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Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee
16/10/2012
Estimates
ATTORNEY-GENERAL PORTFOLIO

ATTORNEY-GENERAL PORTFOLIO

In Attendance

Senator Ludwig, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Minister assisting the Attorney-General on Queensland Floods Recovery

Attorney-General's Department

Mr Roger Wilkins AO, Secretary

Ms Jane Bailey, Acting Deputy Secretary, Strategic Policy and Coordination Group

Mr Tony Sheehan, Deputy Secretary, National Security and Criminal Justice Group

Mr David Fredericks, Deputy Secretary, Civil Justice and Legal Services Group

Outcome 1— A just and secure society through the maintenance and i mprovement of Australia's law and justice framework and its national security and emergency management system

1.1— Attorney-General's Department Operating Expenses - Civil Justice and Legal Services

Access to Justice Division

Ms Louise Glanville, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Susan Cochrane, Acting Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch

Dr Albin Smrdel, Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Branch

Dr Karl Alderson, Justice Policy and Administrative Law Branch

Mr Peter Arnaudo, Assistant Secretary, Marriage and Intercountry Adoption

Civil Law Division

Mr Matt Minogue, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Peta Langeveld, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office of Legal Services Coordination Branch

Mr Sam Ahlin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Business and Information Law Branch

Ms Isabella Cosenza, Acting Assistant Secretary, Classification Branch

International Law and Human Rights Division

Mr Greg Manning, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Bill Campbell QC, General Counsel (International Law)

Mr Matt Hall, Assistant Secretary, Human Rights Policy Branch

Ms Helen Daniels, Assistant Secretary, International Human Rights and Anti-Discrimination Branch

Mr John Reid, Assistant Secretary, International Law, Trade and Security Branch

Social Inclusion Division

Mr Kym Duggan, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Marjorie Todd, Assistant Secretary, Legal Assistance Branch

Ms Kathleen Denley, Assistant Secretary, Native Title Unit

Ms Tiffany Karlsson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Projects; Native Title Unit

Mr Andrew Walter, Assistant Secretary, Indigenous Justice and Community Safety Branch

1.2— Attorney-General's Department Operating Expenses - National Security and Criminal Justice

Criminal Justice Division

Mr Iain Anderson, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Sarah Chidgey, Assistant Secretary, Criminal Law and Law Enforcement Branch

Mr Ian Brown, Acting Assistant Secretary, Border Management and Crime Prevention Branch

National Security Capability Development Division

Mr Warwick Finn, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Jim Anderson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Capability Development Branch

Ms Catherine Jones, Acting Assistant Secretary - Capability Governance and Assurance Branch

Ms Raelene Thompson, Assistant Secretary - Training, Education and Development Branch

Emergency Management Australia

Ms Janette Dines, Acting Director General EMA

Ms Kerryn Vine-Camp, Assistant Secretary Crisis Coordination Branch

Dr John Boersig, Assistant Secretary Security Coordination Branch

Ms Yolonde Werner, Acting Assistant Secretary National Disaster Recovery Programs Branch

Mr Luke Brown, Acting Assistant Secretary National Disaster Recovery Programs Branch

International Crime Cooperation Division

Ms Katherine Jones, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Anna Harmer, Assistant Secretary, International Crime Cooperation Central Authority

Ms Alex Taylor, Assistant Secretary, International Crime - Policy and Engagement Branch

Ms Catherine Hawkins, Assistant Secretary, International Legal Assistance Branch

Ms Kelly Williams, Assistant Secretary, International Legal Assistance Branch

National Security Resilience Policy Division

Mr Mike Rothery, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Andrew Rice, Assistant Secretary, Cyber and Identity Security Policy Branch

Mr Michael Jerks, Assistant Secretary, Critical Infrastructure and Protective Security Policy Branch

Mr Aaron Verlin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Emergency Management Policy Branch

Ms Diane Podlich, Director, Emergency Management Communications, Emergency Management Policy Branch

National Security Law and Policy Division

Mr Geoff McDonald PSM, First Assistant Secretary

Mrs Annette Willing, Assistant Secretary, Security Law Branch

Ms Jamie Lowe, Assistant Secretary, National Security Policy and Programs Branch

Dr Asha Rajah-Clarke, Acting Assistant Secretary, AusCheck Branch

Mrs Catherine Smith, Assistant Secretary, Telecommunications and Surveillance Law Branch

1.3— Justice Services

Access to Justice Division

Ms Louise Glanville, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Susan Cochrane, Acting Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch

Dr Albin Smrdel, Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Branch

Dr Karl Alderson, Justice Policy and Administrative Law Branch

Mr Peter Arnaudo, Assistant Secretary, Marriage and Intercountry Adoption

Social Inclusion Division

Mr Kym Duggan, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Marjorie Todd, Assistant Secretary, Legal Assistance Branch

Ms Kathleen Denley, Assistant Secretary, Native Title Unit

Ms Tiffany Karlsson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Projects; Native Title Unit

Mr Andrew Walter, Assistant Secretary, Indigenous Justice and Community Safety Branch

Civil Law Division

Mr Matt Minogue, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Peta Langeveld, Acting Assistant Secretary, Office of Legal Services Coordination Branch

Mr Sam Ahlin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Business and Information Law Branch

Ms Isabella Cosenza, Acting Assistant Secretary, Classification Branch

International Law and Human Rights Division

Mr Greg Manning, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Bill Campbell QC, General Counsel (International Law)

Mr Matt Hall, Assistant Secretary, Human Rights Policy Branch

Ms Helen Daniels, Assistant Secretary, International Human Rights and Anti-Discrimination Branch

Mr John Reid, Assistant Secretary, International Law, Trade and Security Branch

1.4— Family Relationship Services

Access to Justice Division

Ms Louise Glanville, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Susan Cochrane, Acting Assistant Secretary, Family Law Branch

Dr Albin Smrdel, Assistant Secretary, Federal Courts Branch

Dr Karl Alderson, Justice Policy and Administrative Law Branch

Mr Peter Arnaudo, Assistant Secretary, Marriage and Intercountry Adoption

1.5— Indigenous Law and Justice

Social Inclusion Division

Mr Kym Duggan, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Marjorie Todd, Assistant Secretary, Legal Assistance Branch

Ms Kathleen Denley, Assistant Secretary, Native Title Unit

Ms Tiffany Karlsson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Special Projects; Native Title Unit

Mr Andrew Walter, Assistant Secretary, Indigenous Justice and Community Safety Branch

1.6— National Security and Criminal Justice

Criminal Justice Division

Mr Iain Anderson, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Sarah Chidgey, Assistant Secretary, Criminal Law and Law Enforcement Branch

Mr Ian Brown, Acting Assistant Secretary, Border Management and Crime Prevention Branch

National Security Capability Development Division

Mr Warwick Finn, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Jim Anderson, Acting Assistant Secretary, Capability Development Branch

Ms Catherine Jones, Acting Assistant Secretary - Capability Governance and Assurance Branch

Ms Raelene Thompson, Assistant Secretary - Training, Education and Development Branch

Emergency Management Australia

Ms Janette Dines, Acting Director General EMA

Ms Kerryn Vine-Camp, Assistant Secretary Crisis Coordination Branch

Dr John Boersig, Assistant Secretary Security Coordination Branch

Ms Yolonde Werner, Acting Assistant Secretary National Disaster Recovery Programs Branch

Mr Luke Brown, Acting Assistant Secretary National Disaster Recovery Programs Branch

International Crime Cooperation Division

Ms Katherine Jones, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Anna Harmer, Assistant Secretary, International Crime Cooperation Central Authority

Ms Alex Taylor, Assistant Secretary, International Crime - Policy and Engagement Branch

Ms Catherine Hawkins, Assistant Secretary, International Legal Assistance Branch

Ms Kelly Williams, Assistant Secretary, International Legal Assistance Branch

National Security Resilience Policy Division

Mr Mike Rothery, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Andrew Rice, Assistant Secretary, Cyber and Identity Security Policy Branch

Mr Michael Jerks, Assistant Secretary, Critical Infrastructure and Protective Security Policy Branch

Mr Aaron Verlin, Acting Assistant Secretary, Emergency Management Policy Branch

Ms Diane Podlich, Director, Emergency Management Communications, Emergency Management Policy Branch

National Security Law and Policy Division

Mr Geoff McDonald PSM, First Assistant Secretary

Mrs Annette Willing, Assistant Secretary, Security Law Branch

Ms Jamie Lowe, Assistant Secretary, National Security Policy and Programs Branch

Dr Asha Rajah-Clarke, Acting Assistant Secretary, AusCheck Branch

Mrs Catherine Smith, Assistant Secretary, Telecommunications and Surveillance Law Branch

Strategic Policy and Coordination Group

Corporate Division

Mr Stephen Lutze, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Trevor Kennedy, Assistant Secretary, Financial Management and Property Branch

Ms Rachael Jackson, Assistant Secretary, People and Corporate Support Branch

Mr Lawrence Hosking, Assistant Secretary, Financial Framework and Systems Branch

Strategy and Delivery Division

Ms Louise Glanville, First Assistant Secretary

Ms Doris Gibb, Assistant Secretary, Cabinet and Ministerial Coordination Branch

Ms Ayesha Perry, Assistant Secretary, Strategy and Policy Advice Branch

Office of Corporate Counsel

Ms Maggie Jackson, First Assistant Secretary

Mr Steven Marshall, Special Adviser

Office of Constitutional Law

Mr James Faulkner PSM SC, General Counsel (Constitutional)

Information Division

Ms Joann Corcoran, Acting Chief Information Officer

Mr Alex Viali, Acting Assistance Secretary

Australian Crime Commission

Mr John Lawler, ACC, Chief Executive Officer

Dr David Lacey, Executive Director, People, Business Support and Stakeholder Relations

Mrs Karen Harfield, Executive Director, Fusion, Target Development and Performance

Mr Paul Jevtovic, Executive Director, Intervention and Prevention

Australian Customs and Border Protection Service

Mr Michael Pezzullo, Acting Chief Executive Officer

Ms Marion Grant, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, Border Management

Ms Maree Bridger, Acting Chief Operating Officer/Deputy Chief Executive Officer Maritime, Corporate and Intelligence

Mr Steven Groves, Chief Financial Officer/National Director Strategy, Finance and Integrity

Rear Admiral David Johnston, Commander Border Protection Command

Mr Nigel Perry, National Director, Marine Operations Support

Mr Chris Wall, Acting National Director, Intelligence and Targeting

Mr Jeff Buckpitt, National Director, Passengers

Ms Roxanne Kelley, National Director, Compliance and Enforcement

Australian Federal Police

Mr Tony Negus, Commissioner

Mr Andrew Wood, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Peter Drennan, Deputy Commissioner, National Security

Mr Andrew Colvin, Deputy Commissioner, Crime Operations

Mr Michael Phelan, Deputy Commissioner, Close Operations Support

Mr Neil Gaughan, National Manager, High Tech Crime Operations

Mr Michael Outram, National Manager, Protection

Mr Peter Gunning, Chief Finance Officer

Ms Mandy Newton, National Manager, International Deployment Group

Australian Government Solicitor

Mr Ian Govey, Chief Executive Officer

Mr Norm Holcroft, Corporate Secretary

Australian Human Rights Commission

Professor Gillian Triggs, President

Mr Mick Gooda, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner

The Hon Susan Ryan AO, Age Discrimination Commissioner

Mr Graeme Innes AM, Disability Discrimination Commissioner

Dr Helen Szoke, Race Discrimination Commissioner

Ms Elizabeth Broderick, Sex Discrimination Commissioner

Ms Padma Raman, Executive Director

Australian Institute of Criminology

Dr Adam Tomison, Director (Chief Executive)

Mr Brian Russell, Acting Deputy Director (Corporate) and CFO

Australian Law Reform Commission

Professor Jill McKeough, Commissioner, Copyright Inquiry

Sabina Wynn, Executive Director

Australian Security Intelligence Organisation

Mr David Irvine, Director-General

Ms Kerri Hartland, Deputy Director-General

Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions

Mr Jim Jolliffe, Acting Director

Mr James Carter, Acting First Deputy Director

Ms Karel Havlat, Acting Deputy Director, Corporate Management

Mr Graeme Davidson, Deputy Director, Commercial, International, Counter Terrorism and Criminal Assets Division

CrimTrac

Mr Doug Smith, Chief Executive Officer

Mr Jeff Storer, Deputy Chief Executive Officer

Ms Vicky Green, Acting Chief Information Officer

Ms Theresa van Gessel, Chief of Staff

Ms Yvette Whittaker, Chief Financial Officer/Director Finance

Ms Nicole Mayo, Director Legal

Ms Carolyn Nixon, Director Human Resources

Family Court of Australia

Mr Richard Foster PSM, Chief Executive Officer

Mr Grahame Harriott, Executive Director Corporate

Federal Court of Australia

Mr Warwick Soden, Registrar and CEO

Mr Gordon Foster, Executive Director

Mr Peter Bowen, Chief Finance Officer

Federal Magistrates Court of Australia

Mr Richard Foster PSM, Acting Chief Executive Officer

Mr Steve Agnew, Acting Deputy Chief Executive Officer

Mr Grahame Harriott, Acting Chief Finance Officer

National Native Title Tribunal

Ms Stephanie Fryer-Smith, Registrar

Mr Frank Russo, Deputy Registrar East

Ms June Eaton, Deputy Registrar West

Office of the Australian Information Commissioner

Professor John McMillan, Australian Information Commissioner

Mr Timothy Pilgrim, Privacy Commissioner

Dr James Popple, Freedom of Information Commissioner

Ms Alison Leonard, Assistant Commissioner Operations

Committee met at 09 :02 .

CHAIR ( Senator Crossin ): I declare open this public hearing of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee. The Senate has referred to the committee the particulars—a proposed expenditure for 2012-13—and related documents for the Attorney-General's and the Immigration and Citizenship portfolios. The hearing today is supplementary to the budget estimates hearings. The committee has before it a program listing agencies and outcomes, in relation to which senators have given notice. The committee has set 7 December 2012 as the date by which answers to questions on notice are expected to be returned. Under standing order 26 the committee must take all evidence in public session. This includes answers to questions on notice. Officers and senators are familiar with the rules of the Senate governing estimates hearings, and if you need assistance then our secretariat has copies.

I particularly draw the attention of witnesses to the order of the Senate of 13 May 2009 specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised, which will now be incorporated in Hansard:

The extract read as follows—

Public interest immunity claims

That the Senate—

(a) notes that ministers and officers have continued to refuse to provide information to Senate committees without properly raising claims of public interest immunity as required by past resolutions of the Senate;

(b) reaffirms the principles of past resolutions of the Senate by this order, to provide ministers and officers with guidance as to the proper process for raising public interest immunity claims and to consolidate those past resolutions of the Senate;

(c) orders that the following operate as an order of continuing effect:

(1) If:

(a) a Senate committee, or a senator in the course of proceedings of a committee, requests information or a document from a Commonwealth department or agency; and

(b) an officer of the department or agency to whom the request is directed believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the officer shall state to the committee the ground on which the officer believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, and specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(2) If, after receiving the officer’s statement under paragraph (1), the committee or the senator requests the officer to refer the question of the disclosure of the information or document to a responsible minister, the officer shall refer that question to the minister.

(3) If a minister, on a reference by an officer under paragraph (2), concludes that it would not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the minister shall provide to the committee a statement of the ground for that conclusion, specifying the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(4) A minister, in a statement under paragraph (3), shall indicate whether the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee could result only from the publication of the information or document by the committee, or could result, equally or in part, from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee as in camera evidence.

(5) If, after considering a statement by a minister provided under paragraph (3), the committee concludes that the statement does not sufficiently justify the withholding of the information or document from the committee, the committee shall report the matter to the Senate.

(6) A decision by a committee not to report a matter to the Senate under paragraph (5) does not prevent a senator from raising the matter in the Senate in accordance with other procedures of the Senate.

(7) A statement that information or a document is not published, or is confidential, or consists of advice to, or internal deliberations of, government, in the absence of specification of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document, is not a statement that meets the requirements of paragraph (I) or (4).

(8) If a minister concludes that a statement under paragraph (3) should more appropriately be made by the head of an agency, by reason of the independence of that agency from ministerial direction or control, the minister shall inform the committee of that conclusion and the reason for that conclusion, and shall refer the matter to the head of the agency, who shall then be required to provide a statement in accordance with paragraph (3).

(Extract, Senate Standing Orders, pp 124-125)

I ask everybody in the room to ensure that their mobile phones, iPads, iPhones, iPods and i-anythings are switched off to absolute silence.

We will start with the Attorney-General's portfolio today and move through the related agencies, starting with the National Native Title Tribunal and moving through the program as circulated.

Let me also say that, if we happen to finish early in some instances, we are going to move straight onto the next outcome or agency listed.

We are a bit under the pump today for time, so we are only going to have an hour for dinner tonight, not my usual hour and a half—my apologies for that. We will rectify that in February though.

Welcome, Minister Ludwig, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, however, representing the Attorney-General, the Minister for Home Affairs and the Minister for Justice today. To you, Mr Wilkins and your officers, good morning.