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Good afternoon, welcome to the

program, I am David Speers. Free

dental care for children from low

income families, it sounds like a

long overdue reform for Australia

to take and a positive move from

the government today. But there are

questions about this new policy

unveiled by the Health Minister

this morning. For starters, it

doesn't start until 2014, what

happens between now and then? Will parents delay taking their children

to the dentist to access this

publicly funded scheme? And how

will the government pay for this?

To explain the scheme and answer

some of these questions, we will be

talking to Health Minister Tanya

Plibersek. We will look further at

yesterday's announcement from the

government at changes to the carbon

price scheme. Once we go from the

tax to the emissions trading scheme,

there will no longer be a floor

price. Is this a good move? And

linking into the European scheme,

what does it mean in practice? We

are talking to a couple of industry

experts on this, is it a sensible

step? How will it work in practice

and how will it affect the budget

and how will we still achieve our

greenhouse reduction targets? Back

top stories. to the new centre to check out the

3 million student -- children from

low income families will soon have

access to government subsidised

dental care. The $4 billion scheme

will begin in 2014, but the

Coalition is demanding to know how

Labor is going to fund it.

20% of children from low income

families have not been to the

dentist in five years, if ever.

6/10 had to stick a by the time

they are 15. -- tooth decay. It is

those statistics the Health

Minister wants to change and the

government is throwing $4 billion

at the problem to make it happen.

This is an investment today that

will be rewards in 10 years time,

20 years time, 30 years time. From

2014, 3 million children whose

families receive the family tax

benefit part A will be eligible to

receive government subsidised care.

The entitlement is up to $1000,

that will well and truly cover

checkups, cleaning, scaling. The

scheme will be administered through

Medicare. We will have a generation

of children for whom going to the

dentist is as easy as going to the

doctor. In mid-2014, millions of

adults on low income will be

eligible to. More money is going

into training dentists and into infrastructure in rural and

regional areas. The scheme replaces

a number of other and run dental

program is already in place.

Including the chronic disease

dental scheme, introduced by Tony

Abbott as Health Minister. The

Commonwealth had a very good dental

scheme, which was set up and it was

working. If it was being brought in,

it was being wrought it on labour's

watch. It is one of the worst

designed pieces of public policy I

have ever seen in my life. The new

$4 billion dental scheme is part of

the agreement that the Greens

struck with Labor after the 2010

election. But with budgets so tight,

it is unclear how Labor plans to

pay for it. We are seeing the

Gillard government spending like

the drunken sailors. We will have

to find savings to pay for it, just

as we have had to find savings to

pay for all our investments. The $4

billion of new spending will be

spread over the next six years. It

depends on the state's continuing

their current levels of spending on dental health, setting the stage

for more argy-bargy between the

government. Liberal premiers and the Gillard

Julia Gillard has stood by her

commitment that no asylum seeker

arriving by boat will be resettled

ahead of others that have applied

from offshore. Nauru and Papua New

Guinea have indicated they don't

want any asylum seekers detained in

their country to be processed and resettled as soon as possible.

Speaking at the Civic Islands Forum,

where she enjoyed a traditional --

Pacific Islands Forum, where she

enjoyed a traditional welcome,

Prime Minister Gillard has stuck by

her original words. They will have

to have their claims processed to

see of Barrett a genuine -- to see

if they are a genuine refugee and

if they are, they will wait the

same amount of time for a resettlement opportunity as they

would have waited if they did not

get into the boat. Of course, when

we get to that stage, having acquitted be no advantage

arrangements, we would want to see

people resettled as quickly as

possible. Indonesian authorities say the asylum-seeker boat believed

to be carrying up to 150 people

does not require any assistance.

The boat is believed to be about

220 nautical miles off the coast of

christmas island, the Indonesian

search and rescue authority says

that despite earlier reports it was

distress. sinking, the boat is not in

The leaders of the CMF EU and

Grocon will meet tomorrow after a

week-long stalemate in Melbourne.

The Victorian Premier has called on

the Federal government to bring

back the Building and Construction

Commission. -- commissioner.

Ted Baillieu says the protest at

the Grocon site involving more than

1000 protesters never would have

Construction Commission had not happened if the Building and

been abolished. He is calling on

the government to bring it back.

Some of those laws, he says, would

have stopped the protest happening.

Particularly the clashes between

protesters and police. He said

there were about 1000 there this

morning and many continue to

barricade and stop Grocon workers

from accessing the site. We

wouldn't be in this situation if

the Federal government had not

neutered the fair work act and the

construction industry act and if

they hadn't abolished the ACC --

ABCC. I urge the Prime Minister to

bring back the ABCC urgently. He

has called on the construction

compliance co-director to begin

investigations to find out what it

is all about and why they are

continuing despite being ordered to

leave. Daniel Grollo, the famous

millionaire it to the company, says

he has no idea what it is about.

They have changed their story over

the last few days, we continue to

dispel false allegations, they

continue to move what the issue is.

What they have to do is understand

that what they are doing is illegal

in Victoria. And while numbers

swelled to 1000 this morning, they

are now only a handful outside gate

one continuing to stop people from

gaining access. The CFMEU's Bill

Oliver says they will stay until

they get what they want. We can try

and sit down and negotiate then --

an outcome... Victorian police say

it is up to the Police Chief

get involved. Commissioner to decide if they will

The Northern Territory's new chief

minister has been sworn in after

the Liberal Party sweeping the tree

at the weekend, Terry Mills --

sweeping victory. Terry Mills was

sworn in during an official

ceremony. We will deliver for

territorials. The country Liberals

are a proud party, we are quite

open and we sort our business out

in the best interests of

territorials. Mr Mills is the first

Liberal Chief Minister in the

territory in 11 years.

The wife of US Republican

presidential candidate Mitt Romney

has spoken in support of her

husband at the party's convention

in Florida. While her husband

declared -- while her husband is

declared the Republican candidate

and his speech -- his wife's speech

was aimed at female voters. I'm not

sure of men understand is, but I

don't think there is a woman in

America expecting her life to be

easy. That's fine, we don't expect

it. But the last few years have

been hard. Petrol pumps, grocery

bills, school sports are now one

more bill to pay. Everything has

become harder. We are too smart to

know there are easy answers, but we

are not dumb enough to accept that

there aren't better answers.

(APPLAUSE). And that is where this

boy I met at a high school dance

comes in. His name is Mitt Romney

and you should really get to know

him! And it is all happening in the

shadow of Hurricane Isaac, which

has made landfall on the Gulf coast

of America with high winds and

heavy rains buffeting cities and

towns. The President urged locals

to heed warnings and take them seriously.

Hurricane Isaac has arrived and the

people of New Orleans know it will

be a rough ride. On the seventh

anniversary of Hurricane Katrina,

this is another battering from

mother nature with the attention to

be devastating. The people of New

Orleans are starting to get the

first eight of what Hurricanes --

their first taste of what Hurricane

Isaac will be like. The fear of

storm surges and torrential rain is

a very real threat to the city and

this is only the beginning. Those

who decided to stay will have to

ride it out. It could take a while.

Do not let this storm lull you into

complacency, it would be a terrible

mistake. We have dodged a bullet in

the sense that this is not a

category three storm, but a

category one. At the strength from

85 to 100 mph winds, it is plenty

big enough to put a big hurt new if

you fall into -- hurt on you if you

fall into complacency. Let's not do

that. In some places, there was no

option other than to evacuate. Am

worried, I living in an old trailer,

not a new one, I hope and prey the

storm don't take it. It's category

one, I'm not as worried as I was

during Katrina. But we are still a

little bit worried. Having gained

strength over the Gulf of Mexico,

Hurricane Isaac school sports is

heading inland -- Hurricane Isaac

is full force is heading inland. A

few places have stayed open, this

bar in the historic French quarter

of New Orleans offering shelter and

sustenance. It is kind of eerie to

see no one around. And you think

that is because people are worried?

From what I understand, after

Katrina, people don't want to risk

it. Especially families. So far,

the levies have done the job they

failed to do during Kurup --

Katrina. Seven years ago knocked

people's confidence, but there is

defiance that whatever nature not -

- mother nature throws at them, they will survive.

A look at sport now, Mark McVeigh

has announced his retirement after

14 years with the bombers. The 31-

year-old has played 200 odd games

for the club, but just three in

2012 as he struggled with injuries. Carlton assistant coach Alan

Richardson says Brett Ratten is

feeling up beat, despite constant

speculation surrounding his future

at the club. The Blues closed ranks,

cancelling his appearance at a news

conference today. He is incredibly optimistic, positive about coaching

the team to respond to the weekend.

In Brett Ratten's mind right now

from what we see as coaches, it is

about making up for an incredibly

disappointing performance. The loss

to the Suns ended Carlton's hope of

making the finals.

And the National weather for cars

now: -- And now for a look at the

weather: it is 4:13 eastern time.

Back to David Speers in camera.

We will be talking to Health

Minister Tanya Plibersek after the

break, stay with us.

You are watching PM Agenda. The

Prime Minister has arrived in the

Cook Islands for the cook --

Pacific Island Forum. From the

looks of it she made quite an

entrance. Julia Gillard was carried

aloft by warriors, part of a

traditional welcome, and she didn't

appear to be uncomfortable at all,

smiling and waving to the crowd.

Her focus will be economic

development in the Pacific, climate

change - always an issue for low-

lying islands - and gender equality.

In the background is the struggle

for power and influence in the

Pacific being played out by the US

and China. China has been pouring

increasing amount of aid into the

region. Hillary Clinton has decided

to attend her first Pacific Island

Forum. The other issue on the

agenda will be signing a memorandum

of understanding with the President

of Nauru to start sending asylum

seekers there. The leaders of Nauru

and PNG have made it clear they

don't want asylum seekers detained

indefinitely. They want them

resettled elsewhere as quickly as

possible. Julia Gillard said today

they would be resettled as quickly

as possible but only after they

have waited as long as it would

take those waiting to be processed

in Indonesia and Malaysia under the so-called no-advantage principle.

When people are transferred to PNG

for Nauru they will have to have

their claims processed to see

whether or not they are a genuine

refugee, and if they are a genuine

refugee they will have to wait the

same amount of time for a

resettlement opportunity as they

would have waited if they haven't

got any boat. When we get to that stage, having acquitted the no

advantage arrangement, we would

want to see people resettled as

quickly as possible. So they could

wait in Nauru and Manus Island four

years to satisfy the no advantage

test, then they would be resettled

as quickly as possible. The Gillard

Government has made another

significant step to restore its

political fortunes. In the last few

weeks we have seen the Government

backed down to varying degrees on

the carbon tax and asylum seekers.

We are also seeing Labor starting

to enjoy improvement in the pools -

- polls. And Health Minister Tanya

Plibersek announced plans for a

dental healthcare scheme targeted

for starters at children. From 2014

2.4 million kids look at taxpayer-

funded dental care. Up to $1000 of

basic work will be available for

these children every two years. At

the moment the kids are missing out

on basic dental care. The figures

are stark - one in five kids from

low income families haven't been to

a dentist in five years if at all.

3/5 kids from the income families

have to stick a by the time they

are 15. -- have tooth decay. By the

-- the pricetag is just over $4

billion. It will replace the

existing chronic disease dental

scheme and also the Medicare teen

dental scheme, but the pricetag is

something the Opposition is worried

about. Tony Abbott is asking where

the money will come from. We are

seeing the Gillard Government spending like the proverbial

drunken sailor. There is more money

for Gonski, there is currently

going to be more money for

dentistry. There is a $5 billion

plus blowout in border protection

costs. This is a Government which

knows that it is not going to

deliver the promised surplus. To

explain how this new scheme will

work and how it will be paid for,

Health Minister Tanya Plibersek

jointly from Sydney. Welcome to the

program. -- jointly from Sydney.

This scheme will start in 2014 but

you are cancelling the current

scheme from the end of this year.

In the last Budget we announced a

$515.3 million package that will

deal with the waiting lists, so

$345 million to deal with the

400,000 people around Australia who

are on public dental waiting lists

and also measures to boost

workforce and dental infrastructure.

Some parts of the country were, it

wouldn't matter how much money you

have in your pocket, you couldn't

find a dentist. As you say, from

January 2014, families that have children who are eligible for

family tax benefit part a, so it is

also families with two parents, two

kids who could be earning up to

$112,000 and still be eligible for

the scheme. The entitlement will

come in and will essentially be

like visiting a GP. It will be the

first generation of kids for whom

it is as easy to fit -- visit the

dentist as it is to visit the

doctor. There will be a range of

services available up to the value

of $1000 over two years. Do you

expect some families to hold off

taking their kids to the dentist

until that kicks in? We know that a

lot of parents aren't taking their

kids to the dentist now because

they can't afford it. This will

remove the barrier of not being

able to afford dental care.

Unfortunately there is a lot of kids who aren't visiting the

dentist right now because they

can't afford a checkup. Or if they

can afford a checkup, they are

worried about what it would cost to

get fillings or other basic work

the dentist might suggest. This

will remove the price barrier for

families that are earning over

$100,000 per year if they have a

couple of kids. The second part of

the package is also important. The

first part of the package is a 2.7

but -- $2.7 billion entitlement for

kids. The second part is another

$1.3 billion on top of the $500,000

in the last Budget to improve our

public dental systems around the

country. We know that millions of people are technically eligible for public dental care, aged pensioners,

disability pensioners and others,

but never get to the top of the

list because of the stressed dental

system dealing with crisis cases.

They are not able to do prevention

or checkups. Extra money for public

dental as well. Getting back to the

children and the first part of this.

Do you expect some families to wait

until 2014 to access the free

dental care? No, I expect families

who can afford to take their kids

and you have been taking their kids

to continue taking their kids, but

we know that a lot of families are

already holding off because they

can't afford it. Why aren't you

starting this next year? In the

flick a switch tomorrow, it is

doubtful they would have enough

dentists in enough places to do the

extra work we are talking about.

The measures in the last Budget

that we announced, $500 million

clearing public waiting lists in

the system, but there are also

measures to boost the dental

workforce and make sure we have

enough dental chairs in outer metro

areas, the -- regional and rural

areas where there are shortages.

You don't have the capacity at the

moment. We also have to take time

to design and construct the scheme

we are talking about. The chronic

disease dental scheme we are

shutting down has been massively

brought it in -- rorted and abused.

Millionaires are getting thousands

of dollars of cosmetic work. If it

is thousands of dollars to cover a

basic visit to the dentist, couldn't some dentists claim that

amount when they shouldn't? No,

because like Medicare you will have

a set price for a set service.

There will be a price for a checkup,

a price for application of the rude

-- fluoride, a price for dealing

with fissures or putting in a

filling. There will be itemised

account in any same way you have

with Medicare. The difference with

the chronic disease dental scheme,

we have seen dentists with little or no paperwork either

overservicing - because the rules

allow it - or even breaking peoples,

doing things like aiming for work

that hasn't been provided,

providing dentures that don't fit,

doing thousands of dollars of

committed -- cosmetic work. What do

you say if by cancelling the

chronic disease dental scheme and

also the Medicare teen dental

scheme, what is the saving? Yellow

mac the Medicare scheme will

continue until the child

entitlement starts, so there will

be no gap. The chronic disease

dental scheme is running at a rate

of knots. The scheme was supposed

to cost $90 million per year, it is

now costing $80 million per month.

So it is about $1 billion per year?

It is about 800 million this year,

but if there is a provision in the

forward estimates for this

provision -- for the scheme,

because it is being -- it is our

intention to close... My point is,

are you really spending more money

with the new scheme or are you

saving money by making the change?

We absolutely have to find $4

billion to cover this cost, because

the chronic disease... No, David,

you have to understand this.

Because the chronic disease dental

scheme has been slated for closure

since we came to Government, we

have been making provision for this

quarter by quarter. There is no

money in the forward estimates for

the chronic disease dental scheme

because we have been struggling to

get the support of the Greens and

the crossbenchers to close it.

There is not billions of dollars in

the Budget for this. We are dealing

with it quarter by quarter, so

there is no money to be redirected.

It is not in the forward estimates.

We need to not -- need to find a

new $4 billion and we can. We have

found $33 billion in the last

Budget that we have been able to

spend on Labor priorities. We have

been able to find $100 billion...

Where will you find the money? We

will account for it like all new

spending in the media forecast. We

are determined to get the Budget

into surplus. You can't tell us

today? I can't -- I won't tell you

today. We have low inflation,

strong fundamentals, we have found

$33 billion worth of savings in the

last Budget and $100 billion in the

Budget before that. We are spending

on Labor priorities like increasing

the aged pension, investing in education, extra investment in a National Disability Insurance

Scheme. Isn't it critical for the

Government to -- is it fair to

expect the Opposition to explain

how they will pay for promises when

you won't explain how he will pay

for this, the insurer and --

Disability Insurance Scheme, asylum

seekers... There are a lot of

unknowns. I will give you an

example. When I first became Health

Minister, we had a very difficult

fight to means test the rebate on

private health insurance. That was

opposed every step of the way. I

had that tough fight because I

wanted to spend that money on my

priorities as a Health Minister.

I'm willing to have those fights.

I'm willing to have those tough

fight. Our record shows that I'm

prepared to have them and they will

have them. What we see from Tony

Abbott and Joe Hockey and the

others on the Opposition front

bench is a $70 billion black hole

and no detail about how they will

close it and no track record.

Health Minister Tanya Plibersek, we

will leave it there. Thanks for

joining us.

Later in the program we will get

reaction from the Australian

Medical Association about today's

announcement. After the break we

will take a closer look at the

changes to the carbon price is --

carbon price in scheme. Stay with us.

You are watching PM Agenda. Time to check the headlines.

5 million Australians will get

subsidised dental care under a for

billion-dollar package announced by

the Federal government. The plan

provides services to 3.5 million

children and 1.4 million adults on

low incomes by both public and

private dental clinics. The

Opposition is demanding to know how it will be funded.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard has

arrived in the Cook Islands for the

Pacific Islands Forum, Ms Gillard

received a special welcome, smiling

and waving to the crowd as she was

carried aloft by local warriors.

The Prime Minister will hold key

talks with leaders of Nauru and

Papua New Guinea looking to

reassure them that asylum seekers sent to Australian operator

detention centres will be processed

as quickly as possible.

Indonesian authorities say there is

no sign of a boat carrying 150

asylum seekers that reportedly put

out a distress call. The ship put

out the call from Indonesia's Sunda Strait, but Indonesian authorities

say there is no sign of the ship

and they are unable to confirm if a

ship did sink or if there was anyone on board.

The Victorian Premier has called on

the CFMEU to back down from their illegal protest at a Melbourne

construction site. Around 200

members today lined Sydney's Pitt

Street to highlight claims that

parking and plywood fell from a

nearby Grocon site earlier this

month. Bill Shorten says the CEO of

Grocon, Daniel Grollo, will meet

union bosses tomorrow to try to

resolve the dispute over

construction site safety in Sydney and Melbourne.

The Northern Territory's new chief

minister has been sworn in after

the cultural Liberal Party is

sweeping victory at the weekend. --

Country Liberal Party sweeping

victory. Terry Mills is the first

Liberal Chief Minister in the

territorial in 11 years.

The wife of US Republican candidate

Mitt Romney has given a rousing

support speech at the party's

convention in Tampa, Florida. Mrs

Ronnie said she wanted to talk

about love, not politics. -- Mrs

Romney. Mitt Romney secured enough

delegates to win the official

nomination. In sport, Australian

Bernard Tomic is through to the

second round of the US Open in New

York. After dropping the first set,

he won the next three against

Carlos Berlocq. And now for a look at the weather:

Thank you, the big news yesterday

is still being digester, the

government's backdown, change, call

it what you will need carbon

pricing scheme. Once we go from a

tax at a fixed price, to an

emissions trading scheme, a

floating price, in 2015. The

government has gotten rid of the

$15 floor price. It was supposed to

stop the Australian price from

falling too low and reducing

revenue. The scheme will link in

with the European union scheme. The

price in Europe is under $15, it is

at $10 at the moment. We heard the

political to and fro on this

yesterday. The Prime Minister

continued to defend this change

today, saying it now count as the

argument that Australia is going

too far, too fast, when it comes to

price on carbon. The fact that we are linking with the European

scheme gives a complete lie to the

fear mongers, who have tried to

tell the Australian people that it

is only Australia that is acting on

climate change. That has always

been untrue and now it is

demonstrably untrue. To get away

from the politics of this, to find

out how this changes really going

to affect the carbon pricing scheme

and Australian business, who had to

pay it in Australia, I am joined by

two experts in the field, a doctor

from the Australian National

University, the director for the

Centre of climate economics and

public was -- policy. And the

representative for Australia and

New Zealand on the emissions

trading Association. Welcome to you

both. I want to start with you,

Frank, is this a good move to get

rid of the floor price? It is a

reasonable change under the

circumstances. The circumstances

are that there is a strong headwind

blowing. Industry has launched --

lobbied against the carbon floor

price. This policy change will achieve the fundamental underlying

objective in a similar way as the

floor price. You don't think it

will have a huge impact on our

emission reduction efforts? And

also are efforts to keep the budget

in the black? Bid big issue is to

prevent -- the big issue is to

prevent the carbon price crashing

to rock what and levels that we see

in the international markets.

Developing country's trade around

three or four dollars per time.

These are very cheap credits.

That's right and the new policy

achieves that. Rob Fowler, is this

a good move from the government? I

think it's a positive step from the

business community's perspective.

It takes away one of the major

impediments that we saw in the last

few months with business trying to

move forward and take a position on

these carbon market opportunities.

The other issue, of course, we

still face is the political

uncertainty over the next 12 months

and what sort of drastic policy

changes we might see were that

shift in government. Indeed, if

Tony Abbott gets in, does this make

it any harder for him to get rid of

the whole thing? He says it doesn't.

I think it might make it easier for

businesses to step forward and take some positions. Especially those

with long-term investments, long-

term exposure to Australia's carbon

regime. If they can take a position

and a mature and liquid EU market,

it means they will have more

confidence in their investments and

their exposure over the next three

or five years. There are upside and

downside risks for the government

linking in with the European price.

If the European price is still very

low, then this is going to hurt the

budget. If it is suddenly very high,

you will have business complaints

as well. It is getting in their

sweet spot and the question is,

where is the European price going

to be come mid- 2015? No one knows

with accuracy, Rob Fowler, what is

your best guess? Where do you

expect the price to go? The

European carbon market is

relatively immature, so you can see

prices from market makers for

delivery of units next year, the

year after, into the future. If we

look at prices we see today and

someone like Morgan Stanley is

looking at $18.50 Australian for

the carbon price in Australia in

2020. These prices are published by

large market makers in the European

market as they are actively traded, they have counterparties, risk

management products, the

sophistication that Australia wants

to see in its own carpet maker --

carbon market over time. Frank, the

expectation is there will be an

increase. The Europeans are keen

for that as well. What are they

doing to lift the price in Europe?

The European governments and

commission have been talking about

intervening in the carbon market by

restricting the supply of permits

into the market because the current

price is below what they consider a

comfort level. The European

governments from next year onwards

will be keeping part of the revenue

for their own budgets and that

gives them a very direct... This

should impact the European price? I

see much more upside than downside

in the European price, but

obviously, you can't ignore it, it

is a market price. How much does

this in fact -- affect business decisions...

decisions... What will this mean for investment in renewable energy?

If you make the investment now, you

are taking the best indication you

can of carbon prices over the long

term. For the European price, you

would make the guess based on

forward prices, West on your own

expectations, you would be looking

beyond 2018. The policy change

would have increased the

expectation of the carbon price by

then because there is no longer a

danger that the price would fall

down from the floor price level in

2018, down to the CDN price level

at that time. We would just have a

combined EU, Australia price at the

time. Rob Fowler, the whole scheme

is there to reduce emissions. We

had a commitment to reduce them by

5% by 2020, and I think it is our

aim to reduce by 80% by 2050. What

chance is there of hitting those

targets if the price does move

around a lot? I think it's

important to recognise that those

targets are fairly aggressive. They

represent a substantial transformation in the Australian economy to meet the large proportion of those targets. But

they are also met targets. They are

meant to include the emissions

reductions we sponsor overseas. For

this transformation to occur, we

need to have some sort of mechanism

to constrain those things. If we

get the political ambition to drive

ahead with those targets, then

having the carbon market and a

compliance mechanism is a very

useful thing to have in place when

you get the political momentum. You

can turn down the dial and constrain behaviour and change the

way it occurs. What about the

question that often comes up and we

are now linking into the European price, Australian business can

start today buying European permits,

why send all the money off sure --

offshore to buy permits overseas?

Rob Fowler, does it matter? I think

we have to remember the challenge

ahead of us is global. Climate

change is not about local

pollutants. It is about global emissions. These issues are just Australia, they cover the region, our neighbours, and distant

countries. We have got to figure

out how we fit into that traded if

I'm -- environment. We have created

a strong presence in the

environment for resources, products,

professional services and education,

I think we can also establish a

strong trade in carbon and it is

something that will grow over the

coming decade. Frank, to get back

to you, these cheaper credits on

permits that you can buy, explained

to us what they are and why the

government has now limited the

number of those that can be bought

by Australian firms. Under the

Kyoto protocol, a mechanism --

mechanism was created for project

developers in developing countries

to reduce emissions project by

project. That was quite successful

in creating these offset units. But

the European Union is just not

buying these any more. Are they

dodgy? Are we talking about a

developing country, like Indonesia,

telling the world they are not go

to cut down a forest that they were

planning to cut down, is that what

we mean? You can't generalise.

There aren't many forestry projects

and Emacs -- in the mix. There is

some question about their validity.

The CDN is not the way of the

future. We can say that. You can

only buy 12.5% of your overall

permits on this market? That's

right. From the perspective of an

Australian emitter, you can apply

for the first 12.5% of your total

liability in a cheap way, since

some money to developing countries

to support what we have of that

mechanism still. The rest is

through domestic permits that you

buy and it is at the margin you

would expect some purchases from

the European Union which then

equalises the price between the two.

Rob, why aren't we move into a

floating price linking in with the

European price now? Why do we have

to wait until mid-2015? The

government's argument is they need

business certainty etc. We are

going to be paying a higher price

for the next few years. I think

there is a timeline for business to

get under way and get the

compliance situation under wraps.

But I'm not sure if that is three

years. I think it could be possible

consideration of an earlier

transmission to a floating price.

Australian businesses will likely

be ready for that in the next 12

months. It will depend on the

political wind and how would blow

is running up to the next election.

What about the budget? How does it

impact that? I think the

applications for this in terms of budget really drop in comparison

and a small compared to the

variability based on corporate tax

revenue. In Australia right now,

but he prices drive very much the

national accounts. This is the way

Australia is oriented, it is

exposed to these markets and

international trade. I don't think

carbon should be any different.

Finally, if Tony Abbott does win

the next election and dismantles

the carbon price scheme and puts in

places Direct Action plan. -- plan,

can we still meet our targets that

we have committed to? Meeting any

given emission reduction in

Australia without carbon price will

be much more expensive than doing

it with it. You will have a big

bureaucracy looking after it. You

will be invariably missing out on

opportunities that the carbon price

will cover. But don't forget, the

game is much longer than just 2020.

What the carbon price can do is

send a fundamental signal in the

economy that you want to try and

get away from carbon intensive

technologies where you can. And

take the perspective towards 2030,

2040. Rob, your thoughts on that?

Direct action, is it able to

achieve what Tony Abbott says it

will? I suppose the business

community is hoping there will be a

middle ground struck over the next

12 months and trying to find a

policy in Australia that will work

and longer terms. I think if the Direct Action policy excludes

international activity, we will

have to explain to our trading

partners why we are comfortable

exporting emissions in the form of

coal and gas, but not comfortable

importing reductions from the

developing economies. It will be

difficult to explain. Frank and Rob,

a very interesting discussion, they

queue for joining us are some of

the practical -- that you for

joining us. After the break, we

return to the dental health scheme

announced by the government today

and we will get some reaction by

the Australian Medical Association.

We are going to return to the new

dental health scheme announced by

the minister, Tanya Plibersek,

today. We heard from her earlier.

Now for reaction we are joined by

Doctor Brian Morton, the chair of the Australian Medical Association

chair of -- council of general

practice. To remind people what has

happened, the Government from the

end of November will cancel chronic

disease dental scheme. From the

start of 2014 it will have a scheme

for low and middle income -

children from low and middle income

families to cover basic dental care

up to $1000 per treatment. Did you

welcome this move? This is a really

significant investment in dental

care and it really represents a

missing link in the treatment in

holistic patient care, so it is a

very welcome reform. Explained to

us why poor dental health has

become such a big health issue in

Australia. When patients visit AGP,

for example, the most AGP can do

for dental health is to treat the

absence. -- the most a GP. And to

treat the pain. We need to refer to

the public health system to treat

the patient who can't afford to go

to a dentist. So there is that

aspect. It is estimated at 3.4

million consultations related to

dental care in general practice.

Also, in 2009-10 there were 60,000

treatments in public hospitals and

that is really closing the door

after the horse has bolted. It

would be much better to prevent

those illnesses, infections, dental

decay, pain, by prevention,

especially with young kids. So

hopefully, I guess, from the

doctor's perspective, this will be

is some of the pressure on GPs by

getting kids into dentists and

getting some of those problems

prevented before they turn into

abscesses that are a more serious

health problem. Certainly having

the prevention, the dental

assessment as a child, having

fluoride treatment, making sure the

mouth is not too crowded and some

dental extractions. But extractions

for a better healthcare rather than

treating rotten teeth. Has the

chronic disease dental scheme that

the Government will wind up, has it

been rorted in your experience? I

think it has been a very difficult

area for those dentists and GPs.

The patient comes in and says,

often it is "My dentist told me to

come and see if I am eligible for

the chronic disease program," Most

people aren't because they don't

have chronic disease. It has been

too open-ended. There haven't been

of controls on who is eligible for

treatment and unfortunately it has

cost the community a lot of money.

Finally, do you see the new scheme

that has been announced as a

stepping stone to a broader public

dental health system, something

like Medicare operating generally

in Australia? I think there are

issue cautions. It is $1000

entitlement over two years, and one

would hope that that has been

discussed with the dental practitioners so that we know

exactly what is eligible for

treatment and how much that will

actually cover. We need to make

sure that some of the problems with

Medicare, which is an open-ended

system often with no skin in it for

the patient, that the treatment is

appropriate. There is some responsibility by both

practitioners and public that the

dental care is not abused. But yes,

it is a really great thought that

dental care will be one of the

pillars on which our good health

system operates. Doctor Brian

Morton from the Australian Medical

Association, I appreciate your

reaction to this announcement today.

Thank you. There are still

questions about how this will be

paid for, something we will follow

up tomorrow as well. Thanks for

your company. See you tomorrow.

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