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(generated from captions) This Program is Captioned Live. Hello, I'm Eleanor Hall. Coming up on The Drum the new Government looks at big changes for the university sector. The Clive Palmer party wins a second Senate spot and Julia Gillard signs a book deal.Joining me on the panel tonight Sean Kelly, Christine Forster and Jonathan Green. First here's Johanna Hatcher with the latest news. Thanks Eleanor. An inquiry has found a weakness in tactics, techniques weakness in and procedures led to weakness in tactics, and procedures led to an inadequate level of and procedures led inadequate level of protection
for Australian

remote patrol base in Afghanistan last year. Three Australian soldiers were shot and killed at the base by a rogue Afghan soldier. The report found there was a shortfall in force protection and in the decisions made on the ground.Unions say customer service will be hit as Telstra axes more than 1,000 jobs in a major restructure. Telstra says the jobs must go from its operations team as it shifts its focus to providing online services for businesses. The cuts represent about 3% of Telstra's 30,000-strong work force.The death toll from a powerful earthquake in Pakistan has now passed 230. The 7.8 magnitude quake struck Pakistan's south-west yesterday and was felt across south Asia. It cut communications and destroyed hundreds of mud houses in a remote area near the Iranian border.And two wins by team USA today in the America's Cup on San Francisco Bay has set up a nail biting sudden death finish in the quest for sailing's greatest prize. The next race, scheduled for tomorrow, will decide the victor. That is the latest news for now. Back to The Drum with Eleanor Hall. Live.
This Program is Captioned

Hello, welcome to The Drum, I'm Eleanor Hall. Coming up - Christopher Pyne orders a review into the university system. The Palmer United Party lands another Senate spot and Labor's Bill Shorten admits to preplanning a question at last night's leader's debate. Our panel tonight - Sean Kelly, a former advisor to Gillard and Rudd. Liberal Sydney city counsellor and the PM's sister Christine Forster and in Melbourne, the host of Radio National Sunday Extra, Jonathan Green. You can join us on Twitter. The new Government has flagged big changes for tertiary education. The minister, Christopher Pyne, says he is opposed to the compulsory student services fee and wants to review Labor's demand-driven system for university places. The Education Minister says he fears university standards have slipped under the current policy.We will put quality in tertiary education as our No.1 priority and that means we need to review the demand-driven system of university places because there is some evidence and the previous Government had a similar view, there is some evidence that quality is suffering to achieve quantity.Mr Pyne says this doesn't mean the Government intends to reintroduce caps for university places. Is something he told the ABC months wouldn't
the Coalition Government he told the ABC months ago that
wouldn't do.We have no plans to restore the cap. We do believe that the more students who are doing university the better. We do need to address concerns in the industry that there is a diminution of quality.Labor says the Coalition is breaking its promises.This is a clear breach of commitment from the Liberal Party. Christopher Pyne issued this press release which was very clear "Coalition will not cap places or raise HECS" just this July John on the '7.30' report Mr Pyne said the Coalition had no plans to abolish the demand-driven system. The only difference between now and July is now they are in office. They have been in office a week and we see them walking away from core commitments.Jonathan Green, are you surprised by the Education Minister's comments today given what he was saying before the election? Surprised higher education
too he is jumping out into higher education as his first point of business. There has been so much talk about schools through the campaign. Here we are - I think it is going a little bit far to say that they are walking away from those commitments on caps and HECS and the like. That seems to be far
the stamp of this Government so far that much will be looked into, the inquiry. What comes of that and whether that merely a mechanism for masking the true intention is another thing but you the thing but you need to give the benefit of the doubt. If there is some sort of evidence that is some standards are in some sort of decline and the enrolment figures might suggest something like that is figures might like that is going on, that like that absolutely should be investigated.Christine Forster, the minister says he is not about to renege on his any
pre-election promises. Is there any point to a review if you're not actually going to act on it? The new Government Eleanor, is going to be very outcome-focused. They have been elected. They have a mandate. They want to get in and take a look at everything and see what is working and what isn't. That is fair and sensible to do that. There will be things that will work better than others. I am sure there will be things they will want to change. They will need to look at it first up. That is what they were elected job that job.The minister says he is focused on quality and he won't be bound by anything that the previous Government. That is fair enough isn't it? I think the sad truth is it doesn't matter whether or not there is a broken promise. Education is not the Coalition's core strength, it is not their brand, it is Labor's brand. Christopher Pyne knows very well he will never win an election on education so they can afford to cut and make changes. It won't be popular in the education sector or with people who care on education.Do you think from his comments today the minister is backing away from making cuts? No. I think the big question is whether the review is genuine and it is exactly your question. Is this the type of review that Government orders because they have an open mind or the type of review they order because they know what they need to do and they need a smokescreen? How are those in the university sector reacting. We are joined by the Universities
CEO of the Regional Universities Network Dr Caroline Perkins.The minister says you would have to be living in a bubble to think there wasn't an issue about quantity affecting quality in the university sector. Is he right? No, I don't believe he is. We think quality should be judged on outcomes and the way you should judge the quality of university education is on the quality of students produced. We now are only into the second year of the demand-driven student system and we won't see the first graduates until the end of next year. Many of the new students we have enrolled in regional universities are in professional degrees, allied health, engineering where the standards for the university degrees are set by professional bodies. The standards are there. I think what the minister is referring to is that students are coming in - some are coming in on lower university entrance scores.Indeed, nationally there was a student numbers last year there was a 21% surge that cap was student numbers that cap student numbers last year when of those that cap was fully lifted. Some of those students had entrance of scores below of those students had scores compromising quality? scores below 50.Isn't that the point not every student compromising quality? I make gets into the point not every gets into university based on gets into university based their school exit scores. Many students at regional students at universities come in as mature aged students, people who either do a year of an enabling course, a preuniversity course to bridge school university or on the basis of work experience. You shouldn't assume that it is just school levers going into university. At regional universities we pride ourselves on providing support for students who come to our institutions. Many people in regional Australia are the first to go to university. Some haven't been particularly well prepared for university and we offer the support to try and ensure that they successfully complete degrees.If you don't think it is an issue of quality, why do you think the minister is looking at this, do you agree that it is a cost cutting issue? It is very possible. We know the Government is under very significant Budget pressure. I would also like to make the point that this is not just an issue about education, it is really about regional development and how the education of people in regional Australia enables the diversification in the industry and therefore contribute to national productivity. It is not just an education lens we should look at this issue through t is an economic lens and regional development is of critical importance to any Government, I would have thought particular important to the Coalition Government.Do you think the Coalition you think that that Labor target of having 40% target 25-35-year-olds of holding a university degree is realistic? 25-35-year-olds of Yes, it is a realistic target in Yes, it is a in that at present we are on about 37% so the target of 40% is realistic by 2025. That is an average. Indeed in some capitals the higher education attainment rate for 24-35-year-olds would already be at or above 40% which means there are many regions in Australia where the attainment rate is well below that. What we have to do is focus on lifting participation still in regions where that really lags behind. We need to have enough skilled professionals to work in regional Australia, to contribute to the modern economy and to diversify industry in the regions.To what extent does this demand-driven model make it hard for your members, the universities in regional Australia, to manage their resources for the number of students coming in? It is up to universities themselves under this system to decide how many students they want to enrol and in what courses. In response to the demand-driven system it has enabled our universities to put on new courses in things like allied health and engineering where professionals are needed in the region but it is up to the universities to decide how many students to enrol in what courses.If this review finds quality is suffering and that Australia's international reputation is being damaged, would you expect the Government to act? What do we mean by quality? We will continue to argue that quality should be judged on the quality of the graduates produced by the system. The Government really has to think are they happy with the current situation where half the proportion of people in regional Australia have a degree compared to the capitals? Is that right for the economy? Don't we want to try and grow innovative industry in regional Australia and have enough professionals trained in the regions to work in the regions in health, engineering etc.? The findings - the Government will have to act in a sensible way to further encourage participation, higher education in regional Australia and therefore further develop regional economies.Another issue that the minister raised today is the compulsory student services fee. If that were to be changed, to be made not compulsory but voluntary would that create a problem for your members? Yes. We think it will. The student services fee as it is now, it is only allowed to be directed towards services, things like sporting facilities, food outlets on campuses, health services etc. It is not allowed to be focused or directed towards political parties. or directed towards parties. Our concern is this would be an additional parties. Our concern is would be an additional cut of funding to would be an funding to universities on top
of everything else. This is on top of over $3 billion worth of cuts to universities and to student support that was proposed by the former Labor Government and is supported by the Coalition. It is just another cut to the funding of universities, it will adversely impact not only on the services we can provide to students at regional campuses but also to regional communities. In many cases the university provides the best sporting facilities and other facilities in town.Are you concerned that the Government may look at university fees? The Government may indeed do that. I believe if they do, there will be a full and proper consultation. We will be robustly inputting into that. Certainly that is a possibility.Dr Perkins thanks for joining us.Thank you.Jonathan Green, looking at this compulsory student services fee issue. This is something that the Government raised - in fact axed last time when it was in Government. Do you expect that the Coalition will act on this and will it make much difference given all it will be doing is going from a compulsory to a voluntary system? They kicked this out in 2005. It is proof that our parliamentarians are student politicians grown up. This was the great politics of envy of the early 80s where student union fees were siphoned off to the left a
students were left somewhat at a financial disadvantage. That is a financial is no longer the case. These fees now go into services, not into politics. It is hard to leave these culture student war troops behind. It was hard for the Howard Government, I suspect that student politicians like, for example, the PM may well be tempted to continue this campaign. We will see. Christopher Pyne is talking that down but time will tell.Christine Forster what do you think, is this student politics being acted out on the big stage? Student politicians do grow up luckily.Only a bit!I was one myself and I think I still have some growing up to do. It is something that the Coalition has opposed. I did see Christopher Pyne today saying it wasn't a priority. He is obviously not looking at that for now. As I said before, they are focused on outcomes, on quality and higher education is so important for the country, for national productivity and our international reputation. We need top-notch quality higher education happening in Australia and that is what they are focused on achieving rather than getting too much into the debate about compulsory services fees which obviously would be controversial. They are more focusing now on just delivering a better service.Sean Kelly, what do you think, will the Government act on this? I think they will. I don't think they will do it immediately. I would be shocked if they didn't.Let's go to New York where the his
Indonesian Foreign Minister met his Australian counterpart and says he warned her not to implement parts of her Government's asylum seeker policy. Marty Natalegawa met Julie Bishop overnight at the United Nations headquarters. He told the Indonesian media that

Ms Bishop is insisting that the meeting was positive and productive.There can be some misunderstanding as to what our policy is and it policy is and it is certainly not policy is and it is not to, in any way, show disrespect for not to, in any way, sovereignty and for anyone to think that was disrespect for Indonesian
sovereignty and think sovereignty and for anyone to
think that would be a think that was our policy, would be a mistake. Our policy respects Indonesia's sovereignty and Indonesia's territorial borders.Labor says it is another indication that the Coalition's plan to turn back the boats from Indonesia won't work.Very different reports from the Indonesian Foreign Minister, from the Indonesian media than we have seen from the Australian media and Foreign Minister. Clearly something is going on here. I suspect that minister Natalegawa has made it very clear, as he did before the election as we warned, that Indonesia wouldn't cooperate with a turn-back policy and I suspect that is why we haven't seen a turn-back under this Government.Jonathan, Julie Bishop says her Government's asylum seeker policy respects Indonesia's sovereignty but do you think it will be a problem for Government? I don't think they can have been in any doubt to
for a while that this was going to be a tense negotiation. The other aspect is the line that the Coalition ran in Opposition that Kevin Rudd was making this an international issue when we should resolve these things domestically. We are seeing the awkwardness of that, where the rubber hits the road, and this will be incredibly complex and the Indonesians are pretty much putting a line in the sand. Pushing back boats is one thing and that is going to be an interesting negotiation when that happens for the first time but the other stuff like buying boats and putting money into fishing communities, it is incredibly paternalistic. That
as incredibly paternalistic. as the Indonesians backs up. This will need some pretty careful dancing, I careful think.Christine Forster, the PM is heading to Jakarta next week. Do you expect he will be doing some back pedalling on his policy? He did make the commitment before the election that Indonesia would be the first place that he would visit as PM. It is an incredibly important and difficult area. I think the difference we will see from this Government, the Abbott Government is that the diplomacy will take place behind closed doors as opposed to out in the open through the press in Australia. There will be a lot of talking, a lot of discussion, hard work done, but it will be done behind closed doors, out of the spotlight of the media and it will be done with a lot of care and attention, with absolute consideration of the Indonesian position in this.With a fair sense of urgency you would have to say. The boats have to stop here, that is the commitment and that is an incredible pressure.Not if you don't announce them. Sean, reading between the lines here on this meeting in New York between Marty Natalegawa and Julie Bishop, how robust do you think it really would have been? Foreign policy is always conducted in code. Marty Natalegawa is a very powerful figure in the Indonesian Government and
Government. He speaks for the Government and has the ear of the President. He wouldn't have had to put his case very forcefully for it to be heard strongly by Julie Bishop.Sean just mentioned the issue of secrecy there. We saw the first asylum seeker boat arrive in Darwin under this new policy of not announcing each boat. Do you think secrecy looks bad for the Government given that in Opposition they made such a feature of their plans to stop the boats? I think it is worse than bad. It is morally appalling. The argument advanced by Scott Morrison this week that to publicise boat arrivals in some way aids the people smuggling trade which was represented by Mr Morrison and Mr Abbott in opposition which is something that led to deaths at sea and less than a month ago they were counting each boat with glee, happily representing each new arrival. By their logic now, that was aiding the people smugglers and leading potentially to peoples' deaths. It is an extraordinary turn around. I don't know how as a political culture we can brush that aside as Oh well there you go, they are in Government they have changed their tune.Christine Forster morally appalling? I don't agree. It is important to take it out of the 24-hour news cycle. It is a very important issue. It is a life and death issue. There has to be a lot of work done on a whole range of policies. It is a package of policies that worked under the Howard Government and that the new Government is looking to put in place, a number of them. They are designed basically to dangled
take away the prize that is dangled by people smugglers. Taking it out of the 24-hour Taking it out of news cycle is not a bad thing.Is this just news cycle is not a difference between thing.Is this just the difference and Government? It is to a
and Government? very large extent the difference between Opposition and Government. It is also the difference between what Labor, who don't have a strong reputation on border security can get away with. They wouldn't have got away with this. We were savaged each time there was a delay when we put out a press release on a boat arriving.Let's look at how the Government will face getting its bills through the parliament.Today the Palmer United Party won a second Senate seat. Jacqui Lambie has won Tasmania's sixth upper house spot. She wants to boost military pensions and improve her State's freight services. While she has previously spoken in favour of the carbon tax, she now seems to be against it.We don't want a carbon tax at all. We have the Palmer United Party, we have better solutions. We want to see if there is other ways we can do this without - we don't want the taxpayer paying for it, ultimately it is the old aged pensions, the disability pensions, the underdog that is actually paying severely for this. We don't want to see them suffer any longer.Ms Lambie's party leader Clive Palmer says he could become the first fly in fly out parliamentarian.I could find somewhere nice and comfortable to stay. I don't want to stay at the police barracks with the PM. I could fly out in the morning on my jet and fly back at night. Like anyone else, I could go to and from work every day.Jonathan Green, the new Palmer United Party Senator for Tasmania has warned she will be harder to deal with than Pauline Hanson. It is shaping to be a - Senate at the very least - once the new senators take their place? I think it is looking like great fun. I wonder if it will be that awkward for Tony Abbott as we are making it out to be. Eight cross benchers, it is certainly - the Palmer United Party members look like being conservative sympathetic and some of the other small interest people look similarly disposed as well. Once we set aside their particular interests that they will be keen to bar again for, I wonder if most of the cross benchers are not going to be fairly easy votes for the conservative Government to persuade. The Palmer United Party, who knew? A wonderful result for the miracle that is Australian democracy. These people are getting elected on rather small margins, the Tasmanian candidate on 10% of the primary vote. It is refreshing to see ordinary folk in our parliament.Refreshing Sean Kelly? You worked with Julia Gillard negotiating from a minority Government position. How do you think you would have gone negotiating with Clive Palmer candidates? Appal ingly.I think people tend to look at the Senate and pass it through rose coloured glasses. Steve Fielding wasn't that long ago.Clive is saying he will be a fly in, fly out MP, how do you think his fellow parliamentarians will regard that? I don't think Clive gives a toss what his fellow colleagues think about that. If he manages to hold in in Fairfax, there is only one group of people whose opinion he really cares about.The new Clive Palmer Senate candidate says she thinks the Liberal Party is a boys club. If you look at the cabinet you could understand why she is saying that. Did you try and convince your brother to have more women in his front bench? No, to be honest. I expressed disappointment as he did that there weren't more women in the cabinet. There are an awful lot of very talented women in the party and in parliament in the Coalition. They will be coming through there. Some are already in the outer cabinet now. Cash cash cash and Susan Lee. They are smart, they will be the front bench ministers of the future.Did they will be the front many of the women in the party express their anger to you express their anger to about these decisions? No, we
don't don't have quotas in the Liberal Party. Those women are smart and capable and they will find their place on the front bench.If there is a meritocracy why isn't Charmaine Stone on the front bench, why not Kelly O'Dwyer? Kelly hasn't been in the cabinet, I guess the feeling is she needs to get some experience. I think Kelly is fantastic.Charmaine Stone arguably has a better record than some of the ministers that have been retained. It is hard to take the Tony Abbott line "I wish there is something I could have done". There is plenty he could have done. He could have employed some of the talented women that he has in his party now.He has made the decision he has the right front bench. They are an experienced and solid team. That is his decision. As the leader he is entitled to make that.Do you want me to settle that score with Peter Costello? You might not have tried to influence him on that issue but there is one issue that you have had strong words with him on and that is gay marriage. You say he was conflicted when he voted against marriage equality last year -That is what he said.Do you think we might see him supporting gay marriage during his term in Government? To be honest, as much as I would like to see it, I don't think it is likely, him personally. It is very unlikely I think. We have discussed this obviously at length. We have discussed it around the family lunch table, with his is between a man and with his daughters, it is his
personal position is between a man and woman. I can't see is between a can't see him changing his mind on that.What do you mean then that he was conflicted with the vote last year? He has seen me in my relationship with Virginia, we have been together for several years now. He sees that we have a loving normal relationship and we both have children who live with us and we have in every sense, I guess, a marriage and I guess he is aware of that. He respects us both. He loves me, I am his sister and he knows that it is a very important thing for me and for many people in the community to have marriage equality. He knows it is an important issue.He felt conflicted because he felt he was voting against you? I guess so. I don't want to put words in his mouth and I can't know exactly what is in his heart but I imagine he knows it is important to me and to other people. Of course one would do that with regret I guess.Many members of our audience would find your personal story inspiring. I hope you will indulge me by going a little personal here. A marriage break down is traumatic in any circumstances. Your marriage was breaking down and then you had to come out to your brother who at the time was a very prominent politician. Was he the Coalition leader at that point? Yes.Also, one of Australia's most prominent speakers against gay marriage. What was going through your head when you were trying to work out how to tell him what you were doing? It is like telling any family member - something they are not expecting to hear. I was married for 20 years. I knew what was going on inside my head but nobody else did. It was a difficult thing to do but I was always confident as it turned out to be that Tony would be respectful and supportive about the decisions, knew I had to the very difficult decisions he knew I had react when you first told react when you first told him? It was - well... I guess it was - you could have knocked me over with a feather-type reaction. As I say, I had been married in a happy ostensibly, to the outward world happy marriage and what I was telling him about myself that I had learned about myself over a period of some time was that was a blind side to members of my family.He has since come out and publicly called your decision courageous. That must mean a lot to you? I think anyone who has come out and in very public circumstances the way I had to, it does - I guess it feels like you have to be brave to do that. You don't think that at the time because you get swept up in events. I don't think that it was brave, it was just something I had to do. I guess I look back on it now and I think how did I go through that? I think Virginia does as well. It was something I had to do, I had to come out and I had to very, very unfortunately end my marriage because of what I learned about myself. Anyone who has gone through knows it is a very difficult
thing to do and it does take a bit of thing to do and it does bit of courage.Thanks for sharing that with us. Let's move to Labor's leadership contest. The rivals faced off in their first debate last night. It wasn't too much disagreement between Bill Shorten and Anthony Albanese, they both praised the previous Government and urged party unity and they even wore matching red ties for the event. Mr Shorten floated a sovereign wealth fund to pay for aged care and tried to grab the high moral ground on refugees. Today after a media report raised the issue he admitted to planting this question from an audience member.PM Gillard said she would be the education PM, Tony Abbott wants to be the infrastructure PM, what kind of PM would each of you be? I would like to be known as the PM for the powerless for the disempowered for people who don't have a voice in our society.You have had experience briefing leaders on these sorts of debates Sean, do you think Bill Shorten would have been embarrassed having to admit he planted that question? Of course he would have been. It was a mistake but it went a big mistake and I don't think it will have an impact on the leadership contest.Christine Forster do you think there would have been planted questions from both sides? I hope not. I like to think the of integrity
politicians are men and women of integrity and honesty. I would hope not, that that didn't occur. Obviously debates are hard things. They are difficult for people to go through. We saw a bit of that in the last election campaign. It is important that our political leaders are straight with us and are honest and don't fix the game, kind of thing. I hope there wasn't.Jonathan what do you think, will it damage Bill Shorten's leadership chances? I want to be The Queen of peoples' hearts.Warm and fuzzy.Do you Jonathan, thank you for that.It plays unfortunately into peoples' perceptions of Shorten that he is the behind the scenes guy. A couple of prime ministerial scalps on his belt is something he will be keen to leave behind him. Any perception that he is trying to rig the game or play the numbers or be old school, I think it is damaging. That said, this is a really healthy process. These three debates are Liberal Party is trying to are tremendous. As much as paint this Liberal Party is trying paint this as indecisiveness and so on, it paint this as and so on, it is an interesting Labor Party to
and inclusive thing for the and inclusive thing Labor Party to do. Don't forget when Ed Miliband ran in the Labor Party to do. Don't when Ed Miliband ran in the UK,
that process took five months. I think that parties can I think that parties can afford that. It is important for the members of parties to feel they have some sort of influence. They have to get down to it as well once whoever is elected as leader and engage in serious reform, some fairly big problems that the Labor Party has. This is an encouraging process as a first step.While the Labor Party decides on its new leader, one of its recent PMs has signed a book deal. Julia Gillard is writing her memoirs and insists she will be penning the book without the help of a ghost writer.I want to write a book so in my own words, in my own way, I can reflect on my period in politics. When you're PM, a lot of what you say is mediated through others, that is understandable but this will be my words direct. I wanted to commit it to paper whilst both emotionally and intellectually it was still fresh for me.Sean, do you expect there will be any explosive revelations in this memoir? I am sure there will be some. There things only Julia Gillard knows, There knows, things that only Julia Gillard could explain, what happened on the last night of her leadership, what happened on the last night of Kevin Rudd's leadership, what was going through her mind on the great of the great misogyny speech? That is not what I think will make this an interesting read. Most politicians' memoirs end up being blow by blow recounts of things that to a very large extent we all know.I think the great thing about Julia the long
Gillard, and you saw this in the long article she published in 'The Guardian' a couple of weeks ago, she is self reflect ive. I suspect what will be interesting is her analysis about what the party and the Government did wrong and what she did wrong and where all of those organisations can go from here.That was a brave admission she made about her election night, sitting there alone? Yes, absolutely. It was brave. She felt it was right for her.You have worked for both Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd, how do you think Mr Rudd might be anticipating this book? I don't think he will be looking forward to it immensely. I suspect that what we will see in one form or another - not necessarily in the next 12 months but over the course of the next couple of decades, is a similar legacy war as the one we have seen play out between Hawke and Keating over the last few years. There was a tremendous amount of bitterness between those two men and I don't think I am hitting headlines by saying that there was bitterness between Rudd and Gillard. They will the first shots fired.Christine Forster, she is on the other side of politics of course but do you have sympathy with Julia Gillard as a female politician? Yes, absolutely. She has achieved an enormous amount. I have nothing but respect for Julia Gillard and what she achieved. I hope Sean is write, the book is an analysis from her point of view. That would be rev latery for all of Australia, not just Australian women. I am looking forward to it. It will probably make a great Christmas present for 2015 I imagine.A lot of Liberal MPs will probably relish the notion that there will be more discussion of this period of Labor Party division? I am sure Bill Shorten will be looking forward to it as well.Jonathan, Kevin Rudd is out of the big chair as well. Do you think it is likely we could see him writing his memoirs and we could have duelling memoirs? The readers of Australia could there is Gillard with the of Australia could be grateful there is Gillard with the book deal but there is Gillard with the deal but I am sure Kevin deal but I am sure Kevin will eventually pop out vol.1 of eventually pop out vol.1 of his eventually pop out vol.1 eventual 10-part memoir eventual will go on to be will go on to be a sensation in Australian publishing. The Gillard one - she's conducted herself with such impeccable dignity through the campaign and subsequently, I think she will find a way of writing a memoir which is revelatory and still respectful of her party. I don't think she will do something in such a way that will create disharmony and tear the thing about. I think she will be astute enough to do something which is still worth reading, even in those sort of constraints. It will be a interesting book.One thing I was going to ask you again Christine is the misogyny speech, no doubt that will come up the situation there. What was your reaction to that speech? Did you watch it live? No. To be absolutely honest with you, I have never watched it fully through. I find it distressing actually. For me as was
a family member of the man who was the subject of this quite personal attack, it feels personal. He is my brother, I lover him. I know he is not a misogynist and to watch this - from a woman who I did respect and I thought it was very unfair and I won't watch it and it does - it is hurtful. We all things
know if we hear people saying things that we know aren't true about our family members, those things can be very emotional. I haven't watched it all and I probably never will.Sean, you were there at that time? Yes.What is your understanding of Julia Gillard's state Was she gunning an attack on Tony Gillard's state of mind then?
Was Tony Abbott really or was she feeling under attack herself? Tony Abbott really or No, she feeling under No, she was absolutely furious. You have to remember she had gone through 18 months or two years of she had gone through 18 or two years of attacks, many based on her gender. There was language being used by the Opposition and by the Opposition Leader at that time that I think was clearly playing upon the fact she was a woman. She was furious about that but held her tongue and for Tony Abbott at that time to use the parliament to accuse her of something bordering on misogyny just tore her apart, it was the final straw and she was genuinely furious.It will be an interesting book.Now to politics in the sporting arena. One of Sydney's leading school basketball competitions has been thrown into disarray with several of the city's high schools refusing to play elite private school Scots College. The schools have accused Scots of handing out sports scholarships against the rules of the competition. The Scots head master insists that the other school principals have got it wrong. Former All Blacks captain David Kirk says there is an arms race going on between some of the schools to recruit the best talent. Sean, you're a former Knox student I understand, are you surprised by this blow-up in the GPS sporting code? Thanks, there goes by Labor Party pre-selection. It seems a storm in a tea cup to me. Schools have offered grounds
scholarships on academic grounds for a long time. Whether they are means-tested or not, it is one way of privileging an ability above parents' ability to pay, that is a good thing. I don't understand why they shouldn't be extended to sports as well.The Scots head master is denying they are being extended to students who show sporting promise. Do you think it is credible that Scots isn't going around with talent scouts? I have no knowledge of the facts. Where there is this level of smoke, there is often at least a small spark to be found. I suspect the exact facts will come out soon.Christine Forster, you have four children and have no doubt spent many a Saturday morning or afternoon on the sidelines of many sporting arenas or sports fields. Does this boycott against one school bother you? It is a terrible shame. School sports is one of the great joys of parental life actually. We have all seen how many parents unfortunately live through their kids playing school sport. It is an unfortunate too
fact of life. This takes that too far I think. It is at the end of the day, school sport. Do we need to be putting semi professional - if that is what has occurred - putting kids that are virtually unbeatable into school sports teams? It is just not that important.It is interesting that David Kirk is making that complaint, he is calling it an arms race. That sounds like it is extreme? sounds like it is getting
extreme? My brother Tony to a GPS school and I know how rowing
competitive those schools are, rowing and rugby. It was competitive and the parents got involved and the whole school was involved. It was of getting involved -These are multimillion dollar businesses and their sporting success is a fundamental part of their public relations pitch.Absolutely, no doubt about that. It is a shame that it has gone this far.That is right Jonathan, but on the other hand, do you think it is a problem if the schools - to be offering talented basketball or rugby players scholarships? They do it with music? Sure. We have seen this in the American system. To great extent it happens in the Melbourne public schools as well. It is a distortion I think, the schools that think that is important and have the resources to throw at it they might benefit. When Cyril Rioli runs out for Hawthorn on Saturday in the Grand Final, he will look back to his years at scotch College in Melbourne where he was a student through high school and was an adornment to the first 18 it needs to be said. It happens for all sorts of reasons.Do you think there is a danger that it could ruin the spirit of school sport? Yes, I think that is a possibility. It should be really earnest amateur endeavour. If you have semi pros running around - Kirk is right, it becomes an arms race because you have to respond in kind. That would be an unfortunate perversion of it.Are you going to tell us whether you went to private or public school? A combination of the two.Good answer.We know you're on a sporting scholarship Sean, it is Thanks
OK.That is all for The Drum. Thanks to the panel - Sean Kelly, Christine Forster and Jonathan Green. You can check us out online at abc.net.au/the drum. Join us again same time tomorrow night. See you then. Captions by CSI Australia

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