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Welcome to The Drum. I'm Julia Baird. Coming up - full of opinions but not keen to vote. Why it's millennials.
proving so difficult to enrol the millennials. Fair and proper. But entitlements
is just following the rules of entitlements enough for our federal politicians? And - life on the hustings. One handshake, one vote.

Joining me on tonight's panel - we have Labor's candidate for the West Australian seat of Cowan, Anne Aly; new Liberal Victorian senator James Paterson; and in Sydney, Greens candidate Clara Williams Roldan, who is running for the seat of Warringah; and Sarah-Jane Collins from Mamamia. Welcome, everyone. You too can join us if you're on Twitter, using the hashtag The Drum. In just a few hours the electoral rolls will close for the 2016 federal poll. And for hundreds of thousands of people, that will mean the end of their chance to have a say in this election. Many of them will be young Australians, with recent estimates by the Electoral Commission showing as many as half of all 18-year-olds won't bother this time around. While about 94% of Australians are on the roll, there's still about 950,000 that aren't, with a skew towards younger Australians. So now is the last chance to go on-line today and make sure that you're enrolled to vote, or your details are up to date if you've moved since the last federal election. It's not as if if their votes don't count. One recent survey found that seats
youth vote could be enough to swing seats in marginal areas. Soer they giving it to a pass? James Paterson, why are the major parties not tailoring their policies, not pursuing the youth vote more aggressively?I think we're doing a you
bit but but at the end of the day you can't force anyone to register. It's a challenge for all politicians to make the case to young people that politics does affect their lives, even in a great case
country like Australia.Why is the case not being made? I understand not
what you need to do, but why is it not being done?I think it is in in the Liberal Party's case, we have moment
in me the youngest senator at the moment in the chamber is a Liberal. In the lower house, Wyatt Roy the youngest ever MP is a Liberal. We were chosen in part because we're able to connect and reach out to young people in a way that older politicians might find more difficult to do. We're talking a lot about issues which I think are very important to young people, including the national debt. I want as many young people as possible to understand that if this generation doesn't fix the Budget crisis we face, it is going to be their generation that has to pay it back. OK. Do you think you would approach that wooing of that vote or educating a younger electorate, would you approach that differently to your older colleagues do you think?Definitely. It's about different issues, it's about different language, it's about different mediums. Older voteers getting near retirement mightn't be as concerned about the national debt as someone who is in their early 20s and just getting their first job. But the 430 billion be paid
dollars of gross debt will have to going to
be paid back at some point and it's going to be paid back by them with services.
higher taxes or less beneficial services. So they have to realise it does affect them.Anne Aly, what do you think is going on with the disaffection and disengagement of process?
younger people from the political process?I've got two sons in their 20s myself and I have worked for a think young
long time with young people and I think young people are engaging but they're not engaging with policies, they're engaging with issues. They're engaging with the issues that matter to them. They're engaging with issues around $100,000 university degrees. They don't want those. They're engaging with issues around housing affordability. But I also think that young people have found different ways of being politically active, that perhaps in many ways are replacing or becoming substitutes.What can replace a vote?Exactly. I think that being active on social media, for example, being active in other ways, a lot of the young people I work with are looking at digital start-ups an innovation and they're really in that kind of space at the moment and they see that as a form of political participation, participating in business, participating in innovation. So I think there's a point where perhaps they're so engrossed and I'm talking here from just speaking with the young people that I work with, they're so engrossed in these kinds of issues, that perhaps they're not seeing a need to vote, political participation
perhaps they're seeing that form of enough
political participation as being they
enough for them. But I do believe they certainly are engaging on issues that matter to them.I will have to go to you on this, Sarah-Jane. This is exactly the area you work in, digital participation, engagement, education. What's your take on it? It's really interesting that both the Senator and Anne have both people
raised these issues about young people maybe not feeling engaged with policies or maybe feeling more engaged with what's happening in the on-line space. The role of politics as I see it is to engage both of those things together, and bring young people into polling places to vote for policies that they care about. I think one of the key issues is we're not seeing a election
lot of discussion within the election campaign around how policies that parties are leasing affect young people or what they we're
mean for young people. Because if we're not talking about that, and we're not communicating those issues, then those people are going ways
to go on-line and find different ways to have their voices heard. I think that's what digital campaigning is about, I think that's what signing petitions on change.o rg is about. It's what Tweeting to your friends about things that matter to you is about. And it's not something that people are translating into casting a vote in a ballot box. I think that's a real question to be raised, James said we should - we can't compel people to be enrolled to vote. I kind of think if we're going to have compulsory voting we should be compelling people to do that.How? In New South Wales we have should
automatic re registration. We should have that across the whole country.James, would you support that?In some respect, even that doesn't work. When you compulsorily require people to register there are still people who don't register because their details are not available. Forcing them to be on the register if they're not going to turn up to vote won't help changes. The much bigger challenge for politicians is to make the things we talk about relevant to young people and motivate them to be want to be involved. I don't think forcing people is the right way to go about it.The fact is, we of
haven't got a Bernie Sanders kind of poll nis Australia right now, do need
we? So what do you think parties need to do to address this?I think it's a hugely important issue and obviously it's something I'm really passionate about as a young Greens candidate in this election. I'm someone who is a little bit politically involved, and engaged, and it's very difficult when you look at the statistics and think why aren't people engaging? I think part of it is that there's this feeling that a vote is just kind of a shout in the void especially for young people, because so many of the things politicians talk about don't seem to rethreat to us. Like gearing, most
when you talk about negative gearing, most young people can't even enter the property market. And so there's no obvious connection to how does this relate to me, how do that's
I engage with this? So I think that's one issue about how do you talk to young people, how do you make them see that you actually are hearing what they're concerned about? But the issue of guesting people to enrol is very difficult. One policy idea that the Greens have is that you lower the voting age, you bring it down to 16 when people are still in school and you educate them about civic rights but also civic responsibilities. That could be a way to get people more engaged and the fact you then have more time to enrol, so that's one option.So you think it's a question of feeling like even if they were to vote, nothing much in particular would change?I think that's definitely a huge problem, and from friends I have spoken to or just out n the campaign trail there's this huge dis em bow perment of young people. They think if they vote for a party that isn't one of the big two, or even if they two, it's lost and there's no real parties.
advocacy for youth issues in these parties. That's why things like March in May against university deregulation and the marches against the lock-out laws have been successful, because people feel connected to this sense of community, they can get out and do something. But they're not seeing their voices being heard by politicians at the moment.That's part of the disconnect, though, isn't it? There's 350,000 of them who aren't enrolled to vote and if they were, and they'd decided to vote based on their conscience and the issues that they cared about, difference
then it would have a say and make a difference in some seats and maybe that's one of the things that politicians need to be telling young people, is you can actually make a difference with your vote. happens
It could actually change what happens in the electorate and if it changes what happens in the electorate, it could change what actually happens in the Parliament as well.Definitely.All the different means by which our campaigners now try to grab the public's attention to say this election matters and we must be involved. One suggestion seems likely to spark some interest. Labor today signalled its intention to review the rules which were recently confirmed by the Tax Office. In a nutshell the rules allow MPs and senators to claim an allowance for rent in Canberra, even if it's a property they own. And then claim a tax deduction for the costs associated with that property. Before today, Labor was happy enough with the status quo and the PM says the matter should stay in the hands of the independent umpire.Now that this has received the appropriate amount of, if you like, scrutiny, it's clear in Bill's view and in Labor's view that this thank this needs to change going forward and we will make that change. Now, believe it or not, members of Parliament don't generally sit around studying their entitlements.I see that Labor has done an overnight backflip on this. The position has been for many years that the allowances and arrangements for what politicians are paid for travel expenses and so Remuneration Tribunal.
forth is set by the independent Remuneration Tribunal. It's very case.
important that that remain the everyone.
case.The rules are same for everyone. If there is a moral Australian
hazard it's the same for every Australian taxpayer. Anybody who has a a residence in a place other than where they work, they can claim the tax deduction.Now the Tax Office says the rules away to all taxpayers, but given the confusion, it's going to have another look T comes as the latest Newspoll puts parties neck and neck with less than six weeks to go. James Paterson, what's your view on this? The ATO has ruled on t but it's not a very good look for politicians to appear to double dipping when they're in Canberra? I'm a brand new senator, I haven't had time to even contemplate taking advantage of this let alone actually doing so. Do we really want the fox in charge of the hen house? I don't think politicians should get to set their own pay and that's
entitlements. It's appropriate that's done in an arm's length way by an independent tribunal. That's how you make sure that politicians are not meddling and mucking around with what they're entitled to. It's set by an independent bureaucrat. That's probably the best system. But beyond that, I think as a general rule, all politicians should be reminded that it's not sufficient just to do things within the rules. It's also important to do things in a way that if they became public, that they would not reflect badly on you and not sit outside the expectation of people in the public. If the people that sent you there think it's a bit all
unjustified and un then we should all think twice about it.What's your response to that and do you think the election campaign is the matters?
best time to be raising these are being
matters?Look I think if matters are being raised and as a matter of public concern and people are raising them then they should be addressed immediately. And you know, Labor has said that they'll review that particular rule, and the entitlements and I have faith that they will do that. I'm in the same position Not yet a' politician, so I haven't been in a position of having to make a decision around those kinds of rules but I can tell you as an academic, when I travel, I do get a travel allowance, that is set by the ATO, all academics get a travel allowance and it is set by the ATO. So there are certain things that are across the board. And like Bill Shorten said, this is something that Labor will review.Do you think we need a review here? Clara? I think it's a complicated area. you
Since I haven't been elected yet, you know, I'm in a similar boat. I don't exactly know the nitty-gritty of all the policy. But it does seem that if there is concern over even just the public's perception of politician, you know, acting in a way that they see as fit for someone who's representing them, of
then perhaps we need to take note of that, because I don't think that the public should be ignored especially by their own representatives.It's ultimately about a smell test, isn't it?Yeah. The other thing about issues like this is it's really easy for us to get caught up them in the media cycle talking about them all the time but how many of your average people down at the shops are thinking about politicians' entitlements?But it does get people enraged when they're encroached, don't you I?There's definitely a base level of: that doesn't seem like it's fair. And I think that's a problem for the optics of the campaign. But ultimately, I don't think people are walking in on polling day and going "I will vote this way because of this random tax situation." that
Let's talk about something else that a lot of voters do care about and are very vocal about. Still to do with money matters. Now, the always controversial area of political donations. In an interview for tonight's Four Corners program, former Liberal National Party Treasurer and fundraiser Michael Yabsley has spoken about donations from banned sources that were being funneled to the New South Wales party via a federal body. He said it was so illegal.
commonplace he didn't think it was illegal.I have spent a significant part of my life raising money in this way. And so there is something of the poacher turned game keeper. But that whole process has illustrated to me, it really is high time to do something about this, to eliminate what will always be a serious accident waiting to happen, and on many occasions, has been a serious accident waiting to happen.The Greens have also done some research into just how little is known about where the money comes from. Particularly when it's big companies signing the cheques. We've now just coming to completing a major project comparing the disclosures from the donors with the disclosures from political parties. And the figures in terms of the discrepancy are higher than we expected. It's coming in at about 7 to 8 million cars. And I find that extraordinary. Like it really shows that the current system is failing.According to the Greens, donations from corporations such as Visa, National Australia Bank, Woodside Energy and Mac carry group have not been disclosed as such by the major parties.That's coming in probably a bit over $3.5 million of those industries, those companies alone who are - were unclear who's accurate, is it the who's
political party or is it the donor Now
who's got the accurate disclosure? Now that shows that the system's failed. It shows a very cheer need for reform.Of course those grabs from the Four Corners program to be aired tonight. Now, Clara, can you tell us about this new research seems
commissioned by the Greens? It seems an extraordinary discrepancy all thorough we're certainly aware of some of it before now?What Rio Tinto Rhys's office has done is made a project called Tks for Sale. They've gone back through the records
Australian Electoral Commission records from 1998 and because all donations have to be disclosed. Before it was fairly impenetrable. the donations,
They've gone through, looked at all the donations, they've cat grised them so you can look at if it's lobby group,
from a corporation, if it's from a lobby group, you can see what party it's going to and while they were doing this, they were noticing that, 'cause corporations are also obliged to disclose when they have made political donations. There were donations made by corporations which were not coming up as being dis chosed as parties. They were not disclosed as donations. They were coming up as different things, named
like a subscription, or they were named different things which made it very unclear when you do analysis of how much of this political party's funds came from to do
fossil fuels or banks and you want to do that categorisation. It hides a lot of the data and makes it much less transparent for people to trying to understand what are this party's interests.Do you support further reform of the system, James?I have to point out that for donation
the record, the largest political donation in Australian history was $1.3 million, it was made by grey Greens
yam Wood and it was made to the election
Greens before the 2010 federal election so I think we should take all of their concerns with a little bit of a grain of salt. My view is that political parties should comply with the law as it is and do
that's absolutely crucial that they the
do so. But further regulation of the campaign finance system in any view is not a good idea. America has gone down that road, has an complex
incredibly highly regulated, complex campaign finance system. Has had had no effect on reducing campaign spending. It causes people to find other ways to try to influence politics that I don't think is a good thing. So I think we should be very careful before we contemplate extra regulation here. But America's not the only country that has greater transparency and greater regulation of disclosure. I mean, do you agree that it should be examined, that this is something that the public wish to see?I think actually by and large, Australia's political history is good and clean in this area. It there is no scandal, no issue that we can point to that has been caused by political donations in Australia. There is no decision the government has made which can be identified as being driven by remarkably
political donations. That is a remarkably good record. We have a remarkably clean democracy. We are rated at the top of all the global indices for corruption and anti-corruption, so I think the idea that we'd need radical reform I
here is not borne out.Any reform, radical
I mean, because there has been no be
radical corruption, should it not be the case that we should know, we million
should know that there's a $1.3 million being given, we should know by whom and when sphwhWe do know. think
The threshold is $13,000. Which I think is a reasonable threshold. I think donations above that amount should and are disclosed. But below that I think people who are making small donations to political parties shouldn't have the burden of bearing with that compliance and should have the opportunity to have their privacy protected, just as their vote is protected when they go into the voting booth, if they're making donation of small amounts like that.Anne, is this a question of protecting privacy? Look, first awful I don't think $13,000 is a reasonable threshold. The Labor Party has a long-standing policy of disclosing donations over $1,000. We're very strong on transparency and accountability. $1,000 is a reasonable threshold. Is it a matter of privacy? I don't think so I think people making donations to political parties know what they're getting into. But I do think as I said that Labor has had a very long-standing policy on this. We do disclose any donation who
over $1,000.James, what of those who will say to you that you worked for a long time with the IPA and people have been calling for the IPA to be more transparent with their donors as well? Is there some concern about whose interests are being protected when such things, major think tanks are not dis closed?I think it's appropriate a think-tank is regulated in a different way to a political party all a think-tank or any activist organisation can do is make arguments in the public domain. Political parties are different. We have the power to legislate and make decisions over public money. So it is reasonable that we face higher regulation. I think we've found the right balance in Australia between those two things. courted
It's not just the youth vote being courted in the lead-up to the its
election. As the campaign enters its third week, did you notice local candidates are doing whatever they can to make themselves known. And in the an era of social media they
and flashy advertising captains they say nothing beads an old-fashioned approach. Jade McMillan joined them on the hustings. These are the times of images we're used to seeing on the campaign trail. As political leaders crisscross the country with a huge press pack in tow. But the win
reality for candidates trying to win a spot in Parliament is a little more lonely. SONG: # I got bills, I gotta pay... #The Western Sydney seat of Reid is held by Liberal MP Craig lawn Laundy who is hoping for a second term. He claims to have knocked on more than 40,000 doors in the lead-up to the last election. Now, thanks to a redistribution, he's got more than 10,000 new That's me.
constituents to meet.This is you? That's me.You so handsome!Ha ha ha!There's a lot of at times arm's length between the constituent, the member of the public and the politics. I hate that. So it's just door knock something a great way to break that down.It's a task that comes with a unique set of challenges. Like literally wearing out the shoe leather and having to replace a resident's fence accidentally knocked down during an encounter with a German shepherd. That one experience cost me $1100. But I hope, I'm hoping that I may have got their vote.Over at a local train station, Craig Laundy's Labor opponent is already being hit with the tough questions.Craig Australian Dee has a great reputation for the refugees. What's your...Normal day is getting up early, you know, being the first at the station to greet the workers, catch up with the campaign team. Go through the diary of events an getting out and talking to the community leaders.He has servinged as mayor of one of the area's councils for 14 years. And knows the importance of face-to-face contact.Good luck to you.Thank you, thank you very much.Always grass
say, you win elections through grass roots. Politics is all about local issues.Election campaigns are challenging at the best of times. But with eight long weeks this time around, candidates need to work even harder to maintain momentum and to stretch their budgets. There's also the risk of voter fatigue. So how do people take to the personal touch?I'd be more inclined to vote for him now that I have seen him out there walking the streets and, you know, meeting the people. I think he's awesome.It's definitely a thumbs up from this side.I have never really met a Liberal member before. Sweats a lot, but it's a hard job. He seems very nice and very pleasant. Gives I think everyone a little insight into who you're voting for.Only six

Just six weeks! How are you going door knocking in Tony Abbott's electorate?Well, it's definitely been an interesting experience. Lots of friendly people. The people of Warringah are very friendly. They're awesome people. So I've met the
some interesting characters out on the beat. There are quite a few people who, when I talk to them, they get a bit - not upset, that's the wrong word, but very confused 'cause I look very young and to
they've no idea who I am compared to Tony Abbott of the he kind of looms large. They're kind of like: so what are you doing out here? I'm running
like this is me on my leaflet. I'm running for the Greens. It's been a great experience, because I mean what matters
the first question I always ask is: what matters to you in the lead-up what
to this election? Because that's what the job is, it's representing the people of Warringah.Have you been door knocked?You know I think I was out on Saturday when I saw a little team of Greens door knockers to
coming past. I was on my way back knocked in
to my house. I haven't been door knocked in this election yet.Would you answer if you had a knock on the door?I don't know. It's kind of like when anyone comes on a Saturday morning, you're a bit wary of opening the door but it is interesting to hear what local issues different campaigns are think.
trying to entice you with as well I think.James, how do you go with it's
door knocking?As a humble senator, it's less about me and it's more about the lower house candidates. As much as we'd like to think so, no-one's going into the voting day.
booth looking for our names on the day. For me it's about supporting those lower house candidates, door knocking with them and visiting local shopping centres with them to support their work.Does it change your mind? How do you find it, some people find it really gruelling, others completely awkward, others get out there and quite enjoy meeting a few characters.Yes, I think one of the reasons why I put my hand up for the Senate rather my
than the House, it's probably not my No. 1 preferred thing to do. But we've got some outstanding candidates here in Victoria who do enjoy that, who do really enjoy connecting with people and meeting them for the first time and hearing about their issues hand they do an you,
excellent job of that.How about you, Anne?I love it! I love it. I have loved every minute of it. I talking
love getting out there, I love talking to the people, I love listening to the people. It's a very humbling experience. Some of the stories are heartbreaking, heartbreaking. But some of them are very uplifting too.Tell us one of that's
them. What's been in encounter that's particularly struck you? I've had people on the phone crying to me, particularly pensioners, who are doing it really, really tough. The other day, I talked to a pensioner, pensioners who were spending $180 a fortnight on medications. That's a big chunk, a big chunk of a pension. And they were finding it really hard to survive and you know, she was in tears. I've had lots of people in tears. I hope it's not me! But you humbling
know, it really is a humbling, enjoyed
humbling experience. And I have enjoyed every moment of it.Have you been offered cups of tea?Lots of tea. Lots of Biggs kits. Lots of food.You have to have the biscuits don't you? People never forgot when Kevin Rudd refused Annabel Crabb's little - she made some tart. Baby pavlovas with the egg whites. Anyway, you always have to take the biscuit. That is it for The Drum tonight. Thanks to our panel, Anne Aly, Paterson pat, Clara Williams Roldan and Sarah-Jane Collins. Abc.net.au/thedrum for more. We're back again tomorrow night.



Today we're making a return visit
to Polesden Lacey, near Dorking in Surrey,
the home of Margaret Greville, a high-society lady
who wasn't all that she seemed. Three British monarchs
were entertained here not bad for a woman
who was born illegitimate, was raised in a modest
Scottish boarding house and who went to enormous lengths
to reinvent herself. Welcome to the Antiques Roadshow. # Theme music

Margaret Greville's mother
was a domestic servant. On Margaret's birth certificate
the father is just a man who happens to share the same surname
as Margaret's mother for respectability. They weren't married
and he wasn't Margaret's father. Margaret was the illegitimate
daughter of this man, William McEwan, the millionaire Scottish brewer, and when she grew up,
she inherited his fortune worth £65 million in today's money.

It really is a rags-to-riches story. And this Edwardian house,
gifted to Margaret by her father, is home to some of
the finest collections you can find anywhere
in Britain today. And they were amassed
over a short period of time in a series of shopping sprees.

Mrs Greville used art historians
to help her amass her collections. They were effectively
her personal shoppers.