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(generated from captions) consultation will seek the

views of indigenous leaders

and those particularly who don't have or haven't had

much of a voice so far in

formulating policy on what's

working, what's not, what

needs to happen in the NT.

Also taking a look at the

defence force posture review

announced today by the

Government. Do we have our

military assets in the right

place. Joined by Professor

Hugh White to look at that.

Stay with us after the break.

Welcome to the program.

The Government announced a

defence force posture review

today. It's going to look at

whether we need to change how

our military assets are based

in and around Australia to

take advantage or take notice

note of the changing security

and strategic environment in

the Asia Pacific. We'll be

talking to Strat eveningic

expert Professor Hugh white.

Do we have our military

assets stationed where they

should be. First to a discussion paper that was

announced by the Government

today from the indigenous

affairs Minister and the

Prime Minister on what needs

to happen when the NT

intervention wraps up next

year. It's four years this

week since the Howard Government announced this

following a damning report on

child abuse in the Territory in some indigenous

communities. As we've seen this intervention has

involved a lot of boots on

the ground in army and police

person nele, also alcohol

restrictions, pornography

restrictions, welfare quaran

tenge this forces parents to

spend their money where it

should be spent rather than

alcohol, cigarettes drugs and

the like. Today the indigenous affairs Minister

and the Prime Minister

launched this. It is looking

at key priorities, how to get

more kids into school, how to

reduce alcohol abuse and how to boost indigenous

employment. To tell us more

we're joined by Jenny

Macklin. The NT intervention

will come to an end next

year. Has it been a success

or a failure? I think there

have been some areas of

success and some areas where

we do need to do a lot more.

You've just highlighted some

of the areas we need to do a

lot more in. Getting children

to school and making sure

when they are at school they

are actually learning

literacy and numeracy,

getting to year 12, all the

areas that you emphasised

with alcohol abuse. We know

that this is a serious

problem. Aboriginal leaders reinforce that with us day

after day, so that too is

very important to us. And

getting people into work.

Making sure that people can be proud of going to work

every day, looking after

their families, not depending

on welfare. These certainly

are the priorities for us.

But we also want to do this

in a much more respectful

way. To spend the time

listening and talking with

people about the priorities

that they have for their

lives. We know how critical

the situation is but we also

want to sit with people, talk

with people about the best

way to... You're keen to

hear their ideas but are you

putting any new ideas of your

own on the table to deal with

these challenges. Of course

we're doing a lot in the NT

right now, we're not about to

stop the additional police or

stop the school meals or stop

the licensing of stores.

You're not stopping anything

under this intervention. All

of those measures are continuing and of course we

are seeing for the first time

from the monitoring report I

put out a couple of weeks ago for the first time we're

seeing a reduction in violent

crime and I think we should

credit that to the additional

police that have been put in

place. So critics of the intervention capital expect

you to drop any measures.

You'll stick with

everything. As you've said

in your introduction this

goes through until the

legislation stops this time

next year. But what we want

to do is really examine

ruthlessly what the impact

has been, and we're doing

that. We've just published an

evaluation of the licensing

of community stores. We're

doing an evaluation of income

management. Certainly what

people say to me is that they

have more money to put food

on the table as a result of

income management As an

outcome of this process

there's nothing particularly

in this intervention that you

think is not working, that's

a bad idea that needs to go.

I think there are areas where

we know we need to do more,

alcohol control is one. The

children are still not going

to school at the same rate

they should be. Their

literacy and numeracy is way

behind the rest of Australia.

So there's certainly a lot of

areas we need to do better

in You're really looking at

expanding, extending some of

the pranles that already

exist. On alcohol the idea of

a floor price, a minimum

price for alcohol, that one

you're attracted to? That's

one idea that's certainly

been proposed by many people.

There's other ideas that

people want to put forward.

My judgment will be based on

what works. What's the

evidence tell us? Will this

proposal work or not? Of

course we want to hear from

people who've tried different

approaches in their own

communities. Some of them

have tried permit approaches

on graot island, for example,

give people a permit to

drink. On getting kids into

school you've been trialling

this welfare quaran teening

that can dock parents'

welfare if the kids don't go

to school. We'll be

extending this this year.

People in the six areas where

we've started it. We'll look

at the results at the end of

the period butty'll also say

to parents "what else do we

need to do with you?". It's

parental responsibility to really first and foremost a

make sure kids go to school.

There's also some pretty

tough measures here that

you're keen to build on.

You're changing the name.

Intervention will have a

different name but y're

looking at the same sort of

measures. We're want toing

to work with people. What we

know there was a lot of hurt,

a lot of shame in the way it

was starred. You're really

working with them, in areas

where it's remote, where it's

entrenched disadvantage,

issism weeks long fluff to

really consult with these

people? What we want to do

is of course spend the time with people on the ground in

the communities, we'll

certainly have interpreter

services available. But this

won't be the end of it. Of

course we've got between now

and this time next year to

really develop our ideas,

talking with people, making

sure that once we listen we

can two back and set some feedback for whatever it is

that we might take from these

consultations It's not just

6 weeks of sult Sations.

That's right. We have seen

some projects that you point

to, more nutritious meals,

that's a good thing.

Whatty've seen also

documented is an alarming

rise in indigenous

incarceration, detailed in a parliamentary committee

report that calls it "a

national disgrace". Why are

we seeing a continued rise in

the number of indigenous

people in jail? One of the

reasons is alcohol. It comes

back to where we started. If

we could get more effective

alcohol controls, not just in

the NT because the issue you

raise is not limited to the

NT, it's right across

Australia, not just in remote

areas. We have seen some community, for example, in

WA, Fitzroy Crossing, hales

Creek, communities really

saying we're going to put

controls on alcohol. We are

seeing a reduction in crime,

a reduction in the problems

that come into our hospitals

as a result of alcohol abuse.

So if we can get effective

measures to deal with alcohol

then I think we will see a

reduction in the level of

crime. One of the key

recommendations in this

committee report this week is

setting targets at a Co. ag

level to reduce indigenous

incarceration, is that a good idea? That's certainly we

can certainly talk with our

State colleagues about. I do

think if everybody is aware

that we can deal with the

problems as they're sourced

as we have seen in some communities, they have

decided to put limits on the

amount of full strength beer

that's shown at the local

pub, then we will see a

reduction in the level of

crime On the employment

front, one of the priorities

here is to, as you say,

encourage more indigenous

employment. How can you do

that in some of these remote

communities? One of the best

examples we saw just a

fortnight ago in the Northern

territory was up in Gove

where we had the local

tradition al owners signing a

massive agreement with one of

our big companies, Rio Tinto

Alcan for the bauxite mine

and covering the town as

well. A lot of these

communities don't have big

miners in their area. And a

lot of them do not far away.

If we can find ways as we

have in Gove to provide opportunities for training

for people who live some

distance away who are able to

travel to work, as lots of

Australians do, fly in, fly

out, who still might maintain

their base in their community

but come to the mine, we've

got examples of tourism,

there are of course other

jobs in community in the

community welfare sector,

aged care, child care. The

sort of work that can happen

in local government, looking

after the roads, all of these

are jobs that we wan to see

Aboriginal people ready and

able to take. We'll have to

receive it there. Thanks for

joining us. Thank you After

the break our panel. Stay with us.

Welcome back. First let's

check in on the latest news

headline. Here's Vanessa.

Flights are gradually resuming in southern

Australia as the threat from

the Chilean volcano ash cloud

eases. The latest details on

flight cancellations, Qantas

services are now operating to

and from Sydney, Canberra,

Melbourne and Adelaide. But

Hobart Svs remain suspended

and trans-Tasman flights are

cancel until further notice.

Checking Virgin flights

Sydney and Canberra services

are now back on stream as

well as flights to and from Newcastle Albury Melbourne

and Adelaide, Hobart and

Launceston flights along with

those to and from New Zealand

have been suspended for the

next 48 hours. Jetstar and

Sydney and Newcastle flights

are operating again whilst trans-Tasman flights have

been cancelled for the day.

Tiger airways has cancelled a

total of 24 flights. Contact

the airline for specific

details. Qantas has vowed to

revamp the airline after

forecasting its international

services will lose $200

million this financial year. However, overall annual

profit will be up to more

than half a billion dollars.

And that sent share prices

higher. CEO Alan Joyce has

praise the the result despite

the loss. A major review of

Australia's defence force has

been announced which could

see thousands of troops

relocated to the country's

north-west. War ships and

fighter jets would also be

shifted from the eastern

States to better protect oil

and gas assets off the WA and

the NT coast. The review is

due to be finished early next

year. Into video has emerged showing violent demonstrations between

security forces and antiregime protestors on the

streets of Syria. The footage

allegedly depicts pro Government supporters opening

fire on the crowd. According

to locals 7 people were

killed if the clash but that

can't be verified because jernleists have been banned

from the country. And in

sport, 6 AFL players tested

positive for illicit drugs in

out of competition tests in

the last 12 months. The AFL

released the results today,

saying they air happy that

only half a dozen players

broke the rules. Five were

for stimulants, a group of

drugs that include cocaine

speed and ex it's, while one

was for cannabis. Tomorrow's

forecast, clearing in the

south-east with showers

easing. Mostly sunny in

central parts and increasing

clouds in the south-west.

Thank you the. Let's wel come

our panel, Matt Franklin from

the Australian and Michelle

regretin from the age. I want

to discussion on the discussion paper that's been

launched by the Government to

look at what to do once the

intervention wraps up next

year. From what we've heard

so far from Jenny Macklin and

Julia Gillard do you think we are going to see much change

from the way the intervention

is working now? No, I don't

think we're going to see much

change at all. In fact, a

tofening. Some of the people

that Minister Macklin and the

Prime Minister have been

negotiating with, they want

even firmer tougher alcohol

restrictions. I think for me

the story in this discussion

paper is not that - it might not look like there's going

to be a lot of change, it's

that the Government is

sticking with it. There are a

lot of groups out there that

would like to see this thing dismantled. Jenny Macklin

was just telling us the areas

they need to focus on, alcohol abuse and getting

kids into school. We are

going to be talking about

tougher measures, extending

that quarantine, tougher

measures on chobl, she Sehwag

we want to consult more.

Problems were indigenous

leaders weren't consulted.

People were angry. I think

they do want to give any

tougher measures the

legitimacy of a consultative

process. It will be fairly

brief and no doubt they'll get divergent voices but nevertheless they can say

they've been out to the communities, talked to

people, they've got support

for what they're doing. It's

a good point, there are very

different views in the

indigenous communities about

this thing. That's right. If

it was so simple of course these things would have been

done. The problems would not

be there. I think what

happens often is that

Governments go out, talk to

the communities, the people

especially the women who've

been getting a bad time in

the communities, tell their

stories and say "Please do

something". But then often

the measures are undermined

by those with power in the community and therefore

little change is made, the

progress is minimal. Which

is why the Government has to

sometime by them, successive Governments, this needs to be bi-partisan for some long

period or else we won't

actually get change there.

You can go and ask an alcoholic, should they be

allowed to drink, what are

they going to tell you? As

Jenny Macklin says forget

about the rights of people to

get drunk, what about the

rights of kids to grow up in

a safe environment, the

rights of their mothers to

live without being bashed by

their husbands. Do you think

this is a bipartisan area,

despite what's said why don't

the two leaders go out and do

more events together in

indigenous communities, when

you break it down they're not

too dissimilar. No, I think

it is largely bipartisan now

because of the very intense

nature of politics at the

moment in this parliament

because of Tony Abbott style

it often can be seen not to

be so. Really Tony Abbott

believes in this tough love approach as does the Government. If he was in

power he would be pursuing

particular measures. The

Greens don't like it, they

hate the intervention, they

particularly believe there's

still elements of racial

discrimination going on here

because proportionately in

the Northern tet you've got a

lot more indigenous people

this will apply so. The left

won't be all that happy with

what's been announced. For

as long as we've had this

debate there's two sides to

thing argument. There's your

left which says what about

the rights of people. Then

you've got the other side of

the argument which says yes,

but these problems are so

serious that they require

unusual measures. And that -

nothing is going to change

with this, there's going to

be that argument for as long

as we go. I don't know if the

Greens people who are

critical of that have been up

into some of these

communities, I assume they

have. But if you talk to both

sides of the argument as the

Minister says she has, you get this thing copping through about women and children, what about the

future, forget about rights,

what about kids? Let's go to

an area where there is far

more political divide between

Labor and the Coalition at

least, the carbon tax, every

other day we're getting

different reports on whether

they're making progress or at

each other's throats. At the

end of last week it seemed

they were having a few

difficulties, but today

reports at least that they

are getting closer to a deal.

Both Bob broin and his deputy

were asked about the progress

being made or otherwise. Here

is their response. We have

very real hubldss in the

negotiation process. We are

all working very hard, and

that means all of us, to try

and get an outcome because we

gave an undertaking that we

would try to get a carbon

price by the end of the

month. We're certainly trying

to do that. Trying to get an

agreement by the end of the

month. Michelle, how do you

see things going? I'm not

sure whether they'll actually

make the deadline of the end

of the month but tomorrow be

very soon after. I think if

you take the helicopter view

you would have to say from

all we're hearing from them

and from the underlying

political interests of Labor

and the Greens they will get

a deal. Yes, there are a

couple of outstanding issues,

no doubt these are difficult

so you get all the argy-bargy

of the actual haggling but in

the end they're going to get

a deal and it's going to be a

compromise. Bob Brown has said numerous times it won't

be a Green deal, it will be

short of a Green deal. He's

conceding in that that there

will be significant

compromise by the Greens. Labor at the end of the day

cannot afford for this to

fall over. Don't forget all

the massive pressure on to

Julia Gillard and Greg Combet

saying we're going to stick

by you but can you sort this

out. We're dying here. I

think the comments of the

Greens today are indicative,

there are still sticking points, still things they

want to hang in there for but

I think the expectation that

is coming out the Government

through badge benchers and

through the business

community, June 28 somewhere

around there they're hoping

to land. But Labor will

compromise less than the

Greens because Labor has to

take into account what's

acceptable to public opinion.

Therefore the Greens are the

ones who are going to have to make the greater

concessions. Tabts's pushed

this week for a plebiscite on

the carbon tax giving all

Australians a vote on it. He

hilt a brick wall today in

the seven ate when the motion

was actually put to the upper

house and whether should be a

a plebiscite. Steve Fielding

in what will be one of his

final acts as a Senator, he

voted against it. Here he

was. And I don't back a

political stunt that is

nothing more than an $80

million glorified opinion

poll. Steve Fielding,

despite the fact family First

party President Bob Day

reckons he should have backed

a plebiscite. He's backed

them on that. He's also in

the last half hour or so

backed the Government on the

exit fees. So he has come on

side with Labor in his final

week in the Senate. Why do

you think that is? I don't

know David. Ever since this

Senator has been here he's

been as un predictable as the

weather in Melbourne. I'm not

sure where he's at on this. I

think he's actually probably

listened to people when they

consider this $80 million proposal. Everyone's calling

it a substitute and stunt -

- stunt and it is. You have

to go to some right wing

parties who want to have a

ballot on everything. What

about the argument Julia

Gillard said one thing before

the election and is now doing

another. If people don't

like that they'll have a say, they'll put her out of

Government It will be too

late then though won't it

You should ask her had. We

have a partialitiry system,

it doesn't make sense to have

ballots on everything. Do you

want to go to the local school every Saturday and

govern the country from thele

ballot box It would be a great story for journal

efforts. If it is a stunt has

it been an embarrassment for

Tony Abbott or do you think

it's given him a few days of

something to talk about?

It's hard to tell. It took

the Government by surprise.

It got publicity. Some people

out there would say a vote

would be a good thing. I

agree with Matthew, it's

illogical and not a good

course in itself but as a

political tactic it's another

thing. Of course Tony Abbott undermined his own case by

saying if it happened to get

through and he happened to

get into Government he'd

ignore it. That's a lot of

money to be ignored but the

nice thing is I think Steve

Fielding who of course is a

bit of a stuntster himself

condemning this as a stunt is

a wonderful way to leave parliament. Another

criticism of Tony Abbott's

approach one of his back

benchers said to me this

could well come back to haunt

Tony Abbott if he does become

Prime Minister, the question

is why don't you have a

plebiscite on this, on that. In at thetime this afternoon

of course the Opposition pursued the carbon tax but

also the asylum seeker deal with Malaysia that's yet to

be signed. What are we, six or seven weeks since Julia

Gillard announced it. In

particular this week being the anniversary of the Kevin

Rudd assassination, the

Coalition was niggling away

at why Kevin Rudd isn't out

there doing more to sign and

seal this Malaysian deal and

indeed other agreements in

the region to deal with

people smugglers. A about the

of background, Kevin Rudd and

Julia Gillard we know it's a

strained relationship,

according to eth it's bran

diswho put this on the record Kevin Rudd holds Julia

Gillard in such disdain that

he now refers to the Lodge as bow beganville because

bogans, live there. This question followed this

afternoon. Will the Foreign

Minister advise the house

when he intends to return to

boganville The deputy Leader

of the Opposition asked about

boganville, can I say as she

embarks on her first visit to

bowinganville, something that

the House may not be advised

of is that the Australian

Government remains seize ed

on the up coming boganville

peace process, therefore what

we might do as a country to ensure that that peace

process is brought to its

proper conclusion. A pretty

funny question I suppose,

sailed right over the heads

of a lot of people bachg watching. That's right, but

those in the know of course

enjoyed it. One wonders

whether the participants

enjoyed it. They have been

getting on well, Julie Bishop

and Kevin Rudd. They have

This week hasn't been as bad

as it could have been for

Labor on the anniversary frount, Matt I think Tony

Abbott's crazy tactic of

going with this plebiscite

took the spotlight and took

the spotlight off the

anniversary. That's a good

point. A lot of people were

planning to do a lot more coverage, I was certainly

tapping that vein, things

moved on. However there was

an interesting question from

Scott Morrison when he asked

about the Malaysian solution,

and he said why did you announce this before you

finalised the details of it.

To me as I pondered the year of Julia Gillard in

Government there's been a few

incidents of that, if you ask

me what's been her biggest

mis take, she just can't seem

to sell anything before he

needs to announce. It We'll

leave you to ponder. That

after the break we're going

to look at this defence force posture review. Do we have

our military assets in the

right spots? Stay with us.

The Government today

announced a defence force

posture review. This will

report back early next year

and will look at whether we

have our military assets

located in the right places

at the moment given the

changing security and

strategic environment in our

region. The review will be

chaired by two former chiefs

of the defence department,

Rick Smith and Alan Hawke. It

will look at the growing need

for Australia to provide humanitarian assistance in

the region, how to protect

our offshore gas and oil

resources, and also the

growth of military power in

the region. The Defence

Minister was keen to play

down that this was aimed at

China. China is not the only

country in the Asia Pacific

which is enhancing its

military. What we say is also

what we say to other

countries, which all we ask

in terms of a growth of

military capability, is that

one is transparent as to its strategic intentions. Jienge

me now is Professor Hugh

White from the ANU strategic

and defence studies centre.

Thank for your time. Firstly

is this force ed posture

review a good idea right

now? I think it's a very

good idea that the Government

has acknowledged that its

defence policy it's running on at the moment has got out

of touch with the realities

in the region. I think it's

strange for them to revisit

the whole foundations via an

analysis of whether the submarines are placed in the

right place or whether we've

got enough troops in Darwin.

Is this essentially redoing the white paper that we

recently did? If you look it announcement that Stephen

Smith made today it requires

to go back and look at the

report in 2009 and the kinds

of forces we need. But it's

doing a white paper by

stealth almost because it's

not going through a white

paper process. Is it an acknowledgement that the

white paper was wrong.

Absolutely, the white paper

of 2009 just didn't really

address the very billing

strategic challenges posed to

Australia by the way that China's power is growing and

that's changing the whole

strategic balance. Stephen

Smith said it's not aimed at

China. Is it? Well, a very

important part of this

process, something the

Government's been talking a

lot about, as America reviews

the kinds of forces it has

here, Australia is looking at

offering more bases for

American forces in Australia.

I think that's a very

sensitive issue, it's got

huge implications for our

relationship with China, huge

implications for what would

happen to Australia if the US

and China get into a more

contested strategic

relationship Surely this

should wait until we know

whether or not we're going to

have a lot more American

assets on the ground here. I

take it a step further, we

shouldn't be agreeing to have

more until we work out what

our defence policy is. I

think there's a lot of much

deeper questions that we

still have to address

Looking at that, are we

siding too much with the

United States, is that what

you area saying? I think

there's a risk that we are

encouraging those in the

United States who think the

right way to respond is to

try and push China back into

a box. We don't want to make

sure that China doesn't end

up dominating the region.

Just to try and push it right

back in the box that it was

in 30 years ago is very

doubtful. I don't think it

works for Australia's

interest or America's

interests. We saw China

react angrily to the white

paper, how are they going to

take this? If Australia

announces substantial

expanded American basing in

Australia, they'll be seeing

that as direct against China.

I suspect they'll react very

angrily. The Government ought

to ask itself how do we

respond if chin decide to get

back at us. I hope they

don't take this on unless

they've really worked out how

best to handle it. One of

the things it's going to look

at is the vubt of offshore

gas and oil platforms. Is

that something we should be

worried about. These are

largely corporate assets. Is

it something we should be

defending? There is obvious

ly an important issue about

the security of those sorts

of platforms. If the question is security from the forces

of a major other power like

China, then you've got to

remember the question, who's

actually buying the stuff

that's coming from these

guys, it's going to China

anyway. I don't see there

being a serious threat from

China to our oil and gas

resources, for example, off

the north-west shelf. There

might be a lower level terrorist threat but that's

been pretty well addressed.

That's an issue that augts

have been addressing for 30

years. We face a newel

chaening there, the idea is

not clear to me The a final

question, Barack Obama will

announce the first draw down,

what do you reckon he'll do

and what's it going to mean

for Australia? The first

thing to say is he will do

what he said he would do. He

said he would start bringing

American troops out by the

middle of 2011. He's sticking

to that. I think he will manage that transition in

order to minimise the

political impact at home and

in order to minimise the

complaints that he'll get

from the military but politically in America

Afghanistan is over. Barack

Obama wants to get out.

No-one is opposing him on

that. I think we'll see a

substantial number of troops

announced quite soon. I think

a lot more will come out

before the first Tuesday of

next year, presidential election. I think he'll stick

to the timetable. For

Australia, politically, we'll

have to follow. We will

follow. Australia will come

out as America comes ute and

my feeling is we'll leave

Afghanistan looking very much

like it does today. Let's

check finally what's been

happening in business today.

All quies were on the Qantas

boss Alan joys here in

Canberra. We did give us a

few more details about the

out look for the company.

What's the takeout. First the company's shares were

placed in a trading halt.

That got the market a bit

nervous. The company did come

out and gave us some guidance

for this financial year

saying it's expecting pretax

profit between a00 and $550

million. If those targets are

hit the best performance for

the national carrier since the global financial crisis.

However not all is well. Alan

Joyce today in his speech at

the national press club

outlining that the international business of

Qantas is bleeding. It's

expected to lose as much as

$200 million this year and

the losses are expected to

increase next year. Things

not looking good and Alan

Joyce has given us some vague

outlines of a plan to stop

that bleeding. The full

details will be released on

August 24 but in the meantime

Alan Joyce telling us that

the international business

will be restructured. It will

be Asian focussed, looking

for more jointly ventures and

alliances. It's all

interesting because of the

timing, the volcano ash

cloud, Qantas and Alan Joyce

saying that the airline is up

for as much as $120 million

but it's really important to

note that that is really only

up until 20 June. So the full

extent of this volcano ash

cloud on the bottom line,

they much unknown. With the

naleists that I've been

seeking to today, that's the

big question mark, how much

will this volcano ash cloud

end up costing the company,

of course the market is

keenly awaiting for further

details on how this this

Qantas revamp will happen,

what the international

business will look like post

August 24. Interesting to

know that Qantas shares did

perform in line with the

broader market today. Just

on the final market today,

how did it finish up? Pretty

good, we had another day of gains, roughly half a per

cent. All eyes on the US

tonight, hearing from the

FOMC, we'll find out about

interest rates in the United

States. Indeed, thank for

that, we'll talk tomorrow.

We're out of time for today's

show. Stay with us though.