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Australian Agenda -

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Good afternoon, welcome to PM

Agenda. I am Ashleigh Gillon, live

from Perth, where Sky News and the

Western Australia newspaper will be

hosting a Perth's People's Forum.

The Prime Minister will be here

along with 250 Perth voters, here

to ask questions about her carbon

tax. The Prime Minister has been in

Perth today, in a business

Roundtable speaking with business

executives about what they would

like to see from this Labor

Government. Tonight we will see

other issues pop-up - the ongoing

asylum seeker debate, for example.

In the last 24 hours, three boats

have arrived. I will be chatting with the shadow border protection

minister. We will also look at the

ongoing stoush between the Greens

and Labor and the Prime Minister's

address to the Labor conference on

the weekend. Also, what the

business community in Western

Australia would like to see from

Tony Abbott when it comes to

industrial relations policy. Stay

Jacinta Tynan. with us for the latest news with

Former NRL player Craig Field will

remain in custody until August

charge. after facing court on a murder

charge. A 51-year-old man has died

in hospital after he was allegedly

king hit by the former South Sydney

captain at a bar at Kingscliff last

night. 39-year-old Field and

another man were arrested. A 50-

year-old man lying on the road

unconscious. They attempted CPR and

he was taken to Tweed Heads

hospital. Unfortunately the man

died today in hospital. The two men

arrested at the scene, 39 and 41,

were both charged with assault

occasioning grievous bodily harm.

Since the victim died it has been

upgraded to murder. We are now

joined by seven net -- Seven Network

Network reporter Bianca Stone.

Craig Field and his friend have faced Tweed Heads local Court

charged with the murder of of

Kelvin Kang. It was a brief

appearance and neither appeal for

bail. It was alleged the pair was

involved in a fight outside the

Kingscliff Beach hotel last night and during the altercation Field

allegedly king hit the victim. This

afternoon his life support was

turned off. Craig Field is a well-

known rugby league player, he

played for Manly in the 1997 grand

final before finishing his NRL

career with the Wests Tigers. We

understand he now purchase a local

rugby club here. Both men are

expected back in court next month.

What did Craig Field seem to be

like? Both sat fairly

expressionless in the dock. There

were some family members in court

who were visibly upset. They

mouthed a few words to them, but

other than that they weren't

required to say much and it was

over in less than 3 minutes. Thank

you for the update.

The Prime Minister says the

Coalition's asylum seeker policy

has been exposed as a sham after the Shadow Minister questioned the

Convention. Scott Morrison says effectiveness of the UN refugee

there are many problems with the

convention because refugees are now

using it to shop around. The Coalition continues to use the

convention as justification for

offshore processing in Nauru and not Malaysia.

Today Mr Abbott's team has exposed

the sham, the pantomime that he has

been involved in in not being

prepared to work with the

Government. I think the point being

made was that it was made for a

different time. The Opposition says

the arrest of 131 Tamils by Sri

Lankan authorities is proof going

back boats is a workable policy.

Fair Work are -- investigator is

standing by his report into the

wrought in scandal. He stood by

finding is that embattled MP Craig

Thomson had provided false and

misleading information. He also

defended his decision to not refer

the HSU scandal to the police in

2009, saying it was not his role.

A Victorian judge has granted an interim order prohibiting striking

orders -- striking workers from

blocking delivery trucks at a warehouse in Melbourne's North.

This decision will not end the

picket line, but it is a 48-hour injunction that. Those protesting

workers from the National union of

workers and preventing Coles trucks

from gaining access and leaving the

distribution centre operated in

Melbourne's North. This began on

Tuesday when the workers walked out

at 6 AM. They walked out because

they wanted the same pay and

conditions as workers at a that is

tradition centres for Coles. This

is the only one outsourced to a

third party, Toll. The Supreme

Court judge this afternoon said she

was concerned about it and she

wanted to make sure the third-party people, including Coles and their

customers, would not be affected by

this ongoing strike action. It is

not an end to the picket line.

There was action at Fair Work

Australia on Friday, where Toll

decided to bring it to the Supreme

Court. Today there was no sign of

the union members, the 26 defendants, including the National

union of workers as well as the

State secretary. They did not show

up, saying it was a fait accompli

and that the court would side with

the business community. The big

question now is whether or not the

unions will abide by the decision

and whether or not they will allow

the trucks to go and leave the

distribution centre at Somerton.

Kristi Abrahams, the one -- the

woman accused of murdering or

daughter, cohesion, has been

committed to stand trial. The

magistrate urged the community to

allow the judicial process to take its course.

Dressed in Asia's favourite colour,

and holding signs with her smiling

image, supporters of the murdered

six he rolled they call Mount

Druitt's princess. It has left a

legacy behind and we will follow

through in every court proceeding

every day that she is needed, we

are the voice for Kylie -- Kiesha

Abrahams. Inside, the woman accused

of her murder. Kristi Abrahams, and

in front of a gallery that included

her father, she watched on as she

was committed to stand trial for

murder. The magistrate describing

an understandable public outrage,

that someone could allegedly murder

their own child. Yeah, and she

couldn't even look at anybody in

that court. It was very hard to sit

there and not say at -- say

anything, not to lunge at her, but

now we are getting justice and pay

Kiesha Abrahams will be set free.

Kiesha Abrahams will be set free.

It is nearly 2 years since her

death, and her mother reported her

missing. What followed was a

lengthy and public search

culminating in the discovery of

human remains before charges were

laid against Ms Abrahams and her

partner, Robert Smith. He has since pled guilty to manslaughter and accessory after the fact. Ms

Abrahams' trial will

September. Abrahams' trial will begin in

A 49-year-old man charged over the

attempted abduction of? Sydney

girls has been denied bail. The man

was arrested at Castle Hill last

night and charged with a number of

offences. The first involved a six-

year-old girl at South Turramurra

in February. The second, a 14-year-

old girl at Westleigh in April.

There's no doubt these crimes are

very, very serious. We had an

unknown person attacking children

on the street. It is extremely

concerning to police, is extremely

concerning to any parent. It

strikes at the heart and there of

every parent in the committee. The police prosecutor told Parramatta

Court they had identified the and eight that had matched the

eight that had matched the accused's profile. They also

alleged a vehicle similar to his

was seen driving up and down the

street the one abduction attempt

took place. The man will appear in court in September.

, at Perth barrister Lloyd Rayney

has pleaded not guilty to the

wilful murder of his estranged wife.

At his trial begins in a packed

courtroom. Corryn Rayney

disappeared after a day of class in

August 2007. Her body later was

found dead -- buried in Kings Park.

Mr Rayney denies involvement in her

death. The trial is set to run for

two months, down from the

previously planned five months.

There are reports of the fiercest

fighting yet seen in Damascus as

the Red Cross says Syria is in a

state of civil war. Activists claim

that pro-Assad supporters are

battling in the south of the

capital and many residents are

trying to flee the area.

The latest video footage from Syria

appears to illustrate how this

conflict is spreading. From rebel

skirmishes... To organise protests. And what

And what began as a peaceful

uprising has descended into the

conflict where the lines are

blurred between those fighting the

Government and those targeting

specific religious groups.

(GUNFIRE) A messy sectarian crisis,

which latest reports suggest it is

spreading even to Damascus in what

the Red Cross is now calling a

civil war. In this town last week,

these were the victims of a

massacre caused by heavy artillery, something denied by Syrian

authorities. TRANSLATION: What

happened was not a massacre. It was

a military operation. Ushers

between a regular army his

constitutional duty is to defend

civilians. -- clashes between.

The main conflict remains between

President Assad's Government and

the Free Syrian Army. If there are

now established rules of war,

whether anything -- whether it

anyone will follow them is another matter.

Chris Judd has been referred

straight to the AFL Tribunal following his chicken wing tackle Onley and Anthony. The kangaroos

midfielder was cleared of any

injury -- serious injury despite

hurting his shoulder at after Chris

Judd pulled out his arm on Friday.

Meantime, the Kangaroos have their

own problems after the match, with

the vice captain hit with a three

match game -- three match ban for rough conduct.

A look at the weather forecast:

Back now to Ashleigh Gillon, as PM Agenda continues.

After the break we will have more

on the asylum seeker policy debate,

with the shadow border protection

minister, Mr Keenan.

Welcome back. It is shaping up to

be a big night in Perth where the West Australian people's forums

will be getting underway at six

o'clock Western time. The Prime

Minister will be joining me here

lies and taking questions from a

crowd of voters. The theme is the

carbon tax. We are expecting the

thorny issue of asylum seekers or

so being one of the questions

brought up tonight. Today, Gillard

was impressed and held a news

conference and used it to slam the

Opposition is asylum seeker policy.

She accused them of hypocrisy after

Scott Morrison said he believed the

refugee Convention no longer

reflect the practical reality. This

is what Gillard had to say in

response. It as an excuse to not

working with the government. They

have been pointing to the refugee

Convention. Today, on the front

pages of our newspapers, with the

had immigration spokesperson saying

that the convention isn't even

relevant to the modern age. Today,

Mr Abbott's team has exposed the

sham and pantomime that he has been

invited in by not being -- involved

in by not been prepared to work

with the government. Quite joining

me now is the Shadow Minister --

Shadow Minister Michael Keenan. If

it is no longer relevant, why other

using that as a reason for by the

government shouldn't send asylum

seekers to Malaysia? We haven't

said it isn't relevant. It provides

important protection of people

seeking asylum from the and

government. The point about Scott

made is that it was framed in the

aftermath of World War II when we were dealing with enormous

populations of refugees and clearly

the refugee problem has changed

significantly since then. It makes

sense we look at the refugee

Convention and see if it can be

updated for modern circumstances

are different from those in which

it was framed. What would you like

to see included in that convention

to make it reflect practical

realities? In the past, if people

were sitting protection from their

own government, the likely scenario

would be that a move to a

neighbouring country. Now we see

people travel around the world to specifically get to Australia.

Clearly when the refugee Convention

was framed after World War II did

not envisage this kind of

circumstances. That is why we have

been calling the sometime, it is

not new, but the refugee Convention

needs to be modernised to reflect

the current situation of the

current circumstances that refugees

find themselves in. Again, if it is

so flawed, why has the convention

been repeatedly held up as the gold

standard when it comes to the needs

and rights of refugees? We're not

saying it is not relevant, it is important protection to people

seeking protection from persecution

within their own government, but it

is a very important Convention it

doesn't mean it is perfect and that

we couldn't modernise it to better

reflect the situation the world is

on at the moment. A lot of people

say that your policy isn't perfect

either, especially when it comes to

turning around the boat angle of

the policy. Just one part of the

policy, as was reached using

protection visas and sending asylum

seekers to Nauru. Navy personnel do

not like it. When will the

Coalition consider dumping that is

your policy? We will not be dumping

it. It is a very important aspect

to stop people smuggling. I never

should link an army recently

changed the boat back to

Shillington. They are endorsing

that is an important plank to deter

people from taking a dangerous

turning. We will not be dropping

that policy, it is a policy we have

used in the past effectively to

stop people smuggling. It is

important to keep our policy is

moving forward will stop To clarify,

the Navy do not think to say. Tony

Abbott has said that votes would

only be turned around if they are

deemed safe. Can I clarify that

that is a call that will be made by

the Navy? That is right. We would

not envisage doing anything that

would endanger the lives of anyone

seeking asylum in Australia. The

Navy has done it before. They are

professional can let you to do it.

They have shown they can do it very

well and return those boats back to

Indonesia. They did do it safely.

Really, they have the capability to

continue to do that again. Also,

the most unsafe thing that is

happening the people seeking asylum

at the moment is that we have

brought down over 20,000 people --

the people smugglers have brought

down 20,000 people on leaky boat.

We do need to do something

different. Turning the boats back

around would be an important part

of that. The meeting tomorrow to

discuss the policy and come up with

a way that we can get over this

deadlock as we saw in parliament at

the last sitting, why not have the Coalition representative at least

at the table? Because we have a

policy. We don't need a committee...

That isn't a compromise at all.

We're not wanting a condom. People

want to see a solution. We don't

need another failed policy. We have

had so many failed policies since

Labor came to office. Your way or

the highway? When the Labor came to

power, they change the policy. The

most effective starting point would

be to return to when those policies

were changed. In 2008. One month

later but the people smugglers went

back into business. We need to

return to a time when we had a

border protection system... You're

not in government at the moment.

Even if you due at the next

election, that is 12 to 18 months

away. Is there some kind of

compromise is to come up with a

stop people getting votes in the

meantime? We are seeking a solution,

not another failed policy. We know

what the solution is. If the

government will not return to it,

do not see why the Opposition

should be involved in legitimising

another failed effort from this

government. We know what we need to

do. We should stop all of this

nonsense discussion when all is that a smokescreen. Finally, why

don't we know what the Coalition's

industrial relations policy is the

next election? It'd be unusual for

an Opposition to release such a

comprehensive... Not when it is

such a contentious issue. And when

many people say the main reason you

lost the 2007 election with a few

other reasons, is that when it is a

controversial issue, why not take

the air out of the issue by letting

people know what you want to. We

are still developing our policy and

in conjunction with some of the

reviews the government is doing

with that their work act. The idea

that the Opposition would introduce

a conference of policy that far out

on the election is ridiculous.

You're right about the

controversial they work policy. The

Labor Party only released their

policy driven half months before

the election there. It is complete

nonsense. The idea of industrial

relations, it Gillard is by

Minister is a drowning person.

Desperate to find a life raft. To

revisit those battles from for five

years ago is about showing how

desperate she is. We know that WorkChoices is political poison.

Any aspect of those laws that

Western Australian businesses would

like reached used? It is a debate

concluded five years ago. There is

no point in us revisiting those

policies. No aspect of WorkChoices

you think the Coalition should

bring back? Backlit we want a

commonsense policy. We want one

based on the problems people are

bringing to us about how the fair

work act is giving us. I don't

think anyone let us they wouldn't

say it is a perfect policy. How

would you like to see it treats?

Are policy has been developed. It

is not up to us to announce it here.

You are at the engine of the

country's economy, it must be a

common problem is that you can

share with our viewers. I am

hearing a lot of concern. You can

see it in the consists --

statistics. Clearly, the fairway to

act has problems. The government

themselves know it has problems and

the and Minister has been

highlighting some of them. We can

do better. We are not going to be

approaching it in an ideological

way, we will come out at in a

commonsense way. You can't nominate

a particular area week and there

definitely needs to be changed? No,

our policy will be released close

to the election. I'm not in a

position to and after tee. It'll be

sensible and it will address the

issues raised to us. It will work

better for employers, workers and

the fair work act, I knew to a

commission from both sides of the

debate, it is not perfect. I think

we can make it work better by

having a look at practical

solutions. Thank you to joining us,

Michael Keenan. We will have more

on the thorny issue after the break.

That Franklin will be with me next.

Welcome back. Shane Wright and Matt

Franklin will join me shortly. We

have got the latest poll figures

out today. There has not been much

movement for almost a month. The

Coalition is steady at 49, Labor at

31. The Greens are down one point

two 10. A slight shift in the two-

party preferred around the margin,

so the Coalition is down 57-43

ahead. When it comes to both of the

leaders, it appears voters are

uninspired by both of them. The

disapproval ratings are much higher

for both. For the Prime Minister,

her position has deteriorated

slightly to a negative net 26,

disapproval up to 58, 32% steady

with her approval rating. In

with her approval rating. In contrast, Tony Abbott's position

has slightly increased, on the back

of a slight increase in approval up

to 35. In terms of approval rating,

it is still very low. You have

broken down which sectors, which

demographics like which leader.

Male voters prefer Tony Abbott,

female voters prefer Julia Gillard.

Is that significant when it comes

to the gender breakdown that the

leaders need to worry about? Traditionally the Prime Minister

has approval ratings slightly

higher with women voters, but we're

picking up that that is starting to

subside. She is ahead 37-35 and men still prefer Tony subside. She is ahead 37-35 and men

still prefer Tony Abbott. On that,

the better Prime Minister rating is

still line ball. Finally, we have

seen a lot of analysis about the

Greens and their relationship with

Labor. You found that a lot of

Australians think the Greens have

extreme policies? That's right. We

asked a couple of questions about the Greens. Firstly we asked

whether people thought the Greens

were doing a good or bad job in

Parliament. 70% is significantly

more than the primary vote, so the

Greens would say that is a good

result, whereas the other parties

would say they are out of touch

with the mainstream, and this is

backed up with the finding - do you

think the Greens are too extreme?

Notably amongst the group, 20 to 7%

of Labor voters disagree and say

that they do represent the views of

many voters. -- amongst the group,

27% of Labor voters disagree. many voters. -- amongst the group, 27% of Labor voters disagree.

Thanks for your time.

To our panel of journalists now,

with Matt Franklin from the

Australia newspaper and Shane

Wright from 'The West Australian'

newspaper. The reason we are here

in this big room, we are having a

People's Forum cohosted by Sky News

and 'The West Australian' newspaper.

It will be kicking off later, 8 PM

eastern time. We know the focus

will be on the carbon tax and a few

other issues will come up as well.

What's the one thing you would like

to hear the PM back explained to us

tonight? I think the argument over

whether she lied, all the rest, it

doesn't matter, because I don't

think she can overcome the whole

issue. Tony Abbott has been far too

persuasive in arguing about the

point. It might be time to let go

and say, look, these are the two

policies. You are looking at the

policy objectives. Which one works?

Why won't -- why will direct action

fail? Why is going down the carbon

price the best way to tackle the

problem that both sides have agreed

on - they want to decrease carbon

emissions by 5% 2020. I think

that's the message they could get

onto. In terms of the two policies,

they are piles apart, and ever

since Greg Hunt put together his

grip -- his figleaf for Tony Abbott

two years ago, it has died off the

agenda. That is the alternative

policy. She has got to sell her

policy. This is why it is better,

and you can easily do that by

having a look at direct action as

well. Matt Franklin, you get to put

questions to the Prime Minister on

a regular basis. Is there one you

would like the voters to put to her

tonight? I country go past the

question that Shane raised, because

in a political sense that is what

Labor needs to do. -- I can't

really go past. I think there is a

view in the public about the

circumstances surrounding it - they

must press ahead and explain why

what they are doing is ultimately

the best thing to do. The next best

question would be, I think the

Prime Minister needs to better

explain the circumstances of her

pre-election promise that there

wouldn't be a carbon tax. I know

that sounds odd since I just said I

thought it was a settled debate,

but I think the Prime Minister can

improve the standing with voters is

he makes a greater effort to try to

explain herself. I think that plugs

into the issue that has been around

this week, or last week, at the

Labor Party conference, about the

relationship with the Greens and

the fact that I don't think many

Australians still have their head

around the nature of minority Government. As Christine Milne said

recently in an interview I did with

her, she doesn't think the other

leaders have their head around it.

Julia Gillard is in a power-sharing

arrangement with the Greens, but

constantly speaks as if she is running the Government in majority

control. With those things together,

a lot of people who attend the

forum tonight would probably like

to get it better explained to them

it's a click of the Government

works and who is running it. --

exactly how the Government work.

You just don't know what's going to

come up tonight. That's right. We

have 200-250 people. They are far

brighter than you or I. They will

come at it in a completely

different way. If you have seen all

the papers, the media in general,

they take a particular view, but

punters come up with how it really

affects them, and that's where the

fun and games come in these

community forums. Once you go back

to the way the Prime Minister has handled these, since the 2010

election campaign, she had a rocky

start in western Sydney, she has

gradually improved. I think she

believes her persona gets across

much better. -- through the

engagement that goes on. I think

she will turn up early to touch

base with the people to try to

spread the message of Gillard, I'm

here to stay, whether it gets

beyond that is 250 people is

another story. It affects the mood

of the room when you get up and

mingle before it gets underway.

That is coming up in a couple of

hours. Let's look at some other

issues today. I will be counting

tonight how many times Julia

Gillard mentions the word

WorkChoices. We have seen her focus on the Coalition's IR policy, or

the lack of policy in the last

couple of days. It will be some of

-- one of the single biggest issues

for the forthcoming election

campaign. The Leader of the

Opposition, Tony Abbott, last week

in a speech in Sydney made it

absolutely clear that they are

after cutting penalty rates, they

are after cutting the kinds of benefits that working people rely

on to make ends meet. They got

formed in the past, they cut

penalty rates over time, leave

loading, public holiday pay, and

it's clear that their vision of workplace relations for the future.

Two the Prime Minister's strategy

is utterly transparent and it's

totally cynical, and that is that

rather than talking about the

carbon tax or the failed border

protection policies or her foes

stoush with the Greens, she has

created a new weapon of mass

destruction, which is to talk about

workplace relations.

I clearly remember the last two

days of the 2010 election campaign,

you couldn't interview a Labor

minister without them bringing up

WorkChoices. It was a sense of

desperation that set in for Labor,

and that's all they would talk

about the last couple of days of

campaigning. Is that what we are

seeing here? I think WorkChoices is

like a security blanket for

troubled Labor at ministers. They

will use it to their advantage

again. I think they will sing that

song until the cows come home. I

don't blame them, I think it works,

but I think, really, he suggested

the Prime Minister made yesterday

to put I are is one of the top

issues of the election campaign was

a bit of a rerun for me. -- to put

I -- IR. Julia Gillard and Labor

know that they must go back to

their roots, they have to

consolidate the union movement has

their support base and they had to

try to reach out from their working

people to build the base, and

that's all they can do at the

moment. They would hope, once they

do that, once they get up to 30-33%,

they can start working on other

issues. This is a 'says the

senator' type of approach. -- save

the furniture type of approach.

People will be cynical. You heard

the try to ask Michael Keenan about

this earlier. Trying and failing.

He would only say that IR policy is

under construction. The Liberal

Party has left a vacuum, and this

is what has happened to Labor with

the carbon pricing. Labor can

bounce in, so you can fill the void

from the Opposition. The problem is,

Tony Abbott has said, I don't know

how many times this year, I want an

election now, we have to get rid of

the destructive Government. All the

rest. Mr Keenan said again, we are

still working on the policy. You

can't have those two policies at

the same time. That is absolutely

right, this is a safety furniture

approach, but there is one little

flaw inside the Liberal Party,

because they haven't filled it out

and they don't want to flip out

because of what happened in 2007

and 2010, it's a problem. That's

why the ALP will continue to go

back until there is a policy. Once

there is a policy that will go in

again. The carbon price to the IR

policy, the both sides. It would be

smarter just to get it out there,

clear up the vacuum. But you can't

put a signature on a piece of paper

and say' dead, buried, cremated,'

or whatever it is. I want to raise

the issue of the fraught

relationship between Labor and the

Greens. On the weekend the Prime

Minister address the Labor

conference and has been criticised

for not hitting the issue head on.

We have seen a lot of commentary in

the lead up about this relationship.

Julia Gillard pretty much ignored

it. She was asked about that today.

The speech I gave yesterday was

about Labor's values and Labor's

vision for this nation's future. A

vision about more jobs, better jobs,

including the jobs we are getting

through our clean energy future. We

heard from that earlier about just

how problematic this relationship

is becoming. Should the Prime

Minister have weighed into this

yesterday? I don't think the case

has been made. You are speaking at

the Labor conference, "We had

better bring up another party..."

The interesting thing here is the

tension between the Coalition

bedfellows, it is being played out

between the Lib Dems and the Tories

in Britain. There is talk from the

Tories that has bubbled through in

the last couple of days, "We never

want to go through a Coalition

Government again." You come back to

the point, without the Coalition

arrangement, there is no Julia

Gillard as Prime Minister, we are

back at the polls. I can understand

why she didn't go down that path,

but she will have to find a way to

clearly differentiate themselves

and bring back some of the base

that has clearly gone to the green.

How widespread to do think the

feeling is in Labor that it was a

mistake, the way Julia Gillard

handled the relationship with the

Greens at the beginning when she was forming the minority

Government? We remember Adam Bandt

saying the morning after the

election that there is pretty much

no way he would have sided with

Tony Abbott and the Coalition. It

is hindsight, but was it a mistake?

Yes, it was. It was a mistake to go

into an arrangement. As Chen said,

someone had to govern. There were

mistakes along the way - the love

in conference, where I think they

were all wearing wattle. You had

the Prime Minister, Wayne Swan and

the Greens looking happy. I spoke

to a minister yesterday who said

that when he saw that, he was

shouting at the television. Then we

saw the Prime Minister giving a

press conference in the courtyard,

standing next to Bob Brown. That

didn't go down well either. I think

she has failed to get the right

feeling about the mechanics of this

relationship and she has -- and

that has fed into the community,

among some people anyway, that the

Greens have undue influence, and

the reason it has come up in the

last week is not just that it is

being driven by the NSW Right. I

have been making further calls to

day, and I can't get over the anger on the Labor backbench and

frontbench about the fact that the

Parliament was unable to get a

resolution to the asylum seeker

debate in the last week of

Parliament, and what they really

hate is the fact that the Greens,

while refusing to give ground on

the issue of offshore processing, criticising

criticising Labor of because they

favour offshore processing, being

somehow unprincipled. That has

really stuck in the core of a lot

of Labor MPs, and I think that's

why this issue has blown up bigger

than Sam Dastyari thought it would

when it was raised. Speaking of

anger at at the NSW Labor

conference, I want to play this

grab of Tony Burke speaking about

John Faulkner. I think I first

heard John Faulkner's speech in

1989. It's a very good speech,

because it always tells us that the

NSW branch of the Labor Party is

very bad and John Faulkner is very good.

I will support any method of

electing the leader that doesn't

involve John Faulkner choosing the

leader. The last time his vote was

a decisive one, we got Mark Latham.

I don't think it's the ideal model.

Tony Burke is not known to be the

most controversial MP, but there it

is. That is a bit harsh. 40 of them

voted for Mark Latham, not just

John Faulkner. In the media there

is sympathy to John Faulkner

because he is the elder statesman.

Tony Burke, fair game, I'm on. I

loved that. I love NSW state

conferences, and I watched them

every time. I was speaking to a

minister yesterday, he said it was

like a school reunion. You come

back every year and you hang out

with the people whom you have known

since Year 12, you have the same

argument and you usually leave as

friends. I think Labor has to have

arguments like that and I think

politics can do with more debate

like that. I love the theatre, and

just like in going to enjoy the

theatre on the People's Forum

tonight, I hope people get stuck

into it. At least get a good debate

on real issues without the spin.

Matt Franklin, Shane Wright, plenty

of theatre coming tonight from the

Perth's People's Forum. I appreciate your views today. After

the break, the WA business immunity,

what they would like to see when it

comes to the Coalition's IR policy.

Welcome back. This afternoon

Gillard met with business

executives at a business Roundtable.

Now we will look at what the

business community here in Western

Australia would like to see in

terms of changes to industrial

relations policy and the carbon tax

and mining tax. Joining me now,

John Nicolau. Duty Free a time. If

you were here tonight and one of

the voters that is going to ask the

Prime Minister at question on the

the carbon tax, what would you like

an explanation about? From a

business perspective, it is more

around small business and how the

carbon tax will impact small

business and how small business in

times of rising costs across the

board, how are they going to

accommodate increased costs into

their business at the time they can

least afford it. Quite we have seen

the government -- We have seen the

government put a foot wrong in a

few instances. They sent out a few

messages to their store owners

saying to put up the prices because

of the carbon taxes and the

government was harsh about that.

Visitors can put up their prices if

there is a direct flow on, can't

they? Yes, there's a flow on effect

will only be discovered and the

time. Visitors will have to absorb

the price increases. Particularly

for small businesses that that have

the market power to raise their

prices are in times when markets

are so tight and competitive

pressures are so tight. What about

the mining tax? Into one of the

experts are saying we are unlikely

to get the revenue the government

says we should in the first years?

It is unclear. The great unknown.

The mining tax applies to a very

small segment of the mining sector

community. Two major commodities.

All it does is muddy the waters and

great confusion, complexity and

inefficiencies in the system when

we are trying to do exactly the

opposite. We don't want at this

point in time, or in Australia

destination of choice, in terms of

mining sector best, we don't want

to damage a reputation in any way

to the imposition of another tax.

And it is a highly complex and

opaque tax. There are two taxes

that Tony Abbott says he will

repeal if he becomes Prime Minister,

what should he do on industrial

relations front? We need serious

debate. That is probably what the

business community wants out of

this. A mature debate we go to the

problems observed over the last few

years to impacting on business and driving inefficiencies. They are holding back productivity growth in

an economy which is in desperate

need to fuel its productivity in an

increasing environment. WorkChoices,

they promised they will not bring

it back. Other aspects of those

laws that the business community

will be pushing for again?

Ultimately, the business community

wants is for it to be easier to do business. They want overall

flexibility and some of the changes

being made in the new laws have made it more difficult businesses

to adapt to modern environment.

This is because of the need for the

government to impose on businesses

artificial rules and artificial parties coming in and disrupting

what was once a very harmonious

relationship between employer and

employee. You have just released

the latest other to the economy here in Western Australia. There

has been a lot of starting in the

state -- chatting in a state about

what will happen if China falls

over and what it would mean for it

Western Australia will stop your

outlook suggests that even if it is

the worst-case scenario, that

Western Australia and the rest of

Australia would come out strongly.

We are expecting 7% per annum

growth over the next few years. It

is an extraordinary rate by

developed economy like Western

Australia. The basis of that is

that massive pipeline of investment

that exists in a state today. It

essentially provides a Bufo in the

event of an extreme economic event

such as the European debt crisis. -

- Provides a buffer. Our forecast

have some risk attached to them. We

believe that if there was a

significant event like the global

financial crisis that we saw a few

years ago, it would shave off 2%

off of that growth forecasts, but

still over 5%, that is growth in

the economy that is promoting jobs

and creating new opportunities for

all within the society. When you

talk about the investment pipeline,

in the worst-case scenario, are you

saying it is not something that

switches off? This project to a

happening and are underway and are

not likely to follow threat even in

the worst-case scenario? That is

right. A massive amount of activity

already underway that'll need to be completed. Our basic projections,

with the must have work that can

typically be done in a state versus

the work already started, there is

about two years worth of work based

on current capacity within the

construction sector. The pipeline

is significant. It is not even

counting some of the major project

that are on the horizon. When it

comes to who does that work, it has been a politically sensitive debate.

Did you support the push to allow

people to bring in foreign workers?

What is the benefit their besides

having someone ready to go now? Is

at a much cheaper? It is not

necessarily cheaper. The problem is

that Labor shortages are the

biggest single issue facing the

state. It is the biggest single

barrier that is holding us back

from reaching a potential. When you

see the unemployment rate at 3.5%,

it is going in the other direction

and what is happening in other

parts of the country. Get an

insight into the tightness of the

labour market and the need to top

it up through migration. The state

has been a state that is built its

work force on migration. Each year

50% or more of the population comes

from overseas. We want to continue

that going forward or stop it is an

important source of people for a

state road race strongly. We

appreciate your time on PM Agenda.

Thank you. Tuesday whether threat

the evening. We will be back with

the People's Forum live from Perth at 6 PM Western

at 6 PM Western time and 8 PM Eastern Time. The Prime Minister

and 250 voters will be here about.

Tuesday whether. Thank you for your company today.

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