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(generated from captions) This Program is Captioned Live.Hi. I'm Annabel Crabb. Coming up on 'The Drum', Kevin Rudd trance formented from an economic rationalist to an economic nationalist. The leaders' forum kick-starts the new debate over foreign leadership.And the daughters of the men vying to become Australia's 29th PM.Joining me on the panel tonight - John Stanley, Helen McCabe and Joe Aston, but first here is Richard Davies with the latest newsThe doping watchdog has claimed its first rugby league scalp. The NRL has suspended Canberra Raiders winger Sandor Earl for the use and trafficking of a performance-enhancing drug. NRL chief executive Dave Smith says banned substances will not be acceptable and penalties will follow in due course.The fallout from the Essendon supplements saga is headed for the courts after negotiations broke down between the club's doctor and the AFL. Dr Bruce Reid left AFL head quarters in Melbourne after more than four hours of talks and is planning Supreme Court action. He is the only official still fighting the league's charges of bringing the game into disrepute.The US is considering a limited military strike against Syria over its reported chemical attack in Damascus. Hundreds of innocent people died when a rebel stronghold was targeted. The UN is yet to find evidence the Assad regime was responsible, but US President Barack Obama is in no doubt.Australian Federal Police have arrested five people in Australia's biggest crackdown on domestic people smugglers. They carried out raids in four states a mid concerns that people smuggling Sindh yachts - syndicate s may be developing footholds in Australia. The men from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran were arrested in Victoria, SA, WA and NSW.Brisbane police are questioning a teenaged student over the stabbing of a 15-year-old boy at a private school in the city's north-west. The Victoria testimony was stabbed in the Mitchelton
neck at Mount Maria College at Mitchelton just after midday. He is now in a stable condition in hospital. The suspect is in custody.And that is the latest news. Now it's back to 'The Drum' with Annabel Crabb. This Program is Captioned Live.

Hello. Welcome to 'The Drum'. I'm Annabel Crabb. Coming up, foreign ownership, election costings and the role of family on the campaign trail. Oh, and did you hear the election? So says one of Coalition has already won the election? So says one of the
country's election? So says one of country's biggest bookmakers
anyway. election? So says one of the
country's anyway. Our panel tonight
tonight anyway. Our panel tonight - Radio 2UE broadcaster tonight - Radio 2UE John Stanley. The 'Australian Women's Weekly' Editor-in-Chief, Helen McCabe, and Australian 'Financial Review' columnist, Joe Aston. And you can join in on Twitter using the hashtag "thedrum".Well, this is Day 25, hurtling towards the business enof this federal election campaign and the images we have of the two men who hope to be PM after next Saturday are sharpening appreciably. Both have changed considerably over the years. Here is PM Kevin Rudd in 2007 being an economic rationalist.A number of people have described me as an economic conservative. When it comes to public finance, it is a badge I wear with pride.But today after his surprise announcement last night that he wanted to review Australia's foreign investment policy, he has announced that he is an economic nationalist, something very different.We are a manufacturing nation, and I said years and years ago I never wanted to be PM of a country that didn't make things anymore, build things anymore, construct things anymore, build ships anymore, and because I'm at my heart of hearts an Australian economic nationalist who believes we need future.Tony
manufacturing for the future.Tony Abbott, meanwhile, is a man who in 2002 had this to say on paid maternity leave.Voluntary paid maternity leave, yes. Compulsory paid maternity leave, over this government's dead body, frankly, it just won't happen.Propheticly those words have now been borne out, but Mr Abbott is now nine days from an election which a generous paid his paid parental leave scheme is guest today is a man who his signature policy. Now, guest today is a man who knows
both of these leaders very well. He faced one of them over well. the despatch box until he well. He faced one of them the despatch box until he was
tipped out of the Liberal leadership by the other one. Welcome to the program, Malcolm Turnbull.Great to be with you.Well, it is a pleasure to have you here. I wanted to start off just by getting your quick impressions of this turn that Mr Rudd took last night, offering some sort of a review of Australia's foreign investment scheme?Well, it's just desperation, isn't it? Garden Island
It's right up there with moving Garden Island to the shores of his own electorate in Griffith, quite why it will prop him up in Brisbane to have a huge naval base.Do you take that personally. Garden Island is yours, isn't it, it's in your electorate?Well, it's not mine, but is in my electorate, but as Barry O'Farrell pointed out, it's - Barry O'Farrell basically demonstrated that he has fully absorbed the Bill Heffernan school of press conference piracy when he gatecrashed Kevin Rudd's press conference and gave him a very good dressing-down for not even raising with the NSW Government the idea of dramatically changing the Federal Government's policy on Garden Island. Remember, they had published a white paper in May and after great study and analysis and thought, deep thought, no doubt, they had concluded that it didn't make sense to move the Navy from Garden Island, but of course Kevin is worried about his numbers in Brisbane and so he has pulled that one out of the hat - that rabbit out of the hat, and then last night he thought he could pull another populist rabbit out of the hat and express a sudden newfound concern for foreigners buying Australian farmland.It's quite usual for the Coalition to be sort of riven by the siren call of Katterism on the question of foreign ownership, but kind of quite another for the Labor Party which has generally had a pretty firm line on this, one repeated today by Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon and re-stated in his book by Chris Bowen, to be tempted by this sort of approach, this economic you
nationalist approach. Why do you think it happened last night?Well, it's desperation. Kevin is worried that...Is it Queensland?Well, it is just generally desperation and he is appealing - he anything that he thinks is appealing - he is grabbing anything that going to pick him up a few going to pick him up votes, and the reality is that as far as foreign as far as foreign ownership of farmland is concerned, you know, I think the more rational approach, the wiser approach is to say, yes, we should keep a good eye on it, yes, we should have a lower, more realistic threshold as we've proposed, but let's not kid ourselves. One of the things Australian agriculture needs is more investment, and foreigners if they're going to invest in Australian agriculture, that is something we should welcome, and I disclose my own interests is a person with farming interests in the Upper Hunter.I think some of the best land owners, the best agriculturalist fs you like, in my part of the world, in the Upper Hunter are foreign-owned. Look at the money the Arabs have put into the thoroughbred industry, for example. I mean, that is a huge investment, generating enormous employment. The real issue in the bush, in my view, my humble opinion - I recognise many people will disagree with this, but my view is the real issue is not the nationality of the owner of the land, but what they do with the land. I think farmers are more - should have more concern about what is going on in of mining or coal seam gas, what might be of mining what might be happening to what might water tables, to aquifers, all of that is very relevant water tables, to aquifers, of that is very relevant and that's something you've also got to approach in a non-emotional and factual and scientific way. But really, if you've got a foreign company who is prepared to put tens of millions of dollars into Australian agriculture and invest that and employ people, why isn't that a good thing?Well, are you comfortable with the Coalition's approach to lower the cut-off for scrutiny of these sorts of acquisitions?The argument is and I think it is a legitimate one that the previous level of $250 million will have excluded - only a handful of farming properties, agricultural properties that would be above that, so lowering it to a more realistic level I think is fair enough. I think it's very important to be aware. But let's not kid ourselves. The big shortage in Australian ago culture is investment, and if people are prepared to invest, then all other things being equal, we should welcome that. This farm of yours in the Upper Hunter, is it anywhere near Mount Penny?I'm not sure about that.Just a property with sheep .I've got an old Atlas.I'm not sure where Mount Penny is, but it's between Aberdeen and Scone and another place up towards Mariundi. They are run as one, and a serious commercial operation. It's not the big est at all, but it is not a hobby farm.This all came out last night. You've got a leader who has changed his mind quite considerably on the question of paid parental leave, as part of a kind of rehabilitation exercise on...Yeah, rehabilitation on...Yeah, I think that's a bit tough. I think it's a bit tough to bit tough. I think tough to say it is a why rehabilitation exercise.Well,
why do people change minds?I think Tony has had his views minds?I think Tony views changed by his children, as often happens, and by the as often happens, modern world, as often happens, and by modern world, the attitudes - his attitudes to a whole lot of social issues, paid parental leave, the role leave, the role of women in the workforce, gay marriage is another one where we've seen enormous changes in attitudes in relatively recent years.I mean, that's a fact, and I think all that Tony is demonstrating is that he is a person with - he is a highly intelligent man with a very open mind and he doesn't - he is not trapped in the views you might call them prejudices, but the views of the past, so he is open to change. He is a modern man and he doesn't have that image, I know, mock some circles, I think he gets a bad wrap rap, an unfair rap on that.
Kevin Rudd raised his temperament as part of the election campaignI know. Can you believe that?What cut spar, as they would say, Kevin Rudd, the make-up artists of Australia fell off their couches. And you were very nice to the make-up artist today?I was. You offered to wash her carAnything for one of my constituents.Paint the house. But putting that to one side, on Tony Abbott's temperament, have you ever seen him - I interviewed his daughters recently, have you ever seen him lose his cool or smash a phone or just - or yell at a colleague? Does he express his frustration by losing his temper?Quite honestly I have never seen him lose his temper or do his block Seriously? He is a leader of a political party. He would have got...I have never seen him do it, I don't say he doesn't do, but I have never seen him do it. Most people lose their temper from time to time, but he doesn't have a reputation for have being an angry, violent person.I know they go back to when he was at university.You've had arguments with him before?I've had arguments with him but never violence involved. Do you think I would pick a fight with a guy who can box like thatWhen you were looking for someone new for the economic portfolio? Who did the yelling?Tony has described that discussion somewhere in a book or somewhere, he has talked about it, I'm not going to recap it, but it was a tough discussion, about you there was no yelling, and it was a civil discussion, so - I mean, I have not seen him do his block, full stop. So does he do his block? Possibly, but I haven't seen t so I cannot give evidence on this matter.You've talked about him having an open mindMmm.The issue in this election campaign that everyone is afraid to speak of, I will have to whisper it - climate change, no-one wants to talk about climate change at all during the election? Does he have an open mind on climate change. Do you sit down with him and say, "What do you really think?" Because he seems to say different things in different for ruls. On the Alan Jones show, he will pay lip service to scepticism. In other areas he says it's human, do you think his mind might start to be closer to your position?I think the accurate description of Tony's position on climate change is that he is an intelligent sceptic in the sense that he takes the view that we should mitigate our risk, that we should reduce emissions, but is he completely persuaded? No, I think it would be wrong to say is he, but he is certainly not someone who is a denier - you know, denies the science and says it is all a conspiracy and says it's all Lord Monckton
wrong. He doesn't describe to Lord Monckton or anything like that. The policy that we have which is largely his work, course, his and Greg Hunt's work, is to use Direct Action in subsidies work, is to use Direct in subsidies , incentives, et in cetera, to reduce cetera, to reduce our emissions cetera, to reduce by 2020 and to the agreed bipartisan level by having regard to happening in the rest having regard happening in the rest of the
world, work happening in the rest world, work out what our policy should be post-2020, and it is a more cautious, more conservative approach than having an emissions trading scheme, but I think - you would be wrong to put him in the Lord Monckton category.But do you think he is open to persuasion? You've talked about him having an open mind. We have seen him change his mind on other thingsOh, yes.Can we see him changes his mind on this - well, not changing it but moving closer to your position?Well n my experience, he has been guided by the facts and he has already been very open to science, especially political science.One more quick question? What about on gay marriage then? Do you think there is ever a circumstance where he would not stand in the way of the party allowing gay marriage?Well, I would - I don't think it's likely that the Liberal Party would change its platform, as it were, to support same-sex marriage, but I think it is quite likely, very likely, reasonably likely that we will have a free vote in the next Parliament and that many Liberal members, therefore, will vote in favour of gay marriage, if you like, and of course I will be one of them. I'm in favour of a free vote and in favour of marriage equality or recognising gay marriage.So do I think Tony would change his mind on that? I don't know. That's... Given his family. His daughters are very for it, his sister, of course?Well, Tony is informed by his Catholic faith. Again, he is not - he Again, he is not - he gets aggrieved as constantly being aggrieved as painted as Captain Catholic, and he doesn't give press conferences jot side of Church, unlike someone else we could mention, so he wears that - he has a very strong Catholic commitment. So that make it is awkward?Well, it does and it doesn't. It's interesting, there are a lot of Catholics who take the view that the Church has got a position on marriage and - but that does not necessarily mean the state should have the same view, and if you think about it, there are a whole range of marriages which are recognised by the law of the land, not least between people who have been divorced, which would not be recognised by the Catholic Church, but you don't have Catholics going around and saying, "You are sinful, you shouldn't be married." That's quite true, but the Catholic Church has been very clear on gay marriage?Yes, but I think you will see - well, let me answer it in a slightly different way. It's interesting that some of the countries where gay marriage was legalised first were very Catholic countries, like Spain, Argentina, where there was a longstanding tradition of having a civil marriage at the town hall, in the registry office, and then quite separately, a religious marriage if you chose to have one, whereas in Australia, if you go and get married in a Church, the minister of religion... (Phone rings)That's a case of beer.That will be Malcolm's adviser saying, "We needed to be out of here 5 minutes ago." Let me just finish the answer.Either that or the PopeHere you get married and the priest is acting for both the chur hch and for the Commonwealth of Australia. In Europe, you've got two separate roles - the state or the Lord Mayor or the register, or the clerk at the Town Hall does the State, and it is a matter of indifference... (Phone rings)It is a matter of indifference because you keep on allowing your phone to ring.I've made my point, I think.Well, you have and thank you for that. I have more questions, embarrassed to ask hem.I have to go to the hotel now for politics in the pub, 7:30. It will be the 339 bus, but I will see. I will see how much time I've got.Anyone else want a plug, just ring Helen McCabe, if you plug, just ring Helen if you do, the phone is on, the lines are open. Malcolm, thank you very much for sparing quite a krcial chunk of time to talk to us this evening. We do very much appreciate it and we shall whisk you out in a minute, thank you. We've touch #d on it briefly already, rather considerably in fact. Last night's leaders' forum saw the PM shift position on the thorny issue of foreign ownership first. Tony Abbott indicated the Coalition Government would continue to support foreign ib vestment, albeit with safeguards. Mr Rudd jumped in, surprising many, with his passion for a more cautious approach.I am a bit nervous, a bit anxious frankly about simply open slather on this. Your question is what would our policy approach be. I am looking very carefully at how this affects the overall balance of ownership in Australia, and I'm thinking particularly our agricultural sector, but the impact in certain cities also.Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says the PM wasn't advocating legislative changes.We've had no discussions about tightening the FIRB rules but certainly we've had a lot to say about building transparency in public confidence.Truss interests Truss says Labor has all but ignored a foreign policy review paper ignored the Coalition's work and he is questioning why the PM didn't raise and he PM didn't raise his concerns earlier, say, last week.During all that earlier, say, last all that process, all that time, all time, the Labor Party were all that process, all that constant critics of everything that we did. They rejected that we did. They rejected the concept that we should place attention on national interest in dealing with these kinds of issues. Only about a week and a half ago, Kevin Rudd himself was in Darwin talking about how essential it was going to be to have foreign investment to develop the North, and now in a thought bubble, a few days away from the election, he suddenly seems to be having second thoughts.Helen McCabe and feel free to phone a friend if you need to, this policy position that emerged last night from the PM doesn't really seem to have been ventilated with even some of his closest supporters, does it?No, it looks like one of his thought bubbles and this is the third one of the election campaign so far and you wonder what the next one is going to be. Look, it's quite clear, the Labor Party has never been supportive of this policy and you name Chris Bowen, Craig Emerson has always spoken out and the need for foreign investment in farm something well-known. I think there are figures that suggest that it's only like 5 % of this country has foreign invest ment in agricultural land, so it's very small. There is a lot of land in this country.But it hasn't changed all that much over the decades?Hasn't changed all that much at all, no. It is a vast country and investment in rural land is a good idea.Bob Katter actually accused his close friend Kevin Rudd of stealing his policies. If this is a giant trail of Katter-nip ha the PM is laying out, is it worth it?It is pop lus. The 'Sydney Morning Herald', the Fairfax website, they're running a poll, do you support what Kevin Rudd said? 70%, yes. I listened to a lot of talkback radio today, it is an ish view that runs very, very well, a populist issue, there is big concerns about foreign investment in real estate, even down at Barangaroo where you have apartments million dollars-plus. I know - I can see all the economic arguments and I agree with them. But it is a scare campaignBut there is some resonance with some people.. But that's because it hasn't been properly explainedExactly. A issue loose ik that. I feel it is a kind of straightforward one and for him to run off on this, on Eitan gent rather than like Malcolm Turnbull explained moments ago..doWell, he is figuring, "I might be able to pick those "I might be able to pick votes up." I votes up." I want to hear James Diaz explain it. " No. 2 is... ash, ah ah ah..." he want to a frakt foreign investment discourage them
to the North of Australia, but discourage them in making investments through FIRB. Again, he make it is up on the run.It seems to have been made up on the spot. If you look at today, Penny Wong, some of the interviews she was doing today, she couldn't explain where it came from and I'm sure - you would have loved to have a Cameron in the room among the Labor advisers.It's interesting that these are, I guess, random questions operationally speaking. Joe, the other thing the PM seemed to be intimating he could kouns Nance changing was the age, rules at what age people could access their superannuation funds, and also the question about market duopoly between Coles and Woolworths and what it meant for farmers, he said he was very deeply concerned about farmers getting a rum go from those big retailers?Er and that's a popular issue as well. It plays very well. The independent retailers have been running this campaign in the newspaper and Woolworths and Coles are a very easy target, but that's the job of the ACCC, that's always been the case. In terms of the superannuation, another thought bubble because all he said was, look at it, at some point in the future, wouldn't say how much younger they would be, wouldn't say if it was means-tested. It was again just a little run something up the flag and see how it something up the flag how it focus-groups. This is the PM who said, "No, no, I'm coming back this time. It will be different. Everything will coming back this be about process, consultation," and he is on that jet just making it up as he goes.We've had so many policy changes and reversals as part of a natural consequence, I guess, of changing PMs and changing economic circumstances as well, do you think any of this lodges anymore, or is it just part of this campaign wash and churn that we're experiencing?Ive I think we've had a three-year election campaign and I think people - it has been going for three years, this election campaign. The faces have changed on the other side. Tony Abbott's rhetoric as I saw someone write in 'The Drum' the other day, has been unchanged. Using the same lines. I think people are waiting to go and vote now. I don't think any of this will be registering at all. I work in women's magazines so I work in quite a different environment from when I was reporting in newspapers and in television, and it's quite interesting to me that there is just zero interest. No-one comes into the office or into the lift or around the coffee bar discussing anything about the election. I was at an event earlier this afternoon, the only person who wanted to discuss politics with me was a CEO of a cosmetic company and he just wanted to be reassured that Labor wasn't going to get re-elected, but, no, it is really washing over. The interesting thing for me about Kevin's performance is that he was sitting back in the wings, on the backbench much for quite a considerable period of time, give ag lot of thought to these issues and I ran into him a couple of times and you see he was thinking about asylum seekers, and thinking about Tony Abbott's temperament and how to beat him. That he hasn't got more of a strategy - I thought he would have come bouncing out of the gates with quite a clear idea about how he would take on Tony Abbott, and it just looks very ad hoc at the moment, and I'm surprised by that. I thought he would have been more competitive.Let's move onto one of the areas that has been a source of shifting sands over the course of the campaign. Labor today claims to have found a gaping hole in the Coalition's costings. Yesterday Joe Hockey unveiled the budget cuts and tax hikes worth more than $30 billion, that he said would finance a Coalition Government's spending, but the PM insists that the sums don't add up. Kevin Rudd says the Coalition's figures are off by more than $10 we're doing today is calling more than $10 billion.And what Abbott on we're doing today is calling Mr Abbott truthfulness.This is a $10 billion fraud on the Australian people which billion fraud on the people which he has sought to people put before them within the last 24 put before them within 24 hours.The Opposition Leader
is sticking by his party's numbers.I am absolutely confident, based on the work that has been done for us by the parliamentary Budget Office and our costings opinion knell, that our figures entirely stack up. Mr Rudd has got all of his own figures wrong and now he is getting our figures wrong, too. When it comes to Budget figures, if Mr Rudd's lips are moving, you know he is not Aston,
telling the truth.OK. So, Joe Aston, there seem to be two vastly conflicting accounts of what's going on with these costings. There is Joe Hockey who says that the Opposition has been more open and more honest about where it's going to make cuts than any opposition in the history of democracy, or something along those lines, and Kevin Rudd's who is of the view that the Opposition is being criminally secretive about its intentions. Now, where do you stand on this vast continuum?It is a vastly long way back to where this started because at every election, every government accuses every opposition of having stuffed up their numbers.It's in the brochure, isn't it, really?It's like No. 2 after James Diaz's number one. Number two, just say their numbers were wrong. In the last election, to be fair to Labor, they were right, but the Howard and Costello used to do this through the elections they won as well. The problem is, as Treasury has got the forecasts so badly wrong over the last few years, and the Budget bigger and bigger, and all the while promising bigger and bigger, and while promising to deliver a surplus, Tony Abbott is hitting on a raw nerve there where if Labor is talking on a raw Labor is talking about Budget numbers, it's kind of hard to take it seriously.You infer an automatic black hole will occur every two weeks given how quickly these indisis he s seem to move, John Well, I think Treasury has come out this afternoon with a statement talking about how they're underlying assumptions and a lot of the numbers they did for the Government were done lf before the election period started so in the end probably both sets of figure 'cause be argued to be right. You talk about black holes , that line from Tony Abbott essentially blows the whole thing away, a great line about they can't get their own numbers right. Last election there was a black hole found - I remember in 1987 when Paul Keating came out and said the numbers had not been added up correctly in the final tally of John Howard's policy and everyone said, "Well, that's not possible," and they looked at it and it turned out, it almost blew his campaign apart.That's a rare gift. That's why you don't supply the numbers anymorePrecisely. 1987 and it was Paul Keating who discovered it and you can just imagine what he was like when he discovered that. Of course, these days, I think they try to add the numbers up and that Tony Abbott line summed it up.A cracking start. The source of the variation in the costings here and what Kevin Rudd is on about today is just the assumptions I guess about how much can be saved by doing things like abolishing the low-income contribution.School Kids Bonus.Kevin Rudd says that's worth $1.7 billion, not 3.7 billion. How much does it cost to get rid of 12,000 public servants? The Coalition says 5.2 billion and the Government says 2.8 billion. Do you think this costings process involving the Parliamentary Budget Office which we all hoped would be a final answer to things is any use at all?I think it is an improvement because they have made mistakes in the past, the Coalition is obviously very anxious to make it look like its figures are correct. The problem for Kevin Rudd is that he has been using this $70 million figure for most of the campaign. Now he is trying to tell us it's 10.The figure in the whole debate that
hasn't blown figure in the massively.Only 10. I was kind hasn't blown out of relieved. 70 when massively.Only 10. I of relieved. 70 started.But then you've - you're of relieved. 70 when he
started.But then you're going to get started.But then you've - government come in you're going to government come in and they
will tell government
you're going to get the new government come will tell you a whole heap of different figures anyway, because it is going to be a lot worse because it is going to be a worse than either of us are telling us right now by the time they get those Treasury briefings after the election.I have called this the "not without my daughter campaign" and I have just done that again and I don't apologise for that. This election campaign has been about keeping it in the family. The PM's sons, Nicholas and Murph cuss, have both found jobs on the campaign team, but the daughters who are regularly in the spotlight. Jessica Rudd and Bridget and Frances Abbott have become used to fielding questions about their famous dads and they sat down recently with Helen McCabe recently. What surprised you about your interaction with these young women, anything?They are really impressive girls, all three of them. Louise is the eldest of the Abbott girls and she is not here. I have met her previously because she used as a copy girl, on the 'Sunday Telegraph'. I she was terrific as well. I think I said I said rather clumsily I couldn't find fault. Sometimes when a defewer, you need to find something that's not glowing about them, so I actually said only nice things.Did you get the feeling that they had been coached very heavily before, before you spoke with them?Jess being 30 is very wise, very poised, very considered, safer in her comments. I asked this quick question, "How much does he mean to you?" Immediately you see the emotion hit her. I said, "You don't have to keep talking about this if you don't want to," and she said, "No, I want to talk about this." It was about his heart and she was overcome. They are very tight, the Rudd familyBut on the Bo the bot girls, there was a minder in in the room but she was a long way away. They went into the gay marriage issue, really purposefully, I didn't ask them, and started to get a bit of a not actually, of course he is just leader of the party, so that's what the party wants and of course you can't sort of say that, and it was interesting they didn't - no, there was no-one jumping in, no-one say you can't run that, she didn't mean that. They were very confident and assured and they're a bit funny and feisty, too. I was really impressed with all three girls.Joe, I direct this question to you because you are a famously rapacious gossip-monger and reptile in the press...I love you, too.What are the risks associated for young people who become public figures so quickly and so comprehensively as a result of their father's candidacy?Well...You will be very nice, obviouslyWell, the Abbott girls have a history of saying what they think, like their father. I can't remember how far back it was, but Dad's a game...Lame game Churchie loser #6r7b8g9s One of Annabel's favourite linesDial.It's hard in politics where the kids become such an electoral asset. If you've got daughters like that and that's just electoral gold if you slap it on the front of the paper. Sure, and when you think about mag deeps like 'Woman's Day', tabloid magazine s, if those girls come out of a nightclub and trip over in their high heels, they are public property now.Can they chip out now?The Abbott girls can't while Tony is PM, and...If he is PMWell, if you say so. SportsBet!But the Keating, Katherine Keating was in a similar situation when father was PM. She was quite father was high-profile and afterwards as father was PM. She was It is interesting high-profile and afterwards It is interesting because
they are well.
It is they are relevant as a story they terms of their they are relevant as a value because they have had an influence in changing his thoughts and is he going to be PM and things like the PPL, the paid parental leave you can trace to the influence in his home, but I also wonder if about the future, future leaders, if you had children you didn't want in the spotlight. You will be wanting to...For me, it's fantastic. These girls are so photo generalic and they could conceivably on the cover at some point and I'm always looking for a new cover talent, so he in some ways when I was interviewing them I was feeling a bit protective and concerned about what this means for them, and on the other I was, like, while they are confident and studying and smart, why not let them have an opinion? I was fascinated by their observations on him because he is a complex character, different sides to Tony Abbott and their perspective I found completely fascinating.Did you get the idea that they're likely to up stumps and move to Canberra if their dad becomes PM?No, because they were quite anxious to say what they would do if he wins. They said, "We haven't got there. We are not there yet." I sort of believed them. I said, "What about Kirribilli, would that be great for a 21st.Although the Abbott girls have form, had a FaceBook partyI had the girls have form, had a partyI had the impression that they can get Mum partyI had they can get Mum and Dad out of the house and they can go and live in Canberra or Kirribilli wherever they want and they want will spha home.Someone asked about security detail and they were screwing up their faces, haven't given it a thought about security detail. They are great girls. Louise has managed to miss the whole thing, but she did the 2010 campaign. She is having a European summer. Frances had the European summer this time, and they were saying, that Louise probably won't even come back for the campaign. Interesting, I think she might come back. I don't know, the Sofitel Wentworth, a touch of France.Joe , just finally, does this sudden overrepresentation of young women on the campaign trail with their dads, is that just an accident of breeding and good fortune?Yes, I think so.Or is it a kind of retrospective, corrective hangover of the misogyny wars?Gees, I'm not going there. I think it is just a coincidence. Previous PMs have had daughters, had sons and I think probably in the last - in this new media age, the kids are going to be a bigger part of ongoing campaigns, but I don't think - I think gender is a coincidence. No? Well, I do...The sons are involved but they are getting paid. The sons get paid and the daughters are doing all the heavy liftingTypical. Typical, yes. Look, I think it as about their age. They are able to wander around and if they were little, them it wouldn't be such a big deal.It would be child abuse, probably Yes t would be.They can just kiss other people's babies.Exactly, sometimes with disastrous resultsStill more than a week until polling day, but one of the country's biggest bookmakers has already called the election . Sports bet is so confident about a change of government, it has paid out over $1.5 million in bets for the Coalition. Kevin Rudd didn't seem too bothered by the news. He was eager to compare this election to Labor's comeback in 1993.John Hewson was the favourite. He was the favourite and regarded as a shoo-in. Well, that's Mr Abbott's attitude today and it brings it straight back to about which is principles we have been about which is that because about which is that because he believe about which is that believe s he has the in
believe s he has the election in the bag, he believes he can in the get away with not in the bag, he believes he truthful with get away with truthful get away with not being
truthful with the Australian people.Funnily truthful with the people.Funnily enough, the news about Sports bet reminded Abbott of the '93 election as well.I once worked for an Opposition that was careering towards an inevitable victory and it didn't happen, it didn't happen.1993 is proof that there is no such thing as an unlosable election, and I think this election is very, very tight.Joe, what is Sports bet working at here? What's the tactic?Free press. Those companies...Damn!It is a great story and look what we just did. I even gave it away before we started, sorry about that.Those guys are all Centre bet, Sporting bet, Sports bet, they are chasing that dollar and the more mentions they get in the newspaper and on TV, the better. A good idea for a stunt, to be quite honest.The Labor Party was out 11/1 apparently and obviously there are whole scholarly thesis written about the predictive accuracy of odds and wagering in the run-up to an election campaign, so does that just mean the whole thing just blew?I think the one thing Tony Abbott say we can say definitely not being genuine with the election is when he definitely not said the election is tight. Surely no-one can believe that. Sports bet is coming up with what seems obvious to everyone to get some publicity for paying
themselves. They wouldn't be paying out a huge amount of money. In 1993, John Hewson was cutting everything, $5/hour youth policy. Had policies virtually upsetting every section of the Australian community and he had Paul Keating up against him. This time we've got Tony Abbott, small target , very little to upset anyone. And Tony Abbott was John Hewson's press secretaryYes. I was on that campaign, but I just don't remember him.You're off. You are in trouble.He is massively influenced by his recollections of working for Hewson and working oen that campaign and I always think that politicians learn so strongly by what they've seen their predecessors go through. How do you think that has shaped the way he has operated over the last few years, Helen?Well, at times he has been incredibly safe and he doesn't need to be. Up against Julia Gillard in a massive landslide, he was still playing it safe. If you were the press secretary in that election, watching John Hewson running these rallies, which I do remember because I was on the #k578 pain at that point, and the anger towards him, the whole spheerz just turned on Hewson in those final days, and so, yeah, I think Abbott is very conscious of that and of not doing anything dangerous that might change the atmospherics and give Kevin a little toehold.John, what happens when an Opposition Leader in this incredible pressure cooker environment we've had over the last three years who has been aware that the Labor Party's pre dictions would be that he Bo blow up, has really buttoned down, been disciplined and worked towards this polling day that is now only 9 days away, how do you govern like that for three govern from having like that for three years, like that for do you like that for three years, how
do you move there?Well, I think everything do you move into governing from is setting itself up for there?Well, I think is setting itself up for him to
surprise a is setting itself surprise a lot of people. surprise a lot of people. He looks onedon looks onedon dimensional, sometimes like Hymie the robot from Get Smart and 'The Telegraph' might use, that and I think that might give him an opportunity to show I think that opportunity to show us a quite different Tony Abbott and go counter to those perceptions. That will be an advantage for him.Either that or Sport Sports bet will be in serious strife. We are out of time unfortunately. Thanks to the panel tonight - John Stanley, Helen McCabe, Joe Aston. You can check it out online druxz. Same This program is not captioned. This program is not captioned. This program is not captioned.