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(generated from captions) This program is not captioned. This Program Is Captioned Live. Welcome to Australia Votes. I'm Lyndal Curtis. Tonight, the Coalition finally releases its health policy and it's much more modest affair than in 2010. And the Liberals stop taking tobacco donations while Labor threatens to ban them. Also tonight, News Exchange Votes with Matt Cargill. Ahead on NX Votes, mapping Australia's most active electorates and the social web reacts to the second leaders' debate and in particular Tony Abbott's dig at Kevin Rudd. Today we're asking do we need more respect in politics both online and off and should the politicians be setting the example? Get in touch: It's back to Capital Hill in a moment. First here's Richard Davies with a check of the news headlines. Syrians have begun burying hundreds of victim of what appears to be a chemical weapons attack on civilians. 1300 people have been killed. There have been shocking images of children and adults suffering. Syria's Government accusations.
has strongly denied the accusations. The UN Security Council has held an emergency meeting to discuss the apparent atrocity. Forensic investigators are still at the scene of a double murder and a police shooting on the Sunshine Coast. Officers were called to a domestic disturbance last night where a man confronted them. He was later shot dead by police who found the bodies of a man and a woman inside the house. The couple who were aged 43 suffered a serious and horrific injuries before they died. The ABC has been told a 12-year-old girl was in the house and went to neighbours for help, they called police. When they arrived at the scene they found a man coming at them with a mushety and a knife. They shot at him several times, he dropped to the ground, was taken to hospital and that's where he died several hours later. Police have cordoned off one of the main streets here in evidence.
Coolum as they sift through the evidence. The bodies have been taken away. The Police says this was for the two constables who came says this was a difficult night for the to the house of for the two constables who to the house Very unfortunate that shows the Very unfortunate difficult and dangerous nature of police work and as we know of police work and there are two people who are deceased in the house and it is a tragic event which should never have taken place but unfortunately it has. Many residents heard gunshots ring out at about night and they were too afraid
to come out. When they did, they saw that there was an ambulance here, a man was being carted off and they said they've never seen anything like this in the sleepy town of Coolum on the Sunshine Coast.Josh Bavas with that report. A man has been killed and another seriously injured at a construction site in Melbourne's southeast. The men storey
were trapped when the second storey of the billing they were working on collapsed. More from gen Edwards. Four men were working on renovating the shop when it collapsed. Two electricians and two builders. They're understood to have been working on the ground floor when part of the building collapsed on the two carpenters. One of them, a 21-year-old man, was killed. His work mate, a 48-year-old man, was pulled from the rubble and has been taken to Melbourne's Alfred Hospital. He has a couple of broken arms and possibly a broken leg. Police think some building material on the second floor has fallen through to the first floor which to the ground floor on top of the two men. The two electricians escaped. I spoke to a young man called in to help by police, he was a passer-by. He says when he got inside he was asked to lift a lot of timber off the men and it was chaotic. It was a delicate rescue for the rescue workers and Victoria's workplace be called to investigate and
work out why the workplace safety regulator will
be called work out why the building
collapsed. Authorities in Oklahoma released a recording of an emergency call revealing the final moments of Chris Lane's life. A passing motorist found the Melbourne baseball player just moments after he was shot in a player was shot in a thrill killing.

The US State Department has offered condolences to Australia, saying local authorities are committed to bringing those responsible to justice. The three teenagers charged with Chris Lane's murder will appear in court again in October. A trial considering charges against two Defence Force cadets involved in a sex Skyping incident has heard the alleged victim had been told the encounter would be Skyped. Daniel McDonald is accused of filming himself having sex with a fellow cadet, streaming it on Skype to other cadets in Dylan's room without the woman's knowledge. Today the court heard two interviews in which McDonald claimed he told the woman she would be on a web cam. He said she'd been smiling at the camera when he later came out of the shower. The woman says if she'd known of the filming she'd have left immediately. The industrial umpire has approved a big pay rise for new genier apprentices. The first-year pay rate for a first-year apprentice will be increased from 42% of the adult rate to 55% or almost $400. Those over the age of 21 will have their wages increased to 80% of the adult rate. And those are the news headlines, now pack to Lyndal Curtis in Canberra with Capital Hill.

The Coalition has unveiled its health policy with a promise to maintain overall funding. Tony Abbott says had system is generally well funded but the allocation of resources could be improved. At the last election the Coalition promised more than $3 billion in health spending. This time around it's around a 10th of that. Mr Abbott's promising more for front-line services, especially GPs, and less bureaucracy but not guaranteeing the future of all of Labor's Medicare local primary health services. Can I say that absolutely no Medicare local will close. I'm not going to say that but I am giving an absolute commit here today that the overall levels of health funding will be maintained. Overall levels of health funding will be maintain ed. We just want to ensure we get the best possible bang for the buck that we want a maximise health services while minimising
health services while health bureaucracy.The
Opposition's services while minimising
health Opposition's health spokesman, Peter Dutton, says the plan will also streamline the approval Peter Dutton, says the approval of drugs on the PBS and focus approval of drugs and focus on training for medical professionals. I spoke to him a little earlier. Peter
Dutton, welcome to Capital Hill. Are you now largely in agreement with the Labor Party on the direction for health and hospitals in this country? Lyndal, good to be with you and the Coalition's made a significant commitment to the future of our health in this country and it's an important announcement today. We have said that we will match the Government's funding for public hospitals into the future. We have the same aspiration in terms of what they want to do in terms of funding in public hospitals so the focus for us today has been around rebuilding general practice and I think there's been a difference between the Government's approach in the last six years, in particular towards doctors but medical practitioners in general and we say a lot today about how we want to rebuild general practice and I'm very proud of that. If I could stick with hospitals for one moment, two questions - one is Labor has been making promises during this campaign about commitments to hospitals in different states. Will you match that if you win? We're just having a look at what the Government's promised. It's hard to see where they're getting that money from and it seems to me a bit from Kevin Rudd at the moment that it's a going out of business sale, sort of a Crazy Kev's clearance sale and we want to make sure that these figures aren't just being plucked from the air. I want to make sure the funding commitments we're making are legitimate and we certainly support infrastructure spending within what are some very tight assets across the states. 750 public hospitals will work with them to look at will work with them what their priorities might be and we will make announcements if we're able to before the election.Now, in the last election campaign Tony Abbott made much of having a community-controlled public hospital system. The language in this policy seems slightly different, talking about community involvement. Was community control a bit too much some have you in fact changed your view on that? No, Lyndal, what's happened since the last election is that we've seen the State Governments introduce, in Queensland for argument's sake, a health and hospital service, a board type structure which is allowing the bureaucrats, I guess, to be by-passed and for decisions to be made locally and that's been quite a development at a State level. We've welcomed that and the flos yfr for us is to try and devolve power down as close as possible to the grass roots. We deliver on that promise today and as a result I think we can promise better health outcomes, more timely decisions within hospitals and health services around the country and ultimately a better outcome for patients. You previously criticised the Government's Medicare Locals, now you're committing to review them. Will any of them close? I said a few months ago at the AMA conference we would conduct a review. I said that we had terms of reference which I released at the time and if you go back to the terms of reference they're in black and Rudd's lies
white which demonstrates Kevin Rudd's lies about sacking 3,000 people really are the signs of a desperate man. We're not going to sack 3,000 people. I want to make sure though that given the way in which Medicare Locals were hastily set up that they are the most efficient structure and the most efficient deliverer of the front-line spend and I want to make sure that if the back office is too heavy we can translate some of that into front-line services. That's the stated objective for some time, it's not about abolishing, it's about making sure we're getting the most efficient spend of money possible and with this review we again deliver on that promise. And what about GP superclinics? The superclinics, of course, 64 of them were promised, only about half have been delivered after 6 years, some have been abandoned altogether, some of them required funding bail-outs of $14 million and the Government's stated purpose, Mr Rudd looked down the barrel of the camera and said the superclinics were about trying to defer presentations at emergency departments. The Government's not offered one shred of evidence that that has happened despite the fact that they've spent $650 million in that program.So you wouldn't 29 that model at all? The money's been gifted upfront. The contract were so poorly structured that the Commonwealth just gave the cheques to the medical entrepreneurs on day one and there's no staggered payment process f you like. That money by and large has already been paid out. We've said where contracts are in place that if it's appropriate for the Commonwealth to honour those we'll do that. In terms of the ones that haven't yet been roll out, but our commitment is with where the Commonwealth's already pledged support, we'll honour that Tony Abbott did say there would be cuts and money reinvested in health. Will the cuts you make to spending be cuts that come from health? We've made a few announcements obviously today was the most substantive announcement we've made but we've made an announcement to put $35 million into trying to find a cure for juvenile diabetes, type 1, I made a $10 million announcement a couple of weeks ago in Warrnambool, we've made a $5 million funding announcement for another hospital at Wangaratta, we've made- That's all spending. I was asking about saving and health. Sure, in terms of what all of that adds up to, we will provide the costing details at the time that Joe Hockey releases his document closer to the election day but there will be some re prioritisation of the way in which the giant bureaucracy is growing in Canberra over the course of the last six years and we're trying to get some of that money back to doctors and nurses and into more operations and out of the back-room operations. If we do that we can deliver better patient outcomes for Australian families. At the last election you promised 1.5 billion dollars for mental health. We don't know your plans for mental health but will you be promising anything similar? Lyndal, one of the proudest achievements over the course of the last few years at a personal level was the announcement that we made at the last election on mental health. It was the second-biggest commitment that a political party had made to mental health in our country's history. Tony Abbott of course promised and delivered $1.9 billion as Health Minister. The Government took up, to their credit, some of what we promised at the last election and we'll make further announcements on mental health but it remains a priority for the Commonwealth and it remains a priority for the Coalition so I want to make sure we more money again into
front-line services not into bureaucratic structures. If do that we can make a real difference in people's lives. Tony Abbott announced the Liberal Party would stop accepting donations from tobacco companies this morning. He said the party would repay the money if Labor repays the money it got from the health services union. Isn't it the case though that the health services union has killed anyone and tobacco does some Health services union's ripped off hospital workers, some people on average incomes, people like Craig Thomson now being supported and really propped up by Kevin Rudd and the ALP unit that's paying for fees and all sorts of things for Mr Thomson. This has been a grubby, grubby affair with the HSU.But why equate the two in that way? The union movement sought even to disassociate itself with the HSU. The activities of the HSU have been demonstrated in some parts to be illegal and some matters are under investigation obviously and before the courts but the fact is that the Labor Party benefitted to the tune of millions of dollars over the years from the HSU, potentially from corrupt and illegal practices. What wive said today is the Liberal Party will not be accepting donations as we go forward from tobacco companies and that's a positive development and as Tony Abbott rightly pointed out today, under the Howard Government smoking rates in this country that
drop by 20% and we can build on that work if we can win the election in September. Will increase
you agree to Labor'sdition to increase the tobacco tax? We've not made a public announcement in relation to that as yet but we first proposed an excise increase a couple of years ago which the Government adopted so that will give you some indication of my feeling on the topic and we'll make an announcement between now and September 7.Peter Dutton, thank you very much for your time. My pleasure. Thanks, Lyndal. ProComing up in news exchange votes, the moment in the debate that got people online talking despite Tony Abbott calling for Kevin Rudd to do the opposite. And later, I'll speak to the Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus. Now to our panel and joining me today is Labor MP Rob Mitchell and Liberal MP Craig Kelly. Welcome to you both.We will begin with Tony Abbott's other big announcement today, that the Liberal Party will no longer accept tobacco donation. Earlier, the Government pledged that if re-elected it would ban political parties from receiving such donations. Mr Abbott then moved to neutralise the issue, saying he doesn't want Labor using it as a campaign distraction. He's confirmed money already received won't be returned. I've instructed the Liberal Party I've Party to accept no further Party to accept no donations from tobacco companies. Will donations from companies. Will you refund the money that's been paid to your campaign already? No. I campaign already? No. I will gladly ask the Liberal Party to refund money from tobacco companies when Mr Rudd refunds the health services union sun ventions to the Labor Party.Craig, Mr Abbott said he didn't want had issue to be a distraction but isn't this a decision that should be taken on the principle of whether or not a political party should accept donations from tobacco company s? I think you should look at the Liberal Party's record on this. When Tony Abbott was our Health Minister, the policies he brought in actually cut cigarette smoking
in this country by 20%. Our record is very clear on this , also over the last financial year the cigarette companies donated a paltry $8,000 to the Liberal Party, that's something like $50 per seat. The Coalition is clear, our policies are to reduce the amount of smoking in this country. We've done it before, we'll continue if we're successful at the election. You haven't yet committed to accepting the election. You haven't Government's excise rise for tobacco, have you? That's something that will be fully detailed before the election in the full costings of all the policies.Rob, the Labor Party has for some time been making political capital out of the fact that the Liberal Party has up until today accepted tobacco donations. We've you've been playing politics with this issue as well, haven't you? We haven't accepted tobacco donations for years and the day Kevin Rudd announces we're going to put into legislation to stop political parties receiving donations from tobacco companies, Mr Abbott comes out and says, "I'm instructing the Liberal Party not to take any more." He was caught on the back foot, it's election eve and he's got a pocket stuffed full of money the Liberal Party have received and he still hasn't been strong enough, shown any leadership to say to his State branches, "You will not take money from tobacco companies either." We've been very strong on tobacco and smoking and with our plain packaging legislation, with the excise to put money straight into cancer support, we've been very, very clear on it. What's happened is Mr Abbott was caught on had back foot again and he's gone, "Oh, well,ialier join the party now and not take tobacco money." He's got a pocket full of cash they're using. He should give it back. Craig, should the State Liberal Parties follow Mr Abbott's lead? I think we should be asking the same question of Kevin Rudd. We know Mr Rudd was sponsored by one of the companies that works in the tobacco industry on a trip to Germany earlier this year. That point's been made by the Coalition today. My question was should the State Liberal Parties follow the lead of Mr Abbott and not take donations from tobacco company s? That's obviously a question for the State Liberal Parties but the Coalition's record is very clear on this. We have had the Paul ess that have been most scyfl to reduce tobacco smoking in this country. We want to see further reductions in tobacco smoking in the country and that's clearly what the Coalition policy will proceed if we're successful at the next election. Moving on to last night's debate and today both leaders agreed to another forum-style showdown in Sydney next week. Much of the wash-up from last night's encounter has focused on the rhetorical question posed by Tony Abbott. Labor accused the Opposition Leader of being aggressive after he asked if Kevin Rudd ever shuts up. Mr Abbott insists it was the Prime Minister who set out to be confrontational. Just one final point on this. Does this guy ever shut up? Look, one contest that I can never win
against Mr Rudd is contest that I can never win against Mr Rudd is a
talk-a-thon. I just never can win a talk-a-thon against Mr Rudd. He's been very disciplined of late and you wonder what's beneath the surface and I think we got a glimpse of what happens when glimpse of what happens when he snaps last night for a brief moment. He is a very aggressive individual. Rob, do you think the Kevin Rudd we saw in the debate last night was harking back a bit to the Kevin Rudd we saw in his first campaign that we haven't really seen so far in this campaign? I think the debate showed clearly we have-V a choice between a statesman and a leader and a thug. Quite clearly, what happened is that when the chain was rattled Mr Abbott couldn't help himself, he had to bark and show his true colours. The whole point of the thing is Tony Abbott can only speak in a little quick 3-word sound bite. Kevin Rudd explains policy, shows direction and shows leadership and when Tony Abbott was put on the spot he went to water and reverted to his natural instincts which is to be the attack doggyism don't think Australians want that sort of person to be the international statesman and be the representative of this country around the world so it's very clear that when Tony Abbott's let off the chain a bit he's straight back to his thug ways. Craig, do you think Mr Abbott did that deliberately last night? It's a colloquial expression and I'm sure there were millions of people sitting in their homes back round Australia that wanted to say the same thing to Mr Ruddtism was another clear win in the debate to Tony. He now leads 2-0 and I'm sure we'll be looking to the coming looking to the next debate coming up at Rooty Hill to see if Tony can make a clean sweep 3 if Tony can 3 H. 0 of if Tony can make a 3 H. 0 of the debatesch It's not the first time he's told a Prime Minister to shot up. He's got form on this. He did it with former Prime Minister Gillard. As soon as a bit opressure comes on he goes to water. As soon as he's expected to answer a question with more than three words and slogans he goes to pieces.Does it show - Craig, I'll ask you first, and then Rob, that not much else came out of the debate if we're talking about one remark from Mr Abbott? I think the format of dethe debate was very good. Questions from the public, I think there should be more of this style of debate rather than a structured format we saw at the press club. Rob, do you think this style of debate works better inof course it was the parties that im posed the press club format? I think the debate was sensational. You had a Prime Minister talking about positive plans for the future. We have seen Tony Abbott get rattled very quickly. He admitted he'd been telling porkies all day about his paid parental leave. All day, all week, it's fully costed, fully funded, the levy on 3,000 companies will pay for the whole thing and then when the acid was put on him he fell down and said, "We've got a big hole in our budget and we can only fund 50% of it through the levy." I think you must have been watching another debate, say
Rob. Are you saying he didn't say that and It is clear, the paid parental leave, how it's paid for is clear. It's been costed by the parliamentary Budget office. It is clear and transparent. We have had several discussions on this program about this issue. I might ask both of you an issue about campaigning , both of you hold seats by margins above 5%. Rob, what does an MP do during an election campaign? Is it an endless series of door-knocks and fetes and community events? It's a very busy time but if you're a good MP you should be out there visiting communities and talking to people all the time. What we spend a lot of time is at railway stations, shopping centres, schools and talking and meeting people face to face, having chats on the phone, wherever we can find an opportunity it have a conversation with someone and talk about the differences Australia has a choice to face. They have a choice of Kevin Rudd's positive prosperity or Tony Abbott's austerity measures and I think what's coming out more and more is
coming out more people, who are generally dis engaged with politics at people, who are generally best of times, I'm engaged best of times, I'm sure more
people engaged with politics at the
best of people know what's happening at the Essendon football people know what's happening than what's going on the Essendon than what's going on in
politics, as than what's going on politics, as they start to listen more it becomes clear listen that Australians cannot listen more it becomes to have Tony Abbott as Prime Minister.And Craig, the same - much the same sort of events that you is-V? It is a great time to be out and about. The time to be out and about. feed bbling we're getting on the ground to the Coalition's plans is really, really positive ask very, very encouraging. We're also having to spend unfortunately a bit of time dispelling a lot of the misleading statements and lies the Labor Party are putting out. Moestpeople are seeing through those, seeing the positive future Tony Abbott has for this country and they're positive to the plans we're outlaying.If I can ask you both this question, first to you, Rob, politics is something for outgoing people, do you find yourself doing things you wouldn't normally have tried? I never kiss babies if that's what you're referring to. No - and try not to wear silly hats because it's not a good look but, no, I do a lot of things exactly the same as we do with the Roty Clubs school gate viz lths, whether it's out there talking to people about things like paid parental leave and how Tony Abbott was forced to admit that his levy only covers 50% of it and they're his words. We go out and talk to people about this so they can actually see they've got a Government positive plan, that's
education,
delivering things like education, like health, delivering things education, like health, like employment education, like employment and workplace safety, these sort of things that are really important for their futures. So you're always out there doing these things. Sometimes some days are a little longer than others and there's times when you like to get home and kick your feet up and have a cup of coffee with the wife but it's a very important time because really we're at a cross-roads whether we have a positive Prime Minister or Tony Abbott's negativity and I think people are more and more starting to see that Kevin Rudd is a statesman and a leader and Labor's positive plans we're putting forward, which are costed and are funded, are actually the right way to go. And Craig, the question I put to Rob before, Rob you digressed a little, have you found yourself doing things you don't normally do? Not a lot. It's been a really enjoyable time. You're getting out and every day you're speaking to hundreds and hundreds of people. The one thing that's coming about, people want to see a change of Government. They say five and a half years of this Labor Government is enough. It's simply time for a change and that's the message I'm getting right across my electorate.Rob, your seat of McEwan is one that has been - that has changed hands a number of times and on some occasions it's been won by a very slim margin. What is the sense you have this time round? The sense is that I think the tobacco-sponsored Liberal Party's ridiculous spending of hundreds of thousands of dollars is wearing thin on people. They want to actually know their MPs, they want to actually know that you're there and you're part of the commune, that you live in the seat, you work in the seat and you've delivered all your promises and that's what we're offering and we're seeing a really good, strong, positive result to that. It's been important to make sure that we continue to support families in education, in health and in workplace safety and also to ensure we have positive plans for industry, we have lot of manufacturing workers. Although Labor has stepped up its negative advertising, hasn't it? I think you've got to fight fire with fire and we see the constant lies that get put out by the Liberal Party about power, water and gas prices going up , these astronomical figures. It is quite amazing when you have a the State
look, these things are done by the State Governments so in my particular case, my Liberal opponent was an executive member of the Victorian Government which put massive price rises on gas, water and electricity and then they're trying to blame the Federal Government. I think people are seeing straight through that and saying, "We're sick of this rubbish, tell us what you're going to do, how you're going to make our lives better," and that's where Labor's come back and is in a very strong position. Craig, what's the sense you're getting of your own seat? Meanie people are coming up to me saying they previously voted Labor and will change their vote at the next election. Rob brings up concerned
electricity prices. People are concerned that Labor under the ETS, in five years times the carbon tax or Bryce or ETS will pee 50% higher under Labor's policies than it is today. Under the Coalition there's a clear difference, the Coalition will scrap the carbon tax, will scrap the carbon tax, and make people's electricity prices lower. Can you guarantee the prices will go prices lower. down or will they just guarantee the prices will down or will they just not go
up by as much? If the carbon tax is removed, consumers and small businesses can be sure small businesses can be that the next electricity bill they will get will be lower than the last one.Imp Craig, what is the carbon price on a kilowatt of energy? What is the carbon price? Rob, the current carbon price you've increased by 5% 12 months ago and your policy will see it increase 50% in 5 years time. On that note, gentlemen, we've run out of time, we're probably not going to solve that question here but Rob Mitchell and Craig Kelly, thank you for your This Program is Captioned Live.

Political news with a digital focus. I'm Matt Cargill and this is News Exchange Votes. Coming up, the aftermath of the second leaders debates. We ask whether there needs to be more respect and civility in politics. A make-up artist causes a stir after putting her view on Facebook. Here is Richard Davies with the news.The Syrians have begun burying hundreds of victims of what appears to be a chemical people
weapons attack. Up to 1,300 people have been killed. There have been shocking images of children and women suffering on the outskirts of Damascus. The Syrian Government has denied the accusations. Forensic investigators are at the scene of a double murder at a Sunshine Coast home. Officers were called disturbance last night. He was later shot dead by police who then found the bodies of a man and a woman inside the house. Authorities are investigating the cause of a building collapse which killed a worker in Melbourne's collapse which killed in Melbourne's south-east. Fire crews say part of the second storey collapsed, trapping two men at the construction site at Caufield South. A 21-year-old died at the scene. A machine in his 40s was taken to hospital. I'm Richard Davies. Now it's back to News Exchange Votes with Matt Cargill.

Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd have agreed to another Leaders Forum next Wednesday and this time it will be battleground Western Sydney. The day after was
the Brisbane encounter, the PM was campaigning south of Geelong in Victoria. He briefly turned barista and promised to cut red tape for small businesses. Tony Abbott was in Sydney launching the Coalition's health policy which he says will make it easier for people to see a GP. Those policy pictures continue to be overshadowed by last night's forum, in particular where Kevin Rudd pressed Tony Abbott over how the Coalition would fund its paid parental leave scheme.Mr Abbott, that doesn't billion that
add up. You don't get to $5.5 billion that way.I'm sorry, the parliamentary budget office aGreece.Just...Does this guy ever shut up?That is the standard technique when the questions get sharp.The Opposition Leader shrugged off the exchange. Tony Abbott said he doesn't mind a debate as long as there is substance.One contest that I can never win against Mr Should is a talk-a-thon. I can never win a talk-a-thon against Mr Rudd. I'm not against talk. My problem with Mr Rudd is that he is all talk and no action and when he does take action, it's invariably action that damages people.The front page of Queensland's 'Courier Mail' went with this headline today, however Kevin Rudd is keeping his eye on the prize by lobbying the Labor faithful in Victoria.This is the fight of our lives! People have written me off before. I have a habit of coming back.(LAUGHTER). I've been written off more times than I can remember. If I was to put together the newspaper headlines which said "Rudd dead and buries, Rudd dead and buried", they would add up to two volumes of the fourth shelf of the library here in Geelong. You know something, I'm made of sterner stuff than that.The people's forum dominated