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Tuesday, 19 December 1911

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator Givens - Order ! The honorable senator must not pursue that line of argument. We are now discussing item 419. The honorable senator will be. in order in making a casual reference to that matter, but he will not be in order in referring to it at length.

Senator GARDINER - I ask you, sir, whether , I shall be in order in using the absurd argument which you used-

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Order ! The honorable senator is not entitled to take advantage. of my temporary presence in the chair by pursuing that line of argument.

Senator GARDINER - I bow to your ruling, sir, but there is a way of getting over it. I recognise that I would be forgetting my position if I took advantage of your presence in the chair to refer to the arguments which you used in favour of imposing a duty upon split hides. ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable senator is only entitled to refer to that matter incidentally.

Senator GARDINER - When I desired the duty under the old Tariff to be retained, so as to protect a small industry which is not in a position to purchase the requisite machinery for splitting hides, an honorable senator who occupies a seat in the Ministerial corner of the chamber rose and in his usual boisterous manner-

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Order ! The honorable senator is not entitled to evade my ruling.

Senator GARDINER - - When I was endeavouring to protect a certain industry, an honorable senator used the absurd argument

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Order ! The honorable senator is not entitled to pursue that line of argument. The item to which he refers was dealt with long ago.

Senator GARDINER - Then I will put the position in this way : If it is reasonable to say to a few men who are engaged in an industry, " We will impose such a high duty upon the article which you manufacture that you will be forced either tQ go out of the industry or to purchase fresh machinery," it is equally reasonable to impose such a duty on the class of printing which is mentioned in sub-item 419A as will compel those who are interested in it either to purchase the requisite machinery or to retire from business. I recognise that the honorable senator to whom I have referred is very tender when reference is made to. this matter. But I thought that the fighting Protectionist would be lost in the Chairman.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.If the honorable senator proceeds, tq cast reflections on the Chair, I will very soon put him in- his proper- place.

Senator GARDINER - I would ask you, sir, in your calmer moments, whether you are justified in telling me that you- will put me in my proper place? Wherever the rules of the: Senate protect, me, I shall be in my proper- place in defending my. rights. I care not" whether you are the Chairman,, the President, or the Governor-General. I defy you by an illegal act to remove me from the position which I occupy at the present time.

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