Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee
25/10/2017
Estimates
DEFENCE PORTFOLIO

DEFENCE PORTFOLIO

In Attendance

Senator Payne, Minister for Defence

Department of Defence

Mr Greg Moriarty, Secretary

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Outcome 1: Defence Australia and its national interests through the conduct of operations and provisions of support for the Australian community and civilian authorities in accordance with Government direction.

Program 1.1: Operations contributing to the safety of the immediate neighbourhood

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Vice Admiral Tim Barrett, AO, CSC, RAN, Chief of Navy

Lieutenant General Angus Campbell AO, DSC, Chief of Army

Air Marshal Leo Davies, AO, CSC, Chief of Air Force

Program 1.2: Operations supporting wider interests

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Vice Admiral Tim Barrett, AO, CSC, RAN, Chief of Navy

Lieutenant General Angus Campbell AO, DSC, Chief of Army

Air Marshal Leo Davies, AO, CSC, Chief of Air Force

Program 1.3: Defence contribution to national support tasks in Australia

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Vice Admiral Tim Barrett, AO, CSC, RAN, Chief of Navy

Lieutenant General Angus Campbell AO, DSC, Chief of Army

Air Marshal Leo Davies, AO, CSC, Chief of Air Force

Outcome 2: Protect and advance Australia's strategic interests through the provision of strategic policy, the development, delivery and sustainment of military, intelligence and enabling capabilities, and the promotion of regional and global security and stability as directed by Government.

Program 2.1: Strategic Policy and Intelligence

Ms Rebecca Skinner, Deputy Secretary, Strategic Policy and Intelligence

Mr Marc Ablong, First Assistant Secretary, Naval Shipbuilding Taskforce

Mr Scott Dewar, First Assistant Secretary, International Policy

Mr Tom Hamilton, First Assistant Secretary, Strategic Policy

Mr Michael Shoebridge, First Assistant Secretary, Contestability

Program 2.2: Defence Executive Support

Mr Brendan Sargeant, Associate Secretary

Mr James Gaynor, CSC, Inspector General, Australian Defence Force

Air Commodore Henrik Ehlers, AM, Director General, Cultural Reviews Response

Mr Mark Cunliffe, Head, Defence Legal

Mr Michael Lysewycz, Defence Special Counsel

Dr Thomas Clarke, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Audit and Fraud Control

Ms Celia Perkins, First Assistant Secretary, Security and Vetting Service

Mr Peter West, Assistant Secretary, Security Policy and Plans, Security and Vetting Service

Program 2.3: Chief Finance Officer

Mr Phillip Prior, Chief Finance Officer

Program 2.4: Vice Chief of the Defence Force

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Rear Admiral Bruce Kafer, AM, CSC, Head Reserve and Youth Division

Rear Admiral Peter Quinn, CSC, Head Joint Capability Management and Integration

Air Vice Marshal Melvin Hupfeld, Head Force Design

Brigadier Wayne Budd, Chief of Staff Australian Defence Force Headquarters

Mr Patrick Hetherington, Assistant Secretary, Investment Portfolio Management

Joint Capabilities

Air Vice Marshal Warren McDonald, AM, CSC, Chief of Joint Capabilities

Air Vice Marshal Tracy Smart, AM, Commander Joint Health

Major General Marcus Thompson, AM, Deputy Chief Information Warfare

Brigadier Stephen Beaumont, AM, Director General Information Warfare

Program 2.6: Navy Capabilities

Vice Admiral Tim Barrett, AO, CSC, RAN, Chief of Navy

Program 2.7: Army Capabilities

Lieutenant General Angus Campbell AO, DSC, Chief of Army

Program 2.8: Air Force Capabilities

Air Marshal Leo Davies, AO, CSC, Chief of Air Force

Program 2.9: Joint Operations Command

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, Acting Chief of the Defence Force

Program 2.10: Capability Acquisition and Sustainment

Mr Kim Gillis, Deputy Secretary Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group

Rear Admiral Greg Sammut, AM, CSC, RAN, Head Future Submarine Program

Mr Stephen Johnson, General Manager Submarines

Air Vice Marshal Leigh Gordon, AM, CSM, Head Joint Strike Fighter

Major General David Coghlan, AM, Head Land Systems

Major General Andrew Mathewson, Head Helicopter Systems Division

Rear Admiral Adam Grunsell, AM, CSC, RAN, Head Maritime Systems

Rear Admiral Tony Dalton, RAN, Head Joint Systems

Air Vice Marshal Cath Roberts, AM, CSC, Head Aerospace Systems

Mr Ivan Zlabur, First Assistant Secretary Joint Systems

Ms Victoria Bergmann, First Assistant Secretary Procurement and Contracting

Mr Brendhan Egan, Assistant Secretary Governance and Management

Program 2.11: Estate and Infrastructure

Mr Steve Grzeskowiak, Deputy Secretary, Estate and Infrastructure

Mr Chris Birrer, First Assistant Secretary, Infrastructure

Mr Luke McLeod, Assistant Secretary, Per- and Poly-Fluoroalkyl Substances Investigation and Management

Dr Mathew Klein, Senior Physician Occupational and Environmental Medicine

Program 2.12: Chief Information Officer

Mr Aiyaswami Mohan, Acting Chief Information Officer

Program 2.13: Defence People

Ms Roxanne Kelley, Deputy Secretary, Defence People

Brigadier Natasha A. Fox AM, CSC, Acting Head, People Capability

Mr Richard Oliver, First Assistant Secretary, People Services

Ms Rowena Bain, Acting First Assistant Secretary, People Policy and Culture

Program 2.14: Defence Science and Technology

Dr Alex Zelinsky, AO, Chief Defence Scientist

Program 2.15: Defence Force Superannuation Benefits

Ms Roxanne Kelley, Deputy Secretary, Defence People

Program 2.16: Defence Force Superannuation Nominal Interest

Ms Roxanne Kelley, Deputy Secretary, Defence People

Program 2.17: Housing Assistance

Mr Steve Grzeskowiak, Deputy Secretary, Estate and Infrastructure

Program 2.18: Other Administered

Mr David Spouse, First Assistant Secretary, Financial Services

Defence Housing Australia

Ms Jo Abbot, General Manager, Finance

Mr Elvio Bechelli, Acting Chief Financial Officer

Mr John Dietz, General Manager, Property Provisioning Group

Mr Vern Gallagher, General Manager, Communication and Client Relations

Mr Robert Henman, General Manager, Investment Management

Mr Ross Jordan, General Manager, Governance

Mr Brett Jorgensen, General Manager, Property and Tenancy Services

Mr Rob Lafreniere, General Manager, Member Choice Accommodation

Mr Jeremy Logan, Senior Executive Officer

Mr Steve Ryan, Manager, People and Capability

Ms Jan Mason, Managing Director

Mr Shane Nielsen, General Manager, Business Enablement

Ms Suzanne Pitson, General Manager, Sales and Marketing

Department of Veterans' Affairs

Corporate and General Matters

Mr Simon Lewis, PSM, Secretary

Ms Liz Cosson AM CSC, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Craig Orme, DSC AM CSC, Deputy President

Major General Mark Kelly AO DSC, Repatriation Commissioner

Ms Narelle Dotta, First Assistant Secretary, Business Support Services Division

Mr Graeme Rochow, Assistant Secretary/Chief Finance Officer, Finance and Property Branch

Ms Liane Pettitt, Assistant Secretary, Parliamentary, Governance and Information Branch

Mr Shane McLeod, Assistant Secretary/CIO, ICT Solutions Branch

Mr Roger Winzenberg, Assistant Secretary, People and Security Branch

Ms Carolyn Spiers, Assistant Secretary/Principal Legal Advisor, Legal Services and Assurance Branch

Dr Ian Gardner, Principal Medical Adviser

Dr Stephanie Hodson, National Manager, Veterans and Veterans Families Counselling Service

Ms Lisa Foreman, First Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation and Support Division

Mr John Geary, First Assistant Secretary, Claims and Operations Division

Ms Edel Kairouz, Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation, Policy and Reform Branch

Mr Mark Harrigan, Assistant Secretary, Compensation and Income Support Policy Branch

Ms Amber Vardos, Acting Assistant Secretary, Grants and Advocacy Branch

Mr John Sadeik, Acting Deputy Commissioner NSW/ACT

Ms Michelle Glanville, Acting Assistant Secretary, Business Improvement and Support Branch

Mrs Janice Silby, Deputy Commissioner SA, Income and Support Branch

Ms Veronica Hancock, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Health and Community Services Division

Ms Leanne Cameron, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Commemorations and War Graves Division

Ms Kate Pope, First Assistant Secretary, Transformation and Engagement Division

Mr Richard Magor, Assistant Secretary, Veteran Centric Reform Implementation Branch

Mr Alex Gerrick, Assistant Secretary, Communication and Engagement Branch

Mr Neil Bayles, Assistant Secretary, Portfolio Program and Assurance Management Office

Outcome 1—Maintain and enhance the financial wellbeing and self-sufficiency of eligible persons and their dependants through access to income support, compensation, and other support services, including advice and information about entitlements.

Program 1.1—Veterans' income support and allowances

Program 1.2: Veterans' disability support

Program 1.3: Assistance to Defence widow/ers and dependants

Program 1.4: Assistance and other compensation for veterans and dependants

Program 1.5: Veterans' Children Education Scheme

Program 1.6: Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Acts—income support and compensation

Program 1.7: Adjustments to the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Acts liability provisions—income support and compensation

Mr Simon Lewis PSM, Secretary

Ms Liz Cosson AM CSC, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Craig Orme DSC AM CSC, Deputy President

Ms Lisa Foreman, First Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation and Support Division

Mr John Geary, First Assistant Secretary, Claims and Operations Division

Mr Mark Harrigan, Assistant Secretary, Compensation and Income Support Policy Branch

Ms Amber Vardos, Acting Assistant Secretary, Income Support and Grants Branch

Ms Edel Kairouz, Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation, Policy and Reform Branch

Mr John Sadeik, Acting Deputy Commissioner NSW/ACT

Ms Michelle Glanville, Acting Assistant Secretary, Business Improvement and Support Branch

Mrs Janice Silby, Deputy Commissioner SA, Income and Support Branch

Ms Veronica Hancock, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Health and Community Services Division

Mr John Fely, Assistant Secretary, Provider Engagement and Assurance Branch

Mr Alex Gerrick, Assistant Secretary, Communication and Engagement Branch

Mr Neil Bayles, Assistant Secretary, Portfolio Program and Assurance Management Office

Ms Carolyn Spiers, Assistant Secretary/Principal Legal Adviser, Legal Services and Assurance Branch

Outcome 2—Maintain and enhance the physical wellbeing and quality of life of eligible persons and their dependents through health and other care services that promote early intervention, prevention and treatment, including advice and information about health service entitlements.

Program 2.1—General medical consultations and services

Program 2.2: Veterans' hospital services

Program 2.3: Veterans' pharmaceutical benefits

Program 2.4: Veterans' community care and support

Program 2.5: Veterans' counselling and other health services

Program 2.6: Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Acts—Health and other care services

Program 2.7: Adjustment to the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Acts liability provisions—health other care services

Mr Simon Lewis PSM, Secretary

Ms Liz Cosson AM CSC, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Craig Orme DSC AM CSC, Deputy President

Major General Mark Kelly AO DSC, Repatriation Commissioner

Dr Ian Gardner, Principal Medical Adviser

Dr Stephanie Hodson, National Manager, Veterans and Veterans Families Counselling Service

Ms Veronica Hancock, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Health and Community Services Division

Ms Kym Connolly, Acting Assistant Secretary, Mental and Social Health Branch

Mr John Fely, Assistant Secretary, Procurement and Contract Management Branch

Ms Alison Hale, Acting Assistant Secretary, Policy Branch

Mrs Robyn Kemp, Assistant Secretary, Program Management Branch

Ms Maralyn Newman, Acting Assistant Secretary, Service Access Branch

Ms Lisa Foreman, First Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation and Support Division

Mr John Geary First Assistant Secretary, Claims and Operations Division

Ms Amber Vardos, Acting Assistant Secretary, Grants and Advocacy Branch

Mr John Sadeik, Acting Deputy Commissioner NSW/ACT

Ms Michelle Glanville, Acting Assistant Secretary, Business Improvement and Support Branch

Mrs Janice Silby, Deputy Commissioner SA, Income and Support Branch

Ms Carolyn Spiers, Assistant Secretary/Principal Legal Adviser, Legal Services and Assurance Branch

Mr Mark Harrigan, Assistant Secretary, Compensation and Income Support Policy Branch

Ms Edel Kairouz, Assistant Secretary, Rehabilitation, Policy and Reform Branch

Mr Neil Bayles, Assistant Secretary, Portfolio Program and Assurance Management Office

Outcome 3—Acknowledgement and commemoration of those who served Australia and its allies in wars, conflicts and peace operations though promoting recognition of service and sacrifice, preservation of Australia's wartime heritage, and official commemorations.

Program Branch 3.1—War graves and commemorations

Program 3.2: Gallipoli related activities

Mr Simon Lewis, PSM, Secretary

Ms Liz Cosson AM CSC, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Craig Orme DSC AM CSC, Deputy President

Major General Mark Kelly, AO DSC, Repatriation Commissioner

Ms Leanne Cameron, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Commemorations and War Graves Division

Mr John McKinnon, Acting Assistant Secretary, Commemorations Branch

Mr Ian Fletcher, Deputy Director Overseas Projects, Office of Australian War Graves

Ms Carolyn Spiers, Assistant Secretary/Principal Legal Adviser, Legal Services and Assurance Branch

Australian War Memorial

Outcome 1—Australians remembering, interpreting and understanding the Australian experience of war and its enduring impact through maintaining and developing the national memorial, its collection and exhibition of historical material, commemorative ceremonies and research.

Program 1.1: Commemorative ceremonies

Program 1.2: National memorial and grounds

Program 1.3: National collection

Program 1.4: Exhibitions

Program 1.5: Interpretive services

Program 1.6: Promotion and community services

Program 1.7: Research and information dissemination

Program 1.8: Visitor services

Dr Brendan Nelson, Director

Ms Leanne Patterson, Assistant Director, Corporate Services

Mr Tim Sullivan, Assistant Director, National Collection

Major General Brian Dawson (Ret'd), Executive Manager, Spirit of ANZAC Centenary Experience

Ms Anne Bennie, Assistant Director, Public Programs

Committee met at 09:00

CHAIR ( Senator McKenzie ): I declare open this hearing of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee. The committee will begin its examination of the supplementary budget estimates for 2017-18 with the Department of Defence. We will then move to Defence Housing Australia followed by the Australian War Memorial and will conclude today with the Department of Veterans' Affairs. The committee will examine the Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio tomorrow. The committee has fixed Friday, 3 November 2017 as the date for senators to provide written questions on notice and Friday, 8 December 2017 as the date for the return of answers to questions taken on notice. Under standing order 26, the committee must take all evidence in public session, and this includes answers to questions on notice.

I remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee, and such action may be treated by the Senate as a contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence to a committee. The Senate, by resolution 99, endorsed the following test of relevance for questions at estimates hearings. Any questions going to the operations or financial positions of the departments and agencies which are seeking funds in the estimates are relevant questions for the purpose of estimates hearings. I remind officers that the Senate has resolved that there are no areas in connection with the expenditure of public funds where any person has a discretion to withhold details or explanations from the parliament or its committees unless the parliament has expressly provided otherwise. The Senate has resolved also an officer of a department of the Commonwealth shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked of the officer to senior officers or to a minister. This resolution prohibits only questions asking for opinions on matters of policy and does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about when and how policies were adopted.

I particularly draw attention of witnesses to an order of the Senate of 13 May 2009 specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised. Witnesses are specifically reminded that a statement that information or a document is confidential or consists of advice to government is not a statement that meets the requirement of the 2009 order. Instead, witnesses are required to provide some specific indication of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or the document. I incorporate the public immunity statement.

    The extract read as follows—

Public interest immunity claims

That the Senate—

(a) notes that ministers and officers have continued to refuse to provide information to Senate committees without properly raising claims of public interest immunity as required by past resolutions of the Senate;

(b) reaffirms the principles of past resolutions of the Senate by this order, to provide ministers and officers with guidance as to the proper process for raising public interest immunity claims and to consolidate those past resolutions of the Senate;

(c) orders that the following operate as an order of continuing effect:

(1) If:

   (a) a Senate committee, or a senator in the course of proceedings of a committee, requests information or a document from a Commonwealth department or agency; and

   (b) an officer of the department or agency to whom the request is directed believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the officer shall state to the committee the ground on which the officer believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, and specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(2) If, after receiving the officer’s statement under paragraph (1), the committee or the senator requests the officer to refer the question of the disclosure of the information or document to a responsible minister, the officer shall refer that question to the minister.

(3) If a minister, on a reference by an officer under paragraph (2), concludes that it would not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the minister shall provide to the committee a statement of the ground for that conclusion, specifying the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(4) A minister, in a statement under paragraph (3), shall indicate whether the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee could result only from the publication of the information or document by the committee, or could result, equally or in part, from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee as in camera evidence.

(5) If, after considering a statement by a minister provided under paragraph (3), the committee concludes that the statement does not sufficiently justify the withholding of the information or document from the committee, the committee shall report the matter to the Senate.

(6) A decision by a committee not to report a matter to the Senate under paragraph (5) does not prevent a senator from raising the matter in the Senate in accordance with other procedures of the Senate.

(7) A statement that information or a document is not published, or is confidential, or consists of advice to, or internal deliberations of, government, in the absence of specification of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document, is not a statement that meets the requirements of paragraph (1) or (4).

(8) If a minister concludes that a statement under paragraph (3) should more appropriately be made by the head of an agency, by reason of the independence of that agency from ministerial direction or control, the minister shall inform the committee of that conclusion and the reason for that conclusion, and shall refer the matter to the head of the agency, who shall then be required to provide a statement in accordance with paragraph (3).

(d) requires the Procedure Committee to review the operation of this order and report to the Senate by 20 August 2009.

(13 May 2009 J.1941)

(Extract, Senate Standing Orders)

An officer called to answer a question for the first time should state their full name and the capacity in which they appear, and witnesses should speak clearly into the microphones to assist Hansard to record proceedings. I remind senators and observers that mobile phones should be switched off or turned to silent. If you want to know when we get a break, check out the program—it's all listed on the back.