second Schedule—

T he P arliament.

Division No. 1 further considered.

Subdivision No. 1— Senator Stewart moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ The President, £1,100,” by £500. ‘

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Noes, 16.

Senator Chataway Croft de Largie Dobson

Gray Lynch Macfarlane McGregor

Millen Pearce Pulsford Russell, W.

St. Ledger Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator Mulcahy

Senator Stewart moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to leave out the item “ Clerk of Select Committees, Usher of the Black Rod, and Secretary of the Joint House Com­ mittee, £475.” Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 10.

Senator Clemons Findley Givens Guthrie

Henderson Needham Russell, E. J. Sayers

Story

Teller.

Senator Stewart

Ayes, 7.

Senator Givens Guthrie Russell, E. J. Russell, W.

Sayers Turley

Teller.

Senator Stewart

Noes, 20.

Senator Chataway Croft de Largie Dobson F raser Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J . Gould

Gray Henderson Lynch Macfarlane

McGregor Millen Needham Pearce

Pulsford St. Ledger Story Vardon Walker

Subdivision No. 1 agreed to.

Teller.

Senator Findley

117

1 1 7 No. 31.— 10ih and 11 th December, 1908.

Subdivision No. 2— Senator Clemons moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to leave out the item “ Travelling expenses, including cost of conveyance of Senators’ luggage, £100.”

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 7. Noes, 20.

Senator Clemons Dobson F indley Givens Russell, E. J.

Sayers

Teller.

Senator Stewart

Senator Chataway de Largie Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray

Guthrie Henderson Lynch Macfarlane

McGregor Millen Mulcahy Pearce Pulsford Russell, W.

St. Ledger Story Turley Vardon

Walker

Teller.

Senator Needham

At one p.m. the sitting of the Committee was suspended till a quarter past two p.m.

Senator Givens moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Incidental and petty cash expenditure, £80,” by £10.

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 8. Noes, 14.

Senator Findley Guthrie Russell, E. J. Sayers

Stewart Story Turley

Teller.

Senator Givens

Senator Chataway de Largie Dobson Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Henderson

Lynch McGregor Pearce Pulsford Russell, W. St. Ledger Walker

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to. Divisions Nos. 2-10 agreed to.

Teller.

Senator Needham

D epartment of E xternal A ffairs.

Division No. 11. Subdivision No. 1— Senator Henderson moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Secretary, £900,” by £100,

Question—put,

No. .31.— 10ih a n d 11 th December, 1908. 118

Committee divided—

Ayes, 18.

Senator Lieut.-Col. Cameron Chataway Clemons Croft

F indley Givens ‘ Gray Henderson

Macfarlane Millen Russell, E. J. Russell, W. Sayers Stewart Story Turley V ardon

Teller.

Senator Needham

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to. Division No. 12 agreed to.

Division No. 13. Subdivision No. 1 agreed to.

Noes, 9.

Senator Dobson Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Keating Lynch McGregor

Pearce Pulsford Walker

Teller.

Senator de Largie

Subdivision No. 2—■ .

Senator Clemons moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Allowance to Captain Collins while acting as Representative of Commonwealth in London, £150,’ by £1· ,

Question—put. " ·

Committee divided— .

Ayes, 10.

Senator Chataway Clemons Givens Guthrie

Millen Sayers Stewart St. Ledger

Turley

Teller.

Senator Findley

Noes, 21.

Senator Sir R. W. Best Lieut.-Col. Cameron . Croft de Largie Dobson

Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Henderson Keating

Lynch • McColl McGregor Needham

Pearce Pulsford Russell, E. J. .

Russell, W. Story Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator Macfarlane

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to. Divisions Nos. 14 and 15 agreed to.

Division No. 16— ·

Senator Findley moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to leave out the item “ Advertising resources of Commonwealth, £20,000.”

At half-past six p.m. the sitting of the Committee was suspended till a quarter to eight p.m.

Q uestion— put.

119 No. 31.— 10th and W th December, 1908.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 6. Noes, 19.

Senator Givens Guthrie Russell, E. J. Stewart

Turley

Teller.

Senator Findley

Senator Sir R. W. Best Chataway Croft de Largie

Dobson Lieut. -Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Henderson Keating

Lynch McGregor Millen Pearce

Pulsford St. Ledger Story Vardan

Walker

Teller.

Senator Needham

Senator Findley moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to leave “ Towards expenses of Press Representatives to the Congress of the Chambers £ 1,000.”

out the item of Commerce,

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 6. Noes, 21.

Senator Givens Guthrie Russell, E. J. Stewart

Tin: ley

T eller.

Senator Findley

Senator Sir R: W. Best Chataway Croft ·

de Largie Dobson Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Keating

Lynch McColl McGregor

Millen Needham Pearce Pulsford

Sayers St. Ledger Story Vardon

Walker

Teller. ■

Senator Henderson

Division 16 agreed to.

A ttorney-General’s D epartment.

Division No. 17. Subdivision No. 1—

Senator Findley moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Secretary and Parliamentary Draftsman, £900,” by £100.

Question—put.

No. 31.— 10th an d 11 th December, 1908. 120

Committee divided—

Ayes, 8.

Senator Givens Henderson Needham Sayers

Stewart Story Turley

T eller.

S en ato r F in d le y

Subdivision No. 1 agreed to. Subdivision No. 2 agreed to.

Division No. 18 agreed to.

Division No. 19.

Subdivision No. 1 agreed to. Subdivision No. 2 — Senator Stewart moved—That the House of “ Travelling Expenses, £3,250,” by £250. Question—put and negatived.

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to.

Division No. 20 agreed to.

Noes, 18,

Senator Sir R. W. Best Chataway Croft de Largie

Dobson Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Keating

McColl McGregor Millen Pearce Pulsford Russell, E. J.

St. Ledger Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator Lynch

Representatives be requested to reduce the item

D epartment of H ome A ffairs. ■

Division No. 21.

_ Subdivision No. 1

Senator Findley moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Secretary, £900,” by £100.

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 9.

Senator Findley Givens Needham Russell, E. J.

Sayers Stewart Story Turley

Teller.

Senator Henderson

Noes, 17.

Senator Chataway Croft de Largie Dobson .

Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Keating Lynch Macfarlane McColl McGregor

Mulcahy Pearce St. Ledger Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator Pulsford

Subdivision No. 1 agreed to.

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to.

Divisions Nos. 22-29 agreed to.

121

121 jVb.31.— 10th a w l l \ l h December, 1908.

Division No. 30.

Department op the Treasury.

Subdivision No. 1—

Senator Givens moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Secre­ tary, £900,” by £100.

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 8.

Senator Givens Henderson Needham Russell, E. J.

Sayers Stewart Turley

Teller.

Senator Findley

Subdivision No. 1 agreed to.

Subdivision No. 2 agreed to.

Divisions Nos. 31-33 agreed to.

Divisions Nos. 33a, 34-36 agreed to.

Noes, 21.

Senator Lieut.-Col. Cameron Chataway Croft Dobson

Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Gray Keating Lynch Macfarlane McColl

McGregor Millen Mulcahy

Pearce Pulsford Russell, W. St. Ledger

Story Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator de Largie

D epartment of T rade and Customs.

Division No. 37 read—

Senator Stewart moved—That the Chairman leave tire Chair, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Question —put and negatived.

Divisions Nos. 37 and 37a agreed to.

And the Committee having continued to sit till after twelve o’clock midnight—

FRIDAY, 11th DECEMBER, a.m.

Divisions Nos. 37b, 37c, 38-45 agreed to.

D epartment of D efence.

Division No. 46.

Subdivision No. 1—

Senator Chataway moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to leave out the item “ Secretary, £900.”

A t half-past twelve a.m. the sitting of the Committee was suspended till one a.m.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

No. 31.— 10th a nd 11 th December, 1908. 122

Senator Givens moved—That the House of Representatives be requested to reduce the item “ Secre­ tary, £900,” by £1.

Question—put.

Committee divided—

Ayes, 8.

Senator Chataway Findley Henderson Sayers

Stewart St. Ledger Turley

Teller.

Senator Givens

Noes, 16.

Senator Lieut.-Col. Cameron Croft .

de Largie Dobson Lieut.-Col. Sir A. J. Gould Keating Lynch ·

McGregor Millen Mulcahy Pearce Russell, W.

Story Vardon Walker

Teller.

Senator Needham

Divisions Nos. 46, 46a, 47, 48, 48a, 49-51, 51a, 52-98, 98a, 99-117, 117a, 118-136, 136a, 137-153, 153a, 153b, 154-171, 171a, 172-188 agreed to.

P ostmaster-General’s D epartment.

Divisions 189-195 agreed to.

Postponed Clauses 2 and 3 agreed to, subject to request in Division No. 11.

First Schedule agreed to, subject to request in Division No. 11.

Title agreed to.

Bill to be reported with requests.

The President resumed the C hair; and Senator McColl, from the Committee, reported accordingly.

The Minister for Defence {Senator Pearce) moved—That the Report from the Committee of the Whole on the Appropriation Bill 1908-9 be adopted, and that the Committee have leave to sit again on receipt of a Message from the House of Representatives in reference to such Bill.

Question—put and passed.

9. P apers.—The Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator McGregor) laid on the Table the following Papers, viz. :—

By Command—

Transferred Properties in each State : Copies of Original Schedules of Valuations, signed by the Official Representatives of the Commonwealth and States.

Pursuant to Statute—

Public Service Act 1902.—Fourth Report on the Commonwealth Public Service, by the Public Service Commissioner,

Ordered to be printed.

The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) laid on the Table the following Paper, viz.:—

Pursuant to Statute—

Audit Acts 1901-1906.—Transfers in connexion with the Financial Year 1907-8.— Approved 8th December, 1908.

10. P rinting! Committee : F ourth R eport.—Senator Henderson, Chairman, brought up the Fourth Report from the Printing Committee. The Report was read by the Clerk, and is as follows

REPORT.

The Printing Committee have the honour to report that they have met in Conference with the Printing Committee of the House of Representatives.

123 No. 31.— 10th and 11 th December, 1908.

The Joint Committee, having considered the undermentioned Petition and Papers presented to Parliament, make the following recommendations with respect to such Papers as were not ordered by either House to be printed :—

Subject of Paper. Recommendation of Committee. Remarks.

P e titio n — D efence B ill— F rom S. M athew s, M elbourne N o recom m enda-

C h ristad elp h ian Ecclesia, p ra y in g t h a t people tio n

know n as C h rista d e lp h ia n s m ay b e ex em p t from com pulsory m ilita ry tr a in in g an d service P a p e rs— L an d s A cq u isitio n A c t—

N o tificatio n s of acquisition of L a n d a t — (1) F lin d e rs ... ... ... N o recom m enda- P u b lish ed in Gazette

(2) B ru n sw ick ... ... ...

tio n

P a rtic u la rs of la n d disposed of a t — B a rn a w a rth a and C argo ... ...

P u b lic Service A c t— R e g u la tio n s— A m en d m en ts, ,, A lre a d y in p r in t and

. etc.— S ta tu to r y R u les 1908, N o. 116 circu lated to M em bers

C ustom s A c t— R e g u la tio n — A m e n d m e n t— S ta tu - ,, „ ,,

to ry R ules 1908, N o. 115

D efence A c ts— R eg u latio n s— A m en d m en ts, &c.— S ta tu to ry R u les 1908, N os. 113, 114, 118, 121,

122, a n d 133 P o st an d Telegraph A c t— R eg u latio n s, A m end-m erits, Ac.— S ta tu to r y R u le s 1908, N os. 107

an d 1 11 A u d it A c ts — R e g u la tio n — S ta tu to r y R u les 1908, »

N o. 120.

P a p u a — O rdinances of 1908— N os. 8, 9, a n d 10 ... To be p rin te d

In d e n te d L a b o u re rs— R e tu r n ... ... N o recom m enda-

M o to r C ars— R e tu rn show ing n u m b e r im ported tio n

an d d u ty paid P rem ises leased by G o v ern m en t— R e tu r n ... To be p rin te d

S p irits— S ta tis tic s re, fo r 1907— R e tu rn ... N o recom m enda-

P o stm a ste r-G e n e ra l’s D e p a rtm e n t—S ta te m e n ts for tio n To be p rin te d

th e several S ta te s show ing business tra n sa c te d , receip ts a n d ex p e n d itu re , 1906 A c c id e n ts to m a c h in ery of steam ers— R e tu r n . ..

J o i n t L ib ra ry C o m m ittee— R e p o rt ... ... N o recom m enda-

Coinage (Commonwealth) and use of Perth Mint— tion

Return Customs 1 lepartment— Return of Officials em- To be printed ployed and Salaries paid High Court—Interpretation of Constitution— :

Return of Cases decided, Costs, Ac. Immigration—Statements re expenditure ... Defence Forces—Men under Arms, Cost of Admin- 1 ,, istration, Ac., 1900— 1 and 1907-8—Return Military Offences—Return showing number and

nature of, 1901-1907 Transferred Properties—Statement of particulars ”

Committee Room, G eo. H rnderson,

10th December, 1908. Chairman.

Senator Henderson, by leave, moved—That the Report be adopted. Debate ensued. Question—put and passed.

11. A djournm ent.— The Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator McGregor) moved—That the Senate do now adjourn. Debate ensued. Question—put and passed.

The Senate adjourned at twenty-five minutes past four a.m., till half-past ten a.m. this day.

12. A ttendance.— Present, all the Members except Senators Col. Neild and Sir J. H. Symon.

C. ti. BOYDELL, ■ Clerk of the Senate.

Printed and Published for the Government o f the Commonwealth o f Australia bv J. K emp, Government P rin te r fcr the State of Victoria. B F. 10290.