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ABC News Breakfast -

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(generated from captions) Good morning and welcome to ABC News Breakfast. It's Friday, 2 August I'm Michael RowlandAnd I'm Beverley O'Connor. Our top stories - bank customers warned they will pay for Government's planned deposits levy.

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Live.Free at last - Edward Snowden leaves a months co airport after Russia grantings him temporary asylum.We are extremely disappointed that the Russian Government would take this step. Mr Snowden is not a whistleblower and he should be returned to the United States as soon as possible.Life without parole for the Cleveland kidnapper who held three women captive for a decade.The penalty will - the death penalty will be so much easier. You don't deserve that. You deserve life in prison.And Captain Clarke makes a Ton on day one of the third Test. That was wonderful to see. Lots more on that coming up very shortly but the Federal Government is set to announce a levy on bank deficits and customers are likely to foot the bill. It's proposing a y of 0.05% on deposits up to $250,000.It will take effect from 2015 and 2 unthe money will be used to guarantee deposits in the event of a bank collapse.Melissa Clarke joins us now from Parliament House. This has unleashed such a storm of criticism, I guess, banks and taking people's money is never a good move.No it's not likely to be popular, that it will affect 99% of that it will affect deposits.What we currently have is a system where dep, have there is to be a collapse of there is to bank, the Government there is to be a collapse of a bank, the a budget appropriation bank, the Government just makes a budget appropriation to bail if a budget if out if that is what it decides to do. It has been under suggestion from the prudential regulation authority, from the IMF, to fr the RBA to consider this kind of scheme where they collect money in advance of an event in an effort to protect deposits holders if there is the collapse of a bank but it's likely to be unpopular rment whendown

Talking about $5 for every $10,000 deposit or or, now depositors don't pay this directly. The banks pay it but the banking association has made it pretty clear most bank also pass that cost on to depositors and if they don't they will have to raise the money some other way. The other option is to put up interest rates for borrowing. So it's something that customer also in effect be paying. The money would go to a financial fund, a financial state fund that would be administered by a body like the Future Fund or one of those type of regulatory bodies. It it does count to the Budget bottom line but it can only be spent to bail out a bank if the bank collapses, it's an interesting accounting measure that is likely to help the Government's overall figure but not help them in terms of making up the gap to find extra money for spending.Of course raising the suspicion that they will want to do something with this money in any event?That certainly raises the question because the Australian Bankers Association makes the point that, whilst yes other country vsz this kind of system, Australia has an extraordinary stable financial system and is one of the few around the world that hasn't had any bank collapses in the last couple of decades and they question the need for this move. In fact at the moment under the current system the Federal Government guarantees bavern deposits up to $250 a year, the same amount, without having to raise a financial state fund in order to keep that promise at the moment.So there are questions being raised by the banking sect or why that current system can't just stay in may well can't just stay in place.There
may well be some deposit holder, be they self-funded holder, be retirees or be they people saving for their home deposit who won't take well saving for their who won't take well to having this extra charge given interest rates are already very low at the moment thaind're not making much on their low at the moment thaind're deposits.We have heard cigarettes, now bank, what other little tid bits have we been able to glean from the statement that we expect some time today or tomorrow?It is expected to be today, it could be tomorrow. But all indications from the Federal Government so far is that it will be today.There are a couple of ideas that have been swirling around and some expectation that the area of foreign aid might be one that is looked at in an effort to save money. We have already had a delay in the Federal Government's target for reaching 0.05% of GDP ratio for international aid development money. That has already been put off by a year to save a couple of billion dollars an there's some concern in the sector that they will put it off for another couple of years and save a few more billion dollars that way. There are some things we do know the Federal Government plans - that spho, keep the Budget returning to a sell Thi surplus in 2016-17 financial year. The Budget back in May had forecast it would be back at least in balance in the '15-16 year and back in surplus in 2016-17. Chris Bowen says they will be returning to surplus then but balance
the Budget being back in balance in 2015-16 looks highly unlikely with writedowns of around $30 billion. So with the deplth flt has a lot of work to do and some nervous public service and those in the #230r7b aid sector concerned about what might come out.Thank you.Lote's get the rest of the morning's news with Michael.Russia has granted temporary asylum to US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden. He's been trapped at a Moscow airport for more than a month and has now been taken to a secret location. Mr Snowden is wanted in the United States for leaking information about surveillance programs. The White House says it's extremely disappointed by that decision and may cancel now an upcoming presidential summit between the two countries.The American man who kidnapped, imprisoned and raped three women in his Ohio home over the course of a decade will spend the rest of his life in jail. The judge has sentenced Castro doos life without parole on more than 900 charges.In a rambling defence of his actions, Castro told the court he wasn't a monster. One of his victs iment, Michelle Knight, delivered an emotional statement to the court. She told her captor he will face hell for eternity for what he has done.Zimbabwe's Opposition Leader Morgan Tsvangirai has dismissed the country's presidential election as a huge farce.President Robert Mugabe's party is claiming victory amid claims of serious vote-rigging. Election observers say up to 1 million people were prevented from casting a voe. Mr Mugabe is running for his 7th term as President and his party has denied claims rigged. At least 40 people denied claims the poll was rigged. At least 40 people are
believed to have died rigged. At least 40 people believed to have died in a
rocket attack rigged. At least 40 people are
believed to rocket attack on an rocket attack on an arms depot in the Syrian city of Homs.The in the Syrian attack happened in attack happened in area occupied by the Aalia white occupied by sect. Un occupied by the Aalia sect. Un verified amateur video posted online shows a massive fire ball blasting hundreds of meeters into the air. Police are investigate ing another shooting in Sydney's West. They were alled to a house at Eagle Vale just after midnight after reporting of gun fire.Several bullet holes were found in the extreeror - ex-tear yore of the house but there are no reports of injury.Let's go to the markets now.

terior of the house but there are no reports of injury.Let's go to the markets now. Let's go back to top story on out of the US and the Government there says it is extremely disappointed by Russia's decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum. The White House insists he should be returned to the United States immediately.We are extremely disappointed that the Russian Government would take this step, despite our very clear and lawful requests in public and in private to have Mr Snowden expelled to the United States to face 2 charges - the charges against him. Mr Snowden is not a whistleblower.He is accused of leaking classified information and has been charged with three felony counts and he should be returned to the United States will
as soon as possible where he will be accorded full due process and move process and protections.This
move by the Russian Government record
undermines a long standing record of law undermines a record of law enforcement cooperation.Jay Carney there at the White House. Ben Knight joins us now from Washington. This is going to do nothing to improve those always fraught US-Russia relations.Sometimes you wonder if the Cold War ever actually ended between the Kremlin and the White House.It really - really relations have barely moved beyond extremely tense and almost frigid since then. This is just another example of it. Remember when Hillary Clinton as one of the first moves as Secretary of State went over and pressed that reset button, trying to let's put all behind us and be friends between slau and the United States. But things just kept coming up. This is of course another one and this has Americans.They say
really infuriated the Americans.They say that they have an absolutely clear cut case that Edward Snowden should be extradited to the United States, there's no reason why he shouldn't. And of course Russia - this was not something that the Russians say they want. Vladimir Putin certainly said we didn't want him here but they have now offered Edward Snowden that temporary asylum. Wurn of the thing s that Vladimir Putin said is we will give him temporary asylum only if he agrees to stop leaking. This might sound strange for a Russian leader to say but he must stop leaking. That is a moot point anyway. We had another major revelation from 'The Guardian' journalist who was the recipient of the Snowden leaks yesterday, whatever was going to come out presumably has already come out. So there's nothing that is going to stop Edward Snowden from releasing more information if he chooses to. This is something that, as you say, has faken the relations between the two countries to a new low. And of course with the two leaders expected to have a summit in Moscow in September, the United States not surprisingly says it's re-evaluating that.Not surprising at all. Let's come back to the US now. There were emotional scenes in that Cleveland courtroom as Ariel Castro got his jest desserts.Look, this was really uncomfortable views. Of course being in the United States you can watch the whole thing taking place live on television. What you saw was Ariel Castro, a man if not in denial, then certainly telling some lies even as he was being sentenced by the judge. He apologised to the victims but it was pretty clear le was sorry only for himself. He of course pleaded guilty to more than 900 counts including murder, rape and kidnapping.But even in court today he was auking back from those, he was denying them, he was telling them I never killed unborn baby
anybody, I never killeded an unborn baby i, never raped anybody, everything that took place was consensual. It was a happy and harmonious home. All these things were coming out during the sentencing phase. It was remarkable to watch. The judge of course wasn't having any of it. He said Mr Castro, you were not a viment imand sentenced him to life in prison without pa role plus $plus 1,000 years and plus court cost and not allows to have any contact with his victims. Probably one of the most compelling part of the day's courtroom hearing was when one of those Victoria ills Michelle Knight got up to speak. Let's -.You will die a little every day as you think about the 11 years and atrocities you you inflicted on us.What does God think of you hypocritically going to church every coming home to torture us, the going to church every Sunday, coming death coming home to torture us, death penalty would be so much easier. death penalty would be so easier. You don't deserve that. You deserve to easier. You don't You deserve to spend life in prison.Powerful words prison.Powerful words indeed. Ben Knight in Ben Knight in Washington. Thank you.Gleets to the front pages of our major newspapers now and the Government's plan to improve an insurance bank levy has dominated the headlines.The Fin rerue says the Government is risking a major fight with the banks on the eve of an election.The costs of that heavy will be passed on to bank deposit ors says the 'West Australian'.That means a customer with a $10,000 saving would pay less than 50 cents a month.Kevin Rudd as you have never seen him before, the 'Courier Mail' describes the move as a bank heist, with beer, cigarettes and now savings targeted to prop up the Federal Budget.And other Stories the Independent Commission Against Corruption is set to engulf another three former NSW Ministers in further investigations, that's in the 'Sydney Morning Herald'.The headline of the day goes to the Sydney's Daily Telegraph following Premier Barry O'Farrell's sacking of his Finance Minister Greg Pearce.The 'Advertiser' says South Australian also pay an extra $90 a year to fund the State Government's solar rebate scheme.The smerls reports that a bikie leader who says he earns $30,000 a year is selling his luxury pent house apartment for nearly 2 million are sending sick babies inter enterdate because are sending sick babies enterdate because they're
stretched

Government has paid around $170 million to a British Government has paid million to a British spy agency in exquhaing for access to intelligence gathering in exquhaing for programs'The Mercury' tells house a Tasmanian ship build ser trying to brokary deal with the Federal Government ser trying the Federal Government to help intercept asylum seeker boats.And the 'Canberra Times' meets the man inside the ACT meets the man inside Brumbies mascot suit, Brumby Jack will be cheering on the super rugby side Jack will be super rugby side in the Grand Final on Saturday:Go the Brumbies. You have heard lots of detail already about this lev ey on bank detsits, that will be unveiled as early as today. What do you think? Keep in mind this levy was recommended to the Government by none other than the Reserve Bank governor Glenn Stevens, the IMF has said it's a good idea at all and if 0.05 levy with are talking about is pretty small in the grand scheme of things. That is how the Government is defending it.But the banks are not happy. They see this as another target on I guess interest rates particularly for depositors which are already under pressure, we know that interest rates are at record low here and every little bit that you can eke out particularly for people who are often living on fixed incomes it will make a difference. The banks are not happy. They will pass that on straight away. We saw shareholders really suffering yesterday with about a 1.5% drop in the share price of all the major banks. Westpac was the only one to recover.Deutsche bank reckon s this will cost the Commonwealth Bank $44 million, Westpac $31 million, ANZ $26 million, they made collectively billions of dollars in profit last year. If you would like to join the conversation, this is how you can reach us.A quick look at the weather.

Our top stories on ABC News Breakfast - bank customers likely to bear the cost of the Government's plan to impose a levy on deposits. The levy will apply to bank deposits of up to $250,000, and will take effect from 2016.The White House says it's disappointed by Russia's decision to grant temporary asylum to Edward Snowden. The fugitive intelligence worker has now gone into hiding after being strand at a Moscow airports for more than a month.And the man who held three women captive in his Ohio home for a decade will spend the rest of his life in jail. Ariel Castro has been sentenced to life without parole for kidnapping, imprisoning and raping the women.

More than two dozen passengers aboard a Qantas flight from Santiago to Sydney have become will a gastro bug.Qantas flight QF28 arrived at sairnt from Chile arrived before 6pm and arrived at sairnt from before 6pm and was met bay
fleet of before 6pm fleet of ambulances. Ground fleet staff had been moatfied that more than 20 people on staff had been moatfied the flight had become ill with diarrhoea and vomiting similar to what is experienced in a gastro enteritis outbreak. They are understood to be a young children and from the same group. These passengers said they started noticing something was wrong only a few hours into the flight from Chile.We had group of young travellers from the Melbourne and Sale area who unfortunately were rather sick for the whole entire flight. What a terrible way to end their holiday.It just gradually wore through them all as the flight wore on and it was 13 hours so it was a long flight for them.We just took their blood pressure to see if they were severe ly dehydrated or anything.The worse they were was a little bit dehydrated but nothing serious.Qantas say despite the fact that passengers started showing symptoms on the flight they're confident the im infection was picked up someones where else one of the boys that was part of the group that became ill had been showing symptoms throughout his stay in South America and had been hospitalised during his trip.Qantas have given out information to all of the other passengers that didn't require medical treatment about gastro enteritis and the plane is currently being quarantined and cleaned.We can take a look at the official response that Qantas has put out in a statement. It says - Let's go to the markets. A short time ago the Dow was 131 points higher, a very good night on Wall Street indeed. The final figures shortly. A bumper night in sport for Australia, it certainly was. It's a very good morning to Paul.Yes, it was pretty good. I thought that Australia all they needed to do was to win the toss and they did last night. It was the first big change for the Ashes series so far. Michael Clarke won the tozs to, decided to bat and the Australians did quite well indeed. They were 3/303 at stumps on day one. You could see there Michael Clarke, the captain, made 12 a. 5. She still at the crease with Steve Smith and Chris Rogers started off really well for Australia, make ing an 84 in good time as well.Graeme Swan looks to be the biggest threat on this pitch and there was some controversy as well was w the DRS. Let's look at the action. That is the way through cover, that is his 50. Tantalising chase there but it's yet another boundary for Chris Rogers and cue the celebration, he's played really well.Edged. Straight to Good. Gone.

England were confident.He wants to review it.That first replay it didn't look to me as if he had hit it.That's His Royal Highness pad, a long way from the ball.It looks like he's missed it to me.I can't believe that. There is no noise, no hot spot. The batsman is not going to review that. I just can't believe that. That is a staggering decision to show that the technology is showing clearly there was enough evidence to overturn a mistake.That is a big appeal. What does he think? Yes.LBW, what is he going to do? Review this? Concentration was disturbed.It looks absolutely plum to me.He is going to go. You don't see that a lot from Clarke. He takes on the short ball and he gets 4 for it.That shot brings up played. Came for Michael Clarke,
it.That shot brings up the 50 for Michael Clarke, well lunch after the unfortunate incident with lunch after the incident with Khawaja.And there it is. Steve Smith was quickly off his mark to make sure that single was had. A century for Michael Clarke. Captain's innings. Well appreciated by Australia.He needed that. They needed it.Wonderful place to score a century. He approves, Allan border. Some real icons on the ground. More to come.More to come indeed. If Australia bats well in 2 first two sessions on day two they can put themselves in a position where they may not lose that Test. James Magnusen has won the world championship gold medal in 100m freestyle in Barcelona. He had a magnificent last 20m of this race that he lost in London., in the London Olympics he lost which one 100th of a second. This time he was able to edge out the two Americans and Australian Cameron McEvoy was #49. Great result there for Magnusen. One 206 other races was really important for Australia too. The Australian team of Alesha Coutts, Palmer, Brittany elmly and Bronte took part in the relay and the American s won it and it was the same as the Olympics.Let's hear from James Magnusen after his terrific victory.It's tighter than I would have liked but
it's been a really emotional last 12 months for me after the Olympics last 12 months for me after Olympics and there was a lot of controversy back in Australia.It was a really emotional swim for me tonight and I think it shows that I've matured a lot over the last year and I think I can put the Olympics behind me now and move forward.James Magnusen, good to see him with a big smile there after what happened in London where he missed out only just, he won the silver. But in the 50m he didn't perform up to his standard.A great relief for Michael Clarke, he was long overdue for a century and Usman Khawaja has every reason to feel absolutely robbed.He does. Let's take a look at the review system now because I have to tell you Steve Smith was really lucky on one as well.It's my contention that the hawk eye shouldn't be used to decide these things and I reckon on replay this looks out. The umpire didn't give it out. England reviewed and this is what happened here with these replays. Smith looks dead out there to to me but he survived because the hawk eye system did not more than half of the ball was going to hit that leg stump adds you will see there.That is the problem we have had, I heard Geoff Boycott railing against the umpire, feeling that Australia got that one but there was the Khawaja bounce. The problem is we have had there now for all three Tests where the umpiring decisions have been bad and the reviews have not helped either.Here is another one that Australia was looked quite lucky but it was given not out. There was no hot spot again. The same as Khawaja. No hot spot but there was some sort of noise there.Do you think the technology is not up - what is it about?I think it's the eyes watching the technology after it, to be perfectly blunt.England was shattered with this one but once again no hot spot. The Khawaja one was the worse of them all for a man to lose his wicket.He needed some runs to feel good, to feel like he was at home and didn't happen.It's a bit of a circus really.We are 3/303.We will look at a couple of highlights of Michael Clarke's innings. He is the centrepiece, if he bats well, Steve Smith seemed to look more comfortable as well having Clarke doing well at the other end. Chris Roger, the veteran, at the top of the order was great. This is what Clarke's been missing, a nice platform to come. InLet's not forget he moved up the order as well which has probably played a fair role in the century as well.Swats cronShane Watson didn't do so well, he failed to build on a start.Apparently they've been doing some realigning their techniques around dealing with the England bowlers.Watson and think they try train together while the think they try train while the rest of the team played the tour match. The conditions were favourable for Australia on day one: It was great Australia on great to win the toss as England did in the first two great to win the toss Tests and they made England did in the first Tests and they made the most of
it. Tests and they made it. It's probably the best of the Ashes so far for the Australians. There he Australians. There he is bringing up his time. That looked like the Michael Clarke Australia.Absolutely.Looking
we saw last Sumner

good. We will get Bryce McGain to come in and give us some professional Aboriginalis in the next hour.I know exactly what he will say about that ruling too! ABC News Breakfast of course can be watched live on the web.Head to the main ABC News website and you will find a link to the program and that is streamed live every day.Paul joins us now with the weather. Good morning.Good morningGood morning f after a very mild July, south-eastern Australia is in for a wintry blast this weekend as this cold front sweeps through today and tomorrow.You 50 k see that speckled cloud behind it. There will be a cold front coming on Saturday. Mostly fine across the North and the west under this belt of high pressure here.In Queensland -

You're watching ABC News Breakfast, good morning. Still to come - the head of Inside PR Mike Smith join s us on the couch for the Friday morning newspapers. We will take you to Washington for reaction to Russia's decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum. And the Federal Government is preparing to release its much anticipated economic statement, we will find out what the markets are hoping for when we chat to economist Saul Eslake. But first the latest new s with Bev.Leading the news this morning - bank customers are likely to be the ones that pay for the Federal Government's planned deposits levy. The money is needed to guarantee deposit s in the event of a bank collapse. The y will be imposed on deposits of up to $250,000.The United States says it's disappointed by vu ru sla's decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum.The fugitive intelligence worker has gone into hiding after leaving a Moscow airport where le has been holed up for more than a month. Mr Snowden is wanted in the United States for leaking information about surveillance programs.The Cleveland kidnapper Ariel Castro will spend the rest of his life in jail, a judge has sentenced him to life. Plus a thousand years for holding three women captive in his Ohio home for a decade. Castro was convicted of more than 900 charges including murder, rape Opposition
and kidnap ing.Zimbabwe's Opposition Leader Morgan Tsvangirai has dismissed the countly's Presidential election as a farce. President Robert Mugabe's party is claiming victory aid mid claims of serious vote-rigging. Election observers say up to a million people were prevented from casting a vote. Police are investigating another sloot shooting in Sydney's west. They were called to a house at Eagle Vale after midnight after reports of gun fire. Several bullet fou holes were found in the efrm tear yof of the house. I appears to be a targeted shooting.All eyes are firmly on the economy a heads of the flths's economic statement, ex - Federal Government's economic statement expected today.Chris Bowen has already announced the extra tax on cigarettes.Here is political correspondent Greg Jennet.These are tough times to be in Treasury. Forecast - revenue falls, so forecast again. The cycle has wiped more than $170 billion out of the budget papers over five years.Now the last budget was less than three months ago and this financial year five weeks old, yet the five weeks old, yet goes on.Revenue is thought to have fall en goes on.Revenue is thought have fall en by up to $6 have fall billion since have fall en by up to billion since the May budget. billion Put that on this year's deficit of Put that on this of $18 billion and the number blows out of $18 billion and the blows out to 2424, then add blows out to 2424, then add in some blows out to 2424, then some extra spund spending thing likes upgrading asylum seeker camp thing
some extra spund spending on Island or more aid for Papua New Guinea, possibly some extra help for the car industry, and the hole could blow out even the hole could blow out wider. But avoiding that kind of damage to the bottom line is what today is all about. So the Treasurer is getting out the budget repair kit - more taxes and more savings. On the revenue side we know about the $5 billion tobacco excise hike and a $700 million banking levy, savings, well they're harder to find. Especially after scraping up around around $4 billion last month to way pay for the early end to the carbon tax. But the politics, they are clear. Limit the red ink, try to deflect the attacks over debt and deficit and hope it all works out in time for the next budget update. That is due in around 10 days, after the campaign begins.To the US where the maven who held three women captive for a decade has been sent to jail for life. A plea deal spared Castro cast from a possible death penalty. Within of his captive spoke in court.Ariel Castro, I remember all the times that you came home talking about what everybody else did wrong and act like you weren't doing the same thing. You said at least I didn't kill you.You took 11 years of my life away. And I have got it back.I spent 11 years in hell. Now your hell is just beginning.I will overcome all this that happened.But will face hell for eternity.From this moment on, I will not let you define me or affect who I am.I will live on, you will die a little every day.As you think about the 11 years and atrocities you inflicted on us.What does God think of you hypocritically going to church every Sunday? Coming home to tortsure us, the death penalty will be so much easier. You don't deserve that. You deserve to spend life in prison.Michelle Knight speaking in that Cleveland courtroom overnight. Let's go to Russia and WikiLeaks has welcomed that country's decision to grant former US spy agency contractor Edward Snowden temporary asylum. In a statement it says Russia has done the right thing by affording Mr Snowden the right to live in and travel around Russia where where he can now plan his next steps in safety.WikiLeaks commends Russia for supporting Mr Snowden when Mr On theries felt compropliezed by US threats they could not.Not surprisingly Edward Snowden has reacted positively to the news. He says -

Americans have given mixed reactions to that that decision. Here is what some had to say in New York's 'Time' Square.I think it shows Russia's true colours. I think it's too bad that that happened.I know he took an oath and the whole idea about secrets and sending - selling secrets to other places is - I don't support. But I also feel it's also important to speak out if you think that something is being done wrong even in your own country.If he was telling the truth I think he needs a safe place to be. Who am I to tell if he is telling the truth. If we were doing something wrong in America and he exposed it, I don't see what the problem is.I think he should have a fair trial.Besides being messed up, I guess they give him asylum because he can give him the secrets that America has, which is of course is going to be adversarial for Australia us.But - for us. Is that is interesting.I see it as wrong. I think he's really put the country in a bad spot with a lot of the other countries.As far as relationships and that sort of thing, there's security to be concerned about in more ways than somebody monitoring my phone calls.I just think it's a complex issue in terms of the countries having their own sovereignty and being able to do things like. That on a personal level I would prefer him to be back but politically I though it's complex.Such a range of views on that news that Russia has granted Snowden temporary asylum. It's land care month and an opportunity for rural and regional communities to focus on what is working and what is not. This year it coincides with severe drought across vast areas of the continues neb.SoSo perhaps the time is right for a speaking tour by Alan who says more cattle not less is important.The problem with holistic management sit's so profoundly simple but it is not easy y.It's so profoundly simple about making better decision about where you want to go in your life, bringing environmental, economic and social ierks simultaneously but it's not easy because it's such a change for us to even think that way.None of you get it.Do you know what the secret of life is?No. What?This.Your finger?One thing - just one thing.You stick to that and everything else don't mean shit.That is great, but what is the one thing?That's what you've gotta figure out.What in mind is a decision make ing process focussed in mind is a process focussed on a single holistic process focussed on a holistic goal. Holistic means the hole is greater than the sum of its parts - in other the hole is greater words, never take your eye off the big picture when making decision about the detail.Some people get it very quickly and it's profoundly simple and some people have come to training year after year after year and they just never get it.I first encountered Alan savoury and holestic management back in 1999.Many of us find our comfort zone very hard to break out of and do things that are quite different that many of our neighbours might not quite approve but u unless we do you will just go down with the rest of your neighbours who are complaining all the time about how the world is crashing commodity prices, how the world is cruel, how the Government ought to do something.But it's you that is the answer.Welcome back to Australia:Thank you.Good to be back.15 years is scarcely a blink in the eye in terms of the age of the planet but since your first work shops here there's been something of a revolution in environmental and land management literacy and you have played your part in terms of animal impact and holistic decision making. Have you made a difference?We are making a difference, yes.Despite all the obstacles, people are managing holistically as far as we know on about 40 million acres at least. It is probably way over that, we are being conservative, on five of the seven continue innocents. So it's a lot of - continents. So it's a lot of progress.Do Australians get it quicker than anybody else or about the same pace?I don't think you're brighter than others. But there is a big movement in Australia. But it needs to expand because your problems are outpace ing it.You're your speak coincides with land care month and with severe drought across most of the continent. That obviously is as severest test of all for manage land and survive livestock managers. The hardest hit of whom would be suffering emotional, physical and financially at the moment. What is your message for those people?Management has to be holistic. I don't think that is arguable and it needs to embrace the latest in our current practice and other source. I don't think any intelligence person can argue against that.So we need to bring that about. And when we do and the people that are doing that already, they are getting through droughts far bed Bretter than others around them. You're experiencing that in Australia.The reason we have all our cows together like this in a tight mob, we're mimicking nature. If you have seen the wildlife African films we say 10,000 wild beasts in a mob and a host of predators around them, Lion, cheetahs and wolfs working day and night to try to get a beast to come out of the mob. When they get into country like this, they graze it right down, whatever they don't graze they trample into the area up and the grund: They foul the whole area up and the whole mob moves area up on together. So basically area up and the whole mob moves on together. So basically all
we're doing on together. we're doing is mimicking we're doing is learned from his nature.George training that a couple training that a thousand carefully managed cows and calves can be manipulated into and calves can into carrying out a tremendous amount of pasture improvement and to satisfy they the I will believe it when I see it statistics he has kept meticulous records from 1996:The biggest change has been environmental. We have gone from non-productive annual grasses which created drought every year no matter if he had rain or not, to the beginnings of very good perennial pastures which are healthy and the stock look good and we're making a profit.Yet the sceptics remain. You remain a target for people to say it doesn't work, it can't work.That is normal. But that's been the norm since Galileo, the first Hungarian doctor that shows that f you washed your hands between cutting up corpses and doing to the maternity ward you would save thousands of women's live, the experts condemned him. He ended in a mental home and as I like to say I was insane at the begin so they haven't been able to drive me there. The important thing point is we're breaking through, the brick is public is getting more aware and things will change.Good morning. You're watching ABC News Breakfast. These are our top stories - bank customers are likely to bear the cost of the deposits. The lev ey improve h pose deposits. The lev ey will apply to deposits. The lev to bank deposits of of up to $250,000. It will take effect from 2016.The White House says it's diss appointed by Russia's decision to grant temporary a I sielium to Edward Snowden, the fugitive intelligence worker has now gone into hiding after being strandsed at a Moscow ierptds for over a month.The man who held three women captive in his Ohio home for a decade will spend the rest of his life behind barsAriel Castro has been sentenced to life without parole for kidnapping, imprisoning and raping the women..Let's get to the morning's papers and we're joined by Mike Smith, the chief executive of Inside PR and the former editor of the 'Age'. I will to see you this morning.Good morning.'Courier Mail'. Had a bit of fun with Mr Rudd and his cash grabbing policies, the way they see it?It did. When a government detective get tontion nose with a newspaper or a group of newspapers they can't do anything right. Everything they do is portrayed in a negative sense and that is the case with the two taxes being discussed at the moment. If we look first of all at the bank levy, this is the way the 'Courier Mail' sees it, as the PM Kevin cash grab bank heist.He looks quite fetching in that beanie.It's a very powerful headline. I can't remember a time when so many newspapers sort of declaring their colours so close to an election.And so dramatically.Maybe it's because the former - the formal election campaign hasn't been called. There's a clear attack on the Government by most of the News Limited papers, particularly the tabloids. It ooh not just in the commentary, it's injected into the news stories and in the headlines.So you think there's the
a definite editorial spin in the actual news stories?I am sure there is in a number of newspapers in Australia.Mind you, many people would say the Government deserves that. This could be perhaps only the second time since 1980 that no newspaper backs Labor.But the point is that it's not supposed to inject editorial opinion.And if you look at the Fairfax paper s treatment of the bank tax story is completely different. If you look at the 'Canberra Times' front page, that is typical down the bottom of the page there, mini budget to hit banks, drive car industry. So it's a tax on bank,Where is the photo shop picture of Kevin? It's boring.That is typical of the headlines in the Fairfax papers. Some people may soft on
say the Fairfax papers are too soft on the Labor Government but a clear distinct distinction in that cover age and it extends to the commentary too. John Durri says it's dumb tax, a desperate Elizabeth Knight says banks about to announce Elizabeth Knight says about to announce record
profits again half of profits half of this year, it's small tax profits again in the second
half of tax and it's done in most other half of this year, it's small places around the world.What about do the banks and other places of the world pass it on? That is the big issue. We have seen a few tweets of people saying other industries have these kind of taxes and they don't pass it on to the customers?I've noticed it's only the Bankers Association that is saying that at the moment and some commentators. The individual bank s are not saying that yet at least. If there is one bank that says it won't pass it on they may get a lot of new customers, it's a reasonably competitive industry in this country and I wouldn't assume that all banks may pass it on it on, that may be cartel behaviour. If one or two Banks don't want to pass it on that could introduce another element of competition.There is no cartel behaviour in our banks! Speak of commentsry the 'Age' editorial on tobacco is worth a read.This is a dichotomy in the comment. The the 'Age' editorial strongly back s the tobacco tax and has a chip at Lance Hockridge for criticising the tax on prince approximate. The 'Age' firm - principle. The 'Age' firmly behinds the tax but the 'Australian' in its editor ial if we look at the - there's a begrudging admission three quarter of the way down that editorial that there may be a good public policy argument for higher tobacco taxes but the other 850 words are getting stuck into Kevin Rudd for making the wrong are getting stuck arguments about it. Actually they trying to dismantle the argument that smoke actually costs the health system.At one point there they say the premature deaths of smoke relieve the burden on health care costs which is a rather extraordinary argument because most people who die of lung cancer have it for a long time causing a heavy cost burden on treatment.And the other costs of lost productivity from someone who dies 33 years too early.We will bring you a cartoon related to that short ly but it's the sort of issue that lends itself to strong comment on either side of the smoke debated.It does: I haven't seen any public health advocates against the tax. I think there is a straight line between successive excise tax increase by both sides of Government for a long time that have contributed to the quiet steep decline in smoking rates in that country.We have had that cartoon as well.This was a bit rough I thought in this cartoon. In the 'Australian' next to the editorial.Kevin Rudd feeding cigarettes to children telling them to go home and tell their parents to buy more cigarettes.Mr Leake!Fascinated to see what you thought of the portrayal of three the 'Age' journalist who were caught hacking into the Labor Party electoral rolls.Yeah, there was a story that was written a couple of years ago. They were tipped off by a local political candidate that the ALP was holding a data base that held personal information about voting intentions of individuals.Three the 'Age' journalist followed up the story and in order to establish the story was true they had to see the data base was there and it worked. So they took a pass word from a contact and looked intra it and found, yes, there were personal details of individuals, sometimes high profile ones there. They have done a really interesting plea bargain. No conviction but they have admitted wrong doing. The magistrate hasn't ordered a conviction. But the reporters have to write a story saying they did the wrong thing and the 'Age' has to publish an editorial. Now theThe 'Herald Sun' editor would have enjoyed writing the headline. The the 'Age' it's buried there on page 12 that reporters avoid conviction.You can barely finds it.It's a serious business, they've avoided conviction but to admit to that conviction but to admit to is -.I think their argument would probably be the more important argument would probably more important principle was establish if the
more important principle was to establish if the ALP more important principle establish if the ALP -And they
were only more important principle was to
establish if the ALP were only testing it.But the law is were law is the law.Not a good look.But not a bad result. They don't suffer a y penalty but a rap over the knuckles.Let's go to sport now and good morning Paul.Good morning. We will go straight to the score card from last night. Australia had a good day on day one at Old fa Trafford. Michael Clarke made a century and Steve Smith might have his chance to make a century on day two. Chris Rogers got the team off to a good start with 84. He played some nice shots and was in quite a hurry right at the top of the order. Shane Watson was just hanging and while Rogers making runs. In the end, Shane Watson couldn't hang around. He was out. Usman Khawaja was given out on that decision and there was no hot spot so really he should have remained at the crease. But he was given out anyway.There were some complaints from the Australians later on. Chris Roger was LBW at 84. So he was denied his century but Michael Clarke played beautifully for his century in the end.A bit scratchy early but got stuck in and looked like the Michael Clarke from 12 months ago when he was dominating the attacks.Good day there for Australia and they will have a chance to build a big first total in the second day's play. James Magnusen has had a night to remember too in the pool at pars Barcelona. He won the GM at the - the gold medal at the 1100 Middle East freestyle.He beat those who piped him in the London Olympics. Cameron McEvoy was fourth. The Australian team of kout kout kout, Kylie palm, Brittany Emsley and Bronte bar at looked like they were going to win gold but in their way was MissY Franklin who outsprinted the field in the final leg of that hear now what James Magnusen had to say after his world championship swim.It was tighter than I would have liked but it's tighter than I would have but it's been a really emotional last 12 months for me after the Olympics and will was a lot of controversy back in Australia. So it was a really emotional swim for me tonight and I think it shows that I've matured a lot over the last year and I think I can put the Olympics behind me now and look forward.And the Brumbies are getting ready to play the chiefs in the final of the super rugby competition. There are the fan s lining up, it's a sell-out in Hamilton. And a lot has been said probably more than ever has been said this year about mis performing football teams and probably not enough said about the Brumbies. Jake White has turned that program around, brought in some key velt rance an he is looking forward to maybe pinching that title off the can Chiefs which will start favourite but of course the Bulls were favourite last week and the Brumbies knocked them over in Pretoria. Kudos to the ACT Brumbies and they're performing brilliantly this year.It should be a good final torp, I think it's 5 o'clock Australian eastern time. Look forward to that.Let's see how you Friday weather is shaping up now. Good morning, Paul.Good morning.

a
We are going to bring you a bit of news about the Boss.Mark Scott?Not our boss.What has he done?Which boss?He probablys the Boss. Bruce Springsteen has been voted as THE best live act in the world.In the world?He he is near ly 60 and considered better than Prince and better than Rolling stone, better than Madonna and Kylie. That is not a bad accolade.I've heard him.Who is your favourite fantastic . I haven't seen concert that you him.Who is your concert that you have ever been
to him.Who is your favourite
concert that you to live?The Wiggles were to live?The Wiggles fantastic!And I fantastic!And of Wiggles concerts over fantastic!And I saw plenty of Wiggles concerts over the
years. of Wiggles concerts over years. We're back after this years. We're back after

This program is not captioned.

This program is not captioned.

And welcome back to ABC News Breakfast this Friday morning. Lovely to have you with us. I'm Beverley O'Connor. Keeping your money in the bank is going to come at a price, the Government wants to put a tax on depositance the banks say they are likely to pass it on to customers. More on that story shortly. Also ahead - Russia has granted Edward Snowden temporary asylum and the White House is not happy. We will look at the diplomatic fallout.And lifting the veil on the Vatican - former Deputy PM Tim Fischer spent three years as Australia's Ambassador to the Holy See. He is has now written a book about his time there and he will join us a little later to tell us about his many experiences.First, though, let's get the news with Michael.And good morning everybody. The Federal Government is set to announce a levy on bank department yits an customers are likely to foot the bill it's proposing a levy of 0.05%s on deposits up to $250,000. It will take effect from 2016.The Government says the money will be used to guarantee the deposits in the event of a bank collapse.Russia has granted temporary asylum to US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden. He has been trapped in a Moscow airport for more than a month and now been taken to a secret location. Mr Snowden is wanted in the United States for leaking information about surveillance programs. The White House says it's extremely disappointed by the decision and may now cancel an upcoming presidential summit between the to countries.The American man who kidnapped, imprisoned and raped three women in his Ohio home over the course of a decade will spend the rest of his life in jail. A judge sentenced Ariel Castro to life without parole on more than 900 charges . In a rambling defence of his actions, Castro told the court he wasn't a monster. One of his victims, Michelle Knight, delivered an emotional statement to the court. She told her captor he will face done.Zimbabwe's Opposition
hell for eternity for what he's

Leader Morgan Tsvangirai has dismissed the country's 39ial election as a huge farce.President Robert Mugabe's party is claiming victory amid claims of serious vote-rigging. Election observers say up to 1 million people were prevented from casting a vote. Mr Mugabe is running for his 7th term as President and his party has denied claims the poll was rigged. Police are seths investigating another shoot ing in Sydney's West. They were called to a house at Eagle Vale after mid-night after reports of gun fire. Several bullet holes were found in the exterior of the house. The police say it appears to be a targeted shooting.Let's go to the markets. Let's get back to that top other
story and the bank Levid and other Government plans to get the budget back to surplus. Our political correspondent Melissa Clarke joins us now from Parliament House.Mel, criticisms comes from left, right and centre regarding new idea to put a tax on
everyone's new idea to put a everyone's departmentits.It's going to - going to - deposits.It's going to affect a lot of people because there to affect because there are many deposit holder as the Bankers Association has pointed out today, anyone today, anyone who has their salary paid into a bank account, that counts as deposit. These are the sorts of accounts that they're talking about having a tax applied to them.Now what the Government is proposing is a 0.05% tax on deposits up to $250,000.So that covers around 99% of the number of deposit accounts that there are.It would be levied on the Banks not on directly on the departmentit holders but it's expected that the bank also pass that on to depositors and if they don't then the burden would fall on shareholders to take a smaller dividend from the banks or on a savings to be made through increased charges to borrowings or other customers. Either way it's coming back to a large pool of the Australian public.Now, this has been an idea that has been pushed by some of Australia's financial regulatory bodies including the financial prudential regularly, the Reserve Bank and the IMF who say that given Australia has up to the up is concerning the way it's done because basically it involves ate Waiting for because basically ate Waiting for a bank to collapse and then having to get money from the collapse and then having to money from the Budget to help bail money from bail it out and give customers their money back. Whereas this system would pre-empt that and have money stashed aside in case there is a banking collapse. However, the bankers association says Australia's financial system is more stable than just about any other in the world. I points out that at the moment Australian depositors have first call on money if a bank is to run into financial difficulty which is not the case in other parts of world.It's a move that is controversial and certainly an interesting one to take a ride in the lead-up to an election. This morning we have seen one of the senior Government Minister s in Tanya Plibersek trying to defend the move, talk about bob bore borrows and Malcolm Turnbull gives us a favour of what the Opposition approach will be.The IMF and other banking institutions have said it's important that we have a strong banking system and this was a gap in our banking system.It's also worth remembering that since we came to Government, the average person who has a $300,000 mortgage is paying $5.500 in less in interest, they have had interest rate rises under the Howard Government and interest rates have dropped $now. If you're look talking an't a small impostlike that it's a good investment.This new tax on bank dessits which is only going to result in deposit ors getting lower sees so that will be a tough on anyone who is a safer or a retiree, but what it's being talked about it that it's a way to fund the deposit guarantee, it but if it's doing that it should be going into a separate es grove fund and not be part of the Government's revern dwlus it can use for all its other expenditures.Mel, this discussion will go on no doubt. Lot s too about some of the other measures the Government might have in mind other than these big ticket items we have heard of in the past few days.We will find out later today what the Government has in mind when they release their economic statement. There is concern within the foreign aid sector that the Government may well again delay its target date for reaching the planned lift in foreign aid to 0.5% of GDP. Now, that is a bipartisan held target but one that's been pushed off in previous budgets in order to save in the order of billions of dlafrs. That may well be the case again. There's certainly concern about that as there is further concern in the public sector about more efficiency dividends and the like. What we do know is that a
the Government will be finding a way to ensure the bookies can still deliver a surplus in 2016-17, Chris Bowen, the new Treasurer, has affirmed that the Government will keep to that schedule although we can expect that the previously projected balanced Budget for 2015-16 financial year now seems highly unlikely given we're talking about tens of billions of dollars in downgraded revenue as we bring in less tax re receipts that had been talked about by Treasury.Let's check out the front Government's plan to front pages of the Friday
newspapers Government's plan to impose that bank y dominates that headlines. The 'Financial Review' says the Government's that bank y dominates the
headlines. The 'Financial risking a major fight with banks of course risking a major fight banks of course on the eve of
an risking a major fight with the
banks of course levy will
an election.The cost of the levy will be passed on to bank deches deps it levy will be passed on deches deps it or s says the 'West deches deps 'West Australian'.That means deches deps it or s customer with $10,000 in savings would customer with $10,000 savings would pay less than 50 cents savings explains
cents a month. The 'Australian' explains that?The 'Courier cents a month. The Mail' cents a month. The 'Australian'
explains Mail' despite describe s explains that?The 'Courier Mail' despite describe s the as a bank hike, targeted to prop up the Federal budget. Kevin Rudd in Greste interesting garb.In other stories the Independent Commission Against Corruption is set engulf another three former NSW Ministers in Ministers in further investigations. The 'Sydney Morning Herald' has that story.The headline of the day has too go to the Sydney Daily Telegraph following Premier Barry O'Farrell's sacking of his Finance Minister Greg you do
Pearce.Can you read that?No, you do it.Aim not going to do it. The 'Advertiser' says South Australians will pay an extra $90,000 a year to fund the disoft Goat's solar rebate scheme.A kitschen knife was eyesed in the alleged stabbing of a man last night.A bikie leader who says he earn s $30,000 is Kell selling his luxury ent house apartment for nearly $2 million.Victorian hospitals are sending sick babies interstate because they are stretched to capacity, that niece the 'Age'.On line, the 'Guardian' Australia reports the US Government has paid around $170 million to a British spy agency in exchange for access to intelligence gathering programs.'The Mercury' tells how a Tasmanian ship builder is trying to broker a deal with the Federal Government to intercept asylum seekers.And Brumby Jack will be cheering on the super rugby side in the Grand Final on Saturday. Go the Brumbies.Yes, indeed. Let's hope they can pull off another super win. You 've been sending us - we have been engulf ed by your thoughts about the bank levy. Lots of comments coming in. The odd angry tweet says it's levy to protect us from them stuffing up, why the banks allowed to pass these levy n s on to customer, it's pure greed. We don't know if they will pass it on.The Bankers Association will say the only consequence is we will pass this on through lower savings deposit rate s for peep who get their income from savings. Pat - banks
should absorb from savings. Pat - should absorb this charge. Profits are high and returns are low. Those self-funded retirees are already suffering.The banks should guarantee their deposit, not the Government. The lev Yi is needed because the Banks don't offer protection to deficitors.If you would like to buy in on this afrtion, we are would love to hear from you.

Our top stories this morning - that bank customers are likely to bear the cost of the Government's plan to impose a levy on deposits. The levy will apply to bank deposit s up to $2 50,000 and will take effect from 2016.The White House says it's disappointed by Russia's decision to grant temporary asylum to Edward Snowden. The fugitive intelligence worker has now gone into hiding after being stranded at a Moscow airport for more than a month.And the man who held three women captive in his Ohio home for a decade will spend the rest of his life in jail. Ariel Castro has been sentenced to life without parole for kidnapping, imprisoning and rape ing the women.More on the fallout from the that proposed bank levy shortly but let's go overseas now. Zimbabwe's PM and Opposition Leader Morgan Tsvangirai dismissed the election as a luge force farce. He says Robert Mugabe's rule has intimidated voters and rigged ballot s:Our conclusion is this has been a huge farce. The credibility of the election has been marred by administrative and legal violations which affect the legitimacy of its outcome.The election does not meet guideline, it is a sham election that does not reflect the will of the people.Morgan Tsvangirai there on that outom. More than two dozen passengers aboard a Qantas flight from become ill
sant ing ao to Sydney have become ill with a gastro bug.Ambulances were called to meet the plane..Qantas flight QF28 arrived here at Sydney Airport from Santiago Chile shortly before 6pm and was met by a fleet of ambulances. Ground staff had been notified that more than 20 people on board the flighted that become ill with diarrhoea and vomiting, similar to what is xefrnsd during a gastroenteritis outbreak. Now those paenks are understood to be a young children, and they are all from the same group. These passengers said they started noticing something was wrong only a few hours into the flight from Chile.We had a group of young travellers from the Melbourne and Sale area who unfortunately were rather sick for the whole entire flight.What a terrible way to end their holiday.It gradually wore through them all as the flight wore on and it was 13 ho hours so it was a very long flight for them.We took their blood pressure to see if they were severe ly de were severe ly de hydrate ed anything and were severe ly de hydrate anything and the they were was a little bit dehigh dlaeted but nothing a little bit dehigh say nothing serious.Qantas staff
say that passengers started showing symptom s on the flight they're symptom s on the flight confident that infection was picked up someone else. Some passengers reported the group told them that one of the boys that was part of the group that became ill had been showing symptoms throughout his stay in South America and had been hospital ides during his trip.Qantas have given out information to all of the other passengers that didn't require medical treatment about gastroenteritis and the plane is currently being quarantined and cleaned.Let's look at the official response issued last night from Qantas. In a statement the airline says -

this morning. Let's
Let's start with this bank levy, why shouldn't the banks absorb a cost like? It's a business cost to secure their own business. TheThe organisement is whether this is necessary at all. This scheme was introduced by PM Rudd as he then was in October 2008.It was at a time when money was actually pouring in to the big Australian banks and there was never any really need for a scheme to protect densits from the possibility of those banks failing.Unlike overseas no bank was too big the fail. The problem was, although this has been little reported that's correct two banks were too Queensland to fail for a Government that at the time was run by querlds, that is Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan. Two Queensland-based banks were leaking deposits and this scheme was essentially introduced to support them rather than the big banks. The history is that no Australian has lost a penny or a cent in a deposit in an Australian bank since the 1890s. And Australia had a highly elf effective informal scheme where if it looked like a smaller bank would be at risk one of the big banks would be prerailed to absorb it. So for example in the 1930s, the then Government savings bank of NSW was absorbed bo into the Commonwealth Bank. Most recently in 1978, the bank of Adelaide was perceived to be at risk and it was absorbed by the ANZ. Those arrangements worked very effectively at no cost to everyone and no-one lost a cent. This scheme was not necessary but the Government introduced one in 2008 and as Penny Wong has said if you're going to have an insurance keem you have to have an insurance premium. If this is to protect depositors as opposed to bank, deposits will probably pay for it. In many ways this is an accounting trick because what the Government is saying is that they're going to take the pro proceeds from the levy and accumulate a fund that will eventually total $15 billion and the revenue from that will be counted towards reduce ing the Budget deficit, it's a bit like the disa-ability heavy, heavy that was introduced in the increase in the May Budget the increase in the Medicare
the May Budget to fund the
heavy that was introduced in disability insurance
scheme,000. the May Budget to fund scheme,000. That is something I
supported at the disability insurance scheme,000. supported at the time, it's a worth supported at worth while prince billion but there's a trick flit. The worth while prince billion Government the there's a trick flit. Government the is introduce ing the increase in the Medicare the increase levy from 1 July next year to levy from 1 fund a program that levy from 1 July next year fund a program that doesn't fund a program start until 1 July 2018 fund a program that doesn't start until 1 July 2018 and the
revenue will reduce the Government deficit. This is another accounting trick in my view.It ice fantastic we have this stable history this stable history when it comes to our banking system but in theory isn't this simply a prudent mesh snu>> you cowl describe it as prudent measure but it's also a necessary one, it's covering a risk that doesn't really need to be covered.But who knows what is to happen in the future is I soez what the Government would argue.They might argue that and all sort of risk managers are ensuring against things which have very low probabilities. What is the probability that someone is going to command eer a plane with a bottle of shaving scream reamYet we have to have these things inspected every time we go through an airport. Should people be given choice whether they want their deposits ensure and if they do they can pay a premium, if they're willing to pay a risk why should the Government force them to have their deposits ensured.I am interested why the business absorb dr we saw the banks being bail uded out in the auk nd now no - in the UK and now no money returned to the public at all when thicks are going well. They make billions and billions of dollar an this is a small cost in the scheme of things why don't they just absorb it?That is a matter for them and it's not one this I can comment on. Perhaps I should say the bank I work for doesn't take retail deposits an is not particular arrangements. In the
case of deposits which don't carry interest - cheque accounts and small balance at all cost they don't carry interest t may not be possible for