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Government to film Malaysia flight as warning

Melbourne. And does a lack will just be a pipe dream? Tonight the Government's bold experiment with
Australia's asylum-seeker policy is asylum-seeker policy is under way. Up to 19 children are among
55 people who've arrived on a boat seeking asylum in Australia only to be told they're going to be
flown to Malaysia instead. The Government will film their journey and put it on the Internet as a
warning to other. Political correspondent Tom Iggulden reports. Fleeing their home countries ,
these 55 asylum seekers have sailed into an Australian political storm.

The message will be very clear - do not make the dangerous boat journey and Australia and do not
let your children make the dangerous boat journey to Australia.

They want to send a message not just to the people smugglers but to the electorate. They'll be sent
to Malaysia as soon as Sunday. The Government says Government says none will be transferred - none
will be spared transfer.

If you come to Australia by boat, even if you are a minor or claiming to be a minor, you can work
on the basis you'll be returned to Malaysia.

The Government's created their on catch 22 of policy here. If they create one exemption that will
give licence licence to the people smugglers to mark that to children but if they send vulnerable
children to Malaysia thal rebe in an even more vulnerable situation.

The to make sure its message is being received overseas.

There's no starker or more effective way to do that than than film the transfer and operation with
people's privacy and dignity being respected and that will be put on YouTube and all the relevant
website we know asylum seekers and others would be watching from Indonesia and elsewhere.

The Government has a major message credibility problem here which YouTube can't solve.

The Greens say Chris Bowen's avoiding his duties as legal guardian to act in the best interests of
the 14 children who've come with our family.

There are some very, very serious concerns what will happen to these children on board the boat
that arrived today.

The Government can't protect the human rights of anyone sent to Malaysia absolutely, most
particularly children and uncompanied minors. The UNHCR knows that. That's why they haven't off on
this arrangement.

Australian borders aren't just under assault by asylum seekers according to the retail industry.
They say cheap foreign products bought on the Internet are undermining local shops struggling to
attract customers. The Government promiseded to look into putting GST on such purchases and today
reported back with a clear message - not our problem. A draft Productivity Commission report says
mainstream business need to lift their game.

There can be a tendency for things are going bad to say this is a taxpayer challenge and when
things are good it's managerial genius. We say retail needs to understand the world world is
changing and trying to turn back the tide and ignore the Internet is foolish business practice.

The Government says most Internet sales are made locally not over seas and it says competition's

Many of the large Australian retailers said they tried the Internet a few years ago and got their
fingers burnt and some of the most famous household Australian names said the Internet would never
work. They're wrong.

Perhaps by broadband network was switched on today in the first city location, Melbourne suburb of

A third of small businesses in Australia don't have a web presence. They need

Fake bomb 'an elaborate extortion attempt'

Reporter: Ben Worsley

Madeleine Pulver, 18, has survived shaken but unhurt after having what turned out to be a fake bomb
around her neck for 10 hours.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: NSW Police are calling it an elaborate extortion attempt and a case unlike
one they've never seen before.

18-year-old Madeleine Pulver was ambushed in a family home in Sydney by a masked man.

He attached what appeared to be an explosive device around her neck.

But after a tense 10 hours, the device was found to be a fake.

Here's ABC reporter Ben Worsley.

BEN WORSLEY, REPORTER: Madeleine Pulver has been through an experience that's almost impossible to
fathom. Her family is reeling, but they're very relieved and very grateful.

BILL PULVER, FATHER: We particularly want to thank all of the people last night that did an
extraordinary job helping our beautiful daughter.

BEN WORSLEY: For 10 hours, the 18-year-old sat motionless as police worked to remove what they
thought was a bomb attached to her body.

The teenager says a man wearing a balaclava burst into her family home around 2 pm yesterday. When
police arrived, they found a device the size of a shoe box around her neck. Police finally removed
the device and she was taken to hospital shaken, but OK.

BILL PULVER: We as parents are extraordinarily proud of Maddy. I think she has woken up this
morning in pretty good spirits. She's a little tired and a little sore from holding this damn
device in place for about 10 hours, but she is now, as we are, eager for her to get on with her

BEN WORSLEY: Police confirm the device was a fake, but elaborate enough to closely resemble an
explosive. Their only clue about the culprit is the note he left behind.

LUKE MOORE, NSW POLICE: There was a letter attached to this device, or a note attached to this
device that did make certain demands. We are treating this as an attempted extortion.

BEN WORSLEY: Police won't say if Madeleine Pulver's wealthy father was the target. They'll
interview her later this week and insist she's not under suspicion in any way.

LUKE MOORE: Madeleine is the victim of this offence.

BEN WORSLEY: One who's incredibly thankful to those who helped, especially the young policewoman
who sat with her for the first two hours of the ordeal.

Her dad says all she wants is for life to be normal again.

Ben Worsley, Lateline.

High-speed rail network back in consideration

Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has released the first stage of a $20 million study
into building a high-speed rail network along the east coast from Melbourne to Brisbane.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The Federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, has released the first
stage of a $20 million study into building a high-speed rail network along the east coast.

The report estimates that in 25 years' time more than 50 million passengers could be using a
network linking Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and Brisbane.

Under the proposal, a train from Melbourne to Sydney or Sydney to Brisbane could take just three
hours, as Steve Cannane reports.

STEVE CANNANE, REPORTER: Creating a very fast rail network has been a very slow process. First
proposed in 1984, high-speed rail now has a new blueprint and a new advocate.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, TRANSPORT MINISTER: There is no doubt that this would make an enormous difference
to the way that the Australian economy functions, to the way that our productivity occurs, to the
way that we reduce our climate change emissions and to the way that our regions develop.

STEVE CANNANE: According to the interim report, a trip between Melbourne and Sydney could take less
than three hours and cost between $99 and $197.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: There's a potential for roughly half of the projected air travel between Sydney
and Melbourne, for example, to go by rail.

STEVE CANNANE: The first country to embrace high-speed rail was Japan in 1964. Now around a dozen
other countries including France, Italy and China have trains that travel from 200 to 300
kilometres per hour.

BRENDAN LYON, INFRASTRUCTURE PARTNERSHIPS AUSTRALIA: There is a lot of questions that have been
asked in the community over time about why countries like Morocco, Spain and so on are able to get
on and deliver high-speed rail, but it's eluded us here in Australia. The reason really is because
it is complex and it is costly.

STEVE CANNANE: The report estimates a high-speed rail network would cost between $61 and $108
billion to build.

But despite the cost, former deputy prime minister and train enthusiast Tim Fischer says Australia
can't afford not to build it.

TIM FISCHER, FORMER DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: It's even more costly to build 10 12-lane highways to
carry traffic if we do not build high-speed rail on this particular corridor of Melbourne,
Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane.

I might add no-one's been able to show me a map of where the second Sydney airport is going to be
located. The delays at Mascot are piling up year on year. The high-speed rail offers a real
alternative to the saga of the second Sydney airport.

STEVE CANNANE: And Anthony Albanese does concede it's complicated.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You have to begin with a 200-metre wide corridor for high-speed rail. That
presents environmental challenges.

STEVE CANNANE: And if the Government goes ahead with the project, the Opposition doesn't trust it
to deliver.

JULIE BISHOP, ACTING OPPOSITION LEADER: The idea of a fast train is very appealing, but it will
come down to a question of cost, and this government can't be trusted to implement complex reforms.

STEVE CANNANE: But Tim Fischer says this is Australia's last chance.

TIM FISCHER: It's make-or-break time for high-speed rail for Australia. This time around, we have
this last window of opportunity to carefully consider phase one report, digest that; phase two
report, when it comes, because of suburban sprawl, the danger is these corridors will be lost
forever sooner rather than later.

STEVE CANNANE: The Government says it will take another 12 months to conduct the next stage of the

Steve Cannane, Lateline.

Climate Department threat 'typical': Gillard

Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the Liberals are in the habit of criticising or threatening any
group of scientists, economists or public servants who disagree with them.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Here is tonight's guest to discuss a broad range of issues, including the
asylum seeker swap with Malaysia, fast trains, relations with the Murdoch empire and the reform of
the aged care sector.

I was joined late this afternoon by the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard. She was in Melbourne.

Prime Minister, thanks for joining us.


TONY JONES: Do you think Australian voters will by and large applaud images of asylum seekers being
forcibly removed to Malaysia?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, what this is about is smashing the people smugglers' business model. I don't
think Australians want to see people risking their lives on a dangerous journey. They certainly
don't want to see a repeat of the kind of scenes we saw at Christmas Island around Christmas time
when asylum seekers drowned in the water.

TONY JONES: It's about - Prime Minister, it's about politics too, isn't it? I mean, surely you
wouldn't disagree with the proposition that you're trying to neutralise a hot political issue?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, what I'm trying to do is send the people smugglers the strongest possible
message that they cannot say to people, "Jump on a boat, pay me some money and I'll take you to
Australia and your claim will be processed there."

What I'm trying to do is stop this evil trade because I don't want to see people being preyed on
and I don't want to see them risking their lives in a boat. I also do want to bring more genuine
refugees to this country, and through the arrangement we've entered into with Malaysia, we will
bring 4,000 people who have been waiting in Malaysia for an opportunity to start a new life in a
new land.

TONY JONES: If these people are taken away in handcuffs, in distress, resisting onto that aircraft,
do you think Australians will be happy at those kind of scenes?

JULIA GILLARD: Well, look, how individual people feel about any footage is a question for them,
Tony, but my responsibility as Prime Minister is to do what I can to stop people smugglers preying
on people, preying on their misery, taking their money and getting them to risk their lives at sea.
What this is about is smashing the people smugglers' business model.

TONY JONES: If some of these people are potentially vulnerable - which is the great fear of the
UNHCR: that they'll be vulnerable in Malaysia - how will you be able to assess that within such a
short period of time, 72 hours?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, on the position of the UNHCR, what we've always said is that the UNHCR has
been involved in the discussions which led to this arrangement with Malaysia and they will be
involved in the implementation.

And what we've said consistently is that there will be no blanket exemptions. There are no blanket
exemptions. There will be pre-transfer assessments and they will be undertaken properly by the
relevant officials.

TONY JONES: Are there any children in this group? If so, how many and are any of them

JULIA GILLARD: The Minister for Immigration will deal with all of the details here. Tony, my
understanding is that there are some children in the group. Obviously officials will need to work
through to ascertain who's who on the boat and also which are family groups and who is accompanied.

TONY JONES: Let's look at what happens briefly when they get to Malaysia. Under the deal, Australia
will be paying to house and feed these people, along with their health care and the education of
their children. Is that time-limited?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, we've released all of the figures and the commitments here. When the Minister
for Immigration and I first announced this package, we said $76 million would be devoted over the
Government's budget period, that is the four-year of the forward estimates, to making the necessary
arrangements for the transfer to Malaysia, so that's the costs of the transfer and of providing
some support for the people who have been transferred.

Then the balance of almost $300 million is the costs associated with taking 4,000 genuine refugees
from Malaysia and resettling them here. As you would know, Tony, we have a refugee resettlement

We're a generous nation, we take people in need from around the world. That does have costs, and if
you're going to take 4,000 more, then you need to make appropriate provisions for those costs.

TONY JONES: I don't mean to interrupt you. I mean, we know that the people who come here will be
taken care of; the big question is what happens to the people sent to Malaysia.

Evidently their health care and the education of their children is part of the arrangement. And I'm
asking how long for? Is there a time limit? Will it be one year, two years, 10 years?

JULIA GILLARD: Well for the persons who are taken to Malaysia, they will then be able to have their
claims processed by UNHCR and they will have some services provided to them by the International
Organisation of Migration.

The cost of us supporting all of this is the $76 million that I've referred to. There are around
90,000 asylum seekers in Malaysia and these people returned will take their place alongside those
90,000 asylum seekers.

Their claims will be processed. If they're genuine refugees, then, alongside the other genuine
refugees in Malaysia, they will wait for a resettlement opportunity. If they are not genuine
refugees, then arrangements will be made to return them to their country of origin.

TONY JONES: So very briefly, just on that point: they'll be cut loose once they're processed by the
UNHCR from Australian responsibility?

JULIA GILLARD: No, no - no, that's not what I've said, Tony, and that's not right. We have said we
will provide some continuing support through UNHCR and IOM for persons transferred, so no, Tony,
there's not a time limit on that, but what I was trying to explain to you was what would happen to
the people in Malaysia so they would be processed by UNHCR.

They may not be refugees, in which case they would be returned to their country of origin. If they
are genuine refugees, then alongside the 90,000 other asylum seekers and refugees in Malaysia,
they'd take their place looking for a resettlement opportunity.

TONY JONES: Alright, let's move on to other issues. Australia's heading for a demographic and
budgetary crisis as the baby boomers retire from the workforce, and now the aged care industry is
saying you need to shift to a user pays model. Do you agree with that?

JULIA GILLARD: Well, Tony, I spoke on these matters a bit earlier today and I confirmed that on
Monday we will release the Productivity Commission report on caring for older Australians.

The point I made today is that we really have two generations of older Australians. We have people
who are retired now, living longer, many of them lived through the days of World War II, and they
are a generation with certain outlooks and attributes.

Then we have the baby boomers moving into retirement phase, and we know because they changed what
it meant to be young and they've changed what it's meant to be a family and adult relationships,
they've had a big impact on society and its views, that they will change what it means to be an
older Australian.

And across each of these demographic groups, I view older Australians as an asset to be valued, but
we need to make sure that as a nation we are supporting them, providing security, making sure
no-one gets left behind and also providing them with more choice and control over their lives as
older Australians than perhaps the system has provided them in the past. And we do need to make
sure that the financing is fair and sustained.

TONY JONES: Alright.

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, when we announced the Productivity Commission report ...

TONY JONES: Can I just ask you about the financing issue, because ...


TONY JONES: ... just to get to the point the aged care industry is talking about? Are we likely to
see a system where old people are forced to commit equity currently held in their family homes to
pay for their care?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, what you're going to see is precisely this: the final Productivity Commission
report you'll see on Monday. You will not see a government policy response at that time.

We will release the final Productivity Commission report, and I suspect that there will then be and
there should be and I will be encouraging a national debate on aging and caring for older

Out of that debate the Government will appropriately respond, so we will work through the minister.
Mark Butler will be out there strongly engaged and consulting.

TONY JONES: OK, but can we rule out for example certain things, like the ...

JULIA GILLARD: Oh, Tony, I'm not going to play rule in, rule out games against a Productivity
Commission report that hasn't been released yet.

TONY JONES: Well there has been reporting, for example, about the use of reverse mortgages to help
pay for things like this which eat up the equity in people's houses.

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, you can ...

TONY JONES: I mean, that's something you could rule out now. If there's going to be debate about
it, let's start the debate now.

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, I'm not playing a rule-in, rule-out game against a Productivity Commission
report that hasn't been released yet. That report will be released on Monday in its final form.

TONY JONES: Joe Hockey last night threatened to axe the Department of Climate Change if he won
government because it had been providing, he says, false data on the cost of the Coalition's direct
action policy. What would happen if he carried out that threat?

JULIA GILLARD: Well, isn't this what we've come to expect from the Opposition? If you don't like
what scientists say, then get in there and criticise the scientists.

If you don't like what Australian economists say, then get out there and criticise Australian

Now, when professional public servants say things that the Opposition doesn't like, they threaten
their jobs.

What - where this leaves the Liberal Party is that their policy proposition for the Australian
people is, "We're going to have a big slush fund. We, the Liberal Party, are going to have a big
slush fund, we're going to give that big slush fund to polluters and we're not even going to have
any professional public servants to provided advice about how to do this."

Presumably, Tony Abbott's just going to sit down with Joe Hockey and a big bucket of money and
chuck it wherever they think they can.

TONY JONES: But why is the Department of Climate Change being used to model the costs of a
Coalition policy? I mean, that sounds like you're putting public servants in the middle of a fierce
public policy debate.

JULIA GILLARD: I believe the Australian people are entitled to information about policy
propositions in the national debate. I think that's a good thing. I think they should be able to
look at the Government's policy and plans and see how it adds up and stacks up, see what the
Treasury modelling is, see what it means for them.

They're also entitled to see what it is that the Opposition is saying to the Australian people and
the costs of that.

TONY JONES: You've promised to close down the dirty coal-fired power generator in Victoria's
Latrobe Valley.

Mr Hockey says he might actually support you on this if you replace the coal-fired power generator
with a gas generator, which of course would be logical because you could actually use the same
location where there's a coal-fired power generator to put a cleaner one.

The people working there would then have jobs to replace the jobs they would likely lose. So why
not seek bipartisanship on this issue and go down that path?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, I don't like to correct you, but you've misconstrued the Government's policy.

What the Government has said is that we will have a tender process where we will say to coal-fired
power stations, to the people who generate energy with the most emissions, "Come forward and offer
a contract for closure."

We will go through a tender process and then we will select what is the best value for money to
reduce emissions, and of course any closure process would have to happen over a period of time so
that we had energy security and certainty and we would have a structural adjustment process for any
affected region.

So we haven't picked a power station; that isn't right. Now I've said - precisely those words that
I've just said to you, I've said that to concerned power workers in the Latrobe Valley who work at
Hazelwood and I'll say it to anybody who asks me about our policy.

The problem with talking to the Opposition about all of this is you'd need, Tony, to tell me who I
should speak to. Should I speak to Andrew Robb, who says that they want to close a power station
and in fact the Government's stolen their policy; or should I speak to Tony Abbott, who went down
to the Latrobe Valley and promised people that the Coalition wouldn't close any power stations?

Who would you suggest I speak to, Tony, given that they've got diametrically different views,
pursuing, as they do, a different message for different audiences. They never say the same thing
twice, they just say what they think people want to hear and then hope they don't get caught out on
the contradictions.

TONY JONES: We've got a few other issues to deal with. On the issue of high-speed rail, after the
BER and NBN, does your government really have the energy to try to create another giant
infrastructure project in Australia that could cost up to $100 billion, according to some

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, let's just be clear about what we've done. Australians, I think, have talked
and thought about high-speed rail for a long period of time. I think many Australians over cups of
coffee and maybe a few drinks as well have talked about, "Wouldn't it be good to have high-speed
rail and we could have the trains run here and the trains run there."

Well, we have published a document which informs that national conversation. I think it helps get a
sense of perspective into that national conversation about the costs of this, and, yes, there are
very considerable costs.

So the information is out there. The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure has released this
information. We think that as people consider the merits and opportunities of high-speed rail, they
should have the facts and figures in front of them.

TONY JONES: Yes, but we keep having conversations without outcomes. We want to know - I guess the
public wants to know when the outcomes will appear, when will you make a decision on whether you
close down Hazelwood? When will you make a decision on where you're building and when you're
building high-speed rail?

JULIA GILLARD: Oh, well, Tony, I can't agree with your question, and really, frankly, I think
that's a little bit of an odd analysis in Australian politics. What we said to people at the last
election is (audio muted) you want more information about high-speed rail, we'll do a study and
release it. That was our election commitment, and we've done it.

On pricing carbon, well, Tony, we couldn't have had more action on putting the policy proposition
together; it's out there for all to see, including the tender process in relation to closing dirty
coal-fired power stations.

And then of course, as a government, we've acted on a series of other fronts. The Malaysia
arrangement that you and I have just spoken about, the health reforms that I've announced recently,
the opportunity and participation package out of the federal budget, the mental health package out
of the federal budget, the reconstruction of the nation through the flood levy and other financing
mechanisms, the structural separation of Telstra and the rollout of the NBN, and the list goes on.

So I said this year was a year of decision and delivery and it has been. We continue to decide on
big questions and deliver, but of course there are also topics where it pays to go out to the
community and say, "We believe these are things that are on your mind and we're interested in your

We're going to make some big decisions for the nation's future about questions of aging and
questions of dealing with Australians with disabilities and making sure they get the services they
need. Going out to consult the public is the right thing to do in those circumstances, Tony, and we

TONY JONES: OK. Alright. We're nearly out of time. You met with News Limited editors just the other
night. Senior Labor figures say Murdoch is at war with your government. Is it true you called for a

JULIA GILLARD: (Laughs). Tony, I went to an editors' meeting. Prime ministers, opposition leaders
have talked to such meetings in the past. I went at the invitation of John Hartigan.

It was a good discussion, it was a broad-ranging discussion, it was also a private meeting, and so
it's not my intention to go through the topics discussed there, but you would expect, as Prime
Minister, when I go and meet with fellow Australians, I talk about my vision for this country's
future and my policies and plans.

TONY JONES: You said that News Limited had some serious questions to answer. Did you ask those
questions at that meeting?

JULIA GILLARD: Well as I've just said, it was a private meeting and, Tony, I've been asked about
this ...

TONY JONES: I'm only asking if you asked the questions; I haven't even asked what they are.

JULIA GILLARD: (Laughs). Tony, I've been asked on these questions publicly. I've made publicly the
very simple point - and I genuinely do think it is a very simple point - when we see something big
happen overseas - and we've seen of course the News of the World telephone hacking scandal - when
we see something big happen overseas, then those things influence the discussions and questions
that people are asking here.

TONY JONES: Just briefly on that, do those questions warrant a new inquiry into the concentration
of media ownership in Australia?

JULIA GILLARD: And what I've said on that, Tony, is when Parliament resumes, I understand there'll
be people who'll want to raise the issue with me and I'll have a conversation with them then.

TONY JONES: So, there could be an inquiry into media ownership in Australia?

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, what I've said is some parliamentarians want to raise an issue with me, when
Parliament resumes, I'll have the discussion with them then.

TONY JONES: Julia Gillard, I've learnt not to pursue those questions without getting the same
answer over and over and over again, so, we'll leave you there. We thank you for much for taking
the time to join us tonight.

JULIA GILLARD: Thanks, Tony.

Tiger to remain grounded 'for some time'

Tiger Airways has failed to comply with investigator requests for documentation, making it
impossible for CASA to complete its investigation and lift the grounding order.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The grounding of Tiger Airways has been extended and its planes may not fly
for some time after the airline failed to comply with the investigator's request for documentation.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority says its investigation cannot be completed until Tiger provides
the correct safety material.

The initial grounding over safety concerns was set to expire this week, but CASA says the company
should not expect to be back in the air anytime soon.

Tonight Tiger has reported a net $20.6 million first quarter loss to the Singapore stock exchange,
while the company says its Australian operations are tracking towards a net loss for the full
financial year.

CCS fails to deliver on promise

Reporter: Margot O'Neill

The coal industry is bearing some of the blame for the failure of carbon capture and storage to
deliver on its promise to reduce emissions.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: It was hailed as one of the critical technologies needed to reduce global
greenhouse gas emissions while guaranteeing the future of coal-fired electricity, but carbon
capture and storage, or CCS, has so far failed to deliver.

Blame is being attributed not only to the Government, but also to the very industry which has the
most to gain: the coal industry.

Margo O'Neill reports.

MARGOT O'NEILL, REPORTER: Few unproven technologies have had as much hype as the one promising to
strip carbon emissions from coal-fired power stations and store them underground, known as carbon
capture and storage, or CCS.

JOHN HOWARD, THEN PRIME MINISTER (2006): Australia must aspire to be a world leader in clean coal

KEVIN RUDD, THEN PRIME MINISTER (2009): We do not have any more time to waste.

RALPH HILLMAN, AUSTRALIAN COAL ASSOCIATION (2009): This technology isn't pie in the sky. It's all
proven in the lab or in other parts of industry.

MARGOT O'NEILL: But after two decades, there's still no sign of clean coal, not one
industrial-scale CCS facility at a coal-fired power station anywhere in the world.

In fact a series of large projects have been recently cancelled or suspended. Australia's biggest
project in Queensland, known as ZeroGen, fell over in December because of a lack of suitable
underground storage and escalating costs.

Part of the problem is lack of industry money. In 2006, the Australian Coal Association launched a
10-year, $1 billion CCS fund. But nearly six years later, it's spent just $126 million.

PETER COOK, CO2 CRC: I think it is disappointing so far what's happened with industry, and all I
can do is look at the coal industry here. At least they put a billion dollars forward as the amount
of money they were going to put into this, but they've not actually got round to spending that. And
that's the disappointment.

MARGOT O'NEILL: One of the world's leading CCS experts, Dr Peter Cook, is about to step down as
head as Australia's CO2 Co-operative Research Centre. After 13 years advocating CCS, he told
Lateline the technology is now reaching crisis point.

PETER COOK: There's no question we're at the crossroads when it comes to CCS. Time is not on our

MARGOT O'NEILL: Many investors have now lost interest in CCS, according to a senior mining expert
from the international law firm Norton Rose.

ROBERT MILBOURNE, NORTON ROSE: Global sentiment is shifting away from CCS investments. I've seen
estimates in the trillions of dollars for the cost for retro-fitting most of the world's coal-fired
power generation. It does seem clear that there is more concern as to its viability.

MARGOT O'NEILL: Coal Association chief Ralph Hillman says small pilot projects have been testing
the technology, like this storage site in Victoria. The big dollars will flow when industrial-scale
plants are finally built. Originally targeted for 2015, he now predicts this will happen by 2020.

RAPLH HILLMAN, AUSTRALIAN COAL ASSOCIATION: It is our top priority. And the Australian Coal
Association in its present form was established in the year 2000 specifically to drive the
development and demonstration of low-emission coal technology. So it's still our number one agenda

MARGOT O'NEILL: It's now 2011 and you've spent exactly $126 million. How can you say that it's your
top priority?

RAPLH HILLMAN: Well the money is being put where it needs to be put.

You can, I suppose, have a view that you should just be throwing billions at this as fast as you
can, but in fact it doesn't work that way. When you're doing demonstration projects, they are in
fact quite small.

PETER COOK: At the end of the day, we've just got to get large-scale projects underway and it's a
concern that we're just not doing that.

MARGOT O'NEILL: The Federal Government has also allocated very little of its $1.68 billion CCS
flagship program, just $172 million, and approved just one project.

PETER COOK: It is a concern for me that after two years we don't actually have too much in the way
of decisions.

TONY WOOD, GRATTAN INSTITUTE: This money's sitting there not yet even spent, so the $1.6 billion
you mentioned could, in the end, not even be spent at all.

MARGOT O'NEILL: The International Energy Agency says the world will need more than 3,000 CCS plants
by 2050 because of accelerating emissions from India and China.

That will mean building a CCS plant every four or so days from 2020. But without even one
successful large-scale demonstration plant right now, that target looks impossible.

One large-scale CCS-on-coal plant could cost $4 or $5 billion. So far the Government has sought
matching funds from industry and state governments. It believes the carbon tax will help drive
investment. But industry is opposing the tax and believes taxpayers should bear most of the
financial burden of proving the technology.

RAPLH HILLMAN: Well, come back to the Productivity Commission report and former Prime Minister
Rudd's own clear statement that this was a matter of national interest.

It was not a matter you leave for the coal industry or the power-generating industry. The coal
resources of Australia are the property of the Australian people.

You know, it is not the responsibility of the coal industry.

TONY WOOD: You end up with a crazy game of ping-pong where everyone just bats the ball backwards
and forwards and we don't actually get anywhere. And what's required is both clear advocacy and
political leadership from government, but also then the investment that has to come through from
industry. And until we find the right conversation for that, then I think that paralysis is going
to continue for some time yet.

MARGOT O'NEILL: Margot O'Neill, Lateline.

Lagarde faces abuse of power allegations


Newly-appointed International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde will be investigated for
alleged abuse of authority during her time as the French finance minister.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The newly-appointed head of the International Monetary Fund, Christine
Lagarde, will be formally investigated for alleged abuse of authority when she was the French
finance minister.

French judges will decide whether Lagarde was wrong to intervene in a legal battle between a
formerly state-owned bank and a French tycoon.

Lagarde has denied misusing her influence in the affair, in which arbitrators awarded a big payout
to the businessman.

Syria allows opposition parties

Embattled Syrian president Bashar al-Assad has reportedly decreed a law allowing opposition
political parties.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Syria's embattled president Bashar al-Assad has decreed a law that allows
opposition political parties, according to the country's state media.

The announcement of the new law comes as the UN Security Council condemns for the first time the
regime's deadly crackdown on democracy protests.

The council's statement calling on Syria to stop using force against civilians was adopted over the
fears of some members that any action could lead to a Libyan-style intervention.

BAN KI-MOON, UN SECRETARY-GENERAL: The world has watched the deteriorating situation in Syria with
the most profound concern, but the events of the past few days have been brutally shocking.

TONY JONES: UN condemnation comes as the Syrian Army continues its assault on the city of Hama.
Residents say tanks and troops are in the city centre, with snipers positioned on rooftops.

Human rights groups claim up to 140 people have been killed in the unrest since Sunday, mainly in
Hama, adding to a civilian death toll believed to be more than 1,600 since March.