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(generated from captions) any truth in Anders Behring

Breivik assertion that he

acted in conjunction with

others, that he has links to

far right groups right across

Europe. He remains in

isolation in prison, defend

access to anyone in the

outside -- denied access to anyone in the outside world.

After an intensity and

traumatic week, police have

announced that they have

called off their search.

They believe that they have

accounted for all of those

reported missing. They have

recovered the bodies. 17

victims have now been piblally identified. The

youngest, a teenager, who

celebrated her 14th birthday

just two days before the shootings took place. Other

victims are expected to be

identified in the coming days. The forecast:

that is the latest from the

Sky News centre for now. The

Contrarians with Peter Van

Onselen is next.

Contrarians. I'm Peter Van Hello and welcome to the

Onselen. This is the only

show on Sky or anywhere

elsewhere we involve you, the

viewer, to the extent where

we let you come on the

program and spit the dummy.

Well, we found out a little

bit more this week about the

tax summit - sorry, tax forum, they are not prepared

to call it a summit, that

makes it sound more important

than they intend to treat it. This forum which is going to

last a couple of days is

apparently about tax, but they won't be discussing the

carbon tax at the forum, they

presumably won't be

discussing the various income

tax adjustments attached to

the carbon tax or indeed the

treatment of superannuation,

because that has all been

pack nled up. They don't

want to discuss the mining tax, even though it hasn't

been legislated yet, because

they don't want to have any kind of discussion more

broadly with tax experts

about that, and it is not

just the mining tax that they

are not prepared to touch,

they are not prepared to

touch the GST. So what is left to discuss? They said

they are going to talk about

the various state confusing

taxes and unnecessary taxes

that weren't removed with the

GST and how can we deal with

that. Well, you can't really

do that unless you're also

prepared to discuss the GST.

The difficulty that this

problem has got is that

adjusting the GST to simplify

tax in other areas is the

perfect tax reform policy

that a Government should be

looking at doing but the last

thing politically that this

Federal Government can do is

put up another tax, even if

it results in simplicity for

the system in other areas.

To discuss this, we are

joined by the panel on the

far end of it, as I am each

week Chris Kenny, Tim Wilson,

and Sandra will kinson,

former Labor staff. Tim, let's start with you. The

anything new to happen at tax forum. Are you expecting

this or do you think it is a

bit of a couple of days of showmanship? Absolute

showmanship. I'm not expecting anything, except

about the State Government maybe propositions of talking

stuff, but the possibility of

stuff, but the possibility of

new nanny State taxes which

is what has been flagged in

the daily tell gravel today,

whether it is on food,

whether it is on toe

backa... Are you concerned

they might put tobacco taxes

up? No, they have already

increased them. Are you go

to go apply to go along and

argue the case? If you look

at the classifications, as I

have on the website, they

actually don't include provision for anybody like

myself. Unless I'm basically

some part of Green charity

group or the welfare lobby, I

don't get to go. So I would

love to be invited though if Julia Gillard would open her

heart. We have had a tweet

come straight in saying is

Kenny your equivalent of Alan Jones?

Well, you know, what do you

think? Is that flattering or

is that an insult? I don't

know. I don't know why you

would bother reading it out.

Have the courage to answer

it. Is it flattering or is

it an insult? Depends in

what sense it is meant. Do

you like being compared to

Alan Jones? If someone means

am I an accomplished and

articulate broad caster, then

thank you very much. In a

policy sense, would you like

to be compared to Jones or

not? No, I don't think so.

I don't listen to Alan Jones

I don't listen to Alan Jones

a lot. He is a great broad

caster and I agree with a lot

that he says, but I don't

listen to him a lot and now

and then I think perhaps Alan

does go just a little bit too far. Getting back to this

tax forum, I mean you're our

token Labor representative on

the panel. I am. What is

your view about it? Is there

anything to be gained by the

Government for doing this,

other than the fact that they

promised the independents

that they would have one. It

is delayed now. What can be

about whether or not there gained by more confusion

could be more reform? It's

the reasons that they are

having it when they clearly

shouldn't that bother me. I

had the pleasure of working

for a visionary State

treasurer rooer who was probably the only Treasurer

in living memory who had the

guts to admit just how much

trouble we were all in and

the structural problems

emerging because of States

governments increasing the

services and the money being

raised is at the federal

level. Surely you support

the introduction? Precisely

right. The Henry review,

full in its complete form

last year, was right on the

money about most of what we

need to do. The fact that

they are bothering to have

air tax summit when they have

no intention, clearly, of

actually implementing Henry no intention, clearly, of

does make you worry that they

are doing it because they are under pressure over these

smaller issues and the last

thing we need is more sin

taxes or a US style nudge

regime. Strangely enough I

agreed with your opening to

the program on the tax

summit. I mean, you got it

right. The most obvious area

to get rid of some tough

taxes, anti employment taxes

that are imposed by the

States, is to broaden the

base and the GST. At least

talk about that but that is

going to be the tax that dare

not speak its name. The

reason the Government has

done this, it was part of the

deal for the independents to

get across the line. They

promised a big summit by June 30. Obviously the

independents are letting them

off the hook so it is going

to be in Octoberber. When

all of the tax reform that

they want to do... They are

just new taxes. Most of

their tax reforms have been

increases or new taxes. So

look, I can understand why

the Government is dog this.

They want to downplay this as

much as possible. What about

- okay, let me play devil's

advocate because you are not

prepared to defend what the

Government is doing. I can

defend transport taxes if you want Quite seriously, the

response from that, from

Wayne Swan were he here to

defend himself, would be to

say there is so much in the Henry review which hasn't

been addressed yet or

implemented. It is still

hanging out there and they

will discuss that at the tax

forum and he has put that on

the agenda, there's a lot of

that. People like yourself,

Chris, you Tim, me as well,

everybody... Hey... Hang on

one sec. Everybody has complained that Labor hasn't

done enough from the Henry

review. He turns around and

look tosses do that and people like myself and Chris

say this isn't good enough.

No harm will come from it but

what we are saying is there

should be a bigger, bolder

tax summit that actually

doesn't rule out the key

taxes that could be used in

reform. We all know that

payroll tax is a bad tax,

that inhibits employment

growth. We all know that stamp duty is part of the

problem, particularly in the

Sydney property market,

people get stuck in homes

that are no longer

appropriate for their size,

they don't suit where they live or work anymore and

stamp duty is keeping the

property market stuck in

Sydney. We don't need

another summit to discuss

this. We have had several

taxes. We had tax reports

under cos tell owe, we had

COAG meeting. All these

issues are on the permanent

agenda. I disagree. There

are so many things that do

need to be looked at and

there may even need to be

multiple summits... Having

decided not to have GST, so

why bother. I agree with

that. Even today the Prime

Minister is now ruling out

there won't be a congestion

tax after they flagged it

yesterday. I mean, this is

just a joke. Earlier in June

there was talk by Anthony

Albanese that they were

considering a congestion tax.

We are going to be left with

a pathetic... I'Ve got to go

back to my initial comparison

of Chris Kenny and Alan Jones

because it has made a few

people irate. I have been

told that Chris Kenny is one

of the astute performers on

your program, holding the show together. Another one

said flattery, you must be

joking, Chris isn't vile but

he certainly thinks he's

right just like Jones. Alan

Jones is often very right and

I certainly like to be

correct when I can. When you

described the Prime Minister

that she should be put in a

hessian bag and thrown out to

sea. That's the point where

I think it goes too far.

Just a bit. Well of course

it was going too far. You just think it went over the

edge. I agree. I see a lot

of very strong language on

all sides of debates in

Australia at the moment. I

think it is very polarised

and I think people ought to

calm down and look to the centre and talk reasonably

about all of these issues.

That goes on all sides. At

the end of the day, whether

it's the left looking to

silence Jones, dare I defend

him for being able to sprout

some of his views on things,

or the right like Jones on

other issues, not the ones he

has been asked to be silent

on, goes to some of the

comments like we said. Isn't

it about all these things that we said about John

Howard. That's true. There

was a book that described him

as an unflushable turd. So it's not

it's not as though there is appropriate respect on that

side either. No, what it is

showing though at the moment

is a political culture at the

moment in this country is at

boiling point. The

Government is not listening

at the end of the day That is

true. The one thing I would

say in defence of the left is

that the rhetoric in defence

of John Howard wasn't

inflammatory in the way some

of the rhetoric I have

seen... I Disagree entirely.

John Howard and the Howard

Government received very,

very hateful and violent

protests around the country

on a number of issues. The

most significant was the gun

reform? Also on border

protection and on the Iraq

war and on David Hicks and

the media just didn't fail to

condemn that sort of

behaviour, they egged it

along. So I mean really,

that's what I - I agree that

we should try and have sober,

reasonable debates and people

should refrain from excessive

language, but there is a

gross amount of hypocrisy

going on because I didn't hear these calls for

restraint gac in those days.

Let's move the topic on.

Malaysian deal. We talked

about it last week. We are

going to take a break so you

can have a bit of a think

about it but when we come

back, I want to come straight

to you on what you think we have now been presented with.

We talked about it, as I

said, last week but this week

the minister raised exactly

what was involved in their

package with the so-called Malaysian solution. We will discuss this when we come

back from the break. You're

watching the Contrarians.

Welcome back you're

watching the Contrarians. We will continue with the

program in a moment, but

first, let's take a look at

today's news headlines. The

Prime Minister is promising to crack down on companies

that hike up prices once a

carbon tax is introduced.

She says carbon cops will

keep watch on corporations

who don't declare their

emissions. The draft

legislation for the scheme to

put a price on carbon was

released yesterday, including

the details of the regulation

mechanism. Tony Abbott has

labelled the measure

draconian. Refugee advocates

have well a.m. coulded an ombudsman inquiry into self

arm in immigration detention

centres. The refugee action

Coalition says there have

been two suicide attempts in

Darwin recently and says the

situation is desperate. The Immigration Department and medical treatment is

available to all assylum

seekers in detention. The Commonwealth ombusman

launched his official inquiry

after seeing the evidence

with his own eyes. Kiama on

the NSW South Coast has

become the second mainland

site to be connected to the

NBN the Communications Minister called it a very

significant and exciting day.

Stephen Conroy says the NBN

is a reality and gaining

momentum across Australia.

Qantas says a workers strike

today is unlikely to disrupt

passengers on domestic or

international flights. More

than 300 Qantas warehouse

staff in NSW, Queensland, WA

and South Australia are

walking off the job for 24

hours. A national union of

workers spokesperson says

warehouse staff are fed up

with the airlines push for a

casualisation of the

workforce and its refusal to

protect permanent jobs.

Thousands of sew mar lis are

screaming across the

correction cross-examination

-- sew marly's. Their plight

has been hampered by the

millants controlling much of

southern and central Somalia.

The United Nations work food

program says it cannot reach

more than 2 million sew

marlies who are facing

starvation in rebel

controlled areas. And

updating sport, swimmer James

Magnussen says he is already

eyeing olympic gold a year

out from the London games

after becoming Australia's

newest sporting hero. The

20-year-old from Port

Macquarie was the star of the

Aussies relay win earlier in

the week at the world championships in Shanghai and

last night he was the first

Aussie man to win the 100 m world title. The weather:

Welcome back, you're

watching the Contrarians

where I'm joined by Chris

Kenny, as well as Tim Wilson

and Cassandra. This is the

spit the dummy segment where

we allow you, the viewers to

come on and we are joined out

of Melbourne by Nick Fry. Thanks very much for being on

the program. Pleasure

Peter. What's your gripe?

First of all I just want to

say that I'm a big fan of

Chris Kenny, so I want to put

that on the record. Can we

just quickly slap one of

those time clocks on Nick

please. Well done Nick.

Thanks Chris. Peter, my

gripe, I sent you an email

last week, it was basically I

felt that you've been pretty

critical of late of Tony

Abbott, and that's fair

enough, but my gripe, if you

like, is that I think the

blowtorch needs to be applied

to Julia Gillard and her

Government in the strongest

possible way. You take a

look at the current media she

is getting. You think she is

sailing through unscathed, do

you? I don't by any means

but I think it is worth, you

know, stopping and reflecting

that average Australians like

myself, and I speak at a

domestic level as a parents

of three kids, my wife and I

are trying to balance the family budget and a

professional level, I work in the retail trade, associated

with a lot of small businesses, and I see every

day at home and at work just

how tough Australians are

doing it. Having you on the

program, a serious question,

there is a lot of discussion

about the two speed economy

and the retail sector is

really suffering, if you work

in the retail sector as I

know you do, how bad is it?

It is very bad. I don't want

to be a profit of doom but I

see every day - and it's not just us, I'm involved in

small businesses and

independent retail and they

are doing it very, very

tough. Scraping for every

sale they can get. Average

sale prices have plummeted.

Profits have plummeted as a

result of that. But it's not

just the small guys. We have

seen recently David Jones,

you know, their annual

results are very poor. Just

Jeans, Portmans, shutting

down some stores. This is

not a free advertisement.

Were you ever a supporter of the Gillard Government or the Labor Government? Did you vote for them and have they

let you down or have you

always been opposed to them?

Look, I've never voted for

them. I don't mind saying

that. But I don't necessarily say it's a

Liberal versus Labor thing.

I think it's about good governance and when Australian families,

pensioners, self funded

retirees, single people,

students, people are doing it

tough out there so it's not

libram versus Labor. We have

survive and thrived under

both sides of politics.

People are doing it tough out there but you've never voted

Labor but you think that I'm

too hard on Tony Abbott? You

think that maybe you've just

got a little bit of bias in

your own view on that? Look,

maybe I do but as I said,

I've lived for a long time

State and federally under Labor Governments and been

fine, lived with it. I

thought Bob Hawke was

actually a very good Prime Minister. Last question Nick, I've got to ask you

before I let you go, you did

title the email to me as

Peter Van Onselen. What is

your point? Well, I just

thought lately you have been

a bit uppidity about Tony

Abbott. I think you wrote

three articles in a row.

Three articles attacking Tony

Abbott. In a short space of

time. In fairness... What

Nick is saying is it is the

Government that is running

the country, how about

scrutinising them? Because

they're not getting much scrutiny at the moment. This

Government is sailing by free

of scrutiny. Did Rupert

change his mind and ask you

to write those articles. I was... this is the

ridiculousness. Now you have

managed for me to find a way

for me to attack the right

from the left. Thanks for

joining us on the show.

Appreciate it. Thanks Peter.

You are turning the guns

back on the left by saying

stuff like that. I'm very

proimmigration. I think the

simplest thing to stop people

dying in the ocean is to put

the processing facilities in

Indonesia and invite more

people to move to Australia.

I believe in a big, strong, important globally relevant Australia, exporting our

values and our way of

life... A Lot of

conservatives believe in immigration intakes for

economic reasons. But hardly

anyone is out there

aggressively supporting high

immigration at the moment.

Having said thark the

difficulty is that most of my

fellow countrymen disagree

with me on this point so we

are left with the idea of a

queue and managing the queue

and in the end, it seems that

the consensus nationally, and

laib is as much to blame for

this because it was Keating

who put mandatory detention

in and then John Howard had

the insight that we will put

it further away, and now we

are stuck fighting over which

island we are going to send

people to instead of actually

dealing with the issue, which is Australia is having a false idea that immigration

is a burden and not an

opportunity. I just want to

take up the mantle as someone who believes in high migration, I share just view

on that, but the realities as

a political context in which

there needs to be an argument

put out there, both for that

and the problems that people

are facing and how they

connect those issues in their

daily lives needs to be

addressed. The concerns that

people like Nick have about

retail sector and the way the Government is interfering

with their lives and making

their lives more difficult,

in many ways is similar in

the immigration debate when

people get on roads and they

can't get to where they want

to, when they go to hospitals

and they can't get their

beds, and people wrongly and

incorrectly... But they are

saying Sydney's problem is

immigration, it is John

Howard's fault we have a

traffic problem in Sydney

because of the rate of immigration. Did you express those concerns when you used

to work for him Labor

colleagues of mine will tell

you how sick and tired they

are of my ranting, about how

we need to grow and expand

and build more freeways and

train lines and embrace growth. We come to this border protection issue every

week. As you know, I could

talk about this happily for

an hour. But the essential

point is that what those who

say who want strong borders

are saying is not stop the

migration, it's not... They

don't need to be protected

from the people who want to

do the pedicures and pay

taxes and buy retame. As

someone who supports big

migration, I agree with Chris

though. If you don't manage

it, people get very upset and

angry and respond as a

consequence if they don't

feel. One of the points that

Tony Abbott hasn't focussed

on enough on migration and the issues around the legal

migration is if you don't

give out both the perception

and reality that you control

the legal migration,

confidence in legal migration actually drops quite

considerably. What is legal

migration? Fleeing

persecution, that is legal my

grakes. It's an illegal

attempt and then... No, it's

not. They have a legal right

to seek asylum which is what

they are doing on a boat.

I'm not against that. So

you're prothe legal rights to

seek asylum, just not here?

I'm prothe legal right to

seek asylum here as well.

But not by boat, you have to

come by plane. That is the

preference. Through the

don't always go the right legal channels. But people

channels. If you don't have

control over the system, people lose confidence in

border protection. We have

that as an argument for bio

security and for quarantine

as well. I want New Zealand

apples, thanks very much. So

do I. We don't need our border's protected against

French cheese or hardworking employees from all over the

world... I Couldn't agree

with you more... It is time

for me to redirect this

conversation to a new

direction. Let's move on to privacy very quickly before

we go to a break. Chris

Kenny, you like me have done

some Liberal staffing. Party

databases, you have done some staffing, voter tracking

software, the capacity to

invade the privacy the political parties have a

right to do because they have exempted themselves from the

privacy act. Should it be

changed? Yes. Starting with

me, I've seen the Liberal

system. Haven't had a great

deal of time working with it.

Normally people working in

electrol offices would use it. People like myself.

Chris was too big for that.

He was the chief of stuff for

Alexander Downer. You were

doing that sort of thing I

think and opening envelopes

and whatnot in Tony Abbott's

office. That is part of the

problem of these databases.

It is junior staff, not just

senior staffers. The point

here is that this is

information that people would

be concerned about. It's

gossip about whether they

support Labor or lib rap or

if they happen to offer that

information, it will be recorded for these people to

access. There is nothing particularly sinister but for

a Government that is out

there trying to trum pet

privacy then, they ought to

apply the rules to themselves

as much as they want to apply

them to others. Don't

disagree with anything that

has just been said. Come o

try? People have a right to

privacy. People have a right

to join any organisation they

want and for that to remain

confidential. People have a

right to not have their data

taken the way like this. The

IPA has a right not to take

sponsorship from tobacco companies. People in

political offices, you have

tax payer funded people who

collect this data and then put it into private systems

and, look, you know there are

huge problems with that, even with having private systems

in political offices, but the hypocrisy of this Government

about privacy is just a

complete and utter joke and

they should dump it. Hold

that thought. We are going

to take a commercial break.

But Stephen Conroy appeared on David Spears's the

"Nation" and I have had a bit

of a go at him this morning. You are watching the

in a moment. Contrarians. We will be back

Welcome back. Right of

reply segment where we give

the opportunity to someone

well-known out there if they

feel they have been aggrieved

and they want to answer some

of the criticisms. Maybe Stephen Conroy will come on

after he reads the article.

Alan Jones has an outstanding

offer to come on this

program. I contacted him

with a longstanding offer

whenever he is free to come

on this program and he hasn't

taken it. Good, I would like

to see him do that because he

broad casts for many hours a

week and you have pinned him

for one line. Which he

thinks the Prime Minister

should be thrown in a hessian

bag and out to sea. That is

one line too many. Let's

move on. Carbon tax. Chris,

you've been eager to talk

about this from the

beginning. Why? I just

think it's been a very

interesting week this week.

As you know on this program previously, I've talked about the need for Julia Gillard to

get away from this debate, to

talk about other things and

I've written about that. I

think this week we have seen

that happen. I think the

Labor Party has come to its

senses and realised that if it can't win on the carbon

tax debate, at least not a

quick win, it needs to talk

about other issues and allow

that issue, if it can, just

to mull away in the background and we haven't

seen a lot of Julia Gillard

doing her own sort of carbon

tax pick facts this week. You think they are hiding

her? I think it is very

sensible political management

to put that issue in its perspective and to try to have the Prime Minister look more ministerial, get out of

the line of fire and talk

about other issues and I

think it shows that they

really want to try and nudge

those polls up a bit. I

haven't seen any evidence to

support that claim. The

yesterday we had the

legislation introduced.

Everybody is about to get a

whole bunch of spam into

their mailboxes about what is

contained in the legislation

and why it is going to be

good for us allegedly. The

Government has run out of

things to say that are new

and where they are saying

things that are new, I dough agree they are probably

trying to play it down a bit because it is political

death, but I don't see any

evidence that they are not

prepared to talk about it.

I'm not saying they are not

prepared to talk about it.

I'm saying they are trying to

get it off the lead story of

the news. I'm saying it is

smart politics. Julia

Gillard said she was going to

burn up the shoe leather for

the next six weeks, just

pushing this tax and she has realised after about a week

and a half of that, that that

is politically silly, that

she should ease back and we

had swan out there yesterday

with his tax summit and as

you say the legislation

introduced. I think it is

messy. I think this there is

this permanent sense that too

much is going on with this

Government. Too many

announceableses. Too many

ideas. Nothing delivered.

It goes back to the decision

to set up minority Government

and immediately go about pursuing big reforms rather

than dog the alternative,

which I would have suggested,

which is to try to prove that

you can actually just govern profirktly for three years

and then maybe if you get a

mandate at the next election,

go on after that. You're

absolutelit right. Just as

you were saying it, the

answer to the question is

minority Government, that the opportunity to bed down

you're own key agenda doesn't

exist. I mean, their

legislative agenda and their

political agenda is set every

day by a

day by a random group of untamable senators and independent back benchers in

the lower house. Government

by the... How is she supposed

to have - this is the woman

who delivered education

reform. She is smart. She

is driven. She is an

extraordinary woman and she

is becoming a key stone cop

carrier because she ins this

parade of idiots following

their own agenda down in Canberra.

Canberra. She is stuck with

this minority Government

scenario. It's not like she

did go into this vowel

tearily. She made the choice

of what she wanted to do. She made a tactical

decision. It is too hard to

do a minority Government, I

will just give it to Tony Abbott. She did the right

thing which was to say "You

know what, I'm going to make

this work" and that's what

she is trying to do. But she

is doing too much. This is

the problem. I agree with

you. If I were in her

position, I would have taken

over and done things. The

problem is she does have, firstly, if you're in

Government you want to try to

get the harshest and

difficult things out of the

way as early as possible so

you can move on towards the election. But the other

thing is she had to adopt a

large part of the Greens

agenda. That is the bigger

point. Go back a step here.

Anyone that knows anything about the way

about the way the media works

should be able to say "Okay,

I'm in minority Government,

what does that mean. Every

time I make an announcement

or look for some reform, the

media is in a position to say

what does Bob Brown think,

what do these two rural

infendents think, what does

an dri Wilkie think". If so

much as one voice in the

Labor back bench raises

concerns in the house, that

concerns in the house, that jeopardises that whole

concept. It is messy and it

fills media space like there

is no tomorrow. When you've

been given a serve by the public and lost your majority

because they are worried that

you can't implement things

effectively, to turn around

and say "you know what,

you're concerned we can't

implement things, let's try to implement a whole bunch of

new things". No, bed things down, that is what they

should be doing. Anyone who

was in NSW under the minority

Government that we had in NSW

remembers that people were up

all night debating crazy

legislation that independents

put forward, every deal hung

by a thread, you know capable

politicians were nonetheless

held to ransome by just a

peanut gallery of randomly

elected independents. It's

not necessarily exposing her

weaknesses as a leader that

she appears to be flailing,

in fact, it is extraordinary

that she is holding this

thing together can you

imagine... There's been

minority Government in most

of the States at various times. The Government never

operated at the scale that it

does now then. The point is

about the Gillard Government

is now how it handles the

media and not about whether

or not it has the extra

pressure of being in minority

Government. The problem is

choosing what you are going

to do and doing it well. It

has failed to implement any

of its policies... But you

are against the idea that for

most people in the Labor Party, getting a carbon tax

in place is the big agenda

issue. But the point

is... No, the point of a lot of voters is that she

promised not to. So leaving

aside for a sec whether she

would or wouldn't, I don't

care at the moment. Is it

the right policy? It is the

right policy for the

challenge that we fails.

Most people in the Labor

Party want the carbon tax.

Yes, she did that deal. She

has done it as fast as

possible and I hope to God

that this thing can get

bedded down and get back to education. It is not

competent for the country at the moment. Australians

don't like politics in their

lives on a day-to-day basis.

Every time I pick up the

newspaper ... Don't say that.

This is an entire 24-hour

news channel based on

bringing politics to your

lounge room. The reality is most Australians don't want to pick up the newspaper

every day and see either one

what politicians what to do

and niggle at their lives

every day or alternatively

they don't want to read about

how the Government is being

messy. Minority Governments

tend not to get releected for

reasons that it is a

disasters. Some of that is

the Government's fault, a lot

of that isn't, but they have

to accept the consequences.

They pay the price. They did

the deal. This is the

reality. They signed up

for. I think even if were

you to take your point and

put aside the broken Prime

Minister which I think is a

big ask -- promise which I

think is a big ask and assume

that this is the right policy

for the country, even if you

take those two assumptions,

you can very easily argue

that the Gillard Government

has gone about imposing this policy, introducing this

policy in a very hand fisted

way. They announced the broken promise before they

had any details. They

allowed the vacuum to be

filled by the kriltices

before they got the detail

out. They didn't consult

before announcing it all.

They have dragged the whole

process out. But it is done

and it is 18 months and it - whether you like it or you

don't, it's a very large

scale reform. It should be

out of the way very shortly.

What, nov? What's going to

be out of the way very

shortly? The tax. 1 July it

comes into place. End of

next year... Hang on, more to

the point... We will be talking about the carbon tax

for dots doots I've got top

interrupt. We are almost out

of time. The reality is that

it's not out of the way once

its implemented. Once it is

implemented, you start paying the tax. I think Tony Abbott

is going to have a field day

with that. We're out of

time. Thank you very much

for your company. Thanks for

your company as well. Be

sure to tune in to Australian

agenda. We have both got the

minister, Chris bow enand his

shadow immigration opponent

Scott Morrison. It should be

an interesting one. Thanks for your company. I'm Peter Van Onselen.

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