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Press Conference - Parliament House Canberra



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PRESS CONFERENCE - BILL HAYDEN ON RETURN FROM ANZUS COUNCIL MEETING

IN WELLINGTON - PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA, 18 JULY 1984, 11.30 AM.

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, what1s the sta te o f the ANZUS re la tio n s h ip

now, given the New Zealand p o s itio n on nuclear ships?

HAYDEN: Mr. Lange made i t c le a r in the discussions I had w ith him

yesterday th a t the p o lic y o f his p a rty stands. He had some discussions

w ith Mr. Shultz yesterday evening and la t e r on Mr. Shultz reported to me

th a t he f e l t a l i t t l e more relaxed. He had ra th e r hoped th a t given time

a re s o lu tio n to the problem could be worked ou t. Now, I'm not sure what

the Americans have in mind, nor the New Zealanders, but Mr. Shultz did

say yesterday p u b lic ly , however, there were two very important th in g s:

one, there w i l l be no American naval vessels v i s i t i n g New Zealand f o r

the remainder o f t h is ye a r, and th a t would be according to the normal

cycle o f ship movements in the re g io n ; and secondly, th a t he hoped th a t

there would be time to resolve the problem. The two things seem to go

together.

QUESTION: What s o rt o f pressure, or indeed undertakings did A u s tra lia

give to New Zealand to t r y to keep i t in the ANZUS re la tio n s h ip ?

HAYDEN: We w on't be applying any pressure. Countries resent pressure

from other c o u n trie s , even from close frie n d s l i k e between us, between

A u s tra lia and New Zealand. We w i l l be p u ttin g our p o in t o f view, our

concerns on the m a tte r, and I have sought to do th a t. I th in k we have to

acknowledge, however, th a t the New Zealand Labor government has ju s t won

an e le c tio n in which t h is m atter was prom inently and e xte n sive ly debated

as an issue f o r the e le c tio n . The outgoing Prime M in is te r, Mr. Muldoon,

sought to make i t an issue. In s p ite o f t h a t , the New Zealand government

got a mandate to govern the a f f a i r s o f the country. I th in k th a t puts

them in a f a i r l y strong p o s itio n to argue th a t t h e ir views are upheld by

the New Zealand e le c to ra te . The second th in g is th a t the in te n s ity o f

fe e lin g in support o f ANZUS is not as p e rc e p tiv e ly strong in New Zealand

from what I can gather as i t is in A u s tr a lia .

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, when i t is sorted o u t, is there any contemplation

o f a second Treaty j u s t between A u s tra lia and America? W ell, th a t is not

something th a t is under con sideration a t t h is tim e , and th e re 's no reason

why i t should be. I can only repeat th a t Mr. Shultz said yesterday, a f t e r

ta lk in g to Mr. Lange he f e l t a l o t b e tte r about the s itu a tio n and f e l t th a t

maybe a t t h is time some s o r t o f re s o lu tio n could be worked out. Now what

the re s o lu tio n i s , I d o n 't know.

. . . / 2

18 July 1984 - 2-

QUESTION: Mr . Hayden, what does New Ze al an d l o s e by d r o p p i n g o u t o f

ANZUS and what c o u l d A u s t r a l i a l o s e i f t h e T r e a t y f e l l a p a r t ?

HAYDEN: I can o n l y t a l k a b o u t A u s t r a l i a . Y o u ' l l have t o ask' t h e

New Z e a l a n d e r s how t h e y f e e l a b o u t ANZUS and what t h e c o s t s m i g h t be,

and t h e y h a v e n ' t dr opped o u t o f i t y e t . And t h e Government has made i t

c l e a r i t d o e s n ' t w an t t o d r o p o u t o f i t , t h a t i t s u p p o r t s t h e T r e a t y as

such. Now f r o m A u s t r a l i a ' s p o i n t o f v i e w i t i s d e s i r a b l e t h a t we have

a c l o s e a s s o c i a t i o n i n as many r e s p e c t s as p o s s i b l e w i t h o u r n e i g h b o u r s ,

o u r v e r y c l o s e f r i e n d s i n New Z e a l a n d . We do t h a t i n a range o f ways,

t h e most p r o m i n e n t and s u c c e s s f u l t h e s e days i s a c l o s e r economic

r e l a t i o n s h i p w h i c h has i n c r e a s e d o u r d o m e s t i c m a r k et by 20% and t h e i r s

by 500% and g i v e s us c l o s e r i n t e g r a t i o n . A c c o r d i n g l y , i n s e c u r i t y and

d e f en ce m a t t e r s , c l o s e i n t e g r a t i o n makes sense as an e x t e n s i o n o f t h a t

and on t h e f o u n d a t i o n o f t h e h i s t o r y o f t h o s e c o u n t r i e s . The f i n a l t h i n g

I ' d say a b o u t ANZUS i s t h a t t h e r e a r e no t h r e a t s i n t h e r e g i o n i n t h e

f o r e s e e a b l e f u t u r e , so w e ' r e n o t t a l k i n g a b o u t some s o r t o f t e n s i o n ,

w o r r y i n g a b o u t t h a t . B u t t h e b e n e f i t s o f ANZUS come i n many o t h e r d i r e c t i o n s

as w e l l as t h e s e c u r i t y u n d e r t a k i n g s t h a t a r e p r o v i d e d i n i t i n t h e e v e nt

o f p r o b l e m s . They come f o r i n s t a n c e i n t h e e f f e c t i v e eyes and e a r s

o f t h e s u p p o r t we g e t , t h e s h a r i n g o f i n t e l l i g e n c e i n f o r m a t i o n whi ch i s

i m p o r t a n t t o a s m a l l c o u n t r y l i k e A u s t r a l i a . We make o u r c o n t r i b u t i o n

and sh a r e i t and we g e t a s h a r e o f t h e c o n t r i b u t i o n f r o m t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s

and New Z e a l a n d . S e c o n d l y , we have access w i t h o u t any pr obl ems t o some o f

t h e most advanced m i l i t a r y t e c h n o l o g y w h i c h t h e Americans p r o d u c e . Now,

Amer i ca d o e s n ' t p r o v i d e t h a t access f o r a g r e a t number o f c o u n t r i e s i n

t h e w o r l d , and t h a t ' s i m p o r t a n t t o a c o u n t r y l i k e A u s t r a l i a w he r e , because

o f s ma l l number s, q u a l i t y i s i m p o r t a n t .

QUESTION: Mr . Hayden, have you d i s c u s s e d w i t h Mr. S h u l t z t h e home-

p o r t i n g r e s o l u t i o n t h a t was passed by t h e Conference?

HAYDEN: No I d i d n ' t ; n o r d i d he seek t o d i s c u s s i t w i t h me.

QUESTION: Do you t h i n k i f t h e ANZUS T r e a t y i s r e n e g o t i a t e d t o

accommodate New Z e a l a n d on t h e n u c l e a r s h i p s i s s u e , w i l l you

c o n s i d e r c h a n g i n g A u s t r a l i a ' s p o l i c y on n u c l e a r s h i p s ?

HAYDEN: Wel l we h a v e n ' t g o t t o t h e p o i n t where t h e r e ' s a

r e s o l u t i o n on t h e i s s u e , and I ' m n o t s u r e t h e p r i n c i p l e s w hi c h w i l l be

a p p l i e d t o a c h i e v e a r e s o l u t i o n o f t h e i s s u e . I t h i n k w e ' r e r u s h i n g

h u r d l e s b e f o r e we even g e t t o them. I m e r e l y make one o b s e r v a t i o n , and

t h a t i s t h a t l a s t y e a r when we r e v i e w e d t h e T r e a t y q u i t e e x t e n s i v e l y ,

one o p t i o n a v a i l a b l e was t o c o n s i d e r a r e n e g o t i a t i o n o f i t . Now, we

. . . / 3

18 July 1984 -3-

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w ere n't keen about th a t because our conclusion is th a t re n e g o tia tio n o f

the Treaty may provide less s a t is f a c t o r y terms and c o n d itio n s than the

present one does. For in s ta n c e , the Americans might demand as a quid

pro quo f o r e n te rin g in to a new re n eg otiated Treaty w ith them, 'th a t we

accept q u ite c l e a r l y s p e c ifie d and defined regional o b lig a tio n s which we

m ig h tn 't be keen about. So we have p re fe rre d to s t i c k w ith the .present

Treaty but to review i t th o ro u g h ly. We did t h a t and we were s a t is f ie d

w ith the review.

QUESTION: Is the re a r o le f o r A u s tr a lia to play as a broker between -

the two c o u n t r ie s , and secondly, i f New Zealand continues to not observe

t h is p a rt o f the ANZUS T r e a ty , could t h a t put pressure w it h in the Labor

Party t o , i f you l i k e , go back to t h a t whole question o f p o rtin g nuclear

ships in A u s tra lia ?

HAYDEN: W e ll, we put our view to the New Zealanders. We've made i t

c le a r to the Americans t h a t they should put t h e i r view. We w i l l not be

ca rry in g messages f o r anyone. Beyond t h a t , we made i t c le a r , I made i t

cle a r to the Americans t h a t i t would re q u ire some s k i l l handling t h is

issue; t h a t i f the issue were to be handled c lu m s ily , i t might be misunder­

stood in New Zealand and generate resentment; and I was sure th a t i f th a t

were to be so, s i m i l a r resentment would show up in A u s t r a lia . Therefore

we d id n 't , want any misunderstanding through less than s k i l f u l handling

o f t h i s s i t u a t i o n . Now, the Treaty is s t i l l i n t a c t and in good c o n d itio n .

There w i l l be no ships v i s i t i n g New Zealand f o r the r e s t o f t h i s ye a r, f o r

the next several months, according to the normal schedule o f movement o f such

ships; and in the meantime, the re w i l l be m e d ita tio n , I presume, between

the New Zealand government and the United States about the New Zealanders'

a t t it u d e on t h i s m a tte r, and presumably something may be worked ou t. At

le a s t Mr. Shultz is hopeful something can be. I th in k we have to take

i t as i t develops. The o n ly th in g I ' d say is t h a t the New Zealand Labor

government i s much more pre-o ccupie d, much, much more preoccupied w ith

the economic c r i s i s they have i n h e r it e d . One week's reserves o f a

e xte rn a l .

$20,000 m i l l i o n / d e b t i s an e x t r a o r d i n a r i l y c r i t i c a l s it u a t io n to be i n ,

i t ' s a r o tto n in h e rita n c e to pass on to anyone, and the w orst aspect o f

i t is th a t most o f i t was concealed in a most d e c e it f u l fashion by the

outgoing government, more p a r t i c u l a r l y , the outgoing Prime M in is te r o f

New Zealand. I t h in k t h a t ' s d is g u s tin g .

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, i f A u s tr a lia and/or New Zealand remain in

the ANZUS Treaty and not accept American nuclear-powered w arships, would

you consider going back to y o u r-----

. . . / 4

18 J u ly , 1984 -4 -

♦

HAYDEN: Well t h e r e are too many " i f s " i n t h a t and we d o n ' t work on

" i f s " . Y o u ' l l have t o w a i t u n t i l we work on the substance o f the case.

QUESTION: So you w o n ' t r u l e o u t t h a t A u s t r a l i a w i l l re c o n s id e r i t s

p o l i c i e s on n u c le a r-p o w e re d s h i p s .

HAYDEN: I ' m j u s t sa y in g t h a t we d o n ' t work on " i f s " and y o u ' r e

askin g me i f c e r t a i n t h i n g s happen; the y may never happen, t h a t ' s the

p o i n t I 'm making.

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, i s i t y o u r b e l i e f t h a t the U.S. would scrap

ANZUS i f th e y cannot come t o an agreement w i t h New Zealand on v i s i t s o f

n u c le a r ships?

HAYDEN: My u n d e r s ta n d in g o f ANZUS, and I ' d have t o have a lo o k a t

i t , i s t h a t t h e r e ' s no p r o v i s i o n f o r w i t h d r a w a l . I ' d have t o check t h a t ,

b u t my u n d e r s ta n d in g i s t h a t t h e r e ' s not the usual p r o v i s i o n f o r w i t h ­

drawal . I s a id I ' d have t o check i t , so we'd b e t t e r w a i t and see.

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, g iv e n th e p e r io d o f no v i s i t s t o New Zealand

by US n u c le a r s h i p s , which way do you t h i n k th e New Zealand government

w i l l go? Do you t h i n k t h e y ' l l m o d ify t h e i r p o l i c y t o a l l o w v i s i t s i n

f u t u r e ?

HAYDEN: I have no i d e a . Only Mr. Lange could t a l k t o you on t h a t .

I cannot t a l k f o r th e New Zealand government, I cannot t a l k f o r the

Unite d S ta te s government, I can o n l y t a l k f o r . m y s e l f , f o r ou r government.

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, d o e s n ' t i t g iv e A u s t r a l i a g r e a t e r b a rg a in in g

power i n w o rkin g o u t a r e l a t i o n s h i p w i t h th e United S ta te s i f they d o n ' t

have an a l t e r n a t i v e base f o r homeporting i n t h i s region ?

HAYDEN: W e l l , t h e y d o n ' t have homeporting i n A u s t r a l i a , e i t h e r ,

our p o l i c y ' s a g a i n s t i t . T h e i r s h ip s can v i s i t . W e l l , i t depends how

i m p o r t a n t l y you re g a rd th e T r e a t y . I d o n ' t know what you have i n mind;

I h a v e n ' t looked a t i t from t h a t d i r e c t i o n .

QUESTION: You say Mr. S h u l t z i s more r e la x e d now t h a t h e 's spoken to

Mr. Lange, bu t I wonder how s e r i o u s l y you t h i n k the Americans view t h i s .

Do th e y re g a rd i t as something o f a d i p l o m a t i c s l i g h t ?

HAYDEN: Well th e y w o n ' t be s l i g h t s , b u t th e y do re gard the m a tte r

s e r i o u s l y . T h e y 'r e concerned about i t and t h e i r concern i s q u i t e e v i d e n t .

I ' v e s a i d i t b e f o r e ; I saw i t two yea rs a g o ; and t h e r e ' s no m is ta k in g

t h e i r concern about t h i s m a t t e r , about t h i s key m a t t e r o f p r i n c i p l e .

They d i r e c t l y r e l a t e i t t o th e T r e a t y . Now how i t ' s going t o be worked

ou t i s something t h a t ' s g o t t o e v o l v e , i f indeed i t does e v o lv e .

QUESTION: Would th e y p u t economic p re ssu re on New Zealand t o t r y and

. . . / 5

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m o di fy i t s stance?

HAYDEN: Mr. S h u l t z r u l e d t h a t o u t q u i t e adamantly y e s t e r d a y a t a

p u b l i c pres s c o n f e r e n c e .

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, i n view o f what you were say ing b e f o r e about

the need t o go f a i r l y q u i e t l y and g e n t l y on t h i s is s u e w i t h t h e New

Z e a l a n d e r s , were you s u r p r i s e d t h a t t h e Americans appear t o have gone i n

so hard i n the se f i r s t few days i n re g a r d t o [INDISTINCT]

pr e ss u r e on o t h e r n a t i o n s .

HAYDEN: I t h i n k t h a t one c o u l d con c ei ve o f c ir c u m s ta n c e s where the

exchanges, t h e ge ne ra l processes were handled v e r y b a d l y , o r appeared

t o be handled v e r y b a d l y and t h a t was m i s u n d e r s t o o d , and ge nerated

resentm ent - t h a t h a s n ' t happened and I ' m plea sed t h a t t h a t o c c u r r e d .

QUESTION: What do you t h i n k w i l l be t h e p r a c t i c a l e f f e c t o f the

co nf ere nce r e s o l u t i o n l a s t week on t h e p a t t e r n o f n u c l e a r s h i p v i s i t s ?

HAYDEN: Well I guess we w i l l have t o work o u t as an o r g a n i s a t i o n and

i n a s s o c i a t i o n w i t h ou r a d v i s o r s what th e p a t t e r n r e p r e s e n t s , and

what I guess would r e p r e s e n t de f a c t o home p o r t i n g , shou ld t h e p a t t e r n

become to o s u b s t a n t i a l l y en tre n c h e d so t h a t i t goes beyond normal

v i s i t s . I ' m n o t q u i t e c l e a r what t h e r e s o l u t i o n means i n f a c t .

QUESTION: W i l l t h i s lea d t o fo r m a l g u i d e l i n e s ?

HAYDEN: Well i t ' s n o t f o r me t o t a l k f o r t h e government as you

know, I ' m n o t th e Prime M i n i s t e r and i t h a s n ' t been t o C a b in e t .

QUESTION: The r e s o l u t i o n does[INDISTINCT] t h i n k f o r d i s c u s s i o n s

w i t h t h e Americans on e s t a b l i s h i n g [ I N D I S T I N C T ] v i s i t s . W i l l you be

doing t h a t ?

HAYDEN: Well we've g o t t o t a l k , t h e Prime M i n i s t e r t a l k s i n these

m a t t e r s . I t a l k on them once t h e government has made a d e c i s i o n . I

c a n ' t t a l k u n i l a t e r a l l y about how we are go in g t o approach t h i s . We

o n l y g o t t h a t a week ago t o d a y .

QUESTION: Mr Hayden, how would you d e s c r i b e th e New Zealand s i t u a t i o n

i n view o f what you were s a y in g b e f o r e , and i s i t as bad as you p r e d i c t ,

and what e f f e c t would t h a t have on A u s t r a l i a n / N e w Zealand t r a d e r e l a t i o n s ?

HAYDEN: Well i n t h e case o f c l o s e r economic r e l a t i o n s h i p and t h e r e ­

f o r e h o p e f u l l y we w i l l be a b le t o f a c i l i t a t e t h e exchange o f t r a d e i n a

way n o t o t h e r w i s e a v a i l a b l e , i f b a r r i e r s had as i n t h e p a s t , been i n the

way. That shou ld h e l p and s ho ul d h e l p t o b u i l d up s u r p l u s e s on t h e

e x t e r n a l cou nt and t h e r e f o r e r e s e r v e s . I c a n ' t say - I h a v e n ' t been

able t o focu s on t h e d e t a i l a t t h i s p o i n t , b u t any c o u n t r y t h a t has

o n l y one weeks r e s e r v e s a v a i l a b l e and then o n l y as a consequence o f

18 J u l y 1984 - 5 -

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18 July 1984 -6-

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f r e e z i n g c a p i t a l movements has a v e r y d i f f i c u l t economic s i t u a t i o n on

i t s hands. I f a t t h e same t i m e i t has an overseas debt o f t he o r d e r o f

$20,000 m i l l i o n whi ch I ' m t o l d i s t h e f i g u r e , i t o b v i o u s l y has a v er y

l a r g e s e r v i c i n g o b l i g a t i o n whi ch has t o be met f a i r l y r e g u l a r l y .

Now S i r R ob er t Muldoon went t o t h e IMF a l i t t l e w h i l e ago t o

make a draw down, I t h i n k on t h e g o l d h o l d i n g s a v a i l a b l e t o New

Z e a l a n d . I ' m not sur e what f o l l o w s f rom t h a t , but a l l I can say i s , and

I d o n ' t want t o s p e c u l a t e , a l l I can say i s t h a t i t ' s v e r y t i g h t and

d i n i n g w i t h Mr. Lange l a s t n i g h t i n W e l l i n g t o n , he made i t c l e a r t h i s i s h i s

maj or p r e o c c u p a t i o n , t h i s i s t h e area h e ' s goi ng t o move on f i r s t . He's

c e r t a i n l y e x p r e s s i n g t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n t o t r y t o combat t h i s s i t u a t i o n .

The f i n a l t h i n g , so t h a t t h e r e ' s n o , I hope no, u n d e s i r a b l e pressur es on

New Ze a l a n d , i s t h a t t h e money was r u s h i n g o u t because o f t he way Mr.

Muldoon was behavi ng i n t h e c l o s i n g weeks o f t h e campaign. Now t h a t the

d e v a l u a t i o n has t a k e n p l a c e , I woul d e x p e c t t h a t a l o t o f t he money would

go back i n and t h e A u s t r a l i a n d o l l a r would p r o b a b l y go down a b i t more.

QUESTION: Mr. H a y d e n , ^ d ^ y o u t h i n k t h a t w i t h Mr. Lange i n power now

t h a t A u s t r a l i a ' s r e l a t i o n s / b e b e t t e r w i t h New Zealand now t h a t S i r Robert

has gone?

HAYDEN: We've al ways been a b l e t o work v e r y w e l l w i t h New Zeal and,

r e g a r d l e s s o f what g o v e r n m e n t ' s i n power i n t h i s c o u n t r y o r what government' s

i n power i n t h a t c o u n t r y , and t h a t I can a s s e r t as a f a c t . I found

Warren Cooper, t h e i r o u t g o i n g f o r e i g n m i n i s t e r , v e r y h e l p f u l t o t h i s

a d m i n i s t r a t i o n inJ?na£ional forums and we responded s i m i l a r l y , b u t t h e r e

i s no do ubt t h a t t h e f r a t e r n a l a s s o c i a t i o n between t he two democr at i c

s o c i a l i s t p a r t i e s , t h e Labor p a r t y t h e r e and t h e one h e r e , does a l l o w us

t o have much e a s i e r c o m m u n i c a t i o n s , a much more r e l a x e d and open and

candi d exchange o f vi ews on m a t t e r s , and we do i t on t he b a s i s o f shared

s e n t i m e n t s and concerns and v a l u e s . I t h i n k t h a t we shoul d do v e r y w e l l

t o g e t h e r .

QUESTION: Mr. Hayden, do you t h i n k t h a t t h e r e ' s a s i g n i f i c a n t chance

t h a t t h e ANZUS T r e a t y m i g h t n o t s u r v i v e t h i s [INDISTINCT]

w i t h New Zealand o v e r n u c l e a r s h i p s ?

HAYDEN: I t may n o t s u r v i v e , b u t t h a t ' s i n t h e area o f s p e c u l a t i o n ,

and I ' m n o t i n t h e ar ea o f s p e c u l a t i o n . A l l I know i s t h a t t h e r e i s a

s i t u a t i o n a t t h e moment whi ch i s c a u s i n g t h e Americans concern and Mr.

S h u l t z s a i d l a s t n i g h t he f e l t a l i t t l e b e t t e r about t h e s i t u a t i o n a f t e r

t a l k i n g t o Mr. Lange and he hoped t h a t t i m e w i l l a l l o w f o r t he r e s o l u t i o n

o f t h e pr obl em. What s o r t o f r e s o l u t i o n e i t h e r he o r Mr. Lange have i n

mind I have no i dea a t a l l . And I s u s p e c t t h e y d o n ' t . A l l I can say,

— / 7

18 July 1984 -7-

however, is th a t Mr. Lange made i t clear th a t his Party's po licy stands,

that his P arty's p o lic y is not to terminate the ANZUS Treaty; they're

committed to the ANZUS Treaty as such. I t ' s nuclear-powered, nuclear-

priined vessels v i s i t i n g New Zealand which they object to , and very

largely they object to them because th e y're not part of any exercises,

m ilita r y exercises, but rather R & R. Now these are rather thorny

problems when they crop up and they've got to be sorted out, they've got

to be sorted out p u b lic ly .

QUESTION: W ill the Australian Government have a fa ll-b a c k position

ju s t in case [INDISTINCT]

HAYDEN: Well I'm unable to say any more than I'v e said today.

Obviously I'v e got to report to the Prime M iniste r and to my Cabinet

colleagues and I doubt th a t w e 'll be wanting to say any more fo r some

time. We'll want to see how the developments take place.

QUESTION: Can you now see a more rapid advancement on the declaration

of a nuclear-free South-West Pacific?

HAYDEN: Well I d id n 't get a chance to t a lk to Mr. Lange about th a t,

except th a t the New Zealanders, the Labor Party, is committed to th a t in

p rin c ip le . I d id n 't get a chance because a ll o f our time was taken up

with discussing the ANZUS issue and also economic matters and in a general

and fr ie n d ly way we talked about the transmission to government la s t

night at dinner.

QUESTION: Would an Australian Labor Government look at including

nuclear ships in th a t nuclear-free South-West Pacific?

HAYDEN: The proposition fo r the nuclear-free zone is tha t there

would be no storage s to c k p ilin g or te s tin g o f nuclear weapons in the

region, but th a t vessels and a i r c r a f t have the r ig h t o f navigation in the

open seas or in in te rn a tio n a l a ir space; th a t cannot be denied them;

that nations have a sovereign r ig h t to determine the conditions on which

vessels and a i r c r a f t use t h e ir f a c i l i t i e s , as we do at the-present time

in A ustra lia.

QUESTION: But you wouldn't think o f pushing i t beyond that?

HAYDEN: Well, i t ' s a provision th a t we're pu ttin g forward. I f we

went beyond tha t obviously we would be making a radical change to our

policy as i t was decided a t the recent federal Conference. I t was one

which I supported vigorously.

QUESTION: But was New Zealand previously . . .

HAYDEN: And i f you go in the d ire c tio n o f - oh, i t doesn't matter.

Too good a s to ry , th a t one.

. . . / 8

18 July 1984 -8-

QUESTION: Well, was New Zealand previously an obstacle to the

declaration

HAYDEN: No, not at a l l . I th in k they were more cautious than most

states, but S ir Robert Muldoon did support the proposition as one

deserving fu rth e r consideration a t/^ a s t P a c ific Forum Conference.

QUESTION: You said th a t there was not the same sort of support in

New Zealani^as^Were seemed to be in A u s tra lia . What do you put that

down to?

j u s t

HAYDEN: I have absolutely no idea. Γ/d o n 't know, but there is not

the same so rt o f , I do n't th in k I ' d use "support" so much as some other

word - what was i t , same s o rt o f in te n s ity of fe e lin g I think is the

word, or commitment. I have no idea, but i t is evident that i t is

acknowledged f a i r l y widely and the fa c t is i t was made an issue in

the la s t e le c tio n . And the Labor Party won government, therefore got

a mandate on many issues includ ing th is one, with a swing to i t . So

there are complexities in th is whole exercise.

QUESTION: Do you th in k th e re 's any j u s t i f i c a t i o n fo r the view of some

members of the West Australian ALP th a t the frequency of pattern of

American v i s i t s co n stitu te s de facto homeporting?

HAYDEN: No, you're try in g the same question you tr ie d before and

I d id n 't l i k e . Obviously, some members from Western A u stra lia feel a

concern about the r e g u la r ity and the extent o f American naval vessel

v is it s to t h e ir state and they are concerned th a t th is shouldn't become

so entrenched as to be de facto homeporting. I f they thought i t was

I'm sure th a t they would have proposed a much more p o sitive resolution.

I th in k one o f the things which is i r r i t a t i n g a l o t of people, c e rta in ly

West A u s tra lia n s , is the in s e n s itiv e , indeed even offensive , commentary

th a t some people in the United States and some people on some o f the

American ships have put in to w r itin g about the a c c e s s ib ility and the

accommodatability o f some o f the g i r l s in Western A u s tra lia , including

s c h o o lg irls . I must say I found i t ra th e r offensive when I heard one of

the delegates at federal Conference read i t ou t, and I'v e raised i t with

the Americans a couple o f times and made i t clear that th a t sort of

commentary being c irc u la te d is offensive to Australians and they ought

to cut i t out.

QUESTION: You made th a t comment to Mr. Shultz, did you?

HAYDEN: I mentioned i t to Mr. Shultz and I mentioned i t to some of

the naval people and some o f the Department o f State people who were here

on two separate occasions.

Ends.