Note: Where available, the PDF/Word icon below is provided to view the complete and fully formatted document
Disclaimer: The Parliamentary Library does not warrant the accuracy of closed captions. These are derived automatically from the broadcaster's signal.
Lateline -

View in ParlViewView other Segments

(generated from captions) and so the question is how do

you try and ensure that you put

the right policies and

agreements in place to make

sure that doesn't happen?

We've got time for just one

more question. It comes from Anna. We've had a lot of

public debate recently around the law and mental illness and

more specifically where whether

a judge with depression can

fairly adjudicate on a

consistent basis. Do you think

judges and magistrates with existing mental health issues

should be allowed on the

bench? Charles Waterstreet? I

have a dog in this race because

I've suffered depression myself

and if we were going to ban

judges and magistrates from

sitting then there would be

no-one left on the bench

because it's a very depressing

job. I go nearly every day to a

place called the Drowning Centre. (LAUGHTER) There's

no good news. There's very

little good news in criminal

law, which I practise in, so it

does attract a certain of depression and a certain

amount of self- observation so

it's little wonder that it has

a high toll but with medication

et cetera, why should anyone

who suffers from depression be in any different situation than

anyone who suffers from

diabetes? It is a matter of

control and I think the last two candidates who had the

disgraceful object of having to go before parliament to plead their jobs is just nothing

short of horrific on any a way of dealing with this of dealing with this sort of

matter and it's just makes us

look like middle ages. Let's

hear from Stephen O 'Doherty.

You were in that parliament.

How did you feel watching those

two magistrates dragged in front of the parliament as if

it was a sort of giant court?

In a sense it is the biggest

court. It makes the lose, as Charles reminded demeaning in these days. They

shouldn't be in that position

why are they in that position? and we need to ask ourselves

As I understand it, there is no

legitimate or easy way that doesn't jeopardise themselves

that a magistrate or a judge

can actually declare that they

have depression and that

they're being treated for it.

So the system itself mitigates against them seeking

assistance. There's a process

of disclosure of other things

but once they disclose there's

almost a self-fulfilling prophecy that they have to

work in that role. So we need

serious law reform in that

area. We understand that so

many people in our community

suffer depression and the worst

thing you can do if you have depression is not seek depression is

assistance and what we've done is create a system where these

people making really important

life decisions are not able to

themselves seek assistance and

then just get on with doing

their job, which they do well. Does that actually create a fundamental problem for

frightened in fact to actually judgment if people are not too

explain to the world and to

going go and seek treatment,

they might be making critical

decisions while they are

mentally ill? Yes, they may wellbuse the system does want

allow them to disclose, treat

it and deal with it, move on.

We've got to do that.

Elizabeth Anne McGregor? Isn't

it part of the wider problem

about the stigma attached to mental illness in society?

That is a big problem we have

to face and if people don't feel able to talk about it and

share it, it is an illness,

it's not a behaviour so they

can't modify it themselves,

that it's not about choice so to say

to behave in a different way if

they have a mental illness I

think is completely wrong and

be need to have more debate

about what we can do about

people in important positions

who are dealing with these

terrible situations. We'll quickly hear from our two politicians. Mathias Cormann?

It is a significant issue and

one that needs to be addressed sensitively. The Law Society in

WA released a significant

report a couple of months ago

with a seefrz recommendations

on how to the processes and support recommendation kz be

does appear to be the case improved. It is concerning that

there sadis proportionate

amount of professionals that do

actually suffer depression and

we do need to make sure Governments, policy-makers, Law Governments,

Societies, that there are

proper support mecenoughs in

place. Penny Wong? I don't

think there's any person in

Australia who hasn't been

touched by mental illness in

some way, either because they

have one themselves or have a

friend or family who has

suffered and I think was really

good. I was really proud of the fact

health package in the Budget.

On this issue, what I'd say is

I don't prufess to be across

the detail of how this came to

passyism think we should try

not to be punitive in how we not to be

approach people with mental

illness and each workplace will

work out how we deal with it,

some better than other, but we need to try and manage this far

better as a society than we

have to date. I'm sorry to

those we haven't been able to

get to but that is all we have

time for. Thank our panel. Steven o-Doherty, Penny Wong,

Charles Waterstreet, Elizabeth Anne McGregor and Mathias Anne McGregor

Cormann. (APPLAUSE) Thank you

very much. Next week on Q&A,

Prime Minister Julia Gillard,

she'll face your questions the

day after announcing her carbon

on climate change brought down pricing policy. Lack of action

Julia Gillard's Prime Kevin Rudd, now it's defining

Ministership. With the details

on the table, will she be seen

as the liar who misled the electorate on the carbon tax or

a skilled negotiator, leading

Australia to the most significant economic and

environmental reform for a generation?

generation? Next Monday night

on Q&A you'll get the chance to

ask questions and

judgment. Join us on Thursday

at 8:30 for the Leaky Boat documentary followed by a

special Q&A debate. Until then,

Closed goodnight.

the carbon tax details next Tonight - green Monday and

Sunday. I'm giving Australians

a guarantee that we are working

to deliver on what we said we

would deliver and that is an emissions trading scheme to

begin on 1 July 2012. This is a

time when we see the tail

wagging the dog and the Greens

And Australia will pay a very

heavy price for it. This Program Is Captioned

Live.

Good evening. Welcome to

'Lateline'. I'm Ali Moore. It's been

been months in the making, but

now there's just days to go

until the government unveils the details of its carbon tax.

Just how much of the scheme is

bill being negotiated is

unclear but the Prime Minister

says enough progress has been

made to name a day for made to name a day for the much awaited announcement. Without

the details, the opposition's

been happy to fill the void. We've had Captain

Negative, Tony Abbott, round

and round the place for the

last three months on dozens of

occasions saying the sky will

fall in, petrol will go up

through the roof. It's time for

Mr Abbott to be held to account

for once on something he has

said. This is part of an

ongoing scare campaign without

foundation. Our guest is Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd,

who also talks about Thailand's

new Prime Minister, trade with Indonesia and relations with

Malaysia. That interview shortly. First our other

headlines. Wounded Tiger. The

uncertainty continues for the

discount airline and its thousands

thousands of passengers. Thailand's first Minister confronts the huge task of reuniting her country. And New South

And New South Wales police to

get the power to remove facial coverings for identification.

The government will officially

unveil its carbon tax on Sunday. Cabinet made the

decision at a meeting tonight

and will meet again at the end

of the week to consider the

final recommendations of the

multiparty committee on climate

change which is advising the

government. But the government

says there's enough consensus

to push ahead with an

announcement ending months of speculation will work. For more here's political correspondent Tom

Iggulden in Canberra. An end of

financial year tax return. financial year tax return. It's

just such a great relief for us

and no doubt the Australian

community. The Prime Minister

is running away from the

Parliament. She's running away

from the scrutiny of the

Parliament and the scrutiny of

the people. Parliament's just

been sitting for six weeks, and

the carbon tax details will be dumped Parliament has finished its work. The government's been

preparing the ground for

Sunday's unsheathing its weapon against climate change,

starting with the starting with the science. That

data shows that carbon dioxide

is now at its highest level in

more than a million years.

It's also been drip-feeding

policy announcements like how

consumeers and small business

operators won't pay the carbon

tax on fuel. Do you really think that petrol would be

excluded had I not been

campaigning hard to protect the

motorists of Australia? From a

petrol pump in petrol pump in Melbourne to a fruit and veg shop in Queanbeyan, the Opposition

Leader has planted his carbon

tax message across the country.

It it will drive up the price

of your electricity $300 a

year, drive up the price of

your petrol, 6.5 c a litre.

It's time for him to go back to people at the fresh food market

that he was wrong when he said

to them petrol would go up.

But the government's been cagey about how far

about how far its petrol exemption will go. Will the

carbon tax apply to passenger

buses? I can tell you that it

will not apply to light

commercial vehicles. Will small

business operators of concrete

trucks Bobcats and backhoes be

exempt from the carbon tax on their

their fuel already outlined and so has the assistant Treasurer outlined

those that would be exempt. I'm

afraid the members who are so

serious about running their

scare campaign have a little

while to wait yet to get all

the detail. All will be

revealed on Sunday but the heavy transport industry is

already scared and its union is rumbling into action. The trucking

trucking industry is like a sweatshop on wheels. This

additional pressure will mean

more fatalities, more and a greater hazard for every

road user in this road user in this country.

With the carbon tax countdown

officially on, even the press gallery is getting

jittery. Relax, relax. What are

you guys on today? And the

final political arguments are

being thought through like the opposition's attack on

economists who disagree with

their direct action

alternatives. Is there anything wrong with the quality of

Australia's economists? Oh look

... I've got ... I've got lots of opinions on economists. I think I will save them for my selves. It's an inexact

science? It's not an exact science. Four new Greens senators clocked on for the first time today. We've got 1.5 million Australians now who

vote green, so I will be

working on their behalf. But I

am so excited to be a am so excited to be a strong voice for Queensland. It's the

first time we've first time we've had a Greens

senator. They lost their first

vote after gaining the balance of power in the Senate to

install one of their own as Senate is therefore elected President of the Senate. Hear, hear. But

at their first party-room

meeting, Bob Brown was all

smiles. So enjoy it all. It's

just great to have you with us. us. The Greens may well enjoy the period ahead as they seek

to challenge the dominance of

the major parties. But there's

also a lesson from history, also a lesson from history, the

Democrats once wielded a similar power over John

Howard's government, but the

party room soon divided over

how best to use it and they slid into oblivion. and Australian safety

regulators were tonight

described as just one step in a

long process to decide the

future of the airline. Tiger's entire domestic fleet is

currently grounded, and aif

quais experts say if the --

aviation experts say if the airline doesn't survive,

domestic airfares will rise.

Today it was all quiet at Tiger

Airways' check-ins in across

the country as up to 35,000

passengers pondered the airline's and one summed it up. We don't

know what we have to do. And

after two days, I have some

interviews in Perth and I don't

know what I should do now. So ... it's terrible. This

afternoon, Tiger Airways

management met with CASA the Civil Aviation Safety

Authority. The airline has to

convince the regulator it has a

plan to address concerns about

pilot training and aircraft

maintenance. And the Pilots Association says there may be

no quick fix. They seem systemic problems. And you

can't, as you can't train

pilots in a week, you can't

train engineers in a week. The

skills required for aviation

take a long time to come to

fruition. The grounding of

Tiger Airways follows two recent incidents above Melbourne Airports, where

aircraft approaching the runways

runways flew too close to the ground. Any what we term the lowest

what we term the lowest safe

altitude is a real concern for the travelling the travelling public. Those

minimums are set there for a reason. Tiger Airways began

operations in the Australian domestic market in 2007.

Looking to undercut Virgin Blue

and Qantas and now its part

owner Singapore Airlines wants

to do the same internationally. Singapore Airlines the major shareholder in Tiger Holdings, intends to

launch its own wide body 100%

owned long-haul version of Jetstar international if like in Australia next year and

it would want as much space

between this humiliation that's

gone on with Tiger Airways and

the launching of the yet

unnamed Singapore venture. So I

don't think we have complete

clarity on future of Tiger but

we can say

the brand has actually been

totally trashed. Tiger has

until Saturday to convince the

safety regulate or it can deal with the safety concerns but CASA is not satisfied, the

grounding could be extended

into next week. Today, Tiger

said the airline intends to

resume services as quickly as

possible. And restore the confidence of safety authorities and the public. If

Tiger Airways does not return, are expected to rise. Despite

the uncertainty surrounding its

future, the airline is still

selling tickets on-line. But tonight, the Australian

competition and consumer commission said Tiger Airways

should be cautious about

selling tickets as there's no

certainty the airline will

resume flights this weekend. The New South Wales Government has acted on police demands

over head coverings, approving

new powers for their removal

for police

State Cabinet agreed to the

change today in the wake of a Sydney court case which

collapsed over identity and

of a woman wearing a burqa.

She'd been sentenced to since

months jail. An appeal judge

agreed her identify couldn't be

proven because police never saw her face. The Islamic Council

of NSW has made the point it's

not compulsory in relation to

their religion. It's also an issue with other and other cultures but whether it's a driver's licence or passing through customs,

identity checks are required in

this day and age and we're determined to ensure police have have the powers to undertake

them when required. Under the

new laws, police will direct

people to remove face coverings

if they have reasonable grounds

for suspecting the criminal

activity or breaches of

security may have occurred.

Thailand has elected the red

shirt backed opposition in a

landmark election that will

install the country's first female Prime Minister. Yingluck

Shinawatra is also the sister of former Prime Minister

Thaksin ousted in a military

coup five years ago. She says

her key task is to try to unite

Thailand amid continuing political tension and to boost

incomes for the poor in regard

to an amnesty to bring her

exiled brother told Zoe Daniel an existing reconciliation commission will consider an amnesty proposal

for all those convicted of crimes related to the recent political unrest. Just over a

year ago, the red shirts in the military

military were fighting running

battles on the streets of

Bangkok. Now their preferred party is

party is taking power under the

leadership of Yingluck

Shinawatra the sister of their

icon. Former Prime Minister

Thaksin was ousted in a

military coup five years ago, convicted of interest charge and lives in

exile. But he remains the figurehead of the red shirt

movement. For now, the military's indicating it will allow a peaceful transition.

About that may change if

Yingluck and her party attempt

to bring him back. Welcome. You

did it. How do you feel? I feel

proud of this job and I think

we have a lot more work for

Thai people and the country.

How significant a moment is that think? I think the Thailand

need to solve being on the

problem in the past five years,

especially on the economic problems problems and plus how we can

move Thailand ahead and move forward

forward on the conflict on reconciliation. Do you think

you won the election because of you or because of your brother? Election won because

of myself and also Pheu Thai Party policy. I think policy is the key factor.

People believe and trust that

we can implement. I think people accept our policies. But

I'm still waiting for the final

official announcement from the committee. Yet within a few weeks, you will be Prime

Minister. What will be the

first thing that we no? The

first thing we have to do is

solve the economic problems especially on high living expense. We need to fix that as

fast as we can. You talk fast as we can. You talk about increasing income for people on

low incomes. What change will

that bring? This is the first

thing we had to do, because as

long as we release the cost

they will have to more --

reduce the cost they will have

more money to spend. Plus we

have to accelerate on the

government spending. Spending

will generate a higher income

and household income. We need to to do two things at the same time. You continue to battle

the perception that you are

Thaksin's puppet. How are you going to shake that? Please

give me the chance for me to

proven all the thing and how we

implement, but anyway, to be

the strong - we add for - right

now today, we now invite you

for coalition to party. So I think our government will be formed. Must have a lot of people to join.

And myself, we're using on the

experience I have to run the

government. I will try my best

and do my best for the

country. The military is

saying they won't allow you to form government. --

they will allow you to form

government. Do you trust

them? Yes, we have to trust them. The people accept this

situation, and I have thanks

for all people who are involved

in all the government, that make election is make election is come by peaceful and very completely

right now. Do you have a deal

with them to keep them happy

so they will allow to you

govern? No, I think we just do

whatever the process and

whatever the thing on our own duty. They have to do their own

responsibility. Anyway we can

discuss after we form the

government. And if government. And if you try to bring Thaksin back the military

may resist that? Is that still

one of your policies? We don't

have the policy just what we're doing for only one person.

Especially our family. So we

have to do for the whole

country and make sure that

everyone would get the same

treatment. What does that

mean? Are you still going to look a an amnesty or not? We

will start like I have

mentioned to you last time that

we will start from 19 September

and we will support the

committee to consider with the

committee. So I wanted to win

so we'll make sure that this

committee will keep the

families and things fair for

everyone. My brother will be one of the people who has to

get the same, the same basis.

The new Thai Prime Minister talking there to South East Asia correspondent Zoe Daniel.

Now to tonight's guest, Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd. Mr Rudd

joined us a short time ago to

discuss Sunday's carbon tax

announcement, the Malaysia

asylum seeker swap deal, the

Indonesian live cattle ban, the

new Prime Minister of Thailand, the Australia Network contracts and the modern art of diplomacy. Welcome to 'Lateline'. Thanks for having

me on the program. We'll get to affecting your portfolio in a moment, but first, the Prime

Minister has announced details

of the carbon tax will be

released on Sunday. Does that

mean all the details of the tax have now been finalised, it's

all locked in? Well, let's wait

until Sunday. This is a matter

for the Prime Minister, the Minister for Climate Change,

and I'm sure all will be made

clear on Sunday. But the

important thing for Australia

is to have clarity on the

question of a carbon price,

that is what the Labor has stood for since prior to

the 2007 election. That's what

we stand for today. 'Cause it's

essential that we bring down

greenhouse gas emissions and we do something concrete about

global warming. Are you you a

aware whether all the issues

have been revolved? On the

processes concerning the climate change deliberation,

put those points to the Climate Change Minister

Change Minister and the Prime

Minister. All I can say is Sunday is announcement day and

I expect that you will see the

totality of the

am not engaged in the detail of

the internal deliberation

process. That's for my ministerial colleagues. Do you

also believe what will be made

public will be as good as a

CPRS in your view that was put

to your Parliament when you

were Prime Minister? The key

question is to put a price on

carbon. It puts little dividend

to put one down

package and put one down are

the other and go tick cross,

tick cross. The comment Nators

will do that. The key thing is

a price on carbon and to make

sure that sure that there are appropriate arrangements for families and

including the assurances given

by the Prime Minister and the

Climate Change Minister today

on the exemption of petrol from

the scheme which of course is

what we did in the carbon

pollution reduction scheme as well. Of course, the key

difference is that under your

scheme, petrol was only

exempted for three years. Under Julia Gillard's scheme, it will be exempted be exempted "for the future" S that a mistake, never say

never? Well, the key thing here

is to make sure that we get this carbon price through this Parliament. Each Parliament is

of a different composition. In the period I was Prime

Minister, we spent the better

part of a year, a year and a

half in consultation with the Australian community. We put it to the Australian Parliament

twice. It was voted down by the

Liberals and the Greens. This

Parliament is Parliament is of a different

composition. Let us see how

they'll react on this

they'll react on this occasion. It's time for Tony Abbott to

get real, but my core concern

is this, and always has

it's time to put a price on

carbon. If the Greens on this occasion choose to be flexible,

well, that's by the by. It's a

question of getting the necessary parliamentary support

for us to act on climate change nationally

nationally and internationally. To together with the rest of

the world the world we can make a material difference and thereby

preserve a future for our kids

and grandkids. That's our responsibility. That would seem a recognition that a different Parliament in a Parliament in a different time,

could it in fact not exempt

petrol, the rules could

change? What I said back to

the CPRS, was after the three

years of the exemption of

petrol, that we would review it

in terms. Its overall impact

within the scheme and its

overall impact on families.

That was the That was the form of words we

used on that occasion. Each

Parliament is different. But

the government's policy is

absolutely clear. As articulated by the Prime

Minister today, and that is this

this decision in relation to

petrol is for now and for

future. And I think the key

thing here is we've had Captain Neg tip of, Tony Abbott, round

and round the place for the

last three months on dozens of

occasions saying the sky

the roof. Just time for the roof. Just time for Mr

Abbott to be held to account

for once on something he said.

This is part of just an ongoing scare campaign without

foundation. Let's look at international issues. What will

the change of government in Bangkok mean for Australia's

relationship in Thailand? The

good thing is that we've had

peacefully conducted elections.

We appear to be in the middle of a peaceful transition

process and the government led by Prime

by Prime Minister Abhisit and the Democratic Party to the the Democratic Party to the new government under the party Pheu

Thai, led by Ms Shinawatra. Now, under those circumstances

we expect to deal with the new

government in the same way in

which we dealt with its

predecessor. It's an important

bilateral relationship for Australia, huge trade interests

we have in Thailand, we have a

free trade agreement there,

huge security interest. We do a lot in the world together. I'm

confident our relationship with

Thailand will Thailand will continue to prosper under government. We congratulate

them, but we also congratulate

Prime Minister Abhisit, having

taken the bold decision to

bring on an early election to resolve what many had come to

conclude was an absolute

political impasse within the

country. You describe as a

complication the fate of the Prime Minister-elect's brother

Thaksin Shinawatra who of

course was convicted of

corruption and is in exile.

What do you see as the

risks? Well, obviously the Prime Minister's Thaksin Shinawatra, has been

found guilty of corruption

charges within Thailand itself,

and obviously that is a matter of of rolling controversy within

Thai politics. If therefore in

the future it was arranged by

one means or another to bring Thaksin Shinawatra back into

the country, then I think it's

possible that we will see instability triggered. But

that's in the realm of the hypothetical. It's just acknowledging a reality for what it intend to get on building a

strong relationship with this

government, as we had with Prime

Prime Minister Abhisit's

government, because it's

important for the region, where

Australia has so many interests

at at stake. Indonesia,

another country where we have a

lot of interests at stake and the key issue at the moment

being the banning of the live

cattle trade. You're set to

visit there at the end of the

week. It will be your first

visit since that ban was put in

place. Why has it taken so long? Oh good grief!

Minister twice in the last

several weeks at various

conferences around the world.

You don't just go to each other's capitals. Foreign

Ministers are on the move constantly. I had a long set of

conversations with Foreign

Minister Natalagawa at a

conference only four or five

days ago, prior to that in

Hungary. We're on the phone to

one another all the time.

That's the way in which Foreign

Ministers do business. The idea

it's always flags flying landing in capitals, frankly, doesn't reflect the ongoing

reality. So I've been into this

up to my armpits, together with the Agriculture Minister the Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig and his counterpart Ludwig and his counterpart in Indonesia, and the Trade

Minister of course Craig

Emerson and his counterpart in

Indonesia. That's not always on

the ground but in this instance

you are the heaviest hitter Australia has in terms of foreign relations. You think

our cattle producers would've

liked to have seen you on ground and not holding conversations around the sidelines of other

conferences? I just think this

is a completely false debate.

If you sit down with the

Foreign Minister of

country and you have a full and formal bilateral with him, it's

not just over a cup of tea in

the corner, it's you in a room

working through the issues, in

great systematic detail , that's

that's the business of diplomacy. So why go now? The

physical location of it is a

different matter. Why go now? Because in about two time we are convening a meeting

of all east Asian Foreign

Ministers on the future what

have will be an important

summit for all of East Asia

later in the year. It's the

sort of thing I would

do because of a vast agenda in

preparation for a meeting with our colleagues from around the

region. At the same time, of

course, I will be reviewing

progress on the live cattle

export question. For me this is also a deep challenge of

foreign policy as it is of

trade policy and for two

reasons. No-one watching your

program wants to see animal welfare which were seen on 'Four

Corners' recently. At the same time,

time, we are very mindful of

the fact that it this is a half

billion dollar industry, on

which which so many families right

across northern Australia, my

own home State of Queensland, are directly affected, and the communities which are supported

by the industry. We've

therefore got to get this

right. That's why we've got

three senior ministers at work

on this and we are working

through it systematically in a

set of very difficult

challenges. Of course another relations with other countries,

the asylum seeker processing

deal with Malaysia, you've not

visited Malaysia since that

deal was initiated. How

involved are you in those

negotiations? I pick up a theme

in your questions here. The

bottom line is this: the entire

negotiation with other regional

countries on assessment centres

hangs off one core fact and

that is that we, back in March, myself and the Indonesian

Foreign Minister, presided over

a conference in Bali which for the first time

and the first region in the

world negotiated a regional

framework agreement for the

processing of asylum seekers

within our region.

that again up to my armpits for

the simple reason that it was

chaired by myself and the

Indonesian Foreign Minister

with dozens of others from

across Asia. That's the

cornerstone of what now occurs

with bilateral countries -

negotiations with other

countries. The conference you

flicked aside, I had a very

good bilateral with the Malaysian Foreign Minister. There

web site of that. It is a fair

question to ask, why Malaysia

hand Indonesia haven't been on

your travel itinerary. Since that preliminary deal with Malaysia was announced you have

been to Burma, Kazakhstan,

Equatorial Guinea, China,

Hungary, Thailand, Finland,

Sweden, the Norway the US and UK. and Malaysia in there for some on-the-ground discussions? I

think what you have done there

is a bit unfair. I think you

know that it's unfair.

reason is I've already been to

Indonesia twice in the nine

months that I've been Foreign

Minister. And in one of those

occasions was to deal with the

very issues that we are just

speaking about, in terms of

asylum seekers across the

region. As for the Malaysians,

I've also been engaging with

them in different forums,

understanding the fact a arrange mengts with our Malaysian and Indonesian

counterparts on the question of asylum seekers lies with my colleague the Immigration

Minister Chris Bowen. Minister Chris Bowen. As for

the rest of what you just

referred to, let me tell you,

Foreign Ministers around the

world are in the habit of

travelling for the stimpl reason we've collectively

concluded that most foreigners

live abroad. Therefore you've

actually got to travel to meet

them. The last thing I would

say to you is when it comes to

travel to Australia, it's a

long way from a lot of these to engage with them on

everything we've got going in

the global agenda, current state of the global economy,

current state of current state of security in South East Asia, current state

of our negotiations across the

world you've got to be out

there and in it, that's what

Foreign Ministers do, for which

I make zero apology. Let's

turn to an issue slightly

closer to home and that's the

decision on the new contract for Australia's overseas

television service which has

been delayed with changes made

to the tender after in particular piste. Can you just confirm

whether reports that the

independent committee had made a recommendation that Sky

should win that contract

the ABC? Both the deliberations

by what I think by what I think you're

referring to as the tender

evaluation board and its

recommendation to the secretary

of the Department of Foreign

Affairs and Trade are matters

on which (a) I have never been

briefed and (b) nor was the

Cabinet. Therefore, the decisions you've just to in terms of the overall decision making processes of

the government were not mindful

of that, they were mindful of

the fact that our circumstances over the last six months have

changed. One of those circumstances is this: back at the end of the last year when

you saw the eruption of the

Arab spring and what unfolded

in January, February and March

on our television screens in

Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan and

Bahrain and as well as now of

course in the civil war in Libya, we found ourselves

in this part of the region,

part of the world I should say

seriously challenged. We've got

thousands of Australians living

in that part of the world. Getting messages out to them

through the general media is

now very important. We have massive economic interests

there. There are tens of

thousands of Arab students in Australia. Therefore, this

placed to whole new focus and

set of interests on the table which were not there as

graphically as before, so it's

entirely appropriate for the

kak net to decide at should be considered afresh and

by Cabinet as a whole looking

at the totality of our international interests, not just our foreign policy

interests. The one issue that

I find a something that yes it's going

to be a Cabinet decision but legally an individual minister

has to be the final approver

and according to the Minister

for Communications Senator

Conroy, he is now the final

approval and yet this entire

process as he explains is being administered by your

department. Why aren't you the final approver? I draw your

attention to what Senator

Conroy said in the sphat. It's a

a remark with which I

completely concur. The decision

maker in effect is the Cabinet itself. The approver itself. The approver is

consistent with other contractual arrangements

entered into by a whole range

of areas, is then assigned to

legal precedents to an

individual minister to do the

approving. I understand carriage of the process? Well, the Department of Foreign

Affairs and trade has carriage

of the process because we have

been anchoring the tender

evaluation process for some

considerable period. Why change the underpinning bureaucracy of

it? That's a waste of time and

effort. The key thing is the

decision making process itself,

by the Cabinet, take into

account these new criteria,

with the respective tenderers

being offered new information to which they must now respond. It's an

important contract for

Australia. It's $223 million

worth of public funds. It's to

get our image out to the rest

of the region and the beyond, including places like

the Middle East and therefore

we have to get the decision

right. Therefore the input of

all Cabinet ministers is entirely appropriate. Given how

you describe this contract as

very important, getting

Australia's image out, would it

be appropriate to give it to an organisation that will

potentially be largely foreign controlled, if I to you in the sense that Sky

News is 33% owned by BSkyB,

where News Corporation has

announced plans to take 100% of that organisation, and 33%

owned by the Nine Network which

belongs to a private equity

group. Well, you wouldn't be

talking up the book of the talking up the book of the ABC

there? I would naturally be

accused of that but I'm not. I

think it's a fair question. Let

me put it to you in exactly

these terms: I won't publicly

canvass the virtues or vices, the strengths any of those who are tendering

for this particular contract,

and the reason being is that

those deliberations go through

the process which you and I

have just been discussing. For

me to go out there and say one's got these strengths, the

other's got the following weaknesses would be entirely

wrong. I haven't in the past, I

don't intend to start

now. Under whoever wins the

contract, how much control will the government have and the

department have, your department have over

programming? We'll have a significant input into One of the reasons this

contract was put out to tender

was to ensure we'd have a maximisation in Australian

content in a program or

television network which

paid for by the Australian

taxpayer. It's no good running programs around the rest of the

world which carry wonderfully interesting BBC documentaries.

If you don't like a story, if

you're not happy with a particular rundown, uncomfortable with a particular piece of current piece of current affairs, you

can say it can't be run? We're

not running tacit,stestis style censorship arrangements. We

want the maximise ation of

Australian content with the reality of modern

Australia, noft just a bunch of

holes in the ground with lots

of iron ore being shipped out

on a truck or furry marsupials.

It's the new face of

multicultural Australia. We

have a brilliant financial

services sector a great science

sect yosh, we're great at universal, primary and are world leading. These are the the images of the new Australia

we want to be projected in

Australia's name to the region

and the worlds 'cause we're

proud of who we are

Australian and we're not

Americans, we're not Brits, not

Europeans, we're Australians

therefore we have to get our

message right so will DFAT have

an input into that? You

betcha! So many issues, so

little time. Thanks for joining 'Lateline' tonight. Thanks for having me on the program.

Syrian troops have reportedly stormed houses in

the city of Hama as anti-government

continue. Tanks had deployed to

the city on Sunday, but then

pulled back without entering.

In recent days, troops have

killed more than 20 people in a

resurgence of mass protests and

several cities across the

country. Despite the promise of reform from President Bashar

al-Assad, the regime shows al-Assad, the regime shows no sign of relaxing sign of relaxing its military campaign. Thoog these are big

es protests since the popular uprising against uprising against the Syrian

regime began nearly four months

ago. Amateur vision posted

on-line shows tens of thousands

of people turned out in the

central city of Hama, renewing

their long-standing demands for the President Bashar al-Assad

to step down from power. The demonstrations prompted swift

retaliation. In all too

familiar scenes, thousands of

trooped backed by tanks have been sent to Hama to crush any

further unrest. Activists

communications were cut to the whole city, reportedly to facilitate the crackdown. Then state television announced

President Assad had personally

intervened to sack Hama's

provincial governor. The latest

unrest, though, wasn't confined

to Hama. In Latakia and Aleppo,

protesters were also back on

the streets determined to bring

an end to the regime. We cannot stand here doing nothing.

Seeing everything happening

around us. We are afraid, but

we cannot stop. A Sky television crew managed to get

into Aleppo in defiance of a

government ban on foreign media

entering the country, and shot what what it says was the first

verifiable footage of violence

in Syria since the unrest began. Until now, President

Assad has relied on the support

of Syria's small but growing

middle class. A mixture of

Sunni Muslims and minority

Allowites that live mostly in Aleppo and Damascus. Most of

the people here like him so

much, we trust him, but the

problem is now, most of the

people don't trust the regime.

But that trust could the President's pledge to follow through on promised

reforms, including greater

freedoms and the release of

hundreds of political prisoners from jail. In Damascus this

week, a group of prominent

intellectuals and opinion

leaders have met to discuss

ways to resolve the crisis and

momp the country forward. They

claim to represent Syria's silent majority and even

invited some opposition leaders

to put forward their to put forward their demands but many believe it's already too late for such reforms and

Bashar al-Assad has no option left but to leave. The Libyan government has

held meetings in foreign capitals with representatives

of the rebel opposition to try to negotiate a peace deal. to negotiate a peace deal. In an emailed statement a Libyan

government spokesman said that

meetings had taken place in

Italy, Egypt hand Norway and were witnessed by representatives of those

countries' governments. The

statement also said talks were

ongoing. Now time for the

That's all from us. If you

want to look back at tonight's interview with Kevin Rudd or review any of 'Lateline''s

stories or transcriptses you

can visit our web site. Also

follow us on Twitter and

Facebook. I will see you again

tomorrow. Goodnight.

Closed Captions by CSI This Program Is Captioned

Live.

Good evening. Welcome to

Lateline Business. I'm Phillip

Lasker. Tonight - Tiger Airways

boss comes in under the radar for crisis talks over his grounded

pilots in a week. You can't

train engineers in a week. The

skills required for aviation

take a long time. Bribery allegations against Securency raise uncomfortable issues for Reserve Bank governance. The

equity interests in this, to

have appointed people to the

boards without adequate due diligence must be very worrying for the people at Bank. And Gerry Harvey vents his spleen after environmental

groups target his chain in the battle against felling native

forests. I've been targeted,

totally unfairly and for one

reason only that they get free

media. To the markets. A

strong start to the week, but

the All Ords lost that opening fizz through the day.

Tiger Airways is finding for survival after its grounding

over safety concerns. over safety concerns. Some aviation analysts believe the

budget carrier will be forced

out of business and doubt it

will be grounded for only a

week. The airline's brand

appears badly damaged and it's been haemorrhaging millions of

dollars in losses over the past

few years. It's a turbulent time for Tiger Airways. But analysts believe the low-cost

carrier will ride through the

storm. Tiger Airways and its

backers have got significantly

deep pockets and a strong

enough will to get this

resolved as quickly as possible and get back flying. The Civil Aviation Safety Authority

grounded the budget airline for

a week until Saturday because

of safety concerns. And Tiger

boss Tony Davis flew in from Singapore for crisis talks with the Melbourne. The location was

kept under wraps and in a

statement issued this afternoon, Tiger says management will continue to work on a constructive basis with CASA to resolve their

safety concerns. The safety

authority is yet to decide if

it will go to the Federal Court

to seek an extension of the

grounding. It depends whether

or not they are actually able

to rectify the issues that CASA

has brought to their attention. Meanwhile, the

terminals are empty, but the

low-cost carrier is still

selling on-line tickets for

flights next week. Although Barry Jackson Association believes it could

take a while for Tiger to get back in the air. They seem

systemic problems, and as you can't train pilot it is a week,

you can't train engineers in a

week, the skills required for

aviation take a long time to

come to fruition. He believes