Mr PRICE (1:37 PM) —There is an important difference between the government and the opposition in the discussion of this motion. Firstly, the opposition are in favour of both privately provided child care and council and community based child care. The member for Lindsay (Miss Jackie Kelly) is passionately in favour of private child care but is quite happy to viciously attack council and community based child care. She is saying that child care is better off as a result of this government, yet she has not talked about the $820 million that has been ripped out of child care in the last two budgets. This is not a neutral position as far as parents and child-care centres are concerned.

Penrith City Council—predominantly represented by the member for Lindsay—has 17 long day care centres, 704 long day care places, 234 preschool places, 29 occasional child-care places, 405 before and after school care places and 300 vacation care places—a total of 1,672 places. The member for Lindsay is saying that all the parents are better off because of the government's changes. Why is it that 183 families have reduced the number of days they use Penrith City Council long day care centres? Are they financial dummies? Can they not work out their daily or weekly family budgets? How is it that the member for Lindsay knows that they are better off but these families feel they are worse off and are reducing their hours? In the Penrith Council area, 181 families have totally withdrawn from long day care. Are they dummies who do not understand their daily or weekly family budgets? The honourable member for Lindsay says that they must be better off. Why are they such economic illiterates and reducing the hours of child care or totally withdrawing it? Seventy per cent of those who are withdrawing from child care are two-income families—the classic Lindsay battlers trying to pay off a mortgage. Are these two-income families economic illiterates, as the member for Lindsay suggests?

There is an issue of affordability with the fee increases so joyously triumphed by the member for Lindsay as outstanding government policy. One of the problems we are having in relation to the fee increases is that 47 per cent of families have not changed from council run or community based child care to the private sector but opted out of formal child care completely. The children are either latchkey children or the families are depending on relatives or family. This is a triumph of government policy, according to the member for Lindsay.

In the Penrith City Council child-care centres—these are Penrith City Council's words, not mine, and if the member for Lindsay thinks they are scaremongering or lying she has the opportunity to challenge them—10 per cent of all child-care workers have been sacked. Are we saying that these child-care centres were so grossly overpro vided that there will not be a loss of quality in child care? Of course not. It is the children in Lindsay who are suffering. I want to give you a couple of quotes. A father from St Clair said:

Not only has our centre been forced to increase fees, although they have tried to keep these to a minimum, but the child care rebate scheme dropped from 30% rebate to 20% rebate in April 1998 causing further hardship and financial strain on the "two parent workers".

A lady from Jamisontown in the Lindsay electorate said:

I am a single working mother of two school children and I can't afford to stay at home. And it is so hard to work now!

A child-care worker and mother from Claremont Meadows said:

The effect on child care as a parent and workers is unfair. It has made it just better off working. Trying to pay the house and bills after child care is now a problem. But at least our centre is trying to stay afloat without cutting quality or raising fees too much. But our children will suffer if the government does not wake up to themselves.

(Time expired)