Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee
25/10/2018
Estimates
FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE PORTFOLIO
Tourism Australia

Tourism Australia

[21:49]

CHAIR: Welcome, Ms Halbert and other officials. I assume there's no opening statement. We will go straight to questions.

Senator MOORE: Hello, Ms Halbert. How are you? These questions are quite familiar. We follow the same kind of topics, but we're actually running early tonight, so you haven't come on right at half past 10, which is often what happens with you. So I'm quite relieved for you. The first one is around the Dundee advertisements. Can you provide an update on the return on investment for the Dundee Super Bowl advertisement? I would imagine you have done work in that space.

Ms Halbert : We have. It's too early to talk about a return on investment given that the campaign launched in the US, or started to launch, in February of this year.

Senator MOORE: At the Super Bowl?

Ms Halbert : Yes, the Super Bowl was the first week of February. As you can no doubt imagine, it takes a long time for people to make those bookings and then arrive in Australia and then spend the money and have that recorded. But we have seen very positive initial results, particularly around leads that we've seen from our website—about 370,000 leads to partners from the Australia.com website. We've seen an 11.5 per cent increase in visa applications in the first half of the year from the US market, so that's a very positive sign. The partners that we were working with through the first phase of the campaign are reporting to us increases in sales of up to 30 per cent and increases in yield—so potential expenditure—of up to 20 per cent.

Senator MOORE: Your partners are airlines, accommodation and those kinds of things?

Ms Halbert : Correct, and also travel agent partners that we worked with in the US to put together deals and itineraries so that people could book directly through our website or through those partners.

Senator MOORE: Can you give us an idea—and you've actually started with that—of the methodology for assessment. I know this is something that you've worked on over many years and it evolves and all those things. But, with the decision to put out the expenditure—and you will tell me how much it costs—on such a big program, which we know it is, what is the methodology of assessing it? Do you check your partners to see what they're doing?

Ms Halbert : It's a staged approach. The first stage was really whether or not it was effective from a media and marketing perspective.

Senator MOORE: So feedback about that?

Ms Halbert : Feedback—things like 103 million people seeing the ad on the day and 14,478 articles being written or published about it, which delivered $85.1 million in earned advertising value. That's the amount it would have cost us to buy that amount of media. We had 218,000 mentions on social media. So there are all sorts of different measures. That's that first stage to see if the campaign has really—

Senator MOORE: That's the initial impact?

Ms Halbert : Exactly.

Senator MOORE: The football game happened. It was up there. How many people talked about that ad?

Ms Halbert : Exactly, and how did that ad rate with regard to the others? The next phase is things like visa applications and feedback from partners.

Senator MOORE: How soon do you begin to claim that for the ad? That is a point: the ad happens. It would be highly unlikely someone would travel the day after because of the ad. Is there something built into the methodology to conservatively look at the process?

Ms Halbert : That's why we look at things like leads. A lead is if someone, for example, has seen the ad. They go to our website and then they click on Mark's travel agency.

Senator MOORE: So you can trace that?

Ms Halbert : Yes. We've got cookies, as I think they're called. I'm not a technical person.

Senator MOORE: I have heard that term.

Ms Halbert : We've got them embedded into our website, and they can then track people going off. Also, when we form an arrangement with a travel agent partner, for example, we ask them to share with us their data about leads that they have seen and then bookings that they're starting to get. But, really importantly, the key metrics that we set are set to 2020. That's the slightly frustrating thing with what we do: they are long term. So, what we did was look at the expenditure that we expected from the US market in 2020 and then—

Senator MOORE: Compared it.

Ms Halbert : And then we said that we expect to get an extra $80 million out of the US market each year off the back of this campaign having been successful. So our KPIs for spend of US visitors in Australia are actually set at 2020. If I'm booking a trip to Europe I will book it six months or 12 months—

Senator MOORE: So, that's how far out it goes. I was going to say that for—

Senator GALLACHER: How do you factor in currency valuations? The Aussie dollar's probably at a beneficial rate at the moment. How do you take that out of the equation?

Ms Halbert : Look, it is, but it's a very hard thing to predict. What we have found over the years—

Senator GALLACHER: Currency's easy to predict. You can go back and measure it. When the Aussie dollar goes down, American tourism goes up. I'm just asking how you factor that into—

Ms Halbert : And we didn't factor that in when we set the KPIs because predicting the Australian dollar is very difficult. What we found with the Australian dollar is that it generally doesn't necessarily affect the number of visitors from a country but it might affect the spend while they're in the country.

Senator GALLACHER: So you're cognisant of that.

Ms Halbert : Yes. They'll probably still come, but the great news is that they might spend more because everything's a bit cheaper.

Senator MOORE: How much is the second phase of the Dundee advertisement cost to date?

Ms Halbert : The second phase has cost an additional $5.8 million.

CHAIR: Is that part of the $36 million?

Ms Halbert : No. That's additional. Because of the good feedback we had from the first phase, we've put some of our US funds and moved them into this campaign as part of phase 2, to continue—

Senator MOORE: The first phase is over, isn't it?

Ms Halbert : The first phase continues in website forms and in some of the work we're doing in the US, and the second phase—I don't know whether any of you have seen it, but it really builds on that first phase. It's the Dundee concept, slightly advanced, with a different Hemsworth, and the idea is to keep building that momentum.

Senator MOORE: Exactly—a different Hemsworth; it's a good thing they keep providing them!

Ms Halbert : I think we've run out now, sadly. Hopefully there are more!

Senator MOORE: The second phase—and this is the one that started this year—is $5.8 million to date.

Ms Halbert : Yes.

Senator MOORE: And you keep evaluating and planning around that process?

Ms Halbert : Absolutely.

Senator MOORE: And then you come here and we keep asking you. What is the distribution planned for the second phase of this ad? And do you have that cost yet?

Ms Halbert : That's included in—

Senator MOORE: That's included in that; okay. And you have a set distribution plan, which is what?

Ms Halbert : It's very similar to what it was for phase 1, although we're no longer exclusively going with one airline; we're working with all of the different airlines that fly from the US to Australia.

Senator MOORE: How many are there? Take that on notice.

Ms Halbert : We will. I mean, you've got Qantas, Virgin—

Senator MOORE: It will be built into the plan—and American Airlines—

Ms Halbert : And Delta, and Air New Zealand is a very good partner on that route. So, I'm going to say six, maybe seven.

Senator MOORE: And this is from any America-Australia route. And that would be significant numbers. Just on notice, can we get that? That would be useful.

Ms Halbert : Absolutely.

Senator MOORE: What were Luke Hemsworth's costs?

Ms Halbert : That's actually commercial-in-confidence.

Senator MOORE: That was the answer we got with the first Hemsworth. I just thought I'd try it! But that's all built into the plan; that was part of it—

Ms Halbert : Yes, and we're working with similar partners as we did last time to really drive that conversion.

Senator MOORE: At this stage, do you have a figure that you're seeking to be the outcome for the second phase? What are you aiming for?

Ms Halbert : The KPIs are similar to the 2020 KPIs. We were always assuming a second thing.

Senator MOORE: $80 million?

Ms Halbert : An extra $80 million per year then. And then obviously that sort of resets the 2020 number, which then continues to grow off that.

Senator MOORE: Okay. The Chinese visitor market: what is your feedback on how the current China strategy is going at this stage?

Ms Halbert : We're continuing to see very strong growth from China. Spending reached almost $11 billion in the year to March. They are obviously our biggest spending market and in the last 12 months they've become our biggest market in terms of number of visitors as well. They've overtaken New Zealand. I think that happened at the beginning of the year—February—and that's up 13 per cent year on year. Now, is that a slightly lower growth figure than we saw five years ago? Yes, but that's because the base that we're growing off is so much higher. So, we are continuing to see very strong growth and it's a market that we're extremely active in.

Senator MOORE: What are the set targets that determine the success? Are they being met? You've already mentioned flat numbers. There's also spend when they're here. What are the other targets that determine success?

Ms Halbert : The general target that we've set is really a spend target for all of our markets to 2020.

Senator MOORE: That's total spend?

Ms Halbert : Total spend.

Senator MOORE: What does that include? Are there subcategories of that, or do you just lump together?

Ms Halbert : It is a lumped-together number. Again, the Austrade gentlemen may correct me because my specific knowledge of the International Visitor Survey is probably nowhere near theirs. But it does include flights from China to Australia and of course expenditure in Australia. That can include shopping, for example, meals, transport, accommodation—all of those things.

Senator MOORE: How do you trace that? I'm sorry to be asking these basic questions; it's just been a while since I've done tourism.

Mr Donelly : That's all right. We're responsible for Tourism Research Australia, which does the International Visitor Survey each year. We have a contractor which surveys 40,000 international visitors as they leave the country. It asks quite a comprehensive survey about where they've been and what they've done and a little bit about what they liked and what they didn't like.

Senator MOORE: As a representative sample?

Mr Donelly : Exactly, as a representative sample—and then it uses the ABS and Home Affairs figures to gross that up to the full population of international visitors.

Senator MOORE: So it could never be absolutely accurate, but it's indicative?

Mr Donelly : Exactly.

Senator MOORE: And that's where you get the indication that Chinese tourists are spending more than other tourists at this moment. What is the cost per visitor to attract new visitors from China, and how does this compare to other markets advertising in order to attract visitors to Australia?

CHAIR: Are you able to do that?

Ms Halbert : No.

CHAIR: One assumes that various states and other bodies are also engaged in seeking to attract tourists.

Ms Halbert : Yes.

Senator MOORE: Is that the type of data you keep—the cost to attract?

Ms Halbert : It isn't. We can certainly take it on notice and see what we might have.

Senator MOORE: That would be useful.

Ms Halbert : As a general rule, we will spend a certain amount in a market, but, as the senator rightly pointed out, other states and territories also operate in that market, which tends to confuse things a little bit. But I'm very happy to take it on notice and see what we can provide for you.

Senator MOORE: That would be great. Are there any new trends you've observed in relation to the Chinese market? You've been doing this study for a while. It's been a key market, and you've been working in it for a space. Is anything new coming out?

Ms Halbert : Yes. They are absolutely moving far more from group travel to free and independent travel.

Senator MOORE: That's a significant change in the market, isn't it?

Ms Halbert : It's a significant change, and it's great news because they stay longer and spend more, and they are more inclined to disperse.

Senator MOORE: They are more free.

Ms Halbert : Yes. Interestingly, there's a big interest at the moment in self-drive travel, and also they're starting to be interested in things like glamping and really organising their own itineraries.

Senator MOORE: Is that the kind of thing that is a part of the surveys at the airport—that kind of detail?

Mr Donelly : Not necessarily what types of trips they took, but certainly where they went, what they spent and what sort of accommodation they stayed in are part of the surveys, yes.

Senator MOORE: How have the TA advertising campaigns influenced their length of visit, expenditure and dispersal? Have you been able to link that together?

Ms Halbert : In that we only advertise for free and independent travellers, and we are seeing significant growth and that is driving dispersal, and we are starting to be able to communicate more around activities outside the really major metropolitan areas.

Senator MOORE: Which would be the self-drive stuff?

Ms Halbert : Yes. China, because it's a less mature market, is still very focused on the east coast, but the work that happens also in partnership with states and territories to attract new direct services is helping get people to different states and territories, and we work very hard on that to make sure that we are offering a Chinese consumer a really wide variety of opportunities.

Senator MOORE: We talked before about opportunities for regional areas, so packaging—about going not just to the Great Barrier Reef but inland as well; that kind of thing.

Senator GALLACHER: Far from a regional area, how's the Chinese airline—I think it's China Southern—flying into Adelaide?

Ms Halbert : It's going really well.

Senator GALLACHER: Is that demonstrating an influx of Chinese tourists? Is it measurable?

Ms Halbert : Yes. They've increased their services from, I think, three a week to five a week, and they're going to seven a week. I think it's a really successful example of a new service to Australia, because they also worked very hard to make sure that they filled the belly of the plane with produce from South Australia and surrounding regions. I think they truck produce in from Victoria as well to make sure that—

Senator GALLACHER: I'd just like to use your best endeavours to get Qantas to fly internationally out of Adelaide, because they are the only ones who don't.

Ms Halbert : Yes, I think that's been duly noted!

CHAIR: And why do they fly to Adelaide and not to Hobart?

Ms Halbert : Excuse me, Senator. I'm from Adelaide. It's a delightful city.

CHAIR: Oops, wrong person to ask! I withdraw it.

Senator MOORE: Have you identified any future opportunities for growth? Is that part of the plan? Is there anything you can share with us, or is it still embryonic?

Ms Halbert : Every year we look at all of the important markets and we've done some modelling out to 2030, which is very early days. That modelling isn't public yet, but probably no one in the room will be surprised to hear that China will continue to have very significant growth. The other two markets with really strong growth, in that period, are India and Indonesia. There's a lot of work happening. We recently launched a new campaign called 'UnDiscover Australia' for South-East Asian markets—India, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia—to talk to them about different experiences that they might not be aware of. That was really just focused on those four markets to tell them about, for example, the Bridestowe Lavender farm, the Grampians—

CHAIR: Now you're talking.

Ms Halbert : and swimming with the whale sharks in WA—all sorts of different experiences that they might not be as aware of—to try to encourage them to come and have different experiences.

Senator MOORE: Has there been any comparison done between the markets where we're advertising to get people from those countries to come here and what they're doing at the same time to get Australian tourists to go there? Each of those countries you have just listed off have had their own campaigns in Australia over the last two years. So I'm fascinated to see whether there's been any comparative work done in that space.

Ms Halbert : We keep an eye on what all of our major competitors are doing. To a great extent, if you have a direct service, for example, coming from India, it is as important that you have Indians travelling to Australia as it is that you have Australians travelling to India, because that makes the service viable. You will often find, where there are new services, there's advertising at both ends to drive the strength of that service. We don't talk directly with the other governments about what they are doing in the advertising space, but we certainly keep an eye on who is doing what to make sure we are across our competition.

Senator GALLACHER: Is there a model about the diaspora in Australia? Indians are a classic example. They all go home and that creates an opportunity for inward bound tourism. Do you monitor that?

Ms Halbert : Again, we get information through Home Affairs and also the ABS around visiting friends and relatives. That's a really important market for us because when you've got anyone from a foreign country living here but also, particularly, students, for example, there is an opportunity for their families to come and visit them. Often they might stay with them, for example, but they might do a reasonable amount of travelling around Australia while they're here. We are actually looking, at the moment, at how we might be able to target them better. There's some interesting work being done in the international education area, partnering with state tourism boards to look at how they can do that.

Senator MOORE: One of the other things is that at every major multicultural event you attend—it doesn't matter which diaspora community it is—the major fundraising prize is a return trip to the home country. It's just—as Senator Fierravanti-Wells will understand—it's just extraordinary. The amount of advertising from different airlines and those places at any of those functions in 10 years it has changed amazingly.

The Australian Accommodation Monitor, it has now been outsourced and is coordinated by STR Global. According to the STR Global website, the Australian Accommodation Monitor, for the 2017-18 financial year, is due to be released in October 2018. Can anyone tell me when it's due? Do you look after that as well?

Mr Donelly : I do.

Senator MOORE: When is it due?

Mr Donelly : It is due to come out next week. The precise date hasn't yet been set.

Senator MOORE: But it will be out next week?

Mr Donelly : Yes.

Senator MOORE: Right. When was it privatised to STR Global? I remember asking questions about it.

Mr Donelly : STR Global took over the contract about 12 months ago. The first release done under STR Global was from 2016-17. The ABS did it before that. The ABS issued it for 2015-16.

Senator MOORE: So last year was the first one—

Mr Donelly : It was what the then Survey of Tourist Accommodation. It had a different name but covered the same material.

Senator MOORE: It's going to be in the same format?

Mr Donelly : It's a slightly different format and slightly different material in the STR Global version, so the Australian Accommodation Monitor, but broadly it covers the number of rooms available and the revenue achieved from those rooms.

Senator MOORE: After we get it, there could be some more questions, but at least we know it's coming next week. The International Visitor Survey, which is you again—publication for the June quarter has been pushed back. The web site states, and which you probably know very well:

TRA wishes to advise that International Visitor Survey results for the June Quarter 2018 will be delayed. TRA are investigating additional concerns with the passenger data used for benchmarking of the survey results.

In fact, as I read that out I thought that—'We wish to advise'—is one of those messages we get on the airplanes all the time. Why is there a delay for the June quarter, what's happened and when will the data be available?

Mr Donelly : I explained before a little bit of the process around how the survey works, in response to your previous question. We will do a survey of visitors coming through the airport. We then use what they call the overseas and arrivals data from ABS, which is originally sourced from data from the Department of Home Affairs. We use that data to gross up to the population of the actual number of visitors who are in the country. In September of this year, we identified some issues with that data relating to the country-of-origin.

Senator MOORE: This is the Home Affairs data?

Mr Donelly : This is Home Affairs data, yes, which is provided through the ABS. We sought to investigate those and correct them. We've now corrected that data and we expect to release the IVS next week.

Senator MOORE: Was the data error longstanding? Is it something that could have affected previous reports, or is it something that happened just in the last 12 months?

Mr Donelly : This particular error only occurred quite recently. It was the result of some visa-processing changes the department of immigration did that didn't flow through to the way that the arrivals data was collected.

Senator MOORE: So it was looking at the consequence of a change?

Mr Donelly : Yes.

Senator MOORE: Now that will be looked at when the changes happen. What will the consequential impact be down the track?

Mr Donelly : As a result of this problem and a previous one, we've set up a new technical subcommittee which works between TRA, the ABS and the Department of Home Affairs.

Senator MOORE: They are the only players? If you have those players on board, they'll be across everything?

Mr Donelly : We've also got representation from the Home Affairs contractor who looks after the contract to administer the passenger movement cards. So those four parties will be meeting on a regular basis and exploring any changes that are made—

Senator MOORE: Just checking things.

Mr Donelly : just to double-check that any changes that are made to the processing system don't flow through to the statistics in an adverse way.

Senator MOORE: It's always the consequences down the track of making a change. So everybody who needs to be in the game is now in the game?

Mr Donelly : That's correct.

Senator MOORE: And that should make up for any data errors.

Mr Donelly : We certainly hope so.

Senator MOORE: The same thing should be out next week? It's a big week.

Mr Donelly : It is a big week, Senator.

Senator MOORE: Regional dispersal: we've got some questions there for Austrade on—

CHAIR: Or for on notice.

Senator MOORE: Yes, I'm just perusing—and questions to Tourism Australia. In your view, what needs to be done in order to grow regional dispersal and what are the impediments? I know!

Ms Halbert : It's a very big question. I think part of—

Senator MOORE: Is this a question that would be better on notice for you? If it's valuable and there's stuff we can share now we have the time, but I'm wondering whether a question as wide as that is something that would be better for you on notice.

Ms Halbert : Probably, yes. A lot of work is being done to try and introduce a new product.

Senator MOORE: That's a general question. It comes out of the $45 million that was set aside.

Ms Halbert : I'm very happy to respond on notice to that—

Senator MOORE: Analysis type question.

Ms Halbert : and we can get into a bit more detail for you.

Senator MOORE: We'll put that on notice. How much of Tourism Australia's funding is directly attributed to encouraging regional dispersal? Meaning, and this is the jargon, once the visitor has been 'snagged'—is that a technical term, 'once the visitor's been snagged'?

Ms Halbert : Not one we use often, but maybe.

Senator MOORE: What investment from the budget is directly attributed to this?

Ms Halbert : Again, we'd have to take that on notice.

Senator MOORE: Absolutely—that's fine.

Ms Halbert : Just to explain very top line, in all of the campaigns that we run—I'm thinking Dundee, the UnDiscover campaign I outlined, back to Aquatic and Coastal, and Restaurant Australia—the vast majority of product that we put in front of the consumer is in regional Australia.

Senator MOORE: That's interesting.

Ms Halbert : Absolutely. I'm just thinking about the Dundee 2 campaign. We had Nitmiluk in the Northern Territory a well as—

Senator MOORE: Stunning vision.

CHAIR: Not half as stunning as Tasmania!

Ms Halbert : We had the lavender farms, for example; we had oyster shucking in Coles Bay. There is a wide variety of products that we put out. There is a bit of Vivid, but very little capital city. There is some. We do try to balance as much as possible, firstly all the states and territories, and secondly to really cover regional areas. The challenges, which we'll get into, are many. They are distance, time, the complexity of putting together itineraries, probably cost to an extent. They're probably also tourism product. We'll get into that, but in terms of the amount of money that is spent promoting regional Australia, it is quite significant. But it's a complex problem to solve.

Senator MOORE: My last question is about how Tourism Australia is executing the regional dispersal program. We will put those on notice and give you a chance to sell the process.

Ms Halbert : Great.

Senator MOORE: On the backpacker tax and global youth marketing campaign—I've asked questions about this before—and the 2016 Tourism Australia launch of the $10 million three-year marketing campaign: what is the value of backpackers to the visitor economy? I'm sure there is a line that's quantified that.

Ms Halbert : Let me find the exact numbers. Youth aged 18 to 30 contribute 45 per cent of all spend, 25 per cent of all visitors. Working holiday-makers spent $3.2 billion in the year to March 2018. Youth spent $19 billion. You can see that WHMs are just are a component of the total.

Senator MOORE: They are a subset. We went through that at a previous estimates.

CHAIR: They like to spend it. Is it their parents' money?

Ms Halbert : As long as they admit to spending it, we are very happy!

Senator MOORE: That comes from your survey, as the basic indicator of that.

Mr Donelly : Yes.

Senator MOORE: Do you have a current advertising campaign to attract backpackers to Australia.

Ms Halbert : There's nothing currently in market. We have our final phase of that campaign, which is going into market in Germany and UK predominantly early next year. Importantly, I think you will recall Mr O'Sullivan spoke about some research we have conducted in those markets last year. What we've done is modify the campaign that we had there to reflect the feedback from those markets, which was that they didn't really understand how to go about a working holiday. They found it quite complex and needed more information. So the work that we do early next year will be much more around what jobs are available and how they can go about having a working holiday.

Senator MOORE: I will put on notice questions about how this is being measured and what targets have been set. Beyond Tourism 2020: on 9 February this year the government announced the establishment of a Beyond Tourism 2020 Steering Committee to work on the next stage of Australia's tourism strategy. What progress has it made since it was established in February?

Mr Boyer : We are working very closely with Tourism Australia to help provide support for the Beyond Tourism 2020 committee, which was originally established by Minister Ciobo. Since February, when the committee met for the first time on 9 February, there have been a large number of meetings of the group. The committee has focused on a broad range of topics, including targeted demand activity, investing in consumer data, addressing capacity constraints, using technology to enhance visitor experience, suitably skilled and available workforce, and how to build a sustainable tourism industry. In April 2018 the steering committee invited submissions from a range of tourism industry representatives and state and territory governments. A total of 29 were received. A draft strategy will be prepared and provided to Minister Birmingham in due course for his consideration.

Senator MOORE: You said it has met on a number of occasions. Do you have in front of you how many times they have met as a KPI? Or we can put it on notice. You seem to have a detailed brief there. I thought you might have.

Mr Boyer : I do, but I don't have that particular information. I'll take that on notice.

Senator MOORE: A media release from the minister at the time of the announcement of the committee indicated that this group would present its findings in 2018. Is this on track?

Mr Boyer : Yes.

Senator MOORE: Is it any clearer, in terms of the kind of work that is to be done, when in 2018? There is not much of it left.

Mr Boyer : That's true.

Senator MOORE: In the spring or summer session?

Mr Boyer : It's obviously subject to government consideration. The findings will be presented to the minister, certainly, in 2018. It's up to the government how they choose to respond to those recommendations.

Senator MOORE: Can you remind me what the membership of the committee is? I know you have that there.

Mr Boyer : The committee is chaired by Kerrie Mather, the former CEO of Sydney Airport. Committee members include Ms Karen Bolinger, President of the Association of Australian Convention Bureaux; Ms Cinzia Burns, Executive Director of Helloworld Travel; Mr Todd Coates, the former CEO of BridgeClimb; Mr John Hart, Executive Chair of the Australian Chamber of Tourism; Mr Clark Kirby, CEO of Village Roadshow Theme Parks; Mr Harvey Lister, Chairman and CEO of AEG Ogden; Mr Andrew Williams, CEO of Dransfield Hotels and Resorts; and Mr O'Sullivan, Managing Director of Tourism Australia.

Senator MOORE: Does it have a term?

Mr Boyer : There is no fixed term that I recall from the original press release. I believe it is until their job is complete.

Senator MOORE: It is still aiming at this stage, subject to government action, to release in 2018.

Mr Boyer : I should be clear that the plan is for it to be provided to government in 2018. Whether it will be released in 2018 is up to—

Senator MOORE: Then we will ask government whether we can see it. The first step is to get it to government. And this goes to the Tourism Minister?

Mr Boyer : That's right.

Senator MOORE: I have questions on the Tourism Access Working Group. This is another group established by government, a while ago, in 2010. When did the Tourism Access Working Group last meet and how many times has it met in the past year?

Mr Boyer : My apologies, I might have to take this on notice. Of all of my back-pocket briefs I do not have one on the TAWG. I can tell you the last time it met would have been earlier this year, I recall. Senator Ciobo chaired a meeting in Parliament House. I will have to take that on notice.

Senator MOORE: That is the threshold question. I will read these into the record. When did it meet? When will it next meet? Are there any lists of achievements in terms of what their work pattern is and what their goals were and what they've achieved? The Tourism Access Working Group's membership is composed of serious contributors to the tourism and aviation sector, so I'd like to know on notice who they are and what is the expectation of the best use of their expertise. When you read through the list of the members of the previous working group, you could see their links. I'd like the same thing. How will the Tourism Access Working Group inform the Beyond Tourism 2020 strategy, and how are they working with the steering committee that's been established for that particular group? Are you making sure that people are sharing their talents and expertise?

Mr Boyer : To a degree. There is some crossover membership.

Senator MOORE: I noticed a couple.

Mr Boyer : Forums are quite different. The Tourism Access Working Group is a forum for discussion of key tourism issues in part as they affect other portfolios, such as the infrastructure portfolio around aviation, the immigration portfolio and the home affairs portfolio which determines visas and those sorts of issues as well. It's a bit different from the scope of work associated with the Beyond Tourism 2020 strategy.

Senator MOORE: It would have to be, otherwise you wouldn't have two committees. I'm trying to find out whether there is anything they do work together on, particularly with that couple of joint members.,

Mr Boyer : We will answer on notice.

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms Halbert and representatives of Tourism Australia and Austrade. I thank the minister, the assistant minister and the staff for their assistance, all officials from the various departments and agencies, broadcasting, Hansard, especially the secretariat and staff that made it run so well, along with my senatorial colleagues. I thank them for their co-operation. The hearing is now concluded.

Committee adjourned at 10:24