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MS Cure? -

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Narration

Is it possible that Multiple Sclerosis can be cured? According to these medical mavericks, the
answer is yes.

Dr Paul Thibault

This is a paradigm shift in the way we understand the disease.

Narration

They argue that an infection is what triggers the disease.

Dr David Wheldon

The immune system sort of knows it's there but can't do much about it.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

Incredibly, the treatment has been right under our noses. Here, I explore an unpopular medical
theory that has been flying under the radar until now.

Narration

At this home in London lives a man who believes he's cured his wife of an incurable disease.

Dr David Wheldon

I don't like using the word 'cure' because it's sort of tempting providence, but I feel in my heart
of hearts that the disease has gone.

Sarah Longlands

If it wasn't for David I would be probably dead or curled up in a corner of a nursing home, useless
to the world.

Dr David Wheldon

Well, meet the artist, Sarah.

Sarah Longlands

Hello.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

Hi Sarah, how are you doing?

Narration

Sarah, a talented artist, was diagnosed with MS in her twenties.

Sarah Longlands

My right arm started to go numb and I couldn't use it at all, it was just hanging in front of me.

Dr David Wheldon

Sarah was told that there was absolutely nothing that medicine could do for her. I, I was filled
with fear. Here was a person I'd married - an alert, intelligent, bright, creative person, who, to
be quite blunt, was, was losing her mind.

Narration

It's widely accepted that MS is an auto-immune disease. The body's immune system destroys the
myelin sheath around nerve fibres. Patients develop lesions in the brain and spinal cord, and
eventually lose their ability to think and move.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

So this is, this is essentially damage in the brain?

Dr David Wheldon

It's damage, yes.

Narration

David, an expert in infectious diseases who used to treat MS patients, drew on all his experience
to formulate a revolutionary theory. He believed that Sarah's MS was triggered by an infection. The
bacterium he honed in on was called Chlamydia Pneumoniae.

Dr David Wheldon

When one thinks of Chlamydia, one automatically thinks of venerally transmitted Chlamydia.
Chlamydia Pneumoniae is a respiratory pathogen. It's spread by droplet infection - coughing and
sneezing.

Narration

Infection is so common that it's likely you've been exposed by the age of twenty. The bacteria
finds shelter inside blood vessels and nerves, causing low-grade infection over decades. Convinced
that Sarah's body was under attack from this bacterium, David worked tirelessly to find a solution.
Together with a colleague in the US, he formulated a cocktail of antibiotics to eradicate this
insidious bacterium.

Dr David Wheldon

It's been shown that a single antibiotic doesn't eradicate the organism, and these three
antibiotics work together in a very specific way.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

How long does the treatment go for?

Dr David Wheldon

I think the treatment should be for a minimum of a year.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

A year?

Dr David Wheldon

Yes.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

That's a long time on antibiotics.

Dr David Wheldon

It, it is a long time, but it's a very, very difficult organism to eradicate.

Narration

Sarah's neurologist insisted she would never regain her function. But David showed me the lesions
on Sarah's MRI scans before and after treatment. The results were nothing short of miraculous.

Dr David Wheldon

I've never seen anything like it before. Some lesions have quite literally vanished. Sarah had been
numb from the waist down and literally couldn't feel her legs. Sensation came back fairly quickly,
in, in, in five or six months.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

Did this shock the neurologists?

Dr David Wheldon

Ah, the neurologist wouldn't see the scan. He says, he says, 'I'm not looking.'

Dr Maryanne Demasi

So did this, did this surprise you?

Dr David Wheldon

It absolutely shocked me. I think very few people know about the possibility of a chlamydial
causation of MS, and therefore very few people will understand the possibility of treatment. The
ignorance about this organism is immense.

Narration

The problem is, this bacterium is notoriously difficult to detect in patients. Only a few labs in
the world have the expertise.

Dr David Wheldon

Technique is a limiting factor, and to say you don't isolate something as difficult as this is,
like I say, if you search a haystack for ten minutes and say, 'I see no needle', really you're not
telling anyone very much.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

This kind of paradigm change in the way we understand and treat disease often causes dissention
among the ranks. And this wouldn't be the first time that a radical theory was dismissed by
mainstream medicine.

Narration

Australian scientists, Warren and Marshall, went to extraordinary lengths to prove that stomach
ulcers were not caused by stress, but by a bacterial infection. Marshall took the ultimate leap of
faith and infected himself with the bug.

Barry Marshall

I said to my wife, 'I took the bacteria, I've got the illness.' And she said, 'You did what?'

Narration

Fortunately a simple course of antibiotics cured him. The pair won a Nobel Prize in 2005.

Similarly in 2008, Italian doctor Paolo Zamboni was ridiculed when he proposed a whole new approach
to MS. He claimed that instead of treating nerve damage, doctors should be focused on blood
vessels. He believed that MS was due to a narrowing of the veins in the neck. Zamboni's theory gave
hope to millions of MS sufferers, but many neurologists scoffed at the idea - including Vicki's.

Vicki Robinson

He was very dismissive, just didn't feel that it had anything to do with MS, and that was the end
of the conversation.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

How did that make you feel?

Vicki Robinson

I was really angry, actually.

Dr Paul Thibault

The good news is that the flow on the right side is still very good.

Narration

So Vicki turned to Australian vein specialist Dr Paul Thibault, who says in his experience with MS
patients, Zamboni's theory has credibility.

Dr Paul Thibault

The veins have been known to be involved in Multiple Sclerosis since the disease was first
described in the nineteenth century. But this fact has really been ignored by the neurologists in
particular.

Narration

Dr Thibault encouraged Vicki to have the controversial procedure called 'venoplasty' to correct the
narrowing in her neck veins. The results were virtually instantaneous.

Vicki Robinson

The first thing that I noticed was my eyesight - amazing, just incredible. From pre-procedure in
the waiting bay, couldn't read the signs on the wall, to coming out and being placed in the same
bay and wow, there they were. Everything clear as a bell.

This is my mobility scooter that I used to have to use to go out anywhere - shopping, any of those
sorts of things, before I had the venoplasty. Happily sitting here gathering dust now.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

So your neurologist doesn't know you've had a venoplasty done?

Vicki Robinson

No, no.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

So what does he attribute this miraculous improvement to?

Vicki Robinson

Oh, some patients for some reason just do better than others, and I just happened to be one of
those, perhaps.

Narration

It has to be said that not all patients have had the same success as Vicki, and there's a fifty per
cent chance that her veins will narrow again. Dr Thibault agrees with Zamboni that MS is a vascular
condition. But he also believes that narrowed veins are caused by a chronic infection, and like
David Wheldon, his focus is on Chlamydia Pneumoniae.

Dr Paul Thibault

CPN is on my hit list because it is the bacteria that fits all the requirements. It is known to
affect the lining of blood vessels and in particular, veins. It is known to involve the nervous
system, is able to cause immune effects. So it fits all the features that we actually see in the
symptomatology of MS.

Narration

If you want epidemiological proof that MS is caused by an infection, you only have to look at the
isolated population on the Faroe Islands.

Dr Paul Thibault

Prior to World War Two, there was no instance of MS in those islands. In 1940 the islands were
occupied by British troops, and by 1945 there was a small epidemic of MS in the islands.

Narration

From this it was postulated that British troops brought MS to the island, but if infection with
Chlamydia Pneumoniae is so common, why doesn't everyone develop MS?

Dr Paul Thibault

Some other factor, like it could be low vitamin D levels, or genetic predisposition, makes them
develop the secondary or persistent form of the disease, which affects the neurological tissues and
the veins. I don't know why the neurologists aren't offering them at least Minocycline which has
been shown in a number of studies to benefit MS.

Dr Maryanne Demasi

Why, why are neurologists turning their back on this?

Dr Paul Thibault

I think the neurologists have gone down this track for many years and they would have trouble
admitting that they may have gone the wrong way. And therefore they continue on with the same line
of thought.

Narration

For a neurologist's perspective, I visited respected MS researcher Associate Professor Robert
Heard.

Assoc Prof Robert Heard

We'd love to see more data about it but ...

Narration

In a candid moment he did admit that Dr Thibault's theory was plausible.

Assoc Prof Robert Heard

In an unguarded moment, maybe after a drink or two, a couple of neurologists might say to each
other, 'You know, it just has to be an infection, doesn't it?' And in fact I've had that exact
conversation with well-known MS specialists. But we just can't put our finger on it.

Narration

But despite the anecdotal evidence, Dr Heard warns that responsible treatment is all about
evidence-based medicine.

Assoc Prof Robert Heard

If we're going to do experiments in patients, we're going to use them as guinea-pigs, we need to
have that clinical trial informed by some solid science.

Narration

But clinical trials to obtain solid science requires funding, and getting it is virtually
impossible. Why haven't the clinical trials been done?

Dr Paul Thibault

The problem is that the antibiotics used have been around for many, many years. They're all off
patent, they are inexpensive, and there is no profit in it.

Narration

So as the debate rages on, what hope is there for MS sufferers?

Dr Paul Thibault

We're looking at treating the cause of the disease, and therefore, if we can get patients early
enough, we could cure MS.

Narration

But it's this sort of statement that worries neurologists.

Assoc Prof Robert Heard

I think people have used the C-word and talked about cures for as long as MS has existed. And I
think to use the word 'cure' at this stage of our scientific understanding is highly irresponsible.

Narration

Dr Thibault has decided to put Vicki on antibiotics to see if she makes further progress. Like
Vicki, David Wheldon knows that clinical trials will take time, and it's time that MS patients
can't afford.

Dr David Wheldon

The clinical trials are not there. It's ... that has to be said, it's, um, and I wasn't going to wait
for them either, you know. I'd be a widower now if I was waiting for, for clinical trials. Sorry.

Narration

It may be too early to tell if we stand before a cure for MS, but if we do, these men will be
remembered as the pioneers.

Topics: Health

Reporter: Dr Maryanne Demasi

Producer: Dr Maryanne Demasi

Researcher: Dr Maryanne Demasi

Camera: Kevin May

Greg Heap

Sound: Stephen Ravich

Adam Toole

Editor: Andrew Glover

Graphics

Toby Goulding

TimeLapse Vision Inc

Story Contacts

Ass Prof Robert Heard

Neurologist

Gosford, NSW

David Wheldon

Microbiologist

Bedford, UK

Dr Paul Thibault

Phlebologist

Central Vein & Cosmetic Medical Centre

Broadmeadow, NSW

Related Info

Multiple Sclerosis Australia

Chlamydia Pneumoniae - more info

Westmead Millenium Institute

^ top

YOUR COMMENTS

>> Add a Comment

Stephen - 24 Aug 2012 12:00:59pm

I found the programme and information very interesting and positive. I will be discussing this with
my Specialist. I too would like to be cured and time is running out if trials are not commenced
immediately.

>> Reply

joel - 24 Aug 2012 12:00:00pm

l'm so.... glad the way this story was told,well done. THE real truth is hard to believe for people
that don't think outside the box. It Even fixed her eye sight there needs more work done in that
area!! love it thx one story i'd like you to work on is chemtrails aerosol Spraying

>> Reply

Alena Almassy - 24 Aug 2012 11:16:20am

it never ceases to amaze me to learn that the medical profession can be so arrogant and indifferent
to new ideas ... think outside the box should be the new motto for Australian specialists in
regards to the new stream of viral infections entering our shores

>> Reply

Pmarcus - 24 Aug 2012 10:53:47am

My sister has stage two MS and is now a quadrapalegic ,I wonder if there is any hope for her.

I would hope that someone will step up and prove this new therapy, even though Big Pharma won't be
able to make hundreds of millions off a new drug. Big Pharma has no interest in curing any disease
that won't make them piles of money.

So it will be up to the independents to prove this theory and hopefully make it work. My fear is
that the cure will come to late for my sister and that Big Pharma will do everything they can to
either squash it or control it either way we all lose.

>> Reply

Nick - 24 Aug 2012 10:12:17am

I'm an MS patient. Who knows the 3 anti-biotics involved? I will try anything at this point!

>> Reply

Moderator: We can't provide medical advice but suggest that you consult your treating medical
practitioner for further information and advice.

Rory - 24 Aug 2012 11:20:49am

Gday.... I saw one on the antibiotics is Metronidazole ..,l it's on of the strongest antibiotics
known I have had it 4 times and the sideffects after 2 weeks horrendous ... If you read the info on
it very very dangerous t take fr any period ( max is usually 14 days not a year!! ) Long term can
cause lesions in the brain and cancer. I have MS and I would want to see a hell of a lot more
science before doing this, is far from proof and the so called cure might prove far worse

>> Reply

Danielle - 24 Aug 2012 11:51:12am

Get all metals removed from your body, especially any type of metal fillings as I have done. Then
use chelation to remove the metals from your brain and blood. Use Chlorella and coriander to do
this. Then you will be cured like I have.

>> Reply

Moderator: The information provided on this website provides a forum for people to express and
exchange their views on our story. It's intended solely for the general information of the reader.
You should consult your treating medical practitioner for specific medical advice and treatment.

Rory - 24 Aug 2012 9:48:55am

Very interesting indeed... But on a very cautious note.. Till we know exactly what MS how can we be
sure we have a cure, it has been discussed that it is an umbrellas of several conditions with
wildly varying outcome and causes maybe. One critical feature with MS is remission this can be as
long as decades. A great deal of longitudinal study over a large study group has to take place
before a miraculous blanket cure can be proclaimed, to ensure remission is not confused with cure
or treatment. Being a person with MS myself I would love nothing better, but coming from a family
of medical research scientists I realize that proving these things consistently is not easy. You
can't "test" to see if you have MS like a virus, only look for signs of its damage or activity.
When I was diagnosed 9 yrs ago the Neurologists were certain I was headed for quadriplegia, but
things have improved in a miraculous way, seemingly spontaneously. I am uncertain what is means
only time will tell

>> Reply

Kerrie Jolly - 24 Aug 2012 9:13:50am

In his book entitled "Trace your Genes to Health" (1984), Australian Dr Chris Reading states:
"Chlamydia pneumonia titre: This bacteria is associated with pneumonia, recurrent chest infections,
pleurisy, asthma, pericarditis, cardiomyopathy, coronary artery disease, and is commonly seen also
in Multiple Sclerosis". If Dr Reading (I think he still lives in Sydney)knew this back in the
1980s, why has it not been researched and why is a doctor from England being credited for linking
the bacteria to MS? Show was great, but there are so many questions not being answered.

>> Reply

jan kurzman - 24 Aug 2012 8:50:22am

i was diagnosed with m s (refuse to put it in capital letters) in 2007. i am still high functioning
but i have noticed deteriation on my right side as in weak legs and drop foot to my right foot. i
trip over a lot and have fractured my left radius recently. i will be seeing my neurologist on 3rd
of sept. 12 to discuss my last mri results. your report will be high on my agenda and i can already
feel his response but i will pursue the treatments of thibault,wheldon and zamboni with hope and an
open mind. i think it extreme folly not to try or to wait years for proof while i deteriate more.

>> Reply

Brett johns - 24 Aug 2012 10:46:18am

I was diagnosed In 2000 &have invented a legassist for my left leg as I have drop foot &heavyness
of leg after tripping over many times dislocating shoulder . I thought my only option was
wheelchair or leg assist which kept me mobile &independent Simply it's a Bungay cord belted around
my waist Hooked to my

Left shoe. It has kept me walking &mobile . I really just want people to know there is alt to wheel
chair Hope this can be of some hope

>> Reply

Holly Bird - 24 Aug 2012 2:05:51am

I want to try this! Is the antibotics available in the US and will they release the info?

>> Reply

Moderator: Thanks for your question. As Dr Paul Thibault states in the story, the antibiotics that
are used have been around for many, many years and are all off patent.

We can't provide medical advice but suggest that you consult your treating medical practitioner for
further information and advice.

Shirley Green - 24 Aug 2012 12:18:38am

A really interesting programme. There is a desperate need for doctors to take more notice of these
successes. Why can't governments be more generous in funding research? It should be mandatory that
funds and grants are provided on an annual basis for research into conditions like MS.

>> Reply

Lois MacCullagh - 23 Aug 2012 11:50:40pm

Go Catalyst!! Well done for tackling this controversial topic. After a year-long battle with the
medical system, I'm currently recovering from Lyme disease, rather than dying slowly and painfully
from 'atypical MS'. Thank you for shedding some light on this topic!

>> Reply

Lloyd Finch - 23 Aug 2012 11:24:32pm

Drs Wheldon and Thibault may be interested in this publication.

Proal, A.D., Albert, P.J., Blaney, G.P., Lindseth, I.A., Benediktsson, C. and Marshall, T.G. (2011)
Immunostimulation in the era of the metagenome. Cellular and Molecular Immunology, 8 (3). pp.
213-225.

Link to Published Version: http://www.nature.com/cmi/journal/v8/n3/full/cmi201077a.html*

Microbes are increasingly being implicated in autoimmune disease. This calls for a re-evaluation of
how these chronic inflammatory illnesses are routinely treated. The standard of care for autoimmune
disease remains the use of medications that slow the immune response, while treatments aimed at
eradicating microbes seek the exact opposite-stimulation of the innate immune response.
Immunostimulation is complicated by a cascade of sequelae, including exacerbated inflammation,
which occurs in response to microbial death. Over the past 8 years, we have collaborated with
American and international clinical professionals to research a model-based treatment for
inflammatory disease. This intervention, designed to stimulate the innate immune response, has
required a reevaluation of disease progression and amelioration. Paramount is the inherent conflict
between palliation and microbicidal efficacy. Increased microbicidal activity was experienced as
immunopathology-a temporary worsening of symptoms. Further studies are needed, but they will
require careful planning to manage this immunopathology.

>> Reply

Greg Johnston - 23 Aug 2012 10:27:46pm

The real disease here is conventional thinking and it hasn't just infected medicine. It infects
business, education, government and almost every aspect of our society. Conventional thinking often
kills projects before there can possibly be sufficient evidence to provide wide acceptance. I
support evidence based medicine, policy, etc. but sometimes we need open minds to recognise when
that evidence should be collected.

>> Reply

Kerri - 23 Aug 2012 10:12:20pm

This story raises a vital issue of the need for transparency in research for MS. Neurologists and
researchers who direct the funding must lay bare their conflicts of interests. Research should not
be skewed to profit-making treatments as this will never derive a cure only life long customers. So
great to see a new paradigm being considered but adequate, unbiased clinical trials are imperative.

>> Reply

Lawrence Bennett - 23 Aug 2012 9:52:41pm

That's what happened to me, a neglected recurring bronchitis with the damp canals of Amsterdam,
which led to MS in 1992. Dismissed by prof. Spira as being "esoteric", when I mentioned it in 2005
at the Sydney POW.

>> Reply

Darlene Brownrigg - 23 Aug 2012 9:47:24pm

Hi i have MS i've had it since March 2008. I watched the video & was amazed as 6 months b4 i got Ms
i got a very bad flu i was down for 2 weeks with it i was also travelling at the time, i've always
believed that caused my Ms.

So i this is the cause of MS would love too no more as i too have lost so much cause of my MS thank
you. Miss D Brownrigg Australia

>> Reply

Pat O'Dwyer - 23 Aug 2012 9:42:31pm

Thank god for medicos like doctor P T who can listen think and reason

>> Reply

Glenn - 23 Aug 2012 9:34:17pm

Additional comment:

A great resource on CCSVI is www.ccsvi.org.au

>> Reply

Glenn - 23 Aug 2012 9:31:08pm

Thanks for the story on MS. I think you have raised awareness of new research. I think there needs
to be greater investigation to break open the stranglehold that neurology and pharmaceutical
companies have on MS and new research ideas.

>> Reply

fiona3012 - 23 Aug 2012 9:15:14pm

Whether it be infection by virus or bacteria, I heartily welcome this debate. In my day, it was the
Orkney Islands rather than the Faroes, with 1/11 having MS. One theory then was the residence of
American troops. (Along with other theories relating to scrapie in sheep).

Thank you for your balanced report.

Fiona Hall

(PWMS 31 years)

>> Reply

P. Southern - 23 Aug 2012 8:54:05pm

Not sure why Australia's Professor George Jelinek's research on MS using mind-body, lifestyle
protocols was not discussed in this program??

His research was published in March/April this year in the international neurological science
journal.

>> Reply

Lauren - 23 Aug 2012 8:28:21pm

This just makes so much sense!! Can anyone else see the pieces all falling into place? I was
assessed for the CCSVI and i have it but am being assessed for a HSCT which may be a more
aggressive way of killing the bacteria with the same effect!

>> Reply

Inge Danaher - 23 Aug 2012 8:27:33pm

Finally someone willing to listen and think outside the box!!

Interesting that lack of potential profits can keep us in the dark ages. Something seriously wrong
with our health system.

>> Reply

Ella Harvey - 23 Aug 2012 8:13:58pm

Thank you for having the courage to look beyond conventional thinking. I am a sufferer of Lyme
disease which I am unable to have diagnosed in Tasmania as clinical diagnosis is the way given the
nature of the bacteria. I was struck by the similarities regarding the behaviour of bacteria and
the difficulty in detecting it. Do you think there are parallels? I have got to the point where I
can no longer work. I am just hoping that there is someone like you who can help Lyme disease
sufferers.

Again, thank you for your courage and tenacity and all the best to your wife and family.

Llewella Harvey