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Wednesday, 26 October 1910

The CHAIRMAN - Order !

Senator GARDINER - Honorable senators will not only know it - they will understand it.

Senator Needham - I rise to a point of order.

Senator Millen - Is Senator Needham coming to the rescue of his big brother?

Senator Needham - Senator Millen has said that he knows the vindictive character of Senator Gardiner: I do not think that is a statement which should be made in this Chamber. I think it is out of order, and that the honorable senator should be called upon to withdraw it.

The CHAIRMAN - Senator Millen was making interjections on which I called him to order. I ask Senator Gardiner to continue his speech.

Senator GARDINER - Am I to understand, then that I shall be in order in applying similar terms to Senator Millen? If that kind of language is permitted on the other side, we shall make use of it on this side.

The CHAIRMAN - Does the honorable senator take exception to the words used by Senator Millen?

Senator GARDINER - I do, very strongly.

The CHAIRMAN - Then I ask Senator Millen to withdraw them.

Senator Millen - As the honorable senator takes exception to my use of certain words, which I-propose to withdraw, I may be allowed to say what those words were. I said that I was aware of the honorable senator's vindictive character. I withdraw the words, in deference to your request, but I think Senator Gardiner should be asked to withdraw the statement with which he followed them, when he said that we should not only know of his vindictive character, but should feel it, before six sears were up. I take that to be an admission from the honorable senator, but I think he should be asked to withdraw what he said.

The CHAIRMAN - Senator Gardinerdid not use any words in reply to Senator Millen's interjection, which, in my opinion, tall for a withdrawal.

Senator GARDINER - I am quite prepared, without being called upon to do so, lc withdraw anything I have said, which may cause my honorable friend any uneasiness.

Senator Millen - The honorable senator's statement did not cause me any pain at all.

Senator GARDINER - I desire to refer to the sympathy expressed by the Opposition for the big land-owners. I take it that it is the big land-owners who are going 10 be taxed. There are not a great many persons who now hold land which they originally purchased from the Crown, and, in a great majority of cases the amendment would apply to persons in the possession of land that has changed hands several times. I shall vote against the amendment, because the land-owners, for the amount originally paid to the Crown for their land, have had the use of that land.

Senator Millen - And the Crown has had the use of their money.

Senator GARDINER - It is a fair exchange. They have had the use of the land for the money they paid for it, andin most cases, they have had as well the vast additional value added to the land by the community. Our honorable friends opposite lose sight of the fact that the profits which those who purchased their land from the Crown have pocketed from the additional value added to the land by the community will not be taxed under this Bill. It proposes only to tax community-created values in the future. The profits from this year's values will go into the pockets of the land-owners, but after this year, they will be asked to pay a tax of1d. in the £1 on values over £5,000, and because they will be called on next year to pay a tax of 1d. in the £1 on the value of the land which they have in excess of £5,000 honorable senators opposite are devising every means in their power to defeat that proposal.

Senator Vardon - Is that all that landowners will have to pay -1d. in the £1 ?

Senator GARDINER - I did not think it necessary to add that on an estate worth £10,000 the tax would be 2d. in the £1, and so on. I believe that the sympathies of honorable senators opposite are with those who own more than £75,000 worth of land, and will have to pay at the rate of 6d. in the £1. It is about time that justice was done to the thousands of landless persons who have not only created the rich estates, and carried on the industries of the country, but have been compelled under the present form of taxation to provide for the upkeep of the Government. I intend to vote against the amendment for the simple reason that in the use of their lands the original buyers have had full value for the money which they have paid to the Crown.

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