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Live. Tonight - top dollar, the

Greens advocate a $1 maximum

bet on poker machines. It

doesn't have the big cost

associated with mandatory

commitment upfront and it

doesn't have the issue that the clubs campaign say is a

problem, which is the notion of

a licence to punt. But the

clubs ramp up their campaign

against any reform to pokie

legislation. My member clubs

have authorised me to spend $9.5 million on this campaign.

Look, we would sell tables and

chairs in our office to fight

this campaign, because we know

it won't help problem gamblers

and we know it will decimate

our industry.

Good evening. Welcome to

'Lateline'. I'm Ali Moore.

Pokie reform may be the next

thing on the Government's

agenda, but in reality it's

still recovering from an

historic week in parliament.

The carbon tax passed the lower

house, a big win for the

Government, but it had to then

endure a humiliating backdown

over offshore processing of

asylum seekers. Amendments to

the Migration Act were pulled

before they could be voted down

in the House, meaning the Malaysian Solution is dead and

the Government has been forced

to embrace onshore processing

as its only option. We could

work with them and if the Prime

Minister recall s Parliament,

as she should, on Monday or

Tuesday, it would take 15

minutes to move an amendment

that would give the Prime

Minister 146 countries through

which she could carry out

offshore processing, including

Papua New Guinea and including

Nauru. What they're saying is

that if you are a signatory to

the UN Refugee Convention, it's

okay. Well, Iran is a

signatory to the UN Refugee

Convention, and so is Somalia,

so Somalia is fine, but

Malaysia is not. The Minister

for Trade, Craig Emerson, and

Opposition Spokesman on Climate

Action and Environment, Greg

Hunt, join us shortly, to

discuss what was an

extraordinary week in politics.

First our other headlines.

Ready for takeoff - Qantas engineers suspend industrial

action. The silent killer

that's robbing Mount Isa of its

young people. And the new

leading contender for the

Republican nominee in the 2012

Presidential Election. Another

flank has opened in the fight

over problem gamblers and poker

machines. As an alternative to

Andrew Wilkie's and the Government's policy of

mandatory pre-commitment, the

Greens want to cap machines at

$1 per spin. Clubs, pubs and

casinos are still opposed and

are gearing up for a public

relations assault in Labor's

most marginal electorates.

Karen Barlow reports. This

licence to play the pokies the

Feds are talking about, that's

a bit of a worry. This campaign

by the clubs has been biting.

There's public confusion

surrounding the Federal

Government's plans to tackle

problem gambling. The proposal

to set gambling limits through

Smart kard technology is a

particular sore spot. The

clubs have spent a lot of money

trying to confuse the issue.

The licence to punt notion has

put some doubt in people's

minds. Now there are reports of

a $40 million fund by clubs,

hotels and casinos to fight the

pokie reforms. Community

funding from clubs and pubs

will dry up. It's a marginal

Labor seat campaign.

'Lateline' has seen a list of

the Queensland, NSW and

Victorian seats about to be

targeted. I do think people

will ask the question, if

they've got $40 million to

spend on that campaign, doesn't

that tend to indicate that some

of the claims we are hearing

about the profitability of

venues aren't quite right? All

the sources of the $40 million

campaign have not been

confirmed, but Woolworths is

contributing $250,000, and

Clubs Australia is submitted.

My member clubs have

authorised me to spend $9.5

million on this campaign.

Look, we would sell tables and

chairs in our office to fight

this campaign, because we know

it won't help problem gamblers

and we know it will decimate

our industry. But theed Federal

Government, independent MP

Andrew Wilkie and Independent

Senator Nick Xenophon are

determined. No matter how much

money they spend, they'll never

win this fight. We will do

what is right and I am

concerned about the

circumstances of problem

gambling. The Federal

Government's gambling reforms,

negotiated with Andrew Wilkie,

would have venues committing to

or changing to low-intensity

poker machines, with a maximum

single bet of $1. If a venue

wants to allow higher bets,

then the machines would be

subject to pre-commitment

technology. Gamer s would be

barred from betting once

they've lost a pre-nominated

amount of money. That's what

the clubs have been fighting.

You don't help a problem

gambler by giving them a gambling card. That's what

people need to wake up to. Now

the Greens are trying to

simplify things. They want to

bring down the maximum Of $5 a

spin in Victoria and Tasmania

and $10 everywhere else to just

$1 a spin across the board. It

doesn't have the big cost

associated with mandatory

commitment upfront and it

doesn't have the issue that the clubs campaign say is a

problem, which is the notion of

a licence to punt. The Greens

say they've costed the

proposal, which will involve

software adjustments to

existing machines, as somewhere

between $25 and $50 million,

with retrofitting old poker

machines and bringing in new ones, clubs say the Greens'

proposal is just as expensive

as the current reforms. We

think the cost of this could be

around $3 billion, just as it

is for mandatory pre-commitment. That would be

an outlay that would not help

problem gamblers. Clubs also

say the cap will prolong the

problem, with expectations

gamblers will just blow the

same amount of money over a

longer period. Anyone who

knows anything about problem

gamblers will know they will

continue to gamble until

they've spent their money.

These jokers in the pokies

lobby and the clubs in

particular are just amazing in

the excuses they come up with.

This is not a reason they put

up until today. The $1 spin

proposal had been championed by

Nick Xenophon for years and it

was Andrew Wilkie's starting

point in negotiations with the

Federal Government. Both men

and the Government are standing

by their plans for mandatory

pre-commitment technology. I'm

with Andrew Wilkie on this,

because what Andrew has done is

to put an important issue on

the agenda that otherwise would

have been swept under the

carpet. Andrew negotiated it in good faith with the

Government and came up with

this hybrid model. Andrew

Wilkie says the Greens'

proposal dovetails with his and

the Government's reforms, which

he and the Government have

tonight stressed have not changed in any way.

changed in any way. The Prime

Minister and Opposition Leader

have engaged in a round of

blame game over who's

responsible for the

Government's failure to secure

legislative approval for the offshore processing of asylum

seekers. The political defeat

of the Malaysia Solution means

a return to onshore processing,

an outcome both sides say they

don't want. Political correspondent Tom Iggulden

reports from Canberra. The

minority Government

roller-coasters off on another

jaunt. The Government has been

left promoting an onshore processing policy it doesn't

want - What has always driven

me is my belief in strong

border protection. - the

Opposition's opposing a policy

it's long supported - It's not

the Opposition's job to support

bad policy. - and the Greens

are celebrating a result they

did little to bring about. We

have always held this was the right way for Australia to go. The Opposition and the

Government both want offshore

processing. Each says the

other could have it by

supporting their legislation.

Which would enable him, if he

was ever Prime Minister, to do

what he has said he believes is

the best thing to do. I mean,

how crassly political and

destructive can you get? She stubbornly and arrogantly

insisted that it had to be her

way or no way. It was never

going to be her way and she had

no plan B. It was suggested to

Julia Gillard today that Bob

Brown is the real Prime

Minister. It's just a stupid

description, John. Let's - no,

well, it's just wrong. A more

realistic threat is Kevin Rudd.

She was also asked today about

the kiss that sealed her

victory on the carbon tax. Oh,

Deborah, what a load of old silliness people are going on

with. You would expect Labor

members to mark the moment and

that's the only thing that

happened. The carbon tax might

be unpopular, but it's about

the best hope Julia Gillard has

for reviving her fortunes. The

asylum seeker issue's a damaging diversion from the Government's campaign to sell

the tax. There are a lot of

businesses out there that want

information about how this is

going to work. I know there's

anxiety out there and we will

keep providing information as

necessary. Tony Abbott's got

some advice of his own. Ladies

and gentlemen, an incoming

Coalition Government's first

instruction to the public

service would be to prepare

legislation to rescind the tax,

and we give businesses fair

warning not to buy forward

permits under a tax regime that

will be closed down. But Kevin

Rudd says Mr Abbott hasn't

explained how he'd repeal the

tax. The sheer cost to

business of dismantling a

scheme which, at the end of the

day, is directly imposed on 500

of our largest companies

against the opportunity cost of

going to what he proposes,

which is a vastly more

expensive scheme for the

Australian taxpayer, I think

would bear heavily on his

mind. The Government's running

out of opportunities to reset its relationship with voters.

They weren't impressed when the

carbon tax was unveiled on

carbon Sunday and now that the

legislation has been passed,

the border protection issue has

undermined whatever bounce

could have been hoped for. It

appears the Prime Minister's

threat to intervene in the

Qantas industrial dispute has

worked. Engineers walked off

the job for four hours in

Sydney this afternoon, causing

more disruptions for

passengers. But they've called off any further industrial

action for the next two weeks,

as they return to the

negotiating table. We think

Qantas were being disingenuous

yesterday when they said 100

flights per week would be

cancelled from our actions.

We've called off all of those actions with plenty of notice.

There's no reason the flights

shouldn't be reinstated. Qantas

has welcomed the temporary

move, but says it doesn't

change the damage done.

Industrial action has also hit

Jetstar, with them refusing to

charge passengers for excess

baggage. It says if the action

continues it may have to

increase fares. Emergency

services have reached the site

of yesterday's plane crash in

Papua New Guinea. The

airline's PNG flight crashed in

dense forest 20km from Madang,

killing 28 people. Four people survived, including the

Australian and New Zealand

pilots. Authorities say the

plane was flying from Lae to

Madang on PNG's north coast

when it went down in stormy

weather. The airline has

grounded its fleet of 12 Dash 8

planes until further

notice. At the end of a very

eventful week in federal

politics, we were joined just a

short time ago for our Friday

night forum by the Minister for

Trade, Craig Emerson in

Canberra and Opposition

Spokesman on Climate Action and

Environment, Greg Hunt, who was

in Melbourne. Gentlemen, thank

you very much for joining

'Lateline' this Friday night.

Pleasure. It's a pleasure,

Ali. Craig Emerson, you first.

It's been a real red-letter

week for the Government, a win

on carbon, a a humiliating backdown on asylum seekers.

How did it come to the

spectacle that we had yesterday

of the Prime Minister calling a

media conference to announce it

was now clear that the

Migration Act amendments would

not pass the Parliament? You'd

in fact known that for weeks,

hadn't you? I hope spring is

eternal and there was a slight

hope Mr Abbott would come to

his senses and actually vote

for offshore processing, because he has declared time

and time again that he supports offshore processing as a

deterrent to people smugglers

and in fact in Government they

supported offshore processing,

but in fact he confirmed that

he was voting for onshore

processing, and that's what

we've got. So that's the

reality. Don't listen to what

Mr Abbott says, just watch what

he does. He says, for example,

he's the steel workers' friend

and voted the day before

against a steel workers' assistance package. The next

day, of course, he indicates

that while he actually supports

offshore processing, he

confirmed he would vote for

onshore processing. Just to go

back to this announcement yesterday, it did seem very

much as if it was all a new

revelation, when in fact you

say hope springs eternal,

you're the Government, not Tony

Abbott, you had carriage of

this, not Tony Abbott. On that

argument, Ali, there is no

obligation on any opposition in

any Australian parliament to behave in the national interest

or to have any regard for the

national interest. Now, what

you make is a political point,

which is, oh, well, oppositions

don't have to vote for

government legislation. Very

often that's true, we might disagree on industrial

relations or on tax. But when

it comes to matters of national

interest, even former Prime

Minister John Howard used to

exhort Labor in opposition to

support legislation, for

example, on national security.

In the national interest, he

did that time and time again

and time and time again, Ali, we supported that

legislation. Greg hupt, the

Prime Minister says more boats

will now come. Have you helped

to put out the welcome mat for

asylum seekers? Well, no, we haven't. I think it's important to remember the

history here. We had a very

effective offshore processing

system. The ALP campaigned

against offshore processing in

. In 2008 they abolished

offshore processing. Since

then, 12,5500 people have come

to Australia. The ALP said

that was all by chance, there

was no pull factor that

resulted from abolishing

offshore processing, and then

they decided in fact offshore

processing is the only

solution. It is the principal solution, along with other

tough measures, but we could

work with them and if the Prime

Minister recalls parliament, as

she should, on Monday or

Tuesday, it would take 15

minutes to move an amendment

that would give the Prime

Minister 146 countries through

which she could carry out

offshore processing, including

Papua New Guinea and including

Nauru. Let me ask you both this

question, because there was

some suggestion this morning

that there was a potential

compromise discussed, and that

is that the Coalition would

agree to allow the amendment

through in return for the

Government agreeing to reopen

Nauru. Can either of you knock

that out of the park or confirm

it? Well, I can. What the

legislation actually does is

talks about offshore processing

generally and leaves it to the

government of the day to

nominate the processing centre

which it thinks is the right

way to go. But there was no compromise along these lines?

None was put to Mr Abbott, and

why would you put any further

compromises to Mr Abbott. You

couldn't be any more

reasonable. I think maybe your viewers don't have this

information yet, so I'm happy

to share it. We did not

prescribe Malaysia. We simply

prescribed offshore processing

in such a way that the

Government of the day, if it

happened to be an Abbott

Government, could - could -

choose Nauru. We didn't ask Mr

Abbott to support Malaysia, we said let's just have

legislation that deals with the

High Court decision. Now Mr

Abbott has this huge dose of

compassion and he says well,

it's all right to have offshore

processing, but only in

countries that are signatories

to the refugee convention. All through the period of the

Howard Government, Nauru

wasn't, and here's a country

that is a signatory to the

refugee convention, and that's

Somalia. That's Somalia. Can

we assume all offshore

processing will be done in

countries that are signatories

to the UN convention, that

Nauru under the Howard wasn't the case when using

Government, as Craig Emerson

points out. That is the very

amendment we've proposed. It

is, by the way, the election

pledge and promise which the

Prime Minister made in July of

last year. She said there

would be no offshore processing

in any country which was other

than a signatory to the UN

convention on refugees. We

have moved one simple

amendment, and that is firstly

to ensure that we have

unequivocal compliance with the

High Court and, secondly, to

ensure that the conditions and

safety and standards of

processing are fully

acceptable. Well, that's just

not true. Enough Craig,

enough. What we have said is

that we will help this

Government, we want to solve this problem, but the Prime

Minister will not solve the

problem and she could solve it

by recalling parliament and in

15 minutes, on Monday or

Tuesday, if she accepts her own amendment, the very condition

which she laid down, we would

have a solution and we would

have finally under this

government offshore processing

because they have never

processed a single person

overseas. Craig Emerson, which

bit is not true? Well, Greg

just said that there would be acceptable standards under

their legislation - under their

amendment. What they're saying

is that if you are a signatory

to the UN Refugee Convention,

it's okay. Well, Iran is a

signatory to the UN Refugee

Convention, and so is Somalia.

So Somalia is fine, but

Malaysia is not. The United

Nations high commission for

refugees says that the

arrangements we put in place

with Malaysia are acceptable,

that Nauru would be

unacceptable, and I reckon I

can guess what the UNHCR, the

High Commission for Refugees would say about Tony Abbott's

option of Somalia. It's absurd. Let Greg Hunt respond

to that. The answer is very

simple. We could have Nauru or

Papua New Guinea. Papua New

Guinea was specifically set down by this Government as an

option. They've announced East

Timor, they've announced PNG,

they've announced Malaysia.

They haven't delivered on any

of them. Surely that's a test

of competency, but with our

amendment and the Prime

Minister has it within her gift

to accept or reject, they could

commence processing on PNG or

Nauru immediately. You've made

that point. How comfortable do

you think Australians are with

the fact it now appears a fact

that very shortly we'll have

more asylum seekers on bridging

visas living and working in the

community as they wait to be

processed? Do you think that

Australians are very

comfortable with that? Well,

my view is that people want to

see a safe border control

system, safe in terms of we

have control over our borders,

at the moment we have just lost

control over our borders, and

secondly they want to see that

people smugglers are put out of

business so there is no risk of

drownings at sea. So you don't

think that Australians will be

comfortable with this?

Individuals will make up their

own mind. We want to give the

Government the opportunity, but they will not take the opportunity because they simply

don't want to be seen to be

processing in Nauru or even

PNG. That is something the

Prime Minister has within her

own gift, but for whatever

reason, she's standing in the

way of a solution. Craig

Emerson, do you think that

Australians will be comfortable

and, if you do, obviously that

begs the question of why

onshore processing was not your

preferred policy option? Well,

I don't disagree with the assessment Greg has just made

as to the aspirations of

Australians. They do want an

orderly immigration program and

they don't want to see people

dying at sea, such as the 45

people who lost their lives at

Christmas Island before

Christmas. What the Leader of

the Opposition has done has

ensured that there will be more

risky voyages and he seeks to

profit politically from it. He

values his own career more

highly than he values human

rights. That's the truth of

the matter. We need to move on. We've discussed that for some

time now. If you win

Government, Greg Hunt, at the

next election Tony Abbott has

given a commitment the

Coalition will repeal the carbon tax legislation. How

are you going to get that

through the Senate? Well, we

will and we can. The reason

why is, I believe, very simple.

Firstly, the next election will

be a referendum on the carbon

tax. The last election could

have been a referendum, but the

Government of course, through

the Prime Minister and the

Treasurer, famously made it

clear there would be no carbon

tax at any time under any

government which they led. The

next election, however, will be

absolutely a referendum on this

issue. On day one we will give

instructions to the public

service to commence the task -

Yes, but referendum or in no referendum, the Senate will

stay the same, won't it? If it

goes to the parliament, which

it will, if we're fortunate to

win, then the result is this:

the ALP will have a choice.

They either stand in the way of

the legislation or they don't.

If they thumb their nose at the

Australian people for a second

consecutive election, then we

will go to a double

dissolution. My belief is that

they will move aside, that they

will hear what the people have

said. There will be a

different leader if they lose

the election, there's no

question about that. Let's ask

Craig Emerson, will you stand

aside, will you capitulate if

there's an election and the

coalition wins No, we won't,

but we won't be an issue

because Mr Abbott won't remove

the carbon pricing regime. The

reason he won't is he'll need

to increase taxes to cut the

age pension, to remove the

trebling of the tax-free

threshold, and remember he said

this week "This one is in

blood". The last time he made

a rock-solid, iron-clad promise

it was to not tamper with the

Medicare safety net before the 2004 election and as soon as

they got re-elected, what did

he do? He tampered with the

Medicare safety net. He won't

remove it. I think both sides

can make the argument about

changing your promises. After

the carbon tax battles and

backdown on asylum seekers is

there really any appetite for

pokie reform, the financial

review claimed today there's a

40 million war chest which will

target Labor MPs in marginal

seats. Is there much appetite?

Well, there is a need for

reform in this area. Productivity Commission report

was initiated and it has

reported that the average loss

for problem gamblers is $21,000

a year. That means in many

cases broken homes, it can mean

domestic violence, it can be a

terrible tragedy. But this reform could be political

suicide, couldn't it? Well, we

don't just get up out of bed

every morning and check the

opinion polls. If we did that,

we wouldn't have pressed ahead

with the reform on carbon

pricing. We know that that's

not popular. We know that in

relation to poker machines

reform is needed. I notice

that the clubs say it won't

work, we'll hurt. We've

offered to trial mandatory commitment, pre-commitment.

We've offered to trial that.

My understanding is that there

may be a positive response to

that, but rather than saying it

won't work, join with us in the

trials. This is a trial that would start before your

deadline from Andrew Wilkie? I

don't know, I don't have for

you the date at which a trial

would start because it hasn't

been agreed. But I think that

there are positive indsications

and I would think that any

organisation that says a

measure won't work should in

all honesty then say "All

right, let's have a look and

see whether it will work or

not." I have to say this too:

in relation to $40 million for

campaigning against marginal

seats, that mightn't be

pleasant, but we're not going

to be in a position where as

soon as an organisation says we

have tens of millions of

dollars and we're going to

throw you out of government, we

cat ip late and walk away from what we believe in the national interest. The Greens have put

forward a compromise today,

abandoned the mandatory precommitment call, they've

also said they'll back the legislation as it stands at the

moment, but this is another

option, abandon the pre-commitment and calling

instead for pokies to be

limited to $1 bets. Of course

that side-steps the whole clubs

campaign against a licence to

punt. Do you support that?

Well, the Greens obviously

wanted the carbon tax. They

wanted onshore processing. So

I have a suspicion they'll

probably get what they want

from the Government on this

one. You gave them onshore

processing. Quite clearly,

there is a genuine issue here

about deep concern, deep issues

of problem gambling. The risk

is that you simply move people

from clubs and pubs into online

gambling, into circumstances

where they have the home, they

have the internet, they have

all of the tools available to

them, but none of the controls.

So what's the solution, in our

view? It is two things:

firstly, a real focus on

individuals, focus and find the

individuals who have the

problems; and, secondly, put in

place tough conditions around

the country on those that

foster problem gamblers. So

those are the two things -

focus on the problem gambler -

Would you support a trial,

though? I haven't looked at

the details, so I'm not going

to give you a false answer on

that. But what I do say -

Well, we don't have detail.

It's a concept. There's a

concept. As a principle? The

two principles that I want to

pursue and we want to pursue

are problem gamblers themselves. Would you support

in principle the idea of a

trial? He won't answer the

question. I am cautious about

anything which is mandatory

across the country which is

simply going to move people

from pubs and clubs to online

situations. As for trials,

people can engage in trials

willingly, I don't have a

problem with that. I do have a

problem with a system which

simply shifts the problem from

being in the public gaze to in

the privacy of the home. All

right. We are out of time. I

have to put one last question

to Craig Emerson. There's a

suggestion in fact that Greens compromise came from the

Government. Can you knock that

one on the head? Yes, I can.

We don't support that proposal

of the $1 limit. Greg Hunt,

joining 'Lateline' tonight. Craig Emerson, many thanks for

Thanks, Ali. Thanks a lot. An

alarming increase in the number

of suicides, particularly among

young indigenous people, in the

Queensland mining town of Mount

Isa has led to calls for mental

health services for rural

communities. State and Federal

Governments have pledged

support for the town, while

grieving workers point to

increased drug use as a factor.

Penny Timms reports. It's a

silent killer and it's robbing

this remote community of its

young people. Statistics from

the 2006 census put Mount Isa's

population at just over 21,000,

yet there have been between 20

and 28 suicides this year

alone. Many of those who died

were under the age of 25. This

isn't normal. We need to find

out what's happening in our

town and to our people

especially. Mount Isa is an

economically strong community.

Mining is its backbone and

provides limitless royalties to

the Government. But residents

are hurting. Health workers

describe it as a poisonous

epidemic. The families of

victims want answers and

Government's help. You know,

we pay a lot of taxes. It

wouldn't hurt for them to do

something for a small place.

You know, everything gets done

in cities, but what about the

small country towns? Are these

lives not as important? Vicki

Prospero's son Mladen Markac

took his own life six months

ago. Izac was one month shy of

his 18th birthday. His mother

says there were no signs that

her son was at risk of suicide.

He was meant to start work on

the Monday. He'd just got a

job. I told him how proud I

was and he said "Yeah, I know,

mum, everything's turning out

good." The next day that was

it. It's believed Izac took

drugs for one of the first

times that night. Ms Prospero

believes that played a

significant role. She hopes

that by speaking out, she will

raise suicide awareness and

prevent more deaths from

occurring. When you're hurting

this bad, you don't want to see

other people suffer like this.

It's very hard to see another

family go through it. Ms

Prospero says she's been

approached by several teens

since Izac's death, all needing

help but not wanting to use

traditional avenues. They go

go to mental health. The kids

don't want to go there, it's

like an institution. They

don't want to go to churches,

where there's also help. They

need something that feels to

them like a place they can

come, talk about their feelings

with each other even. The State

and Federal Governments last

week pledged support during a

forum in the town looking into

suicide. Whether the precise

figure is 23 or something near

it, it's very clear that there

is a very concerning spike in

suicide numbers and it seemed

clear to me from the summit

that Bob Katter organised last

week that the overwhelming at

-risk group is indigenous

Australians living in Mount Isa

and also in some of the

surrounding areas. Mr Butler

says the Government realises it

needs to think outside the

square. Whether there are some investments

investments we can deploy

during the night-time, whether

the old night patrols that used

to exist in Mount Isa or something along those lines. Mount Isa currently

offers a number of mental

health services. They're in

the form of hospital care,

psychiatrists and

psychologists, but Mr Harfer

says they aren't working.

They'd like to see a more contemporary service like head

space open. We're too top

heavy, we're focusing on a lot

of government agencies trying

to deliver clinical services,

now we're trying to focus that

to a community orientated

service The majority of

suicides have been young

indigenous males. They too

believe drugs play a role.

Chroming, the inhaling of dangerous substances, has been

an ongoing issue in Mount Isa

and anecdotal evidence points

to an increased use of drugs

like ecstasy. I think Mount

Isa, Australia, the world in

fact are struggling with - we

probably have the biggest fight

of our lives now because

there's serious drug problems,

they're the hard drugs. The

women want a greater focus on

healing and support. Ms

Craigie says the deaths aren't

only hurting friends and

family, but are destroying a

culture. When we lose our

elders, we lose our past. But

when we lose our young, our

youth, we lose our

future. Getting people to

initiate talk about mental

health can be a challenge. In

fact, one of the main

government health agencies in

Mount Isa was unable to provide

anyone to speak on camera

because none of those on duty had media had media clearance. Elle Vin

harfa agrees it's a painful

subject, but one that needs to

be discussed. There's still a

lot of people very raw and

tender inside. The last

suicide we had was three weeks

ago. There are many more that

have tried to commit suicide

this week alone that our

services have had to

assist. Joining us now for our

Friday night chat about the

economic issues of the week is economics correspondent Stephen

Long. Stephen, welcome.

Another day, another downgrade

of a nation's credit rating,

this time it's Spain. What

does that mean? I don't think

it will mean a terrible lot,

actually, Ali. In this case

it's not unexpected and I don't

think it will be catastrophic.

It's really telling us what we

already knew about Spain, but

the underlying dynamics are a worry, basically another

country downgraded, which means

banks holding bonds have to

raise more capital, that the

cost of funding those countries

goes up and the whole spiral

continues. Of course the G20

Finance Ministers are meeting

again. Are they making any

progress at all on the various

rescue plans we've talked about

over recent weeks? The details

of the latest rescue plan - I

use that term advisedly - have

pretty much leaked out. It

seems what is going to be

announced is that they're

looking at a bigger hair cut

for the banks that hold Greek

bonds, 21% initially they

agreed to, they'll be looking

at up to 60% losses on those

bond holdings. That's essentially an organised

default, isn't it, really? It

is. It's clearly a default.

Already it's a joke to say that

Greece isn't in default. It is

in default. This is going to

be an organised default on

Greece's debt. Then they're

talking about increasing the

capital that banks have to hold

against government debt or

sovereign debt to almost double

what was agreed to when they

did the stress testing of banks

about their exposure. That

will mean that banks have to

raise hundreds of billions more

Euros to cover this and the

question is where does that

money come from? Well, they're

beefing up this European

financial stability facility,

putting more money into it, but

you can see that really the

bank losses are going to take a

fair bit of the money even in

this beefed-up facility. What

they're going to do then to try

to make it all work, because

they have to guarantee

governments as well through

this, they'll guarantee the

first part of losses on any

government debt, about 20%, the

rest comes from the private

sector. Now, that's

essentially a confidence trick,

because if any of the major

countries get into trouble,

Italy or Spain, then the whole

thing doesn't work. Ultimately

the only way you can see this

working is the European Central

Bank eventually bank rolling it

and money advertising the debt.

I think that's where it will

head. Even if they've come to

an agreement, one of the

problems with all the bailouts

is everything has to be agreed

by everyone in the Eurozone.

We saw that this week, didn't

we, with Slovakia, which

managed to vote against one of

the previous bailout packages?

Yes. We saw this weird

situation which I think really

spooked a lot of people where

Slovakia, a tiny country and

only recently, last couple of

years, became a member of the Eurozone, voted down the

bailout package, which meant

potentially the whole upgrading

of the European financial

stability facility could have

fallen over. But it was tied

to a confidence vote on the

Government. The Government

fell over. Now they've voted

for the package. But it just shows that vulnerability and

the difficulties of getting

unity in Europe to seal this.

There is a big backdrop in

Europe of the Second World War

and the desire for unity and we

never want to see terrible

events again, but push comes to

shove, there's also a lot of

political interest in

instability even within member

States. How you get all this

to work out, oh, it's a big ask. Certainly plenty of people

are talking about how they can

restructure the voting

arrangements to mean smaller

countries that don't have a

stake, money in it, skin in the

game, so to speak, can't hold

the rest of the Eurozone to

ransom. Many thanks for

joining us, Stephen Long.

You're welcome. A new face is

taking Republican politics in

the United States by storm.

Herman Cain, a little-known

former pizza company boss and political clean-skin has shot

to the front of the race to

become the party's presidential

candidate in 2012. His

spectacular rise has come at

the expense of Texas Governor

Rick Perry, who's seen his

support halved. Washington

correspondent Craig McMurtrie

reports. This is the man who,

according to an NBC 'Wall

Street Journal' poll is the new

Republican front runner.

Herman Cain says he's no flash

in the pan. There's a difference between the flavour

of the week and Sucheta Das

black walnut, because it tastes

good all the time. Analysts

believe he's popular with Tea

Party activists because he

isn't a career politician. In

fact, the former pizza chain

CEO, a liver cancer survivor,

has never held elective office

before. Most Americans are

just getting to know you right

now after remarkably successful

career in business, you have no

foreign policy experience. Why

shouldn't that matter to

voters? It shouldn't matter to

voters because having a foreign

policy philosophy is more

important than having foreign

policy experience. The straight-talking 65-year-old

has attracted plenty of controversy for declaring that

he wouldn't hire a Muslim in

his administration, that Barack

Obama has never been part of

the black experience in

America, and, more recently,

for his condemnation of occupy

Wall Street protesters. Don't

blame Wall Street, don't blame

the big banks. If you don't

have a job and you are not

rich, blame yourself. But his

startingly simple 999 tax plan

that's brought him most

national attention 9% corporate

business flat tax, 9% personal

income tax, 9% national sales

tax. 999, 9996789 I thought it

was the price of a pizza when I

first heard about it. He's a

very polished man, he's an

accomplished guy as a

professional in terms of the

things he's accomplished as

head of God father's, and some

of the other things. He's very

bright. He's also done a radio

show. He's an ad man, he says

with time running out, raising

enough money is the big problem

for candidates like Herman

Cain, who want to be top-tier

challengers. The haves would

be Romney, Perry and perhaps I

would say Huntsman, because he

has money, but he doesn't have

a message, and perhaps Cain. a message, and perhaps Cain.

I'm a conservative businessman. Money is about the only thing that isn't a problem

for Texas Governor Rick Perry,

who's come out swinging against

the man most still see as the

one to beat, Mitt Romney.

There are a lot of reasons not

to elect me. After a string of

faultering debate performances

- Mitt had six years to be

working on a plan. I've been

in this for about eight

weeks. Perry has seen his early

support fall away. We have the

lowest number of kids as a

percentage uninsured of any

State in America, you have the

highest. I'm still speaking,

I'm still speaking. I'm still

speaking. We have less than 1%

of our kids uninsured. You

have a million kids uninsured

in Texas. Romney is gradually

winning more support from the

party establishment, including

the prized endorsement of

popular New Jersey Governor

Chris Christie, many in the

party wanted him to run.

America cannot survive another

four years of Barack Obama and

Mitt Romney is the man we need

to lead America, we need him

now. That's why I'm here. An

endorsement parodied on

Late-night television. How do

you think he feels, watching

you like everybody more than

him. But Romney's religion,

he's a Mormon, is emerging as

an issue. Morm onnism has been

described as a colt. He's the

same pastor introducing Rick

Perry. He is a genuine

follower of Jesus Christ.

Would you join me in welcoming the Governor of the great State

of Texas, Rick Perry. I would

call upon Governor Perry to

repudiate the sentiment and

remarks made by that

pastor. The first voting in the party's primary election

process is less than 90 days

away. As Perry has fallen,

Herman Cain has risen, but he

doesn't have the war chest of

Mitt Romney and he doesn't have

anywhere near the political

organisation. The NBC 'Wall

Street Journal' poll still has

Romney as the most competitive

in a match-up with Barack

Obama, but it also has the President leading all

Republican contenders. Now

time for the weather. A shower

or two in Sydney, Canberra,

Melbourne and Adelaide,

thundery rain fold by afternoon

showers and storms in Brisbane,

rain easing in Hobart and

afternoon shower or storm for

Darwin, sunny in Perth. That's

all from us. If you'd like to

look back at tonight's

discussion with Craig Emerson

and Greg hupt or review any of 'Lateline's stories or

transcripts, you can visit our

website. You can also follow

us on Twitter and Facebook.

I'll see you again on Monday.

Enjoy your weekend. Good


Closed Captions by CSI

GREGORIAN CHANTING '5:45am in St Mary's, Pennsylvania. Mother Superior Rose Pannatella is in the midst of morning meditation.' Lord God, in every hour of every day, reveal your will unto me. 'I need to take the minivan in today for its half-million-mile tune-up. Perhaps that mechanic will be there, the one with the torn T-shirt. What's his name? Gregory, just like the 6th-century pope. Oh, he has such a lovely smell.

Penn's oil on his forearms, sandwich meat on his breath. Quite the common man! But don't worry, if he ever asked me out for coffee, I'd be very polite, but gently remind him that I'm already taken.' 'At local news station WBFW, news anchor Linda Alvarez goes over her notes before saying good morning to Buffalo.' OK. All right. WOMAN: We're on air in three, two... I'm Linda Alvarez! In local news, the massive recall of defective alarm clocks continues.

Bugle Clockmakers in Morristown, New Jersey, has called the recall a major wake-up call for the alarm clock manufacturers. Hotel wake-up call operators were also affected. Reports indicate that if the recall cannot be done quickly and efficiently, it will not only be a rude awakening for the entire nationwide wake-up call industry, but a major wake-up call for the wake-up call recall movement. Wow! That's alarming. Coming up after the break,

five things in your refrigerator that can kill you. 'In Coshocton, Ohio, a practitioner in Far Eastern healing arts uses public-access television to spread her message.' I'm Chandra Perkett, founder of Coshocton Choctaw Yoga Works. Most of you probably know that "yoga" means "union" in Sanskrit,

and that's what I want to talk about - unionising for minimum wage. Yoga teachers have been a downward-facing dog for far too long. Help us put the clinics that exploit us...eugh! Hold on, I have a kink. I'm going to do the Silently Passing Wind Assina. (PASSES WIND) Not so silent. It's one of our favourite poses. Help us organise local healers who do valuable energy and chakra work. Come to the town hall meeting on Wednesday at 7:00, and remember that "yoga" means "union".