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Hello welcome to the concon-I am Peter van Onselen. Thanks for your company. Is Tony Abbott a sexist or is Julia Gillard a hypocrite? Perhaps both of them have a little bit of blame to share on that particular debate. That will be the primary focus of today's episode of the Contrarians we will be taking a look at some of the policy issues swirls around including the state of the economy and the dependence on the economies run the world which seeming to a little bit on the brink. We will take a look at the vice presidential debate who won and perhaps why. All of that coming up shortly but let's take a look what's making news.10 years on from the horror of the Bali bombings hundreds of people have gathered for a moving service in Kuta to honour the memory of the 202 lives lost. Foreign and Australian dignitaries joined the families and friends of those killed in the attacks, and those who survived for a multi--faith service. Ahron Young is in Bali and has our report.United in grief brought together in sorrow. Thousands of people from different countries and different faiths in Bali again to remember the victims.We are united against terrorism.And refuse to be intimidated even when confronted by such great loss.Community leaders led 202 candles on behalf of the different faiths touched by this tragedy. Speaking on behalf of the families whose lives were torn, father Danny Hanley recalled the night terrorists took his two daughters.She was one of the first to lose her life, my youngest daughter Simo in e was already inside the club -- Simone was already inside the club and was the last Australian to die after spending 58 days in Perth hospital's burns unit.A photo board of Australian faces, whose lives were lost. Prime Minister Julia Gillard reflected on the mothers and children the husbands and wives left behind.That will always divide your lives into two halves, before Bali and after Bali.The Prime Minister remarked on the cowardly acts of terrorism.On September 11 terrorists attacked the great symbols of American prestige, here in Bali they attacked our people and through them sought to overwhelm our values.For John Howard the anniversary reminded him of the struggles that followed the Bali blasts.That terrible night and the days that followed tested the character of our nation, Australia. And it passed that character test with flying colours.The governor of Bali who was chief of police here 10 years ago spoke on behalf of a community still recovering.The loss is not just giving us grief, it is also give us the strength to fight terrorism and all other extreme activities. We do not condemn a certain religion, we condemn those people who has done brutal violence in the name of religion.Following the ceremony the Prime Minister revealed she had been here in Bali 10 years ago, and returned to Australia just one day before the terror attacks. For many this was a deeply emotional ceremony, for some it was a chance for closure for others it was a reminder of a very difficult 10 year journey. SINGS: # look for the sun # Through the rain # # 10 long years bus always with us the victims of the ball -- but always with us the victims of the Bali bombings.Back home cities and towns across the country, thousands have paused to mark the 10th anniversary of the attacks. In Canberra survivors and families of the victims joined dignitary s at Parliament House for the natural memorial service. Australian of the Year, Dr Fiona Wood gave an emotional tribute for her memories of treating the wounded.In the great hall of Parliament House grout sero.The unbearable pain and -- great sorrow.Unbearable pain and grief that pierced ore hearts 10 years ago.The national memorial service to remember the day terrorism hit Australia in a town land.They took many leaves -- in a foreign land.They took many lives but failed in their mission. Australian refused to be cowered returning to Bali in the hundreds of thousands.While we feel grief and sadness for the tragic loss we give joyful thanks for the lives they led and the love they shared. Just as it was a day of rans it was a day of sol -- remembrance it was a day of solidarity with the closest neighbours.10 years on the pain of the loss still remains and we will remember them forever.

Dr Fiona Wood treated many Australian survivors who returned from their dream holidays with nightmarish burns and other injuries. Her tribute left barely a dry eye.I remember one patient a tri-athlete a young woman whose injuries were beyond comprehension, and she first thing she said when she came out of the coma was I will never run, will I walk again. I said you will walk, you will run, you will race. And in 2008 she beat me in an Ironman.Also here today, representatives from the embassies of the 22 nations that also lost loved ones. That night 10 years ago.In Coogee hundreds gathered at the Bali memorial at Dolphin Point, 20 of the victims were from Sydney's eastern suburbs.Some people have nightmares and wake up relieved that it was just a dream. I have the reverse. I dream that David is still around and what happened was a nightmare Candles also burned at dawn in Perth. For the 16 lost in western Australia.It was a senseless and krum and brutal act..Cruel and brutal act but I think it also meant a loss of innocence.Around the country there were many smaller memorials no less significant to mark the anniversary of a day that can't be forgotten. And you can see full replays of today's services in Bali and in Canberra on Australia's public affairs channel, that's tonight from 8. Eastern daylight time on A-PAC, channel 648.To the US election race, and two vice presidential candidates have clashed in a fiery debate today. Incumbent Joe Biden was on the attack accusing his opponent Paul Ryan of being dishonest through the encounter. David Speers filed this report.The ruckmans have enjoyed a remarkable surge since Mitt Romney's victory over Barack Obama in the first presidential debate, so Joe Biden knew that and came out swings in tonight's vice presidential debate. Historically these VP debates don't have much of an impact on the Jo all momentum of a campaign, this one could be significant. If it does halt that surge in support for the Romney ticket. Now Joe Biden was feisty he was aggressive, have a look at this encounter.7.4 million seniors projected to lose the current Medicare advantage coverage they have that's a 3200 benefit cut.That did not... What we are saying...Thee are from your own... More people signed up for med car advantage after the change.What they are saying... Nobody is...Mr Vice president dent. I know you are under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground.(LAUGHS).I think people will be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other.They clashed on tax.Cut taxes by 20%... Not mathematically possibleIt is possible. It has been done before. It is what we are are proposing.It has never been done buff.It has been done a couple of times.Jack Kennedy, Ronald Regan.Now are you Jack Kennedy.While Joe Biden was on the attack Paul Ryan was no slouch either. He is a 7 term Congressman and carries strong policy credentials and he had a big job to not only attack the Obama administration but to build his own credentials for a potential future run at the top job. In the end hard to score a clear winner but Democrats were certainly a whole lot happier with the more aggressive approach from the vice presidential tonight.And can you watch the debate in full replaying now on Sky News multi-view, just press red and look for the dedicated channel. NSW and ACT have been hit by a cold snap with the cold weather bringing snow flows and plummeting tempers.The blue mountains the temperature job dropped to below freezing and the heaviest snow fall in several years. The Great Western Highway has been closed in both directions at Wentworth falls. In the Snowy mountains two teenagers were rescued after activating an emergency beon. In Sydney the city is being lashed by heavy rain and strong wind which is the Bureau of Meteorology says will ease later this evening. ANZ borrowers have been granted some mortgage relief, 10 days after the Reserve Bank slashed official interest rates. The 0.2% cut brings the variable rate to 6.6%.Other major lenders reduced their mortgage rates last week, but failed to pass on the full 0.25% cut. ANZ has also warned its costs are increasing as the banks battle to attract deposits. South Australian Greens MP Tammy Franks has apologised outside aelgt Magistrates Court for failing to lox tax returns for a dick -- lodge tax return -- lodge tax returns for a decade. She failed to lodge between 2001 and 2010. Otherwise of outside the hearing she apologised for her actions but said she remained committing committed to serves in the South Australian parliamentI'm sorry for the embarrassment that I have caused to my party and to those who supported me in my political career.The court will impose a penalty next week. In sports news, Matthew Elliot has been charged with turning around Warriors after a disappointing 2012 NRL season. He has been named as coach after inking a two year deal with the Auckland based club. I'm over the moon mate. Massively excited. If I could jump up and down here if my knees allowed me to do it that's what I would do.It is just unbelievable opportunity.The Warriors had been chasing the services of Storm coach Craig Bellamy on a luke radiv dual but -- lucrative deal but he chose to stay with Melbourne. Back now to you Peter.We will take a commercial break. I will be joined by the panel when we come back, plus my rant.

Welcome to the Contrarians this is the only show on Sky where we truly involve you the viewers bereading the Tweets and e-mails.

Tony Abbott a misogynist is Julia Gillard a hypocrite? Perhaps at various moments in both lives a bit of both. There is not necessarily a black or white decision here, there is no doubt in my mind, no doubt whatsoever that it was utter utter hypocrisy of Julia Gillard to run the speech that she ran a motion, when it was about whether or not Peter Slipper should be stood down from the Speakership. There is no doubt in my mind at least that she should have made it quite clear that Peter Slipper did not have her support to remain as Speaker, she will be talking to him later, he will be making a speech. If she didn't want to vote along with Tony Abbott on that motion, which was clearly a political tactic, of course it was that's fine but she thu have made clear where she stood in relation to Slipper's ongoing stance as the Speaker, not just she condemn ed the text messages and remarks made about women. Had turned her into a hypocrite of going on to discuss the sort of elements of sexism and misogyny she had concerned about, and she figured those criticisms directly at Tony Abbott as well. As far as tav goes, I have long defended him as not being someone that has a problem with women but rather than women have a problem with him. But, the 1998 remarks that he made, that have only really surfaced in this last week, I certainly wasn't aware of them are pretty disgraceful remarks and I'm lacking forward to talking to the panel, this idea he will posit a question in the misguided question of the socratic technique, women psychologically were incapable perhaps of leadership and authority is of course nothing short of offensive. It's not just offensive to women but should be offensive to ul of us. Let's see what the panel think about this. The Menzies reserm centre, formally, Julian Leeser, thanks for your company.Nice to be back.Greg O'Mahoney appreciate you joining us.Good to be here.Peter Burnley.Is Tony Abbott a sexist?I don't think he is. I actually think... The remarks are sexist?I think we have seen one of the most unedifies and frankly uninteresting weeks in parliamentary debate in a period that I can remember. And the contrast between it and some of the discussions around Bali today are huge. Yesterday John Howard was interviewed about Bali and it was - it was a reminder what a gulf there is between the present level of political debate and political debate only a few years ago. I think most Australians are not really interested in this hypocrisy misogyny debate and I think the Parliamentarians should get back on to talking about things that actually are of vel rans to ordinary people. There are lots of people who are interested, certainly whether it's on Twitter or Sky News, people you talk to, I on the night made it quite clear I thought it was utter hypocrisy from Julia Gillard as I said in the editorial, I stand by that. But I'm interested in the level of angst that it has brought up in a lot of women in particular, but some men as well. At the end of the day those remarks in 1998, just to come back to you on that Julian are indefensible.I will not defend those remarks. I wouldn't make a contribution to political debate like that. Tony Abbott I don't think would make a contribution like that today either.We haven't heard him reflect on it. He doesn't want to go there from his perspective in the same way in a sense is happy we are discussing this and we will move on to the things like the rising debt and other things, I know Peter has massive concerns about but the issue of this particular attack against Tony Abbott, the remarks in 1998, sure 14 years ago, but I was surprised. He was a member of John Howard's executive at that point in time and he's tried to posit this notion of maybe women basically aren't built for leadership and authority. That's remarkable commentary.As you say, they are indefensible. Unusual thing I think about the context is that he has made some remarks that have sailed close to the wind. His comments about housewives in the last election, Labor has tried to make a lot of them.Can be a guy that's more conservative. Which he clearly is.The point is this is objective ly sexist and would warrant comment from the Opposition Leader.What's going on with all of the Labor types in the background. Do research. I can't believe it took you until now to uncover those remarks. If you had done it before the last election you may be in charge of a majority Government.I think the point is not so much the research, I think we need... It's a fair question. Why did it take so long to uncover. Why didn't Michael Costa come knocking.It is a good question, there are a whole range of issues raised during the last election and this is obviously one that will be raised again. I think the point and I don't disagree with anything that's been said, I think those remarks are abhorrent and cannot be defended, I think in recent years he certainly hasn't made any remarks close to that but it's this kind of lingering.That's an important point as well because...That's the point I make.Julia Gillard is pointing the finger of him in Perth and calling him a misogynist and sexist, and yet here are you saying he hasn't made the remarks for a long time. There is a difference between a misogynist and sexist and reformed perhaps...It is who points - firstly, there is an interesting debate around the definition of misogynist and we can all pick up a dictionary and read it and say that it is someone that hates women. But - I think the broader point is this, when people feel and in this case when women feel that they have been treated in a certain way and discriminated against, we owe it to them and to the broader public debate to take those claims seriously. I was thinking about this earlier today. I remember many years ago as a youth saying to my father I don't think there is any discrimination in Australia these days dad, it's really great and my dad looked at me and said Peter you're a white male, of course there is no discrimination against you, it is against other groups. And I think it's a very dangerous thing to - I'm not saying anyone is but I make the point people are raising concerns I haven't seen them, but that doesn't de legitimise them for a second.You make a good point you were incredibly naive in that statement.I want to make two points. Firstly the Labor Party have been on about these issues in relation to Tony Abbott. In fact this has been a central line of attack. I remember before the 2010 election being on this program with both Paul Howes and with Bruce Hawker and the main line of attack was Tony Abbott doesn't like women, and I remember saying to Bruce Hawker.Those are pretty strong comments for them to pull out.He was dirt digging in terms of Tony Abbott's focused hits. One of the key remarks if you want to try to run that line.It may well have been in there too but I think on Peter's comment about the fact that we need to feel for people who are discriminated against and so on, I think we need to look at what the Labor Party did this week, particularly Nicola Roxon, in her role in the whole James Ashby Peter Slipper thing. There they were rubbishing ashbi-for months despite the fact they had seen the text messages they are read these text messages thoroughly offensive text messages, I think that was beyond the pale.They knew about these text messages that Peter Slipper had sent, as you say for months and months, and yet they were prepared to sit on their hands and keep him technically at least in the Speaker's pog. Even in relation to Slipper, keep him in the speaker's potion for their own cheap low retrograde political advantage Greg.I think what Julian has done is what's happened all this week which is fusing two very distinct issues. The first one was Slipper fit to occupy the position of Speaker and the second is were the Coalition hypercritical in lecturing the Government on sexism and misogyny. And I think in the first instance absolutely on the back of those texts leadership would dictate that he should have been removed from the position. He - one of the things we have talked about on the show previously is the huge bill he was racking up travelling the world. The justification for... Great advertisement for the Australian parliament.That was the justification he was putting Australia's best foot forward overseas and look at the man we had doing that and I think on becoming aware of what was in the messages he should have been financial crisises and I think it is a very lamentable thing that such a speech from Gillard occurred... Her own stupidity. We have got a tweet that's come in from Tom, if Tony Abbott has a problem with strong and capable women then Julia Gillard has nothing to worry about.The broader point here, and I guess taking a second to kind of pull away from the mistakes that have been made and the embarrassments on all sides of the parliament this week, when we look at the speech that was made this has gone internationally viral. I think there is over a million views and I have made the point during this week that a number of my friends and particularly female friends that aren't involved in politics don't care for politics actively avoid it have been commenting on this video, have been tweeting it. Posting it on Facebook.I'm glad you said that because we had a Tweet that came in in relation to Julian that says you are a man Julian, what do you know about what we women go through every day and how we feel? Men always brush it away typical.I did no such thing. I mean I'm absolutely in sympathy with anybody who suffers any sort of discrimination at all, be it men or women.I was making the point that the Government had sat on these texts they had rubbished James Ashby and his case and yet they knew the content of what Peter Slipper had been sending him. I think that is kind of - it is often the same people who were having a go at Tony Abbott this week, people like Albanese and Roxon the Government's attack dogs, who have - were most blameworthy in the whole Ashby-Slipper case.How do you feel about people like Senator Heffernan constantly raising the fact the Prime Minister doesn't have children, is deliberately barren and therefore has no understanding what parents go through.It is not the way I would conduct myself at all Greg.Should Tony Abbott do something about the fact he does have two or five front benchers carrying on like that.Toefrp has pulled some in -- Tony has pulled some into line in the freelancing that's going on and you have seen less of that in the last few months.I'm staggers I am not hosting my own show anymore.What do you think of that Pete? I heard Julian say he will stand by anyone who is a victim of discrimination and that to me, is an objective example of discrimination.Isn't the point that all sides are bad on this? At the end of the day, Julia Gillard called Christopher Pyne a mincing Poodle. Why is that considered acceptable. Bob Carr made some incred blibl sexist remarks in the NSW parliament against Kerry Chikarovski when she was the female leader of the opposition, attacking her over the depth of her voice, went into a whole range of other factors I don't want to go into, we have the union function where that pretty offensive joke about Tony Abbott and his chief of staff was made and despite that the Deputy Prime Minister, we are not talking about some staffer in the office of a junior backbench,, the Deputy Prime Minister stayed put sat there, so did Tanya Plibersek who has been one of the most vocal critics of Tony Abbott in relation to misogyny and sexist remarks sat through this comedy routine. It is shocking on all sides.This is the interesting and I think there has been a turning point whether it was the Alan Jones destroying the joint comments or, whether it happened earlier, that these sorts of things are now centre of public debate, but also being called and I think we can all agree, yes all sides are guilty of inplopry ate comments, and -- inappropriate comments.They are also guilty of full outrage. Today there was no outrage for example it was clear that the media was aware of it.My favourite bit is Wayne Swan declared on late night television last night he made the observation that I didn't want to beat the whole thing up because that's the same way the Labor Party approached those shameful remarks from Alan Jones isn't it. They don't want to beat the situation up. At the end of the day...Oxygen.Hypocrisy and the problem we will go to a commercial break is final thoughts, the problem is at the end of the day there are good and reasonable debates that need to be had in this country about the sexism, no question. And undoubtedably there has been sexism displaced at various points to Julia Gillard but I'm not sure playing the victim when you are in the middle of playing the hypocrite by defending Peter Slipper is the best way to make your point. We will be back in a moment.

Welcome back. We will continue with the panel shortly but first let's take a look what the make news. -- what's making news. Hundreds of people have gathered for a moving service in Bali to honour the memory of the 202 lives lost in the terrorist bombings 10 years ago. Australian and Indonesian leaders joined the families and friends of those killed, and those who survived for a multi-faith service. Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the couldly attacks sought to overwhelm Australia -- cowardly attacks sought to overwhelm's's values. John Howard said the aftermath was the character test Australia has passed with flying colouring Back home, and cities and towns across the country, thousands have paused to mark the 10th anniversary of the attacks. In Canberra survivors and families of the victims joined dignitaries at Parliament House for the national memorial service.Governor-General Quentin Bryce paid tribute to the courage of survives and victims' families, saying Australia had showed it could you night in times of tragedy. -- unite in times of tragedy. Two men vying to be America's next vice president have gone head-to-head on American television. Joe Biden and his ruckman challenger Paul Ryan squared up to each other during a 90 minute debate in Kentucky. The the debate was dominated by health kash, the economy and the nuclear threat from Iran. 10 days after the Reserve Bank cut interest rates the ANZ has followed other banks and dropped its variable mortgage rates. ANZ will lower its interest rate by 20 basis points, to 6.6%.They are the last of the big four to follow the central bank but like other major lenders failed to pass on the full 0.25% cut.And a boat carrying a suspected 53 asylum seekers has been intercepted by HMAS Wollongong. The passenger are being transferred to Christmas Island after being detect ed by border control overnight north-east of the island. In another incident two other vessels were intercepted north east of the Cocos Islands with a total of 13 people on board. In sport, Matthew Elliot has been charged with turning around the Warriors after a disappointing 2012 NRL season. The former panthers and Raiders mentor has been named as coach, after inking a two year deal with the Auckland-based club.And looking to tomorrow's weather forecast:

Welcome back. I'm joined by Julian Leeser who at least one of the viewers doesn't think understand women. Didn't need feedback to tell you that. Greg O'Mahoney and Peter Bentley. Let me start with you Julian, we will move on to issues of policy a little early in the piece, normally do that on Contrarians but we will give it a shot. The carbon tax or carbon price, Tony Abbott was caught out in parliament over egging the pudding when it came to the extent to which the carbon price impacts on electricity bills. You would have seen that no doubt. But at the same time as that when we get to you Peter, I'm not sure this is much of a winner for Labor to be trying to point out because at the end of the day the more we talk about the carbon tax and the fact it does contribute to price increases, even if not as large as Abbott has highlighted, it ain't a good thing for Labor I would have thought.No, the carbon price did make some contribution to the increase in that woman's electricity price. That's undeniable. It is the reverse of those Coles adds which say down, down the prices are down. It is up, up the prices are up.How long did it take you to come up with that one?I was sitting here and the great advertising campaign.You should have brought in... Is there cash for comment. You don't work for Coles now?Only as a check-out chick on a voluntary basis.I think it is a reminder that the carbon tax... That was sexist I think.TheThe carbon tax is a reminder that prices are going up. The carbon tax is making a contribution and I think whatever the technical details of that particular bill the carbon tax has raised... This is a question why then did Tony Abbott make more political mileage out of it than he needed to. He said the bill has doubled and 70% of it is due to the carbon tax. In fact the bill doubled because the energy use doubled between the last #3wi8 and that one. And there was a 10% increase which for a pensioner would be significant, and therefore easy to complain about particularly for a self funded retiree that doesn't get the benefits pensioners have got as part of the compensation package but he still overegg ed it.We had a cold winter and the lady used her heating system more and she paid more for her - as a result of that and part of the increase in her bill wag was the carbon tax.You can blame the carbon tax for a lot of things but you can't blame it for the cold winter --.The can't Global warming on the other hand.The contribution of the carbon tax and we saw yesterday Joe Hockey at a press conference reflect on the rise in unemployment this week from 5.1% to 5.4% and he said front and centre in that rise was the carbon tax. And that's just a nonsense. And he would know that and everyone in parliament would know that. It happens in the last month we have seen data coming out of China that is as slow in terms of GDP growth.Does it matter he gets called on that kind of thing, or he's on a winner when he campaigns again the carbon tax even if he is well and truly overegged the pudding. If not outright misleading parliament.He should be called on that. He wasn't in parliament.It was in parliament he said it.He said it in a prosecution conference outside. That's the sort of thing people should focus on that. It is not right to say that and it mys what's going on in the rest of the world. Of course unemployment is rising and the rise here is consistent with other countries leverage to the China and India growth story. I think it is a travesty to be suggesting this is the result of the carbon price.For the sake of fairness I have to come to you.It goes to the point when he is continually exaggerating and overegging and we have seen the comments before and this is another example when people continually hear him say the sky will fall, this town will be wiped off the map, and it does. Then it goes to the fundamental credibility of his line on carbon pricing and if we look at this bill, one of two things happened. Either Tony Abbott can't read a power bill, or he intentionally misled the parliament.I'm sure Margie pays all the bigs in the house. That must be the explanation. It is a fair point, it was an outright example of misleading parliament or it was utter incompetence.The carbon tax caused the bill to go up.Not by the amount claimed.But the carbon tax caused the bill to go up. That was the key point.He said it was a 70% contributor and it wasn't, a 10% contributor.Carbon tax raised the bill, yes or no.It did but this is why I think it is doing him damage because people read Tony Abbott caught up claiming the carbon tax doubled someone's bill and as a resulting with 70% increase when is we know it is 10% and this goes to the yes there was a 10% increase, no-one's doubting that but it goes to the credibility and when people are continuingly reading Tony Abbott said this town will be wiped off the 3457 and it hasn't, he said the economy will fall apart and it hasn't. Tony Abbott said there was a 70% increase.Julia Gillard said we would never have a carbon tax and we have.Let's be honest she's paid a high political price but that was a one off and these are constantly reoccurring.He got excited about one bill and he probably didn't read it properly. I don't think this will move the needle too much going forward.In the context every time people think about the carbon tax the political debate is such it's a reminder of Gillard's promise not to introduce a carbon tax at the last election. It is fundamentally questionable.It's a se equestion about the voracity of the government.They feel lied to. Whether it or not it was a carbon tax or carbon price, and transition to an ETS those details are muddied by the fact she gave a unequivocal statement a couple of days before the election, there will be no carbon tax she conceded in the aftermath of the election that is what she was introducing because she underestimated political pain the backflip would cause her but at the end of the day she got thoroughly nookered by Bob Brown and the Greens.People pick up on the spread what was promised by Abbott when it came in and what has occurred...I think, that's a great point and the polls show that. Since July up until July 1 Labor was doing atrociously in the polls and essentially since July while yes they are still not ahead their polls support and Gillard approval has been...It is backwards.It is still six or seven points above what it was in July. This goes to the difference between - I'm not saying they are going to win with these numbers but it goes to the point that up until the point in time when people could actually judge for themselves they were judging Labor very negatively on this issue, since they have been able to judge for themselves what the PM's called the lived experience they have been judging in a less negative way and Labor has been increasing in the polls. I think while I agree with you as a one off maybe misread the bill, maybe he decided he thought he could get away with it in parliament, a one-off it's not a huge issue but as a consistent character trait of overegging and overexaggerating I think it could be a problem for him.On overegging and exaggerating Greg's point about the unemployment figures this week, obviously when it rises is a bad thing but I'm not sure you can't say the carbon tax played a part in increasing unemployment at the moment. It's caused uncertainty, it's caused increased costs for business, that would have contributed in some respects at least to an increase in the unemployment figures. You can't dismiss it out of hand with the level of confidence you have.I'm not sure that's right. The stats this week show the sector with least confidence is the mining sector, that is because of what's happened to coal prices and iron ore prices. The carbon tax has had nothing to do with that and the fact contractors are laid off has next to nothing to do with the kaf bon price. To stand in front of parliament and say a 0.3% shift in unemployment is borne of the carbon price is disingenuous and Joe Hockey if you are having dinner with him would agree with that.I think it played a part in raising unemployment because it does raise prices --. You know as well as I do the packaging can the see driver.One of the key drivers was an increase in participation, more people were looking for work. There is a range of factors but I think I agree with you you can never rule one factor out.One time in doing it though. At the end of the day we all know that whether it is the carbon price, transitioning to an ETS, particularly now they have removed the floor price on it so it can plummet once it actually goes into a market mechanism system, or whether it is Tony Abbott's ridiculous direct action plan which is basically just pissing billions of dollars up against the wall for nothing, at the end of the day both these schemes are never going to get us to this so-called 2020 target, even if they do the target is meaningless given the amount of development that goes on around the world and we are in a situation where cost of living pressures have not been more strenrous for people than they are now for decade s and decades yet we are introducing, whether it is both sides in the own way but the carbon tax say heavier cost. At the end of the day it's a meaningless waste of time. It is all political posturing to stick by it or it is environmental posturing because you need to be seen to be doing something about climate change whereas in fact it's unavoidable. It is planned for it rather than wasting our time trying to stop it.I think on that the biggest environmental travesty in our region, I agree in the sense the greatest environmental travesty in our region is what Japanese woodchiping countries are doing in PNG, Burma and Indonesia. You never hear Bob Carr or any Australian politician say anything about that and we are silent on it as a supposed lead in the Pacific that's an issue if we took leadership on the vurnmental doubts If the internal developed world and got together and tried to reduce emissions it will be largely meaningless because the developing world China India writhe through South-East Asia are -- right through south-east Asia sh are creating emission at such a rate of knots. Even if they use relatively clean technology this is still the case because we are talking about literally tens of millions of people becoming consumer middle class individuals rather than people that live on sub sis tent farming.I think firstly there is never a good time for reform and it's always going to be tough and it is always going to be... This isn't reform this say waste of time.I have always defended and support carbon pricing for the simple economic reason this will allow us to create a clean sector renewable sector within Australia that will benefit us in the long term. We will when China, when India, when other nations... Not if you drop the floor price and not if you have the right direction action measures to go with it.At the same time as dropping the floor price we integrated our scheme to the EU and that's opened up a huge market with hundreds of millions of other people involved. This is an economic reform.Julian you can get first bite of the cherry when we come back. We will be back in a moment pment.

Welcome back. I'm joined by lease who is having a tougher than usual time of it on Twitter and e-mail with feedback. A lot of women unhappy with your commentary today. Dr Greg O'Mahoney thanks for your company and Peter Bentley and keep the e-mails and Tweets rolling in. Commentary making the point yes Julia Gillard is an hypocrite. People saying what are we doing bringing an all male panel. Environmentalists getting stuck into me letting me know that I am dead wrong that is much more important you try to deal with climate change and offset to the extent you can rather than simply close your eye stick your head in the sabd and act like an ostrich. Weren't we going to talk about climate change for another few minutes. I wanted to talk about the effect of the carbon pricing scheme.Try to stay with us please.I wanted to say that Peter's point that if you have some sort of kaf bon pricing you will actually change -- carbon pricing you will change people's behaviour and create new industries even Kevin Rudd's economic adviser Andrew Charlton has come out and said, a very good essay, he's come and said, our carbon pricing scheme won't achieve that generally we have got to as Peter said let the developing world develop and enjoy the same standard of living we have, there will be a natural change that people will invent new things that are cheaper, that are better, that are more environmentally sustainable but putting in place the big stick of this carbon pricing scheme won't achieve that.Fusion power that's what we are holding out for. So moving on. Vice presidential debate, Greg O'Mahoney you would have been rivet ed to the television set. Who won.I watched two replays I think Biden narrowly. He was a more fiery performance from him than we saw from the president. The key thing I liked was he was gaffe free. The last few weeks his performances have been laced with one off off lines who are given the sides an opportunity to crack at him. No-one dissecting the debate will find anything he said arsenal.Greg used to be up with you on uni debating.I'm not sure whether Greg has seen this debate.I think the interesting thing is about Biden's performance it will energise the Democrats. There were concerns after Obama's performance.He looks like the guise to energise the base. -- energise the base.Within the base. There were significant concerns after Obama's debate. The absolute bottom end...He didn't attack Romney on the 47% remark, didn't attack and hold him to account on a whole range of different issue s and Biden went for the throat.Did you watch the debate? I watched some and caught the rest on Twitter. I think this will enjise the Democrat base, if vice presidential debates had any significant impact on presidential debates...Can I say if that energy ices the Democrat base it say very it is very easily enner jiezable base. -- energisable base. Not one of these people watched the debate, I asked them about it during the ad break and not one of the three watched it so clearly I can't talk it about just myself. Greg a topic close to your heart, drugs. Lance Armstrong, his misuse of drugs.He is the biggest news of the week, we talk about the disappointment of Australian parliament there is a guy who has been a hero to millions, the poster boy for a sport forever, described as the greatest athlete that's ever lived now the evidence against him it turns out not only was he guilty of the most systemic period of doping over the better part of a decade, but he was bullying teammates who weren't prepared to do it. He was flying to Spain to lie in a bed for a week to get injected with cold blood, to be given EPO.You are across a lot of the details.On the basis a drug tester had checked into the hotel the next morning he left the hotel. It is beyond disgraceful and I think a lot of people, and Bradley Wigans came out and said he field let down and he won the tour he is having to defend Lance. Julian do you think this is likely to effect cycling or is it one of the things where cycling has moved on from it.I hope cycling has moved on from it. I think this is the sort of thing that the east Germans used to do in the 1970s and 1980s. It's never the sort of thing that you would have ever expected from Lance Armstrong. Think about the inspirational story of his comeback from cancer, that book that he had, that sold millions of copies. We are a world without heroes today I think as a result of this story.This man, let's bear in mind something the east Germans never did he has stood in front of the cameras and held hundreds and hundreds of press conferences denying he has ever taken drugs.I think they did that regularly.I think you will find they were taken out the back.You have watched the east Germans as much as you have the vice presidential debate.A random Tweet. Julian suck it up and stop being so scared. Not sure where the issue was but hard to disagree. We have three mines left on camera.I like the idea you didn't see the debate. You know, that's fine. We will start with you you are fired up a lot of things to talk about. Parliament resumes next week, I'm right about that, it is a two week sitting period.Yes.Are we expecting, Greg, more this gender debate? Or do we think it might move on to policy because both sides decided they want to go there. What do you think?I hope it is some battle of ideas in the foreseeable future because it has been beyond embarrassing the last week. What's really interesting is both sides have displayed some pretty questionsable decision making and leadership, the extent that will reflect on leadership tensions in the Coalition and leadership tensions, there is already talk today of Rudd campaigners having some levelling some criticism at Gillard. We might see more of that next week. More jokes in labour functions Judge the debate has been started in the debate but has been taken up by the community and I think in terms of gender issues, that will continue outside of parliament. And it won't surprise me at all if it does return to approximatelisy, particularly with MYEFO coming up, not seeing an economic debate next week which will be very interesting..My producers tell me there is no parliament next week but there will be Senate estimates. What are you expecting? I think you will be getting questioning about the Government's role in the Slipper case, particularly in the legal and constitutional affairs committee I will be watching that with a great deal of interest. I think the Attorney-General here has not handled herself particularly well.We haven't talked about that but that's dead right. Nicola Roxon has really moved above and beyond her tightle and script as Attorney-General over a number of factors lately.I think that she's not behaving in a way that attorneys general in the past like Robert McLelland or Michael LeVache or Gareth Evans would have behaved. Think there has been interference in the slipper case and seemed to be direct instructions to the bar test running the case which is not the usual -- babster running the case which is not the usual mechanism and the whole issue of giving Slipper the special car pass to give him the basement to the Federal Court car park that day was particularly bad. I don't think it is a good look for the first officer of the Crown to be an attack dog as well.Thanks for joining us. Thank you for your company and tune in to 'Australian agenda' on Sunday I will be speaking with Greens leader Christine Milne. It is six months since she's been in the leadership role and despite some people say about women in positions of leadership and authority she seems to have been doing an OK job. Sophie Mirabella also joins us. There is two members of the Coalition front bench in fact women at this cabinet level, we speak to one them on Sunday. And also Jay Weatherill South Australian premier. Speaking to him as well. See you then. Live Captioning by Ai-Media