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ABC News 24 11am News -

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(generated from captions) This morning - the terrible moment that a train came off the tracks at high speed in Spain, killing at least 80

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Live.The Government warned that its asylum seeker policy could be in breach of international human rights.All the individuals that are there, the conditions appear to be extremely own rouse and harsh.A major search under way in NSW after a 9-month-old baby is kidnapped by his father.And authorities battle to save a humpback whale caught in shark nets off the Queensland Sunshine Coast. you're watching ABC News 24. I'm Joe O'Brien. you're watching ABC News I'm Joe O'Brien. Taking a quick the
look at the weather first in the capital cities around the nation today:

The share market is seeing a flat start to trade following a mixed finish on global markets overnight.Now, just before I get to the story about that Spanish train crash, I will just mention we are waiting for the Defence Minister Stephen Smith to begin a media conference, due to get under way at any moment. He will be stepping up there along with the Indonesian Foreign Minister. That's primarily a media conference about the sale of five C-130 aircraft to Indonesia, but we can also no doubt expect some questions from the media about the continuing asylum seeker challenges facing both nations, so Defence Minister Stephen Smith due to step up shortly in Perth.One of the drivers of the train that derailed in north western Spain yesterday has been put under formal investigation. Official also be looking at all the evidence, including video of the derailment. At least 80 people are now confirmed dead and nearly twice that number are injured.An 8-carriage express train, tossed and turned with such violent force, that some wagons were ripped in two. Since early morning, the cranes have been lifting the wreckage, piece by piece. The investigators have begun their painstaking work and already a theory is emerging. The film we're about to show you is the moment of impact taken by a trackside camera as the train approaches the bend. A warning, it is distressing to watch. you will see that as the train hits the bend, the middle carriages buckle and tip.

Inside were 218 passengers. Some were thrown out of the train as it hit the retaining wall. Their bodies were covered with blankets last night as firemen began a desperate search for survivors, smoke still pouring from one of the upturned carriages. TRANSLATION: The train was going very fast and it derailed as it was going around the corner. It was a disaster. I was very lucky to have survived. I don't dead there are, but there are
many.The train was approaching the cathedral city of Santiago de Compostela. Officials describe the crash site as a difficult bend with a speed limit of 50 miles an hour, but local reports say when trapped driver radioed control room, he trapped driver control room, he told them he control room, had been running at control room, he told them had been running at 120. The service was running 5 minutes late, fuelling one theory they were trying to make up time. 131 survivors were transferred to the local hospitals. Jose told me he was searching for two friends. Three others from the same group are dead. TRANSLATION: I'm here with the daughter of one of my friends who was killed. It's been a long night. The most difficult part is when they bring the news. It's generally bad.The doctors have warned that so serious are some of the injuries they're treating, the death toll currently at 80 will probably rise again.Throughout the day, the families of the dead and the missing have been waiting inside this building for news, with the help of doctors and the Red Cross, and every now and again through these open windows we can hear the screams of despair. It doctors been for some a very long wait. We're told the police are removing clothing and personal effects from the dead and bringing in bringing them to the families up the identification in the hope that they can process.The PM was born in Santiago. On his visit to the site this morning, he declared three days of national mourning. TRANSLATION: At the moment two investigations are being carried out. One is the judicial investigation, and the other one is by the Commission of Investigation of Train Accidents. The aim is to find the causes of this terrible accident accurately and as soon as possible.A state judge has now been appointed to lead the inquiry. Was it human or mechanical error that caused this carnage? It is the driver and the black box recorder that have the answer.That report from the BBC.Australia's Human Rights Commissioner says the Government's asylum deal with Papua New Guinea could be failing our international human rights obligations. Gillian Triggs says she is extremely concerned about comments from the Immigration Minister Tony Burke that he will no longer be the official guardian of unaccompanied children once they rife on Manus Island. She says this breaches the UN convention on the rights of the child.What is does is leave these children without any legal protection at all. It would mean a change in legislation and regulations and, of course, this is a democratically elected government, they are entitled to make changes, but the difficulty is that this almost certainly is in breach of the United Nations convention on the rights of a child, and interestingly, the current legal position is that the minister must take the children's interests as the primary consideration as guardian of these children, so it is a matter of very profound concern to the Human Rights Commission and I believe to most Australians.We've had a longstanding concern about the conditions on remote islands for offshore processing. We completely sympathise and support the Government in its efforts to stop drownings at sea. Of course as a human rights commission, that's of enormous concern to us. But by the same token, we feel as a matter of law and international law, Australia can't really abdicate its responsibilities to asylum seekers, and that by placing them on remote islands, well away from any support, where they appear to be at risk in their health and particularly their mental health, with mandatory and possibly indefinite detention, with very little sign of their claims to asylum seekers being assessed, we obviously have concerns that there are risks that Australia is breaching its fundamental international human rights obligations.Certainly on all the reports we're receiving, I have grave, grave concerns for the conditions of families, children, the young men, the middle-aged women, all of the individuals that are there, the conditions appear to be extremely own rouse and harsh.Gillian Triggs there from the Australian Human Rights Commission. The Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus insists the Government's arrangement with Papua New Guinea complies with Australia's international obligations.It complies
because Papua New because Papua New Guinea is a Convention. That's signatory to the Refugees of course the High Convention. That's very of course the High Court looked
at last of course the High at last year in relation to an arrangement with Malaysia. Malaysia is not a signatory to the Refugees Convention. Papua New Guinea is, and more importantly, has withdrawn its reservations from that convention in relation to people being transferred from Australia. So that's a very important first step. It is a guarantee that the provisions of the Refugees Convention will be complied with.For more, Kerrin Binnie, our political reporter joins us from Canberra. What's the latest on the flow of asylum seeker boats to Australia?Well, Joe, about 700 people all-up now have come to Australia by boat, to Christmas Island from presumably Java in Indonesia, but the boats generally come from Java. Since the Government announced its PNG Solution Friday afternoon, so about a week ago.So, all of those people will be subject, the Government says, to the to being sent to Papua New Guinea, being processed on Papua New Guinea and if they are settled, settled in Papua New Guinea. So it hasn't quite yet stemmed the flow of boats, but you will remember Kevin Rudd last Friday and subsequently him and other senior ministers involved in this portfolio area have been saying that the boats wouldn't stop immediately and that the people smugglers would test the Government's resolve. Now, the Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare, on the Nine Network this morning was saying that information from on the ground in Indonesia is that the people smugglers are telling potential asylum seeker s that - well, basically lies to get them to get on boats and head towards Christmas Island. The latest reports I've got are that people smugglers are telling people in Indonesia now and remember you've got thousands of people in Indonesia who have bought tickets already, they're saying, "Get on a boat now before the first plane guess to PNG. This won't go through the Parliament, it the High Court." Every lie you can think of is now being told to encourage people to get onto boats. They are pushing to encourage people to get boats. They are pushing people onto boats because they make a million dollars a boat and sometimes more.Jason Clare, Home Affairs Minister speaking on commercial TV this morning. We still haven't got a date on the election and one of the things that comes into play is the things that comes into the costings. What's the latest on that front?Yes, always a debate on how much costings are and whether they're afford bility or not affordable. Joe Hockey was on AM radio this morning essentially being questioned about when the Coalition would release its policy costings. The Shadow Treasurer Hockey o'clock did say in the next few week he would release them or the Coalition would release their costings, but there is also a statement that is put out about 10 days after the writs are issued for the election, and that is an independent summary, I guess you could say, of the budget position by Treasury, so Joe Hockey was asked if he trusts those figures on radio this morning and he said he won't be, and that he is looking towards other sources like figures from state governments, figures from the parliamently Budget Office and figures from independent advisers to try to put together those figures. Let's have a listen to what Tony Abbott the Opposition Leader had had to say about Joe Hockey's comments this morning . Well, Joe was making the point that figures from this government have never turned out to be true - never, never, never. Starting from their very first budget, when they promised, I think, a $22 billion surplus and they ended up bringing in a $30 billion or thereabouts deficit, and from there on they've given us the five biggest deficits in Australian history.Tony Abbott speaking there in Launceston this morning. Kerrin, are we likely to hear from Kevin Rudd at all today, as far as you know?I do believe the PM is heading towards Perth today. I'm not sure exactly of his movements, but speaking of Perth, we are expecting a media conference which you previewed earlier from Stephen Smith, so I'm not sure whether Kevin Rudd will turn up at this event, but he is certainly flying to Perth today and you would expect he would be doing some media at some stage.Thanks, Kerrin Binnie from Canberra. We have the 'Australia Votes' website and it has a really good rundown of the policies in all the different areas and they're comparing them between the two parties, or a list of what their policies are. The best way to find it is just to type in "'Australia Votes'" in your search engine, but go to the ABC version. There is another 'Australia Votes' website, but take a look at the ABC one.A large-scale land and air search is under way on Sydney's southern outskirts for a baby kidnapped by his father overnight. Officers have now found the car they were looking for. It was abandoned on Avon Dam Road at Bargo. No-one was found in or near the car. Police say the 8-month-old and his 16-year-old mother were abdugtded by the girl's ex-boyfriend at Chester Hill last night. The 24-year-old man drove off with him before punching the girl and letting her out. Police helicopters, specialist officers, the Dog Squad and royal fire volunteers are searching the bush. Anyone with information is urged to call triple-0.Rescue teams trying to free call triple-0.Rescue teams are trying in shark trying to free a whale in shark nets off Queensland's Sunshine Coast. in shark nets off Sunshine Coast. The hamp back Sunshine is caught in netting near Noosa's Main Beach. Officers say the animal appears to be in good health and the rescue will be straightforward. Police are investigating an ex-plos at a house at Ipswich, just to the west of Brisbane. Two men were injured in the blast. One remains in intensive care with sear yos hand injuries. The Bomb Squad spent the night examining chemicals found on the property.A situation was declared under the preservation Act. At the present stage, our Bomb Squad and scientific officers are here, sampling the prod duketed that has been located within the residence and also out in the yard of the residence.Hundreds of workers at Holden's Elizabeth plant in Adelaide will clock off for the last time today. 400 workers have opted to accept a redundancy package. Holden has reduced its workforce to 1700 people and the Federal Government is currently in talks with the company about future financial assistance.We might cross to Perth because the Defence Minister Stephen Smith has just stepped up for that media conference. Alongside him is the Indonesian Foreign Minister and also looks like the chief of Defence, General David Hurley as well. The minister's advisory announces that this is a press conference to witness the signing, and so it appears that they're going ahead with this signing process first, so this is the ministers Smith and Purnomo Yusgiantoro, and David Hurley there as Purnomo Yusgiantoro, and Hurley there as well. It is Hurley there as well. It is a second annual Australia-Indonesia Defence ministers meeting and at this meeting they've organised this signing ceremony. This is a memorandum of sale that sets out the arrangements for the sale of five C-130 aircraft to Indonesia, and you can just see the ministers sitting down there and presumably they will be stepping up for some questions after this, and as well as some questions on the C-130 aircraft, we can probably expect some questions to the ministers about the asylum seeker policy as well. There has been a lot of talk about that in the last couple of days since the Rudd Government announced changes to Australia's asylum seeker policy with any asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat being taken to Papua New Guinea and Manus Island in particular, and the capacity on Manus Island being increased significantly from several hundred at the moment to more than 3,000, and there was some radio stories this morning mentioning that Indonesia had expressed some concern that Australia had not notified Indonesia ahead of that announcement about the changes to asylum seeker policy on Friday. Yes, so we can probably expect some questions along those lines as well.Here is the Australian Defence Minister Stephen Smith and Indonesian Defence Minister.Thanks very much for turning up. Can I officially welcome Indonesia's Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro to Australia and to Perth. Purnomo Yusgiantoro leads a very high-level delegation from Indonesia, including Admiral Lupus who has just signed with General Hurley the agreement for the sale of five C-130 Hs to Indonesia, and I will come back to that. Also the chief of the air force, air advice marshal Dunia, and so we welcome the Indonesian delegation. PucPurnomo arrived with the delegation on Wednesday, and I greeted him at the airport on Wednesday and we had an extensive day at Perth, starting off in Henderson being done at the delegation saw the work being done at BAE's shipyard on being done at our frigates, Enns being done at BAE's shipyard our frigates, Enns Hansing the our frigates, radar and combat capability of our prig radar and combat capability our prig gats, and also at our prig gats, and also Henderson, saw some of the maintenance Henderson, saw some maintenance work on our submarines, and then to havms Stirling, a delegation to there to see the counter-terrorism work. Then to the SAS in Swanbourne for a briefing from our Special Forces. A wreath laying yesterday at the State war memorial at Kings Park and last night an official dinner. Today we have a formal Indonesia-Australia Defence ministers dialogue. This is the second of what is second of what is now an annual Defence Ministers' dialogue and adds to the architecture that ee see in the Defenceo Defence, military-to-military architecture between Australia
and Indonesia. Two plus two meeting between Australian and Indonesian foreign and defence ministers. The annual meeting now between our PM and knee's President, the first of which we saw in Darwin last year, and the second in Jakarta in the last month or so.And earlier this year, in Jakarta, we conducted the second so-called two plus two meeting.The by lat Wal relationship between Australia and Indonesia is of course very important, but it's also at a very strong and high level, both generally, but also in the military-to-military and defence-to-defence area. The modern relationship is laid out by the Lombok Treaty which came into force in this room in January 2008 when I signed the Lombok trooetty with then Indonesian Foreign Minister Wariata, and pursuant to the Lombok Treaty in 2000 the, we entered into a memorandum of understandings, so far as defence and national security understandings, so far cooperation was defence cooperation was concerned. And since then we have enhanced our practical cooperation between Australia and Indonesia on the military-to-to military and defence-to-defence front. As a result of the discussions we've had in the course of yesterday and Wednesday, there are a range of areas where we will formally agree today to enhance our practical cooperation.Firstly in the area of peacekeeping. This is very significant. Indonesia makes a substantial contribution to United Nations peacekeeping, some 1900 Indonesian peacekeepers take part under the UN flag, and Australia is in the top 12 contributors to United Nations peacekeeping.Historically, Australia prides itself as having the first boots on the ground under a United Nations mandate when courtesy of the United Nations Committee, we intervened in Indonesia and separated the fledgling Indonesian forces from the then Dutch forces a sissed in the repatriation of the Dutch which helped see the establishment of Indonesia as a Republic. We've agreed to enhance our practical cooperation on United Nations peacekeeping, including with a view in due course to the potential for end-betting peace, embeds peace Keimers in contribution to United Nations. Secondly one of the modern challenges - cyber security. We both acknowledge that cyber security is a challenge for us and we've agreed to commence and subsequently enhance our cooperation and exchange of information on cyber security.Thirdly, we've agreed to enhance our strategic analysis and strategic communications and strategic exchanges. This will first be reflected by Indonesia's briefing of Australia on the preparation of Indonesia's white paper. When our white paper was published in May of this year, we had previously agreed with Mr Purnomo that he and his officials would be briefed as the white paper commenced and would be briefed fully before its publication, and that was a very good process. PucPurnomo and the delegations have agreed to the extent of Indonesia's white paper, but we will expand that to other areas of strategic analysis and strategic cooperation. We're also proposing to enhance the work that proposing to enhance the that we do together on particularly in capability. This is
particularly in the lessons learned for
acquisition, lessons learned for acquisition, maintenance,
sustainment,

sustainment, and acquisition, sustainment, and we will have exchanges of officers in our exchanges of officers in respective defence organisations, particularly organisations, Defence Materiel and the Indonesian equivalent. Finally as a result of our visit to HMAS 'Stirling' and Henderson, we've agreed there is collaboration we can do for less ons learnt for maintenance and sustainment of submarines. Indonesia is currently in the process of acquiring up process of acquiring up to five submarines in conjunction with Korea. We of course have the Collins Class submarine and we have taken a range of steps in recent years to enhance the maintenance and sustainment of the Collins Class submarine to get greater availability and greater time in the water itself, so we've greed that there are lessons that we can share on submarine maintenance and sustainment and importantly, we've also agreed to facilitate Indonesia's access to our submarine rescue facilities at HMAS 'Stirling'. So cooperation on submarine maintenance and sustainment, experiences and lessons learnt, but also collaboration on submarine rescue. So they are five areas which we've agreed in the course of our conversations over the last 24 hours or so to add to the already extensive cooperation that we see with Indonesia.And we will formally do that at the formal bilateral meeting later this morning.So, to you and your delegation, can I thank you for visiting Perth. It is not the first It is not the first time Purnomo has come to Perth prior to becoming defence minister. He was previously energy and Mining Minister, so in that context he has visited Perth, but first visit as Defence Minister. Our third or fourth meeting this year and 9th or 10th meeting overall, so it reflects the strength of relationship and the importance of the defence-to-defence collaboration so far as Indonesia and Australia is concerned and indeed it is a good example of what the white paper, Australia's Defence white paper 2013 describes as the importance of the relationship between Australia and Indonesia, indeed Indonesia being Australia's most important relationship in our immediate region. So, again welcome. Thank you for coming with your delegation and I would like you to make some remarks.Thank you, Minister

remarks.Thank you, Minister
Smith.But I am shorter than him rg so you will not see me fully. First of all I would like to thank Minister Smith for the very good hospitality here in Perth. I would also like thankses to the Government of Australia, we just signing the five sale of the C-130 H. That is the C-130 H that was granted to Indonesia. So total of nine C-130 H will be very, very benefit to us, to Indonesia, since we have a lot of natural disaster in our country. As you know, we did have natural disaster such as tsunami, earthquakes, flood ing, volcanic eruption that needs the transportation from point to point to bring the logistics, to bring the people, you know, for the rescue operation. That's the reason I bring with me, also accompany me the chief of our force, Mr Pudidato, because I know that air force is very important in your country. Whenever a natural disaster happen in our country, then usually the military come in first into the rescue, and so with that I would like to appreciate really Minister Smith, the Government of Australia and all of you, the Australian people that really pay attention to our country.Secondly I would like to stress is on bilateral cooperation, defence-to-defence. It has been very strong and top peak of relation between Australia and Indonesia. I've been talking to Minister Smith, not only meeting, by also by phone. If it's something, then I just grab up the phone and talk to him and he call me. people-to-people contact here him and he call me. So really is very is very important, and we put that in our, not only us, but our staff, it's very strong, so I believe in the future, the cooperation, the relationship between Indonesia and Australia is becoming enhancing, and stronger, especially in defence-to-defence. We have one philosophy, that if the cooperation relationship between Australia and Indonesia is strong, the economy and security, mainly in defence, then both countries can get mutual benefits from this cooperation.He so a lot of achievement we have been making so far between Australia and Indonesia. For instance, the openness between the two countries, Australia sharing the white paper. What paper is the strategy policy of defence, that before was discussed with us before finally published officially by Australian Government, and also Indonesia in return also doing that way. So we are planning now to have a consultation with Australian Government, especially with Minister of Defence under white papers, because I think then we open together, the assets we have, what proposal our modernisation, even if our country in the middle of modernisation of armed forces. Since for 15 years, the armed forces has not been able to be modernised because of the
economy modernised because economy problem that resulted from the economic crisis back in 1998. from the in 1998.I would like to touch on what Minister Smith just mentioned, the cooperations in the Special Forces because yesterday I visit ed, and I talk with them and I was so happy because of some of them speak bass 15 Indonesia, some of them very fluently speak Bass 15 Indonesia. Even the lastBsh bsh speak Bahasa Indonesia.What I would like to get in. When I say it's plus, it's plus 8 countries, so total of 18 countries. We will have the joint exercise together in late September in Jakarta, about one hour from Jakarta to the south. There will be 18 countries together Special Forces. So you can imagine that 18 countries' Special Forces, including Australia, will be there and to work together to how then we cope, tackle the counter-terrorisms. There will be the our two countries, plus China, Russia, Japan, US, Australia, New Zealand, together there, and we hope to be success, so we would like to have your support in this case to see that this counter-terrorism exercise will be working very well.The defence-to-defence cooperation mainly that yesterday also Minister Smith mentioned to you, that we visited several defence industrial complexes, and what I wish to do with Mr Smith is how then we can work together in defence industries. So if we can start the different industries, work together in our recruitment, that would be very strong since as we are already cooperating with the PE system and I just recognised yesterday that I face the PE system, working with your defence ministry on the frigate, so if we can work together, then for us that will save our time, save our costs because we don't have to go far away to the UK, we can just come to Australia, and in return that Australia will also give service to us, to the armed forces. So this kind of cooperation I think hopefully can be moved forward in the future.And to follow-up on the bilateral consultations, we hope that Minister Smith mentioned five areas of cooperation. I will not repeat it one by one. What I would like to share with you is one regarding the cyber defence, regarding the cyber the Indonesian developing cyber the Indonesian defence. We are developing defence. We information system and that covered by one of the sections in the cyber defence, and also in the cyber defence, and in the communication, satellite communication for us then to make our cyber defence hopefully progressing very well. The peacekeeping operation in Indonesia now has about 1800 troops all over the world and we do discuss with Minister Smith on how we can work together, because our ambition in the future is to increase, to become one those in the UN flag for peacekeeping operation. We are going to keep our peacekeeping operation troops for peace of the world, to 4,000 people.And then for the white papers, we are not in the - we are now in the progress of finalising the white papers and soon we will be consulting with Australia also in this case. With capability, Minister Smith mentioned to you before and in the submarines, you know, yesterday we were also visiting the Collins submarine, also visiting the camp and we are seeking now how we can cooperate together since Australia is ahead of us in submarine technology. So with that then, I will stop here and listen from you. I will comment on listen from you. I on this.REPORTER: (Inaudible) can I ask you about asylum seekers which is very topical at the moment. Are you happy that Indonesia was consulted about Australia's plan to send asylum seekers to PNG before it was announced by our PM Kevin Rudd?Well, we know that Australia and PNG and also with Nauru have the bilateral cooperation to see how you can solve the asylum seekers, but really that is the bilateral cooperation between you and PNG and you and Nauru. We leave that to your bilateral cooperation with them. With Indonesia itself, the PM Kevin Rudd had the bilateral consultation with our President on July 5th and that was a really beautiful meeting by them, so we appreciate that.REPORTER: Are you happy with that plan, sir?Which plan?The plan for Australia to send asylum seekers coming via Indonesia to Papua New Guinea?Well, really between you and Papua New Guinea, between you and Nauru. That's your bilateral cooperation. Whatever you do, that's your bilateral cooperation. That's your policy, you know. What I like to see is the strong bilateral cooperation between Indonesia and Australia, mainly.REPORTER: Sir, do you think that more could be done to try and stop people losing their lives at sea? Do you think there could be more cooperation or better cooperation between Australia and Indonesia to try to stop people dying at sea, or Dow think enough is already happening?I have to mention to you that this year itself from January to July 2013, 53 cooperation, joint operations together, between SAR Indonesia, search and rescue Indonesia and AMSA, 52 times to do the joint operations together on the high seas to rescue the - I call it illegal movement of people. So I think this express how then we work together between Australia and Indonesia. The second thing, you know, you did not realise that we have our officials in Canberra in the RCC, in the Rescue Control Coordination Centre, under the umbrella of AMSA, and also your people in our office, both of them have very good liaison, how they community how that happens, regarding this illegal movement of regarding of peoples, and the third, you of peoples, and the know, day-to-day information know, has also know, day-to-day has also been communicating together has also been together between those two organisation. So I think together between those two organisation. So I think the progress organisation. So I progress is very good in case.REPORTER: The Leader of
the Opposition has suggested a policy called Operation Sovereign Borders and one of those key policy angles is to turn boats around when it is safe to do so. That's what Tony Abbott the Opposition Leader says. Do you support turning boats around and do you think it is a good idea, this new policy of Tony Abbott's?Well, I would like to refer to July 5th bilateral cooperation between both leaders, PM Kevin Rudd and President SBY at the time. One of the good result I have to mention to you - two things was discussed in that meeting. One is beef. The first B is beefThe second B is boat people. On boat people, both leaders agree that we are going to have a spatial conference and hopefully it will be done, be held in Jakarta on 20th August. The spatial conference is on irregular movement of people. What we are going to do is invite, invitation already is invite, sent over to the one, so the origin countries. Among them is five origin countries. five origin countries - Iran, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar and the other is Bangladesh - Sri Lanka, yes. Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and also the transit countries - Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, and also the country of final destination, quote and unquote, Australia and New Zealand, and also the international organisations like United Nations High Commission on refugees. We are going to have that meeting, planned to be held in Jakarta and we hope with this meeting then we will find very good solutions to how we solve this thing. REPORTER: But, if, say, for instance the boats keep coming and the Opposition, Tony Abbott he takes power in Australia and turning asylum seeker boats back into she Shan waters. You are Defence Minister, how is the Indonesian Navy or Indonesian Government going to respond to have these boats sent back into Indonesian waters?I would like to present to you how big is our country and two-third of our country is water and many people water country doing the - moving from island to island by small boat, like what you see, you have problem with asylum seekers.We have 17,000 islands. Not many of them having a plane, not many of them having a big boat, a nice boat they can transfer. Some of them are also using small boat and some of them because of the big wave also have a problem, and some of them need rescue. Some of them need the Navy to rescue them. So one problem. The second problem we also have illegal logging. You can easily bring logging out of the country and sold it to the international community. We also have illegal fishing. There is fishermen outside the country coming to Indonesia and stealing our fish. We have quote, unquote, South China Sea. We have to intense our patrol in South China Sea because our South China Sea is very close to the South China Sea that you also recognise the problem.So nowing that we have a big country, having two-third of our country with water, some people moving from island to island that sometimes they get a problem, and they need the search and rescue operation, too, they need the Navy. On the other side, our assets are limited. We are not really the rich country. Our Navy also is limited. Our power, our assets is limited. Some of them, yes, we deploy to the southern part of Java island to the western of Java island to part of Sumatra where part of Sumatra where the asylum seekers are travelling, asylum seekers but you can imagine the but you coastline from but you can coastline from Sumatra to Java to Long, up in front, it's to long, it's to Long, up in front, long, it's long.REPORTER: Are you saying it's long, it's long.REPORTER: you saying it's not practical
and you saying it's and it's not safe to turn boats and it's not to turn boats back, that is should not be done? Is that what you are saying?I think being countries, being neighbour, Australia and Indonesia, having a very good relation today, I think we should talk, we should discuss, we should consult each other. Like, it was happened in Bogor on July 5thSo don't turn the boats back?Well, we will talk. We don't want - if you don't want to do it also to your neighbour, that what you do will make your neighbour unhappy. I mean, you want to sit down with them, see some kind of solutionREPORTER: So can I just confirm you said, "We don't want that." ?I said we don't want it. I said let's talk and sit down but we don't want to see unilateral action. REPORTER: Do you, out of curiosity, as the Defence Minister for your country, do you have a preference in the different plans that have been put forward by the Labor Government or the Liberal Opposition? Do you think there is a better option in your opinion, sending asylum seekers to PNG or turning the boats back to Indonesia? Which would be your preference?Well, really, we don't want to involve in the domestic policy issue in your country.REPORTER: But it involves your country, though?We do, but now the relationship is good. Now you have a Government of Australia, the official Government of Australia and we also have the President SBY, the Minister of Defence, me, and what we are keeping the policy is the policy that we have after the two leaders' meeting in Bogo ro,. That's the two policies to work together, to have spatial conference on illegal movement of people.REPORTER: Is Indonesia concerned at all about the Opposition's plan to use the military specifically to help protect borders against these boats?I have to be frank with you that I don't follow the domestic politics of the domestic politics AustraliaI know that my counterpart is Minister Smith, I talk with him.. We are keeping track with the government-to-government relations so far.You've done very well. (LAUGHTER) .I was almost about to remind them that they should be civilised and dignified with our overseas guests and not lean to the side of cross-examination. Could I just make a couple of remarks. Firstly, - thanks.The first question, Foreign Minister Carr I think has already put on the regard in the last few days that he briefed Indonesian Foreign Minister Natalegawa in general terms about the proposed arrangement between Australia and PNG. That's the first thing. Secondly, on the question about can we do more on search and rescue, you might recall that in 2012, from memory September 2012, then Transport Minister, now deputy Minister and Transport Ministeral ban knee, Home Affairs Minister Clare and I went to Indonesia, met with Purnomo Yusgiantoro and ministerial colleagues and AMSA then agreed with Basana to enhance their day-to-day cooperation and collaboration. That saw Transport Minister Albanese announce before the end of 2012 a $35 million package to help enhance the capability of Banasa and we now see the exchange of officers in AMSA officers and advice 15 versa. We have enhanced communication, email, phone and fax. BAHANSA has fax. that, and enhancement on that and that's ongoing. The final question I will make about Mr Abbott's is announcement yet and I'm in front of international guests so I will be diplomatic and polite, but I will simply make this point: After six months of saying he will stop the boats, the Opposition's policy is changing the policy from a 2-star to a 3-star. That's all it is. So having said for six years, "I will stop the boats." The solution is to change a 2-star to a 3-star. REPORTER: Do you think this plan, minister, will adversely affect what is a good relationship between Australia and Indonesia?Well, it is the proposal in terms of a military 3-star being in charge of border Command is a change from the current arrangements where a 2-star is in charge ever border Command and weir where into Border Command go all the expertise, intelligence and advice from all of the relevant national security, defence and intelligence agencies.REPORTER: Do you think PNG was rattled by the plan, that looked stronger, tougher...Well, as I understand Mr Abbott's remarks yesterday, he essentially said , "Here after six years of
think something , "Here after think something my plan to stop
the , "Here after six years of think something substitute a the boats. I'm going substitute a 2-star with a 3-star." He then went on 3-star." He then went on to say, "And so far as PNG is say, "And concerned, I agree with say, "And so far as PNG concerned, I agree with that." concerned, I I think that's what he was I think that's what he trying to say (Inaudible) what are you going to do as (Inaudible) what are you to do as a government if it doesn't (Inaudible) what are you going
to do doesn't stop the boats? It to do as a government if it hasn't stopped them so doesn't stop the boats? far?Well, we have an arrangement far?Well, we have entered into an arrangement with Papua New
Guinea an arrangement Guinea to process asylum seekers who come to Australia in Papua New Guinea and then Papua New Guinea has agreed to seekers in Papua New Guinea. Our analysis is that that will break the people smugglers' model, that will break the cycle and that will stop the flow of boats coming, and as Immigration Minister Burke has made clear, we always expected that it would take a number of weeks to get all of those processes up and running, that has started in Manus Island, Defence is making its contribution to that, as it has historically, on these issues, either the use of naval or air force assets, or construction engineering:OK. Everyone happy? Thanks very much.That was live from Perth - actually taking one more question.Well, with respect to matters of surplus, my very strong advice is you should speak to the Treasurer. Thanks.Go to the relevant minister. Yes. So that was live from Perth. Defence Minister Stephen Smith and Indonesian Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro, they have been taking part in the Defence ministers meeting. The Indonesian Defence didn't express any concern about not being notified before last week's announcement about the change in asylum seeker policy. They're calling it the pray day loans plan, a bold move by the Church of England to take on short-term lenders at their own game. The Archbishop of Canterbury says he intends to put one of the key players in Britain's payday loan P- businesses out of business. Barbara Miller reports.Now the head of the Anglican Church want to take on the money lenders in their own game. In his sights, one of the biggest players in the market, Wonga. The Archbishop of Canterbury wants to offer church services to not-for-profit lenders. He has told the company 's head:

What's happening in What's happening in our
parish is that people What's happening parish is that people are being
- there is profiteering off the backs - there backs of the poor and it's absolutely morally disgraceful what's going on, sore the idea that the Church steps in and does that is exactly what Church should be doing.Wonga says what's forgotten is that the reason people use its service is because they like it and it is transparent. If I want to borrow £100 for one month, I slide this bar along and it tells me how much I need to pay back. One click and I'm on my way.Wonga boasts that the whole process takes just 15 minutes.I'm a decisive person, but would I really want to make a decision about taking out a high-interest loan in 15 minutes? I'm not sure that's all that responsible.This customer has no complaintsThey've always given me within 15, 20 minutes, always the sum I've asked for, no quibbling, so very positive experience so far.Wonga say it is welcomes the competition, and competing with this could be one almighty challenge.Time now for sport with Sacha Mirzabegian. The Wallabies Squad has been named for the rugby Championships.No surprises. Quade Cooper is set to return to international rugby after being including in the 40-man squad. The team was just named by Ewen McKenzie, including 10 uncapped players, including Bernard Foley from the Waratahs and Tamerlan, with the next step on August 17th. Six-time Olympic sprint champion Usain Bolt wants to help restore faith in the sport by failed drug tests by fellow athletes. American Tyson Gaye and Asafa Powell. Bolt says the news came as a shock. I didn't want to bombard him with questions. I told him I'm sorry to hear what is going on. He said, "Yes, it's rough, it's hard." I told him to stay strong and stay focused and everything will work out. There is a lot of details left to be discussed so I'm sitting and waiting to see the results and there are a lot of things that haven't been said or done yet, so waiting to see what's going on. If you have been following me since 2002, you know I've been doing phenomenal things since 15. I was the youngest person to win the World juniors at 15, ran the world junior record in 1993 at 18. World record at 17. I've broken every record there is to break in every event that I've ever done. So for me I've proven myself since I was 15.In soccer, Japan has beaten Australia 3-2 in a rain-soaked East Asian Cup clash in Seoul. Japan scored the first goal in the 25th minute. The Blue Samurai dobled its lead just before the one-hour mark, but in a frantic patch of scoring, Australia was back on level terms in a matter of minutes. Mitchell Duke scored the first before Tom Juric, but only a matter of minutes before Japan scored the sealer.Tony Williams will play his 100th NRL game tonight. Williams made his debut with the ools before joining the Bulldogs this season. returns from suspension. The season. Mitchell aul good returns Cowboys returns from suspension. Cowboys are hosting the Brisbane Broncos in the Queensland Derby in Townsville. In Queensland Derby in In AFL, Lance Franklin believes his injury setback has given him the ideal freshen-up against Essendon tonight. The match is on the Docklands, with Franklin to return from a knee injury and David returns from injury for the Dockers and Dan Dan her for the top-of-the-table clash. That's all in sport.Go Buddy! Time for the latest weather with Paul Higgins.

Well, a few showers for Queensland's east coast today:

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Hello, I'm Ros Childs. Welcome to this national edition of ABC News. Hume rights agencies question the legal status of the Manus Island deal.The Minister must take the children's interest as the primary consideration as guardian of these children.400 Holden employees work their last shift as the car maker warns of more pain ahead. The AFL chief denies tipping Essendon off about the investigation into doping allegations. And science meets astrology. Do full moons disturb a goodnight's sleep?

The Government has been