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(generated from captions) will j have come up to our

expectations again. It's been

an absolute pleasure having you here. Me too, thank you. Thank

you so much for coming

on. Thank you. And thank you

Fiona for looking after the

store in Mike Bowers' absence.

Time left for a final

observation or prediction? I

don't think Penny is right.

What's most important for the

climate is what happens at

Copenhagen. But the Rudd

Government will get its

Emissions Trading Bill

through. Agreed. Very

interesting. If Barack Obama

does go to Copenhagen and the

coalition goat and enough

coalition members vote against

the ETS they'll look a bit

silly, because Copenhagen may

not yield a deal, but I think

the world is moving a lot of faster than some of the

sceptics think. A non-binding

political deal. A startling number came out this week

showing another 24,500 jobs

created last month. Within

that, one of the startling

figures was 5% unemployment

rate in the boom State of Western Australia. We're

starting to see labour

shortages and a resource boom

Within that one of the last pick-up in Western Australia.

things the government should be

doing is trying to stop or prop

up factories such as this

printing press or spending

billions of dollars hiring

tradesmen to build halls in

primary schools that we don't

really need. And that's the

program for the week. I will be

back with Offsiders at 10.30.

In the meantime here's Alan

Kohler and Inside Business .

Thanks, Barrie. G'day there. Welcome to the program. This

week, AMP stumps up to become a

fifth pillar but but will its

$12 billion pursuit of AXA

succeed and and what will

success mean in the light of

the regulatory upheaval about

to sit the sector? Well a talk

to the head of the

parliamentary inquiry into

financial services Bernie Ripoll. We'll also catch up

with Optus chief Paul

O'Sullivan about how he plans

to make the evident most of the

national broadband network. Live. This Program is Captioned

And in First Person the apple

of their eye, how the IT

industry is trying to catch in

on the phenomenon of iPhone

apps. Probably one of the

biggest benefits that the

iPhone has done for us has been

in the amount of attention it

pulls. Well the financial

services sector has endured a

pretty dreadful 18 months but

it burst into the lime light

this week if with a $12 billion

bid for Australian business AXA

Asia Pacific by its fierce

rivals over at AMP with the

collaboration of AXA's French

parent. While the French are parent. While the French

after the Asian assets AMP's

vision is to build an

Australian financial planning

and retail financial services

network that's bigger than the

big four banks before a major

regulatory overhaul hits next

year that's likely to change year that's likely to

the way super funds and wet

advisers do business. Sticking

to a time honoured script the

predators say the bid is

compelling while the prey says

it's not even close. Thank it's not even close. Thank you

to everyone for calling in at to everyone for calling in

short notice. This morning

we've announced a proposal to

acquire AXA AP... On Monday

morning the investment

community huddled around

speaker phone and trading

screens as AMP boss Craig Dunn

made his $12 billion pitch for

rival superannuation and

investment group AXA AP. The

offer to aaAP shareholders is a

mix of AMP script and

cash. AMP's ambitions are big,

they want to

they want to seize AXA's

Australia and New Zealand Australia and New

businesses to create a fifth

financial services pillar with

a sales army of 4,000 financial

advisers. That's more than

double anything any of the

banks can muster. It will take

AXA AMP knriened group to

number one. The main logic is

about scale. This is a smart

strategic move for AMP as they

prepare for a possibility of a

post commission world. I think

it's going to make clear

differences in the industry

about the big end of town, so

the big banks and AXA and the big banks and AXA and AMP

compared to the smaller

independent financial

advisers. Under the plan AXA's

Asian growth engine would be

hived off to its French parent

and 53% stakeholder AXA SA

whose ambitions in the region

have long been frustrated by an

exclus it clause held by its

Australian aub Sidary. With the

phone in over AMP largely let

the offer do the talking and

while the value rose from an

international $5.34 a share something was lost in the

translation of a bid Mr Dunn

described adds

compelling. Well, it's clearly

inadequate, you know. If I was

a French shareholder receiving

that bid I'd say

merde. Research director at EL

& C Ballu Ivor Ries says the

bid should be closer to

$6.50. The only way it can

progress is if AMP and AXA

increase the bid substantially.

Otherwise the directors are

going to have to reject it out

of hand and say it doesn't come

close to reflecting the

underlying value of the business. At perennial growth

we're an investor in AXA, we're

investing in AXA because we

really like the growth options

AXA has in the region. Lee Mickelburough says so far Australian investors aren't being offered enough

compensation for the loss of

AXA's Asian business. It's one AXA's Asian business. It's

of the few Australian companies

that we see that actually have

an option in the Asian region

that's real, that has strong

market positions particularly

in the Hong Kong market, that's

not a commodity company just exporting commodities to

Asia. Investors say AMP should

also pay more for the

Australian business. There's absolutely massive cost

synergies, at least $250

million, $300 million to be

taken out of this business on

the merger. This is a cost out

opportunity that merges once

every decade. There's probably

3,000, 4,000 jobs that just aren't needed when you merge

these two companies. Certainly

post the merger if it goes

ahead, we could validly ahead, we could

describe AMP, the AMP AXA

combination as one of big

combination as one of big

five. Richard Howes chief

executive of Challenger group's

life division says in the wealth management industry

bulking up is seen as a

sensible strategy ahead of

regulatory changes expected to

come out of the joint

parliamentary inquiry into

financial services headed by

Bernie Ripoll. ASIC's

submission to the Ripoll

inquiry basically calling for a

ban on financial advisers

accepting commissions, is

expected to clarify who's

actually advising and who's

selling a particular product

for profit. I think the focus

though on commissions is merely

the tip of the iceberg. The

high fees we pay in super are

largely driven by an enrapture

with the cult of equities. We

are an international outlier in

this regard, our retirees carry

too much exposure to equities

in retirement, seeking returns

which are largely offset by

higher fees. I actually wonder

whether the push to have these

mergers and grow in size is

more to develop a larger sales

force rather than anything else

where they can sell these

products, these managed funds. Financial adviser

Scott Keefer from small

Brisbane based company, A Clear

Direction, said talks are

coming regulatory changes are

going to kill off small

independents is just

scuttlebutt. It provides really strong opportunities for

smaller firms. And the future

should belong to those who

provide individual advice

rather than mass marketed

products. I think it's being

able to clearly show that we are independent from big financial institutions, that

we're not owned by them, that

we're not directed by them as

to what we should be or should

not be advising and that we can

actually provide advice to

clients that's in their best

interests. Well, the independent financial planner's

just about dead anyway. 99% of

financial planners in Australia

belong to a large dealer group

who tells them what they can

sell. And while that's unlikely

to change, much in the industry

will from how money is made to defining the differences

between advice and marketing.

From AMP's perspective, life

may well become simpler and

more profitable by bulking up

and swamping the market with

its sales force. The its sales force. The magnitude

of the changes both companies

like AMP as well as small

independent advisers are facing

will be made clearer this month

when Federal Parliament's joint

committee on financial services

tables its recommendations. I

spoke to the committee's chairs

an Labor MP Bernie Ripoll about

his work so far and his work so far and where

things are heading. Your

inquiry into the financial

services sector began after the

collapse of Storm Financial

Group in Queensland. Will that traumatic collapse and what

you've learnt in the inquiry

subsequently lead, do you

think, to radical recommendations for

change? Well, Alan, I'm not

sure if you'd call them radical

but certainly will result in

some change and look, whether

it comes through what the

inquiry process and the

recommendations we make or

whether it comes through

broader change that's happening

through government I suspect that everyone believe there's

will be change and of course

there will be. And will the

recommendations be unanimous or

is there some disagreement on

the committee? It really is up

to each of those individuals as

whether they want it to be a

unanimous report. My hope and

expectation is that it can be

and that it should be but that

really is up to each and every

individual person on the

committee to make up their own

mind and make decisions on that

matter for themselves. One of

the big issue, if not the

biggest issue s the question of

whether commissions for

financial advice ought to be

banned. So without pre-empting your recommendations, do you

think there will be a ban on

commissions some time in the

near future? Look, what happens

in the future is a matter for

government in term of making

any legislative changes. Obviously we'll be Obviously we'll be making

recommendations in that area

because it is part of our terms

of reference and it is an

important part. But I wouldn't

agree with you in the sense of

saying it's the most important

part. I actually think that

quality of advice really has

turned out to be the most

important part. Certainly the important part. Certainly

way it's paid for and the link

between product manufacturers

and sales people and advisers

and ultimately the clients are

exceptionally important how the

client pays for those services

and products but in the end the

quality of advice is what's

critical, not so much how much

you pay for that advice. Have

you formed a view during the

inquiry about the standard of

education and questions of

licensing and how the

deficiencies might be causing a

problem? Absolutely. The issue of education has come up

through a range of submissions

and through public consultation

with the sector and I think

everyone agrees that we need to

raise the bar, we need to raise the bar, we need to raise

the standard in terms of

educational level of advisors

and the way pruck - products

are sold, the understanding of

products and impact of advice.

Particularly if we look at

areas of margin lending and

gearing and leverage, the

impact that can have on

individuals. So certainly my

view is and has been throughout

this inquiry that educational

standards are very important

and that perhaps the RG 146

current standard that exists is

perhaps too low a bar. Maybe

not for entry level but too low

I understand it a bar as a standard In fact as

I understand it the Financial

Planning Association is

debating whether to make

tertiary level education, that

is to say a degree, the minimum standard for entry into

financial planning. Would you

encourage them to proceed with

that? Look, I'd certainly

encourage the FPA to continue

down its path. I think they're

doing a very good job and I

think it's important that they,

as a representative of the

sector, lift the standard and

lift the bar. It's not really

for me to judge whether that is

the appropriate standard. I

think though there has been

over a period of time an

evolutionary change whereby

advisers and professionals

working within the sector

actually have got university

degrees or are highly qualified. Unfortunately it's

not required by law and

unfortunately it's also a case

that's not the general

consensus across the sector.

But I think that's where we're

moving to in a natural sense

and I think that's where we

will be in the coming

decade. Did you get a sense

listening to the victims of

Storm as you did during the

inquiry, that they thought that

the fact that Storm had an

Australian financial services

licence meant that the

authorities actually approved

of their model? Look, I think

sit a problem and I think we

ought to look more closely at

how we deal with that so people

better understand the mere fact

of holding an AFSL doesn't mean

that the model or the advice

they give is approved as well

or for that matter that it's

appropriate to everybody. Do

you think in fact the answer

might lie in restricting the might lie in restricting

use of the term financial

planner or financial adviser so

that anyone who's getting sales

commissions can't actually call

themselves that and they have

to call themselves something

else, like a dealer or a

broker? It's certainly been

raised with us through

submissions and consultations.

It's an issue for many people

but I'd also remind you that

the term or the use of the term

at accountant is not regulated

either and a whole range of either and a whole range

terms that aren't regulated.

It's something we're looking

at. I think the important

question here is not so much

what you call yourself, because

that in itself can be quite

confusing, but on the quality

of advice you provide, on the

advice that you're entitled to

provide and to ensure it's

appropriate and tailored

particular person you're individualally for that individualally for

advising. That's the key here

rather than what somebody calls

side what people call themselves. Yes, but leaving a

themselves there is a lot of

talk about the need to divide

sales from advice clearly and

in a regulatory sense, do you

agree with that? I agree that certainly that's been the

subject of a lot of subject of a lot of discussion

and I agree that we've had many

submissions on it. Look, at

this point in time we will be

making recommendations in that

area and taking full scope of

everything that's been put to

us and the deliberations of the

committee. But obviously I'm

not in a position where I can

say to people today what that

decision is. That will be decision is. That will be for

23 November when we actually

make the report public. Thanks

for joining us, Bernie

Ripoll. Thank you very

much. And now with the latest

from Wall Street and all the

market news it's over to Kate

Tozer. Thanks, Alan. US shares

powered ahead on Friday as

investors basked in the

confidence shown by some of the

major retailers heading into

the peak holiday trading

season. The major indices were

almost 1% higher as Disney

spruiked a better than expected

profit and retailers ab Crombie

& Fitch and JC Penny raised

forecasts. A report showing

America's trade deficit widened

to $36.5 billion. Demand for

oil and cars in September

swamped a 5th straight increase

in exports. Germany and France

reported further growth in the

third quarter on Friday and

Italy's economy started to grow

lifting the euro zone and the

wider European Union out of

recession. Over the weekend US

shares rose 2%, London's FTSE

hit a 14-month high. Stocks in

Europe were stronger and there

were gains across most local

market sectors as Tom Elliot explains. The market did

indeed have a good run this

week. Fueled near the start by

the bid for AXA Australia by a

combination of AMP and AXA SA,

the French parents. Now the bid

is cash and scribt. Predictably

it set AXA shares alight. AMP shares were quite strong during

the week. People think AMP

itself could be the target of itself could be the target

one of the big four banks. one of the big four banks. Most

firms in the wealth industry

management industry were

affected. Turning to IPOs and

the float of retailer Kathmandu

was in stark contrast on Friday

to that of Myer. Myer of course

its shares sank on the first

day of trading but Kathmandu,

the issue price was set low at

$1.70. Shares closed their

first day at $1.76. A nice stag profit there for those lucky

enough to get some. October's

unemployment numbers came out.

They were surprisingly strong.

Unemployment steady at 5.8% but

total jobs up 24,000. This sent

the share price of Seek up

initially on the news although

the stock did fade a bit

towards the end of the week.

The gold price hit a record

ever high, $11,22 US an ounce.

This did spark a bit of a rise

in major gold producers such as

Lihir, St Barbara and Newcrest

because of course they have al-Ngo not to record level ts

because of course they have to

contend with the equally strong

Australian dollar. Orica had a very good full year profit

result. Its shares were up

strongly during the week. Of

course Orica is contemplating a

demerger at the moment and some

people think that once that's

done some part of Orica could

become takeover targets

themselves. Winner of the week,

was Virgin Blue up 16% after a

potential merger was announced

between European between European carrier,

British Airways an ibeern

airways. Loser of the week was

Babcock and Brown

Infrastructure, down 5% on

Monday before being suspended

ahead of the vote on a deal

crucial to its future. This

week the nation's number 2

telco, Optus, has continued

with its growth spurt posting a

second half increase in profits

of 19% to $291 million, largely

driven by its mobile business

and an aggressive push into

iPhone sales. It's comforting

news for the company and its Singapore-based controlling

shareholder Singtel as the

battle heats up for consolidation and scale consolidation and scale ahead

of the massive changes that are

likely to be delivered by the national broadband network

rollout. I spoke to Paul

O'Sullivan about the challenges

ahead. There's been a lot of

speculation for quite a while

now that Singtel is either

going to sell Optus or float it

and I noticed it was raised

this week with the CEO of

Singtel and I don't know that

it was actually a denial. It

was a no decision has been made

yet. So is it being

considered? Well, Alan, it's

really flattering when you've

got strong momentum and people

are instantly speculating that

you should be taking an IPO to

market. We were really clear at

the result session, we made no

decision to do an IPO of the

Australian business. Actually

we do have a significant

Australian shareholding base in

operating business in the the group and we're the largest

group. We're listed on the ASX

so there is an opportunity

already for Australians to

participate in the success of

Optus and indeed of

Singtel. But there you go

again, no decision has been

made. I mean of course there's

no decision been made because

if you had made a decision if you had made a decision you

would have had to have

announced it? I think the

results show you we're busy running and growing our

business here and making sure

it's a success and really an

IPO from my point of view

really is a side issue. It's

interesting because my

observation would be that since

Singtel bought Optus in Singtel bought Optus in 2001,

at the time in 2001 you might

have expected given the size of

Singtel for the group then to

really take Telstra on at the point, really invest point, really invest in

Australia and the sense you get

that I've had since that time

is that Singtel 's been just an

investor really and in fact

some of the infrastructure was

closed down and the point this

year when Singtel could have

invested in the fibre to the

node, it didn't. Oh actually,

that couldn't be more incorrect

perception of what's really

happened. Since we were happened. Since we were taken

into the Singtel group in 2001

we've actually invested our

over $1 billion a year, there's

over $7 billion in the last over $7 billion in the last 7

years in new infrastructure and

new network in Australia. We're

very significant investor. We

were one of the few companies

to actually respond to the

Government's fibre to the node

tender and we made a legal and

contractual commitment to

invest in the NBN. So the

perception or the idea nah you

didn't end up building the FTTN

was not because you didn't want

to but because it was knocked

back. I mean was Singtel

disappointed in that? Well the

FTTN wasn't knocked back. What we had was the we had was the Government

decided to build a different

network. Having decided or

announced that none of the bids

were up to scratch. But it's a

completely different approach

and network which we welcome by

the way because we think actually it's the right network to Australia. We think to Australia. We think the

benefits to Australians from

the new fibre to the home

network are really extensive

and it's actually, if anything,

one of the messages I would be

wanting to push is I think we

need to get on with it. We need

to stop the delay. We need to

build this network now because

of what it can offer

Australia. Do you think lit be viable? Absolutely lit be

viable. Is it that good that

Singtel Optus is going to

invest in it by selling assets

in return for shares in the

NBN? We've already been one of

the few parties in Australia

and indeed unlike our major

competitor we've been willing

to commit to investing in an

NBN. We did that last year in

the FTTN program. We did it

more recently in terms of our public commitment on this

issue. We've also been quite

public about the economics of

this. We've done a detailed

costing and demand modelling

exercise on the NBN anden we've

been one of the few parties to

make this public and show how

this can make a good

invest. How will it change the

future of Optus? Clearly it's

going to change life for

Telstra. Optus from the

beginning its identity has been

as the main competitor to

Telstra, then it would tend to

imply that that's going to tend

to change Optus's identity as

well? You're quite right. Wee

were born in competition and

we've built our business by

always offering two thing. One

is a higher level of service

than exists in the market today

and second of all, finding

Weiping s to make the

technology nor available and

accessible to customers. We've

not been able to compete right

across the market. We're strong

in mobile, we're strong in

corporate and data voice and

data networks, we're strong in

satellite, but the residential

home market has largely been

closed to us because of the

problems you see in that the

government is now trying to

tackle around market structure.

So throwing open that $8

billion market to Optus and

letting us compete would be a

huge step forward not only for

us but I'd argue for all Australians because we can

drive the benefits through

competition in that market that

we've done in the others. So

how are you going to use the

NBN? How do you see the interaction between your

business and the NBN taking

place? The NBN is a terrific

opportunity, not only for us

but for all the players but for all the players and

Telecoms to finally get a

chance to compete on a level

playing field in the

residential home market. The

high band width that goes high band width that goes into homes will offer a whole range of services and it will also

mean that we can converge in

what you do to your home, let's

say how you store your photos

what you do with your music

with what you do on your mobile

device. So we see a lot of synergies between our mobile

business and the home

business . Of coursely stra is

in a built bit of a spot with

the legislation that is

requiring structural separation

if it wants to get mobile spectrum in the future and everyone's waiting to see what

they decide and the

shareholders are very upsit

about it. How would you feel if

the Government passed - came

out with some legislation that

said Optus has to structurally

separate or you won't have separate or you won't have a

future in mobiles? Let's be

really clear about this. I

think there's a lot of

misunderstanding of this issue.

You know, Telstra's

relationship to its fixed

assets, fixed line assets is

not the same as a normal

company. The federal High Court

last year in a landmark

judgment confirmed and made in

very clear. When Telstra was

created in 1992 under the tele

communications act, that act

had as its core the creation of

competition in tele

communications. So when it gave the assets of the fixed

network, which had been network, which had been paid

for by the Australian public,

the taxpayer, to Telstra, it

gave them on the understanding

from day one that Telstra would

be required to make those

assets available to other

players, to other competitors.

So it doesn't have the same

relationship with its assets relationship with its assets as

say Qantas and its jets. It's

quite a different

relationship. But it does make

it available. I mean your

broadband business is based on

buying access from Telstra?

There's a fundamental conflict

of interest, Alan, between

owning the network and

providing access to your

competitors and at the same

time competing with those

competors. Are you unhappy with your business that you've got

in that business? We would be

very unhappy and publicly

unhappy for many years with unhappy for many years with the

frustrations that Telstra is

nationally insented to put in

the way of competors. For

example, we had to stop sell

farg lengthy period of time to

apartment blocks because

regulation ace Loued Telstra to

create up to a 48 hour hiatus

when and customers were left

off the air because they could disconnect the line and not

have to hand over to us in a timely fashion. This is the

sort of problems you get with a

conflict of interest and the

act in 1992 didn't really think

ahead enough of these issues

which is why we need to get the

reform legislation and the

changes in place now. So what

would you do if you were David

Thodey now? Well I'm not David

Thodey but I think what we can

all say is first of all it's

critical we pass the reform

legislation in this sitting of

parliament which will ensure

that it's very clear to Telstra

and its board that it cannot

hang on to the monopoly it's

had in services to the home but

any gaming to hang on to 60%

margins is over and it's time

to move forward thasmt will

unleash Telstra's energy and

effort but then working out how

to move forward and I'm quite

confident that in that world

they will realise, and they

will see sense, will see sense, that

participating in the NBN and

helping Australia build a

future and realise the future and realise the benefits

of the NBN is the best way to

go. Thanks for joining us, Paul

O'Sullivan. Thank you, Alan.

IPhone applications are a

phenomenon but many are free

and making money out of them and making money out of them is

not always easy. One Adelaide

company is using apps to raise

its profile and generate some

cash while it waits for the

main IT geam, the national

broadband network, to roll out.

The The Apple app store model

is quite unique in regards it

allows us to reach a global

audience at a relatively low

cost. This is quite cost. This is quite attractive

to us and it means that a

microtransaction of $1 or even

$3 over time with the level of

audience of 40 plus million

iPod touch users gives us

access to a pretty big audience. Enabled Solutions is

turning out products that the

global audience seems to global audience seems to like.

Grant Hull's company re cently

launched its 11th iPhone app

and it's working on more. The most downloaded application

we've had, the newton's cradle application, and this

application had been rated at

number 1 across the globe for

about a 2-week period and it

reached number 2 in the

American iTunes store. We've

also seen similar success with

a follow on application called

the amazing liquid pack that

spent some number 2 in the UK.

The iPhone is still very small% percentage of our business percentage of our business in

regards to its turnover. A regards to its turnover. A lot

of the success we've had has

been within the free aspects.

So We haven't made a lot of

money from actual purchases of

iPhone apps. We've ensured

that we make a certain

percentage of the work that we

do a fee for service. So the

fee for service work is

probably where we make most of

our money from the iPhone applications but it would

probably still make up around

about currently 15% of our

turnover with most of the

turnover still remaining in our

traditional areas which is web

and new media productions.

Probably one of the Probably one of the biggest

benefits that the iPhone has

done for us has been in the

amount of attention that it

pulls. As part of a dell

graition to Korea in children's

content development and also

just more recently in New

Zealand where we presented as

part of the conference on the

national broadband network

rollout and we presented on

some innovative uses of

broadband. One of those

innovations would combine the

NBN and touch technology to

make science more appealing to

children who are at home in the

IT age. One, two, three,

and... Enabled Solutions is and... Enabled Solutions IT age. One, two, three,

working with science educator,

That science Gang on a program

called Awesome Science on a

touch screen program to take it

into schools. It's very

important for Enable to have access to this high quality

broadband to be able to make

the initiatives like Awesome

Science really work. If we're

going to be producing video at

the quality that they

the quality that they are

acustomed to seeing on the

television then it's important

for us to have that band width

to push out that technology,

that vision out into schools. Grant Hull believes the 10-year-old company, which

he runs with his brother Craig,

is well positioned to

capitalise on the digital

age. We've got 7 people at

Enable working for us at this

point in time and we've seen

the turnover increase quite

substantially. We've just

pushing the 500,000 mark as we

speak and I think it should

amount to more within this

financial term. So it's been quite a rabbit period of growth

and I think a lot of that has

been out of adding this

multidisciplined team where we

can actually pull in quite a number of work from different

areas. I think we see growth in

not so much the size of company

but in the product lines that

we're developing. So, for

instance, growth into education

and growth - continued growth

into touch screen environments

and pushing on and becoming

experts and leaders in those

fields. We'll have to have an

inside business arksz inside business arksz pp.

That's the end of the program.

Transcripts, video and the

vodcast of all today's stories

will be available on our

website later on. Thanks for

your company, see you next week

and now it's back to Barrie

. Thank you. Welcome to

Offsiders. Two extraordinary

events in world sports

yesterday. Tiger Woods had a

bad day and New Zealand

qualified for the World Cup,

we're not talking the All

Blacks but the All Whites. New

Zealand beat Bahrain last night

to take their place in the to take their place in

World Cup in South Africa. A

similar upset might be on the

cards at Kingston Heath as

Tiger Woods go himself into

trouble. He goes in sharing the

tleed with two Australians.

A little bit of club head

speed in that throw too. It's

over in the crowd. Hee got the

daily double, he's put the club