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(generated from captions) the drink on purpose. Yes. that she seemed to spill referred to was not Heather Badcock But the 'she' that Primrose but Marina Gregg. It was really the perfect murder. I haven't touched it yet. Have this, why don't you? Oh, I couldn't. I've had far too much already. Please do. She wanted Heather Badcock dead. MARPLE: And a few minutes later, she was. afraid someone had seen, But then she was afraid, and could see only one way out - had been aimed at her. to insist that the murder She gave the performance of her life. Jason! And only one person saw through it. This is only a theory. don't you, Mr Rudd? But you know it's the truth, from the first. You know, because you knew Miss Gregg? Can you imagine my disappointment, What did the doctor say it was? but I didn't feel really ill... German measles to prove MARPLE: She would go to any lengths that she was the intended victim, her own coffee. even down to doctoring That was her, wasn't it, Mr Rudd? Yes, I thought so. but you didn't realise You were frantic to protect her to protect her from. how much you would have of hushing up one death... It was not only a question of Ella Blunt... ..but also the death the right person to blackmail, ..who finally found thanks to Primrose Dixon. (Phone rings) ELLA: (I saw you do it.) in the glass.) (I saw you put the tablets the agony you've been through I'm very sorry for you, Mr Rudd, because you care for her so much. to your wife. Mr Rudd, I need to speak I'm afraid that won't be possible. excuses for her any longer. It's all over, sir. You can't make Now where can I find her? In her bedroom, Inspector. She died last night in her sleep. That's right. An overdose? In my opinion, yes. Was it an accident? But it could be suicide? It could but it's most unlikely. have given it to her? Or someone could Almost impossible to prove. Doctor? You'll excuse me. and such a wonderful gift. Such a beautiful creature let go of the past How sad that she couldn't and see the future as it really was. she took an overdose. It's very fortunate the only escape left. Death was really Yes, Mr Rudd, very fortunate indeed. She was so lovely... ..and she had suffered so much. Closed Captions by CSI ? Theme music to a fresh, new look for Compass, Hello. And welcome our season's programs for 2011. as we launch stories lined up for you, We have some terrific all through the year. and I hope to have your company a little different - But first, to something produced by the Compass team, a new six-part series by my colleague Scott Stephens, but presented and Ethics Editor for ABC Online. who's the Religion Now, Scott's been on a bit of a quest the deeper things of life to talk about about their beliefs, with some better-known Australians that they say have shaped them. and the experiences real surprises here from And there are some but you may not really. people whom you think you know, Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton, They include Matt Preston, Philip Nitschke and Rolf de Heer. Julian Morrow, Clare Bowditch, So, without further ado, our new series, Life's Big Questions, I'd like to introduce and its presenter, Scott Stephens. What makes a good life? I'm fascinated by the big questions, As a theologian, Australians to open up, so I'm asking prominent they think is the meaning of life. and reflect on what I'm Scott Stephens. Hello. And welcome. With me is Masterchef's Matt Preston. Not only has he been at the forefront biggest television juggernauts, of one of Australia's a Logie for Best New Talent. but he scored a renowned food critic, But as well as being has an Honours degree in politics, this father of three did a stint as a punk musician. has been a DJ even about the deeper meaning of food, I'm going to be asking Matt delectable but deadly sins - and about and those greed and pride. lust, envy, gluttony, You're welcome. So, Matt, welcome. that all sins stem from pride Thomas Aquinas said oneself into a god. because pride makes wide open to pride? Does fame leave you I think it can do. to deal with if you're young. I think it's incredibly hard to deal with if you're not anchored. I think it's incredibly hard hard to deal with I think it's incredibly yourself with good people. if you're not surrounding great thing to me the other day. One of my editors said this why you've kept grounded He said, Matt, the reason surrounding yourself with yes-men, is because rather than yourself with no-women. you've surrounded who tell me, you're being a dick. And I've got lots of people Let's talk about your childhood, (Laughs) played in your upbringing. and maybe the role that religion in a Catholic family. Well, I was brought up take me to church every Sunday. My mother would school at the age of 12, I was sent Benediction boarding and I had 5-6 years there. you're surrounded by novitiates, You're being taught by monks, you're surrounded by novices, religious kind of beast that exists, you're surrounded by this whole a fascinating experience. and that was were things like the retreats And the things that we all enjoyed which is, you know...? and things like going to Vespers, Oh, yes. of the end of the day, That lovely thing beautiful, different playing chant, sitting there and this in an environment... and being alone with yourself spiritual empty than they are full. I think churches are probably more is the way I feel. I think that probably at that stage as being religious? Did you regard yourself Did you believe in God? The God question. I find it hard to believe in a man with a long, white beard. And I know it's easy to kind of... But whether I believe that there are positive and negative forces in this world - absolutely. And whether there's a life outside the empirically proved life that we have - of course, yes, absolutely. I have no vision of what that is, but whether there's a kind of a force for good or a force for evil - yes, I kind of think I've had enough experience in my life that makes me think there is, yes. When you look at your life to date... Mm. ..are you struck by a sense of gratitude, thankfulness for what's happened? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Do you ever thank God? I do have moment when I sit there, and I appreciate what has happened to me in a manner that is actually kind of reflective. And whether it's karma or whether or whether it's God, or how you get there, sort of is unimportant, but it's not... I don't think it's me. But there's definitely, you know...? The whole getting of the role on Masterchef was so not normal. It wasn't, we'll look through the critics, we take the list of critics, Matt's one of the critics - it's because the person who was casting the show, her mother-in-law worked with my mother back in England 35 years ago, and they were mates, and, you know? I should ring that Matt, ring Jennifer's son because he's involved with food, and have a chat with him about what chefs you should talk to for your new show. And so the phone call came from that basis. Now, that's an out-there route that things come from. I think often things come in that basis. Do you look at these serendipitous moments that you've had as maybe even suggesting the hand of God? (Sighs) I would suggest this. The whole essence of faith is you never know, and so, it's never as obvious as that. There's not a note saying, 'By the way, enjoy this one. Love, the big G.' You know? Wouldn't that be good? Be nice to have that. Do I think I'm being nudged by something, whether it's God or whether it's a force of positivity - whatever we call it? Then, yeah, I think there has to be. But again, do I sit there on a spiritual basis and go, I think I need to go to church and say thank you? Um, probably not, no. So, does religion play any role in your life now? Religion, no. People do. I think spirituality does. I think the whole... essence for me is that I love this notion of a code for living, which to me, seems to me what religion is largely about. Those commandments are fantastic, and that Christian code for living is a fantastic way of respecting other people... And you see it in Masterchef. You see all those things, you know? We don't kill anyone. (Chuckles) We respect their mother and father. Which I think manifests itself often as good manners, in an old-fashioned way. I think manners are the rent you pay for your space on the earth. I think they underpin everything. That's really important. 20 years, 15, 10 years ago, I wouldn't have said that. But I've realised now that all those times your mother, your grandmother, your father, you know... ..said to say thank you, do this, do that, it's really important - it's a way of showing respect and respect for other people. Simple as that. For me, life is more about little spoonfuls and small steps, rather than big gestures. I think those are the things that keep the world turning. I'm just curious though, by your initial contrast. Not religion, but people do. Was religion just such a private, deeply personal thing? Because for many people, religion is a deep experience of community, of many of the habits that you've just described. I can see religion's role as a community, but I can also see religion's role as isolating a community, as well. If I sit with a taxi driver, and I discuss what he ate, where he likes to eat, what his mother cooked him, I'd feel a sense of community that's far greater than if I engaged with a debate about his religious beliefs. And I can have that conversation, and that sense of community regarding bread, with someone from... the other day, an Assyrian Christian. It may come up in conversation. Assyrian Christian, a Sikh taxi driver, a Muslim taxi driver. It starts becoming... It's no longer those barriers, and that's the beautiful thing about food - it breaks down those barriers. Just the way that you're talking, it sounds like you once had faith, but... Oh, yeah, no... ..but lost it? No, I think I've probably still got faith. I think that's the irony. I kind of believe that if everything went awful tomorrow. and I lost my job, it would kind of all be good. Who's gonna look after me, why it's gonna happen, how it's gonna happen, flummoxes me. I don't there's a bloke in a big, white beard sitting there and going, alright, he's lost his job - what can we do? I find it hard to visualise that kind of image, I suppose. What I haven't thought is if it goes the other way. That obviously, if I do something terrible, will there be punishment coming that other way? That's something I've not thought about. As a young a man, you seem to be very restless. What is that gave you a sense of purpose, even vocation, in your life? I think at the beginning it was hedonism. Searching for the next pleasure hit, the next enjoyment, the next excitement. I think there was a sense of wanting to be... Growing in London in kind of '77, wanting to be at the centre of things. In terms of my early working years, we would go out a lot - we'd go and see lots of bands, we'd go to lots of clubs, and it would it was quite... But you realise after a while that that doesn't, you know...? For me, one of those moments is I went to see Pink Floyd, and we got into the Royal Box at Wembley Stadium. There are 90,000 people seeing Pink Floyd. The Royal Box - not just the Royal Box, but the front of the Royal Box. There are gold gilt chairs with red velvet cushions. We got to sit on one of those. We're in the best seat in the house. And it was like, yeah. But it wasn't a very good concert, so we left. (Laughs) Often the stuff you search and attain for... The stuff you search for most intensely and then you attain, you realist actually ain't that important. And there's that moment where you go, well, does that make those previous five years of doing that important or unimportant? No, because sometimes the journey is what it's about, and not the destination. You just get to the destination and go, OK, I'm here now - what now? But there also those nights where you go round to mate's house, and you talk about nothing. but you just laugh the whole time. That to me... They're not things you can search to attain - they're things that happen. And in a way, maybe that's what makes them so good. So, why are you here on earth? I suppose the only reason you can justify being on earth is to try and make things a little bit better - to do something along the way, and I suppose, be nice to other people. And food is one of the great ways to be nice to people without saying it. Things you find quite hard to say, you can say with that casserole, you know? Or them coming round for dinner. And I'm sure that's the reason why when someone's husband dies, then someone turns up with the tea and sympathy, with the lamb casserole. The first date revolves around the food - it doesn't revolve around the discussion about whether you're gonna get married. Let's broaden things out a little bit, and talk about meaning of life. What's your philosophy of life? Philosophy of life? Have you got a guiding principle or guiding principles? I do have a series... And they've been aphorisms I've picked up, I suppose, over the years. One of my first ones was... I think was lucky enough to dinner with a guy called Frederick Forsyth, who wrote a book called Day Of The Jackal. And Forsyth's great advice was never dismiss anyone. Always listen to what other people have to say, because you never know where the next great germ of an idea comes from. And he talked about this idea that some of the best ideas for plot development or solutions to plot problems, did not come from talking to other great writers - they came the milkman, you know? The woman at the end of the shop. Those flashes rose and came from everywhere. I think that's really important... And that's resonated with you? Yeah, absolutely. I write about food for a living, which invariably means going and eating with someone. My best lines are not my lines - they invariably come from the person on the other side of the table. I taste this tomato, I see my grandmother. And that says everything about their childhood, that relationship. You have the image of them as a small child picking the tomatoes from the vine with the grandmother. That's a such a powerful five words. However you want to define spirituality, what has been your most spiritual moment? Trying to think if I've got one. That would be good if I could remember one of those - one that suddenly came flashing back. Um... I don't think I spend my time looking or engaging in that way. I don't see spirituality as something that comes in waves or crashes... that you suddenly find it. I kind of think you find it just in... ..everyday life, in terms of just how people treat you or the the little gestures maybe, I think. My friend who's a teacher in a really tough, inner-city school, who goes in day after day to do it, not because she's well paid, not because she particularly enjoys it - because she thinks it's important to do. I those things to me, they're the little things, but they those are kind of the important things, rather than the television star flying out with the great, big Hercules airliner full of aid for a small Afghan village. Let's go back for a moment. The Seven Deadly Sins. Yep. So, Matt, how are you resisting the devil and all his works? I think when it comes down to the Seven Deadly Sins, I'm prone to... gluttony, greed, gluttony, gluttony, greed, lust, sloth, bit more sloth, some more greed and some gluttony - not some much the envy. Unless someone's got a really good plate on the other side of the table. If I'm going to sin, I'd rather sin in the world of lust, sloth, gluttony, greed please. Since you bring it up, lust is something over which we have no control. Are there things...? Course we've got control - that's ridiculous, and look... Are things in your life though, in the face of which you feel powerless? No. No, no, no. Oh, cheese. (Laughs) Other than that no, because... And look, this is the weird thing, OK? Here is the weird thing about television. Or the weird thing about fame. Fame puts a glamour on people. The whole universe - not your friends, not your family. We all stay in the same place, and everyone else 10m that way. And it becomes a different world because people look at you differently, they perceive you differently, they're interested in talking with you. You're talking to me here, and I'm the same person that I was two years ago, but you wouldn't have come and asked me on this show then. And so, you know, the suggestions, the offers, the temptations dramatically change. I'm a fat, 49-year-old man, you know? I shouldn't have 26-year-old girls wanting to talk to me. To be brutal, that shouldn't be the case. It is not the natural way of things, and so you have to remind yourself it's not real. Hm. Are you a good man? Um, I'm trying to be. Am I succeeding? No. Do you ever succeed being a good man? I don't think that's something you can judge. I think that's something that has to be judged after you've gone by people who knew you, and by the general scheme of things. But I think you have to try to be. That's kind of really my philosophy - just try and be a good man. And if you're not a good man, try again tomorrow. Yeah, I think that's probably it, actually. Thank you. (Laughs) I'll write that one down. OK. When you succumb to temptation... Mm-hm. ..where do you go for redemption? Where do you try to find it? Um... ..I think you know what your temptations are. I think we all know what our weaknesses are - if we're honest with ourselves, we know - and the aim is to not put yourself in that situation. If your weaknesses are smoking vast amounts of marijuana, you probably don't want to be popping up to Nimbin, you know? Or you certainly don't want to be going to Amsterdam. The beautiful about the world is there's so many options and so many alternatives, that you don't have to go and do that - there are other things you can do. So, where do you not place yourself? Where do I not place myself? Um, I try not to place myself in dairies. (Giggles) I try and avoid vast quantities of cheese. I was in Spain recently, and I'd been really pretty good in Spain, and I went to this restaurant, and there was not a cheese board, but a cheese table - a table of cheese so big that it took three men to carry it. And they'd carry it round the tables. They'd leave there, and they'd carry it to the table over there. They set it down behind my guest's back - just behind you. And it sat there, and there were 40 chesses, from the world's stinkiest... And it wafted over. And I started being really good, and, I ended with a big cheese plate. And I felt guilty. But I had that kind of guilt of, I don't know, like being a 20-year-old and down the pub, and you go home with the wrong girl, and wake up the next morning, and feel pretty bad at what you've done but it was still fun. Mm. So, I think the cheese board has become my cheap pick-up, my cheap one-night-stand these days. Let's go beyond these deadly sins themselves, and talk about their consequences. Mm. Who do you need forgiveness from? Oh. We don't have long enough. (Laughs) See, I come from a Catholic background, so I'm lucky. I can get forgiveness any time I want - I just go down the confessional, say I'm sorry and then I'm forgiven, so it's alright, isn't it? That's OK. In Christian teaching, forgiveness isn't something that simply happens in the privacy of one's heart, but it's also a gift that someone gives to somebody else, so, who do you need to forgive? Well, I hope that I don't need to forgive anyone, because I hope already have in a way. But having said that, what I love about this conversation is of course, I'll now get a large number of emails from people reminding me of who I need to ask forgiveness from. And I think that's the other thing - prevarication is my... If I had an eighth deadly sin to nominate, that would be mine. It would be prevarication - about not doing it now. And one things I've tried to myself do is do it now. Have you have been betrayed? Oh, yeah, lots, yeah. Yeah. But again, that's not... Not lots - that's terribly melodramatic. A few times, but I think... Life's too short to stew on those sort of things. If someone does something wrong, you note it down in a book, you don't put yourself in that situation again, you get on with your life. You can't let those kind of actions change who you are, and change the way you behave, and become more enclosed, or less open - you've got to maintain that openness otherwise you're going to close yourself off from so many good things. Have you been guilty of betrayal? Yeah, and it's an interesting one. I'd argue whether by moving to Australia, and leaving my mother in England, whether that was an act of betrayal. I think I'd have to ask that question because it was selfish, I'm still here. I think it's been great - my mother's come out here and she's made lots of friends - but that act in itself was primarily a selfish act. What do you love? Family, friends, football, food. Basically anything beginning with F seems to be the secret for that. Yeah, I think... And life. I think that's it. My father was a naval journalist for all his life. He worked writing about his hobby, and the great gift that he gave myself, my two sisters, is this knowledge that you don't... If you possibly avoid it, don't do something you don't love, because to wake up in the morning and to know that today we're going to go to Perth and look at goat's cheese, it's exciting, you know? It's brilliant. So, I love my life, and that's... I feel very privileged being in that situation, and being able to say that, 'cause I lot of people don't find themselves in that situation, and through no fault of their own. What do you hate? Creme de Menthe. (Chuckles) Hate - horrid world. Should be banned from the language. I try not to hate anything. I try and appreciate, if not the intrinsic positives, why other people might like it. And I think that's important. You know? Just 'cause you don't get something, doesn't mean you should hate it. You should make an effort to understand it, then if it's not for you, say it's not for me, but hate - terrible word, far too much of it around, and in this current world we live in, hate is the enemy of manners. We're on our final stretch now. Suppose there's a God, and there is a Heaven. Mm-hm. What do you think God will say to you when you get there? Should've done better. I think probably. I think there's always... The beautiful thing about striving to be a good man, is you can always do better. And I think that's one of the things that keeps you going. That again, it's not the destination. The destination is the box. It's the journey along the way, and it's what you do on that journey that's important. Or maybe he'll say, 'Do you know a good recipe for Putanesca?' (Chuckles) In which case... Don't know why he'd be Italian, but I have a feeling he'd like Putanesca. I think it'll be a long conversation. And I have a feeling it would probably the sort of conversation you had with your headmaster at the end of a particularly bad term. Because, you know, they'd be sitting there going, well... I don't get the impression that God sits there and goes, well done, well done, well done. Maybe this is an issue about a Catholic upbringing, but there's a perception that God's a bit thou shall not, and not thou shalt. And I think God's a bit of the taskmaster. Maybe his son was a bit more of the positive guy, a bit more of kind of the hippie. Maybe I'll have the bad conversation with him, and then go and have the nice conversation with Jesus and the Holy Spirit down the pub. (Chuckles) From that perspective, God says to you, 'You should've tried harder'. What could you have done better? Oh, look, I think we all have to ask ourselves whether sitting in a television studio's the best use of our time. Honestly. You know? If we're being really brutal. So, I think that would probably be the question. Another one should be whether I should be working for Medecins Sans Frontieres, or whether I should be actually going back to India, and trying to make that change there. I think those are probably the questions that you would ask that you could have done better. My life is not a life that... And most of lives aren't. It's not life that's sacrificed for the good of less fortunate people than ourselves, so I think if I was to truly be a good man, it would be you'd have to totally redraw the book. You know? And it would have to be something totally selfless. But that's a really high bar, and because of that, those people who achieve that should be held in far greater esteem than anyone who's on television just eating food. As part of your conversation, what do you think you would say back to God? Should have done better. If God exists - and I'm not buying the whole free will thing. If God exists and he's omnipresent, that maybe he should have picked up on. Rwanda, probably doesn't look very good on God's CV. Neither does genocide. It's a big question, why you don't get involved in the Holocaust? These are big questions, and I think that whole free will thing... It's not the sort of argument that Kerry O'Brien would allow you to get away with. So, that would be my immediate reaction. I kind of think if your first reaction that moment when you're absolutely sure that there is a God, is not to tell him what he's done wrong - it's actually to go, oops, and actually say, 'Should've done better.' But about yourself - not about him. Matt Preston, thank you. Thank you very much, indeed. Next week on Life's Big Questions, I'm joined by comedian and television producer Julian Morrow. Lives exist and we weave meaning into them. I've certainly done things which have upset, disappointed, appalled or hurt people. I think Jesus was not a bad bloke, you know? Julian Morrow, my guest next Sunday on Life's Big Questions. Closed Captions by CSI # Every day! Every day! # Every day Every day... # What, what, what, what! HE ULULATES Oww! Oh, they will not be able to resist us tonight. LAUGHTER SIREN WAILS IN BACKGROUND HUBBUB CHANTING See the world - the world's a bad, bad place full of bad, bad people. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I did what I did, you get me? I still sleep, I'm still eating out. I'm normal. You know? See the boy - he was a troublemaker, a well-known scum. So me, I just... I just nailed him to the deck. Bam, downtown. You get me? Yeah, I get ya. I like your honesty. Lots of boys kicked him but he had it coming, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I like what I'm hearing. You ain't heard nothing, bruv. Cos I set him on fire! I heard you set him on fire! I set him on fire, bitch. I arsoned his arse. I took him, I shook him, I decked him and I necked him, you know. Sometimes...the only way to deal with these people is to kill them, you know? By the way, this is some good grub. You must be kind of flush, dred. Yeah, I'm feeling generous today. Well, I'm not a speed freak, don't think that, bruv. It's not the ice that makes me fight, you know. I'm a professional. You want someone hurt, you've come to the right place. So have you. You're kidding me? No, my name's Moses Jones. I'm a detective. Moses Jones? That's a fucked-up name, dred. Now stop calling me "dred". I call everyone dred, dred. Well, I ain't Jamaican. Neither am I. Exactly. Fuck! Oi, stand there! Stay still. Stand still, stay there, don't move. Don't move. OK. OK, bye. Cab four, pick up. Cab four, come back. PHONE RINGS Younis, where are you? Younis? Wait your turn. Wait your turn! MAN OVER RADIO: Yes, Joe. At last. Just a crazy man. Platform two, Victoria. OK. Hey, Joe... He stinks, man.