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This Program is Captioned Live # Theme music I'm Waleed Aly. Hi there and welcome to Big Ideas, Thomas Friedman Among our Short Cuts today, about America. on why he's still optimistic looks to science and nature Belgian entrepreneur Gunter Pauli to create 100 million jobs. for his dream of 100 innovations a star-studded panel Plus some awkward moments at discussing how they've turned celebrated novels into a movie. one of Patrick White's most a sex scene by your father? What's it like being directed in (Laughter)

Like being in a Patrick White novel. What can I say? It's absolutely brilliant. I highly recommend trying it.

and have them come over to the room Call a family member

with somebody. whilst you simulate sex It's really enjoyable. her father Fred, More from actress Alexandra Schepisi, and have them come over to the room plus Geoffrey Rush adaptation of The Eye of the Storm and the team behind the film a little later. But first, Bess Nungarrayi Price for Independent Studies, in a keynote at the Centre turns her attention the outspoken Indigenous leader to remote Indigenous communities. One of the big problems, she says,

and whitefella laws. is straddling both blackfella with outdated and unhelpful ideas But comfortable white liberals also get a mention. of our culture There are those who know nothing who will tell you that it should - we should keep it unchanged and any attempt... ..to change it 'cultural Genocide'. to change, they call it ignorance, despair. They want us to live in poverty, that we should keep our culture There are those who tell you like whitefellas but also work regularly

and pay off mortgages. the impossible. They are asking us to do My father, he was born in the desert. when he first saw his white man. He was probably about 10 or 11 she first laid eyes on white faces. My mother was also a child when

They worked all their lives Christians. and they called themselves

They went to church regularly everything about whitefellas. and my father was very keen to learn about white law He did not understand everything but he respected it. to be educated the white way They wanted us, their children, as well as their way. and write English They wanted us to speak and read and to respect whitefellas. my sister's husband I was promised in marriage to and be his wife when I was 13. and I was supposed to go to his camp I rebelled and didn't want to go let me get away with that. but my father and my promised husband at my age They didn't beat me like other girls go to their promised. who were refusing to a younger man instead. I had a violent marriage to were happy and supported me My parents and all my family my white husband. when I decided to marry they had a white son-in-law. They were proud and happy that my father had gotten blind At the time when he used to meet them - and he used to tell people 'My son-in-law's a white man.' when he used to say that, To laugh at that at times they know that he's a white man.' 'Yeah, Dad, (Chuckles) when our daughter, They were proud and happy no, doesn't speak our language well, who doesn't speak English - and spoke English. but did well at school and marry her promised husband. They did not insist that she go They wanted her to be free. are going to find answers If our people to the problems that are killing us, their way of life. they need to change We should give up our violent ways. Our laws - Our law allows capital punishment, it allows violent payback, it tells us to fear sorcery. it's all about control. So, it's all control -

It was controlled then, as we speak - it still controls people's lives now, as I speak.

that sends our people mad. But now we have grog and gunja Men and women, young and old. We didn't have money, now we gamble

and give our money away to kinsmen, and gunja and gambling. who spend it on grog that we can't say no to family. Our old law tells us that gives us the tools There's nothing in our old law to deal with all these problems whitefellas have brought with them. that come from the new things that whitefellas have brought, But my people want the things that that comes with these things. they just don't want the law they are superior to women Our young men are taught that simply because they are men. that they have the duty They are taught and their own honour with violence. to defend their family's they break the white man's law. When they follow our law, they break ours. When they follow the white law, They don't know it's wrong, basically for one simple reason what the whitefella law is. and that is nobody is teaching them of our young men. That's why the jails are full

than they are in the streets They are safer in there and the communities.

The families - when they are locked up. their families are relieved

We've even had family members go and...abuse somebody who deliberately so that they could get locked up - this is during December, a good feed and be looked after because they know that they can get over December/January. go out of their way So they deliberately to get themselves locked up as well,

knowing that they are going to be looked after. But we need to change. We don't need English speaking, urban Indigenous people and white academics telling the government what it needs to do for us. Government's should talk directly to us, not only to the organisations that have let us down, as much as government's have. My people need to be challenged. There's much that is good about our old law, there's much that's wonderful about my heritage as well but there's also much that simply doesn't work anymore, that is keeping us ignorant and in poverty. There's much that is killing us. These Aboriginal leaders who have failed for years should really listen to the few old people we have left and make way for new younger people who have new problems to face. These young people need a real education like the one I got with my parents' support. My people are linguistically talented - much more than the average whitefella. For some reason the schools haven't taught our kids to speak English properly, let alone read and write it. If they had taught them properly, then they could speak for themselves and we wouldn't have all these other self-appointed ones speaking for them. We can change our laws so that it works better but only we can do that. We can learn to use what whitefellas have brought into our country without those things killing us. Men can treat us women as equals without losing their dignity. We can get back to what our old law was really about - the protection of our families and our country. We can learn to take responsibility for our own problems, for the care of our own kids and our families the way the old people used to do it. To do this we need the support of government but governments can't do it for us.

We should not put up with whitefellas telling us

that we are nothing but victims. We need to be as brave and as thoughtful as the old people who lived in harmony with one of the world's toughest environments. We need the courage to change and to get our people motivated to develop and drive our solutions - our own solutions, that is. I'm not going to give up just because I'm only a woman or just because I'm married to a white man - as...everybody accuses me of being married to a white man and I'm influenced by him. So I can't really speak for myself because everybody thinks that it's Dave's thoughts and voice that I'm speaking by. I've got my own as well. I'm an optimist and I'm going to keep battling away to make a better future for my grandkids. I have three grandsons and I am not allowing my grandsons to go through our law because what I've seen for the 20 years that I've been around, it's just not working for our young men. Our young men have lost their way in life. And we need all the help that we can to help our young men. So, thank you for coming and listening to me. Bess Nungarrayi Price at the Centre for Independent Studies in Sydney. And you can head to our website if you'd like to see that event in full. Next up, Thomas Friedman, the New York Times journalist, columnist and author has won three Pulitzer's for his incisive and entertaining analysis of global politics and economics. His latest book, That Used to be Us, looks at the American Empire in decline. After his address at the Melbourne Town Hall for the Wheeler Centre, he told Maxine McKew about the forces he thinks are driving the world and what can be done to make America great again. Woody Allen's dictum that 90% of life is showing up,

is no longer true. Just showing up for work will not cut it anymore.

Just being average won't cut it anymore. America's economic future will increasingly depend

on how well we are able to get our whole country to resemble Garrison Keillor's fictional Lake Woebegone. Where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking,

and all the children are above average.

Average really is over in a world where so many machines and available farm workers can do average or better. The curve everyone is being graded on is now much higher. What was average work will not return average wages, let alone above average. The old saying that 'if all you ever do is all you've ever done, all you'll ever get is all you ever got' is also no longer applicable. Now if all you ever do is all you've ever done, most likely all you'll ever get is less than you've ever got, given the hyper-connecting of the world. So, what it means is everyone, me, you, has got to find their extra. Now everyone's extra is going to be different. For me, hopefully, it will be writing a better column.

For someone else it will be maybe inventing some software. For someone working in a nursing home, it may be engaging with elderly people in a way that truly brightens their day. How many of us who have an elderly parent or relative in a nursing home, and you come there and you find there's that one worker who really does put a smile on mum or dad's face every day. How much is that worth? How often do we pull aside the manager and say 'you know what, Sue, I want Sue to work with dad every day. And I'll pay a little extra for that. Every one of us is going to have to find our extra. And what education is going to have to be about, is nurturing, teaching and inspiring people to be their own startup. We all - my friend Reed Hoffman is about to come out with a book that he wrote recently, which I really like, it's called The Startup of You. And all of us in a way are going to have to think like startups. To find our extra. Let me end by just making a couple of points about how one finds this extra. That a good exercise to go through, in thinking about how we educate people to find their extra, a couple of points

and how we educate our kids to understand that this is the world they're going in to. Is think like an immigrant, think like an artisan and think like a waitress. Those are my three pieces of advice for my kids. Every American worker today should think of themselves as an immigrant. What does it mean to think like an immigrant? It means approaching the world with the view that nothing is owed you, nothing is given, that you have to make it on your own. There is no legacy slot waiting for you at Harvard or the family firm or anywhere else. You've got to go out and earn or create your place in the world and you have to take very close attention to the world in which you are living. That's what immigrants do. As with all immigrants throughout history, all Americans now find themselves, all Australian's now find themselves in new and in many ways, unfamiliar circumstances in this hyper-connected world. In important ways, in the hyper-connected world of the 21st century, we are all immigrants. It's a very good mindset with which to approach the job market.

But everyone also should think of themselves as an artisan. That's the argument of Professor Lawrence Katz at Harvard. He's a labour economist and Larry argues that artisan was the term used before the advent of mass manufacturing, to describe people who made things or provided services with a distinctive touch and flair in which they took personal pride. Which was almost everyone, prior to the industrial revolution. The shoe maker, the doctor, the dress maker, the saddle maker - artisans gave such a personal touch to whatever they did, they often carved their own initials in somewhere. They lived in a world where they were all defined by their extra. Again it's a good mindset to have for whatever job you are doing.

Would you want to put your initials on it, when it's done. Finally, think like a waitress. So in August 2010 I was back in Minneapolis, my home town, having breakfast at Perkin's Pancake House with my best friend Ken Greer. It was seven in the morning and he ordered two scrambled eggs and fruit and I ordered two scrambled eggs and three buttermilk pancakes. The waitress came, put down our plates, and all she said to Ken was - 'I gave you extra fruit'. She got a 50 per cent tip from us. Because she didn't control much, but she controlled the fruit ladle. That was her extra. So, whether you're the waitress or the artisan or the new immigrant, all of us have got to think about what is the extra we can bring to what we do. Because we're basically entering a world in which the old model of countries developed and developing - that's over. That's like, so round world. OK, in the flat world, countries are going to be divided between HIE's and LIE's. High Imagination Enabling countries and Low Imagination Enabling countries. You see, if I got this, the spark of an idea, the something extra, I can actually go to Delta in Taiwan and they'll design it for me, skip over to Hang Ju and Ali Baba will find me a cheap manufacturer,

pop over to Amazon.com and they'll do my delivery and fulfillment, go to Freelancer.com and they'll give me my logo and Craigslist I'll find my accountant. They're all commodities. Except this. (Clicks his fingers) And you want a country where everyone is doing this. (Clicking)

Because the world really is going to be divided between high imagination enabling and low imagination enabling. I want America and you want Australia to be a HIE. Let me stop there and invite up... (Applause) Thank you. If that doesn't scare the bejeesus out of them, I don't know what will, Maxine. I can't help but think you look pretty fit for that high carb breakfast. Tom, you started by saying that the American dream is in play, in peril. Do you think though they may not articulate it that way, that is increasingly how many American's are feeling? I do, I think that it's part of the underlying anxiety coursing through the society. You know a lot of the obsession with China today, that kind of water cooler obsession that I talked about, really comes from the fact - it really isn't about China. It comes from the fact that we see in them what we used to see in ourselves. Come together, get it done, can do. You know, all the challenges that I talked about, Maxine, entitlements, energy and climate, education. These are all challenges today that can only be addressed effectively by collective action.

And if there's one thing that we fear that we've lost today in America,

and Lord knows you can see it on display in Washington DC as we speak, is that ability to act collectively. So that's I think, really concerning people right now. And that fear that the American dream - that my generation, the Baby Boomer generation, will be the generation that presides over the end of the American Dream. I think it's a real fear. And yet you will recall America has been there before, I mean the late '80s, there was the paranoia about the Japanese managerialism,

Japanese manufacturing superiority

and lots of talk about the end of Pax Americana, and look what happened in the '90s. Why is this period... Why is this period different from all other periods? Some people got the joke... It's very simple. Japan threatened one American town and two American industries. The town it threatened was Detroit, and the industries it threatened were consumer electronics and cars. China as a proxy for globalisation, threatens every American town and every American industry.

This is not the 1980s. Now, I will tell you though, Maxine, my book is really not about China as you know, you've seen it. Just in that introduction, because I am not of the view, well Britain in the 19th century, American in the 20th Century, China will inevitably dominate the 21st century. I am not of that view. I don't think America or Australia or anybody else is going to automatically dominate the 21st century. We've got to earn it, we've got to work for it. But I'm not ready to cede the 21st century to anybody. My grandmother in Minnesota, Grandma Friedman, she used to have a saying. She used to sit in her rocking chair in the cold Minnesotan winter and Grandma Friedman used to say to me 'Tommy, never cede the century to a country that censors Google.' Oh, she didn't say that. No, really, I swear to you. She didn't say it. I swear to you, Grandma Friedman used to say that. Never cede a century to a country that censors Google. And the reason why goes back to HIEs and LIEs. See, censoring Google is a proxy for this. It's a proxy for limiting people's imagination. See, censoring Google is a proxy for this. Well, I'll tell you what I heard tonight, and it wasn't from grandma. It was a report about the debt ceiling crisis, the imbroglio. And the chief commentator in this news report was Chinese. I thought that was a sign of the times. Now, tell us about that Tom. What is the end game here, what's going on? You know, I wish I knew. We're in Terra Incognito. We have a faction of the Republican party that is obsessed with the issue of not raising taxes, but cutting spending. And they really propelled the Republican party into power, they were the engine, the Tea Party, that brought them in. And John Bahner, now, the Speaker of the House, the leader of the Republican majority in the House of Representatives, is trying to get them to agree to just the minimal deal. And when I left my hotel, they still hadn't. There's a Taliban quality to this minority, and I'm not fans of these people. My view of the Tea Party is that they're really the tea kettle party, they're about letting off steam. But steam without an engine will not take you anywhere. If the concern is fiscal rectitude, where were they when George Bush was racking up the debt? Yeah, I mean a lot of people have made that point. The amount of debt that Obama is responsible for,

and he's only been there two years, is a fraction and much of it is derivative of the crisis that he inherited. There's something very troubling about this, have made that point. because there is a sense that one fears that what these people are really out to do is destroy Obama's presidency, you know, and I don't think some of them are innocent of that intention. And so, I don't know how this will play out, we haven't seen this before. There's an almost suicidal - some of them know they're never going to get re-elected, that this was a freak that they got in. And some of them don't care if they get re-elected.

And so, forget me reasoning with them, John Bahner seems to be having a hard time getting through to them, and so I find it very troubling. New York Times columnist and author Thomas Friedman speaking with Maxine McKew in Melbourne for The Wheeler Centre. Next up, Patrick White on the big screen. In 1973, the year of it's publication, Patrick White won the Nobel Prize for Literature for his novel The Eye of the Storm. Now it's become first of White's novels to make it to celluloid. At it's launch at the Melbourne International Film Festival a panel of the key collaborators gathered to talk about what it was like being charged with that responsibility and what White might have thought about their adaptation. They included legendary director, Fred Schepisi, his actress daughter, Alexandra, screenwriter, Judy Morris

and Oscar winner, Geoffrey Rush. Rush tells the MIFF audience a Schepisi film is always hard to pin down. And I find that notion terribly interesting

with the diversity of the kinds of films that Fred's directed over the last almost 40 years. And I can't pin point what is Schepisi-esque about that vast oeuvre because The Chant of Jimmy Blacksmith is quite a radically different film to The Devil's Playground and they were shot within two or three years of each other.

That's true. Roxanne comes from the same directorial hand,

Last Orders comes from ... and you think... ..and I think what's wonderful is that Fred is not the sort of auteur

who's going to put all his fingerprints over the story saying 'his is a Fred Schepisi - style film.' He genuinely goes in and says, 'I've got a fascinating story that I'm attracted to, what is the best I can do to make this live and be most engaging for an audience's imagination?' Without me getting in the way of it? My job is to bring it to the house, you know? And that's kind of how he works. But if there are all hallmarks, I think they're things like he casts extraordinarily

but interestingly. The fact that in Last Orders he could line up every great name from 60's British cinema like Tom Courtenay and Michael Caine and David Hemmings and then Ray Winstone and Helen Mirren - he's done a comparable thing with this film of a great array of Australian and very diverse, generational perspective. You know? But it's that ultimate truth, I think is the great hallmark - that he... ..Six Degrees of Separation - He took a highly theatrical play that was very open in direct address to the audience and turned it into a very elegant piece of filmmaking about the Upper East Side of New York. That you would never in a million years have thought this was based on a stage play - it became a completely filmic world that he discovered, I think, as he was making it. You know, I noticed in post-production on this, he found what he wanted to get out of the story. Judy, was it a help, was it a hindrance that the author was not around when you were writing this script? Does it free you up as a writer when Patrick White's not breathing down your neck? Probably a help in a way, that he wasn't because I might have found that a little over-awing. And um... and I could read what I wanted in a way when I read that. I could enjoy all of his humour - I find him incredibly funny to read, all of those things that I got out of the novel. But it's been funny, just in the last few days I've been thinking, oh it would have been so lovely if Patrick White could now see the finished piece. I'm feeling quite a sadness there that he's not seeing the film in real life. I was just going to ask Barbara - Patrick would have loved it though, wouldn't he? Yes.

Yeah, look I can't speak for some one who has been dead for 21 years. and it's a good thing that he has because otherwise he'd be 99. (Chuckles)

We went to a lot of shows together and we mostly came out with the same opinions. I remember we were driving home from the theatre one night and he said, 'Well, the second half of that play was definitely better than the first, wasn't it?' And Manoly said, 'Only because it was closer to the end.' (Laughter) It describes my theatrical experience so well, so often. Could I ask Barbara, I just wanted to know this - did Patrick write the film script based on his own short story for Jim Sharman's The Night, the Prowler? Yes and I think unfortunately he did. Right I think in Patrick's plays,

as radical and as bold, as unique as they are

in the Australian playwriting tradition he had a wonderfully quaint, old-fashioned

almost, you know, the French's acting editions of how they would describe in italics the set? And he would always describe the set in very realistic, Little Theatre kind of ways, do you know what I mean? Hm. When we were doing Shepherd on the Rocks he wanted my character, who was an arch bishop to be ... ..he would describe the scenery should be... ..like a truck and it should come out and it should be little vestry of arches of wood and a heavy mahogany desk, ecetera, ecetera - it was quite quaint. Whereas in the actual production of that, Brian Thomson put me in front of a huge blue neon cross that sort of suggested a corporate world of the church, ecetera ecetera and that Patrick loved that idea, that it could be taken. And I know when they did The Ham Funeral the stage directions were in a very similar, realistic description and Brian again, designed that Neil Armfield directed production and set the play almost as if it was in a concrete enclosure at Taronga Park Zoo. And Patrick's stage directions are something like that it's set in a large, dark, crumbling house. And Brian had that written into the concrete. (Laughter) And so these kind of extraordinary expressionistic developments from what was inside the world of the play I thought it was fantastic that that kind of transition from the heart of his work, other people could take hold of it and push it into an area above and beyond what he may have initially intended. Peter? He seems, in practice, to have been flexible in his appreciation of what people did as if the kind of drama queen inside him - and remember this is the man who was asked how he would've gone as King Lear and he said,

You know, 'If I'd kept my teeth, I would have been fabulous.' (Chuckles) But I think in practice he liked, he liked the dramatic potential of his work to be brought out and he had a rather open and generous sense of how people were realising his potential.

It's obvious that it's very difficult to translate to film, but the great thing is that someone who took your advice - throw away what you don't need,

concentrate on what you do need. But what Judy did - which makes a big difference - was found herself in it. I could sense when the writing was happening

when Judy became part of it, it was coming from inside her things that she felt as well. Things that she connected with, that makes it more personal, more real and much deeper. And I think you did that extremely well. Well, thank you. I think so too. Judy, you mentioned before and very kindly, the extraordinary array of actors that are in this film - it is a great ensemble piece. Can I ask Alexandra and Geoffrey - perhaps you can answer this separately or all together -

the experience of acting in this as an ensemble is your working with an incredible array of characters themselves but really, really mighty actors. Alexandra - was there a great deal of rehearsal done in ensemble beforehand? Ah look, a little bit. Um... We did work together a lot in our preparation and there was a very, very strong sense of ensemble. There were no egos at war - just a lot of humility and a lot of dedication to the work and to one another. And for me that was an enormous privilege and I mean, it's just a joy to work like that on anything, but to sit down at my first reading with Australia's most accomplished and brilliant senior actors - and to be the junior member of that group, be able to work with them and be able to be taken into the fold and treated like any other of the actors in the ensemble is an extraordinary gift and privilege and experience And you know, being able to learn from all these other actors

by actually sharing that experience was amazing. Geoffrey was it very collaborative? Yeah, well Judy, Judy Davis and myself

worked a lot with Fred in three weeks before the shoot, to really try and get an understanding of the dynamic between them and to draw out from the screenplay and the novel, those characters. And I know that Judy is on record of saying to somebody 'I've been waiting since I graduated from NIDA which was in 1977, for a role like this.' Given that she's been extraordinary in things like Brilliant Career up to Judy Garland and everything in between. You know when that kind of passion and obsession and intrigue for a role - It's an actor having the opportunity to collide with a great part in just the right time in their career. And to see around you that yes there is a triangle of the mother and the two siblings

that maybe dominate the amount of text more than others. When you've got that kind of powerhouse of the Patrick White connections again, with great actors like Robyn Nevin and John Gaden, Alex - playing 15 other pretty central roles, you then discover something where you think, it actually is a mosaic - you're not in with your own, selfishly, character trajectory. A lot of the technique of the storytelling is going to come from Lal Wybird having... ..I completely see a fully realised life in Robyn Nevin's performance. Even though she might have three brief scenes - it's the impact of each of those characters. So, no-one's carrying the film. So you have a sense of trust that strength of performance is going to be what the audience experiences. There's no conventional Hollywood sign posted narrative where everyone has to think and feel the same thing, at the same time.

Geoffrey Rush and the panel of collaborators on the movie of Patrick White's 'The Eye of the Storm' from the Melbourne International Film Festival. Finally today, Belgian economist and entrepreneur Gunter Pauli has a plan to develop 100 manufacturing innovations with viable business models that could generate 100 million jobs in ten years.

He calls it, 'the blue economy.' Pauli's innovations cover the full gamut of industrial activity from energy to mining, from medicine to banking,

all of it inspired by science and bio-metrics. And Pauli isn't just talk. Here he tells his Sydney University audience about a project making bio-degradable detergent from discarded citrus peel, which turned around the fortunes of a failing orange plantation in South Africa. The citrus farm was not competitive in the global market. And they invited a company called McKenzie to advise them on how to become competitive again. And of course the result was that it needed to be automated, they needed to lay-off half the people. The only thing that they didn't realise is that the people that worked there owned the farm. Now, it's kind of easy to lay-off people when, you know, they don't own the place, but when they own the place it gets kind of tough and so they weren't really in agreement. So, here I'm gonna go quickly through the solution that we have. Our philosophy is, generate more revenue with what you have. If you do that, you will have forever, the generative capacity. Step number one - anybody here who has been to Kruger Park in South Africa? Beautiful lodges, isn't it? Right next to these farms. So, you have the lodges, and the farm. The farm of course produces fruits. The fruits, we make a juice. The juice is sold to, of course, the local lodges. When you have juice made, then you have peels left over. The peels - only by using steam, you can extract something that's called delaminine, and that is an excellent detergent. Now I can offer the laundry service to those lodges with my delaminine. But I'm using my irrigation water, because my irrigation's water only contaminant

is the detergent made from the peels of my fruits that is not contaminant. And as a result, we relieve all the contamination of these artificial soaps of these lodges, and we actually have the opportunity to re-use the water two times. In a drought stricken region, you know the problem, right?

and we actually have the opportunity to re-use the water two times. Of course, when you have a farm with a lot of trees you need to prune them. The prunings, on top of that,

you have a lot of non-native species that need to be removed.

Of course, in the prunings we grow the mushrooms and we have wood left over that is good firewood and that can be used in the lodges. And then we have wood with which we can construct.

And of course, the waste and mushrooms, that becomes an animal feed and the waste from the peels, after extracting the delaminine, is also a feed. And maybe you didn't realise when you were staying at the lodges

but 60% of the food prepared at the lodges is never eaten. It just stands there. And then it's removed. If you have so much feed you better have some pigs. If you have pigs, well, then, you should be able to have some bio-digesters. And what you're seeing here is, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight - eight revenue streams! Right there before you. We doubled the employment on the farm. Double the employment on the farm and we had exactly the same reality to work with as our friends from McKenzie. But we saw the connections. We saw the usefulness.

As an ecosystem can. Now, Australia's bouncing back from its tremendous drought, and your farms are hopefully bouncing back. Well, I hope they're bouncing like this. I hope they're bouncing like this because this is the way that you generate the jobs for dues

and multiply, not only in food, but also in many other benefits

for the people who today have a hard time surviving from the land. Systems simply generate much more. This one I still have to give to you before we go on to discussions and I will use the other elements in the discussion

because I'm sure we're gonna be able to get back to it.

Oh, I still have seven minutes, oh, OK, thank you. CO2. Have you heard about the debate about CO2? Have you heard about coal and CO2? Yeah, I think it's been somewhat debated in Australia lately. Now, the chimney you see there is a coal fired power station in Puerto Alegre, Brazil. And of course the scrubbers take out the socks and the knots, it's all been installed already. We're taking the CO2, pumping it into the retention basin of the cooling tower. 'Cause you know the water from the cooling tower was still too hot, you can't release it into a river. That retention basin allows us to farm spirulina algae and chlorella. Now, who said CO2 was a problem? The one who doesn't know what to do with CO2 has a problem. In Brazil, thanks to CO2, the coal fired power station - we generate enough spirulina to give a gram of spirulina day for free to 240,000 children. A gram a day to every child. Do you know what it means for every child to get a gram a day of spirulina? We produce it a half a dollar a kilo. Half a dollar. Anyone here taking spirulina pills? We're doing it for a fraction of the cost. But we have so much, there are not enough kids anymore. So now we're forced to do some bio-diesel. So, we're doing the bio-diesel with the left-overs of whatever we've supplied to the kids. And the bio-diesel - when you press it out you have a residue and in that residue you have esters. And those esters are converted to polyesters. And these polyesters are great for cosmetics. Not to make plastic bags. And so, the biggest revenue we generate from the CO2 from the coal fire powered station is actually the polyesters that go into the cosmetics. Have you heard about that? Do they debate this in - No. Why not? Now in Brazil we now have 35 masters in algae farming.

35. How many do you have at this university?

And we have already eight PhDs and another $1 million from the Brazilian government

to have four more PhDs in learning how to polyesterise - polymerise esters, from the membranes of algae. Because everyone realises that's where the cash is. Now that's Brazil. Brazil only has five coal fired power stations. That's all they have. And that's their focus. It's the powerhouse. The last investment from Brazilian investors, locally of Rio Grande do Sul, is $150-million to scale it up. Provide more cheap food for children. Provide more bio-diesel. And of course benefit from the luxury that some people permit themselves to put polyesters in cosmetics on their face. This is, yes, an open market. And we are benefiting from the open market that some people are so keen on having food, fuel and chemicals, but on top of that, On top of that we're getting carbon credits. The infrastructure is 90% financed thanks to the fact that the coal fired power station already has the scrubbers, already has the retention basin. I've been suggesting to Ian that what we should be doing, is actually - or you should be doing,

is when you're exporting your coal you should bring this package with it. It would make a lot of sense. Because your coal will be recognised in the world as the coal that eliminates malnutrition. The coal that makes it possible to have bio-fuels. Thanks to the CO2. This is the positive thinking that we're trying to bring to the equation. And of course this has a major impact on the policy making. Brazilian policy has been very much influenced by the fact that we are using this. Are we all behaving like the pelicans in Peru?

Are all the pelicans looking in the same direction? No. Here is one, here is another one. Yeah, and there is another one there. He puts his head in the water, he doesn't want to see anything. You know, when we're going through a creative process of finding solutions for our challenges in society we can't all look in the same direction. Some people have to look in the other direction. And that is really the mentality we need.

Therefore to tease you or to please you, would you mind responding to the question, 'what is the most available source of energy that you see on this light?' Freely and abundantly available. I'm sorry, it's gravity. It's not the sun.

You didn't see right. The sun only shines on half the earth for half a day. Gravity works all the time. But we have a problem that in our society we have decided on a standard that is called 'one-ten' or 'two-20 AC.' Alternate current.

And when you have to convert power generated from gravity you're in DC power at 6 or 12 volts. And therefore you're not competitive. So, what's your solution?

Change the standard. Simple as that. We have started filing the procedures in Germany to obtain the permit to have buildings solely operate on 24 volt DC. Now, that pillar there, that one right there, how many tonnes do you think it carries? And that pillar there? How many tonnes do you think, of compression strength is - Any guess? More than one, right? Do you agree more than one? More than ten? 50? Each one, 50? For every tonne of compression strength, we can generate 6 volts of electricity in DC. The complete lighting system here, plus the camera we're looking at, plus my computer, plus all your cell phones can be powered simultaneously, solely from the compression strength of this building. What, using Piezoelectric? Piezoelectric, exactly. But with no movement, just the sustained pressure? Sustained pressure but we need to change the roof. Because the roof has to allow us to have minute movements. 'Cause it has to have a certain - Otherwise it's not gonna work. But, that means we have to teach the architects how to make those roofs so that whatever Kepler taught us, you remember Kepler? Yep.

Whatever Kepler taught us is actually working for us. Now, this is the kind of innovation where we're pushing things forward but it has to be translated into something that's permitted. So part of our exercise in the blue economy, is change the rules of the game. If the rule of the game is AC, then renewables have little chance to succeed.

But most of the consumption in a building like this in a university or an office or at home, is all DC. All. Edison will be pleased. Edison will be - he lost against Westinghouse, I know. Tesla came - Well, Tesla sold it to Westinghouse. And never got paid for it, really. So, the history is very beautiful. Now, to conclude my introduction and to then go on to your questions and answers more directly, you remember this proverb? Would you finish it for me? If you give someone a fish he will not be hungry for the day, if you to teach him how to fish... You feed him for life. (Audience mumbles) (Laughter) This is the problem we're stuck with, The wisdom of today is not taking us to the future. The wisdom of today. If we only teach our children what we know, our children can never do better than we do. And that is the reason why we need to have these new ways of being inspired for these new innovations to be applied, those new business models to go through. And we have to remember one thing. David vs Goliath, who won? David won. Why did he win? 'Cause he's good at throwing stones. Yes, but he changed the rules of the game. The big guy thought it was a wrestling match and before he got to the match he'd actually already been stoned right in his face. So what we're in need of is we need entrepreneurs. We need innovators. We need the people who are prepared to do what we can to change the rules of the game. And the rules of the game are based on doing better

of meeting basic needs for all. Belgian economist and entrepreneur Gunter Pauli speaking there at Sydney University on his dream of the blue economy. And that's it for todays Short Cuts from Big Ideas but remember you can find all of the talks you have seen on the show today and many more besides at the Big Ideas website and look out for our lunch-time weekend shows on News 24, Saturday and Sunday at 1pm. I'm Waleed Aly, I'll see you then. Closed Captions by CSI

This Program is Captioned

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