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Economics Legislation Committee
21/10/2015
Estimates
TREASURY PORTFOLIO

TREASURY PORTFOLIO

In Attendance

Senator Cormann, Minister for Finance

Senator Sinodinos, Cabinet Secretary

Senator Ryan, Assistant Cabinet Secretary

Executive

Mr John Fraser , Secretary

Output Group 1.1—Macroeconomic Group/Chief Operating Officer Group (incorporating Corporate Strategy and Services and Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division)

Mr Nigel Ray, Deputy Secretary

Ms Kerstin Wijeyewardene, Division Head, International Policy and Engagement Division

Mr Chris Legg, Chief Adviser, International Policy and Engagement Division

Ms HK Yu, International, International Policy and Engagement Division

Mr Simon Duggan, Division Head, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Dr Michael Kouparitsas, Acting Division Head, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Mr Brenton Goldsworthy, Acting Division Head, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Mr David Drage, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Ms Angelia Grant, Acting Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Mr John Lonsdale, Deputy Secretary, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Peter Alexander, Division Head, Business Services Division

Mr Matthew King, Division Head, Financial and Parliamentary Division

Ms Emma Greenwood, Division Head, Organisational Strategy , People and Communications Division

Ms Shannon Kenna, Acting Head of Communications, Organisational Strategy, People and Communications Division

Mr Adam McKissack, Acting Division Head, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mr Trevor Thomas, Principal Adviser, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mrs Tarin O'Connor, Team Leader Workforce Strategy, Organisational Strategy , People and Communications Division

Output Group 1.1—Macroeconomic Group/Corporate Strategy and Services Group

Ms HK Holdaway, Acting Deputy Secretary, International

Ms Jenny Wilkinson, Acting Deputy Secretary, Domestic

Mr Simon Duggan, General Manager, Macroeconomic Modelling and Policy Division

Ms Christine Barron, General Manager, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Mr Brenton Goldsworthy, Principal Adviser, Macroeconomic Conditions Division

Ms Kerstin Wijeyewardene, Acting General Manager, International Policy and Engagement Division

Mr John Lonsdale, Chief Operating Officer

Ms Mary Balzary, Group General Manager

Mr Matthew King, Chief Finance Officer, Financial and Parliamentary Division

Mr Nick Creagh, Deputy Chief Finance Officer, Financial and Parliamentary Division

Mr Luke Hickey, General Manager, Publishing and Engagement Division

Ms Shannon Kenna, Manager Community Engagement Unit, Publishing and Engagement Division

Ms Emma Greenwood, General Manager, People and Organisational Strategy Division

Ms Tarin O'Connor, Acting Team Leader, People and Organisational Strategy Division

Mr Peter Alexander, General Manager, Business Services Division

Output Group 2.1—Revenue Group

Mr Rob Heferen, Deputy Secretary

Mr Russ Campbell, Division Head, Small Business Tax Division

Ms Jess Mohr, Manager, Small Business Tax Division

Mr David Lowe, Manager, Small Business Tax Division

Ms Jodie Wearne, Senior Adviser, Small Business Tax Division

Mr Steve French, Division Head, Tax Analysis Division

Ms Marisa Purvis-Smith, Principal Adviser, Tax Analysis Division

Mr Anthony King, Manager, Tax Analysis Division

Mrs Luise McCulloch, Division Head, Corporate and International Tax Division

Mr Brendan McKenna, Manager, Corporate and International Tax Division

Mr Paul Tilley, Division Head, Personal and Retirement Income Division

Mr Roger Brake, Division Head, Tax White Paper Task Force

Ms Emily Hurley, Senior Adviser, Tax White Paper Task Force

Mr Tom Reid, Division Head, Law Design Practice

Mr Tony Regan, Manager, Law Design Practice

Ms Katherine Lynch, Senior Adviser, Small Business Tax Division

Mr Matthew Maloney, Manager, Tax Analysis Division, Business and Indirect Tax Costings Unit.

Dr John Clark, Senior Adviser, Tax Analysis Division, Revenue Analysis Unit.

Mr Matt Brine, Manager, Corporate and International Tax Division

Mr Anthony Regan Principal Advisor Law Design Practice

Ms Danika Maxwell, Corporate and International Tax Division

Output Group 3.1—Fiscal Group

Mr Nigel Ray, Deputy Secretary

Mr Damien White, Division Head, Industries and Infrastructure Division

Ms Jenny Wilkinson, Chief Adviser, Industries and Infrastructure Division

Ms Sam Reinhardt, Division Head, Commonwealth-State Relations Division

Ms Lee Steel, Manager, Federal Finances Unit, Commonwealth-State Relations Division

Ms Karla Rayner, Manager, Commonwealth-State Relations Division

Ms Leesa Croke, Division Head, Social Policy Division

Mr Rob Raether, Principal Adviser, Social Policy Division

Mr Marty Robinson, Principal Adviser, Social Policy Division

Ms Jenny Allen, Principal Adviser, Jobs and Small Business Taskforce, Social Policy Division

Ms Michelle Dowdell, Manager, Transfers and Social Services Unit, Social Policy Division

Mr Matt Flavel, Division Head, Budget Policy Division

Mr Jonathan Rollings, Principal Adviser, Budget Policy Division

Mr Matt Crooke, Principal Adviser, Budget Policy Division

Output Group 4.1—Markets Group

Mr Michael Wi llcock, Acting Deputy Secretary

Mr John Lonsdale, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Rob Donelly, General Manager, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mr Paul McCullough, Division Head, Deregulation Division

Mr Patrick Boneham, Acting Division Head, Small Business, Competition and Consumer Policy Division

Mr Ben Dolman, Principal Adviser, Small Business, Competition and Consumer Policy Division

Ms Anne Scott, Principal Adviser, Small Business, Competition and Consumer Policy Division

Ms Meghan Quinn, Division Head, Financial System and Services Division

Ms Vicki Wilkinson, Principal Adviser, Financial System and Services Division

Mr Trevor Power, Principal Adviser, Financial System and Services Division

Ms Diane Brown, Principal Adviser, Financial System and Services Division

Mr Bede Fraser, Principal Adviser, Financial System and Services Division

Mr David Pearl, Principal Adviser, Financial System and Services Division

Mr Rupert Jolley, Chief Adviser, Sydney Office, Financial System and Services Division

Mr Adam McKissack, Acting Division Head, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mr Trevor Thomas, Principal Adviser, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mr David Earl, Manager, Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division

Mr Peter Martin, Australian Government Actuary

Mr Michael Burt, Australian Government Actuary

Mr Michael O'Neill, Senior Assistant Commissioner, ATO

Australian Accounting Standards Board

Ms Kris Peach, Chair

Mr Angus Thomson, Research Director

Auditing and Assurance Standards Board

Ms Merran Kelsall, Chair

Mr Richard Mifsud, Executive Director

Australian Bureau of Statistics

Mr David Kalisch, Australian Statistician

Ms Christine Barron, Acting Deputy Australian Statistician, Statistical Services Group

Mr Jonathan Palmer, Deputy Australian Statistician, Chief Operating Officer, Enabling Services Group

Mr Bruce Hockman, General Manager, Macroeconomic Statistics Division

Ms Jacky Hodges, Acting General Manager, Industry Statistics Division

Dr Paul Jelfs, General Manager, Population and Social Statistics Division

Ms Gemma Van Halderen, General Manager, Strategic Partnerships and Projects Division

Ms Gillian Nicoll, Acting General Manager, Statistical Business Transformation Program

Mr Paul Schubert, Program Manager, Statistical Methodology Branch

Mr Lane Masterton, Program Manager, Technology Capability Branch

Mr Chris Libreri, Acting General Manager, Governance, People and Culture Division

Ms Christine Williams, Program Manager, Governance and Parliamentary Liaison Branch

Ms Julianne Jex, Acting Program Manager, Human Resources Branch

Mr Warren Rushby, Acting Program Manager, Financial Management Branch

Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission

Ms Susan Pascoe, Commissioner

Mr David Locke, Assistant Commissioner

Mr Murray Baird, Assistant Commissioner

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

Mr Rod Sims, Chairman

Ms Rayne de Gruchy, Chief Operating Officer

Ms Michelle Groves, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Energy Regulator

Mr Nigel Ridgway, Executive General Manager , Consumer, Small Business and Product Safety Division

Mr Michael Cosgrave, Executive General Manager, Infrastructure Division

Mr Scott Gregson, Executive General Manager, Consumer Enforcement

Mr Marcus Bezzi, Executive General Manager, Competition Enforcement

Mr Rami Greiss, Executive General Manager , Merger and Authorisation Review

Ms Melinda McDonald, Acting Executive General Manager , Consumer Enforcement

Ms Gabrielle Ford, General Manager , Agricultural Enforcement and Engagement Unit

Mr Richard Fleming, General Manager , Enforcement ACT and National Projects

Australian Office of Financial Management

Mr Rob Nicholl, Chief Executive Officer

Mr Michael Bath, Director, Financial Risk

Mr Andrew Johnson, Head of Reporting

Mr Pat Raccosta, Chief Finance Officer

Australian Prudential Regulation Authority

Mr Wayne Byres, Chairman

Mrs Helen Rowell, Member

Mr Charles Littrell, Executive General Manager, Supervisory Support Division

Mr Keith Chapman, Executive General Manager, Specialised Institutions Division

Mr Neil Smith, Special Counsel, Policy and Advice Division

Australian Securities and Investments Commission

Mr Greg Medcraft, Chairman

Mr Peter Kell, Deputy Chairman

Mr Greg Tanzer, Commissioner

Mr John Price, Commissioner

Ms Cathie Armour, Commissioner

Mr Tim Mullaly, Senior Executive Leader

Mr Michael Saadat, Senior Executive Leader

Ms Louise Macaulay, Senior Executive Leader

Mr Chris Savundra, Senior Executive Leader

Mr Greg Kirk, Senior Executive Leader

Ms Joanna Bird, Senior Executive Leader

Mr Warren Day Senior Executive Leader and Regional Commissioner Victoria

Australian Taxation Office

Mr Chris Jordan, Commissioner of Taxation

Mr Geoff Leeper, Second Commissioner, People Systems and Services Group

Mr Jonathan Woodger, Acting Second Commissioner, Law Design and Practice

Mr Andrew Mills, Second Commissioner, Law Design and Practice Group

Mr Neil Olesen, Second Commissioner, Compliance Group

Ms Frances Cawthra, Chief Finance Officer

Ms Jacqui Curtis, First Assistant Commissioner, ATO People

Ms Suzanne Sinclair, First Assistant Commissioner, ATO Corporate

Mr David Diment, Deputy Commissioner, Client Account Services

Ms Cheryl-Lea Field, Deputy Commissioner, Debt

Mr John Dardo, Acting Deputy Commissioner, Customer Services and Solutions

Ms Alison Lendon, Deputy Commissioner, Superannuation

Mr Matthew Bambrick, Assistant Commissioner, Superannuation

Mr Mark Konza, Deputy Commissioner, International

Mr Jeremy Hirschhorn, Deputy Commissioner, Public Groups

Mr James O'Halloran, Deputy Commissioner, Indirect Tax

Mr Tony Poulakis, Assistant Commissioner, Private Groups and High Wealth Individuals

Ms Debbie Hastings, First Assistant Commissioner, Review and Dispute Resolution

Mr Damien Browne, Assistant Commissioner, Review and Dispute Resolution

Mr Andrew England, First Assistant Commissioner, Integrated Tax Design

Clean Energy Finance Corporation

Mr Oliver Yates, Chief Executive Officer

Ms Meg McDonald, Chief Operating Officer

Mr Andrew Powell, Chief Financial Officer

Commonwealth Grants Commission

Mr John Spasojevic, Secretary

Mr Gary Markham, Acting Director Corporate Services

Inspector-General of Taxation

Mr Ali Noroozi, Inspector-General of Taxation

Mr Andrew McLoughlin, Deputy Inspector-General of Taxation

Productivity Commission

Mr Peter Harris, Chair

Ms Patricia Scott, Deputy Chair

Mr Daryl Quinlivan, Head of Office

Ms Nina Davidson, Acting Head of Office

Dr Ralph Lattimore, First Assistant Commissioner, Canberra Office

Mr Paul Gretton, Assistant Commissioner

Ms Rosalyn Bell, Assistant Commissioner

Takeovers Panel

Mr Allan Bulman, Director

Reserve Bank of Australia

Mr Frank Campbell, Assistant Governor, Corporate Services

Dr Anthony Richards, Head, Payments Policy Department

Committee met at 09:00

CHAIR ( Senator Edwards ): I declare open this public hearing of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee. The Senate has referred to the committee the particulars of proposed expenditure for 2015-16 and related documents for the Treasury and Industry, Innovation and Science portfolios. The committee has set Friday, 30 October as the date by which senators are to submit written questions on notice and has set Friday, 4 December 2015 as the date by which answers to questions taken on notice are to be returned.

Under standing order 26, the committee must take all evidence in public session. This includes answers to questions taken on notice. Officers and senators are familiar with the rules of the Senate governing Senate estimates hearings. If you need assistance, the secretariat has a copy of the rules. In particular, I draw the attention of witnesses to an order of the Senate of 13 May 2009 specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised, which I now incorporate in Hansard.

The extract read as follows—

Public interest immunity claims

That the Senate—

(a) notes that ministers and officers have continued to refuse to provide information to Senate committees without properly raising claims of public interest immunity as required by past resolutions of the Senate;

(b) reaffirms the principles of past resolutions of the Senate by this order, to provide ministers and officers with guidance as to the proper process for raising public interest immunity claims and to consolidate those past resolutions of the Senate;

(c) orders that the following operate as an order of continuing effect:

(1) If:

   (a) a Senate committee, or a senator in the course of proceedings of a committee, requests information or a document from a Commonwealth department or agency; and

   (b) an officer of the department or agency to whom the request is directed believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the officer shall state to the committee the ground on which the officer believes that it may not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, and specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(2) If, after receiving the officer’s statement under paragraph (1), the committee or the senator requests the officer to refer the question of the disclosure of the information or document to a responsible minister, the officer shall refer that question to the minister.

(3) If a minister, on a reference by an officer under paragraph (2), concludes that it would not be in the public interest to disclose the information or document to the committee, the minister shall provide to the committee a statement of the ground for that conclusion, specifying the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document.

(4) A minister, in a statement under paragraph (3), shall indicate whether the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee could result only from the publication of the information or document by the committee, or could result, equally or in part, from the disclosure of the information or document to the committee as in camera evidence.

(5) If, after considering a statement by a minister provided under paragraph (3), the committee concludes that the statement does not sufficiently justify the withholding of the information or document from the committee, the committee shall report the matter to the Senate.

(6) A decision by a committee not to report a matter to the Senate under paragraph (5) does not prevent a senator from raising the matter in the Senate in accordance with other procedures of the Senate.

(7) A statement that information or a document is not published, or is confidential, or consists of advice to, or internal deliberations of, government, in the absence of specification of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or document, is not a statement that meets the requirements of paragraph (1) or (4).

(8) If a minister concludes that a statement under paragraph (3) should more appropriately be made by the head of an agency, by reason of the independence of that agency from ministerial direction or control, the minister shall inform the committee of that conclusion and the reason for that conclusion, and shall refer the matter to the head of the agency, who shall then be required to provide a statement in accordance with paragraph (3).

(d) requires the Procedure Committee to review the operation of this order and report to the Senate by 20 August 2009.

(13 May 2009 J.1941)

(Extract, Senate Standing Orders, pp 124-125)

Witnesses are specifically reminded that a statement that information or a document is confidential, or consists of advice to government, is not a statement that meets the requirements of the 2009 order. Instead, witnesses are required to provide some specific indication of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of the information or the document.

I remind senators and witnesses that microphones remain live unless I instruct otherwise—for example, at a suspension or adjournment. I would ask photographers and cameramen to follow the established media guidelines and the instructions of the committee secretariat. Please ensure that senators' and witnesses' laptops and personal papers are not filmed.

I remind members of the public and everyone in the gallery that they are not permitted to speak or interfere with the proceedings or the witnesses at any point during the hearing. Security is present and they will be asked to remove anyone who does not follow these instructions.

The committee will begin consideration of the Treasury portfolio with questions for the Treasury department's Macroeconomic and Corporate Strategy and Services groups. It will then follow the order set out in the circulated program. I now welcome the Minister for Finance, Senator the Hon. Mathias Cormann, representing the Treasurer, as well as the secretary and officers of the Treasury. Mr Fraser and your officers, welcome this morning.