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(generated from captions) but he isn't now. Just like Poe. (CAWS) maybe he was pushed off the train. And don't forget the engineer, (SCREAMS) This is awful! On no! What are we going to do? I don't think that's helping. DRAMATIC MUSIC Sorry, just can't resist. Hmm. OK.

the train won't stop, We have to pick up Doom, the engineer and Poe are gone. experiencing a bit of a set back. I would say the vacation is (ALL SCREAM) To be continued. Closed Captions By CSI

This Program Is Captioned Live.

Good morning. The Federal

Government's carbon campaign is

heading into your loungeroom with

launch of a multi-million dollar heading into your loungeroom with the advertising campaign today. Television commercials featuring

clean energy companies will air on free-to-air and

government says the

government says the campaign will free-to-air and pay TV networks. The

give clear information about the

to price carbon and doesn't breach give clear information about the plan

guidelines. National any government advertising

across the UK are today running guidelines. National newspapers full-page

full-page advertisements with a

signed apology from Rupert Murdoch.

The media mogul says he's sorry for

the 'serious wrong doing' by his

of the World newspaper. He is the 'serious wrong doing' by his News

reportedly spending the weekend with

lawyers and a public lawyers and a public relations

expert, as he prepares for his appearance before

More horses are being tested for parliamentary committee this week.

Hendra virus after the latest

outbreaks in south-east Queensland.

The deadly disease has now been

detected on the Fraser Coast

detected on the Fraser Coast and in

Brisbane's north, with two horses in

Hervey Bay and Boondall euthanised

earlier this week. And NRL

earlier this week. And NRL fans had

nervous night with two golden point earlier this week. And NRL fans had a

games overnight Penrith and south

Sydney, both scored field goals in

golden

golden point extra time to clinch their NRL

their NRL games last night. Panthers beat Parramatta while the their NRL games last night. The

Rabbitohs trumped the Sydney

Roosters. Those are the latest

headlines, stay tuned now for Insiders with Barrie Cassidy. This Program Is Captioned

Live.

Good morning. Welcome to

Insiders. It's been 10 years

this week since Insiders first

went to air. It's hard to

recall a time when the public

was so divided and the debate

so manic and nasty. The

government has hoping the long

overdue release of the details

of the carbon tax would act as

a circuit breaker but to many

it felt like an election

campaign with nothing at the

edged of it and it's unleashed

a more vitriolic effort from

those opposed to it.

The hard sell is on in

earnest. How are you? There was

a visit to a shopping mall, a

suburban house call and endless

media interviews. We've got a

lot of explaining to do. Senior

government ministers did at

least 100 different interviews

today. I'm happy to keep

talking about carbon pricing. I

can do it all day. You will

be. Certainly all of our

ministers are involved in

talking to the community about

putting a price on carbon

pollution. They've been

dispatched to all corners of

the country, ordered to sell a

complex package in simple

language. (Speaks

Mandarin) I'm happy to take any

advice on the explanation.

This is a big tax

retrospectoscope. That's what

it is.

I want to do the right thing

by the environment. I made a

choice. CSIRO, Alan Jones.

CSIRO, Alan Jones. I picked the

CSIRO. I think Tony might've

made the other choice. Barnaby

wants to do the right thing by

the environment. I'm gonna stop

the tax! Because she lied to

the Australian public! Why did

you lie to us? Well, I can

talk to you about that. And why

are you continuing to lie and

say, well, you know, I didn't

really mean to lie. I can

explain all of that to you. I'm

going to do everything I

possibly can with all of my

colleagues to stop the tax.

I'm not stupid. If stupid is

the worst thing I'm get called

I'm a happy boy. She did a

job on Kevin didn't she? She

did a job on Kevin. You have no

mandate. You have no

mandate. Oh go away! Go away

love! She said there will be no

carbon tax under my

government. Absolutely. I

did say that.

Who is the coalition going

to do to try and stop the

people of Australia taking up

arms against this

government? (Applause)

I'd say to you, we should

never do that I just wanted to

say a few things. Firstly I

wanted to say that I do believe

in climate change and I do believe that human beings

contribute towards that. I

think that we have a

responsibility to actually do

something about it. This girl

has no mandate. Please, give me

some respect because I've

respected your views all

morning. Put the placards up,

come on. Thank for giving Vicky

a decent hearing, because it's important in a democracy that

all voices are heard. Take

your party political opinion

somewhere else. We do not need

you at all. The question is

fairly simple. How can anyone

trust you with this record?

Because I don't think I can any

more.

You're following me from the

community forum and you're

intimidating me. I'm not scared

of the fight. I'm not scared of

the fight. I'm not scared of

the fight. (Applause) I want

'cause you to come and pick me up

'cause I'm really scared. When

is it OK for a person holding

high office to lie? I've never

shied away from a red hot go in

a political contest. They can

play their politics, they can

go out there and market and

talk about who's going to win

the next election. Such

political future as I have got

rests entirely on beating this

tax. I have determined to get

this done. I will get it done. This ugliest of unofficial

election campaigns still has

two years to run. Insiders this

week marked its 10th

anniversary. Our first guest on

that occasion was John Howard.

We'll interview him again

today. Mike Bowers will have a special Talking Pictures.

Before then well he check out

the Sunday papers around the

country. The Prime Minister

went into the lion's den. She

went to the Hazelwood plant in

the La Trobe valley? Yes, she had a private meeting with

workers at the Hazelwood plant.

Although you have no real

grounds for assumeing it would

be any more unattractive than

the collection of images we've

just seen, what this week has

been about for her is her

determination to go everywhere,

front every allegation anyone

can throw at her. That's what's

made for all of this

messy-looking interaction we've

seen in the package just then.

But does it work? Because every

time she does this, she was on

television again, the constant

question is: why did you

lie? That's the point. If you

looked at this week just on the basis of facts, it should've been a good week for the

government. A lot of the industries which were supposed

to be wiped off the map by this

tax said no they're not going

to be wiped off the mat. The impact on households is pretty

small. A lot of them will get compensated. But really at the

end of the week t doesn't feel

like it was a good week for the

government at all. That's

because it's really coming down

a question of not facts but

trust. At the end of the week

the really interesting thing is

Julia Gillard keeps saying oh

the facts speak for themselves and the fact also win in the

end. Tony Abbott keeps more and

more coming back to that

question. Do you trust their

figures? It's really becoming almost a debate that's gone

beyond the facts of the matter. Can you trust Tony

Abbott not to exaggerate the

situation? There should be a

question of trust on both sides? Possibly but that's not what seems to be being

perceived in the electorate. I

think you can't really only

blame Tony Abbott for that. The

government has brought a lot of

this on itself. For the government in particular, it's

coming down to a question of

... Will perseverance pay out

in the end. It's not just a

matter of trust. Gar vee

Stephenson says "What about my

job security, what about the

security of the La Trobe Valley? There were no answers

at that this meeting." There

are a lot of workers around,

people in small business, they're not being compensated.

And some of the workers think they're going to lose their

jobs and no-one can tell them

that they're not going to lose

their jobs. The Prime Minister

couldn't tell this group at Hazelwood that they would not

lose their jobs. That's the

problem. Journalists in secure

employment and relatively well

off can say that. If you have a

spouse and a couple of kids

... I'm not dismissing these

people's concerns. I'm just

saying that's Julia Gillard -

do not accuse me of not ... I'm

not accusing you of anything. If you have a spouse and a

couple of children and you live

in the La Trobe Valley you have

every reason to be worried

about this. It's not a question

of whether you will have a job

in a year's time. That's the

issue. Of course both policies

propose to close down the

Hazelwood coal station early,

so the insecurity for people in

those jobs would be similar no

matter who was in government

and in both cases, it's a

question of economic transition. I'm not questioning

the insecurity, either. Make it

quick, we want to get back to

fighting! I advise the viewers

to watch Gerard's hands! Look,

this debate is going to be won

or lost in the suburbs not in

the coalmines or the zinc

refineries or the al mum ya

refineries. The big issue in

this suburb is whether Julia Gillard will do the Gillard will do the right thing by people. And if you've got at least two polls have got her personal rating at somewhere like 30%, which means something like 70% of the electorate either is not listening to her or seriously discounting everything she says. So she has to go out there and confront that and the only way to do it is to turn That's the Sunday papers. Now the interview with former Prime Minister John Howard, recorded in his Sydney offices. Welcome to Insiders. Welcome back to Insiders. Thank you, it's good to see you again. You were our first guest 10 years ago that was the day after the Aston by-election. That was a by-election your government was supposed to lose that was a real turning point? It was. I said at the time that we were back in the game. If we'd have lost the Aston by-election, which by all history we should've, it would've further depressed the then government, and given the Labor Party an enormous boost but we didn't, and I thought to myself, we can win this. And it really was the turning point. If it had turned0 thought way, that would've been a very short career for you? It certainly would've been and I remember the evening very well. Because not only did we hold Aston but of course the Wallabies

defeated the British Lions and

I was - if I remember rightly I

was very hoarse on the

program. You were. It was

laryngitis in cheering for the

Wallabies. Then of course very

soon after that, Tampa and then September 11 happened. They

were dramatic events and that

had a real impact on the way

people saw national security.

Now that worked for you as

well? Oh yes. My view is if Tampa and Tampa and September 11 had not

happened, we still would've won

because Aston indicated that

people had grave doubts about

Labor and it still had some

faith in us as economic managers but the majority

would've been smaller. 10 years

ago asylum seekers were the big

issue. It still is. If seems as if nothing has been re-Sol

snfd No, well, the big mistake,

you will forgive me saying it,

was for the Rudd Government to reverse the successful reverse the successful policy

of the Howard Government.

Because it had disappeared as

an issue as problem. I mean, in

2001 something like 5 to 6,000

illegal arrivals were there.

The following year that had

dwindled to one or two and they

were the figures of the Immigration Department, not

mine. There was a dramatic

impact from our Pacific

Solution and all of that, and

that policy should never have

been changed. Now been changed. Now of course we

are satisfying nobody, we've

got hundreds more people in

detention, there's a sense in

the Australian community that

we've lost control of our

borders again. The Australian

people will always support high immigration and a reasonable

refugee intake if they think

the government is running the

show and the government is not

being pushed around by others. The Malaysian

agreement, do you think that will

will help? One aspect of that

is to increase the number of

refugees coming out of

Malaysia. I will leave comment

on the current policy to the

opposition and to the

government. I simply note the

hip pock she that can you sign

an agreement with Malaysia

that's not a signatory to the

convention on refugees, but of

course you can't do something with

with Nauru. There've been big

changes in the 10 years since

the first interview. The

political debate seems to be -

it's not as substantial as it

once was. People worry about

the quality of leadership in

this country. Do you see it

that way? I'm not as

pessimistic as that. I think

Tony Abbott is doing a

fantastic job. I think the

problem at the moment is that

the current Prime Minister

appears to lack any authority. Because of

Because of the very equivocal

outcome from the last election.

I make this prediction: the

next election the public will

vote very heavily one way or

the other. I think the Greens

have peaked. You probably think

that's counter-intuitive, that

the Greens are going on from

strength to strength. I think

the Greens are starting to

alarm people. I think they are

increasingly seen as the real

extremists in Australian extremists in Australian politics, and Australians don't like extremists, and I hope,

for example, that the next

federal election, the Liberal

Party puts the Labor Party

ahead of the Greens in the seat

of Melbourne. 'Cause I think

Green policies are much worse

than Labor policies. When you

say they will vote heavily one

way or the other, do you

seriously think there is still

a chance they'll vote heavily

in favour of Labor? The polls

would suggest not, but would suggest not, but there's

two years to go. I think the

coalition will win. But I say

to my friends and colleagues,

don't take anything for

granted. My poll ratings at the

beginning of 2001 were

terrible. In fact, they were

worse than Kevin Rudd's were

when the Labor Party dumped him

which shows the level of panic

that they embraced in making

that decision. So your message

to Julia Gillard, not that you

would want to give it, but hang in in? My

in in? My message to my

colleagues, I won't presume to

send messages to Julia Gillard,

is yes, you're doing very well

at the moment. I think Abbott's

a great leader. And he's got a

laser-like focus on the

weaknesses of government. At

some point, should he become

more positive? Look, he will.

But the only issue in town at the moment is

the moment is the carbon tax

issue. And he is right to focus

on it. Almost to the exclusion

of everything else but he's got

another two years. As he

rightly says he will bring

things out. You look at where

the Liberal Party was until he

took over. He brought the

Liberal Party back from the

dead and he went within one

seat of overturning 100 years

of Australian political

history, and that

history, and that is, turning

out a first-term government

except in the special

circumstances of skullen's

defeat. You went to the

election supporting an ETS.

What's the problem with it

now? The rest of the world is

not doing it. The whole basis

of what we put forward in 2007 was that

was that the rest of the world was that the rest of the world

was inexorably moving toward as

carbon tax and yet that's not

happening. You told the

National Press Club in July

2007 that in the years to come,

it will provide a model for

other nations to follow.

Peter Shergold who advised you at the time talked about

getting out in front. He did do

that but the very first sentence of the terms of

reference for the Shergold

inquiry was that we had inquiry was that we had to

preserve the competitive position of Australian industries because of the pre-eminence of fossil fuels

and the whole basis on which we

went to the people with that

policy and the believe was that

the rest of the world would

follow and would be going in

the same direction, but they're

not. I mean the Americans, and

I've just been in the United

States and there that's no

chance in the world of the

Americans embracing an emissions trading system. emissions trading system. The

Indians aren't, the Chinese

aren't. We are crazy to be

going ahead of the rest of the

world. If the rest of the world

were adopting a different

attitude, well then a different

attitude might be count

nangsed. But the whole scene

has changed. In 2007 people

were sort of almost dancing in

the streets in favour of these

measures. Since then we've had

the global financial crisis,

we've had the collapse in

we've had the collapse in

Copenhagen. And the whole

atmospheric of the debate has

altered. Because you did say

then at the Press Club that

being among the first to move

will bring new opportunities

and we intend to grasp them.

You're making the judgment now

that the world won't move. You

wouldn't want to be wrong

because you will lose those

opportunitys? I'm making the

judgment now which is based on

evidence of the last three evidence of the last three

years. The Canadians and Canada

is a country most like

Australia when it comes to

this, Canadians have just voted

in a government which is

totally opposed, given it had a

majority in its own right,

which is totally opposed to an

ETS or a carbon tax. Four years

ago the likelihood was, the

belief was, perhaps more than

the empirical likelihood but the belief was that the world the belief was that the world was going to go in this

direction. That has changed .

On top of that I think it's

fair to say that some of the

views have shifted on the n

science. People aren't quite as

certain about the science now,

as they were four years ago. So

it's one thing then to argue as

you do that the world is not

going to move, but Tony Abbott

says far more than that. He

portray it is as the most

damaging policy initiative in a decade and that whole decade and that whole industries, even towns, are

going to close down. Is that an

exaggeration? No, look, I've

heard a lot about Tony Abbott's

alleged exaggerations. I mean,

the truth is that he's fighting

a very tough and effective

campaign against something that

he doesn't believe in, and can

I just remind you of something

else? That the Liberal Party

changed its leader over the issue of emissions issue of emissions trading an

leaving aside what your view

is, what Tony Abbott is

articulating is a very strongly

critical approach on this

issue. Which is very different

from the position that the Liberal Party had

previously. But is he fighting

fair? To talk about petrol

going up by 6 c a litre. When

you say fighting Nair - I mean, hang on,

hang on, people start

criticising the Liberal Party

for having an effective

negative campaign as if they're

the first party in the world

that's ever done it. Heavens

above I seem to remember my

predecessor calling something a

monster new tax as it would

bring about a lifestyle change

and the world would never be

the same again and yet on a few

years earlier he'd very

strongly supported a similar tax. On industrial tax. On industrial relations would you like to see him

revisit that issue? How he

handles the tactics of industrial relations is a

matter for him. And one of the

things I promised myself after

I went out of politics was that

I wouldn't give day-to-day

tactical advice. I mean you asked me about the issue of

industrial relations. I think

it's a tragedy that Julia

Gillard has reregulated the

labour market. For the first time

time in a generation, a major

economic reform has been

reversed. And I think that this nation will have to revisit industrial relations in the future and the calamitous

retreat on that issue will do

us steadily more harm as the

years go by, and I hope that

the system

the system produces a

revisitation of industrial relations, 'cause I believe in

it. I don't think there's

anything wrong with individual

contracts. We made a mistake in

2006 in taking away the

no-disadvantage test but we'd

had individual contracts for 11

years. They weren't a product

of WorkChoices. They were a

product of Reith's 1996 Act and

I do believe for very I do believe for very small

businesses you need relief from

the current unfair dismissal

laws. You want to see reversed

what Julia Gillard has already

... I want to go back to the pre-WorkChoices position then

add to that something on unfair

dismissal. Now they're my views. Whether the Liberal

Party picks those views up or

not is entirely a matter for

it. I won't be running around

it. I won't be running around

the country every day spruiking

it. You ask me a view on a

policy issue I feel very strongly about. I think it was

an error, Gillard went too far.

She didn't just abolish

WorkChoices. She went back to

the pre-1992 position and we

have a very heavily regulated

labour market and we'll pay

ever more dearly for that as time goes by. You time goes by. You pay e dearly

for WorkChoices. This thank would still be fresh in Tony

Abbott's mind . That's the

tactical side of it. It was one

of the reasons why we lost. It

wasn't the only reason. And in

my view it wasn't the main

reason. The main reason we lost

was I think people wanted a

change. The "it's time" factor.

That always comes into play. But if you're talking to me

about policy principle, I about policy principle, I believed in industrial

relations reform and I think

it's a great pity for this

country that it's been totally

reversed. But I don't expect

Tony Abbott to do what - necessarily what I'm saying.

It's a matter for him. I should

say for the record that of all

the senior ministers in my

Cabinet in 2005, when we debated WorkChoices, Tony

Abbott was less enthusiastic about change

about change than any of the

others. On the news media and

given events in the UK and the

closing down of 'News of the

World', it does seem to be an

appetite growing in part of

politics to take this on, to

take on the media in this

country. I think this is

ridiculous. I mean, argue with

the media on particular issues,

but there's nothing

fundamentally wrong with the Australian

Australian media. I agree with

some of what it writes and says

others I don't. As for bias, I

listen to Labor people talking about

about media bias. Gimme a

break! They ought to remember

what Harry Truman said, if you

can't stand the heat get out of

the kitchen. This idea that Bob

Brown is floating and Julia

Gillard is yapping along behind Gillard is yapping along behind

him apparently, they want an

inquiry into the media? The

media has been enquired into

death into this country. They

better be careful. They night

have a revisitation of that

famous appearance of Kerry

Packer before the media Senate

inquiry where he really bashed

them up. Heavens above. Let the

media do its job. We don't want

another inquiry. Did you ever

worry in government about the

dominance though of News Limited and Rupert Murdoch and

did you ever feel as if he

threw his weight around to too

great an ex fent? No, I didn't

and in the end we should

remember that the media doesn't

have nearly as much influence

on events in Australia as

politicians often think. I'm reminded of the Republican

referendum in 1999 when as you

will remember, Barrie, News

Limited , Fairfax and the ABC

were almost screaming together

in unison at the in unison at the Australian

public to vote yes and they

voted no. The only sections of

the Australian media that were

really strongly opposed to a

yes vote were some of the

talkback people. I thought at

time you'd set back the cause

of a republic for about 10

years but it looks like being a

whole lot more than that? I

think so, yeah. Look, I think

it's a very low-level issue

with the Australian public, even amongst even amongst passionate

Republicans. You were in

politics for 33 years. What do

you most miss about it now? Oh

I miss the opportunity of doing

things that I think are good

for the country. I loved it.

People say to me do you miss

being Prime Minister? Yes, I

do. But have you adjusted? Yes,

I have. I mean you go on to the

next phase of your life. But

the opportunity of doing

things, the opportunity of

debating ideas, engaging in debating ideas, engaging in the

cut and thrust of discuss

public affairs issues, it's a

neverending fascination for me.

And of course I miss it but I

had a terrific run. I mean, 33

years and almost 12 as Prime

Minister. You can't complain

about that. Thanks for joining us this morning. Really

appreciate it. Thanks. A lot

to reflect upon there. On to reflect upon there. On

industrial relations he is saying the tactics are a matter

for Tony Abbott but he gave him

a fair nudge-along just the

same? Yes and it's interesting

that he is presenting it as a

tactical issue, it's a matter

of how not a matter of whether. That reflects a strong view in

the Liberal Party party room, it's something that's been

brought up. A lot of people in the Liberal Party agree with

it. The question is when and it. The question is when and

whether and how Tony Abbott can

switch from attack mode to his

own policy mode, and at the

moment, he has been in attack

mode for so long, it's not

clear when and how he makes

that tactical switch. In any

case, he'd be be a reluctant starter as John Howard

says? Tony Abbott was one of

the least supportive of

changing. There's no suggestion

of going back to of going back to WorkChoices.

John Howard there has suggested going back before WorkChoices

there is a good argument for

that. You look at the current

productivity figures. They're

pretty dis ma'am. The

reregulation of the labour

market has not worked. We're

going to see more problems in

the months ahead but it's a

difficult problem for Tony

Abbott. He is not particularly

fussed about it at the moment.

But come the election I think

certainly getting rid of the certainly getting rid of the unfair dismissal laws for some

sections of small businesses is

very important. Because you

look at the very high levels of

youth unemployment in the

suburbs of Australia's capital

cities and it's partly due to

the very tough unfair dismissal

laws. There's no incentive to

employ people who may be a risk

in a job. How convincing was he

on the carbon tax? He once

supported an ETS. He no longer

does. He says he is now

persuaded the world will not

persuaded the world will not follow? He was pretty strongly

on the record in 2007 saying

that Australia was moving ahead

of the world hand the way he

would protect industry was by

having compensation for trade

exposed industries. He is now

saying that looking at what's

happened since then he would've

been of a different mind. I

think we have to take him at

his word on that. That's his

view but he is on the record in

2007 as you put to him saying

yep we're ahead of the rest of yep we're ahead of the rest of

the world. In 2007 he was

caught. We had the worst

drought in a hundred years. We

had the Al Gore film. I mean, people going around saying

there'd never be substantial

rain in Australia ever again,

and John Howard sort of

surrendered to that for

political reasons. But I don't

think he ever fully believed in

it it. In a wait story of the

last four years is kind of a

story of the failure of the

Australian body politic to Australian body politic to make

use of consensus when it existed on this issue. There's

an argument the best chance

we've had of getting an ETS in would've been the re-election

of the Howard Government.

However, just as - just say

John Howard was re-elected,

just when he was going to be

introducing or explaining an

ETS to the public there

would've been the global

financial collapse, there

would've been Copenhagen, so would've been Copenhagen, so

even then it mightn't have been

possible to introduce. It's a

fantasy politics game but it

still might be that Australia's

not just des I tined to have a genuine ETS. She is up against

it as you say. That was the

theme she took to the Press

Club. What I said before the

election, I can't unsay now.

Nothing ever gets easier by

putting it off till later. And

because of that, in the moment

I truly believed I was going to

be Prime Minister, I told

myself don't ever put a hard

call off. Because it will only

get harder every day. And if

you don't do what's right for

this nation, then you shouldn't

be Prime Minister. It's not

what she said to Kevin Rudd.

Which again is part of the

problem. But having watched

that, what we saw there, was that, what we saw there, was that frustration or self-pity?

If it's self-pity you're

starting to get into dangerous territory. Exhaustion, I

reckon. Look she's got this

diabolical problem, which is

that the issue of the carbon

tax lie is now a living,

breathing political issue all

on its own. Completely separate

from the actual nuts and bolts

of how this scheme is going to work and so on. It's work and so on. It's like a

block. She can't actually

explain the basics of how this

scheme is going to function.

She can't convince people, she

can in the laboratory

conditions, in a Queensland forum where people are brought

in and the doors are locked,

she can turn around about one

in five of them according to

the exit figures from the event

the other night. But apart from

that, it's this thing that

stands in the way. What you can

see her doing there at the

Press Club is trying to Press Club is trying to kind of

deflate it in some way, to talk

people around, to explain to

them why she said what she said

and ... Humanise it. Cut me,

do I not bleed? I don't really

think it worked. The whole shy

girl think I don't think worked

all that well. She put her hand

up to be Prime Minister. How

shy can she be? If you go back

to Lenore's original report in to Lenore's original report in

April 2010, Labor dropped the

ETS because they thought they

would lose the election. If you

bring back a carbon tax leading

to an ETS, why wouldn't you

think so again? They dropped

the ETS because they didn't go

to a double dissolution

election when they

should've. Here's Tony Abbott's significant contribution during

the week. I have dedicated my

political life, whatever's left

of it, to stopping of it, to stopping this carbon

tax. If it comes in, to taking

it off and resisting till the

death this thing coming in. So,

you know, this is - such

political future as I have got

rests entirely on beating this

tax. Beating it in the

Parliament if I can, but

beating it in the electorate if

I can't beat it in the

Parliament. So that's the whole purpose

purpose of what's left of my

political life, to do this.

The whole purpose, single aim,

defeat a single government

policy. That's right, because

if Tony Abbott does not win the

next election ... Don't you

think if he was to win the

election there is a couple of

other odd jobs you can could do

for us there. Politicians are

about winning elections. I had think what he

think what he is looking at is

that it will be difficult for

him when he has to switch to

positive. He has made a whole

lot of promises that are very,

very difficult to add up,

including his direction action

policy and his tax cuts,

repealing the mining tax,

repealing the carbon tax. repealing the carbon tax. If

you put that all together it

adds up to an enormous cut in

government spending then there

is a valid question, is it the

right time to be cutting

enormous amounts out of enormous amounts out of government spending when

sections of the economy are

weak? When he gets up to

talking about all of that it's

going to be difficult for him,

but right now you have to say

he is in a pretty strong

position. It was a genuine

expression of the commitment he

has made to fighting. This is

the be-all and end-all. Small

business is screaming out for assistance because it's assistance because it's not

getting that much from this

government. Bruce Billson is

doing a good job as shadow

minister. You never hear from

him. Unless you hear about

carbon tax and occasionally

about asylum seekers, the

Abbott opposition doesn't want

you speaking out. Consumer

confidence is down, the

retailers are taking the the

hit. A whole bunch of things hit. A whole bunch of things going on. World affairs is

troubling people. The hung

apartment. The neg difficulty

that's around. You hear people

writing about the two-speed economy and you hear the Prime

Minister and the Treasurer

talking about it. The very

graphic demonstration what have

this two-speed economy looks

like. Mining companies going gang busters whilst everybody

else puts their wallets and

purses back in their purses back in their pockets.

Retail going under enormous

pressure. The David Jones

results this week were just

terrifying. That gives you a

flash of how different ly

different parts of the economy

are responding. There is a very

hostile feeling to the

government in the economy. As a

historian looking back, this

has happened on two occasions

in the 20th century. 1931 when

it was resolved when the Labor Party split and six Labor

people crossed the floor. 1975

it was re-Sol of the when

supply was blocked and the Governor-General dismissed the

Labor Government. This time

there doesn't seem to be any

resolution to this. There is a

huge degree of frustration.

It's very much among those

whose jobs are less secure and

who have less education than

the others and they're angry. I

can understand why they are. can understand why they are. I

don't know how you can resolve it. If uncertainty is one of

the problems, as it seems to

be, then where does that leave

Tony Abbott? Because in two

years' time he wins an election

and then spend as few years

unpicking the carbon tax. I

mean, it's kind of a pretty

unpre-possessing scenario. There is another

historic example here. Rob

berment Menzies won in 49 and

he forced the double

dissolution election in 51. He got got everything through for the

next six years. Tony Abbott can

take a double dissolution. He said he would and why wouldn't

he? This is Paul Keating's take

on Tony Abbott. You know what

Tony Abbott's policy is? If you

don't give me the job I will

wreck the place. Oh well, Tony,

you better have it! Otherwise

you might destroy it on us. I mean, Tony's

mean, Tony's gotta have the

political judo chop. Get off

the couch and put all the former Prime Ministers here!

Let's get a bigger couch!

Carbon tax wasn't the only

issue in town this week N

certain sections of the media

the 'News of the World' and the

problems for Rupert Murdoch .

Now talk of an inquiry. Some

sort of parliamentary inquiry. Who knows what Who knows what form it might

take? But let's hear Julia

Gillard's take on this this

week when she was asked about

her approach to media

reporting. You would say it's

not your job to change mind business a government's policy

and that's true. But I think it

is your job to get information

to people that's accurate and

rigorous. Some of the crazier

claims we've seen in this

debate need to be put to one

side and the accurate facts get

out there. I think we will have

a long debate about media

ethics in this country. But if

I could put it as clearly as I

can, I'd say to you, don't

write crap. (Laughter) Can't be

that hard. (Applause) And when

you have written complete crap,

then I think you then I think you should correct

it. It depends how this thing

is going to be flamed. What if

it's framed around people's

privacy, that kind of

thing? There is a media Quon

vuls under way in Britain. It's

unleashed a huge amount of hostility towards the Murdoch

companies. People want to

import that through Australia

and have it vented through an

inquiry. Why do they want an

inquiry? Not because of the

inappropriate behaviour in

Britain is happening here,

largely they want an inquiry

because they don't believe in

the news selection of the

editors of the Australian and

the 'Daily Telegraph'. Bob the 'Daily Telegraph'. Bob

Brown had two press conferences

calling for an inquire reap. At

neither conference did he nail

down a reason for an inquiry.

It's simply because he doesn't

like what he calls the hate

media. Don't you think there is

disquiet among the public about

the way the media exercises its

responsibility? There will be

an inquiry. What it's about, I

don't know yet. There are

issues like privacy that issues like privacy that should

be looked at. Maybe media

ownership. But do you come up

with a plan for News Limited to

divest? It's a very complicated

difficult area that should be

addressed in a way that it's

not being addressed now which is kicking out at newspapers

that you don't like. Let's

listen to Chris Smith from 2GB.

He was talking about taking the He was talking about taking the

show on the road, taking the

entire station to Canberra to protest against the

government. August 16 is our

date with political destiny. If

we can't eclipse what happened

in March, when we had 4,000

gather around Parliament House,

we will lose this fight. That's

the risk you take when you

stick your neck out but we have

to stick our neck out to make a

difference. We must make a

bigger stand and rock the Prime

Minister's boat one final

time. I guess they're entitled

to do it. They're not going to

do it by the way. They've

backed off. Depends what Bob

Brown wants enquired into.

Lindsay Tanner said the 'Age'

in Melbourne said an

advertising journal for the

Greens. We're going to enquire

into that? Rupert Murdoch's company has a company has a problem with one

newspaper in Britain, the 'News

of the World'. That's where the

problem is. The problem may or

may not be resolved but it's

got nothing to do with

Australia. I would agree we have to be careful about what

we're enquiring into in

Australia. The issues we would

be enquiring into are separate from what the Prime Minister

calls absolute crap. There is

absolute crap being written on

some of these issues there is

stuff being written that's

completely devoid of any fact

but that's not something that I

think it would be healthy for

politicians to enquire into,

the people who are aggrieved

about the lack of factual

analysis. If they want to

enquire into something

different, that's fine. We need

to be quite clear they're

talking about separate

things. The situation in the UK

didn't catch fire until this

revelation really about this

horrible incident at this poor

dead girl's mobile phone being

hacked into. The situation in

Britain that still persists

largely unremarked on is that

newspapers there pick sides. I

mean I remember in 2005 the

Daily Mirror's front page was a doctored picture of Michael

Howard the Conservative Leader

dressed up as Dracula. I mean,

you know, these are organs that

bay for their readers bay for their readers or

listeners or whatever to vote a

certain way. If they do have an

inquiry, you could end up with

something like this. You're

either gonna have to believe me

or call me a liar. I am telling

you, there is no arrangement.

And I'm sick of telling people

there is no arrangement. That

is the situation. There is no

arrangement. There is no

arrange agreement. I'm sick of

trying to tell you all. I am

not going to run John Fairfaxes. Let's just suppose. Let's suppose we

don't. This is an intellectual

wank is going on here. I think

Rupert Murdoch would be a

little more chasened before that when he goes before the

inquiry in the UK. Talking

Pictures with a difference this

morning. Bob Brown is a guest host. Try host. Try this We couldn't land

in Canberra this morning, but I

tack the opportunity of taking

some pictures of the

Brindabellas and the Snowy

Mountains. Just fabulous

country. On second thought,

we've had Mike Bowers for 10

years, I think we'll stick with

them. Here he is, Mike Bowers.

I'm talking 10 years of

pictures this morning with

cartoonist for the 'Daily

Telegraph' Warren Brown. And

Andrew M e, ar es, chief photographer for Fairfax.

Welcome, gentlemen. I was going

to bake you a cake but that can

make complicated television.

Here is my TimTams for you,

only 1.2 c extra under carbon

tax. I will forward them on to

the chaps down in Melbourne. Warren, John Howard was a Warren, John Howard was a mainstay of Talking Pictures

for almost six years? I know, I

miss him so much. I miss being

able to talk like him. It's

sensational from a cartoonist's

point of view. He did have a

very recognisable face A real

gift to give you. Bountiful

brows were applied almost in

any way? He did. Bill Leak who

said once the GST came in his

bottom lip grew by 10% A lovely

bottom lip grew by 10% A lovely line. Bill did a cartoon of

the GST being a big hairy

gorilla being led from a cage.

The gorilla had almost exactly

the same features as John

Howard? It's a wonderful ly

cruel cartoon. You can be

equally unfair to everyone in

cartooning. His morning walk

gave you you access to him in

an unscripted way. Why did you

go and photograph him almost

every morning? As you said,

something might happen. That's

the great fear of being a press

photograph y you might miss

something. In one of the great cross-pollinations between

photography and cartooning his

green and gold Australian

tracksuit became as much part

of him as the

eyebrows. Pre-lacksed and comfortable. One of the great comfortable. One of the great cross-pollinations that is never going to leave Alexander

Downer alone is the story of

the fish nemts which started

from a really charitable thing

he was trying to do. I have to

say, he actually doesn't have a

bat food. He is rather fetching

from the knees down. And it

stuck. And boy did it stick, to

this day ... You kind of regret putting on stiletto, wouldn't

you? You put on one fishnet

stocking. Look, we can't

discuss the Howard Government

without sort of the side kick.

It's like Butch Cassidy without

the Sundance Kid. Peter

Costello. He was quite at home

in front of a camera. He played

it up a bit? The smirk. Every

press conference you got that smirk. You could see some

catalyst in his mind about to

unleash a tirade. You unleash a tirade. You can't Opposition Leaders without

talking about the giant, the

elephant in the room, Mark

Latham. He was a gift

photographically, cartooning,

stories, the ink that must've

been printed about this man.

He was the elephant in the

China shop. To think he came so

close to becoming Prime

Minister. I know! He was never

too fond of

photographers? Certainly took

to a photographer's cameras with a with a hammer. When Kevin Rudd

came on the scene the

cartoonists of Australia drew

his face as perfectly round.

Bill Leak told me he used to

use a 20 c piece. It was just a

sphere. He would do strange

things. He was sort of folksy. The 2020 Summit. I

criticised him for not having a

great visual language. He was

incredibly aware where the

cameras were and certainly played up to

played up to it. If you sent to

central casting and drew a a

politician for cartooning and

photography you couldn't do a

better job than Tony Abbott

when the pugilist, the name

itself, his boxing, and budgie

smugglers or cycling gear?

Yes, thaeks the amazing thing.

The budgie smugglers have stuck

very much in the same way gnat

fishnets have stuck for

Alexander Downer but it doesn't

seem to put Tony Abbott out. He seem to put Tony Abbott out. He

is out there pedalling

around. Never before has an

Opposition Leader had as much

media focus at this. He is the

master at the choreographed

photo opportunity. Of course,

Julia burst onto the scene as

the first female Prime Minister

and really historic picture? Absolutely there is

certainly a vibe ran see. I

enjoyed the colours and the

flowers. But there is an energy and that's what we are trying and that's what we are trying

to do. You're trying to capture

emotion and share that. On days

like that you can't but help

soak it up. Two features that

people concentrate on Julia,

the nose and the hair? The

nose, the hair and the

derriere. Is it fair to draw

herder yeah? Things were

happening so quickly, poor Julia Gillard didn't get the

opportunity for a honeymoon opportunity for a honeymoon period. Cartoonists were

scrambling like RAF pilots and

the sirens going off and

drawing flat out. As I said

before you need to be equally

unfair to everyone. Gentlemen,

it's been a pleasure trying to

sum up the last 10 years. Thank

you very much for taking the

time this morning. Thank you,

Mike. I have something for us,

ready?

SONG: # Happy birthday to us,

happy birthday to us

# Happy birthday insiders,

happy birthday to us

# And Barrie too # It's

definitely back to you,

Barrie. Wait for your 21st!

We'll go further down memory

lane in just a moment. Final

observation in the

meantime? You will have to be

quick. 2001, the rate of boat

arrivals in it country was 43

boat and 5,516 people. The next

year, 2002, one boat, year, 2002, one boat, one

person. So far this year, 28

boats, 1620 people. All the

discussion on the carbon tax,

it's important not to overlook

the terrible murders in Mumbai

this week. India's a great

friend of Australia,, an

important ally a very important

democracy. We wish all the

Indians well. I think on the

occasion of Insiders' 10th birthday it's important to

raise a coffee cup to the

viewers. I think in this kind

of period of divisive and

difficult debate the fact there

are still so many people

prepared to engage in the

debate, watch programs like

this is a terrific thing. And

to the panel, too, for being so

disciplined and agreeable for

so long. This is going to sound

so trite. Hawker Briton has

done an analysis of how the

inld pejts have voted so far.

Andrew Wilkie hasn't missed one

division of this Parliament.

Bob Katter has missed about

half of them. I don't know what that

that means. I thought it was

interesting. I leave you now

with a little more nostalgia. Some memories of the program

from when we first went to air

on 15 July, 2001. Thanks for

watching, thanks for watching

for a decade now. Bye.

SONG: # Please don't stop the

music # Good morning and

welcome to Insiders, the

morning after a crucial

by-election in Melbourne. I

believe that the government is

well and truly back in the

game. Observation or a

prediction, one at a time. One

of the most convincing acts of

lunacy I have seen in some lunacy I have seen in some time, people mutually back stab

each other to death. Tearing up

the old idea of the brown rice

and mentals party. Hoe into

that swordfish and tell me what

you think of it. Am I able to answer? Who could stop you. Depends on the phases of

the moon. Don't be shy about

this issue. this issue. I'm photographer

for Fairfax Group

newspapers. You saw John

Howard, he was like a rabbit in

the spotlight. There were times

when John Howard when his

eyebrows do this n a cartooning

way. Normally his eyebrows are

like this. Normally - sometimes

they're like this. He wants a

big changeover. For that to occur, he can't keep

waiting? I'm quite happy to be

the Treasurer. I've been the

trerk now for 5.5

trerk now for 5.5 years. If

he's not discussing it with Peter Costello he'd hardly discuss it with you. You never

know! Don't panic! Didn't you

see the Peter Costello edition.

It was panic! Would you run to

the speaker if Bronwyn Bishop

blew you a kiss across the

chamber? I think I would die!

The people you've really got to

watch out for in this game are

those who try to make a fetish of their

of their innocence. Those poor

kids at that playground going

mummy who's that strange man

talking about fetishes?

Stockholm sin grom? Did you

feel like you were the captive

and you start to like them? Who

are you going to trust to keep

the economy strong? To keep interest rates low?

How about the weapons of

mass desphruks? Are they under

you or? For me, it'd be you or? For me, it'd be health,

education, the age and the

environment and I think Bob

Brown's my man. Cheers.

Amazing who you will go home

with after a couple of glasses

of bubbly. I think it's been a

good year, except for the

election. I want Insiders team

ponchos for next year. I don't

think the ABC budget will run

to that. That's all they're

getting a small step in the

right direction? Cut it out.

We've just made a change. Fair

crack of the whip. We fired up

a barbie to look at some of a barbie to look at some of the hot issues that happened this

year, 2005. Oh the script's

gone. What are we gonna do?

Snoop n Insiders, political personality of the year 2005,

snrt Barnaby Joyce. You must be

very excited? Looks awfully

like a poisoned chalice. I'm

sure the Prime Minister will

invite me round for a cup of

tea and a good flogging. What

I'm saying is this: you cannot

call a relationship between a

man and a man and a woman and a

woman or a man and a dog or his

cat or his goat a marriage. Oh

Piers! That's dis gusting. Are

you seriously calling - that is

simply disgusting. A man and a

goat? Whatever the sometimes

manic activity in the

Parliament in was the political image that carried the

week. It's Craig Moore. What a

piece! We're Talking Pictures with Bill Leak,

with Bill Leak, the cartoonist

for the 'Australian'. He won't

get out of bed for less than

$10,000. Do you see yourself

in that plight? Australia's

most disgraced senator. I did

enjoy the Middle Eastern

kiss. (Laughs)

You have seen off Turnbull

there. You can now have the

reshuffle. If you'd done it a

couple of weeks ago he might've

got the votes on you. Hmm. Les

Patterson saying give this man

the gold bloody Walkley. You

have publicly apologised but I

still have to ask, what were

you thinking? I want to know

what Glenn's migration

medication was. I won't be

taking it. This constant talk

of Kevin Rudd's popularity is

starting to hey the --

annoy senior ministers. I was enormously popular. enormously popular. I only hope

Kevin Rudd suffers the same

fate I did. As the political

chief cartoonist, it's been a

wonderful week. It's a very

dedicated, serious, federal political program. Kevin Rudd

had too much to drink and went

to a strip club in New York, I

guess my question to you, Glenn

Milne, is is the newspaper

editor in trouble? At the

outset, I've never been to a

strip club. I did go to a

tattoo parlour once after being

on the tiles but I never went

through it with it. You can

act like a jilted lover or you

can ask me whatever political

questions you've got.

I accept full responsibility

for the coalition's defeat. Oh

look, what's the point of going

back over the last 12 months?

We can't revive that. It's all

over. Is the country ready for a Prime Minister called Kev

question of? If Kevin's name

was no good he would've changed

it to Margaret. Might you have

to remind him of who's the

boss?? Look, Barrie, we are so

blessed to have someone like

Malcolm Turnbull in our ranks.

They don't know whether they're

Arthur or Mar