Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant the accuracy of closed captions. These are derived automatically from the broadcaster's signal.
The Drum -

View in ParlView

(generated from captions) Good-bye.
company. Have a great weekend. The ABC is your space to connect,
to share and to enjoy. And we really want to know how
the ABC is working, or not, for you. We're launching
a new online community and we need you to be a part of it. So come on, get amongst it. Head to abcyourspace.net.au
and start talking.

This program is live captioned by Ericsson Access Services. Hello there. Welcome to The Drum. I'm Julia Baird. Coming up - had law and order candidate. Donald Trump delivers the biggest speech of his career at the Republican national convention and says he alone can save America.

The PM orders a probe of terror suspects' mental health and criminal histories. And should the IOC ban all Russian athletes from the Rio Games over doping?

Joining me on this Friday fight panel, we have a senior writer for the Sydney Morning Herald, Deborah Snow, counterterrorism researcher Anooshe Mushtaq and former Federal Liberal MP and ultra marathon runner Pat Farmer. I think the first maybe we've haddoon the show, Pat. We haven't had a series of ultra marathon runners but I could be wrong. You can join us as well if you're on Twitter, if you just find
use the hashtag The Drum you'll find other viewers of this program. All week reeve had our eyes glued to the at times chaot scpk always electric Republican national officially
convention where today Donald Trump officially accepted his White House nomination and what a spectacle it was. We've seen glimpses of Mr Trump all week of course introducing his wife Melania, clapping as rival Ted Cruz was booed off stage and then finally he delivered the speech thousands of cheering delegates had been waiting for.On January 20 of 2017, the day APPLAUSE)
I take the Oath of (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) Office... Americans will finally wake up in a country where the laws of the (CHEERING
United States are enforced. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
We are going to be considerate and compassionate to everyone but my greatest compassion will be for our own struggling citizens.(APPLAUSE) USA! USA! USA! We must break free from the petty politics of the past. America is a nation of believers, dreamers and strivers that is being led by a group of censors, critics and cynics. We love defeating those people. Don't we love defeating those people? (APPLAUSE) Declaring himself the law and order candidate of the campaign, Mr Trump devoted much of his speech to criticising Democratic rival Hillary Clinton but very little time outlining policy. Deborah Snow, do you thing this was effective in what Mr Trump was setting out to do which was to convince those who are concerned about where America is going, what's happened to the economy, whether they're safe in the world, that he is the man that's going to take them there?I think what Donald Trump did in that speech was promise everything short of a cure for cancer. No-one's going to be out of a job in his new vision of America, jobs are not going to be off shoreded. ISIS is going to somehow be smashed tomorrow, there is going to be fairness and equality across the land and you're also going to lock up the crims. It was an extraordinary piece of salesmanship and I think naked fear mongering and I was very struck by a comment made by one of the CNN political commentating team afterwards who said that he found the vision of America that Trump set out there quite terrifying. He said this is a Mad Max view of America, an America I don't recognise. This was an Afro American commentator, not that Vanessa syrl changes his perspective, but I thought it was an extraordinarily worrying side of the American psyche. I think it was Trump the salesman selling snake oil, whipping up fear, selling himself and he doesn't care what it takes to get himself into the White House.It was interesting because at the same time he was talking to his base, he was also trying to assuage fears about we will be compassionate and considerate and his daughter had just been there women.
talking about what he could do for women. Do you think that would have worked in terms of the problem he's been having in reaching African Americans, Hispanics, female voters?I just felt that that was a couple of small bass notes in a speech, the underlying dynamic to me was whipping up fear of the other. If I was in a minority listening to that yrnish don't think I would have felt terribly reassured and what's going to be interesting is I was sitting there with my two daughters watching the speech and one of them said, "Is he going to be elected?" I said, "Well, the thing is no-one really knows." Who is he going to get out for the vote who hasn't previously come out for the vote? That's the great unknown. His primary appeal to me still is to the angry dis enfranchised working class, manufacturing class, all that stuff about we're going to start making things again. That to me is where the core appeal was and I don't know if there was enough in that speech to reassure minorities.He's ahead
certainly just starting to inch ahead in some of the polls. What did you make of it, Anooshe Mushtaq, with particular reference - I co your area of specialty is counterterrorism, radicalisation. He was very much talking to those who feel less safe, who feel afraid and who want to withdraw from a lot of the regions at the same times they're attacking Islamic State. What did you view of the way he positioned America in dealing with these threats?Yeah, I think generally he's trying to create a divide in my opinion and saying that when he mentioned about the NATO countries, that they want to pull out from that and... He didn't say and...They wouldn't pull out, he said if they hadn't paid the - if they hadn't made the right payments and right financial contributions, America wouldn't necessarily go to their aid which NATO responded to with some concern.That's right. They did. Also, like, what I see is when the US goes to wars or goes to military operations, they have their allies supporting them so how does he expect other allies supporting them when they do have some issues or military issues or terrorist attacks. He needs to thing about that. Also I think that he's not consistent in what he says. If he talks about security, needs to stop dividing people and that is one of the worst things he is doing, he is creating more hatred, creating more anxiety among people and that is fuelling the youth who are probably going to do the terrorist attacks and that is - he's not thinking about the defence mechanisms in security.What did you make of the speech, Pat?I see it slightly differently, Julia. The way I see things is Donald Trump is filling a void, no two ways about it. America is in dire straits and knouve got blacks verse whites on the streets, police verse the civil society on the streets. It is a mess over there and Americans are very, very pate reotic and they want to hear the rhetoric that their country can be the greatest country on earth. We're Tube go to the Olympics and everybody wants to know their country is the best. So he's curtailing to all of that. The second thing is very few politicians are prepared to say, "I will do this. I will do this." He's come out and he's saying that. Most of them dance around the subject. They don't commit to anything and this is why-Is the reason they don't commit to anything because deb was
some of the thing he's promising as deb was saying are very hard to achieve?Yeah, absolutely. That's the point. Most of the time politicians don't commit to things because they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. They have to check with their advisers, they need to find out from other countries if they'll get the support or not so, yeah, that's the answer to it all but having said that, the ordinary grassroots person down on the ground that knows not much about politics and not much about world affairs, they just want somebody to stand up and call it the way they think it is and say, "I will do this," and commit to it and he's doing that so he's answering the call. I think you'll see a completely different Donald Trump once, if he does get elected, once he gets elected. Ronald Regan was exactly the same. Everybody said, "How on earth can you turn an actor into being the President of the most powerful nation on earth?" And he turned around and said, "I will surround myself with the most knowledgeable people I can possibly find and then I'm smart enough to listen to them."You think Donald Trump will make a good President?I think he will answer the call.What's the call?The call is that America is in disarray at this point in time. It is wondering what they are doing on their own home shores, what they are doing in so many conflicts that so many Americans know nothing about. My time in America, they know a lot about their own little town. Very few of them even travel throughout the whole of their neighbourling
country and know enough about the neighbourling States.What is it about Trump? He's a polarising figure, he's been tremendously successful. He's accepted the nomination today. Why do you think he will be a good President? Because he's a successful business person so he's walked the walk and a lot of people talk the talk. I, along with everybody else e, was so pleased to say Barack Obama gut get the tune to be the Prime Minister of the country because we --to see Barack Obama get the opportunity to be the Prime Minister of the country because we saw it would give equality to everybody across the board. Sadly, it didn't. Sadly, he spoke so eloquently on so many subjects and I love listening to that man speak but unfortunately he's fought able to back it up with actions so --not able to back it up with actions. The American people have seen that.You think they won't care about Melania Trump inadvertently plagiarising Michelle Obama?I don't think they'll care as much about the words as the actions and at the end of the day he is who he is and where he is because of his kz as rather than his words. You've only got to listen to his words t is not the most eloquent speech in the world, not the most empowering speech, it doesn't move you that much but it is direct and it's said with conviction and I think that's lacking in politics.Let's talk about the question of terror when it comes to these country because Australian terror suspects may have their health records pored over as the Federal Government investigates whether there any link between radicalisation and mental illness. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has asked his top adviser Greg Moriarty to review the threat of lone wolf attacks in Australia in the wake of Nice and Orlando.What we're seeing at the moment is people being radicalised or adopting Islamist - murderous Islamist ideology very, very quickly so that you have people that are not on the counterterrorism radar screen who then often, as a result of mental illness, will then attach themselves to this murderous ideology and then act very quickly. Certainly anyone that's prepared to do some of the things we've seen around the world would tell me that's not a person that's stable. Mr Moriarty will also be looking at terror suspects' criminal histories as well as how large gatherings of people can be better protected. This review comes as Brazilian police swoop on a 10-man terror cell accused of plotting attacks during the Rio Olympic Games. Brazil's Justice Minister described the suspects as absolute amateurs and ill prepare but they had expressed support for Islamic State and wanted to buy weapons. If we can talk first of all about Australia and this probing of mental health records, what do you make of this? Is this a smart way to look into lone-wolf radicalisation?Definitely. I have been raising this for a while and I've said that there's different factors which involve a person becoming radicalised. One of them is extremist aidiology. --Extremist ideology and it depends on the interpretation of Quran as well and who are they connected with, their social settings, their home settings, what are their parents like, are they unemployed, but also if they are a part of drug and alcohol, if they're trying to find an identity or they have mental health issues. And if you look at the Orlando shooting, a lot of people said he was a terrorist involved with Islamic State. First we need to look at what was his mental health issues. I mean, in a Muslim community, being homosexual is not acceptable so it is somethingthat he was suffering with from a long time. He did get married but had very abusive relationship then he was found being a very angry man and all those things need to be taken into consideration and I think the same thing is with a man in Nice as well. Even though he was from through missia and he probably had some --from Tunisia and probably had connections with Islamic State or Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups in North Africa, if you look at the history, same thing, he used to beat up his wife, he used to drink alcohol.That seems to be a common thread. Is this something police should be conscious of when looking at domestic violence incidents as well?Exactly. I think ideology is probably they're trying to use that to find something and it is something that they're attracted to. It depends on what kind of mental illness they have, for example, we saw Khalid Sharouf who went to join ISIS, he had schizophrenia. These things have to be looked at. I'm not saying all of them have mental health issues, some of them are - it is a very well organised crime and we do have a problem here but also we need to look at changing some of the narrative. At the moment there's a big focus on deredicalisation CBE and preventative measures that people are taking but I think the experience of grassroot is missing, that's the missing ingredient. I just spoke at a security conference two days ago and these were the points I brought out to the Government, that it is really important to understand some of the religious aspects of this as well and also the mental health issues and also the drug and alcohol use. When you say some of the religious aspects, what do you mean? Differently to the way we're currently viewing it?In my opinion, what's happening is there's a lot of focus on deradicalisation. Prevention starts from the grassroot levels. It has to be Muslims who are involved, scholars who are involved, who understand why some of the radicals mis in terpret the Quran and put the mis interpretation in front of the youth.You often hear - I think there was an undercover journalist who wrote a piece for my publication, Sydney Morning Herald Fairfax last weekend, he'd gone under cover I think and spent a few months trying to befriend and get inside the heads of some of the disaffected young people from Islamic backgrounds who were very interested in the whole notion of IS's great romantic cause, they could go off and join or die for and what he was talking about was the disconnect these young people felt from the leadership of the mosques and the Islamic organisations, the gulf between the leadership who are often older and came out many years ago and these younger second and third generation Muslim men - mostly men it has to be said, although some have been women - so how do you manage that gap? What's the answer there?I actually attended national Muslim youth summit I think two months ago and there were about 200 to 300 Muslim youth there in Canberra and this was brought up there is a big disconnect between the leaders and the Muslim youth. I think because it can be out of respect for myself being a Muslim, I do respect my leaders and I think there's that respect element that I just go and can't talk to them about if I have drug or alcohol issues or if I have mental health issues and there's that gap and I think what the Government needs to do is look at filling in that gap. I have spoken to the Government a few times that what we need to do is create champions, champions who are from the Muslim community, young energetic people who are well integrated into the mainstream Australian society but also understand the cultural and religious aspects of these issues because they have to be addressed by someone trusted.What do you make of this, Pat, and how do you think we should be thinking about mental health in this regard?I think the saddest situation about terrorism across the board was once 9/11 happened the terrorists won, we lost our freedom. That meant from that point on everybody was under scrutiny and now we have medical records available to Governments. There was time back in the year 2000 where there was all this controversy - should we have an ID card, shouldn't we have an ID card and what details should go on there? Now Governments around the world turn around and say, "We need to know everything about you, we need to monitor your emails." They've already won. They've taken away our freedoms.I'm not sure we've gone that far. I think we're still debating these things but I would have qualms about this - I think there would be a lot of people out there perhaps-On privacy grounds?Yes, and I think the message being sent to people who might be wrestling with mental illness, and of course there's many more of them out there than perhaps the official figures reflect, are they feeling they're suddenly going to come under the sights of ASIO or one of the other intelligence agencies? I think the messaging has been blunt and crude and I think it would probably be wise for the Government to soften its rhetoric and messaging around this until it's actually practically worked out what it is trying to do. The devil is in the detail and the messaging is important.It is about changing the tone of discussion. That's why Muslims feel marginalised. Every time there's a terrorist attack the Muslims feel anxious because they think, "Are we being labelled as terrorists?" This is what I spoke about before, creating this divide is creating more problems for us than we could actually help each other.Stay with us now because you are watching The Drum.

It time for our Drum Roll now where we get our panelists to tell us about an issue they have been keeping an eye on lately. Talk to us, Pat, about a great Australian institution that I understand is under assault.This one goes to the core of everything that I represent and everything that I grew up with and that is - talk us through it. Vita Wheats, I understand, no longer allow the worms to come through. That may seem like a trivial thing for anybody else Remember this ad. It was a long time ago.No, I don't remember that ad. Not at all. But I do remember doing that and it was a bit of fun but not only that but shapes have lost their flavour, iced Vovos are not the same, they don't tace the tastes
same.I didn't know that.Nothing tastes the same anymore.I haven't seen Iced Vovos on the shelves for years.They are hard to come around. Maybe I'm buying them all but they don't taste the same.What is staying the same?That's a very anything.
good question. I don't know anything.It is a deep philosophical question.The word's changing and my biggest fear is that Vita Wheats will be lost and there will be a whole generation will grow up without knowing the experience of squeezing those Vita Wheats together. These days everybody wants to put pickled onions on, want to use avocado instead of butter for goodness sakes. Everybody is so healthy these days, can you believe it?Are you a worm person?Definitely. It is one of my fawnest memories from the playground in childhood along with trying to avoid the warm milk --fondest memories. Or trying to tip some chocolate flavour into it. Tell us about what you have been thinking about this week.Can have been - I was rather taken with the news earlier in the week that it was drawing on a survey done by Melbourne University called the household income and labour dynamic survey, Hilda, which is easier to remember. Saying that the rate of home ownership, especially amongst younger demographics, is dropping quite fast and that by next year, less than 50% of Australians are likely to be owning their own homes. You could say that in itself is not a worry except I feel that what we're not looking at is a housing policy that takes care of the people who are not able to get into homes they own. The renal market is a dog-eat-dog world --the rental market is a dog-eat-dog world to a large extent. Public and affordable housing is still a long way behind where it needs to be. I'm really not sure there's been a national approach to looking at perhaps how developers should be contributing to this problem and it's very much a State-by-State piecemeal thing, it is 1 of these things that gets dropped off the back of budgets all the time and I think we could do with a national housing summit or something of that ilk. The other bugbear of mine is I would love to see the Labor Party and Coalition come to the table gearing
with each other on a negative gearing policy both could agree on. You're right and it is a big generational issue. Anooshe Mushtaq, you wanted to talk about a gender divide when it comes to taxation?That's right. I was tampons
reading an exemption of tax for tampons and I think it is mainly about the hygiene products that they spoke about and I think it is really interesting to see because if we are going to do that then we need to look at other things as well like are we going to do the same for deodorants or for a washing product - I mean body washing or hand washing. So how far do we go in that?You think it is a slippery slope, do you, to huge tax concessions for women? (LAUGHS) I can't actually leave without asking you, Pat - we have an athlete on the panel as we pointed out at the beginning - I'm sure everyone's got their own athletic strengths, however, yours are widely known.I coached netball for a little while.Tell us what you think about the ban for the Russian athletes from Rio. Is this going to be an effective deterrent? Is it going too far?I think the IOC is trying to make a very bold statement here in putting a blanket approach across the board here and show a whole country that they can defeat this and stamp it out. The bottom line is that they can't and if you look along the lines of fairness, I don't think it's fair to the individual athletes. I think they all have an opportunity to be able to argue their case but to put a blanket across the board-Some can.Yes, some can. It is very difficult in a country like Russia for are anyone to stand up for their own personal rights and sadly they're all put into one bundle and it's very, very difficult situation so for the athletes, I feel for them more than anything but I understand where the IOC is coming in relation to all of this. They need to make a bold statement that drugs in sport are simply not allowed.Is another response also, Deb, that if it is endemic that maybe we should accept it is part of it, maybe we should regulate it. What's the best way?I'm not as au fait with the sporting world as Patrick obviously but I have some qualms about it. What about the individuals - and there must be some individuals perhaps in Russia who have done the right thing - how can you just blanket categorise one whole group of people as not eligible? We know there's doping in other sports, we know there's doping in other countries. To me it smacks of scapegoating to a little eblings tent and you also have to wonder --to a little extent and you also have to wonder in the current environment whether there's not been political pressures applied because of tenths going on in Europe between Russia and NATO etc. this
That's it for The Drum tonight and this week. Thank you to Deborah Snow, Anooshe Mushtaq and Pat Farmer. We'll be back again on Monday night. Hope you have an excellent weekend. See you next week.

. Mary, Queen of Scots,
is well known for her turbulent life, but what you may not know is that
she was also one of the first women to regularly play golf. It's said that when she arrived
in St Andrews in the 1560s, she brought along
her own set of golf clubs - in fact,
she brought them from France, where she'd learned as a child. Now, I've not played golf before, but I'm on the world's
most famous golf course, so I'm going to give it a go.

Oh.

Well, I think Tiger Woods
can rest easy. Welcome to a second round
of the Antiques Roadshow from St Andrews in Scotland,
the home of golf. (Bell rings)
# Theme music (Bird twitters)

When Mary, Queen of Scots,
lived in France as a member of the Royal Family, she had military cadets
to carry her golf clubs for her, and it's thought
that when she came to Scotland, she brought the practice with her, and the term 'cadet'
evolved into the word 'caddie'.

But Mary, Queen of Scots',
love of golf also placed her
at the heart of a scandal.

In 1567, Mary's husband -
Lord Darnley - was murdered. Now there was much speculation
at the time that she was involved in his murder, not helped by the fact that
she was apparently seen playing golf just a few days later.

So, not too bothered
by what had happened to him, then.

This is the oldest
of seven golf courses here. I wonder if they're
dusting down the trophies ready for the Antiques Roadshow, which we're holding in St Salvator's
Quad in St Andrews University.

Do you know what this is? Not really. I think it's Japanese.
Uh-huh. It was given to me by my mother
about 20 years ago. She likes going to charity shops -
still does - and anything with an animal on it,
she would give me - usually wooden elephants
and china ducks, and she gave me this,
and I thought it was different,