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Tonight - the unwinnable bill the Gillard Government is facing its amendments to the Migration Act.

This will be a Government that has put itself in the position of failing to do what is the first
duty of any government - namely, to protect the borders of our country.

Here. Here.

Frankly, it is a Government and a Prime Minister who should resign.

Any suggestion that Labor would re interstate Kevin Rudd has ridiculed. What a joke. What a joke.
It is a joke. It's a joke. It is a joke.

This Program is Captioned Live

Good evening, welcome to Lateline. I'm Tony Jones. The fevered pos engineering in New York over the
Palestinian bid for a UN vote on statehood, it's become clearer that the principle President.
principle President. Mahmoud Abbas or Abu Mazan as some still call him, may well have used this
controversial move to break the two-and-a-half year deadlock that paralysed the peace process.

In a way Abu Mazan was very pragmatic. He's voided a confrontation with the United States. I don't
think there's going to be a vote in either the Security Council or the UN General Assembly It will
just hover in the Security Council, the request for membership, it as a kind of Sword of Damocles.

Former ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk with his assessment of the behind the scenes machinations
of the UN bid. First our other headlines. The cover didn't game the global markets tumble after
comments from the US Fed reserve chief the significant risks facing the US economy.

Parliamentary recess puts offshore processing in limbo

Parliamentary recess puts offshore processing in limbo

Broadcast: 22/09/2011

Reporter: Tom Iggulden

The debate on processing asylum seekers in Malaysia has been put on hold as Parliament breaks for
two weeks.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The on-again, off-again debate on Labor's offshore processing bill is back
in limbo tonight after the Government delayed a vote on it for at least two weeks to when
Parliament next sits.

But the Opposition's already moved on from the issue, attempting to fuel rumours that Kevin Rudd is
working the phones to his colleagues to pave the way for a comeback.

Political correspondent Tom Iggulden reports.

TOM IGGULDEN, REPORTER: Kevin Rudd's in America to talk about nuclear disarmament, but wound up
dismantling a report that the Prime Minister's unhappy with the amount of travel he's doing. The
Foreign Minister says overseas trips come with the job.

KEVIN RUDD, FOREIGN MINISTER: And that's because we have discovered a long time ago that most
foreigners live abroad.

TOM IGGULDEN: The report was based on a leaked email from the Prime Minister's office asking Mr
Rudd to cut down on his spending. He says the email was sent to all ministers as a ...

KEVIN RUDD: ... general and correct reminder to all ministers of the Government to in fact be very
mindful of minimising costs to the taxpayer, which we do.

JULIA GILLARD, PRIME MINISTER: The Foreign Minister and all ministers who travel are frequently
told that they need to do all things necessary to be prudent with taxpayers' dollars and keep costs

TOM IGGULDEN: But the Opposition wasn't done there, following another report that during his trip,
Mr Rudd's been calling Labor backbenchers to rally support for a comeback.

WYATT ROY, LIBERAL MP: Will the Prime Minister commit to examining the Prime Minister's - the
Foreign Minister's phone records for his current trip to ensure that he has not been making
excessive phone calls back to Australia?

TOM IGGULDEN: Deputy Nationals leader Nigel Scullion told a newspaper he overheard a phone call
between Mr Rudd and Labor senator Trish Crossin.

TONY ABBOTT, OPPOSITION LEADER: I understand that one Labor backbencher took a call from Kevin Rudd
in the presence of a Coalition member of Parliament and then told the Coalition member of
Parliament exactly what had happened.

TOM IGGULDEN: Senator Crossin says the call was weeks ago and about a local football team and not
Julia Gillard's leadership.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE HOUSE: It is absolutely absurd, absolutely absurd that people
report statements from Liberal Party sources about internal ALP matters.

TOM IGGULDEN: But another Labor MP wouldn't deny that Mr Rudd's called him.

SHAYNE NEUMANN, LABOR MP: Kevin Rudd speaks to me from time to time and the Prime Minister speaks
to me from time to time, but I'm very happy to support them in their respective jobs.

JOURNALIST: Has he called you to raise the leadership?

SHAYNE NEUMANN: I think it was Kevin's birthday yesterday. I think you should give him a call.

JOURNALIST: You're not answering the question.

SHAYNE NEUMANN: I think the Prime Minister's doing an excellent job and I think the Foreign
Minister's doing an excellent job.

TOM IGGULDEN: The Opposition Leader says Kevin Rudd's the reason why debate on the Malaysia
solution legislation was suddenly brought forward.

TONY ABBOTT, OPPOSITION LEADER: She is plainly worried about her numbers. She knows that Kevin Rudd
is calling around, and that's why I think we've got the bill brought on today.

SARAH HANSON-YOUNG, GREENS SENATOR: I found out that it would be brought forward last night,
probably the same time you guys found out.

TOM IGGULDEN: The debate was colourful, with the Opposition saying asylum seekers would be caned in
Malaysia if the plan went ahead.

MICHAELIA CASH, LIBERAL SENATOR: The cane shreds the victim's naked skin, turns the fatty tissue
into pulp. Blood and flesh splash off the victim's body, often accompanied by urine and faeces

TOM IGGULDEN: The Government accuses the Opposition of abandoning its policy of offshore

CRAIG EMERSON, TRADE MINISTER: The only foreigners that the Opposition Leader likes are the people
smugglers, the people smugglers that he's saying, "Start your engines. Come on down."

TONY ABBOTT: A government which cannot protect borders of our country is a government that is
incapable of doing its job. Frankly, it is a government and a prime minister who should resign.

TOM IGGULDEN: Of course the Opposition's amendments also have no chance of passing. The Greens
meanwhile have moved an amendment of their own, calling for a complete end to offshore processing.
It's got even less support than the Government and the Opposition proposals, yet that's exactly
where the policy's set to end up when the shouting's done.

Tom Iggulden, Lateline.

Bernanke warning batters global markets

Bernanke warning batters global markets

Broadcast: 22/09/2011


Global markets have taken another beating with more than $30 billion wiped off Australian shares
after US Federal Reserve chief Ben Bernanke said the US economy faces significant risks.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Global markets have taken another beating, with more than $30 billion wiped
off Australian shares.

The sell-off was triggered by comments from America's Federal Reserve bank chief Ben Bernanke, who
said the US economy faces significant risks.

The Australian share market fell to its lowest level in two years with the All Ordinaries index
closing down 109 points. The Australian dollar dropped to 99 US cents.

Earlier today, Australia's deputy Reserve Bank governor Ric Battelino told a New York audience that
Australia's fortunes are closely tied to China and that any downturn in the US won't necessarily
affect Australia.

HSU president steps down ahead of inquiry

HSU president steps down ahead of inquiry

Broadcast: 22/09/2011


Health Services Union national president Michael Williamson has taken leave while an independent
panel of experts examines the governance of the union.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The national president of the Health Services Union has taken leave while an
independent panel of experts examines the governance of the union.

Michael Williamson has been accused of misusing credit cards along with federal Labor MP Craig

The union disaffiliated from the Labor Party last week and after a two-hour meeting today, the
union announced it has asked the head of the New South Wales Bar Association to run a review of the
union's credit card policy.

GERARD HAYES, HSU NSW DIVISIONAL SECRETARY: The union's tendering, recruitment and expenditure
processes, the union's contractual arrangements with suppliers, the current transparency in terms
of financial matters, the union's policy in relation to conflicts of interest.

TONY JONES: The NSW Police are also investigating allegations of inappropriate practises at the
Health Services Union.

Scientology leader branded 'violent and toxic'

Scientology leader branded 'violent and toxic'

Broadcast: 22/09/2011

Reporter: Steve Cannane

Former St George rugby league captain Chris Guider has spoken out about his time working with
Scientology's worldwide leader, David Miscavige.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: A former captain of the St George rugby league team has spoken out about his
time working with the worldwide head of the Church of Scientology.

Chris Guider walked away from a promising football career at the age of 24 to work full-time with
the church.

Now in an exclusive interview with Lateline, Chris Guider describes Scientology's leader David
Miscavige as a violent and toxic individual.

The Church of Scientology has denied his claims.

Steve Cannane reports.

STEVE CANNANE, REPORTER: At the age of 24, Chris Guider was at the top of his game. He was the
captain of St George and held a unique record.

ROY MASTERS, FORMER ST GEORGE COACH: Chris Guider had a record that will never be surpassed in
rugby league insofar as he played in three grand finals for the one club on the one day: first
grade, second grade and under-23s.

STEVE CANNANE: In 1986, he won the Dragons' player of the year award. Then, the player known for
his darting runs from dummy half took off and never came back.

ROY MASTERS: At the end of 1986 he announced that he was leaving. We knew he was interested in the
Church of Scientology and many of us assumed that that had become his full-time calling.

CHRIS GUIDER, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: I was basically told by the head of the organisation that I was
attached to at that time that I had to give away the rugby league.

STEVE CANNANE: Walking away from his rugby league career was a big sacrifice.

CHRIS GUIDER: Very difficult. I'd played 17 years, I'd played since I was a little kid and I loved
playing for the team that I was playing for.

STEVE CANNANE: Chris Guider started working full-time at the Church of Scientology in Sydney.

Two and half years later, he headed to the US. Within a month, he was working closely with the
Church of Scientology's leader David Miscavige in what's been called his honour guard, the RTC.

CHRIS GUIDER: I would go through the day looking for people that weren't following policy properly
or weren't in the right space they were supposed to be or the right area they were supposed to be
in and then handling those people so they got back to what they was supposed to be doing. And I'd
report directly to Miscavige on what I did that day.

STEVE CANNANE: David Miscavige became the leader of the Church of Scientology soon after the death
of its founder, L Ron Hubbard, in 1986.

Miscavige was active in recruiting Tom Cruise to Scientology and was best man at his wedding.

But Chris Guider thinks David Miscavige is not the kind of person who should be the head of a
religious movement.

CHRIS GUIDER: He's a violent individual. He is. And there are accounts of him being physical with
people. I've seen him physically beat one staff member, Mark Fisher, who was formerly an executive
in RTC and worked very closely with Miscavige for a lot of years. And I witnessed him beating him.

STEVE CANNANE: David Miscavige was not available to respond to these allegations. He's done only
one television interview in his 25 years as head of the church.

DAVID MISCAVIAGE, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY LEADER (archive footage, ABC Nightline, 1992): From my
perspective, the person getting harassed is myself and the church.

STEVE CANNANE: The Church of Scientology in the US turned down Lateline's request for an interview.
In an email, a spokeswoman claimed the allegations were a lie and attached two sworn declarations
from Scientologists Mark Yager and Mark Ingber, who claimed that David Miscavige did not hit Mark

But Mark Fisher told the St Petersburg Times Miscavige did beat him.

MARK FISHER, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: He was pulling on my hair and he was punching at me and kicking
at me and this went on for two or three minutes. And when he finally stopped and calmed down, I
stood up and I reached behind my head and my head was bleeding.

STEVE CANNANE: At least four former Scientologists have claimed publicly that David Miscavige also
hit them.

The Church of Scientology in the US said in an email to Lateline a small group of
anti-Scientologists were feeding stories to the tabloid press to generate controversy. The church
describes them a posse of lunatics led by a media whore.

But Chris Guider says David Miscavige is a violent man. He says at one point he was instructed by
the church leader to hit a colleague who was editing a Scientology promotional video.

CHRIS GUIDER: He was standing behind the person who was editing the property and telling him how he
was doing this wrong and that wrong and screaming at him.

In the ethics officer role you have this little - basically it's a riding crop, it's just a little
baton, and it's just meant to be a symbol of authority that the ethics office has. Well, anyway,
Miscavige told me to beat the guy with the stick. I looked at him and I refused to do that. He took
that very, very severely on me because I didn't just do what he wanted me to do.

STEVE CANNANE: In a statement, the Church of Scientology in the US described Chris Guider's
allegations as delusional. The church provided copies of three sworn declarations from current
Scientologists who deny the incident took place, including Chris Guider's ex-wife and the editor
involved, Gary Wiese.

Lateline has tried to contact Gary Wiese, but he has not returned our calls. The church says our
attempt to contact Gary Wiese to test his written denial has been inappropriate.

It's common practice for the Church of Scientology to issue blanket denials of allegations made
against them. When Anderson Cooper raised allegations of violence against David Miscavige on CNN,
the four ex-wives of the accusers claimed their former husbands were lying.

EX-WIFE OF ACCUSER (March 2010): We've been together all our lives. It's utterly ridiculous and it
isn't true.

STEVE CANNANE: In the Church of Scientology's internal justice system, making a public statement
against Scientology or Scientologists is considered the worst of all crimes.

CHRIS GUIDER: That's church policy. They're not supposed to admit to anything. So, anybody you
interview, they won't admit that they've done something wrong or it's not that way. They'll go
after you, the reporter, they'll go after whoever's putting the program together, they'll go after
the individual - that's how it works.

STEVE CANNANE: And you saw that happening when you were working in David Miscavige's office?

CHRIS GUIDER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, RTC would run that. There were executives in RTC that were on the
phones to attorneys telling them what to do and how to handle former members of the church.

STEVE CANNANE: Chris Guider says he was eventually punished for the incident in the edit suite by
being sent here, to the Rehabilitation Project Force, or RPF, in Dundas in suburban Sydney.

The Church of Scientology in the US disputes this, saying he went voluntarily to the RPF for, "...
long-term negligence in fulfilling his religious duties and his repeated violations of Church

The Church of Scientology says the RPF is a voluntary religious retreat. Defectors describe it as a
punitive re-education camp.

CHRIS GUIDER: It's like prison, except it's worse because you don't have television, you don't have
visitor rights, you can't read the newspaper, you can't read books, you can't listen to music.

STEVE CANNANE: Former Scientologists say those sent to the RPF are forced to wear black, do hard
labour and eat basic meals like rice and beans. They say they're not allowed to talk to others
except those on the RPF.

Chris Guider says he did two and a half years at the RPF in Dundas. He says the church seized his
passport and his credit card and paid him as little as $2 a week. He has made a formal complaint to
the Fair Work Ombudsman.

The Church of Scientology in Sydney refused Lateline's request for an interview about the RPF in
Dundas. In a statement they said, "The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is a voluntary religious
program of spiritual rehabilitation offered to provide a "second chance" to those who have failed
to fulfil their ecclesiastical responsibilities.

"The program does not include luxuries, to motivate the individual to improve himself and get
through the program to once again be a capable and contributing member of the group ... The
property is open to the street with free access to and from the property."

The church says they don't understand why someone who spoke positively about Scientology in a
newspaper article in 2008 can now be so negative about it.

For Chris Guider, one good thing came out of his time in the RPF; he met his wife Valeska. They've
since left the church and have a baby boy.

CHRIS GUIDER: I found out that the leader of the church right now, David Miscavige, is basically a
very toxic person. It's not about people's lives and helping other people, of being a beneficial
program for other people. It's not about that. It's about control and it's about getting money. And
that's - I disagree with that. And that's not what interested me in the first place, that's not
what got me to quit my football career.

STEVE CANNANE: Steve Cannane, Lateline.

TONY JONES: Well to read the statements from the Church of Scientology in Australia and the US in
full, head to our website where we also have links to some of the sworn declarations made by
current Scientologists.

Obama warns Palestinians against UN bid

Obama warns Palestinians against UN bid

Broadcast: 22/09/2011

Reporter: Craig McMurtrie

US president Barack Obama has defied sentiment in the United Nations by standing against a
controversial Palestinian bid for statehood through a Security Council vote.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: On the opening day of the United Nations General Assembly, the US president
cut a lonely figure, standing against a controversial Palestinian bid for statehood through a
Security Council vote.

In his speech, Barack Obama warned that there is no short-cut to peace.

While his stand pleased Israelis, it put him at odds with other world leaders, who are arguing for
Palestine to at least be granted UN observer status.

This report from Washington correspondent Craig McMurtrie.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE, REPORTER: Barack Obama came to the UN General Assembly to talk about universal
human rights and how the world has changed after the Arab uprisings. But to a largely silent room
of world leaders and diplomats, the President also acknowledged the bind he now finds himself in.

BARACK OBAMA, US PRESIDENT: ... that for many in this hall, there's one issue that stands as a test
for these principles and a test for American foreign policy, and that is the conflict between the
Israelis and the Palestinians.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: In a show of support, thousands of Palestinians rallied in the West Bank, backing
the Security Council bid for statehood. At UN headquarters, their leaders didn't hide their
disappointment as Barack Obama explained why his administration is determined to block it with a

BARACK OBAMA: There is no shortcut to the end of a conflict that has endured for decades. Peace is
hard work. Peace will not come through statements and resolutions at the United Nations. If it were
that easy, it would have been accomplished by now.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: Two years ago in Cairo the American leader held out the promise of a new beginning
with the Muslim world.

BARACK OBAMA: I've come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims
around the world, one based on mutual interest and mutual respect.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: Now, just as uprisings are transforming much of the Arab world, he finds himself
taking a position that will only damage his standing there.

BARACK OBAMA: Now I know that many are frustrated by the lack of progress. I assure you, so am I.

SAEB EREKAT, PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: I hope that the US would revisit its position, because if we
want to seek a Middle East that's democratic, free, void of extremists and so on, we cannot
maintain the status quo. The US cannot continue treating Israel as a country above the laws of man,
and that's the truth.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: With peace talks stalled, Israeli settlement building continuing and no sign of
compromise on either side, the US president finds himself isolated internationally and with few
options at home, entering an election year where Republican contenders are challenging his
commitment to Israel.

RICK PERRY, REPUBLICAN CONTENDER: It was wrong for this administration to suggest the 1967 borders
should be the starting point for Israel-Palestinian negotiations. ... Palestinian leaders must
publicly affirm Israel's rights to exist and to exist as a Jewish nation, a Jewish state.

BARACK OBAMA: I think it's fair to say that today our security co-operation is stronger than it has
ever been.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: After his address to the UN, the US leader sat down with Israeli prime minister
Benjamin Netanyahu.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Taking this position of principle, which is also I
think the right position to achieve peace, I think this is a badge of honour, and I want to thank
you for wearing that badge of honour and also to express my hope that others will follow.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: Frantic efforts are underway to try and delay a Security Council statehood vote
and get the two sides back into direct talks. But the Palestinians have another option: a General
Assembly vote granting them observer status and possibly membership of some UN bodies, a vote they
would almost certainly win.

Speaking after Barack Obama, the French president threw his support behind Palestinian observer

NICOLAS SARKOZY, FRENCH PRESIDENT (voiceover translation): This would be an important step forward.
After 60 years of immobility which has fanned the flames of extremism, we would be giving hope to
the Palestinians.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: US allies like Australia face an unenviable choice. A no vote or an abstention
could hurt Canberra's bid for a Security Council seat in 2013.

Late in the day, the US leader sat down with Mahmoud Abbas, the White House releasing a single
image of their meeting. The Palestinians say they don't question his integrity, just his

NABIL SHAATH, PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: He's in a year of elections and he has to really make up his
mind about how much of his time and influence and authority he wants to invest in solving what I
think to be the single most important peace process in the world today.

CRAIG MCMURTRIE: They may have isolated and angered Washington, but at the UN at least, they've
also gained rare leverage.

Craig McMurtrie, Lateline.

Martin Indyk discusses Palestinian statehood bid

Martin Indyk discusses Palestinian statehood bid

Broadcast: 22/09/2011

Reporter: Tony Jones

Martin Indyk is the vice-president for foreign policy at the Brookings Institutions, and a former
US ambassador to Israel.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: To discuss the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations and
president Obama's stance, I was joined from Washington a short time ago by Martin Indyk.

He's the vice president for foreign policy at the Brookings Institution and a former US ambassador
to Israel.

Martin Indyk, thanks for joining us.


TONY JONES: Now you've questioned the logic of the Palestinian move for driving president Obama
into the arms of the prime minister of Israel, but isn't that where American politics has always

MARTIN INDYK: Well when the United States seeks to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or the
larger Arab-Israeli conflict, it inevitably has to move from being in Israel's corner to being the
honest broker between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

And the way that that is done is critically important. Bill Clinton managed to do it in a way that
made Israelis feel that he understood them, would be in their corner, would underwrite the risks
they would need to take for peace.

Unfortunately, Barack Obama over the last two years has convinced the Israeli public of the exact
opposite. So now he's trying to make up ground by doing his best in the run-up to the American
elections to show that he's actually the best friend of Israel. But it doesn't make it easy for him
to play the role of mediator in that situation.

TONY JONES: Yeah. I guess looked at a different way, this move by the Palestinians may well have
broken a two-and-a-half-year stalemate because they now seem to be moving - at least they've put
the whole issue of getting peace negotiations restarted and indeed even a timetable for Palestinian
statehood back on the world agenda as opposed to the American agenda?

MARTIN INDYK: We'll have to see how it plays out in the next few days and there's feverish
diplomatic activity going on behind the scenes at the UN. But Abu Mazen has always said that after
he goes to the UN, he wants to go back to negotiations.

And if what happens here - and it's a big if at the moment - but if what happens at the United
Nations is that he gets a kind of resounding endorsement from the international community for his
bid for statehood, and the quartet of the US, the EU, the UN and Russia come out with a statement
some time over the weekend or on Monday that lays the basis, the principles for negotiations that
he can come home from the UN a kind of hero to his own people, but also have the basis for
beginning negotiations again with the backing of the international community.

TONY JONES: So what do you say to the New York Times argument today that what's happening here is
the Palestinians actually realised that Obama and the US indeed is paralysed by its own domestic
politics? And they actually are moving to shift from the old Israel, US and Palestine equation to
make it a global equation, to shift it out of America's pocket.

MARTIN INDYK: Well, I don't think that's Abu Mazen's strategy. I think he is very realistic about
what the international community can do. Support from the international community, a sense of
growing isolation in Israel can build pressure on Israel.

But don't forget Abu Mazen is the man who invented the whole strategy of negotiations as a way to
liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation. And, that was something - he was the engineer of the
Oslo Accords and he has believed in that ever since. He's opposed violence and terrorism and
advocated negotiations.

The problem is that there's a great credibility gap now because negotiations haven't produced the
statehood. And even though he knows that negotiation's the only way to achieve it, he needs to
reframe it in a way that has a chance of achieving that. And in that context, he knows that the
United States is the only one that can influence Israel.

And so, I think that behind what looks like a strategy designed to kick this into the United
Nations and have the United Nations somehow dictate a solution, I think he's realistic enough to
know that the only way out is actually what president Obama said in his speech yesterday, is

But with the backing of the international community, with the growing isolation of Israel, I think
he may feel that the playing field becomes more in his favour and the United States can then play
its mediating role in terms of getting Israel to come around.

The heart of the matter here, Tony, is what is the basis for negotiations, if I'm right that that's
what his game is about? The '67 lines, as the borders of the Palestinian state with territorial
adjustments, is something that the Palestinians have insisted on as the basis for negotiations. In
other words that there'll only be minor rectifications in the '67 borders.

I believe that Bibi Netanyahu finally is at a point where he's ready to accept that principle.
We'll see in the next week or so whether that in fact unfolds. And he has some additional
conditions which we can get into.

But if Abu Mazen comes back from the UN with Israel accepting the '67 lines as the basis for
negotiations, then he will have achieved something more than just the accolades of the
international community.

TONY JONES: Martin, I think what you're indicating there is - I mean, we see these - we see what's
happening out in front of the public, the posturing, the positions taken. Are you saying that
behind closed doors there's a far more pragmatic game being played?

MARTIN INDYK: Well I think we see it in public as well. You see, Abu Mazen had two choices. He
could have gone to the UN General Assembly to get a vote that would have been overwhelmingly in
favour of the Palestinians. Something like 120, 130 nations would have voted for, what? An
upgrading of the Palestinian status to non-member state.

And that - he could have gone that way, he could have gone to the Security Council to seek full
membership. He chose to go to the Security Council for full membership.

There, the United States has a lot more influence. It only has one vote in the General Assembly; it
has a veto in the Security Council. And that means that in the manoeuvring, the United States can
pressure countries like Gabon and Bosnia-Herzegovina and basically block the resolution of
membership even coming to a vote, and that's what's going on there.

So, in a way Abu Mazen was very pragmatic. He avoided a confrontation with the United States.

I don't think there's going to be a vote in either the Security Council or the UN General Assembly
today. It will just hover in the Security Council, the request for membership, as a kind of sword
of Damocles which can - can be introduced any time that the Palestinians are able to muster nine
votes to get the resolution on the table.

And I think that's all part of a broader effort to generate these pressures on the Israelis to
actually get real in the negotiations.

TONY JONES: Are you saying that Abu Mazen has actually rejected the French president's, Nicolas
Sarkozy's, compromise deal where they do get this non-member status, but in return they get a
definite timetable of negotiations?

MARTIN INDYK: You know, I'm having difficulty parsing what exactly Sarko is about here.

He declared in his speech that there should be a vote, that the Palestinians have observer status,
but they already have observer status. So I don't quite understand, just on the basis of what he
said, what his proposal is.

But I do think that the French, the British, Tony Blair, the Russians and the United States are
trying to find a way to get negotiations going again that would have a chance of actually producing
an outcome.

TONY JONES: Yeah, it is being reported, and I think you've alluded to this, that president Abbas -
or Abu Mazen, as you call him - is willing to put the UN statehood bid aside in return for
negotiations. This is what he's reported as saying behind closed doors even to Barack Obama. Is
that what you believe is going on?

MARTIN INDYK: Well, again, I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes, but my
understanding is he's not going to put it aside. He's going to leave it in the hands of the
Secretary General, the request for membership, and it will be sitting at the Security Council and
it can be introduced as a motion - Lebanon is actually in the chair of the Security Council - later

But that he will - he is likely to make his speech on Friday, leave town and then we'll see it

If there's an agreed quartet statement that both the Palestinians and Israelis can accept - and I'm
not sure they're there yet - then that will lay the basis for resuming negotiations, but what Abu
Mazen will have is something he hasn't had for the last two and a half years, which is the basic
terms of reference for those negotiations, including a timeline and including a specific reference
to the borders being based on the line of June 4th, '67 with swaps.

TONY JONES: Which does means, it seems to me, that this kind of brinkmanship inside the United
Nations may well have worked, may well have achieved a breaking of the stalemate.

MARTIN INDYK: Well, yes, but let's not get too optimistic here. Abu Mazen is definitely trying to
walk between the raindrops: avoid a confrontation with the United States, avoid a vote that will
lead to an automatic cut-off of US aid to the Palestinians, but engender the support of the
international community for an effort to get a negotiated solution that meets his minimum

The problem is that his minimum requirements and the maximum concessions that Bibi Netanyahu is
prepared to make are very far apart. There's a wide gap between those two things. And so even if
you get negotiations going again, it's still a stretch to imagine that these two leaders, with an
American president constrained by his design to get re-elected, that the three of them could find a
way to actually achieve an agreement.

TONY JONES: Now, for their part, the Palestinians say this bid for statehood in the UN was inspired
by the Arab Spring. It's a pretty potent symbol if they're able to use it in world terms, in terms
of public perception throughout the world. Do you think that will have some sort of resonance in
this whole argument?

MARTIN INDYK: Well we need to watch carefully what happens in the Palestinian street. The
Palestinian people have been amazingly quiescent in the period since February when the whole Arab
world has been in turmoil.

As people across the Arab world have come out and demanded freedom, the Palestinians have been very
reluctant to come out into the street to defend their freedom from occupation. And it's - it's kind
of a head-scratcher, but I think that the reason is similar to the reason you see that Algerians
are not out in the street.

Both the Algerians and the Palestinians have gone through horrendous violence that has scarred
them. The Intifada turned out to be a disaster for the Palestinians. In the last few years, in the
West Bank at least, the economic circumstances have improved quite dramatically and I don't think
they're ready to go back to those bad, old days and so they're hesitant.

We'll see demonstrations in support of Abu Mazen, but there seems to be a determination on the part
of the Palestinian government, the security services and the people that this should not get out of
hand and become violent. And that determination is, I think, reducing the willingness to use street
politics to try to change the calculations of the Israeli Government.

And I may be wrong about that; it may blow at any time, but the indicators aren't there yet that
there's going to be that kind of uprising on the part of the Palestinian people.

TONY JONES: Well Martin Indyk, we'll have to leave you there. We thank you very much for joining us

MARTIN INDYK: Thank you, Tony.

Troy Davis killed by lethal injection

Troy Davis killed by lethal injection

Broadcast: 22/09/2011


Convicted murderer Troy Davis has been executed in the southern US state of Georgia despite seven
of nine key witnesses recanting or changing their testimony since his trial.


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: Convicted murderer Troy Davis has been executed in the southern US state of
Georgia, ending an extraordinary legal case that drew hundreds of thousands of pleas for clemency
from around the world.

Davis was sentenced to death in 1991 for killing off-duty police officer Mark MacPhail. Since his
trial, seven of nine key witnesses recanted or changed their testimony, some alleging police

Appeals resulted in three stays, one coming within two hours of him being executed.

Davis maintained his innocence until the end, speaking directly to relatives of the dead policeman
who were seated in the front row of the chamber.

JOHN LEWIS, RADIO JOURNALIST: He said that he was not personally responsible for what happened that
night, that he did not have a gun. He said to the family that he was sorry for their loss, but also
said that he did not take their son, father, brother.

TONY JONES: Before he was killed by lethal injection Davis urged people to dig deeper into the case
to find the truth.

A quick look at the weather now. An early shower or two for Melbourne and Hobart. Mostly sunny in
all the other capital cities. That's That's all from us. If you would like to look back at
tonight's interview with Martin Indyk or look at any of our stories you can follow us on Twitter
and or FaceBook. Steve Cannane will b will be with tonight. I'll on level for the next two weeks.