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(generated from captions) Hi, I'm Steve Cannane. Coming up or not 'The Drum', Bill Shorten nominating for the Labor leadership, but will anyone else? Sophie Mirabella rules herself out of Tony Abbott's minute stroi and Clive Palmer's role in Fairfax are are
looking shaky as postal votes are counted.Unemployment has risen to its highest level in four years. It's now at 5.8% which is in line with forecasts. which is in line with economic lost in August, both full forecasts. 10,800 jobs were lost in August, both full and part-time.An asylum boat with 74 passengers has been stopped boat with
part-time.An asylum seeker been stopped by a navy ship boat with 74 passengers has north of Christmas Island. The vote was seen by a surveillance plane yesterday. The passengers have been taken to Christmas Island for health and security checks.The seven Australians attacked while trekking in Papua New Guinea have arrived home. The men landed at Cairns Airport home. The men landed at Airport this morning. They were ambushed while hiking on Tuesday by a group wielding spears and machetes. Two Porters were hacked to death and two hikers were injured. Indonesian Government has approved a man to buy up large tracts of Australian cattle country. Town a million hectares of grazing land could be bought for Indonesia to breed its own cattle. Cattle producers say it could be a lifeline for those trying to leave the industry which has been in turmoil since the live cattle ban in 2011. The Northern Territory has had a long history of foreign investment, both by private. Foreign concerns and government-backed companies.The plan would be in addition to Indonesia's domestic breeding program. Two Sydney men have been charged over their involvement in a major fraud syndicate. They were arrested after an 8-month investigation by federal and State police. Police allege the pair manufactured false documents, including credit and Medicare cards.And that is the latest news. Now back to 'The Drum' with Steve Cannane.

This Program is Captioned hello. Welcome to 'The Drum', I'm Steve Cana.Sophie Mirabella counts herself out of the first Abbott Cabinet and Clive Palmer's lead shrinks in Fairfax. Our panel tonight - host of 'Observer Effect', Ellen Director of Per Capita, David Hetherington, and associate editor of 'Spectator Australia', Rowan dean.And you can join in on Twitter using the hashtag "thedrum".Bill Shorten today became the first candidate to nominate for the Labor leadership ahead of tomorrow's Caucus meeting in Canberra. The tomorrow's Caucus Canberra. The former Education Minister says the party is in a position to win the next election and should not allow the Coalition to tear down the a come Michments of both the Rudd and Gillard governments. While announcing his tilt for the position of ALP leader, Mr Shorten committed himself to Labor's carbon pricing policy, a policy the incoming Abbott Government wants to repeal.I know that Labor fundamentally believes in putting a price on carbon pollution. I do not believe it is good politics or indeed a good vision for Australia to defer to the next generation dealing with the problems of this generation, and Labor has a mandate for its views on carbon pricing pollution.It's still not known whether Bill Shorten will have a challenger. Former Deputy PM Anthony Albanese is said to be considering his position. If someone else does nominate, the position will be decided in a ballot involving MPs and grassroots Labor members.So, if Anthony nominates, he will be an excellent outstanding candidate. If he was successful, I would certainly work with him and accept the verdict of the members, but I also say that I believe I bring energy, I believe I bring optimism. I'm hungry for victory.Bun one former frontbencher can't imagine a worsen nahhio for the party than a long, drawn-out ballot.These rules put in place will make us an absolute laughing stock. They were supposedly a response to the instability problem the party was facing, but they were rules that have left us helpless. We have no leader, no frontbencher much, no shadow spokespersons are able to lead the debate for us, and this will descend into complete and utter farce.David, before we get onto those comments, what did you think of Bill Shorten's pitch?Look, I think it's a pitch that's very characteristic of Bill Shorten, so energy and optimism absolutely, tick, tick. I think the strengths of the pitch are Shorten's policy track record, well-known for championing and carrying through the national disability insurance scheme. He is also pretty good at brokers relationships outside the Labor Party, amongst different stakeholder groups.He has a strong connection with businessesWith unions and business.I think the weaknesses of the pitch that there is a public perception he has been a kingmaker and there will be questions in the electorate about a question about whether he is electorate about that, and also a reconciliation a question about whether he a reconciliation candidate,
whether he has the support within the party to undergo the kind of cultural and behavioural reform that's probably needed.Personally I hope very much that Labor has a ballot. I think it's important that the party does have one, and I think it's good of Shorten to say he will run in a ballot whereas I think he said a few days ago he said, "I won't run if Albanese does." I think a ballot is the best outcome for the party whatever the result.What about Conroy's comments s that likely to make the party be a laughing stock?No, I think those comments are entirely misguided. Labor's stock is unlikely to get lower than it is this week, so for the party to take a month to under go an internal democratic process, something he hasn't done much of in recent years and to choose its leader is not going to leave the part a laughing stock in the face of the public. There aren't major legislative battles that will be lost in the next week. I think it is a rear guard action to protect a set of interests and structures that mean certain interest groups in the party can manage power and patronage to their ends, and I think it is a defensive stance in that regard.Ellen, what did you think of Stephen Conroy's comments there? I don't need to continue. I entirely agree with that. It's fascinating, isn't it? We election - I was talking on the program last week to Rebecca Huntley who has the whole body whatever it is of research and she said very clearly and wow have to agree, Australians have had enough, didn't the postal votes tell you that we've had enough. Lots of people couldn't even wait for polling day. Footy season, end of year celebrations, summer holidays, if it takes Labor until January 27 to work out who might be the leader, I don't think anything would be lost in that, but I think it's also there was a piece in 'Crikey' today which was very interesting which basically pointed to why is it, and maybe the media is to blame, that unless you can't have any discussion of a complicated issue or important public policy dwreed or nation-building idea, or leadership, unless you come to a conclusion immediately or there is disunity, or as we saw with Labor, you turn it up to boiling point immediately and get it over with. I don't think anybody in the public actually thinks that's necessary, but that's who they are playing to. I don't quite understand.Rowan, any downside to opening it up to a ballot?I totally a grow with Stephen Conroy. This whole thing is a complete farce, but he seems to have forgotten the worse, most catastrophic defeat for Labor just occurred. The people of Australia want nothing to do with Labor in its current form.They hated Gillard Isn't that the reason for change. Exactly my point.Kevin Rudd, now Bill Shorten who was instrumental in appointing and destroying both of them. In other words, the epitome of everything loathe about Labor is Bill Shorten. There is not a hope in hell he will every be voted bit the Australian people. This idea of some kind of comeback in 2016 from where they are now is a joke. They need a wholesale cleanout, need to start again.I don't think internal democracy would help?That's a great idea. They need to, but let's get rid of the whole lot of them putting their hands up at the moment. They need brand new people and fast.Let's cross to Labor senator Doug Cameron who joins us from Canberra. Thanks very much for coming on.No worries, nice to be here.Now that Bill Shorten has put his hand up, do you expect Anthony Albanese will also nominate for the leadership?Honestly I don't know.Anthony has got to make his mind up on that know.Anthony has got to make his mind up on that issue, it
is a personal choice he has to make and he will make that choice one way or the choice one way or the other.A Caucus meeting tomorrow - just to clarify the rules under the new regime, is it correct the nominations open tomorrow at that Caucus meeting and then 7 days if somebody wants to nominate after that?Yes, the nominations will open tomorrow and anyone who seeks to actually challenge has to have 20% of the Caucus support in them.Wow like to see a contest where all party members do get a vote as well as the Caucus members?Look, my experience goes back to 2010 when I was in the UK and I was there for the challenge for the Labour leadership in the UK. It was quite fascinating, it was invigorating, it was a discussion about policy, about values, about the future, and it would be good to see a policy debate such as that from potential leaders in the Labor Party, arguing the key issues for the Australian electorate.If there is not another challenger and Bill well,
Shorten is the only candidate, well, that's fine as well. Bill is well qualified. He is a good Parliamentan, he is certainly put forward some great proposals during his career in Parliament, and he would be an eminent and well regarded leader.What do you think of Stephen Conroy's comments? We heard a bit of them before where he said it would make Labor a laughing stock, that Labor could have no leader for a month, no frontbencher much for that period of time?I laughing stock, if that's what Stephen laughing stock, Stephen is saying. I get well with Stephen personally, but I'm well with but I'm always in a different position or almost always in but I'm always in position or almost always in a
different position from position or different position from Stephen
on political issues, and certainly this one.I think certainly this one.I it's absolutely essential that the party has a good look at its processes and the party has a its processes and I think democratic processes are the way forward.I think the party does need reform in a whole range of areas, and that's a debate that no individual is going to push aside. This debate will continue.Is there any chance with Kevin Rudd now gone from the leadership position that there could be a move within Caucus to overthrow those new rules and have a vote within Caucus about that?Look, I don't think so. Far be it for me to pre-empt what Caucus does, but Caucus before the last election adopted the process of democratic participation from the rank and file membership. Remember, these were the people who were out knocking on doors, supporting Labor candidates, they were the people out at railway stations, handing leaflets out. They, the rank and file were the people who were out all day during the ballot, getting support for Labor.They need some respect, they need some recognition and they need a reason to be in the Labor Party other than to be handing leaflets and how-to-vote cards out.But what if they then elect a leader who the Caucus doesn't respect or the Caucus doesn't want to work with, is that going to pose problems for the Labor Party?Well, I don't think that's a probability. What you have to understand is that there is a new game in town and that game is of the Labor Party have a say, and what's wrong with that?And you can't have a position any longer where the elected Parliamentans simply see that they've got all the knowledge, they've got all the wisdom. Well, I think the rank-and-file membership should have a say, in a contested ballot. If there is no contest, then that's the end of it.By opening the leadership up to a party debate t would open up the leadership contest to a contest like the Labor Party has never seen when it comes to their leadership. What does it say about the internal democracy of the Labor suddenly
Party that there is not suddenly four, five, six candidates rushing to then compete for the leadership?Ooh, have to leadership?Ooh, well, I would have to give some deep thought to that. At the moment, we to don't know how many to that. At the moment, don't know how there will be. We don't know if
there would be a woman

there candidate. We don't know if Albo candidate. We Albo will put his hand up. That will be determined tomorrow, and let's wait and see what happens there.So, I can't answer your question because it answer your question because pre-empts something I don't know.But there is a broader question mark, isn't there, about competition within the Labor Party? If you look when it comes to the House of Reps, when it comes to preselections, very few go to rank-and-file ballots. If you look at Senate positions like yourself, they are appointed by the party, they're not preselected by members in the community and then when it comes to leadership ballots, we're not seeing a whole rush of people competing for the leadership?Well, you don't know whether there will be a rush of people or not.True, that is an assumption.But let me go to the broader position to people like myself putting themselves forward. I would be perfectly happy if the rules of the party were that I was selected by a vote of the membership, I would have no problem with that, I would welcome that. In fact, I have argued that over a number of years, that that should be the position that is adopted. The more democracy, the more people involved in preselections, the broader the base of the party, the better it is for the party.Rowan, you have a question Hi, Doug, how are you?Hi, Rowan. Good to chat to you. Looking from the outside, the common criticism of Labor is that they must break this link with the factions, must break with the unions, what do you
say about that?Look, there are always going to be factions, the factions can operate in a very constructive way as they did under the Hawke-Keating Government, where different points of view are debated within the factions and then taken to the Caucus and debated. I think a lot of that has gone. There is a role of like-minded people to come... And the unions?I'm absolutely and fundamentally of the view that the trade union movement, are root and branch part of the Labor Movement. The party can't exist effectively without the unions and the unions are important in that context, so I take the view that we need to move to a position where there is more democracy within the unions, that is not left to a national secretary as I was, suddenly determining who should be in and who shouldn't be in.There has to be a more democratic process within the unions and the membership of the unions should have a say in issues such as the leadership join
of the Labor Party. They should join - the unions should be encouraging their members to join the Labor Party and engage.David? Doug, you talk about internal democratic processes within the party and you mentioned that you would be happy for, for example, Senate candidates to be elected by party members rather than appointed by head office.Yes. But, the rules that govern that process are very tightly controlled by a very small number of people who would have to give up significant amounts of power to allow those rules to be changed. Other than ultraism of the kind that you're putting forward permly, how do party members or other forces bring pressure to bear to move those kind of locks on the processes of the party?Well, I think there is going to be a tension between ultraism and attention between getting a party to win an election in the future. I think some of the people with hard heads, across all the factions a cross the union movement, we need to get to a position where we are looking to change the party to be contestable, to be a party that people want to vote for, a party of policy debate and not individually kniving each other. That's just crazy, and when we had the divisions in the party, I said we would pay a heavy price and we've paid that heavy price at the ballot box last week.Doug Cameron, we'll leave it there but thanks very much for coming on 'The Drum' tonightThank you.Doug Cameron who will be
very you.Doug Cameron very busy tomorrow in that
Labor Caucus you.Doug Cameron who will be
very Labor Caucus meeting and we will Labor will await with interest what comes out of that. comes out of that. Bill Shorten said also today in his press conference, he was sticking to a carbon price. Is that the right move for Labor, right move for Rowan?No, it's laughable. Seriously, Labor has not been listening, although Doug did his best to answer my question, he didn't answer the question, which is those outside the Labor Party are absolutely clear they must break this nexus with the unions, otherwise it's over for Labor. Same as the carbon tax, Australia has spoken. It's very clear. Huge mistake. They're just replaying the same old tune, Gillard, Rudd, Shorten, we are going around and round in circles. Did will be a disaster.David? Not at all. The members in both the House and Senate are entitled to vote in favour of retaining a carbon price. Tony Abbott, in 2007/8 when the Conservatives had lost after the Rudd prime ministership win, tried to argue at that point that he was legitimate in moving away from the position that John Howard had taken in 2007 election. The strange thing is that you get some Labor frontbenchers, Labor MPs coming out now and saying, "We should move away." Surely that's a debate to have after a leader is in place?I would hope Nick Champion is putting up his hand for the leadership.Who?And Richard Marles. It's important that people like that have these debates of the internal result will be that Labor remains in favour of keeping will be that Labor remains favour of keeping a carbon favour priceRemaining unelectable. And we'll see over a cycle or two what the Australian think.Ellen?Bill Shorten started his press conference saying that he believed that global warming is dangerous and carbon pricing is dangerous, it's politically dangerous. It just doesn't go away. What is a mandate? What is a mandate? If you go to the ballot box and you vote Liberal in the House and you vote Green in the Senate, what have you instructed your elected representatives to do? What mandate have you given them? I think the idea that somehow, whether it's Labor or Liberal that wins the result, wins the majority in the House of Representatives that there ought to be no review is acid yachtic as saying that Obama should never go to the Congress. We have checks and balances for a reason. That's why he should go to Congress over the Syria and that's why the Senate has acted independently within their mandate.Rowan, pro market mechanism to deal with climate change, so the whole mandate theory is not black and white?Well, the mandate theory is black and white when the issue is so clear-account as this issue has been. The carbon tax and the boats was the mantra of Tony Abbott for four years, the last three years v, very, very clear.But not everybody voted Forbe the...Yes, Labor were basically decimated in this election. Let's not forget that. People have walk add way from the carbon price, not because as Bill Shorten believes, that it's to do with belief in climate change. People have walk add way from the carbon tax because it doesn't work and it shoves up prices. That's why they don't want it. It's nothing to do with climate change Then why is the Coalition in 2007/8/9 carbon
entitled to vote against a carbon price in the Senate when the only two issues that the 2007 election were fought on were climate change and WorkChoices? What's changed?You've just answered your own question. The Coalition turned around and said, "OK, you guys have a mandate. Woiss is gone. Get rid of it." You've just answered your own question. WorkChoices was the big issue at that campaign. As was carbon price rments no, it wasn't. Come on, you've answered your own question.The Coalition said, "OK, woiss is gone" they've never looked back.Because they came to the view it was a bad electorate. That was policyThey listened to the electorate. That was the
mandate.Tony Abbott electorate. That was mandate.Tony Abbott said he
was one of electorate. That was the
mandate.Tony was one of two voices in Cabinet who did not think it was a good policy and the view that the Liberal Party was that it was not a good policy. I would agree would agree with you that it would be ultimately hypocritical for the Labor Party to block Tony Abbott in the Senate if they had come to the view that carbon pricing was a bad idea and they were blocking it merely to be mischievous, but...Come on, they kept changing positions on it. They've been consistently in favour of carbon pricing. The mechanism is neither here nor thereOf course. Shoe they basis yet
won the 2007 election on that basis yet the Conservatives felt entitled to oppose that in the Senate. No difference between that position and todayWe will move onAs a,It will keep them out of power for a long time.Sophie Mirabella has ruled herself out of a frontbench position as it becomes increasingly obvious that she will lose the seat of Indi. She is trailing Kathy McGowan by is 100 votes. Both women agree it could take weeks to be finalised.You find 100 here and then lose it somewhere else.I think it would be too early to call a definite end to the process.Sophie Mirabella says her decision to rule herself out is in the interests of the

Tony Abbott has praised Ms Mirabella as a trusted colleague and respected member of his Shadow Cabinet.Yes, we don't know the outcome of her particular election, so it is a generous move on the part of her to do that and it makes sense.David, you think right choice I think she has no choice. She will not win. She is in some personal debt to Tony Abbott throughout her career, and it's course tee youse to say, "Don't hold it up on my behalf." Yes, the right move.Ellen, what about the potential repercussions of this, Sophie Mirabella was one of only two women in the Shadow Cabinet. That may change, about you will there be pressure on Tony Abbott to find women to promote?Well, I think Bronwyn Bishop is keen to join the Cabinet, and I think there are some other member whose are in their late 60s, and Fiona Scott not only has sex appeal, she has an MBA, she will be available. Senator Paine she has hey law degree, lots of experience, lots of good women to choose from and if he wants to choose on merit, there are lots of reasons to choose those women I've mentioned.Rowan? Ms Paine was terrific, Bronwyn Bishop is ter rivelg. They are spoilt for choice on the Coalition side, they do have great talent there. Of course n Labor there is the whole Emily's list and the rest that you have to promote X number of women, but I'm glad in the Liberals it's done on merit, as it should be.A shame there has only been two women in the Shadow Cabinet, you have to get your states right, factions right - the Liberal Party has factions, too - and you've got to get the genders right. Attorney-General, Health Minister, Education Minister in the Labor Party. Tony Abbott - it won't look good if he goes back to the electorate and says, "I've only got two women in this Cabinet." The names you just mentioned were a disaster.One person who had a tough campaign was Jaymes Diaz the Liberal Party candidate for the seat of Greenway. He went into hiding after John Hill, the Channel terrorised him about his the Channel Ten reporter terrorised six-point plan or the Coalition's six-point plan Coalition's 6-point plan about stopping Coalition's 6-point plan stopping the boats but Diaz stopping the boats but Jaymes television last night. Diaz made an appearance television last night. Let's
have a television last night. have a look.Is the best way to have a look.Is the best describe your campaign for Greenway (a) successful or (b) room for improvement? (LAUGHTER) Got anything to say Happy you asked me that question...The Liberal Party at play again. I know my 6-point plan. I know the points.Rowan, that was quite a comeback by Jaymes Diaz. Should he have done that a few weeks ago?It wasIt was fantastic. Yes, I told him he should have. At built to laugh at your sf. He made a goose of himself. If you laugh at yourself, people will always forgive you for that. He did that superbly, Gadd on him for doing that. Good on him for carrying that off so well. I hope he carries on doing it. He will get lots of laughs on that.Should the Liberal Party not have let him out, should they have put him into witness protection?I would have liked to have seen him get out earlier and do exactly that.David? I think he should be parachuted into the next Senate spot that comes up. I think we all understand that the problem was the selection of candidate. You need to have a candidate who is eloquent a cross the policy issues, who is comfortable with the media and comfortable with the public and it transpire s that this candidate wasn't. There was an internal factional fight in the Liberal Party in NSW about that seat and Jaymes Diaz got up wasn't up to the game.Ellen, a good come back on 'The Hamster Decides'?Yes, but wouldn't it have been good to have given the people of Greenway a choice between a really great Labor candidate and a really great Liberal candidate? You've got to wonder about the swing to Labor in that electorate, whether that wasn't some despair at the options they were given. ThiefWe've spent a lot of time talking about how Labor chooses the best people for its team and Ross Cameron has come out publicly and said there is a lot of disquiet in the leadership in NSW about how those candidates were chosen and Tony Abbott's backbench much could have been that much bigger had the right people been chosen.But when you have so few members of political parties, it narrows the pool.There was a great pool in Greenway.Yes, but makes it easy to stack seats if it's not that many people in the party? Yes, slightly different what Labor has been doing through Government has been parachuting in hand-picked candidates, some celebrity candidates, some kind of factional candidates. You are trying to promote through rank-and-file members and you're right t does come down to the strength of the braen much on the ground, but still you would think that internal party processes would be making sure they have enough local support and they have the skills to run a campaign.Will Clive Palmer make it to Parliament? The head of the Palmer United Party is still ahead in the seat of Fairfax, but the counting of postalal votes has seen his lead narrow today. Mr Palmer is just over a thousand vote as head of LNP Ted O'Brien, but 63% of the postal votes are going in Mr O'Brien's faifr. Political reporter Melissa Clarke joins us. How safe is Clive Palmer's position?It's not very safe at vote
all. He only has a lead of 1050 vote as head of Ted O'Brien, the LNP candidate who he is battling against, and they've got around 8,000 postal votes to count. They've counted about one-eighth of that and the majority is going to td O'Brien, not to Clive Palmer, so it's quite possible that the LNP could end up ahead once the votes have been counted and tallied up, so one we still won't know for a couple of days yet.And the voters who were voting with the postal votes may not be those who copped the full advertising blitz of Clive Palmer in the last weeks?Lucksy them!It's traditional ly that Liberal cop the majority of the postal necessarily count on the proportion votes, but you wouldn't proportion that we've seen of the postal votes proportion that we've seen the postal 63% I think it is, going to the postal votes so far, around 63% I think it is, going to the
LNP. I don't think you can necessarily count on that being the case for the remaining couple of thousand.Look, when you have a margin that is you have a margin that is this close, you can expect there to be a recount audit by the AEC, if not legal challenges as well, when you're talking about the closeness as we are in Fairfax.I would say a legal challenge is a huge chance given it involves Clive Palmer?He has the time and resources to do one and it wouldn't be the first. We've seen that in past elections as well when it comes to these narrow votes. I certainly don't envy the other candidates, even knowing when the count is finalised, it's not likely to be the end of the issue.And it looks like the Coalition's position is improving when you look at the counting of the last few days?A couple of seats that really seriously we're not sure how they will end up. One seat in Victoria, the seat of McEwen where the Liberal Party could well take a seat off the LNP. Donna Petrovic challenging Rob Mitchell, the sitting MP. The you might remember the seat of McEwen in the past has literally come down to just a couple of votes, so this is a serial offender in terms of close margins. Only about 300 or so votes in that one. Another one just quickly, Parramatta, Julie Owens defying the trend in Western Sydney and may well hang onto it, but again the margin just around 300 votes or so. What we're seeing the Liberal Party is ahead in Eden-Monaro, the bellwether seat T may remain the bellwether seat, but with Mike Kelly's personal popularity, that one is not done and dusted is Capricornia in Queensland, so we're is Capricornia in so we're still not sure.Thanks, Mel. Australia's unemployment rate has climbed to its sure.Thanks, Mel. Australia's
unemployment rate to its highest level in 4 unemployment rate has climbed to its highest level in 4 years according to the figures to its highest level in according to the figures out
today. The to its highest level in 4 years
according to today. The figures showed the jobless rate edged up 0.1 of jobless rate edged a%. The RBA believes the situation won't improve any time soon with unemployment tipped to keep rising, despite a surge in business and consumer confidence just before the election. A survey earlier this week showed business confidence soar to a two-year high. David, is this proof that go
business confidence surges can go down to Coalition victories? People in businesslike having Coalition governments?Well, I don't think there is any doubt that people like having Coalition governments but you can't say it is just one reason. That has played into it, so a temporary effect. The bigger effects are what's China looks
happening in the world economy. China looks to have bottomed out. Europe growth strengthening for the first time in a long time. The unemployment numbers aren't great, total employment down since 2009, but unemployment is what economists call a lagging indicator, so it takes a while for the improved conditions to flow through to the employment numbers. I think you will see the interest rates next up rather than down and employment will bounce back.Rowan, what about the claims that the stock market had gone up due to a Abbott Victoria tri-?No, no mystery there. Businesslikes a competent government and they haven't had a competent Labor Government since Bob Hawke, OK, so that is why business is excited and the confident deps is there.But on the point of the stock market, can Tony Abbott claim credit for the Dow Jones going up 1.7%No, of course not, but business confidence in Australia and anything to do with Australia absolutely, and consumer confidence. People have been waiting for this victory. Can't...But my point is the market has gone up higher in those countries than it has in Australia. But they're saying that the stock market is going up because of Tony Abbott?Sure, makes a good story. The stock market has been going up since late last year and ticked up in the last few days?But the reality is that the business community and consumer community are thrilled that there is a competent government coming in. Well, we haven't seen anything about the competence of the Abbott Government yetWell, they couldn't be less competent. Business will get a sweeter deal from the Coalition, no doubt about that. Things like tax on mining super profits is a movement...That didn't raise anything, anyway, did it, that tax There you go. Business will be happy, but many, many other fact factors that play into economic performance other than an election result two days ago.Ellen, increasing unemployment rate will be the Coalition's problem. They said they will cut tax and cut red tape and increase growth. They own this issue.?Yes, and Steve Bracks is not happy. Jobs, jobs, jobs, cut, cut, cut. What can you say?Rowan? We're back to can you say?Rowan? to can you say?Rowan? We're back
to where we were at the GFC in terms of ploun I it is a terms of ploun I it is a joke. We heard about this world as greatest Treasurer We heard about this greatest Treasurer and all the rest of it, a complete farce. rest of Here we are, unemployment rest of it, a complete Here we are, unemployment is
going Here we are, going up, major priority of

down Will they be able to do Will they be able to do that Absolutely.It's gone up by carbon
1.5%. And getting rid of the carbon tax will make a big difference.David, will getting rid of the carbon tax make a difference?No, not at all. It simply won't. The economy has grown in the last 12 months since the carbon tax was introduced. Stock market is up 20%-plus since carbon tax was introduced. So the carbon tax hasn't played into the economic performance a jot.Rowan, you want to respond Well, obviously...The figures speak for themselves. Your figures doThat's right, question the fis. Let's look at the fathers. The Coalition has won, they will get rid of the carbon tax, Labor will try to stop them but they have to do it, it is a key part in bringing down the unemployment fillings, absolutely.It will be interesting to watch, Ellen because this is the Coalition's territory they've been owning over the last few years T will be interesting to see if they can turn certainly the employment figures around?And also how they deal with the Senate in terms of their capacity to work through thatnd and whether or not I know people in business are keen to see a double dissolution, anythingReally, does anybody want to go back for another
crack at the election?Well, I think there is a view that there will be come campaigning and noises fairly quickly if herding cats in the proves to be time proves to be time consumer. -Time consuming.Knee shas ha proved a plan to buy up to 1 million hectares of Australian farmland. Under the plan, cattle would be raised in Australia before being shipped to Indonesian feedlots, a move that would help Indonesia help keep pace with domestic demand for beef. Barnaby Joyce is opposed to the plan. He has told 'The Guardian Australia' that selling off prime agricultural land is not in the national interests, but the National Farmers Federation believes there could be benefits for Australia.If it is part of a plan which also includes an increase in quotas in terms of live cattle and/or boxed meat, then there is benefit to this country as well. As I said, it is a long way between at announcement we've seen and what might actually happen on the ground.Ellen, could this lead to some tension in the Coalition, Barnaby Joyce doesn't think it is in the nays's interests?When I was a teenager, everyone was talking about the Japanese buying up the land, but somebody made the point, "They cannot take it back home with them." They made a plan they wanted to get to 90% of self-sufficiency in beef by 2014 and a couple of weeks back the ANZ Bank said, "That's too ambitious that can't work. A lot of domestic policy going on with thatThe kerfuffle with live exports from Australia didn't help and amplified that in Indonesia, if they want to buy up the land, what the gentleman was just saying, does that play into the domestic politics to allow them to increase the quotas of live beef and boxed beef from Australia in order to meet their increasing need for beef? Real
If that's so, that's probably Real Politik?Rowan, how will it play out in the partyroom There probably would be tension. I thought they've bought up the ACT and I thought, "Brilliant, what a great strategy. All the pollies can go and work - but anyway.Very good sheep country Very good sheep country. Obviously there are tensions but this is also a kind of weird reaction to the whole cancelling of the live beef industry and that whole fiasco. Clearly it's something that os on the agrarian right are very concerned about so it will become a major issue over time. Let's not have the Labor re-ass as the Labor years. Let's have sensible look at policy. We're already looking at lowering threshold for foreign investment, which is fine frlt as Ellen says, you can't pick it up and take it with you, it comes down to how much land is bought up and how frequently.DavidThe resistance to this proposal sounds very similar to me. Australia has enjoyed great prosperity by being a relatively open economy. We have some pretty clear rules around foreign investment into this country. The FIRB has got to say is it against our strategic national interest, does it create too much market power? It doesn't seem like either of those two things are in play here so I don't see a problem.But what about the argument that Joyce puts, that it's protecting prime agricultural land that should be in the hands of Australians s there a solid argument in that?NoNo, because I assume the Indonesians will pay the prime Australian owners that have land good money for t so a transfer of value there.Apparently the Indonesian minister involved today said they would be working with local companies and what they would do is end up buying the majority of shares in those local companiesOh presumably you would retain local employment and the local food chain, so this is a storm in a tea cup, I'm sorry. It was Labor who threw up the 457 thing saying, "We don't want people coming into our country to steal our jobs." If you see a massive increase of purchasing of land - which I don't think we will - we will have similar issues coming up, but they are issues that have to be looked at. It is a matter of scale. At the moment the scale is quite small, but if it
grows, it will become a big political grows, political problem for both sides.Ellen, it's interesting that Barnaby Joyce has called sides.Ellen, it's on Australians to make a big noise to the on Australians noise to the Abbott Government about this because he is part of the Abbott Government and he about this because is likely to be a minister?It works a treat, that I've been observing works a treat, observing for decades now, to present yourself as observing for decades present yourself as the present yourself outsider. Peter Beattie used outsider. Peter very effectively in Queensland, "vote for me because I'm against them." It is brilliant politics and works really, really well.David, is there a sense of who is the people buying up the land? Does it matter which country? If it was England or America, would it matter different to Indonesia or China?Well, probably. The agrarian right like England and America.And certainly state-owned...S that a different issue, to be fairSo when Huawei says, "I want to buy into big parts of the NBN," there is a big problem. The fundamental issue is are we going to turn our back on some fairly clear rules that have served us well over foreign investment?Certainly foreign investment has benefitted Australia over the last few years? Of course, it is fantastic foreign investment. The question is foreign ownership goes to issues of sovereignty. That's what gets people stirred up. Occasionally I listen to these right-wing shock jocks, you would be surprised, DavidGlad it's you and not me. So, to do with things like halal meat andWhat were they upset about? Well, this million acres would be used for breeding halal meat because it can't be frozen or something. So both on the right and on the left, you will see this as a major issue in the years ahead.That's all me have time for tonight. Thanks to our panel Ellen Fanning, David Hetherington and Rowan Dane. You can check out the website on and join Julia Baird here the same time