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(generated from captions) decent-paying jobs which is part of the obligation when the company was first privatised 20 years ago. For more on the crisis, Tony Abbott. I'm joined by the Opposition Leader Good morning. the Fair Work Australia decision. Unions are claiming a win from Do you agree? Look, I think, David, we have had 48 hours of chaos because the Prime Minister wasn't big enough to Minister wasn't

Alan Joyce's calls. It is clear the Minister wasn't big enough to return government knew all along the crisis was building. The government didn't do anything, so many people have been sitting in terminals because the Prime Minister was sitting on her hands. So I her hands. So I think it's great the her hands. So

planes will be back in the air soon. I think it's a real pity onvoidable crisis has hit the travelling public. Apart from taking the phone call, which as you say does seem extraordinary, what else could the government have done? If the government had been serious they could have is used section 431 of the Fair Work Act. They could have, on their own motion, terminated the dispute and that would have meant the Qantas grounding wouldn't have taken place and this 48 hours of chaos have been avoided. and this 48 hours of chaos would Is that how you would have fixed the situation? Look, the government is expected to sort these things out. And 23 if you have got the legislative powers you should use them. Now, Julia Gillard wrote the act, she should know what's in it and she should have used the powers that she gave the government to sort out very serious industrial disputes like this. What sort of conflicts do you think are within the Gillard government, so many of her ministers, come from that union background. Do that union background. Do you think that is sort of an inherent bias within the cabinet? There is no doubt that's true, Kochie. Tony Sheldon is likely to be the next President of the Australian Labor Party, in effect, he is Julia Gillard's boss. Everyone knows her position is hanging by a thread. It is depend ntd upon the union power brokers, the faceless men, I think that explains why the government was so releck so releckitant to get involved. When it did get involved it didn't take all the action that it could have. If it had taken that action, this crisis would never have happened. OK, there is three weeks of negotiations now, no disputes. 21 days. If there is no resolution between the parties in that 21 days, Fair Work Australia will rule. do you think they should rule? Fair Work Australia will rule. How Well, obviously, Qantas has be competitive. Now, I certainly Well, obviously, Qantas has got to don't presume to go through every fine detail of the union claims and the company's counter-claims but at the end of the day, Qantas has to be a competitive airline and the the end of the day, Qantas has got management have got to be able to have the freedom to run the airline, because if Qantas management have got one hand tied behind their back, well, then, the company can't really survive for the long term. would be a disaster for the workers, survive for the long term. That it would be a disaster for the travelling public and it would be a disaster for Australia. Do you think this is a cross-roads decision for industrial relations in this country? Do you see the outof this dispute having the same importance as the show down on the wharfs a couple of years ago under the Howard Government? Well, there is no doubt Alan Joyce and his board took a big risk. But they obviously had carefully calculated the situation. They had certainly done everything they possibly could to alert the government to the dangers that they were facing. And it is hard to credit that a responsible government would have been so inert in the face of this gathering storm for the Australian travelling public. Now, yes, Qantas has had a win. I yes, Qantas has had a win. I think the public have had a win. But it is no thank taotz Gillard government. O tay, Tony Abbott, thanks for Julia Gillard, will join me live And the Prime Minister,