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Good evening. Tomorrow - they face grand final glory, but when the Western Bulldogs faced their darkest days, there was one woman who saved them.I believe you pick a side, you should never leave that side. SONG: # We'll come up smiling # Bulldogs through and through... How would you feel about having your pizza delivered to your door by a remote-controlled drone? New Zealanders will get a taste of this later this year when the mega chain Domino's trials the technology, with plans for Australia not far behind. Big business has been pushing to make drone deliveries part of every day life for a while now, but are we ready for a world where drones rule the sky and where things could sometimes go wrong? This week new aviation rules came into effect giving commercial operators more freedom to take to the skies without a licence and without any training. In a moment we'll speak to our panel of drone experts and enthusiasts, but first, Jason Om takes us through what the new rules will mean.

Drones are evolving. In all sizes, great and small. Not just in the air, but in the water, too. You can even take one for a walk, or ski, or sail, or on any adventure sport you want to show off to your mates. Drones are already at the beach to rescue you, or to save you from sharks. Mail by drone, maybe Australia Post will do it? Hungry? A drone to deliver pizza. Heart attack after having that pizza? Get a drone to bring a fe fibrillator. Need life-saving medical supplies? No problem. In response to the boom in drones, Australia's aviation authority is relaxing its rules. Anyone wanting to fly commercially can do so with a drone like this one under 2 kilos without remote pilot's licence and without any training. CASA argues it'll free up red tape and save operators at least $1400 in costs. Businesses will still need to be registered with CASA and given a special ID. They'll need to abide by the existing safety regulations such as keeping at least 30 metres away from people and 5.5 kilometres from airports and not flying higher than 120 metres.The rules are there to protect the safety of people on the ground and people in the skies. They will not be watered down or changed in any way.Commercial drone photography has helped the real estate industry sell a property's best asset - its location. Properties that are right on the beach side, so flying over the ocean into the property to locate exactly where it is and how close it is to the beach, or like the property we are in now, there's fantastic views of the city. So to be able to showcase that is incredible.In 2013, real estate agency launched its own drone service in Adelaide, but unaware of the previous restrictions, had to ground the idea. Under the old system, the company outsourced its drone photography, but now after waiting 3 years for the laws to change, plans to take off again.We've got our own in-house photography and videographers and for us to be able to bring that in-house means we can open up the opportunities for clients. I think the cost will come down and we'll be able to really bring back that control of how we can market properties in-house and I think this is a great step forward. Andrew Chapman runs an aerial mapping service and is among the existing commercial operators who are worried about how the changes might affect public safety. Today he's testing the velocity of a 2 kilo drone.Basically we just want to show what speed is at which one of these falls, because that can then be correlated against data which shows what the likely impact, for example, falling on a person is at that speed.OK, let's test it out.


Andrew, it was stomach-churning to watch that in freefall, how fast was it travelling?We did a series of drops that were at slightly different speeds. The fastest of those was 28 metres per second which is just over 100km/h.If we're transitioning from a world of highly-trained specialised drone operators into one where anybody can sort of have a go, then obviously there's going to be some incidents. So there's no real way for CASA to know that these people have read and understood the rules if there's no testing component. So the general message that's out there is that if it's under 2 kilograms then it's a free-for-all, you can sort of do what you want.In the past 12 months, commercial aircrews have reported 118 sightings or encounters with drones, while the Transport Safety Bureau has had five more serious investigations in the past 3 years. One included a commercial drone, which crashed near the MCG during the World Cup cricket final last year.If you're a helicopter pilot and a drone hits your tail rider it may be catastrophic. There is no testing in that space yet. As a jet transport pilot, ingesting of a drone and an engine will lead to probable engine failure or fire because of the lithium battery that powers the drone. Two kilos at 250km/h or potentially 400km/h, there's a lot of energy in that impact.Not to mention those sharp rotor blades. While the new rules are already in effect, Parliament may yet intervene, with Senator Nick Xenophon considering blocking the changes. John Flemming is a drone operator and drainer Dr Reece Clothier is president of the Australian Association for Unmanned Systems and Shara Evans is a technology futurist. They joined me a short time ago to discuss how drones are changing our world now and in the future. Shara, gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us. John, can I start with you because you train people to use drones and you're worried about these changes. What is your biggest concern inGood evening Matt, good evening all. My biggest concern I guess is the safety of our industry. The industry has boomed very quickly and the regulations obviously haven't kept up, hence these changes that are being rolled in, but my biggest concern is they're loosening the regulations a little too much which will pose I believe a greater risk to our industry in the safety aspect. Not just for people on the ground, but also air space. These things have the capability of joining manned aircraft and in the uneducated hands it's a concern. Because you don't need any training and you're away and you might fly yourself into a plane?Yeah well the sub-2 kilo class as you'll hear bandied around a lot, that's the ability to fly a very small remote piloted aircraft without the need for certification. They still have the ability to join manned air space and be put in places where they shouldn't.Dr Reece Clothier, do you disagree with what John's saying? There's very little evidence to suggest that the level of risk will increase from commercial drone operations as a result of changes to the regulation. We've had an im peckable safety record over the last 14-15 years. We are seeing an increase in the number of people undertaking training ahead of the changes of the regulation and industry associations providing professional training programs and all these facts suggest that we won't see the skies filling full of untrained and unsafe commercial operators.Are you actually more worried about the commercial operators, or the hobbyists?We as an industry are more worried about the commercial operators and the current changes to the regulations do not address the hobby group, so what we're worried about and we've seen an increasing number of incidents and I'm sure John would agree with me that these incidents, the majority of them have been caused by hobby users.Can I pose a point there, though? Those hobby users are going to become sub-2 kilo untrained users in the commercial space.Reece?To an extent many hobby users will make the jump across, but not all hobby users are unsafe.No.There's only a small majority of them that are ignoring the regulations or in some cases, they're completely unaware of the regulations and the key thing here is about educating them and improving the regulations that apply to hobby users and also enforcing those regulations. I feel a lot of debate around the current changes to regulation are misdirected, which our concerns should be more directed towards these small proportion of hobby users.I want to bring Shara Evans in here. You've been aware of what's happening in the US. Is this like an Uber situation where the policymakers just had to change because everyone was just doing it anyway?Well, people are doing it anyway, but I've got a couple of concerns with what the guys were saying. From a safety perspective we have to consider that we're putting aircraft that are 2 kilos and 400 feet high, 122 metres. If something goes wrong and these craft fall it's going to have an impact at about 175km/h. If that hits somebody, that's going to be a very bad situation, whether they're a commercial operator or a private operator. Frankly, there are a lot of things that can go wrong even if you have a trained operator, much less an untrained one. So, for example, wind shifts. Even in commercial aircraft, wind sheers can be a very dangerous situation. With a lot of these small drones they're controlled by radio frequency communication devices and you can get a lot of different interferers, garage doors, birds.Your background is in telecommunications, so you know about this?There are things that can interfere with capabilities of controlling your craft at that kind of height.You're exactly right. There are very legitimate risks around the operation of drones, particularly in populous areas and in busy air space, but CASA have assessed those risks and the regulations actually put very stringent operational restrictions so you can't fly over populous areas within 30 metres of a person, beyond visual line of sight and all those litigations are in place to help reduce those risks. But unmitigated, I agree, there are risks associated with the use of the systems.One of the big problems that we've got is the small drone industry has not been around long enough for us to get a clear understanding of what the statistics are. With every Christmas that goes by there are more and more drones taking to the sky. We've only seen small RPAs, remote piloted aircraft, RPA for the abbreviation. We've only seen 3 or 4 years of statistics we can call on. What happens 55, 6, 7 years ago when the population has tripled.Are we sure what happens when an RPA flies into a plane?It hasn't happened yet, but it will.Do we have to accept like with the road toll, if we use cars, we expect people to get hurt?There is an element of risk associated with the use of any technology. Drones, like civil aircraft, like helicopters or even vehicles as you point out, are no different. There is an element of risk and we can never reduce that to zero.Why do we relax the laws to get changed?We shouldn't wait for statistics and accidents to happen to go about regulating the unmanned systems and look, the relaxation of the regulations are for a very small and niche sector of the industry and there's no evidence to suggest that the risk will increase.It's not very small. There are more of those drones sold than any other size on the planet.Do you think as soon as one accident happens John, CASA will come in and take away these rights? The question I've got for CASA, if not, when that accident happens are they going to be able to stand hand on heart and say they did everything to prevent it?The approach is a risk-based approach -The FAA requires a pass -I'm not talking about the regulations in place, I'm talking about the approach they use to develop the regulations which is justifiable.They require that pilot to still sit a test, why are we still not doing that?Shara wants to jump in here.Absolutely right, the FFA does require a remote pilot licence as opposed to a full pilot licence. They also require that for any drone that weighs more than 250 grams it has to be registered and the pay load has to be noted. That's a big difference, so at least that way if it crashes you know who it belongs to.Yeah, and let's not forget that CASA are world leaders in the regulation of this industry. We've had regulation s in place for coming on 15 years. We have an impeccable safety record. In fact, we are the most experienced to regulate civil drones. It's only in the last 2 years that the FFA and Europe have started to develop their own regulations and there's no justification for us to mimic them. In fact, there is an argument they should be looking to us and saying, what is happening in Australia? They've been doing this for 15 years and have a lot of experience in the regulation of drones.Can I pose a point with the 2 kilo benchmark?Yep fI'd like to ask someone who is more knowledgeable in the area than I the difference between 1.9 kilo and 2.1 kilo being at a risk level. How can we say on the one hand this machine that is 2.1 kilo is riskier than the same machine with a different camera that now weighs under 2 kilo?I guess they had to draw the line somewhere. I want to move onto the other important issue people care about with drones. Privacy, Shara. Is it a matter of time with the paparazzi?There've already been cases where real estate companies have been using drones to do aerial shots of beautiful homes and inadvertently catching the neighbour next door nude sun bathing and putting it on air. There's an incident that I know -You can go live from drones already? Absolutely, you can watch it streaming on the Internet. There have been drones that have been basically what I would call trespassing in apartment complexes and taking pictures at high windows. You have an expectation of privatisation if you're up on a fourth floor window facing the ocean that nobody's going to be peeking in your window and these craft are able to do that with high-definition cameras and infra-red cameras and they're getting cheaper and more powerful all the time.Reece, if someone got a ladder and put it up against a high-rise they'd be charged, but we can do it with a drone now, can we?Privacy is a serious concern of the industry, as well. Unfortunately in Australia, the privacy regulations are piecemeal and there is a lot of work that needs to be done to develop the privacy legislation for all technology, not just drones. We've had incidents where drones have been used to capture people in their backyards, but what's really important is we go out and educate operators on privacy management principles, how they can go about reducing the risk of breaches of private, whether inadvertent or not, and so we can reduce the potential for privacy breaches.John, do you think we should rely on people's goodwill not to abuse this? Absolutely not. Right now with the new regulations, somebody can register on the CASA website in 5 days, fly with very little education whatsoever and I don't understand how education is a bad thing. Alright. Shara, what about the dangers posed by drones? Could they be used for instance terrorism, assassinations?Absolutely. Already I saw a custom-made drone in the US where someone took a commercial drone and attached a gun to it and was using it to be able to shoot stuff off of posts and for the hell of it because they're a gun culture. There was an incident a year ago at the White House where an intelligence worker decided to go out and play with his friend's drone after a night of drinking and decided to go for a lark in Washington DC and accidentally crashed the drone on the lawn of the White House. Now mind you, this is the most highly-defended perimeter in the world and the drone got through.They don't have a sense of humour about that, do they?What if it wasn't a drunken lark, but anthrax or a bomb? It could happen, it's not hard.I'm afraid we could talk talking about this for hours I suspect, but I'm going to have to leave it there. Shara Evans, John Flemming and Reece Clothier, thank you so much for your time.Thank you very much indeed.Thank you.We wanted to know your opinion. This week we asked you whether you think drones are already out of control? Here's our latest poll results. As we've heard, changes to the laws could see drone usage soar to new heights, but how would you feel if drone usage took off? Are drones already out of control? William told us he isn't remotely interested in changing the laws. Laura agreed, saying she dreads the day when these laws will be relaxed. Our privacy is being invaded bit by bit. For Francis, the relaxation of the laws just isn't going to fly. They're intrusive and noisy and should be banned anywhere near traffic, public spaces and recreational areas. And Karen didn't hover on the fence. She said all drones should be registered, otherwise these devices could be used in a destructive fashion. But not everyone is worried. A few incidents of people doing dumb things and not following commonsense does not mean drones are out of control. For our poll this week, you agreed with Mick, with 60% of our Facebook respondents saying drones are not out of control. The results were similar on Twitter, with 57% also saying no. Bep believes they'll change the way we live our lives, seeing them as being a vital part of our future and we should be encouraged to use and learn and build them. Danny agreed, like all things there is great good to be gained and no doubt some idiots will use them for wrong. Mandy said they couldn't possibly be out of control, as I don't think I've ever seen one in the wild. I could drone on about this, but let's look at the way the drones have changed our perspective on the world.




Tomorrow will see the Western Bulldogs in their first grand final appearance since 1961. They last won a premiership in 1954. The Bulldogs represent the battlers of the western suburbs of Melbourne and are the sentimental favourites for the grand final. When they take to the ground against the Sydney Swans tomorrow, it will be a dream come true for many fans who remember the club's darkest days in 1989 when a merger with the Fitzroy club was announced. Dedicated supporters battled to save the Western Bulldogs and won, and two of the key people behind that campaign will be at the game tomorrow. They spoke to Lateline's Hamish Fitzsimmons.I believe you pick a side, you should News 24 leave that side. It's like you get a dog for Christmas or a cat, you keep that pet for life. You don't just later say, "That's it, you're gone. "Commission chairman Ross Oakley had the honour of announcing the new club.Footscray was going to become the Bulldogs playing out of Fitzroy's home ground playing in predominantly a Fitzroy jumper with a Fitzroy coach and a Fitzroy board.It was all over the TV, you know. Bulldogs Fitzroy, they're gone, they're merging together, it's going to be called the Fitzroy Bulldogs. I said, what a load of rubbish, it's never going to happen.It would have been devastating, because a lot of people's aspirations out west lie on the fluctuating fortunes of the football club and the people out here are very passionate and they believe in the red, white and blue. We protested and protested. People were saying you're wasting your time, it's gone. I said no, you never waste your time, there's always that little slim amount of hope and chance.We approached Irene Chatfield to become a plaintiff in a Supreme Court action to obtain an injunction from the Supreme Court to stop the merger.I was standing around and they go, "Are you a member? " "Of course I'm a member, is the Pope a Catholic, why would I not be a member of this club. " "Those men want to see you. " The first time I met Dennis he said, "We need someone to stand up for the club. " I said I can't stand too tall, I'm only short, but I'll do what I can.Justice Marks gave us a stay of 21 days on receiving an undertaking from the VF L they wouldn't do anything further to implement the merger. They thought that was sufficient time for us to hang ourselves.Today was really about raising money.It was to give us a chance to raise money, you know, where we could at least attempt to save the club. I don't believe a lot of people even the hi raki s and all that, I don't believe they thought we had a chance. But I know I did. I was darn sure.We beat the big ones.We damn one. The next day we went into court and he goes, "I'm going to allow the proceedings to go along, that you have 21 days to raise $21.5 million. " I said, "No worries in the world, we will do it. " He said, "Very good luck to you. " (Sings) # We'll come out smiling # Bulldogs through and throughThree days later after the court announced its decision we had an impromptu rally here where 10,000 people turned up to express their dismay and they contributed $450,000 in a 2-hour timeframe and that's when we knew that the support of the community was so overwhelming that we knew that we could raise the money to wipe the debt and to put the club back on a sound footing. From that day on, you knew we would win and people were standing on pub corners, on the corners of Geelong Road, every road you could think of and just saying," Put some money in".So you saved the club?Yes we did. Absolutely.Go Doggies! Go Dogs!A lot of the people who you see here today at the Whitten Oval here to support the Bulldogs in their plight for the grand final, they wouldn't have had a club to follow and they wouldn't be here today and they would have been a lot, their lives wouldn't have been as fulfilled as they would be now if this club can win a premiership, its first in 63 years.COMMENTATOR: Draws breath, directly in front to give the Bulldogs a 6-point lead. He's done it!I think this club, they're from the western suburbs, we're a struggling group all over here. We're just passionate about our club. We want to see them here for an eternity. We just love the players, we love the feel of the club and the community. They stick together. We stick together like glue and when you get a friend at this club, it's a friend for life. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

Luckily through the efforts of myself and Peter Gordon and Irene Chatfield we've been able to restore the club in its rightful position in the competition and it's flourished over the years. Since '89 it's grown and flourished and developed and be shedding a tear to see the red, white and blue run out onto the MCG on grand final day.This is your first grand final, isn't it?Oh hell, yeah.Why have you never been to a grand final?'Cause I can't stand to see two other teams playing in a grand final. Hard to see the players run out there. It will be astronomical, I'll be ecstatic and I know I'll be crying when they come out. I get emotional thinking about it now, thinking about going out there.

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