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(generated from captions) really suit those beautiful

sunflowers that are flowering don't mind it either. I

received a beautiful sun flou

today. More heavy rain in Queensland is threatening to

delay recovery efforts in flood

ravaged area. England is in

control of the fifth and final

Ashes test. The visitors

finished day three at 7 for 4

88, leading by 2 08 runs.

That's ABC News. We'll leave

you tonight with Melbourne see's latest primate

attraction, a sue an Orangutan

getting her first taste of the great out doors. Closed Captions by CSI. Tonight on the '7:30

Report', Australian retail

giants declaring war on online shoppers. They

encouraged to send their money

offshore and stimulate overseas

economies rather than our own -

it doesn't make sense. But are consumers entitled to search out the best deal? Our big

retailers have fairly

second-rate online offerings

which again have driven people

to offshore sites that are far

more user friendly. This Program is Captioned

Live. Welcome to the program.

I'm Tracy Bowden. That story

shortly, but first to Rockhampton remain on high alert tonight.

The Fitzroy River has

stabilised at 9.2m, slightly

lower than the expected peak.

However, severe weather is now

being forecast for the area, bringing more rain. The size

and scope of this natural

disaster is unprecedented in

Queensland, and today the Bligh

Government announced a flood

recovery taskforce, led by

Major general Mick Slater.

Shortly I will be speaking to

the Rockhampton mayor, but

Guest. first this report from Annie

As the sun rose over the

flood-ravaged town of

Rockhampton, many were hoping

it would mark a turning point

for this city. for this city. With the Fitzroy

River predicted to peak as high

as 9.4m, it would signal the

beginning of the end of a

crisis that has seen hundreds

of homes flooded and thousands

of lives disrupted. Grab a bit

here and there, but you feel so

sick in your stomach, you can't

eat much. Oh, it's hectic because we're unsure of

how much water was going to

come. It's believed the river

peaked lower at about 9.2m. We know that we've hit

so now after it hits, wait a

day or two and then we've got

the homeward run. Mark and

Alison Ford moved here with

their daughter, Elizabeth, from

Sydney five years ago. Despite

never experiencing a major Rockhampton flood before, they

opted to stay in their island

floating. home. Our chest freezer and

My mother is going to kill

me. We've lost her old fridge

that she lent me when we moved up here. Some of Elizabeth's

toys and everything like that. My barbecue. The

barbecue. The gas bottle should be alright

I got that up the other day.

There is a lounge under there

that we've lost as well. Like outdoor settings. Mark and

Allison Ford can't get to their

jobs where they sell

spectacles, but even if they

could, there is little stock left. I'm thinking poor customers that have been

wanting their glasses and

everything else. They are

probably having trouble seeing

because they haven't got nature new glasses and them because we can't get

anything up here. But for some,

the fact that the river has stopped rising doesn't ease

their anxiety. Sherrie Morgan

won't feel better until it's over. You don't get much sleep,

that's for sure. You hear the

water. When you're asleep,

you're not asleep because your

mind is thinking all the time where is it going to go and

hear you boats roaring past in

the middle of the night,

they've got to slow down,

that's for sure. What are the boats doing in the middle of the night? Probably coming it pinch stuff out of people's

houses. Cherie's husband is a

truck driver but there are no

delivers for him, so they're

relying on her kitchen hand

salary to feed them and have

appealed to their bank to suss spend their mortgage

repayments. The Morgans have taken shelter in but return almost every day to

collect more of their things

and check on their home. Not

very nice, that's for sure.

Very scary, really. We've seen someone's

yesterday. Wasn't nice to see

that. You feel sorry for those people as well. We've lost

quite a few cupboards and pool

tables and everything we

couldn't move and there is a

lot of other stuff under the

house - tools and my son's room

is under the house. He has lost

his bed and a his room and a washing machine

and stuff we couldn't move

upstairs. At the Rockhampton

showgrounds, a number of

people, livestock and cars are

staying dry on the higher ground here. 42-year-old Shane

Muirhead prougt what he could

from his swamped home. Mate,

we've got a bit of everything

from under the house and out of

the sheds. We've got our lawn

mower, a couple of scooters and

stuff that we use for work, so,

yeah, some birds, dogs,

only thing we haven't got is

the cat. From here, he

continues his job as an

Operations Manager for a local security company. Still be

boating them in and out from

Hastings. Shane Muirhead has to

send his security guards to

look after major industrial

operations that have been shut

down and isolated because of

the floods. One of those

companies is an companies is an engineering works called Hastings deering that employs 600 people. So

we've actually got twice a day

boat them guys out to in a boat and boat them back

in, in the afternoon, carrying

fuel out and back to keep the generators running at Hastings

for the computer for the computer system, so,

yeah, we're very

busy. Sometimes the only safe

place for his guards is the

roof. There's a lot of snakes

hundred yards and, I mean, a lot - like every

hundred yards you will see a

snake, and they're just

fears of the locals is the everywhere. One of the biggest

problem of looting. We've had a couple

like in boats and stuff. I

don't know if they've been

looting or they were just

sightseeing, but, yeah, they

where they wr, but they were, probably shouldn't have been

so they could have been

looters, you know what I

mean? Outside of Rockhampton,

the mining industry is counting

the multibillion-dollar loss

with many coalmines unable to

operate. Farmers are also

watching the costs mount. Crops

have been an annihilated and

other producers are also struggling. Anne Kirk is from a

cattle property outside of

Rockhampton and she is bracing

herself for the clean-up and

fencing repairs when she

rurs. Of course, you can't get your your heavy machinery down

there. It's all done usually

with 4-wheel motorbikes so it's

very difficult to do it as the

water goes down and a lot of

your wire gets totally

submerged in mud and sand,nd so

that's very hard to do. Annie

Guest with that report from Rockhampton. Earlier today I

spoke to the mayor of the city,

Brad Carter. Brad Carter, what is the situation at the moment in Rockhampton? We estimate

that we've had about up to 500

people self-evacuate from their

homes. We haven't had to

initiate any forced evacuations

at all, so that's a very good

outcome and we've probably got

in excess of 120 people that

are currently staying at the

emergency evacuation centre out

at University on the northside of

Rockhampton. What are the plans

for the day as head and what

are your priorities going to

be? Well, up to now the

priorities have been to ensure

community safety and to

after, protecting and

pre-verving - pre-sering our

critical community

infrastructure. We're about to

kick in the response plan. The response functional

response functional group has

met and we're now looking -

sorry, that's the recovery

functional group, so we're now looking at planning the

recovery. What we're going to

find is that the river height will

probably for about 36 hours and

then it will go down very

slowly, probably taking about

10 days to get below 7m. During

that period we'll start to think about how we get people back into their holes that.

Will be a high priority, but

the sad thing is that many

people from our community who have self-evacuated, been

without of their homes for

about a week t will possibly about a week t will possibly be

another two weeks before they get

get back into their homes and

sadly some of those people will

have to clean up a fair degree

of mess with above their floorboards. Other

also be more fortunate they,

they will be able to move back into their homes. What sort of

checks will need to be carried

out before people are allowed to move back into their

homes? We've had over 600 properties from their

electricity supplies. We've got advice from Ergon enj I this

morning that it's just not a

simple matter of turn

reconnects and turned back on. In some cases the switchboards

are older, you might need

switchboard s in houses and

power boards. So there are

those issues to be looked at.

Woo he need to look at health

issues and how the community

rallies together. And then the infrastructure, the very

streets on which these houses are, how

are, how to clean them, get

them into a safe standard. This

is the second flood peak we've

had in three weeks. The river

peaked at 7.65 just over weeks ago, receded and came up

again today. So one of those

things we'll find during the

re-veeding floodwaters, a stench starting to come in, the

stench of rotting vegetation, the issues of vermin, health

issues. We've have been getting

out a message about the

importance of not walking importance of not walking in

this water. We've encouraged

everybody who hasn't had a

tetanus shot to get the tetanus

shorts, but this recovery phase

will be significant and we'll

also be required to also be required to get our

community going again. You've lived in this region for a long

time. You know a lot of the

locals. What's it been like for

you during this crisis to see your community going through

this and also to know the hardship that lie as

head? Well, look, I've got to

say that I've been very

impressed with the community resilience, the support that

our community has shown for one

another. They've behaved very

responsibly. The majority of

people have heeded the people have heeded the advices

that we, as ady as ter

management group have been

getting out to our community

and because of the discipline, the community support, everything has gone

very well. I'm not aware of any serious injuries and at this

stage there has been no loss of

life, so that has worked very well. If you look on the

lighter side, there are some

great characters in this

community, many people who have

lived in these areas that have

become inundated with water,

and to see the characters with their sense of humour

supporting one another and I

very rarely do I get a

complaint from people about

what's been done for them in

this particular disaster that there may be more rainfall

in the region. What might that

mean? Look, we don't think it

will have any impact at all on

the flooding levels unless

there is

in a local area with a very

heavy down pour and it may

cause some localised flooding. The rain

The rain that we're expecting

which could be anything from 50

to 100mm over the next few

days, it's unlikely to have any

impact, but it what it will

create is a lot of

inconvenience for these

dedicated emergency service the orange uniforms, the State Emergency Service personnel

that are doing a fantastic that are doing a fantastic job. The Queensland Police Service

has increased their level of resourcing by about 60

personnel. High-clearance

vehicles. One of the concerns

our community has raised is

that when they depart from

their homes and evacuate their

homes, they're very concerned

about criminal activity and

looting. Police have really

stepped up their presence. 24

hours surveillance they've been

providing in these low-lying

Areases. Their presence is presence of police very early

in the morning at first light you

you can see them driving around

and the Water Police patrolling in boats through these areas

and I've got to describe the

situation this morning again as we went in boats through these

flooded areas, we actually

drive up the street in a boat

and you say we'll turn left

into East Street and turn right

into Bolsover Street but you're

in a boat. The number of people

on their balconies, you would

yell out, "How are you going,

how are you faring?" They would give you true Aussie spirit coming

through and the amount of blue uniforms indicates a great deal

of confidence that the

community is being looked after and the support we've had from

the Australian Defence Force with their presence here and

the relocation of Black Hawk

helicopters has given this community a sense that the

Federal Government and State. State Government are very

serious about the impact and wellbeing on this

community. Brad Carter, thanks for talking to us Thank you. All the Australia's biggest and best

known retailers are squaring

for a fight with the Federal Government over foreign

imports. They're up in arls those not having to pay import

or GST on products. But some

say these companies are missing

the mark and there are bigger

issues besetting the retail

sector which employs moor than

a million people. Tanya Nolan

reports. Most of the retail stores may be in the grip of post-Christmas sales,

but there's always a bargain to

be found on the Internet. be found on the Internet. I

think there is also an element

of excitement, something coming

through the post from online

does get inside people and

frankly, going into a lot of

retail stores is a fairly predictable mundane experience by comparison. Surveys show

that clothing and footwear

along with travel goods, books, CDs CDs and home appliances are

amongst the most popular online

shopping services. Online

shopping has become a battlefront for retailers. We're talking about

overseas retailers versus

Australian retailers. Ironically David

Jones scrapped its online store

in 2003 claiming it cost the

company too much money, and in

2008 the then CEO Mark

McGuinness told investors the

company had no intention resurrecting it. The concept of

retail therapy is alive and

well. People like to go

shopping and you've got to try

things on to see the way they look. From look. From our perspective,

that's everything. David Jones

has since had a change of

heart, re- launching its online

store just before Christmas,

but it's joined with other big

retailers, including Myer,

Harvey Norman and Target in a

campaign to lobby the

Government over what they

describe as an unlevel played

field, the fact that retailers are exempt from import duties and GST on purchases under a thousand dollars. Our sales are reduced

because consumers can immediately get a immediately get a $200 benefit for every thousand dollar

purchase that they buy

offshore, that will obviously

impact our services, we have to

cut back our floor staff and

eventually you will see it in

the form of redundancies. We

don't want to see a situation

where Australian consumers are penalised just because They shouldn't be encouraged to

send their money offshore and

stimulate overseas economies

rather than our own. It doesn't make sense.

This is about technology, not tax and tax and you can't be like King

Kanut and turn back the waves

of that technology. It has

already swamped the royal court

f you like. Really it's a red

her ring, it's a distraction.

We want retailers to embrace the new technology and part of

this story, I'm afraid, that

our big-rate retailers have fairly offerings which again have driven people offshore. No-one

can put an exact figure on how much Australians spend on

overseas purchases, but best estimates

estimates range from $3.5

billion to $13.5 billion or

more. The amounts may be a

fraction of the $250 billion

the retail sector generates

annually but the big retailers

say the money is not insignificant. They're prepared to

to spend millions on a mining

tax-style ad blitz in a hope of

realising change system. Bill Shorten says the Government won't be

bullieded. Some of the big

retailers live in a world where

they think if they pick up the

phone to a government

then the next day there will be

a tax on implementing their

wishes. That's not the way this

government operates. The Productivity Commission will

have public consultations. Then

they will have - if they like

the big retailers submit their

ads as arguments. The big

retailers aren't happy with the Productivity Commission's review into the Australian retail

take too long to address their

concerns. But they are at odds

with others in the industry.

The Australian retailers

Association says there other issues besieging the

industry and a productivity

review is the best way to review is the best way to deal

with them. We have one of the

highest rents in the world, so

I think that's an impediment in

retailing. If you take us against some of the Asian

retailers and the Asian web

retailing sites, we have to pay superannuation, payroll tax, workers' compensation, all

those things. Some of those are

not payable by those retailers

overseas, so from an perspective we are behind the 8-ball when we start. Boutique

owner Sir ray Pakall supports

the GST campaign by the bigger

retailers but instead retailers but instead of

fighting the trend to online

shopping, she is embracing it ,

offering the customers to shop

online or at one of her four

boutiques in Sydney and

Melbourne. Our customers use online shopping for research,

that they can go online to see

what's available before they

come in store. For us it's fastest growing but smallest

store part of our business. I think particularly if the

customer feels they can come

back to an actual store and

speak to an actual person, then they

they get the reassurance of not

just being a faceless Internet site. While the Federal Government has asked

at the GST on imported goods,

there is good reason to doubt

that it will change. The board of taxation concluded that

reducing the not be administratively

feasible. 44 million articles

of mail come to Australia.

Customer tomorrows officer can

open perhaps 4,000 articles of

mail a year. That's 2,000 hoirs

opening a parcel every half

hour and checking value. Very

expensive to check this system.

But the big retailers But the big retailers won't be deterred. It's a

government-imposed tax and the Government has just forced

retailers to collect it on

their behalf. So I don't see that as being competitive. I

think that is us being

penalised and what we're asking

is that that penalty be

removed. Tanya Nolan with that

report. Still in cyberspace, in

recent years, social media

sites such as FaceBook and

Twitter have been hailed as a valuable new tool in

for democracy. Back in 2009, protests against the disputed

elections in Iran were transmitted transmitted via Twitter, leading

leading some commentators

dub it the Twitter Revolution,

but in his new book, 'The Net Delusion: The Dark Side of Internet Freedom', Evgeny

Morozov of Stanford University

warns that the phenomenon is also assisting

also assisting the cause of awe

authoritarian regimes with governments mastering the use of cyberspace for disseminating propaganda and for surveillance

of dissidents. I spoke to

Evgeny Morozov today in the Washington studio. Evgeny

Morozov, your book is 'The Net Delusion'. How have we

been deluded? Well n two ways.

First I think the Internet will

help promote democracy and that it will actually lead to

greater good and more people

being empower. I think this is

one element of the delusion and

the second element is a bit

more pragmatic. The belief that governments like the American one or the European Union would

actually be able to use the

Internet and technology and new

media to promote democracy

around the globe. So in a

sense, it's being sense, it's being deluded about the impact of the Internet

itself, but also being deluded

about the ability of Western

governments to use the Internet to promote democracy. Let's

focus on the Iran legses. You

write of a type of techno

utopiaism among journalists and politicians, some of whom labilityed the labilityed the protests of the Twitter Revolution. You say

that claim is hollow. Can you

explain that? I think there was

definitely an amount of

enthusiasm about the role that

Twitter played in promoting the

protests in 2009 when people poured into

poured into the streets. If you have a look at the data a bit

more closely, what you see is

that Twitter played the

greatest role in actually

publicising these events and

getting the information out. It

was not instrumental in getting people

people into the streets. What

happened afterwards, I however, was completely lost in

much of the media coverage.

What happenside that the

Iranian Government started

tracking everything that was

supposed - Twitter, FaceBook,

started collecting photos of

people who participated in the

protests, started posting them

on government sites and asking

people to identify who those

people were, they started

sending threatening FaceBook

messages to Iranian as broard,

telling them not to get

involved, and of course all of

the Iranians who were careless

enough to go and post FaceBook messages

under their real names got into

trouble. Eventually, some of

them were investigated, some of

them were interrogated and so

forth. In this last element, the Government actually using

information published online,

that was not actually covered

as widely as the Twitter

Revolution that more or less

failed to get any gains for the Iranian

Opposition. So would you say

that digital campaigns would

have to be come #3w50i7bed with

some sort of main streen movements to be effective? Yes, the Internet

the Internet is more effective

when it's used by political and

social movements and people who

are actually knowledgeable

about new media and who know

how to raise money online or

how to raise money online or to rally people around political

causes. However, I think there

is also a darker element of

this as well because in many

states I have been studying

like Beirut, Russia, China,

Iran, we also see that a lot of

young people are actually eager to participate in

politics for virtual means and

for many of them there is this

thing called virtual politics

and by joining FaceBook,

posting messages to Twitter,

they are actually effecting

change on the ground, and I

think from this perspective,

many of the traditional and

social and political

may actually be losing a lot of potential contributors. Do you

think we need to get a better

handle on what governments are

doing to control the

Internet? Sure. I think we have initially got very misleading

view of how the governments will be controlling cyberspace.

The assumption that many The assumption that many people

made in the '90s was that all

of this control would be happening through Internet

censorship. We all heard about the Great Wall of China. The

article appeared in 1997 via a magazine and since then the viral of China has become

lead ing metaphor for thinking

over the Internet. However, we

also need to pay attention of

other means which government

control the Internet. Some of

them include cyber attacks and

the cyber attacks are also in most cases anonymous. They are very hard to trace to whoever

ordered them because so the

government is also spared much

of the blame. So I think what

we need to do over the years is

to basically get the more

sophisticated view of what control of the Internet

entails. It's definitely more

than censorship only. As I

mention, it's also propaganda, governments trying to

manipulate public opinion

online, also governments, particularly governments like

Russia or China, having their

government going to all the areas purchase big companies on the Internet

and then enforce very and then enforce very strict

freedom of expression there. So

we do need to get more

sophisticated vocabulary, what

actually counts as censorship

and go beyond. What do you

believe is the best way forward? How should this tool

be used? Well, the major

question that I've been trying

to answer in the book is how

the Western governments, how

Western the American government, the

and also the Australian Government, how they can

actually go about using the Internet to promote democracy

and try to defend democracy and

I think the best way to do it

accountable is to actually be as much

accountable as possible to the

social and political and cultural conditions on the

ground. What needs to happen is

for these governments to stop

making big assumptions about

the Internet because there is very little in common that the

fact of the Internet will have

on Russia and China and a

country like Venezuela. The The country like Venezuela.

effect of the Internet on the

society in those countries will

be different. In a country like

Russia, you do need to consider

the impact that Internet have on religion, on

nationalism, on corruption, on

government legitmacy and many

of these factors will have a

rather dubious effect on demock

kra advertisation. It's not

certain that the fact that

Russian nationalists get

empowered will actually have a positive positive contribution to the process of demock kra

advertisation in rush sha. We

do have to consider all these

conditions. So my message is stop thinking about the

Internet, start thinking about

politics and then see how the

Internet affects it. Evgeny

Morozov, thanks for speaking to us. Thanks so much for having

me. That's the program for

same time tomorrow, but for tonight. We'll be back at the

now, goodnight.

? Theme music (Applause) evening, good evening, good evening, Good evening, good evening, good for another thoughtful rummage and welcome to QI, of life. through the great laundry basket and shrunken oddities Who knows what mismatched we will happen upon tonight? are Alan Davies... Delving alongside me this evening ..Rich Hall... (Applause) ..Sean Lock... ..and Jeremy Clarkson. (Applause) Now, tonight's questions are completely barking, so we have buzzers to match. Sean goes... (Two quick barks) ..and Jeremy goes. (Growling) (Howling) Rich goes... (High-pitched yapping) ..and Alan goes. Aww. (Laughter) Alan's favourite subject, actually, Well...and we start tonight with which is the ancient Greeks. (Laughter) (Groans) Yes. joined up the dots of the night sky Now, the Greeks rather like this. into vast, imaginary figures, constellation competition, In tonight's That...that is... panel... a famous constellation - So, there we have constellations, as I'm sure you know. Libra, one of the Zodiac is to make a constellation. Your challenge, team, using your skill and judgement, You have to join them together, throughout the joyous half-hour that lies before us, like a desert stretching into infinity. You have a silver pen... My pen's run out. My goodness me, the nation's gonna be on tenterhooks., Jeremy, how long would it take you to drive to outer space? Yes, outer space. Outer space? What is officially 'outer space'. That's...uh...23 minutes. (Laughter) I could believe that, actually. from earth, or is it from the sun? Is outer space 'outer' as in It's just from us. No, from... Is it? And it's just above where I am. I'm nearly at the edge. If you're tall. But it's 600 miles... the top of the ionosphere. It's actually... the start of space, And that's widely considered to be to be outer space, I don't know. but whether that's considered as outer space? Are you counting that No - outer space begins, Federation Internationale de Space, according to Who are French. or something... Yes. (Laughs) Quite. It's actually only 62 miles to outer space, straight up. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. Oh, OK. RICH: Wouldn't it depend on the traffic? 62 miles... Yeah. what you're saying is outer space. a man called Joe Kittinger Did you know there was balloon at that height? 1961. who once jumped out of a hot air Oh, 'Dead' Joe Kittinger? (Laughter)